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02:23.30Wes1Does anyone know if there will be any projects for beginner level programmers in GSOC?
02:23.59meflinorgs are not yet chosen but you could look as 2013 list
02:24.50Wes1Thanks meflin. Looks like they'll be announced Monday.
02:25.02meflinI think firday?
02:25.09meflincheck the time line
02:25.31Wes1Feb. 24, Monday.
02:26.27meflinI thought it was 21 but I have not look in a long time
02:27.08meflinit is a good idea to look at the old list and get started
02:27.16meflinyou will learn alot
02:28.12Wes1Ok I'll take a look.
02:33.03Slurpee!next
02:33.04gsocbotSlurpee: "next" is accepted orgs will be announced feb 24th 19:00 UTC
02:33.18SlurpeeWes1, meflin - ^
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02:37.22Wes1Last time I drank a Slurpee was about 3 years ago. My brain almost froze.
02:38.05meflindrink the Slurpee
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05:39.02joshwambuaHi all, what do you check to prove that one is a real student?
05:39.22meflinits in the faq
05:39.52stqismjoshwambua: You'd essentially need statements verifying you're a student
05:40.16joshwambuaSuch as school ID and what else?
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05:41.14meflinhave you read the faq?
05:41.51joshwambuaYeah
05:42.27meflinit should be cleear
05:42.39stqismjoshwambua: It would be things like a statement notarized from your school stating that you attend.
05:42.48stqismBut the faq actually says all this
05:42.54joshwambuaAh ok, thanks
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08:01.37a9393jhello
08:04.04stqismHey
08:05.02a9393jwhat will happen if a person apply for multiple orgs and get selected in them ?
08:05.19a9393ji mean in multiple orgs at the same time
08:06.08stqisma9393j: That usually never happens, gsoc is very competitive
08:07.13a9393johk
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08:11.01umcculloughif it does happen, there is a final "deduplication" where orgs decide who gets to have the student
08:11.13umcculloughand it does happen :)
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08:35.01SlashIs there anything the participants can do till the list of organisations is released apart from just waiting?
08:35.25stqismSlash: Googling gsoc 2014 might help
08:35.28olly_Slash: go and talk to organisations who've applied
08:35.36stqismSlash: gsoc 2014 proposal
08:35.51stqismSomething like that'll show you something
08:36.45olly_i know this works pretty well: gsoc 2014 project ideas
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08:39.12HeisenbergHow do we know which organsations have applied?
08:40.34Guest98779And in the proposal, do we have to mention new ideas or discuss about an idea from the ideas page?
08:42.52olly_Guest98779: most orgs are happy to consider both
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08:43.50stqismGuest98779: The applied list is confidential
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08:44.14olly_that's a stretch really
08:44.24olly_most orgs don't make it a secret they've applied
08:44.42Guest98779As of now, we cant start writing the proposal isn't it? Because the organisations' list isn't released. Am I correct?
08:44.46stqismolly_: They don't, but google doesn't disclose it
08:45.10olly_except that org homepages are visible for orgs who've applied
08:45.47olly_so if you can guess the short name (which is usually obvious) you can check definitively
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08:47.09olly_Guest98779: you can find a lot of the orgs who've applied with a websearch, e.g.: gsoc 2014 project ideas
08:47.43Guest98779olly_: Thanks :)
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10:28.19VarunAgw!next
10:28.22gsocbotVarunAgw: "next" is accepted orgs will be announced feb 24th 19:00 UTC
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10:40.52JagHI all! I need little help. I am looking for a organisation where i can use my frontend skills to contribute to the project.
10:41.50Jag@Jag whois
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14:51.21downey!logs
14:51.21gsocbotdowney: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/
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15:31.18bipulI am looking for a help. Regading GSOC-14
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15:31.57darnirWhat are you looking for?
15:33.40bipuldarnir: I want to participat.
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15:36.18stqismHave you read the faq?
15:36.40bipulYes, and i think i am late. :(
15:36.53stqismAs a student?
15:37.17bipulstqism: Yes :(
15:37.53stqismThe application period for students hasn't started yet
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15:39.39bipulstqism: I am just singal student. and i have keen intrest in it, I am trying it for 2009.
15:40.05bipuls/for/since
15:40.13stqismThe mentor org acceptance period isn't done yet
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15:41.04blast007bipul: review the timeline
15:41.16bipulhttp://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page#2._What_is_the_program_timeline
15:41.29stqism!timeline | bipul
15:41.29gsocbotbipul: "timeline" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2014
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15:47.20bipulso after submission of Mentoring organizations, I am able to choose my subject.
15:48.30bipulsubject here refers to my project.
15:49.00blast007no.  After the student application period opens you can submit applications.
15:49.48blast007but you can start interacting with organizations whenever you want - genreally, the sooner the better :)
15:50.23bipulfor example ?
15:51.02blast007check the org list from 2013 for a rough idea of orgs that *might* be in 2014
15:51.40blast007http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2013
15:52.11bipulok. I am into networking side. so better i found some organisation related to N+.
15:52.45blast007so put "network" into the tags filter there
15:53.16bipulThank you blast007 :) and stqism for giving me your precious time.
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16:19.55DaSpiritAny way to know if an organization has been accepted early? :p
16:20.30gevaertsYes
16:20.38gevaertsNo organisation has been accepted early :)
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16:23.04stqismgevaerts: That's a double negative.
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16:25.00gevaertsstqism: where?
16:25.24gevaertsdenies everything twice
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16:37.44rohithNickServ VERIFY REGISTER rohith uxwqrjcrnobo
16:38.37meflinyou might want to change that password ;)
16:39.32DaSpiritWow that's awks.
16:39.55rohithNickServ VERIFY REGISTER rohith uxwqrjcrnobo
16:40.28gevaertsThat's not going to help
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16:45.49e^0how is the payment done ?
16:46.02scoprionany tips for a newbie (student)?
16:46.35scorche|she^0: have you read through the FAQ?
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16:47.01scorche|sh!studentguide
16:47.01gsocbotscorche|sh: "studentguide" is http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/
16:47.17scorche|shscoprion: there are lots of tips in the guide linked above  =)
16:47.54umcculloughtip: find an org, get involved early
16:48.03e^0scorche|sh: ok :)
16:51.08scoprioni wanted to ask , do only very skilled guys get selected or there is chance for even enthusiasts who are on their way to be that?
16:52.57meflinthere is a chance yes
16:54.35gevaertsIf you mean technically skilled, yes. For gsoc, communication can be just as important
16:54.51gevaertsAnd people who are technically skilled sometimes fail there
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17:13.47carolsserves some tea and coffee
17:15.22meflincraws to the tea
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17:19.45umcculloughcraws?
17:19.54umcculloughyou need some caffeine :)
17:20.05meflinyep i do
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18:48.36Sakshamhello
18:48.47^stqismHey
18:49.00Sakshamhi i am saksham kashyap
18:49.14^stqismAnd what can we help you with?
18:49.18Sakshami am a student of b.tech
18:49.24^stqismI see
18:49.31SakshamComputer science
18:49.36^stqismOkay
18:50.07SakshamI have good knowledge of java
18:50.19^0xstqismSaksham: Okay
18:50.26^stqismGreat
18:50.36Sakshamand i was willing to take part ingsoc 2014
18:50.43Sakshamin gsoc*
18:50.46^0xstqism^stqism: Note to self: Group that
18:50.56^0xstqismSaksham: Have you read the faq?
18:51.08^stqismNote to self: Group that?
18:51.14Sakshamyes yes
18:51.26umcculloughthis isn't where you sign up for gsoc :)
18:51.38^0xstqismSaksham: Okay, you'll want to apply when the time comes
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18:51.44Sakshami wanted to know that suppose i am selected
18:52.06^0xstqismOkay
18:52.19umcculloughplease ask your question all at once...
18:52.29^0xstqism^ this
18:52.43Sakshamand i am stuck in between of the project
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18:53.00^0xstqismSaksham: And, what's your question?
18:53.06Sakshamand i dont know some concepts
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18:53.18Sakshamhow will i get help
18:53.18Saksham??
18:53.25umcculloughyou'll ask your mentor
18:53.27^0xstqismYour mentor would help you
18:53.34Sakshamok .
18:54.07^stqismSaksham, You can also use google and sites like Stack Overflow
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19:35.48carolsserves some more tea and doffee
19:35.51carolscoffee
19:35.55carolsapparently i need some myself.
19:36.12carolsso quiet in here again :-)
19:37.17meflinits one of those days where there is never enough tea .... I'm going to cancel it :D
19:37.36carolsgood idea :-)
19:37.53downeyswitches to coffee today
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19:38.12carolshi downey :-)
19:38.15meflinah I have enough votes Wednesday is canceled
19:38.38downeyHi carols :-) happy Wednesday
19:38.52carolshappy "We're through round 1 of reviews for gsoc org apps" day
19:39.04downeyround 1 of ... ? :)
19:39.07carols3
19:39.10carolsusually
19:39.16downeythat's almost half!
19:39.18carolsi think it's going to be 3 this year since we had less apps
19:39.27carolssometimes it goes to 4, but only rarely
19:39.40downeymeflin: i feel like we were claiming Wednesday to be TGIF for #gsoc
19:39.42carolsand round 2 will be done by the end of today
19:39.46downeymeflin: so it'd be bad to cancel it
19:39.56meflinbah fine :)
19:40.02carols:-)
19:40.14meflinmakes more tea then
19:40.20downeythe real Google TGIF is Thursday, right?
19:40.31gevaertsdecides to have some tea and toffee
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19:42.45carolsdowney: that's correct.
19:42.59carolsi love to ask that when i give tours
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19:43.06carols"so, everyone, when's TGIF?"
19:43.11carols"that's right. thursday."
19:43.18downeywhich time zone? ;-)
19:43.23carolsexactly
19:43.30paultagfor some very large values of thursday
19:43.31downeyis all too familiar with time zone stress
19:43.31carolsits meant to accommodate the southern hemisphere too
19:44.57downeyrandom props for http://www.worldtimebuddy.com/
19:45.17downeyif there are any calendar-type gsoc orgs in here :)
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19:47.30stqismdowney: Not a lot of room to branch out in making calendars :P
19:48.39downeystqism: don't get me started on my google calendar ideas ;-)
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19:50.07gevaertsasks stqism about decent caldav clients
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19:50.55stqismgevaerts: That reminds me, no .cal support in the Android calendar sucks :(
19:51.14gevaertsstqism: there's s a lot of room in the calendar area :)
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19:51.38stqismWelp, you got me on that one.
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19:51.51downeystqism: e.g., https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdfilter=calendar
19:52.02Ivanoviccarols: over the last two days we had some problems with our server (one harddrive in the raid dying...) leading to the site sometimes not working
19:52.17Ivanoviccarols: right now the ideas page should be functional: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas
19:52.33Ivanovici hope this does not overlap (too badly) with you and your team checking our ideas
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19:54.58Slurpeedowney, I'm a fan of http://www.worldtimeserver.com/meeting-planner.aspx
19:55.39downeySlurpee: Have use that but not everyone works "business hours" in their location :)
19:55.57carolsIvanovic: okay, thanks
19:56.08stqismdowney: Those caldav and ics format importing stuff really should be a part of the aosp calendar app
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19:56.54Slurpeedowney, I'll give worldtimebuddy.com a try next time.
19:57.22downeystqism: i'm sure #android would welcome your feedback ;-)
19:57.56stqismdowney: Yeah, it's a tad off topic :P
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21:13.44ph4n70m4swhat is the necessary legalese a mentor has to sign in order to be part of gsoc?
21:15.03stqismph4n70m4s: You just have to be 18 and in a country where it isn't forbidden
21:15.16stqism*over 18
21:15.19ph4n70m4sI am 20 and I am from Greece
21:15.47ph4n70m4slast year a friend of mine from the same univercity worked on gsoc
21:15.58ph4n70m4sso there won't be any problems
21:16.24stqismNope, you'll be fine.
21:16.38stqismYou do need to agree to make a Google account though.
21:17.14blast007(or use one you already have)
21:17.19stqism^
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21:18.20ph4n70m4sthnx :-)
21:18.26mark_weaverwhat is the exact legalese I would have to agree to, to be a GSoC mentor?
21:18.38carolsmark_weaver: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/org_admin_agreement
21:19.05mark_weavercarols: thanks!
21:19.08carolsyw
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21:32.10mark_weaverouch.  "6.5 Amendments. Google reserves the right at any time to amend this Agreement. Any changes made will be effective immediately upon notice, which we may give either by posting the revised Agreement on the Site or via electronic mail. Your continued participation in Google Summer of Code after such notice will be deemed acceptance of such changes."
21:33.42MisterHpretty much every company does that you'd think
21:34.05mark_weaverthat doesn't make it any more acceptable.
21:34.38MisterHwell, yes but it's pretty standard imho
21:35.16MisterHi'm not disagreeing with you that it's awful
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21:36.50MisterHbig companies always use legalese to their advantage
21:38.38mark_weaverI thought Google was better than most companies.  I'm disappointed to see them sliding down into "standard behavior".
21:39.40mark_weaverI'm not willing to give Google a blank agreement with my signature on it, which is essentially what this is.
21:40.00mark_weavers/Google/anyone/
21:40.23mark_weaverI realize that I'm unusual.  Most people click "agree" without even reading, which is why this kind of thing can become so widespread.
21:41.27waldihere[tm], blizzard just got this parts of there Wow agreement forcefuly removed by court
21:41.44MisterHmark_weaver: if you want to see something particularly dirty, check out some of those gaming companies terms of service/whatever
21:42.22MisterH"blizzard/whoever owns all the virtual items on your account as well as your account. They are subject to being changed/removed without any notice or reason" is pretty standard
21:42.31MisterHsomething like that
21:42.35mark_weavernothing can be any worse than a blank agreement to be filled in later.
21:42.56mark_weaverbecause any horrible clause you could think of could be put in that blank space.
21:43.00MisterHwell, I doubt google's has any nefarious intentions
21:43.05MisterHgoogle*
21:44.01MisterHand you do indeed have the right to not participate if you disagree with any changes made from the looks of it
21:44.37MisterHso it's not like they can have you sign it and then edit it while you're legally bound by it
21:44.52mark_weaverit's not practical for me to check the agreement on the site before each instant of "participating".
21:45.03MisterHsure, I agree with that
21:45.06mark_weavers/me/anyone/
21:45.52naywhayarefrom my interpretations and dealings with companies as an independent consultant (where the agreements often look similarly nefarious), it has more to do with the company covering themselves against potential litigation than taking advantage of the other party
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21:46.02umcculloughdoesn't it indicate that you will receive notice of the changes?
21:46.11naywhayarethis doesn't change the reality of what it says... but it's at least a perspective that hasn't been offered here in this discussion yet, so I thought I'd throw it in there
21:46.23umcculloughoh, it says they can post it on the site, nevermind
21:46.42MisterHnaywhayare: that's what I was about to say
21:46.45downeyWe are all free to run our own sponsored mentoring programs. :)
21:46.52MisterHI was looking up the particular legal term for it
21:47.15MisterHwhich I can't find, hahaha
21:47.31umcculloughdowney, Haiku did twice, it was hard!
21:47.31naywhayareI think the particular legal term is "CYA" :)
21:47.49downeyumccullough: Indeed it is. :)
21:49.31MisterHyes, that's what I was looking for
21:49.43MisterHit's pretty practical legally speaking
21:53.46umcculloughpractically speaking, if they changed the terms without making it blatantly obvious and giving everyone a chance to opt-out, it would never hold up in court
21:53.54umcculloughat least, not a court here in the U.S.
21:53.57mark_weaverI don't doubt that's why they're doing it, but it would be more honest to simply say "you have to agree to any terms we decide, now or in the future, so take a leap of faith and trust us to be good."
21:54.22mark_weaverand I'm not willing to do that.  I find it very sad that so many people are willing to.
21:54.55umcculloughthe sad part is that people find loopholes in the terms and abuse them, forcing them to amend the terms to deal with the problem
21:55.02MisterHwell, google hasn't exactly flayed someone alive because it's written in their contract, so it can't be too bad, right?
21:55.06meflinso dont :P
21:55.50umcculloughfrom a skimming, I don't see any "breach of contract" terms in there that allow them to actually hold you liable for jack shit
21:56.02umcculloughmostly it's limiting their own liability
21:56.03carolsumccullough: please watch your language
21:56.07umcculloughsorry, carols
21:56.11carolsthanks
21:56.26meflinlets all relax and have some tea
21:57.05downeymark_weaver: As with most things in life, it's a trade off. Google supports us, and their terms are acceptable in lieu of that support and our past experience with their good faith & behavior in executing their end of the deal.
21:57.14downeyMmm tea
21:57.20mark_weaverIANAL, but my understanding is that if I sign a contract and there is consideration involved, that constitutes a promise that I'll agree to the terms of that contract.  In this case, that means I'm agreeing to any clause they decide on in the future.
21:57.25naywhayaremark_weaver: before you dispense encompassing judgment, please do realize that in many cases (gsoc excepted) one must either accept the legalese or starve.
21:58.54MisterHgoogle won't come to your house with a baseball bat and smash your knees because you don't want to agree with their terms
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21:59.08mark_weaverthat's an exaggeration.  perhaps "accept the legalese or live with less".
21:59.35mark_weaverplease, your hacking away at strawmen.  of course they wouldn't do anything close to that.
21:59.59MisterHit was a hyperbole
22:00.02mark_weaverbut I could imagine them sticking in some clause about not speaking out publicly against google, or not competing with one of their products, or something like that.
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22:00.17umcculloughi guess it wouldn't be too hard to write some mechanism that compares the agreement to a cached copy every few minutes
22:00.34MisterHlol
22:00.34umcculloughand alerts a group of individuals if it happens to change
22:00.57umcculloughat which point, they can choose to stop participating ;)
22:01.08mark_weaveranyone who knows about multithreaded programming can see the race condition there.
22:01.51olly_hmm, i read that as they'd notify you via the melange site, but it doesn't actually say that
22:01.53umcculloughplease
22:02.22naywhayaremark_weaver: in my situation, it was not an exaggeration.  this is digressing very far from gsoc, so I'm letting this go.  I'm not sure why you're being so contrarian about all of this ...
22:02.24olly_or at least not completely clearly
22:02.41MisterHmy college has makes students agree with terms to use the wifi, and it's pretty much a blank agreement. That said, it's up to you to decide whether or not signing the agreement is worth it
22:02.59downeyI'm glad I'm a pragmatist. :-)
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22:04.00MisterHhas makes, what was I on haha, makes*
22:05.01mark_weaverokay, I've said what I had to say.  thanks for helping me find the legalese.
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22:25.42downeyadds a little honey to the #gsoc tea to sweeten it up
22:26.09meflinholds out his mug
22:26.21meflindont suppose you have any whiskey?
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22:27.02gevaertsWould you settle for whiskers?
22:27.08terriewww
22:27.15meflinno :)
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22:28.16meflinI guess I will have to stick to tea then :D
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