| 00:01.30 | c_schmitz | but I think the basic problem lies more in the fact that there was barely any definition what was the basic timeframe for the average 'easy','medium' or 'difficult' task |
| 00:01.35 | Dark_Shikari | Yeah |
| 00:01.38 | Dark_Shikari | I assumed "difficult" meant "hard" |
| 00:01.43 | Dark_Shikari | not "enormous amount of work" |
| 00:01.50 | Dark_Shikari | and I was told by my organizer that "coding" generally meant "difficult" |
| 00:01.52 | Dark_Shikari | while "editing a wiki" was easy |
| 00:02.02 | Dark_Shikari | I would consider writing SIMD assembly code to be "difficult" |
| 00:02.15 | c_schmitz | yeah, definition problem |
| 00:02.16 | Dark_Shikari | But what happens when a student comes in and writes 15 whole functions? |
| 00:02.28 | c_schmitz | they have to be more specific on that for next year |
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| 00:02.35 | Dark_Shikari | So far though it's insanely successful |
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| 00:02.41 | Dark_Shikari | we've gotten more response in 4 days than GSOC usually gets in a month |
| 00:02.48 | c_schmitz | yep, for us too |
| 00:03.23 | c_schmitz | It would be good for GSOC would be more like GCin and the other way around, somthing in between |
| 00:03.33 | Dark_Shikari | one guy wrote a massive, ~1000 line python regression testing suite in like two days |
| 00:03.50 | Dark_Shikari | obviously, that's less "difficult" and more "totally awesome" |
| 00:04.11 | c_schmitz | hehe I would see that as 'difficult' |
| 00:05.45 | c_schmitz | anyway, it is like it is, lets make the best of it - just slow down, mabye bundle shorter tasks to packages |
| 00:08.20 | Dark_Shikari | well, it's more than difficult |
| 00:08.27 | Dark_Shikari | writing 1000 lines of python is generally more work than one asm function |
| 00:08.32 | Dark_Shikari | which is generally way more work than editing a wiki |
| 00:08.42 | Dark_Shikari | so which one's "difficult"? |
| 00:08.44 | Dark_Shikari | of course, part of it comes down to education as well |
| 00:09.08 | Dark_Shikari | it took a day or two to educate one student enough to write asm. And then he was good enough to write a dozen functions. Did he "transform" the difficulty from "difficult" to "easy"? ;) |
| 00:10.32 | gevaerts | Is asm written by someone with two days experience really better than whatever the compiler does? |
| 00:11.05 | c_schmitz | well, a difficulty of a task is always meant for someone having certain skills, not for untrained personnel :-) As you already said, the time needed is the important factor. |
| 00:12.25 | Dark_Shikari | gevaerts: asm written by a random code generator is generally better than what the compiler does =p |
| 00:12.32 | gevaerts | ah, ok :) |
| 00:12.33 | Dark_Shikari | compilers generally can't generate SIMD. |
| 00:12.49 | Dark_Shikari | in many cases even the naive SIMD version can be 15x faster than typical C. |
| 00:13.06 | gevaerts | is only familiar with people complaining about compiler-generated ARM code |
| 00:13.14 | Dark_Shikari | well, that's a special case |
| 00:13.19 | Dark_Shikari | in which the compiler is so bad it can't even generate scalar code well |
| 00:13.28 | Dark_Shikari | gcc is hysterically awful on ARM |
| 00:13.48 | Dark_Shikari | (Normally it's safe to assume the compiler can generate pretty good scalar code) |
| 00:15.02 | Dark_Shikari | (And yeah, beating gcc on scalar code requires lots of experience/skill) |
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| 00:30.50 | thebolt | Dark_Shikari: there are some compilers that generate decent SIMD in some special cases/platforms.. on the other hand there are other ISAs that compiler makes pretty awful job with also (TTA & VLIW stuff for example) |
| 00:31.03 | Dark_Shikari | some very special cases |
| 00:31.16 | Dark_Shikari | I ran Intel's compiler on x264, and the autovectorizer only triggered once across all the C versions of DSP functions |
| 00:31.28 | Dark_Shikari | and it did an awful job |
| 00:31.42 | thebolt | heh ok |
| 00:31.53 | thebolt | well, the one i know that does/did a good job was VectorC on ps2 and ps3 spus |
| 00:31.56 | Dark_Shikari | so in general you have to keep tweaking your code until the compiler recognizes it ;) |
| 00:32.29 | thebolt | (compiling game graphics and physics code) |
| 00:32.37 | thebolt | but yes, you have to give it a little help at times |
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| 00:35.06 | thebolt | nowdays i don't care _too_ much about SIMD stuff, coding embedded systems |
| 00:36.18 | Dark_Shikari | today "embedded systems" are often things like OMAPs =p |
| 00:37.35 | thebolt | well, for me it does include OMAPs, but that is the very top range (and then it is more for "monitoring functions" and don't require that level of performance ;) |
| 00:37.58 | thebolt | daily its more ARM7 MCUs or Cortex-M3 stuff.. (or smaller/more specialized).. no simd there |
| 00:38.11 | Dark_Shikari | there is armv6 "simd" though |
| 00:38.12 | Dark_Shikari | and swar |
| 00:39.16 | thebolt | yea, but ARM7 is ARMv4 and v3 ;) |
| 00:40.10 | Dark_Shikari | considers anything prior to ARMv7 very silly |
| 00:40.18 | thebolt | that is another thing i hate with arm btw.. their version numbering scheme |
| 00:40.34 | thebolt | haha, well, for embedded devices its useful.. small, low-power, cheap |
| 00:40.36 | Dark_Shikari | I hate their slow as shit simd units |
| 00:40.42 | Dark_Shikari | combined with really good instruction sets |
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| 00:40.59 | thebolt | hehe |
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| 00:42.01 | thebolt | for a small and silly processor (that is sold by the million, if not more) look at the MSP430 series by TI ;) |
| 00:43.03 | thebolt | hard to find anything using less power though |
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| 10:25.01 | Nightrose | Dark_Shikari: it's weekend after thanksgiving |
| 10:25.08 | Nightrose | that's likely the reason they're not here |
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| 10:26.19 | Dark_Shikari | Nightrose: I haven't seen them here period |
| 10:26.35 | Nightrose | they are here regularly |
| 10:26.50 | Nightrose | not seeing things/people doesn't mean they don't exist ;-) |
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| 17:35.27 | skfin | Erm, does somebody know a link to a bug report regarding special letters on addresses? |
| 17:36.07 | skfin | Because I can't register because I live in city called Ylöjärvi |
| 17:37.07 | skfin | And also, there are only two school types, high school and university, what if I'm not on both of them |
| 17:48.52 | andre__ | skfin, what is the exact error you get for the city name? |
| 17:48.59 | andre__ | and what school type is it? |
| 17:49.13 | skfin | Invalid characters, only A-z, 0-9, - and whitespace are allowed. |
| 17:49.33 | skfin | öä are not included on A-z |
| 17:49.39 | andre__ | write o instead of ö? |
| 17:50.42 | gevaerts | Isn't there some official way to transcribe this, like e.g. the German ö becoming oe? |
| 17:51.18 | skfin | Well but is it official idk. |
| 17:51.58 | skfin | Like, is it supported on post addresses |
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| 18:00.09 | skfin | And the school |
| 18:00.19 | skfin | I'm on 9th grade of elementary school |
| 18:02.49 | gevaerts | hm, I'd suggest to ask carols about this |
| 18:03.03 | gevaerts | She should be online tomorrow at about this time |
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| 18:05.46 | skfin | Okay |
| 18:06.58 | andre__ | well, Google is very limited when it comes to all this |
| 18:07.01 | andre__ | see e.g. https://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=903 |
| 18:07.24 | andre__ | (last comment) |
| 18:08.49 | dreimark | http://thejournal.com/articles/2010/10/20/google-code-in-calls-on-k-12-students-to-become-open-source-developers.aspx |
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| 18:10.28 | gevaerts | skfin: I suspect you won't be able to change the address requirements, but maybe you could ask at your local post office what the best solution is? I'm sure you're not the first one with this problem |
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| 19:06.33 | jrabbit | skfin: don't know about your post but if the area numbers are right a local postperson will be involved in delivering it and can figure out missing accents |
| 19:08.47 | gevaerts | Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Letter_to_Russia_with_krokozyabry.jpg for some ideas about what sort of thing can still arrive |
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