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03:59.30thgilHi all
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07:46.07sourabh0612!app-nums
07:46.14sourabh0612!app-numbers
07:47.01ojwb!num-apps | sourabh0612
07:47.07ojwb!numapps | sourabh0612
07:47.08gsocbotsourabh0612: "numapps" is In 2012, 180 of 406 mentoring orgs were accepted; 4258 students submitted 6685 proposals. In 2011, 175 of 417 orgs were accepted; 3731 students submitted 5474 proposals, of which 1116 were accepted. In 2010, 151 of 367 orgs were accepted; 3464 students submitted 5539 proposals, and 1026 were accepted.
07:47.12ojwbcoughs
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07:47.22sourabh0612thanks ojwb
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07:49.38klocatelliwow that's a huge jump in proposals
07:49.40klocatelliand students
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07:50.38ojwbklocatelli: might just be more junk
07:51.28klocatellipossibly, I guess we'll see in about a week with the 2012 accepted proposals number
07:52.03ojwbi suspect that number is pretty much decided in advance
07:52.17klocatellioh yeah, true...
07:52.19ojwbsince they'll need to get a budget agreed
07:52.31klocatelliaren't you part of an org?
07:52.52ojwbyes, but I don't have any magic knowledge of how many student places there will be
07:53.12ojwbI can tell you it's more than 80 I think
07:53.40ojwbthe total number of slots for orgs I know about is around that
07:54.03klocatellino I know that, I was just wondering if your org in particular noticed any change in the crap:gold ratio compared to previous years
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07:54.34ojwbhttp://survex.com/~olly/blog/xapian/xapian-gsoc-applications-for-2012.html
07:54.56ojwbI'd say slightly less gold, but what there is is a little shinier
07:55.28ojwbthat's actually off by one - I noticed one which I'd failed to mark as invalid after I posted that
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07:59.32kai"Chromium can't display the webpage because your computer isn't connected to the Internet."
07:59.35kaiaha
07:59.44|Kev|Comparatively, we've noticed significantly more decent applications this year than previous years.
07:59.45kaiI don't think so, Mr. Error Message
07:59.48|Kev|(And more gold)
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08:00.25kai|Kev|: interesting, I'd say the trend for us is sligtly worse than last year
08:00.34|Kev|Most orgs seem to have said that.
08:01.13kainot counting worldforge, where we're umbrellaing for one more org, so we saw more proposals overall, and good proposals for all orgs
08:01.24kaiso that's a bit hard to compare
08:01.43klocatelliojwb, it's interesting how that time graph varies between this year and last... a lot more last minute proposals
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08:02.01ojwbit's very variable between orgs too
08:02.25klocatelliI wonder what the trend is for acceptance : application time overall the orgs
08:02.26ojwbi posted a link to the spreadsheet on the mentor list and a few orgs have put up graphs
08:02.26pranjal710Is there anyway to know orgs response towards our proposal?
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08:02.40|Kev|pranjal710: Yes, check the list on teh 23rd.
08:03.03bretoniumI wonder how many last-minute proposals where accepted last year
08:03.05bretonium*were
08:03.51ojwbhttp://rtemsramblings.blogspot.co.nz/2012/04/rtems-gsoc-applications-for-2012.html is one
08:03.52kaibretonium: I've seen last minute proposals by people who were in contact with the org for weeks prior to gsoc
08:04.02ojwbsometimes it's been polished for weeks
08:04.17ojwbthe quality does tend to drop towards the deadline though
08:04.20kaihehe
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08:04.40kaitwo orgs that use "S" as their small logo for melange on the front page
08:05.16pranjal710Yes, I know about 23rd. But I was just thinking, if we could know the count of proposals on any project and the number of slots the org has..
08:05.17ojwband mono have a broken link...
08:05.26ojwbpranjal710: then you couldn't tell much at all
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08:06.11ojwbit isn't a random draw, it's the quality which matters
08:06.52pranjal710True.  :(
08:07.37pranjal710yeah its the quality, but atleast if  I get to know about my org
08:08.18pranjal710because no one will comment on my proposal relative others
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08:08.35pranjal710'and 23rd is quite far
08:09.06ojwbit seems scarily close when you have a pile of proposals to decide on
08:09.52pranjal710and very far when you have to wait for a result for something you have worked on
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08:11.23pranjal710Can I ask it  on my orgs IRC?? I think it wont be good
08:11.32klocatellijust chill out man :D the 23rd will come eventually (probably)
08:11.32pranjal710will it be?
08:11.56pranjal710probably :D
08:11.59klocatelliknowing won't affect the result so why worry? ;)
08:12.43|Kev|pranjal710: Asking if you're going to get accepted can only annoy them and hurt your chances, I would imagine.
08:12.43kaipranjal710: the orgs can't tell you either
08:12.52|Kev|They're not allowed to tell you anything.
08:13.01pranjal710ok
08:13.13kaithey don't know for certain until the list is public :)
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08:29.41EvilTosha-homehello all
08:29.50EvilTosha-homeis it normal, that i havent received any notifications from melange?
08:29.57EvilTosha-homeeven about registration
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08:31.28kaiEvilTosha-home: check your spam filter
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08:31.46EvilTosha-homekai: already done
08:32.03EvilTosha-homeand i also checked correctness of email adress
08:34.11ojwbi don't recall a notification about registering, but you should get one by default if someone comments on your proposal
08:34.30ojwbyou're signing in with your google account, so there's no email verification needed anyway
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08:35.25EvilTosha-homeand how about my own comment? should i get notification about that?
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08:37.01guifreI don't think so
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08:38.16EvilTosha-homeok, so if there was no comments, i shouldn't det any notifications?
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09:00.16kaiEvilTosha-home: right
09:00.31EvilTosha-homekai: thx
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09:11.04ojwbEvilTosha-home: if you think you've missed a comment notification. just check your proposal in melange and see if there are any comments on it
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11:01.03dreamerhi all, I'm a bit confused with the gsoc2012 page. on some part it says the registration-deadline has passed (april 6th), but the program timeline says that student applications are still running (with a 'proposal matched deadline' in 4 days)
11:01.35dreamerso, is it still possible to enroll or do I need to wait until next year? (at which point I'm possibly no longer eligible to enroll)
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11:02.09om_dreamer: it's too late for student applications, the deadline was April 6
11:02.51om_mentors can still apply I think, and the students will be chosen by friday/announced on next monday
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11:07.28dreamerom_: k. too bad. I never found the chance to participate and soon I'll no longer be a student -_-
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11:14.08ojwbdreamer: the timeline is saying that student applications are still being *processed* by orgs
11:14.45dreamerk, wish I had found out sooner -_-
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11:38.04hsris now playing: Tiesto - Adagio 4 Strings (Blezi Remix)
11:38.40hsr>_>
11:38.42hsr<_<
11:38.45hsr>_<
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11:44.22kaihsr: right, please keep scripts like that off in here
11:44.33kaiimagine the noise if everyone had those :)
11:44.47hsrsorry, was testing out one script
11:44.52hsrglobal was turned on
11:44.54hsr:(
11:45.07kaiyeah, no harm done yet.. :)
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13:05.38Tomkiewicz-1Hi, when will be done students verification (ie. university check)?
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13:06.08kaiTomkiewicz-1: after the students have been accepted
13:06.57Tomkiewicz-1That means: after proposal will be accepted by mentor organisation?
13:07.03|Kev|Yes.
13:07.08Tomkiewicz-1Thanks
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13:18.54kaiamazing how people a trying to pick a fight with chris on the mailing list
13:20.43ojwbdoes wonder if he's trying to troll
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13:22.03ojwbhe was posting from a gmail address too, so if you don't recognise the name you probably wouldn't guess he's with the OSPO
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13:22.54kaiojwb: apart from the signature
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13:23.04ojwboh, i failed to notice that
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13:23.34kaihappened to some other people, too, I'd say
13:23.54kaiI wonder if "Director of atypical intellectual property, Google Inc." is his official title
13:24.05kaithat probably looks awesome on a business car
13:24.06kaid
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13:25.28ojwbkai: ah, that's only on some of his messages to that thread
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13:26.12kaiit was on all emails I tried
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13:26.19kaijust need to scroll waaaaaaay down
13:26.36kaigmail made people forget how to properly edit email replies
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13:26.56ojwbi looked in gmail, since I get a second copy of all the list mail there
13:27.02ojwbperhaps it hid it from me
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13:27.49kaiI've looked at 5 of his posts, and all have the sig
13:28.11kaianyway, enjoyable thread
13:28.48kaiI for one will advocate a rule that only allows duels with mentors using non-battery powered nerf guns
13:29.19ojwblooking at the original text, yes, gmail is hiding it
13:29.34ojwbthe apparently 2 line mail is actually a zillion lines of top quote
13:30.35kaiyes
13:30.50kaias I said, gmail makes people suck at writing emails
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13:31.49|Kev|I manage to write emails perfectly well using gmail, thank you :p
13:32.22ojwbit's at least possible, which it doesn't really seem to be with outlook
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13:35.14kai|Kev|: right, but I'd say the numbers still support my conclusions
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13:51.06kaianyway, I'm all out of popcorn, so time to get back to work
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14:11.05ashwinravichandrAnyone here?
14:11.12downeyno one.
14:12.23|Kev|/names tells me there're 385 nicks in here. So probably no-one's here.
14:13.01aghislais not there
14:13.17|Kev|is not all there
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14:14.11MatthewWilkeshehe
14:14.54kaiI'll get some more coffee, then I'll try to figure out if I'm here
14:15.04hsrdidn't we have piping?
14:15.19hsr!anyone | ashwinravichandr
14:15.19gsocbotashwinravichandr: "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization themselves. Try searching for the org's contact info or even just try a /join #<mentoring org here>
14:15.34MatthewWilkes!this cookie | hsr
14:15.34gsocbothsr: "this cookie" is for you
14:15.41hsryay!
14:16.03JordiGHI'm only morally here.
14:16.19hsrtechnically, my bouncer is here
14:16.33MatthewWilkesTo steal |Kev|'s joke, I'm certainly not all here morally
14:16.34hsrand hsr's minion hamster is typing all this
14:17.12hsr!knock-knock
14:17.26hsrgsocbot should tell jokes too
14:17.29hsrbad bot
14:18.02dadkins!cookie | hsr
14:18.02gsocbothsr: "cookie" is omnomnom
14:18.12dadkinsyou get a cookie for a good suggestion :)
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14:18.19hsrso many cookies
14:18.30hsris *happy*
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14:24.18bretoniumscreen detached. Say what you want to say, delivery is guaranteed.
14:24.29bretoniumfrom somebody's status.
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14:25.18kaiunless one of the intertube pipes burst and the text flows out
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15:00.26*** topic/#gsoc is http://www.google-melange.com Google Summer of Code 2012 has started! Accepted organizations have been announced. You can check out the timeline: http://goo.gl/FQb2b and the FAQs: http://goo.gl/Lh4R8 for more information. | If your org was rejected and you want to find out why, email carols | The student submission period has ended, good luck to everyone who applied!
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15:36.22kaiI like how on a financial market news site, there's and ad against illiteracy
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16:16.09JordiGHIs there a link somewhere from a proposal to proposals submitted to my org(s)?
16:16.26JordiGHNavigation could be better... Hmm...
16:16.54JordiGHI'd submit a patch, but I don't want to agree to the Melange CLA because it uses the annoying term "intellectual property". :-/
16:18.07MatthewWilkesJordiGH: Wtf?
16:18.30MatthewWilkesJordiGH: it's a standard legal term used by most contributor agreements in some form or another
16:18.49JordiGHStandard or not, it's dumb, and I have never agreed to any agreement that uses it.
16:19.00MatthewWilkesJordiGH: Why?
16:19.01JordiGHIt means nothing.
16:19.07guifreyou must be form fsf
16:19.31MatthewWilkesJordiGH: For something that means nothing everyone else seems to understand exactly what it means
16:19.44JordiGHMatthewWilkes: No, they really don't. That's precisely the problem. Nobody really knows what it means.
16:19.49gevaertsthinks there are more problems with this CLA, such as it not allowing to submit patches that use code copied from elsewhere
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16:20.55JordiGHMatthewWilkes: People use the word without really knowing what it means nor what it implies. It's vague and describes nothing accurately, plus it perpetuates an image that "something" (intellect?) is owned.
16:21.03MatthewWilkesrolls his eyes
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16:21.36|Kev|Anything I own is intellectual property, 'cos I own it, and I'm an intellectual, like. Seems obvious to me guv.
16:21.41JordiGHMatthewWilkes: The recent ruling that code isn't physical property so it can't be stolen at least shatters some of the meanings of "intellectual property".
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16:22.25MatthewWilkesJordiGH: No it doesn't.
16:22.30MatthewWilkesstops feeding
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16:22.47JordiGHA minority opinion isn't a troll.
16:22.54JordiGHAt any rate, back to melange, does it have the kind of navigation I want?
16:23.18|Kev|I don't think so, but I'm sure patches are welcome.
16:23.23dadkinsdon't think so 00 i just use a separate tab for each proposal
16:23.24JordiGHNo, they're not. :-(
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16:24.02MatthewWilkesYeah, they are
16:24.05MatthewWilkesyou're just a troll
16:24.13MatthewWilkestrolls don't have the manual dexterity to patch
16:24.17MatthewWilkesbig hands
16:24.33JordiGHSigh, ad hominem.
16:25.15JordiGHI guess I'll just open a bunch of tabs.
16:25.47JordiGH|Kev|: but when you manipulate a proposal, you go back to the list of proposals. I end up hitting the back button and refreshing to see what I just did.
16:26.14MatthewWilkesad Beluae, surely
16:26.15|Kev|I open one tab per proposal when I'm doing stuff to many at once.
16:26.18ChrisOelmuelleri've seen a patch by jordi being rejected because of this, so i pretty much have to agree with him
16:26.22MatthewWilkes(to the troll)
16:26.49|Kev|ChrisOelmueller: Being rejected because he presses back on his browser?
16:27.02gevaertsdisagrees with MatthewWilkes
16:27.05ChrisOelmuellernah that would be outstanding even for melange
16:27.10ChrisOelmuellerhttp://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=1477 fwiw
16:27.10MatthewWilkesgevaerts: Your latin's probably better than mine
16:27.13JordiGH|Kev|: Yeah, I've been doiing the same.
16:27.33MatthewWilkesgevaerts: Patches welcome
16:28.14|Kev|ChrisOelmueller: This seems to getting a patch rejected because of not complying with project policy - which seems like a fine reason to reject a patch.
16:28.47gevaertsI'd say that anyone who marks a bug as wontfix because someone submits a one word patch without accompanying CLA deserves to get no contributions at all, ever
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16:30.06JordiGHAt least those notorious trolls, the FSF, only requires legalese for substantial contributions.
16:30.28JordiGHSo someone outwhackoed the FSF. :-)
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16:34.27qballer!time
16:34.27gsocbotqballer: "time" is has come, the walrus said, to speak of other things.
16:34.40JordiGHHaha.
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16:35.26dadkins!yes | qballer
16:35.26gsocbotqballer: "yes" is Here, have a cookie!
16:35.35qballerOf shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--
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16:36.01JordiGHAnd whether pigs have wings and why the sea is boiling hot.
16:36.35qballera loaf of bread, the walrus said
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16:56.18JordiGHHm, difficult to rank. Should it be by total score or by average score? :P
16:56.39JordiGHTotal score of course can be meaningless in general. 10 1-star rankings are obviously worse than 2 5-star rankings.
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17:08.39carolsserves some coffee
17:08.46carolshas some coffee and tries to wake up
17:08.54demosdemonwaves to carols
17:08.57demosdemonmorning
17:09.01demosdemonand coffee is good
17:09.17carolsmorning demosdemon
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17:14.51MatthewWilkescarols!
17:15.00carolsMatthewWilkes!
17:15.23MatthewWilkescarols: I forgot to ask, by the way, how was the triathlon?
17:15.30carolsMatthewWilkes: it was great.
17:15.38agliodbscarols: you were triathaloning?
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17:16.12carolsagliodbs: i was. in hawaii. i was raising money for the leukemia and lymphoma society on a friend of mine's behalf (who has cancer), and I did a triathlon two weeks ago for it.
17:17.04agliodbswow
17:17.24MatthewWilkescarols: Glad to hear it!
17:17.38carolsthanks for asking :-)
17:17.41carolsit was really good
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17:17.52carolsphotos of me crossing the finish line will be going out to my donors soon
17:17.52agliodbscarols: tanned now?
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17:20.28MatthewWilkescarols: Make sure to photoshop ridiculously photogenic guy into the background
17:20.40carolsMatthewWilkes: i'll be sure to do that.
17:20.46carolsagliodbs: nah, i wore sunscreen :-)
17:21.32|Kev|I find doing runs (rarely!) over here hard enough. Doing a triathlon in the sun sounds horrendous.
17:21.50MatthewWilkesI think I'd rather swim in hawaii than in the bristol channel, though
17:21.56|Kev|Well, yes.
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17:22.15MatthewWilkesI need a sit down just thinking about running, though
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17:22.45|Kev|I was starting again, ready for a half in October, until I knockered my knee/ankle a couple of months ago. Hoping to start again in a few weeks.
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17:24.18|Kev|I suspect I'll be starting from scratch and my half will involve walking, irritatingly.
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17:38.01sonney2kJordiGH, I finally managed to transfer 1 slot - now I hope for you that carols is trying hard to get it to you :)
17:38.13JordiGHsonney2k: Woohoo, thanks!
17:38.41carols:-)
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17:47.12qballerDoes GSoC admins also review the final proposal for orgs?
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17:47.52agliodbsqballer: depends on the organization
17:48.02qballermeaning?
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17:48.19agliodbsqballer: um, I don't know how to be more clear
17:48.44carolsqballer: what would you like to know?
17:48.55carolsdo you mean gsoc program admins or organization admins?
17:48.55qballerIt's clear.
17:48.59carolsok
17:49.01qballerprogram admin
17:49.09carolsno, i don't look at applications.
17:49.56qballerjust wondering. thanks. need to fast forward time some how...
17:50.57Catfish_Manqballer: make some code go faster. I find I can spend infinite amounts of time on that
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17:51.17|Kev|Is making time go faster premature optimisation?
17:51.40qballerYea, I'm debugging as we speak. tomorrow it will even be my code I will debug :)
17:51.57Catfish_Man|Kev|: worse, it's a regression. If time goes faster, everything takes more seconds to complete, since the things aren't going faster
17:51.58Catfish_Man;)
17:52.04|Kev|Heh.
17:52.20qballerYou guys are very silly (in a good way) today.
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18:13.11eggy_carols: Hey, the person from the Python software foundation has not admitted the mentors of my (and another student's) projects yet (no response), do you have any suggestions as to what we should do (other than keep trying to contact that person?)
18:13.28carolseggy_: you're referring to arc?
18:13.32eggy_carols: yes
18:13.53carolsand the problem is that you're looking for the pst to be an umbrella for your org?
18:14.09eggy_That's correct, it's the Cython project
18:14.22eggy_Last year two projects were allocated under the PSF
18:14.28carolsthat's entirely at their discretion, so i'm sorry, i can't help you with that.
18:14.33carolsso yes, you need to speak to arc
18:15.03eggy_Right, ok. The thing is that if they wouldn't allow us, we should probably have received a response :)
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18:15.22eggy_Arc: Hey, are you there?
18:15.25|Kev|eggy_: Are you the mentor or the student?
18:15.43eggy_|Kev|: I am the student, but I can refer you to the mentors by email if you want
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18:15.58eggy_There is another student with a proposal as well
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18:16.22|Kev|No, I was just going to say that I wouldn't necessarily send any note to a student applying with a proposal for a project not under our umbrella.
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18:17.50eggy_Right, but the mentors themselves have contacted Arc several times for the last couple of weeks
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18:17.57eggy_I just started today, since the deadline is closing in
18:18.18|Kev|Ignore me then.
18:18.33eggy_And out of courtesy one should always reply, and not ignore emails
18:19.30carolseggy_: speaking as someone who sends on the order of 200-300 emails a day, i can understand getting behind.
18:19.39carolsi don't think arc is ignoring you, i think this is just a busy time.
18:20.42eggy_carols: Yes, I sympathize completely, but I should make sure it is handled on time (they started signing up several weeks ago)
18:21.01carolsindeed.
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18:33.39kblincarols: hey there
18:33.46carolskblin: hey there
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18:35.16kblincarols: do you think we're going to need a queueing bot for the dedup meeting?
18:35.55carolskblin: maybe? i could just call on people when i need them.
18:36.00carolsOR we could queue them
18:36.10carolsi don't think it'll be that many people, though.
18:36.18|Kev|Given that more people will end up getting duped during the meeting, queuing seems liek it might not work well.
18:36.24|Kev|s/will/could/
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18:38.29kblinyeah, I think in the last years we did the whole mute channel/voice people thing manually
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18:41.39kblincarols: I might have to step in for Wine for the dedup meeting as well, if none of the Wine folks can make it on friday, I take that's not a problem from the google side, assuming I have a clue on their duplicated students and solutions for deduplications?
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18:41.55JordiGHWhat's this dedup thing? I don't really get it.
18:42.01JordiGHdox plz
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18:42.09carolskblin: as long as you have all agreed amongst yourself that the decisions you make are trusted with the rest of the org, then you're good
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18:42.33carolsJordiGH: you read my email, yes?
18:42.53JordiGHcarols: About the donated slot?
18:43.05kblinJordiGH: no, the longish but important one
18:43.07carolsJordiGH: about deduplication, slot allocations, etc.
18:43.15kblinbefore the entertaining flamewar started
18:43.27|Kev|Long before, to be fair.
18:43.28JordiGHAh, it's a flamethread? That'll make it easier to find.
18:43.41JordiGHFound it.
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18:44.38carolsgreat.
18:45.08kblinJordiGH: nono, the flame thread started after that
18:45.36JordiGH19 isn't so much of a flamethread.
18:45.45|Kev|19 isn't the flame thread.
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18:45.51JordiGHThe 79-and-counting flamethread in -mentors is much more of a flamethread. :-)
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18:46.01TriskeliosI assume kblin means the the stupidity about cultural imperialism and plagiarism?
18:46.03gevaertsthinks the flame thread was a bit derivative :)
18:46.32JordiGHETA 'till Godwin?
18:46.44kblinJordiGH: that's the one I meant
18:46.56JordiGHOr have we already achieved Godwinhood?
18:47.05kblinno, not quite
18:47.30JordiGHOkay, I'll peer at it later. Gotta understand this dedup thing right now.
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18:47.51gevaertsThat's been done before. Copying a thread ending idea from someone else would not be appropriate here
18:48.04|Kev|There's not much to understand. You turn up, if you have students you've accepted also accepted by another org, you decide which org they go to, and possibly select another instead.
18:48.09kblinyou could cite the law
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18:48.40JordiGHNo no.
18:48.45JordiGHIt's a common misconception of Godwin.
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18:49.21JordiGHGodwin is not a law in the sense of "this is what must be done". It's not a law that can be broken. It's an empirical observation. It simply states that it will eventually happen with high probability.
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18:50.03pokoko222oh boy D-Day is near :D
18:50.06JordiGHAs an empirical observation, it may be incorrect, of course, but so are Newton's laws of motion. The awareness of Godwin's law kinda breaks it, sadly.
18:50.13sfbMan. Is there somplace other than #melange to get help with Melange problems?
18:50.21gevaertsJordiGH: yes, but this wouldn't be the internet if people didn't misinterpret things
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18:50.48JordiGHgevaerts: Then we wouldn't have flamethreads! D:
18:51.38kblinof course then I can start another flame war about cultural imperialism because nazi comparisons are very much not approriate in my cultural background, and I feel like all the imperialists rub in their nazi-comparing culture right in my face ;)
18:51.42pokoko222I see my proposal is submitted but I am thinking of asking the mentor if he can see it and everything is ok
18:51.49gevaertsJordiGH: it's how we avoid high heating bills!
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18:51.52pokoko222i am panicing, what if it was not sent right and thoughts like that
18:51.55pokoko222blah
18:52.46JordiGHkblin: Does it get uncivil? I stopped reading after the 10th post or so.
18:52.57JordiGHDid tempers rise?
18:53.04JordiGHWere rash decisions made?
18:53.05Triskeliospokoko222: if you can see it on Melange, so can your mentor
18:53.27pokoko222Triskelios: yep it is there in "submited proposals"
18:53.50pokoko222anyways, do they send the t-shirt right away if you are accepted?
18:54.00pokoko222I want that t-shirt more than the money :D
18:54.14kblinpokoko222: nope, tshirt only after you pass the final eval
18:54.28pokoko222which was august?
18:54.32pokoko222oh boy...
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18:55.12pokoko222they send money right away and not t-shirt, man, google needs to rethink it's philosophy about things :D
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18:55.20dfighterfirst your proposal also needs to be accepted
18:55.22dfighter:P
18:55.27|Kev|19:54 < pokoko222> I want that t-shirt more than the money :D
18:55.31|Kev|No, I don't think they do.
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18:56.19ajedwardsthe t-shirt is awesome
18:56.21carolsi'm quite happy with the priorities in gsoc as it stands.
18:56.54pokoko222ajedwards: can I see it somewhere, the design... ?
18:57.06carolspokoko222: the design for what?
18:57.06kblinpokoko222: it's a big secret each year
18:57.11pokoko222oh :D
18:57.12ajedwardsgoogle it for previous ones :)
18:57.22kblinever since the design of the 2005 one leaked.. ;)
18:57.25pokoko222I know the previous year one, but they change it
18:57.42qballerTriskelios: you from ASF?
18:57.45gevaertsI would bet the current logo is somehow worked into it
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18:58.00Triskeliosqballer: nope, illumos
18:58.03pokoko222gevaerts: google's new logo?
18:58.04JordiGHSo, looks like plagiarism is this: http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_64.php
18:58.19gevaertspokoko222: the 2012 gsoc logo
18:58.21carolsi'm currently worried about slot allocations for orgs, i haven't thought about the tshirt yet.
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18:58.34|Kev|JordiGH: We really don't need that thread duplicated here.
18:58.55JordiGH|Kev|: I'll triplicate your ancestors.
18:59.14pokoko222gevaerts: what is that logo, the flags?
18:59.27gevaertsnods
18:59.35carolspokoko222: the one at the top of melange right now.
18:59.41carolsserves some tea
19:00.02pokoko222awesome :D
19:00.06gevaertsAh, good idea!
19:00.11gevaertsgets some tea
19:00.50pokoko222I thought only non-tea people come here
19:01.05meflinmmm tea
19:01.18gevaertsNon-tea people are welcome too
19:01.28pokoko222they are all infected now, run for your liveees
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19:01.48pokoko222anyways most of you guys here are mentors?
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19:01.55|Kev|Several are.
19:02.06pokoko222are there google people in here?
19:02.10|Kev|Yes, Carol.
19:02.12kblinsome
19:02.13pokoko222wow
19:02.21carolspokoko222: i'm neither a guy nor a mentor.
19:02.32kblinchris and cat come in here occasionally, too
19:02.33pokoko222carols: you work in google?
19:02.39carolspokoko222: indeed i do.
19:02.44pokoko222woooow :D
19:02.51pokoko222it is my dream job
19:02.54kblincarols is a full-time cat herder
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19:03.16kblinand I don't know many other people who'd consider that their dream job ;)
19:03.22ajedwardsbahaha
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19:03.49kblinglad carols does, of course. :)
19:03.53pokoko222kblin: the google job not the cat herder one :D
19:04.11|Kev|It's a variation on the Peter principle. Everyone is promoted to their own level of cat herdiness.
19:04.24kblinhehe
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19:04.27dfighterpokoko222 there are many different jobs at companies, would you like to be the toilet cleaning lady at Google?
19:04.39pokoko222I don't understand this cats and herds conversation :D
19:04.47|radiy|hi,guys
19:04.58kblinpokoko222: have you ever tried herding cats?
19:05.01pokoko222dfighter: nope, I want machine learning job in google
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19:05.06schumamldfighter: that's sanitation manager
19:05.08|radiy|who's a free now?
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19:05.15carols|radiy|: i'm free.
19:05.17pokoko222how did cats get in the conversation, blaah
19:05.18carolshow can i help?
19:05.22|Kev|pokoko222: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiom
19:05.26dfighterschumaml oh yea sorry, my PC was off a bit
19:05.28|Kev|No, not the right one.
19:05.38|Kev|pokoko222: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herding_cats
19:05.45|Kev|Although that's a bit rubbish.
19:06.05pokoko222oh those cats :D
19:06.27pokoko222carols: you do something AI related in google?
19:06.32carolspokoko222: nope.
19:06.33sfbcarols: Who do I talk to about a Melange problem? I can't seem to "wish to mentor" proposals.
19:06.47pokoko222carols: at what age did you get the job, after masters or Phd?
19:06.51carolssfb: code.google.com/soc or melange-soc-dev@googlegroups.com
19:07.06carolspokoko222: i have a bachelor's, and i started working here when i was 21.
19:07.09sfbSo skip the IRC channel and go straight to the Google Group?
19:07.15carolssfb: indeed
19:07.18pokoko222carols: no way 21 :D
19:07.22sfbOkay, good. Thank you!
19:07.26carolsyw :-)
19:07.41dfighterwonders who sfb wishes to mentor
19:07.51carolspokoko222: well, you're welcome to not believe me, but i have no reason to lie to you. doesn't really matter to me one way or the other though. but you asked.
19:07.54kblinsfb: oh, hang on
19:08.08kblinsfb: what proposals are you looking at?
19:08.11pokoko222carols: no I meant it is really cool, not that I don't believe
19:08.17carolscool
19:08.55dfighterpokoko222 you do realize that carols is not an engineer tho, right?
19:09.02pokoko222carols: just one last question and I won't bother you again, you applied with bachelors and I assume you presented to them some cool programming projects?
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19:09.11pokoko222dfighter: hmm what you mean
19:09.13carolspokoko222: no, i didn't.
19:09.21|Kev|dfighter: I think the conversation will be more amusing if you don't reveal that :)
19:09.31pokoko222haha what is carols then working on :D
19:09.36carolspokoko222: gsoc
19:09.46pokoko222well that is not a google job :D
19:09.49|Kev|pokoko222: Carol is Lady GSoC.
19:09.50kblinpokoko222: she's the lady running this show
19:09.57carolspokoko222: i beg to differ.
19:10.04dfighterlol
19:10.16kblinif that's not a google job, you have a very weird definition of "google job"
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19:10.28sfbkblin: OpenNMS proposals.
19:10.35carolskblin: i think google jobs are only those belonging to the engineers.
19:10.49pokoko222yeah I meant he works on some programming/engineering stuff
19:10.49kblinpersonally, I think anything that gives you an "@google.com" email address would qualify
19:10.50carolsor so it would seem.
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19:11.06carolspokoko222: me? i'm a she.
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19:11.09|Kev|pokoko222: Are you familiar with the first rule of holes?
19:11.19pokoko222carols: oh you are a girl?
19:11.23carols|Kev|: when you find yourself in one, stop digging.
19:11.24gevaertshands pokoko222 a spade
19:11.25pokoko222|Kev|: nope
19:11.32|Kev|pokoko222: ^
19:11.36carolspokoko222: indeed i am. not that it matters one way or the other to anything we're discussing.
19:11.48pokoko222ok I stop with this hole
19:11.50kblin|Kev|: you mean the "if you're in up to your neck, start digging"
19:12.00pokoko222hahaha
19:12.12gevaertskblin: a sensible idea!
19:12.26pokoko222first cats, then holes, guys you talk about wierd things in here :D
19:12.36kblingevaerts: well, there has to be an exit buried somewhere
19:12.43carolspokoko222: i could say the same about you saying i don't have a google job.
19:12.52sfbkblin: When I slide "Wish To Mentor" to 'Yes' it doesn't save it.
19:13.04gevaertspokoko222: both of those are fairly common idioms
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19:13.07pokoko222carols: well I meant you do programming, but you help out with gsoc administration ?
19:13.08kblinsfb: weird
19:13.14kblinsfb: did you hit "apply"?
19:13.23Triskeliospokoko222: she RUNS GSoC
19:13.24JordiGHIs it easy for me to see on which applications I've expressed interest in mentoring?
19:13.25carolspokoko222: help out? there's only one of me. i wish i had help :-P
19:13.26pokoko222gevaerts: yes but english is not my first so...
19:13.28|Kev|pokoko222: Carol *is* GSoC.
19:13.47|Kev|Actually, I take that back, it sounds a bit freaky.
19:13.59pokoko222we talk about Carol Smith?
19:14.05Triskeliospokoko222: Carol is the reason GSoC happens!
19:14.05carolspokoko222: yours truly.
19:14.21schumaml|Kev|: GladOS is Carol, too
19:14.35kblinTriskelios: "GSoC happens" sounds like a bumper sticker
19:14.38pokoko222carols: I appologize for being dumb then :D
19:14.41JordiGHCarolOS
19:14.46pokoko222wow Carol Smith is here who would say...
19:14.48carolspokoko222: it's fine.
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19:14.57pokoko222carols: you won't beat me now?
19:14.59carolshappens all the time, actually.
19:15.18JordiGHo.Ô
19:15.22carolspokoko222: beat you?let's keep this on topic, can we?
19:15.23JordiGHBeating happens all the time Ô.o
19:15.26JordiGH?
19:15.32klocatellilol
19:15.35JordiGHlol
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19:15.37kblinpokoko222: Personally I think carols is one of the most patient people in here
19:15.46schumamlwill add questions like "Who is running GSoC?" to the next application template
19:15.50pokoko222kblin: yeah I would have kicked myself too by now
19:16.13Triskeliosschumaml: hahaha
19:16.14kblinnah, we rarely have to kick people in here
19:16.37kblinmost of the time it's enough to just talk to them
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19:17.13pokoko222well anyways I am watching carols video on youtube
19:17.22kblinbesides, I'm afraid carols is pretty used to people not realizing that there are indeed women on the internet
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19:17.48sfbkblin: There is no "apply" just "assign"
19:18.00kblindoes that do anything? :)
19:18.11JordiGHOh, that's what's getting unduplicated.
19:18.17JordiGHDuplicate acceptances.
19:18.18kblinJordiGH: internets?
19:18.23kblinoh, that
19:18.31sfbkblin: Nope. It does nothing...
19:18.33JordiGHThere must be a better word than "deduplicate"...
19:18.50gevaertsJordiGH: "simplify"? :)
19:18.55JordiGHSingularise? Resolve conflicts?
19:19.01kblinJordiGH: supercallifragilisticexpiallydocious?
19:19.08JordiGHWhat a wonderful word.
19:19.08sfbJordiGH: Remove-Duplicates.
19:19.13|Kev|Sbwriel.
19:19.15sfbJordiGH: It has a hyphen. It's still one word.
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19:20.10kblinI'm not convinced "singularise" is any less confusing than "deduplicate"
19:20.47JordiGHConsolidate?
19:21.01kblinbut you don't consolidate slots
19:21.22kblinyou drop a student to remove a duplicate acceptance
19:21.28JordiGHYou don't deduplicate slots either.
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19:21.38JordiGHYou deduplicate... eh... something...
19:21.44kblinjust to find out that the next student also is accepted by two orgs
19:22.04kblinand then you repeat the process until you're all out of students
19:22.06JordiGHApparently people used to have a problem with "disambiguate" too, as popularised by Wikipedia.
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19:22.15kblinuh, wait..
19:22.22kblinuntil you're all out of duplicates
19:22.30kblinone of these in any case
19:22.33JordiGHDupesmash.
19:22.58kblinsounds too much like "the incredible hulk"
19:23.03JordiGHYeah.
19:23.11JordiGHHULK SMASH DUPES
19:23.15JordiGHThat was intentional.
19:23.20bunneldaThere are a surfeit of duplicates I'm sure.
19:23.28kblinand seeing how my dayjob is working on a software called antiSMASH, I know all the hulk jokes already
19:23.41JordiGHkblin: I get music jokes. :-(
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19:25.19kblinwell, our first idea was "secondary metabolite analysis pipeline", but a quick google turned up that "SMAP" was the first winner of japanese idol
19:26.03kblinand a quick youtube check made sure we didn't want to share our search results with a boy grouo
19:26.06kblin*group
19:26.12JordiGHAh, of course: http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1100
19:26.57kblinright
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19:27.56kblineven though I'd love to be able to pulish a software called TZATZIKI one day
19:28.04kblinpublish, too
19:28.13kblinI can't type anymore, it seems
19:28.34JordiGHA software_
19:28.36JordiGH?
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19:28.42JordiGHOne software, two softwares, many softwares?
19:29.17kblinyes
19:29.21|Kev|Well, a ware is singular, so it stands to reason that a soft ware would also be singular.
19:29.53JordiGHEnglish cares not for your silly reasons: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/software#Noun
19:29.55qballerBut you can say I have some software that does that for me.
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19:30.02kblinJordiGH: if it was many softwares, a name like GYROS would be more appropriate
19:30.21JordiGHi.e. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#uncountable
19:30.32kblinhang on, let me log in and fix that for you
19:30.34|radiy|anubody take i posiive response to proposal?
19:30.55JordiGHkblin: Edit war!
19:31.25qballerAnd I thought students go crazy during this time . . .
19:31.40carols!logs
19:31.40gsocbotcarols: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/
19:31.46Lennie!next
19:31.47gsocbotLennie: "next" is (#1) Students: keep impressing your mentors; accepted proposals will be announced 19:00 UTC April 23., or (#2) Deduplication meeting April 20, 19:00 UTC. All slot assingments must have been made by 07:00 UTC.
19:32.01|Kev|qballer: GSoC is easier on the students than the mentos, I think.
19:32.26kblinqballer: sure, so as mentors, we need to get a head start ;)
19:32.37qballerI'm not sure about that, haven't been a mentor and I don't know if I'm GSoC student yet.
19:32.51|Kev|A number of people here have been both.
19:33.02qballerI know
19:33.18|Kev|I don't know how many of them would agree with me.
19:33.24qballerYou guys already passed the "am I in" phase , as an Org.
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19:33.29kblinqballer: hm, both is stressful, I'd say, but as a student at least it's your "job"
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19:34.06qballerIt's less about the Job part for being GSoC. more about the cool things you can do.
19:34.20kblinbut you can do cool things without gsoc :)
19:34.21qballerat least for me.
19:35.14|Kev|qballer: The thing about mentors is that they're likely holding down a full time job *and* making their own contributions to their projects *and* mentoring/adminning. It could get quite tiring. In that case the "It's your job" as a student makes it less conflicting/pressured.
19:35.18qballerTrue, though opportunity  lessens when you are a student as well. At least in code.
19:36.13|Kev|I'm not sure I follow that.
19:36.20|Kev|What opportunity is lessened by being a student?
19:36.40kblinthe opportunity of being stressed out? ;)
19:36.43qballerYea, but most mentors are proven programers, where us students will need to look for a job after GSoC and would like to do well on it. There is pressure here, trust me.
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19:36.57kblinqballer: I'm a student
19:37.05kblinnot in gsoc, but in real life
19:37.10qballerSame here.
19:37.16|Kev|kblin: There is no 'real life' when you're a student :)
19:37.21kblinas in "the place where the pizza is coming from"
19:37.33JordiGHThen where is IRL?
19:37.33kblinthere is, my pizza doesn't magically appear
19:37.37|Kev|And PhD students are the worst of the bunch.
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19:37.55qballerWhy?
19:38.07|Kev|qballer: Because kblin's a PhD student :)
19:38.12JordiGHThat's interesting, btw. I get the impression most of the students we get are undergrad. Do you get a lot of grad students doing GSoC?
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19:38.34qballerundergrad here.
19:38.37|Kev|JordiGH: Not disproportionately many, I'm just playing with kblin.
19:38.47|Kev|Although I was a grad when I did GSoC.
19:38.52JordiGHEntre broma y broma la verdad se asoma.
19:38.59kblinqballer: basically what I'm saying is that all the stress-out factors you're seeing as a gsoc student would also apply to at least some of the mentors
19:39.03qballer(If that is to refer to B.Sc and not M.A)
19:39.07JordiGHBetween one joke and another, truth rears its head.
19:39.49kblinJordiGH: I did my first gsoc as my undergrad thesis project
19:40.00|Kev|JordiGH: No, just a joke between someone who's done it and someone who's doing it, in this case.
19:40.11qballerHow was it kblin ?
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19:40.49qballerDid you have fun? Any specific trouble? Did you work on big projects before that?
19:41.31kblinqballer: I did have fun at times, I did have trouble at times, pretty much like any programming or lab project I've had since
19:41.45kblinand it was my first big project
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19:42.40qballerI worked on some projects before, not as a full time dev though. I have my final year project which is 3 people - Should be cool.
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19:43.06kblinso once I got over the shock that just because I had read some books on C programming, I couldn't code my way out of a paper bag, it was pretty nice
19:43.36kblinuntil I had to get my code accepted by the guy who owns the Wine repository
19:43.45kblinthat was decidedly less fun
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19:43.49qballerYea. I got that shock while I took sometime to try and contribute to Mozilla FF.
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19:43.58kblinpro tip: don't send people 6k line patches
19:44.05kblinnobody wants to read those
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19:44.37qballerIf you are developing a new feature, it can take up some lines of code.
19:45.04kblinright
19:45.14qballerSomeone needs to review, no?
19:45.25kblinbut if you put said future into a single patch, good luck finding someone to look at it
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19:45.51qballerOh, I broke it down in the proposal face Bi-Weekly patches.
19:46.17dfighter[2012-4-16 21:43] <@kblin> pro tip: don't send people 6k line patches  << that's so true
19:46.18qballerphase*
19:46.24dfighterI've had people submit more
19:46.35dfightermostly horribad style and even broken code
19:46.46dfighterthen they wonder why it's barely touched after 2 years
19:46.53dfighter:P
19:47.16qballerdefine "horribad style"
19:47.19kblinqballer: my tip would be to send patches more frequently, but talk to your mentor about that
19:47.44kblinI'd do lots of small patches, each implementing one sensible, logical step
19:47.46qballerI will probably he has been really great.
19:47.50|Kev|kblin: I go for 'develop in a public repo' - we'll be giving commit access to swift-contrib for our students.
19:48.03|Kev|Mind, we'll give commit access to that repo to pretty much anyone :)
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19:48.32qballer|Kev|: sandbox?
19:48.42dfighterqballer horribad style = unreadable
19:49.02kblin|Kev|: right, worldforge is using github, so we'll ask students to work on there, too
19:49.22|Kev|qballer: Every time we push to master swift-contrib/master gets force reset to the same, but otherwise it's just a sandbox, yes. Contributors could walk all over each other's branches if they wanted, but they don't, of course.
19:49.26kblin|Kev|: and samba had students use a gitorious repo last year, that was pretty good, too
19:49.31dfighterkblin git and hg are blessing for FLOSS
19:49.38dfighterpeople can just fork and work in their own repo
19:49.43dfighterand then put in a pull request
19:49.45|Kev|dfighter: git and hg are, sure, but kblin?
19:49.46dfighterlovely <3
19:50.14dfighter|Kev| kblin too ofc
19:50.22|Kev|Excellent.
19:50.36dfighteraltough that wasn't what I meant to mean :P
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19:50.48kblinI'll put that in the next job application I send off ;)
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19:51.09|Kev|"kblin is a popular version control system, like Git and Mercurial."
19:51.10dfighterbut then kblin is at wf, and wf is the umbrella for Ryzom where I sent my proposal
19:51.18dfighterand as the Ferengi rules of acquisitions state
19:51.24dfighterit's never too early to suck up to the boss!
19:52.08qballerI got to really understand git/SVN process to really understand how to create local repositories use branching etc..
19:52.31qballerI will go and Google that.
19:52.38kblin:)
19:53.09kblinthese days I even manage my git repos using a git repo
19:53.15|Kev|kblin: Doesn't everyone? :)
19:53.35kblindunno, I didn't for quite some time
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19:54.21thebolthi kblin et al
19:54.24qballer~scratches head~ I use source-forge svn but the build processes I have assumes some paths my team and I agreed on,
19:55.07kblinhey thebolt
19:55.12kblinhow's life?
19:55.41theboltbusy working.. back in sweden right now and company a bit on crunch-mode
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19:56.20|Kev|Evening thebolt.
19:57.08kblinthebolt: that explains the weird time for you
19:57.11theboltthen any sparetime i have is spent with fiance (she went with me)
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20:08.39iKoda!next
20:08.40gsocbotiKoda: "next" is (#1) Students: keep impressing your mentors; accepted proposals will be announced 19:00 UTC April 23., or (#2) Deduplication meeting April 20, 19:00 UTC. All slot assingments must have been made by 07:00 UTC.
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23:31.40pokoko222does the student get net 5000$?
23:31.49pokoko222or some part goes for tax and stuff maybe?
23:32.23ojwbpokoko222: it's likely to be taxable income in most places
23:32.30meflinthey get .. taxes are there issue
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23:33.21pokoko222so the student gets full 5000$?
23:33.23Al_Da_BestIt does vary on your situation. For me, it wont be taxed as it's under my income limit, but it varies
23:33.25ojwbthough there may be an allowance before you start getting taxed - e.g. in the UK it would fall below that level I think
23:33.47Al_Da_BestYeah, UK you're fine (unless you have a job taking you up to/over the limit)
23:33.51ojwbpokoko222: google pay you the full amount (assuming you pass midterm and at the end) and it's up to you to pay taxes
23:33.56Upthornthe student gets gross $5000, for which they are responsible for paying any relevant taxes
23:34.11ojwbI think they actually but a little more on the card, to cover withdrawal fees
23:34.17ojwbs/but/put
23:34.34carlasouzaits $5500
23:34.39pokoko222that depends on the country you are from or only on the bank you use?
23:34.46Upthornbut $500 goes to mentors
23:34.46pokoko222carlasouza: no 500$ goes to the mentor
23:34.53carlasouzapokoko222: oh thats true
23:34.54Al_Da_BestDepends on the country
23:34.55ojwbno, $500 goes to the *org*
23:34.57meflinno $500 goes to the mentoring org
23:35.10ojwbwho may pass it on to the mentors, but aren't obliged to
23:35.15pokoko222why would it depend on the country I dont get it
23:35.18meflinI have always received $0 for mentoring
23:35.22Al_Da_BestTaxes would, I mean
23:35.27agliodbsojwb: yeah, we usually use that money to fund student travel
23:35.46pokoko222it is a bank transfer, I dont see why it would depend on country
23:35.56ojwbwe used it to cover the short fall in flight costs for the mentor summit, and to hold a documentation sprint
23:35.57pokoko222well I will use the money for school so that is why I ask...
23:36.14ojwbpokoko222: it's not a bank transfer, it's a preloaded card
23:36.26ojwblike a prepay visa or mastercard
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23:36.35pokoko222oh
23:36.35Upthornadditionally, different countries have different regulations for bank transfers
23:36.53pokoko222ok so in worst case how much money do people lose out of the 5000$?
23:37.05ojwbpokoko222: that entirely depends on you local tax system
23:37.08pokoko222some examples you heard of...
23:37.08Upthornfor instance, there is a type of transfer available only between two US bank accounts
23:37.18pokoko222ojwb: I have no idea how it works actually
23:37.44Upthornpokoko222: it depends on how you withdraw the funds and your local tax codes
23:38.01pokoko222ok guys, so worst case scenario is?
23:38.06Upthornthe prepaid card likely has a fee for cash withdrawal
23:38.07pokoko222lose maybe 100$
23:38.28pokoko222yeah but it should cost much I guess
23:38.40pokoko222not cost much*
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23:39.00dfighter100$ would be a very low income tax
23:39.01Catfish_Manpokoko222: well, the highest marginal income tax bracket in the US at least is 35%, so that would be much more than $100
23:39.05Upthornthere is no worst case, if you make 2000 withdrawals of $0.01 you'll lose basically all of the money to withdrawal fees
23:39.25LoreheadI suspect very few college students are in the top marginal tax bracket. :)
23:39.27Upthornbut that would be stupid
23:39.28Fare_pokoko222: You are from Macedonia?
23:39.37Catfish_ManLorehead: agreed
23:39.45pokoko222Fare_ yes
23:40.36pokoko222wow 35 % is a lot
23:40.40LoreheadFor what it's worth, when I got paid in '08, I took out the money through a balance transfer and paid self-employment tax and state income tax.  I believe my net federal income tax liability was $0.
23:40.44pokoko222just for money transfer, 35 % wholy ...
23:41.00ojwbpokoko222: 35% is income tax
23:41.09ojwbmoney transfer is usually a few $
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23:41.20pokoko222income as if you are employed?
23:41.30Upthornyes.
23:41.34pokoko222ah no worry then
23:41.35ojwband i believe google actually pay you something like $505 not $500 for the first payment, etc
23:41.36pokoko222I am not
23:41.40dfighterlol
23:41.51ojwbpokoko222: if you are accepted into gsoc, technically you are...
23:41.53dfighterpokoko222 if you do gsoc you are employed by Google
23:41.57pokoko222so being not employed I would then waste couple of bucks for the money transfer then
23:42.03dfighteras an outside contractor
23:42.05Upthornwell your government is likely to consider your summer of code internship as employment
23:42.37pokoko222oh boy, I thought you guys mean employed by another company
23:42.42LoreheadThe last time I did it, we were considered self-employed in the U.S. (for tax purposes).
23:43.02pokoko222so I would give away 30% or so of the money after all
23:43.13Upthornit depends on your local laws
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23:43.24Upthornwe do not know where you live, so we do not know what your taxes would be
23:43.27LoreheadBut you should really ask a tax professional these questions.
23:43.35Catfish_Manpokoko222: you only have a 35% income tax rate if you a) live in the united states, and b) make >$350,000/year
23:43.48pokoko222Catfish_Man: I dont
23:43.54UpthornCatfish_Man: well other countries have higher tax rates than the US
23:44.01Upthornfrequentlyt
23:44.01Catfish_Manpokoko222: are you intentionally missing my point, or are you just not getting it?
23:44.05Fare_pokoko222: Just search there http://www.ujp.gov.mk/
23:44.16Catfish_Manpokoko222: I'm attempting to explain that you need to investigate your country's tax laws in order to calculate this and we can't help you
23:44.32meflinI can't even help you if you lived in my country :)
23:44.42pokoko222Fare_ search for what? :)
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23:44.59Upthorntaxes
23:44.59Fare_what you need, this is document from you govermont (UPRAVNA PRIHODA)
23:45.17Fare_I am from Serbia, i just use google and found this...
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23:46.16meflinhmm how many mentors are there/ where there last year ?
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23:48.22thgil!stats
23:48.22gsocbotthgil: I have 2 registered users with 2 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins.
23:48.30Fare_pokoko222: http://www.ujp.gov.mk/files/attachment/0000/0339/Personal_Income_Tax_Law_revised_version_139_09.pdf try this
23:49.00meflinwell what I think I am realy after is how large is the -mentors email list
23:49.02pokoko222thanks :) Fare_ wow there is lots to read
23:49.18LoreheadGSOC says that there were around 1,100 students last year, so there were probably almost that number of mentors?
23:49.19Fare_just skip some parts...
23:49.31LoreheadAlso, I don't think they kick off mentors from previous years. :)
23:49.40meflinemail list wise I think that would mean at least double
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23:49.58Mekmany organizations try to keep a 2:1 mentors-students ratio (so two mentors per student)
23:50.12meflinalso admins, mentors who dont end up with slots bla bla
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23:50.45LoreheadAlso, more students this year.
23:50.55Upthornpokoko222: people in your own country are more likely to be able to help you than we are
23:51.15Upthornif you have difficulty understanding that document
23:51.56meflinso probably in the 3K range for the list
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23:54.21ojwbmeflin: 5081
23:54.28meflinooo
23:54.38meflinthis year or last?
23:56.06ojwbmeflin: subscribed to the mentor list right now
23:56.11ojwbwell, a minute ago
23:56.12meflinah thanks :)
23:56.28meflinnow I need to put my thought into a happy place and write a faq item :)
23:56.29ojwbthough I'm on twice...
23:58.38pokoko222someone is an ex-gsoc student? :)
23:58.39meflinthen sit on it pass it around and such :)
23:59.20meflinpokoko222: I know of some .. if its still the tax thing the locality you live in is the most important thing

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