IRC log for #gsoc on 20130923

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03:05.07mymy_!next
03:05.17mymy_!logs
03:05.18gsocbotmymy_: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/
03:05.21gsocbotmymy_: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
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08:09.56introom!timeline
08:09.56gsocbotintroom: "timeline" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2013
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11:44.46yimyomHi gsoc mentors
11:45.03yimyomI have a question for my student and I realized I have no answer !!!!! Despite searching the FAQ
11:45.11Achillionis not a mentor so will not say hi back.
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11:45.31yimyommy student wants to submit his final code today but we don't know where it has to be done ?
11:46.01yimyomany clue ?
11:47.22gevaertsyimyom: I'm assuming that an upload form or instructions will appear on the site as soon as the official code submission period starts
11:48.25yimyomthe official period starts today. That's why I'm surprised I saw nothing !
11:48.34AchillionFriday
11:48.38AchillionIs when code submission starts
11:48.57gevaertsThe *evaluation* period starts today, but even that is not open *now*
11:49.09gevaertsrecommends looking at the timeline
11:50.00yimyommakes sense indeed.
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11:51.25AchillionIt's ok, I thought I read every FAQ twice and the other day I was asking about stuff on the FAQ too :)
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12:07.21kai!next
12:07.24gsocbotkai: "next" is September 23, 19:00 UTC: Firm 'pencils down' date. Mentors, students and org admins can begin submitting final evaluations.
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13:27.40revaneHow does one recover their password for gsoc-wiki.osuosl.org?
13:28.06revaneIt's not accepting what I think my password should be...
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13:35.32JordiGHrevane: Ask in the mentors' list?
13:35.43revaneOh, I thought that's what this was:P
13:35.50JordiGHNo, this is public.
13:35.56JordiGHThe mentors' list is private.
13:36.03revaneHa. More passwords:P
13:36.04gevaertsThis isn't a mailing list for starters :)
13:36.30JordiGHThe very existence of gsoc-wiki.osuosl.org is supposed to be s00p3r s3kr1t!
13:36.38JordiGH... I think, anyways.
13:36.50gevaertsKeeping a secret in gsoc is *easy*
13:37.02*** join/#gsoc pcmattman (znc@pdpc/supporter/student/pcmattman)
13:37.02gevaertsJust mention it in the timeline or the faq :)
13:37.12JordiGHHehe...
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13:52.05Achillionnow knows the secret
13:52.38Achillionattempts to type in random passwords on the wiki - fails - gets banned - fails GSoC - cries.
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15:09.20notdangevaerts: touche
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15:38.04carolsserves some finals tea and coffee
15:38.34aghislaserves final cake
15:38.50carolsthanks aghisla
15:39.04paultagnoms
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15:39.13aghislathanks for drinks :) I'll take tea
15:39.13gevaertschomps
15:39.21meflinmm tea
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15:40.21AchillionEverything's so ... final
15:45.13jjs1'final cake' sounds dangerous :-)
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16:06.55dberkholzmorning folks
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16:08.57carolshey dberkholz
16:09.06dberkholzhiya
16:09.11jjs1wonders if carols is busy writing an email to send on the hour.
16:09.29carolsjjs1: you seem to think carol waits until the last minute for anything. she wrote that email 3 weeks ago :-)
16:09.44dberkholzjust forward the one from last year
16:09.56jjs1carols: Oh! hehe
16:10.32meflinwaiting until the last minute is not how you heard cats ;)
16:11.02jjs1meflin: Or not how you get ahead as a cat-herder :)
16:11.09aghislaheards a distant meow
16:11.35gevaertscarols: jjs1 is a student, so assuming you do things at the last minute is just natural :)
16:11.47jjs1That's right. :-)
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16:12.05carolsgevaerts: yes, most people wait until the last minute if the evaluation and application submissions for gsoc are any indication :-)
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16:12.59carolsmy drafts email folder is full of all sorts of emails for the whole year :_0
16:13.00carols:-)
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16:13.33jjs1Oh wow. I don't think I'll ever be able prepare like that ^^
16:13.54Achillionis finishing up some documentation.
16:14.10jjs1And so perhaps I'll never run a programme like this :)
16:14.17AchillionI'm sorry, what are we talking about? :)
16:14.31jjs1Me too Achillion :)
16:14.32carolsAchillion: the fact that i plan ahead.
16:14.55meflinpeople who can run programs like this do not just fall out of tree's :D
16:14.55AchillionYes, I can imagine that kind of planning is a requirement when running a program like this.
16:15.07gevaertsAchillion: to be fair, it's not the last minute yet. You have more than two and a half *hours* left! :)
16:15.33jjs1gevaerts: 45 minutes by my watch. :-S
16:16.18jjs1Oh, I'm wrong.
16:16.18gevaertsjjs1: in that case, welcome to Timezones 101 :)
16:16.19Achilliongevaerts: Heh. Great. Just what I need. Now I feel like I have all the time in the world and might take a break :D
16:16.20carolsjjs1: your watch is wrong.
16:16.40jjs1I got the fields wrong in the time zone converter :)
16:17.24AchillionI'll probably to it tomorrow morning though (the eval)
16:17.40jjs1wonders what he can achieve in 2 and a half hours
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16:18.09AchillionCause 22:00 just doesn't feel like form-filling time
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16:19.20carolsi'll talk that as a compliment, meflin
16:19.21carols:-)
16:19.29carolsthat i didn't fall from a tree.
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16:19.48meflinheh :D
16:21.15meflinthat reminds I need to get my tea organized
16:21.34jjs1I'll miss this channel. I'll have to make my own internet-tea and internet-coffee after this week. :-(
16:22.04meflinwhy you dont like us enough to make for us during the off season?
16:22.28AchillionI don't think the channel gets locked after we're done.
16:22.47AchillionOr does everyone just leave?
16:22.55paultagit gets quiet
16:23.08paultagbut it's still here. Used for code-in, too, I think
16:23.23meflinmentors and admin's hibernate so they can be more cranky at the start of the season
16:23.26paultagnom
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16:28.17ManojKumarHi, I worked on my GSoC a bit before the official coding period.
16:28.26ManojKumarIs it okay if I submit that too?
16:29.54MatthewWilkesManojKumar: Yes
16:30.53jjs1Do GSoC students often become GSoC mentors?
16:30.57somaenManojKumar: Likely the end results is a superset of that earlier work, and thus hard to split
16:31.51aghislajjs1: sometimes even admins!
16:32.22ManojKumargreat, thanks :)
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16:32.35ManojKumarjjsl: My org admin is a previuos GSoC student :)
16:32.40ManojKumarjjs1*
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16:44.13AchillionWelp. Gotta run. Have fun with your evaluations.
16:47.23chrotoday we just have to answer the questionnaire ?
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16:49.01carolschro: yes
16:49.27chrothank you
16:49.32chro:)
16:49.45carolsyw
16:50.08chroI enjoyed so much this program :) I'm very happy
16:50.41nikhatzidoes anyone feels that (s)he would like to keep coding on the project after gsoc is over?
16:51.09dfighteryou don't?
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16:51.16scorche|shit is our hope that many students feel that way and continue to contribute  ;)
16:51.19nikhatzii do, that's why i ask if others feel the same
16:51.42dfighterI sure do
16:51.44chroI feel the same :)
16:51.52dfighterbut then I'm a long time open source contributor
16:51.54dfighterso it's nothing new
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16:52.16chrohowever I've been spending more time on my project than on my work, and I have to be careful
16:52.38nikhatzibut... for me, gsoc is my work for the summer
16:52.44nikhatziyou get paid after all
16:52.50dfighterthat's how it's supposed to be...
16:52.58dfightersince it's considered a full time job
16:54.02chroyes, and it was, I'm just talking in the beginning of September, when I started to work again
16:54.10dfighterah
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16:54.35dfighterwell when you work on an open source project it's easy to forget about other stuff
16:54.44nikhatzi+1
16:54.53dfighterI myself sacrificed lots of school time on one of the projects I used to work a lot on
16:55.04nikhatzi+1000000 :P
16:55.14dfighterwhich means years of my life
16:55.20dfighterbut then I didn't regret it
16:55.24dfighterlearned a lot
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16:56.04dfighterbut then now it's coming back to haunt me, as I am running out of sponsored school time :P
16:56.04nikhatziat least my gf has a lot of understanding, and didn't freak out with me working all summer in front of my computer :P
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16:56.50dfighteroh my "girlfriend" ( more of a mistress, since it's based on sex ) was QQing a lot
16:56.56dfighterthat I don't spend enough time with her
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16:57.03nikhatzioO
16:57.33dfightershe even dumped me twice, then asked herself back :D
16:57.59dfighteronce in march and once ~3 weeks ago
16:58.37chrolol
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17:00.51aghislaAre you sure these details are on topic here? Remember also that there are ~300 people, the channel is logged, and internet never forgets... choose wisely what to write.
17:01.50nikhatzi+1
17:01.53nikhatzi:P
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17:02.14dfighteraghisla, these are just some small details, I don't see how these could hurt me tbh
17:02.25dfighterit's just some smalltalk...
17:02.28aghislawell, what about the topic of the channel then?
17:02.31scorche|sheither way, your "mistress" info doesnt need to be in here
17:02.40nikhatzismalltalk? where did you remember this... :P
17:03.40dfighteraghisla, that's a fair point, however if we were to strictly just talk about GSOC we'd really never talk
17:03.48dfighterother than to shoo people off who can't read the FAQ
17:04.02dfighterI just shared some GSOC related experience...
17:05.26aghislaI still think that the details are not on topic.
17:05.53nikhatzidfighter, tbh that was an awkward moment :P
17:06.02dfighteraghisla, please make a list of allowed details then
17:06.03dfighterthanks
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17:07.04carolsdfighter: i will kick you if necessary. that was completely inappropriate.
17:07.16aghislait will be unuseful, I think that is something heuristic. think that you have a microphone and 300 people in an auditorium, and a camera that records everything. And it is not a show.
17:07.33carolsdfighter: aghisla doesn't need to provide you anything.
17:07.44carolsall we need to do is say it's not on topic, and that's when you drop it.
17:07.54carolsif you don't like that, you're not required to be in here.
17:08.07dfightercarols, I don't see aghisla opped tho
17:08.13carolsdfighter: doesn't matter.
17:08.20carolsanything that makes anyone uncomfortable is off limits
17:08.25carolsthis is a community
17:08.28carolsnot a hierarchy
17:08.29dfighterI understand that
17:08.33carolsdfighter: great.
17:08.41carolslet's move on and hope it never happens again
17:09.02dfighterhowever I didn't see aghisla state that what I said made s/he uncomfortable
17:09.14carolsdfighter: doesn't matter.
17:09.14dfighterhad s/he said that, I'd have even apologized
17:09.25carolsok, one more response and i'm kicking you.
17:09.26dfightercarols, I'm sorry but it matters to me
17:09.30carolsit matters to me too.
17:09.37carolseither drop it or risk being banned.
17:09.39carolswhat do you prefer?
17:09.56dfighterwell you are right, I'm not required to be here then
17:10.00carolsgreat.
17:10.02dfighterbye
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17:10.16carolsserves some tea
17:10.26aghislathanks carols.
17:10.31carolsyw aghisla
17:10.33nikhatziwould love some tea
17:10.36gevaertsOh, tea!
17:10.38gevaertsdrinks
17:10.39carolsi step away from the computer for one moment....
17:10.40gevaertsThanks
17:10.43nikhatziafter 8 too!
17:10.54aghislalike the  teacher and a classroom :)
17:11.01carolsaghisla: seriously
17:11.03downeymm, tea
17:11.28jjs1I hope I'm not treading on toes: This is a good read for people who need a better understanding of IRC communities: http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml
17:11.30scorche|shits ok - there are more than one "teachers" in here  ;)
17:11.39scorche|shit doesnt help when i have to go off and explain something to someone els ehtough  =/
17:11.54chroit's already 7PM UTC  and I don't see the evaluation in my dashboard
17:11.59gevaertschro: it's not
17:12.06chrooh sorry
17:12.08chromy mistake
17:12.09carolschro: no, it's not.
17:12.17gevaertsenrolls another student to Timezones 101 :)
17:12.30carolsgevaerts: there's been a lot of new students recently :-)
17:12.45jjs1welcome to the club chro :-)
17:12.50gevaertscarols: it's because of all those teachers in this classroom :)
17:13.01carolsgevaerts: probably so :-)
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17:16.32srinupcarols: I updated my shipping address, is it okay or the address labels already printed out?
17:16.45carolssrinup: no, address labels haven't been printed.
17:16.51srinupThanks!
17:16.59carolswe don't know who's passed their finals yet, so we don't know who's going to get a final package.
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17:17.49srinupokay
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17:41.14kblinevening folks
17:42.12notdanhi
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17:48.34jjs1MatthewWilkes: hi! May I PM you RE a previous PM?
17:49.08MatthewWilkesjjs1: Sure
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17:50.23kblinevening carols
17:50.35carolshey kblin, how's it going?
17:51.19kblinhaving fun cutting a video of a theatre performance, so great :)
17:51.37kblinalso smartly avoiding having to work on my dissertation
17:51.49carolsvery nice :-)
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17:56.16carolssigh
17:56.21carolskicks openvpn
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17:56.48kblinwe could ban it if it's giving you trouble...
17:56.53carolsthanks kblin
17:56.58carolsthat won't be necessary...
17:57.01carols…yet.
17:57.08kblin:)
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18:08.20spanWhat should the code samples that students submit to Google contain? Patches? Just any sample? Full code base?
18:09.03*** join/#gsoc nlminhtl (~ignotus@triming-pact.volia.net)
18:09.42kblinspan: I'd send the patches
18:10.39spankblin: yeah, that seems best
18:10.45spankblin: thanks :)
18:11.07kblinmy pleasure
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18:17.35hello_worldare we gonna do countdown ?
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18:17.55hello_world!timeline
18:17.55gsocbothello_world: "timeline" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2013
18:18.04hello_world!next
18:18.06gsocbothello_world: "next" is September 23, 19:00 UTC: Firm 'pencils down' date. Mentors, students and org admins can begin submitting final evaluations.
18:18.15carolshello_world: let's not and say we did.
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18:18.29jjs1hello_world: Pencils down in 40 minutes. There, done. :)
18:19.15hello_worldcountdown for last 10 seconds ..what a moment it will be.
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18:36.11downeycountdowns--
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18:39.23hello_worldwhat if we still code after 19:00 ..?
18:39.27hello_worldany penalty?
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18:40.05carolshello_world: you mean for your org? or are you trying to finish your project until the very last minute?
18:40.25hello_worldboth
18:40.43carolsyes, you can always code for your org. you're supposed to, this is open source.
18:40.56carolsbut no, you can't work on your project anymore. you were supposed to have finished that a week ago
18:41.49hello_worldi get that terms and condition of GSoC but there is always scope to improve
18:42.14carolsindeed, and if you want to do that on a volunteer basis for your org outside of GSoC, please talk to them about it.
18:42.25carolsbut you are being evaluated on what you created as of last week.
18:43.21hello_worldok. thanks. I get it. The timeline is for evaluation purposes only .
18:43.35carolsindeed.
18:43.36hello_worldand that depends on mentor and org admin
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18:44.12carolseverything depends on them.
18:44.27carolsi'm just an adminstrator.
18:44.32carolsa bureaucrat, really
18:45.30aghislacarols: it is awesome how the fractal structure of gsoc enables 1000+ students to work on such a constellation of projects.
18:45.43carolsaghisla: i agree. a really genius idea.
18:45.58carolstoo bad it wasn't mine and i can't take credit for it :-)
18:46.07aghislai see it for OSGeo, my organisation, and every year it is a range of great contributions across 15+ software codebases
18:46.09aghislahehe :)
18:46.31aghislayou deserve credit  for having run these recent editions
18:46.42ankitkvanyone here any good with xfig?
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18:55.04JordiGHankitkv: I used to be. Nowadays I use inkscape.
18:55.07JordiGHOr Dia.
18:55.18hello_worldlet's have countdown
18:56.00jjs1hello_world: it's not a good idea to contravene the word of someone with +o
18:56.02jjs1:)
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19:01.21mr-Aww.. somebody forgot about the countdown
19:04.37hello_worldtimesup..but i don't use pencil (technical argument)
19:05.12paultag:|
19:06.21carolsserves some more tea and coffee
19:06.32carolsgood luck to all the gsoc 2013 students on your final evals :-)
19:06.41jjs1thanks :)
19:06.44kshitij8_ty :)
19:06.52kshitij8_takes some tea
19:07.19rkutakes some coffee
19:07.30rkuone should drink at least 2 litres a day
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19:07.59jjs1has a half-cup of coffee
19:09.07hello_worldtakes some redbull
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19:10.01mhilshey folks. my melange dashboard is broken (student account) - anyone else experiencing this?
19:10.05hello_worldwhere are snacks. (i missed them)
19:12.31carolsmhils: i'd recommend you email the melange folks
19:17.01*** join/#gsoc jbracker (~quassel@dslb-188-108-208-237.pools.arcor-ip.net)
19:19.04jbrackerIs the GSoC page broken oder overloaded? Images do not load and some links do not seem to work.
19:20.06notdanthanks carols
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19:20.59notdanmight as well just submit the evaluations a little bit later
19:21.07chetna!next
19:21.08gsocbotchetna: "next" is September 23, 19:00 UTC: Firm 'pencils down' date. Mentors, students and org admins can begin submitting final evaluations.
19:21.46hello_worldserver is busy..let it settle down
19:22.06jbrackerok
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19:27.09Raydiationdoes someone else miss the radio buttons in the evaluation sheet?
19:27.20Raydiationis melange broken atm
19:27.22Framedraggeryeah everyone is attacking the server know i guess, give it some time and do not panick :)
19:27.41Framedragger*now i guess
19:27.51Raydiationi see, so they turned it off?
19:28.11Framedraggerdunno. check back later maybe - i'll be doing the same
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19:39.10derdonhmm hmm, what does it say about the students' relationship status if participating in GSoC was "one of the best things they've ever done"? :P
19:39.31kblinlet's not go there again today
19:39.39carolswhat kblin said.
19:40.02meflinmakes more tea
19:40.34derdonsorry
19:40.35carolsthanks meflin
19:40.43*** topic/#gsoc by kblin -> Google Summer of Code is wrapping up.
19:41.12summatusmentiscongratulations to everyone completing GSoC, by the way
19:41.29nikhatzicongratulations :D
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19:41.41jjs1carols: Would you have the time for a quick PM (not related to final evals or Melange)? I've been advised to contact you
19:41.47carolsjjs1: sure
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19:42.13nikhatziit's been a great experience, will be applying next year for sure :D
19:44.21kblinderdon: professionally, GSoC was one of the best things I've ever done, that's for syre
19:44.25kblinsure, as well
19:44.45ManojKumarI feel sad though :( , the time allocated to GSoC would become empty suddenly
19:45.23meflinjust because it is the end of the season is no reason to stop mentoring or coding :)
19:45.38paultagaye!
19:45.43ManojKumarmeflin: thats true enough :)
19:45.54paultagI've been doing F/OSS work nearly every day since Freshman year of College
19:46.01paultagand I've long since graduated
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20:01.33jjs1Good luck to the other students :)
20:02.18aried3rRaydiation: Yeah, same here. Can't finish the final evaluation.
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20:10.03aried3rThe Radiobuttons are there, but opacity is 0.
20:11.06aghislaidea for next year: evaluations are open progressively for orgs in alphabetical order
20:11.33aried3rThen again, it shouldn't be hard for them to handle 1000 concurrent users ;)
20:11.50gevaertsdoesn't understand this
20:12.26gevaertsI mean, the channel is full of students saying they wish gsoc would go on for a bit longer, so where are those people eager to get it all over with coming from?
20:13.30aried3rIt doesn't matter when I evaluate. And it's the firm pencils down date. From now on, everything is voluntarily.
20:13.50aried3rOr is there something specific you want to mention?
20:14.26gevaertsAlso, why do those who prefer to use soft pencils have to stop a week earlier?
20:15.12aried3rHave to?
20:15.42aried3rI don't think they have to. The timeline and Carols mail are very specific as to what "soft" means.
20:15.44derdonaried3r: no problem with the formular here on firefox23
20:16.03gevaertsaried3r: sorry, just bringing out the old jokes a week early :)
20:16.14aried3rderdon: Thanks, it seems the situation is now normal. Works in Chrome now too.
20:16.21aried3rgevaerts: heh
20:16.23aried3rGot me
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20:17.34EnjolrasHi
20:18.19Enjolrasgsoc ends, and i've not received anything :/
20:18.26EnjolrasWhat should I do ?
20:19.01gevaertsEnjolras: as in you didn't get the welcome package?
20:19.20Enjolrasgevaerts: yes. Nor the paycard information
20:19.41EnjolrasMy shipping address is correct, I've just check
20:19.44gevaertscarols: one for you, I think
20:20.59gevaertsEnjolras: carols is the person to talk to, either here or by email
20:21.13EnjolrasOk thanks
20:21.35JordiGHI seem to have a crazy in my bug tracker, but I can't tell if the person is crazy or just having trouble with English as a second language.
20:21.38JordiGHwat do
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20:23.51hello_worldAre we having a After Party ?
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20:24.56meflinI am ... I'm going to celebrate the mentor summit at home by getting sloshed out of respect for fellow admins and mentors
20:25.12meflinthen I'm going to get up early and play vidio games
20:26.36hello_worldvideo games or pc games or ps3
20:26.53meflinlinux games
20:27.20gevaertsWill they be games that were in gsoc?
20:27.24meflinand only games that could do GSOC :D
20:27.48hello_worldlet's play tetris..haha
20:27.51meflingevaerts: probably battle for wesnoth ... I haven't done a round of that in a while
20:28.51hello_worldi am gonna play mario if i get a chance on those old big boxes
20:31.57hello_world!next
20:31.59gsocbothello_world: "next" is September 23, 19:00 UTC: Firm 'pencils down' date. Mentors, students and org admins can begin submitting final evaluations.
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20:40.50derdonis "Bakery mishap?" some joke I don't get?
20:41.15meflinerror no context
20:42.00meflinin my house those are very real and life threatening things
20:44.31derdonok, then it's because of my stupid english skills. I know only these two words separately and it seems they have a totally different meaning when combined.sorry for bothering
20:44.53meflinwell still no context :)
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20:45.27*** mode/#gsoc [+o carols] by ChanServ
20:45.32carolskicks open vpn again
20:45.33meflinmy context is my wife is a baker and when a 2 meter tall rack rolls out of the oven and falls over on your ... its kinda serious ;)
20:45.35derdonthe last question in the formular is: "Anything else you'd like to tell us? Any interesting road blocks that you didn't anticipate? Thunder? Lightning? Tornado? Bakery mishap?"
20:45.57derdon*form
20:45.59JordiGH"formular"? Are you German?
20:46.04meflinah well more normal people then I dont have bakery mishaps because they do not work in a bakery :)
20:46.37derdonJordiGH: yes
20:46.50meflinso its more about the anything interesting or unusual
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20:47.04Enjolrascarols: hi, can I query you ?
20:47.11carolsEnjolras: sure.
20:47.19meflinI'm probably the only one here who thinks bakery mishap's are normal :D
20:47.21carolsi won't mention the fact that asking to query is a query in and of itself.
20:47.34EnjolrasNo it's a hl :]
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21:12.16JordiGHWhy are we getting "GSoC 2014" kids now?
21:12.24JordiGHWas there some advertising going on?
21:12.30carolsJordiGH: nope.
21:12.37carolsbecause they show up around the same time every year.
21:14.09meflina few pop in here all season
21:14.22meflinif they want to get to work I'm all for it :D
21:14.37carolsthey always give me heartburn too because thinking about gsoc 2014 when the mentor summit is happening is all just too much.
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21:15.29meflinpasses over a nice hot tea
21:15.40meflinand an antacid
21:15.41carolsthanks meflin
21:16.17gevaertsBe careful. meflin is just trying to use less tea
21:16.26meflinthat is not true!
21:16.35aghislabrings a straw
21:16.36gevaertsThe antacid will make it look darker!
21:16.39meflinI'm trying to use more tea with more people
21:16.47gevaertsSo you need less :)
21:17.01meflinI'm trying to up my bulk discounts :D
21:18.12gevaertsknows a scam when he sees one ;)
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21:32.46qgil_Hi, are org admins supposed to do a final evaluation of the program as well?
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22:51.15agliodbsthe carping about minutia on the gsoc mentors list continues to astonish me.
22:51.25agliodbswas I ever that obnoxious?
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22:53.51ollywe probably all were
22:54.23ollymy feeling is it's actually improved since they stopping forcing mentors to subscribe
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23:01.25agliodbsemail sent
23:03.10ollyagliodbs: so do you interpret that as meaning the 16th is actually the cut-off date for code submissions?
23:03.23ollyi'm left somewhat confused
23:03.35agliodbsolly: not sure, but the answer to that is to ask a question
23:03.44agliodbsrather than saying "these docs are terrible"
23:03.55ollyyes, I wasn't defending that person at all
23:04.11agliodbsI happen to know that the 16th is not  ahard cutoff from experience
23:04.13ollyjust wondering if the confusion was merely with me
23:04.25agliodbsI agree that the docs don't make tha clear
23:05.24ollyi'm pretty certain the cut-off has been the hard "pencils down" date in the past, but carols' reply seems to say it's the earlier date
23:05.40agliodbsI mean, bajeezus.  It's like google is handing us free money, and people are complaining that the bills are turned the wrong way.
23:05.59agliodbsolly: well, *work* should stop on the 16th, if possible
23:06.08agliodbsolly: but sometimes some follow-up stuff is required
23:06.23ollyi've never been terribly sold on the idea that the last week is the time to write the docs and the tests
23:06.23agliodbswhcih is why the 1-week grace period exists
23:06.51agliodbsolly: good gravy, no!
23:06.55ollythat merely encourages the students to leave those until the end, rather than doign them as they go
23:07.01agliodbsheck, on one of our projecs, the docs/tests took longer than the code
23:10.18derdonolly: I'm one of those who write docs at the end :(
23:10.43derdonat least I wrote the tests before writing the code
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