| 00:00.03 | DocScrutinizer | nuttin |
| 00:01.11 | DocScrutinizer | I'm rather sure I had it ;-) and I can't find it anymore, though I'm also sure I haven't rm'd it |
| 00:01.21 | javispedro | updatedb? ;) |
| 00:01.34 | DocScrutinizer | runs each night at 22:15 |
| 00:02.25 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, did yours leave some uncompressed stuff? |
| 00:02.55 | javispedro | not in $PWD |
| 00:03.11 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, that's what I wondered |
| 00:04.17 | DocScrutinizer | maybe $TMP |
| 00:05.47 | javispedro | /tmp ;) |
| 00:05.48 | javispedro | nope |
| 00:05.51 | javispedro | nothing |
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| 00:08.41 | DocScrutinizer | I bet I managed this sucker not only erased the uncompressed files but itself as well |
| 00:11.36 | DocScrutinizer | should run it again, with a while cp -la . ../keepit/; do :;done, and stop it halfway and get a lsof of it |
| 00:13.17 | DocScrutinizer | or simply nuke 2 unlink for the while thing via LD_PRELOAD |
| 00:13.26 | DocScrutinizer | whole* |
| 00:13.51 | javispedro | I doubt it deletes itself |
| 00:13.54 | DocScrutinizer | wonder what aegis would think about such hacks |
| 00:14.00 | javispedro | what do you want to do? get the FIASCO? |
| 00:14.19 | DocScrutinizer | just see what's there, get it all, yeah |
| 00:14.32 | javispedro | run it without any N950 plugged in and look at /tmp |
| 00:14.44 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 00:16.04 | Termana | morning |
| 00:16.13 | javispedro | morning, Termana. |
| 00:20.08 | SpeedEvil | I wonder if the RDA ones are different |
| 00:20.21 | SpeedEvil | I was sort-of-pondering running tar | over them |
| 00:20.45 | javispedro | comparing dpkg -l lists would be a quick start |
| 00:20.52 | DocScrutinizer | good question |
| 00:20.57 | javispedro | this very same aegis that forces us to package things also forces nokia to do so =) |
| 00:23.51 | javispedro | ponders whether continuing with portmap now that i know that aegis could decide to selfdestruct say in the middle of a call |
| 00:24.50 | DocScrutinizer | meh, found it |
| 00:25.00 | DocScrutinizer | nfc what I did, maybe typo |
| 00:25.36 | DocScrutinizer | find did the trick |
| 00:25.51 | DocScrutinizer | now that I see it, locate of course also shows it ;-P |
| 00:27.00 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: yeah, this selfdestruct thing is particularly nasty |
| 00:28.13 | DocScrutinizer | you never know when any arbitrary app will execute a function that makes aegis go bollocks |
| 00:28.59 | javispedro | btw another thought |
| 00:29.04 | javispedro | screenbpp is 16 |
| 00:29.08 | DocScrutinizer | damn, this *is* a real win for user protection |
| 00:33.42 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I'm wondering since ~8h if *anything* - except wallpaper changer apps - will be actually implementable on this platform. And if so, then if I like the hoops you'd have to jump to establish that |
| 00:35.53 | javispedro | well, I have still hope. |
| 00:36.32 | DocScrutinizer | your timebomb experience pretty much extinguished all my hope |
| 00:36.51 | javispedro | yeah, it worries me too. |
| 00:37.21 | javispedro | but maybe in the next months this clears up. |
| 00:37.44 | DocScrutinizer | well, then maybe the N950 will collect dust until then |
| 00:43.49 | DocScrutinizer | the longer I think about it, the more I fell like it doesn't make any sense to me to invest time in the whole thing |
| 00:43.59 | DocScrutinizer | feel* |
| 00:53.14 | GAN900 | javispedro, 16. . . . |
| 00:54.56 | DocScrutinizer | 16? |
| 00:54.56 | javispedro | which makes me think that the n9 will also be 16 (95% sure) |
| 00:55.05 | javispedro | display depth |
| 00:55.09 | DocScrutinizer | aaah |
| 00:55.13 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 00:55.39 | SpeedEvil | There are also wierd RGBW OLEDs |
| 00:56.05 | DocScrutinizer | gets managed by driver chip afaik |
| 00:56.09 | javispedro | the N9 is PenTile (RGBG or sth like that) |
| 00:56.35 | DocScrutinizer | but might open for a possibility to have a larger dynamic range the 16 |
| 00:56.41 | javispedro | but as DocScrutinizer the chip handles that, from sw it is all 16. |
| 00:58.24 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, pentile - the BIG hoax, the ultimate cheating. RGBG == 4 pixels X-P |
| 00:59.42 | DocScrutinizer | that's why developers "must not use any 1 pixel wide lines or fonts" |
| 01:01.54 | javispedro | exactly. |
| 01:02.18 | DocScrutinizer | probably those who think a pentile AMOLED screen is better than a proper LCD are those who also always thought 800*480 is a waste and 320*240 was just fine and good enough |
| 01:02.47 | javispedro | well |
| 01:02.53 | javispedro | I do think 320*240 is mostly enough for a c-ts |
| 01:02.56 | SpeedEvil | It's not that simple |
| 01:03.03 | javispedro | can't really use the extended resolution for anything |
| 01:03.10 | javispedro | other than photo viewing maybe |
| 01:03.18 | SpeedEvil | The eye does not have good colour resolution. |
| 01:03.30 | SpeedEvil | It has good luminance resolution |
| 01:03.58 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, we probably all know the "retionale" behind PenTile |
| 01:04.04 | DocScrutinizer | rationale* |
| 01:05.51 | DocScrutinizer | but then I insist in my N900 having a resolution of 1600*720 |
| 01:07.08 | DocScrutinizer | as the eye's color resolution is equally low on LCD |
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| 01:08.57 | DocScrutinizer | and if pentile allows to count R G B G as four pixel, then I dunno why on LCD we can't count R G B as three pixel |
| 01:10.08 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, smoother text. |
| 01:10.56 | javispedro | smoother 72pt text because of c-ts |
| 01:11.13 | DocScrutinizer | actually watching photos or movies probably is the usecase least sensitive and most forgiving to this kind of cheating |
| 01:11.22 | javispedro | oh, it is |
| 01:11.33 | javispedro | this reminds me |
| 01:11.40 | javispedro | is it me or do movies look better on n950? |
| 01:11.50 | DocScrutinizer | seems they do |
| 01:12.10 | javispedro | if I compare the same movie on n900 and n950 seems that I can see mpeg artifacts more clearly on n900 |
| 01:12.13 | javispedro | but this makes no sense. |
| 01:12.43 | DocScrutinizer | copies a DrHouse mp4 to N950... in a few minutes heads off to TV then, checking AV-out quality |
| 01:12.48 | javispedro | also, n950 movie player is utterly slow. a 480p movie that plays flawless on n900 sttutters a bit on n950 |
| 01:13.17 | DocScrutinizer | YAY |
| 01:13.19 | javispedro | and 720p (unplayable on n900) is very very very very choppy on n950 despite dsp codec being capable of 720p technically |
| 01:13.35 | javispedro | my bet is that they're not using the same codec and thus the differences |
| 01:13.38 | javispedro | have to see that. |
| 01:15.01 | DocScrutinizer | I'd like to have raster (aka Carsten) strip down the N950 |
| 01:16.07 | DocScrutinizer | though he's another 320*200 protagonist, his analytics of video performance are sharper than anybody else's I'd know of |
| 01:17.23 | DocScrutinizer | alas it's a bit far to .kr, to visit him and show him the device |
| 01:17.48 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen raster |
| 01:17.56 | infobot | raster <raster@enlightenment/developer/raster> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 9d 18h 56m 25s ago, saying: 'and that means.. screen, opengl-es2, etc. etc.'. |
| 01:19.22 | javispedro | lol, another webos convert |
| 01:19.33 | DocScrutinizer | nah, for sure not |
| 01:19.58 | javispedro | was ashamed when I had the council cloak while wandering around #webos ;) |
| 01:20.12 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 01:21.56 | DocScrutinizer | I'm still quite happy with my obsolete cloak, wouldn't want to change it for council or whatever |
| 01:33.00 | MohammadAG | I want a meego/harmattan/confused/user cloak |
| 01:33.05 | ieatlint | i want an openmoko cloak |
| 01:33.52 | javispedro | I want a milkyway/sol/earth one |
| 01:34.24 | SpeedEvil | can't quite see his OM from here. |
| 01:35.43 | javispedro | either way, Word of God says this OS is named "meego-nokia" |
| 01:35.56 | javispedro | because that's what the SDK "Maemo-version" package's been replaced with |
| 01:35.59 | javispedro | "meego-nokia-version" |
| 01:36.48 | javispedro | ponders whether creating entirely different packaging _or_ the more interesting alternative just do another hackish set of #if MAEMO_VERSION > 5 checks in current packaging |
| 01:37.29 | javispedro | one single source package that builds from chinook to harmattan, wouldn't that be awesome. |
| 01:38.11 | javispedro | can already hear the screams of panic from those that say you should redo the program UI entirely for every platform |
| 01:39.49 | SpeedEvil | Can you 'legally' require gtk? |
| 01:39.59 | javispedro | who is saying anything about gtk |
| 01:40.08 | javispedro | ;) |
| 01:40.17 | SpeedEvil | Gods Tool Kit! |
| 01:42.02 | javispedro | MAEMO_VERSION := $(shell if [ -f /etc/maemo_version ]; then cut -d"." -f1 /etc/maemo_version; elif [ -f /etc/meego-nokia_version ]; then echo 6; else echo 0; fi) |
| 01:42.03 | javispedro | mwahahahaha |
| 01:59.18 | ieatlint | i don't have an /etc/meego-nokia_version on my phone |
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| 02:30.30 | javispedro | oh, fun. |
| 02:30.44 | javispedro | ieatlint: SDK |
| 02:30.55 | javispedro | the weird screen resolution introduces, you guessed it |
| 02:31.03 | javispedro | alignment problems =) |
| 02:31.24 | SpeedEvil | Harmattan is chaotic neutral? |
| 02:32.42 | ieatlint | and aegis is lawful evil |
| 02:34.03 | javispedro | no, but 800x2 scanlines meant they started on very nicely aligned memory. |
| 02:41.51 | javispedro | for reference n950 is 854x480 |
| 02:42.31 | javispedro | and if you want to center an image, 854/2 = 427, which is not even 4byte-aligned |
| 02:42.39 | javispedro | so you get crashes. |
| 02:48.51 | rm_you | GeneralAntilles: so i guess it's been 24 hours now since it left the UK |
| 02:48.54 | rm_you | T_T |
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| 02:59.55 | javispedro | N950 performance seems to be 1.7x that of N900 |
| 02:59.58 | javispedro | CPUwise |
| 03:02.11 | javispedro | 1.6~1.7x |
| 03:02.39 | antman8969 | are those figures coming from your gut? |
| 03:03.10 | javispedro | obviously |
| 03:03.37 | javispedro | it's not like I have the _DEFINITIVE CPU BENCHMARKING APPLICATION_, do you? |
| 03:04.05 | antman8969 | you didn't download it yet?? |
| 03:04.19 | antman8969 | god |
| 03:05.29 | javispedro | this is just from loading on both the same savestate and counting the amount of 65c816 cycles each one is able to do |
| 03:05.35 | javispedro | (=snes processor) |
| 03:07.28 | javispedro | frm the video side, seems that the compositor has taken quite an speedup, dunno if from itself or the video drivers |
| 03:08.00 | javispedro | as from pushing just about 60 256x256 fps/sec I can now push around 180 on N950 |
| 03:10.31 | rm_you | javispedro: have you tried playing videos on it yet? |
| 03:10.35 | rm_you | is there a working mplayer?] |
| 03:10.54 | javispedro | hmmm.... 180fps tearfree snes *drools* |
| 03:10.57 | rm_you | wondering what bitrate/FPS/resolution is playable |
| 03:11.22 | javispedro | rm_you: actually the video player is slower than n900 |
| 03:11.29 | javispedro | but for some rason videos look nicer |
| 03:11.30 | rm_you | fffffffffffff |
| 03:11.35 | javispedro | wild guess: software decoder |
| 03:11.41 | rm_you | builtin media player? or mplayer even |
| 03:11.55 | javispedro | builtin |
| 03:12.04 | rm_you | hrm |
| 03:19.53 | javispedro | and as I thought, enabling multitouch input is super easy with my SDL =) |
| 03:22.40 | javispedro | bah |
| 03:22.58 | javispedro | 1' 41'' 14 in Mario Kart when I can usually do 1' 00 on N900 =) |
| 03:24.14 | javispedro | calls it a day |
| 03:24.26 | javispedro | cya |
| 03:26.39 | GAN900 | rm_you, w22. :P |
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| 03:49.48 | rm_you | ? |
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| 09:27.24 | V13 | hello. I need some help with installing the SDK (The qemu image). where can I find it ? |
| 09:27.47 | V13 | I've got the N950 and I can't write programs |
| 09:28.48 | V13 | any ideas where to find the qemu image? I'm using debian and all the scripts that I tried failed. I patched meego-sdk-installer-online-20110519 and it finished but it seems that nothing good came out of it. |
| 09:29.12 | V13 | I've qt creator installed but I want to write python programs, so the qt creator is 100% useless for me. |
| 09:30.03 | dm8tbr | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Developing_with_Harmattan_Platform_SDK/Using_QEMU <-- seen this? |
| 09:30.22 | V13 | no |
| 09:30.42 | dm8tbr | now you have :) |
| 09:30.54 | dm8tbr | browse around, there are also other pages re harmattan |
| 09:31.18 | V13 | downloading |
| 09:31.19 | V13 | thanks ! |
| 09:31.38 | V13 | ok.. i've one more question |
| 09:31.43 | V13 | wasn't harmattan supposed to use rpm ? |
| 09:31.49 | V13 | (at least meego) |
| 09:32.01 | mzanetti | Harmattan isn't real MeeGo in the subsystem |
| 09:32.03 | tomma | meego uses rpm, harmattan uses deb |
| 09:32.14 | mzanetti | it only has a compatible API for UI |
| 09:32.19 | V13 | so harmattan is actually harmattan |
| 09:32.28 | tomma | V13, there is also platform SDK for harmattan |
| 09:32.29 | V13 | with some things from meego and qt ? |
| 09:32.38 | tomma | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/Introduction.html |
| 09:33.40 | V13 | the harmattan beta sdk script needs scratchbox. |
| 09:34.45 | V13 | thanks for all that.. one more q: |
| 09:34.59 | V13 | is there an alternative for sudo in harmattan ? |
| 09:35.14 | V13 | I'm going to port wifieye which needs to run a script as root |
| 09:35.26 | V13 | in maemo I used sudo. |
| 09:36.36 | mzanetti | try aegis-su. At least I can run a root shell with that. But I'm not fully through how the aegis stuff works |
| 09:36.55 | V13 | oh.. thnks |
| 09:37.05 | tomma | there is devel-su in developer mode |
| 09:37.07 | V13 | btw, I believe devel-su is for getting a root sel |
| 09:37.08 | V13 | shell |
| 09:37.09 | dm8tbr | I think it's paramount that we learn and document the whole 'capability' thing |
| 09:37.29 | V13 | there is aegis-exec but I haven't search that |
| 09:38.00 | dm8tbr | as it's far more important to have the 'capabilities' than being root |
| 09:39.48 | mzanetti | Is there a way to grab the volume hw buttons? |
| 09:39.58 | mzanetti | so far I use QmKeys to react to the presses |
| 09:40.17 | mzanetti | but now they do my actions AND changing the devices volume |
| 09:40.35 | mzanetti | I would like to grab them exclusively when my app is in foreground |
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| 09:47.09 | V13 | dm8tbr: I believe that image is for testing apps. not for developing. right ? |
| 09:47.50 | dm8tbr | V13: dunno, the link was in my browsing history :) |
| 09:48.34 | V13 | I want something like the maemo's SDK qemu image, which was an ubuntu system with scratchbox and maemo installed |
| 09:49.27 | tomma | it was virtualbox image? |
| 09:49.51 | tomma | but if you are running linux system then why cant you just install scratchbox and sdk? |
| 09:50.50 | V13 | tomma i used it in qemu |
| 09:51.01 | V13 | tomma it seems that nothing is created for debian |
| 09:51.08 | V13 | everything is created for ubuntu |
| 09:51.17 | V13 | and debian has scratchbox2 which seems not to be supported |
| 09:51.36 | V13 | but please, correct me if I'm wrong |
| 09:52.06 | tomma | it is scratchbox1 it needs and i think installer script can install it if you dont have one |
| 09:52.20 | V13 | yes |
| 09:52.26 | V13 | I've seen that and it messes the system a lot |
| 09:52.33 | V13 | so I won't install it in my main system... |
| 09:52.54 | V13 | so either I'll create a qemu image with ubuntu in it, or I need to find something ready about that |
| 09:53.05 | V13 | is there a qemu image available? |
| 09:53.31 | V13 | that was for maemo: http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/ |
| 09:56.07 | V13 | I could also try using containers but that would take some time |
| 09:57.39 | dm8tbr | V13: either lxc or just a chroot, both could work |
| 09:57.52 | V13 | chroot for installing ubuntu.. |
| 09:58.00 | V13 | never tried a linux install in a chroot |
| 09:58.06 | V13 | I've used a lot but never tried an installation |
| 09:58.23 | V13 | wouldn't that cause problems with any kind of gui ? |
| 09:58.27 | V13 | or udev, etc ? |
| 09:58.38 | dm8tbr | why would you need a gui? you only need the SB? |
| 09:59.06 | V13 | the SB would then need to run an X server for the harmattan ui. no ? |
| 10:05.23 | V13 | fyi: trying this: http://wiki.debian.org/LXC |
| 10:09.20 | V13 | (not to self. of course, xnest would not be a problem) |
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| 10:53.19 | Venemo | morning |
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| 11:01.54 | Venemo | why is it that I _always_ miss when trying to click on a link in the N950 browser |
| 11:04.13 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@84-231-105-241.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 11:04.28 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: find . -name libyaml-perl, please :) |
| 11:06.32 | djszapi | same with: libtest-exception-perl |
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| 11:19.39 | rZr | i wish we can rebuilt the whole distro from scratch :) |
| 11:20.26 | djszapi | rZr: mmh ? |
| 11:21.29 | rZr | and make custom flashable rom |
| 11:24.49 | rZr | hey all |
| 11:25.16 | rZr | let me suggest to list out packages you plan to rebuild or maintain somewhere on this page : http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page#List_of_stuff_under_development |
| 11:25.20 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi_ (~lpapp@85-156-92-222.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 11:25.31 | rZr | this will avoid to duplicate our efforts |
| 11:25.36 | rZr | djszapi_: for you : |
| 11:25.45 | rZr | <rZr> hey all |
| 11:25.45 | rZr | <rZr> let me suggest to list out packages you plan to rebuild or maintain somewhere on this page : http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page#List_of_stuff_under_development |
| 11:25.46 | rZr | --> djszapi_ (~lpapp@85-156-92-222.elisa-mobile.fi) has joined #harmattan |
| 11:26.31 | djszapi_ | yeah, my elisa connection is dodgy ;) |
| 11:30.23 | djszapi_ | rZr: I do not think there is a need for what people plan to do. It is a volunteer contribution in leisure time. Anybody can do anything anytime. I think the real solution is to get this shared community repo working and as soon as you have something to share, you can do immediately and visibly. |
| 11:45.56 | rZr | djszapi_: do u have any text editor to suggest ? |
| 11:46.16 | djszapi_ | depends on the purpose, I guess xD |
| 11:46.46 | rZr | something a humman can use with a capacitive screen |
| 11:47.46 | djszapi_ | there is this "Terminal" application, but I just use terminals over ssh. That has been always enough for me. |
| 11:48.31 | rZr | i built mg which is emacs baby |
| 11:48.38 | rZr | i can use it over ssh |
| 11:48.54 | rZr | but not on device (miss meta key) |
| 11:49.42 | djszapi_ | also arrow |
| 11:50.04 | djszapi_ | at least the VK on my N9. =) |
| 11:51.55 | rZr | gestures ? |
| 11:53.55 | djszapi_ | sorry ? |
| 11:54.39 | rZr | just suggested that gestures could replace any key strokes |
| 11:55.27 | djszapi_ | more or less. |
| 11:58.44 | Venemo | hm |
| 11:59.22 | Venemo | does anyone plan to port AutoDisconnect to Harmattan? |
| 12:00.17 | Venemo | it could be very useful |
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| 12:43.45 | aapo | Have somebody used g_error (from glib) under harmattan/N950? Seems to me it is not printing error message, but causing only SIGABRT |
| 12:44.58 | aapo | scratchbox gives error message + qemu: uncaught target signal 6 (Aborted) - core dumped |
| 12:45.47 | djszapi | check the dump with gdb. |
| 12:46.13 | aapo | I checked |
| 12:46.21 | aapo | most simple example: http://pastebin.com/ArHHkDyx |
| 12:46.42 | djszapi | qemu has a lot of exceptions, unfortunately. Sometimes I had to turn off the debian package tests because of those exceptions... |
| 12:47.04 | aapo | backtrace: http://pastebin.com/sCpkCZTs |
| 12:47.23 | aapo | yeah, I'm not interested in to run it under scratchbox |
| 12:52.49 | aapo | Is there any schedule when software/firmware of N950 will be updated? I mean should I spend any time now struggling with unrelevant stuff, like g_error, but just wait one(?) week? |
| 12:55.45 | kimju | I guess there is no public schedule when or even if there is going to be a firmware update for n950. my guess would be that when n9 hits stores.. |
| 12:57.55 | *** join/#harmattan deimos (~deimos@95.233.66.214) |
| 13:04.00 | djszapi | aapo: well, read the forum. |
| 13:05.01 | djszapi | There was a discussion about it, but I would not really expect anything from Nokia, just the worst. Hence it can be just better then =) |
| 13:06.04 | djszapi | They will probably ship a version in the end of September, in my guess because of a new maintenance release if any. |
| 13:10.31 | piggz | haha, my friend almost won an N9, he cot all the characters correct, but in the wrong order, then someone else got it :) |
| 13:12.15 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: no results |
| 13:12.29 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: thanks anyway :) |
| 13:13.09 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: "find . -name gir1.2-glib-2.0*" |
| 13:13.37 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 13:14.23 | djszapi | What is now the public repository for N950 users, btw ? |
| 13:14.33 | djszapi | I mean something that you can put into your sources.list |
| 13:14.41 | DocScrutinizer | ./harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/g/gobject-introspection/gir1.0-glib-2.0_0.6.14-1+maemo3+0m6_armel.deb |
| 13:14.43 | DocScrutinizer | ./harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/g/gobject-introspection/gir1.0-glib-2.0_0.6.14-1+maemo3+0m6_i386.deb |
| 13:14.44 | DocScrutinizer | ./harmattan-dev.nokia.com_2011-07-16/pool/harmattan-beta/free/g/gobject-introspection/gir1.0-glib-2.0_0.6.14-1+maemo3+0m6_armel.deb |
| 13:14.46 | DocScrutinizer | ./harmattan-dev.nokia.com_2011-07-16/pool/harmattan-beta/free/g/gobject-introspection/gir1.0-glib-2.0_0.6.14-1+maemo3+0m6_i386.deb |
| 13:15.35 | DocScrutinizer | oobs sorry for the redundant 2 lines |
| 13:16.04 | djszapi | is kewl :) Where should I report a search engine feature request btw ? |
| 13:16.26 | djszapi | is there some separate harmattan bugtracker ? |
| 13:16.42 | DocScrutinizer | not afaik |
| 13:27.41 | *** join/#harmattan Mece_ (~mece@YMMDCXLVII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:27.54 | Mece_ | hello there! |
| 13:32.34 | piggz | isnt this the marmatter bug tracker? http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/describecomponents.cgi |
| 13:36.54 | DocScrutinizer | yes, probably |
| 13:45.30 | *** join/#harmattan mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 13:58.30 | *** join/#harmattan V13 (~v13@2001:648:ff0d:1:14d2:6dff:febf:1f8a) |
| 14:01.00 | V13 | is there a software rep for harmattan ? |
| 14:02.44 | Venemo | V13, there is rZr's repo for one |
| 14:03.11 | V13 | so, developed apps are supposed to go to ovi only ? |
| 14:03.42 | V13 | I mean: there is not semi-official rep like maemo's extras. right ? |
| 14:03.48 | V13 | (or official) |
| 14:04.01 | dm8tbr | there will be cobs |
| 14:04.07 | V13 | cobs ? |
| 14:04.09 | dm8tbr | so also apps.meego.com most likely |
| 14:04.17 | dm8tbr | community obs |
| 14:04.23 | V13 | oh |
| 14:04.24 | dm8tbr | build.pub.meego.com |
| 14:04.34 | dm8tbr | supports harmattan already thanks to x-fade |
| 14:04.50 | V13 | I believe that any repository related to meego will not be usable because of dpkg. right ? |
| 14:06.10 | V13 | I mean: right now, if i port something to harmattan |
| 14:06.13 | V13 | what should I do next ? |
| 14:06.25 | V13 | dev.n.c only mentions ovi store |
| 14:07.55 | dm8tbr | The stated intent is to have signing also for COBS |
| 14:08.29 | dm8tbr | I'm not sure if COBS will be able to grant all the capabilities that ovi/nokia store can though |
| 14:08.36 | V13 | I don't get it |
| 14:08.40 | V13 | right now I've a n950 |
| 14:08.47 | V13 | and I'll port some things to it |
| 14:08.51 | V13 | but where should I publish them ? |
| 14:08.54 | V13 | only in ovi ? |
| 14:09.01 | dm8tbr | if it's open source use OBS |
| 14:09.11 | V13 | it's oss |
| 14:09.17 | V13 | where is obs ? |
| 14:09.32 | dm8tbr | https://build.pub.meego.com/user/register_user |
| 14:09.51 | V13 | and this accepts debian package s? |
| 14:10.05 | dm8tbr | this will also _build_ debian packages, yes |
| 14:10.22 | V13 | Perhaps I need to read some things |
| 14:10.37 | V13 | Since the packager (me in that case) does the packaging. |
| 14:10.49 | V13 | Won't I only create a debian package ? |
| 14:10.59 | V13 | (and upload the source) |
| 14:11.05 | dm8tbr | you create the dsc etc and the OBS builds it |
| 14:11.14 | dm8tbr | OBS stands for OpenBuildService |
| 14:11.14 | V13 | I also create the debian/ dir |
| 14:11.18 | V13 | no ? |
| 14:13.41 | dm8tbr | http://wiki.meego.com/User:Vgrade#Harmattan_OBS but there should be better pages on the topic |
| 14:13.49 | V13 | thnks |
| 14:14.48 | dm8tbr | http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS#Into_Harmattan |
| 14:14.57 | dm8tbr | http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS rather |
| 14:15.19 | V13 | thnks dm8tbr |
| 14:17.42 | V13 | dm8tbr: have you used sb for harmattan ? |
| 14:23.30 | dm8tbr | nope |
| 14:23.41 | dm8tbr | didn't get around yet to set up a build environment |
| 14:24.16 | V13 | i did it but it doesn't show some graphics |
| 14:24.22 | V13 | only red rectangles |
| 14:54.10 | *** join/#harmattan trx (~ns-team@212.200.199.199) |
| 15:22.07 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 15:24.48 | *** join/#harmattan V13 (~v13@2001:648:ff0d:1:14d2:6dff:febf:1f8a) |
| 15:25.48 | V13 | ok.. one more: If I use SDK-installer-linux-64bit.bin (which comes with N950), it fails with error: "Could not fetch Updates.xml: Error downloading http://repository.meego.nokia.com/meegosdk/..... server replied: Bad Request" |
| 15:25.51 | V13 | any idea ? |
| 15:26.12 | *** join/#harmattan mzanetti (~micha@2001:4dd0:fddf:0:21c:b3ff:fec3:e17a) |
| 15:31.28 | V13 | anyone here able to use *any* sdk for harmattan under linux ? |
| 15:31.38 | V13 | except from qt creator |
| 15:36.16 | Venemo | V13, I have the Qt SDK |
| 15:36.25 | V13 | anything else ? |
| 15:36.30 | Venemo | Scratchbox is also there |
| 15:36.40 | V13 | have you managed to use scratchbox ? |
| 15:39.33 | V13 | That's what I get: http://tinypic.com/r/2je9zef/7 |
| 15:40.05 | Venemo | I have, but I don't currently have a working installation of it (HDD failure, and it's not yet reinstalled) |
| 15:40.23 | V13 | did it used to work ? |
| 15:40.26 | *** join/#harmattan cpscotti (~cpscotti@46.208.240.229) |
| 15:40.37 | Venemo | it worked, yes |
| 15:40.43 | V13 | with all graphics, etc ? |
| 15:40.51 | V13 | and not like the one I pasted ? |
| 15:40.53 | Venemo | it had some graphical artifacts |
| 15:40.58 | Venemo | although I have little use for it now that I have a real N950 |
| 15:41.03 | V13 | ? |
| 15:41.07 | V13 | and where are you developing |
| 15:41.07 | V13 | ? |
| 15:41.17 | V13 | I'm trying to start righting code for it (I also got a n950) and I can't |
| 15:41.40 | Venemo | well then, run your apps directly on the N950 |
| 15:41.46 | V13 | ?? |
| 15:41.51 | V13 | where will I compile them? |
| 15:41.53 | Venemo | it is a lot better experience than the Scratchbox-based SDK |
| 15:41.54 | V13 | and code them? |
| 15:41.58 | V13 | venemo |
| 15:42.02 | Venemo | let the Qt SDK take care of that |
| 15:42.05 | V13 | I suppose that you develop |
| 15:42.09 | V13 | where are you writting your code ? |
| 15:42.18 | V13 | I'm using python |
| 15:42.21 | V13 | so no Qt SDK for that |
| 15:42.47 | Venemo | you could still do what Qt Creator does in the background |
| 15:42.53 | V13 | which is ? |
| 15:44.05 | Venemo | compile with the cross-compiler in MADDE, and have it copy over and run your executable for you |
| 15:44.12 | V13 | I use python |
| 15:44.17 | Venemo | since python doesn't need to be compiled, it should be easy |
| 15:44.18 | V13 | no compilation needed |
| 15:44.21 | V13 | and I need svn to write code |
| 15:44.27 | Venemo | thatmakes it even easier |
| 15:44.35 | V13 | No SVN for n950 |
| 15:44.41 | V13 | right ? |
| 15:44.51 | Venemo | dunno, but you can have svn on your computer, that isn't enough? |
| 15:44.58 | V13 | ?? |
| 15:45.07 | V13 | you write the code in the svn checkedout tree |
| 15:45.09 | V13 | and you commit changes |
| 15:45.18 | V13 | If I'm going to copy-paste files then no need for svn |
| 15:45.32 | V13 | So I want to compile SVN for harmattan |
| 15:45.32 | Venemo | indeed. |
| 15:45.38 | Venemo | hm |
| 15:45.43 | V13 | but that's not something that can be done with qt sdk |
| 15:45.43 | Venemo | you do not understand what I'm saying |
| 15:45.49 | V13 | so I need the freaking SDK |
| 15:45.51 | V13 | insane |
| 15:45.56 | Venemo | MADDE can do what you want |
| 15:46.00 | V13 | xmm |
| 15:46.00 | Venemo | it has a full sysroot |
| 15:46.11 | Venemo | and you can even install additional libs to it |
| 15:46.13 | V13 | so you say I should go for MADDE ? |
| 15:46.29 | Venemo | Scratchbox should work too. but if that fails... MADDE can work. |
| 15:46.43 | V13 | ok.. how do i get madde? |
| 15:47.23 | Venemo | it's in the Qt SDK |
| 15:47.26 | V13 | http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE |
| 15:47.36 | Venemo | that wikipage is a very old entr |
| 15:47.38 | Venemo | y |
| 15:47.40 | V13 | I've QtSDK installed |
| 15:47.43 | V13 | then what ? |
| 15:47.52 | Venemo | are you on Linux or Windows? |
| 15:47.55 | V13 | linux |
| 15:48.02 | Venemo | find its directory |
| 15:48.10 | V13 | I also has madde installed |
| 15:48.20 | V13 | and the executables "mad" and "mad-admin" |
| 15:48.22 | Venemo | then you can use the 'mad' command as described in that wikipage |
| 15:48.30 | Venemo | use 'mad-admin' to set the current target to Harmattan |
| 15:48.37 | Venemo | then 'mad make', and you're good to go |
| 15:49.16 | V13 | meego-core-armv7l-trunk <-- that one ? |
| 15:49.45 | V13 | #fail there too |
| 15:49.45 | Venemo | that seems to me meego.com meego, not harmattan |
| 15:49.49 | V13 | hmm |
| 15:50.05 | Venemo | nah, I need to get away from the computer, will be back later |
| 15:50.14 | V13 | thnks anyway |
| 16:11.45 | V13 | nothing |
| 16:22.01 | *** join/#harmattan vandenoever (~oever@kde/vandenoever) |
| 16:22.38 | vandenoever | is there something like the n900 package manager for n950? |
| 16:23.04 | V13 | n950 also has apt and dpkg |
| 16:24.20 | vandenoever | V13: i meant a gui and repository |
| 16:24.29 | V13 | oh |
| 16:24.30 | V13 | dunno |
| 16:24.37 | V13 | couldn't find one |
| 16:25.32 | *** join/#harmattan V13 (~v13@2001:648:ff0d:1:14d2:6dff:febf:1f8a) |
| 16:31.55 | Mek | there is a gui for updates and removal of packages, installing of new package is i think supposed to have a repo-specific gui (so ovi store, some community repo website, things like that) |
| 16:34.56 | V13 | oh |
| 16:42.44 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, no GUI for app installation (yet), other than Store (""OVI: Coming soon..."") |
| 16:43.35 | DocScrutinizer | clicking on .deb in browser usually "just works" though, with 2 clicks, one for download and another one to install |
| 16:43.52 | V13 | is the "nokia account" login supposed to say "not currentl available" (or sthing like that), or is it my problem ? |
| 16:44.52 | DocScrutinizer | I had same problem for one weekend, then it was fixed for me, maybe due to my reflash, maybe because yahoo/nokia/ovi fixed their web API |
| 16:46.07 | DocScrutinizer | anyway there's a bug ticket for it, on nokia bugtracker |
| 16:46.20 | V13 | "service currently unavailable" |
| 16:46.37 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 16:48.33 | V13 | thnk docs |
| 16:49.26 | vandenoever | is about to deploy an app to the phone, i've installed harmattan for qtcreator, but without emulator |
| 16:49.39 | DocScrutinizer | note that I have issues with logging in to OVI on my laptop as well, it frequently needs cleaning out an offending "sessione ended" cookie to re-establish proper login |
| 16:49.43 | vandenoever | and now i'm wondering if the emulator might be needed for compilation |
| 16:51.00 | DocScrutinizer | otherwise (with this defect cookie) the browser thends to enter a recursive loop and eventually aborts |
| 16:52.29 | DocScrutinizer | funny: first surfing to the developer.nokia.com frontpage makes auto-authenticate succeed, and from there it's then possible to jump to the more complex URLs that previously failed |
| 16:52.33 | V13 | docs: It asks for the ovi account. right ? |
| 16:52.45 | DocScrutinizer | jup |
| 16:53.09 | DocScrutinizer | I'm using it with my old joerg900 account now, which seems to work |
| 16:56.38 | DocScrutinizer | V13: you could try one thing: use Web browser to log in to your OVI account, then while keeping logged in via browser try to activate the "Nokia account" with same credentials |
| 16:56.50 | V13 | I'm doing something like that |
| 16:56.55 | V13 | I reset the password |
| 16:56.58 | DocScrutinizer | dunno if it may help, or not |
| 16:56.59 | V13 | and just changed it from n950 |
| 16:58.15 | DocScrutinizer | also "resetting to factory defaults" or "delete private info" or sth might clean out the cookie cache |
| 16:58.29 | V13 | bad thing is that even if i ender a bad password it says the same |
| 16:58.30 | DocScrutinizer | which also might help |
| 16:58.50 | V13 | how can i do that ? |
| 16:58.57 | V13 | (the "delete private info"? ) |
| 16:59.02 | DocScrutinizer | dunno |
| 16:59.08 | DocScrutinizer | check settings |
| 16:59.23 | V13 | there is only full reset |
| 16:59.32 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 16:59.47 | DocScrutinizer | might be same effect I did with my reflash |
| 17:00.50 | DocScrutinizer | I guess entering wrong user password combo initially to the "Nokia account" stores a cookie somewhere that never gets cleared |
| 17:01.31 | vandenoever | flashing gets rid of nokia account |
| 17:02.03 | vandenoever | and contrary to flasing n900 also wipes user files |
| 17:02.22 | DocScrutinizer | settings -> apps -> web -> "Clear private data" |
| 17:02.33 | Mek | only because the flashing script you can download for the n950 also flashes emmc, you can easily hack that bit out of it |
| 17:02.57 | vandenoever | Mek: good to know, thanks |
| 17:03.26 | V13 | oh there it is! I'm not used yet to the settigns -> apps thing |
| 17:03.28 | vandenoever | has a (very ugly) metronome with swinging pendulum running on n950 now |
| 17:04.25 | DocScrutinizer | settings -> reset -> "restore original settings" |
| 17:04.48 | vandenoever | DocScrutinizer: that does not erase nokia account |
| 17:05.18 | DocScrutinizer | we don't want to erase nokia account. after all we're not able to create it |
| 17:06.37 | V13 | is it possible that no-sim can cause that problem ? |
| 17:06.53 | DocScrutinizer | I think there's a cookie or whatever stored on first try to configure nokia account with incorrect data, and that cookie never gets erased after that |
| 17:06.58 | V13 | I mean: does the number need to be registered to ovi ? |
| 17:07.04 | DocScrutinizer | V13: definitely not |
| 17:08.02 | DocScrutinizer | V13: I'm using the device without SIM |
| 17:08.34 | V13 | ok |
| 17:11.01 | vandenoever | is there a quicker way of closing an application than going to the application overview and pressing down some seconds? |
| 17:11.27 | DocScrutinizer | ctrl-Q |
| 17:11.44 | DocScrutinizer | ;-D |
| 17:12.18 | Mek | and apparently once the software is finished you can configure down-swipe (or was it up-swipe) to close the app too |
| 17:12.40 | vandenoever | ok, nice |
| 17:13.05 | vandenoever | i guess it's good practice to save state before finishing then |
| 17:13.32 | DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950#Keyboard_shortcuts FTW (took me some hour to test and list) |
| 17:14.23 | dm8tbr | ah, I wondered who added them and how he found them :) |
| 17:14.30 | vandenoever | hmm, my application only runs landscape despite calling QmlApplicationViewer::setOrientation |
| 17:15.05 | lcuk | Mek, up/down swipe is going to be odd - since orientation matters ;) |
| 17:19.29 | frals | downswipe is always down from current orientation, so not odd at all tbh |
| 17:29.36 | V13 | ok.. back to the real problem... |
| 17:29.40 | V13 | I'm trying to use madde |
| 17:29.50 | V13 | I believe I've currently installed it |
| 17:30.02 | V13 | so, how do I start writting programs with it ? |
| 17:30.37 | rm_you | GeneralAntilles: CINCINNATI!!!! |
| 17:30.46 | lcuk | frals, when the device is flat on the desk :P |
| 17:30.48 | rm_you | not sure why it took 22-28 hours to ger there tho |
| 17:30.59 | lcuk | because it is cincinnati! :P |
| 17:31.12 | lcuk | you would take 22-28 hours to get there :P |
| 17:33.15 | rm_you | lcuk: the slow but steady progress of my device: picked up July 14, 14:38, leaves helsinki at 21:53. Arrives July 15 00:44 at Leipzig, leaves immediately. Arrives at East Midlands UK, 2:22, processed at 6:06. Leaves the UK at 3:53 the next day ( july 16). Arrives at Cincinnati 10:52 the next day (July 17) |
| 17:34.43 | lcuk | rm_you, DHL use airships |
| 17:34.45 | lcuk | :P |
| 17:34.50 | rm_you | lol |
| 17:34.58 | rm_you | that would... totally explain it |
| 17:35.28 | GAN900 | rm_you, mine too. |
| 17:35.36 | GAN900 | 10:57 |
| 17:35.42 | rm_you | GAN900: i wonder when they'll split |
| 17:35.43 | rm_you | prolly now |
| 17:35.46 | rm_you | since they hit the US |
| 17:35.52 | rm_you | yours will head to FL, mine to TX |
| 17:35.53 | rm_you | I HOPE |
| 17:35.59 | rm_you | prolly mine will hit Dallas |
| 17:37.12 | rm_you | unless yours routes to FL through Dallas (or vv) :P |
| 17:38.41 | GAN900 | Could, don't recall where DHL usually routes through. |
| 17:38.45 | GAN900 | Probably be here Thursday. |
| 17:39.16 | *** join/#harmattan harbaum (~quassel@krlh-4d036e08.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 17:39.45 | rm_you | lol |
| 17:43.49 | GAN900 | I'm going to get hit by a bus on the way to pick it up at the DHL center after missing the delivery. |
| 17:50.06 | vandenoever | do some people have qml apps that follow orientation? |
| 17:55.26 | Mek | yes, mine workst just fine |
| 17:55.41 | Mek | using harmatan qt components |
| 17:55.53 | Mek | iirc that is the only way that is currently really supported |
| 17:58.54 | vandenoever | Mek: that is different from using QGraphicsView setOrientation that the generated code uses? |
| 17:59.06 | vandenoever | Mek: can you paste a bit of example or url to doc? |
| 17:59.56 | Mek | I think I just created a default "harmattan qml applicaiton"or whatever the template in qt creator was called... |
| 18:00.26 | Mek | and the generated c++ code doesn't do anything orientation related, it only creates q QDeclarativeView that loads the main qml file |
| 18:01.26 | vandenoever | Mek: same here, but the wizard asked me to say if i wanted auto orientation, i said yes, and this gives |
| 18:01.39 | vandenoever | viewer.setOrientation(QmlApplicationViewer::ScreenOrientationAuto); |
| 18:01.43 | vandenoever | in main.cpp |
| 18:01.51 | vandenoever | but that gives no result |
| 18:02.08 | Mek | huh? my wizard didn't ask me any such thing. Are you sure you chose the Harmattan template, not the generic qml app template? |
| 18:02.22 | Mek | QmlApplicaitonViewer is afaik a class that is only generated in the generic template |
| 18:03.06 | vandenoever | ah, indeed, i started app before i had harmattan installed |
| 18:03.29 | vandenoever | now qtcreator gives option for harmattan app, i'll try that and port |
| 18:04.25 | vandenoever | too bad that has no ability to build/run desktop version, that makes debugging slow |
| 18:05.18 | Mek | you can run on a qemu emulated device :P but debugging from qt creator on the actual device isn't exactly slow either? |
| 18:08.01 | vandenoever | takes about 20 seconds to start app on device here |
| 18:08.09 | lcuk | with the way aegis is locking down apps |
| 18:08.21 | lcuk | do I understand on device qml development is not possible? |
| 18:09.23 | Mek | I don't think qml files are signed/hashed by aegis? but I didn't try if modifying a qml file makes aegis complain |
| 18:09.50 | lcuk | Mek, installed by packages |
| 18:09.59 | lcuk | so most likely so, but others will know |
| 18:10.08 | *** join/#harmattan dridk (~sacha@2a01:e35:2436:3590:bdb9:1a34:b626:f97a) |
| 18:11.42 | dridk | hello all! I m looking for the qml faster listview used in contact with the search bar and the alphabetic seeker! Does somebody know how can I use it in my qml application for N950 ? |
| 18:11.44 | Mek | my current app has the qml files embedded in the qt resources, so then you indeed can't edit them on-device, but I would think that it shuold be possible for your app to load qml files that are not necesarily installed as part of a package? (how woulda egis be able to determine that they are qml files and not random other documents?) |
| 18:12.25 | Mek | I did manage to implement my own search bar, but it took quite some hacking... it seems quite some widgets that exist in libmeegotouch don't exist in qml components... |
| 18:13.00 | dridk | Mek, yes and that sucks |
| 18:13.07 | Mek | yeah |
| 18:14.04 | dridk | I didn't find documentation about Meego API. There are some demo in the N950, but no source , no documentation... |
| 18:14.38 | dridk | only to see ... :( :( |
| 18:15.09 | dridk | For exemple, how to integrate application with the phone ( settings, notification etc...) |
| 18:15.53 | Mek | http://paste.kde.org/97981/ that has my search widget and listview... |
| 18:16.41 | dridk | Mek, thanks, kde friend ? |
| 18:16.46 | Mek | inputMethodHints: Qt.ImhNoPredictiveText is needed because otherwise there is no way to get the text from the text field as it is being typed |
| 18:17.00 | Mek | dridk: kde developer, yes |
| 18:17.04 | lcuk | mek that has no actual search functionality though :P |
| 18:17.26 | Mek | lcuk: the search functionality is in the model reacting to changes to the searchText property :) |
| 18:17.35 | dridk | Mek, nice to see a community friend :) |
| 18:17.40 | Mek | and yeah, the model is my own QAbstractItemModel class |
| 18:18.29 | dridk | And does somebody know where can I have the name of icon theme ? |
| 18:18.44 | Mek | see what files exist on the device in /usr/share/theme :P |
| 18:26.24 | dridk | Mek! I copy every icons! Are those icons opensource ? |
| 18:26.40 | Mek | i have no idea... |
| 18:26.49 | Stskeeps | doubt it |
| 18:27.56 | dridk | ok, I guess nokia developpers are not present on irc freenode.. |
| 18:28.34 | Mek | even if they would be they are probably not in any position of being allowed to make statements on behalf of nokia |
| 18:29.27 | DocScrutinizer | Mek: ;-D |
| 18:30.39 | dridk | ok :p ! |
| 18:30.47 | lcuk | mek, no but they may be in a position to find related documentation/licenses |
| 18:31.09 | lcuk | which when coming from official sources/sites/repositories etc can be used properly |
| 18:31.26 | lcuk | perhaps check apt-cache on the theme itself |
| 18:31.34 | lcuk | usually in debianish there is a license |
| 18:32.02 | dridk | cool! Icons are GPL! I will publish them on my blog and on nokia wiki to help guys! |
| 18:32.31 | Stskeeps | dridk: i'd look at the bianco license first.. you may have seen the base theme one |
| 18:33.03 | lcuk | dridk, where does it say icons are GPL? which package are you checking? |
| 18:33.50 | dridk | Oups.. I think I copy my icons folder in the same place of gpl-2.0.txt... |
| 18:34.12 | dridk | so, big mistake! Sorry! |
| 18:36.52 | dridk | And last question : I suppose qml meego component are inside a binary. Impossible to get them. right ? |
| 18:37.38 | V13 | still doesn't get it |
| 18:37.42 | Mek | harmattan components are afaik, yes, meego components at least exist in some version in the gitorious repo, and they seem to match the harmattan ones at least for everything I looked at them for |
| 18:38.00 | V13 | Can someone please provide me some info on how I can do this: I want to compile svn for harmattan. Which SDK/tool should I use? |
| 18:38.08 | Mek | and com.nokia.extras components are all plaintext .qml files in /usr/lib/qt/imports |
| 18:38.38 | vandenoever | wonders how to use e.g. type XYZ from XYZ.qml, now i get 'XYZ is not a type' XYZ.qml is in same folder as main.qml |
| 18:38.48 | lcuk | how would a serious app publisher generate qt/qml apps in a closed source manner? |
| 18:38.54 | lcuk | is there a compiled qml option? |
| 18:39.12 | Mek | vandenoever: main.qml is loaded from the qt resources in the binary and XYZ.qml isn't in the same resource dir? |
| 18:39.22 | V13 | lcuk I believe it's more a matter of drm than closed-source |
| 18:39.28 | vandenoever | ah, so i need to add all files to resouce file |
| 18:39.29 | V13 | lcuk: If you can't see the code then you can't copy it |
| 18:40.05 | V13 | lcuk: after all, if you can copy the binary then it's the same thing (w.r.t. to the proprietary code) |
| 18:40.07 | lcuk | V13 companies keep source code closed for numerous reasons |
| 18:40.10 | lcuk | copying is only 1 |
| 18:40.15 | V13 | correct |
| 18:40.26 | lcuk | the app contains business logic |
| 18:41.46 | V13 | oh.. you're not referring to mobiles.. you're talking about qml in general |
| 18:42.07 | lcuk | a well positioned business may have mobiles in its portfolio |
| 18:42.20 | Jaffa | lcuk: There's compiled QML in Qt 5; in Qt 4 you can put them in QRC files and/or whatever encryption you want |
| 18:42.23 | lcuk | ala maemo/meego/iphone/ipad |
| 18:42.42 | lcuk | Jaffa, but that is moving the flow away from qml |
| 18:43.20 | lcuk | and publisher has no reason to use qml if the app is just a binary anyway |
| 18:43.35 | dridk | Mek, oaahoo!! Thanks, I found a lot of extra qml component in usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/nokia/extras ! Cool |
| 18:43.43 | lcuk | i realise now qml is just one layer, and hopefully with qt5 a mechanism will be possible |
| 18:43.50 | lcuk | but if we expect qml/js to expand |
| 18:44.04 | lcuk | and complete apps generated without a binary component at all |
| 18:44.20 | lcuk | (which REALLY simplifies deployment) |
| 18:44.28 | Jaffa | lcuk: That isn't moving the flow away from QML IMHO. Nor does it reduce the benefits of QML |
| 18:44.46 | Jaffa | lcuk: Most publishers/devs - especially closed source ones - won't be publishing straight from their device. |
| 18:45.01 | lcuk | Jaffa, if developers are being told to create binaries anyway, it is not incentive to actually expand on qml route |
| 18:45.25 | lcuk | the direct from device bit is completely different topic from earlier |
| 18:45.32 | lcuk | not related to this thought |
| 18:45.38 | Jaffa | lcuk: Packages are binary. The benefits of QML are fast development, rapid prototyping, flexible and powerful UIs etc. |
| 18:45.57 | Jaffa | lcuk: That QML files are interpreted doesn't seem to be an advantage |
| 18:47.01 | lcuk | fast development, rapid prototyping are a function of the IDE and not specifically to the toolkit |
| 18:48.02 | lcuk | Jaffa, it will do when the number of architectures grows |
| 18:48.11 | lcuk | look at the OBS complexity already |
| 18:48.28 | lcuk | just wait another 12 months and the sheer number of platforms your single binary package will have to be built to |
| 18:48.51 | lcuk | then consider being able to directly download your package from gitorious without ever compiling it |
| 18:49.02 | lcuk | and running it like a real thing :) |
| 18:49.05 | Jaffa | lcuk: I can see your point, but directly executing obfuscated QML doesn't seem to be on the roadmap. |
| 18:49.18 | Jaffa | lcuk: But you were talking about closed source apps, whose source wouldn't be on gitorious |
| 18:50.04 | lcuk | Jaffa, example for clarity, the principle of a (encrypted) source repo is right |
| 18:50.37 | lcuk | Jaffa, that might be feasible almost today actually, git installs on the device happily |
| 18:50.39 | lcuk | hmms |
| 18:52.20 | SpeedEvil | Can apps be entirely QML/js? |
| 18:53.32 | Mek | in theory, yes (although you'll of course need a binary like qmlviewer to load the qml) |
| 18:56.23 | Jaffa | In practice, not *quite* at the moment. |
| 18:56.36 | Jaffa | Although Qt Creator will create an appropriate stub main.cpp which bootstraps your app |
| 18:57.59 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
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| 19:13.15 | vandenoever | ok, now my application looks good and respects orientation, only problem left: sound is not played anymore |
| 19:13.34 | vandenoever | perhaps Audio {} has a problem reading from qrc |
| 19:14.22 | *** join/#harmattan xerxes2 (~xerxes2@1-2-6-1a.mdp.mlm.bostream.se) |
| 19:15.33 | *** join/#harmattan javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
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| 19:20.51 | vandenoever | indeed, gstreamer !⥠qrc |
| 19:21.43 | *** join/#harmattan antman8969 (6c06b0b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.6.176.176) |
| 20:01.18 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi_ (~lpapp@80-186-134-164.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 20:01.23 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi_ (~lpapp@80-186-134-164.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 20:05.06 | javispedro | seemingly the N950 supports 802.11 n |
| 20:05.26 | javispedro | or at least wifi chipset (wl1273?) does |
| 20:14.29 | antman8969 | do devs in here plan on making their qpplications available to Maemo 5 as well? |
| 20:15.28 | flux | I guess it's at least feasible for GUI apps, if the QT available for Maemo 5 isn't too much behind times.. |
| 20:16.32 | antman8969 | thats what I was wondering. Is there going to be a Qt update for it? |
| 20:16.40 | lcuk | antman8969, many of the developers here already have their apps on nmaemo5 |
| 20:16.52 | antman8969 | is a reason that I can't just build from source in scratchbox for maemo? |
| 20:17.09 | antman8969 | yes but, as I use qml more and more, I find parts of it that do not work in maemo 5 lcuk |
| 20:18.04 | dm8tbr | javispedro: if it's a wilink6 then it's just single channel, single antenna with n modulation. so don't expect bandwith wonders |
| 20:18.19 | dm8tbr | iow SISO not MIMO |
| 20:18.54 | lcuk | antman8969, who said anything about qml? |
| 20:19.06 | lcuk | you asked whether developers would put their apps on m5 |
| 20:19.09 | lcuk | i answered :P |
| 20:19.25 | antman8969 | lol I should have be explicit I suppose |
| 20:19.27 | lcuk | what you should have said is whether their new apps will be on m5 ;) |
| 20:19.49 | antman8969 | will their QML*** aps be on maemo 5? |
| 20:19.55 | antman8969 | *phew* |
| 20:19.56 | lcuk | will be updating an app for Maemo4 in a few days |
| 20:20.06 | lcuk | and Maemo5 and Maemo6 actually |
| 20:20.13 | lcuk | as well as MeeGo |
| 20:20.24 | antman8969 | using qml?? |
| 20:20.32 | lcuk | no |
| 20:20.50 | antman8969 | how do the desktop components look on harmattan? |
| 20:21.05 | lcuk | idk |
| 20:21.09 | lcuk | not looked |
| 20:21.19 | lcuk | but my calendar looks like it does everywhere else |
| 20:21.50 | antman8969 | could I get the app name? |
| 20:22.08 | lcuk | liqcalendar http://www.my-maemo.com/grafika/liqcalendar.jpg |
| 20:23.54 | antman8969 | and that's using plain Qt? |
| 20:24.01 | lcuk | no |
| 20:24.15 | lcuk | has a qt build but that is not what is used on maemo etc |
| 20:25.10 | antman8969 | lol clearly i';m confused |
| 20:25.14 | antman8969 | gtk? |
| 20:26.07 | lcuk | no |
| 20:26.09 | DocScrutinizer | now what? |
| 20:26.34 | DocScrutinizer | maemo4 maemo5 qml maemo6 meego, I'm seriously confused |
| 20:26.54 | antman8969 | lol |
| 20:27.16 | DocScrutinizer | I guess you missed this chan is #maemo after all |
| 20:29.16 | DocScrutinizer | on #harmattan the context was a bit more predefined |
| 20:29.53 | javispedro | is now confused too |
| 20:29.57 | DocScrutinizer | as there app usually means qml app |
| 20:30.04 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, ? |
| 20:30.30 | lcuk | so why were you spending hours complaining about the kernel which most certainly is not qml |
| 20:31.07 | DocScrutinizer | and not explicitly mentioning any M[456] would default to harmattan aka M6 |
| 20:31.41 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: why are you spending seconds of your valuable time asking me riddles? |
| 20:32.11 | lcuk | time was not wasted, I was rolling a cig |
| 20:32.25 | GAN900 | rm_you, departed 16:16 |
| 20:33.41 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: seems to me the whole effort posting this question was a complete waste of time anyway |
| 20:33.42 | rm_you | lol |
| 20:33.57 | rm_you | GAN900: mine is still in Cincinnati |
| 20:34.14 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, which part do you have a problem with? really I was talking with antman8969 |
| 20:34.19 | GAN900 | Woo! |
| 20:34.35 | DocScrutinizer | and I notice a rising frequency in you posting such things, which at best could be considered mild trolling |
| 20:35.19 | lcuk | wonders what he posted now |
| 20:35.42 | antman8969 | i am REALLY confused |
| 20:35.48 | lcuk | ditto antman8969 |
| 20:35.56 | lcuk | i will go for a smoke |
| 20:36.04 | antman8969 | lol alright.... |
| 20:36.07 | lcuk | perhaps DocScrutinizer can fill you in whilst I am gone |
| 20:36.32 | antman8969 | aparently our mention of m4 5 and 6 alarmed him when he did not wish to be alarmed |
| 20:36.43 | antman8969 | I swear, it was an actual conversation though... |
| 20:40.03 | DocScrutinizer | antman8969: this channel is 99.9% about devels making apps for m5 |
| 20:40.35 | DocScrutinizer | the question "do devels here plan to also publish their apps for m5" is a bit bizarre |
| 20:41.04 | DocScrutinizer | it was all sane on #harmattan though |
| 20:41.21 | DocScrutinizer | that's what got me confused and then alarmed |
| 20:41.32 | antman8969 | not if you want to know how many devs were planning to support both platforms.... It would be equally out of place if I asked how many devs were planning to support m6 in #maemo |
| 20:42.14 | DocScrutinizer | meh, sorry, I'm COMPLETELY off topic and in wrong tab |
| 20:42.22 | DocScrutinizer | scratch it ALL please, and sorry |
| 20:42.44 | antman8969 | lol still slightly confused....but ok! |
| 20:42.54 | Mek | bah, my n950 seems to no longer be able to flash the cmt-mcusw part of an image... which somehow seems to make it not find its modem or at least not recognize any sim card... |
| 20:42.57 | DocScrutinizer | I thought I'm in #maemo |
| 20:43.21 | DocScrutinizer | got a "issue" with my irc client's tabs |
| 20:43.27 | GAN900 | hands DocScrutinizer a candy bar. |
| 20:43.34 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: thanks |
| 20:43.38 | DocScrutinizer | much needed |
| 20:43.54 | antman8969 | i see |
| 20:44.29 | DocScrutinizer | you see I urgently need off-time |
| 20:44.30 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
| 20:48.40 | *** join/#harmattan Mece (~mece@YMMDCXLVII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:48.45 | Mece | hello |
| 20:50.47 | Mece | I have run into an annoying problem. |
| 20:53.46 | Mece | dpkg: status database area is locked by another process |
| 20:54.07 | Mece | which process would that be I wonder... |
| 20:54.26 | Mek | some process checking for updates I assume? just wait a little bit and try again? |
| 20:55.31 | Mece | well nothing happens. been waiting for a long time.. |
| 20:55.55 | Mece | i have very poor reception so my guess is it failed and forgot to unlock |
| 20:57.58 | antman8969 | restarting almost certainly will fix it... |
| 20:58.29 | antman8969 | For me it's usually HAM doing it, and dpkg --configure -a seems to fix it (probably by mistake) |
| 21:01.18 | Mece | well on n900 it was just to kill apt-worker. no apt-worker on N950 |
| 21:01.32 | Mece | but yeah. restart. |
| 21:05.25 | Mece | hey how do I open a new terminal in harmattan? |
| 21:05.40 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo (~Timur@host-94-248-207-98.kabelnet.hu) |
| 21:05.40 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo (~Timur@fedora/Venemo) |
| 21:06.52 | rZr | Mece: kill pkgmgrd |
| 21:07.26 | rZr | just tested mozilla fenec it seems good |
| 21:08.12 | Mece | rZr, \o/ thanks! |
| 21:10.44 | rZr | ! |
| 21:10.59 | rZr | Mece: u welcome, what are u intalling ? :) |
| 21:11.29 | Mece | tweed suit |
| 21:12.07 | rZr | never heard about |
| 21:12.24 | Mece | done it about 100 times, this was the first time the dpkg problem ocurred. |
| 21:31.07 | *** join/#harmattan NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD28BF5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:38.26 | GeneralAntilles | rm_you, I hope mine doesn't end up stuck in the air like fiferboy's. |
| 21:39.28 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo (~Timur@host-94-248-207-98.kabelnet.hu) |
| 21:39.28 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo (~Timur@fedora/Venemo) |
| 21:43.44 | Mece | now why can't I find the api refs for harmattan qtquick components? |
| 21:52.06 | Venemo | Mece, http://library.developer.nokia.com/ |
| 21:53.14 | Venemo | Mece, MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan Developer Library Beta / Reference documentation / MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan API (Beta) / Topics / Application frameworks / Qt Quick Components |
| 21:54.25 | Mece | Venemo, thanks. |
| 21:56.55 | Venemo | Mece, you are welcome |
| 21:59.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | should we get this link to /topic? |
| 22:00.03 | Mece | yes please |
| 22:00.30 | Mece | hey how does one open a second (and third and fourth etc) terminal? |
| 22:00.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | as soon as I'm back to my main workstation |
| 22:05.05 | DocScrutinizer51 | Venemo: would you add the link to topic? |
| 22:05.46 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer51, how can I do that? |
| 22:07.21 | *** mode/#harmattan [+o Venemo] by ChanServ |
| 22:08.44 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer51, umm, what do I need to do? /topic and that's it? |
| 22:08.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | yup |
| 22:09.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | c+p old topic |
| 22:09.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | edit, /topic |
| 22:09.57 | Venemo | ok |
| 22:11.49 | *** topic/#harmattan by Venemo -> /topic A cozy little place for pure harmattan device and development discussions | Developers, check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950 | MeeGo N9(|50) CE on its way, MOSLO still missing, discuss in #meego-arm please | Chanlogs: See ~logs , http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ |
| 22:12.11 | *** topic/#harmattan by Venemo -> A cozy little place for pure harmattan device and development discussions | Developers, check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950 | MeeGo N9(|50) CE on its way, MOSLO still missing, discuss in #meego-arm please | |
| 22:12.25 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer51, is this okay? |
| 22:12.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | chan log? |
| 22:13.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | s/developers check this// |
| 22:17.01 | Venemo | ah |
| 22:17.08 | Venemo | I screwed it up |
| 22:17.24 | *** topic/#harmattan by Venemo -> A cozy little place for pure harmattan device and development discussions | Developers, check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950 | MeeGo N9(|50) CE on its way, MOSLO still missing, discuss in #meego-arm please | Chanlogs: See ~logs , http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ |
| 22:17.31 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer51, now? |
| 22:18.26 | *** topic/#harmattan by Venemo -> A cozy little place for pure harmattan device and development discussions | Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950 | MeeGo N9(|50) CE on its way, MOSLO still missing, discuss in #meego-arm please | Chanlogs: See ~logs, http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ |
| 22:18.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes |
| 22:18.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | nice |
| 22:18.56 | *** mode/#harmattan [-o Venemo] by ChanServ |
| 22:19.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | thanks |
| 22:19.16 | Venemo | you're welcome |
| 22:20.24 | Mece | I hope those refs make it to doc.qt... that page is terrible in microb |
| 22:21.36 | Venemo | it's not that bad on a computer screen |
| 22:30.15 | Mece | Venemo, my N900 is my computer |
| 22:30.33 | Mece | Venemo, but no, it's fine on a computer |
| 22:31.03 | Venemo | Mece, oh, sorry. I meant it's a lot better on a laptop screen or a 20" screen |
| 22:31.18 | Mece | :) |
| 22:31.43 | Venemo | [00:30] <Mece> Venemo, my N900 is my computer ---> you don't have a laptop or a desktop computer? |
| 22:37.16 | Mece | i have a desktop computer but it's not here, and when I'm there I don't have time to go to it. |
| 22:37.26 | Venemo | okay |
| 22:37.49 | Mece | I use it remotely for compiling. |
| 22:38.17 | Venemo | sounds cool |
| 22:38.49 | Mece | I wouldn't say cool, but it works. |
| 22:39.08 | Mece | so... any ideas how to get a second terminal window on N950? |
| 22:41.37 | Venemo | seems that once can't launch 'meego-terminal' more than once... dunno |
| 22:45.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | isn't there a "new term" menu item just like for N900? |
| 22:48.07 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer51, nope |
| 22:48.49 | Mece | is there a menu? |
| 22:51.46 | Venemo | I don't think so |
| 22:52.14 | Mece | either way It's frustrating. |
| 22:52.50 | Mece | I have 4 terminals running on my N900 right now. |
| 22:54.19 | SpeedEvil | I have I think 5 |
| 22:54.29 | SpeedEvil | one local, four screen |
| 22:54.50 | Mece | 2 local 2screen here :) |
| 22:55.36 | Mece | dammit this pagestackwindow doean't work. |
| 22:58.57 | Mece | bah I give up. |
| 22:59.02 | Mece | good night. |
| 23:10.12 | Venemo | any of you figured out how to remap the hw kbd yet? |
| 23:12.02 | vandenoever | wonders if Page and PageStackWindow can be transparent |
| 23:12.28 | Venemo | vandenoever, what good would that be? |
| 23:12.56 | vandenoever | Venemo: if app is smaller than screen size, i'd like the rest of screen to have the theme background |
| 23:13.19 | Venemo | hm |
| 23:13.28 | Venemo | I can't think of any example |
| 23:16.00 | vandenoever | PageStackWindow has a property platformStyle, perhaps that can help |
| 23:29.19 | Venemo | I'm really beginning to like the N950 |
| 23:39.09 | DocScrutinizer51 | still my N900 beats the N950 hands down, usability wise and wrt joy of use |
| 23:39.52 | Venemo | 'wrt'? |
| 23:40.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~wrt |
| 23:40.24 | infobot | well, wrt is with respect to, or with regards to, or the Linksys WRT54G on which some people have successfully installed Asterisk. More information at http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+Linksys+WRT54G |
| 23:40.24 | vandenoever | Venemo: with regards to |
| 23:40.25 | GeneralAntilles | With Regards To |
| 23:40.47 | GeneralAntilles | Those all came at 7:40:24 here. |
| 23:41.23 | Venemo | ah |
| 23:41.29 | Venemo | thx Doc |
| 23:41.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | first 2 were 23 here :-) |
| 23:42.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | 1:40:23 though |
| 23:42.46 | Venemo | about joy of use, swipe is very joyful, and I like the concept of a news feed in my homescreen, containing all stuff |
