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| 00:03.47 | antarus | oh noes I saw an msu.edu in here |
| 00:04.14 | Shuaib | antarus, and that is worrying because...? :) |
| 00:04.21 | Dark_Shikari | commies!1!1! |
| 00:04.22 | Dark_Shikari | ducks |
| 00:04.23 | antarus | alma mater |
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| 00:05.45 | Branokil | loufoque illegal labour work / slave work |
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| 00:07.42 | loufoque | Branokil: I just wonder if I'll have to declare it to my social care. |
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| 00:08.40 | joeyadams | Branokil> haha |
| 00:10.08 | gregarei | suggests speaking with an accountant |
| 00:10.28 | antarus | loufoque: thats a question that varies by locale, and you should seek local advice |
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| 00:16.09 | swark | hi all |
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| 00:17.31 | swark | Can I get any feedback why my proposal was not accepted? |
| 00:18.03 | ojwb | swark: don't repeat yourself |
| 00:18.37 | ojwb | swark: ask your org, but be aware that large orgs may not have the resources to give detailed feedback to every student |
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| 00:19.36 | Leonox1 | swark: ask for the selection criteria |
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| 00:20.29 | ojwb | loufoque: technically you're a contractor for Google (though you should NOT write "I worked for Google" on your CV/resume) |
| 00:20.42 | swark | where can I find the selection criteria? |
| 00:21.00 | loufoque | ojwb: so it doesn't count as student work or internship? |
| 00:21.19 | ravenexus`` | loufoque: it can, you have to negociate with your universite |
| 00:21.20 | ojwb | it isn't an internship |
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| 00:21.26 | ravenexus`` | s/universite/university/ |
| 00:21.39 | ojwb | not sure about "student work" |
| 00:21.53 | Leonox1 | swark: send a mail to your org mailing list... |
| 00:22.10 | Leonox1 | swark: and ask for it |
| 00:22.11 | ravenexus`` | you can get credit for it. you'll just have to ask for a letter from Google when you have passed your _final_ evaluation |
| 00:22.15 | ravenexus`` | but you'll see on time |
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| 00:22.47 | loufoque | i don't get care about getting credit from my university, I just care about whether that remuneration counts as salary or something |
| 00:22.52 | loufoque | s/get // |
| 00:22.53 | ojwb | well, it's not an internship for Google - I've heard people describe it as one at the org they're working with, but you should check they're OK with that |
| 00:23.32 | ojwb | loufoque: that's probably down to local taxation regulations |
| 00:23.33 | ravenexus`` | loufoque: See with your local laws. |
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| 00:23.54 | ravenexus`` | Google can't give you any advice about this |
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| 00:29.17 | Upthorn | so |
| 00:29.31 | Upthorn | I need to double check when the w-9s are due in |
| 00:30.40 | Upthorn | oh the mailing list will tell me |
| 00:30.43 | Upthorn | ok |
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| 00:35.05 | loufoque | aah I hate paperwork |
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| 00:37.11 | swark | I'll ask the org. Thank you very much for Leonox1 and ojwb. |
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| 00:44.33 | ojwb | swark: go easy on them - most orgs get far more good applications than they can accept, and it's not easy having to decide which good applications not to fund |
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| 00:49.34 | swark | ojwb: I've sent a mail for the selection criteria. I think I've already pulled a deep research on the project and figured out most detail specification of it. |
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| 00:53.13 | omniter | i'm surprised so few people applied to OGRE. =\ there were only 2 slots, which means like only a handful of applicants. |
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| 00:53.28 | omniter | i thought students would love 3D graphics stuff |
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| 00:54.36 | Dark_Shikari | omniter: few people applying is often a good thing, it means you've made your qualification tasks sufficiently difficult |
| 00:54.40 | loufoque | omniter: 3D is cool, working with massive and messy APIs isn't. |
| 00:55.17 | omniter | Dark_Shikari, what do you mean? |
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| 00:55.31 | mib_r5qw35 | [Off Topic]Hey guys,why is it that I haven't received any confirmation mail,even thought I've got selected ? |
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| 00:55.37 | Dark_Shikari | if an organization receives vastly more applications than they have slots, it means their qualification tasks were too easy |
| 00:55.38 | mib_r5qw35 | Has everybody got em ? |
| 00:55.47 | summatusmentis | I haven't seen one yet |
| 00:55.52 | omniter | loufoque, ah... but don't other projects have massive and messy non-API code too? |
| 00:56.09 | omniter | Dark_Shikari, ah. i see. |
| 00:56.49 | Dark_Shikari | IMO the qualification tasks should be so difficult that they justify the initial $500 stipend solely for the work on the qual task |
| 00:56.56 | Dark_Shikari | otherwise people have a tendency to run away with the $500 |
| 00:57.57 | omniter | heheh. |
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| 00:58.01 | omniter | really |
| 00:58.02 | disismt | Dark_Shikari, na, if the guys have written a good enuf proposal, they are quite capable of completing the project |
| 00:58.15 | Dark_Shikari | disismt: Proven false by our experiences last year |
| 00:58.29 | disismt | Dark_Shikari, so they will run away with $4500 after completing the project :P |
| 00:58.29 | ojwb | you have to "be in good standing with your community" after community bonding too |
| 00:58.33 | Dark_Shikari | We had 4 extremely capable students as demonstrated by understanding of background concepts and proposals |
| 00:58.38 | Dark_Shikari | they were in great standing |
| 00:58.42 | Dark_Shikari | one ran away with the $500 |
| 00:58.47 | Dark_Shikari | another slacked off and we had to dump him |
| 00:58.49 | omniter | =\ |
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| 00:58.55 | Dark_Shikari | another had suboptimal work but finished |
| 00:59.06 | omniter | now that's weird |
| 00:59.08 | Dark_Shikari | the last was an absolute genius and generated the best work I've seen in a long long time |
| 00:59.17 | disismt | Dark_Shikari, nowadays most orgs are asking students to submit patches for fixing bugs. That way, there's lesser chances for student running away |
| 00:59.20 | Dark_Shikari | and turned it into a thesis |
| 00:59.26 | ojwb | Dark_Shikari: ok, but that's not "solely for the work on the qual task" |
| 00:59.33 | Dark_Shikari | disismt: the way we did it was to have the qualification tasks serve as the start of the project |
| 00:59.41 | Dark_Shikari | this year |
| 00:59.53 | Dark_Shikari | i.e. the qualification task *is* a very restricted form of the actual project, simplified as much as possible |
| 01:00.00 | Dark_Shikari | the idea being that if you can't complete that, surely you can't do the actual project either |
| 01:00.04 | Dark_Shikari | and it helps you lead into the real work |
| 01:00.14 | disismt | Dark_Shikari, anyway, I am planning to extend /my/ project into a thesis too :D |
| 01:00.20 | omniter | my org didn't have a qualifying task =\ |
| 01:00.33 | Dark_Shikari | see what I did here: http://wiki.videolan.org/SoC_x264_2009#Qualification_tasks |
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| 01:00.57 | Dark_Shikari | We got 5 apps, 3 slots |
| 01:00.59 | omniter | wait, do the qual tasks come later? |
| 01:01.01 | omniter | :S |
| 01:01.07 | Dark_Shikari | we got 3 qual task completions before the submission deadline |
| 01:01.10 | Dark_Shikari | All three got accepted. |
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| 01:01.24 | Dark_Shikari | (We gave them until the decision deadline though, but they didn't need the extra time) |
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| 01:01.54 | disismt | Dark_Shikari, wow the videolan projects look hard :) |
| 01:02.05 | Dark_Shikari | these are the x264 projects |
| 01:02.08 | Dark_Shikari | videolan's are probably easier =p |
| 01:02.19 | loufoque | omniter: from my personal experience, every thing that involves 3D, especially in C++, tends to get worse than the rest. |
| 01:02.20 | Dark_Shikari | (we've been "subletting" under them in GSOC for two years now) |
| 01:02.25 | disismt | ya I meant the x264 ones |
| 01:02.34 | omniter | loufoque, get worse? |
| 01:02.42 | omniter | as in get harder? or get shittier results |
| 01:02.57 | Dark_Shikari | loufoque: remove all words from that sentence except "C++" |
| 01:03.02 | Dark_Shikari | there's the problem ;) |
| 01:03.32 | omniter | C++ is a problem? i thought most projects used C++ |
| 01:03.34 | omniter | =\ |
| 01:03.41 | loufoque | omniter: I mean the code eventually becomes more messy than other types of project, hence making it hard for new people to contribute. |
| 01:03.47 | omniter | ah |
| 01:03.50 | Dark_Shikari | no, most projects still use C |
| 01:04.02 | Dark_Shikari | C is still the most popular language in the world (in terms of amount of stuff written in it) |
| 01:04.04 | omniter | heh |
| 01:04.09 | omniter | orly |
| 01:04.11 | Dark_Shikari | this is much moreso true in open source, as well, than in commercial software |
| 01:04.16 | loufoque | most projects that use C++ still use C-ish C++ |
| 01:04.27 | omniter | heh, i love C++ :p |
| 01:04.31 | Dark_Shikari | Now, it is *not* the most popular language in terms of "amount of stuff *currently being written*", it's the most popular in amount of stuff that's already written in it |
| 01:04.32 | omniter | and C# and python and boo |
| 01:04.33 | loufoque | the google policy for C++ for example could be summed up as "stick to C". |
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| 01:04.47 | Dark_Shikari | which is a good policy, because there's only three useful features in all of C++ |
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| 01:05.02 | loufoque | Dark_Shikari: that, my friend, is trolling. |
| 01:05.07 | Dark_Shikari | It is? |
| 01:05.10 | Dark_Shikari | Templates, boolean values, exceptions |
| 01:05.14 | Dark_Shikari | there, you have the most useful parts of C++ |
| 01:05.22 | Dark_Shikari | in fact, that could be shortened |
| 01:05.23 | Dark_Shikari | "templates" |
| 01:05.30 | loufoque | that's actually true |
| 01:05.34 | MatthewWilkes | In fact, could be shortened further: [] |
| 01:05.39 | loufoque | but google doesn't use exceptions |
| 01:05.42 | Dark_Shikari | And the funny thing is that templates are actually trivial to implement in C |
| 01:05.45 | omniter | MatthewWilkes, harhar |
| 01:05.46 | Dark_Shikari | making the set in fact [] |
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| 01:05.50 | ojwb | you're forgetting being able to write "&&" as and |
| 01:05.52 | ojwb | and bigrams |
| 01:05.57 | ojwb | sometime trigrams are too verbose |
| 01:06.00 | Dark_Shikari | #define and && |
| 01:06.14 | ojwb | but it's not a keyword then! |
| 01:06.23 | Dark_Shikari | set your editor to highlight it |
| 01:06.28 | Dark_Shikari | I have about 300 custom highlights in my editor for asm |
| 01:06.30 | summatusmentis | and is a keyword in C++? weird |
| 01:06.33 | summatusmentis | totally didn't know that |
| 01:06.35 | omniter | pfft. "trivial to implement". sounds like linux philosophy. "no need for a front-end. it's trivial in bash." |
| 01:06.52 | loufoque | Dark_Shikari: you can't implement templates in C. They're a compile-time turing-complete language. |
| 01:06.52 | Dark_Shikari | the only problem with templates in C is that the C preprocessor sucks |
| 01:06.58 | Dark_Shikari | loufoque: in *practice* you can |
| 01:07.05 | Dark_Shikari | because you don't actually need turing-complete templates in practice |
| 01:07.17 | Dark_Shikari | you just need to be able to define a single function that does multiple things |
| 01:07.17 | loufoque | you can emulate certain features of templates, but not all. |
| 01:07.25 | loufoque | hence you cannot implement them. |
| 01:07.29 | Dark_Shikari | and programs like x264 and ffmpeg make very widespread use of this method |
| 01:07.30 | thebolt | Morning |
| 01:07.32 | Dark_Shikari | using #define and #include |
| 01:07.40 | Dark_Shikari | see motion_est_template in ffmpeg |
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| 01:08.32 | MatthewWilkes | loufoque: Is the C preprocessor not turing complete? My instinct would say so. |
| 01:08.49 | Dark_Shikari | I think it is, but you would never want to use it as such |
| 01:09.05 | Dark_Shikari | It's a very bad preprocessor, and while it does the job most of the time, I'd much rather have something nasm-like. |
| 01:09.41 | MatthewWilkes | Hmm, http://www.ioccc.org/2001/herrmann1.hint <-- nope, it suffers from a lack of states, it seems |
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| 01:13.04 | loufoque | MatthewWilkes: I guess it comes pretty close. Anyway I'd still rather use templates, personally, since it's just functional programming. |
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| 01:17.27 | homunq | if by any chance there are any non-accepted students for Sugar Labs around now, I can answer specific questions. |
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| 01:18.24 | homunq | hola aa |
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| 01:35.17 | chintan_irc | how many students got accepted this year? |
| 01:35.25 | r0bby | 1000. |
| 01:35.36 | chintan_irc | neat :) |
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| 01:36.37 | pygi | homunq, :))) |
| 01:36.39 | pygi | me me me :p |
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| 01:37.46 | homunq | pygi: pm or here? |
| 01:38.13 | pygi | homunq, here :P |
| 01:38.44 | pygi | homunq, why didn't you accept me? I mean, I didn't apply to Sugar Labs, but regardless ... :P |
| 01:39.06 | r0bby | yeh why wasn't i picked?!?!?! |
| 01:39.07 | homunq | I was just about to ask which was your project... :) |
| 01:39.19 | r0bby | I didn't apply either :) |
| 01:39.20 | disismt | r0bby, any stats out yet? |
| 01:39.27 | r0bby | http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-accepted-students-for-google.html |
| 01:39.31 | pygi | homunq, :D :D |
| 01:39.36 | atulagrwl | r0bby, is this 1000 exact? |
| 01:39.40 | r0bby | yes. |
| 01:39.42 | r0bby | \they capped it |
| 01:39.46 | atulagrwl | gr8 |
| 01:40.05 | homunq | We did get one application called "long-shot proposal" saying "I would love to work with your organization on a project, but I didn't have the time to comply with your registration requirements coz they're wicked hard! :P Pick me for your project only if you need another programmer, and I've been rejected everywhere else." |
| 01:40.05 | pygi | homunq, I wanted to create a framework for student <-> teacher interaction, XMPP tubes, quizzes and stuff, but in the end opted for PSF |
| 01:40.09 | disismt | India 101 OMG :D |
| 01:40.31 | pygi | homunq, :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D |
| 01:40.40 | pygi | homunq, I must admit you have a good app template |
| 01:40.47 | pygi | even if you should leave a bit more space for creativity |
| 01:40.52 | pygi | and I'd advise requiring a patch or two |
| 01:41.05 | homunq | I think we will, next year. |
| 01:41.07 | atulagrwl | homunq, :D |
| 01:41.24 | ojwb | homunq: did you accept them? |
| 01:41.26 | disismt | United States (212), India (101), Germany (55), Canada (44) and Brazil (43) .Where's China? |
| 01:41.41 | atulagrwl | disismt, still they are way behind US.. looking at the application numbers |
| 01:41.55 | disismt | china? |
| 01:42.17 | disismt | I would have thought china had more participants |
| 01:42.19 | ojwb | last year china was 2nd or 3rd I think |
| 01:42.29 | homunq | ojwb: would have, but then we looked at their myspace page and saw they used ms messenger. |
| 01:42.29 | r0bby | disismt: not in the top :P |
| 01:42.36 | disismt | yup and now this time there's no mention :) |
| 01:42.46 | ojwb | homunq: eww, turn off! |
| 01:42.51 | z4chh | im suprised like 70 countries are represented |
| 01:43.01 | r0bby | why be shocked? |
| 01:43.04 | ojwb | z4chh: how many or how few? |
| 01:43.06 | z4chh | i can only name a few dozen off the top of my head |
| 01:43.06 | z4chh | ;p |
| 01:43.15 | r0bby | duh :) |
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| 01:43.29 | r0bby | I cna't name 70 off the top of my head either :) |
| 01:43.43 | ojwb | suspects he can come close |
| 01:43.54 | r0bby | if i saty down i could name em |
| 01:43.55 | homunq | wow, there are 70 countries? But there's only like 50 languages! |
| 01:43.56 | z4chh | that would be sweet if antarctica was represented >.< |
| 01:43.56 | holger_ | so germany has the per-capita lead? ;) |
| 01:43.56 | pygi | homunq, how many apps did you get if I may know? |
| 01:44.03 | r0bby | pretty much :) |
| 01:44.13 | homunq | pygi: 29 |
| 01:44.21 | pygi | homunq, a decent number |
| 01:44.22 | thebolt | 70 countries isn't that hard |
| 01:44.31 | r0bby | Anarctica is inhabited? |
| 01:44.35 | holger_ | otoh, probably not. if iceland got someone in ;) |
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| 01:44.40 | z4chh | r0bby, not really |
| 01:44.44 | r0bby | I thoyght that was like a vast wasteland |
| 01:44.46 | ojwb | r0bby: research bases |
| 01:44.50 | z4chh | yep |
| 01:44.51 | homunq | including mr. long-shot, but not including one that missed deadline by a silly mistake (created doc instead of application) |
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| 01:44.53 | ojwb | and a few tourists in summer |
| 01:44.58 | pygi | homunq, Version support for Sugar data store / Journal (if you'll need any help in here (co-mentor or something), I can help with Bzr side |
| 01:44.59 | thebolt | you have 30+ only in europe |
| 01:45.33 | z4chh | i don't think anyone is really from Antarctica though ;p |
| 01:45.36 | atulagrwl | pygi, i also liked the idea of Version support for Sugar |
| 01:45.42 | homunq | is in a country of 13 million which has 25 native ones. I was kidding. |
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| 01:46.34 | pygi | atulagrwl, from my perspective right now, it seems trivial o.O |
| 01:46.37 | pygi | I could be wrong tho... |
| 01:47.29 | homunq | 26 if you count male-register and female-register Garifuna, which derive from Yoruba and Arawak respectively - different continents. |
| 01:47.49 | atulagrwl | pygi, yes, from my presepective too.. it is only gui support which is required now.. |
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| 01:48.34 | atulagrwl | pygi, i liked the initial idea.. but when looked deeper, i found it trivial (gui always trivial, as i am not much into it) :-) |
| 01:48.46 | atulagrwl | *always looks |
| 01:49.30 | homunq | pygi, on the version support thing - that is interesting. You know bzr data format from inside? |
| 01:49.58 | homunq | (we have not decided on a format back-end, but bzr is a strong candidate) |
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| 01:51.16 | homunq | the best things are always trivial. And the best programmers know that. :) |
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| 01:51.52 | homunq | pygi: can you talk a little bit about that right now? |
| 01:52.09 | atulagrwl | homunq, i know the project is not trivial, :-) |
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| 01:54.56 | atulagrwl | homunq, is the backend finalized? |
| 01:55.08 | homunq | see above: |
| 01:55.10 | homunq | (we have not decided on a format back-end, but bzr is a strong candidate) |
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| 01:55.27 | atulagrwl | homunq, sorry.. skipped that |
| 01:55.31 | homunq | the proposal did not follow the idea |
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| 01:57.06 | atulagrwl | homunq, the wiki says it will be using olpcfs2.. |
| 01:57.23 | homunq | that is the idea. |
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| 01:57.36 | homunq | wonders if you are listening to me. |
| 01:57.50 | jetru | !next |
| 01:57.51 | socinfo | "next" is (#1) check to see if you were accepted by visiting organization home pages linked here http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009, or (#2) accepted students will be added to the private students mailing list in the next few days. we will ask you for tax forms and proof of enrollment later. until then relax. |
| 01:57.59 | atulagrwl | homunq, ohh.. sorry.. i finally got it |
| 01:58.30 | atulagrwl | homunq, i am asking the same things which you said already :P |
| 01:59.01 | homunq | yeah, and you're also asking the same things which I already said. :P |
| 01:59.15 | homunq | (sorry, couldn't resist) |
| 01:59.28 | atulagrwl | homunq, why change the backend .. any specific reasons? |
| 01:59.31 | ojwb | I think he's asking what you already said |
| 01:59.45 | atulagrwl | :P. |
| 01:59.47 | atulagrwl | hides |
| 02:00.40 | homunq | sure, lots of reasons. Mainly the person decided that if UI is key, the back-end work already done is not actually the hard part, so more important to get it right than get a leg up. |
| 02:00.58 | holger_ | jetru: or get coding already ;) |
| 02:01.21 | ojwb | ponders a !next rewrite |
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| 02:01.57 | jetru | holger_: I wish i could! my hard drive crashed last week and i'm stuck with CD boot till my replacement arrives :( |
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| 02:03.51 | ojwb | socinfo: forget next |
| 02:03.51 | socinfo | Error: 2 factoids have that key. Please specify which one to remove, or use * to designate all of them. |
| 02:03.58 | ojwb | socinfo: forget next * |
| 02:03.58 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
| 02:04.00 | holger_ | socinfo: learn next as of course, you could get coding already. |
| 02:04.01 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
| 02:04.08 | holger_ | ojwb: dang. |
| 02:04.10 | atulagrwl | !next |
| 02:04.10 | socinfo | "next" is of course, you could get coding already. |
| 02:04.13 | ojwb | socinfo: forget next |
| 02:04.13 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
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| 02:06.27 | ojwb | socinfo: learn next as Check to see if you're accepted by visiting organization home pages at http://tinyurl.com/orghome Accepted students will be added to the private student mailing list in the next few days and Google will ask for tax forms and proof of enrollment later. Meanwhile, start bonding with your community. |
| 02:06.27 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
| 02:06.37 | ojwb | hmm, kind of long |
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| 02:07.26 | ojwb | actually, same length as before |
| 02:07.39 | gregarei | At which point the mass emails begin :) |
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| 02:09.59 | johndbritton_ | welcomes all the new gsocers for 2009 |
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| 02:11.48 | z4chh | still awaits his email |
| 02:11.53 | z4chh | :D |
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| 02:16.11 | z4chh | there an official/semi-official facebook group for soc? |
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| 02:19.03 | brlcad | z4chh: yes |
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| 02:27.20 | pygi | woot |
| 02:27.23 | pygi | where did homunq go |
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| 03:02.59 | johndbritton_ | lh: ping |
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| 03:21.15 | aluink | man...it's quiet in here now |
| 03:21.34 | omniter | *rustle* |
| 03:22.35 | Toba | GET AWAY FROM MY CATTLE, SCOUNDREL |
| 03:22.59 | omniter | DRATS! I'VE BEEN CAUGHT! |
| 03:23.22 | Toba | i shot the rustler but i did not shoot the hustler |
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| 03:31.35 | touchaddict | wonders if he's still muted |
| 03:31.41 | touchaddict | check123 |
| 03:31.42 | touchaddict | :) |
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| 03:34.36 | llnz | lh: pm? |
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| 03:44.14 | ravenlock | are the students e-mail addresses available (to the admins) via the google/appspot application? I can't seem to find them. |
| 03:45.03 | ojwb | no |
| 03:45.34 | ojwb | unless they are included in the application text |
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| 04:14.51 | Landon | I do believe I'm going to stat using my notepad again |
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| 04:17.35 | Landon | !s/stat/start/ |
| 04:17.35 | socinfo | Error: "s/stat/start/" is not a valid command. |
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| 04:20.34 | touchaddict | !next |
| 04:20.34 | socinfo | "next" is Check to see if you're accepted by visiting organization home pages at http://tinyurl.com/orghome Accepted students will be added to the private student mailing list in the next few days and Google will ask for tax forms and proof of enrollment later. Meanwhile, start bonding with your community. |
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| 04:32.31 | ar1nd4m | hi, can I contribute to gsoc while at vacation in another country ? |
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| 04:38.51 | wiking | !next |
| 04:38.52 | socinfo | "next" is Check to see if you're accepted by visiting organization home pages at http://tinyurl.com/orghome Accepted students will be added to the private student mailing list in the next few days and Google will ask for tax forms and proof of enrollment later. Meanwhile, start bonding with your community. |
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| 04:40.30 | ojwb | ar1nd4m: um, it's a bit late to be asking such questions |
| 04:40.59 | ar1nd4m | ojwb, not really, this decides my vacation :| |
| 04:41.06 | ojwb | ah |
| 04:41.20 | ar1nd4m | ojwb, any ideas ? |
| 04:41.26 | ojwb | my understanding is you need to be legally permitted to work in all the countries you'll be working in |
| 04:41.43 | ojwb | and depending on tax rules, you might get taxed by each |
| 04:41.48 | ar1nd4m | I hear that that is only for a trip to US |
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| 04:42.34 | ojwb | which is? |
| 04:43.22 | ar1nd4m | as in, if you go for a trip at US during gsoc, you need a work permit, but not for other countries. |
| 04:43.26 | ar1nd4m | but I am not sure' |
| 04:43.59 | ArthurLiu | why are you all worrying over this.. |
| 04:44.13 | ArthurLiu | just pretend you stopped working on your gsoc project during your trip in the US |
| 04:44.18 | ArthurLiu | and everything will be fine |
| 04:44.38 | atulagrwl | yes the best solution will be not to work while on vacation :P |
| 04:44.40 | ar1nd4m | ArthurLiu, yes, there are always workarounds |
| 04:45.10 | ar1nd4m | I am trying to find the best possible solution |
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| 04:46.21 | ArthurLiu | ar1nd4m, nobody will check on you |
| 04:46.23 | ArthurLiu | really |
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| 04:52.20 | ojwb | if you're going to work in a country, you need permission to work their - either a work permit, or by some arrangement the countries have |
| 04:52.38 | ojwb | e.g within the EU |
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| 04:56.23 | absabs | !slots |
| 04:56.23 | socinfo | "slots" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/studentallocations |
| 04:56.32 | absabs | !numapps |
| 04:56.32 | socinfo | "numapps" is This year there are 395 mentoring org apps. That's less than the 500 last year, but there's also much less spam. There are 5900 proposals from 3500 students. |
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| 05:04.28 | suran | Hi y'all. My name's in the selected students list under ASF, but i din't receive an email yet. Is this a normal delay? |
| 05:04.51 | Landon | suran: emails are SLOW |
| 05:04.54 | skbohra | hi think so, as I too didn't get mail yet |
| 05:04.55 | Landon | I just got mine an hour ago |
| 05:05.18 | Landon | so don't get too worried |
| 05:05.28 | suran | all righty. thanks! |
| 05:05.37 | suran | and congratulations to all! |
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| 05:07.41 | skbohra | suran: to you too |
| 05:07.57 | skbohra | 3 selections from my class w00t |
| 05:08.21 | Landon | is probably the only one from his school again |
| 05:08.47 | skbohra | Landon: which school? |
| 05:09.05 | Landon | kansas state university |
| 05:09.42 | andguent | is there a list country/university/city wide? |
| 05:09.57 | skbohra | too interested in that |
| 05:10.56 | alanp | is probably the only person for his school too |
| 05:11.06 | alanp | and we're working on the same project :-) |
| 05:12.35 | Fou_Fou | I think I'm the only one from my school as well |
| 05:13.47 | andguent | skbohra: on http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/ is at least the figures per country |
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| 05:30.18 | jpye | Anyone here from the FFMPEG project? |
| 05:31.16 | ArthurLiu | !anyone |
| 05:31.16 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
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| 05:33.10 | jpye | ArthurLiu: ? |
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| 05:45.05 | rocky_h | !peak |
| 05:45.05 | socinfo | "peak" is Peak for #gsoc@freenode: 874 (Mon Apr 21 14:44:36 2008) |
| 05:45.17 | rocky_h | wow.. |
| 05:45.28 | Catfish_Man | still a good deal smaller than #ubuntu |
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| 05:47.46 | Landon | rocky_h: noting that that was last years peak |
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| 05:47.53 | Landon | this years didn't even tap 800 I think |
| 05:48.13 | joeyadams | It did |
| 05:48.23 | joeyadams | It got to 801 or so |
| 05:48.32 | joeyadams | maybe up to 820, I forget |
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| 05:55.45 | D3f0 | is away: Ausente por el momento |
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| 06:33.10 | skbohra | !next |
| 06:33.11 | socinfo | "next" is Check to see if you're accepted by visiting organization home pages at http://tinyurl.com/orghome Accepted students will be added to the private student mailing list in the next few days and Google will ask for tax forms and proof of enrollment later. Meanwhile, start bonding with your community. |
| 06:33.24 | skbohra | thanks |
| 06:33.47 | ecin_ | expects the bot to feel happy with the appreciation. |
| 06:33.57 | skbohra | !thanks |
| 06:33.58 | socinfo | "thanks" is You are welcome! My digital purpose is to serve. |
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| 06:50.43 | martyfuhry | How are other students formatting their Summer of Code Blogs? Are most of you integrating it into your personal blog, or do you keep it separate? |
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| 06:54.40 | arunreddy | !next |
| 06:54.41 | socinfo | "next" is Check to see if you're accepted by visiting organization home pages at http://tinyurl.com/orghome Accepted students will be added to the private student mailing list in the next few days and Google will ask for tax forms and proof of enrollment later. Meanwhile, start bonding with your community. |
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| 07:00.24 | kblin | morning folks |
| 07:00.46 | ThomasWaldmann | moin :) |
| 07:01.36 | kblin | aw |
| 07:02.16 | skiquel | hi |
| 07:02.21 | kblin | lh closed my latest melange issue as WONTFIX :/ |
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| 07:02.33 | sid0 | kblin: the delay by one minute one? :) |
| 07:03.20 | kblin | yeah |
| 07:03.21 | ajuonline | allisterb: thank you!! :) |
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| 07:03.26 | sid0 | lol |
| 07:03.40 | ajuonline | allisterb: what about you? |
| 07:04.30 | skiquel | thirdparty/google_appengine/dev_appserver.py app |
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| 07:06.56 | spectie | mornin' all |
| 07:07.06 | aghisla | hi spectie |
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| 07:07.55 | hypa7ia | hey skiquel |
| 07:08.09 | hypa7ia | planet-soc isn't sending out validation emails when you create an account with openid |
| 07:08.34 | *** join/#gsoc ricardo-vlh (n=ricardo-@107.66.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt) |
| 07:08.39 | skiquel | hypa7ia, can you login? |
| 07:08.51 | hypa7ia | skiquel: nope |
| 07:08.53 | spectie | skiquel, also are we supposed to get emails with passwords etc. |
| 07:08.58 | hypa7ia | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:08.59 | hypa7ia | oops |
| 07:09.08 | hypa7ia | that was NOT the text i intended to paste, lol |
| 07:09.11 | hypa7ia | You must validate your email address for this account before logging in via OpenID |
| 07:09.11 | skiquel | spectie: well, we verify manually with the publicly lists |
| 07:09.13 | hypa7ia | that was |
| 07:09.16 | spectie | i'm on there but not activated |
| 07:09.38 | spectie | http://www.planet-soc.com/node/2597 |
| 07:09.40 | spectie | this is me :) |
| 07:10.01 | skiquel | do you have a URL I can run you 2/3 up against? |
| 07:10.18 | spectie | yeah |
| 07:10.22 | spectie | http://socghop.appspot.com/org/home/google/gsoc2009/apertium |
| 07:10.30 | spectie | google my name too |
| 07:10.34 | skiquel | oh good. |
| 07:10.36 | hypa7ia | skiquel: http://socghop.appspot.com/org/home/google/gsoc2009/xelerance |
| 07:10.37 | skiquel | they're up |
| 07:10.53 | spectie | i like totally promise i'm not tricking you! |
| 07:10.57 | hypa7ia | hmm, that page has nothing about me o_0 |
| 07:11.17 | hypa7ia | http://hypatia.ca/2009/03/xelerance-google-summer-of-code/ ? |
| 07:11.42 | spectie | http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/User:Francis_Tyers <-- this is my wiki page |
| 07:11.53 | hypa7ia | ahh, this one has my name all over it: http://www.xelerance.com/GSoC2009/ |
| 07:11.58 | *** join/#gsoc liu (n=feng@218.64.17.227) |
| 07:12.29 | ojwb | this seems a novel new authentication model |
| 07:12.46 | martyfuhry | Is anyone writing a blog for their project this summer? |
| 07:13.15 | hypa7ia | ojwb: i was just pondering the ridiculosity of all this :) |
| 07:13.31 | ojwb | martyfuhry: a lot of students do |
| 07:13.48 | runasand | martyfuhry: I plan on doing that |
| 07:14.17 | martyfuhry | runasand: Are you planning on creating a new blog specifically for this project or integrating it into your personal blog? |
| 07:14.53 | ajuonline | !india |
| 07:14.53 | socinfo | "india" is GSoC Indian Community on IRC ##gsoc-india Mailing List: http://groups.google.com/group/gsoc-india?hl=en And help populate the Indian Students List/Profiles here: http://tinyurl.com/dhbud9 |
| 07:14.59 | skiquel | spectie: ah, a mentor! |
| 07:15.02 | l0nwlf_ | I have the same doubt as martyfuhry , will it be better to create a blog or integrate it into personal blog |
| 07:15.03 | spectie | skiquel, yep |
| 07:15.10 | skiquel | can you 3 try logging in now? |
| 07:15.16 | hts | !next |
| 07:15.16 | socinfo | "next" is Check to see if you're accepted by visiting organization home pages at http://tinyurl.com/orghome Accepted students will be added to the private student mailing list in the next few days and Google will ask for tax forms and proof of enrollment later. Meanwhile, start bonding with your community. |
| 07:15.18 | spectie | sure but i have no idea of my password |
| 07:15.19 | hts | !brasil |
| 07:15.20 | socinfo | Error: "brasil" is not a valid command. |
| 07:15.22 | hts | !brazil |
| 07:15.22 | socinfo | Error: "brazil" is not a valid command. |
| 07:15.26 | spectie | now i do :) |
| 07:15.29 | ajuonline | we can add feeds to our blogs - right? |
| 07:15.36 | hts | !br |
| 07:15.36 | socinfo | Error: "br" is not a valid command. |
| 07:15.37 | ajuonline | skiquel: ^ [ we did this last year] |
| 07:15.46 | runasand | martyfuhry: I'm thinking about creating a new blog for this project. |
| 07:16.09 | Chrononaut | we're creating a new blog for the project as well |
| 07:16.49 | skiquel | ajuonline: you're good to go |
| 07:16.55 | spectie | skiquel, is the site localised ? |
| 07:17.01 | skiquel | spectie: did you manage to get in? |
| 07:17.01 | runasand | skiquel: is planet-soc an official gsoc-thing? |
| 07:17.05 | spectie | yes |
| 07:17.20 | skiquel | runasand: It was last year.. After my dumb comment in 2 channels earlier, I don't know. |
| 07:17.21 | hypa7ia | skiquel: i'm a mentor too (and org admin) |
| 07:17.24 | skiquel | =P |
| 07:17.30 | spectie | skiquel, can i change the interface language to catalan or en_GB ? |
| 07:17.32 | *** join/#gsoc xiaohui (n=xiaohui@60.12.143.12) |
| 07:17.32 | runasand | skiquel: ah :p |
| 07:17.41 | ajuonline | runasand: yes it is. |
| 07:17.42 | spectie | ps. thanks for enabling the account |
| 07:17.52 | ajuonline | spectie: yAy~ i am in :) |
| 07:18.03 | skiquel | spectie: Currently no localiziation |
| 07:18.04 | runasand | ajuonline: ah, thanks :) |
| 07:18.05 | skiquel | oh yay! |
| 07:18.07 | spectie | skiquel, ( |
| 07:18.16 | skiquel | spectie: where are you from? |
| 07:18.25 | ajuonline | apertium-land? |
| 07:18.26 | spectie | i'm english but i live in the comunitat valenciana in spain |
| 07:18.34 | skiquel | ohh! |
| 07:18.46 | kblin | actually, it's not |
| 07:18.50 | *** join/#gsoc kuarezma (n=kuarezma@wnn72112.wireless.dtu.dk) |
| 07:18.54 | kblin | runasand: it's the inofficial community site for gsoc |
| 07:19.02 | kblin | runasand: but as far as I'm aware google has nothing to do with it |
| 07:19.11 | runasand | ok :) |
| 07:19.13 | spectie | skiquel, how hard would it be to switch on localisation ? |
| 07:19.24 | spectie | skiquel, the site runs drupal and drupal is localised in _many_ languages |
| 07:19.46 | skiquel | hmm, I would have to check with people in #drupal with experience in it |
| 07:19.58 | spectie | please do :) |
| 07:20.04 | skiquel | kblin: http://2008.planet-soc.com/ last year |
| 07:20.46 | *** join/#gsoc STUDENT (n=chatzill@210.211.128.128) |
| 07:21.36 | ajuonline | smtms: i dont spam :P |
| 07:21.39 | spectie | skiquel, are you using debian ? |
| 07:21.51 | skiquel | spectie: ubuntu |
| 07:21.51 | ajuonline | smtms: r0bby does :D |
| 07:21.53 | spectie | ok |
| 07:22.00 | spectie | let me see |
| 07:22.01 | skiquel | spectie: on the server, you mean? |
| 07:22.05 | spectie | yeah |
| 07:22.21 | skiquel | i think RHEL |
| 07:22.46 | spectie | http://drupal.org/project/Translations |
| 07:23.01 | spectie | which version are you running ? |
| 07:23.08 | skiquel | 6.x |
| 07:23.17 | spectie | http://drupal.org/project/ca |
| 07:23.19 | spectie | here |
| 07:23.38 | spectie | apparently you can just unzip a file |
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| 07:25.32 | skiquel | spectie: I am going to look into that, we have a lot of people from around the world who may benefit from that |
| 07:25.38 | thebolt | hi all |
| 07:25.38 | spectie | skiquel, thanks! |
| 07:25.59 | sugree | skiquel: i'm in |
| 07:26.01 | spectie | they don't have en_GB |
| 07:26.05 | *** join/#gsoc glenker_ (i=2ae77582@linux.ucla.edu) |
| 07:26.05 | spectie | but i'll live with ca_ES :) |
| 07:26.13 | kblin | skiquel: oh, I see.. I last read the text on that page in.. 2006, I guess, when it still said unofficial |
| 07:26.16 | thebolt | just "failed" one midterm.. oh well, hopefully the course is still passable |
| 07:26.19 | kblin | runasand: I stand corrected then, it's an official thing |
| 07:26.32 | kblin | thebolt: aw |
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| 07:26.50 | glenker_ | do students have the option of turning down an accepted proposal? If so, when is the deadline to do so? |
| 07:26.56 | thebolt | kblin: it was expected.. actually went a bit better than i thought ;) |
| 07:27.01 | spectie | glenker_, you can always bail out |
| 07:27.02 | thebolt | (ie it was less hard than it could have been) |
| 07:27.35 | skiquel | sugree: Hi |
| 07:28.11 | skiquel | sugree can help validate planet soc accounts. |
| 07:28.17 | sugree | skiquel: don't know how to verify nick... |
| 07:28.42 | sugree | well, those are handle names actually. |
| 07:28.54 | sugree | probably i can ask them here? |
| 07:28.59 | skiquel | sugree: on IRC? or on planet soc? |
| 07:29.10 | kblin | thebolt: it's a better F than expected? |
| 07:29.12 | kblin | ;) |
| 07:29.32 | sugree | skiquel: on planet soc. |
| 07:29.34 | thebolt | kblin: thing is you don't fail or pass exams.. just get a percentage |
| 07:29.42 | kblin | ah, ok |
| 07:30.01 | thebolt | kblin: that percentage is then normalized for the exam (given average and then a good spread), multiplied by the relative weight of the exam and added to your final score |
| 07:30.04 | *** part/#gsoc xiaohui (n=xiaohui@60.12.143.12) |
| 07:30.15 | thebolt | kblin: the final score is then (once again) normalized across the class (usually) |
| 07:30.18 | kblin | thebolt: I just remembered a friend of mine failing his very first english examn with an "F, should be a G" |
| 07:30.23 | sugree | Donnie? |
| 07:30.36 | thebolt | (relative grades.. yay, this time they work for my advantage :P) |
| 07:30.39 | thebolt | kblin: hehe |
| 07:30.41 | sugree | RainCT? |
| 07:32.06 | sugree | ah. i found lifeeth :) |
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| 07:37.33 | ojwb | glenker_: it's really unhelpful to drop out, so if you're going to, do it sooner so your slot can still be used |
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| 07:38.32 | sugree | spotted a user error. lol. continue approving. |
| 07:38.50 | glenker_ | oh ok, so slots that are dropped are offered to other proposals |
| 07:38.59 | ojwb | I hope so |
| 07:39.07 | kblin | glenker_: not anymore |
| 07:39.10 | ojwb | if you'd done it yesterday it could have been |
| 07:39.14 | kblin | glenker_: the deadline was yesterday |
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| 07:40.10 | chenwl | hi |
| 07:40.29 | chenwl | where to find the list of mentor orgnizations |
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| 07:41.59 | merbzt | I have an issue with a duplicate student, who should I talk with ? |
| 07:42.04 | sugree | chenwl: http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
| 07:42.14 | ojwb | merbzt: talk to lh |
| 07:42.16 | *** join/#gsoc skbohr1 (n=shree@117.199.113.230) |
| 07:42.33 | chenwl | sugree thanks |
| 07:42.34 | merbzt | the student is apparently accepted to 2 organizations |
| 07:42.36 | ojwb | though you should be able to have a duplicate still |
| 07:42.36 | *** join/#gsoc gk (n=gk@unaffiliated/gk) |
| 07:42.57 | ojwb | unless they created two accounts or something |
| 07:43.24 | merbzt | ojwb: I did she is back the 22 of April |
| 07:43.30 | ajuonline | sugree: what I am supposed to enter in the "Student Project" the title / link? none is being accepted. |
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| 07:43.41 | ojwb | um, i mean "should not be able to" |
| 07:43.48 | spectie | ajuonline, i think you have to choose |
| 07:43.52 | spectie | when the student[s] have registered |
| 07:43.55 | merbzt | ojwb: got that |
| 07:43.56 | kblin | ojwb: there were some last minute changes |
| 07:44.00 | ojwb | merbzt: well, it is 00:43 in CA |
| 07:44.08 | merbzt | :) |
| 07:44.14 | ajuonline | spectie: no choices - to choose from :) |
| 07:44.17 | spectie | yeah |
| 07:44.23 | kblin | ojwb: lh isn't bacl in CA yet |
| 07:44.30 | spectie | maybe there are no students registered in your project ? :) |
| 07:44.42 | merbzt | kblin: so I still should talk to lh about this ? |
| 07:44.52 | ojwb | kblin: ok, it's still the middle of the night in the whole US |
| 07:45.15 | sugree | ajuonline: create your project and type the title in that field |
| 07:45.28 | sugree | ajuonline: you are approved |
| 07:45.33 | antarus | thats a clue that I should go to bed.. |
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| 07:47.04 | ajuonline | sugree: how to create a project :/ |
| 07:47.07 | ajuonline | create content? |
| 07:47.35 | *** part/#gsoc jpye (n=jpye@thunder.anu.edu.au) |
| 07:48.31 | *** join/#gsoc amit8-88 (n=amit8-88@unaffiliated/amit8-88) |
| 07:48.42 | kblin | merbzt: you could talk to some of the melange folks |
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| 07:48.46 | runasand | skiquel: how long does the admin-aproval-process take? |
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| 07:49.44 | *** part/#gsoc nehul (n=nehulstu@59.178.143.136) |
| 07:50.40 | skiquel | runasand: 24-48 hrs, but we're approving as we speak |
| 07:51.24 | sugree | ajuonline: ah. will grant permission now. |
| 07:51.52 | skiquel | runasand: TOR? *bows* |
| 07:52.36 | skiquel | runasand: Approved |
| 07:53.23 | runasand | yay |
| 07:53.23 | runasand | :) |
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| 07:55.33 | skiquel | does anyone here know what project rainct is from? |
| 07:55.39 | *** part/#gsoc mmaruseacph2 (n=mihai@92.84.129.58) |
| 07:55.44 | skiquel | kblin: are you a Wesnoth programmer? |
| 07:56.03 | sugree | rainct == raincity? |
| 07:56.05 | ojwb | he's worldforge |
| 07:56.19 | skiquel | ahhh |
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| 07:56.41 | thebolt | just saw he got his rejection letter from google.. w00t :) |
| 07:56.53 | ojwb | frame it! |
| 07:56.56 | kblin | skiquel: all the westnoth folks have westnoth hostmasks |
| 07:57.10 | kblin | skiquel: Ivanovic is the usual suspect |
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| 07:57.13 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o SRabbelier] by ChanServ |
| 07:57.21 | kblin | hi SRabbelier |
| 07:57.26 | skiquel | hehe |
| 07:58.04 | SRabbelier | kblin: sup :) |
| 07:59.28 | sugree | to all students, create your project here. http://planet-soc.com/node/add/student-project |
| 07:59.28 | kblin | SRabbelier: GAE, it seems... a bit surprising after yesterday evening ;) |
| 07:59.59 | kblin | SRabbelier: but maybe you can help merbzt |
| 08:00.07 | kblin | merbzt: ping ^^^ |
| 08:00.51 | antarus | was a bit disappointed when looking at how GAE was deploying stuff |
| 08:01.14 | SRabbelier | kblin: what's wrong with it? :) |
| 08:01.26 | kblin | skiquel: so, what is the difference between an "organization official" and a mentor on planet-soc |
| 08:01.37 | kblin | SRabbelier: there still seems to be a dup |
| 08:02.21 | ajuonline | sugree: thank you :) |
| 08:02.24 | merbzt | SRabbelier: FFMPEG and ASCEND |
| 08:02.35 | merbzt | but I think it is resolved almost |
| 08:02.36 | SRabbelier | merbzt: correct |
| 08:02.45 | skiquel | kblin: chx isn't a mentor for drupal, but he could be considered an official because of his ties with the org |
| 08:02.47 | SRabbelier | merbzt: it's being worked on atm |
| 08:02.47 | merbzt | you gave him to us |
| 08:02.51 | sugree | cherez, raise your hand please. |
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| 08:03.19 | lifeeth | sugree, :) |
| 08:03.19 | merbzt | SRabbelier: ahh, you are even in my CC |
| 08:03.37 | SRabbelier | merbzt: if you are from ASCEND/FFMPEG then yes I am |
| 08:03.55 | merbzt | SRabbelier: can I consider the issue closed ? I'm Benjamin |
| 08:03.55 | kblin | skiquel: so "mentor" is a superset of "organization official" |
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| 08:05.33 | SRabbelier | merbzt: you're with ASCEND right? |
| 08:06.14 | ajuonline | sugree: warning: file_get_contents(http:) [function.file-get-contents]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/soc/domains/2009.planet-soc.com/public_html/sites/all/modules/feedapi/parser_simplepie/simplepie.inc on line 7792. |
| 08:06.30 | merbzt | SRabbelier: no FFmpeg |
| 08:06.35 | sugree | all students are approved |
| 08:06.38 | *** part/#gsoc amit8-88 (n=amit8-88@unaffiliated/amit8-88) |
| 08:06.46 | sugree | ajuonline: oops. |
| 08:07.10 | ajuonline | sugree: the content, however, got added :) |
| 08:07.19 | SRabbelier | merbzt: ah, and ASCEND has plenty other students |
| 08:07.21 | sugree | ajuonline: ah. probably wrong feed? |
| 08:07.23 | SRabbelier | merbzt: ok, gotcha |
| 08:07.37 | ajuonline | sugree: i did not provide any feed :/ |
| 08:07.48 | merbzt | SRabbelier: so FFmpeg got the student and the issue is resolved ? |
| 08:08.10 | gurkee | sugree, i just registered and mistyped the captcha. anyhow i got "Thank you for applying for an account." |
| 08:08.12 | *** join/#gsoc avox (n=Andreas@c159231.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 08:08.31 | lifeeth | sugree, also the openid seems failing |
| 08:08.32 | SRabbelier | merbzt: yes, sounds right to me |
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| 08:09.32 | merbzt | SRabbelier: ok goodie, thanks for your help and time |
| 08:09.36 | sugree | gurkee: ergh. let me check. |
| 08:09.38 | SRabbelier | merbzt: do you mind if I wait with deleting the project until lh is awake? |
| 08:09.43 | SRabbelier | merbzt: it's not doing any harm methinks? |
| 08:09.49 | gurkee | sugree, as a student i had to left "SoC GHOP URL: *" and "Student Project: " empty. was this okay? :) |
| 08:09.50 | sugree | lifeeth: already binded openid in my account? |
| 08:10.45 | lifeeth | sugree, oh!.. it is failing with blogspot openid |
| 08:10.45 | sugree | gurkee: not ok. you have to fill soc ghop url |
| 08:10.45 | *** join/#gsoc adam-_- (n=adam@84.13.149.31) |
| 08:10.45 | merbzt | SRabbelier: http://groups.google.com/group/melange-soc/browse_thread/thread/72bb6904f0e21e5d |
| 08:10.45 | sugree | lifeeth: yep. known problem with drupal... |
| 08:10.45 | kblin | pff |
| 08:10.47 | kblin | recaptcha is cool, but some words are impossible to decypher without context |
| 08:11.09 | SRabbelier | kblin: lol, isn't that the point? :P |
| 08:11.16 | merbzt | SRabbelier: do as you prefer as long as Colin gets assigned to FFmpeg |
| 08:11.34 | SRabbelier | merbzt: hehe, in the end it's not my call what happens anyway :) |
| 08:11.40 | kblin | SRabbelier: no |
| 08:11.44 | SRabbelier | merbzt: all I can do is change what's in the system |
| 08:11.51 | kblin | SRabbelier: the point is to keep automated systems out |
| 08:11.55 | kblin | SRabbelier: not real users |
| 08:12.08 | SRabbelier | kblin: did you read about Google's new "turn the image up" thing? |
| 08:12.21 | kblin | nope |
| 08:12.25 | Ivanovic | moin |
| 08:12.32 | kblin | hey Ivanovic |
| 08:12.41 | ajuonline | moin |
| 08:12.49 | merbzt | SRabbelier: ok, let's wait for lh then |
| 08:13.19 | gurkee | sugree, but directly under the field "SoC GHOP URL: *" there it is stated "The URL [..] of your organization." :-) this is a bit misleading for students.. :D. what do you mean with "fill soc ghop url"? the URL to my project? e.g. this: http://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/globus/t124022382233 ? |
| 08:13.39 | sugree | approved 2 new |
| 08:13.49 | kblin | gurkee: there's even an example |
| 08:13.49 | kblin | gurkee: just read |
| 08:14.01 | sugree | gurkee: no, just http://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/globus |
| 08:14.09 | sugree | kblin: approved |
| 08:14.16 | kblin | sugree: thanks |
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| 08:16.06 | kblin | damn |
| 08:16.13 | kblin | missed the user id of 42 |
| 08:16.26 | thebolt | :) |
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| 08:16.46 | gurkee | sugree, kblin : okay, so I have to choose my org from the dropdown list and additionally enter the url to it; i did not get this point, even with reading the example several times :D |
| 08:17.04 | *** join/#gsoc gangil (n=Gangil@117.96.86.155) |
| 08:17.14 | kblin | so, explain to me why planet-soc bitches about a low security password on an insecure connection? |
| 08:18.24 | ojwb | because it can? |
| 08:18.39 | ojwb | probably then emails to it you in the clear without warning |
| 08:19.16 | kblin | ojwb: that's why I don't bother to create secure passwords for insecure sites :) |
| 08:19.36 | ojwb | just has a script to generate random garbage passwords on demand |
| 08:19.56 | gurkee | sugree, did you enter the ghop url of my organization for me? my accout got approved and now the field is filled :) |
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| 08:20.07 | *** part/#gsoc mait (n=user@145.242.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) |
| 08:20.09 | sugree | gurkee: yes, sir :) free of charge. lol |
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| 08:20.57 | kblin | sugree: hm, I seem to have signed up as an org official, but I'm actually a mentor, can we fix this? |
| 08:21.31 | spectie | ojwb, lol |
| 08:21.45 | sugree | kblin: oops. my bad. |
| 08:22.01 | *** join/#gsoc npe__ (n=npe@195.207.5.2) |
| 08:22.14 | sugree | kblin: and also being a mentor? |
| 08:22.19 | *** join/#gsoc florinciu (n=chatzill@77.81.36.11) |
| 08:22.25 | sugree | kblin: now you are org official |
| 08:22.47 | cotto | istr a faq about this, but I couldn't find it just now. Does Google care if coding happens during the bonding period? |
| 08:22.57 | kblin | sugree: er. but I'm a mentor :) |
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| 08:23.18 | sugree | kblin: lol. ok. you are both. |
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| 08:23.43 | sugree | kblin: done. mentor and org official. |
| 08:23.55 | thebolt | sugree: can one sign up as lazy-ass hang-around? ;) |
| 08:24.15 | gurkee | sugree, thanks. more details on the captcha thing: there were two words and i only entered the first. then clicked "create new account" and got an error with the "Student Project: " field. solved this error. then there was no more captcha |
| 08:24.15 | spectie | cotto, no |
| 08:24.22 | kblin | thebolt: yeah |
| 08:24.26 | *** join/#gsoc vipintm (n=vipintm@59.92.89.68) |
| 08:24.27 | thebolt | (former org-admin, mentor and lazy-ass .P) |
| 08:24.37 | cotto | spectie, thanks |
| 08:24.48 | *** part/#gsoc vipintm (n=vipintm@59.92.89.68) |
| 08:25.08 | sugree | thebolt: interesting. some students will turn to lazy ass after 2 months by the way |
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| 08:26.05 | kblin | sugree: oh, I just saw that I can edit my soc status myself |
| 08:26.54 | *** part/#gsoc JoomlaCorner (i=3a880472@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b4d1ee8d619a4e51) |
| 08:27.08 | *** join/#gsoc thetet (n=thet@77.117.107.155.wireless.dyn.drei.com) |
| 08:27.28 | kblin | so I'm fine, and sorry for the confusion :) |
| 08:28.05 | kblin | I'm on a GRPS link, so web is a bit sluggish |
| 08:28.10 | sugree | kblin: you have to worry about roles and permission :) |
| 08:28.37 | kblin | ah, I see |
| 08:28.56 | *** join/#gsoc kuarezma (n=kuarezma@wnn72112.wireless.dtu.dk) |
| 08:29.06 | kblin | so there's the "soc status" and a separate role table |
| 08:29.10 | kblin | I guess that makes sense |
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| 08:30.56 | sugree | that's why we have to approve each account manually. |
| 08:31.34 | kblin | my lazy-ass student didn't change the topic for his proposal yet, so I'll just leave out that field... |
| 08:31.37 | kblin | ;) |
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| 08:32.07 | ajuonline | kblin: so you got the perfect student for ya? ;) |
| 08:32.57 | kblin | ajuonline: dunno yet. the student I wanted was too lazy to participate ;) |
| 08:33.18 | ajuonline | kblin: darn, so you missed the better alternative :P |
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| 08:39.41 | spectie | skiquel, how can i edit our organisation page ? |
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| 08:43.39 | kblin | man |
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| 08:43.55 | spectie | maan |
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| 08:44.57 | SRabbelier | nam? |
| 08:46.33 | sugree | spectie: let me check permission |
| 08:47.17 | sugree | spectie: what is your org url? |
| 08:47.25 | kblin | skiquel: wow, you folks really went and grabbed the logos for all the mentoring orgs. sounds like work :) |
| 08:47.30 | spectie | http://www.planet-soc.com/node/27 |
| 08:47.37 | spectie | not for mine :( |
| 08:48.06 | *** part/#gsoc jezdez (n=jezdez@unaffiliated/jezdez) |
| 08:48.34 | sugree | spectie: ok. what is your username? |
| 08:48.50 | spectie | ftyers |
| 08:49.06 | sugree | spectie: you got it. it's yours. |
| 08:49.09 | spectie | :) |
| 08:49.12 | spectie | thanks |
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| 08:49.23 | spectie | what the hell |
| 08:49.30 | spectie | sugree, now the apertium project comes up with my face!!! |
| 08:49.34 | sugree | spectie: don't forget to specify feed url... |
| 08:49.44 | spectie | you've changed the project into me!! |
| 08:49.45 | spectie | :s |
| 08:49.48 | sugree | spectie: :) gravatar did it job very nice |
| 08:49.56 | [RTS]BN2VS1 | Hey guys |
| 08:49.56 | [RTS]BN2VS1 | WHen do the accepted students get the google t-shirt? :d |
| 08:50.02 | kblin | though you took a badly pixeled version of the wine logo |
| 08:50.18 | kblin | [RTS]BN2VS1: when you've successfully completed the program |
| 08:50.38 | [RTS]BN2VS1 | oh damn, can't wait to get it :p |
| 08:50.48 | kblin | you'll have to wait though |
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| 08:51.14 | kblin | if you sit in front of your computer coding all summer, you don't need a new shirt anyway |
| 08:51.15 | *** join/#gsoc bigfun (n=bigfun@chello087206224188.chello.pl) |
| 08:51.28 | sugree | spectie: it's owner avatar... hmm. probably it should not be like that. skiquel, what do you think? |
| 08:51.41 | thebolt | kblin: or you definitely do ;) |
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| 08:51.51 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o mithro_] by ChanServ |
| 08:51.55 | [RTS]BN2VS1 | lol - btw, is it possible to get more then one? xD |
| 08:51.55 | kblin | and the shirt is more useful afterwards |
| 08:52.11 | kblin | [RTS]BN2VS1: sure, participate again next year |
| 08:52.15 | *** join/#gsoc RT|Chatzilla_ (n=rt@reactos/tester/RT) |
| 08:52.22 | kblin | then you get another shirt |
| 08:52.30 | [RTS]BN2VS1 | lol ok :p |
| 08:52.46 | kblin | or mentor, show up at the mentor summit and get an additional mentor summit shirt |
| 08:53.10 | [RTS]BN2VS1 | aha, ok, ty for the advice :) |
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| 08:53.41 | kblin | my gsoc shirt got me into conferences for free and got me free rides to other conferences |
| 08:53.51 | thebolt | kblin: nice :) |
| 08:54.00 | andguent | kblin: oh, how is that? |
| 08:54.53 | kblin | andguent: well, my gsoc 2005 project got me an invitation to SambaXP 2006 |
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| 08:57.06 | kblin | andguent: so the ladies at the sign-up counter saw the shirt and said "you must be Kai, here's your free conference ticket" |
| 08:57.25 | spectie | sugree, i still can't edit the page though |
| 08:57.25 | spectie | or change anything :s |
| 08:57.36 | andguent | kblin: when are the tshirts shipped? |
| 08:57.40 | andguent | now or at the end? |
| 08:57.47 | kblin | and when I was travelling to WineConf later that year, I bumped into another wine dev in heathrow who was going to the conf as well. he had a rental car, so I didn't have to get a bus ticket :) |
| 08:57.59 | sugree | spectie: oops. hmm. let me check at home. leave right now. |
| 08:58.06 | kblin | andguent: at the end of gsoc |
| 08:58.11 | sugree | skiquel: please check spectie |
| 08:58.17 | andguent | nice :) |
| 08:58.24 | spectie | :) |
| 08:58.26 | andguent | hopefully it suites me well |
| 08:58.28 | spectie | ugh, heathrow :s |
| 08:58.30 | spectie | ok sugree |
| 08:58.30 | kblin | andguent: you only get a shirt if you successfully complete your project |
| 08:58.42 | andguent | kblin: now that's a motivation ;) |
| 08:58.43 | thebolt | kblin: i managed to find another mentor on SFO going to the first mentor conference wearing a debian t-shirt ;) |
| 08:59.17 | thebolt | took some consideration if you wanted to mix with such people.. but in the end we traveled down to MW together ;) |
| 08:59.19 | kblin | thebolt: that works, but less reliably |
| 08:59.33 | skiquel | yo back |
| 08:59.54 | kblin | thebolt: I've seen many people in debian shirts who aren't even debian devs |
| 09:00.08 | kblin | thebolt: and there's probably more of those in silicon valley |
| 09:00.26 | thebolt | kblin: yea |
| 09:00.46 | thebolt | kblin: well, i know there were going some people on the same plane to the conf though (paris->sfo flight) |
| 09:01.03 | thebolt | and i saw him at the luggage pickup |
| 09:01.07 | kblin | fair enough |
| 09:01.08 | MaNI | for a million dollars you can have mine |
| 09:01.15 | skiquel | Sup3rkiddo: what about spectie |
| 09:01.34 | spectie | skiquel, my picture is our org logo |
| 09:01.36 | spectie | my face i mean |
| 09:01.39 | spectie | and i can't edit it |
| 09:02.10 | kblin | thebolt: I actually met up with Ivanovic and mordante in heathrow on my way to the last mentor summit |
| 09:02.25 | kblin | that was fun |
| 09:02.28 | thebolt | kblin: :) |
| 09:02.56 | thebolt | last time it just happened that the guy next to me on hte plane was living in MV, so took the train together down |
| 09:03.08 | skiquel | spectie: what error do you get it? (if any)? |
| 09:03.17 | thebolt | vitnamese-american business/it-guy ;) |
| 09:03.20 | spectie | skiquel, the error is that my face is coming up as our organisation logo |
| 09:03.27 | thebolt | vietnamese* |
| 09:03.27 | spectie | skiquel, and that i can't edit our organisation page |
| 09:03.28 | spectie | :) |
| 09:03.50 | skiquel | spectie: gotcha |
| 09:03.54 | kblin | andguent: and of course once you're an open source developer, you'll end up meeting all sorts of cool people |
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| 09:04.11 | kblin | andguent: like on the mentor summit, or other confs |
| 09:04.17 | straydawg | the mentor summit.. ROCKS |
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| 09:04.52 | skiquel | spectie: your username again? |
| 09:04.57 | andguent | kblin: currently i am so dramatically cash strapped. i can't even visit my family. so conferences is currently a no go |
| 09:05.02 | skiquel | I should make a user profile field for freenode nicks |
| 09:05.14 | spectie | skiquel, ftyers |
| 09:06.02 | skiquel | spectie: so how does it feel to be the lead face of apertium? |
| 09:06.04 | skiquel | hehe |
| 09:06.13 | spectie | haha |
| 09:06.19 | spectie | well, don't let it go on for too long |
| 09:06.22 | spectie | some people already think that! |
| 09:06.32 | kblin | andguent: that should change once you finished gsoc :) |
| 09:06.35 | ajuonline | oh yeah, spectie ftw!! |
| 09:06.37 | ajuonline | :P |
| 09:06.37 | skiquel | spectie: hmm |
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| 09:07.07 | andguent | kblin: hopefully... :) |
| 09:08.35 | kblin | andguent: after doing gsoc three times, I really noticed the dent of mentoring on my account last year.. :) |
| 09:09.00 | kblin | not that I can complain, I volunteered |
| 09:09.26 | andguent | my project will be pretty challenging |
| 09:09.59 | skiquel | spectie: try to edit now |
| 09:10.00 | andguent | it's not exactly my level of expertise...but from times to times i like challenges ;) |
| 09:10.32 | spectie | skiquel, no joy |
| 09:10.34 | spectie | now we have a drupal logo |
| 09:10.40 | spectie | and my face stays there :D |
| 09:10.40 | skiquel | try to edit it |
| 09:10.49 | spectie | there is no edit link |
| 09:10.56 | skiquel | hmm |
| 09:11.00 | spectie | want me to send a screenshot ? |
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| 09:11.45 | skiquel | spectie: im going to give studnets/mentors ability to edit organization |
| 09:11.53 | spectie | ok |
| 09:12.15 | skiquel | refresh? |
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| 09:12.38 | *** join/#gsoc lfranchi (n=quassel@140.105.164.27) |
| 09:12.53 | p_l | btw, for students that might need to work on projects with Microsoft platforms in mind, there's a free license available (only for students, my friend is going over the license now) |
| 09:13.08 | andguent | p_1: oh here |
| 09:13.14 | andguent | p_1: i would need licenses |
| 09:13.19 | spectie | there we are |
| 09:13.58 | skiquel | now as for profile pics coming up for projects |
| 09:14.35 | kblin | p_l: that wouldn't happen to be that crappy MSDNAA licensing scheme? |
| 09:15.17 | p_l | kblin: looks like something other, outside of MSDNAA |
| 09:15.57 | p_l | I assume that GSoC projects would be considered "non-commercial work"? |
| 09:16.22 | ajuonline | !numapps |
| 09:16.22 | socinfo | "numapps" is This year there are 395 mentoring org apps. That's less than the 500 last year, but there's also much less spam. There are 5900 proposals from 3500 students. |
| 09:16.23 | kblin | p_l: no |
| 09:16.40 | sanooj | p_l: moneys are exchanging hands. |
| 09:16.42 | kblin | p_l: legally speaking, I think it's work as a contractor |
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| 09:16.54 | p_l | hmm... then it unfortunately doesn't apply |
| 09:16.58 | spectie | skiquel, looking much better now thanks!! |
| 09:17.03 | kblin | p_l: of course the usual IANAL disclaimer applies |
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| 09:17.12 | LawnGnome | p_l: DreamSpark is what you're thinking of, I think. |
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| 09:17.12 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o Catfish_Man] by ChanServ |
| 09:17.17 | p_l | LawnGnome: Yeah |
| 09:17.31 | skiquel | spectie: Apterium has nice logo :D |
| 09:17.41 | kblin | but students are definitely paid |
| 09:17.41 | spectie | thanks :) |
| 09:17.45 | spectie | oops |
| 09:17.47 | spectie | it is a bit big! |
| 09:17.56 | spectie | skiquel, where are you from btw ? |
| 09:18.03 | skiquel | it's fine |
| 09:18.05 | skiquel | chicago. |
| 09:18.14 | spectie | :) |
| 09:18.17 | skiquel | :D |
| 09:18.49 | p_l | kblin: the license states "You may not commercially _distribute_ the software build using those tools" |
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| 09:19.09 | kblin | uh |
| 09:19.18 | LawnGnome | p_l: It's an interesting one, because the FAQ at least is pretty handwavy: This software is the complete and professional grade versions of the tools, but you must use them in pursuit of increasing your education, skills, and knowledge in either science, technology, engineering, mathematics, or design. |
| 09:19.22 | kblin | p_l: that's incompatible with most open source licenses, I guess |
| 09:19.42 | p_l | I guess it would depend on the country, but then GSoC is done by google... |
| 09:19.43 | Dark_Shikari | yes, I think that fails the OSI requirements |
| 09:19.53 | LawnGnome | There'd be a reasonable argument that GSoC is "in pursuit of increasing your education, skills", but I haven't gone through the whole license agreement. |
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| 09:20.27 | p_l | well, then, for those of you who got windows-related projects and no license, I recommend going over beta versions' licenses :) |
| 09:20.46 | LawnGnome | Quite. :) |
| 09:20.55 | kblin | the visual studio express edition license was sane last time I checked |
| 09:21.18 | sanooj | wasn't some crippled version of VS2005 free-as-in-beer + do whatever you want with it at one point? |
| 09:21.21 | thebolt | kblin: yep, still is |
| 09:21.24 | kblin | and you can turn on most advanced features changing one little javascript file |
| 09:21.39 | thebolt | sanooj: still is.. and its not really crippled, just scaled down |
| 09:21.40 | LawnGnome | kblin: Yeah, the reality is that Microsoft are desperate to get the next generation of professional coders and techies indoctrinated... er, used to their product range, and they're prepared to give some software away under liberal licenses to make it happen. |
| 09:21.41 | p_l | kblin: 2008 Express is less crippled |
| 09:21.55 | LawnGnome | Relatively liberal, anyway. |
| 09:22.01 | Dark_Shikari | a crippled version of VS2005 is like taking an athritic old man and then breaking his leg |
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| 09:22.22 | kblin | LawnGnome: "You may not commercially _distribute_ the software build using those tools" doesn't look very liberal in my book |
| 09:22.24 | p_l | Actually you can get the "IDE Shell" and then combine it with various language components to build stuff like F# Express :D |
| 09:22.28 | spectie | skiquel, how big should the logo be ? |
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| 09:22.54 | p_l | kblin: it might quite easily avoided, I guess. But IANAL |
| 09:22.58 | kblin | there's good free ides even for windows |
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| 09:23.06 | sanooj | they're called emacs and vim. ;0 |
| 09:23.08 | kblin | hugs gcc and vim |
| 09:23.12 | LawnGnome | kblin: Hence my "relatively liberal" correction. I really meant liberal by the usual standards of Microsoft and kin. :) |
| 09:23.21 | thebolt | i won't even enter this discussion though |
| 09:23.21 | Dark_Shikari | and anyways the IDE part of VS2005 doesn't "build" anything |
| 09:23.23 | Dark_Shikari | it's the compiler that does |
| 09:23.33 | thebolt | is a MSVC user and liker ;) |
| 09:23.35 | kblin | free as in speech, not free as in beer |
| 09:23.36 | Dark_Shikari | and the microsoft compiler is an awful useless piece of crap so even if you like VS2005 you should be using GCC anyways |
| 09:23.45 | Dark_Shikari | (or ICC) |
| 09:23.47 | sanooj | eh? |
| 09:23.51 | thebolt | Dark_Shikari: eh, no |
| 09:23.54 | Dark_Shikari | it doesn't support C99 |
| 09:23.56 | Dark_Shikari | it's the year 2009 |
| 09:24.01 | thebolt | it is not a c compiler :P |
| 09:24.04 | Dark_Shikari | Yes it is |
| 09:24.07 | Dark_Shikari | =p |
| 09:24.08 | thebolt | it is a c++ compiler |
| 09:24.11 | sanooj | last I cared to look (in 2003) VS kicked the crap out of gcc. |
| 09:24.19 | Dark_Shikari | VS doesn't even properly align the stack |
| 09:24.20 | Catfish_Man | gcc's come a long way since then |
| 09:24.22 | p_l | Dark_Shikari: I would disagree. I'm not going to use a crippled compilation system. GCC on Win32 isn't the best thing |
| 09:24.26 | Dark_Shikari | thus we have to disable tons of our asm when compiling under it |
| 09:24.33 | Dark_Shikari | p_l: it's no worse than gcc on linux... |
| 09:24.35 | Catfish_Man | it's still not great, but it's not bad either |
| 09:24.46 | Catfish_Man | (externally anyway... in most ways) |
| 09:25.10 | Dark_Shikari | I mean, gcc is retarded. But so is everything else |
| 09:25.13 | thebolt | i have yet to see a worse compiler in terms of compile-time than gcc for PS3, especially compared to VC for xbox360.. |
| 09:25.19 | p_l | Dark_Shikari: It's worse because of different ABIs. Basically, on Linux, GCC is the main player creating the ABI. On Windows, MS compilers. GCC doesn't play well with that |
| 09:25.26 | Dark_Shikari | well that's unsurprising, gcc tends to be worse on obscure architectures |
| 09:25.34 | Dark_Shikari | p_l: the API is standardized |
| 09:25.41 | Dark_Shikari | er, ABI |
| 09:25.43 | Dark_Shikari | it's called "cdecl" |
| 09:25.49 | thebolt | (compare 20+minutes to 5 minutes for a relativly large project) |
| 09:25.55 | Dark_Shikari | yes, windows 64-bit created its own really dumb one. But gcc still supports it |
| 09:26.15 | Dark_Shikari | thebolt: if you're bottlenecked by compilation time you're probably doing it wrong |
| 09:26.22 | Mek | 20+minutes does not sound like a large project... :P |
| 09:26.30 | Dark_Shikari | that is, when you modify one file, if it takes 20 minutes to recompile the program, your program is structured badly |
| 09:26.41 | p_l | Dark_Shikari: GCC is quite well known for being awfully slow on compilation. No matter how program is structured |
| 09:26.46 | Catfish_Man | Dark_Shikari: to be fair, I've been doing build system changes on adium lately |
| 09:26.50 | Dark_Shikari | I've never experienced such a thing |
| 09:26.52 | Catfish_Man | and those tend to do full rebuilds each time :( |
| 09:26.53 | Dark_Shikari | gcc is absurdly fast here |
| 09:26.57 | Dark_Shikari | I can compile a 400KLOC codebase in 10 seconds |
| 09:27.01 | Dark_Shikari | ... with full optimizations |
| 09:27.09 | Catfish_Man | O_o |
| 09:27.12 | sanooj | p_l: it's g++ actually that's a pig. gcc doing C feels much faster. |
| 09:27.14 | Dark_Shikari | ok, so that's on a core i7 |
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| 09:27.16 | dwibd | hey |
| 09:27.18 | Dark_Shikari | and yes, g++ is slow. gcc is not. |
| 09:27.19 | thebolt | Dark_Shikari: no, that was for a full recompile.. (on a 8core xeon machine) |
| 09:27.26 | thebolt | and yes, c++ code, not c :P |
| 09:27.30 | Catfish_Man | ~200kloc, ~9 minute build, not C++ |
| 09:27.34 | dwibd | chat |
| 09:27.35 | Catfish_Man | 2GHz Core 2 Duo |
| 09:27.38 | Dark_Shikari | the proper solution to this is to not use C++ |
| 09:27.46 | p_l | 400KLOC isn't that much for the projects I was thinking about... |
| 09:27.48 | dwibd | 3 ghz quad core |
| 09:27.49 | Catfish_Man | Dark_Shikari: I tried that solution, it didn't work |
| 09:27.57 | dwibd | 2.66 ghz quad core |
| 09:27.58 | Dark_Shikari | if I had to work on a codebase that took 5 minutes to compile every time I made a change |
| 09:28.03 | sanooj | Dark_Shikari: yes, that's the proper solution to most things involving c++. ;) |
| 09:28.06 | Dark_Shikari | I would probably write 5x less code. |
| 09:28.10 | Dark_Shikari | and produce far less useful output |
| 09:28.12 | Catfish_Man | oh. You're talking about incremental rebuilds? |
| 09:28.13 | p_l | Dark_Shikari: That was for _full_ recompile |
| 09:28.17 | Catfish_Man | yeah, I meant clean builds |
| 09:28.21 | Dark_Shikari | that's why I work on a project that takes 5 seconds for a full compile |
| 09:28.24 | p_l | make clean; make all |
| 09:28.25 | Dark_Shikari | and 2 seconds for a recompile |
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| 09:28.39 | andguent | dont you see how pointless this discussion is? do some real work FTW |
| 09:29.00 | Dark_Shikari | I'm doing work =p |
| 09:29.06 | Catfish_Man | as am I :) |
| 09:29.10 | p_l | andguent: Plan9 and not butting in on GCC bashing? Come on... :P |
| 09:29.13 | Catfish_Man | just fixed (hopefully) a nasty race condition |
| 09:29.19 | sanooj | pointless? it's like asking about the weather in geek. ;) |
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| 09:29.27 | kblin | andguent: compiling... |
| 09:29.37 | Dark_Shikari | bashing gcc is like going to a retirement home and basing one of the old men for not being able to play soccer well |
| 09:29.43 | Dark_Shikari | *bashing |
| 09:29.49 | andguent | kencc FTW :P |
| 09:29.52 | andguent | now better? ;) |
| 09:29.53 | Dark_Shikari | basing MSVC is like finding the cripple who can't get out of bed and making fun of him |
| 09:29.56 | p_l | andguent: xD |
| 09:30.01 | Dark_Shikari | in fact, bashing compilers as a whole falls into that category... ;) |
| 09:30.15 | kblin | andguent: http://xkcd.com/303/ |
| 09:30.17 | p_l | Dark_Shikari: And using LLVM to bash them is like dropping a WMD on cripple house ;-) |
| 09:30.27 | LawnGnome | Hey, if we're going to start bashing compilers, someone let me know when I start laying into Borland C++. |
| 09:30.29 | thebolt | Dark_Shikari: §be happy you have any compiler.. |
| 09:30.32 | Dark_Shikari | too bad LLVM is still totally useless |
| 09:30.39 | Dark_Shikari | despite the hype |
| 09:30.43 | Catfish_Man | Dark_Shikari: clang builds my codebase fine ;) |
| 09:30.44 | thebolt | i'm getting more and more used to platforms with no c compiler, in some cases not even assembler :P |
| 09:30.45 | Dark_Shikari | maybe in about 8 years it can beat gcc |
| 09:30.51 | Dark_Shikari | and then maybe in 200 years it won't suck |
| 09:31.00 | Dark_Shikari | Catfish_Man: it doesn't support inline asm, therefore it is useless |
| 09:31.01 | dwibd | slaps Dark_Shikari around a bit with a large trout |
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| 09:31.17 | p_l | Dark_Shikari: That's a stupid argument, you know? |
| 09:31.30 | Catfish_Man | Dark_Shikari: you sure on that? I thought some of that went in recently |
| 09:31.31 | sanooj | maybe if your WMD are well meaning daisies. |
| 09:31.33 | Dark_Shikari | No it isn't, one of the two codebases I work on has a couple tens of thousands of lines of inline asm |
| 09:31.41 | Dark_Shikari | How is it "stupid" to complain about being unable to compile it? |
| 09:31.45 | Catfish_Man | but then, that's one bit I don't pay attention to much ;) |
| 09:31.47 | Dark_Shikari | Sure, I can disable all of it, and it'll go 5x slower |
| 09:31.58 | Catfish_Man | there's one tiny bit of inline asm in adium, and that works fine (it's from a system header) |
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| 09:32.11 | Dark_Shikari | inline asm is always a nasty thing for compilers, even gcc |
| 09:32.20 | Dark_Shikari | gcc in the past has been terrible at dealing with hard constraints |
| 09:32.29 | Dark_Shikari | some versions actually fail to compile because their register allocator barfs |
| 09:32.53 | p_l | Dark_Shikari: if you want inline asm, LLVM is not what you want. I consider it simple to understand. Now, most apps don't need inline asm |
| 09:32.58 | andguent | if there's any reason against gcc then because you cannot trust it's generated code |
| 09:33.20 | p_l | And I had seen codebases get a 30% speedup from compilation through LLVM instead of GCC |
| 09:33.35 | thebolt | also, if you have that amount of inline asm.. i am doubting it gives you that much to have it inline compared to external fully-asm functions and link in the objects from an external assembler.. |
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| 09:33.51 | Dark_Shikari | p_l: "most apps don't need inline asm" is not an argument for "inline asm is not important" |
| 09:33.59 | Dark_Shikari | the latter doesn't logically follow |
| 09:34.09 | p_l | thebolt: inline asm is useful when you need to avoid funcall overhead. It's quite big in some cases |
| 09:34.09 | Dark_Shikari | because often, the apps that *do* need asm are quite important. |
| 09:34.12 | Dark_Shikari | For example, your video player. |
| 09:34.15 | sanooj | Dark_Shikari: inline asm is a pain indeed. the pain's much reduced if you extract the asm to be separate and use a real assembler. then you only need inline asm to reansfer control. |
| 09:34.23 | Dark_Shikari | No asm ---> You can't even watch HD MPEG-2 |
| 09:34.27 | thebolt | p_l: i know, but that usually does not result in n*10k-loc of inline asm ;) |
| 09:34.32 | Dark_Shikari | sanooj: indeed, that's why I use yasm for everything |
| 09:34.40 | Dark_Shikari | I only recently convinced the ffmpeg devs that this was a good idea ;) |
| 09:34.58 | Dark_Shikari | the only annoyance is writing macros to handle varying ABIs |
| 09:35.07 | Dark_Shikari | which can be summarized as "Windows 64-bit is obnoxious" |
| 09:35.11 | sanooj | Dark_Shikari: yeah. that's what I use inline asm for. |
| 09:35.21 | p_l | Dark_Shikari: If I had been better with C++, I'd be happy to help with inline asm support in LLVM. After all, I'm planning on compiling an OS with it :) |
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| 09:35.39 | Dark_Shikari | heh, I do look forward to a better compiler, but GCC is finally getting better as well |
| 09:35.45 | Dark_Shikari | someone *finally* fixed the stack allocator after all these years in 4.3 |
| 09:35.51 | Dark_Shikari | reducing stack usage by more than 2x in many functions |
| 09:36.14 | sanooj | Dark_Shikari: leave it to the compiler to deal with most of the ABI issues and just use inline asm to pass args to the external asm code. |
| 09:36.19 | Dark_Shikari | The vectorizer is still worse than useless though, a guy writing the MLP decoder in ffmpeg recently found that on x86_64, the vectorizer slowed down a critical function by over 120% |
| 09:36.23 | p_l | Dark_Shikari: I just don't have the balls to try writing a complete new target for GCC, as I'm not sure anyone kept the old one up to date (and I'm going to add some instructions to ISA) |
| 09:36.26 | Dark_Shikari | sanooj: that adds horrifically to call overhead :/ |
| 09:36.37 | aoszkar | !next |
| 09:36.38 | socinfo | "next" is Check to see if you're accepted by visiting organization home pages at http://tinyurl.com/orghome Accepted students will be added to the private student mailing list in the next few days and Google will ask for tax forms and proof of enrollment later. Meanwhile, start bonding with your community. |
| 09:36.45 | Dark_Shikari | it works if your asm functions are all functions that run for 1000s of clocks |
| 09:36.48 | Dark_Shikari | it doesn't work if they're mostly short |
| 09:36.54 | thebolt | p_l: hehe, i have been in that spot at many times.. lately been considering if a llvm backend is less scary :) |
| 09:37.03 | Dark_Shikari | fortunately though we have a nice macro system that handles everything automagically |
| 09:37.11 | p_l | thebolt: now imagine that MMIX doesn't have normal stack... |
| 09:37.13 | Dark_Shikari | abstraction between ABIs, mmx vs SSE, automatic handling of permutations of registers |
| 09:37.16 | Dark_Shikari | and all sorts of nice things |
| 09:37.19 | sanooj | really? |
| 09:37.21 | Dark_Shikari | automatic stack offset handling |
| 09:37.27 | Dark_Shikari | it's basically an entire asm language built in yasm macros |
| 09:37.35 | *** part/#gsoc Mkop (n=Mkop2@vpl070.wlan.library.upenn.edu) |
| 09:37.44 | thebolt | p_l: well, not totally uncommon |
| 09:37.48 | sanooj | hum. sounds like code I should read. |
| 09:38.01 | Dark_Shikari | common/x86/x86inc.asm in the x264 git tree |
| 09:38.09 | p_l | thebolt: it has register stack that has 64bit pointer... |
| 09:38.14 | Dark_Shikari | and x86util if you like a bunch of simple macros that are generally useful (e.g. SBUTTERFLY) |
| 09:38.28 | Dark_Shikari | we recently had a volunteer extend it to windows 64-bit so it now supports everything |
| 09:39.02 | p_l | as for playing with asm, GHC uses a perl script to rewrite assembly generated by GCC |
| 09:39.03 | Dark_Shikari | I still want to find the person who decided windows 64-bit would make xmmregs callee-saved and... cause great pain to them |
| 09:39.11 | sanooj | thanks for the pointer. I'll take a look. |
| 09:39.25 | Dark_Shikari | p_l: that sounds like a nice trick, someone should write it for ARM--gcc introduces enormous numbers of redundant moves that could basically be eliminated by regex |
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| 09:39.40 | p_l | Dark_Shikari: they mostly rewrite all funcalls |
| 09:39.50 | Dark_Shikari | e.g. something like add r0, r0, r1 , mov r3, r0 |
| 09:39.50 | araujo | early morning around |
| 09:40.29 | thebolt | Dark_Shikari: any non-stupid peep-hole optimizer should fix that.. |
| 09:40.38 | Dark_Shikari | thebolt: gcc's utterly fails on arm |
| 09:40.40 | thebolt | (writing the rule for that is trivial) |
| 09:40.41 | p_l | Dark_Shikari: stuff like removing function prologues etc |
| 09:40.55 | thebolt | Dark_Shikari: might be some ARM architecture limit? (in some version of ARM) |
| 09:41.00 | Dark_Shikari | no, it's just gcc being dumb |
| 09:41.04 | Dark_Shikari | one of our SOC projects is adding ARM support+asm in x264 |
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| 09:41.18 | Dark_Shikari | our student found that gcc mistakenly unrolled a loop in a critical C DSP function, halving its speed |
| 09:41.30 | Dark_Shikari | that is, -O3 was twice as slow as -O2 on that function |
| 09:41.38 | kblin | hehe |
| 09:41.49 | Dark_Shikari | also, gcc doesn't correctly support stack alignment on arm |
| 09:41.55 | Dark_Shikari | on x86 it defaults to 16 bytes, on arm it doesn't work with more than 8 |
| 09:41.57 | sanooj | Dark_Shikari: that picgetgot stuff works on windows as well? |
| 09:42.03 | p_l | heh, I switched to compiling stuff mostly with -Os :) |
| 09:42.08 | Dark_Shikari | sanooj: we threw out picgetgot/picpush a while ago |
| 09:42.10 | kblin | if I wasn't aware of the fact that running gentoo on ARM was probably a bad idea, I'd be now :) |
| 09:42.23 | Dark_Shikari | that is, we tossed out 32-bit PIC because we thought it was useless and very annoying to maintain |
| 09:42.28 | Dark_Shikari | we currently only support 64-bit PIC |
| 09:42.31 | Dark_Shikari | But yes, I think it worked on Windows. |
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| 09:43.11 | Dark_Shikari | the real annoyance was dealing with functions that needed all 7 registers... but you needed to save ebx with pic on |
| 09:43.15 | Dark_Shikari | ... but you couldn't uglify the code |
| 09:43.20 | sanooj | heh |
| 09:43.22 | Dark_Shikari | ... and you couldn't slow down non-pic targets |
| 09:43.55 | Dark_Shikari | so eventually we gave up, realizing that nobody actually needs pic on 32-bit =p |
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| 09:44.26 | p_l | Dark_Shikari: Well, my goals don't make GCC best suited. I can simply add some inline asm support myself in LLVM for those few elements I might need it :) |
| 09:45.00 | thebolt | yea, trying to add backends in gcc is scary.. :P |
| 09:45.17 | thebolt | or even understand how to do it is scary :P |
| 09:45.19 | Dark_Shikari | also, someone needs to make a compiler that doesn't fail at write-combining |
| 09:45.28 | p_l | and I've got 256 registers to play with :3 |
| 09:45.30 | sanooj | the permute/swap stuff is pretty nice. |
| 09:45.30 | Dark_Shikari | neither ICC nor gcc will vectorize the following: |
| 09:45.49 | Dark_Shikari | 1) you have some struct with an array aligned to 16-byte say s->array[] |
| 09:45.55 | Dark_Shikari | and s->array2 |
| 09:45.59 | Dark_Shikari | both are uint64_t |
| 09:46.12 | Dark_Shikari | s->array[0] = s->array2[0]; s->array[1] = s->array2[1]; |
| 09:46.16 | Dark_Shikari | no compiler I have ever seen will vectorize this. |
| 09:46.36 | thebolt | hm.. the only compiler i've seen taht does good vectorization is vectorc |
| 09:46.40 | Dark_Shikari | vectorc? |
| 09:46.56 | Dark_Shikari | sanooj: yeah, I can't imagine writing a DCT or something without it now |
| 09:46.58 | p_l | what about Sun's? I recall some autoparallelization options |
| 09:47.02 | Dark_Shikari | given that I'd have to manually track the output of all the butterflies in my head |
| 09:47.08 | thebolt | compiler by Codeplay |
| 09:47.16 | Dark_Shikari | you can just do SWAP reg1, reg2, which is equivalent to xchng |
| 09:47.19 | Dark_Shikari | except emits no instruction |
| 09:47.22 | Dark_Shikari | and works for simd regs |
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| 09:47.43 | Dark_Shikari | I've never found any of the autovectorization stuff to work, I tested ICC on x264 a while back |
| 09:47.49 | Dark_Shikari | it was a bit faster overall, but it only vectorized one single DSP function |
| 09:47.55 | Dark_Shikari | and did so really badly |
| 09:49.52 | Dark_Shikari | sanooj: also, if you want to be really scared, see our Hadamard transform (SATD) functions... let's just say our GSOC student made them "interesting". |
| 09:50.56 | sanooj | the x86util.asm? |
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| 09:51.24 | Dark_Shikari | pixel-a.asm |
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| 09:52.01 | Dark_Shikari | he does 4x4/8x8 frequency transforms with no transpose, minimal unpacking, and he uses the "max" instruction a lot. |
| 09:52.57 | sanooj | there's no file with 'pixel' in the ffmpeg git repo? |
| 09:53.03 | Dark_Shikari | x264 |
| 09:53.06 | sanooj | doh. |
| 09:53.12 | Dark_Shikari | ffmpeg borrows an old version of our x86inc/util |
| 09:53.17 | Dark_Shikari | I should probably update it sometime |
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| 09:54.52 | p_l | afk |
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| 09:55.05 | araujo | making pizza at 4am |
| 09:55.41 | sanooj | reading this would take all day at least. sorry Dark_Shikari, but I'll need to pick this up later. :) |
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| 09:55.58 | sanooj | thanks for the pointer tho. it looks fascinating. |
| 09:56.31 | Dark_Shikari | indeed |
| 09:56.40 | Dark_Shikari | feel free to drop by our IRC any time if you're curious about how stuff works |
| 09:57.01 | Dark_Shikari | Also, I'm pretty sure we have the fastest SATD in the world. But if we don't, show us the better one so we can steal ideas... =p |
| 09:57.02 | sanooj | thanks, might do that when I get around to it. :) |
| 09:57.17 | sanooj | (the dropping by.. :)) |
| 09:57.36 | Dark_Shikari | the challenge for our soc student this year is porting the logic to arm |
| 09:58.02 | sanooj | just the pixel-a.asm stuff or the entire x86/ stuff? |
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| 09:58.08 | Dark_Shikari | entire thing |
| 09:58.12 | sanooj | good lord. |
| 09:58.13 | Dark_Shikari | obviously not all functions are as critical |
| 09:58.16 | Dark_Shikari | he won't do it all |
| 09:58.24 | Dark_Shikari | we pretty much have four tiers of functions |
| 09:58.47 | Dark_Shikari | Absolutely critical, pretty important, mildly important, and nearly-useless crap that's there because writing asm is fun |
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| 09:59.35 | Dark_Shikari | he's already written most of the first tier, since that consists of... like four functions =p |
| 10:00.46 | sanooj | do you have a cgit / gitweb interface? |
| 10:01.03 | Dark_Shikari | http://git.videolan.org/?p=x264.git;a=summary |
| 10:01.43 | Dark_Shikari | the main project of last year's soc student is http://git.videolan.org/?p=x264.git;a=commitdiff;h=2dca5f5413051a26cbba4e20f3c77ff69b694ba3 |
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| 10:01.58 | Dark_Shikari | He didn't actually do that over the summer; it was actually part of his thesis project after the summer |
| 10:02.10 | sanooj | thanks. want to show it around. |
| 10:02.41 | Dark_Shikari | He actually managed to get paid for that patch |
| 10:02.49 | Dark_Shikari | by a company that was rather interested in things being 15% faster. |
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| 10:05.29 | matek | what for is planet-soc? |
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| 10:10.38 | ajuonline | matek: one point of the GSoC community. Students and Mentors. |
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| 10:10.59 | ajuonline | matek: blogs/discussions. open for all to see. |
| 10:11.10 | matek | thanks;) |
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| 10:19.54 | Dark_Shikari | someone yell at google, gmail's down again :> |
| 10:20.18 | Mek | and you think yelling will help in any way? |
| 10:20.26 | Dark_Shikari | I know, I know ;) |
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| 10:21.46 | kashthealien | !next |
| 10:21.46 | socinfo | "next" is Check to see if you're accepted by visiting organization home pages at http://tinyurl.com/orghome Accepted students will be added to the private student mailing list in the next few days and Google will ask for tax forms and proof of enrollment later. Meanwhile, start bonding with your community. |
| 10:22.17 | Vivek | Has the dates for applying ended ? |
| 10:22.44 | straydawg | Vivek: also for getting accepted, yes |
| 10:22.57 | Vivek | I was afk for a while because of my marriage, so just wanted to know. |
| 10:23.06 | straydawg | congrats on getting married |
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| 10:23.20 | Vivek | straydawg: So I cannot apply now right ? |
| 10:23.30 | Vivek | straydawg: Thanks. |
| 10:23.30 | straydawg | nope |
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| 10:24.53 | Dark_Shikari | yes, they ended long ago =p |
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| 10:42.39 | skiquel | Howdy all. |
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| 11:00.38 | p_l | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht96HJ01SE4&fmt=22 <--- for those who are sulky after not getting in GSoC, and for all those that got in :) |
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| 11:12.01 | holger_ | p_l: hmm. a white ti99/4a? round here, those were silver/black. |
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| 11:14.30 | p_l | holger_: Where I lived, I have never seen any TI computer :) |
| 11:17.20 | holger_ | p_l: no wonder. those haven't been around for long. and most people didn't keep them because they were almost useless compared to the apples, ataris and c64s |
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| 11:18.01 | p_l | heh, Atari 8bits were awesome <--- spent a lot of time reading old 65XE manuals |
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| 11:38.48 | z4chh | got my email! |
| 11:39.07 | z4chh | thanks google folks :D |
| 11:40.21 | ajuonline | z4chh: thank thy organisations :) as well. |
| 11:40.23 | ajuonline | congratulates |
| 11:40.30 | ajuonline | congratulations |
| 11:40.38 | jasebo | p_l: well, if it wasn't a TRS-80, it wasn't worth having |
| 11:42.25 | z4chh | yes, i also thank all the orgs for their time and patience provided to give us student this opportunity :) |
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| 11:42.46 | skiquel | z4chh: welcome. |
| 11:43.19 | jasebo | :-) |
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| 12:00.32 | sabotage1 | !next |
| 12:00.32 | socinfo | "next" is Check to see if you're accepted by visiting organization home pages at http://tinyurl.com/orghome Accepted students will be added to the private student mailing list in the next few days and Google will ask for tax forms and proof of enrollment later. Meanwhile, start bonding with your community. |
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| 12:15.31 | riot | is this really all? |
| 12:15.41 | p_l | riot: what is? |
| 12:15.49 | riot | seems to me like very few students got accepted this year. |
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| 12:16.11 | gpolo_ | 1000 ? |
| 12:16.14 | p_l | riot: you can do the popular thing and blame everything on financial crisis ;-) |
| 12:16.28 | riot | gpolo_: really? |
| 12:16.35 | gpolo_ | yes |
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| 12:16.44 | riot | p_l: what financial crisis? |
| 12:17.06 | p_l | riot: the one in the news, it became a nice catch phrase ;-) |
| 12:17.46 | riot | p_l: you're reading the wrong news |
| 12:18.05 | riot | gpolo_: thats sad, because my project didn't get in there. |
| 12:18.21 | p_l | riot: maybe. But I'm mad enough at what happens that I stopped caring... |
| 12:19.00 | riot | i'm quite mad now, too |
| 12:19.08 | ojwb | 1125 last year, 1000 this year - it's not so different |
| 12:19.12 | riot | because i'm reading WHAT actually got accepted |
| 12:19.30 | p_l | *loves* ideas like paying to get allowed to work |
| 12:19.57 | riot | p_l: would you pay for my project? |
| 12:20.26 | p_l | riot: I'm wondering how I will pay for work permit right now ;-) |
| 12:20.43 | riot | i am now officially looking for a sponsor again. Could even generate revenues. |
| 12:20.55 | scorche | riot: have you talked to the orgs you applied to to see what you might be able to do better for next year/why you might not have been accepted this year? |
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| 12:21.25 | riot | scorche: i'm just reviewing all the stuff right now. |
| 12:21.34 | thebolt | hi mdc_mobile |
| 12:21.43 | sanooj | riot: what was your project? |
| 12:21.54 | riot | scorche: funny thing is: i got accepted last year for a relatively uninteresting project with a relatively bad proposal. |
| 12:22.28 | riot | scorche: i just had a mentor in town and was going to the same parties as he did. Pfft. |
| 12:22.45 | scorche | riot: well, it is likely that others might not see things the same way you do....go ask the orgs and see if you can gather their thoughts |
| 12:22.49 | thebolt | riot: well, at least in the projects i have contact with the overall proposal quality went up alot this year, making competition alot harder |
| 12:22.51 | riot | sanooj: Chaoss. The ultimate finger-controlled controller for everything. |
| 12:23.33 | sanooj | has enough rsi as it is |
| 12:23.49 | mdc_mobile | hi thebolt :) |
| 12:23.52 | riot | sanooj: yeah, i think it can even improve that :) |
| 12:24.31 | sanooj | now make me something small that will let me get out and program with voice/sound and I'm interested. :) |
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| 12:24.54 | riot | scorche: likely? Haha, you're making fun? I know guys that would LOVE to kill my project. Guys who earn shitloads of money with the (almost) the same stuff (in bad closed source variant) |
| 12:25.09 | riot | -the |
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| 12:25.57 | scorche | i am not "making fun"...and it would be silly that everyone thinks X project would be an awesome project... |
| 12:26.08 | riot | sanooj: it can be small, you will have to use some physical entity on a touchscreen to "program". But you can always tell someone what motion to enter :) |
| 12:26.14 | scorche | s/silly/silly to think that |
| 12:27.16 | riot | hmm. well, i think i'll comercialize the project and make money out of it, too. That was the open (and already planned) alternative of doing it the gsoc-way. |
| 12:27.27 | riot | anybody interested in investing? |
| 12:27.50 | scorche | this isnt a channel to seek investment in... |
| 12:28.16 | carldani | unless someone is offering investment of time ;-) |
| 12:28.24 | pmurias | is having a blog mandatory during GSoC? or is that a abandoned requirement |
| 12:28.33 | dho | pmurias: depends on the org |
| 12:28.36 | scorche | pmurias: ask your org |
| 12:28.37 | riot | scorche: not? but google is doing exactly that. |
| 12:28.37 | carldani | pmurias: was it ever a requirement? |
| 12:28.50 | scorche | riot: so? |
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| 12:29.28 | dho | points out that this is GOOGLE summer of code, not riot's summer of finding investors |
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| 12:29.39 | dho | (not to be a dick, but it is obvious) |
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| 12:30.20 | riot | ;) so i'll just shut up and go to a nice investor-filled #channel. |
| 12:30.32 | scorche | sure |
| 12:30.34 | ojwb | google aren't seeking investment by anyone here |
| 12:30.40 | ojwb | at least not of cash, and not in google |
| 12:31.10 | p_l | hehe |
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| 12:32.00 | riot | ojwb: you got it wrong. its the other way round. |
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| 12:32.34 | ojwb | google are seeking investment here? |
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| 14:01.27 | sandrejev | hi, I see it's dead silent here :} |
| 14:01.42 | sandrejev | can I have a legal question answered? |
| 14:01.52 | LaurieJ | we're all so thrilled with our student allocations that we're off doing press releases and partying :) |
| 14:02.00 | sandrejev | :) |
| 14:02.02 | gitte | LaurieJ: Heh. |
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| 14:02.20 | gitte | LaurieJ: I am just a bit down because I got to write all the letters to those who were unlucky. |
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| 14:02.29 | gitte | LaurieJ: (of two orgs only, of course.) |
| 14:02.54 | sandrejev | What is my legal relation with google |
| 14:02.57 | LaurieJ | gitte: I haven't written all mine yet :/ |
| 14:02.59 | gitte | sandrejev: I do not think anybody here is a lawyer, but insofar as you do not hold anyone liable, yes, I think you can get it answered... |
| 14:03.01 | sandrejev | is it's a contract? |
| 14:03.09 | sandrejev | will I get something as proof |
| 14:03.14 | sandrejev | I have a problem |
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| 14:03.35 | sandrejev | I'm currently employed, but would like to take a long vacation for summer |
| 14:04.02 | ajuonline | sandrejev: "Contract Worker" |
| 14:04.06 | MatthewWilkes | sandrejev: You'd be a google contractor, iirc, but nothing told to you on here would be legal advice |
| 14:04.07 | sandrejev | I need to submit a proposal with explanation |
| 14:04.12 | gitte | sandrejev: did you talk to the GSoC team about it? Does your org know? |
| 14:04.20 | sandrejev | MatthewWilkes |
| 14:04.35 | sandrejev | who can give a real legal advice? |
| 14:04.44 | gitte | sandrejev: only lawyers. |
| 14:04.46 | scorche | a paid lawyer |
| 14:04.48 | MatthewWilkes | sandrejev: A lawyer that you hire |
| 14:04.50 | sandrejev | =] |
| 14:04.57 | sandrejev | not worth it probably |
| 14:05.13 | ajuonline | but surely better than asking here :) |
| 14:05.17 | sandrejev | gitte, they know that I was working |
| 14:05.23 | sandrejev | employed |
| 14:05.29 | sandrejev | but I promised to leave |
| 14:05.34 | sandrejev | and will leave |
| 14:05.43 | sandrejev | but I want to do it the right way |
| 14:06.26 | sandrejev | If I'm a contractor will Google send me a contract then? |
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| 14:07.09 | Mek | no, you won't get anything upfront |
| 14:07.17 | Mek | and I don't think you even qualify as a contractor |
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| 14:08.00 | devilsadvocate_ | sandrejev: you can ask lh, she can have a letter sent (i think), but that wont really be a 'contract' |
| 14:08.19 | ojwb | sandrejev: I'd explain what GSoC is, rather than try to explain what your technical employment status will be |
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| 14:08.38 | sandrejev | =] |
| 14:08.42 | sandrejev | ojwb |
| 14:08.46 | sandrejev | I tried that |
| 14:08.55 | sandrejev | seems to be harder when writing a proposal |
| 14:09.21 | sandrejev | anyway, thanks guys, I learned enough for round two |
| 14:09.22 | scorche | the FAQ seems to do it nicely |
| 14:09.29 | MatthewWilkes | sandrejev: So, are you working as a part-time job, or as a year in industry? |
| 14:09.31 | ojwb | I think the "contract" is the stuff you agreed to when you signed up |
| 14:09.47 | sandrejev | full time |
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| 14:10.08 | MatthewWilkes | sandrejev: Is it part of your university course? |
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| 14:10.35 | sandrejev | no |
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| 14:10.55 | sandrejev | it's not that special in this country to work and study the same time |
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| 14:11.33 | MatthewWilkes | sandrejev: Here either. I'm just trying to understand the circumstances. So you're looking for a few months off work without quitting? |
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| 14:12.12 | sandrejev | I'm willing to take a unpayed vacation |
| 14:12.41 | sandrejev | Just haven't enough understanding of my status to explain this to my boss |
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| 14:14.41 | spectie | skiquel, yo |
| 14:14.51 | spectie | skiquel, the student project links aren't working right? |
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| 14:16.06 | skiquel | spectie: let me see |
| 14:16.12 | MatthewWilkes | sandrejev: Google are giving you a stipend to contribute to open source. You're not working for google, they're just helping fund you and almost 1000 other people to get involved in an organisation. |
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| 14:16.58 | danderson | actually, you are employed by google. |
| 14:17.01 | danderson | As a contractor |
| 14:17.10 | danderson | but working for another org |
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| 14:17.19 | ojwb | danderson: we're aware of that, but this is "how to explain it to his boss" |
| 14:17.35 | danderson | well, what exactly is the problem? |
| 14:17.37 | sandrejev | I think this deserves to be in FAQ |
| 14:17.40 | ojwb | we aren't sure... |
| 14:17.47 | lut4rp | aye, it should. |
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| 14:18.30 | lut4rp | we had previously discussed what one would write in his/her CV about GSoC |
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| 14:19.56 | skiquel | spectie: what do you mean about the links? |
| 14:20.09 | spectie | skiquel, snippyhollow is the student i'm working with |
| 14:20.15 | skiquel | ohhh |
| 14:20.15 | spectie | i'm not able to make that known through the interface |
| 14:20.20 | skiquel | hm |
| 14:20.25 | skiquel | well what i can do is |
| 14:20.30 | skiquel | give mentors that permission |
| 14:20.31 | skiquel | moment. |
| 14:20.47 | spectie | i'm an admin too |
| 14:20.48 | spectie | for our org |
| 14:20.51 | spectie | but i registered as mentor |
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| 14:21.49 | skiquel | spectie: can you try now? |
| 14:21.57 | spectie | yep |
| 14:22.24 | spectie | nope |
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| 14:22.30 | spectie | none of our projects show up |
| 14:22.37 | spectie | Student Project: |
| 14:22.39 | spectie | in this field |
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| 14:23.07 | *** join/#gsoc sourcemorph (n=surge@210.212.160.101) |
| 14:23.12 | *** join/#gsoc asmeurer (n=aaronmeu@dhcp-baca-10.resnet.nmt.edu) |
| 14:23.21 | eliel | Hello, I would like to know if a paper signed by my university telling that i am a regular student is enough, or you need another thing to proof that i am a student? |
| 14:24.24 | *** join/#gsoc ritz (n=ritesh@61.17.218.210) |
| 14:24.27 | bobbens | when they need it they'll ask for it |
| 14:24.28 | alanp | do you have to send in proof? |
| 14:24.49 | bobbens | last year I faxed my registration form |
| 14:25.08 | bobbens | this year I'll do the same :~) |
| 14:25.11 | *** join/#gsoc allisterb_ (n=allister@cuscon124084.tstt.net.tt) |
| 14:25.16 | aghisla | eliel, alanp: there will be very detailed info when needed |
| 14:25.21 | aghisla | do not worry :) |
| 14:25.27 | eliel | ok, thanks! |
| 14:25.49 | summatusmentis | hello all |
| 14:25.56 | lut4rp | hello summatusmentis |
| 14:26.03 | aghisla | hello summatusmentis |
| 14:26.03 | summatusmentis | how're you? |
| 14:26.20 | summatusmentis | o/ aghisla |
| 14:26.40 | *** join/#gsoc disismt (n=disismt@124.124.233.5) |
| 14:26.44 | alanp | Has anybody been added to the mailing list already? |
| 14:26.50 | *** join/#gsoc venkat111 (n=venkat@210.212.160.101) |
| 14:26.57 | *** join/#gsoc tripwyre (n=sathya@117.193.160.249) |
| 14:27.01 | lut4rp | nope, you'll get a mail when you do |
| 14:27.14 | lut4rp | chill out, everything's gonna be phun! |
| 14:27.16 | *** join/#gsoc Michelangelo (n=mides@193.205.162.68) |
| 14:27.25 | summatusmentis | ugh, mailing list |
| 14:27.34 | summatusmentis | it's gonna be so enormous |
| 14:27.51 | bobbens | are they just using the old one? |
| 14:27.58 | kblin | yeah. you'll notice you're on the student list if you open your mailbox and there's a 1000 new mails in your inbox |
| 14:28.13 | *** join/#gsoc cooldude11 (i=d2d43dfb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-19b6c0656d570f2c) |
| 14:28.13 | alanp | haha |
| 14:28.19 | summatusmentis | goes to mess with filters now |
| 14:28.21 | alanp | is antsy |
| 14:28.29 | *** join/#gsoc sourcemorph (n=surge@210.212.160.101) |
| 14:28.44 | aghisla | haha |
| 14:30.07 | ajuonline | ^5's summatusmentis |
| 14:30.10 | ajuonline | !india |
| 14:30.11 | socinfo | "india" is GSoC Indian Community on IRC ##gsoc-india Mailing List: http://groups.google.com/group/gsoc-india?hl=en And help populate the Indian Students List/Profiles here: http://tinyurl.com/dhbud9 |
| 14:30.14 | ajuonline | :P |
| 14:30.19 | summatusmentis | hi ajuonline |
| 14:30.35 | ajuonline | summatusmentis: keep pimping that for me ;) |
| 14:30.45 | summatusmentis | I'm not from india |
| 14:30.50 | ajuonline | XD |
| 14:30.57 | summatusmentis | won't I just look like a poseur if I do that? |
| 14:31.05 | ajuonline | lol |
| 14:31.34 | ajuonline | so openAFS it is :P |
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| 14:32.00 | summatusmentis | heh, you know it |
| 14:32.16 | ajuonline | you blag'ed about it |
| 14:32.22 | DonP | !next |
| 14:32.22 | socinfo | "next" is Check to see if you're accepted by visiting organization home pages at http://tinyurl.com/orghome Accepted students will be added to the private student mailing list in the next few days and Google will ask for tax forms and proof of enrollment later. Meanwhile, start bonding with your community. |
| 14:32.38 | aghisla | and have fun :) |
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| 14:32.55 | *** part/#gsoc goer (n=Andrii@ll-210.104.64.62.kh.sovam.net.ua) |
| 14:33.12 | dberkholz | sugree: yes? i'm donnie. were you looking for another one? |
| 14:33.14 | alanp | !canada |
| 14:33.14 | socinfo | Error: "canada" is not a valid command. |
| 14:33.30 | *** join/#gsoc Souvik (i=dce189f4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f7c751d111964ce4) |
| 14:34.02 | *** join/#gsoc jgay (n=jgay@pool-96-233-27-213.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 14:34.36 | disismt | !next |
| 14:34.36 | socinfo | "next" is Check to see if you're accepted by visiting organization home pages at http://tinyurl.com/orghome Accepted students will be added to the private student mailing list in the next few days and Google will ask for tax forms and proof of enrollment later. Meanwhile, start bonding with your community. |
| 14:34.55 | *** join/#gsoc porter1 (n=porrter1@156.26.172.53) |
| 14:34.58 | disismt | Hey, what's Create --> students project for? |
| 14:36.18 | Souvik | k I need some help here ... I'm from India.. n I have no clue how to go about the tax forms ... |
| 14:36.30 | ajuonline | Souvik: ##gsoc-india |
| 14:36.38 | Mek | and don't worry about it just yet |
| 14:36.44 | *** join/#gsoc bijolianabhi (n=Abhinav@117.199.118.36) |
| 14:36.47 | ajuonline | Souvik: you need patience. no need to worry right now. |
| 14:37.11 | runasand | disismt: you mean on planet soc? |
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| 14:37.38 | ajuonline | Souvik: the tax form that google sends, you just need to sign it and send. its one page document, just sign it :P |
| 14:37.49 | ajuonline | at least, this was something last year |
| 14:38.12 | disismt | ajuonline, I have a question, these tax forms will be available online to print? |
| 14:38.27 | *** join/#gsoc The_Code (n=jweber@opensuse/member/japa83) |
| 14:38.39 | ajuonline | disismt: on the students mailing list. in the files section, yes. it was a PDF last time :) |
| 14:38.54 | disismt | runasand, http://socghop.appspot.com/student/list_projects/google/gsoc2009 |
| 14:39.16 | Souvik | ajuonline: well no prob with the patience part ... was just wondering if it wud deal with government stuff which mite take a lotta time |
| 14:39.20 | Souvik | ajuonline: LOL ! is dat it ?? |
| 14:39.20 | Souvik | ajuonline: Seriously .. dats a lotta relief ... I dunt even have a PAN card :P |
| 14:39.50 | disismt | ajuonline, tell me, how much would I get after tax cuts? |
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| 14:40.00 | Souvik | ajuonline: So in a nut shell ... "I should not worry for the tax forms , being a non US resident" right ? |
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| 14:40.08 | disismt | ajuonline, in rupees |
| 14:40.14 | ajuonline | disismt: depends on your country rules and regulataions. You should ask your accountant. |
| 14:40.18 | ajuonline | disismt: are you from india as well? |
| 14:40.21 | *** join/#gsoc pkaddi (n=pkaddi@59.96.206.68) |
| 14:40.22 | lcuk | gsoc on slashdot http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/21/1352249 |
| 14:40.35 | disismt | ajuonline, yes from India |
| 14:40.37 | Souvik | disismt: Nice qs :P |
| 14:40.48 | disismt | Souvik, :P |
| 14:40.50 | ajuonline | Souvik: wrong. Google does not need to worry about your tax issues if you are a non US resident. |
| 14:41.03 | ajuonline | that is why they ask you, to sign that Tax form :D |
| 14:41.21 | disismt | ajuonline, so we get the whole $4500 uncut? |
| 14:41.38 | ajuonline | disismt: dude, there is an income limit in India. after which you need to pay taxes. |
| 14:41.45 | ajuonline | disismt: ask your dad :D |
| 14:41.57 | ajuonline | and you need to wrorry about it next year. before march 2010. |
| 14:42.04 | disismt | ajuonline, ok |
| 14:42.07 | ajuonline | when you need to file taxes or stuff :) |
| 14:42.19 | lut4rp | disismt, you don't need to pay taxes in India for the first year of income. |
| 14:42.32 | disismt | lut4rp, OMG really :DDDD??? |
| 14:42.37 | lut4rp | disismt, err, yeah :) |
| 14:42.44 | ajuonline | disismt: slab based tax information for India is available. but, you should get a professional advise on this. |
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| 14:42.45 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o DannyB] by ChanServ |
| 14:42.50 | lut4rp | unfortunately for some of us, that first year is already gone :/ |
| 14:42.56 | ajuonline | disismt: not from some random n00b :P |
| 14:43.08 | lut4rp | ajuonline, bah, go write code. |
| 14:43.10 | summatusmentis | I just paid over $500 for taxes last year :( |
| 14:43.12 | sugree | dberkholz: that's you i was looking for. |
| 14:43.12 | ajuonline | disismt: best ask your dad |
| 14:43.19 | ajuonline | lut4rp: mind your own business? |
| 14:43.21 | disismt | ajuonline, one more thing, we get checks right? |
| 14:43.24 | summatusmentis | no |
| 14:43.26 | devilsadvocate_ | lut4rp: seriously? |
| 14:43.29 | ajuonline | disismt: no. last time, we got Card. |
| 14:43.34 | lut4rp | devilsadvocate_, yes. |
| 14:43.35 | disismt | ajuonline, card means? |
| 14:43.38 | devilsadvocate_ | lut4rp: no tax for first year of income? |
| 14:43.40 | ajuonline | disismt: ATM card to make it simpler :) |
| 14:43.45 | sugree | dberkholz: skiquel approved you already. please check your account. not sure about your real role. |
| 14:43.52 | summatusmentis | it's not quite an ATM card |
| 14:43.52 | ajuonline | disismt: go to any bank and take out :D |
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| 14:44.05 | ajuonline | summatusmentis: to make it simpler* i said |
| 14:44.19 | ajuonline | disismt: its a Credit Card more accurately? |
| 14:44.20 | summatusmentis | ajuonline: psh, simplicity |
| 14:44.34 | jasebo | sounds like a debit card |
| 14:44.37 | dberkholz | sugree: "Sorry, dberkholz@gentoo.org is not recognized as a user name or an e-mail address." |
| 14:44.37 | ajuonline | summatusmentis: because most of us, in India, would just do that :D |
| 14:44.37 | summatusmentis | it's a "corporate account" card, most accurately |
| 14:44.44 | ajuonline | jasebo: pre-filled Credit Card. |
| 14:44.51 | disismt | ajuonline, WOW. Is there any way to get it transfered from bank to bank without hassles of check or card? I am a n00b regarding banks :( |
| 14:44.52 | ajuonline | jasebo: yeah what summatusmentis said. |
| 14:44.56 | lut4rp | ajuonline, i will if you stop publicly pissing people :) |
| 14:44.57 | ajuonline | Coporate Payment/Gift Card |
| 14:45.10 | ajuonline | disismt: no bank to bank transfers. Just ATM withdrawls. |
| 14:45.16 | dberkholz | sugree: that was on the password recovery screen, after "dberkholz" failed as a login |
| 14:45.22 | sugree | dberkholz: oh. let me check. wait a min. |
| 14:45.22 | summatusmentis | disismt: My bank did a cash advance on mine |
| 14:45.28 | ajuonline | lut4rp: i dont. i have got more important business to do. |
| 14:45.33 | aghisla | I thought google payed us in camels |
| 14:45.37 | aghisla | :P |
| 14:45.46 | disismt | ajuonline, I am asking because I don't really want the card sent to my hostel, the mails get easily misplaced there :( |
| 14:45.47 | ajuonline | aghisla: you can ask them to pay you in T-shirts. |
| 14:45.52 | aghisla | haha |
| 14:45.57 | scorche | children....play nice... |
| 14:45.59 | ajuonline | disismt: give your permanent address. your dads address. |
| 14:45.59 | aghisla | need a wider wardrobe, then |
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| 14:46.07 | jasebo | that's gonna be a whole lotta t-shirts |
| 14:46.10 | lut4rp | ajuonline, [20:12] ajuonline : disismt: not from some random n00b :P |
| 14:46.21 | lut4rp | this was not needed, was it? |
| 14:46.27 | *** join/#gsoc LvQi (n=lv@58.213.252.186) |
| 14:46.33 | ajuonline | lut4rp: that includes me. i never put your name. I am talking about a n00b who doesnt know about Taxes. |
| 14:46.38 | ajuonline | lut4rp: you need a life :) |
| 14:46.45 | skiquel | spectie: we can talk here too |
| 14:46.53 | disismt | ajuonline, that card, if someone gets hold of it, he can take out all the money ?? |
| 14:46.53 | spectie | ok |
| 14:46.56 | sugree | dberkholz: please try again. u: dberkholz |
| 14:47.01 | lut4rp | ajuonline, um, i have one. I'm not a bot. |
| 14:47.03 | *** join/#gsoc alunduil (n=alunduil@199.17.82.40) |
| 14:47.03 | lut4rp | :) |
| 14:47.12 | summatusmentis | disismt: there's a pin # associated with it |
| 14:47.13 | skiquel | sugree: are you familiar with locales in drupal? |
| 14:47.16 | ajuonline | someone kick/ban this lut4rp |
| 14:47.17 | ajuonline | :) |
| 14:47.22 | disismt | summatusmentis, which we get by mail? |
| 14:47.27 | skiquel | spectie is wondering if we could get them setup.. |
| 14:47.33 | summatusmentis | disismt: which you set up online after getting the card |
| 14:47.40 | disismt | summatusmentis, OK thanks |
| 14:47.45 | disismt | ajuonline, thanks for info |
| 14:47.46 | ojwb | last year the cards apparently just had a number on, but someone said they may have a name on this year |
| 14:47.49 | sugree | skiquel: sure. i'm thai. we need l10n |
| 14:47.49 | summatusmentis | disismt: sure thing. |
| 14:47.52 | scorche | ajuonline: lut4rp: or you 2 can drop it and/or /ignore each other |
| 14:47.59 | disismt | haha |
| 14:48.02 | lut4rp | :) |
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| 14:48.17 | ajuonline | scorche: i never took names :) |
| 14:48.27 | ajuonline | or for that matter, for what he is pointing out. |
| 14:48.36 | scorche | doesnt care |
| 14:48.40 | sugree | skiquel: l10n or i18n? anyway, i use both |
| 14:48.41 | lut4rp | neither |
| 14:48.45 | skiquel | sugree: we're interesting in having some localization support |
| 14:48.48 | skiquel | whatever is best? |
| 14:48.51 | skiquel | is that a good answer? |
| 14:48.58 | skiquel | I'm unfamiliar with the terms |
| 14:49.08 | lut4rp | wanders off to branch his code |
| 14:49.16 | sugree | skiquel: ok. l10n is very easy. just export from l10n server and simply import |
| 14:49.19 | spectie | http://drupal.org/project/Translations |
| 14:49.22 | spectie | http://drupal.org/project/ca |
| 14:49.26 | dberkholz | sugree: ok, waiting for a password to show up now ... the recovery box worked this time |
| 14:49.33 | disismt | Its *sooo* very hot in India now :( There's a heat wave going ! |
| 14:49.42 | ajuonline | disismt: right :P |
| 14:50.03 | skiquel | india temp: http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=india+temperature&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 |
| 14:50.15 | ajuonline | heh |
| 14:50.59 | sugree | tomorrow will be the hottest day in thailand. estimating 40c |
| 14:51.05 | disismt | ajuonline, I meant to ask you, When I do whois I get unaffiliated/ajuonline , how did you do that? |
| 14:51.06 | aghisla | :O |
| 14:51.08 | *** join/#gsoc wshimmy (n=enrightm@koln-4d0b186a.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 14:51.17 | lut4rp | skiquel, hey man |
| 14:51.44 | disismt | ajuonline, what is this unaffiliated thing? |
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| 14:52.00 | skiquel | lut4rp: hey! Congrats |
| 14:52.03 | ajuonline | disismt: ask for a nick cloak in #freenode |
| 14:52.08 | lut4rp | skiquel, thanks :) |
| 14:52.17 | disismt | ajuonline, ok |
| 14:52.19 | skiquel | lut4rp: i'm happy to have you helping #drupal |
| 14:52.23 | *** part/#gsoc mceier (n=mceier@chello089078175182.chello.pl) |
| 14:52.38 | lut4rp | skiquel, we're the team :) |
| 14:53.19 | *** join/#gsoc souvik (i=dce189f4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-191215bfb144e875) |
| 14:53.22 | skiquel | :) |
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| 14:53.38 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o webchick] by ChanServ |
| 14:53.45 | souvik | m bak ... net is dead slow here :( |
| 14:54.16 | thebolt | hi webchick |
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| 14:54.27 | kblin | hey thebolt |
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| 14:54.33 | thebolt | hi kblin :) |
| 14:55.08 | webchick | Howdy! :D |
| 14:55.15 | thebolt | how do you do? |
| 14:55.19 | thebolt | (both fo you;) |
| 14:55.26 | thebolt | s/fo/of/ |
| 14:55.40 | skiquel | sugree: do you think you could help a lil w/ the translation thing? |
| 14:55.42 | ajuonline | webchick: O HAIIII! :P |
| 14:55.49 | skiquel | hi webchick |
| 14:56.02 | sugree | skiquel: hmm. need translator :) |
| 14:56.25 | sugree | skiquel: and yes, i agree. translation will help alot for non-native english like me. |
| 14:56.42 | dberkholz | sugree: any idea how often the planet-soc server sends mail? haven't seen anything yet |
| 14:57.06 | sugree | skiquel: please check for dberkholz. i have no idea. |
| 14:57.11 | *** join/#gsoc david (n=david@gast196x.ugent.be) |
| 14:57.17 | sugree | dberkholz: please check in spam box... |
| 14:57.31 | skiquel | dberkholz: you wouldn't be getting an email, do you need a PW reset? |
| 14:57.41 | sugree | argh. irc is not twitter. |
| 14:57.42 | dberkholz | skiquel: yeah |
| 14:57.56 | dberkholz | it claimed further instructions had been sent to my email |
| 14:58.06 | skiquel | dberkholz: are you mentoring/student? |
| 14:58.16 | dberkholz | skiquel: admin |
| 14:58.37 | skiquel | check your PM |
| 14:58.42 | dberkholz | got it, thanks! |
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| 15:23.15 | DonP | !next |
| 15:23.15 | socinfo | "next" is Check to see if you're accepted by visiting organization home pages at http://tinyurl.com/orghome Accepted students will be added to the private student mailing list in the next few days and Google will ask for tax forms and proof of enrollment later. Meanwhile, start bonding with your community. |
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| 15:26.13 | mnm87 | hello |
| 15:26.39 | LaurieJ | mnm87: hello |
| 15:26.46 | *** part/#gsoc vipintm (n=vipintm@59.92.89.68) |
| 15:27.02 | mnm87 | Hi, LaurieJ |
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| 15:28.36 | mnm87 | may I know what you are working on @ LaurieJ |
| 15:28.49 | LaurieJ | mnm87: I'm admin for Sakai FOundation |
| 15:29.00 | mnm87 | cool! |
| 15:29.13 | mnm87 | i am new to this IRC business |
| 15:29.24 | mnm87 | so please spare me if I am breaking any rules |
| 15:29.26 | LaurieJ | mnm87: at the moment, announcing our wonderful new students to our community email lists |
| 15:29.34 | mnm87 | ohh... cool |
| 15:29.37 | mnm87 | :) |
| 15:31.47 | LaurieJ | what are you up to, mnm87? |
| 15:31.48 | mnm87 | What does Sakai Foundation work on?? @LaurieJ |
| 15:32.10 | LaurieJ | mnm87: Sakai is open source software to support research and teaching in universities around the world |
| 15:32.13 | mnm87 | I have been shortlisted to work on a project under ASCEND |
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| 15:32.29 | LaurieJ | mnm87: a "virtual learning and research environment" - which means something like groupware |
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| 15:33.07 | mnm87 | ok.... what kind of virtual environment?@LaurieJ |
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| 15:33.48 | LaurieJ | mnm87: not anything flash and 3D :) it lets users share files securely, offer teaching and tests online, collaborate on work together, and much more |
| 15:34.33 | mnm87 | is this something like Moodle @ LaurieJ |
| 15:34.58 | LaurieJ | mnm87: moodle would be similar, yes :) they are an alternative |
| 15:35.37 | mnm87 | does it work on Python @ LaurieJ? |
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| 15:35.58 | LaurieJ | mnm87: it's mostly Java actually |
| 15:36.30 | mnm87 | speaking about software to support research and training, I had an idea sometime back @ LaurieJ |
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| 15:37.01 | mnm87 | ohhh... Java. Thats! cool @ LaurieJ |
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| 15:40.28 | mnm87 | is it J2EE @ LaurieJ |
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| 15:53.22 | avtobiff | a tad calmer here today |
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| 16:00.20 | devvrat | http://xkcd.com/424/ |
| 16:00.43 | skiquel | hi SoCers |
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| 16:04.23 | nixbox | !next |
| 16:04.23 | socinfo | "next" is Check to see if you're accepted by visiting organization home pages at http://tinyurl.com/orghome Accepted students will be added to the private student mailing list in the next few days and Google will ask for tax forms and proof of enrollment later. Meanwhile, start bonding with your community. |
| 16:04.53 | nixbox | !faq |
| 16:04.53 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/faqs |
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| 16:05.41 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o Lennie] by ChanServ |
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| 16:08.04 | dberkholz | sugree: is there some kind of howto for planet soc to make myself show up as an org official for gentoo and add my blog etc? the "after registration" link didn't get me anywhere, since there is no student project |
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| 16:08.48 | sugree | dberkholz: ergh. we are trying to publish some howto and screencast |
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| 16:09.12 | oguz | hi, does anyone know the total number of organizations that applied? |
| 16:09.14 | sugree | dberkholz: ok. i will transfer ownership of gentoo to you now |
| 16:09.21 | oguz | or is this information public? |
| 16:09.30 | Landon | !numapps |
| 16:09.30 | socinfo | "numapps" is This year there are 395 mentoring org apps. That's less than the 500 last year, but there's also much less spam. There are 5900 proposals from 3500 students. |
| 16:09.32 | Landon | hm |
| 16:09.33 | Landon | dang |
| 16:09.35 | kblin | can I haz gentoo as well? ;) |
| 16:09.36 | Landon | !numorgs |
| 16:09.36 | socinfo | Error: "numorgs" is not a valid command. |
| 16:09.38 | dberkholz | sugree: sounds good |
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| 16:11.10 | oguz | Landon: thanks |
| 16:11.11 | dberkholz | kblin: sure, as soon as you start mentoring for us. =) |
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| 16:11.11 | kblin | dberkholz: damn, there's always something |
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| 16:11.40 | sugree | dberkholz: your gentoo. http://planet-soc.com/node/1642 |
| 16:12.30 | dberkholz | wow, my face is the face of gentoo. |
| 16:12.49 | kblin | yay |
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| 16:13.48 | dberkholz | sugree: ok, next step. how do i show up on http://planet-soc.com/search/results/field_soc_status%3A%22Organization%20official%22 and get all that profile info set up for me? =) |
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| 16:16.40 | sugree | dberkholz: and you are also mentor? |
| 16:16.56 | dberkholz | sugree: nope, not this year |
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| 16:18.15 | sugree | dberkholz: your full name is donnie berkholz? |
| 16:18.25 | dberkholz | sugree: yep |
| 16:18.47 | sugree | dberkholz: and your org is gentoo? |
| 16:19.06 | dberkholz | sugree: right again! =) |
| 16:19.25 | sugree | dberkholz: ok, it's done. |
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| 16:20.43 | sugree | dberkholz: please check your status |
| 16:20.58 | dberkholz | ah, sweet. now i can edit my user profile |
| 16:21.08 | dberkholz | sugree: looks good |
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| 16:21.55 | gangil | #tux4kids |
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| 16:26.01 | dberkholz | lh: lemme know when you've got a couple minutes, i have a quick question for you |
| 16:26.40 | kblin | dberkholz: she's not around today I think |
| 16:26.48 | kblin | dberkholz: check the mentor list |
| 16:26.48 | dberkholz | that's fine, no rush. |
| 16:27.10 | kblin | I'd still suggest email |
| 16:27.19 | kblin | it's better at the async communication stuff |
| 16:27.20 | kblin | :) |
| 16:27.40 | dberkholz | i'm a gentooer, i always prefer irc. =P |
| 16:27.52 | dberkholz | it's so much leeter than email |
| 16:28.06 | kblin | damn ricer ;) |
| 16:28.18 | Corsix | everybody can do email, irc is much more elite ;) |
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| 16:29.33 | kblin | I beg to differ |
| 16:29.46 | kblin | I can point you at many people who fail abysmally at email |
| 16:31.25 | HanzZ | just to be sure, I can use all of licences from http://www.opensource.org/licenses/alphabetical ? |
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| 16:33.53 | *** join/#gsoc pygi (n=pygi@metronet91.zg.metro.CARNet.hr) |
| 16:33.54 | pygi | hi |
| 16:34.00 | pygi | congrats to everyone! |
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| 16:35.55 | skiquel | Congrats. |
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| 16:38.39 | kblin | HanzZ: you usually should use the license your project wants you to use |
| 16:38.47 | kblin | anyway, off for dinner |
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| 16:39.40 | HanzZ | kblin: I understand this, but I'm creating new project and I'm thinking about agpl, but I know google doesn't like this one... I'm sure I can use GPLv3 for example, but I'm just curious |
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| 16:42.14 | ajuonline | pygi: to you as well :) |
| 16:42.26 | pygi | ajuonline, thank you, thank you :p |
| 16:42.31 | pygi | but we knew the results way before :D |
| 16:42.46 | ajuonline | :P |
| 16:43.04 | pygi | sticking your tongue out is considered rude |
| 16:43.46 | ajuonline | shoots pygi |
| 16:43.50 | ajuonline | beat that :P |
| 16:44.21 | pygi | ajuonline, ... |
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| 16:44.38 | pygi | dodges in matrix-style, and sends the bullet back at his owner |
| 16:44.45 | ajuonline | whoa |
| 16:44.57 | ajuonline | damn, kids these days are getting smarter |
| 16:45.05 | ajuonline | :D |
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| 16:49.20 | ajuonline | pygi: you on facebook? |
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| 16:49.27 | pygi | ajuonline, of course not |
| 16:49.32 | pygi | what do you think I am?!??! |
| 16:49.40 | ajuonline | oh right :P sorry! :P |
| 16:50.09 | ajuonline | pushes pygi into the well |
| 16:50.10 | pygi | heh |
| 16:50.15 | pygi | oracle got mysql.. |
| 16:50.24 | ajuonline | yeah |
| 16:50.29 | skiquel | is this bad or good? |
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| 16:50.40 | skiquel | not from a business perspective, but from a technical/FLOSS one? |
| 16:50.50 | pygi | skiquel, highly depends I guess |
| 16:50.53 | MaNI | hopefully it will mean more people will use postgres |
| 16:50.54 | milki | there are already a couple blogs about it |
| 16:50.59 | milki | it goes both ways |
| 16:51.16 | milki | but everyone seems to be on the consensus of wait and see |
| 16:51.17 | pygi | I go eat now, we'll discuss later :) |
| 16:51.24 | antarus | mysql already has 8 million forks |
| 16:51.26 | antarus | I'm sure its fine ;p |
| 16:51.29 | milki | lol |
| 16:51.30 | pygi | milki, yes, give them benefit of doubts |
| 16:51.44 | skiquel | a mysql db of mysql forks |
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| 16:51.50 | milki | im sure they will announce their plans at some point? |
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| 16:53.08 | dqminh | JavaOne is next June , probably they will announce there ? |
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| 16:53.30 | smtms | because JavaOne is all about Sun's non-Java products? |
| 16:53.36 | milki | lol |
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| 16:54.27 | pygi | smtms, :D |
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| 16:56.45 | *** topic/#gsoc by Lennie -> Results are up on the website - Community Bonding Period is now! - If You Can't Sleep, Fix Melange Bugs: Easy Bugs: http://tinyurl.com/dax2j9, Minimal Effort Bugs: http://tinyurl.com/d97z24 - Read the GSoC 2009 Site User's Guide http://tinyurl.com/gsoc09userguide - This channel is logged |
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| 17:02.43 | smtms | w/in 3 |
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| 17:07.52 | lut4rp | Hm, Drizzle is one very promising MySQL port |
| 17:07.56 | lut4rp | err, fork |
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| 17:11.09 | nixbox | when are we going to get the t-shirts? |
| 17:11.38 | scorche | usually around the end of the project |
| 17:11.38 | a_vox | nixbox, after the deed. It's a reward, not work clothes |
| 17:11.46 | nixbox | haha ok |
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| 17:12.15 | silver_seven | does anyone know how many people applied? |
| 17:12.22 | Landon | !numapps |
| 17:12.22 | socinfo | "numapps" is This year there are 395 mentoring org apps. That's less than the 500 last year, but there's also much less spam. There are 5900 proposals from 3500 students. |
| 17:13.01 | silver_seven | oh ok. thank you. |
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| 17:48.48 | pygi | hiiiiiii |
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| 17:49.15 | ajuonline | pygi: OHAIII! |
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| 17:49.43 | ajuonline | pygi: kets have the global gsoc meetup this year |
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| 17:50.04 | pygi | ajuonline, what do you mean? |
| 17:50.07 | ajuonline | lets*, there is athread on it i started long back :P\ |
| 17:50.22 | ajuonline | pygi: on the students list |
| 17:50.38 | pygi | ajuonline, I'm not reading that |
| 17:50.56 | ajuonline | pygi: why not? X( |
| 17:51.36 | pygi | ajuonline, lame most of the time |
| 17:51.43 | Landon | its tue |
| 17:51.46 | Landon | this year |
| 17:51.47 | Landon | I make a vow |
| 17:51.50 | Landon | of only reading relevant posts |
| 17:51.51 | Landon | :P |
| 17:51.57 | Landon | instead of all 5000 messages |
| 17:51.58 | pygi | I didn't sleep for the last 4 days, I have other things to work on |
| 17:52.11 | ajuonline | Landon: ha ha ha! :P |
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| 17:52.40 | pygi | ajuonline, going to UDS? |
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| 17:53.58 | ajuonline | pygi: what is that? |
| 17:54.07 | pygi | ajuonline, ubuntu developers summit? :D |
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| 17:55.31 | ajuonline | pygi: heh, I am just an Ubuntu user :P |
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| 17:59.52 | ajuonline | dhairya: 3d? |
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| 18:01.07 | ajuonline | pygi: catch you later :P i got an exam tomorrow ;) |
| 18:01.14 | pygi | ajuonline, good luck :p |
| 18:01.28 | ajuonline | pygi: thanks, databases!! :P |
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| 18:15.33 | pygi | ajuonline, eaaasy! |
| 18:15.46 | pygi | I just did a lot of design regarding databases for the last few days |
| 18:15.47 | ajuonline | ? |
| 18:15.57 | pygi | replication, security, etc, etc |
| 18:15.59 | ajuonline | pygi: teach me:P |
| 18:17.03 | pygi | ajuonline, what you wanna know? |
| 18:17.13 | ajuonline | idk :P still to figure out ;) |
| 18:17.19 | ajuonline | i should quit irc :P laters* ;) |
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| 18:17.26 | ajuonline | pygi: pm me your im. |
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| 19:36.02 | omniter | does anybody know the number of applications this year? i remember it being somewhere around 3000 |
| 19:36.19 | Mek | !numapps |
| 19:36.20 | socinfo | "numapps" is This year there are 395 mentoring org apps. That's less than the 500 last year, but there's also much less spam. There are 5900 proposals from 3500 students. |
| 19:36.34 | omniter | ah! |
| 19:36.38 | omniter | hehe okie |
| 19:36.40 | omniter | thanks |
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| 19:46.04 | summatusmentis | lcuk: pimping your project on slashdot huh? |
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| 19:46.43 | lcuk | :) ive been a reg there for a good long time now, just happy i got accepted is all |
| 19:47.20 | summatusmentis | :-D you've known for a while though right? |
| 19:47.27 | summatusmentis | it's not like you found out when students did |
| 19:48.14 | lcuk | summatusmentis, nothing is taken for granted until official confirmations come through - thats the same with anything in life |
| 19:48.54 | summatusmentis | I suppose |
| 19:49.21 | lcuk | summatusmentis, if it hadnt been for an extremely bright student with great initiative i wouldnt have even got involved |
| 19:50.22 | summatusmentis | oh, I don't disagree with that, I just meant that you've sort've known that your project would probably get it |
| 19:50.22 | lcuk | heh @ the slashdot rating though lol |
| 19:50.29 | lcuk | i thought i would be way down the list |
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| 20:01.31 | l0nwlf_ | !india |
| 20:01.31 | socinfo | "india" is GSoC Indian Community on IRC ##gsoc-india Mailing List: http://groups.google.com/group/gsoc-india?hl=en And help populate the Indian Students List/Profiles here: http://tinyurl.com/dhbud9 |
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| 20:12.37 | summatusmentis | I wants a netbook :( |
| 20:14.20 | dhairya | Hey anyone uses netbook for full time proggramming ? |
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| 20:14.55 | summatusmentis | hypa7ia uses hers for some programming I thik |
| 20:14.59 | summatusmentis | Landon might also |
| 20:15.06 | summatusmentis | although perhaps not |
| 20:15.33 | devilsadvocate | dhairya, i know a debian dev who does |
| 20:15.35 | dhairya | what do you think of the ASUS 1000 HE ? |
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| 20:15.55 | dhairya | Can it be used for full time proggramming ? |
| 20:16.08 | dhairya | devilsadvocate: ohh wow |
| 20:16.11 | hypa7ia | dhairya: i do a lot of work on my netbook, but i have a desktop as well. you /will/ find the small screen limiting |
| 20:16.24 | summatusmentis | devilsadvocate: do you know what they're doing? |
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| 20:16.38 | hypa7ia | dhairya: you can of course just get an external monitor/kb/mouse to use with one |
| 20:16.48 | summatusmentis | I keep hearing stories of people running XP inside a VM on their eee's, and it seems super risky |
| 20:16.52 | Ori_B | heh. I have a 12" 1280x800 resolution laptop; it's *way* too limiting for heavy programming |
| 20:17.16 | dhairya | hypa7ia: I plan to continue my desktop as a primary coding place, just for college, travel and seminars |
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| 20:17.58 | dhairya | so I guess 10" is good for quick code review, but a no-no for long hours |
| 20:18.14 | hypa7ia | dhairya: basically :) |
| 20:18.26 | devilsadvocate | summatusmentis, well, he has all his stuff on external multiple hard drives with encrypted fs, connects to a server to do his heavy ifting (his irc client is isrri on a screen on his server) |
| 20:18.29 | summatusmentis | meh, I use half of my 13.3" laptop screen for coding fulltime |
| 20:18.44 | Ori_B | uses dual 20" LCDs for long coding sessions |
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| 20:18.51 | devilsadvocate | that was <13", and he seemed fine with it |
| 20:19.10 | summatusmentis | my VPS doesn't have the ram to do my heavy lifting :-/ |
| 20:19.13 | Catfish_Man | I do most of my coding on a 13.3" screen, but I use all of it |
| 20:19.18 | devilsadvocate | but he did say that he doesnt actually 'write' code, more like just generally hacks through stuff |
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| 20:19.47 | summatusmentis | I suppose as a debian dev, he's not doing much actual creation |
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| 20:20.20 | dhairya | hypa7ia: buying a notebook - say a Dell Inspiron 13" - 15" or a really sweet package of an ASUS eeePC 1000HE ? only for coding |
| 20:20.21 | devilsadvocate | summatusmentis, he does sysadmin like stuff, and he's a math prof, so theres some of that |
| 20:20.42 | devilsadvocate | he was pretty happy with the netbook actually |
| 20:20.44 | summatusmentis | devilsadvocate: that makes sense. Hrm |
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| 20:21.06 | summatusmentis | I'd love to have a local VM capacity, but that seems like a bad idea |
| 20:21.20 | devilsadvocate | summatusmentis, :) |
| 20:21.23 | summatusmentis | s'pose I could boot off of SD for kernel testing purposes |
| 20:21.26 | dhairya | devilsadvocate: how does Matlab run on one of the newer Netbooks ? |
| 20:21.30 | hypa7ia | dhairya: i have no experience with the dells, but the asus 1000he is teh awesome |
| 20:21.42 | devilsadvocate | dhairya, the power of unix :P run it on a remote server |
| 20:22.10 | devilsadvocate | dhairya, and it'll run just fine there :) |
| 20:22.35 | devilsadvocate | dhairya, if you want to run it locally, then, erm, well, depends on how good a programmer you are |
| 20:22.56 | lcuk | he said, run, not rewrite |
| 20:22.59 | lcuk | :P |
| 20:23.41 | devilsadvocate | lcuk, well, matlab will run. i make no promises about your .m |
| 20:23.59 | summatusmentis | haha |
| 20:24.13 | lcuk | tru |
| 20:24.17 | dhairya | :) |
| 20:24.44 | dhairya | does the screen size really matter after getting used to it ? |
| 20:25.03 | devilsadvocate | dhairya, if you ask me keyboard size would be more of an issue than screen size |
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| 20:25.20 | dhairya | the ASUS 1000he comes with a 92% keyboard |
| 20:25.27 | summatusmentis | I played for like 30 mins on an eee 901 in best buy, they keyboard seemed fine |
| 20:25.28 | devilsadvocate | and if you dare say use an external keyboard i'll jump off my 3rd floor balcony |
| 20:25.31 | dhairya | that too macbook type chiclet style |
| 20:25.42 | summatusmentis | would be a small-ish adjustment, but meh |
| 20:25.50 | summatusmentis | <3 chiclet keys |
| 20:26.03 | dhairya | so keyboard seems no issue |
| 20:26.14 | dhairya | just the screen real estate thatz holding me back :) |
| 20:26.28 | summatusmentis | I'd say keyboard depends on your hand size |
| 20:26.41 | dhairya | true |
| 20:26.45 | dhairya | mine are happy with it :) |
| 20:26.57 | devilsadvocate | i'm used to a full keyboard |
| 20:27.13 | devilsadvocate | got a 15 inch laptop more for the keyboard than the screen |
| 20:27.39 | devilsadvocate | i also need tactile feedback from my keys. |
| 20:27.55 | summatusmentis | the pushing down isn't enough? |
| 20:28.50 | devilsadvocate | theres also the 'how much' pushing down. i dont want it to be hard to keypress, but i want to be sure the key actually got pressed |
| 20:29.13 | devilsadvocate | and not do it accidentally too often |
| 20:29.13 | summatusmentis | I <3 my macbook keyboard, best keyboard I've used |
| 20:29.19 | sanooj | I really loathe those flat touchscreen "keyboards" |
| 20:29.54 | summatusmentis | sanooj: you mean one's on touchscreens? |
| 20:30.01 | sanooj | yes. |
| 20:30.06 | summatusmentis | hrm, I don't know |
| 20:30.23 | summatusmentis | iPhone/iPod touch keyboard isn't horrible |
| 20:30.31 | summatusmentis | if you trust it |
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| 20:30.40 | devilsadvocate | dhairya, screen real estate really becomes an issue only when you do some pretty heavy multitasking or for multimedia (movies, some games) |
| 20:30.41 | summatusmentis | obviously something you shouldn't write code on |
| 20:30.42 | Catfish_Man | I wouldn't want to code on it ;) |
| 20:30.46 | Catfish_Man | heh, jinx |
| 20:30.52 | summatusmentis | :-D |
| 20:30.57 | kblin | away |
| 20:30.58 | kblin | er |
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| 20:31.02 | devilsadvocate | dhairya, otherwise, the virtual desktops + 13 inch screen should really be enough |
| 20:31.03 | getxsick | http://www.redhat.com/about/where-is-open-source/activity/ |
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| 20:31.39 | summatusmentis | hypa7ia: how many apps do you have running at any given time on your wind? |
| 20:32.59 | summatusmentis | hrm, I wonder if I could get away with doing all my coding on a remote box in our programming lab |
| 20:33.36 | summatusmentis | but then again, last I heard, lcuk was building liqbase on his n810 |
| 20:33.56 | lcuk | yes, gcc works extremely hard at 400mhz :) |
| 20:33.59 | dhairya | devilsadvocate: I use my desktop for gaming- netbook is meant to be only for coding and all the more of that - so I guess 10" should be ok |
| 20:34.11 | summatusmentis | lcuk: you're really still doing that? :-P |
| 20:34.38 | lcuk | summatusmentis, yes, i edit files in windows, but i do all my coding on my ARM processor |
| 20:34.53 | summatusmentis | :-P awesome! |
| 20:34.54 | lcuk | what better way to get to know the capabilities of the system than to use it all the time |
| 20:35.00 | summatusmentis | I suppose |
| 20:35.12 | summatusmentis | but urgh, that compile time has got to be slow |
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| 20:35.26 | lcuk | and double plus, because i do all building on the slowest device i know - i KNOW it will fly along on ANYTHING else :) |
| 20:35.33 | lcuk | a few seconds at most |
| 20:35.37 | dhairya | going off |
| 20:35.39 | dhairya | bye |
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| 20:35.43 | lcuk | it takes longer to build and run a .net app |
| 20:35.44 | summatusmentis | I suppose once the initial build is done |
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| 20:35.48 | lcuk | yeah |
| 20:35.54 | lcuk | incremental |
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| 20:35.59 | lcuk | as files are changed |
| 20:36.03 | summatusmentis | right |
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| 20:36.20 | summatusmentis | hrm |
| 20:36.22 | lcuk | full build is under 5 minutes, but it gives me chance for a brew :) |
| 20:36.41 | summatusmentis | codebase is small |
| 20:36.47 | summatusmentis | presusmably |
| 20:36.48 | lcuk | liqbase is small :) |
| 20:38.16 | lcuk | 14500 lines of code lol |
| 20:38.22 | summatusmentis | oh, yeah |
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| 20:38.24 | summatusmentis | psh |
| 20:38.57 | hypa7ia | summatusmentis: this morning i had: firefox with a zillion tabs, thunderbird, tweetdeck (a hoggy adobe air app) and gnome-term |
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| 20:50.26 | kblin | evening folks |
| 20:51.19 | gitte | kblin: Good evening to you! |
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| 20:52.12 | kblin | hey gitte, you missed some fun yesterday evening |
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| 20:54.06 | gitte | kblin: did I? |
| 20:55.02 | gitte | kblin: (I was writing mails to the unlucky students for _two_ organizations, so I could have used some fun; used beer instead.) |
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| 21:00.42 | gitte | !logs |
| 21:00.42 | socinfo | "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc |
| 21:01.06 | summatusmentis | hypa7ia: sounds like what I have open almost all the time on my macbook, hrm |
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| 21:01.31 | hypa7ia | hehe |
| 21:02.13 | gitte | kblin: I cannot see it. |
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| 21:05.03 | kblin | gitte: actually, I guess you actually missed madness mostly |
| 21:05.13 | gitte | kblin: what about? |
| 21:05.38 | kblin | gitte: just this channel, half an hour before the results were announced |
| 21:05.51 | gitte | kblin: yes? |
| 21:06.26 | killerchicken | some ops went on a banning spree :-) |
| 21:06.33 | killerchicken | or muting, rather. |
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| 21:06.51 | kblin | I guess you're not the kind of person who likes watching an anthill in action then :) |
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| 21:08.36 | gitte | kblin: were there so many annoying people in this channel? |
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| 21:08.56 | kblin | gitte: you bet |
| 21:09.28 | gitte | kblin: what did they want? Results? Now? |
| 21:09.45 | kblin | gitte: I had to mute socinfo because people kept calling !next as if that'd make the time run faster |
| 21:09.58 | kblin | gitte: I ended up filing http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=611 |
| 21:10.16 | gitte | kblin: oh, I see your pain. I would have done the same. |
| 21:11.20 | kblin | nice of you to write a personal email to all the students who didn't make it |
| 21:11.36 | gitte | kblin: I feel it is my duty. |
| 21:12.00 | gitte | kblin: they put in such an effort (well, most of them), and they deserve at least a _little_ appreciation. |
| 21:12.20 | gitte | kblin: I even went so far to offer them mentorship if they still want to do what they planned to do. |
| 21:12.26 | kblin | I'm of two minds on that one |
| 21:12.44 | gitte | kblin: and would you believe? Two came back, accepting my offer! (Without Google paying.) |
| 21:13.07 | kblin | well, show me the code |
| 21:13.15 | kblin | I've heard that line before |
| 21:13.27 | gitte | kblin: Actually, one of my mentors suggested telling _every_ student that they were rejected (before the deadline), and then accept only those who would do it nevertheless... :-) |
| 21:13.39 | killerchicken | hm, I don't think it's 100% about the code. If they join the community and provide help on ml or IRC for a little while, that's still useful. |
| 21:13.40 | kblin | ouch |
| 21:13.59 | kblin | gitte: that's a tough one |
| 21:14.03 | gitte | kblin: well, I do not plan to let those just walk away. I have their email addresses, and I _will_ follow up. |
| 21:14.09 | Dark_Shikari | gitte: that's a mean one |
| 21:14.14 | monsieurp | !next |
| 21:14.15 | socinfo | "next" is Check to see if you're accepted by visiting organization home pages at http://tinyurl.com/orghome Accepted students will be added to the private student mailing list in the next few days and Google will ask for tax forms and proof of enrollment later. Meanwhile, start bonding with your community. |
| 21:14.21 | gitte | Dark_Shikari: it was tongue-in-cheek, of course. |
| 21:14.24 | Dark_Shikari | lol |
| 21:14.35 | gitte | killerchicken: valid point. |
| 21:14.37 | kblin | gitte: I probably would have walked out on an org that did that on me |
| 21:15.00 | gitte | killerchicken: OTOH if they were not part of the community, chances are that they cannot really help, unless they get involved way more first. |
| 21:15.06 | killerchicken | hm |
| 21:15.08 | killerchicken | not sure |
| 21:15.18 | killerchicken | I've been told I'm helpful in #git, way before I even joined the ml |
| 21:15.36 | gitte | kblin: probably, but it is a stated goal of GSoC to get long-term contributors. Contributors that _stay_, even when they are not paid. |
| 21:16.02 | Dark_Shikari | gitte: in my experience people become long-term contributors *after* gsoc because they found the work engaging/etc |
| 21:16.12 | kblin | gitte: no, I mean after people told me "actually you're still in, just checking how you'd react" |
| 21:16.29 | gitte | kblin: as a matter of fact, we rejected two students who were participating in previous GSoCs on the ground that they _did_ walk away after the money flow stopped. |
| 21:16.45 | kblin | gitte: that's fair enough |
| 21:16.57 | gitte | killerchicken: you joined the community, then, because obviously you know a lot about Git. |
| 21:17.00 | Dark_Shikari | eh, that's a bit harsh. often people may decide the project just wasn't for them |
| 21:17.12 | killerchicken | gitte: heh. hm. ok :-) |
| 21:17.20 | kblin | Dark_Shikari: but then why reapply? |
| 21:17.28 | gitte | Dark_Shikari: could be, but then, why should we not give others a chance? |
| 21:17.28 | Dark_Shikari | kblin: to find a different organization? |
| 21:17.36 | Dark_Shikari | or are you saying they applied to the same organization |
| 21:17.40 | Dark_Shikari | that they walked away from? |
| 21:17.42 | gitte | kblin: yes, it was tongue-in-cheek, as I said. |
| 21:17.42 | kblin | Dark_Shikari: the latter |
| 21:17.46 | Dark_Shikari | Ahh, well of course |
| 21:18.36 | kblin | Dark_Shikari: though I did ask students who stated they had done gsocs on other projects before why they applied to my org now |
| 21:18.38 | Dark_Shikari | IMO a successful, skilled, motivated student who stays afterwards is more valuable than half a dozen soc students |
| 21:18.47 | gitte | Dark_Shikari: +1 |
| 21:18.49 | Dark_Shikari | if they leave after, you end up with what ffmpeg has |
| 21:18.59 | Dark_Shikari | ENORMOUS numbers of mostly-working or half-working soc projects |
| 21:19.02 | Dark_Shikari | with nobody volunteering to merge them |
| 21:19.07 | Dark_Shikari | because of the very very high code standards |
| 21:19.14 | Dark_Shikari | and the usual process of 15 sequential code review threads on the ML to merge |
| 21:19.25 | Dark_Shikari | soc students write code, get money, leave |
| 21:19.29 | killerchicken | gitte: I think my point was that I think the contributions of people who don't code are often under-valued. |
| 21:19.34 | Dark_Shikari | and the ones who stuck around have done more than most of the others combined |
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| 21:21.05 | killerchicken | but yes, I think it's cool that you talk to rejected students. I hope git profits from gsoc a lot, it would benefit me, as well :-) |
| 21:21.52 | Dark_Shikari | git needs to implement an optional revision numbering system (or date-coding, anything linear) so we can stop using wrapper scripts ;) |
| 21:22.48 | sanooj | why? |
| 21:22.55 | sanooj | what's wrong with tagging at important points? |
| 21:23.01 | Dark_Shikari | if you work on a project where: |
| 21:23.13 | Dark_Shikari | a) every revision is stable (you only push working stuff to the main tree that is intended for users to be able to use) |
| 21:23.25 | Dark_Shikari | b) the main tree is completely linear (branching is only done client-side) |
| 21:23.34 | gitte | killerchicken: you are certainly correct: contributions are often not in the form of code. But for GSoC, code counts. |
| 21:23.41 | Dark_Shikari | c) you don't have numbered releases |
| 21:23.50 | killerchicken | true. But rejected students are free from that "burden" :-) |
| 21:23.50 | Dark_Shikari | the git hash system makes no sense |
| 21:23.54 | gitte | Dark_Shikari: please do not abuse this channel for Git discussions. |
| 21:24.01 | gitte | Dark_Shikari: and for the record, I disagree. |
| 21:24.06 | Dark_Shikari | not really abuse, it's a suggestion to the git people =p |
| 21:24.13 | kblin | #git :) |
| 21:24.16 | Dark_Shikari | git already has the kitchen sink and then some, so why not =p |
| 21:24.37 | kblin | Dark_Shikari: but I can tell you from personal experience, they're all gits |
| 21:24.54 | Dark_Shikari | eh, some are mercurians. Er, I mean mercurials. |
| 21:24.55 | kblin | it said so on their name tags at gittogether08 |
| 21:25.31 | gitte | kblin: WHO SAYS WE'RE ALL GITS? |
| 21:25.33 | gitte | kblin: ;-) |
| 21:25.41 | kblin | gitte: er.. the name tags |
| 21:25.53 | kblin | gitte: you can blame gitney for that |
| 21:26.03 | gitte | kblin: well, I can hardly hide the fact that my first syllable is a Git, right ;-) |
| 21:26.06 | kblin | gitte: also, irc nicks tend to give that awat |
| 21:26.17 | gitte | kblin: he never took on that nick. |
| 21:26.25 | kblin | s#awat#away# |
| 21:26.44 | kblin | gitte: using alternative nick to protect the guilty |
| 21:26.50 | sanooj | Dark_Shikari: so just add autotagging to a commit hook and be done with it. :) |
| 21:26.52 | sanooj | runs |
| 21:26.52 | Dark_Shikari | you mean the gitly |
| 21:27.03 | Dark_Shikari | sanooj: tag every revision? blarghlghghhg |
| 21:27.17 | kblin | gitte: it would've been a dead giveaway if I had just written "speacre" |
| 21:28.02 | gitte | kblin: even iluncdign the tyop. |
| 21:28.13 | kblin | bah |
| 21:28.14 | spectie | i have a silly question |
| 21:28.15 | Dark_Shikari | sanooj: actually, can you add tags to past revisions without doing a push -f? |
| 21:28.20 | SRabbelier | kblin: I wasn't a git :( |
| 21:28.20 | spectie | when do we get to see the auto-generated maps ? :) |
| 21:28.23 | SRabbelier | kblin: even though I wanted to :P |
| 21:28.29 | spectie | i mean on the org pages |
| 21:28.33 | kblin | oh, right SRabbelier wasn't |
| 21:28.51 | kblin | but he signed the NDA, so he's not allowed to talk about not being one |
| 21:28.55 | sanooj | Dark_Shikari: I think you'd just push the tags separately.. but really #git knows best. |
| 21:29.28 | SRabbelier | kblin: :( |
| 21:29.34 | kblin | spectie: once they fixed the privacy issues with it |
| 21:29.35 | SRabbelier | kblin: akshually |
| 21:29.40 | spectie | aha |
| 21:29.41 | spectie | great |
| 21:29.42 | spectie | :) |
| 21:29.45 | SRabbelier | kblin: didn't dsymonds decline all our nda's? |
| 21:29.55 | gitte | likes that nick better. |
| 21:29.58 | kblin | SRabbelier: I don't recall |
| 21:30.13 | SRabbelier | anyway! |
| 21:30.15 | SRabbelier | me off to bed :) |
| 21:30.20 | kblin | SRabbelier: I know I didn't sign it |
| 21:30.23 | gitte | dsymonds did not have a choice. He signed his soal away already. |
| 21:30.36 | SRabbelier | gitte: lol :P |
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| 21:31.04 | kblin | gitte: but anyway, I agree that it's about long-term contributors |
| 21:31.32 | kblin | gitte: I just doubt that people are long-term contributors before having a stake in the software |
| 21:31.53 | kblin | like having written a significant portion |
| 21:31.54 | gitte | kblin: it's a bit hard to admit, but it's about long-term contributors for Open Source, not necessarily my projects ;-) |
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| 21:32.29 | kblin | gitte: I know the incredible pain of getting my code into wine in 2005 almost lost me |
| 21:32.55 | kblin | luckily it's much easier with git |
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| 21:33.34 | gitte | kblin: Yeah, I had the feeling myself that _some_ of the objections in Wine were pretty arbitrary. At least in Git you know why your patch was rejected, and how to change it. |
| 21:33.53 | sanooj | most of the code I wrote for cairo never ended up commited. even large features were culled and the whole thing was distilled into ten commits of goodness. |
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| 21:34.26 | sanooj | it was a pretty long process that took a couple of months past gsoc ending. |
| 21:34.39 | sanooj | never worked that hard for ten measly commits. :) |
| 21:35.17 | gitte | sanooj: they are not measly. |
| 21:35.25 | gitte | sanooj: they are _high_ quality, I am sure. |
| 21:35.36 | gitte | sanooj: you should be proud, they bear your name. |
| 21:35.58 | sanooj | of course. |
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| 21:36.33 | gitte | sanooj: besides, I am sure you learnt a lot. |
| 21:36.50 | gitte | sanooj: and of course, you know people now who you can ask for help, should you need it. |
| 21:36.59 | gitte | sanooj: Open Source... I love it. |
| 21:37.00 | sanooj | yes absolutely. mostly about how open source works on the ground. |
| 21:37.09 | kblin | gitte: well, I know, but the fact is that there's hardly a case we can come up with when alexandre has a hunch and is shown to be wrong in the end |
| 21:37.33 | gitte | kblin: that's not my point. |
| 21:37.38 | tierra | back before I became an official wxWidgets developer, I had a ~2k SLOC patch that took almost two full years to be applied in it's final state... it really depends on what it is, what API it might change (especially true if you're working on a library - such as Cairo too), and the measure of what kind of impact it's going to make when it is applied |
| 21:37.52 | gitte | kblin: I once contributed a patch which got an application working that I needed badly. |
| 21:38.05 | gitte | kblin: I heard _nothing_ about why it was not accepted. That is arbitrary. |
| 21:38.19 | kblin | gitte: no, that SOP |
| 21:38.35 | kblin | gitte: that's what the developer's guide tells you as well |
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| 21:39.23 | kblin | but we've got a SoC student working on a patch trackre |
| 21:39.30 | kblin | tracker |
| 21:39.40 | kblin | I need some caffeine |
| 21:39.54 | pygi | kblin, more patch trackers?! |
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| 21:39.55 | pygi | what? xD |
| 21:40.30 | gitte | kblin: well, this was the reason Wine lost me as a possible contributor. |
| 21:40.49 | gitte | kblin: even if my msysGit work revealed a _lot_ of shortcomings, which I would have fixed otherwise. |
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| 21:44.04 | kblin | pygi: well, it'd also run the wine tests and report failures and do automatable code quality checks and stuff |
| 21:44.28 | pygi | kblin, wait, are we talking review-board/rietveld alike? |
| 21:44.31 | pygi | or did I miss anything? |
| 21:45.01 | gitte | pygi: AFAIK Rietvild does not have code quality control. |
| 21:45.17 | gitte | pygi: and neither the capability to compile, let alone run tests. |
| 21:45.22 | pygi | gitte, you can always integrate it |
| 21:45.25 | pygi | you know, FOSS :) |
| 21:45.34 | gitte | pygi: you know, like GSoC_ |
| 21:45.44 | gitte | pygi: like, what Wine does right now? |
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| 21:45.50 | pygi | gitte, well, if its integration in some of the existing tools, then ++ for that :P |
| 21:46.07 | gitte | pygi: no, Open Source is about reinventing the wheel. 1000 times. |
| 21:46.13 | Landon | and painting it blue |
| 21:46.24 | pygi | gitte, that's called egos |
| 21:46.26 | pygi | and it sucks |
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| 21:48.06 | kblin | pygi: reimplementing stuff is not always about egos |
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| 21:48.22 | kblin | I reimplemented lots of code due to licensing issues |
| 21:48.35 | pygi | kblin, yes, but in most cases it is |
| 21:48.40 | pygi | wine is a special case |
| 21:48.45 | pygi | and samba |
| 21:48.57 | kblin | and sometimes it's just easier to deal with your own bugs than trying to fix other people's bugs |
| 21:49.14 | kblin | which is why I wrote my own base64 codec |
| 21:49.53 | kblin | I looked at a couple of other freely available ones, found them all buggy, looked at the code trying to fix them, and ran away screaming |
| 21:50.22 | kblin | lots of people try to be too smart when writing a base64 codec |
| 21:51.34 | kblin | sometimes you reimplement stuff because it's easier to do things in your framework than fixing other apps to do what you need |
| 21:51.46 | kblin | I tried to move the patch watcher code to buildbot |
| 21:52.14 | kblin | but it's a damn pain to get buildbot to watch -patches mailing lists |
| 21:52.41 | kblin | and still do the right thing if e.g. a patch series is arriving in the wrong order and all that |
| 21:53.23 | araujo | sometimes finds more productive to re-invent the wheel than patching the existing one too |
| 21:53.41 | kblin | it's not like "oh, I'll just roll my own" is the immediate thing you come up with |
| 21:54.04 | p_l | kblin: Unless you're coding in CL ;-) |
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| 21:54.54 | kblin | and last but not least, you might just disagree with the original authors on how things should be designed |
| 21:55.25 | araujo | p_l, CL .... Common Lisp ? |
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| 21:55.31 | p_l | araujo: yes |
| 21:55.44 | gitte | pygi: in any case, absolute statements are usually wrong. |
| 21:55.57 | p_l | a list of web frameworks for CL ended with "if none of these suit you, roll your own" |
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| 21:56.31 | p_l | with a comment somewhere that most of webapps were with "roll your own" |
| 21:56.37 | Dark_Shikari | well my favorite strategy is learn how the exists ones are written, write yours better |
| 21:56.51 | Landon | learning by synthesis++ |
| 21:56.53 | araujo | p_l, well, CL is more about "extending" ... |
| 21:57.00 | Dark_Shikari | this applies to all software |
| 21:57.01 | Dark_Shikari | not just open source |
| 21:57.09 | gitte | Dark_Shikari: it is always better if you find out what is going wrong, and then reuse. But sometimes it is not posibble, that is correct. |
| 21:57.10 | Dark_Shikari | i.e. disassemble proprietary software, learn how it works, write yours better |
| 21:57.26 | kblin | you're kidding me |
| 21:57.34 | Dark_Shikari | ok, so that really only applies to asm algorithms. |
| 21:57.35 | Dark_Shikari | ;) |
| 21:57.55 | Dark_Shikari | I've read through a good 250kloc+ of objdump'd asm from competing proprietary apps though. |
| 21:57.58 | araujo | Dark_Shikari, propietary software? ... sadly, I am not usually impressed by those .... |
| 21:58.01 | Dark_Shikari | most of it totally useless |
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| 21:58.58 | Dark_Shikari | and yeah, not generally impressed. |
| 21:59.34 | p_l | is generally not impressed with software, open or not ;-) |
| 21:59.40 | Dark_Shikari | this is true as well |
| 21:59.43 | kblin | I can't read asm, and from a legal standpoint, I'm happy about that |
| 21:59.56 | araujo | I have had the opportunity to work around some property code ... I usually end up coding helper open source tools ..... |
| 22:00.23 | p_l | the last time I had gone "wow" seeing some piece of software was probably... OpenVMS? :D |
| 22:00.26 | gitte | p_l: I am usually not impressed by people claiming that they are not impressed. |
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| 22:01.03 | gitte | p_l: you went "wow" over OpenVMS? Ah, now I get it. Irony. |
| 22:01.35 | Catfish_Man | watches gitte stack overflow |
| 22:01.46 | p_l | gitte: No, actually went "wow". Sure, it's quirky etc., but I found that I'd like some of the features in Linux, but I lack the skills to implement them :/ |
| 22:02.04 | dberkholz | the old greybeards around here always talk about how things on openvms always made more sense |
| 22:02.14 | gitte | p_l: then I have to go back to the previous statement. |
| 22:02.44 | p_l | heh. Well, it was rather "integrated" system. And my retrocomputing interests made it look much cooler to me :) |
| 22:02.58 | kblin | I'm impressed that the in-kernel smb server in opensolaris is slower than the userspace samba on the same platform :) |
| 22:03.20 | p_l | kblin: Does it do SMB2? |
| 22:03.32 | loufoque | openvms only exists so that a POSIX implementation that does everything differently exists |
| 22:03.40 | gitte | kblin: wow. |
| 22:03.51 | kblin | p_l: didn't try |
| 22:04.35 | kblin | I don't have the 10G ethernet to make smb2 useful |
| 22:04.50 | p_l | loufoque: AFAIK none of the apps that people actually want to use VMS are POSIX-y. And some that have POSIX background are simply "bad idea". But I'm not a VMS wizard, so take my opinion with a (giant) grain of salt |
| 22:05.27 | p_l | loufoque: if you want really different but still posix compliant... z/OS? |
| 22:05.59 | p_l | kblin: a lot of things that are supposedly changed in SMB2 make sense everywhere... |
| 22:06.24 | kblin | p_l: a couple of people I know have a different opinion on that |
| 22:06.27 | p_l | kblin: And if they made directory traversals faster, I had seen some quite interesting fuckups with Samba 3 and windows networks... |
| 22:06.35 | theholyduck | 's next computer wil be solaris compitable so he can have zfs |
| 22:06.57 | theholyduck | this lack of decent zfs support on linux has put me in despair |
| 22:07.07 | p_l | kblin: Well, I heard that it enforces a lot of stuff that was "optional" or "layered" on top of old SMB |
| 22:07.08 | kblin | p_l: and I'm afraid if I need to choose between your opinion and that of the folks who've been working on samba for the last 15 years, I guess you lose out |
| 22:07.30 | loufoque | theholyduck: just use freebsd |
| 22:07.32 | p_l | kblin: I guess so. I'm trying to avoid SMB usage anyway :) |
| 22:07.43 | theholyduck | loufoque, freebsd doesnt work either ;( |
| 22:07.46 | theholyduck | my hardware is weird |
| 22:07.56 | theholyduck | it doesnt work on linux 2.6.26 or older |
| 22:08.11 | theholyduck | and doesnt fully work on anything but 2.6.28 or newer |
| 22:08.37 | loufoque | well so it's only on 2.6.26 and 2.6.27 that it doesn't work |
| 22:08.40 | loufoque | not that bad |
| 22:09.03 | p_l | loufoque: anything older than 2.6.27 is out |
| 22:09.17 | theholyduck | err it doesnt work at all on anything befoe 2.6.26. 2.6.27 barely works :P |
| 22:09.25 | theholyduck | and then 2.6.28 it all works |
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| 22:09.41 | theholyduck | p_l, didnt help that sid was stuck at 2.6.26 for ages |
| 22:09.46 | theholyduck | due to lenny |
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| 22:09.57 | theholyduck | ment i had to compile my own |
| 22:10.12 | loufoque | don't use debian stable for a desktop |
| 22:10.18 | theholyduck | i dont :P |
| 22:10.21 | theholyduck | i always use unstable |
| 22:10.26 | p_l | as for previous discussion on networked FS... what would you recommend for networking linux/unix machines? |
| 22:10.33 | theholyduck | but when i GOT my new computer, unstable was stuck on 2.6.26 |
| 22:10.41 | theholyduck | and it was for months |
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| 22:10.53 | theholyduck | due to the process of lenny becoming stable |
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| 22:11.22 | kblin | p_l: I'm using SMB, but I'm probably biased |
| 22:11.40 | kblin | p_l: but nfsv3 sucks |
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| 22:12.37 | theholyduck | uses smb, but only because the first time i needed a network filesystem. i had to interface with a windows box, and once you got samba setup, why bother getting nfs? |
| 22:13.04 | p_l | I was wondering about NFSv4, but I heard that it doesn't really work outside Solaris... |
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| 22:13.38 | freebsd-brooks | p_l: the basic stuff worked when I tested on of our RHEL 5 machines |
| 22:14.15 | kblin | p_l: the kernel cifs module is pretty decent |
| 22:14.18 | freebsd-brooks | it looks like FreeBSD should have fairly complete support in 8.0 |
| 22:14.59 | gitte | thinks ZFS is _way_ overrated. |
| 22:15.05 | p_l | what about NFSv4 ACLs? I have worked with them on ZFS, and they certainly beat having to use POSIX ACLs... |
| 22:15.26 | kblin | p_l: they still use uids and gids |
| 22:15.35 | kblin | and the whole concept of that is pretty broken |
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| 22:15.44 | kblin | cifs doesn't help you with that, though |
| 22:15.55 | freebsd-brooks | p_l: being committed to FreeBSD soon, they were a GSoC project last year |
| 22:16.34 | freebsd-brooks | once that goes in, linux will be the odd man out on acls |
| 22:16.35 | p_l | kblin: I had to write a script to rewrite permissions on Solaris box some time ago, for a directory that was later hosted through Samba... unfortunately, UNIX permission model failed :/ |
| 22:16.37 | kblin | would love to have global unique identifiers in the kernel |
| 22:17.05 | kblin | p_l: there's an NFSv4 ACL module for samba |
| 22:17.49 | p_l | kblin: Yes, I was rather relieved finding that Samba worked correctly with new ACL schema... the real kicker was writing the code to work on UFS >_< |
| 22:18.23 | kblin | anyway, I need some sleep |
| 22:18.27 | kblin | see you folks tomorrow |
| 22:18.34 | p_l | cya |
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| 22:43.11 | Landon | I wonder if it's such a good idea to link to an image on my site from the SoC site |
| 22:43.16 | Landon | hopes his project page has low traffict |
| 22:43.17 | Landon | :P |
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| 23:27.18 | Landon | summatusmentis: wheres the pictures in your project , huh! |
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| 23:30.50 | straydawg | lo |
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| 23:45.15 | skiquel | Howdy |
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