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| 10:42.18 | sjbalaji | !cookie |
| 10:42.19 | gsocbot | sjbalaji: "cookie" is omnomnom |
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| 11:38.48 | ARNOLD-TELECOM_ | msg Lennie hi Lennie i just join the channel |
| 11:40.47 | ARNOLD-TELECOM_ | whois Lennie |
| 11:41.12 | hjpotter92 | ARNOLD-TELECOM_: You need to prepend `/` |
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| 11:42.35 | ARNOLD-TELECOM_ | whois hjpotter92 |
| 11:43.53 | ARNOLD-TELECOM_ | whois hjpotter92 |
| 11:45.02 | hjpotter92 | now try /whois |
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| 11:46.49 | ARNOLD-TELECOM_ | clear |
| 11:47.21 | Arthur_D | ABORT MISSION |
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| 12:05.29 | Lennie | Arthur_D, lol :) |
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| 12:10.39 | Arthur_D | funniest thing was that he was named Arnold. "Get down! They're tryink to kill you!" |
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| 12:16.33 | rekha | can a student propose a project |
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| 12:33.16 | Niharika | Hello! |
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| 12:39.03 | atdesantis | Morning |
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| 13:35.39 | vultraz_old | Allos |
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| 15:02.28 | atriou1 | 'morning o/ |
| 15:02.33 | atriou1 | Popular place. :) |
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| 15:04.47 | atriou1 | Question: An organization wants to mentor a GSoC student and have them contribute to an open source project managed by a different organization. Can this work? My reading of the GSoC documentation suggests that it's not likely. (http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page#1._How_does_a_mentoring_organization) |
| 15:05.23 | gevaerts | I think you can technically do that |
| 15:05.34 | gevaerts | But it sounds like a risky thing |
| 15:06.43 | atriou1 | How does one address the definition of "mentoring organization" here? http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page#1._What_is_a_mentoring_organization |
| 15:06.58 | atriou1 | It says "Mentoring organizations must have already produced and released software under an OSI approved licence in order to participate..." |
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| 15:08.21 | gevaerts | isn't sure what the problem is with that line |
| 15:08.36 | atriou1 | I'm sorry. I'm probably not being clear. |
| 15:09.17 | atriou1 | For large open source projects, such as those managed by Mozilla, other organizations often participate and contribute to those projects, but they do not maintain them or release them and so on. |
| 15:09.30 | atriou1 | Organization 1 might contribute code to Firefox because it is useful to their organization in some way. |
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| 15:09.51 | atriou1 | For example, a government-sponsored organization might create a localization of Firefox in the language of their nation. |
| 15:10.13 | atriou1 | That localization gets incorporated into the Firefox project, managed and released by Mozilla. |
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| 15:11.02 | atriou1 | My reading of the "what is a mentoring organization" says things like "A group running an active free/open source software project", and the line above. |
| 15:11.13 | atriou1 | In this example, the government-sponsored organization does not do that. |
| 15:11.17 | gevaerts | Right |
| 15:11.36 | gevaerts | So such an organisation wouldn't match the criteria, I suspect |
| 15:11.54 | atriou1 | So my question is, can such an organization, like the government-sponsored organization, apply to be a mentoring organization, get its own students, mentor them, and have the code produced go to another organization's code base such as Mozilla? |
| 15:12.10 | atriou1 | That's what I figured, but I thought it would be worth asking as there are many such organizations. |
| 15:13.11 | gevaerts | You'll have to ask carols if you need an official answer, but I expect the answer to be no |
| 15:13.37 | atriou1 | Ok, thanks. :) |
| 15:13.53 | atriou1 | May be something interesting to discuss for potential expansion in future years. |
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| 17:12.00 | carols | serves some tea and coffee |
| 17:13.05 | kblin | hey carols |
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| 17:13.25 | tachyons | drinking |
| 17:13.30 | kblin | carols: you were looking for me some days ago? |
| 17:16.26 | carols | kblin: i was |
| 17:16.37 | carols | i was wondering if there's a way to limit the number of people who can queue up |
| 17:16.58 | kblin | not yet, but I'm sure I can fix that |
| 17:17.17 | kblin | what number would you have in mind? |
| 17:17.27 | kblin | I could also make it configurable ;) |
| 17:17.36 | carols | kblin: 50 |
| 17:17.56 | carols | i'd like to keep the queue of people for the feedback meeting to a number that won't have me typing in IRC until the next day |
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| 17:18.15 | kblin | very reasonable |
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| 17:18.23 | carols | but i'd like it to stop at 50, not just continue allowing people in, does that make sense? |
| 17:18.57 | kblin | sure |
| 17:19.07 | carols | thanks very much |
| 17:19.33 | meflin | so we are not going for the record for length of meeting this time? ;) |
| 17:19.46 | carols | meflin: we're not. we're also aiming not to give carol an RSI |
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| 17:20.48 | scorche|sh | looks on the calendar to make sure he is free that date |
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| 17:21.45 | kblin | scorche|sh: I'll try to be there at the start of the meeting, but I might need to leave at a bit before 20:00 UTC |
| 17:22.27 | scorche|sh | oh - i'll even be in SF that date - i should have time that day to manage it though |
| 17:22.33 | meflin | its nice that such meetings are considered "valid use of work time" here :D |
| 17:22.57 | carols | scorche|sh: we should get lunch or something :-) |
| 17:23.52 | scorche|sh | carols: i'll be in MTV (though, $EMPLOYER's location, not Google's) on the 27th and then SF on the 28th |
| 17:24.15 | carols | scorche|sh: cool, we should find some time to meet up :-) |
| 17:24.32 | scorche|sh | meetups just get a bit complicated, as i often (for some strange reason) like to save $EMPLOYER money and take public transit |
| 17:25.11 | scorche|sh | as we have discussed before when i have been in town and asked about the feasibility of taking public transit to the googleplex |
| 17:25.58 | carols | okay, fair enough |
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| 17:26.06 | kblin | carols: https://github.com/kblin/supybot-gsoc/issues/5 |
| 17:26.21 | kblin | carols: I'll make sure to make that milestone :) |
| 17:26.23 | carols | excellent, thanks kblin |
| 17:26.32 | kblin | my pleasure |
| 17:26.32 | scorche|sh | carols: not saying we cant - just need to work out something - i should look at how far our office is from yours - probably just a cheap uber away |
| 17:26.49 | carols | scorche|sh: well our office is in sf, so that's a different matter :-) |
| 17:27.00 | scorche|sh | carols: oh - they moved you to SF? |
| 17:27.28 | kblin | scorche|sh: carols has been in SF all the time I've known her :) |
| 17:27.28 | carols | we've been here for about 2 years :-) |
| 17:28.27 | kblin | also has at least one nice place to get lunch in walking distance, probably more :) |
| 17:28.40 | kblin | N=1 for me, so hard to extrapolate |
| 17:29.01 | scorche|sh | oh - i guess i am just used to when lh and team were in MTV =) |
| 17:29.05 | scorche|sh | in that case... |
| 17:29.07 | scorche|sh | looks up things |
| 17:29.17 | carols | scorche|sh: yes, since lh lived in mtv and we all live in sf :-) |
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| 17:30.36 | scorche|sh | hahahaha |
| 17:31.06 | scorche|sh | carols: well, $EMPLOYER's office is on 221 main street |
| 17:31.09 | carols | cool |
| 17:31.16 | scorche|sh | so...the block diagonally from you =) |
| 17:31.22 | carols | excellent |
| 17:31.24 | scorche|sh | that sounds easy to manage |
| 17:32.22 | carols | agreed |
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| 17:33.14 | scorche|sh | carols: the only thing is that it may be a crappy day to get lunch what with the meeting and all - you think we can manage? |
| 17:33.28 | carols | scorche|sh: why don't we just figure it out then? :-) |
| 17:33.33 | carols | i'm happy to play it by ear. |
| 17:33.36 | scorche|sh | sounds good =) |
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| 18:19.41 | Niharika | Goodnight! |
| 18:19.51 | carols | goodnight Niharika |
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| 18:46.44 | carols | serves some more tea and coffee |
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| 18:50.32 | kblin | yay :-) |
| 18:50.52 | carols | i'm having a really wonderful latte myself :-) |
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| 18:52.34 | dberkholz | i tend to prefer beer with lunch, but i guess it's a bit earlier over that way. |
| 18:52.43 | carols | not even 11am yet :-) |
| 18:52.55 | dberkholz | anyone here gonna be at strata (san jose area) by any chance? |
| 18:54.06 | kblin | dberkholz: unfortunately the beer popular here is kölsch, which takes getting used to |
| 18:54.36 | dberkholz | i like a good kölsch |
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| 18:55.20 | kblin | on the plus side, there's 16 different breweries producing kölsch in town, so we're currently running an experiment to find out what the best type is :) |
| 18:55.24 | dberkholz | carols: do you know if any of the big data projects have ever done anything in gsoc? |
| 18:55.38 | carols | dberkholz: name some big data projects and i can tell you whether they participated? |
| 18:55.45 | dberkholz | carols: apache hadoop |
| 18:55.53 | carols | well, asf for sure.. |
| 18:55.56 | carols | but you knew that |
| 18:56.07 | dberkholz | yeah, i know. i'd have to go digging |
| 18:56.07 | carols | i'm almost positive hadoop has never participated |
| 18:56.26 | dberkholz | carols: mesos/spark/shark is another group. kafka, storm |
| 18:56.32 | carols | nope. none of those. |
| 18:56.43 | dberkholz | hm. i'll have to talk to them about that. timing's right |
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| 18:57.07 | dberkholz | don't want all these corporatey projects to forget what open source is all about |
| 18:57.13 | carols | remind them that in order to have a possibility of being accepted they have to apply. |
| 18:57.20 | carols | apparently a lot of projects forget that |
| 18:57.36 | carols | every year i get an org complain to me that they weren't accepted and they never actually applied |
| 18:58.03 | dberkholz | you don't carefully hand-curate gsoc from the hundreds of thousands of OSS projects? |
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| 18:58.38 | carols | that sounds like a terrible idea to me... |
| 18:59.26 | carols | not to mention incredibly time consuming |
| 18:59.39 | carols | and fraught with potential error and bad judgement |
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| 19:00.41 | meflin | well you could just ask _every_ oss project ;) |
| 19:00.52 | carols | meflin: yep. still sounds terrible. |
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| 19:01.10 | meflin | sounds like it would take more then a year for that part alone :D |
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| 19:01.16 | carols | indeed |
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| 19:04.38 | umccullough | got a package from mountainview |
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| 19:05.50 | meflin | ah is it gci shirt time? |
| 19:06.06 | umccullough | apparently - i'm only a few hundred files from mtv, so... |
| 19:06.11 | umccullough | er, miles |
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| 19:08.07 | carols | umccullough: you'd be amazed at how little that sometimes affects delivery times. |
| 19:08.14 | umccullough | i know |
| 19:08.38 | umccullough | on a semi-related note - the fedex lady was amused at the peacocks standing in front of my house staring in my windows |
| 19:09.02 | carols | :-) |
| 19:11.37 | umccullough | carols, iirc, fedex ships everything to their hub in tennessee, and then ships out from there |
| 19:11.47 | carols | something like that, yeah |
| 19:13.55 | meflin | there are multiple hubs tho |
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| 19:15.17 | sss | hello, do anybody knows the statistics of 2013, i mean no. of projects submitted to each org. and no off selection and all, pls |
| 19:15.30 | gevaerts | !numapps | sss |
| 19:15.30 | gsocbot | sss: "numapps" is In 2013, 177 of 417 mentoring orgs were accepted; 4144 students submitted 5999 proposals, of which 1192 were accepted. In 2012, 180 of 406 orgs and 1212 of 6685 proposals (by 4258 students) were accepted. In 2011, 175 of 417 orgs and 1116 of 5474 proposals (by 3731 students) were accepted. In 2010, 151 of 367 orgs and 1026 of 5539 propsals (by 3464 students) were (1 more message) |
| 19:15.35 | gevaerts | !odds | sss |
| 19:15.35 | gsocbot | sss: "odds" is Odds, chances or probability really do not come into play for GSoC. Rambling off numbers or asking What are the odds of getting accepted... is really quite useless as one's acceptance is not dictated by luck or numbers, but by the quality of your proposal and your skills instead. |
| 19:16.02 | carols | you've got your finger on the trigger for that one, don't you gevaerts? :-) |
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| 19:16.13 | sss | haha |
| 19:16.22 | gevaerts | carols: it's all this tea! |
| 19:16.28 | carols | i'm sure :-) |
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| 19:17.05 | sss | gevaerts: has many students already asked this question |
| 19:17.19 | gevaerts | !numappsusage |
| 19:17.22 | gevaerts | hmmm |
| 19:17.32 | carols | sss: we get it a lot. |
| 19:17.37 | gevaerts | It's a fairly common question :) |
| 19:17.53 | carols | students seem to think that participating in the program is dependent on how many other students apply or participate. |
| 19:17.56 | carols | which is not the case. |
| 19:18.03 | carols | but it seems to be human nature to think it :-) |
| 19:18.07 | sss | so, don't this question help students |
| 19:18.11 | carols | sss: nope |
| 19:18.13 | meflin | students should be asking more pertinent questions , like about the quality of the tea ;) |
| 19:18.20 | carols | you know what helps students the most? |
| 19:18.22 | carols | i'll tell you. |
| 19:18.41 | scorche|sh | guesses "reading the faq/student guide/documentation" |
| 19:18.46 | carols | being interested and engaged in an open source organization before the application period opens. |
| 19:18.53 | meflin | scorche|sh: putting in the work with the comunity |
| 19:18.55 | carols | that's the second answer, scorche|sh :-) |
| 19:19.26 | dberkholz | submitting before the deadline is also a good one. |
| 19:19.30 | sss | carols: but it can be good to try for the org. where less students try, then the org where many studnts apply |
| 19:19.36 | carols | sss: nope. |
| 19:19.39 | scorche|sh | carols: which is, i am sure, in the guides, no? ;) |
| 19:19.54 | carols | the students who are the most engaged are the ones most likely to get accepted, regardless of the number of applicants. |
| 19:19.56 | gevaerts | gsocbot tells people about numapps 81 to 87 times per year |
| 19:20.09 | kblin | gevaerts: sounds low to me |
| 19:20.17 | gevaerts | This year it's still early days, the counter stands at 4 |
| 19:20.30 | gevaerts | Unless my grep skills are worse than usual :) |
| 19:20.40 | kblin | gevaerts: but I think I just have counters for !when and !next |
| 19:20.43 | scorche|sh | sss: keep in mind that less active orgs get less slots too |
| 19:20.51 | scorche|sh | GSoC definitely isnt a numbers game |
| 19:20.59 | carols | what scorche|sh said |
| 19:21.08 | gevaerts | Unless you're in a numbers based organisation, of course |
| 19:21.13 | dberkholz | probably the only place where it is, is with new orgs |
| 19:21.24 | carols | gevaerts: well then it's not a game, it's their job ;-) |
| 19:21.26 | dberkholz | which tend to get absolutely swarmed with apps but will still only get a couple of slots |
| 19:21.30 | kblin | I've also been at a point where I got four slots and gave two back because I only had two good proposals |
| 19:21.48 | meflin | I've given back slots like that as well |
| 19:21.54 | scorche|sh | same goes for a number of orgs =) |
| 19:21.55 | gevaerts | carols: unless it's a game organisation :) |
| 19:21.55 | carols | kblin: that happens a lot. every year i end up getting more slots back from orgs without the quality of applicants |
| 19:22.03 | carols | gevaerts: :-) |
| 19:22.17 | sss | do interaction with mentor matter most or the proposal.. |
| 19:22.26 | gevaerts | sss: both |
| 19:22.30 | dberkholz | the two are correlated |
| 19:22.39 | meflin | its a terrible thing .. I have this slot ... but I do not have a quality app for it |
| 19:22.42 | dberkholz | if you interact a lot, your proposal will improve because you'll be iterating on it |
| 19:22.51 | kblin | carols: I don't mind, actually. while I'd obviously prefer more good proposals, I'd rather focus mentoring capacity on fewer more active students |
| 19:23.05 | carols | kblin: i think most orgs would. and we see it every year. |
| 19:23.14 | carols | but the students seem not to understand that... |
| 19:23.40 | gevaerts | The weird thing is that 2012 and 2013 were absolutely equal as far as numapps requests is concerned |
| 19:24.10 | meflin | most of my slot planing is based on mentoring resources .. |
| 19:25.11 | kblin | meflin: yeah, same here, unless it's clear we're not getting any proposals for a particular project whatsoever |
| 19:25.16 | sss | gevaerts: what are numapps |
| 19:25.50 | gevaerts | sss: I mean the number of times people asked gsocbot about that factoid |
| 19:25.55 | gevaerts | likes numbers |
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| 19:28.31 | sss | gevaerts: what should be the highlighting content for proposal, is it the scheduled proposal of work, demo code or it differ for every org. need |
| 19:29.18 | carols | sss: what's the org you want to work with? |
| 19:29.47 | sss | carols: mozilla |
| 19:30.19 | carols | sss: great. and what have they said about your question above? |
| 19:30.28 | sss | carols: i have even interacted with some mentors |
| 19:30.36 | carols | sss: that's excellent |
| 19:31.12 | carols | you've got a good start, so keep going with it :-) |
| 19:32.05 | sss | carols: It's really hard for a first timer to understand the concept of gsoc, so i'm on it! |
| 19:32.14 | carols | sss: could you tell me why? |
| 19:32.17 | carols | i'm really curious |
| 19:32.26 | carols | i really want to understand which parts are difficult to understand |
| 19:32.42 | carols | i'd like to modify the documentation or maybe the way we talk about the program so people understand it better |
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| 19:33.04 | carols | it's clear it's difficult to understand, but i have trouble understanding why since i'm managing the program and i'm so close to it :-) |
| 19:34.07 | sss | carols: there is really confusing things, i also use to ask some stupid questions, that how do i prepare, what do i do, to whom one need to talk, how to proceed further after interacting with mentors, and that |
| 19:34.44 | carols | sss: okay, and so the manual didn't clarify those things for you? |
| 19:34.51 | carols | well, and the FAQ? |
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| 19:39.04 | sss | it definitely helped, it clearly explains the gsoc, but in term of selecting a projects students fell some confused, i know that's not yours cup of tea, but students need to decide for which projects they should give time |
| 19:39.26 | carols | sss: so what would help with that process, do you think? |
| 19:42.22 | sss | i don;t know, i'm just telling that, students at this point gets confused, there's nothing you can do, its completely on an indivisual |
| 19:43.09 | carols | okay, fair enough :-) |
| 19:43.21 | carols | i'm just trying to understand how to make the program easier to understand |
| 19:43.30 | stqism | sss: I'd have to disagree with that, I reason it's about information is conveyed, though I do agree that not everyone gets the same thing from something :P |
| 19:43.38 | stqism | How^ |
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| 19:47.06 | sss | stqism: that's what i'm telling its not the fault of oraganiser, website almost explains it all, its on an individual, how does it persive it |
| 19:47.42 | gevaerts | sss: there's an "almost" in that sentence :) |
| 19:48.39 | sss | :P ya i must say "everything".... |
| 19:49.04 | gevaerts | Also, and which I suspect carols is getting at, is that while it might explain everything, it could probably explain everytthing *better* |
| 19:49.14 | sss | but anything can't be perfect, theres always scope of improvement |
| 19:49.24 | carols | gevaerts: indeed. and it perplexes me as to how to do that. |
| 19:49.32 | gevaerts | In which case knowing which parts still confused you would help |
| 19:49.51 | meflin | think of it as a bug report |
| 19:50.02 | stqism | carols: You're nearing the point where you're willing to affect the 90% for the good of the 10% |
| 19:50.21 | carols | ...and i feel like hearing it from someone who's very recently been confused and then unconfused would be best |
| 19:50.24 | gevaerts | And don't worry, changing documentation takes time, so helping improve it probably won't help the competition too much :) |
| 19:50.30 | stqism | It's good, but I could be better. But, making it better for some will make it worse for others. |
| 19:50.36 | carols | stqism: is it just 10%? i feel like it's so much more than that. but maybe it's just my perception. |
| 19:50.55 | carols | i feel like everyone i talk to about the program doesn't understand it the first time they hear about it. |
| 19:51.03 | stqism | carols: The silent majority, I doubt you get 5000 unique emails asking for help. |
| 19:51.17 | carols | stqism: no, you're right. it's only in the hundreds. |
| 19:51.22 | gevaerts | stqism: there's always the old "explain things in different ways" ploy |
| 19:51.54 | stqism | gevaerts: Yeah, but you end up picking another group. |
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| 19:52.23 | gevaerts | Although I have this feeling that part of the problem may simply be people not wanting to spend the time to read it all |
| 19:52.23 | meflin | so you shouldn't even try to understand the issues? |
| 19:53.04 | gevaerts | stqism: the group of people who get confused if they see multiple explanations? |
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| 20:05.42 | carols | we just crested 100 org apps for gsoc this year :-) |
| 20:05.46 | carols | does a happy dance |
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| 20:06.10 | c0bra | Are there working pages for the "accepted orgs" anywhere? The links from google-melange.com are 404 |
| 20:06.23 | carols | c0bra: there aren't any accepted orgs for this year... |
| 20:06.27 | carols | you mean last year and such? |
| 20:06.29 | c0bra | For prior years |
| 20:06.36 | c0bra | http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2013 |
| 20:06.46 | c0bra | linked from the FAQ |
| 20:07.06 | carols | c0bra: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2013 |
| 20:07.15 | carols | looks like they changed the path, i'll update the faq |
| 20:07.24 | c0bra | thanks! |
| 20:07.26 | carols | yw |
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| 20:08.01 | carols | c0bra: where in the faq did you find the bad link? |
| 20:08.45 | c0bra | https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page#2._What_is_the_role_of_a_mentoring |
| 20:08.51 | carols | thanks very much |
| 20:08.54 | c0bra | np! |
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| 20:13.03 | kblin | carols: I'm also in the process of submitting two, just seems like my backup admins are confused by the difference between creating a login and a profile |
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| 20:13.25 | olly_ | will be submitting shortly too (just got back from being away) |
| 20:13.41 | carols | kblin: now *that* is something to file an issue with melange about |
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| 20:14.23 | meflin | that reminds me I need to kick org2 about the app :D |
| 20:16.00 | kblin | carols: as soon as I can figure out how to explain it. after all I didn't get confused about it mysekf |
| 20:16.31 | stqism | carols: kblin Almost forgot, I've got melange issues to complain about too. |
| 20:17.36 | kblin | !bugs | stqism |
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| 20:17.36 | gsocbot | stqism: "bugs" is http://tinyurl.com/new-issue |
| 20:20.18 | stqism | Perfect, even found something in the source to melange that should fix my issue but doesn't do anything, I'll link to that file. |
| 20:21.14 | carols | kblin: i don't find it confusing...but so many people do i'm sure i'm in the minority :-) |
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| 20:22.51 | brlcad | could be because after creating the login, it kicks you back to the main page instead of to the "next step" .. so it seems like you're done |
| 20:23.19 | brlcad | the dashboard is empty iirc |
| 20:23.24 | olly_ | it doesn't help that the process is often slightly different to the previous year |
| 20:24.08 | carols | olly_: well, the nice thing these changes afford us is we won't get the 300 questions and emails from students wanting to know why the list of accepted organizations isn't the right number |
| 20:24.18 | carols | so i, as the program admin, am thankful for that |
| 20:25.42 | olly_ | carols: oh, totally - I've been wishing we'd get rid of that step for years |
| 20:25.42 | brlcad | carols: ah, so it's not going to slowly populate like it usually does? |
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| 20:26.07 | carols | brlcad: nope. because you create an org profile *now* when we accept organizations they're all auto converted to the org's homepage |
| 20:26.12 | carols | and then from there you can go modify it if you like |
| 20:26.36 | carols | before you didn't create the profile (or appear on the list) until after you'd been accepted |
| 20:26.39 | brlcad | as an org starting with a 'B' that was always ready to fill it out within minutes, I never minded that problem ;) |
| 20:26.56 | olly_ | well, i'm not sure I can comment on how easy signing up is, as it seems to just know me from previous years |
| 20:27.03 | kblin | carols: awesome |
| 20:27.20 | carols | kblin: i agree. |
| 20:27.22 | brlcad | now to just get that same requirement on students :) |
| 20:27.25 | carols | but with changes, come different complaints. |
| 20:27.53 | carols | but i'd rather get questions from org admins now than students in a couple weeks who think we've screwed up |
| 20:28.16 | olly_ | hmm, is "Create organization member profile" creating a profile for me or for the org I'm applying for? |
| 20:28.28 | stqism | olly_: +1 |
| 20:28.42 | Nightrose | carols: yay @ that change :) |
| 20:29.03 | carols | Nightrose: i agree! 300 less emails to respond to and say "no, it's working as intended.." |
| 20:29.03 | olly_ | ah, I think it must be for me as it asks for "First name" |
| 20:29.10 | Nightrose | carols: lol i feel your pain |
| 20:29.15 | carols | :-) |
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| 20:31.38 | ProLoser | Your Profile form UI is quite horrible |
| 20:31.48 | ProLoser | I can never figure out if my application or registration went through |
| 20:31.52 | carols | ProLoser: patches welcome |
| 20:31.55 | ProLoser | my organization is angularui |
| 20:32.00 | umccullough | i'm sure #melange would like to hear about it :) |
| 20:32.13 | ProLoser | I am on the org application page and hit submit on the questionnare |
| 20:32.17 | ProLoser | but it just refreshes the page |
| 20:32.22 | ProLoser | there don't appear to be any errors |
| 20:32.25 | ProLoser | did it register properly? |
| 20:32.36 | carols | ProLoser: #melange can help you |
| 20:32.44 | ProLoser | what's melange? |
| 20:32.59 | ProLoser | i mean |
| 20:33.01 | ProLoser | what's the difference |
| 20:33.13 | umccullough | the web software is managed by them |
| 20:33.23 | umccullough | it's another FOSS project |
| 20:33.31 | carols | the channel you're currently in is for questions and topics related to google summer of code. #melange is the channel for the software of the program that you're complaining about |
| 20:33.57 | ProLoser | I i'm afraid to close the window and lose everything i typed in |
| 20:34.02 | umccullough | fwiw, the submit button does indeed not give good indication that the app was submitted, even though it was |
| 20:34.15 | umccullough | open a new window and browse there to confirm |
| 20:34.26 | stqism | ProLoser: It most likely was submit. |
| 20:34.27 | ProLoser | I mean simply putting a flash messsage at the top like "YOUR INFORMATION WAS SUBMITTED" |
| 20:34.29 | ProLoser | would be good enough |
| 20:34.37 | brlcad | ProLoser: open another window, procede to your application, and you should see your data |
| 20:34.44 | umccullough | yes, but you would need to make that suggestion to the melange folks ;) |
| 20:35.02 | stqism | ProLoser: A confirmation that is was submit actually exists in the source to melage. |
| 20:35.14 | stqism | Melange |
| 20:36.02 | ProLoser | okay |
| 20:36.48 | umccullough | carols, i guess that's another point of confusion - it's not universally understood that melange is a separate organization from google themselves |
| 20:37.01 | *** join/#gsoc Somay (~Jain@14.139.82.6) |
| 20:37.01 | umccullough | but i'm not sure how one could clarify that any better |
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| 20:37.08 | meflin | so is apache |
| 20:37.08 | carols | umccullough: hm, that's a good point. we only call that out on the application, not on the FAqs. |
| 20:37.29 | ProLoser | danke |
| 20:37.43 | ProLoser | so who do i have to nag to get our org to be accepted? |
| 20:37.50 | carols | ha! |
| 20:37.54 | carols | that's quite the question |
| 20:37.54 | umccullough | meflin, yes, but you usually go to the web developer to complain about a site running on apache - in this case, it's not understood that this is melange vs google |
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| 20:38.57 | meflin | umccullough: true kinda apple orange comparison |
| 20:38.58 | carols | ProLoser: there's no one to nag. nagging is not the path to acceptance into gsoc. creating a quality application, ideas page, and having a well run community and project will get you on the way there, though. |
| 20:40.00 | ProLoser | i'm just kidding |
| 20:40.21 | ProLoser | we're not exactly the most perfectly run org |
| 20:40.29 | ProLoser | we don't have a blog or feed or anything |
| 20:40.41 | umccullough | you have a few days to get things in order ;) |
| 20:40.52 | ProLoser | we're a fairly prominent org |
| 20:41.03 | ProLoser | but no one individual has the time to manage the org full-time |
| 20:41.10 | ProLoser | angular-ui is like... 50 members, 30 projects |
| 20:41.21 | ProLoser | and one of the biggest used projects in the angularjs community |
| 20:41.39 | ProLoser | one thing i'm curious, do most orgs have someone focusing on the org full time? |
| 20:41.50 | umccullough | not necessarily |
| 20:41.52 | ProLoser | like jquery or something? |
| 20:41.58 | ProLoser | cuz it's not like we're mozilla, we don't have someone paying us |
| 20:42.03 | ProLoser | and we're not trying to collect money |
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| 20:42.17 | JordiGH | Man, "GSoC X", such a missed opportunity. |
| 20:42.19 | umccullough | Haiku is all volunteers, there are a few people who focus on administrative type stuff though |
| 20:42.28 | ProLoser | i founded the org, but i have a full-time job and they are not super keen on paying me for pushing the org |
| 20:42.28 | stqism | ProLoser: With Tox our only full time person is me, and I'm a volunteer. |
| 20:42.35 | Triskelios | surely you mean GSoC(x) |
| 20:42.55 | Triskelios | er, GSoC[x] |
| 20:43.02 | ProLoser | umccullough: what sort of 'administration'? |
| 20:43.12 | stqism | ProLoser: It's fun because rather than get paid, I pay. |
| 20:43.17 | umccullough | ProLoser, handling website admin, infrastructure admin, managing donations, etc. |
| 20:43.19 | umccullough | making news... |
| 20:43.23 | JordiGH | Triskelios: I'm just of thinking "X makes it cool", like the latest Mac OS X.IX release. |
| 20:43.35 | scorche|sh | well, it also turns it into "GSocks" |
| 20:43.43 | umccullough | ProLoser, the stuff that isn't very fun or exciting :/ |
| 20:45.05 | ProLoser | i'd love to have all that |
| 20:45.11 | ProLoser | but all our members are like... busy coding |
| 20:45.27 | meflin | fairly standard state of affairs |
| 20:45.31 | ProLoser | we haven't really had any people volunteer or step up for administrative duties |
| 20:45.43 | carols | ProLoser: if you're all busy coding, why are you interested in mentoring student developers who will take hours every week of your time? |
| 20:45.46 | ProLoser | the org was just a few people working together on some widgets |
| 20:45.57 | ProLoser | well i personally do that already |
| 20:46.07 | ProLoser | i figure if even 1 person can mentor, it would be cool |
| 20:46.13 | carols | ProLoser: why's that? |
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| 20:46.26 | ProLoser | and if even 1 good project or one improvement to the org can be seen, it also would be cool |
| 20:46.32 | ProLoser | why isn't it? |
| 20:47.01 | carols | because it's a huge time commitment and a lot of work. and you could just send out a call for new volunteer developers and probably end up with someone more skilled who will take less hand-holding |
| 20:47.02 | ProLoser | I'm just now posting it to the community though, it was only pushed onto my plate today by some of the members |
| 20:47.17 | ProLoser | eh |
| 20:47.21 | ProLoser | i am a tutor |
| 20:47.30 | ProLoser | i consult and provide feedback and support across all projects |
| 20:47.48 | ProLoser | i manage the entire org and make sure projects don't fall by the wayside or become stagnant if there are interested members |
| 20:48.03 | ProLoser | I don't have as much energy as I once did, but I do try to push things forwards |
| 20:48.32 | ProLoser | I've worked with people who write books for our community (and have been asked several times to write them myself) and have contributed to improving the docs for the core projects, etc |
| 20:48.45 | ProLoser | Our entire org is essentially GSoC for AngularJS |
| 20:49.06 | ProLoser | we tackle any projects we want to see in the community to help improve it |
| 20:49.16 | carols | cool. |
| 20:49.21 | carols | serves some tea and coffee |
| 20:49.26 | ProLoser | hah |
| 20:49.39 | ProLoser | I'd just love to have some more energy to work on it |
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| 20:50.10 | umccullough | ProLoser, yeah, it can be tough to find people to do the non-coding tasks - in the case of Haiku, there are several who don't have the time or knowledge to commit to coding, so they offer their time in other ways |
| 20:50.21 | umccullough | it's also a pretty much thankless job most of the time ;) |
| 20:50.29 | ProLoser | i think the problem with us is we're not a product |
| 20:50.30 | ProLoser | we're a lib |
| 20:50.34 | ProLoser | so all our consumers are devs |
| 20:50.36 | umccullough | possibly |
| 20:50.44 | ProLoser | i don't know anyone who uses or knows of us that isn't a coder |
| 20:50.58 | umccullough | well, there are coders that do administrative stuff for Haiku as well |
| 20:51.04 | ProLoser | I'm sure |
| 20:51.22 | umccullough | but yes, when your user base is all people who avoid that kind of stuff... |
| 20:51.28 | ProLoser | lol |
| 20:51.34 | ProLoser | even if we DID have someone like that |
| 20:51.43 | umccullough | there are organizations that can help you take care of the menial tasks |
| 20:51.52 | umccullough | like software conservancy type orgs |
| 20:51.53 | ProLoser | outside of improving things like docs, updating social stuff, update our site |
| 20:51.58 | ProLoser | i don't know what else there is |
| 20:52.08 | ProLoser | interesting |
| 20:52.13 | ProLoser | perhaps you can link me to them |
| 20:52.28 | stqism | umccullough: Our userbase is the typical end user, suddenly devs are part time customer support |
| 20:52.31 | ProLoser | frankly, my original dream up until a few months ago was just to have the official google team help or sponsor us in some way |
| 20:52.33 | umccullough | http://sfconservancy.org/ |
| 20:52.38 | umccullough | as an example |
| 20:52.45 | umccullough | ProLoser, anyway, you can PM me if you wanna chat more :) |
| 20:53.15 | ProLoser | i have to grab lunch |
| 20:53.16 | ProLoser | perhaps after |
| 20:53.23 | ProLoser | i'm actually supposed to be working for my dayjob lol |
| 20:53.24 | umccullough | np, i'll be busy here in an hour though |
| 20:53.28 | umccullough | same here ;) |
| 20:53.42 | umccullough | you can always find me in #haiku too |
| 20:53.49 | umccullough | well, not always, but often |
| 20:53.52 | ProLoser | if i went with them, i have no idea what i'd have them do |
| 20:54.52 | umccullough | stqism, that's another thing that becomes challenging - the best thing i can recommend is encouraging the more experienced users to help with support |
| 20:54.55 | umccullough | by enabling them |
| 20:56.17 | umccullough | totally off topic here anyhow ;) |
| 20:56.21 | umccullough | sorry |
| 20:57.14 | carols | umccullough: i'll let it slide this time. |
| 20:57.19 | carols | but next time... |
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| 20:58.50 | stqism | Next time get ready with tea and coffee? |
| 20:59.04 | carols | indeed. |
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| 21:08.48 | Botanic | I am trying to register for GSOC however I am getting an error "DAMN" is not a properly-formed username. |
| 21:09.16 | carols | Botanic: i'm not sure we're going to be much help to you. |
| 21:09.51 | Botanic | carols, what are the requirements for the ord id? |
| 21:10.00 | Botanic | the project is actually called damn |
| 21:10.07 | Botanic | http://damn.csproject.org/#home |
| 21:10.32 | carols | Botanic: a good thing to talk to #melange about |
| 21:10.33 | madrazr | Botanic: I give you my permission to hate us |
| 21:10.38 | madrazr | (us == Melange) |
| 21:10.49 | bePolite | hahaha |
| 21:10.55 | Botanic | i just gotta know what the requirements are so I can meet them :) |
| 21:11.19 | madrazr | Botanic: we had this problem a few days back with org ids until I had dig into it and figure out what the exact problem was |
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| 21:11.47 | madrazr | Botanic: btw, for political correctness, permission to hate us only with this particular problem |
| 21:12.01 | madrazr | Botanic: the problem is, our username validator only accepts lowercase letters |
| 21:12.14 | carols | madrazr: Botanic can hate you for other things, he/she just has to keep it to him/herself |
| 21:12.15 | madrazr | with all the other validation rules mentioned on the form |
| 21:12.31 | Botanic | ok fair nuff |
| 21:12.32 | madrazr | carols: I don't give permission for that though :P |
| 21:12.36 | Botanic | I can use lowercase ;) |
| 21:12.39 | carols | madrazr: fair enough |
| 21:13.47 | madrazr | Botanic: cool! |
| 21:14.01 | madrazr | carols: :) |
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| 21:15.27 | madrazr | Botanic: did lowercase letters work? |
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| 21:15.50 | Botanic | seemed to :) |
| 21:16.03 | madrazr | Botanic: cool! |
| 21:16.09 | Botanic | just waiting for hte backup admin to figure out how to reregister his username from last year :P |
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| 21:16.33 | madrazr | Botanic: you don't have to register usernames from previous years |
| 21:16.40 | Botanic | its not finding him |
| 21:16.49 | Botanic | =/ |
| 21:16.54 | umccullough | i had to register again |
| 21:16.58 | Botanic | so did i |
| 21:16.58 | madrazr | Botanic: he/she just needs to login from the same account he signed in from last year |
| 21:17.05 | Botanic | thats what i mean :) |
| 21:17.11 | umccullough | let me clarify, i had to fill out my profile again |
| 21:17.17 | madrazr | Botanic: you just need to create a profile for each program |
| 21:17.25 | madrazr | umccullough: yes, profiles are per program |
| 21:17.30 | madrazr | usernames are site-wide |
| 21:17.34 | Botanic | ya thats what i meant :) |
| 21:17.40 | madrazr | Botanic: Ok |
| 21:17.44 | madrazr | cool |
| 21:17.57 | Botanic | madrazr, thanks for everythin :) |
| 21:18.03 | madrazr | Botanic: no problem |
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| 21:41.56 | carols | refreshes the tea and coffee |
| 21:42.05 | carols | so glad we've gotten some chatting in here finally :-) |
| 21:42.55 | Botanic | carols, the bare essentials :) |
| 21:43.03 | carols | :-) |
| 21:43.16 | meflin | org2 is submited ... it has that shiney never applyed before look ;) |
| 21:43.44 | carols | wow, two orgs this year, meflin? |
| 21:43.52 | carols | was that the case in years past? |
| 21:43.53 | meflin | I'm a glutten for punishment |
| 21:44.07 | meflin | well usualy I admin and mentor ... but I'm not mentoring this year |
| 21:44.25 | carols | so you figured: more work, no big deal |
| 21:44.26 | carols | ? |
| 21:44.43 | scorche|sh | yeah - if you arent mentoring, admining 2 orgs isnt so bad |
| 21:44.45 | meflin | heh yea :D |
| 21:44.59 | meflin | org2 has a vet admin anyway |
| 21:45.04 | carols | scorche|sh: admiring the program and not mentoring is quite a handful, i can tell you that... |
| 21:45.39 | scorche|sh | carols: well, you make it so that admiring the program is easy! ;) |
| 21:45.47 | carols | right |
| 21:45.48 | carols | :-P |
| 21:46.03 | meflin | if my work wasn't very supportable on this issue I probably couldn't do so much |
| 21:46.35 | meflin | scorche|sh: it depends with a whole flight of experinced mentors and a solid co-admin? its cake walk |
| 21:46.43 | meflin | I'll let you know when I see that happen ;) |
| 21:46.51 | scorche|sh | haha, yeah =) |
| 21:49.19 | meflin | carols: so how much time do you spend "admiring the program" :D |
| 21:49.28 | carols | oh a great deal |
| 21:49.31 | carols | most of the week really |
| 21:49.34 | carols | :-P |
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| 21:50.03 | meflin | so like 90% + 10% tea? ;) |
| 21:50.17 | carols | yep, you've got it about right |
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| 22:00.53 | Botanic | carols, hey and thanks again for doin this for all us, damn only really exists because of the mentor summit :D |
| 22:02.12 | umccullough | terrible org name ;) |
| 22:03.57 | Botanic | umccullough, could be worse XD |
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| 23:57.48 | carols | serves some tea and coffee |
| 23:58.02 | carols | kblin: hi there |