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| 05:17.20 | pabs3 | what does the default N9/N950 apt sources.list look like? |
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| 07:09.01 | messerting | Hi, my Nokia N9 is connected to my router, but isn't able to go online, not even reach the router web page. |
| 07:09.44 | messerting | "dmesg" reports: "wl1271: AP with dysfunctional ps-poll, trying to work around it." |
| 07:10.30 | messerting | My router is a Linksys WRT54G, which has worked flawlessly in the past. But is is lacking this ps-poll feature? I run modified linux firmware on the router. |
| 07:12.37 | npm | what do you call the "titlebar" on harmattan w/ the wireless strength, wifi, clock etc |
| 07:12.48 | npm | aka the thing that goes away when you go "fullscreen" |
| 07:13.30 | pabs3 | messerting: Googling for that error suggests turning off WMM APSD on the router |
| 07:13.56 | messerting | pabs3: Hm, thanks, I will try to find that setting |
| 07:15.12 | npm | "status bar" per http://www.developer.nokia.com/Resources/Library/Design_and_UX/designing-for-nokia-platforms/designing-for-meego-12-harmattan.html |
| 07:22.27 | messerting | I found the setting for WRT54G HyperWRT: Application and Gaming, QoS, bottom of the page. Have now turned WMM off, so let's see how it works :) |
| 07:23.43 | messerting | I guess this might explain why I have had my wi-fi icon blinking/changing to "2.5" icon quite frequently when at home. |
| 07:32.52 | stroughtonsmith | anybody here willing to test a .deb for me before I submit it to Ovi? |
| 07:33.22 | messerting | Looking at dmesg now, my Nokia N9 "complains": Aegis: cannot measure file orcexec.ImGvbo (process: queue20:src) |
| 07:33.55 | messerting | stroughtonsmith: Well, if there was a reflasher for the N9 available... |
| 07:34.36 | stroughtonsmith | messerting: you done broke yours? :D |
| 07:35.57 | pabs3 | anyone know the default N9/N950 apt sources.list looks like? |
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| 07:41.51 | messerting | stroughtonsmith: I haven't broken it yet ;) |
| 07:43.09 | messerting | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:43.58 | pabs3 | thanks |
| 07:44.34 | messerting | pabs3: this is with devel mode enabled though...: http://fpaste.org/AvC5/ |
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| 07:45.06 | messerting | pabs3: hm, did I just reveal some private passwords now? :/ |
| 07:45.43 | messerting | just googled, seems they are not private :) |
| 07:49.09 | messerting | pabs3: btw, one of them fails when I do apt-get update: W: Failed to fetch https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/harmattan/009/./Packages.gz The requested URL returned error: 404 |
| 07:51.13 | messerting | and the filemanager isn't default I think, I installed it myself from ovi store |
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| 09:29.46 | faenil | morning peopleeee |
| 09:30.15 | hiemanshu | morning faenil |
| 09:30.35 | faenil | hey hiemanshu how you doing :) |
| 09:30.51 | hiemanshu | pretty good |
| 09:31.05 | hiemanshu | finding a date for the halloween party tonight :D |
| 09:31.27 | faenil | oh right xD I forgot about that one xD |
| 09:31.53 | hiemanshu | well I am in India, but costume parties are always fun :D |
| 09:33.54 | faenil | :D |
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| 09:48.50 | stroughtonsmith | Still looking for anybody willing to test my app before I submit to Ovi :D anyone? |
| 09:49.24 | hiemanshu | stroughtonsmith: what kinda app? :D |
| 09:50.10 | stroughtonsmith | a Harmattan one, obviously ;-) it's a speedometer, nothing complex. Just trying to confirm it actually works for people other than me. Qt's packager is a bitch :P |
| 09:50.30 | faenil | I can walk in the house.. |
| 09:50.32 | faenil | if that's ok :D |
| 09:51.18 | hiemanshu | yeah about the same here :P |
| 09:51.25 | faenil | XD |
| 09:51.30 | faenil | oh wait |
| 09:51.34 | stroughtonsmith | haha it might work. I tried walking it to the shops and it seemed to work |
| 09:51.35 | faenil | I can test it on my bicycle |
| 09:51.52 | faenil | I'm going to the canteen in 1 hour :) |
| 09:52.06 | stroughtonsmith | ok, well here's the .deb anyway ! http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8657343/speed_1.5.0_armel.deb |
| 09:52.12 | stroughtonsmith | any sort of feedback is good |
| 09:52.17 | faenil | got it :) |
| 09:52.21 | stroughtonsmith | thanks :D |
| 09:52.25 | stroughtonsmith | there's only two parts to the UI |
| 09:52.28 | stroughtonsmith | tap will change the unit |
| 09:52.30 | faenil | do you want me to test it on n950 or n9? |
| 09:52.35 | stroughtonsmith | and double tap will flip it in 3D |
| 09:52.41 | stroughtonsmith | either device is fine |
| 09:52.41 | faenil | wow :) |
| 09:52.45 | stroughtonsmith | it looks nicer on the N9 ;) |
| 09:52.54 | faenil | eheh |
| 09:53.49 | faenil | connecting n9, had never done that before :) Unpacked it yesterday ^^ |
| 09:54.03 | stroughtonsmith | what color did you get? :D |
| 09:54.27 | hiemanshu | faenil: from Qt Dev Days/ |
| 09:54.32 | hiemanshu | or you paid for it? |
| 09:54.49 | faenil | devdays :P |
| 09:54.51 | faenil | Cyan ^_^ |
| 09:54.54 | faenil | as everyone else there : |
| 09:54.57 | faenil | :P |
| 09:55.01 | stroughtonsmith | lucky :P I paid for mine, couldn't make it to devdays |
| 09:55.03 | hiemanshu | I see |
| 09:55.16 | faenil | stroughtonsmith: oh, unlucky :) |
| 09:55.25 | stroughtonsmith | I wonder if Nokia is going to swap the N950s for N9 units at a later date. I'm not giving mine back! |
| 09:55.43 | stroughtonsmith | nah, I'm happy to pay to support the N9 and Harmattan |
| 09:56.06 | faenil | sure |
| 09:56.16 | faenil | I don't use phys keyboard |
| 09:56.20 | faenil | so N9 is okay to me :) |
| 09:59.29 | faenil | damn |
| 09:59.34 | faenil | I did not have terminal on n9 yet xD |
| 09:59.38 | faenil | downloading :D |
| 09:59.45 | stroughtonsmith | haha |
| 09:59.50 | stroughtonsmith | you can bluetooth it across too |
| 09:59.56 | stroughtonsmith | or type urls :D |
| 10:00.16 | faenil | yeah that's probably better, lol |
| 10:00.46 | *** join/#harmattan NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) |
| 10:01.24 | rantom | For UK-residents: http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/10/buy-nokia-n9-64gb-sim-freeunlocked-black-reviews/?utm_campaign=NokiaNews&utm_medium=Twitter&utm_source=SNS.analytics |
| 10:04.20 | stroughtonsmith | Expansys USA have been selling the 64GB versions too; it's where I got my Cyan |
| 10:07.08 | rantom | Hmm. I checked the Ovi Store and there was an option for "Themes". It's currently empty but does that mean that there could be themes to download in future? |
| 10:07.28 | rantom | I remember hearing something about the SDK not having those files necessary to make themes? |
| 10:07.52 | stroughtonsmith | hmm? There used to be two themes on the N950 that you could switch between |
| 10:07.56 | stroughtonsmith | not that you would want to |
| 10:08.11 | rantom | (And at the moment you can't enable custom themes, if I'm not mistaken, from the UI) |
| 10:08.21 | rantom | hmm, ok |
| 10:08.35 | stroughtonsmith | one of the old sdk apps, a qt demo app, let you change theme |
| 10:08.53 | rantom | Aah, ok |
| 10:08.55 | *** join/#harmattan Stecchino (~bart@amarok/developer/Stecchino) |
| 10:08.59 | rantom | So as in: no, no themes as of yet |
| 10:09.12 | rantom | I don't mind though, just wondering |
| 10:09.43 | Stecchino | I can't get the N9 to download map data. Keeps telling me to use wifi even though I'm already connected |
| 10:12.03 | faenil | stroughtonsmith: oh it uses gps...I thought it used accelerometers :) |
| 10:12.13 | stroughtonsmith | faenil: haha no, no. GPS |
| 10:12.18 | faenil | then I can't use it at home, I'll wait for the canteen in 10-20min :) |
| 10:12.20 | stroughtonsmith | it's speed not acceleration |
| 10:12.26 | faenil | right lol |
| 10:12.27 | stroughtonsmith | well does the rest of the UI work for you? |
| 10:12.29 | faenil | ahahah |
| 10:12.39 | stroughtonsmith | I keep feeling I'm forgetting something |
| 10:12.52 | faenil | I actually feel a bit lost :D |
| 10:12.55 | faenil | this screen popped up |
| 10:13.06 | faenil | with the gps img blinking |
| 10:13.17 | faenil | and background :) |
| 10:13.17 | stroughtonsmith | that's the app :P |
| 10:13.37 | faenil | that was a way to say "add some text" :D |
| 10:13.47 | stroughtonsmith | tap to change, double tap to flip |
| 10:13.53 | faenil | like don't know, maybe a little arrow, you press on it and you see current info |
| 10:13.54 | stroughtonsmith | add text? lol |
| 10:14.12 | stroughtonsmith | the current info shows if there's current info ;) |
| 10:14.32 | faenil | ok but atm I could think it's stuck :D |
| 10:14.48 | stroughtonsmith | that's why the gps image flashes! :D |
| 10:14.52 | faenil | something like waiting for gps signal... |
| 10:14.54 | faenil | I know :P |
| 10:15.07 | stroughtonsmith | more text means more to localize, more to get wrong |
| 10:15.14 | faenil | right you're right |
| 10:15.22 | faenil | I'm just telling you my opinion as a user |
| 10:15.24 | faenil | :) |
| 10:15.29 | stroughtonsmith | sure thing |
| 10:15.45 | stroughtonsmith | I'm totally ignoring it, of course :D but thanks. This matches what we have on all other platforms now |
| 10:15.51 | faenil | Like what if the img is blinking but the gps connection is not being established and hasn't even tried to localize me... |
| 10:15.54 | faenil | or things like that :D |
| 10:16.08 | faenil | ok good, than it's ok ;) |
| 10:16.13 | stroughtonsmith | well if there's no gps signal, the app can't do much |
| 10:16.22 | stroughtonsmith | flashing image says no signal |
| 10:16.24 | faenil | sure...you don't get me :D |
| 10:16.31 | stroughtonsmith | no way to magically get signal without moving |
| 10:16.33 | stroughtonsmith | haha |
| 10:16.43 | faenil | listen more carefully :D |
| 10:17.13 | faenil | I don't know if it's just me...but I wouldn't trust an image... that's it ;) |
| 10:17.16 | stroughtonsmith | nah you're making a distinction where there is none, for a user |
| 10:17.27 | faenil | and what also why gps softwares use "waiting for signal" as well |
| 10:17.33 | stroughtonsmith | if there's no connection, you get no speed |
| 10:17.40 | faenil | I knoooooooooooooow XD |
| 10:18.01 | stroughtonsmith | I don't need to spell it out for people, it's a binary state as far as they're concerned haha |
| 10:18.08 | faenil | but tell the user you're trying to connect other than with an image! that's what I'm saying, my opinion ofc :D |
| 10:18.09 | stroughtonsmith | gps or no gps :D |
| 10:18.31 | stroughtonsmith | you're over thinking it |
| 10:18.49 | faenil | ok, as you wish :) It's more of psycological thing...I don't trust images...and don't know if other people do :) |
| 10:18.52 | faenil | ok ;) |
| 10:18.56 | stroughtonsmith | haha |
| 10:19.05 | stroughtonsmith | sure, I like numbers |
| 10:19.07 | faenil | decision is yours ;) I'm just giving out my pov :) |
| 10:19.40 | faenil | like also a flashing text that says "Waiting for GPS Signal" :P (lol) |
| 10:19.41 | Lilltiger | i do agree with faenil, use text and image or just text, only image is not a good way because images can be enterpited in meny different ways |
| 10:19.52 | faenil | yeeey XD I'm not mad XD |
| 10:20.37 | Lilltiger | it's like the "red" for "danger" myth, in some cultures "red" means "safe" |
| 10:20.39 | stroughtonsmith | haha, not going to change the app after 4 years on the market ;-) image and text is absolutely not necessary here |
| 10:21.36 | faenil | stroughtonsmith, yeah I got that your app is already there ;) People might have got used to it... ;) but don't be close-minded in any case ;) Apps can always improve (not meaning to offend in any way ;) ) |
| 10:21.47 | Lilltiger | and refusal to improve already excisting applications, because they been like that for years, is a major designer flaw. |
| 10:21.58 | stroughtonsmith | nah, adding text detracts from the app, I've had it with text and without before |
| 10:22.03 | stroughtonsmith | people like it simple |
| 10:22.11 | Lilltiger | yes and simple is text |
| 10:22.12 | faenil | stroughtonsmith: ok :) |
| 10:22.19 | stroughtonsmith | design wise, it looks way better without text |
| 10:22.33 | stroughtonsmith | and it doesn't confuse people, the app either works or doesn't |
| 10:22.48 | stroughtonsmith | it's designed around being a single function app |
| 10:23.03 | faenil | hey, it's his app, we've told what we thought :) let's stop it here ;) |
| 10:23.17 | faenil | stroughtonsmith: no problem ;) |
| 10:23.30 | stroughtonsmith | thanks for testing tho |
| 10:23.42 | faenil | Time to go to the canteen :) |
| 10:23.51 | faenil | I'll be reporting after lunch, lol :) |
| 10:24.07 | stroughtonsmith | :D let me know if it's way off or something |
| 10:24.13 | faenil | sure |
| 10:24.24 | stroughtonsmith | I don't know whether to trust the GPS data from the N9 yet |
| 10:24.25 | stroughtonsmith | haha |
| 10:24.38 | faenil | lol |
| 10:24.47 | faenil | cya later |
| 10:24.57 | Stecchino | can anyone test if maps offline download is working at the moment (server mightbe down) |
| 10:25.05 | Stecchino | might be a local issues |
| 10:26.38 | stroughtonsmith | Stecchino: seems to be working here in san francisco |
| 10:26.44 | Stecchino | damn |
| 10:27.01 | Stecchino | if the server is down, will the app show the "connect over wifi" message? |
| 10:27.28 | Stecchino | is there a screenshot button shortcut? |
| 10:27.34 | Stecchino | want to report this bug |
| 10:27.47 | stroughtonsmith | i've been using the screenshot app on the store for this :/ |
| 10:27.56 | stroughtonsmith | cover the light sensor, etc |
| 10:29.33 | Stecchino | hm, working on the N950 but not on the N9 |
| 10:29.43 | Stecchino | maps download that is |
| 10:30.22 | Stecchino | stroughtonsmith: which one works best: screenshotMee or Screen capture? |
| 10:30.40 | stroughtonsmith | the icon looks like two N9s beside each other at an angle |
| 10:30.51 | stroughtonsmith | runs in the background, allows you take a shot whenever you cover the sensor |
| 10:30.56 | Stecchino | screenshotMee it is |
| 10:30.59 | stroughtonsmith | I think it's pretty sucky, but was the best I found |
| 10:31.10 | Stecchino | the other one looks like a quickly put together hack |
| 10:31.23 | Stecchino | with it's MS paint icon and all |
| 10:33.00 | Stecchino | where is the light sensor on the N9? |
| 10:33.26 | stroughtonsmith | top right |
| 10:33.30 | stroughtonsmith | beside the logo |
| 10:33.43 | Stecchino | just put my hand all over it, worked fine |
| 10:33.47 | Stecchino | but I'll remember |
| 10:33.54 | Stecchino | on the N960 it's obvious |
| 10:34.16 | stroughtonsmith | yeah it is a bit more hidden on the N9 |
| 10:34.22 | stroughtonsmith | you can just about see it with correct lighting |
| 10:55.26 | Arkenoi | well, i disassembled my metawatch, took the battery out, inspected it, found nothing suspicious (i do not have a multimeter here) and but it back in. now it works almost as expected. must be a contact problem or something |
| 10:55.46 | matrixx | rantom: stroughtonsmith: the SDK allows theme change, I've actually done app that changes theme |
| 10:55.51 | matrixx | just have to polish th UI |
| 10:55.53 | matrixx | *the |
| 10:56.06 | stroughtonsmith | matrixx: neat |
| 10:56.08 | rantom | matrixx: Oh, great. Thanks |
| 10:56.12 | matrixx | and need to figure out which capabilities I'll need to reboot the phone |
| 10:56.22 | matrixx | cause theme change needs reboot to work correctly |
| 10:56.34 | rantom | Just like in Maemo |
| 10:56.38 | matrixx | now what I need is now custom themes :P~ |
| 10:57.02 | matrixx | I'll write a blog post about how to do custom themes |
| 10:57.09 | matrixx | I just don't have the graphic skills myself |
| 10:57.51 | rantom | I'd probably be able to quickly make a Windows Phone-theme |
| 10:57.58 | hiemanshu | nooooooooo |
| 10:58.00 | rantom | 512x512 square |
| 10:58.01 | rantom | Done |
| 10:58.01 | rantom | :D |
| 10:58.05 | matrixx | rantom, will it be called "fake" :D |
| 10:58.42 | rantom | :D |
| 10:59.00 | *** join/#harmattan Ans5i (~ae@a83-245-236-219.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 10:59.10 | Ans5i | [][][][] |
| 10:59.23 | rantom | How about "square"? |
| 10:59.26 | matrixx | Ans5i: yes, just like that :) |
| 10:59.27 | Ans5i | oops, i accidentally windows |
| 10:59.53 | matrixx | or "elop" |
| 11:00.15 | Ans5i | joo, ei loppiainen kesää tee |
| 11:00.24 | Ans5i | just kidding. |
| 11:00.24 | rantom | Then I'd have to change to bootloader too |
| 11:00.36 | matrixx | hehe |
| 11:01.17 | rantom | I think this would be appropriate for that: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/707/elopdartboard.jpg/ |
| 11:02.01 | matrixx | :] |
| 11:02.34 | rantom | matrixx: Are the files in .SVG? |
| 11:02.39 | rantom | I think so.. |
| 11:09.20 | matrixx | no, they are .png |
| 11:09.47 | matrixx | actually it's so easy to make the theme, I can share it now :) |
| 11:10.09 | matrixx | icons are in /usr/share/themes/blanco/meegotouch/icons |
| 11:10.34 | matrixx | take note of the icon names and replace as many as you like with your own |
| 11:10.55 | matrixx | push them to /usr/share/themes/yourthemename/meegotouch/icons |
| 11:11.37 | rzr | hi |
| 11:11.45 | rzr | i obs still available ? |
| 11:11.48 | matrixx | copy /usr/share/themes/blanco/index.theme to corresponding place in your theme folder |
| 11:11.49 | rzr | is .. |
| 11:12.05 | matrixx | and replace the info in that file with your own, inherit from blanco :) |
| 11:12.09 | matrixx | that's it |
| 11:13.16 | matrixx | I would recommend to keep the graphics size the same as the original though |
| 11:13.48 | Arkenoi | wonders why there is no way to filter out media and bookmarks in ovi store |
| 11:21.37 | matrixx | have to polish the UI some other day, tomorrow probably |
| 11:21.49 | matrixx | now off to play some board games with "real" people :D |
| 11:26.43 | *** join/#harmattan faenil (4e0d6c8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.13.108.140) |
| 11:26.47 | faenil | back :) |
| 11:27.17 | hiemanshu | front (: |
| 11:27.26 | faenil | stroughtonsmith : you there? |
| 11:27.34 | faenil | hiemanshu: lol man that was sad XD |
| 11:27.47 | hiemanshu | faenil: I know :P I am just bored as hell |
| 11:28.00 | faenil | XD |
| 11:28.09 | faenil | if you want I need help with 3d :) |
| 11:28.15 | faenil | ehheehe |
| 11:28.32 | rantom | matrixx: Cool, thanks for the info. I might take a look of theming in future |
| 11:28.35 | hiemanshu | I haven't written code in almost a month now faenil |
| 11:28.57 | faenil | hiemanshu: I can bring you back to life, are you good at 3d graphics? |
| 11:29.06 | hiemanshu | faenil: nope |
| 11:29.16 | faenil | dammit xD |
| 11:29.20 | hiemanshu | haha |
| 11:29.27 | hiemanshu | well I dont mind learning something new :) |
| 11:29.36 | faenil | raypicking is getting the hell out of me |
| 11:29.37 | faenil | :) |
| 11:29.46 | hiemanshu | raypicking? its a game? |
| 11:30.12 | faenil | yup |
| 11:30.19 | faenil | Without using qt3d or stuff |
| 11:30.25 | faenil | just qtopengl and opengles 2 |
| 11:30.31 | faenil | I'm doing everything myself |
| 11:31.07 | stroughtonsmith | faenil: yeah I'm here |
| 11:31.20 | faenil | good |
| 11:31.24 | faenil | tested the app ;) |
| 11:31.30 | stroughtonsmith | oh sweet |
| 11:31.33 | faenil | and here's my short review and report :) |
| 11:31.34 | stroughtonsmith | did it work at all? |
| 11:31.58 | faenil | 1) Took 8 minutes to get gps signal from cold chip, not app's fault, but still |
| 11:32.31 | faenil | 2) after 30minutes I tried again, it took 5 seconds |
| 11:33.06 | faenil | that's about signal :) |
| 11:33.13 | faenil | now about the app: |
| 11:33.41 | faenil | 1) It workish, speed is +/- 2km/h |
| 11:33.58 | faenil | I mean, if you're walking you get from 3 to 7 even if speed is always 5 |
| 11:34.05 | faenil | same on bicyle |
| 11:34.24 | stroughtonsmith | sounds about right for a phone GPS without a gyro |
| 11:34.50 | faenil | yeah |
| 11:35.00 | faenil | but thing is |
| 11:35.08 | faenil | I could not get anything below 3km/h |
| 11:35.22 | faenil | that could be app's fault :) |
| 11:35.28 | faenil | or choice... |
| 11:35.35 | *** join/#harmattan leinir (~leinir@93-97-163-190.zone5.bethere.co.uk) |
| 11:35.35 | *** join/#harmattan leinir (~leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
| 11:35.37 | stroughtonsmith | I ignore anything slower than that, it's too low to get an accurate reading |
| 11:35.50 | stroughtonsmith | I've seen it go from 0-4 while standing still |
| 11:36.02 | faenil | ok, well everything seems to work then |
| 11:36.09 | stroughtonsmith | sweet! Thanks! |
| 11:36.12 | faenil | np ;) |
| 11:36.27 | faenil | I'd suggest trying it on n950 newer fw too |
| 11:36.27 | faenil | because it broke my app |
| 11:36.37 | stroughtonsmith | yeah I've tried it on my n950, seems to work |
| 11:37.41 | faenil | ok |
| 11:48.07 | *** join/#harmattan strannik1 (~Strannik@81.5.157.62) |
| 11:48.11 | strannik1 | Ello |
| 11:48.47 | jabis | :) |
| 11:53.03 | faenil | hey |
| 11:54.04 | strannik1 | Ouch , no meego harmattan talk in meego :( |
| 12:02.47 | rzr | obs seems ok |
| 12:03.33 | rzr | strannik1: Ouch , no meego harmattan talk in meego |
| 12:03.34 | rzr | ?? |
| 12:03.46 | rzr | anyway i feel we should use maemo boards |
| 12:07.56 | *** join/#harmattan wook (~user@idmm.gprs.19522256-77.bih.net.ba) |
| 12:07.56 | wook | hello |
| 12:21.34 | *** join/#harmattan messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 12:24.21 | faenil | is there any way to build a custom firmware for harmattan? |
| 12:24.47 | hiemanshu | dont think so |
| 12:25.12 | faenil | is the problems in repacking or unpacking as well? |
| 12:26.46 | MohammadAG | probably certificates for reflashing |
| 12:27.40 | DocScrutinizer | you can't flash images that aren't correctly signed |
| 12:28.19 | faenil | MohammadAG and DocScrutinizer: but we don't need that with Moslo, do we? :P |
| 12:28.29 | MohammadAG | then it's not Harmattan |
| 12:28.31 | DocScrutinizer | (not that I ever heard of a flashable custom image for e.g. N900, even though this wouldn't need any signing) |
| 12:28.41 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I've done it once I think |
| 12:28.54 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: i have a guide for n900, n9/n950 is erm, more difficult |
| 12:28.58 | MohammadAG | but PR1.2 rootfs -> eMMC messes it up |
| 12:28.59 | DocScrutinizer | /kick $USER |
| 12:29.01 | MohammadAG | a bit |
| 12:29.14 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: correct, seems I heard about fiascogen first time from you |
| 12:29.28 | MohammadAG | making the rootfs is ubi stuff |
| 12:29.38 | MohammadAG | packing into a fiasco needs fiasco-gen yes |
| 12:29.40 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, PR1.2 is not a kick'able term any more it seems |
| 12:30.12 | DocScrutinizer | k, removed it, sorry |
| 12:30.47 | *** join/#harmattan strannik1 (~Strannik@81.5.157.62) |
| 12:31.30 | MohammadAG | why is there another channel (#N9)? |
| 12:32.25 | strannik1 | Who knows |
| 12:32.26 | strannik1 | It is way too confusing |
| 12:33.19 | faenil | lol just read your messages.. |
| 12:33.42 | faenil | so MohammadAG, are you forced to use fiasco image with moslo too? |
| 12:33.56 | faenil | can't you just extract files on the device as you do with the community edition? |
| 12:34.06 | MohammadAG | I don't know if fiasco-gen even exists on harmattan |
| 12:34.29 | MohammadAG | if it does, you'll have to get the fiasco bin signed |
| 12:35.03 | faenil | there's something unclear here.... |
| 12:35.47 | faenil | don't think CE uses a signed image |
| 12:36.06 | hiemanshu | faenil: CE doesn't have the same partition setup as harmattan |
| 12:36.34 | faenil | hiemanshu: and isn't there any workaround for that? |
| 12:37.00 | hiemanshu | there is |
| 12:37.04 | hiemanshu | you just have to work on it |
| 12:37.27 | faenil | with CE you format everything to ext4 |
| 12:38.37 | hiemanshu | there were a few other things too, cant recall most of it |
| 12:39.01 | faenil | think think think :O |
| 12:39.48 | faenil | I mean, CE is just a package full of files... |
| 12:39.52 | faenil | tar.bz |
| 12:40.08 | faenil | or gz2 |
| 12:40.21 | hiemanshu | MOSLO writes on one of the harmattan partitions |
| 12:40.33 | faenil | ok |
| 12:40.47 | faenil | so? |
| 12:41.17 | MohammadAG | faenil, CE uses a different kernel |
| 12:41.18 | faenil | can't we create other partitions and reproduce harmattan env and then just copy harmattan files to partitions? |
| 12:41.42 | hiemanshu | partitions are hard coded |
| 12:42.02 | faenil | hiemanshu: you mean hardcoded in moslo? |
| 12:42.05 | hiemanshu | atleast thats what I checked last |
| 12:42.08 | hiemanshu | faenil: no harmattan |
| 12:42.36 | faenil | hiemanshu: that shouldn't be a problem, because harmattan will find the same partitions... |
| 12:42.47 | strannik1 | So have you all got the n9 yet? |
| 12:42.51 | faenil | MohammadAG: could you please elaborate more on consequences of that? |
| 12:42.58 | faenil | n950 and n9 here |
| 12:43.03 | strannik1 | Oh wow cool |
| 12:43.08 | hiemanshu | faenil: but you need MOSLO, and that writes on the harmattan partition :P |
| 12:43.10 | faenil | got n9 at dev days :) |
| 12:43.23 | strannik1 | Still waiting for my dad to hopefully pick up an n9 from china |
| 12:43.31 | strannik1 | I am in the uk |
| 12:43.35 | faenil | hiemanshu: so you can't create other partitions and write harmattan on them? |
| 12:43.47 | strannik1 | Faenil: i also applied for the n950 but never got one |
| 12:43.53 | hiemanshu | faenil: dont think so |
| 12:44.08 | strannik1 | Haha applied one day , or even half a day before the deadline |
| 12:44.08 | faenil | strannik1: keep trying :) contact people, show them what u've done, don't desist :) |
| 12:44.30 | strannik1 | Do they still give out the n950s? |
| 12:45.02 | faenil | they might have some left, who knows |
| 12:45.56 | faenil | hiemanshu: will wait for some more info :) |
| 12:46.12 | faenil | we also have moslo sources, it seems doable to me... |
| 12:46.21 | *** join/#harmattan leinir (~leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
| 12:46.31 | hiemanshu | faenil: thats the thing, it can be done, you just have to work on it :P |
| 12:46.57 | faenil | hiemanshu: sure, I'm trying to get more info, as I don't know much about that first phase |
| 12:47.23 | hiemanshu | faenil: ask dm8tbr, he is the best person to contact about it |
| 12:47.29 | hiemanshu | faenil: him or Stskeeps |
| 12:47.30 | faenil | ok... |
| 12:47.40 | faenil | Stskeeps is already reading I guess :) |
| 12:47.58 | faenil | Mohammad: anything? |
| 12:48.42 | MohammadAG | nope, can't, mainly cause I haven't tried flashing a kernel due to the absence of a device |
| 12:49.04 | faenil | right... |
| 12:49.24 | faenil | but you seemed to know why it can/can't be done, or such.. |
| 12:50.51 | *** join/#harmattan _trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 12:51.22 | DocScrutinizer | do what? |
| 12:51.42 | DocScrutinizer | create a HARM clone free of aegis? |
| 12:52.41 | strannik1 | I wonder who the hell in nokia decided to put in aegis. I always assumed the meego team were the opposition to elop and wp7 |
| 12:52.50 | DocScrutinizer | *can* be done, though you still need to emulate aegis for several apps that rely on it, and *some* apps will outright not work as they may rely on access to root cert in TPM which is locked in open mode |
| 12:53.42 | *** join/#harmattan lardman (~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman) |
| 12:54.20 | *** join/#harmattan KaziKluBey (KaziKluBey@c-83-233-222-249.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 12:54.46 | strannik1 | Did the applications work with javispedros method of just disabling aegis |
| 12:54.58 | strannik1 | Using the devel-su priviliges |
| 12:56.36 | strannik1 | DocScrutinizer: what happened when aegis was disabled in the beta1? |
| 12:56.51 | *** join/#harmattan deimos (~deimos@host79-73-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:56.54 | strannik1 | Using the devel-su priviliges |
| 12:57.55 | strannik1 | Faenil: do you know? |
| 12:58.13 | faenil | don't know sorry |
| 12:58.14 | strannik1 | Would the nokia closed apps stop working? |
| 12:58.29 | faenil | DocScrutinizer: I'm not trying to get rid of aegis ;) |
| 12:58.56 | faenil | DocScrutinizer: just trying to boot a custom firmware, where I can change files, edit configurations, and stuff, by defaul |
| 12:59.47 | jabis | faenil, quite impossible because of TPM lock |
| 13:00.02 | jabis | it's basically all of harmattan or nothing |
| 13:00.06 | faenil | right, that malfunctioning thing right? |
| 13:01.49 | jabis | yup |
| 13:01.59 | jabis | --write-cert === MALF |
| 13:02.42 | faenil | well but |
| 13:02.50 | faenil | that only covers system files doesn't it? |
| 13:03.18 | jabis | I'd want an N950 but not sure I can push our mobile development team to pick it up -.- |
| 13:03.28 | faenil | or does it also cover applications settings? like don't know, musicplayer...and other stuf |
| 13:04.03 | faenil | DocScrutinizer: anyway,I'll talk to javispedro to know more about the current status of mods |
| 13:04.49 | *** part/#harmattan _trine (~trine@trine1-1-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 13:07.47 | MohammadAG | faenil, you're probably better shipping a diff that applies at first boot |
| 13:09.36 | faenil | MohammadAG: :P |
| 13:10.06 | faenil | or wait and contribute to Nemo :) and have fun there :P |
| 13:10.19 | strannik1 | Nemo? |
| 13:10.22 | DocScrutinizer | faenil: as aegis is permanently checking hashes of a lot of files, and changing the files by *any* means will invalidate the hashes, you earn little with temporarily "disable aegis" as you never can go back to normal mode on HARM after editing a single file |
| 13:12.30 | MohammadAG | faenil, the fish? |
| 13:12.43 | strannik1 | The only solution would be to reverse engenier aegis and see what tokens it is sending??? |
| 13:13.09 | jabis | there be a lot of reverse engineering |
| 13:13.45 | MohammadAG | I feel like trying something when I get my device |
| 13:13.55 | DocScrutinizer | faenil: see /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist for a list of files you must not edit |
| 13:14.00 | MohammadAG | sorry, if* |
| 13:14.07 | faenil | MohammadAG: Nemo, Mer + UX community edition |
| 13:14.14 | strannik1 | lol same here , but for now i am trying to understand more about the os environment |
| 13:14.15 | faenil | Doc: thanks |
| 13:14.31 | MohammadAG | ah, the wonderful naming schemes |
| 13:15.47 | hiemanshu | MohammadAG: yeah MeeGo CE is now Nemo :P |
| 13:16.47 | DocScrutinizer | generally aegis is not exactly (only) about forbidding certain activities like writing to some particular file - aegis ensures a certain *state* of HARM or otherwise will cause MALF |
| 13:17.29 | MohammadAG | when you MALF |
| 13:17.29 | faenil | yeah knew that ;) |
| 13:17.34 | DocScrutinizer | so you can not change the state by whatever means and hope to go back to a HARM system with a bit of it changed and still working |
| 13:17.42 | MohammadAG | does it reboot or does the window simply pop up and reboot doesn't succeed?\ |
| 13:17.59 | MohammadAG | just wondering if an ssh session would stay active in MALF |
| 13:18.13 | DocScrutinizer | unclear, it seems it reboots, pops up MALF screen, and reboot hangs |
| 13:19.38 | jabis | basically you'd have to rewrite aegis - gl x) |
| 13:19.45 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 13:19.59 | DocScrutinizer | and even then you don't have access to the root cert in TPM |
| 13:20.24 | *** join/#harmattan berndhs (~berndhs@2604:8800:11b:1:21e:90ff:fe8f:8bee) |
| 13:21.01 | strannik1 | Why did they do this? To stop people from pirating the nokia apps or something??? |
| 13:21.02 | strannik1 | Lol |
| 13:21.16 | jabis | wondering if the root cert would be extractable - well if there is a mean to distribute it to the TPM there is a way to get it out, but that'd take a lot of magics and trickery x) |
| 13:21.26 | MohammadAG | MeeGo had plans |
| 13:21.33 | DocScrutinizer | strannik1: see the >> quote << in |
| 13:21.35 | DocScrutinizer | ~aegis |
| 13:21.35 | infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 13:21.39 | MohammadAG | to be supported etc, I remember EA and such had plans for games/commercial apps |
| 13:21.49 | MohammadAG | but then the WP7 plan came along |
| 13:21.53 | Lilltiger | No, Nokia did this to screw with the Open Source Community, it's a part of thire agreement with Microsoft |
| 13:21.55 | MohammadAG | MeeGo died, commercially at least |
| 13:22.03 | MohammadAG | but Nokia kept the security platform |
| 13:22.26 | DocScrutinizer | sounds plausible, yes |
| 13:22.31 | faenil | mnmmm |
| 13:22.57 | MohammadAG | the reason the N900 wasn't commerically supporteed is it lacks a security platform |
| 13:23.00 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:23.09 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: LOL |
| 13:23.13 | MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, yeah, Maemo 6 Harmattan |
| 13:23.52 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, what? remember Angry Birds Map packs? |
| 13:23.56 | MohammadAG | remember PR1.2 + Ovi? |
| 13:24.11 | MohammadAG | not that Android's is any better, you just find an apk and install it there |
| 13:24.31 | MohammadAG | but I guess Android received more marketting and had more OEM manufacturers |
| 13:24.38 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: there were subsidized N900 in GB at least. And for sure nobody stopped their commercial apps because N900 had no platsec |
| 13:25.08 | khertan | it s funny, because you even with aegis you can still install pirated apps :) |
| 13:25.13 | hiemanshu | what does the platsec prevent really? |
| 13:25.21 | hiemanshu | There is no fix for human stupidity |
| 13:25.38 | psycho_oreos | unfortunately Flop doesn't see it that way |
| 13:25.55 | psycho_oreos | he's sense of human's stupidity is as diligent as Ballmer's |
| 13:26.19 | psycho_oreos | i.e. putting a leash |
| 13:27.23 | hiemanshu | no really I wanna know what does the plat sec do that couldn't be done with workarounds that aren't this hard on developers? |
| 13:27.49 | Arkenoi | to prevent pirated apps from working imei bind is more than enough |
| 13:28.03 | DocScrutinizer | ensure there's nobody using OC and Nokia has to RMA the fried device |
| 13:28.41 | DocScrutinizer | and open a path to DRM which can't be ensured any other way than this |
| 13:29.15 | DocScrutinizer | no other purpose, really. Everything else can get achieved in better well proven "standard" ways |
| 13:29.34 | psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, lol, their hard work as shown in the making of N9 video has not gone to waste into making another one just because one managed to fry theirs |
| 13:29.51 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: what does DRM have to do with me editing /bin/bash ? |
| 13:30.15 | hiemanshu | the features have become flaws |
| 13:31.00 | DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: DRM relies on a comprehensive platform integrity, see HDMI encryption etc |
| 13:33.29 | hiemanshu | HDCP blah blah yes, but I am saying it could have been done much better without making it a pains for the devs |
| 13:33.45 | DocScrutinizer | if somebody is offering the latest blockbuster song as *ringtone* they want to make sure you can't even record it from headphones plug, so complete control over the whole system is mandatory for what "they" think is proper DRM |
| 13:34.43 | hiemanshu | if I really wanted it, I could find a way to extract it |
| 13:34.57 | DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: sure. We all thought we get a switch to enable "open mode" and would be able to do whatver we want, just not access any DRM content anymore. Alas it turns out this is incompatible with the way aegis works |
| 13:35.10 | Arkenoi | hdcp is pretty damn stupid |
| 13:35.27 | Arkenoi | completely useless but we all were forced to pay for development and implementation |
| 13:35.32 | hiemanshu | Arkenoi: we are bashing and not aegis, please dont go off topic :P |
| 13:35.33 | *** join/#harmattan stroughtonsmith (~steven@c-50-131-56-92.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 13:35.38 | hiemanshu | err |
| 13:35.48 | hiemanshu | Arkenoi: we are bashing aegis and not HDCP, please dont go off topic :P |
| 13:36.50 | DocScrutinizer | well, it seems this comment about HDCP applies to aegis pretty fine |
| 13:36.58 | strannik1 | Hahaha |
| 13:37.22 | Arkenoi | i hate every time i forced to spend *my* money on things designed solely for my annoyance |
| 13:37.55 | Arkenoi | does not apply to n950 users, however, but still sucks |
| 13:38.28 | strannik1 | Hdcp doesnt need to be used. It can be "simply" sidestepped |
| 13:38.59 | hiemanshu | ofc |
| 13:40.35 | strannik1 | Man sorry to go offtopic |
| 13:40.55 | strannik1 | But i used to be part of the ipodlinux community |
| 13:40.58 | strannik1 | Back in the day |
| 13:41.05 | strannik1 | For the classic ipod |
| 13:41.34 | strannik1 | Apple started the whole cat and mouse game trying to prevent us from modifying their bootloader |
| 13:41.53 | strannik1 | So they started encrypting it and what not |
| 13:42.12 | hiemanshu | strannik1: they are doing it for the iPhone as well |
| 13:42.14 | hiemanshu | nothing new |
| 13:42.32 | hiemanshu | Corporations just want to maintain a dictatorship |
| 13:42.32 | strannik1 | Either way some guy found out ont tiny piece of code that wasnt encrypted |
| 13:42.57 | strannik1 | The code controlled the piezo.. A little speaker that makes clicks and tones |
| 13:43.12 | RST38h | Actially, it was not Apple |
| 13:43.14 | RST38h | Sony did |
| 13:43.23 | strannik1 | The guy managed to get it to access the bootloader ,, and click out the whole bootloader |
| 13:43.44 | RST38h | and even before that, Hughes DSS |
| 13:43.50 | strannik1 | After 20 hours of recording clicks we had the bootloader :) |
| 13:44.45 | strannik1 | With harmattan i am sure it will be easier to get past aegis. Than it was on the classic ipod .. Here we have way more access to the system |
| 13:44.52 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 13:44.57 | *** join/#harmattan jesuschrist (~iop@151.66.149.95) |
| 13:45.02 | djszapi | ~seen wazd |
| 13:45.09 | infobot | wazd <~wazd@broadband-95-84-185-178.nationalcablenetworks.ru> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 9d 16h 3m 36s ago, saying: 'Milhouse: easter egg for geeks? :)'. |
| 13:45.32 | *** join/#harmattan rlinfati (~rlinfati@109.115.35.149) |
| 13:46.51 | strannik1 | I just think we need to be more optimistic about aegis |
| 13:47.18 | strannik1 | I am sure it will be history in no time |
| 13:47.29 | strannik1 | Pain in the ass. Yes |
| 13:47.44 | strannik1 | Cat and mouse attitude . Yes |
| 13:47.45 | *** join/#harmattan zogg_laptop (~zogg@bzq-79-177-202-146.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 13:48.26 | strannik1 | But with harmattan there is a lot more access , than on other devices |
| 13:48.33 | zogg_laptop | hey, anyone from Israel here? i wonder if someone bought N9 here? |
| 13:48.49 | Arkenoi | strannik1: but you pay for it being installed in every hdmi device. and in fact we sponsored its development -- the price is hidden in every hdmi device we buy |
| 13:49.13 | strannik1 | Zogg_laptop: there is some guy in the #n9 channel called jesus christ ;) |
| 13:49.27 | strannik1 | He found a n9 for 470 . Might want to ask him lol |
| 13:49.28 | zogg_laptop | strannik1: here is here too |
| 13:49.39 | zogg_laptop | jesuschrist: ^ ? |
| 13:50.15 | strannik1 | Arkenoi: i have a linux device that has hdmi , but no hdcp |
| 13:50.32 | jesuschrist | as i said, i was from israel but they crucified me |
| 13:50.35 | zogg_laptop | what is hdcp? |
| 13:50.35 | jesuschrist | :I |
| 13:50.42 | Arkenoi | well, _almost_ every |
| 13:50.46 | zogg_laptop | jesuschrist: but seriosly> |
| 13:51.17 | jesuschrist | seriously what zogg ? |
| 13:51.23 | Arkenoi | damn i have problems with google sync. just 200 contacts (exactly) are synced and sync stucks |
| 13:51.31 | zogg_laptop | jesuschrist: are you from israel? |
| 13:51.39 | jesuschrist | zogg_laptop : no |
| 13:51.40 | Arkenoi | stucks means other contacts are missing from address book |
| 13:51.54 | jesuschrist | im in heaven now zogg |
| 13:51.56 | djszapi | faenil: goto San Francisco for getting another N9 ? :) |
| 13:53.08 | jabis | I had the same problem with syncing my lg's contacts to N9 |
| 13:53.18 | jabis | 200 and then *biff* no moar |
| 13:53.45 | DocScrutinizer | I bet that's another hidden "protecting means" for the user's convenience |
| 13:53.59 | jabis | I extracted them to vcards, smoked the 200 off and then resynced the rest |
| 13:54.22 | *** join/#harmattan japplo (~japplo@89.204.153.198) |
| 13:54.39 | jabis | it's the same with facebook too - 471 peeps on list but only 200 found their way to contact list x) |
| 13:55.04 | DocScrutinizer | strannik1: you need to learn more about how aegis works (I elaborated on it just ~100 lines above), there's basically no hope to "get past aegis" |
| 13:55.44 | DocScrutinizer | unless we find a correctly signed xloader that doesn't tear down the TPM and still allows custom kernel loading |
| 13:56.47 | japplo | hi, I try to compile keepassx for N9, but I have at the bottom |
| 13:56.48 | jabis | so that means we need to find a disgruntled nokia-dood from r&d x) |
| 13:56.49 | japplo | a bar like in the screenshot. What is the reason for that? |
| 13:56.53 | japplo | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9887743/20111029153536.png |
| 13:56.55 | japplo | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9887743/20111029153618.png |
| 13:57.14 | DocScrutinizer | jabis: yoh :-D |
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| 13:59.02 | jabis | that would kinda kick ass - but then again, chances are greater to win a lottery which you haven't bought a ticket for x) |
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| 14:05.01 | jesuschrist | guys do you think flash will come to the n9 ? |
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| 14:22.46 | DocScrutinizer | probably not |
| 14:25.17 | Lilltiger | DocScrutinizer: ohh so the custom kernel approatch that was workt on dident work? :( |
| 14:25.57 | DocScrutinizer | err sure it works, you can load "custom kernel" without major problems |
| 14:26.10 | DocScrutinizer | but that's not a working HARM system then |
| 14:26.34 | Lilltiger | ahh ok :( |
| 14:27.21 | DocScrutinizer | and if you dare to change any system file (aka aegis hashref's fike) under that custom kernel, your system will MALF later on stock HARM kernel with aegis |
| 14:28.20 | snowpong | are there any good docs on proper uninstall scripts for the .deb files for harmattan, or should one just read general .deb documentation? |
| 14:28.59 | jesuschrist | malf = ? |
| 14:37.05 | DocScrutinizer | malfunction |
| 14:37.09 | DocScrutinizer | ~malf |
| 14:37.42 | DocScrutinizer | ~malf is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Aegis-kills-device.jpg |
| 14:37.42 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer |
| 14:37.53 | Lilltiger | I cant see how goverments allow companies this much freedom, so retarded, if I buy something I should own it and be allowed to change it as much as i want to |
| 14:38.46 | DocScrutinizer | you are allowed to do that. Just you won't get HARM to work on this device then |
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| 14:48.20 | Jaffa | Anyone got an idea on how do detect the system 12/24 hour setting? I can't find gconf to grep it, nor does rendering "new Date()" seem to vary based on the setting. |
| 14:48.48 | DocScrutinizer | hah |
| 14:50.17 | DocScrutinizer | gconftool-2 -R / >a.txt; <change 12/24>; gconftool-2 -R / >b.txt; diff a.txt b.txt |
| 14:51.40 | Jaffa | Yeah, just did that (well, gconftool-2 --dump /) |
| 14:51.43 | Jaffa | /meegotouch/i18n/lc_timeformat24h on Harmattan |
| 14:51.52 | Jaffa | Which means it'll be different on Maemo. |
| 14:53.00 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: which is one of the reasons for this channel's existence, rather than just hijacking #meego* |
| 14:53.17 | DocScrutinizer | or #maemo |
| 14:53.22 | Jaffa | Fremantle is /schemas/apps/clock/time-format boolean. |
| 14:53.34 | Jaffa | Harmattan is /meegotouch/i18n/lc_timeformat24h string (12/24) |
| 14:54.13 | DocScrutinizer | and on a proper system it should go to locale afaik |
| 14:54.37 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: No |
| 14:54.52 | DocScrutinizer | no? |
| 14:54.53 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: See Maemo bug #303 why it can't be decided by the system without being overruled by the user |
| 14:55.25 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Maemos prior to v4 went off the POSIX locale information (without a flag), which was "wrong" for the UK (as the UK uses 24 hour far more than it does 12 hour) |
| 14:56.49 | DocScrutinizer | lengthy ticket |
| 14:57.08 | RST38h | moos at the audience |
| 14:57.31 | RST38h | Am I the only one seeing n950 screen turn off in ~30 seconds, even when the setting is set to 3 minutes? |
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| 14:58.03 | DocScrutinizer | man 5 locale|less +/lc_time |
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| 15:01.42 | richmoore2 | does anyone know why the qmlviewer deb from http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta2/free/q/qt4-x11/ seems to be built as if it were a desktop app? (it has unusable menubar etc.) which makes it impossible to use on the n9. the one i have on the n8 opens with a filebrowser that works fine on a handset |
| 15:06.00 | DocScrutinizer | maybe because HARM paradigm denies the existence of pathnames and filesystems and completely bases on tracker? |
| 15:06.11 | rzr | plans to upgrade his n950 from b1 to current version this w/e , does it worth it ? |
| 15:07.02 | DocScrutinizer | (one of the things Nokia liked to try and prove they can do it better than Apple who failed epically on that approach) |
| 15:08.35 | richmoore2 | DocScrutinizer: iirc there are a number of file browsers available for the n9, so i don't see why that would be the case |
| 15:08.37 | DocScrutinizer | rzr: well, no matter if it's worth it, it's a final step anyway. No way to downgrade :-P |
| 15:09.17 | rzr | that's why I came here, would it be helpfull to keep some devices in b1 ? |
| 15:09.43 | DocScrutinizer | richmoore2: those filebrowsers are all from authors who failed to see how wonderful this new paradigm works together with e.g. mail attachments |
| 15:10.20 | DocScrutinizer | well, mine is b1 still, rzr |
| 15:10.56 | rzr | is there any reason why you did not upgrade ? |
| 15:11.09 | DocScrutinizer | as b1 allows me to do my hw hacking for hostmode. B2(++) is way harder to 'unlock', maybe impossible |
| 15:12.36 | rzr | maybe there are some hacks to reflash b1 ? |
| 15:12.45 | DocScrutinizer | prolly not |
| 15:13.28 | DocScrutinizer | except flasher rig to flash the cellmo fw directly via phoenix flasher sw, using the testpads |
| 15:14.52 | strannik1 | Is there no recovery mode in n9/50 ? |
| 15:15.02 | DocScrutinizer | ?? |
| 15:15.34 | strannik1 | Some kind of software in the bootloader which can help recover your phone |
| 15:15.39 | DocScrutinizer | recovery process commonly known as "flashing" |
| 15:16.48 | DocScrutinizer | and that software in the bootloader tells you "downgrading not allowed" |
| 15:16.56 | strannik1 | Was thinking more of some button combo you can press, so it flashes itself to stock firmware |
| 15:17.35 | strannik1 | Yea the whole downgrading bullshit is a pain |
| 15:17.36 | DocScrutinizer | what's the use of that, when the backup image might be borked as well? |
| 15:18.26 | DocScrutinizer | there's a "reset to factory settings" option somewhere. Alas it doesn't exactly downgrade cellmo FW to b1 version |
| 15:18.36 | strannik1 | Can at least the same image version be flashed! |
| 15:18.38 | strannik1 | ? |
| 15:18.42 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 15:19.11 | strannik1 | Haha ok so atleast there is no need to wait for a new version to unbrick the phone |
| 15:19.18 | DocScrutinizer | that's the recommended "recovery" |
| 15:19.57 | strannik1 | Wait, if you want to make your own image for instance |
| 15:19.59 | DocScrutinizer | besides that image version + flasher is missing yet for N9 |
| 15:20.40 | DocScrutinizer | strannik1: won't work as flasher/boot-code will refuse flashing images without proper signature |
| 15:20.44 | strannik1 | If you wanted to flash a different image, meego ce, for instance |
| 15:20.49 | strannik1 | Oh |
| 15:21.13 | strannik1 | Shit |
| 15:21.17 | DocScrutinizer | afaik, never tested that myself |
| 15:21.40 | strannik1 | Yea , man i really dont like all the built in security |
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| 15:22.14 | DocScrutinizer | but it's a confirmed fact we normal mortals can not flash the Nokia internal dev images, as we lack the proper R&D cert on our devices |
| 15:22.57 | strannik1 | Ok cool thats interesting |
| 15:23.12 | Lilltiger | I do rely regret buying my N9, maybe i should ask for a refund because the device was not at all what i expect it to be |
| 15:23.38 | strannik1 | Lilltiger: help to hack it ;) |
| 15:24.28 | Lilltiger | hacking shouldent be needed, wich was the sole reason to why i bought it |
| 15:24.36 | strannik1 | Maybe it might be possible in the future to have some kind of secondstage loader |
| 15:24.54 | strannik1 | That tells the first stage that it is the correct fw |
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| 15:25.15 | strannik1 | But in fact loads up your own image |
| 15:25.38 | *** join/#harmattan doomdog (~IceChat77@178.156.178.172) |
| 15:25.56 | strannik1 | Has anyone tried to hack it? |
| 15:26.40 | strannik1 | It would be nice having a real recovery mode (As in flash anygod damm thing you want onto it) |
| 15:27.43 | doomdog | just playing with moslo and meego CE should be interesting |
| 15:28.05 | doomdog | for instance, there is a way to "downgrade" |
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| 15:28.17 | doomdog | if you saved the rootfs in advance |
| 15:29.49 | strannik1 | And just overwrite the old rootfs? |
| 15:30.03 | doomdog | ofc |
| 15:30.46 | doomdog | the same way you put meego CE in there you can also put e.g beta1 |
| 15:31.14 | strannik1 | Hmm , never thought of that |
| 15:31.27 | doomdog | which Doc whould already have a tgz of by now =) |
| 15:31.33 | doomdog | whould/should |
| 15:31.36 | strannik1 | So will you get all your su priviliges back? |
| 15:31.57 | doomdog | you will get whatever you had in that specific rootfs |
| 15:31.57 | strannik1 | Devel-su or whatever it is |
| 15:32.46 | strannik1 | :) |
| 15:33.07 | strannik1 | Well , thats good stuff haha |
| 15:33.18 | strannik1 | Didn't expect it |
| 15:33.26 | doomdog | also you can always flash another kernel, including an official one from the OCFs |
| 15:33.29 | DocScrutinizer | doomdog: won't fly, the beta2 tag is in cellmo |
| 15:33.56 | doomdog | can't you also flash cellmo fw (only) with the OCF? |
| 15:34.11 | doomdog | similar to --kernel-only? |
| 15:34.49 | DocScrutinizer | and btw I doubt restoring a HARM fs by copying files will work - afaik the refhashlist has inode numbers in it. It's hard to restore a file to same inode |
| 15:35.34 | doomdog | I am routinely restoring rootfs and it works no problem |
| 15:35.37 | DocScrutinizer | --cellmo-only might exist, but probably will not allow downgrade |
| 15:36.03 | doomdog | worth trying though? |
| 15:36.09 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 15:36.30 | doomdog | flash kernel from 34.2 and see if the 22.6 rootfs flies with that, for instance |
| 15:36.37 | DocScrutinizer | just *I* won't first upgrade to try then if I can downgrade |
| 15:37.14 | doomdog | but having a tgz of the beta1 rootfs is mandatory |
| 15:37.19 | doomdog | do that first |
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| 15:38.01 | doomdog | as a way out of possible trouble |
| 15:38.02 | *** join/#harmattan arcean (~Arcean@aaft85.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 15:38.11 | strannik1 | Everyone needs their own personal backup right? |
| 15:38.24 | strannik1 | Or can they be shared? |
| 15:38.49 | doomdog | sharing is moot, as everyone can do it |
| 15:38.55 | doomdog | (backup that is) |
| 15:39.01 | DocScrutinizer | I've never heard of any way to do a backup yet |
| 15:39.16 | doomdog | well, just flash moslo |
| 15:39.17 | DocScrutinizer | at least not of any way to restore such backup |
| 15:39.46 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, via moslo it might work |
| 15:39.50 | doomdog | it does work |
| 15:41.15 | DocScrutinizer | you also might want to keep a backup of CAL |
| 15:41.34 | doomdog | CAL? |
| 15:41.42 | DocScrutinizer | but there's no way to keep a backup of cellmo |
| 15:41.54 | DocScrutinizer | cat /proc/mtd |
| 15:41.57 | strannik1 | Ahh ok . I just the documentation for moslo .. Moslo is a secondstage loader |
| 15:41.58 | DocScrutinizer | config |
| 15:42.11 | strannik1 | Does moslo work fine with harmattan? |
| 15:42.18 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 15:42.35 | doomdog | oh, moslo has the same view of the mtd partitions as HARM |
| 15:42.42 | doomdog | no problems there |
| 15:42.49 | DocScrutinizer | moslo and harm are mutually exclusive - first approach |
| 15:44.17 | Arkenoi | any advices how can i recover failed google sync? |
| 15:45.15 | doomdog | someone should try flashing moslo but just trying to boot afterwards, without mkfs & getting meego CE extracted over |
| 15:45.39 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 15:45.48 | doomdog | there is always the OCF to get out of that |
| 15:46.00 | DocScrutinizer | still moslo is already open mode |
| 15:46.05 | doomdog | ofc |
| 15:46.44 | doomdog | it's not signed |
| 15:46.49 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 15:46.50 | doomdog | but it could expose the rootfs |
| 15:48.19 | DocScrutinizer | and NOLO might even use some flag to boot directly to harm kernel + rootfs rather than to moslo |
| 15:48.47 | DocScrutinizer | actually I'm rather sure it does |
| 15:49.10 | DocScrutinizer | and it probably does this in secure mode then |
| 15:49.56 | DocScrutinizer | which still all is rather boring as any edit on harm rootfs will make it malf in secure mode |
| 15:50.43 | DocScrutinizer | unless you hacked the right init script ;-D |
| 15:51.02 | doomdog | there, there ;) |
| 15:52.26 | dm8tbr | I think dual-booting openmode and securemode is interesting. And I wouldn't care to mess with the system in secure mode. In open mode I have full control and can run e.g. Nemo |
| 15:52.31 | DocScrutinizer | which will give us a kernel with initscripts hardcoded on beta4 the latest |
| 15:53.23 | faenil | just finished reading |
| 15:53.33 | faenil | doomdog: u're the one I was looking for, lol |
| 15:54.02 | faenil | DocScrutinizer: I can do whatever test you all need as long as it doesn't have more than 3% or bricking the device to death |
| 15:54.04 | faenil | :) |
| 15:54.43 | strannik1 | Nemo moslo harm ...?who comes up with these names haha |
| 15:54.57 | DocScrutinizer | faenil: thanks, noticed :-) |
| 15:55.13 | doomdog | Doc, first step would be to flash moslo and see if you can flash back beta1 afterwards. |
| 15:55.14 | DocScrutinizer | harm is my minting |
| 15:55.16 | faenil | ok then talk, lol |
| 15:57.04 | DocScrutinizer | doomdog: this is supposed to work, though only if you haven't upgraded to beta2 before |
| 15:57.13 | doomdog | well, you haven't, so ;) |
| 15:57.30 | doomdog | no harm done |
| 15:57.34 | doomdog | (pun intended) |
| 15:57.38 | DocScrutinizer | I didn't take your comment as you suggesting beta2->moslo->beta1 was a viable way |
| 15:58.19 | doomdog | unfortunately I don't have a beta1 rootfs around to try that |
| 15:58.35 | DocScrutinizer | anyway flashing b1 will nuke moslo afaik |
| 15:58.36 | doomdog | but beta2-moslo-beta2 works |
| 15:58.52 | DocScrutinizer | as does flashing b2 |
| 15:59.19 | dm8tbr | that's also because there is an --erase-something=secure in the OCF |
| 15:59.19 | doomdog | it might |
| 15:59.30 | DocScrutinizer | and since my b1 is kinda customized to match some of my needs right now, I'm reluctant to mess with it |
| 15:59.48 | doomdog | what about flashing separate components and never --erase-ing? |
| 16:00.17 | dm8tbr | try and find out |
| 16:00.20 | DocScrutinizer | unclear, as the whole flashing process is completely undocumented |
| 16:00.22 | doomdog | =) |
| 16:00.47 | DocScrutinizer | for NAND anyway you *need* to erase prior to fresg flashing |
| 16:01.29 | DocScrutinizer | as you can flash only 0->1 on NAND, and 1->0 only works via page-erase |
| 16:01.37 | doomdog | yes, but when you flash kernel only you only get to erase that portion of the NAND |
| 16:01.56 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 16:02.15 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not particularly interested in a newer kernel though |
| 16:02.26 | doomdog | I don't see why flashing the complete e.g. beta2 would erase the moslo partition |
| 16:02.35 | DocScrutinizer | as long as it still has aegis |
| 16:02.58 | doomdog | I am curious about javispedro's progress with the modified kernel |
| 16:03.12 | DocScrutinizer | doomdog: if it doesn't then you're doomed as no way back to secure mode ;-P |
| 16:03.38 | doomdog | Doc, I'm doomed anyway :-) |
| 16:04.05 | DocScrutinizer | (except for anticipated flags that would make NOLO boot to secure despite moslo being there) |
| 16:04.41 | doomdog | hmm wouldn't moslo sources shed some light on all this? |
| 16:05.01 | DocScrutinizer | not really as that'S all NOLO domain |
| 16:05.22 | strannik1 | Is moslo open source? Guess not?! |
| 16:05.40 | DocScrutinizer | it's NOLO who drops secure mode on loading moslo/unsigned-* |
| 16:05.51 | DocScrutinizer | moslo *is* foss |
| 16:05.52 | doomdog | https://gitorious.org/meego-developer-edition-for-n900/moslo |
| 16:05.59 | strannik1 | Thanks |
| 16:06.50 | doomdog | aiui, it's also NOLO that loads moslo, if it can find it |
| 16:07.02 | DocScrutinizer | and it's NOLO who decides to either oad MOSLO or the kernel in mtd1 |
| 16:07.12 | DocScrutinizer | yes, exactly |
| 16:07.41 | strannik1 | What if we modify moslo? |
| 16:07.50 | DocScrutinizer | so moslo src won't tell you anything really |
| 16:08.11 | DocScrutinizer | strannik1: then we have a modified moslo :-D |
| 16:08.22 | doomdog | which could do stuff |
| 16:08.42 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, stuff like loading arbitrary OS in *open mode* |
| 16:08.48 | doomdog | or maybe not much |
| 16:08.51 | doomdog | nod |
| 16:10.05 | DocScrutinizer | arbitrary OS even includes HARM rootfs&kernel |
| 16:10.09 | DocScrutinizer | still open mode |
| 16:10.30 | strannik1 | Wait , but why only in open mode? |
| 16:10.36 | doomdog | with the right modifications in kernel and rootfs, open mode should not be that bad |
| 16:10.44 | DocScrutinizer | because NOLO loads moslo in open mode |
| 16:10.52 | doomdog | and we could still have HARM on |
| 16:12.12 | DocScrutinizer | doomdog: yes, we *could* re-implement all of aegis cruft in a way it works in open mode like it would in closed mode. What we can't implement this way is access to root cert (and other certs) in TPM |
| 16:12.20 | strannik1 | So nolo only lets official firmware and moslo run? |
| 16:12.35 | doomdog | right |
| 16:12.58 | doomdog | the question is what essential stuff (if any) depends on those certs.. |
| 16:13.15 | DocScrutinizer | strannik1: no, (new) NOLO loads arbitrary kernels/rootfs, just it drops secure mode on that |
| 16:13.19 | DocScrutinizer | aka locks TPM |
| 16:13.44 | DocScrutinizer | so no more access to certs |
| 16:14.03 | DocScrutinizer | doomdog: one thing known to fail is aegis account manager |
| 16:14.12 | doomdog | that's tough |
| 16:14.33 | DocScrutinizer | another one seems to be r/o on messages storage |
| 16:15.03 | DocScrutinizer | which could get worked around on a aegis-neutered re-implementation |
| 16:15.05 | *** join/#harmattan strannik1 (~Strannik@81.5.157.62) |
| 16:15.09 | strannik1 | Wlan droppe |
| 16:15.13 | strannik1 | Dropped |
| 16:15.16 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 16:15.33 | DocScrutinizer | unclear if that's fixable |
| 16:15.39 | doomdog | hmm |
| 16:16.10 | DocScrutinizer | access to cellmo lucckily seems to work |
| 16:16.21 | doomdog | if it means rewriting half the HARM, it's not worth it maybe |
| 16:16.28 | DocScrutinizer | this *could* change any time in future though |
| 16:16.40 | DocScrutinizer | doomdog: now you got the point |
| 16:17.11 | doomdog | just getting all the important bits ported over to CE would be better |
| 16:17.18 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 16:17.37 | DocScrutinizer | definitely HARM is a dead end |
| 16:17.49 | faenil | agree, +1 |
| 16:17.51 | doomdog | swipe-like FOSS anyone? ;) |
| 16:17.55 | faenil | we need to work on Nemo... |
| 16:17.56 | strannik1 | Porting the ui wouldnt be a huge problem |
| 16:18.09 | strannik1 | Nemo foss? |
| 16:18.09 | faenil | doomdog: w00t is working on that direction |
| 16:18.13 | faenil | Yes |
| 16:18.21 | faenil | you build the UI |
| 16:18.23 | strannik1 | Nemo is vanilla mego? |
| 16:18.39 | faenil | Nemo is the UX for Mer core |
| 16:18.47 | faenil | Mer core is based on Meego |
| 16:18.48 | DocScrutinizer | err, either meego-core or meego-UI |
| 16:18.57 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 16:19.15 | faenil | Nemo = UX, Mer = Core (based on MeeGo) |
| 16:19.17 | strannik1 | One sec |
| 16:19.25 | faenil | this is the current stage |
| 16:19.39 | faenil | you can talk about this on #meego-arm ;) |
| 16:19.54 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 16:19.58 | doomdog | I would like to see app-based routing in meego |
| 16:20.05 | doomdog | symbian-like |
| 16:20.20 | DocScrutinizer | app-based routing? |
| 16:20.34 | DocScrutinizer | like IRC gors via WLAN only? |
| 16:20.40 | DocScrutinizer | goes* |
| 16:20.52 | doomdog | each app should be able to specify "access point" |
| 16:21.00 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 16:21.22 | doomdog | afaik it's possible in linux based on pid |
| 16:21.29 | doomdog | (routing that is) |
| 16:21.33 | DocScrutinizer | seems easy enough by providing per-app (or rather per-route/usecase) virtual NICs |
| 16:22.03 | DocScrutinizer | or even that, make IPtables PID aware |
| 16:22.18 | DocScrutinizer | basically it's all there for that |
| 16:22.24 | DocScrutinizer | afaik |
| 16:22.30 | doomdog | just needs someone to actually do it ;) |
| 16:22.42 | doomdog | iproute2, iptables, tun/tap maybe |
| 16:22.43 | doomdog | all that stuff |
| 16:22.45 | DocScrutinizer | and an OS that allows to mess with iptables |
| 16:22.58 | DocScrutinizer | ;-) |
| 16:23.03 | doomdog | anyway, it needs to be a framework at the OS level |
| 16:23.49 | doomdog | as it is now, I can always hack an individual app to route through e.g. but I need to duplicate the effort for the next app and so on |
| 16:23.58 | doomdog | through e.g. openvpn |
| 16:24.19 | DocScrutinizer | and you need to mess with ICD2 which is no real fun |
| 16:24.51 | doomdog | replace it altogether? ;) |
| 16:24.56 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, afk for some RL |
| 16:25.02 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
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| 16:45.40 | Arkenoi | seems that some messages that sowatch sends to the watch display are being lost from the phone afterwards |
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| 16:47.06 | spenap | I'm trying to write a postrm script to delete config and stuff when purging, but it seems that the root account is not able to delete things on the user's directory? |
| 16:51.38 | spenap | any advice on that? or should I just give up and leave the config there when uninstalled? |
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| 16:52.41 | DocScrutinizer | spenap: yep, quite possible |
| 16:53.03 | DocScrutinizer | not sure how this is supposed to be handled |
| 16:53.41 | clbr | spenap: not shure what you mean exactly, but probably an aegis thing. is there an aegis-driven locked-stuff garbage collector daemon? |
| 16:53.53 | DocScrutinizer | I'd expect a *signed* pkg (as in "comes from OVI") has the needed permissions/tokens to do such stuff |
| 16:54.19 | spenap | but when you delete something that came from aegis, (long press on the application grid) is that purging? |
| 16:54.27 | spenap | I'd say that's just removing |
| 16:54.39 | DocScrutinizer | or rather, the installer has the permissions to do that on postrm of signed pkgs |
| 16:55.09 | spenap | clbr, I mean a database I'm saving under .local/share/data, configuration files under .config, and cache stuff under .cache |
| 16:55.17 | spenap | DocScrutinizer, I see |
| 16:56.03 | DocScrutinizer | OVI QA in turn would check your postrm does no nasty, and only removes files you actually own |
| 16:56.41 | DocScrutinizer | that'S how it *should* be, mere handwaving on the way it *is* right now |
| 16:57.40 | spenap | heh, yes, OVI QA seems quite busy checking through thousands of RSS apps |
| 16:57.41 | spenap | ¬¬ |
| 16:57.49 | spenap | DocScrutinizer, yesterday I found this "Feedzilla" publisher |
| 16:58.03 | spenap | I wasn't able to scroll to the bottom of his published apps |
| 16:58.24 | spenap | literally impossible: they just kept coming, more and more apps |
| 16:58.43 | clbr | spenap: I already complained to ovi support about this spamming |
| 16:58.51 | clbr | but they need the app counter go up |
| 16:59.23 | spenap | clbr, I sent a complaint as well about this "Nokia" publisher |
| 16:59.35 | spenap | I don't want to accept it's nokia itself |
| 16:59.42 | spenap | some of the apps are way too bad |
| 16:59.59 | spenap | others can be from nokia, I accept that (such as this augmented reality one) |
| 17:00.06 | spenap | but some are simply crap |
| 17:00.21 | spenap | with little (if any) respect to the UX guidelines |
| 17:01.33 | clbr | spenap: do you register these locations (.local/share/data, .config) somehow with aegis? |
| 17:02.16 | spenap | no, I don't. Should I? |
| 17:02.18 | Arkenoi | there was a way to do "full resync" on fremantle and i do not see anything like that on harmattan :-( |
| 17:02.53 | spenap | They are the ones you get when you use QDesktopServices::storageLocation |
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| 17:11.13 | *** join/#harmattan strannik1 (~Strannik@81.5.157.62) |
| 17:13.27 | clbr | spenap: did you try with "su user"? just tried to modify the calendar db with sqlite directly, but this time as "user" user and it worked |
| 17:14.43 | spenap | clbr, when writing to these locations from the app, it works just fine. The problem came when running apt-get remove --purge: it didn't seem to remove the files there |
| 17:14.54 | spenap | anyway, I think I can live with that |
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| 18:36.43 | messerting | I won't bother to register at my-meego.com just to give this feedback, so here it goes (maybe to /dev/null): To make http://n9-apps.com/dropn9 work for me on N9, I had to create /home/user/MyDocs/dropbox manually myself. |
| 18:38.20 | wmarone_ | http://dropn9.my-meego.org/ |
| 18:38.27 | wmarone_ | might want to send the author an e-mail |
| 18:40.32 | chouchoune | who's running n9-apps.com ? |
| 18:41.04 | wmarone_ | http://n9-apps.com/about |
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| 18:49.25 | messerting | I think EasyList from ovi store could be a really great app if it was made more intuitive, and supported two-way sync of *shared* lists. (think shared shopping list with gf) |
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| 18:56.28 | wook | Heya guys, i was wondering, how to switch input mode by key combo on n950? |
| 19:00.09 | faenil | hey wook :D |
| 19:00.14 | faenil | hoopie newbie :D |
| 19:00.21 | wook | Heya noob :D |
| 19:00.55 | wook | If you dont know answer, hush :P :D |
| 19:01.00 | faenil | gentlemen please welcome one of the greatest symbian hackers! |
| 19:01.27 | wook | Zorn? :-O leftup? Where? :P |
| 19:01.28 | strannik1 | Wook? |
| 19:01.41 | strannik1 | Faenil: is it wook? |
| 19:01.45 | faenil | yup |
| 19:02.03 | wook | He's liar, i am just nerdito :D |
| 19:02.07 | Arkenoi | is there a way to selectively restore from backup? say, contacts only? |
| 19:02.13 | strannik1 | Oh wow :) good to see the community has loads of symbian people |
| 19:02.23 | strannik1 | Wook: haha |
| 19:03.16 | wook | Guys, anyone have some console/gui tool for xp to manage deb's? i am fixing PyPacker, but...something's wrong with it :'( :D |
| 19:03.21 | faenil | strannik1: hey if u're from symbian scene you should know me too, lol |
| 19:03.37 | *** part/#harmattan berndhs (~berndhs@2604:8800:11b:1:21e:90ff:fe8f:8bee) |
| 19:03.42 | wook | Andrea, you came when most of us left :P ;) |
| 19:03.51 | faenil | wook, stfu xD |
| 19:04.07 | wook | We used c2z for all mods, you had fancy tools like RomCooker....:P |
| 19:04.15 | wook | Stfu ragazza :D |
| 19:04.28 | faenil | hits wook |
| 19:04.43 | wook | *me spanks faenil |
| 19:04.50 | faenil | me fail..lol |
| 19:04.53 | wook | Was it something like this? :D |
| 19:04.54 | messerting | wook: on N9 it is swipe left or right starting on the keyboard |
| 19:05.01 | faenil | yes but with / |
| 19:05.38 | wook | spanks ragazza's ass :D |
| 19:05.57 | faenil | lol |
| 19:06.09 | wook | Messerting, hmm, i need to switch input language/keyboard |
| 19:06.39 | wook | Shift + space on n900 as o remember |
| 19:07.10 | faenil | wook: you do that by swiping |
| 19:07.14 | faenil | -.- |
| 19:07.29 | faenil | if you have more languages installed in settings --> time and input -> keyboards installed or something |
| 19:07.34 | wook | Swyping over kbd? :-O strange, lemme try |
| 19:07.58 | faenil | yes, from left to right EDGE |
| 19:08.07 | faenil | the other way too ;) |
| 19:08.21 | wook | WoooooW |
| 19:08.42 | wook | Really :D :D this is cool :D i should read all docs :D |
| 19:08.54 | wook | But, easier to ask ;) :D |
| 19:09.31 | wook | Ragazza, can you try to use KhtEditor? |
| 19:09.46 | wook | It fails with me when i start new file :S :'( |
| 19:10.04 | faenil | why should it work here than :D |
| 19:10.06 | faenil | then* D |
| 19:10.59 | wook | Because many things dun work with me cox i skip sm "step by step to hack anything" instructions :D |
| 19:11.27 | faenil | lol |
| 19:11.37 | faenil | where's the deb? |
| 19:11.52 | wook | Google for it, dun have link (e7) :D |
| 19:12.30 | faenil | lol |
| 19:12.49 | wook | No LOL (join #python and see) :D |
| 19:12.58 | faenil | haahhaah |
| 19:14.07 | jesuschrist | who is ragazza |
| 19:14.19 | wook | Faenil is ragazza :D |
| 19:14.42 | jesuschrist | hi ragazza, im christ, jesuschrist nice to meet you |
| 19:14.56 | wook | Ciao ragazza :D |
| 19:15.18 | faenil | wook : he's from israel ;) |
| 19:15.23 | wook | Jesus, that's only his nickname, nothing more :D |
| 19:15.46 | faenil | wook: u're sad -.- |
| 19:15.48 | wook | Faenil: and you are Roman :-O |
| 19:15.52 | faenil | hoope newbie |
| 19:15.55 | faenil | yes I am |
| 19:16.00 | faenil | that's why I know him |
| 19:16.00 | faenil | lol |
| 19:16.25 | wook | Yes, i am sadl i have some bloody tarFile.py error and i will have to patch it or to mod my app :S |
| 19:16.42 | faenil | where's tarFile from |
| 19:16.45 | jesuschrist | you got a n9 faenil ? |
| 19:16.57 | faenil | yes and n950 |
| 19:17.14 | wook | TarFile.py is from c:\python26\bla...bla\ |
| 19:17.36 | faenil | oh k |
| 19:17.41 | faenil | is it bugged? |
| 19:17.48 | wook | Need it for making debs |
| 19:18.01 | wook | Seems like, or my app is :D lol |
| 19:18.03 | faenil | oh k |
| 19:18.06 | faenil | lol |
| 19:18.17 | wook | You used SmartSIS? |
| 19:18.33 | wook | Faenil, do you feel like alien here? |
| 19:18.38 | faenil | I used qtcreator automatic deploym,ent... |
| 19:18.43 | faenil | wook: why? |
| 19:18.59 | faenil | I used makesis, but for Symbian lol |
| 19:19.33 | wook | Yea and i need PyPacker to pack :D so, i am upto make it work like SmartSIS or Py2Sis |
| 19:20.15 | wook | Why? idk, i feel like alien :S (always get 10000 questions on just one question i ask....) :D |
| 19:20.39 | wook | is eating, bbs (be back sooner_or_later) |
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| 19:24.54 | faenil | sorry bro, I was eating too (wook ^) |
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| 19:34.06 | wook | is back, any rgazzas missed him? :D |
| 19:34.23 | wook | LoL |
| 19:35.00 | faenil | lol |
| 19:36.53 | wook | :P |
| 19:46.04 | wook | I think i got stucked :S |
| 19:46.08 | wook | Bbl :S |
| 19:58.14 | faenil | is there anyone from nokia I can talk to to have some explanations about lags in Harmattan? |
| 20:20.18 | strannik1 | What |
| 20:20.26 | strannik1 | Lags in harmatton? |
| 20:20.29 | strannik1 | Serious? |
| 20:20.53 | strannik1 | Faenil: is it bad? |
| 20:21.12 | faenil | it lags in MANY situations |
| 20:21.41 | faenil | I am disappointed about many of those...and I'm looking for anyone who can tell me why |
| 20:21.47 | faenil | hope to find a techincal reason |
| 20:21.53 | faenil | but I know there's none |
| 20:22.48 | strannik1 | Oh |
| 20:22.59 | strannik1 | Now that has really put me of from getting the n9 |
| 20:23.37 | strannik1 | How does performance compare to say an iphone 4 |
| 20:23.50 | strannik1 | I believe the cpus are similair |
| 20:24.05 | faenil | I have seen the iphone4 lag some times |
| 20:24.24 | faenil | it's more difficult to make it lag, but it lags some times... (rare cases anyway) |
| 20:24.32 | faenil | but I haven't played with it for long, so don't know |
| 20:24.41 | faenil | Iphone4S? Could not make it lose 1 fps |
| 20:24.42 | faenil | .... |
| 20:24.50 | faenil | it was just rock solid, whatever I did |
| 20:26.05 | strannik1 | Yea havnt played with the 4s yet |
| 20:26.30 | strannik1 | But damm , does harmattan lag in menus? |
| 20:26.34 | strannik1 | Or in apps? |
| 20:26.44 | faenil | have you got one? |
| 20:26.55 | strannik1 | Maybe an app of yours is taking up ram? Too many apps open? Etc |
| 20:26.59 | faenil | nono |
| 20:27.01 | faenil | have you got one? |
| 20:27.04 | strannik1 | Not yet no |
| 20:27.11 | strannik1 | I am looking to get the n9 |
| 20:27.18 | faenil | mm ok, otherwise I would have you try it ;) |
| 20:27.28 | faenil | I'll tell you some cases |
| 20:27.42 | faenil | 1) scroll + open notification bar (upper one) |
| 20:27.57 | faenil | 2) scroll while receiving an event (i.e. the notification on top appears) |
| 20:28.05 | faenil | 3) facebook app |
| 20:28.08 | faenil | 4) twitter app |
| 20:28.35 | faenil | apart from more normal ones like heavy websites... |
| 20:29.03 | strannik1 | Grr nokia really messes up with small things (they loved to break fast scrolling in symbian) |
| 20:29.36 | strannik1 | It must be a software bug... i doubt that the hardware cant handle it |
| 20:30.30 | strannik1 | Is it always reproducable? |
| 20:30.54 | faenil | sure it is, it is a software issue man, not a bug, just bad written code |
| 20:30.58 | faenil | not optimized, and such |
| 20:31.17 | faenil | I'm beginning to think the whole top bar (notifications and bar) are not hw accelerated |
| 20:32.26 | strannik1 | I am actually playing with the insane idea of creating a group project of creating our own open source ux |
| 20:32.47 | strannik1 | Nokia should just open source the damm thing already |
| 20:33.05 | dm8tbr | it's called handset-ux and that's the nemo project |
| 20:33.36 | strannik1 | Although they are releasing their first major software update |
| 20:35.22 | strannik1 | Dm8tbr: ahh ok so that what nemo is. Good stuff . I had to many 4 lettered acronyms fortoday |
| 20:35.53 | dm8tbr | nemo is not an acronym, it's a name |
| 20:36.01 | strannik1 | Faenil: is there anyway of letting nokia know? |
| 20:36.11 | strannik1 | Dm8tbr: sorry thats what i meant |
| 20:36.49 | faenil | strannik1: that's what I was looking for |
| 20:37.12 | faenil | I should have asked for more info about it at Qt Dev Days at the "N9 Clinic" but I forgot about that :( |
| 20:39.08 | faenil | I just tried to get more info about the release of n9 update |
| 20:39.12 | faenil | and all I was told is |
| 20:39.21 | faenil | "I know when it's coming out and the roadmap, but I can't tell you" :D |
| 20:39.39 | strannik1 | Lol haha XD |
| 20:39.51 | faenil | evil world :) |
| 20:39.51 | strannik1 | I am trying to find more info on the update |
| 20:39.55 | strannik1 | Yea |
| 20:41.43 | strannik1 | I dont think they mention what they fixed and what features they added |
| 20:43.17 | strannik1 | Hmm music controls, nfc reading , and some other bullshit , thats all that is mentioned |
| 20:43.33 | faenil | they usually release the changelog with the update |
| 20:43.46 | faenil | slighlty more detailed, but just slightly |
| 20:45.17 | strannik1 | You have both the n9 and the n950? |
| 20:46.31 | faenil | ye |
| 20:46.40 | faenil | using n950 atm coz I can't live without swype |
| 20:46.41 | faenil | :) |
| 20:46.53 | strannik1 | Hahaha :) |
| 20:46.59 | faenil | :P |
| 20:47.05 | strannik1 | Same slow downs on the n950? |
| 20:48.28 | strannik1 | Apparently the camera can do 12megapixels :O |
| 20:51.50 | faenil | ofc same slowdowns |
| 20:51.53 | faenil | yes it can |
| 20:52.06 | faenil | always known that, blogs reported 12mp before n950 was out |
| 20:53.25 | strannik1 | Well yea the n9 teaser video showed 12mp if you freeze frame |
| 20:54.15 | strannik1 | I mean the original metal n9(50) teaser |
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| 20:54.21 | faenil | oh ok |
| 20:56.57 | strannik1 | You know what i mean :) the trailer that showed the metal n950 . But that was supposed to be the n9 |
| 20:57.39 | faenil | yeah I know |
| 20:58.03 | strannik1 | They should still release that phone to the public |
| 20:58.50 | faenil | :) |
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| 21:03.34 | faenil | night night people :) |
| 21:04.02 | strannik1 | Faenil: good night |
| 21:04.06 | strannik1 | Have a good one |
| 21:20.03 | jesuschrist | wasnt the camera 8 mega ? |
| 21:24.39 | arcean | where? n950? |
| 21:24.52 | jesuschrist | n9 |
| 21:25.07 | arcean | 8.7MPix or sth like that |
| 21:25.16 | jesuschrist | and the n950 12 ? |
| 21:25.20 | arcean | yes |
| 21:25.27 | jesuschrist | oh christ |
| 21:25.29 | jesuschrist | :D |
| 21:25.35 | arcean | lol |
| 21:25.49 | arcean | jesuschrist said 'oh christ' :D |
| 21:26.24 | strannik1 | Lol there was a guy earlier on here from israel |
| 21:26.25 | jesuschrist | thats because you are a mortal and didnt understand what i said |
| 21:26.47 | strannik1 | He wanted to know if there were any israeli guys here also looking to buy the n9 |
| 21:27.04 | strannik1 | I couldnt resist but to recommend jesus christ :D |
| 21:27.51 | jesuschrist | arcean do you have a n950 too ? |
| 21:28.06 | arcean | yup :) |
| 21:28.40 | jesuschrist | so you are developing apps for the n950 ? |
| 21:28.48 | jesuschrist | slash n9 |
| 21:29.14 | arcean | of course |
| 21:29.15 | strannik1 | Havnt you been slashed enough?? Alright alright i will stop it :P |
| 21:29.35 | strannik1 | Haha :) |
| 21:30.16 | jesuschrist | performs a miracle and make strannik1 nuts explode |
| 21:30.40 | strannik1 | :D |
| 21:31.20 | arcean | jesuschrist: actually, I'm working on app similiar to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7bLmTyPZCk |
| 21:32.07 | jesuschrist | hmm |
| 21:32.17 | jesuschrist | what exactly it does |
| 21:32.17 | *** part/#harmattan Sicelo (sicelo@unaffiliated/sicelo) |
| 21:33.16 | arcean | it's a video, which can be used as a proof in case of some kind of car accident |
| 21:33.45 | jesuschrist | how much you greedy developer are you going to ask for that |
| 21:36.06 | *** join/#harmattan zogg_laptop (~zogg@bzq-79-177-202-146.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 21:37.43 | strannik1 | Arcean: lol jesus is harsh |
| 21:37.48 | strannik1 | That looks cool |
| 21:38.07 | jesuschrist | yeah its cool |
| 21:38.29 | jesuschrist | does anything like guardian for symbian exists on meego ? |
| 21:38.34 | gri | would like it if you supported number-plate scanning :) |
| 21:38.43 | arcean | nah, actually I think it will be free, GNU GPL |
| 21:38.52 | jesuschrist | high five arcy |
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| 21:39.57 | zogg_laptop | hey |
| 21:40.02 | strannik1 | But technicaly you are not obliged to release anything ? |
| 21:40.07 | strannik1 | Zogg_laptop: hi |
| 21:40.09 | zogg_laptop | i would like to hear some advice |
| 21:40.38 | zogg_laptop | found someone who said he can sell me n9 for 550usd for 64 gb version |
| 21:40.47 | zogg_laptop | just wonder how truthful it s |
| 21:40.52 | jesuschrist | is he from nigeria? |
| 21:40.56 | zogg_laptop | is* |
| 21:41.14 | arcean | strannik1: it will be released, but still there's a lot of work to be done |
| 21:41.32 | zogg_laptop | =\ |
| 21:41.42 | jesuschrist | trust him 100% zogg |
| 21:41.53 | jesuschrist | (;D) |
| 21:43.15 | strannik1 | Arcean: no i mean theoretically if nokia decided to send me a n950 but i dont actually manage to develop anything decent. Would i have to release something |
| 21:44.27 | strannik1 | Arcean: i applied for the n950 and promised to port existing maemo apps and optimize them for touch ui . But i never received a n950 :( |
| 21:44.35 | *** join/#harmattan zogg_ (~zogg@bzq-79-177-202-146.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 21:45.39 | arcean | strannik1: I have no idea. But I think it would be nice to release something |
| 21:50.27 | strannik1 | Well yea ofcourse .. Maybe they didnt like me because i just wanted to ported existing things |
| 21:50.49 | strannik1 | ... Which i think is still usefull |
| 21:58.54 | jesuschrist | the app for n900 are on ovi ? |
| 22:37.28 | *** join/#harmattan divan (~divan@89.209.253.77) |
| 22:37.35 | M4rtinK | X-Fade: did you just trigger a complete COBS rebuild ? :) |
| 22:38.35 | M4rtinK | hmm, maybe a site upgrade ? even the status graphs look nicer :) |
| 23:00.41 | X-Fade | M4rtinK: Yeah, upgrade to OBS 2.3. |
| 23:00.56 | X-Fade | M4rtinK: Will take a while to churn through everything :) |
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