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| 00:42.37 | patrick42h | !help |
| 00:42.38 | socinfo | "help" is !next, !faq, !advice and !wiki. !botabuse tells you about private query syntax |
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| 00:42.46 | patrick42h | !advice |
| 00:42.46 | socinfo | "advice" is http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforStudents for students, http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforMentors for mentors |
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| 01:28.08 | skbohra_ | good morning people |
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| 01:35.26 | Manca | good evening ;) |
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| 01:56.31 | patrick42h | hello |
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| 01:57.59 | bawr | Greetings. |
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| 02:32.32 | S4nD3r | right back |
| 02:33.24 | S4nD3r | Is there any Brazilian? (sorry to repeat this question, but my connection was offline, Ididnt see any msg |
| 02:34.19 | S4nD3r | not sure |
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| 02:34.44 | S4nD3r | maybe are here are workaholic |
| 02:34.50 | S4nD3r | all** |
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| 02:37.45 | robbyoconnor | S4nD3r: ping the meetups list |
| 02:38.06 | S4nD3r | hun? |
| 02:39.15 | robbyoconnor | I created this list in 2008 when i did my first stint and handed it over to lh (now gone -- new job and all) and reliquished control |
| 02:39.28 | robbyoconnor | but the purpose was to alleviate traffic on the main student list |
| 02:39.30 | robbyoconnor | http://groups.google.com/group/google-soc-meetups |
| 02:40.06 | S4nD3r | so, I just was looking for a globus mentor |
| 02:40.22 | S4nD3r | but, anyway, I'll contact it by email |
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| 03:01.34 | d4ddi01 | I am preparing to upload an SoC proposal... |
| 03:02.08 | d4ddi01 | Can I fix it once it is in the sytem, or do I need to do all the cleanup before I post it? |
| 03:02.24 | d4ddi01 | s/sytem.system/ |
| 03:03.03 | d4ddi01 | ping? |
| 03:03.45 | ankitg | d4ddi01: you can edit all the way upto the deadline ... |
| 03:03.57 | d4ddi01 | thanks. |
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| 03:04.58 | d4ddi01 | ankitg: Can I make it visible to anyone else? |
| 03:06.14 | ankitg | d4ddi01: I believe the mentors see it one you post and are notified of a new proposal ... but ou can still edit upto the deadline and add comments afterwards ... |
| 03:06.17 | MatthewWilkes | d4ddi01: Yeah, click make public. |
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| 03:13.01 | OliJG | The registration cutoff date is April 9th... does the project proposal have to be finalized by that date too? |
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| 03:14.13 | MatthewWilkes | OliJG: The org can still ask for more details after that but do not rely on it, we'll be busy |
| 03:15.25 | OliJG | How exactly does the project proposal system work? I don't see anything on the site where I can add it. |
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| 03:18.04 | OliJG | Is it the student, the mentor or the open source project that makes the proposals? Or some combination? |
| 03:18.19 | Catfish_Man | combination |
| 03:18.43 | Catfish_Man | the organization posts a list, most of the items of which come from mentors. Students can propose ideas not on the list if they like |
| 03:19.52 | OliJG | In this case organization means the open source project I take it? |
| 03:21.09 | Catfish_Man | yeah |
| 03:21.59 | OliJG | Does GSOC look over that list or is that just the organization's responsibility? |
| 03:22.32 | Catfish_Man | the latter |
| 03:23.49 | OliJG | Ok, thanks |
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| 03:28.02 | robbyoconnor | OliJG: mind you, that if you do not meet eligibility requirements you wont get to partake, even if you're selected! |
| 03:29.17 | OliJG | robbyoconnor: Eligibility requirements including what? Is this other than being a student over 18? |
| 03:29.59 | robbyoconnor | being enrolled as of the required date |
| 03:31.10 | OliJG | robbyoconnor: I am enrolled as in I submitted the form on the gsoc site a couple days back. |
| 03:31.24 | robbyoconnor | you're fine then :) |
| 03:31.54 | OliJG | robbyoconnor: Should I be getting some kind of reply asking for documentation by April 9th? |
| 03:32.11 | robbyoconnor | only after selected |
| 03:32.17 | robbyoconnor | hang tight |
| 03:32.18 | robbyoconnor | :) |
| 03:33.02 | OliJG | Thanks for the info |
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| 04:15.16 | infinity0 | !timeline |
| 04:15.16 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline |
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| 05:30.52 | neptunepink | !next |
| 05:30.52 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are open. Apply now at http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/student/apply/google/gsoc2010 ! Deadline is April 9: 12 noon PDT / 19:00 UTC. |
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| 07:17.03 | dholbach | good morning |
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| 08:01.34 | Manca | hey guys... anyone here from NMAP? |
| 08:01.56 | |Kev| | !anyone |
| 08:01.56 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
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| 08:14.17 | chemical | hi |
| 08:15.43 | Mitar | hi |
| 08:16.02 | chemical | how are you? |
| 08:16.06 | Mitar | great |
| 08:16.30 | thebolt | Hi |
| 08:16.46 | chemical | well |
| 08:16.56 | chemical | can you help me ? |
| 08:17.10 | Mitar | it depends ;-) |
| 08:17.36 | chemical | i am taking info about a software to develop a new project |
| 08:17.50 | chemical | the name's Stimulsoft.reports.wpf |
| 08:17.55 | chemical | do you know this software? |
| 08:18.04 | Mitar | no |
| 08:18.20 | chemical | ;) |
| 08:18.21 | kai | is this related to gsoc at all? :) |
| 08:18.29 | kai | !gsoc |
| 08:18.29 | socinfo | "gsoc" is gsoc refers to the Google Summer of Code, not Generic Savoire-faire on Open-source Conundrums. |
| 08:18.41 | kai | not that this channel is terribly busy right now, of course |
| 08:18.59 | chemical | i believed here i could try info about software for coding |
| 08:19.02 | chemical | ;) |
| 08:19.04 | Dark_Shikari | lol |
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| 08:21.40 | chemical | thanks |
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| 08:37.33 | thebolt | Morning kai |
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| 08:39.27 | kai | morning thebolt |
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| 08:43.03 | thebolt | how's it going? |
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| 08:47.36 | kai | trying to focus on work, while being distracted by my inability to build samba for android |
| 08:48.03 | kai | and now I'm wondering if I can install a debian chroot on the simulator and natively build samba in there :) |
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| 08:48.41 | |Kev| | Which does beg the question of ... why? :) |
| 08:49.24 | loupgaroublond | 'is that samba in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?' |
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| 08:55.52 | kai | |Kev|: because it'd be cool? |
| 08:56.38 | kai | |Kev|: Looking at the hardware, any android phone should be good enough to run an active directory domain controller for a small network |
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| 08:57.03 | kai | |Kev|: and you can't do this on windows phones ;) |
| 08:57.05 | |Kev| | Heh. |
| 08:58.04 | kai | also, I've got a talk about this in a month |
| 08:58.07 | kai | http://www.sambaxp.org/index.php?id=154 |
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| 08:59.40 | evoc | Hi, just a quick one. Whre is the steps information required for applying students without reading pages of info? :p |
| 09:00.24 | danderson | !faq |
| 09:00.24 | socinfo | "faq" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs |
| 09:00.34 | danderson | if that's too long to read, you probably shouldn't apply. |
| 09:00.51 | danderson | your application will have to be at least as detailed to be acceptable, frankly :) |
| 09:01.20 | evoc | ta |
| 09:01.50 | kai | also, I'd expect students to be able to digest pages of information about the technology they'll be using |
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| 09:04.28 | evoc | sure, just sort of wanted to skip the pages of information that states things I already know. |
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| 09:04.52 | evoc | faq was prob a good idea ;) |
| 09:05.58 | Waren | yo |
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| 09:31.39 | bawr | kai: Arguably, the real problem is having them digest screenfuls of code they'll be interacting with. :) |
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| 10:03.15 | sanjoyd | A question to the more experienced people on this channel - what would you say is the best way for students to learn a large code-base as fast as possible? This will obviously depend on the exact code-base and the development environment, but I'm sure there are a few generic tips as well. |
| 10:04.15 | Chainsaw | sanjoyd: Get your hands dirty. |
| 10:04.21 | gloob | sanjoyd: there's tests in the project ? |
| 10:04.22 | Chainsaw | sanjoyd: Make changes, see it break. |
| 10:04.30 | gloob | Chainsaw: yeah, debug debug debug |
| 10:04.46 | |Kev| | sanjoyd: find the issue tracker. Find an issue. Write a patch. |
| 10:04.46 | gloob | sanjoyd: architectural docs ? |
| 10:04.56 | sanjoyd | gloob, this does not concern me directly, I'm just curious. But I guess every decent project would do. |
| 10:05.13 | mlankhorst | sanjoyd: have them build it and let them work with it :) |
| 10:05.19 | gloob | sanjoyd: tests are a good way to discover API in action |
| 10:05.25 | sanjoyd | gloob, agreed. |
| 10:05.56 | sanjoyd | I find the 'make it break' approach useful. |
| 10:06.21 | gloob | sanjoyd: but as mlankhorst, |Kev| and Chainsaw say, get dirty is the best way to learn. |
| 10:06.29 | sanjoyd | :) |
| 10:07.11 | gloob | $ make break // =) |
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| 10:07.38 | gloob | maybe autotools should adopt break as a default phony |
| 10:07.43 | mlankhorst | wine is lucky though, has tons of online information at msdn.microsoft.com but just as any documentation without tests it's useless ;p |
| 10:08.42 | infinity0 | hmm, what the fuck... just got an email from my uni claiming to advertise gsoc, yet 2/3 of the text is shameless plugging freebsd :| |
| 10:08.46 | infinity0 | serisouly, what. the. fuck. |
| 10:08.52 | mlankhorst | :} |
| 10:09.06 | infinity0 | who the fuck submitted that, i wonder :| |
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| 10:10.53 | infinity0 | wait, did i say 2/3, i meant 5/6 |
| 10:11.01 | mlankhorst | my first year 'introduction to linux' had me working with emacs.. |
| 10:11.20 | Dark_Shikari | sanjoyd: how large is large? |
| 10:11.26 | Dark_Shikari | 50kloc? 500kloc? 5mloc? |
| 10:11.47 | ajuonline | infinity0: we dont swear in here :P |
| 10:18.02 | sanjoyd | Lets say, somewhere between 500k and im. |
| 10:18.07 | sanjoyd | *1M |
| 10:18.34 | sanjoyd | I guess that is large enough for a moderately competent student to grasp without being too trivial. |
| 10:19.16 | bawr | mlankhorst: Our Linux introduction classes used vi. No, not vim. After I told people about nano, everyone loved me. ;) |
| 10:19.20 | Dark_Shikari | Is it modular, or does the student have to understand most of it to work with it>? |
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| 10:19.34 | sanjoyd | gloob, make break should give funny errors. Like the code not being emotionally available. |
| 10:19.37 | Dark_Shikari | e.g. ffmpeg is 500KLOC and modular (each encoder/decoder is mostly its own, except for shared utility bits) |
| 10:19.48 | Chainsaw | bawr: And don't believe the hype either. I've gotten 10+ kernel commits in and I use nano. |
| 10:20.20 | Chainsaw | bawr: So it's not that you need to know vi or vim to be a successful systems administrator, open-source developer or kernel developer. |
| 10:20.42 | bawr | Chainsaw: I have yet to find an editor I truly liked. Vim and Emacs are handy, but I hate them both. |
| 10:20.51 | sanjoyd | Dark_Shikari, I don't have anything specific in mind - by learning the code base I mean having a detailed general idea of what makes the system tick. |
| 10:21.15 | Chainsaw | bawr: There are quite a few vim users where I work. |
| 10:21.27 | Chainsaw | bawr: But I've always used pico. And now nano. |
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| 10:21.45 | bawr | infinity0: Probably just like with the Pylons guy, whoever advertised it was in cahoots with FreeBSD. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that. :) |
| 10:22.06 | kai | Chainsaw: well, there's features in emacs and vim that I'm missing in other editors |
| 10:22.21 | bawr | But wait, you got an ad for GSoC *now*, when there's three days left? |
| 10:22.22 | kai | like macro recording for repetitive tasks |
| 10:22.31 | Dark_Shikari | sanjoyd: "detailed general idea"... =p |
| 10:22.41 | kai | bawr: that's how I got into my first gsoc |
| 10:22.50 | infinity0 | bawr: just seems a bit disingenuous |
| 10:22.51 | Dark_Shikari | I would say that you should give the student questions, like a scavenger hunt |
| 10:22.54 | Dark_Shikari | figure out How This Works |
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| 10:22.58 | Dark_Shikari | or What Does It Do In This Case |
| 10:23.00 | kai | bawr: deadline was monday, I head about it two days before |
| 10:23.01 | Dark_Shikari | answer simple questions |
| 10:23.05 | Dark_Shikari | that require navigating the codebase |
| 10:23.06 | infinity0 | http://pastebin.com/tnV3pLCL is the text btw |
| 10:23.09 | Dark_Shikari | This could even be part of a qualification task |
| 10:23.13 | Dark_Shikari | to prove the student _can_ do it. |
| 10:23.20 | kai | bawr: it's certainly possible with lots of coffee and not much sleep :) |
| 10:23.23 | Ian_Corne | Where would be the best place to suggest something concerning a webpage of google? |
| 10:24.09 | sanjoyd | Dark_Shikari, a) I *am* a student and b) I don't have anything specific in mind except perhaps making good use of so many experienced people present here. :) |
| 10:24.10 | bawr | Dark_Shikari: I'd assign them a simple bugfix, really. That's what I do to know new code. Find a simple bug, fix it. |
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| 10:24.24 | Dark_Shikari | well, this is the method my operating systems class used |
| 10:24.30 | Dark_Shikari | we had to learn how a kernel worked |
| 10:24.34 | Dark_Shikari | so we could write patches for it |
| 10:24.37 | bawr | kai: Not saying it's not possible. It's just, well, not well planned if they want to help people in. |
| 10:24.42 | Dark_Shikari | so we were sent on scavenger hunts to answer a bunch of questions |
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| 10:25.01 | kai | bawr: I'm just saying this sounds like typical university timing |
| 10:25.09 | bawr | Dark_Shikari: Sounds... American. ;) |
| 10:25.22 | mlankhorst | bawr: kate is nice :) |
| 10:25.27 | bawr | But yeah, that'd work too, if you want to assist people. |
| 10:25.42 | kai | bawr: I didn't bother sending anything this year, as the applicaton period is during semester break and easter |
| 10:25.46 | bawr | With Open Source, it's more about finding people who can manage well enough without hand-holding. ;) |
| 10:26.04 | Dark_Shikari | bawr: er, where did I ever say hand holding? |
| 10:26.09 | Dark_Shikari | a scavenger hunt is the opposite of hand holding |
| 10:26.15 | Dark_Shikari | "here's a bunch of shit, find it" |
| 10:26.19 | Dark_Shikari | "no help" |
| 10:26.25 | bawr | It's still too much, IMHO. |
| 10:26.45 | Dark_Shikari | asking a student to write a bugfix with no hints is testing the wrong skills IMO |
| 10:26.54 | Dark_Shikari | because those skills are totally useless in GSOC |
| 10:26.59 | Dark_Shikari | a student is not a maintenance programmer |
| 10:27.07 | bawr | mlankhorst: One of these days I hope to pull a Knuth on editors. |
| 10:27.18 | bawr | Disappear for 20 years, come back with an editor that's atcually good. |
| 10:27.31 | mlankhorst | Dark_Shikari: not really, you do need those skills |
| 10:27.48 | Dark_Shikari | imo a student shouldn't edit code he does not understand |
| 10:27.51 | Dark_Shikari | for that matter, NOBODY should. |
| 10:27.58 | Dark_Shikari | and maintenance programming == editing code you don't understand |
| 10:28.17 | Dark_Shikari | and diving in and trying to fix a bug as fast as possible without learning anything is exactly that |
| 10:28.31 | mlankhorst | ok so if your code is correct, but breaks something else because of a bug that is previously hidden, shouldn't you be able to fix that? |
| 10:28.42 | Dark_Shikari | Sure. But you have to learn about it first |
| 10:28.53 | Dark_Shikari | and saying "fix this bug" doesn't force the student to learn about it before fixing it |
| 10:28.58 | bawr | Dark_Shikari: Let me put it this way - I think most good fits don't need a Scavenger Hunt, because they do a Scavenger Hunt on their own. |
| 10:29.16 | Dark_Shikari | True, so you can do a reverse scavenger hunt |
| 10:29.19 | sanjoyd | Bugfixes are good if they involve hunting around. Fixing a binary search on a array of FooBars, comparing it with FooBarCompare does not teach anyting. |
| 10:29.21 | Dark_Shikari | which is what I did for one prospective developer |
| 10:29.42 | Dark_Shikari | i.e. "you read this section of the code, figure out how it works, and then when you're done, _I'll_ ask you questions" |
| 10:29.49 | mlankhorst | sanjoyd: wine is a lot about doing hunting around, not fixing random bugs :) |
| 10:29.52 | Dark_Shikari | so you ask the questions after, instead of before |
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| 10:30.28 | mlankhorst | Once you know how where the bug is, you have 40% of the fix, once you know how windows behaves, you have 80%, last 20% is usually whipping up a small patch + testcase |
| 10:30.36 | Dark_Shikari | lol @ "windows behaves" |
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| 10:31.23 | sanjoyd | mlankhorst, what I meant was that bug-fixes, like Dark_Shikari said, may involve little or no domain specific knowledge; which is what I guess what you want a student to gain. |
| 10:31.37 | mlankhorst | sanjoyd: true |
| 10:31.41 | Dark_Shikari | it's not just domain knowledge, but figuring out what the code does and why it does it |
| 10:31.45 | Dark_Shikari | the why is often very important |
| 10:31.55 | Dark_Shikari | students often merely focus on the what and how, not the why |
| 10:32.03 | Dark_Shikari | I encourage students to just _ask_ any question they want |
| 10:32.06 | mlankhorst | brb, buying food |
| 10:32.11 | Dark_Shikari | because figuring out the "why" is often better done by asking than by reading. |
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| 10:32.59 | bawr | Dark_Shikari: True enough. |
| 10:33.23 | Dark_Shikari | of course, my qualification tasks are a lot more like your idea |
| 10:33.41 | Dark_Shikari | tell them what they have to do, give them a vague summary of the things that have to be done to make it work, and tell them to go nuts. |
| 10:33.45 | mlankhorst | Dark_Shikari: depends though, I usually think the why should be self explanatory, if not a comment might be needed :) |
| 10:33.52 | bawr | Who are you mentoring for, anyway? |
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| 10:34.01 | Dark_Shikari | bawr: x264, under videolan |
| 10:34.06 | Dark_Shikari | mlankhorst: well, our rule on comments is as follows |
| 10:34.11 | Dark_Shikari | (which we don't follow, but whatever) |
| 10:34.20 | johnk | Hello... I've got a question... Am i eligible to participate if I am studying at high school? The faq only explicitly lists colleges and universities |
| 10:34.21 | Dark_Shikari | no comments for things that someone who has proper domain knowledge should know |
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| 10:34.32 | Dark_Shikari | comments are for gotchas specific to the application |
| 10:34.34 | |Kev| | !eligible |
| 10:34.34 | socinfo | "eligible" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#student_eligibility |
| 10:35.03 | Dark_Shikari | e.g. "this is this way because the spec says this" is not written unless the spec is REALLY stupid or REALLY obscure/etc |
| 10:35.20 | Dark_Shikari | since you're expected to know the basics of said spec. |
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| 10:36.21 | kai | Dark_Shikari: I like the way samba code is commented |
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| 10:36.35 | johnk | thanks, I've already read that... once again, that only explicitly lists universities, colleges and undergraduate programmes... I think I don't fall into any of that category, nevertheless I am studying at school |
| 10:36.42 | Dark_Shikari | kai: how's that in particular? |
| 10:36.49 | |Kev| | johnk: read the whole paragraph. |
| 10:37.02 | mlankhorst | kai: You mean by hosting the docs at microsoft.com? ;) |
| 10:37.11 | Dark_Shikari | lol |
| 10:37.13 | |Kev| | "You are eligible to apply if you are enrolled in an accredited pre-university educational program provided you meet all of the other eligibility requirements." |
| 10:37.27 | kai | Dark_Shikari: it's full of /* Right, so Win2k sends null-terminated utf8 here, while OS2 sends non-null terminated OEM encoding */ |
| 10:37.31 | johnk | yeah, well I am not sure what "accredited" means in my country |
| 10:37.36 | kai | Dark_Shikari: that and ascii art |
| 10:37.38 | Dark_Shikari | kai: Yeah, those are good comments |
| 10:37.42 | Dark_Shikari | ascii art is also extremely good |
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| 10:38.01 | Dark_Shikari | basically I would say that comments should go for anything that an expert in the topic would not immediately understand |
| 10:38.04 | kai | mlankhorst: ms documents only the microsoft behavior, no good if OS/2 behaves differently |
| 10:38.12 | Dark_Shikari | where said expert has NOT worked with samba. |
| 10:38.17 | Dark_Shikari | (or whatever the app is) |
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| 10:38.42 | Dark_Shikari | also, comments are critical for answering "why" of course |
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| 10:38.48 | Dark_Shikari | when the answer to "why" isn't "because the spec says so" |
| 10:38.48 | mlankhorst | kai: Yeah, those gotchas are the type of comments you need :) |
| 10:39.06 | mlankhorst | something like /* increment x by 1 */ x += 2; is stupid |
| 10:39.14 | Dark_Shikari | lol |
| 10:39.27 | mlankhorst | since code and comments usually differ after someone changes it |
| 10:39.39 | Dark_Shikari | of course. |
| 10:39.48 | Dark_Shikari | http://pastebin.org/138791 <--here's one example of code that is completely opaque without the comment |
| 10:39.55 | Dark_Shikari | "hmm, a bunch of 1s and 0s and -1s" |
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| 10:40.10 | Dark_Shikari | "oh wait, you're checking all sets of vectors that differ by at most two components. that's easy" |
| 10:40.41 | mlankhorst | isn't there an easier way? |
| 10:40.46 | *** join/#gsoc kunguz (~Kaan@95.14.5.68) |
| 10:40.53 | Dark_Shikari | probably not a faster way |
| 10:41.03 | Dark_Shikari | It used to be a recursive set of macros |
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| 10:41.16 | Dark_Shikari | Then we realized that bloating the code by 20 kilobytes was a bad idea |
| 10:41.21 | johnk | |Kev|, just to be sure, it's all right if I am studying at any kind of school, anywhere in the world, and meet the other requirements? |
| 10:41.43 | bawr | Dark_Shikari: Ooh, x264 sounds interesting indeed. |
| 10:41.55 | Dark_Shikari | bawr: http://wiki.videolan.org/SoC_x264_2010 |
| 10:42.03 | mlankhorst | f (x1 - 1 <= x2 && x2 <= x1 + 1 || x2 - 1 <= x1 && x1 <= x2 + 1) |
| 10:42.04 | danderson | johnk: define your school. |
| 10:42.16 | mlankhorst | rinse repeat for y, z, u |
| 10:42.21 | Dark_Shikari | mlankhorst: sounds slower ;) |
| 10:42.24 | Dark_Shikari | and probably larger |
| 10:42.27 | infinity0 | johnk: i believe the FAQ says "accredited academic institution", just read it, there are details there |
| 10:42.29 | Dark_Shikari | i.e. the code generated by that would be larger than said table |
| 10:42.49 | Dark_Shikari | one thing people often don't realize is how large their code is, for performance reasons a table is often better than equivalent code |
| 10:42.52 | danderson | is it accredited by your local government to provide education? Can you get some document from said place that says you are a student there? If you were to transfer to university of something similar, would they say "Oh, yeah, that's definitely an educational institution" ? |
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| 10:44.10 | danderson | please don't force me to provide the perfect generic definition that will exactly define what is and is not acceptable. The best I can offer is definition by enumeration. Tell me where you study, and I'll tell you if you meet the requirements. |
| 10:44.23 | johnk | Yes, I can provide document that I am studying there... and yes, any university will accept me after I complete this school |
| 10:44.34 | Dark_Shikari | then it's an accredited school |
| 10:44.36 | Dark_Shikari | and you're good to go. |
| 10:45.01 | danderson | that is correct, assuming you meet all the other criteria (enrolled at the cutoff date, >18yo, etc. |
| 10:45.19 | johnk | yes, I meet al the other criteria... cool, thanks |
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| 10:45.51 | johnk | one other question, do I have to provide official translation of the documents that say I am enrolled student? |
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| 10:46.26 | bawr | Dark_Shikari: Oh, you provide IRC shells fot students? ;) |
| 10:46.45 | bawr | The least relevant piece, but caught my eye, heh. |
| 10:46.49 | danderson | johnk: what language? |
| 10:46.50 | Dark_Shikari | bawr: yes, we have a guy who does that |
| 10:46.55 | johnk | Slovak |
| 10:46.57 | Dark_Shikari | that's his contribution to the project ;) |
| 10:47.00 | danderson | but, in general, no. An informal translation is enough |
| 10:47.01 | Dark_Shikari | any developer who wants one can get one |
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| 10:47.10 | Dark_Shikari | They are... extremely useful :) |
| 10:47.22 | Dark_Shikari | is on one |
| 10:47.28 | danderson | johnk: if your school can provide a certificate or something in english, that would be ideal, but that can be flexible. |
| 10:48.20 | bawr | Well, I have my own with a spiffy domain name to boot, but that's very sane of your project. :) |
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| 10:48.34 | Dark_Shikari | bawr: lol |
| 10:48.41 | mlankhorst | g2g |
| 10:48.42 | *** part/#gsoc mlankhorst (~mlankhors@wine/developer/mlankhorst) |
| 10:49.01 | Dark_Shikari | what's the point of a spiffy domain if you use a hostmask |
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| 10:49.58 | johnk | I don't think they can provide any official document in english, unfortunately... but I should be able to translate it on my own |
| 10:49.59 | bawr | Actually, I forgot. :) |
| 10:50.39 | muzPayneGSoC | hello guys |
| 10:50.46 | muzPayneGSoC | i want to ask one question |
| 10:51.03 | muzPayneGSoC | can I somehow append PDF file to my proposal? |
| 10:51.16 | bawr | Link it. |
| 10:51.18 | |Kev| | muzPayneGSoC: yes, host it somewhere yourself, then include a link. |
| 10:51.29 | muzPayneGSoC | ok |
| 10:51.41 | muzPayneGSoC | and it will not be a problem? |
| 10:51.58 | muzPayneGSoC | because Create a new document from GSoC page |
| 10:52.06 | muzPayneGSoC | in not very usefull for me |
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| 10:52.24 | bawr | Dark_Shikari: Well, I don't feel like bugging the sysops just for this, but for the record, it's @russell.holyhandgrenade.info. :) |
| 10:52.34 | Dark_Shikari | aw, .info |
| 10:52.36 | Dark_Shikari | .info is lame |
| 10:52.53 | *** join/#gsoc pufuwozu` (~user@CPE-58-173-225-58.sqgt1.woo.bigpond.net.au) |
| 10:52.59 | bawr | Not when it's sitting behind a holy hand grenade it's not. |
| 10:53.00 | Dark_Shikari | if you were really web 2.0, you'd use holyhandgrana.de ;) |
| 10:53.09 | Dark_Shikari | er, grena.de |
| 10:53.21 | *** join/#gsoc jaideep__ (~jaideep@117.199.119.241) |
| 10:53.23 | bawr | Meh, I hate thos.e |
| 10:53.35 | Dark_Shikari | tho.se |
| 10:53.39 | danderson | holy shit, holyhandgrena.de is available |
| 10:53.41 | bawr | >:| |
| 10:53.48 | Dark_Shikari | lol |
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| 10:54.24 | muzPayneGSoC | ok thanks for help |
| 10:54.36 | danderson | aw, but handgrena.de is taken |
| 10:54.43 | bawr | Also, if I wanted to be brief or something, there's always int8.org. I should kick my friend and finally start something there. *sigh* |
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| 10:55.08 | bawr | Aww, they even have a haiku. |
| 10:55.09 | Dark_Shikari | well, we have x264.com, which we should use for something eventually |
| 10:55.26 | Dark_Shikari | that domain is probably worth a few dozen grand |
| 10:55.47 | ajuonline | how does one evaluate that? domain appraisals? :P |
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| 10:55.51 | Dark_Shikari | Not like we'd sell it, since the only buyers would be competitors =p |
| 10:56.16 | Dark_Shikari | imagines x264.com redirecting to divx.com and shudders |
| 10:56.29 | bawr | Eww. |
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| 10:58.03 | bawr | Dark_Shikari: "It's incredibly badly written, inefficient, outdated, and covered with bugs--but it exists!" |
| 10:58.12 | bawr | Hahahaha. I like your ideas page. |
| 10:58.19 | Dark_Shikari | bawr: it was outsourced. |
| 10:58.21 | Dark_Shikari | let's just end it with that. |
| 10:59.05 | bawr | Right. |
| 10:59.40 | Dark_Shikari | And of course, being incompetent, they tried to do it themselves without talking to existing devs or anyone |
| 10:59.52 | Dark_Shikari | sorta like what you'd get if you had a GSOC student do it all himself without ever saying a word to the mentor |
| 10:59.56 | Dark_Shikari | after picking the hardest project from the list. |
| 11:00.04 | bawr | shudders |
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| 11:00.39 | bawr | http://github.com/SFEley/candy/blob/master/LICENSE.markdown |
| 11:00.43 | bawr | That's so cute. |
| 11:01.23 | Dark_Shikari | lol |
| 11:01.58 | danderson | no, it's not |
| 11:02.04 | danderson | it's retarded and damaging to open source |
| 11:02.07 | danderson | please don't make up licenses. |
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| 11:02.21 | danderson | Especially licenses which may or may not violate freedom zero because of stupid wording |
| 11:02.32 | Dark_Shikari | danderson: I think it's clear that it's intended as a joke |
| 11:02.34 | Dark_Shikari | .... hopefully |
| 11:02.53 | bawr | I'm with Dark here. I don't think it's at all serious. |
| 11:03.14 | danderson | Dark_Shikari: unfortunately, it looks like the author at least is serious about it |
| 11:03.21 | danderson | since it's the license text for his project. |
| 11:03.23 | danderson | http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/bmy21/the_dont_be_a_dck_license/c0nkldq |
| 11:03.24 | Dark_Shikari | oh dear |
| 11:03.25 | Dark_Shikari | lol |
| 11:03.39 | danderson | I won't repeat my whole rant, but please read that and remember that making up licenses is baaaaad. |
| 11:04.07 | danderson | use MIT, BSD, Apachev2, GPL, AGPL, in increasing order of restrictiveness, depending on your personal convictions |
| 11:04.16 | danderson | (well, actually, MIT == newBSD, but let's not quibble) |
| 11:04.31 | Dark_Shikari | I use ISC instead of BSD |
| 11:04.35 | Dark_Shikari | Does the same job, except simpler |
| 11:04.47 | Dark_Shikari | (it's what openbsd uses) |
| 11:05.11 | danderson | hmm |
| 11:05.14 | danderson | it looks identical to MIT |
| 11:05.23 | danderson | maybe slightly different wording on the liability disclaimer |
| 11:05.24 | bawr | danderson: Ah, wait. That *is* his actual license... I concur. |
| 11:05.27 | danderson | but yes, that's the general idea. |
| 11:05.30 | Dark_Shikari | it's a 2-clause BSD. yeah. |
| 11:05.40 | Dark_Shikari | it's basically the shortest you can get while staying legally sound |
| 11:05.47 | danderson | yup. |
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| 11:06.22 | danderson | while I technically object to having yet another name for what is essentially MIT/2-clause BSD, the one exception to the small set of licenses I listed above is "use what your ecosystem uses" |
| 11:06.33 | danderson | (ISC for openbsd, the crazy eclipse license for eclipse, etc.) |
| 11:07.04 | |Kev| | What I want is a restrictive license like the GPL, that people can use without the religion. |
| 11:07.13 | bawr | Eclipse has its own license? |
| 11:07.21 | Dark_Shikari | yeah, GPLv3 was a bit annoying in that it tried to force on new things that a lot of people don't want |
| 11:07.30 | Dark_Shikari | i.e. make the dubious patent clause into a very very annoying patent clause |
| 11:07.32 | danderson | but please, think of the children, MIT/Apache2/GPL/AGPL cater to a wide range of personal beliefs regarding free software |
| 11:07.44 | |Kev| | danderson: but not mine, annoyingly. |
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| 11:07.49 | danderson | please don't further muddy the intellectual property waters by inventing new ones or using obscure ones without good reason |
| 11:08.15 | danderson | bawr: yeah, the EPL (Eclipse Public License) |
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| 11:08.37 | danderson | and among other things, it's not GPL compatible. |
| 11:08.42 | danderson | cue massive IP headaches. |
| 11:09.03 | Dark_Shikari | I really hate licenses that aren't GPL compatible >_> |
| 11:09.10 | danderson | |Kev|: what is your belief specifically? |
| 11:09.11 | Dark_Shikari | the apachev2-requiring-gplv3 thing is also a bitch |
| 11:09.25 | danderson | Dark_Shikari: that part is debatable |
| 11:09.33 | |Kev| | danderson: I would like a restrictive license, like the GPL. I don't believe all the things that the GPL requires me to believe, though. |
| 11:09.41 | danderson | the ASF lawyers say Apache2 and GPL2 are compatible |
| 11:09.44 | danderson | the FSF disagrees |
| 11:10.00 | danderson | both agree on Apache2/GPL3 though, which is nice. |
| 11:10.10 | danderson | |Kev|: can you specify said beliefs? |
| 11:10.16 | |Kev| | I'd like a license that restricts closed-source use, allows open-source use, and doesn't make me a hypocrit that I work for a house that sells closed source software. |
| 11:10.23 | Dark_Shikari | danderson: oh dears :/ |
| 11:10.28 | |Kev| | danderson: yes, the GPL requires that I believe that all software must be open source. |
| 11:10.29 | Dark_Shikari | then again, whenever the FSF disagrees with anyone |
| 11:10.34 | |Kev| | (and free) |
| 11:10.35 | Dark_Shikari | it usually means the FSF is wrong |
| 11:10.36 | Chainsaw | I remember moving to GPL-3 because it specifically allows you to say "plugins are not a derived work". |
| 11:10.50 | danderson | |Kev|: meh, you can use GPL without subscribing to that. |
| 11:10.54 | loupgaroublond | |Kev|, no, the license doesn't say all software should be open source |
| 11:11.11 | |Kev| | danderson: the religion is part of the license itself. So I can use it, but I'd be a hypocrit. |
| 11:11.12 | loupgaroublond | it just says your code should remain open source, unless the copyright holder puts it under a difference license |
| 11:11.18 | Chainsaw | I like the GPL licenses myself. I treat the FSF like I treat all extremists. With extreme scepticism. |
| 11:11.23 | |Kev| | What I'd like is to strip the religion out of the GPL, and use that, but the GPL's not Free, so I can't. |
| 11:11.35 | Dark_Shikari | |Kev|: eheheheh, irony isn't it |
| 11:11.38 | Dark_Shikari | the GPL isn't GPL ;) |
| 11:11.47 | bawr | Heh. |
| 11:11.48 | loupgaroublond | |Kev|, do you have a concrete example where there is 'religion' in the GPL? |
| 11:11.52 | Chainsaw | What I don't want is someone else to run off with the code, stick a bad Windows GUI on it and start charging a lot money for it. |
| 11:12.01 | loupgaroublond | because otherwise i would prefer if you didn't troll |
| 11:12.02 | danderson | |Kev|: I think that's something I can live with rather than having to invent a new license and have it fireproofed the way GPL was |
| 11:12.05 | Chainsaw | None of these ISC/BSD licenses seem to protect against that. |
| 11:12.45 | |Kev| | loupgaroublond: yes, read the Preamble. |
| 11:12.54 | Dark_Shikari | Chainsaw: GPL doesn't either |
| 11:13.09 | Chainsaw | Dark_Shikari: Yes it does, because I can then take legal action and have a leg to stand on. |
| 11:13.13 | Dark_Shikari | No it doesn't |
| 11:13.18 | Dark_Shikari | They package your app in a separate executable |
| 11:13.20 | |Kev| | Chainsaw: no it doesn't. |
| 11:13.22 | Dark_Shikari | and distribute the code + license |
| 11:13.27 | Dark_Shikari | and strap a gui around your cli |
| 11:13.32 | Dark_Shikari | Bam, they're legal. |
| 11:13.37 | loupgaroublond | |Kev|, the preamble isn't a legally binding document |
| 11:13.39 | Dark_Shikari | Now, in practice, they don't even bother, but you STILL can't do anything |
| 11:13.45 | Dark_Shikari | because they're based in china |
| 11:13.50 | Dark_Shikari | and if you sue them, they disappear and start up as a new name in two days |
| 11:13.57 | Dark_Shikari | at x264, this is a given |
| 11:13.57 | |Kev| | loupgaroublond: but I can't use the GPL without including the preamble. |
| 11:14.04 | Dark_Shikari | we have thousands if not tens of thousands of programs ripping us off |
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| 11:14.05 | Chainsaw | Dark_Shikari: Unless the code is LGPL licensed, which it isn't... they'll have to open their bad GUI. |
| 11:14.08 | |Kev| | loupgaroublond: thereby claiming that I subscribe to those beliefs. |
| 11:14.08 | Dark_Shikari | and we cannot do shit |
| 11:14.10 | Dark_Shikari | Chainsaw: no they don't |
| 11:14.14 | Dark_Shikari | if it's a separate executable, they don't |
| 11:14.24 | Dark_Shikari | LGPL's exception is for linking. They're not linking. |
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| 11:15.16 | Chainsaw | I'm fairly convinced they'd have to link to use it. I think we're good. |
| 11:15.22 | Dark_Shikari | For your code, maybe |
| 11:15.25 | danderson | |Kev|: while I understand your point, I think that it's not that much of a problem. At least compared to inventing a new license without that preamble. |
| 11:15.25 | Dark_Shikari | for a lot of code, often no |
| 11:15.30 | Dark_Shikari | because the thing is, they can write a GPL _wrapper_ around code. |
| 11:15.33 | Dark_Shikari | and GPL _that_ |
| 11:15.41 | Dark_Shikari | and then call the GPL wrapper via system() |
| 11:15.42 | loupgaroublond | |Kev|, the preamble sums up all the major terms and issues of the GPL license, it doesn't add any beliefs or intents that's not covered by the license itself, so if you have a problem with the beliefs, you also have a problem with the clauses |
| 11:15.48 | danderson | it's unfortunate, yes, but it would be way more unfortunate to have yet another license written by someone who is not an expert in intellectual property law |
| 11:16.32 | |Kev| | danderson: that's right, which is why I'll probably GPL the project I'm on at the moment. I'll also probably dual-license it, though, and as my boss correctly asserts, "Dual-licensing is dual-standards" |
| 11:16.59 | |Kev| | (Even though RMS, interestingly, has no problems with dual-licenses) |
| 11:18.03 | danderson | |Kev|: dual license with what? |
| 11:18.19 | |Kev| | something commercial. |
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| 11:18.57 | danderson | ah, gotcha, something similar to mysql (I think?), "get it for free if you share, or pay us and we'll let you keep your toys" ? |
| 11:19.04 | |Kev| | Yes. |
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| 11:19.53 | danderson | yup, sounds about right. Although I would point out that this does make you subscribe slightly to the FSF's belief, since you're effectively enacting a tax on proprietary code ;) |
| 11:20.02 | |Kev| | Yes. |
| 11:20.14 | Dark_Shikari | danderson: that's our plan as well ;) |
| 11:20.20 | Dark_Shikari | or, actually |
| 11:20.22 | Dark_Shikari | what you're saying is |
| 11:20.30 | Dark_Shikari | we are charging you for the permission to use our code in non-free software |
| 11:20.32 | kai | Dark_Shikari: a bit late to the party, but the patent clauses in GPLv3 are useful for some people :) |
| 11:20.43 | Dark_Shikari | kai: yeah, like making all software licensed under GPLv3 illegal |
| 11:20.56 | Dark_Shikari | because 1) all software violates patents 2) GPLv3 prohibits software from violating patents |
| 11:21.12 | Dark_Shikari | of course, whether said ridiculously-general patents would hold up in court is another matter |
| 11:21.46 | thebolt | still costs money to show that they don't.. |
| 11:21.50 | Dark_Shikari | of course. |
| 11:22.04 | danderson | Dark_Shikari: right, in a sense that means that you are taxing proprietary code :) |
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| 11:22.24 | Dark_Shikari | danderson: or giving a discount to free code ;) |
| 11:22.25 | kai | Dark_Shikari: that's not what a lot of lawyers think, though |
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| 11:22.32 | danderson | I'm not complaining, it's a fair deal imho. I just like the idea of rewarding altruism by taxing the opposite behavior :) |
| 11:22.34 | Dark_Shikari | kai: here's what I recall the SFLC saying |
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| 11:22.54 | Dark_Shikari | 1) GPLv2 says that if you distribute an application covered by patent X, and you control patent X, you must give the rights to use patent X with the application. |
| 11:23.00 | Dark_Shikari | It does not say anything about patent Y that you don't own. |
| 11:23.02 | |Kev| | danderson: I also like the thought of closed source houses paying me to essentially improve open source code. |
| 11:23.15 | Dark_Shikari | 2) GPLv3 says that you have to give the rights to ALL patents covering the application |
| 11:23.19 | Dark_Shikari | and if you can't |
| 11:23.19 | Dark_Shikari | you can't distribute it |
| 11:23.22 | Dark_Shikari | Even if you don't own said patents. |
| 11:23.28 | Dark_Shikari | not 100% sure on the gplv3 bit |
| 11:23.44 | Dark_Shikari | |Kev|: This, this, and this. |
| 11:23.48 | kai | Dark_Shikari: I'd be very surprised if the SFLC thinks the GPLv3 isn't legally sound |
| 11:24.03 | Dark_Shikari | ok, so 1) I have literally from the SFLC, 2) not in such literal terms |
| 11:24.06 | kai | they wrote it, and a lot of company lawyers at open source companies looked at it |
| 11:24.07 | Dark_Shikari | so as I said, don't trust 2) as much |
| 11:24.14 | Dark_Shikari | but what I do know is: |
| 11:24.20 | Dark_Shikari | 1) Stallman believes that 2) applies to the GPLv2, because he is insane |
| 11:24.35 | Dark_Shikari | 2) Stallman changed GPLv3 to say what he thought the GPLv2 said, in more explicit terms. |
| 11:24.36 | bawr | |Kev|: What Dark said. :) |
| 11:24.44 | kai | no |
| 11:24.52 | Dark_Shikari | i.e. remove alternate interpretations |
| 11:24.53 | kai | I disagree there |
| 11:25.01 | Dark_Shikari | on what I noted in 2)? |
| 11:25.14 | kai | yes |
| 11:25.24 | Dark_Shikari | what would you describe it as then? |
| 11:25.39 | kai | the FSF had many requests from projects who wanted to have a license that makes the patent stance clear |
| 11:26.00 | Dark_Shikari | ah. |
| 11:26.13 | Dark_Shikari | I recall many companies that I've worked with have been very worried about gplv3 |
| 11:26.13 | kai | GPLv2 forcing you to give a license to a patent you control is one of many interpretations |
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| 11:26.19 | Dark_Shikari | in particular due to the patent issue |
| 11:26.23 | kai | right |
| 11:26.45 | kai | they can thank microsoft and novell for the harsh wording ;) |
| 11:26.48 | danderson | the question is also whether this is a problem in practice |
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| 11:27.22 | danderson | you're much more likely to be sued for patent infringement by a patent troll for a specific patent, than to be sued on the technicality that you didn't have the rights to distribute |
| 11:27.29 | kai | basically gplv3 patches sleazy workarounds like done in the microsoft-novell patent deal |
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| 11:28.48 | Dark_Shikari | danderson: of course |
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| 11:31.59 | kai | Dark_Shikari: but of course I'm probably biased as a member of a project that switched to gplv3 the day it was released |
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| 11:32.21 | Dark_Shikari | well here's another really bitchy aspect of gplv3 |
| 11:32.31 | Dark_Shikari | one project that was actually proposed and nearly funded at one point |
| 11:32.43 | Dark_Shikari | port a portion of x264 onto a Spartan III FPGA |
| 11:32.54 | Dark_Shikari | GPLv3 would prohibit this under the anti-tivo clause. |
| 11:33.05 | Dark_Shikari | because there is no open source way to load software onto the spartan III |
| 11:33.13 | Dark_Shikari | you have to buy their dev kit + software |
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| 11:33.26 | Dark_Shikari | So it would be illegal to distribute FPGAs with x264 loaded on them. |
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| 11:36.34 | thebolt | Dark_Shikari: but don't you see how that makes the world a better place, giving more innovation and progress! ;-) |
| 11:37.04 | Dark_Shikari | no no, everyone knows that the gpl is an evil communist inhibitor to progress |
| 11:37.10 | Dark_Shikari | an enemy of the glorious capitalist master race |
| 11:37.17 | loupgaroublond | Dark_Shikari, the expectation is that you petition the makers of the spartan III to open their bits, or to write your own open source loader |
| 11:37.32 | Dark_Shikari | loupgaroublond: and in that world, we have a pony. |
| 11:38.44 | thebolt | loupgaroublond: why don't you go ask intel to give out their CPU CAD drawings as well ;) |
| 11:39.29 | loupgaroublond | thebolt, the unicorn in my backyard isn't puking rainbows yet, otherwise i would ;) |
| 11:39.44 | thebolt | loupgaroublond: would probably be as easy as what you suggested ;) |
| 11:40.03 | Dark_Shikari | lol |
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| 11:42.04 | kai | Dark_Shikari: look at this from the other side, though |
| 11:42.23 | kai | Dark_Shikari: there's a lot of OEMs ditributing hopelessly outdated samba versions |
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| 11:42.32 | kai | with no way to fix them |
| 11:42.36 | Dark_Shikari | heh |
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| 11:42.57 | kai | with the anti-tivo clause, we actually help our customers |
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| 11:43.04 | kai | er s/customers/users |
| 11:43.11 | Dark_Shikari | well the real question is whether it means the companies will open up... |
| 11:43.11 | kai | but you get the point |
| 11:43.14 | Dark_Shikari | or use something else. |
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| 11:43.34 | kai | Dark_Shikari: there's not much else if your profit margin is around 2% |
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| 11:43.46 | Dark_Shikari | you don't fully understand corporate leadership |
| 11:43.51 | Dark_Shikari | to them, "opening up" is often a huge loss |
| 11:44.04 | Dark_Shikari | on their books, they interpret it as "losing" all the time they spent developing their code |
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| 11:44.18 | kai | Dark_Shikari: right. our code, you mean |
| 11:44.25 | Dark_Shikari | I meant opening the whole platform |
| 11:44.57 | kai | seems like we're reading the gplv3 differently |
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| 11:45.20 | Dark_Shikari | the thing is, in order for it to not be tivoized |
| 11:45.28 | Dark_Shikari | they have to open a way to access and modify software on their device |
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| 11:45.32 | Dark_Shikari | which involves opening some of their code |
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| 11:49.49 | sfb | Good morning. |
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| 11:59.57 | kai | Dark_Shikari: we have a lot of OEMs who are playing nice, actually |
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| 12:00.56 | exDM69 | not late for applications yet |
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| 12:07.06 | sfb | exDM69: No, it's not too late. |
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| 12:08.53 | exDM69 | sfb: yep, I'll start working on some applications now |
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| 12:50.30 | svuorela | hi smart people. how do I change the 'link id' in the gsoc app ? |
| 12:50.42 | danderson | you don't, iirc. |
| 12:50.50 | danderson | It's the primary key for the content |
| 12:51.05 | svuorela | what is it used for ? |
| 12:51.37 | danderson | It's the primary key for the content. It's the URL fragment for that content. |
| 12:51.46 | svuorela | (I filled it with some garbage last year, and would like to have some less garbage in it this year) |
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| 12:53.02 | danderson | maybe ask on #melange |
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| 12:53.41 | svuorela | danderson: how do I close my account and create a new, then ? |
| 12:54.05 | danderson | svuorela: I said ask on #melange |
| 12:54.17 | danderson | they should be able to assist you. |
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| 13:01.38 | velory | Hi, after i submit my proposal, should i make my proposal public ?? It says others can see your proposal, Who is others? |
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| 13:02.59 | Wolf_OSGeo | would also like to know who others is |
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| 13:08.04 | erenn | hello all |
| 13:08.41 | kai | velory: people signed into socghop who are not your mentors |
| 13:10.44 | velory | kai: so people who is not from my proposing organization |
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| 13:17.55 | kai | velory: right |
| 13:18.22 | kai | velory: or people from the organization you apply to that are not signed up as mentors |
| 13:18.58 | velory | kai: students can see other proposals? or should they be a mentor to see public proposals? |
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| 13:30.04 | Raks437 | !timeline |
| 13:30.04 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline |
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| 13:38.57 | jj__ | hi Jaideep, where you from |
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| 13:40.25 | jaideep__ | I am from India |
| 13:40.39 | rajat | finally managed to setup an irc bouncer. *rejoices* |
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| 13:42.20 | maddy01 | can anyone gice a little guide o gsoc |
| 13:42.55 | fatos | gsoc is the coolest thing ever... ! |
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| 13:43.07 | jj__ | what country are you from maddy01? |
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| 13:50.46 | fabiosl | !countdown |
| 13:50.46 | socinfo | "countdown" is The time left for submitting a student project proposal: http://tinyurl.com/gsoc2010-student-deadline |
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| 13:58.58 | evocallaghan | G'Day, What's the standard URL format as a public link to my GSoC Student 'Profile' ? |
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| 14:03.09 | evocallaghan | i.e. http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/userguide#depth_doctypes |
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| 14:13.56 | naren | evening |
| 14:14.06 | xu | hello |
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| 14:29.30 | smtms | evocallaghan, your question is about the Melange web app; it may be better answered in #melange |
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| 15:00.57 | safal_soni | skbohra:hi can u tell me that the organisation to which if we have submitted any proposal,then when can it give us feedback regarding our proposal? |
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| 15:02.05 | cygal | safal_soni: ask for feedback if you did not receive any |
| 15:02.48 | safal_soni | cygal:from whom |
| 15:03.12 | erenn | you guys know any mentor is able to see the counts of my proposals ? |
| 15:03.36 | cygal | I'm sure your organization has a mailing list, irc channel, or another way for you to communicate with them |
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| 15:57.41 | mmadia | !countdown |
| 15:57.42 | socinfo | "countdown" is The time left for submitting a student project proposal: http://tinyurl.com/gsoc2010-student-deadline |
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| 16:03.49 | dreimark | !next |
| 16:03.49 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are open. Apply now at http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/student/apply/google/gsoc2010 ! Deadline is April 9: 12 noon PDT / 19:00 UTC. |
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| 16:07.58 | kimelto | morning! |
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| 16:09.19 | piyushmishra | mornin |
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| 16:10.35 | magsol | afternoon :) |
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| 16:11.14 | piyushmishra | btw its night here |
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| 16:11.15 | piyushmishra | :P |
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| 16:12.46 | ksinkar | night |
| 16:12.56 | ksinkar | i agree |
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| 16:36.37 | monish | Hello everyone.. I'm Monish here.. Can anyone suggest me any C++ project? |
| 16:36.53 | danderson | !orgs |
| 16:36.54 | socinfo | "orgs" is The list of accepted mentoring organizations is here: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
| 16:36.57 | danderson | !mentors |
| 16:36.57 | socinfo | Error: "mentors" is not a valid command. |
| 16:37.01 | danderson | grah, not again. |
| 16:37.10 | magsol | lol |
| 16:37.18 | danderson | monish: look at the org list. Most have language tags. |
| 16:37.36 | maheshs | Am I late to submit a proposal? |
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| 16:37.37 | Wolf_OSGeo | monish: you can even search for C++ among the tags |
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| 16:37.43 | mmadia | !countdown |
| 16:37.43 | socinfo | "countdown" is The time left for submitting a student project proposal: http://tinyurl.com/gsoc2010-student-deadline |
| 16:37.49 | Wolf_OSGeo | maheshs: not yet, but almost ;) |
| 16:37.55 | maheshs | :( |
| 16:38.00 | monish | yup.. i have already done that... |
| 16:38.58 | monish | i am looking forward to Boost Libraries but in that too, it's not a easy task to finalize tasks as a project.. |
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| 16:41.09 | maheshs | is it case that early apps get more rank? |
| 16:41.13 | danderson | no. |
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| 16:43.54 | Wolf_OSGeo | danderson: BTW thanks for the hint about Primer. It was great :D |
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| 16:44.41 | danderson | Wolf_OSGeo: screws with your brain pretty fiercely, eh? |
| 16:44.56 | Wolf_OSGeo | danderson: that it does, but in a good way :) |
| 16:45.01 | danderson | indeed. |
| 16:45.01 | zooko | Folks: the #tahoe-lafs project has more students applying that it has mentors. |
| 16:45.13 | zooko | So if any other projects want more students, let me know and maybe I can direct some of our students to also apply to your project. |
| 16:45.16 | zooko | Or maybe we could share students. |
| 16:45.25 | danderson | that sounds like an awesome problem to have. |
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| 16:49.31 | Wolf_OSGeo | zooko hmm it might be interesting to see how taho-LAFS could be integrated to geodata... We'd have versioned GIS which would be pretty awsome. Perhaps we should start talking so we can start working together next year ;) |
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| 16:54.40 | zooko | Wolf_OSGeo: neat! Yeah, I think you're exactly right about next year. :-) |
| 16:54.49 | zooko | Also coincidentally my Day Job is at http://simplegeo.com |
| 16:54.57 | zooko | Wolf_OSGeo: please join #tahoe-lafs if you like. |
| 16:56.03 | zooko | /whois Wolf_OSGeo |
| 16:56.03 | zooko | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:56.05 | zooko | oops |
| 16:56.17 | zooko | Wolf_OSGeo: what IRC channel is your project on? |
| 16:56.22 | thebolt | zooko: pretty much all projects have more students applying than mentors ;) |
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| 16:56.29 | Wolf_OSGeo | zooko freenode |
| 16:56.36 | thebolt | hi Wolf_OSGeo |
| 16:56.42 | Wolf_OSGeo | hi thebolt |
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| 16:56.59 | Wolf_OSGeo | I'm here on another accout to display OSGeo prominently :P |
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| 17:00.43 | Wolf_OSGeo | thebolt: I think we still have more mentors than students, but the tide is coming. also so far all out proposals have been top-notch |
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| 17:02.24 | thebolt | Wolf_OSGeo: well, i haven't yet heard of any project that didn't have enough students by end of application period (but, i have heard of ones not having enough high quality ones..) |
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| 17:02.48 | Wolf_OSGeo | thebolt: :) |
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| 17:03.21 | thebolt | so how are mr bergenheim today? |
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| 17:04.17 | Wolf_OSGeo | Mr Bergenheim is just fine, thanks. Had a nice easy 10-15:30 workday :P |
| 17:04.28 | thebolt | :P |
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| 17:05.29 | idrissdev_dz | is a new developer has a chance to participate |
| 17:05.31 | idrissdev_dz | ? |
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| 17:06.01 | jkwood | In? |
| 17:06.14 | Wolf_OSGeo | depends on the organisation |
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| 17:07.35 | sfb | idrissdev_dz: I would entertain an entry level developer so long as the idea they proposed was reasonable and was worth doing. |
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| 17:10.41 | dennda | !timeline |
| 17:10.41 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline |
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| 17:20.41 | _Samo | once the application time for students is finished, as a organisation administrator, where I can learn what to do next, like scoring applications and so on |
| 17:20.42 | |Kev| | Read the user guide. |
| 17:20.42 | |Kev| | I think that between that and the FAQ it should cover stuff. |
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| 17:20.59 | TheLorax | have students been able to get much feedback on applications from their project mentors? |
| 17:21.10 | |Kev| | TheLorax: prospective mentors. |
| 17:21.18 | TheLorax | |Kev|, yes |
| 17:21.18 | |Kev| | Also: yes, students are getting feedback. |
| 17:21.31 | TheLorax | maybe I'm asking the wrong questions then |
| 17:22.01 | TheLorax | are valid questions "what widget toolkit woudl you prefer" or how bad is it undo some previous gsoc work? |
| 17:23.14 | TheLorax | so far all I've experienced is complete silence from every orangization. |
| 17:23.32 | |Kev| | I wonder about the forum you're asking in, then. |
| 17:23.41 | TheLorax | mailing lists, irc |
| 17:23.42 | |Kev| | It seems unusual that orgs wouldn't respond. |
| 17:23.45 | TheLorax | and I idle for days |
| 17:24.11 | |Kev| | I can't speak for other orgs, of course, but all students that've asked us questions have had answers, afaik. |
| 17:24.21 | *** join/#gsoc idrissdev (~idrissdev@41.96.124.250) |
| 17:24.21 | Wolf_OSGeo | same for us |
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| 17:24.53 | Wolf_OSGeo | the students this hear have been very active in reaching out to us befire submitting a proposal |
| 17:25.03 | Wolf_OSGeo | I wonder if someone hase trained them? |
| 17:25.26 | TheLorax | to be fair, there are responses to questions that are obvious, like how to apply, and who the mentors are |
| 17:25.32 | TheLorax | but nothing in terms of project specifics. |
| 17:26.11 | Wolf_OSGeo | they might still be busy reading the possibly hundreds of applications |
| 17:26.33 | TheLorax | hundreds really? I didn't think there were so many |
| 17:27.14 | Catfish_Man | depends on the organization |
| 17:27.18 | _Samo | we held meetings almost every evening with students in our IRC room, they ask for speficis mostly there |
| 17:27.29 | Catfish_Man | generally most of them are easily discardable though |
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| 17:27.46 | Wolf_OSGeo | Catfish_Man: can we get the bot to answer these questions? |
| 17:27.48 | magsol | oh snap! |
| 17:27.51 | bawr | In my limited experience, orgs seem pretty prompt and eager to answer. |
| 17:28.03 | bawr | Well, as long as the answers aren't in their FAQ. ;) |
| 17:28.04 | |Kev| | We've had 7 applications so far, only one is rubbish. |
| 17:28.18 | bawr | Sounds pretty good. |
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| 17:39.13 | mdc | I suspect we will get a flurry of proposals near the deadline. |
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| 17:40.07 | mdc | We have found it indicative of student initiative not to wait until the last moment to send in a proposal. |
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| 17:40.59 | mdc | It is also the case the the closer to the deadline people wait the more likely a server or application glitch could cause them to miss the deadline. |
| 17:41.24 | mdc | (gentle suggestions for those who might be interested) |
| 17:42.33 | Gangadhar | I got an error in building MSVC 2008 \src\af\gr\win\gr_Win32Graphics.cpp(1439) : error C3861: 'setExposePending': identifier not found anyone can help |
| 17:42.53 | Gangadhar | ?? |
| 17:43.37 | sfb | Wrong channel. (= |
| 17:43.42 | jkwood | Perhaps the particular project you're trying to build has an irc channel? |
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| 17:45.55 | vyas021 | hi everyone! |
| 17:46.35 | magsol | hi :) |
| 17:46.47 | vyas021 | any mentor here from Beagleboard ? |
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| 17:47.15 | Wolf_OSGeo | !anyone |
| 17:47.15 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
| 17:47.32 | Wolf_OSGeo | loves that bot <3 |
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| 17:48.13 | vyas021 | magsol: which organisation you belong to ? |
| 17:48.16 | vyas021 | :) |
| 17:48.30 | magsol | i'm a prospective student, actually :) |
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| 17:49.02 | vyas021 | magsol: for which org? |
| 17:49.17 | magsol | haha i don't know yet, application period is still open |
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| 17:49.43 | vyas021 | magsol: great |
| 17:49.46 | vyas021 | :D |
| 17:49.56 | jkwood | You should have already gottten in contact with some mentoring organizations by now, if you haven't. |
| 17:50.11 | magsol | applied to 3, been speaking at fairly good length with 2 |
| 17:50.43 | jkwood | Ah, I misunderstood then. So you're an applicant to 3 organizations, then. |
| 17:51.04 | magsol | yep! |
| 17:51.09 | magsol | hopefully one will take me :) |
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| 17:53.49 | sfb | If magsol is undecided is it immoral of me to try and persuade him to my project here? |
| 17:53.52 | sfb | haha |
| 17:53.55 | sfb | Oh |
| 17:53.56 | sfb | I see. |
| 17:54.04 | sfb | I have to finish reading the scrollback. |
| 17:54.45 | Wolf_OSGeo | sfb: IMO no |
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| 18:01.34 | heidi_ | hiya. mentor here - students interested in ATutor projects can join us in #atutor on irc.oftc.net |
| 18:01.50 | heidi_ | thanks |
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| 18:28.39 | vyas021 | Beagleboard mentor? |
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| 18:28.59 | Wolf_OSGeo | !anyone |
| 18:29.00 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
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| 18:31.26 | SuNk8 | Hello World! |
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| 18:32.43 | SuNk8 | any live humans here? |
| 18:32.48 | Catfish_Man | a few |
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| 18:32.54 | SuNk8 | nice |
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| 18:33.11 | smtms | SuNk8, most are undead |
| 18:33.25 | SuNk8 | I have some really good ideas for GSoC, but no prior experience in programming. |
| 18:33.49 | dhaun | sounds like a dangerous mix :P |
| 18:33.59 | SuNk8 | What do the fellow humans (and Undead) suggest? |
| 18:34.18 | int3 | !humans |
| 18:34.18 | socinfo | Error: "humans" is not a valid command. |
| 18:34.20 | int3 | "humans" is Instead of looking for humans here, you will likely get much better results by staking out a graveyard at night. |
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| 18:34.35 | SuNk8 | Hmm |
| 18:34.36 | skbohra | !countdown |
| 18:34.37 | socinfo | "countdown" is The time left for submitting a student project proposal: http://tinyurl.com/gsoc2010-student-deadline |
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| 18:35.00 | dhaun | SuNk8: really no programming experience at all? |
| 18:35.25 | SuNk8 | just a bit of c and c++ |
| 18:35.35 | SuNk8 | can do a little file-handling |
| 18:35.45 | SuNk8 | but i did it all on dos 6.22 |
| 18:35.57 | int3 | oO |
| 18:36.02 | bawr | Transitioning might be tricky, then. |
| 18:36.02 | SuNk8 | just downloading Anjuta |
| 18:36.11 | SuNk8 | i know |
| 18:36.16 | rwatson | SuNk8: while I don't want to discourage you, gsoc is not so much about learning to program as about programming, so you might want to consider brushing up and participating next year? |
| 18:36.45 | SuNk8 | ya, sounds like a nice idea rwatson. |
| 18:36.49 | rwatson | SuNk8: while in principle you could do a lot of brushing up between now and the start of the actual program, there's not much time to brush up before writing a proposal, which may affect your credibility as an applicant |
| 18:37.05 | SuNk8 | so, i'll probably put my ideas on brainstorm |
| 18:37.15 | rwatson | SuNk8: and in the past google has specifically discouraged non-programming projects, such as documentation work, etc. |
| 18:37.31 | SuNk8 | hmm... |
| 18:38.11 | SuNk8 | i'm just looking at it as a good platform |
| 18:38.24 | SuNk8 | to get sumthing done for ubuntu |
| 18:38.44 | |Kev| | You don't need gsoc to contribute to OSS :) |
| 18:38.57 | SuNk8 | ya, rite |
| 18:39.13 | dhaun | SuNk8: in that case, start looking for small tasks for Ubuntu and to them until next year - that'll help you a lot |
| 18:39.20 | rwatson | SuNk8: contributing to open source is a good way to brush up on programming skills |
| 18:39.26 | rwatson | dhaun: yeah, very much so. |
| 18:39.38 | SuNk8 | I just want to send the proposals, not be a student/mentor |
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| 18:39.56 | SuNk8 | as in ideas |
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| 18:40.12 | rwatson | SuNk8: sounds like you're in a good position to help students who might be interested in finding and discussing ideas to propose |
| 18:40.32 | SuNk8 | yup, that's what i have in mind |
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| 18:41.35 | SuNk8 | so where do i discuss them? |
| 18:41.40 | SuNk8 | my ideas? |
| 18:41.47 | Wolf_OSGeo | here or the studen's list? |
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| 18:48.07 | ssbr | Am I not allowed to do GSoC without a phone? |
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| 18:48.36 | ssbr | (it won't let me begin the application process because I cannot fill in the phone field) |
| 18:48.38 | thiago_home | why are you asking? |
| 18:49.02 | magsol | i don't think the GSoC app has a field for a phone number... |
| 18:49.14 | ssbr | It does on http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/student/apply/google/gsoc2010 |
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| 18:49.25 | SuNk8 | it does, although i think its optional |
| 18:49.31 | ssbr | It's required. |
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| 18:49.40 | j0daz | yup, required |
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| 18:50.00 | SuNk8 | hm what format are u using? |
| 18:50.07 | magsol | now i'm confused...how have i submitted an app that didn't contain my phone number? |
| 18:50.20 | ssbr | I don't have a phone number by which I can be contacted. |
| 18:50.28 | ssbr | Because I do not own a phone. |
| 18:50.34 | j0daz | put a frinds number there maby? |
| 18:50.39 | magsol | hahaha |
| 18:51.08 | rwatson | ssbr: I'd just put 0's and a note in the form somewhere that you don't have a phone hence no phone number |
| 18:51.21 | int3 | does google plan to have gsoc again next year? |
| 18:51.49 | dhaun | the standard response is: Google doesn't pre-announce things |
| 18:51.51 | Wolf_OSGeo | int3: it's unknown, but I hope and believe they will |
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| 18:51.59 | jkwood | int3: They have for the past few years, I don't see why they wouldn't. |
| 18:52.15 | jkwood | Of course, 've been surprised before. |
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| 18:52.39 | int3 | okay cool. I only discovered it late this year and I'm afraid I didn't prepare as much as I'd have liked |
| 18:52.51 | ssbr | rwatson: done, thanks |
| 18:52.52 | int3 | definitely will be gunning for it next year if it happens again |
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| 19:08.29 | moza | Good evening |
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| 19:13.05 | Crix | is there a way to view gsoc student applications from the main site? |
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| 19:14.03 | dho | from socghop.appspot.com, login and click "View all Student Proposals" for the organization you're mentoring / administrating? |
| 19:14.36 | Crix | i meant as a student, actually |
| 19:15.41 | dho | I don't think you can see other students' proposals |
| 19:15.58 | Crix | ok, i didn't think so |
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| 19:16.37 | dhaun | students can make their proposals public, but you need to know the URL - there's no public list |
| 19:18.59 | Crix | thanks! |
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| 19:23.44 | dho | np :) |
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| 19:26.52 | moza | I had a question about PhD students and applications. |
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| 19:28.18 | moza | As a PhD student here, people are both employees and students. Is it acceptable to apply for GSOC? Is it something to check with my university because they pay me already for this time? Should the money go to them for this period? |
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| 19:31.24 | dhaun | moza: I guess it's more a question of time, i.e. do you have the time for a mostly full-time job (which GSoC is supposed to be)? |
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| 19:33.34 | moza | dhaun, if i find a project that is related to my research, i can include it in my job, and work on it a lot. |
| 19:33.37 | rwatson | moza: most phd students I've talked to who have participated in the program have treated it as a summer internship |
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| 19:33.44 | rwatson | moza: and policies vary there by university |
| 19:33.44 | rwatson | mo |
| 19:33.45 | rwatson | |
| 19:33.45 | rwatson | |
| 19:33.45 | moza | But my PhD is already full time. |
| 19:33.45 | rwatson | |
| 19:33.46 | rwatson | |
| 19:33.46 | rwatson | moz |
| 19:33.50 | dho | whoops |
| 19:33.52 | rwatson | kicks colloquy |
| 19:33.59 | dho | waves at rwatson |
| 19:34.01 | moza | ok rwatson :) |
| 19:34.15 | rwatson | moza: most CS programs have a model for handling internships and you should see what your university's approach is |
| 19:34.21 | Kosma | will I be able to edit my proposal once I submit it? |
| 19:34.25 | dho | yes |
| 19:34.27 | rwatson | moza: typical answers are things like "go for it, keep the money, work on it 3/4 time" |
| 19:34.33 | ihalip | Kosma: yes |
| 19:34.40 | rwatson | moza: or "file some paperwork to intermit for the summer" |
| 19:34.45 | moza | ok, i'll consider that rwatson, but i probably have to ask them. |
| 19:35.29 | Kosma | so it's not actually visible to anyone except me until the submission deadline? |
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| 19:35.46 | rwatson | moza: usually the concern of phd programs will be intellectual property: phd students sometimes run into trouble interning with companies because the companies then make an IP claim on work that is related to their phd |
| 19:36.05 | dhaun | Kosma: no, it's immediatly visible to the mentor org |
| 19:36.10 | rwatson | moza: at least in the systems area, doing an internship or on-site visit with a company during a phd is pretty standard practice, and I think treating gsoc in a similar manner would be appropriate |
| 19:36.19 | rwatson | moza: (subject to phd supervisor/advisor approving) |
| 19:36.22 | Kosma | dhaun: okay, thanks |
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| 19:36.26 | dhaun | Kosma: if you don't want that, create a document in Melange |
| 19:36.39 | dhaun | but don't forget to submit it then :) |
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| 19:37.44 | Kosma | I guess I'll just stick to a plain old text editor |
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| 19:39.11 | doomer | an1 thr? |
| 19:39.39 | sfb | Nope, no one here. |
| 19:39.49 | ihalip | i'm actually just passing by |
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| 19:40.38 | sfb | Kosma: I've worked with students in Google Wave. I find that helpful to work with them to refine their proposal before they submit it. |
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| 19:41.31 | Kosma | sfb: well, maybe google docs |
| 19:41.37 | Kosma | I'm old-fashioned ;-) |
| 19:42.12 | sfb | Which ever tool works best for you. |
| 19:42.22 | sfb | I used to use Etherpad but now they're shutting it down. |
| 19:42.29 | sfb | And before that I used Google Notebook. |
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| 19:56.56 | AshishG | it's quite out here tonight :) |
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| 20:09.56 | robbyoconnor | !next |
| 20:09.56 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are open. Apply now at http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/student/apply/google/gsoc2010 ! Deadline is April 9: 12 noon PDT / 19:00 UTC. |
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| 20:16.38 | Manca | hey there |
| 20:17.37 | x` | hey Manca |
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| 20:17.46 | Manca | how's going guys? |
| 20:18.36 | thebolt | still alive, always counts for something ,) |
| 20:18.49 | dottedmag | just stumbled upon http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/Textbook_Release_0.8 - looks like a nice introductory guide for to-be-students. |
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| 20:19.28 | x` | pretty tired, but yeah, alive with basic life support operating without significant bugs |
| 20:19.31 | x` | how about you? |
| 20:19.50 | Manca | i just finished with the class |
| 20:20.03 | Manca | still looking into some ideas for the project... |
| 20:20.14 | Manca | I need to get ahold with nmap team |
| 20:21.12 | Manca | did u submit your proposal x? |
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| 20:22.35 | x` | yeah, submitted 3 days ago, ... now i reflected on it a bit an tomorrow is a big day of connecting all the dots and polishing it up |
| 20:22.48 | x` | did you talk to Mitar yesterday? |
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| 20:40.11 | Manca | yeah, just a little.. didn't have a chance to get into details. |
| 20:40.18 | Manca | which organization u applied with x? |
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| 20:51.26 | kennygao | !next |
| 20:51.27 | socinfo | "next" is Student applications are open. Apply now at http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/student/apply/google/gsoc2010 ! Deadline is April 9: 12 noon PDT / 19:00 UTC. |
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| 20:53.10 | caden | is there an easy way for me to send a URL pointing to my proposal in progress to someone at the org i'm communicating with? |
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| 20:56.11 | _ke | even though i set the mentors-list to digest i still get the digest AND additionally each single message. does anybody have a clue why that is? |
| 20:56.15 | dhaun | caden: if it's in Melange, simply copy it from the URL bar of your browser |
| 20:56.16 | |Kev| | caden: easiest way is to submit it with a note at the top saying you're sharing it for preview, it's not done. |
| 20:56.38 | |Kev| | caden: then just point them at the URL. |
| 20:56.45 | caden | ahh thank you dhaun and Kev |
| 20:56.59 | caden | do i have to mark it as public? they are members of the organization on the proposal |
| 20:57.13 | dhaun | no |
| 20:57.16 | |Kev| | No, then. |
| 20:57.22 | caden | cool thanks |
| 20:57.43 | |Kev| | yw |
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| 20:58.58 | caden | and if i don't edit it again, is it as good as submitted or do i have to come back and hit a magic submit button somewhere? |
| 21:00.32 | dhaun | !edit |
| 21:00.33 | socinfo | "edit" is You can submit your application early and edit it up until the deadline (April 9). Once the deadline passes, you cannot edit it. Instead, leave comments. |
| 21:00.52 | dhaun | ^^^ does that answer your question? |
| 21:01.11 | caden | well kind of, it would make me feel better if it said "and it is submitted" |
| 21:01.32 | caden | just to have the reassurance that it is submitted and i didn't miss something |
| 21:01.43 | dhaun | it stays submitted, unless you explicitly retract it |
| 21:01.51 | caden | cool thank you |
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| 21:04.24 | gc_ | can someone tell me abot gsoc 2010 |
| 21:04.41 | Jeff_S | gc_: what would you like to know? Have you looked at the website? |
| 21:04.41 | *** join/#gsoc vgvgf (~vgvgf@190.31.71.91) |
| 21:04.44 | Dark_Shikari | !gsoc |
| 21:04.44 | socinfo | "gsoc" is gsoc refers to the Google Summer of Code, not Generic Savoire-faire on Open-source Conundrums. |
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| 21:05.35 | gc_ | socinfo:I need help regarding selection criteria , can u help me ? |
| 21:06.08 | Jeff_S | gc_: socinfo is a bot :) |
| 21:06.13 | Jeff_S | gc_: what do you want to know? |
| 21:06.16 | ebo | socinfo: to followup along the lines of your answer to dhaun's question, we are allowed to make comments to our proposal after the deadline (but of course not edit it)? |
| 21:06.17 | socinfo | Error: "to" is not a valid command. |
| 21:06.33 | Jeff_S | lol, see |
| 21:06.35 | Kosma | haha |
| 21:06.36 | ebo | LOL! |
| 21:06.50 | ebo | DoH! |
| 21:07.00 | Jeff_S | ebo: I believe that is correct |
| 21:07.35 | ebo | Jeff_S: thanks 8-S Boy I feel dumb... |
| 21:07.44 | Jeff_S | ebo: no problem |
| 21:07.59 | gc_ | I have basic knowledge of programming languages like c and c++ , but the mentor I want to choose has conditions that the student must know c++ language , so will it be fine with my basic knowledge of the language |
| 21:08.16 | smtms | gc_, ask that mentor. he will know |
| 21:08.26 | Jeff_S | gc_: that really depends on the mentor organization and the project in question |
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| 21:09.07 | Jeff_S | gc_: the mentor organizations are who choose which students to accept, it's not done at a larger (organizational) level |
| 21:09.16 | jkwood | In general, knowing the concepts behind the programming languages are more important than knowing the languages themselves. |
| 21:09.38 | gc_ | jeff_s: what will the mentor look for in an application |
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| 21:09.51 | Jeff_S | gc_: that also depends on the mentor/org in question |
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| 21:10.41 | jkwood | What I look for in an applicant may be differnt than what the RTEMS people look for - you'd have to ask the mentoring organization you're interested in. |
| 21:11.12 | gc_ | jeff_s: I mean what distinct feature an application should have in order to get selected ? , generally |
| 21:11.38 | jkwood | Also, we know thatt you are students, so we expect you to have questions - never be afraid to look silly in front of your chosen organization. |
| 21:11.43 | Wolf_OSGeo | it needs to be well written, easy to follow and have a good idea |
| 21:11.53 | Jeff_S | gc_: peronally, I look for a motiviated student that shows that they've done a good deal of research on their own and present a clear outline with well defined milestones, target dates, etc. |
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| 21:12.46 | Garuma | !timeline |
| 21:12.46 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline |
| 21:14.26 | gc_ | jeff_s:I have one more problem , I have exams till mid june , so will the mentor reject my application if I mention that my vacations willl start from mid june |
| 21:15.02 | Jeff_S | gc_: that is something to discuss with the mentor |
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| 21:15.15 | caden | gc_: not necessarily because i was in that position last year. i recommend you contact your mentor asap and ask them what they think because that will give you time to make backup applications as well to other orgs |
| 21:15.21 | Jeff_S | you should mention it in your proposal and perhaps suggest ways that you will work around it |
| 21:15.59 | gc_ | jeff_s:Thanks for help |
| 21:16.04 | gc_ | caden :Thanks |
| 21:16.10 | Jeff_S | gc_: glad to. good luck |
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| 21:25.43 | AshishG | Google :-~~ |
| 21:26.00 | ajuonline | !google |
| 21:26.00 | socinfo | "google" is not the cosmic cash machine people think it is. |
| 21:26.17 | AshishG | hehe |
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| 21:30.07 | OliJG | !cosmic cash machine |
| 21:30.07 | socinfo | Error: "cosmic" is not a valid command. |
| 21:30.18 | OliJG | bugger, I thought google knew everything |
| 21:30.26 | ajuonline | !botabuse |
| 21:30.26 | socinfo | "botabuse" is (#1) Leave me alone! (also, you can play with me as much as you like in a private /query so as not to spam the channel), or (#2) When in a query with me, use whatis #gsoc <factoid> to get the best use., or (#3) You can also get a list of factoids with 'factoids search #gsoc *' and 'more' |
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| 21:33.57 | hittudiv | !slots |
| 21:33.57 | socinfo | "slots" is Slots are allocated after student proposals are all submitted. The final count of slots are unknown until the accepted students are announced. Please see http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/studentallocations for further information on how slots are allocated. |
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| 21:34.07 | erisco | !slots |
| 21:34.07 | socinfo | "slots" is Slots are allocated after student proposals are all submitted. The final count of slots are unknown until the accepted students are announced. Please see http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/studentallocations for further information on how slots are allocated. |
| 21:34.31 | gsoc_Dushyant | !slots |
| 21:34.31 | socinfo | "slots" is Slots are allocated after student proposals are all submitted. The final count of slots are unknown until the accepted students are announced. Please see http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/studentallocations for further information on how slots are allocated. |
| 21:34.35 | Jeff_S | please stop |
| 21:34.56 | schumaml | everyone who runs this command will get one slot less |
| 21:35.02 | Jeff_S | lol |
| 21:35.08 | danderson | and to make what Jeff_S said even clearer |
| 21:35.18 | danderson | stop or get kicked and banned. |
| 21:35.22 | dhaun | lol, sorry my fault I guess - I was asked in another channel and pointed to that command :P |
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| 21:35.54 | schumaml | point to /msg socinfo <command> from now on |
| 21:36.05 | danderson | dhaun: that's fine, it's more the 3-way echo that bothers me, if it gets out of hand :) |
| 21:36.14 | danderson | but yes, what schumaml said works too |
| 21:36.45 | *** join/#gsoc vladv (~vlad@92.114.115.9) |
| 21:37.10 | vladv | !slots |
| 21:37.10 | socinfo | "slots" is Slots are allocated after student proposals are all submitted. The final count of slots are unknown until the accepted students are announced. Please see http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/studentallocations for further information on how slots are allocated. |
| 21:37.16 | *** kick/#gsoc [vladv!~david@adium/CatfishMan] by Catfish_Man (vladv) |
| 21:37.32 | schumaml | no ban? |
| 21:37.47 | jkwood | He just joined. |
| 21:37.49 | Jeff_S | to be fair, he just joined |
| 21:37.52 | Catfish_Man | schumaml: he just joined. I'm assuming he heard about it on another channel |
| 21:38.02 | Catfish_Man | my hope is that he'll relay back to them "oh crap, don't do that" |
| 21:38.07 | Jeff_S | lol |
| 21:38.18 | Jeff_S | Catfish_Man: or just "who's this mean catfish??? |
| 21:38.23 | schumaml | ah, right ('conference mode') |
| 21:38.34 | erisco | I apologize. If there was a way to message the bot in private I would have used that. My presumption was that it'd be private anyhow |
| 21:38.47 | thebolt | erisco: well, there is |
| 21:39.04 | thebolt | Jeff_S: i don't think Catfish_Man have any problem with being perceived as mean ;-) |
| 21:39.08 | _ke | even though i set the mentors-list to digest i still get the digest AND additionally each single message. does anybody have a clue why that is? |
| 21:39.08 | *** join/#gsoc Roccivic (~Roccivic@86-41-157-137-dynamic.b-ras1.chf.cork.eircom.net) |
| 21:39.21 | Roccivic | !slots |
| 21:39.22 | socinfo | "slots" is Slots are allocated after student proposals are all submitted. The final count of slots are unknown until the accepted students are announced. Please see http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/studentallocations for further information on how slots are allocated. |
| 21:39.24 | *** join/#gsoc vladv (~vlad@92.114.115.9) |
| 21:39.27 | gc_ | Is Joomla participating in gsoc 2010? |
| 21:39.29 | dylan-m | :/ |
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| 21:39.54 | gsoc_Dushyant | \m/ |
| 21:39.56 | schumaml | oh, socinfo doesn't know about this command in a query |
| 21:40.07 | schumaml | are they channel-specific? |
| 21:40.18 | thebolt | schumaml: the syntax in private is different |
| 21:40.39 | thebolt | (and i don't remember the exact syntax right now.. let me grep the logs) |
| 21:41.27 | schumaml | interesting |
| 21:41.30 | Wolf_OSGeo | !botabuse |
| 21:41.30 | socinfo | "botabuse" is (#1) Leave me alone! (also, you can play with me as much as you like in a private /query so as not to spam the channel), or (#2) When in a query with me, use whatis #gsoc <factoid> to get the best use., or (#3) You can also get a list of factoids with 'factoids search #gsoc *' and 'more' |
| 21:41.46 | thebolt | ah, there it is :) |
| 21:41.48 | *** join/#gsoc MeW__ (~dirigeant@unaffiliated/mew/x-344925) |
| 21:42.16 | schumaml | well you don't need the !%@, but usually the commands should be the same |
| 21:42.23 | *** join/#gsoc yevlempy (~yevlempy@117.201.96.243) |
| 21:42.25 | schumaml | at least they are for my supybots |
| 21:43.17 | Wolf_OSGeo | mmm soup.... |
| 21:43.36 | gc_ | jeff_s:is joomla participating as a mentor in gsoc 20101 |
| 21:43.45 | gc_ | sorry gsoc 2010 |
| 21:43.58 | schumaml | gc_: check the list of orgs on the gsoc site? |
| 21:44.33 | *** part/#gsoc hittudiv (~hittudiv@210.212.160.101) |
| 21:45.24 | gc_ | schumam1I found joomla listed in the list , but in the gsoc group I found posts which wrote that joomla is not selected as a mentor in gsoc 2010 |
| 21:45.46 | gc_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:47.07 | schumaml | you found joomla in the list of orgs accepted for gsoc 2010? |
| 21:47.17 | schumaml | where? |
| 21:47.39 | gc_ | schuam1 : I think I read it a few days back |
| 21:47.47 | gc_ | in the lists |
| 21:49.04 | gc_ | schuamaml : if joomla is not selected then why have they posted there project ideas , http://docs.joomla.org/Summer_of_Code_2010_Project_Ideas |
| 21:49.05 | schumaml | do you know where you can find the list of orgs that got accepted for gsoc 2010? |
| 21:49.23 | gc_ | schumaml : this is confusing me |
| 21:49.57 | Wolf_OSGeo | !anyone |
| 21:49.57 | socinfo | "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. You can find the org's contact info by clicking on their name in the list at: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2010 |
| 21:50.02 | *** join/#gsoc orn (ogmar@adsl-75-26-204-56.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:50.13 | Wolf_OSGeo | that is the official list of accepted orgs |
| 21:50.26 | Wolf_OSGeo | if jooma's there they are in if no, they aren't |
| 21:50.35 | Wolf_OSGeo | simple as 1+1=10 |
| 21:51.16 | thebolt | gc_: they would have an idea page for their submission as a mentoring organisation.. does not mean they were selected or not |
| 21:51.19 | jkwood | gc_: All the organizations that applied to be mentors in GSoC 2010 should have an ideas page, whether they were selected or not. |
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| 21:52.38 | gc_ | jkwood:Thanks for help , I would have wasted a lot time preparing for joomla |
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| 21:53.45 | jkwood | Heh... well, the first thing I would do, is to get hold of any mentoring organizations you're interested in through their offical channels. |
| 21:54.06 | jkwood | They can tell you more about their participation and what they're looking for. |
| 21:54.30 | schumaml | probably a reason for reconsidering comment 4 of http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=799 |
| 21:54.39 | jkwood | I know that in our case, we'd rather see applications from someone we already know, than from someone who just showed up out of the blue at the GSoC website. |
| 21:55.03 | schumaml | because Joomla! is listed on the 2009 list |
| 21:55.27 | *** join/#gsoc lorraine (~lorraine@wr-130-64-189-244.medford.tufts.edu) |
| 21:56.01 | OliJG | Would a gsoc proposal be created via the "Create a new document" link on the GSOC site, or is there another place to do that? |
| 21:58.04 | Pinio | I have a question: if I'm writing a proposal to GSoC Office, because any organisation doesn't fit to my Idea there is a question "University or organization supporting your Google Summer of Code work". What should I write there? |
| 21:58.33 | smtms | Pinio, what it says |
| 21:58.46 | schumaml | should be the university or organization your mentor is from |
| 21:58.47 | smtms | Pinio, Google won't provide you a mentor - you must find him yourself |
| 21:59.02 | Pinio | ahh.. |
| 21:59.22 | danderson | exactly. The "Google" generic organization is just a placeholder for independent projects |
| 21:59.34 | danderson | we don't provide review or mentoring services |
| 21:59.34 | Pinio | Thanks. |
| 21:59.40 | danderson | it's just some place under which to attach you :) |
| 21:59.46 | smtms | Pinio, mentoring organizations offer mentors and project ideas and feedback on proposals |
| 22:00.13 | *** join/#gsoc General_Fou_Fou (~Sarah@dhip-116.wl.rs.rrw.colby.edu) |
| 22:00.19 | Pinio | I have an idea obout one of Google product |
| 22:00.23 | schumaml | OliJG: sse the first line of body text at http://socghop.appspot.com/ |
| 22:00.32 | schumaml | see |
| 22:00.33 | danderson | (although for the Google org, it is Google that reviews your application and decides whether to accept it - and full disclosure, it's quite rare that we accept independent applications) |
| 22:00.42 | danderson | Pinio: you want to apply for a job or an internship, not GSoC. |
| 22:01.04 | OliJG | schumaml: I've already applied. I need to find out where to stick my proposal. |
| 22:01.11 | danderson | unless your proposal concerns one of the specific Google open source projects that are participating (eg. Chromium), your proposal will be rejected. |
| 22:01.18 | smtms | Pinio, is this Google product open-source? :-) |
| 22:01.36 | danderson | if you want to work on Google proprietary products/technology, you need to apply for an engineering job or internship :) |
| 22:02.42 | smtms | do you apply for job at Google, or does Google find you and offer you one? |
| 22:03.12 | Pinio | It's a small task regarding to a Calendar. |
| 22:03.30 | danderson | nope, Calendar is a google product, not a Google open source project. Sorry. |
| 22:03.35 | schumaml | smtms: "and don't quit your current job yourself, we'll handle this for you"? |
| 22:03.57 | danderson | just to clarify, participating in GSoC does *not* give you access to *any* Google confidential material, source code, information or teleporters |
| 22:04.14 | danderson | Google is nothing more than the bank and organization component. |
| 22:04.29 | danderson | (and mentor in some very specific cases of some of our open source projects, like Chromium) |
| 22:05.04 | Pinio | Ok, Thak you for answering :] |
| 22:05.09 | smtms | schumaml, it may be easier for Google to pick the people they want instead of receiving 100000 job applications a year |
| 22:05.26 | danderson | Pinio: sorry, it's probably not the answer you wanted to hear :( |
| 22:05.43 | Dark_Shikari | well, they receive a lot of applications |
| 22:05.47 | OliJG | Where can I, as a student who already hashed out the proposal with the organization, post the official proposal description on gsoc? |
| 22:05.52 | Dark_Shikari | from my own experience, they usually ask you to apply |
| 22:05.52 | schumaml | smtms: I'd guess it's more than six figures anyway |
| 22:05.55 | Dark_Shikari | as opposed to asking you to work for them |
| 22:05.55 | danderson | but yeah, working on Google products -> full-time or intern engineering application, not a GSoC application |
| 22:06.05 | jkwood | danderson: If I send you guys a t-shirt, can I get one of those teleporters? |
| 22:06.09 | Pinio | True, my second awesome (as I thought) idea gone wrong :( |
| 22:06.11 | Dark_Shikari | they wanted me to work for them, so they told me to apply |
| 22:06.20 | danderson | jkwood: no, and I don't know what teleporters you're talking about. |
| 22:06.21 | Dark_Shikari | Then they later decided that my open source work was a legal risk |
| 22:06.33 | Dark_Shikari | because of their love-hate relationship with open source |
| 22:06.42 | *** join/#gsoc yevlempy (~yevlempy@117.201.96.198) |
| 22:06.45 | danderson | Dark_Shikari: well, that sucks. |
| 22:06.56 | Dark_Shikari | Meh, I got better job offers anyways |
| 22:06.58 | Dark_Shikari | google is overrated |
| 22:07.11 | danderson | in your *incorrect* opinion ;) |
| 22:07.23 | Dark_Shikari | I've been there, facebook had better food |
| 22:07.32 | danderson | seriously though, yes. There are plenty of awesome jobs out there, Google doesn't have a monopoly. |
| 22:07.33 | Dark_Shikari | and any company that has more employees than I get paid $ per month is too large |
| 22:07.37 | Dark_Shikari | ;) |
| 22:07.41 | Pinio | I don't think that I have any chance to work for Google with that little Idea.. |
| 22:08.09 | thebolt | Dark_Shikari: hehe, good comparison :) |
| 22:08.14 | danderson | Dark_Shikari: that, I can agree with. Clearly I need to get a couple more promotions and raises :P |
| 22:08.25 | smtms | Pinio, you learned something about GSoC today; you can still participate |
| 22:08.33 | smtms | Pinio, or try next year |
| 22:08.39 | thebolt | Dark_Shikari: although, by that measurement my current company is too big, and we're only 2½ people ;) |
| 22:09.01 | Dark_Shikari | thebolt: lol |
| 22:09.05 | Dark_Shikari | startups don't count! ;) |
| 22:09.10 | sanjoyd | !timeline |
| 22:09.10 | socinfo | "timeline" is http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline |
| 22:09.11 | Dark_Shikari | plus, you _are_ paying yourself in equity |
| 22:09.13 | *** join/#gsoc brianherman (~brianherm@acad54122.wireless.uic.edu) |
| 22:09.18 | Dark_Shikari | also, 2.5 people? is your startup called "Two and a half men"? |
| 22:09.22 | thebolt | Dark_Shikari: not yet, no company formed yet ;) |
| 22:09.25 | Pinio | I'm thinking intensively obout new great idea, wish me luck ;] |
| 22:09.27 | thebolt | haha, no :P |
| 22:09.44 | thebolt | maybe it should be ;) |
| 22:10.10 | danderson | Dark_Shikari: so, where *do* you work, if I may be terribly curious? |
| 22:10.18 | Dark_Shikari | right now? college ;) |
| 22:10.26 | smtms | OliJG, did you manage to find the place to apply? |
| 22:10.28 | Dark_Shikari | Technically I now have a full-time position at Gaikai. |
| 22:10.32 | Dark_Shikari | Technically. |
| 22:10.38 | danderson | ah, well that job sucks. The pay is awful and the hours are long. |
| 22:10.39 | Dark_Shikari | I just get paid a lot less during the school year ;) |
| 22:10.51 | danderson | at least you can be drunk most of the time, I guess |
| 22:10.51 | Dark_Shikari | And yeah, that |
| 22:10.51 | OliJG | smtms: Like I said, I already did apply a couple days ago |
| 22:10.59 | Dark_Shikari | I get paid -$50k a year at college |
| 22:11.03 | Dark_Shikari | and I put in so much time too! |
| 22:11.07 | Dark_Shikari | I want a raise |
| 22:11.11 | OliJG | I'm trying to find out where I can post a proposal that I already hashed out with the mentoring organization |
| 22:11.21 | smtms | OliJG, you want to make it public? |
| 22:11.21 | danderson | Dark_Shikari: exactly |
| 22:11.36 | Dark_Shikari | Now, technically, I'm also getting paid in equity |
| 22:11.38 | thebolt | Dark_Shikari: startups are not much better short-term.. |
| 22:11.41 | OliJG | I guess, they just said to "post it on the gsoc site" |
| 22:11.42 | Dark_Shikari | it triggers after 4 years |
| 22:11.47 | Dark_Shikari | it's apparently called a "diploma" |
| 22:11.52 | danderson | and gaikai sounds fairly cool, although I definitely want to see how the "no lag" thing works out in practice with hosted gaming |
| 22:11.53 | thebolt | Dark_Shikari: currently being paid in negative (putting in own money for materials etc) |
| 22:12.04 | Dark_Shikari | thebolt: don't worry, I'm doing that myself too |
| 22:12.14 | danderson | I don't have much of a problem with the concept, but the execution has a lot of potential for suck |
| 22:12.15 | Dark_Shikari | I'm running my own startup while doing all this =p |
| 22:12.21 | Dark_Shikari | danderson: yeah, theirs is a bit different |
| 22:12.25 | smtms | OliJG, wait, do you have your proposal listed under "List my Student Proposals" on the GSoC website? |
| 22:12.27 | Dark_Shikari | having tested it, it works well enough for everything except FPS games. |
| 22:12.31 | Dark_Shikari | And we're improving it |
| 22:12.35 | OliJG | Specifically I was told "You've got to write a detailed proposal and submit it on the official gsoc site". Where exactly is that? |
| 22:12.38 | Dark_Shikari | The main issue isn't latency, but rather costs |
| 22:12.46 | Dark_Shikari | server space is expensive |
| 22:12.56 | OliJG | smtms: Probably not |
| 22:12.56 | Dark_Shikari | you want to stuff as much per server as possible |
| 22:13.04 | OliJG | no |
| 22:13.04 | smtms | OliJG, you log in first, then use the link "# Submit your Student Proposal |
| 22:13.07 | thebolt | Dark_Shikari: well, quite technically i am starting two companies at once ;) (and one of them acting as holding company for the other).. and yea, finishing my msc thesis as we go :) |
| 22:13.10 | danderson | quite cool. I doubt FPS will ever get completely cloud-based, you'll always need a rendering and dead reckoning engine running locally (imho at least) |
| 22:13.21 | Dark_Shikari | danderson: I doubt gaming period will |
| 22:13.28 | Dark_Shikari | it's a stupid idea |
| 22:13.35 | OliJG | smtms: Ah, thank you |
| 22:13.35 | Dark_Shikari | However, for some applications, it's rather useful |
| 22:13.37 | danderson | but having everything but pure twitch games reasonable is interesting |
| 22:13.44 | thebolt | oh well.. need to sleep, alarm goes off in 5 hours 30 minutes |
| 22:13.51 | danderson | Dark_Shikari: so, um, why are you working on making it happen for games? :) |
| 22:13.59 | Dark_Shikari | danderson: because some of those applications include games ;) |
| 22:14.31 | danderson | heh, okay |
| 22:14.35 | schumaml | FPS will be banned worldwide within the next five years anyway ;) |
| 22:14.38 | Dark_Shikari | lol |
| 22:14.42 | Dark_Shikari | But it works pretty well |
| 22:14.49 | Dark_Shikari | I played Mariokart with no perceptible lag under the old system |
| 22:14.50 | danderson | in any case, if you can make the case for gaming compelling, less intensive apps should be a piece of cake |
| 22:14.54 | Dark_Shikari | same with EVE Online and World of Warcraft |
| 22:14.58 | Dark_Shikari | and Prince of Persia |
| 22:15.04 | Dark_Shikari | and the new system is at least 10ms better |
| 22:15.09 | schumaml | "if you want to use a gun, join the Army!" |
| 22:15.13 | danderson | whoa, that is pretty cool. |
| 22:15.22 | dho | yeah so you can do things like the video they just released on wikileaks. |
| 22:15.24 | Dark_Shikari | Now... COD: Modern Warfare didn't fare quite as well |
| 22:15.30 | Dark_Shikari | It was a tad laggy |
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| 22:24.27 | Roccivic | !slots |
| 22:24.27 | socinfo | "slots" is Slots are allocated after student proposals are all submitted. The final count of slots are unknown until the accepted students are announced. Please see http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/studentallocations for further information on how slots are allocated. |
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