| 00:00.29 | robbyoconnor | (i don't mean to sound like an ass -- just seen a lot of people who probably don't belong in the program due to the inability to try and find info before asking) |
| 00:00.31 | pygi | Dark_Shikari, optimization is fun :D |
| 00:00.35 | robbyoconnor | or reading the FAQ FIRST |
| 00:00.50 | Dark_Shikari | pygi: our most successful 2008 student (and 2009 mentor) believes that said task is the hardest there is |
| 00:00.54 | Dark_Shikari | he doesn't think he could do it |
| 00:00.58 | Dark_Shikari | at least on x86 |
| 00:01.04 | Dark_Shikari | he's not entirely sure it's actually possible |
| 00:01.28 | pygi | sigh :) |
| 00:01.36 | Dark_Shikari | He's a scary assembly programmer |
| 00:01.39 | Dark_Shikari | I mean, I thought I was decent |
| 00:01.46 | Dark_Shikari | then I mentored him |
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| 00:02.07 | robbyoconnor | ouch lol |
| 00:02.36 | Dark_Shikari | he actually got paid extra cash after SoC by a corporate sponsor of ours--he needed money and they were willing to pay him to finish up a patch that would give an overall 10-15% speed increase |
| 00:03.00 | Dark_Shikari | being a student can be profitable too =p |
| 00:03.02 | pygi | Dark_Shikari, ouch, that's a lot of speed |
| 00:03.14 | pygi | takes back what he said about it being interesting |
| 00:03.17 | robbyoconnor | what org? |
| 00:03.21 | LtGenJones | robbyoconnor: I understand what you're saying and I understand the reason for the harsh-sounding responses, but I have tried to look up some of these answers before and I thought it would be more helpful to get a personal answer |
| 00:03.38 | robbyoconnor | LtGenJones: that's always easier |
| 00:03.40 | Dark_Shikari | LtGenJones: a personal answer comes from the organization you're interested in |
| 00:03.50 | Dark_Shikari | you can't give a specific answer to a general problem |
| 00:03.59 | robbyoconnor | but i've seen A LOT of "I'm not a student, am i eligible?" |
| 00:04.10 | robbyoconnor | well gee, read the FAQ, it's answered, quite clearly! |
| 00:04.31 | robbyoconnor | granted *SOME* werent as cut and dry but few and far between |
| 00:04.50 | robbyoconnor | now's the time you go to your orgs and stop bugging the general gsoc community :) |
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| 00:05.38 | Dark_Shikari | =p |
| 00:05.48 | Catfish_Man | robbyoconnor: I'm pretty sure the FAQ doesn't cover the unicorn bakery |
| 00:06.10 | robbyoconnor | how is that gsoc related? |
| 00:06.37 | Catfish_Man | it's #gsoc lore from '06 |
| 00:06.39 | Catfish_Man | don't mind me :) |
| 00:06.45 | Dark_Shikari | lol |
| 00:06.50 | Dark_Shikari | what's the story behind that one anyways? |
| 00:06.54 | Dark_Shikari | has only been here for 3 years |
| 00:07.10 | Catfish_Man | I honestly don't remember. It was something we came up with while discussing writing an OS in Malbolge |
| 00:07.16 | downeym | if you can't read FAQ's before asking questions, you'll likely not get selected :) questions are ok, but smart questions are better. |
| 00:07.29 | downeym | http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
| 00:07.57 | Dark_Shikari | downeym: always a good link |
| 00:08.18 | robbyoconnor | you'll instantly find the stupid ones :) |
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| 00:10.45 | LtGenJones | robbyoconnor: The GSOC website's answer to "How do I prepare for Google Summer of Code" is don't wait, get started now, find some projects, and idle in irc channels |
| 00:11.05 | robbyoconnor | exactly |
| 00:11.06 | Dark_Shikari | LtGenJones: which is accurate |
| 00:11.12 | downeym | +1 |
| 00:11.15 | robbyoconnor | that imples: 1) look at the project lisst |
| 00:11.16 | LtGenJones | That wasn't terribly helpful, so I decided to come to an irc channel, since the ogre channel is abandoned |
| 00:11.17 | robbyoconnor | 2) find an org |
| 00:11.23 | LtGenJones | done |
| 00:11.24 | robbyoconnor | 3) lurk in their channel, mailing list etc |
| 00:11.26 | downeym | this is not the channel to idle in :) |
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| 00:11.36 | robbyoconnor | reading comphreension is also a requirement. |
| 00:11.45 | LtGenJones | and spelling? |
| 00:11.47 | robbyoconnor | (not necessarily the ability to spell!) |
| 00:11.49 | downeym | lol |
| 00:11.49 | LtGenJones | lol |
| 00:11.59 | robbyoconnor | just be able to read |
| 00:12.00 | Dark_Shikari | LtGenJones: personally if I was a student |
| 00:12.04 | Dark_Shikari | I wouldn't apply to a project without active irc |
| 00:12.21 | robbyoconnor | I wouldn't apply to a project without knowing what you're getting yourself into |
| 00:12.38 | robbyoconnor | ...im not sure I would have applied for my project if i knew allll the work it was gonna take |
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| 00:12.46 | robbyoconnor | and how hard it was gonna be |
| 00:12.52 | Dark_Shikari | robbyoconnor: often that's a good thing |
| 00:12.54 | downeym | The point is this: Find out how the project you like communicates, then try to join those people in communicating (in a polite way) |
| 00:13.00 | Dark_Shikari | I've gotten into many things that were far more work than I expected |
| 00:13.01 | robbyoconnor | I jumped in head first |
| 00:13.06 | Dark_Shikari | yet when I was done, I was still glad I did it |
| 00:13.07 | robbyoconnor | project failed, but i didn't :) |
| 00:13.24 | robbyoconnor | I have a successful 2009 project in an unstable state currently |
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| 00:13.35 | Dark_Shikari | I have some parts of a resin model on my desk. If I had known how much work it would be to make this thing, I would have never even CONSIDERED it >_> |
| 00:13.45 | Dark_Shikari | But I know when I'm done, it'll look really cool, so I won't regret it. |
| 00:13.52 | Dark_Shikari | And I know I can't stop in the middle, because that would be really lame. |
| 00:13.55 | Dark_Shikari | Same thing applies to SOC. |
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| 00:14.22 | sreich | meh, half-finished projects ftw ;-) |
| 00:14.30 | sreich | you can collect more of them that way |
| 00:14.32 | Dark_Shikari | it's worse for physical projects though |
| 00:14.34 | Dark_Shikari | because they sit on your desk |
| 00:14.35 | Dark_Shikari | and every day |
| 00:14.37 | Dark_Shikari | they STARE AT YOU |
| 00:14.41 | LtGenJones | lol |
| 00:14.42 | Dark_Shikari | and you are reminded about how you didn't finish it |
| 00:14.52 | Dark_Shikari | Which is a good way to finish projects |
| 00:14.54 | downeym | Some examples of questions ... Stupid: I can't get the code from project foo to compile. Why is it broken? ... Smart: The code from project foo doesn't compile under Nulix version 6.2. I've read the FAQ, but it doesn't have anything in it about Nulix-related problems. Here's a transcript of my compilation attempt; is it something I did? |
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| 00:14.56 | sreich | well, unless you convince yourself that it's half-finished self *was* the end of the project |
| 00:14.56 | Dark_Shikari | even for digital projects, stick them on your desktop |
| 00:14.58 | sreich | :D |
| 00:15.03 | downeym | (courtesy esr) |
| 00:15.06 | Dark_Shikari | and make them remind you every day that you're not done. |
| 00:15.17 | marcovb | good night everybody |
| 00:15.27 | Dark_Shikari | downeym: the doom9 rules have a great set of bad ways to ask questions |
| 00:15.30 | Dark_Shikari | "What's the best X?!?!?!?" |
| 00:15.51 | robbyoconnor | I have this old professor @ my school who teaches digital electronics |
| 00:15.56 | robbyoconnor | she plays DOOM! |
| 00:16.05 | robbyoconnor | she looks like a grandmother and played DOOM! |
| 00:16.06 | downeym | Dark_Shikari: I am particularly loving the "tell me how to start" GSoC "questions" :) |
| 00:16.09 | robbyoconnor | COME ON!!!!! |
| 00:16.14 | robbyoconnor | how can she not be cool! |
| 00:16.33 | Dark_Shikari | downeym: lol |
| 00:16.43 | Dark_Shikari | well, it is a good question |
| 00:16.44 | holger | to apply into gsoc: feel certain you have it in you to do something useful. and feel free to admit you're not quite there yet. my project was ok with what i delivered anyway (which wasn't much). and then i suddenly found some more. which got me a diploma thesis and the project some serious speedup in a part of the code where that was entirely unexpected |
| 00:16.48 | Dark_Shikari | it's just a question that has a very simple answer ;) |
| 00:17.07 | Dark_Shikari | holger being the student I mentioned earlier ;) |
| 00:17.30 | downeym | holger: release early, release often |
| 00:17.34 | downeym | glares at robbyoconnor |
| 00:17.37 | downeym | :) |
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| 00:18.35 | robbyoconnor | downeym: hey! her class was a joke! I got an A LOL |
| 00:18.39 | holger | reads backlog. |
| 00:18.45 | robbyoconnor | her midterm was funny to take |
| 00:18.45 | downeym | i want a mac port of duke nukem |
| 00:18.47 | holger | yeah. that pretty much sums it up |
| 00:19.24 | robbyoconnor | sadly -- a friend of mine is struggling lol |
| 00:19.29 | LtGenJones | Is he the crazy assembly programmer! |
| 00:19.34 | robbyoconnor | she |
| 00:19.37 | robbyoconnor | and no |
| 00:19.40 | LtGenJones | oh |
| 00:19.43 | robbyoconnor | there was no programming in this course :) |
| 00:20.22 | Dark_Shikari | LtGenJones: yes, holger is. |
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| 00:20.50 | robbyoconnor | holger: wait you're crazy? |
| 00:20.59 | sreich | robbyoconnor: eh? what was it? |
| 00:21.36 | robbyoconnor | If a schizophrenic is deaf, do they still hear voices? |
| 00:21.46 | robbyoconnor | (Note: I'm hard of hearing!) |
| 00:21.57 | robbyoconnor | not necessarily the first bit eh |
| 00:22.04 | summatusmentis | hi all |
| 00:22.05 | robbyoconnor | takes back the joke... |
| 00:22.13 | robbyoconnor | BAD joke |
| 00:22.20 | sreich | well, it depends.. |
| 00:22.22 | robbyoconnor | erases everybody's buffer! |
| 00:22.45 | sreich | obviously they wouldn't hear physical people's voices |
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| 00:23.07 | robbyoconnor | http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs472.ash1/25903_391219521688_639846688_4270480_2561545_n.jpg |
| 00:23.10 | robbyoconnor | LOL |
| 00:23.27 | summatusmentis | that's.... older than the internet >.> |
| 00:24.09 | holger | let's just say most people are going to go "wtf" at you if you start talking about asm opts. even my diploma father was. and he didn't give me that 1,0 i was aiming for in the end. this was just too low level for him i guess. got a 1,3 |
| 00:25.02 | Dark_Shikari | lol european grading system |
| 00:25.14 | robbyoconnor | US > * |
| 00:25.31 | Dark_Shikari | lol US grade inflation |
| 00:25.52 | holger | (i knew when he was inquiring about the c compiler opts i compared the asm to. yes. this was gcc on full optimization. yes, the asm being 10x faster or more wasn't in error) |
| 00:26.29 | Dark_Shikari | lol |
| 00:26.36 | Dark_Shikari | >trusting a compiler to generate fast code |
| 00:26.44 | Dark_Shikari | >trusting autovectorization |
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| 00:29.36 | LtGenJones | Dark_Shikari:You said that this time, none of the prospective students had previously contributed to x264, does that mean a student who has contributed to it would have a substantially greater chance of being selected or is it just slightly preferred? |
| 00:29.48 | holger | Dark_Shikari: if anyone should be crazy enough to take on asm opts i'd be happy to mentor again. told j-b the same for vlc |
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| 00:29.56 | robbyoconnor | LtGenJones: yes |
| 00:30.02 | robbyoconnor | the org knows what they're getting into |
| 00:30.10 | robbyoconnor | (that's how i'd say) |
| 00:30.26 | robbyoconnor | LtGenJones: ultimately, it's the student with the best laid out plans |
| 00:30.34 | LtGenJones | ok then, for the next year, that's all I'll be doing |
| 00:30.43 | robbyoconnor | uhm |
| 00:30.46 | robbyoconnor | why not now? |
| 00:31.00 | robbyoconnor | you still have a chance |
| 00:31.05 | robbyoconnor | just have to really shine :P |
| 00:31.26 | holger | LtGenJones: the ppl contributing already are not exactly eligible for gsoc. (or wait, Dark_Shikari probably is ;) |
| 00:31.50 | LtGenJones | Well my programming portfolio is almost imaginary |
| 00:32.01 | robbyoconnor | LtGenJones: well, show your stuff |
| 00:32.07 | robbyoconnor | start coding *NOW* |
| 00:32.25 | Dark_Shikari | LtGenJones: substantially greater |
| 00:32.46 | Dark_Shikari | But we don't really do much "hiring our own people" |
| 00:32.53 | Dark_Shikari | ffmpeg did that at one point and the guy got really lazy |
| 00:33.01 | Dark_Shikari | because he knew he was "in" no matter what |
| 00:33.22 | LtGenJones | so it just became free money almost |
| 00:33.26 | ojwb | i know some orgs avoid doing that |
| 00:33.34 | Dark_Shikari | some projects do basically do it for free money |
| 00:33.38 | robbyoconnor | hopefully mine doesn't :) |
| 00:33.43 | Dark_Shikari | we have someone, he's going to be doing X, let's make him a student |
| 00:34.10 | robbyoconnor | my first year, i was a shoe-in |
| 00:34.13 | Dark_Shikari | it looks good to google too, because it often increases success rates |
| 00:34.16 | Dark_Shikari | but IMO it's a bad idea. |
| 00:34.25 | robbyoconnor | my second year, not so much |
| 00:34.33 | ojwb | Dark_Shikari: OTOH, that can be valid - if the person doing X would need to take a summer job to pay the bills, they couldn't do X in that time |
| 00:34.35 | robbyoconnor | but i got in |
| 00:34.43 | Dark_Shikari | ojwb: yeah, it can be valid |
| 00:34.48 | LtGenJones | Dark_Shikari: what do you mean it looks good to google? |
| 00:34.53 | Dark_Shikari | LtGenJones: higher success rate |
| 00:34.55 | ojwb | personally I'd be cautious |
| 00:34.55 | holger | i should get re-enrolled for postgrad no matter what and just become a student again. but wait. the project i would be aiming for is almost impossible. now what? |
| 00:35.29 | Dark_Shikari | holger: learn to work on the real part of the encoder that matters ;) |
| 00:35.57 | LtGenJones | robbyoconnor: How were you a shoe-in your first year? What did you do? |
| 00:36.13 | robbyoconnor | LtGenJones: the project admins pushed me to apply |
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| 00:36.22 | LtGenJones | oh lol |
| 00:36.35 | robbyoconnor | I didnt even actually know my project! |
| 00:36.37 | robbyoconnor | LOL |
| 00:36.41 | robbyoconnor | the project itself failed |
| 00:36.56 | robbyoconnor | in fact, I just recently killed it |
| 00:37.08 | robbyoconnor | (aka i'm not gonna focus energy on it anymore) |
| 00:37.22 | robbyoconnor | I would basically be duplicating a ton of code |
| 00:37.42 | holger | Dark_Shikari: as you may well know by now, i am going to go for different experiences first ;) |
| 00:37.55 | Dark_Shikari | different experiences? says mr. still doing asm? =p |
| 00:37.55 | robbyoconnor | holger: you're nuts |
| 00:38.14 | robbyoconnor | I hate asm |
| 00:38.40 | holger | says mr. going to change diapers on his son |
| 00:38.41 | Dark_Shikari | but it's great |
| 00:38.44 | LtGenJones | I'm going to spend a year learning it so I can get a spot |
| 00:38.48 | Dark_Shikari | the computer does exactly what you tell it to |
| 00:38.48 | Dark_Shikari | =p |
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| 00:39.25 | LtGenJones | any gsoc projects use Lisp that you know of? |
| 00:40.07 | LtGenJones | oh wait, nevermind, that one of those questions I could have looked up before asking |
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| 00:40.21 | LtGenJones | lol I'm still reading this long essay on how to ask questions |
| 00:40.30 | Dark_Shikari | it's a good essay ;) |
| 00:40.52 | sreich | which one was that? |
| 00:40.57 | Catfish_Man | ugh. VPN over bus irc is so slow :( |
| 00:41.01 | holger | robbyoconnor: asm is f*cking great. you can't blame anyone but yourself if it doesn't do what you want it to |
| 00:41.20 | robbyoconnor | that's just it! |
| 00:41.36 | robbyoconnor | !orgbylang |
| 00:41.36 | socinfo | "orgbylang" is 2009 list is work in progress: http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/bundle:Languages |
| 00:41.44 | robbyoconnor | most orgs are in this year |
| 00:41.52 | LtGenJones | http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
| 00:42.04 | holger | so where is fedora this year? anyone know? |
| 00:42.10 | LtGenJones | hiding |
| 00:42.34 | robbyoconnor | i think they got shot out back |
| 00:42.39 | robbyoconnor | check the dumpster |
| 00:42.40 | robbyoconnor | :P |
| 00:42.50 | LtGenJones | its hiding from this monstrous os I'm making with visual basic |
| 00:43.16 | robbyoconnor | .... |
| 00:43.24 | robbyoconnor | visual.... basic? |
| 00:43.30 | LtGenJones | jealous... |
| 00:43.31 | robbyoconnor | hold on one second |
| 00:43.34 | robbyoconnor | HHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAA |
| 00:43.37 | LtGenJones | lol |
| 00:43.41 | robbyoconnor | LtGenJones: no, in fact i'm laughing at you |
| 00:43.54 | robbyoconnor | that's not a language, it's a joke by MS |
| 00:44.04 | ojwb | holger: not accepted according to their wiki page |
| 00:44.19 | holger | ojwb: link? |
| 00:44.36 | LtGenJones | oh dang, I forgot, I'm a noob so i cant make jokes like that or ppl might think i actually am trying |
| 00:44.56 | ojwb | (lmgtfy) http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/GSoC_2010 |
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| 00:46.15 | robbyoconnor | LtGenJones: what programming language do you know? |
| 00:46.24 | robbyoconnor | or languages |
| 00:46.24 | LtGenJones | I need a new project to follow, Dark_Shikari forbade me from trying Ogre |
| 00:46.59 | LtGenJones | I think I'm about an intermediate programmer in C++, I'm trying to learn c#, and thats it |
| 00:47.17 | holger | ojwb: i never understood the jboss.org part |
| 00:47.27 | robbyoconnor | so only C++ and learning C#? |
| 00:47.38 | LtGenJones | yep |
| 00:47.44 | robbyoconnor | hmm |
| 00:47.53 | robbyoconnor | a lot of KDE is written in C++ |
| 00:47.56 | robbyoconnor | look at that org |
| 00:48.02 | LtGenJones | gotcha |
| 00:48.10 | robbyoconnor | GNOME is written in C |
| 00:48.26 | robbyoconnor | pidgin is in C as well. |
| 00:48.31 | Catfish_Man | is WebKit or Chrome participating this year? They're both interesting C++ projects |
| 00:48.40 | robbyoconnor | they have to be |
| 00:48.47 | robbyoconnor | melange is a django app |
| 00:50.12 | sreich | LtGenJones: ah yes, I'm surprised at how a lot of this is not put into common practice (i.e. common sense) |
| 00:50.25 | sreich | remebers reading this some time ago.. |
| 00:50.41 | LtGenJones | what? |
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| 00:50.53 | robbyoconnor | LtGenJones: so follow those |
| 00:51.02 | sreich | LtGenJones: oh sorry, talking about the essay |
| 00:51.09 | robbyoconnor | KDE, GNOME, Chrome/Webkit, pick one :) |
| 00:51.18 | robbyoconnor | if the third is there |
| 00:51.26 | robbyoconnor | :> I never looked at the list I have my org selected :) |
| 00:57.22 | jall | chromium is, aye. |
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| 01:09.52 | cmurillo | n |
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| 01:43.06 | xster | anyone worked with nmap in the past? |
| 01:43.19 | ferringb | mmm? |
| 01:43.41 | ferringb | expects a lot of people here have used it... although you're probably asking about nmap as a gSoC target? |
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| 01:45.16 | tontoto | in the movie battle royale they edit the source code for nmap |
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| 01:59.02 | xster | tontoto: lol rly? haven't noticed |
| 01:59.26 | xster | ya, as a soc project, they seem quite interesting |
| 02:00.58 | robbyoconnor | ive yused it |
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| 02:17.21 | jbourne3 | !next |
| 02:17.22 | socinfo | "next" is March 29th -- student applications are then officially opened, but you can talk to participating organizations now already :) |
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| 06:27.51 | ritek | !next |
| 06:27.51 | socinfo | "next" is March 29th -- student applications are then officially opened, but you can talk to participating organizations now already :) |
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| 07:10.41 | ozan | hi, is there any restrictions on students which want to apply for the same organization that they worked last year? |
| 07:11.02 | skbohra | ozan: depends solely on org |
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| 07:11.21 | skbohra | if you are working with org since last year you must have understanding imo |
| 07:12.18 | ozan | skbohra: ok, so google doesn't restrict mentoring organizations for not accepting a student again? |
| 07:12.29 | skbohra | no |
| 07:12.37 | fenn | oh wtf i have to be a college student? |
| 07:12.48 | skbohra | fenn: yes |
| 07:13.01 | fenn | what is the point of that? |
| 07:13.01 | skbohra | essentially |
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| 07:13.16 | skbohra | its a summer job for students to get started with oss |
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| 07:13.55 | fenn | but school is bullshit |
| 07:13.56 | LawnGnome | fenn: The aim of the programme is to effectively allow students to earn the same sort of money they'd earn flipping burgers over the northern hemisphere summer by doing something useful for their future career and open source software instead. |
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| 07:17.58 | sanjoyd | How acceptable is it to submit a preliminary proposal as a PDF? |
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| 07:18.05 | sanjoyd | Just curious. |
| 07:18.30 | dholbach | good morning |
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| 07:20.33 | _Samo | sanjoyd, some organisations recommend interacting with them as soon as they are accepted as a mentoring org |
| 07:21.18 | _Samo | sanjoyd, a preliminary proposal is a very good idea |
| 07:21.28 | fenn | are there any other "invest in open source development" type programs funded by google? |
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| 07:22.00 | fenn | or other organizations.. as long as they're not too restrictive |
| 07:22.39 | skbohra | fenn: some org have their bounty programs |
| 07:23.13 | fenn | i dont have enough time to work on other peoples' problems :\ |
| 07:23.27 | fenn | damn this meat body! |
| 07:23.53 | sanjoyd | I do think GSoC should allow school students. |
| 07:24.24 | sanjoyd | The size of their to-be contribution should be the only thing that matters. |
| 07:24.28 | fenn | GSoC should just fund whatever sounds reasonable |
| 07:24.47 | xnox | !google |
| 07:24.47 | socinfo | "google" is not the cosmic cash machine people think it is. |
| 07:24.58 | rajat | sanjoyd maybe they want greater commitment levels |
| 07:25.14 | fenn | xnox: i beg to differ |
| 07:25.22 | fenn | $5k is peanuts |
| 07:25.46 | fenn | $5M is peanuts |
| 07:25.46 | xnox | $5k * 1000 = $5 000 000 cash! |
| 07:26.04 | ferringb | notes it's pretty easy to state $5M is peanuts when it's not your cash |
| 07:26.07 | ferringb | same goes for $5k |
| 07:26.08 | xnox | fenn, would you mind lending me a few peanuts than? =) |
| 07:26.12 | ferringb | exactly |
| 07:26.21 | sanjoyd | It is not about the money being peanuts. |
| 07:26.21 | fenn | seriously, WORLDWIDE we have only ~$5M in semi-independent software development? |
| 07:26.31 | sanjoyd | The earlier a student is exposed, the better. |
| 07:26.37 | sanjoyd | fenn: That' |
| 07:26.44 | sanjoyd | fenn: That's just a start. |
| 07:27.14 | sanjoyd | fenn: If money is the only thing on your mind you're probably in the wrong place. |
| 07:27.40 | fenn | money is the last thing on my mind but everybody is pestering me about "what are you going to do? what are you going to do?" |
| 07:27.48 | fenn | i thought i had an answer today |
| 07:27.58 | xnox | Considering only 80% success rate and you actually hire all sudents |
| 07:28.07 | xnox | and by the way it costs 5.5k for google per student |
| 07:28.25 | xnox | then with 20% failure google is committing to loose 1.1M |
| 07:28.34 | ferringb | xnox: more, actually. you're forgetting overhead inherint in it, head count dedicated to it, etc. |
| 07:28.38 | xnox | that's pretty risky independ programming |
| 07:28.40 | fenn | what percentage of commercial projects fail? hmm? |
| 07:28.56 | fragalot | I'd only be allowed to work for 20 days >.< |
| 07:28.57 | ferringb | wonders where fenn is going w/ this screed |
| 07:29.01 | fragalot | shakes fist @ the belgian .gov |
| 07:29.02 | xnox | And most of GSoC probably are not worth 5k anyhow |
| 07:29.03 | fenn | and i'm not talking about "slap together another website" |
| 07:29.26 | fenn | ferringb: i'm just pissed and have nowhere to vent but here |
| 07:29.40 | ferringb | venting at folk doing something good |
| 07:29.42 | ferringb | right, good idea. |
| 07:29.54 | fragalot | amazing idea...Where have we seen this before? |
| 07:29.56 | fenn | suggest alternative solution please |
| 07:29.56 | fragalot | OH wait. america |
| 07:29.59 | xnox | so..... google is doing public service here. Investing into future hoping those students will go on to create amazing software |
| 07:30.08 | fragalot | fenn: #defocus ? :P |
| 07:30.12 | sanjoyd | Not really, open source is not about public service. |
| 07:30.16 | fenn | why does everyone love college students? |
| 07:30.17 | sanjoyd | Google profits from it as well. |
| 07:30.27 | fragalot | fenn: they bring in fresh ideas |
| 07:30.30 | sanjoyd | Open Source is an infrastructure. |
| 07:30.30 | fenn | no they don't |
| 07:30.32 | sanjoyd | For instance, |
| 07:30.41 | fenn | they regurgitate whatever they just had rammed down their throats the last 4 years |
| 07:30.48 | sanjoyd | if someone does something really cool with the linux kernel scheduler |
| 07:30.49 | ferringb | err |
| 07:31.06 | sanjoyd | Google, which runs linux on their servers |
| 07:31.10 | sanjoyd | becomes more efficient. |
| 07:31.16 | sanjoyd | It is give and take, really |
| 07:31.34 | sanjoyd | Like spending money on a road so that your cars run faster. |
| 07:31.36 | fenn | open source helps everybody == a public service |
| 07:31.43 | ferringb | sanjoyd: also is the angle of getting a good look at the self selected candidates who would likely be viable google candidates |
| 07:31.54 | sanjoyd | ferringb: Possbily. :) |
| 07:31.56 | ferringb | sanjoyd: beneficial all around either way. |
| 07:32.02 | ferringb | s/possibly// ;) |
| 07:32.19 | sanjoyd | Should've slept. |
| 07:32.22 | sanjoyd | :/ |
| 07:32.26 | ferringb | usually how it goes |
| 07:32.43 | ferringb | "I'll crash after I fix this @!#*ing idiocy"... right. then 5am rolls around. |
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| 07:32.46 | fragalot | I think we can all conclude that there is no downside and therefore there is little point for argument? |
| 07:33.04 | sanjoyd | Except fenn probably. :) |
| 07:33.15 | ferringb | absolutes are notoriously easy to pick a hole in also |
| 07:33.17 | fragalot | I bet he's part of the Tea party. *runs* |
| 07:34.12 | ferringb | notes discussion regarding soc projects is a bit more on topic |
| 07:34.16 | ferringb | same for questions regarding the process |
| 07:34.27 | ferringb | also happens to be a bit less annoying to idle and observe ;) |
| 07:35.16 | fragalot | hehe |
| 07:35.32 | fragalot | I'll go camp outside the postal office for the next half an hour for them to open I tihnk |
| 07:35.36 | fragalot | buhbai! |
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| 07:39.34 | fenn | hmm. "You are eligible to apply if you are enrolled in an accredited pre-university educational program provided you meet all of the other eligibility requirements." |
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| 07:52.03 | fenn | ok solving this "how to look like a student in 19 days" puzzle is not interesting |
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| 08:31.12 | iamteeg | hi |
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| 08:59.30 | headache | hello |
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| 09:12.27 | chaturlingam | hello |
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| 09:12.59 | skbohra | chaturlingam: hi |
| 09:13.10 | skbohra | chaturlingam: are you new to gsoc ? |
| 09:14.14 | chaturlingam | skbohra: jeee, mayein fhirst time gsoc apply karti |
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| 09:15.03 | skbohra | chaturlingam: bahot khoob |
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| 09:22.34 | x` | morning |
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| 09:50.08 | phoneix | hi does registering myself as a mentor for some org , stops a person for applying as a student ? |
| 09:50.22 | phoneix | I mean myself |
| 09:50.37 | skbohra | yes i think |
| 09:50.41 | skbohra | you cant be both |
| 09:51.14 | phoneix | there I am just applying to be a mentor , I am not a mentor |
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| 09:52.36 | phoneix | I thought I could still apply to be an student |
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| 09:59.52 | schumaml | did you check the docs? |
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| 10:35.45 | spsneo | kanzure: hi |
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| 11:14.04 | c_schmitz_ | !timeline |
| 11:14.04 | GHF | Time: |
| 11:14.04 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline |
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| 11:16.06 | __asdf__ | hello.... :) |
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| 11:17.24 | salsaman | hi |
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| 11:38.40 | mess110 | hi |
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| 11:40.24 | mess110 | I wanted to ask a question. there is nothing saying that a student can not apply to multiple organisations correct? |
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| 11:41.35 | loupgaroublond | mess110, no, there isn't, but there are plenty of reasons why you shouldn't |
| 11:42.44 | mess110 | loupgaroublond: thanks. I know. but before the application period starts I want to check more organisations. see what I would like to work with most :) |
| 11:43.03 | loupgaroublond | oh sure |
| 11:43.35 | loupgaroublond | just a) be transparent about it to both orgs, be open about it and b) a good application takes alot of work, don't submit two mediocre ones in place of one good one |
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| 12:15.26 | salsaman | hi |
| 12:16.06 | salsaman | anybody from google here ? |
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| 12:17.50 | mmadia | salsaman : usually it's best to simply ask your question and then have |
| 12:17.53 | mmadia | !patience |
| 12:17.54 | socinfo | "patience" is very important in GSoC. Check !next and the !timeline and go code something useful. |
| 12:18.12 | salsaman | ok, i was wondering what exactly is meant by "accredited" institution |
| 12:19.01 | salsaman | is there a list somewhere ? |
| 12:19.45 | keheliya | !next |
| 12:19.46 | socinfo | "next" is March 29th -- student applications are then officially opened, but you can talk to participating organizations now already :) |
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| 12:20.05 | wiktori | http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2010/03/meet-your-mentors-announcing-accepted.html |
| 12:20.20 | Abhinav1 | salsaman: http://goo.gl/v3Mh |
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| 12:22.35 | salsaman | Abhinav1, thanks |
| 12:22.48 | Abhinav1 | salsaman: np |
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| 13:14.43 | ojwb | PhoenixAFK: you're supposed to decide if you want to apply as a student or a mentor |
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| 13:16.01 | ojwb | to actually be allocated as a mentor to a student, you'd have to do so before you knew if you'd been accepted as a student, so that wouldn't really work |
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| 13:39.13 | _Samo | guys can two students work in the same project? |
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| 13:43.59 | lut4rp | _Samo, nope. |
| 13:44.19 | _Samo | from the faqs: # What happens if two students are accepted to work on the same project, e.g. from an organization's "Ideas" list? |
| 13:44.21 | _Samo | That's fine, a little duplication is par for the course in open source. |
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| 13:44.45 | _Samo | but our question is, is it the stiped shared in this case? |
| 13:44.46 | Mek | sure, they can do both do the same thing, they just can't both do half of that project |
| 13:44.56 | lut4rp | _Samo, no. |
| 13:44.57 | _Samo | or not? |
| 13:45.11 | lut4rp | the project might be dependent on each other (as it happened with me partially last year) |
| 13:45.22 | lut4rp | but the stipend won't be shared |
| 13:45.50 | _Samo | but each student gets his/her own stipend, don't they? |
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| 13:47.17 | lut4rp | yes. |
| 13:47.23 | lut4rp | No stipend sharing. |
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| 13:49.31 | schumaml | the stipend is per accepted (and successful) student, not per idea |
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| 14:39.14 | mdc | woohoo! our IRC channel has gotten lots of students looking to apply. This could be a fun application period :) |
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| 14:49.01 | shivi | mdc: yes. it will definitely be :) |
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| 15:30.15 | saket9999 | can anyone give suggestions how to start for gsoc |
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| 15:33.32 | saket9999 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:33.35 | saket9999 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:33.36 | arun | saket9999, check out http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforStudents |
| 15:33.37 | saket9999 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:33.38 | saket9999 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:33.48 | arun | saket9999, please don't do that. |
| 15:33.51 | saket9999 | thnx |
| 15:33.53 | saket9999 | :) |
| 15:33.54 | blast007 | one suggestion would be to not spam the channel |
| 15:33.59 | blast007 | ;) |
| 15:34.05 | saket9999 | hmm |
| 15:34.10 | saket9999 | no replyin so |
| 15:34.17 | mmadia | !patience |
| 15:34.18 | socinfo | "patience" is very important in GSoC. Check !next and the !timeline and go code something useful. |
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| 15:34.44 | saket9999 | thnq all |
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| 15:34.45 | arun | saket9999, that's really anti-social irc behavior. you probably didn't know that, but that sort of behavior can get you kicked from the channel. |
| 15:34.57 | saket9999 | omg |
| 15:35.28 | saket9999 | =-O |
| 15:35.34 | hypa7ia | saket9999: also, if you're 12 as you appear to be, you don't qualify |
| 15:35.40 | hypa7ia | just sayin' |
| 15:36.01 | saket9999 | :D |
| 15:36.53 | arun | ouch |
| 15:36.56 | mmadia | i think what hypa7ia means, using language skills that are appropriate for conversing with employers is appreciated. |
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| 15:37.12 | saket9999 | sorry |
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| 15:45.46 | kblin | saket9999: arun was completely right, if I had been online 15 minutes ago, you would have earned a kick |
| 15:45.59 | kblin | saket9999: please don't do that again |
| 15:47.34 | hypa7ia | saket9999: don't PM me. |
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| 15:49.52 | x` | he's trouble :) |
| 15:50.09 | kageiit | y whats he upto? |
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| 15:50.31 | x` | gut feeling, that's all |
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| 15:51.25 | x` | i'm finding more and more interesting things as i read through the orgs' ideas lists ... a good selection indeed! |
| 15:51.30 | kblin | now let's all pretend to be grown-ups again, underage mentors excluded :) |
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| 15:52.27 | x` | ;) |
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| 15:58.48 | hollowman | i am an undergraduate and know php,c,C++ which area do u prefer to start? |
| 15:59.35 | loupgaroublond | hollowman, find a mentoring organisation you would love to work for, and start talking to them |
| 15:59.39 | infinity0 | hollowman: pick a project that interests you, see http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
| 15:59.41 | hypa7ia | hollowman: start by typing /topic and look at the links there :) |
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| 16:01.27 | kblin | !orgsbylang |
| 16:01.27 | socinfo | "orgsbylang" is The 2009 list is work in progress: http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/bundle:Languages |
| 16:01.54 | summatusmentis | that's last year |
| 16:02.08 | hypa7ia | should stil mostly apply |
| 16:02.14 | hypa7ia | we should update it for this year tho |
| 16:02.19 | summatusmentis | granted |
| 16:02.20 | hollowman | i mean i will not be able to understand some of projects also |
| 16:04.11 | kitallis | hollowman, saket9999? :P |
| 16:04.32 | hollowman | yup |
| 16:04.37 | shreyas | LOL |
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| 16:04.52 | hollowman | friend id |
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| 16:07.07 | kblin | summatusmentis: patches welcome |
| 16:07.26 | summatusmentis | I'm spending my time to build a time machine instead >.> |
| 16:07.55 | kblin | can't you do this later? |
| 16:08.05 | summatusmentis | debatably |
| 16:08.05 | kblin | or earler, time machines tend to confuse me |
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| 16:44.22 | ScottMac | any googlers about? |
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| 16:49.35 | mlankhorst | ScottMac: just ask your question and maybe we can help.. |
| 16:50.03 | ScottMac | whats the easiest way to get from the mountain view caltrain station to the Big Table lunch cafe |
| 16:50.04 | ScottMac | :P |
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| 16:50.49 | mlankhorst | ScottMac: maps.google.com |
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| 16:51.02 | ScottMac | mlankhorst: i mean is there a Google shuttle |
| 16:51.12 | ScottMac | that takes staff from the caltrain to the campus |
| 16:51.13 | ScottMac | I assume so |
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| 16:52.17 | mlankhorst | presumably, but that's not a question to ask here.. |
| 16:52.37 | mlankhorst | so instead ask the person who invited you to come to there |
| 16:52.42 | danderson | and unless you're a googler, no, there is no shuttle. |
| 16:52.58 | ScottMac | i sent him a dm, but he's in a meeting |
| 16:53.11 | danderson | from the caltrain, you can hop into one of the busses that go around the bay area, can't recall which though |
| 16:53.12 | ScottMac | and boo, we let people get our shuttle when they're coming from meetings |
| 16:53.18 | ScottMac | zipcar it is :) |
| 16:53.22 | danderson | and the very simplest is to take a cab, or get someone to pick you up |
| 16:53.38 | Crofton | and, you can drink beer on caltrain |
| 16:53.47 | mlankhorst | danderson: no longer interning? :P |
| 16:53.54 | danderson | ScottMac: I don't have visibility into the shuttle policy, since I don't work in mountain view and frankly couldn't care less about their workarounds for shitty public transportation :P |
| 16:54.03 | ScottMac | heh |
| 16:54.13 | ScottMac | its fine, i'll suck it up and zipcar / cab |
| 16:54.23 | danderson | mlankhorst: nope, I transitioned to the software engineering career ladder |
| 16:54.27 | mlankhorst | aw |
| 16:54.31 | danderson | after making it to Distinguished Senior Intern |
| 16:54.39 | mlankhorst | liked the eternal intern title more |
| 16:55.06 | danderson | I did intern, senior intern, and distinguished intern |
| 16:55.16 | ScottMac | our intern interviews are this week |
| 16:55.20 | ScottMac | I made HR unhappy |
| 16:55.30 | ScottMac | apparently wearing "You can make interns do anything" shirt isn't good |
| 16:55.33 | danderson | and what's my job title now... |
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| 16:55.41 | danderson | darn, just "Software engineer" |
| 16:55.53 | danderson | I need to find a better title than that |
| 16:56.00 | ScottMac | mine is made up |
| 16:56.05 | ScottMac | Open Source Developer Advocate |
| 16:56.08 | danderson | has colleagues who are "Protocol droid" and "Special weapons dalek" |
| 16:56.42 | dho | I'm pretty sure I've been `Software Engineer' for the past 10 years. |
| 16:56.44 | dho | or at least 5 |
| 16:56.45 | mlankhorst | danderson: muahah |
| 16:57.11 | lut4rp | Protocol Droid O_O |
| 16:57.31 | danderson | he worked on i18n at the time |
| 16:57.53 | mlankhorst | danderson: go for 'corporate spy' |
| 16:57.55 | mlankhorst | :> |
| 16:57.58 | danderson | and I think he's with Android now, so it still works out |
| 16:58.05 | dho | danderson: heh. |
| 16:59.12 | ScottMac | my cards say Scottish PHP Ninja |
| 16:59.34 | ScottMac | we're encouraged to come up with a tagline |
| 16:59.42 | anth_x | i liked ended up with a title we couldn't fit on our business cards. |
| 16:59.48 | ScottMac | heh |
| 16:59.50 | LawnGnome | My favourite set of business cards were the ones that proclaimed me as the "Roaming Agent of Chaos". |
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| 17:00.01 | ScottMac | oh I want to do that |
| 17:00.59 | dho | anth_x: heh, at BL? |
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| 17:01.50 | anth_x | no, after that. |
| 17:02.00 | dho | ah. what was it? |
| 17:02.20 | anth_x | i don't even remember. "Process Engineer and Architecture Analyst" i think. something like that. |
| 17:02.39 | anth_x | my boss made it up because we didn't really have a spot for what i was doing. |
| 17:02.39 | dho | Heh. |
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| 17:03.31 | mlankhorst | What about software pirate? |
| 17:03.32 | mlankhorst | :P |
| 17:03.43 | mlankhorst | for those who don't like ninjas |
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| 17:15.33 | micahcowan | *sigh*... melange is 500-ing when I try to submit a home page for GNU (and for nothing else). |
| 17:16.40 | _Samo | hi is there an application I can set up what time is it for diferent people involved in GSoC? |
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| 17:16.48 | brooks | micahcowan: resubmitting the form worked for me |
| 17:17.00 | micahcowan | I've resubmitted twice. |
| 17:17.03 | micahcowan | I'll try sometime later. |
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| 17:17.31 | _Samo | so people can realose their mentors might be actually sleeping |
| 17:18.11 | _Samo | although he is connected to the chat room |
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| 17:22.57 | schumaml | _Samo: how about a custom clock at timeanddate.com ? |
| 17:23.23 | schumaml | or dateandtime.com ? |
| 17:23.35 | robbyoconnor | people need a brain for that |
| 17:23.50 | Catfish_Man | most OSs also have free world clock apps available |
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| 17:24.08 | robbyoconnor | we're programmers |
| 17:24.13 | robbyoconnor | why not write something useful? |
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| 17:24.19 | Catfish_Man | (as in beer; I haven't checked if there are OSS ones, but I assume there are) |
| 17:24.31 | robbyoconnor | there are HUNDREDS |
| 17:24.32 | robbyoconnor | lol |
| 17:24.36 | Waren | yo |
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| 17:32.25 | is0dvil | ; |
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| 17:43.26 | sanjoyd | The link to 'Google Open Source Programs Office' is giving a 404. |
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| 17:46.07 | mdc | sanjoyd: are you using http://socghop.appspot.com/ |
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| 17:47.45 | mdc | Considering the level of traffic on our IRC channel, I'm not surprised that the GSoC servers are straining a bit :) |
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| 17:48.18 | infinity0 | mdc: no he means the link on the list of mentoring orgs page |
| 17:48.21 | infinity0 | i noticed that earlier, too |
| 17:48.28 | mdc | ah, ok |
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| 17:50.27 | mdc | infinity0 sanjoyd does this link work for you? |
| 17:50.27 | mdc | http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
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| 17:51.26 | infinity0 | yes, but the link for the mentoring organisation "Google Open Source Programs Office" points to http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/None |
| 17:52.15 | mdc | infinity0: Sounds like something to report -- not sure if it should be a melange report or an email to OSPO. |
| 17:52.59 | infinity0 | eh, too busy to do that myself atm, i'm sure they will notice soon |
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| 18:04.02 | chx | !timeline |
| 18:04.02 | GHF | Time: |
| 18:04.02 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline |
| 18:04.04 | chx | !next |
| 18:04.04 | socinfo | "next" is March 29th -- student applications are then officially opened, but you can talk to participating organizations now already :) |
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| 18:17.02 | schumaml | IMO s/can/should/ |
| 18:17.21 | StickleBricks | is there a page that lists some of the easier projects? |
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| 18:21.17 | schumaml | probably not |
| 18:21.47 | schumaml | if you can get the orgs to add special tags, then you could filter the orgs list for them |
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| 18:28.38 | infinity0 | the list page has tags, you can filter those manually |
| 18:28.44 | infinity0 | but "easiest" is highly subjective really |
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| 19:03.31 | Subaru | hey, is there anyone here who could answer a few questions for me? |
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| 19:04.47 | thiagoss | !ask |
| 19:04.47 | socinfo | "ask" is Don't ask to ask, just ask. Meta-questions lead to meta-answers and wasted time. |
| 19:04.53 | thiagoss | Subaru: ^^ |
| 19:05.20 | schumaml | and preferably they aren't answered by the FAQ already |
| 19:05.36 | thiagoss | !faq |
| 19:05.36 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs |
| 19:05.59 | schumaml | socinfo: list karma |
| 19:05.59 | socinfo | Error: "list" is not a valid command. |
| 19:06.06 | schumaml | meh |
| 19:06.12 | infinity0 | !commands |
| 19:06.12 | schumaml | socinfo: karma |
| 19:06.12 | socinfo | Highest karma: "socinfo" (3), "danderson" (2), and "mlankhorst" (2). Lowest karma: "i18n" (-2), "libtool" (-1), and "when" OR 1==1;" (-1). |
| 19:06.13 | socinfo | Error: "commands" is not a valid command. |
| 19:06.23 | infinity0 | !help |
| 19:06.24 | socinfo | "help" is !next, !faq, !advice and !wiki. !botabuse tells you about private query syntax |
| 19:06.39 | infinity0 | !botabuse |
| 19:06.40 | socinfo | "botabuse" is (#1) Leave me alone! (also, you can play with me as much as you like in a private /query so as not to spam the channel), or (#2) When in a query with me, use whatis #gsoc <factoid> to get the best use., or (#3) You can also get a list of factoids with 'factoids search #gsoc *' and 'more' |
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| 19:07.23 | infinity0 | see, i tired that a few days ago and it doesn't work |
| 19:07.26 | infinity0 | and it still doesn't |
| 19:07.27 | _buck | bye |
| 19:12.34 | Subaru | factoids search #gsoc * |
| 19:12.37 | Subaru | !factoids search #gsoc * |
| 19:12.37 | socinfo | More than 100 keys matched that query; please narrow your query. |
| 19:12.45 | Subaru | !factoids search #gsoc elegibility |
| 19:12.45 | socinfo | No keys matched that query. |
| 19:12.52 | Subaru | !factoids search #gsoc google |
| 19:12.52 | socinfo | "google" is not the cosmic cash machine people think it is. |
| 19:12.57 | Subaru | O_o |
| 19:13.06 | Subaru | !factoids search #gsoc code |
| 19:13.06 | socinfo | No keys matched that query. |
| 19:13.23 | dhaun | Subaru: can you do that in PMs to the bot, please? |
| 19:13.29 | Subaru | sorry sorry |
| 19:13.43 | micahcowan | dhart, no, because PMs to the bot are broken |
| 19:14.08 | Subaru | no they arent O_o |
| 19:14.17 | micahcowan | Every command gives "no such command". |
| 19:14.59 | Subaru | !factoids works :P |
| 19:14.59 | socinfo | Error: The "Factoids" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "works" in it. Try "list Factoids" to see the commands in the "Factoids" plugin. |
| 19:15.00 | Subaru | ...sorta |
| 19:15.05 | Subaru | -_- |
| 19:15.30 | micahcowan | <socinfo> Error: "factoids" is not a valid command. |
| 19:16.14 | Subaru | try using /query like it tells you to |
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| 19:16.50 | Subaru | wait, maybe /query and /msg are the same thing >_> |
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| 19:17.42 | Subaru | no, it appears they arent |
| 19:17.45 | Subaru | use /query |
| 19:17.46 | micahcowan | They are for me |
| 19:17.46 | Subaru | :P |
| 19:17.50 | Subaru | hm |
| 19:18.07 | Subaru | well i cant test this more because i screwed up and the bots ignoring me atm |
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| 19:21.02 | infinity0 | yeah |
| 19:21.14 | infinity0 | pretty sure /query and /msg are the same |
| 19:21.34 | Subaru | [12:13] <Subaru> !factoids search #gsoc google |
| 19:21.34 | Subaru | [12:13] <socinfo> (factoids search [<channel>] [--values] [--{regexp} <value>] [<glob> ...]) -- Searches the keyspace for keys matching <glob>. If --regexp is given, it associated value is taken as a regexp and matched against the keys. If --values is given, search the value space instead of the keyspace. |
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| 19:24.20 | dhaun | doesn't work with "google" but with "g*", for example |
| 19:24.39 | Subaru | sweet |
| 19:24.58 | dhaun | and then you can use !whatis to look up the factoid |
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| 19:45.44 | abhinav | I am unable to install ASCEND in ubuntu 9.10, it is unable to link to tcl/tk, libpython2.x, IDA , though i have installed them both through apt-get as well as from source. I believe I have to specify the locations of the packages somewhere. However, I am unable to locate the same. |
| 19:45.55 | abhinav | any help is welcome |
| 19:46.00 | *** part/#gsoc stork_ (~stork@94.76.205.111) |
| 19:46.08 | Catfish_Man | abhinav: is this related to summer of code? |
| 19:46.16 | sreich | what does this have to do with gsoc? |
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| 19:46.44 | russellb | it's related to the "code" part of the channel name! |
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| 19:46.57 | russellb | sort of. |
| 19:47.31 | sreich | so it's 1/5th related.. :) |
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| 19:51.31 | robbyoconnor | ugh |
| 19:52.24 | Chetan_ | lol |
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| 20:02.48 | skbohra_ | !timeline |
| 20:02.48 | GHF | Time: |
| 20:02.48 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline |
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| 20:14.20 | rahul_ | hello!! I am from a mentoring organisation. Can anyone help me know how to maintain IRC logs . |
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| 20:18.54 | sanjoyd | rahul_: Which organization? |
| 20:19.13 | rahul_ | Gephi |
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| 20:34.21 | drt24 | rahul_: which irc client are you using? |
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| 21:01.36 | __asdf__ | !help |
| 21:01.37 | socinfo | "help" is !next, !faq, !advice and !wiki. !botabuse tells you about private query syntax |
| 21:01.43 | __asdf__ | !wiki |
| 21:01.43 | socinfo | "wiki" is http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/w/list |
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| 21:02.34 | felipevieira_ | !next |
| 21:02.34 | socinfo | "next" is March 29th -- student applications are then officially opened, but you can talk to participating organizations now already :) |
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| 21:12.23 | AlexM | hey, so has anyone decided which projects they want to work on for 2010? |
| 21:12.41 | AlexM | I'm just looking at the project lists now... hope i'm not too late :-D |
| 21:13.57 | Dark_Shikari | applications haven't even started |
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| 21:14.42 | AlexM | ok |
| 21:15.23 | AlexM | but I mean, contacting people, since apparently you're supposed to contact a mentor before applying for that project... right? |
| 21:15.50 | Catfish_Man | it's a good way to succeed |
| 21:15.51 | micahcowan | AlexM, it definitely improves your chances. |
| 21:16.02 | hypa7ia | AlexM: you still have time. go find projects you're interested in, and talk to them. |
| 21:16.03 | Catfish_Man | although to clarify, a mentoring organization |
| 21:16.06 | Catfish_Man | not necessarily a mentor |
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| 21:16.38 | AlexM | micahcowan, hypa7ia: ok |
| 21:17.20 | neurodrone | Is it like the nearer the mentoring organization is to you geographically, the better the chances? |
| 21:17.26 | AlexM | wish I didn't have 2 weeks of solid university work.. :-P, maybe I can contact some after 1st April, although kinda late :-/ |
| 21:17.39 | neurodrone | I am a first time participant, so I guess a certain level of paranoia is allowed. :P |
| 21:17.49 | micahcowan | neurodrone, not by my experience. |
| 21:18.01 | neurodrone | micahcowan: oh okay :) good to hear that. |
| 21:18.41 | AlexM | yeah, I was wondering that too, but, if you read the FAQ your location doesn't matter |
| 21:18.57 | AlexM | guessing UK people can apply to since it doesn't say US-only |
| 21:19.37 | kblin | there's only some countries US companies aren't allowed to do business with |
| 21:19.55 | dhaun | what's the "location" of an open source org? |
| 21:20.15 | thiago_home | few orgs have locations |
| 21:20.15 | micahcowan | Well, I imagine some few might be said to have one... but yeah. |
| 21:20.21 | AlexM | I'm a little scared by some of the projects ;-P... I'm definitely interested in the GNOME ones... GCC & LLVM looks interesting but I'm sure it's way outside of my abilities to be honest |
| 21:20.21 | thiago_home | some orgs have legal entities that have a home |
| 21:20.23 | thiago_home | foundations and such |
| 21:20.35 | thiago_home | but usually they don't mean anything about the project's "location" |
| 21:21.26 | AlexM | how much support do you get from mentors, especially if you've never contributed to that project before? |
| 21:21.56 | micahcowan | It depends quite a bit on the mentor. |
| 21:21.56 | dho | Depends on the mentor and the project. |
| 21:22.03 | dho | but mostly the mentor, yes. |
| 21:22.07 | kblin | and on the student :) |
| 21:22.10 | AlexM | ok |
| 21:22.13 | AlexM | yeah :-) |
| 21:22.22 | micahcowan | If that's important to you, you should definitely try to get a feel for that from your prospective mentor |
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| 21:22.32 | AlexM | ok |
| 21:22.34 | micahcowan | Or it may help to explicitly mention that you're looking for some hand-holding |
| 21:22.41 | kblin | if I notice my student is a lazy bum, I'm less likely to invest a lot of time myself |
| 21:22.42 | schumaml | we've got the question "what kind of support do you expect from your mentor?" in the application template :) |
| 21:23.06 | dho | Well, there's a difference between lazy bum and difficult project that could use some insight. |
| 21:23.10 | micahcowan | kblin, well sure. Don't want to do their work for them, or put a lot of work into something they'll ignore in turn. |
| 21:23.46 | kblin | dho: sure, lazy != does not churn out code like crazy |
| 21:23.56 | thebolt | hi kblin |
| 21:24.00 | kblin | hi thebolt |
| 21:24.17 | AlexM | yeah I was just coming from the point of view of, I want to work really hard on a project, but If I got completely stuck and needed to ask questions etc |
| 21:24.32 | AlexM | I'm sure that's what the mentor is their for anyway |
| 21:24.40 | dho | Yep. |
| 21:24.41 | micahcowan | AlexM, that is absolutely what the mentor is for. If they don't respond to that, they're not doing their job. |
| 21:24.41 | schumaml | "churn out code like crazy" with an emphasis on "crazy" is outsourcing, not the result of a soc project |
| 21:25.05 | thiago_home | guys, this is also Open Source |
| 21:25.10 | AlexM | micahcowan: ok, thanks! :) |
| 21:25.14 | dho | Different organizations have different expectations though, so you should definitely discuss it first. |
| 21:25.14 | thiago_home | you're supposed to complete a project, but you're allowed to talk to people |
| 21:25.28 | thiago_home | this is not an exam |
| 21:26.03 | AlexM | heh |
| 21:26.22 | Dark_Shikari | my approach is "there are no such things as stupid questions, only stupid people" |
| 21:26.28 | Dark_Shikari | not asking questions is a waste of the students' time |
| 21:26.50 | thiago_home | yet many students don't feel like asking questions |
| 21:26.57 | schumaml | thiago_home: this is the reason why one of our core developers dislikes any floss coding based on bounties |
| 21:27.01 | thiago_home | some cultural issues, others because of the type of response they get |
| 21:27.01 | dho | Communication is tough |
| 21:28.25 | Dark_Shikari | schumaml: bounties are fine as long as they come with the disclaimer "it doesn't count unless your patch passes review, and we reserve the right to say no for any reason including our mood" |
| 21:28.49 | kblin | if I have to reply to a question with a "lmgtfy" link, it's a waste of time ;) |
| 21:29.03 | Dark_Shikari | kblin those are "stupid people" ;) |
| 21:29.14 | schumaml | my biggest problem is overly humble first impressions |
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| 21:29.22 | thiago_home | Dark_Shikari: GSoC doesn't imply code acceptance |
| 21:29.32 | thiago_home | but this is on Google's generous side |
| 21:29.41 | Dark_Shikari | sure it doesn't on _google's_ side |
| 21:29.49 | thiago_home | in most subcontracting businesses, you don't get paid unless your client accepts |
| 21:29.53 | Dark_Shikari | but nobody says you can't refuse to approve a student unless his code gets accepted. |
| 21:29.57 | Dark_Shikari | *refuse to pass |
| 21:30.09 | schumaml | Dark_Shikari: more because they stiffle cooperation |
| 21:30.11 | thiago_home | true, but this is not exactly the spirit |
| 21:30.24 | Dark_Shikari | sure it is. we require that all students stick around until they are done |
| 21:30.33 | Dark_Shikari | we don't accept code dumps |
| 21:30.37 | thiago_home | if the student makes a valiant effort, but doesn't achieve the code completion, it's still a valiant effort |
| 21:30.42 | micahcowan | I've passed a student who's code never quite went in. |
| 21:30.47 | Dark_Shikari | then he better stick around until he does finish it. |
| 21:30.52 | ferringb | thiago_home: in my experience, there usually is an upfront payment along w/ a trailing... better is milestone based... |
| 21:30.58 | thiago_home | I've passed students whose code wasn't acceptable |
| 21:31.04 | thiago_home | they worked, really hard, they talked to the community |
| 21:31.08 | micahcowan | That's not a requirement of gsoc. Nor can you pass/fail retroactively based on whether they stick around, so it's a bit of a moot point. |
| 21:31.10 | AlexM | I thought people are supposed to maintain their code even after GSoC has finished? |
| 21:31.11 | thiago_home | they did everything Open Source devs do |
| 21:31.11 | ferringb | usually won't touch a "you get the cash when we accept" however since that allows people to be dinks |
| 21:31.15 | thiago_home | why should I fail him? |
| 21:31.28 | Dark_Shikari | thiago_home: if it's not their fault, obviously you can't blame them |
| 21:31.33 | thiago_home | what we don't tolerate is lack of communication and disappearance. |
| 21:31.39 | Dark_Shikari | e.g. if their patch ends up being rejected for reasons unrelated to the student |
| 21:31.45 | thiago_home | yes, exactly |
| 21:32.04 | thiago_home | and I mean, maybe the student was way over his skill level (right now, they are students!) |
| 21:32.31 | thiago_home | what a student takes 3 months to accomplish, an experienced dev could do in a week |
| 21:32.50 | AlexM | I'm guessing most people who are undergraduate CS students couldn't complete the GSoC projects... |
| 21:32.55 | micahcowan | Hm, depends a lot on the student... and the dev. |
| 21:32.58 | AlexM | from my experience anyway.. |
| 21:33.03 | thiago_home | and we all know how bad we are at planning. So how can students be held to higher standards? |
| 21:33.06 | AlexM | maybe some are for PhD etc.. |
| 21:33.35 | thiago_home | anyway, my point is that "accepting the code" isn't the only guideline for GSoC success |
| 21:33.40 | schumaml | Dark_Shikari: we want students to place their studies first |
| 21:33.46 | thiago_home | it's one factor, and not ranked even highest |
| 21:33.52 | kblin | and there's many comp-sci students who can't code :) |
| 21:34.05 | schumaml | that's hard to achieve with an additional "stick around" requirement |
| 21:34.44 | AlexM | also, I know theirs a section on "how much time do I spend on GSoC etc" but realistically how many hours per day will I be spending on it? |
| 21:35.04 | Catfish_Man | the intention is that it's a full time summer job |
| 21:35.07 | Catfish_Man | i.e. 40/wk |
| 21:35.08 | AlexM | also, what happens if you go on holiday etc ? are you even allowed to ? |
| 21:35.08 | micahcowan | AlexM, depends on the project, but IMO it should be equivalent to a full-time job. |
| 21:35.17 | AlexM | ah, ok |
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| 21:35.22 | Crofton | depends how long the holiday is |
| 21:35.32 | micahcowan | AlexM, such things are often permitted, but tell the mentor in _advance_, so they're aware and prepared. |
| 21:35.35 | Catfish_Man | you're *allowed* to work on it in pretty much any way that doesn't freak your mentor out ;) |
| 21:35.38 | Crofton | we are not complete slave drivers |
| 21:35.39 | Catfish_Man | they decide if you get the money after all |
| 21:35.39 | micahcowan | And to make sure they're ok with it. |
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| 21:35.52 | kblin | Crofton: we're not? |
| 21:36.03 | AlexM | micahcowan: ok |
| 21:36.05 | kblin | ;) |
| 21:36.13 | sarav1919 | Hi all :) |
| 21:36.17 | micahcowan | I think a typical approach is that if you're getting a reasonable amount of work done, we don't look too closely at hours spent. But if you're not getting it done, then hours spent may be one of the first things we ask about. |
| 21:36.20 | AlexM | I didn't even know money was involved until today |
| 21:36.34 | stas | AlexM: you're talking like you got employed and you try getting your rights respected, I think gsoc is something like, let me show you that I can do something by myself |
| 21:36.36 | Crofton | I looked over the 5K with a junior faculty at the local uni, and it is about what you would make on an assitantship for the same amount of time |
| 21:36.43 | ferringb | Catfish_Man: I've got the image of buffalo bill from silence of the lambs in his getup hacking away at gsoc from that statement of yours... thanks. |
| 21:36.47 | Crofton | so, you are getting paid as if it is a full time job |
| 21:36.53 | AlexM | I thought it was just for experience of coding on an open source project, with a mentor... |
| 21:36.56 | micahcowan | AlexM, well, without money (and status), why not let every day be GSoC? :) |
| 21:37.26 | stas | micahcowan: actually, guys that are core members of a community do their gsoc every day :) |
| 21:37.33 | micahcowan | stas, exactly. :)_ |
| 21:37.37 | AlexM | stas: I know, I just wanted to ask some questions ... :-) |
| 21:37.38 | stas | except for the billing part |
| 21:37.39 | stas | :D |
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| 21:38.02 | micahcowan | If money isn't a concern, AlexM, then I'd say, if you don't manage to get accepted in gsoc, talk to the org anyway about continuing with a mentor outside of gsoc. |
| 21:38.13 | kblin | stas: hm, mentoring was better during gsoc :) |
| 21:38.27 | micahcowan | Many orgs will do a "pseudo-gsoc" alongside, for students that just want the experience and involvement. Some even set up separate paid programs. |
| 21:38.33 | stas | kblin: thats for sure |
| 21:39.10 | micahcowan | They often try to make it as close as possible to gsoc, even with evaluations and such. Sometimes they can get google to send some swag (but the student can't be recognized as an official gsoc student, no matter what, unless they were actually accepted, and got a slot). |
| 21:39.37 | AlexM | micahcowan: ok, thanks, it's not a primary concern at the moment |
| 21:43.47 | AlexM | imagines coding on a beach.. maybe not ;) |
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| 22:06.43 | evanpro | Hi all |
| 22:07.32 | Catfish_Man | hi evanpro |
| 22:08.02 | evanpro | Catfish_Man, hi |
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| 22:27.58 | hurrycane | hello |
| 22:28.09 | hurrycane | chromium OS was present on the list a few days ago |
| 22:28.13 | hurrycane | what happend to him |
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| 22:29.26 | danderson | okay, screw you |
| 22:29.48 | danderson | I was investigating and all to give you an answer, but since you're so frigging impatient, I guess I'll just make a note that no org should ever take you |
| 22:30.03 | danderson | because you'll just find something shiny five minutes later and go off running after it |
| 22:30.06 | danderson | rants |
| 22:30.30 | hypa7ia | gives danderson a cupcake |
| 22:31.04 | danderson | and for other, more patient people, the answer is: Chromium OS was folded into the larger Chromium org |
| 22:31.11 | danderson | which will handle ideas for both the browser and the OS |
| 22:31.18 | AlexM | danderson: Yup, I read the project page |
| 22:31.36 | dhaun | thank, danderson - I was curious about that one myself :) |
| 22:31.41 | AlexM | I'm probably not going to apply for that or e.g. facebook, since I expect everyone will apply for those "ooh shiny" projects... |
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| 22:33.10 | danderson | AlexM: you should do Haskell projects. |
| 22:33.34 | danderson | they're not on the shiny radar for most people, the community is awesome, and the projects challenging |
| 22:33.36 | AlexM | Heh, I'd like to |
| 22:34.37 | AlexM | looks for the Haskell projects |
| 22:34.51 | AlexM | ah, just haskell.org |
| 22:34.52 | AshishG | <PROTECTED> |
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| 22:35.55 | danderson | AlexM: the ideas list is actually a little stale |
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| 22:36.07 | danderson | you should pop onto #haskell-soc if you want information |
| 22:36.24 | danderson | the guy with the updated ideas is currently on a plane |
| 22:36.29 | AlexM | danderson: ok, I'm looking at the list now, should I just look at the "good" priority ideas? |
| 22:36.57 | marcheu | what facebook is doing SoC? |
| 22:37.15 | AlexM | again it's a case of, i'd like to work on these but I wouldn't even know where to start on "A high-performance HTML combinator library using Data.Text" |
| 22:37.24 | marcheu | ah right they do some OSS stuff |
| 22:37.34 | AlexM | maybe I could do something more simple like the darcs gui.. |
| 22:37.47 | danderson | AlexM: the haskell ideas list is stale, the guy that has the correct one is on a plane, as I just said |
| 22:37.57 | AlexM | ok... |
| 22:38.20 | danderson | I can't remember the new list, but #haskell-soc is there to get information if you're interested |
| 22:38.32 | danderson | that said, most of the projects will require some familiarity with the haskell language |
| 22:39.39 | AlexM | http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/summer-of-code/ticket/66 |
| 22:40.02 | AlexM | oh wow, seems one of my lectures could be taking part.. maybe I should ask him about gsoc |
| 22:40.36 | danderson | those projects are all very old and unmentored |
| 22:41.02 | danderson | the updated list, which is on a plane right now, is 7-8 ideas with strong support and a big potential impact for the haskell community |
| 22:41.51 | AlexM | ok |
| 22:42.10 | AlexM | danderson: so, should I check the list tomorrow? |
| 22:42.12 | danderson | but unfortunately I can't remember the ideas :( |
| 22:42.17 | AlexM | or join #haskell-soc |
| 22:42.25 | danderson | AlexM: yeah, around then. I'll be poking the list owner to update |
| 22:42.27 | evanpro | So, I just blogged about our GSoC participation: http://status.net/2010/03/23/statusnet-in-the-google-summer-of-code-2010 |
| 22:42.33 | danderson | or join #haskell-soc and ask about projects over there |
| 22:42.33 | AlexM | ok |
| 22:42.40 | AlexM | will do tomorrow :) |
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| 22:43.00 | AlexM | Nes emulator, haha |
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| 22:43.04 | AlexM | that sounds fun .. :) |
| 22:43.09 | danderson | evanpro: cool |
| 22:43.29 | danderson | AlexM: also very hard, if you want it to run in real time and be reasonably nice looking haskell |
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| 22:43.50 | AlexM | yeah, I just thought it was funny with all the other formal sounding projects there :) |
| 22:44.15 | evanpro | danderson, good |
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| 22:44.25 | evanpro | I didn't know if it was wrong to solicit student participation |
| 22:44.59 | danderson | solliciting through your project's own communication channels is fine (how would we stop you anyway :) ) |
| 22:45.38 | schumaml | DMCA based on GSoC trademark? ;) |
| 22:45.38 | danderson | pointing students here to your project if they ask where to apply is also fine |
| 22:46.01 | danderson | just don't spam the GSoC channels/mailing lists if it's not in direct response to someone |
| 22:46.04 | danderson | does that make sense? |
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| 22:47.15 | danderson | schumaml: I'm not a legal person, but I suspect that such a use of the DMCA could be fought, since there is no misrepresentation or misappropriation of the trademark |
| 22:47.34 | danderson | but it's a purely academic question anyway, since we won't do it :) |
| 22:48.22 | schumaml | danderson: but until then, the provider would have taken the site offline already |
| 22:49.27 | danderson | schumaml: and then google would get a metric ton of shit heaped on it by the whole internet because it did evil. |
| 22:49.34 | schumaml | yep :) |
| 22:49.38 | danderson | even if we wanted to (which we don't), it wouldn't be worth it |
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| 22:52.57 | AshishG | Python :~~~ |
| 22:53.12 | danderson | ... yes? |
| 22:54.26 | evanpro | danderson, right |
| 22:54.45 | evanpro | I just want all the awesome students to work on our project and definitely not waste their time with Haskell hoo-haw |
| 22:54.50 | evanpro | runs, ducks |
| 22:54.52 | evanpro | B-) |
| 22:55.32 | evanpro | OK, I have to actually run and duck now |
| 22:55.44 | evanpro | But it's unrelated to my humor in poor taste |
| 22:57.38 | scorche | sighs |
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