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| 00:21.43 | fzzbt | i get "Invalid XSRF token: Token mismatch for user_id '-1'" when i try to send my enrollment proof. help? |
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| 00:22.04 | gsocbot | fzzbt: "xsrf" is a known error message. See http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-students-list/msg/95a614978d46aa3b for a workaround |
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| 05:54.38 | ankit_frenz | okay I had a long two hour argument with my friend over this....I think its better to ask it here..Can open source Software be sold for a fee?? |
| 05:55.35 | Marchael | rhel, not? |
| 05:55.46 | kblin | depends |
| 05:56.50 | aseem | ankit_frenz: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html |
| 05:57.08 | dfighter | aseem that's not valid for all open source software |
| 05:57.13 | dfighter | only those with gnu licenses |
| 05:57.19 | ankit_frenz | consider each and every file of the software is open source..and there is no other supporting stuff that can be charged like design etc |
| 05:57.39 | dfighter | ankit_frenz read the license |
| 05:57.40 | dfighter | or |
| 05:57.48 | dfighter | if you are the one who decides the license |
| 05:57.51 | dfighter | then no need to ask |
| 05:57.51 | dfighter | :D |
| 05:58.22 | aseem | dfighter: But that does answer the basic question, Open Source Softwares CAN be sold for a fee. |
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| 05:58.31 | dfighter | aseem no |
| 05:58.40 | dfighter | open source means you have access to the source |
| 05:58.46 | dfighter | it does NOT equal free software |
| 05:59.07 | kblin | depends again |
| 05:59.28 | aseem | the dude asked for open source software,not free software. |
| 05:59.30 | kblin | basically I can always ask for a copying fee |
| 05:59.48 | dfighter | aseem and that's my point |
| 06:00.08 | kblin | even with gnu software, I don't need to give sources to a random person |
| 06:00.18 | ankit_frenz | Doesnt open source means we can distribute it for free as well (obviosuly beside access to codes and other stuff)? |
| 06:00.19 | dfighter | and you only need to do so if you release it |
| 06:00.27 | dfighter | ankit_frenz no |
| 06:00.37 | aseem | ankit_frenz: lol no. |
| 06:00.59 | dfighter | ankit_frenz that is FOSS = Free AND open source software |
| 06:01.04 | dfighter | free as in freedom |
| 06:01.09 | ankit_frenz | Than someone must edit wikipedia at least :( |
| 06:01.20 | kblin | ankit_frenz: the problem is that everybody and his aunt uses these terms slightly different |
| 06:01.33 | dfighter | ankit_frenz why don't you just read the license as I suggested? |
| 06:01.34 | aseem | kblin: lol |
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| 06:01.41 | dfighter | it tells you exactly what you can and can't do |
| 06:01.57 | aseem | yes I agree with dfighter, read the license. |
| 06:02.34 | kblin | e.g. if stuff is under a CC-NC license, you can't sell it |
| 06:02.47 | kblin | but that'd cause people to argue it's non-free |
| 06:03.13 | dfighter | free for personal use :P |
| 06:03.17 | kblin | myself included |
| 06:03.23 | ankit_frenz | So open source can be a paid software as well..? |
| 06:03.30 | dfighter | ankit_frenz yes |
| 06:03.45 | kblin | ankit_frenz: yeah, just don't expect that to work very often :) |
| 06:04.09 | dfighter | ankit_frenz basically the open source business model builds on the services you provide with your software |
| 06:04.18 | dfighter | not selling copies of the software |
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| 06:04.50 | ankit_frenz | So as long as I allow users access to codes , I can charge any amount of fees for the same and it still will be called OSS ..cause user has the freedom to edit it? |
| 06:05.25 | dfighter | if you release the source |
| 06:05.26 | ankit_frenz | dfighter: Yes..I understand that..most charge for support etc..buts its better to know exact definition as well :) |
| 06:05.27 | dfighter | it's open source |
| 06:05.33 | kblin | depends on the exact license terms, this could also be shared source |
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| 06:05.53 | kblin | microsoft allows customers access to the source code, doesn't mean windows is open source |
| 06:05.55 | ankit_frenz | is confused |
| 06:06.00 | dfighter | oh |
| 06:06.16 | dfighter | don't they just allow parts? |
| 06:06.18 | aseem | kblin: MS does ? |
| 06:06.22 | dfighter | because of interoperability |
| 06:06.28 | dfighter | and not to the general public |
| 06:06.30 | dfighter | only partners |
| 06:06.32 | dfighter | ? |
| 06:06.36 | kblin | aseem: if you're a big enough customer, sure |
| 06:06.47 | kblin | or rather, if you had over enough cash |
| 06:06.58 | kblin | and probably sign an NDA |
| 06:07.13 | dfighter | kblin but that's a very special case |
| 06:07.20 | DarthGandalf | And give them their soul. |
| 06:07.21 | aseem | kblin: Ah! Well then that's just a different case, isn't it ? |
| 06:07.30 | ankit_frenz | DarthGandalf: lol |
| 06:07.43 | aseem | DarthGandalf: true that. |
| 06:07.44 | ankit_frenz | So what exactly classifies a software as open source? |
| 06:07.46 | kblin | just saying that "access to the source" doesn't mean it's open source |
| 06:07.55 | kblin | ankit_frenz: check out the OSI definition |
| 06:08.12 | kblin | that's the one most people can agree on |
| 06:08.33 | kblin | OSI as in open source initiative, not that network protocol layers stuff |
| 06:08.35 | ankit_frenz | yeah I read that |
| 06:08.39 | ankit_frenz | It says |
| 06:08.40 | ankit_frenz | The program must include source code, and must allow distribution in source code as well as compiled form. |
| 06:09.11 | kblin | so it doesn't say "must be distributed for free" |
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| 06:09.54 | kblin | the thing is that with an open source license, I can't stop the person who gave me money to give her the software from now redistributing it for free |
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| 06:10.01 | DarthGandalf | If I pay MS 10000000000000000000000000000000000000$, I'm sure they'll allow distributing source ;) |
| 06:10.30 | kblin | so as I said, don't expect getting money for open source software very often |
| 06:11.25 | ankit_frenz | DarthGandalf: Dont be so sure about it.. :) may be they will give you an abolote ..buggy copy :P |
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| 06:11.42 | kblin | DarthGandalf: and probably cause a world economy breakdown |
| 06:12.57 | kblin | ankit_frenz: a good example for people selling open source software is the windows version of xchat |
| 06:12.57 | DarthGandalf | Well, it's already down, so no much harm :) |
| 06:13.14 | kblin | the original author charges money for the hassle to build windows binaries |
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| 06:13.33 | ankit_frenz | kblin: Can you explain this "The license shall not require a royalty or other fee for such sale." |
| 06:13.39 | ankit_frenz | http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd |
| 06:14.08 | kblin | nothing stops other people from providing free (as in beer) binaries |
| 06:14.23 | kblin | apart from the hassle of building stuff on windows :) |
| 06:15.58 | kblin | ankit_frenz: if you give me the sources, and I then proceed to sell the software, the license can't force me to give you part of my income |
| 06:17.06 | ankit_frenz | :O |
| 06:17.44 | ankit_frenz | So that means I can sell my version of Linux and has no liability towards the orginal authers ..right? |
| 06:18.06 | valorie | depends on the licences |
| 06:18.10 | valorie | always |
| 06:18.48 | kblin | ankit_frenz: the thing is always that you need to find someone to buy it :) |
| 06:19.01 | ankit_frenz | kblin: yes obviously :P |
| 06:19.14 | ankit_frenz | kblin: I can always sell to you :P |
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| 06:20.15 | DarthGandalf | Redhat does exactly that, doesn't it? |
| 06:20.35 | kblin | not quite |
| 06:21.04 | kblin | iirc they ship additional closed source software and you pay for support contracts |
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| 08:16.46 | *** topic/#gsoc is Welcome to Google Summer of Code 2011! Accepted student proposals announced at 19:00 UTC on the 25th. Please read the FAQs - http://goo.gl/Up2Qf and the Timeline - http://goo.gl/0lYPz for more info. |
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| 09:27.59 | blacktooth | !countdown |
| 09:28.00 | gsocbot | blacktooth: "countdown" is For a countdown for student announcement see http://goo.gl/JPGx3 |
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| 09:29.27 | blacktooth | !numapps |
| 09:29.27 | gsocbot | blacktooth: "numapps" is 417 mentoring orgs applied and 175 were accepted this year; 5474 proposals were submitted by 3731 students, and 1116 were accepted. In 2010, 367 mentoring orgs applied and 151 were accepted; 5539 proposals were submitted by 3464 students, and 1026 were accepted. |
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| 09:38.20 | haseeb | gsocbot: what??? gsoc? |
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| 11:09.45 | nbprashanth | is away: I'm busy |
| 11:09.58 | nbprashanth | is back (gone 00:00:02) |
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| 11:10.18 | nbprashanth | is away: I'm busy |
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| 11:13.08 | thiago_home | nbprashanth: would be nice if you turned the notification off |
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| 12:17.14 | rqkss | I've got some tax and enrollment things on my dashboard. When is the deadline to fill them up ? where can I read more info about them.. ? |
| 12:18.13 | v-kerozcak | in the mail you've got on gsoc list |
| 12:18.59 | rqkss | ok I'll read there.. What about the deadlines? I'm I late.. do I still have time? Thanks! |
| 12:19.36 | v-kerozcak | it's all in the mail, really |
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| 12:23.39 | rqkss | v-kerozcak: so If I read right the deadline is 20th of May? |
| 12:24.54 | v-kerozcak | it is, if you read right |
| 12:25.12 | lolfrenz | if you read wrong, you can always reread |
| 12:25.24 | lolfrenz | 20 looks a lot like 50 |
| 12:25.28 | lolfrenz | so be careful there |
| 12:25.46 | rqkss | thanks for making fun of me, I was just trying to double-check |
| 12:25.49 | rqkss | have a good day |
| 12:26.01 | lolfrenz | your browser does not allow you to check a website twice? |
| 12:26.09 | lolfrenz | otherwise I don't see why double-checking should involve irc |
| 12:26.32 | lolfrenz | maybe you should ask on the student's mailing list |
| 12:26.38 | aghisla | it's not to be annoying, just that the information here is not as reliable as a mail from official student list |
| 12:27.15 | lolfrenz | your argument for asking here is that the information here is not reliable? |
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| 12:28.59 | aghisla | lolfrenz: was it meant to me? :) |
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| 12:29.13 | lolfrenz | oh, nvm, you're different people |
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| 17:22.55 | patrunjel | hi everyone :) |
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| 17:24.04 | patrunjel | I am kind of a rookie C++ programmer, and have some knowledge on algorithms, can I participate in soc? :) I mean, can I actually help, or I would be just annoying? |
| 17:24.41 | DarthGandalf | !eligible |
| 17:24.41 | gsocbot | DarthGandalf: "eligible" is Follow this handy flowchart to see if you are eligible http://goo.gl/kvCSv (text version at http://goo.gl/ImfNT) |
| 17:24.46 | DarthGandalf | patrunjel: ^^ |
| 17:25.01 | gevaerts | !goodenough | patrunjel |
| 17:25.02 | gsocbot | patrunjel: "goodenough" is Am I good enough to be a student for GSoC? http://www.booki.cc/gsocstudentguide/_v/1.0/am-i-good-enough/ |
| 17:25.15 | DarthGandalf | Yeah, or that. |
| 17:26.04 | patrunjel | jezus, I fail on the first question, i'm born in 1994 :)) |
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| 17:26.59 | patrunjel | oh, you get paid for participating in soc? :)) |
| 17:27.17 | gevaerts | recommends reading up on gsoc first |
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| 17:28.12 | sri13 | Hi all, I had a doubt about completing "School name selected from autocomplete" option in todo list |
| 17:28.31 | sri13 | My college name in not appearing in the list |
| 17:28.38 | sri13 | Is it okay ? |
| 17:28.45 | yeskarthik | sri13, that is okay. |
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| 17:29.11 | sri13 | why it is not present ? Do you know any reason ? |
| 17:29.51 | yeskarthik | sri13, probably you're the first from your school |
| 17:30.02 | sri13 | yaaaa, its right |
| 17:30.13 | gevaerts | I'd say it's because it's not easy to compile a comprehensive global list of post-secundary schools :) |
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| 17:33.12 | abhinav- | I don't think being first from the school is a reason. |
| 17:34.36 | sri13 | abhinav-: Then wha's the reason you think ? |
| 17:36.09 | abhinav- | sri13, I don't know. may be they outsourced the work of collecting school names to a 3rd party agency and they couldn't do it completely ? actually I am also Ist from my school but my school is listed |
| 17:36.53 | akashm1990 | sri13: abhinav-The list is outsourced.. Even Microsoft uses the same list |
| 17:37.27 | akashm1990 | And, previous participation is not necessary for your college to appear on it |
| 17:37.34 | abhinav- | yes, that's what I said |
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| 17:40.50 | sri13 | then whats the criteria for getting a place in the list ? |
| 17:41.06 | gevaerts | maintains that he got it right |
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| 22:03.54 | PC | hello googlers |
| 22:04.38 | redheadphones | !numapps |
| 22:04.39 | gsocbot | redheadphones: "numapps" is 417 mentoring orgs applied and 175 were accepted this year; 5474 proposals were submitted by 3731 students, and 1116 were accepted. In 2010, 367 mentoring orgs applied and 151 were accepted; 5539 proposals were submitted by 3464 students, and 1026 were accepted. |
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| 23:44.18 | fnookie | hello. |
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