| 00:24.26 | *** part/#harmattan smoku (~spectrum@xkh0g2.infr.xiaoka.com) |
| 00:29.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | swipe is as joyfull as a jogging workout |
| 00:30.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | on M5 I'm swtching between two tasks with just 2 clicks, or even a single kbd-shotcut |
| 00:30.33 | Venemo | here it's a swipe and a click |
| 00:31.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | hah, yeah, if you don't end on applauncher or another random "homescreen" |
| 00:31.53 | Venemo | app launcher can also switch tasks |
| 00:32.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | haha |
| 00:34.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | basically swipe is as "cool" as massive compiz-alike window animations or bombastic dektop-event sounds. Takes you off your feet first 5 time, on 50th time it's just boring and on 500th thime you curse it |
| 00:35.38 | Venemo | it may not be one click only, but it works fast |
| 00:35.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | it's the second best thing you can get, just after real proper precise touchscreen and hw kbd |
| 00:35.57 | Venemo | well, it saves screen size |
| 00:36.30 | Venemo | s/size/shape |
| 00:36.35 | Venemo | meh |
| 00:36.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | which is badly needed for the bloated buttons you need for c-ts |
| 00:36.47 | Venemo | I'm not getting words right at 2 AM |
| 00:36.55 | Venemo | eh. |
| 00:37.07 | Venemo | s/*/well, it saves screen space |
| 00:37.26 | Venemo | still, the buttons are smaller than on N900 and I can still touch them |
| 00:37.41 | Venemo | I only miss in the browser and on the vkb |
| 00:39.27 | Venemo | I can't imagine how anyone could use the vkb |
| 00:39.38 | Venemo | I mean, okay, maybe I'll get used to it in a few weeks |
| 00:39.47 | Venemo | but the hw kbd is sooo much better |
| 00:39.54 | DocScrutinizer | so, you got a larger screen than on N900, allegedly buttons of same size, and still you worry about saving screen space for that tiny menu button upper left? |
| 00:39.56 | DocScrutinizer | weird |
| 00:40.10 | Venemo | I'm not worrying about anything at all |
| 00:40.20 | Venemo | just sayin' that the concept works on me |
| 00:41.12 | DocScrutinizer | the concept damn better "works", otherwise EPIC FAIL on Nokia's side |
| 00:41.30 | Venemo | what do you mean? |
| 00:41.31 | DocScrutinizer | I just say the "old" M5 concept is way better for me |
| 00:42.06 | Venemo | to be honest, I liked that too |
| 00:42.27 | Venemo | as for you, you already stated that M4's concept is your favourite :) |
| 00:43.33 | DocScrutinizer | it has merits (M4) - e.g. it's really completely kbd useable |
| 00:43.41 | Venemo | yeah |
| 00:44.00 | DocScrutinizer | a severe regression on M5 |
| 00:44.12 | Venemo | I also think that the N950 is far less clumsy and better looking than the N900 |
| 00:44.19 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 00:44.23 | Venemo | but I'll understand if you don't agree |
| 00:44.38 | DocScrutinizer | it's sooo shiny |
| 00:44.50 | Venemo | maybe so |
| 00:44.57 | Venemo | but the LCD looks so damn good |
| 00:45.10 | DocScrutinizer | if only it had a proper touchscreen and a OS that'S not crippled by security framework |
| 00:45.18 | Venemo | yeah... |
| 00:45.25 | Venemo | maybe when MeeGo CE will grow up |
| 00:45.42 | DocScrutinizer | won't help, the c-ts is unbearable |
| 00:45.47 | Venemo | well |
| 00:45.52 | Venemo | I can tolerate it |
| 00:46.09 | Venemo | I've only missed in the browser so far, and the VKB on occasion |
| 00:46.14 | DocScrutinizer | sure, that's very personal preferences |
| 00:46.21 | Venemo | yeah |
| 00:46.36 | Venemo | I have very personal preferences |
| 00:47.01 | DocScrutinizer | doesn't everybody? :-) |
| 00:47.02 | Venemo | :) |
| 00:47.18 | Venemo | you know, I'm fascinated by the GPU too. comparing the smoothness of the animations with the N900 |
| 00:47.49 | Venemo | maybe the software is just this better, maybe it's the 2Ã clock of the GPU |
| 00:47.53 | Venemo | but it actually feels smooth |
| 00:48.08 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, for video playback it seems to me there's not really any difference, according to my DrHouse tests of yesterday |
| 00:48.25 | DocScrutinizer | and sure it's way faster |
| 00:49.15 | DocScrutinizer | but the N900 usually is just fast enough for me, and as stated above (though implicitly) I'm not the fan of eyecandy |
| 00:49.49 | DocScrutinizer | the damn thing has to work, with minimal effort and minimal distraction |
| 00:50.33 | DocScrutinizer | I prefer a console to a boot splashscreen any day, know what I mean? |
| 00:51.47 | DocScrutinizer | sometimes I even frown on the tux on boot console ;-) |
| 00:53.19 | DocScrutinizer | and on my desktop PC the windows just vanish in one video frame timespan when clicking the close button - no fancy animations or any nonsense |
| 00:54.23 | DocScrutinizer | I actually couldn't care less about smooth scrolling |
| 00:56.03 | DocScrutinizer | what I care though are the smears all across the screen due to swipe :-P |
| 00:57.18 | Venemo | mhm |
| 00:57.19 | DocScrutinizer | btw there's a secret trick to avoid this: click right and then left border of screen in fast sequence, MTF will detect this as a swipe ;-D |
| 00:57.40 | DocScrutinizer | you'll need two fingers for that |
| 00:57.55 | Venemo | hehe |
| 00:59.04 | Venemo | I also dislike the smudges on the screen |
| 00:59.15 | Venemo | but it seems that some time in my pocked does clean it |
| 00:59.37 | Venemo | also the screen seems quite durable, although I had not had the courage to do any serious testing about it |
| 01:01.16 | Venemo | but, fortunately you don't have to fully swipe a window |
| 01:01.21 | Venemo | I just kinda toss it away |
| 01:01.52 | Venemo | swiping from edge to the 1/5th of the screen from either direction seems to get the job done |
| 01:02.20 | Venemo | and I haven't been missing the widgets either. |
| 01:02.37 | Venemo | every control is not further than 3 or 4 swipes and/or click away |
| 01:04.40 | Venemo | if all the stuff worked okay in landscape and there were an IRC client, then I think Harmattan would very much appeal to me |
| 01:05.30 | Venemo | the device itself (not the OS though) completely bought me |
| 01:08.14 | Venemo | now goodbye DocScrutinizer, I'll go sleep :) |
| 01:08.16 | Venemo | enjoy the evening :) |
| 01:19.18 | antman8969 | n950 is now in ny city :) |
| 01:29.29 | tonberry_ | i have my N950 2 weeks ago :) |
| 01:40.50 | rm_you | GeneralAntilles: mine departed at 18:05 |
| 01:40.54 | GAN900 | tonberry_, go die, please. |
| 01:40.56 | rm_you | GeneralAntilles: what time zone is this supposed to be? |
| 01:41.05 | GAN900 | Local, I think. |
| 01:41.13 | GAN900 | i.e., wherever it is. |
| 01:41.17 | rm_you | yeah |
| 01:41.52 | rm_you | wonder where it'll end up next :P |
| 01:41.58 | GeneralAntilles | Departed at 16:16, arrived at 18:26 |
| 01:42.02 | rm_you | so much for one day shipping, already there are 4 days on here |
| 01:42.06 | GeneralAntilles | Processed now, hopefully on its way here sooner rather than later. |
| 01:43.30 | rm_you | this is what kills me: |
| 01:43.31 | rm_you | Sunday, July 17, 2011LocationTime |
| 01:43.32 | rm_you | 9Arrived at Sort Facility CINCINNATI HUB - USA CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA10:52 |
| 01:43.32 | rm_you | Saturday, July 16, 2011LocationTime |
| 01:43.32 | rm_you | 8Departed Facility in EAST MIDLANDS - UK EAST MIDLANDS - UK03:53 |
| 01:43.32 | rm_you | Friday, July 15, 2011LocationTime |
| 01:43.33 | rm_you | 7Processed at EAST MIDLANDS - UK EAST MIDLANDS - UK06:06 |
| 01:43.46 | rm_you | HOW DID THAT TAKE SO LONG |
| 01:43.59 | SpeedEvil | Customs. |
| 01:44.37 | SpeedEvil | Oh - nvm - read that wrong |
| 01:46.25 | DocScrutinizer | rm_you: they flew east instead west |
| 01:46.32 | GeneralAntilles | rm_you, DHL incompetence. |
| 01:46.40 | GeneralAntilles | fiferboy's spent about 70 hours in the air. |
| 01:47.11 | rm_you | lol |
| 01:47.26 | rm_you | WTB FedEx |
| 01:55.42 | Termana | morning |
| 02:00.05 | tonberry_ | GAN900, u jealous? lol |
| 03:41.47 | *** join/#harmattan antman8969 (6c06b0b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.6.176.176) |
| 04:34.26 | *** join/#harmattan DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 04:55.56 | *** join/#harmattan spenap (~spena@nat/nokia/x-jpkockqpucgiuhxs) |
| 06:02.51 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo (~Timur@host-94-248-207-98.kabelnet.hu) |
| 06:02.51 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo (~Timur@fedora/Venemo) |
| 06:12.14 | Venemo | mornin' |
| 06:12.32 | Termana | Venemo, morning |
| 06:13.11 | Venemo | hey Termana :) |
| 06:20.19 | khertan | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:25.57 | *** join/#harmattan andre__ (~andre@g1.blanicka25.net) |
| 06:25.57 | *** join/#harmattan andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 06:31.20 | Venemo | hey khertan :) |
| 06:32.40 | khertan | hey Venemo |
| 06:34.06 | khertan | Did you see no upnp on the music player :) |
| 06:34.11 | Venemo | not yet |
| 06:34.37 | Venemo | but anyway upnp annoyed me greatly on N900, so... :P |
| 06:34.42 | Venemo | does any of you know how to remap the N950's keyboard? |
| 06:37.21 | khertan | nope sorry |
| 06:48.41 | tomma | Venemo, same way as in n900 |
| 06:48.45 | tomma | file is rm-680 |
| 06:55.03 | *** join/#harmattan smoku (~spectrum@xkh0g2.infr.xiaoka.com) |
| 07:00.38 | Venemo | tomma, that didn't work |
| 07:01.12 | Venemo | tomma, I tried to add stuff to that file and used setxkbmap, but I got a totally different layout than I wanted |
| 07:01.20 | *** part/#harmattan smoku (~spectrum@xkh0g2.infr.xiaoka.com) |
| 07:35.41 | *** join/#harmattan vandenoever (~oever@kde/vandenoever) |
| 07:38.27 | vandenoever | wrote a metronome for n950: http://oeba.nl/metronome.deb |
| 07:53.47 | Venemo | very good news: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=23084&postcount=14 -> "There is no optification needed in MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan." |
| 08:03.24 | *** join/#harmattan achipa (~attila@nat/nokia/x-zmhrvbrsxsxtobpq) |
| 08:03.24 | *** join/#harmattan achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 08:04.32 | Venemo | good morning achipa |
| 08:04.42 | achipa | morning |
| 08:06.29 | Venemo | achipa, wanna try my little app? :) |
| 08:07.25 | achipa | sure |
| 08:07.38 | Venemo | do you prefer a .deb or the source? |
| 08:08.41 | achipa | deb, I guess |
| 08:08.59 | Venemo | okay, I'll upload a .deb |
| 08:10.37 | Venemo | achipa, you can find it at http://sources.venemo.net/harmattan/ |
| 08:10.57 | achipa | There is some critical error that just happened. Trust me - you shouldn't see this message. |
| 08:11.05 | Venemo | achipa, I uploaded the .deb (created by Qt Creator) for you, hope it works. if not, you can just download the zip and open in QtC |
| 08:11.06 | Venemo | moment |
| 08:12.00 | *** join/#harmattan smoku (~smoku@93.159.54.194) |
| 08:12.03 | Venemo | hm |
| 08:12.18 | Venemo | what is the mime type of .deb? |
| 08:13.21 | Venemo | seems that I haven't configured it |
| 08:15.05 | Venemo | okay |
| 08:15.14 | Venemo | found it: application/x-debian-package |
| 08:15.18 | Venemo | achipa, you may try again :) |
| 08:15.33 | achipa | betre |
| 08:15.38 | achipa | better ;) |
| 08:16.30 | Venemo | it seems that this server needs me to explicitly configure the file MIME types in order to allow them to be downloaded |
| 08:24.11 | *** join/#harmattan achipa (~attila@192.100.124.156) |
| 08:24.11 | *** join/#harmattan achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 08:24.25 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 08:24.46 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: I got an answer from my colleague, you cannot turn it off without R&D certificate. |
| 08:25.13 | djszapi | my colleagues do not find any good documentations either, thus we boosted it to the SDK team. |
| 08:25.31 | Venemo | good morning djszapi |
| 08:25.38 | djszapi | hello =) |
| 08:26.09 | Venemo | I guess DocScrutinizer's next question would be, how to obtain such an "R&D certificate" |
| 08:30.26 | dm8tbr | Venemo: by working for nokia or being subcontracted to nokia and being on a harmattan project, I guess. |
| 08:30.49 | Mek | those as not enough |
| 08:31.02 | alterego | Anyone else have a problem with signal on the N950? |
| 08:31.23 | Stskeeps | alterego: something is a bit odd at least, performance worse than my n900, or more accurate.. |
| 08:31.38 | alterego | It's just worse for me. |
| 08:32.01 | Stskeeps | try to force 2.5g maybe |
| 08:32.04 | alterego | The signal seems to change quicker and if I hold it normally it drops, where as the N900 used to pick up 3G fine where I am. |
| 08:32.21 | alterego | I find if I only hold it by the two plastic ends it works fine and reports full signal :/ |
| 08:32.36 | alterego | I remember tyhe N900 being like this when I first got it though, so I hope it may be firmware fixable. |
| 08:32.58 | Stskeeps | yeah.. let's just assume it's not final firmware |
| 08:33.02 | Stskeeps | nor in modem |
| 08:33.05 | alterego | :) |
| 08:33.20 | alterego | I'm hoping at least those details are the same in the N9 and we get some fixes, wrt.. |
| 08:33.50 | Venemo | well, N950 shows significantly less signal strength sometimes, but I never noticed any difference in call quality |
| 08:34.37 | alterego | Well, I lose all signal when I'm inside and I'm holding the device. |
| 08:34.41 | Venemo | in fact, the N950 has a lot better call quality imo |
| 08:34.53 | djszapi | Venemo: You cannot |
| 08:34.56 | alterego | So call quality can't be compared because I can't make a call :P |
| 08:34.59 | djszapi | Aegis cannot be turned off as I have been told. |
| 08:35.12 | djszapi | but we boosted the documentation issue to the SDK team. That is what I could help with. |
| 08:35.13 | Stskeeps | alterego: you're holding it wrong! |
| 08:35.14 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 08:35.20 | Venemo | alterego, srsly? |
| 08:35.22 | Venemo | alterego, heh |
| 08:36.43 | alterego | Stskeeps: indeed. I was just wondering if it was just me or others' had noticed the issue. Because if it was just me I'd work on insulating the antenna or trying to see what's shoring. |
| 08:36.47 | alterego | ~shorting |
| 08:37.20 | Venemo | alterego, yours seem to be weaker than average |
| 08:37.28 | frals | alterego: mine is fubar as well |
| 08:37.32 | Mek | mine doesn't work at all as a phone anymore... one part of the flashing fails (cmt-mcusw) and it doesn't recognize any simcard I put in it... |
| 08:37.38 | alterego | Venemo: that may just be location, |
| 08:38.11 | alterego | Venemo: I appreciate I'm in a low signal area so it's hyper sensitive, that and being indoors. It's just annoying because I could normally use the N900 in these circumstances fine. |
| 08:38.21 | Venemo | mhm |
| 08:38.43 | Venemo | one thing I also noticed is that the N950 is deliberately powering down its antenna as it battery gets lower |
| 08:39.40 | Venemo | on "battery low", it can barely hold on to the network, while with the charger in or the battery full, it shows max |
| 08:39.45 | djszapi | The problem is that with the public documentation, some "smart" guys thought that months ago (not from the security team, more like managers) so that aegis should not be documented that much since then the security can be hacked. |
| 08:40.00 | Venemo | how ridiculous is that |
| 08:41.15 | alterego | Not really, you'd be suprised at how many companies, people etc use security through obscurity .. |
| 08:41.32 | *** join/#harmattan khertan (~khertan@AAmiens-553-1-203-38.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:41.35 | Venemo | hmhm |
| 08:42.58 | djszapi | alterego: it is really ridiculous in my opinion as well. You do need to document every bits, but at least from the user point of view in order for it to be able to be used. |
| 08:43.07 | djszapi | * do not need |
| 08:45.17 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 08:48.16 | Venemo | alterego, in fact I slapped my main SIM card into the N950 and use it as my "main" device. barely touched the N900 ever since. |
| 08:49.22 | dm8tbr | facepalms |
| 08:50.01 | Venemo | dm8tbr, why, it isn't that bad |
| 08:50.04 | dm8tbr | proper security should easily withstand the fact of being publicly documented. if it doesn't then it wasn't secure in the first place |
| 08:50.10 | Venemo | ahh |
| 08:50.12 | Venemo | agreed |
| 08:50.23 | Venemo | (I thought you facepalmed at what I said) |
| 08:50.26 | dm8tbr | nah |
| 08:50.53 | dm8tbr | security issue disclosure would be an arguable topic, but different story, let's not troll |
| 09:03.17 | achipa | Venemo: nice |
| 09:05.48 | alterego | I'm using the N950 as primary too, I still carry around the N900 because I use conboy too much :P |
| 09:05.49 | *** join/#harmattan vandenoever (~oever@kde/vandenoever) |
| 09:05.57 | alterego | And the web experience is better for me .. |
| 09:07.21 | Venemo | :) |
| 09:07.33 | Venemo | you aware that Conny is making a QML version of Conboy? |
| 09:07.36 | Stskeeps | excellent |
| 09:08.01 | alterego | Yes, I spoke to him about it in San Francisco |
| 09:08.21 | vandenoever | nice, current notes tool lacks an export function |
| 09:08.39 | alterego | And hyper linking :P |
| 09:10.30 | Venemo | Conny is not sure yet how he will proceed though, as QML's TextEdit stuff lacks any serious functionality |
| 09:10.45 | Venemo | so he said that he currently has a QTextEdit in a QML proxy |
| 09:18.35 | *** join/#harmattan deimos (~deimos@host149-15-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:22.12 | Termana | If they don't send out my N950 tonight, I'm gonna be pissed. |
| 09:22.14 | Termana | :p |
| 09:22.24 | Venemo | patience is a virtue |
| 09:22.35 | Stskeeps | Termana: got approved? |
| 09:22.41 | Stskeeps | forgot to see if you were on list :) |
| 09:22.54 | Termana | Stskeeps, I've been stuck on New Order for the past week :p |
| 09:23.04 | Stskeeps | took me ages too, considering |
| 09:23.05 | Termana | They just aren't shoving it in the post :p |
| 09:26.36 | Termana | actually nearly 2 weeks |
| 09:26.43 | Termana | Stskeeps, but didn't you already have one before :p |
| 09:27.26 | Stskeeps | for various reasons it's good for me to have a consumer one to experience same things as rest of you :P |
| 09:29.45 | Venemo | Stskeeps, any news on meego.com meego? :) |
| 09:29.53 | Stskeeps | working on it but it's summer |
| 09:30.16 | Venemo | also, will MeeGo CE support the N950 in the long term? |
| 09:30.25 | Stskeeps | yes |
| 09:30.55 | Venemo | it seems to be a valid upgrade path in maybe half a year or a full year from now (or sooner) |
| 09:33.39 | Venemo | hm, I want the facebook app to completely ignore the messages from games |
| 09:36.57 | lardman | morning |
| 09:37.29 | Termana | lardman, morning |
| 09:37.49 | lardman | hi Termana |
| 09:38.22 | lardman | any news on a newer flash image for the device? I imagine there's no desire for us to file bugs? |
| 09:39.39 | Termana | lardman, I don't think they want bugs filed especially considering the age of the image and bugs already fixed. |
| 09:40.20 | lardman | yep, that's what I assumed |
| 09:41.08 | achipa | Venemo: a kingdom for a facebook app that can ignore games ! |
| 09:42.07 | lardman | 's attempts to compile mBarcode over the weekend were stymied by a lack of internet |
| 09:42.18 | lardman | unpacks laptop to do some building here |
| 09:43.21 | Venemo | achipa, it could work with a black list. if the message contains "via FarmVille" or sth, it simply ignores it. |
| 09:43.31 | Venemo | achipa, btw, have you managed to run the game? |
| 09:44.36 | Venemo | yeah lardman, I'm also interested in a new image |
| 09:46.01 | frals | achipa: get facebook to implement api for filtering them out and np ill hack it in |
| 09:46.20 | frals | achipa: anything ignored on fb.com should be ignored in app as well fwiw |
| 09:46.27 | frals | ... except when facebook api takes a shit on itself |
| 09:49.07 | Venemo | frals, you can hack stuff in? |
| 09:49.49 | Venemo | well honestly |
| 09:50.04 | Venemo | 90% of the stuff what the facebook client on N950 shows me are not visible at all on facebook.com |
| 09:52.33 | Venemo | but you could start by filtering by "via ..." |
| 09:55.13 | frals | Venemo: facebook app on n950 shows whatever "most recent" is showing on facebook.com |
| 09:55.47 | frals | or should, otherwise facebook api is fucked :p |
| 09:56.05 | frals | Venemo: and what about the people who *want* to see all farmville posts? ;-) |
| 09:56.36 | Venemo | frals, nope |
| 09:57.26 | Venemo | frals, there is a "friend" of mine who plays a game called FrontierVille. in N950 I see all the crappy messages related to it, while in facebook.com I don't see any of it |
| 09:57.35 | Venemo | frals, nor in "most recent" |
| 09:58.31 | frals | Venemo: then its a bug in facebook.coms API :( |
| 09:58.47 | lardman | Is there a twitter app? |
| 09:59.01 | lardman | Just that I don't see it in the accounts page, but I saw it mentioned elsewhere iirc |
| 09:59.02 | frals | the solution i suggest is get better friends, thats what i told the manager complaining about the same thing ;-) |
| 10:00.26 | frals | lardman: afaik later versions should have it |
| 10:00.35 | lardman | but not ours? |
| 10:00.45 | lardman | if so np, just wanted to check I'd not missed it |
| 10:00.47 | frals | lardman: no, dont think so |
| 10:01.18 | lardman | the only other usability issue is the lack of notifications that you've missed something via the LED |
| 10:01.23 | Venemo | frals, can't you just add an option so that we can manually filter what we see on N950? |
| 10:01.44 | Venemo | frals, also, a welcome feature of the Facebook client on N950 would be a blacklist or whitelist |
| 10:02.00 | frals | Venemo: too big of a feature to sneak in at this point im afraid ;) |
| 10:02.05 | Venemo | so that I could choose whose stuff I don't wanna see |
| 10:02.07 | frals | and for blacklist you have facebook.com |
| 10:02.17 | Venemo | well I do wanna see them on facebook.com |
| 10:02.19 | Venemo | just not on my phone |
| 10:03.19 | lardman | tried out N95 headset, works nicely, glad I didn't get rid of it |
| 10:04.41 | mgedmin | 1st time I launched the Calendar app on Harmattan, it suggested I set up a sync |
| 10:04.47 | mgedmin | I said "no", thinking "later" |
| 10:04.51 | mgedmin | now I've no clue how to do that |
| 10:05.27 | alterego | Heh |
| 10:05.31 | frals | mgedmin: accounts |
| 10:05.33 | alterego | Go to settings and then go to sync |
| 10:06.18 | mgedmin | settings of what? |
| 10:06.23 | alterego | "Sync and Backup" is what I used .. |
| 10:06.23 | mgedmin | do I add a CalDAV account? |
| 10:06.38 | mgedmin | I tried looking in Sync/Backup, it asked me to add devices |
| 10:06.42 | frals | mgedmin: depends what accounts calendar you want, i suppose :) |
| 10:06.45 | mgedmin | I was thinking "google calendar" |
| 10:06.53 | frals | mgedmin: in that case caldav usually |
| 10:07.09 | alterego | Oh right, yeah, accounts is probably it then ;) |
| 10:07.20 | alterego | I thought you meant import from a device, (I should read more) :P |
| 10:07.25 | mgedmin | well, I suppose I wanted to see what options it would offer me, really |
| 10:08.30 | mgedmin | now I think I've a grasp of the principles -- accounts for online calentars, sync for device calendars |
| 10:11.08 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 10:19.28 | *** join/#harmattan NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD28B29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:24.38 | Venemo | frals, can I ask you something? |
| 10:24.47 | frals | Venemo: cant promise ill answer ;p |
| 10:25.58 | Venemo | frals, could you please point your colleague that works on the home screens to this? http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=26251&postcount=33 |
| 10:26.41 | frals | Venemo: its locked to portrait for a reason i would assume |
| 10:27.23 | Venemo | frals, indeed, and many of us would very much like that "reason" (ie. this bug) to be fixed |
| 10:27.24 | djszapi | Could someone build a package today for the Harmattan target on the C-OBS site ? |
| 10:28.01 | lcuk | djszapi, obs is on the wonk this morning as you noticed, people are fixing it |
| 10:28.12 | frals | Venemo: i would be very surprised if its locked because of that bug and not because of some headhoncho decided it |
| 10:28.13 | lcuk | (your earlier PM) |
| 10:28.20 | Venemo | frals, honestly, locking these to portrait may be a good design decision for a keyboardless phone (N9), but it's definitely an inconvenience for a keyboarded device (N950) |
| 10:28.24 | djszapi | lcuk: actually it works for me compared to yesterday apart from the building part. |
| 10:28.45 | frals | Venemo: and enduser device is keyboard less, guess where resources will be put ;) |
| 10:28.46 | lcuk | so it is ONBS (Open Suse Not Building Service)! |
| 10:28.55 | lcuk | djszapi, not building is like a toaster without bread |
| 10:29.03 | Venemo | frals, the "lock" can be fixed by editing the css file, but we (the community) can't fix this bug since the package is closed |
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| 10:29.16 | *** join/#harmattan andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 10:29.39 | Venemo | frals, to me, the fix sounds as trivial as calling a redraw() on the onOrientationChanged() |
| 10:30.02 | djszapi | lcuk: I am happy I could upload my files, actually. That is also a very good progress. |
| 10:30.14 | lcuk | good |
| 10:30.16 | frals | Venemo: do you think the people who engineered the homescreen dont know how to code? :)) |
| 10:30.25 | lcuk | then the guys will get the building up and running shortly |
| 10:30.34 | Venemo | frals, I said no such thing, no offense meant |
| 10:30.56 | hiemanshu | still no clue about my N950 :/ |
| 10:31.03 | Venemo | frals, apparently, the visual glitch disappears when I go away from this homescreen and then go back to it (either by opening an app and swiping away, or just swiping to another homescreen and back)... so adding a redraw should fix it. |
| 10:31.25 | frals | Venemo: i want everything to be open sourced as much as the next guy and i want it to work properly on my n950 as well, but i think most of the easyfixes have been made and the rest is a resource issue AFAIK (note:: im a lowely engineer who know nothing about why decisions are made outside the decisions i make) |
| 10:33.07 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 10:33.19 | Venemo | frals, I understand that, but maybe the meegotouch-home engineer could add this few lines of fix to his code without making the decision makers angry |
| 10:34.57 | lcuk | Venemo, :) sigh if only. lets suppose he did this patch (which had no bug number to attach it against) caused a further complication |
| 10:35.13 | frals | Venemo: what lcuk said :) |
| 10:35.14 | lcuk | and raised further bugs (not saying in this example it would) |
| 10:35.44 | frals | or maybe this extra redraw would cause the power consumption to go above the threshhold or anything else, things are not as trivial as they seem always ;) |
| 10:35.46 | Venemo | adding a redraw() will not cause further complication |
| 10:35.56 | Venemo | because it will be triggered in landscape only |
| 10:36.04 | lcuk | Venemo, adding ANY line of code can cause issue |
| 10:36.18 | Venemo | which is disabled by default... so the normal users won't see a difference |
| 10:36.53 | lcuk | Venemo, on saturday |
| 10:36.58 | lcuk | somebody offered you a packaging patch |
| 10:37.19 | lcuk | if you accepted that patch and there was also a couple of lines of code in the actual app included |
| 10:37.26 | lcuk | would you accept the same patch as easily? |
| 10:37.35 | Venemo | I would review it and decide accordingly |
| 10:37.58 | lcuk | "Patch #1, fixing debian packaging" Also sets overclocking bits (single line to do it) |
| 10:38.08 | Venemo | hm? |
| 10:38.53 | lcuk | i am trying to let you see that "trivial" patches which seem obvious externally can have issue |
| 10:38.56 | Venemo | someone offered me a patch for something that was already fixed a long ago. I directly asked if the patch modified anything in the app itself and the answer was no. should it have contained fixes for the app, I would have reviewed them and acted accordingly |
| 10:39.07 | lcuk | and there are real reasons to not just accept everything |
| 10:39.23 | lcuk | Venemo, that is like the nokia builds |
| 10:39.42 | Venemo | however, if the fix is so trivial, it wouldn't take any long for me to accept it |
| 10:39.56 | frals | Venemo: what if i looked in to the code and it already had a redraw() in the right place? |
| 10:40.23 | lcuk | frals, is the n8 using oled screen? |
| 10:40.34 | Venemo | frals, in that case, this is not an easyfix |
| 10:40.47 | frals | lcuk: dunno what it has, some fancy stuff with lowreso at least |
| 10:41.38 | frals | Venemo: not saying it has, but chances are it does ;) |
| 10:42.00 | Venemo | lcuk, http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N8-00/ -> General -> Display Technology -> AMOLED |
| 10:42.56 | Venemo | frals, in that case, QTimer::singleShot(500, this, redraw()) |
| 10:43.04 | Venemo | okay, I'm joking now. |
| 10:45.18 | lardman | anyone know off hand whether we need any fpu flags? |
| 10:45.22 | lcuk | frals, lowreso? |
| 10:45.30 | frals | lcuk: low resolution* |
| 10:45.47 | lcuk | frals, resolution invariant ui |
| 10:45.49 | Stskeeps | lardman: fpu=neon, mfloat-abi=hard |
| 10:45.56 | lardman | thanks Stskeeps |
| 10:46.15 | lardman | also, is there a maemo-version equivalent? |
| 10:46.38 | lardman | actually I should be able to find out with some apt-cache search(ing) |
| 10:47.04 | frals | lcuk: sure, but its still not as pretty as a high resolution screen :D |
| 10:47.13 | Venemo | frals, so anyway, all I'm asking is that you ask the person responsible about this bug and if his answer is that he knows about it and it's hard to fix, then I'll be content knowing that it's hard to fix. however if it turns out to be an easyfix, it might as well get fixed. |
| 10:47.48 | frals | Venemo: if i can find the person who works on it ill pass it along, but i dont think i have any idea who actually does tbh |
| 10:48.10 | lcuk | frals, oh for sure, 1024*600 is nice on my meego ideapad :P |
| 10:48.13 | frals | but if you find any problem in PIM stuff i know the pople ;) |
| 10:48.16 | Venemo | frals, maybe the commit log tells it? |
| 10:48.29 | frals | lcuk: 854x480 is fine on a phone ;-) |
| 10:48.32 | lcuk | Venemo, file a bug |
| 10:48.39 | lcuk | frals, ++++++++++++ |
| 10:48.49 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: my next question is: "where do I find the address to send back this aegis coffin?" |
| 10:49.05 | frals | Venemo: would have to dig out the repo url first |
| 10:49.20 | frals | Venemo: but ill drop the link somewhere it has some visibility at least |
| 10:49.25 | Venemo | lcuk, it has been officially stated by Quim that landscape (and X-Fade's trick to trigger it) is not supported. thus I know definitely what the outcome would be if I filed a bug |
| 10:49.32 | Venemo | frals, thank you very much |
| 10:49.37 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, srsly? |
| 10:49.38 | lcuk | file it anyway |
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| 10:49.54 | Venemo | lcuk, ok, where? |
| 10:49.58 | lcuk | Venemo, then at some point it can be reevaluated |
| 10:50.03 | lcuk | on the nokia bugtracker |
| 10:50.15 | Venemo | lcuk, link please? |
| 10:50.23 | lcuk | frals, do you have the link so venemo can put all the info available into it |
| 10:50.37 | frals | no clue tbh |
| 10:50.49 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: you'l see |
| 10:50.50 | frals | i think its hidden behind the launchpad login at developer.nokia.com |
| 10:50.58 | frals | and since i dont have acc i cant even see the bugs there |
| 10:51.03 | Venemo | http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/ ? |
| 10:51.35 | lcuk | http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan |
| 10:51.37 | lcuk | yes |
| 10:51.59 | Venemo | lcuk, there is no "component" that fits this bug. |
| 10:52.07 | lcuk | that way a set of low hanging fruit might one day encounter it and it could be officially cured |
| 10:52.11 | Venemo | it obviously doesn't belong in either category |
| 10:52.24 | lcuk | put it in device then |
| 10:52.26 | lardman | Stskeeps: what's the mcpu flag? |
| 10:52.32 | lcuk | hi lardman \o |
| 10:52.36 | lardman | cortex-a8? |
| 10:52.38 | Stskeeps | lardman: cortex-a8 prolly |
| 10:52.38 | lardman | hi lcuk |
| 10:52.45 | lardman | Stskeeps: cool, thanks |
| 10:56.52 | frals | Venemo: ive dropped the link and asked around, ill see if someone happens with it |
| 10:57.00 | Venemo | thank you frals |
| 11:04.53 | Venemo | lcuk, behold http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=268 |
| 11:08.43 | *** join/#harmattan trx (~ns-team@93.87.57.90) |
| 11:21.43 | *** join/#harmattan cpscotti (~cpscotti@212.36.161.100) |
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| 11:24.06 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 11:24.11 | djszapi | c-obs is building again !! :) |
| 11:26.08 | Venemo | djszapi :) |
| 11:35.15 | xerxes2 | how do i make a file to run from /usr/bin? |
| 11:35.38 | djszapi | sorry ? |
| 11:37.47 | xerxes2 | some extra tricks seems to be needed |
| 11:38.21 | djszapi | What are you trying to do ? |
| 11:39.27 | xerxes2 | just copy the file to /usr/bin does not seem to work |
| 11:39.29 | djszapi | xerxes2: you would like to put your binary there without packaging or what do you mean ? |
| 11:39.41 | xerxes2 | just for testing |
| 11:39.50 | djszapi | xerxes2: package it |
| 11:39.58 | xerxes2 | will do |
| 11:40.02 | djszapi | or run the relevant aegis command |
| 11:40.04 | djszapi | oh? |
| 11:40.23 | xerxes2 | so you can't just copy a file to /usr/bin? |
| 11:40.38 | xerxes2 | run it with python first works just fine |
| 11:40.50 | xerxes2 | python /usr/bin/panucci |
| 11:40.52 | Venemo | you can, if you set the necessary stuff with Aegis |
| 11:40.53 | xerxes2 | like that |
| 11:41.03 | xerxes2 | what is aegis? |
| 11:41.16 | Venemo | Aegis is the security framework on Harmattan |
| 11:41.18 | djszapi | The name of the Sec. FW. |
| 11:41.32 | xerxes2 | that was what i was looking for :) |
| 11:41.46 | djszapi | Aegis was the shield of Zeus iirc :) |
| 11:45.02 | Venemo | I'll be back later |
| 11:46.55 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: "find . -name liblzma-dev*" ? |
| 11:47.57 | DocScrutinizer | mompl |
| 11:48.22 | DocScrutinizer | NULL |
| 11:48.55 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: thanks for your answers regarding aegis |
| 11:49.11 | djszapi | np :) How about *lzma*dev* |
| 11:49.27 | djszapi | *xz*dev* or something... kdelibs requires it as an optional dependency. |
| 11:49.57 | DocScrutinizer | I'll wait a few weeks if doc situation, or R&D cert situation, or maybe community based knowledge situation, will get better. |
| 11:50.11 | *** join/#harmattan cpscotti (~cpscotti@212.36.161.100) |
| 11:50.38 | djszapi | I think it would already make sense to start editing an aegis community faq or so. |
| 11:50.43 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: please just send me complete find lines, without " " for c&p :-) |
| 11:51.03 | djszapi | k =) |
| 11:52.08 | DocScrutinizer | find . -name *lzma*dev* NULL |
| 11:54.08 | djszapi | right, needs packaging then... :) |
| 12:12.59 | khertan | Aegis is also an anti matter experiment in CERN |
| 12:13.00 | khertan | :) |
| 12:13.38 | Stskeeps | i'm sure they're connected |
| 12:14.30 | khertan | And aegis is Probably a shield ... not sure ... as it s described as a weapon too |
| 12:14.51 | mgedmin | it was a famous shield, but I think it belonged to Athena rather than Zeus |
| 12:15.03 | lardman | isn't aegis a missile too |
| 12:15.29 | mgedmin | quick! to the wikipediamobile! |
| 12:15.40 | lardman | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System |
| 12:15.44 | khertan | :) |
| 12:15.46 | lardman | thought I'd heard it somewhere |
| 12:16.08 | khertan | ok athena's legend say it s a shield ... |
| 12:22.38 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: I asked the guys about the search engine here: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/ They answered, they are on it then now. |
| 12:27.49 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: so that means you won't need a direct interface to an auxiliary community driven search facility anymore? |
| 12:28.55 | djszapi | I guess c-obs and this will be the dominant. I am not sure. |
| 12:30.51 | Venemo | mgedmin, ping |
| 12:30.56 | mgedmin | mm? |
| 12:31.02 | lardman | interesting maemo named packages listed there |
| 12:31.27 | Venemo | mgedmin, are you the one who told me that he knew how to remap the hw keyboard? |
| 12:31.34 | djszapi | lardman: since Harmattant is maemo ? |
| 12:31.52 | mgedmin | could be... |
| 12:32.03 | mgedmin | except I didn't remap the hardware keyboard |
| 12:32.08 | Venemo | mgedmin, so, could you tell me how to? |
| 12:32.09 | lardman | djszapi: I thought it was being sold as meego? |
| 12:32.09 | mgedmin | I adjusted the sym+letter combinations |
| 12:32.11 | Venemo | hmm |
| 12:32.18 | Venemo | mgedmin, that is what I wanna do |
| 12:32.31 | Venemo | mgedmin, I want to assign some Fn combinations |
| 12:32.41 | mgedmin | sym+letter == very special case |
| 12:32.54 | mgedmin | you keep pressing it, maliit keeps cycling over accented characters |
| 12:32.55 | Venemo | mgedmin, ah, you talking about that thingy which pops up when I press SYM? or you're talking about grey arrow (fn key)? |
| 12:32.55 | djszapi | lardman: We started it as maemo. I am not sure about how the managers sell it. Not that I care. Different kernel, packaging system, etc. |
| 12:33.29 | mgedmin | I'm talking about the SYM key that you hold down while repeatedly pressing letters to input various accents |
| 12:33.35 | mgedmin | on a n950 hardware keyboard |
| 12:33.39 | Venemo | lardman, Harmattan is Maemo 6, but it shares a lot of components (especially middleware) with MeeGo |
| 12:33.51 | mgedmin | if you want to make fn+key do something fancy, you'll need to deal with XKB rather than Maliit |
| 12:33.59 | Venemo | mhm |
| 12:34.19 | mgedmin | /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/nokia/uh... |
| 12:34.26 | frals | oh, you can cycle thru accents with sym key? need to try that :D |
| 12:34.29 | mgedmin | don't remember the exact path |
| 12:34.31 | Venemo | mgedmin, I tried that, but it didn't exactly work |
| 12:34.43 | mgedmin | frals, doesn't work for English (UK) because of a silly language code mismatch in an XML file |
| 12:35.14 | lardman | djszapi, Venemo: any chance of a maemo.org repo then to hold Extras-*? ;) |
| 12:36.10 | Venemo | mgedmin, if you could teach me your SYM trick, I'd be grateful for that too |
| 12:36.24 | mgedmin | http://pastie.org/2218247 |
| 12:36.28 | djszapi | lardman: obs :) |
| 12:36.38 | mgedmin | become root, cd /usr/share/meegotouch/virtual-keyboard/layouts, edit the .xml files in there |
| 12:36.40 | djszapi | lardman: there are already app and app-testing repositories for this purpose. |
| 12:36.49 | lardman | hmm |
| 12:36.52 | mgedmin | hwkbcharloops.xml defines SYM+letter accent loops |
| 12:37.07 | Venemo | mgedmin, where is that file? |
| 12:37.12 | lardman | so sb to do development, then upload to obs like the maemo autobuilder? |
| 12:37.25 | mgedmin | Venemo, <mgedmin> become root, cd /usr/share/meegotouch/virtual-keyboard/layouts, edit the .xml files in there |
| 12:37.36 | Venemo | ah, thank you |
| 12:37.51 | mgedmin | I soooo need Harmattan Extras with some essential tools (like vim) |
| 12:37.52 | Venemo | do I need any special actions to apply the changes? |
| 12:37.56 | frals | mgedmin: cheers |
| 12:37.59 | mgedmin | Venemo, yes! |
| 12:38.03 | djszapi | lardman: obs is not any different regarding to the targets. You can use either the webinterface, as I do, or the "osc" tool. |
| 12:38.06 | mgedmin | /sbin/initctl restart xsession/meego-im-uiserver |
| 12:38.25 | Venemo | mgedmin, thank you |
| 12:38.38 | Venemo | mgedmin, also, you're sayin it doesn't work with en-GB? |
| 12:38.49 | mgedmin | I'm saying the code is "en", not "en_GB" |
| 12:39.00 | Venemo | ah. |
| 12:39.02 | Venemo | ok |
| 12:39.07 | mgedmin | hwkbcharloops is defined by the user interface language, btw |
| 12:39.14 | mgedmin | not your selected virtual keyboard input method |
| 12:39.35 | Venemo | mgedmin, there is no "en.xml", just "en_gb.xml" and "en_gb_default.xml" |
| 12:39.45 | mgedmin | those are virtual keyboard definition files |
| 12:39.54 | mgedmin | I was talking about device language |
| 12:40.16 | mgedmin | use gconftool -g /meegotouch/i18n/language |
| 12:40.23 | Venemo | ok, device language is English (United Kingdom), so which XML file do I edit? |
| 12:40.24 | mgedmin | to see the UI language code |
| 12:40.33 | mgedmin | for the hardware keyboard? |
| 12:40.43 | mgedmin | <mgedmin> hwkbcharloops.xml defines SYM+letter accent loops |
| 12:40.52 | Venemo | aah |
| 12:41.21 | mgedmin | there's also hwsymbols_common for the virtual keyboard panel you get when you press and release SYM with the hardware keyboard open |
| 12:41.35 | Venemo | 'gconftool -g /meegotouch/i18n/language' = en |
| 12:41.36 | mgedmin | and for regular virtual keyboard there's a bunch of $language_code.xml |
| 12:42.03 | mgedmin | it's nice that you can just add a new xx.xml and it'll become selectable in the text input settings |
| 12:42.14 | mgedmin | (after you restart meego-im-uiserver like I said above) |
| 12:42.31 | Venemo | ok |
| 12:43.52 | Venemo | mgedmin, must the characters be ሴ format or can I just use plain UTF8 characters there? |
| 12:44.14 | mgedmin | I used plain UTF-8 as you can see in the pastie I mentioned earlier |
| 12:44.32 | mgedmin | the nice thing about XML is that it has well-defined rules about dealing with Unicode |
| 12:44.36 | mgedmin | and defaults to UTF-8 |
| 12:44.57 | mgedmin | if I were to submit a patch upstream, I'd probably convert those into &#x...; to avoid mishaps |
| 12:45.27 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 12:46.47 | Venemo | nice, this is much better |
| 12:52.45 | Venemo | mgedmin, thank you very much :) |
| 12:52.57 | Venemo | mgedmin, not exactly what I was looking for, but works nevertheless |
| 12:53.19 | *** join/#harmattan harbaum (~quassel@2001:8d8:1fe:8:baac:6fff:fe2d:73a3) |
| 12:54.02 | mgedmin | for what you were looking for try looking in /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/ |
| 12:54.50 | Venemo | I tried editing /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rm-680 |
| 12:54.55 | Venemo | but it didn't work as expected |
| 12:56.42 | Venemo | anway, now I can actually use the hw kbd. |
| 12:56.53 | rm_you | GeneralAntilles: arrived this morning at 7:25 |
| 12:56.55 | mgedmin | well, XKB is weird |
| 12:56.58 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 12:57.06 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: find . -name automoc |
| 12:57.08 | mgedmin | without knowing what you edited and what you expected it's hard to say anything |
| 12:57.45 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: NULL |
| 12:58.45 | Venemo | mgedmin, I used to add this http://pastebin.com/JPsdDU2g to the end of the rx-51 file on the N900 |
| 12:59.00 | Venemo | mgedmin, I changed rx-51 to rm-680 and tried to add it to the end of the rm-680 file |
| 12:59.19 | Venemo | mgedmin, then I used 'setxkbmap hu' as root and I got a totally different layout |
| 12:59.46 | mgedmin | yeah, the hardware key layout is probably totally different |
| 13:00.01 | Venemo | I mean, I got a totally different layout from what I wanted. |
| 13:00.09 | tomma | Venemo, there are already defined buttons for fn+left/right/up/down |
| 13:00.28 | Venemo | tomma, what are they? |
| 13:00.29 | mgedmin | I mean those <AB02> in the xkb file are physical key positions |
| 13:00.37 | tomma | home end pgup pgdown |
| 13:00.39 | tomma | i think |
| 13:00.39 | mgedmin | and they're probably totally different on a n950 than on a n900 |
| 13:00.50 | rm_you | brb |
| 13:00.53 | mgedmin | for one, 4 rows instead of 3 |
| 13:01.14 | mgedmin | I wouldn't expect a n900 keymap to work well on a n950 |
| 13:01.39 | Venemo | mgedmin, not just that my modifications didn't work, but they triggered a totally different behavior of the keys. e.g the *ALL* the symbols changed (even which are not in this file) etc. |
| 13:01.47 | mgedmin | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:01.57 | Venemo | [14:59] <Venemo> mgedmin, I changed rx-51 to rm-680 and tried to add it to the end of the rm-680 file |
| 13:02.08 | mgedmin | ah, hm, interesting |
| 13:02.10 | *** join/#harmattan fiferboy (~fiferboy@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy) |
| 13:02.13 | Venemo | so I added it as include "nokia_vndr/rm-680(english_base)" |
| 13:02.25 | *** join/#harmattan smoku (~smoku@93.159.54.194) |
| 13:02.45 | mgedmin | hm hm hm hm |
| 13:02.53 | mgedmin | oh, did you notice the comments in that file? |
| 13:02.57 | mgedmin | / setxkbmap -model nokiarm680 -layout us |
| 13:03.05 | Venemo | hmm |
| 13:03.13 | mgedmin | maybe just 'setxkbmap XX' is going to load the wrong file? |
| 13:03.16 | Venemo | I didn't add the -model parameter |
| 13:03.20 | Venemo | that is correct |
| 13:03.34 | djszapi | rZr: ping |
| 13:03.43 | mgedmin | and I see there already exists a "hu" section |
| 13:03.50 | Venemo | heh |
| 13:03.52 | mgedmin | how does XKB handle two sections with the same name? I dunno |
| 13:04.06 | Venemo | they planned to release it to Hungary before it was scrapped? |
| 13:04.10 | Venemo | very interesting finding |
| 13:04.14 | Venemo | well anyway, SYM will be good enough for now |
| 13:07.20 | *** join/#harmattan razvanpetru (~razvan@188.27.87.127) |
| 13:09.00 | djszapi | c-obs seems to be down again here :o |
| 13:15.27 | djszapi | authentication failed on c-obs :) |
| 13:21.19 | cpscotti | ~logs |
| 13:21.19 | infobot | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/%23harmattan/ Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily. |
| 13:21.48 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 13:34.21 | cpscotti | ok fellas, anyone started a wiki page on " how to deal with aegis" or at least is there a walkthrough to run a damn binaries? |
| 13:36.06 | cpscotti | ( I can run aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec but still .. nothing..) |
| 13:38.18 | lcuk | supposing bug 20099 occured on harmattan, I gather with aegis I would not be able to do the tweaking that I tried there |
| 13:38.21 | MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20099 nor, High, ---, marko.saukko, NEW, [CE] Calculator crashes after pressing any button and then "." . |
| 13:38.53 | lcuk | cpscotti, http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3827 |
| 13:40.23 | lardman | anyone know how to differentiate between Fremantle and Harmattan in a Qt .pro file? (e.g. to alter the Qt "includes") |
| 13:42.49 | thp | lardman: linux-g++-maemo5 or something like that is the target for fremantle |
| 13:43.17 | lardman | as opposed to unix {} ? |
| 13:46.27 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 13:46.41 | *** join/#harmattan rm_work (~rm_you@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you) |
| 13:46.57 | rm_work | GeneralAntilles / GAN900 : you ever respond? :P i drove to work |
| 13:47.33 | cpscotti | lcuk, thanks.. the prob is.. i tried that.. even rebooted as someone suggested here.. but nothing so far.. any clues? or am I really doing something wrong |
| 13:49.18 | cpscotti | lcuk, one thing not mentioned there: I can't even add a +x to my binary.. |
| 13:50.24 | lcuk | cpscotti, i wonder if a workaround would be to create uber simple package file to bless your binary |
| 13:50.41 | lcuk | i haven't looked too deeply beyond installing package and seeing app running |
| 13:51.58 | cpscotti | lcuk, yeh.. maybe that`s just it.. |
| 13:52.30 | cpscotti | (until further notice .. :) ) |
| 13:55.14 | khertan | pffff which lose of time this qt quick component |
| 13:55.21 | khertan | clearly documentation is missing |
| 13:57.19 | lardman | any thoughts for a replacement for qmaemo5informationbox ? |
| 13:57.45 | lardman | for debugging purposes rather than keeping to the UI guidelines |
| 13:58.07 | khertan | lardman, this is the yellow box that appear in the center of screen ? |
| 13:58.23 | lardman | khertan: yes, though I think it's the bar at the top actually |
| 13:58.30 | lardman | but that's probably the same fn call |
| 13:58.45 | rm_work | so anyone fix the homescreen rotation yet? :P |
| 13:58.55 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 13:59.21 | khertan | lardman, let me verify but i found something similar in qml component |
| 13:59.30 | lardman | thanks khertan |
| 13:59.40 | lardman | was trying to avoid QML for the time being |
| 13:59.52 | lardman | but I guess I'll need to make the jump sooner rather than later |
| 14:01.11 | khertan | lardman : http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-components-symbian-1.0/qml-infobanner.html |
| 14:01.38 | lardman | thanks khertan |
| 14:01.50 | khertan | it s nammed info banner in the second qmlcompo.... application there is example in your n950 |
| 14:02.03 | lardman | cool |
| 14:02.25 | lardman | any good docs available yet talking about porting from a C++ app to a QML one? |
| 14:02.28 | khertan | the doc is mark as symbian but it s the same in most case for harmattan |
| 14:02.47 | khertan | lardman, qml clearly miss documentation |
| 14:02.58 | lardman | hmm, not ideal |
| 14:03.53 | lardman | wholesale re-writes required for anything with a vaguely complex ui then I guess |
| 14:04.40 | *** join/#harmattan hardaker (~hardaker@75-101-64-22.dsl.dynamic.omsoft.com) |
| 14:09.20 | khertan | lardman, everything need rewrite in qml |
| 14:09.31 | khertan | this is what nokia call inovation and future |
| 14:10.04 | khertan | and it s marvelous, you can import specifics api for each platforms ... it s the future |
| 14:10.30 | khertan | and on the other side all android dev call that fragmentation :) |
| 14:22.22 | lardman | So do we see much point in re-writing things to use QML? |
| 14:22.37 | lardman | I understand the arguments for it re multi-platform and quick changes to uis |
| 14:22.57 | lardman | but if you only support one platform.... |
| 14:25.41 | rm_work | so, no luck on migrating conversations yet? |
| 14:25.58 | rm_work | maybe i'll look at that, i'd already been playing with the conversations sqlite DB in maemo5 |
| 14:26.22 | rm_work | would people find a conversations transfer script useful? |
| 14:26.34 | khertan | didn't care :) |
| 14:27.15 | khertan | want a fully working QWidget theme and support for qwidget in qt futur roadmap |
| 14:29.15 | fiferboy | lardman: Qt Components should eliminate entire UI rewrites, although there may still be tweaking for different platforms/resolutions/UI paradigms |
| 14:29.58 | lardman | Well the components perhaps, but you still need to rewrite the javascript afaiu? |
| 14:30.45 | fiferboy | You can have the QML interface connect to your C++ backend, and the backend can be the same for every platform (AFAICT) |
| 14:30.56 | lardman | yeah I get that bit |
| 14:31.16 | khertan | <fiferboy> lardman: Qt Components should eliminate entire UI rewrites, <<< mouhahaha |
| 14:31.23 | lardman | it's whether it's worth re-writing the backend, or at least plumbing it for Qt Component use if it's only for one platform? |
| 14:32.22 | fiferboy | lardman: My app has a very simple QML frontend and a very simple C++ backend |
| 14:32.37 | fiferboy | The interaction between the two is simple enough to not be a burden |
| 14:32.43 | lardman | in the case of mBarcode it probably is as then other people could use the decoder easily, but just as a general question |
| 14:32.57 | lardman | s/is/is worth rewriting |
| 14:33.08 | lardman | but it will also be a pita |
| 14:33.09 | rm_work | lardman: ooo mBarcode |
| 14:33.17 | rm_work | I am still interested in making a useful UI for that |
| 14:33.26 | rm_work | as in like, uses a UPC backend |
| 14:33.38 | fiferboy | lardman: If you are only targetting Harmattan with an application then I guess it wouldn't pay to abstract the interface |
| 14:33.39 | rm_work | like I did for the old one |
| 14:33.44 | lardman | well backend plugins are easy to write |
| 14:33.51 | rm_work | yeah |
| 14:33.53 | lardman | and will remain the same |
| 14:34.15 | lardman | though will need to do some tweaking to get the ical/vcard stuff working perhaps |
| 14:34.59 | lardman | ah well, it will give me something to do this evening now that I've got all the deps downloaded |
| 14:35.25 | lardman | just need to remove/replace the maemo5-isations so I can check it runs, then move onto componentising it |
| 14:35.34 | fiferboy | lardman: Where would the fun be if we could just go on using the same familiar technologies all the time? :) |
| 14:35.58 | lardman | fiferboy: indeed, why stand on the shoulders of anyone when one can go back to first principles every time ;) |
| 14:36.27 | fiferboy | lardman: Are you trying to run a QWidget based application in Harmattan? |
| 14:37.25 | lardman | I was hoping to |
| 14:37.37 | lardman | at least to check that the camera subsystem is working, etc |
| 14:38.23 | fiferboy | lardman: I have had some success with that (in scratchbox), but as you say the Maemo5 stuff has to go |
| 14:38.55 | fiferboy | scratchbox was a bit weird about theming a few things, like combo boxes, so it is hard to tell if there is a complete QWidget theme |
| 14:39.33 | lardman | oh, I've never bothered running anything with a gui in sb, I guess I'll just try on-device as usual |
| 14:40.03 | fiferboy | That is probably a good idea |
| 14:40.19 | fiferboy | Sometimes it is hard to tell if there is something wrong with the GUI or something wrong with scratchbox :) |
| 14:40.35 | lardman | :) |
| 14:41.09 | lardman | heads off to do some coding |
| 14:41.12 | lardman | catch you all tomorrow |
| 14:43.25 | rm_work | LOOOOL |
| 14:43.33 | rm_work | in the QML WIdgets app |
| 14:43.46 | rm_work | in !!Slider |
| 14:43.50 | rm_work | there is a brightness slider :P |
| 14:44.29 | fiferboy | rm_work: Where is your shipment now? |
| 14:44.35 | rm_work | fiferboy: in my hand |
| 14:44.41 | rm_work | delivered 7:25am |
| 14:44.50 | rm_work | just unboxed about an hour ago |
| 14:44.54 | MohammadAG | sighs and looks at New order |
| 14:44.58 | rm_work | am at work... but have just been playing with it <_< |
| 14:45.20 | rm_work | thinking my first task (before porting ABL) may be to make a conversations export/import script |
| 14:45.29 | rm_work | since it appears that isn't done yet (not on wiki at least) |
| 14:45.47 | rm_work | because i already had experience with the conversation DB on n900 |
| 14:47.08 | fiferboy | rm_work: Might not be a bad idea to see if that is going to be in the final firmware |
| 14:47.19 | fiferboy | Not sure who you could ask, though |
| 14:48.01 | rm_work | yeah |
| 14:48.05 | rm_work | well for now i'd like to have them |
| 14:48.11 | rm_work | i'm not thinking a real app yet |
| 14:48.13 | rm_work | just a script |
| 14:48.15 | rm_work | for devs |
| 14:51.32 | GeneralAntilles | rm_work, no, out for delivery, though. |
| 14:51.55 | rm_work | GeneralAntilles: cool, the couriers are super fast once they get it tho |
| 14:52.10 | *** join/#harmattan Mek (~marijn@93.157.1.37) |
| 14:52.14 | alterego | rm_work: I was going to do that actually :P |
| 14:52.16 | GeneralAntilles | Went on the truck at 8:13 |
| 14:52.20 | GeneralAntilles | 10:52 now |
| 14:52.23 | rm_work | hrm |
| 14:52.24 | alterego | But you can, I've got a lot on my plate already :D |
| 14:52.32 | rm_work | mine went on truck 7:05, got to my door at 7:25 |
| 14:52.39 | rm_work | alterego: lol k |
| 14:52.42 | GeneralAntilles | You're at the start of the route, then. |
| 14:52.48 | rm_work | i guess |
| 14:52.51 | alterego | rm_work: wtf? Do you live next to Nokia warehouse? :P |
| 14:53.11 | lcuk | he lives in a DHL chipping crate |
| 14:53.12 | rm_work | lol alterego no, since it took 4 days to get from nokia to my city :P |
| 14:53.21 | alterego | Oh, hah |
| 14:53.21 | lcuk | shipping even :P |
| 14:53.41 | alterego | Mine got shipped at about 1pm last wednesday, arrived thursday at 11am |
| 14:53.44 | rm_work | got to the UK quick, so if I lived in lcuk's basement, I'd have had it friday :P |
| 14:54.01 | rm_work | shipped around 1pm last thursday, got here this monring |
| 14:54.02 | rm_work | *morning |
| 14:54.29 | alterego | Yeah, |
| 14:54.45 | Jaffa | Harmattan doesn't seem to like it when you `dpkg --force-all' things. My Firefox has gone to a red exclamation mark which says "this application is no longer usable; please reinstall" |
| 14:56.19 | rm_work | wow this keyboard is going to take some getting used to |
| 14:56.58 | lcuk | Jaffa, somewhat understandable |
| 14:57.27 | lcuk | if you are into updating thingamibobs, the meego bug 9205 could do with some tlc |
| 14:57.30 | MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9205 enh, High, 1.1.0, anas.nashif, NEW, Cannot Update from 1.0 to 1.1, from 1.1 to 1.2 |
| 15:01.02 | rm_work | how the heck do i get the sim holder out |
| 15:01.08 | rm_work | my fingernails are failing me |
| 15:01.10 | rm_work | is there a trick? |
| 15:01.40 | tomma | use knife |
| 15:05.25 | mgedmin | I managed with fingernails and a wooden toothpick |
| 15:05.32 | mgedmin | (the latter ended up a bit bent) |
| 15:05.39 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 15:06.22 | alterego | I used a knife the first time, normal blunt edged one as I was being paranoid. |
| 15:06.25 | djszapi | Can we get access from X-Fade to the Harmattan repository which is shared by the community I guess ? I would have 30 packages to upload and I think there are quite a few other people who would also like to share the packages in order to avoid the duplications. |
| 15:06.33 | alterego | It was exactly clear how it was supposed to come out :D |
| 15:06.49 | alterego | And there's no indicator of how the sim should go in, so I had to consult the quick start guide. |
| 15:07.00 | alterego | Oh actually, there is an indicator on the rubber cover .. |
| 15:07.35 | mgedmin | I guessed, and guessed right |
| 15:07.45 | mgedmin | I assume from its shape the SIM would refuse to go in in any other orientation |
| 15:08.00 | mgedmin | and there's that nice clicky sound when the latch catches |
| 15:08.04 | alterego | Not really, just doesn't go all the way in. |
| 15:08.28 | mgedmin | that's what I meant |
| 15:15.19 | *** join/#harmattan willer_ (~Willer@189.2.128.130) |
| 15:21.10 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 15:25.39 | *** join/#harmattan Scifig (~Scifig@c-24-4-32-47.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:30.16 | Venemo | N950's camera UI is blazing fast |
| 15:30.44 | Venemo | although it can't cope with bright daylight, the sky always looks burned |
| 15:31.58 | MohammadAG | Burning platform effects ftw |
| 15:32.02 | *** join/#harmattan spenap (~spena@cs27063224.pp.htv.fi) |
| 15:34.28 | *** join/#harmattan gri (~gri@agsb-5d851fab.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 15:35.52 | *** join/#harmattan _NIN (~NIN101@p5DD2987E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:36.41 | Venemo | MohammadAG ? |
| 15:39.04 | *** join/#harmattan rcg (~rc@g226028006.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:39.56 | tomma | anyone know what did i broke... dpkg says: status database area is locked by another process, application manager tells me "No software installations" |
| 15:40.31 | Venemo | does a reboot help it? |
| 15:40.35 | tomma | nope |
| 15:41.51 | tomma | it could be some lock file was left after i tried to refresh updates with application manager... |
| 15:42.19 | *** join/#harmattan achipa (~attila@a91-155-185-5.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:42.19 | *** join/#harmattan achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 15:42.42 | MohammadAG | tomma, rm /var/lib/dpkg/lock may help |
| 15:44.44 | tomma | didn't help |
| 15:44.51 | tomma | there are locks in so many places... |
| 15:46.28 | tomma | oh wait... dpkg worked... but still |
| 15:46.42 | tomma | "no software installations" in application manager |
| 15:51.59 | alterego | It's annoying I can't marl my ddp as complete from the device. |
| 15:52.14 | Venemo | alterego, 'marl' ? |
| 15:52.21 | Venemo | alterego, aah, mark |
| 15:52.36 | Venemo | yeah, it can't do HTTPS so you can't login to meego.com |
| 15:55.27 | Scifig | wait, harmattan browser can't do HTTPS? |
| 15:56.06 | flux | I guess he means the app manager? |
| 15:56.18 | Scifig | oh ok |
| 15:56.30 | flux | venemo, tried using .netrc? not sure where to place it though.. |
| 15:56.47 | flux | or is it a certificate issue? |
| 15:56.54 | GAN900 | It's here. |
| 15:57.25 | Scifig | GAN900 - Congrats. My is still on the way from LA |
| 15:57.29 | Venemo | flux, go to https://meego.com and see |
| 15:57.34 | Venemo | flux, it is some handshake issue |
| 16:02.21 | fiferboy | Mine got delivered to my house, but alas I am at work |
| 16:02.36 | Venemo | GAN900, congrats |
| 16:04.02 | *** join/#harmattan antman8969 (d0365a92@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.54.90.146) |
| 16:16.24 | Venemo | achipa, I think I found a bug |
| 16:16.49 | Venemo | achipa, could you tell me that it's not a bug, just my lack of knowledge? |
| 16:17.40 | GAN900 | Man, the browser is so shit. |
| 16:18.33 | Venemo | achipa, I have hooked my own eventhandler to the onOrientationChangeStarted of my PageStackWindow, and it doesn't get triggered when the app is rotated while in the "Open applications" homescreen |
| 16:18.36 | Venemo | GAN900, what about it? |
| 16:19.37 | GeneralAntilles | Venemo, insta-crash on half the pages I've tried to load so far. |
| 16:19.50 | Venemo | GeneralAntilles, ah... |
| 16:19.56 | Venemo | yeah, it's kinda beta |
| 16:19.59 | Venemo | plus it can't do HTTPS |
| 16:20.04 | GeneralAntilles | The lack of landscape in most stuff is incredibly irritating when the device has a keyboard. |
| 16:20.26 | Venemo | GeneralAntilles, I found it delighting that at least someone agrees with me :) |
| 16:25.14 | mgedmin | can the n950 media player play internet radio? |
| 16:27.50 | Venemo | mgedmin, I think not |
| 16:28.13 | Venemo | GeneralAntilles, btw, with some trickery you can trigger landscape mode in the home screens |
| 16:28.28 | GeneralAntilles | Can't figure out how to get the Qt SDK to use the device as its target |
| 16:28.33 | GeneralAntilles | Even though I set up the device with the SDK. |
| 16:28.53 | *** join/#harmattan javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 16:28.55 | Venemo | GeneralAntilles, go to Projects, then Harmattan, then in the Run step, select your device |
| 16:29.15 | Venemo | GeneralAntilles, also, go to Tools/Options/Maemo and mark your device the default for Harmattan projects |
| 16:29.17 | GeneralAntilles | Not in the list. |
| 16:29.22 | GeneralAntilles | Already did that. |
| 16:29.29 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles, hah, congrats |
| 16:29.36 | Venemo | GeneralAntilles, Projects/Harmattan/Run/Deploy to device |
| 16:29.58 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles, so, impressed by tearfree scrolling? :) |
| 16:30.16 | javispedro | or has nokia managed to kill your optimism (again)? ;) |
| 16:30.26 | GeneralAntilles | The scrolling is nice. |
| 16:30.33 | GeneralAntilles | But damn this w22 firmware is shit. |
| 16:30.39 | GeneralAntilles | Untranslated strings all over the place. |
| 16:31.18 | javispedro | indeed |
| 16:31.37 | javispedro | the latest "feature" I'm experience is that after a few hours of uptime thumbnails tend to disappear in task switcher |
| 16:31.47 | javispedro | *ing |
| 16:31.54 | Venemo | GeneralAntilles, http://i56.tinypic.com/4grryg.png |
| 16:32.52 | GeneralAntilles | Venemo, ah, genius. Thanks. |
| 16:32.57 | GeneralAntilles | I recall doing that for Fremantle now. |
| 16:33.20 | *** join/#harmattan cpscotti (~cpscotti@212.36.161.100) |
| 16:33.33 | Venemo | GeneralAntilles, that is what I told :P |
| 16:33.47 | Venemo | GeneralAntilles, you're welcome :) |
| 16:33.50 | GeneralAntilles | Moments in Competence this morning. |
| 16:48.24 | gri | Venemo: Did you manage to get the qml designer in windows working with qt-components? (I don't think it's possible) |
| 16:51.46 | Venemo | gri, I don't use the designer |
| 16:53.01 | Venemo | gri, you should be fine with the source editor though |
| 16:53.52 | Scifig | GeneralAntilles, Are you on AT&T? |
| 16:56.00 | GeneralAntilles | Yes |
| 16:57.15 | GAN900 | Definitely going to be carrying two devices for the the time being |
| 16:57.52 | Venemo | GAN900, we should get Nokia to release a new image for us... |
| 16:58.59 | Scifig | GeneralAntilles, Is AT&T 3G working fine with N950? |
| 16:59.17 | *** join/#harmattan piggz (~piggz@host-78-145-116-17.as13285.net) |
| 16:59.20 | GeneralAntilles | Scifig, I assume so, haven't left the house yet, though. |
| 16:59.31 | javispedro | waits for GeneralAntilles' "sucks or not" n950 review |
| 16:59.40 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: press ctrl-shift-L for better translations ;-) |
| 16:59.44 | Venemo | the hinge seems to be slightly weaker than the N97's or E7's |
| 16:59.49 | Scifig | is waiting for the DHL guy to knock on the door |
| 17:00.12 | GeneralAntilles | I hate the keyboard right now. |
| 17:00.19 | javispedro | concurs |
| 17:00.20 | GeneralAntilles | But I hated the N900 keyboard at first, too, so hope it gets better. |
| 17:00.43 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, OH NOO... Hungarian translations are crappier than I expected... |
| 17:00.57 | Venemo | GeneralAntilles, you'll get used to it in a week |
| 17:01.05 | javispedro | spaniards are average, there's missing text all over the place but nothing awful. |
| 17:01.15 | Venemo | GeneralAntilles, after you apply the trick to get the homescreens into landscape, it's not that bad |
| 17:01.34 | DocScrutinizer | shift+ctrl+B also makes for a cute effect ;-) |
| 17:02.13 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, what? what's this green stuff? |
| 17:02.55 | DocScrutinizer | shift+ctrl+S might actually be useful |
| 17:03.12 | DocScrutinizer | shift+ctrl+M maybe too |
| 17:03.43 | Venemo | hmm |
| 17:04.38 | piggz | what the latest n950 news today?? |
| 17:04.50 | DocScrutinizer | in settings s+c+M makes a nice gtaphical effect ;-D |
| 17:05.36 | GeneralAntilles | I guess DNLA music doesn't work? |
| 17:06.29 | Venemo | GeneralAntilles, it should |
| 17:06.37 | Venemo | GeneralAntilles, but I haven't had the chance to test |
| 17:07.19 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, seems to be only working with MTF apps |
| 17:08.09 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 17:08.59 | DocScrutinizer | alas ALL the kbd shortcuts seem to work only with MTF apps. Maybe except Fn+BS and Ctrl+Q |
| 17:09.20 | Venemo | after a few days of usage, I must say that the hinge is definitely not the strong point of the device |
| 17:09.30 | DocScrutinizer | HAH |
| 17:10.06 | Venemo | it still works great, but it wobbles a little bit when the device is closed |
| 17:10.26 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi_ (~lpapp@80-186-134-164.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 17:10.55 | Venemo | this device was definitely not designed for opening the keyboard as many times as I open it... but I will be content if it remains in its current state for a few months :) |
| 17:11.03 | DocScrutinizer | this hinge definitley won't survivie any proper droptest - the less when opened |
| 17:11.13 | Venemo | haha |
| 17:11.16 | djszapi_ | Hi! Does anybody have idea about an "rpc" timeout on c-obs (Harmattan target). It sometimes happens with innocent packages, and at some point it starts working without any change in the repository. |
| 17:11.21 | DocScrutinizer | what HAHA |
| 17:11.25 | djszapi_ | For instance: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=kdelibs&project=home%3Adjszapi&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan |
| 17:11.30 | gri | The keyboard is also not designed for using in the dark since it lacks backlight :( |
| 17:11.35 | DocScrutinizer | droptests are a normal part of PV evaluation |
| 17:11.42 | Venemo | mhm |
| 17:11.53 | DocScrutinizer | and even part of device property specs |
| 17:11.56 | Venemo | so maybe there is some truth in the rumor that the hinge is why they're not selling it? |
| 17:12.13 | GeneralAntilles | gri, has a backlight here. |
| 17:12.29 | DocScrutinizer | gri: WUT? |
| 17:12.33 | *** join/#harmattan vandenoever (~oever@kde/vandenoever) |
| 17:12.40 | gri | hmm, maybe mine is not working |
| 17:12.43 | Venemo | when half opened and you look at it from the back side, you can actually see that only a few centimetres of plastic is holding it together. |
| 17:13.08 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: see my photos of hinge on OVI |
| 17:13.30 | DocScrutinizer | that's why I took them |
| 17:14.04 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, I see now... I'm referring to this one: http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10151 |
| 17:15.37 | *** join/#harmattan xerxes2 (~xerxes2@1-2-6-1a.mdp.mlm.bostream.se) |
| 17:18.17 | DocScrutinizer | gri: mce which is controlling indicator-, kbd-backlight- et-al-LEDs, is definitely not thoroughly tested and optimized for N950 |
| 17:19.11 | DocScrutinizer | OCH! the hinge bites back! |
| 17:19.26 | DocScrutinizer | tekaed my finger :-P |
| 17:19.30 | piggz | what do do tonight.....everytrail app for maemo/meego-ce, or get spaceinvaders into obs for Jaffa ... hopefully both, time allowing |
| 17:19.33 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, :D |
| 17:19.33 | DocScrutinizer | tweaked* |
| 17:23.42 | DocScrutinizer | spaceinvaders \o/ |
| 17:24.33 | DocScrutinizer | Is there already a midnight commander on any repo? |
| 17:26.53 | DocScrutinizer | tail -n 2 /etc/mce/mce-radio-states.ini |
| 17:27.33 | gri | DocScrutinizer: the indicator light only works when charging for me - do you also have a light on email / sms / call notification? |
| 17:28.00 | DocScrutinizer | I got no email/sms/call |
| 17:28.25 | DocScrutinizer | but device looks rather dead when sitting there with screen off, yeah |
| 17:28.39 | DocScrutinizer | unless charging |
| 17:28.47 | Venemo | gri, nope |
| 17:30.52 | DocScrutinizer | haha, mce.ini has >>PowerKeyShortAction=tklock-lock<< still for me powerbutton also unlocks |
| 17:31.07 | piggz | DocScrutinizer: have you not got spaceinvaders already on your n950?? according to my logs, approx half of n950 users should have it.. |
| 17:31.11 | piggz | cat access_log | grep pgz-spaceinvaders_0_3_8 | grep GET | wc -l |
| 17:31.13 | piggz | 128 |
| 17:31.56 | Venemo | piggz, there are no 128 N950 users yet |
| 17:32.13 | Venemo | at least not even 100 people got their devices yet from the meego.com program |
| 17:32.21 | Stskeeps | plus the ones outside it.. |
| 17:32.22 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 17:32.45 | gri | minus one since I haven't downloaded it |
| 17:33.19 | piggz | ah well, some obviously have downloaded it and cant use it....as i only have 30 followers on twitter that would know about it directly, most downloads must have came from retweets |
| 17:38.44 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi_ (~lpapp@80-186-134-164.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 17:44.03 | *** join/#harmattan harbaum (~quassel@krlh-4d021fa5.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 17:44.39 | DocScrutinizer | gri: Venemo: well, in mce.ini there's a PatternCommunicationAndBatteryFull and a CombinationCommunicationAndBatteryFull and also a PatternCommunication, but no PatternEmail or PatternSMS or PatternIM |
| 17:45.38 | DocScrutinizer | you'd have to use dbus-monitor to check which pattern gets requested on missed-call, SMS, mail etc, and define the proper Pattern in mce.ini |
| 17:45.48 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, the LED is so faint anyway that I couldn't care less |
| 17:45.56 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 17:46.19 | Venemo | and non-colorful |
| 17:46.35 | DocScrutinizer | I don't plan to use this device for my everyday phone anyway, so what... |
| 17:46.40 | gri | Yeah, mce source looks like it's only white |
| 17:47.02 | DocScrutinizer | # Patterns used for the RM-680/RM-690 hardware; |
| 17:47.04 | DocScrutinizer | # this hardware has a single-colour LED connected to a Lysti controller |
| 17:49.20 | DocScrutinizer | according to mce.ini RM-680/690 are devices with several LEDs ergo with KBD, while RM-696 has a controller for a single LED |
| 17:50.17 | Venemo | wut is RM-690? |
| 17:50.45 | Venemo | just another cancelled prototype thing? |
| 17:54.54 | Venemo | also, why are the new devices not RX-* |
| 17:57.03 | achipa | mgedmin: internet radio is a go, but not via the music app. Just open a .m3u from the web or whereever and it will work fine |
| 17:57.52 | achipa | Venemo: a bug is a bug :) feel free to file |
| 17:58.00 | rm_work | is there a pandora app compiled for harmattan yet? :P |
| 18:08.02 | *** join/#harmattan Scifig_ (~Scifig@c-24-4-32-47.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:11.06 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: I'd offer a compromise: you run dbus-monitor >missed-call_dbusmsgs.log, and I check the mci.ini so it will work |
| 18:11.36 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, do I need to run that as root? |
| 18:11.48 | GeneralAntilles | How can it not have UPnP? |
| 18:11.51 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: I guess the LED *could* get brighter than it's now |
| 18:11.52 | GeneralAntilles | That's so obnoxious. |
| 18:12.07 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: definitely not |
| 18:12.11 | Venemo | ok |
| 18:13.11 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: please run a dbus-montor --system >sys.log ; and a dbus-monotor --session >sess.log |
| 18:13.20 | DocScrutinizer | both from user |
| 18:13.43 | Venemo | ok, do I need to do anything in particular while the dbus-monitor is running? |
| 18:13.50 | DocScrutinizer | post both files for me, and I'll see what can be done |
| 18:13.53 | Venemo | eg. make myself a missed call? |
| 18:14.15 | DocScrutinizer | yes, that would help A LOT |
| 18:14.17 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 18:14.54 | DocScrutinizer | also send a SMS, and a mail |
| 18:14.58 | Venemo | ok. |
| 18:15.12 | DocScrutinizer | wait a minute... |
| 18:15.46 | Venemo | can't send myself an SMS (no credit on my other SIM), but I can send e-mail |
| 18:19.19 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: do dbus-monitor --system|grep -B 1 -A 3 req_led_pattern_activate |
| 18:19.29 | Venemo | mail checking is due in 2 hours, so I can't make you a missed mail right now |
| 18:20.28 | DocScrutinizer | or just |
| 18:20.32 | Venemo | or will the desired effect happen if I just use the refresh button? |
| 18:20.39 | DocScrutinizer | dbus-monitor --system|grep -B 1 -A 3 req_led_pattern |
| 18:21.01 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: I have no clue |
| 18:21.10 | DocScrutinizer | just run |
| 18:21.20 | DocScrutinizer | dbus-monitor --system|grep -B 1 -A 3 req_led_pattern >dbus.log |
| 18:21.25 | DocScrutinizer | for a day or two |
| 18:21.37 | GeneralAntilles | No IRC, no FBReader |
| 18:21.40 | GeneralAntilles | Pointlessness. |
| 18:21.47 | GeneralAntilles | I think I'll switch the SIM back tomorrow. |
| 18:21.49 | Venemo | YET |
| 18:23.44 | DocScrutinizer | tbh I'm more than puzzled about ANY LED for RM-696 |
| 18:23.51 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, http://sources.venemo.net/harmattan/for_doc/ |
| 18:23.58 | rm_work | GeneralAntilles: lol |
| 18:23.59 | DocScrutinizer | AIUI N9 has *no* indicator LED |
| 18:24.14 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, the sess-* is the dbus-monitor --session the sys-* is the dbus-monitor --system |
| 18:24.30 | rm_work | GeneralAntilles: compile xchat for the time-being, then write a good irc client for it :P |
| 18:24.51 | rm_work | GeneralAntilles: someone should be able to make xchat from fremantle work |
| 18:24.57 | Venemo | quassel is on its way |
| 18:25.09 | Venemo | xchat... well, that needs GTK too... which is... umm... :( |
| 18:25.50 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, is it of any use? |
| 18:25.55 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: YAHOO, *no* dbus-msg to mce about any LED pattern |
| 18:26.14 | kimju | DocScrutinizer, the n9 could propably use its oled display for indicators without lighting full backlight as would be required on n950? |
| 18:26.20 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, humm |
| 18:26.31 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, maybe I didn't shut down the display for one of them? hm. |
| 18:26.31 | DocScrutinizer | so the missed-calls handler doesn't even bother to _send_ any signal |
| 18:27.01 | DocScrutinizer | kimju: exactly |
| 18:27.06 | Venemo | rm_work, as for xchat: 'dpkg -l | grep gtk' is empty |
| 18:28.00 | rm_work | lol well |
| 18:28.11 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, signal sender=:1.46 -> dest=(null destination) serial=184 path=/Call; interface=Com.Nokia.Telephony.CallUi; member=CallEnded |
| 18:28.22 | DocScrutinizer | kimju: I don't see how mce is controlling this via a NJoy aka LP5521 controller |
| 18:28.25 | rm_work | yeah would need to rebuild the UI on QT |
| 18:28.36 | rm_work | but i'm sure there's a QT IRC that would work if compiled |
| 18:29.07 | *** join/#harmattan gri (~gri@agsb-5d851fab.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 18:29.58 | Venemo | there is... |
| 18:30.00 | Venemo | maybe |
| 18:30.08 | fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: I'll send you my FBReader compile once I package up the missing libraries |
| 18:30.10 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: (xchat, gtk) that's been the point where I cleared the xchat topic from my stack yesterday |
| 18:30.15 | fiferboy | *Warning* very untested |
| 18:30.58 | kimju | has anyone managed to get cursor key events out of the vkb? |
| 18:31.22 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: (member=CallEnded) errr, yes? So what ? |
| 18:32.33 | Venemo | so it does send a signal, only not to MCE |
| 18:34.20 | Venemo | so... one can make a daemon that listens to this signal, checks whether the screen is off, and then just sends the necessary stuff to MCE |
| 18:34.55 | Venemo | hm... if only I could run dbus-explorer on the device... :P |
| 18:36.19 | harbaum | what's the "grue" plugin doing? |
| 18:36.53 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: you're right, fremantle as well doesn't see a com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_led_pattern_activate string:"PatternCallMissed" or similar signal when I test it there |
| 18:37.57 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, are you aware of any app that has the functionality of dbus-explorer and can be compiled for N950? |
| 18:41.38 | DocScrutinizer | what is dbus-explorer? |
| 18:41.55 | DocScrutinizer | you think of mdbus2? |
| 18:42.45 | harbaum | I think someone here posted a trick to detect Meego in qmake/.pro file. What was that trick? |
| 18:43.41 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, dbus-explorer is a graphical app which lets you "browse" all the D-Bus serives and their interfaces in a tree view, and it even lets you call the specific methods |
| 18:44.16 | achipa | DocScrutinizer: AFAIK N9 has an indicator led, even a bit bigger/more prominent than the N950 |
| 18:46.11 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: check mdbus2 on m5 |
| 18:46.31 | DocScrutinizer | maybe you could compile it for m6 |
| 18:46.58 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: iirc mdbus1 even was in python |
| 18:47.27 | DocScrutinizer | shit, my N900 starts acting funny |
| 18:47.52 | Stskeeps | it's jealous |
| 18:47.53 | Venemo | funny in what way? |
| 18:48.19 | DocScrutinizer | seems the stresstest with 2h concurrent mappero and marble was too much for it |
| 18:48.51 | Venemo | are you surprised in any way? |
| 18:49.25 | DocScrutinizer | it blanks screen (black screen with full backlight) and only freshly rendered elements show up for some time, then vanish again |
| 18:50.04 | DocScrutinizer | nothing in syslog ;-P |
| 18:53.49 | Venemo | hmm |
| 18:53.50 | Venemo | reboot? |
| 18:54.32 | *** join/#harmattan lbt (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 18:55.12 | harbaum | thp: ping! |
| 19:00.22 | harbaum | i am surprised: my qml app doesn't rotate ... |
| 19:01.02 | harbaum | do i need some special magic to have my app rotate? |
| 19:01.17 | Venemo | harbaum, what kind of QML app is it? |
| 19:01.35 | harbaum | ?? Just a qml app |
| 19:01.53 | Venemo | do you use the MeeGo Qt Components with it? |
| 19:01.57 | harbaum | nope |
| 19:02.09 | harbaum | just my own ones |
| 19:02.12 | Venemo | in that case, you may need to take care of it yourself, and I dunno how |
| 19:02.43 | harbaum | my app can properly handle width < height if you mean that |
| 19:02.58 | harbaum | it just doesn't rotate at all |
| 19:03.25 | fiferboy | harbaum: You might have to listen for a window size change signal |
| 19:03.50 | fiferboy | There is an orientation start/stop/about to start signal with the Qt Components |
| 19:03.58 | Venemo | haha |
| 19:04.09 | Venemo | and about to start doesn't work when the app rotates in the task switcher |
| 19:04.15 | Venemo | haven't tested the others |
| 19:04.24 | fiferboy | Venemo: Good to know (haven't tested on device yet) |
| 19:04.56 | Venemo | fiferboy, either it's a bug in the components or I use it in a bad manner... but it rotates when the app is in the front. |
| 19:05.23 | harbaum | i can't believe it, i have rewritten my gui in qml and that is also not fully supported and i need to start from scratch once more using qt components? |
| 19:06.35 | fiferboy | Venemo: I _think_ I heard that task switcher thumbnails always use a portrait layout |
| 19:06.55 | fiferboy | Venemo: Jaffa could probably confirm |
| 19:07.11 | Venemo | fiferboy, nope... at least if you enable the landscape mode for the homescreens |
| 19:07.25 | Stskeeps | harbaum: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Implementing_orientation_change_animation_with_QML |
| 19:07.42 | Stskeeps | or something |
| 19:08.07 | fiferboy | Venemo: Ah, maybe it is the homescreen orientation that was previously locking it |
| 19:08.27 | Venemo | fiferboy, that is is |
| 19:13.08 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: about to boot, first took a video for you :-) |
| 19:13.52 | DocScrutinizer | share to OVI is slow like geotectonics another time, well it's enormous 50MB |
| 19:14.45 | harbaum | Stskeeps: Thanks, will dig into that |
| 19:18.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | Venemo: boot seems did help |
| 19:19.05 | spenap | hey, anyone using QML knows how to access the preferred system values for font sizes, colors, etc? There are some javascript files which contain that, but I don't know if I should import them directly (and how to do it) |
| 19:19.35 | spenap | in /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/nokia/extras/UIConstants.js, for example |
| 19:22.08 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer51 :) |
| 19:26.33 | gri | spenap: I was looking for the same thing: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-components/qt-components/blobs/master/src/meego/plugin.cpp#line147 |
| 19:27.07 | gri | but I always get "Can't find variable: UiConstants" when trying to use it :( |
| 19:27.33 | spenap | gri, then I don't see the problem with copying the interesting parts from their JS to mine :) |
| 19:28.15 | gri | why copy? |
| 19:28.33 | spenap | mmm |
| 19:28.57 | spenap | is there a way to import a javascript library with some non-absolute path? |
| 19:29.29 | spenap | or is «import "/usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/nokia/extras/UIConstants.js" as NokiaUI» the right way? |
| 19:29.56 | Venemo | if you don't mind being platform specific |
| 19:30.17 | spenap | that's the thing: I don't like that, but also copying the values doesn't look too portable |
| 19:30.27 | ieatlint | Stskeeps: it's interesting that link you posted about detecting orientation change in QML.. |
| 19:30.52 | ieatlint | those instructions are severely flawed |
| 19:30.56 | Stskeeps | oh god, i didn't paste porn by accident did i |
| 19:31.09 | ieatlint | as the documentation for qt-mobility states "The orientation sensor reports the orientation of the device. As it operates below the UI level it does not report on or even know how the UI is rotated. Most importantly this means that this sensor cannot be used to detect if a device is in portrait or landscape mode." |
| 19:31.20 | gri | spenap: If the cpp plugin would work, there wouldn't be a need to use the constants. Label { font: UiConstants.TitleFont } should do the trick - but it doesn't :( |
| 19:31.42 | *** join/#harmattan smoku (~spectrum@xkh0g2.infr.xiaoka.com) |
| 19:31.45 | ieatlint | it also has a slower polling rate, and will cause delays in rotation |
| 19:33.01 | ieatlint | the classic way to detect is to watch for resize events, and then test if w > h, which will tell you if it's landscape/portrait and also always be in line with what the phone decides the orientation is |
| 19:33.17 | spenap | gri, yeah, so javascript then |
| 19:33.49 | gri | spenap: The javascript has no information about fonts etc. qt-components seems to use both |
| 19:34.20 | spenap | gri, check /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/nokia/extras/UIConstants.js |
| 19:34.20 | gri | ups |
| 19:34.21 | gri | wrong |
| 19:36.14 | gri | So I don't understand why they have both constants "files" |
| 19:37.25 | spenap | I guess that they don't have an unified approach yet |
| 19:41.16 | gri | looks like both are barely used inside qt-components itself |
| 19:41.43 | spenap | I'm asking in qt-qml atm |
| 19:42.59 | spenap | gri, they tell me that there's no official approach at the moment.. |
| 19:43.29 | gri | nice, so your approach with copying is the safest one :) |
| 19:45.36 | spenap | well, I'll be importing those files as UIConstants or the like, not copying them |
| 19:50.37 | gri | spenap: Where is the path from? in scratchbox it's com/meego/UIConstants.js |
| 19:51.12 | spenap | oh |
| 19:51.21 | spenap | ¬¬ that's way better |
| 19:51.30 | spenap | I was wondering how to do that |
| 19:51.35 | spenap | where did you learn it? |
| 19:52.29 | gri | huh? I just shortened the path, in scratchbox I don't have a /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/nokia/extras/UIConstants.js |
| 19:54.34 | spenap | oh, well. I thought you could refer to a JS library in some short way, and that it would be automatically resolved. I don't know why you don't have it |
| 19:57.45 | gri | instead I have a /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/nokia/meego/UIConstants.js and a /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/meego/UIConstants.js |
| 19:58.17 | gri | (the directories' contents are equal) |
| 19:59.45 | spenap | gri, if you check with «dpkg -L qt-components», doesn't it contain this /extras directory? mine does |
| 20:00.43 | *** join/#harmattan javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 20:01.43 | gri | spenap: I have the extras directory but it only contains a "constants.js" which is something different to "UIConstants.js" and the directory also contains only a few components like Tumbler, ListButton, CountBubble .. |
| 20:03.11 | spenap | ah, then maybe I just messed it up. Both "constants" files are useful. While the UIConstants one has font sizes, margins and the like, this Constants inside extras has list sizes and colors for the main and secondary text |
| 20:11.40 | Jaffa | fiferboy: Venemo: pong |
| 20:19.37 | fiferboy | Jaffa: Do you still have the problem with task manager thumbnails being portrait-only? |
| 20:19.51 | fiferboy | Jaffa: Or did the landscape homescreen trick fix that |
| 20:23.01 | Venemo | Jaffa, hm? |
| 20:24.33 | fiferboy | Venemo: In our talk of task switcher earlier I invoked the aid of Jaffa |
| 20:24.50 | Venemo | fiferboy, aah. |
| 20:28.07 | Jaffa | fiferboy: I haven't done the landscape homescreen trick just so I could test it |
| 20:28.42 | Jaffa | fiferboy: Since I'm fullscreen and decided to drop the status bar, I can access "platformWindow" whether I'm Qt Components or not. So I'm no longer going to use Qt Components for Attitude |
| 20:28.45 | *** join/#harmattan GeneralAntilles (~ryan@Maemo/community/contributor/GeneralAntilles) |
| 20:30.25 | fiferboy | Jaffa: Ah, and the thumbnail orientation isn't an issue for raw QML programs? |
| 20:30.33 | Jaffa | fiferboy: Correct |
| 20:31.14 | javispedro | for raw X11 programs the system assumes landscape |
| 20:34.11 | *** join/#harmattan cpscotti (~cpscotti@46.208.240.229) |
| 20:38.16 | DocScrutinizer | piggz: twitter? what's that? |
| 20:38.31 | Venemo | Jaffa, hmm. what will Attitude do? |
| 20:40.18 | Jaffa | Venemo: In terms of feature or behaviour on Harmattan? |
| 20:40.32 | Jaffa | Venemo: It's an orientation and (one day) compass app. Like an artifical horizon on a plane |
| 20:40.39 | Venemo | Jaffa, I just don't know what it is. |
| 20:40.42 | Venemo | Jaffa, aaah :) |
| 20:40.44 | *** join/#harmattan achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 20:40.46 | Venemo | Jaffa, sounds interesting :) |
| 20:40.52 | javispedro | not used Attitude?? |
| 20:41.04 | DocScrutinizer | you are all aware that NO app should try to detect physical orientation of device to determine landscape vs portrait? |
| 20:41.05 | javispedro | but it also has the honor of being one of the first N900 apps! ;) |
| 20:41.33 | Jaffa | javispedro: And one of the first N950 apps :-) |
| 20:41.40 | javispedro | note "also" ;) |
| 20:41.50 | Jaffa | :) |
| 20:41.58 | DocScrutinizer | there MUST be a system call provided by whatever middleware framework for that, where yu could plug in orientation locks etc |
| 20:42.44 | Venemo | Jaffa, memory-game is also one of the first N950 apps :) wanna try? :P |
| 20:42.48 | Jaffa | Venemo: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24984&postcount=12 |
| 20:42.49 | SpeedEvil | For some things, that's flat out wrog. Not many though. |
| 20:42.52 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: well, not sure about that |
| 20:42.53 | SpeedEvil | For example, AR |
| 20:43.07 | Jaffa | Venemo: Sure. Is it in OBS so I can track it with apt? :-) |
| 20:43.17 | Venemo | Jaffa, yours is the first, mine is only "one of the first" ;) |
| 20:43.38 | javispedro | for a start, I'm not sure such an API existed -- the fact that apps on task view get switched to portrait is a surprise to me |
| 20:43.39 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: that's been at me? AR is not dealing with portrait/landscape |
| 20:43.51 | Venemo | Jaffa, unfortunately I haven't a clue about OBS. some guy packaged an earlier version I think... maybe a few days ago, but that is obsolete now. I can point you to a .deb though. |
| 20:43.59 | Jaffa | Venemo: That'll do |
| 20:44.13 | Venemo | Jaffa, http://sources.venemo.net/harmattan/ |
| 20:44.14 | Jaffa | Venemo: http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS and http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24047&postcount=15 might help |
| 20:44.20 | Venemo | thx :) |
| 20:44.38 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: quite obviously a spirit level wouldn't want to bother about the virtual partrait/landscape orientation of the middleware either |
| 20:46.20 | deimos | why I can't set Button "width" and other qml values ? What I am doing wrong ? |
| 20:46.29 | DocScrutinizer | ther has to be one central data source that provides orientation of user in relation to device, as that's the only thing that matters regarding L/P |
| 20:46.56 | Venemo | Jaffa, I'll read it as soon as I'm finished with the crapwork I'm doing now (non-N950-related paid work) |
| 20:47.20 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: you'd be surprised about how rotation works in harmattan |
| 20:47.28 | DocScrutinizer | I mean the user could even do a handstand |
| 20:48.19 | DocScrutinizer | it's absolute nonsense to unconditionally orient the screen so it points down == center of earth |
| 20:50.21 | DocScrutinizer | if a sufficient number of apps starts do do the wrong thing here (which is direct readout of accelerometer), then we end with a botch that overrides accelerometer data for a orientation lock, and with broken spirit-level apps etc |
| 20:50.35 | DocScrutinizer | s/do do/to do/ |
| 20:51.44 | javispedro | that's already how it is now.. |
| 20:53.12 | DocScrutinizer | screen orientation is NOT accelerometer orientation. Don't use any direct accelerometer data for screen orientation. Define one data source that clearly states it is NOT always in sync with accelerometer and only to be used for L/P |
| 20:55.26 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: well, bad enough. Maybe it's not too late to fix it |
| 20:55.50 | Venemo | okay! |
| 20:56.02 | Venemo | Seems that "Memory Game" does not fit into the app grid (too long) |
| 20:56.12 | Venemo | so, I'm looking for a name for the app that fits there |
| 20:56.16 | Venemo | any ideas? |
| 20:56.17 | DocScrutinizer | it's as (sorry) idiotic a system architecture as if each app would manage its own screen brightness |
| 20:57.11 | DocScrutinizer | virtual orientation is a system domain task, definitely not an app domain task |
| 20:57.43 | SpeedEvil | Bad for power too, as all of the apps won't poll at the same time the accellerometer |
| 20:57.55 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 20:58.07 | DocScrutinizer | complete nightmare, in several regards |
| 20:58.14 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, just FYI, that is why there is the sensor framework. so sensorfw calculates the orientation with whatever voodoo magic and it tells the apps about it if the apps ask. |
| 20:58.38 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: yes, that's how it should be |
| 20:59.32 | DocScrutinizer | apps MUST NOT use any other means to decide whether L or P. |
| 20:59.35 | DocScrutinizer | ~2119 |
| 20:59.35 | infobot | The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. |
| 20:59.55 | GAN900 | They still have only one line on application names |
| 21:00.02 | GAN900 | gone be a lot of ellipses. |
| 21:00.33 | DocScrutinizer | in appstarter? yeah nice ;-P |
| 21:00.48 | javispedro | sensorfw only polls the accelerometer |
| 21:00.58 | DocScrutinizer | ""please use WidgetGa..." |
| 21:01.07 | javispedro | it is each and every app which calculates what its orientation should be depending on whatever logic they want |
| 21:01.29 | javispedro | which is why I was saying that uniform rotation lock in Harmattan is impossible, and I mentioned this weeks ago |
| 21:02.17 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: obviously sensorFW has to provide a physical and a logical orientations, and the two are largely unrelated |
| 21:02.22 | javispedro | it also the way it will work on my SDL -- you listen to the accelerometer and notify system which orientation "your logic" decides -- |
| 21:02.28 | javispedro | and also the way it works on WebOS. |
| 21:02.37 | javispedro | (which Harmattan is clearly based upon ;)) j/k |
| 21:02.48 | javispedro | (but only this last sentence is the joke) |
| 21:03.22 | DocScrutinizer | the whole situation is a bad joke |
| 21:04.17 | Jaffa | Venemo: Memento |
| 21:04.27 | Jaffa | goes +1 on his naming things doodah |
| 21:04.29 | DocScrutinizer | I mean I'm not the ueber system architect so nobody else ever before could have noticed that - so why is there no clean definitive advisory on that? |
| 21:04.36 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: I want orientation based on face recognition |
| 21:05.12 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: fair enough - and for sure your orientation wouldn't care at all about accelerometers then |
| 21:05.22 | Venemo | Jaffa, :) |
| 21:05.28 | DocScrutinizer | and also work in spaceshuttle |
| 21:05.38 | Venemo | current ideas are MemGame and YourMemory |
| 21:05.43 | Venemo | Memento sounds nice :) |
| 21:05.46 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: actually that's a brilliant idea |
| 21:06.39 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Also solves the issue when I'm holding the device in bed, lying down and it decides to be portrait (when I want it to be landscape) |
| 21:06.40 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: the cam already *has* face detection |
| 21:06.59 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: I bet the face orientation comes for free with that |
| 21:07.14 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: exactly |
| 21:07.25 | javispedro | Jaffa: knowing the rules behind MTF orientation detection serves me well there ;) (on inverted landscape it will be on portrait if last orientation was portrait) |
| 21:08.38 | rm_work | GAN900: i'm legitimately excited about writing a backlight widget (if someone doesn't beat me to it) |
| 21:09.08 | rm_work | with the source opened for the MCE lib, and the neat way the statusbar applets are oriented, it should be a breeze to just shove it under the volume one :P |
| 21:09.24 | rm_work | and significantly less config necessary |
| 21:09.35 | rm_work | who was it that was also doing this? |
| 21:09.39 | rm_work | MohammadAG? |
| 21:09.43 | rm_work | I forget |
| 21:09.54 | DocScrutinizer | may I dare and boldly introduce a int user-screen-orientation, range 0..360 unit degrees |
| 21:09.58 | rm_work | i guess if you beat me to it, so be it, i'll just work on something else |
| 21:14.40 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: :) |
| 21:16.51 | rm_work | DocScrutinizer: rofl |
| 21:17.02 | rm_work | does xrandr let me do it? :P |
| 21:17.06 | lcuk | rm_work, have you seen the n8 brightness control? |
| 21:17.10 | rm_work | lcuk: nope |
| 21:17.11 | lcuk | it is quite nifty |
| 21:17.29 | rm_work | honestly i'd be happy with a copy of the volume control slider that controls brightness instead |
| 21:17.29 | rm_work | but |
| 21:17.36 | rm_work | let's see what it has |
| 21:17.43 | rm_work | you got a screenshot? |
| 21:18.08 | lcuk | a mo |
| 21:18.29 | javispedro | rotation is not done using xrandr |
| 21:18.47 | javispedro | but if you patched libMTF, you could introduce arbitrary degree-precision rotation support |
| 21:18.56 | javispedro | so yes, you could have 45º rotation |
| 21:19.19 | rm_work | :P |
| 21:19.24 | DocScrutinizer | rm_work: I always though xrandr was all about that, yes |
| 21:19.25 | rm_work | libMTF is what it uses? |
| 21:19.30 | javispedro | (hopefully Qt components either follow the same MTF logic by copy'n'paste or link with MTF) |
| 21:20.01 | lcuk | rm_work, http://liqbase.net/20110717_001.jpg |
| 21:20.18 | lcuk | crap, i meant http://liqbase.net/20110718_002.jpg |
| 21:20.27 | javispedro | lcuk: what a big n8! ;) |
| 21:20.52 | rm_work | lol was about to ask |
| 21:20.57 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: smebody should push to make sure this is going to happen |
| 21:21.11 | rm_work | lcuk: ok so, what am I looking at here |
| 21:21.28 | lcuk | the first or the second pic? :) |
| 21:21.33 | rm_work | second |
| 21:21.34 | rm_work | lol |
| 21:21.34 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I already pushed enough when I called for xrandr rotation, I'm now in complacent mode. |
| 21:22.00 | lcuk | rm_work, that is the brightness controller on the n8, thats all |
| 21:22.03 | javispedro | it works. enough for me. now keep it stable for a few versions so that I can code SDL against that "rotation way". |
| 21:22.08 | rm_work | lcuk: right but how does it work... |
| 21:22.08 | lcuk | its just a slider with some info graphic to help |
| 21:22.21 | *** join/#harmattan Milhouse (~irc_milho@Maemo/community/contributor/Milhouse) |
| 21:22.21 | rm_work | lcuk: ah ok, i thought it might be more complicated than that |
| 21:22.27 | rm_work | it was not immediately apparent |
| 21:22.32 | lcuk | don't overthink, its symbian :P |
| 21:22.36 | rm_work | thought maybe you had to pick a circle or something |
| 21:22.37 | rm_work | lol |
| 21:22.50 | rm_work | seems like it is just taking extra space for the heck of it |
| 21:23.11 | rm_work | i mean, i could include something like just the bottom strip (black to white) for reference |
| 21:23.17 | rm_work | but it'd probably look a bit out of place |
| 21:23.35 | rm_work | let me look at the widgets i can use again |
| 21:24.44 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: is there a specific ticket against QtM or QML or whatever that needs to get opened? I have no overview about which level of system does/provides/fails-on what wrt orientation |
| 21:24.49 | lcuk | i have to say, tracy is wanting this n8, it is a well built phone o_O |
| 21:25.57 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: you might want to open a feature request for providing a way to lock an orientation externally in a MTF app. |
| 21:26.39 | DocScrutinizer | seems like xrandr, if implemented, would provide user-screen-orientation, but as it's not it's up to anybody's guess how to determine what's the system's logical orientation now |
| 21:26.48 | javispedro | xrandr will NOT be implemented |
| 21:26.54 | javispedro | I pushed it neraly half a year ago. |
| 21:26.57 | javispedro | even arjan agreed with me. |
| 21:27.09 | Venemo | meh. |
| 21:27.27 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I might have helped if only I knew about it |
| 21:27.32 | Venemo | I thought Maemo 5 used XRandR |
| 21:27.33 | DocScrutinizer | helped on pushing |
| 21:27.39 | javispedro | Venemo: yes, Harmattan doesn't. |
| 21:27.40 | DocScrutinizer | but probably just meh |
| 21:27.45 | Venemo | meh indeed. |
| 21:27.51 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: when the _kernel guy_ agrees with me and they don't implement it, well.. |
| 21:28.07 | javispedro | to give them a break, I understand that the rotation animation with xrandr is... hard. |
| 21:28.12 | DocScrutinizer | turns away, deeply depressed |
| 21:28.48 | xerxes2 | have a problem with raw qml, it shows a grey bar at the bottom |
| 21:28.59 | xerxes2 | anyone else seen that? |
| 21:29.13 | xerxes2 | fullscreen works fine though |
| 21:29.30 | DocScrutinizer | leaving room, mumbling "F*.-# animation, better do nothing than a simple thing?" |
| 21:29.52 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: still, a hook in MTF for an external orientation lock (gconf key, etc.) is probably a trivial feature request |
| 21:30.04 | javispedro | and if we can the major toolkits to agree on such a key |
| 21:30.12 | javispedro | it would be pretty decent. |
| 21:30.17 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 21:31.05 | javispedro | otherwise, you can still probably lock orientation if you lie to MTF apps about: |
| 21:31.12 | javispedro | the accelerometer and the keyboard open/closed state |
| 21:31.33 | javispedro | and the status of tv out |
| 21:31.52 | DocScrutinizer | yeah super!!! my spirit level will be as amused about that as your AR (oops was that SpeedEvil 's AR?) |
| 21:31.54 | javispedro | which are the inputs to their orientation detection algorithm |
| 21:31.59 | xerxes2 | so raw qml is locked to landcape always? |
| 21:32.11 | javispedro | xerxes2: as is raw qwidgets. |
| 21:32.17 | rm_work | wait, is there TV-out on this too? |
| 21:32.18 | xerxes2 | i see thanks |
| 21:32.31 | javispedro | rm_work: via headphone plug, N900-style. |
| 21:32.33 | rm_work | do I just need to use N900 cable for it? |
| 21:32.34 | DocScrutinizer | bbl, need a break |
| 21:32.41 | rm_work | k |
| 21:32.44 | rm_work | cool |
| 21:32.56 | DocScrutinizer | tested it, same quality as N900 basically |
| 21:33.07 | DocScrutinizer | cheers |
| 21:33.12 | javispedro | cya DocScrutinizer |
| 21:33.14 | rm_work | oh hey while i'm here, someone tell me how i should be taking care of the battery in this think |
| 21:33.18 | rm_work | *thing |
| 21:33.22 | rm_work | waves at DocScrutinizer |
| 21:33.59 | rm_work | should I be trying to keep it charged constantly (i'm at work or at home with a computer 90% of the day) so i could just leave it plugged in most of the time |
| 21:34.17 | rm_work | is that better for the battery than letting it drain every single day and plugging it in at night? or is it irrelevant |
| 21:34.31 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 21:34.38 | DocScrutinizer | better |
| 21:34.49 | rm_work | so keep it as fully charged as possible |
| 21:34.50 | rm_work | ? |
| 21:35.01 | DocScrutinizer | bme is rather "sane" (for whatever metrics of sane) on N950 |
| 21:35.08 | rm_work | k |
| 21:35.17 | DocScrutinizer | keep it "charging" |
| 21:35.20 | rm_work | k |
| 21:36.14 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: found one of the meego.com ML threads about rotation: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-November/480021.html |
| 21:36.22 | javispedro | November 2010, more than half a year :) |
| 21:42.49 | javispedro | have to go, cya |
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| 22:17.49 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-November/480038.html |
| 22:19.51 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, MeeGo 1.3 will swap to wayland anyway, so they will have a good excuse why they can do such nonsense. |
| 22:20.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, if everyting else fails, then just let's lennart and introduce the orientation daemon. API is dbus, apps will ask about orientation there and everything else the app devels don't need to care about. pusblish this NOW, and hype it on the fora and ML, and in wiki. ship an example app using it |
| 22:20.23 | Venemo | LoL |
| 22:20.31 | MohammadAG | Venemo, I wonder how MeeGo 1.3 and Harmattan will work together |
| 22:20.37 | Venemo | MohammadAG, in no way |
| 22:21.00 | Venemo | MohammadAG, if Nokia engineers come to their senses, then Harmattan+1 might be based on meego.com MeeGo... |
| 22:26.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | Venemo: just that there *are no more* Nokia engineers to do harmattan+1 |
| 22:26.22 | Venemo | there will be |
| 22:26.30 | Venemo | a "disruptive" (or whatever) device |
| 22:26.32 | Venemo | :D |
| 22:26.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | indeed it is |
| 22:29.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | somebody introduced the FOSS idea to Nokia and persuaded them to try it. 770, N800,810, N900 and Nokia started to hate it. N9 and they buried it for good |
| 22:30.47 | Venemo | but I don't understand why. |
| 22:31.00 | Venemo | they could have dominated the entire market if they got it right |
| 22:31.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | now Nokia is back to "the serious business" - with winP7 |
| 22:31.28 | Venemo | eh |
| 22:31.54 | Venemo | their attitude is the same. the managers are nuts, and they don't care about their customers |
| 22:32.10 | Venemo | I only feel sorry for their employees who are trying to make something out of all of that |
| 22:32.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | yup |
| 22:33.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | it probably sucks being a Nokia employee these days |
| 22:36.21 | ieatlint | you're overthinking it |
| 22:36.49 | ieatlint | nokia has/had a LOT more symbian guys than maemo guys |
| 22:36.58 | Venemo | indeed |
| 22:37.09 | Venemo | but they didn't manage to get Symbian right either |
| 22:37.10 | ieatlint | telling all of the symbian guys that this new thing called maemo is going to usurp you makes them fight back |
| 22:37.15 | ieatlint | they did, and everyone lost |
| 22:37.35 | Venemo | it's always the small details and the idiotic management decisions that ruin their stuff |
| 22:44.50 | SpeedEvil | The silly part is that they probably had plenty manpower to do both. |
| 22:44.55 | SpeedEvil | maemo/symbian |
| 22:45.21 | SpeedEvil | http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NOK |
| 22:45.23 | SpeedEvil | eeek |
| 22:46.30 | SpeedEvil | The peak in feb is around rumors of MSFT acquisition of nokia? |
| 22:46.33 | SpeedEvil | forgets. |
| 22:46.33 | Tronic | The stock has gone down steadily ever since Feb11. |
| 22:46.43 | Tronic | Feb11 = burning platform + WP7 announcement. |
| 22:46.50 | SpeedEvil | yeah - I know. |
| 22:47.13 | SpeedEvil | I think June was the detailed timescale for WP7 |
| 22:47.18 | SpeedEvil | (end of 2011) |
| 22:47.21 | Tronic | It will keep going down until the board announces a strategy shift and Elop is fired. |
| 22:47.23 | GAN900 | What a profoundly useless browser. |
| 22:47.52 | SpeedEvil | Tronic: Indeed. |
| 22:48.02 | SpeedEvil | I think selling nokia short is still a good plan. |
| 22:48.13 | Tronic | Unless some other company (Microsoft or some Chinese) makes a buy offer in attempt to overtake the company. |
| 22:48.21 | SpeedEvil | True |
| 22:48.45 | Tronic | Shorting might be a good idea still, yes, but I am not willing to risk my money on it either way. |
| 22:49.24 | SpeedEvil | The price is getting low enough that some of the big chinese makers might consider it worthwhile |
| 22:50.25 | Tronic | Especially the dumbphone segment (tech, factories, patents, marketing channels) should be interesting for the chinese. |
| 22:50.32 | SpeedEvil | yep. |
| 22:51.02 | Venemo | think about N900->N9(50)... there aren't THAT many things that they could have added to make us all buy it |
| 22:51.12 | Venemo | but they didn't, because the management is stupid |
| 22:51.20 | Tronic | (not to mention the Nokia brand, which still has value) |
| 22:51.26 | Venemo | Tronic ++ |
| 22:51.37 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: ? - what do you mean - that the n950 is saleable? |
| 22:52.18 | Tronic | Microsoft on the other hand might be planning to buy the smartphone unit and start manufacturing Microsoft branded smartphones but that doesn't seem so likely anymore. |
| 22:53.15 | Venemo | SpeedEvil, I mean that they should have added some features (mostly minor details) to Harmattan that could have made us all buy the N9 |
| 22:53.25 | Tronic | Well, I'm off to bed. I guess we'll see what the future brings, eventually. |
| 22:53.36 | Venemo | SpeedEvil, about not selling the N950, they made another mistake. |
| 22:54.08 | Tronic | My estimate is for N9 to become available Sep-Oct but since the release is nerfed, it is not going to be the big revolution it should be (I am talking iPhone 5 killer here). |
| 22:54.29 | SpeedEvil | Venemo: ah |
| 22:55.55 | SpeedEvil | Indeed - the 'right' way would be to go to maemo.org. Now - for everyone that's actually coded or ported an app - offer them a n950 |
| 22:56.03 | SpeedEvil | As a start. |
| 22:56.20 | SpeedEvil | Then everyone with karma >500 should get one. :) |
| 23:10.04 | DocScrutinizer | kill AEGIS!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 23:10.25 | GeneralAntilles | Got a long way to go until this is usable day-to-day. |
| 23:10.29 | GeneralAntilles | Gotta love the SDK integration, though. |
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| 23:10.44 | DocScrutinizer | ""nokia needs aegis and will keep it, as yoghurt sport and skype need it"" |
| 23:11.16 | DocScrutinizer | you SEE where that is targeting at |
| 23:11.45 | DocScrutinizer | FOSS is useless, let's care about those companies that SELL stuff via OVI |
| 23:13.07 | DocScrutinizer | ""what, there's mobile hotspot, an app that obsoletely yoghurt sport? Doesn't matter, as Yoghurt is a *commercial* player, and they generate money flow"" |
| 23:13.32 | DocScrutinizer | s/obsoletely/obsoletes/ |
| 23:15.15 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia always dreamt of being like Apple (allegedly is), earning their money with the appstore rather than with doing what they really know about: BUILD FRIGGIN EXCELLENT HW and sell it |
| 23:16.17 | DocScrutinizer | OVI never took off - who's to blame? The FOSS nerds |
| 23:16.25 | *** join/#harmattan cpscotti (~cpscotti@46.208.240.229) |
| 23:23.05 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia doesn't want "us" as customers, they want the google sheep and iPhone fanboys, that shell out the money without thinking, and don't complain about cherry and signed bootloaders and aegis, and esp who do not mess around with downloading things from OVI for free despite the fact Nokia placed a "lock" into apt. That's not how Nokia is used to do business, we are only valuable as coding monkeys |
| 23:24.45 | DocScrutinizer | and N900 showed we aren't controllable |
| 23:26.15 | DocScrutinizer | they planned to control us via aegis, but finally Nokia switched targets and now it's big business again, read "commercial aka winP7 aka a working ecosystem where people are used to buy what you offer to them" |
| 23:26.57 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, well, they have more numbers and more money, sadly. |
| 23:27.22 | DocScrutinizer | that's all what counts, when it comes to shareholder value |
| 23:28.22 | DocScrutinizer | there's no obligation and no liability for Nokia to furhter support that FOSS approach |
| 23:28.32 | DocScrutinizer | and it didn't pay back |
| 23:28.40 | DocScrutinizer | so it's binned now |
| 23:30.45 | DocScrutinizer | I attributed M6 the final nail to maemo's coffin, and well, it is |
| 23:32.19 | DocScrutinizer | if you love(d) maemo, stay with maemo, stay with M5 |
| 23:32.42 | DocScrutinizer | meego pretty obviously has no future at Nokia |
| 23:34.33 | DocScrutinizer | there'll be no Nokia supperted linux based OS for phones better than fremantle any time soon |
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| 23:59.32 | GeneralAntilles | Everyone judge fiferboy's FBReader! http://andrew.olmsted.ca/harmattan/packages/ |
