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| 01:57.11 | Dongxu | test |
| 01:57.37 | dfighter | it works! |
| 01:57.38 | thunder_island | it works |
| 01:57.41 | thunder_island | haha |
| 01:57.47 | dfighter | *high five* |
| 01:57.53 | Dongxu | :) |
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| 02:22.25 | pastorn | !next |
| 02:22.25 | gsocbot | pastorn: "next" is April 22nd: 19:00 UTC - End of reviews, deduplication meeting on IRC |
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| 02:22.45 | pastorn | awesome... another week on nails |
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| 05:08.31 | paulproteus | Hello GSoC folks! If you're looking for something to do in about 8 hours from now, the Vidalia folks (open source Tor GUI) are running a "Learn how to compile Vidalia" tutorial on IRC: https://blog.torproject.org/blog/vidalia-get-involved |
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| 05:08.54 | paulproteus | If you know people who want to learn more about open source, I would really appreciate it if you'd send them the link. |
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| 05:42.23 | _sagi | hi |
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| 06:16.10 | l0xw3r | hi, Can I know the last day to decide on withdrawing a submitted proposal? Is it 22nd or 25th April? |
| 06:16.35 | ajedwards | speak to your organisation, pulling out at last minute could mean that someone else does not get a chance at all |
| 06:16.48 | ajedwards | if you pull out very late then the slot probably wont get filled |
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| 06:19.01 | l0xw3r | ajedwards: OK. So, what's the last minute? Is it on 22nd or 25th? |
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| 06:19.41 | ajedwards | the last second realistically was 2 days ago before people were assigned slots by org, 22nd and you'll be pissing people off |
| 06:21.03 | ajedwards | if you're going to hit withdraw because you don't want it, then do so now.. there are thousands of people who are already going to be disappointed - no need for you to chance causing one more :) |
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| 06:21.57 | l0xw3r | I understand that. :) I'm asking since I don't want to lose an opportunity of another student. I'm in the middle of two choices. |
| 06:23.05 | ajedwards | toss a coin, if you pull out on the 21st then someone might get your place, if you pull out on the 22nd - the chances are the place will be wasted, if you pull out on the 25th then you'll almost definitely have wasted that slot |
| 06:23.23 | ajedwards | speak to your organisation - that way if you're even in consideration they will be able to make a decision |
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| 06:24.51 | _sagi | Hi |
| 06:25.23 | _sagi | Who are the person in authority to decide acceptance/rejection of proposal ? |
| 06:25.41 | _sagi | Are they mentors ? |
| 06:25.53 | l0xw3r | ajedwards: ok. thanks for the information :) |
| 06:25.53 | valorie | the mentors in your project, and the admins |
| 06:26.12 | _sagi | if it is approved by the mentors, then ? |
| 06:26.27 | dfighter | _sagi Google assigns the number of students that can be accepted |
| 06:26.31 | _sagi | still admin have the authority to dissmiss it..is that so ? |
| 06:26.32 | valorie | the admins are the ones who have to administer the number of slots |
| 06:26.36 | dfighter | then your org decides who they fill in to those slots |
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| 06:27.42 | _sagi | dfighter, are you saying admin will decide how many students can they have for that organisation. |
| 06:27.45 | l0xw3r | _sagi: do know that all the mentors vote on your proposal. not just your assigned mentor if you have any. |
| 06:27.52 | dfighter | yes _sagi |
| 06:28.03 | _sagi | l0xw3r, yes. |
| 06:28.25 | greeniekin | all mentors? damn i've only been bribing one :P |
| 06:28.35 | _sagi | l0xw3r, But the students cant see the rating. |
| 06:28.40 | |Kev| | _sagi: No. |
| 06:28.50 | |Kev| | _sagi: Google decide how many slots each org gets. |
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| 06:29.00 | |Kev| | _sagi: The org admins then decide how to use those slots. |
| 06:29.11 | Ophiuchi | sagi: Google says "how many" the org decides "who", the admin(s) of the org put the "who" in |
| 06:29.16 | l0xw3r | _sagi: of course they can't. And I've got to know that mentors can comment _privately_ on your proposal as well. |
| 06:29.26 | |Kev| | _sagi: Usually the org admins do this by having all the mentors vote in some way, and picking the top ones. |
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| 06:31.15 | kai | morning folks |
| 06:31.17 | _sagi | Incase for gnome type organisation , where multiple orgasnisations apply under it... will the gnome org decides whose project should get selected. |
| 06:31.53 | valorie | the mentors and admins work that stuff out |
| 06:32.12 | Ophiuchi | dfighter: btw, picking up a question of yours from the day before yesterday: how long would you listen to people in some place joking about how all <people like you> being stupid and useless and a waste of time until you'd decide that you waste your time (and theirs) being there? |
| 06:33.09 | Ophiuchi | sagi: I suspect that every org does this differently, because the scales differ a lot. An org with 10 proposals has quite a different problem than one with 250 |
| 06:33.31 | _sagi | Ophiuchi, ok |
| 06:33.59 | dfighter | Ophiuchi if it's clearly just joking I wouldn't care |
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| 06:34.29 | Ophiuchi | dfighter: even if teh comment to the jokes is "that's so true"? |
| 06:34.43 | dfighter | not in that case |
| 06:34.49 | dfighter | that would tell me that it's not just a joke |
| 06:36.39 | dfighter | Ophiuchi for example in one of the projects I am involved with it's pretty common to joke about african americans |
| 06:36.42 | dfighter | as being slaves |
| 06:36.43 | dfighter | etc |
| 06:36.54 | dfighter | and one of the contributors is actually an african american |
| 06:37.04 | dfighter | and probably he lols the hardest about those |
| 06:37.05 | _sagi | Ophiuchi, what I am saying is, there a number of projects under gnome and gnome has already assigned mentors for that. Now like we have submitted the proposal to any particular org that was under Gnome and mentor(that was prev assigned) was impressed by it.Is there still a chance that project would not be selected(keeping in mind that project was mentioned in Gnome project ideas page) ? |
| 06:37.13 | dfighter | until an extent ofc |
| 06:38.02 | Ophiuchi | sagi: I'm neither a Gnome mentor nor a Gnome admin, how should I know? ask on the Gnome channel :) |
| 06:38.17 | _sagi | hm. |
| 06:38.24 | |Kev| | _sagi: Yes, every application has a chance not to be accepted. |
| 06:38.43 | |Kev| | _sagi: Orgs almost always have fewer slots to use than students they'd like to use them on. |
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| 06:43.19 | l0xw3r | _sagi: generally the assigned mentor will play a influential part to get your proposal accepted. But you never know how the other mentors will see your proposal, and the importance of the idea. |
| 06:43.47 | _sagi | |Kev|, l0xw3r ok :) |
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| 07:39.04 | vegard | followed by the POUND key! |
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| 07:48.19 | Uli- | when i filter on a column and edit a custom field I need to refresh the page in order to be able to edit another row's custom field. is this known? |
| 07:49.24 | Uli- | clicking a different row first doesn't help either. |
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| 07:52.19 | Uli- | also, when i enter a value in a custom field and reorder by the custom field column, changes are lost. pressing enter to end editing or even explicitly clicking save doesn't work either. only after a page refresh the value seems to be there. |
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| 07:55.22 | sonney2k | SRabbelier, regarding your last email: would you then not better enforce this in the interface (I made the same mistake - so I guess it is not obvious!) |
| 07:55.42 | sonney2k | email to the mailinglist that is |
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| 08:00.14 | SRabbelier | sonney2k: enforce what? sorry? |
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| 08:00.41 | sonney2k | SRabbelier, that not more students are accepted than there are slot |
| 08:00.42 | sonney2k | s |
| 08:00.54 | SRabbelier | sonney2k: we will |
| 08:00.58 | SRabbelier | sonney2k: with red colors and whatnot |
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| 08:01.29 | sonney2k | SRabbelier, use the <blink> tag ;-) |
| 08:01.39 | sonney2k | thanks |
| 08:01.50 | SRabbelier | sonney2k: <marquee> too |
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| 08:02.12 | SRabbelier | I will use all three! |
| 08:02.13 | sonney2k | heh |
| 08:02.17 | SRabbelier | <bold><marquee><blink> |
| 08:02.43 | SRabbelier | oh and <h1> too |
| 08:02.51 | sonney2k | just accepts all candidates and anticipates the show |
| 08:03.19 | Uli- | which would make <bold> redundant, wouldn't it? |
| 08:05.45 | greeniekin | not meant to use bold anymore :P |
| 08:06.37 | beng-nl | lo |
| 08:07.09 | greeniekin | lo? |
| 08:07.37 | kai | the opposite of hi |
| 08:07.45 | greeniekin | oooo |
| 08:07.53 | kai | at least in electronics ;) |
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| 08:08.10 | greeniekin | still doesn't make sense though |
| 08:08.33 | kai | it's usually short for "hello" in IRC ;) |
| 08:09.30 | greeniekin | really? thats weird |
| 08:09.58 | kai | it sounds like a mumbled hello |
| 08:10.09 | greeniekin | hi is an actuall word. same number of chars and the keys are about same to type |
| 08:13.25 | kai | I can type lo with one press, though |
| 08:14.21 | valorie | it's also the punning: hi, lo |
| 08:14.33 | valorie | irc is all about the punning |
| 08:14.55 | kai | valorie: wait, you mean the rest of life isn't? |
| 08:14.59 | DavidJonesCCF | greenikin: do you think saying "lo" creates a elitist atmosphere? |
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| 08:16.07 | greeniekin | no. just seems strange that someone cam up with that as an alternative |
| 08:16.15 | greeniekin | *came |
| 08:16.47 | DavidJonesCCF | in british english it wouldn't be unusual to say "'llo", as a contraction of "hello". |
| 08:17.08 | kai | greeniekin: I think the hi, lo thing is a big part of it |
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| 08:17.34 | valorie | lol |
| 08:17.54 | DavidJonesCCF | kai: and that never occurred to me. Though of course i am familiar with all of your internet traditions. |
| 08:18.51 | kai | I guess it's fine as long as you don't mention the war ;) |
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| 08:19.15 | greeniekin | !next |
| 08:19.15 | gsocbot | greeniekin: "next" is April 22nd: 19:00 UTC - End of reviews, deduplication meeting on IRC |
| 08:20.48 | greeniekin | i can't wait that long |
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| 08:21.05 | kai | !patience | greeniekin |
| 08:21.05 | gsocbot | greeniekin: "patience" is Patience is very important in GSoC/GCI. Relax and go code something useful. |
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| 08:21.40 | greeniekin | i was expecting patience is a virtue |
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| 08:25.23 | valorie | greeniekin: go look for junior jobs or the equiv in your project bugs DB |
| 08:25.33 | valorie | that will make you points, and get you sharp |
| 08:25.50 | |Kev| | And is good practice completely independent of GSoC anyway. |
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| 08:26.26 | valorie | indeed |
| 08:27.23 | ThFabba | "Junior jobs". I like that term. We should use it *g* |
| 08:27.30 | greeniekin | valorie, I know. Ii all ready do that. Here the pet project im working on. http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/623/taskicons.png |
| 08:28.12 | greeniekin | a clone of explorer.exe including uxtheme support |
| 08:28.12 | valorie | nice |
| 08:28.48 | greeniekin | not as exciting as writing plug and play support or something though lol |
| 08:29.35 | kai | you could write a directplay implementation for Wine if you're bored |
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| 08:30.01 | greeniekin | kai, thats a gsoc project isn't it? |
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| 08:30.52 | kai | I've done a lot of protocol analysis on that, and MS reseased some docs on it a while ago |
| 08:30.59 | kai | I don't hope so |
| 08:31.55 | kai | not anymore |
| 08:32.00 | greeniekin | i actually did put in an application for wine aswell as reactos |
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| 08:34.25 | kai | ah, I'm not involved with Wine's GSoC this year |
| 08:34.54 | greeniekin | o ok |
| 08:36.44 | kai | the first time since 2005, but there's only so many things you can do at a time |
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| 09:03.53 | svaksha | <3 icons used by hedgewars and jitsi projects |
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| 09:19.07 | Uli- | !timeline |
| 09:19.07 | gsocbot | Uli-: "timeline" is http://goo.gl/PFsjs |
| 09:19.11 | Uli- | !next |
| 09:19.11 | gsocbot | Uli-: "next" is April 22nd: 19:00 UTC - End of reviews, deduplication meeting on IRC |
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| 11:14.51 | houbsi | is their any possibilty to do some changes to the proposal? |
| 11:15.12 | Myth17 | houbsi, you can always comment :) |
| 11:15.20 | Ivanovic | houbsi: leave comments! |
| 11:15.21 | Nightrose | houbsi: your org can allow you to make edits |
| 11:15.23 | Ivanovic | this is always possible |
| 11:16.04 | houbsi | thanks :) |
| 11:16.30 | stefanct | houbsi: edit button on the top? |
| 11:16.56 | houbsi | stefanct: since when you wheren't on your proposal? |
| 11:16.58 | stefanct | but maybe my org allowed that by default, dunno |
| 11:17.07 | stefanct | checked 10 secs ago |
| 11:17.20 | kai | stefanct: is the edit button orange? |
| 11:17.21 | houbsi | mhh think your org is very nice :D |
| 11:17.37 | stefanct | kai: no, just a normal link below the headline |
| 11:17.50 | stefanct | below my name below the headline actually |
| 11:18.01 | Myth17 | can see only withdrawl and make public button |
| 11:18.02 | kai | aha |
| 11:18.16 | kai | possibly your org allowed you to change it then |
| 11:18.36 | kai | though usually I'd expect an orange button |
| 11:18.38 | kai | !orange |
| 11:18.38 | gsocbot | kai: "orange" is the color used to mark an active button in melange. Clicking an orange button performs the action written on the button. |
| 11:18.51 | DarthGandalf | !blue |
| 11:18.51 | gsocbot | DarthGandalf: "blue" is the color used to mark an inactive button in melange. No need to click it. Also see !orange |
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| 11:21.36 | stefanct | http://666kb.com/i/bsnsdi07uwsp32mfc.jpg |
| 11:22.39 | kai | interesting |
| 11:23.01 | kai | though I have no idea how it's supposed to look like |
| 11:23.39 | DarthGandalf | Just without the edit link... |
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| 12:25.44 | laserbled | !next |
| 12:25.44 | gsocbot | laserbled: "next" is April 22nd: 19:00 UTC - End of reviews, deduplication meeting on IRC |
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| 12:31.44 | nickbarnesccf | do many orgs interview students in this phase? |
| 12:32.24 | |Kev| | I doubt if that's measured. |
| 12:32.52 | |Kev| | And what counts as 'interview'ing probably varies greatly. |
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| 12:36.06 | dberkholz | i know some of them do live coding |
| 12:36.54 | dberkholz | we try to get a feel for the same thing by requiring them to interact with the community now, and asking for pointers to past code or requiring them to write a little bit now (but not live) |
| 12:39.05 | nickbarnesccf | we are planning to interview a few via IRC |
| 12:39.30 | ajedwards | i wonder if my org has done anything yet |
| 12:39.39 | ajedwards | they seem a bit of a closed book |
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| 12:40.41 | Uli- | we do interviews and they directly influence our scores. |
| 12:49.55 | |Kev| | We chat informally with students over IM. |
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| 12:50.41 | |Kev| | If students don't come to chat with us, we often don't push it and just let that influence their scores. |
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| 12:52.43 | nickbarnesccf | ok |
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| 12:57.09 | testsss | !next |
| 12:57.10 | gsocbot | testsss: "next" is April 22nd: 19:00 UTC - End of reviews, deduplication meeting on IRC |
| 12:57.49 | testsss | I have a question - When will we find out are we picked by the orgs? Is it 25th or 22th ? |
| 12:58.01 | nickbarnesccf | 25th. |
| 12:59.07 | nickbarnesccf | Orgs have all been specifically told by Google not to talk to students about acceptance and rejection before Google announce acceptances on 25th. |
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| 13:02.12 | nickbarnesccf | (so even though I know perfectly well that 13 of our students are not getting slots, I'm not telling them) |
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| 13:13.37 | ThomasWaldmann | nickbarnesccf: but you are sure you want to announce it on #gsoc? :) |
| 13:13.45 | Uli- | lol |
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| 13:15.51 | ThomasWaldmann | (ok, they will still do not know whether they are in those 13 or in the acceptable rest, but they maybe can think about probability, if they also know the total amount) |
| 13:15.59 | ThomasWaldmann | -do |
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| 13:16.33 | nickbarnesccf | I would be surprised if there are many orgs who are not in this situation. |
| 13:16.58 | nickbarnesccf | (the triage into good/OK/timewasting was done by Tuesday) |
| 13:17.05 | laserbled | just a though....would it be better to announce the slot before submitting proposals...so that the students will have some idea of their chances and not be dissapointed even after working well on their porposals ? |
| 13:17.21 | DavidJonesCCF | !blue |
| 13:17.21 | gsocbot | DavidJonesCCF: "blue" is the color used to mark an inactive button in melange. No need to click it. Also see !orange |
| 13:17.28 | DavidJonesCCF | !orange |
| 13:17.28 | gsocbot | DavidJonesCCF: "orange" is the color used to mark an active button in melange. Clicking an orange button performs the action written on the button. |
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| 13:18.45 | ThomasWaldmann | laserbled: i think the slot count should be BASED on the good/medium proposals you get |
| 13:19.09 | laserbled | not really.....even if you have 100 good proposals the slot count reamins same |
| 13:19.14 | ThomasWaldmann | it is somehow pointless if you give an org many slots, but they don't have enough good or medium proposals |
| 13:19.15 | laserbled | afaik |
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| 13:19.50 | laserbled | ofcourse its for google to decide... may be next year atleast |
| 13:19.53 | ThomasWaldmann | also, if an org has many good ones and they only get much fewer slots, it is also a bit disappointing |
| 13:20.26 | ThomasWaldmann | i guess this is the reason why they asked for those 2 slots count wishes this year |
| 13:22.10 | laserbled | I quite understand the new org - max 2 ..logic but announcing that before hand would help students :) |
| 13:22.51 | ThomasWaldmann | hmm, in that case maybe yes |
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| 13:23.02 | DavidJonesCCF | laserbled has a point though: slot counts could be based on your competent mentoring capacity. |
| 13:23.32 | dberkholz | it probably makes it easier for new orgs to do well in their first year, when they have a much larger ratio of students to slots |
| 13:23.40 | ThomasWaldmann | otoh, if you get lots of good application as a new org and you do the 2 you get really well, it is maybe a reason to give you more next time |
| 13:24.30 | dberkholz | you end up with only the very best students (at least in theory) |
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| 13:45.34 | BrettProfitt | top |
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| 13:45.41 | BrettProfitt | mt...:-X |
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| 13:47.28 | greggy1 | any idea how to resubmit a mentor request that was inadvertently withdrawn? It is unavailable to the admin to aproove, and if resummitted the message is "you've already submitted a mentor request" |
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| 13:49.03 | greggy1 | still sleeping out there in Google land I suspect |
| 13:49.10 | David_Honeynet | greggy1: if your org admin views invalid requests in the UI, they can re-issue it and you'll get anothe invite email |
| 13:49.21 | David_Honeynet | (default filter is only showing valid requests) |
| 13:49.47 | greggy1 | David_Honeynet: thx I'll give it a try |
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| 13:51.54 | David_Honeynet | greggy1: worked for me recently with a mentor having the same problem |
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| 14:09.51 | testsss | nickbarnesccf: Is there any place to see how many slots did Google assign to each org. The orgs trying to get as much interest from stutents as possible. Seems like if possible they would each spam like 50+ ideas. Even if they know they're not getting more then 20 slots |
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| 14:10.08 | testsss | That means many students can get dissapointed after hard work on the proposals |
| 14:10.21 | David_Honeynet | testsss: the results will be public on April 25th |
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| 14:11.26 | testsss | David_Honeynet: I know that. But by then all students would have spent their week(s) on preparing for proposals, submitting patches to get attention (some orgs require a patch to review a proposal) and etc.. |
| 14:11.27 | David_Honeynet | hopefully the orgs are sensible enough not to try and game the system (and it would be surprising if Google didn't pay attention to that too) |
| 14:11.30 | testsss | doesn't seme very fare |
| 14:11.42 | testsss | fair* |
| 14:11.47 | |Kev| | David_Honeynet: How would they try and game the system? |
| 14:11.51 | *** join/#gsoc laserbled (~laserbled@117.196.163.233) |
| 14:11.57 | David_Honeynet | testsss: if 5000+ students apply and there are only ~1000 student slots, there are always going to be students who will be disappointed |
| 14:12.12 | David_Honeynet | even if they all work hard on their application (much like real life!) |
| 14:12.13 | kai | testsss: how's that different from other things in life where you do a lot of hard work and don't get what you want? |
| 14:12.23 | testsss | right. I agree. but it's not about how many students apply |
| 14:12.35 | testsss | it's about how many ideas the orgs allow on their websites |
| 14:12.46 | testsss | they spam like 30-40 ideas and get proposals for each |
| 14:12.50 | kai | I don't get what you're about |
| 14:12.51 | testsss | but get 20 slots in the end |
| 14:13.07 | kai | it's impossible to know beforehand which project ideas will get you good proposals |
| 14:13.15 | testsss | true |
| 14:13.24 | |Kev| | testsss: The ideas are just ideas. There is no relationship between #ideas and #slots. |
| 14:13.27 | diablo | !numapps |
| 14:13.28 | gsocbot | diablo: "numapps" is 417 mentoring orgs applied and 175 were accepted this year; 5474 proposals were submitted by 3731 students. In 2010, 367 mentoring orgs applied and 151 were accepted; 5539 proposals were submitted by 3464 students, and 1026 were accepted. |
| 14:13.30 | testsss | right |
| 14:13.41 | testsss | but students work hard for those ideas |
| 14:13.44 | testsss | my point was |
| 14:13.54 | David_Honeynet | the number of slots an org receives is based on the number of highly rated student proposals they receive, their number of mentors available, their track record, etc - ideas are just ideas to get students started, it doesn't guarantee quality/quantity of applications |
| 14:13.56 | testsss | that orgs should try to keep ideas relevant to the number of slots |
| 14:13.56 | |Kev| | Yes, but it's irrelevant how many ideas there are. |
| 14:14.03 | |Kev| | Why? |
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| 14:14.13 | gevaerts | testsss: that's a very interesting point, but it's *wrong* :) |
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| 14:14.24 | testsss | why is that? |
| 14:14.24 | |Kev| | If 40 students apply for 20 ideas, and 20 get in, how is that any different from 40 students applying for 40 ideas, and 20 getting in? |
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| 14:14.29 | Genghiz9 | !numapps |
| 14:14.30 | gsocbot | Genghiz9: "numapps" is 417 mentoring orgs applied and 175 were accepted this year; 5474 proposals were submitted by 3731 students. In 2010, 367 mentoring orgs applied and 151 were accepted; 5539 proposals were submitted by 3464 students, and 1026 were accepted. |
| 14:14.35 | kai | testsss: if I offer less ideas and get the same number of applications, how's that going to be different? |
| 14:14.38 | testsss | Kev: it's much more fair |
| 14:14.48 | testsss | Kev: to give only 20 ideas and have students compete for them |
| 14:14.48 | |Kev| | testsss: It's not at all more fair. |
| 14:14.56 | |Kev| | Students are not competing for ideas. |
| 14:14.58 | kai | testsss: why? |
| 14:15.01 | gevaerts | If I as an org think I can get one slot (let's keep things simple!), and I publish one idea (which I think is what you mean), I have a high chance of getting no decent proposals at all |
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| 14:15.07 | kai | testsss: in both cases the best 20 get it |
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| 14:15.17 | testsss | Kev: giving 40 ideas you make people believe that those 40 things will turn into projects. and people think they only have to be good enough |
| 14:15.33 | gevaerts | testsss: then those believing people are wrong |
| 14:15.34 | testsss | yes but in one case you give wrong impression to people (and to more people) |
| 14:15.39 | gevaerts | No |
| 14:15.41 | |Kev| | testsss: Only if people are guessing how GSoC works, and not reading. |
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| 14:15.56 | testsss | Kev: well I try to read. Excuse me if I missed something |
| 14:15.58 | kai | testsss: I really don't understand your point |
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| 14:16.05 | testsss | kai: |
| 14:16.10 | testsss | let me try to explain it |
| 14:16.13 | testsss | with an example |
| 14:16.25 | testsss | I would be completely ok if I get beaten by other student for an idea |
| 14:16.31 | testsss | of he gives better proposal |
| 14:16.34 | testsss | if he's more devoted |
| 14:16.37 | testsss | and gets chosen |
| 14:16.43 | testsss | but I would be very dissapointed |
| 14:16.47 | testsss | if I make the best proposal |
| 14:16.54 | testsss | if I work 80 hours before we even start |
| 14:16.56 | mlankhorst | bah, cant wait till portal 2 comes out :( |
| 14:16.59 | gevaerts | points out that there's no reason whatsoever to start a new line every three words |
| 14:17.00 | testsss | to make the proposal good enoug |
| 14:17.08 | testsss | and find out Im kicked due to slots |
| 14:17.10 | testsss | that's different |
| 14:17.17 | kai | no |
| 14:17.31 | |Kev| | testsss: If you made the best application to an org, you're going to be accepted. |
| 14:17.40 | kai | what |Kev| said |
| 14:17.43 | testsss | Kev: best appliction for a given Idea |
| 14:17.49 | kai | no |
| 14:17.53 | testsss | but if the idea isn't a prioprity for the org |
| 14:17.55 | testsss | it doesn't matter |
| 14:17.57 | |Kev| | If enough people made better applications that the org runs out of slots, you won't. |
| 14:18.05 | David_Honeynet | testsss: the org will select the best student applications, period. you are assuming they chose the ideas first then the students within each idea |
| 14:18.19 | kai | testsss: this is assuming we sort proposals by some priority |
| 14:18.25 | testsss | it seems so |
| 14:18.34 | kai | testsss: which is plain wrong for most of the orgs I know |
| 14:18.36 | testsss | allow me to be wrong |
| 14:18.46 | gevaerts | allows testsss to be wrong |
| 14:18.51 | testsss | :D |
| 14:18.54 | David_Honeynet | ;-) |
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| 14:19.09 | testsss | seems like if you have 10 slots and 40 great ideas/proposals |
| 14:19.22 | testsss | you'll have to rate the ideas based on what will be more handy and benefisial |
| 14:19.28 | |Kev| | No. |
| 14:19.34 | testsss | you can't rate 40 proposals if they're all very good. |
| 14:19.38 | kai | testsss: look, the plain truth is this.. most likely mentoring a student will take the mentor more time than implementing the proposal herself |
| 14:19.38 | testsss | how are you going to compare |
| 14:19.49 | laserbled | the problem here is may be there is no alternative to the isssue you are suggesting about students getting dissapointed... |
| 14:19.56 | testsss | kai: I dissagree |
| 14:20.06 | testsss | completely dissagree about the last thing |
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| 14:20.13 | kai | testsss: how many students did you mentor so far? |
| 14:20.16 | |Kev| | testsss: You're assuming that getting code written is the point of GSoC for orgs, which it isn't. Students are much slower than mentors at writing code (almost always), and mentoring takes more time than writing the same code would (generally) |
| 14:20.17 | testsss | the whole point of all this competition |
| 14:20.19 | testsss | none |
| 14:20.24 | gevaerts | What competition? |
| 14:20.44 | kai | testsss: so how come you disagree with my experience that stems from actually mentoring students during summer of code? |
| 14:20.54 | testsss | X students are competing about Y slots to work on during summer |
| 14:21.03 | testsss | it's competetive you can read it in google's site :) |
| 14:21.15 | |Kev| | testsss: So that means the orgs are picking students based on other metrics than 'what code will they produce?'. |
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| 14:21.21 | testsss | kai: true, that experience can give you stronger point |
| 14:21.51 | testsss | but back to my example |
| 14:21.58 | testsss | if you have 40 great ideas and proposals |
| 14:22.02 | gevaerts | Also, don't assume that four good proposals for every slot is in any way typical |
| 14:22.04 | testsss | and you have to pick 10 |
| 14:22.15 | testsss | lets say |
| 14:22.16 | testsss | for each idea |
| 14:22.17 | gevaerts | Then you're *extremely* lucky |
| 14:22.22 | testsss | you've chosen the best proposal |
| 14:22.25 | testsss | so you have 40 ideas |
| 14:22.27 | |Kev| | testsss: Then you pick them based upon how much you want to work with those students, how well they interact with you, etc. (Or we do) |
| 14:22.29 | testsss | and 40 students picked |
| 14:22.32 | testsss | you have 10 slots |
| 14:22.37 | testsss | how do you compare them |
| 14:22.46 | testsss | when they're all filling for different ideas |
| 14:22.47 | kai | what |Kev| said |
| 14:22.57 | eoc | testsss: I could better follow you if you wrote about 1/4 the lines you do with the current content, thanks :-) |
| 14:23.01 | testsss | how do you compare Proposal for UI design with proposal for Kernel patch |
| 14:23.04 | kai | and please try to do at least one sentence per line |
| 14:23.04 | gevaerts | testsss: *please* try not to start so many new lines all the time... |
| 14:23.07 | David_Honeynet | testsss: set them coding tests, ask them to submit patches, interview them, look at the history, talk and get a feeling for their level of ability/enthusiasm, etc |
| 14:23.16 | kai | !newlines |
| 14:23.30 | testsss | I appologise, skype and other IMs have damaged my social skills I guess :) |
| 14:24.00 | kai | !learn newlines as not the right choice for punctuation. |
| 14:24.00 | gsocbot | kai: "newlines" is not the right choice for punctuation. |
| 14:24.17 | kai | testsss: I hate it when people do that on IMs as well |
| 14:24.19 | testsss | that's so 80's :P |
| 14:24.30 | testsss | I understand. will try to be more consistent |
| 14:24.41 | |Kev| | testsss: So in summary, GSoC is not about the code, it's about the students. |
| 14:25.15 | testsss | ok. so they'll pick the most devoted students regardless of the projects? |
| 14:25.18 | kai | also, I've never seen a summer where we got a proposal that was worthy of a slot for every project idea |
| 14:25.32 | testsss | the idea is to turn them into contributors? or to keep them busy during summer? |
| 14:25.48 | DarthGandalf | Isn't IRC IM? |
| 14:25.57 | kai | hey, I'm not the student's parent. my goal isn't to keep them off the street for a summer |
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| 14:26.17 | gevaerts | wonders if he should ignore !polls and try to find out if there's a correlation between "We have many more good students than slots!" and an organisation being relatively new |
| 14:26.17 | testsss | so what is the goal in one sentance? |
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| 14:26.36 | |Kev| | testsss: To gain more OSS contributors, and to help students experience OSS development. |
| 14:27.03 | testsss | ok, thanks. I end this topic :) |
| 14:27.06 | kevin7kal | testsss: the ideal is that they become a contributor to free open source software in general |
| 14:27.10 | kai | as I said, if it was just the code we were after, it would make much more sense to just get the mentors to work on the proposals they'd mentor otherwise |
| 14:27.25 | testsss | so a question - Can I see how many slots my org has ? |
| 14:27.35 | kai | sure |
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| 14:27.38 | gevaerts | You can ask them |
| 14:27.38 | nickbarnesccf | testsss: as a student? |
| 14:27.42 | testsss | yes |
| 14:27.43 | kai | wait until the 25th |
| 14:27.48 | nickbarnesccf | only by asking them. |
| 14:27.49 | testsss | I meant now |
| 14:27.50 | kai | google publishes a list then |
| 14:27.58 | beng-nl | are we allowed to tell the students how many proposals we've had? |
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| 14:28.04 | testsss | I believe you're not |
| 14:28.16 | kai | beng-nl: I don't see the point of doing thet |
| 14:28.20 | kai | *that |
| 14:28.37 | nickbarnesccf | beng-nl: various people have openly discussed it here and elsewhere. |
| 14:28.40 | |Kev| | beng-nl: I don't see what it would achieve. I don't remember seeing that it's explicitly disallowed, although you want to check with Carol. |
| 14:28.54 | beng-nl | mrm |
| 14:29.01 | nickbarnesccf | beng-nl: including me. Nobody has slapped my wrist. |
| 14:29.03 | BrettProfitt | We told our students. We had about 11 very good proposals and wanted to let them know we could only accept 3. |
| 14:29.07 | David_Honeynet | testsss: good luck with your application anyway :) |
| 14:29.22 | kai | beng-nl: assuming I have 4 slots and 50 proposals, but 48 proposals suck, I'll end up giving back two slots |
| 14:29.22 | testsss | nickbarnensccf: how many slots do you have? which org? thanks :) |
| 14:29.27 | beng-nl | kai: well, someone asked about it, and why would i say no unless it's officially disallowed.. |
| 14:29.35 | nickbarnesccf | beng-nl: as for BrettProfitt: we told our students so they would know the level of competition they faced. |
| 14:29.41 | testsss | nickbarnesccf: how many slots do you have? which org? thanks :) |
| 14:29.54 | testsss | sorry I mistyped the name first |
| 14:29.56 | nickbarnesccf | testsss: We are Climate Code Foundation. We had 18 proposals. We have 3 slots. |
| 14:30.07 | testsss | thanks. |
| 14:30.15 | testsss | that's disturbing |
| 14:30.21 | nickbarnesccf | We were very fortunate to get 3 and are very grateful for them. |
| 14:30.25 | testsss | how much slots would OpenSUSE get? they have 39 active ideas |
| 14:30.29 | nickbarnesccf | Although we would have liked 5 or 8. |
| 14:30.32 | BrettProfitt | nickbarnesccf: First year org? |
| 14:30.38 | nickbarnesccf | BrettProfitt: yes. |
| 14:30.46 | David_Honeynet | testsss: slots aren't based on the number of ideas an org lists on their website ;-) |
| 14:30.51 | BrettProfitt | Same here. Very grateful they bumped us up a slot. |
| 14:30.53 | testsss | I understand |
| 14:30.56 | kai | testsss: the number of ideas doesn't come into this at all |
| 14:30.58 | testsss | tha'ts what worries me |
| 14:31.07 | testsss | right so if they get 10 |
| 14:31.17 | kai | gives up |
| 14:31.23 | testsss | ok ok |
| 14:31.38 | testsss | hope I get picked |
| 14:31.41 | testsss | thanks for all the info |
| 14:31.42 | nickbarnesccf | BrettProfitt: what org? |
| 14:31.48 | BrettProfitt | nickbarnesccf: Elgg. Yours? |
| 14:31.54 | nickbarnesccf | Climate Code Foundation. |
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| 14:32.11 | nickbarnesccf | (saving the world, one line of code at a time) |
| 14:32.16 | kai | testsss: in 2005 there were about 9000 proposals submitted for 400 slots overall |
| 14:32.19 | sagi__ | How many slots does Gnome have ? |
| 14:32.23 | BrettProfitt | hah awesome tagline. Googled it ;) |
| 14:32.44 | kai | testsss: and as !numapps shows it was drastically different the last year |
| 14:33.11 | kai | testsss: however, for the orgs I admin for, we get about the same number of decent proposals every year |
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| 14:33.50 | kai | we end up giving back slots pretty often |
| 14:33.51 | nickbarnesccf | kai: which is how many, out of interest? And how many slots do you get? |
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| 14:34.08 | testsss | kai: good for you! :) |
| 14:34.37 | nickbarnesccf | We didn't do a very good ideas page. That's something we have definitely learned and will do better next year. |
| 14:34.38 | Syberia | what about orgs preferences: undergrads, grads or phd students? |
| 14:35.03 | |Kev| | Syberia: Students who're fun to work with. |
| 14:35.04 | kai | testsss: just saying that we never ever got a number of good proposals even close to the number of slots we got |
| 14:35.08 | nickbarnesccf | Syberia: depends a lot on the org type. |
| 14:35.22 | |Kev| | Syberia: I have no preference towards different degree types. |
| 14:35.27 | David_Honeynet | Syberia: depends on their experience, motivation, quality of application, etc |
| 14:35.36 | |Kev| | (After all, anyone who wants a PhD must be insane :)) |
| 14:35.52 | Syberia | why? |
| 14:35.53 | nickbarnesccf | for us, the main thing is that the student's motivation should align with our own goals. |
| 14:35.55 | kai | I never got accepted into GSoC since starting to get a phd |
| 14:36.15 | |Kev| | Syberia: It is said because a significant number of the mentors in here have, or are working towards, a PhD :) |
| 14:36.15 | kai | for some reason melange always decides that org admins don't get to apply ;) |
| 14:36.26 | |Kev| | (Myself included) |
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| 15:02.26 | kai | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:02.28 | kai | er |
| 15:02.52 | kai | !fail |
| 15:02.53 | gsocbot | kai: "fail" is That's not one of my factoids. Pay attention! |
| 15:03.02 | gevaerts | Trying to script your irc client in a language that shouldn't have significant whitespace? :) |
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| 15:05.58 | kai | gevaerts: no, just seemed to have a bit of whitespace there |
| 15:06.15 | kai | /j javascript worked |
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| 16:02.28 | carols_ | peeks in and serves tea and coffee |
| 16:02.32 | carols_ | happy friday everyone |
| 16:03.47 | gevaerts | Weekends are nice :) |
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| 16:05.04 | carols | gevaerts: yes they are |
| 16:05.20 | gevaerts | carols: you'll have to wait a bit longer for it though :) |
| 16:05.38 | carols | gevaerts: its alright. i've got an IRC channel to hang out in and wait for the weekend :-) |
| 16:05.50 | gevaerts | But on the other hand, my monday will be there first :( |
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| 16:08.59 | carols | gevaerts: all the more reason to enjoy the weekend! |
| 16:09.07 | gevaerts | I'll try! |
| 16:09.18 | gevaerts | Lots of talking to students to do... |
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| 16:58.48 | ahel | !next |
| 16:58.48 | gsocbot | ahel: "next" is April 22nd: 19:00 UTC - End of reviews, deduplication meeting on IRC |
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| 17:17.23 | mt | !stats |
| 17:17.23 | gsocbot | mt: I have 2 registered users with 1 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins. |
| 17:17.38 | omegaphi | in case of a duplication, would student be asked for his/her choice of project? |
| 17:18.03 | tomprince | !numapps | mt |
| 17:18.03 | gsocbot | mt: "numapps" is 417 mentoring orgs applied and 175 were accepted this year; 5474 proposals were submitted by 3731 students. In 2010, 367 mentoring orgs applied and 151 were accepted; 5539 proposals were submitted by 3464 students, and 1026 were accepted. |
| 17:18.22 | Catfish_Man | omegaphi: typically an attempt is made, but if the student can't be reached promptly or there are other confounding factors, they might not get to decide |
| 17:18.29 | mt | tomprince: Thanks ! |
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| 17:18.57 | omegaphi | Catfish_Man , ok so those students will be notified about that? |
| 17:19.20 | Catfish_Man | omegaphi: sometimes |
| 17:19.35 | omegaphi | ok |
| 17:20.01 | omegaphi | thanks Catfish_Man |
| 17:20.06 | Catfish_Man | np |
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| 17:21.26 | akshayagarwal | I am eager to spread the awareness of Open Source in my university, could someone suggest me some very practical ways of doing so such that people actually participate |
| 17:21.43 | akshayagarwal | I have tried inspiring my friends to join IRC channels but in vain |
| 17:22.33 | akshayagarwal | actually most are scared that they are not 'eligible' enough to contributr to BIG names like Wikipedia, Apache, Mozilla etc |
| 17:22.35 | vikash | akshayagarwal, which college? |
| 17:22.45 | omegaphi | akshayagarwal : you can start an academic open source project and involve juniors. |
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| 17:23.07 | akshayagarwal | vikash: SGGSIE&T, NAnded |
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| 17:23.26 | akshayagarwal | omegaphi: that sounds good |
| 17:23.39 | Catfish_Man | akshayagarwal: I would suggest to them that they don't need to say that they're still in schoo |
| 17:23.39 | Catfish_Man | l |
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| 17:24.15 | Catfish_Man | akshayagarwal: the problem with starting a new project specifically to include students is that it lacks the real world context that makes open source so valuable to work on |
| 17:24.25 | Catfish_Man | there's no substitute for actual users and actual problems |
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| 17:24.38 | tomprince | Hanging out here, I have got the impression that a bunch of mentors are also currently students |
| 17:25.00 | akshayagarwal | @Catfish_Man: yeah, thats true |
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| 17:25.42 | akshayagarwal | tomprince: yes, i have seen prior participatins of GSoC helping as mentors |
| 17:25.46 | Catfish_Man | akshayagarwal: I got involved in open source because I dropped by #adium to ask for help using it, and someone was talking about a chess plugin. I volunteered to test it, then ended up fixing bugs, then ended up expanding out to the rest of the project |
| 17:26.09 | drt24 | tomprince: I am currently a student and intending to mentor. |
| 17:26.12 | Catfish_Man | akshayagarwal: it really is as simple as "hey, here's a patch. Review please?" for most projects |
| 17:26.54 | Catfish_Man | (note that "simple" does not imply "not scary". It's friggin terrifying at first) |
| 17:27.02 | vikash | akshayagarwal, Please say the ful name and location! |
| 17:27.19 | tomprince | as am I. (partly .. I have other commitments for part of the summer) |
| 17:27.46 | vikash | akshayagarwal, Please say the ful name and location! |
| 17:27.46 | knapper_tech | when's the deadline? the dev team I was going to apply under seems to think it's today. |
| 17:28.24 | tomprince | knapper_tech: deadline for what? student application dealine was a week ago. |
| 17:28.39 | akshayagarwal | @Catfish_Man: so, do I put up notices giving relevant links? |
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| 17:29.26 | Catfish_Man | akshayagarwal: I don't know. I do know that Mozilla (and probably others) occasionally will visit schools to talk about open source |
| 17:29.37 | Catfish_Man | you could try getting on their irc server and discussing it |
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| 17:29.41 | tomprince | akshayagarwal: maybe have a look at http://openhatch.org/ |
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| 17:30.18 | vikash | akshayagarwal, Please say the ful name and location |
| 17:30.30 | akshayagarwal | @Catfish_Man: yes, but they do so only for some very popular ones |
| 17:31.01 | akshayagarwal | vikash: Shri Guru Gobind Singhji Insitute of Engineering & Technology, Nanded, Maharshtra, India |
| 17:31.09 | bobbens | akshayagarwal: you could find some project with many small jobs and organize a code-a-thon by previously talking to the devs beforehand |
| 17:31.12 | Catfish_Man | akshayagarwal: perhaps, but reaching out to them and asking would likely go a long way towards getting their attention |
| 17:32.04 | akshayagarwal | @Catfish_Man: yes, I will do that |
| 17:32.26 | Catfish_Man | they might also have oss evangelism/education people that could give you advice |
| 17:32.29 | Catfish_Man | I believe KDE does as well |
| 17:32.38 | akshayagarwal | Does Google Open Source Programs Office offer any assistance regarding this? |
| 17:33.07 | Catfish_Man | hmm, I don't know! Let's see if carols_ is around |
| 17:33.18 | carols_ | peeks in |
| 17:33.21 | carols_ | hey Catfish_Man |
| 17:33.26 | Catfish_Man | aloha :) |
| 17:33.33 | carols_ | what kind of assistance do we need today? |
| 17:33.43 | vikash | akshayagarwal, I think directly starting for contribution towards open Source is frightening! Do find a linux users group or any other group with similar ideologies and atleast for some time organize free workshops and all! and then move ahead towards contribution |
| 17:33.59 | Catfish_Man | carols_: akshayagarwal here is wondering if GOSPO has any resources on evangelizing/educating OSS to students |
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| 17:34.05 | Catfish_Man | they're trying to get people involved at their school |
| 17:34.26 | Catfish_Man | I suggested talking to the Mozilla and KDE folks, since I know they have outreach stuff |
| 17:34.30 | carols_ | akshayagarwal: why dont you hold a meetup? we can provide stickers and notebooks and such to get people to come |
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| 17:35.12 | vikash | carols_, Do you work in India? And you work in which company? |
| 17:35.28 | carols_ | vikash: no, i work in california. for google. i'm the gsoc program administrator. |
| 17:35.34 | knapper_tech | FOSS + Droid + Tegra + Mono will own. There is much bank to be had. Wintelsoft has a long way to fall. |
| 17:35.46 | knapper_tech | peace to you all v( -_-) |
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| 17:36.11 | akshayagarwal | carols_: that will make it attractive, please tell more about it |
| 17:36.35 | carols_ | akshayagarwal: um, i think i've told you everything. you organize, we send notebooks and stickers. :-) people come. you talk to them. |
| 17:37.10 | vikash | carols_, Awesome! can I /query you Sir |
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| 17:37.20 | carols_ | vikash: i'm a ma'am, and sure. |
| 17:37.42 | omegaphi | :D |
| 17:38.10 | carols_ | serves some more tea and cookies |
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| 17:38.27 | akshayagarwal | carols_: well, till today, even I had the impression of 'Sir', lolz |
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| 17:39.05 | eoc | !cookie | carols_ |
| 17:39.05 | gsocbot | carols_: "cookie" is omnomnom |
| 17:39.16 | baer | carols_: are you going to be at the i/o this year? |
| 17:39.26 | carols_ | baer: nope. couldn't get a ticket |
| 17:39.36 | baer | damn ;) |
| 17:39.47 | akshayagarwal | carols_: How much prior should I inform you so that you facilitate sending the stuff? |
| 17:39.55 | baer | we talked about having a little gsoc meetup at the io |
| 17:40.09 | carols_ | akshayagarwal: what country are you in? if it's india or brazil it takes us about 3 weeks to ship things there. |
| 17:40.14 | vikash | carols_, Sorry Ma'am! |
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| 17:40.28 | carols_ | baer: please do. we're having a gsoc dinner on monday - email me if you're interested |
| 17:40.31 | akshayagarwal | carols_: India |
| 17:40.39 | carols_ | vikash: it's fine. on the internet no one knows you're a dog. |
| 17:40.53 | carols_ | akshayagarwal: so then at least 3 weeks before your event if you want your stuff in time for your event. |
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| 17:42.17 | akshayagarwal | carols_: what kind of strength should we organise the meetup for so that the goodies are in proportional quantities? |
| 17:42.24 | SRabbelier | ohi |
| 17:42.35 | carols_ | akshayagarwal: you tell me how many you want and i'll send them. |
| 17:42.45 | carols_ | hi SRabbelier. happy friday |
| 17:43.01 | SRabbelier | carols_: TGII |
| 17:43.12 | carols_ | SRabbelier: indeed. |
| 17:43.34 | SRabbelier | not that the weekend is much different :P |
| 17:43.42 | akshayagarwal | carols_: so, do you need any letterhead confrimations from the univ regarding the meetup? |
| 17:43.55 | baer | carols_: sounds good, i'll email you. |
| 17:43.56 | carols_ | akshayagarwal: no, it's fine. are you an honest person? |
| 17:44.01 | carols_ | baer: cool |
| 17:44.23 | akshayagarwal | carols_: no, :) |
| 17:44.33 | baer | carols_: is it cool if i post something about an informal meetup on the students list and you forward it to the mentors list? |
| 17:44.48 | carols_ | akshayagarwal: then yes, i'll need a letter. |
| 17:45.07 | carols_ | baer: post it to the meetups list, please :-) |
| 17:45.18 | akshayagarwal | carols_, heh, :-) |
| 17:46.15 | SRabbelier | !comentor |
| 17:46.19 | SRabbelier | !co-mentor |
| 17:46.19 | gsocbot | SRabbelier: "co-mentor" is You can be added as co-mentor once the proposals have been converted to projects, which will happen when announcing the accepted students. |
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| 17:46.58 | akshayagarwal | carols_: if we can organise it at a larger level, then do you think somebody from Google India would like to come up for some excellent 'direct from the industry' inputs? |
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| 17:52.17 | vikash | akshayagarwal, I am currently associated with Google Technology Users grp, You can easily form one in you college and sure google advocates do come |
| 17:53.41 | akshayagarwal | vikash: thats great! how can I do so? |
| 17:54.13 | gevaerts | akshayagarwal: step one: use Google Technology :) |
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| 17:55.35 | vikash | gevaerts, +1 |
| 17:55.43 | akshayagarwal | gevaerts, :) |
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| 17:57.13 | aseem | vikash : When did google came to Manipal ? I missed them,I guess. |
| 17:58.35 | vikash | aseem, We have a user group of google in Manipal, though its not so active currently :(. Are you from Manipal |
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| 18:07.00 | vikash | aseem, You are in which college |
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| 18:10.32 | vikash | akshayagarwal, Use google! |
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| 18:12.12 | akshayagarwal | vikash, yeah for everynody else still wondering whats Google Technology User Group, here's the link http://www.gtugs.org/ |
| 18:12.57 | vikash | akshayagarwal, see the wiki page more info on the same |
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| 18:14.20 | vikash | has the slots for organizations decided? |
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| 18:14.51 | aseem | vikash : Yeah. From Manipal. |
| 18:15.14 | vikash | aseem, which col, MIT! which branch? which year? |
| 18:21.24 | SRabbelier | vikash: yes |
| 18:21.53 | vikash | SRabbelier, yes, for what? |
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| 18:22.22 | SRabbelier | vikash: your most recent true/false question |
| 18:23.05 | vikash | SRabbelier, thanks can I get to know for one or 2 org |
| 18:23.16 | SRabbelier | vikash: ask them |
| 18:23.32 | vikash | SRabbelier, Can I do a /query |
| 18:23.45 | SRabbelier | vikash: why? |
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| 18:24.16 | akshayagarwal | @SRabbelier, are organizations supposed/allowed to disclose the no. of slots to the applicants? |
| 18:24.21 | vikash | SRabbelier, Ok! I want to know for X and Gnome |
| 18:24.40 | kblin | SRabbelier: and I want a pony |
| 18:24.42 | SRabbelier | vikash: I don't work for either, ask them |
| 18:24.52 | SRabbelier | kblin: don't we all kblin, don't we all |
| 18:24.53 | vikash | hmmm |
| 18:25.02 | SRabbelier | akshayagarwal: sure, they can, if they so choose |
| 18:25.22 | kblin | SRabbelier: I see why Ivanovic doesn't get one, he just wants to eat his |
| 18:25.55 | kblin | akshayagarwal: so my personal opinion on that is that I don't disclose the numbers |
| 18:26.06 | kblin | they're meaningless |
| 18:26.21 | SRabbelier | kblin: bacon is more tasty anyway |
| 18:26.26 | carols_ | mmm bacon |
| 18:27.05 | kblin | and whoever lacks the patience of waiting for 10 days to find out something will have real trouble in other aspects of life as well |
| 18:27.18 | Ivanovic | kblin: hey, pony sounds so tasty in my ears! |
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| 18:27.35 | *** mode/#gsoc [+o carols_] by mlankhorst |
| 18:27.42 | akshayagarwal | @kblin: I agree, trying hard to do so :) |
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| 18:29.22 | kblin | hey mlankhorst, how's things? |
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| 18:31.16 | mlankhorst | good :) |
| 18:31.23 | mlankhorst | waiting on portal 2 actually :P |
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| 18:31.51 | kblin | mlankhorst: hehe |
| 18:32.05 | kblin | mlankhorst: is that due out soon? |
| 18:32.18 | mlankhorst | yeah |
| 18:32.24 | mlankhorst | http://www.aperturescience.com/glados@home/ |
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| 18:34.43 | SRabbelier | already bought the potato sack but doesn't have time to play it |
| 18:34.50 | vikash | Bye Everyone! I am off to sleep :) |
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| 18:37.19 | mlankhorst | didn't buy it, just wants portal 2 |
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| 18:38.38 | Basher91 | { |
| 18:38.51 | Basher91 | ahh sorry guys, wrong window was under focus |
| 18:40.12 | kblin | mlankhorst: hehe |
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| 18:40.44 | kblin | meh, my steam window keeps vanishing wine |
| 18:42.28 | mlankhorst | seems to love to do that when you miss fonts |
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| 18:57.03 | kblin | mlankhorst: hm, let me have a look at that :) |
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| 19:07.39 | akshayagarwal | carols: I had a talk with my friends regarding the meetup, we are thinking of giving away a few t-shirts to students who have the most active participation, could you send us the design so that we can have it printed here? |
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| 19:19.01 | szeke_ | hi |
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| 19:21.08 | szeke_ | is it possible to edit my proposal? |
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| 19:23.09 | SukhE | !edit | szeke_ |
| 19:23.10 | gsocbot | szeke_: "edit" is (#1) You can edit your proposal up until the application deadline on April 8th, 19:00 UTC., or (#2) Comments on proposals however, can _not_ be edited after submitting., or (#3) Mentors can allow students to edit proposals on a case-by-case basis after the deadline has expired. |
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| 19:24.10 | szeke_ | thank you |
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| 19:49.45 | gevaerts | !anyone |
| 19:49.45 | gsocbot | gevaerts: "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. Try searching for the org's contact info or even just try a /join #<mentoring org here> |
| 19:49.56 | gevaerts | hm, best not to ask my question here then... |
| 19:51.45 | kblin | !gsoc | gevaerts |
| 19:51.46 | gsocbot | gevaerts: "gsoc" is Google Summer of Code, not Generic Savoir-faire on Open-source Conundrums |
| 19:51.49 | kblin | :D |
| 19:51.56 | gevaerts | My question was gsoc related! |
| 19:52.09 | kblin | right :) |
| 19:52.34 | gevaerts | I want to talk to someone who was involved (as a mentor/admin) with gsoc in a (specific) other org last year :) |
| 19:52.56 | kblin | try a /join #<mentoring org here> |
| 19:53.00 | kblin | :D |
| 19:53.16 | gevaerts | may or may not have done so :) |
| 19:53.22 | kblin | doesn't always work of course |
| 19:53.42 | kblin | e.g. for mlankhorst's org, you need to /j #winehackers |
| 19:54.14 | kblin | and there's nothing at all going on in #beerhackers |
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| 19:55.31 | kblin | meh, I give up on this javascript magic |
| 19:55.41 | gevaerts | hm, I did remember the right nick, but he's offline now |
| 19:56.17 | kblin | !patience | kblin |
| 19:56.17 | gsocbot | kblin: "patience" is Patience is very important in GSoC/GCI. Relax and go code something useful. |
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| 19:56.55 | kblin | hm, I could start learning some text |
| 19:57.01 | kblin | nah, too useful |
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| 20:21.01 | sashikanth | What if a student accepted by an organization, gets a better job offer for the summer (like from Google), between now and 22nd May ? |
| 20:21.23 | sashikanth | Can the slot be re-assigned by the organization to another student ? |
| 20:21.33 | jrabbit | No I don't think it can. |
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| 20:23.08 | David_Honeynet | sashikanth: the slot will probably not be used, so some other student effectively misses out on a slot |
| 20:23.17 | ajedwards | If you pull out after 21st April, the slot will likely not be filled at all |
| 20:23.59 | ajedwards | deduplication is on 22nd April - this is the very last chance in reality... or you'll be putting someone out of a place |
| 20:24.19 | sashikanth | David_Honeynet: I see ... |
| 20:24.47 | ajedwards | sashikanth, speak to the org/s you submitted proposal/s to |
| 20:25.00 | David_Honeynet | so if the student think they are likely to be accepted for gsoc but then drop out before it starts, they should discuss it with their org now |
| 20:25.11 | bobbens | well that's a problem with how things work in general |
| 20:25.12 | sashikanth | ajedwards: I'm actually a tentative mentor |
| 20:25.19 | ajedwards | ah - i see! |
| 20:25.21 | bobbens | you have to apply to lots of stuff in order to ensure you get something in the summer |
| 20:25.37 | ajedwards | well the same applies, if a mentor pulls out the student probably wont continue |
| 20:25.38 | bobbens | and that's a pain when you have to let go some of the options |
| 20:26.05 | ajedwards | bobbens, i told my girlfriend to put off vacation until after Gsoc |
| 20:26.13 | ajedwards | and i have cleared any plans i had |
| 20:26.26 | bobbens | well I'm speaking of say scholarships and other things |
| 20:26.32 | gevaerts | ajedwards: let me guess, you now have no girlfriend to worry about? ;) |
| 20:26.42 | bobbens | like I may or may not get a 4 year scholarship to do a phd which would start mid-gsoc |
| 20:26.43 | ajedwards | you obviously don't want it enough |
| 20:26.48 | bobbens | but they take 6 months to answer |
| 20:26.54 | bobbens | so I can't really do anything about it |
| 20:26.57 | ajedwards | gevaerts, nah - she was ok with it |
| 20:27.09 | bobbens | had to apply to other things which they've already not accepted me while taking 4 months to think about it |
| 20:27.15 | bobbens | so you just have to apply to everything in parallel |
| 20:27.19 | ajedwards | bobbens, then you don't want Gsoc enough, if it's a fallback option |
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| 20:28.17 | ajedwards | best advice i ever got was to decide what you want and go for it, second options only hold you back |
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| 20:31.53 | bobbens | ajedwards: it's not that easy to do what you want |
| 20:32.01 | bobbens | and what you think you want now may be different in 6 months |
| 20:32.15 | bobbens | and gsoc isn't a fallback option as it's pretty likely for me to not get that |
| 20:32.20 | bobbens | times are tough in spain :) |
| 20:32.29 | bobbens | -30% scholarships, +50% applications |
| 20:32.31 | ajedwards | times are tough in the uk too... |
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| 20:32.43 | bobbens | so now you have to apply like 5x as much |
| 20:32.43 | ajedwards | doesn't mean i try any less hard to get what i want.. |
| 20:32.45 | bobbens | to get anything |
| 20:33.26 | bobbens | ajedwards: it's very different getting a 4 year scholarship where you can focus on work instead of "doing what you want" but having to fight every day for funding and such |
| 20:33.36 | bobbens | and in the end if it's interesting you can enjoy it too |
| 20:33.53 | bobbens | not to mention what I did apply for 8 months ago isn't what I would apply for again now :) |
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| 20:34.29 | bobbens | no point in being stubborn, you have to learn to adapt and go with the flow :) |
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| 20:35.13 | LetterRip | so the day i decide to have our team do decisions for the finalists slots |
| 20:35.17 | ajedwards | i'm not stubborn, but i make a decision and follow it through, it's how i ended up on my degree - decided i want more, left my job as a manager and went for it |
| 20:35.27 | LetterRip | the DNS for our mailing list and site gets DoSed |
| 20:35.40 | LetterRip | meaning no one on our list gets the mail... |
| 20:35.50 | LetterRip | oh well, glad i didn't wait till the final second :) |
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| 20:36.03 | bobbens | ajedwards: well for example I'd love to be doing work on dimensional kinematic synthesis, the research group wants me and such, but there is no funding, nor real chance of funding |
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| 20:36.06 | ajedwards | turned out ok for me, the business i was working for went into receivership recently, so i would have been made redundant! |
| 20:36.17 | bobbens | while I would love to do that, I am applying to work on event-based control and such |
| 20:36.20 | bobbens | which is also interesting |
| 20:36.39 | bobbens | but the difference is they have funding |
| 20:36.55 | ajedwards | personally i'd work for the first one until funding was found |
| 20:37.17 | bobbens | chances are the next "funding" would be in 4 years |
| 20:37.18 | ajedwards | your passion will make you better and they will be more inclined to find you some funding |
| 20:37.31 | bobbens | you should come to spain and see our beaurocracy :) |
| 20:37.38 | bobbens | it's really really not easy :) |
| 20:38.05 | bobbens | not to mention that as a research group they don't want me working with them if I don't have funding |
| 20:38.13 | ajedwards | i looked into having my wedding there, apparently you guys don't make that easy either :p |
| 20:38.25 | bobbens | give us a few years |
| 20:38.29 | bobbens | and we'll be worse than greece :P |
| 20:38.33 | ajedwards | ugh! |
| 20:38.40 | bobbens | I want to get out |
| 20:38.47 | ajedwards | my experience with greece has been "can't work? wont work..." |
| 20:38.47 | bobbens | but my degree is seen as a bachelors |
| 20:38.49 | bobbens | so I can't really get out |
| 20:38.56 | bobbens | without having to jump through many loops |
| 20:39.17 | ajedwards | you're in the EU and speak good english (by the looks of it) i'm sure you'd be fairly welcome here |
| 20:39.38 | bobbens | I've tried, but first off, my degree is seen as a bachelor when in theory it's master level too |
| 20:39.45 | bobbens | and secondly, the grading system here is really harsh |
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| 20:39.57 | bobbens | so while my 1.6 "GPA" is good here, it's considered rubbish elsewhere |
| 20:40.04 | bobbens | so I never make the preliminary grade cuts |
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| 20:40.12 | ajedwards | what's 1.6? :s |
| 20:40.27 | ajedwards | we have first class, 2:1, 2:2, third and fail |
| 20:40.31 | bobbens | our grade is from 5-10 (5 is pass, 10 is best) |
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| 20:40.39 | bobbens | 5-7 = 1, 7-9 = 2, 9+ = 3 and 10 = 4 |
| 20:40.47 | bobbens | only at most 5% of the class can get a 10 (usually less) |
| 20:40.56 | bobbens | they then average that weighing it by credits |
| 20:41.04 | bobbens | and that's the "GPA" which is what they look at in europe |
| 20:41.09 | LetterRip | bobbens - yeah in the US if you aren't 3.0+ |
| 20:41.19 | LetterRip | you are considered a bad student |
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| 20:41.22 | bobbens | well we have a "negative reinforcement" system |
| 20:41.25 | LetterRip | are a weak student |
| 20:41.28 | bobbens | US has "positive reinforcement" |
| 20:41.33 | ajedwards | our grading is 15 http://www.fcet.staffs.ac.uk/current_students/grade_table.htm |
| 20:41.34 | bobbens | there if you aren't A++++ you suck |
| 20:41.39 | bobbens | here they flunk 40% of the class |
| 20:41.45 | bobbens | so if you finish in 6 years you're good |
| 20:41.51 | bobbens | (5 year degree) |
| 20:41.56 | bobbens | very very few finish in 5 years |
| 20:42.07 | ajedwards | we do bachelors (with honors) in 3 |
| 20:42.33 | ajedwards | most degrees (real degrees, not art etc) are focused |
| 20:42.40 | bobbens | I've had classes where the highest grade is a 6.5 |
| 20:42.46 | bobbens | which would be a "1" on the GPA scale |
| 20:42.50 | bobbens | and that's final grade :) |
| 20:43.20 | ajedwards | yeah - that sounds like an awful system |
| 20:43.25 | bobbens | well, it's not awful |
| 20:43.27 | bobbens | it's different |
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| 20:43.42 | bobbens | the thing is when you compare it with other systems |
| 20:43.54 | bobbens | we get the short end of the stick |
| 20:43.59 | ajedwards | i see |
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| 20:44.24 | bobbens | well this degree used to be much harder |
| 20:44.31 | bobbens | 50 years ago it was 7 years, with a really hard entry exam |
| 20:44.36 | bobbens | average finishing time was like 12 years |
| 20:44.47 | bobbens | now it's "only" 5 years with average finishing time of 7 or so |
| 20:44.54 | bobbens | with no real entry exam |
| 20:45.00 | bobbens | although first year they kick out 60% of students |
| 20:45.20 | pvaibhav | which degree is that? |
| 20:45.24 | ajedwards | here my course started with 240 students and now we have roughly 60 left |
| 20:45.30 | bobbens | "Superior Industrial Engineering" |
| 20:45.34 | bobbens | in my case specialized in automation |
| 20:45.44 | bobbens | but this is typical of "Superior Engineering" degrees here |
| 20:46.20 | pvaibhav | hm |
| 20:46.37 | bobbens | doesn't matter anymore |
| 20:46.47 | bobbens | with Bologna it's turning into 4 year bachelor + 2 year master |
| 20:46.56 | bobbens | (instead of 3+2 like every other country) |
| 20:47.05 | ajedwards | here a masters is typically one year |
| 20:47.13 | ajedwards | 2 part time |
| 20:47.16 | bobbens | it depends on the master |
| 20:47.26 | bobbens | currently here there are "hard masters" which are 2 years |
| 20:47.31 | bobbens | and the more joke 1 year masters |
| 20:47.31 | ajedwards | possibly, i can only speak for computer science/software engineering |
| 20:47.35 | bobbens | although there's some good 1 year masters |
| 20:47.39 | bobbens | but generally they're jokes |
| 20:47.47 | bobbens | the bologna system has introduced many ridiculous masters |
| 20:48.16 | ajedwards | here you have to pass 180 credits in a year, which consists of 4-6 modules in each semester and a 60 credit thesis |
| 20:48.48 | bobbens | I've just spent a year on my "degree thesis" >_> |
| 20:48.49 | aalvarez | pj pcbsd |
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| 20:48.57 | aalvarez | sorry about that |
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| 20:49.36 | ajedwards | my degree allocates 12 months project work and accounts for roughly 40-50% of the final grade |
| 20:50.01 | bobbens | my thesis is 24 credits iirc, which is less than a "hard semester" of class |
| 20:50.10 | bobbens | I did 40 credits in a semester once, was pretty intense |
| 20:50.24 | bobbens | 34 hours of lectures a week + projects and stuff |
| 20:50.25 | bobbens | do not recommend |
| 20:51.12 | kblin | is glad he narrowly avoided the bologna reforms |
| 20:51.23 | ajedwards | we do 120 credits per year split in two semesters over 8 modules |
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| 20:51.40 | ajedwards | and if we fail, we carry it to next year and it is capped to a pass only with no credit |
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| 20:53.47 | bobbens | well iirc 1 credit here with the current system amounts to 1 hour/week of lectures aproximately |
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| 20:53.58 | bobbens | with bologna they take into account "the work you should do at home" |
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| 20:54.04 | bobbens | so it becomes really strange |
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| 20:55.27 | ajedwards | 15 credits = 150 hours work (4h*12 contact with tutors) |
| 20:55.40 | ajedwards | so 48 and 112 of home based work |
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| 20:57.58 | pvaibhav | whoa |
| 20:58.01 | ajedwards | typically we have 4 hours contact time each week and 4 modules at any time |
| 20:58.06 | pvaibhav | my thesis is 10 credits |
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| 21:02.28 | ajedwards | mine is 45 credits which is supposedly translated into 450 hours work over 2 semesters (8 months realistically) |
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| 21:07.27 | Nei | /x |
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| 21:08.04 | pvaibhav | and that's for a bachelor degree? |
| 21:08.14 | pvaibhav | seems quite excessive |
| 21:08.44 | pvaibhav | are those 45 ECTS credits btw? |
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| 21:40.26 | ajedwards | pvaibhav, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Credit_Transfer_and_Accumulation_System |
| 21:40.32 | ajedwards | 120 per academic year |
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| 21:41.14 | pvaibhav | that is hardcore, my uni uses ECTS credits, 60 per year for undergrads |
| 21:41.22 | pvaibhav | and i think *that's* tough |
| 21:41.29 | ThFabba | Wait, ECTS points have different meanings in different countries? LOL gotta love standardization |
| 21:41.38 | ajedwards | LOT of failures on our "real" degrees - the sciences |
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| 21:41.59 | ajedwards | ThFabba, different hour values mainly |
| 21:42.24 | bobbens | ECTS are a bit messed up |
| 21:42.34 | pvaibhav | oh so in england it's 2x normal |
| 21:42.34 | bobbens | since they are based on speculations of time and effort each student puts in |
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| 21:42.45 | bobbens | but same with the old system |
| 21:42.45 | ThFabba | Heh, messed up. Heh |
| 21:42.56 | bobbens | I've had classes that are 3 credits and give me 10x more work than a 6 credit class |
| 21:43.14 | ajedwards | all our classes are 15 or 30 at my university - others aren't so lucky |
| 21:43.24 | pvaibhav | and 1/3rd workload per credit compared to germany :P that's not so bad |
| 21:43.26 | bobbens | ours are 3, 4.5 or 6 |
| 21:43.47 | bobbens | but it's all a mess |
| 21:43.52 | ThFabba | wishes he'd be studying for Dipl.-Ing. instead of B.Sc./M.Sc. more and more often these days :D |
| 21:43.58 | pvaibhav | each course is usually 5 credits here. 10 for grad courses |
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| 21:44.23 | bobbens | ThFabba: I'm one of the last to be an "Engineer" and not a B.Sc/M.Sc in engineering :P |
| 21:44.32 | pvaibhav | used to be 4.5 up until a few years ago |
| 21:44.33 | ajedwards | ThFabba, funding for anything BUT a bachelors here is a nightmare |
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| 21:44.58 | ajedwards | bobbens, MEnG/BEnG is not well received in industry here |
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| 21:45.20 | ajedwards | it's the same degree, different name (i asked..) |
| 21:45.27 | bobbens | engineer is really well recieved |
| 21:45.32 | bobbens | my problem is we're not recieved well in academia :P |
| 21:45.37 | ThFabba | Hehe |
| 21:45.49 | bobbens | but it doesn't matter, as the same priveleges I have are now given to B.Sc in engineering |
| 21:45.57 | ajedwards | here if you have an engineering degree you'll spend your time explaining why it isn't a BSc |
| 21:46.08 | bobbens | here it's pretty important |
| 21:46.17 | bobbens | if you have it they understand you really worked your ass off |
| 21:46.18 | pvaibhav | B."Sc" is seen as a bad degree in india |
| 21:46.24 | bobbens | and you have to be pretty good |
| 21:46.24 | pvaibhav | gotta be B."Tech." |
| 21:46.57 | bobbens | and I get to build big buildings, power plants and all the likes :P |
| 21:46.58 | ajedwards | Tech is a made up degree in the eyes of our academics |
| 21:47.08 | pvaibhav | so even with a BSc in engineering i need to do some explaining why it's not BTech |
| 21:47.20 | bobbens | I only have to explain to non-spanish |
| 21:47.31 | bobbens | and they usually just treat me as a bachelor which makes me die a bit inside :P |
| 21:47.37 | pvaibhav | lol |
| 21:48.54 | bobbens | I find that instead of unification |
| 21:48.57 | bobbens | like plan bologna intended |
| 21:49.01 | bobbens | it's just more fragmentation |
| 21:49.11 | bobbens | now every country has new plans that are all incompatible and different |
| 21:49.18 | bobbens | _AND_ they still have the old incompatible plans |
| 21:49.30 | bobbens | so they basically double incompatible plans and make it oh so hard to understand what is going on |
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| 21:52.15 | loufoque | pvaibhav: anything with "tech" is rated lower than "science" |
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| 22:01.15 | jrabbit | Computer science :P |
| 22:04.32 | pvaibhav | loufoque: academically, but if you're out looking for a job, 'tech' guys get hired in the blink of an eye |
| 22:04.43 | ajedwards | pvaibhav, where exactly? |
| 22:04.51 | ajedwards | certainly not here... |
| 22:04.57 | pvaibhav | india |
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| 22:05.32 | ajedwards | I imagine in the west they'll question the degree title itself before even inviting you for interview |
| 22:05.40 | pvaibhav | i study in EU however, hence my B'Sc' for what would be called B'tech' back home ;) |
| 22:06.11 | pvaibhav | well 'western' companies both in india and abroad are among the largest employers of btech graduates |
| 22:06.38 | pvaibhav | it's more applied than sciencey (i assume), hence more useful |
| 22:07.00 | ajedwards | i disagree, based on my experience at my own university |
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| 22:07.31 | loufoque | I didn't know studies were meant to teach you things directly useful in the real world |
| 22:07.35 | ajedwards | perhaps it's different elsewhere, but ours take an applied approach towards the sciences and award a science degree |
| 22:08.09 | pvaibhav | well then I guess it's only a difference in terminology |
| 22:08.22 | bobbens | loufoque: they do |
| 22:08.30 | bobbens | but only the boring classes :P |
| 22:08.35 | ajedwards | lol |
| 22:08.57 | bobbens | (says the person who regrets not doing theoretical mathematics) |
| 22:09.05 | ajedwards | ours course is insistent on a year long industrial placement |
| 22:09.13 | loufoque | the things that are really useful for your job you can only learn by practicing the job in question |
| 22:09.16 | kakazza | <ajedwards> 15 credits = 150 hours work <== In UK maybe, not in pretty much everywhere else in the EU. |
| 22:09.44 | bobbens | loufoque: our degree is oriented to be a jack of all trades master of none, but so that with minimal training you can be adapted to any technical position |
| 22:09.48 | ajedwards | kakazza, obviously the hours are variable, but that's what the award board looks for |
| 22:09.50 | bobbens | but lots of stuff is directly useful |
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| 22:10.14 | kakazza | So there is no exchange rate? If I go to the UK I can have ECTS up to three times faster? |
| 22:10.26 | ajedwards | kakazza, no |
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| 22:11.14 | ajedwards | the table shows that the value is different |
| 22:11.34 | kakazza | It says 120 CP per year and "~10" Hours per CP. |
| 22:11.45 | kakazza | Compared to an average of 25-30 everywhere else. |
| 22:11.54 | kakazza | So it seems to be a lot less work in the UK. |
| 22:12.20 | ajedwards | by all means, research it further and i'm sure you'll see that that is not the case |
| 22:12.20 | kakazza | 120*10 = 1200, 60*25 = 1500 |
| 22:12.54 | kakazza | What I don't get is why the UK even has a different scale. |
| 22:13.06 | ajedwards | we don't do general modules (they're worthless..) and we fulfill bachelors requirements in 30 months, the further 6 months is an honors degree |
| 22:13.13 | bobbens | UK has to be special |
| 22:13.16 | bobbens | can't use metric :) |
| 22:13.22 | kakazza | or the Euro ;p |
| 22:13.32 | ajedwards | we don't want to be considered europe :) |
| 22:13.38 | bobbens | euro is an economical decision |
| 22:13.44 | bobbens | metric is just plain common sense |
| 22:13.46 | kakazza | Maybe they do have imperial ECTS ;) |
| 22:13.47 | ajedwards | ask anyone, we DO NOT consider ourselves european... |
| 22:14.09 | bobbens | don't see why you don't want to |
| 22:14.12 | bobbens | europe is where the fun is |
| 22:14.13 | AlexP | We do use metric |
| 22:14.14 | kakazza | ajedwards, I am not sure. Is that positive when being part of Europe and the European Union? |
| 22:14.14 | ajedwards | as far as the majority of our country is concerned we're british and that's that |
| 22:14.39 | ajedwards | kakazza, there was no vote on that from what i recall... |
| 22:14.45 | ajedwards | most people are against it |
| 22:15.18 | AlexP | Some parts of the EU are great, for instance I work in France with no mucking about with visas etc. |
| 22:15.23 | AlexP | Other parts less so |
| 22:15.38 | ajedwards | the influx of immigrants and the bailing our countries isn't so great |
| 22:15.45 | ajedwards | s/our/out |
| 22:16.01 | AlexP | The former is both arguable and not an EU thing |
| 22:16.23 | bobbens | and you guys cheat by joining in on many europe treaty thingies |
| 22:16.28 | mlankhorst | bailing out however is stupid :/ |
| 22:16.34 | AlexP | bobbens: Cheat how? |
| 22:16.37 | AlexP | We are in Europe |
| 22:16.43 | ajedwards | unfortunately |
| 22:16.51 | AlexP | Why do we get rubbish for not being in the Euro? |
| 22:16.56 | AlexP | looks at e.g. Sweden |
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| 22:17.06 | bobbens | doesn't UK have free commerce treaties and such like the rest of europe? |
| 22:17.09 | bobbens | dunno |
| 22:17.13 | ajedwards | the Euro was a good deal... but it was never worth trading our strong currency at the time |
| 22:17.13 | bobbens | I like iceland :) |
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| 22:17.19 | AlexP | bobbens: Yes, the same as the rest of Europe |
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| 22:17.28 | AlexP | As we are, you know, in the EU and that |
| 22:17.30 | kakazza | ajedwards, at the time. |
| 22:17.41 | ajedwards | kakazza, it still isn't |
| 22:17.46 | AlexP | It is fortunate we are not in the Euro now |
| 22:17.56 | AlexP | As we would have been in even bigger trouble that we are with it |
| 22:17.57 | bobbens | actually the coin is what I dislike the most |
| 22:18.02 | kakazza | Well, I admit I buy a lot in the UK because it's so weak compared to the Euro right now. |
| 22:18.02 | bobbens | drove prices up like crazy in spain |
| 22:18.24 | bobbens | but it's comfortable when moving around |
| 22:18.31 | bobbens | changing monies is really annoying |
| 22:18.37 | AlexP | I really don't understand all the hate towards the UK, other countries do all the same things |
| 22:18.44 | AlexP | It is just small minded |
| 22:18.48 | ajedwards | AlexP, war and politics :) |
| 22:18.55 | ajedwards | like eurovision LOL |
| 22:18.59 | AlexP | ajedwards: bigotry |
| 22:19.01 | ajedwards | what a JOKE! |
| 22:19.42 | gevaerts | What's wrong with eurovision? You don't like agreements to exchange TV material? |
| 22:19.52 | AlexP | hehe :) |
| 22:19.58 | ajedwards | gevaerts, we always come last! |
| 22:20.04 | gevaerts | ajedwards: come last? |
| 22:20.12 | gevaerts | doesn't understand |
| 22:20.14 | AlexP | gevaerts: the tactical voting is amusing :) |
| 22:20.48 | gevaerts | I mean, eurovision is an agreement between broadcasters to avoid having to send camera crews everywhere and to share material |
| 22:20.53 | gevaerts | How can you come last in that? |
| 22:21.05 | baer | he is talking about the song contest thingy |
| 22:21.22 | AlexP | baer: He knows :) |
| 22:21.25 | gevaerts | Oh |
| 22:21.27 | ajedwards | gevaerts, i was discussing the song contest.. we always have a laugh at how europe hates our guts |
| 22:21.31 | AlexP | He is just being gevaerts |
| 22:21.36 | AlexP | s/gevaerts/pedantic :) |
| 22:21.50 | AlexP | / |
| 22:21.52 | gevaerts | Are you seriously using the eurovision song contest as an argument in a discussion? |
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| 22:22.16 | gevaerts | is even more perplexed than he was! |
| 22:22.27 | loufoque | ajedwards: the immigrants in the UK are not from the EU |
| 22:22.36 | loufoque | they're from the Commonwealth |
| 22:22.40 | AlexP | loufoque: Yeah, I pointed that out too |
| 22:22.47 | gevaerts | "the immigrants"? |
| 22:22.59 | AlexP | gevaerts: A slightly unsavoury comment a little earlier |
| 22:23.03 | gevaerts | Surely there's more than one group of them? |
| 22:23.25 | gevaerts | Or are you generalising up to the point where any discussion becomes meaningless? |
| 22:24.16 | ajedwards | loufoque, the polish all come from europe ;) |
| 22:24.55 | bobbens | without the polish we wouldn't have control theory jokes |
| 22:24.58 | bobbens | they are fundamental! |
| 22:25.01 | loufoque | the UK doesn't have that many polish people, at least it's not really different from the rest of western europe |
| 22:25.25 | loufoque | but there are a lot of people of indian or pakistani origin that you won't find anywhere else in europe |
| 22:25.38 | bobbens | largest pakistani colony in europe afaik is in barcelona :) |
| 22:25.41 | ajedwards | loufoque, why britain though? what on earth do we have to offer? |
| 22:25.49 | ajedwards | i don't understand that |
| 22:26.44 | AlexP | I joined in initially to defend a couple of silly statements, I don't want any part of this conversation |
| 22:26.47 | AlexP | night all |
| 22:26.48 | kakazza | "what on earth do we have to offer?" <== I chuckled. Bad choice of words, eh? ;) |
| 22:27.09 | loufoque | ajedwards: hint: it might have something to do with India being a former British colony |
| 22:27.27 | ajedwards | loufoque, they gained their independence by choice - and wanted it |
| 22:27.45 | ajedwards | 1947 infact |
| 22:28.30 | ajedwards | i guess i'm just confused |
| 22:28.55 | loufoque | ask a history teacher to explain it to you I guess |
| 22:34.02 | ajedwards | best indian sweets ever: barfi |
| 22:35.10 | loufoque | worst singer twins ever: jedwards |
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| 22:35.39 | ajedwards | you're not the first person that's tried to imply my nick has something to do with them |
| 22:35.44 | loufoque | of twin singers rather |
| 22:35.48 | loufoque | s/of/or |
| 22:35.50 | ajedwards | fortunately i've been registered on freenode for about 5 years :p |
| 22:36.19 | loufoque | I'm sure jedwards existed before that |
| 22:38.38 | ajedwards | who's paying those guys anyway? |
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| 23:09.04 | pvaibhav | ajedwards: loufoque, why britain though? what on earth do we have to offer? <== you speak English, that's why. that's probably the only reason indians/pakistanis prefer UK over other european countries |
| 23:09.38 | ajedwards | that's fair |
| 23:09.40 | pvaibhav | also, barfi sucks. too sweet. :P try gulabjamun or rasmalai |
| 23:09.48 | ajedwards | rasmali is in a sauce right? |
| 23:10.26 | pvaibhav | kind of, yep |
| 23:10.36 | ajedwards | gulabjamun is sticky, i think? |
| 23:11.07 | ajedwards | i have tried it when i lived in Stoke |
| 23:11.09 | pvaibhav | no but it's dipped in sugar syrup! (but isn't as sweet as barfi. i cant handle that, it's practically a bar of sugar and flour) |
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| 23:11.30 | ajedwards | i had barfi about 2 months ago and really enjoyed it |
| 23:11.50 | ajedwards | rare to find it on indian menus here |
| 23:12.04 | pvaibhav | yeah my sister likes that too. individual tastes i guess |
| 23:12.49 | pvaibhav | many indian restaurants have such wannabe typical "indian" menus |
| 23:13.01 | ajedwards | i know a good one |
| 23:13.14 | ajedwards | but my favourite dish is honestly madras balti style |
| 23:13.29 | ajedwards | very basic i'm sure ;) |
| 23:13.31 | pvaibhav | went to an indian place in germany, was delighted to see kingfisher beer on the menu. turns out it's some "Namasté indian beer" i had never heard of. passed on it |
| 23:13.54 | pvaibhav | namaste .. how stereotypical can it be |
| 23:14.53 | pvaibhav | madras balti is a interesting. i've never had it before but the interesting part is that people from madras / south india are 100% pure vegetarian |
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| 23:15.39 | ajedwards | the sauce is thicker i find with balti style... hotter too |
| 23:15.58 | ajedwards | i like vindaloo, but the flavour is so much nicer in madras |
| 23:16.21 | ajedwards | vindaloo i heard was a portuguese origin, not sure how true that is? |
| 23:16.22 | pvaibhav | balti is a north indian word even (from what i know) :P |
| 23:16.33 | pvaibhav | i dont know what vindaloo is |
| 23:17.03 | ajedwards | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vindaloo |
| 23:17.11 | pvaibhav | ok, wiki says it's a Goan dish. diametrically opposite to where i'm from so... |
| 23:17.40 | pvaibhav | sounds delicious |
| 23:18.09 | ajedwards | dupiaza (double onion?) is nice too |
| 23:18.19 | pvaibhav | oh yeah i like that one |
| 23:18.26 | pvaibhav | my dad's favorite |
| 23:18.45 | pvaibhav | (yes it means double onion) |
| 23:19.07 | pvaibhav | applies to a range of dishes, chicken dopyaza, paneer dopyaza etc |
| 23:19.42 | ajedwards | what is a "balti dish" is it the way it's prepared or? |
| 23:19.46 | pvaibhav | well you're from the UK, why am I describing this.. ;) you probably know more indian food than i do |
| 23:19.52 | pvaibhav | balti means bucket |
| 23:20.05 | ajedwards | really! i see |
| 23:20.06 | pvaibhav | it's served in a bucket i guess |
| 23:20.10 | ajedwards | haha |
| 23:20.35 | pvaibhav | my cooking skill ends with heating pizza so im not much help on its preparation methods |
| 23:21.15 | ajedwards | i can cook, but i can't cook indian food - it never tastes as good as take out |
| 23:22.28 | pvaibhav | home cooked indian food also tastes kinda different from restaurant food |
| 23:22.50 | ajedwards | do they use more ghee in restaurants in india too? |
| 23:23.11 | pvaibhav | varies a lot |
| 23:23.47 | pvaibhav | clients at expensive restaurants are typically more health conscious you know |
| 23:23.51 | pvaibhav | hehe |
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| 23:24.30 | ajedwards | my girlfriend wants a tandoor for the perfect naan breads... i'm half sure that's why we go out for indian food |
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| 23:25.05 | pvaibhav | tandoor at home? |
| 23:25.30 | ajedwards | yeah haha |
| 23:25.42 | ajedwards | i told her build me a new house and you can have one |
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| 23:25.52 | pvaibhav | i only ever have naan when we dine out! |
| 23:26.39 | ajedwards | anyway it's late, night pvaibhav - catch you later |
| 23:26.48 | pvaibhav | gnight |
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