| 00:00.08 | z4chh | hopefully, a preview function is dirt easy |
| 00:00.27 | z4chh | very helpful though..gotta know what it looks like |
| 00:01.28 | z4chh | hah SRabbelier, i edited the xhtml by erasing everything...then i pasted my proposal from plain text....encased it in <pre></pre> |
| 00:01.30 | SRabbelier | z4chh: hehe, I don't think it'll be dirt easy, but doable, yes |
| 00:01.42 | SRabbelier | z4chh: did that work? :P |
| 00:01.43 | z4chh | it didn't turn out right :( |
| 00:01.51 | z4chh | it didn't word wrap!!!!!!! |
| 00:02.10 | z4chh | the format was correct of course...but no fricking word wrap |
| 00:02.20 | SRabbelier | z4chh: pwnd? :P |
| 00:02.37 | Raim | hm, there is just no word wrap applied if you say that is preformatted :) |
| 00:02.42 | z4chh | i think ill it again..encase the non-word wrapped stuff in <p></p> ...that might do it |
| 00:02.46 | z4chh | do it* |
| 00:02.58 | z4chh | hopefully :| |
| 00:03.42 | SRabbelier | z4chh: GLWT |
| 00:04.54 | z4chh | thanks...i think ill submit a bug report or issue report w/e...this form does need end user work |
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| 00:05.29 | SRabbelier | z4chh: end user work? |
| 00:05.43 | SRabbelier | z4chh: we're contemplating using a different editor btw |
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| 00:08.13 | z4chh | SRabbelier, as in make it easier for averages idiots like me to use |
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| 00:08.34 | SRabbelier | z4chh: well, you seem to have a pretty set goal of what you want it to look like :P |
| 00:08.38 | SRabbelier | z4chh: that's always hard |
| 00:09.55 | z4chh | hmm i suppose..my proposal is pretty intricate |
| 00:10.12 | z4chh | lot's of little subsections |
| 00:10.26 | z4chh | so blocks of text are spaced |
| 00:10.32 | z4chh | numbered.. |
| 00:10.36 | z4chh | listed |
| 00:10.58 | SRabbelier | z4chh: you might want to submit it as a pdf too |
| 00:11.05 | SRabbelier | z4chh: for extra formatting fancyness |
| 00:11.10 | p_l | z4chh: wrap it in one big <pre></pre> :P |
| 00:11.30 | Raim | p_l: heh, you didn't read that he did exactly that and it failed? ;) |
| 00:11.55 | p_l | oh, ECC fail |
| 00:12.08 | p_l | or I missed some interrupts and dropped packets ^^; |
| 00:12.14 | z4chh | that is the first thing i tried hah |
| 00:12.36 | z4chh | some reason my paragraphs didn't word wrap |
| 00:12.40 | p_l | z4chh: TeX and generate PDF!! :P |
| 00:12.40 | z4chh | for some* |
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| 00:13.16 | z4chh | ive never done a pdf hah |
| 00:13.25 | z4chh | ive done tons of xhtml/css coding |
| 00:13.45 | homunq | !slots |
| 00:13.45 | socinfo | "slots" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/studentallocations |
| 00:14.07 | SRabbelier | z4chh: for shame |
| 00:14.12 | p_l | z4chh: then install LyX + LaTeX and write in nice WYSIWYM-like environment :) |
| 00:14.14 | SRabbelier | z4chh: all coders should have used tex at least once |
| 00:14.18 | ojwb | pipe it through fmt, then use <pre>? |
| 00:14.33 | z4chh | isn't it WYSIWYG? |
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| 00:15.10 | SRabbelier | z4chh: yes, it is, but p_l is lacking sleep :P |
| 00:15.27 | p_l | SRabbelier: actually I meant WYSIWYM :P |
| 00:15.32 | z4chh | im no bloody WYSIWYG coder :) |
| 00:15.37 | ojwb | Mean not Get |
| 00:15.44 | p_l | What You See Is What You Mean :) |
| 00:15.45 | ojwb | or something like that |
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| 00:16.17 | z4chh | that different..or same, with different naming? |
| 00:16.29 | ojwb | different |
| 00:16.33 | ojwb | it's the opposite really |
| 00:16.46 | ojwb | like editting HTML in vi |
| 00:17.11 | p_l | z4chh: WYSIWYG tries to emulate output medium. WYSIWYM means trying to go for semantics and only then some formatting :) |
| 00:17.38 | z4chh | oh ok..both are for losers still |
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| 00:19.53 | p_l | z4chh: WYSIWYM is to WYSIWYG what semantic web/XHTML1.1/CSS/RDF is to a webpage made purely in flash just to present a sheet of paper :P |
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| 00:20.49 | p_l | or better, not flash, a page done as image :P |
| 00:22.38 | z4chh | p_l, indeed >.< |
| 00:22.59 | SRabbelier | cya guys later :) |
| 00:23.04 | SRabbelier | 't was fun :D |
| 00:26.44 | z4chh | im doing my own little mini gsoc just turning in these proposals :D |
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| 00:27.32 | ewizz | hi all |
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| 00:28.42 | summatusmentis | z4chh: what do you mean? |
| 00:28.46 | summatusmentis | hi ewizz |
| 00:28.57 | ewizz | can someone help me ? |
| 00:29.24 | z4chh | summatusmentis, im writing xhtml |
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| 00:30.17 | ewizz | is any mentor here? |
| 00:30.20 | ewizz | possible mentor |
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| 00:31.07 | z4chh | !anyone |
| 00:31.07 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
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| 00:32.00 | summatusmentis | z4chh: you're writing xhtml for your proposals? |
| 00:32.03 | ewizz | ok,thanks |
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| 00:35.18 | johndbritton_ | any gsocers in and around nyc -- http://nyc.openeverything.us |
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| 00:38.58 | z4chh | summatusmentis, yes o_o |
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| 00:53.06 | Chani | lh: do you guys have numbers on how many students from a specific school were in gsoc last year? |
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| 00:54.06 | z3r0 | i guess the school doesn't matter much, it's not a part of the selection criteria |
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| 00:55.25 | scorche | Chani: they were around.. |
| 00:56.24 | ojwb | it's interesting if particular institutions have a disproportionate "intake" - suggests someone's publicising gsoc there or something |
| 00:56.45 | Chani | scorche: oh? |
| 00:56.58 | scorche | yes...too lazy to search my logs, but they exist |
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| 01:00.06 | p_l | I suspect a lot of difference in who from what school is just the knowledge and willingness to try |
| 01:00.16 | p_l | knowledge of GSoC, that is |
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| 01:02.54 | ojwb | yeah, I'd imagine that most successful applicants have heard of GSoC |
| 01:03.02 | p_l | :-) |
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| 01:03.40 | p_l | there's also this part about "do it anyway" :-D |
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| 01:05.20 | icy | Saujee: ? |
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| 01:08.56 | geek745 | hi - i am a junior computer science major, interested in linux/open source. i have background in c++, java, php, other related web tech - which companies would be good to approach? |
| 01:09.06 | ojwb | !orgbylang |
| 01:09.06 | socinfo | "orgbylang" is 2009 list is work in progress: http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/bundle:Languages |
| 01:09.16 | ojwb | geek745: browse that ^^ |
| 01:09.36 | geek745 | alright. thanks |
| 01:09.54 | ojwb | btw, most of the orgs aren't companies |
| 01:11.12 | Ryan52 | lh: he's (at least connected) on irc now if you wanted to talk to him. |
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| 01:20.17 | vinc456 | !stat |
| 01:20.17 | socinfo | Error: "stat" is not a valid command. |
| 01:20.21 | vinc456 | !stats |
| 01:20.22 | socinfo | "stats" is http://www.lfowles.org/irc/gsoc/stats.htm |
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| 01:22.51 | vinc456 | i'm a little surprised with this factoid: "During this 396-day reporting period, a total of 4376 different nicks were represented on #gsoc." |
| 01:23.13 | vinc456 | oh wait, that might be about right |
| 01:23.29 | vinc456 | something like 7k applications from 2k students |
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| 01:25.29 | ojwb | about 3K students last year according to LH |
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| 01:26.34 | ojwb | presumably 1000 or so mentors too, plus people who didn't mentor and students who didn't apply |
| 01:26.50 | ojwb | and 396 days covers part of this and last year's GSoCs |
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| 01:30.01 | allisterb | !timeline |
| 01:30.01 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
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| 01:47.40 | Kraln | I built a headphone amp from scratch! :-) |
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| 01:56.15 | allisterb | cool |
| 01:58.22 | milki | a friend in high school did the same, then sent the specs in for manufacturing, and sold it to customers |
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| 02:16.31 | bitsweat | melange is pretty confusing / difficult to use |
| 02:16.55 | bitsweat | good case for non-coding gsoc projects :) |
| 02:16.56 | ojwb | bitsweat: file tickets on areas that can be improved then |
| 02:16.57 | bitsweat | needs a usability overhaul |
| 02:17.15 | ojwb | it's really new you know |
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| 02:18.17 | bitsweat | sure, looked into that |
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| 02:18.51 | bitsweat | I think it probably needs a strong UI person's input though, my tickets will just seem nitpicky to programmers working on it |
| 02:19.13 | bitsweat | simple things like being able to keep abreast of what's happening with student proposals |
| 02:19.24 | bitsweat | being able to communicate with all mentors at once |
| 02:19.45 | ojwb | I don't think those are nitpicky |
| 02:19.57 | bitsweat | you have to manually subscribe to public and private reviews, but separately, and subscriptions don't tell you when the student edits their proposal so you can re-review it |
| 02:20.08 | bitsweat | ojwb: ok :) |
| 02:21.09 | ojwb | but if you're worried about the appropriate level of detail, you could ask on #melange before filing lots of tickets |
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| 02:50.58 | summatusmentis | hi all |
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| 02:55.44 | ACSpike[Home] | The organization id in melange cannot be changed, correct? |
| 02:55.59 | ojwb | the link id can't be |
| 02:56.44 | ACSpike[Home] | how sad, I believe my coadmin made a mistake on the app and submitted his own id as the organizations link id (they appear to be the same) |
| 02:57.05 | ojwb | yeah, a lot of people did |
| 02:57.09 | ojwb | it doesn't really matter |
| 02:57.20 | ojwb | the most annoying thing is that the app list is sorted by it |
| 02:57.33 | ojwb | but it's just an identifying token really |
| 02:57.54 | ACSpike[Home] | yes, I would say it _does_ matter _because_ the app list is sorted by it |
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| 02:58.12 | ACSpike[Home] | very difficult to find Inkscape in the "S"s :-) |
| 02:58.34 | ACSpike[Home] | perhaps it will keep out all but the sharpest students ;-) |
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| 03:01.07 | ojwb | I suspect most will either know inkscape already and find your website, or just look through the categorised lists by language and area in delicious |
| 03:02.11 | ojwb | ACSpike[Home]: you could ask on #melange if it can be changed (or if they're fixing the sort order) |
| 03:02.17 | ACSpike[Home] | I suspect so |
| 03:02.33 | ACSpike[Home] | I'll check out #melange tomorrow |
| 03:02.34 | ACSpike[Home] | thanks |
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| 05:05.40 | jaffoneh | Hello |
| 05:06.04 | summatusmentis | hi |
| 05:06.21 | jaffoneh | I'm a student and I have some question about GSOC |
| 05:06.36 | summatusmentis | read the faq? |
| 05:06.37 | jaffoneh | questions* |
| 05:06.55 | jaffoneh | the ones related to my question, yes |
| 05:06.59 | jaffoneh | questions* |
| 05:07.21 | jaffoneh | I would like to know if working for a company would be considered as an internship or just a project I will be working on ? |
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| 05:08.18 | summatusmentis | how is working for a compnay related to gsoc? |
| 05:08.46 | jaffoneh | I'm sorry |
| 05:08.57 | jaffoneh | I meant working for one of the 150 approved projects in the list |
| 05:09.28 | summatusmentis | it's not an internship |
| 05:09.43 | summatusmentis | are you asking for tax reasons? |
| 05:10.13 | jaffoneh | no, just to understand the enviornment I will be working in :) |
| 05:10.47 | MTsoul | wtf im still on irc |
| 05:10.58 | jaffoneh | thanks for your help :) |
| 05:10.59 | summatusmentis | not an internship, more like a guided project |
| 05:11.22 | jaffoneh | ohh ok, I will read more about it on gsoc page |
| 05:11.24 | jaffoneh | thanks :) |
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| 06:00.12 | Landon | any matlab gurus int he house? |
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| 06:30.06 | irahul | !next |
| 06:30.06 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
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| 06:44.12 | sid1monu | hi |
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| 06:45.30 | monu | hi |
| 06:46.24 | monu | i need to know more about gsoc |
| 06:50.02 | ojwb | monu: have you read the faq yet? |
| 06:50.12 | monu | i am reading |
| 06:50.33 | ojwb | also, the advice for students is very good: |
| 06:50.36 | ojwb | !advice |
| 06:50.36 | socinfo | "advice" is http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforStudents for students, http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforMentors for mentors |
| 06:51.00 | philip_ | how does gsoc get the word out, to find students? |
| 06:51.26 | scorche | many ways.. |
| 06:52.10 | ojwb | many of the orgs taking part do a fair bit of advocacy |
| 06:52.23 | ojwb | and google too of course |
| 06:52.48 | Upthorn | I personally found out about the program just because newt here mentioned it in passing on #ocremix a couple weeks back. |
| 06:53.11 | Upthorn | well actually I'd heard about it before, but had been under the impression that it was a one-time thing that I totally missed out on |
| 06:53.45 | newt|breaktime | gsoc gets the word out by being generally awesome |
| 06:53.57 | newt|breaktime | so much so that people who know about it never shut up about it <_< |
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| 06:57.13 | glaksmono | last call for mentors around LA area for tomo :P |
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| 07:00.30 | monu | i am under age can i still participate in the program |
| 07:00.32 | monu | 14years |
| 07:02.23 | ojwb | you have to be 18 to take part as a student |
| 07:02.29 | ojwb | due to labour laws |
| 07:02.45 | ojwb | it is possible to be a mentor, though there are a few hoops to go through |
| 07:03.09 | monu | oh no |
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| 07:04.06 | ojwb | sorry |
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| 07:32.23 | p_l | 14yo mentors are fun, though xD |
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| 07:33.51 | irahul | !orgbylang |
| 07:33.51 | socinfo | "orgbylang" is 2009 list is work in progress: http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/bundle:Languages |
| 07:35.42 | Ryan52 | wait, what? |
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| 07:35.49 | Ryan52 | ojwb: it's due to labor laws? |
| 07:36.01 | Ryan52 | what if my state allows people of my age to work? |
| 07:36.19 | ojwb | don't ask me, ask lh |
| 07:36.26 | ojwb | but I suspect it's CA law |
| 07:36.30 | ojwb | that matters |
| 07:36.40 | easwar | and lh is away |
| 07:36.53 | Ryan52 | mm. ya, ok. anyway, I'm already gonna be a mentor (hopefully), so it's all good. =P |
| 07:36.56 | ojwb | thinks it's unlikely to make a difference |
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| 07:38.05 | Ryan52 | seems to recall that his cousin who lives in CA worked while he was under 18...eh, w/e. |
| 07:38.35 | Ryan52 | goes back to his code, which makes much more sense than the law ^.^ |
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| 07:40.15 | kblin | morning folks |
| 07:40.22 | brlcad | howdy kai |
| 07:40.22 | kblin | wow |
| 07:40.31 | easwar | morning kblin |
| 07:41.55 | easwar | kblin, what's to wow about kblin ? |
| 07:41.57 | kblin | now that's uncool |
| 07:42.19 | easwar | kblin, ? |
| 07:42.30 | kblin | easwar: I just found a mail from a prospective gsoc student who'd "like to present himself" |
| 07:42.48 | kblin | and it's sent to 15 mentoring orgs |
| 07:42.55 | easwar | present himself for what? |
| 07:42.55 | p_l | xD |
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| 07:42.58 | brlcad | is he wearing a long dark petticoat? |
| 07:43.00 | p_l | spamming :P |
| 07:43.08 | easwar | an examination |
| 07:43.08 | easwar | ? |
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| 07:43.13 | easwar | oh,oops |
| 07:43.55 | easwar | lol |
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| 07:44.09 | easwar | no PearlJam |
| 07:44.15 | easwar | :( |
| 07:44.30 | kblin | anyway, that's a PLONK |
| 07:44.47 | easwar | kblin, PLONK? |
| 07:44.50 | kblin | even though it's not a newsgroup |
| 07:45.33 | araujo | hi |
| 07:45.42 | kblin | it's a usenet term meaning Person Leaving Our Newsgroup into the Killfile |
| 07:48.47 | easwar | looks up old Usenet terms,including the meaning of Killfile |
| 07:50.19 | ojwb | kblin: wonder if that's the person on here yesterday who said they'd contacted 20 orgs |
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| 07:52.57 | Cazou | Hey, isn't there a character limit for the proposals anymore ? |
| 07:53.39 | ajuonline | hi finally :D |
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| 07:54.31 | kblin | Cazou: yeah, but be reasonable about it :) |
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| 07:55.16 | Cazou | yeah ok, I'll do my best. What was it again last year ? |
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| 07:55.40 | Cazou | So I stay in this reasonable count |
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| 07:57.05 | Mathiasdm | hm, I have around 1600 words for my proposal |
| 07:57.09 | Mathiasdm | hope that's not too much |
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| 07:58.14 | kblin | that should be ok |
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| 07:58.48 | kblin | Cazou: take as many as you need, just remember that people will have to read this as well |
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| 08:17.51 | Landon | BarryCarlyon: I'm certain they got confused at the word "computer" in my status |
| 08:17.57 | Landon | and their eyes just glazed over from that point |
| 08:17.58 | Landon | :P |
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| 08:19.32 | ojwb | [ |
| 08:19.43 | ojwb | x |
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| 08:25.46 | ajuonline | oO |
| 08:26.04 | casinaroyale | whats the ideal number of hours of work to assume? |
| 08:26.14 | easwar | 40/week |
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| 08:28.38 | brlcad | our previous year "happiest students" very often tend to work a lot more than even 40/week (because they really are enjoying what they're doing, gsoc is just a means to sustain their passion all summer) |
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| 08:29.49 | casinaroyale | brlcad: That makes sense. But if I assume more than 40 hours in my proposal, I think it will be seen as over-ambitious. What say? |
| 08:30.43 | casinaroyale | brlcad: or the other way, if I assume anything too less? |
| 08:30.43 | ojwb | wouldn't plan on more than that |
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| 08:31.17 | brlcad | casinaroyale: don't assume either way -- talk to them |
| 08:31.32 | casinaroyale | lol......sure |
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| 08:31.47 | mib_tv50r7vz | Hi All |
| 08:31.54 | brlcad | letting them know you intend to put in at *least* 40/week is probably perfectly fine |
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| 08:32.15 | brlcad | expectation is that of a full-time job regardless |
| 08:32.18 | mib_tv50r7vz | I want to know about the stipend amount for GSoC |
| 08:32.26 | mib_tv50r7vz | anyone have an idea |
| 08:32.31 | mib_tv50r7vz | ?? |
| 08:32.31 | casinaroyale | who will go through my proposals and select? google or the concernd company? |
| 08:32.37 | brlcad | mib_tv50r7vz: it's about 5 bucks |
| 08:32.49 | brlcad | read the faq |
| 08:32.55 | mib_tv50r7vz | I did |
| 08:33.04 | casinaroyale | brlcad: lol |
| 08:33.11 | casinaroyale | mib_tv50r7vz: 4500 USD |
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| 08:34.11 | philip_ | it's priceless |
| 08:34.38 | casinaroyale | Repeating my question: Who will go through my proposals and select? google or the concerned company? |
| 08:34.40 | arun_ | mib_tv50r7vz, it is in the faq btw under "How Do Payments Work?" |
| 08:34.49 | ojwb | casinaroyale: the org |
| 08:35.00 | ojwb | orgs aren't generally companies |
| 08:35.02 | brlcad | mib_tv50r7vz: no you didn't, or at least you didn't pay even the slightest bit of attention whilest reading or you were on the wrong page |
| 08:35.19 | casinaroyale | ojwb: thank u |
| 08:35.21 | brlcad | searching the page for 'stipend' leads you right to it, so you didn't try that hard |
| 08:35.26 | mib_tv50r7vz | Ok people thanks |
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| 08:37.01 | afterstep13 | w |
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| 08:39.02 | philip_ | casinaroyale: i believe the groups vote on their proposals and then google looks at the votes and assigns a number of projects to said group... then the group selects proposals |
| 08:39.39 | ojwb | there's a clearer description on the site |
| 08:39.41 | ojwb | !slots |
| 08:39.42 | socinfo | "slots" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/studentallocations |
| 08:42.46 | casinaroyale | ojwb: thank u |
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| 08:52.18 | yuri_ | hello, where do i find the list of ideas? |
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| 08:53.15 | philip_ | http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
| 08:53.29 | philip_ | all ideas are there, links to them at least |
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| 09:00.17 | yuri_ | thanx |
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| 09:11.20 | aghisla | Wolf_OSGeo: v.autokrige project just submitted! |
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| 09:20.11 | amarillion | Hmmm, are mentors supposed to be able to see each others private profile info? |
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| 09:21.53 | ojwb | can you? |
| 09:22.14 | amarillion | Yes, I can see my comentor's date of birth, even though it says "private" above that |
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| 09:23.16 | ojwb | hmm yes |
| 09:23.19 | ojwb | you can edit the url |
| 09:23.21 | ojwb | that's rather poor |
| 09:23.29 | amarillion | I'll file a bug for that |
| 09:23.39 | ojwb | yes |
| 09:23.49 | ojwb | amarillion: what's your link id? |
| 09:23.55 | ojwb | wonders if he can see you |
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| 09:25.14 | ojwb | well, I can see my co-admin at least |
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| 09:27.09 | amarillion | ojwb: mvaniersel |
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| 09:29.29 | ojwb | "Error 404: There is no "Mentor" where "scope_path" is "google/gsoc2009/swig" and "link_id" is "mvaniersel"." |
| 09:29.31 | amarillion | Ok I filed a bug |
| 09:29.33 | ojwb | so that's good |
| 09:29.40 | ojwb | it seems to only be within the org |
| 09:29.46 | ojwb | amarillion: are you an admin? |
| 09:29.53 | amarillion | Maybe, I'm not sure? |
| 09:29.55 | ojwb | is |
| 09:30.11 | ojwb | amarillion: you are if you submitted the org application |
| 09:30.18 | amarillion | In that case no |
| 09:30.23 | ojwb | or if someone added you since (and you had to agree to that) |
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| 09:39.40 | amarillion | I guess it's by design. |
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| 09:40.18 | ojwb | can see that admins might reasonably be able to |
| 09:40.26 | ojwb | seems a little less reasonable for mentors to be |
| 09:40.39 | amarillion | ojwb: what if you replace swig with genmapp? My project is genmapp |
| 09:40.48 | ojwb | that's a thought |
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| 09:42.39 | ojwb | amarillion: no |
| 09:42.52 | ojwb | but I can editor other mentor's and admin's details |
| 09:42.57 | ojwb | can edit |
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| 09:43.12 | ojwb | amarillion: can you edit, or just view |
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| 09:43.51 | amarillion | Yes, but only within your project then. That's not such a big deal then, although I wouldn't have expected that |
| 09:44.27 | ojwb | for small projects it's not such a big deal |
| 09:44.39 | ojwb | for a large umbrella org you may have no idea who all the mentors are |
| 09:45.53 | amarillion | Step 1: sign up as a mentor for GNOME Step 2: skim all mentor addresses Step 3: ??? Step 4: Profit! |
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| 09:46.03 | Kraln | hahaha, jesus |
| 09:46.11 | Kraln | so I built one headphone amp. I had enough pieces to build a second |
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| 09:46.21 | Kraln | I put it together, it looks better than the first one, etc. I hook it up |
| 09:46.25 | Kraln | nothing but problems. |
| 09:46.36 | Kraln | so far I've blown two op-amps, a 9v battery, ripped half the resistors off |
| 09:46.54 | Kraln | I think I fixed it. but oh man, goes to show how far hubris gets you in analog circuits |
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| 09:52.20 | easwar | plans to build a Class D amplifier over the next weekend |
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| 10:19.34 | GnuBoi | can i apply gsoc and start working only after july |
| 10:19.38 | GnuBoi | is that possible |
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| 10:28.55 | tilmann_ | GnuBoi: in principle you can discuss this with our mentor |
| 10:29.03 | tilmann_ | s/our/your/ |
| 10:29.18 | tilmann_ | heh |
| 10:29.29 | tilmann_ | a sed bot! |
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| 10:29.51 | GnuBoi | tilmann_: who is my mentor |
| 10:30.02 | tilmann_ | but i don't know, july is already the time of midterm evaluations |
| 10:30.28 | tilmann_ | he basically would have to give you a positive evaluation without seeing much work from you |
| 10:30.50 | tilmann_ | GnuBoi: the person who mentors the project you are going to apply for |
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| 10:31.11 | GnuBoi | should i have to apply for only one project |
| 10:31.39 | tilmann_ | no, you're encouraged to apply to many projects :) |
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| 10:32.25 | ojwb | um, I wouldn't say that |
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| 10:32.55 | mitesh | GnuBoi, me too apply for one with full preparation |
| 10:33.00 | ojwb | you certainly can (20 is the hard limit), but it's not recommended to apply for anywhere near that number |
| 10:33.18 | mitesh | tilmann_, what say? |
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| 10:33.34 | tilmann_ | mitesh: that's ok |
| 10:33.54 | tilmann_ | in general the quality of your applications is much more important than the number |
| 10:34.05 | MarkieMark1 | ojwb: do you think 6 or 7 applications would be too many? |
| 10:34.39 | ojwb | my personal view is that 2 or 3 is reasonable |
| 10:34.46 | ojwb | (or 1) |
| 10:34.48 | tilmann_ | ojwb: yeah |
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| 10:34.56 | ojwb | I don't believe you can write more than 3 good proposals |
| 10:35.10 | MarkieMark1 | that may be true :) |
| 10:35.12 | mitesh | anyone here applying for rhythmbox? |
| 10:35.12 | ojwb | they'll just be mostly cut and paste, and that shows |
| 10:35.19 | MarkieMark1 | I've made 2 so far |
| 10:35.21 | ojwb | !anyone |
| 10:35.21 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
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| 10:35.26 | ojwb | mitesh: ^^ |
| 10:35.40 | mitesh | ojwb, proposal? |
| 10:35.48 | ojwb | applications for projects |
| 10:36.38 | MarkieMark1 | though I think I've got stamina for at least 3 more, plus I've only reached the 'S's so far :) |
| 10:36.41 | harshit_jain | wsfulton-2: hii |
| 10:36.50 | mitesh | ojwb, so do the applicant need to come in contact with mentor |
| 10:36.51 | mitesh | ? |
| 10:37.25 | ojwb | mitesh: it's a good idea to talk to the org before submitting though not required |
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| 10:37.43 | ojwb | it's really rare for an application not to need revising in the light of feedback from the org |
| 10:37.53 | ojwb | (which is another reason that submitting lots doesn't really work) |
| 10:37.59 | tilmann_ | yeah |
| 10:38.12 | ojwb | but if you've discussed it first, you can get a head start in the right direction |
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| 10:38.18 | tilmann_ | discussing your proposal with the org really increases your chances of getting taken |
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| 10:38.24 | ojwb | yep |
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| 10:38.51 | VarmVaffel | What's the precentage for who gets to participate in google SoC out of all of the applications? |
| 10:38.55 | VarmVaffel | I mean from previous years |
| 10:39.03 | ojwb | about 1/3 last year |
| 10:39.11 | VarmVaffel | hm aight |
| 10:39.14 | VarmVaffel | and that was about 1k? |
| 10:39.15 | ojwb | there were ~7000 apps from ~3000 students |
| 10:39.16 | mitesh | ojwb, so i am applying for rhythmbox how can i contact my org? |
| 10:39.19 | ojwb | and 1125 accepted |
| 10:39.19 | VarmVaffel | right |
| 10:39.33 | ojwb | mitesh; read what socinfo said |
| 10:40.30 | ojwb | there's more stats here: http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/ProgramStatistics |
| 10:40.40 | VarmVaffel | k, thanks |
| 10:41.01 | ojwb | i'm not sure if there will be more applications this year than last |
| 10:41.41 | ojwb | it feels quieter, so I wonder if the news of slightly reduced numbers of students has put off some |
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| 10:43.10 | amarillion | It's early still |
| 10:43.38 | amarillion | We have few applications right now but judging from the mailing list many more are being prepared |
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| 10:44.24 | VarmVaffel | ok I see |
| 10:44.44 | VarmVaffel | is this being covered more extensively in the states? |
| 10:44.59 | ojwb | anyway, I wouldn't be put off by the slightly reduced number of places |
| 10:45.24 | amarillion | I don't think so, we're getting applications from all over the world |
| 10:45.26 | ojwb | there's a lot of poor applications, so if you write a good one, you've a pretty good chance of getting accepted |
| 10:45.36 | VarmVaffel | hehe ok fair enough |
| 10:45.40 | amarillion | I think it varies a lot from school to school and university to university |
| 10:45.55 | VarmVaffel | so is it mostly applications from other places than the states? |
| 10:46.00 | amarillion | It seems GSOC is promoted very actively at some schools |
| 10:46.07 | VarmVaffel | I mean countries, I'm from Norway myself |
| 10:46.08 | VarmVaffel | hence my q |
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| 10:46.15 | VarmVaffel | k |
| 10:46.23 | spectei | cool |
| 10:46.26 | spectei | which university VarmVaffel ? |
| 10:46.32 | VarmVaffel | Høgskolen i Østfold |
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| 10:46.41 | spectei | i only know people from Tromsø and Bergen |
| 10:46.42 | VarmVaffel | if you can read the "special" chras :P |
| 10:46.46 | VarmVaffel | a right |
| 10:46.47 | VarmVaffel | well |
| 10:46.57 | VarmVaffel | it's not as big as they are, but it's fairly huge |
| 10:47.01 | ojwb | http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2008/04/two-top-10s-for-google-summer-of-code.html |
| 10:47.08 | ojwb | that shows the top countries last time |
| 10:47.33 | VarmVaffel | huh a lot from India |
| 10:47.45 | spectei | VarmVaffel, you're not interested in NLP by any chance ? |
| 10:48.11 | ojwb | the stipend must look very attractive in China and India I think |
| 10:48.13 | VarmVaffel | I'm not quite sure what that is, so I dunno :P |
| 10:48.23 | spectei | VarmVaffel, natural language processing |
| 10:48.27 | VarmVaffel | hm |
| 10:48.35 | ojwb | it seems to be more than the average annual wage in China! |
| 10:48.36 | GnuBoi | are there many from india |
| 10:48.45 | VarmVaffel | you mean like speach synthesis or the other way around? |
| 10:48.59 | VarmVaffel | heh I bel ojwb :P |
| 10:49.00 | spectei | VarmVaffel, i mean any kind of computational processing of human language |
| 10:49.22 | amarillion | VarmVaffel, we already have applications from USA, Sri Lanka, China and France |
| 10:49.27 | VarmVaffel | I haven't worked much with it, but I could maybe read some more about it |
| 10:49.53 | spectei | one of our applications has been for MT between nynorsk and bokmål |
| 10:49.55 | VarmVaffel | yeah I can see the top countries from the link that ojwb provided |
| 10:50.10 | VarmVaffel | but right, you mean this year too |
| 10:50.17 | VarmVaffel | oh |
| 10:50.20 | VarmVaffel | hm |
| 10:50.33 | ojwb | finds the varying proportions interesting |
| 10:50.36 | VarmVaffel | well I know one app that translates between Bokmål and Nynorsk already, is that open source? |
| 10:50.42 | amarillion | Hmm I wonder what that graph would look like relative to population size? India has 3 times the population of USA so you would expect an even bigger share |
| 10:50.43 | VarmVaffel | or what's the project site? |
| 10:51.15 | spectei | VarmVaffel, no |
| 10:51.17 | spectei | VarmVaffel, that is nyno |
| 10:51.20 | spectei | VarmVaffel, it is not open-source |
| 10:51.28 | VarmVaffel | yeah that's what I thought |
| 10:51.33 | spectei | VarmVaffel, do you write nn or nb ? |
| 10:51.34 | VarmVaffel | I was thinking about * |
| 10:51.35 | spectei | nb i suppose |
| 10:51.37 | VarmVaffel | bm |
| 10:51.40 | spectei | aye |
| 10:52.12 | ojwb | it's not too surprising that USA and UK application are more likely than average to be accepted, since being a native English speaker is going to help |
| 10:52.20 | amarillion | But the large share of Sri Lanka students is interesting |
| 10:52.26 | ojwb | and Canada too, though that seems less marked |
| 10:52.27 | spectei | also knowing the "norms" of participating in open-source ojwb |
| 10:52.35 | spectei | ojwb, and of application |
| 10:52.36 | ojwb | but that doesn't explain germany |
| 10:52.43 | ojwb | true, that must help |
| 10:52.46 | spectei | being a native english speaker doesn't help |
| 10:52.49 | spectei | knowing how to write applications does |
| 10:52.50 | ojwb | there's a lot of open source people in germany |
| 10:52.59 | spectei | well, maybe it helps, but not that much |
| 10:53.17 | amarillion | Most german students speak excellent english. Certainly it's much easier for germans to learn english than it is for chinese |
| 10:53.18 | ojwb | I'm not saying it's a big help |
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| 10:53.32 | ojwb | that's true |
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| 10:54.02 | ojwb | though my (admittedly not well founded) impression is that English is pretty commonly spoken in India |
| 10:54.11 | spectei | it is commonly spoken ojwb |
| 10:54.17 | spectei | especially in higher education |
| 10:54.24 | Giant-Sheep | it's somewhat hard to study computer science for example if you don't speak english. |
| 10:54.46 | spectei | or at least read it |
| 10:54.48 | VarmVaffel | Have you any numbers for norwegian applications by any chance? :p |
| 10:54.56 | spectei | VarmVaffel, we've got one ;) |
| 10:55.02 | VarmVaffel | great :P |
| 10:55.03 | ojwb | knows no more than the charts there show |
| 10:55.26 | mitesh | spectei, you from india? |
| 10:55.33 | spectei | no i'm english |
| 10:55.36 | spectei | but living in spain |
| 10:55.44 | mitesh | i m form india |
| 10:56.10 | spectei | i see |
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| 10:57.28 | VarmVaffel | but regarding your question about the language thing, is that a project of yours or is it just something you've heard people here are working on? |
| 10:57.31 | VarmVaffel | spectei |
| 10:57.37 | spectei | VarmVaffel, it's a project of ours |
| 10:57.41 | VarmVaffel | ah I se |
| 10:57.43 | VarmVaffel | e |
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| 10:57.48 | spectei | VarmVaffel, we make machine translation systems for under-resourced languages |
| 10:58.01 | amarillion | You know, the large share of Sri Lanka is really interesting. It has population 20mln even though it's in between poland and UK, both with population around 60mln |
| 10:58.30 | ojwb | perhaps it got publicised a lot at a few unis there |
| 10:58.36 | VarmVaffel | ah right, and that would include languages like norwegian? |
| 10:58.38 | amarillion | Yes, that must be the reason |
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| 10:59.00 | ojwb | for the UK, the timeline doesn't fit uni exams well IIRC |
| 10:59.06 | gminick | amarillion: Poland is < 40 million |
| 10:59.20 | GnuBoi | Can i apply and only work after july which is after my exam? |
| 10:59.20 | gminick | but still - Sri Lanka rulez ;-) |
| 10:59.34 | ojwb | GnuBoi: didn't you already ask that? |
| 10:59.39 | GnuBoi | ojwb: ya |
| 10:59.50 | ojwb | it's down to your org really, but I very much doubt they'd be happy with that |
| 10:59.51 | GnuBoi | but i couldn't undersatand your answer |
| 10:59.59 | ojwb | didn't answer, someone else did |
| 11:00.00 | amarillion | gminick, you're right, google confirms it. That's less than I thought. UK is 60,9 mln |
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| 11:04.09 | ojwb | GnuBoi: you may be able to start coding early (in the "community bonding period") then take a break for your exam, that start again after it |
| 11:04.09 | ojwb | people have before |
| 11:04.09 | ojwb | but you need to tell your org the times you are able to work, and check that is ok with them |
| 11:04.09 | ojwb | most will expect it to be equivalent to about 12 weeks full-time work |
| 11:04.09 | spectei | VarmVaffel, yes |
| 11:04.09 | spectei | VarmVaffel, nynorsk especially |
| 11:04.09 | VarmVaffel | ah right |
| 11:04.09 | spectei | VarmVaffel, actually norwegian has quite a lot of language technology |
| 11:04.09 | spectei | but not a lot of it is free |
| 11:04.09 | VarmVaffel | indeed |
| 11:04.09 | spectei | they have this MT system that received millions from your government, LOGON |
| 11:04.10 | spectei | for norwegian--english |
| 11:04.12 | spectei | and it isn't free |
| 11:04.56 | VarmVaffel | well, my personal opinion is not to support nynorsk, but if you're into some open-source projects for it I'm allways for it |
| 11:05.06 | GnuBoi | ojwb: i have to prepare for exams but i will work after the exam |
| 11:05.06 | VarmVaffel | I mean, Norway spells it's name in two ways |
| 11:05.06 | VarmVaffel | the only goddamn country in the world that does that |
| 11:05.06 | VarmVaffel | thanks to nynorsk |
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| 11:05.31 | ojwb | GnuBoi: I can't speak for everyone, but I wouldn't accept someone who could only start in July |
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| 11:05.57 | GnuBoi | ojwb: for what r u mentor |
| 11:06.17 | GnuBoi | i mean which organization |
| 11:06.34 | spectei | <VarmVaffel> well, my personal opinion is not to support nynorsk, but if you're into some open-source projects for it I'm allways for it |
| 11:06.35 | spectei | why is that ? |
| 11:06.46 | VarmVaffel | well it's so uneccesary |
| 11:06.55 | spectei | why? |
| 11:06.58 | VarmVaffel | a country should have one written language |
| 11:07.01 | VarmVaffel | one is enough |
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| 11:07.13 | ojwb | VarmVaffel: what about Belgium? |
| 11:07.18 | spectei | VarmVaffel, how about wales ? |
| 11:07.21 | spectei | or ireland |
| 11:07.33 | VarmVaffel | and besides, nynorsk is just barely diferent from bokmål, which is why it's just a pain in the ass to learn it and get graded it with like 1/3 of the norwegian grade |
| 11:07.47 | VarmVaffel | and I _never_ use it |
| 11:07.48 | spectei | VarmVaffel, depends on how you write it |
| 11:07.48 | VarmVaffel | never |
| 11:07.50 | spectei | i suppose |
| 11:07.52 | ojwb | GnuBoi: swig |
| 11:08.02 | GnuBoi | OK |
| 11:08.02 | spectei | you can write it more different, or more similar |
| 11:08.10 | spectei | VarmVaffel, bokmål is just _barely_ different from danish :P |
| 11:08.18 | VarmVaffel | yeah that is true :P |
| 11:08.21 | VarmVaffel | heh |
| 11:08.31 | VarmVaffel | cos we were under danish gouvernment 200 years ago or so |
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| 11:08.49 | VarmVaffel | and that's also why nynorsk was "invented" out of how the people here spoke |
| 11:08.59 | spectei | aye |
| 11:09.06 | VarmVaffel | but still, I'm not for it, I guess cos I'm used to bokmål |
| 11:09.07 | spectei | like all written languages are "invented" |
| 11:09.14 | spectei | english was "invented" |
| 11:09.17 | VarmVaffel | heheh yeah :P |
| 11:09.23 | spectei | people forget that |
| 11:09.26 | VarmVaffel | I was wondering on how to express that, but you get my view :P |
| 11:09.27 | spectei | have short memories |
| 11:09.58 | spectei | "the nynorsk standard was developed to bring the written language of the country closer to how the people spoke" |
| 11:10.02 | spectei | something like that maybe? :P |
| 11:10.07 | VarmVaffel | indeed :P |
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| 11:10.23 | VarmVaffel | but that was 200 years ago, when theater and written drama rules the countryside |
| 11:10.34 | VarmVaffel | bokmål and nynorsk should have merged ages ago |
| 11:11.09 | spectei | i'm not saying that they shouldn't ;) |
| 11:11.46 | VarmVaffel | hehe |
| 11:12.11 | VarmVaffel | well no matter, no need on discussing it really :P |
| 11:12.22 | VarmVaffel | but I'm gonna do some excercises in electronics |
| 11:12.23 | spectei | aye |
| 11:12.30 | VarmVaffel | final exam this monday |
| 11:12.33 | VarmVaffel | so later |
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| 11:12.43 | VarmVaffel | thanks for the discussion in any case :P |
| 11:13.24 | spectei | np |
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| 11:13.26 | spectei | see you |
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| 11:33.32 | GnuBoi | I am of 17 yrs am i eligible for gsoc |
| 11:35.39 | ojwb | you need to be 18 or older on april 20th |
| 11:35.55 | ojwb | (date from memory; check faq) |
| 11:36.17 | easwar | !faq |
| 11:36.18 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs |
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| 11:56.17 | adityav | Hi, I am having an interface problem. When i completed my student profile, and press submit, i get the error " this entity does not belong to you" please help me |
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| 12:05.32 | ojwb | adityav: try asking on #melange |
| 12:05.46 | ojwb | that's where the people who work on the webapp hang out |
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| 12:26.46 | psofa | hi, what does "expected graduation year" means?The year i should graduate if i follow the universities' normal studies duration or the year i personally expect to graduate ? |
| 12:26.54 | psofa | *mean |
| 12:27.39 | psofa | s/universities/university's god damn spelling |
| 12:28.05 | oak_ | is there likely for application deadline to be extended like last year? got a lots of mid-semester exams now and it would come handy |
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| 12:29.10 | ojwb | oak_: I wouldn't rely on it, but I don't recall why it was extended last year |
| 12:29.30 | ojwb | doesn't recall it being extended even! |
| 12:30.06 | ojwb | psofa: I doubt it matters, but I'd suggest the latter is more useful |
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| 12:32.52 | benc_ | doesn't remember it being extended last year |
| 12:33.06 | danderson | oak_: no. |
| 12:33.11 | benc_ | all so fuzzy and long ago |
| 12:33.19 | danderson | there is currently no indication or reason to extend that deadline |
| 12:33.22 | danderson | so do not count on it |
| 12:33.29 | danderson | if you do, you'll probably find yourself screwed |
| 12:33.36 | lut4rp | :) |
| 12:33.51 | benc_ | as a mentor, I'd rather people work on stuff now rather than put stuff in the hour before the deadline anyway |
| 12:33.56 | benc_ | much more scope for talking about stuff |
| 12:34.05 | danderson | indeed |
| 12:34.11 | danderson | well, you can discuss after the deadline too |
| 12:34.16 | danderson | but in general, yeah |
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| 12:35.08 | Ivanovic | !timeline |
| 12:35.08 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 12:36.18 | kumarabhi | how does the incremental search work in evince |
| 12:36.20 | kumarabhi | ? |
| 12:36.22 | kumarabhi | any ideas? |
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| 12:37.44 | rcampos | Hi all! |
| 12:37.56 | ojwb | wonders why this seems a good place to ask |
| 12:38.42 | ojwb | oak_: you can amend after the deadline, you need to have submitted something before it |
| 12:39.13 | ojwb | but orgs won't be impressed if you submit something totally half baked just to get in |
| 12:39.26 | oak_ | right |
| 12:39.32 | oak_ | thx for info anyway |
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| 12:44.03 | prea | is away: out for lunch! |
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| 12:44.49 | rcampos | If I apply to 2 different orgs, but the first is the one I really want, and the second, it's just in case. Can I make this priority explicit when submitting? |
| 12:45.12 | thiago | yes |
| 12:45.18 | kblin | rcampos: you can tell your mentoring orgs about it |
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| 12:48.33 | rcampos | and do you think it's unethical to do so, or simply best not to do so? |
| 12:49.27 | thiago | I think it's fair to do it |
| 12:49.42 | thiago | in any case, if you get selected by both orgs, you usually get asked which one you prefer |
| 12:50.20 | ojwb | but you might not |
| 12:50.49 | rcampos | hum, interesting. thanks a lot! |
| 12:51.03 | ojwb | so essentially, don't apply for a project which you wouldn't be happy doing |
| 12:51.55 | ojwb | it's certainly not unethical |
| 12:52.12 | ojwb | well, unless you lie to the orgs about it |
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| 12:56.20 | rcampos | Makes sense... and it's not I would mind doing the project, I would love to, but there is one I would love a whole lot more! :) |
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| 12:57.42 | deepcyan | hi all, i'm a newbie to open source projects |
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| 13:07.06 | HanzZ | !timeline |
| 13:07.06 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 13:07.09 | HanzZ | !next |
| 13:07.09 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
| 13:07.18 | HanzZ | thanks :) |
| 13:08.03 | p_l|backup | should really go to sleep, for a moment he parsed socinfo's message in polish... |
| 13:08.15 | dhoclone_plan9 | haha |
| 13:08.23 | dhoclone_plan9 | nite :) |
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| 13:10.27 | mithro | brlcad: ping? |
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| 13:11.21 | p_l|backup | dhoclone_plan9: the thing is, it's 1pm here >_> |
| 13:12.00 | Chakrapani | amarillion: ping! |
| 13:14.07 | nextgens | !next |
| 13:14.07 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
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| 13:14.34 | amarillion | Hey Chakrapani |
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| 13:37.57 | brlcad | mithro: pong |
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| 13:38.33 | mithro | brlcad: shouldn't you be like asleep or something? |
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| 13:40.42 | brlcad | mithro: nah |
| 13:41.02 | brlcad | plenty of time to sleep when I'm dead |
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| 13:41.43 | easwar | !timeline |
| 13:41.43 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
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| 13:56.26 | aghisla | hello all |
| 13:57.14 | smtms | aghisla, hi and welcome |
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| 14:10.32 | alpaca | friday, finally1 |
| 14:13.06 | BCarlyon|Server | lol |
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| 14:15.43 | summatusmentis | hi all |
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| 14:17.07 | rkirti | hi everyone, I have a rather vague query here...how do package maintainers do dependency tracking across platforms ? (when making porting a project to a platform?) |
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| 14:19.19 | smtms | rkirti, how do you understand "dependency tracking"? |
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| 14:20.34 | rkirti | smtms, as I know it, it is about specifying what packages are needed to 1. build the given package on the host and 2. to run it on the target |
| 14:20.53 | p_l|backup | rkirti: separate it into build and install deps |
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| 14:24.28 | rkirti | p_l|backup, I agree. I am doing that. My question is, how do these guys find out what packages are needed in each category? |
| 14:26.00 | p_l|backup | rkirti: depends on the actual application... |
| 14:26.42 | p_l|backup | usually unless you change OS, the requirements are the same, and even among different OSes many of them will be similar |
| 14:26.51 | PearlJam | so i have submitted my application and now i am feeling like i have nothing to do, so any suggestions? |
| 14:27.38 | ojwb | you could pester the org every 15 minutes on IRC |
| 14:27.44 | ojwb | that seems quite popular |
| 14:27.57 | ojwb | (mostly) joking |
| 14:28.01 | PearlJam | i already had a talk with my mentor and he says i gotta wait, but i feel like i m doing nothing. |
| 14:28.32 | ojwb | start trying out the software you'd be working with? |
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| 14:28.35 | ojwb | if you haven't already |
| 14:29.29 | arun_ | PearlJam, you could submit patches, write docs, etc. try to contribute. |
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| 14:30.11 | PearlJam | well thanks . contribution seems good. |
| 14:30.23 | ojwb | it's true |
| 14:30.38 | summatusmentis | write more applications :) |
| 14:31.09 | ojwb | if they see a patch or two from you, that a very good sign that you'll do well on your project |
| 14:31.12 | PearlJam | summatusmentis: na, i dont like doing too many applications when i dont have my heart into it. |
| 14:31.20 | summatusmentis | PearlJam: I know, mostly a joke |
| 14:31.33 | psofa | is it a good idea to write in my application if i have already contacted my would-be mentor and talked about the project? |
| 14:31.36 | PearlJam | by patch am i required to fix a bug in the software ONLY? |
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| 14:31.43 | hypa7ia | psofa: yes :) |
| 14:31.47 | PearlJam | psofa: i asked this and i did this. |
| 14:31.58 | ojwb | only? |
| 14:32.00 | ojwb | or ? |
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| 14:32.26 | PearlJam | i can add something new , something trivial. |
| 14:32.28 | ojwb | a patch which does something useful - fix a bug, add a useful feature |
| 14:32.34 | ojwb | fix typos in the documentation even |
| 14:33.21 | psofa | PearlJam, did you add it to the summary or this would be cheap? |
| 14:33.47 | PearlJam | psofa: i asked my mentor, i asked in this channel, and everyone said i should add it. it is not cheap. |
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| 14:34.02 | ojwb | I'd not add it to the abstract though |
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| 14:34.09 | ojwb | that would look a bit odd |
| 14:34.13 | psofa | yeah :P |
| 14:34.14 | PearlJam | yes dont do that. that would look *cheap*. |
| 14:34.30 | ojwb | it's shown to the world as a summary of what you're doing |
| 14:34.30 | PearlJam | i added it in the summary, just a simple line that X has agreed to mentor this projec.t |
| 14:34.44 | ojwb | see the 2008 site - I guess it'll be quite similar in that regard |
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| 14:47.08 | mib_j0ashw7l | how to view organization through language |
| 14:47.22 | danderson | !orgbylang |
| 14:47.22 | socinfo | "orgbylang" is 2009 list is work in progress: http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/bundle:Languages |
| 14:47.46 | straszheim | use case: a student is doing a good job discussing project ideas on the mailing list, and has a few experienced developers interested, and some semiexperienced. Some of these semiexperienced developers aren't mentors but want to be able to see the proposals and discuss |
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| 14:48.25 | summatusmentis | straszheim: I do't see the issue... |
| 14:48.39 | straszheim | only mentors can see the current list of proposals, correct? |
| 14:48.54 | summatusmentis | yes |
| 14:49.11 | straszheim | this inhibits open discussion |
| 14:49.18 | summatusmentis | that said, you could ask the students to allow their papers to be read by the community |
| 14:49.22 | thomastc | straszheim: unfinished proposals are often put on the wiki of the corresponding project |
| 14:49.50 | summatusmentis | I posted a link to my current proposal in the channel of my org to allow for more feedback |
| 14:49.50 | ojwb | um, did this discussion just start in the middle? |
| 14:49.55 | ojwb | or switch channels? |
| 14:49.59 | ojwb | or is my client being odd? |
| 14:50.13 | straszheim | after that I went to the store and bought some cake. |
| 14:50.24 | thomastc | ojwb: it's not you :) |
| 14:50.30 | ojwb | ok |
| 14:50.34 | aghisla | wow cake |
| 14:50.38 | straszheim | heh |
| 14:50.43 | thomastc | it's all a lie |
| 14:51.05 | dannyb | please keep us updated on all these important development |
| 14:51.11 | dannyb | s |
| 14:51.16 | summatusmentis | ow is this starting in the middle? |
| 14:51.19 | summatusmentis | how* |
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| 14:51.26 | straszheim | i was simulating a discussion that started in the middle. |
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| 14:52.07 | ojwb | decides it's way past his bedtime |
| 14:52.12 | alexander_ | j |
| 14:52.15 | ojwb | or perhaps way past everyone else's |
| 14:52.27 | straszheim | that's kind of a PITA. So in order to have open discussion on how to refactor several finished proposals that overlap, everybody involve needs to be a mentor, or the finished proposals need to be copied out to a wiki somewhere. |
| 14:52.48 | straszheim | just saying. |
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| 14:53.20 | schumaml | seems to have worked in past years, though |
| 14:53.43 | ojwb | are you suggesting that applications be public? |
| 14:53.47 | ojwb | or able to be made so? |
| 14:53.55 | summatusmentis | it's an intriguing concept |
| 14:54.04 | straszheim | ojwb: that's what it looks like to me at the moment, yes |
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| 14:54.35 | ojwb | it seems a reasonable feature to suggest |
| 14:54.48 | ojwb | so why not make it in the melange tracker? |
| 14:55.11 | ojwb | a significant number of students put theirs up on a wiki or website, so there's clearly wider interest in it |
| 14:55.24 | straszheim | !tracker |
| 14:55.24 | socinfo | Error: "tracker" is not a valid command. |
| 14:55.46 | ojwb | it's in the channel message I think |
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| 14:55.59 | summatusmentis | obviously there needs to be timestamps to ensure non-plagiarism, but yeah |
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| 14:56.36 | ojwb | summatusmentis: that's no different to at present though |
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| 14:57.41 | summatusmentis | ojwb: I suppose so |
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| 14:58.04 | summatusmentis | socinfo: learn newmelangefeature as http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/entry |
| 14:58.04 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
| 14:58.12 | summatusmentis | !newmelangefeature |
| 14:58.12 | socinfo | "newmelangefeature" is http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/entry |
| 14:58.41 | schumaml | would even make detection of plagiarism more easy |
| 14:58.43 | summatusmentis | actually, no |
| 14:58.59 | schumaml | like the "search for duplicates" in bugzilla |
| 14:58.59 | summatusmentis | sorry, talking to the bot, not you schumaml |
| 14:59.14 | summatusmentis | socinfo: forget newmelangefeature |
| 14:59.14 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
| 14:59.30 | summatusmentis | socinfo: learn tracker as http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/list |
| 14:59.30 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
| 14:59.34 | ojwb | was about to say that the name was nearly as long as the url |
| 15:00.00 | summatusmentis | ojwb: I didn't know feature requests and bugs were the same thing |
| 15:00.08 | summatusmentis | so I was trying to be as specific as possible |
| 15:00.13 | ojwb | ah, ok |
| 15:00.40 | ojwb | they usually are |
| 15:00.50 | ojwb | the dividing line is sometimes fuzzy |
| 15:01.09 | summatusmentis | I guess I knew that, but the link from the melange page said "file new feature requests here" |
| 15:01.12 | summatusmentis | or something |
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| 15:02.35 | straszheim | starts inviting the entire mailing list to become mentors... |
| 15:02.53 | summatusmentis | straszheim: easier might be to have students put their apps somewhere |
| 15:02.56 | straszheim | feature req is #458 |
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| 15:04.24 | mib_az4vtc | Are the mentors of MARBLE development available on this channel?? |
| 15:04.45 | ojwb | !anyone |
| 15:04.45 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
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| 15:05.59 | mib_az4vtc | but its mentioned in the contacts that I can speak to the mentors on this channel |
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| 15:07.52 | z4chh | does submitting just one proposal make you look bad at all? |
| 15:08.00 | ojwb | nope |
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| 15:08.14 | ojwb | makes you look committed! |
| 15:08.23 | z4chh | i have an awesome proposal that if it doesn't get accepted...i don't know (what i write) will |
| 15:08.23 | z4chh | ;p |
| 15:09.00 | ojwb | mib_az4vtc: where does it say that? |
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| 15:28.58 | aghisla | see you all! have a nice weekend! |
| 15:29.12 | oak_ | cya |
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| 15:46.55 | devvrat | !silent |
| 15:46.55 | socinfo | Error: "silent" is not a valid command. |
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| 15:53.26 | pankaj-cseitbhu | has anybody installed gephi |
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| 15:59.32 | danderson | tries to control blood pressure while reading through soc-discuss |
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| 16:01.27 | rkirti | !next |
| 16:01.27 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
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| 16:06.47 | ajuonline | hands over a chill pill to dash_ |
| 16:06.53 | ajuonline | hands over a chill pill to danderson |
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| 16:22.07 | jshreve | Hi |
| 16:22.21 | Plastun | hi |
| 16:22.35 | anikethan | !faq |
| 16:22.35 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs |
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| 16:24.12 | jshreve | I have a quick question. I'm a senior in high school this year, graudating soon but am already accepted to college and have taken a class up there. Can I still particpate? |
| 16:24.27 | hypa7ia | jshreve: are you over 18 by april 20? |
| 16:24.38 | jshreve | Yeah. |
| 16:25.01 | hypa7ia | then yes :) |
| 16:25.17 | hypa7ia | also, read the faq ^^ |
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| 16:26.18 | jshreve | Alright, thanks :). I began reading the faq but also wanted to double check in here. |
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| 16:28.27 | Plastun | what principles use gsoc when choose project? count of stuudent application or what else? |
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| 16:28.54 | hypa7ia | !allocations |
| 16:28.54 | socinfo | "allocations" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/studentallocations |
| 16:28.58 | hypa7ia | Plastun: read that |
| 16:29.13 | hypa7ia | also, orgs choose students, not google |
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| 16:29.47 | Plastun | ok, thanks |
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| 16:31.25 | kapax | hey :) |
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| 16:32.58 | anikethan | kapax:hi |
| 16:36.02 | kapax | hi |
| 16:36.09 | kapax | is it possible to participate as a student more than once? |
| 16:36.17 | kapax | i mean in different years |
| 16:36.22 | anikethan | kapax:yes |
| 16:36.23 | kitallis | yeah |
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| 16:37.12 | kapax | ok, that's nice |
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| 16:43.51 | nloko | i couldnt find that answer in the faq, but how is the situation resolved when more than 1 of a student's proposals are accepted? |
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| 16:45.28 | ajuonline | nloko: conflict resolution |
| 16:45.50 | nloko | ajuonline: so, its not students choice? |
| 16:46.01 | ajuonline | it is. i think. student has a say as well. |
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| 16:47.13 | nloko | ajuonline: thx |
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| 16:47.19 | Plastun | how often girls take part is open-source projects? |
| 16:47.43 | p_l | now that's a question... |
| 16:47.46 | p_l | ;-) |
| 16:47.54 | Plastun | ) |
| 16:47.59 | nloko | hahaha |
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| 16:48.34 | rutura1 | Hi |
| 16:48.42 | Plastun | hi |
| 16:48.42 | rutura1 | what is the ptolemy IRC channel? |
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| 16:49.13 | ajuonline | Plastun: www.linuxchix.org |
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| 16:49.42 | p_l | Plastun: also, on the internet, your sex doesn't really matter (at least when it comes to code...) |
| 16:49.51 | ajuonline | vimzard: all set for the meetup tomorro? |
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| 16:50.33 | Plastun | of course, i agree, but ... |
| 16:50.37 | p_l | finally got rid of java project, can now start on proposals... when he gets back lost sleep and travels home :> |
| 16:50.46 | rutura1 | Ptolemy IRC channel? is there one..please? |
| 16:50.57 | rutura1 | need to discuss out some ideas.. |
| 16:51.04 | ajuonline | !where |
| 16:51.04 | socinfo | Error: "where" is not a valid command. |
| 16:51.06 | Plastun | when i see girl and she codes, |
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| 16:52.07 | p_l | rutura1: apparently they don't have one |
| 16:52.27 | rutura1 | so I guess lists are only way to contact them :( |
| 16:52.27 | p_l | Plastun: you what? :) |
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| 16:52.51 | Plastun | ajuonline, cool site! |
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| 16:53.42 | z4chh | are mentor orgs allowed to tell students how many proposals they have? |
| 16:54.03 | Plastun | as i know - no |
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| 16:54.41 | z4chh | Plastun, that stated anywhere? |
| 16:55.12 | Plastun | dont know |
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| 16:56.02 | nloko | z4chh: im pretty sure its in the FAQ. states you can submit up to 20 in any combination. |
| 16:56.07 | z4chh | i was just wondering, that is something for as student to consider...there is inherently a lower probability of getting a proposal accepted as the number of proposals a mentoring org has increases...so it would be wise to submit to other orgs in the case of large amounts of proposals |
| 16:56.21 | homunq | sugarlabs requires all proposals be posted openly on the wiki, though allowing censoring personal details |
| 16:56.41 | homunq | so I certainly hope that making number of applications public knowledge is OK. |
| 16:56.42 | z4chh | nloko, i know that, i was wondering if a mentoring org can tell you how many proposals they have submitted to their org |
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| 16:56.55 | homunq | z4chh: that is NOT TRUE |
| 16:57.18 | nloko | z4chh: oh, i see. sorry. miss read. |
| 16:57.29 | homunq | since number of slots is approximately proportional to number of applications, the probability of getting accepted has no clear relation to number of applications. |
| 16:57.46 | z4chh | homunq, i didn't know that, thanks |
| 16:58.00 | homunq | !slots |
| 16:58.00 | socinfo | "slots" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/studentallocations |
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| 16:58.32 | vimzard | ajuonline: yello. kinda, i mean, am i supposed "prepare"? and btw, kstars just packed for home |
| 16:58.47 | z4chh | i suppose that would make the number of proposals irrevelevent to chances of being accepted |
| 16:58.55 | ajuonline | vimzard: make sure, to kick him from my side whenever he is back. |
| 16:59.04 | vimzard | ajuonline: :-P |
| 16:59.23 | ajuonline | i will call you guys when I reach chennai |
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| 17:00.10 | homunq | in fact, if you egotistically think your proposal should justly be accepted, it is in your rational interest to encourage more applications to your org. This would decrease the chance that you'd get rejected because the applications to your org are all above average, just by chance. |
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| 17:01.31 | ajuonline | !orgbylang |
| 17:01.31 | socinfo | "orgbylang" is 2009 list is work in progress: http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/bundle:Languages |
| 17:01.57 | z4chh | homunq, because the applications to your org all all avove average ..what do you mean? |
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| 17:03.58 | ajuonline | vimzard: sup3rkiddo said, theres a lug meeting two buildings away. and asked if we could club both. what say? |
| 17:04.09 | homunq | z4chh: say the average application gsoc-wide has quality q, and each org gets a random sample of those applications. The quality for a given org will deviate randomly from q. If it is higher, some "good enough" applications for that org will be rejected. The bigger the number of applications, the smaller the deviations, the fewer "good enough" apps rejected. |
| 17:04.11 | vimzard | ajuonline: ah, i don't think i have time for both |
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| 17:04.28 | vimzard | ajuonline: (i also think this goes to ##gsoc-india) |
| 17:04.37 | ajuonline | oO |
| 17:04.39 | homunq | this is a simplistic model, but it makes the point. |
| 17:05.07 | IwikiwI | homunq++ |
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| 17:07.56 | z4chh | homunq, does google count all applications, or unique applications? |
| 17:08.07 | z4chh | unique as in...different people |
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| 17:08.36 | homunq | z4chh: neither. I think it counts "non-spam" applications, as in, applications with a serious amount of thought behind them. |
| 17:08.37 | scorche | i wouldnt get hung up on it, but there is a link on the sidebar of the site that you can click on to get more information |
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| 17:09.09 | z4chh | i see that is good, because what if 10 people submit 20 applications each? |
| 17:09.14 | homunq | z4chh: two serious apps for an org from one person can indeed, I believe, tend to increase the slots for that org. |
| 17:09.27 | homunq | nobody is going to submit 20 serious applications. |
| 17:09.53 | z4chh | homunq, unless google didn't check for spam-apps..and this slot rule still applied >.< |
| 17:10.24 | homunq | s/serious/serious/ |
| 17:10.35 | homunq | awww. bot too smart for me. |
| 17:10.49 | scorche | z4chh: dont worry about it...it will work out in the end |
| 17:11.03 | z4chh | thanks scorche <3 |
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| 17:11.54 | z4chh | homunq, does google actually give orgs a quality "q"? |
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| 17:16.31 | homunq | z4chh: no. That was just a model, to explain what I meant. |
| 17:16.48 | pumphaus | I'm still in school and would like to take part in gsoc this year., faq says it's possible if I meet the other requierements. what should I give as major subject and expected graduation year in the student application form? |
| 17:17.07 | homunq | still wondering why no students have expressed interest in the coolest idea on our ideas list --- http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Project_Ideas#Versioned_Datastore |
| 17:18.06 | p_l | homunq: they are afraid? |
| 17:18.39 | psofa | anyone else having problems with the proposal editor form? |
| 17:18.46 | newt | pumphaus... that should be self explanatory for students |
| 17:18.51 | homunq | p_l: you're probably right, but the point is that the hard part is done already, so they shouldn't be. |
| 17:19.03 | psofa | i cant ident parts and underline doesnt seem to work |
| 17:19.29 | homunq | !bugs |
| 17:19.29 | socinfo | "bugs" is Melange bugs are tracked at http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/list |
| 17:19.31 | p_l | homunq: from my pov, depending on the level of complexity in OLPC, a versioned datastore is ~1month of fulltime work to get into somehow usable shape... |
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| 17:19.33 | BCarlyon|Server | homunq, not my area of code |
| 17:20.02 | homunq | psova - look at bugs link |
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| 17:21.21 | homunq | p_l: but that's the part that's done already. The missing part is the UI to go with it. (also, sugarlabs, not OLPC) |
| 17:21.49 | p_l | homunq: I wanted to write olpcfs ;-) |
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| 17:22.35 | newt | you could try updating the spec, 'cause it sounds like everything needs to be done from scratch |
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| 17:23.14 | homunq | p_l: if you think you could do a better job than cscott has, we'd love to see a proposal... btw, this has probably now gone off topic here now, reply in #sugar. |
| 17:23.20 | homunq | newt: OK. |
| 17:23.41 | pumphaus | newt: the point is that I'm not studying yet. I count school as a "pre-university educational program" so I won't graduate and I don't have a major subject (well, something similar you could say) |
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| 17:25.10 | newt | then I'd say undecided, and either 'unknown' or the year you're going to start college + 4 |
| 17:25.36 | pumphaus | ok |
| 17:25.41 | newt | not sure what the party line on the subject is though |
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| 17:26.57 | omniter | good afternoooon. how's everyone? |
| 17:27.22 | oak_ | i dont know about everyone but im great :) |
| 17:27.43 | omniter | wanna share the good news? |
| 17:27.47 | omniter | or you just in a good mood |
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| 17:29.22 | oak_ | no no good news |
| 17:29.29 | oak_ | im in good mood |
| 17:29.36 | oak_ | in fact |
| 17:29.36 | p_l | executes 18h ban on caffeine for himself >_< |
| 17:29.48 | oak_ | good news are that im enjoying my life :) |
| 17:30.24 | omniter | oak_, that's good. :) you a student? applied to anything yet? |
| 17:30.38 | oak_ | yeah im choosing projects right now |
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| 17:30.51 | newt | p_l: it wont work |
| 17:30.55 | oak_ | deciding between crystalspace/ogre/battle for wesnoth |
| 17:31.18 | omniter | oak_, why not apply to all of them? |
| 17:31.25 | oak_ | propably for more of them though |
| 17:31.29 | oak_ | right |
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| 17:31.39 | oak_ | but theres much work to do before applying imo |
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| 17:32.04 | p_l | newt: why? |
| 17:32.14 | newt | you'll succumb to the temptation |
| 17:32.24 | omniter | oak_, naw man, apply now, and make revisions. |
| 17:32.25 | newt | and/or forget in about 12 hrs |
| 17:32.28 | omniter | make yourself known to the orgs |
| 17:32.48 | p_l | newt: if I'll be awake in 12h then caffeine will be welcome, not banned |
| 17:33.30 | oak_ | yeah well just that part of making some schedule of project take big load of time |
| 17:33.30 | newt | :P |
| 17:33.30 | oak_ | applied last year for crystalspace |
| 17:33.30 | oak_ | spend like a week on it |
| 17:33.30 | omniter | d'you make it? |
| 17:33.30 | oak_ | but wasnt accepted |
| 17:33.31 | omniter | did they say why? |
| 17:33.59 | oak_ | well that guy said that he'll give some info |
| 17:34.06 | oak_ | but then long time nothing |
| 17:34.15 | oak_ | so i just went to do other stuff |
| 17:34.25 | oak_ | wasnt exactly happy about it |
| 17:34.30 | omniter | your schedule is seriously not as important as your experience, your skills and just... how you sell yourself. |
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| 17:34.34 | oak_ | so i didnt want to bother by it anymore |
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| 17:34.50 | omniter | they don't expect a perfect schedule. no matter how long you spend on it, they're gonna change it anyway. |
| 17:35.24 | omniter | so just say what you have to say about yourself, work out a reasonable schedule, and send it in so they have more time to give you feedback |
| 17:35.24 | omniter | that's my advice. |
| 17:35.45 | oak_ | i know ... its just... it seem to me that i have to have pretty clear image about what i will be doing |
| 17:35.57 | oak_ | i mean i have picture of it in my head |
| 17:36.00 | Catfish_Man | that is a good idea, yes |
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| 17:36.04 | oak_ | but its blur and foggy :) |
| 17:36.07 | omniter | unless you already work for them, or you have a spy, that's perfectly normal, oak_ |
| 17:36.19 | omniter | which is why it's impossible to have a perfect schedule. |
| 17:36.31 | p_l | newt: I'm starting to show signs of blood in my coffeestream. And I need to get some sleep so that I don't fall over like last time |
| 17:36.31 | omniter | and which is why you should spend more effort on how you present YOU. |
| 17:36.44 | newt | o_o |
| 17:36.59 | oak_ | thats sounds reasonable |
| 17:37.02 | Catfish_Man | omniter: we've gotten people saying "I want to work on a project, not sure what" ... that didn't go over so well |
| 17:37.12 | oak_ | ill try to be not much of a chicken a be more manly :) |
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| 17:37.23 | omniter | Catfish_Man, well yeah, i don't think oak_ is THAT clueless. |
| 17:37.34 | omniter | if you're that clueless, you've got a shitload of work to do. |
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| 17:38.12 | oak_ | btw this is my proposal from last year http://www.stud.fit.vutbr.cz/~xfadrh00/gsoc/gsoc_app.html |
| 17:38.34 | p_l | afk - getting some bread |
| 17:38.39 | omniter | oak_, did you at least get in touch with your orgs of interested in ANY way? |
| 17:38.49 | omniter | like talk to them in their forums or IRC channels? |
| 17:39.19 | oak_ | i started today joining irc channels and im reading idea list and deciding what i want to do |
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| 17:39.53 | omniter | if you're not already an active member of their community, you're already at a disadvantage. not getting started now while you still have a bit of time is foolish. |
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| 17:40.34 | oak_ | yeah but first i have to choose something before im going to discuss it with mentors |
| 17:40.58 | dberkholz | i wish someone would submit a project to gnu to make fortran90 support not suck for automake/gfortran |
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| 17:44.25 | ArthurLiu | dberkholz: disappointed by the flow of proposals ? |
| 17:44.48 | dberkholz | ArthurLiu: no, disappointed by how crap automake is for fortran code. no dependency tracking |
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| 17:45.15 | dberkholz | autotooling a package does not give the expected benefits |
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| 17:46.57 | forcebrute | can anybody help installation with gephi |
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| 17:47.27 | forcebrute | anybody gephi |
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| 17:47.34 | forcebrute | anybody gephi |
| 17:47.37 | Catfish_Man | forcebrute: this is really the wrong channel for installation help |
| 17:47.56 | forcebrute | k |
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| 17:49.44 | irahul | !orgbylang |
| 17:49.44 | socinfo | "orgbylang" is 2009 list is work in progress: http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/bundle:Languages |
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| 17:54.53 | omniter | hey guys, when i submit my application, my org will be notified right? |
| 17:55.02 | omniter | or is it just made "available" |
| 17:55.31 | Catfish_Man | omniter: it's added to the list |
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| 17:56.07 | brlcad | they'll eventually see it when they look at the application list, they don't get an e-mail notification though |
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| 17:56.25 | omniter | oh... so if the org wants to see it, they just go and check themselves? would it be rude if i give them a heads-up in the forums or something? |
| 17:56.39 | brlcad | omniter: they probably already know |
| 17:56.41 | Catfish_Man | omniter: they'll be reading everything on their list |
| 17:56.47 | brlcad | that list gets looked at many times a day |
| 17:56.48 | Catfish_Man | they have to, to rank them and comment on them |
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| 17:57.51 | omniter | ah okay. =) |
| 17:58.57 | omniter | it's just that i've posted mine 2 days ago and got no comments yet, so i was just curious. but i guess that's normal. |
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| 17:59.13 | Catfish_Man | omniter: there's probably private comments |
| 17:59.28 | omniter | private comments? :| how would i check those? |
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| 17:59.46 | Catfish_Man | you can't |
| 17:59.50 | omniter | oh LOL |
| 17:59.51 | Catfish_Man | that's kinda the point of them |
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| 18:00.06 | omniter | oh i thought private meant other people can't see them. |
| 18:00.18 | omniter | i guess public means i can, and private means only they can |
| 18:00.21 | omniter | that makes sense |
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| 18:27.29 | owned | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hog9qGjT0Pw owned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| 18:27.53 | owned | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hog9qGjT0Pw owned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 18:27.55 | owned | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hog9qGjT0Pw owned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 18:27.57 | owned | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hog9qGjT0Pw owned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| 18:28.05 | Catfish_Man | sighs |
| 18:28.14 | dannyb | i feel |
| 18:28.15 | dannyb | so |
| 18:28.16 | dannyb | uh |
| 18:28.17 | dannyb | owned |
| 18:28.31 | dannyb | no way |
| 18:28.33 | dannyb | no i don't |
| 18:28.41 | lh | lol |
| 18:28.49 | lh | waves to dannyb |
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| 18:29.03 | dannyb | love you lh |
| 18:29.04 | dannyb | come visit |
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| 18:29.09 | dannyb | i just sold my house on tuesday |
| 18:29.12 | BCarlyon|Server | OWNED |
| 18:29.12 | dannyb | inspection is tomorrow |
| 18:29.13 | BCarlyon|Server | OWNED |
| 18:29.13 | BCarlyon|Server | OWNED |
| 18:29.14 | BCarlyon|Server | OWNED |
| 18:29.15 | dannyb | close April 29th |
| 18:29.15 | BCarlyon|Server | stops |
| 18:29.28 | *** kick/#gsoc [BCarlyon|Server!n=dannyb@c-69-139-146-16.hsd1.md.comcast.net] by dannyb (Speaking of servers, you just got served) |
| 18:29.34 | *** join/#gsoc BCarlyon|Server (n=Bcarlyon@uni-pc254.leeds.ac.uk) |
| 18:29.36 | BCarlyon|Server | cries |
| 18:29.47 | BCarlyon|Server | no tea or hot beverags for you dannyb |
| 18:30.00 | *** part/#gsoc AlekSi (n=AlekSi@star.mlzone.ru) |
| 18:30.22 | *** join/#gsoc ArthurLiu (i=507db07b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-25eba0dc9608e778) |
| 18:31.34 | *** join/#gsoc tiagoserra_ (n=tiagoser@87.196.121.177) |
| 18:31.46 | dberkholz | hmm, are other folks getting many proposals? |
| 18:32.09 | dberkholz | xorg and gentoo are both unusually low |
| 18:32.13 | BCarlyon|Server | I just dropped my initial proposal on my projects wiki, like another student has, need to flesh it out a lot |
| 18:32.18 | ArthurLiu | dberkholz: no (debian project) |
| 18:32.34 | BCarlyon|Server | you do know students like to leave it to the last minute :-) |
| 18:32.36 | ArthurLiu | I suppose it's the financial crisis or something |
| 18:32.41 | BCarlyon|Server | I applied in the extension period last year. |
| 18:32.58 | BCarlyon|Server | I nearly missed the deadline, I was a later starter to GSoC. |
| 18:33.15 | Chainsaw | dberkholz: I'm hoping for a last minute rush, yes. |
| 18:33.20 | *** join/#gsoc saurabh1403 (n=doppelg@59.178.32.167) |
| 18:33.22 | Chainsaw | dberkholz: It's very quiet for us as well. |
| 18:33.27 | Chainsaw | dberkholz: (Us being atheme.org) |
| 18:33.44 | dberkholz | maybe i need to announce it harder. |
| 18:33.47 | *** join/#gsoc devvrat (i=ca034d0b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e044b350118030e5) |
| 18:33.48 | Chainsaw | But perhaps all prospective applicants are busily tapping away at the code challenges. |
| 18:33.49 | Chainsaw | Who knows. |
| 18:34.42 | homunq | Quiet here too, though it's our first year; but sugarlabs has fewer now than OLPC had last year. I thought it was just specific factors about our vs OLPC's mindshare. |
| 18:35.05 | ahuillet | dberkholz : unusually low by how much? |
| 18:35.10 | psofa | dberkholz, tbh i didnt see any good idea for gentoo even though im a gentoo user |
| 18:35.17 | dberkholz | ahuillet: like 10% of our last year's final total |
| 18:35.22 | dberkholz | for both orgs |
| 18:35.27 | borja | We (Globus) haven't even received any applications yet |
| 18:35.29 | ArthurLiu | we did make efforts to step up the promotion at Debian, twitter, identi.ca, posters at universities in multiple languages, a better wiki page, more admins on IRC.. |
| 18:35.30 | ahuillet | did X even get 10 applications ? :) |
| 18:35.33 | borja | Although we've had several students express interest |
| 18:35.47 | BCarlyon|Server | Hmm I've not checked planet soc yet this year |
| 18:35.49 | dberkholz | xorg has 0 that are actually applied, although mentors are talking offline with a few |
| 18:35.50 | *** part/#gsoc koryk (n=koryk@unaffiliated/koryk) |
| 18:35.51 | lh | homunq: is there a hashtag for sugar labs y'all use on twitter? |
| 18:36.07 | dberkholz | psofa: that's when you get creative and think of your own. =) |
| 18:36.17 | dberkholz | the top-rated idea last year was not on the ideas page |
| 18:36.18 | BCarlyon|Server | Twitter ftw |
| 18:36.18 | Chainsaw | Let me check where we are actually. I remember 1 application that will need a *lot* of work if it is to be considered. |
| 18:36.21 | homunq | is a twitterh8r and an old fogey, sorry. |
| 18:36.25 | Chainsaw | (It was more an expression of interest then a proposal) |
| 18:36.28 | lh | homunq: no worries |
| 18:36.37 | lh | homunq: http://www.masshightech.com/stories/2009/03/23/weekly3-Google-promotes-summer-open-source-internships.html |
| 18:36.55 | BCarlyon|Server | Boo planet soc is down :-( |
| 18:37.01 | *** join/#gsoc MaxM (n=MaxM@wsip-98-173-48-39.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 18:37.01 | Chainsaw | I do not appreciate these tunnels. It makes my internet cut out. |
| 18:37.07 | ahuillet | dberkholz : out of curiosity, what was said top-rated idea? |
| 18:37.11 | Chainsaw | (I'm on a train) |
| 18:37.18 | Chainsaw | Ah, there we go. |
| 18:37.24 | Chainsaw | We have 3, 2 of which look viable. |
| 18:37.40 | ArthurLiu | Chainsaw: ha you too ? I'm in a bullet train right now :) |
| 18:37.46 | BCarlyon|Server | Is lh lh on twitter? |
| 18:37.55 | dberkholz | ahuillet: this autoconfiguring livecd for high-performance clustering, with a very well thought-out and well-written proposal |
| 18:38.35 | borja | BCarlyon|Server: lhawthorn on twitter, lh on identi.ca |
| 18:38.36 | Chainsaw | ArthurLiu: I'm on the East Coast Main Line, travelling between Peterborough & London :) |
| 18:38.40 | dberkholz | it could partially be the couple of requirements gentoo added, too. i know other orgs have said their garbage-app count dropped quite a bit when they did this |
| 18:39.02 | Chainsaw | dberkholz: We've been explicit about requiring a code challenge, yes. |
| 18:39.23 | BCarlyon|Server | borja, ty |
| 18:40.07 | ahuillet | Chainsaw : I don't know about others, but the code challenge thing *might* not only be killing garbage-apps |
| 18:40.27 | Chainsaw | ahuillet: The two I see now are high quality. |
| 18:40.30 | BCarlyon|Server | adds #gsoc as a search on tweetdeck |
| 18:40.38 | lh | lh on twitter is someone in qatar with 16 followers. le sigh. |
| 18:40.57 | BCarlyon|Server | That sucks |
| 18:41.00 | ahuillet | Chainsaw : read again. I am implying your filter might have "false positive" |
| 18:41.09 | BCarlyon|Server | Im the 57th most followed confirmed radio person in the UK |
| 18:41.10 | BCarlyon|Server | Woot. |
| 18:41.29 | ArthurLiu | Chainsaw: between the french alps and Paris, my GPS says 313km/hr right now (that's 196mi/hr) |
| 18:41.30 | dberkholz | i can't decide whether to sleep tonight |
| 18:41.32 | ArthurLiu | dberkholz: we have no garbage app in the gsoc app, but only 5 applications.. |
| 18:41.32 | ArthurLiu | all 5 of them are workable, plus about 3 being discussed offline I know of |
| 18:41.44 | *** join/#gsoc devilsadvocate (n=devilsad@202.3.77.11) |
| 18:41.47 | dberkholz | yeah, our -soc mailing list is very busy |
| 18:41.55 | dberkholz | just not seeing the apps yet |
| 18:41.57 | *** join/#gsoc gobbo (n=ramnikar@202.3.77.11) |
| 18:42.18 | Chainsaw | ahuillet: I must say I have one very enthusiastic student working on the challenge, a student from last year writing her proposal (challenge received & OK) and another student from last year working on a challenge. |
| 18:42.41 | Chainsaw | ahuillet: So I'm not giving up hope. Just agreeing that the rate of applications does indeed appear lower. |
| 18:42.59 | Ori_B | tries to figure out what goes into an application letter for a J1 work visa... |
| 18:43.06 | ArthurLiu | lh: a theory about the Great Students Disappearance Syndrome ? |
| 18:43.13 | BCarlyon|Server | At the moment I'm looking at applying for two or three different orgs, just not had the time this week to get on it properly. |
| 18:43.35 | *** join/#gsoc Yexo (i=Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl) |
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| 18:44.10 | Chainsaw | Approaching London so I shall be signing out soon. |
| 18:44.13 | *** join/#gsoc jmole (n=jmole@74.196.227.232) |
| 18:44.35 | dberkholz | i need to head downstairs and eat dinner at the hotel restaurant. only place i know they speak english here in lyon.. |
| 18:45.07 | *** join/#gsoc nabith (i=ca034d0b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3b8c5e47cfee70a7) |
| 18:45.07 | brlcad | you don't need english, you just need a menu with pictures |
| 18:45.22 | ahuillet | pictures? heh |
| 18:45.23 | lh | ArthurLiu: go for it, or did you want me to theorize? |
| 18:45.37 | brlcad | hello lh |
| 18:45.38 | ahuillet | lh: he wanted you to theorize |
| 18:45.44 | *** join/#gsoc gaveen (n=gaveen@124.43.34.164) |
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| 18:46.02 | lh | brlcad: and hail unto thee |
| 18:46.07 | brlcad | happy friday and weekend to thee, m'lady |
| 18:46.13 | *** join/#gsoc sid0 (n=sid0@unaffiliated/sid0) |
| 18:46.21 | *** join/#gsoc kashyap (n=kashyap@59.92.150.126) |
| 18:46.26 | lh | curtsies, sits on free couch, starts theorizing |
| 18:46.44 | lh | 1) student overcommits either in terms of what they are capable of doing or other commitments (work, social, etc.) |
| 18:46.58 | lh | easier to disappear and not admit fault then stand up and say "I screwed up" |
| 18:47.00 | Chainsaw | dberkholz: Can you take notes of this? It's interesting but I have to leave now. |
| 18:47.23 | lh | 2) student has troubles, fails to communicate them due to embarassment, again easier to walk away than to say I don't know. |
| 18:47.47 | BCarlyon|Server | Chainsaw, its logger |
| 18:47.49 | BCarlyon|Server | !logs |
| 18:47.49 | socinfo | "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc |
| 18:47.50 | dberkholz | Chainsaw: i'm just leaving too |
| 18:47.52 | BCarlyon|Server | :-) |
| 18:47.59 | lh | 3) student thinks they can move mountains in the last few days before an evaluation and tries to do so, usually with epic fail |
| 18:48.00 | Chainsaw | BCarlyon: You have logs. Excellent. |
| 18:48.03 | dberkholz | it's 8pm, time for dinner =) |
| 18:48.11 | lh | in fact i know of no time it was not epic fail |
| 18:48.15 | lh | dberkholz: enjoy! |
| 18:48.22 | ahuillet | lh : we were talking about the disapperance of applicants actually, not "students" |
| 18:48.23 | MTsoul | !dance |
| 18:48.23 | socinfo | Error: "dance" is not a valid command. |
| 18:48.30 | MTsoul | !funny |
| 18:48.30 | socinfo | Error: "funny" is not a valid command. |
| 18:48.36 | p_l | lh: ... last few days before evaluation for a gsoc-scale project!? |
| 18:48.37 | MTsoul | what does socinfo know? |
| 18:48.42 | lh | ahuillet: applicants are disappearing? that's odd. have you tried emailing them directly? |
| 18:48.54 | *** join/#gsoc kittipat (n=chatzill@vpn2-059.vpn.net.ed.ac.uk) |
| 18:48.55 | lh | p_l: this is not a good choice. :) |
| 18:48.57 | ahuillet | sorry bad phrasing.. low application count |
| 18:49.14 | ahuillet | not people applying and disappearing, but nobody actually applying |
| 18:49.17 | BCarlyon|Server | It might just be that we are being lazy..... |
| 18:49.27 | ThomasWaldmann | ahuillet: students play last minute |
| 18:49.32 | dberkholz | maybe the webapp needs more usability testing. =X |
| 18:49.35 | MTsoul | !google |
| 18:49.35 | socinfo | "google" is not the cosmic cash machine people think it is. |
| 18:49.39 | BCarlyon|Server | agreed ThomasWaldmann |
| 18:49.42 | smtms | students rely on Google extending the deadline perhaps? |
| 18:49.44 | Catfish_Man | MTsoul: could you not do that please? |
| 18:49.56 | MTsoul | Catfish_Man: I'll try :) |
| 18:49.59 | Yexo | are there logs from today? |
| 18:49.59 | *** join/#gsoc jmole (n=jmole@74.196.227.232) |
| 18:50.07 | lh | smtms: this may be possible |
| 18:50.11 | Yexo | the !logs comment give a link to a page that has logs up to yesterday |
| 18:50.20 | ahuillet | the timing for applications is short but definitely long enough I would say |
| 18:50.29 | p_l | lh: Well, I am known to waste time before assignments, but when the thing is a java monster, often with *bad* spec you *have* to follow, while being actually trivial, it's a given. But GSoC!? |
| 18:50.29 | *** join/#gsoc jbartosik (n=joszi@aatn199.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 18:50.42 | ThomasWaldmann | ahuillet: and for applications, I think this is pretty much a valid and good behaviour - if they use the time to prepare their app somehow "offline" |
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| 18:51.02 | bobbens | students will submit at last moment |
| 18:51.04 | bobbens | like last year |
| 18:51.43 | ThomasWaldmann | it's something different if they play last-minute at midterm and final eval |
| 18:51.45 | p_l | was taken with a hectic week at uni, will start full-scale proposal writing & sending tommorrow... |
| 18:52.02 | dhaun | application count is low, but not worryingly so |
| 18:52.11 | dhaun | plus we raised the bar for entry a bit |
| 18:52.29 | lh | p_l: never underestimate the power to procrastinate coupled with the youthful feeling of invincibility |
| 18:52.36 | *** join/#gsoc jbartosik (n=joszi@aatn199.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 18:52.48 | bobbens | i don't recall that much trouble with midterm/final eval |
| 18:52.51 | p_l | lh: Never underestimate the effects of blood in your caffeinestream ^^; |
| 18:52.53 | *** join/#gsoc ArthurLiu (i=507db07b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0816861a9a73b90f) |
| 18:52.55 | bobbens | but for the application yes |
| 18:53.01 | bobbens | I know I still have to write mine :P |
| 18:53.03 | lh | p_l: i dont. why do you think i drink so much of it? |
| 18:53.17 | *** join/#gsoc codestasher (n=silent@210.212.160.101) |
| 18:53.17 | Yexo | how many students actually apply each year? The faq said that +- 1000 students are accepted, but not how many apply |
| 18:53.42 | psofa | yeah got the same question |
| 18:53.46 | *** join/#gsoc lagolas (n=harsh@202.3.77.11) |
| 18:53.59 | Ori_B | Yexo: I think it was just over 3000 last year |
| 18:54.11 | Catfish_Man | my memory is ~7500 last year |
| 18:54.21 | bobbens | applications or unique students? |
| 18:54.25 | p_l | lh: humans unfortunately don't fare with uptimes longer than 48h... |
| 18:54.42 | Ori_B | bobbens: I think 7500 is number of applications, and 3000 was unique students |
| 18:54.44 | Ori_B | but I could be wrong |
| 18:54.56 | Yexo | ah, thanks for the info |
| 18:55.17 | *** part/#gsoc Mkop2 (n=Mkop2@seasnet-38-176.seas.upenn.edu) |
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| 18:56.11 | ArthurLiu | lh: (big tunnel, just got the log I missed pastebined) I was referring to the surprising low number of applications this year, even when excluding garbage applications.. |
| 18:56.14 | *** part/#gsoc amitav (n=amitav@122.50.132.237) |
| 18:56.53 | Landon | gosh, I still have $8.75 on my card |
| 18:57.07 | Landon | time to splurge at the convenience store! |
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| 19:00.41 | BCarlyon|Server | Lol Landon |
| 19:00.56 | BCarlyon|Server | I'd better check I spent all mine/cleared my off the card. |
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| 19:01.34 | BCarlyon|Server | Genetservice is the only way to check isnt it. |
| 19:01.44 | Landon | you can call the # |
| 19:01.45 | Landon | automated system |
| 19:01.56 | smtms | Landon, do you count the extra $15 Google put on your card for covering fees? |
| 19:02.01 | *** join/#gsoc _slacker_ (n=mauro@50.33.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 19:02.05 | BCarlyon|Server | Available Credit: nill |
| 19:02.12 | BCarlyon|Server | Woot spent all mine |
| 19:02.22 | BCarlyon|Server | Well put most of it in savings |
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| 19:02.46 | Landon | smtms: I thought that was taken out earlier orsomething |
| 19:03.08 | p_l | what card? |
| 19:03.09 | ArthurLiu | I had to convert all the dollars on my gsoc card in euros, and was left with nothing.. |
| 19:03.12 | *** join/#gsoc itamarjp (n=itamar@187-032-068-225.static.ctbctelecom.com.br) |
| 19:03.27 | eliel | !next |
| 19:03.27 | socinfo | "next" is Student application period has now started, and runs until April 3rd at 19:00 UTC (12:00 PST) (countdown: http://tinyurl.com/dzlmpj ). Students, apply now at http://tinyurl.com/cznmrx. |
| 19:03.42 | Landon | p_l: we were paid with prepaid cards last year |
| 19:03.52 | p_l | heh |
| 19:04.06 | p_l | Visa system? |
| 19:04.07 | Landon | still doesn't have it all in his bank yet |
| 19:04.16 | Landon | mastercard I think |
| 19:04.31 | Landon | somewhere inmy roomis $1000 in 20s |
| 19:04.35 | Landon | :P |
| 19:04.39 | Landon | hookers and blackjack, anyone? |
| 19:04.48 | p_l | Landon: but still recognized as "full" card? |
| 19:05.04 | p_l | has found that british banks love issuing "crippled" cards |
| 19:05.16 | Landon | yeah |
| 19:05.20 | Landon | still a full credit card |
| 19:05.26 | p_l | nice |
| 19:05.33 | Landon | <3 |
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| 19:05.39 | Landon | guess I have to start using my discover now :< |
| 19:05.55 | Landon | which has about a 50% acceptance rate from what I've seen :P |
| 19:05.58 | p_l | it certainly will make it easier to withdraw... Paypal + wire transfer to my bank took _4_ days |
| 19:06.11 | *** join/#gsoc steegf (n=fsteeg@xdsl-78-34-200-44.netcologne.de) |
| 19:06.17 | Landon | p_l: with ATM limits it'll take you 4 days to withdraw it all |
| 19:06.18 | Landon | :P |
| 19:06.31 | p_l | is used to have all transfers done in <=24h |
| 19:06.32 | BCarlyon|Server | Just totalled up everything I spent. I hate exchange rates and card costs. |
| 19:06.38 | ArthurLiu | discovered that in Belgium, nobody takes VISA... FOSDEM was complicated.. |
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| 19:11.06 | dho_plan9 | ArthurLiu: It's difficult to find someone to take VISA in Holland as well. |
| 19:11.54 | dho_plan9 | p_l: Doing a bank-to-bank EFT from my bank account in Holland when I was there to my account in the US took 2 weeks, during which the money didn't exist in either account. |
| 19:12.10 | *** join/#gsoc Dragonking (n=dk@wesnoth/developer/dragonking) |
| 19:12.38 | Erant | 2 weeks. |
| 19:12.39 | Erant | Woah |
| 19:13.21 | *** part/#gsoc gangil (i=75600c51@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-bbaa9046401d908b) |
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| 19:13.35 | dhaun | http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/03/drupalcon-dc.html :) |
| 19:13.37 | BCarlyon|Server | Crikey two weeks! o.0 |
| 19:13.44 | dhaun | all hail dmitrig01 |
| 19:13.46 | p_l | dho_plan9: bank-to-bank transfer _inside_ UK takes *at least* 3 days |
| 19:14.23 | dmitrig01 | :D |
| 19:14.23 | *** join/#gsoc durinbot (n=durinbot@adsl-76-197-243-84.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:14.23 | *** join/#gsoc mait (n=user@174.232.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee) |
| 19:14.23 | *** join/#gsoc spearce (n=spearce@216.239.45.4) |
| 19:14.23 | p_l | also, apparently it's normal here for one company to pay another with mailed cheque |
| 19:14.25 | *** join/#gsoc Carutsu (n=quassel@189.220.126.124) |
| 19:14.45 | dmitrig01 | goes away now |
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| 19:15.20 | p_l | goes off to take his laundry back. Then sleep :) |
| 19:17.33 | BCarlyon|Server | Well time to go run the nightclub laters all |
| 19:19.54 | *** join/#gsoc Azkar (n=sean@rh-116-202.johnstown.resnet.pitt.edu) |
| 19:20.22 | EricJ | feels slightly stressed about the upcoming deadline. |
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| 19:20.30 | nuba | in brazil it can take 45 DAYS for a bank to process a foreign check |
| 19:20.51 | nuba | plus some extra fees, last time I checked it was about USD50 |
| 19:21.22 | EricJ | There's tax to it as well, I reckon? |
| 19:21.52 | nuba | i think it depends on how you file that in your annual tax form |
| 19:22.04 | *** join/#gsoc Miis (n=Miis@189.71.53.182) |
| 19:22.25 | nuba | if its from a person, you can claim its personal |
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| 19:22.50 | homunq | wow. I thought 10 working days in Guatemala was bad. |
| 19:22.52 | nuba | if its from a company, then you'll most certainly pay a tax as money earned from performing work or services |
| 19:23.44 | nuba | homunq: thats for foreign checks only, brazilian checks get processed in 3 to 5 business days |
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| 19:37.01 | Garfeild | hi folks) |
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| 19:38.26 | zounds | Hello |
| 19:41.51 | balki | I wish to be a student in SOC, can i give new ideas or select ideas given by mentors? |
| 19:42.11 | dhaun | balki: depends on the orgs, but usually both |
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| 19:43.21 | smtms | balki, both - just make sure you discuss any original idea of yours with the community and/or the potential mentors |
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| 19:49.45 | dberkholz | mm, that was a good dinner |
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| 19:52.31 | EricJ | Erhm, any google-savy person here that knows if the primary email on my google account can be changed? |
| 19:54.48 | balki | thank u |
| 19:55.29 | Landon | EricJ: I think I had this problem last year, and no it can't |
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| 19:56.53 | EricJ | Oh, bugger. |
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| 19:57.02 | EricJ | Landon: Well, thanks anyway. |
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| 19:59.39 | EricJ | Landon: Aha, found it -- it's possible. :) |
| 20:02.28 | Landon | really? |
| 20:02.28 | Landon | ! |
| 20:04.53 | EricJ | Landon: Aye. Turns out "Add an address" and "Change Address" ain't the same thing. |
| 20:05.07 | EricJ | Shame you can't simply move the "primary" flag around, really. |
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| 20:10.34 | smtms | this should be a FAQ: am I allowed to produce code between 20th of April and 23rd of May, and is this code part of my contribution as far as Google is concerned? |
| 20:11.03 | mhilmi | smtms: likely your organization will encourange u to start early |
| 20:11.11 | mhilmi | err encourage |
| 20:11.26 | [particle] | as long as you're accepted :) |
| 20:11.33 | dho_plan9 | haha |
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| 20:23.15 | garima | is there anyone from sunlights lab? |
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| 20:29.29 | hypa7ia | !anyone |
| 20:29.29 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
| 20:29.36 | hypa7ia | garima: ^^ |
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| 20:31.34 | garima | ok...thanx |
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| 20:55.41 | kumarabhi | can i upload a pdf in blogspot blog? |
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| 21:39.12 | hub | when will the gsoc app ask me to fill the info for the third time to become mentor for an org I register and am admin of? |
| 21:41.58 | hypa7ia | maybe if you become a mentor for another org? (it's a known issue, there's already a bug filed against melange, feel free to submit a patch :) ) |
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| 21:44.44 | SerialNo | how can i find organizations sorted by language |
| 21:45.00 | Landon | !orgsbylang |
| 21:45.00 | socinfo | "orgsbylang" is The 2009 list is work in progress: http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/bundle:Languages |
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| 21:45.22 | SerialNo | thanks |
| 21:45.24 | SerialNo | :) |
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| 21:55.59 | summatusmentis | the abstract is only 500 characters? ugh |
| 21:56.24 | kblin | summatusmentis: it's no abstract if you write a novel |
| 21:56.26 | Landon | it's only an abstract :P |
| 21:56.55 | summatusmentis | but... you're supposed to explain your project |
| 21:57.07 | kblin | in a few sentences |
| 21:57.19 | Landon | have you seen paper abstracts?:P |
| 21:57.22 | Landon | follow their example |
| 21:57.23 | kblin | you're supposed to explain your project in the full application |
| 21:57.25 | gchaix | summatusmentis: call it the "elevator pitch" |
| 21:57.26 | Landon | all hook, no meat |
| 21:57.30 | summatusmentis | I need more than a few sentences!!! :-D |
| 21:57.37 | kblin | no |
| 21:57.54 | kblin | elevator pitch is a good example |
| 21:57.54 | summatusmentis | *sigh* fine |
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| 21:59.13 | gchaix | summatusmentis: if you can't explain your project to another technically-savvy person in an elevator ride, you need to work on it :-) |
| 22:01.12 | summatusmentis | gchaix: I know, I know, it's just annoying, I had a 1,300 character abstract that was beautiful :D |
| 22:02.30 | hub | hypa7ia: and how do I make it run on the current app? |
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| 22:06.06 | SRabbelier | summatusmentis: pastebin your abstract and I'll tell you what you're doing wrong ;) |
| 22:06.31 | cookie | just out of curiosity, does anyone here work for google? |
| 22:06.52 | cookie | in this channel i mean |
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| 22:07.10 | SRabbelier | cookie: sure, a bunch of the Ops here do |
| 22:07.46 | cookie | do you? |
| 22:08.41 | SRabbelier | cookie: nope, but I do work on Melange |
| 22:08.56 | cookie | i read a thing a while back about what it's like to work for google on their jobs section and it sounded a very cool place to work |
| 22:09.15 | SRabbelier | cookie: I agree ;) |
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| 22:09.50 | SRabbelier | cookie: even the job interviews (for an internship in my case) are cool |
| 22:10.26 | Erant | "Do you know what a keyboard is?" |
| 22:10.32 | Erant | "Do you know what a mouse is?" |
| 22:10.34 | cookie | i'm guessing bizarre group activites and psychometric tests |
| 22:10.41 | kblin | Erant: seriously, no |
| 22:11.01 | Erant | Kidding. I can't really imagine the questions. |
| 22:11.13 | Erant | Standard questions? |
| 22:11.14 | hypa7ia | hub: if the patch gets accepted, they could roll it out :) |
| 22:11.15 | kblin | Erant: I had "Imagine you had a black box that could solve the travelling salesman problem in O(1)..." |
| 22:11.35 | Erant | TSP is EXP? |
| 22:11.44 | hub | hypa7ia: riiight |
| 22:11.45 | Erant | Or NP? |
| 22:11.46 | kblin | it's NP-complete |
| 22:12.01 | Erant | k. Well, then you can solve most anything in NPC ;) |
| 22:12.24 | hypa7ia | hub: my point was more that it's a known issue |
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| 22:12.34 | hub | hypa7ia: my question was "when" |
| 22:12.38 | kblin | well, it was more about how to use a plotter that had different colors to draw stuff |
| 22:13.12 | hypa7ia | hub: ack, i misparsed your question, i thought it was sarcastic :) |
| 22:13.17 | hub | hypa7ia: I holding bets and currently I say "after SoC" |
| 22:13.27 | Erant | kblin: Ah. Yeah, that's an interesting problem. |
| 22:13.34 | hub | hypa7ia: it was a bit sarcastic, with hopes |
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| 22:13.56 | hypa7ia | hub: sarcasm doesn't usually get anything done, sadly |
| 22:13.59 | kblin | Erant: but I didn't apply to google, I just was hanging out with an engineer from Google AUS in a disco one night |
| 22:14.05 | Erant | kblin: But why the O(1)? |
| 22:14.17 | Erant | I mean, don't we have decent appromixations for TSP. |
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| 22:14.36 | kblin | I figure it was to throw you off guard a bit |
| 22:14.50 | Erant | hmmk |
| 22:14.51 | kblin | life's good if you don't worry about it |
| 22:15.00 | cookie | they always throw something in to confuse you |
| 22:15.18 | Erant | Yeah, I've been reading a few of those problems. I don't really see how they help. |
| 22:15.55 | kblin | it was a fun problem to solve while waiting for some beers at the bar :) |
| 22:16.35 | Erant | Sure ;) |
| 22:17.03 | hub | hypa7ia: given that I would not sign the CLA, it is pointless |
| 22:17.40 | Erant | kblin: But I don't really see much how these problems help at an interview. Most of these are stock problems. |
| 22:17.53 | Erant | Like the "why is a manhole cover round?". |
| 22:18.03 | orudge | It's to try to see how you think about a problem |
| 22:18.08 | hypa7ia | hub: yes, that does indeed make your whining even more pointless :) |
| 22:18.10 | orudge | rather than if you can actually solve the problem |
| 22:18.10 | summatusmentis | \o/ app submitted |
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| 22:18.25 | orudge | (and to be fair, if you do manage to solve the travelling salesman problem in a job interview, I think the job will be yours :P) |
| 22:18.26 | Erant | orudge: But most of applicants will learn the answers by heart |
| 22:18.30 | *** join/#gsoc abderrahim (n=abderrah@213.132.255.186) |
| 22:18.40 | SRabbelier | Erant: except you don't know which ones you will get |
| 22:18.50 | SRabbelier | Erant: and they ask around to see if you actually know what your'e talking about |
| 22:18.51 | Erant | SRabbelier: Learn a large enough set. |
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| 22:18.54 | dhoclone_plan9 | We don't have nearly the number of proposals we had at this point in 2007. |
| 22:18.54 | SRabbelier | Erant: or if you're just citing |
| 22:18.58 | SRabbelier | Erant: yeah, right ;) |
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| 22:19.01 | dhoclone_plan9 | :( |
| 22:19.13 | orudge | A lot of the time they just want to see your thought process. They'll give you a whiteboard or something, and ask you to plot out how you would go about solving a problem, etc |
| 22:19.14 | hub | hypa7ia: you were the one telling me to send a patch |
| 22:19.31 | cookie | i'll be honest i only came across GSoC by accident |
| 22:19.32 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: same for everyone; it's harder for students to apply this year -> less spam :P |
| 22:19.32 | dhoclone_plan9 | I think we had 45-55 at the end. We have 4 right now. |
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| 22:19.44 | chx | !timeline |
| 22:19.44 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline |
| 22:19.52 | dhoclone_plan9 | SRabbelier: What do you mean, ``less spam'' |
| 22:19.53 | cookie | i don't think you guys are putting the word out well enough but thats just me |
| 22:19.58 | hypa7ia | hub: you were the one complaining :) |
| 22:20.06 | kblin | SRabbelier: I wish |
| 22:20.13 | hub | hypa7ia: and I have a valid point |
| 22:20.19 | hypa7ia | hub: when people complain, i offer constructive suggestions |
| 22:20.25 | dhoclone_plan9 | We only had like 5 or 6 spam in 2007 |
| 22:20.35 | SRabbelier | kblin: no? |
| 22:20.43 | kblin | dhoclone_plan9: we're not seeing many proposals at that point either |
| 22:20.45 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: ouch! that bites |
| 22:20.49 | orudge | kblin: out of interest, how many applications did we have last year? |
| 22:20.52 | hub | hypa7ia: and you are? |
| 22:21.05 | kblin | orudge: you want me to remeber that now? |
| 22:21.07 | kblin | 21 or so |
| 22:21.11 | kblin | so far we have 1 |
| 22:21.17 | orudge | well, just roughly was what I was wondering, heh |
| 22:21.19 | kblin | this year, I mean |
| 22:21.21 | hypa7ia | hub: just another member of the community who is trying to be helpful |
| 22:21.22 | SRabbelier | kblin: weird... |
| 22:21.24 | orudge | yeah |
| 22:21.25 | bitsweat | literally SPAM proposals? |
| 22:21.39 | orudge | although there are a few people who have proposed ideas on the mailing list at least |
| 22:21.40 | bitsweat | kidding? |
| 22:21.45 | dhoclone_plan9 | bitsweat: not at all |
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| 22:21.50 | chx | someone copied in the application template |
| 22:21.59 | chx | good idea :p |
| 22:22.03 | bitsweat | weird |
| 22:22.06 | kblin | bitsweat: well, not "increase the size of your viagra" spam |
| 22:22.23 | bitsweat | the gsoc app is so hard to use it's been a barrier to getting mentors and students involved |
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| 22:22.30 | Erant | <fn~orudge> A lot of the time they just want to see your thought process. They'll give you a whiteboard or something, and ask you to plot out how you would go about solving a problem, etc |
| 22:22.32 | Erant | Whiteboards ftw |
| 22:22.38 | hub | wow, and apparently the "line breaking" does not really work |
| 22:22.40 | kblin | bitsweat: bah |
| 22:22.47 | bitsweat | to get by, we give direct links to pages they need to see |
| 22:22.49 | hub | making proposal unreadable |
| 22:22.56 | dhoclone_plan9 | bitsweat: It's no more difficult than it has been any other year |
| 22:23.10 | bitsweat | dhoclone_plan9: that's faint praise if I've heard any ;) |
| 22:23.15 | kblin | the old one sucked alot, and no one was reading the bug reports |
| 22:23.18 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: it is? |
| 22:23.21 | bitsweat | I haven't administered gsoc before this year |
| 22:23.22 | Erant | bitsweat: Eh? |
| 22:23.53 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: please be more specific |
| 22:24.23 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: I've heard from many other mentors that the app is actually better than the last one, so if you have a suggestion on what to do to improve it, please let us know |
| 22:24.31 | bitsweat | actions you'd like to take aren't coupled with the subject of the action |
| 22:24.38 | bitsweat | such as becoming a mentor for an organization |
| 22:24.44 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: please be more concrete? |
| 22:24.45 | bitsweat | you apply first, then page through a list looking for it |
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| 22:25.06 | bitsweat | the organizations are sorted by "link id" as well |
| 22:25.09 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: I don't quite follow, how _should_ it be? |
| 22:25.15 | bitsweat | go to organization, apply to mentor |
| 22:25.19 | bitsweat | apply to be a student |
| 22:25.35 | bitsweat | see updates/changes to the org, it's app, and outstanding proposals |
| 22:25.46 | bitsweat | it's very hard to track what's happening in the app |
| 22:25.54 | bitsweat | there's no activity feed to follow |
| 22:26.03 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: there is actually |
| 22:26.05 | bitsweat | so every mentor accepts a large burden of clicking around to keep up to date |
| 22:26.07 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: there's the notification system |
| 22:26.14 | Erant | bitsweat: Can you add an issue to the tracker about this? |
| 22:26.15 | bitsweat | the notifications do not tell you when a proposal is updated |
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| 22:26.16 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: and you can subscribe to updates |
| 22:26.22 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: they do |
| 22:26.29 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: you can subscribe to updates to a proposal you know.... |
| 22:26.31 | bitsweat | do tell :) I haven't figured out how |
| 22:26.38 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: there's like, these buttons... |
| 22:26.39 | bitsweat | you cannot, only reviews |
| 22:26.49 | dhoclone_plan9 | doesn't see why that's terribly useful |
| 22:26.52 | bitsweat | SRabbelier: being condescending does neither of us a favor |
| 22:26.55 | dhoclone_plan9 | Just keep a page open and hit refresh |
| 22:26.58 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: well yes, you do not want a notification every time a student hits 'save' |
| 22:27.13 | bitsweat | I do, in fact, want a notification when a student updates their proposals based on feedback |
| 22:27.26 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: they should post a comment that they did |
| 22:27.33 | dhoclone_plan9 | Hm, I was wrong. We have 5 |
| 22:28.16 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: also, there's a "last modified on" property to each application that's shown in the list view |
| 22:28.45 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: but, I do see yoru point |
| 22:29.03 | dhoclone_plan9 | I dunno. |
| 22:29.11 | dhoclone_plan9 | I think that's a little bit enabling of mentors to be lazy. |
| 22:29.15 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: you could file a http://tinyurl.com/new-issue about wanting to receive a notification each time the proposal is edited |
| 22:29.17 | dhoclone_plan9 | In 2007, I was a huge flake as a mentor. |
| 22:29.28 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: (through a similar subscription feature we already have) |
| 22:29.39 | bitsweat | our mentors are busy people, I'd like to make this a smooth, enjoyable experience for them |
| 22:29.47 | dhoclone_plan9 | shrugs |
| 22:29.47 | bitsweat | the app should make everyone involved feel kick ass |
| 22:29.49 | dhoclone_plan9 | I see your point. |
| 22:29.51 | bitsweat | not like they're wasting time clicking |
| 22:30.02 | bitsweat | SRabbelier: I'm working on some tickets :) |
| 22:30.04 | dhoclone_plan9 | On the other hand, I kind of feel like they should be more proactive |
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| 22:30.18 | bitsweat | dhoclone_plan9: they are proactive about things that *matter* |
| 22:30.21 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: thanks |
| 22:30.25 | dhoclone_plan9 | Like applications. |
| 22:30.27 | bitsweat | we're doing most communication outside of the app for this reason |
| 22:30.40 | dhoclone_plan9 | bitsweat: Yeah, I've been doing a lot of mailing list / IRC discussions. |
| 22:30.54 | kblin | how's that different than previous years? |
| 22:31.12 | bitsweat | very strange to hear pushback on this, here, to be honest |
| 22:31.14 | dhoclone_plan9 | I wasn't very active at all in 2007. |
| 22:31.18 | bitsweat | who cares how it's different from previous years?? |
| 22:31.21 | bitsweat | it should be GREAT |
| 22:31.40 | bitsweat | not good enough, not not-worse-than-2008 |
| 22:31.45 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: yeah, cos obviously we've been getting a lot of help from the community in developing this ;) |
| 22:31.49 | dhoclone_plan9 | Either way, it's pretty hard to recruit students this year. |
| 22:31.55 | kblin | bitsweat: that's bullshit |
| 22:32.08 | kblin | bitsweat: it's amazing it's working |
| 22:32.10 | bitsweat | kblin: that's helpful |
| 22:32.24 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: since, you know, all you mentors have been helping out, writing patches and stuff |
| 22:32.30 | dhoclone_plan9 | Which is a much bigger problem than getting emails to tell me to refresh. |
| 22:32.31 | kblin | bitsweat: look, if you don't like it, fix it |
| 22:32.31 | bitsweat | SRabbelier: was this developed as part of gsoc? |
| 22:32.33 | SRabbelier | </sarcasm> |
| 22:32.39 | bitsweat | kblin: what do you think I'm doing? |
| 22:32.45 | bitsweat | I just started using this app a week ago |
| 22:32.45 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: no, this was developed 100% in the free time of the developers |
| 22:32.46 | dhoclone_plan9 | SRabbelier: I would be writing patches if I had problems with it :) |
| 22:32.46 | bitsweat | and here I am |
| 22:32.54 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: thanks :) |
| 22:33.01 | hub | bitsweat: that why I got suggested to submit patches to a software I have no clue about |
| 22:33.07 | dhoclone_plan9 | And I may actually do that |
| 22:33.27 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: I understand that you don't have time to help us out |
| 22:33.30 | Erant | SRabbelier: I'd submit patches. But I'm too lazy. ;) |
| 22:33.32 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: and I understand that most don't |
| 22:33.34 | dhoclone_plan9 | SRabbelier: One of the things that I think is counterintuitive is this (and this is sort of a question, since I think that's always been the intended behavior) |
| 22:33.45 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: but please, return the favor, and understand that we don't have unlimited resources either |
| 22:34.05 | dhoclone_plan9 | SRabbelier: But I leave private feedback with a score of 1. Then I leave private feedback with a score of 2, and the score is bumped to a total of 3, when I meant to have it be 2 total. |
| 22:34.11 | bitsweat | SRabbelier: I'm not cramming anything down anyone's throat here |
| 22:34.21 | bitsweat | the response to my observations so far has been 1 step down from STFU |
| 22:34.22 | dhoclone_plan9 | It's not terribly intuitive for me to bump it up by ``Good'' every time :) |
| 22:34.42 | dhoclone_plan9 | bitsweat: That's not true. I've merely said that I disagree, I think you're just taking it way too personally. |
| 22:34.46 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: my apologies for that |
| 22:35.03 | bitsweat | dhoclone_plan9: IRC may misconstrue that, nothing personal |
| 22:35.07 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: I didn't mean to come across that way, but... well... let's say |
| 22:35.15 | bitsweat | I'm *very* accustomed to "just send patches" and the open source process :) |
| 22:35.35 | bitsweat | I'm also open to constructive criticism outside of foo.patch |
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| 22:35.38 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: there have been more than one comment saying "it sucks" |
| 22:35.45 | dhoclone_plan9 | thinks the open source process sucks |
| 22:36.17 | dhoclone_plan9 | SRabbelier: In any event, is that the intended behavior (and if so, is there some way to make that more clear?) |
| 22:36.23 | bitsweat | we've even had a couple students proposal rewriting this app ;) |
| 22:36.51 | Erant | 'rewrite'? |
| 22:37.07 | bitsweat | I understand you guys don't want to feel dumped on by empty criticism |
| 22:37.10 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: yes, it's intended behavior that you can give accumelative scores... but uhm.. yeah, maybe tha'ts kinda couter intuitive :P |
| 22:37.12 | cookie | what language is it written in? |
| 22:37.15 | bitsweat | I'll summarize my observations as patches |
| 22:37.21 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: please do file a http://tinyurl.com/new-issue |
| 22:37.27 | Erant | bitsweat: Rewrite sounds... radical. |
| 22:37.31 | Erant | The codebase is sound |
| 22:37.32 | SRabbelier | cookie: Python+Django |
| 22:37.32 | dhoclone_plan9 | Will do |
| 22:37.41 | Erant | It needs cosmetic tweaks |
| 22:37.53 | SRabbelier | Erant: :) |
| 22:37.55 | bitsweat | Erant: UI is not cosmetic |
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| 22:38.03 | bitsweat | that's a bigger discussion :) |
| 22:38.05 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: most of it can be |
| 22:38.16 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: it's fairly easy to throw the workflow around |
| 22:38.16 | bitsweat | I disagree |
| 22:38.30 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: if you want things to be more organization centered like you said before |
| 22:38.30 | Erant | bitsweat: What I mean is that the underlying code is fine. It needs more of it, but the basics are good. |
| 22:38.38 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: that is very much possible |
| 22:38.49 | bitsweat | yes, the underlying model seems good |
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| 22:38.57 | Erant | bitsweat: I also dunno if you know how many devvers are currently working on Melange, and how old the project is? |
| 22:38.58 | cookie | why not create a survey for everyone to fill in? |
| 22:39.01 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: (and it would not require a total rewrite for sure) |
| 22:39.13 | bitsweat | Erant: I don't know, no |
| 22:39.19 | Erant | 3 |
| 22:39.32 | SRabbelier | cookie: We will |
| 22:39.36 | bitsweat | that sounds like a good team size, Erant |
| 22:39.42 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: it's not |
| 22:39.46 | kblin | for full timers |
| 22:39.50 | Erant | Full timers? |
| 22:39.51 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: not when you realize that both lennie and me are students |
| 22:40.01 | dhoclone_plan9 | SRabbelier: Is my total weight always limited then to + or -4? |
| 22:40.02 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: (full time students mind you) |
| 22:40.13 | Erant | SRabbelier: Well... :P |
| 22:40.22 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: yes, but administrators can rank proposals as well as score them |
| 22:40.30 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: (e.g., put a proposal up to 1st spot) |
| 22:40.40 | dhoclone_plan9 | Alright, so if I give +2, +2, I can't +1 and have it take effect |
| 22:41.08 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: ooooh, like that |
| 22:41.11 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: yes, yes you can |
| 22:41.18 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: you can bump someone up multiple times |
| 22:41.32 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: the review process is open for discussion though |
| 22:41.50 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: we've brain stormed about it, but we haven't had the time to make it any fancier than it is now |
| 22:42.15 | dhoclone_plan9 | Ok |
| 22:42.25 | dhoclone_plan9 | I've some experience with django, so maybe I can actually do something with it |
| 22:42.37 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: that'd be nice |
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| 22:43.35 | cookie | i would offer but i don't know Python or Django |
| 22:43.49 | SRabbelier | cookie: what languages do you know? |
| 22:43.51 | kblin | sighs and wishes people would stop beating a dead cow^H^H^Hthread on the list |
| 22:43.51 | dhoclone_plan9 | It's been a while. |
| 22:43.55 | dhoclone_plan9 | I'm a C programmer :\ |
| 22:44.21 | kblin | dhoclone_plan9: switching all the time is a problem :) |
| 22:44.41 | cookie | PHP, Javascript and design stuff with Css and html for web stuff |
| 22:44.57 | kblin | dhoclone_plan9: I'm writing python code for my thesis and C code for the OSS stuff I do |
| 22:45.07 | SRabbelier | cookie: WTB javascript + design expert |
| 22:45.22 | SRabbelier | cookie: your expertise is more than welcome |
| 22:45.36 | kblin | dhoclone_plan9: I keep putting ; at the end of python statements and forgetting braces around if tests |
| 22:45.55 | kblin | other than that they're different enough to make switching to python mode or C mode easy |
| 22:45.57 | cookie | well i know a fair bit about design, i freelance web design off the books |
| 22:46.06 | cookie | and logo design |
| 22:46.08 | dhoclone_plan9 | kblin: heh |
| 22:46.43 | dhoclone_plan9 | I just wrote a lua code generator in php for our product's embedded lua interpreter. |
| 22:46.57 | SRabbelier | cookie: we need a good logo ;) |
| 22:47.09 | dhoclone_plan9 | Lua's in Lua obviously, the PHP generates it, the backend is C. It's quite odd switching between all of them. |
| 22:47.16 | kblin | ouch |
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| 22:47.44 | cookie | link to the site? |
| 22:48.56 | SRabbelier | cookie: http://socghop.appspot.com ? |
| 22:49.12 | cookie | logo at the top left? |
| 22:49.27 | dhoclone_plan9 | SRabbelier: So I can give a project a +142812 rating by submitting 35703 +4 reviews? |
| 22:49.45 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: yup |
| 22:49.53 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: but why would you? |
| 22:49.56 | dhoclone_plan9 | That's silly. |
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| 22:50.13 | dhoclone_plan9 | SRabbelier: because I'm an asshole, which happens |
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| 22:51.08 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: so the org admin will kick you? |
| 22:51.55 | dhoclone_plan9 | We had issues with this in 2007 where some mentors thought projects were more valuable than others, and continually offset scores. |
| 22:52.02 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: in which case it's a good thing they found out you're an asshole in time ;) |
| 22:52.13 | dhoclone_plan9 | We have less than 100 users and very few qualified mentors with time |
| 22:52.18 | dhoclone_plan9 | So it's hard to kick someone off. |
| 22:53.43 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: if they can't have the decency to behave though, they should not be a mentor |
| 22:53.48 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: even if you don't have the time |
| 22:53.56 | kblin | dhoclone_plan9: it's still a technical solution to a social problem, if you ask me |
| 22:54.07 | dhoclone_plan9 | Yes, it is. |
| 22:54.22 | dhoclone_plan9 | But the easiest and best solution isn't always to kick that person. |
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| 22:55.10 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: of course not ;) |
| 22:55.16 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: educating them is better |
| 22:55.33 | pygi | ChipX86, poke chip :) |
| 22:55.35 | dhoclone_plan9 | Suppose that person is the admin? :) |
| 22:55.37 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: but if they refuse to change, then they should be |
| 22:55.43 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: talk to leslie about it |
| 22:55.47 | ChipX86 | pygi: hey |
| 22:55.48 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: they probably shouldn't be admin |
| 22:55.58 | pygi | ChipX86, hey, got a moment for pm? :) |
| 22:56.01 | ChipX86 | sure |
| 22:56.04 | Jeff_S | yeah, if you can't trust your mentors, who can you trust? :) |
| 22:56.08 | dhoclone_plan9 | It's not an issue for us right now. We've got a good team this year and those of us who are being proactive are working really well together. |
| 22:56.18 | kblin | dhoclone_plan9: if they're admins, they could just invent random people and invite them in as mentors to rate proposals |
| 22:56.45 | dhoclone_plan9 | Either way, the rating system is still legitimately counterintuitive |
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| 22:56.51 | dhoclone_plan9 | And I've filed issue #463 |
| 22:57.09 | bitsweat | our mentors were surprised that scores are per-review rather than per-mentor too, but it's worked out ok |
| 22:57.33 | kblin | dhoclone_plan9: I'd still like to be able to give more than just a score of 4 |
| 22:57.36 | dhoclone_plan9 | I just feel weird setting -1s |
| 22:57.36 | bitsweat | they're doing 'score arithmetic' to offset previous reviews scores to reflect what the new review |
| 22:57.38 | bitsweat | 's score should be |
| 22:57.54 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: right, especially with -1 saying "Not so good" etc. |
| 22:57.57 | dhoclone_plan9 | Right |
| 22:58.02 | dhoclone_plan9 | The context is what does it |
| 22:58.08 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: yup, I agree |
| 22:58.13 | SRabbelier | kblin: what range would be better for you? |
| 22:58.15 | dhoclone_plan9 | In my eyes, the issue could be fixed by changing the context |
| 22:58.28 | dhoclone_plan9 | (which I also mentioned in the ticket) |
| 22:58.33 | kblin | SRabbelier: dunno, but that depends on the number of students/slots |
| 22:58.42 | SRabbelier | kblin: we were going to have it be dynamic |
| 22:58.52 | bitsweat | looks like the csv export for mentors went away |
| 22:58.53 | SRabbelier | kblin: but due to lack of time it's been changed to the current approach |
| 22:58.54 | bitsweat | privacy concern? |
| 22:58.58 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: yeah :( |
| 22:59.02 | bitsweat | now I can't get everyone's email though |
| 22:59.12 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: that was kindof a thinko in adding it |
| 22:59.25 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: we know it's needed, and adding it back is a priority |
| 22:59.36 | bitsweat | it's ok I already memorized their t-shirt sizes ;) ;) |
| 22:59.39 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: but both Lennie and myself are in our examn period, so we don't have tiem for much else but fixing bugs |
| 22:59.40 | dhoclone_plan9 | I'm off to dinner! |
| 22:59.47 | dhoclone_plan9 | fijne avond nog :) |
| 23:00.03 | SRabbelier | dhoclone_plan9: you too :) |
| 23:00.20 | kblin | bitsweat: what I'm doing is that I invite people only if they email me with their contact details |
| 23:00.26 | ojwb | last year I found that some mentors would rank all the projects, some just the ones in areas they knew |
| 23:00.32 | ojwb | or the ones they'd be willing to mentor |
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| 23:00.40 | ojwb | which makes the scores a bit unbalanced |
| 23:00.52 | bitsweat | kblin: yeah I could probably dig up their emails |
| 23:01.21 | bitsweat | ojwb: we haven't decided what to do about that |
| 23:01.23 | kblin | ojwb: we just had an irc meeting where we decided on the final order of our list and I then fiddled the scores to match |
| 23:01.27 | ojwb | but the good ones ended up high and the bad ones low so it worked well enough to clarify our thoughts |
| 23:01.53 | bitsweat | adding rather than averaging the scores means they aren't actually comparable |
| 23:01.55 | SRabbelier | ojwb: we'll be gathering feedback on the ranking process for sure, and improve it for next year :) |
| 23:01.55 | ojwb | yeah, you can pretty much read down the order and say "no, that deserves to be a bit higher" |
| 23:01.59 | bitsweat | and the rankings make no sense as a result |
| 23:02.10 | ojwb | imagines that it's worse for large orgs |
| 23:02.18 | kblin | nods |
| 23:02.20 | bitsweat | in the end, we're deciding rank by fiat more than by vote |
| 23:02.23 | kblin | I'd hate to be KDE |
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| 23:02.40 | ojwb | with lots of mentors potentially almost fighting for slots and more students than you can hold in your head at once |
| 23:02.51 | *** part/#gsoc domonoky1 (n=Domonoky@g230001138.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:02.56 | kblin | but ranking for WF is going to be fun this year as well |
| 23:03.06 | *** join/#gsoc petarj (n=petar@212.200.215.220) |
| 23:03.18 | kblin | we've got three devs doing three subprojects, and we're not sure if we'll get three slots again |
| 23:03.30 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: aaah, you say we should average the ranks rather than aggregate them? |
| 23:03.41 | kblin | SRabbelier: that does make sense |
| 23:03.48 | SRabbelier | kblin: it does |
| 23:05.08 | bitsweat | yes, but average per mentor rather than per review |
| 23:05.20 | bitsweat | changing that would screw up everyone's scorings though :) |
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| 23:06.06 | SRabbelier | bitsweat: averaging per mentor? |
| 23:06.11 | kblin | bitsweat: yeah, but doing that now would be less bad than doing it after the application period ends |
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| 23:06.41 | ArthurLiu | harmonic mean! geometric mean! |
| 23:06.52 | kblin | SRabbelier: I guess that'd compensate for people who only give out +4s |
| 23:07.53 | kblin | anyway, off to bed for me |
| 23:07.57 | SRabbelier | kblin: how do you mean? |
| 23:08.36 | ArthurLiu | SRabbelier, you should ask the IMDb guy how they cook their IMDb scores :) |
| 23:09.30 | ArthurLiu | s/guy/guys/ |
| 23:09.52 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: hehehe, I'm sure they'll tell us, right? :p |
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| 23:11.47 | ithilgor1 | hello, I have just submitted the proposal for a particular project through the gsoc web gui. Do I have to inform the mentoring organisation as well and give a reference to the document? Or are they automatically informed? |
| 23:12.32 | jbartosik | I guess they get informed about that |
| 23:12.35 | SRabbelier | ithilgor1: your application will show up as "not reviewed" to them |
| 23:12.50 | SRabbelier | ithilgor1: but atm they do not get an e-mail/notification saying you created it |
| 23:13.08 | SRabbelier | ithilgor1: you could tell them, but it might be considered pushy, YMMV ;) |
| 23:13.36 | orudge | your proposal will get reviewed soon enough, so you shouldn't have to e-mail them separately |
| 23:13.38 | ithilgor1 | I see, these links can be seen only by the specific organisation/ |
| 23:13.41 | ithilgor1 | or are they public? |
| 23:13.45 | ithilgor1 | the student proposals |
| 23:13.52 | orudge | they are private to the organisation |
| 23:13.57 | ithilgor1 | ok |
| 23:14.24 | *** part/#gsoc petarj (n=petar@212.200.215.220) |
| 23:14.36 | ArthurLiu | weird, we just had a guy sign up to be mentor with us we never head about, ever |
| 23:14.43 | ArthurLiu | second time already.. |
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| 23:15.46 | antarus | ArthurLiu: it happens ;) |
| 23:16.12 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: random retards not knowing what they're doing I suspect ;) |
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| 23:16.47 | ArthurLiu | I don't know, google says it's another ubuntu developer, same as the other |
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| 23:17.45 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: we intend to add a way to msg people :) |
| 23:17.50 | jbartosik | what should I put in "degree" field on "edit my student profile" page if I am supposed to get bachelor's degree this year? Udergraduate? |
| 23:18.03 | SRabbelier | jbartosik: yup |
| 23:18.10 | ArthurLiu | B.Sc-1 |
| 23:18.14 | jbartosik | thanks |
| 23:18.34 | jbartosik | english educational system names always confuse me |
| 23:18.55 | ArthurLiu | here we talk License, Master, Doctorate |
| 23:20.01 | ArthurLiu | woaw, sixth proposal just in |
| 23:20.26 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: lol, gratz :P |
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| 23:20.54 | ArthurLiu | yeah well... on the whole, they're not that bad, but they're not many either |
| 23:21.21 | ArthurLiu | damn crisis keeping everyone busy |
| 23:21.31 | orudge | I misread that as Crysis |
| 23:21.36 | orudge | :p |
| 23:21.45 | SRabbelier | orudge: lol |
| 23:21.56 | orudge | I'd have thought they'd be more applications this year, with the way things are, to be honest |
| 23:22.02 | orudge | *there'd |
| 23:22.16 | SRabbelier | orudge: perhaps it doesn't pay enough? |
| 23:22.18 | orudge | has at least managed to encourage some students at St Andrews to apply this year |
| 23:22.28 | orudge | hmm, perhaps |
| 23:22.41 | orudge | although if the alternative is nothing at all, then I'd say $4500 is pretty generous! |
| 23:22.52 | SRabbelier | orudge: hehe, yup |
| 23:22.54 | orudge | (and the way things are, nothing at all seems to be a very real possibility just now) |
| 23:23.06 | ArthurLiu | I did a talk about GSoC at my university. There were 30-40 people, out of 3 concurrent classes of 150, not bad |
| 23:23.52 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: nice :) |
| 23:24.13 | SRabbelier | 870 student proposals so far |
| 23:24.37 | SRabbelier | do the math yourself to figure out what percentage you got yourself ;) |
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| 23:25.16 | ojwb | wonders if the news of slightly reduced number of places and fear that more people will apply will put people off applying |
| 23:25.40 | SRabbelier | ojwb: mhhh, could be |
| 23:25.48 | Erant | What, how many places are there? |
| 23:26.05 | ojwb | 1000 |
| 23:26.09 | ojwb | 1125 last year |
| 23:26.15 | Erant | Mjeh |
| 23:26.37 | ojwb | not sure if they might scrape a few extra together or not - it seemed they created a few extra last year |
| 23:26.45 | ArthurLiu | ojwb, I don't believe the news went really far on the students side, it was mostly the orgs talking about these numbers |
| 23:26.46 | ojwb | but perhaps they were all coming from other orgs |
| 23:27.22 | ojwb | ArthurLiu: ok - i don't really see the student's view of stuff... |
| 23:27.35 | ArthurLiu | if all orgs were of equal size, with our 6 applications, we're doing 3% better than average |
| 23:27.50 | ArthurLiu | considering our org has 1000+ devs, we're doing VERY bad :D |
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| 23:28.35 | cookie | wots is ur org |
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| 23:28.43 | ArthurLiu | Debian |
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| 23:29.25 | cookie | i'm interested in Honeynet, i'm doing a Digital Forensics degree |
| 23:29.57 | cookie | anyone know anything about how many apps they have? |
| 23:30.13 | scorche | ask them |
| 23:30.33 | ArthurLiu | Chris DiBona: "Maybe the message is for mentors to go to local schools and post flyers/visit cs departments?" |
| 23:30.46 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: seriously? only 6 apps for debian? |
| 23:31.03 | SRabbelier | takes a peek |
| 23:31.04 | ArthurLiu | and maybe 2-3 in discussion outside |
| 23:31.12 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: damn 0.o |
| 23:31.17 | homunq | Note that some orgs, like Sugarlabs, are encouraging students to revise their applications on the wiki before submitting. We have 6 applications on our wiki, at least 3 of those would have been submitted to melange if we were encouraging that. |
| 23:31.19 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: you guys need to poke your community more then! |
| 23:31.36 | ArthurLiu | then again last year we only had 13 slots |
| 23:32.11 | ArthurLiu | SRabbelier, you'd have thought that Ubuntu would be better than us in community/outreach/newcomer stuff, but they're even worse |
| 23:32.12 | homunq | these numbers are much lower than I hoped, but apparently that's true all over. |
| 23:32.52 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: how so? |
| 23:32.59 | homunq | Anyway; if there's 870 submitted on melange, I'd bet there's at least twice that already written and edited. |
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| 23:33.18 | SRabbelier | homunq: que? |
| 23:33.22 | ArthurLiu | SRabbelier, they pulled out because they couldn't find enough people to admin a GSoC |
| 23:33.40 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: right, I read that |
| 23:33.45 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: but that's not student related, right? |
| 23:33.56 | cookie | like i said before, i came across this whole GSoC by accident |
| 23:34.10 | glenker_ | hi, is anyone knowledgeable about the GNU project's involvement with the GSoC |
| 23:34.15 | ArthurLiu | what is not student related ? |
| 23:34.28 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: not having enough admins/mentors |
| 23:34.30 | cookie | i was messing around with Maps API and saw the link on the main google code page but see its not mentioned anywhere else |
| 23:34.38 | scorche | glenker_: what do you mean? |
| 23:34.41 | SRabbelier | cookie: mhhh, I see |
| 23:34.45 | glenker_ | I would like to know how probable it is to pitch an idea for a GNU project that I have been working on, but doesn't have any ideas posted |
| 23:34.52 | glenker_ | coreutisl |
| 23:34.56 | glenker_ | coreutils* |
| 23:35.06 | scorche | glenker_: very probable...go ask the GNU folks |
| 23:35.20 | ojwb | it's certainly very probably you can pitch it! |
| 23:35.24 | ojwb | probable |
| 23:35.29 | glenker_ | oh ok, thanks |
| 23:36.02 | ArthurLiu | (slightly confused) no they didn't pull out because of lack of students |
| 23:36.28 | ojwb | nobody had any students at that point |
| 23:36.34 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: lol :P |
| 23:36.37 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: not what I meant |
| 23:36.57 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: I meant that they had a problem with gettting admins and mentors |
| 23:37.04 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: but that Debian is having problems getting students |
| 23:37.40 | ArthurLiu | they had several mentors I believe, and a few little orgs getting in with ubuntu as umbrella org |
| 23:37.52 | ArthurLiu | yeah, we're pretty bad at outreach |
| 23:38.57 | ArthurLiu | but the very high bar for entry is what makes Debian special in some way, though there are discussions to change that a bit |
| 23:40.04 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: what's that bar? |
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| 23:40.50 | ArthurLiu | to become a full fledged Debian Developer, the New Maintainer process can take more than a year |
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| 23:41.43 | ArthurLiu | for example, we don't have a web-based bug reporting system |
| 23:41.46 | SRabbelier | ArthurLiu: ah, right, I thought you were talking about students |
| 23:41.58 | esam | hi everyone |
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| 23:42.15 | cookie | i've just had a look, there's nothing on your ideas page i can apply for :( |
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| 23:42.31 | esam | I have been away from software development for a few years studying theoretical CS |
| 23:42.36 | SRabbelier | cookie: who is your? |
| 23:42.37 | ArthurLiu | cookie, yeah well, pretty core stuff usually compared to ubuntu or kde/gnome/whatever |
| 23:42.47 | esam | and now it is a few month that I am back |
| 23:42.49 | cookie | Debian's idea page |
| 23:42.52 | SRabbelier | cookie: ah :) |
| 23:42.54 | esam | working on a compiler project |
| 23:43.02 | ArthurLiu | http://wiki.debian.org/gsoc |
| 23:43.26 | esam | I have found a couple of projects related to what I am currently doing |
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| 23:43.44 | cookie | i'm more web based than anything else |
| 23:44.03 | esam | but I am still looking for other projects to apply for just in case |
| 23:44.25 | esam | anyone has any ideas or suggestions |
| 23:44.30 | ArthurLiu | esam, did you start talking with those orgs that you've found ? |
| 23:44.43 | esam | yes, I have sent emails |
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| 23:45.06 | esam | I just sent emails yesterday and today and have not heard back yet |
| 23:45.22 | ojwb | ArthurLiu: most of that year seems to just be waiting though |
| 23:45.23 | ArthurLiu | esam, other communication channels ? IRC ? |
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| 23:45.35 | esam | a little bit on IRC, |
| 23:45.52 | esam | do you suggest that I go to specific projects IRC channels? |
| 23:46.18 | ArthurLiu | esam, go to the IRC channels of the orgs you want to apply with |
| 23:46.25 | ArthurLiu | but I wouldn't suggest you to make more than 3 applications |
| 23:46.36 | cookie | the IRC channel for the org i want doesnt seem to exist |
| 23:46.37 | ArthurLiu | concentrate on a smaller number of applications |
| 23:46.44 | esam | looks like a good idea |
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| 23:47.35 | atul15 | what should a patch be like demanded by an org....Can it be code refactoring? |
| 23:47.48 | esam | I'll give it a try ... |
| 23:48.00 | ojwb | atul15: I'd ask the org (or are you the org?) |
| 23:48.52 | SRabbelier | !askyourorg |
| 23:48.52 | socinfo | "askyourorg" is You should ask the organization you are interested in applying as this varies per organization. |
| 23:48.53 | atul15 | ojwb:no ..I am trying for tux4kid |
| 23:49.01 | SRabbelier | atul15: see ^^^^^ for sure |
| 23:49.43 | ojwb | if it is useful refactoring, I imagine they'd welcome it, but they may be after someone more substantial |
| 23:49.53 | ojwb | depending what sort of refactoring it is |
| 23:49.57 | ojwb | but asking is best |
| 23:50.26 | atul15 | ok... |
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| 23:53.09 | wraithguard01_ | so, there are a ton of typos on the userguide. |
| 23:53.32 | SRabbelier | wraithguard01_: please poke lh for that |
| 23:54.21 | lh | what's up? |
| 23:54.45 | SRabbelier | lh: wraithguard01_ was saying there's typo's in the userguide |
| 23:55.52 | lh | wraithguard01_: point me to them |
| 23:56.14 | wraithguard01_ | ok. |
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| 23:56.38 | wraithguard01_ | This means that you may receive multiple emais regarding your submitted proposals. |
| 23:56.41 | wraithguard01_ | "emais" |
| 23:57.11 | ArthurLiu | http://images.google.com/images?q=emais |
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| 23:57.50 | lh | wraithguard01_: fixed, next |
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| 23:59.00 | ycy | HI THERE |
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| 23:59.30 | SRabbelier | ycy: drop the caps please |
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