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| 12:27.03 | rahul_prasad_ | hello.. i am new here.. i just needed an advice. I am going through all the organisations one by one and it is taking a lot of time. Any suggestions as to how I can do it faster? I have knowledge of C, C++, Python,data structures, algorithms and machine learning. I want to contribute and learn as well as earn from this, so any suggestions to which organisation to choose or how to choose without having to go through all the orga |
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| 12:31.57 | rahul_prasad_ | and this is a discussion forum,right? |
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| 12:40.15 | PulkoMandy | it is a chat, actually |
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| 12:40.44 | PulkoMandy | as for the projects, there is no automated process to match you with projects. Use the tags in the GSoC system, or just pick some software you know and use |
| 12:40.57 | PulkoMandy | it is always more interesting to work on something you see an use for, or enjoy using |
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| 12:52.52 | rahul_prasad_ | okay. Thanks :) |
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| 14:28.10 | tasin | hi |
| 14:28.20 | tasin | anyone active |
| 14:29.21 | PulkoMandy | hi |
| 14:30.36 | andre__ | tasin: How does it matter? :P |
| 14:30.57 | andre__ | Just kidding - if you have a question, please just ask it. Don't ask to ask on IRC. |
| 14:32.03 | tasin | Do I have to submit my own original idea to the mentoring orgs or can I just work on any project decided upon by an org? |
| 14:32.21 | andre__ | both |
| 14:33.16 | tasin | Is it mandatory to submit my own idea in order to be successfully accepted for GSoC |
| 14:33.36 | PulkoMandy | the orgs provide only a rough idea, which you have to turn into a proposal of your owj |
| 14:33.36 | tasin | or could i just work on an orgs idea |
| 14:34.09 | PulkoMandy | or you can come up with your own idea if you want, but it must match the org's needs so you should discuss with the org to make sure they are interested |
| 14:34.38 | tasin | and when I go about hunting for an org to work with what should be my strategy? |
| 14:34.54 | tasin | I mean should I lookout for orgs that use tech that I know |
| 14:34.56 | tasin | or |
| 14:35.15 | tasin | or learn up the technology that some org uses |
| 14:35.27 | tasin | and then contact that org |
| 14:35.31 | PulkoMandy | there is no universal recipe |
| 14:35.48 | PulkoMandy | most of the time they will be happy to help you getting up to speed with the technology |
| 14:35.56 | PulkoMandy | (everyone needs more contributors) |
| 14:36.15 | PulkoMandy | it is a good idea to pick software you find could be useful, or something you already use |
| 14:36.29 | PulkoMandy | that's more motivating than working on a project you don't plan to use |
| 14:37.25 | tasin | I mean I already know C and C++ so should I spend more time to learn up its intricacies and master it up or go about learning a bunch of new technologies |
| 14:37.50 | tasin | its like saying should one be jack of all trades or master of one |
| 14:38.34 | PulkoMandy | that's up to you, if you like writting C or C++, continue with that, and if you want to discover something new, go ahead :) |
| 14:38.49 | PulkoMandy | in either case the orgs in GSoC can help you on your quest |
| 14:39.02 | tasin | PulkoMandy have to participated in GSoC previously? |
| 14:39.37 | PulkoMandy | yes, I failed being selected in 2008, was a student in 2009 and a mentor in 2010-2014 |
| 14:39.54 | PulkoMandy | unfortunately my org wasn't part of GSoC for 2015 and 2016 |
| 14:40.01 | PulkoMandy | we hope to be selected again next year |
| 14:40.26 | tasin | I mean can you tell from experience that knowing only C and C++ can I have a lot of opportunities |
| 14:40.40 | tasin | like are there many orgs using those languages |
| 14:41.34 | tasin | I hope that not knowing too many fancy technologies does not become a barrier and prevent me from being selected |
| 14:41.42 | PulkoMandy | you can check the org list, there is a filter by tags IIRC, where you can enter "C++" and see some orgs |
| 14:42.12 | PulkoMandy | some open source projects have roots back to the 70s, so not everyone is using fancy technologies |
| 14:42.26 | tasin | ok |
| 14:42.39 | PulkoMandy | most of the GNU/Linux software stack is written in C and some C++ for example |
| 14:42.52 | gevaerts | objects to this insinuation that C is not fancy! |
| 14:43.00 | PulkoMandy | kernel, C library, GTK toolkit, X server, web browsers, ⦠|
| 14:43.21 | tasin | and do I need to be very good at data structures and algo to make some significant contribution |
| 14:43.34 | PulkoMandy | it depends, and I can't comment for all orgs |
| 14:43.50 | tasin | I'm sorry if anyone is offended or someone's sentiments are hurt :) |
| 14:43.52 | PulkoMandy | just check the ideas lists and see for yourself what it involves |
| 14:44.09 | gevaerts | The main thing you need to be reasonably good at is communication |
| 14:44.10 | tasin | what org are you associated with? |
| 14:44.44 | PulkoMandy | not so random idea list: https://www.haiku-os.org/community/gsoc/2016 |
| 14:44.48 | PulkoMandy | (yes that's my org) |
| 14:45.04 | tasin | I'm new to IRC and not a familiar with its etiquettes |
| 14:45.31 | tasin | If I have transgressed some limits in any way excuse me |
| 14:45.52 | tasin | and I would be delighted if uou could point out my mistakes |
| 14:45.55 | tasin | :) |
| 14:46.21 | PulkoMandy | anyway, the GSoC orgs know that you are a student and not a super skilled software dev with 10+ year experience in the field |
| 14:46.37 | PulkoMandy | that is fine, you will have one or more mentors and other people helping you |
| 14:46.53 | tasin | PulkoMandy is there anyway I can contribute to FOSS right now |
| 14:46.59 | tasin | maybe to your org |
| 14:47.11 | tasin | just to get a taste of it |
| 14:47.25 | PulkoMandy | as gevaerts said, the very important thing is that you will be working remotely, so be sure to communicate with the mentors and other people and discuss everything (ideas, problems, ...) |
| 14:47.55 | PulkoMandy | that is the most tricky part in GSoC. Other than that it is very similar to an internship in any software development company |
| 14:47.56 | tasin | ok I'll keep that in mind |
| 14:48.10 | PulkoMandy | yes, you can contribute in many places |
| 14:48.14 | gevaerts | tasin: my usual recommendation is to try to fix some bugs in software you actually use |
| 14:48.14 | tasin | hmmm |
| 14:48.35 | PulkoMandy | we even have a "getting involved" page here if you want to have a closer look at Haiku: https://www.haiku-os.org/community/getting-involved |
| 14:49.24 | PulkoMandy | but again, I think it makes sense only if you are actually interested in the project. If you think writing a clone of a 15 years old operating system is a silly exercice, maybe look for something more interesting to you :) |
| 14:49.53 | gevaerts | Reporting bugs and submitting patches to various projects will also give you some idea of different working styles, which should help you pick what you prefer |
| 14:50.42 | PulkoMandy | yes there is that too, join some project's IRC channels or mailing lists, see what the community is like, and where you feel most welcome |
| 14:51.27 | tasin | but PulkoMandy there must be a reason why you are obsessed with your idea and are carrying on working on it for the last 15 years despite the fact that your org has been rejected fron GSoC for some time |
| 14:52.52 | PulkoMandy | well, I can comment only for myself, I find it an interesting learning experience, a valuable thing to put on my resumé (not everyone can say they debug video drivers for intel video chips), and it's the operating system I use at home |
| 14:52.55 | gevaerts | rejected != not accepted :) |
| 14:53.23 | gevaerts | There are *many* projects out there, and gsoc picks 100 to 150 of those |
| 14:53.23 | PulkoMandy | but I can understand other people have different interests, which is why I suggest looking for something suitable for you :) |
| 14:53.41 | tasin | ok |
| 14:55.11 | tasin | And how about my strategy to explore more about those orgs which have been successfully selected for the past 1-2 consecutive years? |
| 14:55.23 | tasin | I mean there are high chances it will be selected again |
| 14:55.32 | tasin | reputable orgs like Mozilla |
| 14:55.48 | tasin | is it a good idea to go about shortlisting orgs that way? |
| 14:56.30 | tasin | Obviously keeping in mind that I know the technologies that they use are familiar to me |
| 14:57.20 | gevaerts | remembers the time when Mozilla wasn't selected... |
| 14:58.00 | tasin | :( |
| 14:58.23 | tasin | like was just a lame example without any research |
| 14:58.25 | tasin | :) |
| 14:58.41 | gevaerts | It's hard to know, really. I'd assume that there's a fair chance that an organisation that was in for the past two years or so has a good chance to be selected again, but then the organisers explicitly like giving new orgs a chance |
| 14:59.12 | tasin | so it works out that way |
| 15:00.06 | tasin | but can one say with satisfaction that knowing C and C++ I will definitely find an org that uses that |
| 15:00.28 | gevaerts | I'll eat my hat if there's no C or C++ in there |
| 15:00.46 | gevaerts | I'll bake a nice hat specially for the occasion |
| 15:01.14 | tasin | you mean only C and C++ or is it coupled with other techs too? |
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| 15:02.01 | gevaerts | Define "tech". No project out there uses *just* a language and its standard library |
| 15:03.01 | tasin | gevearts : man could you suggest some languages and technology I should go and learn at once to be well prepared |
| 15:03.25 | tasin | stuff like version control system (Git etc.) or something |
| 15:03.29 | gevaerts | All of them? :) |
| 15:03.36 | tasin | which is like a must to survive |
| 15:03.49 | tasin | Damn :) |
| 15:03.51 | tasin | excuse me |
| 15:03.52 | gevaerts | Yes, version control is definitely required |
| 15:04.07 | tasin | every hardcore geek speaks like you |
| 15:04.32 | gevaerts | If you don't know yet which project you'll be working on, I'd say git is probably the best one to focus on |
| 15:04.53 | tasin | Eli the computer guy , Bucky Roberts ...... they speak the same language you speak :) |
| 15:04.56 | gevaerts | It's *really* hard to recommend things in general... |
| 15:05.01 | tasin | Oh git |
| 15:05.03 | tasin | ok |
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| 15:05.14 | tasin | and what else |
| 15:05.16 | jn__ | irc / mail / communication medium of the day, too :) |
| 15:05.39 | gevaerts | goes back to his earlier recommendation |
| 15:05.49 | tasin | ahem |
| 15:06.08 | gevaerts | Try to do some small things with various projects such as bugfixes. You'll find things to learn that way easily |
| 15:06.45 | jn__ | i support that recommendation |
| 15:06.48 | tasin | so GitHub should be ma search for sometime you mean? |
| 15:07.43 | jn__ | knowing github is probably quite useful, although not all orgs use it |
| 15:08.36 | tasin | ok |
| 15:09.50 | tasin | look I know C and C++ right now and I have a grasp of the basic data structures and algos. |
| 15:10.14 | tasin | what should be my move so that I have high chances to get selected nect year |
| 15:10.29 | tasin | ? |
| 15:10.50 | jn__ | what gevaerts said |
| 15:10.57 | tasin | what are orgs basically looking for in a candidate? |
| 15:11.08 | jn__ | "Try to do some small things with various projects such as bugfixes. You'll find things to learn that way easily" |
| 15:11.25 | tasin | why is it that many students don't get selected |
| 15:11.27 | tasin | ? |
| 15:11.36 | tasin | what is it that they are doing wrong? |
| 15:11.50 | gevaerts | Because there are only so many spots! |
| 15:12.08 | tasin | basically what differentiates a candidate that is selected and one who is not? |
| 15:12.36 | gevaerts | The first ones to get dropped are those who send in a one paragraph proposal and then don't communicate |
| 15:12.52 | PulkoMandy | tasin: as we said earlier, communication |
| 15:13.26 | PulkoMandy | a student may have great skills with languages and tools, if he makes a proposal unrelated to the org needs because he didn't ask anything and just invented its own stuff, it won't work |
| 15:13.28 | gevaerts | The main requirement at proposal time is convincing the organisation that you'll be able to achieve what you're proposing |
| 15:13.44 | PulkoMandy | likewise, if a student is selected, but then spend a month looking for a stupid bug without asking for help, it won't work |
| 15:14.14 | PulkoMandy | be open about what you know and what you don't, ask questions, try to help where you can, and things will solve by themselves |
| 15:14.50 | tasin | gevaerts : exactly my point how can I convince the mentors that I'm the guy |
| 15:15.31 | gevaerts | By showing in your proposal that you have a fairly good idea what the project involves |
| 15:15.36 | tasin | I mean the mentors don't know anything about my prior experience in open source and there is nothing to give credibility for my competency |
| 15:15.39 | jn__ | tasin: you've seen the student guide, i assume? |
| 15:15.41 | tasin | ok |
| 15:16.01 | jn__ | !studentguide | tasin |
| 15:16.01 | gsocbot | tasin: "studentguide" is http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ |
| 15:16.23 | gevaerts | Also by fixing those bugs I mentioned earlier. That way you suddenly *have* prior experience |
| 15:16.30 | tasin | well I am going through it now |
| 15:16.38 | tasin | thanks for the link though :) |
| 15:16.41 | tasin | ok |
| 15:17.02 | PulkoMandy | tasin: usually (and unfortunately) the selection process is quite obvious for us (not this many students I guess are interested in Haiku). There are some students who joined our IRC channel and mailing list, asked questions, made some small contributions to the project to show they can write some code and set up our development environment, and basically that's all we need |
| 15:17.25 | ZeekHuge | tasin: one thing you can do is just imagine what would be really exciting to work on (like what domain the project should touch and all ), search for an organization related to that. |
| 15:18.13 | ZeekHuge | GSoC covers networking , linux kernel , machine learning, android , front end , back end, communication ... and a lot more |
| 15:18.28 | ZeekHuge | so .. its mostly likely that you will find an org. |
| 15:18.39 | ZeekHuge | and then ... just follow your interest. |
| 15:18.39 | tasin | PulkoMandy could you reveal some figures of how many students does your org ( or any org) select to mentor in any year? |
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| 15:18.51 | PulkoMandy | !numapss | tasin |
| 15:18.55 | PulkoMandy | !numapps | tasin |
| 15:18.55 | gsocbot | tasin: "numapps" is 2016: 178/369 orgs; 1206/7543 proposals, 5107 students. 2015: 137/416 orgs; 1051/6409 props, 4425 students. 2014: 190/371 orgs; 1304/6313 props, 4420 students. 2013: 177/417 orgs; 1192/5999 props, 4144 students. 2012: 180/406 orgs; 1212/6685 props, 4258 students. 2011: 175/417 orgs; 1116/5474 props, 3731 students. 2010: 151/367 orgs; 1026/5539 props, 3464 students |
| 15:19.01 | PulkoMandy | here are some global stats |
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| 15:19.26 | PulkoMandy | so in 2016, 5107 students applied, and 1206 were selected |
| 15:20.11 | tasin | ok so 1206 students were successfully selected for all orgs, right? |
| 15:20.45 | tasin | so thats like <10 students per org on an avg |
| 15:21.06 | gevaerts | On average, yes, but that's probably not a useful number |
| 15:21.19 | PulkoMandy | !odds |
| 15:21.19 | gsocbot | PulkoMandy: "odds" is Odds, chances or probability really do not come into play for GSoC. Rambling off numbers or asking What are the odds of getting accepted... is really quite useless as one's acceptance is not dictated by luck or numbers, but by the quality of your proposal and your skills instead. |
| 15:21.28 | PulkoMandy | the gsocbot knows everything :) |
| 15:21.41 | tasin | :) |
| 15:21.53 | PulkoMandy | there are very small orgs and very large ones |
| 15:22.06 | PulkoMandy | orgs participating for the first time can usually accept only 1 student |
| 15:22.26 | PulkoMandy | orgs which participated for several years can have more, sometimes a lot more |
| 15:23.16 | tasin | ok so then the obvious mind tells one to target a large org which has been selected for consecutive years isn't it? |
| 15:23.17 | tasin | :) |
| 15:23.33 | gevaerts | Unless everyone thinks that |
| 15:24.07 | gevaerts | I'd say if you plan to write a bad proposal, target a new org :) |
| 15:25.21 | tasin | I'm sure no body deliberately writes a bad proposal |
| 15:25.24 | tasin | :) |
| 15:25.39 | PulkoMandy | you never know :> |
| 15:25.46 | gevaerts | You haven't read some of the proposals people write... |
| 15:26.09 | PulkoMandy | remembers how the "most desirable organization" was created |
| 15:26.25 | tasin | ? |
| 15:26.54 | PulkoMandy | a student sent an identical template proposal to all orgs, saying he wanted to "work with most desirable organisation" |
| 15:27.17 | PulkoMandy | (I think he was supposed to replace that by the org name in the template he copied from) |
| 15:27.29 | gevaerts | Something that used to be a thing (and probably still is to some extend) is to describe your own pet project in three lines and then send that to twenty random organisations hoping they'll accept it. Then the number of proposals got reduced so it at least got better |
| 15:27.42 | jn__ | !most desirable organization |
| 15:28.14 | PulkoMandy | don't know if there is a factoid for this one. We should add it maybe :) |
| 15:28.22 | jn__ | :) |
| 15:28.28 | gevaerts | That's also why numbers are misleading. Those *really* aren't your competition |
| 15:28.32 | tasin | I pitty the mentors of the org :) one who had to go through all of that |
| 15:29.37 | tasin | * tasin feels good when motivated |
| 15:29.50 | PulkoMandy | well, unfortunately a lot of the applications are of not that great quality. Because the students just give a try because "you never know", because they didn't even read the contest rules, because they didn't discuss their project with the org to get help with the proposal, etc |
| 15:30.12 | PulkoMandy | that makes it not very hard to get selected if you discuss things with the people from the org before/when writing your proposal |
| 15:30.27 | tasin | just to divert.... anyone from India here? |
| 15:30.39 | PulkoMandy | really, send a "hi, I want to work on this idea from your list" and people from the mailing lists will write most of the proposal for you |
| 15:30.56 | gevaerts | That's actually literally a FAQ :) |
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| 15:31.30 | tasin | ? :) |
| 15:31.55 | tasin | hi people |
| 15:32.04 | PulkoMandy | I wonder if we have a !india ? |
| 15:32.06 | PulkoMandy | !india |
| 15:32.10 | PulkoMandy | seems not :) |
| 15:32.35 | tasin | times will change , will you? |
| 15:32.55 | PulkoMandy | anyway, yes, GSoC is quite popular in India for some reason |
| 15:33.06 | PulkoMandy | I think the Google Open Source blog has some stats |
| 15:33.13 | PulkoMandy | and, I'm not from India |
| 15:33.38 | ZeekHuge_ | I am :) |
| 15:33.51 | tasin | you don't know what that $5500 means in here :) |
| 15:33.58 | gevaerts | Well, India is a large country, so I don't think lots of people from there being interested in gsoc is strange |
| 15:34.01 | tasin | hi |
| 15:34.33 | PulkoMandy | tasin: actually, some students did apply only for the first payment of $500 then disappeared in previous years |
| 15:34.37 | ZeekHuge_ | we have ##gsoc-india too. though not very active. |
| 15:34.55 | PulkoMandy | but IIRC Google announced some changes in that regard for this year, no details yet on how it will work for 2017 |
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| 15:35.35 | gevaerts | What *is* unusual about India is that many people from there are interested in whether other people also are. During gsoc season, we sometimes get several people per day asking if anyone is from India, but only one or two per year ask about other countries |
| 15:35.45 | tasin | dude every year in India 1.5 million students graduate as engineers so the number of participants is reflected |
| 15:36.39 | jn__ | gevaerts: i guess they want to share their experience with people they can easily relate to |
| 15:37.01 | ZeekHuge | +1 jn__ |
| 15:37.13 | tasin | Indians like to talk and talk a lot :) and their is fierce competition among students |
| 15:37.40 | tasin | to the extend that they lock themselves up in their dorm rooms and participate in things like GSoC |
| 15:37.54 | tasin | without their best friend knowing anything about it |
| 15:38.10 | PulkoMandy | GSoC is not about competition :) |
| 15:39.04 | tasin | for some reason people don't spread the news that there is an opportunity to earn in 3 months something which an avg IT professional gets per annum |
| 15:39.09 | tasin | sad but true |
| 15:39.10 | tasin | :( |
| 15:40.26 | tasin | you know man its wierd but very true most avg students here are so deprived that they use the $500 here to fill up the GRE application |
| 15:40.28 | tasin | :) |
| 15:40.48 | tasin | But whatever man I love all of it :) |
| 15:41.43 | ZeekHuge | I know some privileged friends who contribute to opensource and have been a part of GSoC. |
| 15:41.57 | ZeekHuge | I believe its about the joy. |
| 15:42.14 | ZeekHuge | though the facts might be true, |
| 15:42.22 | ZeekHuge | they are not the motivation.. |
| 15:42.34 | ZeekHuge | atleast not according to what i have seen. |
| 15:42.41 | jn__ | ZeekHuge: that doesn't change that for some people the money is important |
| 15:42.48 | tasin | are you from IIT ZeeHuge :) |
| 15:42.50 | tasin | ? |
| 15:43.04 | tasin | where u from? |
| 15:43.22 | ZeekHuge | .. you dont want to hear that ;) |
| 15:43.35 | ZeekHuge | but ... I still believe, its not the motivation. |
| 15:43.40 | ZeekHuge | it = money |
| 15:43.43 | ZeekHuge | but anyway. |
| 15:43.57 | ZeekHuge | tasin: Good luck :) |
| 15:44.23 | tasin | https://www.quora.com/How-did-you-spend-your-GSoC-stipend |
| 15:44.29 | ZeekHuge | hope you find and get into an interesting project. |
| 15:44.31 | tasin | read this :) funny |
| 15:44.41 | tasin | and you too young man |
| 15:45.09 | ZeekHuge | I wont. I have did a project last year. |
| 15:45.12 | ZeekHuge | Need to go |
| 15:45.14 | ZeekHuge | tadaa :) |
| 15:45.19 | tasin | oh |
| 15:45.21 | tasin | great |
| 15:45.27 | tasin | bye |
| 15:45.50 | tasin | Zubeen tolani? |
| 15:46.40 | ZeekHuge | tasin: yeah :) .. btw you can visit ##gsoc-india :) tadaa |
| 15:46.41 | tasin | will get in touch with ya soon |
| 15:46.51 | tasin | nice works |
| 15:47.01 | tasin | bye |
| 15:47.01 | tasin | gn |
| 15:50.21 | tasin | so returning back |
| 15:50.33 | tasin | where should I go and fix bugs? |
| 15:51.47 | jn__ | to one of the organisations that might participate in the next gsoc |
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| 15:53.24 | tasin | but how can I be sure some org will participate |
| 15:53.33 | tasin | and get selected |
| 15:53.47 | jn__ | you can't be sure |
| 15:53.50 | teepee | you can't (yet) |
| 15:54.02 | tasin | is it a good idea to go and fix bugs for orgs that participated last year |
| 15:54.14 | jn__ | sounds reasonable |
| 15:54.22 | tasin | can I get some credibilty for doing so |
| 15:54.23 | teepee | working with some org now still helps finding your way later |
| 15:57.34 | tasin | and is is recommended to use a linux distro while contributing to open-source? |
| 15:57.43 | tasin | or is windows good enough |
| 15:58.06 | teepee | I guess most open source programs are available on multiple platforms |
| 15:58.35 | tasin | ok |
| 15:58.36 | teepee | it might be that the linux environment is easier to set up |
| 15:58.52 | teepee | but there's likely lots of projects that work with and for windows too |
| 15:59.09 | tasin | I have fedora 24 installed on vmware virtual machine |
| 15:59.14 | tasin | will that do |
| 15:59.23 | jn__ | but then a virtual machine (with VirtualBox or VMWare) may be good enough (if you have enough RAM) |
| 15:59.40 | jn__ | ah, you wrote that already |
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| 17:14.33 | PulkoMandy | tasin: we can only give very generic answers here. If you work on the Linux kernel itself you can guess why Windows is probably a bad idea |
| 17:14.47 | PulkoMandy | if you work on the Python interpreter, that works on Windows just as well |
| 17:15.05 | PulkoMandy | so, at this point you have to pick one or another project and see with them for specific details |
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| 17:15.37 | PulkoMandy | and don't hesitate to have a look to multiple projects, to see how they differ and what they have in common |
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| 22:45.43 | TymonR | chrome, what do you mean? |
| 22:46.48 | chrome | TymonR, they have a link to their website (https://chat.zulip.org/#) but I can't seem to find chat rooms for this event |
| 22:47.13 | `w` | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:47.30 | chrome | how do I use that? |
| 22:48.05 | TymonR | just enter the site, make an account |
| 22:48.21 | chrome | alright, I did |
| 22:48.59 | TymonR | and talk to the users, you have list on right-side |
| 22:49.16 | TymonR | or find existing stream messaging |
| 22:53.58 | chrome | alright I think I found it, thx all! |
| 22:55.06 | TymonR | chrome, you're welcome :) |
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