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| 00:09.26 | faceface | hi |
| 00:09.50 | faceface | can I make a mailing list and try to get student applicants to start working together? |
| 00:10.03 | faceface | (to answer each others questions) |
| 00:10.26 | faceface | I feel less like a mentor and more like an enabler... |
| 00:10.26 | rraf | faceface: yep, other projects have done so :) |
| 00:10.50 | faceface | increasingly I think I'm in the wrong place, the idea is to foster community coding right? |
| 00:11.14 | faceface | I'm not really a part of the community, just very loosly |
| 00:11.21 | rraf | exchange of ideas |
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| 00:11.41 | rraf | you can't force them to work together but you can provide an environment for them to do so |
| 00:12.04 | topfs2 | faceface, thats probably a good idea, last year I was with beagle and they had a special gsoc irc first and slowly moved all discussion to the normal channel, was quite a good idea IMO |
| 00:12.08 | faceface | rraf: sure, I mean, they can't all get accepted... |
| 00:12.08 | topfs2 | helped ease into the community |
| 00:12.25 | faceface | topfs2: beagle? |
| 00:12.49 | topfs2 | beagleboard |
| 00:12.50 | rraf | it's easier for newcommers to write on a gsoc list than the development mailing list |
| 00:13.00 | faceface | rraf: right |
| 00:13.25 | faceface | but the ideas I posted don't really belong there either... I guess I got carried away on the wiki |
| 00:13.38 | faceface | I'm guessing I won't get a slot within the org |
| 00:13.46 | faceface | but I feel bad for the students writing to me |
| 00:14.11 | faceface | goes to talk to his spiritual mentor in the organization proper... |
| 00:14.33 | rraf | you should speak with the organization admin he might allow you to mentor that idea if you got so many requests for it |
| 00:15.18 | rraf | given that you have the knowledge to do so |
| 00:17.35 | faceface | I'm worried the ideas are too speculative, not grounded, and not in line with the organizations core aims |
| 00:18.18 | faceface | I can advise, I have some knowledge and experience, but I'm not sure I could do the project myself |
| 00:18.49 | rraf | communication is the key, speak with the org |
| 00:19.07 | faceface | ty |
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| 00:22.16 | asn | I didn't manage to find this in the FAQ (although I remember it was somewhere in there): Is GSoC work only code? For example, can a student's work also contain spec. writing/discussing? |
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| 00:23.14 | hypatia | asn: only code :( |
| 00:23.56 | rraf | google summer of *code* :) |
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| 00:25.14 | topfs2 | Doing a spec with an implementation is probably ok I would guess? |
| 00:27.19 | hypatia | topfs2: the spec doesn't count, basically. you have to do the implementation |
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| 00:31.25 | topfs2 | hypatia, ah, true. |
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| 00:54.53 | tty1 | anyone know where i can find more GSoC info on umbrella corps (either being one or getting to be a part of one) |
| 00:55.42 | hypatia | tty1: do you mean as a student or as a mentor |
| 00:55.53 | tty1 | neither, as a project/org |
| 00:55.53 | hypatia | tty1: and my "umbrella corps" do you mean participating organizations? |
| 00:56.02 | hypatia | tty1: the deadline was like 3 weeks ago |
| 00:56.18 | tty1 | hypatia, i mean a aprticipating orginization which allows other projects to participate in GSoC through them |
| 00:56.56 | hypatia | tty1: ah, gotcha... i'm unfamilar with that, sorry |
| 00:58.05 | tty1 | hypatia, carols mentioned it earlier citing Apache foundation and python as examples |
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| 00:58.40 | hypatia | tty1: cool, i don't know of any others, sorry |
| 00:58.44 | hypatia | perhaps someone else in here does |
| 00:59.48 | tty1 | well i dont so much need a list as i do more information on the GSoC guildines regarding umbrella orgs |
| 01:00.30 | tty1 | hypatia, i was curious just how far it can go (can someone make an umbrella corp just for GSoC for example as a representation of many projects in a particular field but otherwise doesnt exist outside of GSoC except as individual projects) |
| 01:01.03 | hypatia | tty1: if they can't they can't at this point - org applications are long over. |
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| 01:01.13 | hypatia | tty1: but i haven't heard of that happening at all, fwiw |
| 01:01.34 | tty1 | hypatia, yea i know that i was thinking forward to next year and just wnated more information ont he topic is all |
| 01:01.47 | hypatia | nods |
| 01:02.17 | hypatia | well, hopefully someone who knows will see your query :) |
| 01:02.32 | hypatia | alternately, it may be more productive to mail the list, or mail carols directly |
| 01:02.41 | dberkholz | tty1: well, one org could apply and claim to be an umbrella for many of them |
| 01:02.42 | tty1 | hypatia, like this year we came close to being that indirectly.. we are our own org, but we hav several projects ont he ideas page with mentors from other projects outside of our own, specifically ont he topiuc of integrating their project with ours.. so in a sense we were an umbrella for many projects int he AI field this year |
| 01:02.55 | tty1 | hypatia, so im considering if it may be worthwhile to play that up next year |
| 01:03.10 | tty1 | hypatia, true she did say to email her if i had more questions |
| 01:03.19 | hypatia | having mentors working on integrating 3rd-party sw doesn't exactly make you an umbrella org, i don't think |
| 01:03.27 | hypatia | but, it's not my call :) |
| 01:03.28 | dberkholz | for x.org, we act as an umbrella for related projects that aren't actually "under" x.org |
| 01:04.46 | tty1 | hypatia, yea but those mentors were the founders of the projects for which we are integrating, and the unique nature of our project makes it that working on 3rd-party apps directly effects our app (our framework essentially unifies 3rd-party libraries under a single framework) |
| 01:04.53 | tty1 | hypatia, so we could expand on that idea next year |
| 01:06.11 | hypatia | tty1: i have no idea if that will be useful or not. ask the folks who run gsoc. i'm just another org admin. |
| 01:06.27 | tty1 | hypatia, which org may i ask? |
| 01:06.47 | hypatia | tty1: k-9 mail |
| 01:06.55 | faceface | night |
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| 01:08.00 | tty1 | hypatia, need an AI spam filter by any chance ::wink:: lol |
| 01:08.36 | hypatia | i'm personally of the opinion that doing spam filtering at the endpoint is stupid. but ymmv. |
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| 01:09.10 | tty1 | hypatia, how about an ai that tells people their stupid if they install an endpoint spam filter? :) lol |
| 01:10.22 | hypatia | TURING TEST ERROR, PLEASE TRY OTHER OUTPUT |
| 01:10.42 | hypatia | lol sorry, that was less funny than i'd hoped for |
| 01:10.44 | hypatia | :) |
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| 01:28.29 | tty1 | hypatia, lol nah i was just exercizing |
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| 01:33.11 | dbs | hypatia: thanks for k-9, I love it |
| 01:33.54 | hypatia | dbs: i am but a lowly admin though i hope to get some patches done when school is done. will pass along the love though! |
| 01:34.11 | dbs | admins are people too :) |
| 01:34.19 | hypatia | some of us are robots :( |
| 01:34.29 | hypatia | kidding :) |
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| 02:11.58 | starboarder2001 | hey |
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| 03:02.25 | m0 | Hello, if I was enrolled in Masters, last course I took was 3 months ago, but I am not taking any course now, am I elligble ? |
| 03:03.43 | m0 | It says I must be a full time or part time student, I was part time 3 monhts ago, I guess that means I "must" be currently enrolled. |
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| 03:10.11 | downeym | m0: Yes, you must be currently enrolled as a student (masters is OK), although most GSoC students are not actively taking courses during the summer (northern hemisphere) holidays. |
| 03:11.17 | downeym | m0: I know in my masters programme you do not necessarily take courses every semester, sometimes just research. Do you still have an active status at university as a student? |
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| 06:16.42 | littlehorse1880 | hi all |
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| 06:18.47 | littlehorse1880 | hi all,I'm a student, |
| 06:19.15 | littlehorse1880 | Can we student contract the mento orgs now? |
| 06:19.44 | littlehorse1880 | I'm interested in some proj ideas. |
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| 06:21.17 | littlehorse1880 | ah~~is anyone here? |
| 06:21.41 | jljusten1 | Yes, I think you can contact the mentor orgs now. |
| 06:22.40 | jljusten1 | The timeline seems to indicate that would be fine as of the 18th |
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| 06:23.41 | littlehorse1880 | yeah..I've sent one mail for the mento...but he didn't reply to me yet |
| 06:24.44 | chunmun | littlehorse1880: patience is the key, usually they take a day or two to reply |
| 06:24.50 | jljusten1 | Oh, I guess there are no guarantees in terms of reply timelines from the mentor orgs |
| 06:24.53 | chunmun | (or more :! ) |
| 06:25.04 | jljusten1 | Did you join the project's email list? |
| 06:25.53 | littlehorse1880 | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:26.02 | ojwb | there's no "start date" for contacting mentoring orgs |
| 06:26.04 | littlehorse1880 | Do you mean this? |
| 06:26.12 | ojwb | you can contact them at any point in the year |
| 06:26.43 | ojwb | littlehorse1880: no, that's a general mailing list for gsoc |
| 06:26.44 | jljusten1 | No, usually open source projects have a public devel email list. |
| 06:27.04 | jljusten1 | You can start to interact with the project members on that list... |
| 06:27.12 | ojwb | it depends on the org, but many encourage discussion in public rather than contacting mentors privately |
| 06:27.43 | ojwb | and you'll probably get more feedback that way |
| 06:28.19 | littlehorse1880 | ojwb:So..what is the mail list you reffered? |
| 06:28.28 | ojwb | it depends on the org |
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| 06:28.39 | ojwb | if you click on the name in the org list, it will show you details |
| 06:28.52 | ojwb | like their mailing list (if they have one), irc channel, etc |
| 06:28.58 | kblin | morning |
| 06:29.05 | ojwb | hi kblin |
| 06:29.14 | ojwb | what a marathon meeting that was... |
| 06:29.24 | ojwb | even skimming the scrollback was exhausting! |
| 06:29.51 | littlehorse1880 | o thx for your tips |
| 06:29.59 | littlehorse1880 | the mail list,the patients |
| 06:30.02 | littlehorse1880 | :) |
| 06:31.22 | kblin | ojwb: yeah, for a while the queue just refused to shrink :) |
| 06:31.56 | ojwb | i was following more closely until I got to you saying there were 15 in the queue still! |
| 06:32.44 | kblin | and people kept adding to the queue after that point as well |
| 06:33.01 | ojwb | though it sounded like a few in the queue gave up |
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| 06:38.50 | kblin | understandably, it was going on for three hours when I had to get doing and |Kev| took over |
| 06:38.59 | kblin | thanks |Kev|, btw |
| 06:39.14 | kblin | er s/doing/going/ |
| 06:45.43 | thebolt | hi kblin , ojwb et al |
| 06:47.49 | ojwb | hi thebolt |
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| 06:56.43 | Vikash | hi all |
| 07:03.44 | oy | Vikash: hi |
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| 07:10.03 | scorche | kblin: you know who made the channel +r? - i dont really see a reason it should be |
| 07:11.07 | scorche | [2011-03-22 10:39:57] *** kai sets channel #gsoc mode -v+ri fitzgan |
| 07:11.30 | *** mode/#gsoc [-r] by scorche |
| 07:11.44 | kblin | scorche: oh, I think I typoed the line |
| 07:11.54 | kblin | I used to set -v+v old_user new_user |
| 07:12.01 | scorche | nods |
| 07:12.01 | ojwb | probably left over from the meeting |
| 07:12.12 | scorche | ojwb: well, still, this channel doesnt need +r |
| 07:12.14 | thiago_home | tries to remember what +i is now |
| 07:12.19 | scorche | responds to the discuss ML thread |
| 07:12.33 | kblin | and I think I missed out the v once so I set a -v+ old _user new_user |
| 07:12.35 | scorche | thiago_home: invite only |
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| 07:12.39 | |Kev| | +i is invite isn't it? |
| 07:12.40 | kblin | and that set funny things |
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| 07:12.46 | thiago_home | isn't that +I ? |
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| 07:12.58 | kblin | anyway, my fault |
| 07:13.02 | |Kev| | And then +I sets what the invites are? |
| 07:13.07 | scorche | thiago_home: those are the invites |
| 07:13.18 | ojwb | scorche: I'm probably not fully up on my channel flags... |
| 07:13.25 | scorche | so i would set the channel invite only with +i and then +I on, say scorche*!*@* |
| 07:13.33 | scorche | thats ok - that is what i am here for =) |
| 07:13.33 | thiago_home | ah, ok |
| 07:13.38 | kblin | what does +r do? |
| 07:13.45 | thiago_home | kblin: registered only |
| 07:13.48 | kblin | ah |
| 07:13.51 | thiago_home | 07:49 -!- #gsoc Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services |
| 07:13.57 | scorche | kblin: prevents any un-registered users from joinging the channel |
| 07:14.01 | scorche | joining too |
| 07:14.11 | thiago_home | there's also a mode that prevents them from talking |
| 07:14.20 | kblin | ah, good to know, but probably not what we want for #gsoc |
| 07:14.47 | kblin | scorche: thanks for noticing |
| 07:15.16 | scorche | kblin: i noticed it by a few mails on the discuss ML ;) |
| 07:15.21 | thiago_home | 07:48 -!- sendak.freenode.net ircd-seven-1.0.3 DOQRSZaghilopswz CFILMPQbcefgijklmnopqrstvz bkloveqjfI |
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| 07:15.58 | thiago_home | the first letters block are user modes, the second one are channel modes, the third one are channel modes that take parameters |
| 07:15.59 | kblin | for next year I want a plugin for socinfo to handle this queueing up |
| 07:16.21 | scorche | kblin: a quick script for irssi would be simple to do too, but it wouldnt hurt |
| 07:16.52 | scorche | thiago_home: for future reference, there is this: http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml |
| 07:16.53 | thiago_home | btw, that took a lot of time yesterday. carols is incredibly patient (and you too, kblin) |
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| 07:17.16 | kblin | scorche: true, maybe that's the quicker solution |
| 07:17.29 | scorche | heads to sleep |
| 07:17.37 | kblin | but I didn't have the down-time to look into this yesterday, the meeting kind of snuck up to me |
| 07:17.54 | brlcad | waves to scorche, g'night |
| 07:17.58 | scorche | yeah - sorry - i usually help out, but was busy all day =/ |
| 07:18.02 | kblin | at least I got /mute set up |
| 07:18.05 | *** mode/#gsoc [+q kai!*@*] by kblin |
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| 07:18.15 | *** mode/#gsoc [-q kai!*@*] by kblin |
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| 07:18.21 | ojwb | if the bot did it, it could queue up the ideas page urls too, and save a little time |
| 07:18.23 | scorche | waves to brlcad |
| 07:18.35 | kblin | ojwb: that's sort of the thought |
| 07:18.39 | scorche | ojwb: i smell a summer of code project ;) |
| 07:18.52 | scorche | (though i doubt it would take a whole summer to do something so simple... |
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| 07:18.59 | thebolt | hm, i hope someone soon moves in this overfull starbucks so i can get a seat close to a pore outlet.. running ot of power in laptop :P |
| 07:19.08 | kblin | gci more likely |
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| 07:20.14 | kblin | off to work |
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| 07:50.10 | akshayagarwal | GSOC infosession RSS link giving server erroe |
| 07:50.15 | akshayagarwal | *error |
| 07:51.25 | akshayagarwal | resolved |
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| 08:04.56 | Vikash | I have a question. Say I apply for 10 projects ... them can I get selected on multiple projects ( I know I have to work on ony one ) therefore does than happen... And how does a selection procedurego |
| 08:05.45 | dholbach | does anybody know where the logs for this channel are? |
| 08:05.59 | |Kev| | Vikash: It would be a very bad idea to apply for 10 - quality is important and writing 10 good apps is almost impossible. |
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| 08:06.18 | Vikash | |Kev|: I am applying for 3-4 |
| 08:06.21 | |Kev| | You can only be selected for one; there is a conflicts meeting to work out what to do with students that're accepted by more than one org. |
| 08:06.50 | |Kev| | Typically the orgs just ask the student which they'd rather. |
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| 08:07.01 | thebolt | if they notice it in time |
| 08:07.15 | |Kev| | thebolt: ? |
| 08:07.19 | Vikash | |Kev|: So all the org sit together to discuss the selection |
| 08:07.26 | |Kev| | Vikash: only for conflicts. |
| 08:07.37 | thebolt | |Kev|: what i mean is that it is not always possible to ask students.. |
| 08:07.46 | |Kev| | thebolt: Right. Thus 'typically' |
| 08:07.55 | thebolt | so you shouldn't count on being asked |
| 08:08.05 | thebolt | rather, see it as the org decides ;) |
| 08:08.21 | ojwb | !logs |
| 08:08.22 | socinfo | ojwb: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
| 08:08.26 | ojwb | dholbach: there^ |
| 08:08.31 | Vikash | |Kev|: Thanks fo replying and the question was on behalf of one of my friends... I am applying only on 3-4. |
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| 08:08.34 | dholbach | thanks ojwb |
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| 08:08.54 | Vikash | |Kev|: I was unable to send messages on gsoc channel last night |
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| 08:09.06 | ojwb | it was muted for the meeting |
| 08:09.28 | Vikash | ok... |
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| 08:09.40 | sanjoyd | Can one work on GSoC project for V8 under the Google OSPO umbrella? |
| 08:09.43 | Vikash | ojwb: but why so. |
| 08:09.56 | ojwb | becuase it's hard to have the meeting with random chatter going on |
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| 08:10.07 | ojwb | and it's good to have the meeting in public |
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| 08:10.33 | Vikash | ojwb: V+1 |
| 08:10.36 | Vikash | ojwb: +1 |
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| 08:11.10 | [Deminem] | Hey guys! |
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| 08:12.33 | Vikash | see ya... gotta go... have a class.... and one more this. should the application be necesarrily be 1500-4000 words or can it be less ( though it depends on ther org ) and the total number of students selected over various soc project is restricted?? |
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| 08:13.07 | |Kev| | There is a budgetary limit to the number of students accepted. |
| 08:13.09 | ojwb | what the application should look like it up to the org |
| 08:13.16 | |Kev| | How much you should write for your application depends on the org. |
| 08:13.21 | |Kev| | There are sample applications in the student guide |
| 08:13.35 | ojwb | ooh, right, i hadn't spotted those |
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| 08:14.07 | Vikash | thanks |Kev|,,, ojwb... |
| 08:14.34 | ojwb | 1500 doesn't sound like a lot though |
| 08:14.47 | Vikash | I know... :( |
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| 08:15.00 | |Kev| | I don't care about application length, just about containing the necessaries. |
| 08:15.28 | |Kev| | Being obsessed with word counts is one of the defining features of students :D |
| 08:15.40 | ojwb | they're often forced to be |
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| 08:16.15 | thiago_home | no longer being a student, if someone asks me for 300-500 words, I sometimes deliver 250 |
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| 08:17.44 | Maru_ | Anybody out there? |
| 08:17.52 | thiago_home | no |
| 08:17.54 | thiago_home | :-) |
| 08:17.56 | Maru_ | Darn |
| 08:17.59 | Maru_ | I was really hoping |
| 08:18.07 | Maru_ | Hi =) |
| 08:19.13 | thebolt | |Kev|: never really had that where I studied, luckily |
| 08:19.44 | |Kev| | I tended to just write what was necessary, and check it was within tolerance. |
| 08:19.55 | |Kev| | Most students struggle to keep within word limits, in my experience. |
| 08:19.57 | kai | |Kev|: that's because all the scientific world is training you to obsess about word count :) |
| 08:20.07 | |Kev| | kai: It did a very poor job on me :) |
| 08:20.38 | kai | on my last conference application I had to blow up my abstract to fit the word count |
| 08:20.45 | thebolt | |Kev|: yea, it is a much bigger skill to write short.. |
| 08:20.50 | |Kev| | Well, no, it mattered more for papers during the PhD. As an undergrad I cared little. |
| 08:20.56 | thebolt | short but still include everything you want/need to include |
| 08:21.06 | thiago_home | same for me |
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| 08:21.13 | thiago_home | that's why I delivered 250 out of 300-500 asked |
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| 08:21.18 | Maru_ | Hello ALl |
| 08:21.21 | kai | as a scientist I feel offended. I was able tell a story with less text and they force me to play linguistic tricks so the web form would allow me to submit |
| 08:21.21 | Maru_ | All* |
| 08:21.28 | thiago_home | writing more would mean spending more time writing the abstract than the actual presentation time |
| 08:21.33 | |Kev| | kai: Quite. |
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| 08:22.10 | kai | thiago_home: they had a check for the word count in the application from |
| 08:22.12 | thebolt | for my msc thesis presentation that was terrible.. i could have easily made a 45 minute presentation, but only got 15 minutes (for some reason my advisor gave me 15.. my friend had 25-30.. oh well) |
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| 08:22.56 | kai | I was shortly considering to write a paragraph about how the webform was encouraging unscientific behaviour |
| 08:23.13 | kai | but then I realized I'm not famous enough to pull this off |
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| 08:24.20 | [Deminem]_ | One question for you guys, is someone eligible for participating as student if he/she had done his/her graduation 3 years ago? Or is it necessary that you should have to be in some institution under some program. |
| 08:24.45 | ojwb | blinks |
| 08:24.51 | thebolt | kai: hehe |
| 08:24.55 | kai | [Deminem]_: it's a faq |
| 08:24.59 | kai | !eligible |
| 08:24.59 | socinfo | kai: "eligible" is Follow this handy flowchart to see if you are eligible http://goo.gl/kvCSv (text version at http://goo.gl/ImfNT) |
| 08:25.01 | ojwb | he's already gone |
| 08:25.08 | Maru_ | he's gone |
| 08:25.11 | kai | there with a _ |
| 08:25.14 | ojwb | ah no, that was with out the _ |
| 08:25.15 | ojwb | yeah |
| 08:25.37 | Maru_ | When are mentors typically online? |
| 08:25.44 | [Deminem]_ | Rhnx kai dat would be helpful. |
| 08:25.59 | thebolt | Maru_: depends on where they live.. and their personal schedules etc etc.. so totally impossible to answer |
| 08:26.22 | kai | thebolt: I disagree |
| 08:26.35 | Maru_ | ...based on personal experience? I'm sure there's a time you speak with a mentor. I just want to know what the trend has been =) |
| 08:26.37 | ojwb | Maru_: if you're failing to find them on irc, mailing lists may be a better option |
| 08:26.38 | kai | Maru_: mentors are typically online from the time they log on to the time they log off |
| 08:26.52 | thebolt | kai: ok, smartass :P |
| 08:27.02 | kai | thebolt: I agree there's no _helpful_ answer to the question |
| 08:27.05 | kai | :D |
| 08:27.15 | Maru_ | ojwb: Thanks |
| 08:27.40 | ojwb | some are on most of the day, some evenings only |
| 08:27.50 | ojwb | but they may live all over the world, so even that doesn't help |
| 08:27.58 | Maru_ | but what have you observed. That is my questions =) |
| 08:28.11 | thebolt | Maru_: basically, any time of day |
| 08:28.14 | ojwb | well, I'm always online when I look |
| 08:28.27 | thebolt | Maru_: mentors are spread out over the globe in almost all timezones |
| 08:28.37 | Maru_ | I understand that, thanks |
| 08:28.40 | ojwb | as are students |
| 08:28.52 | ojwb | so any answer you get isn't going to be useful |
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| 08:28.59 | thiago_home | there are very few timezones with no one, like GMT-1 |
| 08:29.01 | Maru_ | apparently not =) |
| 08:29.38 | Maru_ | What are you guys using for IRC clients? |
| 08:29.41 | thebolt | thiago_home: are you sure? |
| 08:29.52 | kai | !polls |
| 08:30.14 | thebolt | thiago_home: iceland use gmt-1 |
| 08:30.15 | ojwb | kai: polls are long thin upright things |
| 08:30.27 | thebolt | iirc |
| 08:30.39 | kai | !learn polls as Please don't use #gsoc to do polls. |
| 08:30.39 | socinfo | kai: The operation succeeded. |
| 08:30.57 | thebolt | ah, apparently not, they should be but still use UTC |
| 08:31.09 | Maru_ | what platform is iirc for? I need something with https |
| 08:31.24 | kai | ojwb: aren't polls + and - for power on a battery? |
| 08:31.33 | ojwb | or people from polland |
| 08:31.42 | thiago_home | thebolt: no, iceland is GMT+0 |
| 08:31.46 | kai | Maru_: iirc is an abbrevation for if I recall correctly |
| 08:32.11 | Maru_ | hahah mistook that for some IRC client I've never heard of |
| 08:32.15 | thiago_home | thebolt: GMT-1 is Cape Verde, parts of Greenland and Azores (Portugal) |
| 08:32.43 | thebolt | thiago_home: yea, i found that when i looked |
| 08:32.47 | kai | oh, I guess that qualifies as "almost noone" even more than iceland |
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| 08:34.22 | thebolt | who knows, maybe one day there will be a mentor in cape verde ;) |
| 08:34.59 | kai | thebolt: my maths professor told me that "almost none" means "none, with a finite number of exceptions" |
| 08:35.08 | kai | 6 billion is finite |
| 08:35.31 | kai | so "there's almost noone living in china" is correct in a mathematical sense ;) |
| 08:35.34 | thebolt | kai: yep |
| 08:36.02 | kai | anyway |
| 08:36.02 | thiago_home | is an engineer |
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| 08:36.15 | thiago_home | so 2+2 can be 5 if we need it to be |
| 08:36.23 | thebolt | it is like those persky functions that are defined everywhere except in a countably infinite number of points, still integratable ;) |
| 08:36.28 | kai | /mode -smartass kai |
| 08:36.35 | kai | time to get some work done |
| 08:36.40 | thebolt | ie defined "almost everywhere" ;) |
| 08:37.03 | thiago_home | thebolt: countably infinite? |
| 08:37.04 | Maru_ | countably infinite? |
| 08:37.09 | Maru_ | hahaha |
| 08:37.12 | Maru_ | second that |
| 08:37.41 | thebolt | thiago_home: yes? you know of countable and uncountably infinites? :) |
| 08:37.48 | kai | thiago_home: I'm a biologist, 2+2 is something between -10 and 10, depending on the weather |
| 08:37.54 | thebolt | the integers are countably infinite |
| 08:38.16 | Maru_ | number theory <3 |
| 08:38.28 | thiago_home | hasn't brushed up on his transfinite theory in a long time |
| 08:38.30 | thebolt | (and any set from which you can create a injective function to the integers are also coutably infinite.. such as the rational numbers) |
| 08:38.31 | |Kev| | Numbers aren't a theory they're real... |
| 08:38.34 | Maru_ | a countably infinite set |
| 08:38.36 | |Kev| | apart from those that aren't. |
| 08:38.51 | Maru_ | I'm talking about the subject of Number Theory |
| 08:39.02 | |Kev| | I'm aware of that. |
| 08:39.18 | thebolt | |Kev|: .) |
| 08:39.25 | thebolt | loves nerdy math-jokes.. |
| 08:39.44 | thiago_home | one might argue that negative integers are already surreal |
| 08:39.44 | thebolt | i am also supposed to be an engineer.. but a bit too much of a theorist at times ;) |
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| 08:39.58 | thiago_home | I have 3 apples, then someone takes 5 away... |
| 08:40.34 | thebolt | thiago_home: well, you can only have a natural number of things.. |
| 08:40.36 | thiago_home | I remember heated discussions on 5th grade... |
| 08:40.49 | thebolt | not possible to have an integer number of things |
| 08:41.12 | |Kev| | It *is* possible to have an integer number of things. |
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| 08:41.22 | |Kev| | There are some integer numbers of things that are not possible. |
| 08:41.30 | thebolt | ok, it is not possible to have _any_ integer number of things |
| 08:41.32 | |Kev| | About half of them :) |
| 08:41.51 | thebolt | one less than half, which still is an Aleph-Null set :P |
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| 08:43.37 | thebolt | i remember trying to explain countably infinite vs uncountably infinite to a non-maths/non-tech friend.. it wasn't easy :P |
| 08:43.38 | thiago_home | sometimes it's not feasible to have a certain natural number of things |
| 08:43.44 | thiago_home | like, take "I need 1 trillion people" |
| 08:43.51 | thebolt | thiago_home: no, but in theory you can ;) |
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| 08:44.07 | thiago_home | thebolt: right. In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they aren't. :-) |
| 08:44.18 | thebolt | but you cannot have -10 of anything ;) |
| 08:44.50 | Maru_ | nor a quotient |
| 08:45.04 | thiago_home | or like a professor put it, "theory is when you know how things should work; practice is when they work but you don't know how or why" |
| 08:45.22 | thiago_home | "... then we put them together and nothing works and no one knows why" |
| 08:45.27 | Maru_ | well said |
| 08:45.28 | *** join/#gsoc nitish (~myth@unaffiliated/nitish) |
| 08:45.35 | thebolt | used to have a sign on my office door saying that |
| 08:45.45 | *** join/#gsoc isnowfy (~isnowfy@2001:da8:7001:27:725a:b6ff:fe2c:72ed) |
| 08:45.46 | thiago_home | yeah, old saying |
| 08:45.55 | Maru_ | Are you guys students? |
| 08:45.59 | thiago_home | nope |
| 08:46.01 | thebolt | nope |
| 08:46.03 | thiago_home | haven't been in years |
| 08:46.15 | thebolt | graduated last year. but never been a student in gsoc context |
| 08:46.21 | Maru_ | So what brings you on this IRC |
| 08:46.25 | Maru_ | ah ic |
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| 08:46.30 | thebolt | former mentor&admin |
| 08:46.32 | thiago_home | went back to being a student when he took an MBA |
| 08:46.36 | thiago_home | same for me |
| 08:46.47 | Maru_ | ic |
| 08:46.47 | thebolt | and hope one day to once again have the time to do it again ;) |
| 08:46.48 | thiago_home | mentor in 2005, mentor & admin in 2006-2008 |
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| 08:47.00 | Maru_ | thebolt: admin on behalf of? |
| 08:47.16 | Maru_ | thiago_home: also on behalf of? |
| 08:47.29 | thiago_home | KDE |
| 08:47.35 | thebolt | Maru_: crystalspace3d |
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| 08:47.41 | thiago_home | I did apply again as admin last year (for Qt), but we didn't get accepted |
| 08:48.00 | thebolt | thiago_home: 2005, was that the first year for gsoc? |
| 08:48.04 | Maru_ | yes |
| 08:48.20 | thiago_home | thebolt: yes |
| 08:48.29 | thebolt | ok, then i mentored/adminned 2006-2009 |
| 08:49.20 | Maru_ | Hmm I wonder where all the students are then |
| 08:49.32 | kai | sleeping? |
| 08:49.41 | Maru_ | haha I def. should be |
| 08:49.46 | kai | actually I'm a student.. but not in gsoc context |
| 08:49.54 | Maru_ | ic |
| 08:50.03 | bobbens | I'm a student |
| 08:50.05 | thebolt | yea, all my years as a mentor in gsoc i was a student in real life |
| 08:50.06 | zaki1 | here we are :) |
| 08:50.06 | thiago_home | they could also be somewhere where students usually spend a lot of time in... |
| 08:50.09 | thiago_home | like school |
| 08:50.18 | Maru_ | =) out of the darkness |
| 08:50.24 | thiago_home | well, most students |
| 08:50.27 | bobbens | student is a state of mind |
| 08:50.34 | bobbens | will always be a student |
| 08:50.40 | kai | thiago_home: ah, I thought you meant a pub |
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| 08:52.11 | Maru_ | thiago_home: What are your thoughts on participating in GSOC AND having an internship? |
| 08:52.29 | |Kev| | Do Not Do. |
| 08:52.46 | |Kev| | GSoC = full time job. |
| 08:52.50 | thiago_home | agrees with |Kev| |
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| 08:53.48 | Dark_Shikari | Bad idea unless the internship is for the same work |
| 08:53.57 | Dark_Shikari | Which, mind you, would be the luckiest thing in the world |
| 08:54.05 | Maru_ | =) |
| 08:54.12 | Maru_ | Similar work |
| 08:54.19 | Maru_ | Of course |
| 08:55.00 | |Kev| | Dark_Shikari: Even in that case, your GSoC mentor would have to be the same as your internship 'mentor'. |
| 08:55.16 | |Kev| | (For it to vaguely work) |
| 08:55.18 | bobbens | it's a bit cheating the system anyway |
| 08:55.21 | bobbens | unethical |
| 08:55.26 | Dark_Shikari | I agree. |
| 08:55.27 | Maru_ | cheating how? |
| 08:55.27 | |Kev| | (Or, rather, for it to not be a potential disaster) |
| 08:55.29 | |Kev| | bobbens: Indeed. |
| 08:55.36 | Dark_Shikari | I've only managed that once though, with two companies simultaneously paying me to write the same code. |
| 08:55.39 | NayanShah | Gsoc does qualify to be internship in many univs right ? |
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| 08:55.43 | bobbens | you're robbing another person the opportunity to have a full time gsoc job |
| 08:55.46 | Maru_ | If I can put in time for two jobs, why can't I work two jobs? |
| 08:55.48 | Dark_Shikari | And yeah, that's bad. |
| 08:55.49 | |Kev| | NayanShah: Ask the University. |
| 08:55.53 | bobbens | Maru_: you can't do 80 hours a week |
| 08:56.08 | Maru_ | There's no fine line between can and can't |
| 08:56.09 | |Kev| | GSoC requires you to dedicate a full time job's worth of work to it. |
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| 08:56.21 | bobbens | Maru_: fine, rob someone of a decent opportunity |
| 08:56.27 | Dark_Shikari | Yeah, I've never seen students work out well when they didn't have time to do gsoc |
| 08:56.32 | Maru_ | I spend insane hours on work already |
| 08:56.33 | Dark_Shikari | it *always* ended badly |
| 08:56.37 | Maru_ | I'd say very near 80 |
| 08:56.37 | bobbens | these things while "legal" are unethical imho |
| 08:56.56 | bobbens | you're on irc, so you can't be spending 80 :) |
| 08:57.41 | Maru_ | I know my schedule =) |
| 08:57.43 | NayanShah | bobbens: won't be 80 work hours then. |
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| 08:58.14 | bobbens | and it's not about the hours, but the quality and dedication |
| 08:58.23 | Maru_ | bobbens: I agree |
| 08:58.26 | bobbens | imho 2 "full" things at once will not give them both the dedication they need |
| 08:58.28 | NayanShah | agree |
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| 08:58.35 | bobbens | speaking of which, I have a thesis to finish |
| 08:58.37 | bobbens | no irc for me :) |
| 08:58.50 | kai | actually all the students I had to fail so far had a job next to GSoC |
| 08:58.50 | NayanShah | bobbens: good luck. :) |
| 08:59.05 | kai | bobbens: I can ban you if that helps ;) |
| 08:59.15 | bobbens | nah, deadline in 2 weeks, need to finisha draft by friday |
| 08:59.25 | bobbens | reading papers until your eyes bleed is no fun :) |
| 08:59.26 | |Kev| | kai: I've only had one student fail, and they didn't have a job, but did have something else interfere with their schedule. |
| 08:59.37 | |Kev| | s/until your eyes bleed// |
| 09:00.01 | bobbens | nah, there's fun papers |
| 09:00.05 | kai | bobbens: I can give you a fun paper |
| 09:00.05 | Maru_ | It's tough to choose between and internship and GSOC, very tough |
| 09:00.11 | bobbens | and there's the "ton I have to read for writing state of the art" |
| 09:00.11 | |Kev| | I think I must have missed them in my field. |
| 09:00.24 | |Kev| | There are *interesting* papers, but I didn't come across any I'd class as fun. Even mine. |
| 09:00.35 | bobbens | well, depends on your definition of interesting |
| 09:00.41 | bobbens | I'm realyl into kinematic synthesis |
| 09:00.47 | bobbens | which is a shame, nobody in gsoc does that :) |
| 09:00.48 | thebolt | |Kev|: what is your field? |
| 09:01.10 | |Kev| | thebolt: It used to be multi-objective evolutionary optimisation, when I was in academia. |
| 09:01.22 | thebolt | bobbens: hm, more specific? |
| 09:01.27 | bobbens | |Kev|: that's fun, they have crazy naming schemes |
| 09:01.28 | thebolt | |Kev|: ah, okay |
| 09:01.44 | thebolt | i have read tons of fun papers, but i am pretty broad ;) |
| 09:01.58 | bobbens | thebolt: dimensional kinematic synthesis applied to tree-like topology of R serial chains using clifford subalgebra C^+_{0,3,1} (dual quaternions) |
| 09:01.58 | kai | |Kev|: I think this is fun: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0013060 |
| 09:02.01 | |Kev| | bobbens: Sure, I had great full calling my project when I went into a research project with industry 'The MOO'. |
| 09:02.22 | bobbens | heh |
| 09:02.24 | kai | the paper is so bad it's hillarious.. a little sad they got published, but a good laugh otherwise |
| 09:02.28 | bobbens | well I had to write a numerical solver |
| 09:02.33 | bobbens | meta-heuristics and the likes |
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| 09:02.36 | bobbens | doesn't really work at all :) |
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| 09:02.52 | thebolt | bobbens: well, if you can get that into more "usable" things like "upright biped motion" i suspect it might be interesting for my old org.. |
| 09:02.53 | |Kev| | The high point being turning to the CEO when we were doing a sales pitch to a big UK bank and saying "So, can I call this project the moo-cow?". |
| 09:02.55 | bobbens | but that's because the bezout bound of my non-linear system is 10^{1058} |
| 09:03.01 | |Kev| | This didn't make me popular :D |
| 09:03.22 | bobbens | thebolt: nah, specifically working with human hand model :) |
| 09:03.27 | bobbens | but doing it in general |
| 09:03.36 | thebolt | bobbens: yea, but i mean if you want to do it for gsoc ;) |
| 09:03.42 | bobbens | will probably release a library for doing dual quaternion kinematics in a few months :) |
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| 09:03.48 | bobbens | thebolt: well I have my eye on other projects |
| 09:03.50 | thiago_home | |Kev|: understadably. After all, which cows aren't moo-cows? |
| 09:03.57 | bobbens | and very few people do this sort of kinematic synthesis :) |
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| 09:04.38 | Maru_ | What are you guys' thoughts on internship vs GSOC? I know GSOC is practically and internship, but what kind of opportunities do you think it will open for students? |
| 09:04.51 | |Kev| | Maru_: It entirely depends on your field. |
| 09:04.55 | bobbens | and what you want to do |
| 09:05.02 | Maru_ | CS grad school |
| 09:05.11 | |Kev| | My OSS / Open Standards work got me my current job, and I can't imagine me ever getting a better one. |
| 09:05.16 | Maru_ | I'm Computer Engineering but heavily interested in CS |
| 09:05.29 | thebolt | same with me, but quite indirectly |
| 09:05.47 | bobbens | Maru_: if you can get an interesting intership it is probably betetr than gsoc imho |
| 09:05.57 | bobbens | but for getting an intership "for the hell of it", gsoc is probably better :) |
| 09:06.03 | |Kev| | I think quite the opposite, as it happens :) |
| 09:06.05 | thebolt | i don't think you should overestimate the possibility of _direct_ payoff of OSS involvement.. but at the same time don't underestimate the indirect/long-time payoff possibilities |
| 09:06.06 | Maru_ | bobbens: any reason? |
| 09:06.07 | |Kev| | As I say, depends on your field. |
| 09:06.39 | bobbens | Maru_: well you just have to think what can help you more, an interesting internship closely related to your field at a reputable center is probably better than gsoc |
| 09:06.50 | bobbens | they value more generally actually "going to a lab" than "coding at home" |
| 09:06.58 | bobbens | but that's from my experience |
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| 09:07.30 | Maru_ | bobbens: Participating organizations are reputable though? I guess I'm wondering why you think some place such as IBM will open more doors that GSOC |
| 09:07.40 | |Kev| | An internship would have been irrelevant to my postgrad work, apart from development experience, and I get a lot of that from OSS. |
| 09:07.42 | bobbens | well it depends on what you want to do in a future |
| 09:07.42 | Maru_ | than* |
| 09:07.50 | Maru_ | grad school...CS |
| 09:08.02 | |Kev| | Grad school isn't a long-term goal :) |
| 09:08.07 | |Kev| | At least, I hope not :) |
| 09:08.38 | bobbens | well say to stick into academia, I think interships at universities you would like to do stuff in is probably better |
| 09:08.46 | Maru_ | Only short, measurable goals are feasable atm |
| 09:08.49 | bobbens | but I don't really have that opportunity |
| 09:08.57 | bobbens | because I'm a lowly industrial engineer |
| 09:09.03 | bobbens | totaly regret not doing theoretical mathematics |
| 09:09.19 | kai | |Kev|: it's around seven years of your life ;) |
| 09:09.27 | |Kev| | kai: Seven? o_O |
| 09:09.29 | thebolt | |Kev|: i have totally stopped having long term goals (more than maybe a year away) |
| 09:09.31 | bobbens | longer here :) |
| 09:09.34 | Maru_ | bobbens: Why not go back to school? |
| 09:09.38 | bobbens | 9-10 usually :) |
| 09:09.55 | thebolt | reality tends to change enough so that goals become invalid within that timeframe :P |
| 09:09.55 | |Kev| | How on earth can you spend 10 years on one thesis? :) |
| 09:09.55 | bobbens | well I might do a master in mathematics |
| 09:10.10 | bobbens | |Kev|: our "degree" is minimum 5 years, average 6-7 |
| 09:10.11 | kai | http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=1296 |
| 09:10.13 | Maru_ | there you go |
| 09:10.16 | bobbens | then you have a 4 year phd+master |
| 09:10.22 | kai | |Kev|: ^^^ |
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| 09:10.27 | bobbens | so you usually finish at 30 :) |
| 09:10.33 | |Kev| | bobbens: Ah, so you're cheating by counting the undergrad and masters in with the PhD :) |
| 09:10.56 | kai | bobbens: I was just counting phd :) |
| 09:11.05 | bobbens | |Kev|: master is actually the "formation" part of the phd here |
| 09:11.09 | bobbens | you start master+phd at the same time |
| 09:11.09 | Maru_ | I'm having a tough time deciding between CS, Computer Engineering, Mathematics, Physics. All very interesting. |
| 09:11.17 | |Kev| | I skipped a masters, just did BSc->PhD. |
| 09:11.21 | |Kev| | So I was in and out in 7 years. |
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| 09:11.34 | bobbens | well that's a different system |
| 09:11.41 | bobbens | here you have to do 5 year degree + master + phd |
| 09:11.46 | |Kev| | Should have been 6, but I left writing my thesis until five weeks before the end of the 4th year of the PhD :) |
| 09:12.05 | bobbens | and the worst part is |
| 09:12.05 | |Kev| | Thank goodness for papers :) |
| 09:12.12 | bobbens | the rest of the world sees my degree as a Bsc :) |
| 09:12.34 | bobbens | so I'm finishing my "BSc" thesis and after 6 years outside of spain I only have a BSc :) |
| 09:14.12 | thebolt | Maru_: so had i, which is why i have a dobule major (msc) in applied physics and electrical engineering ;) |
| 09:14.36 | Maru_ | thebolt: completed in 4 years? |
| 09:15.44 | Maru_ | thebolt: I wish my curriculum had more flexibility to acommodate my other interests. I might consider graduating late to pursue what I'm interested in. |
| 09:15.49 | thebolt | Maru_: well, our system in sweden is 5 years for bsc+msc and currently changing.. |
| 09:16.06 | thiago_home | European 3-5-8 |
| 09:16.13 | Maru_ | I see. We have a 5 year BS-MS program as well |
| 09:16.17 | thebolt | (when i began it was 5 years, no way to get a bsc and be done with it, now it is changing to 3+2 as per european standard) |
| 09:16.48 | Maru_ | thebolt: bsc? |
| 09:16.49 | bobbens | thebolt: except spain which is "special" and has opted for 4+2 or 4+1 or other bastardized versions not compatible with rest of europe :) |
| 09:17.06 | thiago_home | France also has some weird 2+3 settings |
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| 09:17.26 | Maru_ | thebolt: we just call it a bs =/ |
| 09:17.48 | thebolt | Maru_: whatever, never had one so doesn't matter to me :P |
| 09:19.43 | Maru_ | thebolt: so where does the applied physics come into play in your work? |
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| 09:24.23 | thebolt | Maru_: well, right now i am developing the fflight control software of an UAV.. you got some applied physics in there ;) |
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| 09:24.52 | Maru_ | thebolt: That's pretty sweet. A defense contract? |
| 09:25.08 | thebolt | Maru_: no, totally civilian project |
| 09:25.15 | bobbens | thebolt: type of UAV? |
| 09:25.22 | thebolt | and for a company i co-own (and am the CTO of ;) |
| 09:25.39 | thebolt | bobbens: multirotor thingy for professional video & photography |
| 09:25.50 | Maru_ | thebolt: link? |
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| 09:26.11 | thebolt | Maru_: nothing to see on the web yet ;) |
| 09:26.15 | bobbens | thebolt: by multirotor you mean quadrotor? or something fancier :) |
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| 09:27.36 | thebolt | bobbens: somewhat fancier, but same idea |
| 09:28.25 | bobbens | well quadrotor has been really studied, so that would eb easier to do |
| 09:28.35 | bobbens | there's a great phd thesis on the control from eth zurich |
| 09:28.41 | bobbens | I enjoyed it :) |
| 09:28.43 | thebolt | there are tons of thesis about it |
| 09:28.49 | bobbens | underactuated systems are fun :) |
| 09:28.52 | thebolt | but still not a "solved problem" |
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| 09:29.46 | bobbens | you can't really "solve" an underactuated system, just propose non-linear control rules and how to deal with the dynamics |
| 09:29.54 | bobbens | but I'd consider quadrotors pretty much solved :) |
| 09:30.05 | thebolt | i mean solved in the sense "there is a best way to do it and everyone agrees it is the best way" |
| 09:30.25 | bobbens | thebolt: that's a utopia, everyone thinks the best way is the one that has to do with their research :P |
| 09:30.29 | thebolt | still haven't begun designing the control system (still at the state estimation phase) |
| 09:31.03 | bobbens | but for the control rules, I more or less see always the sames |
| 09:31.11 | bobbens | they map yaw, pitch, roll and z directly |
| 09:31.22 | bobbens | for controlling x and y there's generally more opinions |
| 09:32.03 | thebolt | well, the control depends a bit on what you are after |
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| 09:32.44 | Maru_ | I guess applied physics is nice to have in 3D engine dev =) |
| 09:33.03 | thebolt | Maru_: well, i did more 3d engine stuff before i started my university life ;) |
| 09:33.09 | thebolt | (compared to after) |
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| 09:33.28 | thebolt | but yea, i used to do game physics (dynamics) for work for two years almost.. |
| 09:33.42 | Maru_ | I was thinking of starting with Python in game dev |
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| 09:37.38 | Maru_ | Crystalspace seems really cool, but one probably needs prior experience with game dev to fare well rather than just coding exp in general |
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| 09:43.21 | eakuefner | I'm really excited at the prospect of doing GSoC |
| 09:44.00 | eakuefner | I'll be doing 9 hours a week volunteering for 6 weeks in June-July but I feel like GSoC should still be feasible even with that |
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| 11:51.20 | vikas_mhj | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:51.52 | alex3f | vikas_mhj: without space before /msg :) |
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| 11:52.18 | ajedwards | vikas_mhj, I suggest making calls to nickserv in the status window to prevent the above happening in future :) |
| 11:52.40 | kai | also, I'd use a better password :) |
| 11:52.51 | vikas_mhj | thanks.. |
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| 11:53.39 | _-BlackDragon-_ | that reminds me of - http://www.bash.org/?244321 |
| 11:54.06 | alex3f | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:54.17 | svaksha | geez |
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| 11:55.38 | ojwb | sadly I knew what that would be before looking |
| 11:55.58 | svaksha | and logged for eternity |
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| 11:56.38 | alex3f | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:56.48 | alex3f | but we all know which was first |
| 11:57.28 | |Kev| | So, speaking of which, /part and /quit were on the wall. |
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| 11:57.37 | |Kev| | /part fell off - who was left? |
| 11:57.38 | svaksha | alex3f: maybe its a genuine mistake by someone new to irc? |
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| 11:57.53 | |Kev| | etc. |
| 11:58.06 | alex3f | lol |
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| 11:58.28 | alex3f | svaksha: maybe. but what I meant was the **** joke |
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| 11:58.42 | in3xes | lol |
| 11:58.45 | svaksha | ak, k |
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| 11:59.08 | |Kev| | Or, for those people with command-shortening clients: Hay guys, try out this cool easter egg. Type '/disco lights' in your client. |
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| 11:59.11 | |Kev| | The hilarity never ends. |
| 11:59.11 | kai | /quit was left of course |
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| 12:42.42 | dberkholz | bobbens: i'm not sure gsoc really falls into the same class as generic "coding at home" -- you have supervision, you're paid for your work, and you're accountable for its completion. it's more like telecommuting. |
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| 12:44.08 | kai | hey SRabbelier|Lappy |
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| 12:44.29 | bobbens | dberkholz: when some of the lead researchers here read my curriculum, the first thing they asked was if I did it remotely and mentioned it did "lose points" for being so |
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| 12:44.50 | bobbens | losing points meaning being less competitive than the alternative |
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| 12:44.56 | bobbens | when say competing for a scholarship |
| 12:45.30 | kai | looking at some jobs that I've done, I'd say gsoc was more "real development work" than other stuff |
| 12:45.37 | |Kev| | bobbens: Everyone has different prejudices. |
| 12:45.59 | |Kev| | Some people won't employ people with a PhD, some people think it's a great thing. |
| 12:46.17 | bobbens | |Kev|: well this is for "pure academia" which I believe is what <1% of the people here may be interested in (including myself) |
| 12:46.36 | |Kev| | Some people don't like you working from home, while at my last job they used to tell me not to come into the office for a couple of days if they needed me to be especially productive. |
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| 12:47.24 | kai | I like being in the lab because I have more excuses to goof off |
| 12:47.27 | kai | :) |
| 12:47.33 | |Kev| | I don't think prejudices arer any less varied in academia than elsewhere. |
| 12:47.38 | SRabbelier|Lappy | kai: hi |
| 12:47.39 | dberkholz | bobbens: it's kind of like being in a trial. the other side gives you the shortest possible chance to look good by asking a yes/no question, but you need to answer with an explanation of why it shouldn't "lose points" |
| 12:47.56 | kai | like going to fix the shaker cooling system instead of real work |
| 12:48.29 | |Kev| | I have more things to goof off with at home than I used to have in the lab. |
| 12:48.36 | |Kev| | I somehow manage to mostly not do so :) |
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| 12:49.11 | kai | |Kev|: sure, same here. but at home I feel guilty if I goof off, at work I was fixing the shaker for my co-workers |
| 12:49.59 | kai | fixing lab equipment isn't part of my job description |
| 12:50.02 | dberkholz | there's a term for that |
| 12:50.07 | dberkholz | structured procrastination or something |
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| 12:50.29 | dberkholz | you put off things that need to be done by doing things that need to be done, rather than just wasting time on irc |
| 12:50.30 | |Kev| | kai: Right :) |
| 12:50.46 | |Kev| | dberkholz: I'm not wasting time on IRC, I'm supporting students in GSoC. |
| 12:50.48 | ojwb | dberkholz: damn you, now I need to got and look up the term for that |
| 12:50.50 | |Kev| | It's all about terminology :) |
| 12:51.08 | dberkholz | ojwb: i got it right =) |
| 12:51.11 | dberkholz | http://www.structuredprocrastination.com/ |
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| 12:52.52 | dberkholz | |Kev|: get to writing our antipatterns instead. =P |
| 12:53.10 | |Kev| | dberkholz: Yeah, I need to do that. |
| 12:53.30 | |Kev| | I'm debugging stuff atm, thus throwing some lines at IRC while "It's compiling!". |
| 12:54.17 | aghisla | there is a xkcd comic on compilation |
| 12:54.27 | |Kev| | Yes, that's why I quoted. |
| 12:54.40 | thebolt | thinks every nerd with some self-resepct have seen that at least once.. |
| 12:54.41 | dberkholz | i started a little work on the intro |
| 12:54.42 | aghisla | http://xkcd.com/303/ |
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| 12:55.04 | dberkholz | i'll see if i can get a complete intro draft at some point today |
| 12:55.10 | |Kev| | thebolt: and many without. |
| 12:55.17 | |Kev| | thebolt: and many without. |
| 12:55.20 | |Kev| | Erm. |
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| 12:55.23 | |Kev| | dberkholz: sterling, thanks. |
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| 12:58.49 | thebolt | |Kev|: yes, true |
| 12:59.21 | SRabbelier|Lappy | dberkholz: nice one |
| 13:00.06 | |Kev| | Oh, editing is in-progress at the moment! |
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| 13:02.18 | |Kev| | Ok, I'll have a look at this later today. |
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| 13:06.04 | sgm | Hi |
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| 13:24.36 | ravenlock | if I was unable to attend the "rejected Orgs meeting"... should I just contact carols directly? (IM?, e-mail?) |
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| 13:26.09 | ojwb | ravenlock: probably - she's not here, so email's best |
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| 13:30.29 | ravenlock | nods |
| 13:30.29 | ravenlock | ty |
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| 13:32.27 | rahuln | hi |
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| 13:36.58 | sagi_ | hi |
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| 13:44.08 | rohit_nsit08 | hello everyone |
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| 13:57.44 | rohit_nsit08 | hi is someone interested in working for chrome? |
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| 13:58.48 | kai | !anyone |
| 13:58.48 | socinfo | kai: "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. Try searching for the org's contact info or even just try a /join #<mentoring org here> |
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| 14:06.34 | virous | is there anyone from php my admin |
| 14:06.45 | svaksha | !anyone |
| 14:06.45 | socinfo | svaksha: "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. Try searching for the org's contact info or even just try a /join #<mentoring org here> |
| 14:06.51 | svaksha | virous: ^^ |
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| 14:07.36 | virous | Flexible column width rfe:939233 |
| 14:07.36 | virous | Column edit rfe:1394312 |
| 14:07.37 | virous | Edit only selected fields rfe:1725551 |
| 14:07.37 | virous | Jump to recent table rfe:2098927 |
| 14:07.37 | virous | Mouse-based column reordering during browsing |
| 14:07.39 | virous | More column sorting choices (based on rfe:2972985) |
| 14:07.41 | virous | Store the last way you sorted your table (based on rfe:3078542) |
| 14:07.50 | virous | is this the idea 's |
| 14:08.57 | ojwb | virous: this isn't the place to ask |
| 14:09.13 | ojwb | chances are there's nobody from phpmyadmin here at all |
| 14:09.51 | virous | ojwb, so where to intemate |
| 14:10.09 | ojwb | see what socinfo said above |
| 14:10.16 | svaksha | virous: and please use a pastebin (in the appropriate technical chan) whenever its more than 3 lines of code |
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| 14:15.44 | |Kev| | svaksha: That depends on local policy whether you should do that. Certainly for in here. In my chat room I'd rather people didn't (because it has an auto pastebin). |
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| 14:17.08 | svaksha | |Kev|: which channel is that? |
| 14:17.19 | |Kev| | xmpp:swift@rooms.swift.im?join |
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| 14:18.41 | svaksha | |Kev|: so folks dont mind a scrolling screen full of code :P |
| 14:18.42 | Nightrose | |Kev|: dberkholz: added some stuff as well - feel free to improve wording or add things i missed |
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| 14:19.36 | |Kev| | svaksha: Read what I said. |
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| 14:20.09 | |Kev| | Nightrose: Thanks - I'm back doing dayjob stuff for a bit, I'll have another look at it later. |
| 14:20.20 | Nightrose | sure |
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| 14:20.46 | rahuln | hey nightrose |
| 14:20.52 | Nightrose | hi |
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| 14:21.19 | rahuln | which organisations you looking for? |
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| 14:22.21 | Nightrose | me? none ;-) |
| 14:22.24 | Nightrose | i am admin for kde |
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| 14:22.50 | rahuln | ohkk |
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| 14:23.20 | prprabhu | ojwb: you are not available on xwiki? |
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| 14:34.31 | dberkholz | Nightrose: will do, i've got the same day-job issues as |Kev| =) |
| 14:34.39 | Nightrose | heh same here |
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| 14:34.46 | Nightrose | though trying to avoid it :D |
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| 14:35.02 | prprabhu | arey there any GSOC mentors here? I wanted to discuss "improved spell checker" project.. I have ideas to discuss in continuation with yesterday's discussion with ojwb |
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| 14:35.25 | |Kev| | !anyone |
| 14:35.25 | socinfo | |Kev|: "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. Try searching for the org's contact info or even just try a /join #<mentoring org here> |
| 14:35.40 | ojwb | prprabhu: um did you mean #xapian? |
| 14:35.54 | rbl | hi i want to discuss about the abi word project |
| 14:36.13 | rbl | aby mentors out there? |
| 14:36.15 | ojwb | has no involvement with xwiki |
| 14:36.15 | prprabhu | ojwb: yes. I apologize posting it into wrong channel. |
| 14:36.18 | ojwb | !anyone |
| 14:36.18 | socinfo | ojwb: "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. Try searching for the org's contact info or even just try a /join #<mentoring org here> |
| 14:36.22 | ojwb | rbl ^^ |
| 14:36.32 | |Kev| | rbl: Please read the comment two lines above your question. |
| 14:37.09 | rbl | Kev :thanks a lot |
| 14:39.47 | rbl | so what are we discussing out here |
| 14:39.47 | rbl | ? |
| 14:39.53 | rbl | aby experienced members? |
| 14:39.58 | rbl | any* |
| 14:41.36 | ojwb | general gsoc stuff |
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| 14:42.01 | rbl | so any tips for new people |
| 14:42.04 | rbl | ? |
| 14:42.08 | rbl | please |
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| 14:42.24 | ojwb | the student guide is worth reading |
| 14:42.34 | rbl | have gone through it |
| 14:42.37 | mmlevitt | Tips & Valuable starting points for potential students: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2011 |
| 14:43.10 | rbl | how to choose from so large number of organisations?? |
| 14:43.12 | rbl | :( |
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| 14:43.13 | ojwb | not sure what to add over that |
| 14:43.22 | mmlevitt | gsoc site written in GWT on Google App Engine--very cool! |
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| 14:43.52 | ojwb | i guess pick something you enjoy, and an org that seem friendly, as you'll be spending 12 weeks + working on it and with them |
| 14:44.23 | rbl | but licking only 1 org sounds risky |
| 14:44.34 | rbl | picking* |
| 14:44.51 | rbl | i think selecting 2-3 is better |
| 14:45.13 | mmlevitt | i think student guide says diversification, multiple applications, and high quality apps lead to good gsoc students. |
| 14:45.28 | SukhE | rbl: only if you can maintain the quality of your application(s). |
| 14:45.29 | Nightrose | as long as you don't overdo it yes |
| 14:45.50 | dberkholz | 2-3 is a pretty reasonable number. i've never seen anyone apply for more than 5 and have them actually be good |
| 14:45.57 | |Kev| | I would suggest two or three applications |
| 14:46.04 | |Kev| | Heh, what dberkholz said. |
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| 14:46.20 | rbl | but how to choose 2-3 from such a lot |
| 14:46.39 | mmlevitt | sounds like a plan 2 me! |
| 14:46.43 | |Kev| | rbl: Same as any other job, you'll just have to research :) |
| 14:46.54 | SukhE | rbl: You should be able to say to yourself, 'I want to work with them, they are awesome.' |
| 14:47.00 | gevaerts | rbl: surely that's not more difficult than choosing one? :) |
| 14:47.00 | ojwb | the tags in the list of orgs are a good starting place |
| 14:47.15 | pygi | dberkholz: I did 10! |
| 14:47.16 | pygi | once :D |
| 14:47.22 | pygi | I'd say none were good tho :D |
| 14:47.32 | mmlevitt | I am very interested in my gsoc mentors-2-B! |
| 14:47.59 | dberkholz | start with orgs you've heard of, and orgs with relevant tags, then narrow it down to a few |
| 14:48.04 | |Kev| | mmlevitt: Your 'mentors to be' will greatly appreciate you not using textspeak. |
| 14:48.16 | rbl | gevaerts : :D |
| 14:48.25 | mmlevitt | honestly, I have 1 main mentor that I am pursuing and a plan B |
| 14:48.47 | mmlevitt | oh? textspeak is lol, brb, etc? |
| 14:49.14 | brik | mmlevitt: "2 b" |
| 14:49.17 | gevaerts | mmlevitt: and '2' for 'to' or 'too', 'u', 'ur', ... |
| 14:49.18 | rbl | where do i have brighter chances of getting in?? i mean any such org r there? |
| 14:49.19 | |Kev| | Replacing words with numbers, using 'b' instead of 'be' etc. |
| 14:49.27 | |Kev| | !odds |
| 14:49.27 | socinfo | |Kev|: "odds" is Odds, chances or probability really do not come into play for GSoC. Rambling off numbers or asking What are the odds of getting accepted... is really quite useless as one's acceptance is not dictated by luck or numbers, but by the quality of your proposal and your skills instead. |
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| 14:49.35 | gevaerts | And remember, the answer to "to be or not to be" is -1 |
| 14:49.47 | dberkholz | there's a small subset of ones that are allowed. mainly ones that save multiple words rather than a couple of letters |
| 14:49.50 | koda|gsoc | google code and google documents are down? D: |
| 14:50.05 | dberkholz | acronyms, not just shortening a word |
| 14:50.06 | gevaerts | dberkholz: that's acronyms :) |
| 14:50.07 | |Kev| | gevaerts: nnk. It's unsigned, obviously. |
| 14:50.09 | koda|gsoc | as soon as i pressed enter, they went online again... |
| 14:50.33 | |Kev| | koda|gsoc: We have a clear basis for cause and effect here. |
| 14:50.38 | |Kev| | Try pressing enter again :) |
| 14:50.42 | gevaerts | |Kev|: I don't see how that's obvious? |
| 14:51.07 | |Kev| | gevaerts: Well, it's not, of course :) |
| 14:51.14 | koda|gsoc | D: |
| 14:51.27 | gevaerts | points to http://xkcd.com/552/ just in case some people haven't seen that yet |
| 14:51.28 | |Kev| | Well, except that you're switching bases, so the right answer should really be FF. |
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| 14:51.47 | gevaerts | Well, FF isn't wrong, that's trye |
| 14:51.49 | gevaerts | *true |
| 14:51.58 | |Kev| | gevaerts: You will be *amazed* to know that I had seen it ;) |
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| 14:52.18 | gevaerts | |Kev|: but do you have the tshirt? :) |
| 14:52.27 | |Kev| | No :( |
| 14:52.34 | gevaerts | does :) |
| 14:52.54 | |Kev| | My geeky t-shirts all predate that. |
| 14:53.16 | mmlevitt | @dberkholz which acronyms are allowed? |
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| 14:53.32 | |Kev| | mmlevitt: Pretty much all common ones, I'd have thought. |
| 14:53.39 | gevaerts | got it together with the signed book |
| 14:53.47 | |Kev| | gevaerts: Oh, good show. |
| 14:53.47 | dberkholz | mmlevitt: pretty much anything that is a true acronym, and not just removing letters or using numbers instead |
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| 14:54.09 | dberkholz | mmlevitt: brb, fyi, fwiw, and so on |
| 14:54.44 | dberkholz | but not "tch me 2 aply 4 gsoc" |
| 14:55.02 | gevaerts | dberkholz: don't do that again, please! |
| 14:55.07 | mmlevitt | with twitter generation and text-tifying any communication, this is the first I've heard of eithical and readable syntax for communication--fascinating! |
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| 14:55.56 | dberkholz | the basic premise is that we have keyboards and no real character limit, so we don't need to save thumb presses like on a cell phone |
| 14:55.59 | SukhE | mmlevitt: With Twitter there is a character limit. Also text speak makes it hard to read. |
| 14:56.00 | gevaerts | |Kev|: the first book I got was unsigned due to something going wrong, so I had to send an email asking for a cast |
| 14:56.02 | ojwb | touches dberkholz |
| 14:56.15 | dberkholz | oh yeah. |
| 14:56.38 | dberkholz | gevaerts: did the author proceed to break your arm? |
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| 14:57.46 | gevaerts | dberkholz: no, I just got another copy, that one allowing negative values |
| 14:58.17 | mmlevitt | irc is new to me. Rules learned are acronyms are in, while consonant removal and word shortening are out--THANK YOU @dberkholz |
| 14:58.50 | gevaerts | mmlevitt: oh, prefixing names with @ isn't commonly done on IRC :) |
| 14:59.41 | mmlevitt | ok. thank you for helping me with IRC Methods!! will be afk, soon. |
| 15:00.28 | brlcad | puts the finishing touched on our brl-cad org-specific flyer: http://brlcad.org/gsoc/BRL-CAD_GSoC2011_flyer.pdf |
| 15:00.35 | brlcad | s/touched/touches/ |
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| 15:01.23 | dberkholz | brlcad: lol, just about in time for next year. =D |
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| 15:02.35 | brlcad | dberkholz: we always do them before submissions but after org announcements |
| 15:02.45 | brlcad | don't want to be presumptive that we'd get accepted |
| 15:03.01 | brlcad | and waste time if we're not |
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| 15:03.17 | dberkholz | yeah, i asked carol about pushing the first bits of the timeline earlier for next year, for various reasons including that |
| 15:03.50 | dberkholz | 1 week to advertise, when you want to students who get involved in your community early, is not optimal |
| 15:03.58 | brlcad | yeah |
| 15:03.59 | dberkholz | want students* |
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| 15:05.54 | brlcad | I've seen it more as just a tradition of participating, fun and quick to make something cool that we can then point to years after |
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| 15:06.23 | gevaerts | brlcad: surely it wouldn't be a waste of time to do it in advance then? ;) |
| 15:07.18 | brlcad | if we weren't accepted it would still be .. pointing back to a flyer for a program we didn't participate in isn't very useful or fun :) |
| 15:07.42 | brlcad | kinda defeats the tradition aspect |
| 15:07.49 | gevaerts | But you didn't say that pointing to it would have to be fun! |
| 15:07.51 | gevaerts | Oh well |
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| 15:08.47 | brlcad | more like a self-generated certificate of participation |
| 15:09.15 | dberkholz | brlcad: there sure are a lot of spotlights in that room with the tank |
| 15:09.31 | dberkholz | is that the full 8? |
| 15:09.33 | brlcad | it's only a good reminder if you participate, otherwise it's like being given a picture of a big check you cannot deposit :) |
| 15:10.04 | brlcad | I forget how many lights that student added in there .. might have been 16 lights |
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| 15:11.27 | brlcad | measured, modeled, and rendered from scratch by a student all in brl-cad over a summer |
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| 15:12.22 | aditya_ | hey all |
| 15:12.33 | brlcad | hello aditya_ |
| 15:12.45 | aditya_ | ihello |
| 15:13.07 | aditya_ | i want to know can multiple students work on same project in gsoc |
| 15:13.14 | logiclord | so do i |
| 15:13.22 | dberkholz | they can't cooperate, they can compete independently on the same one |
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| 15:13.57 | logiclord | is it possible that 1 work for a certain aspect and 2nd one on other |
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| 15:14.07 | dberkholz | sure, then it's not the same project |
| 15:14.16 | |Kev| | logiclord: Yes, as long as there are no interdependencies. |
| 15:14.36 | |Kev| | The project must work if one student doesn't submit any code, and the other does. |
| 15:14.56 | |Kev| | They can't each do half of a feature, where the two halves need each other. |
| 15:14.57 | gevaerts | logiclord: in general, if one student dropping out or being (much) slower than expected impacts another student, there's a problem |
| 15:15.45 | logiclord | thanks all |
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| 15:25.02 | aditya_ | thanks very much for your kind suppory |
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| 15:49.48 | Triskelios | can users apply to be mentors on Melange themselves or must they be invited by an admin? |
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| 15:51.10 | rahul | Hi, as a mentor, I have a question about the text found here http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/site/site/studentallocations |
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| 15:51.38 | kai | Triskelios: they can apply themselves, but I think it's currently disabled while a new webUI is rolled out |
| 15:51.51 | kai | rahul: hang on |
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| 15:52.19 | rahul | kai: ok, thanks |
| 15:52.26 | Triskelios | kai: ah, do you know how long it might be before the functionality is restored? |
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| 15:53.51 | kai | Triskelios: no idea, maybe ask on #melange |
| 15:54.04 | kai | rahul: any specific questions? |
| 15:54.41 | rahul | kai: Yes, the text says "However, we always cap the number of **applications** an organization will receive at the total of their requested number of projects, since we don't want to assign an organization more students than they can support." |
| 15:54.59 | rahul | kai: Is that a typo, should it be allocations instead of applications? |
| 15:55.00 | kai | ah, I think they mean slots |
| 15:55.05 | kai | yeah |
| 15:55.10 | Triskelios | kai: okay, thanks! |
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| 15:55.24 | rahul | kai: great, cos otherwise it is quite weird. |
| 15:55.29 | kai | yeah |
| 15:55.45 | kai | you might want to file a bug about this :) |
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| 16:01.31 | _shady_ | any one from openintents here ? |
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| 16:03.50 | rahul | kai: I reported it and it has been fixed!! |
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| 16:04.11 | sfb | !anyone |
| 16:04.11 | Talad | Hi |
| 16:04.11 | socinfo | sfb: "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. Try searching for the org's contact info or even just try a /join #<mentoring org here> |
| 16:04.20 | Talad | any idea when the system will allow mentors to register? |
| 16:04.22 | Talad | "We have temporarily disabled the creation of new requests and invites in preparation of the launch of the new UI for Melange later this week." |
| 16:04.25 | Talad | I still get this message |
| 16:04.28 | Talad | since last week |
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| 16:11.01 | sfb | Talad: I've been wondering that as well. |
| 16:11.26 | Talad | I guess we just have to wait |
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| 16:11.27 | Talad | :) |
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| 16:11.59 | anth_r | i'm under the impression that's expected later *this* week. there was mail somewhere to that effect. |
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| 16:13.00 | sfb | anth_r: Yah, I was just checking melange-soc |
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| 16:23.20 | rrix | Why's melange blocking mentors from applying during the one time they need to apply? :) |
| 16:23.32 | rrix | has a small handful of mentors saying that they get: |
| 16:23.32 | rrix | "We have temporarily disabled the creation of new requests and invites |
| 16:23.32 | rrix | in preparation of the launch of the new UI for Melange later this week." |
| 16:23.48 | |Kev| | rrix: I'll go out on a limb and say it's ready for launching the new UI. |
| 16:24.02 | rrix | |Kev|: seems like a bad time to do that, but that's just me |
| 16:24.17 | |Kev| | Mentors don't need to apply yet. |
| 16:24.25 | rrix | Well, okay |
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| 16:24.31 | rrix | goes back to his hole |
| 16:25.08 | gevaerts | rrix: I assume the new UI fixes enough problems that it's worth the slight annoyance now |
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| 16:31.15 | rohit_nsit08 | hello , i was interested in working for chrome, is there someone else working on this , and also some of the proposed ideas also |
| 16:31.20 | |Kev| | !anyone |
| 16:31.20 | socinfo | |Kev|: "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. Try searching for the org's contact info or even just try a /join #<mentoring org here> |
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| 16:35.32 | kai | rrix: a worse time would be during the program, or during student application/rating |
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| 17:04.34 | sumanah | Some GSoC mentoring organizations advertising themselves here: http://geekfeminism.org/2011/03/18/gf-classifieds-google-summer-of-code-2011-edition/ |
| 17:05.21 | sumanah | I hadn't heard of PySoy |
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| 17:06.09 | Ophiuchi | dito. anyone know if there are any games for PySoy already? |
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| 17:06.41 | Anubisss | guys, Can I apply if I on passive semester? |
| 17:07.55 | Ophiuchi | Anubisss: I can't answer authoritatively, but afair you just need to be signed up at your school. If it's eg good enough for your health insurance, it should be good enough for Google. |
| 17:08.41 | Anubisss | ahh, see |
| 17:08.46 | Anubisss | thanks |
| 17:09.39 | sumanah | Any PHP coders looking for a project? http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2011#Project_ideas |
| 17:09.46 | sumanah | (I am the org admin for MediaWiki) |
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| 17:25.03 | carols | serves some tea and coffee |
| 17:25.23 | brlcad | mmm. |
| 17:25.27 | Myth17 | gets cookies along |
| 17:25.39 | rbuels | o_O |
| 17:25.57 | aghisla | adds waffels |
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| 17:26.10 | carols | thanks aghisla :-) |
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| 17:32.33 | kblin | hmm, food |
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| 17:33.39 | gevaerts | adds chocolate |
| 17:33.43 | gevaerts | Yay, tea! |
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| 17:35.38 | kblin | wonders which GCI org might sponsor a gsoc-meeting-queue module for socinfo |
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| 17:45.36 | shadeslayer | carols: around? :) |
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| 17:47.38 | carols | shadeslayer: yep, just busy :-) |
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| 17:48.04 | shadeslayer | carols: ok, can you just send me the reason why ubuntu wasn't accepted this time? I'd like to know :D |
| 17:48.13 | carols | shadeslayer: did you email me? |
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| 17:48.25 | shadeslayer | email you .. about .. ? |
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| 17:48.36 | |Kev| | shadeslayer was in the queue last night, but had gone when the turn came around. |
| 17:48.43 | shadeslayer | yep ... |
| 17:48.51 | carols | shadeslayer: please email me with your question and I'll get back to you |
| 17:48.51 | shadeslayer | it was quite late and i had to sleep :) |
| 17:48.56 | shadeslayer | sure :) |
| 17:49.01 | carols | thanks |
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| 17:49.26 | |Kev| | Ubuntu were in the queue but absent, as were OSWINDS, JFYI. |
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| 17:50.24 | carols | thanks |Kev| |
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| 17:54.38 | shadeslayer | done :) |
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| 17:56.27 | Atlantic777 | Hi! Anybody from east Europe? :) |
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| 17:59.55 | Digital-Pioneer | Rawr. |
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| 18:12.25 | CrawfordComeaux_ | If GSoC offered a BNC server for mentors/students, that'd be awesome :) |
| 18:13.59 | dberkholz | gentoo does, for our students |
| 18:14.17 | dberkholz | everybody gets an account on our gsoc server |
| 18:14.57 | |Kev| | CrawfordComeaux_: You only want a BNC? Everyone should have at least their own VPS :) |
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| 18:14.59 | dberkholz | not bnc technically, but it works like a charm for irssi+screen |
| 18:15.06 | bobbens | let me guess, you're not referring to the coaxial connector? |
| 18:15.12 | bobbens | is getting old |
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| 18:15.21 | amstan | i didn't have much luck with bnc |
| 18:15.29 | dberkholz | bobbens: bnc is like an irc proxy that stays connected when you aren't |
| 18:15.35 | |Kev| | screen(irssi) > bnc. |
| 18:15.39 | bobbens | mmm |
| 18:15.44 | dberkholz | a bouncer, thus bnc... |
| 18:15.46 | bobbens | yeah I use screen + irssi on a german vserver |
| 18:15.48 | amstan | |Kev|: it's not, unless you really like irssi |
| 18:15.50 | bobbens | everyone thinks I'm german |
| 18:16.02 | amstan | i prefer the flexibility of using your own client |
| 18:16.12 | |Kev| | Right, irssi is my client of choice :) |
| 18:16.13 | bobbens | err |
| 18:16.16 | bobbens | weechat |
| 18:17.00 | |Kev| | Ironic, as one person does frequent this channel with a client I wrote (XMPP client throug ha transport) and I don't ) |
| 18:17.03 | |Kev| | :) |
| 18:17.19 | |Kev| | Hmm, unconvinced that's irony, actually. |
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| 18:18.59 | CrawfordComeaux_ | To what extent can projects be rescoped during the summer, if at all? ie. if initial project definition winds up being to large for summer completion. |
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| 18:19.19 | bobbens | as long as mentor gives thumbs up it works afaik |
| 18:19.25 | |Kev| | CrawfordComeaux_: Almost entirely at the org's discretion :) |
| 18:19.32 | bobbens | so that's up to the org and the mentor |
| 18:19.33 | bobbens | r |
| 18:19.41 | bobbens | mmm, lag spike |
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| 18:19.43 | bobbens | joy of ssh :) |
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| 18:31.38 | ravenlock | carols: ping |
| 18:31.52 | carols | ravenlock: pong |
| 18:31.59 | ravenlock | sorry... just sent you e-mail as I did notice you in here |
| 18:32.08 | carols | ravenlock: email is better right now |
| 18:32.11 | ravenlock | I was unable to attend the "rejected orgs" meetin |
| 18:32.13 | ravenlock | g++ |
| 18:32.20 | ravenlock | oh. ok. |
| 18:32.31 | ravenlock | no time to discuss atm?? |
| 18:32.37 | carols | i'll respond as soon as I'm able. I'm currently a t 92 emails that need |
| 18:32.40 | carols | responding to |
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| 18:32.52 | ravenlock | ok. thank you. :) |
| 18:32.56 | carols | you're welcome |
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| 18:35.31 | dberkholz | carols: don't worry, we'll cover you in here =) |
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| 18:38.33 | carols | thanks dberkholz |
| 18:38.47 | carols | i'm remembering something about a chicken and it's head, but it's not coming to me right now.. |
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| 18:47.06 | MatthewWilkes | carols: Hey, got a sec for a PM? |
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| 18:47.22 | carols | MatthewWilkes: sure |
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| 18:51.06 | Niti | hello |
| 18:51.51 | prime | hi...can anyone explain how we have to propose aour ideas/concept to mentors |
| 18:52.00 | prime | do we also hae to show some working demo |
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| 18:52.48 | Niti | yes..m also not geting ...how to propose the idea...there is no mail id given |
| 18:52.58 | Michitux | prime: simply join their irc channel or write an email, and you don't need a working demo (unless the org explicitely requires that) |
| 18:53.00 | MatthewWilkes | prime: The idea you have should take about all summer to do, if you have a working demo it might be too easy an idea |
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| 18:53.05 | |Kev| | Niti / prime: There should be contact details on the ideas page. |
| 18:53.20 | |Kev| | (For the relevant org) |
| 18:53.24 | Atlantic777 | Try at projects mailing list if you have a new idea for a project. |
| 18:53.38 | Triskelios | usually the mailing list is appropriate |
| 18:54.30 | Michitux | and there should be an email address on the page of the org in google melange |
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| 18:55.38 | Atlantic777 | Are there some papers that we should ask for in our school for applying? I will be out of country in application time so it would be nice to have all papers done before that. :D |
| 18:56.08 | bobbens | Atlantic777: generally it's just your "proof of enrollment" and what classes you're in |
| 18:56.15 | bobbens | if your uni uses moodle, whatever that generates :) |
| 18:56.17 | scorche|sh | Atlantic777: documentation is usually provided after you are accepted |
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| 18:57.14 | Atlantic777 | bobbens: would a „grade book“ (or whatever it is called in English) be ok? |
| 18:57.26 | bobbens | you need your "current classes" |
| 18:57.30 | bobbens | to prove you're currently enrolled |
| 18:57.37 | bobbens | not that you have been enrolled |
| 18:57.49 | bobbens | and you generally have time |
| 18:57.53 | Atlantic777 | ok :) |
| 18:58.03 | bobbens | at worst you won't get the "first payment" on time if you don't send it fast |
| 18:59.34 | Atlantic777 | naah money doesn't matter :P |
| 19:01.10 | bobbens | well just meaning you don't get "kicked out" or something, unless you take _really_ long |
| 19:01.18 | bobbens | it's all about the tshirt anyway |
| 19:01.26 | Atlantic777 | :D |
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| 19:06.20 | sumanah | yay, at least one MediaWiki applicant has already found a project idea and is starting on a proposal! |
| 19:06.39 | bobbens | it's still early :) |
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| 19:07.43 | bhavya | does anyone know about OpenCV having an IRC room |
| 19:08.04 | bobbens | don't think so, only ml iirc |
| 19:08.14 | klickverbot | We've had three guys not yet known in the community ask for details on D project ideas as well – which is nice, because it's the first GSoC for D |
| 19:08.36 | bobbens | klickverbot: wait until the last 3 days of filling out application :P |
| 19:08.49 | Atlantic777 | bhavya: try at #opencv on this server. :D |
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| 19:09.16 | bobbens | that's actually not a bad idea, maybe I sohuld check out opencv projects :P |
| 19:09.35 | bhavya | @atlantic - thanks |
| 19:09.40 | Atlantic777 | np :) |
| 19:09.50 | sumanah | I'm encouraging potential applicants to start looking at our how-to-hack-MediaWiki guide *now* and start familiarizing themselves with the code and opportunities (beat the rush) |
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| 19:10.09 | Atlantic777 | Yeah, OpenCV is cool. |
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| 19:10.37 | Atlantic777 | I've done an project with it and it's super helpful! :D |
| 19:11.09 | bobbens | I've done multiple :) |
| 19:11.16 | bhavya | yeah i'm working with it for 3 years |
| 19:11.20 | bobbens | but computer vision isn't really my thing :) |
| 19:11.28 | bobbens | I like exact sciences :P |
| 19:11.29 | bhavya | it's all i've done in my bachelors |
| 19:11.38 | bhavya | :) |
| 19:11.51 | bhavya | well its subjective |
| 19:11.55 | bobbens | I just dislike having to make lots of hypothesis |
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| 19:12.02 | Atlantic777 | bobbens: how much exact? Is there a project with physics or electronics? I haven't found some... |
| 19:12.15 | bobbens | hypothesis 1: lighting is constant, hypothesis 2: no motion blur, etc... |
| 19:12.23 | bhavya | yeah |
| 19:12.32 | bhavya | but that makes the room for improvement |
| 19:12.39 | bhavya | :) |
| 19:12.39 | bobbens | Atlantic777: depends, scipy maybe or something like that |
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| 19:12.42 | bobbens | but not that much :) |
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| 19:12.54 | bobbens | bhavya: sad thing is, my computer vision code works much better than my theoretical kinematics code |
| 19:12.57 | bobbens | which is an exact science :P |
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| 19:13.22 | bobbens | what good is an exact science if you may have 10^1058 solutions to the problem? :) |
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| 19:13.30 | Atlantic777 | every science with numbers except math :D |
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| 19:13.39 | bobbens | awww, I like math :) |
| 19:13.41 | bhavya | @bobbens - that's fate |
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| 19:13.59 | bobbens | bhavya: yeah, but I have to find a single solution out of those 10^1058 :P |
| 19:14.03 | Atlantic777 | I used to like math. -.- |
| 19:14.08 | bobbens | I like it more and more |
| 19:14.15 | bobbens | and the more I do math, the more I realize I suck at it :P |
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| 19:14.28 | Atlantic777 | The same thing with me... |
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| 19:14.54 | bobbens | Atlantic777: today I just wowed at the fact the clifford algebra Cl(0,1,0) is an isomorphism to complex numbers :P |
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| 19:16.25 | Atlantic777 | How old are you guys? |
| 19:16.34 | Atlantic777 | Girls too if there is some of them. :P |
| 19:16.35 | TyronX | im 25 |
| 19:16.49 | bhavya | i'm 19 |
| 19:16.53 | gevaerts | is |
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| 19:17.30 | kusa | hi all |
| 19:18.12 | Atlantic777 | Hi! |
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| 19:19.25 | kusa | i'm 20 and i'm student at 3iL in Limoges (France), i want to participate to google summer of code. I know c++, qt, and i'm familiar with kde architecture. Can i participate? |
| 19:19.52 | gevaerts | !eligible |
| 19:19.52 | socinfo | gevaerts: "eligible" is Follow this handy flowchart to see if you are eligible http://goo.gl/kvCSv (text version at http://goo.gl/ImfNT) |
| 19:20.00 | gevaerts | kusa: have a look at that link |
| 19:20.07 | amstan | kusa: you probably can, but you don't apply in this channel |
| 19:20.41 | kusa | amstan: i know, it's just for be sure if i have a chance to get admit ;) |
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| 19:21.57 | klickverbot | kusa: You might want to head over to #kde-devel resp. #kde-gsoc for further questions on KDE. |
| 19:22.41 | klickverbot | oops, that should've been #kde-soc |
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| 20:02.00 | puneet | where i can find the list of projects? |
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| 20:03.20 | puneet | can anybody tell me please where i can find the list of projects for gsoc? |
| 20:03.21 | ylfchild | puneet: a list of organizations is here, and there are links to each org's projects: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2011 |
| 20:04.40 | puneet | thanks a lot |
| 20:04.50 | ylfchild | you're welcome :) |
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| 20:08.56 | cbh2000 | Hello everybody! I am interested in participating in the Summer of Code this year, but I have a few questions... |
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| 20:09.28 | prprabhu | go ahead cbh2000 |
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| 20:10.21 | cbh2000 | For one, I have a job that is very unstable as far as a schedule goes, and I am wondering if you think that I should consider temporarily quitting it for the summer... |
| 20:10.34 | cbh2000 | It is full-time, when we have work. |
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| 20:10.56 | cbh2000 | Or, should I pick a project that I can squeeze in? |
| 20:11.28 | dberkholz | full-time jobs are a no-no for pretty much every organization. you might want to take an extended leave of absence, should you get into gsoc |
| 20:11.59 | cbh2000 | That is what I was worried about... |
| 20:12.48 | sumanah | http://www.booki.cc/gsocstudentguide/_v/1.0/writing-a-proposal/ |
| 20:12.58 | sumanah | "GSoC should be treated as a full-time job. If you have more than a few hours a week of extra commitments, you probably should skip GSoC; it is unlikely that you will be successful. In any case, be completely clear about outside time commitments as part of your proposal" |
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| 20:13.35 | cbh2000 | Hmm. I suppose I will have to talk it over with my boss! |
| 20:13.36 | cbh2000 | Thanks! |
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| 20:13.45 | puneet | i am a starter with linux |
| 20:13.55 | cbh2000 | hi |
| 20:14.04 | puneet | so should i look over the gsoc? |
| 20:14.17 | cbh2000 | what are your skills? |
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| 20:14.38 | puneet | i know the languages c++ |
| 20:14.46 | puneet | and some web development languages |
| 20:14.52 | dberkholz | i'd recommend not applying for a linux project, then |
| 20:14.57 | cbh2000 | that is entirely up to you. but if you are looking for an opinion, we are here to give it. |
| 20:14.59 | puneet | like html,css,php,javascript,ajax |
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| 20:15.01 | dberkholz | there are plenty of other organizations |
| 20:15.20 | WhitePearl | i want to apply for vlc and fix some bugs...i know c/c++ and qt |
| 20:15.20 | puneet | actually i wanted to learn about open source |
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| 20:15.25 | cbh2000 | There are ~20 organizations looking for C++ developers... |
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| 20:15.55 | sumanah | puneet: you know PHP? http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2011 |
| 20:15.57 | dberkholz | just search through the tags for your favorite languages, then check out the other tags for that organization to decide if it sounds interesting |
| 20:16.12 | WhitePearl | can any body help me.. |
| 20:16.20 | cbh2000 | @puneet Are you wanting to help a "Linux project," or an "open source project" |
| 20:16.40 | dberkholz | WhitePearl: talk to the people in the places listed here: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/org/show/google/gsoc2011/videolan |
| 20:16.43 | puneet | linux project |
| 20:16.54 | sumanah | why? |
| 20:16.56 | cbh2000 | A distribution? |
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| 20:17.10 | puneet | because i want to learn it |
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| 20:17.55 | puneet | i mean i want to know how the whole os is built |
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| 20:18.13 | puneet | and so wanted to start from somewhere... |
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| 20:18.34 | cbh2000 | Wow. Sounds like me. |
| 20:18.41 | sumanah | puneet: what gave you the idea to start at Google Summer of Code? |
| 20:18.49 | puneet | then my senior suggested me to try if i could do some project over gsoc |
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| 20:19.13 | puneet | and he said it is a good learning experience and to explore your interests |
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| 20:19.27 | puneet | my senior gave me tht |
| 20:19.40 | sumanah | puneet: I suggest you read http://www.booki.cc/gsocstudentguide/_v/1.0/finding-the-right-project/ |
| 20:19.47 | puneet | he was also selected last year in gsoc |
| 20:20.28 | sumanah | puneet: I also suggest you look at the list http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2011 |
| 20:20.59 | puneet | okay thanks |
| 20:21.15 | puneet | can you tell me on what basis are the student selected ? |
| 20:21.36 | sumanah | puneet: have you read any of the documentation yet? on the GSoC website? |
| 20:21.49 | puneet | yes a little |
| 20:22.09 | sumanah | students write proposals, and mentors judge the quality of those proposals. |
| 20:22.10 | puneet | is it only the way we will tell them |
| 20:22.14 | puneet | we will tell them |
| 20:22.39 | puneet | how are we thinking to do the project |
| 20:23.54 | WhitePearl | @sumanah do we write proposals for the new ideas |
| 20:24.15 | WhitePearl | or ask them to allow us fix some bugs or so |
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| 20:24.43 | dberkholz | you guys might want to carefully read the entire student guide linked above as well as every relevant question in the FAQ on google's site. |
| 20:24.45 | sumanah | WhitePearl -- have you read http://www.booki.cc/gsocstudentguide/_v/1.0/finding-the-right-project/ yet? I bet you would find it and the booklet helpful |
| 20:24.47 | Triskelios | WhitePearl: most projects have a list of ideas you can use, but most also encourage entirely new ideas |
| 20:25.29 | puneet | thanks everyone |
| 20:25.55 | WhitePearl | ya i know they provide us the list of ideas..nd also prefer such students for selection who have already shown som interst in their proj by fixing some bugs.. |
| 20:26.10 | WhitePearl | al I want to know is how can i proceed to fix bugs |
| 20:26.26 | sumanah | WhitePearl: sounds like you should ask the relevant hackers! |
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| 20:27.06 | sumanah | WhitePearl: some projects will already have documentation set up, like http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_become_a_MediaWiki_hacker |
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| 20:27.48 | aseem | WhitePearl, read the wiki on your mentor organiztion's site. They have enough information to get you started with fixing the bugs and submitting the patches. |
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| 20:28.51 | WhitePearl | hhmmm...i read for vlc and want to work for it .......dey provided the bug list and the patches have to be submitted using vcs - git |
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| 20:31.26 | dbs | WhitePearl: I suspect the vast majority of projects will want you to use their VCS |
| 20:32.22 | WhitePearl | ya..I have another problem ..i work under proxy and git doesn;t work under proxy |
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| 20:32.33 | WhitePearl | does any1 know proper method |
| 20:32.40 | thiago_home | if you can't get the source code, you're going to be introuble |
| 20:32.41 | WhitePearl | for making it work |
| 20:32.50 | amstan | WhitePearl: use a flash drive |
| 20:32.57 | amstan | WhitePearl: or setup git to use your proxy |
| 20:33.01 | thiago_home | can't you access it from another connection, like at home? |
| 20:33.15 | WhitePearl | i am prsently in college |
| 20:33.28 | amstan | if you can't use their vcs, you're just going to make it more complicated for the other developers |
| 20:33.33 | WhitePearl | amstan- how can i use a flash drive for it |
| 20:33.42 | WhitePearl | i have to commit changes to the tree |
| 20:34.20 | amstan | so.. you clone from somewhere else... put it on a flash drive, work on it at home, then when you want to publish your commits, you put it back on the flash drive, go where there's proper internet and push |
| 20:34.39 | amstan | but the easiest way would be to fix your proxy.. |
| 20:34.45 | amstan | and make git work with it |
| 20:34.53 | amstan | WhitePearl: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&client=ubuntu&channel=cs&ie=UTF-8&q=git+proxy |
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| 20:35.50 | WhitePearl | ddat is impossible for me......to work from home.......i tried to change my bashrc file and change path variables to configure proxy |
| 20:35.59 | WhitePearl | but it doesn;t really works |
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| 20:38.02 | Triskelios | find someone who can lend you a remote system to work on, and do your work over ssh |
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| 20:38.31 | nickbarnesccf | I have a GSOC question. |
| 20:38.36 | thiago_home | if he could ssh, he could get the source code |
| 20:39.23 | nickbarnesccf | Climate Code Foundation is developing climate-science related software, we talk to a lot of climate scientists. |
| 20:39.44 | Triskelios | thiago_home: touche |
| 20:39.50 | nickbarnesccf | If one of these scientists has a Foundation-related project idea, which advances our Foundation goals and is related to some of our code, |
| 20:40.06 | nickbarnesccf | can we work with a student to put it forward as a proposal |
| 20:40.15 | nickbarnesccf | to be mentored by the scientist? |
| 20:40.25 | thiago_home | nickbarnesccf: with the scientist as mentor? |
| 20:40.25 | nickbarnesccf | What sorts of limitations are there on that? |
| 20:40.36 | thiago_home | it sounds ok... |
| 20:40.37 | nickbarnesccf | thiago_home: yes. |
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| 20:40.59 | thiago_home | the choosing of mentors is entirely up to the admins' discretion |
| 20:41.10 | nickbarnesccf | with the scientist mentoring under the CCF umbrella so to speak. |
| 20:41.19 | nickbarnesccf | I figure this has to be OK because a lot of 'organisations' |
| 20:41.24 | nickbarnesccf | are scattered individuals. |
| 20:41.58 | nickbarnesccf | e.g. I could mentor a Bugzilla project, even though I have no formal connection with bugzilla.org. |
| 20:42.13 | nickbarnesccf | and even if it was a completely new codebase which connected somehow to Bugzilla. |
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| 20:42.28 | nickbarnesccf | (I don't know, like an iPhone client or something) |
| 20:43.10 | nickbarnesccf | so if some academic says to us "hey, I have this cool new idea for managing large climate datasets using Python and OpenDAP" |
| 20:43.35 | nickbarnesccf | then in principle we could wrap that up as a CCF project and the academic could mentor it. |
| 20:43.54 | nickbarnesccf | as long as mentor and org and student are all cool with it, it's not going to break any Google rules. |
| 20:43.55 | nickbarnesccf | right? |
| 20:45.23 | dberkholz | nickbarnesccf: yep. mentors don't need to be committers, and the org has total discretion over projects |
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| 20:45.34 | nickbarnesccf | that's great. |
| 20:45.38 | nickbarnesccf | thanks. |
| 20:46.28 | nickbarnesccf | CCF is that sort of org, or aspires to b: lots of small projects which all share a goal, and might or might not have any actual code in common. |
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| 20:50.17 | dberkholz | nickbarnesccf: in gsoc terms, that's called an umbrella org |
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| 21:07.57 | random_ | hi anyone |
| 21:08.09 | socketguru | hey |
| 21:08.39 | random_ | hey i am new here. can you help me with it |
| 21:09.00 | socketguru | sure. ask |
| 21:09.51 | random_ | is there any way to find out people interested in a particular gsoc . for ex. i want to apply for OpenCv foundation project. |
| 21:09.54 | CrawfordComeaux | are there stats on age/size of mentor organizations? |
| 21:09.59 | random_ | how can i find them. |
| 21:10.29 | random_ | is this message available to everyone on this channel ?? |
| 21:10.45 | random_ | hmm i know the name of the mentor - its gary richard |
| 21:11.09 | socketguru | random_ : you can join channel for that specific project/org |
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| 21:12.01 | random_ | kk i should search on their site for their particular channel. nice meeting you. thanks :) |
| 21:12.28 | dhaun | random_: Gary's email address is even listed on OpenCV's ideas page |
| 21:12.50 | dhaun | ah no - wrong Gary :P |
| 21:13.05 | random_ | yaa i sent him a mail yesterday but i have not received any reply till now. hahaha no probs |
| 21:13.36 | random_ | ??? |
| 21:13.36 | random_ | is it ok to send mails to the project mentors directly |
| 21:13.59 | drt24 | yes unless they have specified otherwise |
| 21:14.05 | dhaun | depends on who the org handles it - since they list email addresses, I guess it's okay for them |
| 21:14.08 | Ophiuchi | random: of course, but please keep in mind that mentors may have a job and limited free time |
| 21:14.11 | dhaun | s/who/how/ |
| 21:14.26 | gevaerts | That depends on the organisation. If email addresses of mentors are the only contact information on the ideas page, I'd expect it is |
| 21:14.57 | drt24 | random_: It took me two days to get back to one of the students who contacted me due to impending deadlines. |
| 21:16.07 | random_ | yes okk sir, i have no plans to spam their mailboxes. i was just doubtful if they will reply or not. |
| 21:16.44 | random_ | i should wait for 2-3 days more before trying to reach them again :) |
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| 21:22.02 | drt24 | :-) |
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| 21:44.22 | cbh2000 | Hello, again! Would somebody tell me what is the minimum amount of time per week required to participate in the GSoC, please? |
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| 21:44.47 | cbh2000 | I seem to remeber 36 hours, but cannot find where I read that... |
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| 21:44.57 | topfs2 | cbh2000, when I was in it last year I spent 40h/w more or less |
| 21:45.11 | kcbanner | That seems high |
| 21:45.20 | cbh2000 | Would you say your project was easy, medium, or difficult? |
| 21:45.21 | topfs2 | kcbanner, liked my project :) |
| 21:45.38 | kcbanner | nice |
| 21:45.40 | topfs2 | cbh2000, it was rather hard, but I loved it which is why I spent lots of time with it |
| 21:45.44 | Ophiuchi | cbh2000: consider it a full-time job. |
| 21:46.14 | topfs2 | I would not recommend doing other work at the same time, especially not computer work |
| 21:46.28 | cbh2000 | What exactly could be defined as a "full time job," anyway? |
| 21:46.32 | KaunMoth | you're being paid a full summer job wage, thus you should commit to it as such |
| 21:46.38 | sumanah | cbh2000: in the US, 40 hours per week |
| 21:46.50 | cbh2000 | Ok. |
| 21:46.50 | topfs2 | I've read about some people which have done part time as a lumberjack during gsoc and saw gsoc as a way to unwind, and I bet it works for some |
| 21:47.03 | topfs2 | *or lumberjack as unwind |
| 21:47.21 | sumanah | topfs2: citation needed :) |
| 21:47.22 | KaunMoth | it all depends on on the org you're working for and any other job you might have I guess |
| 21:47.44 | topfs2 | sumanah, haha |
| 21:47.51 | topfs2 | It was on the gsoc ml IIRC |
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| 21:55.33 | cbh2000 | Oops, lost connection there... |
| 21:56.36 | cbh2000 | Did anybody respond to me after I said, "I have a full time job that leaves me 30-53 hours a week to play with" |
| 21:56.46 | cbh2000 | ? |
| 21:56.56 | |Kev| | I don't know, but you don't want to do GSoC with a full time job. |
| 21:57.05 | gevaerts | cbh2000: you vanished before that line got through |
| 21:57.10 | |Kev| | Or, you might want to, but it's a bad idea. |
| 21:57.45 | cbh2000 | kev: I know this sounds like a dumb question, but why? |
| 21:58.11 | dberkholz | basically because nobody will believe you unless you can prove you've already held 2 full-time jobs simultaneously |
| 21:58.21 | dberkholz | and done a great job at both |
| 21:58.29 | cbh2000 | Oh. Good point... |
| 21:58.55 | cbh2000 | So, I suppose it stands at this: quit my job or work less. |
| 21:59.08 | cbh2000 | Thanks for your input! |
| 21:59.26 | sumanah | "Inventory your time. Figure out how many hours per week are already spoken for outside of your GSoC commitment, including time spent volunteering for other projects and activities, and counting credit-hours of University instruction. GSoC should be treated as a full-time job. If you have more than a few hours a week of extra commitments, you probably should skip GSoC; it is unlikely that you will be successful." |
| 21:59.30 | sumanah | http://www.booki.cc/gsocstudentguide/_v/1.0/writing-a-proposal/ |
| 22:00.00 | cbh2000 | Thanks for that link! |
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| 22:01.44 | sumanah | welcome! |
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| 22:03.15 | cbh2000 | You see, my problem is that I feel that I have enough free time, (I figure 30-52 hours a week), but mainly during the weekend... |
| 22:03.30 | cbh2000 | Thanks for your input, I will talk with my boss! |
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| 22:08.08 | X-tonic | how much hours per week is good for GSOC? |
| 22:08.24 | mmadia | That depends on the organization, X-tonic. |
| 22:08.32 | |Kev| | You should allow at least 40 hours/week. |
| 22:08.39 | kblin | but it's supposed to be a full-time job |
| 22:08.46 | mmadia | Haiku, for instance is expecting students to treat it as a full-time work. |
| 22:09.04 | |Kev| | mmadia: Everybody expects it to be treated like a full-time job. It's in the FAQ even. |
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| 22:09.52 | mmadia | yes, but X-tonic has been expressing interest in Haiku for GSoC in #haiku :) |
| 22:10.18 | |Kev| | Noted :) |
| 22:10.36 | X-tonic | mmadia: yes, I am indeed interested :-) |
| 22:11.31 | dyjakan | more important is probably get the job done in good-manner |
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| 22:12.23 | |Kev| | dyjakan: There's a different between hours worked, and hours allowed. |
| 22:12.53 | |Kev| | All students should allow a full time's job worth of hours for the project. |
| 22:13.11 | Ophiuchi | in some sense gsoc is more like contract work (you get paid for results) than employment (sitting off your time doing nothing if there's nothing to be done still gets you paid) |
| 22:13.13 | |Kev| | If they end up working less than this, but still meeting all their goals, all power to them. |
| 22:13.35 | |Kev| | What they should not do is go into the project planning to work less than this. |
| 22:14.07 | dyjakan | I fully agree with you |Kev| ;) |
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| 22:14.33 | kotomart | Hi) Is having my own project required? |
| 22:14.52 | gevaerts | I'd say if you propose a project that you can do with only need 20 hours per week, and you carefully avoid mentioning this during the selection process, you're being dishonest |
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| 22:15.04 | Ophiuchi | kotomart: to work as a student? yes. |
| 22:15.50 | kotomart | Ophiuchi: thanks |
| 22:16.26 | mmadia | 'own project' as in working alone (and not in a group), but it is possible for a mentoring organization to have (2) students working independently on the same project/idea/goal. |
| 22:16.51 | Ophiuchi | gevaerts: with the difficulty in planning programming time even seasoned professionals have, if your project is not entirely trivial planning for something that you expect to be able to do in half the time and plan for "and if there's time left" tasks otherwise is sane, not dishonest |
| 22:17.28 | gevaerts | Ophiuchi: sorry, I forgot to add "And you also sneakily avoid to add any 'and if there's time left' bits" :) |
| 22:18.21 | |Kev| | Ophiuchi: "If there's time left" Is part of the project. |
| 22:19.00 | Ophiuchi | gevaerts: the good students make their own additions, whether the project had them at the start or not. Getting documentation out of anyone is quite a different problem ;-P |
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| 22:19.29 | |Kev| | Students should only be working less than fulltimeish if they're going to meet *all* of their goals - and if they're meeting them and doing much less than full time work, you need to consider the way you're setting projects. I don't think this is generally a problem, though. |
| 22:19.36 | schumaml | plan it like this: the first 90% and the last 10% of the project will take an equal amount of time to accomplish |
| 22:19.48 | gevaerts | Ophiuchi: I'm not talking about the case where everyone (mentors *and* student) overestimated the task |
| 22:19.54 | |Kev| | schumaml: If you're going to use Pareto's rule, it's 80:20 :) |
| 22:19.58 | kotomart | mmadia: Oh, I'm interested in case of mentoring organisation. If I got one, will they talk to me at first about "what better to do", or I have to come up with my own idea at first? |
| 22:20.09 | gevaerts | I'm talking about students who deliberately plan on doing 20 hours per week |
| 22:20.41 | Ophiuchi | kotomart: the organisations have idea lists. You get to pick one (unless you have better ideas) |
| 22:21.15 | kotomart | Ophiuchi: thanks, that was helpful |
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| 22:22.30 | Ophiuchi | gevaerts: Planning to slack is unwise, and may get one not paid :) |
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| 22:23.31 | Ophiuchi | gevaerts: on the other hand, an org has to size projects for a more or less 'normal' student, and if a really good one comes along they may just breeze through and look for additional things to do. |
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| 22:23.51 | gevaerts | Ophiuchi: yes, but then they should *say* that |
| 22:24.00 | |Kev| | Ophiuchi: If a really good student comes along, the org should tailor the project to them. |
| 22:24.35 | Ophiuchi | gevaerts, Kev: neither the org nor the student may know beforehand that the student is going to turn out that well. |
| 22:24.58 | Ophiuchi | (lack of self confidence is not all that rare) |
| 22:24.59 | gevaerts | Ophiuchi: in that case I see no problem |
| 22:25.01 | |Kev| | No, but there are signs. |
| 22:25.15 | |Kev| | If it happens out of the blue, that's just one of those things. |
| 22:25.20 | gevaerts | Again, I was talking about *deliberately* overestimating a task |
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| 22:25.47 | |Kev| | The orgs should *try* and assess the students and tailor tasks for them. They may not always get it right. The problem is when a student is trying to *plan* to not do much work. |
| 22:25.53 | Ophiuchi | besides, the really good students tend to work their tush off anyway, just because they hit onto something they really like. :) |
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| 22:26.16 | byran | Ok, so I've talked it over with my boss and he says that me taking the weekend off is fine. SWEET!! So, I've heard 40 hours/week is recommended? |
| 22:26.31 | byran | Oops. Sorry for interrupting... |
| 22:27.05 | |Kev| | byran: Treating it as a full time job is recommended. So 40 hours a week with no other major commitments. (e.g. saying "Well, I have 80 waking hours a week, so I can do two 40 hour jobs is not sensible) |
| 22:27.26 | byran | Ok. Should I negotiate more time off? |
| 22:27.53 | |Kev| | If you already have a full time job, it is sensible to not try to do GSoC. |
| 22:28.19 | cbh2000 | Yes. But neither am I. :) |
| 22:28.48 | |Kev| | A couple of days a week on another job you'll *probably* be able to manage - although you'll be working more than the average person. |
| 22:29.16 | cbh2000 | So, do you suppose it is even worth applying with 40 hours a week? |
| 22:29.28 | |Kev| | You're (probably) learning a number of new things during GSoC, as well as doing challenging work. You need to be fresh for this. |
| 22:29.42 | |Kev| | 40 hours a week for GSoC is fine - the problem is what else you have on outside those hours. |
| 22:29.53 | |Kev| | 40 hours a week assuming you're spending the usual amount of time resting is fine. |
| 22:30.08 | |Kev| | 40 hours a week if you spend another 40 doing something else challenging is going to be pushing yourself very hard. |
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| 22:30.14 | bobbens | it's more simple than that imho, if you have to ask these things, you shouldn't apply unless you quit the job |
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| 22:30.29 | cbh2000 | Of course, I am going to anyway... |
| 22:30.32 | |Kev| | (And I would strongly recommend against it. The FAQ says GSoC should be your main focus for the summer) |
| 22:31.11 | bobbens | doing otherwise is "cheating" both the org you're applying to and the goal of gsoc |
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| 22:32.03 | redheadphones | the 40 hours that is constantly stressed starts on may 23, according to the timeline, correct? i realize there will be prior work as well, but i'd imagine the bonding period isn't as intensive. |
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| 22:32.25 | bobbens | meh, it depends on the project |
| 22:32.28 | |Kev| | redheadphones: Correct. |
| 22:32.33 | bobbens | if you do a good job, don't do two things at once |
| 22:32.41 | bobbens | and behave, you don't have to worry about this stuff |
| 22:32.53 | |Kev| | Your community bonding period is time to bond and prepare, it is less intense than the coding period. |
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| 22:33.46 | gevaerts | Oh, there's of course the fact that most organisations are willing to compromise on the full time job thing if the problem is non-matching university schedules |
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| 22:34.14 | |Kev| | gevaerts: Compromise by stretching coding into the bonding period though, usually. |
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| 22:34.20 | bobbens | well yeah, I've done gsoc 3 years in a row with 1 month overlap with final exams |
| 22:34.25 | bobbens | but it basically meant doing more later |
| 22:35.16 | gevaerts | |Kev|: yes, I wasn't really clear enough there |
| 22:35.18 | redheadphones | gevaerts, that's my issue, seeing that finals for me are june 6 to june 10 |
| 22:35.37 | bobbens | 4 days only? :) |
| 22:35.47 | bobbens | redheadphones: just mention it ahead of time |
| 22:35.52 | bobbens | and say you'll make up for it |
| 22:35.55 | gevaerts | Well, there's some studying involved as well presumably |
| 22:35.55 | bobbens | worked for me (tm) |
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| 22:36.04 | redheadphones | of course, after finals i'm all theirs |
| 22:36.08 | bobbens | well I generally worked during bonding time, and after |
| 22:36.12 | bobbens | and gave myself a while for the exams |
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| 22:36.27 | byran_ | Sorry. My internet connection is flakey. |
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| 22:36.58 | redheadphones | i'm also planning a week vacation in late july, but i'll have internet access and plan to work some of each day. |
| 22:37.01 | gevaerts | redheadphones: that shoudln't be a problem. Try to do a bit more than usual during the bonding period, and catch up after your finals. Make sure to mention this in your application |
| 22:37.18 | redheadphones | i'll mention as much as i can in the apps |
| 22:37.27 | gevaerts | Yes, that's the best thing to do |
| 22:37.54 | gevaerts | Suddenly disappearing for a vacation that turns out to have been planned months in advance is a nasty surprise for the organisation |
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| 22:38.12 | gevaerts | Taking a vacation that you told the organisation would be there is not |
| 22:38.14 | redheadphones | it's nasty in any work |
| 22:38.52 | redheadphones | i'm going to get a few apps out this weekend, is there a proper place to include that sort of information? maybe separate from the proposals? |
| 22:39.11 | bobbens | do a timeline in your proposal |
| 22:39.28 | redheadphones | ah, makes sense |
| 22:40.12 | redheadphones | is looking forward to a fun spring/summer |
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| 22:40.44 | sunshi | :) |
| 22:41.59 | redheadphones | i should probably get used to utc time as well |
| 22:42.10 | gevaerts | Especially 19:00 UTC :) |
| 22:43.00 | redheadphones | looking at the timeline, i see what you mean |
| 22:44.43 | redheadphones | well that's easy enough, deadlines are mostly noon for me |
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| 22:45.57 | redheadphones | does socinfo do karma (++)? |
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| 23:03.56 | mjohnst | does anybody know if the student can work at the offices or is it only from home? |
| 23:04.09 | amstan | mjohnst: what offices? |
| 23:04.22 | mjohnst | of the organizations (assuming they have one) |
| 23:04.30 | amstan | mjohnst: they probably don't |
| 23:04.35 | amstan | they're not really companies |
| 23:04.52 | amstan | and even if they are(in case of mozilla), you work from home |
| 23:04.59 | mjohnst | ok |
| 23:05.21 | thiago_home | ask the organisation. If they have an office and they allow you to work from it, you probably can work there. |
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| 23:05.49 | mjohnst | i would love to meet my mentor face to face if possible |
| 23:05.53 | thiago_home | very few have offices. Of those that do, very few have space for more people. |
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| 23:06.01 | thiago_home | who said that your mentor is in that office? :-) |
| 23:06.06 | mjohnst | true |
| 23:06.47 | thiago_home | for example, the KDE e.V. has an office in Berlin. It's small, the only people there are the administrative and the intern. No mentors work there. |
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| 23:08.13 | Michitux | mjohnst: you can still meet your mentor face to face. sometimes there are hackfests and if you are living near your mentor there is probably no problem with meeting him... |
| 23:08.30 | mjohnst | cool |
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| 23:09.13 | Michitux | but I don't think that the condition "living near the mentor" is fulfilled in a lot of cases |
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| 23:10.01 | mjohnst | yeah. I live just south of palo alto, so I was hoping that a lot of the organizations would have some base in the area |
| 23:11.03 | thiago_home | there are probably user and developer groups |
| 23:11.30 | thiago_home | if you want to meet your mentor, you'll probably have to travel |
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| 23:12.02 | mjohnst | is contact with the mentor usually done via VOIP or video conferencing? or IRC |
| 23:12.08 | mjohnst | or just email |
| 23:12.57 | thiago_home | I preferred email and IRC when I was a mentor |
| 23:13.20 | thiago_home | VoIP isn't very good when trying to talk technical terms to a non-native speaker |
| 23:14.11 | thiago_home | sometimes, writing is better |
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| 23:22.51 | lgadmin | Our project has had a presumed student approach us who is a plagiarist (therefore a scammer as far as I am concerned) based on his correspondence with us. What is the right way to alert other projects or GSoC about this? |
| 23:23.36 | carols | lgadmin: if you're on the mentors list you're welcome to email them to let them know. if your org is new and you're not on the list yet email me directly and I'll forward it along |
| 23:23.56 | schumaml | lgadmin: out of curiosity, did you confront the student with your findings? |
| 23:24.16 | lgadmin | No, I have not confronted the student about it. |
| 23:24.50 | lgadmin | It goes beyond plagiarism. |
| 23:25.22 | lgadmin | - not meaning to get too indignant about it. |
| 23:25.45 | lgadmin | You know, Google works two ways. :-) |
| 23:26.30 | lgadmin | Carols, indeed, we are new. I will email you. Thank you. |
| 23:26.38 | schumaml | you realize that other orgs won't necessarily take your word for it, right? i.e. there should be some prrof... |
| 23:26.46 | carols | lgadmin: you're welcome |
| 23:26.49 | schumaml | *proof |
| 23:26.59 | lgadmin | Easy. |
| 23:29.54 | brlcad | lgadmin: keep in mind that some younger students (unfortunately) may not even be aware that plagiarism is unacceptable |
| 23:30.12 | brlcad | some cultures and environments may even encourage it (by playing a blind eye to it) |
| 23:30.15 | scorche|sh | different cultures have different interpretations |
| 23:30.41 | lgadmin | It is not just the plagiarism it is the faking of expertise. |
| 23:30.49 | brlcad | don't know the circumstance of your situation, but something that is obviously immoral and perhaps even offensive to you might be completely normal to them |
| 23:30.55 | scorche|sh | it certainly is best to inform the student about your view on it, what he is doing, and what he should resist doing and then seeing what - ah...more than just a big ego? ;) |
| 23:31.40 | lgadmin | I am concerned that with behavior like this I will just be educating a scammer how to be more subtle and get further along. |
| 23:31.44 | lgadmin | Seriously. |
| 23:32.06 | brlcad | my roommate in college was a habitual liar, outright mean from my view but it was culturally acceptable for him from his upbringing as a means to get ahead |
| 23:33.28 | schumaml | we've been at "cultural acceptable" before |
| 23:33.44 | brlcad | I'm not sure I see how NOT talking to him and expressing your concern could be bad, especially if you tell him you've informed other orgs -- that's punitive in itself |
| 23:33.46 | PlainFlavored | This is a really broad question, but what qualifies one to be accepted as a student? Is it based on knowledge/merit, or experience, or both? |
| 23:33.55 | schumaml | "why is the deadline fixed? a deadline means that one week afterwards is still ok in my culture!!!" |
| 23:34.13 | brlcad | PlainFlavored: it completely depends on the org accepting you |
| 23:34.21 | brlcad | to most it's both I think |
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| 23:35.24 | PlainFlavored | excellent, thank you |
| 23:37.15 | brlcad | schumaml: to play the devil's advocate, in the case of the deadline -- the schedule is defined (with a number!) regardless of how they interpret deadline, but there is no statement that I can find regarding moral behavior and plagiarism (at least in the faq) |
| 23:38.03 | scorche|sh | brlcad: well, it does say somewhere that the student should do their own work |
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| 23:38.17 | scorche|sh | somewhere around a FAQ about can 2 students do the project |
| 23:39.38 | schumaml | brlcad: whic cultures allow lies and plagiarism in educational contexts? |
| 23:39.49 | lgadmin | carols, it is late for me. I will email you tomorrow. Thanks again. |
| 23:39.50 | brlcad | 1.7 in the Student Participant Agreement mentions plagiarism with respect to Google -- there's no requirement of behavior with respect to the orgs ;) |
| 23:40.00 | brlcad | scorche|sh: copy and pasting is hard work! :) |
| 23:40.15 | carols | lgadmin: yw |
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