| 00:11.55 | tierra | we'll have one for wx, but yeah, I think the earlier call for applications might throw a bunch of orgs off a bit |
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| 00:34.59 | meflin | why? |
| 00:36.06 | tierra | just that the application submission period is earlier than it was previous years |
| 00:36.36 | meflin | and it was announced even much earlier |
| 00:37.41 | tierra | sure, just saying that some orgs might still miss that announcement, and wrongly assume it's around the same time as last year |
| 00:38.06 | tierra | they're fault, but I'm sure it'll happen |
| 00:38.43 | meflin | every year orgs and students are always can I have an extra day ( but I'm probably just having one of THOSE Mondays) |
| 00:39.56 | gevaerts | Let's do this properly and start by getting the timezone wrong :) |
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| 00:40.39 | meflin | I wish google-calander TZ'ed for me ( if it does I dont know the settings ) |
| 00:41.36 | umccullough | you set your timezone in the settings |
| 00:41.53 | umccullough | and this: https://support.google.com/calendar/answer/2367918?hl=en |
| 00:46.28 | meflin | hmm that seems to have worked ( I think ) and perhaps made it more confusing |
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| 00:53.28 | umccullough | anything that was put on your calendar when your timezone was wrong would now be wrong |
| 00:54.13 | meflin | well I think its right but it doesn't tell me the TZ on the cal ... so ... |
| 00:58.32 | umccullough | from what i read, the calendar stores everything in UTC |
| 00:58.38 | umccullough | but sets it based on when you add an item |
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| 00:59.02 | umccullough | so, if you had it wrong when you added items (or someone else added stuff to your calendar with the wrong setting on their end), it will be wrong |
| 00:59.43 | umccullough | it should convert any given time back to your timezone when displaying it to you |
| 01:03.10 | tierra | except that he's pulling in the GSoC calendar, they aren't his items |
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| 01:03.26 | tierra | should be fine |
| 01:03.37 | tierra | also, I think it is fine even with your own items |
| 01:04.20 | umccullough | yeah, i dunno what happens when you pull in another calendar - hopefully all its items are UTC already ;) |
| 01:04.40 | tierra | I've taken trips to other timezones, switched out that setting to make it easier while I was there, and everything adjusts just fine |
| 01:05.06 | olly | if the exact hour of the deadline matters, I'd advise consulting the text below the calendar |
| 01:05.17 | umccullough | company i work for made the dismal mistake of storing all their calendar items in a database using PST |
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| 01:05.46 | umccullough | then hacked it to convert from PST to other timezones for our global customers |
| 01:05.48 | umccullough | what a mess |
| 01:06.41 | tierra | I worked on scheduling software for 7 years, I never make that mistake ;) |
| 01:07.12 | umccullough | yeah, they apparently made the mistake of assigning the task of designing the calendaring component to a junior dev |
| 01:07.17 | umccullough | still paying for it |
| 01:07.22 | umccullough | and he's long gone now |
| 01:07.30 | tierra | ugh |
| 01:07.33 | umccullough | yeah. |
| 01:07.39 | tierra | that's a huge mistake too |
| 01:07.54 | tierra | messes up so much |
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| 13:42.22 | narendraj9 | hello everyone! I come here everyday but see no discussions. Why so? |
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| 14:48.21 | VaticanCameos | So the mentor organizations are getting ready to submit their project ideas |
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| 14:54.55 | VaticanCameos | When does this channel come alive anyway? |
| 14:55.30 | derdon | the last minutes before the student's application deadline were quite active last year :D |
| 14:55.33 | gevaerts | Usually whenever someone complains about it being too quiet :) |
| 14:55.50 | derdon | also the moment when students found out whether they are accepted or not |
| 14:55.53 | VaticanCameos | Heh |
| 14:56.48 | VaticanCameos | My friend (who incidentally worked on SciRuby last year in GSoc) says one does not have to be an expert of the programming language to get selected. On what, then, does selection hinge? |
| 14:56.57 | VaticanCameos | The proposal would be one factor. |
| 14:57.27 | gevaerts | Very often communication is key |
| 14:57.59 | VaticanCameos | Could you provide an example, gevaerts? |
| 14:58.51 | derdon | that was just an example of communication :P |
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| 14:59.09 | VaticanCameos | o.O |
| 14:59.20 | VaticanCameos | I mean when communicating with the mentor |
| 14:59.58 | derdon | well, talk about the proposed projects to make sure there are no misunderstandings |
| 15:00.21 | derdon | it's also good if you have some own cool idea which nobody else has |
| 15:01.38 | VaticanCameos | derdon: So the idea is the main factor. |
| 15:01.40 | umccullough | clear motivation, desire to learn, ability to learn, teamwork, etc. |
| 15:01.41 | derdon | if you have problems with something or got stuck -> talk about it and don't be ashamed |
| 15:01.51 | umccullough | there are plenty of factors that can go into selecting a student besides pure skill |
| 15:02.18 | VaticanCameos | umccullough: Basically being aware and alert. |
| 15:02.32 | VaticanCameos | And having a clear picture. |
| 15:02.38 | VaticanCameos | Often tough to conjure ;p |
| 15:02.58 | umccullough | for example, while an org might produce an ideas list for students to choose from, some of the best students are the ones that come up with their own - it shows initiative and desire to accomplish something |
| 15:03.32 | umccullough | they may have been lurking around a project, wanting to work on a specific task, and use gsoc as that excuse to get involved ;) |
| 15:03.38 | VaticanCameos | umccullough: But the idea has to be fairly grounded - achievable. Or I'd make a mess of myself. |
| 15:03.44 | umccullough | right |
| 15:03.51 | VaticanCameos | Yes, I've heard of that before... |
| 15:03.57 | VaticanCameos | Prior communication |
| 15:03.57 | umccullough | if the mentors think you're shooting for the moon, they might pass |
| 15:04.46 | umccullough | but still, that's not a requirement - we've had plenty of students select from existing ideas and do fantastic jobs on them |
| 15:04.59 | VaticanCameos | So when should I be active in scouring around an organization's codebase and ideas list? |
| 15:05.06 | VaticanCameos | Hmm |
| 15:05.07 | umccullough | now? |
| 15:05.12 | VaticanCameos | o.O |
| 15:05.23 | umccullough | any time really, i mean the sooner the better :D |
| 15:05.26 | VaticanCameos | But I don't even know the organizations...have they been listed? |
| 15:05.28 | derdon | the motto is: start yesterday :P |
| 15:05.39 | umccullough | well, first, ask an org if they're applying |
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| 15:05.49 | umccullough | if yes, then you can hedge your bets |
| 15:06.00 | umccullough | if you don't have an org in mind yet, you may have to wait |
| 15:06.12 | umccullough | but you can be reasonably certain that past orgs are likely to apply again |
| 15:06.18 | VaticanCameos | Well, I'm completely new. So I don't know which org may be applying. |
| 15:06.56 | derdon | VaticanCameos: you can take a look at what orgs have participated in 2013 |
| 15:07.04 | umccullough | last year's list: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2013 |
| 15:07.10 | VaticanCameos | derdon: Doing that now |
| 15:07.58 | umccullough | also, every year there are projects that must be cut simply because there are too many orgs applying - so you might check a few other past years to get an idea of the full list of possibilities |
| 15:08.43 | derdon | you can also see which concrete projects have been started and probably also finished (I don't remember the success rate, but it's quite big) |
| 15:08.50 | VaticanCameos | umccullough: Understood. Also, will one project be in one single language? Or can there be some parts in different languages? |
| 15:09.16 | umccullough | depends on the project, i guess |
| 15:09.30 | derdon | there may be projects which use many languages, web dev is a good example for that |
| 15:09.37 | VaticanCameos | I see... |
| 15:10.12 | umccullough | some projects have peripheral pieces that may be in different languages, like build systems, testing infrastructures, etc. |
| 15:10.16 | derdon | or some projects that use a language like Ruby or Python and also have C bindings. or many other possible reasons to use multiple languages |
| 15:10.16 | umccullough | *may have |
| 15:10.31 | VaticanCameos | Cool! |
| 15:10.45 | derdon | now the channel is alive :) |
| 15:11.23 | VaticanCameos | :D |
| 15:19.38 | narendraj9 | yes! I see some life now.. :) after days.. thanks..! |
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| 17:17.11 | carols | serves some tea and coffee |
| 17:20.54 | Niharika1 | Coffee is great carols. Need some after all this hard work. :P |
| 17:21.05 | carols | Niharika1: what are you working so hard on? :-) |
| 17:21.15 | Niharika1 | Oh, I´m an OPW intern. |
| 17:21.24 | carols | oh, great :-) |
| 17:21.27 | carols | glad to hear it |
| 17:21.45 | Niharika1 | carols: Are you in the organizing team for OPW too? |
| 17:21.57 | carols | i'm not, no. |
| 17:22.04 | carols | but i do think it's a great program. |
| 17:23.22 | akshata | one moment. opw has started taking internships for 2014? i thought it was out yet |
| 17:25.03 | Niharika1 | akshata: I´m in the December 2013 - March 2014 round. |
| 17:26.15 | akshata | niharika : ping |
| 17:26.31 | Niharika | akshata: Pong. |
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| 17:35.35 | carols | sips some tea |
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| 18:12.42 | carols | only 6 days left until org apps |
| 18:12.48 | carols | i hope we get some new faces this year :-) |
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| 18:31.13 | kblin | carols: I also guess you'll get a lot of old faces... |
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| 18:35.17 | carols | kblin: well, i like that too :-) |
| 18:35.21 | carols | old friends and new |
| 18:35.28 | kblin | :) |
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| 18:39.19 | carols | how have you been, kblin? |
| 18:39.32 | carols | feel like i haven't seen you in ages |
| 18:41.57 | carols | also feel like i've been talking to myself in this channel :-P |
| 18:42.22 | meflin | have some tea |
| 18:42.55 | carols | yes, good idea. |
| 18:43.02 | carols | talking to yourself is easier with a mug of tea. |
| 18:45.37 | kblin | carols: busy. not traveling as much as you did certainly :) |
| 18:45.51 | gevaerts | carols: at least you have someone interesting to listen to :) |
| 18:45.51 | carols | kblin: yeah, the travel has been a little out of control to tell you the truth |
| 18:45.59 | carols | gevaerts: true! i'll never get bored |
| 18:46.02 | carols | or maybe i will |
| 18:46.37 | gevaerts | You shouldn't! |
| 18:46.59 | gevaerts | Just disagree with yourself every now and then to keep things lively :) |
| 18:47.00 | kblin | carols: you people really need to stop dabbling with this google glass nonesense and go invent teleporters |
| 18:47.18 | carols | kblin: we're not allowed to talk about our secret projects :-( |
| 18:47.52 | carols | kblin: are you going to be out in the bay area any time soon? |
| 18:48.12 | carols | or you, gevaerts? |
| 18:48.21 | kblin | carols: unlikely, unless these teleporters hit the market soon |
| 18:48.28 | carols | that's too bad. |
| 18:48.37 | carols | i'll have to ask the team to speed it up a bit |
| 18:49.01 | kblin | I hope I'll be able to scrounge together the day I'll be traveling when going to the gsoc mentor summit |
| 18:49.15 | carols | yep, the mentor summit this year is definitely not to be missed |
| 18:50.56 | kblin | :) |
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| 19:22.43 | gevaerts | carols: rather unlikely |
| 19:25.49 | carols | gevaerts: that's too bad. |
| 19:27.38 | gevaerts | carols: you should have come to fosdem. It's not even going to be freezing apparently! ;) |
| 19:27.44 | carols | riiiiight |
| 19:27.53 | carols | "come to fosdem" he says |
| 19:27.58 | carols | "it won't be freezing" he says |
| 19:27.58 | paultag | hahaha |
| 19:28.04 | paultag | "It'll be fun" he says |
| 19:28.07 | carols | yep |
| 19:28.16 | gevaerts | But it will be! |
| 19:28.23 | gevaerts | It always is :) |
| 19:28.32 | waldi | well. it is not freezing right now, so … |
| 19:28.41 | carols | i did that once, not making that mistake again :-) |
| 19:28.46 | carols | but cat and stephanie will be there :-) |
| 19:28.54 | carols | they can enjoy the "not freezing" with you |
| 19:29.34 | gevaerts | Maybe you brought the cold over. That was the coldest fosdem I remember :) |
| 19:30.47 | carols | yeah, maybe so. there is a polar vortex in the states now that i'm here. |
| 19:31.32 | olly | may I recommend the southern hemisphere at this time of year? |
| 19:31.45 | carols | already took a wonderful trip to australia just two weeks ago |
| 19:32.09 | olly | knows |
| 19:32.18 | carols | it was beautiful. |
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| 19:51.48 | Slurpee | puts on extra sweatshirt/hoodie/jumper |
| 19:52.05 | carols | Slurpee: too cold for you? |
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| 20:49.04 | carols | serves some more tea and coffee |
| 20:51.17 | meflin | hmm I need a new tea in the "usual" rotation I'm getting bored |
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| 22:35.03 | mbenson | hi all, I have a college student child who is interested in participating in GSOC; does anyone know if there is any precedent for or against a parent acting as a GSOC student's mentor? Is there any appearance of impropriety associated with this? |
| 22:35.03 | gcibot | mbenson, hey! |
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| 22:35.27 | carols | mbenson: is your parent going to be a mentor for one of the mentoring organizations? |
| 22:35.41 | meflin | mbenson is the parent |
| 22:35.45 | mbenson | ;) |
| 22:35.48 | carols | great |
| 22:35.56 | carols | will you be a mentor for a participating org? |
| 22:36.30 | carols | thanks for the clarification meflin :-) |
| 22:36.39 | mbenson | I have a longstanding affiliation with apache.org, and could mentor a GSOC project for any Apache project I am knowledgeable about. |
| 22:37.00 | meflin | the admins of your org might have a better answer |
| 22:37.15 | meflin | I would never knowingly allow this in my orgs |
| 22:37.20 | mbenson | that's fine as well, just didn't know if this was territory that would already have been covered |
| 22:37.25 | carols | great. then i think you participate with apache, whoever the student is applies as he/she normally would, and if apache decides that you are the best mentor and he/she is the best student for the project, great. |
| 22:37.40 | carols | but i hope apache considers the ramifications of whether you can be objective :-) |
| 22:37.52 | carols | but that's up to them. |
| 22:37.59 | carols | i trust their org admins' judgement. |
| 22:38.07 | carols | (should they be accepted) |
| 22:38.19 | mbenson | good point, the drama if at the end of it you have to say "sorry kid, you failed" ;) |
| 22:38.29 | carols | indeed. |
| 22:38.59 | meflin | there is also the question of a pass that isn't deserved ( no mater what the mentor files its 'up for question' |
| 22:39.06 | carols | indeed. |
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| 22:39.14 | carols | but that's why the org gets to decide. |
| 22:39.26 | carols | lots of questions for them to wrestle with :-) |
| 22:40.07 | mbenson | my point being that there are three potential outcomes: 1. a pass that is deserved (desirable); 2. a pass that is not deserved (impropriety); 3. failure that is deserved |
| 22:40.23 | mbenson | presumably failure-not-deserved wouldn't ordinarily enter the picture |
| 22:40.25 | meflin | 4 a failure that is not deserved |
| 22:40.32 | carols | indeed. a conversation to most definitely have with apache when and if they decide that the student proposal needs to be mentored by you. |
| 22:40.39 | meflin | parents can be hard |
| 22:40.50 | mbenson | meflin: point taken |
| 22:41.06 | mbenson | I can seem hypercritical of my kids, come to that |
| 22:41.15 | meflin | most of these issue go away if someone else mentors the child and you mentor some other project |
| 22:41.23 | mbenson | certainly |
| 22:41.25 | summatusmentis | these all seem like issues when any given mentor is not acting in good-faith |
| 22:41.37 | gevaerts | It should be possible to find a suitable co-mentor who may not know the code involved as well, but who *is* able to judge the work |
| 22:42.00 | meflin | true |
| 22:42.09 | mbenson | has this ground been explicitly covered, or are these mostly off-the-cuff thoughts? |
| 22:42.21 | meflin | first i've ever ran into it |
| 22:42.42 | meflin | my thoughts are first impression |
| 22:43.04 | mbenson | I suspect it's implicitly considered raises-flags-at-best |
| 22:43.30 | carols | mbenson: what's the reason for asking us? are you concerned apache won't deal with it properly or make the right decision? |
| 22:43.30 | mbenson | particularly as relatives of Google employees are ineligible to participate at all |
| 22:43.43 | carols | mbenson: yes, that's true, but that's for entirely separate reasons. |
| 22:44.14 | meflin | not every ethical situation can be considered in advance of its happening |
| 22:44.18 | mbenson | I thought I could possibly bring it to the mentoring org (here ASF) but if it was ground that had been covered, didn't see the point in not going directly to the source |
| 22:44.49 | carols | mbenson: well, if you're asking if it's against the terms of the program, the answer is no. the agreements are publicly available if you'd like me to send them over. |
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| 22:45.13 | carols | if you're wondering if it's been addressed before in another org, my answer is: i have no idea. i don't know the mentors each personally, so i have no idea. |
| 22:45.29 | meflin | why do you want to step into a gray area ? |
| 22:45.32 | carols | but this is why we choose orgs so carefully: because we trust their judgement on these matters. |
| 22:45.33 | mbenson | :) |
| 22:45.50 | mbenson | @meflin wrt "gray area" |
| 22:46.16 | meflin | its simple to hand the child off to a different mentor that way there is no hint of conflict of interst |
| 22:46.29 | mbenson | I am leaning in that direction myself, TBH |
| 22:46.35 | gevaerts | Personally I'd at least go with a co-mentor from the start |
| 22:47.02 | meflin | it should be simple to mentor you own child "off the books" as it where |
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| 22:47.22 | mbenson | both of these statements are quite reasonable and are IMO nearly equivalent |
| 22:48.09 | mbenson | *I* know I'm not going to do the work for him should he be accepted |
| 22:48.28 | gevaerts | You're a *bad* parent! ;) |
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| 22:48.35 | meflin | also this is one of the most interesting questions I've ever seen in this channel ;) |
| 22:48.38 | mbenson | gevaerts: probably :) |
| 22:48.56 | mbenson | you'd think it would have come up before |
| 22:49.12 | meflin | not in the last 4 years that I have seen |
| 22:49.22 | mbenson | my son is actually an engineering student, so his involvement with code is more incidental |
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| 22:49.36 | mbenson | but he needs to become strong(er) in that area anyway |
| 22:49.53 | meflin | you _are_ a bad parent ;) |
| 22:50.23 | mbenson | for not making him be a software guy straight out? |
| 22:50.32 | meflin | you missed the winky |
| 22:50.45 | mbenson | no, I saw it |
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| 22:51.04 | meflin | humor on irc always goes bad |
| 22:51.15 | mbenson | no, no offense taken |
| 22:52.10 | mbenson | my parenting was always unorthodox so by some measures could have been taken as bad, but we're pretty satisfied with the men we've raised, so it's all turned out okay |
| 22:53.29 | mbenson | thanks all for your input here |
| 22:55.54 | carols | serves some tea and biscuits |
| 22:56.31 | derdon | oh, even biscuits! thank you |
| 22:56.40 | mbenson | wondered if carols might be British or similar using "judgement" spelling |
| 22:56.43 | derdon | takes one biscuit |
| 22:56.50 | mbenson | (which I actually prefer to US spelling) |
| 22:56.54 | carols | mbenson: nope, not british. just an anglophile. :-) |
| 22:56.58 | mbenson | ha |
| 22:57.03 | mbenson | "similar" |
| 22:57.18 | meflin | when prefaced with tea "biscuits" is fairly clear |
| 22:57.20 | mbenson | congrats on successfully coming across |
| 22:57.48 | derdon | I don't care if someone serves cakes, cookies or biscuits. I take them all :D |
| 22:57.53 | mbenson | I'm not an anglophile per se, but when it comes to that one word... "judgment" just irritates me |
| 22:58.22 | derdon | mbenson: :O you can't even pronounce that word as it's written |
| 22:58.38 | carols | agreed. |
| 22:59.22 | mbenson | actually I have a suspicion of anglophiles, having had a girlfriend in high school who once took a 2-week vacation to England and miraculously "developed" a British accent in this timeframe |
| 22:59.33 | mbenson | this was actually before we dated and I hadn't known about it |
| 22:59.47 | meflin | have one of the cookies |
| 22:59.50 | mbenson | later she was exposed to a guy with a Russian accent and amazingly, her British accent returned! |
| 22:59.55 | mbenson | ;/ |
| 23:00.01 | carols | i have some friends who develop southern accents whenever they speak to southerners. |
| 23:00.11 | olly | she went on a 2-week vacation, and returned from a fortnight's holiday |
| 23:00.19 | mbenson | olly: :D |
| 23:00.36 | mbenson | my own southern accent got a lot worse when I got together with my wife |
| 23:00.49 | mbenson | hers got better; we gravitated toward one another |
| 23:02.12 | mbenson | the phenomenon we like is how your speech patterns change when you talk to old people |
| 23:02.37 | mbenson | most people seem to become very bright and positive sounding |
| 23:02.52 | carols | in this channel? |
| 23:02.57 | carols | we're all positive :-) |
| 23:02.57 | mbenson | no, IRL |
| 23:03.01 | carols | ah, right |
| 23:03.13 | mbenson | like when you call your grandmother on the phone or something |
| 23:03.27 | carols | yeah |
| 23:03.39 | mbenson | we knew a guy who was kind of depressed when he realized his kids had started talking to him this way |
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