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| 01:07.15 | MatthewWilkes | lh! You're cloakless! |
| 01:07.23 | MatthewWilkes | How unusual! |
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| 01:15.00 | lh | MatthewWilkes: i'm home :) |
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| 01:15.12 | r0bby | LOL! |
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| 01:15.13 | r0bby | http://dilbert.com/dyn_file/str_strip/45278/gif/strip.print/ |
| 01:15.17 | r0bby | er |
| 01:15.36 | r0bby | no that;'s right |
| 01:15.37 | r0bby | :) |
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| 01:21.06 | Ori_B | debates going to pycon. |
| 01:21.19 | Ori_B | from what a friend told me, it's supposed to be awesome. |
| 01:21.27 | Ori_B | it's also in the last week of school and I really should attend that... |
| 01:22.23 | summatusmentis | as much fun as conferences are, last week of school > pycon |
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| 01:22.59 | Ori_B | summatusmentis: yeah. but if I only go for the core days, I think I only miss one or two days... |
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| 01:25.34 | anothy_x | Ori_B: what level of school? |
| 01:25.51 | summatusmentis | still, go to class |
| 01:27.04 | Ori_B | anothy_x: undergrad, 4th year out of 5 |
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| 01:32.26 | MatthewWilkes | lh: I'm not sure I've ever heard you say that before ;) |
| 01:36.05 | ScottMac | make |
| 01:36.13 | ScottMac | wrong window |
| 01:36.28 | lh | MatthewWilkes: yes you have. :) |
| 01:40.49 | MatthewWilkes | lh: It must be my imagination trying to explain how you always seem to be working |
| 01:41.44 | Ori_B | MatthewWilkes: hey, have you never heard of working from home? |
| 01:41.46 | Ori_B | :P |
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| 01:42.26 | Ori_B | plus, there are also all the clones and body doubles |
| 01:42.41 | ScottMac | i so need a clone |
| 01:42.41 | MatthewWilkes | Ori_B: I don't like working at home, means I have to go elsewhere to relax. |
| 01:42.48 | ScottMac | i think every project does |
| 01:43.07 | MatthewWilkes | Been spending stupid amounts of money I don't have in pubs having meals/drinks out every weekend |
| 01:43.16 | Ori_B | the only problem with clones of me is that they'd all be just as lazy :( |
| 01:43.31 | ScottMac | i'm letting Microsoft treat me to drink of recent |
| 01:43.40 | Ori_B | speaking of which, HOLY CRAP I FORGOT THAT I HAVE A MIDTERM TOMORROW. |
| 01:44.08 | ScottMac | there is another event in London on Thursday |
| 01:44.12 | ScottMac | microsoft-beer++ |
| 01:44.55 | Ori_B | ScottMac: hm? conference or some other similar event? |
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| 01:45.10 | ScottMac | its a MIX09 event think |
| 01:45.14 | ScottMac | s/think/thing/ |
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| 01:45.58 | ScottMac | they're going to stream some of the stuff from Vegas, and we get to mingle and enjoy some hospitality |
| 01:51.15 | ojwb | just don't sign anything with blood |
| 01:51.36 | MatthewWilkes | Indeed - ink is much cheaper |
| 01:51.53 | ojwb | looks suspiciously at MatthewWilkes |
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| 01:52.02 | ojwb | most of us have a free supply of blood... |
| 01:52.15 | lh | Ori_B: omg. good luck with that dude. |
| 01:52.42 | lh | ojwb: not exactly. you have to eat and drink a lot keep up those fluid levels. |
| 01:53.06 | ojwb | speaking of which, time for coffee |
| 01:54.24 | MatthewWilkes | ojwb: Thanks for that, was going to say that but thought I was going to look like a nutter, so was searching for a way out of it. |
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| 01:58.27 | ojwb | MatthewWilkes: I know what you mean - I'm trying to avoid mentioning my free supply of blood from the bodies in the basement... |
| 01:58.29 | Ori_B | lh: I'm not too worried about this midterm. it's mostly a rehash of my summer job last year :) |
| 01:58.54 | summatusmentis | hi all |
| 01:59.10 | ScottMac | the Microsoft people in the UK are nice, at least the ones that talk to the opensource projects |
| 01:59.28 | summatusmentis | secretly, they're stealing your sould |
| 01:59.31 | summatusmentis | soul* |
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| 02:02.53 | MatthewWilkes | Nathan Barley - totally mexico |
| 02:03.16 | ThomasWaldmann | btw, slightly offtopic, except that it's geeky hw: someone here has a thinkpad x300? |
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| 02:08.06 | LeePope | It is 1 day, 16 hours, 52 minutes and 2 seconds until Wednesday, March 18, 2009 at 7:00:00 PM (UTC time) |
| 02:12.22 | r0bby | =) |
| 02:12.52 | cjhopman | ThomasWaldmann: i've heard good things about the x300 |
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| 02:15.12 | ThomasWaldmann | cjhopman: i've also seen much praise, but also some people cursing the fan control |
| 02:16.08 | ThomasWaldmann | i'm mainly interested in that because my old 10" laptop has stopped working and I've seen a x300 at 999eur |
| 02:16.12 | Landon | kicks django |
| 02:17.18 | ThomasWaldmann | i didnt want such a "big" laptop, but for that price and with a 64gb ssd and 1440x900 it is somehow sexy. |
| 02:18.17 | WinterMute | 64gig ssd, nice |
| 02:18.39 | WinterMute | loves his macbook though |
| 02:18.58 | ThomasWaldmann | types on a olpc XO currently :) |
| 02:19.12 | Landon | eee! |
| 02:19.39 | ThomasWaldmann | eeek! :) |
| 02:19.42 | isforinsects | ThomasWaldmann: +1 :) |
| 02:21.09 | ThomasWaldmann | if they had given the XO 1G RAM or at least 512M, it wouldn't OOM when running 1 terminal and 1 browser loading some bigger page. |
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| 02:22.46 | ojwb | how much does it have? |
| 02:23.03 | ThomasWaldmann | 256 |
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| 02:25.01 | r0bby | I wish I had a 64 bit proc :( |
| 02:25.02 | r0bby | :/ |
| 02:25.14 | Raim | r0bby: just to be cool? :) |
| 02:25.19 | LeePope | sad |
| 02:25.29 | r0bby | No, so I could take advantage of the 4GB RAM. |
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| 02:26.04 | LeePope | Hey is my text Green? |
| 02:26.07 | Raim | r0bby: my CPU can run 64-Bit, just my chipset does not support more than 3 GB RAM |
| 02:26.22 | LeePope | or yellow? |
| 02:26.24 | r0bby | oh that's just fail. |
| 02:26.28 | r0bby | LeePope: no |
| 02:26.39 | r0bby | don't use color please |
| 02:26.58 | LeePope | So you can see the color? |
| 02:27.24 | Raim | no, and please do not try to use color ;) |
| 02:27.42 | LeePope | ok |
| 02:27.53 | ThomasWaldmann | r0bby: 64bit can be more pain than do good, if you just have 4GB. Of course you want it for >>4GB, but for 4, some sw issues are more pain than you win by 64bit. |
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| 02:27.58 | LeePope | <b>ok</b> |
| 02:28.02 | LeePope | :( |
| 02:28.46 | Raim | LeePope: *bold* _underline_ /italic/ |
| 02:28.51 | r0bby | LeePope: WTG |
| 02:29.00 | r0bby | you just used HTML in an IRC channel. |
| 02:29.09 | Landon | heh |
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| 02:29.25 | LeePope | Raim: How did you do the underline and the italic? |
| 02:29.32 | LeePope | _under_ |
| 02:29.35 | LeePope | oh :) |
| 02:29.54 | Landon | :p |
| 02:29.56 | r0bby | LeePope: you don't need to know |
| 02:30.08 | ScottMac | luckily my client strips them :) |
| 02:30.10 | hypa7ia | italic doesn't work in irssi :( |
| 02:30.31 | Raim | hypa7ia: I don't think any terminal supports italic |
| 02:30.32 | LeePope | _/ital/ |
| 02:30.38 | hypa7ia | o rite |
| 02:30.38 | hypa7ia | hehe |
| 02:31.15 | Raim | is there even something like a monospace font with italics? |
| 02:31.35 | r0bby | LeePope: doesn't wor. |
| 02:31.38 | r0bby | in irssi. |
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| 02:33.42 | LeePope | http://www.thehumorarchives.com/attachment/561/hardworking.jpg :) |
| 02:34.34 | r0bby | ugh |
| 02:35.38 | LeePope | How many George W. Bush Administration officials does it take to screw in alight bulb? |
| 02:36.49 | ThomasWaldmann | none, they are from the dark side |
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| 02:47.57 | ScottMac | one more patch to do then I can sleep |
| 02:48.02 | summatusmentis | Landon: you around? |
| 02:48.07 | Landon | >.> |
| 02:48.15 | Landon | I checked right before you highlighted me! |
| 02:48.18 | Landon | curses! |
| 02:48.22 | Landon | I was almost away :p |
| 02:48.25 | Landon | yeah, whats up? |
| 02:48.37 | summatusmentis | the multi-touch stuff on the eee, does it work under linux? |
| 02:48.46 | Landon | yeah |
| 02:48.53 | Landon | single, double, triple click |
| 02:48.54 | Landon | :P |
| 02:48.59 | Landon | two finger scrolling |
| 02:48.59 | Landon | etc |
| 02:50.10 | summatusmentis | awesome |
| 02:50.14 | summatusmentis | you can leave now :) |
| 02:50.27 | summatusmentis | lh: so many tweets! |
| 02:52.06 | Landon | o.O |
| 02:52.11 | Landon | summatusmentis: what did you want me for? |
| 02:52.20 | Landon | oh |
| 02:52.24 | Landon | curse my short memory! |
| 02:52.25 | summatusmentis | Landon: I really just wanted to ask about the eee |
| 02:52.33 | summatusmentis | wait, seriously? |
| 02:52.35 | Landon | I completely forgot we had that conversation |
| 02:52.36 | Landon | :| |
| 02:52.41 | Landon | I thought it was just random jibber jabber |
| 02:52.43 | Landon | shit |
| 02:52.47 | summatusmentis | hrr |
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| 02:55.12 | summatusmentis | Landon: you're free to go about your business now :) |
| 02:55.33 | allisterb__ | these are not the droids you are looking for |
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| 02:59.47 | isforinsects | webchick: ping |
| 03:00.07 | webchick | isforinsects, pong |
| 03:01.13 | isforinsects | ThomasWaldmann: give it time, I think you'll be happy with the next revision |
| 03:01.37 | isforinsects | I just realized that I've been following your posts to the GnuBook threads for a couple weeks now |
| 03:01.49 | isforinsects | assumes you're the same person? |
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| 03:02.10 | ojwb | we're all the same person |
| 03:02.28 | summatusmentis | I am spartacus |
| 03:02.34 | ojwb | isn't |
| 03:03.10 | *** join/#gsoc joeyadams (n=joey@70.151.149.100) |
| 03:03.21 | Landon | I am SPARTACVS |
| 03:03.27 | webchick | isforinsects, GnuBook? Me? |
| 03:03.32 | webchick | I don't think so. :) |
| 03:03.37 | webchick | I'm a Drupal person. :) |
| 03:03.46 | ojwb | Landon: clever... |
| 03:04.26 | summatusmentis | _the_ Drupal person |
| 03:04.46 | summatusmentis | >_> |
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| 03:05.49 | isforinsects | webchick: interesting |
| 03:05.56 | antarus | summatusmentis: maybe slightly overshooting the fence there ;p |
| 03:06.08 | summatusmentis | antarus: haha, I know :-P |
| 03:06.09 | isforinsects | there's someone on Launchpad then that is working on archive.org / OpenLibrary projects with the same usrname |
| 03:07.10 | webchick | Well it's not really very creative, so I'm not shocked there's someone else out there with the name. :) |
| 03:07.29 | webchick | But I'm this one: http://webchick.net/ |
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| 03:11.12 | sharpdevelop | lh: Hi! May I have a second of your valuable time? The application edit page says "Error: This page is inactive at this time.". I assume this means that the applications are read-only at this time. I would like to change the LinkID of the backup administrator for SharpDevelop. Is it going to be possible post-acceptance? (if we are finally accepted this year :-) ) -- David |
| 03:11.38 | *** part/#gsoc theJack (i=foobar@spnp220211.spnp.nus.edu.sg) |
| 03:12.41 | summatusmentis | sharpdevelop: she may have gone to bed |
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| 03:13.17 | sharpdevelop | ahhh.... ok |
| 03:13.29 | summatusmentis | stick around |
| 03:13.33 | summatusmentis | or shoot her an email |
| 03:14.07 | sharpdevelop | I will try tomorrow morning |
| 03:14.44 | ojwb | you'll be able to edit many things post acceptance AIUI |
| 03:15.18 | Landon | as is usually impromptu? |
| 03:15.18 | lh | sharpdevelop: you can't edit your application right now, but you can update such information should your appliation be accepted |
| 03:15.30 | sharpdevelop | thanks! |
| 03:15.40 | lh | sharpdevelop: you are most welcome |
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| 03:15.54 | sharpdevelop | and good night :-) |
| 03:16.09 | lh | sharpdevelop: thinkin' about it. |
| 03:16.30 | summatusmentis | I should stop assuming things |
| 03:16.37 | summatusmentis | makes me look stupid :) |
| 03:17.24 | summatusmentis | rages at the CIEE website |
| 03:17.40 | lh | summatusmentis: i got stuck in a twitter hole |
| 03:17.50 | summatusmentis | I noticed :-D |
| 03:18.02 | r0bby | twitter shitter :-/ |
| 03:18.13 | r0bby | it sums up why i hate twitter :( |
| 03:18.20 | summatusmentis | <3 twitter |
| 03:18.35 | antarus | oh dear this conversation can't go anywhere good |
| 03:19.16 | r0bby | gets out the big eraser and erases this text from everybody's screen |
| 03:19.24 | antarus | so to switch topics |
| 03:19.29 | antarus | http://www.gentoo.org/ |
| 03:19.30 | lh | r0bby: i prefer twitterhea |
| 03:19.34 | antarus | does our distro look 'inactive' to you? |
| 03:19.37 | lh | antarus: awesome. |
| 03:19.52 | lh | antarus: who suggested this? |
| 03:19.52 | r0bby | lh: it's horrid :( |
| 03:19.57 | antarus | people keep arguing with me that the front page does not convey the fact that 'we are actually working on stuff' |
| 03:20.01 | lh | r0bby: yes, but all the cool kids are doing it. |
| 03:20.19 | antarus | and I'm really trying to grasp where they get this idea; are they trolling? can they not read dates? etc... |
| 03:20.22 | summatusmentis | antarus: it doesn't convey anything different than say, the debian front page |
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| 03:20.42 | summatusmentis | in terms of activity, that is |
| 03:20.43 | r0bby | I'm not cool! |
| 03:20.48 | Landon | antarus: you've got blog posts from march THIS YEAR, I'd say that's active :P |
| 03:20.52 | Landon | ocompared to say, irssi |
| 03:20.57 | r0bby | lh: Burke/paul using it :P |
| 03:20.59 | lh | yeah that whole planet blog post from yesterday screams inactive antarus |
| 03:20.59 | antarus | irssi is not a distro ;p |
| 03:21.06 | lh | r0bby: paul is, can't find burke |
| 03:21.10 | r0bby | Oh |
| 03:21.13 | Landon | antarus: but it's a very unactive project :P |
| 03:21.19 | Landon | Windows installer |
| 03:21.21 | Landon | Posted by Sebastian Pipping on January 30th 2008. |
| 03:21.22 | antarus | (to be fair 2 months ago our frontpage was barren and horrid) |
| 03:21.36 | antarus | but that was totally 2 months ago; maybe they just don't visit the front page enough |
| 03:21.50 | anothy_x | people frequently won't get past the first few lines before making such a determination, sadly. |
| 03:21.54 | ojwb | debian's website probably isn't a good basis for comparison though |
| 03:22.05 | antarus | debians is a bit...odd looking |
| 03:22.17 | summatusmentis | yes, it absolutely is |
| 03:22.20 | antarus | gentoo's is closing on 8 years old though |
| 03:22.21 | antarus | we need a new one |
| 03:22.34 | summatusmentis | can't handle dealing with CIEE at this hour |
| 03:22.45 | ojwb | wow, gentoo's is far too long for a front page |
| 03:22.49 | summatusmentis | I wish my school were affiliated with ISA, this whole study abroad thing would be easier |
| 03:23.16 | r0bby | found paul :) |
| 03:23.21 | antarus | yeah i think the mainpage XSL allows like 30 items |
| 03:23.26 | r0bby | yeh if burke isn't doing it |
| 03:23.30 | antarus | we should probably bring it down to 10 |
| 03:23.31 | r0bby | all the cool kids aren't doing it! |
| 03:23.32 | r0bby | :P |
| 03:24.18 | summatusmentis | antarus: what do you do for gentoo? |
| 03:24.31 | antarus | I currently plan on retiring at the end of the month ;p |
| 03:24.39 | summatusmentis | ha |
| 03:24.52 | antarus | I find that most of my work does not require me to be an 'official developer' |
| 03:24.55 | lh | r0bby: it's actually a decent way to find news too. |
| 03:25.01 | r0bby | BAH |
| 03:25.07 | r0bby | also verbose |
| 03:25.20 | antarus | and its not that hard to send patches to people who do far more work than me |
| 03:25.32 | summatusmentis | true |
| 03:25.36 | antarus | summatusmentis: but I find myself trying to organize things more; not a lot of technical work |
| 03:25.47 | summatusmentis | ah, that's reasonable |
| 03:26.10 | antarus | used to work on portage, qa, x86, treecleaners, gleps, pr, user relations |
| 03:26.14 | antarus | oh and elections |
| 03:26.16 | antarus | too many things :/ |
| 03:26.23 | *** part/#gsoc ajaksu (n=ajaksu@201-88-195-77.bsace704.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 03:26.25 | summatusmentis | oh wow |
| 03:26.34 | impl | damn yo |
| 03:26.44 | summatusmentis | used to run gentoo |
| 03:26.45 | antarus | gleps, pr, and user relations were probably the most fun, oddly in hindsight |
| 03:26.48 | summatusmentis | then it got boring |
| 03:26.55 | antarus | it does tend to eat up ones time |
| 03:26.58 | antarus | only has 1 machine left |
| 03:27.06 | antarus | and I never recompile stuff ;p |
| 03:27.08 | Landon | hehe |
| 03:27.15 | Landon | it's all about being efficient |
| 03:27.15 | r0bby | lh: i once made the mistake of having it send tweets to my cell |
| 03:27.22 | r0bby | OH MY GOD! never again! |
| 03:27.23 | Landon | running gentoo isn't ;] even if it decreases your constant |
| 03:27.30 | lh | r0bby: oh i turned that crap off right away for everyone but my room mate. |
| 03:27.31 | ojwb | not sure that "boring" is a bad thing for an OS |
| 03:27.45 | lh | because she's really funny. and we can't seem to be bothered to walk down the hall to talk to each other. |
| 03:27.50 | antarus | just started using this..facebook.thing... |
| 03:27.51 | summatusmentis | it was interesting for a while, but I'd rather have easy over interesting |
| 03:27.51 | antarus | ugh |
| 03:28.00 | summatusmentis | antarus: don't judge |
| 03:28.03 | summatusmentis | it's the way of teh future |
| 03:28.28 | antarus | I'm one of those 'no I wont add you as a friend' people |
| 03:28.31 | *** part/#gsoc eakwarren (n=geiss@67-60-39-102.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 03:28.38 | antarus | I had a bunch of co-workers try and add me |
| 03:28.40 | summatusmentis | for whatever reason, I'm really intrigued by the 'social' part of what's happening on the internet |
| 03:28.42 | ojwb | that's the stuff that puts me off social sites |
| 03:28.45 | antarus | 'no man, thats what linked in is for' ;) |
| 03:28.56 | r0bby | lh: AIM :) |
| 03:29.01 | ojwb | i really don't want to spend ages mutually friending people, but I don't want to offend people |
| 03:29.06 | summatusmentis | facebook > linkedin any day of the week |
| 03:29.10 | Landon | lh: you remind me of the movie RV |
| 03:29.13 | antarus | ojwb: I wrote up a note |
| 03:29.18 | antarus | so I point them to that when I reject ;p |
| 03:29.22 | Landon | popping open the instant messager "Dinner's ready" |
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| 03:29.28 | antarus | 'read this canned response ;)' |
| 03:29.29 | ojwb | even rejecting people is effort |
| 03:29.56 | antarus | needs to stop working |
| 03:30.01 | Landon | my philosophy: computers are the worst invention ever. period |
| 03:30.02 | Landon | :P |
| 03:30.12 | ScottMac | two more patches to do before the freeze on Wednesday |
| 03:30.16 | Landon | the internet wasn't much of an improvement |
| 03:30.21 | lh | r0bby: s'okay |
| 03:30.25 | lh | Landon: never seen it. |
| 03:30.31 | lh | goes to imdb.com |
| 03:30.36 | Landon | robin williams |
| 03:30.36 | Landon | :) |
| 03:30.45 | summatusmentis | lh: don't waste your time :) |
| 03:30.46 | r0bby | lh: you missed a funny time |
| 03:30.58 | r0bby | I chickened out singing Madonna - Like a virgin |
| 03:31.11 | lh | r0bby: karoke is AWESOME. |
| 03:31.11 | r0bby | and I came VERY close to singing West side story - I feel pretty |
| 03:31.14 | lh | loves to sing |
| 03:31.20 | r0bby | I tried to do it sober |
| 03:31.21 | r0bby | lOL |
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| 03:31.24 | antarus | kareoke in japan was awesome |
| 03:31.26 | r0bby | it was a competiton :( |
| 03:31.27 | lh | Landon: you are correct in your philosophical statement |
| 03:31.30 | r0bby | I got booed :( |
| 03:31.31 | antarus | never done it in 'merica |
| 03:31.44 | r0bby | my friends were pissed at me :( |
| 03:31.46 | lh | r0bby: what?!?!? lame. i have never booed anyone. even those richly deserving it. |
| 03:31.50 | r0bby | and disappointed lol |
| 03:31.54 | Landon | yeah, I wouldnt know what I'd do without computers either :( |
| 03:31.54 | lh | antarus: if you want we could go sometime. |
| 03:31.57 | r0bby | I laughed lol |
| 03:32.00 | Landon | actually |
| 03:32.01 | r0bby | that's bout it :X |
| 03:32.02 | Landon | come to think of it |
| 03:32.03 | antarus | fears it and fears it often |
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| 03:32.11 | Landon | its an extension of Ignorance is Bliss |
| 03:32.11 | r0bby | not too loud though :) |
| 03:32.12 | lh | there's a great dive bar in sunnyvale that promotes this activity. |
| 03:32.19 | lh | dive bars ftw! |
| 03:32.28 | r0bby | I wanna do karaoke but i wont do it alone |
| 03:32.47 | antarus | kareoke alone is called singing in the car |
| 03:32.52 | antarus | and I do that every day ;p |
| 03:32.59 | lh | Landon: this summary is unreadable. what is RV? |
| 03:33.16 | antarus | lh: its a retarded comedy film starring oh whatshisname |
| 03:33.24 | lh | antarus: that part i gathered |
| 03:33.25 | Landon | a disjointed family comes together in an all-american RV trip across the US |
| 03:33.25 | Landon | :) |
| 03:33.26 | antarus | robin williams |
| 03:33.40 | lh | Landon: we aren't disjointed. are we? |
| 03:33.43 | Landon | it's not something to go out of your way to watch though |
| 03:33.43 | antarus | retarded comedy should give it away pretty well ;p |
| 03:33.52 | antarus | its not even a cult classic comedy |
| 03:33.52 | lh | puts on "we are family" and grooves |
| 03:33.55 | antarus | such as super troopers ;p |
| 03:33.55 | Landon | as in... don't change the channel for it |
| 03:33.56 | Landon | :) |
| 03:34.05 | lh | antarus: no super troopers was AWESOME. |
| 03:34.08 | lh | awesome. |
| 03:34.12 | lh | made of awesome. |
| 03:34.23 | lh | pull over! i am pulled over! |
| 03:34.29 | antarus | I agree; I own it on dvd |
| 03:34.37 | isforinsects | lh: civicrm +1 |
| 03:34.51 | isforinsects | I can't go to that meetup, but it looks awesome |
| 03:35.06 | r0bby | lh: I won't be mentoring this summer, and this summer student won't happen :( |
| 03:35.07 | antarus | may go home and watch it again |
| 03:35.25 | r0bby | i dunno though :/ |
| 03:35.26 | lh | isforinsects: agrreed. |
| 03:35.36 | r0bby | the whole economy being like it is, i doubt i'll get in |
| 03:35.38 | lh | r0bby: it'll be fine. concentrate on chilling out. |
| 03:35.48 | lh | advocates chilling out, provides iced tea |
| 03:35.58 | summatusmentis | goes to make hot jasmine tea |
| 03:36.12 | isforinsects | lh: I've been musing over deploying civicrm for OLPC for a few weeks |
| 03:36.17 | r0bby | I also think i may have annoyed darius by grabbing onto a project that was earmarked for soc w/o checking w/ him :x |
| 03:36.21 | r0bby | ooops |
| 03:36.35 | lh | isforinsects: depending on what you need donor mgmt wise, it's very very good. |
| 03:36.46 | r0bby | i fixed that problem by undoing it ;) |
| 03:37.07 | r0bby | i want that project :( |
| 03:37.24 | borja | hi all |
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| 03:37.34 | borja | drat, the ISS flew over CHicago earlier today and I missed it |
| 03:38.40 | isforinsects | lh I hate to say it, but I probably don't have the bandwidth to do it all myself. I may end up with a propietary system :( |
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| 03:39.04 | r0bby | I should know better than to associate w/ math majors =) |
| 03:40.43 | r0bby | My friend is crazy :) |
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| 03:43.56 | Landon | lh: twitter hates me :) |
| 03:44.10 | Landon | "0 new friend requests!" |
| 03:45.06 | summatusmentis | Landon: you need to have friends in order for them to give you a friend request >_> |
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| 03:45.20 | Landon | :P |
| 03:45.50 | summatusmentis | 'night lh |
| 03:46.03 | r0bby | Landon has no friends |
| 03:46.04 | summatusmentis | stops being twitter creepy now |
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| 03:46.06 | r0bby | HAHAHAHHA |
| 03:46.15 | r0bby | i'm such a meanie |
| 03:46.17 | lh | landon: awwww |
| 03:46.19 | r0bby | hugs Landon |
| 03:46.22 | r0bby | I love you |
| 03:46.22 | Landon | I see what you did there! |
| 03:46.25 | r0bby | I really do :) |
| 03:46.43 | lh | Landon: check now. :) |
| 03:46.57 | lh | summatusmentis: twitter creepy. |
| 03:46.58 | lh | :) |
| 03:47.05 | Landon | well now it's all disappeared! |
| 03:47.08 | borja | lh: after joining twitter today, I realized that my advisor is on twitter |
| 03:47.10 | Landon | o.O |
| 03:47.20 | summatusmentis | lh: it is creepy, in a sense |
| 03:47.22 | borja | I should avoid twittering about how I?m procrastinating |
| 03:47.25 | Landon | givesu p on twitter for tonight |
| 03:47.28 | summatusmentis | borja: mine is too :) |
| 03:47.41 | r0bby | borja: Nobody from school uses fb :) |
| 03:47.54 | r0bby | which is where i do my status updates =) |
| 03:48.02 | r0bby | I have nobody on there that i care about |
| 03:48.09 | r0bby | well... maybe my cousins |
| 03:48.20 | borja | r0bby: my advisor does... nothing makes my heart skip a beat like getting an e-mail that says "Ian has written on your wall" |
| 03:48.22 | r0bby | and my one cousin who's 13... |
| 03:48.24 | lh | borja: soon twitter will rule us all. |
| 03:48.30 | borja | Because I'm always afraid he'll write "Get back to work!" |
| 03:48.37 | lh | still advocates identi.ca, uses both, evan is awesome. |
| 03:48.44 | Landon | identica? |
| 03:48.53 | lh | borja: then you'd know he was screwing around on ze twitter too |
| 03:48.54 | r0bby | should use greet |
| 03:48.55 | r0bby | :) |
| 03:48.59 | Landon | don't make me google for this, lh! ;) |
| 03:49.01 | lh | Landon: open microblogging platform |
| 03:49.11 | Landon | ah neato |
| 03:49.21 | r0bby | lh: there's a twitter clone called hubhub in grails in action :) |
| 03:49.22 | borja | lh: good point |
| 03:49.29 | lh | think twitter but built on free software and implements the open microblogging protocol |
| 03:49.43 | Landon | I didn't even know such protocols exitsed |
| 03:49.45 | Landon | existed |
| 03:49.45 | lh | r0bby: two microblogging sites is enough. |
| 03:49.53 | lh | Landon: it does. evan wrote it. |
| 03:50.01 | lh | advocates identi.ca |
| 03:50.26 | summatusmentis | there are such things as microblogging protocols? |
| 03:51.32 | lh | there are now. |
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| 03:52.24 | Landon | should get started on a macroblogging protocol |
| 03:52.25 | Landon | involving registering whole domains to write a post |
| 03:52.25 | Landon | :) |
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| 03:52.29 | lh | identi.ca is built using http://laconi.ca/trac/ |
| 03:52.29 | r0bby | bloat |
| 03:52.29 | summatusmentis | r0bby: you develop in java, who are you to talk about bloat? >_> |
| 03:52.29 | Landon | win |
| 03:52.29 | Landon | 2:D |
| 03:52.29 | r0bby | summatusmentis: I code in groovy |
| 03:52.48 | impl | hmm, uses OAuth |
| 03:52.48 | impl | interesting |
| 03:52.48 | r0bby | props ?: null |
| 03:52.48 | summatusmentis | r0bby: I know, it was a joke :) |
| 03:52.48 | impl | This is the second thing I've seen talking about OAuth in the past few weeks, I need to look into this |
| 03:52.58 | r0bby | That's a return statement :) |
| 03:52.58 | r0bby | ?: is called the elvis operator :D |
| 03:53.07 | r0bby | giggles |
| 03:53.07 | Landon | groo.... OH I SEE WHAT THEY DID |
| 03:53.08 | Landon | :P |
| 03:53.25 | impl | r0bby: Is it equivalent to the ternary expression props ? props : null ? |
| 03:53.30 | r0bby | yes |
| 03:53.35 | r0bby | props != null ? props : null |
| 03:53.37 | impl | I like that name |
| 03:53.42 | Landon | ethical or unethical: Calling a number scribbled in a used book |
| 03:53.43 | Landon | :) |
| 03:53.44 | impl | PHP calls it the 'if-set-or' operator |
| 03:53.45 | r0bby | (null means false in groovy |
| 03:53.52 | impl | :\ |
| 03:53.54 | r0bby | wait no |
| 03:53.58 | Landon | too bad it doesnt have an area code |
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| 03:54.02 | r0bby | props.size() > 0 ? props : null |
| 03:54.10 | summatusmentis | Landon: ethical, although a bit creepy |
| 03:54.19 | Landon | :P |
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| 03:54.28 | Landon | <3 used books |
| 03:54.30 | Landon | find the neatest things |
| 03:54.35 | summatusmentis | not twitter creepy, but creepy |
| 03:54.38 | Landon | found a picture of some guys and old computers in one |
| 03:54.51 | Landon | in an algorithms book I found a congratulations note written on the inside |
| 03:55.04 | summatusmentis | wonders if identi.ca scales as poorly as twitter |
| 03:55.04 | Landon | a plane tickett stub in dirk gently's holistic detective agency |
| 03:55.06 | Landon | and now this! |
| 03:55.25 | lh | Landon: ethical provided you do not breathe heavily or impersonate a telemarketer |
| 03:55.29 | summatusmentis | where do you get your used books from? I don't get anything interesting |
| 03:55.33 | Landon | ebay |
| 03:55.34 | Landon | :) |
| 03:55.36 | summatusmentis | ah |
| 03:55.46 | Landon | google has never solved any of these mysteries though |
| 03:55.47 | Landon | such as |
| 03:55.52 | lh | Landon: i can't believe people don't clean out their books before they sell them. good. lord. |
| 03:55.53 | Landon | "Who are the B&K gang?" |
| 03:56.00 | Landon | and "Why is this a success?" |
| 03:56.16 | summatusmentis | lh: really? I could easily see myself not thinking about it in my rush to get it sent off |
| 03:56.37 | Landon | summatusmentis: well, in the case of the picture |
| 03:56.46 | Landon | you'd notice it if you just gave a quick flip through |
| 03:56.55 | Landon | ticket stubnot as much |
| 03:57.01 | summatusmentis | granted, but I wouldn't even think to do that |
| 03:57.03 | Landon | notes written on the book are a little hard to get rid of |
| 03:57.09 | Landon | :P |
| 03:57.15 | summatusmentis | :D |
| 03:57.32 | summatusmentis | needs to figure out what he could get for his macbook |
| 03:57.38 | Landon | 5 dolla |
| 03:57.41 | Landon | and shipping |
| 03:57.47 | Landon | raises his paddle |
| 03:57.57 | summatusmentis | you're not helping your eeepc evangelism case |
| 03:58.12 | lh | summatusmentis: i think my view on this is colored by my glee in learning more about my book's previous owner by what is left inside. |
| 03:58.16 | Landon | :P |
| 03:58.31 | r0bby | impl: groovy's mission is to remove noise :-) |
| 03:58.31 | summatusmentis | lh: :-D |
| 03:58.43 | Landon | lh: exactly! what if these people were hackers at MIT back in ye olden days :P |
| 03:58.50 | impl | r0bby: What do you think of Jython? |
| 03:59.04 | *** join/#gsoc ecin (n=ecin@194stb56.codetel.net.do) |
| 03:59.08 | Landon | or what if the b&k gang were some fundamental research group in the 60s |
| 03:59.09 | Landon | P |
| 03:59.30 | Landon | 70s, I guess |
| 03:59.35 | lh | Landon: best thing i ever found - old credit card statement. |
| 03:59.39 | Landon | o.O |
| 03:59.42 | lh | yep. |
| 04:00.00 | Landon | I've found a $20 once, but that was several several years back |
| 04:00.01 | lh | also sweet, love letter from a guy to his wife, more than 40 years old. |
| 04:00.17 | eakwarren | @lh: please don't tell me you're still at work? :-) |
| 04:00.27 | summatusmentis | r0bby: oooh, groovy is trying to map java bytecode, but it's a different language entirely |
| 04:00.28 | harlan | Amaxzing - a husband/wife who are older than 40 who are in love? |
| 04:00.31 | summatusmentis | I didn't understand that |
| 04:00.37 | lh | eakwarren: nope, sitting at home wanting to step away from the keyboard and clearly not getting there |
| 04:00.41 | lh | harlan: it happens. |
| 04:00.44 | lh | :) |
| 04:00.45 | harlan | :) I know |
| 04:00.48 | Landon | hm |
| 04:00.55 | Landon | too bad none of us have the power to /kick lh |
| 04:00.56 | Landon | for her own good |
| 04:00.57 | eakwarren | @lh: touche! |
| 04:01.05 | summatusmentis | scorche: you around? |
| 04:01.18 | summatusmentis | if so, kick lh so she goes to bed :) |
| 04:01.20 | lh | Landon: oh good lord. whatever. all y'all are here all the time too. |
| 04:01.26 | Landon | :P |
| 04:01.36 | Landon | I don't have a regularly scheduled job! |
| 04:01.44 | summatusmentis | ^^ |
| 04:01.46 | antarus | my job is not regualrly scheduled |
| 04:01.48 | zooko | I've been updating my Ideas page. Not knowing whether GSoC judges have already looked at it. |
| 04:01.51 | impl | doesn't sleep at night |
| 04:01.56 | zooko | But I guess a nice organized Ideas page will be good to have in any case. |
| 04:02.02 | summatusmentis | Landon: or, you know, a life |
| 04:02.05 | Landon | yeah |
| 04:02.05 | Landon | that too |
| 04:02.09 | Landon | trying, but no dice |
| 04:02.10 | impl | zooko: certainly |
| 04:02.18 | summatusmentis | Landon: I know right? |
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| 04:02.49 | impl | zooko: If our project doesn't get accepted, we're probably going to take our ideas page and merge it with our bug tracker and implement much of it [albeit much more slowly and probably less interestingly] anyway |
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| 04:02.56 | Landon | I don't even know what I want to do after college :) |
| 04:03.03 | impl | so it's an all-around good thing to do, even unrelated to GSoC |
| 04:03.14 | Landon | nothing I " |
| 04:03.15 | summatusmentis | Landon: I want to get into a PhD program |
| 04:03.19 | Landon | want" to do is profitable |
| 04:03.19 | Landon | ;) |
| 04:03.37 | Landon | I might do that if the economy is still suxxorz |
| 04:03.39 | Landon | but I've got a few years |
| 04:03.44 | ojwb | impl: yeah, much of the preparation for applying is actually useful work that rarely gets done |
| 04:03.44 | summatusmentis | yeh, me too |
| 04:03.53 | r0bby | summatusmentis: no, it compiles down to java bytecode |
| 04:03.58 | r0bby | it's a JVM language :) |
| 04:04.04 | summatusmentis | well, yeah |
| 04:04.06 | impl | ojwb: Definitely. |
| 04:04.07 | summatusmentis | that's what I meant |
| 04:04.12 | zooko | Ooh, that reminds me to add an Idea about writing a science paper. |
| 04:04.14 | Landon | Ineed some lowfat carb healthy yogurt! |
| 04:04.18 | Landon | or whatever the fridge is filled with |
| 04:04.56 | Landon | zooko: open source science! |
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| 04:05.12 | Landon | :) |
| 04:05.30 | zooko | Yeah -- open source science. |
| 04:05.32 | Landon | when I get to the written communications course, that's what I'm thinking about doing my report on, switching to open source |
| 04:05.44 | impl | I think making an 'open' scientific journal would be a pretty cool thing to do someday. |
| 04:05.47 | Landon | (from a businesses perspective) |
| 04:05.58 | summatusmentis | impl: 'open' scientific journal? |
| 04:06.02 | zooko | There are some open science journals now. |
| 04:06.04 | summatusmentis | meaning what? |
| 04:06.16 | impl | summatusmentis: Yeah, one that isn't affiliated with a university and is publicly available, for free, etc. |
| 04:06.16 | Landon | summatusmentis: they publish their latex? |
| 04:06.23 | Landon | :P |
| 04:06.28 | zooko | Free redistribution, for one thing. |
| 04:06.34 | summatusmentis | publishes Landon's latex |
| 04:06.36 | impl | The problem is that they don't really get much credibility. :( |
| 04:06.55 | summatusmentis | huh |
| 04:07.01 | lh | apparently, open source bioinformatics is waaay bigger than anyone thought |
| 04:07.23 | impl | lh: because of BioPerl? |
| 04:07.26 | summatusmentis | bioinformatics has always struck me as really boring, but I don't really know anything about it |
| 04:07.38 | impl | lh: or is that just a component of it? |
| 04:08.36 | antarus | ok timetime ;) |
| 04:08.51 | summatusmentis | timetime? |
| 04:09.00 | r0bby | i love it when irssi stops responding to input |
| 04:09.21 | *** join/#gsoc onar (n=onar@c-98-234-65-251.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:09.32 | lh | impl: no just # of biomed, bioinformatics, etc. apps we got for gsoc |
| 04:09.36 | Landon | lh: there are a lot of cool packages out there! |
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| 04:09.56 | impl | lh: oh, cool |
| 04:10.04 | Landon | (as part of my sysadmin job for the KDD group here, I'm also sysadmining for the bioinformatics group at KSU) |
| 04:10.20 | Landon | they don't need much done though :) |
| 04:10.24 | impl | lh: I've only ever seen BioPerl, will be neat to know about others |
| 04:10.39 | Landon | I assume that's because they aren't in CS and don't want everything under teh sun implemented on their server! heh |
| 04:10.40 | summatusmentis | Landon: Manhattan Kansas? |
| 04:10.42 | summatusmentis | :-P |
| 04:10.49 | Landon | summatusmentis: hecks yeah |
| 04:11.07 | summatusmentis | I hope when you hear Manhattan on tv, that's what you think of first |
| 04:11.15 | zooko | http://www.crypto.com/blog/free_usenix/ |
| 04:11.20 | zooko | ^-- free science |
| 04:11.21 | Landon | there's another manhattan? |
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| 04:11.26 | Landon | ;) |
| 04:11.33 | ojwb | the one full of daleks? |
| 04:11.48 | Landon | ojwb: ++ |
| 04:11.59 | impl | zooko: neat! |
| 04:12.23 | Aks | anbody named mario ferraro here ?????? |
| 04:12.44 | Landon | summatusmentis: why? :P |
| 04:12.51 | summatusmentis | why what? |
| 04:12.57 | ojwb | is tempted to suggest trying #mario_ferraro ... |
| 04:13.15 | ecin | ojwb: tried, empty. |
| 04:13.21 | Landon | 23:11:07 <summatusmentis> I hope when you hear Manhattan on tv, that's what you think of first |
| 04:13.22 | impl | damn. |
| 04:13.23 | Landon | that was odd! |
| 04:13.24 | Landon | that's why |
| 04:13.33 | summatusmentis | Landon: oh, just because it's funny |
| 04:13.44 | Landon | you're weird :p |
| 04:13.47 | summatusmentis | Kansas vs. NYC and all that |
| 04:13.54 | Landon | well |
| 04:13.57 | summatusmentis | don't judge me! You don't know me! |
| 04:14.02 | Landon | it's called the little apple |
| 04:14.03 | Landon | :) |
| 04:14.29 | r0bby | does anybody get cases where irssi stops responding to text input? |
| 04:14.29 | summatusmentis | :-D |
| 04:14.40 | Landon | thats the official nickname |
| 04:14.50 | summatusmentis | r0bby: sometimes, but usually it's related to net connectivity to my ssh |
| 04:14.50 | impl | r0bby: Every now and then |
| 04:14.55 | impl | yeah. it's usually my fault. |
| 04:14.56 | summatusmentis | vs irssi proper |
| 04:15.03 | impl | I don't have the issue if I'm using it locally |
| 04:15.13 | summatusmentis | I don't use it locally |
| 04:15.17 | r0bby | summatusmentis: screen responds |
| 04:15.24 | r0bby | it's just irssi |
| 04:15.41 | summatusmentis | no, I usually lose all input when it happens |
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| 04:16.19 | Landon | sometime sI think it does |
| 04:16.21 | r0bby | hrm |
| 04:16.21 | Landon | when I do alt+A |
| 04:16.23 | Landon | er |
| 04:16.24 | summatusmentis | oh crap, it's later than I thought |
| 04:16.25 | Landon | alt+a |
| 04:16.28 | Landon | but it turns out I have caps lock on! |
| 04:16.31 | Landon | and it was sending alt+A |
| 04:16.54 | gambler | hi Is someone from Google GSoc here that I can chat to? |
| 04:16.54 | r0bby | chinese mustard! |
| 04:16.55 | summatusmentis | should've been doing web dev |
| 04:16.56 | r0bby | <3 |
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| 04:17.07 | impl | Web dev is boring after a while |
| 04:17.10 | summatusmentis | gambler: what's your question? |
| 04:17.17 | impl | Well, I shouldn't say that |
| 04:17.26 | summatusmentis | impl: you're telling me, but they're paying me, and I've been really busy and haven't had time |
| 04:17.30 | impl | Doing e-commerce site after e-commerce site is boring after a while. :< |
| 04:17.45 | summatusmentis | this isn't even dev, this is more 'web dev planning' |
| 04:17.57 | impl | ah |
| 04:18.07 | Landon | wants a cushy job |
| 04:18.12 | Landon | doing sysadmin stuff for small biz |
| 04:18.21 | gambler | summatusmentis, Its regarding an internal google project |
| 04:18.34 | impl | Landon: it's all fun and games until they actually release something :P |
| 04:18.42 | summatusmentis | well, just go ahead and ask, if someone knows, they'll answer |
| 04:19.02 | Landon | impl: preferably one not involved in computers |
| 04:19.07 | Landon | where they give me their problem |
| 04:19.10 | Landon | I give them a solution |
| 04:19.14 | impl | ah |
| 04:19.20 | Landon | not "We want this because its ound s cool and we saw it on our google search" |
| 04:19.25 | impl | Yeah, that's good stuff |
| 04:19.26 | Landon | "And we tried implementing it and now it's half broken" |
| 04:19.35 | Landon | which is more like my current sysadmin job |
| 04:19.36 | Landon | :( |
| 04:19.42 | impl | "Why doesn't our Website support Kerberos authentication?" |
| 04:19.56 | impl | [public-facing Website, that is] |
| 04:20.03 | Landon | :P |
| 04:20.14 | impl | (and yes, I've really seen that asked. :P) |
| 04:20.22 | summatusmentis | urgh, I forgot how messy my sitemap is :( |
| 04:20.30 | Landon | yeah |
| 04:20.33 | Landon | the people I want to work for |
| 04:20.37 | summatusmentis | *headdesk* |
| 04:20.41 | Landon | are the people who havent the foggiest that stuff like kerberos even exists |
| 04:20.42 | Landon | :P |
| 04:20.49 | Landon | so I can continually amaze them |
| 04:20.53 | impl | haha |
| 04:20.55 | jasebo | where are those people? |
| 04:21.06 | Landon | narnia :( |
| 04:21.07 | impl | "if you sign in ... here, you're signed in ... here too! ISN'T THAT COOL?!" |
| 04:21.15 | jasebo | They're the people that say "can't you give me a site that works like google maps?" |
| 04:21.36 | Landon | impl: or LDAP "Look! You can sign on any of these computers with the SAME account! and get all your stuff! WHOA!" |
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| 04:21.46 | ecin | Like, whoa, OpenID! |
| 04:21.48 | jasebo | lol |
| 04:21.51 | impl | yeah :P |
| 04:21.53 | jasebo | no... you're mistaken |
| 04:21.54 | Landon | ideally: "WOW! We never knew you could do that, thanks so much for implementing it!" |
| 04:21.59 | ecin | No, wait, more like google accounts... |
| 04:22.03 | Landon | what I really get : "You've sure taken your time for a simple task" |
| 04:22.04 | impl | ecin: well OpenID is stupid |
| 04:22.04 | jasebo | if you find those people you _CAN'T_ introduce them to openID |
| 04:22.23 | impl | Landon: haha, aww :( |
| 04:22.30 | jasebo | it's like the tree of knowledge |
| 04:22.35 | jasebo | they bite that apple.... and then.... |
| 04:22.51 | antarus | kerberos..(shudders) |
| 04:22.54 | antarus | hates it |
| 04:23.01 | summatusmentis | hey now, nothing wrong w/ krb |
| 04:23.01 | jasebo | you just upgrade them from Windows 95 to Windows ME, and that's it. |
| 04:23.24 | impl | 'upgrade' eh? |
| 04:23.39 | antarus | I've never seen a kerberos well deployed |
| 04:24.00 | antarus | and the code is terrible |
| 04:24.12 | summatusmentis | what do you mean 'well deployed'? |
| 04:24.31 | impl | antarus: For MIT or Heimdal? |
| 04:24.47 | summatusmentis | only has experience with kerberos wrt OpenAFS |
| 04:25.25 | antarus | is vaguely sure he was looking at MIT |
| 04:25.40 | antarus | but I can't remember, because we ran both at that job |
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| 04:25.50 | antarus | the question was what year was it ;p |
| 04:25.57 | impl | I think the Heimdal code is quite a bit cleaner |
| 04:26.03 | impl | if memory serves me right, anyway |
| 04:26.12 | impl | There's a reason I picked that implementation anyway :> |
| 04:26.21 | antarus | summatusmentis: kerberized nfs, kerberized workstation logins |
| 04:26.32 | antarus | summatusmentis: it turns out depending on the network to login is a bad idea |
| 04:26.55 | antarus | (nfs homedirs are another pita) |
| 04:26.57 | impl | now |
| 04:27.01 | impl | nss_ldap and pam_ldap |
| 04:27.03 | summatusmentis | antarus: ah |
| 04:27.07 | antarus | nss_ldap is shit |
| 04:27.12 | impl | there are two pieces of software that are outright disasters |
| 04:27.16 | antarus | we wrote http://code.google.com/p/nsscache/' |
| 04:27.20 | antarus | to get around it |
| 04:28.09 | impl | antarus: Nice, I'm writing http://hg.transtruct.org/people/nfontes/srvd/file/341099f0e8a9/ABOUT at the moment to get around it :p |
| 04:28.25 | r0bby | sighs |
| 04:28.29 | zooko | Okay, I'm too sleepy to write more: http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/wiki/GSoCIdeas |
| 04:28.36 | antarus | anyway I assume if we get around to it we will probably implement some kind of kerberos cache to get aroudn the kerb network dependency |
| 04:29.17 | impl | Can you do that/is that a good idea? |
| 04:30.31 | impl | zooko: Those would be really good (and probably a bit more helpful to potential students and yourselves) if you elaborated on them a bit more, I think. |
| 04:30.37 | antarus | impl: the key here is to avoid small network blips |
| 04:30.57 | impl | antarus: Right, of course -- I'm just wondering if that breaks Kerberos's security architecture at all |
| 04:31.30 | summatusmentis | from my understanding, it does |
| 04:31.43 | antarus | not at the basic level |
| 04:31.51 | summatusmentis | if you're caching tokens, what's stopping someone from taking them? |
| 04:31.52 | antarus | I mean if you root my workstatoin you can steal my credentials |
| 04:32.02 | antarus | whoopy do |
| 04:32.06 | summatusmentis | not tokens, tickets |
| 04:32.20 | summatusmentis | now I'm confused, ignore my terminology |
| 04:32.53 | antarus | msot kerb implementations cache already (I hope) |
| 04:33.02 | antarus | otehrwise you have to make round trips to teh kdc all the time |
| 04:33.05 | antarus | and thats not a good UX |
| 04:33.21 | summatusmentis | oh, hrr |
| 04:33.21 | antarus | also it means you need lots of kdcs ;p |
| 04:34.20 | summatusmentis | that makes sense, of course there's some sort of caching, I would think |
| 04:34.28 | antarus | otherwise you'd need to type your password every time you acceessed AFS, as an example |
| 04:34.40 | antarus | if the client didn't cache your AFS ticket ;p |
| 04:34.45 | summatusmentis | well, I know AFS caches |
| 04:34.47 | impl | You only get a ticket cached when you successfully perform authentication |
| 04:34.52 | antarus | impl: right |
| 04:34.57 | impl | And for each additional authorization you request, you need to talk to the KDC again |
| 04:35.03 | antarus | so I'm saying I login to my workstation, have authed. |
| 04:35.05 | antarus | now I lock my screen |
| 04:35.07 | antarus | then I lose network |
| 04:35.18 | impl | ah okay |
| 04:35.19 | antarus | now I can't unlock my screen |
| 04:35.21 | impl | I see what you're saying. |
| 04:35.24 | antarus | because I need to talk to the KDC |
| 04:35.28 | antarus | we need a way around that |
| 04:36.06 | antarus | probably the 90% use case ;) |
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| 04:36.56 | impl | The question is how to validate the password, since nothing knows the encryption key except the KDC |
| 04:37.05 | antarus | yeah thats...less fun |
| 04:37.23 | antarus | root-owned keytabs is one horrible insecure way ;p |
| 04:37.38 | impl | hah |
| 04:37.41 | summatusmentis | antarus: I don't fully understand how the timing out works, does krb talk to the kdc to know when tickets die? |
| 04:37.44 | zooko | impl: thanks for the feedback. |
| 04:37.56 | antarus | summatusmentis: no the tickets have an end life in them, iirc |
| 04:37.57 | impl | zooko: oh, I meant to add -- I *do* like the ideas though |
| 04:38.03 | impl | They look fun and useful. |
| 04:38.13 | summatusmentis | antarus: alright, that's kind of what I thought |
| 04:40.20 | antarus | too much irc for tonight |
| 04:40.21 | antarus | wanders off |
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| 04:42.55 | antarus | I leave you all with a reason to visit Japan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqPVYKNJ0UA |
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| 04:44.47 | anothy_x | the computer has gone to sleep, but not the user? ;-) |
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| 04:45.11 | summatusmentis | >_> |
| 04:47.03 | summatusmentis | !countdown |
| 04:47.03 | socinfo | Error: "countdown" is not a valid command. |
| 04:47.33 | summatusmentis | !timeline |
| 04:47.34 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 04:47.36 | zooko | impl: thankjs! |
| 04:47.53 | zooko | I'm too sleepy to work on it more now, but we'll get back to it soon. |
| 04:48.44 | impl | zooko: :) |
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| 05:59.01 | Kraln | man |
| 05:59.05 | Kraln | I can't wait to see who gets approved |
| 06:00.13 | Huy | hi |
| 06:00.46 | Huy | do we have any XML pro here ? |
| 06:01.41 | cjhopman | yes, my time will cost you $100/ hour. how can i help. |
| 06:01.49 | straszheim | like an MCXE? |
| 06:02.14 | cjhopman | jk, i don't know xml... but lol at mcxe |
| 06:02.28 | impl | I know a bit, but there's always #xml |
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| 06:05.05 | Huy | cjhopman: do you have any document teach how to design xsd ? |
| 06:05.30 | Huy | best practice, when use attr, when element, naming convention... |
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| 06:07.26 | cjhopman | [01:02] <cjhopman> jk, i don't know xml... |
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| 06:07.59 | Huy | cjhopman: T__T |
| 06:08.09 | Huy | jump #xml |
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| 06:30.32 | bhy | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:30.38 | bhy | oops |
| 06:31.08 | bhy | what's wrong with twitter? |
| 06:31.38 | ojwb | don't get me started! |
| 06:32.19 | joshp | only twits can organize their thoughts in 120 chars! |
| 06:33.03 | ojwb | keeps thinking of Fermat's last tweet... |
| 06:34.20 | bhy | seems twitter returned to an old time? ah? twitter time machine? |
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| 06:35.46 | bhy | all the new tweets disappered, my status got back to the tweets 22 hours ago! |
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| 06:37.44 | ojwb | would suggest asking twitter via whatever support channels they have, rather than on #gsoc |
| 06:38.41 | bhy | indeed :) |
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| 06:39.53 | bhy | don't know whether twitter has a offical channel on freenode - tried #twitter but it is not the offical channel |
| 06:39.53 | isforinsects | joshp: luckily there are 140 characters available to us |
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| 06:53.54 | chunmun | ping: room |
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| 08:24.41 | spectie | mornin' all |
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| 08:48.07 | kblin | hmm, maybe IBM isn't that bad after all |
| 08:48.20 | kblin | or Lenovo, these days |
| 08:51.18 | spectie | oh ? |
| 08:51.28 | spectie | my sister has a thinkpad |
| 08:51.34 | spectie | she calls it stinkpad... weirdo |
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| 10:20.16 | mib_0xd40f4l | hi |
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| 11:00.24 | jdkav | hi gusy |
| 11:00.27 | jdkav | hi guys |
| 11:01.05 | jdkav | i have a query to e asked |
| 11:01.11 | spectie | hi |
| 11:01.13 | spectie | shoot |
| 11:01.47 | jdkav | which organizations will be looking for python based applications |
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| 11:03.07 | jdkav | spectie: which organizations will be looking for python based applications |
| 11:03.31 | spectie | jdkav, the list of organisations isn't published yet |
| 11:03.41 | spectie | it will probably be published tomorrow or the day after |
| 11:03.56 | jdkav | i know but still an idea |
| 11:04.18 | lynxlynxlynx | look at previous year's orgs |
| 11:04.28 | spectie | have a look at the list of 'mentors by lang' |
| 11:04.30 | spectie | and orgs by lang |
| 11:04.31 | spectie | !orgbylang |
| 11:04.32 | lynxlynxlynx | also, I bet python will be looking for such things |
| 11:04.32 | socinfo | "orgbylang" is http://eflow.org/wiki/index.php?Mentors_by_language |
| 11:04.58 | jdkav | no python will be looking basically to enhance thier versions |
| 11:05.06 | lynxlynxlynx | nice page |
| 11:08.31 | kblin | ack |
| 11:08.46 | kblin | kicks python |
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| 11:09.11 | jdkav | any python guy here??? |
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| 11:10.11 | ThomasWaldmann | jdkav: if moin gets accepted, we'll do stuff in python |
| 11:10.52 | kblin | same here, both WorldForge and Samba have python-based project ideas |
| 11:11.11 | kloeri | Exherbo also have a few ideas that can be implemented in python |
| 11:11.25 | kloeri | should be lots of organisations like that I guess |
| 11:11.36 | jdkav | ThomasWaldmann: how about application of python over a network |
| 11:11.38 | jdkav | ??? |
| 11:12.04 | jdkav | http://eflow.org/wiki/index.php?Mentors_by_language |
| 11:12.23 | ThomasWaldmann | the network stuff of moin already works since a while :D |
| 11:13.10 | jdkav | thats good Thomas but i have got diffrent |
| 11:13.31 | kloeri | one or two of the Exherbo ideas involves writing some network code from scratch using python or whatever the preference might be |
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| 11:14.08 | jdkav | the network code for detection of some external drives |
| 11:14.12 | jdkav | ??? |
| 11:14.16 | jdkav | over a node |
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| 11:14.53 | ajuonline | oYoOyO! |
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| 11:40.58 | kblin | crap, crap, crap |
| 11:41.14 | scorche | ? |
| 11:41.17 | kblin | I hate bad upgrade docs when APIs changed alot |
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| 11:41.47 | kblin | SQLAlchemy killed the common functions (like count(), max() and the like) from their Query object |
| 11:42.13 | kblin | they fail to mention that in their upgrade docs, and of course don't offer alternatives |
| 11:42.50 | kblin | it seems like there's some way to do this via issuing a different statement, but I can't find an example of that to wrap my head around this |
| 11:43.00 | thebolt | hehe.. nice :) |
| 11:43.30 | kblin | I just want one stupid example of the SQLAlchemy 0.5.x way of doing a "get the number of rows in table x" query |
| 11:44.28 | kblin | because I'm currently getting the very helpful "TypeError: 'function' object is unsubscriptable" |
| 11:44.34 | spectie | D: |
| 11:44.40 | spectie | suck |
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| 11:50.54 | ajuonline | is sleepy |
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| 11:55.28 | kblin | hm, getting there... |
| 11:55.45 | kblin | found a google groups post complaining about the exact same thing |
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| 12:33.04 | thiagoss | kblin: yourquery.count() doesn't work ? (a liitle late perhaps) |
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| 12:36.22 | thiagoss | !timeline |
| 12:36.22 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 12:40.21 | kblin | thiagoss: actually, count() is one of the few things still working. bad example, max, sum and avg broke |
| 12:41.38 | thiagoss | kblin: really? I'm into a project using sqlalchemy, and I'd be needing those in a few weeks. |
| 12:42.23 | thiagoss | well, we can always contribute killing boogs |
| 12:43.42 | kblin | thiagoss: no, seems like all you actually need is to fix docs |
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| 12:44.01 | thiagoss | easier :) |
| 12:44.28 | thiagoss | gotta go, classes in 15min. cya |
| 12:44.36 | kblin | and it's not in the 0.4 to 0.5 migration docs because this little API change was a 0.4.3 to 0.4.4 change |
| 12:44.56 | kblin | thiagoss: I've got it working now, it seems |
| 12:46.23 | kblin | thiagoss: so feel free to bug me in a few weeks if http://groups.google.com/group/sqlalchemy/browse_thread/thread/c9be43803a7fc755 doesn't help |
| 12:46.38 | thiagoss | kblin: good! I will if needed |
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| 12:52.21 | phrozn | tomorrows the big day. accepted mentors are disclosed! |
| 12:53.24 | lynxlynxlynx | yep |
| 12:54.21 | kblin | that's not the big day.. the big day is when the accepted students are notified :) |
| 12:54.39 | phrozn | that too!! :D |
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| 12:57.26 | lynxlynxlynx | depends on whether you're a mentor or a student |
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| 12:58.11 | phrozn | student here |
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| 12:58.56 | aghisla | the big day is when your code runs |
| 13:00.23 | phrozn | or when you learn something |
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| 13:00.38 | aghisla | phrozn: too |
| 13:00.44 | aghisla | like how to refactor |
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| 13:00.51 | kloeri | lots of big days :) |
| 13:01.02 | phrozn | :0 yeah |
| 13:01.11 | ajuonline | when you learn how to breathe? |
| 13:01.19 | aghisla | see "Refactoring" of martin fowler. second only to the art of unix programming IMHO |
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| 13:02.00 | aghisla | goes refactoring |
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| 13:40.01 | PeepOle | Hi lut4rp |
| 13:40.14 | lut4rp | hi PeepOle |
| 13:40.25 | PeepOle | You had AIR 114? |
| 13:40.35 | lut4rp | ? |
| 13:40.51 | PeepOle | I am looking at your linkedin profile :) |
| 13:41.08 | lut4rp | oh. |
| 13:41.09 | lut4rp | lol |
| 13:41.11 | PeepOle | Oh shit, got it, thats for Olympiad |
| 13:41.12 | lut4rp | yeah, I did :) |
| 13:41.19 | lut4rp | err, yeah. |
| 13:41.23 | lut4rp | what did you think? |
| 13:41.24 | PeepOle | I was thinking AIEEE |
| 13:41.28 | lut4rp | DUDE. |
| 13:41.29 | lut4rp | NO. |
| 13:41.31 | sid0 | lut4rp: lol |
| 13:41.39 | lut4rp | sid0, SRSLY. |
| 13:41.40 | sid0 | got AIR 4 in that :P |
| 13:41.47 | lut4rp | people are destroying my image |
| 13:41.57 | PeepOle | sorry sorry |
| 13:41.59 | lut4rp | :P |
| 13:42.17 | PeepOle | I am gonna research sid0 now :) |
| 13:42.25 | sid0 | ... |
| 13:42.44 | lut4rp | stalker. |
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| 13:43.21 | lut4rp | recalls "studying" till class 10th. |
| 13:43.35 | PeepOle | You ain't that "stalikng" material , lut4rp |
| 13:43.47 | lut4rp | heh |
| 13:43.52 | lut4rp | PeepOle, sid0 is. |
| 13:44.01 | sid0 | ... |
| 13:44.36 | PeepOle | Oh MY GOD, I just found sid0's house on Google Maps , hehe |
| 13:44.43 | PeepOle | am I a stalker or what ?? |
| 13:44.46 | PeepOle | :D |
| 13:44.59 | sid0 | what |
| 13:45.14 | PeepOle | what? |
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| 13:45.25 | sid0 | how did you find it |
| 13:45.45 | PeepOle | I am from FBI. |
| 13:45.56 | sid0 | very funny |
| 13:45.59 | sid0 | I'm serious |
| 13:47.04 | PeepOle | sid0: Hey man. Don't get upset. |
| 13:47.16 | sid0 | PeepOle: seriously -- PM me |
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| 13:47.46 | PeepOle | ok |
| 13:48.21 | scorche | ... |
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| 13:48.31 | WinterMute | morning |
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| 13:48.59 | _dr | pretty hard to find... ;) |
| 13:49.05 | sid0 | scorche: apologies :) |
| 13:49.30 | scorche | sid0: no apologies need to come from you.... |
| 13:49.30 | PeepOle | sid0: :/ |
| 13:49.59 | ajuonline | whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhats up! |
| 13:50.12 | ajuonline | :P |
| 13:50.21 | sulabh_m | sid0 : is it ur project Thunderbird integration into Windows Vista/Windows Search indexer |
| 13:50.27 | sid0 | yes |
| 13:50.40 | ajuonline | sulabh_m: hola, welcome mto the same time of the year again ;) |
| 13:50.53 | sulabh_m | hehe, hello ajuonline |
| 13:50.56 | CuriousKel | Hi, I thought I read on the FAQ that the list of Mentoring Organizations will be announced today? 17 march |
| 13:51.05 | sid0 | 18th |
| 13:51.09 | scorche | !timeline |
| 13:51.10 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 13:51.32 | PeepOle | after 1 day, 5 hours, 8 minutes and 37 seconds until Wednesday, March 18, 2009 at 7:00:00 PM |
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| 13:52.27 | CuriousKel | ok thanks. |
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| 13:55.06 | PeepOle | omg, I just realised something. Oh.... |
| 13:55.29 | lut4rp | what. |
| 13:55.43 | PeepOle | bad bad |
| 13:55.47 | PeepOle | :( |
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| 14:05.57 | kitallis | waves to lut4rp |
| 14:06.16 | lut4rp | waves back to killerfox|away |
| 14:06.18 | lut4rp | oops |
| 14:06.22 | kitallis | lol |
| 14:06.26 | lut4rp | waves back to kitallis anyway |
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| 14:42.29 | kblin | there |
| 14:42.39 | kblin | gets back to university work |
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| 14:42.56 | mlankhorst | mm |
| 14:43.06 | mlankhorst | kblin: looks like I'm getting a student this year :> |
| 14:43.11 | erwan_taf | heya |
| 14:43.23 | ajuonline | mlankhorst: for gsoc? |
| 14:43.24 | erwan_taf | gsoc website sounds down :( |
| 14:43.31 | mlankhorst | ajuonline: yeah |
| 14:44.03 | ajuonline | mlankhorst: what project? |
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| 14:45.57 | kblin | mlankhorst: I thought you were going to apply yourself? |
| 14:46.29 | summatusmentis | http://lifehacker.com/5171050/opt-out-of-googles-targeted-ads |
| 14:46.34 | summatusmentis | that's so cool |
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| 14:48.19 | mlankhorst | kblin: yeah but I have to mentor the directshow/gstreamer one :/ |
| 14:48.31 | pygi | hi |
| 14:48.33 | mlankhorst | did lots of work on that last year |
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| 15:12.35 | borja | morning all |
| 15:12.47 | Caseus | Morning! |
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| 15:13.34 | Ori_B | good morning. |
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| 15:18.52 | alexstre^ | !next |
| 15:18.52 | socinfo | "next" is Accepted mentoring organations are announced on March 18 at ~12 noon PDT / 19:00 UTC |
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| 15:37.13 | schumaml | "organations" |
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| 15:37.21 | codestr0m | some general feedback.. compared to other or last years projects.. does our ideas page look ok? http://www.osunix.org/docs/DOC-1022 |
| 15:37.51 | spectie | looks good codestr0m |
| 15:38.26 | codestr0m | spectie: thanks.. I saw the comment about NLTK and thought to get a 2nd opinion |
| 15:38.40 | spectie | which comment about NLTK ? |
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| 15:38.52 | codestr0m | spectie: on the google groups list |
| 15:39.06 | spectie | gsoc-discuss ? |
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| 15:39.40 | codestr0m | abbreviated yes |
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| 15:40.20 | spectie | ah |
| 15:40.31 | spectie | their list looks kind of like our list |
| 15:40.34 | spectie | in terms of content |
| 15:40.36 | spectie | :) |
| 15:40.44 | spectie | we have more description though |
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| 15:43.12 | homunq | Um, is it still possible to change our org name? not linkid. Someone just pointed out that we should be "Sugarlabs educational platform (member of SFC)" rather than just "Sugarlabs (member of SFC)" so that more people will find us. |
| 15:43.51 | spectie | hey homunq |
| 15:44.18 | homunq | Also, I just added a quick "I'm interested, what next?" text at the top of our project ideas page ( http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/ProjectIdeas ) |
| 15:44.23 | homunq | hey spectie |
| 15:45.18 | schumaml | hm... most of our entries are described much better than the nltk ones, with one exception |
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| 15:46.46 | scorche|sh | homunq: nope...everything is static fornow, though you will likely be able to change it once accepted |
| 15:47.30 | homunq | As long as we can change it then, that's fine. |
| 15:48.04 | kblin | scorche|sh: looks like my thinkpad can be fixed for less than the price of a new system after all |
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| 15:51.28 | kblin | so I don't need to go look for a new box after all |
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| 15:51.56 | scorche|sh | kblin: still a large amount though?....was it just the cable? |
| 15:52.14 | kblin | nope. it's the display |
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| 15:53.50 | kblin | scorche|sh: the repair shop called me and.. strongly suggested to get the extended warranty before they go and look at the display |
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| 15:54.09 | kblin | so I did, and now the broken display is a warranty repair |
| 15:54.17 | mlankhorst | hehe |
| 15:54.22 | mlankhorst | how much did it cost you? |
| 15:54.36 | kblin | so all I paid was the extended warranty for ~ 115 EUR |
| 15:54.48 | kblin | and I still have some more months of warranty |
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| 15:56.01 | jelmer | hi Kai |
| 15:56.03 | kblin | of course that kind of service gives me a strong incentive to get my next laptop at the same place. |
| 15:56.15 | kblin | hi jelmer |
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| 15:57.32 | thebolt|away | kblin: IBM helped me in similar ways when the charging circuit of my laptop was broken.. |
| 15:58.06 | thebolt|away | kblin: i had 3 years warranty, still plenty of time left.. however i couldn't know if it was the battery or charging circuit and battery is only 1 year warranty |
| 15:58.23 | DaveyJoe | Hey guys, is there much scope for design/interface/front-end engineering work in GSOC? |
| 15:58.40 | mlankhorst | I don't think gsoc itself is taking students |
| 15:58.56 | thebolt|away | kblin: so they themselves suggested sending it in without any battery (in which case they would use one of their known-to-work ones) and if it worked i wouldn't be charged the "fee for sending in stuff not under warranty" ;) |
| 15:59.40 | homunq | DaveyJoe: there are certainly projects interested in that work |
| 16:00.10 | homunq | such as <pimp> Sugarlabs Educational Platform, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/ProjectIdeas </pimp> |
| 16:00.20 | DaveyJoe | homunq: Great, thanks for the link |
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| 16:07.08 | homunq | DaveyJoe: The "versioned datastore", "translate activity", and basically all the stand-alone ideas, are all UI-heavy. |
| 16:07.43 | DaveyJoe | homunq: ta |
| 16:08.40 | homunq | Also "submenu support" and "graphical toolkit" (especially the thing about discoverable keyboard shortcuts). |
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| 16:15.58 | aghisla|away | bye all see you next week! |
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| 16:18.12 | zooko | DaveyJoe: My project has a GUI idea on our Ideas page, too. Join #tahoe if interested. |
| 16:19.03 | fivedollar | hi |
| 16:19.29 | DaveyJoe | zooko: Thanks guys I'll wait for the list of projects to come out tomorrow and take a look through them then :) |
| 16:19.44 | fivedollar | ohman, tomorrow is too long to wait |
| 16:19.56 | fivedollar | ;) |
| 16:20.29 | schumaml | DaveyJoe: what's you background in this topic? |
| 16:22.21 | DaveyJoe | schumaml: I'll leave the interviews until later ;) |
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| 16:30.51 | luke-jr | too late to apply as a mentoring org? |
| 16:31.26 | borja | luke-jr: yes |
| 16:31.29 | borja | !timeline |
| 16:31.29 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 16:31.47 | luke-jr | oh well, that sucks :< |
| 16:32.11 | kblin | try next year |
| 16:32.16 | luke-jr | on another topic, why is GSoC biased toward only accepting students willing to be scammed by the college system? |
| 16:32.31 | kblin | huh? |
| 16:32.49 | luke-jr | the FAQ said students must be enrolled in a college to participate |
| 16:32.52 | luke-jr | colleges are just a scam |
| 16:33.02 | kblin | ... |
| 16:33.06 | borja | o.O |
| 16:33.36 | luke-jr | at least for computer science |
| 16:33.46 | luke-jr | better off studying on ones own than going to a college |
| 16:33.57 | kblin | you don't need to study comp-sci to participate |
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| 16:34.15 | *** join/#gsoc sonugautam (n=sonugaut@59.94.255.42) |
| 16:34.19 | zacharyp | college is what you make of it. There's plenty of knowledge to be gained in a good program. And humanity has been learning from their peers and elders for a long time successfully |
| 16:34.22 | luke-jr | kblin: but it sounds like students are not allowed to participate unless they're paying a college |
| 16:34.35 | kblin | also, I very much doubt that most people will manage to teach themselves advanced maths required for algorithms |
| 16:34.51 | sonugautam | hi |
| 16:34.56 | luke-jr | zacharyp: peers and elders exist without paying a college |
| 16:34.58 | kblin | luke-jr: you got this the wrong way around in any case |
| 16:35.07 | sonugautam | sonu from india |
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| 16:35.34 | easwar | lo sonugautam , /join ##gsoc-india |
| 16:35.39 | sonugautam | some one the want to cha t with me |
| 16:35.45 | luke-jr | … |
| 16:35.59 | kblin | luke-jr: the program is targeting people who're currently enrolled at a college/university/whatever |
| 16:36.58 | kblin | luke-jr: so while you're paying tuition for your education anyway, you can spend your vacation work on open source instead of e.g. working at the local fast food joint flipping burgers |
| 16:37.32 | kblin | enrolling at a college just to participate in gsoc sounds like a bad idea |
| 16:39.05 | *** join/#gsoc PulpFictionPunja (n=relativi@122.173.29.30) |
| 16:39.08 | luke-jr | kblin: my point is that is discriminates against students studying in other ways |
| 16:39.20 | luke-jr | and in the case of computers, other ways are superior |
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| 16:39.40 | kblin | luke-jr: I disagree, on both counts |
| 16:39.45 | _dr | true |
| 16:40.01 | kblin | !google |
| 16:40.01 | socinfo | "google" is not the cosmic cash machine people think it is. |
| 16:40.06 | _dr | reading the bc(1) manpage won't replace 3 years of math lectures |
| 16:40.24 | xorAxAx | !nortel |
| 16:40.25 | socinfo | Error: "nortel" is not a valid command. |
| 16:40.40 | xorAxAx | _dr: certainly depends on the university |
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| 16:40.54 | xorAxAx | here in germany you have 200 peeps per math lecture |
| 16:40.58 | kblin | luke-jr: so, as the factoid about google says, the cash being limited, there needs to be some way to filter |
| 16:41.03 | _dr | xorAxAx: i know :) |
| 16:41.18 | luke-jr | kblin: uh, the first point is not an opinion.. it is discriminating against non-college students by policy of filtering them |
| 16:41.26 | _dr | more like 200 enroled and 10 in course |
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| 16:41.42 | luke-jr | so you mean it's Google's right to discriminate. perhaps it is. |
| 16:41.43 | xorAxAx | luke-jr: yeah, its some kind of socioeconomic barrier |
| 16:42.00 | kblin | luke-jr: there is one ( in numbers 1) person running this program for google |
| 16:42.14 | luke-jr | :o |
| 16:42.16 | xorAxAx | yeah, i think we shouldnt complain |
| 16:42.34 | kblin | luke-jr: being enrolled at a college is more easily verifyable than "but I currently teach myself comp-sci, honest!" |
| 16:42.55 | borja | luke-jr: discrimination is a very loaded term; by your rationale, hospitals who don't hire doctors without an MD from an accredited university are "discriminating" against people who are simply passionate about medicine |
| 16:43.56 | schumaml | btw, is this discussion about "college" or "being enrolled"? |
| 16:43.56 | PulpFictionPunja | i second borja. |
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| 16:43.56 | PulpFictionPunja | there has to be some sort of verification about that |
| 16:43.57 | kloeri | self-taught MDs are awesome! |
| 16:44.15 | _dr | mostly hypochondriacs, tho |
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| 16:44.31 | ajuonline | is someone pissed of by his/her country's education system? /college? |
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| 16:44.51 | kblin | luke-jr: so unless you can come up with a way to quickly verify student-status without some proof of enrollment, I think google's going to keep the system they have |
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| 16:45.27 | xorAxAx | ajuonline: i think most people on the world should be :) |
| 16:45.34 | PulpFictionPunja | does google ask for some proof? i read in the FAQ that they 'might' |
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| 16:45.42 | xorAxAx | education is the most important factor for creation of value |
| 16:45.44 | schumaml | "individual enrolled in or accepted into an accredited institution including (but not necessarily limited to) colleges, universities, masters programs, PhD programs and undergraduate programs" |
| 16:45.57 | schumaml | PulpFictionPunja: read that as "do" |
| 16:45.59 | kblin | PulpFictionPunja: you certainly need some proof of enrollment |
| 16:46.13 | ajuonline | xorAxAx: yes, I might as well be with that. But I am not pissed off by google or gsoc rules. |
| 16:46.14 | easwar | lo PulpFictionPunja |
| 16:46.22 | xorAxAx | ajuonline: yeah, wrong place to change this |
| 16:46.37 | ajuonline | xorAxAx: i dont understand that point. |
| 16:46.37 | xorAxAx | you need to talk to schools |
| 16:46.44 | ajuonline | you dont need gsoc to participate in FOSS. |
| 16:46.47 | xorAxAx | ajuonline: i mean, google is not the evil guy in the school problem |
| 16:46.58 | ajuonline | like someone says, you dont need college to work on CS. |
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| 16:47.35 | kblin | xorAxAx: I'm not pissed of at my education system |
| 16:47.55 | kblin | xorAxAx: of course there's always something that can be improved, but it's working pretty well for me |
| 16:48.07 | ajuonline | not me as well |
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| 16:48.20 | kitallis | I am |
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| 16:49.01 | fivedollar | i like my education system, but not necessarily my university |
| 16:49.45 | kblin | anyway, I guess I explained why GSoC works the way it does |
| 16:49.45 | fivedollar | or at least my university's CS department |
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| 16:50.10 | kblin | and now I need to brutally murder some mushrooms for dinner, bbiaf |
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| 16:52.58 | ajuonline | kblin: send some across. |
| 16:53.12 | ajuonline | whenever someone talks about food. i get hungry. no matter if I just had food. |
| 16:53.37 | luke-jr | kblin: well, I guess I was just looking at it from a different perspective |
| 16:54.06 | spectie | greetings |
| 16:54.09 | luke-jr | being on the project side, I see it more as if Google is funding development of open source software |
| 16:54.24 | *** join/#gsoc gaveen_ (n=gaveen@124.43.42.162) |
| 16:54.28 | luke-jr | but I guess there's another side to it that needs students to be verified |
| 16:55.59 | ajuonline | luke-jr: did you miss my point? you dont really need gsoc, to work on foss either. |
| 16:56.08 | ajuonline | !google |
| 16:56.08 | socinfo | "google" is not the cosmic cash machine people think it is. |
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| 16:57.09 | DanParker | :D |
| 16:57.30 | danderson | what was this huge troll about? |
| 16:57.32 | anothy_x | shame, that. |
| 16:57.42 | danderson | A non-student ranting about how unfair SoC is? |
| 16:57.49 | danderson | if so: life is unfair, get over it |
| 16:58.02 | danderson | and, as many people have said, cash flow is limited, so filtering has to be applied |
| 16:58.06 | lh | borja: you have mail |
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| 16:58.31 | danderson | also, the idea of summer of code specifically originated as an answer to the problem: "smart students are spending their summers flipping burgers to pay rent. We should fix this." |
| 16:58.43 | borja | checks |
| 16:58.49 | ArthurLiu | lh, we have some posters here : http://wiki.debian.org/SummerOfCode2009#Promotion |
| 16:58.55 | danderson | note: not to solve world hunger or ensure that the unemployment rate reaches 0% |
| 16:59.40 | borja | lh: sure, count me in |
| 16:59.45 | borja | is all about spreadin' the love |
| 17:00.05 | ArthurLiu | Debian making promotional material, Pigs flying, hell freezing over, cats and dogs... :) |
| 17:00.22 | spectie | greetings everyone |
| 17:00.24 | spectie | kaixo borja |
| 17:00.25 | kblin | luke-jr: well, from a project point of view, you're free to spend the money your project is getting to fund people other than students |
| 17:00.41 | kloeri | I could use a solution to the world hunger problem about now.. I nice big steak would be good :) |
| 17:00.57 | borja | aupa spectie |
| 17:01.40 | lh | borja: awesome thank you |
| 17:02.16 | homunq | "open source needs more $" is a bigger problem... if there's a solution, it is not Google's big heart and wallet, but something like dominant assurance contracts. If you can convince all users to just register, you can set up a payment structure where it is in their simple self-interest to give you money - totalling ((worth to average user) * sqrt(number of users) / 2) |
| 17:02.40 | homunq | </offtopic> |
| 17:02.43 | spectie | hah |
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| 17:04.09 | borja | lh: no prob |
| 17:04.11 | luke-jr | homunq: any ideas for games? ☺ |
| 17:04.16 | homunq | ("worth" is value of future improvements, not existing product - it's in nobody's pure rational self interest to pay for that) |
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| 17:05.14 | homunq | luke-jr: in my org? Educational games are not a high priority, but we would consider them. You come up with your own ideas, though. |
| 17:05.38 | kblin | homunq: I don't think all of OpenSource's problems can be magically solved by dumping cash on them :) |
| 17:05.57 | ArthurLiu | kblin, ubuntu ? just kidding :) |
| 17:06.12 | luke-jr | Armagetron Advanced's biggest problem is lack of developer time due to us working jobs ;) |
| 17:06.17 | homunq | me neither. Note "if there's a solution". If the problem is mis-stated, there is no solution. :) |
| 17:06.33 | kblin | some could be solved by dumping meteorites on some patent trolls |
| 17:06.52 | homunq | ducks |
| 17:07.00 | kblin | luke-jr: sounds familiar |
| 17:07.20 | kloeri | somebody should make that into a game :) |
| 17:07.24 | kitallis | Armagetron is uber cool |
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| 17:07.37 | kblin | homunq: if you're not living in texas, you're pretty safe, I guess |
| 17:07.43 | luke-jr | kloeri: eh, it *is* a game.. O.o |
| 17:08.06 | kblin | luke-jr: dropping huge stones on patent trolls? |
| 17:08.11 | kblin | url? |
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| 17:08.14 | kblin | :) |
| 17:08.16 | luke-jr | no, Armagetron |
| 17:08.20 | kloeri | I don't know of any game exactly like that |
| 17:08.26 | luke-jr | I missed your first line |
| 17:08.32 | kloeri | I wasn't talking about armagetron though |
| 17:09.20 | kloeri | would be silly saying somebody should make a game exactly like $another open source game :p |
| 17:09.37 | z4chh | org list comes out tomorrow :DDD |
| 17:09.54 | kitallis | yep |
| 17:10.10 | z4chh | im to excited, i cant sleep, eat, think o_o |
| 17:10.28 | kitallis | well, me too, i'm kinda low on skill, so hehe |
| 17:10.32 | z4chh | not really, but it's interesting to see if your fav org got in |
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| 17:11.15 | z4chh | will the list be released at like midnight? >.< |
| 17:11.47 | grogs987 | wish i didn't have so much work to do, will make it hard to actually find a lot about the orgs i apply for |
| 17:11.56 | homunq | ~timeline |
| 17:12.01 | homunq | !timeline |
| 17:12.02 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 17:12.14 | homunq | z4chh: your answer is there |
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| 17:12.25 | kitallis | i hope they aren't boring like an xml parser in factor with C bindings |
| 17:12.30 | kitallis | lol |
| 17:12.33 | z4chh | ahh it does say the time |
| 17:12.59 | z4chh | that's to long to wait! |
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| 17:13.31 | z4chh | i can't wait that long guys :( |
| 17:13.43 | kitallis | knows everything, so there's no point him living a life as everything is NULL for him |
| 17:13.52 | *** part/#gsoc bn2vs (n=[RTS]BN+@d5153882A.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:13.54 | kitallis | suicides. |
| 17:14.05 | *** join/#gsoc bn2vs (n=[RTS]BN+@d5153882A.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:14.15 | z4chh | kitallis, no suicide until gsoc is over o_o |
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| 17:14.30 | kitallis | I knew you were gonna say that |
| 17:14.33 | kitallis | I know everyhtin |
| 17:14.50 | kitallis | i'm not gonna be accepted, i know that too |
| 17:14.52 | grogs987 | except modesty |
| 17:14.53 | luke-jr | … |
| 17:15.20 | kitallis | luke-jr: why are you making solid colored boxes? |
| 17:16.02 | luke-jr | kitallis: try fixing your IRC client ☺ |
| 17:16.17 | kitallis | mIRC needs no fixing |
| 17:16.24 | luke-jr | true, mIRC just needs deleting |
| 17:16.29 | *** join/#gsoc ahuillet (n=ahuillet@92.152.72-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 17:16.37 | luke-jr | ;) |
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| 17:16.58 | kitallis | you want me to log into freeBSD and install Irssi? |
| 17:17.02 | _dr | mirc should apply to gsoc for linux porting |
| 17:17.14 | z4chh | ewww |
| 17:17.16 | ArthurLiu | _dr, mirc is not free software |
| 17:17.21 | kitallis | yea |
| 17:17.25 | z4chh | mirc needs to die |
| 17:17.26 | kitallis | so isn't Xchat |
| 17:17.30 | kitallis | but |
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| 17:17.35 | desu | xchat is |
| 17:17.37 | luke-jr | Xchat is |
| 17:17.37 | _dr | maybe not, but it's mirc |
| 17:17.39 | PulpFictionPunja | xchat is paid on windows only |
| 17:17.43 | luke-jr | PulpFictionPunja: still Free |
| 17:17.45 | kitallis | xchatis paid ion win |
| 17:17.46 | z4chh | i don't know about you but i got xchat for free on my arch lappy >.< |
| 17:17.47 | ArthurLiu | the official windows port is problematic |
| 17:17.54 | ArthurLiu | but it's still dfsg |
| 17:17.55 | luke-jr | Free has nothing to do with whether you pay for it or not |
| 17:17.58 | desu | and mirc doesn't do utf-8. it needs to die. |
| 17:17.59 | kitallis | so mirc can get its oss clone |
| 17:18.05 | PulpFictionPunja | yes, the developer says its too time consuming to make win32 ports |
| 17:18.05 | kitallis | not a clone :) |
| 17:18.09 | zooko | homunq: I like the way you think! Open Source/Free Software has severe limitations, and philanthropy is not a scalable solution. |
| 17:18.10 | PulpFictionPunja | u r free to do that if u want |
| 17:18.11 | jelmer | hey luke-jr :-) |
| 17:18.17 | luke-jr | PulpFictionPunja: it really is, in general ☺ |
| 17:18.18 | ArthurLiu | there's a free build though Y-Chat :) |
| 17:18.20 | luke-jr | hey jelmer |
| 17:18.23 | z4chh | mirc scripting was my first language o.o |
| 17:18.30 | kitallis | omfg |
| 17:18.41 | jelmer | luke-jr: Are you mentoring / participating for a project ? |
| 17:18.44 | _dr | it gave me eye cancer |
| 17:18.54 | luke-jr | jelmer: I wanted to mentor, but missed the deadline it seems |
| 17:19.13 | ArthurLiu | deadline for mentors oO |
| 17:19.23 | kitallis | mIRC is written in ? |
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| 17:19.33 | luke-jr | though I did get a PM from a student saying working on my project would be a dream for them XD |
| 17:19.44 | desu | luke-jr: which project? |
| 17:19.49 | luke-jr | desu: Armagetron Advanced |
| 17:19.54 | desu | o... |
| 17:19.57 | z4chh | eh? |
| 17:20.06 | z4chh | that sounds...advanced |
| 17:20.12 | desu | nod-nods |
| 17:20.39 | luke-jr | lol |
| 17:20.43 | kitallis | it is |
| 17:20.48 | luke-jr | http://armagetronad.net/ |
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| 17:21.25 | PulpFictionPunja | the 3D tron. cool game. |
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| 17:24.39 | z4chh | awww no arch pkg? :D |
| 17:25.13 | kitallis | ahha |
| 17:25.17 | kitallis | arch linux |
| 17:25.19 | kitallis | ahha |
| 17:25.38 | z4chh | o.o |
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| 17:26.29 | z4chh | im compiling this baby from source |
| 17:26.43 | luke-jr | z4chh: package submissions welcome |
| 17:26.53 | luke-jr | z4chh: can always use more packagers XD |
| 17:26.56 | z4chh | luke-jr, if i like the game :D |
| 17:27.58 | luke-jr | z4chh: trunk has a lot of nicities, but slower FPS |
| 17:28.09 | luke-jr | (like real fonts) |
| 17:28.30 | luke-jr | kinda off-topic here, maybe you should join #Armagetron ;) |
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| 18:25.08 | thiagoss | random question: anyone here ever used net simulator? |
| 18:26.14 | ajuonline | why does that sound familiar |
| 18:27.00 | thiagoss | http://www.isi.edu/nsnam/ns/ helps? |
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| 18:27.46 | prince1600 | hi everyone |
| 18:27.52 | ESphynx | hi prince1600 |
| 18:27.56 | Huy | thiagoss: bosson netsim ? |
| 18:27.57 | disismt | I havve used ns2 |
| 18:28.10 | prince1600 | how are you, ESphynx |
| 18:28.27 | ajay | leaving the room |
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| 18:29.34 | thiagoss | disismt: do you know if it is possible to a node at ns2 implement some logic? Like, a real app running on a virtual network controlled by ns2 ? |
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| 18:31.15 | dmb | hello |
| 18:31.26 | prince1600 | hi |
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| 18:32.35 | ESphynx | i'm great prince1600 :) |
| 18:32.39 | disismt | thiagoss: ns2 is basically all about packets. What app do you want to simulate? |
| 18:32.41 | ESphynx | yurself |
| 18:32.52 | prince1600 | I am very well, thank you |
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| 18:36.27 | thiagoss | disismt: I'd like to simulate some servers serving web services, and a lot of clients accessing them. |
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| 18:37.49 | disismt | thiagoss: I can't help you there. |
| 18:37.55 | thiagoss | disismt: thanks anyway :) |
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| 19:20.20 | sphinxkid | hi all.. |
| 19:20.29 | spectie | hey sphinxkid |
| 19:20.44 | sphinxkid | looking for speech recognition related projects this year.. |
| 19:20.47 | sphinxkid | heard of any? |
| 19:20.55 | spectie | hmm, not that i know of |
| 19:21.03 | spectie | you might look at the list of orgs from last year |
| 19:21.06 | spectie | many will be returning |
| 19:21.09 | spectie | !orgbylang |
| 19:21.10 | socinfo | "orgbylang" is http://eflow.org/wiki/index.php?Mentors_by_language |
| 19:21.20 | spectie | sphinxkid, are you only interested in speech, or in NLP in general ? |
| 19:21.22 | ojwb | or wait a day or so |
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| 19:21.30 | spectie | yeah, or wait around 23 hours ;) |
| 19:21.35 | sphinxkid | spectie: not yet there.. |
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| 19:21.53 | sphinxkid | ah yeah have taken a leave tmrw;-) |
| 19:22.07 | ojwb | it'll still be there the day after |
| 19:22.32 | sphinxkid | yeah.. leave is actually for another reason anyway..;-) |
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| 19:25.35 | sphinxkid | thanks and bye.. see ya day after tmrw;-) |
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| 19:35.32 | brlcad | lh: fun meeting? :) |
| 19:35.43 | brlcad | wb |
| 19:35.48 | lh | brlcad: useful. meetings are always less fun. :) |
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| 19:42.59 | lh | !timeline |
| 19:43.00 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
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| 20:24.23 | bijolianabhi | hi everybody |
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| 20:28.07 | kloeri | hi biliquai |
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| 20:35.17 | codestr0m | impatiently waits 22.5 more hours |
| 20:39.53 | brlcad | codestr0m: would you rather them not take their time and consider everyone in due fairness? :-) as an org, I'd much rather be rejected and know that they took their time carefully considering everyone's application than the alterantives.. |
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| 20:40.43 | Ivanovic | brlcad: exactly |
| 20:40.53 | codestr0m | brlcad: don't get me wrong.. if it's 1 hour or 30 days.. I'm still impatient |
| 20:40.54 | Ivanovic | and i know that lh and the rest will do a good job |
| 20:41.07 | Ivanovic | to be honest i am shocked how fast they get this done |
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| 20:41.23 | r0bby | LOL |
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| 20:41.26 | Ivanovic | just think about the number of orgs to match to the number of available slots, this is *damn hard* |
| 20:41.36 | r0bby | I'm still the second top poster to LH |
| 20:41.39 | Crofton|work | I would guess there are three piles of applications |
| 20:41.41 | *** part/#gsoc djbclark (i=djbclark@pdpc/supporter/base/djbclark) |
| 20:41.42 | r0bby | on the student list |
| 20:41.50 | Crofton|work | 1) Orgs that performed last year |
| 20:41.54 | Crofton|work | 2) New orgs |
| 20:42.02 | Crofton|work | 3) spam applications :) |
| 20:42.03 | kloeri | the obvious solution is just flipping coins :p |
| 20:42.14 | Crofton|work | the New orgs are the tough ones |
| 20:42.28 | codestr0m | kloeri: where's exherbo's ideas page? |
| 20:42.35 | Ivanovic | Crofton|work: and how to decide between "how many for "old orgs" and "new orgs"? |
| 20:42.43 | smtms | Crofton|work, the old orgs aren't tough? |
| 20:42.43 | kloeri | http://dev.exherbo.org/~kloeri/gsoc/ideas.html |
| 20:42.47 | Ivanovic | how many slots that is |
| 20:42.48 | Crofton|work | well, that would be part 2 :) |
| 20:42.52 | r0bby | sword fights and pitch fights |
| 20:42.55 | r0bby | forks* |
| 20:44.16 | Ivanovic | Crofton|work: i think in general it is one pile |
| 20:44.16 | Ivanovic | and from this pile spam is simply deleted |
| 20:44.16 | Crofton|work | interesting |
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| 20:44.16 | Crofton|work | I would be somewhat biased to orgs with good track records |
| 20:44.16 | homunq | Also note that there are edge cases. For instance, the code and developers that were in OLPC last year, this year are in OLPC or Sugarlabs or, in many cases, both. And both are applying. |
| 20:44.17 | Ivanovic | and from this one pile you "rate" based on the application, the project, the (if applyable) former behaviour, ... |
| 20:44.17 | ojwb | lh said there were no spam apps this year |
| 20:44.24 | Crofton|work | urg |
| 20:44.33 | Crofton|work | that is a lot of good apps then |
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| 20:44.41 | Ivanovic | ojwb: i am not sure about the "no", it is at least a clear smaller number of spam apps than before |
| 20:44.41 | ojwb | but presumably there are some which are sufficiently low quality to be easy to say no to |
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| 20:44.50 | homunq | so sugarlabs is technically a new org, but in practical terms has at least some track record to look back to. |
| 20:45.19 | brlcad | hm, if you count there being approximately 24 working hours from submission to announcement with 400 apps, that'd be at most approximately 3min36sec to review and discuss each org |
| 20:45.20 | Crofton|work | just being accepted with one slot would be awesome for us |
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| 20:45.34 | Ivanovic | Crofton|work: i think if you get in, you at least get two slots |
| 20:45.37 | kloeri | the applications are supposed to be better this year which is definitely good |
| 20:45.42 | ojwb | "<lh> ojwb: and that is also includign total spam apps. this year, no spam." |
| 20:45.46 | Ivanovic | unless you say "hey, we can only handle one" |
| 20:45.49 | brlcad | but then take the pareto principle and bell curve behavior, approx 1/3 are quick reject and 1/3 are quick accept, leaving about 80 apps taking up most of the discussion time |
| 20:45.58 | lh | ojwb: there were two duplicates |
| 20:46.00 | Crofton|work | :) |
| 20:46.17 | brlcad | which is about 15 min per org that requires discussion .. interesting |
| 20:46.52 | kloeri | one of the duplicates was mine but the only answer I got when I asked about it in here was "yeah, you can't delete it" :) |
| 20:47.15 | homunq | Last year, there were 1250 slots. There are also several new orgs which have something special to recommend them - instead of pimping my org again as an example, I'd imagine that at least one android-targeted org will get in this year. |
| 20:47.37 | Crofton|work | We can run Android on the Beagle Board |
| 20:47.41 | homunq | So that means that there are going to be, at the very least, at least 300 hard "no" decisions. |
| 20:48.01 | Crofton|work | but, I could not promise that we would end up with a student proposal on Android for example |
| 20:48.02 | brlcad | course none of that takes into account disruptions and effective business productivity into account (i.e., the 30/70 metric) |
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| 20:48.29 | Crofton|work | fascinating stuff |
| 20:49.18 | homunq | It is much easier to say "yes" than "no", when there is any reason for doubt. A reduced number of slots means a harder job. |
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| 20:50.31 | codestr0m | kloeri: this is a bit of a sincere question, but (forgive me if I'm wrong) aren't you guys a tad unfriendly.. I mean "User support is a lot of work, and is best left to other projects for now." doesn't that discourage people a small amount? |
| 20:50.33 | Ivanovic | already thought deciding on which students to take last year is a difficult task, deciding on the orgs to accept is a whole class worse though |
| 20:50.38 | homunq | if 1/3 of the 400 are "quick accept", then the admins have the unenviable task of saying "no" to about 1/4 of THEM. |
| 20:50.46 | Ivanovic | since there are probably by far more "yeah, we would *love* to have them in..." |
| 20:51.16 | Ivanovic | homunq: uhm, 150 orgs get in |
| 20:51.18 | ojwb | isn't it around 150 org slot this year? |
| 20:51.22 | homunq | oh |
| 20:51.24 | homunq | oops |
| 20:51.47 | homunq | still. point stands. No is hard. |
| 20:52.00 | kloeri | codestr0m: it's not supposed to be unfriendly at all but we haven't really had the resources for user support - I agree that I should fix that part however |
| 20:52.05 | homunq | and shrinking from last year means more no than yes. |
| 20:52.25 | ojwb | wonders what proportion of last year's orgs reapplied |
| 20:52.40 | Crofton|work | I hope the apps and ideas are so awesome they expand the program :) |
| 20:52.49 | smtms | I wonder if small orgs will have a chance this year |
| 20:52.55 | kloeri | codestr0m: and while we still don't really make any promises of user support everybody seems to be getting the help they need so it's definitely getting better in that regard |
| 20:52.58 | codestr0m | kloeri: in general I think you guys/gals could clean up your image/branding a bit.. |
| 20:53.08 | homunq | ojwb: I'd lay money that more than 80%, and the student slots are down by that much. |
| 20:53.32 | codestr0m | kloeri: yes..well.. advertise that.. setting a reasonable expectation is good, but having a bad /tone/.. what's the advantage of that |
| 20:53.41 | kloeri | maybe - a big part of the problem is that people think it's rude when we say that parts of our code isn't ready for users yet though |
| 20:54.20 | codestr0m | kloeri: I say it all the time.. I tell them what to expect and that I value their first impression.. please wait |
| 20:54.25 | ajuonline | whaats up! |
| 20:54.28 | brlcad | homunq: keep in mind that there are a lot of orgs that really aren't eligible or have horrible applications or no communities, etc, that's part of the quick rejects |
| 20:54.34 | ajuonline | lh: i can haz some coffee? |
| 20:55.06 | brlcad | the ones in the middle are disproportionately hard to say no to |
| 20:55.26 | Crofton|work | gsoc proposal, develop a program that decides what orgs are accepted and allocated slots |
| 20:55.42 | kloeri | codestr0m: it's not meant to be in a bad tone and I'm making the website friendlier all the time - cleaning up things that people misunderstand, adding information people want and so on |
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| 20:55.54 | ajuonline | Crofton|work: i wonder that can still outsmart the ospo guys and lh |
| 20:56.01 | kloeri | codestr0m: it's getting better but our primary focus (mine included) is still our code tbh |
| 20:56.01 | ajuonline | or not |
| 20:56.11 | codestr0m | kloeri: I'm a doc writing machine lately. .so I fully know these things go in cycles |
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| 20:56.17 | brlcad | it's the same as with the student apps .. some are really easy no -- the really easy 'yes' are also often clear except that we're slot supply-constrained |
| 20:56.40 | lh | outsmart? |
| 20:56.54 | Crofton|work | do a better job :) |
| 20:57.04 | kloeri | I try not to be a doc writing machine as that's much better left to others imo :) |
| 20:57.04 | brlcad | Crofton|work: for 2007's orgs, I ran google-fight on all of the accepted orgs and ranked everyone.. very interesting results :) |
| 20:57.13 | lh | brlcad: share |
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| 20:57.45 | B|20CK | Quick question: Are there any requirements as far as specific classes finished or certifications earned to most probably be considered to work on any of the projects, or do you still have a chance if you're self taught, but meet the general requirements? |
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| 20:58.29 | Crofton|work | B|20CK, I'm pretty sure all you have to do is write a convincing proposal to the mentoring organization |
| 20:58.59 | brlcad | lh: it was linked in one of my 2008 apps iirc.. :) |
| 20:59.10 | brlcad | sees if he can find a link |
| 20:59.14 | lh | brlcad: will try to find it |
| 20:59.36 | Ivanovic | B|20CK: "all" you have to do is convince the org you want to work with to take you |
| 20:59.45 | brlcad | the hard part was finding a good term to categorize the umbrella orgs |
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| 20:59.55 | dberkholz | good afternoon |
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| 21:00.04 | brlcad | e.g. search for "php" and you get a quarter of the internet |
| 21:00.10 | Ivanovic | since this is a worldwide project it is not possible to say "you have to have heard class XYZ" |
| 21:00.40 | Ivanovic | because even in germany the classes you have to attend differ from university to university (though what they want to teach with it is often rather identical) |
| 21:00.48 | scorche | brlcad: i imagine that the top orgs were ones that had dual meanings?...such as animals and such? |
| 21:01.05 | Ivanovic | and it is not mandatory that your studies have to do with computers at all |
| 21:01.19 | Ivanovic | eg if you study history (or something like this) you can still participate in SoC |
| 21:01.28 | Ivanovic | just convince the org that they want *you* and not someone else |
| 21:01.32 | dberkholz | brlcad: even more confusing are quasi-umbrella things like gentoo.. |
| 21:01.41 | brlcad | scorche: mm.. i don't recall that being a problem, but for most of them I did try to narrow the search (e.g. "Apache Foundation" instead of "apache", etc) |
| 21:01.58 | dberkholz | we've supported gsoc projects that are tangentially related to us at best, but are useful to us if they happen |
| 21:02.03 | brlcad | it'd be interesting to compare to last year and this year to see how the counts have changed |
| 21:02.03 | Ivanovic | B|20CK: do so with a) your skill, b) a well done project proposal and c) with good communications with the project |
| 21:02.33 | dberkholz | last year we had a guy writing openpam modules so it would run on linux |
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| 21:02.59 | B|20CK | I see. |
| 21:03.06 | B|20CK | well that's good news. lol |
| 21:03.40 | B|20CK | and march 23rd is the starting date to submit an application, right? |
| 21:03.48 | scorche | !timeline |
| 21:03.48 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 21:03.55 | brlcad | aha, found it |
| 21:04.05 | brlcad | http://brlcad.org/~sean/Googlefight2007.pdf |
| 21:04.07 | dberkholz | someone's bday party, off to sing! |
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| 21:04.31 | B|20CK | Thank you very much scorche and Ivanovic ^^ |
| 21:04.40 | lh | dberkholz: have fun |
| 21:05.22 | Ivanovic | you're welcome |
| 21:05.27 | brlcad | course, even unbiased, there's still an indication of a project's "impact" with a generic term |
| 21:05.45 | brlcad | (which I think is what I went for, try to compare overall impact |
| 21:06.04 | scorche | brlcad: you should have a script that you can just re-run =) |
| 21:06.37 | brlcad | scorche: ideally .. cept 95% of the time was copy-pasting every org's name, copy-paste the result :) |
| 21:06.53 | ojwb | some of those a bit bogus |
| 21:06.56 | Crofton|work | beagleboard is about 2M, so we aren't the smallest group, impactwise |
| 21:07.07 | B|20CK | Hrm... so should I be applying to all that appeal to me and I think I can do a good job on, or just 2-3? |
| 21:07.12 | ojwb | "beagle" and "pidgin" are both words for example |
| 21:07.33 | ojwb | interesting though |
| 21:07.46 | Crofton|work | yeah, but beagleboard all one word helps |
| 21:07.48 | scorche | that is pretty old though...i know Rockbox got a lot of publicity a bit back from when we started doing releases again.. |
| 21:07.50 | brlcad | B|20CK: just enough that you can actually put a lot of good time and effort in |
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| 21:07.57 | Landon | I dont get it |
| 21:07.57 | Ivanovic | B|20CK: the only thing i can say is: try to impress the org you apply to |
| 21:07.59 | brlcad | which is usually just 2 or 3 |
| 21:08.00 | Landon | is that ranking? |
| 21:08.03 | Landon | or # of results |
| 21:08.07 | B|20CK | shrugs |
| 21:08.08 | B|20CK | Okay |
| 21:08.13 | Ivanovic | there is no "recipe for success" |
| 21:08.17 | Landon | @ brlcad |
| 21:08.27 | Ivanovic | though there are always *many* good students for a limited number of slots |
| 21:08.28 | ojwb | Crofton|work: there's "beagle" by itself - the search thing I assume |
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| 21:08.52 | brlcad | Landon: that's all googlefight does -- performs a query and gets the number of hits, same number you get if you search for that term |
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| 21:08.58 | Landon | ah |
| 21:09.02 | B|20CK | Yes, well this sounds like something that's right up my ally so ... wanna give it my best shot. :) |
| 21:09.03 | Landon | using Ranking as a header is misleading then P |
| 21:09.08 | brlcad | so it's just a search on every org name with results sorted |
| 21:09.11 | Landon | I was all topsy turvy |
| 21:09.12 | objorn | i thought the list of mentoring organizations was supposed to be listed by noon today? |
| 21:09.12 | Ivanovic | B|20CK: and personally i got to say that it is probably best to try to communicate well with the org |
| 21:09.15 | B|20CK | And now I have class...thanks again Ivanovic. |
| 21:09.19 | Ivanovic | get in touch with them, stuff like this |
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| 21:09.23 | B|20CK | yeah |
| 21:09.32 | brlcad | Landon: ah, it was mostly just in good fun, not a scientific analysis by any means |
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| 21:09.34 | B|20CK | I only just heard about gsoc, lol |
| 21:09.37 | Landon | :P |
| 21:09.38 | Ivanovic | :) |
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| 21:09.59 | B|20CK | I'm working on an open source mmo client and the graphics engine we're using let me know about it. |
| 21:10.04 | dhaun | objorn: tomorrow |
| 21:10.08 | brlcad | i mean.. it's using a search engine page hit count to compare projects .. not exactly scientific evidence of anything useful, just correlative |
| 21:10.09 | objorn | okay |
| 21:10.21 | B|20CK | gotta go or I'll be late. :S |
| 21:10.26 | Ivanovic | have fun |
| 21:10.31 | ojwb | !next |
| 21:10.31 | socinfo | "next" is Accepted mentoring organations are announced on March 18 at ~12 noon PDT / 19:00 UTC |
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| 21:11.08 | Ivanovic | hopes to have the new wesnoth stable release out by this time so that he can just sit back and prey that we get in... |
| 21:11.23 | ojwb | itym pray... |
| 21:11.34 | scorche | preys on Ivanovic |
| 21:11.36 | brlcad | haha, prey |
| 21:11.42 | brlcad | kill those users |
| 21:11.59 | Ivanovic | brlcad: eliminate competition or something like this |
| 21:12.01 | Ivanovic | ;) |
| 21:12.32 | Lennie | ajuonline: Secret Agent Laser Obstacle Chess ^_^? |
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| 21:13.45 | ajuonline | Lennie: :D new episode out? |
| 21:13.55 | Lennie | yosh |
| 21:13.59 | Lennie | no heroes though :( |
| 21:15.13 | brlcad | wow, BRL-CAD's "ranking" went from 117000 in 2008 to 881000 now .. |
| 21:15.20 | brlcad | I wonder if there's causation there or if it's just correlation |
| 21:15.36 | brlcad | or just natural growth |
| 21:15.55 | ArthurLiu | !timeline |
| 21:15.56 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 21:15.57 | thiago_home | higher is better? |
| 21:16.09 | brlcad | lh: do you know of any way to get historical search counts? |
| 21:16.34 | ajuonline | Lennie: kool, /me gets |
| 21:16.46 | lh | brlcad: not that i know of will ask around |
| 21:16.51 | lh | ignores irc now for realz |
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| 21:21.34 | r0bby | ignoring irc is bad for your health lh |
| 21:21.39 | kendrick | heh |
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| 21:22.55 | r0bby | ignoring irc has been known to cause cancer in lab rats |
| 21:23.08 | r0bby | of course it may have been the fact that these labs rats were heavily drugged |
| 21:23.14 | r0bby | but that's not relevent :) |
| 21:23.26 | kendrick | just like IRC users? :) |
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| 21:25.55 | ojwb | speaking of which, time for coffee |
| 21:29.31 | kblin | Crofton|work: you're with beagleboard? |
| 21:29.50 | Crofton|work | yeah |
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| 21:30.26 | kblin | Crofton|work: cute stuff. I've got one end of last year :) |
| 21:30.42 | Crofton|work | great |
| 21:30.48 | Crofton|work | what have you done with it? |
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| 21:31.22 | kblin | well, I was planning to use it as server, but there's some issues with the current debian armel kernel and the network card/driver |
| 21:31.36 | Crofton|work | Use Angstrom :) |
| 21:31.48 | kblin | I used debian because I know debian |
| 21:31.54 | Crofton|work | although, my usb network adapter is abit flaky |
| 21:32.07 | kblin | well, IPv4 works like a charm |
| 21:32.18 | kblin | IPv6, not so much |
| 21:32.18 | Crofton|work | ah |
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| 21:32.48 | kblin | I can get it to respond to IPv6 neighbour discovery by switching the card into promiscious mode |
| 21:33.07 | kblin | (aka tcpdump -i eth0 -s 1 > /dev/null &) |
| 21:33.30 | kblin | but I can't get it to do IPv6 forwarding |
| 21:33.37 | Crofton|work | weird |
| 21:33.44 | Crofton|work | what network card? |
| 21:33.48 | kblin | it routes three IPv4 subnets just fine |
| 21:33.51 | kblin | er, hang on |
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| 21:34.21 | kblin | Davicom Semiconductor, Inc. DM9601 To Fast Ethernet Adapter |
| 21:34.59 | kblin | but I'm not too surprised. the previous debian kernel kept producing tons of page errors |
| 21:35.19 | Crofton|work | I don't know many people doing hard core networking with it |
| 21:35.51 | kblin | I'm not doing hard core networking, I just want it to run my IPv6 tunnel |
| 21:36.02 | kblin | :) |
| 21:36.21 | *** join/#gsoc ondrej (n=ondra@24-176-186-44.static.reno.nv.charter.com) |
| 21:36.34 | kblin | but I have to admit I lacked the time to dig deeper |
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| 21:39.10 | kblin | I'll have a look after my thesis is done :) |
| 21:39.56 | kblin | or earlier, if the box that I want to replace with the beagleboard dies |
| 21:42.04 | Crofton|work | heh |
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| 21:43.10 | prince1600 | hi |
| 21:43.15 | prince1600 | everyone |
| 21:44.46 | Crofton|work | kblin, are you a mentor or a student? |
| 21:45.02 | Crofton|work | I'm sure we could consider such a project :) |
| 21:45.45 | kblin | mentor, if we get in :) |
| 21:46.12 | kblin | but I'm admining three projects, I guess at least one of them will make it |
| 21:46.47 | kblin | in any case, I need to give angstrom a try before complaining, or at least build a vanilla kernel |
| 21:47.47 | kblin | I just failed to boot qemu-arm last time I tried, and I didn't feel like setting up the cross-compiler toolchain so far |
| 21:48.06 | ojwb | kblin: wow, you could be quite busy then... |
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| 21:50.10 | kblin | ojwb: no. mentoring is lots of work, admining is ok |
| 21:50.44 | kblin | ojwb: I'm not going to mentor more than one student |
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| 21:51.01 | kblin | admining is only hard if there's lots of cats to herd |
| 21:51.08 | kblin | then you need to be a pro like lh |
| 21:51.39 | mib_1idsha | kblin: which org. you are admining? |
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| 21:52.28 | slypete | hi |
| 21:52.46 | ojwb | assumed that if things go wrong, the admin gets to sort it out |
| 21:53.10 | ojwb | but I guess that's unlikely to happen for 3 projects at once |
| 21:53.38 | slypete | gsoc for undergrad only? |
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| 21:54.36 | Ori_B | slypete: I believe it's any university student at any level. |
| 21:55.07 | smtms | including your dad who have decided to go back to uni and get another degree |
| 21:55.34 | slypete | my dad? |
| 21:55.48 | ojwb | postgrads can take part |
| 21:56.01 | jpirie23 | ~timeline |
| 21:56.14 | jpirie23 | !timeline |
| 21:56.14 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 21:56.17 | ojwb | though being able to work on gsoc full time for 3 months is likely to be more difficult for them |
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| 21:56.58 | kblin | mib_1idsha: WorldForge, Wine and Samba |
| 21:57.47 | kblin | ojwb: dunno, I admined two projects last year, and apart from kicking mentors to do their paperwork in time, there wasn't much for me to do |
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| 22:01.37 | Landon | whoops, forgot to wear green today |
| 22:01.45 | Landon | other than the limited amount on my gsoc07 shirt >.> |
| 22:02.11 | kblin | then at least get drunk |
| 22:02.22 | Landon | hehe |
| 22:02.26 | Landon | might try to find some corned beef |
| 22:02.32 | jpirie23 | is there a page somewhere with all the mentoring organisations taking part in 2009 somewhere? :) |
| 22:03.07 | kblin | !next |
| 22:03.07 | socinfo | "next" is Accepted mentoring organations are announced on March 18 at ~12 noon PDT / 19:00 UTC |
| 22:03.16 | kblin | after that date, yes |
| 22:03.23 | jpirie23 | ah i see thanks |
| 22:03.43 | kblin | also note the ~ in front of the time :) |
| 22:04.01 | jpirie23 | heh yeah kl |
| 22:04.26 | kblin | http://code.google.com/soc/2008/ <-- that's how the page looked last year |
| 22:04.28 | slypete | does gsoc pay? |
| 22:04.43 | lynxlynxlynx | if you do your thing |
| 22:04.43 | kblin | I expect this year is going to be similar :) |
| 22:04.56 | jpirie23 | cheers :) |
| 22:06.25 | ojwb | slypete: read the FAQ |
| 22:06.26 | ojwb | !faq |
| 22:06.26 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs |
| 22:06.39 | ojwb | feel free to ask question that *aren't* in it |
| 22:08.33 | lynxlynxlynx | ojwb: but then we can't make snarky comments |
| 22:09.08 | ojwb | is sure we'll still manage |
| 22:09.19 | kblin | :) |
| 22:09.40 | kblin | lynxlynxlynx: I can tell some stories about GSoC 2005 |
| 22:09.58 | lynxlynxlynx | no faq then? |
| 22:09.59 | kblin | where things weren't as nice and fluffy as they are these days |
| 22:10.17 | lynxlynxlynx | kblin: go ahead, sure beats this gdb session |
| 22:10.42 | kblin | we had no webapp to apply in, just a textbox... |
| 22:10.53 | kblin | we had to write our programs in fortran on punch cards |
| 22:11.07 | ojwb | 2006 was email applications for orgs at least |
| 22:11.09 | smtms | and mail the punch cards to Google for execution on their clusters? |
| 22:11.16 | Catfish_Man | then we had to serialize the punch cards and send them over telnet by hand |
| 22:11.21 | kblin | and we could only get to the servers after driving out the cave bears with pointy sticks |
| 22:11.28 | Catfish_Man | and the telnet went over tcp-by-avian carrier |
| 22:11.32 | lynxlynxlynx | Catfish_Man: oh, i thought they used pidgeons :( |
| 22:11.38 | lynxlynxlynx | ah :) |
| 22:11.45 | Catfish_Man | lynxlynxlynx: except for a few projects |
| 22:11.49 | Catfish_Man | we (adium) used ducks |
| 22:12.07 | kblin | Wine used bottles floating down the river |
| 22:12.11 | Catfish_Man | pidgin used even more pigeons of course, they had a bit of an advantage |
| 22:12.12 | kblin | they're more like UDP |
| 22:12.30 | lynxlynxlynx | heh |
| 22:12.52 | ojwb | has actually written programs on punched paper tape |
| 22:13.18 | ojwb | it was used in CNC machines in the late 80s at least |
| 22:13.31 | Crofton|work | has written FORTRAN on punched cards |
| 22:13.40 | ojwb | presumably because the code is short and the tape is robust in a workshop environment |
| 22:13.53 | Crofton|work | worked on a punched tape reader for CNC's in the early 80's |
| 22:14.01 | kblin | lynxlynxlynx: but all kidding aside, things were much less polished in 2005 |
| 22:14.28 | kblin | like we only got one payment in the end of the program, and the IRS kept 30% of it |
| 22:14.34 | ojwb | 2010 should be really slick I imagine |
| 22:14.50 | lynxlynxlynx | pioneering is always a challenge |
| 22:14.56 | ojwb | once melange has been shaken in to shape |
| 22:15.04 | kblin | so everybody had to file for tax returns, because at least as non-resident alient, you don't need to pay taxes in the US |
| 22:15.47 | kblin | of course before early 2006, I thought non-resident aliens were only visiting tatooine |
| 22:17.18 | kblin | or things like the pencils down date was given as Sept. 1st with us students wondering if that was 0:00 or 23:59 |
| 22:17.37 | ojwb | and which TZ... |
| 22:18.03 | kblin | well, yeah, Pacific time seemed to be a good guess |
| 22:18.33 | kblin | but I'm not complaining. 2005 was fun |
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| 22:19.32 | kblin | and it had the best t-shirt so far :D |
| 22:20.19 | kblin | it's one of my few geeky non-black shirts |
| 22:20.36 | lynxlynxlynx | link it or it doesn't exist |
| 22:20.44 | lynxlynxlynx | it's a shame that most geeky shirts are black |
| 22:21.13 | lynxlynxlynx | so unthoughtful ... if the sun is trying to kill you, dressing in black will only make things work |
| 22:21.15 | kblin | http://www.silverstripe.com/assets/ContentImages/google-summer-of-code-2005-tshirt.jpg |
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| 22:21.33 | ojwb | has one of the 2005 ones |
| 22:21.42 | ojwb | they had some left at the mentor summit last year |
| 22:21.49 | WinterMute | lynxlynxlynx, what kind of geek are you going outside when it's sunny? :p |
| 22:21.57 | ojwb | guess they overprinted rather |
| 22:22.59 | lynxlynxlynx | WinterMute: adventurous |
| 22:23.10 | kblin | the 2007 one was nice as well, even though it was black |
| 22:23.12 | kblin | http://media.photobucket.com/image/gsoc%2B2005%2Btshirt/helgith/google_4.jpg |
| 22:23.17 | WinterMute | good answer |
| 22:23.23 | lynxlynxlynx | WinterMute: and btw, i'm not a geek, i'm a level 7 druid |
| 22:23.31 | kblin | WinterMute: and safe from grues |
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| 22:26.46 | kblin | ah, shame, I can't find the "leaked" t-shirt design picture anymore |
| 22:27.36 | Landon | have you checked the pirate bay ? :P |
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| 22:30.37 | kblin | I just need to find my 2005 backup of my gsoc emails somewhere |
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| 22:33.06 | kblin | oh |
| 22:33.34 | kblin | I just saw that I missed a talk about gsoc last week |
| 22:34.42 | kblin | anyway, time for me to be off |
| 22:35.48 | lh | kblin: night! |
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| 22:37.50 | slypete | geordi: {bool yes = false; for(;;) {yes = !yes; cout << yes;}} |
| 22:37.57 | ajuonline | is droopy as well |
| 22:41.41 | pygi | ajuonline, you're just weird |
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| 22:43.10 | ajuonline | pygi: what else do you expect me to be at 0415 am! |
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| 23:21.19 | huda_s86 | hi all |
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| 23:33.37 | huda_s86 | hello all |
| 23:34.05 | huda_s86 | when the mentoring organization will be announced?? |
| 23:34.12 | Catfish_Man | !next |
| 23:34.12 | socinfo | "next" is Accepted mentoring organations are announced on March 18 at ~12 noon PDT / 19:00 UTC |
| 23:35.53 | huda_s86 | what about other organizations |
| 23:36.08 | huda_s86 | where I can find a list of them,please?? |
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| 23:37.33 | lh | huda_s86: try code.google.com/soc/2008 or /2007 etc. |
| 23:37.35 | ojwb | huda_s86: what do you mean by "other"? |
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| 23:39.37 | huda_s86 | ojwb I mean organizations other than next |
| 23:40.36 | huda_s86 | lh: I want 2009 list |
| 23:40.37 | ojwb | next is just a shotcut to that factoid in the bot |
| 23:40.42 | ojwb | there is no list yet |
| 23:40.46 | lh | huda_s86: for that you have to wait |
| 23:40.48 | ojwb | it is announced tomorrow |
| 23:41.08 | huda_s86 | when the list will be announced |
| 23:41.14 | ojwb | !next |
| 23:41.14 | socinfo | "next" is Accepted mentoring organations are announced on March 18 at ~12 noon PDT / 19:00 UTC |
| 23:41.16 | ojwb | then! |
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| 23:42.25 | ajuonline | o.O |
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| 23:47.08 | ajuonline | the main wait is when students results are supposed to be out :P |
| 23:48.18 | Dragonking | blinks |
| 23:48.32 | Dragonking | ajuonline: Nah, main wait is when we are waiting for a t-shirts. ;p |
| 23:52.06 | ajuonline | :) |
| 23:52.14 | Ivanovic | :) |
| 23:52.21 | ajuonline | i saw the ML today, some are yet to get it ? |
| 23:53.05 | Ivanovic | the design for the new shirts is out already, isn't it? (basically "just" the logo and that's it, right?) |
| 23:53.14 | lh | thinks ajuonline should go to bed and get some sleep |
| 23:53.25 | Ivanovic | would love to have a "coding for t-shirts" t-shirt with the SoC logo... |
| 23:53.42 | ajuonline | hugs lh |
| 23:53.45 | ajuonline | goodnight :P |
| 23:53.59 | lh | ajuonline: rest well |
| 23:54.07 | Ivanovic | should head off to bed as well |
| 23:54.09 | lh | Ivanovic: hrm. we should think about that |
| 23:54.10 | Ivanovic | n8 everybody |
| 23:54.12 | ajuonline | if 0523 hours is still night* |
| 23:54.13 | lh | Ivanovic: good idea. rest well. |
| 23:54.22 | lh | ajuonline: it is night until 0600 |
| 23:54.24 | lh | :) |
| 23:54.31 | Ivanovic | lh: it would be a *great* shirt and i think i already proposed it at the mentor summit... |
| 23:54.31 | ajuonline | heh :P |
| 23:54.32 | Ivanovic | ;) |
| 23:54.54 | Ivanovic | ajuonline: night starts when the sun begins to rise |
| 23:54.54 | lh | Ivanovic: i can't remember everything from the summit. :) |
| 23:55.00 | Ivanovic | we are geeks, aren't we? |
| 23:55.02 | Ivanovic | ^^ |
| 23:55.11 | ajuonline | GSoC 2009, Flipping bits, Not burgers* |
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