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| 05:35.24 | Landon | wonders who is holding his teachers at gunpoint to get them to use new editions of books in their course |
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| 08:59.25 | thebolt | Landon: well, did they write the books themselves? ;) Alternatively.. they probably got the latest edition for free from the publisher.. (but usually older editions tend to work as well) |
| 08:59.55 | Landon | I don't think I've had any professors that have written books yet :( |
| 09:00.19 | Landon | but it seems that if they've already got problem sets and such made out for the old edition, why move to a new one? |
| 09:00.25 | Landon | in this case, one that just came out last month... |
| 09:00.55 | Landon | (also, I'd agree with you on content, but the questions change between editions :( and that's the majority of what I've ever used my ECE books for) |
| 09:04.25 | thebolt | in many cases our bookstores only carries the latest edition.. |
| 09:04.44 | thebolt | but the professors will give out problem sets saying "for latest edition do:....., for edition n-1:..." |
| 09:05.24 | Landon | I'm still in the core courses, where they seem to switch professors out randomly |
| 09:06.22 | Landon | I tried asking one year for a set of problems for the previous edition of the book, but some other professor was teaching it at the time |
| 09:13.42 | [mharrison] | Landon, what the fuck? |
| 09:14.11 | Landon | thats what I thought too! |
| 09:14.41 | [mharrison] | Buying the latest edition is fucking retarded |
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| 09:18.35 | [mharrison] | r0bby|android, what the fuck? |
| 09:19.16 | Landon | xD |
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| 10:58.43 | kblin | thebolt: nice picture. our turtle pretty much looked the same |
| 11:01.46 | kblin | Landon: having professors write books they use for teaching does not have to be a bonus |
| 11:02.36 | kblin | Landon: I've had a professor who wrote "the book" for his neural networks lecture s his habilitation thesis |
| 11:04.17 | kblin | not too bad yet, but having a lecture in 2007 based on a book published in 1994 is kind of weird |
| 11:04.33 | thebolt | kblin: :) the one i saw in taiwan was larger but further away.. and couldn't get a shot off until it was long gone ;) |
| 11:05.39 | kblin | thebolt: how deep was this one? |
| 11:05.56 | thebolt | the one photograhped? not very deep.. 10-15-something |
| 11:05.59 | thebolt | 15 i guess |
| 11:11.12 | kblin | you might want to try using the white balance setting of your camera underwater. you can get pretty nice colors in a depth like that :) |
| 11:11.52 | thebolt | well, my camera is _very_ limited |
| 11:11.55 | thebolt | the one i use below that is ;) |
| 11:12.03 | thebolt | not sure i even have manual white balance |
| 11:12.20 | kblin | oh, I see |
| 11:12.31 | thebolt | and i was a bit double once i got home.. i can fix colors in lightroom, however my subjective view was that the water _was_ really green |
| 11:12.38 | thebolt | (quite a bit of green particles in it) |
| 11:12.44 | thebolt | so not sure I wanted to remove that.. |
| 11:12.56 | kblin | fair enough |
| 11:13.07 | thebolt | is too afraid and too poor to put his D300 or D50 into UV-housings.. |
| 11:13.59 | kblin | there's housings that come with seal-breach alarms so you can abort the dive when your case is leaking :) |
| 11:14.16 | thebolt | for now i do photography above the surface |
| 11:14.23 | [mharrison] | For underwater cameras, kblin uses manual white balance? As in, white balancing in camera instead of just shooting raw and doing it in post? |
| 11:14.24 | thebolt | and have a small camera mostly for my own sake when below |
| 11:14.48 | kblin | of course a case like that probably costs more than the camera body |
| 11:14.49 | thebolt | been thinking about getting a g9 or g10 or so for underwater stuff.. but it still is too much money |
| 11:15.14 | thebolt | nah, you can get a good D300 case at about the same price as the camera body ($1.2k or so) |
| 11:15.30 | thebolt | but then you need flashes (another couple of hundred usd) etc |
| 11:15.45 | kblin | [mharrison]: no, I don't have an underwater camera.. the white balance is a trick my dad told me.. |
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| 11:16.52 | thebolt | it isn't totally bad for normal photos, and you can do as [mharrison] says and use RAW + fix it in post.. |
| 11:16.55 | thebolt | much worse for video.. |
| 11:17.11 | kblin | and I'd be very surprised seeing my old man using gimp to post-process stuff like that |
| 11:17.56 | [mharrison] | I'd be very worried by an actual photographer white balancing something like underwater photography in camera instead of post =P |
| 11:18.28 | thebolt | [mharrison]: well, several of my underwater-photographing friends started out way before post was an option ;) |
| 11:18.56 | thebolt | (say 20 years ago) |
| 11:19.13 | [mharrison] | Post has always been an option. And you don't white balance film as you're shooting =P |
| 11:19.40 | kblin | shrugs |
| 11:20.03 | kblin | the results look pretty good for my dad's d80 |
| 11:20.08 | thebolt | for semi-amature stuff it wasn't an option really 20 years ago |
| 11:20.31 | [mharrison] | Eh? |
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| 11:22.39 | kblin | so why, as an amateur, would you want to spend the week _after_ your vacation to fix up dozens of pictures to be not blue-green if your camera can do it while taking the picture? |
| 11:25.08 | [mharrison] | Post offers you a much higher level of color control, and in the end, your monitor is going to interpret the colors differently than your camera does anyway. For shooting anything as important as underwater stuff, it should always be done in RAW |
| 11:25.57 | [mharrison] | Granted, higher-end cameras have pretty good in-camera white balance these days, especially if you have a set of white balancing cards |
| 11:27.25 | kblin | not if you don't have the know-how |
| 11:28.31 | [mharrison] | Well if you don't care enough to have the know-how, then you don't care how your photos look in the end, so who cares =P |
| 11:28.34 | kblin | if you need to use the "please fix up my picture" button in your windows photo-editing software, I'd guess the camera does a better job at fixing up the picture |
| 11:28.52 | kblin | pfft |
| 11:29.06 | kblin | not everybody is a geek |
| 11:29.57 | [mharrison] | No, but I mean someone either cares about color and thus knows how to white balance, or they don't care and will be happy with whatever the camera produces |
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| 11:34.05 | kblin | fair enough :) |
| 11:36.44 | [mharrison] | Anyway, didn't mean to derail your conversation, but I saw camera talk and got excited |
| 11:37.38 | thebolt | hehe |
| 11:38.06 | thebolt | well, partly I do agree with you [mharrison], i tend to shoot raw for anything I shoot with my "big" system and make (small) corrections afterwards |
| 11:38.18 | thebolt | however, if i can get decent white balance directly i try to get it ;) |
| 11:38.32 | [mharrison] | I know a photographer who buys disposable underwater film cameras and does amazing things with them...much cheaper than getting a housing for a DSLR |
| 11:39.01 | [mharrison] | thebolt, sure - do what you can while shooting, but for stuff that would be difficult/impossible to reshoot, gotta do RAW |
| 11:39.59 | [mharrison] | The film analogy to this is loading the right film for the lighting conditions you'll be shooting in, and either sending it to a good lab or knowing what you're doing in the darkroom |
| 11:40.17 | kblin | [mharrison]: but the disposable cameras are good for a depth of about 5 meters |
| 11:40.45 | [mharrison] | Yeah that's true |
| 11:40.51 | thebolt | which is about one magnitude too little ;) |
| 11:40.52 | kblin | and unless you're carrying a bag of them, you won't get too many pictures per dive |
| 11:42.06 | [mharrison] | Underwater housings are crazy expensive....but I guess it's like buying insurance for your expensive DSLR =D |
| 11:42.35 | thebolt | reminds me.. i should check if my buddy wants to go out and do some deep diving next week.. i need to practice some and need to empty the O2 i have so i can clean the tank ;) |
| 11:42.38 | kblin | with his old nikonos camera (and plain old film rolls) my dad calculated that if he was photographing moving targets like fish, about 2/3rds of the pictures were thrown away |
| 11:43.05 | [mharrison] | Well that's often how film shoots go |
| 11:43.11 | kblin | right |
| 11:43.24 | kblin | but you're limited to about 12 pictures per dive |
| 11:44.07 | thebolt | wonders how long dive you can survive in this temperature.. |
| 11:44.19 | kblin | with a digital camera, your sd card can store more pictures that you can take with the air you tend to have |
| 11:44.59 | kblin | also, the disposable cameras tend to have less film in them.. the ones I've seen have 24 pictures |
| 11:45.34 | [mharrison] | 12-32 exposures is standard for film, unless you have a magazine |
| 11:46.47 | kblin | I thought that was 36.. can you tell it's been a while since I last used my N70? |
| 11:48.28 | thebolt | there are up to 36, at least was back when i used my analog the last time (which was, obviously, before my brother got it stolen..) |
| 11:49.32 | [mharrison] | Er yeah, 36 not 32 |
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| 11:50.51 | thebolt | got his brother to, many years later, buy him a sb600 flash as compensation for the stolen analog slr.. |
| 11:51.10 | [mharrison] | SB600 is nice |
| 11:51.37 | kblin | hehe, crabs with antennae do bad things to autofocus :) |
| 11:51.59 | thebolt | kblin: ;) |
| 11:52.08 | thebolt | [mharrison]: yes it is, esp as my camera body can remote-trigger it |
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| 11:52.28 | [mharrison] | Yup, that's what I use |
| 11:52.50 | thebolt | which body do you use? |
| 11:53.16 | [mharrison] | http://www.flickr.com/photos/matthew_harrison/3084732539/ |
| 11:53.35 | thebolt | ah, nice :) |
| 11:53.51 | thebolt | i "only" have a 300.. but i realized i don't really need the full format (yet at least for some years) |
| 11:54.11 | thebolt | so saved that money to get some better glas than what i have now.. (most of my glas is still from using my d50 i had before) |
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| 11:54.28 | [mharrison] | D300 is a mighty fine body, but hot damn I love FX |
| 11:54.36 | thebolt | is looking at getting a decent 20-70ish 2.8 or so |
| 11:55.04 | thebolt | right now i am in love with the 300 + 50mm/1.4 (old one), gets some really nice pictures |
| 11:55.18 | [mharrison] | Nikon's 24-70 is fantastic, but if you're on a budget like me, I love my Sigma 24-70 |
| 11:55.29 | thebolt | yea, i've tested the nikon one |
| 11:55.33 | thebolt | but it is a tad expensive |
| 11:55.36 | thebolt | is a student.. |
| 11:55.41 | thebolt | (with expensive hobbies.. unforutnately) |
| 11:56.00 | [mharrison] | Ditto |
| 11:56.12 | [mharrison] | I paid $700 for my Sigma, and I rarely unscrew it |
| 11:56.20 | thebolt | heh |
| 11:56.35 | [mharrison] | My only Nikon lens is the 50 f/1.8. My telephoto is a Tamron |
| 11:56.41 | thebolt | :) |
| 11:57.02 | thebolt | i got nikon 18-55 and 55-200 as kit for my d50 a couple of years back |
| 11:57.15 | thebolt | the 18-55 is decent quality (for DX) but not so bright |
| 11:57.59 | thebolt | then i have a 18-200 VR2 which isn't that good quality wise but when you are in "tourist mode" and have no idea what you will encounter it is nice.. got a really good price when i got it so i'll probably keep it for a while.. and then the 50/1.4 |
| 11:58.28 | thebolt | cannot say i've used either of the two first in a long time, but they won't get me much if i try to sell them either so :/ |
| 11:58.29 | [mharrison] | Yeah, I had the 18-200 on my D50, and fortunately I no longer have either of those things |
| 11:58.57 | thebolt | heh |
| 11:59.13 | thebolt | well, in the mid-range the 18-200 is acceptable (not good, acceptable) |
| 11:59.23 | thebolt | will have to do until i can afford anything else ;) |
| 11:59.47 | [mharrison] | It's fine as long as there's light and you don't care about depth of field. But I'm a photojournalist and I very much care about both |
| 12:00.04 | [mharrison] | both being depth of field and the ability to shoot low-light |
| 12:00.09 | thebolt | yea |
| 12:00.27 | thebolt | as said, its not good for anything, but for now it will do for the "tourist mode" travel ;) |
| 12:00.38 | thebolt | in those situations i value getting any picture over getting a really good one ;) |
| 12:01.25 | [mharrison] | Yeah |
| 12:01.33 | [mharrison] | I've never been able to shoot "tourist" mode though |
| 12:01.44 | kblin | or over logging around 50kg worth of lenses? |
| 12:01.49 | [mharrison] | My standards for my photos are much higher than anyone else's standards for my photos, heh |
| 12:01.57 | kblin | lugging, not logging |
| 12:02.09 | thebolt | kblin: well, the problem is not only carrying, but having the right lense at the right time ;) |
| 12:02.19 | [mharrison] | kblin, you could argue that carrying a 70-200 f/2.8 is similar to logging =P |
| 12:02.34 | kblin | [mharrison]: if you're a photojournalist, I think that's a good thing :) |
| 12:02.38 | kblin | hehe |
| 12:02.38 | thebolt | heh, i have pretty high standards, but not unreasonably high.. after all it is only a hobby ;) |
| 12:03.27 | thebolt | [mharrison]: i take it you have seen sigmas 200-500 f/2.8 ;) |
| 12:03.38 | [mharrison] | lol |
| 12:03.45 | thebolt | 15.7 kg ;) |
| 12:04.03 | thebolt | 72cm long, 24cm diameter ;) |
| 12:04.30 | [mharrison] | Lenses like that are why I hope to never have to shoot sports beyond the college level |
| 12:04.36 | thebolt | hehe |
| 12:04.41 | kblin | hehe |
| 12:04.44 | thebolt | http://www.dpreview.com/news/0703/07030805sigma200500mm.asp |
| 12:05.04 | [mharrison] | Yeah, that's just stupid |
| 12:05.11 | [mharrison] | I don't care what I'm shooting, I'd rather just get closer |
| 12:05.17 | [mharrison] | Or not bother shooting it |
| 12:05.49 | [mharrison] | Heck, it would be easier to bring my Meade ETX telescope with me than that thing |
| 12:05.59 | thebolt | :-) |
| 12:06.14 | thebolt | funny thing is that it is delivered in a pelican case.. the case itself weights 23 kg :P |
| 12:07.29 | kblin | is still waiting for the page to load |
| 12:08.19 | thebolt | heh |
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| 12:08.38 | kblin | teh intertubes on this island are a tad slowish |
| 12:08.42 | [mharrison] | kblin, well the JPEG for that lens alone weights 50kg =P |
| 12:08.46 | thebolt | hehe |
| 12:09.58 | [mharrison] | I can't believe that lens still uses the squishy weird Sigma material |
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| 12:10.13 | kblin | no. sattelite internet is just slow :) |
| 12:10.58 | kblin | funny thing is that IRC works ok (I do type faster than it'll transmit over my ssh session, but it's almost bearable) |
| 12:11.21 | kblin | for web stuff, page load times just suck |
| 12:12.05 | kblin | I blame it on DNS, but even with a dns cache you need to resolve every hostname at least once |
| 12:12.49 | [mharrison] | allisterb could tell you all about the horrors of satellite internet if he could actually maintain a connection long enough to do so |
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| 12:14.14 | kblin | hehe |
| 12:17.23 | [mharrison] | kblin, what island are you on? Last I heard Germany was still attached to the mainland |
| 12:19.20 | thebolt | they do have some islands.. but kblin is far from them ;) |
| 12:22.28 | kblin | [mharrison]: bonaire, dutch antilles |
| 12:22.45 | kblin | for another few hours |
| 12:23.02 | [mharrison] | Ah |
| 12:23.16 | [mharrison] | I love The Fresh Prince of Bonaire...great show =P |
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