| 01:01.06 | *** join/#harmattan lfranchi (~quassel@amarok/developer/lfranchi) |
| 01:14.33 | *** join/#harmattan lamikr (~lamikr@dyn60-31.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi) |
| 01:15.05 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 02:27.08 | *** join/#harmattan Smith (~degtep@87.224.132.2) |
| 02:37.43 | mtd | does anyone know of a "develop a QML + python app using only tools on the phone" blog post? |
| 02:37.47 | mtd | plans to write one if not |
| 02:41.27 | berndhs | you should write one :) |
| 02:42.27 | *** join/#harmattan roop_ (~roop@122.167.68.27) |
| 03:01.03 | *** join/#harmattan hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 03:05.13 | *** part/#harmattan berndhs (~berndhs@2604:8800:11b:1:21e:90ff:fe8f:8bee) |
| 03:42.53 | *** join/#harmattan dgilmore (~dgilmore@fedora/dgilmore) |
| 05:03.11 | *** join/#harmattan zehjotkah (~zehjotkah@p54BD7D4D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 05:27.23 | *** join/#harmattan artemma (~artemma@d85-194-229-245.cust.wlannet.com) |
| 05:29.35 | iekku | morning |
| 05:31.48 | *** join/#harmattan piggz (~piggz@host-89-241-6-44.as13285.net) |
| 05:50.29 | *** join/#harmattan druid23 (~druid23@46-126-187-196.dynamic.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:10.51 | *** join/#harmattan zarlino (~zarlino@dynamic-adsl-94-37-135-221.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 06:17.17 | *** join/#harmattan jreznik_ (~jreznik@36.173.broadband6.iol.cz) |
| 06:21.25 | *** join/#harmattan xarcass (~igorsazon@94.79.28.10) |
| 06:25.52 | *** join/#harmattan zarlino (~zarlino@dynamic-adsl-94-37-135-221.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 06:41.59 | *** join/#harmattan druid23 (~druid23@173-152.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 06:44.19 | *** join/#harmattan mece (~mwikstro@mariehamn.abo.fi) |
| 06:53.09 | *** join/#harmattan druid23 (~druid23@173-152.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 06:54.36 | *** join/#harmattan harbaum (~quassel@2001:8d8:1fe:8:baac:6fff:fe2d:73a3) |
| 06:59.21 | *** join/#harmattan dfaure (~dfaure@LCaen-156-56-49-105.w80-15.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 06:59.21 | *** join/#harmattan dfaure (~dfaure@kde/dfaure) |
| 07:10.45 | *** join/#harmattan Anssi138 (~ae@ttihfwgw.tieto.com) |
| 07:14.09 | *** join/#harmattan rcg (~rc@e180222239.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 07:25.41 | *** join/#harmattan zarlino (~zarlino@dynamic-adsl-94-37-135-221.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 07:29.16 | *** join/#harmattan Almehdi (~ircchatte@c-4e30e255.03-135-6c756c90.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 07:54.40 | *** join/#harmattan Stefan80 (~quassel@server.eriksson.cn) |
| 07:54.57 | Stefan80 | congrats on the n9 seems to get great reviews! |
| 07:55.09 | rantom | Seems? |
| 07:55.14 | rantom | It _IS_ ;) |
| 07:55.15 | Stefan80 | ok gets |
| 07:55.29 | rantom | Oh, I misread, sorry |
| 07:55.50 | rantom | But yeah, it's worth the reputation |
| 08:00.00 | alterego | I held one the otherday, do want :) |
| 08:00.39 | *** join/#harmattan wazd (~wazd@broadband-95-84-185-178.nationalcablenetworks.ru) |
| 08:02.00 | *** part/#harmattan jussi (~jussi@ubuntu/member/jussi01) |
| 08:02.32 | rantom | I'm very impressed with the build quality |
| 08:02.38 | *** join/#harmattan aheinecke (~quassel@aktaia.intevation.org) |
| 08:03.06 | *** join/#harmattan andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 08:03.07 | rantom | I couldn't at first find any screws from the device but noticed later, that there's at least one near the USB-port |
| 08:03.08 | *** join/#harmattan druid23 (~druid23@173-152.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 08:04.21 | gri | never saw one in real and also can't find any place to order ... |
| 08:04.54 | rantom | gri: Where do you live? |
| 08:05.02 | gri | rantom: evil germany |
| 08:05.09 | rantom | :( |
| 08:05.20 | *** join/#harmattan frinring (~kossebau@85.183.48.167) |
| 08:05.24 | rantom | You'd have to go to the importer |
| 08:05.31 | Stefan80 | so nokias online shop doesnt export? |
| 08:05.55 | gri | rantom: Austria is about 1 1/2 hours by car but the online shops also show "not available" even though nokia sent me an email "n9 released in austria" |
| 08:06.06 | rantom | gri: Ah, ok |
| 08:06.08 | alterego | expansys have a price for the N9 now. |
| 08:06.10 | gri | and 600 ? is far too much for the 16gb version |
| 08:06.26 | rantom | I read first that you'd have 1 1/2 hours to Australia so a bit "wtf" :D |
| 08:06.52 | gri | rantom: yeah, the teleporter has low bandwidth |
| 08:07.07 | rantom | :) |
| 08:07.10 | alterego | 16G version is 515 GBP |
| 08:07.18 | dfaure | still no luck downloading developer-mode on the n950, I'm stuck :( |
| 08:07.50 | alterego | wonders off |
| 08:08.03 | *** join/#harmattan lamikr (lamikr@nat/nokia/x-tmartixkswgbeelb) |
| 08:08.11 | rantom | alterego: That's less than in Finland, here it was 599 ⬠(523,282 £) |
| 08:08.31 | artemma | were the news about super-cheap Asia price confirmed? |
| 08:08.42 | artemma | the rumors were telling something like 300 eur |
| 08:08.50 | *** join/#harmattan zarlino (~zarlino@dynamic-adsl-94-37-135-221.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 08:09.25 | Stefan80 | rantom: you should buy it from sweden |
| 08:09.31 | artemma | or have the sales not started in Asia yet? |
| 08:09.50 | rantom | Stefan80: Nah, I'm impatient. I pre-pre-ordered in July, I think |
| 08:10.26 | Stefan80 | i wish they added the 950 as n9.5 :) |
| 08:10.36 | Stefan80 | and started shipping |
| 08:10.42 | rantom | They won't |
| 08:10.55 | Stefan80 | I know but I'd like if they did |
| 08:11.17 | rantom | It'd be nice, yes |
| 08:11.37 | gri | This was the same with the n900 ? released in about october and I was able to order one in february ? :( |
| 08:11.42 | rantom | or go cheap and import Harmattan to E7 :P |
| 08:11.49 | Stefan80 | :P |
| 08:12.11 | rantom | gri: It was released in December '09 and I got one for the launch-day |
| 08:12.59 | gri | rantom: Ok, then december :) |
| 08:13.25 | rantom | The original date was in October though so yeah, partially correct |
| 08:13.33 | rantom | Great device the N900 still though |
| 08:14.24 | gri | mine still survives even though my girlfriend uses it now (and she's not so handsome to it as me) |
| 08:14.26 | *** join/#harmattan sp3001 (~chatzilla@cs78207043.pp.htv.fi) |
| 08:15.17 | rantom | My brother has my first and I might try to get it repaired. My MeeGo N900 is idling, for now |
| 08:19.17 | *** join/#harmattan slaine (~slaine@84.203.137.218) |
| 08:28.58 | *** join/#harmattan ML75 (~ircchatte@c-5eeaaa18-74736162.cust.telenor.se) |
| 08:53.45 | *** join/#harmattan roop_ (~roop@122.167.68.27) |
| 08:57.46 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 08:57.52 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 08:58.20 | *** join/#harmattan Arkenoi (~ark@178.177.73.237) |
| 08:59.05 | *** join/#harmattan melleb_ (589f0b9b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.159.11.155) |
| 09:08.30 | Corsac | DocScrutinizer51: do you have your N950 up and running and do you have bluetooth? |
| 09:08.54 | DocScrutinizer | err yes |
| 09:09.24 | Corsac | could you check if there's a syncML profile available? |
| 09:09.39 | DocScrutinizer | tell me how to do that ;-D |
| 09:10.04 | DocScrutinizer | aah wait, I'll pair it to N900 |
| 09:10.55 | Corsac | on a laptop with bluetoot, run sudo sdptool browse <macaddress> and look for syncML in the result |
| 09:11.33 | DocScrutinizer | no BT on my PC per default |
| 09:12.10 | Corsac | for n900 I get http://paste.debian.net/136384/ |
| 09:12.27 | DocScrutinizer | profiles: DUN, FTP, OPP |
| 09:12.38 | *** join/#harmattan jbos (~quassel@share.basyskom.com) |
| 09:12.39 | *** join/#harmattan abinader (~abinader@share.basyskom.com) |
| 09:12.59 | DocScrutinizer | type: phone |
| 09:13.23 | Corsac | you might have sdptool on n900 too |
| 09:14.06 | DocScrutinizer | haha macadr |
| 09:16.29 | DocScrutinizer | Service Name: SyncML Client Service Name: Nokia SyncML Server |
| 09:16.50 | *** join/#harmattan povbot (~supybot@office.pov.lt) |
| 09:16.50 | *** mode/#harmattan [+v povbot] by ChanServ |
| 09:17.25 | DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/136385/ |
| 09:19.25 | Corsac | thanks |
| 09:19.50 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 09:20.11 | Corsac | it seems that nokia is more or less the only one to still provide syncML over bluetooth, android seems to completely ignore that and force people to use third party servers |
| 09:21.13 | *** join/#harmattan mgedmin (~mg@office.pov.lt) |
| 09:29.06 | DocScrutinizer | that's because they did in former times, and BT profiles are to exotic a topic for product managers to spec one out |
| 09:29.17 | *** part/#harmattan dfaure (~dfaure@kde/dfaure) |
| 09:30.35 | DocScrutinizer | I guess n product spec it has "BT: same functionality as N900" |
| 09:32.22 | Corsac | :) |
| 09:34.14 | *** join/#harmattan snowpong (~espen@217.77.36.240) |
| 09:35.33 | Corsac | N9 might really be the only one fitting my needs in the end |
| 09:35.58 | DocScrutinizer | which are? |
| 09:37.34 | *** join/#harmattan roop (~roop@122.172.253.128) |
| 09:40.05 | Jaffa | RST38h: FWIW, my latest attempt at getting a support website into my Ovi submission was also rejected. But, according to the auto-resposne, they've got about 4 hours to respond within the "two business days" to me asking "what the fuck do you want then?" |
| 09:40.37 | SpeedEvil | What did they reject this time? |
| 09:40.38 | w00t | Jaffa: but replying is hard! |
| 09:41.00 | *** join/#harmattan roop_ (~roop@122.178.202.95) |
| 09:42.19 | Jaffa | SpeedEvil: Same user friendly bug tracker without the leading "http://" |
| 09:43.01 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 09:43.03 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 09:43.35 | Corsac | DocScrutinizer51: I'd like to be able to sync addressbook and contacts without having to rely on third party |
| 09:43.58 | Corsac | currently I'm syncing n900 with my laptop using evolution and syncevolution on the laptop |
| 09:44.20 | Corsac | (though it fails with my new laptop because of issues in n900 bluetooth stack, but it's working on my older laptop) |
| 09:54.37 | DocScrutinizer | Corsac: bluez3 vs 4 issue? |
| 09:55.31 | DocScrutinizer | seems all sw with rev-4 in the name is just fsckdup, see kde4 |
| 09:55.34 | DocScrutinizer | ;-P |
| 10:00.48 | *** join/#harmattan fuz_ (nobody@vau75-10-88-164-23-88.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:03.24 | *** join/#harmattan roop (~roop@122.178.209.79) |
| 10:04.00 | *** join/#harmattan achipa (attila@nat/nokia/x-dfhtuwsbhyooncdt) |
| 10:21.13 | *** join/#harmattan NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD288D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:25.03 | *** join/#harmattan Ormod (~valtha@ohmu.fi) |
| 10:25.32 | Ormod | hum, just got my n9 and tried out the terminal app.. but can't seem to get rid of the virtual keyboard however much I swipe at the thing.. any hints? |
| 10:26.19 | gri | swiping down on the keyboard should do it (atleast it does on the n950) |
| 10:26.19 | *** join/#harmattan Tumi_ (~E0294570@dsl-jklbrasgw1-fe04fb00-202.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 10:26.43 | Ormod | gri: on my n9 can't seem to get that working. |
| 10:28.04 | gri | Ormod, then no idea :) Don't have a n9 yet to try ... |
| 10:33.43 | *** join/#harmattan InformatiQ (~rhanna@Maemo/Nokia/InformatiQ) |
| 10:34.02 | *** join/#harmattan M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@mail.melf.eu) |
| 10:36.59 | dm8tbr | Ormod: do you have swype enabled? |
| 10:40.18 | Ormod | dm8tbr: well this is a stock n9 and the swiping gestures seem to work everywhere else so yes. |
| 10:40.38 | hiemanshu | Swype != swipe |
| 10:40.41 | dm8tbr | Ormod: no I mean the 'swype(tm)' keyboard |
| 10:41.02 | dm8tbr | unfortunate clash of names |
| 10:41.33 | Kaadlajk | Ormod: if you swipe from the toolbar it does not work |
| 10:41.48 | Kaadlajk | and you need to swipe fast enough also :P |
| 10:41.55 | gri | if your keyboard draws a colored line while swiping, it's probably swype |
| 10:42.20 | *** join/#harmattan druid23 (~druid23@173-152.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 10:42.44 | dm8tbr | to explain: I haven't managed to swipe away the swype vkbd on harmattan like I can with the nokia vkb |
| 10:44.07 | dm8tbr | for certain reasons YMMV though |
| 10:46.59 | *** join/#harmattan artemma (~artemma@d85-194-229-245.cust.wlannet.com) |
| 10:47.48 | Corsac | DocScrutinizer: well, both laptop have the same software configuration |
| 10:48.10 | Corsac | so it's more like an issue in bluetooth version (2.0 vs. 2.1) and/or n900 stack |
| 10:48.25 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 10:48.30 | thp | what's the component that can implement this: http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Recipient_Editor.html |
| 10:52.55 | *** join/#harmattan merlin1991 (~merlin@Maemo/community/cssu/merlin1991) |
| 11:00.19 | *** join/#harmattan lizardo (~lizardo@189.2.128.130) |
| 11:02.23 | *** join/#harmattan kavacha (~kavacha@134.134.137.71) |
| 11:05.52 | *** join/#harmattan rcg (~rc@fb2-pub-1.dv-nr.fh-frankfurt.de) |
| 11:27.38 | *** join/#harmattan tabasko (tabasko@kapsi.fi) |
| 11:28.13 | *** join/#harmattan trx (~ns-team@93.87.57.184) |
| 11:28.34 | tabasko | dunno if this is right place for asking, but does n9 have any mpd client? |
| 11:29.01 | tabasko | musicplayerdaemon, just for controlling it. I suppose musicplayer can handle streaming |
| 11:45.23 | *** join/#harmattan zarlino (~zarlino@dynamic-adsl-94-37-135-221.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 12:07.58 | matrixx | tabasko: you mean one like this: http://store.ovi.com/content/205748 ? |
| 12:22.19 | *** join/#harmattan ajalkane (~arto@a88-115-209-245.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:25.16 | tabasko | matrixx: just like that :P |
| 12:25.25 | tabasko | hmm, only two stars |
| 12:25.57 | tabasko | but if it works, its enough |
| 12:26.07 | *** join/#harmattan zarlino (~zarlino@dynamic-adsl-94-37-135-221.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 12:27.32 | *** join/#harmattan zutesmog (~timh@CPE-121-214-120-236.lnse4.lon.bigpond.net.au) |
| 12:28.02 | *** part/#harmattan lindi- (~quassel@tachyon.hut.fi) |
| 12:35.39 | *** join/#harmattan juergbi (~juerg@77-58-110-42.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:39.01 | *** join/#harmattan faenil (8372cf60@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.114.207.96) |
| 12:39.32 | faenil | hi everyone |
| 13:11.36 | *** join/#harmattan etrunko (~etrunko@201.53.213.55) |
| 13:12.29 | *** join/#harmattan zarlino (~zarlino@dynamic-adsl-94-37-135-221.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 13:18.12 | *** join/#harmattan Natunen (nalle@213-186-240-19.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 13:19.52 | *** join/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 13:28.09 | rantom | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/n9-developer/2011/10/14/new-release-of-the-nokia-n950-software-is-coming-soon...-prepare |
| 13:28.39 | hiemanshu | is it really happening? |
| 13:28.42 | hiemanshu | I cant wait for it |
| 13:31.48 | *** part/#harmattan kavacha (~kavacha@134.134.137.71) |
| 13:32.43 | faenil | always the same problem... |
| 13:32.48 | faenil | soon (TM) |
| 13:32.53 | faenil | :) |
| 13:33.07 | hiemanshu | yeah, same for moslo :P |
| 13:33.11 | faenil | exactly... |
| 13:34.54 | *** join/#harmattan hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 13:34.59 | *** join/#harmattan berndhs (~berndhs@2604:8800:11b:1:21e:90ff:fe8f:8bee) |
| 13:38.08 | *** join/#harmattan rm_you (Adam@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you) |
| 13:38.12 | *** join/#harmattan rm_work (~rm_you@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you) |
| 13:39.31 | *** join/#harmattan CepiPerez (~matias@host115.190-220-96.dynamic.telmex.net.ar) |
| 13:52.47 | DocScrutinizer | pfff >> Error The article you specified could not be found. << |
| 13:53.01 | DocScrutinizer | aaah |
| 13:53.05 | jreznik_ | DocScrutinizer: ...-prepare is part of link |
| 13:53.26 | gri | Is this really a official nokia blog? |
| 14:01.47 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 14:03.02 | rantom | Shortened: http://goo.gl/VSBWd |
| 14:05.17 | *** part/#harmattan Tumi_ (~E0294570@dsl-jklbrasgw1-fe04fb00-202.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:08.21 | gri | anyone has a clue about QTextDocument? http://pastebin.com/utFsMYCG (description inside) |
| 14:15.56 | *** join/#harmattan npm_ (~npm@76.90.30.220) |
| 14:38.59 | *** join/#harmattan willer_ (~Willer@189.2.128.130) |
| 14:41.19 | *** join/#harmattan ragur (~ragur@g225011031.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:48.11 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 14:48.15 | djszapi | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/n9-developer |
| 14:51.29 | *** join/#harmattan baraujo (~Bruno@189.2.128.130) |
| 14:52.16 | hiemanshu | djszapi: its become old now, the new question is 'When?' :D |
| 14:53.15 | *** join/#harmattan DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 14:53.40 | *** join/#harmattan acidzero (~ircchatte@c-03c5e355.1556-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 14:54.19 | *** join/#harmattan druid23 (~druid23@46-126-187-196.dynamic.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:54.41 | djszapi | sorry ? |
| 14:54.56 | djszapi | It is a blog which will continue, nothing will become "old". |
| 14:55.25 | hiemanshu | djszapi: I mean the latest post on it :P |
| 14:55.27 | berndhs | yes it is important to preserve the archaeological evidence :) |
| 14:56.05 | djszapi | hiemanshu: not getting you.. |
| 14:56.12 | hiemanshu | nvm |
| 15:02.50 | *** join/#harmattan sixtus42 (Adium@nat/nokia/x-jalomhvijdilzopd) |
| 15:03.14 | sixtus42 | Hi, how do I resize /tmp on harmattan? |
| 15:04.11 | hiemanshu | why do you want to do that? |
| 15:04.31 | sixtus42 | hiemanshu: because I am running of space on it |
| 15:04.56 | hiemanshu | sixtus42: /tmp will auto clear when it runs out of space, it auto managed |
| 15:05.00 | hiemanshu | its* |
| 15:06.00 | sixtus42 | hiemanshu: well, my process dies with error writing to /tmp/.â¦: No space left on device |
| 15:06.01 | djszapi | sixtus42: make a symlink in last case :)) |
| 15:06.51 | djszapi | or maybe set a different tmp path by an environmental variable ? |
| 15:07.27 | sixtus42 | djszapi: haven't figured out which one it is, the process is not responding to TMPDIR |
| 15:07.58 | sixtus42 | tried mount -o remount,size=64M /tmp but root doesn't have the permission to do that |
| 15:08.17 | sixtus42 | I miss the old root |
| 15:08.57 | djszapi | sixtus42: yes, of course. That is expected! |
| 15:09.26 | sixtus42 | djszapi: yes, but I expect to be able to change that, at least in dev mode |
| 15:09.43 | djszapi | expect to change the expected ? |
| 15:10.32 | djszapi | Also, TMPDIR=/var/tmp should work. |
| 15:10.44 | sixtus42 | djszapi: unfortunately no |
| 15:11.51 | djszapi | works for me, go figure out why not |
| 15:12.05 | sixtus42 | djszapi: |
| 15:12.20 | sixtus42 | djszapi: because the process is ignoring it? |
| 15:12.36 | djszapi | it does not here ? |
| 15:12.51 | djszapi | using the N950 with the beta2 image right now for testing.. |
| 15:14.14 | *** part/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 15:16.45 | sixtus42 | djszapi: well, the kernel needs to read the /tmp size from somewhere in the boot process, do you know where that is? |
| 15:17.42 | sixtus42 | djszapi: /tmp seems hardcoded, trying to grep my problem maker |
| 15:17.43 | *** join/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 15:20.00 | djszapi | if you need help, first try to write the steps for reproducing. |
| 15:20.10 | djszapi | it might be that you should not exceed the tmp space.. |
| 15:20.31 | djszapi | so the error is somewhere else, and that is why it is needed reported in more details from A-Z. |
| 15:21.08 | sixtus42 | well, I am compiling on the device, because the cross compile is broken. I am very well aware of /tmp being to small, but back in the days I solved it by a remount. Now root can't do that anymore on more current releases. |
| 15:21.28 | djszapi | as I said of course. |
| 15:21.36 | sixtus42 | djszapi: which part of "/tmp is too small for what I want to do with it" is not enough? |
| 15:21.57 | djszapi | how did they make the platform if the cross compile is broken ? :) |
| 15:22.24 | djszapi | well, it was enough for a whole bunch of platform developers and external developers so far |
| 15:22.32 | djszapi | so mentioning the steps to reproduce is really minimum. |
| 15:22.43 | sixtus42 | djszapi: the package is not included in harmattan, in fact it's not even my target platform, it's just what I have available for arm-based compile |
| 15:23.16 | djszapi | many packages were not available on Harmattan, but we did not build 300+ packages in the community repository on the device. |
| 15:24.15 | djszapi | anyways, I cannot help since I cannot reproduce it, and tmp envvar basically works as expected. |
| 15:25.50 | sixtus42 | djszapi: copy more than 8mb into /tmp |
| 15:26.09 | djszapi | why would I do that ? |
| 15:26.25 | djszapi | (although, as said, works here) |
| 15:26.41 | sixtus42 | djszapi: you manage to copy more than 8mb into /tmp? |
| 15:26.43 | djszapi | copy to TMPVAR, that is |
| 15:27.06 | djszapi | since that is what I said 20 minutes ago. |
| 15:27.09 | sixtus42 | djszapi: is this hidden camera? I told you, my package is ignoring that var |
| 15:27.33 | djszapi | your package should not ignore that |
| 15:27.49 | djszapi | if it needs more than tmp size. |
| 15:28.25 | sixtus42 | djszapi: you are very helpful. At least your email starts with ext- |
| 15:28.28 | *** join/#harmattan rcg (~rc@e180222239.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:29.26 | *** join/#harmattan lardman_ (~simon@78.146.248.231) |
| 15:32.42 | djszapi | There are actually several tmpfs filesystems. $TMPDIR points to /var/tmp which is in root, though.....so if you are running out of space in /var/tmp you are running out of space in / and you are out of luck. |
| 15:33.15 | djszapi | mount -o remount,rw,noatime,size=5192k -t tmpfs none /tmp -> What is the output of this ? |
| 15:34.02 | sixtus42 | mount: permission denied (are you root?) (and yes I am) |
| 15:34.39 | sixtus42 | djszapi: and I am running out of space on /tmp which is a tmpfs |
| 15:35.00 | sixtus42 | djszapi: 2.1G left on / |
| 15:38.30 | *** join/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 15:48.38 | djszapi | sixtus42: yes permission denied what you need to get. |
| 15:48.46 | *** join/#harmattan zarlino (~zarlino@dynamic-adsl-94-37-135-221.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 15:48.58 | djszapi | sixtus42: I am unfortunately gone for the weekend, but feel free to ping my on Monday, if it is still ongoing. |
| 15:49.27 | sixtus42 | djszapi: have a nice weekend |
| 15:49.49 | djszapi | btw, what is the output of "grep tmp /proc/mounts" ? |
| 15:50.33 | sixtus42 | djszapi: tmpfs /tmp tmpfs rw,noatime,size=4096k 0 0 |
| 15:50.38 | sixtus42 | (among others) |
| 15:50.59 | *** join/#harmattan druid23 (~druid23@46-126-187-196.dynamic.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:51.26 | djszapi | please paste the whole. |
| 15:51.47 | sixtus42 | # grep tmp /proc/mounts |
| 15:51.47 | sixtus42 | devtmpfs /dev devtmpfs rw,relatime,size=245632k,nr_inodes=61408,mode=755 0 0 |
| 15:51.47 | sixtus42 | tmpfs /tmp tmpfs rw,noatime,size=4096k 0 0 |
| 15:51.47 | sixtus42 | tmpfs /var/run tmpfs rw,nosuid,noatime,size=512k 0 0 |
| 15:51.47 | sixtus42 | none /dev tmpfs rw,noatime,size=10240k,mode=755 0 0 |
| 15:51.48 | sixtus42 | tmpfs /dev/shm tmpfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noatime,size=65536k 0 0 |
| 15:51.48 | sixtus42 | tmpfs /home/user/MyDocs tmpfs ro,relatime,size=512k 0 0 |
| 15:52.31 | sixtus42 | djszapi: the source of that doesn't seem to be /etc/fstab - I am happy to change it somewhere and reboot ;-) |
| 15:54.19 | djszapi | the output sounds reasonable. I do not have right now any other ideas than fixing TMPVAR or change your workflow, if that is possible. |
| 15:56.26 | djszapi | you could fix it up by using security holes, but that is not ethical :p |
| 15:57.02 | sixtus42 | well, like I said, TMPVAR is ignored. |
| 15:57.18 | sixtus42 | djszapi: got a 0-day for me? |
| 15:57.35 | sixtus42 | djszapi: otherwise what's the newest firmware that still let's root remount /tmp ? |
| 15:58.05 | djszapi | sixtus42: sorry, but no time. |
| 15:58.11 | djszapi | I am glad to help on Monday. |
| 15:58.24 | sixtus42 | djszapi: sure |
| 15:58.40 | sixtus42 | week's goal slipping because of fricken /tmp :-/ |
| 15:58.57 | djszapi | SYS_ADMIN what needs be there for mounting |
| 15:59.08 | djszapi | and that is achievable from OVI |
| 15:59.12 | djszapi | so use develsh ? |
| 15:59.31 | djszapi | ohh, sorry, that is net_admin, not sys* |
| 16:00.11 | sixtus42 | djszapi: not really following⦠something I should apt-get? |
| 16:00.43 | sixtus42 | develsh is already installed |
| 16:00.43 | djszapi | short answer: you cannot remount, even from develsh. |
| 16:01.03 | sixtus42 | and where is the mount information stored? must be somewhere |
| 16:04.49 | djszapi | have a nice weekend |
| 16:04.50 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 16:05.02 | *** part/#harmattan sixtus42 (Adium@nat/nokia/x-jalomhvijdilzopd) |
| 16:06.43 | *** join/#harmattan deimos (~deimos@host81-1-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:18.25 | RST38h | Fun, fun: http://www.marco.org/2011/10/13/ios5-caches-cleaning |
| 16:18.41 | RST38h | Welcome to cloud computing, folks :) |
| 16:18.55 | Corsac | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:23.49 | *** join/#harmattan dcarr_home (~quassel@c-24-23-131-187.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 16:28.53 | *** join/#harmattan faenil (4e0d6cf7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.13.108.247) |
| 16:29.23 | faenil | back :) |
| 16:30.58 | *** join/#harmattan randbit (~random@2607:f358:1:fed5:22:0:e61e:7273) |
| 16:31.02 | *** join/#harmattan leinir (~leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
| 16:32.00 | rantom | Corsac: No, not for me at least. I did use some widgets in Maemo but since I started to use CE (that'd be in April) I've seen no real reason to miss those |
| 16:32.48 | rantom | Corsac: Same applies to desktops |
| 16:34.27 | rayyen | anyone tried the "open" kernel on the N9 yet? |
| 16:37.10 | Corsac | on my desktops I have various shortcuts to apps (which I won't miss too much if I can organize the main menu), calendar events (are they available easily?), quick contacts (does it exist) and direct connect to some wireless networks, info about ip address, weather ec. |
| 16:38.48 | *** join/#harmattan Riussi (~jris@codemancers.fi) |
| 16:38.54 | rantom | Well one screen of swipe is apps only |
| 16:39.01 | rantom | Other than that no |
| 16:39.32 | *** join/#harmattan piggz (~piggz@host-89-241-6-44.as13285.net) |
| 16:39.35 | rantom | I'd like to see calendar events integrated to the Feeds-view though, don't know why those aren't |
| 16:39.50 | rantom | Corsac: If you can try the N9 |
| 16:43.23 | Corsac | well, it's not even sold in my country, so if I buy it it'll have to be using side channels |
| 16:43.34 | Corsac | so âtryingâ looks like a bit impossible from here |
| 16:43.51 | rantom | That's why I said if |
| 16:44.15 | Corsac | I would have liked to test the n950, especially for aegis, but eh, as I didn't really intended to make apps, I wasn't exactly a priority |
| 16:44.31 | rantom | Corsac: http://swipe.nokia.com/ checked that yet? |
| 16:44.37 | Corsac | sure |
| 16:44.58 | SpeedEvil | RST38h: get with the program old man! Files are outdated, the cloud is the future! |
| 16:45.01 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 16:45.01 | Corsac | I'm not a random lurker, I know the device, I just lack the insider knowledge :) |
| 16:45.05 | rantom | But in general: no, no widgets, no shortcuts to people/etc. You can make links to sites though |
| 16:45.20 | rantom | And those appear as "apps" |
| 16:45.55 | macmaN | word up, waiting for new fw now |
| 16:46.06 | rantom | Yep |
| 16:46.13 | rantom | I posted a link earlier |
| 16:46.14 | Corsac | are apps .desktop files? It might be possible to put contacts there |
| 16:47.33 | macmaN | rantom: yeah #n950 on twitter is ablaze with the retweets :> |
| 16:48.18 | macmaN | am i seeing correctly, 34-2 has already been removed |
| 16:48.49 | rantom | macmaN: @nokianewscom |
| 16:49.10 | faenil | :O |
| 16:49.25 | *** join/#harmattan Arkenoi (~ark@178.177.73.237) |
| 16:49.27 | rantom | Why would they remove 34-2? |
| 16:49.45 | rantom | Upgrading to new fw requires that (beta2, if I recall right) |
| 16:50.11 | faenil | yeah... |
| 16:50.36 | rantom | http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/3744886f-69c1-4544-8ad3-72b352b4a832/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers_Release_Notes.html |
| 16:50.42 | rantom | Beta2 |
| 16:50.42 | macmaN | yeah got it |
| 16:50.45 | macmaN | nevermind |
| 16:50.55 | macmaN | i used to be able to find it with their search thing |
| 16:51.01 | rantom | And again. http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/db230178-aa63-4c73-ba7f-20930da13cad/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers.html |
| 16:51.03 | macmaN | and my bookmarked url failed too |
| 16:51.05 | rantom | Ok |
| 16:51.13 | macmaN | not important anyway |
| 16:51.22 | macmaN | just hopefully itll get here soon |
| 16:56.14 | *** join/#harmattan zarlino (~zarlino@dynamic-adsl-94-37-135-221.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 16:58.51 | *** join/#harmattan trx (~ns-team@93.87.57.184) |
| 17:20.17 | *** join/#harmattan zarlino (~zarlino@dynamic-adsl-94-37-135-221.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 17:24.15 | faenil | I guess what's the point of releasing news with the soon word in it... |
| 17:25.06 | faenil | It's okay if you ask someone about it, and he doesn't know the right day, and he says "soon" or something like that |
| 17:25.32 | faenil | but what's the purpose of publishing news saying "this will come soon"... |
| 17:25.59 | faenil | it makes some people 1/2 angry, and most people 2 angry... |
| 17:26.31 | rantom | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/10/14/ui-migration-eased-with-new-comparative-tables |
| 17:28.08 | rantom | faenil: I understand but I'd guess it was this time because of: "So, if you have not done it already, update to Beta2 now using the OneClickFlashers." |
| 17:28.57 | faenil | could be...but you could just do both of them at the same time.. |
| 17:29.34 | *** join/#harmattan spenap (~spena@cs27060077.pp.htv.fi) |
| 17:29.42 | rantom | Or simply getting the hype up |
| 17:32.35 | *** join/#harmattan tarantism (~admin@cpc2-cmbg4-0-0-cust642.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 17:34.26 | *** join/#harmattan zarlino (~zarlino@dynamic-adsl-94-37-135-221.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 17:43.58 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 17:44.10 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 17:52.59 | *** join/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 17:59.44 | *** join/#harmattan sp3001 (~chatzilla@cs78207043.pp.htv.fi) |
| 18:04.50 | piggz | lo |
| 18:09.36 | *** join/#harmattan ajalkane (~arto@a88-115-209-245.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:12.25 | *** join/#harmattan [lutunen] (nalle@213-186-240-19.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 18:14.47 | *** join/#harmattan druid23 (~druid23@212-147-26-21.fix.access.vtx.ch) |
| 18:34.51 | *** join/#harmattan lawl0r (~lawl0r@adsl-84-227-18-195.adslplus.ch) |
| 18:36.06 | *** join/#harmattan artemma (~artemma@d85-194-229-245.cust.wlannet.com) |
| 18:36.09 | *** join/#harmattan trx (~ns-team@212.200.198.137) |
| 18:36.59 | artemma | just got official news about new N950 firmware coming "soon" started worrying |
| 18:37.07 | artemma | in Nokia terms such an announcement typically means a month at least |
| 18:37.21 | artemma | hopefully that is going to be an exception |
| 18:37.54 | *** join/#harmattan fuz_ (nobody@vau75-10-88-164-23-88.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:38.02 | artemma | sees some N9 sales of his apps in ovi store - not just N950 anymore. Just BTW :) |
| 18:39.03 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 18:41.24 | SpeedEvil | artemma: Congrats? What are they? |
| 18:41.35 | SpeedEvil | s/?/!/ |
| 18:44.41 | artemma | well, actually there's just one for now ;) |
| 18:45.12 | artemma | go to ovi store and choose top sellers for N9 biz apps - mine is the very top seller there |
| 18:45.22 | artemma | and 4th place for all the apps |
| 18:45.33 | artemma | this one - http://store.ovi.com/content/186742 |
| 18:45.34 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 18:46.13 | artemma | that doesn't translate in lots of money unfortunately and makes me wonder how many purchase guys behind me have :) |
| 18:46.30 | artemma | so if you are interested I am still in big needs of reviews and rates ;) |
| 18:46.50 | artemma | that helps the momentum at the moment of the device sales start |
| 18:47.07 | SpeedEvil | Nice. |
| 18:47.54 | artemma | heh, unfortunately most of developers are totally not the target market, so it's hard to promote in the crowds I am usually talking with |
| 18:47.54 | SpeedEvil | Alas, trying to make the pennies squeak at the moment. |
| 18:48.10 | artemma | what's yours, SpeedEvil ? |
| 18:48.20 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 18:48.23 | SpeedEvil | Oh - no apps. |
| 18:48.35 | SpeedEvil | I mean - saving cash, so not purchasing apps. |
| 18:48.37 | DocScrutinizer | our apps are not compatible with OVU ;-P |
| 18:48.56 | DocScrutinizer | OVI* |
| 18:48.57 | SpeedEvil | I've found I've gotten lots better at maths since I went on a diet. |
| 18:49.11 | SpeedEvil | (multiply 65*2.5) |
| 18:49.32 | SpeedEvil | (small slice of bread * calories/gram) |
| 18:49.39 | artemma | DocScrutinizer: u start talking like @fakeselop :) |
| 18:49.58 | SpeedEvil | I would be interested in a diet tracking app. |
| 18:49.59 | DocScrutinizer | eh? |
| 18:50.05 | SpeedEvil | Ideally it'd post to livestrong. |
| 18:50.12 | SpeedEvil | The protocol is quite simple. |
| 18:50.27 | artemma | "our apps are not compatible with OVU " this kind of phrases is what @fakeselop talks usually |
| 18:50.50 | SpeedEvil | There are interesting apps that can't be done at all in OVI |
| 18:50.56 | DocScrutinizer | well, then I got no f'ing clue who's @fakeselop |
| 18:50.56 | artemma | SpeedEvil: I am sure there's an app for diet tracking on iPhone. N9 is for geeks for now ;) |
| 18:51.15 | artemma | twitter.com/fakeselop |
| 18:51.26 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. But I have no iphone. |
| 18:51.28 | artemma | funny and painful jokes about nokia actions |
| 18:51.47 | DocScrutinizer | but the fact that H-E-N9 isn't compatible with OVI is immutable, no matter what or who is @fakeselop |
| 18:53.18 | ieatlint | H-E-N9? |
| 18:53.29 | ieatlint | other than the obvious poultry comment, wtf is that? |
| 18:53.48 | DocScrutinizer | http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=32766#post32766 |
| 18:54.00 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 18:54.11 | DocScrutinizer | Hostmode Enabler N9 |
| 18:54.48 | artemma | DocScrutinizer: that's the point about fakeselop: he tells the painful truth :) |
| 18:55.19 | ieatlint | ah, yeah |
| 18:56.25 | ieatlint | discovered that the cheapest i can find for an n9 64gb edition is a mere $817.27AUD plus ~$45 shipping |
| 18:56.29 | SpeedEvil | The truth is sometimes painful to hear. |
| 18:56.39 | SpeedEvil | Especially when you have a habit of setting fire to your genitals. |
| 18:56.47 | ieatlint | i like the phone, but i'm really not sure i want to drop a year's supply of beer on it |
| 18:56.56 | SpeedEvil | It's not waterproof. |
| 18:57.06 | ieatlint | my genitals are, actually |
| 19:15.16 | *** join/#harmattan druid23 (~druid23@212-147-26-21.fix.access.vtx.ch) |
| 19:16.58 | GeneralAntilles | Boo, Nokia. |
| 19:18.50 | Stskeeps | boo? |
| 19:20.39 | ieatlint | get excited, nokia is holding an event next thursday to introduce people to devel on wp7 |
| 19:20.47 | ieatlint | :P |
| 19:21.24 | ajalkane | ah, good old wp7 |
| 19:22.01 | ieatlint | soon you'll need win7 and zune in order to make apps |
| 19:22.18 | ajalkane | I'm so excited about the wp7 phones. |
| 19:22.18 | ieatlint | and with the new release for wp7, you can now actually open network sockets! |
| 19:22.22 | ieatlint | revolutionary |
| 19:23.03 | ajalkane | I heard it can almost multitask too |
| 19:23.37 | GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, as in "Boo! Hiss!" |
| 19:23.47 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 19:26.44 | ajalkane | I got so excited about wp7 phones that I'm gonna get up from bed and drink some beer. |
| 19:27.18 | macmaN | another kitten saved by a broadcom wifi going out to trash, atheros going in |
| 19:28.06 | ieatlint | delicious |
| 19:43.52 | *** join/#harmattan zarlino (~zarlino@dynamic-adsl-94-37-135-221.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 19:43.56 | *** join/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 19:54.19 | *** join/#harmattan dgilmore (~dgilmore@fedora/dgilmore) |
| 20:00.33 | *** join/#harmattan mgedmin (~mg@Maemo/community/contributor/mgedmin) |
| 20:06.20 | *** join/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 20:34.18 | piggz | how can i quicly get a MEEGO_EDITION_HARMATTAN ? |
| 20:38.50 | *** join/#harmattan zarlino (~zarlino@dynamic-adsl-94-37-135-221.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 20:41.10 | piggz | ah, just include qplatformdefs |
| 20:56.58 | artemma | to go out or not to go out? |
| 20:57.19 | artemma | really wants to finish next app this weekend, but one beer won't hurt, right? |
| 21:09.57 | *** join/#harmattan artemma (~artemma@d85-194-229-245.cust.wlannet.com) |
| 21:40.58 | *** join/#harmattan seif (~seiflotfy@ip-94-79-139-110.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 21:41.13 | *** join/#harmattan andrunko (~andrunko@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) |
| 21:41.28 | mikkov | great, now Ovi Store publishing is re-testing my old content instead of testing the new version :) |
| 22:01.55 | *** join/#harmattan lamikr (lamikr@nat/nokia/x-runykejrrqtijnsx) |
| 22:03.13 | piggz | mikkov: well, i had to send a snotty email to developer support becuase they failed my content on the grounds it didnt perform its intended function...and it most certainly does, and ive been using it for a week myself without issues :) |
| 22:04.46 | mikkov | they failed mine, because version number shown in application wasn't exactly the as the package version |
| 22:05.36 | mikkov | and already published version was exactly the same regarding version number... |
| 22:07.11 | mikkov | real issue I am trying to fix is power saving and now they re-tested the already published version and noticed that power saving wasn't working, great! |
| 22:09.32 | mikkov | and latest version with version number tweak and power saving fix has been in QA queue two days |
| 22:12.03 | *** join/#harmattan macmaN (~chezburge@138.167.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee) |
| 22:15.01 | *** join/#harmattan druid23 (~druid23@212-147-26-21.fix.access.vtx.ch) |
| 22:20.11 | artemma | two times they failed my app for not deceasing power use on N900 while in background and 3rd time it passed (after some mailing to support) |
| 22:20.39 | artemma | funny thing is that there wasn't even anything to fine-tune. Everything app was about - a single qml screen with some controls |
| 22:42.05 | *** join/#harmattan smokex950 (~smokex@97.sub-72-100-153.myvzw.com) |
| 22:50.14 | *** join/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@modemcable210.76-70-69.static.videotron.ca) |
| 22:50.24 | DocScrutinizer | wonders if Nokia would pay real money for *real* testers doing QA in OVI. *If* they would, I'd probably apply, but somehow I'm sure my ideas are not amtching theirs regarding this QA thing |
| 22:51.36 | DocScrutinizer | and we all know Bangalore is way cheaper ;-P |
| 22:52.14 | artemma | well, if you are ready to move to Bangalore maybe.. :) |
| 22:55.25 | DocScrutinizer | I bet Nokia gives a shit where I live and do my job (well, I hope meanwhile they are that far evolved with their infra and concept) - as long as I don't ask for more per hour than the average Bangalore "IT-expert" |
| 22:55.42 | artemma | exactly |
| 22:56.01 | artemma | it's enough if you move metally |
| 22:56.05 | artemma | mentally |
| 22:56.09 | MohammadAG | I'm just impressed how iPhone devs got paid repositories and Nokia failed twice with the N900 |
| 22:56.11 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 22:56.30 | MohammadAG | I even tried to trick it with apt-get and it returned a 403 |
| 22:59.56 | *** join/#harmattan rcg (~rc@e180222239.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:03.54 | DocScrutinizer | artemma: my mind is evenly spread all over the globe already, it's my grocery that refuses to do that move of mine if I tried to compete with Bangalore |
| 23:04.59 | DocScrutinizer | OTOH any competition would be just a hands-down battle if Nokia knew what's relevant |
| 23:05.14 | *** join/#harmattan SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:09.44 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not against Bangalore IT specialists, I'd just insist in hiring and firing them, based on a rules system that looks like "Joerg got asked to review a difficult case: karma++. Joerg got asked to review an obvious case: karma--. Joerg got not asked at all though the case been difficult and decided the wrong way: Bye bangalore-boy!" |
| 23:13.18 | DocScrutinizer | nokia listen: manpower to hire! :-D |
| 23:13.25 | ieatlint | i feel sorry for the indians who actually are awesome, because they really get screwed over with the stereotype |
| 23:13.48 | DocScrutinizer | actually that's a problem |
| 23:14.00 | ieatlint | because yeah, a large percentage of indians seem to have learned programming by reading a book and passing a test, and know surprisingly little about actually programming |
| 23:14.05 | DocScrutinizer | not in the system I suggested though |
| 23:14.58 | *** join/#harmattan SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:14.58 | ieatlint | i've seen some horrid things out of indian :( |
| 23:15.00 | ieatlint | err, india |
| 23:15.02 | DocScrutinizer | the problem with the system I siggested: Joerg is not available at Bangalore wages |
| 23:15.15 | DocScrutinizer | suggested* |
| 23:15.25 | ieatlint | i once saw a 2000 main function (no, seriously, not exaggerating) |
| 23:16.15 | DocScrutinizer | and Nokia isn't aware of any problem |
| 23:16.38 | ieatlint | another time i saw a qwidget based app in development for symbian that compiled to 27mb, and when run on my desktop, would consume 80mb of ram and ran so slowly it was unusable -- on my desktop |
| 23:16.46 | ieatlint | on the phone it was even more of a joke |
| 23:17.15 | DocScrutinizer | cool, just get another 2GB RAM-stick |
| 23:17.45 | DocScrutinizer | :-P |
| 23:18.11 | ieatlint | yeah, where do i jam it into the n8? |
| 23:18.24 | DocScrutinizer | do you really think Nokia cares at all, after they declared QML the way to go for the next future? |
| 23:19.05 | faenil | come on, QML is definitely useful to get more people to develop apps, and get more apps because it's easier to make UI |
| 23:20.32 | DocScrutinizer | sure, basic is even easier yet |
| 23:20.59 | faenil | ?? |
| 23:21.15 | DocScrutinizer | why not use powerpoint presentations? everybody knows to do those |
| 23:21.57 | faenil | because you can't link them to c++? :) |
| 23:22.06 | DocScrutinizer | MUHAHAHA |
| 23:22.19 | ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: they declared that about the time they started doubling and quadrupling ram on phones |
| 23:22.22 | DocScrutinizer | lease link a QML app to c++ |
| 23:23.12 | faenil | lol |
| 23:23.27 | ieatlint | but yeah, a week or so ago i stopped in the middle of the day and realized "i'm doing essentially object oriented js linked against a qt backend ... wtf has the world come to" |
| 23:23.33 | faenil | come on, you know what I mean |
| 23:23.45 | faenil | ahhahah |
| 23:23.45 | *** join/#harmattan leinir (~leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
| 23:24.29 | faenil | why is QML bad then? sum up, few reasons, DocScrutinizer ;) |
| 23:24.45 | DocScrutinizer | yeah! "don't worry. No matter how many cores and how much RAM you got, we can provide the OS that ensures your PC won't get too fast and pester you while cooking tea" (Windows advertisement. Applies to QML etc too) |
| 23:25.04 | faenil | exactly |
| 23:25.07 | faenil | but that's normal... |
| 23:25.28 | faenil | you get more tech, and you try to things in easier ways with less time... |
| 23:25.35 | faenil | try to do* |
| 23:26.00 | faenil | you can't code great UIs with assembly, it would take too long |
| 23:26.09 | faenil | it comes down to that...time vs efficiency |
| 23:26.32 | ieatlint | qml2 increases the speed a bit :P |
| 23:26.40 | berndhs | yeah but the majority of time is spent making UXs shinier, not functionally better |
| 23:27.24 | DocScrutinizer | yes. 10,000 coders force 1,000,000,000 users to buy 4GB more RAM, so those 10,000 codersa can avoid learning proper coding |
| 23:27.50 | faenil | Doc, that's all too general.. |
| 23:28.09 | DocScrutinizer | no, that's the brutal truth |
| 23:28.15 | faenil | 1) there would not be any apps for the 1billion users if those 10k coders wouldn't have had enough time to write the apps... |
| 23:28.48 | faenil | I know what you mean, some people do not care about efficiency... |
| 23:28.50 | *** join/#harmattan SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:28.56 | faenil | but that doesn't mean things like QML have to be bad... |
| 23:29.01 | berndhs | the intention of most apps is for the user to waste time, it's entertainment |
| 23:29.04 | DocScrutinizer | there would, if those 1 bio would spent their money on *real* programmers rather than RAM |
| 23:29.33 | faenil | berndhs: agree |
| 23:29.33 | artemma | proper programming is good, but I code UI in QML ten times better than my colleague does blackberry ui in java |
| 23:29.49 | faenil | artemma: agree |
| 23:29.55 | artemma | and qml even runs faster on a final device |
| 23:30.05 | artemma | ten times faster I mean |
| 23:30.07 | artemma | not better |
| 23:30.20 | artemma | though maybe better as well, but it's irrelevant here |
| 23:30.45 | berndhs | what the users really need can be done in 0KB, they dont need any of it |
| 23:30.58 | artemma | and, boy, you need to see the QML/Javascript code I had to start with. Still it runs decently |
| 23:31.00 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, and I blow your shit away with a generic app coded in a real coding language with proper toolset |
| 23:31.06 | berndhs | the entire industry is frivolous |
| 23:31.32 | DocScrutinizer | but hey, if everything else fails there's still overclocking |
| 23:31.33 | berndhs | so it is not suprising that efficiency is not a priority |
| 23:32.08 | artemma | DocScrutinizer: it is pretty hard to be beat a client written in qml with a client done even in assembler. Everything has own top bottleneck and for think clients it's usually network |
| 23:32.39 | DocScrutinizer | sorry you lost me |
| 23:33.01 | artemma | nobody will notice that your assembler buttons are drawn 5ms earlier |
| 23:33.13 | artemma | use proper tools for proper stuff |
| 23:33.34 | artemma | and if you are not yet ready to move to India, your development time costs a lot |
| 23:33.35 | faenil | agree |
| 23:33.36 | DocScrutinizer | haha, everybody will notice the 800ms for swapping |
| 23:33.40 | artemma | so we better optimize for it |
| 23:34.14 | faenil | we're not talking about building an app with QML only |
| 23:34.20 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, good night fellas |
| 23:34.32 | faenil | -.- |
| 23:34.34 | artemma | DocScrutinizer: well, for 800ms case you better think about some c++, indeed :) |
| 23:34.37 | faenil | good night |
| 23:34.54 | artemma | faenil: I do my apps in 95-100% qml |
| 23:35.00 | artemma | fast and quick |
| 23:35.08 | artemma | works fast and is quick to develop |
| 23:35.16 | *** join/#harmattan beford (~fercho@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 23:35.20 | artemma | + well maintainable and very well testable |
| 23:35.30 | faenil | artemma: I don't agree with that, because in that case the slowdown when you have a js logic clear.. |
| 23:35.44 | artemma | ? |
| 23:35.49 | faenil | unless the app is very easy |
| 23:35.54 | artemma | ? |
| 23:36.08 | faenil | ? js vs c++ |
| 23:36.53 | artemma | I didn't get the shutdown thing |
| 23:37.00 | faenil | slowdown... |
| 23:37.15 | faenil | if you code app logic in JS |
| 23:37.18 | faenil | instead of C++ |
| 23:38.12 | artemma | indeed, depends on amount and complexity of app logic |
| 23:38.28 | artemma | if I was doing 3d gaming I'd think ten times before going for JS |
| 23:38.50 | artemma | thing is business logic for many-many mobile apps doesn't need any computation at all |
| 23:39.30 | artemma | go to ovi store business apps sections. I would really wonder how many pages you'll have to scroll before you find any app that indeed is better to have logic in c++ |
| 23:39.34 | faenil | yeah that was what I meant... |
| 23:40.17 | artemma | one of the big points about QML is that it is indeed fast enough for many-many UI things |
| 23:40.17 | faenil | well...I have seen cases in which difference in UI smoothness was clear, and it was because of js |
| 23:41.03 | faenil | My current idea is, use QML for UI (animations, transitions) , and c++ for all the rest |
| 23:41.07 | artemma | my experience tells that often clear, maintainable and refactorable app structure means for performance than speed of the underlying language |
| 23:41.16 | artemma | not always, but often |
| 23:41.49 | artemma | I go further and use C++ for system stuff only. E.g. right now part of my app has to talk to GConf |
| 23:41.53 | faenil | in some cases, I'd say, but yeah, different opinion here ;) |
| 23:42.04 | faenil | I see.. |
| 23:42.09 | faenil | .what did you develop? |
| 23:43.45 | artemma | as for public stuff, this one for example store.ovi.com/content/186742 |
| 23:44.09 | artemma | my c++ times were about Nokia's speech synthesis and recognition |
| 23:44.20 | faenil | oh you were the one talking about sales :) |
| 23:44.38 | artemma | e.g. if you use "Say caller's name" ringing tone - that was my first work in Nokia |
| 23:44.45 | artemma | yeah, I am pretty excited |
| 23:44.47 | artemma | :) |
| 23:44.50 | faenil | 2⬠is a lot for an app that has only that feature imho :D (no offence meant ofc...) but if that works, I'm glad for you! :D |
| 23:45.01 | faenil | wow congrats! :D |
| 23:45.27 | artemma | to be frank having my app on the 1st place in the biz apps top sellers... means not very good things about all the other folks below |
| 23:46.03 | faenil | :D |
| 23:46.07 | artemma | I cannot tell the sales number (ovi store terms), but I am really pitiful; about the other folks behind me.. and about my own results as well.. |
| 23:46.18 | faenil | I am working on a simple 3d game...but haven't had time to finish it yet :( |
| 23:46.31 | artemma | good luck with that! |
| 23:46.37 | faenil | wait, you can't tell sales number? :O why :O |
| 23:46.43 | artemma | can hardly imagine a "simple" 3d game though |
| 23:46.53 | artemma | I think there was some clause in ovi store terms |
| 23:47.00 | artemma | too tired to really check it now |
| 23:47.16 | faenil | can you say at least how much you get from those 2� |
| 23:47.23 | artemma | oh, that's public |
| 23:47.26 | faenil | I read an article once on tam hanna's blog |
| 23:47.38 | faenil | that said you get like 4 cents out of a 2⬠app |
| 23:47.38 | artemma | 70%, but it's only if it sells for 2 eur |
| 23:47.53 | artemma | thing is price is real different all over the world |
| 23:47.57 | faenil | better... |
| 23:48.06 | faenil | oh I see... |
| 23:48.06 | artemma | you choose the price point, not the price in euros |
| 23:48.26 | artemma | so from China they may indeed get some cents |
| 23:49.11 | faenil | I see... |
| 23:49.14 | artemma | well, we'll see how sales go after people start buying N9s for real |
| 23:49.20 | faenil | :) |
| 23:49.28 | artemma | I don't expect mine to be the real top one |
| 23:49.33 | artemma | it's quite niche after all |
| 23:49.34 | faenil | Qt Commercial licence costs too much :D |
| 23:52.53 | *** join/#harmattan faenil_ (4e0d795b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.13.121.91) |
| 23:53.13 | faenil_ | connection problem...-.- |
| 23:54.45 | faenil_ | my alterego dropped off.. |
| 23:54.56 | faenil_ | artemma u still there? :) |
| 23:56.40 | artemma | almost |
| 23:56.42 | *** join/#harmattan brenner__ (~lawl0r@adsl-84-227-249-138.adslplus.ch) |
| 23:56.46 | artemma | good night folks |
| 23:56.59 | artemma | let the speed be with your c++ as well :) |
| 23:57.16 | faenil_ | ahahah |
| 23:57.23 | *** join/#harmattan SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 23:57.32 | faenil_ | how much did you pay for the qt licence? just curious :) |
| 23:57.38 | artemma | ? |
| 23:57.42 | artemma | it's free |
| 23:58.02 | faenil_ | but you need to pay if you want to sell apps, don't u? |
| 23:58.10 | faenil_ | buy the commercial licence... |
| 23:58.11 | artemma | sure you don't |
| 23:58.20 | artemma | nokia would have no apps in this case :) |
| 23:58.40 | faenil_ | lol man I'm such a dumbass then XD |
| 23:58.50 | artemma | I didn't study the terms, I think you need to buy commercial if you do devices with qt |
| 23:58.56 | artemma | but I am not sure even about that |
| 23:59.11 | artemma | maybe you pay for commercial only if you want paid support for looong time |
| 23:59.22 | faenil_ | mmm |
| 23:59.36 | faenil_ | are you coming to qt dev days by any chance? |
| 23:59.45 | artemma | e.g. Digia is making paid modifications to qt for some commercial licensees |
| 23:59.51 | artemma | nope |