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| 00:21.23 | GeneralAntilles | Whoever decided sites should be allowed to muck with your clipboard should be shot. |
| 00:31.50 | berndhs | GeneralAntilles: so should the guy who wrote the parser for the debian changelog |
| 00:32.05 | GeneralAntilles | Death to the incompetent and irresponsible! |
| 00:32.18 | berndhs | but perhaps he's dead already, and they can't fix it now |
| 00:37.59 | SpeedEvil | Dig him up, and shoot him. |
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| 03:36.33 | DocScrutinizer | shoot the developers of D-Link router as well. Schedule for WAN active: 23:02 - 23:00 ->> ERROR: end time has to be later than start time KTNXBY |
| 03:39.26 | DocScrutinizer | I can't shit down my DSL for one minute a day, except between 23:59 and 24:00, or from 00:00 til 00:01 |
| 03:39.44 | DocScrutinizer | poor fools |
| 03:39.51 | DocScrutinizer | shut down* |
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| 04:50.27 | djszapi | http://www.nokia.com.au/find-products/all-phones/nokia-n9 -> No mentioning on price yet |
| 04:53.51 | djszapi | http://www.nokia.com.my/find-product/all-phones/nokia-n9/check-availability -> hehe, the price was deleted |
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| 05:25.20 | djszapi | MohammadAG: do you still have MTF question ? |
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| 06:51.00 | artem | hey, wasn't n9 supposed to be in sales in Kazakhstan on Sep 9? I wonder if it happened already |
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| 07:18.26 | meegoexperts | artem : Good question |
| 07:18.35 | meegoexperts | I've just tweeted asking :-) |
| 07:27.02 | djszapi | hi meegoexperts o/ |
| 07:27.28 | meegoexperts | HI !!!!!! |
| 07:27.49 | djszapi | come to Oulu, meego conference ? |
| 07:27.58 | Stskeeps | morn meegoexperts |
| 07:28.12 | meegoexperts | olu meegoconference got cancelled 3 months ago |
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| 07:28.22 | Stskeeps | yes |
| 07:28.33 | meegoexperts | morning stskeeps + all |
| 07:28.35 | djszapi | meegoexperts: nope, I have just asked the organizer here. |
| 07:28.54 | djszapi | https://meego.com/community/events/2011/2nd-finnish-russian-mobile-linux-summit |
| 07:29.06 | meegoexperts | The person who was organising it last time has got a new job now so ..... |
| 07:30.23 | djszapi | interesting, one of the Russian meego community "leader" here is telling that it is not cancelled at all. |
| 07:31.58 | meegoexperts | I know someone in that organisation, I'll send them an email |
| 07:32.41 | djszapi | http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Marketing/Meego_Summit_Oulu |
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| 07:33.05 | djszapi | but I think the organization and announcement actually happened after this, so probably it was reorganized with a different date after all |
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| 07:33.38 | djszapi | yes. that is the case, check the date: 2011-06-01/05-30 |
| 07:33.48 | djszapi | and we are not speaking about october, not may/june :p |
| 07:33.52 | djszapi | now* |
| 07:34.31 | meegoexperts | Different events |
| 07:34.37 | djszapi | yes, exactly. |
| 07:34.56 | meegoexperts | Why do you casue so much confusion where ever you go ? :-P |
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| 07:35.36 | djszapi | I am going, no confusion, really ;> |
| 07:35.42 | djszapi | http://www.expert.fi/Puhelimet.aspx?manufacturerid=6&gclid=COG1oIaWl6sCFQcntAodVQP5tA -> N9 for 50 EUR :p |
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| 07:36.52 | sandst1 | djszapi: almost :P http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fi&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fexpert.fi%2FTuotteet%2FPuhelimet-ja-GPS%2FPuhelimet%2FNokia---N9-16GB%2C-Musta |
| 07:38.01 | djszapi | I think the 299 EUR was fake sinec it was being removed after my asking from them :p |
| 07:38.22 | djszapi | sandst1: thanks for the link :p |
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| 07:40.15 | hiemanshu | we need to have a meego conf in India |
| 07:40.21 | sandst1 | djszapi: np :) |
| 07:41.13 | djszapi | sandst1 cme to Oulu ? |
| 07:44.06 | hiemanshu | Oulu, where is that? |
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| 07:44.36 | hiemanshu | oh .fi |
| 07:44.51 | djszapi | close to the Santa Clause :) |
| 07:51.01 | sandst1 | djszapi: no.. got calendar full already :) |
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| 08:08.10 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
| 08:08.17 | Jaffa | fiferboy: Ta for the editing |
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| 08:23.28 | djszapi | hi fiferboy :) |
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| 08:33.04 | kkito | morning |
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| 09:27.25 | artemm | I figured that qg-conf is not included in SDK |
| 09:27.36 | artemm | question is whether it should be included |
| 09:28.25 | artemm | I solved my personal issue (GConf communication) via MGConfItem, but as a (semi-)good guy I don't mind reporting a problem if it is indeed a problem |
| 09:28.55 | djszapi | we do not include that in the next version. |
| 09:29.16 | artemm | do not include MGConfItem or qg-conf? |
| 09:29.34 | djszapi | second, but as far as I can see there is no such a package either. Probably it is a binary I am not aware of. |
| 09:30.14 | artemm | somebody told me there's "missing -dev package for qg-conf" |
| 09:31.14 | djszapi | please tell the package name, not the binary. I have never seen this, not even on desktop ever. |
| 09:31.30 | djszapi | so I would doubt it is the target of the SDK scope. |
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| 10:10.34 | gri | Has anyone succeeded in using the "notificationexample" on the n9(50)? I would be interested if it works for someone on the n950 and/or the n9 |
| 10:10.50 | gri | notificationexample for push services |
| 10:11.11 | djszapi | I can test it for you if you give me copy/paste steps. |
| 10:11.27 | gri | https://projects.developer.nokia.com/notificationsapi/discussion/topic/59 |
| 10:11.38 | gri | download and run the example program on your phone |
| 10:11.49 | gri | you may change the environment to sandbox |
| 10:19.49 | gri | When I click "Register" on my phone, I only see "Application is connecting" but it never connects |
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| 11:20.23 | DocScrutinizer | >> Hi Have you received the N950 device? Thank you, DAS Joan Bon<< Is Nokia sending out spam now to check if their database is ok, or is that just me who got that mail as maybe sth went wrong with my immediate answer back when? |
| 11:25.38 | SpeedEvil | I got a ping from quim as I hadn't moved my entry to the right place in the wiki |
| 11:29.01 | artemm | hey, if N9 is promised for Kazakhstan for Sep 9, Switzerland for Sep 15 and many countries for Sep 23, it means that refresh of N950 firmware is around the corner, right? |
| 11:29.13 | artemm | I would particularly appreciate better battery life |
| 11:29.26 | MohammadAG | isn't it 12 September? |
| 11:29.31 | MohammadAG | better battery life? |
| 11:29.33 | MohammadAG | this thing is awesome |
| 11:29.54 | MohammadAG | had 29% battery in the morning and used it for 5 hours |
| 11:30.22 | artemm | in my case, I am not always sure it will stand a party night |
| 11:30.26 | lcuk | MohammadAG, depends what you do |
| 11:30.31 | lcuk | have you got your sim in it? |
| 11:30.32 | artemm | just from afternoon to back home |
| 11:30.52 | MohammadAG | lcuk, yes |
| 11:30.56 | MohammadAG | it's my primary phone |
| 11:31.02 | artemm | actually that's a primary reason why I still use Symbian primarily |
| 11:31.08 | artemm | secondary reason is Gravity |
| 11:31.58 | deimos | artemm: because hard floors ? :) |
| 11:32.01 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, will you fly away without a second phone to ground you? |
| 11:32.28 | artemm | deimos: exactly :) |
| 11:33.18 | jreznik | looks like N9 is already out for big customers - as my friend already has a few and looking for problems solution |
| 11:34.06 | djszapi | artemm: disconnecting mobile internet and irc-chatter helps a lot :) |
| 11:34.06 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: well, this ping is directly from Nokia, Joan Bondi who managed my N950 shipping, and I answers "it's here, thanks for fast handling" the day I opened the package |
| 11:34.11 | RST38h | And we are still stuck on the outdated firmware =( |
| 11:35.16 | DocScrutinizer | so I wonder how nokia DAS came to ask about it 8 weeks after shipping |
| 11:35.23 | MohammadAG | why is there an AT&T squircle in the theme |
| 11:35.33 | artemm | djszapi: I believe so, then the question is why do you need a bulky phone if it can't do mobile internet :) |
| 11:35.34 | jreznik | RST38h: she confirmed that they already have N9s for theirs management :) she's wondering how to copy text from webbrowser, is it possible? |
| 11:35.41 | RST38h | They intended to release it on AT&T in the US? |
| 11:35.58 | RST38h | jreznik: Ctrl+C =) |
| 11:36.06 | jreznik | artemm: that why I had Mugen Power Battery on my N900 - I miss it |
| 11:36.08 | RST38h | laughs diabolically |
| 11:36.14 | djszapi | artemm: you do not need to have mobile internet all the time. We are just laizy to turn it off, but after doing, it saves a lot |
| 11:36.14 | MohammadAG | icon-m-bootloader-warning.png should be trollface.jpg tbh |
| 11:36.18 | artemm | w00t? Nokia changed hits mind? I was sure @selop is working hard on making sure N9 is *not* a success |
| 11:36.24 | artemm | *changed its mind |
| 11:36.39 | RST38h | Mohammad: Why not go directly for tubgirl.jpg? |
| 11:37.04 | artemm | djszapi: I just keep facebook/mail updates in background and check them once in a while. Even no twitter use (as it's not present in current N950 FW) |
| 11:37.08 | Arkenoi | is there a way to merge a person i follow in twitter with a contact card if it did not happen automatically? |
| 11:37.21 | artemm | Arkenoi: there is manual merge option |
| 11:37.29 | artemm | somewhere in the phonebook toolbar |
| 11:37.34 | Arkenoi | artemm, don't see it for twitter |
| 11:37.37 | djszapi | artemm: yes you can do that by reconnecting, really saves a /very/ lot. |
| 11:37.53 | Arkenoi | persons i follow in twitter are not shown in the phonebook |
| 11:37.59 | Arkenoi | just those found by email |
| 11:38.01 | djszapi | that is how I spare with battery when I do not have laptop with me (ie.: I cannot charge it on the waY) |
| 11:38.06 | MohammadAG | there's a Windows Live Messenger icon too |
| 11:38.07 | artemm | Arkenoi, beware that you cannot unmerge it though. Merging contacts in harmattan can dangerous if you've got no backup |
| 11:38.10 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: sorry wrong. *having* Mobile internet isn't eating much power really. It's data traffic that makes TX operate and cut thru battery |
| 11:38.28 | Arkenoi | artemm, there is unmerge button somewhere? |
| 11:38.45 | artemm | Arkenoi: to my understanding unmerging feature isn't even planned |
| 11:39.03 | djszapi | artemm: so for me, net and chatter killed my battery after 3-4 hours maximum, without that...it is quite fine here. |
| 11:39.07 | artemm | probably a good candidate for some 3rd party app :) |
| 11:39.44 | Arkenoi | n950 with gtalk and sip enabled provides (from my personal impression) just about 50% battery life advantage compared to n900. The thing that matters, though, is battery saving mode, it is very useful! |
| 11:39.44 | artemm | djszapi: manual connection/disconnection in 2011..? Yeah, but using my Symbian phone is simpler |
| 11:40.21 | djszapi | artemm: yes, that is the only workaround for people having this phone. |
| 11:40.25 | hiemanshu | what, is there a new FW? |
| 11:40.45 | *** part/#harmattan maxw (~davidmaxw@194.136.86.45) |
| 11:41.08 | MohammadAG | I can't find that squircle mask frals's been talking about :P |
| 11:41.30 | DocScrutinizer | artemm: you usually do *not* disconnect from GPRS APN ever |
| 11:41.32 | djszapi | artemm: luckily I could get rid of my symbian phone few years ago |
| 11:41.41 | SpeedEvil | Arkenoi: battery saving mode? |
| 11:41.50 | DocScrutinizer | artemm: you stop causing traffic and that's it |
| 11:41.58 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, Settings -> Device -> Battery -> Automatic |
| 11:42.02 | MohammadAG | I have it set to 50% |
| 11:42.18 | MohammadAG | it detects when there's no traffic, and kills the connection |
| 11:42.27 | MohammadAG | if you're using IRC a lot, disable it |
| 11:42.29 | Arkenoi | SpeedEvil, yep. it is quite smart: sync works more or less, so you get your email in time yet saving battery |
| 11:43.02 | DocScrutinizer | WUT? |
| 11:43.04 | Arkenoi | btw on n900 3g idle (connection up but no data transfer) was a huge battery drain anyways |
| 11:43.08 | Arkenoi | for n950 it is not |
| 11:43.15 | hiemanshu | pulling emails sucks, Push is so much better with regards to email, thats why the batteries on the BB rock |
| 11:43.24 | MohammadAG | push works fine on the N950 |
| 11:43.30 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: that makes no sense what you mentioned. |
| 11:43.32 | hiemanshu | no it doesn't |
| 11:43.33 | Arkenoi | hiemanshu, requires some kind of operator support |
| 11:43.38 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: uhuh |
| 11:43.51 | MohammadAG | hiemanshu, yes, it does |
| 11:43.52 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: makes no sense TO YOU |
| 11:43.57 | djszapi | I will not turn off all the internet relevant applications per se and forget some online. way muuuuuuch easier to turn off the internet |
| 11:44.04 | hiemanshu | MohammadAG: it only works with MfE |
| 11:44.07 | hiemanshu | nothing else |
| 11:44.23 | djszapi | since I do not need it anyways, if I do not use it, that is |
| 11:44.39 | artemm | MohammadAG: Thanks for the advice! I'll try Automatic with some high value |
| 11:44.54 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: yeah, too bad if you got all broken apps on harmattan that hog data traffic all the time for no good reason |
| 11:44.56 | MohammadAG | hiemanshu, hmm, you're right, gmail says refreshed 6 hours ago |
| 11:45.05 | MohammadAG | MfE's in sync |
| 11:45.21 | artemm | DocScrutinizer: you mean such broken as MfE and built-in facebook client? :) |
| 11:45.32 | DocScrutinizer | nfc |
| 11:45.47 | DocScrutinizer | you think I'd even touch such nonsense? |
| 11:45.49 | SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: ah - that |
| 11:45.50 | Arkenoi | what thing i miss is xmpp and, surprisingly, skype |
| 11:45.58 | MohammadAG | built in facebook client's borked tbh |
| 11:46.00 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: I know you like whining applications, but the things is that disconnecting from internet that you do not need anyways is way muuuch better than disconnecting, irc-chatter, mail, account, messages, what not (everything net based where there can be some traffic happening continously) |
| 11:46.06 | MohammadAG | that's why I'm working on sociality |
| 11:46.13 | Arkenoi | i never used it for personal communications but many people use it here at work |
| 11:46.15 | djszapi | *better = easier. |
| 11:46.25 | DocScrutinizer | BS |
| 11:46.35 | MohammadAG | Arkenoi, find a way to get kill aegis completely, and you have skype |
| 11:46.43 | MohammadAG | it blocks the new skyhost for me |
| 11:46.52 | Arkenoi | MohammadAG, there is skype for n9 on screenshots, right? |
| 11:47.18 | MohammadAG | Arkenoi, http://i54.tinypic.com/2m85gsw.jpg |
| 11:47.18 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 11:47.23 | MohammadAG | that |
| 11:47.34 | MohammadAG | 's my N950, and of course, he left after saying kill aegis |
| 11:47.38 | hiemanshu | MohammadAG: can I haz skype? |
| 11:47.50 | MohammadAG | no, you can't :) |
| 11:47.53 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: I wonder which fool did system design for harmattan. On fremantle there's been no faintest doubt about how things are supposed to work, and they actually worked except for fools writing apps that did polling for no reason |
| 11:48.16 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: he left :P |
| 11:48.18 | DocScrutinizer | and honestly I doubt you know anything for sure about me |
| 11:48.25 | DocScrutinizer | good |
| 11:52.13 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 11:53.23 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: yes, I know harmattan developers are fool for you. I really appreciate it. |
| 11:53.31 | djszapi | probably they do as well. |
| 11:57.11 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: somebody suggesting to make it a standard system architecture concept tear down GPRS when battery is <50% for sure is braindamaged. This worked on fremantle like a charm without such BS, and everybody with a bit of brain left over can clearly see there's no use in shutting down connectivity globally as a replacement for properly implemented power saving aware apps |
| 11:57.38 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, it's configurable |
| 11:57.51 | DocScrutinizer | yah, form 10% to 50% |
| 11:57.59 | MohammadAG | and off |
| 11:58.18 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: unfortunately, this is not a code of conduct, put let me find you something from a different community: |
| 11:58.27 | DocScrutinizer | or did you suggest you can configure *PER APP* the battery level where the app can't connect anymore? |
| 11:58.37 | MohammadAG | it can connect |
| 11:58.49 | djszapi | http://www.kde.org/code-of-conduct/ -> Be respectful part. |
| 11:59.20 | DocScrutinizer | sorry I'm never respectful when I step into dog shit |
| 12:01.34 | DocScrutinizer | hell I can have weather applet and mail and one update a day *AND IRC* on 10some channels running on my N900 and still it more often than not reaches the 24h deadline |
| 12:02.19 | artemm | well, it would be cool if system could protect against stupid app writers, but how would it know if app actually needs to send lots of traffic or not |
| 12:02.19 | hiemanshu | 0_0 |
| 12:03.39 | DocScrutinizer | artemm: from QA? from testing the app? and what the hell is it worth to run an app that can't work as it wants to as it can't do the (maybe idiotic) data traffic? |
| 12:04.07 | artemm | DocScrutinizer: problem is you can hardly be sure who exactly eats the battery |
| 12:04.36 | artemm | got a new phone, activated facebook, mail, etc, installed several cool apps and battery dies in a few hours. Who's guilty? |
| 12:04.57 | DocScrutinizer | batery saving mode is useful for exactly only one purpose (and it shows it's meant for that as you can't crank threshold up to more than 50%): keep an emergency capacity amount for mere phone functionality |
| 12:05.59 | DocScrutinizer | artemm: ther ARE methods to find the culprit, and shutting down internet for *all* apps is about the most stupid approach to tackle such problems |
| 12:06.05 | *** join/#harmattan frinring (~kossebau@85.183.48.167) |
| 12:06.34 | artemm | Hmm, actually it would be cool to provide this kind of power/net usage monitor usable by the end user |
| 12:06.49 | djszapi | please tell me better approach einstein.. |
| 12:06.55 | artemm | Maybe even from settings/battery applet |
| 12:07.13 | djszapi | (which is currently existing on the gadget out there) |
| 12:08.14 | artemm | the real killer approach is certainly to optimize HW/FW - Symbian phones with smaller batteries and same amount of updates somehow manage to have 2-3 times longer batter life :) |
| 12:09.22 | deimos | the best way is to fix the battery icon to full state :) |
| 12:11.09 | djszapi | artemm: I was using the phone for hotspot, and t was advisable to use usb charging all the time for that :p |
| 12:11.41 | artemm | oh, that's totally different. WiFi hotspotting uses adhoc wifi in the phones |
| 12:11.49 | artemm | there's no or almost no power saving |
| 12:11.56 | artemm | nobody intended it to be used for long time |
| 12:12.16 | djszapi | well, I used it for months : |
| 12:12.17 | djszapi | :) |
| 12:15.40 | DocScrutinizer | anyway: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption >> 3G connected, good signal, no data or other activity +8 mA. // 2G connected, good signal, no data or other activity +5 mA<< |
| 12:15.57 | djszapi | as for me, it is completely acceptable to turn the internet off, if I do not wanna use the internet. |
| 12:15.59 | Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer, not just that. it still syncs email more or less frequently |
| 12:16.11 | DocScrutinizer | so fix the friggin email! |
| 12:16.25 | DocScrutinizer | or kill it |
| 12:16.42 | DocScrutinizer | what's the use of running email and then going OFFLINE??? |
| 12:17.16 | djszapi | why would I run email, if I do not wanna use email? Fail to see the logic. |
| 12:17.43 | RST38h | Doc: What is this heated discussion about, again? |
| 12:19.11 | *** join/#harmattan lizardo (~lizardo@189.2.128.130) |
| 12:19.18 | DocScrutinizer | about the best and only way to make apps that hog data traffic behave was allegedly going offline, so GPRS won't hog battery |
| 12:19.58 | DocScrutinizer | better to kill the hog process than go offline, every day |
| 12:20.38 | RST38h | Why not set GPRS to "connect on request" and "disconnect after n seconds"? |
| 12:20.43 | DocScrutinizer | s/kill/nuke off this globe/ |
| 12:20.43 | MohammadAG | <djszapi> why would I run email, if I do not wanna use email? Fail to see the logic. |
| 12:20.45 | RST38h | That will do it for email, no? |
| 12:20.49 | MohammadAG | to get notifications about new emails :P |
| 12:21.09 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: beacuse^^^ |
| 12:21.15 | DocScrutinizer | anyway: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption >> 3G connected, good signal, no data or other activity +8 mA. // 2G connected, good signal, no data or other activity +5 mA<< |
| 12:21.49 | DocScrutinizer | it's a virtual nuttin it takes to stay online |
| 12:21.55 | *** join/#harmattan mece (~mece@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-44.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:21.59 | djszapi | MohammadAG: yes, but the point is that, that is not a universal case |
| 12:22.15 | DocScrutinizer | probably frequent sign in eats more battery than staying online |
| 12:22.17 | mece | hey, quick question, does anyone know what kind of support for chinese the N9 has? |
| 12:22.23 | djszapi | MohammadAG: sometimes people tend to check the email out when they have time. They cannot be called "fool" for that as aforementioned. |
| 12:22.34 | *** join/#harmattan seif (~seiflotfy@ip-95-222-192-86.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 12:23.12 | djszapi | or "braindamaged". |
| 12:23.39 | DocScrutinizer | ooh mr djszapi starts his best discipline again: chnaging meaning of words |
| 12:23.45 | djszapi | and "most stupid". |
| 12:24.15 | DocScrutinizer | reading statements the way he likes |
| 12:24.59 | *** join/#harmattan hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 12:25.32 | MohammadAG | djszapi, DocScrutinizer shall we end this? |
| 12:25.50 | DocScrutinizer | I'm temped to end this for good, yeah |
| 12:27.30 | MohammadAG | can someone with an N9 post the output of ls - /usr/lib/skyhost/socket |
| 12:27.37 | MohammadAG | can someone with an N9 post the output of ls -l /usr/lib/skyhost/socket |
| 12:27.47 | DocScrutinizer | is away, connecting his DSL cale to PC so the email prog that was waiting all the time finally can check for mail. Then I'll pull the cable again so the mail prog doesn't eat my battery for nothing |
| 12:28.01 | DocScrutinizer | cable* |
| 12:28.12 | djszapi | MohammadAG: please do it on the RDA device, otherwise it is illegal |
| 12:28.14 | djszapi | NDA |
| 12:28.43 | MohammadAG | djszapi, out of curiosity, what would that be in the NDA? |
| 12:28.52 | MohammadAG | I've only seen the N950 NDA, and that seems... standard |
| 12:29.49 | djszapi | I do not think it is any special. It is just simply that, nobody can provide any detail about a product, software, service under NDA. |
| 12:30.35 | *** join/#harmattan berndhs (~berndhs@2604:8800:11b:1:21e:90ff:fe8f:8bee) |
| 12:33.31 | RST38h | djszapi: I suggest you leave NDA compliance to the person who signed that NDA. |
| 12:34.08 | RST38h | Because, as you might have guessed, each NDA contains its own terms, which you agree to comply with. |
| 12:34.30 | djszapi | that would be funny :D |
| 12:34.40 | djszapi | but at any rate, let us ask qgil about it then...whether it is ok |
| 12:35.03 | dm8tbr | points out the second part of the topic and goes back to work |
| 12:35.03 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: is that just me...? |
| 12:35.04 | RST38h | By all means, of course. |
| 12:35.17 | RST38h | Doc: No, not just you. Actually, more people thank you think. |
| 12:35.17 | Stskeeps | doesn't a NDA typically say you can't say you have an NDA? |
| 12:35.28 | djszapi | ok, mail sent to qgil. |
| 12:35.28 | RST38h | Stskeeps: Some do (Google's for example) |
| 12:35.46 | MohammadAG | RST38h, how do you know? :P |
| 12:35.48 | RST38h | Stskeeps: Intel's does not, at least the one I signed |
| 12:36.04 | Stskeeps | i can say it because a nokian outed me on having one in order to do some work |
| 12:36.05 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 12:36.31 | MohammadAG | <Stskeeps> doesn't a NDA typically say you can't say you have an NDA? |
| 12:36.37 | Stskeeps | yeah.. |
| 12:36.38 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 12:36.39 | berndhs | I wonder how that works in court if you're asked under oath, "did you sign and NDA with Google" |
| 12:36.48 | MohammadAG | is the NDA that covers that NDA under an NDA? |
| 12:36.59 | MohammadAG | otherwise, I don't see why one can't they have an NDA for an NDA :p |
| 12:37.02 | RST38h | waits for inevitable stack overflow |
| 12:37.06 | Stskeeps | MohammadAG: NDA() { return NDA() } |
| 12:37.06 | Tronic | I highly doubt the legality of a clause that says you cannot tell that you have an NDA. |
| 12:37.11 | DocScrutinizer | answer of Quim: "yes I confirm an NDA actually only applies to the person who signed it" |
| 12:37.25 | MohammadAG | blinks his caps LED |
| 12:37.49 | Stskeeps | silly things |
| 12:37.51 | berndhs | well who else would the NDA apply to ? |
| 12:37.59 | djszapi | Tronic: agree, that would be rather weird. |
| 12:38.20 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: nope, I've *never* ever seen such an NDA, except in James Bond films |
| 12:38.45 | MohammadAG | Apple NDAs, You may not show the iPhone 4 to anyone, but you may forget it in a bar |
| 12:38.46 | djszapi | yeah sure Nokia applies different NDA to people about what they can share with others in the same project :D :D :D |
| 12:38.53 | djszapi | would make soooooo much sense |
| 12:39.00 | djszapi | just certain people cannot talk :D :D :D |
| 12:39.07 | RST38h | sighs |
| 12:39.14 | MohammadAG | I want an N9 |
| 12:39.21 | DocScrutinizer | obviously certain people can not read |
| 12:39.22 | RST38h | some people talk too much |
| 12:39.28 | dm8tbr | renames the channel to #nda |
| 12:39.35 | Tronic | doesn't whether the swap the N950 for an N9 if offered the choice. |
| 12:39.40 | Tronic | +to |
| 12:39.52 | DocScrutinizer | ranames the channel to "lost in translation" |
| 12:40.01 | berndhs | I wouldn't want a phone without hardware keyboard |
| 12:41.03 | Tronic | I can live without one, especially if the phone is much slimmer. |
| 12:41.26 | djszapi | yep, that is the reason for me as well with N9 |
| 12:41.29 | RST38h | Meanwhile: Blast at French nuclear plant |
| 12:41.31 | Tronic | I also hope that the touchscreen of the N9 doesn't go too close to the edges like the one on N950 does. |
| 12:41.39 | MohammadAG | it's curved |
| 12:41.48 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: an NDA that both parties mustn't talk about to arbitrary third party is absolutely wworthless, as none of the contractors could enforce such an NDA - the judge and lawyers mustn't read it |
| 12:41.52 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 12:42.02 | *** join/#harmattan lcuk (lcuk@cpc2-oldh7-0-0-cust702.10-1.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 12:42.02 | *** join/#harmattan lcuk (lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk) |
| 12:42.34 | Tronic | => your palm touches the touchscreen when you try to reach the other corner, causing pinch or swipe gestures to be detected instead of a click. |
| 12:42.42 | djszapi | Tronis: it does, but not that sharp side: http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n9 |
| 12:43.10 | MohammadAG | the N9 has QtWebkit 4.9.1 o_O |
| 12:43.12 | Tronic | The curve might help. I am going to test that tomorrow. |
| 12:43.19 | MohammadAG | 4.9.0 and 4.8.1* |
| 12:43.24 | Tronic | MohammadAG: What does N950 have? |
| 12:43.26 | RST38h | wonders when they start making these tablets in the shape of a painter's palette |
| 12:43.34 | Tronic | Hoepfully N9 will also have less browser crashing. |
| 12:43.36 | MohammadAG | oh, same |
| 12:43.39 | RST38h | WUTH THE FREAKING HOLE for the thumb |
| 12:43.44 | MohammadAG | the N9 browser's good afaik |
| 12:43.51 | MohammadAG | the n950's browser in 22-6 is half finished |
| 12:43.57 | djszapi | Tronic: mmm, never crashed for me |
| 12:44.18 | MohammadAG | and SSL sites probably work |
| 12:44.22 | MohammadAG | which reminds me |
| 12:44.28 | MohammadAG | what's the browser's binary name? |
| 12:44.28 | Tronic | I get frequent crashing, I think it happens when I interrupt page loading or on some AJAX-heavy sites. |
| 12:44.42 | RST38h | asks the Tentacled One to help delivering firmware update to the N950s |
| 12:44.54 | Tronic | Need to close the browser and try again for it to work. |
| 12:45.10 | djszapi | Tronic: no worries, no crashes here ever :p |
| 12:47.08 | Tronic | Another annoyance with the N950 browser is that when you have a page open, open the history and click a page there, a click will also be detected on the page you had open. If there was a link at that particular spot, it will be opened instead of the page you tried clicking on the history. |
| 12:47.10 | deimos | if I open browser with Qt.openUrlExternally() it crashes |
| 12:47.18 | Tronic | I'm sure that has been fixed already, too. |
| 12:48.16 | djszapi | yes, that is weird since facebook would not work either, but it does. |
| 12:48.51 | MohammadAG | anyone successfully used an N9 on RDA? |
| 12:49.13 | djszapi | MohammadAG: btw, do you still have mtf question ? I was busy last night with the dictionray :p |
| 12:49.38 | MohammadAG | yeah, I gave models a shot and got a segfault in return :) |
| 12:50.33 | djszapi | ok, so please make the question precise :) |
| 12:51.43 | deimos | djszapi: do you mean "define shot" ? |
| 12:51.45 | deimos | :) |
| 12:52.36 | deimos | go away |
| 12:52.59 | *** join/#harmattan Ans5i (~ae@a83-245-236-219.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:53.26 | djszapi | deimos :) |
| 12:55.57 | MohammadAG | djszapi, do you have a model example at hand? :) |
| 12:56.13 | MohammadAG | one that allows live filtering (letters on the side) |
| 12:57.04 | djszapi | MohammadAG: what sort of model ? |
| 12:57.42 | MohammadAG | djszapi, QAbstractListModel, or anything that can let me have a long list that I can add items to dynamically |
| 13:00.21 | kkito | MohammadAG: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qdeclarativemodels.html |
| 13:00.22 | djszapi | I guess messaging or receipt-editor will have some example |
| 13:01.06 | MohammadAG | djszapi, wanted a model from an app you wrote |
| 13:01.09 | MohammadAG | unless it's not public |
| 13:01.11 | MohammadAG | kkito, MTF |
| 13:01.39 | kkito | was not MTF deprecated? |
| 13:01.59 | berndhs | MTF was deprecated before it was announced |
| 13:02.11 | djszapi | QWidget is also deprecated, this is not an arguement itself. |
| 13:02.36 | djszapi | and I think it is deprecated only from 1.3 |
| 13:02.45 | djszapi | which might never reach harmattan |
| 13:03.33 | kkito | qwidget is better than qml for ui imo |
| 13:04.09 | kkito | qml is a little bit weird |
| 13:04.13 | kkito | declarative+imperative inthe same markup language |
| 13:04.14 | kkito | is weird |
| 13:04.18 | kkito | and ugly |
| 13:04.33 | artemm | and fast :) |
| 13:05.14 | berndhs | the main problem with QML is that its incomplete |
| 13:05.16 | kkito | is so difficult to realize how the things works in qml without demos |
| 13:05.44 | artemm | berndhs: that is true. It gets more complete over time though |
| 13:05.45 | MohammadAG | <djszapi> QWidget is also deprecated |
| 13:05.48 | MohammadAG | nope, just done :) |
| 13:05.59 | artemm | and there's always c++ to back you up if something is just impossible in qml |
| 13:06.05 | MohammadAG | <artemm> and fast :) |
| 13:06.09 | MohammadAG | fast? |
| 13:06.11 | MohammadAG | QML is far from fast |
| 13:06.20 | artemm | fast for development |
| 13:06.25 | djszapi | MohammadAG: actually they are the same situation, deprecated later |
| 13:06.36 | djszapi | there is no difference in that sense between QWidget or MTF. |
| 13:06.48 | MohammadAG | only difference is MTF only runs on MeeGo |
| 13:06.54 | berndhs | artemm: right, but it isn't possible to plan anything, nobody knows the timing |
| 13:07.02 | artemm | even fast in testing. My hundred QML test are run within 10-12 secs. And that includes UI level acceptance tests. Try doing that with C++ test harness |
| 13:07.15 | MohammadAG | artemm, 5s to run an app |
| 13:07.24 | artemm | an 55 to compile it? :) |
| 13:07.26 | MohammadAG | 1s to start the app |
| 13:07.28 | artemm | *and |
| 13:07.34 | MohammadAG | artemm, no, 5s all in all |
| 13:07.45 | artemm | good machine you've got |
| 13:07.57 | *** join/#harmattan roop (~roop@117.213.240.51) |
| 13:07.57 | MohammadAG | you're normal i5 laptop |
| 13:08.13 | MohammadAG | normally you only build touched files, not all the package |
| 13:08.20 | RST38h | QWidget is definitely not deprecated |
| 13:08.30 | RST38h | On Harmattan, maybe, but not in real world |
| 13:08.35 | MohammadAG | yes |
| 13:08.45 | djszapi | check out the Qt5 architecture and come back |
| 13:09.07 | RST38h | Will check Qt5 architecture when Qt5 arrives and gets adopted by the industry |
| 13:09.12 | MohammadAG | http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/12/crickey-nokias-n9-goes-up-for-preorder-in-australia/ |
| 13:09.16 | djszapi | same with MeeGo touch |
| 13:09.21 | MohammadAG | djszapi, Qt5 says done, not deprecated |
| 13:09.22 | djszapi | MTF is simply not deprecated yet |
| 13:09.23 | *** join/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 13:09.37 | berndhs | MTF only exists on N950, right ? |
| 13:10.02 | RST38h | MTF has been officially deprecated by Nokia, and it is not used anywhere outside Harmattan and [in some place] Meego |
| 13:10.03 | djszapi | so it is hardly a good arguement itself to say "it will be deprecated" in both cases. |
| 13:10.26 | RST38h | QWidget is used everywhere, including the whole KDE environment |
| 13:10.27 | berndhs | really, MTF has been announced as deprecated more than 1 year ago |
| 13:10.32 | RST38h | Go depracte THAT |
| 13:11.23 | MohammadAG | <RST38h> MTF has been officially deprecated by Nokia |
| 13:11.36 | MohammadAG | afaik it's deprecated by MeeGo people, not Nokia |
| 13:11.39 | MohammadAG | most of Harmattan is MTF |
| 13:11.58 | RST38h | Mohammad: because it has been already written at that point |
| 13:12.11 | djszapi | or fixed functionatlity pipeline in opengl |
| 13:12.11 | RST38h | Mohammad: But yes, Nokians went on record saying MTF is dead. |
| 13:12.11 | berndhs | well, Harmattan is officially deprecated if you believe Nokia |
| 13:12.31 | RST38h | And now, quoting from "The Road to Qt5" specifically for djszapi: |
| 13:12.33 | RST38h | "While |
| 13:12.33 | RST38h | we |
| 13:12.33 | RST38h | keep |
| 13:12.33 | RST38h | the |
| 13:12.33 | RST38h | QWidget |
| 13:12.35 | djszapi | still a lot of developers doing that way |
| 13:12.39 | *** join/#harmattan RST38h (marat@wsip-184-180-40-182.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 13:12.50 | RST38h | Oh holy fuck |
| 13:13.12 | RST38h | Remind me never to paste from Acroreader, ever again |
| 13:14.15 | djszapi | MohammadAG: yes, sorry, you are right, it seems they are done, not deprecated. |
| 13:14.24 | djszapi | but the thing is that they will still be used where it makes sense |
| 13:14.28 | djszapi | so is MTF. |
| 13:14.37 | RST38h | MTF won't be used anywhere else. |
| 13:14.45 | djszapi | so it is hardly a good arguement |
| 13:14.53 | djszapi | RST38h: actually harmattan is 99% MTF |
| 13:14.56 | berndhs | i'm not using MTF even on harmattan :) |
| 13:15.00 | djszapi | no, they will not rewrite it |
| 13:15.02 | RST38h | As to QWidget, gimme a moment to quote properly |
| 13:15.15 | RST38h | Harmattan won't be used anywhere else. What is your next argument? |
| 13:15.27 | djszapi | but we are developing here for Harmattan ? |
| 13:15.52 | berndhs | i'm developing for everything here, harmattan, vanilla-meego, desktop |
| 13:16.07 | djszapi | well, on this channel, I talk about harmattan, sorry :) |
| 13:16.26 | djszapi | and if I need performance, or I just like C++, I fail to see why not write that way. |
| 13:16.27 | berndhs | i'm not developing special things for a platform that is announced dead before its released |
| 13:16.50 | djszapi | yeah, sure 5-6 sec is good for you :) |
| 13:16.56 | djszapi | but obviously nightmare for some people (including myself) |
| 13:18.06 | *** join/#harmattan faenil (8372aab5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.114.170.181) |
| 13:18.52 | RST38h | Quoting Lars Knoll for you: "While we keep the QWidget based progamming model and API set available for compatibility we also see QML as the future for user interfaces on the desktop" |
| 13:19.04 | RST38h | So, QWidget does not go anywhere in Qt5 |
| 13:19.12 | RST38h | MTF, on the other hand, is not even mentioned. |
| 13:19.58 | djszapi | harmattan was mostly written in MTF, it is gonna be there, not gonna go anywhere. |
| 13:20.10 | djszapi | no real risk for developing MTF application, and you can even gain from it. |
| 13:20.28 | RST38h | What is going to be the life of Harmattan? |
| 13:20.36 | RST38h | Will there be Harmattan devices beyond N9? |
| 13:20.50 | djszapi | MohammadAG: https://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/libmeegotouch/blobs/master/demos/widgetsgallery/phonebookmodel.cpp the methods that you need are .. groupCount() rowCountInGroup() groupTitle() and itemData() |
| 13:20.53 | RST38h | Will Harmattan source code be completely open by Nokia? |
| 13:21.21 | djszapi | life is rather obviously not much |
| 13:24.43 | RST38h | And the rest of the questions? |
| 13:24.45 | berndhs | having said all that, what's a good way to alert a user, for example when an IRC ping arrives ? |
| 13:25.38 | djszapi | RST38h: I am not sure which question is not obvious, they seem to me :) |
| 13:25.59 | RST38h | djszapi: I would like to hear the answer from yourself though |
| 13:26.22 | RST38h | Because it was you insisting on MTF being "not dead" because you are "programming in it" |
| 13:26.33 | RST38h | Meanwhile: HTC Corp chairwoman Cher Wang announced that the company is interested in buying an operating system. |
| 13:26.50 | berndhs | aha |
| 13:27.20 | djszapi | why would be wise to buy Harmattan and revamp the whole Ui instead of getting a free meego ? |
| 13:27.38 | artemm | I don't think Nokia is into opening Harmattan: it's like giving out a strong competitor to their own devices (WP7 ones) |
| 13:27.39 | djszapi | (which is already not MTF based, would seem a false decision) |
| 13:27.46 | artemm | same means that they won't sell Harmattan for cheap |
| 13:27.52 | artemm | for a lot of money - maybe |
| 13:28.14 | kkito | I think that nokia doesnt know what is doing, anything is possible |
| 13:28.41 | djszapi | kkito: Nokia does not, but people are already gone, so not much of chance to revamp everything for fun :) |
| 13:29.16 | kkito | djszapi: what people? |
| 13:29.34 | djszapi | devs |
| 13:29.53 | kkito | djszapi: well, you are still working in nokia :P |
| 13:29.58 | RST38h | Nobody is buying Harmattan, who gave you this impression? |
| 13:30.06 | djszapi | kkito: yeah, and about 20 % remained :p |
| 13:30.18 | RST38h | HTC appears to be planning on buying WebOS, not Harmattan |
| 13:30.21 | artemm | yeah, that's most sad point. Even if @selop gets overruled and they want to bet on meego again, there's no people to make it easy. That is certainly still possible, but hard |
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| 13:30.51 | RST38h | artemm: Doable, but will most likely take another 6-12 months |
| 13:31.01 | djszapi | hahahahahaha |
| 13:31.06 | RST38h | And a wizard of a manager |
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| 13:33.16 | RST38h | moo rm_work |
| 13:33.21 | rm_work | m00 |
| 13:34.05 | djszapi | 5-6 times more people within few years was not able to finish it, but this amount of people in 6-10 months can revamp the whole Ui, sure... |
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| 13:34.14 | DocScrutinizer | Cher, haha. I wonder what she did with OM |
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| 13:35.56 | Arkenoi | Nokia made it in it usual unique style, creating an "open" system filled with proprietary hooks to ensure no one else can use it. |
| 13:37.09 | artemm | oh well, djszapi, these people were restarting harmattan nearly from scratch several times - nokia way of doing strategy, you know :) |
| 13:37.41 | artemm | and then getting open sourc(ish) way of working indeed takes som eeffort |
| 13:37.44 | artemm | *some effort |
| 13:38.17 | DocScrutinizer | for Nokia, indeed |
| 13:38.24 | DocScrutinizer | still not there yet |
| 13:38.33 | artemm | already not there :) |
| 13:38.43 | artemm | only Qt stays open source |
| 13:38.54 | artemm | i mean for real |
| 13:38.55 | artemm | and quite separately from the rest of nokia |
| 13:39.14 | DocScrutinizer | and only core Qt is really decent |
| 13:40.03 | RST38h | Yep |
| 13:40.37 | RST38h | If by "few" you mean at least 3, then 3*5=15 years |
| 13:40.44 | RST38h | Harmattan has not been in the development for this long |
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| 13:43.17 | kkito | interesting... http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/09/12/qt-project/ |
| 13:43.33 | kkito | they are finally moving out from nokia? |
| 13:47.42 | RST38h | Oh well |
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| 13:57.33 | MohammadAG | is there a way to get google maps without using their API? |
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| 14:01.17 | leinir | kkito: it's been moving that way for quite a while now, and yes, it is /finally/ going live, about a week before Dev.Days in Munich :) |
| 14:01.25 | Anssi138 | how to measure smaps in harmattan? the /proc/PID/smaps is empty |
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| 14:12.03 | MohammadAG | is the browser on the mandatory aegis list? |
| 14:12.07 | MohammadAG | I feel like upgrading it |
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| 14:16.13 | RST38h | MohammadAG: They have got a URL that returns a .png |
| 14:16.27 | RST38h | MohammadAG: For obvious reasons, they do not advertise it too much |
| 14:16.57 | MohammadAG | RST38h, we've discussed that it returns an empty map for Israel once, remember? :) |
| 14:17.20 | RST38h | Ah yesss |
| 14:17.42 | RST38h | It is not invalid result, just being returned for a future date... |
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| 14:17.59 | MohammadAG | no, they're not allowed to return Israeli's maps via their API |
| 14:18.05 | MohammadAG | http://maps.google.com/maps/api/staticmap?center=31.82606742,35.45&zoom=12&size=800x480&maptype=mobile&markers=color:red|label:Y|31.82601118,35.22275215&sensor=false |
| 14:18.26 | MohammadAG | maps.google.com and maemo-mapper show them fine though |
| 14:18.45 | RST38h | a moment, let me locate the url |
| 14:19.05 | RST38h | it is different from what you have quoted |
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| 14:22.52 | gri | Is there a way to do text size calculation from qml? I think I've heard: no? |
| 14:23.48 | RST38h | ah broke firefox while mining for that url |
| 14:27.43 | RST38h | Mohammad: Still here? |
| 14:30.04 | RST38h | Mohammad: Anyway, try something like this: http://mt1.google.com/vt/lyrs=m@159000000&hl=en&x=2445&y=1652&z=12&s=Gal |
| 14:30.27 | RST38h | Mohammad: where z= is the zoom level and x=/y= are the tile coordinates |
| 14:30.47 | RST38h | Yes, there is a function to convert latlons to tile coordinates |
| 14:31.28 | berndhs | gri: put the text in an invisible Text element, get width and height |
| 14:32.02 | RST38h | berndhs: ... |
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| 14:42.47 | gri | berndhs: If it's invisible, the width is 0 |
| 14:43.23 | gri | oh or not .. moment |
| 14:44.16 | gri | berndhs: You were right, I actually put the Text element outside of the delegate which caused the 0-width |
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| 15:10.01 | alterego | How does aegis handle libs? |
| 15:10.08 | alterego | Say I have a lib that wants to access the camera? |
| 15:10.23 | alterego | Is that handled through whatever binary exe uses the lib? |
| 15:10.39 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it, it should all be in teh manifest |
| 15:10.51 | alterego | The manifest for the executable, or the library? |
| 15:11.05 | SpeedEvil | The executable I thought - but I haven't gone into it in detail |
| 15:11.09 | npm_ | anybody have a good icon for "proximity detection on" |
| 15:11.23 | npm_ | hmm i got renamed |
| 15:11.28 | npm | there |
| 15:11.37 | SpeedEvil | thinks of proximity detecting things in real life. |
| 15:11.45 | SpeedEvil | A landmine? |
| 15:11.52 | SpeedEvil | A watch-goose? |
| 15:12.01 | npm | i was thinking of a big smiley face actually, since it's for when you put the phone to your phase |
| 15:12.04 | npm | face |
| 15:12.11 | npm | that was a weird typo |
| 15:12.33 | alterego | crosses fingers |
| 15:14.11 | alterego | Cool, that's semi-working, still no video displaying though :D |
| 15:18.01 | npm | wonders what a watch goose is. all we have is surfing dolphins |
| 15:18.35 | npm | so is there some special trick to registering at the ovi store? |
| 15:18.47 | npm | whenever it gets to payment, it just hangs |
| 15:19.43 | alterego | http://pastie.org/2521482 |
| 15:19.48 | MohammadAG | alterego, the bin afaik |
| 15:19.57 | alterego | Nice simple way to implement a bar code reader in QML :D |
| 15:20.33 | MohammadAG | what's QRCodeDiscoverer? |
| 15:20.52 | alterego | It's a class I've written in a qml plugin |
| 15:21.16 | Anssi138 | alterego, hope that helps. there is also <provide>: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_Security_guide_Aegis_manifest_syntax.html |
| 15:21.20 | alterego | I should generalise it a bit .. |
| 15:21.29 | MohammadAG | so it's C++, not QML? :P |
| 15:21.45 | alterego | Anssi138: yeah, sorted out, I'm just wondering how my generic qml launcher can manage security .. |
| 15:22.34 | alterego | MohammadAG: erm, so what? It's binded to QML for people to use there. |
| 15:22.41 | alterego | And works very nicely. |
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| 15:22.51 | alterego | Though the video item isn't working yet .. |
| 15:23.28 | alterego | Which is probably the most important part of that module :D |
| 15:23.51 | Anssi138 | alterego, maybe some credentials could be inherited from local launcher/env or something. |
| 15:24.20 | Anssi138 | i am specialist, just speculating :) |
| 15:25.43 | alterego | Well, it doesn't bother me tbh, it's just that if someone uses my launcher, then I need to give the launcher all possible permissions through aegis |
| 15:25.48 | alterego | Which seems a bit silly. |
| 15:30.20 | alterego | Okay, I was wrong, video is working fine ... |
| 15:30.22 | alterego | :D |
| 15:30.24 | alterego | giggles. |
| 15:31.44 | Anssi138 | alterego, i menat to say: i am NOT specialist :) |
| 15:31.53 | alterego | Anssi138: thought you might ;) |
| 15:31.58 | Anssi138 | he |
| 15:32.01 | Anssi138 | h |
| 15:34.58 | Anssi138 | alterego, are you running in developer mode? |
| 15:38.32 | alterego | Anssi138: indeed. |
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| 15:52.10 | alterego | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRO1Tg1hU3k |
| 15:52.17 | alterego | And, that is my first youtube video .. |
| 16:02.34 | crevetor | alterego: did you write stage.rubyx.GrandeActivityMonitor ? |
| 16:03.16 | alterego | crevetor: yes |
| 16:03.27 | crevetor | Is it available somewhere ? |
| 16:03.33 | alterego | No :) |
| 16:03.36 | crevetor | :'( |
| 16:03.38 | alterego | Not yet, I'm gonna rename some stuff. |
| 16:03.42 | crevetor | ok |
| 16:04.00 | alterego | And seperate the grande domain specific stuff from a generic barcode reading plugin |
| 16:04.04 | crevetor | Did you use zbar or something like that or you wrote it from scratch ? |
| 16:04.08 | alterego | Which I'm presuming is what you want ? ;) |
| 16:04.13 | alterego | zbar |
| 16:04.15 | crevetor | yep :) |
| 16:04.19 | crevetor | ok cool |
| 16:04.42 | alterego | Did you check out the code source? |
| 16:04.48 | crevetor | yes |
| 16:04.51 | alterego | Cool |
| 16:04.52 | crevetor | it's neat |
| 16:04.54 | alterego | Neate isn't it :) |
| 16:04.56 | alterego | :) |
| 16:05.32 | alterego | I'll let you know when I stick it on gitorious, and I'll package it up for Harmattan soon. |
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| 16:06.27 | alterego | I need to practise making youtube videos though :D |
| 16:12.36 | SpeedEvil | There are way too many awesome people on youtube. |
| 16:12.39 | npm | is there some kind of dbus signal or way of finding out a "handle" on a given email message in the mail application. (like a URL, so one can go back to a given email message from a different app) |
| 16:12.49 | SpeedEvil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jER-GxU8DE0&feature=feedu |
| 16:12.59 | SpeedEvil | 'I made a wooden bandsaw' |
| 16:14.01 | MohammadAG | k, Aegis killed |
| 16:14.09 | MohammadAG | Sep 12 19:13:44 (none) SKYPE-ACCOUNT-PLUGIN: Warning: [44:052] Skype Connection could not be connected <-- but this still shows up :/ |
| 16:15.00 | npm | alterego, looks awesome |
| 16:16.33 | alterego | npm: thanks |
| 16:17.24 | npm | i'm looking forward to source code, but not this week or month... whenever youre ready :-) |
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| 16:25.59 | alterego | :) |
| 16:26.04 | alterego | I'm working on it right now ;) |
| 16:33.00 | MohammadAG | how do I know which libs/bins a binary's calling? |
| 16:33.44 | alterego | strace |
| 16:33.56 | MohammadAG | doesn't output helpful info |
| 16:34.10 | alterego | Learn how to use it then :P |
| 16:34.22 | MohammadAG | I do... |
| 16:34.25 | MohammadAG | try it on Harmattan |
| 16:36.18 | vladest | hi all |
| 16:37.11 | vladest | I'm trying to create an test app using QCamera + QGraphicsVideoItem but the only thing I can get is white screen |
| 16:37.17 | vladest | what is wring? |
| 16:37.20 | *** join/#harmattan GeneralAntilles (~ryan@Maemo/community/contributor/GeneralAntilles) |
| 16:37.21 | vladest | wrong |
| 16:37.43 | vladest | permissions for video is requested |
| 16:37.48 | alterego | vladest: have you added the appropriate privileges to your manifest.aegis file? |
| 16:37.59 | vladest | alterego: yep |
| 16:38.16 | alterego | Can I see your code? |
| 16:38.43 | vladest | alterego: GRP::pulse-access and GRP::video |
| 16:38.57 | vladest | alterego: how can I send it? |
| 16:39.19 | vladest | same code recompiled for symbian works just fine |
| 16:43.40 | alterego | Interesting .. |
| 16:43.57 | alterego | Well, I don't know then :) |
| 16:44.01 | vladest | alterego: can I send you 200k zip? |
| 16:44.13 | alterego | vladest: rm the build directory. |
| 16:44.17 | alterego | Then try rebuilding it. |
| 16:44.34 | vladest | oke |
| 16:44.57 | alterego | I had a problem with it not recognising the aegis manifest had changed. |
| 16:46.11 | vladest | It workS!! |
| 16:46.21 | vladest | alterego: thanks for the tip |
| 16:46.49 | alterego | :) |
| 16:46.57 | alterego | qt creator #fail :) |
| 16:47.50 | vladest | exactly :) |
| 16:48.18 | vladest | any news about fresh fw for n950? |
| 16:51.39 | rm_work | yeah, could really use better FW |
| 16:51.40 | rm_work | my n950 doesn't really make or receive calls 90% of the time anymore :( |
| 16:55.50 | GeneralAntilles | Nor mine |
| 16:55.54 | GeneralAntilles | Funny how that works. |
| 17:04.24 | rm_work | yeah it's like someone forgot the "phone" part of the n950 :P |
| 17:04.44 | rm_work | we're back to the original plan: Internet Tablet with 3G Data |
| 17:05.07 | rm_work | and "technically you could hack it to make voice calls" |
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| 17:07.26 | RST38h | well. moo. |
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| 18:08.33 | RST38h | rzr: Some time ago, you said you were going to remove the 'mg' package from your repo toavoid the name clash.Could you please do that? |
| 18:08.45 | RST38h | rzr: Renaming it into something like mg-emacs will also work |
| 18:10.16 | RzR | didnt I ? |
| 18:10.35 | RzR | let me double check i was doing that on a train w/ n950 |
| 18:11.10 | RST38h | just "upgraded"me to it |
| 18:11.31 | RST38h | And the sad part is, I no longer remember the magic incantation that quits emacs =) |
| 18:12.41 | RzR | ok done |
| 18:12.49 | RzR | the only relic of it there |
| 18:12.51 | RzR | is there |
| 18:12.52 | RzR | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=mg&project=home%3Arzr%3Atmp |
| 18:13.06 | RzR | C-x C-c |
| 18:13.29 | RST38h | thanks |
| 18:14.11 | RzR | now please give me sources of your mg sources ? |
| 18:14.16 | RzR | url |
| 18:14.21 | RzR | my brain hurts |
| 18:14.30 | RzR | i am on HoLyDaYs !!! |
| 18:15.15 | RST38h | Sorry? |
| 18:16.09 | rzr` | i was wondering if your mg could be rebuild on obs ? |
| 18:16.24 | RST38h | Unfortunately, not. It is a binary package. |
| 18:18.26 | RzR | ok then it would be better to rebame it your side |
| 18:18.29 | RzR | rename |
| 18:18.37 | RST38h | Why? |
| 18:18.57 | RzR | mg existed before you afaik |
| 18:19.27 | RST38h | Just a little while ago you promised to rename or remove the package in your repo |
| 18:19.37 | RzR | and i did remove to prefer your version , but if it can be rebuild then i'll none of both |
| 18:19.45 | RzR | i removed it |
| 18:20.05 | RST38h | Ok, thanks |
| 18:20.13 | RST38h | My package is avaliable from deb http://sheeplauncher.net/debs/ ./ |
| 18:20.51 | RST38h | Simply include it into the list of your sources |
| 18:21.17 | RzR | i prefer opensource alternatives for now |
| 18:21.31 | RzR | maybe ovi is best for closed bit |
| 18:22.05 | RST38h | No problem, I have got a repo to upload them to |
| 18:31.02 | rzr` | please think about renaming your mg too |
| 18:33.46 | berndhs | rzr: did you figure out the build problem ? I shipped version 0.6.4 through the c.obs repo |
| 18:34.54 | rzr` | no i had no time to investigate |
| 18:35.09 | berndhs | ok |
| 18:36.17 | rzr` | but it didnt work for me |
| 18:36.30 | rzr` | can anyone here try berndhs's e6irc ? |
| 18:36.44 | berndhs | the package looks good, comes in through the normal repo update mechanism |
| 18:36.57 | berndhs | are you building it differently ? |
| 18:37.00 | rzr` | the package install fine |
| 18:37.05 | rzr` | i used yours |
| 18:37.14 | rzr` | but it does not show the main window |
| 18:37.20 | berndhs | that's weird |
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| 19:58.14 | MohammadAG | RST38h, what's the function? |
| 20:04.02 | djszapi | javispedro o/ =) |
| 20:04.08 | javispedro | hi |
| 20:07.05 | djszapi | I have just seen the SNES on N900 video today :) |
| 20:07.26 | MohammadAG | is there a way to open the virtual keyboard programatically? |
| 20:07.45 | rcg | MohammadAG: via QML? |
| 20:07.48 | MohammadAG | MTF |
| 20:08.14 | rcg | sorry, got no clue about mtf |
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| 20:11.07 | Ans5i | yep |
| 20:11.14 | rcg | well.. in qml the keywords are "TextInput" and "openSoftwareInputPanel()".. but that might be pretty misleading as well for mtf |
| 20:11.28 | RST38h | MohammadAG: sorry? |
| 20:11.41 | RST38h | ah the conversion |
| 20:11.42 | djszapi | MohammadAG: yes, but what is the use case of that ? |
| 20:11.45 | MohammadAG | RST38h, latlon to tiles |
| 20:11.49 | MohammadAG | djszapi, custom terminal |
| 20:12.15 | RST38h | Mohammad: http://board.flashkit.com/board/archive/index.php/t-666832.html |
| 20:12.40 | RST38h | Mohammad: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2651099/convert-long-lat-to-pixel-x-y-on-a-given-picure |
| 20:15.45 | Ans5i | MohammadAG, would that help? http://apidocs.meego.com/1.1/platform/html/libmeegotouch/class_m_input_method_state.html |
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| 20:16.47 | MohammadAG | yep, http://apidocs.meego.com/1.1/platform/html/libmeegotouch/class_m_input_method_state.html#a82a59dc6c92ef65598ead51b40447b5b |
| 20:16.50 | MohammadAG | thanks :D |
| 20:18.10 | alterego | bangs head against wall |
| 20:18.24 | alterego | Fixed |
| 20:18.28 | alterego | That was a frustrationg hour |
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| 21:59.20 | GeneralAntilles | javispedro, estimated ship date tomorrow. |
| 21:59.29 | alterego | For what? |
| 21:59.30 | javispedro | oh |
| 21:59.34 | GeneralAntilles | MetaWatch |
| 21:59.34 | javispedro | goes look it up |
| 21:59.36 | alterego | N9? :D |
| 22:00.04 | artem_ | so they screwed Kazakhstan :) |
| 22:00.09 | artem_ | for swiss |
| 22:00.16 | npm | RST38h: thanks for posting that. http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/latlong.html maybe be directly usable in QML... however, any suggestions on doing distance queries as an SQLite query? |
| 22:00.47 | javispedro | pft |
| 22:01.01 | javispedro | mine says "Est. ship date" yesterday. |
| 22:01.07 | javispedro | status: processing |
| 22:01.25 | javispedro | well, yesterday by just 1 minute =) |
| 22:01.48 | GeneralAntilles | Where's it shipping from? |
| 22:01.51 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: btw, did you read the news about ex-Nokians buying metawatch from fossil? |
| 22:02.05 | GeneralAntilles | Nope |
| 22:02.43 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: http://www.metawatch.org/blog/2011/09/meta-watch-acquired.html |
| 22:03.33 | javispedro | so, back to Finland. No way to escape! ;) |
| 22:07.13 | GeneralAntilles | Goddamn Finns |
| 22:35.32 | alterego | thinks of neat things he can do with bar code readers |
| 22:35.51 | alterego | I really need a version for the N900 though, the N950 is a pita to code on. |
| 22:36.35 | MohammadAG | wish I could get a metawatch :/ |
| 22:39.26 | javispedro | ponders whether to make the Watch class a QPaintDevice or not ;) |
| 22:40.57 | MohammadAG | anyone know of some cheap US/Europe to other places forwarding services? |
| 22:41.43 | javispedro | MohammadAG: sure they do not ship to .il? |
| 22:41.57 | MohammadAG | says US and Europe |
| 22:42.02 | alterego | MohammadAG: I could ship to you if you get really stuck |
| 22:42.04 | MohammadAG | no Asia makes it even worse |
| 22:42.09 | javispedro | ah :( |
| 22:42.10 | alterego | Thinking of purchasing one myself |
| 22:42.16 | javispedro | weirdo TI would not ship to Asia |
| 22:42.39 | javispedro | their real HQs are located in .in after all ;) |
| 22:42.51 | MohammadAG | Nokia counts Israel as Europe though :p |
| 22:42.58 | MohammadAG | alterego, thanks, I'll see what happens :) |
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| 22:45.07 | MohammadAG | that digital one looks sexy |
| 22:49.46 | MohammadAG | I'm assuming that since Israel is in the list they ship there? |
| 22:52.18 | MohammadAG | javispedro, wait... QGraphicsScene works on the watch? |
| 22:52.25 | MohammadAG | might as well port MTF! |
| 22:52.29 | javispedro | obviously not |
| 22:52.35 | javispedro | but I have this idea.. |
| 22:57.47 | GeneralAntilles | Yes, everyone here needs to get a MetaWatch. |
| 22:57.50 | GeneralAntilles | Lotsa hackers |
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| 22:57.54 | GeneralAntilles | Justify my expenditure! |
| 22:58.15 | javispedro | you evil bastards, justify mine! ;P |
| 22:58.19 | alterego | They have an accel! |
| 22:59.14 | javispedro | the watches themselves are not going to run much, as the uC they have is designed for ultra low power consumption |
| 22:59.31 | GeneralAntilles | I'd love to see an analog version with a second hand and about a 25mm face. |
| 22:59.44 | GeneralAntilles | With a decently highres screen as the face. |
| 23:00.00 | javispedro | but they're supposed to be connected to a cell phone, and then kind act as the cell phone's second screen and vibrator |
| 23:00.36 | artem_ | they will start to ask students take off watches during the tests |
| 23:00.48 | MohammadAG | oooh, thanks for the idea artem_ |
| 23:00.54 | javispedro | late |
| 23:01.04 | javispedro | casio already had a camera watch a decade ag |
| 23:01.10 | artem_ | u r welcome, but I am sure these ideas will come at l=plenty :) |
| 23:01.15 | MohammadAG | fuck cameras I want google translate :P |
| 23:01.32 | GeneralAntilles | Just wait until they have to ask you to disable the retinal projectors in your glasses |
| 23:01.32 | MohammadAG | Hebrew feels like QML |
| 23:01.35 | GeneralAntilles | or your neural implant |
| 23:02.34 | javispedro | MohammadAG: a camera with builtin monochrome LCD... to see... uh, interesting data. |
| 23:04.50 | MohammadAG | question of the year, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=76635 |
| 23:05.52 | alterego | I wonder what refresh rate you could get over bluetooth to the meta watch |
| 23:06.15 | javispedro | alterego: yes, I wonder that. Either way, any kind of high refresh rate will kill the battery |
| 23:06.37 | javispedro | alterego: still, the idea of having to implement e.g. marquee in anything other than QML is probably enough to make this a interesting research area. |
| 23:06.42 | javispedro | *marquee text |
| 23:06.59 | alterego | Yeah, |
| 23:07.15 | javispedro | so |
| 23:07.27 | javispedro | any way I can know which areas where damaged between a QPainter::begin and ::end? |
| 23:07.28 | artem_ | vaguely remembers some Nokia gadget from several years ago that was showing text messages, mixed calls, had voice dialin |
| 23:07.30 | alterego | I actually developed a Qt based virtual matrix form a marquee app a while ago. |
| 23:07.39 | artem_ | was pretty cool, but too much hassle to carry around |
| 23:07.42 | alterego | javispedro: n really no. |
| 23:08.25 | javispedro | so I'd have to implement my own painter engine, that virtually just forwards call to the raster one except measuring damaged area? |
| 23:08.40 | javispedro | then overrride end() so that it uploads the damaged area to the watch |
| 23:08.55 | alterego | Sounds like a good idea. |
| 23:09.15 | alterego | handling a 90x90 bitmap should be pretty easy :) |
| 23:09.21 | javispedro | yeah |
| 23:09.24 | alterego | on the cpu that is. |
| 23:09.51 | GeneralAntilles | Music control would be pretty sweet. |
| 23:10.51 | artem_ | James Bond would use it as a control/display for camera of all the phones in the next room |
| 23:11.06 | javispedro | alterego: being monochrome, the entire bitmap fills in under 1KiB =) |
| 23:11.14 | alterego | Noice |
| 23:11.30 | alterego | with a 2Mbit bluetooth connection we have a nice frame rate ;) |
| 23:11.35 | javispedro | *fits |
| 23:11.46 | javispedro | doubt the watch bt stack does that |
| 23:11.56 | alterego | The docs say it does. |
| 23:12.10 | javispedro | in five-minute-battery-life-mode maybe =) |
| 23:12.30 | GeneralAntilles | This looks impossible: http://www.imwatch.it/ |
| 23:12.41 | javispedro | oh noes |
| 23:12.49 | artem_ | *IF* it gets popular, there could be some games that involve both devices. Imaging waving your hand so that a ball from watch screen is thrown to the screen of the phone in the same hand |
| 23:12.53 | javispedro | the watch revolution is for some reason starting |
| 23:13.11 | GeneralAntilles | That site looks like all fluff |
| 23:13.14 | javispedro | will Nokia start watchemo open source project? will we have to move to watchemo.org? |
| 23:13.37 | artem_ | Business card exchange by NFC-touch during the handshake ;) |
| 23:13.57 | artem_ | that is if both guys wear watches on the right hand |
| 23:14.07 | alterego | Heh |
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| 23:14.44 | artem_ | Hey, I know the true killer app! |
| 23:14.49 | artem_ | for this watches |
| 23:14.55 | artem_ | and even a slogan for it |
| 23:15.05 | artem_ | "You never loose your TV remote again!" :) |
| 23:16.23 | javispedro | GeneralAntilles: up to 3,5 hours battery life =9 |
| 23:16.54 | javispedro | nice try, though. |
| 23:17.36 | javispedro | and no vibrator? |
| 23:18.07 | GeneralAntilles | 3.5 hours battery life? |
| 23:18.09 | GeneralAntilles | Ahahaha |
| 23:18.35 | javispedro | though "up to 2 days without BT in standby" which surely means screen off |
| 23:18.41 | javispedro | as the liveview or the inpulse... |
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| 23:18.44 | GeneralAntilles | Pff |
| 23:21.42 | GeneralAntilles | What's the POINT with that sort of performance |
| 23:23.34 | alterego | Having a watch which displayed alarms from the phone would be cool. |
| 23:23.45 | alterego | If you could use it to dismiss them. |
| 23:23.48 | javispedro | that is the point of all of them |
| 23:23.51 | alterego | I'd like that app. |
| 23:23.53 | javispedro | they vibrate |
| 23:24.05 | javispedro | on the wrist -- so no way to miss alarms, calls, etc. |
| 23:24.40 | javispedro | something that happens sadly too often with the n950 :( |
| 23:25.31 | javispedro | but I personally also want: larger than one day batt life, and preferably always on screen. |
| 23:25.50 | SpeedEvil | Easy to do. |
| 23:26.00 | SpeedEvil | Also doubles as a dumbell. |
| 23:26.18 | alterego | You can move the hands on the analog version. |
| 23:26.30 | alterego | Turn it in to a compass or something :) |
| 23:26.49 | alterego | Though it wouldn't know it's orientation. |
| 23:27.26 | special | e-ink watch would be interesting |
| 23:27.27 | SpeedEvil | A watch with a B+W raster-display is probably what's achievable |
| 23:27.36 | SpeedEvil | e-ink has issues. |
| 23:27.39 | javispedro | that's the metawatch. |
| 23:27.48 | SpeedEvil | Primarily that e-ik are bastards that won't sell it to you |
| 23:29.10 | SpeedEvil | The other possibility would be a gaze tracking watch. |
| 23:29.19 | SpeedEvil | That doesn't work unless you look at it. |
| 23:29.33 | SpeedEvil | There are semi-plausible ways of doing this. |
| 23:29.47 | SpeedEvil | The eye is a reteroreflector, when focussed on an object |
| 23:30.08 | SpeedEvil | needs to do some sums. |
| 23:31.46 | alterego | They have a pretty busy forum |
| 23:31.53 | alterego | chuckles |
| 23:31.58 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 23:32.08 | SpeedEvil | I don't need more hardware. |
| 23:32.16 | javispedro | alterego: it's been online since sunday |
| 23:32.19 | SpeedEvil | I'm resisting zipit z2's at the moment |
| 23:32.50 | alterego | Heh |
| 23:32.53 | alterego | g'night folks |
| 23:32.56 | SpeedEvil | Night! |
| 23:33.07 | javispedro | nite alterego |
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| 23:35.35 | GeneralAntilles | alterego, only turns clockwise |
