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| 02:30.21 | rm_you | errrr what |
| 02:30.25 | rm_you | http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia#FIXME_Unclear_cases_.26_lazy_wiki_editors |
| 02:30.32 | rm_you | how am i an unclear case or a lazy wiki editor |
| 02:30.57 | rm_you | the moment i received my device i updated it to say "Device Received". how more clear could i have gotten |
| 02:31.13 | rm_you | "Adam Harwell Device Received" |
| 02:31.41 | rm_you | i'm in with a bunch of people who didn't update |
| 02:31.51 | rm_you | that makes no sense |
| 02:32.24 | SpeedEvil | The editor can't edit properly pro bably |
| 02:32.33 | SpeedEvil | put your entry in the right group |
| 02:33.15 | rm_you | just annoying, because i was trying to be very purposefully helpful and keep my entry up to date |
| 02:33.27 | rm_you | and i get shoved in with a bunch of people who actually didn't |
| 02:36.05 | rm_you | edited. still weird. |
| 02:36.14 | rm_you | anywho, off to see captain america |
| 02:36.17 | rm_you | he's from AMERICA |
| 02:36.27 | rm_you | leaves |
| 02:41.15 | antman8969 | any one else have their n950s stop showing emoticons? |
| 02:41.20 | antman8969 | it's kind of annoying now |
| 02:45.57 | trx | wow, i didn't even get my n950 |
| 02:46.11 | trx | and you have trouble with emoticons.. |
| 02:46.12 | trx | :) |
| 02:46.38 | antman8969 | one day you'll be able to wonder what people are feeling in texts too |
| 02:46.51 | antman8969 | awesome :) != awesome :( |
| 02:53.04 | Termana | morning |
| 03:07.13 | GeneralAntilles | http://heytell.com/ |
| 03:07.14 | GeneralAntilles | ^ |
| 03:07.20 | GeneralAntilles | Somebody needs to implement that for Harmattan. |
| 03:07.27 | GeneralAntilles | Maybe just use MMS. |
| 03:08.57 | SpeedEvil | Not quite |
| 03:09.01 | SpeedEvil | It's a GSM feature. |
| 03:09.08 | SpeedEvil | Oh - maybe not |
| 03:09.18 | SpeedEvil | In that implementation. |
| 03:09.29 | SpeedEvil | But push-talk is a supported feature of GSM. |
| 03:09.49 | SpeedEvil | Seems that that might be VOIP instead |
| 03:10.19 | SpeedEvil | ah - yeah - voip |
| 03:41.49 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, right, but we'd have to host the backend servers then. |
| 03:42.01 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, would it be feasible to hook into Telepathy and MMS instead? |
| 03:42.24 | SpeedEvil | MMS is not a transparent byte stream. |
| 03:42.35 | SpeedEvil | It will only pass certain classes of object |
| 03:42.41 | GeneralAntilles | Ah, OK. |
| 03:42.49 | SpeedEvil | Also - it's murderously expensive. |
| 03:42.53 | GeneralAntilles | True |
| 03:45.59 | DocScrutinizer | (AFAIK:) basically MMS is just sending a "special" SMS with an URL that points to a the real content, which is then going to get downloaded usually from a "darknet" I.E. a dedicated APN, that also has its own charging plan |
| 03:46.37 | GeneralAntilles | Aaah, right then. |
| 03:46.47 | DocScrutinizer | s/sending/addressee receiving/ |
| 03:46.51 | GeneralAntilles | So, then, no MMS. |
| 03:46.57 | GeneralAntilles | Just push it all over Telepathy? |
| 03:48.01 | GeneralAntilles | (Does that previous sentence actually mean anything?) |
| 03:48.44 | DocScrutinizer | mine? sorry was a bit scrambled maybe |
| 03:49.50 | GeneralAntilles | No, mine about Telepathy. |
| 03:49.53 | GeneralAntilles | Yours was perfect. |
| 03:50.28 | SpeedEvil | In principle, it's not that expensive. |
| 03:50.34 | SpeedEvil | Find a flexible web service. |
| 03:50.43 | SpeedEvil | Something like amazon. |
| 03:50.54 | SpeedEvil | Which you can scale arbitrarily, to act like a bouncer |
| 03:51.15 | DocScrutinizer | MMS means the provider's MMS exchange sends a special SMS to addressee. This SMS is much like a normal SMS but holds a URL pointing to a server with your multimedia content. The download from this server will be like TCP but not via public internet usually. Rather it uses a dedicated APN for access to a closed WAN |
| 03:51.35 | DocScrutinizer | meh, and I tried so hard to get a better one ;-P |
| 03:52.11 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, hey, practice makes perfect, right? :P |
| 03:55.22 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, I'm practicing patience and restraint on dealing with trolls like fahadj2003 and un_abill_uk |
| 03:55.35 | Termana | Does HeyTell use MMS? I think the good part of it, at least from the demo, is it seems to be instant. I don't know about everyone else but MMS has always been SLOW as a dog for me, so something tells me it's not. |
| 03:55.48 | DocScrutinizer | I'm afraid I'll never get perfect on that discipline though |
| 03:55.55 | GeneralAntilles | No, it's VoIP or something. |
| 03:57.21 | DocScrutinizer | PTT? afaik that's more or less like parking/putting_on_hold a normal (or conference) call |
| 03:58.13 | DocScrutinizer | there was a similar feature for ISDN since dunno 1990 |
| 03:59.34 | DocScrutinizer | basically you keep the INVITE/session (the connection), and just stop data transmission. Resume is almost instant (nn milliseconds) |
| 04:01.22 | DocScrutinizer | for PTT it's also one-to-many (conference), and half-duplex (you can't listen while you speak - aka PushToTalk :-D ) usually |
| 04:02.25 | DocScrutinizer | (/AFAIK) |
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| 05:14.39 | Stskeeps | mgedmin: use meego.com login |
| 05:38.12 | rm_you | errr |
| 05:38.29 | rm_you | am i the only person that doesn't understand what the difference is between this push to talk thing, and making a damn phonecall? |
| 05:38.54 | rm_you | except that push to talk is more annoying and you have to constantly be pressing a button? |
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| 05:39.15 | DocScrutinizer | rm_you: call setup is instant |
| 05:39.30 | rm_you | umm |
| 05:39.32 | rm_you | like |
| 05:39.37 | rm_you | when you press the "call button"? |
| 05:39.37 | DocScrutinizer | rm_you: far end doesn't need to accept call, as it'S already established |
| 05:39.42 | rm_you | ah. |
| 05:39.44 | rm_you | so |
| 05:39.52 | rm_you | basically an auto-accept? |
| 05:39.55 | rm_you | that sounds like a bad idea |
| 05:40.02 | rm_you | wouldn't it have to let you know a message is ready |
| 05:40.06 | rm_you | and you then click play? |
| 05:40.22 | rm_you | at which point, just answer the phone |
| 05:40.37 | DocScrutinizer | that is implementation detail - how does that matter |
| 05:40.42 | rm_you | this demo is entirely un-enlightening |
| 05:41.08 | DocScrutinizer | PTT is walkie-talkie for GSM |
| 05:42.14 | rm_you | i guess i could see applications if it were broadcast like a walkie talkie |
| 05:42.18 | rm_you | so multiple people could get it |
| 05:42.26 | rm_you | otherwise i still don't see why not just make a phone call |
| 05:42.28 | DocScrutinizer | it isa |
| 05:42.32 | DocScrutinizer | is* |
| 05:42.37 | rm_you | ok so... |
| 05:42.49 | rm_you | you just need to make the initial handshake |
| 05:42.55 | rm_you | can we intercept SMS? |
| 05:43.04 | DocScrutinizer | read backscroll, I explained about that |
| 05:43.07 | rm_you | yeah |
| 05:43.10 | rm_you | but |
| 05:43.15 | rm_you | not sending messages over SMS |
| 05:43.33 | rm_you | SMS communicates the invite to a "channel" or somesuch |
| 05:43.41 | rm_you | with connect-back details |
| 05:43.49 | rm_you | probably would require something like a tracker |
| 05:43.56 | rm_you | (like a bittorrent tracker) |
| 05:44.09 | rm_you | except instead of joining a bittorrent swarm, you join a call |
| 05:44.26 | rm_you | the tracker maintains connection details to active clients (phones0 |
| 05:44.27 | rm_you | ) |
| 05:44.39 | rm_you | and the rest is P2P |
| 05:44.56 | rm_you | the only SMS is the first invite |
| 05:44.59 | DocScrutinizer | nfc, I only know GSM based PTT |
| 05:45.22 | rm_you | the app intercepts the invite-SMS, and opens itself and says "you've been invited to this conversation, join?" |
| 05:45.40 | rm_you | and it basically just has the tracker IP and the convo UID |
| 05:45.51 | rm_you | so then you become an active client |
| 05:45.57 | rm_you | and the rest works like bittorrent |
| 05:46.14 | rm_you | actually it could work EXACTLY like BT |
| 05:46.24 | rm_you | your message gets sent to everyone in the convo |
| 05:46.34 | rm_you | and once one or two have it, they can help send parts :P |
| 05:46.44 | rm_you | i'm just saying, that's an idea about how to do it |
| 05:46.57 | rm_you | probably it is not set up that way at all for heytell, lol |
| 05:47.35 | DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_to_talk#Current_use_in_mobile_telephony_.28PoC.29 |
| 05:48.09 | rm_you | i'm not really talking about how it ACTUALLY works, i'm just theorizing one way to accomplish the end result |
| 05:48.41 | rm_you | this sounds much to limiting, compared to what i was theorizing |
| 05:56.00 | DocScrutinizer | >>PTT. OMA PoC also assumed it is a service for consumers which is not true. PTT/PoC is an enterprise service. On the bottom line, it is more of a North American phenomenon due to existence of iDEN and other networks. Other parts of the world do not know the service and operators are having a hard time identifying who needs this service<< |
| 05:56.11 | rm_you | lol |
| 06:16.20 | rm_you | well i've expended all of my ingenuity for the night |
| 06:16.24 | rm_you | it's sleep time ;P |
| 06:16.28 | rm_you | sleeps |
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| 07:04.06 | RST38h | Anyone has got an example of adding items to the application toolbar? |
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| 08:08.16 | hiemanshu | RST38h: widgets gallery? |
| 08:10.51 | dm8tbr | ponders how to figure out how to reimplement the google-talk account plugin to make telepathy work with arbitrary xmpp servers |
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| 08:23.58 | Arkenoi | dm8tbr: where can i get google talk account plugin? |
| 08:24.43 | dm8tbr | Arkenoi: I saw a screenshot somewhere |
| 08:25.44 | Arkenoi | ah. i guess it is not released yet. |
| 08:25.52 | dm8tbr | Arkenoi: more interesting is that there is telepathy and probably telpathy-gabble |
| 08:26.22 | Arkenoi | yes, both are in default install, but not account plugin |
| 08:26.51 | dm8tbr | now the interesting thing will be to make an account-ui that makes telepathy talk to XMPP servers |
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| 08:36.42 | RST38h | Anyone actually developing for n950 here? |
| 08:39.05 | rcg | yep |
| 08:39.21 | rcg | morning btw ;) |
| 08:39.50 | mikhas | raises hand |
| 08:40.07 | rcg | i think most people in here are developing for n950 |
| 08:42.41 | ieatlint | n9/50... yeah... kinda wasting your time in this channel otherwise |
| 08:43.41 | RST38h | rcg, ieatlint: Could you enlighten me on how to add items to that gray toolbar at the bottom of harmattan QMainWindow??? |
| 08:43.54 | RST38h | I cannot even get a pointer to this toolbar... |
| 08:44.23 | Stskeeps | RST38h: i think you're in for a world of hurt if you rely on meegotouch-qt-style :P |
| 08:44.31 | ieatlint | uh, grey toolbar at the bottom? |
| 08:44.51 | rcg | RST38h: well i did all my ui stuff in qml.. there its pretty straightforward to do this |
| 08:44.57 | ieatlint | yeah, you should be using qml, or if you're feeling particularly adventurous, mtf |
| 08:45.01 | RST38h | Stskeeps: I am using QMainWindow, it is plain Qt, syntactically |
| 08:45.12 | RST38h | rcg,ieatlint: ok, thanks |
| 08:45.18 | RST38h | Anyone who knows the answer? |
| 08:45.46 | RST38h | Stskeeps: and, as the bar shows up anyway, I can just as well use it for adding items, right? |
| 08:45.53 | ieatlint | i suspect you won't find the answer you're looking for... mtf is as close as you'll get without touching qml |
| 08:45.54 | Stskeeps | RST38h: yes, just warning you that qt probably isn't styled in any mobile way on final devices |
| 08:46.10 | Stskeeps | RST38h: a screenshot would help |
| 08:46.36 | ieatlint | i think you're just seeing the statusbar that's part of a qmainwindow |
| 08:46.43 | rcg | well.. plain qt apps on the n950 essentially look like plain desktop apps |
| 08:46.56 | ieatlint | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qmainwindow.html#statusBar |
| 08:47.04 | ieatlint | but that won't behave as you think it will |
| 08:47.32 | RST38h | Stskeeps: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6124/5967615095_383c5b6427.jpg (the one with the plus) |
| 08:47.55 | RST38h | ieatlint: attempts to remove the status bar do not. |
| 08:48.05 | Stskeeps | RST38h: is that qml or not? |
| 08:48.07 | rcg | qml actually aint that hard.. and you can quite easily interact with your existing Qt/C++ classes |
| 08:48.13 | RST38h | Stskeeps: QMainWindow,no qml |
| 08:48.21 | ieatlint | RST38h: the notes app is either qml or mtf, i don't know which |
| 08:48.29 | Stskeeps | RST38h: ok, how does this look with -style plastique? :P |
| 08:48.29 | ieatlint | but it's not straight qt methinks |
| 08:48.34 | Stskeeps | meegotouch-qt-style is -really really buggy- |
| 08:48.36 | RST38h | Stskeeps: dunno, lemme try |
| 08:49.20 | RST38h | Stskeeps: looks the same |
| 08:50.08 | Stskeeps | RST38h: doesn't sound right, should revert to plain-qt |
| 08:50.31 | RST38h | Stskeeps: nope |
| 08:50.36 | RST38h | Stskeeps: always shows up. |
| 08:54.09 | RST38h | Stskeeps: every single harmattan app comes with this bar.Plain QMainWindow shows up with this bar (no MTF in sight) |
| 08:54.20 | RST38h | Stskeeps: and you are saying it should not be there? =) |
| 08:54.31 | Stskeeps | RST38h: pretty much, as your ui very much looks styled |
| 08:54.58 | RST38h | hmmmmmmm |
| 08:55.11 | RST38h | that screenshot was not my ui btw, simply an example |
| 08:56.08 | MohammadAG | RST38h, try showFullscreen() in main.cpp |
| 08:56.28 | RST38h | Yes, it hides the bar |
| 08:56.31 | frals | the bar is the toolbar, dunno how its supported in plain qt applications though... |
| 08:56.40 | RST38h | Mohamad: But I would like to add some buttons to it |
| 08:56.55 | MohammadAG | RST38h, QMenuBar |
| 08:56.59 | RST38h | frals: Can I get a pointer to it somehow, from QMainWindow? |
| 08:56.59 | frals | i have a feeling you would have to do qml or mtf to control it, but im just speculating |
| 08:57.18 | frals | or yeah, maybe qmenubar as MohammadAG says |
| 08:57.25 | RST38h | Mohammad: adding a menu bar creates a new bar |
| 08:57.31 | MohammadAG | o_O |
| 08:57.33 | RST38h | Mohammad:in Qt default style |
| 08:57.45 | RST38h | Mohammad: asking for a status bar also create a new status bar |
| 08:57.52 | RST38h | in Qt default style as well |
| 08:57.59 | MohammadAG | my QMenuBar shows as a button in the bottom right |
| 08:58.05 | RST38h | So, this thick gray thing is something else |
| 08:58.15 | RST38h | Mohammad: Shows as a real desktop-like bar here |
| 08:58.26 | MohammadAG | hmm, that's weird |
| 08:58.42 | MohammadAG | gets on his laptop |
| 09:00.10 | MohammadAG | oh nice, laptop doesn't turn on |
| 09:00.12 | RST38h | Mohammad: Try calling menuBar() and statusBar() on your QMainWindow.See if you get extra bars. |
| 09:01.43 | MohammadAG | Looks like it's fried or something |
| 09:03.02 | RST38h | hmmm |
| 09:03.52 | MohammadAG | and my N900's uSD looks fried too |
| 09:04.19 | MohammadAG | 49894.842987] mmc0: error -110 whilst initialising SD card |
| 09:04.21 | MohammadAG | fuck |
| 09:04.30 | MohammadAG | there goes my music library |
| 09:04.42 | RST38h | remove, reinsert |
| 09:04.47 | Stskeeps | yeah, what rst38h said |
| 09:04.48 | MohammadAG | done that |
| 09:04.51 | ieatlint | but on the plus side, you apparently got your n950 |
| 09:04.57 | Stskeeps | perhaps take it past a pc |
| 09:05.05 | RST38h | The Tentacled One rarely strikes all gadgets at once. |
| 09:05.21 | MohammadAG | it's back |
| 09:05.35 | ieatlint | fsm? |
| 09:05.36 | MohammadAG | and my laptop turned on, weird |
| 09:05.54 | RST38h | Ok, an easier question: how do I listen to QActions using a single function and distinguish which QAction triggered it> |
| 09:05.56 | RST38h | ? |
| 09:06.01 | MohammadAG | oh fuck |
| 09:06.13 | MohammadAG | I had the a different HP charger in it |
| 09:06.14 | RST38h | the connect() approach does not appear to let e do it |
| 09:06.41 | ieatlint | RST38h: there's a macro that tells you the calling object for a slot, but i've been told it's sloppy to use it |
| 09:07.07 | RST38h | will be sloppy when everything else fails. |
| 09:07.23 | ieatlint | trying to find it |
| 09:08.12 | ieatlint | QObject::sender() ... ok, not a macro |
| 09:08.54 | ieatlint | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qobject.html#sender |
| 09:09.07 | ieatlint | complete with the warnings that it's not a good idea to use most of the time |
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| 09:11.37 | RST38h | ieatlint: thanks =) |
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| 09:30.58 | RST38h | sbox-HARMATTAN_ARMEL: /host/EMUL8/Speccy/Meego/Package] > /usr/bin/moc |
| 09:30.58 | RST38h | bash: /usr/bin/moc: No such file or directory |
| 09:32.12 | RST38h | wonders if QActions can be used without resorting to signals, slots, and the moc madness |
| 09:32.51 | ieatlint | uh, missing moc means your toolchain is broken |
| 09:33.21 | ieatlint | i don't think you'll avoid moc by not using signal anyway |
| 09:34.38 | RST38h | of course I will |
| 09:34.41 | RST38h | already have |
| 09:35.08 | RST38h | the moc binary is actually there, sb just can't run it |
| 09:35.17 | ieatlint | heh, nice |
| 09:35.37 | ieatlint | and generally no, using qaction without signals/slots is a bad idea |
| 09:36.27 | ieatlint | you might be able to accomplish it by subclassing qaction and reimplementing event() to do your own bidding |
| 09:36.45 | ieatlint | but remember event() should return quickly... and enjoy working on cross thread communication without signals/slots |
| 09:37.32 | RST38h | ieatlint: ah, goodidea |
| 09:38.07 | RST38h | goes off to subclass QAction |
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| 09:38.57 | ieatlint | is happy he'll never have to maintain RST38h's code :) |
| 09:43.25 | vandenoever | wonders how to paste from clipboard to terminal on n950 |
| 09:45.59 | kimju | I don't think it is possible currently. |
| 09:46.43 | kimju | on meego-terminal git there are newer version that has some copy/paste support, but not yet enabled on mtf. |
| 09:47.00 | vandenoever | kimju: what is mtf? |
| 09:47.27 | kimju | meegotouchframework |
| 09:47.36 | RST38h | ieatlint: much cleaner than you think |
| 09:47.46 | vandenoever | ok, so it's pretty integral |
| 09:48.09 | RST38h | ieatlint: just becase qt trolls tell you they do not like something, does not mean it can be used sanely |
| 09:48.54 | kimju | https://gitorious.org/meego-terminal/meego-terminal/commit/f268c844b2ef4eed63f10b72e9a6cdb0a758f31c |
| 09:49.17 | ieatlint | i can believe that about qobject::sender(), but subclassing qaction to avoid using the triggered() signal seems scary to me |
| 09:51.59 | RST38h | ieatlint: I am not avoiding anything |
| 09:52.42 | RST38h | ieatlint: I have got code that handles menu items as virtual key clicks |
| 09:53.02 | RST38h | ieatlint: which makes my code portable, unlike the stuff produced by the qt team |
| 09:53.47 | RST38h | ieatlint: Now, since I am only interested in QAction::data() field and not in creating a separate callback function for each QAction, the signal/slot model is basically useless for me, a hindrance if you wish |
| 09:54.13 | RST38h | Hence QAction subclassing, thanks for the tip |
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| 10:30.57 | RST38h | Nah, it is weird but QAction activations are NOT sent through QAction::event() |
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| 10:32.59 | RST38h | MOOO wazd |
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| 10:44.38 | RST38h | Stskeeps,are you there? |
| 10:45.10 | wazd_ | RST38h: o/ |
| 10:47.05 | RST38h | Why would sb1 fail to run moc? |
| 10:47.18 | RST38h | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:47.32 | RST38h | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:49.30 | kimju | is other host-* binaries working? |
| 10:49.39 | RST38h | trying |
| 10:50.06 | RST38h | host-cpp runs |
| 10:50.10 | RST38h | host-rcc does not |
| 10:50.15 | RST38h | host-qmake does not |
| 10:50.35 | kimju | run on host, as root: /etc/init.d/scratchbox-core restart |
| 10:50.41 | RST38h | All /usr/bin/host-* tools fail to run |
| 10:50.49 | RST38h | aha |
| 10:51.24 | RST38h | runs now! thanks, what was it? |
| 10:52.11 | kimju | that restarted the sb emulation processes etc.. |
| 11:07.44 | *** join/#harmattan eman (~lemmings@124-168-12-42.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 11:10.51 | *** join/#harmattan leinir_ (~leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
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| 11:57.21 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, what is the filesystem point for the compass again? |
| 12:01.42 | *** join/#harmattan mikhas (~michael@p54946ADB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:12.13 | lbt | do we have any official Debian Developers (or MOTU (or similar)) around who can *mentor* (not do) getting some fundamental packages into Surrounds:Testing (like debhelper and friends) |
| 12:12.46 | lbt | eg M4rtinK2 is having issues with dependencies whilst preparing debhelper and dpkg-dev |
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| 12:21.28 | RST38h | Ok. QML time now, I guess |
| 12:21.34 | RST38h | Stskeeps: still here? |
| 12:23.52 | Stskeeps | no |
| 12:23.56 | Stskeeps | has to go |
| 12:29.42 | RST38h | Stskeeps: wait wait short question |
| 12:30.00 | RST38h | Stskeeps: /usr or /opt ? Where do I install on N950 to stay kosher? |
| 12:30.17 | *** join/#harmattan leinir_ (~leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
| 12:36.19 | mikhas | If you install to N950 then at least device stays kosher. |
| 12:36.21 | mikhas | =p |
| 12:36.36 | mikhas | RST38h, no optification on N950 AFAIK |
| 12:39.40 | SpeedEvil | Is / on emmc? |
| 12:46.25 | RST38h | Still, need to know what the preferred install point is |
| 12:46.43 | thp | SpeedEvil: / is ~ 3.9 GB here (N950) |
| 12:47.02 | thp | RST38h: /opt/<appname>/ i think for 3rd party apps on meego |
| 12:47.29 | thp | RST38h: although everything will work and there is no technical reason for optification on harmattan anymore |
| 12:47.32 | RST38h | thp: aha |
| 12:48.00 | thp | so if you already have packaging that installs into /usr/{bin/,...}, that's okay too I guess |
| 12:48.22 | thp | ovi store and/or appup might have different requirements, i'm not sure. but /opt/<appname>/ should make the stores happy as well |
| 12:55.45 | RST38h | thp: Do you by any chance know how to add stuff to the gray toolbar at the bottom of QMainWindow? |
| 12:57.44 | SpeedEvil | thp: I guess there is no small flash device on the n950 then? |
| 13:04.37 | lcuk | my n950 won't bootup :S |
| 13:04.52 | macmaN | lcuk: what you do |
| 13:05.02 | lcuk | battery went flat |
| 13:05.10 | lcuk | it is a clean flash with no mods |
| 13:05.21 | lcuk | now plugged into charger for ages nothing will happen |
| 13:05.34 | lcuk | when I plug charger in the led flashes for 0.1s max |
| 13:05.52 | lcuk | ahh bit more now |
| 13:06.00 | lcuk | a few times and the led is on, prolly charging now |
| 13:07.02 | lcuk | hmm back off again |
| 13:07.21 | lcuk | would pop the n900 battery at this point normally to ensure clean boot organisation |
| 13:28.38 | *** join/#harmattan lardman (~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman) |
| 13:28.46 | lardman | afternoon all |
| 13:30.05 | lcuk | hi lardman |
| 13:30.36 | lardman | hey lcuk |
| 13:31.07 | lcuk | lardman, I implemented polyfill routine :) |
| 13:31.23 | lcuk | took lots of math and logic and has been bugging me for a while |
| 13:31.24 | lardman | like flood-fill? |
| 13:31.31 | lcuk | scanline polyfill |
| 13:31.48 | lardman | flood filling a shape with lots of sides? |
| 13:31.52 | lcuk | yeah |
| 13:31.55 | lardman | cool |
| 13:32.10 | lardman | I've got some docs about that for my image processing course |
| 13:32.34 | RST38h | If I want to install qmlviewer to the device, what package should I install? |
| 13:32.34 | lcuk | it looks pretty when implemented too: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110731_011052.flower.scr.png |
| 13:32.38 | RST38h | moos at lardman |
| 13:32.57 | lardman | hi RST38h |
| 13:32.58 | thp | RST38h: no, sorry. i just know that you can get rid of it by using showMaximized() or showFullScreen() |
| 13:33.06 | RST38h | thp: Yeah |
| 13:33.15 | thp | SpeedEvil: i'm not sure if there's a small flash device. if there is, it isn't used for the rootfs at least |
| 13:33.27 | RST38h | thp: But I need to create a finger-sized toolbar and would like to use the one that is already created |
| 13:33.42 | thp | RST38h: it's not related to QAction or something? or maybe some toolbar-related stuff? |
| 13:33.54 | RST38h | thp: I cannot even find a handle to it |
| 13:34.13 | RST38h | thp:any attempts to get menuBar,statusBar, etc fromthe QMainWindow simplycreate a tiny Qt bar |
| 13:41.43 | RST38h | Shit, I am completely lost :( The SB1 qmlviewer does not work inside SB1. I cannot find a qmlviewer package to install on N950. And if I simply copy a binary, aegis will prevent it from working. |
| 13:42.04 | RST38h | So, HOW THE HELL am I supposed to "get started on QtQuick components"???? |
| 13:43.08 | RST38h | + I am unable to add a finger-friendly toolbar ormenu bar without QML, as it seems |
| 13:43.54 | thp | RST38h: try installing a qmlviewer .deb |
| 13:45.23 | thp | RST38h: or use pyside :p a qmlviewer is a few lines of code. i can pastebin it somewhere if you like (the python binary is already aegis-blessed, so you can run arbitrary python scripts) |
| 13:46.04 | RST38h | yes I know it is a few lines |
| 13:46.14 | RST38h | but I amnotgoing to go through my own writing and packaging of it |
| 13:46.22 | RST38h | where is the deb anyway? |
| 13:46.23 | *** join/#harmattan eman (~lemmings@124-168-12-42.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:46.35 | thp | hmm i'm not sure. just tried googling for it, but didn't find it |
| 13:46.52 | RST38h | exactly |
| 13:49.00 | RST38h | found it |
| 13:49.02 | mikhas | have you tried installing qt4-qmlviewer |
| 13:50.17 | hiemanshu | I wonder if the SDK on the phone is any different from the normal SDK? |
| 13:50.41 | lardman | has given qt quick a skip |
| 13:50.52 | lardman | for some reason the SDK lacks the viewer application on my laptop |
| 13:51.14 | mikhas | lardman, probably not using Qt 4.8 |
| 13:51.31 | lardman | mikhas: yeah quite possibly |
| 13:51.36 | lardman | what comes with the N950? |
| 13:52.12 | hiemanshu | lardman: its an online installer, that *does't* work though, and the size of the file is a little different |
| 13:52.14 | mikhas | 4.7.4 |
| 13:52.25 | mikhas | well, the device actually has a patched Qt 4.7.4 |
| 13:52.33 | hiemanshu | ah damn, you meant mikhas, /me *facepalm* |
| 13:52.53 | lardman | Yep, thought I was using 4.7.something |
| 13:53.16 | lardman | iirc you do finally get the qml viewer but only if you install the Symbian stuff too |
| 13:53.28 | lardman | which is slightly counter intuitive |
| 13:56.19 | lardman | curses plugins and symbol lookup errors |
| 13:59.03 | lardman | ouch, nearly burned my toe on my Dell laptop charger brick |
| 13:59.12 | lardman | that seems quite warm |
| 14:03.02 | lardman | any ideas on what might cause a symbol lookup error in a qt plugin? |
| 14:04.38 | RST38h | extra extern "C"? |
| 14:05.05 | lardman | no extern "C"s present |
| 14:05.20 | RST38h | maybe there must be? |
| 14:06.22 | lardman | reads the plugin writing docs again |
| 14:06.30 | alterego | lardman: it's normal, my Dell PSU block I can use to cook bacon .. |
| 14:06.39 | lardman | alterego: lol, ok |
| 14:07.37 | alterego | They should make laptop PSUs switch mode, I wouldn't mind paying more for a more environmentally friendly option. |
| 14:09.04 | lardman | I'm quite impressed, just got 850Mb/s download rate on my home broadband |
| 14:09.21 | lardman | hmm, that must be Kb of course |
| 14:10.31 | alterego | Heh |
| 14:10.46 | alterego | I doubt you could get that down an ethernet cable ;) |
| 14:10.58 | lardman | yeah, talking of cooking bacon ;) |
| 14:11.03 | alterego | But if you have 1GB/s BB, wow :D |
| 14:12.24 | lardman | yeah yeah, it's been a long weekend, mother in law visiting, brain adled, etc. :p |
| 14:12.31 | lardman | ;) |
| 14:15.39 | lardman | any clues how I enable sftp-server under opensuse? |
| 14:20.29 | SpeedEvil | alterego: They all are switched mode. |
| 14:20.29 | alterego | Hmm, they don't have it enabled by default? |
| 14:20.43 | SpeedEvil | alterego: Since maybe 15 years ago at least |
| 14:20.54 | alterego | SpeedEvil: mine doesn't feel like it, it weights a tonne and gets hotter than the sun. |
| 14:21.09 | SpeedEvil | How many watts is it? |
| 14:21.25 | alterego | 90 |
| 14:21.47 | SpeedEvil | A 90W linear supply transformer will weigh around a kilo |
| 14:21.49 | lardman | not sure re sftp, perhaps it's my firewall setup, will have to check |
| 14:21.52 | SpeedEvil | Maybe a little more |
| 14:22.11 | SpeedEvil | Then there is the heatsinks and stuff - ti's likely to end up at two |
| 14:22.14 | alterego | lardman: if you can ssh, it should work .. |
| 14:22.31 | alterego | SpeedEvil: fair point |
| 14:22.32 | lardman | interestingly I can ssh into the N950 but not sftp |
| 14:22.42 | alterego | You're right, it must be switched mode .. |
| 14:22.51 | alterego | I didn't think they got this hot though. |
| 14:22.57 | SpeedEvil | Laptop bricks get hot as they have small surface area |
| 14:23.05 | alterego | I guess with 90W anything is gonna heat up. |
| 14:23.18 | SpeedEvil | 90% efficiency still means there is 10W waste heat |
| 14:24.19 | lardman | transfers leftover harmattan sdk files from laptop to PC to save downloading them again |
| 14:56.36 | *** join/#harmattan hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 15:00.03 | lcuk | oh cock |
| 15:00.20 | lcuk | pkg-config |
| 15:00.20 | lcuk | bash: /usr/bin/pkg-config: No such file or directory |
| 15:00.36 | lcuk | the file exists, is a binary but returns that whenever called |
| 15:00.48 | *** join/#harmattan Arkenoi (~ark@178.177.72.30) |
| 15:00.51 | lcuk | only occured since installing harmattan scratchbox |
| 15:01.05 | lcuk | any idea what is causing it? |
| 15:02.13 | kimju | lcuk, at host or within SB? |
| 15:03.45 | kimju | if within SB, try to run on host, as root: /etc/init.d/scratchbox-core restart |
| 15:16.10 | lcuk | kimju, it was within sb |
| 15:16.15 | lcuk | i reinstalled the target |
| 15:16.18 | lcuk | and its working again |
| 15:16.33 | lcuk | something in the harmattan install mucked up the fremantle sb target |
| 15:16.48 | lcuk | not sure what, resolved by twiddling. moved on.. |
| 15:17.16 | timoph | lcuk: does qmake work for you in harmattan scratchbox arm target? |
| 15:18.38 | timoph | or does it give "no such file or directory" as it does for me |
| 15:19.01 | *** join/#harmattan leinir_ (~leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
| 15:19.11 | kimju | timoph, I had such problems earlier, restarting sbox fixed those. |
| 15:19.24 | timoph | tries |
| 15:19.58 | timoph | hah. it works! |
| 15:20.00 | timoph | thanks |
| 15:21.00 | lcuk | timoph, that was same kind of error I was getting |
| 15:21.06 | lcuk | but different file |
| 15:21.23 | lcuk | since packages created in fremantle sb appear to work on harmattan |
| 15:23.40 | timoph | has anyone filed a bug about that? |
| 15:24.23 | lardman | hmm, trying to install harmattan sb ontop of fremantle version seems to have gone wrong |
| 15:25.08 | lcuk | lardman, |
| 15:25.17 | lcuk | i just went into sb-menu |
| 15:25.22 | lcuk | and remade the target |
| 15:25.31 | lcuk | and it all worked again i think |
| 15:25.47 | lcuk | well, I am using it |
| 15:25.51 | lcuk | so its working lol |
| 15:26.24 | lardman | so using the old version of sb? |
| 15:26.41 | *** join/#harmattan trx (~ns-team@212.200.198.221) |
| 15:27.24 | *** join/#harmattan Arkenoi_ (~ark@178.177.72.30) |
| 15:27.42 | lardman | http://pastebin.com/P5bv0xdX is what I'm getting |
| 15:29.10 | lcuk | lardman, oh i never got asked about scratchbox versions |
| 15:29.19 | lcuk | dunno what that is, my problems were within scratchbox itself |
| 15:30.27 | lardman | but did you already have Fremantle SB installed>? |
| 15:30.56 | lcuk | yes |
| 15:31.07 | lcuk | i used the harmattan gui installer thing outside sb |
| 15:31.14 | lardman | hmm, ok, perhaps something to do with the fact this is a 64bit os then? |
| 15:31.14 | lcuk | and it correctly afaik installed everything |
| 15:31.23 | lcuk | it was only when i tried to use the fremantle builder |
| 15:31.30 | lcuk | it got knickers in a twist |
| 15:31.31 | lardman | same here, but it's gone tits up half way through |
| 15:31.39 | alterego | Mine worked on 64 bit ubuntu 10.10 |
| 15:31.59 | lardman | alterego: oh right, mine is 64bit Ubuntu 11.04 iirc |
| 15:32.39 | alterego | Well, I've not tried that unfortunately as 11.04 doesn't work with the N900 tethering. |
| 15:33.17 | lardman | I might just start from scratch |
| 15:37.48 | lardman | hmm, takes rather a long time to scan one of the camera images for barcodes |
| 15:40.25 | *** join/#harmattan leinir (~leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
| 15:50.05 | SpeedEvil | passes lardman a book entitled 'Programming the DSP on the OMAP processors' |
| 15:50.36 | leinir | gah... how do i reference an Item in the content area of a Sheet?! |
| 15:58.28 | DocScrutinizer | moo |
| 15:59.29 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: f = open("/dev/ak89740", "rb") |
| 16:07.34 | lcuk | well my n950 wont bootup |
| 16:07.41 | lcuk | mehs and tries something else |
| 16:07.49 | macmaN | i thought i heard that a few hours ago |
| 16:13.22 | dm8tbr | gnagnagna, device comes with python but no python-bluez |
| 16:14.48 | Arkenoi | how can i view dmesg on n950? |
| 16:20.37 | lcuk | how do I make n950 reboot / power cycle |
| 16:23.36 | lardman | SpeedEvil: too late, but thanks :) |
| 16:23.56 | Tronic | lcuk: ssh root@localhost, reboot |
| 16:24.45 | Tronic | There is devel-su or some other (better) way for getting root access too. |
| 16:25.05 | *** join/#harmattan leinir (~leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
| 16:26.55 | lcuk | Tronic, device is bricklike state |
| 16:27.07 | lcuk | the led will light when i insert usb |
| 16:27.14 | lcuk | for about 5 seconds max |
| 16:27.18 | dm8tbr | lcuk: hold down power for 10s |
| 16:27.26 | lcuk | other than that, it is a very shiny pebble |
| 16:27.27 | mikhas | lcuk, use flasher and disable life guards |
| 16:27.29 | dm8tbr | lcuk: did it deep discharge? |
| 16:27.30 | lcuk | with usb in? |
| 16:27.40 | lcuk | dm8tbr, it must have done |
| 16:27.43 | lcuk | mikhas, eek |
| 16:27.48 | Arkenoi | tried to forkbomb n950, amazingly it survived and properly killed offending processes when load became too high without affecting normal functions |
| 16:27.49 | mikhas | yes |
| 16:27.51 | lcuk | i ran the one click flasher on windows |
| 16:27.51 | dm8tbr | flasher -Owait-charging |
| 16:28.08 | dm8tbr | lcuk: get the real flasher |
| 16:28.26 | lcuk | dm8tbr, i will see what the win flasher says |
| 16:28.33 | lcuk | afaik it checks battery charge itself |
| 16:28.36 | lcuk | a mo |
| 16:29.00 | dm8tbr | let's hope it has -Owait-charging in |
| 16:29.08 | lcuk | (faster than finding latest linux version for this moment |
| 16:29.19 | lcuk | if this doesnt work i will update linux flasher |
| 16:31.39 | Tronic | lcuk: Oh, so your device is equivalent to http://www.mobile-t-mobile.com/uimg/iPhon-vs-Rock.jpg |
| 16:32.01 | dm8tbr | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php - has the harmattan flasher AFAICS |
| 16:32.16 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: sounds like kernel mismatch |
| 16:32.53 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: that's what javispedro got when trying to install "custom" kernel (actually stock kernel built locally) |
| 16:33.29 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: say "thanks aegis" - blame whatever caused it - reflash |
| 16:34.32 | lcuk | i cannot reflash since it is not registering anything over usb |
| 16:34.43 | SpeedEvil | Eeek. |
| 16:34.47 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: you may need to use the --charge (OWTTE) parameter found in new flasher, as I gather you might have an empty battery and that's prohibitive for flashing, and a device that needs reflash won't charge, evidently |
| 16:34.53 | lcuk | with the 4 screws on the back, how does the coverplate come off |
| 16:35.00 | lcuk | repeats |
| 16:35.04 | lcuk | "i cannot reflash since it is not registering anything over usb" |
| 16:35.27 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: (cover) see migrating-wikipage |
| 16:35.32 | lcuk | windows and linux are not seeing any action |
| 16:36.20 | DocScrutinizer | though it's shorter I share description that URL: pry off with fingernails starting at speaker in both directions. Will click and come off |
| 16:37.11 | DocScrutinizer | once it popped open at speaker and, "hinge" around USB and off |
| 16:38.10 | DocScrutinizer | It's really easy when you start at speaker and managed to pry your fingernail between the body and cover |
| 16:38.35 | lcuk | offers it to tracy |
| 16:38.48 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 16:39.32 | DocScrutinizer | \o/ somebody THANKED on *#-ena packet page :-DD |
| 16:40.50 | lcuk | gotcha |
| 16:40.51 | lcuk | thanks |
| 16:40.52 | lcuk | ok |
| 16:40.58 | lcuk | the back panel is all the area |
| 16:41.04 | lcuk | not just the inner rectangle |
| 16:41.12 | lcuk | the whole cover comes off as one |
| 16:41.14 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, same here :-P |
| 16:41.51 | DocScrutinizer | Downloads: 126533 Votes: 6 |
| 16:42.04 | DocScrutinizer | dang this rating system really panned out |
| 16:42.50 | DocScrutinizer | maybe a nit OT here |
| 16:43.17 | DocScrutinizer | maybe not, regarding we're about to crank up sth similr(?) for meego |
| 16:45.41 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: back cover is a bit like CD jevelcases. It took me months until I understood you *can not* open them by prying open "in the middle" as that will bend the lid and make it latch even tighter to the base |
| 16:46.25 | lcuk | yeah i did it |
| 16:46.46 | DocScrutinizer | "starting at the corner" is a good strategy for a lot of situations/problems |
| 16:47.22 | DocScrutinizer | jigsaw puzzles, jevelcases, N950 backcovers, err... |
| 16:47.47 | DocScrutinizer | some carriers :-P |
| 16:48.38 | DocScrutinizer | ooh - of course: opening the nasty tin cans of embedded device PCBA |
| 16:50.01 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia's back cover design effectively tricked me into forgetting about this general strategy and waste ~1h trying to get off the center part only |
| 16:51.06 | *** join/#harmattan leinir_ (~leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
| 16:51.48 | kimju | heh. that is a bit misleading design.. I only spend few minutes before seeking out an already disaseembled unit for a clue :) |
| 16:54.59 | dm8tbr | kimju: unfair advantage ;) |
| 16:55.01 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, |
| 16:55.06 | lcuk | plugged into wallwart |
| 16:55.14 | lcuk | and got as far as nokia water |
| 16:55.19 | lcuk | so it was battery/power related |
| 16:55.26 | lcuk | rather than aegis fud |
| 16:59.10 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 16:59.42 | RST38h | khe khe khe |
| 16:59.43 | DocScrutinizer | wallwart (original with D+- short) always best bet to recover from flatbat |
| 16:59.52 | RST38h | What package contains MeegoTouch headers? |
| 17:00.43 | cpscotti | ~logs |
| 17:00.43 | infobot | All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/%23harmattan/ Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily. |
| 17:01.12 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: :) |
| 17:01.42 | RST38h | ok, found it |
| 17:01.51 | Tronic | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:02.01 | Tronic | (just testing logging) |
| 17:04.09 | kimju | hmm.. any naming succestions for re-packaged latest meego-terminal (as the original package can not be replaced in clean way) ? |
| 17:04.29 | timoph | kimju: I have it as mg-terminal :) |
| 17:04.56 | kimju | is that already in obs? |
| 17:05.22 | kimju | or gitorious |
| 17:05.29 | timoph | it is but there I have some problems with harmattan target |
| 17:06.09 | timoph | shouldn't stop to think in the middle of sentence |
| 17:07.26 | timoph | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=meego-terminal&project=home%3Atimoph%3Aharmattan |
| 17:08.19 | kimju | "committed 25 min ago" .. no wonder I didn't see it earlier :D |
| 17:08.32 | timoph | :) |
| 17:09.26 | timoph | anyway I'm pretty sure that it won't build in obs |
| 17:11.23 | kimju | - MApplicationService("com.nokia.meego-terminal", parent) { |
| 17:11.23 | kimju | + MApplicationService("com.nokia.mg-terminal", parent) { |
| 17:11.38 | kimju | hmm.. should that com.nokia part be replaced too? |
| 17:11.55 | timoph | should but it works :) |
| 17:12.26 | kimju | is there some documentation about such things? |
| 17:12.32 | timoph | dunno |
| 17:14.33 | Tronic | Why cannot the original be replaced? |
| 17:14.41 | timoph | aegis... |
| 17:14.44 | Tronic | Sigh. |
| 17:15.09 | timoph | not coming from the same source |
| 17:15.41 | Tronic | That limitation is going to be a head ache. |
| 17:16.43 | timoph | hmmh. I wonder how c.obs signs the packages |
| 17:17.10 | timoph | meaning is it the same source when install from different home projects |
| 17:18.35 | kimju | Tronic, there are two "problems". first is that aegis won't allow replacing package installed(/available) from official source with package from other source without first forcibly uninstalling the original package. not end user friendly way. |
| 17:18.50 | timoph | kimju: anyway, feel free to take over the package. My motivation was just to check the latest status of it |
| 17:19.45 | kimju | Tronic, then there is mp-harmattan-rm680-pr package that depends on specific versions of all the core packages. foo (= x.y.z), not bar (>= x.y.z) |
| 17:21.19 | kimju | timoph, ok.. I've been experimenting with that locally for some time now, was thinking about pushing it to obs now too.. |
| 17:21.34 | timoph | ok |
| 17:22.08 | timoph | I'll remove my version of it to avoid too many forks |
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| 17:46.39 | antman8969 | the n950 browser is getting pretty bad, I can't even go to linkedin.com without it creashing |
| 17:47.04 | djszapi | port rekonq ;) |
| 17:47.56 | kimju | hmmh.. is there way to get obs do automatic versioning for deb packages as we do with rpm on n900-ce? |
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| 17:49.52 | lardman_ | realised he has been a little silly |
| 17:50.05 | djszapi | kimju: I would not like that, personally. |
| 17:50.15 | lardman_ | accidentally sending messages to the DBus system bus while watching for messages on the session bus |
| 17:50.16 | lardman_ | doh! |
| 17:51.01 | hiemanshu | djszapi: rekonq is still webkit based, and writing a basic browser is easy :P |
| 17:51.51 | djszapi | hiemanshu: what is wrong about porting rekonq ? |
| 17:52.12 | kimju | djszapi, it can be annoying in some cases, but right now I'd like to have it as an option :) |
| 17:52.17 | djszapi | iirc there has been some work in progress. |
| 17:52.41 | hiemanshu | djszapi: rekonq is still very new |
| 17:52.56 | djszapi | hiemanshu: but works cross-platform ? |
| 17:53.07 | hiemanshu | not really mature, maybe fennec would make more sense |
| 17:54.05 | djszapi | hiemanshu: Quite a few people use it on a daily basis. |
| 17:54.18 | djszapi | (also on windows) |
| 17:54.39 | hiemanshu | djszapi: I am not saying its bad, its just a little immature right now |
| 17:55.00 | hiemanshu | djszapi: also browser crashing is a very good chance its a webkit bug |
| 17:55.27 | djszapi | likes the stereotypes, like webkit or aegis bug, nothing else ! |
| 17:55.49 | antman8969 | I've built fennec for harmattan but can't get it installed |
| 17:56.12 | hiemanshu | djszapi: I like webkit, so no, I am not stereotyping it |
| 17:56.27 | antman8969 | http://umcs.maine.edu/~naddeoa/packages/fennec/harmattan/ incase anyone wants to check it out... |
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| 17:57.23 | djszapi | hiemanshu: Look, I have never used fennec on any desktop platform. I have been using rekonq for a while. It is proven, seriously. The functionality is there. Making a new Ui is well ... not that much work. |
| 17:59.42 | hiemanshu | djszapi: fennec is the codename of Firefox for mobile, so no, you cannot use it on the desktop, you can use firefox, but to port rekonq, you'll also need to port kdelibs and such |
| 18:01.25 | djszapi | hiemanshu: what do you mean by "immature" ? |
| 18:02.31 | hiemanshu | djszapi: not fully developed? |
| 18:02.52 | djszapi | what do you mean by "not fully developed" ? |
| 18:02.55 | hiemanshu | sure it can do the basic stuff, but it still needs a lot of work |
| 18:03.16 | hiemanshu | djszapi: there are quite a few nasty bug, missing features, etc |
| 18:03.22 | djszapi | if you could leave you abstraction behind the walls, and tell examples, that would help a lot... |
| 18:03.39 | djszapi | * your |
| 18:04.56 | djszapi | I personally prefer webkit for these things. |
| 18:05.57 | RST38h | mgedmin: here? |
| 18:07.15 | djszapi | kimju: I do not see such an option what you asked for after browsing the page. |
| 18:07.46 | mikhas | hmph, seems my debian packaging foo is insufficient - cannot get the app icon to show in app grid :-( |
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| 18:09.41 | mikhas | any ideas what to check? |
| 18:09.51 | kimju | mikhas, you have the package.desktop file in the package? |
| 18:10.10 | kimju | and installed in correct place |
| 18:11.03 | kimju | like ./usr/share/applications/mg-terminal.desktop |
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| 18:11.37 | djszapi | no need for package.desktop |
| 18:11.46 | djszapi | it can be different to package as well :) |
| 18:13.02 | djszapi | it is more like application.desktop |
| 18:13.57 | asys3 | anybody here can help me adding the repo http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/ - apt-get update complains about a missing Packages file. Is that repo not yet fully working? |
| 18:14.38 | djszapi | deb http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/ ./ |
| 18:15.01 | mikhas | kimju, I did |
| 18:15.13 | mikhas | but apparently meegotouch home didnt like the old fremantle fields |
| 18:15.37 | RST38h | Anyone knows package name for the neq qtquick components??? |
| 18:16.01 | RST38h | s/neq/new |
| 18:16.02 | mikhas | now I removed some X-OSSO stuff, and the icon showed up |
| 18:16.07 | mikhas | man, so much time wasted ⦠|
| 18:16.37 | asys3 | i did that! **** http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/./Packages.gz 404 Not Found |
| 18:18.47 | mikhas | asys3, RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/harmattan-dev.list |
| 18:18.47 | mikhas | deb http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/ harmattan/sdk free non-free |
| 18:19.00 | mikhas | and have you checked that you enabled internet on the device? |
| 18:19.46 | asys3 | yes, of course - the other repos of http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia/Development_repos work well |
| 18:20.05 | djszapi | mmm, the wiki page is buggy if mikhas's idea works :) |
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| 18:22.02 | mikhas | shakes fist @ meegotouch home |
| 18:23.50 | asys3 | mikhas: the sdk repo works, thanks |
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| 18:35.59 | DocScrutinizer | mikhas: this seems to be /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sdktools.lst on my device |
| 18:36.43 | DocScrutinizer | well, maybe I added it under that name, can't remember |
| 18:40.23 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: hell, I am still frightened to even do such a simple thing as ># mv /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sdktools.lst /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sdktools.list |
| 18:40.50 | DocScrutinizer | as I don't feel familiar with checking if any file is under aegis control |
| 18:41.40 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: I am pretty sure you know I am not from the SDK team ;-) |
| 18:42.23 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: I know. I'm just asking for some prodding and guidance on how to learn to deal with the issue |
| 18:43.58 | DocScrutinizer | I haven't managed yet to find out how to check if a file is "protected" |
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| 18:53.26 | DocScrutinizer | except by trying to edit/change it of course |
| 18:54.26 | DocScrutinizer | and that's a sickening situation when you got the mindset of a sysop |
| 18:55.28 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: we will not make a tool for it, it should be plain documentation for the public. |
| 18:58.31 | DocScrutinizer | I thought there *is* some tool for it, whether it's stat <filename>, or ls --wonderoption <filename>, or random-aegis-binary --list-tokens <filename>. I'm just wondering *which* tool it might be, and what exactly it looks like when a protected file gets diagnosed. I have a hard time to beleive there is NO tool at all, as you suggest by "we won't make a tool for it" |
| 18:59.39 | djszapi | I highly doubt we make, it is so simple. |
| 18:59.57 | DocScrutinizer | err sorry? |
| 19:00.04 | DocScrutinizer | you completely lost me |
| 19:02.48 | rm_you | djszapi: hey |
| 19:03.15 | rm_you | djszapi: does it look like PackRat is picking up the repos from the wiki now? |
| 19:04.30 | djszapi | rm_you: nope, it still ignores the "deb http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/ harmattan/sdk free non-free" line. |
| 19:04.39 | rm_you | AH |
| 19:04.40 | rm_you | yeah |
| 19:04.44 | rm_you | it doesn't fit the regex |
| 19:04.52 | rm_you | i DID put the regex there :P |
| 19:05.20 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: simply put (as simple as I can): if I ask "is it save to do a ># mv /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sdktools.lst /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sdktools.list ?", then the answer can NOT be "try it and when aegis bricks your device then you know it wasn't safe" - there has to be a better answer that doesn't include risking to brick |
| 19:05.27 | djszapi | regexp is from the darkside =p |
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| 19:07.43 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: but I told you it more times. Please make notes on some community page about things we are discussing next time. |
| 19:08.02 | DocScrutinizer | errr |
| 19:09.16 | DocScrutinizer | I really don't get what you are trying to tell me. Is it you don't know either and there is simply no method to work on a aegis system without permanently risking to brick it? I think I give up on getting any decent answer on this |
| 19:11.17 | DocScrutinizer | I don't know how to make notes about things that are or are not discussed any "next time" (of whatever) in the future. I got no crystal ball |
| 19:11.39 | djszapi | *sigh* |
| 19:12.02 | DocScrutinizer | and I have no idea who's "we" or what's "next time" event |
| 19:12.35 | rm_you | djszapi: also i think that line is wrong anyway |
| 19:12.53 | djszapi | rm_you: actually that worked for more people above |
| 19:12.58 | mikhas | djszapi, dark side you say? https://gitorious.org/miniature/miniature/blobs/encore/game/ficsside.cc#line28 |
| 19:13.02 | rm_you | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/ |
| 19:13.17 | rm_you | note there's "harmattan-beta" but not "harmattan-sdk" or "harmattan/sdk" |
| 19:13.41 | djszapi | 00:18 < mikhas> deb http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/ harmattan/sdk free non-free |
| 19:13.44 | djszapi | 00:23 < asys3> mikhas: the sdk repo works, thanks |
| 19:13.54 | rm_you | hrm |
| 19:13.57 | rm_you | OH |
| 19:14.00 | rm_you | yeah |
| 19:14.04 | rm_you | the sdk repos require auth |
| 19:14.10 | rm_you | which i can't do |
| 19:14.13 | rm_you | sorry |
| 19:14.15 | rm_you | not gonna show up |
| 19:14.42 | rm_you | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/dists/harmattan/sdk/ |
| 19:14.50 | rm_you | exists but requires auth |
| 19:15.00 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: http://paste.kde.org/104215/ -> I told you twice in this small conversation |
| 19:15.28 | djszapi | you should seriously document what me and others are saying, if it is not trivial.. |
| 19:15.31 | djszapi | I thought I do not need to mention it. |
| 19:16.25 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: this is gibberish to me - unless you say I mustn't edit any file in /etc/ |
| 19:16.48 | vandenoever | i seems one needs to make a youtube video to be noticed by meegoexperts ... |
| 19:17.18 | DocScrutinizer | which obviously isn't the case and also would be really bad |
| 19:17.41 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: I told you more times what is not integrity protected in the subfolders as well |
| 19:17.56 | djszapi | what is the third-party interface for upstart scripts and so forth. |
| 19:18.16 | DocScrutinizer | err uhuh, so I mustn't create /etc/myrandomdir |
| 19:18.22 | djszapi | please document these things otherwise it will be asked again and again and again, if it is not trivial. |
| 19:18.52 | DocScrutinizer | who? ME? |
| 19:19.27 | DocScrutinizer | I got NFC about those things! how could I possibly document anything else than my lack of knowledge about it? |
| 19:20.52 | djszapi | Look, there are three ways of handling the missing documentation, if any: 1) Report it to the SDK team, again /not/ me. 2) You keep documenting what people are experiencing here on a community page 3) Keep complaining. |
| 19:21.11 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: see, if you would explain *how* you attained your knowledge about those facts, I could learn and help myself out of any questionable sitation regarding aegis file protection. Stating "/etc/ is protected" doesn't help much |
| 19:22.08 | DocScrutinizer | after learning that, I'm happily going to document it on wiki |
| 19:22.08 | djszapi | forget it.. |
| 19:22.32 | mikhas | #harmattan becoming another #maemo :-) |
| 19:23.34 | DocScrutinizer | unbearable |
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| 19:28.22 | DocScrutinizer | I'm going to eventually document on wiki: "aegis is protecting arbitrary files from editing/deleting/renaming/chmod. You have no means to know if a file is protected that way. Touching such a file will possibly result in bricking and need for a reflash of complete system. That's the situation and you either deal with it or forget about harmattan, as nobody is going to do anything about it to fix this permanent threat" |
| 19:28.28 | DocScrutinizer | or maybe NOT |
| 19:28.37 | DocScrutinizer | KTNXBAI |
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| 19:30.11 | DocScrutinizer | I got other means to get my thrills, than dealing with the question "will it brick?" |
| 19:47.02 | alterego | Hrm, I'd really like a good app to create timetables. |
| 19:47.23 | alterego | I think I'm gonna sketch one out to do in qml. |
| 19:48.10 | djszapi | I would like to have an offline dictionary, like qmlstardict :p |
| 19:48.42 | alterego | Heh |
| 19:49.38 | alterego | I suppose I'd just like a more timetable friendly UI for the calendar. |
| 19:49.48 | djszapi | or kde pim :) |
| 19:49.57 | alterego | So a seperate app that integrates into the calendar would be cool. |
| 19:51.01 | dm8tbr | wonders how much 'fun' he is into if he tries to package/build python-bluez |
| 19:51.19 | alterego | I don't really care about kde pim :P |
| 19:59.55 | kimju | dm8tbr, you could forget the python and create bindings for some sane language, perl for example.. |
| 20:00.44 | dm8tbr | kimju: I have some ready python code I'd like to try for proof of concept |
| 20:01.12 | kimju | dm8tbr, oh, the mistake has been made earlier.. I see.. :) |
| 20:01.20 | dm8tbr | http://code.google.com/p/adqmisc/source/browse/trunk/liveview/LiveViewServer.py |
| 20:01.24 | dm8tbr | yes |
| 20:01.36 | dm8tbr | I usually don't go near python |
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| 20:02.33 | dm8tbr | if someone shows me how I bind to a bluetooth socket thingy with type SPP in QML or Qt I might be able to verify it too |
| 20:03.00 | dm8tbr | but I would like to start with something that is known to be working before I put work into it |
| 20:04.55 | *** join/#harmattan rm_you (~Adam@66-90-160-127.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 20:04.55 | *** join/#harmattan rm_you (~Adam@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you) |
| 20:21.50 | rm_you | excuse me for possibly missing some stuff while i got disconnected, but |
| 20:21.51 | rm_you | <kimju> dm8tbr, you could forget the python and create bindings for some sane language, perl for example.. |
| 20:22.01 | rm_you | since when is Perl the sane language compared to Python? >_> |
| 20:23.04 | RST38h | Ah! Perl vs Python! |
| 20:23.10 | RST38h | TO THE DEATH!!! |
| 20:23.16 | rm_you | :P |
| 20:23.21 | alterego | That is a battle that will never end. |
| 20:23.32 | alterego | If PERL could die it would have done it a long time ago .. |
| 20:23.43 | rm_you | lol, well kimju was obviously trolling, can't help but troll back :P |
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| 20:24.38 | kimju | oh, I was, was I? ;) |
| 20:24.56 | rm_you | trololololo |
| 20:24.57 | alterego | Besides, I'd prefer something a bit nicer than Python, tbh |
| 20:25.50 | kimju | I actually do like perl and dislike python, but will write code on either if I have to.. |
| 20:26.42 | rm_you | maintaining perl apps (including PackRat) has nearly driven me to the brink of insanity |
| 20:26.59 | rm_you | which is why your note of Perl as a "sane" language was particularly entertaining :P |
| 20:27.02 | alterego | Meh, PERL is pretty messy, and Python just isn't built right |
| 20:27.16 | RST38h | PackRat is only partially Perl |
| 20:27.22 | rm_you | yeah just the crawler |
| 20:27.27 | kimju | all programming languages suck. |
| 20:27.28 | rm_you | the php i can handle |
| 20:27.29 | RST38h | Itis mostly PHP though, and a lot of people hate PHP |
| 20:27.45 | alterego | PHP is sh*t too :D |
| 20:27.47 | rm_you | RST38h: did you write part of packrat? |
| 20:28.00 | rm_you | wait, do i have a name disconnect here |
| 20:28.01 | RST38h | for reasons I fail to understand, ranging from "php is messy"to "php is russian conspiracy" |
| 20:28.13 | rm_you | I thought FMS wrote it |
| 20:28.27 | RST38h | looks at rm_you incredulously |
| 20:28.33 | rm_you | are you FMS?! |
| 20:28.34 | RST38h | And I am...? |
| 20:28.44 | rm_you | i never made that connection :P |
| 20:29.14 | rm_you | i remember meeting you at CBase i think |
| 20:29.24 | RST38h | even after I gave you the source code on irc and asked to put it to a good server? =) |
| 20:29.29 | RST38h | Yep |
| 20:29.33 | rm_you | lol well, that was a long time ago |
| 20:29.34 | kimju | RST38h, my take is that php is hated because there has been too many "my first program"-type programs written in php released into the wild.. and then sysadmins have to Deal With Them.. |
| 20:30.00 | rm_you | RST38h: any interest in fixing it to work with harmattan now? |
| 20:30.07 | rm_you | you'd cry if you saw the crawler in its current state |
| 20:30.18 | rm_you | the hacks i had to do to get it working... |
| 20:32.22 | RST38h | rm_you: see? you broke it! =) |
| 20:32.30 | RST38h | rm_you: yes, I can try fixing it up |
| 20:32.30 | rm_you | lol |
| 20:32.42 | RST38h | rm_you: email me the current source code |
| 20:32.47 | rm_you | you prolly just want to ignore my changes and start from your clean source honestly |
| 20:33.10 | RST38h | rm_you: can't say right nnow - I usually keep the code if it is not too badly broken |
| 20:33.15 | rm_you | like i seriously just disabled 75% of the generic stuff |
| 20:33.28 | Tronic | Meanwhile the REAL CODERS are fighting Perl (Ruby) vs. Python, all the web services get implemented in PHP. |
| 20:33.29 | mikhas | alterego, you sound as if you want Vala. |
| 20:33.30 | rm_you | and hardcoded things here and there in several functions |
| 20:33.47 | rm_you | I like PHP and Python about equally :P |
| 20:33.58 | alterego | mikhas: Heh, Vala isn't dynamic enough for me :P |
| 20:34.09 | rm_you | I was tempted to rewrite the whole crawler thing in python |
| 20:34.10 | mikhas | aww |
| 20:34.13 | alterego | If we're talking about dynamic languages. |
| 20:34.16 | mikhas | alterego, tried Smalltalk? |
| 20:34.26 | mikhas | very clean because its syntax is so minimal |
| 20:34.28 | alterego | I have tried Smalltalk, I do like it |
| 20:34.36 | mikhas | hooray! |
| 20:34.53 | Tronic | Speaking of webapps, you can get most done in least time with C++ but it lacks the rapid turnaround. |
| 20:34.57 | alterego | I also mostly like Ruby, which I tend to use when I need to do certain things. |
| 20:35.05 | mikhas | and instead of this Python "Everything is an object" lie, everything but variables *are* objects in ST :-) |
| 20:35.22 | alterego | mikhas: sure, like Ruby :) |
| 20:35.32 | alterego | It's the pure object orientation I like about small talk and ruby |
| 20:35.38 | mikhas | yeah |
| 20:36.09 | alterego | Pythons' idea of OO is somewhat retarded. |
| 20:36.16 | mikhas | :-D |
| 20:36.28 | mikhas | it just doesnt feel right, does it? |
| 20:36.36 | rm_you | I wrote a few things in both ruby and python to compare the languages a while back, and i couldn't even tell the difference between the two languages besides minor differences in the keywords / punctuation |
| 20:36.47 | alterego | No, not really. Though I don't mind using it, it's just not OO to me. |
| 20:37.04 | mikhas | rm_you, the fun comes with advanced OO techniques |
| 20:37.11 | alterego | rm_you: then you didn't really get into the fun stuff ;) |
| 20:37.18 | rm_you | lol |
| 20:37.35 | rm_you | did basic inheritence and polymorphism... |
| 20:37.56 | alterego | Yeah, the cool stuff is metaprogramming, mixins, introspection and all that jazz :) |
| 20:38.05 | mikhas | eww, he said inheritance! |
| 20:38.10 | rm_you | introspection seems cool |
| 20:38.14 | mikhas | alterego, traits |
| 20:38.16 | rm_you | never implemented it |
| 20:38.27 | alterego | mikhas: duck typing :P |
| 20:38.27 | mikhas | or a DB layer that creates methods on the fly |
| 20:38.49 | rm_you | factory methods? |
| 20:38.50 | alterego | I use ActiveRecord quite a bit in Ruby, it's a really good ORM |
| 20:38.54 | alterego | Very fun |
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| 20:39.00 | mikhas | (depending on the messages the object receives, it persists and *creates* the DB structure for you in the back) |
| 20:39.47 | alterego | mikhas: have you used the ActiveRDF stuff? |
| 20:39.53 | mikhas | nope |
| 20:40.00 | alterego | I did some really fun stuff with Ruby and RDF .. |
| 20:40.18 | alterego | I settled on Redland though in the end. |
| 20:40.34 | rm_you | RST38h: lol something about your website makes my monitor generate horrible noises |
| 20:40.42 | rm_you | the colors |
| 20:40.51 | alterego | Heh |
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| 20:41.38 | alterego | Anyhow, time to go :) bbl |
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| 21:04.59 | Kypeli | Cool |
| 21:05.42 | Kypeli | Has someone else noticed some rough edges in Harmattan Qt Components? :) |
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| 21:23.46 | rcg | rough edges? |
| 21:24.36 | mikhas | the packaging is weird |
| 21:25.00 | mikhas | You cannot use Qt Quick Components on your desktop or in Qt designer it seems. |
| 21:25.17 | mikhas | So you need to test on the device all the time. |
| 21:26.01 | mikhas | Kypeli, http://www.developer.nokia.com/dp?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fsw.nokia.com%2Fid%2Ff3013263-1fbc-4cae-9f01-b4aa8e702eb4%2FQt_SDK_Harmattan_Target_Release_Notes |
| 21:26.10 | mikhas | mentions some of the rough edges |
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| 21:27.31 | Kypeli | mikhas: Well, my observations were not mentioned. |
| 21:28.23 | Kypeli | rcg: I've noticed, just as a few examples, that Label does not support elide and TextInput does not resize it's width in a Sheet component (but it does in a Page) and InfoBanner is not available for 3rd party developers. |
| 21:28.36 | Kypeli | After that, I got tired of fighting. |
| 21:29.18 | rcg | hmm ic |
| 21:31.13 | rcg | well... if these are "edges" then i just stumbled across some rusty bed of nails while messing with the "stable" qt version for fremantle.. but thats just a side note |
| 21:31.33 | Kypeli | Heh |
| 21:36.16 | mikhas | on the other hand, LMT has eliding, text edits adjust and even layouts that can auto-switch for you between landscape and portrait mode |
| 21:36.27 | mikhas | =p |
| 21:36.39 | mikhas | just write a component that wraps MLabel? |
| 21:36.55 | Kypeli | MTF is deprecated :P ;) |
| 21:36.58 | mikhas | (I know, am being naive at this time of day) |
| 21:37.02 | Kypeli | :) |
| 21:37.20 | Kypeli | And, let me just say for the record, that MList looks awesome compared to ListView in Qt Components |
| 21:37.31 | mikhas | deprecated by the same guys who now have to do windows programming |
| 21:38.02 | Kypeli | I hope they enjoy it ... or not. |
| 21:38.11 | mikhas | :-) |
| 21:38.49 | mikhas | Well, QML UI's are easier to do, I'll admit that. But that doesn't mean LMT is useless. |
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| 21:39.09 | kimju | hmm.. qmake generates Makefile.Release, that has following in build target: "-$(DEL_FILE) ../$(TARGET)" "-$(MOVE) $(TARGET) ../" but distclean target only cleans: "-$(DEL_FILE) $(TARGET)" |
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| 21:39.24 | mikhas | (And even though I hate so many aspects of LMT, I hate even more to sell developers a lie and throw stuff away just like that.) |
| 21:39.34 | Kypeli | I would have hoped that at this point the Qt Components would have wrapped all the UI classes MTF had/native apps use |
| 21:39.42 | Kypeli | This unfortunately doesn't seem to be the case |
| 21:39.45 | kimju | where does it get template for that makefile / how do I override it so that distclean removes the ../$(TARGET) too? |
| 21:39.53 | mikhas | well, Qt Components shifted direction after feb 11 |
| 21:40.04 | mikhas | before, the idea really was to wrap LMT widgets |
| 21:40.35 | Kypeli | Whatever now is shoveled down developer's throats is very confusing and half-baked. |
| 21:40.49 | mikhas | now it's about staying somewhat relevant, somewhere, and that doesn't fly with a LMT dependency |
| 21:41.20 | Kypeli | I see |
| 21:41.36 | mikhas | It's not optimal. |
| 21:44.04 | kimju | meh. https://bugreports.qt.nokia.com//browse/QTBUG-3883 |
| 21:44.15 | kimju | bug created more than two years ago, still open. |
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| 21:49.27 | mikhas | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:49.44 | mikhas | doesnt look too difficult |
| 21:50.03 | kimju | I'm trying to hunt down where those templates are stored.. |
| 21:50.25 | mikhas | templates, as in prf files? |
| 21:50.36 | mikhas | and makespec's? |
| 21:51.10 | mikhas | there is /usr/share/qt4/mkspecs/features and /usr/share/qt4/mkspecs |
| 21:51.11 | kimju | note: I'm using qmake for first time, not familiar with it. |
| 21:51.15 | mikhas | ok |
| 21:51.33 | mikhas | prf files go to features, and can be compared to pkg-config, somewhat |
| 21:51.45 | mikhas | to pgk-config's pc files, I mean |
| 22:30.01 | seif | HMMMMMM |
| 22:30.12 | seif | any ideas when the next image for meego harmattan is coming out |
| 22:31.06 | mikhas | no, sadly not |
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| 22:54.32 | kimju | hmmh. the problematic default seems to be within the qmake binary, not in .prf files. adding this to .pro works around the problem: QMAKE_DISTCLEAN += ${DESTDIR}/${TARGET} |
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| 23:12.00 | kimju | just looking at the source, my guess is that https://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/blobs/4.7/qmake/generators/unix/unixmake2.cpp#line905 should have << destdir << like lines 900, 902 & 903. Not going to recompile qt and test though.. |
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| 23:57.08 | Tronic | http://nokiagadgets.com/2011/07/31/elop-talks-more-about-harmattan-future/ |
