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| 03:18.35 | downey | Do any other GSoC organizations use Google Groups for their project mailing lists? |
| 03:18.56 | meflin | at least one of our sub-orgs does |
| 03:19.16 | meflin | our being Python ( in this case since I am dual brained this year ) |
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| 03:20.50 | TCD | I've seen a lot of ggroups |
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| 03:23.59 | novochen | I just found out that there are FOUR pages of orgs... |
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| 03:29.30 | meflin | novochen: 190 of them in fact |
| 03:30.02 | TCD | well, no, 4.. ;) |
| 03:30.16 | meflin | there can be only 1 |
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| 03:44.44 | sumanah | Yay, my favorite open source conference has opened its call for talks for 2014: http://opensourcebridge.org/call-for-proposals/ |
| 03:44.52 | downey | bridge++ |
| 03:46.35 | sumanah | downey: yes!! |
| 03:47.15 | sumanah | downey: you know, I think the first time I met some of the OSPO people was at a BoF session at OSBridge |
| 03:47.32 | downey | it's a great event ... but must first get my mind focused on libreplanet |
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| 03:48.59 | sumanah | nod |
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| 03:50.54 | downey | but yeah, y'all should try to get to portland for bridge if circumstances allow |
| 03:50.56 | thiago | hmm... no travel required |
| 03:51.08 | thiago | I should consider sending something |
| 03:51.31 | meflin | portland is an easy place to get to ... hmm |
| 03:52.01 | thiago | I don't even have to drive |
| 03:52.04 | sumanah | Rock |
| 03:52.22 | meflin | sadly I already have a diff conf in porland that cuts into my chances |
| 03:52.23 | sumanah | I love the mix of deep technical talks with thoughtful sessions about workflow, culture, tool usage, etc. |
| 03:52.25 | downey | where else can one listen to video game music on a pipe organ in the morning, stand in the lunch line next to the inventor of the wiki (and fellow purdue alum), and then hack with the best in the afternoon, with lots of cool sessions in between? |
| 03:52.57 | TCD | the internet |
| 03:53.06 | downey | it's like the internet in real life ;-) |
| 03:53.34 | TCD | I prefer my non real life internet |
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| 03:56.43 | sumanah | Well, to each their own. |
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| 03:57.47 | sumanah | meflin: what is your other Portland conf? |
| 03:58.13 | meflin | if I told you I would have to kill you ;) |
| 03:58.15 | thiago | OSCON? |
| 03:58.20 | sumanah | backs off |
| 03:58.27 | thiago | CLS? |
| 03:58.57 | sumanah | I'm gonna go work on a blog post. see y'all |
| 03:58.59 | meflin | heh shouldn't have used that joke here ... its more of a group meet up |
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| 03:59.10 | olly | meflin: debconf? |
| 03:59.24 | downey | meflin: the sock knitting conference? |
| 03:59.37 | meflin | downey: that is likely |
| 03:59.44 | downey | meflin: i almost dropped in on that one |
| 04:00.00 | meflin | while we watch bad bad movies |
| 04:00.13 | olly | i think meflin's just trying to croud source a list of conferences in portland |
| 04:00.31 | meflin | but while meh _I_ am bringing the most desirable tea |
| 04:00.34 | thiago | there's the newly formed PDX C++ users group |
| 04:00.37 | thiago | you're welcome to join too |
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| 04:02.48 | meflin | thiago: without a makers space and an anime room? no thanks ;) |
| 04:03.20 | thiago | has a conference next week, but he has to drive out of portland for it |
| 04:03.23 | meflin | besides I am in DEN |
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| 04:03.54 | thiago | it's just one flight away |
| 04:04.41 | meflin | driving this year |
| 04:04.56 | thiago | what is it, a two day drive? |
| 04:05.06 | meflin | 20-22 hours |
| 04:05.28 | thiago | so a day and a half |
| 04:05.50 | meflin | dual gsoc admin road trip ( from hell? ) |
| 04:05.51 | thiago | I'd say you can conceivably drive 12-14 hours in a day. |
| 04:06.17 | meflin | we cant even agree on our punk music |
| 04:07.03 | meflin | I've solo done 18 hours myself |
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| 04:07.48 | thiago | I've done 12 hours and that was exchanging drivers with a friend |
| 04:07.57 | thiago | Lille-Copenhagen, about 1750 km |
| 04:08.13 | meflin | you have to be careful with that stuff tho |
| 04:08.29 | thiago | no, it must have been more. 15 hours. |
| 04:08.58 | thiago | we did floor it driving through Germany (autobahn, no speed limit), but an average of 140 km/h over the entire trip, including stops, is a bit too much. |
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| 04:09.54 | meflin | I'm in the usa ... and like most of the usa professionally trained ;) |
| 04:10.13 | meflin | most important I know my limits and I've hit them |
| 04:10.18 | thiago | I live in the USA now (Portland), but I studied in Europe for a while |
| 04:11.18 | meflin | my first long trek was 1900 miles ... and there came this point ... its like hmm not sharp .. got off the hiway and packed it end ( put me a day late ) |
| 04:11.34 | thiago | yeah, I know that feeling |
| 04:11.35 | meflin | to pick up my fiance |
| 04:12.03 | thiago | but anyway, DEN-PDX roundtrip by plane should be $200 if you buy ahead of time |
| 04:12.17 | meflin | that was before cell's .... but dead is a lot worse then not showing up ;) |
| 04:12.40 | meflin | thiago: 250-300 last I checked ;) |
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| 04:14.22 | thiago | right, June is a bit more expensive |
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| 04:15.04 | meflin | most of the point of the road trip ... is the road trip in this case ;) |
| 04:15.19 | thiago | right |
| 04:16.13 | meflin | my guess is for the 2 of us it will be $4-500 so a wash |
| 04:16.18 | thiago | ugh... 5 trips in 5 weeks in a row for me |
| 04:16.52 | meflin | eww |
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| 04:17.19 | thiago | fortunately, two of those are just 60 miles away |
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| 04:30.05 | neo1691 | Hello |
| 04:30.19 | sumanah | hi neo1691 |
| 04:31.48 | neo1691 | How are the students faring so far! |
| 04:32.30 | meflin | not yet app time |
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| 04:32.51 | meflin | lots of time for them to prove them selves or tank |
| 04:32.51 | umccullough | heh |
| 04:33.42 | sumanah | neo1691: so, some well, some not so well. :) |
| 04:33.50 | sumanah | neo1691: are you a mentor, a student....? |
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| 04:34.31 | TCD | I'm trying to get as much actual schoolwork out the way so I can focus on my proposals :P |
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| 04:43.34 | novochen | so many orgs, so many ideas, all in English... |
| 04:43.59 | novochen | so painful |
| 04:45.55 | edunham | yeah, considering that Google's English-speaking, it's not that surprising |
| 04:46.00 | edunham | start a SOC in your preferred language? |
| 04:46.02 | TCD | english is pretty close [citation-needed] to universal in this age, though |
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| 04:47.12 | novochen | you know, English is far different from the asian languages |
| 04:47.31 | thiago | still the closest to lingua franca |
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| 04:48.27 | meflin | considering the 10 or so orgs ( not all gsoc ) i've been in all even the non english dominated spoke in english |
| 04:49.42 | TCD | Actually, the only things I can think of that I've seen recently with even an alternate translation were a paper abstract (english and french) and some MOOC from peking university (english and presumed chinese) |
| 04:49.49 | TCD | programming-wise |
| 04:50.51 | Palash | thinks language is no barrier, timezones is |
| 04:51.15 | meflin | Palash: you are wrong both are |
| 04:51.16 | novochen | I didn't know that peking university has English MOOC |
| 04:51.35 | TCD | novochen: It's english sub, I believe |
| 04:51.41 | Palash | melfin : I was talking in context to irc |
| 04:51.53 | meflin | so was I |
| 04:51.54 | neo1691 | sumanah: Student |
| 04:52.42 | novochen | TCD: oh, what's it about? Software engineering? |
| 04:52.50 | TCD | https://www.coursera.org/course/pkubioinfo found it, bioinformatics |
| 04:53.00 | novochen | wow |
| 04:53.20 | sumanah | It's ok for different people to have different experiences :) |
| 04:53.30 | sumanah | for some people time zones are more of a barrier, and for some people, language is |
| 04:53.38 | Palash | agrees :) |
| 04:53.53 | sumanah | neo1691: anything we can help you with? |
| 04:54.07 | TCD | I've never really had timezone issues...but then again, it's 4:55am here and this isn't abnormal for me to be up right now. |
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| 04:56.13 | novochen | it's 1pm here ;p |
| 04:56.36 | TCD | yeah, think 5am is a good point to sleep at. see you guys :P |
| 04:56.45 | meflin | china? |
| 04:56.54 | novochen | yeah, china |
| 04:56.58 | sumanah | night TCD |
| 04:57.09 | novochen | bye TCD |
| 04:57.22 | meflin | I've had a student from there .. fun time ( good student ) |
| 04:57.45 | sumanah | Wikimania 2013 was in Hong Kong; I met several Chinese folks |
| 04:58.01 | novochen | that's cool |
| 04:58.26 | meflin | have you considered your english isn't that bad? |
| 04:58.46 | novochen | yes, sometimes... |
| 04:58.55 | meflin | heh |
| 04:59.00 | sumanah | I imagine it's possible to get a somewhat objective test |
| 04:59.09 | sumanah | TOEFL, online checks, etc. |
| 04:59.18 | novochen | It's just reading large chunks of English makes me feel painful |
| 04:59.40 | meflin | ah that sorry I misunderstood |
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| 04:59.55 | sumanah | There are also native English readers who feel that way -- some people have more visual learning styles, not verbal http://blog.melchua.com/2013/06/19/hacker-school-session-engineering-learning-styles/ |
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| 05:00.24 | novochen | thx sumanah, it'll take a look at that |
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| 05:00.57 | meflin | novochen: thats mostly me ( sorta ) |
| 05:01.20 | novochen | meflin: ;p |
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| 05:03.05 | novochen | bye guys, gotta have lunch |
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| 05:26.04 | royxue | hello |
| 05:26.07 | sumanah | hi royxue |
| 05:26.32 | royxue | hi sumanah |
| 05:27.34 | royxue | i have seen the pages u gave to me it`s helpful thx |
| 05:27.42 | sumanah | Great! |
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| 05:35.20 | sumanah | I've finally posted my "open source companies that are hiring" thing I had been working on for too long http://www.harihareswara.net/sumana/2014/03/06/0 |
| 05:38.15 | Slurpee | sumanah, cool post. ~ how many people are employed @wikimedia? |
| 05:38.55 | sumanah | Slurpee: ~180 people total, ~100 in the engineering department |
| 05:39.02 | sumanah | Slurpee: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Staff?showall=1 |
| 05:39.12 | meflin | we are dinky and about to bring on our 3rd |
| 05:39.20 | meflin | why ... oss |
| 05:39.51 | Slurpee | sumanah, ~180 full time salary staff? |
| 05:39.55 | sumanah | Slurpee: plus some people at Wikimedia chapters, e.g., Wikimedia Germany (an independent organisation from Wikimedia Foundation). Wikimedia Germany does also employ engineers |
| 05:40.23 | sumanah | Slurpee: approximately. Some are part-time or paid short-term contractors |
| 05:40.43 | Slurpee | sumanah, that is pretty cool. |
| 05:41.09 | Slurpee | Is that a high number of staff for an open source org? |
| 05:41.16 | Slurpee | Is that a high number of paid staff for an open source org? |
| 05:41.18 | sumanah | It's a great place. I'm pleased to work there. I'm glad that we have been able to work with GSoC for so many years |
| 05:41.57 | sumanah | Open source organisations vary SO MUCH Slurpee -- you may wish to check out some of the links in that post, and/or in http://www.harihareswara.net/sumana/2013/03/31/0 (video: http://vimeo.com/68304908 ) |
| 05:42.22 | sumanah | there are, after all, one-person FLOSS consultancies, and then there's Google which also makes open source stuff such as Android and Chrome |
| 05:42.38 | Slurpee | sumanah, I have a good amount of experience in open source. Yet, I'm coming from Drupal community which does not really have officially paid staff. |
| 05:42.44 | sumanah | Slurpee: There's Acquia. |
| 05:43.01 | olly | chromium's open source, chrome isn't |
| 05:43.07 | sumanah | olly: ok |
| 05:43.16 | sumanah | There are many people being paid to work on Drupal :) it's just that they are at lots of different places |
| 05:43.27 | Slurpee | sumanah, yes, and I see your point, but our "drupal association" does not really pay people to work on Drupal itself. Mainly we have companies that pay staff company time to focus on Drupal. |
| 05:43.40 | sumanah | Right. Lullabot, Acquia, etc |
| 05:43.57 | Slurpee | The topic has been brought up several times if we should have paid staff to do nothing but work on Drupal core or drupal.org updates. |
| 05:44.07 | sumanah | and the GNOME Foundation also mostly coordinates travel funding, outreach, mentorship programs, etc., and it's people in various orgs who work on GNOME, paid and unpaid |
| 05:44.17 | Slurpee | Now I'm interested to see the models other orgs have adopted. |
| 05:44.24 | sumanah | WordPress has Automattic |
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| 05:44.41 | Slurpee | I'm not familiar with Automattic |
| 05:44.59 | sumanah | they do wordpress.com |
| 05:45.01 | sumanah | you might have seen the Linux kernel stats on who works where https://lwn.net/Articles/537110/ |
| 05:45.02 | Slurpee | A certain search engine just helped me though. |
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| 05:45.56 | Slurpee | sumanah, very interesting stats...thanks. |
| 05:46.04 | olly | suspects the "foundation paying people to code" model is far rarer than the "companies around a project" model |
| 05:46.08 | sumanah | MediaWiki as of ~2010 had more than half its commits coming from outside Wikimedia Foundation. Now more than half come from inside. This can lead to certain new kinds of opportunities and problems |
| 05:46.51 | Slurpee | sumanah, I can only imagine. |
| 05:47.07 | Slurpee | sumanah, you think it worked out for the communities best interest? |
| 05:47.23 | sumanah | You might also be interested in reading this essay http://www.majordojo.com/2011/02/how-did-wordpress-win.php on the pitfalls of hiring everyone who works on the project into 1 company |
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| 05:48.29 | sumanah | Slurpee: I think it worked to Wikimedia's best interest. It has helped us achieve the Wikimedia mission faster and better. https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Mission_statement We're also working to ensure that we keep a healthy MediaWiki community related to but separate from Wikimedia-only needs. |
| 05:48.33 | Slurpee | reads |
| 05:49.18 | thebolt | hm, the earlier discussion about english being the modern lingua franca.. it is.. until you end up living in a country where most people does not speak it :P |
| 05:49.59 | sumanah | Varnish has people at one company mostly, I think. Linaro is a deliberate consortium including people at different companies AND Linaro specifically. I think most Firefox contributors work for Mozilla. OpenStack is successfully doing the lots-of-companies thing. |
| 05:51.11 | Slurpee | sumanah, I think Drupal is lucky to have such awesome companies in our community. |
| 05:51.18 | royxue | sumanah how will i write a proposal do you have any examples? |
| 05:51.20 | sumanah | Open Knowledge Foundation and Participatory Culture Foundation are paying people to work on software |
| 05:51.32 | sumanah | royxue: have you already read the "writing a proposal" chapter in the manual? :D |
| 05:51.39 | sumanah | Slurpee: congrats and agreed :) |
| 05:51.48 | sumanah | (MediaWiki has some lovely ones as well.) |
| 05:52.10 | sumanah | royxue: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Jarry1250/GSoC_2012_application is a good example, in my opinion. |
| 05:52.50 | royxue | sumanah I'm still finding suitable organizations |
| 05:53.11 | sumanah | royxue: OK. I wish you thoughtfulness and decisiveness. :) |
| 05:53.53 | brlcad | royxue: pretty much all of our students last year had very good applications that you can see, all linked from here: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2013 |
| 05:54.17 | sumanah | Slurpee: You might also be interested in this talk http://opensourcebridge.org/sessions/864 by Greg Dunlap about being a Drupal initiative lead |
| 05:54.21 | brlcad | unusual year :) |
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| 05:55.43 | Slurpee | sumanah, how do you know so much about Drupal? :) |
| 05:56.24 | sumanah | Slurpee: I've been paying attention to open source since 1998. :) |
| 05:56.53 | Slurpee | sumanah, you know this much about all 190 gsoc orgs? :) |
| 05:57.00 | sumanah | No. :) |
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| 05:57.09 | royxue | sumanah do you know any good python project? |
| 05:57.22 | sumanah | royxue: What is "good" to you? |
| 05:57.30 | sumanah | royxue: Tell me what "good" means to you so I can help you |
| 05:57.55 | Slurpee | If only there was some type of wiki software in which we could document all of this open source knowledge into a website... |
| 05:58.26 | Slurpee | Is there an "open source history archive wiki" out there? |
| 05:58.27 | olly | Slurpee: perhaps we could build something with drupal |
| 05:58.29 | sumanah | projects with easy-to-do ideas? projects with accessible mentors? projects where your improvements would reach a lot of people? projects that are already stable, or projects that are just getting started? |
| 05:58.49 | Slurpee | olly, I was thinking mediawiki. |
| 05:59.14 | thebolt | brlcad: or overall quality is improving.. |
| 06:00.02 | royxue | sumanah maybe some project related to machine learning or web crawler...ive found scrapy and theano |
| 06:00.49 | sumanah | royxue: A good way for you to learn whether those projects will suit you is to contact the mentors for those projects and start asking interesting questions |
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| 06:01.19 | sumanah | royxue: I have a few more things you might like to read: |
| 06:01.20 | sumanah | http://open-advice.org/ |
| 06:01.25 | sumanah | http://sindhus.bitbucket.org/common-pitfalls-of-newcomers-in-foss.html |
| 06:01.27 | sumanah | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:02.11 | royxue | oh thx |
| 06:03.00 | sumanah | Slurpee: And more specifically, I've been paying attention to PHP-based content management-type webapps even more keenly since early 2011. :) And I've admired Angie Byron's accomplishments and writing for years. |
| 06:03.16 | sumanah | I often point people to http://webchick.net/embrace-the-chaos . |
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| 06:04.44 | novochen | aha another pythoner |
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| 06:07.14 | sumanah | by the way, I just saw http://www.pyladies.com/blog/opw-office-hours/ "Submit your first patch to Python!" " Who: Anyone interested in contributing to Python. While we particularly encourage prospective OPW and Google Summer of Code interns to attend, this event is open to everyone." |
| 06:07.32 | sumanah | it's an IRC meeting to help you learn how to contribute your first patch to Python stuff |
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| 06:11.10 | novochen | that's pretty cool |
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| 06:12.14 | sumanah | novochen: yeah. you could go |
| 06:12.25 | sumanah | royxue: you could go as well to the meeting I just mentioned |
| 06:13.55 | royxue | sumanah is that require girls? |
| 06:14.08 | sumanah | royxue: no. Please read carefully |
| 06:14.14 | sumanah | "this event is open to everyone" |
| 06:14.16 | royxue | oh |
| 06:15.40 | royxue | i just add it to my google calendar thx |
| 06:15.51 | sumanah | royxue: in open source, it really helps to read what other people say carefully, so that you can learn everything they're teaching you :) I know it's a hard skill to learn, and this year I bet you can get a lot better at it |
| 06:16.30 | royxue | sumanah that what i really should pay attention to |
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| 06:22.34 | sumanah | btw, IRC tip |
| 06:22.44 | sumanah | I use XChat and I changed my preferences so that tab completion goes by "spoke most recently" instead of just A-Z |
| 06:22.54 | sumanah | really nice, and reduces wrong completions |
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| 06:27.02 | novochen | never knew nick completion in XChat... |
| 06:27.08 | novochen | ty sumanah |
| 06:27.31 | sumanah | you're welcome novochen! |
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| 06:41.57 | Slurpee | sumanah, turns out we have http://ericduran.github.io/drupalcores/ |
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| 06:43.15 | sumanah | Slurpee: looking |
| 06:43.25 | sumanah | Slurpee: I've updated http://www.harihareswara.net/sumana/2014/03/06/0 a tiny bit too |
| 06:43.29 | sumanah | with a few more links |
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| 06:46.00 | sumanah | Slurpee: btw if you want to really get into contribution metrics, http://www.theopensourceway.org/mailman/listinfo/metrics-wg "This list is for discussing the what, how, and why of gathering and analyzing metrics about communities that practice the open source way." |
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| 06:46.26 | sumanah | because it's important to also capture bug reports, project management, mentorship, IRC help and mailing list help, etc as contributions |
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| 08:14.54 | cbosdonnat | Hello |
| 08:15.19 | cbosdonnat | are there any other org (than LibreOffice) getting students to apply as mentors on melange? |
| 08:15.34 | PulkoMandy | yes |
| 08:16.01 | olly | http://mostexcellent.org/ |
| 08:16.23 | PulkoMandy | that DNS propagation didn't get here yet :/ |
| 08:16.39 | olly | cbosdonnat: just politely reject them - they're either confused or trying to scam their way in |
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| 08:17.02 | cbosdonnat | olly, that's what I do for the while |
| 08:17.24 | olly | i think it doesn't help that students can't sign up as students until 10th |
| 08:17.40 | olly | so they look for some way to "sign up" and only find the mentor one |
| 08:18.37 | cbosdonnat | olly, well, those using this way really didn't read what they clicked on... as it's labeled "Mentors Apply Here" or something like that |
| 08:18.46 | PulkoMandy | I opened a bug report to the melange project - should be better next year... |
| 08:19.07 | cbosdonnat | PulkoMandy, do you have the bug number by chance? |
| 08:19.13 | olly | cbosdonnat: well, english isn't the native language of a lot of the students |
| 08:19.35 | PulkoMandy | cbosdonnat: 2063 |
| 08:19.48 | cbosdonnat | olly, at least those I had were Indian guys... so they should be pretty used to english I'ld guess ;) |
| 08:19.52 | cbosdonnat | PulkoMandy, thanks |
| 08:19.54 | olly | having failed to get a parcel redelivered today because I misread the form, I'm somewhat sympathetic |
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| 08:20.55 | Palash | thinks Indians are quite used to english. |
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| 09:17.05 | gevaerts | novochen: you know the page size is a setting? |
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| 09:17.43 | novochen | gevaerts, no I always keep my chrome fix sized |
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| 09:18.30 | gevaerts | novochen: is that related? I mean, at the bottom of the page, you can set how many orgs you want to see at once |
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| 09:19.34 | novochen | gevaerts, oh that... no I didn't see that... |
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| 11:08.06 | seshagiri | Is there any general application template for GSoC? Or is it the mentoring organization which decides the template for their applicants? |
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| 11:18.17 | PulkoMandy | seshagiri: each org has its own requirements - they all look pretty similar, but with slight differences |
| 11:18.55 | seshagiri | oh okay! |
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| 11:21.15 | Ivanovic | seshagiri: the most important part is to get in contact with the orgs you are interested in |
| 11:21.31 | Ivanovic | this is not some strange, out of the world human resources department wading through standard job applications |
| 11:21.44 | Ivanovic | so make sure to talk to the orgs and learn what they expect from you |
| 11:22.21 | Ivanovic | also talk to them about your specific idea |
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| 11:22.31 | Ivanovic | they will help you refine it |
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| 11:22.59 | Ivanovic | especially since they now the existing codebase probably better than you do, so they can more easily point out possible problems in the proposal you then can still address |
| 11:23.13 | Ivanovic | the easiest way to not be accepted is to not talk to the org and just submit the proposal |
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| 11:24.49 | seshagiri | yes, I am already in touch with the organization. They haven't posted anything about the template in their wiki. They said they would soon do. Meanwhile when I googled I found few organizations who have already put proposal template. That's why I was so curious to know whether the mentoring organizations change the template in Google Melange. |
| 11:26.03 | PulkoMandy | well, you can do something similar to other templates then |
| 11:26.22 | PulkoMandy | you can adjust it later if needed |
| 11:26.43 | Ivanovic | seshagiri: you can be pretty sure that the most important part is the project idea itself |
| 11:27.01 | Ivanovic | the rest is usually just a case of "nice to know" |
| 11:27.08 | seshagiri | okay! |
| 11:27.12 | PulkoMandy | is it the first time this org does gsoc? |
| 11:27.21 | seshagiri | PulkoMandy: yes |
| 11:27.40 | Ivanovic | the most important part in all the other information is probably the timezone in which you are in, which helps when matching with mentors |
| 11:27.43 | seshagiri | Ivanovic: What about the timeline/roadmap? |
| 11:27.56 | Ivanovic | that stuff all belongs to the proposal |
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| 11:28.18 | Ivanovic | IMO the most important parts in the application (besides the proposal itself) are: |
| 11:28.35 | Ivanovic | 1) which timezone you are in (aka "when will you be available to communicate with the mentor") |
| 11:29.00 | Ivanovic | 2) what are the expected times when you will not be able to work on gsoc (e.g. exams or already booked vacation) |
| 11:29.23 | Ivanovic | '2' is only important for the orgs so that they are briefed in advance, this usually does not lead to "not accepted" |
| 11:30.27 | Ivanovic | in fact an empty '2' can make the proposal sound illogical, e.g. if we are talking about a european student who tends to have the exams some time at the end of june / beginning of july |
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| 11:31.42 | seshagiri | yeah, that's true. |
| 11:31.45 | Ivanovic | seshagiri: if you want to see what a really good proposal can look like: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_AI_Improvement_Crab |
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| 11:34.56 | seshagiri | Ivanovic: Wow! That's an awesome one. The most detailed proposal I have ever come across. |
| 11:35.11 | Ivanovic | seshagiri: yeah, it is a great proposal from a great student |
| 11:35.18 | Ivanovic | who in the year afterwards became a mentor |
| 11:35.22 | seshagiri | Ivanovic: is it yours? :) |
| 11:35.28 | Ivanovic | these days the guy works for google in zurich |
| 11:35.30 | Ivanovic | nope |
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| 11:35.48 | seshagiri | oh! Cool :) |
| 11:37.26 | Ivanovic | never was a student in gsoc |
| 11:37.38 | Ivanovic | and i am also not a mentor |
| 11:37.50 | Ivanovic | i started out as admin while still being a student "many" years ago |
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| 11:38.53 | seshagiri | Ivanovic: when I was going through GSoC FAQ, it was mentioned that the application shouldn't be too lengthy. Will it decrease the chance of getting selected if I include a lot of details (similar to one mentioned above)? |
| 11:39.16 | Ivanovic | seshagiri: talk to your prefered orgs |
| 11:39.47 | Ivanovic | seshagiri: usually the orgs are happy if they see that you put some real thought behind the idea *and* made sure that it matches the org |
| 11:40.37 | Ivanovic | so having some understanding of how the org tends to work and how their codebase works helps |
| 11:40.45 | seshagiri | Ivanovic: what about the reviewers from Google. Will they accept lengthy applications even if the orgs rated it as the best? |
| 11:40.50 | Ivanovic | basically the orgs will help you improve your proposal, just make sure to discuss with them |
| 11:40.57 | Ivanovic | google has no say in the selection of the students |
| 11:41.00 | Ivanovic | this all depends on the orgs |
| 11:41.32 | Ivanovic | the orgs will ask for the number of slots, google will give the orgs slots based on the org (new or old) and how reasonable the asked number is |
| 11:41.36 | seshagiri | oh! That's a novel information to me |
| 11:41.53 | Ivanovic | google "only" provides the plattform and the money |
| 11:41.59 | Ivanovic | the rest is handled by the org |
| 11:42.23 | seshagiri | I see |
| 11:42.35 | PulkoMandy | I wouldn't reject an application for being too lengthy |
| 11:42.36 | PulkoMandy | I think the FAQ says that to make it sound less difficult to do for students? |
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| 11:52.53 | seshagiri | PulkoMandy: yes |
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| 11:53.54 | seshagiri | I was going through some online articles about how to write a good proposal by ex-gsoc students. I think, I noted about the length of the proposal from one of them :) |
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| 11:54.35 | PulkoMandy | well, you don't want to write a book and get the reviewer lost in it |
| 11:55.03 | PulkoMandy | but, a proposal like the one for wesnoth linked earlier looks good to me - even without reading it :) |
| 11:55.15 | seshagiri | heh! Yes, that's a valid point. |
| 11:56.12 | PulkoMandy | I see the student has a clear idea where he is going with goals and milestones, I see he has submitted some patches, which means he already knows his way in the project and probably has discussed most parts of the proposal with other developers |
| 11:56.26 | unitraxx | seshagiri: We had an 18 pages proposal last year, and it got accepted. On the other hand a 2 pages proposal also got accepted. |
| 11:57.16 | unitraxx | !logs |
| 11:57.16 | gsocbot | unitraxx: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
| 11:57.43 | seshagiri | 18 pages? That's incredible! |
| 11:57.43 | Ivanovic | seshagiri: just look at the history of the wiki page |
| 11:58.05 | Ivanovic | it shows you how the proposal evolved over time with more details and information *as the proposal was discussed with the development team* |
| 11:58.08 | PulkoMandy | as a student (in 2009), my proposal was more in the 2-page range, but had links to work in progress code and blog posts detailing the architecture I was thinking of. |
| 11:58.11 | PulkoMandy | this worked |
| 11:58.44 | Ivanovic | it is basically all about showing that you got a good idea what you are getting into and that you can work together with the rest of the community |
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| 11:59.03 | PulkoMandy | so yes, just get as much help as you can from the people already knowing the project - the goal here is to make the project move forward, so you don't work on this like a typical school assignment |
| 11:59.07 | Ivanovic | like listen to feedback and consider what of the feedback makes sense for you and what not |
| 11:59.30 | PulkoMandy | get as much help as you can, ask questions, have people read draft versions of your work and get input from them on how to improve it |
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| 12:01.19 | seshagiri | Thanks guys for the information :) |
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| 12:07.39 | yatharth01 | seshagiri: which org you applying to? |
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| 12:22.45 | aid | hi everyone |
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| 12:23.57 | aid | is it possible to participate if i have little experience in programming |
| 12:23.58 | aid | ? |
| 12:24.16 | kblin | depends on the specific project |
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| 12:24.46 | kblin | you should at least have the enthusiasm to learn programming during the summer :) |
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| 12:25.51 | aid | well, stepend provokes enthusiasm :) |
| 12:26.57 | aid | so, all the process will happen remotely? |
| 12:27.03 | aid | no need to go to usa? |
| 12:27.11 | PulkoMandy | look at the project ideas, try to find one that doesn't look too complicated for you, and have a try |
| 12:27.15 | PulkoMandy | no, you work from home |
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| 12:29.05 | aid | is list of organizations available already? I can't see any projects or organizations in the list :( |
| 12:29.34 | aid | It just says: List of oraginzations, and that's all |
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| 12:29.57 | gevaerts | Did you disable javascript or anything like that? |
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| 12:30.32 | aid | no, I sit from online webchat |
| 12:30.43 | aid | doesn't it work on js? |
| 12:30.47 | gevaerts | Huh? |
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| 12:31.11 | gevaerts | is confused |
| 12:31.27 | PulkoMandy | the list of organizations needs js, yes |
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| 12:31.39 | gevaerts | The list of organisations lives at http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2014 and has *nothing* to do with how you use irc |
| 12:32.28 | PulkoMandy | and it takes a while to load the actual list |
| 12:33.02 | PulkoMandy | mh... or do you need to be logged in? |
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| 12:33.13 | gevaerts | No |
| 12:33.30 | PulkoMandy | well I also get "List of organizations" and no list |
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| 12:33.44 | aid | may be the issue is on the server? |
| 12:34.30 | gevaerts | It works for me |
| 12:35.04 | gevaerts | Both in my standard browser and with a clean profile |
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| 12:35.38 | PulkoMandy | mh, yes, works now |
| 12:35.41 | aid | may be adblock or something |
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| 12:35.59 | PulkoMandy | just wait for the list to load, it takes some time here and there is no 'loading' indication or anything |
| 12:36.30 | aid | ok, so are there any artificial intelligence projects ? :) |
| 12:37.03 | PulkoMandy | use the tags in the list |
| 12:37.30 | PulkoMandy | I see OpenCog and Battle for Wesnoth have it in their tags |
| 12:37.45 | PulkoMandy | maybe "machine learning" or some other terms will get you more |
| 12:37.50 | gevaerts | Also look for ai |
| 12:38.24 | gevaerts | Or \bai\b if you enable regexp search :) |
| 12:39.52 | aid | still can't download the list :( is there any other way of reaching it? can anyone make a screenshot or something?) |
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| 12:41.58 | aid | i looked at firefoxes |
| 12:42.04 | unitraxx | aid: make sure the "name" and "tags" field is empty, it might have filtered 0 results. |
| 12:42.53 | aid | i have looked at firefoxes console, it says that "ReferenceError: $LAB is not defined" it is somehow connected with fetching ajax |
| 12:43.09 | aid | somewhere deep inside js |
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| 13:05.26 | aid | есть кто шпрехен по русски? |
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| 13:07.22 | novochen | nyet |
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| 13:13.55 | yatharth01 | is there anyone here from mozilla?? or any applicant for mozilla? |
| 13:14.53 | PulkoMandy | !anyone | yatharth01 |
| 13:14.54 | gsocbot | yatharth01: "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization directly. You can find an org's contact information via the org list at http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2014 |
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| 13:16.30 | yatharth01 | i mean if someone can guide me on project for mozilla? |
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| 13:21.09 | Niharika | yatharth01: Please ask on an IRC channel for mozilla. |
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| 13:26.03 | yatharth01 | Niharika: m getting no response over there!! :( |
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| 13:32.09 | yatharth01 | Niharika: u dere? |
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| 13:42.30 | kblin | yatharth01: it's not as if we could help any better |
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| 13:59.05 | downey | yatharth01: Looks like their profile page on the GSoC site lists 5 different ways to contact them. |
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| 14:39.59 | shweta | hi all... i want to participate in gsoc... where should i begin? |
| 14:40.20 | andre__ | find an organization and project that interests you :) |
| 14:41.15 | shweta | andre_: thanks :) |
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| 14:42.24 | jbisch | shrihari: http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ch005_choosing-an-organization/ |
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| 14:42.35 | andre__ | shweta: most organizations that take part have a list of ideas on their wikis. |
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| 14:43.24 | darnir | andre__: Not most. All organizations have an ideas list. Else, they wouldn't be selected |
| 14:44.31 | andre__ | darnir, good. I hoped so :) |
| 14:44.59 | shweta | andre__: so are we supossed to contact any particular mentor, is it possible here or via mails? |
| 14:45.02 | kartik_bawa | can i apply for multiple projects of same organisation? |
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| 14:45.57 | andre__ | kartik_bawa, https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page#6._Can_a_student_submit_more_than_one |
| 14:46.25 | andre__ | shweta: yes, you are supposed to actively contact mentors for ideas that interest you. I don't think that all mentors of all organizations are in this IRC channel though. |
| 14:46.56 | andre__ | shweta, also see https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page#4._How_does_a_student_apply |
| 14:49.17 | kartik_bawa | if i want to submit all my 5 proposals for one specific organisation..Can i do that? |
| 14:49.50 | heller__ | kartik_bawa: i'd suggest to discuss that with the mentors. I guess that highly depends on the org |
| 14:50.26 | kartik_bawa | thanks |
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| 14:52.14 | DaSpirit | Wow 5, that's insane. |
| 14:53.16 | kartik_bawa | i dont mean all 5 but atleast 2 |
| 14:54.01 | PulkoMandy | writing 2 proposals sounds possible - and in our case we even request students to do that, if we see they applied to a popular idea |
| 14:54.05 | shweta | andre__: thanks :) i'll luk into it |
| 14:54.12 | PulkoMandy | but writing 5 good proposals sounds like a huge lot of work :) |
| 14:54.40 | derdon | PulkoMandy: kartik_bawa didn't say he wants to write good proposals :P |
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| 14:54.54 | derdon | quantity > quality :P |
| 14:55.01 | PulkoMandy | most desirable proposals? |
| 14:55.41 | arpits | is there any mentor from django |
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| 14:57.02 | kartik_bawa | i have perfect skills,knowledge and experience to write proposal on 3 ideas of one organisation.. |
| 14:57.27 | heller__ | if you say so ... ;) |
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| 14:57.48 | edsiper | kartik_bawa, choose the one that motivates you more |
| 14:59.57 | kartik_bawa | i know quality is better than quantity but all three ideas are of datastructure and i think i can write good proposal for all three |
| 15:00.14 | kartik_bawa | so it might increase my chance of selection |
| 15:02.05 | kartik_bawa | PulkoMandy: any suggestions? |
| 15:02.41 | PulkoMandy | ask the org what they think about it |
| 15:03.02 | PulkoMandy | they make the decision, ultimately |
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| 15:11.04 | arpits | what are the chances of selection of a new proposal to some orgnisation |
| 15:12.50 | blast007 | !odds |
| 15:12.50 | gsocbot | blast007: "odds" is Odds, chances or probability really do not come into play for GSoC. Rambling off numbers or asking What are the odds of getting accepted... is really quite useless as one's acceptance is not dictated by luck or numbers, but by the quality of your proposal and your skills instead. |
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| 15:13.40 | Ivanovic | arpits: your chance to be accepted is 100% |
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| 15:13.56 | Ivanovic | if your proposal is good and you show the org that you are the right student to get it done fitting into the community |
| 15:14.06 | Ivanovic | and 0% if you are not showing this |
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| 15:18.21 | arpits | Ivanoic: I have a proposal need it be related to the present ideas that are provided or it could be a totally ne idea |
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| 15:18.52 | PulkoMandy | ask the org what they think about it |
| 15:19.54 | arpits | in general are they willing to consider a totally new idea or the stick to their plans |
| 15:20.27 | PulkoMandy | ask the org. it depends on the org. |
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| 15:29.04 | arpits | in past which all org had accepted new proposals |
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| 15:30.01 | PulkoMandy | there is no simple yes/no answer to this |
| 15:30.51 | PulkoMandy | some orgs may accept some original proposals, if they have someone who can mentor it, the subject feels important to them, and the student does a good work of setting up the proposal |
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| 15:31.35 | PulkoMandy | the same org may reject another original proposal because they decide it isn't interesting for them, or the student looks like he doesn't understand what he is doing, or they don't have a mentor available who knows relevant parts of the project |
| 15:31.49 | blast007 | arpits: why can't you just ask the org? |
| 15:32.27 | blast007 | arpits: regardless of if you pick an idea from their list or a new idea, you should be talking with the org |
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| 15:47.52 | arpits | all trhe ideas listed by the org become the part of gsoc, or a shortlistig is done of the ideas |
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| 16:09.00 | sumanah | *wave* |
| 16:10.34 | vkmc | *waves back* |
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| 16:11.36 | sumanah | hi vkmc. How's your open source journey today? |
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| 16:12.03 | gevaerts | darnir: not all, most. There's one exception :) |
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| 16:14.08 | vkmc | sumanah, All good! It has been an busy morning today... how about you? |
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| 16:15.06 | sumanah | Today is a learning day. :) Today I want to be able to understand - well enough that I can explain to others - what a service-oriented architecture is, and what other possible architectures are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service-oriented_architecture |
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| 16:16.28 | vkmc | sumanah, Great challenge :) |
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| 16:18.05 | sumanah | my first step was skimming the beginning of the Wikipedia article. Now I get to read as much as I can understand of _RESTful Web APIs_, a book my spouse wrote :) |
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| 16:20.56 | dims | sumanah, nice to meet you, i've met sam ruby's wife :) |
| 16:21.17 | sumanah | Ha! Leonard (my spouse) and Sam Ruby wrote a book together several years ago. Nice to meet you dims |
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| 16:30.42 | darnir | gevaerts: What's the exception? |
| 16:30.51 | gevaerts | darnir: gospo |
| 16:31.00 | darnir | Let me check. This should be interesting. |
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| 16:31.28 | darnir | Because even popular umbrella organizations cannot get through without atleast a basic ideas page |
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| 16:32.36 | darnir | gevaerts: I can't see gospo in the list of accepted organizations on melange |
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| 16:33.17 | gevaerts | darnir: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org2/google/gsoc2014/ospo |
| 16:33.49 | darnir | Aah! OSPO. Well, sure. That's the only exception! |
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| 16:43.36 | tierra | plug |
| 16:43.47 | sumanah | tierra: what are you plugging? :) |
| 16:43.59 | tierra | wrong window, heh |
| 16:44.08 | sumanah | oh :) |
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| 17:00.40 | rbugaian_ | Hi |
| 17:00.47 | rbugaian_ | is anybody here? |
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| 17:01.17 | sumanah | hi rbugaian_ |
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| 17:01.56 | jbisch | many people are here |
| 17:02.19 | rbugaian_ | are there any fees for gsoc registration? |
| 17:02.36 | jbisch | nope |
| 17:03.08 | sumanah | !faq |
| 17:03.08 | gsocbot | sumanah: "faq" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page |
| 17:03.26 | sumanah | rbugaian_: you might find that "frequently asked questions" page helpful - http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page |
| 17:03.35 | sumanah | (not for this question, but future ones) |
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| 17:05.07 | rbugaian_ | thanks |
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| 17:39.44 | allman | morning all. |
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| 17:40.21 | saketkc | allman: I'ts evening here ;-) |
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| 17:41.02 | allman | As the Mad Hatter said, "It's always 6 o'clock here." ;-) |
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| 17:41.49 | allman | I'm in San Francisco but still on Phnom Penh time, so I'm really not sure what time it is :) |
| 17:41.58 | saketkc | Yup exactly, the evening one ;-) |
| 17:42.11 | saketkc | It's 17:42 |
| 17:42.13 | saketkc | GMT |
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| 18:43.48 | yuriy-k | Hello! |
| 18:44.13 | TCD | Hey. |
| 18:46.34 | yuriy-k | May I ask a question about GSoC here concerning "Students and Eligibility"-topic? |
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| 18:46.54 | stqism | yuriy-k: Ask, don't ask to ask :) |
| 18:46.59 | yuriy-k | ) |
| 18:47.42 | yuriy-k | ok..well... I am a student of Cousera - may I participate GSoC? |
| 18:47.55 | stqism | !faq |
| 18:47.55 | gsocbot | stqism: "faq" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page |
| 18:48.08 | stqism | Coursera is software, right? |
| 18:48.13 | stqism | Like a website |
| 18:48.34 | TCD | Website/MOOC |
| 18:48.35 | gevaerts | As far as I know, Coursera is not accredited |
| 18:48.44 | gevaerts | Which is the magic word here |
| 18:48.47 | yuriy-k | Cousrera - https://www.coursera.org/ |
| 18:48.51 | stqism | Are they, yuriy-k? |
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| 18:49.16 | stqism | Like could I get a degree from them and use it to transfer to a University? |
| 18:49.22 | purplex | yuriy-k, does coursera provide you a proof that you are studying there, and it is an accredited college/university? I guess no, so you can't apply. |
| 18:50.43 | stqism | "You acknowledge that the Statement of Accomplishment, and Courseras Online Courses, will not stand in the place of a course taken at an accredited institution, and do not convey academic credit." |
| 18:51.00 | stqism | From the terms of service, no |
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| 18:56.56 | yuriy-k | I have observed GSoC and Coursera FAQs certainly, but I would like to do not guess but get official answer. stqism, now I see - Coursera keeps this information in TOU-page. |
| 18:57.21 | stqism | Correct |
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| 19:01.28 | terri | Actually, I believe some coursera courses do have an option where you can pay and get credit from an actual university. |
| 19:01.28 | terri | But I don't know if that would count for GSoC purposes |
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| 19:03.28 | stqism | terri: I |
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| 19:04.07 | stqism | terri: I'm pretty sure it has to be an accredited university, I looked at the little ACE credit thing, and it didn't look like it would fly |
| 19:04.45 | allman | I would say no, it would not apply. |
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| 19:05.00 | terri | stqism: I'm just thinking that i took a course from the Univeristy of Illinois (which is a real, accredited university) and they offered a for-credit option on coursera |
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| 19:05.37 | terri | since I really really don't need university credits, I didn't look into the details, but it did sound like it might be a real credit from a real university |
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| 19:06.55 | allman | Interesting corner case, but I would argue that getting credit for an online course from an accredited university afterwards is not the same as being enrolled in an accredited university. |
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| 19:07.11 | allman | The key is being enrolled. |
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| 19:09.14 | terri | Yeah, I'd be sort of surprised if it counts |
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| 19:09.52 | terri | but since the wording is set to allow for distance learning students that aren't in MOOCs, it's possible that the edge case would work. Best to ask Carol |
| 19:10.30 | gevaerts | thinks that an answer from allman is probably just as good as one from carols :) |
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| 19:12.11 | terri | true! |
| 19:13.06 | terri | is in class herself and hadn't noticed who was talking. So observant. :P |
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| 19:13.41 | terri | is quite sure her class doens't count. ;) |
| 19:14.05 | gevaerts | terri: luckily you don't need accreditation for org adminning :) |
| 19:14.05 | meflin | like you need more credits :P |
| 19:15.17 | terri | meflin: but I'm learning about cats riding roombas wearing shark costumes! that's important! |
| 19:15.23 | terri | Also, android permissions. Supposedly. ;) |
| 19:15.40 | yuriy-k | terri, who is Carol? Will she visit this IRC-channel? |
| 19:15.45 | meflin | its all about the sharks |
| 19:15.59 | stqism | yuriy-k: Carols is in charge of all this |
| 19:15.59 | olly | yuriy-k: she's often here working hours in california |
| 19:16.01 | meflin | she will ... the is the program administrator for GSOC |
| 19:16.09 | TCD | that makes sense. |
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| 19:16.22 | olly | but allman' is her boss AIUI |
| 19:16.53 | meflin | yea but allman does serve tea |
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| 19:16.59 | meflin | doesn't |
| 19:17.03 | gevaerts | Boo! |
| 19:17.13 | downey | mmm, tea |
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| 19:19.36 | yuriy-k | Meanwhile Carol is absent - may some one tell about Udacity ( https://www.udacity.com/ ) ? |
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| 19:20.06 | yuriy-k | (MOOS as well as Coursera) |
| 19:20.15 | stqism | yuriy-k: You'd have to contact that mentor |
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| 19:23.31 | yuriy-k | stqism: for sure - do you speak about Carol? |
| 19:23.56 | stqism | yuriy-k: Yes |
| 19:25.00 | yuriy-k | stqism: What is her irc-nick? |
| 19:25.17 | stqism | carols |
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| 19:25.57 | TCD | she'll probably appear soon |
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| 19:27.32 | croozeus | !logs |
| 19:27.33 | gsocbot | croozeus: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
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| 19:32.48 | yuriy-k | stqism: thanks a lot. |
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| 19:33.26 | yuriy-k | I will visit this channel ater. Many happy returns. |
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| 19:46.32 | VarunAgw | !good_enough |
| 19:46.41 | VarunAgw | !goodenough |
| 19:46.42 | gsocbot | VarunAgw: "goodenough" is Am I good enough to be a student for GSoC? http://www.booki.cc/gsocstudentguide/am-i-good-enough/ |
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| 19:51.25 | brlcad | just FYI, from the introductions and discussions we're having, and I'm sure we're not alone, but we're still far under our mentoring capacity if anyone is interested in applying to BRL-CAD |
| 19:51.38 | PulkoMandy | same here for Haiku |
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| 19:51.58 | brlcad | we added a bunch of additional ideas recently as well and will be expanding on them over the next couple days |
| 19:52.12 | PulkoMandy | we *should* do that :/ |
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| 19:53.35 | umccullough | which, add more ideas? |
| 19:53.50 | brlcad | wants a "port Tk to Haiku" so we can run our GUI there (I already ported our core) |
| 19:53.57 | PulkoMandy | expand on them |
| 19:54.05 | TCD | brlcad: I was interested, but I thikn my lack of experience would let me down :p |
| 19:54.07 | PulkoMandy | brlcad: interested in co-mentoring? |
| 19:54.27 | PulkoMandy | (we did that to get an SDL2 port, worked quite well) |
| 19:54.30 | brlcad | PulkoMandy: if it makes sense, sure |
| 19:54.53 | brlcad | TCD: lack of experience? you're presumably applying somewhere no? |
| 19:54.58 | brlcad | we have projects for all ability levels |
| 19:55.10 | brlcad | ability level is not one of our selection criteria |
| 19:55.18 | TCD | Hrm. |
| 19:55.32 | PulkoMandy | brlcad: what we did for SDL was we were mentoring it as far as GSoC goes, but one of SDL devs was monitoring the project and providing input from their side |
| 19:55.39 | brlcad | having a proposal tailored to YOUR ability level IS one of our criteria |
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| 19:56.59 | brlcad | PulkoMandy: certainly willing if we can attract a viable student for that task, we can add a tasker to our list and direct them to you guys or vice versa |
| 19:57.38 | brlcad | we're collaborating with three other communities this year, so it's actually in line with what we're already doing |
| 19:57.57 | olly | would suggest listing such ideas for both orgs |
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| 19:58.39 | TCD | namely my C++ is sitting somewhere around 'rusty', heh |
| 19:58.39 | brlcad | thinks haiku would get some good leverage with Tk given all the frameworks that use it (Python/Tk, Perl/Tk, Tcl/Tk) |
| 19:59.13 | brlcad | TCD: so don't propose a C++ project or propose a slightly "easier" C++ project ;) |
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| 19:59.47 | TCD | heh |
| 19:59.49 | PulkoMandy | TCD: haiku use gcc2, a rusty compiler |
| 19:59.58 | PulkoMandy | so, that should work well? :) |
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| 20:00.16 | TCD | two rustys don't make a...uh...less rusty? :p |
| 20:00.45 | umccullough | rust in good company |
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| 20:01.04 | umccullough | at the very least, two rusty's don't look out of place together |
| 20:01.05 | PulkoMandy | our compiler is compatible with your rusty code |
| 20:01.11 | PulkoMandy | no need to go fancy with C++11 here |
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| 20:01.28 | umccullough | also, no need for fancy C99 |
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| 20:02.02 | stqism | umccullough: Yeah, we're c89 now |
| 20:02.30 | olly | well, at least you're not still on K&R |
| 20:02.39 | olly | or writing in BCPL |
| 20:02.43 | gevaerts | stqism: // or no // ? :) |
| 20:02.44 | umccullough | hides his K&R book |
| 20:02.58 | PulkoMandy | olly: fortunately, most of haiku is C++. Plain C89 would be no fun |
| 20:03.01 | olly | or hand punch machine code into paper tapes |
| 20:03.08 | brlcad | heh, I just fired up an old SGI O2 I had lying around to perform a comparison against where we were 15 years ago performance-wise ... the gcc2 compiler was by far the biggest obstacle |
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| 20:03.16 | olly | PulkoMandy: why gcc2? |
| 20:03.20 | brlcad | all our new C++ code constructs.. it choked |
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| 20:03.24 | umccullough | cuz beos |
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| 20:03.56 | brlcad | I thought you guys had gcc3 running last year? |
| 20:04.05 | umccullough | haiku uses gcc2 and gcc4 |
| 20:04.11 | brlcad | okay |
| 20:04.19 | brlcad | that's not bad at all :) |
| 20:04.21 | PulkoMandy | binary compatibility with BeOS |
| 20:04.22 | PulkoMandy | gcc3 introduced a new C++ mangling, which breaks that |
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| 20:04.22 | PulkoMandy | and one of our goals is to keep these old apps running |
| 20:04.22 | PulkoMandy | (well, only for x86, all other ports use gcc4) |
| 20:04.23 | PulkoMandy | and on x86, both compiler are available with two sets of libraries |
| 20:04.25 | umccullough | gcc2 to remain ABI compatible with beos which used gcc2 (and thus, the older gcc2 C++ name mangling format) |
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| 20:04.26 | brlcad | old for compatibility, new for sanity |
| 20:04.30 | PulkoMandy | yes, we have gcc4 for apps |
| 20:04.32 | meflin | hmm I wonder where my O2's went |
| 20:04.42 | olly | umccullough: ? |
| 20:04.42 | olly | i mean i know what beos is, but I don't understand the logic |
| 20:04.49 | olly | ah |
| 20:04.50 | PulkoMandy | it's just that our own code must still work with gcc2 as well |
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| 20:05.30 | olly | wonders if you could have a shim generator which added all the old-mangled symbol names as aliases, or something |
| 20:05.30 | PulkoMandy | in theroy, we could use clang which has support for the gcc2 ABI. But no one tried that yet |
| 20:05.31 | umccullough | it's my understanding that newer c++ features were simply incompatible with the name mangling used in gcc2 anyway |
| 20:05.41 | olly | perhaps the ABI changed in other ways too |
| 20:05.58 | PulkoMandy | olly: that's not enough, unfortunately - object size must also match, for one |
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| 20:06.07 | confused | !logs |
| 20:06.08 | gsocbot | confused: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
| 20:06.08 | PulkoMandy | and there will likely be other problems once we get past those |
| 20:06.17 | olly | ah yes, if you use any STL stuff, that'll be awkward |
| 20:06.24 | olly | in the APIs that is |
| 20:06.46 | PulkoMandy | yes, we're also stuck with an antique glibc and libstdc++ for the gcc2 part |
| 20:07.00 | PulkoMandy | the easy fix is move away from x86, anyway (to ARM or x86_64) |
| 20:07.01 | umccullough | bits of glibc were updated at least ;) |
| 20:07.30 | PulkoMandy | yes, we did some fixes to our gcc2 as well (wchar support, ...) and to libstdc++ to make it a bit less broken |
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| 20:07.47 | umccullough | we also updated newer binutils to work |
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| 20:08.41 | umccullough | and also added some elf header info to easily detect what compiler a binary was compiled with, etc. |
| 20:09.52 | brlcad | was excited to hear about the recent advancements over where Be left off .. like finally not having the 8 cpu count limit :) |
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| 20:10.27 | umccullough | yeah, that limit still applies to binaries built for beos, however |
| 20:10.45 | brlcad | wants to put the scheduler to the test with 1000's of simultaneous number-crunching render threads |
| 20:10.45 | confused | I am trying to contribute to any organisation but facing problem understanding their codebase. Is this is a red sign for me to quit? |
| 20:11.01 | umccullough | heh, it needs more testing - it's still buggy |
| 20:11.12 | brlcad | confused: no, it just means you need to be more patient and communicative perhaps ;) |
| 20:11.24 | brlcad | ask questions, don't just wander |
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| 20:11.49 | brlcad | you're not going to get up to speed on any of the bigger projects in a couple days/weeks/years |
| 20:12.36 | brlcad | focus on getting a big picture of some goal, something you want to do/improve, then learn what you need to towards accomplishing that goal |
| 20:12.41 | brlcad | ask questions to help you get there |
| 20:12.58 | olly | you only really need to understand the code in the area you're working in in detail |
| 20:13.21 | confused | brlcad: I want to ask questions but I feel like if I ask questions, I maybe considered less knowledgeble and will reduce their chance of selection. Is it really true? |
| 20:14.02 | gevaerts | confused: asking questions is fine |
| 20:14.04 | TCD | confused: I've asked tons of questions and they've been happy to help me |
| 20:14.05 | olly | confused: i'd rather a student asked questions than assumed they knew the answers |
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| 20:14.26 | confused | Thanks |
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| 20:14.37 | confused | I am feeling more confident now. |
| 20:14.37 | olly | a student who quietly plows off in the wrong direction and is hard to correct is one of the most frustrating types |
| 20:14.41 | PulkoMandy | asking questions is encouraged here |
| 20:14.46 | meflin | also the best questions make you look better :D |
| 20:14.57 | PulkoMandy | it shows you are going to turn to your mentor when you hit a problem |
| 20:15.09 | PulkoMandy | not spend a month trying to solve it yourself without signs of activity |
| 20:15.21 | confused | ha ha |
| 20:15.26 | umccullough | start by asking if there is any documentation you can reference ;) |
| 20:15.45 | umccullough | when they admit there isn't (and that's probably the case), then you are perfectly justified to ask questions directly |
| 20:16.15 | brlcad | confused: yeah, think of it from a mentor's perspective -- would YOU rather work with someone that slams their head against a wall for hours, or someone who asks where the doorknob is? |
| 20:17.15 | olly | TBH, I'd rather they looked for the doorknob first, but asked if they couldn't find it |
| 20:17.17 | brlcad | even if you don't want to seem dumb and the doorknob is right in front of you, it's only sometimes bad when you ask questions without even trying or reading or thinking just a little bit |
| 20:17.25 | brlcad | bad: "tell me what to do next" |
| 20:17.40 | gevaerts | The worst ones are those who unscrew the hinges |
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| 20:17.49 | olly | yeah, from our side, answering broad or vague questions is much harder |
| 20:18.00 | olly | specific questions are better |
| 20:18.28 | olly | gevaerts: dunno, i quite admire that sort of thinking |
| 20:18.57 | gevaerts | olly: maybe you're right. They could be going at the door with a crowbar :) |
| 20:19.05 | confused | Just one small last question: Does this situation happens with mostly GSoC student or I am rare one. I mean I find it difficult to understand code base, don't use tools they use like travis-ci and many other. Does it happen with mostly students? |
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| 20:19.20 | gevaerts | confused: it happens to many |
| 20:19.29 | TCD | confused: I'm similar, so it's either most students or we're both in the same boat :p |
| 20:19.33 | gevaerts | Students often haven't worked with large codebases |
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| 20:19.39 | TCD | well, I've started getting the hang of larger codebases, but stil |
| 20:19.40 | TCD | l |
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| 20:20.06 | olly | there's quite an art to find the right screenful of code out of a million lines |
| 20:20.11 | confused | Yes, Its my first professional work experience and first open source experience |
| 20:20.35 | confused | olly: IDE helps a lot ;) |
| 20:20.57 | olly | dunno, I've not used one for decades |
| 20:21.03 | gevaerts | thinks IDEs tend to have too many disadvantages to be worth the effort |
| 20:21.06 | brlcad | ditto :) |
| 20:21.13 | derdon | agrees |
| 20:21.16 | olly | "git grep" is very handy though |
| 20:21.20 | gevaerts | Most of them don't come with usable editors, for a start |
| 20:21.36 | derdon | if you really need an IDE, the chance is high that it's the case because the language sucks |
| 20:22.01 | gevaerts | Hmmm |
| 20:22.04 | brlcad | when you know what's going on under the good, intimately, an IDE often just then gets in the way when you want to get something specific done |
| 20:22.04 | gevaerts | thinks |
| 20:22.15 | gevaerts | olly: do you mean you used an IDE in your zx81 days? |
| 20:22.16 | stqism | derdon: +1 |
| 20:22.28 | stqism | Vim is the best ide. |
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| 20:22.37 | confident | IDE is helping me a lot to understand how the flow of control is going |
| 20:22.39 | derdon | it's not an IDE though :D |
| 20:22.46 | stqism | That's the joke ;) |
| 20:22.47 | TCD | Is it really that bad that it's nice to be able to navigate code easier? |
| 20:22.58 | olly | gevaerts: in my MSDOS days in fact |
| 20:23.05 | stqism | Vim is super easy to navigate with! |
| 20:23.05 | PulkoMandy | we have online tools for this |
| 20:23.21 | derdon | TCD: where do you cross the line between an editor with a lot of plugins and features and an IDE? |
| 20:23.39 | gevaerts | IDEs do have some useful features, true, but for me they tend to get in the way |
| 20:23.47 | PulkoMandy | http://grok.bikemonkey.org/source/ |
| 20:23.50 | brlcad | derdon: having to take your hands off the keyboard ;) |
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| 20:23.53 | derdon | TCD: what if you have an editor with a plugin to jump easily to certain functions. classes and so on? is that already an IDE? |
| 20:24.11 | derdon | brlcad: I never do that ;) |
| 20:24.17 | brlcad | exactly |
| 20:24.20 | brlcad | that's where the line is |
| 20:24.28 | TCD | derdon: When it has compilation/building built in |
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| 20:24.37 | TCD | then it becomes an integrated development environment |
| 20:24.38 | stqism | I don't mind a text editor with a shortcut to a command like clang -I /usr/local/include etc, but I don't want to see 30 menus and options, I want to see code |
| 20:24.45 | derdon | TCD: then vim is an IDE, according to your definition |
| 20:24.50 | gevaerts | TCD: so ":make"? |
| 20:24.58 | brlcad | emacs, vim, whatever .. proficiency and efficiency are in the input mechanisms (keyboard, modalities), not the presentation/interface |
| 20:25.08 | TCD | gevaerts: That lacks the text editor part :p |
| 20:25.18 | derdon | what |
| 20:25.18 | gevaerts | TCD: not "make" |
| 20:25.21 | gevaerts | ":make" |
| 20:25.23 | TCD | Oh. |
| 20:25.24 | derdon | TCD: :make is a vim command |
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| 20:25.45 | TCD | Yeah, my knowledge of vim is basically limited to movement and going between insert and command mode. |
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| 20:26.17 | gevaerts | In that case vim is *probably* not the most efficient editor to use for you :) |
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| 20:26.33 | TCD | Thus why I don't use it ;) |
| 20:26.39 | TCD | (If I knew it, sure) |
| 20:26.45 | summatusmentis | dGu1ggdG >_> |
| 20:27.04 | gevaerts | wonders about the >_> in that command :) |
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| 20:27.08 | olly | i think he's trying to tell us something |
| 20:27.16 | paultag | his password |
| 20:27.17 | brlcad | TCD: the advice I always give my interns, students, and other new coders is the same: pick at least one tool (whether it be emacs, vim, eclipse, or even some other IDE) and spend the time to learn it INTIMATELY ... no excuses, not later |
| 20:27.18 | olly | what's that boy? there's someone trapped in the old mine? |
| 20:27.28 | paultag | hahahahaha |
| 20:27.30 | summatusmentis | you guys all need to get better at vim |
| 20:27.40 | paultag | Oh I see it now |
| 20:27.49 | paultag | I've never looked at vim commands printed before |
| 20:27.51 | paultag | god that's ugly |
| 20:28.00 | summatusmentis | you don't actually need the first 3 letters |
| 20:28.02 | TCD | hm. |
| 20:28.18 | paultag | ggdG |
| 20:28.19 | paultag | nom |
| 20:28.28 | olly | does that delete the whole file? |
| 20:28.31 | summatusmentis | yeh |
| 20:28.49 | summatusmentis | roughly the rm -rf * of the vim world |
| 20:29.01 | brlcad | M-x vi-mode |
| 20:29.03 | olly | it's amazing how hard it is to read stuff I'd just type without thinking |
| 20:29.28 | PulkoMandy | write-only languages |
| 20:29.32 | PulkoMandy | just like regexp and perl |
| 20:29.44 | gevaerts | PulkoMandy: regular expressions are perfectly readabl! |
| 20:29.48 | gevaerts | *e |
| 20:30.04 | brlcad | is disappointed you didn't use a regex to correct yourself |
| 20:30.24 | gevaerts | :) |
| 20:30.24 | brlcad | /^.*$/d |
| 20:30.27 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:30.36 | gevaerts | s/\*e/PulkoMandy: regular expressions are perfectly readable!/ |
| 20:30.58 | teepee | write-only code has not much to do with the language, it comes from people who can't read code ;) |
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| 20:31.31 | PulkoMandy | teepee: I'd tend to blame the people who write the code - but... |
| 20:31.35 | PulkoMandy | maybe I'm a bad reader |
| 20:31.46 | PulkoMandy | and I'll end up blaming myself this way |
| 20:32.00 | gevaerts | PulkoMandy: maybe it's when people who can't read code try to write code? |
| 20:32.11 | TCD | blargh, the list of orgs I want to look further into (other than the 1 I'm firm on) is too long |
| 20:32.21 | gevaerts | TCD: make it shorter! |
| 20:32.36 | teepee | gevaerts: well, i tried to say that :) |
| 20:32.50 | olly | pick a letter you like, and type it into the org name filter |
| 20:32.53 | TCD | gevaerts: I did! then it got longer again! then I thought I had it shorter! then SOME PEOPLE come in with pretty cool orgs which I hadn't seen before. |
| 20:32.55 | gevaerts | teepee: yes, I suspected as much and then tried to steal credit :) |
| 20:33.53 | confident | Is it possible to check how many other students have applied for a particular project or an organisation during the application period? |
| 20:34.12 | TCD | I presume not, to avoid abuse :p |
| 20:34.25 | gevaerts | confident: not in general, although you can ask, and if you hang out in their irc channel or on their mailing list you can get some idea |
| 20:34.35 | gevaerts | They're not obliged to tell you though |
| 20:34.36 | teepee | gevaerts: it's just an observation, i'm ok with sharing the credits for that |
| 20:34.49 | gevaerts | teepee: oh, but I didn't want to *share*! |
| 20:35.08 | gevaerts | is an oyster |
| 20:35.18 | TCD | I've noticed some projects have channels and mailing lists full of intro threads, and then at least one I've seen has had...all of 2 threads |
| 20:35.35 | teepee | gevaerts: you have to. because logs :P |
| 20:36.14 | gevaerts | teepee: my shellfish nature will win out in the end! :) |
| 20:36.25 | PulkoMandy | TCD: I was wondering about that, seems some orgs get much more traffic. Is our ideas list looking so bad to students ? |
| 20:36.50 | TCD | PulkoMandy: Could be a lot of students just completely blank out at the idea of an OS? :P |
| 20:37.00 | brlcad | TCD: BRL-CAD's on your list, right? |
| 20:37.05 | TCD | brlcad: It is now, actually |
| 20:37.10 | brlcad | good |
| 20:37.15 | TCD | it's moved closer to the top |
| 20:37.24 | stqism | PulkoMandy: We noted a strong pull towards Android |
| 20:37.31 | PulkoMandy | well, previous years we got some students, at least |
| 20:37.34 | brlcad | the one you're set on is .. just terrible |
| 20:37.44 | brlcad | (just kidding, no idea who that is) ;) |
| 20:37.53 | TCD | Hah |
| 20:38.08 | confident | Its the first time I am hearing that organisations are not getting students. |
| 20:38.10 | olly | confident: for most orgs, the majority of applications come in right near the end, so even if you know the number half way in, it's not a great guide |
| 20:38.13 | gevaerts | TCD: can I recommend <random other org> to have a look at? |
| 20:38.33 | brlcad | confident: students tend to swarm to notable orgs and new orgs |
| 20:38.58 | TCD | PulkoMandy: Maybe also, judging by the amount of these 'most desirable org' type proposals I've heard about, people are avoiding the ones which require more thought to build and compile? :P |
| 20:39.07 | stqism | We had a very large rush early on, but its stabilized |
| 20:39.15 | brlcad | ditto |
| 20:39.43 | brlcad | unfortunately, that rush isn't to our capacity, even if we slotted everyone, which isn't likely |
| 20:39.50 | olly | an issue with new orgs is they typically get only a couple of slots, so while I wouldn't want students to avoid new orgs, if it's a new org and seems very popular, you probably want to make a second application elsewhere |
| 20:40.01 | olly | brlcad: it'll be busier next week though |
| 20:40.03 | olly | always is |
| 20:40.21 | PulkoMandy | well, yes |
| 20:40.22 | brlcad | I know, that's why I'm on the hunt :) |
| 20:40.36 | brlcad | we get a rush and they don't/can't get nearly enough attention in the short timeframe allotted |
| 20:40.54 | brlcad | so their proposals tend to be weaker than the ones that start this week |
| 20:41.03 | brlcad | not impossible, but .. harder |
| 20:41.09 | TCD | brlcad: So I could make a proposal saying 'I will write some code' and I'd get accepted? ;D |
| 20:41.16 | PulkoMandy | taking one more week to work on your proposal sure helps, anyway |
| 20:41.22 | timaa2k | Hi :) |
| 20:41.30 | teepee | brlcad: we'll help (a tiny bit ;) |
| 20:41.42 | brlcad | TCD: sure, I accept you for who you are and your life decisions ;) |
| 20:42.12 | TCD | woooo! |
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| 20:43.39 | timaa2k | I'm close to graduation in computer science at my university, but feel extremly underqualified for any gsoc proposal .. |
| 20:43.57 | TCD | timaa2k: Could be impostor syndrome? |
| 20:44.09 | rlyshw | lol |
| 20:44.19 | brlcad | "fake it until you make it" |
| 20:44.22 | paultag | no, srsly |
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| 20:47.20 | olly | !amigoodenough | timaa2k |
| 20:47.21 | gsocbot | timaa2k: "amigoodenough" is http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ch003_am-i-good-enough/ |
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| 20:52.21 | timaa2k | i only wanted to know how a typical soc works from an students perspective |
| 20:52.37 | TCD | code, code, code, sleep, code, code, code? |
| 20:52.44 | brlcad | eat |
| 20:52.45 | paultag | nom |
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| 20:52.51 | umccullough | get paid |
| 20:53.02 | paultag | what comes before part b? |
| 20:53.06 | paultag | PART-A! |
| 20:53.11 | TCD | groans. |
| 20:53.12 | timaa2k | do you only apply if you could start right away? |
| 20:53.22 | TCD | timaa2k: I believe the start period is the end of may |
| 20:53.31 | brlcad | you can start right away |
| 20:53.43 | brlcad | you just can't count that work for gsoc |
| 20:53.54 | umccullough | well... |
| 20:53.55 | brlcad | open source, baby |
| 20:53.55 | paultag | I don't allow kids to start working before if they're not already doing work |
| 20:54.04 | paultag | but I'm not the admin anymore |
| 20:54.08 | paultag | so meh :) |
| 20:54.20 | olly | ? |
| 20:54.22 | paultag | (hi olasd) |
| 20:54.28 | olly | how do you stop them? |
| 20:54.36 | olly | how did you stop them? |
| 20:54.38 | paultag | olly: tell them to stop |
| 20:54.45 | paultag | before they'd been selected |
| 20:54.49 | olly | oi you! get off my project |
| 20:54.49 | umccullough | if you show up and say: "I'm going to implement X", and then the day after they start, they commit a million lines of code and are done... |
| 20:54.53 | brlcad | we encourage it through small tasks, to help get them up to speed ... ideally attain commit status before the coding window begins |
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| 20:55.23 | olly | umccullough: um, that's not what I mean |
| 20:55.30 | gevaerts | olly: that reminds me of https://twitter.com/neil_snat/status/441281469877452800 :) |
| 20:55.32 | brlcad | umccullough: I'd keep them so freaking busy cleaning up that million lines of code |
| 20:55.37 | umccullough | heh |
| 20:55.43 | umccullough | "now write the unit tests" |
| 20:55.45 | brlcad | I can be pretty freaking pedantic |
| 20:55.54 | TCD | 'now unit test your unit tests' |
| 20:55.56 | brlcad | exactly |
| 20:55.58 | brlcad | spell check it |
| 20:56.06 | brlcad | fix spaces after commas |
| 20:56.12 | brlcad | end of line whitespace |
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| 20:56.37 | umccullough | anyhow timaa2k, you're expected to be available starting may 19 |
| 20:56.40 | brlcad | I can take a trivial 100 line patch and turn it into a week-long project |
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| 20:57.51 | brlcad | most students aren't used to dealing with our code quality requirements, strict compilation, style |
| 20:58.19 | brlcad | the time before coding is great for getting that all sorted out, lots of education |
| 20:58.34 | gevaerts | brlcad: careful. TCD is getting discouraged again! :) |
| 20:58.40 | brlcad | haha |
| 20:58.56 | timaa2k | thats what i need, indeed |
| 20:59.15 | TCD | gevaerts: I'm more than happy with code quality requirements after how dodgy some of our coursework specifications have been |
| 20:59.21 | timaa2k | the 'open' formal stuff might be the scariest thing |
| 20:59.45 | TCD | 'you must implement it this way, also you can write extensions for further marks but the way we are making you implement it means this is close to impossible' |
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| 21:01.50 | timaa2k | really? usually it's just 'make it work in time' |
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| 21:02.21 | TCD | timaa2k: It /was/ for the cs101 class and they were obviously looking to see everyone could write basic OO-code |
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| 21:11.44 | p1ne | Hi! Just wanted to know if I can apply to two projects from the same mentoring organisation? |
| 21:11.56 | umccullough | absolutely |
| 21:12.09 | umccullough | you can submit up to 5 proposals for the same or multiple orgs |
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| 21:12.57 | p1ne | Will the there be two separate proposals for the two projects even if they are from the same org? |
| 21:13.04 | umccullough | yes |
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| 21:13.11 | brlcad | p1ne: we often recommend it if we think there's competition for a particular idea |
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| 21:13.44 | umccullough | if the two projects are related, and you think you can do them as a single gsoc project, i suppose you could combine them |
| 21:13.51 | brlcad | particularly useful when the candidate is very strong |
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| 21:14.38 | umccullough | i think we've had students in the past finish their projects early and then add other stuff in to fill the remaining time ;) |
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| 21:15.32 | timaa2k | do you know of any org that utilizes go? |
| 21:15.45 | umccullough | funny you should ask |
| 21:15.48 | olly | umccullough: AFAIK, there's no requirement that projects have to consist of material that's all related |
| 21:15.59 | p1ne | Thank you, both of you :) |
| 21:16.02 | umccullough | timaa2k, one of the haiku projects doesn't "use" go per-se, but the project is porting Go to haiku :) |
| 21:16.12 | umccullough | olly, true |
| 21:16.32 | umccullough | so, if a student sees multiple tasks that they believe they can complete within the gsoc timeframe, they could propose to do them all, i suppose |
| 21:16.52 | olly | timaa2k: Xapian has an "implement Go bindings" project |
| 21:16.58 | umccullough | but one would be cautious about that, since it might be a turn off for the project |
| 21:17.03 | olly | timaa2k: did you try the tag search? |
| 21:17.15 | olly | i guess "go" might not be easy to search for as it's a dumb substring search |
| 21:17.22 | olly | "C" is rubbish |
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| 21:17.24 | gevaerts | regex, and \bgo\b |
| 21:17.32 | umccullough | olly, search for "c," |
| 21:17.42 | umccullough | or "go," |
| 21:17.43 | gevaerts | umccullough: doesn't match those that have c last |
| 21:17.44 | chok | golang |
| 21:17.55 | umccullough | gevaerts, i think melange adds a trailing , |
| 21:17.57 | p1ne | Or better even, search for ", c," :) |
| 21:17.59 | umccullough | at least, it did for me |
| 21:18.04 | gevaerts | umccullough: that must be new then! |
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| 21:18.23 | umccullough | gevaerts, yeah, i was like: "wtf, why is there an extra comma at the end", and then i thought about it more :) |
| 21:18.30 | umccullough | unless i did something wrong |
| 21:18.39 | umccullough | looks |
| 21:18.57 | gevaerts | umccullough: you don't actually need it though. This is what regular expressions are foe |
| 21:19.07 | gevaerts | sqe$qrq |
| 21:19.26 | chok | http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org2/google/gsoc2014/amahi |
| 21:19.36 | umccullough | hmm, it doesn't show the trailing comma in the grid |
| 21:19.40 | gevaerts | umccullough: \bc\b([^#+]|$) is what you want, by the way :) |
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| 21:19.47 | brlcad | umccullough: oh, that sounds interesting (porting Go) |
| 21:19.50 | olly | umccullough: that doesn't work if it's the final tag, and also finds things like "django" and "music" |
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| 21:20.00 | chok | "Webapp Browsing in Mobile apps" in go |
| 21:20.02 | umccullough | gevaerts, looks like i was wrong :P |
| 21:20.06 | chok | with SPDY |
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| 21:20.36 | olly | and some orgs didn't read the form and have just spaces |
| 21:20.55 | olly | p1ne: that misses apache, for example |
| 21:21.15 | umccullough | gevaerts, yes, i see some put c\c++ in the tags |
| 21:21.23 | umccullough | or c/c++ i mean |
| 21:21.38 | p1ne | olly: Yeah, I suppose it will miss orgs who have c at the start. |
| 21:21.50 | brlcad | datamined all of the tags a couple days ago looking for groupings |
| 21:22.03 | gevaerts | umccullough: those clearly don't know what they're talking about, so they can be safely ignored :) |
| 21:22.25 | brlcad | the visual graph was nearly fully connected save for a few "islands" of projects that didn't connect to the mass |
| 21:22.58 | gevaerts | Anyway, this is a solved problem! I'll gladly pay a $10 bounty for any incorrect match (or non-match) on the list with \bc\b([^#+]|$) |
| 21:23.24 | gevaerts | (with "regexp search" enabled, obviously) |
| 21:23.40 | umccullough | goes to make an entry that fails |
| 21:23.42 | gevaerts | brlcad: I'd be interested in seeing that! |
| 21:23.43 | TCD | gevaerts: What about the orgs with 0 tags? |
| 21:23.44 | umccullough | :P |
| 21:23.58 | TCD | oh, my regex reading skills fail me |
| 21:23.58 | umccullough | tbh, i suck at regex |
| 21:24.10 | gevaerts | TCD: they don't have any form of c in their tags, so they don't match :) |
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| 21:25.04 | brlcad | gevaerts: yeah, I was trying to come up with something interesting to share on the list .. it really was a mess, though |
| 21:25.25 | brlcad | too many unique tags .. I need to manually sort/group them into categories for it to make more sense |
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| 21:27.10 | gevaerts | TCD: by the way, I lied a bit when I said "gladly", but I will pay :) |
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| 21:53.16 | brlcad | gevaerts: heh... how about a tag of "not c" ;) |
| 21:53.37 | gevaerts | brlcad: I think I'd be the moral winner on that one :) |
| 21:54.00 | gevaerts | should have clarified that he meant the tags as they are now, but it's probably too late for that |
| 21:54.26 | brlcad | "all languages except C" |
| 21:54.39 | brlcad | chuckles |
| 21:54.48 | brlcad | "c 3 p o" |
| 21:55.07 | gevaerts | brlcad: I think it's entirely fair to assume that the tags still are expected to be helpful for students :) |
| 21:55.10 | brlcad | tis a robust regex |
| 21:55.48 | brlcad | interesting to make that portable, without the shorthand |
| 21:55.54 | gevaerts | It's really a simple one though. A standalone C, not followed by + or # |
| 21:56.20 | gevaerts | C99 would match, but that's not really a problem :) |
| 21:56.32 | brlcad | surrounded at word boundaries or end of line |
| 21:56.35 | brlcad | subtlties |
| 21:56.39 | gevaerts | Actually, I'm not sure now. Is that a word boundary? |
| 21:56.53 | brlcad | i don't think it is |
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| 21:57.07 | gevaerts | Yes, true. It's long enough ago that I don't remember those details :) |
| 21:57.18 | olly | word boundary just means word char followed by non-word char (or vice versa) |
| 21:57.55 | olly | oh, or start/end of string |
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| 22:21.04 | partp | in which format the proposals will be accepted by gsoc? |
| 22:21.15 | partp | and what would be proposal's word limit? |
| 22:22.02 | olly | partp: text or html |
| 22:22.12 | olly | as for word count, ask the org what they're after |
| 22:22.23 | olly | AFAIK, there's no global limit |
| 22:22.39 | partp | olly: thanks |
| 22:22.57 | jbisch | partp: some orgs have specific instructions, like debian wants a page on their wiki and you just link from melange to the wiki |
| 22:23.52 | umccullough | the specific proposal instructions should be provided by the org |
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| 22:24.46 | umccullough | keep in mind that the org is the one you're proposing your idea to ;) |
| 22:26.50 | partp | jbisch: umccullough: do you know about gnome? |
| 22:27.22 | partp | jbisch: umccullough: i couldn't get answer on their #soc channel |
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| 22:33.38 | umccullough | partp, sorry, i'm not affiliated with that project in any way |
| 22:33.58 | umccullough | their melange profile should provide several contact methods |
| 22:35.14 | jbisch | partp: I'm not affliated with Gnome, but see https://wiki.gnome.org/Outreach/SummerOfCode/Students |
| 22:35.33 | jbisch | looks like they want you to submit via Melange (the GSoC website) |
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| 22:36.44 | olly | note you have to actually submit something in melange or you can't be accepted |
| 22:37.17 | olly | but for debian at least, it can be just the required fields and a link to the proposal on their wiki |
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| 22:39.26 | jbisch | sorry, meant that Gnome seems to just want you to submit via melange |
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| 22:50.47 | olly | yeah, I was just clarifying - ISTR last year debian had to chase students with proposals on the wiki without anything in melange |
| 22:50.54 | MisterH | !faq |
| 22:50.54 | gsocbot | MisterH: "faq" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page |
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| 23:03.20 | partp | olly: jbisch: thanks |
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| 23:23.01 | rlyshw | rip laptop monitor :( |
| 23:23.08 | rlyshw | crunchbang killed it |
| 23:23.17 | rlyshw | or trying to install crunchbang |
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| 23:27.00 | jbisch | oh no, it's totally dead? |
| 23:27.25 | meflin | mostly dead is slightly alive |
| 23:28.27 | TCD | rip #gsoc in peace |
| 23:28.43 | rlyshw | yeah man, it wont display the bios splash screen, or even anything from the bios |
| 23:29.00 | jbisch | huh |
| 23:29.40 | meflin | go though its pockets and look for loose change |
| 23:29.49 | rlyshw | looks like if I get accepted to gsoc ill be spending some of the stipend on a new laptop. |
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| 23:32.59 | olly | "crunchbang" sounds rather too apt |
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| 23:34.01 | rlyshw | heh |
| 23:35.53 | umccullough | rlyshw, that sounds strange - is it an EFI laptop by chance? |
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| 23:36.41 | umccullough | also, does an external display work? |
| 23:36.43 | umccullough | i'm guessing no |
| 23:37.52 | jbisch | maybe the mobo went and the timing is coincidental? |
| 23:38.51 | umccullough | or, it's a samsung efi laptop and got bricked ;) |
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| 23:40.55 | umccullough | in which case, i believe samsung will probably replace it |
| 23:41.34 | rlyshw | umccullough: It's an ASUS laptop. it is not, to my knowledge(not really knowing what EFI is), an EFI laptop. |
| 23:42.09 | rlyshw | it boots up and plays the little bios splash screen jingle but just can't see a thing. I'll hook it up to an external monitor |
| 23:42.22 | jbisch | is it recent? |
| 23:42.30 | jbisch | i mean the age of the laptop |
| 23:43.01 | rlyshw | no, I think i got it in 2008 |
| 23:44.16 | umccullough | eh, 6 years isn't that old :) |
| 23:45.08 | umccullough | admittedly, i've already replaced caps on some of my motherboards from that era :P |
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| 23:47.04 | rlyshw | lol yeah. Old enough that I had to use the unsupported legacy drivers from ATI to prevent the vid card from over heating. |
| 23:47.06 | olly | my 2008 laptop is now a PVR |
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| 23:48.28 | rlyshw | which involved the hassle of reverting to an older version of Xorg |
| 23:51.53 | umccullough | so possibly the vid chip was fried |
| 23:52.04 | umccullough | fun |
| 23:53.38 | rlyshw | oh it lives! judging by the insane artifacting on the screen right now, i would think it might have something to do with the vid chip |
| 23:57.37 | umccullough | yeah |
| 23:57.48 | umccullough | might want to tear it apart and apply some new thermal compound to the heatsink or something |
| 23:57.57 | umccullough | and/or blow out any dust accumulation to increase airflow |
| 23:58.03 | umccullough | (and make sure the cooling fan isn't stuck) |
| 23:58.44 | rlyshw | yep. fun times. |
| 23:59.58 | rlyshw | maybe my next laptop purchase wont include a gpu that has the potential to get very hot. |