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| 00:13.09 | dotnick | !next |
| 00:13.09 | socinfo | dotnick: "next" is March 18-27: Would-be student participants discuss application ideas with mentoring organizations. |
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| 00:17.25 | al_ | hello |
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| 02:30.07 | wliao | I have a problem viewing the participating Orgs. |
| 02:30.24 | wliao | seem something wrong with the javascript. |
| 02:32.22 | amstan | wliao: works here(dev chrome), what browser do you have? |
| 02:32.36 | wliao | amstan, chrome |
| 02:32.37 | ojwb | a few people seem to be having issues with it |
| 02:32.47 | ojwb | it does typically take a few seconds to load (for me at least) |
| 02:32.50 | amstan | it seems to take a while to load, but it works after |
| 02:33.04 | wliao | i got Uncaught ReferenceError: jQuery is not defined |
| 02:33.09 | ojwb | oops |
| 02:33.34 | ojwb | wliao: you should probably report that to the melange developers |
| 02:33.41 | ojwb | #melange is the best place to find them |
| 02:33.59 | amstan | is reading the gsoc man page: http://www.booki.cc/gsocstudentguide/_v/1.0/ |
| 02:34.54 | wliao | ojwb, it feels like some thing wrong with my network. |
| 02:35.27 | wliao | I got everything from http except for the jquery.min.js |
| 02:35.30 | amstan | wliao: can you load this: https://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/1.3.2/jquery.min.js |
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| 02:36.21 | wliao | amstan, yes. |
| 02:36.38 | wliao | it's Ok now. It's a issue about my proxy. |
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| 02:51.54 | Arithmomaniac | I'm really excited about GSOC, but my school ends/starts three weeks later than others. Is there any way to accomodate such schedules for deadlines and billing? |
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| 02:53.32 | ojwb | Arithmomaniac: a significant number of students have exams, etc in awkward places |
| 02:53.45 | ojwb | talk to your org, and be prepared to work around it |
| 02:54.11 | Arithmomaniac | OK. But is a whole three-week shift possible if the org allows? |
| 02:54.32 | ojwb | the end date is fixed |
| 02:54.39 | ojwb | but you can start coding early for example |
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| 02:55.27 | amstan | I've seen a few places with the figure 40hours/week being mentioned. However from some projects I looked at, i don't think that they'll require full time coding for the whole summer. Am i underestimating? |
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| 02:56.03 | ojwb | quite possibly |
| 02:56.14 | ojwb | things usually take longer than you initially think |
| 02:56.31 | amstan | Also, it seems that some tasks are much easier than others, like they could take 10 times more time |
| 02:56.36 | ojwb | remember most of the projects ideas are just ideas |
| 02:56.53 | ojwb | you can build them up or restructure them if your want, or propose your own idea |
| 02:56.58 | amstan | some projects are about 5 bugfixes, and others are making a whole new application |
| 02:57.18 | ojwb | well, students have different skills to start with |
| 02:57.58 | amstan | ojwb: yet they will get payed the same, correct? |
| 02:58.11 | ojwb | if they pass |
| 02:58.18 | amstan | of course |
| 02:58.33 | ojwb | I'd hope students would do a similar amount of work, rather than produce a similar amount of code |
| 02:59.06 | ojwb | the money is meant as an enabler - without it few students could afford to spend the summer doing this |
| 02:59.28 | amstan | oh |
| 02:59.39 | protoss_Z | its good motivation :p |
| 03:00.09 | amstan | i'm also having some difficulty choosing where to apply |
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| 03:12.59 | devangshah | :) |
| 03:18.19 | amstan | hmm: "I would like to use the work I did for my Google Summer of Code project to obtain course credit from my university. Is this acceptable?" |
| 03:18.37 | amstan | so.. one can get a coop credit for gsoc? |
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| 03:18.57 | ojwb | that's up to your university I suspect |
| 03:19.21 | ojwb | if you pass, I understand carol will give you a letter you can give to your university |
| 03:20.10 | amstan | though, i think some of them might want to setup paperwork before working term starts |
| 03:20.50 | ojwb | i have no idea |
| 03:20.56 | ojwb | it's likely to have come up before |
| 03:21.33 | amstan | it's a nice thing to keep in mind i guess |
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| 03:29.05 | dskw | amstan: my college allows students to claim course credits from gsoc, but the scheme only started this year |
| 03:29.50 | amstan | dskw: what do you mean by course credits though? is it instead of a work term/coop/internship? |
| 03:30.46 | ojwb | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Course_credit (particularly the US section) I'd imagine |
| 03:31.15 | dskw | not all courses in my college require internships. i'm not familiar with the term "coop", sorry. |
| 03:31.48 | dskw | but yes, gsoc can certainly count towards graduation (in my case) |
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| 03:32.53 | devangshah | i am passed out from the school as graduate. this year I was to enroll for my post graduation but unfortunately I did not get enrolled for this semester. waiting for next semester to enroll. (since last few years i was unable to participate because in my country we have exams during summer. so could not participate.) so can i participate this time? |
| 03:33.56 | ojwb | devangshah: you need to be enrolled or accepted |
| 03:34.07 | ojwb | at whatever the cut off date is |
| 03:34.10 | ojwb | !eligible |
| 03:34.11 | socinfo | ojwb: "eligible" is Follow this handy flowchart to see if you are eligible http://goo.gl/kvCSv (text version at http://goo.gl/ImfNT) |
| 03:34.44 | ojwb | if you have (or can get) a letter from the uni saying you're definitely on the course next semester, I think that's sufficient |
| 03:35.48 | felipevieira | !next |
| 03:35.48 | socinfo | felipevieira: "next" is March 18-27: Would-be student participants discuss application ideas with mentoring organizations. |
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| 03:39.38 | devangshah | ojwb: but the enrollment for the next semester that is august has not yet started and I really can't get a letter from that university before 25 th april. is there something i can do? i mean i really(waiting since 2 years) do want to participate (at least do the application for an organization and see what happens). |
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| 03:41.55 | ojwb | devangshah: it's pointless to apply if you aren't eligible |
| 03:42.04 | ojwb | you're just messing people around |
| 03:42.53 | ojwb | it sounds like you aren't i'm afraid, but carols can give a definitive answer |
| 03:43.03 | ojwb | but she'll be quite busy currently i suspect |
| 03:43.50 | devangshah | ojwb: thanks for you time. |
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| 03:46.55 | ojwb | devangshah: many orgs are equally happy to mentor outside gsoc, so you can still get the mentoring and the experience of working with an open source project - you don't get the stipend though |
| 03:47.37 | amstan | ls |
| 03:48.10 | ojwb | wrong_window.txt |
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| 03:48.43 | devangshah | ojwb: i am not worried about the money/stipend. if you can let me know how can i approach such mentoring orgs, that would be great. |
| 03:49.07 | amstan | ojwb: yeah, looks like, sorry about that |
| 03:51.58 | ojwb | devangshah: well, I know we (xapian) are; kde certainly are: http://www.valdyas.org/fading/index.cgi/kde/gsoc2011_misconceptions.html ; i suspect most orgs in gsoc would be |
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| 03:53.26 | ojwb | devangshah: there's a list of some others here: http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/FOSS_Mentor_Projects#FOSS_Projects_Interested_in_Mentoring_Students.2FEducators |
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| 04:09.56 | devangshah | ojwb: that really helps. i appreciate. still have a chance. :) |
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| 04:49.43 | chunmun | socinfo: logs |
| 04:49.43 | socinfo | chunmun: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
| 04:49.54 | chunmun | socinfo: commands |
| 04:50.04 | chunmun | socinfo: help |
| 04:50.04 | socinfo | chunmun: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. |
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| 04:50.33 | amstan | supybot is cool |
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| 04:51.52 | devangshah | help |
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| 04:57.39 | NayanShah | devangshah, its socinfo: help |
| 04:58.58 | devangshah | socinfo: help |
| 04:58.58 | socinfo | devangshah: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. |
| 04:59.32 | chunmun | devangshah: what exactly you looking for? |
| 04:59.56 | chunmun | socinfo: man |
| 05:00.05 | chunmun | socinfo: manual |
| 05:00.11 | devangshah | socinfo: man |
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| 05:00.26 | chunmun | devangshah: doesnt work ;) |
| 05:00.46 | amstan | try one of the following: http://ubottu.com/stdin/supydocs/plugins/, http://supybook.fealdia.org/devel/, or http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/gribble/index.php?title=Supybot_Resources |
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| 05:03.49 | ojwb | !botabuse |
| 05:04.00 | ojwb | oh, that's lost |
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| 05:04.14 | ojwb | anyway, please remember that you're spamming the channel when you play with the bot |
| 05:04.35 | ojwb | and you can talk to it privately |
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| 05:06.58 | NayanShah | so playing with the bot alone is allowed. lol. |
| 05:08.10 | ojwb | it's preferred, even |
| 05:09.10 | NayanShah | there seems to be some problem with login mechanism |
| 05:09.48 | NayanShah | i have multiple logins activated. when i try to login with one of the accounts it gives an error, http://www.google-melange.com/_ah/conflogin |
| 05:10.09 | ojwb | why do you want to login multiple times? |
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| 05:11.07 | NayanShah | no, i have multiple login activated in gmail. |
| 05:11.35 | ojwb | i think melange is tied to a particular email address |
| 05:12.01 | ojwb | it got unhappy with people who switched from @googlemail.com to @gmail.com last year |
| 05:12.18 | NayanShah | always been on gmail.com |
| 05:12.26 | NayanShah | but i also have an apps account. |
| 05:12.44 | NayanShah | so when i login it shows me both options. |
| 05:13.09 | NayanShah | i select @gmail.com and then redirects me to the error. |
| 05:13.52 | ojwb | I guess ask on #melange |
| 05:14.08 | NayanShah | no reply there. |
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| 05:14.53 | ojwb | well, apply some patience |
| 05:15.04 | ojwb | they're mostly in europe |
| 05:15.44 | ojwb | they are the people who are most likely to be able to help |
| 05:15.56 | NayanShah | will try after a few hours then. |
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| 06:34.52 | chotu | hello |
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| 06:36.54 | NayanShah | !roles |
| 06:37.03 | NayanShah | socinfo: roles |
| 06:37.52 | ojwb | NayanShah: if it doesn't answer, there's no factoid with that name |
| 06:38.50 | NayanShah | alright. found the info on the site. |
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| 07:08.39 | v1v3kn | What to do if a project's community completely ignores you on irc and the mailing list, even if your questions/posts are similar to other posts on the list. Is it time to look for another project then? |
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| 07:09.28 | Myth17 | v1v3kn, people might not be around, be a lil more patient :) |
| 07:09.37 | Shivansh | i dont think any community is going to ignore anyone...maybe ppl are not online |
| 07:09.44 | Shivansh | ohh |
| 07:09.49 | Shivansh | my pt also |
| 07:11.02 | v1v3kn | But if they ignore you for a week or so? |
| 07:11.23 | ojwb | a week is a bad sign |
| 07:11.26 | ojwb | a day isn't really |
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| 07:11.57 | ojwb | probably the majority of mentors have day jobs which aren't working on the open source project |
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| 07:14.42 | v1v3kn | So, I better look for a more open community then |
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| 07:14.57 | ojwb | v1v3kn: how long has it been? |
| 07:15.52 | v1v3kn | Like a month or so,In the first week I got replies and some suggestion but after that I'm getting completely ignored |
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| 07:15.57 | ojwb | I guess it's possible some people get replies more quickly if they're asking about projects with potential mentors who are around more often |
| 07:16.06 | ojwb | hmm, I'd probably try elsewhere then |
| 07:16.19 | ojwb | not a great experience really |
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| 07:18.11 | chunmun | v1v3kn: in my first soc back in 08, I didnt hear much from an org till the D day when I was one of the conflicts. |
| 07:18.45 | chunmun | v1v3kn: I ll say they are busy rather than ignoring you! |
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| 07:20.18 | v1v3kn | chunmun: That's possible. Conflicts? |
| 07:20.42 | chunmun | v1v3kn: when two or more orgs choose you, you are a conflict :) |
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| 07:21.56 | ojwb | but they shouldn't have been busy a month ago |
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| 07:23.38 | chunmun | v1v3kn: are you mailing to a specific person or a mailing list? better to do the latter.. |
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| 07:23.53 | v1v3kn | I am doing the latter |
| 07:24.04 | chunmun | cool enough, all the best! |
| 07:24.19 | v1v3kn | thanks |
| 07:25.01 | chunmun | is yet to hear back from the org am looking for this year , and there is no irc either :! |
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| 07:43.59 | kai | morning folks |
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| 07:56.24 | thebolt | hi kai |
| 07:56.47 | kai | hey thebolt, how's life? |
| 07:57.58 | thebolt | it is just excellent |
| 08:01.15 | thebolt | how about yourself? |
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| 08:08.40 | koda|gsoc | hi |
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| 08:10.55 | kai | pretty good :) now if only my bacteria would grow decently instead of producing yellowish slimy stuff.. :) |
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| 08:13.57 | thebolt | kai: hehe |
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| 08:14.47 | kai | only some of them do, though, I haven't been able to identify a pattern, and it doesn't seem to be contamination either |
| 08:15.16 | |Kev| | Use food dye! |
| 08:15.31 | |Kev| | Then it can be purple slimy stuff, which has to be better. |
| 08:15.37 | kai | hehe |
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| 10:05.01 | koda|gsoc | question, can a student send an application if he was already a developer for the project? |
| 10:05.14 | ojwb | yes |
| 10:05.54 | ojwb | orgs are able to impose restrictions on top of google's though, so not all orgs will accept such applications |
| 10:06.03 | ojwb | i'd hope they make it clear though |
| 10:06.10 | MatthewWilkes | koda|gsoc: But not if he's a mentor for that or any other project |
| 10:06.51 | koda|gsoc | but hypothetically, won't that cause vested interests? |
| 10:07.28 | ojwb | possibly |
| 10:07.34 | bobbens | koda|gsoc: it's ugly but it happens |
| 10:07.40 | ojwb | which is one reason orgs might not allow it |
| 10:08.11 | bobbens | but I'd think it's impossible to determine whether or not he was previously a developer as roles in open source are generally not that clearly defined |
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| 10:09.16 | ojwb | well, it's probably easy to say some people definitely are - e.g. "has/had commit access" is a pretty clear signal they are/were |
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| 10:09.59 | bobbens | some projects have an open commit access policy |
| 10:10.05 | bobbens | and it doesn't mkae that much sense with git anymore |
| 10:10.11 | bobbens | as everyone has their own fork :) |
| 10:10.24 | ojwb | believe it or not, not everyone is using git yet |
| 10:10.36 | ojwb | but yes, that's a less useful signal than it was |
| 10:10.49 | ojwb | it was just an example though |
| 10:11.00 | bobbens | yeah, there's those who resist the change :) |
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| 10:21.12 | koda|gsoc | git? hg ftw! |
| 10:21.21 | koda|gsoc | hides and waits for the flamewar |
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| 10:21.55 | Upthorn | well, it was the choice google code made. |
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| 10:28.24 | jrabbit | Its weird they think supporting hg is an out for not having git support. |
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| 10:31.54 | Di_Ex | hello |
| 10:32.10 | Di_Ex | I have one question |
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| 10:32.47 | Di_Ex | can students sent they applications if they are graduating this year? |
| 10:33.02 | ojwb | !eligible |
| 10:33.02 | socinfo | ojwb: "eligible" is Follow this handy flowchart to see if you are eligible http://goo.gl/kvCSv (text version at http://goo.gl/ImfNT) |
| 10:33.07 | paxswill_ | I think that's answered in the FAQ |
| 10:33.09 | ojwb | Di_Ex: follow the flow chart^ |
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| 10:33.44 | ojwb | it's in the faq too, but the flowchart is easier to follow |
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| 10:38.32 | Di_Ex | that's good. thanx! |
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| 11:04.18 | koda|gsoc | can a mentor be non-code savvy? |
| 11:04.39 | David_Honeynet | koda|gsoc: it would depend on the project |
| 11:04.40 | bobbens | koda|gsoc: afaik there's no restrictions on what you have to know for neither students nor mentors |
| 11:04.56 | bobbens | but if you assign a mentor who doesn't know how to code to a student doing a pure coding project, failure may occur |
| 11:05.06 | bobbens | use common sense (tm) |
| 11:05.07 | ojwb | in general, it's probably not a good plan |
| 11:06.01 | ojwb | unless there's a co-mentor who does |
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| 11:06.54 | gevaerts | I'd say a mentor has to either know the code involved quite well, or know people who know the code quite well quite well |
| 11:07.28 | koda|gsoc | a co-mentor? |
| 11:07.33 | koda|gsoc | is that allowed? |
| 11:07.39 | ojwb | two (or more) people mentoring one student |
| 11:07.40 | ojwb | sure |
| 11:07.48 | gevaerts | There is one mentor who's responsible for the paperwork |
| 11:07.53 | ojwb | you really need ... yes that |
| 11:08.06 | ojwb | i think melange may even have explicit support for comentors this year |
| 11:08.48 | koda|gsoc | awesome |
| 11:08.54 | gevaerts | But I'd say the entire point of gsoc is "working with the community", not "working with a mentor", so (I know this is an exotic opinion) a mentor who's too code-savvy may actually be a bad thing! |
| 11:08.55 | koda|gsoc | might solve a few headaches |
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| 11:09.37 | ojwb | the students definitely need ready access to somebody who knows the code |
| 11:09.53 | ojwb | but it's good to encourage them to talk to people besides their mentor |
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| 11:13.22 | ojwb | koda|gsoc: if this is the first year for your org, resist trying to scrape together as many mentors as you can - it |
| 11:13.41 | ojwb | is better to mentor a small number of students well, rather than a large number badly |
| 11:13.46 | ojwb | for everybody concerned |
| 11:14.06 | koda|gsoc | yeah that is true as well |
| 11:14.08 | ramnes | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:14.16 | ojwb | you'll learn a lot about the process |
| 11:14.28 | gevaerts | And if it's the seventh year for your org, the same applies :) |
| 11:14.29 | ojwb | if you do well, you've a good chance of taking part in future |
| 11:14.35 | ojwb | if you mess up, less so |
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| 11:15.15 | ojwb | gevaerts: yeah, I bet the learning continues indefinitely |
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| 11:15.27 | ojwb | if not, check your pulse |
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| 11:17.32 | gevaerts | I think that a good mentor is just like a good student proposal |
| 11:17.51 | gevaerts | If the communication skills aren't there, knowing the code is useless :) |
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| 11:45.35 | ojwb | gevaerts: and the best researchers often make poor lecturers |
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| 11:47.13 | gevaerts | nods |
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| 11:49.04 | thebolt | ojwb: during my 5 years at uni i think i only had one, maybe two, professors who were both.. |
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| 12:07.15 | sfb | kai: ping |
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| 12:28.25 | samiran | hi guys do u know what organisation are new to gsoc this time |
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| 12:32.04 | |Kev| | samiran: You should be able to read this year's and last year's lists, and work that out, but there is no pre-collated list afaik. |
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| 12:35.10 | |Kev| | You're very welcome. *sigh* |
| 12:36.32 | ojwb | at least he waited for an answer |
| 12:36.40 | |Kev| | True. |
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| 12:39.00 | |Kev| | I would love to be able to tie nicks here into student names, come application time. |
| 12:39.14 | MatthewWilkes | |Kev|: The link_id is usually similar |
| 12:39.21 | |Kev| | True. |
| 12:39.28 | MatthewWilkes | but, yes, I always search mailing lists and irc or the students too |
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| 12:43.53 | sfb | I love watching the burst of activity after accepted orgs are announced. |
| 12:43.58 | thebolt | :) |
| 12:44.02 | dberkholz | bursts |
| 12:44.11 | sfb | haha |
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| 12:44.24 | |Kev| | dberkholz: Not again :( |
| 12:44.27 | |Kev| | fetches the mop. |
| 12:44.29 | gevaerts | The burst of activity, not the activity of bursting! |
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| 12:46.51 | sfb | Someone can mentor for multiple orgs, right? |
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| 12:47.14 | gevaerts | Yes |
| 12:47.21 | gevaerts | As far as I remember |
| 12:47.30 | sfb | I can't find anything to the contrary on the FAQ. |
| 12:47.58 | sfb | I'm not sure I want to if I can but it'll depend on the student proposals I suppose. |
| 12:48.37 | |Kev| | It sounds like excessive effort. |
| 12:49.03 | gevaerts | It depends. "mentor" can mean many things :) |
| 12:49.22 | |Kev| | Well, true. |
| 12:49.30 | gevaerts | I agree that it's probably not a good idea to mentor two projects, but "mentor" also means "evaluating proposals" |
| 12:49.37 | |Kev| | I mean it in the sense of 'having a student for whom you're primarily responsible' |
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| 12:49.44 | schilly | !meeting |
| 12:49.44 | socinfo | schilly: "meeting" is The IRC meeting for rejected orgs is 16:00 UTC on 22 March in this channel. |
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| 12:50.51 | sfb | |Kev|: Like I said, it depends on the student proposals. |
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| 12:51.24 | sfb | |Kev|: If they're all moderate-to-difficult tasks or students whom I can tell right away will need hand-holding then it'll be just 1. |
| 12:52.04 | |Kev| | I guess other orgs may not do the weekly meetings and teh like that we do. |
| 12:52.15 | |Kev| | Having to attend two lots of those sounds like effort. |
| 12:52.39 | |Kev| | I guess I'm looking from the mentor and helping admin pov. Just mentoring could be ok, as you describe. |
| 12:53.57 | gevaerts | You're in an umbrella. That means it's not straightforward to have an overview without those meetings |
| 12:54.07 | sfb | |Kev|: We had weekly status reports posted to the public forum (and emailed to the org admins) and I had at a minimum semi-daily 15 minute sessions. |
| 12:54.32 | |Kev| | gevaerts: Right, and that's the only org I've experienced mentor/admin with. |
| 12:54.41 | sfb | |Kev|: Which org is that? |
| 12:54.55 | |Kev| | XSF (XMPP) |
| 12:56.31 | gevaerts | In smaller organisations it's not too hard to get a good view of what's going on with all projects by just being reasonably awake |
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| 12:57.07 | |Kev| | We don't have many projects, mind - in terms of slots we're not at all a large umbrella. |
| 12:57.33 | gevaerts | No, but I guess you don't have just one mailing list and irc channel? |
| 12:57.45 | |Kev| | Correct. |
| 12:58.04 | |Kev| | Although we do have one room we encourage all the mentors/students to frequent, to simulate that. |
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| 13:00.00 | dberkholz | sfb: should be fine. i admin for multiple orgs |
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| 13:00.22 | dberkholz | sfb: in my experience, mentoring more than 2 projects is basically impossible unless you've got a full-time job that pays you for it |
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| 13:01.12 | dberkholz | 2 is doable given mentoring experience and students who don't need much handholding, or backup/co-mentors |
| 13:01.19 | bobbens | dberkholz: depends, everyone says how much time they spend mentoring, while I never really remember bothering my mentors much |
| 13:01.46 | dberkholz | bobbens: well, consider that you were probably working on the project full-time so even 4 hrs/week was only 10% of it |
| 13:01.58 | sfb | I'd never take on more than 2. I'd feel like I was cheating my students. |
| 13:02.00 | dberkholz | and yet that can be a significant chunk of a volunteer's available time in a week |
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| 13:02.20 | sfb | But I have one student candidate that I think will be hands off for the simple things and will simply need guidance on design and such. |
| 13:02.28 | sfb | Which I can do off-schedule. |
| 13:02.32 | |Kev| | I took two one year that both ended up being significant investments, and that was very rough. |
| 13:02.48 | sfb | |Kev|: That's my fear about 2. |
| 13:02.52 | |Kev| | Last year I had one student who needed little more than saying "Hi, you ok?" a few times. |
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| 13:03.07 | |Kev| | Two of those would be easy. |
| 13:03.07 | dberkholz | and then he dumped a huge pile of code on you at the end? |
| 13:03.14 | dberkholz | (or she..) |
| 13:03.28 | |Kev| | dberkholz: Well, throughout. |
| 13:03.47 | |Kev| | It's not me that needs to integrate it, though, and it still hasn't been done :/ |
| 13:04.07 | |Kev| | (I mentored for a project I used to run, because the new project lead couldn't spare the time) |
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| 13:16.44 | sfb | |Kev|: We have a lot of unmerged code from OpenNMS' first year in GSoC. |
| 13:16.45 | cm45t3r | Hey everyone! |
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| 13:17.59 | sfb | |Kev|: Last year with Ryzom Core I moved quickly to merge my students code in. |
| 13:18.03 | ankit_ | hello evryone |
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| 13:19.07 | shreyas | hey guys, just an informal pole...how many of u have worked with the same org/mentor twice in a row...or are planning to |
| 13:19.38 | shreyas | poll* |
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| 13:20.15 | gevaerts | shreyas: I'm not sure what you mean. Most mentors don't change org all the time |
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| 13:20.35 | |Kev| | sfb: Right. This year the plan is to very definitely work to integrate ASAP. |
| 13:20.58 | shreyas | i mean the student working with the same mentor/org |
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| 13:21.41 | gevaerts | Right. I'm not a student, si I'll shut up :) |
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| 13:23.03 | bobbens | shreyas: I did |
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| 13:25.25 | |Kev| | I have mentored the same student twice, on different projects within our umbrella. |
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| 13:30.21 | gevaerts | Only 14 organisation profiles left! |
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| 13:58.03 | greedo | that's a lot of part messages |
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| 13:58.43 | kai | sfb: hey there |
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| 14:46.36 | gicmo | anybody from google around that could help me with a linkid issue in melange? |
| 14:47.22 | SukhE | gicmo: Ask in #melange |
| 14:47.22 | shadeslayer | gicmo: try #melange |
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| 14:47.32 | gicmo | ahh thanks ;-) |
| 14:48.23 | mbryant_ | question: is it generally acceptable to submit several different applications to the same organization? |
| 14:48.37 | SRabbelier | SukhE, shadeslayer: feel free to send such questions directly to me |
| 14:48.47 | shadeslayer | okay :D |
| 14:48.50 | SRabbelier | mbryant_: depends on the org, usually, yes, as long as they're on different subjects |
| 14:48.52 | gdamore | mbryant_: it has been in past years, but generally only one could be accepted. |
| 14:48.55 | SukhE | SRabbelier: okay. |
| 14:49.29 | gdamore | multiple applications if there are multiple topics has been considered a way for an enthusiastic student to improve his/her odds of selection. |
| 14:49.50 | mbryant_ | ty :) |
| 14:50.03 | gevaerts | Well, multiple applications are a bad idea if they mean the quality per application goes down |
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| 14:50.38 | |Kev| | If I were seeing multiple apps from the same student, and they were all high quality, I wouldn't think any worse of them, FWIW. |
| 14:51.00 | |Kev| | If they were all poor, I'd just get irritated that they were wasting my time N times over. |
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| 14:53.56 | anth_x | yeah. i think everyone would agree your "odds" are better submitting one outstanding app than five mediocre ones, but five outstanding ones is better than one outstanding one. |
| 14:54.31 | |Kev| | Yep. |
| 14:54.40 | |Kev| | If you have a preference, express it in the application. |
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| 14:54.56 | anth_x | focus on quality first, but if there are multiple ideas you'd really be interested (and capable, &c) in, that gives us more flexibility to match you with a good mentor, look at other proposals, and so on. |
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| 14:55.24 | anth_x | but again (because it's worth repeating) - focus on quality first. |
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| 14:58.28 | pygi | anth_x: writing 5 outstanding apps is hard |
| 14:58.34 | pygi | because its not only about "writing" |
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| 15:00.15 | anth_x | agreed, 5's a lot. but we get several students do 2-3 excellent ones every year. |
| 15:00.24 | SukhE | Two applications is a fair number, imo. The quality doesn't suffer and there is a 'backup'. Also, there can be two projects that you want to work on, with the same preference. |
| 15:01.08 | ojwb | and you a decent application can fail to get accepted due to essentially bad luck |
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| 15:01.39 | ojwb | like the only mentor up for that project is also wanted for several other projects |
| 15:01.45 | anth_x | honestly, depending on what else is going on in your life (finals, &c), two weeks is a lot of time to do a few really strong proposals. |
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| 15:02.08 | anth_x | just don't wait until the last minute. :-) |
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| 15:18.46 | Karlik | hello |
| 15:18.51 | |Kev| | Hello. |
| 15:19.29 | gjoseph | hey there |
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| 15:20.11 | gjoseph | i don't suppose there's any way to get a little insight on why a mentoring org's app was rejected ? |
| 15:20.22 | ojwb | !meeting |
| 15:20.22 | socinfo | ojwb: "meeting" is The IRC meeting for rejected orgs is 16:00 UTC on 22 March in this channel. |
| 15:20.31 | ojwb | gjoseph: try to be here then |
| 15:20.34 | Karlik | Can I stop participating in GSoC after "mid-term" and receive only $2250 or it is requirement to work to the end of GSoC? |
| 15:20.34 | gjoseph | sweet, thanks |
| 15:20.47 | |Kev| | Karlik: You should work the whole summer. |
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| 15:21.03 | |Kev| | Deliberately dropping out is cheating the system somewhat. |
| 15:21.26 | ojwb | gjoseph: if you can't make that, you can mail carols, but she's kind of busy so it's easier if you can |
| 15:21.52 | ojwb | plus you may pick up tips from hearing the feedback the other orgs get |
| 15:22.08 | gjoseph | ojwb: great - yeah i should be able to make it, thanks a lot |
| 15:22.24 | Karlik | |Kev|: I don't want to cheat, so if it is impossible to work only June/July I won't apply ;] |
| 15:22.49 | |Kev| | A shame you can't apply, but that sounds like it's for the best. |
| 15:22.52 | SRabbelier | ojwb: feedback is only optionally public btw |
| 15:23.00 | sfb | Karlik: If it was allowed I still doubt that a mentoring org would choose to fill a student slot for half time when they have full time student proposals as options. |
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| 15:23.34 | David_Honeynet | Karlik: orgs want students to complete full projects, so planning to only complete half stops another student from doing all of GSoC and the community getting greatest benefit |
| 15:24.00 | ojwb | SRabbelier: true, though I got the impression it was preferred to be in general |
| 15:24.08 | gjoseph | (and you would probably not get hired for a fulltime position if you're planning to resign after 3 months) |
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| 15:24.36 | SRabbelier | ojwb: true |
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| 15:25.00 | samiran | I have exam in between (1 week) ll I be accepted |
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| 15:26.09 | eoc | if you are open about this towards your organization and offer ways to compensate this time (when applying) I see no problem. but this may depend on the actual task. |
| 15:26.19 | wtachi | samiran: most likely yes; talk to the org, mention it in your application, and maybe promise to start a week early |
| 15:26.20 | eoc | deadlines cannot be extended forwards. |
| 15:26.24 | Karlik | The fact I don't want to resign from project but I'd prefer to work in September. However I understand the problem, thanks for answers ;) |
| 15:27.45 | SukhE | samiran: If you tell your org you are not going to be working for a week, that should be fine. But don't just sneak away without informing them :-) |
| 15:27.45 | samiran | thanks for suggestion |
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| 15:40.18 | ojwb | gevaerts: 13 |
| 15:41.31 | gevaerts | accuses ojwb of confusing him! |
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| 15:52.38 | cm45t3r | Any Mentor here from Processing.org? |
| 15:52.48 | ojwb | !anyone |
| 15:52.49 | socinfo | ojwb: "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. Try searching for the org's contact info or even just try a /join #<mentoring org here> |
| 15:52.54 | ojwb | cm45t3r: ^ |
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| 15:54.27 | SRabbelier | ojwb: someone should teach the bot to understand "target: !anyone" |
| 15:55.03 | ojwb | SRabbelier: I've had similar thoughts |
| 15:55.25 | SRabbelier | ojwb: it's probably written in perl though, :P |
| 15:55.34 | ojwb | python I believe |
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| 15:55.59 | ojwb | seems kblin is running it now |
| 15:56.30 | SRabbelier | kblin: ping |
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| 16:16.42 | tty1 | !meeting |
| 16:16.42 | socinfo | tty1: "meeting" is The IRC meeting for rejected orgs is 16:00 UTC on 22 March in this channel. |
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| 16:18.46 | cm45t3r | !next |
| 16:18.47 | socinfo | cm45t3r: "next" is March 18-27: Would-be student participants discuss application ideas with mentoring organizations. |
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| 16:26.17 | Deon | hi i am mobile developer and web developer i own appmunki LLC at appmunki.com is anyone looking for a student in mobile |
| 16:26.37 | eoc | !anyone |
| 16:26.37 | socinfo | eoc: "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. Try searching for the org's contact info or even just try a /join #<mentoring org here> |
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| 16:30.06 | brlcad | wonders how 'most' students go about searching for orgs and projects to work on |
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| 16:31.37 | brlcad | we tell them to contact the org, but how is random student X supposed to search through the 175 orgs for "the right one" .. tags? google search? go down the list one at a time for several hours? |
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| 16:32.05 | gevaerts | All of those I guess |
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| 16:33.30 | MatthewWilkes | lh! |
| 16:33.41 | lh | MatthewWilkes: hello matthew, how are you? :) |
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| 16:33.56 | brlcad | the big well-known projects aren't really going to have a problem with students finding them, so I suppose it's more of an issue for 'relatively' smaller org getting their word out |
| 16:34.14 | brlcad | hugs lh, hi! |
| 16:34.15 | chinthaka | I installed apache server and php |
| 16:34.17 | MatthewWilkes | lh: I'm currently trying to deal with three different countries' central tax offices - how does it sound? ;) |
| 16:34.29 | chinthaka | I need to copy a php file to www folder |
| 16:34.33 | lh | brlcad: hello my friend, how are you? |
| 16:34.36 | lh | returns hugs |
| 16:34.46 | MatthewWilkes | lh: How's you? :P |
| 16:34.48 | lh | MatthewWilkes: that sounds like the 7th circle of hell, with no chocolate |
| 16:34.48 | chinthaka | but it doesn't allow to paste it in the www folder |
| 16:34.55 | lh | MatthewWilkes: wonderful, thank you. |
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| 16:35.02 | chinthaka | can anyone help me please |
| 16:35.13 | brlcad | lh: doing quite well, just got back from scotland yesterday .. fantastic vacation |
| 16:35.24 | MatthewWilkes | lh: If I can convince the UK that I'm substantially a british taxpayer rather than a german or norwegian tax payer it saves be about 15000 Euro |
| 16:35.25 | lh | brlcad: oooo, jealous |
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| 16:35.45 | lh | MatthewWilkes: does that take a nice letter or some more onerous means to convince them |
| 16:35.58 | lh | brlcad: how long were you abroad? |
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| 16:36.15 | brlcad | lh: a little over a week |
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| 16:36.30 | MatthewWilkes | lh: It takes an application form and details of pretty much everything I do - currently trying to get my university to write them a letter telling them how many thousands of pounds the british government has invested in me |
| 16:38.26 | mlankhorst | morning |
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| 16:39.01 | eoc | brlcad: well, I can only speak for our organization, but we are a newcomer this year and already had more than 15 interested students in the past days for at most 4 slots Â… seems reasonable to spend a few hours on this list to determine who gets 12+ weeks of your full attention as a student |
| 16:39.31 | eoc | the advertising done by orgs should happen on thei ideas page imho :) |
| 16:39.49 | |Kev| | eoc: I don't believe that's enough for a smaller org. |
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| 16:40.03 | gevaerts | Or here! <subliminal_message>Rockbox!</subliminal_message> |
| 16:40.05 | |Kev| | Students won't read ideas pages unless they have a reason to look at that org. |
| 16:40.13 | mlankhorst | haha |
| 16:40.42 | |Kev| | Well, maybe some small orgs are cooler than others :) |
| 16:41.01 | mlankhorst | didn't have much success on android ;p |
| 16:41.06 | gevaerts | We are, yes! :) |
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| 16:41.17 | gangil- | brlcad, which org? |
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| 16:42.06 | brlcad | eoc: it's how they get to and/or find your ideas page in the first place |
| 16:42.23 | brlcad | mind you, not a new question -- this comes up every year and the guide even covers several suggestions |
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| 16:42.36 | brlcad | just doesn't feel like it's fully answered to me |
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| 16:43.02 | brlcad | gangil: what do you mean "which org"? |
| 16:43.08 | |Kev| | brlcad: It's an ongoing question that isn't specific to GSoC, I think. |
| 16:44.08 | brlcad | if "advertising" is the answer, then so be it, but advertising is predominantly word of mouth for most smaller open source orgs |
| 16:44.29 | eoc | each kind of decision helper that is provided adds even more information hailing down on students, so extending the central info provided is not viable imho, it won't help a lot |
| 16:44.39 | gangil | brlcad, which organisation are you associated with? I am a student just curious :) |
| 16:44.56 | brlcad | |Kev|: certainly, but GSoC is uniquely competitive where visibility matters, otherwise most open source projects can scratch their own itch in quiet solidarity |
| 16:45.11 | |Kev| | brlcad: Yes. |
| 16:45.14 | blast007 | gangil: BRL-CAD |
| 16:46.05 | brlcad | what he said ;) |
| 16:46.23 | brlcad | blast007, filled up my hard drive with that bzflag source history visualization :) |
| 16:46.31 | blast007 | heh |
| 16:46.45 | brlcad | pretty awesome |
| 16:46.55 | blast007 | time to get a bigger drive then ;) |
| 16:47.02 | gangil | wasnt obv. to me from the nick , was unaware of it. thanks :) |
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| 16:47.17 | gangil | s/obv./obvious |
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| 16:47.55 | brlcad | gangil: my point exactly, and BRL-CAD is one of the "medium-sized" open source orgs at that |
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| 16:48.15 | gevaerts | nods |
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| 16:48.27 | gevaerts | Name recognition isn't a given in this world |
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| 16:48.41 | gangil | brlcad, IMHO students search organisations on the basis of their field of interests |
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| 16:49.14 | gevaerts | gangil: yes, but how do they do that? |
| 16:49.29 | gangil | brlcad, then they find out all the organisations working in the particular field. |
| 16:49.48 | gevaerts | I mean, what's the best way for an unknown organisation to make sure that student finds them if they're in that field? |
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| 16:50.00 | gangil | gevaerts, simply whats interests you like its network security for some, computer graphics for others and so on |
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| 16:50.22 | kai | SRabbelier: pong |
| 16:50.51 | gevaerts | gangil: yes, that's clear, but it doesn't answer my question :) |
| 16:50.52 | blast007 | gangil: but is there a way to easily determine that without looking at every single organization on the list? |
| 16:50.58 | ojwb | I think the best thing you can do for visibility is to call your org something like "Aardvarks Anonymous" |
| 16:51.08 | dis | hey guys |
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| 16:51.27 | kai | SRabbelier: it's a supybot, if you can figure out how to make the factoid wildcards work with a target, I'm happy to set up the config accordingly |
| 16:51.40 | gangil | gevaerts, I am a student, what I do id, go to the list of organisations, then use "Search tags" on the google-melange.com |
| 16:51.42 | dis | Is it true that being a mentor does not require any kind of paperwork and the official things with Google are done online via Melange ? |
| 16:51.43 | kai | I couldn't find anything when I last checked |
| 16:51.45 | SRabbelier | kai: where's the source? |
| 16:51.58 | SRabbelier | dis: yes |
| 16:52.05 | kai | I got it by saying aptitude install supybot |
| 16:52.05 | gevaerts | ojwb: I don't have numbers, but over the years I always get the impression that whatever project happens to be first in our ideas list is most popular :) |
| 16:52.10 | SRabbelier | kai: then.. how are you running it? |
| 16:52.14 | SRabbelier | kai: ah |
| 16:52.16 | gangil | gevaerts, now its upto the student to checkout the orgs concerned |
| 16:52.18 | ojwb | gevaerts: I was just about to say that... |
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| 16:52.33 | ojwb | to the extent that I'm wondering about moving it down to see if that changes |
| 16:52.54 | SRabbelier | kai: did you use the googles? |
| 16:52.54 | kai | SRabbelier: and by I couldn't find it when last I checked I meant the targetted factoids |
| 16:52.58 | gevaerts | gangil: ok, so a lot of tags with all variants of what an organisation does is the answer I guess? |
| 16:53.02 | SRabbelier | kai: http://sourceforge.net/projects/supybot/files/ |
| 16:53.04 | dis | SRabbelier: thanks |
| 16:53.10 | SRabbelier | kai: ah, :) |
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| 16:53.35 | gangil | gevaerts, for me, yes it is. And I think most of students go on to target orgs in the same fashion. |
| 16:53.36 | kai | SRabbelier: in my IRC, my line actually goes first and makes the sense I want it to have :) |
| 16:54.04 | gangil | gevaerts, tags must cover all the project ideas I think. |
| 16:54.09 | SRabbelier | kai: so, can you run a modified version? |
| 16:54.19 | sfb | We use Supybot in Ryzom Core. It's nice to have a feed into our channel of wiki edits, forum posts and commits. |
| 16:54.49 | SRabbelier | kai: otherwise it's not much use for me ot go hack it |
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| 16:56.41 | kai | SRabbelier: I can look into running a modified version, but maybe it's easier to find a bot that can do targetted factoids already |
| 16:56.58 | kai | I just used a supybot because that's what danderson was running before |
| 16:57.19 | kai | mithro: what's mbot doing these days? :) |
| 16:57.35 | SRabbelier | kai: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots/+bug/342728 |
| 16:57.44 | SRabbelier | kai: looks like ubuntu's bot can already do this |
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| 16:59.01 | kai | ok, I'll have to look into that |
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| 16:59.19 | kai | but first I need to catch a bus |
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| 16:59.33 | kai | hides and makes diesel sounds |
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| 17:00.34 | SRabbelier | kai: gl! :) |
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| 17:13.02 | Deon | I am looking into a company that would let me do something with sentiment anaylsis i looked into a lot of the companies without much luck anyone see a company doing language anaylsis |
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| 17:13.30 | gevaerts | You mean "organisation"? |
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| 17:14.53 | Deon | company or organization |
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| 17:30.46 | conner_bw | !meeting |
| 17:30.46 | socinfo | conner_bw: "meeting" is The IRC meeting for rejected orgs is 16:00 UTC on 22 March in this channel. |
| 17:30.58 | conner_bw | Woops, wrong date. |
| 17:31.11 | conner_bw | And late... |
| 17:31.20 | conner_bw | ...or early? |
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| 17:33.20 | piyush_goyal | hey it may sound silly.......... |
| 17:33.52 | piyush_goyal | but pls can u tell me that on an avg. how many projects get accepted in gsoc |
| 17:34.19 | piyush_goyal | and what if i submit an application for a project that gets rejected later on |
| 17:34.21 | piyush_goyal | ? |
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| 17:37.47 | conner_bw | 175 were accepted, 417 were submitted... Roughly 40% |
| 17:37.59 | |Kev| | !odds |
| 17:37.59 | socinfo | |Kev|: "odds" is Odds, chances or probability really do not come into play for GSoC. Rambling off numbers or asking What are the odds of getting accepted... is really quite useless as one's acceptance is not dictated by luck or numbers, but by the quality of your proposal and your skills instead. |
| 17:38.03 | conner_bw | Posted on their blog: http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2011/03/mentoring-organizations-for-google.html |
| 17:38.17 | wtachi | piyush_goyal: do you mean organizations (e.g. GNU) or project ideas? |
| 17:38.43 | conner_bw | Wow, what an "odd" way to say 60% of the proposals were garbage.... |
| 17:39.26 | piyush_goyal | wtachi:i mean project ideas |
| 17:40.03 | |Kev| | Project ideas are not accepted/rejected for GSoC. |
| 17:40.18 | |Kev| | A student makes an application based upon an idea, and *that* is accepted or rejected. |
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| 17:40.50 | protoss_Z | could I see a sample proposal/idea? |
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| 17:40.57 | conner_bw | Wait, so !odds is for students or mentor organizations? |
| 17:40.59 | piyush_goyal | u mean poject ideas are not accepted or rejected? |
| 17:41.10 | |Kev| | conner_bw: Either or both. |
| 17:41.37 | wtachi | if you make up your own project idea, talk to the organization to find out whether they like it |
| 17:42.21 | wtachi | it you use their ideas list, the project will probably be good, and they will consider the rest of your proposal |
| 17:42.26 | wtachi | but talk to the organization anyway |
| 17:42.34 | piyush_goyal | i am talking about submitting the application on their idea itself |
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| 17:42.56 | piyush_goyal | ok |
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| 17:43.13 | wtachi | then you just have to convince them you can complete it |
| 17:43.23 | piyush_goyal | alright |
| 17:43.27 | piyush_goyal | thanx a lot |
| 17:43.33 | piyush_goyal | now i am clear with it |
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| 17:44.32 | ankit_ | hey when u apply for any organisation for some of the projects they are offering do they see if you exactly amtch their technical requirement or some deviations may exist? |
| 17:44.46 | |Kev| | !goodenough |
| 17:44.46 | socinfo | |Kev|: "goodenough" is Am I good enough to be a student for GSoC? http://www.booki.cc/gsocstudentguide/_v/1.0/am-i-good-enough/ |
| 17:44.51 | wtachi | ankit_: it varies. Talk to the organization. |
| 17:44.51 | |Kev| | ankit_: ^ |
| 17:45.05 | ankit_ | okay |
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| 17:45.27 | ankit_ | so how much do we need to know in terms of technical aspect? |
| 17:45.43 | wtachi | ankit_: same answer |
| 17:45.50 | conner_bw | be back tomorrow. |
| 17:45.53 | |Kev| | You should be able to look at the project you want to do, and think "I can do that". |
| 17:45.54 | ankit_ | ok thankx :) |
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| 17:45.57 | conner_bw | for !meeting |
| 17:46.02 | conner_bw | cheers. |
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| 18:15.45 | conner_bw | !odds |
| 18:15.46 | socinfo | conner_bw: "odds" is Odds, chances or probability really do not come into play for GSoC. Rambling off numbers or asking What are the odds of getting accepted... is really quite useless as one's acceptance is not dictated by luck or numbers, but by the quality of your proposal and your skills instead. |
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| 18:17.35 | TimeXerox | hello |
| 18:17.44 | TimeXerox | is this the gsoc irc channel |
| 18:17.49 | TimeXerox | this is my first time using irc |
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| 18:18.39 | nickbarnes | yes, this is the gsoc channel. |
| 18:18.56 | nickbarnes | odd how some projects revolve around IRC and others never use it. |
| 18:19.05 | Vikash | Welcome to IRC TimeXerox ... Have a pleasant stay... |
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| 18:21.14 | TimeXerox | is there anyone interested in LLVM GSOC this year ? |
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| 18:32.28 | cm45t3r | !odd |
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| 19:56.13 | ahel | !next |
| 19:56.13 | socinfo | ahel: "next" is March 18-27: Would-be student participants discuss application ideas with mentoring organizations. |
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| 20:12.57 | Vikash | good night everyone |
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| 20:19.50 | sfb | kblin: Have a fwe mins now? |
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| 20:26.45 | bellBaglio | hey guys! |
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| 20:27.12 | CrawfordComeaux | Is it kosher for a mentor org to capitalize on a student's project? ie. if a student develops a mobile app or a component of one, can we then sell it? |
| 20:27.43 | Dark_Shikari | I'm pretty sure that's fine; "free software" doesn't mean you can't commercialize it. |
| 20:28.10 | |Kev| | CrawfordComeaux: If the student gives it to you under an appropriate license, yes. |
| 20:28.30 | CrawfordComeaux | That's what I figured, but boss wanted confirmation :) |
| 20:28.54 | gevaerts | CrawfordComeaux: I'd say you should make sure the student understands this from the start |
| 20:28.59 | |Kev| | My project is dual-licensed GPL + commercial (well, bits are), so any student contributions would have to come in BSD to allow us to do this. |
| 20:29.48 | |Kev| | It'd be fairly low to have a student develop an entire app, and for you to then sell it without sharing royalties, but if they're contributing a small part, and they understand the licensing, I would say this was morally acceptable (they're getting paid for doing it, after all). |
| 20:30.03 | Dark_Shikari | |Kev|: Or you can have them sign the contributor license agreement |
| 20:30.15 | Dark_Shikari | Like, for example, the GNU does. |
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| 20:30.24 | Dark_Shikari | My project is dual-licensed GPL+commercial as well |
| 20:30.30 | CrawfordComeaux | gevaerts: oh absolutely...we'd probably establish a revenue stream for the student to receive on-going compensation |
| 20:30.32 | |Kev| | Sure, there are different ways of doing it. |
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| 20:30.44 | gevaerts | The main thing is to be open about it, and to have the paperwork in order |
| 20:31.12 | schumaml | CrawfordComeaux: which org is this, btw? |
| 20:31.22 | CrawfordComeaux | schumaml: FiberCorps |
| 20:31.28 | gevaerts | After all that, *I* wouldn't sign up as a student, but maybe I would have when I was student-aged :) |
| 20:32.12 | CrawfordComeaux | gevaerts: the initial development would be coming from the student, so I think we'd be able to streamline the process to work with them |
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| 20:34.27 | gevaerts | is more of a free software than an open source person |
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| 20:42.34 | protoss_Z | Can two people work on the same suggested project? |
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| 20:43.22 | gevaerts | protoss_Z: as a team? no |
| 20:43.43 | gevaerts | Well, that's the short answer. Ask |Kev| about the workaround :) |
| 20:43.53 | sfb | protoss_Z: Each students work has to be an independent work. If there's a larger "project" which could be subdivided into two student projects then maybe. |
| 20:44.06 | sfb | protoss_Z: But having two students dependent on each other for success is just risky. |
| 20:44.08 | |Kev| | Gee thanks, I got in enough muddle last time I tried to explain it :p |
| 20:44.08 | protoss_Z | gevaerts: No, I mean if two people both submit similar project proposals and work (not necessarily together) on the same thing |
| 20:44.21 | |Kev| | Duplication is explicitly allowed by the FAQ. |
| 20:44.25 | gevaerts | Ah, competing as it were? Yes, that's allowed |
| 20:44.49 | Myth17 | |Kev|, how many students on average get selected for an organisation? |
| 20:44.51 | gevaerts | |Kev|: exactly! I don't want to end up in that same muddle :) |
| 20:44.56 | Dark_Shikari | That's a very vague question |
| 20:45.00 | Dark_Shikari | organization sizes differ wildly |
| 20:45.03 | gevaerts | Myth17: 6, but that's a useless number |
| 20:45.04 | |Kev| | !odds |
| 20:45.04 | socinfo | |Kev|: "odds" is Odds, chances or probability really do not come into play for GSoC. Rambling off numbers or asking What are the odds of getting accepted... is really quite useless as one's acceptance is not dictated by luck or numbers, but by the quality of your proposal and your skills instead. |
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| 20:45.21 | |Kev| | I think the same thing applies to working out average org sizes :) |
| 20:45.23 | nickbarnes | Myth17: the Climate Code Foundation wouldn't be able to cope with 6 students. |
| 20:45.27 | nickbarnes | 3 or 4 max. |
| 20:45.30 | gevaerts | Well, 6.84 to be precise :) |
| 20:45.34 | Myth17 | hmmm |
| 20:45.37 | Dark_Shikari | No, no, you see, it turns out that you have to make a DC 25 CHA check to get accepted. |
| 20:45.40 | Dark_Shikari | Go roll your dice now! |
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| 20:45.51 | nickbarnes | orgs can specify to Google how many "slots" they want. |
| 20:46.12 | |Kev| | nickbarnes: Yes, but as I understand this is used largely only as an upper limit. |
| 20:46.21 | nickbarnes | Yes, I think so. |
| 20:46.25 | gevaerts | Myth17: hm, there's a page about this somewhere |
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| 20:47.00 | |Kev| | Given the number of students we've had coming along already, compared to previous years, who seem competent, and the number of slots we usually get, I imagine we're going to end up requesting far more slots than we end up receiving this year. |
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| 20:47.43 | Myth17 | can we ask the community members to read and review our application before we submit it finally? |
| 20:48.00 | Myth17 | i read somewhere we could do it and thus applying early helps |
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| 20:48.56 | nickbarnes | we've got about 15 possible students already; I've set up a mailing list; I guess sorting the wheat from the chaff is going to be non-trivial |
| 20:49.08 | nickbarnes | but it's good to have choice, right? |
| 20:49.42 | Dark_Shikari | 1) reject all students who don't come on irc by the application deadline |
| 20:49.48 | Dark_Shikari | bam, you're down to half the number |
| 20:51.51 | |Kev| | I've had students *asking* for pre-SoC tasks this year. That's never happened to me before. |
| 20:52.13 | Dark_Shikari | That's good too. Helps narrow it down further and reduce odds of failure. |
| 20:53.02 | |Kev| | Yeah. |
| 20:53.14 | |Kev| | Had to put up http://swift.im/gsoc.html in a hurry this evening. |
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| 20:54.53 | kakazza | Heh, we had people submitting patches to our project already. :D |
| 20:55.44 | kakazza | First message to mailinglist "Hi, I want to...", second message "btw. I fixed this for you". |
| 20:56.25 | drt24 | :-) |
| 20:56.41 | Dark_Shikari | Our most recent set of mailing list messages is someone spamming patches to add OS/2 support. |
| 20:56.41 | gevaerts | Your bugs clearly aren't obscure enough! |
| 20:56.52 | Dark_Shikari | .... I'm still not sure what to think about them |
| 20:57.38 | kakazza | Dark_Shikari, haha. You'd wonder how many times people ask for OS/2 support in other projects. |
| 20:57.56 | kakazza | gevaerts, yeah ;( |
| 20:58.09 | |Kev| | When I was running the Psi project (an XMPP client), someone was maintaining an OS/2 fork. |
| 20:58.12 | |Kev| | Scared the life out of me :) |
| 20:58.19 | Dark_Shikari | I still can't understand why OS/2 is still around. |
| 20:58.25 | kakazza | me neither |
| 20:58.30 | Dark_Shikari | And I don't know if I'm supposed to accept these patches |
| 20:58.38 | Dark_Shikari | Or tell them "Much like the Pentium 1, your OS isn't supported anymore" |
| 20:58.57 | drt24 | I suspect that OS/2 is still used by some big companies |
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| 21:00.22 | kakazza | Yeah, but sometimes it seems for a of a personal thing. The lengths people will go to run a program are amazing. |
| 21:00.54 | drt24 | indeed :-) |
| 22:54.12 | *** join/#gsoc ibot (~ibot@rikers.org) |
| 22:54.12 | *** topic/#gsoc is Welcome to Google Summer of Code 2011! Mentoring organizations are announced: http://goo.gl/VcRUV. Please read the FAQs - http://goo.gl/Up2Qf and the Timeline - http://goo.gl/0lYPz for more info. |
| 22:55.06 | Kaz | I found this project out today as being told by a friend. Is it possible for an A-level student to get a position on this project? |
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| 22:55.38 | SRabbelier | !goodenough |
| 22:55.38 | socinfo | SRabbelier: "goodenough" is Am I good enough to be a student for GSoC? http://www.booki.cc/gsocstudentguide/_v/1.0/am-i-good-enough/ |
| 22:55.38 | hartem | Kaz: sorry, which project are you asking about? |
| 22:56.05 | Kaz | This is about the google summer of code isnt it? |
| 22:56.20 | Kaz | yeah, the GSOC* |
| 22:56.21 | Kaz | sorry |
| 22:56.42 | Kaz | Thanks for the link |
| 22:56.53 | hartem | Kaz: ah, ok, I thought you were asking about some particular organisation |
| 22:56.55 | SRabbelier | Kaz: np |
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| 23:05.05 | ojwb | Kaz: note that you need to be enrolled or accepted into university though (not sure if an A level student would be at this point or not) |
| 23:05.06 | nickbarnes | Kaz: http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2011/faqs#eligibility |
| 23:05.39 | Kaz | Ahh thanks. Thats a shame |
| 23:05.51 | nickbarnes | next year, or the year after? |
| 23:05.56 | Kaz | At the time I would be 17 |
| 23:06.01 | Kaz | University for me is next year |
| 23:06.35 | nickbarnes | but GSoC is still a good opportunity to find out about cool projects which are out there. |
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| 23:06.41 | nickbarnes | contribute a bit unpaid. |
| 23:06.42 | tigreton | hi |
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| 23:07.20 | Kaz | I guess. Ill have a look around :) |
| 23:07.25 | *** join/#gsoc saksham2 (~Saksham@180.215.159.116) |
| 23:07.43 | nickbarnes | som projects may have other sources of funding which don't have an age limitation. |
| 23:07.48 | nickbarnes | s/som/some/ |
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| 23:08.42 | saksham2 | fd |
| 23:08.46 | Kaz | Will they be shown on the individual project information? |
| 23:08.51 | nickbarnes | no. |
| 23:08.59 | nickbarnes | find projects which interest you. |
| 23:09.00 | *** join/#gsoc fisted (~fisted@unaffiliated/fisted) |
| 23:09.06 | nickbarnes | join the communities for those projects. |
| 23:09.21 | nickbarnes | get to know the key people |
| 23:09.26 | nickbarnes | read code, write patches |
| 23:09.31 | SRabbelier | !elegible |
| 23:09.37 | SRabbelier | !elegibility |
| 23:09.41 | nickbarnes | you mean !eligible |
| 23:09.43 | SRabbelier | hmph |
| 23:09.44 | nickbarnes | I hope. |
| 23:09.50 | SRabbelier | !eligible |
| 23:09.50 | socinfo | SRabbelier: "eligible" is Follow this handy flowchart to see if you are eligible http://goo.gl/kvCSv (text version at http://goo.gl/ImfNT) |
| 23:09.59 | SRabbelier | nickbarnes: spelling fail, thanks |
| 23:10.05 | SRabbelier | Kaz: ^ |
| 23:10.10 | SRabbelier | Kaz: flowchart, I made it! :P |
| 23:10.17 | Kaz | Okay thanks. |
| 23:10.22 | Kaz | Nice work ;) |
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| 23:12.27 | thebolt | morning |
| 23:12.45 | tigreton | ey, i'm eligible! :) |
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| 23:12.55 | lstdgtfp | !odds |
| 23:12.55 | socinfo | lstdgtfp: "odds" is Odds, chances or probability really do not come into play for GSoC. Rambling off numbers or asking What are the odds of getting accepted... is really quite useless as one's acceptance is not dictated by luck or numbers, but by the quality of your proposal and your skills instead. |
| 23:13.00 | SRabbelier | tigreton: did you use teh flowchart? :D |
| 23:13.18 | tigreton | yes, of course!!! haha |
| 23:13.34 | tigreton | the @'s are google employees? what a job!!! |
| 23:13.35 | tigreton | haha |
| 23:13.35 | Kaz | I think I finished that flow chart pretty early on ;). Im especially intersested in creating games. You're saying if I get active within communities, I have a chance for developing them that way? |
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| 23:13.57 | tigreton | kaz, yes, they accept your idea |
| 23:14.05 | tigreton | or not ;) |
| 23:14.14 | Kaz | :P |
| 23:14.44 | bobbens | developing yes, getting paid for it is another matter |
| 23:14.53 | ojwb | tigreton: not all the ops are google employees |
| 23:14.54 | tigreton | jajaja bobbens |
| 23:15.17 | tigreton | ojwb, but at least 1, no? jaja. I'm sure he is playing now pinball |
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| 23:15.38 | Kaz | The pay isn't what i've been interested in. It's the experience and something also to add to my cv |
| 23:15.40 | ojwb | at least 3 are, that I know of |
| 23:15.49 | bobbens | tigreton: you're spanish eh? :) |
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| 23:16.03 | tigreton | ooo thanks ojwb hehe, and do you know if they/you are playing it? |
| 23:16.13 | tigreton | bobbens, whoising me? or my bad english? |
| 23:16.22 | bobbens | Kaz: open source experienienc is always nice on your cv, but it's generally hard to put under either education or "work experience" as it's officially neither |
| 23:16.27 | bobbens | tigreton: "jaja" :) |
| 23:16.35 | tigreton | aaaah sorry, i forgot |
| 23:16.39 | tigreton | *haha |
| 23:16.44 | bobbens | well I'm from barcelona, so no problem :) |
| 23:16.47 | tigreton | i'm speaking with a friend too |
| 23:16.51 | tigreton | aaaa |
| 23:16.56 | tigreton | es que te veo de lithuania |
| 23:17.02 | tigreton | y digo pues... no le digo nada jaja |
| 23:17.04 | tigreton | *haha |
| 23:17.11 | SRabbelier | tigreton: some, not all |
| 23:17.26 | tigreton | some playing pinball, or some from google? |
| 23:17.27 | Kaz | I guess. I was trying to decide if making a portfolio or having contributing to a project would be better |
| 23:17.37 | tigreton | are u designer kaz? |
| 23:17.38 | bobbens | tigreton: not all from barcelona he meant, as in no spanish :) |
| 23:17.47 | SRabbelier | tigreton: the latter |
| 23:17.48 | tigreton | aaaah okok |
| 23:17.50 | Kaz | No, I develop |
| 23:17.53 | bobbens | Kaz: don't underestimate experience |
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| 23:18.02 | tigreton | rabbelier hehe okok |
| 23:18.04 | bobbens | even if it doesn't go on your CV, experience is good |
| 23:18.08 | bobbens | and it shows later |
| 23:18.19 | tigreton | and they can see your work easily |
| 23:18.29 | ojwb | Kaz: many open source projects are probably up for mentoring outside of gsoc too - e.g. http://www.valdyas.org/fading/index.cgi/kde/gsoc2011_misconceptions.html |
| 23:18.42 | tigreton | now, the "gurus" say the new cv is github jaja |
| 23:19.57 | SRabbelier | Kaz, bobbens: why should you have to list it under "education" or "work experience"? |
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| 23:20.10 | SRabbelier | Kaz, bobbens: just put it on your CV, no need for fancy headers |
| 23:20.11 | tigreton | isn't it? |
| 23:20.39 | bobbens | SRabbelier: depends how you do it, but when applying for grants and suche sometimes they make you use normalized CV |
| 23:20.45 | bobbens | which tend to use both those categories |
| 23:20.59 | bobbens | has been doing a lot of paperwork lately and hates it |
| 23:21.13 | tigreton | nice link that ojwb |
| 23:21.54 | SRabbelier | bobbens: I put my Git work under work experience, so what if it's not paid work :) |
| 23:22.08 | Kaz | Just read the link, thanks. It was quite interesting |
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| 23:22.37 | bobbens | SRabbelier: well I do it a bit differently, I put it other places, just because of the bloody normalized CV :) |
| 23:22.46 | tigreton | haha |
| 23:22.47 | bobbens | but it depends on what type of CV you're doing and such |
| 23:22.53 | tigreton | and the "new" european cv is... |
| 23:22.59 | SRabbelier | bobbens: I suppose |
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| 23:23.08 | tigreton | and i love designer's cv hehe |
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| 23:23.52 | bobbens | too many interesting projects this year, humph |
| 23:24.39 | lstdgtfp | I've got a question: I have been lurking in the IRC channel for a GSOC project that I'm thinking of joining. I had planned on creating a proposal to work on on of the things on their ideas page, but I've noticed that it seems like a lot of people are already interested in it, and some are even starting to work on it. Do you think that it's a good idea to write a proposal for it anyway, or should I try to find something else? (sorry for |
| 23:25.07 | amstan | lstdgtfp: this is irc.. keep lines shorter, they're easier to read |
| 23:25.13 | lstdgtfp | k |
| 23:25.17 | tigreton | jaja, but dont press enter too fast |
| 23:25.29 | brlcad | lstdgtfp: it's a tough call, talk to the org |
| 23:25.29 | amstan | lstdgtfp: if you're interested, why not try? i don't think there's too much to lose |
| 23:25.44 | bobbens | lstdgtfp: choose 3 of your favorite projects and just work on that |
| 23:25.45 | lstdgtfp | I've been told that a good proposal takes about a week |
| 23:26.01 | bobbens | depends on the project and how many hours you put in a day :) |
| 23:26.07 | lstdgtfp | I don't want to waste time that I don't really have any chance on |
| 23:26.10 | tigreton | it's ok you can do that proposal, but do it to 1 more |
| 23:26.11 | lstdgtfp | (I've read !odds) |
| 23:26.26 | bobbens | well from my experience |
| 23:26.32 | bobbens | the ones you think you'll get accepted in, you won't |
| 23:26.37 | bobbens | and the ones you think you won't, you will |
| 23:26.37 | brlcad | lstdgtfp: our org generally discourages multiple applications for the same topic if we already have two or three well-developed proposals ... at which point we suggest at least submitting two applications in case we like the individual but are overloaded for that particular project |
| 23:26.46 | lstdgtfp | I'm a full-time student, so I don't have many free hours each day :) |
| 23:27.07 | brlcad | which fortunately, we don't yet have that problem this year -- lots of room for students to show their feathres :) |
| 23:27.11 | SRabbelier | lstdgtfp: definitely talk to your org |
| 23:27.15 | bobbens | lstdgtfp: you're still sleeping aren't you? :) |
| 23:27.25 | brlcad | and eating |
| 23:27.26 | lstdgtfp | bobbens: huh? |
| 23:27.32 | tigreton | haha |
| 23:27.34 | bobbens | brlcad: it's still young, most orgs didn't have it filled out 2 days ago :) |
| 23:27.46 | SRabbelier | lstdgtfp: but, if there's another project that you're interested in that is not getting as much attention, it'd be to everyone's benefit if you applied to that one instead |
| 23:27.58 | bobbens | lstdgtfp: sleep less :) |
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| 23:28.08 | lstdgtfp | oh :) |
| 23:28.24 | tigreton | that's one of my question, how i know how many people requested that project? |
| 23:28.26 | lstdgtfp | SRabbelier: thanks |
| 23:29.02 | bobbens | and don't start writing a proposal until you see their template |
| 23:29.12 | brlcad | tigreton: it really shouldn't matter, but if you're communicating with that project, they'd let you know if it was a concern |
| 23:29.18 | lstdgtfp | bobbens: good point |
| 23:29.21 | bobbens | 3 years ago nobody used templates, now they have strict templates |
| 23:29.22 | SRabbelier | tigreton: keep an eye out on irc and mailing list |
| 23:29.32 | bobbens | I remember last year I wrote 2 proposals I had to scratch because of templates :) |
| 23:29.34 | bobbens | not fun :P |
| 23:30.03 | tigreton | srabbelier can you send me that mailing list? or wichone i must join? |
| 23:30.18 | SRabbelier | tigreton: how would I know what mailing list you want to join |
| 23:30.26 | tigreton | haha |
| 23:30.34 | tigreton | okok, i understand now, or not |
| 23:30.35 | brlcad | the problem is orgs really want to see the creativity juices flowing in the application, be heavily discussed, but in practice ... so many students would miss basic details in their project proposals, sometimes critical details |
| 23:30.50 | tigreton | you want i join the mailing list of the project i want to join? |
| 23:31.05 | bobbens | brlcad: and it seems like more people apply and orgs "raise the bar" :) |
| 23:31.10 | tigreton | brlcad, but now they say there are templates |
| 23:31.27 | brlcad | I'm saying that's WHY there are templates ;) |
| 23:31.51 | brlcad | I seriously considered a template this year, but instead just opted for a "strongly suggested" list of items that need to be included |
| 23:32.04 | bobbens | I don't like templates too much, feels like too much handholding :) |
| 23:32.19 | tigreton | well, in templates you can create a BIG textarea, no? |
| 23:32.19 | bobbens | but I guess it's inevitable |
| 23:32.24 | bobbens | with the amount of applications people get |
| 23:32.42 | tigreton | oh, so the problem is there aren't people who wants work? |
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| 23:33.22 | brlcad | so we at least avoid some basic stupidities, like forgetting to leave a contact e-mail or irc handle |
| 23:33.23 | ojwb | i think if a quality application ignored the template but included all the required info, I wouldn't complain much |
| 23:33.23 | SRabbelier | is off to bed, ttyl |
| 23:33.30 | ojwb | others may not agree |
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| 23:35.07 | brlcad | bobbens: if you really want to cover your bases, I'd suggest two apps to the org you *really* want to work with and one app to your second favorite |
| 23:35.15 | brlcad | er, lstdgtfp |
| 23:35.20 | bobbens | I do 3 :P |
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| 23:37.34 | lstdgtfp | Would you recommmend 2 or 3 to different orgs, or to the same orginization? |
| 23:37.56 | bobbens | 3 different |
| 23:38.39 | lstdgtfp | Decisions, decisions... |
| 23:39.00 | brlcad | that's probably the limit for good quality applications, 3 apps tops |
| 23:39.05 | lstdgtfp | there are so many projects that look interesting... |
| 23:39.59 | bobbens | lstdgtfp: set your bar high, choose your 3 "coolest" :) |
| 23:40.14 | brlcad | lstdgtfp: definitely not just one org |
| 23:40.31 | brlcad | two or three with two or three apps is pretty standard |
| 23:40.34 | bobbens | awww, my last year org didn't either apply or not get accepted this year |
| 23:40.36 | bobbens | shame |
| 23:40.47 | brlcad | which was that? |
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| 23:40.49 | bobbens | pagmo |
| 23:41.09 | bobbens | parrallel global multi-objective optimizer |
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| 23:41.41 | lstdgtfp | thats a mouthful :) |
| 23:41.49 | bobbens | 'tis |
| 23:42.21 | bobbens | since then I've done a lot of work in numerical optimization |
| 23:42.31 | bobbens | but wasn't going to apply, don't like doing same org twice :) |
| 23:42.36 | bobbens | makes me lazy and incompetent |
| 23:43.59 | Kodoque | The esa advanced concept project were quite cool |
| 23:44.08 | bobbens | yeah |
| 23:45.05 | bobbens | but there's also cool project this year :) |
| 23:45.28 | Kodoque | Too much cool project : - ) |
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| 23:45.59 | bobbens | I'd say just enough :) |
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