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| 00:06.21 | meflin | laurion: the student app limit was reduced from 20->5 |
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| 00:06.58 | meflin | in previous years I use to get all kinds of apps that where not relevant to my org |
| 00:07.04 | meflin | ie spam/trash |
| 00:07.48 | carols | meflin: funny that orgs complained when they got "too many" apps and now they complain they're getting too few :-) |
| 00:07.56 | carols | can't seem to ever make people happy. |
| 00:08.14 | meflin | well I understand well I am never ever happy :) |
| 00:08.23 | carols | fair enough :-) |
| 00:09.04 | meflin | I never complained but we around 1/3rd of apps that where not even slightly relevant |
| 00:09.12 | hiker | My impression from the email list was that most orgs actually were quiet happy about that, except one or two who had not enough or none at all. |
| 00:09.19 | meflin | I've not seen any of those this year .. other then the mentor app :) |
| 00:09.40 | carols | hiker: that's their own fault :-) |
| 00:10.20 | meflin | now all those apps where multi-org ... its easy to see how 1 student can make proposals to the same org |
| 00:10.30 | meflin | how 1 student can bond with 20 orgs .... |
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| 00:11.14 | hiker | I expected (based on other orgs I've talked to) a lot of spam, but so far got nothing really bad |
| 00:11.24 | meflin | its a new season :) |
| 00:12.29 | meflin | in the past I used to get the most bizarre things that used to have nothing to do with my org even if you mis-understood it |
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| 00:13.44 | hiker | I had one person trying to apply as mentor with a totally incomprehensive and unrelated idea |
| 00:14.09 | meflin | I had that this year as well .. student app as a mentor .. many orgs did |
| 00:14.51 | hiker | I think it was actually a mentoring idea - he told me that he is fluent in 5 languages including English ... I just couldn't understand his version of English ;) |
| 00:15.37 | meflin | oh well the one I got and also was discussed here was a student proposal to many orgs as a mentor request |
| 00:16.06 | meflin | also its a bad bad bad idea to take on mentors you do not know ( unless you are umbrella - ing ) |
| 00:16.30 | hiker | I certainly never even considered it for a split seconds |
| 00:17.36 | meflin | I've umbrella'd before and I think I left grill marks even with TOP MEN recomends |
| 00:19.51 | meflin | I'm probably waxing philosophical |
| 00:20.10 | meflin | its easy to take on the slot its hard to make sure it all works out |
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| 00:38.25 | Skillfulz | The organization template says I need "Deliverables." Description: "Provide a user-level summary of the final output or results of your project. How does it integrate in Blender, and how does it cooperate with the rest of Blender's features? Note that end-user documentation should be one of the deliverables as well." |
| 00:38.51 | Skillfulz | I'm not sure I fully understand what they wnt? |
| 00:38.54 | Skillfulz | want* |
| 00:39.29 | meflin | you could be better off asking blender what the mean |
| 00:39.49 | Skillfulz | Ture |
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| 00:41.59 | meem | My bet is that they want to know what the results of the project are going to be (ie, how does your project benefit Blender). |
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| 04:17.55 | cruxr | can the proposal be edited on melange after the deadline? |
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| 04:18.12 | Naman22 | cruxr, nope |
| 04:18.21 | cruxr | ok |
| 04:19.16 | ojwb | cruxr: you can still make comments |
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| 04:20.19 | ojwb | though after the deadline the org will be working through the proposals, so you will make less difference as time goes on |
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| 05:05.24 | Mudit | hey i was interested in doing a R project for gsoc 2013 |
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| 05:05.59 | Mudit | can anyone help me with the Meucci project? |
| 05:07.40 | Mudit | just wanted to know the kind of functionalities that can be implemented in the Mecci package? |
| 05:07.59 | Mudit | *Meucci |
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| 06:54.25 | baba | when i am submitting my gsoc applications the fonts are not properly set. |
| 06:57.31 | stefanha | baba: I think this has come up several times recently. Just use plain text? |
| 06:57.46 | baba | stefanha: yeah i am using plain text |
| 06:58.10 | stefanha | baba: great |
| 06:58.30 | baba | but still when i submit it the font types become same throught. |
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| 06:58.56 | baba | the main keywords in the applications are not longer bold. they are just the same as the content fonts |
| 06:59.04 | stefanha | baba: "plain text" means no fonts or formatting |
| 06:59.23 | baba | stefanha: ok than my bad |
| 07:00.01 | stefanha | I'm suggesting you drop the formatting and don't worry about it. |
| 07:00.14 | stefanha | If Melange provides a textarea with no rich text area then you cannot have fonts. |
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| 07:01.11 | baba | stefanha: but in the top most section where the we have to write the proposals there is "font family" and "paragraph" listed as by default |
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| 07:02.13 | stefanha | baba: Well you can play with it and let #melange know about any bugs you are experiencing |
| 07:02.28 | baba | stefanha: ok |
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| 07:05.06 | baba | how will i know that my proposal was successfully submitted ? |
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| 07:35.33 | pratnala | teoli: Hi |
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| 07:41.35 | Sumit | how to add images to my proposal? |
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| 07:50.46 | chrismed | Sumit: a lot of people have same problem as yours; I think that you can link to an image hosted outside melange |
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| 08:22.40 | Sumit | Thanks |
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| 08:32.32 | Sumit | can anyone suggest the site for hosting photos? |
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| 08:49.06 | olly | Sumit: someone said they'd used imgur, but I've never tried it myself |
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| 08:52.06 | Sumit | Thanks |
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| 10:14.25 | sn6uv | I applied to GSOC as a mentor, but the organization was rejected. The web form won't let me apply as a student for another organization. Is there any way around this is do I need to create a new account? |
| 10:14.45 | sn6uv | Error message: You cannot register as a student since you are already a mentor or organization administrator in Google Summer of Code 2013. |
| 10:16.01 | MatthewWilkes | sn6uv: Email the melange list and ask them to remove your mentor profile |
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| 10:19.25 | sn6uv | MatthewWilkes: cheers |
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| 10:22.15 | MatthewWilkes | I'd really like it if people would submit their applications :( |
| 10:22.22 | MatthewWilkes | Such a short list so far this year |
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| 10:25.46 | olly | MatthewWilkes: what's the quality like? |
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| 10:34.59 | MatthewWilkes | olly: 1 very good, 1 looks okay, 1 awful |
| 10:35.25 | David_Honeynet | MatthewWilkes: how does that compare to previous years with <48 hours to go? |
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| 10:36.00 | olly | MatthewWilkes: only 3 proposals? |
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| 10:40.06 | MatthewWilkes | olly: Yep :( |
| 10:40.13 | MatthewWilkes | David_Honeynet: Usually about 10 |
| 10:40.27 | MatthewWilkes | We've got a few who are emailing, but they haven't submitted yet |
| 10:40.38 | MatthewWilkes | Nobody seems to realise they can edit proposals |
| 10:40.39 | olly | wow, i thought the complaints were mostly the same we seem to get most years |
| 10:40.46 | olly | less some junk |
| 10:41.16 | olly | perhaps the change in timing hasn't worked well |
| 10:41.26 | MatthewWilkes | maybe |
| 10:41.38 | MatthewWilkes | At this stage, we're probably looking to ask for 1 or 2 slots |
| 10:41.40 | olly | i guess if you're looking at an internship as an alternative, the later dates are a problem |
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| 11:20.50 | David_Honeynet | MatthewWilkes: yeah, fewer proposals so far this year for us too, but seems to be a general trend |
| 11:20.54 | David_Honeynet | will have to see how things look at 19:00 tomorrow |
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| 11:21.22 | David_Honeynet | may work out well for the new orgs though ;-) |
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| 11:26.20 | vernon | Hello! My mentor said that I have to send the final application through the google melange site. The problem is I can't find any option to do that. Help me please :) |
| 11:26.48 | MatthewWilkes | vernon: http://en.flossmanuals.net/melange/students-students-application-phase/ |
| 11:27.11 | vernon | thanks a lot! |
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| 12:32.23 | BadDesign | Do I need to be a currently enrolled student to participate in GSOC? |
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| 12:33.55 | jojva | BadDesign, as of 3rf of May i think |
| 12:35.12 | BadDesign | No, I'm asking if I need to be an enrolled student at a univerisity in order to apply at GSOC... I'm currently not a student but I'm going to enroll at a uni in 2 months |
| 12:36.00 | kai | BadDesign: that should be covered in the faq |
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| 12:36.11 | kai | !eligible | BadDesign |
| 12:36.11 | gsocbot | BadDesign: "eligible" is http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2012/faqs#age_restrictions |
| 12:36.34 | roonyH | !faq |
| 12:36.34 | gsocbot | roonyH: "faq" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2013/help_page |
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| 12:38.07 | kai | http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2012/faqs#middle <-- there, actually |
| 12:38.10 | BadDesign | Thanks, I thought there was a FAQ for this but was too lazy to search for it :P |
| 12:38.42 | kai | that's what I figured.. |
| 12:39.40 | aghisla | as a selection step for students' projects, organisations could ask to find a FAQ :D |
| 12:41.00 | kai | aghisla: actually the normal qualification task works fine. people wo can't find the faq usually don't realize they need to do the qualification task. solved |
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| 12:41.35 | aghisla | that's clever :) |
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| 12:54.05 | olly | !learn eligible as http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2013/help_page#1._Are_there_any_age_restrictions_on |
| 12:54.06 | gsocbot | olly: "eligible" is (#1) http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2012/faqs#age_restrictions, or (#2) http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2013/help_page#1._Are_there_any_age_restrictions_on |
| 12:54.18 | olly | gsocbot: forget eligible #1 |
| 12:54.18 | gsocbot | olly: Error: There is no such factoid. |
| 12:54.21 | olly | gsocbot: forget eligible 1 |
| 12:54.21 | gsocbot | olly: "eligible" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2013/help_page#1._Are_there_any_age_restrictions_on |
| 12:54.25 | olly | (wrong year) |
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| 13:08.48 | ankitmahato | !logs |
| 13:08.49 | gsocbot | ankitmahato: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
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| 13:51.34 | lasconic | Hi there |
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| 13:52.06 | lasconic | is there any strong deadline for orgs to have the requested slots? |
| 13:52.13 | lasconic | the timeline says may 6 |
| 13:52.18 | Uli- | may 6 24:00 utc |
| 13:52.21 | lasconic | but there is no hour |
| 13:52.21 | lasconic | ok |
| 13:52.30 | Uli- | see carol's mail to the list |
| 13:52.32 | lasconic | Uli-: thank you ! |
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| 13:54.09 | Uli- | but now that i'm thinking about it. |
| 13:54.24 | Uli- | did she mean 23:59 may 6 or 00:00 may 6 (24:00 doesn't exist) |
| 13:54.37 | lasconic | Uli-: I was wondering |
| 13:54.41 | lasconic | would be good to add it here http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2013 |
| 13:55.13 | lasconic | 6 wouldn't be included I guess |
| 13:57.11 | Uli- | according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24-hour_clock#Midnight_00:00_and_24:00 it's may 6, end of day |
| 13:59.00 | Uli- | iso 8601 also says 24 is end of day. |
| 13:59.09 | Uli- | so let's assume that's what she meant ;) |
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| 13:59.54 | kai | well leaving people the weekend and monday makes sense |
| 14:00.18 | kai | but getting an idea how many slots you'd want usually works reasonably fast in my experience |
| 14:00.30 | kai | even if you don't know which students to pick yet |
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| 14:00.45 | Uli- | how many proposals do you get? |
| 14:01.27 | kai | not KDE levels, of course |
| 14:01.42 | kai | 20-50, I guess |
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| 14:02.42 | Uli- | i'm already telling our mentors to mark the proposals they are in principle interested in mentoring and will take that as desired number. otherwise 3 days would just be too little time |
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| 14:03.09 | kai | but in the past mentor capacity for the proposals we actually got in was the factor deciding the desired slots |
| 14:03.40 | Uli- | that's why I'm asking to indicate willingness to mentor quite early. |
| 14:04.05 | kai | sure, if your menors only start looking at the proposals after the deadline, it's a bit short |
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| 14:04.13 | kai | deadline as in tomorrow |
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| 14:05.48 | Uli- | might be doable for smaller orgs but not for us, no. |
| 14:06.00 | JordiGH | Hm, we've only received 4 proposals. |
| 14:06.14 | JordiGH | I wonder if all the kids are rushing to hand in their proposals tomorrow or if we're just not very popular. |
| 14:06.22 | Uli- | don't worry. |
| 14:07.05 | Uli- | if you have ever looked at the submission stats for a conference for example you'll know that 90% of the submissions come in on the day of the deadline ;) |
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| 14:07.32 | Uli- | it's a bit better for gsoc but still, the majority comes in in the last 24 hours. |
| 14:07.56 | JordiGH | Well, I think we've already heard from all of the good proposals. |
| 14:08.11 | JordiGH | I haven't seen someone who has already interacted with us but hasn't sent us a proposal. |
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| 14:08.31 | JordiGH | So if we get last-minute proposals, I suspect they'll be spammy. |
| 14:08.51 | Uli- | not necessarily. |
| 14:09.04 | Uli- | in my experience the spammy ones come first |
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| 14:09.23 | JordiGH | Well, the proposal on melange to me seems like a formality. The real proposal is how they interact with us during the application period and after. |
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| 14:09.38 | kai | Uli-: Not sure how it works for you, but I've yet to see a really brilliant proposal come in from someone who hasn't interacted with the org first. |
| 14:09.42 | JordiGH | If they haven't interacted with us so far, I don't really see a proposal. |
| 14:09.56 | Uli- | exactly. but then, the proposal in melange is what gets turned into a project so it has to be there. |
| 14:10.11 | Uli- | kai: i've seen one or two |
| 14:10.18 | kai | and that's for all the years I've done gsoc from the mentor side so far |
| 14:10.23 | Uli- | kai: but they are rare. indeed. |
| 14:11.01 | Uli- | and in our case they get ranked lower than those who interacted with the community beforehand. |
| 14:11.24 | Uli- | because in the end we do not only want excellent code to be written, we want to engage new contributors |
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| 14:11.37 | kai | whereas pretty much all the people we had a reasonable interaction with before they submitted a proposal ended up in the final selection |
| 14:11.49 | Uli- | yep. |
| 14:11.57 | JordiGH | Yeah, we're not getting much value out of GSoC if we just get code and then never hear from the student again. |
| 14:12.21 | JordiGH | Our only goal this year is to get new contributors. The summer project is just an exercise to see if we can attract them to stay with us. |
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| 14:16.44 | _005 | hmmm, well, I feel so unfortunately behind. I only just heard about google summer of code. Seen as organizations are talking about students interacting with them before their submission, does anyone care to state their affliation, and if they'd like some good project submissions? |
| 14:17.41 | Uli- | apache. yes, if it pertains to one of our projects. |
| 14:17.46 | JordiGH | _005: Octave and Mercurial. If you start interacting with us now, you're still in time. |
| 14:19.34 | _005 | JordiGH: What organization are you with? Melange? |
| 14:19.58 | _005 | err, nevermind |
| 14:20.25 | _005 | melange contains proposals, right.... still new to this |
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| 14:20.53 | kai | _005: I'm not saying it's impossible. but the later you start the more effort you need to put in. so get moving ;) |
| 14:21.11 | JordiGH | _005: Melange is Google's platform for tracking GSoC, yes. |
| 14:21.18 | _005 | yeah, I heard about it maybe an hour ago. I'm working on it |
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| 14:22.34 | kai | _005: the way GSoC is run changed a lot since the start, but I wrote my first gsoc proposal in 2005 within 24h because I had pretty much the same problem :) |
| 14:22.53 | josko- | Did you get it kai? :) |
| 14:22.56 | _005 | okay. Well, I do use Mercurial as my version control of choice |
| 14:23.40 | Uli- | not apache svn? than we don't want you ;) |
| 14:23.45 | _005 | lol |
| 14:23.51 | Uli- | just kidding, we even have git nowadays ;) |
| 14:23.57 | kai | josko-: yeah, but I don't think I'd accept my own proposal these days |
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| 14:24.28 | kai | Uli-: there's a few great use cases for SVN that I see, but for code nothing beats a good DVCS these days |
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| 14:25.04 | Uli- | kai: i disagree but i'll leave you to your opinion of you leave me to mine ;) |
| 14:25.13 | kai | Uli-: and I'm saying that as someone who started using SVN before 1.0 was released |
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| 14:25.46 | kai | Uli-: fair enough. :) |
| 14:25.55 | Uli- | and yes, i use both, git and svn |
| 14:26.23 | Uli- | anyway. this is about gsoc |
| 14:26.35 | Uli- | _005: have you decided yet? apache or mercurial? ;) |
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| 14:27.42 | perepujal | _005: as a general rule, look for orgs working on a programming language and area of interest that matches you, find an idea that passions you and develop it to passion others, and keep in mind that most orgs looks for long term contributors rather than 3 month employees |
| 14:27.46 | _005 | Uli-: it wouldn't be fair asking me to choose now. I'd just default to mercurial. I'd have to go through the joys and pains of another version control system |
| 14:28.31 | p_l|omoikane | SVN is painful ;) |
| 14:28.47 | Crystallis | Not particularly. |
| 14:28.56 | kai | I've seen worse ;) |
| 14:29.10 | kai | but I think perepujal got it spot on |
| 14:29.13 | p_l|omoikane | well, it's better than CVS, definitely ;) |
| 14:29.19 | Crystallis | ^ |
| 14:29.26 | Uli- | _005: what perepujal said. in addition, look at what technology, tools or topics interest you and find an org suiting you best |
| 14:29.26 | gevaerts | svn is just as painful as git or mercurial. They're just painful in different areas |
| 14:29.28 | kai | and let's just not start a VCS shootout here |
| 14:29.30 | _005 | perepujal: okay. The programming language + area of interest isn't much a probelm, as I have "decent" (several small projects, two medium 10-15k LOC) expereience in several langauges. It's the idea with passion, and finding a match with an org |
| 14:30.16 | _005 | In order of most to least experience: C++, C#, Java, Python, VB6 (unfortunately) |
| 14:30.22 | Uli- | visual source safe ftw! |
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| 14:31.12 | kai | please.. :) I know I'm guilty for also participating, but let's take the VCS war to /dev/null |
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| 14:31.47 | kai | hm, there's actually a #devnull registered on this network |
| 14:32.11 | _005 | hmmm, well, I'll definately see if I can get some good ideas for HG, and I'll take a look into Octave. Any other suggestions? |
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| 14:33.13 | Uli- | _005: any tools you are using regularily apart from hg? if so look if they participate |
| 14:33.20 | kai | _005: as a first shot, what software do you use, and do you feel passionate about |
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| 14:37.31 | _005 | I'm a bit of a power user, and I like learning new things, so lets see. Tools I use on a regular basis: eclipse, vim, vim-ecplise, LaTeX (with just vim), hamster, (x)ubuntu, GIMP, g++, firefox, pulseaudio, audacity, inkscape (not very often), .... more? |
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| 14:38.13 | _005 | Oh, Libre Office, though less since I stared using LaTeX |
| 14:39.00 | darnir | you could try GIMP or pulseaudio then. They are both participating this year IIRC |
| 14:39.02 | Uli- | openoffice is an apache project and has some nice ideas ;) |
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| 14:39.16 | _005 | also, some stuff that I'd like to be using: Redmine, Jenkins |
| 14:39.36 | _005 | though I haven't really done anything with them past basic setup |
| 14:40.02 | Uli- | the eclipse foundation is also participating |
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| 14:40.56 | _005 | hmmmm, I wonder if GIMP has any image recognition processing capabilities, (ie intergration with OpenCV) |
| 14:41.28 | _005 | I'll be doing a senior design project that's relation over the summer as well. |
| 14:41.34 | _005 | *related. |
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| 14:41.52 | Uli- | if it's not on their ideas list propose it anyway |
| 14:42.31 | reb` | I signed up as a mentor. How do I associate myself with an organization? |
| 14:42.53 | _005 | yeah, it looks like they have a plugin for it, though the facial recognition that I'm working on would be for specific parts of the face, such as eyebrows and such |
| 14:43.12 | Uli- | reb`: go to the org's profile page and click "start a connection" at the top, below the logo |
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| 14:44.08 | Uli- | reb`: correction: it's the start a connection button directly below the "mentors: apply" string ;) |
| 14:45.08 | reb` | Here's the organization's page: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/google/gsoc2013/sbcl |
| 14:45.25 | reb` | I clicked on "Or register as a mentor" and signed up. |
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| 14:45.59 | Uli- | cool. now an org admin has to accept you |
| 14:46.18 | reb` | OK, then nothing more for me to do. Thanks! |
| 14:46.28 | kai | reb`: you might want to tell an org admin |
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| 14:46.57 | kai | because frankly the mails melange sends as a notification this year suck bigtime |
| 14:47.17 | Krystof | oh, it's not just me who thinks that? |
| 14:47.36 | reb` | Krystof ... you might be the admin I need. |
| 14:47.40 | Krystof | well yes |
| 14:47.42 | Krystof | but I can't see you |
| 14:47.49 | Krystof | who are you? |
| 14:48.03 | kai | reb`: do you still have the "start a connection" button on that page? |
| 14:48.50 | reb` | kai: Not on the sbcl page. |
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| 14:50.48 | perepujal | reb: what says http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/dashboard/google/gsoc2013#connections |
| 14:54.31 | reb` | That's my connections page. Clicking the "My Connections" link in the Main Daskboard does not show anything. There's an "Organization" search box. |
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| 14:59.53 | perepujal | reb`: doesn't appears sbcl as needs admin action? |
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| 15:01.34 | Krystof | I don't see any things requiring admin action |
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| 15:04.00 | Veence | Hi all |
| 15:04.15 | Veence | I just stumbled upon Google Summer of Code and it looks awesome. I'm just curious what skill level is required. |
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| 15:08.47 | sunu | !goodenough |
| 15:08.48 | gsocbot | sunu: "goodenough" is Am I good enough to be a student for GSoC? http://www.booki.cc/gsocstudentguide/am-i-good-enough/ |
| 15:09.01 | sunu | Veence: ^^ |
| 15:09.05 | Veence | Thanks |
| 15:09.32 | sunu | yw |
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| 15:13.55 | derdon | it would match my humor if this site would just say "NO!" in massive capital letters. |
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| 15:18.04 | gevaerts | derdon: there would be downsides to that :) |
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| 15:18.23 | Veence | How many organizations should I apply to? |
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| 15:19.05 | Veence | Do you guys have a recommend one or two? or more |
| 15:19.30 | derdon | Veence: not to more than 5. the rest is up to you |
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| 15:20.01 | Veence | Thanks derdon |
| 15:20.26 | Uli- | i wouldn't believe a student that applies to many organizations that he's going to stick around even after the end of the program. but this is our goal. so i think less = better |
| 15:20.26 | Veence | I'm a bit confused, do we have to have an idea or can we just propose to work on the suggested ideas. |
| 15:20.41 | Uli- | both are ok |
| 15:21.04 | Veence | Oh I was just thinking of applying to 2 incase I get turned down. |
| 15:21.24 | Uli- | if you propose your own idea it probably means that you know the project, are involved and that might increase your chances to be accepted |
| 15:22.12 | Veence | So these ideas would be new features to add to the software etc right? |
| 15:22.21 | Uli- | not necessarily. |
| 15:22.38 | aps | Veence, looking the deadline for proposal submission, I don't think you could make a 'good' proposal for more than one org. |
| 15:22.50 | Uli- | it could also be an improvement, a complex refactoring, a test framework, or anything else |
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| 15:24.07 | Uli- | maybe not anything - but a lot of things ;) |
| 15:24.44 | Veence | I see, I wish I found google summer of code earlier |
| 15:24.55 | Veence | I only have a day and a half lol |
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| 15:26.08 | aps | Veence, you can still try :) generally we have to discuss the proposal a few times with probable mentors. |
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| 15:28.07 | \q | is gsoc still open to apply? |
| 15:28.22 | JordiGH | \q: For students, yes. |
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| 15:29.02 | \q | JordiGH: but where is the link for application? https://google-melange.appspot.com/gsoc/org/google/gsoc2013/ogdf i cannot find the 'new proposal' link... |
| 15:29.19 | \q | typo... i can only find the 'new proposal' link |
| 15:29.32 | JordiGH | \q: I can see a "students, register!" link. |
| 15:29.40 | JordiGH | Er, "students: apply!" |
| 15:30.00 | aps-sids | \q, you need to log in first. then click on "submit proposal" |
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| 15:30.45 | \q | JordiGH: i see the 'Submit proposal to OGDF' page, but isn't it for submiting a new proposal instead of applying for one? |
| 15:30.59 | Achillion | Soooo we gonna be coding this summer? |
| 15:30.59 | _005 | Veence: I know how you feel, lol |
| 15:31.01 | JordiGH | lol |
| 15:31.09 | JordiGH | \q: There is no difference between the two things in your disjunction. |
| 15:31.24 | JordiGH | \q: Submitting a new proposal is the same as applying for one. |
| 15:31.42 | _005 | btw, are ideas that seem more experimental than useful "good" ideas? |
| 15:33.07 | \q | JordiGH: thx, i'll look into it |
| 15:33.57 | JordiGH | _005: That's a vague question, so, "maybe". Ask the org. |
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| 15:35.24 | swook | _005: I would think a well defined aim is quite important though it depends on experience |
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| 15:39.02 | Veence | Just had a look at sample proposals |
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| 15:39.13 | Veence | No way I can pull one of these out in a day lol. |
| 15:39.33 | Achillion | points out the two week proposal period |
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| 15:40.36 | Veence | Now that I've found this program, I'll be ready next year! |
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| 15:42.33 | tomprince | Veence: You should start engaging organizations now. |
| 15:42.35 | chro | the deadline is tomorrow at each time in GMT timezone? |
| 15:42.42 | swook | !next |
| 15:42.43 | gsocbot | swook: "next" is May 3 19:00 UTC: Student application deadline. ( Countdown at http://tinyurl.com/cg526v7 ) |
| 15:43.00 | Veence | what do you mean by engaging tomprince |
| 15:43.20 | Veence | Looking at their projects and getting familar with their style? |
| 15:43.22 | tomprince | You should start talking to them, and getting involved. |
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| 15:44.16 | _005 | swook: the aim is relatively well defined, but the value it adds is questionable |
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| 15:45.21 | swook | from what I've seen GSoC idea suggestions tend to be quite practical |
| 15:45.23 | tomprince | !pre-hsoc | Veence |
| 15:45.26 | tomprince | !pre-gsoc | Veence |
| 15:45.27 | gsocbot | Veence: "pre-gsoc" is The best early thing you can do is look at the list of organizations in previous years, pick ones that look interesting to you, and try to get involved as a regular non-gsoc contributor. Try to find something that you're excited about. |
| 15:45.32 | swook | and often tasks someone could do but don't have the time or resources to do |
| 15:46.25 | Veence | thanks for the advice |
| 15:46.27 | Veence | I'll do so |
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| 16:03.25 | tnkhanh_ | hello |
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| 16:04.36 | tnkhanh | hello |
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| 16:06.32 | tnkhanh | hello |
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| 16:08.01 | josko- | Hello |
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| 16:12.40 | zamN | Hi, is there any way to save my application while I am writing it? |
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| 16:12.52 | zamN | er, proposal |
| 16:13.08 | tnkhanh | maybe copy it to a text file? |
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| 16:13.14 | zamN | ah, okay :p |
| 16:13.33 | zamN | The organization cannot judge my application until the application period ends, correct? |
| 16:13.41 | dfighter | zamN why not just submit it, and then edit? |
| 16:13.47 | zamN | that was the plan dfighter |
| 16:13.56 | zamN | I just do not want the org judging an incomplete application |
| 16:14.02 | dfighter | why would they? |
| 16:14.16 | zamN | not sure, just covering my bases |
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| 16:14.20 | dfighter | especially if you mark the incomplete parts |
| 16:15.15 | swook | dfighter: melange may notify org mentors of proposal edits |
| 16:15.15 | darnir | zamN: The org gets a mail when you submit an application, and a subsequent mail everytime you edit it. With a diff. |
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| 16:15.20 | swook | if they have that setting enabled |
| 16:15.29 | dfighter | I know swook |
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| 16:16.37 | swook | dfighter: I mention it because I personally prefer not to ping potential mentors in that way |
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| 16:17.01 | dfighter | swook they should disable notification if they are annoyed :P |
| 16:17.37 | swook | and people should avoid cars when they drive onto the pavement! |
| 16:17.47 | swook | sorry, I don't mean to be rude |
| 16:17.49 | zifeitong | oh my dear, looks like my edit diff mail might flood the orgs. |
| 16:17.53 | swook | but just felt the advice may require a disclaimer |
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| 16:21.13 | dfighter | swook I don't see how that analogy could be possibly right |
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| 16:21.35 | dfighter | editing your proposal is not anyhow illegal |
| 16:21.39 | swook | no it isn't since the emails do not harm and are received by choice |
| 16:21.40 | swook | that too |
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| 16:22.00 | swook | just saying, applicants can never be too careful about accidentally offending orgs/mentors |
| 16:22.16 | dfighter | I don't want to work with an org that gets offended by such things |
| 16:22.17 | swook | I've been more so because I've noticed mentors can sometimes be very judgemental |
| 16:22.24 | swook | that is fair enough |
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| 16:23.06 | dfighter | I mean, really swook |
| 16:23.14 | dfighter | the notifications is for them to see what changed |
| 16:23.22 | dfighter | and they get offended by actually seeing the changes? :D |
| 16:23.43 | \q | there is no information about the organization you apply for: https://google-melange.appspot.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2013/*nick*/*id* |
| 16:24.00 | swook | dfighter: it's not about the actual notification |
| 16:24.11 | \q | one can only see the organization at this page: https://google-melange.appspot.com/gsoc/dashboard/google/gsoc2013#proposals |
| 16:24.12 | swook | more about the applicants not being told notifications might be sent |
| 16:24.17 | swook | since some people like myself, save often |
| 16:24.27 | swook | anyone who has lost work due to network/storage problems will do this |
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| 16:24.46 | dfighter | yea swook |
| 16:25.01 | swook | and this will lead to 'spamming' |
| 16:25.08 | swook | which can feel wrong |
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| 16:25.53 | akif500 | hey...i got a query. does selection of a student idea also depend on no. of students applied for that idea ? |
| 16:27.13 | dfighter | akif500 how would we know? why don't you ask the org you want to apply to? |
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| 16:28.31 | dfighter | swook I don't feel it anyhow wrong, but then it's not like you should save after typing a character. I use Google Docs to edit my application, and only move stuff over to Melange when I feel it's time |
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| 16:29.19 | swook | dfighter: that would be good practise I suppose, but I wouldn't do that if I didn't know about the notifications! |
| 16:29.23 | swook | it's not a big issue anyway |
| 16:29.51 | dfighter | :) |
| 16:30.17 | dfighter | swook to be fair, I started my application long before the application period opened, that's why I am using Google docs |
| 16:30.24 | dfighter | and not melange, primarily |
| 16:30.31 | swook | same here |
| 16:30.51 | swook | my org also wants a Google Doc |
| 16:30.54 | swook | so it works out pretty nicely |
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| 16:31.36 | VirajSinha | hey everyone so by mistake i have applied for the same project twice on melange is there a way to delete a proposal coz withdrawing it doesn't actually delete it |
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| 16:33.18 | dfighter | VirajSinha you can only withdraw |
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| 16:35.06 | sankalp | hello |
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| 16:39.00 | JordiGH | We didn't get any proposals this year that weren't in our ideas list, hm. |
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| 16:41.14 | _005 | well, because I have no open source rap whatsoever, I'm helping people in GIMP chat in a desperate attempt to show my ability / willingness. I'm not sure if it's the best idea, but I suppose it doesn't hurt, right? |
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| 16:43.14 | swook | _005: considering the little time left, improving the proposal may help more |
| 16:43.27 | JordiGH | _005: Gimp is part of this GNU, so you should be aware of this: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html |
| 16:43.51 | JordiGH | _005: And work on the proposal instead, yeah. And start reading their source code. Perhaps even produce a patch by tomorrow. |
| 16:44.01 | kos_tom | hello |
| 16:44.11 | kos_tom | I must be really stupid, but in the Google Melange interface for organizations |
| 16:44.25 | kos_tom | I can't figure out how to mark a given proposal as rejected, or generally speaking change its state. |
| 16:44.42 | JordiGH | kos_tom: I don't think you can do so yet, not until after tomorrow. |
| 16:44.49 | JordiGH | kos_tom: Since the proposal period isn't over. |
| 16:45.03 | kos_tom | oh, ok. |
| 16:45.18 | kos_tom | I've already marked one proposal as "ignored", and I don't see it anymore. |
| 16:45.25 | kos_tom | it was a completely off-topic proposal anyway |
| 16:45.27 | derdon | would seem quite offensive if a student could be rejected before the deadline |
| 16:45.40 | kos_tom | well, we have some proposals that are completely off topic |
| 16:45.41 | derdon | ah, ok. that's something else then |
| 16:45.52 | kos_tom | I'm from the Buildroot project, and one guy proposed a GSoC like "learn how to use Ubuntu" |
| 16:46.08 | JordiGH | Also, I don't know if proposals can be outright rejected. They are simply... not accepted. |
| 16:46.12 | kos_tom | or a guy that proposes "Rolling display using Matrix LEDs" |
| 16:47.15 | _005 | hmm, makes me feel great about my ideas, lol |
| 16:47.17 | JordiGH | lol |
| 16:47.47 | darnir | JordiGH: A counter: http://www.kaybee.org/~kirk/GPL.html |
| 16:48.09 | JordiGH | darnir: That's irrelevant. |
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| 16:48.49 | darnir | I don't think "Learn how to use Ubuntu" would be accepted as a project even if it was sent to Canonical (If they were a participating org. that is) |
| 16:49.40 | _005 | btw, JordiGH, thanks for the link. I had never seen a good explaination on the Free / Open Source arguement. |
| 16:50.21 | tnkhanh | Hi, can I edit my proposal after the deadline? |
| 16:50.26 | tomprince | No. |
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| 16:50.58 | tnkhanh | really? |
| 16:51.25 | JordiGH | _005: Sure thing. |
| 16:51.30 | derdon | that's the sense of a deadline :D |
| 16:51.34 | tomprince | You can add comments. |
| 16:51.38 | derdon | otherwise it wouldn't be a deadline |
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| 16:57.27 | d33tah | hey guys, could somebody please read my proposal and comment on it? ;) |
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| 16:58.29 | d33tah | http://kolos.math.uni.lodz.pl/~d33tah/gsoc-nmap.pdf |
| 16:58.38 | hiddenpearls | carols: I had forward the blog post about meetup to stephanie |
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| 16:58.49 | hiddenpearls | but didn't heard back from her yet |
| 16:58.50 | carols | hiddenpearls: great |
| 16:59.03 | carols | well, we've had about 400 other things going on, so that doesn't surprise me |
| 16:59.26 | hiddenpearls | lol :) I understand |
| 16:59.43 | hiddenpearls | just having a request to take a look on it ;) |
| 17:00.03 | carols | i'm sure she's on it :-) |
| 17:00.09 | hiddenpearls | Thanks |
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| 17:00.11 | carols | yw |
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| 17:01.21 | manugupt1 | and that reminds me I have to complete and send my blog post to you carols :) |
| 17:02.30 | carols | manugupt1: :-) |
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| 17:23.19 | CrowX- | is there a way I could browse other people's project applications on the google-melange page? |
| 17:23.39 | davidfetter | you down with OPP? |
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| 17:24.34 | CrowX- | davidfetter, what do you mean? |
| 17:24.49 | davidfetter | CrowX-, old musical reference |
| 17:24.59 | davidfetter | in your case, Other People's Projects |
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| 17:25.12 | davidfetter | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O.P.P._%28song%29 |
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| 17:37.13 | perepujal | CrowX-: not in melange, but some orgs keep the applicattions public, so you can search them |
| 17:37.31 | deklerkmc | hello |
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| 17:38.25 | CrowX- | perepujal, I was more interested in interesting formats I could use |
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| 17:40.38 | perepujal | some orgs have templates for this... |
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| 17:42.51 | diadara | hey,are there any plans for extending the deadline ? |
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| 17:45.39 | tomprince | No. |
| 17:45.49 | tomprince | The deadline *will not* be extended. |
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| 17:56.17 | gopi | i submited my propost. Can you give feedback? Hello sir/madam, |
| 17:56.18 | gopi | Link : http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2013/gopilearner/1 |
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| 17:57.06 | Uli- | only mentors from the organization you replied to can see that |
| 17:57.13 | Uli- | s/replied/applied/ |
| 17:57.58 | gopi | Ok. thank you sir. |
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| 18:13.18 | sinhayash | hi! |
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| 18:14.29 | sinhayash | carols? |
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| 18:15.43 | sinhayash | online anybody? |
| 18:16.24 | dfighter | sinhayash, no you are the only one, on the entire Interwebs! |
| 18:17.46 | nurupo | dfighter: there are no interwebs if everyone is down :) |
| 18:18.30 | nurupo | must be a horrible thing |
| 18:18.36 | dfighter | nurupo anybody typically refers to organic beings |
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| 18:19.50 | sinhayash | May I know, how to delete comments on my proposal. While editing, I posted my proposal as a comment. |
| 18:20.07 | dfighter | sinhayash you cannot |
| 18:20.55 | sinhayash | If I withdraw and submit again? |
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| 18:21.07 | tomprince | sinhayash: Don't worry about it. |
| 18:22.43 | roonyH | I think I've been flooding my mentor with emails, wasn't aware of the email sent when I update my proposal :( |
| 18:22.50 | dfighter | sinhayash withdrawing doesn't delete the proposal, only marks as withdrawn iirc |
| 18:22.53 | roonyH | will he be mad? |
| 18:23.19 | sinhayash | Ok. A proposal as a comment is really long btw :) |
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| 18:24.05 | tomprince | roonyH: No. |
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| 18:25.17 | roonyH | tomprince thanks, made me feel a little better |
| 18:25.51 | roonyH | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:26.39 | roonyH | will he see a lot of emails from me, making him ignoring important ones I send to him? |
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| 18:26.50 | dfighter | roonyH what makes you think mentors use an email program that supports such features? :D |
| 18:27.11 | roonyH | yeah I just wished he use gmail |
| 18:28.02 | roonyH | if the title is same, they all pile up as a single thread |
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| 18:29.11 | roonyH | dfighter i wish he won't ignore all of my emails, real important ones I send to him |
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| 18:30.17 | tomprince | The emails from melange don't appear to come from you. |
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| 18:33.04 | roonyH | oh, thanks tomprince |
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| 18:35.36 | carols | serves some tea and coffee |
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| 18:47.16 | phenom_ | who do I mail the proposal to, exactly? |
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| 18:47.34 | tomprince | You put in in melange. |
| 18:48.56 | davidfetter | thinks this should be renamed to InterNational Google Summer Of Code: INGSOC |
| 18:49.03 | davidfetter | that would be doubleplusgood |
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| 18:49.51 | swook | lol davidfetter I wonder if that goes well with free and open source software |
| 18:50.10 | swook | "Ignorance is Strength" |
| 18:50.48 | davidfetter | swook, that's quite similar to some versions of XTR33m3 pr0gr4mm1n6 of my acquaintence |
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| 18:51.03 | davidfetter | swook, so no, i don't see any fundamental incompatibilities |
| 18:51.54 | swook | eh? what's similar to what? |
| 18:52.04 | swook | weren't you referring to Orwell? |
| 18:52.21 | davidfetter | i was indeed |
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| 18:52.31 | shar | Could someone help me if you are familiar with my issue? I wanted to know whether I registered separately for GSoC 2013 or used my last year account.. I have the following detail.. My dashboard contains only two things.. 1. list of documents ( its empty ) and proposals ( contains only the single proposal I have submitted this time ).. So does that indicate I have registered separately for 2013? I just wanted to make sure of this, so that I dont register again an |
| 18:52.40 | shar | d get into problems because of duplicate registrations.. Thanks in advance.. |
| 18:52.40 | davidfetter | swook, i was also referring to XP as i've seen zealots apply it |
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| 18:54.04 | percyd | how do I invite a mentor to be in my org? I am an org admin... I swear I could send invites in previous years! |
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| 18:54.29 | Krystof | percyd: go to your org page, and click "start a connection" |
| 18:54.39 | Krystof | next to "Edit", near the org title |
| 18:54.43 | Krystof | (I had to do that just earlier today) |
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| 18:55.51 | dhaun | shar: you need to register for each year separately; it should say "students - apply now" (or similar) on the Melange homepage - just follow that link |
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| 18:57.30 | shar | dhaun, yeah I know that.. But now, I am just confused whether I registered or used last year account for submitting my proposal.. So seeing the contents of my dashboard, do you have any idea whether its newly created account or last year account? |
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| 18:58.07 | shar | dhaun, My dashboard contains 1. list of docs ( empty now ) and 2. proposals ( contains the proposal submitted this year ) |
| 18:58.25 | ankitkv | does it matter when we apply? do I have the same chance if I submit on the last day as everyone who has already submitted their proposals? |
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| 18:58.40 | dhaun | shar: okay, I'm only guessing now, but I don't think you could submit proposals for this year with last year's account |
| 18:59.01 | dhaun | shar: you would have to have accepted the terms at some point |
| 19:00.00 | shar | dhaun, one more thing.. I went to 2012 melange page and logged in.. It took me to the last year dashboard.. It still contains the evaluations, list of documents, todos etc.. So that implies this one is newly created right? because it has only the two things which I have mentioned above.. |
| 19:00.36 | percyd | @krystof thanks, but I can't seem to find that. which link is it from my dashboard? |
| 19:00.53 | dhaun | shar: yeah, sounds like everything is as it should be |
| 19:01.21 | Krystof | it's not from your dashboard |
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| 19:01.52 | percyd | AHA! :-) |
| 19:01.59 | Krystof | percyd: go to your org page, if you're logged in. Under your org name, choose "start connection" |
| 19:02.08 | shar | dhaun, you mean the account with which I have submitted the proposal is newly registered for 2013? I am worried about that fearing it shouldn't lead me to any trouble in getting selected.. |
| 19:02.32 | Krystof | oh, sorry, not your "my organizations" page but your actual organization page |
| 19:02.33 | dhaun | shar: if in doubt, ask your org or mentor if they can see your proposal |
| 19:02.41 | Krystof | the one that looks like https://google-melange.appspot.com/gsoc/org/google/gsoc2013/<orgname> |
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| 19:02.53 | shar | dhaun, will they be able to see my proposal before the deadline? |
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| 19:02.59 | dhaun | yes |
| 19:03.21 | shar | dhaun, that is a good solution then.. thanks for the idea.. :) |
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| 19:07.22 | davidfetter | had no idea ke$ha was a GSoC mentor |
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| 19:08.55 | zfe | hi folks |
| 19:09.05 | SeriousWorm | hi |
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| 19:11.04 | percyd | @krystof Thanks a bunch!!! |
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| 19:12.55 | sumanah | Hi there all. Former org admin & mentor here happy to give feedback on a draft proposal or 2 right now |
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| 19:13.31 | zfe | sumanah: here |
| 19:13.32 | davidfetter | sumanah, interested in SQL? |
| 19:13.37 | sumanah | ok, those are the 2 then :) |
| 19:13.40 | derdon | sumanah: can I pm you? |
| 19:13.47 | sumanah | zfe: you first. davidfetter I'm interested enough |
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| 19:14.02 | sumanah | derdon: You can pm me but I may be too busy to give you a lot of response |
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| 19:14.11 | derdon | sumanah: ok, no problem |
| 19:14.12 | sumanah | zfe: ok, link? |
| 19:14.20 | zfe | i thought you wanted feedback |
| 19:14.28 | zfe | on projects submitted to your organization |
| 19:14.32 | zfe | did i misunderstand |
| 19:14.55 | sumanah | zfe: So, I'm offering to criticize other people's proposals (no matter what the project is or who the mentoring org is) and give suggestions for improvement |
| 19:15.00 | sumanah | that is what I am offering right now |
| 19:15.01 | zfe | ah ok |
| 19:15.05 | zfe | sorry, i got it the other way |
| 19:15.10 | josko- | Aw-shucks, I missed it :) |
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| 19:15.21 | sumanah | zfe: if you would like to look at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2013 and give our students feedback, please go ahead! |
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| 19:15.55 | sumanah | davidfetter: link? |
| 19:16.26 | wkoszek | So will we have at least small deadline extension for students? :-) |
| 19:16.36 | derdon | sumanah: http://bpaste.net/show/7T0IOsTtLbgy4fcW4Edh/ |
| 19:16.39 | davidfetter | sumanah, one sec |
| 19:16.56 | sumanah | wkoszek: No, there will be no deadline extension for student applications |
| 19:17.19 | sumanah | ok, zfe do you want feedback? if not then I'll move on to davidfetter and derdon |
| 19:17.20 | derdon | (I hope the ReST format is no problem for reading) |
| 19:17.30 | zfe | sumanah: you can move on |
| 19:17.35 | sumanah | derdon: I'll be able to read it :) |
| 19:17.39 | derdon | fine |
| 19:17.43 | davidfetter | sumanah, http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2013/karlik/16001 |
| 19:17.57 | sumanah | ok! thanks. davidfetter first, then derdon |
| 19:18.09 | wkoszek | sumanah: Ok, thanks. |
| 19:18.09 | sumanah | josko-: you could just post a link to your proposal here and maybe someone else will help critique it |
| 19:18.27 | davidfetter | sumanah, no rush. need to go pick up $spouse & $kid[1] & have lunch |
| 19:18.30 | sumanah | (I was the org admin for MediaWiki, btw) |
| 19:18.33 | sumanah | davidfetter: :-) ok |
| 19:18.47 | sumanah | davidfetter: your proposal is not public so I cannot see it |
| 19:18.52 | davidfetter | oh |
| 19:19.10 | davidfetter | how do i make it public? |
| 19:19.20 | Karlik | davidfetter: I can if you really want ;) |
| 19:19.23 | sumanah | davidfetter: I think you look at some kind of public v private option but I do not know where it is |
| 19:19.52 | Karlik | sumanah: done ;] |
| 19:20.30 | sumanah | "Name of proposer and email: Karol Trzcionka - original David Fetter" wait, who's the student applying here? |
| 19:20.49 | davidfetter | Karol. i'm the mentor |
| 19:20.51 | sumanah | that's a pretty confusing thing to put at the top of a proposal |
| 19:21.00 | sumanah | oh! ok. Saying that clearly will be good |
| 19:21.09 | davidfetter | need to run now. |
| 19:21.10 | sumanah | perhaps "original idea by mentor David Fetter" |
| 19:21.35 | sumanah | I was presuming that David was the student since he's the one who said yes to my offer of feedback. |
| 19:21.44 | sumanah | OK Karlik do you want some suggestions for improvement? |
| 19:22.05 | davidfetter | i'm new to the mentoring thing, and really need to do what i said i'd do earlier now :P |
| 19:22.24 | sumanah | go forth davidfetter you can look at logs later |
| 19:22.26 | sumanah | !logs |
| 19:22.26 | gsocbot | sumanah: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
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| 19:22.59 | sumanah | waits for Karlik's answer - wants to avoid unsolicited suggestions |
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| 19:23.42 | Karlik | sumanah: I'm always open for suggestions (not always realize them but read/hear other point of view is nice) |
| 19:23.43 | sumanah | Well, I guess David asked for advice so I will give it |
| 19:23.46 | sumanah | OK. |
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| 19:24.00 | sumanah | "I amd experienced" and similar typos make you look like someone who won't get the details right. You should fix them |
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| 19:25.52 | sumanah | Karlik: You should link a lot more to code that you've written. It would especially be good to link to PostgreSQL patches you have written. And you should allot time specifically for testing, documentation, code review and bugfixing, merge with master and merge conflict resolution, and communication (email, blog posts, IRC office hours, etc) |
| 19:27.22 | sumanah | Karlik: http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ch008_writing-a-proposal/ read that again, especially the bit about deadlines. |
| 19:28.04 | ankitkv | do I have the same chance of being accepted as others who have already submitted their proposals if I submit on the last day? |
| 19:28.09 | sumanah | Karlik: if you have made previous contributions to open source communities, even if the contributions were to something other than Postgres, go ahead and link. This includes mailing list posts, bug reports, teaching courses or trainings, etc. |
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| 19:28.19 | sumanah | ankitkv: Why would you be submitting on the last day? |
| 19:28.34 | sumanah | ankitkv: then you have less of a chance of getting useful feedback from the mentors and thus modifying and improving your proposal |
| 19:28.37 | Aayush251 | Hey sumanah :) |
| 19:28.40 | sumanah | Karlik: does that all make sense? |
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| 19:29.00 | josko- | Question about the "pencils down" date... Does it mean we can still code during that period if necessary? |
| 19:29.27 | sumanah | josko-: when you say "can" I'm not sure what you mean |
| 19:29.41 | sumanah | josko-: anyone can contribute code to any open source project at any time outside of GSoC |
| 19:29.42 | David_Honeynet | josko-: firm pencils down means stop coding |
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| 19:30.04 | Karlik | sumanah: the problem is I don't have any patches to PostgreSQL and most of my code (academic projects and other works) is not public |
| 19:30.05 | sumanah | josko-: perhaps you are asking whether code you write after the pencils-down date can count towards your final GSoC evaluation. the answer to that is no |
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| 19:30.40 | David_Honeynet | josko-: but obviously once GSoC has completed, the orgs hope you will remain in their communities and continue coding outside GSoC ;-) |
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| 19:30.56 | sumanah | Karlik: Then my suggestion is: start working on a PostgreSQL patch and link to the patch in progress, give summaries of the past projects you've done (how much time they took and what they accomplished) and offer to send copies of those files to mentors upon request |
| 19:31.14 | sumanah | Karlik: also, could you just release the code for your academic projects & other works? any reason it has to be secret? |
| 19:31.14 | josko- | Thank you guys. This channel is really something :D |
| 19:31.40 | DroidBurgundy | :) |
| 19:31.46 | sumanah | hi Aayush251 |
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| 19:32.14 | Karlik | One project (engineer) must wait because University have law to publish it first (as I know half year?) |
| 19:32.23 | sumanah | Karlik: Understood. |
| 19:32.41 | Aayush251 | sumanah I got your email am I supposed to reply to all those question or include them in my application? |
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| 19:32.44 | sumanah | Karlik: here is a proposal from 2012 that we accepted https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Drecodeam/GSoC_2012_Application (different schedule of course) to give you some idea of what might be useful |
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| 19:33.13 | Aayush251 | (and yes yurik agreed to mentor me if I get selected) |
| 19:33.15 | sumanah | Aayush251: I think you should update your proposal to answer the questions from http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-May/069019.html |
| 19:33.44 | sumanah | Aayush251: so, yes, incorporate answers to those questions into your application |
| 19:33.56 | Aayush251 | Alright thanks I was really waiting for feedback :) |
| 19:34.05 | sumanah | Aayush251: well now you have it :) |
| 19:34.26 | Aayush251 | and I'm gonna proofread it today as well . |
| 19:35.13 | d33tah | hm |
| 19:35.31 | sumanah | Karlik: I think you have trouble with English articles such as a, an, and the. This is common among Polish people learning English so don't feel too bad. "There should be possibility to return value not updated." is an example of that. I would suggest rewording as "We should add the option to return values that haven't been updated" or something like that |
| 19:35.48 | d33tah | i need a name of an nmap lua script that is close to TCP "hello world" as possible. |
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| 19:35.58 | d33tah | could anyone help me? |
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| 19:36.31 | sumanah | Karlik: does that make sense? |
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| 19:37.11 | Karlik | sumanah: yeah, the proposal should be rewritten by person who knows English well. |
| 19:37.43 | sumanah | Karlik: well, you're the one who should be writing the proposal |
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| 19:38.04 | Karlik | :) |
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| 19:39.19 | d33tah | oh, sorry, wrong channel. |
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| 19:39.37 | d33tah | btw, could anyone read my proposal and comment on it please? |
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| 19:40.34 | Karlik | sumanah: There is the problem with my OS contribution because I've given small patches (sometimes without my name) and hacks, normally I'm RPM's maintainer |
| 19:41.03 | sumanah | Karlik: List and link to as much as you can. That's my opinion |
| 19:41.17 | josko- | sumanah, what about listing unrelated projects? |
| 19:41.34 | sumanah | josko-: yes, I think you should link to them as proof that you know how to work in open source and that you have some experience |
| 19:41.43 | josko- | Ok, thank you. |
| 19:41.47 | sumanah | ok, Karlik I hope that is helpful, I'm going to move on to derdon now |
| 19:41.54 | sumanah | sorry for the wait derdon |
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| 19:41.58 | derdon | no problem at all |
| 19:42.35 | Karlik | ok, thanks ;] |
| 19:42.37 | sumanah | derdon: first off: I think this is a good proposal, and I think you should be happy you wrote it |
| 19:42.49 | derdon | sumanah: wow, thank you :) |
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| 19:43.14 | sumanah | derdon: ok, now the criticism |
| 19:44.08 | sumanah | derdon: You should link a lot more to code that you've written. It would especially be good to link to other open source patches you have written. And you should allot more time specifically for testing, documentation, code review and bugfixing, merge with master and merge conflict resolution, and communication (email, blog posts, IRC office hours, etc) |
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| 19:45.02 | sumanah | derdon: you should be more specific about how much you can work between the formal start of GSoC and July 6, and you should talk about what your working hours typically are and in what timezone -- especially in relation to where your mentor is, and how you will communicate with her or him |
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| 19:45.54 | _005 | Is there any time management software projects in gsoc this year? |
| 19:45.57 | sumanah | derdon: 'The user can choose whether he wants to set a data limit or not.' I would prefer nongendered language here; singular "they" is fine |
| 19:46.21 | sumanah | _005: look at https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2013 to check |
| 19:46.30 | derdon | sumanah: my mentor is in the same timezone as me and we already communicate quite often. should I mention it anyway? and you're right with the gender thing, I have often difficulties with finding a neutral form |
| 19:47.09 | sumanah | derdon: I think mentioning that is good, just to show the other reviewers that you have thought about this, and that you are already in communication at a healthy frequency |
| 19:47.36 | sumanah | Thank you for working on genderneutral language derdon - sometimes I envy languages that do not gender nouns or pronouns! |
| 19:48.03 | sumanah | derdon: talking explicitly about the good communication foundation you've already laid helps put you ahead of other candidates who have not made that effort or thought about that component of the project |
| 19:48.22 | derdon | alright. Is it also good to link to bug reports I have written for open source projects? I think there are some good of mine where I haven't patched code, though |
| 19:48.25 | sumanah | derdon: YES IT IS. |
| 19:48.37 | derdon | good, I will add them then |
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| 19:49.02 | sumanah | derdon: The more you can demonstrate that you already know how to work in public, the better, in my opinion. This includes mailing list posts, courses you have taught or trainings you have led, blog posts and docs and bug reports you have written, and so on |
| 19:49.31 | sumanah | This puts you ahead of competitors who are very reluctant to work in public or who have never used a bug tracker, mailing list, or wiki before |
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| 19:50.27 | derdon | I see. you said I should calculate more time for documentation, communication, merge conflicts, etc. I will see how I can adjust my timeplan |
| 19:50.43 | derdon | and thank you already for your constructive criticism! |
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| 19:50.59 | sumanah | derdon: when you say "document and test" giving some more thought and specifics would be nice. What kind of testing? Writing and running unit tests? Automated testing using what environment? Manual testing? Will you try to get a colleague or some sample users to test? |
| 19:51.09 | d33tah | btw, what's with the "competition"? do organizations have limited slots for students they can accept? |
| 19:51.16 | sumanah | d33tah: yes |
| 19:51.18 | sumanah | !slots |
| 19:51.19 | gsocbot | sumanah: "slots" is (#1) Slot allocation is done manually by Chris DiBona and Carol Smith, be a good org, play nice on the mentor list and #gsoc, ask for a non-crazy-high number of slots, and you'll probably get what you ask. Note that non-crazy-high for new orgs is around 1 or 2., or (#2) http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/NotesonStudentAllocations |
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| 19:51.50 | derdon | sumanah: I meant automated unittests using the python testing framework py.test which is used by the project I am applying for (SunPy) |
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| 19:52.06 | sumanah | Great, derdon, stating that explicitly is good |
| 19:52.26 | d33tah | how can I find out how many slots does my organization have then? |
| 19:52.26 | derdon | sumanah: and documentation is written using the tool Sphinx, becuae the project uses it and because it's cool :) |
| 19:52.33 | derdon | should I also mention that? |
| 19:52.43 | derdon | *because |
| 19:52.44 | sumanah | derdon: what's your instinct? |
| 19:52.46 | sumanah | :) |
| 19:52.58 | sumanah | d33tah: read the links I gave ya :-) |
| 19:53.07 | sumanah | derdon: and with documentation, some ideas: user-facing help manual; code walkthrough video or diagram or text to help future developers build on your code; feature "interview" to explain what decisions you made and why you made those choices? |
| 19:53.22 | derdon | sumanah: I don't know. I haven't written it explicitly because it seems too natural to me use the tools the project uses |
| 19:53.47 | sumanah | derdon: I think that explicitly stating it is a good thing because it shows you've thought about what to do and you have enough context to know what the preferred tool is |
| 19:54.11 | derdon | sumanah: thank you for your ideas. I see you take documentation as serious as I do :) |
| 19:54.16 | sumanah | derdon: :D yay docs! |
| 19:54.21 | derdon | alright, I will state it then |
| 19:54.58 | sumanah | derdon: you can also of course ask your mentor for their thoughts on these suggestions and perhaps your mentor will have another perspective based on their knowledge of the other reviewers |
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| 19:55.26 | sumanah | but I think it's safe to say that explicitly demonstrating your understanding of the preferred tools of the mentoring project helps show that you are clueful |
| 19:56.39 | sumanah | derdon: minor typo: "So I became corious again" should be "curious" |
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| 19:57.23 | sumanah | and finally derdon if you have any thoughts on API usability or schema design resources you will consult (people or books or papers) as you do these things, that would be great -- also it would be good to mention if you've ever done those kinds of architectural design tasks before |
| 19:57.52 | sumanah | for instance derdon check out apiusability.org |
| 19:58.12 | sumanah | derdon: there are some resources listed there |
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| 19:58.48 | sumanah | derdon: I read a good chapter about API usability in "Making Software" that led me to understand developer personas https://blogs.msdn.com/b/susantodd/archive/2011/05/06/quot-people-in-context-quot-a-new-way-to-look-at-personas.aspx |
| 19:58.57 | sumanah | http://www.aosabook.org/en/makingsoftware.html is the book to look at |
| 19:59.01 | sumanah | ok, hope that's helpful derdon! |
| 19:59.38 | derdon | sumanah: when I asked my mentors for feedback, the application was in a different state. I will show them the relevant part of the irc log and ask them for their opinions :) |
| 19:59.43 | sumanah | Got it |
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| 19:59.57 | derdon | sorry for not responding, on the phone |
| 20:02.31 | sumanah | waits for derdon to finish phone call in case derdon has any additional followup questions |
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| 20:02.45 | sumanah | does other things, awaits pinging in IRC in case there are any followup questions :-) |
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| 20:03.00 | josko- | Even idling here makes me smarter by the minute. |
| 20:03.50 | derdon | sumanah: back again! will read now your further remarks |
| 20:04.05 | sumanah | josko-: One thing I like doing is reading https://lwn.net/ every week -- the current week's news is behind a paywall but all the stuff from a week ago and older is free |
| 20:04.18 | sumanah | it has useful analysis of lots of news and events and trends in open source |
| 20:05.07 | sumanah | will be back in a few min |
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| 20:06.36 | derdon | sumanah: thank you for the link on API usability! I have not done a task like this before where you plan your API in a very structural way before, so I can't mention it |
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| 20:07.09 | sumanah | derdon: Glad to help! And what about schema modification or creation? |
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| 20:08.01 | purezen | Hey..! I wanted to ask if one can improve his/her project applications/proposals after the same have been submitted to melange after the application submission deadline (May 3 i.e.)..? |
| 20:08.10 | carols | purezen: sure |
| 20:08.12 | carols | go ahead |
| 20:08.29 | derdon | sumanah: I'm not a database expert and have no professional experience with the SQLAchemy ORM, only basic experience |
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| 20:09.39 | sumanah | derdon: well, you might want to mention whatever your "basic" experience is -- better basic than none. |
| 20:10.00 | derdon | you are right, I should mention that as well. |
| 20:11.03 | kscottz | Howdy I've got two quick questions before the on-slaught |
| 20:11.09 | derdon | the thing is, some skills like using git seems to me so natural meanwhile that I don't consider it something special. but there are students who apply without such experience, so I should list it |
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| 20:11.44 | purezen | carols: Ok.. Thanks..:-) |
| 20:11.47 | kscottz | First, I accidently added a mentor to my org who we don't wish to be a mentor, how do I remove them from our org's mentors |
| 20:11.49 | carols | yw :-) |
| 20:12.08 | carols | kscottz: ask the melange folks to help you |
| 20:12.24 | sumanah | derdon: yup, completely understandable -- it can be a bit tricky to remember what is "normal" and what isn't! |
| 20:12.47 | aghisla | offers cookies |
| 20:12.48 | kscottz | carols: like on the project page, or do they have like a freenode channel? |
| 20:12.53 | sumanah | derdon: for instance, "I can use a graphical user interface" is not particularly special among GSoC applicants, but experience using Git is actually worth mentioning. |
| 20:13.08 | carols | kscottz: #melange, but they're all volunteers, so you might have better luck with their mailing list |
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| 20:13.22 | kscottz | cool |
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| 20:14.19 | kscottz | carols: Second question, org admins are also mentors right? I'm the admin is there any magic I have to do to also be an admin? |
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| 20:14.59 | carols | kscottz: you should be able to do things like update your org profile and such. it's all laid out in the email i sent to the mentors list. |
| 20:15.00 | derdon | sumanah: thank you again for taking the time and for waiting when I was on the phone |
| 20:15.26 | sumanah | I'm glad to help derdon and I wish you confidence, stamina, luck, and continued compassion. |
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| 20:15.44 | DrinkMachine | +2 to Stamina +1 to Luck |
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| 20:16.38 | derdon | sumanah: so many things at once <3 |
| 20:17.28 | sumanah | josko-: I have a little time now to look at your proposal if you want |
| 20:17.40 | kscottz | carols: The one from yesterday? Just read it, still unclear. |
| 20:17.57 | carols | kscottz: cool. then how can i help? |
| 20:17.59 | sumanah | (People who enjoy working with me - think about Wikimedia next year!) :-) |
| 20:18.47 | kscottz | Oh, just a clarification, I am the org admin. I just want to make sure that org admin also means I am a mentor, that there isn't some flag that I need to set somewhere. |
| 20:18.59 | carols | kscottz: org admin is a superset of mentor. |
| 20:19.21 | kscottz | carols: swell, thanks! |
| 20:19.28 | carols | yw |
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| 20:21.19 | mitch__ | carols: hey boss, sorry to bother you directly, but can you make some admin take care of this please? #melange has no admins it seems. https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/melange-soc-dev/H2qF3BIkoow |
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| 20:21.57 | carols | mitch__: sure. |
| 20:22.07 | mitch__ | carols: thanks :) |
| 20:22.30 | carols | yw |
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| 20:26.56 | chitrank | Hello I know 3rd may is the deadline for the student proposal , May I know the timings for the deadline ? |
| 20:27.07 | josko- | 19:00 |
| 20:27.14 | josko- | (UTC) |
| 20:27.17 | gevaerts | !next | chitrank |
| 20:27.18 | gsocbot | chitrank: "next" is May 3 19:00 UTC: Student application deadline. ( Countdown at http://tinyurl.com/cg526v7 ) |
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| 20:27.49 | hratsimihah | hi all |
| 20:28.07 | sumanah | hi hratsimihah |
| 20:28.20 | chitrank | thank you josko and gsocbot |
| 20:28.21 | sumanah | d33tah: I have a few minutes now if you want some feedback on your proposal. Link? |
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| 20:31.38 | sumanah | Random note here: I admire every one of you who is a little scared about putting your work in public or applying for the first time but is overcoming your fear to do it anyway. |
| 20:32.02 | hratsimihah | sumanah: Is it recommended to make our proposals public? |
| 20:32.36 | sumanah | hratsimihah: I personally think that you should either make your Melange proposal public OR have a public version of your proposal someplace like on your blog or on your project's wiki. |
| 20:32.54 | sumanah | That way you are able to get feedback from your whole open source community. |
| 20:33.06 | hratsimihah | Right, thanks. |
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| 20:33.36 | sumanah | hratsimihah: If you give me a link to your proposal then I will give you feedback :) |
| 20:33.55 | hratsimihah | That's nice of you, thank you! |
| 20:34.22 | josko- | Just a question, does previous GSoC experience help in subsequent GSoCs? |
| 20:35.01 | swook | yes, as far as I've heard while lurking on this channel |
| 20:35.15 | sumanah | josko-: I think it depends on the organization's preference. |
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| 20:36.02 | krinye_ | Hello wanted to ask a quick question |
| 20:36.22 | krinye_ | I am currently not in school but I am returning in September can I still participate |
| 20:36.42 | krinye_ | my mentors don't seem to know if it is possible they told me to ask around |
| 20:36.45 | sumanah | !eligibility |
| 20:36.45 | gsocbot | sumanah: "eligibility" is http://goo.gl/IlvND |
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| 20:38.18 | vernon_ | Hello! I know I have to take GSoC as a full-time job. But does that mean that I can have one or two free days per week? It's kind of a funny question, I suppose, but I really don't know! |
| 20:38.37 | sumanah | vernon_: In my opinion you should work on GSoC 35-40 hours per week |
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| 20:38.52 | sumanah | vernon_: If you want to split that into 5 8-hour days, or 4 10-hour days, that works |
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| 20:38.58 | krinye_ | gsocbot I checked egligibility but its is different for me |
| 20:39.05 | summatusmentis | vernon_: it'll depend on your org |
| 20:39.09 | krinye_ | I am not a first year student I am a returning student |
| 20:39.17 | summatusmentis | vernon_: some orgs want daily progress updates, others prefer weekly |
| 20:39.20 | sumanah | vernon_: have you talked with your mentor about his or her expectations? |
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| 20:39.39 | summatusmentis | vernon_: others may be open to you just working and submitting patches, and not actively meeting for updates |
| 20:40.22 | sumanah | josko-: Some organizations might prefer to spend their time mentoring people who have never had a chance to do GSoC before. |
| 20:40.37 | vernon_ | sumanah: I am in close contact with my mentor, but we only talked about our project. And he is only avalaible by e-mail and it's nighttime already. :) |
| 20:40.56 | sumanah | josko-: However some organizations may like the demonstrated proof that a student can successfully work within the context of GSoC. |
| 20:41.07 | sumanah | josko-: there might even be disagreement among the mentors within a project on this point! |
| 20:41.42 | sumanah | vernon_: well, then in your proposal, you can state your thoughts -- say what you're interested in doing and what your range of possible work arrangements is |
| 20:41.55 | sumanah | vernon_: (regarding what hours and days you'd want to work) |
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| 20:43.38 | mouseover | How do I find out how many slots an organization got in *previous* GSoCs? |
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| 20:43.56 | sumanah | mouseover: https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2012 ? |
| 20:43.56 | carols | mouseover: ask them |
| 20:43.59 | vernon_ | sumanah: thanks for the advice |
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| 20:44.29 | sumanah | vernon_: glad to help |
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| 20:45.36 | laurion | hey, do you guys know how can I get in touch with the cesium mentors? |
| 20:45.45 | pmurias | after submiting the proposal I can still edit it? |
| 20:45.50 | pmurias | (before the deadline) |
| 20:45.52 | carols | laurion: what does it say on their melange homepage? |
| 20:45.55 | carols | pmurias: yes |
| 20:46.20 | laurion | carols, a blog 404 and a google group |
| 20:46.25 | laurion | i prefer chat |
| 20:46.32 | carols | laurion: well, maybe they don't? |
| 20:46.39 | carols | they obviously prefer mailing lists.. |
| 20:47.09 | nlminhtl | mouseover: wikipedia |
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| 20:48.12 | ala_mages | hello :) |
| 20:48.19 | ala_mages | i have one question |
| 20:48.47 | carols | sure, how can we help, ala_mages? |
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| 20:48.50 | ala_mages | with the proposal should we upload the academic transcript proving that i am still a student? |
| 20:49.19 | carols | ala_mages: nope |
| 20:49.27 | carols | if you're accepted you'll be asked for that later |
| 20:49.34 | carols | unless, of course, your org wants that. |
| 20:49.36 | ala_mages | aa ok i see :) |
| 20:49.39 | carols | in which case, you should ask them. |
| 20:49.52 | pmurias | if I'm graduating this year I'm eligable? |
| 20:50.02 | carols | pmurias: are you an enrolled student on may 27? |
| 20:50.11 | pmurias | yes |
| 20:50.14 | carols | great |
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| 20:50.28 | carols | then assuming you meet the other eligibility requirements, you're eligible |
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| 20:51.00 | ala_mages | ok thanks |
| 20:51.03 | ala_mages | :) |
| 20:51.14 | carols | yw |
| 20:51.19 | mouseover | Anyone here from NESCent? |
| 20:51.20 | George_M | Hello, whats the last date of submitting ranks of students to google?(by the org) |
| 20:51.25 | ala_mages | so as soon as you finish your proposals you just wait |
| 20:51.41 | sumanah | it's in the timeline George_M |
| 20:51.43 | sumanah | !timeline |
| 20:51.43 | gsocbot | sumanah: "timeline" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2013 |
| 20:51.47 | toso | !next |
| 20:51.49 | gsocbot | toso: "next" is May 3 19:00 UTC: Student application deadline. ( Countdown at http://tinyurl.com/cg526v7 ) |
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| 20:54.40 | ala_mages | thanks guys have a goodnight cheers :) |
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| 21:00.52 | pmurias | if I mark my proposal as visible how is it visible? |
| 21:01.04 | sumanah | pmurias: do you mean, who can see it? |
| 21:01.08 | pmurias | yes |
| 21:01.11 | derdon | pmurias: everyone who knows the link |
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| 21:01.52 | pmurias | is it possible to see a list of other proposal to a given organisation? |
| 21:02.18 | carols | pmurias: a list? no. |
| 21:02.24 | swook | pmurias: I believe that may go against some sort of data privacy act ;) |
| 21:02.31 | carols | pmurias: you can see other student proposals if they've made it public and send you the URL |
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| 21:03.36 | pmurias | and the ones from previous years? |
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| 21:04.10 | swook | some careful googling gives you some examples pmurias |
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| 21:04.31 | kblin | evening carols :) |
| 21:04.39 | carols | evening kblin |
| 21:04.40 | carols | :-) |
| 21:04.42 | swook | pmurias: such as the query: "site:google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google" |
| 21:05.45 | kblin | carols: how's life on the pacific? |
| 21:05.52 | gevaerts | Of course, remember that many of those were not selected :) |
| 21:05.55 | carols | kblin: good, thanks. busy. how are you? |
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| 21:08.42 | kblin | carols: doing great. :) just got my first first-author paper accepted. now I have no excuse not to work on my dissertation anymore |
| 21:08.52 | carols | kblin: great :-) glad to hear it |
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| 21:10.20 | kblin | it's funny how important that feels academically, and how little it actually means in real life |
| 21:11.02 | carols | haha :-) |
| 21:11.47 | swook | kblin: it's still pretty darn awesome! |
| 21:11.48 | p_l|omoikane | kblin: great at reminding me how little my MSci work will be worth :> |
| 21:13.28 | kblin | swook: sure, I just had some champagne with the $GF, but I'm sure that when applying for a job, GSoC most likely makes more of a difference than a first-author paper |
| 21:13.45 | swook | surely that depends on the job? |
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| 21:14.19 | kblin | swook: well, if it's outside of academia I'm pretty sure |
| 21:14.33 | swook | outside of academia but within R&D? |
| 21:14.41 | jojva | hi, is there any way to not display my email address along with my proposal ? (Email: bla.blo@bli.com |
| 21:14.42 | jojva | Short description: ...) |
| 21:14.46 | swook | there are just quite a lot of cases |
| 21:15.19 | swook | jojva: I think you need to provide some sort of an email address to them |
| 21:15.36 | kblin | swook: tell you what, when I get my next job, I'll ask :) |
| 21:15.37 | swook | unless you have other easier means of communication available |
| 21:15.43 | swook | kblin: :) |
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| 21:17.02 | gevaerts | jojva: if you're thinking about marking your proposal as public, you can put confidential stuff in a comment |
| 21:18.26 | harshkothari | transcript demand is depend on organization ?? |
| 21:18.45 | kblin | harshkothari: usually they won't care |
| 21:19.08 | kblin | harshkothari: but if they asked for it for whatever reason, it probably is in your best interest to provide it |
| 21:19.33 | kblin | harshkothari: google will ask you for a transcript at some point after you were accepted |
| 21:19.35 | harshkothari | kblin: because our university takes 20 days for the same.. which documents we need to submit for GSoC ? |
| 21:19.56 | harshkothari | on google |
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| 21:20.20 | olly | harshkothari: i'd wait until you're accepted |
| 21:20.28 | olly | they'll understand that it may take time to get them |
| 21:20.49 | harshkothari | olly: thanks :) |
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| 21:34.09 | swook | !timeline |
| 21:34.10 | gsocbot | swook: "timeline" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2013 |
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| 21:38.22 | galaxyAbstractor | Hey, so about the formatting in the text editor when you submit your proposal... I kind of messed up somehow and now my proposal is in 3 different fonts and fontsizes, and whatever I do it only gets worse. |
| 21:38.46 | galaxyAbstractor | I guess it doesn't really matter, but it's annoying me, is there some proper way to reset the formatting? |
| 21:39.16 | jojva | galaxyAbstractor, don't bother with google-melange formatter, it's the dummiest kind of sh** anybody's ever seen |
| 21:39.26 | jojva | copy-paste in a normal editor |
| 21:39.31 | jojva | and copy-paste back |
| 21:40.18 | kblin | apparently this year you can't turn it off anymore |
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| 21:40.22 | sumanah | hi hratsimihah |
| 21:40.25 | hratsimihah | hi sumanah |
| 21:40.28 | hratsimihah | :) |
| 21:40.46 | sumanah | you mentioned you are worried about having messed up your application? is there a Melange problem perhaps? |
| 21:41.21 | hratsimihah | Would it be a bad strategy to have a single proposal with a new organization? I just read Google's note on slot allocation that new organizations are only given 1 or 2 slots. |
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| 21:42.02 | kblin | hratsimihah: if you're submitting the best proposal they got, you're fine ;) |
| 21:42.11 | swook | hratsimihah: new organisations may have few applications too |
| 21:42.36 | kblin | hratsimihah: gsoc tends not to be a numbers game |
| 21:42.46 | hratsimihah | I see, thank. That's reassuring. |
| 21:43.05 | hratsimihah | thank you* |
| 21:43.45 | hratsimihah | I feel like it depends on the project's importance within the organization, and I'm not sure how high in their list mine is. |
| 21:44.08 | sumanah | !odds |
| 21:44.08 | gsocbot | sumanah: "odds" is Odds, chances or probability really do not come into play for GSoC. Rambling off numbers or asking What are the odds of getting accepted... is really quite useless as one's acceptance is not dictated by luck or numbers, but by the quality of your proposal and your skills instead. |
| 21:44.16 | sumanah | hratsimihah: can you ask them? |
| 21:44.23 | kblin | in 2005 there were 400 students taken from ~10000 proposals. and basically all the orgs I talked to took everybody who could write full sentences back then, and not just every 25th applicant |
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| 21:44.55 | hratsimihah | Good one, sumanah. :) |
| 21:45.27 | hratsimihah | kblin: it seems more appropriate for a writing program than a coding one. |
| 21:45.42 | kblin | so your odds were closer to 0:400 if you just wrote "hey, I'm cool, pick me" and 400:400 if you wrote a project plan |
| 21:45.54 | josko- | kblin, thank for you this information. Motivating me further :D |
| 21:46.01 | swook | kblin: It's still quite scary when you know your competition as I do :( |
| 21:46.02 | josko- | thank you for* |
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| 21:46.21 | hratsimihah | swook: what organization are you applying for? |
| 21:46.32 | swook | not many people code with Go, and the one I'm applying for has the only Go project in GSoC |
| 21:46.34 | swook | Measurement Lab |
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| 21:46.38 | kblin | hratsimihah: well, I do expect a student to be able to write a coherent project proposal, or talk to me if they aren't |
| 21:46.44 | sumanah | hratsimihah: Communicating well is a key part of engineering |
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| 21:47.00 | hratsimihah | It certainly is. |
| 21:47.53 | galaxyAbstractor | Yeah, copying into notepad and back, then readding all the headers, lists and links worked. Thanks jojva :) |
| 21:48.27 | swook | it would be nice if proposals were embedded Google Drive documents |
| 21:48.36 | swook | it'd come with free versioning and all |
| 21:49.04 | kblin | swook: I'm sure patches are welcome |
| 21:49.41 | hratsimihah | That'd be great. I was just discussing with my mentor how WYSIWYG interfaces aren't efficient for text editing. |
| 21:49.59 | swook | kblin: yes I'm sure but I have never heard of embedding Drive documents |
| 21:51.06 | kblin | I'm not sure if there's an API for that, either |
| 21:51.17 | kblin | if not, there'd be your reason why it isn't |
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| 21:51.58 | swook | I should stop thinking out loud :) |
| 21:52.06 | swook | (but it would be nice!) |
| 21:52.33 | sumanah | swook: you can file an enhancement request |
| 21:53.07 | kblin | sumanah: but sometimes getting them implemented takes a while |
| 21:53.09 | kblin | !bugs |
| 21:53.10 | gsocbot | kblin: "bugs" is http://tinyurl.com/new-issue |
| 21:53.17 | sumanah | yes |
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| 21:53.33 | sumanah | a good open source citizen files bug reports & enhancement requests |
| 21:53.55 | hratsimihah | or fix the bug themselves. |
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| 21:54.25 | sumanah | yes |
| 21:54.54 | hratsimihah | Wouldn't it be possible to get results similar to embedded documents using Google's Drive download options? |
| 21:54.57 | sumanah | it's nice in that case to file the report and then assign it to themselves, if the fix is going to take more than a few min |
| 21:55.06 | hratsimihah | Right. |
| 21:55.20 | kblin | https://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=611 <-- still isn't fixed, for example ;) |
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| 21:55.35 | swook | I think a good citizen also submits realistic ideas to bug trackers, not random thoughts |
| 21:55.58 | sumanah | I think random thought is okay as long as you specify it as such and mark it low-priority |
| 21:56.19 | sumanah | and are open to other people either taking it and running with it, or not, or even WONTFIXing it |
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| 21:56.37 | swook | I see |
| 21:57.31 | kblin | swook: and you're allowed to occasionally complain about it on IRC |
| 21:58.33 | kblin | but kidding aside, the melange people are really good at fixing the real problems people are running into |
| 21:59.21 | kblin | apart from using only a third of the available screen size on every system that's not a phablet. but I guess the web designer is to blame for that |
| 21:59.22 | derdon | 21 hours left! |
| 21:59.44 | sumanah | learned a new word today! (phablet) |
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| 22:01.26 | swook | there are even tabphones |
| 22:01.43 | kblin | sumanah: well, this is supposed to be an educational programme :) |
| 22:01.53 | sumanah | yep! |
| 22:01.56 | mrtadis | how many proposals one student is allowed to post? :D |
| 22:02.04 | kblin | another job well done. :) |
| 22:02.04 | swook | up to 5 in total |
| 22:02.12 | hratsimihah | kblin: are you European? |
| 22:02.13 | kblin | mrtadis: what swook said |
| 22:02.38 | kblin | hratsimihah: Lyup |
| 22:02.43 | kblin | -L |
| 22:02.50 | hratsimihah | French? |
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| 22:03.49 | swook | kblin is actually one of the easiest person to google up |
| 22:03.56 | jojva | galaxyAbstractor: notepad odd choice, but if it worked for you great ;) i used libreoffice and google doc |
| 22:03.58 | swook | and I'm pretty sure he isn't French |
| 22:03.58 | kblin | hratsimihah: close, but no cigar :) |
| 22:04.38 | kblin | swook: well, it's a french last name, and I grew up close to the french border.. but that's about as french as I get |
| 22:04.42 | hratsimihah | Belgian or Swiss. |
| 22:05.09 | hratsimihah | Oh. |
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| 22:05.11 | sumanah | btw what open source conferences are y'all attending this summer? |
| 22:05.27 | swook | kblin: ah right, another new fact! |
| 22:05.30 | kblin | hratsimihah: still off :) |
| 22:05.53 | hratsimihah | I'd say German, then. |
| 22:05.59 | kblin | sumanah: I'm speaking at SambaXP in two weeks |
| 22:06.12 | sumanah | kblin: cool! I had not heard of that one. |
| 22:06.19 | hratsimihah | But you spelled "program" like in french. |
| 22:06.33 | swook | The English say programme too! |
| 22:06.35 | bbc | hratsimihah: like in British English |
| 22:06.35 | sumanah | yeah |
| 22:06.48 | hratsimihah | learned a new thing today too. :) |
| 22:07.04 | davidfetter | can usually understand English, but speaks US-ian |
| 22:07.20 | sumanah | hey davidfetter |
| 22:07.21 | kblin | hratsimihah: as a european, I try to stick to using british english :) |
| 22:07.35 | hratsimihah | That makes sense. |
| 22:08.04 | davidfetter | hey sumanah |
| 22:08.04 | sumanah | I'll be speaking at http://opensourcebridge.org/ in June |
| 22:08.16 | hratsimihah | sumanah: Nice! |
| 22:08.30 | sumanah | and I'll be at http://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/ in Hong Kong later in the summer; don't know yet whether they'll accept either of my talk proposals |
| 22:08.44 | davidfetter | how's your mandarin? |
| 22:09.18 | kblin | sumanah: I guess if you're not really into Samba development, SambaXP is pretty unimportant :) |
| 22:09.25 | sumanah | davidfetter: nonexistent, sadly |
| 22:09.51 | sumanah | kblin: I helped a professor research Samba once! in 2000. So I think I no longer count as "really into Samba development" |
| 22:10.12 | kblin | fair enough |
| 22:10.29 | davidfetter | 说一点点普通话 |
| 22:10.34 | hratsimihah | forgot the password of his cousin's router, and couldn't open his ZNC port to connect to his bouncer. Two weeks later (today), he remembered he opened his SSH port already and switched from ZNC/Colloquy to screen/irssi, and can now log his IRC conversations remotely. |
| 22:11.10 | kblin | whoops, SIGWIFE, see you folks tomorrow |
| 22:11.13 | sumanah | bye |
| 22:11.17 | hratsimihah | bye kblin |
| 22:11.36 | sumanah | davidfetter: IIRC you're Karlik's mentor? |
| 22:11.39 | davidfetter | kblin, that's been supplanted by SIGSPOUSE |
| 22:11.43 | davidfetter | sumanah, you RC |
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| 22:12.29 | sumanah | davidfetter: did you get a chance to look at my suggestions to Karlik? anything you agree or disagree with? |
| 22:12.38 | davidfetter | sumanah, looking now... |
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| 22:14.24 | davidfetter | sumanah, well, this all appears to me as a 1st-year mentor pretty good, but i don't have a basis on which to judge |
| 22:14.46 | sumanah | ok, thanks davidfetter - I wanted to check whether there was anything there that actually went against your preferences |
| 22:15.14 | sumanah | for instance, some people might prefer shorter rather than more detailed, or something |
| 22:15.24 | davidfetter | my preferences are these: 1. that my GSoC student succeed, and 2. that PostgreSQL gets a cool new feature |
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| 22:15.35 | swook | if I may ask, is "pretty good" very positive feedback? |
| 22:15.37 | davidfetter | 2. is a distant 2nd to 1. |
| 22:15.48 | davidfetter | swook, heavily depends on context |
| 22:15.49 | sumanah | davidfetter: did you read http://people.gnome.org/~federico/docs/summer-of-code-mentoring-howto/ ? It might be helpful to you |
| 22:15.58 | davidfetter | sumanah, thanks. reading. |
| 22:16.03 | sumanah | swook: it is positive feedback but the strength depends on the person saying it |
| 22:16.08 | hratsimihah | I'm off. Bye all. |
| 22:16.13 | swook | I can imagine |
| 22:16.13 | hratsimihah | sumanah: Thank you for your help. |
| 22:16.18 | swook | sorry it was a silly question |
| 22:16.23 | swook | but it was what I was given too |
| 22:16.26 | sumanah | bye hratsimihah and best wishes |
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| 22:16.45 | davidfetter | 'sup kesha |
| 22:16.50 | hratsimihah | thank you! |
| 22:16.51 | davidfetter | or is that ke$ha |
| 22:16.53 | davidfetter | ? |
| 22:16.53 | ojwb | swook: you could try explicitly asking how you could improve it |
| 22:17.18 | swook | I have and have received advice :) |
| 22:17.22 | swook | just being a worrywart! |
| 22:17.23 | sumanah | cool :) |
| 22:17.40 | sumanah | swook: you are in a situation that is apt to make people worrisome - understandable |
| 22:18.15 | swook | well there's another guy who's up for the same task and he has waaaay more open source experience, so err yes! |
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| 22:29.34 | josko- | sumanah, just wanted to tell you that I'm just about done with my proposal. Many thanks to you good sir! |
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| 22:29.45 | swook | lady*! |
| 22:29.49 | josko- | Lady* |
| 22:29.51 | sumanah | I'm a woman, josko- |
| 22:29.52 | josko- | My apologies. |
| 22:29.59 | sumanah | Thanks, accepted |
| 22:30.18 | josko- | I'd probably have ~0% chance if it weren't for you :) |
| 22:30.43 | sumanah | You are kind. :) |
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| 22:33.54 | hratsimihah | What's the difference between a lady and a woman? |
| 22:33.57 | hratsimihah | Is a lady younger? |
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| 22:34.53 | sumanah | hratsimihah: Different cultures and different versions of English do or don't use "lady" for different categories of person |
| 22:35.07 | hratsimihah | Thank you. |
| 22:35.41 | sumanah | hratsimihah: I live in the US and prefer to be called a woman, in general, and you will be safe if you call women "women". |
| 22:36.26 | hratsimihah | Thank you, English vs American English again. |
| 22:36.41 | sumanah | In the US we don't often say "good sir" or "good lady" -- in countries where "good sir" is common, I don't know what you say to a woman - perhaps "madame" or "lady". You can ask a teacher of yours what the etiquette is in your country. |
| 22:38.05 | hratsimihah | In French, we say monsieur and madame, which can be translated as goodsir and goodlady. |
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| 22:38.35 | bbc | are you French hratsimihah? |
| 22:38.42 | hratsimihah | Yes bbc. How about you? |
| 22:38.43 | schumaml | being sir'ed would make me feel awkward, actually |
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| 22:38.47 | bbc | hratsimihah: so am I :) |
| 22:38.55 | bbc | despite my nick |
| 22:38.57 | hratsimihah | Ho hey :) |
| 22:39.01 | gevaerts | hratsimihah: I disagree with the "good" in that translation :) |
| 22:39.14 | hratsimihah | You're right gevaerts. |
| 22:39.18 | derdon | schumaml: there a states in the US where it's common that the son says "sir" to his dad |
| 22:39.37 | hratsimihah | I was actually thinking about bonjour and bonsoir, goodday and goodnight. |
| 22:39.50 | schumaml | derdon: yes, but a) I do not live there and b) this is the internet |
| 22:39.52 | swook | isn't mon/ma = 'my'? |
| 22:39.55 | hratsimihah | So monsieur and madame can be translated as my sir and my lady. |
| 22:40.00 | bbc | swook: you're right |
| 22:40.01 | gevaerts | hratsimihah: they'd be closer to "mylord" and "mylady", but those don't mean anything like the same these days |
| 22:40.12 | hratsimihah | Right. |
| 22:40.23 | derdon | schumaml: I wasn't implying anything with this information. |
| 22:40.40 | schumaml | and on b), sir'ing or ma'am'ing can even be seen as an insult :) |
| 22:40.54 | derdon | there is not translation for the word "sir" in my language, so I can't really understand what it means |
| 22:40.55 | swook | I've actually seen a mentor mention he'll fail candidates who start with "Dear Sir," |
| 22:40.57 | sumanah | tries to follow Postel's Law on that sort of thing |
| 22:41.01 | swook | so formality can be offensive too! |
| 22:41.09 | sumanah | swook: That might not be due to offense |
| 22:41.19 | schumaml | for example, do never, ever attempt to use the formal "Sie" instead of the informal "Du" on any german-language message board |
| 22:41.19 | hratsimihah | Maybe I should start paying attention to my lecture on monitors in process synchronization. Ttyl all. |
| 22:41.22 | derdon | swook: that's mean because there are many, many non-native speakers |
| 22:41.28 | swook | well, he did mention "Dear Sirs" where all-male situations are assumed |
| 22:41.32 | swook | and said that's inconsiderate |
| 22:41.38 | swook | derdon: I agree |
| 22:41.58 | swook | sumanah: you're right, it's more about not knowing the culture |
| 22:42.09 | sumanah | swook: there are a variety of reasons I could imagine this mentor saying that |
| 22:42.17 | derdon | schumaml: if German is a foreign language for you and you use "Sie", I wouldn't be mad |
| 22:42.20 | derdon | and noone else should |
| 22:42.52 | swook | in Korea, it's the opposite, we always always speak in the formal form |
| 22:43.14 | swook | because you don't speak in the informal form with younger people and those you know |
| 22:43.17 | sumanah | swook: examples: 1) a preference for naming the mentor specifically. 2) assuming gender. 3) a signal that the person can't follow directions well.... a bunch of stuff |
| 22:43.20 | swook | you only speak* |
| 22:43.43 | swook | that does make sense sumanah |
| 22:43.52 | swook | but he was talking about sending emails to MLs |
| 22:43.54 | sumanah | but I don't know this person's reasons |
| 22:44.19 | swook | anyways, let's not focus on that too much since like you said he does have his valid reasons |
| 22:44.41 | schumaml | swook: yes, that's a very problematic cultural difference |
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| 22:45.11 | schumaml | I know about it, but still have to fight to not read any such mail as arrogance :/ |
| 22:45.39 | sumanah | swook: well, it could be that this mentor is doing something I would consider wrong, depending on how serious he is in this autofail threat. But some reasons for at least marking points off for "dear sir" seem valid to me |
| 22:45.43 | swook | schumaml: non Korean professors are often a bit dumbfound when Korean students treat them too formally depite insisting they call him/her by the name |
| 22:46.12 | swook | sumanah: and I would agree but not fully |
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| 22:46.32 | swook | like I just mentioned, I think some students will find it almost impossibly hard not to be formal on first encounter |
| 22:46.37 | swook | no matter what the law in Rome is |
| 22:46.38 | sumanah | swook: yeah, I hear you |
| 22:46.39 | derdon | at my uni, all computer science students call the profs by their name :) |
| 22:46.44 | sumanah | swook: I think Postel's Law totally applies here |
| 22:47.11 | swook | yes :) |
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| 22:48.12 | hratsimihah | I used to have a hard time calling people by their firstname in the US, because in France it's not polite. |
| 22:48.12 | sumanah | swook: once the hurry and flurry of GSoC applications is over, it might be worth holding some teaching sessions here in #gsoc or in an adjacent room |
| 22:48.20 | hratsimihah | But I got used to it, and it feels better. |
| 22:48.32 | sumanah | about email etiquette, English tips, and stuff like that |
| 22:48.40 | hratsimihah | sumanah: that sounds great. |
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| 22:49.32 | schumaml | I wouldn't fail a student for using "sir" or "ma'am", though, but stuff like "ur" or "i c" is borderline :) |
| 22:49.47 | bbc | hratsimihah: same here about the names, but now I got it and I'm afraid I'm going to use people's firstnames when back in France |
| 22:50.33 | swook | sumanah: sounds like a good idea! |
| 22:50.43 | swook | to be fair to GSoC mentors and organisers though |
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| 22:50.52 | swook | this information is quite readily available |
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| 22:51.06 | hratsimihah | bbc: likewise. We may get slapped a couple of times. :) |
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| 22:51.36 | swook | thanks to the Korean bowing culture, I don't have that problem hehe |
| 22:51.52 | swook | you get to think differently when you're physically doing differnt things |
| 22:51.59 | bbc | hratsimihah: at least you don't hesitate between "tu" and "vous" in the US |
| 22:52.07 | bbc | that's so practical |
| 22:52.11 | sumanah | swook: Different people learn differently; some people learn from reading, others from interactively making projects or asking questions, others from listening and taking notes, etc |
| 22:52.19 | davidfetter | had no idea Korean string instruments had bows |
| 22:52.26 | sumanah | so I figure a teaching session would have some benefit to some people |
| 22:52.43 | swook | davidfetter: it does! :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haegeum |
| 22:52.55 | swook | sumanah: that's true |
| 22:53.29 | sumanah | bbc: Russian also has formal/informal distinction for the second person. When I was in Russia, one day I was talking with a stranger in English, and it felt uncomfortably close and familiar to not be able to use the formal second person |
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| 22:53.35 | hratsimihah | bbc: it sure is annoying. |
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| 22:54.01 | sumanah | I had gotten used to the ability to clearly have a comfortable emotional distance from the other person in the conversation, and I missed it when I did not have it |
| 22:54.14 | hratsimihah | Then again, US can't differentiate between singular and plural when addressing people. |
| 22:54.32 | swook | that's why there's "y'all" |
| 22:54.46 | hratsimihah | Right. |
| 22:54.50 | sumanah | I use y'all a lot. |
| 22:54.56 | bbc | sumanah: uncomfortably? to me it's rather more comfortable I'd say |
| 22:55.05 | hratsimihah | Isn't it informal, if American English has such a thing as informality? |
| 22:55.07 | sumanah | Different people are different. |
| 22:55.21 | swook | hratsimihah: I was half joking! |
| 22:55.28 | hratsimihah | Lol. |
| 22:55.38 | swook | but I do find people saying 'you guys' a lot |
| 22:55.48 | swook | in lectures, presentations, etc |
| 22:55.51 | hratsimihah | Right. Even when addressing a group of woman. |
| 22:55.56 | swook | yeah sure |
| 22:56.16 | swook | 'guy' becomes relatively gender neutral in plural form, I found |
| 22:56.23 | sumanah | prefers "you folks" or "y'all" when addressing a group |
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| 22:56.29 | sumanah | swook: not everyone feels that way. |
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| 22:56.48 | hratsimihah | Particularly not women I think. |
| 22:56.50 | hratsimihah | Which makes sense. |
| 22:56.53 | derdon | sumanah: "y'all" is a southern thing, isn't it? |
| 22:56.55 | sumanah | swook: And it grates on me, for instance. I'm not a guy so I feel excluded by "you guys". |
| 22:56.58 | swook | yes, that's very understandable |
| 22:57.07 | sumanah | derdon: It was, and some non-Southerners (including me) sometimes use it. |
| 22:57.20 | derdon | to feel hip and special! :P |
| 22:57.26 | hratsimihah | A group of women I worked with last Summer was fine with being addressed as "guys". |
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| 22:57.32 | sumanah | Yup. Different people are different. |
| 22:57.40 | swook | I think the size of the group matters a lot too |
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| 22:58.04 | hratsimihah | sumanah: My mentor approved that I share my proposal. |
| 22:58.11 | sumanah | hratsimihah: cool! let's take a look. |
| 22:58.31 | hratsimihah | http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2013/hery/7001 |
| 22:58.35 | derdon | in Germany, it's often the other way round: it's common to jokingly address to a group of boys as "Mädels" (south German dialect for girls) |
| 22:58.37 | hratsimihah | sumanah: thank you for your time. |
| 22:58.48 | sumanah | hratsimihah: You are welcome. "Pay it forward" as the saying goes. :) |
| 22:59.03 | sumanah | so hratsimihah - linking consistently would be good |
| 22:59.15 | sumanah | for instance, your GitHub projects - go ahead and make all the URLs into hyperlinks |
| 22:59.23 | hratsimihah | Gotcha. |
| 22:59.36 | sumanah | hratsimihah: "I will likely be traveling a bit" - more specifics would be good in my opinion |
| 22:59.50 | carldani | We (coreboot, a project creating a free x86/ARM firmware replacing BIOS/EFI) are desperately looking for people doing low-level development for us during GSoC. Apparently we scared too many would-be students by telling them that we expect them to know C really well. |
| 23:00.33 | carldani | Not in the sense that we need C99/C11 language lawyers, but people who can read/write C without someone holding their hands. |
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| 23:01.24 | sumanah | carldani: from the fact that you're here I presume you're okay with last-minute applicants who haven't touched coreboot before. True? |
| 23:01.28 | hratsimihah | carldani: it may late for students to start a proposal now, no? |
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| 23:01.36 | hratsimihah | be* |
| 23:01.57 | sumanah | carldani: including students who would not have time to actually write up a timeline of deliverables before the deadline in ~20 hours. |
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| 23:02.17 | sumanah | hratsimihah: "email content reading" but not writing? similarly, FB/Twitter - just reading, or also posting? |
| 23:03.14 | hratsimihah | sumanah: yes, these are features I discussed with my mentor. |
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| 23:03.25 | sumanah | hratsimihah: "I spent the entire Summer of 2012 working at Stanford University to develop a campus tour app called Stanford Walking Tour. It is available in the App Store." is the source available? can you talk about how big it is? |
| 23:03.36 | sumanah | hratsimihah: you should specify in the proposal, then, too |
| 23:03.43 | carldani | sumanah, hratsimihah: well, the _timeline_ of deliverables is less important than reading up on http://coreboot.org what we do and what our possible GSoC projects are. It helps if you are familiar with how hardware works. |
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| 23:04.04 | hratsimihah | sumanah: that makes sense, thank you. The Stanford app is closed-source, but I can talk about its size. |
| 23:04.23 | sumanah | carldani: I am not thinking of applying myself. I'm thinking of passing the word along to other people who thought they didn't have a chance since they heard about this really late. |
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| 23:05.05 | carldani | GSoC project ideas for coreboot: http://www.coreboot.org/Project_Ideas http://www.coreboot.org/GSoC |
| 23:05.32 | carldani | having some students with an engineering background would be nice |
| 23:05.36 | hratsimihah | I'll look into this tomorrow. |
| 23:06.10 | AlexanderS | www.coreboot.org does not respond via ipv6 but have an AAAA record |
| 23:06.14 | flaushy | 19 hrs to go hratsimihah |
| 23:06.38 | josko | By the way - I wish all participants good luck with their proposals. |
| 23:06.48 | derdon | thank you, josko :) |
| 23:07.10 | derdon | flaushy: almost twenty hours |
| 23:07.16 | vvu|Mobile | wishes everybody to use the source! |
| 23:07.45 | hratsimihah | flaushy: I have the day off tomorrow. |
| 23:08.02 | derdon | vvu|Mobile: reminds me of a discussion I had with another developer |
| 23:08.04 | hratsimihah | Thank you josko josko ! |
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| 23:08.20 | derdon | vvu|Mobile: "you don't need to write documentation if you can read the source" |
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| 23:08.33 | hratsimihah | carldani: all your project's are very low-level indeed. |
| 23:08.38 | hratsimihah | projects* |
| 23:08.52 | sumanah | ok carldani I'm spreading the word. |
| 23:09.35 | carldani | AlexanderS: oh. thanks for the heads-up, I'll get our admin to fix it. apparently the web server update broke listening on ipv6. |
| 23:09.42 | carldani | sumanah: thanks! |
| 23:09.56 | sumanah | hratsimihah: ok, back to talking about your proposal |
| 23:10.00 | hratsimihah | :) |
| 23:10.39 | carldani | Do you want to hack chromebook firmware? Come to coreboot, that's what most chromebooks run. |
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| 23:11.28 | sumanah | hratsimihah: "Clean code, tests, and documentation" seems to me you don't have enough time for that |
| 23:11.45 | hratsimihah | sumanah: It's just cleaning, not writing. |
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| 23:12.04 | hratsimihah | I already allocated a week or two for each trimester. |
| 23:12.16 | hratsimihah | To write doc and tests. You still think it won't be enough? |
| 23:12.21 | sumanah | hratsimihah: aha, I was misreading - "clean code" + (write) tests & docs |
| 23:12.35 | hratsimihah | Oh, good to know, thank you. |
| 23:12.41 | sumanah | hratsimihah: perhaps "polish" is better than "clean" |
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| 23:12.57 | hratsimihah | Gotcha, thanks. I actually quoted Google on that one. :p |
| 23:13.01 | sumanah | hratsimihah: "clean" is both an adjective and a verb |
| 23:13.12 | hratsimihah | That does make it confusing. |
| 23:13.15 | ojwb | and a noun |
| 23:13.39 | sumanah | so: "polish code, improve tests, and proofread documentation"? |
| 23:13.59 | sumanah | ojwb: can you use it in a sentence as a noun? I can't make it work. |
| 23:14.17 | ojwb | sumanah: I gave everything a good clean |
| 23:14.39 | sumanah | refrains from becoming a prescriptivist. OK. |
| 23:14.53 | sumanah | hratsimihah: at the end of your proposal there is a strange fontsize change |
| 23:14.58 | sumanah | can you see it? |
| 23:15.32 | hratsimihah | Yes. I can't change the font/size of pasted text. |
| 23:15.57 | hratsimihah | OSX dictionary doesn't list *clean* as a noun. |
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| 23:16.09 | sumanah | hratsimihah: some of your [1]-style footnotes are hyperlinks and others aren't. Personally I would prefer, while reading a text, to have the hyperlinks at my fingertips, so I don't have to scroll down and back up all the time. |
| 23:16.26 | hratsimihah | Noted. |
| 23:16.33 | Triskelios | clean[ing] |
| 23:16.40 | sumanah | People stretch language and use it in innovative ways sometimes. I can deal with that. I just get Postel's Law about it, again |
| 23:16.42 | hratsimihah | I'm logging all your feedback. |
| 23:17.07 | ojwb | hratsimihah: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/clean#Noun FWIW |
| 23:17.39 | sumanah | hratsimihah: ok. So, localisation. Do you have any plans for how to deal with non-English languages? does Privly have guidelines for i18n? |
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| 23:17.46 | sumanah | (internationalisation) |
| 23:19.03 | hratsimihah | sumanah: That's not part of my project. Should I add it to "future work"? |
| 23:19.10 | sumanah | hratsimihah: Yes, I think so |
| 23:19.19 | hratsimihah | Or is it important enough that it should be integrated in my timeline? |
| 23:19.33 | sumanah | hratsimihah: at what points will you have regular users testing what you have built, or do "paper prototype" testing (perhaps as part of the initial design phase) with regular users (not developers)? |
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| 23:19.59 | sumanah | hratsimihah: Personally I am keenly aware of the fact that if you don't start your codebase i18n-aware then it's extra-difficult to do properly later. |
| 23:20.00 | hratsimihah | Aren't unit/acceptance tests enough? |
| 23:20.37 | sumanah | hratsimihah: here's an example. Are you planning on having the "help" or "post" or "delete" buttons in your applications be marked off with simple strings like "help" or "post" or "delete" hardcoded in your app? |
| 23:21.34 | sumanah | hratsimihah: or will you refer to particular messages, with a reference to a file MessagesEn, MessagesFr, MessagesPt etc. per language preference? |
| 23:21.49 | hratsimihah | If it's still about localization, the iOS SDK lets developer handle it efficiently, but I have never localized an app. |
| 23:21.58 | hratsimihah | If not, then yes, my strings are hardcoded. |
| 23:23.14 | sumanah | hratsimihah: In my opinion you should say something in your proposal about this topic - even if it's just "I believe the iOS SDK will take care of making my app localisable for me, but if not then I will follow Privly's guidelines" |
| 23:24.05 | hratsimihah | All right. I'll ask my mentor what he thinks of it as well. |
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| 23:24.16 | sumanah | Since it's an open source app you could use translatewiki.net or transifex to crowdsource translations of the messages your app uses |
| 23:25.00 | hratsimihah | That's really helpful, thanks. |
| 23:25.02 | sumanah | hratsimihah: at what points will your code undergo security reviews? |
| 23:25.29 | schumaml | wow, an iOS app in gsoc? not a gpl'ed one, I guess? |
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| 23:25.48 | hratsimihah | MIT license. |
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| 23:26.42 | hratsimihah | I was surprised about seeing such a project too. :) |
| 23:26.46 | sumanah | btw hratsimihah in the "why would you like to help the Privly project" section, if you currently use Privly, it'd be nice to mention it. |
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| 23:27.27 | sumanah | hratsimihah: also, somewhere in the proposal, you should probably mention whether you have an iPhone or other iOS device, and how you plan on doing the final manual testing (on that device?) |
| 23:28.07 | hratsimihah | Exactly, thank you! |
| 23:29.01 | sumanah | btw, hratsimihah, when you're writing this code, you're going to have to deal with a lot of different charactersets -- that's another thing to consider either explicitly saying you'll be able to deal with or explicitly delaying ("that's for the future") |
| 23:29.14 | sumanah | I mean, people will be reading & writing & posting content in lots of charsets |
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| 23:30.15 | sumanah | hratsimihah: completely separately: personally I would really like it if you had a bit in the proposal where you talked about seeking security review of your design and another bit where you sought a security review of your app. https://crypto.is/ is a resource you could use here |
| 23:30.53 | sumanah | hratsimihah: crypto.is specifically cares a lot about email privacy and about providing architecture review |
| 23:31.04 | hratsimihah | I'll look into it. |
| 23:31.28 | hratsimihah | And add the different character sets to future work. |
| 23:31.49 | sumanah | hratsimihah: have you ever heard the phrase "threat model" (regarding infosec)? |
| 23:32.06 | hratsimihah | I'd remain the maintainer of the project after GSoC, so it's good to have these features written down. |
| 23:32.09 | hratsimihah | Thank you. |
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| 23:32.47 | hratsimihah | sumanah: my laptop is dying, so I need to go, but I'll be back soon. |
| 23:33.01 | sumanah | hratsimihah: this is really key - what is your threat model? what happens if the user loses their phone? |
| 23:33.05 | hratsimihah | Feel free to leave me more feedback if you wish, I'd be most appreciated and I'm logging it all. |
| 23:33.20 | hratsimihah | They may have to log in everytime they want to use the app. |
| 23:33.36 | hratsimihah | it'd* |
| 23:33.41 | sumanah | hratsimihah: doing some minimal spec or thinking about that would be good. |
| 23:33.46 | hratsimihah | Gotcha. |
| 23:34.08 | sumanah | are you defending against state-level threats? or whom? |
| 23:34.17 | sumanah | anyway, crypto.is and your mentors can talk about that |
| 23:34.20 | sumanah | bye! |
| 23:34.46 | sumanah | mentions accessibility |
| 23:35.00 | hratsimihah | I am not familiar with state-level threats, but I will look into it. |
| 23:35.01 | sumanah | I really don't know, actually, what the current guidelines are re a11y in iOS or other mobile apps |
| 23:35.29 | hratsimihah | will be back soon. |
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| 23:42.19 | diggy | Hi! |
| 23:42.29 | sumanah | hi diggy |
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| 23:48.24 | diggy | hi sumanah |
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| 23:51.55 | sumanah | good luck, good night |
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