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20:37.28 | _Samo | hi |
20:38.51 | _Samo | we are a small FOSS project, I wonder what methods other small projects use to enroll students in their GSOC projects |
20:39.55 | _Samo | wether those students have been involved for a while or just contact the FOSS project in case they are interested |
20:40.43 | _Samo | or the FOSS projects engage in some kind of active recruitment |
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21:53.15 | kblin | _Samo: depends, I think |
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21:54.05 | _Samo | it is difficult for us to enroll students first because of the subject |
21:54.23 | _Samo | second, because we are small and not known |
21:54.53 | kblin | _Samo: what's your project about? |
21:55.03 | _Samo | raytracing |
21:55.21 | kblin | what language are you guys using? |
21:55.28 | _Samo | C++ |
21:56.15 | _Samo | but in general raytracing ideas aren't that easy to code |
21:56.15 | kblin | sounds reasonable enough |
21:56.23 | kblin | right |
21:56.44 | Ivanovic | _Samo: it is normal that myriads of students pop in once the list of orgs is published |
21:56.56 | _Samo | the project is here, www.yafaray.org |
21:56.59 | Ivanovic | so make sure to react on the "way to get in contact" |
21:57.01 | kblin | it'll certainly limit the number of applications you'll get opposed to if your project was about php webprogramming |
21:57.06 | Ivanovic | that is in general the best thing to do |
21:57.28 | kblin | _Samo: oh, I wouldn't call yafaray not known |
21:57.39 | kblin | but yeah, what Ivanovic says |
21:58.04 | kblin | google will publish a list of projects, that usually gets lots of students to look at your stuff |
21:58.15 | Ivanovic | eg for wesnoth the only thing important for us is "is the person a student" and "do we think that the project is okay (doable!!!) as well as interesting (for us!)" combined with a "do we think the student might stay post SoC?" |
21:58.40 | Ivanovic | so the student can have been part of the dev team before or not, it does not matter too much |
21:58.56 | Ivanovic | the student *has* to convince us that we want to work with him for the time of SoC and possible longer |
21:59.13 | Ivanovic | so we ask to see some code (and prefer patches against our own codebase ^^) |
21:59.42 | _Samo | kblin, Ivanovic, how do we get in that list of 'projects' |
21:59.54 | Ivanovic | as important as the code is communications, so we ask them to be somehow available to talk to them, our main way of communications being irc |
21:59.57 | _Samo | that google publishes |
22:00.08 | Ivanovic | you are automatically in the list if you are accepted as project for SoC |
22:00.09 | kblin | well, assuming google does a GSoC 2010, you apply as a mentoring organization |
22:00.23 | thebolt | hi kblin , Ivanovic |
22:00.29 | Ivanovic | and yeah, there are always more orgs applying than being accepted |
22:00.30 | kblin | if you're accepted, you're on the list |
22:00.33 | Ivanovic | hi thebolt |
22:00.37 | kblin | hi thebolt |
22:01.02 | _Samo | kblin, Ivanovic, can we apply without students? |
22:01.06 | kblin | yeah |
22:01.29 | _Samo | I mean If we have not found any student yet |
22:01.30 | Ivanovic | _Samo: first you as project apply basically telling google "yeah, we want to host some student projects and mentor students!" |
22:01.32 | Catfish_Man | _Samo: you have things backwards. You get students after applying, not before |
22:01.39 | Ivanovic | afterwards the students apply for projects |
22:01.44 | _Samo | ok thanks |
22:01.45 | Catfish_Man | the students apply via google's webapp |
22:01.48 | Ivanovic | of course you also post some samples of possible projects |
22:01.53 | Catfish_Man | and google tells you how many students you can accept |
22:02.01 | kblin | all you need is a project that is open sourced, a bunch of cool project ideas and mentors for said proposed projects |
22:02.31 | _Samo | It's ok that we publish an ideas page before we get in contact with any student? |
22:02.40 | kblin | yes |
22:02.44 | Ivanovic | _Samo: it is mandatory that you post some possible projects |
22:03.07 | _Samo | ok then we have that part already |
22:03.09 | Ivanovic | otherwise the folks at google would have no idea what they would be getting students into when allowing you (as org) to participate |
22:03.33 | kblin | _Samo: the GSoC mentoring guide chapter 5 is good reading for that :) |
22:03.41 | Catfish_Man | _Samo: in general, students contact you, not vice versa. Although plenty of mentors do hang out on #gsoc "recruiting" ;) |
22:04.01 | _Samo | thanks kblin |
22:04.13 | Ivanovic | _Samo: the list of project ideas we had for last year (keep in mind that there were *by far* better idea lists than ours!): http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas#List_of_Ideas_for_the_Project_.28Suggestions_from_the_wesnoth_developers.29 |
22:04.42 | Ivanovic | if you eg also list stuff like difficulty level and the likes and maybe apply some sophisticated sorting it would probably be even better |
22:05.00 | Ivanovic | Catfish_Man: there are students in here? |
22:05.03 | Ivanovic | shies away |
22:05.04 | Ivanovic | ;) |
22:05.07 | Catfish_Man | heh |
22:05.24 | Landon | thinks a suggested patch/bugfix would go over well too |
22:05.30 | kblin | _Samo: the trick is that you put enough information to tell people what it's about, but leave enough out so people need to do some research to write their applications |
22:05.31 | _Samo | Ivanovic, once a mentoring has applied, seems a bit of a short period of time for students to applu |
22:05.32 | Landon | if you have any that touch the section of the codebase the project is in |
22:05.46 | Ivanovic | _Samo: the time is enough |
22:06.02 | Catfish_Man | _Samo: believe me, you don't want more time. Sorting through all the proposals can be quite a bit of work |
22:06.02 | _Samo | ok |
22:06.03 | Ivanovic | Landon: that is why we ask for code samples |
22:06.10 | Catfish_Man | particularly with the rise in spammy proposals |
22:06.26 | Ivanovic | and yeah, many do submit some usefull patches and gain commit access this way |
22:06.28 | Landon | Ivanovic: I'm thinking more for the students benefit |
22:06.35 | kblin | Catfish_Man: dunno, we were over fast, apart from that one python-y proposal |
22:06.47 | Ivanovic | (our rule for gaining commit access (at wesnoth) is "two to three non trival patches and you get access") |
22:07.05 | Catfish_Man | kblin: I remember some really painful arguments over adium student proposals |
22:07.09 | Ivanovic | this way the person wanting to work on things gets some feedback and is able to somehow sync the style |
22:07.17 | Catfish_Man | the ones where we had 6 good students and 5 slots or whatever |
22:07.50 | Ivanovic | _Samo: just have a look at the link i just gave you |
22:08.07 | Ivanovic | _Samo: most students also added a page in our wiki with the detailed version of their proposal |
22:08.08 | kblin | Catfish_Man: ok, two out of three orgs I mentor need C coders, those are few and far apart |
22:08.24 | Ivanovic | as you see, this is a *part* of the proposals we had (okay, basically some 70 to 80%) |
22:08.29 | Catfish_Man | looks at the project he has open for work and feels all job-secure |
22:08.34 | Ivanovic | some of those are *really* a lot to read through and comment on |
22:08.48 | Catfish_Man | (CoreFoundation.framework; mixed ObjC/C, an even rarer skillset ;) ) |
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22:11.40 | kblin | Catfish_Man: meh.. as long as biologists stay clueless about computers, my job is secure as well :) |
22:11.49 | thebolt | kblin: aka forever ;) |
22:12.13 | thebolt | kblin: i count on physicists catching up before biologists.. they've tried for 40 years but are still way off so ;) |
22:12.14 | Ivanovic | :) |
22:14.20 | kblin | thebolt: really? I know more physicists in IT jobs than people with a CS degree |
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22:15.00 | Catfish_Man | kblin: that's a good point actually; my housemate is an ex-physics major who's in developer tools engineering here |
22:15.14 | Landon | kblin: no one's told you about bio-informatics yet? :P |
22:15.27 | kblin | Landon: what's that? |
22:15.33 | thebolt | kblin: well, i ment those that actually continued in physics ;) |
22:15.37 | Landon | kblin: (not that they're unclueless about computers there either... I still have to help them upload files to the website every odd month or so) |
22:15.44 | Ivanovic | Landon: there are some doing so? |
22:15.50 | _Samo | Kblin, once we have applied as a mentor organisation, with an ideas page, can later a student propose a different idea? or he has to stick to what we have proposed? |
22:16.04 | Ivanovic | _Samo: those ideas are *only* samples |
22:16.09 | kblin | _Samo: students can always propose their own ideas |
22:16.13 | Ivanovic | of course students can apply with other ideas, too |
22:16.18 | _Samo | ok |
22:16.23 | kblin | _Samo: in fact, the ones who do likely are your best picks :) |
22:16.31 | Ivanovic | and, if you are accepted as org you are the ones in the end to decide who you want to take |
22:16.48 | _Samo | I think I'm understanding now |
22:16.53 | kblin | Landon: did I mention I've got a degree in that subject? :) |
22:16.55 | _Samo | thanks guys |
22:17.05 | Landon | kblin: touche :P |
22:17.57 | kblin | ok, I better be off to theatre now, talk to you folks later |
22:18.06 | kblin | _Samo: my pleasure |
22:18.12 | thebolt | cya |
22:18.27 | _Samo | one last question, how we organise our mentors |
22:18.29 | Ivanovic | _Samo: you're welcome |
22:18.38 | Ivanovic | _Samo: that is completely up to you! |
22:18.46 | Catfish_Man | _Samo: well, hopefully |
22:19.03 | _Samo | I mean shall we have one mentor for each idea? |
22:19.15 | Catfish_Man | read the guide |
22:19.28 | Ivanovic | _Samo: you need the mentors for the students, not the ideas |
22:19.29 | Ivanovic | ;) |
22:19.43 | _Samo | ok that what I say always to our users |
22:19.46 | _Samo | :) |
22:19.57 | Ivanovic | and yeah, mentoring can be *a lot* work (or it can be really relaxed) |
22:20.03 | Ivanovic | it all depends on the student as well as the "project" |
22:20.20 | Catfish_Man | yeah. "Oh hey my student is better at this than me" is a wonderful realization |
22:20.34 | Catfish_Man | "yeah kid, go nuts. Check with me before doing anything too dangerous" :) |
22:20.40 | Ivanovic | a simple project with a brilliant student will probably result in an easy life for the respective mentor |
22:20.42 | _Samo | Ivanovic, at the end the important thing is to have enough mentors for the 'students' slots assigned by google, isn't it? |
22:20.55 | Ivanovic | but a damn difficult project and a bordercase student can result in lots of headache |
22:21.02 | Ivanovic | _Samo: yes |
22:21.02 | _Samo | I see |
22:21.21 | Ivanovic | in general the most important part is to communicate |
22:21.36 | Ivanovic | yes, if the student is too quite the mentor should ask how things are going |
22:22.01 | thebolt | Ivanovic: definitely.. i mentored a student (really good student) a few years back where it took us about 2 months (ie all time from student selection to program start) to learn the maths to undertsand his project ;) but he did great after that |
22:22.37 | Ivanovic | thebolt: just what i said, it can be a hell of a job when the project itself is diffcult |
22:22.48 | thebolt | (project used a lot of differential and projective geometry in high dimensions ;) |
22:23.14 | thebolt | Ivanovic: yep, just extending what you said to that even a good student can be much work to mentor, if the project is hard |
22:25.04 | Ivanovic | :) |
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23:32.56 | MatthewWilkes | What's with the mute? |
23:33.04 | thiago_home | what mute? |
23:33.13 | MatthewWilkes | I couldn't change my nick just then |
23:33.26 | MatthewWilkes | I don't know what the options are, but I got cannot send to #gsoc |
23:33.33 | MatthewWilkes | I'm guessing it's unregistered users? |
23:33.47 | Catfish_Man | correct |
23:33.50 | Catfish_Man | there's been spambot issues |
23:33.53 | Catfish_Man | so people are setting +R |
23:34.15 | MatthewWilkes | The guy repeating URLs? |
23:34.34 | MatthewWilkes | Seen him a few times, gets klined after a few seconds |
23:35.06 | Catfish_Man | it's not "a guy" |
23:35.10 | Catfish_Man | it's anyone who visits certain websites |
23:35.16 | Catfish_Man | the js on the website does it automatically |
23:36.19 | MatthewWilkes | Whatever, same result. See you fellows later one, gonna take #gsoc off auto-join until it's over |
23:36.23 | MatthewWilkes | on* |
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