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| 00:38.53 | *** topic/#gsoc is Students for GSoC 2014 will be announced on 21 April at 19:00 UTC, see the program timeline: http://goo.gl/Anraxm for more info | The Google Summer of Code 2014 mentoring orgs list is at: http://goo.gl/Qx6xLC |
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| 03:53.22 | ss_ | Hello, how can I know slots been allocated to particular org |
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| 03:58.22 | olly | ss_: you can ask them |
| 03:58.27 | olly | though they don't have to tell you |
| 03:58.59 | olly | or you can wait until the 21st and count how many students they accepted... |
| 03:59.02 | ss_ | olly: can't anybody from gsoc tell me? |
| 03:59.19 | olly | ss_: no, it's up to the org if they want to make that info public |
| 03:59.33 | ss_ | ok, thanks |
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| 05:10.12 | ketil | Anybody able to see the number of allocated slots? |
| 05:10.33 | Niharika | ketil: Not open to students. |
| 05:10.58 | ketil | Eh, OK. But I am registered as a mentor. I just get an empty table. Is this a matter of privileges? |
| 05:11.35 | olly | ketil: i think it might be admin only |
| 05:11.43 | olly | for em it shows up exactly where carols said |
| 05:11.49 | olly | *for me |
| 05:12.32 | ketil | OK. It wasn't clear from the email that I wasn't supposed to know. |
| 05:12.46 | olly | i'm not sure either |
| 05:13.32 | ketil | I'll contact my admin, then. Thanks! |
| 05:13.35 | olly | but it's in the org profile, which I think is an admin-only thing |
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| 05:15.53 | ketil | I see now that Carol cited some text (which I didn't read too carefully :-) that says step three is org admin only. Strange UI choice to display an empty table, but whatever. Thanks for clearing it up. |
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| 05:17.10 | croozeus | !logs |
| 05:17.12 | gsocbot | croozeus: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
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| 06:53.22 | rajul | morning!! |
| 06:57.04 | stqism | Hello |
| 06:57.47 | rajul | stqism: hi.... |
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| 08:04.03 | dufferzafar | When will the slot allocations be published? |
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| 08:05.32 | gevaerts | They have been |
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| 10:46.23 | samgtr | anyone active here? |
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| 10:48.45 | AI0867 | possibly |
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| 10:50.07 | samgtr | are the slot allocations already published to the mentoring organizations? |
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| 10:51.35 | AI0867 | possibly to the admins, but I can't see it |
| 10:52.47 | samgtr | on the melange site, it says 9th April, so i was wondering |
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| 10:54.07 | PulkoMandy | seems only the org admin can see them |
| 10:54.24 | samgtr | so its out? PulkoMandy |
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| 10:54.33 | PulkoMandy | I don't know, I'm not admin :) |
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| 10:55.09 | lenin | are slots allocated to mentoring organizations |
| 10:55.45 | olly | yes, they have been |
| 10:56.03 | olly | and no, they aren't public |
| 10:56.15 | olly | you can ask the org, but they don't have to tell you |
| 10:56.18 | samgtr | thanks olly |
| 10:56.27 | lenin | okay thanks |
| 10:57.40 | lenin | don't they put the slot allocation results on their blog or something, no blog have came with that yet? |
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| 11:09.32 | olly | google don't blog a list, but individual orgs are free to announce how many they got (or to keep it secret) |
| 11:10.19 | somaen | Besides, the dedup-meeting hasn't been yet, which might affect the results. |
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| 11:10.29 | darnir | Yes.. And not just students, a bunch of mentors too are trying to find out the slot allocations yet |
| 11:10.40 | darnir | Because Google thought it'd be a good idea to let only the admins know |
| 11:13.23 | ashmew2 | is there a minimum number of slots that will be assigned to an org? |
| 11:13.30 | darnir | 1 |
| 11:13.41 | ashmew2 | Thanks |
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| 11:14.29 | olly | i think an org is allowed to ask for no slots, but unless they do they will get at least 1 |
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| 11:19.40 | ktktkt | Are no of slots provided to each org public ? |
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| 11:20.18 | darnir | We need a factoid for this.. |
| 11:20.22 | darnir | !slots |
| 11:20.22 | gsocbot | darnir: "slots" is (#1) Slot allocation is done manually by Chris DiBona and Carol Smith, be a good org, play nice on the mentor list and #gsoc, ask for a non-crazy-high number of slots, and you'll probably get what you ask. Note that non-crazy-high for new orgs is around 1 or 2., or (#2) http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/studentallocations |
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| 11:21.41 | darnir | Nah, someone has to create one. But the answer to ktktkt is no. It's not public. |
| 11:22.08 | gevaerts | darnir: why don't you? :) |
| 11:23.07 | olly | i think there may be a factoid already |
| 11:23.50 | darnir | gevaerts: Because there are others like olly, you and kblin who know more about factoids and one might already exist |
| 11:24.05 | darnir | And then I'd just be bloating the factoid list |
| 11:25.14 | olly | i can't seem to see one, FWIW |
| 11:25.17 | olly | maybe it got pruned |
| 11:25.33 | olly | duplicates aren't a big issue really |
| 11:26.07 | olly | less of a problem that people teaching the bot lots of "funny" factoids so it's much harder to find the useful ones |
| 11:26.24 | gevaerts | !this cookie | olly |
| 11:26.24 | gsocbot | olly: "this cookie" is for you |
| 11:26.43 | darnir | !learn slots "The number of slots allocated to each organization aren't public. They may however at their discretion reveal this to you if you ask nicely." |
| 11:26.43 | gsocbot | darnir: (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value. |
| 11:26.53 | olly | *as* |
| 11:26.59 | darnir | Yes I realised |
| 11:27.01 | olly | and no "" |
| 11:27.05 | darnir | Aah |
| 11:27.13 | olly | or else they'll be in the factoid |
| 11:27.21 | darnir | !learn slots as The number of slots allocated to each organization aren't public. They may however at their discretion reveal this to you if you ask nicely. |
| 11:27.21 | gsocbot | darnir: "slots" is (#1) Slot allocation is done manually by Chris DiBona and Carol Smith, be a good org, play nice on the mentor list and #gsoc, ask for a non-crazy-high number of slots, and you'll probably get what you ask. Note that non-crazy-high for new orgs is around 1 or 2., or (#2) http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/studentallocations, or (#3) (1 more message) |
| 11:27.39 | olly | i'd suggest a new factoid for that |
| 11:27.42 | darnir | Okay, it still got pruned. |
| 11:27.42 | gevaerts | nods |
| 11:27.50 | olly | !forget slots 3 |
| 11:27.50 | gsocbot | olly: "slots" is (#1) Slot allocation is done manually by Chris DiBona and Carol Smith, be a good org, play nice on the mentor list and #gsoc, ask for a non-crazy-high number of slots, and you'll probably get what you ask. Note that non-crazy-high for new orgs is around 1 or 2., or (#2) http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/studentallocations |
| 11:28.02 | gevaerts | I think the ones already there should be kept, so yes, a new factoid is better |
| 11:28.11 | darnir | agrees |
| 11:28.21 | darnir | What should it be called? I hate naming things |
| 11:28.46 | darnir | !allocations |
| 11:29.13 | darnir | !learn allocations The number of slots allocated to each organization aren't public. They may however at their discretion reveal this to you if you ask nicely. |
| 11:29.13 | gsocbot | darnir: (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value. |
| 11:29.19 | darnir | Pssh! |
| 11:29.30 | darnir | !learn allocations as The number of slots allocated to each organization aren't public. They may however at their discretion reveal this to you if you ask nicely. |
| 11:29.30 | gsocbot | darnir: "allocations" is The number of slots allocated to each organization aren't public. They may however at their discretion reveal this to you if you ask nicely. |
| 11:29.35 | gevaerts | darnir: numbers or isn't :) |
| 11:29.58 | gevaerts | also is confused about "They". The numbers or the orgs? :) |
| 11:30.00 | AI0867 | !allocations |
| 11:30.00 | gsocbot | AI0867: "allocations" is The number of slots allocated to each organization aren't public. They may however at their discretion reveal this to you if you ask nicely. |
| 11:30.21 | darnir | Well, the numbers don't speak, but sure. I'll fix it |
| 11:31.17 | darnir | !learn allocations as The number of slots allocated to each organization isn't public. The organization may however at their discretion reveal this to you if you ask nicely. |
| 11:31.17 | gsocbot | darnir: "allocations" is (#1) The number of slots allocated to each organization aren't public. They may however at their discretion reveal this to you if you ask nicely., or (#2) The number of slots allocated to each organization isn't public. The organization may however at their discretion reveal this to you if you ask nicely. |
| 11:31.23 | darnir | !forget allocations 1 |
| 11:31.23 | gsocbot | darnir: "allocations" is The number of slots allocated to each organization isn't public. The organization may however at their discretion reveal this to you if you ask nicely. |
| 11:31.45 | gevaerts | Yay! |
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| 11:32.26 | darnir | I'm however surprised at the number of slots we were allocated. I honestly expected more |
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| 12:03.51 | isa | help |
| 12:04.24 | isa | !allocations |
| 12:04.25 | gsocbot | isa: "allocations" is The number of slots allocated to each organization isn't public. The organization may however at their discretion reveal this to you if you ask nicely. |
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| 12:04.59 | kishorm23_ | allocations |
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| 12:07.35 | Tahir | How many slots will be allocated per org? minimum and maximum? |
| 12:08.14 | olly | at least 1 if they want it; no particular upper limit |
| 12:08.22 | olly | but not more than they ask for |
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| 12:11.54 | Tahir | is there any relation between numbers of slot and numbers of proposal? or it totally depend on org requirement upon propasal quailty |
| 12:11.56 | Tahir | ? |
| 12:12.52 | olly | !slots | Tahir |
| 12:12.52 | gsocbot | Tahir: "slots" is (#1) Slot allocation is done manually by Chris DiBona and Carol Smith, be a good org, play nice on the mentor list and #gsoc, ask for a non-crazy-high number of slots, and you'll probably get what you ask. Note that non-crazy-high for new orgs is around 1 or 2., or (#2) http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/studentallocations |
| 12:13.27 | olly | rvraghav93: don't PM people out of the blue |
| 12:13.30 | olly | use the channel |
| 12:14.03 | rvraghav93 | olly: Sorry ! is it possible to know the no of slots Python Software Foundation is allocated ? |
| 12:14.13 | olly | rvraghav93: ask them |
| 12:14.25 | rvraghav93 | olly: ok |
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| 12:15.53 | Tahir | Thanks gsocbot |
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| 12:40.09 | kblin | my guess is that PSF has between 0 and 1500 slots |
| 12:40.40 | gevaerts | That's daringly precise! |
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| 12:40.56 | olly | kblin: i can confirm that |
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| 12:41.26 | olly | (someone told me, but I'm not sure if it's public info or not) |
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| 12:43.37 | darnir | I'm pretty sure PSF has atleast one slot. So I'd wager they have between 1 and 1500 |
| 12:43.54 | kblin | or maybe 100±1400 slots |
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| 12:44.26 | kblin | darnir: I guess they have applied, so I take darnir is correct |
| 12:44.45 | gevaerts | decides to stick his neck out |
| 12:44.51 | gevaerts | They have an integer number of slots |
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| 12:45.31 | kblin | probably a number of slots that can be displayed with a uint16_t even |
| 12:46.34 | olly | remembers when there used to be a mail to the mentors list with all the slot allocations in |
| 12:47.19 | kblin | did we still have that in 2008? I don't remember anything like that :) |
| 12:47.37 | kblin | pre-2008, I was doing GSoC on the other side of the fence |
| 12:47.39 | olly | i think 2008 was my first |
| 12:48.07 | kblin | the side of the fence where you had to do more work to get your tshirt |
| 12:49.23 | darnir | :D |
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| 12:49.38 | darnir | Co-mentors don't get a Tshirt do they/ |
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| 12:49.41 | darnir | ? |
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| 12:51.15 | kblin | I think everybody signed up as a mentor gets a t-shirt |
| 12:51.24 | kblin | so if you're in melange, you'll get a t-shirt |
| 12:51.35 | olly | unless you said you didn't want one |
| 12:51.37 | darnir | Hmm, interesting. Even if you're not really mentoring? |
| 12:51.51 | olly | i think the logic is you likely spent time reviewing proposals |
| 12:52.04 | darnir | Because we didn't get enough slots, so not everyone who registered will mentor |
| 12:52.21 | olly | they'll probably still help the students though |
| 12:52.29 | darnir | Aah.. Well, we'll know in a few months. |
| 12:52.32 | kblin | yeah, those people are fine, t-shirt wise |
| 12:52.49 | darnir | Oh yes, for example, I'll probably not be mentoring, but I'll co-mentor the project |
| 12:52.51 | kblin | I mean I've gotten a t-shirt every year so far |
| 12:53.14 | kblin | but then I was admin for 2+ projects |
| 12:53.21 | darnir | Might as well have just applied as a student. |
| 12:53.40 | kblin | this year is the first year I couldn't do that anymore |
| 12:53.54 | kblin | I still wonder if I should fell all grown-up or just old |
| 12:53.57 | darnir | Well, being admin for 2 orgs cannot be easy |
| 12:54.11 | kblin | ah, they're small orgs |
| 12:54.25 | kblin | probably harder to be org admin for a single large org |
| 12:54.36 | darnir | Yeah, probably. |
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| 12:54.55 | kblin | I've got to heard about a dozen mentors |
| 12:54.58 | darnir | Especially ones like PSF or Apache |
| 12:55.29 | darnir | kblin: That's a decently sized org! |
| 12:55.46 | kblin | over the two orgs I admin :) |
| 12:56.04 | darnir | Aah! That's better |
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| 12:56.36 | kblin | pretty much my only gripe is that melange is still a bit clumsy to use if you're in more than one org |
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| 12:57.02 | darnir | Haven't the faintest idea about that |
| 12:57.42 | olly | it lists all the propsals in one list |
| 12:57.51 | olly | and forget the org filter each time you reload |
| 12:58.07 | darnir | That's annoying |
| 12:58.10 | olly | and the bug i filed for that recently got closed without being fixed |
| 12:58.26 | olly | if i was involved in more than one org, I'd be irritated about that |
| 12:58.47 | olly | i can't think why I'd ever want to see proposals for multiple orgs at once |
| 12:59.05 | olly | a drop down for the org and a list for that org would make more sense |
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| 13:02.20 | darnir | The melange site seems pretty hackish to me.. |
| 13:02.42 | olly | it's much better than it used to be |
| 13:02.46 | bkuhn | darnir: I believe it's Free Software. I bet patches are welcome. |
| 13:02.53 | olly | but there are still some annoying rough edges |
| 13:03.09 | darnir | bkuhn: If only I was any good at web development |
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| 13:03.31 | olly | bkuhn: with a CLA though |
| 13:03.52 | darnir | olly: There's a CLA you have you sign for contributing to melange!? |
| 13:03.55 | bkuhn | olly: hrm, unfortunate. I'll bring it up with carols at some point. |
| 13:04.05 | bkuhn | And Danny, for that matter. |
| 13:04.07 | darnir | That's not nice. |
| 13:04.10 | olly | darnir: http://code.google.com/p/soc/wiki/ContributorLicenseAgreements |
| 13:04.45 | olly | i've not actually looked at it though (neither python nor web stuff are really my strengths) |
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| 13:08.19 | darnir | I don't think this CLA is as bad as the one Canonical makes you sign |
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| 13:08.47 | olly | it doesn't seem to require (C) assignment at least |
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| 13:09.38 | darnir | It does, "Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, You hereby grant to Google and to recipients of software distributed by Google a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute Your Contributions and such derivative works." |
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| 13:09.58 | gevaerts | darnir: that's not copyright assignment |
| 13:10.01 | olly | that's a licence, not assigemtn of the (C) |
| 13:10.14 | darnir | True.. yes. It's not assignment. |
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| 13:10.28 | gevaerts | And at least it now has a clause about third-party code, which wasn't there a few years ago :) |
| 13:10.30 | darnir | GNU has that requirement. Copyright assignment |
| 13:10.53 | olly | GNU is a non-profit with certain defined goals though |
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| 13:11.31 | darnir | Wait, upon reading this CLA, it doesn't look bad at all. I'mno lawyer, but this seems reasonable enough to me |
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| 13:11.39 | teepee_ | darnir: but assignment does not work in all legislations, how's that handled then? |
| 13:11.40 | olly | that's rather different to a for profit company |
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| 13:15.17 | darnir | Yes and the assignment agreement also has a clause that explicitly states that all your contributions will always be free |
| 13:15.36 | darnir | free as in freedom that is. |
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| 13:16.04 | darnir | teepee_: I'm not sure. You could ask the guys on #fsf about it. It works where I reside, so it was fine. |
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| 13:18.04 | teepee_ | darnir: i think that's a big can of worms, so I guess I'll leave it closed for now |
| 13:18.13 | darnir | :D |
| 13:18.24 | darnir | IP laws are insanely crazy. |
| 13:18.34 | darnir | I know a little bit about them, not much. |
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| 13:21.21 | teepee_ | the copyright part in germany (and more european countries i think) is quite simple in that respect. you just can give copyright away so even the simple US "public domain" is impossible |
| 13:22.31 | PulkoMandy | well in France it ends up being not that simple. You can't do this, but if you work in a company, the company gets the copyright, unless you're only an intern |
| 13:24.06 | kblin | PulkoMandy: sure, same in germany for the code that I write as part of my job, if writing code is indeed part of my job |
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| 13:26.52 | AI0867 | teepee_: do you mean "can't"? |
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| 13:35.20 | kblin | ooooh, a new docker release.... |
| 13:35.44 | kblin | that went under in yesterdays "let's replace all our SSL certs" pary |
| 13:35.48 | kblin | *party |
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| 13:37.05 | teepee_ | AI0867: it's not possible by law. if you create something, you own the copyright, you can't give that away |
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| 13:38.11 | kblin | unless you do it on company time, then it's the company that created the thing :) |
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| 13:44.39 | AI0867 | teepee_: yes, I know that there are countries whose copyright works that way, but that's not what you said |
| 13:44.49 | AI0867 | to quote you: "you just can give copyright away" |
| 13:45.19 | teepee_ | AI0867: oh, right. yes. typo :) |
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| 13:46.14 | ktktkt | is there a way to see all the proposals students applied to different orgs |
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| 13:46.23 | kblin | nope |
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| 13:46.49 | kblin | you will be able to see the accepted proposals after they've been accepted |
| 13:46.59 | kblin | also not the complete proposals, iirc |
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| 13:47.11 | ktktkt | can we get the count |
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| 13:56.53 | somaen | IIRC, what other orgs a specific student may have applied to should not be part of what you consider when reviewing the proposal |
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| 13:57.33 | somaen | From the documentation, I seem to remember that you WILL see if you have a duplication conflict with some org, but that's about it. |
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| 17:05.01 | chro | hi |
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| 17:05.30 | chro | it it too bad if I get accepted for a a GsoC project and then I have to quit ? |
| 17:05.42 | somaen | Do you plan on doing so? |
| 17:05.52 | chro | I do not know |
| 17:06.04 | chro | because I also applied for a summer intern position |
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| 17:06.07 | somaen | Do you expect this as a real possibility? |
| 17:06.16 | chro | but I do not know if I will get accepted for the intern position |
| 17:06.25 | somaen | Did you mention this in your GSoC application? |
| 17:06.37 | chro | usually the probability of getting accepted for internship is low |
| 17:06.44 | chro | no I did not mention that |
| 17:06.50 | somaen | then you should |
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| 17:07.12 | chro | because it's a remote chance |
| 17:07.13 | somaen | or at the very least discuss this with the relevant mentors/organization. |
| 17:07.51 | chro | should I discuss it now, or only when I get accepted? |
| 17:07.53 | somaen | If you get accepted for a GSoC project, you might be taking a spot that someone else would have gotten instead. |
| 17:08.07 | chro | but if I stay quiet I can receive the initial stipend from GSoC |
| 17:08.11 | chro | around 500 USD |
| 17:08.13 | somaen | And after acceptance, there is no way to rollback that and put another student in your position. |
| 17:08.22 | somaen | This is starting to sound like fraud. |
| 17:08.36 | chro | it's not fraud |
| 17:08.56 | chro | I need to do something for the summer and apply for many things at the same time |
| 17:09.03 | chro | I applied for GSoC last year and I wasn't accepted |
| 17:09.11 | somaen | Purposefully keeping quiet about other commitments that will make you unable to perform the task you said you would, so that you can gain parts of the money? |
| 17:09.15 | chro | I can't put all the eggs in the same basket |
| 17:09.19 | KolibriOS|yogev | chro: It is fine to apply to many things at once. It's not fine to get $500 for nothing and then quit. |
| 17:09.24 | teepee | what's the problem then, if you get accepted, do it and leave the others |
| 17:09.50 | somaen | You aren't putting your eggs in one basket anyhow by applying for more stuff. |
| 17:09.51 | chro | KolibriOS|yogev, for nothing, I did a very extensive proposal |
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| 17:10.24 | somaen | But saying that you'd quit GSoC if something else comes up, that is something that should be made clear with the relevant mentors/orgs. |
| 17:11.06 | KolibriOS|yogev | chro: So you are saying that every GSoC applicant should already get $500 for just submitting a proposal, regardless of whether he/she is accepted? |
| 17:11.13 | somaen | Works the same as with other jobs really, if you take on job X at company Y, intending to jump ship for job Z whenever it pops up, then company Y should know that. |
| 17:11.15 | chro | somaen, but I think I will have a reply from the internships, before the accepted student list of GSoC comes out |
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| 17:11.33 | somaen | HOW much earlier? |
| 17:11.54 | somaen | Because, there are deadlines for accepting students, and no way back afterwards. |
| 17:11.56 | chro | maybe this week, or the next one |
| 17:12.21 | somaen | Well, no way back to selecting another student atleast. |
| 17:12.31 | somaen | Then make that clear to the relevant org. |
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| 17:12.56 | somaen | As they'd have to plan for that scenario possibly. |
| 17:13.28 | somaen | I wouldn't find it at all acceptable to keep silent about it, then vanish after getting the $500. |
| 17:13.34 | KolibriOS|yogev | chro: The orgs have to finalize the selected students by April 18th. So if you drop before then, it's fine. |
| 17:13.51 | KolibriOS|yogev | chro: But if you are selected and drop after April 18th, it's not nice. |
| 17:13.59 | chro | KolibriOS|yogev, thanks, that's an important information |
| 17:14.17 | teepee | no, 18th is not fine |
| 17:14.19 | chro | I think I will have an answer before Apr 18th |
| 17:14.42 | somaen | That doesn't mean that the orgs you applied to have time to reevaluate that late. |
| 17:14.56 | RichieB | !allocation |
| 17:15.34 | chro | but I can try to finish GSoC in 1 and a half months |
| 17:15.39 | somaen | no |
| 17:15.46 | somaen | Well, you can try. |
| 17:15.48 | chro | if it si OK with my mentor |
| 17:15.49 | KolibriOS|yogev | teepee: Why not? That's what I see on the timeline. It's not a good idea, but till 18th you can still select another student if a selected one drops. |
| 17:15.56 | somaen | But your workload is supposed to be work for 12 weeks |
| 17:16.17 | somaen | so, that'd be 12-16 hour days to complete it in half the time. |
| 17:16.20 | teepee | KolibriOS|yogev: a) timezones b) that's too much last minute to reorganize without warning |
| 17:16.55 | somaen | I would still say that you should let them know, and be honest about it. |
| 17:17.05 | KolibriOS|yogev | teepee: I agree it's borderline but technically it's possible to drop till April 18th 07:00 UTC and get another student instead. |
| 17:17.18 | somaen | Then they can plan for the scenario. |
| 17:17.35 | chro | somaen, I was afraid that saying that kind of things to my mentor he would ditch me out |
| 17:17.38 | somaen | The downside being of course that it might affect how they evaluate you. |
| 17:17.39 | chro | and I don't want that |
| 17:17.49 | KolibriOS|yogev | teepee: Don't think I am supporting chro, I just pointed out that before 18th the org could still take another student. |
| 17:17.56 | PlkMndy | KolibriOS|yogev: it makes it difficult for the org to release the slot for another org to get it, for example |
| 17:18.04 | chro | because the odds for getting accepted in7 internship are lower |
| 17:18.26 | somaen | chro: I'm sort of wondering what your goal is here. You're considering the scenario of dropping out yourself, but is also worried about the mentor dropping you? |
| 17:18.35 | teepee | KolibriOS|yogev: and I still disagree that the 18th is an acceptable date for that |
| 17:18.48 | somaen | I think your priorities need to be clear. |
| 17:18.59 | chro | somaen, I just want to guarantee that I will have something to work on during summer |
| 17:19.15 | chro | my priority is the internship, GSoC is my fallback plan |
| 17:19.17 | somaen | If the internship is what you're really wanting, and GSoC is your fallback, then it's unfair to the org to not let them know. |
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| 17:19.27 | KolibriOS|yogev | teepee: I would prefer my selected students to inform me of dropping on April 18th rather than April 19th or later. |
| 17:19.34 | somaen | Since they'll be the one's carrying the risk then. |
| 17:19.42 | KolibriOS|yogev | teepee: Of course, the sooner is always the better. |
| 17:19.59 | teepee | KolibriOS|yogev: true but suggesting that as deadline is not a good idea in my view |
| 17:20.16 | chro | I think I will be able to inform my org before Apr 15th |
| 17:20.47 | KolibriOS|yogev | teepee: I am sorry if that sounded like I suggested that to chro. I really didn't. I just pointed out that April 18th 7:00 UTC is *absolutely* the last minute the org can replace a student, so do *NOT* inform them later. |
| 17:21.15 | teepee | KolibriOS|yogev: right, but that somehow defines it as deadline automatically |
| 17:21.20 | chro | I know KolibriOS|yogev |
| 17:22.11 | somaen | Dedup is April 15th. |
| 17:22.36 | teepee | to be honest, having GSoC as fallback does not look nice from the mentor perspective |
| 17:22.49 | somaen | And 18th is the mentor allocation deadline, as well as the dedup-meeting |
| 17:23.01 | chro | teepee, that's why I didn't mention it |
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| 17:23.26 | teepee | chro: if I'd be the mentor I'd be even more angry hearing it later |
| 17:23.37 | somaen | It doesn't really reflect well on you if you drop out either way. |
| 17:23.42 | teepee | as that would even waste more mentor time |
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| 17:23.46 | somaen | Unless it was clear from the start. |
| 17:23.55 | chro | I know, my mentor will be very angry, especially because he helped me a lot |
| 17:24.09 | meflin | the longer you wait the worse its going to be |
| 17:24.19 | teepee | and he probably did that in his free time for no money at all |
| 17:24.23 | meflin | and keep in mind you just went public |
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| 17:24.46 | joshwambua | just went public in a logged channel |
| 17:24.52 | somaen | Well, yeah, your mentors might be here. |
| 17:25.17 | chro | teepee, but I will complete the issues, even outside GSoC, for the time he spent with me |
| 17:25.21 | meflin | I would go talk to your mentor ASAP |
| 17:25.22 | somaen | Honesty is rather important in applications. |
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| 17:25.52 | chro | meflin, imagine if I am not accepted for internship, he do not need to know anything |
| 17:25.59 | chro | why to create stress on him now |
| 17:26.03 | meflin | your wrong |
| 17:26.03 | chro | it's a remote chance |
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| 17:27.10 | chro | somaen, but I was honest.. They contacted me for interview after I had submitted my proposal to GSoC |
| 17:27.12 | somaen | It's still a risk you're making him/her take. |
| 17:27.46 | somaen | chro: But your proposal doesn't cover the status quo anymore though? |
| 17:27.51 | chro | I also took much time last year making proposals that were not accepted, and I did not receive any money for them |
| 17:28.03 | chro | so I think it is the same situation with mentors |
| 17:28.18 | meflin | no its not |
| 17:28.25 | teepee | indeed |
| 17:28.35 | teepee | chro: short story: it's not a job |
| 17:28.38 | somaen | Mentor's work for free. |
| 17:28.40 | chro | mentors guide students on making proposals, but it does not mean that they will be accepted |
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| 17:28.57 | meflin | the issue is that you are being dishonest |
| 17:28.59 | dirkhh | as org admin, when / where can I find the slot allocations? |
| 17:29.18 | meflin | dirkhh: you org profile its on the top right |
| 17:29.33 | dirkhh | thanks! |
| 17:29.44 | chro | I insist, I was not dishonest |
| 17:30.00 | somaen | Or, well, I guess some Mentors might be getting some pay, if they are hired by the FOSS org in the first place, and the org allows them to mentor on company time, but that's unrelated. |
| 17:30.07 | meflin | you just told us you are being dishonest you hiding this from your org |
| 17:30.11 | chro | I simply haven't talked with my mentor after I submitted the proposal |
| 17:30.15 | somaen | chro: You were not, but the proposal is not honest NOW. |
| 17:30.31 | meflin | I've had lots of students apply for multiples its not a problem if I Know whats up |
| 17:30.52 | meflin | it is a problem when I get surprised |
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| 17:31.19 | somaen | Overall, everybody wins IF the org knows that this is the case. |
| 17:31.30 | chro | right, but I haven't told him now because I am afraid that he discards me from the project and I end up with empty hands |
| 17:31.33 | somaen | Especially if they'd known as soon as it was a possibility. |
| 17:31.48 | somaen | then it'd reflect on you as being honest and clear in your intentions. |
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| 17:32.25 | somaen | Well, to be fair, why should he/she have to risk with empty hands? |
| 17:32.38 | meflin | you are over thinking things, students often have other opportunities |
| 17:34.05 | somaen | But yeah, you're talking about not telling your org, in a public and logged channel. |
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| 17:34.42 | somaen | if I were the org, I'd rather find out from you directly, than from reading the scrollback-history of #gsoc. |
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| 17:35.28 | meflin | if I found out via scroll back I would be _most_ unhappy :) |
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| 17:35.58 | somaen | Then again, I do not know which org this is, and I can't say for sure that any relevant party is here, or not. |
| 17:36.17 | chro | yes, but it is not my goal to remain hidden. I want to tell the org |
| 17:36.30 | meflin | so go tell them |
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| 17:36.34 | somaen | Now |
| 17:37.05 | meflin | its not that hard ... "I have this great opportunity but I'm not sure if I will get it." |
| 17:37.13 | chro | right, I will talk to my mentor |
| 17:37.37 | meflin | it happens all the time .. and you mentor has been in the same kind of place most likely |
| 17:37.40 | chro | true I will tell him that the odds of being accepted are low |
| 17:37.53 | somaen | it's better than coming along next week with "I got this other opportunity, so I won't be doing GSoC" out of the blue. |
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| 17:38.37 | somaen | This way, they can consider a replacement in good time, instead of having to jump around to fix things at an extremely late point in time. |
| 17:38.47 | somaen | Keeps everybody happy. |
| 17:38.48 | droy | hi |
| 17:38.53 | somaen | hi |
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| 17:39.26 | droy | did any one had an experience of having a unresponding mentor |
| 17:39.54 | meflin | mentors might be bussy right now with student selection |
| 17:40.05 | meflin | how long has it been? |
| 17:40.59 | droy | 4 days |
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| 17:41.26 | meflin | might try again ... also try the rest of the org |
| 17:41.37 | droy | i asked my mentor to make my proposal editable |
| 17:41.46 | droy | no response |
| 17:42.12 | droy | i even mailed the content which i would like to add on my proposal |
| 17:42.24 | meflin | why not use the comments? |
| 17:42.46 | droy | i commented on my proposal too |
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| 17:43.15 | droy | but i didnt get any comment in reply |
| 17:43.15 | meflin | then they can see the info |
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| 17:44.59 | droy | ok |
| 17:45.05 | meflin | droy: you can email them again .. but they may also be very bussy |
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| 17:45.16 | meflin | I have a 100 apps to review myself |
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| 17:45.37 | teepee | isn't there something like a 48h response required? |
| 17:45.49 | droy | ok |
| 17:45.56 | meflin | not at this time no |
| 17:46.10 | teepee | where does it apply? |
| 17:46.34 | meflin | before the student app deadline |
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| 17:46.43 | droy | but im afraid to mail them again and again if they get angry or so or get irritated by repeated mails |
| 17:46.44 | teepee | ahh, ok |
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| 17:47.10 | meflin | untill student selection we are spending our time figuring out other things |
| 17:48.08 | meflin | droy: if you put the extra info in the coments when they review you app they will see it |
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| 17:49.25 | kremlin- | its too bad openssl isn't mentoring this year |
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| 17:49.27 | carldani | Hi! |
| 17:49.56 | meflin | mmm tea |
| 17:49.59 | meflin | shares |
| 17:50.25 | carldani | I'm a mentor for coreboot (and I have the rights to score proposals), but "My organizations" in my dashboard is empty. |
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| 17:50.57 | meflin | see proposals |
| 17:51.14 | meflin | my org is deprecated and its a bug that its still there |
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| 17:51.21 | carldani | ah! |
| 17:51.30 | meflin | and yes that is a bit confusing ;) |
| 17:51.47 | carldani | our admins are asleep right now and I wanted to check the number of slots we got. |
| 17:52.17 | meflin | the slot count only shows for admins |
| 17:52.30 | meflin | AFAIK |
| 17:53.49 | meflin | if you can see it it will be under managed orgs top right |
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| 17:54.28 | teepee | no managed orgs for non-admin :) |
| 17:54.35 | carldani | thanks meflin |
| 17:54.37 | carldani | thanks teepee |
| 17:54.53 | teepee | at least i can't see it anywhere :) |
| 17:55.04 | meflin | that's what I thought but as admin ;) I can't see what non-admins see ;) |
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| 17:55.16 | teepee | we got the info from the admin via the org mentor mailing list |
| 17:55.30 | meflin | good news for your org? |
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| 17:55.55 | teepee | we are new sub-org so we are ok |
| 17:56.14 | KolibriOS|yogev | meflin: Define "good news" please :-) |
| 17:56.45 | meflin | well lets say you ask for 3-10 and you get 3 that is less good then 9 :) |
| 17:57.14 | teepee | i guess good news is when you get at least as much slots as you have really desireable proposals |
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| 17:57.25 | meflin | yes that is good news |
| 17:57.33 | teepee | which will probably not happen for the larger/well-known orgs |
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| 18:05.17 | RichieB | has used irc before but didn't really get involved until gsoc2014 |
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| 18:05.37 | RichieB | didn't know he could hear such interesting things on public channels |
| 18:05.56 | gevaerts | RichieB: you can waste a lot of time on irc :) |
| 18:06.07 | RichieB | :) |
| 18:06.49 | meflin | just think of how many LOC's we loose thanks to irc ;) |
| 18:07.12 | gevaerts | None at all! |
| 18:07.27 | gevaerts | We just get lines of chat instead of lines of code, but you weren't specific! |
| 18:07.29 | meflin | probably I would just find another way to waste time :D |
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| 18:23.53 | KolibriOS|yogev | I was using IRC a lot between 1996-1999, before all those Skype/MSN Messenger/... appeared or became mass. Then never used it again till 2013 when we applied as an org for GSoC 2013. I feel so back in time now :-) |
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| 20:04.56 | GSoCer | Hi, Can we ask for result before 21? I need to know urgently. I have got a offer from a company X. I will take that only if I am not selected in GSoC. I need to tell them my response urgently! |
| 20:05.38 | KolibriOS|yogev | GSoCer: No, it's forbidden to tell the results before April 21st |
| 20:07.09 | GSoCer | KolibriOS|yogev: ok thanks! |
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| 20:10.52 | PlkMndy | GSoCer: ask the orgs you applied for, in such conditions they can maybe give infos |
| 20:11.08 | PlkMndy | not final and official results, however |
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| 20:11.55 | GSoCer | How is that different from result by google? I thought org are the ones who select final students! |
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| 20:15.24 | perepujal | Google doesn't allow orgs to reveal acceptance until 21 |
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| 20:16.00 | PlkMndy | GSoCer: in the current state, orgs know how much students they can pick |
| 20:16.14 | meflin | its not that simple |
| 20:16.23 | PlkMndy | there may still be changes, they may decide to take one less student at the last minute, give away a slot to another org |
| 20:16.25 | meflin | 21's is when students will know |
| 20:16.45 | PlkMndy | or there may be students accepted in two orgs, so they have to decide who keeps him |
| 20:16.53 | PlkMndy | so, things are not completely decided yet |
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| 20:17.12 | meflin | and they wont be completely decided untill the emails go out |
| 20:17.48 | GSoCer | I think I will talk to my org about this! Probably they can help! Thanks guys :) |
| 20:18.30 | meflin | you should talk to them but keep in mind they cannot tell you about acceptance |
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| 20:29.53 | zhdanov_ | goes to bed and hopes to get joyful news tomorrow |
| 20:30.25 | GSoCer | tomorrow or on 21st? :D |
| 20:30.27 | banas | I'm not able to push to GitHub, anyone else face same problem? |
| 20:32.33 | zhdanov_ | GSoCer: I hope to get some preliminary information from my project mentor :) |
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| 20:32.51 | meflin | you wont get acceptance info |
| 20:33.11 | blast007 | banas: https://status.github.com/ |
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| 20:34.42 | banas | no wonder, thanks blast007 |
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| 20:39.42 | gsocks | Hello guys |
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| 20:40.14 | gsocks | Can I ask something not exactly related to GSoC but more to open source |
| 20:41.24 | diadara | opensourced: don't ask to ask someone will answer |
| 20:41.36 | opensourced | Well, ok |
| 20:41.50 | banas | gsocks sure, you ask and then we'll answer if we can :D |
| 20:42.24 | olly | wonders what the github "page builds failure rate" being over 500% means |
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| 20:44.04 | opensourced | Few days ago I tried to contribute to an organisation by submitting bug patches. But I find it very difficult to fix bugs other than one liners. I find it to very difficult to understand their codebase. Even I used advance tools like IDE, I was not able to fix even a single medium size bug. |
| 20:44.54 | opensourced | I have earlier worked on small project only. And the project was quite large or maybe medium sized. What should I do now? |
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| 20:45.48 | meflin | you should consult with the org |
| 20:46.27 | meflin | some code bases are very hard to understand and if they want new contributors they might help you out |
| 20:46.32 | somaen | This is common, figuring out a large code base isn't something that is done in an instant. |
| 20:47.00 | somaen | Even when they're well documented, it takes some work to understand what the various parts do. |
| 20:47.27 | olly | there's a definite art to being able to find the place you need to make a change |
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| 20:47.39 | olly | so don't be disspirited |
| 20:47.44 | opensourced | Yes, I have tried more than one organisation. but failed everytime |
| 20:48.24 | opensourced | This saturday I just spent the whole day with 0 medium size bug |
| 20:48.47 | somaen | Start with the smaller stuff |
| 20:48.53 | somaen | and work your way up |
| 20:49.00 | olly | has spent a week on a one line fix before |
| 20:49.18 | olly | most of the time was spent finding that one line... |
| 20:49.59 | opensourced | Ok, One very important thing. Does this happen with very few person or a majority face similar situation |
| 20:50.19 | opensourced | esp. the others who applied for GSoC? Are they face similar problems |
| 20:50.23 | olly | i think it's like that for everyone |
| 20:50.35 | opensourced | and be able to become successful GSoC intern |
| 20:50.48 | meflin | there are parts of my personal project I run screaming in fear from |
| 20:50.56 | meflin | and I am a core dev |
| 20:51.02 | somaen | It's all part of the experience. |
| 20:52.34 | somaen | It's similar to when you pick up a new library, and try to learn to use it. |
| 20:52.52 | somaen | That also takes time, but in that case you'll have a definite interface to work with. |
| 20:53.21 | somaen | When working on a project, you'll be working inside something, which means there's more that you'll have to learn how work.s |
| 20:53.25 | somaen | works. |
| 20:55.35 | opensourced | Actually, frankly speaking I am planning to withdraw my GSoC application because I find it difficult to fix even medium bugs. I don't want to waste organisation time by being a failed student in case if I get selected? What do you think? Are there chances that I will be able to make it if I try again hard? And since I need lot of help, isn't this over exploitation of mentor? |
| 20:55.56 | olly | i'd suggest you focus on finding the area you want to change - large codebases are modular (if they aren't, probably time to run screaming anyway) so you shouldn't need to understand everything in depth |
| 20:56.18 | somaen | Well, this is probably a scenario you'll find yourself in in any other code-related line of work though. |
| 20:56.20 | VarunAgw | olly, Yes, It is modular |
| 20:56.27 | olly | opensourced: the mentors are here to help |
| 20:57.32 | somaen | Even if the mentor ends up mostly fixing the bug for you, if you ask the right hows, and whys, you should learn something that you could use to fix another bug. |
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| 20:59.57 | rajul | !next |
| 20:59.58 | gsocbot | rajul: "next" is Students for Google Summer of Code 2014 will be announced on 21 April, 2014 at 19:00 UTC |
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| 21:34.47 | gauravb7090 | hey can we get to know how many slots a particular org is alloted? just curious |
| 21:35.06 | meflin | you can ask you mentors/admins they do not have to answer |
| 21:35.08 | olly | !allocations | gauravb7090 |
| 21:35.09 | gsocbot | gauravb7090: "allocations" is The number of slots allocated to each organization isn't public. The organization may however at their discretion reveal this to you if you ask nicely. |
| 21:35.34 | gevaerts | Or of course wait :) |
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| 21:36.17 | gauravb7090 | yeah thats the only option I have right now :P :) |
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| 22:02.21 | dirkhh | So what is the recommended process for announcing to the students which projects we are accepting? |
| 22:02.40 | dirkhh | Unsurprisingly with the slots being allocated there is now a steady stream of questions :-) |
| 22:02.56 | meflin | you wait untill the 21st emails from google |
| 22:03.03 | gevaerts | dirkhh: easy. You don't :) |
| 22:03.16 | meflin | it is a requirement |
| 22:03.16 | dirkhh | easy indeed |
| 22:03.39 | dirkhh | so how do we tell Google which proposals we want to accept... oh, let me guess... in melange... |
| 22:03.50 | meflin | yep |
| 22:03.56 | meflin | there is such a button |
| 22:04.09 | gevaerts | Yes. You mark them as accepted and make sure there's a mentor assiciated to each one |
| 22:04.30 | meflin | also review deduplication and make sure you show up |
| 22:04.51 | dirkhh | meflin: I don't understand that last comment |
| 22:05.09 | perepujal | you can also prepare explainations for the students that will not be accepted |
| 22:05.53 | meflin | you have read about duplicate students right? |
| 22:06.16 | dirkhh | meflin: err... ummm... no ? |
| 22:06.17 | meflin | org1 and org2 choose the same student |
| 22:06.48 | dirkhh | ahhh... we asked all students if they applied elsewhere and the ones we want to pick all said "no" |
| 22:06.50 | meflin | then that has to be resolved |
| 22:06.59 | gevaerts | I'd still pay attention |
| 22:07.01 | dirkhh | but there is the risk that that might be incorrect... |
| 22:07.09 | meflin | it should be fixed first but there is a final meeting for that |
| 22:07.09 | dirkhh | so yes, makes perfect sense. |
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| 22:07.16 | dirkhh | how do I find out? |
| 22:07.35 | meflin | well pay attention to your emails |
| 22:07.42 | dirkhh | I always do :-) |
| 22:07.44 | perepujal | then org1 get the student, org2 chooses another student who "may" have applied to org3 too |
| 22:07.49 | meflin | and you should attend the metting on the timeline |
| 22:08.03 | dirkhh | looks at the timeline to wonder what he's missing |
| 22:08.29 | meflin | perepujal: sadly true I've been there |
| 22:09.21 | dirkhh | ahhh. Apr 18 19:00 UTC "IRC meeting..." |
| 22:09.27 | dirkhh | adds to his calendar |
| 22:09.43 | meflin | if you do not attend you loose ;) |
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| 22:09.57 | gevaerts | With any luck that won't be exciting, but if it is, not being there is not good :) |
| 22:10.37 | olly | experienced org admins have learned to resolve duplicates before the meeting |
| 22:10.41 | dirkhh | it's on my calendar now, I'll be there... and I'll ask my backup admin to add it to his calendar as well... just in case |
| 22:10.49 | olly | so it tends to be a non-event in recent years |
| 22:10.56 | dirkhh | olly: how would I find out that another org is looking at the same student? |
| 22:11.09 | olly | dirkhh: it'll show in the list when that gets enabled |
| 22:11.13 | dirkhh | (and yes, first year org admin here) |
| 22:11.13 | meflin | de-dupe starts long before |
| 22:11.15 | olly | (see the timeline for when) |
| 22:11.41 | meflin | last year I had alot :( all solved before the irc |
| 22:11.51 | dirkhh | April 15... I'm sure I'll be back with more questions by then :) |
| 22:12.28 | dirkhh | as always, thanks for the instantaneous help! |
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| 22:14.29 | meflin | gevaerts: I always find it exciting I make popcorn |
| 22:15.08 | gevaerts | meflin: that helps :) |
| 22:16.37 | meflin | the secret is making sure you dups are resolved and ... lots of real butter ;) |
| 22:17.07 | gevaerts | As always! |
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| 22:17.33 | meflin | well and tea ... tea is serious business after all |
| 22:18.00 | gevaerts | Tea and butter? Moving to the Himalayas? :) |
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| 22:18.38 | meflin | never mix the butter and tea ;) |
| 22:18.55 | gevaerts | Oh |
| 22:19.09 | gevaerts | challenges meflin to try anyway! |
| 22:19.57 | meflin | "no" |
| 22:20.19 | meflin | I would post a grumpy cat link but its like pages long |
| 22:20.41 | gevaerts | would reply with the infinite cat project |
| 22:21.04 | meflin | see mdo project list :D |
| 22:21.37 | gevaerts | Yes, I know :) |
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