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| 01:30.50 | r0bby | mrs_spearce |
| 01:30.56 | r0bby | hai :) |
| 01:31.12 | mrs_spearce | hi how are you r0bby? |
| 01:31.21 | r0bby | good |
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| 01:33.24 | mrs_spearce | that's good |
| 01:34.07 | r0bby | appetite been shit, dealing w/ a break up :/ |
| 01:34.30 | r0bby | other than that been great |
| 01:36.49 | mrs_spearce | sorry to hear that |
| 01:42.40 | r0bby | shrug |
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| 06:23.32 | ajuonline | good morning.. |
| 06:24.13 | Landon | morning |
| 06:25.45 | ajuonline | hey Landon |
| 06:25.48 | ajuonline | how are you doing? |
| 06:31.04 | Landon | purty gud |
| 06:31.05 | Landon | :) |
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| 07:01.10 | straydawg | lo |
| 07:04.23 | ajuonline | ol |
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| 11:33.11 | thebolt | hi all |
| 11:37.17 | ajuonline | hi |
| 11:37.19 | ajuonline | sup |
| 11:43.20 | straydawg | lo |
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| 12:17.59 | kblin | hi folks |
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| 12:25.50 | ajuonline | ^5's kblin |
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| 12:31.38 | kblin | hey ajuonline :) |
| 12:32.34 | thebolt | hi kblin |
| 12:32.48 | thebolt | et al ;) |
| 12:34.40 | kblin | :) |
| 12:36.21 | thebolt | man, i reallyhope this messing with git is worth it.. |
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| 12:36.56 | sid0 | thebolt: use hg :P |
| 12:37.39 | thebolt | sid0: nah.. no svn integration.. and our project is definitely not ready to move to anything else yet |
| 12:38.31 | kblin | likes git |
| 12:38.38 | kblin | even if the developers are weird |
| 12:38.44 | kblin | points at SRabbelier |
| 12:39.00 | kblin | he'd be much less weird with a hat, of course :) |
| 12:39.02 | ajuonline | lol |
| 12:39.18 | sid0 | sigh, another clobber build |
| 12:43.17 | MatthewWilkes | kblin: Is it petty to be anti-git because the svn bindings are a separate command? |
| 12:43.59 | kblin | hm? |
| 12:44.06 | kblin | all git operations are separate commands |
| 12:44.30 | kblin | pre-1.6.0 versions install a gazillion commands in your bindir |
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| 12:45.23 | thebolt | well, in git git-svn uses a different programming language than most of Git itself.. but still.. |
| 12:45.33 | thebolt | too bad its perl, too bad it was git-svn i just had to fix and that i hate perl :P |
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| 17:47.16 | SRabbelier | solydzajs: since when are you +o on #gsoc? :P |
| 17:47.50 | solydzajs | SRabbelier: since 1 year ? |
| 17:47.58 | SRabbelier | solydzajs: oh, I never noticed :D |
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| 17:48.52 | r0bby | hey :) |
| 17:48.55 | SRabbelier | MatthewWilkes: I have had no problem with git's svn integration while working on Melange :) |
| 17:49.11 | r0bby | needs to get some work done on melange |
| 17:49.16 | SRabbelier | r0bby: indeed |
| 17:49.18 | solydzajs | SRabbelier: yes you had :-) broken commits :P |
| 17:49.28 | SRabbelier | solydzajs: nah, that was just my own fault :) |
| 17:49.37 | solydzajs | SRabbelier: cause of git svn :P :D |
| 17:49.38 | r0bby | breaks SRabbelier's legs :P |
| 17:49.38 | MatthewWilkes | SRabbelier: I'm not saying it isn't technically capable, I don't like the philosophy. I like bzr, but it's not good enough for me yet |
| 17:49.39 | r0bby | bad! |
| 17:49.44 | r0bby | breaking commits is baD! |
| 17:49.45 | r0bby | :p |
| 17:49.51 | r0bby | just kiddin :) |
| 17:49.51 | SRabbelier | r0bby: hehe, it doesn't :P |
| 17:49.57 | solydzajs | MatthewWilkes: I'm testing hg right now |
| 17:50.02 | SRabbelier | solydzajs: don't spread fud! :P |
| 17:50.04 | SRabbelier | anyway, time for food! |
| 17:50.09 | r0bby | food? |
| 17:50.10 | SRabbelier | away dinner |
| 17:50.12 | r0bby | what's food? |
| 17:50.12 | SRabbelier | yes! |
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| 17:55.04 | MatthewWilkes | solydzajs: I haven't used mercurial, can't really comment |
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| 19:37.34 | summatusmentis | hi all |
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| 19:44.10 | thiagoss | hello everbody, could someone point me to a good and working pgp keyserver? I need to submit my keys :) |
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| 19:57.56 | summatusmentis | thiagoss: umm... I think there's one at pgp.mit.edu |
| 19:57.59 | summatusmentis | or something similar |
| 20:02.20 | thiagoss | summatusmentis: it didn't work for me |
| 20:04.58 | summatusmentis | thiagoss: I might be wrong, sorry |
| 20:05.12 | thiagoss | np :) |
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| 22:05.56 | Liquidity_C | Hello |
| 22:06.12 | Catfish_Man | hi liquidity_c |
| 22:07.13 | summatusmentis | hi |
| 22:07.18 | Liquidity_C | so... |
| 22:07.35 | Liquidity_C | anyone here working on something during the -08 summer? |
| 22:07.55 | summatusmentis | I'm sure some of the people here will be |
| 22:08.12 | summatusmentis | wait upcoming summer is '09 |
| 22:08.17 | Liquidity_C | yes |
| 22:08.22 | summatusmentis | was a GSoC student last summer |
| 22:08.38 | Liquidity_C | ah... |
| 22:08.40 | Liquidity_C | neat |
| 22:08.51 | Liquidity_C | what did you do summatusmentis? |
| 22:08.56 | summatusmentis | I enjoyed it. |
| 22:09.16 | summatusmentis | http://code.google.com/soc/2008/openafs/appinfo.html?csaid=D655FA3DF27EE2BB |
| 22:09.39 | Catfish_Man | was a mentor/admin last summer |
| 22:09.41 | Liquidity_C | good, that was my first concern, heh |
| 22:10.07 | Liquidity_C | sweet, well I was thinking of trying to get a foot in for upcoming summer |
| 22:10.14 | summatusmentis | do it |
| 22:11.31 | Liquidity_C | I should be able to handle it by then, only got one term left before graduating then |
| 22:12.06 | summatusmentis | oh wow, substantially more experienced than me |
| 22:12.07 | mhutch | Liquidity_C: if you pick a project that's been in SoC before and start contributing/interacting already, then you'll be a known quantity when they're selecting students |
| 22:12.11 | Liquidity_C | so Catfish_Man what was your project? one or many? |
| 22:12.30 | Catfish_Man | liquidity_c: Adium, and I also helped mentor one for Jive Software under the XSF umbrella |
| 22:12.41 | Liquidity_C | that is the next step, have a lot of reading to do first though |
| 22:13.06 | Liquidity_C | sorry to say C# and C++ are not my primary languages |
| 22:13.24 | Ivanovic | !orgsbylang |
| 22:13.25 | socinfo | Error: "orgsbylang" is not a valid command. |
| 22:13.29 | Catfish_Man | C# isn't a real common language in OSS... which ones use it? |
| 22:13.42 | Ivanovic | the most common lang is c++ |
| 22:13.49 | Ivanovic | beside this several use C |
| 22:13.50 | Liquidity_C | I can imagine |
| 22:13.50 | mhutch | Catfish_Man: we do |
| 22:13.57 | Catfish_Man | ah k |
| 22:14.01 | Ivanovic | plus some java and various other langs |
| 22:14.09 | Liquidity_C | by C# I actually ment C, sorry bout that |
| 22:14.58 | Liquidity_C | Java is what I know best ATM, also pretty nifty with python and perl, but not great |
| 22:15.18 | Ivanovic | you do learn a lot when working on a project |
| 22:15.47 | Ivanovic | yes, even if you barely know a lang you can basically learn it while helping some open source project |
| 22:16.04 | mhutch | Liquidity_C: C# isn't that different to Java :-) |
| 22:16.33 | Ivanovic | (and c# is basically not used in open source at all) |
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| 22:16.56 | mhutch | Ivanovic: false |
| 22:17.12 | Ivanovic | mhutch: which bigger projects use it? |
| 22:17.21 | mhutch | Mono :) |
| 22:17.39 | Ivanovic | uhm, that is the, uhm, interpreter for it, right? |
| 22:17.49 | Ivanovic | i mean: what else is there centric on c#? |
| 22:17.56 | mhutch | plus a ton of related projects |
| 22:18.04 | mhutch | and there's a fair bit of OSS on windows |
| 22:18.12 | mhutch | consider paint.net |
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| 22:18.30 | mhutch | f-spot, banshee, tomboy, gnome do |
| 22:18.38 | mhutch | those are all gnome apps |
| 22:18.49 | Ivanovic | is a kde user |
| 22:18.57 | Ivanovic | ^^ |
| 22:19.26 | mhutch | I guess you haven't heard of qyoto |
| 22:19.32 | Liquidity_C | so... one more question... there was some pay right? |
| 22:19.37 | thiago_home | has heard of Qyoto |
| 22:19.38 | Ivanovic | nope, i have not |
| 22:19.41 | thiago_home | but I haven't heard of anyone using it |
| 22:19.54 | thiago_home | Qyoto and Kimono are the Qt and KDE C# bindings |
| 22:19.56 | summatusmentis | Liquidity_C: yes, there was pay :) |
| 22:20.10 | thiago_home | the most popular bindings are to Python though\ |
| 22:20.10 | summatusmentis | $4,500 total (assuming you pass the evals) |
| 22:20.17 | mhutch | Ivanovic: QT binding for Mono. You can even write plasma applets. |
| 22:20.25 | Liquidity_C | summatusmentis, good? I only need something to enable me to keep my apt over the summer |
| 22:21.10 | summatusmentis | they pay $500 initially, $2,000 after the midterm eval, and $2,00 after the final eval |
| 22:21.17 | Liquidity_C | evals... hmm... I need to read some stuff about that |
| 22:21.57 | summatusmentis | basically you evaluate your mentor and the program, your mentor evaluates you, your progress, the program |
| 22:22.04 | summatusmentis | and mentor decides if you pass or not |
| 22:22.11 | mhutch | Ivanovic: https://www.ohloh.net/tags/c%23 |
| 22:22.17 | Liquidity_C | only just heard about the GSoC today, went to the homepage and saw the channel listed there |
| 22:22.23 | Liquidity_C | this channel that is |
| 22:22.33 | summatusmentis | !faq |
| 22:22.33 | socinfo | "faq" is http://code.google.com/soc/2008/faqs.html |
| 22:23.07 | Liquidity_C | any group programs made or only individual things? |
| 22:23.31 | summatusmentis | your project is entirely individual |
| 22:23.56 | summatusmentis | I mean, in the sense that you're the only one writing code for your specific project |
| 22:24.03 | summatusmentis | you've got a mentor and an org, obviously |
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| 22:24.46 | Liquidity_C | naturally |
| 22:24.50 | mhutch | of course, it's possible to do something that's part of a larger project, as long as your code is is a distinct and discrete component |
| 22:25.03 | Liquidity_C | *nod* |
| 22:25.18 | summatusmentis | mhutch: well, yes, but you don't want your code to be dependent on someone else's code, or vice versa |
| 22:25.40 | mhutch | summatusmentis: yes, that's not ideal :) |
| 22:25.49 | mhutch | was in that situation |
| 22:25.53 | summatusmentis | :-/ |
| 22:26.10 | Liquidity_C | actually I will be taking C++ after the winter holidays, adding that to what I know at the moment about the language wich is limited I might be able to work with that to |
| 22:26.39 | summatusmentis | you learn a lot while working on the project |
| 22:26.47 | summatusmentis | learned a lot about mem management in C |
| 22:27.16 | mhutch | learned too much about C#/C++/XPCOM interop |
| 22:27.58 | Liquidity_C | I picked up allot about mem management using intel-assembler |
| 22:28.00 | Catfish_Man | hides from the xpcom |
| 22:28.38 | mhutch | hah, yeah |
| 22:28.45 | Liquidity_C | witch is a pain debugging programs in |
| 22:28.52 | mhutch | we'll be porting to webkit-gtk as soon as possible |
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| 22:28.56 | Catfish_Man | hooray :D |
| 22:28.59 | Catfish_Man | </bias> |
| 22:29.26 | Catfish_Man | although I have to admit, any API with a function called kungFuGrip() gets some respect from me ;) |
| 22:29.27 | mhutch | as soon as possible = when they've implemented all the editing interfaces |
| 22:29.54 | Catfish_Man | heh, yeah. I'm spoiled by mac webkit and mature apis |
| 22:30.21 | mhutch | yeah, I reviewed the mac API and there's a ton of stuff I want |
| 22:30.38 | mhutch | editing hooks and custom painting, basically |
| 22:30.48 | Catfish_Man | there's a few bits I'd love to have added as well... I should look into it |
| 22:31.02 | Catfish_Man | I filed a bug ages ago for an api to create HTMLImageElements from NSImages |
| 22:31.08 | Liquidity_C | well, thanks for the help guys, I will go read now, got the general idea that GOsC rocks, thanks! |
| 22:31.13 | Catfish_Man | 'cause right now we write them out to temporary files, then set a file:// url |
| 22:31.16 | Catfish_Man | which is nasty |
| 22:31.24 | Catfish_Man | glad we could help liquidity_c :) |
| 22:35.21 | Liquidity_C | by the way... |
| 22:35.33 | Liquidity_C | say what size projects are we talking? |
| 22:36.52 | Liquidity_C | small, normal, larger, giant or inhumane? |
| 22:37.10 | Catfish_Man | liquidity_c: well, the four I'm familiar with were (in order from smallest to largest): sparkweb @ ~20kloc, adium @ ~250kloc, openfire @ ~300kloc, and webkit at ~800kloc |
| 22:37.56 | Liquidity_C | I have never actually done larger programs that where not school projects even if some of theses easily could be used professionally |
| 22:38.10 | mhutch | mono, 7.3 MLOC |
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| 22:38.54 | mhutch | monodevelop, ~600KLOC |
| 22:39.00 | Liquidity_C | Catfish_Man: kloc? ? lines of code right, but the K? thousand? |
| 22:39.06 | Catfish_Man | yeah |
| 22:39.14 | Catfish_Man | and M being million in mono's case |
| 22:39.16 | Catfish_Man | (wtf) |
| 22:39.20 | mhutch | but my first project was a standalone tool, ended up being about 6kloc |
| 22:39.36 | mhutch | Catfish_Man: according to ohloh :) |
| 22:39.47 | Liquidity_C | Catfish_Man: kinda guessed just wanted to make sure, well in an object oriented prog that is kinda normal |
| 22:40.18 | mhutch | linux kernel is 10.7 MLOC |
| 22:40.38 | mhutch | things grow over time :) |
| 22:40.43 | Catfish_Man | mhutch: although how big it really is depends a lot on what you're compiling |
| 22:40.55 | Catfish_Man | Linus was recently mentioning that a clean kernel build for him takes 16 seconds |
| 22:41.02 | Catfish_Man | which is definitely not 10M lines ;) |
| 22:41.25 | mhutch | well, true, and that applies to mono too. That's not just the jit/runtime, but all the class libraries too |
| 22:41.33 | mhutch | and tests, most likely |
| 22:41.42 | mhutch | I doubt ohloh distinguishes |
| 22:41.54 | Liquidity_C | you see I know coding, but never having done anything too serious earlier you get kinda nervous, don't want to screw up and make a fool of myself, hehe |
| 22:42.27 | Liquidity_C | Catfish_Man: what do you expect in a... what do you call it... protege? |
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| 22:43.18 | Catfish_Man | student |
| 22:43.55 | mhutch | apprentice ;-) |
| 22:44.04 | Catfish_Man | generally speaking I'm looking for enthusiasm the most, tbh. If they've got the drive to do well, a lot of other stuff will follow from that |
| 22:44.14 | Liquidity_C | padwan :D |
| 22:44.27 | Liquidity_C | sorry I like starwars. hehe |
| 22:44.35 | Catfish_Man | also self-motivation and planning. We get a lot of students who just dive in without really looking around |
| 22:44.45 | Catfish_Man | and the ones that take the time to check out the code *before* applying have much better proposals |
| 22:44.49 | Catfish_Man | and more realistic schedules |
| 22:45.57 | mhutch | and if students have already contributed , that's generally a sign that they're motivated :) |
| 22:46.02 | Liquidity_C | Catfish_Man: got it, well drive and planning I have and know, I like coding, actually making something not being handed to a teacher and then stored in some old folder on my HD to collect dust makes it even more fun |
| 22:46.41 | Catfish_Man | good design skills and ability and such are nice, but frankly most students just don't have the experience working at a large scale |
| 22:46.55 | mhutch | true, and GSoC is a great way to learn |
| 22:47.00 | Catfish_Man | so the importance of things like encapsulation and abstraction layering just haven't been hammered into them |
| 22:47.34 | mhutch | I recommend picking a well-architected project to work on so you pick up some good experience |
| 22:48.10 | Liquidity_C | I can be quite concerned about OOC, but I shall checkout whats out there and see what I think, any recommendations on open-source that is based on java preferably? |
| 22:48.36 | mhutch | is biased towards C# |
| 22:48.46 | Catfish_Man | liquidity_c: again, personal bias here, but openfire is a great one to check out. |
| 22:49.06 | Catfish_Man | if you do, tell gato that David says hi ;) |
| 22:49.18 | Liquidity_C | will do, any links to share? |
| 22:49.27 | Liquidity_C | I could just google it I guess, hehe |
| 22:49.30 | mhutch | and if you'd be willing to try C#, MonoDevelop is a sound choice |
| 22:49.39 | Catfish_Man | http://www.igniterealtime.org/projects/openfire/index.jsp |
| 22:51.22 | mhutch | IDEs are always fun because you get to dogfood continuously ;-) |
| 22:51.43 | Catfish_Man | mhutch: heh, I worked on Drosera (webkit js debugger prior to the current one) for a while |
| 22:51.48 | Catfish_Man | it's written in JS itself primarily |
| 22:51.54 | Catfish_Man | made debugging it... interesting |
| 22:52.12 | mhutch | heh, sounds fun |
| 22:52.17 | mhutch | what's the current one? |
| 22:52.24 | Catfish_Man | the builtin one in the web inspector |
| 22:52.31 | mhutch | I do web stuff in MD, so that kind of thing interests me... |
| 22:52.49 | Catfish_Man | the degree of suck is immensely lower, particularly on large stuff |
| 22:53.03 | Catfish_Man | since it's not doing IPC on every line of code to check if there's a breakpoint ;) |
| 22:53.12 | mhutch | oh wow |
| 22:53.19 | mhutch | that would really hurt |
| 22:55.10 | mhutch | JS debugging in MD would be nice |
| 22:55.21 | mhutch | VS can do some crazy stuff with AJAX debugging |
| 22:55.37 | mhutch | stepping between client and server |
| 22:59.05 | Liquidity_C | openfire is real neat, I have to try it out on some day, on my laptop now, got no real use for it here |
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