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| 06:03.21 | ankush_ | Hello, I am ankush .This year i want to apply for gsoc. Please guide me further |
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| 06:08.26 | NikolaiToryzin | Give it a bit |
| 06:08.37 | NikolaiToryzin | Orgs haven't started applying yet. |
| 06:09.24 | NikolaiToryzin | You can look in to potential orgs now, or come back on the first of march :) |
| 06:10.40 | ankush_ | @NikolaToryzin: from where i should start preparing for gsoc before applying. |
| 06:11.00 | nurupo | NikolaiToryzin: we also need to brainstorm ideas ;) |
| 06:11.13 | NikolaiToryzin | nurupo: True, but we've got time |
| 06:11.36 | NikolaiToryzin | ankush_: look at last years orgs |
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| 06:13.39 | ankush_ | NikolaiToryzin: Thanks for your help. |
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| 06:16.50 | valorie | ankush_: the best thing to do is find an org you like |
| 06:16.54 | valorie | and dive in |
| 06:17.02 | valorie | get to know people, start fixing bugs |
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| 06:17.08 | valorie | get to know the codebase |
| 06:17.43 | valorie | orgs want to choose people they think will be successful, and who will stick around after GSoC is over |
| 06:22.00 | ankush_ | valorie: thanks, i will find an appropriate org for me and dive in |
| 06:23.10 | valorie | excellent |
| 06:23.22 | valorie | I wish all the prospective students would! |
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| 06:27.43 | NikolaiToryzin | nurupo: Here's an idea, an easier way of choosing students. |
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| 06:28.25 | valorie | NikolaiToryzin: what do you mean? |
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| 06:29.07 | valorie | imo since it is impossible to predict the future with certainty, it will always be a balancing act mixed with a gamble |
| 06:29.29 | NikolaiToryzin | valorie: it was a joke to nurupo, the guy who helps me write our ideas page because of how stressful last student selection was. |
| 06:29.43 | valorie | ah |
| 06:29.49 | NikolaiToryzin | But it really is a gamble :) |
| 06:29.54 | valorie | how does your org do it? |
| 06:30.18 | NikolaiToryzin | I figure out our mentors |
| 06:30.27 | valorie | in KDE we break it down to teams, and have each team rank their most to least wanted |
| 06:30.36 | NikolaiToryzin | Then I task them with choosing 2 proposals they like best |
| 06:30.46 | valorie | then the org admins match the slots to the top tier |
| 06:31.01 | NikolaiToryzin | I then interview everyone and figure who I like best, splitting it in half |
| 06:31.20 | NikolaiToryzin | Then all the project head folk gather around and work out who we choose and who gets who |
| 06:31.35 | NikolaiToryzin | Your way sounds neat |
| 06:31.38 | valorie | it really is much better when the students are already familiar to the team, if not part of it |
| 06:31.49 | NikolaiToryzin | Agreed |
| 06:32.03 | valorie | well, it relies on someone setting up a humoungous google spreadsheet |
| 06:32.11 | valorie | not me, I'm death to spreadsheets |
| 06:32.17 | NikolaiToryzin | <PROTECTED> |
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| 06:32.55 | valorie | well, you have to make the teams work some |
| 06:33.05 | valorie | not always easy to make them get off the dime |
| 06:33.15 | NikolaiToryzin | For final selections and stuff I actually kept score |
| 06:33.32 | valorie | yes, they get scored 1, 2, 3 |
| 06:33.34 | NikolaiToryzin | Worked out a fun littler way of scoring people out of 100 based on a couple people's evaluations |
| 06:33.40 | NikolaiToryzin | Little* |
| 06:33.58 | valorie | one being 'we want them', 2 "we can work with them if necessary" |
| 06:34.02 | valorie | and 3, no go |
| 06:34.14 | NikolaiToryzin | Sounds pretty easy |
| 06:34.34 | valorie | some teams make tasks which must be completed |
| 06:34.34 | NikolaiToryzin | The easy parts gotta be eliminating the bulk |
| 06:34.43 | valorie | which worked out really well |
| 06:35.02 | nurupo | NikolaiToryzin: maybe i should apply as astudent this year? :P |
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| 06:35.13 | NikolaiToryzin | nurupo: hahahahahhaha,, |
| 06:35.17 | valorie | tested the kids on necessary skills, the most important part of which was responding to email and doing the task at all |
| 06:35.28 | NikolaiToryzin | nurupo: you'd make a new client but only do messaging :) |
| 06:35.44 | NikolaiToryzin | valorie: what kind of task? |
| 06:36.10 | valorie | I think the first one was subscribing to the ML |
| 06:36.17 | NikolaiToryzin | Like, coding a real world thing, a fizz bizz challenge, etc |
| 06:36.24 | nurupo | NikolaiToryzin: i don't really want to have "new client" things to be on the idea list, it's enough to have uTox |
| 06:36.40 | NikolaiToryzin | nurupo: best project ever. |
| 06:36.42 | valorie | those who passed that round by the deadline were asked to do some kind of programming task, like a sort |
| 06:36.46 | valorie | or something |
| 06:37.01 | valorie | I didn't pay attention to the details but I thought it was cool |
| 06:37.20 | NikolaiToryzin | I'm a bit of a nazi in our org selection process |
| 06:37.27 | valorie | might have been fixing at least one bug or smth |
| 06:37.57 | NikolaiToryzin | Someone who applied tried to stand out by submitting a totally broken pr |
| 06:37.57 | PulkoMandy | I think it's ok to ask to fix real-world bugs. If students can't do that, it's unlikely they can handle a 3 month development project? |
| 06:38.00 | NikolaiToryzin | Poor guy |
| 06:39.04 | valorie | PulkoMandy: I agree |
| 06:39.34 | valorie | also, we make sure that the student can at least read and respond, and send a patch to reviewboard |
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| 06:40.24 | nurupo | and make sure a student can actually build the project :) |
| 06:40.51 | valorie | right |
| 06:41.05 | valorie | I think all these are advantages not just to the org |
| 06:41.20 | valorie | but to the student who already has a verified accomplishment |
| 06:41.26 | valorie | even if they aren't chosen |
| 06:41.28 | NikolaiToryzin | What should be stressed more is the getting to know the org phase |
| 06:41.44 | valorie | that is our major stress |
| 06:41.53 | valorie | I'm a bit of a broken record about it |
| 06:41.57 | NikolaiToryzin | I mean a student should take that time to learn the work flows of things, our libraries, etx |
| 06:41.59 | valorie | here and elsewhere |
| 06:42.06 | NikolaiToryzin | That was a major mistake I made |
| 06:42.22 | valorie | we really don't want a huge chunk of unmaintained code |
| 06:42.42 | valorie | we want people to become part of the community |
| 06:42.54 | NikolaiToryzin | Agreed |
| 06:43.05 | NikolaiToryzin | But with school and everything that becomes a guessing game |
| 06:43.09 | valorie | yes |
| 06:43.25 | valorie | which is why I keep steering students from here to the orgs NOW |
| 06:44.34 | NikolaiToryzin | Not a bad idea |
| 06:45.05 | nurupo | i was applying as a student in 2013 and didn't know that much about gsoc. i have made a nice proposal with a timeline, build the project, fixed 2-3 bugs, kept talking with the mentor, did research on libraries i would use, etc. and still got dumped :) |
| 06:45.32 | valorie | nurupo: did you ask the org why? |
| 06:45.56 | nurupo | in 2014 i was a mentor for an org and was going over hundreds of proposals, learning how it's to be on the other side |
| 06:46.10 | valorie | at least in kde, we try to guide the students on their proposals |
| 06:46.19 | valorie | some refuse to listen |
| 06:46.24 | nurupo | valorie: i think they never replied, the kde guys |
| 06:46.39 | valorie | hmmm |
| 06:46.45 | NikolaiToryzin | Burned? |
| 06:46.49 | nurupo | well, to the question of why |
| 06:47.10 | valorie | I was somewhat involved then, and I don't recall seeing anything from you nurupo |
| 06:47.16 | valorie | ah |
| 06:47.37 | valorie | well, sometimes there were simply better proposals that beat you out |
| 06:47.58 | nurupo | well, going over so many proposals last year i realized that my 2013 proposal could have been better :) |
| 06:48.04 | valorie | if only we had a reliable crystal ball |
| 06:48.09 | valorie | ok |
| 06:48.17 | valorie | I hope you still like KDE |
| 06:48.20 | valorie | :-) |
| 06:48.55 | valorie | that's the thing - it isn't always the proposal |
| 06:48.59 | nurupo | yep, use KDE and write crossplatform code in Qt :) |
| 06:49.09 | valorie | it's really the student |
| 06:49.22 | nurupo | sometimes it also slots |
| 06:49.37 | valorie | and whether or not they will both be successfull, give a good contribution we need, and stick around to maintain their code |
| 06:49.44 | valorie | oh, very much so |
| 06:50.05 | valorie | we couldn't take students we dearly wanted, because we didn't have the right mentors for them |
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| 06:50.25 | valorie | burning mentors out is a certain way to org death |
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| 06:51.17 | NikolaiToryzin | An issue we had was having enough mentors and good students but not enough slots |
| 06:51.24 | nurupo | we had quite a few good students that i wanted to take last year, i even asked them to do ui mockups of their ideas, write some sample code, etc. they have done all that extra stuff for the proposal, i was happy about them, and then we get just 4 slots :\ |
| 06:51.34 | valorie | we've taken fewer slots the past couple of years mostly because of that |
| 06:52.05 | NikolaiToryzin | It was our first year so I understand, but we ended up having mentors who didn't do much at all because of a lack of students to give them |
| 06:52.18 | NikolaiToryzin | They couldn't really help with other projects they didn't know of |
| 06:52.25 | valorie | right |
| 06:52.41 | valorie | taking on too many slots leads to burned out orgs too |
| 06:52.55 | valorie | KDE was in danger of that a few years ago |
| 06:53.22 | valorie | lydia wisely requested fewer slots, and gave up more sometimes as well |
| 06:53.32 | NikolaiToryzin | Like, 1 mentor was great in objective C and our libraries and a student who wanted to make an iPhone client but couldn't be chosen due to a lack of em |
| 06:53.57 | NikolaiToryzin | Great student too, but we reasoned some other more popular areas deserved it better |
| 06:54.07 | valorie | sure |
| 06:54.24 | NikolaiToryzin | It was like trying to beat split 4 pieces of bread among 6 ducks |
| 06:54.26 | valorie | and you can never know for sure whether or not your decision was correct |
| 06:54.30 | NikolaiToryzin | Best* |
| 06:54.35 | NikolaiToryzin | I never will |
| 06:54.40 | valorie | you just have to decide, and live with it |
| 06:54.46 | NikolaiToryzin | But the past is in the past |
| 06:54.49 | NikolaiToryzin | Agreed |
| 06:54.49 | valorie | the agonies of the org admin |
| 06:54.53 | valorie | ol |
| 06:54.53 | NikolaiToryzin | :) |
| 06:54.56 | valorie | lol |
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| 07:00.15 | nurupo | valorie: we also had a student working on a relativly popular at the time project which got freezed soon after gsoc finished because the main developer couldn't find time to work on it and there wasn't anyone else who would maintain it. now the same developer is rewriting the project because he realized that it was a bit poorely designed too |
| 07:01.08 | valorie | a lot of that goes on in KDE too |
| 07:01.14 | valorie | such a huge community |
| 07:01.34 | nurupo | because of that we now prioritize our core projects a lot more than we did during previous gsoc |
| 07:01.38 | valorie | people start developing something in their teens, go through uni, then get married and start having kids |
| 07:01.46 | valorie | guess what gets put on the back burner |
| 07:01.58 | nurupo | heh |
| 07:02.13 | valorie | but I mean part of successful development is building a team |
| 07:02.17 | nurupo | well, can't blame them either, they are contributing their time working on things they like |
| 07:02.18 | valorie | and replacing yourself |
| 07:02.32 | nurupo | instead of spending time with kids and such |
| 07:02.33 | valorie | because everyone wants to stay fresh |
| 07:02.37 | valorie | right |
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| 07:02.55 | NikolaiToryzin | valorie: I figure being an org admin is like being president. Sounds fun on paper, stressful as hell in practice :) |
| 07:02.59 | valorie | it's sad when people jealously hold their project to their chest |
| 07:03.12 | valorie | because when they are done, so is the project, usually |
| 07:03.25 | NikolaiToryzin | You've got a point, things really do need to be adoptable and maintainable |
| 07:03.27 | valorie | NikolaiToryzin: why do you think my hair is gray! |
| 07:03.30 | valorie | lol |
| 07:03.33 | NikolaiToryzin | :) |
| 07:03.48 | valorie | really, we have an org team |
| 07:03.57 | valorie | we try to make that maintainable as well |
| 07:04.02 | NikolaiToryzin | Hahaha |
| 07:04.05 | valorie | and fun |
| 07:04.13 | valorie | so far, so good |
| 07:04.23 | NikolaiToryzin | I've got a group of folks to help me make it manageable :) |
| 07:04.46 | NikolaiToryzin | nurupo here did a good job at making my initial ideas page draft look great and readable |
| 07:04.50 | valorie | if it is stressfull as hell, then it is time to get some help |
| 07:04.58 | nurupo | valorie: yeah, finding several people whose judgment you trust enough to be able to give them commit rights and entrust to be maintainers in your absance is important |
| 07:05.04 | NikolaiToryzin | Choices are the stressful part |
| 07:05.15 | valorie | yes, no getting around that part |
| 07:05.31 | NikolaiToryzin | When everything's been chosen and we can start I can finally relax a little |
| 07:05.34 | valorie | asking knowledgeable people to rank the choices makes it easier though |
| 07:05.52 | valorie | I don't like agonizing |
| 07:05.58 | NikolaiToryzin | Eh |
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| 07:07.21 | NikolaiToryzin | Making sure everyone's got evaluations in and progressing nicely is actually fairly nice |
| 07:07.36 | valorie | yup |
| 07:07.42 | NikolaiToryzin | By then things are going smoothly and I only have to bug everyone a little |
| 07:08.22 | NikolaiToryzin | Either way, great talking to a fellow org admin :) |
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| 07:09.26 | valorie | last year was so stressful I didn't hang out in this chan |
| 07:09.32 | valorie | this year I will! |
| 07:10.08 | valorie | the stress wasn't from KDE or GSoC |
| 07:10.12 | valorie | family stuff |
| 07:11.49 | NikolaiToryzin | Gotcha |
| 07:12.08 | NikolaiToryzin | I stuck around a good bit last year myself |
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| 11:21.44 | abiogenesis | Hi there! Will GSoC 2015 be available for students from Russia? FAQ mentions that it is allowed, but it may be outdated. |
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| 11:25.39 | gevaerts | abiogenesis: the faq is the only official documentation about that. If you're not sure it's good enough, you'll have to contact the google people, either here when they happen to be online (which is mostly during California business hours) or by email |
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| 11:29.22 | abiogenesis | gevaerts, thanks |
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| 13:20.15 | kblin | ignacio: hey there |
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| 13:21.40 | kblin | ignacio: I'm not online as much as I used to over the week-ends, care to explain what gcibot does? |
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| 13:41.38 | ignacio | kblin, ignore that:) the bot will die today! :P BUt the idea was to paste a task link, and gcibot tell the data of that task |
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| 15:36.02 | kblin | ignacio: sounds useful. sorry I didn't see your question before |
| 15:36.10 | kblin | ignacio: next year, I guess |
| 15:36.12 | kblin | :) |
| 15:36.12 | ignacio | kblin, maybe next year:) |
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| 17:35.45 | ankita_ | hi! could some one suggest an organisation with php+html+css requirements for gsoc? |
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| 17:46.42 | blast007 | ankita_: look through the organizations from last year to get an idea. you can filter the tags for things like PHP. http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2014 |
| 17:47.08 | blast007 | (not that all the orgs there will be accepted this year, not course - but again, it gives you a rough idea) |
| 17:47.16 | ankita_ | blast007: thanks! i am going through it :) |
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| 18:10.34 | TheNav | So yea :( |
| 18:10.36 | TheNav | It's finished :( |
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| 18:25.22 | Anshoe|away | TheNav, yeah |
| 18:25.30 | Anshoe|away | Enjoyed it though ! |
| 18:25.33 | TheNav | Yep |
| 18:25.36 | TheNav | It was amazing |
| 18:25.41 | Anshoe|away | I know right |
| 18:25.49 | Anshoe|away | anyways, gtg now. |
| 18:25.53 | Anshoe|away | Maybe later |
| 18:27.48 | Shikher | hi |
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