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| 10:40.05 | l403 | does anyone use the CoPilot navigation software? |
| 10:41.36 | l403 | I did not backup maps config filies and now it wont start. I have 3 CD for managing the maps and stuff, but is for Win only |
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| 10:42.19 | l403 | rmoravcik: cau |
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| 19:41.29 | SPucki | Hi there! |
| 19:45.08 | SPucki | Some time ago i installed familiar 0.8.4 on my IPAQ 3850. Now i wanted to find some updated packages and it seem like the familiar project and opie seem to be nearly dead!? Can somebody tell me, which distro would be fine for my old ipaq? |
| 19:47.16 | goxboxlive | SPucki: i think Angstrom should do the job. Angstrom is p 2 date, but it misses Opie AFIAR |
| 19:48.28 | SPucki | goxboxlive: No need to have Opie, any other friendly Desktop Environment should do! |
| 19:48.44 | goxboxlive | Ok then Angstrom it is |
| 19:49.13 | goxboxlive | http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/ |
| 19:54.22 | SPucki | Seems to be kind of hard to find information. I cannot find a download or any information for the ipaq 38xx series :-/ |
| 19:56.11 | SPucki | I can't be the only one with an ipaq 3850, or am i? |
| 20:00.11 | bluelightning | goxboxlive: angstrom now supports Opie :) |
| 20:00.39 | bluelightning | unfortunately h3800 series still lacks support in the 2.6 kernel though AFAIK :( |
| 20:00.42 | SPucki | bluelightning: Yep, but it does not support my ipaq 3850.... |
| 20:00.50 | bluelightning | I have an h3870 and h3850 so that also bothers me |
| 20:01.03 | bluelightning | unfortunately I am not a kernel hacker so I can't really do much about it |
| 20:02.28 | SPucki | bluelightning: What are you running on your ipaqs? |
| 20:02.40 | bluelightning | old versions of Familiar |
| 20:02.46 | bluelightning | there is no alternative really |
| 20:03.00 | bluelightning | on h38xx/h39xx that is |
| 20:03.07 | bluelightning | I have an h2200 here that is running Angstrom |
| 20:03.58 | SPucki | And which version of opie are you running on geh 38xx/39xx? |
| 20:04.16 | bluelightning | well, without significant work the only version available is 1.2.1 |
| 20:04.46 | bluelightning | and as I am about to release 1.2.4 in a matter of minutes that is getting a bit out of date :) |
| 20:05.23 | SPucki | Hui! Ok, tell me where to find it and how to update :-)) |
| 20:05.40 | bluelightning | the release is source only unfortunately |
| 20:06.09 | SPucki | ok, so i have to build a crossdev environment. |
| 20:06.18 | bluelightning | yes |
| 20:06.24 | SPucki | Which gcc, binutils, libc versions? |
| 20:07.11 | bluelightning | there are a couple of options: (1) update what's in familiar-build; (2) hack 2.4 kernel support back into current OpenEmbedded; (3) do it all by hand |
| 20:07.40 | bluelightning | any should be fine but I strongly recommend checking out options 1 and 2 first |
| 20:09.41 | bluelightning | actually thinking about it, a few things have been updated in Opie 1.2.4 to support the 2.6 kernel rather than 2.4 |
| 20:09.46 | bluelightning | so there may be issues there |
| 20:10.00 | *** join/#handhelds gremlin[it] (n=gremlin@217.201.192.27) |
| 20:10.07 | bluelightning | I wonder if something could be done to improve the 2.6 kernel situation on h3800 series |
| 20:10.13 | bluelightning | gremlin[it]: ah, just the person :) |
| 20:10.16 | bluelightning | how are you? |
| 20:10.41 | gremlin[it] | bluelightning damn ... i'm not invisible !!!! :P |
| 20:10.51 | gremlin[it] | yes i could be your man ... |
| 20:10.52 | bluelightning | heh |
| 20:11.14 | bluelightning | we would all very much love to have modern Linux working on our h3800s.. :D |
| 20:11.28 | bluelightning | any chance of you having some time to work on that again? |
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| 20:12.38 | gremlin[it] | sincerelly really don't know ... my h3800 is like a brick at now :( ... |
| 20:13.08 | bluelightning | hmm ok |
| 20:13.49 | bluelightning | I wonder if I should offer a free h3800 for hacking and see if anyone wants to work on it |
| 20:13.57 | SPucki | Hmpf. Only thing i could do would be testing :-/ I'd not like to give my ipaq aqay... |
| 20:14.51 | gremlin[it] | mhhh |
| 20:15.11 | gremlin[it] | how many people and developers we are ? |
| 20:16.25 | bluelightning | gremlin[it]: well, at least two users here :) |
| 20:16.55 | bluelightning | for developers, I don't know... so far I have heard of at least 3 people who were supposedly working on h3600 arch support in 2.6 |
| 20:17.10 | SPucki | Yeah, and normally i would call me developer, but regarding c/c++ and arm i would not even call me 1/2 developer ;) |
| 20:17.29 | bluelightning | SPucki: well, I code Delphi for a living, but in my spare time I do C/C++ |
| 20:17.48 | bluelightning | only user space though, my last foray into the kernel was not particularly successful |
| 20:17.59 | SPucki | bluelightning: LoL! Me too, exactly ;) |
| 20:18.04 | bluelightning | cool :) |
| 20:18.08 | gremlin[it] | mhhh 3 people on h3600 ??? |
| 20:18.18 | gremlin[it] | we can meet ... |
| 20:18.23 | bluelightning | gremlin[it]: that's over the years though |
| 20:18.41 | bluelightning | yann: were you one of them? I can't recall |
| 20:18.44 | SPucki | Well, you can visit me for a beer or two ;) |
| 20:18.54 | bluelightning | SPucki: where are you located? |
| 20:18.59 | SPucki | Munich |
| 20:19.03 | gremlin[it] | ahhh i know that after Jamey and before me about no other touch the code :s |
| 20:19.05 | gremlin[it] | SPucki where are u ? |
| 20:19.14 | gremlin[it] | good beer :) |
| 20:19.25 | gremlin[it] | i mean on net by the way (for work) ... |
| 20:19.55 | bluelightning | I'm in the UK now so at least the times line up a bit better than when I was in NZ :) |
| 20:20.21 | SPucki | It's Oktoberfest time atm.... So not only good beer, but LOTS of beer, too ; |
| 20:20.23 | gremlin[it] | i'll be here more frequent ... and i hope be able to manage a "team" at least 2/3 people to do some work ... that could be a great chance to do some work instead of a single people .. |
| 20:21.13 | bluelightning | ah no, sorry, yann was working on h3900 |
| 20:21.27 | bluelightning | though I would very much like to see that also 100% working :) |
| 20:21.56 | bluelightning | SPucki: I hoped to go to the Munich beer festival this year but never got organised |
| 20:21.58 | bluelightning | next year hopefully |
| 20:21.59 | SPucki | Hm, i could buy another device, but i simply like my old h3800... |
| 20:22.14 | bluelightning | SPucki: well, maybe we can sort things out :) |
| 20:23.31 | SPucki | bluelightning: For me it's not so exciting... 70% drunk, 20% aggressive, 20% criminal, beer cost at about 500% of the normal.... And if you can go there every year, every day.... |
| 20:23.35 | *** join/#handhelds dijenerate (n=dijenera@72.22.132.167) |
| 20:23.48 | SPucki | bluelightning: But if you come around one day, just let me know ;) |
| 20:24.16 | bluelightning | SPucki: yeah I can imagine... still I would like to go at least once :) |
| 20:24.24 | bluelightning | just to say I went, if nothing else |
| 20:24.37 | gremlin[it] | guys a question what Linux image are u running on yours h3800 at now ? |
| 20:24.39 | SPucki | bluelightning: It's not so bad, at least it's very big ;) |
| 20:25.40 | SPucki | familiar v0.8.4, kernel 2.4.19-rmk6-pxa1-hh37 |
| 20:26.02 | bluelightning | same here |
| 20:26.14 | bluelightning | though actually my device(s) are not here with me in the UK |
| 20:26.37 | gremlin[it] | mhh ok ... |
| 20:26.39 | SPucki | Are they on vacation? |
| 20:26.39 | bluelightning | I may need to acquire another from ebay :) |
| 20:27.01 | bluelightning | SPucki: they're stuck home with flat batteries in NZ, so not reall :) |
| 20:27.06 | bluelightning | really |
| 20:27.29 | SPucki | i ordered some new batteries for the ipaq and the jacket. |
| 20:27.51 | SPucki | I wanted to try to build navit for my ipaq. |
| 20:29.54 | bluelightning | yeah navit looks kind of cool |
| 20:30.00 | bluelightning | haven't tried it yet though |
| 20:31.01 | SPucki | We are trying to get the wince version running again. But the developer who worked on it has left the project - lack of time :( |
| 20:32.06 | bluelightning | ah so you are involved with the navit project? |
| 20:32.23 | SPucki | At least a little bit atm. |
| 20:32.36 | bluelightning | great :) |
| 20:32.56 | SPucki | But it's just some weeks that i started to look a bit at the sources. |
| 20:32.56 | bluelightning | the company I work for is in the GIS industry, so it is somewhat close to my heart |
| 20:33.51 | SPucki | So navit and the openstreetmaps project could be interesting for you! |
| 20:34.05 | bluelightning | yes indeed |
| 20:34.24 | bluelightning | I mentioned openstreetmap to my boss a while ago, he seemed interested |
| 20:34.33 | bluelightning | ok, for 30 pounds I can have an h3850, or for 45 I can have an h3870 |
| 20:34.49 | SPucki | Hm, that sounds interesting! |
| 20:37.04 | SPucki | Where do you get them for that price? |
| 20:37.10 | bluelightning | ebay |
| 20:37.19 | bluelightning | (.co.uk) |
| 20:38.03 | SPucki | hmpf. I would like to get one with integrated bluetooth support. |
| 20:40.12 | bluelightning | the h3870 |
| 20:41.20 | SPucki | Or maybe a "bigger" one, which is supported with 2.6 kernel versions. |
| 20:42.21 | SPucki | h3970/h3975 |
| 20:46.03 | bluelightning | that series has issues as well, although the basic stuff works |
| 20:46.13 | bluelightning | ie, no sound for one |
| 20:46.27 | bluelightning | and AFAIR expansion jacket support isn't working |
| 20:52.46 | bluelightning | well, I'll put out the call for volunteers and hold of purchasing until then |
| 20:57.37 | SPucki | Hm. I just cannot believe that there are still so few manufacturers who use gnu/linux. Why do they still f**k around with wince? tststs |
| 21:01.29 | bluelightning | it has become "industry standard" |
| 21:02.02 | bluelightning | although with things like LiMo, LiPS and other industry-led groups I would expect Linux usage to increase |
| 21:02.29 | bluelightning | on mobile devices that is |
| 21:02.43 | bluelightning | at least Nokia has the n8xx devices |
| 21:03.03 | bluelightning | and Intel just bought OpenedHand :) |
| 21:03.07 | SPucki | Well, at least more and more embedded systems are running linux. Navigation systems etc. |
| 21:04.39 | SPucki | btw., is google android a completely new system or is it based on an already existing operating system? |
| 21:10.42 | bluelightning | SPucki: I'm not quite sure... I haven't looked into it much |
| 21:22.20 | *** join/#handhelds yansa (n=yans@89.108.216.232) |
| 21:27.35 | yann | bluelightning: yes, I should find some time to finish that work :) |
| 21:28.00 | bluelightning | yann: that would be awesome if you could :) |
| 21:28.47 | yann | just have to allocate time - for now my little spare time is allocated to hacking a new feature into git |
| 21:29.47 | yann | I'll have to finish that h3900 stuff while my unit is still usable, the battery life is so much shorter now already... |
| 21:31.13 | SPucki | new batteries aren't that expensive ;) |
| 21:34.08 | bluelightning | SPucki: ah yes, but replacing them is not that straightforward |
| 21:35.21 | SPucki | It can't be so much harder on the h3900 series than on the h3800 series.... |
| 21:36.07 | SPucki | You simply need one that is not too big. |
| 21:38.37 | yann | yes, have to find a suitable model |
| 21:41.00 | SPucki | 19 Euro on ebay. |
| 21:42.07 | SPucki | I hope i get my batteries in a few days. I can tell you where i bought them, when they are ok. |
| 22:00.15 | yann | ok - that's still a bit expensive, though :) |
| 22:01.35 | yann | SPucki: and, speaking of 2.6 on h39xx, we're not precisely there yet :) |
| 22:01.44 | mzb_d800 | for those interested: |
| 22:01.55 | mzb_d800 | http://mojo.handhelds.org/ |
| 22:02.28 | yann | I have a couple of patches to make it boot, a owm driver, but I still need to glue things into a proper battery driver |
| 22:03.09 | yann | well, and to publish all the patches, too... |
| 22:06.15 | SPucki | yann: If you get me a 2.6 linux distro for my 3850, i will buy you some new batteries :-) |
| 22:06.27 | yann | :) |
| 22:07.24 | yann | h38 and h39 are not exactly the same (although very similar) ... |
| 22:08.14 | SPucki | yann: Do you know some rc heli pilots? Especially for the smaller helicopters lipo batteries are often used! My lipo batteries for my heli are a bit too big for a PDA, but maybe you find someone with used lipo batteries, which should be still good enough for your ipaq! |
| 22:09.33 | yann | ah, didn't know that - don't have such pilots in my address book, though |
| 22:13.29 | mzb_d800 | bluelightning: ^^ mojo ^^ |
| 22:14.39 | mzb_d800 | the current drawn from those batteries would usually mean that they'd be _very_ tired by the time an rc guy lets go of it ;) |
| 22:15.09 | mzb_d800 | (and they can often get charged at well beyond normal spec) |
| 22:15.43 | bluelightning | mzb_d800: yes I've seen that, I have to admit I'm a little unclear on what devices it supports and whether software such as Opie is applicable to it |
| 22:16.18 | mzb_d800 | I can't say there are a lot of details available |
| 22:16.32 | mzb_d800 | I guess it's one of those "watch this space" things |
| 22:17.04 | bluelightning | hmm |
| 22:17.20 | bluelightning | I will continue watching :) |
| 22:17.46 | bluelightning | anyway how are you mzb_d800? |
| 22:18.28 | mzb_d800 | not too bad ... getting a bit tired as packing house // mowing lawn // etc ... moving house on Friday ... need to hand keys back on Monday ... *sigh* |
| 22:18.45 | mzb_d800 | and you? |
| 22:20.12 | SPucki | mzb_d800: I know a lot about batteries AND a lot about rc guys ;) And the really good guys let go of their batteries, because they often cannot deliver the current they need anymore. Or, because the cells no longer match (lipos are nearly always used in packs). And if a modern lipo cell has left 70% of its capacity it's rather useless for the pilots. But an ipaq will be happy for the next years ;) |
| 22:20.38 | mzb_d800 | ok ... sounds fair |
| 22:20.54 | mzb_d800 | still doesn't sound ideal |
| 22:21.25 | SPucki | Well, it's the only option left, when 19Euro is too expensive :-o |
| 22:21.45 | bluelightning | mzb_d800: great... went to bletchley park last weekend, very interesting |
| 22:22.40 | flypiper | mzb_d800, you keep pushin the "mojo" version..... will that work for armV4 netwinders and sa1100 units? |
| 22:23.10 | flypiper | 3600,3700,3800 ipaq's |
| 22:23.17 | mzb_d800 | don't know anything about it ... I'm just putting it forward so that it |
| 22:23.31 | flypiper | I think it's armV5 |
| 22:23.34 | mzb_d800 | 's understood that #handhelds is not dead |
| 22:23.53 | mzb_d800 | bluelightning: sounds pretty interesting |
| 22:24.06 | mzb_d800 | SPucki: I get your point ;) |
| 22:24.46 | SPucki | <@mzb_d800> 's understood that #handhelds is not dead | -> but we are working on it! |
| 22:24.52 | SPucki | :-D |
| 22:25.03 | mzb_d800 | heh |
| 22:25.44 | SPucki | sorry - meant "AND we are working on it" :)) |
| 22:25.58 | mzb_d800 | sounds better :) |
| 22:26.10 | mzb_d800 | (#handhelds killer!;P) |
| 22:26.53 | SPucki | "You boot that damn 2.6 kernel - or i'll remove your memory!!" |
| 22:27.14 | mzb_d800 | bluelightning: in other news: blew up a 22" LCD last week ... should be getting it back next week. Having a nice little argument with the guy who sold me some ITX boxes (looked like dragged from back of truck). |
| 22:27.46 | bluelightning | mzb_d800: I hope it was spectacular :) |
| 22:27.54 | mzb_d800 | no |
| 22:28.07 | bluelightning | what happened? |
| 22:28.20 | mzb_d800 | I'd have liked to have seem some bluelightning, but nothing special ;) |
| 22:28.27 | mzb_d800 | err... power outage |
| 22:29.24 | mzb_d800 | strangely, I've got 3x LCD's here ... one is double-filtered, 2nd single-filtered, 3rd unfiltered power ... and wouldn't you know it ... the 2nd went. |
| 22:29.49 | mzb_d800 | powered on but unable to view image, menus not working, etc |
| 22:30.07 | mzb_d800 | (2nd and 3rd are even the same brand) |
| 22:30.11 | SPucki | maybe it's out of order :-) |
| 22:30.18 | mzb_d800 | heh |
| 22:30.20 | mzb_d800 | hmm |
| 22:31.30 | mzb_d800 | oh well ... using the 24" most of the time these days, and the 22" is covered by 3yr warranty |
| 22:32.15 | mzb_d800 | now, it turns out that the g/f has decided that she needs a new phone (she's raped the old one) which means I get one too ... |
| 22:32.38 | mzb_d800 | are there any recommendations for a new device these days? |
| 22:33.01 | bluelightning | depends what you want I guess |
| 22:33.03 | mzb_d800 | (3G // 3.5G might be an idea) |
| 22:33.09 | mzb_d800 | email :) |
| 22:33.11 | mzb_d800 | sms |
| 22:33.14 | bluelightning | myself, I tend to have cheap phones that just do calls and text |
| 22:33.27 | mzb_d800 | I'm still on a RAZR |
| 22:33.37 | bluelightning | a guy at work just bought a Samsung Omnia, he likes it |
| 22:33.43 | bluelightning | although the GPS is a bit dodgy |
| 22:33.54 | mzb_d800 | but I can see the use of email ... or at least something with programmable bluetooth (java) |
| 22:34.21 | bluelightning | the Omnia has just about every feature you could wish for I think |
| 22:34.27 | SPucki | You could try one of the chinese iphone clones ;) |
| 22:34.32 | bluelightning | apart from "doesn't run Windows Mobile" :) |
| 22:35.02 | SPucki | But the omnia is really a nice phone! And it's faster than these iphones.... |
| 22:35.10 | mzb_d800 | I'd love something with Unix :) |
| 22:35.26 | bluelightning | I'd love to be able to recommend the OpenMoko Freerunner, but honestly after all this time as a phone it's still lacking |
| 22:36.19 | mzb_d800 | hmm ... Omnia would be pushing it (price-wise) I think ... but low enough to be a contender (if I heard the g/f's words right) |
| 22:36.57 | mzb_d800 | mind you, at that price I could probably (almost?) buy a iPhone 3G (outright) |
| 22:37.06 | SPucki | hm. New g/f wouldn't be so expensive, right? |
| 22:37.20 | bluelightning | mzb_d800: you can buy an iPhone without a contract? |
| 22:37.50 | mzb_d800 | I think I've seen them |
| 22:38.06 | bluelightning | myself, I see the iPhone as the complete antithesis of open source... even Windows Mobile lets you run your own software |
| 22:38.12 | bluelightning | (at least) |
| 22:38.25 | bluelightning | although I admit it's super shiny |
| 22:39.00 | SPucki | but it's still buggy, afair. |
| 22:39.03 | mzb_d800 | http://goeasyonline.cart.net.au/cat/2031956.html?gclid=CMKJ65rKhJYCFQgIbAodynP0EQ |
| 22:39.24 | mzb_d800 | bluelightning: yeah, but unix ... at least I could script |
| 22:39.51 | bluelightning | mzb_d800: do you get a shell by default? don't you need to jailbreak it first? |
| 22:40.23 | mzb_d800 | can't remember ... long time since I've done it ... but you're probably right |
| 22:42.55 | mzb_d800 | hmm .... not sure the omnia is what I'm looking for (for the price) |
| 22:43.20 | mzb_d800 | too much of one thing, not enough of the other ;) |
| 22:44.02 | mzb_d800 | hmm ... but still not sure ;) |
| 22:44.51 | mzb_d800 | bluelightning: what's funky about the GPS? |
| 22:45.18 | mzb_d800 | 5MP .. hmm |
| 22:47.31 | mzb_d800 | Touch Diamond 4G au$100 more expensive :| |
| 22:57.11 | mzb_d800 | "head of the WinMo class" |
| 22:57.24 | mzb_d800 | but not triband 3G ... not sure if that concerns me |
| 23:01.16 | SPucki | 3G would be a must for me |
| 23:02.46 | mzb_d800 | non standard screen resolution |
| 23:12.42 | mzb_d800 | "battery life is far from wonderful" |
| 23:19.10 | bluelightning | mzb_d800: reception is poor apparently, although I understand that's a problem with a lot of phones with built-in GPS |
| 23:19.21 | mzb_d800 | ah |
| 23:19.43 | mzb_d800 | still ... nice option ... thanks for the suggestion |
| 23:19.43 | bluelightning | also, on my colleague's device the GPS was rather flaky until he hard-reset it |
| 23:20.04 | mzb_d800 | (as much as I hate the idea of a windows device after all this time!) |
| 23:22.48 | mzb_d800 | hopefully the i910 will be out before Alicia is ready, and if all goes well that will bring the i900 down in price (a little) |
| 23:23.15 | mzb_d800 | in addition, our camera has been slowly dying, so I might be able to pull a swifty there ;) |
| 23:24.04 | mzb_d800 | "Poor sunlight legibility" |
| 23:25.02 | bluelightning | yes my colleague also mentioned that |
| 23:27.04 | SPucki | Good night guys. My bed is calling.... |
| 23:27.10 | mzb_d800 | gnite |
| 23:36.11 | *** join/#handhelds bluelightning (n=blueligh@pdpc/supporter/active/bluelightning) |
| 23:40.02 | bluelightning | night all |