| 00:00.04 | shuffle2 | everyone that works for noy becomes an enemy of the state! |
| 00:00.29 | ilienert | shuffle2: unless it's the CIA! |
| 00:00.32 | danderson | noy: hmm, actually, I don't see the admin name published anywhere public. |
| 00:00.33 | schumaml | or worse, an enemy of the online community |
| 00:00.51 | danderson | the admin contact information is entirely for the benefit of Google's open source team |
| 00:00.51 | noy | I'm only a deputy admin and I think our program's quality and community speaks for itself. |
| 00:01.09 | noy | Also, my work is in a field completely unrelated to computers. |
| 00:01.09 | danderson | so we can contact the point person in the org if something goes wrong |
| 00:01.30 | danderson | students might see mentor information, and even then only the name, nothing more |
| 00:01.35 | danderson | but not admin, afaik |
| 00:01.45 | Dark_Shikari | obviously noy is sarah palin. |
| 00:01.46 | Dark_Shikari | ducks |
| 00:01.52 | noy | Yeah, thats me |
| 00:01.57 | noy | How'd you guesS? |
| 00:02.01 | noy | guess8? |
| 00:02.09 | merwok | Good to know you're able to operate a computer. |
| 00:02.20 | noy | yeah, I've been having problems with that |
| 00:02.23 | noy | today |
| 00:02.43 | merwok | Can't say politicians here in France are up to snuff. |
| 00:02.59 | danderson | that said, by all means feel free to scrub your information if you prefer. As long as we (google) have an email and phone number (I think we ask for those? I'm not up to date on the form contents), and something we can call you by in those communications, we don't really care that much who you actually are |
| 00:03.35 | noy | yeah its required |
| 00:03.35 | merwok | They believe that "sending your hard drive" is ok to prove you didn't download illegal child terrorist porn. |
| 00:03.36 | danderson | You could call yourself spongebob squarepants for all the difference it'd make as far as I know. |
| 00:03.36 | noy | hah |
| 00:03.36 | danderson | (though that wouldn't seem terribly serious :) |
| 00:03.46 | merwok | (And the law is voted! *cries*) |
| 00:03.56 | noy | Well I'm not a privacy data zealot... |
| 00:04.08 | noy | just more conscious about my online profile |
| 00:04.32 | noy | partly because I know it can bite me back |
| 00:04.49 | noy | as I've seen others in my field suffer because of it |
| 00:05.03 | schumaml | what's this field? |
| 00:05.18 | noy | Foreign affairs and academics. |
| 00:05.20 | danderson | good thing too. Although general culture seems to be heading to a default of no privacy and adjusting to what that implies, it's good to be aware of what circulates. |
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| 00:05.49 | danderson | especially since the internet acts as a fairly decent eternal memory for some things |
| 00:06.13 | merwok | There are studies of the new phenomenon of people using real names on things like facebook. |
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| 00:06.30 | merwok | (instead of nicknames everywhere) |
| 00:06.36 | danderson | in fact, the best defense is to have the same name (first and last) as a canadian member of parliament, as well as multiple other people in the same field as you who are way more publicly visible |
| 00:06.49 | danderson | any search for information on me is drowned out in the noise :) |
| 00:07.02 | schumaml | it's an interesting, but horrifying insight that participating in something like gsoc could have negative repercussion in this field |
| 00:07.11 | danderson | (yes, you can probably stalk me very efficiently given slightly more than my name, but you get the tongue in cheek idea.) |
| 00:07.17 | noy | thats the thing, my last name is very easily searchable |
| 00:07.26 | ojwb | is reminded of http://c2.com/cgi-bin/wiki?GhostOfUsenetPostingsPast |
| 00:07.30 | Dark_Shikari | hah. you have nothing compared to mine. |
| 00:07.31 | Dark_Shikari | NOTHING. =p |
| 00:07.35 | noy | its an asiatic name that has partly been anglicized. |
| 00:07.49 | noy | and so its unique. |
| 00:07.53 | merwok | Dark_Shikari is Robert Smith. |
| 00:07.54 | danderson | on that topic, I recall a very funny project by some hacklab |
| 00:08.01 | Dark_Shikari | lol |
| 00:08.06 | Dark_Shikari | how about "Garrett-Glaser" |
| 00:08.10 | Dark_Shikari | try finding anyone else with that, I dare you. |
| 00:08.13 | Dark_Shikari | my brother doesn't count. |
| 00:08.15 | danderson | they built fake social networking software |
| 00:08.28 | ojwb | Dark_Shikari: your brother has the same name? |
| 00:08.29 | Dark_Shikari | ojwb: last name |
| 00:08.31 | Dark_Shikari | obviously |
| 00:08.36 | ojwb | ah! |
| 00:08.42 | danderson | which scours the internet for names (on eg. myspace, facebook etc.) and builds completely imaginary profiles for people with that name |
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| 00:09.03 | merwok | danderson, generating nonsense is fun. |
| 00:09.11 | danderson | random picture lifted from the internet, profile description built with a markov chain system, profile information randomly filled in |
| 00:09.16 | merwok | Ever heard about the scientific-sounding paper generator? |
| 00:09.16 | Dark_Shikari | danderson: sounds like mark v shaney |
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| 00:09.36 | danderson | and most importantly, random but believable social links (ie. exhibiting the same structure as real social networks) |
| 00:09.58 | ojwb | saw a scary demonstration of how to generate a list of names and addresses of people in the US who are likely to buy a copy of the Koran soon |
| 00:10.16 | merwok | Wut? |
| 00:10.24 | danderson | as a result, you have this software which can generate a complete parallel social graph, complete with simulated activity (people posting, commenting on each other's stuff...) |
| 00:10.30 | ojwb | essentially starting from amazon wishlists, and matching it up with yahoo's people directory |
| 00:10.40 | danderson | they were hoping things like search engines would get confused, as I understood it |
| 00:10.42 | noy | ojwb: you should see the systems that Amazon uses to predict buying behavior |
| 00:10.42 | merwok | Oh my. |
| 00:11.00 | martinhpedersen | is away (Disconnected from bouncer...) |
| 00:11.07 | noy | Its pretty slick. |
| 00:11.22 | ojwb | noy: and sometimes deeply amusing |
| 00:11.29 | danderson | recommendation engines in general are quite neat |
| 00:11.47 | danderson | same for other kinds of machine learning applied to prediction |
| 00:11.52 | noy | Then again, the recent economic meltdown has illustrated how badly quants are at predicting the market if it goes awry |
| 00:14.31 | danderson | that's the fun thing, prediction engines are fantastic at predicting what they've already observed |
| 00:14.43 | danderson | create a unique situation, and they'll happily predict themselves into the grave |
| 00:15.14 | ojwb | case in point: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8434115.stm#graph2 |
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| 00:16.06 | ojwb | martinhpedersen: please don't use auto-away messages in busy channels |
| 00:16.23 | ojwb | martinhpedersen: think what it would be like here if all 295 people here had one... |
| 00:16.46 | noy | There was an excellent series of interviews with Benoit Mandelbrot on the perfect market thesis |
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| 00:17.06 | noy | In the Financial times* |
| 00:17.32 | noy | It brings into question the theoretical foundation for much of these systems |
| 00:17.46 | pitz | a lot of it is junk science |
| 00:17.52 | pitz | most financial stuff is.. |
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| 00:21.46 | noy | Sorry I mean the "Efficient Market thesis" not the "perfect market thesis" |
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| 00:30.06 | sreich | !next |
| 00:30.06 | socinfo | "next" is March 29th -- student applications are then officially opened, but you can talk to participating organizations now already :) |
| 00:30.23 | sreich | gracias, senior |
| 00:33.26 | sreich | hm..actually, were the dates changed? |
| 00:33.51 | sreich | because for some reason I wrote on my calendar every date 1 week before what the timeline says |
| 00:34.04 | sreich | unless I was really, really tired that day ;-) |
| 00:34.17 | skbohra_ | seems you were |
| 00:34.29 | sreich | lol |
| 00:34.40 | skbohra_ | since dates havent changed |
| 00:35.03 | skbohra_ | better import gsoc calendar |
| 00:35.16 | sreich | :) |
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| 00:36.39 | ojwb | sreich: perhaps you looked at a previous year's timeline? |
| 00:36.54 | ojwb | better one week earlier than later though! |
| 00:36.56 | sreich | perhaps, I was wondering the same |
| 00:36.58 | sreich | yeah :) |
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| 00:38.36 | ab3 | hello |
| 00:40.13 | ab3 | is there someone here how did gsoc2009 that can tell me what the username of de website of citi bank debit card we recieved for the payments... |
| 00:40.24 | ab3 | I forgot my username, sow :) |
| 00:40.44 | ab3 | still have the passwd though :D |
| 00:40.53 | dennda | you chose it arbitrarily |
| 00:41.03 | dennda | afair |
| 00:47.37 | ab3 | k |
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| 01:22.01 | marti1125 | hello :D |
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| 01:23.57 | marti1125 | how speak spanish? |
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| 01:29.27 | Tan7188 | hola |
| 01:29.52 | marti1125 | hola :D |
| 01:29.56 | Tan7188 | :D |
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| 01:39.47 | marti1125 | how speak spanish? |
| 01:40.09 | merwok | I don't understand your question. |
| 01:40.39 | merwok | "how" is "como"; perhaps you're looking for "who" ("qui", I think) |
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| 01:43.03 | marti1125 | who speak spanish? |
| 01:43.11 | marti1125 | sorry merwok |
| 01:43.30 | merwok | No harm done, just want to help :) |
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| 01:49.28 | marti1125 | how can i apply to google code summer 2010 |
| 01:49.30 | marti1125 | xD |
| 01:49.59 | Raim | marti1125: start reading at http://socghop.appspot.com/ |
| 01:50.02 | merwok | Can you read the English docs like http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs and friends? |
| 01:50.07 | scorche|sh | !faq |
| 01:50.07 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs |
| 01:51.01 | marti1125 | thank you |
| 01:53.02 | robbyoconnor | people find this site just fine |
| 01:53.09 | robbyoconnor | but they can't find the FAQs? I call BS |
| 01:55.20 | sreich | you can't call BS on human stupidity, you'll find yourself quickly outnumbered ;-) |
| 01:55.39 | sreich | always hates it how people can't google/figure things out for themselves.. |
| 01:55.47 | sreich | too many people do that, too. |
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| 02:08.56 | ojwb | if only there was some sort of message shown when you joined the channel with a link to the faq... |
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| 03:36.17 | xnox | !orgs |
| 03:36.17 | socinfo | "orgs" is The list of accepted mentoring organizations is here: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
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| 05:48.42 | nitech | hi |
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| 07:17.32 | comodo | robbyoconnor: I think most people find the main sight, click a few links and go "whoa... that's a lot to read. I'll just ask in the channel instead." |
| 07:17.59 | comodo | :) |
| 07:18.04 | merwok | Conversely, I found the ToS quite brief. |
| 07:19.25 | comodo | merwok: me too. And also, I think you should be prepared to read a lot if you wanna take part in the programme... unless you already know everything in advance, in which case you should just get a job instead |
| 07:19.32 | spectie | :) |
| 07:19.34 | spectie | nn |
| 07:20.22 | merwok | Really, skipping the parts concerning mentors and the parts that will matter later (using the GSoC website e.g.) makes short texts. |
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| 07:20.49 | merwok | Well, I read all day long on my computer, so perhaps I have a biased notion of short :) |
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| 07:23.04 | comodo | I have a question for those of you who've participated before; how important are the requirements usually? |
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| 07:24.04 | ferringb | comodo: requirements? |
| 07:24.36 | comodo | I'm in my second year on uni, and so far I've done C, Java, worked in Unix-environments and read a lot of math and some programming language concepts. Since I don't do much programming on my spare time I find myself coming up short on most "ideas pages" I read |
| 07:24.58 | ferringb | ah, requirements in that sense |
| 07:25.15 | ferringb | comodo: intended degree out of curiosity? |
| 07:25.24 | ferringb | *curiousity.. screw you english. |
| 07:25.49 | comodo | ferringb: bachelor of computer science |
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| 07:26.08 | Live4Fun | hello, why joomla dont take part in gsoc? |
| 07:26.20 | kblin | Live4Fun: ask them? |
| 07:26.40 | comodo | ferringb: going for a master eventually, but it'll be another three years before I'm through with that :) |
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| 07:27.23 | Live4Fun | kblin: i has been asked them, they is dont answer... |
| 07:27.30 | rod | hello! |
| 07:27.49 | comodo | Is gsoc considered mainly an opportunity to learn, or should I be able to produce when I join in? |
| 07:27.56 | ferringb | both, imo |
| 07:28.06 | kblin | Live4Fun: did they apply at all this year? |
| 07:28.27 | merwok | Depending on the project difficulty, you can produce with more or less learning. |
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| 07:28.30 | ferringb | comodo: aka, measurable gain at the end for the organization, candidate gets a paycheck, experience, and a notch on the resume ;) |
| 07:28.39 | Catfish_Man | comodo: most of the projects represent fairly significant amounts of programming, so someone completely new to the field would likely be out of their depth |
| 07:28.47 | ferringb | yep |
| 07:28.50 | Catfish_Man | but everyone can learn :) |
| 07:29.09 | rod | I am looking to try gsoc out as well, most projects seem 'out of reach' |
| 07:29.53 | Catfish_Man | rod: one good approach there is to get involved with the project outside of gsoc, and begin learning the necessary skills that way |
| 07:29.57 | Catfish_Man | then try for gsoc the next year |
| 07:30.24 | comodo | see, I'm okay with the programming. I mean, learning a new language would take me a little time, but I should be able to hack it. What I'm worried about is the requirements about knowledge of specific systems or parts of systems |
| 07:30.36 | ferringb | comodo: if I were you, I'd pick out some projects that looked interesting and sort of within reach... then talk to the folk involved to get an accurate assessment of what is needed |
| 07:30.39 | Live4Fun | kblin: i found list of ideas, but in gsoc site joomla dont included.. http://docs.joomla.org/Summer_of_Code_2010_Project_Ideas |
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| 07:31.23 | ferringb | comodo: part of what the mentor is for is access to that expertise... doesn't mean you can skip learning the systems involved, but means you've got someone to ask when something just isn't clicking |
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| 07:32.45 | Catfish_Man | comodo: what we found with adium was that a) accepting students for projects that required project-wide changes was risky, and b) accepting students that didn't know objective-c was almost never a good idea. Language + API + Adium codebase is just too much to learn |
| 07:32.54 | ferringb | heh |
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| 07:33.03 | Catfish_Man | so we tended to accept students that knew objc, but not adium, and proposed projects that were fairly self-contained |
| 07:33.26 | ferringb | would be weary of a candidate having to touch multiple things w/in a project anyways |
| 07:33.36 | ferringb | at least for gentoo, that's a lot of toes that can be stepped on |
| 07:33.39 | Catfish_Man | hehe |
| 07:33.48 | ferringb | thus wanging up the timeline something fierce |
| 07:34.12 | rod | comodo: which org were you interested in |
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| 07:36.42 | ferringb | Catfish_Man: so... got whiskers and pretty fricking ugly, or just really really like catfish? ;) |
| 07:36.58 | Catfish_Man | ferringb: none of the above. It's from a surreal dream a friend had many years ago |
| 07:37.09 | Catfish_Man | involving rammstein, catfish, and infinite empty spaces |
| 07:37.10 | ferringb | ah. yeah, kind of an odd nick, hence the poke |
| 07:37.30 | Live4Fun | kblin: it s very bad(( http://community.joomla.org/blogs/community/1135-no-gsoc-this-year.html |
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| 07:37.39 | ferringb | sounds like mach's principle... |
| 07:38.08 | ferringb | (spinning catfish, rammstein blearing, empty universe...) |
| 07:38.13 | ferringb | *blaring |
| 07:39.30 | kblin | Live4Fun: hm, I can only speculate, but I understand that lots of CMS projects apply every year |
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| 07:39.55 | kblin | it could be that the GSoC folks decided to give some new project a chance this year |
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| 07:41.52 | Live4Fun | i think in joomla ideas of 2010 a lot of good things. |
| 07:45.05 | kblin | well, lots of competition in the CMS market, I think |
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| 09:12.21 | ihalip | 8192 members in the google-summer-of-code-discuss group |
| 09:13.01 | ihalip | there's a joke - a novice programmers thinks 1 KB = 1000 bytes, and an old programmer thinks 1 Km = 1024 meters |
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| 09:28.08 | kendle | ne one here |
| 09:28.59 | kendle | how to submit new project ideas |
| 09:29.00 | kendle | ?? |
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| 09:30.05 | kendle | to gsoc |
| 09:32.37 | danderson | !next |
| 09:32.37 | socinfo | "next" is March 29th -- student applications are then officially opened, but you can talk to participating organizations now already :) |
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| 10:09.14 | ojwb | kendle: talk to the org you want to submit the project idea to |
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| 10:26.52 | Mkools | hello their I wanted to participate in chromium-os as student. Is it possible? |
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| 10:30.49 | vyas021 | any buddy here for hardware+software project in beagle GSoc? |
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| 10:36.34 | franktango | vyas021: I am here but new to GSOC... just registered as mentor for BeaglBoard.org project |
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| 10:37.46 | vyas021 | franktango: great |
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| 10:39.02 | vyas021 | franktango: but in this time i want to participate in GSoC as a student |
| 10:40.49 | franktango | vyas021: you are welcome and as far as I know the application period is ongoing |
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| 10:43.07 | vyas021 | franktango: yes, |
| 10:43.35 | Mkools | + |
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| 10:43.52 | Mkools | Can some one please shed lights on chromium-os |
| 10:44.13 | franktango | vyas021: just looked up the timeline. Official student application period opens March 29th. Until then just discussions... |
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| 10:47.59 | vyas021 | franktango: yes, you are right! this is time for research and for discussion |
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| 10:49.51 | vyas021 | franktango: sir, in which filed you are registered in beagleboard.org , hardware+software ? |
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| 11:27.42 | franktango | vyas021: I'm not assigned to any project/area yet. I usually prefer software but I can also help in some hardware cases. |
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| 11:38.23 | gitte | SRabbelier: seems you got yourself a star... (I am talking about Ram) |
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| 12:26.26 | skbohra_ | strange that few orgs are yet to fill their organization profile |
| 12:26.45 | skbohra_ | though, may be due to weekend |
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| 12:28.30 | gitte | skbohra_: could also be that they are unaware that they should do so. |
| 12:29.52 | skbohra_ | gitte: that would be pathetic then |
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| 12:35.10 | infinity0 | it's because it's the weekend |
| 12:35.40 | infinity0 | well, for us we only have one admin and he doesn't work on weekends |
| 12:38.44 | gitte | skbohra_: maybe you heard of people having some life outside of computers? ;-) |
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| 12:39.48 | skbohra_ | gitte: have met too :P |
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| 13:20.05 | *** topic/#gsoc is Google Summer of Code 2010 is On! - Mentoring Orgs are announced at http://tinyurl.com/yj42nqw! - File Feature Requests & Bugs at http://bit.ly/a5tD87 - Read the FAQs: http://bit.ly/9q41Ey - Consider Hosting a GSoC Info Session: http://bit.ly/amIwdd - We need flyer and presentations translations, videos too! |
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| 13:23.17 | podfree | I would like to do a project on codecs and so where can i find the mentoring organisations for this project. |
| 13:24.04 | anth_x | !orgs |
| 13:24.05 | socinfo | "orgs" is The list of accepted mentoring organizations is here: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
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| 13:24.57 | anth_x | there are a few (2?) tagged "codecs". others might be interested; check out the list. |
| 13:26.22 | anth_x | if you're interested in the low-level codec development (as opposed to porting or whatnot), the tagged two do seem the most likely bets. |
| 13:28.11 | gitte | podfree: audio or video? |
| 13:28.33 | podfree | gitte: video |
| 13:28.39 | SRabbelier | gitte: indeed! |
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| 13:30.47 | gitte | podfree: if it is C, I'd suggest FFMPEG, GStreamer or VideoLAN, for Java I'd suggest SIP communicator. |
| 13:30.57 | gitte | SRabbelier: proud o' ya, young grasshopper. |
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| 13:31.48 | SRabbelier | gitte: I'm glad to have someone with so much dedication :) |
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| 13:34.12 | SRabbelier | perhaps Melange needs a banner |
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| 13:34.26 | SRabbelier | "If you do not understand what to do/how something works, _read the documentation_." |
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| 13:52.52 | comodo | rod: sorry for not answering in a while. I haven't decided which org interests me the most, but I'm curious about most having to do with linux. |
| 13:53.30 | comodo | rod: I'm hoping to get an opportunity to poke around and learn more about the inner works of linux in general :) |
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| 13:59.03 | AshishG | is checking is he is still connected |
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| 14:02.28 | spectie | !timeline |
| 14:02.28 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline |
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| 14:28.10 | kblin | amazing |
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| 14:29.00 | drt24 | ? |
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| 14:29.58 | tclarke | any google people around who can answer a GSoC policy question? |
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| 14:30.38 | Chetan | maybe i can ... |
| 14:30.40 | danderso1 | tclarke: yes? |
| 14:30.48 | Chetan | *but i m not frm google :P |
| 14:31.16 | tclarke | the faq mentions that students can't work as a team....question is |
| 14:31.44 | tclarke | we have a couple of students showing interest in our org and initially asked if they can work as a team |
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| 14:31.55 | tclarke | we pointed them to the faq and said no |
| 14:32.14 | tclarke | they've now said one of them is going to apply but they will still be working as a team |
| 14:32.21 | danderson | reject them. |
| 14:32.47 | danderson | they're being purposefully dishonest after being told that they couldn't do something |
| 14:33.00 | danderson | that reflects fairly badly on their ethics in general |
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| 14:33.26 | summatusmentis | if they're stating it, it's not dishonest. It does sound like they're trying to get around the system though |
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| 14:34.05 | danderson | it's dishonest because they are willingly violating the rules of a program, and cannot profess ignorance of said rules |
| 14:34.17 | summatusmentis | granted |
| 14:34.20 | tclarke | the faq uses weasel words stating that collaboration is ok, but teams arent'....this seemed more like what you're suggesting....purposely trying to get around the rule |
| 14:34.48 | danderson | tclarke: by that, we meant "obviously, you're going to work *with* an open source community, so you can't work in complete isolation" |
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| 14:35.08 | loupgaroublond | tclarke, there's precedent for multiple students working on the same project so obviously they need to collaborate and work as a team, but each to do their own particular task |
| 14:35.12 | tclarke | that was my thought....just wanted someone else's perspective...thanks for the info |
| 14:35.24 | danderson | but in the end, you as the mentor have to be able to say "Student X was responsible for the work on Project A" |
| 14:35.33 | loupgaroublond | but your gsoc project is for a single student, not a team of students |
| 14:36.11 | danderson | if they work as a team, you have no visibility into who is doing what, it complicates mentor/student relations, and you then run into all sorts of "can we have two t-shirts?" fun |
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| 14:36.47 | danderson | it also shows a fairly mercenary attitude from the students imho |
| 14:37.27 | kblin | yeah |
| 14:37.41 | danderson | they're clearly in it for the money rather than the experience (since they'll only be getting one certificate etc. if they succeed), I would question the wisdom of picking them given that it's 99% certain they'll disappear after GSoC |
| 14:38.18 | danderson | tclarke: another option you could look into |
| 14:38.27 | danderson | can the project be divided into two clearly separate subprojects? |
| 14:38.48 | tclarke | it's possible...they asked about that |
| 14:38.54 | danderson | if so, you could offer each one to apply separately for an individual subproject |
| 14:39.02 | kstreith | i'm the org admin for the org that tclarke is involved in |
| 14:39.10 | kstreith | currently, we requested 1 student slot |
| 14:39.12 | danderson | they would work "together" in a sense, but the mentors would have clear areas of responsibility for each student |
| 14:39.17 | tclarke | it's our first year as a mentoring org and we're a small project so we were worried about work load on the mentors with 2 students this year |
| 14:39.23 | danderson | ah |
| 14:39.25 | kstreith | is that atypical, we worried about asking for 2 slots |
| 14:39.26 | danderson | that makes sense. |
| 14:39.30 | danderson | which org if I may ask? |
| 14:39.34 | kstreith | opticks |
| 14:39.42 | kstreith | we only have 2 committed mentors at the moment |
| 14:39.43 | kblin | kstreith: how can you know how many slots you want before getting the applications? |
| 14:39.44 | infinity0 | why is collaboration disallowed? |
| 14:39.56 | loupgaroublond | tclarke, my rule of thumb is that a mentor shouldn't be doing more than 5 hours of work a week in regards to mentoring, with exceptions of course |
| 14:40.10 | loupgaroublond | kstreith, ^^ |
| 14:40.30 | gitte | infinity0: think about it. One student fails, what happens to the other? |
| 14:40.38 | kstreith | we have to pick a number of slots |
| 14:40.43 | danderson | infinity0: discourages mercenaries, levels the playing field, reduces complexity, reduces management overhead for Google |
| 14:40.49 | kblin | kstreith: but not yet :) |
| 14:40.51 | infinity0 | gitte: depends on what they do surely? |
| 14:40.55 | kstreith | that was required once we were accepted as mentoring org |
| 14:41.07 | kblin | kstreith: yeah. I left 0 in there for now |
| 14:41.16 | kstreith | ok, didn't know that was an option |
| 14:41.17 | kblin | kstreith: don't worry about that at the moment |
| 14:41.19 | gitte | infinity0: we are talking about close collaboration, no? So I do not understand your latest question. |
| 14:41.45 | gitte | kstreith: you only have to commit to a number of slots you ask for later, I hear. |
| 14:41.58 | kstreith | ok, that's good to know |
| 14:42.03 | kstreith | i'll update us to zero then |
| 14:42.06 | danderson | kstreith: yeah, you can adjust number of slots |
| 14:42.14 | drt24 | if they both commit as different users then it should be fairly easy to see who did what. |
| 14:42.15 | kblin | kstreith: yeah, this'll get intersting after all the student applications have come in |
| 14:42.18 | infinity0 | i don't see the "mercernaries" argument, an individual is just as likely to bail after the program as a pair |
| 14:42.33 | kstreith | and that be enough to encourage this team of 2 to submit individual applications |
| 14:42.35 | infinity0 | as for close collaboration well it depends on the actual details of the proposal |
| 14:42.48 | kblin | infinity0: but they're clearly in it for the money, after all what will you do with half a certificate and half a t-shirt? |
| 14:42.54 | mmadia_haiku | Are the mentoring org homepages from 2009 available? |
| 14:43.02 | danderson | infinity0: groups are following the "if we team up, our application will look more impressive and we're more likely to get the cash" logic |
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| 14:43.08 | infinity0 | oh right |
| 14:43.08 | danderson | that's what I meant by mercenary. |
| 14:43.10 | gitte | infinity0: did you stop to think about the _consequences_ of the bail on the other? A single second, maybe? |
| 14:43.13 | drt24 | kblin: they could just be in it for the fun of doing it and because they like the project though... |
| 14:43.14 | tclarke | from speaking with them, they are both students at the same uni and both recently finished a class which deals with the work our project targets and they are both excited about the field now |
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| 14:43.33 | tclarke | I'm not sure it's entirely about the money, but I'm sure that's part of it |
| 14:43.39 | infinity0 | danderson: well that scenario is bad, but i meant 2 slots for 1 proposal that's twice as big as normal ones |
| 14:43.46 | drt24 | and not really care about the certificate or the tshirt or really the money |
| 14:43.55 | gitte | tclarke: actually, if they apply as one student, but still work as a team, I rather doubt they're in for the money. |
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| 14:44.05 | danderson | drt24: then don't do SoC and go contribute to an open source org directly :) |
| 14:44.16 | infinity0 | if they've already decided to work as a pair then it's a private matter if one of them bails |
| 14:44.18 | drt24 | ;-) |
| 14:44.18 | Waren | yo |
| 14:44.23 | danderson | gitte: they'll just split it when they receive it |
| 14:44.29 | gitte | infinity0: consequences! |
| 14:44.34 | danderson | and because they have twice the manpower, they'll be able to outclass a single candidate |
| 14:44.37 | danderson | -> bad. |
| 14:44.38 | drt24 | not making a loss during the summer is nice |
| 14:44.44 | gitte | infinity0: not only on the other, also on the mentor, the organization, Google. Think it through!!! |
| 14:44.49 | drt24 | danderson: yes that is very good point |
| 14:45.00 | infinity0 | gitte: yes consequences, but not likely, they are about the same as if one individual bails |
| 14:45.12 | gitte | danderson: they only get half the money -> no mercenaries |
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| 14:45.47 | gitte | infinity0: no, because the project is bigger, and the other student will fail automatically -> more things not done -> worse |
| 14:46.01 | kblin | gitte: you're more likely to get the job done, I guess |
| 14:46.03 | infinity0 | that's extrapolating though |
| 14:46.06 | danderson | gitte: but they're sure to get half of it, vs. a lower probability of getting more if they apply alone |
| 14:46.08 | gitte | infinity0: if you don't believe that, I saw it happen. One student did not perform, the other got stuck, the whole (nice) project failed. Bad. |
| 14:46.12 | danderson | game theory etc. |
| 14:47.06 | kblin | anyway, gsoc is about individual students participating |
| 14:47.06 | infinity0 | well, it depends on the proposal gitte |
| 14:47.43 | kblin | if I go to a sports turnament as a single athlete, I can't bring in a second person either |
| 14:48.00 | infinity0 | yeah but gsoc isn't a competition |
| 14:48.10 | infinity0 | well the actual work port |
| 14:48.12 | infinity0 | part* |
| 14:48.33 | kblin | infinity0: for a job it's the same |
| 14:48.57 | kblin | I can't just go and sign a work contract and then send in my buddy to work for me half of the time |
| 14:48.59 | gitte | kblin: if you are used to do all the stuff yourself, you are likely to see your part finished at the end. I saw that happen several times now. Makes me think whether I should mentor again, tbh |
| 14:49.28 | kblin | gitte: that as well |
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| 14:49.36 | gitte | kblin: by "your part finished" I mean "say bubye and never come back" |
| 14:49.57 | gitte | kblin: by "your part finished" I mean "say bubye and never come back" |
| 14:50.06 | gitte | kblin: oops, wrong key. |
| 14:50.15 | kblin | oh? |
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| 14:50.52 | kblin | true, interaction with the community is important |
| 14:51.06 | gitte | kblin: yes. Their part was their responsibility. They never got the hang of the community. |
| 14:51.14 | infinity0 | retain rates are to be expected to be low anyway, same with any short job that involves money |
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| 14:51.41 | kblin | I probably wouldn't have stayed with Wine if a couple of months after I finally got my code in, people hadn't contacted me about building on the code some more |
| 14:52.19 | kblin | infinity0: but to be honest that's pretty much all I care about with my mentor hat on :) |
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| 14:52.26 | infinity0 | right, me too |
| 14:52.35 | gitte | infinity0: I am not a fan of being content with the status quo. So don't status quo me. |
| 14:52.36 | kblin | it's a wager and the chances of success are slim, but still |
| 14:53.08 | infinity0 | gitte: lol that wasn't my intention |
| 14:53.22 | infinity0 | my point was "there needs to be extra things to persuade people to stay" |
| 14:53.49 | infinity0 | (i dunno what yet) |
| 14:54.07 | infinity0 | but given the current structure of gsoc the retain rates aren't exactly unexpected |
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| 15:09.25 | kblin | I still think having to create a home document is kind of unintuitive to most admins, and that's the actual problem |
| 15:10.16 | danderson | infinity0: sticking around after GSoC eventually landed me a job at Google |
| 15:10.19 | danderson | is that incentive enough? :P |
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| 15:10.50 | danderson | (warning: results not typical, mileage may vary, always follow doctor's instructions, do not heat or swallow) |
| 15:10.56 | infinity0 | hehe |
| 15:11.01 | tclarke | danderson: you work primarily on GSoC or do you work other projects as well? |
| 15:11.03 | infinity0 | which project were you? |
| 15:11.16 | tclarke | we've got a former project member/co-worker who is at google now |
| 15:11.30 | tclarke | think he works in the google toolbar group |
| 15:11.46 | danderson | tclarke: initially I worked on project hosting (code.google.com/hosting), now I'm in search infrastructure, and soon moving back to project hosting |
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| 15:12.35 | loupgaroublond | infinity0, we've had students get hired by red hat and students who went off and formed a startup with the project they worked on |
| 15:12.41 | loupgaroublond | again, ymmv |
| 15:13.10 | kblin | I've landed a couple of well-paid contracting gigs due to my GSoC work |
| 15:13.17 | danderson | infinity0: see above |
| 15:13.30 | kblin | I don't think that's too unusual if you stick with your project :) |
| 15:13.57 | danderson | I also had another company who basically gave me an insta-hire offer based on the "I did GSoC" line of my resume (very little other professional experience at the time) |
| 15:14.17 | danderson | so, GSoC has advantages if you stick to it |
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| 15:14.40 | infinity0 | right, gsoc is useful for getting a job defs, but weren't we talking about actually sticking with the open source org? |
| 15:14.41 | danderson | oh, also: open source is a fairly small world, there's a good chance the people you're collaborating with work at interesting places, and that those places are hiring |
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| 15:15.05 | infinity0 | for our project (freenet) retention rates for the past few years were about 1 in 5 i think, including myself from last year |
| 15:15.08 | danderson | so, stick around and make yourself useful, that's already a couple of free recommendations for cool companies |
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| 15:16.00 | infinity0 | do you guys have overall stats? |
| 15:16.06 | DrJoel | I didn't want to spam the mailing list. But I have filled out the RTEMS org profile and we aren't in the 11. Is someone online who can tell me what is wrong? |
| 15:16.17 | DrJoel | I am sure it must be something I missed. |
| 15:16.30 | danderson | DrJoel: #melange is more likely to know, it has the app devs |
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| 15:16.43 | kblin | DrJoel: how do you know you aren't in the 11? |
| 15:16.48 | danderson | infinity0: unfortunately not, retention post-SoC is not something we track |
| 15:16.50 | gitte | DrJoel: I refreshed after a couple of minutes, and the issue was gone |
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| 15:17.04 | danderson | but, informally, most orgs agree that it's regrettably low, except for superstar students |
| 15:17.20 | kblin | I mean the link to the ideas list worked for me after filling in a link to the ideas list in the profile, right away |
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| 15:17.39 | ojwb | DrJoel: I think lh is confused, I see org profile NOT filled in for 9 |
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| 15:18.10 | DrJoel | ojwb: Ahhhh.. that makes more sense. :-D I filled it in within an hour of the acceptance email |
| 15:18.11 | TuomasT | How are national income taxes handled with gsoc? |
| 15:18.12 | ojwb | at some point in the last week, the two lists swapped around, which might explain her confusion |
| 15:18.30 | TuomasT | Is it like (5000-500) minus taxes? |
| 15:18.46 | ojwb | 5000 minus taxes |
| 15:18.55 | ojwb | student stipend is 5000 this year |
| 15:19.00 | DrJoel | TuomasT: I don't think any withholding is done. You are responsible for saving the money .. but check the FAQ |
| 15:19.18 | TuomasT | DrJoel: I did, found nothing, Perhaps it was the wrong FAQ |
| 15:19.23 | kblin | ojwb: it is? |
| 15:19.42 | kblin | why the heck am I mentoring? ;) |
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| 15:19.44 | TuomasT | DrJoel: "Responsible for saving the money" .. are you talking about the responsibilites of the mentors |
| 15:19.53 | infinity0 | lol kblin, i thought the same thing :p |
| 15:20.02 | ojwb | kblin: well, that's what Chris DiBona said, and i believe the faq agrees |
| 15:20.15 | DrJoel | TuomasT: students.. mentor money goes to org and it is their issue from that point |
| 15:20.37 | kblin | hm |
| 15:20.43 | TuomasT | DrJoel: Did you mean it like "responsible for paying taxes yourself" ? |
| 15:20.55 | kblin | I think I liked the page I got without filling in a home page document in melange better |
| 15:21.03 | kblin | it listed all the contact details and whatnot |
| 15:21.17 | DrJoel | TuomasT: Yes. My understanding is you get $5K and you are responsible for saving whatever portion of that you will owe in taxes |
| 15:21.20 | downeym | danderson & kblin: We were able to hire one of our GSoC students from 2008 as a full-time developer, so it *is* possible to have long-term payoff. |
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| 15:21.40 | danderson | downeym: yup, that was my argument. |
| 15:21.57 | danderson | cumulatively, GSoC 2005 got me 3 internships and one fulltime job |
| 15:22.11 | danderson | (of course, other things helped, but given a simplified view) |
| 15:22.28 | downeym | danderson: yes, not a guarantee but it certainly brings a lot of opportunity if students work hard |
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| 15:22.46 | kblin | man, melange is ultra-slow again today |
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| 15:23.26 | infinity0 | of course it's possible, and i agree gsoc is great for rewarding involvement in open source projects |
| 15:23.30 | kblin | okay... now the link to our ideas list is gone |
| 15:23.36 | kblin | that is just weird |
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| 15:23.56 | infinity0 | for the orgs' pov though, i think most people that stay already had some intention of working with the org, as opposed to entirely new people being brought in that wouldn't otherwise have been (without gsoc) |
| 15:23.59 | kblin | it was on there before, I'm sure |
| 15:24.11 | kblin | infinity0: I disagree |
| 15:24.28 | kblin | without gsoc, I wouldn't have been involved in Wine or Samba |
| 15:24.41 | DrJoel | which org kblin? The top list has ours and looks pretty full |
| 15:24.52 | kblin | DrJoel: Samba |
| 15:24.56 | ojwb | kblin: what about worldforge? |
| 15:24.56 | downeym | infinity0: If I had to guess, most students that approach us never heard of us before :) |
| 15:25.05 | infinity0 | heh we can argue this all day but really we need overall data kblin, but it's cool that it worked for you |
| 15:25.08 | infinity0 | oh, ok, hmm |
| 15:25.19 | downeym | infinity0: but each org is different based on what kind of app(s) they make |
| 15:25.33 | DrJoel | kblin: I see a link but I don't think it is right: http://wiki.samba.org/index.php/SoC/Ideas#Add_remote_.28RPC.29_support_for_Samba_configuration |
| 15:25.34 | kblin | ojwb: I was involved with WF before, as an artist and world designer |
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| 15:25.53 | kblin | DrJoel: yeah, I just fixed that to not show the anchor part |
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| 15:25.54 | ojwb | kblin: ah, so you had some open source exposure before |
| 15:26.06 | infinity0 | hm, any chance google could do a post-gsoc survey on this sort of thing? |
| 15:26.07 | kblin | silly pasto while filling out the form, I guess |
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| 15:26.35 | DrJoel | kblin: yep. Looks good now. |
| 15:26.40 | kblin | DrJoel: but I'm certain the link was on http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/org/show/google/gsoc2010/samba before, and now I can't see it there |
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| 15:27.07 | kblin | ojwb: not as a programmer, though |
| 15:27.51 | kblin | ojwb: and and anyway, infinity0's point was about orgs, not about OpenSource in general |
| 15:27.53 | DrJoel | kblin: it is WAY down at the bottom. This needs to be filed as a melange bug. That link should be WAY before the student application template |
| 15:28.06 | infinity0 | downeym: "most students that approach us never heard of us before" -- what about students that stay with you? |
| 15:28.13 | kblin | DrJoel: ahrg, yeah, silly me |
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| 15:28.29 | kblin | DrJoel: thanks for pointing that out |
| 15:28.32 | ojwb | kblin: yes, I wasn't arguing, just interested really |
| 15:28.35 | ojwb | and waiting for a compile |
| 15:28.35 | downeym | infinity0: Probably the same, but I don't have any specific data to prove it :) |
| 15:28.37 | DrJoel | not silly.. if we have trouble finding it, what do you expect of a student? I think it is poorly placed. |
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| 15:28.58 | kblin | DrJoel: I agree |
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| 15:30.50 | kblin | DrJoel: but I'm currently spending my day trying to track invisible folders on our win2k3 DC, I was beginning to doubt my eyes are working today |
| 15:32.02 | kblin | DrJoel: interesting, there's many empty lines on the bottom of our application template |
| 15:32.17 | kblin | DrJoel: and everytime I update the profile, they seem to get more |
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| 15:32.53 | DrJoel | kblin: LOL .. perhaps a bug report .. I will file one to melange |
| 15:33.08 | ojwb | is melange still using tinymce? |
| 15:33.16 | ojwb | that seemed to be a source of formatting fun last year |
| 15:33.18 | kblin | hey, wait |
| 15:33.29 | kblin | _all_ the newlines seem to grow |
| 15:34.37 | kblin | ok, on my last save, I had to delete 25 newlines at the end of the file, now it was 60 |
| 15:37.03 | straydawg | DrJoel: hey, nice to see you on irc (ben from minix here) |
| 15:37.22 | kblin | DrJoel: ok, a lot of deleting newlines later, the page is useable again: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/org/show/google/gsoc2010/samba |
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| 15:38.52 | Ivanovic | kblin: looks like for every paragraph newlines are added when reopening the form |
| 15:39.00 | kblin | yeah |
| 15:39.58 | Ivanovic | and now have a look at the amount of newlines on the wesnoth page: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/org/show/google/gsoc2010/wesnoth |
| 15:40.09 | Ivanovic | that is a lot of newlines to remove when updating anything... |
| 15:40.38 | kblin | Ivanovic: similar for samba |
| 15:40.48 | downeym | kblin: Editing that HTML is a pain :) |
| 15:40.54 | kblin | I had a fun few minutes with my backspace key right now |
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| 15:41.17 | kblin | downeym: I'd prefer that over a crap editor inserting newlines every time it opens a page and I update something unrelated |
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| 15:42.01 | Ivanovic | yeah, plain html is a lot easier to use and make the format work nicely |
| 15:42.22 | downeym | kblin: yeah, that's what i mean :) |
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| 15:42.39 | drt24 | copy and paste into $editor, edit, s/\n\n/\n/, paste back? |
| 15:43.22 | Ivanovic | drt24: no, does not work |
| 15:43.30 | drt24 | :-( |
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| 15:43.34 | Ivanovic | since when copying over to the text editor the google markup stuff is lost |
| 15:43.52 | Ivanovic | thus you would have to open the html view and remove all empty <p></p> |
| 15:43.55 | drt24 | yeah, that would break it. |
| 15:44.12 | Ivanovic | anyway, i am off for some hours, cu |
| 15:44.52 | kblin | there's no "html view" in the editor either :) |
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| 15:55.03 | DrJoel | straydawg: Are you guys getting a lot of interested students? |
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| 15:55.24 | straydawg | DrJoel: not overrun yet, but a few |
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| 15:55.50 | straydawg | DrJoel: the channel and mailing list are noticeably more active, so that's good :) |
| 15:56.01 | straydawg | DrJoel: and you? |
| 15:56.07 | DrJoel | same here. We have had at least 5 students already complete the required project. |
| 15:56.12 | straydawg | oh wow |
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| 15:56.53 | DrJoel | straydawg: what shape is the minix sata driver in? We have a student wanting to improve our old ATA driver and I mentioned that as a possible source |
| 15:56.58 | straydawg | checks the rtems gsoc pages |
| 15:57.22 | straydawg | DrJoel: it's OK, but uses the regular ata (ide) protocol to talk to the sata drive, not ahci |
| 15:57.29 | straydawg | DrJoel: we have no ahci support |
| 15:57.40 | smtms | really?! |
| 15:57.48 | straydawg | y..es |
| 15:58.39 | vaibhavg | any one is working on pidgin |
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| 15:59.11 | Ian_Corne | probably :p |
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| 15:59.59 | straydawg | DrJoel: i like your gsoc filter test |
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| 16:00.05 | straydawg | (the joel's hello world test) |
| 16:01.33 | DrJoel | straydawg: It is just enough to ensure they can compile RTEMS and run on a simulator. Really not hard. But proves the development environment works and gets it out of the way. One potential student has already done it targeting sparc, powerpc and x86. Ran it on his eeePC |
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| 16:03.22 | straydawg | DrJoel: ok i get it |
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| 16:06.18 | anth_x | can i assume "Slots desired" won't be referenced until slot allocation time (that is: after student applications happen)? |
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| 16:08.16 | DrJoel | straydawg: do you guys have a gating project? |
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| 16:09.41 | RoAk | hey all I was wondering if I would be eligible to participate in the GSoC in case Im registered to a US School, but I'll residing in another country throughout the summer? |
| 16:10.44 | smtms | RoAk, it's ok, but it can complicate tax- and visa-related stuff |
| 16:10.51 | danderson | you'll need permission to work in whatever country you are |
| 16:10.59 | danderson | (I think - ask lh) |
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| 16:11.24 | RoAk | danderson, well Im in the US as an International Student so Im coming back to my homecontry for the summer |
| 16:11.31 | RoAk | so I guess I wont have any problems with that :) |
| 16:11.42 | danderson | RoAk: the international student visa may also give you problems |
| 16:11.52 | danderson | it could have some weird conditions on working |
| 16:12.11 | danderson | I suggest checking with your university, they usually know these sort of things for international students |
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| 16:12.39 | RoAk | danderson, yeah I actually just came back from there and I either can stay in the US with CPT, or I was planing to come back for the summer to Peru |
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| 16:13.22 | RoAk | that's why I was asking if I was still eligible to participate in case I was registered to a US school, but going back to homecountry for the summer (and summer would be the whole time of the GSoC) |
| 16:13.44 | danderson | you're eligible in both cases |
| 16:13.52 | danderson | but you need to figure out how/if it affects your US visa |
| 16:14.12 | danderson | if you stay in the US, I'm pretty sure the visa doesn't allow you to work |
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| 16:14.32 | danderson | if you leave, I don't know, you should check (with your university's international student office or similar) |
| 16:15.29 | RoAk | danderson, well if i stay i need to get work authorization (CPT or OPT). If I go home, no taxing/visa problems |
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| 16:16.14 | danderson | RoAk: if you're certain, then that's fine. Just be careful, visas are a pain if you accidentally violate their terms |
| 16:17.18 | RoAk | danderson, yeah. Well and it is ok, because if I apply to the GSoC that Im, residing outside the US for the duration of the program, that means that if I get accepted, I will get payed in my homecountry, and that will not incur in any visa/taxation problems with the US |
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| 16:17.52 | RoAk | since I will be taking summer off |
| 16:17.58 | danderson | like I said, as long as you're certain, that's fine. |
| 16:18.15 | danderson | I'm not an expert on visa conditions, I'm just telling you to be sure of what you're doing. If you are sure, then fine. |
| 16:18.56 | RoAk | ok cool |
| 16:18.57 | RoAk | tanks :) |
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| 16:22.04 | x` | hello hello hello |
| 16:22.23 | x` | how we all doing |
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| 16:45.00 | kimelto | morning! |
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| 16:56.38 | martinhpedersen | is away (Disconnected from bouncer...) |
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| 16:58.52 | iamsumesh | Hi Everyone. |
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| 17:00.27 | martinhpedersen | is away (Disconnected from bouncer...) |
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| 17:01.22 | Catfish_Man | hm, to temp ban martinhpedersen or not... |
| 17:02.08 | *** kick/#gsoc [martinhpedersen!~dave@atlas.natulte.net] by danderson (Please disable verbose away notifications on your IRC bouncer) |
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| 17:02.13 | *** mode/#gsoc [+b *!*labatec@*.80-202-193.nextgentel.com] by danderson |
| 17:02.38 | danderson | martinhpedersen: once the verbose spam is disabled, feel free to ping me in private, and I'll unban. |
| 17:02.45 | danderson | Catfish_Man: good call. |
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| 17:03.21 | Catfish_Man | martinhpedersen: good shot, but you might want to reverse the info-kick ordering next time ;) |
| 17:03.29 | Catfish_Man | er, dammit. That was meant to be to danderson |
| 17:04.20 | sfb | Sorry. |
| 17:04.21 | danderson | Catfish_Man: since his bouncer auto-rejoins, the next best thing after a kick is a ban without kick: it just prevents extra spam, but still leaves the message from me visible |
| 17:04.41 | Catfish_Man | oh I see, he rejoined |
| 17:04.43 | Catfish_Man | missed that |
| 17:04.44 | Catfish_Man | carry on :) |
| 17:04.57 | danderson | actually, the perfect solution would be a quiet without a ban |
| 17:05.07 | danderson | but I can't remember how to do that on freenode's fancy new ircd |
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| 17:49.03 | *** mode/#gsoc [-b *!*labatec@*.80-202-193.nextgentel.com] by danderson |
| 17:49.12 | Srishti | hi |
| 17:49.19 | danderson | martinhpedersen: thanks for disabling the verbose stuff, and sorry about the heavy-handed reaction :) |
| 17:49.28 | HosHang | hi |
| 17:49.48 | martinhpedersen | Hehe, np I understand ;) |
| 17:50.14 | ajuonline | is watching "The Matrix" again |
| 17:50.24 | ajuonline | looks at Mr. Anderson innocently :P |
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| 17:51.50 | xb95 | puts his sunglasses on. |
| 17:52.12 | ajuonline | xb95: I know Kung Fu! |
| 17:52.23 | xb95 | Prove it! |
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| 17:54.03 | ajuonline | xb95: :D You think its the year 1995 you live in? :P |
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| 17:54.26 | hitonari | hello everyone :) |
| 17:54.48 | hitonari | this is my first time join gsoc irc :P |
| 17:54.56 | ajuonline | hitonari: welcome |
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| 17:55.53 | sonne | !rejected |
| 17:55.53 | socinfo | "rejected" is If you want to find out why your org was rejected, ask lh politely when she's around - she should be this evening west coast US time (PST) |
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| 18:07.35 | kblin | danderson: silencing people is with +q |
| 18:08.00 | gitte | danderson: or with a silencer, depending on the country you live in. |
| 18:08.13 | foobar1 | :/ |
| 18:08.21 | chaturlingam | What good is a phone call, if you can not speak? |
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| 18:08.51 | *** mode/#gsoc [+q ajuonline!*@*] by kblin |
| 18:08.54 | kblin | right :) |
| 18:09.01 | *** part/#gsoc foobar1 (~ubuntu@chello087206161088.chello.pl) |
| 18:09.06 | *** mode/#gsoc [-q ajuonline!*@*] by kblin |
| 18:10.20 | ajuonline | o.O |
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| 18:16.55 | anirudh | how much experience of working for open source software and bug fixing is required, apart from c/c++ knowledge to pursue a gsoc project? |
| 18:17.28 | *** join/#gsoc ganja_ (~gunjanban@210.212.8.60) |
| 18:17.48 | Catfish_Man | no prior open source experience is required, although presumably if you've written code before you have experience fixing bugs |
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| 18:25.39 | anirudh | Catfish_Man thank you. |
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| 18:36.04 | gitte | anirudh: C/C++ experience is _not_ required. |
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| 18:37.20 | gitte | anirudh: although it shows that you are serious if you have previous experience with Open Source. |
| 18:37.21 | *** join/#gsoc Payton (~Payton@68.113.123.87) |
| 18:37.58 | gitte | anirudh: at least in the projects I am/was involved in, it was a real plus if you had provided at least one patch to an Open Source project. |
| 18:38.00 | schumaml | gitte: this depends on the org or even the mentor |
| 18:38.12 | Payton | How old do you have to be to participate in GSOC? |
| 18:38.26 | smtms | Payton, read the answer in the FAQ. it's on the website |
| 18:38.35 | Payton | Alright. |
| 18:38.36 | gitte | !faq |
| 18:38.37 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs |
| 18:38.44 | fric | 18 at least |
| 18:38.51 | fric | by 26 april i think |
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| 18:38.59 | gitte | But only if you want to be a student. |
| 18:39.14 | gitte | We had a way younger mentor than that 2 years ago (and possibly last year, too) |
| 18:39.17 | fric | or if you alreayd are one xD |
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| 18:39.28 | Payton | 18 at least? |
| 18:40.03 | Payton | Sucks, I'm only 14. Heard about this from Wordpress. |
| 18:40.15 | smtms | these suckers! |
| 18:40.31 | fric | It's the system's fault :p |
| 18:40.57 | gitte | Payton: if you are already in an Open Source org, you can mentor. |
| 18:40.59 | spectie | gitte, yeah, youngest mentor was 12 i think |
| 18:41.25 | Payton | An open source org? |
| 18:41.31 | smtms | I worry about people that young who are too much into coding |
| 18:41.40 | Payton | Sorry, I've only been working with open source for a few months. |
| 18:41.59 | Payton | Pretty new to all of this. |
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| 18:42.50 | gitte | Payton: if you are already in an Open Source org, you can mentor. |
| 18:42.57 | gitte | D'oh. |
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| 18:43.00 | Payton | I'm reading about it. |
| 18:43.09 | gitte | should learn to control her keyboard better. |
| 18:43.19 | smtms | gitte, yeah, college students accept it very well when they are mentored by their little brothers |
| 18:43.49 | gitte | smtms: how old do you think I am? |
| 18:44.18 | gitte | smtms: if you cannot handle to be mentored by an ugly transgenic fly, you're likely not caring enough about Open Source anyway. |
| 18:44.41 | smtms | gitte, I'd like to be mentored by somebody that can teach me something |
| 18:45.03 | summatusmentis | if younger kids know their stuff, is there any reason they can't teach you? |
| 18:45.12 | Dark_Shikari | hmm. is there an age restriction on mentors? |
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| 18:45.43 | summatusmentis | no, not that I'm aware of |
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| 18:46.16 | Dark_Shikari | heh. |
| 18:46.19 | gitte | Dark_Shikari: see the backlog for an answer. |
| 18:46.28 | Dark_Shikari | oh yeah, that. |
| 18:46.38 | Dark_Shikari | notes that he has been younger than almost every student for some time now |
| 18:46.59 | gitte | smtms: again, if you care more than nothing about age, gender, culture or looks of your mentor, you do not care about Open Source enough for this program IMHO. |
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| 18:53.56 | infinity0 | spectie: wow, who was that? |
| 18:54.12 | HosHang | I have a project idea but unrelated to organization |
| 18:54.38 | spectie | infinity0, who ? |
| 18:54.44 | HosHang | my application will be accepted or not? |
| 18:54.47 | infinity0 | 12 yr-old mentor |
| 18:54.53 | spectie | infinity0, a russian lad |
| 18:54.55 | spectie | can't remember his name |
| 18:55.05 | infinity0 | HosHang: no, you need to be with a mentoring organisation |
| 18:55.13 | infinity0 | spectie: cool, which org? |
| 18:55.19 | SukhE | Drupal. Dmitri Gaskin. |
| 18:55.32 | infinity0 | cool |
| 18:55.37 | gitte | Clever, too. |
| 18:55.43 | *** join/#gsoc fat0ss (~chatzilla@112.110.128.228) |
| 18:55.48 | dunnowhyitsme | @ Hos .. try a nesrest matchin organisation |
| 18:55.54 | dunnowhyitsme | and send your proposal |
| 18:56.11 | HosHang | ok |
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| 18:56.36 | dunnowhyitsme | anyone here .. did under NMap Last yr? |
| 18:56.40 | infinity0 | i wish i was 12 and had enough free time to code whatever i wanted without stupid deadlines etc, heh |
| 18:56.44 | HosHang | I am finding most of the project ideas to be a bit difficult, do I have to complete the whole project by myself or there is a grp of students workingon one project? |
| 18:56.56 | Dark_Shikari | all projects are generally one-student |
| 18:57.02 | dunnowhyitsme | why is it so, people didnt complete projects .. (wrt NMap ) |
| 18:57.05 | Dark_Shikari | it's "difficult" because you have 3 months full-time to do it |
| 18:57.12 | Dark_Shikari | this is not supposed to be a cakewalk |
| 18:57.27 | dunnowhyitsme | @ sumone reply : why is it so, people didnt complete projects .. (wrt NMap ) |
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| 18:57.43 | dunnowhyitsme | is it cos dey gt difficult ptojects .. or is it so.. dey didnt giv proper time |
| 18:57.48 | Dark_Shikari | how about you talk to them? |
| 18:57.49 | Dark_Shikari | this is #gsoc |
| 18:58.11 | HosHang | :( |
| 18:58.14 | dunnowhyitsme | cudnt find diff irc for NMap org. |
| 18:58.28 | Dark_Shikari | then why here? this isn't nmap either |
| 18:58.33 | Dark_Shikari | try their mailing list if they don't have an irc. |
| 18:59.01 | dunnowhyitsme | hmm .. ok .. i thought mayb i'l find sumone here from NMap .. (last yr guy) |
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| 19:04.40 | drt24 | dunnowhyitsme: if they bailed out last year they are less likely to be here now. |
| 19:04.59 | HosHang | how many hrs per day shud be spent on the project? |
| 19:05.05 | HosHang | approx? |
| 19:05.14 | drt24 | but it was probably worth a try |
| 19:05.27 | drt24 | HosHang: it is a full time job |
| 19:05.31 | mmadia_haiku | It should be treated as a full time job, HosHang ... so 30~40. |
| 19:05.32 | drt24 | so ~9-5 |
| 19:05.37 | drt24 | per day |
| 19:05.38 | kblin | HosHang: I'd calculate for a 40/hr week, like a normal job |
| 19:05.52 | danderson | yes. Possibly more than that. |
| 19:06.00 | sxw | HosHang: My org takes the view that it's a full time job. |
| 19:06.01 | danderson | 40/wk should be considered a minimum, not a target |
| 19:06.12 | danderson | of course, if you can get the work done in less time, good for you |
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| 19:06.22 | danderson | but the projects should be calibrated to assume 40/wk |
| 19:07.22 | kblin | danderson: just that it's impossible to guestimate how long an unknown developer will take for a project that's never been done before of you need to break it down to man-hours spread over three months :) |
| 19:07.32 | kblin | but in general I'd agree |
| 19:08.21 | danderson | kblin: yeah, of course, conditions apply etc. |
| 19:08.24 | danderson | but that's the idea. |
| 19:09.08 | sxw | Orgs are likely to be tolerant of students who are obviously putting in the work on a project that turns out to be harder the first expected. |
| 19:09.22 | sxw | They're more likely to fail students who are obviously not putting any effort in. |
| 19:09.25 | kblin | right |
| 19:10.14 | Dark_Shikari | kblin: this of course is why I recommend scalable projects |
| 19:10.18 | kblin | if the mentor notices that half of the code she expected the student to build his project on is just stub code, she'll adjust the scope accordingly |
| 19:10.32 | Dark_Shikari | and also, you can get students to stay and finish it ;) |
| 19:10.35 | sxw | The big issue, for students who don't have prior experience with the project, is the learning curve of getting to grips with the code base. |
| 19:10.56 | kblin | that's what the community bonding period is for |
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| 19:11.08 | Crofton | I figure on a task that will take me a few weeks to be suitable a student for the summer :) |
| 19:11.28 | Dark_Shikari | community bonding period? can we use superglue? |
| 19:11.42 | Dark_Shikari | also, if we use the fast-drying stuff, maybe we can get away with a shorter period |
| 19:11.44 | *** join/#gsoc vgvgf (~vgvgf@190.31.202.150) |
| 19:11.53 | sxw | Yes. But the community bonding period doesn't tend to acheive that. Because students don't realise the knowledge they're missing until they start work in earnest. |
| 19:12.05 | kblin | I prefer increasing the temperature |
| 19:12.06 | Dark_Shikari | That's why we make them start work in earnest before applying |
| 19:12.11 | kblin | it's summer of code after all |
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| 19:12.17 | Dark_Shikari | make them write qualification tasks that consist of a small part of the main project |
| 19:12.25 | Dark_Shikari | so they know what they're getting into before they even get accepted. |
| 19:12.35 | Dark_Shikari | let alone start the bonding period |
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| 19:12.49 | sxw | It depends on what your project is, I guess. |
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| 19:13.50 | sxw | But when you've got nearly 1 million lines of code and build in both kernel and user space for 10 or so different operating systems, a qualification task, or the community bonding period isn't going to turn them into an expert. |
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| 19:14.05 | Dark_Shikari | of course it won't |
| 19:14.09 | dunnowhyitsme | 1 |
| 19:14.10 | Dark_Shikari | but it'll give them a chance to get their feet wet |
| 19:14.39 | holger | and it gives Dark_Shikari a chance to see if the application is for real or not ;) which is the main point i guess |
| 19:14.41 | sxw | The point I'm trying to make is the same as Crofton's - it's very easy to underestimate the complexity of a task to someone who also has to learn your code. |
| 19:15.12 | sxw | Qualification tasks have the big advantage that they let you see how serious the applicant is about working with you. |
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| 19:16.47 | drt24 | but have the disadvantage of scaring away candidates who can't put the work in now due to the work that is required for university but will be able to in the summer. |
| 19:17.12 | sxw | Indeed. |
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| 19:18.06 | chrisb_ | Hi, sorry to interrupt, but am I eligible to take part as a mature student studying part-time at the Open University in the UK? I would not have any other job over the summer. |
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| 19:20.51 | ajuonline | Chainsaw: if you are enrolled into any University program, you should be eligible. |
| 19:21.01 | ajuonline | eeks |
| 19:21.05 | Chainsaw | ajuonline: Really?! :) |
| 19:21.14 | ajuonline | Chainsaw: sorry. chrisb_ that was for you |
| 19:21.21 | Chainsaw | ajuonline: In all seriousness though, I'm in a full-time job. I usually mentor :) |
| 19:21.27 | chrisb_ | Thanks, I did read the FAQ and thought that was the case, but it's good to get confirmation. |
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| 19:21.56 | ajuonline | chrisb_: i dunno about part-time/full time etc. you might want to mail the gsoc-discuss list and get a confirmation, |
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| 19:22.06 | ajuonline | list, coz others could use the reply as well. |
| 19:22.16 | ajuonline | Chainsaw: err I know :P autocomplete #fail from my side :D |
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| 19:22.38 | sxw | The FAQ is pretty clear that you are eligible as a full, or part-time student. |
| 19:22.48 | chrisb_ | OK, thanks - I'll do that. |
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| 19:24.03 | Dark_Shikari | drt24: I would say that's an advantage |
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| 19:24.11 | Dark_Shikari | I don't want to have applicants that aren't serious |
| 19:24.33 | Dark_Shikari | if you can't put in 2 days to do a qualification task, you surely can't put in 3 months over the summer |
| 19:24.52 | kblin | Dark_Shikari: just that you usually don't have exams in summer :) |
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| 19:25.24 | Dark_Shikari | kblin: application time is generally before exams |
| 19:25.24 | Chainsaw | Dark_Shikari: I support that. I've had only had one failed student so far, and based on the amount of love the code challenge needed to compile and work... I should have seen it coming. |
| 19:25.29 | Dark_Shikari | we usually have students disappear during the bonding period for exams |
| 19:25.32 | Dark_Shikari | not during the application period |
| 19:25.44 | Dark_Shikari | we basically allow students to miss the first few weeks if they did enough work on the qual task |
| 19:25.46 | holger | Dark_Shikari: i somehow seem to remember i spent more than two days on qualification in 2008 *g* |
| 19:25.47 | Dark_Shikari | (for exactly that reason) |
| 19:25.53 | Chainsaw | If you have students from Romania they tend to have exams during the first few weeks of coding. |
| 19:25.56 | Dark_Shikari | holger: lol |
| 19:26.08 | Dark_Shikari | wait, wasn't 2008's qualification piss-easy? |
| 19:26.13 | Dark_Shikari | compared to the really ridiculous ones we have now ;) |
| 19:26.29 | holger | yeah. i sidetracked that and did some actual asm instead of some me code that's never going to get used |
| 19:26.32 | Dark_Shikari | lol |
| 19:26.37 | Dark_Shikari | and thus we switched the tasks |
| 19:26.40 | Dark_Shikari | to write actual useful code ;) |
| 19:26.46 | Dark_Shikari | You gave me a good idea there =p |
| 19:26.56 | *** part/#gsoc HosHang (~Hoshang_V@210.212.160.101) |
| 19:28.40 | Dark_Shikari | I find some projects are too worried about their projects seeming too hard by comparison to others |
| 19:28.50 | Dark_Shikari | just because your projects are hard doesn't mean students are less likely to pick them |
| 19:28.57 | Dark_Shikari | what it means is _crappy_ students are less likely to pick them ;) |
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| 19:29.46 | vgvgf | Hi, I'd like to apply as a student, but how many hours weekly should a student spend coding? |
| 19:29.49 | holger | maybe you should still offer an easy project just to attract applications. i think this somehow goes into googles slot calculation. |
| 19:30.24 | Dark_Shikari | holger: lol |
| 19:30.38 | Dark_Shikari | vgvgf: full time. 40 hours per week is what's expected |
| 19:30.43 | Ivanovic | vgvgf: full time job |
| 19:30.44 | Dark_Shikari | less is possible depending on the task and the student |
| 19:30.51 | Dark_Shikari | But in short you're not expected to have another full time job. |
| 19:30.57 | Dark_Shikari | *you're expected not to |
| 19:31.16 | ajuonline | ok does the 7500 character count for application still exist? |
| 19:31.16 | Chainsaw | holger: The amount of proposals received goes into the magic formula, yes. |
| 19:31.19 | dunnowhyitsme | full time job during last few weeks okay? |
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| 19:31.32 | holger | only half joking here. "x264 cli is to hard to use, your task is to write a user-friendly gui for it" ;) |
| 19:31.40 | dunnowhyitsme | as per our academic req. we need to work frm mid-july |
| 19:31.43 | vgvgf | thanks, I don't have a job, so I may have 40 or more hs available |
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| 19:31.44 | Chainsaw | holger: But having to manage it all, I highly prefer running a few high-quality projects over a lot of mediocre ones. |
| 19:31.48 | dunnowhyitsme | but full free 2 months b4 dat |
| 19:32.05 | holger | who said we'd actually *want* such a project ? *eg* |
| 19:32.38 | dunnowhyitsme | @ all : as per our academic req. we need to work frm mid-july, but full free 2 months b4 dat .. will i b rejected, based on this? |
| 19:34.14 | xb95 | If anything, I would suggest that you'll probably be rejected if you say '2 months b4 dat' on your application. |
| 19:34.20 | infinity0 | dunnowhyitsme: no, it only depends on whether you complete your proposal |
| 19:34.28 | brooks | dunnowhyitsme: it is all up to the organization in question, but most likely you would be due to not being available for the last 3+ weeks |
| 19:34.42 | infinity0 | i had exams until mid june last year, i just started after they finished |
| 19:35.01 | vgvgf | Applications must be in english, right? Or can they be in other languages? |
| 19:36.18 | Chainsaw | vgvgf: In your best english please. |
| 19:36.28 | *** join/#gsoc Inc (inc@enlightenment/developer/inc) |
| 19:36.39 | dunnowhyitsme | @ infinity: i am available, full evening+night jus that i'v to spend.. few hrs in morning academically |
| 19:36.54 | Inc | any google staff around? |
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| 19:37.02 | danderson | yes |
| 19:37.05 | danderson | Inc: what's up |
| 19:37.07 | Inc | danderson: mind if I pm? |
| 19:37.11 | danderson | go ahead |
| 19:37.16 | kblin | dunnowhyitsme: speaking of english, why don't you try writing proper english in here as well? :) |
| 19:37.35 | kblin | it's a more efficient use of people's time |
| 19:38.06 | dunnowhyitsme | hmm , sure :) |
| 19:38.29 | kblin | thanks |
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| 19:40.11 | kblin | holger: but what do you gain if all the additional slots can't be filled with projects you actually want? |
| 19:40.56 | holger | kblin: you got a point there. we didn't have that problem in the last years because our umbrella videolan tends to attract enough applications already |
| 19:41.15 | kblin | I know quite a few orgs gave back slots last year |
| 19:41.16 | holger | so they could give x264 just enough slots from the generous slot quota |
| 19:44.11 | sxw | I don't think there's anything to gain by gaming the system for anything else. Besides anything else, it's just rude, and people will notice. |
| 19:44.41 | sxw | s/anything else/extra slots/ - sorry don't know what happened there. |
| 19:45.18 | kblin | and you'll get lh angry, which is a bad thing :) |
| 19:45.36 | kblin | especially if you want to apply again the next year |
| 19:46.37 | kblin | well, I guess you won't get her angry with anything as childish as that |
| 19:47.28 | sxw | I think a common mistake is first-time orgs thinking they want as many students as they can possibly handle. |
| 19:48.24 | fric | yea, |
| 19:48.24 | kblin | well, it's almost what yoy want |
| 19:48.39 | kblin | you want as many good students as you possibly can handle |
| 19:48.52 | fric | of course |
| 19:49.01 | sxw | Indeed. But that is actually very different. |
| 19:49.21 | fric | Sometimes.. |
| 19:49.44 | kblin | it's highly likely that you don't get as many of those as you could handle, and you should resist the urge to fill up the rest with not-so-good students :) |
| 19:50.03 | fric | Unfortunately |
| 19:50.19 | *** join/#gsoc okn (~oki@88.234.189.65) |
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| 19:50.45 | sxw | Yes - Both for the good of the programme overall, and for the sanity of your mentors. |
| 19:50.56 | adirat | hey all |
| 19:51.20 | ThomasWaldmann | moin |
| 19:51.21 | sanjoyd | is wondering whether to apply for a hard project which will test his limits or an easier one, which he's very likely to complete. |
| 19:51.51 | loupgaroublond | sanjoyd, i would go for the hard one |
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| 19:52.07 | sanjoyd | loupgaroublond: I'm having the same thoughts. |
| 19:52.08 | nitech | joomla is out this time and fedora too |
| 19:52.10 | fric | yea, me too |
| 19:52.22 | kblin | ThomasWaldmann: moin |
| 19:52.26 | adirat | definitely go for the hard one, leave the easier one to guys like fric :) |
| 19:52.27 | loupgaroublond | gsoc is the kind of program that if you're accepted, you are in the top tier already |
| 19:52.43 | loupgaroublond | so you might as well give yourself a good challenge |
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| 19:52.57 | kblin | ThomasWaldmann: say, I was wondering if I could perhaps use some parts of your python test this year? |
| 19:53.12 | kblin | ThomasWaldmann: I ended up regretting I didn't have one last year |
| 19:53.51 | sanjoyd | loupgaroublond: Exactly. Plus the pressure would probably drive me to better myself. |
| 19:53.53 | ThomasWaldmann | we did not make a new one yet, but we'll do soon. query me for brainstorming :) |
| 19:54.31 | noy | sxw: I think for a first time organization getting into GSOC should be an opportunity to look at your organization and take stock. |
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| 19:55.40 | kblin | nitech: and? |
| 19:55.41 | noy | really take a hard look at where your development is going, and also examine how your culture operates. |
| 19:56.03 | sxw | Yes. It was certainly a wake up call for us a couple of years ago. We ended up putting a lot of work into making the learning curve easier for new developers. |
| 19:56.05 | fric | Gsoc is awesome |
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| 19:56.46 | kblin | sxw: we did this again this year and deleted alot of proposed tasks from last year |
| 19:56.51 | sxw | It accelerated things we'd already been talking about, like getting rid of CVS, and moving towards a better code-review culture. |
| 19:57.27 | kblin | sxw: and on our next meet-up we'll have to discuss if we want to continue participating in gsoc |
| 19:57.44 | kblin | we're running out of GSoC-sized chunks of work :( |
| 19:58.05 | nitech | @kblin what a fedora or joomla user should opt |
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| 19:58.26 | noy | we did something similar, it also paved the way for allowing some monetary incentive for a project that is open source and volunteer. |
| 19:59.12 | kblin | nitech: I don't undestand what you're getting at, I'm afraid |
| 19:59.22 | drt24 | kblin: surely that gives the students a good challenge of finding something to propose ;-) |
| 19:59.45 | nitech | @kblin :-) |
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| 20:01.25 | nitech | kblin: i just wana some project idea for those who was working for joomla and fedora |
| 20:01.46 | kblin | nitech: see the list in the topic |
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| 20:03.03 | nitech | @kblin 'llbe better if you send ma the link |
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| 20:03.32 | drt24 | !soc |
| 20:03.32 | socinfo | "soc" is http://code.google.com/soc/ |
| 20:03.41 | drt24 | !socs |
| 20:03.41 | socinfo | Error: "socs" is not a valid command. |
| 20:04.00 | nitech | kblin: i m new to #gsoc |
| 20:04.20 | drt24 | nitech: look in the topic |
| 20:05.28 | infinity0 | nitech: to be accepted into gsoc it's exepcted that applicants do some basic groundwork |
| 20:05.28 | infinity0 | like reading up public www documents |
| 20:05.28 | infinity0 | and finding links |
| 20:05.28 | infinity0 | there are thousands of applicants and people dont' have the time to hand everything over on a plate |
| 20:05.50 | hypa7ia | and reading /topic :) |
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| 20:06.08 | nitech | i am trying to find the links over the internet about the project idea |
| 20:06.22 | *** join/#gsoc holger (~holger@piratenpartei/ni/holger) |
| 20:06.26 | nitech | but was not able to find the appropraite one |
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| 20:20.53 | DrJoel | wonders how things are going for other projects? Many students popping up? |
| 20:23.04 | sxw | We (OpenAFS) have had a number of private approaches, but things are quite quiet on the lists, and on IRC. |
| 20:23.17 | borja | Same here (Globus) |
| 20:23.22 | kblin | same here |
| 20:23.25 | Dark_Shikari | we've had a half dozen on irc |
| 20:23.29 | Dark_Shikari | of various competency levels |
| 20:23.30 | *** join/#gsoc holger (~holger@piratenpartei/ni/holger) |
| 20:23.32 | firatcan | Hello. I am a CS student and I experienced with a lot of dynamic languages and basic assembly of a virtual hardware that we have built. Even though I have some experience of C and C++ programming I have never worked on a big project nor have I debugged one. I haven't used a C debugger except when I am going through tutorials. Assuming I have knowledge of memory management, pointer arithmetics, types, macros, compiler pre-processing and I have the required |
| 20:23.32 | firatcan | theoretical knowledge for the project, would it be wise to apply if it requires C or C++ knowledge. |
| 20:23.48 | kblin | DrJoel: at least few I'd take seriously |
| 20:23.56 | Dark_Shikari | firatcan: then you know more than 99% of applicants |
| 20:24.02 | DrJoel | We've had about 6-8. Mostly on IRC. I think most of them have done our gating project already. |
| 20:24.24 | borja | Last year, about a week before the deadline we only had a handful or proposals, and most of the proposals came in in the last days, and we're kinda expecting the same will happen this year |
| 20:24.34 | kblin | firatcan: what Dark_Shikari said. I'd say go for it |
| 20:24.39 | borja | Although the students that expressed interest early on did turn out to be the best ones |
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| 20:24.58 | firatcan | borja: You sound like you are suprised. Haven't you been a student before? :) |
| 20:25.02 | DrJoel | kblin: one we have had is a grad student who was recruited by a student from last year. He has already submitted some code and is in the propsal phase now |
| 20:25.30 | borja | firatcan: not surprised, just the way things are :-) |
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| 20:25.36 | DrJoel | firatcan: GSOC projects tend to be very willing to help. You are a student and we know that. :) |
| 20:26.45 | infinity0 | (freenet) 2 new approaches on the mailing list plus one semi-regular dev interested too |
| 20:27.02 | ferringb | firatcan: tbh, my experience w/ folks pulling off projects (whether it be soc or otherwise) is willingness to just jump in, even when they don't yet know the material in question in full |
| 20:27.06 | infinity0 | it's still early days though, iirc last year things didn't pick up until a week before apps start |
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| 20:27.31 | kblin | yeah |
| 20:28.01 | ferringb | firatcan: regardless, your skillset matching is dependant on the project... memory manaagement for example is less of a concern for dynamic languages ;) |
| 20:28.03 | *** part/#gsoc gitte (~jircii@fw11v.embl.de) |
| 20:28.11 | kblin | but of course _most_ people who don't turn up with their proposal until two hours before the deadline are not going to make it |
| 20:28.25 | *** part/#gsoc Rondel (~JoLeClodo@vian.wallinfire.net) |
| 20:28.32 | sxw | Indeed, but many projects would jump at a student with that skill set. I know we would. |
| 20:28.38 | Catfish_Man | ferringb: heh. Having a garbage collector doesn't excuse you from managing memory... just makes it slightly harder to get wrong |
| 20:29.02 | Catfish_Man | over-rooting, object churn, and such can still screw you |
| 20:29.20 | sxw | This could easily segway into my rant about how nobody understands pointers these days. |
| 20:29.53 | firatcan | ferringb: Yeah. What I meant was that I did pet projects in C for learning those concepts. But all of the production scale projects I have worked on was written with dynamic languages, Python and Ruby in particular. |
| 20:29.58 | kblin | sxw: that's because people learn java, which has no pointers |
| 20:30.11 | sxw | Yeh. That's part 2 of the rant. |
| 20:30.12 | holger | kblin: this probably got lost. (on 3g atm and it's flaky) |
| 20:30.19 | sreich | Catfish_Man: yeah, like confusing the GC by making it think that an object will be used more often than it is |
| 20:30.28 | holger | <holger> well people _are_ already playing the systems. i think there a few projects with tasks as hard as x264's. these _are_ going to require a full summer no less. (and if anyone is crazy enough to take up that asm task - let me say that i wouldn't apply. it may not be impossible, but close.) |
| 20:30.28 | DrJoel | back in my day... all we had was FORTRAN 66 and we liked it. young kids and their dynamic languages.. get off my lawn |
| 20:30.43 | sreich | lol |
| 20:30.44 | straydawg | DrJoel: hear hear |
| 20:30.44 | ferringb | Catfish_Man: you get no arguement from me on that one, I'm just pointing out *most* dynamic code, folk don't pay attention to the mem overhead (or sadly need to) |
| 20:30.55 | Catfish_Man | sreich: it's particularly fun in my native objc, where people can and do accidentally hide objects from the GC by twiddling the pointer's low bits |
| 20:31.01 | *** part/#gsoc kageiit (~cb6ef6e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-eevbiukcewpadikl) |
| 20:31.02 | Catfish_Man | or have to interact with non-GC code transparently |
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| 20:31.25 | sreich | Catfish_Man: oh, that sounds like loads of.. |
| 20:31.29 | Catfish_Man | hehe, it's fun |
| 20:31.32 | ferringb | Catfish_Man: at least for python, it's a helluva lot easier to get them to be nicer to memory just via getting them to convert over to streaming/iteration designs instead (end result, they don't hold as much in memory... basically get them to behave w/ out them knowing it ;) |
| 20:31.48 | kblin | holger: 3G is always flaky ;) |
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| 20:31.56 | Catfish_Man | anyway, I'm in a meeting. Need to pay attention for a while. Later folks |
| 20:31.57 | kblin | holger: I'd disagree |
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| 20:32.14 | ferringb | Catfish_Man: err.. screwing w/ the pointer? it stores gc info w/in the ptr itself? |
| 20:32.26 | Catfish_Man | ferringb: no, people store other things there |
| 20:32.34 | Catfish_Man | tag information, or xor linked list tricks, or whatnot |
| 20:32.37 | ferringb | ah |
| 20:32.38 | Catfish_Man | someone even used the low bits as a lock |
| 20:32.59 | ferringb | yeah, I just thought you were saying it was a systematic thing for objc, which would scare the crap out of me |
| 20:33.07 | sxw | If your pointers are always word aligned, you've got these bits going spare... And spare = waste :) |
| 20:33.09 | Catfish_Man | oh jeez, that would be awful |
| 20:33.24 | ferringb | Catfish_Man: programming in the 70s/80s perhaps ;) |
| 20:33.58 | sxw | There's some exciting bits in the Linux kernel which do exactly that. Woe betide you if you try and using them as a pointer without masking off the data bits. |
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| 20:36.40 | holger | kblin: well i think it's safe to say we don't have an easy task this year. maybe one or two that might pass as "medium" |
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| 20:38.10 | kblin | holger: ok, samba has three tasks we'd classify as "easy" |
| 20:38.20 | Dark_Shikari | holger: the optimization task? I think I could do it. |
| 20:38.25 | Dark_Shikari | But it wouldn't involve much asm. |
| 20:38.28 | Arc | can someone help with a bug in the webapp? |
| 20:39.03 | Arc | all of the urls in the Notifications are giving me 404's |
| 20:39.23 | holger | Dark_Shikari: i have two or three percent in my tree. 10? not without just calling that asm less often (which i guess is what you have in mind) |
| 20:39.29 | kblin | Arc: what notifications? |
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| 20:39.33 | Arc | ie http://socghop.appspot.com/org/applicant/google/gsoc2009/python |
| 20:39.54 | Arc | kblin: the notifications about being accepted as an org, invitation to be the org admin, etc |
| 20:40.05 | kblin | did you already fill out that form? |
| 20:40.10 | kblin | SRabbelier: ping |
| 20:40.10 | Arc | i figured the bug would work itself out in time but it still hasnt |
| 20:40.11 | Arc | no |
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| 20:40.21 | Arc | i dont even know what the form is |
| 20:40.21 | Dark_Shikari | holger: algorithmic changes, like my local changes to intra analysis |
| 20:40.27 | SRabbelier | kblin: pong |
| 20:40.38 | kblin | SRabbelier: Arc is having melange issues :) |
| 20:40.39 | Dark_Shikari | I doubt you have even 2-3% in your tree |
| 20:41.07 | holger | on penryn i do. probably more like 1 on i.7 |
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| 20:41.55 | SRabbelier | Arc: what seems to be the problem officer? :P |
| 20:42.13 | Arc | SRabbelier: I get 404's on the urls given in the notifications |
| 20:42.16 | SRabbelier | Arc: those links should start with /gsoc |
| 20:42.21 | SRabbelier | Arc: and, those urls are from last year |
| 20:42.26 | SRabbelier | Arc: as you can see from the gsoc2009 prefix |
| 20:42.34 | SRabbelier | (which only makes sense, last year those urls were correct) |
| 20:43.10 | Arc | why didn't they clear? |
| 20:43.14 | Arc | i got at least 5 this year |
| 20:43.40 | SRabbelier | Arc: we don't delete messages for you |
| 20:43.46 | *** join/#gsoc kitallis (~kitallis@122.173.232.32) |
| 20:43.50 | SRabbelier | Arc: if we would people would be complaining "omg melange deleted my notifications, how could you" |
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| 20:45.33 | SRabbelier | Arc: you can even mass-delete notifications now |
| 20:45.39 | SRabbelier | Arc: plus they are timestamped |
| 20:45.42 | SRabbelier | shrugs |
| 20:45.48 | SRabbelier | really don't know what we couldof done differently |
| 20:46.27 | DrJoel | SRabbelier: In the default view for a project without a home page, is is possible to get the URL that now is at the bottom of the page moved up. It is not below the proposal template and lost |
| 20:46.35 | *** join/#gsoc n0time (~n0time@5357B75C.cable.casema.nl) |
| 20:46.38 | danderson | hmm, that's not correct... |
| 20:46.48 | *** join/#gsoc komputes (~komputes@ubuntu/member/komputes) |
| 20:46.56 | danderson | serializes 96.0.0.0/6, deserializes it as 0.0.0.0/6 |
| 20:47.02 | danderson | I haz a bork. |
| 20:47.07 | danderson | oh, and a wrong channel too! |
| 20:47.09 | danderson | how exciting! |
| 20:47.20 | danderson | sorry. |
| 20:47.40 | SRabbelier | danderson: lol :P |
| 20:47.42 | SRabbelier | danderson: how did you manage that |
| 20:47.47 | SRabbelier | DrJoel: let me see if I can easily fix that |
| 20:48.08 | DrJoel | SRabbelier: thanks.. kblin and I both missed it. |
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| 20:48.11 | SRabbelier | DrJoel: you are in luck my friend, I can! |
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| 20:49.21 | kblin | SRabbelier: my hero! :) |
| 20:49.34 | danderson | SRabbelier: manage what? |
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| 20:50.15 | SRabbelier | danderson: wrong channeling, you haven't said anything in here since almost two hours now :P |
| 20:50.33 | danderson | oh |
| 20:50.48 | danderson | two irssis side by side, typed into the wrong one |
| 20:50.52 | SRabbelier | ah :P |
| 20:51.17 | kblin | danderson: luckily it was a rather harmless bork |
| 20:51.41 | kblin | not like forwarding confidential mail to a public mailing list or the like |
| 20:51.53 | SRabbelier | kblin: are you speaking from experience? :P |
| 20:52.10 | danderson | I always quadruple check when I have risky stuff in the paste buffer or my brain |
| 20:52.11 | kblin | not personal, but I've seen that happen last week |
| 20:52.22 | SRabbelier | kblin: neat :P |
| 20:52.28 | *** join/#gsoc liquidmetal (~Utkarsh@112.110.194.42) |
| 20:52.31 | danderson | in this case, I'm just implementing BGP in haskell, and my IP network prefix decoder is phailing |
| 20:52.35 | *** join/#gsoc dmj726_n900 (~user@m510e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 20:52.37 | Arc | SRabbelier: the process is confusing in its current state |
| 20:52.59 | SRabbelier | Arc: I just explaiend what all we did to make it not confusing |
| 20:53.05 | SRabbelier | Arc: your statement does not help me much |
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| 20:53.19 | Arc | why didnt the information copy over from the org application? |
| 20:53.20 | dmj726_n900 | I have a proposal that fits in 2 different orgs. What should I do? |
| 20:53.22 | SRabbelier | Arc: oh, and we also sorted by date by default |
| 20:53.45 | SRabbelier | Arc: what information? |
| 20:53.58 | SRabbelier | Arc: please, I cannot read your mind, be more explicit |
| 20:54.11 | Arc | mailing lists, irc channels, etc |
| 20:54.12 | sxw | dmj726_n900: Speak to them. |
| 20:54.18 | Arc | the information in the org profile |
| 20:54.22 | SRabbelier | Arc: erm, it is? |
| 20:54.27 | SRabbelier | Arc: it should be filled in already |
| 20:54.29 | Arc | it wasnt for us |
| 20:54.41 | SRabbelier | kblin: was it for you? |
| 20:54.45 | SRabbelier | it was for us |
| 20:54.57 | Arc | also, the reason i was digging into the notifications was to figure out why Python isnt showing up for 2010 on my sidebar like it does for 2009 |
| 20:55.28 | Arc | under GSoC Organizations I only see [+] Python (GSoC 2009) |
| 20:55.33 | kblin | that's because you haven't competed the process yet |
| 20:56.03 | Arc | what more is required for the process? |
| 20:56.12 | kblin | SRabbelier: so, do I open a bug for the fact that I have to replicate the information from the org profile into the org homepage? :) |
| 20:56.35 | dhaun | would star such a bug report :) |
| 20:56.50 | SRabbelier | kblin: I think there's sortof one for that already |
| 20:57.03 | SRabbelier | kblin: the problem is that we have no way to combine those two pages atm |
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| 20:57.11 | SRabbelier | kblin: it would require some manual fiddling |
| 20:57.16 | SRabbelier | kblin: not impossible, but, meh |
| 20:57.25 | Arc | kblin: what more do I need to do? |
| 20:57.33 | SRabbelier | Arc: have you completed the org profile and an admin profile? |
| 20:57.40 | Arc | where is the admin profile? |
| 20:58.08 | Wolf_OSGeo | waves at Arc |
| 20:58.08 | Arc | under Edit Profile on the left it only has my name and linkid, which is unchanged from last year |
| 20:58.10 | SRabbelier | Arc: it's under requests in the sidebar, and also a notifcation was sent for that |
| 20:58.21 | SRabbelier | Arc: http://socghop.appspot.com/user/requests |
| 20:58.35 | SRabbelier | Wolf_OSGeo: are you having similar troubles? |
| 20:59.09 | Wolf_OSGeo | SRabbelier: nope, no probs here |
| 20:59.12 | kblin | SRabbelier: is there one for the duplicating newlines? |
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| 20:59.50 | Wolf_OSGeo | just saying hello to Arc ;) |
| 20:59.56 | Arc | ok i see it now |
| 20:59.58 | Arc | hey Wolf_OSGeo |
| 20:59.59 | SRabbelier | kblin: doubtful |
| 21:00.14 | Arc | sorry i havent had a lot of time to deal with this, we had a house fire followed by much scrambling around |
| 21:00.15 | kblin | SRabbelier: ok, I'll open one for that, as that one is _really_ annoying |
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| 21:00.55 | Arc | all of our gear is ok, but its been a process to get things settled |
| 21:00.59 | SRabbelier | kblin: very curious |
| 21:01.05 | Wolf_OSGeo | SRabbelier: : I also have the duplicating of newlines |
| 21:01.10 | SRabbelier | Arc: ouch, sorry to hear that |
| 21:01.17 | SRabbelier | Wolf_OSGeo: hmmm, _weird_ |
| 21:01.36 | Wolf_OSGeo | SRabbelier: at least when copy-pasting from our wiki |
| 21:01.48 | Wolf_OSGeo | but it works better in firefox than with chromium |
| 21:01.55 | SRabbelier | Wolf_OSGeo: that's cos tinymce sucks :P |
| 21:02.05 | Wolf_OSGeo | Arc: A fire? that's awfull! |
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| 21:06.24 | kblin | Wolf_OSGeo: you can trick tinymce a bit by not ending with a new line, then at least you'll notice all added newlines |
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| 21:07.05 | Wolf_OSGeo | yeah, but I also get them before avery paragraph. I do notice :P |
| 21:07.20 | Wolf_OSGeo | and in the end a whole bunch of them |
| 21:07.21 | kblin | no, wait |
| 21:07.24 | kblin | doesn't work |
| 21:07.37 | kblin | SRabbelier: it's not as simple as I thought |
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| 21:07.51 | kblin | I had 0 newlines at the end of the application template, and now I have... |
| 21:07.53 | Wolf_OSGeo | but I managed to do it like this: copy-paste, then select all clear formatting, re-apply formatting by hand and save |
| 21:08.08 | kblin | 19 |
| 21:08.13 | SRabbelier | kblin: we dont' do anything about it though (unless someone submits a patch) |
| 21:08.26 | SRabbelier | kblin: we are planning to replace TinyMCe this summer |
| 21:08.31 | kblin | ok |
| 21:08.36 | SRabbelier | kblin: (we already have a few students interested in doing that) |
| 21:08.53 | Wolf_OSGeo | but if I want to change anything in our profile I need to re-do this for both text fields or else all empty space breeds like rabbits |
| 21:09.31 | SRabbelier | Wolf_OSGeo: wow, that's just... yeah.. wow :P |
| 21:09.46 | SRabbelier | it's probably a bad combination between tinymce, django, and beautifulsoup |
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| 21:11.27 | kblin | http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=811 |
| 21:11.35 | kblin | for anyone who's interested |
| 21:11.56 | dhaun | stars that |
| 21:12.00 | dhaun | thanks, kblin |
| 21:12.01 | kblin | I won't test this anymore, I'm sick of deleting newlines from my application template :) |
| 21:12.21 | kblin | interestingly for me it's not happening on the description |
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| 21:12.27 | kblin | but that's a single paragraph |
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| 21:13.41 | Wolf_OSGeo | stars it too |
| 21:14.13 | Wolf_OSGeo | for me it happens everywhere, but that might be because I have formatting everywhere |
| 21:14.49 | SRabbelier | kblin: *shakes head*, wow, I can't believe TinyMCE is really that weird :P |
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| 21:15.44 | kblin | Wolf_OSGeo: it doesn't seem to do anything if you only have one paragraph |
| 21:15.52 | Wolf_OSGeo | SRabbelier: better believe it! |
| 21:15.59 | kblin | it doesn't add a newline for the last paragraph in my app template either |
| 21:16.27 | Wolf_OSGeo | kblin, hmmh Maybe that would be a workaround, does it let you do linebreaks (shift-enter) I wonde... |
| 21:16.49 | kblin | worth a try |
| 21:17.03 | kblin | I'll go test the worldforge profile, that has a shorter app template ;) |
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| 21:17.24 | Arc | SRabbelier: is PSF set for now, then? |
| 21:18.22 | SRabbelier | Arc: let me see |
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| 21:20.27 | SRabbelier | ah, I lied to DrJoel |
| 21:20.33 | kblin | SRabbelier: you probably won't believe it, but now the newlines in the WF profile's app template are gone :) |
| 21:20.42 | kblin | did I mention I hate TinyMCE? |
| 21:20.44 | SRabbelier | kblin: lol |
| 21:20.49 | SRabbelier | kblin: we all do ^^ |
| 21:21.22 | SRabbelier | Arc: ah, no, you still need to set a home document |
| 21:21.37 | kblin | ok, now that I readded them, I can reproduce the problem there as well |
| 21:21.39 | Arc | what is a "home document"? |
| 21:21.47 | kblin | I wonder if my backup admin noticed and tried this workaround |
| 21:22.03 | Wolf_OSGeo | Arc, click on create a page |
| 21:22.16 | SRabbelier | "Create a New Document" |
| 21:22.23 | SRabbelier | make sure it's the one under the PSF 2010 header |
| 21:22.24 | Wolf_OSGeo | remeber its linkid and then go back to your profile and put the link id there |
| 21:22.45 | SRabbelier | Wolf_OSGeo: easiest is to just use 'home' as link_id :P |
| 21:22.46 | kblin | SRabbelier: aha |
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| 21:22.57 | Arc | ok |
| 21:23.01 | kblin | Wolf_OSGeo: ok, the shift-return workaround doesn't work |
| 21:23.08 | kblin | Wolf_OSGeo: that removes the newlines completely |
| 21:23.25 | Wolf_OSGeo | SRabbelier: I used about :) |
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| 21:23.46 | Wolf_OSGeo | kblin: dang! 2-0 for TinyMCE |
| 21:24.01 | kblin | Wolf_OSGeo: filing a separate bug for that right now |
| 21:24.41 | SRabbelier | kblin: why bother? :P |
| 21:24.46 | Wolf_OSGeo | :D I'll star it if you give a link |
| 21:25.00 | SRabbelier | see issuesee issue 306 |
| 21:25.02 | Wolf_OSGeo | SRabbelier: to annoy you ;) :P |
| 21:25.03 | SRabbelier | http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=306 |
| 21:25.04 | SRabbelier | star that one |
| 21:25.57 | Wolf_OSGeo | SRabbelier: dully starred |
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| 21:26.15 | Wolf_OSGeo | +7 for wiki instead of TinyMCE! |
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| 21:27.02 | SRabbelier | Wolf_OSGeo: s/ll/l/ |
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| 21:27.19 | SRabbelier | Wolf_OSGeo: or was that "pun intended"? :D |
| 21:27.27 | SRabbelier | Wolf_OSGeo: in which case, nice one |
| 21:27.32 | kblin | Wolf_OSGeo: issue 812 |
| 21:27.51 | Wolf_OSGeo | SRabbelier: yeah, let's say it was intended :D |
| 21:28.01 | SRabbelier | Wolf_OSGeo: heheh :P |
| 21:28.09 | Wolf_OSGeo | also starred |
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| 21:30.22 | SRabbelier | kblin: ok, so, no, I cannot easily change the position of the Ideas list :P |
| 21:30.36 | kblin | crud |
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| 21:30.45 | kblin | SRabbelier: too bad :) |
| 21:31.04 | SRabbelier | kblin: I can (relatively) easily change it for forms though :P |
| 21:31.23 | SRabbelier | (which doesn't help you at all, but eh, :P) |
| 21:32.01 | kblin | wait, django/appengine or whatever is responsible for that doesn't have page templates? |
| 21:32.57 | SRabbelier | kblin: page templates? |
| 21:34.42 | kblin | that's what all the web-apps and CMSes I've worked on so far call it |
| 21:35.00 | SRabbelier | kblin: yes, it does have it, but I don't see how it's relevant :P |
| 21:35.00 | kblin | you know, the stuff that lets you separate the view from the model and controller? |
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| 21:35.23 | kblin | shouldn't that make it easier to change the position of the ideas page ling? |
| 21:35.30 | kblin | link, dammit |
| 21:35.30 | SRabbelier | oh, wait a sec |
| 21:35.31 | SRabbelier | lol |
| 21:35.40 | SRabbelier | I thought we generated those pages dynamically |
| 21:35.42 | SRabbelier | but we don't ^^ |
| 21:35.42 | SRabbelier | doh |
| 21:37.27 | SRabbelier | kblin: yay, thanks, fixed it |
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| 21:37.52 | kblin | I wonder what you'll manage to do when I just kick you _more_ ;) |
| 21:38.06 | SRabbelier | hahah :P |
| 21:38.07 | kblin | SRabbelier: on a more serious note, thanks :) |
| 21:38.56 | SRabbelier | kblin: you're welcome |
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| 21:40.59 | kblin | Wolf_OSGeo: so, now I wonder if you always put an <enter><shift-enter>.... |
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| 21:42.30 | marcheu | so that home document, let me summarize the steps to see if I got it. 1. create a new document (the link in my org menu). 2. Fill it with the contents from the organization profile. 3. ??? 4. profit ? |
| 21:43.07 | SRabbelier | marcheu: enter it in org profile |
| 21:43.45 | kblin | marcheu: make sure to delete all the extra newlines tinymce adds |
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| 21:43.53 | kblin | it gets worse if you don't :) |
| 21:44.01 | marcheu | hmm? I alreay have a org profile |
| 21:44.24 | *** part/#gsoc jermar (~jermar@88.103.48.240) |
| 21:44.38 | kblin | marcheu: the org profile has a field called Home page Document link ID: |
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| 21:44.52 | marcheu | ah ok, that what it is for, thanks! |
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| 21:45.05 | marcheu | connects the dots to get to step 4. profit |
| 21:45.21 | anth_x | does the project list and map get added automatically? |
| 21:45.28 | anth_x | (now or when appropriate) |
| 21:46.08 | SRabbelier | yes |
| 21:46.20 | SRabbelier | anth_x: when appropriate they are shown |
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| 21:53.22 | SRabbelier | kblin: can't be bothered to cut another release though... mhhh.. *looks around to check if Lennie is around* |
| 21:54.09 | SRabbelier | kblin: he's off to bed I think... I could just push it out without cutting a release... *mischievous grin* |
| 21:57.01 | kblin | :) |
| 21:57.44 | SRabbelier | kblin: look now *grin* |
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| 22:00.17 | kblin | SRabbelier: I notice no difference, the ideas link is above the application template as it used to 0:) |
| 22:00.28 | SRabbelier | kblin: *rofl* |
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| 22:00.52 | kblin | crap |
| 22:01.00 | kblin | bug 811 happens on documents as well |
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| 22:01.17 | SRabbelier | 0.o |
| 22:01.19 | SRabbelier | wth |
| 22:01.44 | kblin | let me check once more |
| 22:02.16 | kblin | yeah |
| 22:02.38 | kblin | can we have TinyMCE be taken out and shot? |
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| 22:02.58 | rajivb | kblin: why is that? |
| 22:03.30 | SRabbelier | kblin: block the jscript file? |
| 22:04.04 | kblin | rajivb: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=811 and http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=812 |
| 22:04.15 | kblin | SRabbelier: good point |
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| 22:07.22 | mkmks | can somebody give some info on issue with country of residence during the program? |
| 22:08.08 | smtms | mkmks, can you ask a specific question? |
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| 22:11.33 | kblin | brb, changing pcs |
| 22:11.42 | mkmks | during the application, selection process and in the beginning of the program (in case I'm selected) I'll reside in Sweden, but for most of summer I probably have to be in US; how bad is that? (I'm not a US citizen) |
| 22:12.33 | smtms | mkmks, you will have to have the right to work in the US |
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| 22:13.15 | smtms | mkmks, and taxation becomes much more complex when you mix countries during SoC |
| 22:13.15 | dho | You do not need to be a US citizen nor do you need to reside in the US to participate in GSoC |
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| 22:14.05 | mkmks | dho: the trip is not related to gsoc |
| 22:14.38 | dho | I guess I don't understand the question: residence doesn't matter |
| 22:14.47 | dho | in most cases |
| 22:15.11 | smtms | mkmks, when you do GSoC work on U.S. soil, you are working in the U.S., for which you need an appropriate authorization (visa) |
| 22:15.12 | micahcowan | dho, except that, IIRC, you must reside in the same country throughout the duration of the program. |
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| 22:15.38 | smtms | micahcowan, please, no lies and fantasies |
| 22:16.02 | mkmks | micahcowan: what part of rules says that? |
| 22:16.26 | micahcowan | Thought I remembered reading that, either from the faq or the ML. |
| 22:16.38 | dho | There's no such limitation |
| 22:17.10 | smtms | GSoC students routinely travel during the summer |
| 22:17.25 | dho | smtms: I am sure that is untrue |
| 22:17.28 | mkmks | and do they have to have working permit for every country they visit? |
| 22:17.29 | micahcowan | I probably misunderstood "You must also be eligible to work in the country in which you'll reside throughout the duration of the program" |
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| 22:17.53 | Ivanovic | micahcowan: this only means "wherever you currently work for the program, you have to be allowed to do so" |
| 22:17.55 | micahcowan | which could possibly be worded better. |
| 22:17.55 | smtms | mkmks, if they want to abide the law in every country they visit... |
| 22:18.03 | jall | if you are eligible to work in sweden and to have a brief non-resident trip to the US via the visa waiver program, you'd be fine, presumably. |
| 22:18.03 | Catfish_Man | that wording is a bit unclear, it's true |
| 22:18.17 | Ivanovic | so eg someone from sweden who wants to do SoC work while he is in the US needs to have a visa that permits working in the US |
| 22:18.22 | dho | jall: correct |
| 22:18.40 | mkmks | ok, I think I get it |
| 22:18.45 | dho | otherwise any work done outside of your resident territory would have to be taxed. to the letter, that's probably true. |
| 22:19.00 | Ivanovic | taxing in general is *hell* |
| 22:19.16 | dho | But if you go to the US on a business trip or for pleasure and you get paged to do work, there's no reason that you'd have to pay US taxes on earned wages for that money |
| 22:19.20 | Ivanovic | that is: it is personal income so you have to make sure that, according to the law of your country, things are taxed correctly |
| 22:19.33 | dho | Yes |
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| 22:22.43 | jdk2588 | !list |
| 22:22.44 | socinfo | Error: "list" is not a valid command. |
| 22:22.57 | *** join/#gsoc EsCoVa (~gabriel@187.106.49.211) |
| 22:23.36 | jdk2588 | why Only 4 orgs are shown in the List of Accepted Organization?? |
| 22:23.38 | robbyoconnor | !faq |
| 22:23.38 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs |
| 22:23.44 | robbyoconnor | jdk2588: no. |
| 22:23.47 | SRabbelier | jdk2588: the other ones are in the top list |
| 22:23.51 | SRabbelier | jdk2588: which takes a while to load |
| 22:23.52 | robbyoconnor | I saw far more than 4. |
| 22:23.53 | kblin | !patience |
| 22:23.53 | socinfo | "patience" is very important in GSoC. Check !next and the !timeline and go code something useful. |
| 22:24.12 | kblin | it's just that the list with 4 entries loads faster |
| 22:24.18 | jdk2588 | kblin :) |
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| 22:24.41 | mkmks | !googleiswatchingme |
| 22:24.42 | socinfo | Error: "googleiswatchingme" is not a valid command. |
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| 22:25.02 | robbyoconnor | mkmks: big dal |
| 22:25.17 | robbyoconnor | if google wants to watch me, i say "enjoy the show!" |
| 22:25.24 | *** part/#gsoc EsCoVa (~gabriel@187.106.49.211) |
| 22:26.15 | jdk2588 | o.O |
| 22:27.18 | kblin | that's different, who'd want to watch robby anyway? ;) |
| 22:27.25 | robbyoconnor | a lot of people |
| 22:27.26 | robbyoconnor | :) |
| 22:27.33 | robbyoconnor | is drop-dead sexy :) |
| 22:27.50 | robbyoconnor | ask lh, she saw me get hit on lol |
| 22:27.59 | robbyoconnor | (met her at openeverything) |
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| 22:28.46 | kblin | robbyoconnor: that was a rethorical question :) |
| 22:28.55 | robbyoconnor | I answered it! |
| 22:28.56 | robbyoconnor | :) |
| 22:29.12 | kblin | :) |
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| 22:38.28 | firatcan | !next |
| 22:38.29 | socinfo | "next" is March 29th -- student applications are then officially opened, but you can talk to participating organizations now already :) |
| 22:42.36 | galiven | I've got a procedural question that I couldn't find an answer to on the discussion boards or the FAQs |
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| 22:43.29 | galiven | I want to be a mentor on an idea that's up on my organizations GSoC list, but I don't have a Google ID to sign in to apply to be a mentor |
| 22:43.40 | galiven | and I don't particularly want to create a Goole ID to do so |
| 22:43.49 | SRabbelier | galiven: do so anyway |
| 22:44.04 | galiven | that's the only way to be a mentor? |
| 22:44.08 | galiven | that's kind of sad |
| 22:44.30 | SRabbelier | galiven: yes |
| 22:45.19 | kblin | galiven: well |
| 22:45.45 | smtms | creating a Google Account is as easy as picking a password |
| 22:46.05 | galiven | right, except that means that Google is now watching me on every computer that uses that google account |
| 22:46.08 | galiven | which I don't really want |
| 22:46.30 | SRabbelier | galiven: for pete's sake |
| 22:46.39 | Catfish_Man | just log out after you're done? |
| 22:46.41 | SRabbelier | galiven: use any browsers privacy mode |
| 22:47.04 | SRabbelier | galiven: and the obvious, sign out after you're done, yes |
| 22:47.51 | galiven | the point is that once I've told google "This account is associated with this IP" in several places, it doesn't matter what privacy mode I use |
| 22:48.04 | infinity0 | galiven: lol you don't need to se that account for anything than gsoc |
| 22:48.17 | infinity0 | VPN it? |
| 22:48.18 | smtms | galiven, use tor |
| 22:48.21 | *** join/#gsoc lecram (~chatzilla@187.34.113.52) |
| 22:48.34 | smtms | galiven, or create your own botnet of Windows machines |
| 22:48.41 | galiven | i suppose tor is an option, just seems like it should be easier. . . |
| 22:48.56 | SRabbelier | galiven: yes, don't be so paranoid |
| 22:49.10 | Catfish_Man | in general, logging into a google webapp without providing any information to google is... I would say understandably, somewhat difficult |
| 22:49.14 | SRabbelier | galiven: if you want to be paranoid, that means you have to put forth some effort |
| 22:49.48 | SRabbelier | galiven: Being a mentor also requires that you give your personal information to Google |
| 22:50.00 | SRabbelier | galiven: (full name, location, etc) |
| 22:50.03 | Catfish_Man | true, so they can send you a pay check |
| 22:50.07 | infinity0 | wait... we *can't* use fake passports? damn :( |
| 22:50.15 | galiven | I wouldn't mind giving google a name and address, because I trust they aren't going to track my personal life too much |
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| 22:50.22 | Catfish_Man | hm. Actually that goes to the org I guess. |
| 22:50.23 | galiven | but it's too easy to track computers |
| 22:50.24 | infinity0 | Catfish_Man: mentors don't get money, the org does |
| 22:50.27 | SRabbelier | infinity0: sorry, we tried that last year, but it didn't work out too great |
| 22:50.39 | SRabbelier | infinity0: (j/k) |
| 22:50.41 | infinity0 | :'( but i had 5 prepared already! |
| 22:51.14 | SRabbelier | galiven: even if you'd use something like a simple username/password combination, you'd tell Google your ip wouldn't you? |
| 22:51.27 | galiven | yeah |
| 22:51.28 | SRabbelier | galiven: wouldn't your "what if" scenario apply to any form of authentication |
| 22:51.38 | domonoky | but mentors get t-shirts :-) |
| 22:51.42 | galiven | which the already know my IP for each separate computer, but it's not linked |
| 22:51.46 | galiven | which is how I like it |
| 22:52.03 | galiven | i don't want them to combine my search history from my work computers and my home computer |
| 22:52.04 | SRabbelier | galiven: so, use the account only for GSoC |
| 22:52.13 | SRabbelier | galiven: and only access it from your home computer |
| 22:52.14 | galiven | can't let skynet get too smart |
| 22:52.25 | SRabbelier | domonoky: excatly, which is why they need the information |
| 22:52.29 | infinity0 | lol |
| 22:54.20 | infinity0 | can we have one of those that says "i mentored for gsoc 2010 and all i got was this lousy tshirt" |
| 22:55.01 | SRabbelier | infinity0: nah, even as a joke it wouldn't work, everybody knows the t-shirts are awesome :P |
| 22:55.25 | infinity0 | are they the same as the student ones? cos i already have one of those :p |
| 22:56.59 | kblin | infinity0: they're different every year, duh |
| 22:57.49 | SRabbelier | infinity0: and totally awesome this year at that |
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| 22:58.08 | infinity0 | oh fair enough, i'll take you guys' word for it :p |
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| 23:00.22 | sreich | galiven: but it needs to be smart if we want it to hunt out viruses |
| 23:00.37 | galiven | human viruses? |
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| 23:01.03 | kblin | galiven: of course. "mankind is a disease, and we are the cure" |
| 23:01.08 | galiven | :-) |
| 23:01.32 | sreich | :) |
| 23:02.33 | kblin | whoa |
| 23:02.53 | kblin | ok, so google really stopped censoring in china? |
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| 23:03.19 | Catfish_Man | apparently so |
| 23:03.43 | danderson | kblin: yup |
| 23:03.43 | infinity0 | i read somewhere they're going to leave on apr 10? |
| 23:03.43 | kblin | I'm impressed |
| 23:04.06 | danderson | unless the "somewhere" is on the official google blog, I wouldn't believe anything you read on the internet |
| 23:04.19 | galiven | april 10 is when all internet companies need to renew their registration in china, and so far google hasn't done so |
| 23:04.27 | infinity0 | oh ok |
| 23:04.36 | galiven | I read it on /. and the Wall Street Journal |
| 23:04.52 | infinity0 | so the 20+ random search results for "google china april 10" are just extrapolating? |
| 23:05.06 | galiven | the apr 10 date seemed arbitrary to me until I read the details too |
| 23:05.16 | kblin | infinity0: guessing, or copying from each other |
| 23:05.21 | infinity0 | ah ok |
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| 23:06.24 | SRabbelier | infinity0: define leave? |
| 23:06.51 | infinity0 | as in shutdown search operations, i think |
| 23:07.06 | infinity0 | but anyway this is from random internet sources, if google employees tell me otherwise then meh |
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| 23:07.22 | SRabbelier | infinity0: haven't they already? |
| 23:07.34 | micahcowan | That's what I was wondering. |
| 23:07.46 | danderson | infinity0: note that I didn't say otherwise. |
| 23:07.58 | danderson | I don't know, as a matter of fact. |
| 23:08.18 | danderson | What I do know, is that the press tends to make a lot of things up when it comes to Google, or extrapolate wildly and inaccurately |
| 23:08.22 | galiven | I'm having trouble finding a reference for my info |
| 23:08.24 | galiven | :-/ |
| 23:08.42 | danderson | so, I'm just saying, if it's not from an official Google blog, you may want to take it with a grain of salt |
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| 23:09.21 | galiven | here: http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/03/18/china.google.report/index.html |
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| 23:09.28 | infinity0 | ok |
| 23:09.28 | galiven | about the 6th paragraph |
| 23:09.44 | galiven | march 31 deadline to renew |
| 23:10.03 | kblin | which reminds me.. |
| 23:10.06 | infinity0 | SRabbelier: what do you mean, already shut down search? |
| 23:10.20 | SRabbelier | infinity0: google.cn is redirecting? |
| 23:10.23 | kblin | I need to sign back to university by that date :) |
| 23:10.41 | SRabbelier | kblin: hehe :P |
| 23:10.49 | SRabbelier | kblin: didn't know you study in China ;);) |
| 23:10.51 | infinity0 | SRabbelier: oh, ok, i only found that out in the past few minutes |
| 23:11.05 | SRabbelier | infinity0: you read the Google blog post now? |
| 23:11.10 | infinity0 | yeah |
| 23:11.34 | kblin | SRabbelier: no, our firewall is less restrictive |
| 23:11.48 | SRabbelier | kblin: if only by a bit? :D |
| 23:12.20 | kblin | well, so far the only outgoing filter I've seen was on port 25 |
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| 23:37.25 | LtGenJones | Hello? |
| 23:37.36 | robbyoconnor | hi? |
| 23:37.40 | LtGenJones | This is my first time using irc |
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| 23:38.01 | LtGenJones | I didn't know if anyone was here or not |
| 23:38.19 | LtGenJones | Hey have you participated in the gsoc program before? |
| 23:38.50 | Catfish_Man | yes I have, as a mentor |
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| 23:39.50 | LtGenJones | Oh awesome, I want to participate next year and I thought it would be a good time to start preparing right now |
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| 23:40.29 | LtGenJones | I am trying to set reasonable goals for myself to develop a resume good enough to be accepted as a student in the program |
| 23:41.01 | robbyoconnor | !faq |
| 23:41.02 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs |
| 23:41.23 | robbyoconnor | LtGenJones: if you wanna participate -- learn how to be self-sufficient and do research independently ;) |
| 23:41.26 | robbyoconnor | :D |
| 23:42.18 | LtGenJones | Ok I see what you are saying, but the faq gave a very general answer for How to Prepare |
| 23:43.01 | LtGenJones | and I thought that this would be considered research, although probably not very independent |
| 23:43.58 | madman91 | Hey guys, I'd like to apply to GSoC, but I don't know if I'm good enough. Is there a way to find out? Because most of the project ideas seem fairly difficult |
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| 23:45.38 | LtGenJones | So how does one research the gsoc program without actually chatting with people who have participated? |
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| 23:46.26 | Dark_Shikari | you don't need a "resume", you need to write code |
| 23:46.32 | Dark_Shikari | your resume is your work |
| 23:46.42 | Dark_Shikari | if you want to convince a project to accept you, start working and submit patches |
| 23:46.43 | Dark_Shikari | get involved |
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| 23:47.24 | Catfish_Man | madman91: in the end it comes down to "can you convince a mentoring organization you can do it". If you don't think you can, you probably can't convince anyone else |
| 23:47.36 | Catfish_Man | so work on projects, try things, and get skills and confidence :) |
| 23:47.58 | killerchicken | madman91: usually it's not about how difficult a project is, but how interested you are in it. If you like the community around the project, and they're nice and helpful, and you are dedicated, you almost certainly are good enough. |
| 23:48.15 | Catfish_Man | killerchicken: I wouldn't put quite that rosy a spin on things |
| 23:48.35 | killerchicken | hrm. ok. That was my experience as a two-time student so far |
| 23:48.43 | Catfish_Man | for example voice/video for adium, or most projects Dark_Shikari would be mentoring, are likely to be pretty darn difficult technically |
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| 23:48.51 | Catfish_Man | but that's certainly not true of everything |
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| 23:49.52 | killerchicken | hm. maybe I didn't put it right. I think it's hard to join the community if you lack the technical abilities. |
| 23:50.04 | Dark_Shikari | but what are "technical abilities"? |
| 23:50.19 | *** join/#gsoc voicu_gabriel (~kvirc@188.25.175.177) |
| 23:50.19 | Catfish_Man | that depends on the project |
| 23:50.41 | Dark_Shikari | a lot of our projects require or recommend assembly programming skill... but last year, one of our three students had ZERO asm experience whatsoever and ended up needing to write some |
| 23:50.46 | Dark_Shikari | he learned in a few hours. |
| 23:51.01 | Dark_Shikari | so is "assembly programming" a "technical ability"? |
| 23:51.08 | Dark_Shikari | Or is it something you learn in a few hours? |
| 23:51.20 | killerchicken | it is something you learn in a few hours if you have the technical ability. |
| 23:51.27 | Dark_Shikari | Then how do you measure technical ability? ;) |
| 23:51.28 | killerchicken | that's how I define it, fwiw |
| 23:51.31 | killerchicken | you don't |
| 23:51.32 | Dark_Shikari | (I like that definition) |
| 23:52.17 | killerchicken | I think you can only show your mentoring org you have that ability if you join the community before the application period ends ;) |
| 23:52.21 | LtGenJones | How much assistance do mentors provide during the program? If that's even measurable |
| 23:52.38 | killerchicken | LtGenJones: that heavily depends on many things. Can't really say. |
| 23:52.53 | Dark_Shikari | depends on the mentor, your project, the open source project |
| 23:52.54 | Dark_Shikari | and you |
| 23:53.06 | Catfish_Man | yeah, one year I had a student who was clearly a better programmer than I was |
| 23:53.09 | Dark_Shikari | our policy is that we are available basically all day to answer any question whatsoever |
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| 23:53.16 | Dark_Shikari | and we can answer basically any question whatsoever |
| 23:53.17 | Dark_Shikari | BUT |
| 23:53.18 | Catfish_Man | I just got out of his way and let him work, except for helping with org interactions |
| 23:53.22 | Dark_Shikari | we won't write their code |
| 23:53.26 | ojwb | many mentors have day jobs though |
| 23:53.28 | ojwb | it varies a lot |
| 23:53.43 | LtGenJones | So basically, the student is working on a project that the mentor could fix instantly if they wanted to? |
| 23:53.45 | Dark_Shikari | our general requirement is we like students that can convert "answers to questions" into "code" |
| 23:53.53 | Dark_Shikari | LtGenJones: almost never |
| 23:53.53 | ojwb | LtGenJones: no, not usually |
| 23:53.57 | LtGenJones | oh |
| 23:54.13 | killerchicken | that would be totally a waste of the mentor's time |
| 23:54.14 | Dark_Shikari | at least at our project, we take freaking hard projects that we are too annoyed to do |
| 23:54.17 | Dark_Shikari | and pass them off to the students ;) |
| 23:54.23 | LtGenJones | lol |
| 23:54.25 | killerchicken | Dark_Shikari: what's your project ;) |
| 23:54.30 | Dark_Shikari | killerchicken: http://wiki.videolan.org/SoC_x264_2010 |
| 23:55.07 | Dark_Shikari | If any of those projects were "easy" or "low effort", they would have been done last thursday. |
| 23:55.16 | Dark_Shikari | and this is true of most SoC projects |
| 23:55.23 | Dark_Shikari | there's no point in a really easy GSOC project |
| 23:55.43 | robbyoconnor | LtGenJones: look at the list of orgs |
| 23:55.47 | robbyoconnor | find one that interests you |
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| 23:55.50 | robbyoconnor | look at their idea page |
| 23:55.56 | Dark_Shikari | and yeah, that. |
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| 23:56.00 | robbyoconnor | this isn't rocket science |
| 23:56.02 | Dark_Shikari | s/one/many/ |
| 23:56.03 | killerchicken | Dark_Shikari: right. Looking forward to being a mentor myself this year |
| 23:56.50 | ojwb | I'd say none of the 3 projects I've been involved in mentoring could I have implemented in less time than I spent mentoring |
| 23:57.02 | LtGenJones | oh wow |
| 23:57.06 | robbyoconnor | LtGenJones: you've been following the discussion list right? |
| 23:57.12 | LtGenJones | yes |
| 23:57.13 | Dark_Shikari | I would say I could have implemented any student project in 1-6 weeks full time |
| 23:57.14 | sxw | ojwb: That's true of the mentoring I've done too. |
| 23:57.15 | Dark_Shikari | significantly less than the full summer |
| 23:57.20 | pygi | Dark_Shikari, it seems hard to take part in x264 soc unless you already contribute to it |
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| 23:57.27 | robbyoconnor | MANY questions have been asked there! |
| 23:57.31 | robbyoconnor | learn from those! |
| 23:57.32 | Dark_Shikari | pygi: None of the people looking to apply this year have contributed before. |
| 23:57.45 | LtGenJones | roger |
| 23:57.48 | Dark_Shikari | Last year, only one student had contributed before, and by "contributed" I mean "wrote a couple configure script patches" |
| 23:58.23 | pygi | Dark_Shikari, "# Add some audio handling framework to the main x264 CLI app. " this is supposed to sound sane? :D |
| 23:58.33 | Dark_Shikari | pygi: it's the easiest project |
| 23:58.39 | robbyoconnor | LtGenJones: People who: 1) can't read list archives (do research) 2) can't learn to find information on a website which is designed quite elegently 3) find an org they like (or several) and find info on that org (using various tools -- sayyyyy google) |
| 23:58.46 | Dark_Shikari | it's basically a game of "learn lots of APIs, write a little bit of code" |
| 23:58.51 | ojwb | one of them would probably have taken me comparable time to what the student spent on it |
| 23:58.57 | pygi | Dark_Shikari, I even have no idea what that would mean, and I lead, maintain and contribute to several projects |
| 23:58.57 | robbyoconnor | if a person cannot do that, they probably don't belong in the program as harsh as this sounds |
| 23:59.05 | Dark_Shikari | pygi: Make the program handle audio input and output. |
| 23:59.12 | robbyoconnor | your mentor isn't gonna want to hold your hand EVERY step of the way |
| 23:59.32 | *** part/#gsoc killerchicken (~killerchi@port-92-194-72-25.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 23:59.52 | Dark_Shikari | anyways, clarified that ;) |