| 00:00.38 | kblin | hm, durn |
| 00:00.52 | kblin | I thought I had a dev version of gsocbot installed on my laptop |
| 00:01.14 | kblin | but SIGWIFE, see you tomorrow, folks |
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| 07:57.58 | kblin | hey carols |
| 07:58.04 | carols | hi kblin |
| 07:59.14 | kblin | !queue |
| 07:59.14 | gsocbot | kblin: I queued you at position 1 in the queue |
| 07:59.28 | kblin | carols: can you just check if !nextinline works for you? |
| 08:00.03 | kblin | or any other op who's not me? :) |
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| 08:01.36 | carols | !nextinline |
| 08:01.36 | gsocbot | carols: Next in line is kblin |
| 08:01.40 | kblin | perfect |
| 08:01.44 | carols | looks like it? |
| 08:01.52 | carols | thanks kblin |
| 08:02.04 | kblin | so we save one round-trip during the meeting |
| 08:02.09 | carols | awesome. |
| 08:03.03 | kblin | I could look into having the bot devoice the old person and voice the new one, but seeing how we often voice/devoice multiple people, I don't think that's worth the effort |
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| 08:03.51 | kblin | I think this gets us the 80% of the way that were 20% of the effort to set up |
| 08:04.44 | carols | yep, i think that's great. |
| 08:04.47 | carols | thanks again for doing that |
| 08:04.54 | carols | i owe you chocolate or something :-) |
| 08:05.08 | kblin | no problem |
| 08:05.49 | kblin | I like building tools that make people's life easier |
| 08:06.08 | kblin | ok, gsocbot, let's get you back into your sandbox |
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| 08:08.22 | kblin | and off to work |
| 08:10.03 | Scenekicks | Hello all. I was wondering if anyone can tell me what the process is for applying as a student. Basically, what do I have to do? |
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| 08:13.15 | carols | Scenekicks: have you read over the timeline and faqs? |
| 08:13.26 | carols | (and student manual) |
| 08:13.58 | Scenekicks | @carols I read over the timeline and faqs. Where is the student manual? |
| 08:14.13 | carols | it's linked to at the start of the student manual. |
| 08:14.42 | gevaerts | !studentguide | Scenekicks |
| 08:14.42 | gsocbot | Scenekicks: "studentguide" is http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ |
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| 08:16.25 | Scenekicks | Thank you, much appreciated. |
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| 08:30.26 | carols | serves some tea and coffee |
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| 08:38.33 | gevaerts | Ah, coffee! |
| 08:38.35 | gevaerts | Thanks! |
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| 08:47.58 | carols | you're welcome :-) |
| 08:48.02 | carols | how are you gevaerts? |
| 08:48.59 | gevaerts | I'm fine. Holiday and all :) |
| 08:49.18 | gevaerts | is in London right now |
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| 08:57.12 | carols | that sounds nice |
| 08:57.18 | carols | i'm in amsterdam, not on holiday :-) |
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| 09:47.49 | carols | hey MatthewWilkes :-) |
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| 09:48.24 | MatthewWilkes | carols! |
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| 09:48.33 | carols | good morning :-) |
| 09:48.57 | MatthewWilkes | Perhaps for you, I'm not allowed any food or drink (except water) until midday |
| 09:49.06 | MatthewWilkes | That is, I've not had any tea yet |
| 09:49.07 | carols | ah, well. |
| 09:49.13 | carols | that's a shame. |
| 09:49.16 | MatthewWilkes | :) |
| 09:49.33 | MatthewWilkes | If there's anything the british love, it's moaning about things. |
| 09:50.10 | carols | and then carrying on anyway. |
| 09:50.15 | dm8tbr | good moaning |
| 09:50.43 | carols | good moaning dm8tbr |
| 09:52.09 | MatthewWilkes | absolutely |
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| 10:15.23 | kai | MatthewWilkes: I can take over moaning at midday, because we'll have a 1h power outage |
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| 10:18.22 | MatthewWilkes | kai: Sure you'll have a network connection? |
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| 10:34.04 | kai | MatthewWilkes: that's the annoying part, no |
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| 10:37.15 | kai | MatthewWilkes: my servers all have backup power, but the network equipment outside of my control doesn't |
| 10:37.19 | kai | so that's dead for an hour |
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| 12:39.40 | carols | serves some coffee |
| 12:41.41 | MatthewWilkes | delicious caffeine :) |
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| 12:47.19 | carols | seriously. |
| 12:47.27 | carols | did you get your tea, MatthewWilkes? |
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| 12:51.43 | MatthewWilkes | Yep! |
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| 13:04.07 | HackNewton | hi |
| 13:04.58 | carols | hi HackNewton |
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| 13:06.43 | HackNewton | hay I wnat to join Google Summer of Code but this is my first time to join it. I dont know where to start please will anyone guide me please |
| 13:08.44 | carols | HackNewton: sure. have you read the FAQs and the student manual? |
| 13:09.07 | carols | or, i guess, the mentor manual, if you're trying to apply at a mentoring organization. |
| 13:09.09 | carols | ah, ok |
| 13:09.10 | carols | bye |
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| 13:09.22 | carols | welcome back HackNewton |
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| 13:09.54 | HackNewton | thaks @carols |
| 13:09.58 | carols | yw |
| 13:10.55 | HackNewton | hay @carols will you please help me |
| 13:11.02 | carols | sure, did you get my last message? |
| 13:11.10 | carols | i was wondering if you had read the FAQs and the manuals. |
| 13:11.12 | HackNewton | nope |
| 13:11.23 | HackNewton | yes I read both of them |
| 13:11.30 | carols | ok, great. |
| 13:11.39 | carols | then are there specific questions i can answer for you? |
| 13:11.45 | carols | that aren't explained in the manuals. |
| 13:12.49 | HackNewton | Well i am not sure which project should i select |
| 13:13.14 | carols | well, we haven't chosen organizations yet, so you can't choose a mentoring organization for this year yet. |
| 13:13.31 | carols | but i can recommend finding an open source project generally that you're interested in working with and helping out now. |
| 13:14.44 | HackNewton | well last time i choose a open source project but later i found it was closed due to inactivity of users. |
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| 13:15.18 | carols | well, these things happen. |
| 13:15.23 | carols | but don't be discouraged! find another. |
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| 13:16.43 | HackNewton | ok ! any tip you want to give as i am just newbie into Open source area ? |
| 13:17.37 | carols | volunteer for open source organizations! |
| 13:17.48 | carols | it's a great way to get experience and get references with an existing community. |
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| 13:18.52 | HackNewton | ok thanks buddy. |
| 13:19.03 | carols | you're welcome. |
| 13:19.42 | MatthewWilkes | Speaking as someone who's admined and mentored for organisations in GSoC before, and who hopes to again, if a student comes to us saying "I did some work with x, but they're not participating in GSoC" the first thing I'd do is speak to the devs at x and take that into account when evaluating your application |
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| 13:20.07 | carols | thanks MatthewWilkes. |
| 13:20.13 | MatthewWilkes | So, participating in an open source community that's not part of GSoC still helps your application |
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| 13:20.36 | HackNewton | Thanks MatthewWilkes |
| 13:20.54 | darnir | Wow, I know there's a lot of bonding in the Open Source Community, but I never though the admin would actually gget a referral from the other org. |
| 13:22.16 | carols | darnir: why not? :-) |
| 13:22.24 | carols | it's like a job reference from a previous employer. |
| 13:22.40 | darnir | Just didn't think it happpens. Not saying it shouldn't |
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| 13:23.48 | carols | well, that's part of the point of the mentor summit, actually. |
| 13:24.06 | carols | to get orbs to get to know each other and foster cross-community coorespondence. |
| 13:24.28 | carols | orgs, even |
| 13:24.53 | darnir | Oh nice! |
| 13:25.01 | carols | :-) |
| 13:25.12 | carols | maybe MatthewWilkes will vouch for me on that point too. |
| 13:25.18 | MatthewWilkes | That, and to build lego toys and eat chocolate |
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| 13:25.38 | carols | yep. |
| 13:25.46 | carols | thanks for confirming that, MatthewWilkes |
| 13:25.56 | darnir | Chocolate! You sold it. I'm pushing hard to be there soonenough now :-D |
| 13:26.17 | carols | good luck. |
| 13:26.38 | MatthewWilkes | :) |
| 13:26.40 | carols | not only does your org have to get accepted, but you have to mentor or be an org admin this year, and then you have to be one of the two chosen people to go. |
| 13:26.42 | darnir | Thanks carols |
| 13:26.47 | carols | it's a long road to the mentor summit. :-) |
| 13:26.49 | carols | yw |
| 13:27.03 | MatthewWilkes | So, for me, the best evidence for GSoC helping orgs to talk to eachother better is http://open-advice.org/ |
| 13:27.17 | darnir | I know, read the Mentor guide too, apart from the student guide. |
| 13:28.00 | MatthewWilkes | I recognise a lot of photos of the authors of that book from the mentor summit, and a lot of people in Plone have read it |
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| 13:31.06 | darnir | However, I should thank GSoC for that push. I know a lot of people who have been on the brink of contributing to Open Source for a long time. It's often GSoC that gives the final push |
| 13:32.33 | carols | gsoc is nice for things like that. |
| 13:32.45 | carols | i've heard some great success stories from students, too. |
| 13:33.05 | carols | just the other day a student said, "all the great things that have happened in my life have been because of gsoc." |
| 13:33.09 | carols | that was nice to hear. |
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| 13:34.57 | HackNewton | well and "A lot of motivation for me" |
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| 13:39.59 | kai_ | yay, internets |
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| 13:40.34 | kai | die, evil nick grabber! >:) |
| 13:41.10 | carols | very evil. |
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| 13:42.00 | kai | carols: I'm not sure that "all the great things that happened in my life" are due to gsoc, but certainly a lot of them |
| 13:42.18 | carols | well, that's still a lot more than other university outreach programs can say. |
| 13:42.48 | kai | sure |
| 13:43.26 | kai | heck, going to an OSS conf wearing a gsoc shirt gets you into conversation with so many people you'd never have talked to otherwise |
| 13:43.45 | carols | that's pretty cool :-) |
| 13:44.03 | kai | without GSoC I sure wouldn't have written my own DNS server, though I'm not sure that counts as "great thing" ;) |
| 13:44.09 | carols | apparently i'm supposed to bring back the lines for food at the mentor summit this year because people didn't have a chance to talk to each other otherwise... |
| 13:44.27 | kai | carols: ... |
| 13:44.36 | carols | yeah, i know. |
| 13:44.53 | carols | the t-shirts are by far the worst for complaints though. |
| 13:45.02 | kai | maybe we can bring a ball of yarn, and then we can throw it to each other and all introduce ourselves |
| 13:45.15 | carols | in the time i've been running the program our t-shirts have been: too thick, too rough, too thin, too small, and too big. |
| 13:45.29 | carols | kai: not a bad idea. |
| 13:45.40 | kai | carols: and the wrong colour, or too colourful |
| 13:45.44 | carols | yep. |
| 13:45.56 | carols | too black, as well. |
| 13:46.01 | kai | which reminds me that I also wanted to complain about the color of my free pony... |
| 13:46.10 | carols | ah! i'm glad i reminded you |
| 13:46.16 | carols | otherwise you might have forgotten :-) |
| 13:47.09 | kai | carols: of course you're aware that if the worst the people can whine about is the t-shirt or the lack of a line while getting food, you're doing pretty much everything right |
| 13:47.39 | carols | you're very sweet looking at the bright side like that. |
| 13:47.49 | carols | i'm not mentioning all the personal nasty grams i get in a year. |
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| 13:49.49 | kai | those people really need to go to scientific conferences more. you need to pay for a ticket, you need to pay for your hotel, flight, food, and usually your t-shirt isn't too black or too small because there simply isn't any. if you're lucky, you'll get a pen |
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| 13:50.17 | carols | those people need to be automatically removed from the program. |
| 13:50.21 | Arthur_D | may I ask how the mentor summit is organized: it's meeting physically somewhere, right? |
| 13:50.33 | carols | but now my personal feelings are intefereing with my work :-) |
| 13:50.42 | carols | Arthur_D: yes, in mtv |
| 13:50.46 | carols | sorry, mountain view |
| 13:50.49 | carols | on google's campus |
| 13:50.57 | kai | Arthur_D: yeah, google invites two mentors per org to googlehq, and we geek out together for a weekend |
| 13:51.13 | Arthur_D | ok, guess noone from our org can go then |
| 13:51.26 | kai | Arthur_D: how so? |
| 13:51.41 | carols | Arthur_D: well, you could if you applied to be a mentoring org for gsoc, get accepted, and then send mentors to the summit. |
| 13:51.50 | carols | but if you're not planning on applying or participating, then... |
| 13:52.01 | kai | I mean, apart fromt he usual hurdle of getting accepted first, and then not messing up during gsoc |
| 13:52.02 | Arthur_D | well that's the plan |
| 13:52.08 | Arthur_D | sure |
| 13:52.17 | carols | great :-) |
| 13:52.24 | carols | then maybe we'll see you at the summit :-) |
| 13:52.38 | Arthur_D | not me at least, I won't be a mentor |
| 13:52.45 | carols | or an org admin either? |
| 13:53.06 | kai | Arthur_D: I usually admin |
| 13:53.33 | Arthur_D | well I suppose I might be the admin, but not quite sure still to be honest |
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| 13:54.08 | carols | Arthur_D: well, fair enough. if you're not going to participate in gsoc at all, then you can't attend. but if you org admin or mentor this year, you're just as qualified as the rest of the mentors or org admins :-) |
| 13:54.35 | Arthur_D | but anyway, I doubt I could go in any case; would have to fly over from Norway and that would be too expensive for me |
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| 13:55.05 | Arthur_D | same for the other mentors of the org I'm in |
| 13:55.07 | kai | Arthur_D: actually you get a travel stipend of up to $1000 per mentor |
| 13:55.14 | Arthur_D | not bad |
| 13:55.34 | kai | and as your org also gets $500 per student mentored, you should have some funds for sending two people |
| 13:55.52 | kai | worldforge is all-european, and we usually manage |
| 13:55.53 | Arthur_D | then it might be an option indeed :) |
| 13:56.17 | kai | some orgs decide that they pass on the $500 to the mentors, but some orgs don't |
| 13:56.27 | kai | usually we try to offset other costs first |
| 13:56.57 | Arthur_D | right, actually those $500 may come in handy for other things |
| 13:57.29 | Arthur_D | anyway, we'll have to see; we still need to have a successful GSoC |
| 13:57.57 | kai | sure |
| 13:58.37 | darnir | kai: You're not a Google employee? |
| 13:58.46 | kai | nope |
| 13:58.55 | darnir | I always figured you were a Googler like carols |
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| 13:59.35 | kai | no. all the googlers in here have ops (provided they log in from work), but not all ops are googlers |
| 13:59.50 | Arthur_D | hmmm, Worldforge... need to look that up ;) |
| 14:00.08 | Arthur_D | right, the MMO |
| 14:00.45 | Arthur_D | or rather, the framework, according to the about page |
| 14:00.56 | kai | right :) |
| 14:01.28 | Arthur_D | any GSoC pages we can have a look at and learn from? |
| 14:02.09 | kai | I'm happy to link to ours, but I think the KDE folks usually have an even better page |
| 14:02.36 | kai | http://community.kde.org/GSoC/2013/Ideas |
| 14:02.43 | Arthur_D | sure, but your org is a game as well, and much smaller |
| 14:02.49 | Arthur_D | than the KDE org |
| 14:02.55 | Arthur_D | easier to relate ;) |
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| 14:03.57 | kai | http://wiki.worldforge.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code |
| 14:04.31 | Arthur_D | wooow it's a massive page |
| 14:04.56 | kai | and it's not yet fully up to date |
| 14:05.06 | kai | sighs and goes to look for his pointy stick again |
| 14:05.47 | kai | Arthur_D: for the last year, we cooperated with ryzom and the CEGUI gui library for OGRE |
| 14:05.51 | carols | good luck with pointy-sticking, kai |
| 14:06.23 | kai | sfb: ping with a pointy stick? |
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| 14:06.56 | carols | right, like that's going to get a response. |
| 14:07.01 | carols | :-P |
| 14:07.07 | Arthur_D | even with all the work gone into our GSoC docs I don't think we have something quite comparable :| |
| 14:07.29 | kai | you still have a week |
| 14:07.45 | Arthur_D | true |
| 14:08.15 | carols | Arthur_D: you can look at the home pages for all the orgs that participated in gsoc last year. their ideas pages are linked off their home pages. |
| 14:08.33 | carols | there are a *lot* of different kinds, different formatting, different organization, etc. |
| 14:08.35 | Arthur_D | yeah, we have collected some links and looked at them |
| 14:08.48 | carols | i look at ~500 a year, so i'm quite familiar with the variety :-) |
| 14:09.24 | Arthur_D | wow :) |
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| 14:10.16 | Arthur_D | dunno if we could ask for comments on our page now, or if that would somehow make it more difficult for you to claim being unbiased, or whatever |
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| 14:11.10 | JordiGH | Arthur_D: url plz |
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| 14:11.41 | Arthur_D | http://supertuxkart.sourceforge.net/GSOC_overview and http://supertuxkart.sourceforge.net/GSoC_ideas |
| 14:11.50 | JordiGH | Ooh, supertuxkart! |
| 14:12.14 | Arthur_D | yep, first time we attempt to participate in GSoC so we're quite excited :) |
| 14:12.17 | JordiGH | Arthur_D: Looks good in structure, but sparse. |
| 14:12.33 | JordiGH | You should have more ideas. |
| 14:13.02 | Arthur_D | yeah, that's something we've been thinking of |
| 14:13.07 | JordiGH | Not that we're any role model since we haven't gotten accepted as an independent org, but this is what (one of) mine looks like right now: http://wiki.octave.org/Summer_of_Code_Project_Ideas |
| 14:13.42 | JordiGH | And I'm currently working on this one, which needs a lot more fleshing out: http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/SummerOfCode/Ideas2013 |
| 14:14.03 | Arthur_D | truth to be told, it's not too easy finding additional ideas that would fit well both within GSoC and the current state of the game |
| 14:14.21 | Arthur_D | but we have definitely had the same thought |
| 14:14.22 | JordiGH | The loyal opposition to Mercurial had this last year: https://github.com/peff/git/wiki/SoC-2012-Ideas |
| 14:15.00 | JordiGH | Arthur_D: Ask everyone for ideas. That's what I did: http://octave.1599824.n4.nabble.com/More-summer-of-code-ideas-needed-td4650945.html |
| 14:16.14 | Arthur_D | thanks for the input, appreciated :) |
| 14:16.25 | Arthur_D | and we certainly welcome more ;) |
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| 14:22.08 | Arthur_D | another thing I've been wondering is how many projects are roughly accepted for GSoC? |
| 14:22.19 | carols | Arthur_D: by projects you mean organizations? |
| 14:22.25 | Arthur_D | yes |
| 14:22.26 | carols | or by projects you mean student projects? |
| 14:22.33 | Arthur_D | the former |
| 14:22.34 | carols | last year we accepted 180 organizations. |
| 14:22.37 | carols | the year before 175. |
| 14:22.41 | carols | the year before that 175. |
| 14:22.45 | carols | the year before that 150. |
| 14:22.49 | carols | does that help? |
| 14:23.04 | JordiGH | Do you have a fixed number of org slots? Those look like suspiciously round numbers. |
| 14:23.06 | Arthur_D | indeed, thanks! |
| 14:23.08 | Arthur_D | and roughly how many applies each year? |
| 14:23.23 | carols | JordiGH: we have a fixed budget. so yes, that translated to a fixed number of org slots roughly. |
| 14:23.43 | carols | Arthur_D: eh, 400ish? we post it in our blog post each year, i'd need to check them to get you exact numbers. |
| 14:24.03 | Arthur_D | don't worry about exact numbers |
| 14:24.07 | carols | ok. |
| 14:24.07 | Arthur_D | thanks again :) |
| 14:24.09 | carols | i won't then. |
| 14:24.12 | carols | you're welcome. |
| 14:24.30 | Arthur_D | I was just interested in knowing if we are a drop in a bucket or if there's a fairly reasonable chance of getting accepted |
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| 14:24.54 | carols | Arthur_D: the chance of getting accepted is largely decided by the quality of your application and your ideas page. |
| 14:25.06 | Arthur_D | of course |
| 14:25.18 | carols | we do make a lot of hard choices every year, though. |
| 14:25.19 | kai | and how much you don't complain about the t-shirt ;) |
| 14:25.30 | carols | and every year the most painful part of my job is the rejection IRC meeting. |
| 14:25.33 | JordiGH | carols: Do you look at stuff like how active the project is, how many people are involved, what the mailing list atmosphere is like? |
| 14:25.41 | carols | JordiGH: yes, all of that. |
| 14:25.47 | carols | that's why it takes a week. |
| 14:25.59 | carols | i cry a little inside during that week every year. |
| 14:26.31 | Arthur_D | somehow this doesn't make me all that confident we'll make it, unfortunately :( |
| 14:26.52 | carols | Arthur_D: you should talk to the org admin for Sage. |
| 14:26.58 | carols | they applied 7 times before being accepted. |
| 14:27.04 | carols | they just kept trying. |
| 14:27.08 | carols | and last year was their first year. |
| 14:27.09 | JordiGH | Arthur_D: Why, are y'all twits in your mailing list? |
| 14:27.24 | JordiGH | Arthur_D ;-) |
| 14:27.26 | carols | JordiGH: "twits"? there's no reason to be disrespectful. |
| 14:27.47 | JordiGH | Sorry, I was trying to be funny. |
| 14:27.48 | kai | I think the parameters are more obvious and easier to control than for scientific grant applications |
| 14:27.59 | kai | speaking from my academic ivory tower :) |
| 14:28.13 | JordiGH | kai: The Sage guys are used to doing grant applications. |
| 14:28.20 | Arthur_D | JordiGH: not at all, but we're a small organization and there are lots of other projects around that probably looks more useful than ours |
| 14:28.30 | kai | see, 1 in 7 is a pretty good rate ;) |
| 14:28.54 | JordiGH | Arthur_D: "Useful" doesn't have much to do with it. We get lots of gaming orgs every year. At the mentor summit, we hold tournaments. :-) |
| 14:29.07 | JordiGH | had a lot of fun playing dev versions of Hedgewars and Wesnoth in 2011. |
| 14:29.19 | carols | Arthur_D: we try to find a very wide range of projects for the students to choose from. |
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| 14:29.29 | carols | so "useful" isn't really a consideration so much. |
| 14:30.00 | JordiGH | Supertuxkart also has the distinct honour of being one of the few places to host Gown. |
| 14:30.08 | JordiGH | Or is it Penny? |
| 14:30.28 | Arthur_D | used to be Gown, then Penny, now none of them |
| 14:30.42 | JordiGH | Aw, what happened to her? |
| 14:31.02 | JordiGH | I liked Gown. |
| 14:31.29 | Arthur_D | well the model wasn't very good, and also she's not a mascot for any project AFAIK |
| 14:32.02 | Arthur_D | so when we got more high-quality karts she was replaced |
| 14:32.09 | JordiGH | Alas poor Penny. |
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| 14:32.30 | JordiGH | Linuxchix have a penguinish mascot... |
| 14:33.31 | Arthur_D | we do have two, maybe three, female mascots though |
| 14:34.09 | Arthur_D | of course with mascots that stuff isn't really important |
| 14:35.00 | JordiGH | Anyways, I wish you luck. I look forward to a Supertuxkart tournament at the mentor summit. |
| 14:35.15 | Arthur_D | thanks :) |
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| 14:36.11 | Arthur_D | I do hope we get in, since we really want to get more developers on board, and we have some well qualified people mentoring as well so it should be a win-win |
| 14:36.33 | JordiGH | Yes, sharpen the saw, think outside the box, and be proactive! |
| 14:36.42 | stefanha | :) |
| 14:36.44 | kai | bingo! |
| 14:41.05 | Arthur_D | carols: when you mentioned Sage you meant the FOSS mathematics software I presume? |
| 14:41.19 | carols | Arthur_D: indeed i did. |
| 14:41.44 | Arthur_D | right, had to be sure ;) |
| 14:43.00 | JordiGH | They're a fun bunch. I've played go with them. |
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| 14:45.21 | sfb | kai: Ouch. |
| 14:45.57 | JordiGH | laaaaaaag |
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| 14:50.15 | carols | serves some cookies and tea |
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| 14:50.59 | Arthur_D | thanks carols and tries to relax |
| 14:51.22 | Arthur_D | phew... so much to ponder |
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| 14:52.28 | Arthur_D | to add on top of that, I was reading about licenses last night |
| 14:52.41 | JordiGH | Ooh, let's have a license debate. |
| 14:52.47 | JordiGH | Those always attract a crowd. |
| 14:52.50 | JordiGH | is not serious... |
| 14:53.06 | Arthur_D | good ;) |
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| 14:54.08 | sfb | haha |
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| 14:57.15 | Arthur_D | but at least we can agree that licenses are a cause of massive brain-hurt ;) |
| 14:58.18 | MatthewWilkes | They're a major cause of "IANAL but…" |
| 14:58.22 | MatthewWilkes | which is really annoying |
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| 14:59.13 | Arthur_D | sure, which is why I've considered contacting FSF or someone else that should have more understanding than random folks on IRC |
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| 15:00.53 | carols | Arthur_D: a good choice. |
| 15:01.09 | Arthur_D | can't take it as strict legal advice, but it should be more assuring at least |
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| 15:01.43 | Arthur_D | or reassuring, whatever |
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| 15:01.49 | rihnapstor | hello |
| 15:01.57 | Arthur_D | hi |
| 15:02.02 | koda | Arthur_D, you contacted the FSF? please shar their reply :) |
| 15:03.03 | carols | hi rihnapstor |
| 15:03.18 | Arthur_D | koda: not yet, but I will do so if I do :) |
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| 15:08.46 | JordiGH | Arthur_D: licensing@fsf.org |
| 15:09.34 | Arthur_D | JordiGH: thanks, but at the moment it's not a real concern, just a possibility that I may need to contact them |
| 15:09.47 | JordiGH | is intensely curious. |
| 15:09.59 | Arthur_D | :P |
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| 15:11.01 | JordiGH | Oh, you tease me so. |
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| 15:11.43 | Arthur_D | sure, but you know, not really the appropriate channel for such a discussion |
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| 18:12.42 | blackjack69 | any guesses for participating organisations this year?? |
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| 18:14.24 | Arthur_D | participating or applying orgs? |
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| 18:14.52 | blackjack69 | participating |
| 18:15.10 | Arthur_D | KDE ;) |
| 18:15.37 | blackjack69 | i have ho idea about KDE development environment :p |
| 18:15.56 | blackjack69 | i hope there are some php projects |
| 18:16.07 | JordiGH | "KDE development environment" almost sounds like "ATM machine" or "PIN number". |
| 18:16.18 | Arthur_D | I would at least be surprised if no KDE projects are accepted |
| 18:16.22 | JordiGH | K desktop environment development environment. |
| 18:17.33 | blackjack69 | have you participated before?? |
| 18:18.09 | Arthur_D | you? |
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| 18:19.10 | blackjack69 | nope |
| 18:19.51 | blackjack69 | i am new to IRC too.. how do i mention the person i m talking to |
| 18:20.26 | Catfish_Man | blackjack69: you just mention them |
| 18:20.39 | blackjack69 | how do i mention them??? |
| 18:20.45 | Catfish_Man | do you know what mention means? |
| 18:20.48 | Catfish_Man | in english? |
| 18:21.04 | blackjack69 | Catfishyes |
| 18:21.07 | blackjack69 | yes |
| 18:21.11 | Catfish_Man | just type their nick |
| 18:21.18 | blackjack69 | okay.. |
| 18:21.28 | Catfish_Man | most irc clients make it really convenient by auto completing partial nicks when you press tab |
| 18:21.38 | blackjack69 | Catfish_Man: okay.. i thought there would be some automated way |
| 18:22.00 | Catfish_Man | automated conversation threading is likely an AI-hard problem |
| 18:22.01 | blackjack69 | oh yes.. tab works .. thanks a lot .. Catfish_Man |
| 18:22.12 | Catfish_Man | if you can figure it out, I suggest using it for your phd topic ;D |
| 18:22.47 | blackjack69 | Catfish_Man: haha.. |
| 18:23.05 | Catfish_Man | I'm serious :) I spent quite a while thinking about this problem and prototyping various approaches |
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| 18:23.22 | blackjack69 | Catfish_Man: you came up wid anything |
| 18:23.50 | blackjack69 | Catfish_Man: for this topic i would have to understand how the irc server is setup and all the details of clients.. |
| 18:24.17 | Catfish_Man | blackjack69: no, not at all. You would need to understand how to infer meaning from natural language sentences to determine who the implied subject and object are |
| 18:24.33 | Catfish_Man | I found a few helpful UI cues, but nothing dramatically useful |
| 18:24.46 | blackjack69 | Catfish_Man: but it's a nice topic.. cause mozilla must be participating in gsoc.. and chat zilla needs this functionality |
| 18:26.28 | blackjack69 | Catfish_Man: have you ever participated?? |
| 18:26.41 | Catfish_Man | blackjack69: I was a mentor for Adium in 2006, 2007, and 2008 |
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| 18:27.32 | blackjack69 | Catfish_Man: great :) |
| 18:28.30 | blackjack69 | Catfish_Man: in what language has be Adium written?? |
| 18:28.35 | Catfish_Man | Objective-C |
| 18:29.02 | blackjack69 | Catfish_Man: i now realize it's a stupid question because adium is for mac :p |
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| 18:30.34 | blackjack69 | Catfish_Man: i am a little confused if i should learn objective c or i should learn c++ or should i go for web i.e html css and php.. |
| 18:30.52 | Catfish_Man | blackjack69: you should figure out what interests you in life, and how software is applied to that |
| 18:31.00 | Catfish_Man | then figure out what that software is written in, and learn that |
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| 18:31.34 | blackjack69 | Catfish_Man: i have some experience with php.. are there any php projects in gsoc??? |
| 18:31.42 | Catfish_Man | it's likely |
| 18:32.55 | blackjack69 | Catfish_Man: i hope so |
| 18:33.20 | Catfish_Man | as I said though, focusing on the choice of language above all other factors is usually unwise |
| 18:33.33 | Catfish_Man | it's like picking a book without asking what it's about |
| 18:34.34 | Catfish_Man | anyway, lunchtime for me |
| 18:35.02 | blast007 | blackjack69: you can look at last year's organizations to get an idea about stuff: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2012 |
| 18:35.37 | blackjack69 | Catfish_Man: Thanx anyway |
| 18:36.01 | blackjack69 | blast007: thnx a lot |
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| 19:22.22 | JordiGH | Is there a canonical link to explain to people what "mentoring" means? I've got some mentors who are shy because they think that they have to be complete experts in everything about the project or the problem, and I want to attract them by saying that asking around other project members for help is ok. |
| 19:23.24 | dhaun | JordiGH: would this help? http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCMentoring/what-makes-a-good-mentor/ |
| 19:25.29 | JordiGH | dhaun: Yes, thanks Dirk. |
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| 21:03.12 | banas | Hi folks. I was looking at applying for GSoC this year. Any advice? :) |
| 21:03.22 | banas | I am new to real world programming. |
| 21:03.37 | banas | I've programmed in Python and C++. |
| 21:04.08 | Catfish_Man | banas: get involved early, get involved in something that you actually care about |
| 21:05.06 | banas | I have been in touch with a potential mentor from Fedora, asking her about a project I've found interesting. I haven't coded much yet, but I am just getting to know more. Is it too late? |
| 21:05.15 | banas | ^ Catfish_Man |
| 21:05.41 | Catfish_Man | certainly not too late. I would grab the relevant code and find some small bug to work on soon though |
| 21:05.51 | Catfish_Man | the only way to really tell if you're up to the task is to try it |
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| 21:07.59 | banas | Catfish_Man: Okay :) I have also been reading a lot about Mozilla's automation team. I have written few trivial pieces of code too, and have been in touch with prospective mentors. Though I understand it's not a good idea to keep more than one project in mind, is it a good idea to stay in touch with two parties, contribute and make good associatios with the mentors? |
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| 21:08.22 | Catfish_Man | banas: other than possibly overworking, I see no downsides |
| 21:10.35 | banas | Catfish_Man: That's great then :) I have another question. Suppose I make a patch/bugfix in an organisations project, but have not discussed anything GSoc specific with the organisation's mentors. Is it too bad to start asking them more about the project around when the application period starts? |
| 21:11.23 | Catfish_Man | I don't see why it would be. That just means they already know you, and know that you can be useful, ahead of time :) |
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| 21:12.58 | banas | Yeah! Then I guess I just have to focus on making patches for now :) Thanks a lot Catfish_Man! |
| 21:13.05 | Catfish_Man | enjoy |
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| 21:26.20 | fly | hi all |
| 21:26.32 | fly | anyone who could help us? |
| 21:27.37 | DeNiS_M | in what? |
| 21:29.19 | fly | how to find the "possible projects"for various organizations |
| 21:29.30 | fly | projects that they would love to have |
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| 21:30.27 | fly | like there are projects where there are posts about "feature requests" |
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| 21:30.52 | DeNiS_M | well every org has an idea list |
| 21:30.59 | fly | where can i find feature requests for various GSOC participating organizations? |
| 21:31.25 | DeNiS_M | you have to find the org you are interested in applying |
| 21:31.25 | fly | Where are my manners.. :P Thanks Denis :) |
| 21:31.43 | DeNiS_M | and then check the idea list |
| 21:31.44 | fly | ok, but those ideas are totally vague |
| 21:31.49 | DeNiS_M | you are welcome |
| 21:32.02 | anth_x | once orgs are accepted, a list is published which includes all their ideas pages. |
| 21:32.12 | anth_x | i don't believe there's anything centralized before then. |
| 21:32.24 | gevaerts | Indeed there isn't |
| 21:33.08 | fly | ok.. so once that ideas sheet is out we can pick up one from them.. |
| 21:33.25 | fly | but then comes the part of providing abstract.. |
| 21:34.31 | fly | there is the basic abstract that is provided by the organizations.. |
| 21:34.33 | fly | right? |
| 21:35.14 | fly | so one of my queries.. how do i prepare a good abstract draft? |
| 21:35.17 | DeNiS_M | i think you have to get familiar with the software first |
| 21:35.36 | DeNiS_M | and then the ideas might not seem so abstract |
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| 21:37.00 | fly | ok.. |
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| 21:37.15 | fly | any suggestions for a python programmer? |
| 21:37.33 | fly | what kind of projects should i look for? |
| 21:37.40 | fly | and in what organizations? |
| 21:38.51 | DeNiS_M | you can have a look at the previous year's organization and search about python programming |
| 21:42.27 | fly | link please.. |
| 21:42.57 | DeNiS_M | http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2012 |
| 21:43.39 | fly | thanks Denis, Be back in minutes.. :) |
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| 21:47.29 | gevaerts | mwilkes|away: are you in London this week by any chance? |
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| 21:55.03 | gevaerts | mwilkes|away: if you are, some of the rockbox folk are meeting on Friday |
| 21:55.29 | gevaerts | (not scorche) |
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| 22:06.36 | scorche|sh | =( |
| 22:07.04 | gevaerts | scorche|sh: you're welcome too, you know :) |
| 22:07.28 | scorche|sh | gevaerts: just as you are welcome to buy me a flight out there ;) |
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| 22:08.16 | gevaerts | I'll think about it :) |
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| 22:14.44 | ablegreen | i looked at the gsoc 2012 list of mentor organizations and unfortunately i've used only some of the software on that list. could gsoc still be for me? |
| 22:15.20 | Catfish_Man | ablegreen: if you can find something that you're both interested in, and capable of working on, then srue |
| 22:15.22 | Catfish_Man | *sure |
| 22:15.56 | ablegreen | hm okay. i looked at some of the suggested ideas at gsoc 2012 and i have no idea what they're about even after reading the description. is this normal? |
| 22:16.31 | Catfish_Man | that would certainly be an indication to not go for those tasks, at least |
| 22:17.13 | scorche|sh | ablegreen: the best thing you can do is to go to the org(s) you are considering working for and talking with them about the tasks, though yeah - it isnt a good idea to consider something you have no idea at all about |
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| 22:17.49 | ablegreen | well i do know some of the terms in the ideas but i feel like i need a bigger picture. if that makes any sense |
| 22:18.17 | scorche|sh | then ask the org |
| 22:18.46 | badlogic1 | as an org, are we supposed to help the student with the application directly, or just answer questions and not looking at their application before the fact? |
| 22:19.09 | badlogic1 | *before the fact == before they submit the application to gsoc |
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| 22:20.15 | Catfish_Man | badlogic1: the purpose of the application is to help you decide which student to pick, so keep that in mind. If someone had a terrible proposal, and you fixed it for them, and then your organization picked them based on it, that would probably not be productive |
| 22:20.46 | badlogic1 | that would have been my fear, helping the student to much and not being able to properly assess their skills |
| 22:20.50 | badlogic1 | thanks for the info |
| 22:21.27 | Catfish_Man | badlogic1: on the other hand, helping a capable student come up to speed with what your organization expects and how your community works doesn't seem particularly problematic |
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| 22:32.29 | rhdoenges | I'm a month too young to participate as a student :( are there any alternatives to summer of code for younger stuents? |
| 22:33.18 | badlogic1 | Catfish_Man: we hope our gsoc material and the good souls on the forums/irc/github will help with that aspect. i guess answering technical/community/organization questions is fine, giving a complete outline for the application is not. |
| 22:33.37 | badlogic1 | and by outline i mean things like a concrete timetable/milestones etc. |
| 22:33.48 | Catfish_Man | badlogic1: basically. I would view it a little bit like helping someone with their homework without preventing them from learning I guess? |
| 22:33.58 | badlogic1 | that sounds about right |
| 22:34.06 | Catfish_Man | rhdoenges: https://developers.google.com/open-source/gci/2012/ |
| 22:34.11 | badlogic1 | i guess part of demonstrating your skill as a student is being able to write a good proposal |
| 22:34.32 | badlogic1 | wished universities would try to teach such skills as well |
| 22:34.37 | badlogic1 | some do, most don't |
| 22:34.50 | Catfish_Man | badlogic1: in the same sense that part of being a productive and useful programmer is being able to communicate with your team/management/community/etc... |
| 22:35.00 | badlogic1 | agreed |
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| 22:40.03 | rhdoenges | Catfish_Man: that looks interesting, thanks. it's a bummer I can't participate. |
| 22:40.12 | rhdoenges | (in gsoc, not code-in) |
| 22:40.30 | Catfish_Man | yeah. Employment law is byzantine and often problematic :/ |
| 22:41.08 | gevaerts | rhdoenges: some organisations have their own gsoc-like programme. They won't all have the same rules or cut-off dates |
| 22:41.53 | afahim | rhdoenges: i know european space agency has a summer of code modeled along the lines of gsoc |
| 22:42.32 | afahim | dunny of you can still apply |
| 22:42.38 | rhdoenges | haha summer of code In Space! |
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| 22:43.15 | rhdoenges | I think I will look for an internship instead. I would like to make some money this summer. |
| 22:43.44 | ablegreen | i believe you're paid if you develop for gosc |
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| 22:43.50 | ablegreen | gsoc* |
| 22:43.59 | afahim | yup, paid well if you ask me |
| 22:44.07 | Catfish_Man | ablegreen: rhdoenges can't participate in gsoc, see a few lines earlier |
| 22:44.23 | ablegreen | oh, sorry for not paying attention |
| 22:46.09 | afahim | so where can I find out potential orgs that would be participating in gsoc? apart from the ideas list - are there any mentors here on this channel? |
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| 22:46.58 | Arthur_D | yes |
| 22:47.23 | hiker | Maybe ... if we should get accepted ;) |
| 22:47.37 | Arthur_D | well he was asking for potential orgs ;) |
| 22:48.32 | hiker | And also for mentors |
| 22:48.58 | Arthur_D | you're a potential mentor so that should apply :P |
| 22:50.15 | hiker | One question: as a first time organisation to apply, does it help to have more than one organisation vouch for you? |
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| 22:51.14 | gevaerts | It certainly can't hurt |
| 22:52.16 | hiker | Thanks, then we might try to get more |
| 22:52.23 | afahim | so I guess the best is to start frantically contacting mentors once their proposals are accepted. hopefully most of them hang out on IRC's / Mailinglists :D |
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