IRC log for #gsoc on 20150309

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00:43.16iChunhey guys, anyone know where I could go to get some help with Google Analytics?
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01:05.16kragniziChun: not this channel
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01:12.59iChunkragniz: well, there's a reason I asked "where" and didn't specify my issue.
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01:32.45AymenHi everyone
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01:49.04AymenSomeone from the gossip team there ?
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01:54.31MatthewWilkesAymen: Gossip team? I think you might have the wrong channel?
01:54.41MatthewWilkes!anyone | Aymen
01:54.41gsocbotAymen: "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization directly. You can find an org's contact information via the org list at http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2014
01:55.01Aymenoups
01:55.18AymenI wanted to say gsoc* ( automatic spell checker )
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01:56.25iChunI got it to work, cheers.
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04:04.20machis there a gnu gsoc irc channel?
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04:14.17ollymach: check the gnu org page on google-melange
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06:52.49rohanrathodhello
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06:53.31rohanrathodhas anyone submitted a gsoc application so far?
06:55.00rharishrohanrathod: I don't think you can "submit" proposals before 16th
06:55.18rharishhowever, you can always get it reviewed :)
06:56.17rohanrathodthanks rharish!
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07:02.34nuruposeveral students have already have sent their to-be-submitted proposals to us, started socializing, submitting patches and discussing projects, so don't lose your time and act :)
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07:05.55scribblemaniacnurupo: should we be concerned if we have not begun to do that yet?
07:08.08nurupogenerally, the ealier you start the better
07:09.10nurupowhen you start, a mentor might already have an email thread with 100 emails discussing the project idea with a student :)
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08:23.24acgtyrantHello anyone, can a mentor take charge of two or more projects at the same time? Of course there is only a student for every project.
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08:24.50|Kev|acgtyrant: An experienced mentor might manage to do a decent job on two students. More than that is vanishingly unlikely, and a new mentor shouldn't try more than one.
08:25.48|Kev|The advice on http://google-opensource.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/dos-and-donts-of-google-summer-of-code_21.html still stands, I think.
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08:27.36acgtyrant|Kev|, Thank you for your answer!
08:28.31|Kev|NP
08:29.46|Kev|Mentors typically underestimate how much time mentoring takes. 10 hours/week per student isn't out of the question, and if you do that for two students you're suddenly looking at half an FTE.
08:36.37valorieacgtyrant: in KDE we like to have two mentors per student
08:36.51valorieunless the student is very experienced
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08:39.23acgtyrant|Kev|, valorie, so it is. However I am a student actually, and my potential mentor looks like want to take two student, so I am doubt that is it workable
08:40.21valorieyes, I would ask others in the team if they can take you on
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08:42.21|Kev|KDE really do give the impression of having their stuff together with GSoC, year on year, it's inspiring.
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08:55.00kblinacgtyrant: unless you apply for nmap, where the author repeatedly and successfully mentored multiple students per year
08:55.23kblinbut afaik he's doing nmap dev full time, and basically spent his summer mentoring full-time
08:55.44kblinmost mentors can't put in that much of their time
08:57.14|Kev|kblin: That's not ideal from a bus factor, though.
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09:14.47valorie|Kev|: how nice of you to say so
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09:15.23valorieof course from the admin POV, we hear mostly about problems
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09:18.46|Kev|Sure, but as an umbrella admin (on a smaller scale), I get impressed. Even if it's only the impression of having your stuff together :p
09:19.33gevaerts|Kev|: KDE is about shiney GUI stuff. They know how to make sure appearances are good! :)
09:19.39|Kev|:)
09:20.09valorieha!
09:20.29valoriewell, we try to plan our way ahead to avoid as many problems as possible
09:20.43valorietaking fewer students if necessary
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09:21.41valorieit also helps to have a small team of admins so nobody gets burned out
09:22.14|Kev|That would help tremendously. We have people who'd step up if I got hit by a bus, but short of that I tend to end up doing everything.
09:26.17kblin|Kev|: yeah, to be fair I think he's not doing that anymore either. some of the former students are also mentors for nmap now
09:26.32|Kev|valorie: Is there a vast amount of cat-herding for your admins to gather the ideas pages, teaser tasks etc., or are your mentors mostly on top of things?
09:26.40|Kev|kblin: Good good :)
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09:27.49kblin|Kev|: for me, I have the impression the ramp-up involves me yelling at a lot of people via IRC, mail and sometimes phone
09:28.02kblinI also wonder if KDE has a magic trick there
09:28.55valorieright, the mentors are on top of things!
09:28.59valorielol
09:29.09|Kev|kblin: I'm at the stage of being about to pull one of our sub-orgs because they've not produced any teasers yet.
09:29.13valoriemuch use of Nightrose's famous Point Stick
09:29.21valoriepointy I mean
09:29.47valoriereally, everybody loves the students
09:30.00valoriewe try to get as many to Akademy every summer as we can
09:30.13valorieand their talks are attending by *everyone*
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09:31.09|Kev|Everybody loves the students with us, to be fair. It's just that we don't necessarily have the information-sharing set up well enough so that mentors remember what they need to do in advance. Or notice when I remind them. This is largely my fault as org-admin, I'm just not quite sure what I can do better than sending out regular mail, asking everyone to read the mentor guide, etc.
09:31.15|Kev|Oh well.
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09:33.34valorie|Kev|: get their phone numbers
09:33.38valorie:-)
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09:34.13valorieactually, I've never gone that far
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09:35.34|Kev|We're a small org (even though we're an umbrella) - typically around the 10 student mark, or even fewer sometimes, so I'm encouraging everyone into an org-wide channel this year.
09:35.41olly|Kev|: get past students to mentor - saves you having to explain how gsoc works...
09:36.03|Kev|So now I have to keep an eye on what the mentors are saying to the students. <student> Can we have two students working on a project? <mentor> Yes, that's fine. <Kev> ...
09:36.28|Kev|olly: Yeah, this is good advice, ta.
09:36.38|Kev|valorie: It might come to phone numbers, ta.
09:36.55|Kev|Although other than one sub-org, I think I at least have everything I need from them all at the moment.
09:38.07valorieyikes, to have mentors giving out cockeyed info like that, though
09:38.09kblin|Kev|: I don't add mentors I don't have a phone number of
09:38.17|Kev|kblin: That makes you smarter than me :)
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09:38.57kblin|Kev|: arguably, for Samba that is greatly facilitated by the samba team contact list and the "only samba team mentors" policy
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09:39.11|Kev|I imagine not being an umbrella is helpful there, yeah.
09:39.53kblinright, I was about to say, that's the advantage of not being an umbrella
09:40.10kblin"I don't know you, so you're not going to be a mentor" doesn't work for umbrella orgs
09:40.18|Kev|It does :)
09:40.35|Kev|Well, it does for small umbrella orgs like ours, where we have RL meetups and things.
09:40.41kblinok, but maybe for a lower bar of "knowing"
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09:40.45|Kev|Right.
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09:40.55|Kev|This is 'interacted with and are aware of their project and that they're senior there'.
09:41.05|Kev|Rather than 'have their phone number already'.
09:42.05kblinand phone numbers of their colleagues, frequently ;)
09:42.27kblinthe stalking options I have when a mentor seems to go AWOL
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09:42.54sgulatiHello...I subscribed to  the mailing list of an organiation but I haven't received any confirmation till now. My query has neither been posted or answered till now and I am running short of time as student applications are opening soon.
09:43.14kblinso apart from that one mentor who always goes on his summer vacation w/o network access exactly a week before the final evals, I never had a problem :)
09:43.26gingerninja23sgulati : Which organisation ?
09:43.36kblinsgulati: nothing much we can do about that, I guess
09:43.37sgulatiASCEND
09:43.47|Kev|sgulati: You can generally log into mailing lists when you subscribe, to check if you're subscribed.
09:44.00|Kev|If you're not getting any responses from an org, it might be time to investigate others.
09:44.12kblinyeah, what |Kev| said
09:44.13|Kev|*AS LONG AS* you've left sensible periods for response.
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09:44.23|Kev|(e.g. we're talking several days, not several hours)
09:45.06sgulatiIts mentioned that I cannot log into the mailing list till the time I get a confirmation email from their side.
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09:45.48sgulatiIs there a way to contact the person in charge?
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09:46.37kblincheck their website for the listed ways to contact them
09:46.44valoriesgulati: have you checked your spam folder for the code/confirmation/etc.
09:47.00valorieoften those get shunted since they are robot mails
09:47.01carver404sgulati: you should've got a confirmation mail as soon as you've subscribed. Because that's done by mailman. Automated.
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09:47.49sgulativalorie: Yes I have checked my spam folder...its no there.
09:48.10Aymenhi all
09:48.22valorieit won't hurt to send another email subscribe message
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09:48.59sgulaticarver404: I tried many times but I haven't received confirmation till now.
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09:49.14Aymensomeone know if during the previous years, there are iOS open source project to work on ?
09:49.24sgulativalorie: I have already done that 9 times.
09:49.53valoriewow, sgulati
09:50.17valoriemail and irc are usually the best ways of communication
09:50.18kblinsgulati: we have orgs that are sluggish to respond every year, you might want to see if you can find something else that is interesting
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09:50.54sgulativalorie: The organization does not have a irc channel.
09:51.10valoriewow
09:51.12kblinafter all, if they're that bad at adding people to their maling lists, do you trust them to mentor you during the summer?
09:51.17kblinI'm not sure I would
09:52.21|Kev|Oh, and the links in their profile are dead, for added insult/injury.
09:52.39|Kev|Looks like the project has just stopped existing o_O
09:52.58valoriedamn, and it was hard to get into GSoC this year
09:53.01valorielots of competition
09:53.14valoriemaybe they spent all their energy on that
09:53.24|Kev|valorie: I'm assuming they're vanished since the crew reviewed the application.
09:53.54|Kev|Ah, their ideas page is still live, just the other links that aren't.
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09:54.33valoriegads
09:54.36|Kev|Hmm. No teasers? I didn't know there were orgs that still didn't do that.
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09:55.26olly|Kev|: hmm, the links seem to work for me...
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09:55.36|Kev|Odd. They were failing for me. Let's try again.
09:55.45|Kev|http://ascend4.org/index.php?title=ASCEND_overview ?
09:56.08ollyhttp://ascend4.org/Student_projects
09:56.35|Kev|Yeah, I said the ideas list link worked :)
09:56.42ollyoh, i missed that
09:56.44ollyhttp://ascend4.org/ASCEND_overview
09:56.50ollyworks
09:57.30kblinyeah, but that's not the link they have on their melange profile
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09:57.54ollysure, but it's the first thing I tried modifying it to
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09:58.42ollyit's kind of disappointing that there's so much competition, and you see stuff like this though
09:58.53kblinyeah
09:59.19kblinespecially when there's a load of orgs that basically got kicked out "everything was great, but we had to make space for new orgs"
09:59.34ollywe didn't get in this year, and I'm fine with giving other orgs a chance, but I wish they'd all make better use of it
10:00.05sgulatikblin: Do you suggest that I should stop applying for the project of this organization in such scenario?
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10:00.08ollymind you, maybe all our URLs didn't work either
10:00.25|Kev|sgulati: I'd at least hedge your bets and look elsewhere.
10:00.27ollysgulati: if I was a student, it wouldn't inspire me with confidence
10:00.36|Kev|If it was me, rather than being advice.
10:01.28ollyi'd likely go for an org that uses IRC too, but it depends on how you like to interact
10:01.55kblinsgulati: this is your decision, of course
10:02.58|Kev|olly: You mean 'realtime communication technologies', right? ;)
10:03.11kblinI'm just saying that personally, an org I can't even interact with during the start of the program wouldn't fill me with confidence
10:03.32|Kev|(We're presenting a web interface onto an XMPP MUC, which should be a better fit, given who we are)
10:04.07kblinif your project idea for them is the best idea you ever had, you might have other priorities
10:04.46olly|Kev|: some form of group chat really
10:04.53kblinI certainly had moments in my life where people were advising me to do something else and I decided to do what I wanted anyway
10:05.00ollywhich XMPP can do of course
10:05.01kblinsometimes, that even worked out in the end ;)
10:05.37sgulatikblin: I have been working on their project idea since last 6 days...it will be very difficult for me to search another organization and start my work all over again.
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10:06.06ollysgulati: if you're keen on ASCEND, I'd try to find someone's email address there
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10:06.26ollyand email them explaining you can't seem to join the mailing list
10:06.27|Kev|Their contact page says it's ok to poke individual devs via SF, so that might be an option.
10:06.59Aymensomeone know if during the previous years, there are iOS open source project to work on ?
10:07.04kumarawasthiHello everyone. I'm new to GSOC. I had a few questions. What exactly is this channel used for? To connect mentors with students? Or discuss technical issues? Or come up with new ideas?
10:07.24ollyAymen: you can see the list of projects for each year, so try searching that
10:07.40Aymenho yes I forgot it
10:07.46sgulatiolly: That would be very helpful of you
10:08.04ollyiOS and open source aren't the best fit though - Apple are rather GPL-hostile
10:08.09|Kev|kumarawasthi: None of the above.
10:08.21kblinsgulati: I think that was a suggestion for you to do, not an offer to do it for you ;)
10:08.27|Kev|kumarawasthi: It's for high-level GSoC stuff, not about individual projects or organisations.
10:08.32ollyolly: no, I'm suggesting you try tht
10:08.56kumarawasthithanks kev! So a general Q-and-A portal?
10:09.46sgulatikblin : "if you're keen on ASCEND, I'd try to find someone's email address there"....I suppose I'd try doesn't mean suggesting ;)
10:09.47|Kev|Something like that, yes.
10:10.07|Kev|sgulati: "I would" - meaning "I would do this if I was in your shoes"
10:10.15|Kev|sgulati: Not "I will"
10:10.16kumarawasthiGot it! Appreciate your help |Kev|
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10:28.37kblingah, biologists
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10:29.07kblinthere's about an order of magnitude between 1 Gb and 1 GB.
10:29.26kblinconsiders writing a rant email
10:31.10gevaertskblin: be happy you're not working with cosmologists who think an error below three orders of magnitude means it's perfect!
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10:31.56ollyb to B *is* 3 orders of magnitude
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10:33.19iyogeshjoshils
10:33.38kblin.
10:33.40kblin..
10:33.45iyogeshjoshisorry wrong window
10:33.48iyogeshjoshi:P
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10:34.40kblingevaerts: well, if people are telling you they're producing as much data as the LHC, there's many reasons to be suspicious
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13:09.00raincrashhello
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13:09.31kragnizhello, raincrash!
13:10.33raincrashI was wondering what will happen if I submit two proposals to different channels and get selected for both.. will I have a choice or the mentors?
13:10.44raincrashKragniz: ^
13:11.30kragnizraincrash: that depends on the orgs
13:11.45kragnizsome will give you some say in the matter
13:12.36raincrashkragniz: So the mentors of diff orgs communicate prior to the acceptance?
13:13.05gevaertsThey will (have to...) talk to each other
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13:13.20gevaertsThey *may* decide to contact you as well, but that's by no means a given
13:13.41gevaertsIf you really prefer one, you could consider mentioning that in the application
13:14.04raincrashgevaerts: So I should be ready to do both.. Thanks.
13:14.10gevaertsWell yes
13:14.23gevaertsThe assumption is that you don't propose projects you don
13:14.26gevaertst want to do :)
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13:14.48raincrashI will mention that I am applying for the other org. also in my proposal.
13:15.39raincrashgevaerts: I love to work on either of them for GSoC. I can do the other beyond GSoC.
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15:09.12carolsserves some tea and coffee
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15:10.42kblinhey carols, how's life in the federal republic of northern california?
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15:10.56carolskblin: it’s great, even though i’m not there right now :-)
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15:11.15carolshow are you?
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15:13.33kblincarols: spring finally hit this island, so life is good :)
15:13.39carolsawesome :-)
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15:18.52Shinigami_prohi!
15:19.07carolshi Shinigami_pro
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15:20.11Shinigami_procarols: Does google provide documentation prior to the coding period if my college asks for it?
15:20.25carolsShinigami_pro: if you’re an accepted student?
15:20.38Shinigami_proofcourse!
15:20.42carolssure
15:20.56carolswe’ll provide any time after the start of the community bonding period
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15:28.45Shinigami_procarols: thanks. Also, my can my college instructors help me (not in coding!) in technical doubts if I had any.. or all the affairs should be dealt with the mentor only?
15:29.02carolsShinigami_pro: that’s up to your mentors to decide
15:29.07carolsyou should ask them
15:29.36Shinigami_prook
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15:32.45|Kev|From a mentors perspective, it's good for students to be able to find help on their own, whether that's from $FAVOURITE_SEARCH_ENGINE, friends, acquaintances or whatever, but design decisions etc. are likely to want to be discussed with the mentor, as they're responsible (with you) for getting your code into shape and merged.
15:33.03|Kev|That is - discussing with anyone is fine, but it's the mentors you need to satisfy.
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16:06.38Snuupywhat's the US visa for? accepting payment? I thought you'd only need a US visa if you were physically located in the US and working.
16:08.16gevaertsYou're correct. Are you seeing something that says otherwise somewhere?
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16:08.54tniessenSnuupy: The FAQ states: "You must also be eligible to work in the country in which you'll reside throughout the duration of the program, e.g. if you are in the United States on an F-1 visa", so you will need a visa only if you live in the US.
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16:10.21Snuupytniessen: got it, thanks.
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16:22.52carolsserves some more tea and coffee
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16:25.20downeyYay, tea!
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16:25.59carols:-)
16:26.03carolsi’m having coffee myself
16:26.06carolsit’s that time.
16:26.17downeyThat bad eh
16:27.01downeyI suppose it is Monday
16:27.53carolswell, not for our friends across the international dateline
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16:29.56downeyI tried to cross the IDL so I wouldn't have to deal with Monday morning, but sadly here I am in LAX
16:30.24carolssorry downey
16:30.34downeygoes for coffee too
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16:59.21kblindowney: but for a change I don't wish it was friday already
16:59.36kblinmainly because then I'd have missed an important work deadline and a flight
17:01.01kragnizkblin: that sounds like the worst type of friday!
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17:10.04downeyUgh
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17:11.39carolseverything okay, downey?
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17:17.01downeycarols: maybe not kblin's week :-)
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17:21.26alcuadradoIs there any geographical restriction for participating in gsoc? I'm from argentina, and some things (like getting money from a foreign country) can get pretty difficult from here
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17:22.33tniessenalcuadrado: Read the FAQ: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2015/help_page#4._Who_is_not_eligible_to_participate_as
17:23.12alcuadradotniessen: I read it. But maybe there were some extra info not included in the FAQ
17:23.28tniessenalcuadrado: According to the FAQ, you may participate (including getting paid), but you will not receive a t-shirt
17:23.48alcuadradoOk, I guess I'm gonna trust the FAQ
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17:24.11alcuadradoI know this may sound like a stupid question, but this kind of things are very chaotic in my country
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17:24.43tniessenNote that you need to be eligible to work according to the laws of your country
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17:27.36alcuadradoSure, I am. But I don't quiet undestand how google pays to gsoc students. You don't became a temporal google employee, right?
17:27.49carolsalcuadrado: what’s the concern here?
17:27.55carolsthis program is all done online
17:28.03carolsit’s not for google employees
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17:29.13alcuadradoSure, I know carols. I just want to be sure, before applying, that if I get into the program I can actually get paid.
17:29.29carolsalcuadrado: you will be sent the money via payoneer.
17:29.38carolsyou’re welcome to check if that’s applicable for your country
17:29.43carolsi’m pretty sure it is
17:29.46carolsbut please feel free to check
17:30.31*** join/#gsoc fewcha_ (~sbairagya@101.221.131.221)
17:31.06carolsand when and if you’re accepted i’m happy to put you in touch with our payoneer representatives if you still have trouble getting the money
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17:32.58alcuadradoNice, that was the kind of info I was looking for
17:33.01alcuadradothanks carols!
17:33.03carolscheers
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17:39.15MatthewWilkesThere should be a service that sends money internationally by posting a briefcase full of 1$ bill bundles
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17:40.44VarunAgw(y)
17:42.21teepeeas if that would count as money everywhere ;)
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17:48.19sgallaghMatthewWilkes: That service exists. Haven't you ever heard of the mafia?
17:48.40MatthewWilkessgallagh: Do they have an API?
17:49.10sgallaghMatthewWilkes: "Ask the guy in the suit at the local bar"
17:49.46MatthewWilkessgallagh: Ah, and he'll sign my JWT?
17:50.19sgallaghSure, but will anyone trust the signature?
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17:55.12austinc88Hi!
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17:56.00teepeehi austinc88
17:56.02tniessenHi austinc88
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18:03.16AreebI have send an email to mentor many times even i have tried their irc chanell but no respond i get from them.Can any one tell me what to do next.
18:04.15teepeeAreeb: how long did you wait?
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18:05.21Areebits almost 5-6 days
18:05.26teepeeAreeb: for irc you also have to consider timezones, so responses can be delayed quite some time
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18:05.44teepeehmm, that's really long time :/
18:06.15Areebthat is fine but after dropping personal msg any one should response
18:06.52teepeeindeed, for listed mentors that should be the case
18:07.02teepeeas for how to go on, did you read the student manual?
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18:07.50Areebyeah even i have started making sample code but to proceed in right way i need their help
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18:09.10Valodimfor the record, unsolicited personal messages on irc are considered rude
18:09.41teepeetrue, pinging the mentor hardly counts as unsolicited in my view though
18:10.04Areebbut what to do when  public msg are not helping out..
18:10.17Valodimteepee: for an accepted student, sure
18:10.38teepeewell, of cause there are no accepted students yet
18:11.17teepeeAreeb: any other means of communication like mailing list?
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18:12.02AreebI think i have to try this one...teepee
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18:13.31Areeb<PROTECTED>
18:14.13teepeewill be mentor assuming we get some nice proposals
18:15.06AreebHow can i say
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18:41.36|Kev|Nightrose: Thanks for that RT, I hadn't seen dberkholz's talk before. That was good.
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18:51.35aa100kashhey m new to irc
18:52.22aa100kashanyone there?
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18:52.53dberkholzyep
18:52.56dberkholzlots of us
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18:53.48aa100kashclear
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18:56.37aa100kashi m proficient in coding in c and c++
18:56.57aa100kashcan anyone tell me is it sufficient for gsoc?
18:57.21aa100kashi have no knowledge about developing a software
18:59.07aa100kash?
18:59.41dberkholzthere are projects at a variety of experience levels, and in many different programming languages
19:00.03meflinhttp://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ch003_am-i-good-enough/
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19:00.26aa100kashso shud i directly contact the organisations and discuss with them?
19:01.05dberkholzread the link meflin shared. the rest of that guide will be very helpful in understanding what to do
19:01.43aa100kashthanks
19:01.59aa100kashwell where do u people belong to?
19:02.26fewchaaa100kash: and please try to refrain from using short forms for words, while conversing in IRC :)
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19:03.10aa100kashthanks since I am new here
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21:37.22anjali_shenHi all
21:37.52anjali_shenI am a newbie. How should I start preparing for gsoc ?
21:38.32Valodimhttp://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/
21:38.47anjali_shentanmaysahay94: hi s
21:39.47anjali_shentanmaysahay94: sir**
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22:42.19Nightrose|Kev|: ;-)
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