| 00:00.15 | Dark_Shikari | Catfish_Man: hmm, I tried cleartype, non-cleartype, and AA'd |
| 00:00.18 | Catfish_Man | kblin: hey, it would mean people have *opinions* about things like aesthetics and readability. That would be a huge step up for the world |
| 00:00.56 | x` | Dark_Shikari: i take that back, it is quite bold, yeah. I would be nice if a light variant existed. |
| 00:01.12 | kblin | Catfish_Man: it sure beats emacs vs. vim and I think it also beats Gnome vs. KDE |
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| 00:01.19 | Dark_Shikari | I guess they took wikipedia's "be bold" too literally |
| 00:01.32 | Catfish_Man | hm. heh, thinking about it, I lost my prefs so much when I was working on the prefs system that I doubt I still have any of my font stuff set on my work machine |
| 00:01.42 | Dark_Shikari | kblin: bsd vs gpl! |
| 00:01.52 | Catfish_Man | and, I have a bus to catch. Later folks! |
| 00:02.03 | aritra_ | hii...can anyone give me the IRC link for SCI-LAB... |
| 00:02.27 | kblin | aritra_: check their website |
| 00:02.55 | aritra_ | well i searched & am still searching...bt dint find t yet... |
| 00:03.34 | kblin | ah, crap, I keep forgetting that ubuntu doesn't install a ssh server per default |
| 00:03.40 | aritra_ | fine got it.... |
| 00:04.00 | kblin | oh well, so no logging into work to see how far my blast searches are |
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| 00:21.18 | gigasoft1 | who is in charge here |
| 00:21.37 | Catfish_Man | of soc, or this channel? |
| 00:22.05 | gigasoft1 | this channel |
| 00:22.12 | x` | my trolldar is beeping. :) |
| 00:22.50 | Catfish_Man | gigasoft1: anyone with ops |
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| 00:23.23 | gigasoft1 | hm, ok |
| 00:23.48 | aoszkar | I have a question about eligibility: if in the first few weeks I'll be in a country where I'm not eligible to work, I shouldn't even bother applying? |
| 00:23.51 | Catfish_Man | (or carols, if she's here, but she's not right now) |
| 00:24.09 | Catfish_Man | aoszkar: if your mentoring organization is ok with you having several less weeks to work, that's acceptable |
| 00:24.13 | Catfish_Man | but most orgs will be very wary of that |
| 00:24.51 | aoszkar | Catfish_Man: I would still work on the project, just not from home |
| 00:25.11 | Catfish_Man | can you work on it in a country where you't not eligible to work? |
| 00:25.13 | aoszkar | so if the mentoring organization is fine with it, it's ok? |
| 00:25.14 | Catfish_Man | that sounds legally risky |
| 00:25.35 | aoszkar | I understand |
| 00:25.45 | aoszkar | so I should let it go? |
| 00:25.56 | Catfish_Man | I don't think I can give you definite answers |
| 00:25.58 | Catfish_Man | I'm not a lawyer |
| 00:26.07 | aoszkar | :) ok, thanks |
| 00:26.37 | aoszkar | I think maybe I'll ask the mentoring organization if they're fine with it |
| 00:26.47 | aoszkar | thanks for your answers, Catfish_Man |
| 00:27.03 | Catfish_Man | np |
| 00:29.44 | Tesla|nn | am I eligible if I'm in a dual enrollment program? |
| 00:34.27 | Tesla|nn | ??? |
| 00:35.21 | Catfish_Man | probably? dunno, try the mailing list |
| 00:35.23 | Catfish_Man | or the faq |
| 00:36.39 | Tesla|nn | what if I have applied for college? |
| 00:37.21 | Crix- | the website says acceptance or enrollment in one place and enrollment in another |
| 00:38.48 | Tesla|nn | brb |
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| 00:39.58 | Crix- | i hope it's acceptance cause i might not be enrolled by the april deadline |
| 00:45.10 | robbyoconnor | Crix-: registered or enrolled by that date |
| 00:45.18 | robbyoconnor | acceptance letters are accepted too |
| 00:46.58 | robbyoconnor | Tesla|nn: ^^ |
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| 00:47.39 | MatthewWilkes | evnin' all |
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| 00:52.53 | Tesla|nn | robbyoconnor: do you know if dual enrollment counts? |
| 00:53.47 | robbyoconnor | it may |
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| 00:59.47 | Crix- | robbyoconnor thanks for the clarification |
| 01:00.06 | robbyoconnor | based on answers last year |
| 01:02.16 | Tesla|nn | thank you |
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| 01:07.30 | mkarnicki | hi guys, i have a question - if a student suggests an idea for the project, and the idea is published on the 'ideas list' |
| 01:07.42 | mkarnicki | is it possible that another student will be found more suitable for that project? |
| 01:07.47 | Dark_Shikari | depends on the project |
| 01:07.47 | Dark_Shikari | ask them |
| 01:08.02 | mkarnicki | you mean, the mentoring organisation? |
| 01:08.02 | Catfish_Man | I've not seen student-proposed ideas added to the list after the list has been published |
| 01:08.08 | Catfish_Man | but I suppose an organization could do that |
| 01:08.22 | Catfish_Man | and certainly I've seen multiple students propose the same idea before |
| 01:08.46 | mkarnicki | i see.. thank you |
| 01:09.35 | mkarnicki | based on what you wrote, when would then students be supposed to provide their own ideas - before the list was published? virtually impossible, am I wrong? |
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| 01:09.59 | mkarnicki | i think this is the time when a student may come up with an idea and look for a mentor for it, isn't it? |
| 01:10.10 | Catfish_Man | mkarnicki: they would simply submit a proposal for an idea that's not on the list |
| 01:10.15 | mkarnicki | (actually it's late know, nearly 29th, but that's not what i meant) |
| 01:10.42 | mkarnicki | Catfish_Man: thanks again :) |
| 01:11.13 | Catfish_Man | I recall one student submitting... 5? I think, proposals, of which only one was on our idea list |
| 01:11.43 | mkarnicki | and the organisation would submit that to google? or they simply put the proposed project on the list? |
| 01:11.57 | Catfish_Man | no, neither |
| 01:12.04 | mkarnicki | :D |
| 01:12.07 | Catfish_Man | ideas don't have to be on the list |
| 01:12.11 | mkarnicki | aha? |
| 01:12.24 | mkarnicki | supose I have a nice idea |
| 01:12.29 | Catfish_Man | it's just a list of ideas, it has no official role in anything |
| 01:12.31 | mkarnicki | i have contacted the dev team on that |
| 01:12.45 | mkarnicki | and they say it's good, i've even found a mentor |
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| 01:13.08 | mkarnicki | should i submit that proposal during the registration (that opens on 29th?) or |
| 01:13.16 | mkarnicki | i'm supposed to do that beforehand |
| 01:13.31 | Catfish_Man | the former |
| 01:13.39 | mkarnicki | yep.. i know they will rank the ideas later on |
| 01:14.21 | Catfish_Man | the only thing students *have* to do is submit a proposal via the webapp once that's open |
| 01:14.33 | mkarnicki | great, thanks! |
| 01:14.43 | Catfish_Man | everything else is just recommended steps for success :) |
| 01:14.48 | mkarnicki | i've got much clearer picture now |
| 01:14.55 | mkarnicki | :) |
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| 01:16.57 | Catfish_Man | ok, time to get off the bus. Later folks |
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| 02:00.51 | Ishan | hey guys me new to gsoc .............just want to know how to get in touch with the mentor of a particular organisation |
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| 02:11.24 | araujo | Ishan, contact that organization |
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| 02:35.11 | Upthorn | most organizations have irc channels on freenode |
| 02:35.49 | Upthorn | if you check the organization profile and join the channel they indicate, there is a good chance that the mentor you wish to contact will be available there |
| 02:36.05 | Upthorn | At least, in my own experience |
| 02:37.03 | Ishan | Yea i know Upthorn but there are few organisation whom i tried to contact but no one was there on their irc room |
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| 02:37.36 | Upthorn | that makes it more difficult |
| 02:42.15 | Jing | Ishan: why not try their mailing lists? |
| 02:42.51 | Crofton | not all groups manage 24x7 coverage in their channels |
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| 02:53.14 | Botanic_ | Ishan: what kinds of org's you looking to join? |
| 02:53.39 | Botanic_ | each org is different ;) |
| 02:55.27 | Ishan | @ botanic i was just try to contact mentor of a org. to know more dtail abt a idea so that i can decide to aplly for that or not |
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| 02:56.18 | Ishan | not to worry i will try to get in touch with on mailin list or try to catch thenm here if they come online |
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| 03:04.27 | farzin | hi |
| 03:06.32 | downeym | hi |
| 03:08.47 | farzin | actually i'm interested in applying for gsoc 2010.. me interestd in c++,python... |
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| 03:09.09 | farzin | From where i get a mendor? |
| 03:09.23 | danderson | !orgbycat |
| 03:09.24 | socinfo | "orgbycat" is 2009 orgs list by category: http://delicious.com/gsoc2009/bundle:Categories (note: work in progress) |
| 03:09.28 | danderson | bah, that's not it |
| 03:09.31 | danderson | !orgs |
| 03:09.31 | socinfo | "orgs" is The list of accepted mentoring organizations is here: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
| 03:09.44 | danderson | farzin: ^ look through that list of orgs for a project that interests you |
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| 03:09.52 | danderson | then, you need to contact that org directly to discuss it |
| 03:10.10 | farzin | ok thankyou.. |
| 03:11.17 | farzin | How can i find new projects.. easyones ? |
| 03:12.23 | Catfish_Man | the "please spoon feed me easy projects" attitude is extraordinarily unlikely to get you accepted to gsoc |
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| 03:12.41 | downeym | Catfish_Man: +1 :) |
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| 03:13.26 | farzin | ok sorry.. |
| 03:14.07 | farzin | Each project didnt require only knowledge in c or c++... |
| 03:15.06 | farzin | if i'm focusing on that ones it will be better.. huh? |
| 03:15.22 | farzin | thats why askd... |
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| 04:16.48 | felipevieira | !timeline |
| 04:16.48 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline |
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| 04:45.05 | meanburr1to920 | window hide |
| 04:45.09 | meanburr1to920 | oops |
| 04:45.37 | meanburr1to920 | forgot my backslash :) |
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| 06:21.22 | CiswatiC | pla9 mentors aboard? |
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| 06:21.29 | Dark_Shikari | try their irc |
| 06:22.06 | CiswatiC | s i did but no 1 there... so just checked over here... |
| 06:29.18 | ajuonline | *yawn* |
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| 06:53.06 | Acabol | #wesnoth-dev |
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| 07:00.57 | goddard | is gsoc meant for students? |
| 07:01.09 | goddard | only students? |
| 07:01.39 | Dark_Shikari | yes |
| 07:05.45 | Snap | so it means that students doing ph.d. also do gsoc |
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| 07:07.42 | skbohra | yes |
| 07:08.26 | Snap | how many undergraduate students participate in gsoc any rough idea |
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| 07:08.39 | skbohra | quite a lot |
| 07:09.06 | Snap | i am in 2nd year of my ug graduation so is it fine |
| 07:10.59 | Snap | i wonder how many students applying for gsoc previous experience in software development. in college you tought languages but hardly any software development |
| 07:11.36 | Catfish_Man | Snap: depends on the college. RIT has a software engineering degree program, for example |
| 07:11.41 | Catfish_Man | rather than the more usual CS-only |
| 07:12.09 | ksinkar | this is the place to learn |
| 07:12.25 | Snap | so i guess most of first timers just have knowledge of language |
| 07:12.51 | Snap | actually it helps you to understand the source code |
| 07:12.57 | Snap | am i right |
| 07:13.36 | Dark_Shikari | dunno, my school even has a software development _course_ |
| 07:13.41 | Dark_Shikari | and it's required for graduation as a CS major |
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| 07:14.06 | ksinkar | Snap: are u from india? |
| 07:14.11 | Snap | yes |
| 07:14.13 | shyamupa | yes |
| 07:14.32 | shyamupa | hi |
| 07:14.43 | Snap | hi shyamupa |
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| 07:15.18 | shyamupa | hi snap |
| 07:15.41 | shyamupa | i am new to gsoc.. |
| 07:15.48 | Snap | me too |
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| 07:19.42 | goddard | me too |
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| 07:28.15 | juchiu | hi all, anybody up? |
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| 07:29.59 | S2N | if one wants to talk to a mentor abt some projects how do you go abt it |
| 07:30.23 | ajuonline | S2N: on their mailing list/ iRC |
| 07:32.05 | S2N | then do i need to mail them or find them on the list here |
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| 07:32.46 | ajuonline | S2N: their organisation information page, must have links on how to get in touch with them |
| 07:33.07 | S2N | hmm.. thanks |
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| 08:23.46 | Goshan | hi |
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| 09:11.33 | Goshan | i |
| 09:11.46 | Goshan | i have prepared application/ |
| 09:11.57 | Goshan | what will be the next step? |
| 09:12.07 | dhaun | !next |
| 09:12.07 | socinfo | "next" is March 29th -- student applications officially open, but you should start to talk to participating organizations right now! |
| 09:12.25 | Goshan | hmm |
| 09:12.30 | Goshan | thanx) |
| 09:12.33 | dhaun | but you may want to send it to your mentorin org now to get some early feedback |
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| 09:31.05 | BloomBox | Does anyone have a link to GSoC previous year statistics google doc ? |
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| 09:36.10 | ajuonline | BloomBox: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p6DuoA2lJToKmUzoSq6raZQ&output=html |
| 09:38.15 | BloomBox | Thanks ajuonline :) |
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| 09:41.26 | jasebo|away | it's very dark in our house right now (earth hour) |
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| 09:56.16 | neXyon | what happens if one student applies for several organisations and at least two accept the proposal? is the student allowed to choose the project he'd like to do then? |
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| 09:57.06 | spectie | neXyon, yes |
| 09:57.24 | thebolt | sometimes |
| 09:57.36 | thebolt | if there is time to notice it and resolve it that way |
| 09:57.48 | thebolt | otherwise it will be solved between the orgs during the conflict resolution meeting |
| 09:58.04 | neXyon | I see, thanks |
| 09:58.23 | thebolt | so you better want to do all projects oyu apply for :) |
| 09:59.15 | neXyon | sure, I'm interested in all of those I'll apply for, but there's always a subjective ranking ;) |
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| 10:07.07 | gvallarelli | hello |
| 10:08.30 | infinity0 | uh i thought final word was up to google and teh orgs |
| 10:08.38 | infinity0 | neXyon |
| 10:08.42 | infinity0 | someone'll confirm that hopefully |
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| 10:14.37 | sumit | hi |
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| 10:15.05 | sumit | need help regarding gsoc |
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| 10:15.50 | sumit | can anybody tell me how to apply for it |
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| 10:17.47 | |Kev| | sumit: yes, just google for 'gsoc' and there's a user guide you'll see. |
| 10:18.06 | sumit | @kev:thnks |
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| 10:20.17 | |Kev| | Morning Tobias :) |
| 10:23.10 | skbohra | we are getting emotional over lh's moving away |
| 10:23.40 | Nightrose | sobs a bit and hands out tissues |
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| 10:29.49 | pankajmore | hi, i m new to gsoc |
| 10:31.05 | |Kev| | Hi. |
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| 10:37.50 | Snap | one question how do you test your code how to know it works |
| 10:38.21 | |Kev| | Snap: with unit tests usually. Also using the software, and having volunteers test it. |
| 10:38.51 | Snap | how to volunteers test it |
| 10:39.01 | |Kev| | Run it and see if it does what they expect. |
| 10:39.06 | Snap | because the code is not a standlone applocation |
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| 10:39.14 | |Kev| | Snap: what code? |
| 10:39.39 | Snap | code for some feature in a program |
| 10:39.49 | |Kev| | So it's part of a program, so you can run it. |
| 10:40.12 | Snap | without intergrating it into the main program |
| 10:40.21 | Snap | i dont know how to do it |
| 10:40.34 | |Kev| | You'll always have it integrated into a program for user testing. |
| 10:41.05 | Snap | ok thats what i thought i wanted to know if there is some other way:P |
| 10:41.34 | |Kev| | Yes, unit tests. |
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| 10:42.37 | |Kev| | If you are a relatively inexperienced developer, there are books that people could suggest you read. |
| 10:43.30 | Snap | can you name me |
| 10:43.32 | |Kev| | "The Pragmatic Programmer" is one that's quite a good read (and very easy going), and I'm sure other people will have other suggestions. |
| 10:43.33 | gvallarelli | there are a lot of Xunit frameworks |
| 10:43.45 | gvallarelli | Snap, which language? |
| 10:43.49 | |Kev| | This isn't a testing book, but a general advice on programming book. |
| 10:43.55 | Snap | ok |
| 10:44.08 | Snap | hey kev until then what can i do. |
| 10:44.32 | |Kev| | The JUnit book from (again) the Pragmatics is a good book on unit testing (and applicable whether you use Java or not) |
| 10:44.52 | |Kev| | Snap: you can try getting involved with a project Right Now, it's all good experience. |
| 10:45.04 | dhaun | Snap: check if the org is already using a unit test framework and if so, use that |
| 10:45.16 | gvallarelli | |Kev|, there are a lot of better books instead of pragmatics |
| 10:45.23 | |Kev| | dhaun: As I understand, Snap hasn't chosen an org yet. |
| 10:45.32 | |Kev| | gvallarelli: as I say - other people will have plenty of good suggestionts :) |
| 10:45.32 | gvallarelli | just look at amazon reviews :) |
| 10:45.45 | gvallarelli | np |
| 10:45.47 | |Kev| | I suggested the Pragmatics because they're very low-barrier. |
| 10:46.13 | Snap | kev i will have about 25 days before the programming starts is it sufficient to learn things related to your project if you dont know them currently |
| 10:46.48 | gvallarelli | I suggest Agile Java |
| 10:46.57 | gvallarelli | by Jeff Langr |
| 10:47.00 | |Kev| | Snap: my organisation specifically? I don't know that we have any projects that're suitable for very new programmers. How much experience do you have? |
| 10:47.14 | gvallarelli | it's a little outdated but it contains a lots of good stuffs |
| 10:48.01 | CiswatiC | any1 from plan9 |
| 10:48.21 | dhaun | !anyone |
| 10:48.21 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
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| 10:54.24 | CiswatiC | anyone from |
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| 10:55.06 | |Kev| | !anyone |
| 10:55.06 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
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| 11:18.59 | nano- | Hi, I'm trying to find the XMMS2 project in the "Apply to become a Mentor" page, but I can only find it in the "List participating Organizations" page. Why is this? |
| 11:21.51 | dhaun | nano-: yeah, that's odd |
| 11:22.10 | dhaun | that list also only has 150 orgs, as opposed to 152 on the list of accepted orgs |
| 11:22.22 | dhaun | suggests asking in #melange |
| 11:22.36 | nano- | check |
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| 11:26.03 | |Kev| | nano-: you don't /need/ to apply to be a mentor, mind, I believe the org admin is able to invite you. |
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| 11:35.50 | nano- | |Kev|: ah, ok.. I guess that works aswell. |
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| 11:43.25 | avtobiff | where do i find the mentor application page? |
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| 12:04.54 | dhaun | avtobiff: log into socghop.appspot.com, last link in the left column |
| 12:05.43 | avtobiff | looks like i have to practice my reading skills ^_^ |
| 12:05.47 | avtobiff | dhaun, ty |
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| 13:10.15 | kblin | pokes confixx |
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| 13:56.21 | club16 | hi....i m new to gsoc |
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| 14:09.10 | dunnowhyitsme | . |
| 14:09.13 | dunnowhyitsme | any one here? |
| 14:09.20 | merwok | Hi. |
| 14:09.28 | ajuonline | Hi. |
| 14:09.41 | WinterMute | ask your question, somebody will no doubt answer it if they can |
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| 14:12.30 | nealindia | anybody here to discuss phpmyadmin ideas? |
| 14:12.48 | dhaun | !anyone |
| 14:12.49 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
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| 14:15.52 | skcidea | Is it too late to get in touch with the mentors...??? |
| 14:15.59 | danderson | no. |
| 14:16.24 | skcidea | kk...I was so worried |
| 14:16.41 | danderson | and to find them: |
| 14:16.43 | danderson | !anyone |
| 14:16.44 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
| 14:17.40 | skcidea | kk...I have written mails to orgs and respective mentors...hope I get reply soon |
| 14:18.18 | thebolt | hi mr danderson , how do you do? |
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| 14:18.53 | kblin | hey thebolt, danderson |
| 14:19.03 | thebolt | hi kblin |
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| 14:19.19 | thebolt | what's up? |
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| 14:20.27 | kblin | ah, doing bits of cleanup on the house, my desk and some web pages :) |
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| 14:23.48 | kblin | oh, and I need to add some features to wombat that I can test prospective students on :) |
| 14:24.16 | smtms | kblin, buggy features? :-) |
| 14:24.34 | thebolt | kblin: :) |
| 14:24.38 | kblin | that sounds somewhat likely :) |
| 14:25.18 | kblin | I'd prefer to let them work on real bugs, but so far I don't have enough users to find much of those |
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| 14:29.08 | kblin | nealindia: please keep conversations that don't need to be private out of private messages |
| 14:29.23 | kblin | nealindia: that way more than just one person can read them and possibly reply |
| 14:30.06 | kblin | also, it's considered a bit rude to message people without asking them first, at least on this channel |
| 14:30.18 | nealindia | kblin: ok, sorry about that |
| 14:30.29 | kblin | no problem, just telling you. no harm done |
| 14:31.33 | kblin | you might want to re-ask your question, though |
| 14:32.18 | nealindia | what would be best for someone good at open sourced web technologies in your opinion? |
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| 14:33.14 | merwok | Prosody is a neat Jabber server written in Lua that has some ideas related to the Web. |
| 14:33.37 | merwok | It has a Web interface for administration, stats, Jabber-Web gateways and such. |
| 14:34.11 | kblin | nealindia: well, there's the obvious choice of working on a CMS |
| 14:34.31 | nealindia | i have quite a good experience with Joomla CMD |
| 14:34.32 | nealindia | CMS |
| 14:35.02 | kblin | probably doesn't help this year, though :) |
| 14:35.17 | nealindia | ya :( |
| 14:35.40 | kblin | !orgs |
| 14:35.40 | socinfo | "orgs" is The list of accepted mentoring organizations is here: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
| 14:36.00 | nealindia | or may be drupal.. its their in the list :) |
| 14:36.02 | stas | nealindia: what exactly do you mean by 'open sourced web technologies' ? |
| 14:36.05 | nealindia | will check it out |
| 14:36.15 | kblin | check the list and use the tags field to search for "cms" |
| 14:36.23 | nealindia | meant LAMP, Ajax, Apache (never went into its codebase) |
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| 14:36.34 | kblin | that'll give you a couple of orgs.. (not drupal, as they didn't fill in any tags yet) |
| 14:36.51 | merwok | So open protocols and formats or free software using these protocols? |
| 14:37.14 | stas | merwok: that would be my second question :) |
| 14:37.57 | nealindia | mostly free softwares |
| 14:38.12 | merwok | stas, I read minds, it's faster. |
| 14:38.19 | stas | :) |
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| 14:38.50 | stas | nealindia: facebook has some interesting code to hack, they're open and web oriented also |
| 14:40.48 | nealindia | stas: ya, trying in that.. :) |
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| 14:41.54 | merwok | "open" |
| 14:42.10 | nealindia | also, something in tcp/ udp programming.. have coded many protocols (not completely) as part of my course assignments |
| 14:42.25 | nealindia | and I loved it too... |
| 14:42.48 | merwok | Is there a page where one can read or search all projects ideas? |
| 14:43.21 | nealindia | http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
| 14:43.29 | araujo | we have a list of accepted organizations there ^^ |
| 14:43.37 | araujo | visit their sites to check the ideas list |
| 14:43.46 | merwok | Ok, so the answer is no. :) |
| 14:44.37 | |Kev| | nealindia: if you like protocol stuff, and webby stuff, I've got what I think is an interesting proposal |
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| 14:45.10 | |Kev| | (XMPP for the social web) http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summer_of_Code_2010_Project_Ideas |
| 14:45.20 | araujo | merwok, good it is no, since it is better for each org to maintain the ideas list |
| 14:45.34 | |Kev| | Although the rest of our ideas page needs a lot of fleshing out, I'll keep chasing our mentors for that. |
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| 14:45.53 | merwok | araujo, of course, but the lists could be aggregated. |
| 14:46.42 | merwok | (It's strange to call someone else by their name when you share it :) |
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| 14:47.30 | nealindia | Kev: Thanks for it.. Checking it out |
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| 14:48.21 | |Kev| | nealindia: I'm going AFK now, feel free to drop me a message if you'd like to chat about it (or any other XMPP stuffs). |
| 14:48.41 | nealindia | Kev: Sure, thank you for your time |
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| 14:52.22 | araujo | merwok, the lists?? |
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| 14:53.15 | merwok | The lists of ideas. |
| 14:54.31 | merwok | E.g., the orgs could maintain the list as HTML and Atom, and Google would host aggregated, searchable HTML page and Atom feeds. |
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| 14:55.38 | dhaun | merwok: good luck trying to get 150+ different orgs to agree on such a thing :P |
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| 14:56.45 | araujo | yeah, it is just not viable |
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| 14:57.06 | merwok | Well, Google has convinced thousands of people to add the crappy rel=nofollow instead of fixing their algo for instance, so I guess they could require an Atom list :) |
| 14:57.09 | nealindia | could have asked that in the beginning to maintain their Atom |
| 14:57.43 | araujo | and it is much better to have this info in each project's site |
| 14:58.29 | araujo | not a matter of convincing , just no need for this |
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| 15:06.43 | nealindia | @Kev, are you avaliable? |
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| 15:18.48 | |Kev| | It would be really good to do #gsoc on XMPP next year, if it runs next year. It's frustrating not being able to reply because the person who poked you has gone offline when you get back to your keyboard. |
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| 15:19.40 | Mek | there is memoserv to leave people messages... at least if they have a registered nickname |
| 15:19.49 | kblin | |Kev|: so, how'd that work? irssi doesn't seem to have support for that.. |
| 15:20.01 | yenwod | I think IRC & XMPP are completely different paradigms ... used for different purposes |
| 15:20.04 | |Kev| | kblin: actually, I think there is an irssi xmpp plugin, although I"ve not used it. |
| 15:20.21 | merwok | yenwod, can you elaborate? |
| 15:20.29 | yenwod | If you need to talk to someone directly, contact them via e-mail or ... XMPP :) |
| 15:20.31 | merwok | Jabber seems a superset or IRC to me. |
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| 15:21.09 | |Kev| | yenwod: right, the advantage of using MUC for the groupchat is knowing how to reach someone out of band. |
| 15:21.26 | |Kev| | Anyway, it would be hard for me to be more biased in this, and I accept that :) |
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| 15:23.29 | yenwod | I always felt there was a dearth of clients that suppor the muc xep well ... maybe i'm wrong |
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| 15:23.39 | yenwod | and i haven't particularly looked in quite a while :) |
| 15:23.46 | |Kev| | yenwod: I have mixed feelings on that. |
| 15:24.16 | |Kev| | There are clients that support the MUC /XEP/ very well, yet fail to have quite the same feel of convenience as irssi does for IRC. |
| 15:24.40 | |Kev| | Although I'm in a dozen MUCs all day every day pretty much in Psi, and I cope with that fairly well. |
| 15:24.52 | yenwod | |Kev|: the other thing you're up against is momentum (intertia?) ... if 95% of gsoc projects are already using IRC, #gsoc should as well :) |
| 15:25.19 | |Kev| | yenwod: yes, the social factor is large. |
| 15:25.37 | |Kev| | It's not that I want to kill off IRC (although some XMPPites would like nothing better than for XMPP to be the answer to every question) |
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| 15:26.00 | |Kev| | just that it's a touch frustrating hitting issues here that I know XMPP has already solved. |
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| 15:26.27 | |Kev| | Saying that - one of the projects I'm keen on this year is for a student to overhaul the Psi MUC support to make it more convenient. |
| 15:26.38 | yenwod | |Kev|: kind of like beta v. vhs, blu-ray v. hd-dvd |
| 15:26.49 | |Kev| | Well, quite different to that, really. |
| 15:27.17 | merwok | I hear from time to time the complaint that MUCs are not as good as IRC rooms; I'd love to read some concrete, detailed explanation / comparison. |
| 15:27.20 | |Kev| | In those cases, the other technology died off completely (pretty much) |
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| 15:27.48 | |Kev| | XMPP's still the dominant protocol for one to one and roster-based stuff, while IRC's dominant for groupchat. |
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| 15:28.28 | |Kev| | merwok: it's true, in as much as there are more likely to be IRC channels on the topics you want to discuss than there are to be MUC rooms. |
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| 15:29.29 | merwok | Kev, and there are a lot more people in IRC rooms than on the Jabber rooms I hang around. |
| 15:29.44 | |Kev| | Which is pretty much the same idea. |
| 15:30.06 | |Kev| | The biggest MUC I'm in at the moment is 38 people. |
| 15:30.27 | |Kev| | There are 324 people in here :) |
| 15:30.28 | merwok | jdev? |
| 15:30.31 | |Kev| | Yeah. |
| 15:31.21 | smtms | are MUC implementations tested with large numbers of people? |
| 15:32.06 | |Kev| | I don't know, honestly. |
| 15:32.20 | |Kev| | I know that hundreds of users isn't going to be an issue. Tens of thousands - I don't know. |
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| 15:33.36 | |Kev| | I know some people want to do MUC-that's-more-like-IRC for some very large rooms |
| 15:33.48 | |Kev| | Squelnching presence. |
| 15:33.53 | |Kev| | s/n// |
| 15:34.18 | kblin | downeym: actually this sounds rather like CVS vs. SVN back in the days |
| 15:34.21 | merwok | What is "more like IRC"? |
| 15:34.47 | |Kev| | And also others who want to make the majority of occupants invisible, to save the join/part overhead, and only announce participation of a subset of members. |
| 15:34.56 | |Kev| | merwok: squelching presence, stripping rich content. |
| 15:35.51 | merwok | My client already strips cruft, but ok, servers could do it. |
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| 15:36.10 | |Kev| | It's the servers doing it that's important, if you want to scale to tens of thousands of occupants. |
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| 15:36.31 | merwok | I don't understand "squleching presence". |
| 15:36.36 | |Kev| | It doesn't matter if you're displaying it or not, if you're receiving auto-away from 10,000 people, it'll hurt. |
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| 15:36.50 | |Kev| | (and worse still if you're the MUC that has to fan out this presence) |
| 15:37.00 | downeym | has no doubt that muc is technically superior to irc :) |
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| 15:37.16 | nealindia | Kev, I went through XMPP projects |
| 15:37.18 | |Kev| | merwok: well, only sending presence when it's a join or a part, and swallowing the rest. |
| 15:37.23 | |Kev| | nealindia: welcome back. |
| 15:37.40 | nealindia | Kev, thanks :) |
| 15:37.41 | |Kev| | nealindia: me not being able to reply to you has just spawned a whole discussion on IRC vs. XMPP ;) |
| 15:38.02 | nealindia | Kev: missed it :) |
| 15:38.10 | |Kev| | That was the point :) |
| 15:38.16 | nealindia | hehe |
| 15:38.29 | kblin | !logs |
| 15:38.29 | socinfo | "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc |
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| 15:38.49 | |Kev| | If you'd like to poke me over XMPP, I'm xmpp:kevin@doomsong.co.uk |
| 15:38.55 | nealindia | i m using irc for the first time :) |
| 15:39.46 | merwok | Kev, thanks. Useful indeed. |
| 15:40.24 | merwok | Still, that seems to me good practices easily added to implementations, not proofs of IRC superiority and fancy features. :) |
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| 15:43.50 | |Kev| | merwok: I'm not sure which way to parse that. |
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| 15:44.49 | merwok | Rephrased: The two things you mention seem to be good things, also easily added to MUC servers, but they don't explain to me why people say IRC is better than MUCs. |
| 15:45.12 | |Kev| | Understood :) |
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| 16:09.50 | downeym | IRC is better because more people use it ;-) |
| 16:10.03 | downeym | and because it's older ;-) |
| 16:10.08 | downeym | not sure if there are any other valid reasons |
| 16:10.12 | smtms | Windows is the same |
| 16:10.20 | Afal | what |
| 16:10.42 | downeym | smtms: i wouldn't go that far :D |
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| 16:11.05 | micahcowan | downeym, he's just pointing out that the same argument applies |
| 16:11.08 | algj | hey can anyone tell me how to contact the berkman projects |
| 16:11.19 | |Kev| | !anyone |
| 16:11.19 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
| 16:11.24 | algj | there is no response on irc channel |
| 16:11.29 | |Kev| | Ah. |
| 16:11.33 | |Kev| | Just wait then, I imagine. |
| 16:11.40 | mmadia | !patience |
| 16:11.40 | socinfo | "patience" is very important in GSoC. Check !next and the !timeline and go code something useful. |
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| 16:11.50 | downeym | micahcowan: not really. the perceived value of a communication tool is correlated to the number of people reachable using it :) |
| 16:12.07 | ivhturp | !next |
| 16:12.07 | socinfo | "next" is March 29th -- student applications officially open, but you should start to talk to participating organizations right now! |
| 16:12.24 | mmadia | !countdown |
| 16:12.24 | socinfo | "countdown" is http://tinyurl.com/gsoc2010-student-deadline |
| 16:12.30 | ivhturp | !timeline |
| 16:12.31 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline |
| 16:12.47 | merwok | Oh my, two days. |
| 16:13.04 | algj | i dont know any organisation |
| 16:13.14 | algj | can any one tell me a project on python? |
| 16:13.19 | mmadia | !forget countdown |
| 16:13.20 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
| 16:13.30 | algj | i dont have much knowledge but can work hard |
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| 16:13.40 | ivhturp | !help |
| 16:13.40 | socinfo | "help" is !next, !faq, !advice and !wiki. !botabuse tells you about private query syntax |
| 16:13.41 | Wolf_OSGeo | algj: search for python in the list of organization keywords |
| 16:13.45 | mmadia | !learn countdown as The time left for submitting a student project proposal: http://tinyurl.com/gsoc2010-student-deadline |
| 16:13.45 | socinfo | The operation succeeded. |
| 16:13.46 | algj | python java and c/cpp are my strong points |
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| 16:14.09 | kblin | c preprocessor? :) |
| 16:14.31 | algj | Wolf_OSGeo: i have seen some but i am not able to choose one |
| 16:14.49 | Wolf_OSGeo | algj: see OSGeo socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/org/edit/google/gsoc2010/osgeo |
| 16:14.50 | algj | do i have enough time to make a good proposal |
| 16:14.55 | micahcowan | mmadia, er, no |
| 16:15.01 | Wolf_OSGeo | we have all those languages ;) |
| 16:15.06 | micahcowan | That's the time when proposals start being accepted. |
| 16:15.23 | micahcowan | Oh, or is the countdown different, sorry my bad |
| 16:15.23 | kblin | micahcowan: nope |
| 16:15.36 | kblin | micahcowan: Time until Friday, 9 April 2010, 19:00:00 (UTC time) |
| 16:15.41 | micahcowan | thx, sorry |
| 16:15.55 | mmadia | just getting ready for the 29th :) |
| 16:16.02 | micahcowan | confused by the juxtaposition of !next and !countdown, I guess |
| 16:16.47 | kblin | micahcowan: yeah, too many deadlines |
| 16:16.49 | kblin | ;) |
| 16:17.31 | micahcowan | kblin, yeah, well the !next deadline (to stop dinking around and start thinking of actually writing proposals) ought to be an easy enough one to meet ;) |
| 16:17.42 | algj | There is no entity with the required status. |
| 16:17.46 | algj | Wolf_OSGeo: your link gives the following msg |
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| 16:18.15 | dhaun | algj: try http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/org/show/google/gsoc2010/osgeo |
| 16:18.17 | kblin | micahcowan: right, the really hard deadline is the one the countdown is counting :) |
| 16:18.25 | dhaun | Wolf_OSGeo: you sent him an edit link :) |
| 16:18.37 | Wolf_OSGeo | whoops! |
| 16:18.46 | Wolf_OSGeo | wrong copy paste :S |
| 16:19.35 | Wolf_OSGeo | gives a "beer" to dhaun |
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| 16:20.16 | algj | k |
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| 16:31.06 | dhaun | geez, how hard can it be to understand that "Apply to become a Mentor" is not meant to be used for sending draft proposals? :-/ |
| 16:32.25 | Wolf_OSGeo | dhaun: :) heh |
| 16:32.33 | ajuonline | guess their brains ommit the word "become" |
| 16:32.45 | ajuonline | and read it as Apply to a mentor |
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| 16:33.06 | Wolf_OSGeo | I think they read only apply |
| 16:33.17 | Wolf_OSGeo | and click the first one they see |
| 16:33.18 | ajuonline | =)) |
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| 17:02.12 | aganice | algj, still hoping to hit up the berkman centre? |
| 17:02.32 | algj | yep |
| 17:02.49 | algj | aganice: still hoping |
| 17:02.56 | algj | cause i see i can do the webcrawler |
| 17:02.57 | aganice | algj, i'm checking out projects there too, you're welcome to come toss around ideas with me on #berkman |
| 17:03.23 | algj | where to meet you |
| 17:04.14 | aganice | #berkman |
| 17:04.20 | aganice | the channel, i mean |
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| 17:21.45 | Chill | hi |
| 17:22.06 | Chill | ciswatic, hi |
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| 17:55.28 | camilo | hi there |
| 17:55.35 | nsm | hi |
| 17:55.38 | camilo | what language should the proposal be? can it be non-english? |
| 17:56.23 | camilo | or it depends it depends of the community? |
| 17:57.15 | nsm | stick to english, open source development always happens in english, it's ok if your english isn't top notch, just mention it on the project's ML and people will help you out |
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| 17:58.44 | camilo | wow perfect ;) |
| 17:58.50 | camilo | thanks ;) |
| 17:59.20 | Ivanovic | camilo: in general: talk to your org! |
| 17:59.31 | Ivanovic | though most likely they will ask you to do it all in english |
| 17:59.51 | camilo | ok |
| 18:00.17 | felipeviei | camilo, what country? |
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| 18:01.32 | camilo | perú |
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| 18:01.57 | camilo | but I don't have any problem to make the proposal in english |
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| 18:03.05 | camilo | is just that I already have one ready but in spanish :P ... now the work would consist on traslate it |
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| 18:23.43 | epifanio | hi All |
| 18:24.00 | thiago_home | hi |
| 18:25.20 | epifanio | i'm a 2009 gsoc student. Please, can you help me to add myself as student for the gsoc 2010 ? i'm on : http://socghop.appspot.com/site/home/site but i can't find the right link to apply |
| 18:25.42 | dhaun | epifanio: you're too early |
| 18:25.44 | dhaun | !next |
| 18:25.45 | socinfo | "next" is March 29th -- student applications officially open, but you should start to talk to participating organizations right now! |
| 18:26.13 | epifanio | ah! .. sorry :-/ . thanks ! |
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| 19:02.23 | WWS | one day left before applications begin |
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| 19:03.03 | thiago_home | I think a bit more |
| 19:03.10 | thiago_home | !timeline |
| 19:03.10 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline |
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| 19:03.46 | SukhE | 48 hours. |
| 19:03.49 | thiago_home | we're close to 47 hours away |
| 19:03.52 | thiago_home | 48 |
| 19:05.11 | WWS | oh sorry |
| 19:05.14 | WWS | i;m in india |
| 19:05.18 | WWS | so its 28th here |
| 19:05.25 | thiago_home | that doesn't matter |
| 19:05.27 | WWS | i didnt see the UTC |
| 19:05.28 | thiago_home | it's still 48 hours away |
| 19:05.31 | WWS | yeah |
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| 19:06.27 | WWS | so does google or the mentoring organizations decide which projects are selceted |
| 19:07.35 | dhaun | the orgs decide |
| 19:07.38 | thiago_home | yes |
| 19:07.47 | dhaun | Google decides how many slot an org gets |
| 19:08.18 | WWS | and the org decide which student get which slot.. |
| 19:08.23 | dhaun | right |
| 19:08.27 | WWS | thanks |
| 19:08.28 | ajuonline | random OT question, what do you understand when I talk about FOSS doing "global public good" what kinda projects? |
| 19:09.20 | thiago_home | OLPC |
| 19:09.45 | WinterMute | apache |
| 19:09.48 | WinterMute | mysql |
| 19:09.58 | WinterMute | gnu/linux |
| 19:10.00 | WinterMute | gcc |
| 19:10.07 | merwok | Well, OLPC pre-microsoft deal. |
| 19:10.11 | ajuonline | o boi. |
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| 19:10.31 | merwok | ajuonline, Wikipedia. |
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| 19:11.22 | ajuonline | so, the whole of foss does "global good" ? |
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| 19:12.12 | ajuonline | if i were to differentiate or create a line, between projects like apache, mysql, debian etc and wikipedia, openstreetmap, ushahidi, how do i go about it? |
| 19:12.12 | thiago_home | to some extent, yes |
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| 19:12.37 | thiago_home | ajuonline: you'd find one or more criteria that allows you to split along those lines |
| 19:12.41 | thiago_home | then apply it |
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| 19:13.02 | thiago_home | any criteria will do |
| 19:13.21 | dhaun | direct vs. indirect effects? gcc indirectly affects a lot of things - OLPC, Sahana, OpenMRS: more direct |
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| 19:14.40 | merwok | Debian can be seen as an experiment in self-government too. Does that contribute to public good? |
| 19:15.14 | WWS | what about user based.. as in who uses a partcular software... apache, mysql, debian, python, php are more likely to be used by developers and wikipedia, openstreetmap, ushahidi etc more to end users |
| 19:15.37 | ajuonline | i am trying to understand a statement, when we say, Sahana is FOSS that helps save lives, |
| 19:15.42 | merwok | Does the spread of playful understanding and crafting of programs, i.e. hacking, contribute to make the world a better place because it's a form of art? |
| 19:15.43 | ajuonline | someone said, even Linux does that :/ |
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| 19:17.00 | ajuonline | i mean, if we have Sahana running on a lamp stack, maybe i'd agree. but i am trying to understand what am I missing here :P |
| 19:17.11 | WWS | sahana is a disaster management system, of course it'll save lives... it has a php and python port... can you then php and python save lives? |
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| 19:18.10 | smtms | do snakes save lives? |
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| 19:21.47 | WWS | yes they do smts.. snake venom is very important in medical research and studies have shown that the venom may have cancer curing abilities.. :P |
| 19:22.08 | WWS | besides the point ajuonline, what are you getting at? |
| 19:22.45 | smtms | misdirecting students I assume :-P |
| 19:22.59 | ajuonline | WWS: trying to identify "criteria" that thiago_home talked about =) |
| 19:23.21 | ajuonline | is gonna send all students to smtms this year :P |
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| 19:23.25 | WWS | criteria to define foss projects? |
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| 19:33.52 | WWS | can a student applicant submit more than one project idea during application? |
| 19:34.08 | Catfish_Man | yes, up to 20 |
| 19:34.13 | Catfish_Man | although you'd have to be crazy to hit the limit |
| 19:34.40 | merwok | The FAQ and the ToS are quite short and very useful. |
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| 19:53.17 | ajuonline | WWS: were you not ranting the other day about students from India asking for ideas on twitter? ;) |
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| 19:58.31 | WWS | yes aju i was.. |
| 19:58.38 | WWS | why? |
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| 20:05.56 | ajuonline | WWS: oh nothing, because I saw you doing the same too. so. ;) |
| 20:07.02 | WWS | no... i wanted to find a drupal person to look through my proposal on their boards |
| 20:07.16 | WWS | its a little different |
| 20:08.44 | WWS | apparently some people on the drupal community were against flash based themes.. |
| 20:09.07 | drt24 | seems reasonable ;-) |
| 20:09.13 | WWS | i wanted to know if that was a general opinion or if my proposal was a bad idea |
| 20:13.39 | WinterMute | did you get a consensus? |
| 20:14.04 | WinterMute | hates flash based themes in general |
| 20:14.45 | merwok | hates flash. |
| 20:14.58 | Catfish_Man | as3's a pretty nice language |
| 20:15.24 | WWS | yeah wintermute and merwoks response are the typical ones |
| 20:15.31 | Catfish_Man | and flex isn't bad either; not a fan of the core flash api though |
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| 20:16.13 | drt24 | I have read a little actionscript for a projct I was doing. It involved a lot of gotos. I disliked it. |
| 20:16.25 | Catfish_Man | they were doing it wrong then |
| 20:16.26 | WinterMute | well, yeah, as3's a nice language, great for web games & apps |
| 20:16.37 | drt24 | I used google visualizer instead, it was nicer :-) |
| 20:17.02 | WinterMute | it's the entire flash website thing I'm not really that keen on but maybe it's just never done well |
| 20:17.31 | Catfish_Man | WinterMute: it's pretty poorly suited to that for a variety of reasons |
| 20:17.38 | Catfish_Man | although at least they *finally* got scrollwheel support on OSX |
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| 20:19.08 | WWS | other than jquery what other alternatives dyu have for animation on browsers? |
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| 20:19.57 | WWS | and you dont have to have the entire site on flash |
| 20:20.35 | Catfish_Man | WWS: jquery isn't doing anything other people can't do :P |
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| 20:23.46 | WWS | i agree.. |
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| 20:47.01 | neptunepink | !next |
| 20:47.01 | socinfo | "next" is March 29th -- student applications officially open, but you should start to talk to participating organizations right now! |
| 20:47.28 | thiago_home | 46 hours left |
| 20:47.38 | neptunepink | omgomgomgomgomgomg? |
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| 20:47.56 | thiago_home | it's when they open |
| 20:48.00 | thiago_home | not when it closes |
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| 20:58.09 | skcidea | Can I get contact of openimageio mentors? |
| 20:58.17 | skcidea | nyone plzz... |
| 20:58.27 | mmadia42 | !orgs |
| 20:58.27 | socinfo | "orgs" is The list of accepted mentoring organizations is here: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
| 20:58.31 | merwok | !anyone |
| 20:58.31 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
| 21:00.24 | skcidea | yes...I am aware of that...but there are no contacts...neither is there nyone on #openimageio channel...nor is there any contact on the organization profile page |
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| 21:01.46 | mmadia42 | do their pages mention a mailing list? |
| 21:01.58 | danderson | http://openimageio.org/wiki/index.php?title=SOC_Info |
| 21:02.06 | danderson | this suggests that you should contact them on their mailing list |
| 21:02.13 | danderson | and the mailing list link is on their home page |
| 21:02.52 | skcidea | okay...ty |
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| 22:41.23 | kblin | ah, much better :) |
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| 23:01.27 | crieger | ahoi |
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| 23:08.31 | |Kev| | Ahoi. |
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