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| 12:19.17 | mojca_ | We suspect that our student is doing another internship. There was a mail saying that if students did not participate in community bonding, we can ask the admins to remove the students from the program. |
| 12:20.01 | mojca_ | If our suspicion turns out to be true, what are the best/easiest options? Fail him at 1st midterm evaluation or should he be removed earlier? |
| 12:20.49 | Amaan | Have you already contacted the student about their inactivity during community bonding? |
| 12:25.42 | mojca_ | He was reasonably active during the community bonding. |
| 12:27.06 | mojca_ | And we talked for 2 hours to the student just yesterday, going through all the details etc. It was only today that a suspicion arised after seing his LinkedIn profile updated |
| 12:27.24 | mojca_ | and actually not seing any trace of code from the last two days |
| 12:27.45 | Amaan | My understanding was that GSoC requires 30+ hours as a commitment, not an exclusivity commitment |
| 12:28.44 | mojca_ | maybe, but we are 100% sure that this particular student cannot handle both |
| 12:29.48 | mojca_ | unless he has an 8-hour weekly workload at that company which is unlikely |
| 12:30.13 | mojca_ | we will ask him of course, but I wanted to ask about different scenarios |
| 12:30.18 | gevaerts | Things might have changed since I was actively involved so I can be wrong about this, but at this point I believe the next kick out moment would be first midterm |
| 12:30.28 | gevaerts | So you have a bit of time to be sure |
| 12:31.23 | Amaan | Note: There's 3 evaluations now (so technically not a "midterm", just the end of phase 1/3) |
| 12:31.48 | mojca_ | also, the email thread has 150+ emails, so I could not count him as not participating in community bonding |
| 12:32.07 | gevaerts | nods |
| 12:32.12 | mojca_ | but he will definitely fail if he proceeds with another internship |
| 12:33.06 | Amaan | mojca_: For context, btw - I'm taking a 3-month sabbatical from my day-job for GSoC. It's a rare scenario I realize, but it does happen, so it's something to keep in mind |
| 12:36.03 | braverock_wk | mojca_: we have had a few students successfully manage GSoC + work, but far more who attempt it (usually after not disclosing it, or taking an internship after applying to GSoC because they couldn't bear the waiting), and failed |
| 12:36.30 | braverock_wk | one of our success stories works for me full time, and another one is likely to work for me after he graduates |
| 12:36.41 | braverock_wk | but they are the rather rare exceptions |
| 12:36.56 | braverock_wk | and they both fully disclosed it, with a plan for how they were going to put in the hours |
| 12:39.54 | mojca_ | I understand there are exceptions, but this student is not one of them and he failed to disclose it. We are waiting for his answer at the moment. |
| 12:41.19 | mojca_ | One of the problems is that unless the student quits the job, I'm so sure of the failure that I would give this coding task to someone else. Then again, we have weekly milestones, so I guess we can definitely tell after two weeks what has (not) been done. |
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| 12:51.52 | mojca_ | thank you for advice in any case |
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| 12:55.12 | braverock_wk | mojca_: yes, good luick. I think you're doing the right thing in just really pushing the student to meet their milestones and communicating a lot about what they are worknig on |
| 12:55.31 | braverock_wk | maybe daily commits will be enough, if they actually put in the time |
| 12:55.49 | braverock_wk | one should be able to find 30-40 hours outside a full time job if they are really committed |
| 12:56.07 | gevaerts | Depends on the job |
| 12:56.37 | mojca_ | 8 hours at job, 8 hours working for GSOC, two hours to eat and commute, 6 hours to sleep? |
| 12:56.39 | gevaerts | You're talking 80 hours work per week, which can easily lead to not being to concentrate properly and doing shoddy work |
| 12:57.21 | mojca_ | co-mentor from the same country comes home at 9 pm |
| 12:57.44 | mojca_ | good luck combining that to another coding challenge :) |
| 12:57.58 | mojca_ | not saying that the student works until 9 pm, but still |
| 12:58.27 | mojca_ | we had a student who still had exams and lectures during the summer |
| 12:59.31 | safwan | I used to have 40 hours weekly job plus university before GSoc! |
| 13:00.01 | mojca_ | he did finish the project (which has an enormous impact in fact), but the fact remains that we could only dream how the summer would turn out if he actually spent all the time; at the end he spent 23 h per week on strictly GSOC, another 8 hours per week in unrelated work on our project |
| 13:01.09 | wz1000 | I don't think google will allow you to replace him with another student |
| 13:01.21 | wz1000 | so I don't see the point in preemptively kicking him out |
| 13:08.08 | mojca_ | I know he would not replace him with another student |
| 13:08.37 | mojca_ | but the other person who volunteered (and actually already started working) on the same project would do it in his free time |
| 13:09.23 | mojca_ | once that other person lands a job, he won't have that much time either |
| 13:09.46 | mojca_ | it's just stupid that two people work on the same project, so it makes no sense to let two people work on this |
| 13:10.00 | mojca_ | because someone's work would need to be thrown away |
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| 19:27.00 | r0bby | mojca_: You should have asked the student if they had other work obligations and if they did -- they should not have been selected imho. Do you want quality code, or shoddy work because the student is tired? There are now 3 evals -- so the first eval is coming up soonish -- and you have the opportunity to remove them and save Google some money in the end -- doesn't go against you, or your org...sometimes students just don't work out |
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| 19:33.49 | braverock_wk | mojca_: we don't generally have students working on parallel implementations of the same functionality, but some projects do things like that as a way of creating one or more working prototypes of some new functionality. I prefer to break projects into truly standalone things, as I think it is more fair to the students if their work has a higher chance of getting integrated into the main branches |
| 19:36.22 | rzumer1 | I feel like it is a bit disrespectful to start judging someone's productivity after 2 days |
| 19:36.25 | r0bby | mojca_: you also have the option to re-scope the project -- the original plan is almost never the final plan -- sometimes it is -- I mentored one student where the project was open-ended -- so long as the student did work and regularly submitted PRs, I let him do his thing |
| 19:38.33 | r0bby | but at the same time rzumer1 -- the community bonding period should catch stuff like this |
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