| 00:15.13 | nibbler | i feel dumb. i can't find the e-mail settings screen. |
| 00:17.26 | ieatlint | you do it via accounts |
| 00:17.37 | ieatlint | accounts app on the home screen |
| 00:22.40 | nibbler | ah. i missed the obvious. thanks! |
| 00:23.10 | Milhouse | anyone remember the trick to get contact birthdays to appear in the Calendar? |
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| 03:09.03 | Scifig | So now that we have Beta 2, can/should we file bugs for harmattan? |
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| 03:09.49 | Clint | c |
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| 05:14.29 | Stskeeps | anyone awake with new firmware? |
| 05:14.39 | Stskeeps | could you dpkg -l | grep fbdev ? |
| 05:17.13 | ieatlint | finds xserver-xorg-video-fbdev |
| 05:18.35 | Stskeeps | what version? |
| 05:20.23 | ieatlint | 0.4.0258+0m6 |
| 05:20.30 | Stskeeps | thanks |
| 05:20.45 | ieatlint | err, 0.4.0-258+0m6 |
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| 05:51.28 | Stskeeps | and dpkg -l | grep kernel ? :) |
| 05:53.13 | special | Stskeeps: 2.6.32-20112910+0m6 |
| 05:53.35 | Stskeeps | thanks |
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| 06:17.06 | gri | Aaaah, when will we be able to ignore the 1 million news feed apps on ovi store ... "new applications" is pretty unusable :( |
| 06:17.34 | mece | well I suppose we can just one-star them all. |
| 06:17.56 | mece | woo, got my contacts imported from ny n900 with sync! |
| 06:17.58 | gri | They appear faster than we can vote it seems |
| 06:18.00 | kulve | I tried to read the logs from the couple of last days but it's still unclear if there's a way to restore contacts from the backup-file made before flashing the new fw? Or is the easiest way to flash the old fw, restore backup, export contacts, flash the new fw, restore backup, import contacts? |
| 06:18.20 | mece | it's not |
| 06:18.22 | Stskeeps | kulve: i'd recommend simply not restoring backup and perhaps export vcf's instead |
| 06:18.36 | mece | kulve, yeah that's the method |
| 06:18.39 | Stskeeps | the schemas have changed in tracker or something |
| 06:18.46 | Stskeeps | so things really blow up :) |
| 06:18.48 | mece | kulve, I imported from n900 |
| 06:18.56 | mece | worked on 5th attempt for some reason |
| 06:19.03 | mece | one attempt actually deleted my N900 contacts. |
| 06:19.10 | Stskeeps | and backup your n900 contacts too |
| 06:19.18 | kulve | I've added some contacts after that, but maybe that would still be the easiest way. The few additions I could add manually.. |
| 06:19.32 | gri | Did anyone attempt to flash the old fw again? I would like the aegis-developer-mode back |
| 06:19.48 | mece | I'm sure you can, if you have the image |
| 06:19.59 | gri | Which I don't have |
| 06:20.14 | mece | I'd like it too. |
| 06:20.20 | mece | the windows version |
| 06:20.40 | mece | also, importing old profile breaks twitter client for some reason |
| 06:20.48 | mece | I mean importing backup made in old firmware |
| 06:21.07 | mece | is a reflash the only way to get angry birds back? |
| 06:21.10 | kulve | I really like the feature that I can close the application by sweeping from top to bottom :) |
| 06:21.23 | mece | yep |
| 06:21.43 | mece | there's also swipe manager in ovi store that enables you to configure what happens when you sweep where |
| 06:21.46 | mece | swipe even |
| 06:21.55 | kulve | and the scrolling at least in some places is really smooth now |
| 06:21.59 | gri | so you know where you end up when swiping :) |
| 06:22.13 | mece | scrolling was smooth before, and it's still smooth, imo. |
| 06:24.55 | kulve | it was, but now e.g. the application list seems to scroll even smoother. I think the scrolling speed is a bit slower which might affect the feeling as well.. |
| 06:25.11 | kulve | or then I'm just imaginating things :) |
| 06:25.54 | mece | might be smoother. I haven't used it that much |
| 06:29.28 | kulve | I had synced my contacts to my work phone (n900) and now I managed to sync those to my n950, so now I have at least most of my contacts |
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| 06:44.56 | mece | hmm.. mr id on tmo says he managed to get stuff restored from backup somehow. |
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| 06:56.04 | kulve | I could "strings" through the contacts from the n950 backup and add manually the few new contacts I had in there |
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| 06:59.19 | spenap | I don't know if that's the case, but if you have your accounts in Google, you don't need the Google account plugin to get them on the device |
| 06:59.25 | spenap | the MfE account can be used for that |
| 06:59.31 | spenap | and works quite fine |
| 06:59.39 | spenap | I've been using it without troubles |
| 06:59.42 | mece | Haha the flasher said "Press enter to exit and remove the cable to reboot... Yo" |
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| 07:01.47 | rantom | Anyone else noticed that the vibration in new FW is not working properly? |
| 07:02.12 | rantom | I've set it up to 3 and it's stuck to 1 |
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| 07:19.43 | henper | hello |
| 07:20.08 | rantom | hi |
| 07:20.15 | henper | could someone point me in the right direction? im developing an app for the n950 and i really can't find how to send notifications to the user |
| 07:20.30 | henper | i found the MNotification class but if i'm not wrong the meego touch library is deprecated? |
| 07:20.38 | alterego | MNotification |
| 07:22.04 | djszapi | henper: yes, it will be, but it is safe to use, if you like that. |
| 07:22.30 | hiemanshu | henper: libharmattaneventview |
| 07:24.04 | djszapi | henper: the vast majority of the Ui is also written in MTF, and even if there were plans (there are not), there would be no resource to rewrite in any near future. :) |
| 07:24.12 | Hq` | it's not deprecated on harmattan |
| 07:32.39 | gri | henper: You also might take a look here: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/meegotouchhome-nokia/class_m_event_feed.html?tab=0 |
| 07:32.57 | gri | And there are also notifacation classes developed by nullpointer (group or guy?) |
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| 07:33.52 | gri | (if you're not using meegotouch of course) |
| 07:34.03 | khertan1 | Morning |
| 07:34.42 | khertan1 | someone know if there is already a font selection dialog made in qml ? i didn't want to reinvent the wheel |
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| 07:40.16 | henper | big thanks to you all! this should get me started :) |
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| 08:06.45 | henper | when i try to build libmeegotouch (to use MNotification) i get this error: You are building a 64-bit application, but using a 32-bit version of Qt. Check your build configuration. |
| 08:06.57 | henper | how can i force it to build in 32bit? |
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| 08:10.42 | djszapi | henper: make sure "-m32" is passed to gcc? "QMAKE_CXXFLAGS += -m32" in the pro file might help |
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| 08:17.15 | henper | still the same :( |
| 08:18.33 | khertan1 | n950 form factor is so good that it s even didn't need any car holder for navigation : https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-WXU2FUR7b74/TnhJf0Z70CI/AAAAAAAAAzw/E-UKPcD3OYs/s1152/IMG_0952.JPG |
| 08:19.02 | mece | hehe I put mine in the middle of the dashboard, works very well there too :D |
| 08:19.20 | macmaN_ | lolz, thats nice. i bought a n8 car holder, it fits n950 perfectly. |
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| 08:21.19 | djszapi | khertan1: hehe :) |
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| 08:21.38 | mece | really liking the new fw on N950 now that I have got most stuff to work |
| 08:21.48 | macmaN_ | same |
| 08:22.10 | mece | installing stuff from ovi atm. |
| 08:22.26 | mece | and I absolutely love swipe manager! |
| 08:22.47 | djszapi | oh the world changes since yesterday, when the fw was everything but nice ? :) |
| 08:23.19 | mece | djszapi, aegis must burn in hell |
| 08:23.37 | mece | djszapi, if that's what you're referring to. |
| 08:24.52 | mece | djszapi, I never said I didn't like the new firmware. I didn't like losing my contacts tho. things seem to work better after a second reflash though. It was the backup restore that messed it up apparently. |
| 08:25.08 | RST38h | Well, moo all |
| 08:25.45 | macmaN_ | moo cow rst |
| 08:25.48 | mece | djszapi, are you using the same firmware btw? |
| 08:26.20 | mece | 34-2 |
| 08:27.15 | djszapi | no, I need gtalk. |
| 08:27.20 | mece | as do I |
| 08:27.42 | mece | what's the package called? |
| 08:29.07 | djszapi | mece: wasn't the guy you yesterday who had not even the slightest idea what a security framework is good for and asking me and I tried to explain it to you ? Please do not start this again and again up, it is so tiring for both of us. I know windows, android, maemo, meego security experts should burn since they all follow the aegis principles nowadays, but it is not really nice to hear really. On the other hand, people were actually complaining yesterday |
| 08:33.28 | RST38h | Oh, the djszapi guy is proselytizing again... |
| 08:34.08 | RST38h | mece: Let us troll him again! =) |
| 08:35.42 | *** join/#harmattan gri (~gri@agsb-4d048f12.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 08:35.49 | mece | no |
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| 08:44.13 | gri | Anyone knows a sparql browser which can read the tracker-store.journal? Otherwise my contacts may be lost :/ |
| 08:44.55 | macmaN_ | ok well this is kinda strange, my n950 seems to have just hung sitting on the desk |
| 08:45.01 | macmaN_ | with standby screen on |
| 08:45.37 | macmaN_ | hm. starting to open hwkbd seems to have taken it out of the funk |
| 08:46.04 | djszapi | gri: afaik there is no journal anymore |
| 08:46.15 | macmaN_ | there needs to be a Clean button next to Refresh on news screen |
| 08:46.50 | gri | djszapi: That's why the backup did not rewrite my contacts ... but getting them out with a text editor is too much work for me :) |
| 08:47.04 | djszapi | gri: use my command |
| 08:47.09 | gri | which is? |
| 08:47.12 | djszapi | wikipage |
| 08:49.55 | gri | djszapi: Since I only have the beta1 backup of my contacts, I can't use vcf import |
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| 08:52.30 | djszapi | gri: not exporting the contact to desktop PC for backup is a really bad idea |
| 08:53.00 | gri | djszapi: Yep |
| 08:53.08 | djszapi | but at any rate, you learned the lesson ;) |
| 08:53.17 | gri | djszapi: Is there a download link for the old beta? |
| 08:54.02 | alterego | Has anyone added at least pasting to meego terminal? |
| 08:54.58 | kulve | is there meego terminal in the new fw? I couldn't find it.. |
| 08:55.31 | djszapi | kimju: I figured out the harmattan scheduler kernel details |
| 08:56.31 | alterego | kulve you need to enable dev mode |
| 08:56.39 | khertan1 | kulve: is there meego terminal in the new fw? I couldn't find it.. <<<< enable devel mode |
| 08:56.51 | kimju | djszapi, ok, what was the problem? |
| 08:57.27 | kulve | I have the developer mode in settings->security set on already |
| 08:57.44 | djszapi | kimju It is that your application is reclassified to run in "applications" cgroups subdomain, and as such: RT CPU time can not be assigned to. However scheduling policy change works fine, if your task is placed into the cgroups root partition (if the process is classified as a system one from the beginning). You can also check it out from the kernel source if you are interested in the details (grep linux/kernel/sched.c for rt_runtime_us to get the answer |
| 08:58.03 | khertan1 | kulve unactivate and activate it again :) |
| 08:58.06 | khertan1 | :) |
| 08:58.10 | kulve | I guess the backup restored the developer mode but it's not the same thing as .. yes, doing that now :) |
| 08:58.19 | djszapi | kimju What I have just done to make it work is this: 1) Add sleep(10) before scheduling policy change 2) Run this from script for instance: echo `pidoff myapp` > /syspart/tasks You can not have RT tasks for applications on Dali by default, that is done deliberately. |
| 08:58.28 | alterego | It needs to download the tools |
| 08:58.33 | djszapi | *Dali = N950 :p |
| 08:59.09 | kulve | although I guess it would be nice to be able to download the terminal from the store without enabling the developer mode. It's just an application after all.. |
| 08:59.25 | RST38h | khertan: terminal gets installed when you enable developer mode |
| 08:59.36 | RST38h | khertan: ditto for ssh |
| 08:59.45 | RST38h | khertan: htop and nano you install manually with apt-get |
| 09:00.42 | khertan1 | RST38h: yes i know |
| 09:00.55 | khertan1 | RST38h: you didn't need to install it manually |
| 09:01.04 | khertan1 | install is possible too with the gui |
| 09:01.27 | RST38h | How? |
| 09:01.35 | RST38h | has not seen anything that looks like HAM yet |
| 09:01.46 | khertan1 | htop is in x11 utilities or utilities developper package |
| 09:02.08 | khertan1 | where you have a list of package in devel panel |
| 09:02.15 | khertan1 | just need to click on install button |
| 09:02.23 | kulve | cut'n'paste is next thing I would like to have in the terminal :) |
| 09:02.27 | RST38h | ah |
| 09:02.37 | RST38h | has not seen devel panel with a list of packages |
| 09:02.55 | RST38h | kulve: there is no cut&paste? (have not tried yet) |
| 09:02.57 | khertan1 | (install didn't works the first four time, but works the fiveth time :) ) |
| 09:03.44 | kulve | RST38h: no, it changes toolbars in the new fw (and color scheme in the old fw). AFAIK at least.. |
| 09:04.51 | kulve | swipe, that is |
| 09:05.06 | RST38h | mghm |
| 09:06.55 | djszapi | gri: I am afraid, link to old beta would not really be usable since it seems 34-2 -> 22-6 downgrade is not possible. |
| 09:07.52 | RST38h | kulve: mgedmin has been compiling terminal .debs out of git, he may know something about cut&paste there |
| 09:08.33 | gri | djszapi: Yay, this means no aegis-dev mode, no contacts :) Should have stayed with my old version |
| 09:08.58 | gri | and still no commhistoryd in scratchbox, wohoo |
| 09:09.08 | djszapi | gri: no, you should have followed my export instructions (I think I told it more times) |
| 09:09.41 | djszapi | gri: aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec is gone, but the QtCreator is pretty good for making a skeleton package anyways (I have been told so here since I do not use that myself) |
| 09:10.53 | gri | djszapi: How do you test on device? Is there a way to create the package and deploy it to the device and start debugging from the scratchbox? |
| 09:11.21 | gri | QtCreator and Madde need about 2 oder 3 minutes from deploy to actual program start when creating a package |
| 09:11.39 | gri | also madde is missing most libraries which need to be copied from scratchbox |
| 09:11.41 | djszapi | sounds a bug against QtCreator ? |
| 09:12.01 | gri | QtCreator also can't create packages with custom debian folders (which I have) |
| 09:12.04 | djszapi | as for me, I have a skeleton package, and I will use that if I ever use the public image (doubt that) |
| 09:13.04 | gri | scratchbox (the public one) is missing libraries, so development around messaging is a bit complicated |
| 09:13.38 | djszapi | Can you clarify it please ? I am not getting it in details. |
| 09:14.03 | gri | I need commhistoryd (commhistory-daemon) which is not available in the scratchbox |
| 09:14.20 | djszapi | which is quite ok. |
| 09:14.24 | gri | and it even can't be created since it's having dependencies which are also not available in the scratchbox |
| 09:14.52 | djszapi | well, you should really never ever test most of the apps in scratchbox. |
| 09:15.11 | gri | I don't want to test, I want to develop |
| 09:15.11 | djszapi | that is really not the scope of scratchbox for this. |
| 09:15.19 | gri | in fremantle this worked fine |
| 09:15.52 | djszapi | sorry, I do not understand what "this" means. Seems, I still need more information. |
| 09:15.56 | vladest | hi |
| 09:16.11 | vladest | who knows, wht the phrase "QGLWindowSurface: Flushing to native child widget, may lead to significant performance loss" means? |
| 09:16.43 | djszapi | vladest: you can also ask it on #qt |
| 09:16.46 | gri | djszapi: This is "using communication history without device" |
| 09:17.07 | djszapi | I had the impression that is a runtime dependency... |
| 09:17.21 | MohammadAG | djszapi, you can get aegis-developer-mode working with the right methods |
| 09:17.25 | MohammadAG | it's certainly not gone ;) |
| 09:17.35 | vladest | djszapi: I can see this only on n950. on e7 there is no such debug output on same code |
| 09:17.41 | djszapi | MohammadAG: oh ? |
| 09:17.43 | gri | MohammadAG: This would be great |
| 09:18.26 | vladest | MohammadAG: hi. did you run dmesg already? |
| 09:19.40 | djszapi | MohammadAG: "djszapi, you can get aegis-developer-mode working with the right methods - it's certainly not gone ;)" -> please bring real meaning into this. |
| 09:19.52 | trx | vladest its something about graphics system, it(you) failed to create GL based view, so it will use eg. Raster to draw |
| 09:20.05 | trx | i am not sure tho.. |
| 09:20.34 | trx | there is something about it in the api, google that message |
| 09:21.27 | MohammadAG | djszapi, RM680-34-2_PR_RM680:~# aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec |
| 09:21.27 | MohammadAG | RM680-34-2_PR_RM680:~# |
| 09:22.19 | djszapi | what is the meaning of this ? |
| 09:22.22 | djszapi | I still fail to see... |
| 09:22.26 | gri | No error message |
| 09:22.28 | djszapi | obviously, we ran the same command :D :D |
| 09:22.35 | djszapi | so please please provide /proper/ information |
| 09:23.00 | gri | If he provides it, you'll "fix" it in the next release? :P |
| 09:23.16 | djszapi | gri: I am not making decisions about it. That is the program manager. |
| 09:23.25 | djszapi | gri: and why fix something which can be worked ? |
| 09:23.45 | djszapi | vladest: are you sure you do not have a native widget in a native widget ? |
| 09:23.50 | gri | djszapi: Because someone decides we don't need it? |
| 09:24.00 | alterego | Is anyone working on a custom kernel? |
| 09:24.04 | djszapi | vladest: it happens e.g. when you call winId() on one of your widgets if the widget is no toplevel widget |
| 09:24.26 | djszapi | gri: where did you get that bullshit from ? |
| 09:24.40 | djszapi | gri: nobody decided afaik that way at all ... |
| 09:24.52 | gri | djszapi: I only interpreted your answer to dmesg |
| 09:24.53 | djszapi | it might be just a bug, no need to guess the worst ever about developers immediately.. |
| 09:25.22 | djszapi | gri: I think you know dmesg != aegis-developer-mode ;) |
| 09:25.22 | vladest | it seems the problem with mixing ogl graphicsview with qwidget's |
| 09:25.40 | djszapi | gri: so do not mis-interpret anything, pleeease |
| 09:25.40 | hiemanshu | w00t, new image wont flash for me |
| 09:25.47 | *** join/#harmattan kkito (50a9f67c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.169.246.124) |
| 09:25.52 | vladest | found same question in logs of the channell :) |
| 09:25.55 | kkito | hello |
| 09:25.58 | trx | [11:24] <djszapi> vladest: are you sure you do not have a native widget in a native widget ? <- why would this generate warnings? |
| 09:26.06 | hiemanshu | http://paste.kde.org/124351/ |
| 09:26.22 | djszapi | trx: try out what I said, and you will see. |
| 09:27.05 | vladest | its strange there is no problems with this on symbian |
| 09:27.55 | hiemanshu | djszapi: anything you can do help with 'Image wont flash issues' http://paste.kde.org/124351/ |
| 09:28.39 | djszapi | well, if checksum is fine, you followed the general instructions, phonet is loaded, no real clue |
| 09:28.48 | djszapi | apol could not manage it yesterday either, just from Windows. |
| 09:31.14 | vladest | djszapi: so, qwidgetless app can improve the situation? |
| 09:31.25 | djszapi | hiemanshu: I meant to say: phonet is not loaded*, you tried older flasher, you tried manually, etc... |
| 09:32.03 | hiemanshu | djszapi: I have a 'while true; do sudo /sbin/modprobe -r cdc_phonet; done' running at all times in another terminal |
| 09:32.31 | *** join/#harmattan TheBootroo (53914532@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.145.69.50) |
| 09:32.32 | TheBootroo | hello |
| 09:32.53 | TheBootroo | i did the update to beta2 but i don't find how to get root |
| 09:32.59 | TheBootroo | i installed developer tools |
| 09:33.04 | djszapi | vladest: it is not about qwidgets. it is about native qwidgets. a native qwidget is a widget which is backed up by an actual X window. normally this only happens for the toplevel widget which is your window then |
| 09:33.07 | TheBootroo | i have the terminal |
| 09:33.15 | TheBootroo | but i can't use dpkg -i |
| 09:33.25 | djszapi | vladest: in some cases qt has to create a native window for qwidget with a parent. this is what this warning is about IIRC. |
| 09:33.43 | MohammadAG | TheBootroo, same way as always |
| 09:33.44 | MohammadAG | devel-su |
| 09:34.01 | TheBootroo | MohammadAG: thkx |
| 09:34.04 | djszapi | vladest: it happens e.g. if you call winId() instead of effectiveWinId() on a child widget |
| 09:34.16 | TheBootroo | what is the password ? |
| 09:34.28 | djszapi | rootme |
| 09:34.36 | TheBootroo | yay |
| 09:34.38 | TheBootroo | thx |
| 09:34.57 | TheBootroo | changed |
| 09:34.59 | TheBootroo | :D |
| 09:35.14 | *** join/#harmattan zarlino (~zarlino@dynamic-adsl-94-37-104-245.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 09:35.16 | vladest | djszapi: so, root qmainwindow might be a problem |
| 09:36.52 | *** join/#harmattan mzanetti_work (u2436@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fwcfiululswccgho) |
| 09:37.16 | djszapi | vladest: not sure but might be. no idea what qmainwindow does internally but i am not sure if it does the right thing on something like harmattan |
| 09:37.55 | vladest | djszapi: thanks. it seems I need some code redesign |
| 09:38.09 | djszapi | ui code, yes |
| 09:38.38 | mzanetti_work | I just noticed that QDesktopServices::storageLocation() gives the wrong paths on Harmattan. Anyone knows what the correct way to get those directories is? |
| 09:38.46 | vladest | hope QGraphicsView/Scene will do the trick |
| 09:38.56 | hiemanshu | so how do I contact about not being able to flash phones? |
| 09:39.06 | *** join/#harmattan vitaminj (~vitaminj@132.185.237.133) |
| 09:39.24 | djszapi | mzanetti_work: interesting, it gives the proper one here. |
| 09:39.40 | mzanetti_work | ther "MyDocs" is missing... |
| 09:39.52 | djszapi | hiemanshu: try another distro, or windows...what I would do if it is desperate... |
| 09:40.06 | djszapi | mzanetti_work: ahhh you call that false, ok yes, for sure. |
| 09:40.31 | mzanetti_work | djszapi: ? |
| 09:40.39 | TheBootroo | is it me or the theme has slightly changed in beta 2 ? darker toolbar and all ... |
| 09:40.50 | hiemanshu | djszapi: I have the same error as the old flasher, bb5_rdc_cert read failed |
| 09:40.59 | alterego | nice, new meego terminal, just needs c&p :) |
| 09:41.17 | TheBootroo | alterego: it has it |
| 09:41.23 | alterego | how? |
| 09:41.29 | TheBootroo | oh and nokia pure too |
| 09:41.32 | djszapi | mzanetti_work: I would think that is normal under the current circumstances, the Qt docs does not say anything Harmattan specific either, just Symbian |
| 09:42.05 | TheBootroo | alterego: just select text, a toolbar appears, click copy, then tap another text field, a toolbar appears with paste button |
| 09:42.46 | alterego | TheBootroo: can't seem to, maybe it's the screen session. |
| 09:43.36 | alterego | Hrm, can't seem to in normal terminal window either |
| 09:43.38 | henper | i got the MNotification working now! thanks. is it possible to fire a notification at a specific timestamp? |
| 09:43.53 | vitaminj | mece: (and anyone else having grief) I worked out the best way to restore as much as possible from an old fw backup last night, and wiki'd it here: http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950#Migrating_from_beta_1_to_beta_2 |
| 09:43.56 | alterego | henper: wrap timed? |
| 09:44.07 | *** join/#harmattan slaine (~slaine@84.203.137.218) |
| 09:45.46 | mzanetti_work | djszapi: don't really understand... The MusicLocation on the device is /home/user/MyDocs/Music but QDesktopServices::storageLocation(MusicLocation) gives me /home/user/Music... This doesn't seem right to me... |
| 09:46.06 | mzanetti_work | djszapi: Not sure what you mean with "under the current circumstances" |
| 09:46.11 | djszapi | mzanetti_work: well, does the Qt documentation mention anything special apart from Symbian ? |
| 09:46.19 | djszapi | I do not see anything like that, so it is expected. |
| 09:46.28 | djszapi | if they would return different one, they would document it that way. |
| 09:46.36 | MohammadAG | mzanetti_work, that's the actual correct directory as set by standard guidelines |
| 09:46.41 | MohammadAG | sadly harmattan doesn't use it |
| 09:47.20 | mzanetti_work | djszapi: The docs say that it returns the systems directory where files of "type" belong. Which is clearly wrong in this case |
| 09:47.34 | mzanetti_work | djszapi: IMO a bug |
| 09:48.13 | MohammadAG | it's a simple fix really |
| 09:48.15 | djszapi | mzanetti_work: not sure what your point is. Everybody knows it is a bug |
| 09:48.24 | MohammadAG | but it has to be fixed in Qt |
| 09:48.30 | djszapi | what I was referring to is that it is expected since they did not work on it yet |
| 09:48.40 | alterego | TheBootroo: nope, doesn't work for me, don't like the loss of colour changing either :( |
| 09:48.54 | djszapi | of course, returning the wrong address is wrong ,but expected without investigation... |
| 09:49.06 | djszapi | feel free to patch Qt ;) |
| 09:49.27 | MohammadAG | and get the new package rejected by aegis |
| 09:51.04 | alterego | well at least it's accessible via the menu. |
| 09:51.34 | djszapi | mzanetti_work: ./src/gui/util/qdesktopservices_{mac,win,x11,s60}.cpp what I can see there only anyways |
| 09:53.20 | djszapi | mzanetti_work: 218 case MusicLocation: |
| 09:53.20 | djszapi | 219 path = QDir::homePath() + QLatin1String("/Music"); |
| 09:53.31 | djszapi | that is what you need modify |
| 09:55.30 | mzanetti_work | djszapi: oh... thanks... that helps a lot |
| 09:56.06 | djszapi | mzanetti_work: though, you would probably not get it in before Qt5 which might not available on Harmattan, so chicken-egg issue, but feel free to discuss it on #qt-labs |
| 09:58.33 | gri | Angry Birds segfaults when running under develsh :) |
| 10:05.13 | artemma | achipa: for the record. When you are into mood for timed research, I can meet virtually at any place and any time. Coffee is on me (but not today on the meegofi gathering :( ) |
| 10:05.42 | gri | And push the nokia-own push notification example is still not working, even on beta2 fw |
| 10:05.45 | achipa | ok, have plenty of stuff at work so prolly will not have too much time(d) today :( |
| 10:06.17 | artemma | achipa: any time includes today, tomorrow, day after tomorrow, etc :) |
| 10:07.12 | artemma | hey, achipa, what if I craft a simple compilable example for you that just doesn't work (and maybe a similar one that successfully simulates a calendar event). Would it help you with a quickstart? |
| 10:07.37 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 10:08.01 | *** join/#harmattan zarlino (~zarlino@dynamic-adsl-94-37-104-245.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 10:09.45 | vladest | ok, reworked test app from qmainwindow to qgraphicsview but no luck. still same: |
| 10:09.55 | mece | vitaminj, cool, thanks. I've gotten most things working now though. |
| 10:10.14 | vladest | QGLWindowSurface: Using plain widget as window surface QGLWindowSurface(0x75660) |
| 10:10.15 | vladest | hijackWindow() context created for QWidget(0x54850) 2 |
| 10:10.17 | vladest | QGLWindowSurface: Flushing to native child widget, may lead to significant performance loss |
| 10:10.36 | vladest | weird that there is no any qwidget around |
| 10:12.22 | *** part/#harmattan kontio (kontio@unaffiliated/kontio) |
| 10:15.00 | *** join/#harmattan zarlino (~zarlino@dynamic-adsl-94-37-104-245.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 10:15.33 | elpuri | vladest: QGraphicsView inherits from QWidget |
| 10:17.06 | gri | vladest: Did you run your application once with "-graphicssystem opengl" or even "meego" instead of opengl? |
| 10:22.13 | khertan1 | did you have also an SIM Service application ? |
| 10:22.41 | khertan1 | with the name of your operator ? |
| 10:22.44 | mece | is there a way to set the name of the service with mc-tool? name of the gtalk service show up empty |
| 10:22.59 | khertan1 | gtalk ? |
| 10:23.16 | mece | khertan1, http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950#GTalk_account_setup |
| 10:23.23 | khertan1 | mece: thx :) |
| 10:25.53 | frals | <3 aegis |
| 10:25.57 | frals | obscure bugs? blame aegis! |
| 10:26.10 | frals | hm, this was the wrong window. bah :p |
| 10:26.34 | mece | hahahaha |
| 10:28.04 | frals | hm, whats this mc-tool? |
| 10:28.21 | achipa | some wannae-musician accessory |
| 10:28.25 | frals | and is gabble generic xmpp plugin? would be neat if it works with my own xmpp server... |
| 10:28.27 | Stskeeps | telepathy mission control |
| 10:28.33 | frals | achipa: :D |
| 10:29.47 | hiemanshu | so how do I contact about my device unable to flash and failing with bb5_rdc_cert_read failed ? |
| 10:29.51 | hiemanshu | achipa, Stskeeps ^ |
| 10:29.57 | Stskeeps | hiemanshu: do a cold flash |
| 10:30.24 | achipa | what he says ^ |
| 10:30.26 | hiemanshu | k trying cold flash |
| 10:32.44 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: sudo ./flasher --erase-user-data=secure -c -fF img.bin -Femmc.bin will do it? |
| 10:32.54 | frals | uh |
| 10:33.16 | frals | ah right, images extracted from the OCF |
| 10:33.19 | Stskeeps | hiemanshu: right |
| 10:33.48 | Stskeeps | achipa: who do we have to blame for removing the fiasco unpack functionality from flasher anyway? |
| 10:33.51 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 10:34.29 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: http://paste.kde.org/124387/ failing :( |
| 10:34.46 | achipa | you can blame me for the removal of the howtos which ere guaranteed to brick your device, but not the fiasco unpack - no siree, that's not me |
| 10:35.12 | Stskeeps | hiemanshu: host machine == ? |
| 10:35.17 | achipa | and we all know flasher is... special |
| 10:35.26 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: openSuSE 11.4 |
| 10:35.29 | Stskeeps | hiemanshu: 64 or 32? |
| 10:35.41 | hiemanshu | 64 64 |
| 10:35.52 | hiemanshu | err |
| 10:36.14 | frals | flasher is awesome |
| 10:36.23 | hiemanshu | file flasher; \flasher: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.15, stripped |
| 10:36.32 | Stskeeps | hiemanshu: can you try 32 variant by chance? |
| 10:36.46 | frals | uh |
| 10:37.00 | hiemanshu | hmm, I have no 32 bit distro around here, all my machines are 64 :/ |
| 10:37.02 | frals | i havent cold flashed my device for a while, but shouldnt it fill in the HWID and stuff there? |
| 10:38.37 | Stskeeps | hiemanshu: livecd? |
| 10:39.22 | tomma | something wrong with oneclickflasher on 64bit linux? |
| 10:39.58 | khertan1 | tomma: except crappy server for download which truncate sometime the file on some mirror |
| 10:40.00 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: lemme check if I have an handy |
| 10:40.04 | khertan1 | i didn't have any problem |
| 10:40.30 | tomma | that was first thing on my mind but still problems after 3 download =/ |
| 10:41.07 | khertan1 | yeah i retry 20 times without success, for finnaly using a proxy to avoid their cache proximity mirror |
| 10:41.54 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: the only 32 bit one is openSuSE 10.3 :/ |
| 10:42.01 | khertan1 | you got a file of 488Mb, isn't it ? |
| 10:44.41 | kimju | is there someone here who could get the cdn refreshed, so all nodes would have the full file, not the truncated one? |
| 10:46.42 | hiemanshu | kimju: there are other mirrors for it too :P |
| 10:46.56 | hiemanshu | kimju: or override /etc/hosts file |
| 10:47.04 | kimju | well, I got the file already yesterday. |
| 10:47.08 | hiemanshu | ah |
| 10:48.23 | kimju | but still would be nice if the official download site would work :) |
| 10:48.59 | hiemanshu | some mirrors work, some dont yeah |
| 10:53.03 | *** join/#harmattan khertan_ (~quassel@AAmiens-553-1-169-107.w92-155.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:54.47 | mece | oo skype, nice :) |
| 10:55.00 | artemma | skype? |
| 10:55.05 | artemma | for N950? |
| 10:55.10 | artemma | how do you get it? |
| 10:55.50 | mece | trial and error :) |
| 10:56.13 | Stskeeps | sleeping with nokia employees until you found someone willing to give the debs to you? |
| 10:56.58 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: would trying a 32 bit kernel make a difference, or download a distro livecd? |
| 10:57.11 | Stskeeps | hiemanshu: distro livecd is probbly more likely |
| 10:57.29 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: downloading Damn Small Linux then D |
| 10:57.31 | hiemanshu | :D |
| 10:59.47 | *** join/#harmattan arcean (~Arcean@aact21.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 11:00.03 | vladest | gri: Using the meego graphics system |
| 11:01.16 | vitaminj | mece: are you meddling with remote device access by any chance? |
| 11:10.57 | mece | vitaminj, no haven't tried that |
| 11:11.05 | mece | http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950#GTalk_and_Skype_account_setup |
| 11:11.24 | TheBootroo | OMG |
| 11:11.26 | TheBootroo | SKype |
| 11:11.29 | TheBootroo | i try |
| 11:13.01 | DocScrutinizer | (<hiemanshu> file flasher; \flasher: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.15, stripped) DUH, how's OCF going to work on 32bit engines when the flasher is a 64bit executable |
| 11:13.19 | mece | this device just got a whole lot more usable for me :) |
| 11:13.49 | mece | TheBootroo, no ui to initiate skype calls etc. It's just the chat. Still it's what I use the most :) |
| 11:14.02 | TheBootroo | mece: contacts import too ? |
| 11:14.21 | mece | hmm.. I guess so. |
| 11:14.23 | mece | yes |
| 11:15.33 | DocScrutinizer | mece: I'd be terribly interested in knowing filetype of any skype related executable stuff. |
| 11:16.13 | *** join/#harmattan frinring (~kossebau@85.183.48.167) |
| 11:16.56 | DocScrutinizer | the "genuine" skype executable is a self-decrypting abomination. I'd not at all be surprised if skype devels used aegis for decrypting skype executables on HARM |
| 11:17.31 | DocScrutinizer | after all that's the main and only true purpose of aegis |
| 11:17.51 | mece | DocScrutinizer, well it's a telepathy plugin |
| 11:18.03 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, doesn't matter |
| 11:18.05 | mece | DocScrutinizer, the skype ui is not there afaict |
| 11:18.19 | w00t | the UI is there, if you have an accounts plugin for it |
| 11:18.33 | DocScrutinizer | there has to be the whole auth stack skype is using anyway |
| 11:18.33 | mece | w00t, well yeah, but we don't obviously. |
| 11:18.46 | w00t | mece: perhaps, but you could try write one :) |
| 11:19.10 | mece | w00t, meh. Too complicated for me. |
| 11:19.15 | ajalkane | wow, got mem low warning on new fw. Never saw one in earlier |
| 11:19.40 | mece | w00t, you don't think we'll be getting official skype plugin for n950? |
| 11:19.50 | DocScrutinizer | and auth is one of the thinks skype is very concerned about to keep it obfuscated and "secure" and "safe" |
| 11:19.57 | w00t | mece: no idea |
| 11:19.58 | DocScrutinizer | so in |
| 11:19.59 | tomma | seems like downloading oneclickflasher works if you use chinese proxy... |
| 11:20.00 | DocScrutinizer | ~aegis |
| 11:20.00 | infobot | i guess aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 11:20.05 | w00t | mece: but it'd enable use of it right now |
| 11:20.33 | DocScrutinizer | the "make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment." part is exactly applying to skype |
| 11:20.34 | mece | w00t, well I guess there are some people with skills to pull that off. Unfortunately I'm not one of them |
| 11:20.49 | mece | DocScrutinizer, like N900 :D |
| 11:21.16 | vitaminj | ajalkane: I got that too, but in the maps app downloading offline maps. I just assumed it was being stupid and doing the unzip in memory |
| 11:22.00 | DocScrutinizer | if not even skype is actually *using* the main function of aegis which is "make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment."" - HELL why T F we need aegis then at all? |
| 11:22.51 | *** join/#harmattan apol (~apol@84.78.178.63) |
| 11:23.03 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: that is on a 64 bit system, I am download a 32 bit distro and will use the 32 bit flasher, see the error message :P |
| 11:23.30 | DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: where from is that 64bit flasher? |
| 11:23.45 | DocScrutinizer | and where from is that 32bit flasher? |
| 11:23.46 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: from the OCF |
| 11:24.11 | vladest | hmm. QCameraViewfinder takes 3 times cpu less then qgraphicsvideoitem |
| 11:24.14 | DocScrutinizer | duh, so OCF comes with two flavours of flasher binary? |
| 11:24.27 | hiemanshu | yup ofc :P |
| 11:24.34 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 11:25.30 | artemma | <stupud-question-about-aegis> If it doesn't allow random binaries to be run, why can I run files compiled by QtCreator? I didn't fill any manifest and can't see one in the build dirs </stupid-question-about-aegis> |
| 11:25.33 | DocScrutinizer | does a >> less Linux_OCF_34-2_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin << |
| 11:25.51 | mece | artemma, it creates a deb and installs it |
| 11:25.59 | mece | lol DocScrutinizer |
| 11:26.07 | DocScrutinizer | lolwut? |
| 11:26.18 | MohammadAG | anyone using the N9 on RDA? |
| 11:26.26 | artemma | mece, I still don't see any manifest inside the build dir (that to my understanding is used for building deb) |
| 11:26.27 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, Aegis checks if skyhost is signed and such |
| 11:26.30 | MohammadAG | if you replace it it won't work |
| 11:26.34 | MohammadAG | of course, that's pointless |
| 11:26.54 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: well, that's not been the question though |
| 11:27.10 | mece | artemma, tbh i have no idea about that. Seems to work fine tho. |
| 11:27.11 | ajalkane | vitaminj: the funny thing is, I had only like dozen windows open. Well, have to check later what takes up the mem |
| 11:28.17 | artemma | My real question is whether I need to put special care if I want my binaries to be started by another processes (by timed daemon to be precise). I have a suspicion that it may be aegis restrictions that don't allow my binary to be started |
| 11:29.01 | vitaminj | artemma: it auto creates one and packages it in the deb. if you look at the build log you can see when it does it. it looks through your source to guess what permissions you might need. you can create a file to overwrite the auto-generated one if you see fit |
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| 11:29.17 | artemma | vitaminj: thx |
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| 11:47.52 | DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/131169/ |
| 11:50.52 | DocScrutinizer | dang ;-P |
| 11:52.20 | snowpong | strange the N950 beta2 firmware seems corrupt for linux (I get EOF when extracting). Anyone downloaded a working version? What is the filesize? |
| 11:53.12 | SpeedEvil | for many |
| 11:53.12 | *** join/#harmattan fuz_ (nobody@vau75-10-88-164-23-88.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:53.37 | SpeedEvil | -rwxr-xr-x 1 user users 592272572 2011-09-19 14:51 Linux_OCF_34-2_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin |
| 11:54.02 | kimju | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:54.32 | DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/131172/ better |
| 11:54.38 | TheBootroo | snowpong: me |
| 11:54.44 | TheBootroo | linux 32 bits, fully working |
| 11:54.57 | SpeedEvil | Same sum as kimju |
| 11:55.44 | snowpong | TheBootroo: filesize if you still got the .bin there? |
| 11:55.54 | snowpong | kimju: thanks |
| 11:56.07 | snowpong | trying with wget instead of firefox |
| 11:56.07 | TheBootroo | 564,8 MB (592272572 bytes) |
| 11:56.39 | *** join/#harmattan ScriptRipper (~ScriptRip@opensuse/member/MartinMohring) |
| 11:58.04 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 11:59.13 | snowpong | Same result, right now if I DL from http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/db230178-aa63-4c73-ba7f-20930da13cad/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers.html with either wget/firefox I get size: 513552235 md5: 8975ef7f7c4c3bd4b76ba25a6505d0be |
| 12:00.15 | kimju | djszapi, hey, can you poke someone to refresh the firmware images on the content delivery network. some nodes are still giving truncated files |
| 12:00.31 | djszapi | kimju: nope, sorry |
| 12:00.52 | SpeedEvil | Do you know who the appropriate contact would be? |
| 12:02.59 | djszapi | mece: google and google-talk were removed on purpose, it cannot be put back |
| 12:03.40 | mece | djszapi, ok |
| 12:04.14 | TheBootroo | djszapi: but why ? (gg and gtlak ? |
| 12:04.17 | mece | djszapi, anty particular reason? |
| 12:04.28 | mece | s/anty/any/ |
| 12:04.41 | djszapi | mece: I cannot say, it is NDA, sorry. |
| 12:04.44 | mece | ok |
| 12:04.57 | eman | Did someone hear manage to get the new firmware installed using F15? The flasher would bomb out on flashing the images (erasing worked fine). In the end I had to use an old F11 box |
| 12:05.05 | eman | ergh s/hear/here/ |
| 12:05.27 | djszapi | eman: actually someone had told you yesterday :) |
| 12:05.45 | eman | djszapi: Yep, I just wanted to check what kernel version they were using... |
| 12:06.02 | eman | Anyway, all working after lots of mucking around |
| 12:06.16 | djszapi | arcean: ^ |
| 12:08.38 | macmaN_ | mece: thanks for the skype account writeup on wiki :> |
| 12:09.09 | MohammadAG | Skype UI from N9 works |
| 12:09.19 | macmaN_ | yep |
| 12:09.22 | macmaN_ | just enabled it |
| 12:09.23 | MohammadAG | no aegis hacks necessary |
| 12:09.27 | MohammadAG | macmaN_, no |
| 12:09.30 | MohammadAG | you used mc-tool |
| 12:09.34 | MohammadAG | I used the Accounts app :P |
| 12:09.38 | macmaN_ | oh, right right |
| 12:09.47 | macmaN_ | where did you get the pkgs again for that? |
| 12:09.56 | MohammadAG | packages? just scp's them from the N9 on RDA |
| 12:10.05 | MohammadAG | they're working again, reverse ssh is easy now |
| 12:10.36 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: still a no-go, same darned thing :/ |
| 12:10.44 | Stskeeps | hiemanshu: interesting |
| 12:10.47 | Stskeeps | hiemanshu: bad USB cable? |
| 12:11.00 | hiemanshu | nope, this has always worked before |
| 12:11.21 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: and I can flash the older 22-6 image just fine, the newer version of the 22-6 image wouldn't flash either, with the same error |
| 12:11.40 | macmaN_ | MohammadAG: ah right rightgood thinking |
| 12:12.10 | macmaN_ | but regarding mc-tool, how do i get the account not to be faceless |
| 12:12.40 | macmaN_ | fb has big Facebook and account name below it |
| 12:12.52 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: what do I do now? :/ |
| 12:12.57 | Stskeeps | hiemanshu: panic? |
| 12:13.00 | MohammadAG | http://i52.tinypic.com/11b20wn.jpg macmaN_ |
| 12:13.05 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: already am :P |
| 12:13.16 | macmaN_ | MohammadAG: ok thats gangsta |
| 12:13.40 | macmaN_ | what does mc-tool show <skypeacct> give you (skip the password) |
| 12:14.16 | macmaN_ | i dont think i am able to go fetching the package from the RDA right now |
| 12:14.31 | MohammadAG | password isn't shown |
| 12:14.47 | MohammadAG | Account: spirit/skype/mohammad96300 Normalized: mohammad9630 Enabled: enabled Icon: im-skype Connects: automatically Nickname: Moe Abu-Garbeyyeh Service: skype Automatic: available (2) Current: offline (1) Requested: available (2) (uint) CredentialsId = 8 (string) account = mohammad9630 |
| 12:15.50 | djszapi | hiemanshu: why don't you try out other distro, os ? |
| 12:16.07 | hiemanshu | djszapi: tried other distro, downloading the windows one to try that out |
| 12:16.42 | djszapi | windows worked oob for apol, but arch did not. |
| 12:16.50 | kkito | MohammadAG: is the N9 touchscreen working on rda? |
| 12:17.05 | MohammadAG | kkito, yes, they even had a notice about it |
| 12:17.17 | mece | MohammadAG, mine is the same, but now account is faceless, as macmaN_ said. |
| 12:17.17 | kkito | MohammadAG: :) |
| 12:17.19 | hiemanshu | MohammadAG: what was the notice? |
| 12:17.45 | macmaN_ | mc-tool approach also doesnt seem to integrate with contacts much |
| 12:17.59 | macmaN_ | perhaps the accounts ui does some extra tricks too |
| 12:18.14 | TheBootroo | MohammadAG: how can i get skype and gtalk ui from RDA ? |
| 12:18.23 | mece | macmaN_, yeah I think you need plugin to get the proper buttons in contacts |
| 12:18.49 | MohammadAG | mece, cause you don't have account-plugin-skype installed |
| 12:19.10 | hiemanshu | nice now the phone is constantly rebooting! |
| 12:19.12 | mece | MohammadAG, 's what I meant |
| 12:19.17 | MohammadAG | mece, you get a chat/call button combo + a button under that for calling to phone |
| 12:19.20 | mece | hiemanshu, how'd you manage that? |
| 12:19.48 | hiemanshu | mece: nokia did it, stupid flasher wouldn't flash, and phone wont turn off, no matter what I do :/ |
| 12:19.58 | kkito | MohammadAG: but are you able to download packages with apt-get on RDA or just retrieve the files one by one? |
| 12:20.09 | TheBootroo | MohammadAG: you mean nokia RDA has packages, not only binaries , |
| 12:20.34 | MohammadAG | kkito, cat the list file, cp files, cp back |
| 12:21.09 | *** join/#harmattan seif (~seiflotfy@ip-178-201-5-9.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 12:21.35 | TheBootroo | MohammadAG: can you edit the wiki with that ? |
| 12:21.48 | DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: press&hold power button for >10s |
| 12:21.48 | macmaN_ | ok took a look at the RDA system |
| 12:21.55 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: no dice |
| 12:21.58 | macmaN_ | i think i will take a shot at it later |
| 12:21.59 | DocScrutinizer | :-/ |
| 12:22.18 | leinir | *grumble* they still haven't fixed my local mirror ;) |
| 12:22.19 | macmaN_ | strange thing was somebody just sent me an sms but messages just disappear from Messages |
| 12:22.26 | DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: get a TorX4 and open it, remove battery ;-P |
| 12:22.38 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: its at home, and I am at work right now :P |
| 12:22.54 | DocScrutinizer | err wut? you're flashing it remote? |
| 12:23.19 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: the TorX4 :P |
| 12:23.34 | DocScrutinizer | meh XP |
| 12:23.52 | ajalkane | o |
| 12:24.09 | DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: expect killed battery then |
| 12:24.17 | hiemanshu | yup :/ |
| 12:24.25 | DocScrutinizer | battery is expensive |
| 12:25.16 | DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: you didn't follow achipa's unboxing HowTo |
| 12:25.17 | hiemanshu | meh, I am planning on returning the phone |
| 12:25.26 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: I did |
| 12:25.42 | macmaN_ | ok seriously, something is not right with Messages. sms just disappear for me. |
| 12:25.45 | DocScrutinizer | so the screws have to be "lost" now |
| 12:25.49 | macmaN_ | actually everything disappears. |
| 12:26.02 | hiemanshu | a better option would be to just leave it in a bar :P |
| 12:26.05 | macmaN_ | have you guys received texts on the phone yet? |
| 12:26.10 | macmaN_ | with new fw |
| 12:26.20 | special | macmaN_: I have |
| 12:26.53 | ajalkane | yeah just got one, doesnt disappear |
| 12:26.55 | macmaN_ | messages shows up in the list, then when i press it to view, screen is empty |
| 12:27.06 | macmaN_ | going back, message disappears from list view |
| 12:27.15 | macmaN_ | hrm |
| 12:29.11 | macmaN_ | Sep 20 15:24:32 (none) applifed[874]: Application 'com.nokia.Messaging' returned to prestarted state |
| 12:29.15 | macmaN_ | Sep 20 15:24:41 (none) applifed[874]: Application 'com.nokia.Messaging' released from prestarted state, count=3 |
| 12:29.19 | macmaN_ | Sep 20 15:24:43 (none) applifed[874]: Application 'com.nokia.contacts' released from prestarted state, count=1 |
| 12:29.23 | macmaN_ | Sep 20 15:24:53 (none) applifed[874]: Application 'com.nokia.contacts' returned to prestarted state |
| 12:29.26 | macmaN_ | what the heck are these |
| 12:29.41 | ajalkane | I'm getting low memory warnings but mem analyze shows mem usage below 60%. Oh well, doesn't matter much. Maybe reboot will solve the problem |
| 12:29.44 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: haha, I just ran the flasher and Charging battery, 0 % battery level (11 % required). Ctrl-c to exit :D |
| 12:29.52 | mece | my texts work just fine |
| 12:31.21 | macmaN_ | gonna reboot it |
| 12:31.27 | djszapi | hiemanshu: yes, flashing is energy consuming |
| 12:34.17 | macmaN_ | ouch! contacts database is completely empty after reboot. |
| 12:34.44 | macmaN_ | now messages are also staying |
| 12:34.49 | macmaN_ | oh man, this is bad |
| 12:35.35 | macmaN_ | now i def wish i had used cp instead of mv in my vcardconverter loop |
| 12:35.59 | macmaN_ | wonder if mc-tooling fubared it |
| 12:36.35 | *** join/#harmattan arcean_ (~Arcean@aacu71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 12:37.24 | alterego | MohammadAG: where did you get skype from? |
| 12:37.35 | macmaN_ | RDA device |
| 12:37.45 | hiemanshu | macmaN_: the ChangeLog for 34-2 was, everything is faster, but nothing works :P |
| 12:37.56 | RST38h | Hah! Qt Challenge strikes again! |
| 12:38.10 | RST38h | How many of these are in progress now? |
| 12:38.36 | artemma | BTW, does anybody know *any* feedback channel for Qt Challenge? |
| 12:38.58 | djszapi | qgil for instance |
| 12:39.01 | artemma | I have some questions about rules and the only way of contacting that I could imaging is to create a fake submission :) |
| 12:39.08 | artemma | oh, so he is related to it |
| 12:39.10 | macmaN_ | i did a tracker database reset today, could that have affected contacts? |
| 12:39.12 | artemma | good to know |
| 12:39.20 | artemma | djszapi: th |
| 12:39.20 | artemma | x |
| 12:39.25 | arcean_ | djszapi: pong |
| 12:39.29 | djszapi | artemma: he answered all my related questions |
| 12:39.48 | djszapi | arcean_: eman was asking about F15 kernel version |
| 12:39.51 | mece | we did open a channel to qtchallenge when the first email was sent out. I forget who it was tho. |
| 12:40.19 | arcean_ | eman: 2.6.40.4-5 |
| 12:44.49 | *** join/#harmattan berndhs (~berndhs@2604:8800:11b:1:21e:90ff:fe8f:8bee) |
| 12:48.07 | macmaN_ | crapity crap. i feel stupidish for losing my contacts after all and having no backup. |
| 12:48.47 | macmaN_ | guess i could call this a pruning experience |
| 12:50.51 | lizardo | has anyone tested the "unseal.ko" hack on the new Linux_OCF_34-2_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin ? does it still work? (still downloading the image so I could not verify myself) |
| 12:52.04 | kkito | lizardo: It seems that aegis relaxed mode is not working wih the new fw |
| 12:53.04 | lizardo | kkito: you mean, it does not provide the necessary "sys_module" capability for allowing to load kernel modules? |
| 12:57.17 | kkito | lizardo: i don't know, ask to djszapi or javispedro, they know more about aegis than me |
| 12:57.36 | eman | arcean_: Thanks. For some reason, the flash updater wouldn't work for me on two F15 systems using that same version. Had to use an old F11 box to flash phone. |
| 12:57.58 | djszapi | lizardo: no we do not ship that credential anymore, not even in ovi store. |
| 12:58.17 | djszapi | that was just an implementation bug in the old image. |
| 12:58.58 | lizardo | djszapi: thanks, I suspected that, just wanted to confirm the fix was on that image :) |
| 12:59.56 | kkito | djszapi: then it will be not possible to load "custom" kernel modules ? |
| 13:00.14 | djszapi | kkito: it is not possible, so was it not on N900 |
| 13:00.54 | kkito | :( |
| 13:01.19 | arcean_ | eman: IIRC it failed after erasing emmc? |
| 13:01.58 | RST38h | mece: You know there is a new qtchallenge now? :) |
| 13:02.25 | eman | arcean_: Yep. dmesg contained: usb_submit_urb returned -121 |
| 13:02.32 | lizardo | djszapi: well, it has been a nice hack to use locally, but I agree that for ovi store this cannot be allowed (because it is too easy to brick the device) |
| 13:02.35 | mece | RST38h, oh |
| 13:02.41 | kkito | djszapi: and booting the device with custom kernel? |
| 13:03.22 | mece | kkito, that's obviously doable. We have MeeGo CE |
| 13:03.43 | djszapi | lizardo: exactly, and the management rejected our developer signing opportunity which could ship that use case for you. |
| 13:03.50 | SpeedEvil | Yes, it was, if you compiled the module approprtely djszapi - http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide |
| 13:03.56 | djszapi | kkito: of course, you can boot your own kernel, I even gave so many hints previously. |
| 13:04.25 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: :D :D :D |
| 13:04.35 | djszapi | you can do the same with Harmattan with /no/ issue as I said couple of times :) |
| 13:04.59 | arcean_ | eman: I have no idea, but it sounds like a bug in libusb |
| 13:05.33 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: Compiling a module, not the new kernel |
| 13:05.49 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: It was possible to compile a module and install it to stock kernel on n900, as I understand it. |
| 13:05.56 | mece | heh I restored my pictures and videos to the device and damn, there were a lot of them it turns out :D |
| 13:06.04 | SpeedEvil | See above page. It's possible above page may be misleading, of course. |
| 13:06.57 | lardman | hmm, anyone else seeing updates? |
| 13:06.58 | djszapi | mmm, reittiopas application would be nice for N9 in case of Finnish people. |
| 13:07.33 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: you can compile your stuff and you can make your own kernel |
| 13:07.47 | djszapi | the modification is fairly simple and actually trivial. |
| 13:08.44 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: I was addressing the 'you can't load modules on n900 comment of yours earlier. |
| 13:08.52 | SpeedEvil | (I may have misinterpreted you) |
| 13:09.31 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: well, that point is that you cannot have it without own kernel version after all |
| 13:09.50 | djszapi | and it is really the same for Harmattan, except that (since it has a security framework), it requires minor modification. |
| 13:10.03 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: As I understand it, it was possible on n900/freemantle. |
| 13:10.15 | djszapi | so why different power kernel version then ? |
| 13:11.00 | SpeedEvil | Because the dev chose to do that - and some bits - oveclocking? - can't be added with modules. |
| 13:11.09 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: http://fpaste.org/Eoq6/ interesting :P |
| 13:11.17 | SpeedEvil | Some things normally - on a desktop or any system - can be added, some require a new kernel. |
| 13:11.29 | Stskeeps | hiemanshu: add a -c to that |
| 13:11.42 | SpeedEvil | (or evil hacks to patch the old kernel, which are not generally sane) |
| 13:12.13 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: it would not really work here since you need to modify the kernel itself, since aegis is not module. |
| 13:12.38 | ajalkane | Great! Shell update brought arrows to vkb and multiple windows! |
| 13:12.45 | djszapi | but if I can inject any module into the N900 kernel, then thanks for pointing me out with another huge security hole. |
| 13:12.50 | SpeedEvil | Sure. There are many other things for which loading a module would be nice though, in principle. |
| 13:13.08 | SpeedEvil | For example, andother one I was wanting today - gadget driver to use the device as a webcam |
| 13:13.13 | *** join/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 13:13.42 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: the same thing, and now it wont stop rebooting :P |
| 13:14.06 | lizardo | djszapi, SpeedEvil : N900 is just a regular linux system with regards to security, meaning that being root you can do anything, including loading modules |
| 13:14.12 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: we wanted to create a safe platform with our ideas, not a hacker platform. |
| 13:14.25 | djszapi | lizardo: yes, we know :) |
| 13:14.45 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: yes, I know. I was just addressing your comment that it was impossible on n900, when it wasn't. |
| 13:14.46 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: we did not clearly target hackersas the main point. |
| 13:15.17 | snowpong | read the total number of N9s to be shipped was 91k is that true? |
| 13:15.34 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: okay, sorry for that. It was my impression because of the power kernel. However it turns out even worse after all since I had even worse impression about N900 and how easy to abuse it. |
| 13:16.00 | *** join/#harmattan elzalem (~elzalem@95.141.49.228) |
| 13:16.09 | flux | djszapi, well, power kernel package installs a new kernel, isn't that like total ownership of the device anyway?-) |
| 13:17.21 | lizardo | djszapi: anyway, I'm aware of them hassle internally and externally regarding "aegis + developers", and the fact that this is a non-reversible management decision, but it should be made clear to anyone that harmattan's aegis still has "capability holes" in it |
| 13:17.57 | lizardo | you just need to... poke around |
| 13:18.15 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: so the error is as soon as cmt-mcusw is finished, anyidea what that is? |
| 13:18.54 | SpeedEvil | Aegis only makes sense on the predicate that there are people actually reading the capability lists for ovi apps. |
| 13:18.58 | SpeedEvil | I wonder if this is true. |
| 13:19.37 | frals | SpeedEvil: is it even possible to see list of credentials the app in ovi asks for? |
| 13:19.48 | RST38h | yawns and asks what is new and exciting |
| 13:19.49 | SpeedEvil | (or at least, that the ovi application process is bulletproof in tying an app to a real-life dev. |
| 13:20.06 | lizardo | I actually never understood why the user is not prompted for which capabilities an application is trying to use... For me If I download "pacman" and it requires reading my SMS, I would like to know about it |
| 13:20.10 | frals | hiemanshu: cmt-mcusw sounds like cellmodem.. did you happen to have anything except the publicly available images on your device at some point? |
| 13:20.10 | RST38h | Ah, HP has just laid off 525 webOS hw developers |
| 13:20.11 | SpeedEvil | That too, yes. |
| 13:20.32 | hiemanshu | frals: nope, just 22-6 and this 34-2 now |
| 13:20.35 | Stskeeps | hiemanshu: are you downgading? |
| 13:20.41 | Stskeeps | RST38h: hw or sw? |
| 13:20.48 | RST38h | Stskeeps: hw |
| 13:20.50 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: nope, trying to flash 34-2 on one that was on 22-6 |
| 13:20.51 | SpeedEvil | 525 hw? wow. |
| 13:20.53 | SpeedEvil | Ow |
| 13:20.58 | Stskeeps | RST38h: [url? |
| 13:21.01 | RST38h | Stskeeps: sw people are kinda safe, for now |
| 13:21.14 | RST38h | Stskeeps: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/09/20/hp_layoffs/ |
| 13:22.04 | hiemanshu | frals: there was a newer version of 22-6 that wouldn't flash either, I had to use the older version of 22-6 (got it from doc) to get it to flash |
| 13:24.03 | *** join/#harmattan vladest_ (~Vlad@221-171-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net) |
| 13:27.36 | djszapi | flux: who said it is not total ownership ? |
| 13:27.57 | djszapi | lizardo: what holes ? Please clarify. |
| 13:28.08 | flux | djszapi, nobody. but it's just as easy to have a module that owns the machine or a whole kernel, except that the latter will be bigger and require a reboot - which I don't really consider to be a biggie |
| 13:28.22 | flux | (both things can come in a debian package) |
| 13:28.28 | djszapi | frals: it is not just possible, b ut requirement c |
| 13:28.47 | djszapi | frals: that is what Android already did better than us. Of course I would like to see if I download something what credentials it could require |
| 13:28.55 | djszapi | that is really a fairly very fundamental minimum thing. |
| 13:29.41 | djszapi | lizardo: not sure why you try to think we made this platform for 100-200 developers instead of million, userbase, that is |
| 13:29.53 | djszapi | provinding the safest phone them ever. |
| 13:30.02 | lizardo | djszapi: the platform gives capabilities to various applications, thus relying on them not "leaking" these capabilities for other purposes. Add that to the fact that you have root access and you can subvert some app to giving the capability to another process |
| 13:30.15 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: Sure. The platform was designed in the expectation of tens of millions or more handsets. |
| 13:30.40 | SpeedEvil | The likelyhood of tens of millions of n9s selling - seems not very big. |
| 13:30.43 | hiemanshu | djszapi: the safest phone is my Nokia 1100, please brick that :D |
| 13:30.50 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: it does not matter what the current status is |
| 13:31.16 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: since we did not know this and maemo was a great platform (the best ever for mobile phones), and we planned it many years ago, this is really a weak arguement |
| 13:31.23 | SpeedEvil | At some point you cross the line where annoyance to devs is more important than the safeyty of users. |
| 13:31.34 | SpeedEvil | If you don't have the apps - safe or not - the users won't come. |
| 13:31.44 | SpeedEvil | Where that point is is another question of course. |
| 13:31.50 | *** join/#harmattan apol (~apol@92.50.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 13:32.03 | djszapi | lizardo: not sure what you mean, sorry. |
| 13:32.28 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: seriously, I am not getting you. |
| 13:32.58 | *** join/#harmattan hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 13:32.59 | vitaminj | SpeedEvil: It's only the annoyance of devs that are trying to do really hardcore linux things though - normal mass-consumer "apps" are unhindered - the qt creator experience makes aegis pretty transparent |
| 13:33.00 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: I ported about 50-60 packages without any issue |
| 13:33.05 | djszapi | without the need to touch any aegis stuff. |
| 13:33.26 | lizardo | djszapi: I'm discussing about fundamental architecture weakness (IMHO, of course), I'm still going to experiment with the new firmware to confirm it in practice :) |
| 13:33.31 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: If you reduce the pool of devs, by making the platform inconvenient to dev for (I'm not arguing that this is the case), then you reduce the likelyhood that there will be any users to be secure. |
| 13:33.44 | djszapi | lizardo: thanks for your lovely constructive words. |
| 13:33.51 | SpeedEvil | In the case of aegis - it - mostly - doesn't get in the way of most apps. |
| 13:33.57 | djszapi | without knowing it, but architecturally weakness... |
| 13:34.00 | vladest | any1 updated devtools on yours n950? |
| 13:34.01 | SpeedEvil | I'd possibly argue it should, ore. |
| 13:34.04 | SpeedEvil | more |
| 13:34.10 | djszapi | ok I am gone, I need to work |
| 13:34.12 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 13:34.16 | lizardo | djszapi: AFAIK, android does not allow root access as we do. Yes, the root is capped in many ways on harmattan, but it is still capable of important things, like moving files around and creating new ones |
| 13:34.30 | artemma | wonders what SpeedEvil would say about Apple convenience for devs :) |
| 13:34.56 | SpeedEvil | artemma: And in some cases, convenience doesn't matter. If you've got enough mindshare, devs will bend over and take it. |
| 13:35.12 | MohammadAG | lizardo, it allows it more |
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| 13:35.25 | artemma | SpeedEvil: so now we got to mindshare :) |
| 13:35.47 | MohammadAG | the fact you can boot another OS out of the box on the Samsung Galaxy II is amazing |
| 13:35.59 | lizardo | djszapi is not about talking much it seems :) anyway, looks like I have to show my point in practice... let's see tonight |
| 13:36.21 | artemma | Several super clear and useful device experiences for a particular target market is important. Like, you know, BlackBerry's email for example |
| 13:36.30 | artemma | then devs will try to follow |
| 13:36.44 | artemma | they certainly may still fail, but they will try |
| 13:36.56 | RST38h | Mohammad: Still no access to the phone part though? |
| 13:37.03 | lizardo | MohammadAG: you mean , android allows accessing as root even on "locked" devices ? |
| 13:37.16 | DocScrutinizer | (<djszapi> provinding the safest phone them ever. ) PFFFF beat my 6210 |
| 13:37.18 | MohammadAG | not sure, I'm talking about Samsung's stuff |
| 13:37.20 | lizardo | I thought each process had its own user, or something like that |
| 13:37.36 | DocScrutinizer | ooh hiemanshu said that already |
| 13:38.17 | artemma | lizardo: sometimes Androids are veeery easy to unlock. Samsung Galaxy has the unlock code right in the file system. Easily accessible to anybody who can open a file from the file system |
| 13:39.41 | kkito | n9 will be the safest phone ever because no cracker want to crack a device that there are less than 100.000 units worldwide :P |
| 13:40.42 | lizardo | artemma: interesting. In this case, It is not *that* locked as I thought (I thought it was an Iphone like beast, with clever hacks to jailbreak it). Which is nice for me actually :) I like N900 way of doing things (i.e. no jailbreak at all) |
| 13:41.21 | RST38h | artemma: I just hope their galaxy Note will have unlock code at the same place then =) |
| 13:41.54 | djszapiN9 | lizardo android security is nowhere to aegis |
| 13:42.14 | djszapiN9 | lizardo same applies on their sec. docs |
| 13:42.19 | RST38h | good, don't need "security" |
| 13:42.58 | DocScrutinizer | no, it's in fact a bit better regarding the purpose of allowing user to decide what's a threat and what isn't |
| 13:43.20 | djszapiN9 | lizardo however they started copying things quite a while ago |
| 13:44.36 | DocScrutinizer | and android had true unlocked developer devices from very beginning - they didn't think of devels like "the most evil scum of users and that's the dudes we need to protect the device from" |
| 13:44.40 | djszapiN9 | (or figuring out themselves that is the of going how we did) |
| 13:44.51 | djszapiN9 | lizardo ^ |
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| 13:46.00 | vladest | kkito: dont repeate murtazin's BS plz |
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| 13:48.49 | kkito | anyways, there are scam apps into the ovi store right now. |
| 13:49.50 | kkito | i don't know why to worry about user security, when in the official store you can get scammed |
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| 13:50.25 | djszapi | kkito: that is the point yes, that is why security |
| 13:50.37 | DocScrutinizer | kkito: that's because aegis *is not about user security* |
| 13:50.44 | djszapi | and not just human people checking the sources manually. You revealed the person of the whole stuff. |
| 13:50.54 | djszapi | purpose* |
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| 13:51.15 | SpeedEvil | I do wonder if there are any apps on device that would not be there but for aegis. |
| 13:51.30 | SpeedEvil | Also - is flash in latest images? |
| 13:51.37 | DocScrutinizer | no, and no |
| 13:51.51 | snowpong | on the N950, other have issues with cpu load and scrolling a qml listview - getting 70% CPU load here which is ridiculous - this is code that runs fine for N8 for example |
| 13:52.18 | RST38h | snowpong: doesn' tthis depend on what your delegate is doing? |
| 13:52.28 | RST38h | because that is what gets called to generate new list items |
| 13:52.41 | snowpong | RST38h: sure, but we trimmed those to be OK for N8 performance, meaning they should fly on N950 no? |
| 13:53.05 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: people saying "I can decide what is malware on my system and what not" are just hilarious seriously :D |
| 13:53.06 | snowpong | is wondering if some magic settings/flags needs to be set on TLW |
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| 13:53.45 | elpuri | snowpong: probably related to the opengl graphics backend |
| 13:54.00 | DocScrutinizer | people saying "djszapi will decide what's malware and I'm happy with it" are truly hilarious |
| 13:54.03 | elpuri | i remember someone complaining about the same thing on #qt-qtml when he ran some super simple test on n900 |
| 13:54.16 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: but sure, you can buy windows, and you can decide xD xD xD |
| 13:54.25 | elpuri | like animating two small rectangles and it caused something like 60-70% load |
| 13:54.50 | RST38h | snowpong: in theory, yes |
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| 13:56.55 | snowpong | elpuri: so, this is _supposed_ to be like this? |
| 13:57.17 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: Aegis is only meaningful security for users, if the app-store actually vets every app. |
| 13:57.18 | snowpong | elpuri: I'm pretty sure the graphicssystem used is meego |
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| 13:57.27 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: otherwise it doesn't help them at all. |
| 13:57.32 | snowpong | (which I guess is OpenGL ES2.0 based) |
| 13:57.36 | SpeedEvil | (at least vets the capabilities) |
| 13:57.44 | DocScrutinizer | the ONLY malware I've ever seen on any unix machine been cherry courtesy Nokia - aegis is about ensuring we can't stop them in future like we did with fremantle-cherry |
| 13:58.15 | SpeedEvil | Same here - the only app that's actually broken the law on my device is from nokia. |
| 13:58.30 | SpeedEvil | (cherry - premium rate SMS) |
| 13:58.38 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: nope, exactly the opposite. |
| 13:58.50 | djszapi | actually aegis was a completely automated way of a security thing... |
| 13:58.57 | RST38h | SpeedEvil: I think djszapi knows better |
| 13:59.18 | djszapi | OVI store "manual" check happened to be because of there was not enough energy put into the automated way iirc |
| 13:59.27 | RST38h | SpeedEvil: He talks like he knows better, so why don't you let him decide which applications are breaking law on your phone? |
| 13:59.31 | RST38h | cackles |
| 13:59.32 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: you're missing the point. Aegis allows capabilities that the user would not normally expect in - say - a 'connect 4' game. But may desire in other apps. |
| 13:59.33 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: that's pretty clear, djszapi knows everything |
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| 14:00.04 | nibbler | i'd like to rather see some security framework that helps me protecting my private keys and stuff. not there either, or can aegis be used for that? |
| 14:00.04 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: I was sitting there on that meeting where we decided which credentials to allow in OVI store :D :D |
| 14:00.33 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: Unless there is a means for screening which apps get which credentials, or OVI store signup ties the app to a legally responsible entity, it's meaningless unless you accept the idea that all apps should have the same access. |
| 14:00.41 | DocScrutinizer | GREAT, no the world is safe |
| 14:00.54 | frals | aha, the workaround for gtalk works for generic xmpp if you change gmail to xmpp \o/ |
| 14:01.01 | RST38h | yeah |
| 14:01.06 | SpeedEvil | Which is insane - as it means that either no apps can use the internet, or all apps can use the internet. |
| 14:01.10 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: sorry, not getting you. |
| 14:01.21 | DocScrutinizer | nibbler: basically not |
| 14:01.30 | nibbler | :( |
| 14:01.41 | frals | or well.. it brought me online, nfc how to message someone ;D |
| 14:02.08 | RST38h | Doc: What I wonder about is when the guy gets bored of his proselytizing |
| 14:02.09 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: the required access for an app that manages the users photos, and a simple game without even a local highscore is very different. |
| 14:02.28 | javispedro | aha, aegis discussion! |
| 14:02.32 | javispedro | grabs popcorn |
| 14:02.40 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: indeed, so what ? |
| 14:02.42 | RST38h | Doc: I mean, he is basically repeating the same nonsense. At some point, he should get tired of it, right? |
| 14:02.42 | javispedro | (and moo, btw) |
| 14:02.48 | RST38h | moo, javispedro |
| 14:02.48 | SpeedEvil | From a users point of view, aegis isn't helping. |
| 14:02.51 | SpeedEvil | Meh. |
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| 14:03.06 | *** join/#harmattan faenil (5d2f1935@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.47.25.53) |
| 14:03.16 | faenil | good afternoon everyone :D |
| 14:03.18 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: what I wonder more is if the "I don't get it" stanza is carefully trained or just on random |
| 14:03.18 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: oh yeah, sure aegis is not helping :D :D |
| 14:03.21 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: If a simple app can do malicious stuff through permitted means, when it shouldn't have access to those means, then it's broken. |
| 14:03.59 | RST38h | Doc: It is a rhetorical device used to get opponent off course |
| 14:03.59 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: stop it, it's evidently useless |
| 14:04.14 | RST38h | Doc: Basically, I can respond "I don't get it" to just about any argument |
| 14:04.22 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: that is where you are wrong, a simple app cannot do that |
| 14:04.38 | RST38h | Doc: Although I would prefer "You dick", for being more concise |
| 14:04.54 | javispedro | a simple app can still connect to smtp.gmail.com and start sending spam |
| 14:04.54 | DocScrutinizer | hmm fair enough |
| 14:05.01 | nibbler | i also miss something that allows the user to decide what app has which capabilities - for 'users' and convenie apps should come with a sane individual default like on symbian (maybe a bit more fine grained) but putting the user in charge of making his/her decisions on their own would be great |
| 14:05.08 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: Unless there is manual review of aegis credentials, any app can do anything any other app can do. |
| 14:05.17 | nibbler | convenience. |
| 14:05.26 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: well, not really |
| 14:05.27 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: YES, and esp even if the app is called "4 wins" |
| 14:05.41 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: So if it's possible for an app to send a SMS, which may be desired for some apps, it's possible for any app to send a SMS. |
| 14:05.52 | SpeedEvil | Including apps that should never, ever be able to. |
| 14:05.55 | Arkenoi | wants portrait mode in contacts at least |
| 14:05.57 | djszapi | it certainly requires manual review as of now, but the point is that it can be more automated and we do have some tools for those anyways, like systap |
| 14:05.59 | RST38h | suggests filtering apps on the basis of their names, i.e. any app containing "win" in its name never gets network access |
| 14:06.02 | DocScrutinizer | is going to push a "4 wins" to OVI that sends a zillion spam msgs to djszapi |
| 14:06.05 | RST38h | BTW, this *includes* MS Windows |
| 14:07.05 | hiemanshu_ | Stskeeps: it flashed just fine on WIndows |
| 14:07.40 | Stskeeps | hiemanshu: wtf |
| 14:07.42 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 14:07.44 | vladest | haptic effect doesnt crashes anymore with new fw |
| 14:07.47 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: so that actually you can actually make the code review automated. It would really indeed be a hell, if we need another 1000 people just to review every code again before getting into ovi store. That would be a rather huge no go. On the other hand, human can make mistakes. It should be more and more automated. |
| 14:07.55 | javispedro | SpeedEvil, technically, nothing prevents us from making a dpkg wrapper that shows a large "This application will request the following tokens: BLABLABLA. Proceed?" |
| 14:07.57 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, now he's saying "for now it'd need some manual survey which in fact we don't do - but it will be *way* better in the future". While actually the concept is broken |
| 14:08.04 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: I did not say code review. |
| 14:08.04 | djszapi | hiemanshu: See ? That is what I said. |
| 14:08.06 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: double click, insert phone, and flashes just fine |
| 14:08.11 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: I said review of aegis credentials. |
| 14:08.21 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: that'S exactly what android does, no? |
| 14:08.26 | javispedro | yep |
| 14:08.29 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: meaning that you should review every low-level code even if it is assembly. |
| 14:08.36 | javispedro | albeit android does have a finer grained permissions system |
| 14:08.39 | djszapi | of course, we automated it. |
| 14:08.44 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: Aegis as a security framework, if the credentials are appropriately validated at the ovi store, has a point. |
| 14:08.50 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: [2011-09-20 15:53:05] <djszapi> SpeedEvil: people saying "I can decide what is malware on my system and what not" are just hilarious seriously :D |
| 14:08.54 | djszapi | actually android is a very limited permission system |
| 14:08.59 | djszapi | has* |
| 14:09.07 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: Aegis, if all apps have the same credentials is kinda pointless from a users perspective. |
| 14:09.08 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: the question now is, why wouldn't it flash on openSuSE, gotta figure that out |
| 14:09.16 | djszapi | they do not even provide dynamic credential distribution which is a huge issue. |
| 14:09.33 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: What point is there if the 'connect 4' game I downloaded can do lots of premium rate SMSs in the background? |
| 14:09.36 | javispedro | but they do provide dynamic credential synergy! |
| 14:09.48 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: no, it is not because you are missing the bit, ovi store does not have everything |
| 14:09.59 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: we do not enable the deny allow service to get everythingg, do not kid |
| 14:10.05 | Stskeeps | hiemanshu: solar flares |
| 14:10.08 | hiemanshu | oh, the vkbd is not weirder |
| 14:10.10 | djszapi | we do not have enough resource and a god system to review assembler codes :D |
| 14:10.19 | djszapi | without any error-prone situation and human mistakes. |
| 14:10.32 | khertan1 | 's counter measure launched |
| 14:10.38 | javispedro | plus, you CANNOT make the perfect system unless you do a fork ala android |
| 14:10.46 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: Reviewing aegis credentials is clealry better than reviewing code, I'm not arguing that. But if credential review is not done, then aegis is not better for the user. |
| 14:10.58 | djszapi | javispedro: harmattan forked linux ala android |
| 14:11.01 | DocScrutinizer | aha, now we're at "aegis relies on OVI deny allow, and that is not a god system" |
| 14:11.13 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: one really big point you miss here. |
| 14:11.14 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: Simply as the credentials for 'easy SMS sender' and 'connect 4' game do not difer. |
| 14:11.39 | djszapi | I have been trying to say that to you for a while: you can decide which credential to give if you check the code out. |
| 14:11.50 | djszapi | it can be manual, it can also be verified automatically to a certain extent |
| 14:11.56 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: _as_a_normal_user_ |
| 14:11.57 | RST38h | here he goes again |
| 14:12.22 | DocScrutinizer | shakes head in disbelieve |
| 14:12.33 | djszapi | wrong, credentials are not decided by the user, they are decided by the security framework and OVI QA. |
| 14:12.50 | DocScrutinizer | OVI QA muhahahahaha |
| 14:12.57 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: So ovi QA actually looks at the credentials, and decides on a per-app basis if they are sane? |
| 14:13.15 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: And may refuse listing if they're not? |
| 14:13.20 | javispedro | what policies they use for that? |
| 14:13.35 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: no, it does not work like that |
| 14:13.36 | khertan1 | 's radar : nuclear launch detected |
| 14:13.57 | javispedro | do they allow a game "TrackerReadAccess" for data mining^W^W, uh, "game customization purposes" |
| 14:14.07 | hiemanshu | javispedro: the way the Visa embassy works, 'If you look nice, you can get your visa' |
| 14:14.25 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: Is anyone screening the credentials that apps in ovi store request? |
| 14:14.46 | javispedro | hiemanshu, currently, I think it is more like "come IN! We're _wide_ open!" |
| 14:14.56 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: well, what else would the OVI QA be ? |
| 14:15.05 | hiemanshu | javispedro: yup |
| 14:15.07 | khertan1 | any way ? which user will download apps from ovi ? it s spammed by useless and horrible rss apps ... |
| 14:15.16 | djszapi | either they reject your spam or they will say, okay this credential is not needed for your app. I would guess that. |
| 14:15.31 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: But don't know if it actually occurs? |
| 14:15.36 | SpeedEvil | Also - look at the apps list. |
| 14:15.42 | SpeedEvil | They're actually rejecting spam? |
| 14:15.48 | hiemanshu | anyways, I have to go home now, so later guys |
| 14:15.51 | DocScrutinizer | no definitely not |
| 14:15.54 | SpeedEvil | hiemanshu: Wave |
| 14:15.58 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: that would be their task, out-of-my-scope sorry, I cannot do everything.... |
| 14:16.39 | kkito | the funny part about those "spam" apps, is that you can create one of them within minutes in www.ovi.com/appwizard |
| 14:17.13 | javispedro | not exactly see the problem with spam apps |
| 14:17.21 | faenil | so they're supposed to be accepted |
| 14:17.31 | javispedro | that's the same with the iphone, eh? |
| 14:17.32 | DocScrutinizer | I'm just building up the rocket launcher, sorry not my responsibility to check if there's a manned control unit, or an automatic control unit, or no control at all and it fires based on a random generator - OH YEAH |
| 14:17.33 | faenil | which is a simple way to say "we have 1mill apps in ovi store" |
| 14:17.53 | djszapi | faenil: :) |
| 14:18.11 | faenil | djszapi: heehe |
| 14:18.19 | TheBootroo | faenil: :D |
| 14:18.26 | TheBootroo | djszapi: so youre from nokia ? |
| 14:18.46 | djszapi | TheBootroo: not directly.. |
| 14:18.54 | TheBootroo | djszapi: can you say there will be more then 92000 N9 which is ridiculous ... |
| 14:19.05 | khertan1 | Nuclear Launch Detected |
| 14:19.21 | djszapi | TheBootroo: who cares seriously ? Everybody knows about the conscious beheading ... |
| 14:19.23 | TheBootroo | djszapi: but you worked on the N9 dev team ? |
| 14:19.28 | javispedro | khertan1: are you reporting live from a StarCraftII war zone or what? |
| 14:19.44 | khertan1 | no ... just commenting while eating pop corn |
| 14:19.45 | khertan1 | :) |
| 14:19.58 | djszapi | starcraft is the best game ever :) |
| 14:19.58 | Stskeeps | fuck aegis(TM) |
| 14:20.07 | vitaminj | the launch was triggered by the "92k" keyword |
| 14:20.12 | TheBootroo | djszapi: I care, because when accesible countries will get it , there will be so few devices that we will not be able to buy one |
| 14:20.26 | khertan1 | javispedro: yep starcraft inspiration |
| 14:20.28 | djszapi | TheBootroo: seriously no clue or care here. |
| 14:20.35 | djszapi | I myself switched to android anyways |
| 14:20.37 | TheBootroo | djszapi: kay |
| 14:20.56 | faenil | woot? XD |
| 14:21.08 | MohammadAG | this chan needs a +m every once in a while |
| 14:21.09 | TheBootroo | any progress about a usb host for N950 ? |
| 14:21.22 | MohammadAG | Aegis loves the idea |
| 14:21.28 | Tronic | Maybe someone will write an application that allows hiding all apps created with the wizard? |
| 14:21.31 | faenil | ahhaah |
| 14:21.37 | MohammadAG | no kernel sources for 34-1 |
| 14:22.12 | javispedro | I want my sources =) |
| 14:22.20 | TheBootroo | Tronic: there would be an option in store to hide rss apps, web shortcut apps, etc.... and even a 'show only free' swtich |
| 14:22.23 | javispedro | plus, the libnotificationsystem was updated, even changed SONAME |
| 14:22.31 | javispedro | so my metawatch notifications are broken already =) |
| 14:22.34 | khertan1 | Tronic: or create an alternate store :) |
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| 14:22.57 | Tronic | khertan1: Yeah, as if anyone would ever use it. |
| 14:23.00 | faenil | javispedro: lol |
| 14:23.24 | khertan1 | javispedro: hum lucky you are to have a metawatch ... my wife and me have use budget for an other notification system |
| 14:23.28 | faenil | Tronic: look at rzr's repo :P everyone knows about it |
| 14:23.41 | khertan1 | javispedro: a baby phone |
| 14:23.46 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: actually, what makes more sense for the QA is to check the maintainer scripts. |
| 14:24.07 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: easily doable and lot of issues can be caught about those. |
| 14:25.43 | DocScrutinizer | sure. Esp when I decide that my "your stolen phone reports home via SMS" app should have a lil subroutine that sends 5000 SMS / hour to a premium service to get me some earnings |
| 14:26.06 | DocScrutinizer | clearly will get caught by inspecting the maintainer scripts |
| 14:26.17 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: If ovi store is not properly doing QA - there is little point in arguing that the user can do it. |
| 14:26.29 | SpeedEvil | As that kinda misses the point. |
| 14:26.47 | djszapi | but that is exactly what I am saying, the OVI could do that. |
| 14:27.14 | kkito | djszapi: why did you switch to andoid? |
| 14:27.16 | djszapi | it should not be the user's job by any mean. |
| 14:27.33 | djszapi | kkito: because I wanna have a longer term platform where I can work with Qt. |
| 14:27.57 | djszapi | kkito: we have an Android Qt meeting at the Qt Developer day, if you are there by any chance.. |
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| 14:28.10 | kkito | djszapi: has no sense, Qt abstracts the platform |
| 14:28.34 | djszapi | yes, if there is something maintained to be abstracted... |
| 14:28.42 | SpeedEvil | Aegis is almost completely utterly useless, without the required policy framework around it. If ovi store is not doing proper QA, it's essentially meaningless security, as while the dangerous apps may be preventef from doing some things, they are not prevented from doing the dangerous things. SMS+camera+internet+user data |
| 14:28.58 | SpeedEvil | With proper QA, it can do useful stuff for the user. |
| 14:29.10 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: without the runtime policy framework :D :D :D Seriously, have you ever read the kernel code or the documentation itself ? |
| 14:29.21 | SpeedEvil | I did not say runtime policy. |
| 14:29.26 | SpeedEvil | I mean QA policy at ovi store. |
| 14:30.03 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: no, it is actually not, if it is properly automated. |
| 14:30.14 | djszapi | unfortunately we did not have enough badget for that |
| 14:30.15 | DocScrutinizer | MUHAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 14:30.19 | kkito | djszapi: I don't think that qt is gonna to work better in an android platfrom than in harmattan nowdays |
| 14:30.27 | djszapi | budget* |
| 14:30.27 | khertan1 | personnally, i read source of app i use, so i didn't trust app comming from ovi store :) |
| 14:30.36 | DocScrutinizer | goes automating the universal sourcecode validator |
| 14:30.41 | djszapi | kkito: well, I tried, it worked for me what I did. |
| 14:31.01 | SpeedEvil | djszapi; you cannot automate this. It's fundamentally impossible. |
| 14:31.05 | djszapi | kkito: and of course, I know the /current/ EOL of Harmattan maintenance, and I have a guess Google will push it way much longer. |
| 14:31.12 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: what ? |
| 14:31.25 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: it's useless |
| 14:31.26 | djszapi | yes, we could, we exactly had the plan actually for that. |
| 14:31.32 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: Unless you can actually automatically read the description of the app, and deduce from that what credentials you need, it's impossible. |
| 14:32.00 | khertan1 | specially if it s know process and we start having obfuscated binary :) |
| 14:32.05 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: sorry, it is not offense, but I think you just lack the knowledge of the systemtap and other kernel opportunities |
| 14:32.05 | npm_ | the suck: http://developer.qt.nokia.com/forums/viewthread/9114 "pre-fetch, cache, or store any Ovi Maps Content except that You may store limited amounts of Ovi Maps Content for the purpose of testing your Application, if You do so temporarily, securely, and in a manner that does not permit use of the Ovi Maps Content outside of the Ovi Maps Service;" |
| 14:32.06 | SpeedEvil | Otherwise - there is no difference to the automated process from a SMS sender app, and a game which requests SMS credentials. |
| 14:32.10 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: don't you see djszapi works at the first front of AI ? |
| 14:32.18 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: those things were designed for that. It is around us |
| 14:32.49 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: How would an automated system tell between two apps requesting identical credentials, with identical code, but descriptions describing them differently to the user? |
| 14:32.50 | kkito | djszapi: and what is the current EOL of harmattan maintenance? |
| 14:33.00 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: fail to see why you could send sms after a game win if that is what you want... |
| 14:33.06 | npm_ | "Can someone please tell me WHY caching is disabled at Meego/Harmattan ? If you look at the source, it was deliberately taken out! " |
| 14:33.07 | djszapi | kkito: NDA of course |
| 14:33.16 | djszapi | could not* |
| 14:33.25 | Stskeeps | kids, are you really asking someone to give you confidential information? shame on you |
| 14:33.26 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: A simple game that does not claim to SMS after a game win, but sends premium rate SMSs, to get the developer money |
| 14:33.38 | Stskeeps | that's like abill_uk asking me to release the sources of maemo5 |
| 14:33.42 | SpeedEvil | djszap: without the user being aware. |
| 14:33.52 | khertan1 | Stskeeps: hihi ... |
| 14:34.27 | macmaN_ | is ovi suite supposed to be able to recognize n950? |
| 14:34.35 | vitaminj | Stskeeps: don't forget the source code for the drivers for all the 3rd party hardware too. because they're essential. |
| 14:34.44 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: fail to see why that would be game specific, and could not happen in any other app... |
| 14:35.32 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: The point is that the game app should never have the SMS credit - if it's not informed the user of this. A proper OVI QA process would check that this is the case. |
| 14:35.44 | TheBootroo | macmaN_: no Ovi suite here, only maybe Nokia Link |
| 14:35.50 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: disagree, a proper API would do that |
| 14:36.07 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: You mean a popup whenever the app wants to SMS? |
| 14:36.10 | Sput | macmaN_: weirdly, one of my Ovi Suite installations recognizes and handles the N950 just fine, while the other tells me it's not supported (even though it synced on the very first connect). both suites are the same version... |
| 14:36.14 | *** join/#harmattan khertan (~quassel@AAmiens-553-1-183-174.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:36.27 | javispedro | SpeedEvil, djszapi: you now each hold reversed positions! :) |
| 14:36.28 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: yes, of course |
| 14:36.35 | macmaN_ | Sput: ok my VM doesnt even find it atm |
| 14:36.43 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: you bet the methods used inside Nokia to tell apart the identical code and app, one time with "this game sends a premium SMS, please dont install if you're not content with it" and the other one without that notice, yes the algo telling apart those two and rating the one as rogue while the other is ok for OVI store, damn this algo must be SEKRIT and NDA and confidential for sure |
| 14:36.50 | macmaN_ | Sput: i mean it only sees the mass storage drive |
| 14:36.57 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: I think it is better to programatically defend than by humans who can make mistakes ... |
| 14:36.58 | macmaN_ | Sput: which mode did you use, sync and connect? |
| 14:37.10 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: no clue what you're talking about, someone asked about harmattan EOL |
| 14:37.25 | Sput | macmaN_: I get it recognized, and then the one newly-installed ovi suite tells me it's not supported... whereas the other installation doesn't care and works flawlessly |
| 14:37.30 | Sput | macmaN_: yep, sync and connect |
| 14:37.39 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, sorry |
| 14:37.57 | javispedro | so when is harmattan going to be EOL is already _known_ and under NDA? Well, that's all I had to know, last one turn off the lights ;P |
| 14:38.18 | TheBootroo | javispedro: +1 |
| 14:38.56 | npm_ | interesting, so so much in the way they have those expensive $1000.00 collect calls from some random island, you could also have an app that does the same... so isn't there a way to dial a call by command-line parameter?? |
| 14:38.57 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: anyway for "what I'm talking about" just read backscroll, dj's reasoning about automatic OVI QA |
| 14:38.59 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: So the fact that there is no API that pops up when there is a SMS request from an app is also 'out of scope' for aegis? |
| 14:39.17 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: i don't see what djszapi says, sorry, hence not participating in the argument |
| 14:39.22 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: why should an sms API be aegis related ? |
| 14:39.31 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: :-D fair enough |
| 14:39.35 | SpeedEvil | (at least in the UK, that sort of abuse has been alleviated by delaying a month the pay-out from any premium rate calls) |
| 14:39.57 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: The capability to SMS by an app that is not expected by the user to do SMSs. |
| 14:40.04 | w00t | djszapi: because premium rate SMS is something that a framework aimed at user protection should be addressing |
| 14:40.24 | Arkenoi | wonders if landscape mode will ever get fixed or Nokia thinks it is non-issue |
| 14:40.32 | djszapi | well, I can just say the same which I think is good: protect the API properly. |
| 14:40.38 | djszapi | does not allow to send out smsS anyways |
| 14:40.42 | Arkenoi | and damn keyboard too |
| 14:40.45 | djszapi | since that is a timebomb anytime |
| 14:40.59 | djszapi | if the API is correct, there is no timebomb, there is no need for manual checks and the like. That is the real defense. |
| 14:41.01 | MohammadAG | why is the LED API locked by Aegis? |
| 14:41.08 | MohammadAG | obviously the LED indicator isn't blinding |
| 14:41.16 | MohammadAG | and can't cause less securty |
| 14:41.18 | javispedro | MohammadAG, you could use it to send PREMIUM Morse LED messages! |
| 14:41.24 | vitaminj | Arkenoi: I imagine it'll be "post-launch" given that the n950 isn't the target device |
| 14:41.26 | MohammadAG | oh, missed that |
| 14:41.30 | djszapi | I mean not sending smsS in that form as y ou can for instance do directly from your app. |
| 14:41.32 | MohammadAG | where do I subscribe to mce+? |
| 14:41.37 | *** join/#harmattan CepiPerez (~matias@host115.190-220-96.dynamic.telmex.net.ar) |
| 14:41.38 | MohammadAG | SMSs, please |
| 14:41.55 | faenil | javispedro: +1 |
| 14:41.58 | vitaminj | Arkenoi: if at all, obviously |
| 14:42.06 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: But if there is no OVI QA - any app can have the ability to SMS. |
| 14:42.11 | TheBootroo | MohammadAG: XD |
| 14:42.24 | SpeedEvil | When with proper QA - it wouldn't, and aegis would enforce this. |
| 14:42.28 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: except that if the SMS api does not allow you to send sms message without user interaction |
| 14:42.52 | MohammadAG | answer my question, please |
| 14:42.52 | npm | so does an app need special aegis credentials to call other apps (e.g. via QProcess)... so as to do something like ''drive-qml "geo:0,0?searchTerm=Israel%20Israel%20Jerusalem&action=driveTo"'' ( MohammadAG's example... thanx) |
| 14:43.29 | javispedro | ok, funny. AP Mobile news item -- "Nearly 20 people killed in car crash". Ad: "Are you SICK of NOT having a car?" |
| 14:43.43 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 14:43.43 | kkito | xD |
| 14:43.46 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: otherwise, it is just the luck of the human review whether your spam get in and cause you really big harms. |
| 14:43.54 | TheBootroo | javispedro: lol |
| 14:43.55 | MohammadAG | yeah, no sane answer for my question |
| 14:44.14 | npm | because if i can't create cached maps from QML map element ( http://developer.qt.nokia.com/forums/viewthread/6412 http://developer.qt.nokia.com/forums/viewthread/9114 ) |
| 14:44.32 | npm | then i'd want to use drive or the map application to access the cached map those apps seem to provide |
| 14:44.44 | SpeedEvil | Human review is the cornerstone of the process - unless you have a popup for any possible harmful thing. Which would basically mean everything. From sound, to internet usage. |
| 14:45.28 | npm | also it's kinda sad that app-writers simply cannot make a mapping app that extends or competes with the platform one. |
| 14:45.29 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: well, I would seriously not like to trust some strange Ovi QA policy guy ideally whether they decide an application can send high rate SMS, call, what not... |
| 14:45.41 | javispedro | npm, why not? |
| 14:45.48 | npm | simply because they're concerned about copying the cached maps |
| 14:45.50 | TheBootroo | SpeedEvil: oh you means annoying-modal-popup-like-on-iphone-message-shit |
| 14:46.11 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: I would seriously like to have automated and error-proneless defense against that. |
| 14:46.18 | javispedro | npm, they own the map copyright, they're not going to allow you to copy. but you should check e.g. bing or google API |
| 14:46.21 | CepiPerez | hey guys, where can I download developer-mode 0.38+0m6? download fails everytime I try to download through the phone settings |
| 14:46.21 | npm | ""Can someone please tell me WHY caching is disabled at Meego/Harmattan ? If you look at the source, it was deliberately taken out! " |
| 14:46.38 | npm | (from one of the threads in my above msg) |
| 14:46.59 | npm | but what about using the QML map plugin in one's app |
| 14:47.22 | npm | that's what i'm trying to do, but no matter what, when i'm offline i can't geolocate (latitude and longitude undefined no matter what) |
| 14:47.25 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: How can you have an automated defence against two apps with different descriptions and the same code? Unless you have popups for _everything_ |
| 14:47.27 | npm | and qml map don't work |
| 14:47.50 | rm_work | So, I may have missed previous discussion of this, but what's with all the software updates today? When i first saw the update notifications i thought "OMG new FW finally!" but i guess that's not it |
| 14:48.25 | npm | waits a week and lets y'all sort out the bugs on the update, i got an app to write :-) |
| 14:48.33 | SpeedEvil | Description A) 'This is an app to support your local football team, it sends a daily premium SMS to them and downloads a wallpaper every day' B) 'This app displays a wallpaper of your local football team' |
| 14:48.44 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: no need for everything, please do not mis-interpret it :) Aegis defenses against a vast majority |
| 14:48.46 | TheBootroo | rm_work: yah there's a new FW, but not many news things in it |
| 14:49.00 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo_webchat (98429b15@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.66.155.21) |
| 14:49.02 | TheBootroo | rm_work: only twitter , hotspot and accu weather app |
| 14:49.08 | TheBootroo | rm_work: and some bug fixes |
| 14:49.17 | SpeedEvil | Aegis defends against the subset of attacks that the user does not care about. (in the absence of a robust QA policy) |
| 14:49.24 | TheBootroo | rm_work: and tons of dev tools to reinstall yourself* |
| 14:49.24 | rm_work | hrm |
| 14:49.29 | rm_work | heh |
| 14:49.35 | rm_work | so i have to reflash? |
| 14:49.35 | DocScrutinizer | ok, this is your reporter from aegis battlefield again. Latest news: Aegis is good for *some* security, for example to avoid abuse of dmesg, but obviously can't help for very common standard malware concepts, like dialers, hidden premium SMS, sending out spam(!) via the mail account, etc. The debate now is about "Is aegis worth *anything* at all under these circumstances?" |
| 14:49.37 | SpeedEvil | If the app can do SMS, internet, camera, ... then the game is already over. |
| 14:49.41 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: there are situations which are up to the API design how to behave. Those should be combined as a first try, and /when/ that is done /properly/. It is possible to discuss whether there is a need for manual review. However I am afraid something that cannot be caught by those architectural designs, will be even less chancy for a human. |
| 14:49.44 | TheBootroo | rm_work: yes, no OTA there |
| 14:49.45 | rm_work | there's no OTA upgrade procedure? |
| 14:49.47 | rm_work | k |
| 14:49.49 | npm | SpeedEvil: wouldn't that "use case" be removed by simply providing proper in-app payment solution for Qt apps? |
| 14:49.58 | Venemo_webchat | hey guys |
| 14:50.00 | vitaminj | rm_work: and sms and contacts loss http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950#Migrating_from_beta_1_to_beta_2 |
| 14:50.14 | rm_work | ack |
| 14:50.19 | SpeedEvil | npm: Perhaps - it was an example of how an app with the same code could have malicious and safe descriptions. |
| 14:51.01 | npm | good example. i hadn't been thinking about premium SMS's at all. |
| 14:51.09 | npm | so thanks for eye-opening |
| 14:51.13 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: I still sticky by, the most important task for QA stuff is to filter out the malicious maintainer scripts which is still the largest attack surface for anybody. That can be done fairly easily, I think that can also be automated more or less , though. |
| 14:52.02 | npm | but from Nokia's side it should provide impetus to implement something like in-app-payment. after all, you have to keep up with the googses |
| 14:52.18 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: Why would a user give a shit about maintainer scripts, when apps can turn on the front camera at random and send it over the internet, replace the pictures in their galleries with porn, send SMSs, and ... |
| 14:52.39 | djszapi | if person checks the same surface attack, or it is done programatically with less-error-prony.... Well, I would certainly vote for the second one. As in high rate calls, I would not still like to trust people deciding about it (that is just rather error-prone) |
| 14:53.26 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: Can I give you a skeleton package with a "nice" maintainer script and would you install please ? After that, you would see why it is important to "give a shit"... |
| 14:53.47 | faenil | none of you is actually giving a solution... |
| 14:53.50 | faenil | I'm getting more and more confused |
| 14:53.52 | SpeedEvil | You look at the app description. You start the app, and maybe run it for a couple of minutes. You then review if it's sane for having SMS. |
| 14:54.05 | djszapi | faenil: I did more times for the maintainer scripts ? |
| 14:54.08 | SpeedEvil | If not, you deny it as a credential, and bounce it back to the dev. |
| 14:54.18 | SpeedEvil | And possibly call the police. |
| 14:54.34 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: well, that is no go review imho, and makes no sense. |
| 14:54.35 | faenil | djszapi: but it seems like they're not the only threat |
| 14:55.07 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: viruses (for instance on Windows) can be like that way, it does not represent itself: "ahh hey I am here, catch me, I can run quickly though" :) |
| 14:55.10 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: I don't disagree maintainer scripts can do bad stuff. But how is that relevant if the app can do bad stuff with credentials properly given by ovi sore? |
| 14:55.37 | faenil | speedevil: +1 |
| 14:55.40 | TheBootroo | ok guys i'm must go |
| 14:55.46 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: because you cannot do so powerful deny allow service with OVI policies that you can do from maintainer scripts ? |
| 14:56.03 | TheBootroo | i've a question |
| 14:56.08 | TheBootroo | before leaving |
| 14:56.17 | djszapi | actually, right now, the maintainer scripts are the laaaargest surface attack (as I revealed it couple of times in the past) |
| 14:56.48 | TheBootroo | did you see Tommi Laukkannen (tlaukkanen) or Andrea Enbacka (aenbacka) there ? |
| 14:56.53 | djszapi | unfortunate, since it was against a silly manager decision imho. |
| 14:57.01 | faenil | djszapi: you're defending against one attack, ok, what about the rest? |
| 14:57.05 | djszapi | again* |
| 14:57.17 | djszapi | faenil: what rest ? |
| 14:57.28 | faenil | things speedevil is talking about |
| 14:57.32 | npm | SpeedEvil: " app can do SMS, internet, camera, ... then the game is already over." --> but doesn't ones app need credentials for those to get access, and aren't the presence of those credentials something that's easy for QA to check ? |
| 14:57.33 | djszapi | and yes, I am speaking about the hugest and simpliest surface attack, yes. |
| 14:57.57 | djszapi | faenil: speedevil does not like the programatical defense, I do like. |
| 14:58.23 | SpeedEvil | npm: yes. |
| 14:58.50 | djszapi | npm: no it is not any easier than anything else |
| 14:58.56 | SpeedEvil | npm: If the QA process works, and is implemented properly, aegis has a point. If it doesn't, then aegis only protects against stuff the user doesn't care about. |
| 14:58.57 | faenil | let me understand, djszapi, you'll let premium sms app in, and then let user decide whether to send sms or not |
| 14:59.03 | djszapi | npm: since you can anytime use the same features in your app.... |
| 14:59.11 | npm | so where's the problem? you could just scan all incoming app credentials and flag the problematic ones for review |
| 14:59.17 | djszapi | meaning that either it needs code level check or automated protecting (That I am with) |
| 14:59.40 | SpeedEvil | npm: djszapi seems to have been arguing that the QA process is not a key part of the security. |
| 14:59.46 | djszapi | npm: yes, that is what I have been saying, but that needs either manual check or automated way (That I am with) |
| 14:59.48 | SpeedEvil | At least to me. |
| 14:59.54 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: wrong |
| 15:00.05 | djszapi | actually I even said the opposite with maintainer scripts in this special casse. |
| 15:00.09 | djszapi | case* |
| 15:00.12 | DocScrutinizer | npm: so what's wrong when my app is called "face recog password free auth" and claims to know your face and ask with your home radius server to unlock the phone. Then it for sure will rightfully request cam and internet access, and then I can send out your stunned face to youporn when you notice I watched your activities al day and night |
| 15:00.50 | djszapi | but yeah, I would certainly automate that as well, humans make mistake... |
| 15:00.52 | npm | ah, the old "amiwanking" app |
| 15:01.28 | npm | wow, that would be a good thing to put in a free pornviewer :-) |
| 15:01.54 | berndhs | well, why have 2 cameras in the phone and then not spy on people ? just doesnt make any sense |
| 15:02.15 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: do you seriously think if there are say X people there for ms viruses, they can catch all the viruses by running applications for a limited time ? |
| 15:02.53 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: Of course not. |
| 15:03.05 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: But it's trivial to find out if the app informs the user it's going to make SMSs |
| 15:03.15 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: If it doesn't, it doesn't get the SMS credential. |
| 15:03.21 | faenil | agree |
| 15:03.34 | DocScrutinizer | yawns |
| 15:03.34 | SpeedEvil | And perhaps more investigation/prosecution is triggered. |
| 15:04.00 | DocScrutinizer | prefers to continue pondering how T F to "abuse dmesg" |
| 15:04.33 | npm | hmm what if the app has a encrypted timebomb in it... that runs it's decrupted payload via qprocess? |
| 15:04.42 | npm | s/decrupt/decrypt |
| 15:04.55 | SpeedEvil | npm: Then it doesn't have the SMS credential. |
| 15:05.04 | SpeedEvil | And it can't SMS |
| 15:05.09 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: well, that sort of issue can be caught by good API as well, so here is my workflow, feel free to fix me: |
| 15:05.11 | npm | but it can do other things |
| 15:05.42 | npm | like take a picture of your anthony and post it to twitter |
| 15:05.47 | SpeedEvil | djszapi: Unless the API asks the user when it does _anything_ - turn on camera - send packet to internet - ... - it adds no security |
| 15:05.48 | djszapi | 1) Design a good platform (as in security) 2) Design good APIs 3) Write Automated tools 4) (Last step!) Check out if there is a need for any manual QA check, and whether those can still be automated. |
| 15:06.13 | npm | s/anthony/weiner |
| 15:07.01 | npm | i'd be more worried about these things being used for political purposes. |
| 15:07.45 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: as for me, manual QA thingy is something t hat /should/ be avoided, but let us discuss at the /end/ whether still needs be there. |
| 15:08.06 | npm | SpeedEvil: but what if it was an app that was otherwise well-behaved and had credentials for SMS/photo/twitter |
| 15:09.53 | npm | but had a little extra payload in there.... |
| 15:10.01 | berndhs | sure, a sleeper spy app |
| 15:10.25 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: I am a bit afk, thanks for the discussion. :) |
| 15:10.53 | *** part/#harmattan vitaminj (~vitaminj@132.185.237.133) |
| 15:10.55 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: toldya it's useless, no? |
| 15:11.01 | flux | there's an actual business based on such apps. it's based on you getting a hold on the victim's phone, though, installing a 'worm' game |
| 15:11.30 | flux | after that you can spy the phone |
| 15:16.40 | faenil | guys |
| 15:16.41 | faenil | one thing |
| 15:16.46 | faenil | has anyone ever been at qtdays? |
| 15:17.32 | DocScrutinizer | flux: excellent example :-D I'd *expect* such a spy app would pass OVI QA when properly advertised as "Spy-app for law enforcement authorities only. $6999". Change the description to "harmattan optimizer" (we've seen similar useless null-funct "optimzer" apps for fremantle) and give away for free, and I'm waiting for any automated QA ring a bell then |
| 15:18.47 | flux | docscrutinizer, the actual spy app component was free, but the license for the remote control app wasn't |
| 15:19.14 | javispedro | in Fremantle, at least on such noptimizer (pun intentional) app was banned from the ovi store |
| 15:19.50 | faenil | anyone ever been at qt dev days? :D |
| 15:20.47 | *** join/#harmattan willer_ (~Willer@189.2.128.130) |
| 15:20.56 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: and why got it banned? because of some AI QA ringing the alarm bells, or because users/devels with a brain complained? |
| 15:21.07 | javispedro | afaik, it was QA |
| 15:21.17 | javispedro | reason was "it modified system internals" or similar. |
| 15:21.27 | DocScrutinizer | automated AI based QA? DUH! |
| 15:22.15 | DocScrutinizer | flux: :-D |
| 15:22.29 | DocScrutinizer | flux: that's the way to make money :-D |
| 15:22.54 | npm | yeah, just ask google |
| 15:24.10 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer, no, not AI, old fashioned one |
| 15:24.26 | flux | FlexiSpy says "Installation is simple and does not require any cables or computers.", so I guess you get the bug from the net somehow |
| 15:24.36 | javispedro | seemingly N900 Ovi QA might be harder than N9s.. |
| 15:24.48 | DocScrutinizer | flux: sure |
| 15:25.28 | flux | it would be nice to have reverse searches on the system, like, "which applications are able to receive sms messages" etc |
| 15:25.49 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 15:25.52 | djszapi | flux: we have such a tool called aegis-runner |
| 15:25.52 | flux | (of course, even the forward search should first be there ;-)) |
| 15:25.56 | djszapi | not sure it will be published... |
| 15:25.59 | javispedro | flux, all of them. |
| 15:26.03 | djszapi | should be trivial to put into ovi |
| 15:26.17 | DocScrutinizer | flux: but according to our security expert this isn't sth the user should bother about |
| 15:26.30 | flux | djszapi, I imagine it doesn't have a pretty UI? |
| 15:26.51 | djszapi | flux: it has. |
| 15:27.03 | flux | ooh |
| 15:27.30 | djszapi | flux: also, what I miss from OVI store is that what I linked few weeks ago, let me show it: |
| 15:28.07 | djszapi | https://market.android.com/details?id=com.record.my.call&hl=en -> permissions tab |
| 15:28.51 | javispedro | but, as you can see, the current aegis policy is NOWHERE near as fine grained as that |
| 15:29.57 | DocScrutinizer | and android is way worse than aegis ;-P |
| 15:30.00 | macmaN_ | Sput: what ovi suite version you have? 3.1.1.90? im so far unable to make it recognize mine :/ |
| 15:30.06 | faenil | still, there have been many viruses in Android market' |
| 15:30.06 | faenil | ? |
| 15:30.27 | djszapi | javispedro: I would disagree, but the point was not really not. What I was referring to that, it is nice users can see the required credentials, that is |
| 15:30.45 | javispedro | and I am also quite a fan of seing the required credentials too. |
| 15:30.51 | javispedro | but how can you "disagree"? |
| 15:30.56 | javispedro | it's an object fact |
| 15:31.08 | javispedro | android has tokens for audio recording, aegis hasn't. |
| 15:31.08 | djszapi | object fact for the opposite to me. |
| 15:31.11 | djszapi | they are rather limited. |
| 15:31.33 | javispedro | android has _several_ tokens related to Cellular, Maemo has a the ultra generic "Cellular" token |
| 15:31.49 | javispedro | android separates contact, messages, etc. data into several tokens |
| 15:31.52 | djszapi | they are actually given on a static basics, nothing dynamics at all |
| 15:32.00 | javispedro | Maemo separates it in "Read/WriteTrackerAccess" |
| 15:32.06 | javispedro | djszapi, that's true. |
| 15:32.19 | javispedro | doesn't change the fact the CURRENT aegis policy is much more coarse grained than android's |
| 15:32.21 | khertan1 | need to go on ... bye |
| 15:32.27 | *** part/#harmattan khertan1 (~khertan@nax2.naxos-fr.net) |
| 15:32.38 | DocScrutinizer | khertan: o/ |
| 15:32.43 | djszapi | javispedro: it has nothing to do with aegis |
| 15:32.52 | javispedro | policy, policy, I know. |
| 15:32.55 | djszapi | it was the decision made by the applications, what they provide. |
| 15:33.04 | djszapi | they could use aegis as they wanted. |
| 15:33.07 | djszapi | it is really up to them. |
| 15:33.20 | javispedro | but that would be _hard_ unless you do ala android and reinvent your own API |
| 15:33.23 | djszapi | so I would not feel my responsibility for that :) |
| 15:33.42 | djszapi | /aegis/ did provide a much finer grained platform |
| 15:33.53 | djszapi | they did not profit from aegis that much they /could/ do. |
| 15:33.54 | *** join/#harmattan tbf_ (~mathias@p57A9E943.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:33.59 | javispedro | if you do it the traditional Maemo way, reusing pulse, etc. you need to _fork_ and or patch every component that could even potentially mean a new token |
| 15:34.14 | javispedro | e.g. you'd have to patch PA to check for AudioPlayback, AudioRecord. |
| 15:34.16 | djszapi | javispedro: aegis is much more fine grained than android |
| 15:34.21 | djszapi | the application policies are not. |
| 15:34.25 | javispedro | Aegis CAN be much more fine grained than Android. |
| 15:34.49 | djszapi | and aegis is what I feel responsible for. |
| 15:34.55 | javispedro | probably |
| 15:34.59 | djszapi | and that is something we did more flexibly. |
| 15:35.02 | javispedro | but it's half implemented in Harmattan |
| 15:35.08 | javispedro | therefore |
| 15:35.18 | javispedro | A) you do not get a proper security system with fine grained permissions |
| 15:35.24 | javispedro | and B) you pester developers |
| 15:35.30 | DocScrutinizer | "but our sticky seal tape is really sticky, and 100% tight against all sorts of gas and bacteria - look ho nice it sealed al the windows and doors!" Turns around but doesn't even notice the missing rear outer wall of the house |
| 15:35.30 | javispedro | lose-lose situation |
| 15:35.39 | djszapi | javispedro: ok, but what can I do apart from that we did a great flexible system on our own ? |
| 15:35.49 | djszapi | should I also write the policies instead of them ? |
| 15:36.03 | javispedro | you cannot fix A. You lack resources. |
| 15:36.14 | djszapi | exactly, I cannot do everything :) |
| 15:36.20 | javispedro | therefore, stop doing B. |
| 15:36.23 | djszapi | I feel a bit shamed about what you said. |
| 15:36.28 | djszapi | but out-of-the-scope for me. |
| 15:39.25 | javispedro | If Meego were to adopt Aegis, I'm sure they could make a kickass app permissions system that would be lightyears better than Android's (and probably with a way to override it, too). But that's just not happening in Harmattan, for one reason or the other. |
| 15:39.53 | DocScrutinizer | then please stp claiming harmattan/N9 is/will be the most safe&secure phone ever, we are fed up hearing that BS |
| 15:40.09 | djszapi | well, obviously not much done since February |
| 15:40.31 | DocScrutinizer | s/stp claiming/stop claiming that thanks to aegis/ |
| 15:41.52 | *** join/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 15:47.00 | faenil | and that ends the war, lol |
| 15:48.02 | *** join/#harmattan alxs (~ircchatte@80.70.236.71) |
| 15:48.13 | MohammadAG | well, the fact javispedro's right is mroe what ended it |
| 15:48.44 | faenil | sure |
| 15:50.53 | djszapi | faenil: this issue was overdiscussed couple of times about the application policies, not much to say here. |
| 15:52.51 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 15:53.39 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 15:55.13 | kkito | anyways, i think that aegis is a good "feature" http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQVt43OxDaTc0WAEHAVtL6PV8eWH2bkQbeTaycSF3IYV8bdeK7wb2uIXsGYqQ |
| 15:55.19 | kkito | :P |
| 16:00.20 | DocScrutinizer | kkito: http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 16:00.53 | kkito | :) |
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| 16:08.48 | *** join/#harmattan lcuk (lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk) |
| 16:11.35 | faenil | woot? |
| 16:11.39 | faenil | lcuk joined? |
| 16:11.50 | trx | i installed the new firmware on N950, now when i try to run my app, it fails with some rubbish "X Error: BadAccess (Attempt to access private resource denied) 10" |
| 16:11.52 | SpeedEvil | http://xkcd.com/686/ |
| 16:11.57 | trx | aegis? |
| 16:12.05 | SpeedEvil | I hope not, of course. |
| 16:13.20 | RST38h | SpeedEvil: in the light of recent events, this stuff is not funny =( |
| 16:13.43 | SpeedEvil | I know. |
| 16:14.18 | SpeedEvil | It was a while before I was able to turn off my mums last login. :/ |
| 16:14.30 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: it's as non-funny as |
| 16:14.32 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-09-20 18:08:17] [Notify] lcuk ist offline (chat.eu.freenode.net). |
| 16:14.33 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-09-20 18:08:26] [Notify] lcuk ist online (chat.eu.freenode.net). |
| 16:16.38 | iekku | not really funny |
| 16:16.52 | iekku | miss lcuk |
| 16:18.00 | SpeedEvil | I wasn't meaning the alt-text bit - which I forgot. |
| 16:18.08 | SpeedEvil | It is depressing. |
| 16:18.14 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 16:19.37 | DocScrutinizer | trx: looks like |
| 16:20.03 | *** join/#harmattan ph0b (~ph0b@2a01:e34:ec00:9310:226:b0ff:fed8:2b7e) |
| 16:20.32 | trx | DocScrutinizer any suggestions? i just scp'ed the executable to n950 "/bin/test" |
| 16:20.34 | javispedro | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:20.38 | javispedro | that's not aegis |
| 16:20.56 | DocScrutinizer | listen to master J |
| 16:21.05 | trx | javispedro what is it? |
| 16:21.17 | javispedro | you are doing something horrible to X11, like |
| 16:21.43 | javispedro | accessing sme other other window's pixmap without the proper cookie or |
| 16:21.45 | javispedro | using Qt. |
| 16:21.51 | javispedro | ;P |
| 16:22.10 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 16:22.11 | javispedro | ignore that message, look for something else |
| 16:22.33 | DocScrutinizer | run a X process under alien user account? |
| 16:22.40 | javispedro | it's more complex than that |
| 16:22.48 | DocScrutinizer | or in wrong cwd? |
| 16:22.56 | javispedro | but eitherway, that's outside the point, i've seen Qt do that by itself some times |
| 16:23.05 | javispedro | not Qt, but meegographicssystem |
| 16:23.10 | javispedro | it's not fatal |
| 16:23.29 | trx | it worked before the update, thats why i suspected its the new firmware |
| 16:23.42 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 16:23.42 | trx | thanks, i'll debug my code |
| 16:23.55 | trx | see where it crashes.. |
| 16:24.14 | DocScrutinizer | an srace will be taletelling |
| 16:24.20 | DocScrutinizer | strace |
| 16:24.47 | javispedro | it _crashes_? |
| 16:24.50 | DocScrutinizer | you looked to dmes... *cough* syslog? |
| 16:24.53 | RST38h | is strace allowed under aegis? |
| 16:25.09 | DocScrutinizer | I think it is |
| 16:25.18 | kkito | javispedro: is Qt doing it intentionally? |
| 16:25.24 | DocScrutinizer | depends on the target process |
| 16:25.40 | trx | javispedro yes |
| 16:25.54 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: strace date ->no problems |
| 16:26.01 | javispedro | kkito, no idea |
| 16:26.28 | DocScrutinizer | strace -p `pidof $random-user-process` ->guess will blow chunks |
| 16:26.38 | DocScrutinizer | when done from root |
| 16:28.40 | DocScrutinizer | o/ javispedro |
| 16:30.26 | kkito | RST38h: theres radare2 too |
| 16:30.50 | kkito | it works fine under "user" user |
| 16:33.46 | MohammadAG | anyone done DDP returns? |
| 16:37.21 | *** join/#harmattan CepiPerez (~matias@host115.190-220-96.dynamic.telmex.net.ar) |
| 16:48.57 | DocScrutinizer | yes, somebody did. can't recall the name |
| 17:00.51 | *** join/#harmattan piggz (~piggz@host-89-241-6-203.as13285.net) |
| 17:03.03 | trx | wow, it crashed because it doesn't have permission to create a textual file in ~/MyDocs/ |
| 17:04.39 | DocScrutinizer | which is sane if ~/MyDocs soesn't exist for $not-USER |
| 17:05.52 | trx | it first checks if the file exists, if not it creates a dir in MyDocs called txpad, and it does so |
| 17:05.53 | DocScrutinizer | and even if this was ~user/MyDocs then still root isn't allowed to write there |
| 17:06.04 | trx | then it should create a file in that dir |
| 17:06.07 | trx | but it fails |
| 17:07.40 | *** join/#harmattan eman (~eman@203-214-142-177.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 17:07.50 | DocScrutinizer | btw I doubt the app is using shell shortcuts like ~ for pathnames |
| 17:08.10 | DocScrutinizer | if it did then that's a bug that explains quite e bit in itself |
| 17:08.25 | trx | no, it uses the full path |
| 17:08.53 | DocScrutinizer | mhm, so what's `id` and what's the FQN? |
| 17:09.49 | trx | how do i check that? |
| 17:10.09 | DocScrutinizer | type >> id<CR> << |
| 17:10.38 | DocScrutinizer | in the shell that you started your app in |
| 17:10.55 | DocScrutinizer | id |
| 17:11.07 | DocScrutinizer | +ENTER |
| 17:11.46 | trx | uid - 29999(user), gid - 29999(users) groups - 9990003, 9990111, 9990362 |
| 17:12.46 | trx | it can create a dir, but not the file :/ |
| 17:13.01 | trx | i guess i have a bug somewhere |
| 17:13.38 | DocScrutinizer | ls -l ~/MyDocs |
| 17:13.43 | DocScrutinizer | err |
| 17:13.47 | DocScrutinizer | ls -ld ~/MyDocs |
| 17:14.40 | DocScrutinizer | ls -ld ~/MyDocs/txpad/ |
| 17:15.21 | DocScrutinizer | echo foobar > ~/MyDocs/txpad/deleteme |
| 17:15.23 | trx | drwxrwxrwx 11 user root 65536 Set 200 18:02 /home/user/MyDocs |
| 17:17.00 | trx | echo foobar > ~/MyDocs/txpad/deleteme works |
| 17:17.19 | trx | then its my code right? |
| 17:17.28 | npm | re " i installed the new firmware on N950, now when i try to run my app, it fails with some rubbish "X Error: BadAccess (Attempt to access private resource denied)" --> perhaps using the shared memory extension and need special access?? |
| 17:17.42 | DocScrutinizer | seems your code is doing sth weird |
| 17:18.09 | trx | yeah :/ |
| 17:19.37 | trx | npm, i solved that, it tried to use data from a file which was not loaded as it didnt exist |
| 17:20.01 | trx | i should really rewrite that mess :/ |
| 17:21.42 | trx | DocScrutinizer btw, thanks :) |
| 17:21.52 | DocScrutinizer | yw :-) |
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| 18:02.33 | tomma | note to self: next time use more backup methods for contacts |
| 18:03.24 | piggz | tomma: the gmail integration is great now...i get contacts, calendar and email over mfe |
| 18:06.24 | tomma | atleast it used more advanced vcard format than n900 |
| 18:06.27 | *** join/#harmattan fuz_ (nobody@vau75-10-88-164-23-88.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:12.53 | *** join/#harmattan ieatlint (~ieatlint@tehinterweb.com) |
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| 18:17.54 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi_ (~lpapp@hoasnet-fe25dd00-210.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:18.03 | MohammadAG | 5 software updates popped up |
| 18:18.35 | MohammadAG | one of which is terminal |
| 18:19.30 | MohammadAG | nice |
| 18:19.32 | MohammadAG | new window |
| 18:19.41 | ieatlint | yeah, more buttons in that bar |
| 18:21.17 | MohammadAG | nice |
| 18:21.22 | MohammadAG | swiping left/right changes toolbars |
| 18:23.15 | *** join/#harmattan Khertan_n950 (~ircchatte@AAmiens-553-1-157-114.w92-155.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:26.26 | ieatlint | but how will i arbitrarily change colour schemes now :( |
| 18:27.24 | ajalkane | ieatlint: from menu |
| 18:28.15 | ieatlint | it's just not the same without the cool swiping action :( |
| 18:30.34 | ieatlint | i don't recall if the old version supported multiple terminal windows though |
| 18:30.37 | ajalkane | haha yeah... |
| 18:30.46 | ajalkane | it didnt |
| 18:31.16 | ajalkane | now the terminal r |
| 18:31.30 | ajalkane | is quite good |
| 18:31.44 | ajalkane | just copy paste missing |
| 18:35.37 | ieatlint | hopefully this indicates some semblance of routine updates |
| 18:35.52 | ieatlint | btw, does the wifi hotspot app work for others? |
| 18:36.24 | DocScrutinizer | somebody claimed c&p works now? |
| 18:37.33 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-09-20 11:42:05] <TheBootroo> alterego: just select text, a toolbar appears, click copy, then tap another text field, a toolbar appears with paste button |
| 18:37.34 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-09-20 11:42:46] <alterego> TheBootroo: can't seem to, maybe it's the screen session. |
| 18:38.03 | ieatlint | i can do that in text fields, but not the terminal |
| 18:39.05 | DocScrutinizer | anybody tested shift+ctrl+v ? |
| 18:39.39 | DocScrutinizer | of course after copying some text somewhere where it works |
| 18:40.05 | ieatlint | i can't get ctrl+v to work for text in my clipboard into the terminal |
| 18:41.02 | MohammadAG | cause that's ^V |
| 18:42.03 | SpeedEvil | The terminal certainly said swipe horizontally to change colour when I started it after flash |
| 18:42.16 | SpeedEvil | And it works for me |
| 18:42.29 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, there's an update |
| 18:42.30 | MohammadAG | or 5 |
| 18:42.33 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 18:42.39 | MohammadAG | go into package manager and refresh |
| 18:42.43 | MohammadAG | apt-get might work too |
| 18:43.30 | *** join/#harmattan wazd (~wazd@broadband-95-84-185-178.nationalcablenetworks.ru) |
| 18:43.45 | ieatlint | yeah, also fixes the icons |
| 18:43.46 | SpeedEvil | 'device is up to date/' |
| 18:43.52 | ajalkane | I think the guy claiming c&p works in terminal was confused. |
| 18:43.53 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 18:43.55 | ieatlint | or at least terminal/sdk app icons were red blocks for me |
| 18:44.06 | SpeedEvil | after saying that, up pops a list of stuff that isn't up to date |
| 18:44.24 | ieatlint | can anyone else confirm whether they can open the wifi hotspot app? |
| 18:44.53 | w00t | wfm |
| 18:44.56 | ieatlint | when i try, i get an error saying "Wireless network not allowed" |
| 18:44.58 | ieatlint | and then it closes |
| 18:45.11 | ieatlint | (and wifi does work on the device, and i'm connected via umts when i try) |
| 18:45.18 | trx | mine opens.. |
| 18:45.31 | w00t | tethering restriction somehow? |
| 18:45.31 | MohammadAG | opens and works here |
| 18:45.32 | ieatlint | ok, great... :P |
| 18:45.45 | rantom | Works for me |
| 18:45.53 | ieatlint | nah, tethering is allowed with my carrier, half the phones they sell are android with the feature built in |
| 18:46.03 | rantom | Can anyone confirm, that the vibration is broken? |
| 18:46.03 | ieatlint | ok, thanks |
| 18:46.12 | MohammadAG | vibration is weaker |
| 18:46.20 | rantom | _lot_ |
| 18:46.31 | ieatlint | i get vibration with OSK presses |
| 18:46.40 | MohammadAG | yes that's always been there |
| 18:46.43 | ieatlint | there's a setting for the vibration strength |
| 18:46.58 | ieatlint | try turning it up? |
| 18:46.58 | MohammadAG | it was disabled by default on 22-6 but it level 3 was much better on 22-6 |
| 18:47.01 | MohammadAG | I did |
| 18:47.08 | MohammadAG | it still sucks |
| 18:47.22 | rantom | macmaN_: I btw tried to use bt-headset with Drive and Music. In Drive it was bad, not as bad as in old FW but still bad, didn't get enough time with Music |
| 18:47.43 | rantom | I turned it up from 1 to 3 in new FW, didn't help |
| 18:47.45 | SpeedEvil | ieatlint: I opened it, it started, I've not turned it on |
| 18:47.48 | rantom | It's very, very weak |
| 18:47.52 | MohammadAG | indeed |
| 18:47.58 | MohammadAG | level 3 used to vibrate the whole device |
| 18:48.02 | MohammadAG | now you can barely feel it |
| 18:48.03 | rantom | Yeah |
| 18:48.04 | ieatlint | SpeedEvil: no need to, that's as far as i needed to confirm the problem was mine |
| 18:48.08 | MohammadAG | level 1 was better than level 3 on the new fw |
| 18:48.14 | SpeedEvil | Liking the swipe-down |
| 18:48.15 | rantom | :D |
| 18:48.37 | rantom | Yes, swipe-down is great |
| 18:48.46 | ieatlint | i'm starting to wonder if flash will be there on the release build |
| 18:48.47 | rantom | I'd like it even more if it'd take me to the apps-list |
| 18:49.19 | rantom | after closing, that is |
| 18:49.26 | MohammadAG | it always switches to the task switcher |
| 18:49.31 | MohammadAG | no matter where you were |
| 18:49.33 | ieatlint | yay, reboot fixed hotspot app :) |
| 18:49.38 | MohammadAG | as I said, it seems to be a hack |
| 18:49.49 | rantom | ok, didn't read back |
| 18:50.30 | ajalkane | i like it brings up task switcher after close |
| 18:50.32 | *** join/#harmattan mja (ahdesmak@viherharakka.cs.tut.fi) |
| 18:50.34 | rantom | I happened to get "can't install" for some dev. apps |
| 18:50.35 | MohammadAG | rantom, two days ago |
| 18:50.45 | MohammadAG | rantom, refresh, works fine now |
| 18:50.46 | rantom | I think it was when I installed wget |
| 18:50.51 | rantom | ok |
| 18:51.08 | rantom | MohammadAG: Wasn't really here two days ago ;) |
| 18:51.19 | rantom | But yep |
| 18:52.03 | RST38h | ~seen euroelessar |
| 18:52.19 | infobot | euroelessar <~Elessar@83.149.38.163> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 14d 1h 7m 15s ago, saying: 'and QApplication requires x11 server on it's own'. |
| 18:52.19 | RST38h | !seen euroelessar |
| 18:52.19 | _MeeGoBot_ | euroelessar was last seen 2 weeks, 1 hour, 7 minutes and 7 seconds ago, saying 'and QApplication requires x11 server on it's own' in #harmattan. |
| 18:52.48 | ieatlint | is there a good way to get the screen to stay on for app dev? |
| 18:52.50 | rantom | MohammadAG: Ah, updates. Thanks |
| 18:53.14 | ieatlint | wish there was a feature to say "don't auto turn off screen when charging" |
| 18:53.27 | rantom | Couldn't download sdk-connectivity-tool though |
| 18:53.34 | rantom | Nor meego terminal.. |
| 18:54.37 | rantom | nvm, retries fixed |
| 18:55.41 | ieatlint | hopefully nokia will also get the browser and email client updated with "find on page" and ability to copy text |
| 18:55.53 | rantom | Wow.. The Terminal is SO much better now |
| 18:56.06 | rantom | The arrows really save me a lot of time |
| 18:56.41 | ajalkane | yeah. and doing own toolbars is very easy |
| 18:56.48 | DocScrutinizer | btw, has anybody tested a Nokia multibutton (aka multimedia) headset with N950? |
| 18:56.55 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ?? |
| 18:57.46 | rantom | ajalkane: Oh? How? |
| 18:58.04 | *** part/#harmattan mja (ahdesmak@viherharakka.cs.tut.fi) |
| 18:58.30 | ajalkane | rantom: see terminal menu About |
| 18:58.35 | rantom | ok |
| 18:58.44 | ajalkane | i mean Help |
| 18:58.56 | rantom | Is it just me or is the drople for Terminal-settings inaccessible in portrait? |
| 18:58.56 | *** join/#harmattan mja (ahdesmak@viherharakka.cs.tut.fi) |
| 18:59.29 | ajalkane | i can click it |
| 18:59.39 | rantom | I can't see it then |
| 18:59.51 | DocScrutinizer | SCNR (regarding [missing] support from Nokia regarding hostmode): http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1092494#post1092494 |
| 18:59.51 | ieatlint | just pretend it's there and press |
| 19:00.14 | rantom | Ah, now I see it |
| 19:00.18 | rantom | Had to change theme |
| 19:00.31 | rantom | I like the arrow-control for themes though |
| 19:00.35 | rantom | liked* |
| 19:00.57 | ieatlint | yeah, especially useful in portrait/on n9 |
| 19:01.25 | rantom | Maybe "rotate" to switch themes? |
| 19:02.23 | rantom | Meaning: two finger, anti-clock wise to switch to previous, clock wise to switch to next |
| 19:02.25 | *** join/#harmattan Elessar (~Elessar@83.149.35.208) |
| 19:02.34 | rantom | Grrgh.. fingers* |
| 19:02.55 | Elessar | hi all |
| 19:03.01 | rantom | Hi |
| 19:03.22 | Elessar | I've published FBReader's port to Meego to official site: http://www.fbreader.org/meego/ |
| 19:05.19 | Elessar | I've mostly done it port to Meego, heh |
| 19:08.28 | Elessar | if anybody want, please test it :) |
| 19:26.10 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo (~Timur@catv-80-98-197-166.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 19:26.10 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo (~Timur@fedora/Venemo) |
| 19:29.26 | berndhs | oh this is fun, OCF finds the Device or resource busy |
| 19:39.26 | khertan_ | Elessar: it look like you do your app in qml, and you have made a font selection dialog ... youhou ... start copy paste machine :) thx |
| 19:39.29 | khertan_ | :) |
| 19:40.10 | Elessar | khertan_: what do you mean by copy paste machine?) |
| 19:40.28 | khertan_ | Elessar: i ll look at your code to see how you did it in qml |
| 19:40.44 | khertan_ | except if your licence isn't open of course |
| 19:40.45 | khertan_ | :) |
| 19:40.56 | Elessar | oh, he |
| 19:41.04 | Elessar | it's gpl |
| 19:41.11 | khertan_ | nice |
| 19:41.11 | khertan_ | :) |
| 19:41.12 | khertan_ | thx |
| 19:41.42 | khertan_ | didn't want to reinvent the wheel. |
| 19:41.44 | khertan_ | :) |
| 19:41.48 | Elessar | sources are there: https://github.com/euroelessar/FBReader/ currently at qt-mobile-zltree branch |
| 19:41.52 | khertan_ | thx |
| 19:42.06 | khertan_ | the result will be here http://gitorious.org/khteditor :) |
| 19:42.23 | Elessar | oh |
| 19:42.37 | djszapi_ | khertan_: ohh I think I will try out your app. |
| 19:42.43 | Elessar | what are features of your editor? |
| 19:43.21 | djszapi_ | khertan_: vi is a bit hard to be used by VKB. |
| 19:43.21 | djszapi_ | does your application simplify something in comparison with that ? |
| 19:43.52 | khertan_ | djszapi_: yes and no |
| 19:44.00 | khertan_ | vkb is still hard to use :) |
| 19:44.13 | Elessar | djszapi_: it's also not the best variant for hardware-keyboard :) because of leek for some symbols |
| 19:44.19 | khertan_ | http://khertan.net/khteditor <<< for a description |
| 19:44.30 | djszapi_ | the problem is that, I cannot scroll up in vi, just down |
| 19:44.32 | khertan_ | it s the fremantle variant in screenshot |
| 19:44.38 | khertan_ | didn't made any yet for meego |
| 19:44.41 | djszapi_ | but I can use arrows by the relevant buttons. |
| 19:45.57 | Elessar | khertan_: sadly gui at Qt4 is mostly imcompatible with QtQuick one |
| 19:45.57 | khertan_ | an old version is available in rzr "pseudo" community repo |
| 19:46.11 | khertan_ | Elessar: yep this is why i rewrite things |
| 19:46.19 | djszapi_ | khertan_: syntax highlight for qml ? |
| 19:46.24 | khertan_ | but sadly qml isn't ready to do text managment |
| 19:46.35 | khertan_ | djszapi_: qml highlight is far to be perfect |
| 19:46.56 | khertan_ | djszapi_: just basic component highlighted |
| 19:46.56 | khertan_ | no completion |
| 19:47.27 | djszapi_ | you could take those codes from kate/kdevelop (backend functionality, like highlighting, parser and others) |
| 19:47.41 | djszapi_ | if the kdelibs is not really hardcore dependency. |
| 19:47.55 | Elessar | khertan_: you can try to use QGraphicsTextItem |
| 19:48.10 | Elessar | just write QtDeclarative component on top of it |
| 19:48.52 | Elessar | it's more powerfull, that QML's one |
| 19:49.52 | Elessar | gn8 for all |
| 19:50.01 | djszapi_ | sleep well! |
| 19:57.30 | *** join/#harmattan lamikr (lamikr@nat/nokia/x-qsjslsoibitdsxap) |
| 20:09.48 | *** join/#harmattan Andy1210 (59847699@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.132.118.153) |
| 20:10.31 | Andy1210 | hi, I tried to flash the N950 yesterday and the bootloader is gone or corrupted. Now I can't flash it again. When I connect the USB cable in the phone, nothing happens. I tried remove the battery and put it back, but it didn't help. What can I do now? |
| 20:11.26 | crevetor | alterego: your barcode scanning plugin works pretty well :) |
| 20:12.07 | alterego | crevetor: on and off |
| 20:12.11 | alterego | It's really inefficient |
| 20:12.23 | alterego | I've almost finished a much better version ;) |
| 20:12.26 | crevetor | What do you mean inefficient ? |
| 20:12.29 | crevetor | oh ok |
| 20:12.43 | crevetor | Well I'm probably going to use it for an app |
| 20:12.43 | alterego | Every frame is converted to RGB and thrown on to a rectangle |
| 20:12.58 | alterego | Cool, |
| 20:13.17 | alterego | Well go ahead, but the new version will break the API, though it's so simple it doesn't really matter ;) |
| 20:13.28 | crevetor | Indeed |
| 20:13.49 | crevetor | if it's just a matter of replacing BarcodeReader and BarcodeViewport it's fine ;) |
| 20:13.58 | berndhs | i guess i'm not update the firmware today, not cooperating |
| 20:14.53 | snowpong | Is there a concept of an apps local directory in MeeGo like for Symbian? Ie. somewhere the app can store it's own data that cannot be accessed by others, and which will be removed when uninstalling the app? |
| 20:16.09 | Venemo | Andy1210, maybe SpeedEvil or javispedro or DocScrutinizer know the answer |
| 20:16.35 | SpeedEvil | I'm not awake at the moment. Ask again in a few hours. |
| 20:17.08 | SpeedEvil | Try plugging it intot he wallcharger, and leaving it for 12h |
| 20:17.39 | DocScrutinizer | try coldflashing |
| 20:17.55 | djszapi_ | -n |
| 20:18.01 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi_ (~lpapp@hoasnet-fe25dd00-210.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:19.45 | DocScrutinizer | if NOLO (bootloader) is corrupted, then the device won't show any visible reaction on bootup. Nevertheless you should see the ROM bootloader enummerating USB, when you wat syslog of your PC after plugging in the N950 |
| 20:20.08 | DocScrutinizer | watch* |
| 20:20.34 | Venemo | ey djszapi, how're you today? :) |
| 20:21.20 | *** join/#harmattan dominikb (~quassel@62-47-235-44.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 20:21.26 | DocScrutinizer | of course a completely empty battery could easily defeat any proper bootup even of ROM-bl |
| 20:22.45 | DocScrutinizer | so if you have any option to alien charge the battery, then by all means do that prior to continuing on N950 flashing |
| 20:23.14 | DocScrutinizer | do you have a voltmeter to check battery's voltage? |
| 20:23.24 | Andy1210 | i saw enummerating usb, but showed up the same again and again |
| 20:23.49 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, it reboots when xloader fails to load NOLO |
| 20:24.08 | DocScrutinizer | please pastebin the relevant lines of your PC syslog |
| 20:24.26 | DocScrutinizer | (plus a bit of context before and after) |
| 20:24.51 | Andy1210 | im on windows7 now |
| 20:24.56 | *** join/#harmattan javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 20:27.15 | Andy1210 | but brb |
| 20:29.40 | *** join/#harmattan Andy1210_ (~Andy1210@catv-89-132-118-153.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 20:29.57 | Andy1210 | im here |
| 20:33.03 | Andy1210 | Sep 20 22:30:53 linux-grqw kernel: [122512.544180] usb 1-4: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 26 |
| 20:33.03 | Andy1210 | Sep 20 22:30:53 linux-grqw kernel: [122512.677394] usb 1-4: New USB device found, idVendor=0421, idProduct=0106 |
| 20:33.04 | Andy1210 | Sep 20 22:30:53 linux-grqw kernel: [122512.677407] usb 1-4: New USB device strings: Mfr=34, Product=38, SerialNumber=0 |
| 20:33.04 | Andy1210 | Sep 20 22:30:53 linux-grqw kernel: [122512.677417] usb 1-4: Product: Nokia USB ROM |
| 20:33.05 | Andy1210 | Sep 20 22:30:53 linux-grqw kernel: [122512.677424] usb 1-4: Manufacturer: Nokia |
| 20:33.07 | Andy1210 | Sep 20 22:30:53 linux-grqw mtp-probe: checking bus 1, device 26: "/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb1/1-4" |
| 20:33.10 | Andy1210 | Sep 20 22:30:53 linux-grqw mtp-probe: bus: 1, device: 26 was not an MTP device |
| 20:33.47 | Andy1210 | Sep 20 22:30:56 linux-grqw kernel: [122515.677862] usb 1-4: USB disconnect, address 26 |
| 20:34.46 | *** join/#harmattan Cameronka (59847699@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.132.118.153) |
| 20:34.55 | MohammadAG | does MNotification::setImage() work? |
| 20:37.01 | DocScrutinizer | Andy1210: Product: Nokia USB ROM <-this is ROM bootloader asking for a flasher that wants to do coldflash (aka reflash a broken NOLO) |
| 20:37.31 | javispedro | aaaaw |
| 20:37.37 | javispedro | strings was on beta1, no longer in beta2.. |
| 20:38.22 | DocScrutinizer | Andy1210: as soon as ROM-bl doesn't see any request of flasher to do a coldflash, it will continue and load NOLO to RAM and execute it. If NOLO is borked, this will obviously fail |
| 20:38.39 | MohammadAG | javispedro, apt-get install binutils |
| 20:38.41 | Andy1210 | and how can i coldflash? |
| 20:38.55 | MohammadAG | it's with developer tools afaik |
| 20:38.59 | javispedro | oh |
| 20:39.01 | javispedro | tracing tools actually |
| 20:39.16 | javispedro | probably a dep of oprofile, just came to mind |
| 20:39.27 | DocScrutinizer | err sorry, ROM-bl loads xloader which in turn loads NOLO - not that it matters much here |
| 20:39.33 | javispedro | ta MohammadAG |
| 20:40.50 | RST38h | hehe: http://thenokiablog.com/2011/09/20/manager-resigns-nokia-windows-phone/ |
| 20:41.06 | Andy1210 | so, how can i fix thix? |
| 20:41.10 | Andy1210 | *this |
| 20:41.34 | MohammadAG | oh |
| 20:42.07 | MohammadAG | so apparently the filename was .jpg but I was saving it as a png |
| 20:42.07 | MohammadAG | and MNotification guesses the image type through the extension |
| 20:42.07 | MohammadAG | had to change that to png |
| 20:43.38 | javispedro | MohammadAG: not surprised |
| 20:45.16 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ping |
| 20:45.56 | DocScrutinizer | Andy1210: flasher --help |
| 20:46.05 | DocScrutinizer | also see man flasher |
| 20:46.13 | MohammadAG | naw |
| 20:46.28 | DocScrutinizer | naw? |
| 20:46.32 | MohammadAG | MDialog titles were blue, now they're plain white |
| 20:46.32 | MohammadAG | holy shit GPS is fast on 34-2 |
| 20:46.37 | MohammadAG | and DocScrutinizer, pong |
| 20:47.18 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: would you mind plugging in a multibutton headset to N950 and see if it knows to do anything reasonable with the buttons? |
| 20:47.47 | macmaN_ | DocScrutinizer: oh good thinking i should try that, 22-6 had trouble with next track button. all other buttons worked. |
| 20:47.58 | DocScrutinizer | DUH!!! |
| 20:47.59 | macmaN_ | MohammadAG: yes gps was kickin on our little drive last night |
| 20:49.07 | DocScrutinizer | my N900 GPS had a TTFF of <5s this afternoon |
| 20:49.25 | SpeedEvil | AGPS is good when it works |
| 20:49.26 | DocScrutinizer | haven't used it for several days |
| 20:49.49 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: yeah, I chaneg supl to google |
| 20:49.53 | DocScrutinizer | changed* |
| 20:50.16 | SpeedEvil | It's a shame it gets so confused if the date is set to the default on batteryless boot |
| 20:50.18 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I don't have any on me but... |
| 20:50.19 | MohammadAG | yes, the kernel responds to them |
| 20:50.28 | MohammadAG | and the music player responds to them |
| 20:50.48 | DocScrutinizer | cool shit, I'd like to munch thru the kernel module sources |
| 20:50.54 | javispedro | stupid weather widget |
| 20:51.09 | javispedro | the accuweather app directly updates the widget via a dbus method acll when it pleases |
| 20:51.18 | javispedro | so I cannot capture it and redirect to the metawatch =) |
| 20:52.16 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 20:52.30 | DocScrutinizer | why can't you catch the dbus msg? |
| 20:52.38 | DocScrutinizer | oooh HARM |
| 20:52.58 | Andy1210 | DocScrutinizer thank you!!!!!!! |
| 20:53.08 | DocScrutinizer | Andy1210: it worked? |
| 20:53.20 | Andy1210 | yes :) |
| 20:53.23 | DocScrutinizer | cool |
| 20:53.26 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 20:53.56 | DocScrutinizer | see, you basically can not brick a OMAP system |
| 20:54.04 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 20:54.35 | DocScrutinizer | the plain SoC chip with some wires to PSU and to USB can load code to ram and execute it. No special tools needed |
| 20:56.01 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, they're also shown over DBus (normal ButtonPressed messages) |
| 20:56.11 | DocScrutinizer | \o/ |
| 20:56.22 | DocScrutinizer | I want to get them to fre though |
| 20:56.36 | MohammadAG | javispedro, chances are whether data is cached somewhere |
| 20:56.45 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not too involved and excetied into/about HARM |
| 20:57.00 | DocScrutinizer | excited* |
| 20:58.23 | javispedro | MohammadAG: right as usual, .config/AccuWeather/ |
| 20:58.29 | javispedro | plus, it's QSettings |
| 20:59.10 | DocScrutinizer | harn been born with a number of defects that will either call infant death or at best allow it to live on as a me-too android/iPhone copy, though of inferior potential |
| 20:59.16 | DocScrutinizer | harm even |
| 20:59.57 | DocScrutinizer | starts to get illiterate |
| 21:00.37 | javispedro | is starting to attach to harm... |
| 21:00.54 | DocScrutinizer | mee-too |
| 21:01.00 | MohammadAG | javispedro |
| 21:01.09 | javispedro | specially now that all of my little fixes are starting to work right =) |
| 21:01.21 | MohammadAG | you can get whether data through the API |
| 21:01.22 | MohammadAG | lemme PM this |
| 21:01.45 | DocScrutinizer | meh, I still hate the concept, the hardware, the perspectives, and last not least the mindset |
| 21:04.29 | DocScrutinizer | plus it started with screwing all those that were told meego was the legit successor of maemo fremantle (buzzword "how I learned to love the bomb", one-click-recompile-run-everywhere. A bunch of lies) |
| 21:07.45 | *** join/#harmattan eman (~eman@203-214-142-177.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 21:08.02 | DocScrutinizer | a few hours ago I stumbled across http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Maemo/ and thought "Oh my, how much remaining of all this nice stuff on harmattan. :-S" |
| 21:08.43 | javispedro | all of it? |
| 21:09.07 | DocScrutinizer | orly? |
| 21:09.12 | DocScrutinizer | >>The Maemo⢠platform, first introduced in 2005 on Nokia Internet Tablet devices, realises a vision to bring PC-like features and user experiences to mobile devices.<< |
| 21:09.17 | javispedro | that page excludes virtually anything from the non-qt maemo, which is what I miss most... |
| 21:09.50 | DocScrutinizer | PC-alike features? FAIL. PC-alike user experience? FAIL |
| 21:10.08 | javispedro | so |
| 21:10.34 | javispedro | what's not PC-alike from it? |
| 21:10.50 | javispedro | and don't say landscapeness. |
| 21:10.54 | DocScrutinizer | >>Based on well known open-source Linux components<<? FAIL. All you knew about linux, forget it as now there's aegis |
| 21:10.56 | javispedro | er.. portraitness. |
| 21:13.05 | DocScrutinizer | c'mon even my 30bucks mp3 player is more PC-like than HARM. It at least knows about the concept of a filesystem and a directory tree |
| 21:13.26 | javispedro | sighs |
| 21:13.41 | javispedro | you are talking with the wrong person here then |
| 21:13.53 | ieatlint | actually most pc music players don't do a directory tree for playback |
| 21:13.54 | javispedro | I grown up with PalmOS, and learned C with PalmOS, so.. |
| 21:14.03 | ieatlint | and are in fact more like the harmattan music player |
| 21:17.25 | DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: I don't give a sh*t, as my PC music player has an explicit inport of *FILES* or whole *DIRS* to the local database, while on HARM there's obviously a general concept of hiding dir tree from user, no matter if in mediaplayer, or storing backups or whatever. A concept that already failed boldly on iOS as for e.g mail attachments you get into conduit hell or any other insane pathological state of mind when ignoring such a basic |
| 21:17.26 | DocScrutinizer | concept as directories and fs |
| 21:18.57 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: the problem was obvios even back on palmpilot 3 |
| 21:19.30 | ieatlint | sounds like you have a bone to pick that would be best solved with a blunt object and a plane ticket to espoo |
| 21:19.34 | ieatlint | i'll chip in $20 |
| 21:20.12 | *** join/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@modemcable210.76-70-69.static.videotron.ca) |
| 21:21.00 | javispedro | either way, I usually see only two problems when you got the soup of files approach |
| 21:21.11 | javispedro | a) how you react to unknown extensions |
| 21:21.40 | javispedro | b) applications' tendency to forget about things like the "add attachment" button, upload file in HTML forms, etc. |
| 21:21.42 | DocScrutinizer | never knew on unix were any extensions actually |
| 21:22.05 | rm_work | they're mostly convention IIRC |
| 21:22.12 | rm_work | like using myscript.sh |
| 21:22.21 | rm_work | or else they are for compatibility |
| 21:22.50 | rm_work | but i think convention/readability is the real reason (you're correct, there isn't really a technical reason |
| 21:23.39 | javispedro | and, funniliy enough, browser doesn't allow me to upload files, and mail's add attachments dialog doesn't list unknown extensions |
| 21:23.45 | javispedro | STRIKE TWO!!! |
| 21:24.54 | DocScrutinizer | wich clearly poves those apps been developed by msdos converts |
| 21:25.13 | *** join/#harmattan captainigloo (~Nico@lan31-4-82-227-130-131.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:25.20 | ieatlint | this appears like some sort of pseudo-religious war |
| 21:25.29 | DocScrutinizer | who had a fuzzy understanding of unix fundamental concepts |
| 21:25.37 | ieatlint | harmattan isn't unix |
| 21:25.44 | ieatlint | and never was meant to be |
| 21:25.57 | ieatlint | it's not sysv even |
| 21:26.03 | sp3000 | doesn't follow the msdos angle |
| 21:26.06 | DocScrutinizer | evidently |
| 21:26.17 | ieatlint | it's running all sorts of crazy custom things, with aegis being my only real headache |
| 21:26.50 | ieatlint | file extensions are a well used bit of meta data that many average users understand, and it's incredibly small and easy to implement |
| 21:27.07 | SpeedEvil | Apparantly, there is a vulnerability on the N9 introduced by NFC. |
| 21:27.08 | DocScrutinizer | I'm concerned about that trackerd abomination and the attached concept almost as much as about aegis |
| 21:27.16 | ieatlint | the n900 was for geeks, the n9 is for consumers |
| 21:27.16 | SpeedEvil | Touch the n9 to RMS, and aegis explodes. |
| 21:27.43 | javispedro | the entire N9 explodes, via RFC. |
| 21:27.43 | ieatlint | hmmm, RMS isn't that far away from me |
| 21:27.48 | ieatlint | but i don't want to touch him |
| 21:28.18 | ieatlint | i can just laugh at him because the most successful linux os in the world doesn't use gnu? |
| 21:28.47 | javispedro | like he cares about linux |
| 21:29.07 | ieatlint | he cares enough that he generally has a crusade to correct people in saying "it's gnu/linux" |
| 21:29.08 | GeneralAntilles | I don't get directory-oriented media playback. |
| 21:29.17 | DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: (n9 for "customers") fair point, but then it's absolutely rogue to lure away the maemo folks and promise meego will be way better and the paradise and whatnot |
| 21:29.47 | ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: from what i recall, maemo was always supposed to be refined into a consumer phone OS... |
| 21:29.48 | javispedro | ieatlint: because he cares about _the part people are conveniently missing_ when referring to the entire system. |
| 21:29.58 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh |
| 21:30.08 | ieatlint | javispedro: well, hurd will be here any day now |
| 21:30.16 | ieatlint | and then the party really begins |
| 21:30.21 | javispedro | nice escape way, eh? |
| 21:30.30 | javispedro | criticising the lack of progress in hurd is a nice thing to do. |
| 21:30.36 | ieatlint | haha |
| 21:30.43 | *** join/#harmattan faenil (5d2f1935@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.47.25.53) |
| 21:30.46 | ieatlint | more like making fun of the OS version of vaporware |
| 21:30.50 | faenil | good evening everyone :P |
| 21:31.00 | DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: <DocScrutinizer> >>The Maemo⢠platform, first introduced in 2005 on Nokia Internet Tablet devices, realises a vision to bring PC-like features and user experiences to mobile devices.<< |
| 21:31.23 | DocScrutinizer | vs <ieatlint> DocScrutinizer: from what i recall, maemo was always supposed to be refined into a consumer phone OS... |
| 21:31.41 | ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: yeah, it's not the word of god written there, it's a page written by a guy in marketing who was given a memo |
| 21:32.44 | DocScrutinizer | aha, so I shall GFO as that marketing guy has written shit and you always knew maemo was meant to become a consumer phone OS? Thanks! |
| 21:33.38 | ieatlint | heh, not trying to claim some sort of extra knowledge here |
| 21:33.46 | *** join/#harmattan artemma (~artemma@d85-194-229-245.cust.wlannet.com) |
| 21:33.48 | DocScrutinizer | and that's not "some guy writing shit from a memo" that is THE official Nokia page about maemo5 |
| 21:34.07 | ieatlint | and maemo5 wasn't intended to be for the average consumer |
| 21:34.14 | ieatlint | the n9 was |
| 21:34.19 | DocScrutinizer | so what? |
| 21:34.35 | MohammadAG | http://i51.tinypic.com/28u7k7k.jpg gtalk :P |
| 21:34.36 | DocScrutinizer | <DocScrutinizer> ieatlint: (n9 for "customers") fair point, but then it's absolutely rogue to lure away the maemo folks and promise meego will be way better and the paradise and whatnot |
| 21:35.03 | sp3000 | MohammadAG: goog goog! |
| 21:35.04 | ieatlint | yeah, well, that's a personal opinion on whether it was an improvement |
| 21:35.10 | ieatlint | i feel it was |
| 21:35.20 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: don't start with meego. |
| 21:35.23 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: harmattan is maemo. |
| 21:35.30 | DocScrutinizer | MUHAHAHAHA |
| 21:35.32 | *** join/#harmattan NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD28572.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:35.52 | DocScrutinizer | harmattan is an idiot bastad son |
| 21:36.16 | MohammadAG | gmail doesn't work though, keeps asking for pass |
| 21:36.19 | ieatlint | i like the UI a lot better |
| 21:36.47 | ieatlint | MohammadAG: how'd you manage that? :) |
| 21:36.55 | ieatlint | am curious about the skype support as well |
| 21:36.58 | DocScrutinizer | you're free to do that, djszapi obviously even likes android better |
| 21:37.28 | DocScrutinizer | others go for iOS or even winP7 |
| 21:37.40 | DocScrutinizer | but it's not a legit successor of maemo |
| 21:38.04 | ieatlint | well, i'll grant you that much of what i saw as maemo is not in harmattan |
| 21:38.09 | DocScrutinizer | and there are zillion of devel folks that never get tired to tell us it was |
| 21:38.10 | ieatlint | and much of what i saw in meego as well |
| 21:38.24 | ieatlint | it's a bastard child, but that doesn't mean it's crap |
| 21:38.43 | javispedro | fails to see _anything_ from meego on it. |
| 21:39.20 | sp3000 | javispedro: the word meego? |
| 21:39.21 | DocScrutinizer | as much as a vehicle being a bulldozer doesn't mean it's crap compared to a Porsche |
| 21:39.33 | javispedro | sp3000: where? |
| 21:39.47 | javispedro | hidden between three stacks of pages in the settings about screen? |
| 21:40.10 | ieatlint | if your point is to say that they both serve different purposes quite well, then sure... |
| 21:40.11 | sp3000 | yeah probably in an about screen |
| 21:40.21 | DocScrutinizer | but when I bought a bulldozer I won't need or want a porsche to do the same job with that one |
| 21:40.49 | DocScrutinizer | and when I'm a Porsche driver I won't want a bulldozer to drive the highway with it |
| 21:41.38 | DocScrutinizer | 3rd time: [2011-09-20 23:34:35] <DocScrutinizer> <DocScrutinizer> ieatlint: (n9 for "customers") fair point, but then it's absolutely rogue to lure away the maemo folks and promise meego will be way better and the paradise and whatnot |
| 21:42.18 | ieatlint | yeah, and i disagree :P |
| 21:42.54 | DocScrutinizer | hell, if N9/HARM was the first "maemo" device then you know I'd have frowned at it and happily bought an iPhone instead |
| 21:43.12 | javispedro | you'd miss messybox =) |
| 21:43.47 | ieatlint | you can still do that |
| 21:44.09 | DocScrutinizer | I got N810 and N900 because I had a urgent deire for a *linux* phone/palmtop, not for a "custom customer aegis phone OS" |
| 21:45.20 | ieatlint | yeah, aegis is unfortunate, but i also understand why it's there |
| 21:45.27 | DocScrutinizer | hell, probably even bada and symbian were better suited than HARM for my needs |
| 21:45.28 | javispedro | well, I completely don't. |
| 21:45.40 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: yeah, TOTALLY sure. |
| 21:45.43 | ieatlint | well, rumour has it bada is being opensourced |
| 21:46.05 | ieatlint | and having had to deal with symbian a lot lately, i don't believe that :P |
| 21:46.09 | ieatlint | symbian makes my eyes bleed |
| 21:46.13 | javispedro | ++ |
| 21:46.24 | javispedro | not to mention the feelings Bada evokes.. |
| 21:46.38 | DocScrutinizer | well, on other rumours Nokia will eventually disclose sources for HARM-34 |
| 21:47.13 | ieatlint | rumour also has it intel has a collaboration ongoing with samsung that will be announced next week in seattle |
| 21:47.25 | javispedro | while Nokia rumours are usually true, specially the most pessimist ones, |
| 21:47.31 | javispedro | samsung rumours have been mostly false so far |
| 21:48.10 | ieatlint | i'd bet money there will be a partnership between intel and samsung on an open source mobile platform other than meego |
| 21:48.29 | ieatlint | not sure it's bada, and i'm only 80% sure it'll be announced next week, but i'm 100% sure it's happening |
| 21:48.42 | javispedro | so you're talking about alp |
| 21:48.54 | javispedro | I severely doubt it'll go anywhere |
| 21:49.02 | ieatlint | shrugs |
| 21:49.13 | ieatlint | i've got no real details |
| 21:49.39 | ieatlint | but if rasterman has been in seoul for the past 18 months+ and insists he hasn't been working on bada, it certainly raises questions |
| 21:49.54 | MohammadAG | at some point on some device I thought Bada was android |
| 21:50.05 | MohammadAG | they copied everything |
| 21:50.11 | javispedro | ieatlint: my point is exactly that, 18+ months. |
| 21:50.14 | MohammadAG | then I clicked About device... |
| 21:50.19 | *** join/#harmattan epage (~epage@99.62.35.170) |
| 21:50.20 | javispedro | with less and less info as the time passed |
| 21:50.27 | DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: and I'd not be surprised to see the name Carsten rasterman Haitzler showing up on page one of that paper between samsung and intel |
| 21:50.37 | ieatlint | indeed |
| 21:50.55 | ieatlint | MohammadAG: so you able to talk about how you got skype and gtalk on there? :) |
| 21:51.14 | javispedro | that rumours sounds nowhere near pessimistic enough to be considered plausible |
| 21:51.24 | MohammadAG | ieatlint, N9 RDA |
| 21:51.32 | javispedro | in truth they will talk about android on x86 samsung devices |
| 21:51.37 | javispedro | or some similar crap |
| 21:51.39 | ieatlint | ah, nice |
| 21:51.40 | ieatlint | :) |
| 21:52.05 | javispedro | meanwhile, the only rumour I'm going to believe about Nokia in the near future is the one where Elop destroys the HQs using a giant robot version of himself |
| 21:52.48 | ieatlint | i'll believe all sorts of nokia rumours, just none about anything "good" |
| 21:53.41 | DocScrutinizer | I'm going to believe that I'm not going to contribute for the flowers when in 6 months the official Nokia funeral starts |
| 21:54.52 | DocScrutinizer | wait, all of his organs were recycled ind reused in a larger body, so basically he lives on there |
| 21:56.17 | DocScrutinizer | recalls the VMS crew developing WNT |
| 21:57.27 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia -> MS Opl_jb ? |
| 21:59.48 | ieatlint | bleh, heatwave here hitting ~31 |
| 22:00.12 | DocScrutinizer | toss over a third of it to me, I could use it |
| 22:00.38 | ieatlint | average high this summer has been around 20, i'd be happy to lose a third |
| 22:00.41 | alterego | I wonder if there is a way to fix the signal issue with the N950 |
| 22:00.56 | alterego | I may be imagining it but I think it's the screws that are causing the attenuation .. |
| 22:07.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~weather EDDN |
| 22:07.08 | GeneralAntilles | ieatlint, that's a heatwave? :P |
| 22:07.42 | GeneralAntilles | ~weather KSPG |
| 22:07.54 | ieatlint | ~weather KSFO |
| 22:08.01 | GeneralAntilles | Oh, SF |
| 22:08.02 | GeneralAntilles | Meh. |
| 22:08.06 | ieatlint | cooler at the airport :P |
| 22:08.33 | ieatlint | and yeah, 32 is a heatwave... try 32 with no air conditioning anywhere |
| 22:10.24 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, no AC always cracks me up. |
| 22:13.05 | DocScrutinizer51 | lol, AC rather uncommon here in Germany, and yet 32C not unusual in summer |
| 22:13.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | soon it'll be average |
| 22:13.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | maybe then AC will see a boom |
| 22:14.05 | Sput | I doubt that |
| 22:14.17 | Sput | electricity is expensive :) |
| 22:14.53 | berndhs | or Tambora will blow again and all this climate business will be different |
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| 22:16.00 | ieatlint | haha, if we all got ac units we'd completely take down the power grid |
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| 22:24.14 | antman8969 | so I just updated the firmware and noticed that all of my dev tools are gone... |
| 22:24.24 | GeneralAntilles | If it ever properly snowed down here the power grid would die. |
| 22:24.31 | GeneralAntilles | antman8969, reenable dev mode in settings. |
| 22:25.19 | antman8969 | aah, thanks generalantilles |
| 22:25.32 | Sput | oh, and while I failed downloading all the dev tools yesterday (even after repeatedly enabling the devmode), today I got an upgrade notification and the phone downloaded everything... |
| 22:31.50 | javispedro | bah, without the SDK source, I have nothing to do |
| 22:31.56 | javispedro | *the new SDK |
| 22:37.03 | faenil | good night :) cya tomorrow guys :) |
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| 23:46.06 | DocScrutinizer | http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=31769#post31769 |
| 23:47.06 | javispedro | a thread for the aegis "fanclub" ;P |
| 23:48.19 | DocScrutinizer | I'd add it to the topic if it wasn't too long already |
| 23:50.22 | SpeedEvil | is too mehd out by today to add. |
| 23:50.57 | SpeedEvil | On the plus side, dj was useful distraction so I could complete a letter I really really wasn't wanting to write. |
| 23:52.01 | DocScrutinizer | please share that trick! For me distractions never work for doing sth I don't want to do. They just do... distract me ;-) |
| 23:52.44 | javispedro | yeah, same |
| 23:54.56 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: the paradox in whle aegis "security" is: every idiotic malware could install develsh, and that's why they seem to think they need to strip down develsh to a state where it's not an issue to be installed by default on each consumer device |
| 23:55.14 | javispedro | that's not entirely true |
| 23:55.20 | javispedro | you technically need a token to install other packages |
| 23:55.35 | javispedro | (in fact, it's granted to develsh in beta2) |
| 23:55.58 | javispedro | but, even if that were to be the case, the solution is quite simple. _ask for a friggin password_ |
| 23:56.11 | javispedro | it's not been a problem in way more secure unix boxen for _ages_ |
| 23:56.17 | DocScrutinizer | "they" are completely denying the difference between a developer device and a target device anyway |
| 23:57.09 | DocScrutinizer | the standard answer is "this is not a workstation, this is a user device" - my reply each time is "look what's printed on the back of the device!" |
| 23:57.58 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: (ask for password) don't preach to the choir :-) |
| 23:59.53 | DocScrutinizer | if it wasn't for "outsourcing" admin powers to OVI QA, the whole aegis thing was completely void and useless. Unix has all the needed methods to deal with local auth based administration |
