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| 01:01.56 | agliodbs | !next |
| 01:01.59 | gsocbot | agliodbs: "next" is July 11th - Mentors and students can begin submitting mid-term evaluations. July 15th - Mid-term evaluations deadline |
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| 06:09.50 | kblin | !timeline |
| 06:09.51 | gsocbot | kblin: "timeline" is http://goo.gl/PFsjs |
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| 07:52.48 | sherjilozair | Hi guys |
| 07:53.19 | sherjilozair | anyone active ? |
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| 07:54.49 | thiago | no |
| 07:55.36 | pygi | :D |
| 07:57.31 | kai | sighs and gets more coffee |
| 07:57.31 | sherjilozair | haha |
| 07:57.40 | kai | stupid race condition |
| 07:58.01 | sherjilozair | so won't carol give us all a google+ account ? |
| 07:58.29 | kai | !googleplus | sherjilozair |
| 07:58.29 | gsocbot | sherjilozair: "googleplus" is Google+ has nothing whatsoever to do with GSoC. We are volunteers from open source projects, not social media nodes |
| 07:58.30 | jrabbit | :) |
| 07:58.31 | sherjilozair | Its embarassing to see non-gsocers have a g+ acoount before I do. |
| 07:58.46 | jrabbit | What if I want to be a social media node |
| 07:58.48 | kai | also.. |
| 07:58.51 | kai | !when | sherjilozair |
| 07:58.51 | gsocbot | sherjilozair: "when" is later |
| 07:59.00 | kai | and possibly |
| 07:59.05 | kai | !patience | sherjilozair |
| 07:59.06 | gsocbot | sherjilozair: "patience" is very important for GSoC/GCI. Relax and go code something useful. |
| 07:59.19 | kai | gives gsocbot a cookie |
| 07:59.31 | jrabbit | !botsnack |
| 07:59.39 | jrabbit | no botsnack, too bad |
| 08:00.28 | sherjilozair | yeah. very elaborate. :| |
| 08:00.43 | kai | !learn botsnack as tasty |
| 08:00.43 | gsocbot | kai: "botsnack" is tasty |
| 08:01.01 | sherjilozair | I think I'd give you that advise :P |
| 08:01.08 | sherjilozair | !patience | kai |
| 08:01.09 | gsocbot | kai: "patience" is very important for GSoC/GCI. Relax and go code something useful. |
| 08:01.25 | kai | ? |
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| 08:01.33 | kai | I'm coding something useful |
| 08:01.57 | kai | or rather, I'm debugging something useful that I coded earlier |
| 08:02.10 | jrabbit | isn't doing anything useful at all |
| 08:02.11 | sherjilozair | well, even I'm :) |
| 08:02.18 | sherjilozair | :P |
| 08:02.55 | sherjilozair | anyway, does anyone here have a g+ account ? |
| 08:05.39 | vh4x0r | sherjilozair: I got one :p |
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| 08:07.51 | thebolt | kai: one could question if it is "useful" to debug.. preferably it is something you shouldn't have to do ;) |
| 08:08.54 | kai | thebolt: but it's a race condition that makes two workers run the same job twice, so if I fix it, I'll increase productivity ;) |
| 08:09.10 | sherjilozair | vh4x0r: Can you invite me ? |
| 08:09.26 | sherjilozair | by sharing something with my email ID. |
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| 12:57.34 | weltall | any idea when the midterm evaluation forms will be available? |
| 13:04.03 | MatthewWilkes | !next |
| 13:04.04 | gsocbot | MatthewWilkes: "next" is July 11th - Mentors and students can begin submitting mid-term evaluations. July 15th - Mid-term evaluations deadline |
| 13:04.49 | MatthewWilkes | tries to work out what welterde would mean |
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| 13:05.55 | RlyDontKnow | whether there's some sort of template for those evaluations and if there is when it'll be available |
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| 16:43.29 | nemo | koda: ah. you were talking to them here? |
| 16:43.43 | koda | not really |
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| 16:45.08 | koda | i talked about our problem here before sending the warning email |
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| 16:50.37 | nemo | koda: the first e-mail or that latest one? |
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| 16:51.44 | gsathya | !logs |
| 16:51.44 | gsocbot | gsathya: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
| 16:52.30 | koda | latest |
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| 16:55.56 | nemo | koda: At least we know one more question to ask - "Are you about to start a really stressful job immediately after qualifying?" :) |
| 16:56.53 | koda | :D |
| 16:57.09 | koda | are you going to stab us in the back after slot assignment? |
| 16:57.17 | nemo | aw |
| 16:57.30 | nemo | trying hard not to feel bitter :) |
| 16:57.39 | nemo | ok. too bitter. |
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| 16:58.05 | gevaerts | nemo: you don't ask that already? |
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| 16:58.29 | nemo | gevaerts: was our first year. we asked about time availability and such |
| 16:58.40 | nemo | gevaerts: and he spent a lot of time with us *before* it started |
| 16:58.50 | nemo | gevaerts: but literally like the day of the announcement of awards |
| 16:59.05 | gevaerts | nemo: you can't always avoid it anyway |
| 16:59.08 | nemo | he was like "oh yeah, other piece of good news. I got accepted at this awesome job, and will start in two weeks" |
| 16:59.23 | nemo | or "one week" |
| 16:59.25 | nemo | something like that |
| 16:59.27 | gevaerts | nice... |
| 16:59.29 | nemo | and then *poof* |
| 16:59.39 | nemo | I'm sure he had good intentions... |
| 16:59.47 | nemo | but we had like *3* excellent candidates for that idea alone |
| 16:59.49 | nemo | much less that slot |
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| 16:59.57 | nemo | it was almost a coin flip |
| 17:00.26 | gevaerts | We tend to ask if they applied to other things, and what they plan to do if they're accepted in multiple places. That doesn't help if people aren't entirely honest of course |
| 17:00.39 | nemo | gevaerts: oh. that's gsoc |
| 17:00.56 | nemo | gevaerts: we knew he was working fulltime, but he'd shown high availability |
| 17:01.11 | nemo | he just switched from a gov't job to working for a gaming company as a programmer. |
| 17:01.21 | nemo | it may have been a shock to him too |
| 17:01.30 | nemo | going from having tons of free time to 10h days |
| 17:01.54 | nemo | still. I thought gaming companies were notorious for that :) |
| 17:01.58 | kblin | wait, what? he's a student and a full time developer? |
| 17:02.14 | chrisoelmueller | I guess I know who you talk about, then :) |
| 17:02.19 | nemo | chrisoelmueller: ack |
| 17:02.28 | nemo | hm. I didn't mention my project |
| 17:02.36 | nemo | didn't think I was telling tales |
| 17:02.37 | chrisoelmueller | no, but he also applied to us |
| 17:03.09 | kblin | nemo: arguably if he applied for another job without telling you, you didn't miss much |
| 17:03.11 | nemo | huh. and you guys apparently showed better judgement than we did :( |
| 17:03.22 | nemo | kblin: well. what we missed was his slot |
| 17:03.24 | kblin | nemo: can't win everything |
| 17:03.25 | nemo | we only had 2 slots |
| 17:03.53 | chrisoelmueller | we just won the coin toss, so to speak |
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| 17:03.53 | chrisoelmueller | can't foresee everything indeed |
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| 17:03.53 | kblin | wait, he told you immediately that he had a job? |
| 17:03.58 | nemo | kblin: sure. |
| 17:04.07 | nemo | kblin: it was on his résumé |
| 17:04.17 | nemo | kblin: but he was on IRC almost all the time, and submitted code samples. |
| 17:04.25 | nemo | didn't seem like he had any trouble being responsive |
| 17:04.44 | nemo | kblin: I think if he'd stayed at the old job, would have been fine |
| 17:04.46 | kblin | hm, it's easier to keep _that_ up for a week or two that for three months |
| 17:04.58 | nemo | kblin: mm. was more like a few weeks |
| 17:05.02 | kblin | but of course it's hard to give a general answer |
| 17:05.03 | nemo | but his behaviour after was like night and day |
| 17:05.25 | dberkholz | we don't let people with other jobs do gsoc too |
| 17:05.30 | nemo | ah... |
| 17:05.36 | kblin | but so far almost all the students I ever had to ditch were trying to juggle another job and gsoc |
| 17:05.37 | nemo | dberkholz: so they have to be fulltime students? |
| 17:05.41 | dberkholz | it's supposed to be a full-time job in its own right |
| 17:05.52 | nemo | dberkholz: well now... |
| 17:05.58 | nemo | dberkholz: I was thinking of it as more a 20h a week job |
| 17:06.04 | kblin | nope |
| 17:06.06 | nemo | you really would expect 40h weeks from your students? |
| 17:06.09 | kblin | yes |
| 17:06.12 | nemo | huh... |
| 17:06.13 | nemo | ok. |
| 17:06.21 | nemo | does the math |
| 17:06.23 | kblin | It's in the FAQ I think |
| 17:06.25 | dberkholz | well, let's say even 35 (since that's considered full-time in some places) |
| 17:06.26 | kblin | !faq |
| 17:06.26 | gsocbot | kblin: "faq" is http://goo.gl/Up2Qf |
| 17:06.34 | nemo | 480 hours |
| 17:06.44 | nemo | $10/h or so |
| 17:06.45 | nemo | nice |
| 17:07.16 | Catfish_Man | people keep thinking gsoc pays well, it really doesn't, if looked at as a job |
| 17:07.32 | Catfish_Man | the value is in the experience and the contacts, and to a certain extent the prestige |
| 17:07.32 | nemo | huh. well. other guy has been quite productive. but at least I don't have to feel guilty about demanding more if it comes to it :) |
| 17:08.04 | dberkholz | nemo: well, the whole motto is flip bits not burgers. how much do you think mcdonalds pays? |
| 17:08.11 | nemo | more than that ;) |
| 17:08.27 | Catfish_Man | not around here |
| 17:08.29 | kblin | nemo: if I worked at the university as a student, I'd get less |
| 17:08.45 | kblin | anyway, the faq just states http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2011/faqs#time_student |
| 17:09.06 | kblin | but still the general consensus is that 35/40 h a week is reasonable |
| 17:09.09 | nemo | primary focus is a bit different from "full-time job" |
| 17:09.11 | nemo | but. good to know. |
| 17:09.35 | kblin | well, 20h/week is like half-time, so not "primary focus" |
| 17:10.05 | Catfish_Man | kblin: eh, for most unemployed people half time would still be primary focus |
| 17:10.19 | nemo | nods |
| 17:10.28 | gevaerts | Catfish_Man: not for unemployed astronomers |
| 17:10.35 | nemo | I had a 20h a week summer job in college |
| 17:10.46 | nemo | and it was definitely my main focus that summer |
| 17:10.49 | kblin | Catfish_Man: I was waiting for someone to come up with "if I do two 10/h week jobs and one 20h/week job, the 20h/week is primary focus" |
| 17:10.54 | nemo | well. it was 20-30 |
| 17:11.48 | nemo | kblin: working at university definitely earns less for sure |
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| 17:11.56 | nemo | kblin: was why all my college jobs were off-campus :) |
| 17:12.19 | kblin | nemo: actually, as a phd student, if I count the time I'm actually working instead of what my contract pays me, and I count my after-tax income, gsoc pays better than my job |
| 17:12.56 | nemo | kblin: well. phd students. don't doctorates joke about abusing their services? |
| 17:13.01 | dberkholz | even if i just count raw salaries, it probably paid similar to what i got in grad school |
| 17:13.09 | gevaerts | Anyway, I don't think the exact number of hours matters much, but I also don't think gsoc *can* be your primary focus if you have a full time job elsewhere |
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| 17:13.25 | kblin | right |
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| 17:13.30 | dberkholz | 5000 * (52/12) = 21667 |
| 17:14.01 | kblin | as I was saying, all the students I had to kick out so far but one had a job in addition to gsoc |
| 17:14.03 | nemo | kblin: anyway. he might have been BSing, but did claim he'd done more aggressive loads in the past |
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| 17:14.26 | nemo | kblin: on his proposal |
| 17:14.32 | kblin | right... |
| 17:15.07 | nemo | ok. so... moral is. we should have instantly eliminated based on that, eh. |
| 17:15.20 | kblin | yeah, next time you'll know |
| 17:15.45 | kblin | just spend more time with your other student and try to turn him into a contributor |
| 17:15.53 | nemo | kblin: oh. he's awesome |
| 17:16.02 | kblin | a 50% turnaround on contributors would be pretty impressive |
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| 17:58.02 | dberkholz | kblin: indeed, it is pretty nice |
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