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| 06:44.09 | HungryAsif | Hello there! |
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| 08:03.01 | carols | serves some tea and stroopwafels |
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| 10:01.32 | carols | serves more coffee and stroopwafels |
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| 12:36.08 | carols | serves some tea and coffee |
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| 12:54.43 | kai | tea _and_ chocolate... yay! |
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| 13:25.11 | carols | has some coffee and stroopwafels |
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| 13:35.36 | carols | everyone looking forward to org apps opening today? |
| 13:35.37 | carols | i know i am |
| 13:37.02 | |Kev| | We've decided not to participate this year, but thanks for running it again regardless. |
| 13:37.04 | derdon | looking more forward to get to see the list of accepted projects |
| 13:37.17 | derdon | |Kev|: who is "we"? |
| 13:38.05 | kai | carols: I'm still in the "poking project members with pointy stick" phase of gsoc preparations |
| 13:38.18 | kai | at least for one of the projects, the other one is fine |
| 13:38.28 | carols | well, that's a precursor to the application, right, kai? |
| 13:38.47 | kai | sure, it's the phase where the wiki pages are updated eventually |
| 13:39.21 | carols | that's something :-) |
| 13:39.23 | |Kev| | derdon: XMPP Standards Foundation. |
| 13:40.38 | kai | I see the pointy stick as a motivational device to channel the task avoidance potential from "avoid updating the wiki" to "avoid the pointy stick" |
| 13:40.42 | derdon | I see |
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| 13:49.22 | carols | serves some more tea and coffee |
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| 13:58.45 | koda | kai, oh yeah, i'm in that phase too |
| 13:58.59 | koda | i suggest a very sharp stick, works better |
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| 14:07.34 | kai | koda: :) |
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| 15:14.24 | kai | oh, come on, github, work... |
| 15:15.30 | kai | 67% packet loss.. sporty |
| 15:16.05 | kai | and fancy routing at my university... :) |
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| 15:27.31 | dberkholz | morning folks |
| 15:28.03 | dberkholz | carols: are you traveling or just up insanely early? |
| 15:28.18 | derdon | dberkholz: good morning, weird timezoner :P |
| 15:28.19 | carols | dberkholz: i'm in amsterdam for the melange all hands. |
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| 15:28.51 | dberkholz | that makes a lot more sense than waking up at 3:30 |
| 15:29.06 | JordiGH | kai: Could be worse, could be IPoAC packet loss. |
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| 15:30.29 | kai | JordiGH: then I'd have to yell at the harrier living on our building to stop eating my pidgeons, easy fix |
| 15:31.23 | JordiGH | The original IPoAC implementation had 55% packet loss. ;_; |
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| 16:05.02 | kai | ha! another success for the pointy stick motivational tool :) |
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| 17:29.50 | JordiGH | Is writing more unit tests a valid GSoC project? It's not just a doc project, is it? |
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| 17:30.30 | derdon | JordiGH: I don't think it's enough |
| 17:31.03 | JordiGH | derdon: On what are you basing this? |
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| 17:31.36 | derdon | on discussions I heard from other projects. but maybe I'm from, I'm not a good source |
| 17:32.24 | derdon | gsoc projects should actually add new features. they should be novel, i.e. the software can do something new after the modifications |
| 17:32.45 | derdon | of course, extending exisitng features is also good |
| 17:32.56 | derdon | but just adding more tests, I don't know |
| 17:32.58 | gevaerts | derdon: so no rewrites? |
| 17:33.17 | derdon | gevaerts: they are fine as well, I think |
| 17:33.26 | derdon | it helps the project |
| 17:33.50 | gevaerts | They don't add new features, they aren't novel, and the software can do nothing new after them :) |
| 17:34.44 | JordiGH | It seems to me like unit tests are a coding task, which I understand is the only requirement. |
| 17:35.17 | derdon | JordiGH: the best source is probably a google employer |
| 17:35.45 | gevaerts | In my view unit tests would be acceptable, but as a student I wouldn't touch them :) |
| 17:36.07 | gevaerts | I'm not a student though, so maybe I'm wrong |
| 17:36.20 | derdon | JordiGH: think of other related things you could do. introduce coverage if it doesn't exist yet, for example |
| 17:36.44 | derdon | JordiGH: or testing the software with different version of X and Y in an automated way |
| 17:37.15 | JordiGH | Introduce unit tests and fix the tests that fail. ;-) |
| 17:37.34 | derdon | yay :) |
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| 17:55.17 | haseeb | hi kai |
| 17:56.00 | kai | hi haseeb |
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| 17:56.50 | haseeb | kai, is there a flask related task this time in WorldForge ? |
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| 18:04.52 | kai | haseeb: not sure yet, to be honest |
| 18:05.01 | kai | I'm pretty busy, for all I can see |
| 18:05.02 | haseeb | ok |
| 18:05.08 | haseeb | ok ok |
| 18:05.15 | kai | sorry :) |
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| 18:06.05 | kai | haseeb: arguably, if someone would be willing to step up to breathe new life into WOMBAT, I'd be tempted to mentor this |
| 18:06.31 | kai | but I'd have to be convinced that this wouldn't be a gsoc-only activity |
| 18:06.54 | kai | I think wombat is a really great tool, but it really needs some new ideas |
| 18:07.07 | kai | and a maintainer |
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| 18:20.14 | carols | serves some tea and coffee |
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| 18:32.49 | Guest39087 | hello |
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| 18:34.23 | Nasif | hello |
| 18:34.30 | Monolog | Hello |
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| 18:39.40 | carols | hello Monolog and Nasif |
| 18:39.57 | Nasif | hi carols |
| 18:40.03 | carols | hi :-) |
| 18:40.03 | shubham | hello everyone |
| 18:40.07 | carols | hi shubham |
| 18:40.16 | Nasif | this is my 1st day at irc :P |
| 18:40.18 | shubham | hi carols |
| 18:40.28 | carols | hi :-) |
| 18:40.28 | Monolog | Hi shubham, carols and, why not, igor_stama |
| 18:40.29 | shubham | same here |
| 18:41.14 | Nasif | where are you from |
| 18:41.19 | Nasif | i m from dhaka |
| 18:41.51 | shubham | i am from india |
| 18:42.28 | shubham | so you guys are looking forward for gsoc13 |
| 18:42.30 | Nasif | i m a 3rd yr cs student |
| 18:42.39 | Nasif | yes i am |
| 18:43.21 | shubham | i also in my 3rd yr |
| 18:43.55 | Nasif | i was looking for a suitable project |
| 18:44.03 | Nasif | can anyone help me to choose one? |
| 18:44.23 | Monolog | Full-time job + student on vacation + full-time GSoC = anyone tried this? |
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| 18:44.59 | carols | Monolog: most people haven't. it's not recommended. |
| 18:45.06 | Nasif | nope |
| 18:45.19 | carols | Nasif: we haven't chosen participating orgs yet, so i don't think anyone can help you on that front. |
| 18:45.48 | Nasif | yes i know carols and thank you for the reply |
| 18:45.49 | Monolog | I know.. It's a bad idea. But damn I'd love to succeded that. |
| 18:46.16 | carols | Monolog: how come? why not just choose what you'd like to do most instead of stressing yourself out and possibly setting yourself up for failure? |
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| 18:46.55 | Nasif | monolog is planning to code 12 hours a day i guess :P |
| 18:47.04 | Nasif | an thats kinda insane |
| 18:47.09 | derdon | Monolog: leave out "sleep". then it might work |
| 18:47.29 | carols | don't leave out the sleep. instead, choose what you'd like to do. |
| 18:47.34 | carols | and do that. |
| 18:47.44 | Monolog | yeah.. I find it hard to choose. |
| 18:48.02 | carols | Monolog: i understand. so give it some further thought. |
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| 18:48.38 | Monolog | I certainly will :> |
| 18:48.47 | carols | :-) |
| 18:48.49 | carols | good luck. |
| 18:49.02 | Monolog | Thanks. Ok, Schoko & Keks time!! |
| 18:49.17 | derdon | haha |
| 18:52.23 | derdon | ah yes, St. Patrick's Day |
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| 19:04.59 | akif500 | org application starts now \m/ |
| 19:05.30 | stefanha | \o/ begin \o/ |
| 19:05.30 | JordiGH | goes check. |
| 19:08.18 | derdon | runs away |
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| 19:23.19 | gary_b | Monolog: aiming for the mono project? |
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| 19:25.20 | JordiGH | Monolol? |
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| 19:28.08 | JordiGH | How are you supposed to find this link? http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/application/google/gsoc2013 |
| 19:28.30 | Monolog | gary_b: Oh, no. It's just a nickname, as in `monologue`. |
| 19:28.41 | gary_b | ah i see |
| 19:30.17 | downey | JordiGH: I found it by looking for the big orange button on the home page of Melange. :) |
| 19:31.04 | JordiGH | downey: That took me to a "what is your name? What is your quest?" page. For me, not for my org. |
| 19:31.27 | carols | JordiGH: you have to have a profile first in order to apply. |
| 19:31.32 | carols | so this is the correct OOO |
| 19:31.34 | carols | :-) |
| 19:31.35 | downey | JordiGH: What carols said |
| 19:31.50 | carols | thanks downey |
| 19:31.56 | JordiGH | So after I fill out my profile, it should take me to where I actually want to go, right? |
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| 19:31.59 | downey | starts the tea |
| 19:32.09 | carols | the melange-bashing has begun early this year, i see. |
| 19:32.26 | carols | JordiGH: after you create a profile the big orange button will change, yes. |
| 19:32.49 | JordiGH | I'd submit a bug fix, but it's easier to just work around it by posting the url where you have to go. Maybe next year... |
| 19:34.11 | carols | JordiGH: i don't believe it's a bug. as i said, it's the correct order of operations. |
| 19:34.17 | carols | you can't apply without a profile. |
| 19:34.26 | carols | so the first thing you do is create a profile. |
| 19:34.39 | JordiGH | It's fine to request a profile first, but after that's done, melange should remember where you actually wanted to go instead and take you there. |
| 19:35.14 | carols | sure. |
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| 19:39.13 | JordiGH | At least Melange's bad UI is familiar and comfortable to those of us working on free projects and the bad UIs in our own projects. ;-) |
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| 20:14.09 | spectie | hey all! |
| 20:16.18 | spectie | for the question "What criteria did you use to select your mentors for this year's program? Please be as specific as possible." is it desirable to have a per-mentor breakdown, or is it better to give a general list of criteria ? |
| 20:16.41 | spectie | in past years we've given a per-mentor breakdown of why we think they are the best(!) |
| 20:17.00 | olly | has always put the general criteria used |
| 20:17.06 | spectie | but the question has changed slightly since last year |
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| 20:17.21 | spectie | hey cat! |
| 20:17.35 | carols | spectie: be general. |
| 20:17.45 | spectie | carols, ok, thanks |
| 20:17.57 | carols | we don't care about per-mentor, but we want to know your selection criteria as well as you can describe it. |
| 20:18.07 | spectie | i got that vibe |
| 20:18.15 | carols | we've had too many orgs just pulling mentors off the street and not doing well by the students. |
| 20:18.48 | spectie | understood |
| 20:19.12 | olly | makes a note not to answer "by pulling them off the street" |
| 20:19.13 | spectie | :) |
| 20:19.15 | spectie | haha! |
| 20:19.29 | gevaerts | olly: use a gutter instead! |
| 20:19.44 | meflin | hmm you know at MS I do not think I've seen a session on ... how to choose mentors ... could be worthwhile |
| 20:19.55 | olly | "our mentors may have been pulled out of the nearest gutter, but they were looking at the stars" |
| 20:20.02 | spectie | XD |
| 20:23.06 | olly | meflin: i don't recall one either |
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| 21:23.57 | badlogic1 | hi, quick question: is their any help from Google for students that need an ITIN for double tax treaties and similar things? |
| 21:24.26 | badlogic1 | one would usually have to do that through an agency, which may be too costly for some students |
| 21:25.09 | badlogic1 | we have quite some students from outside the US who showed interest, and we want to make things as easy as possible for them |
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| 21:25.49 | meflin | I have no idea what that even is ... but that is probably a question for carol |
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| 21:34.57 | badlogic1 | an ITIN is a tax identification number you need to get from the IRS |
| 21:35.15 | badlogic1 | one has to send form W7B to the IRS to get that as a non-US citizen |
| 21:35.39 | badlogic1 | otherwise both the US and your country of residence will claim income tax |
| 21:36.30 | meflin | I've had quite a few non-us students I've never had them ask me for any help |
| 21:37.24 | badlogic1 | then they probably got taxed twice |
| 21:37.30 | meflin | I've also never heard of that |
| 21:37.31 | badlogic1 | unless they didn't declare their gsoc income |
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| 21:37.47 | waldi | badlogic1: students outside the US does not need to do anything. google will ask for confirmation that they are outside the US |
| 21:37.58 | badlogic1 | i'm a non-us citizen and had to do that for my income as a book author for a US publisher as well |
| 21:38.10 | badlogic1 | waldi: thanks! |
| 21:39.42 | waldi | badlogic1: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2013/help_page |
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| 21:41.30 | badlogic1 | ya, terribly sorry, found a FAQ entry for it |
| 21:41.38 | badlogic1 | looks like Google plays the agent in that case, awesome |
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| 21:43.18 | meflin | well that does explain why I've never heard of it .. its long handled :) |
| 21:44.32 | badlogic1 | really glad it's handled by Google, took me 5 weeks to finally get all the things i need... |
| 21:45.32 | badlogic1 | thanks for the quick responses folks, i shall repent and work on my reading comprehension skills :) |
| 21:45.37 | badlogic1 | back to idlig |
| 21:45.38 | badlogic1 | *idling |
| 21:45.54 | meflin | better to work on your org submission :) |
| 21:46.16 | badlogic1 | yeah, just submitted the first draft, will try to improve it over the next few days |
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| 21:55.16 | bruening | I'm editing my Mentoring Organization Application and I keep selecting "New" in the drop-down for "Veteran/New", but when I hit the "submit" button it instead chooses Veteran (i.e., the dropdown resets to Veteran) |
| 21:55.29 | cbab | Hey folks, I submitted my organization application, but the Veteran/New question keep coming back as "Veteran" even though I entered "New" |
| 21:55.36 | cbab | bruening: beat me by a few seconds :P |
| 21:55.37 | bruening | jinx |
| 21:59.40 | badlogic1 | can confirm this issue as well |
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| 22:09.26 | ThomasWaldmann | always easier for veterans :D |
| 22:10.26 | ThomasWaldmann | Lennie: ^^ |
| 22:11.36 | derdon | I wonder what reasons there might be to reject an application from an organisation |
| 22:11.47 | derdon | isn't everything welcome? |
| 22:12.31 | meflin | there are too many applications and a few of them are poor |
| 22:12.33 | gevaerts | derdon: I don't think many correct applications are rejected as such |
| 22:12.47 | gevaerts | But there's a limited amount of available slots |
| 22:13.47 | ThomasWaldmann | hi derdon |
| 22:13.48 | derdon | ah, I see |
| 22:14.22 | derdon | hi ThomasWaldmann :) |
| 22:14.26 | meflin | I umbrella's an org that was rejected last year ... there app to me looked good ... but they had no experience and no stable of mentors , or persons to vouch for them |
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| 22:15.34 | badlogic1 | will be interesting to see if we get accepted, we have 8 mentors, a GSoC org and a Google to vouch for us, but we are gaming related |
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| 22:16.03 | badlogic1 | hard to compete with more useful projects like kernel.org :) |
| 22:16.29 | meflin | lots of gaming projects in GSOC |
| 22:16.43 | meflin | also most people think that kernel.org == linux kernel it doesn't |
| 22:17.08 | badlogic1 | i know of blender and ogre3d, but those have been around way longer than we have |
| 22:17.18 | badlogic1 | @kernel.org, i guess i got some reading to do :) |
| 22:17.22 | meflin | westnoth for sure |
| 22:17.33 | badlogic1 | oh, westnoth was a gsoc org as well? nice |
| 22:17.34 | meflin | linux kernel dev == Linux Foundation |
| 22:18.15 | meflin | the last 3 years there has been mentor summit game sessions well attended |
| 22:18.15 | badlogic1 | the more you know |
| 22:18.28 | badlogic1 | oh? didn't know there was such a thing |
| 22:18.50 | meflin | the range of projects is huge |
| 22:19.39 | badlogic1 | well, all we can do is try to have a strong application and see where it leads us :) |
| 22:19.51 | meflin | do your best ... also be ready to umbrella |
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| 22:20.12 | badlogic1 | yeah, i guess our chances for that may be better |
| 22:20.32 | badlogic1 | one of our vouchers may do that |
| 22:20.35 | meflin | wont hurt to try for more |
| 22:20.42 | badlogic1 | oh, we are trying :) |
| 22:20.53 | ThomasWaldmann | badlogic1: you can also get in contact with potential mentoring orgs and just show them you can work on some of their stuff |
| 22:21.17 | ThomasWaldmann | (if you are a student) |
| 22:21.26 | badlogic1 | i'm from an org |
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| 22:22.30 | ThomasWaldmann | ok, then it's good ideas, some mentors and a good application |
| 22:24.55 | ThomasWaldmann | any python-using orgs here? |
| 22:25.44 | meflin | why? |
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| 22:26.57 | ThomasWaldmann | just curious |
| 22:27.04 | meflin | yes |
| 22:27.14 | ThomasWaldmann | is from MoinMoin Wiki |
| 22:27.58 | delroth | these application questions are tricky :P |
| 22:31.45 | derdon | "why are manhole covers round?" |
| 22:31.56 | derdon | like this, delroth? |
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| 22:33.38 | ThomasWaldmann | easy :) |
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