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| 00:03.07 | DocScrutinizer | blueslee, Free-MG: there's no use in restoring "original file" - aegis hashes across full file content *plus inode*, so odds are you never get back the same inode on "restoring original file" |
| 00:03.50 | DocScrutinizer | ~may-i-edit |
| 00:03.50 | infobot | may-I-edit () { grep `basename $1` /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" && exit; echo "edit if you feel venturous"; } |
| 00:03.53 | mgedmin | I doubt any css files are hashed? |
| 00:04.40 | DocScrutinizer | whats da file? |
| 00:05.08 | mgedmin | /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/libsysuid-screenlock-nokia/style/libsysuid-screenlock-nokia.css apparently |
| 00:07.49 | DocScrutinizer | ~ $ mayIedit /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/libsysuid-screenlock-nokia/style/libsysuid-screenlock-nokia.css |
| 00:07.50 | DocScrutinizer | edit if you feel venturous |
| 00:08.24 | itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer: hmm? aegis hashes content only |
| 00:08.32 | itsnotabigtruck | but the hash list entry contains the inode |
| 00:08.52 | itsnotabigtruck | but it updates the inode every reboot |
| 00:09.01 | itsnotabigtruck | so restore the original file content and reboot |
| 00:09.10 | itsnotabigtruck | the UID, GID, and permissions have to match too |
| 00:13.26 | DocScrutinizer | infobot: no, may-I-edit is <reply> mayIedit () { grep "`basename $1`" /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" && return; echo "edit if you feel venturous"; } |
| 00:13.26 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer |
| 00:15.36 | DocScrutinizer | itsnotabigtruck: *who* is going to update the inode in refhashlist on boot? |
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| 00:18.07 | itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer: well, to be exact |
| 00:18.17 | itsnotabigtruck | .. /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist contains paths |
| 00:18.28 | itsnotabigtruck | .. /sys/kernel/security/validator/hashlist contains inodes |
| 00:18.54 | itsnotabigtruck | on boot, the paths are converted to inode numbers and loaded into k-space |
| 00:19.17 | itsnotabigtruck | so no one has to update the inodes in refhashlist because there aren't any |
| 00:19.44 | DocScrutinizer | and the hash is not across inode*, inode, file-content? |
| 00:19.57 | itsnotabigtruck | for example, i deleted /usr/bin/ping accidentally the other day but had a copy, so i copied it back but it wouldn't run |
| 00:20.11 | itsnotabigtruck | so i just had to reboot, which loaded the same hash into the kernel but with the new inode number |
| 00:20.18 | itsnotabigtruck | nope, content only |
| 00:20.49 | itsnotabigtruck | but it does in addition to the hash validate uid/gid/mode |
| 00:21.03 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, so how e.g permissions get checked then? |
| 00:21.19 | itsnotabigtruck | not through the hash, they're just specified in the line |
| 00:22.02 | DocScrutinizer | mhm, so the line itself gets hashed then? |
| 00:22.24 | DocScrutinizer | aah wait, the refhashlist is protected |
| 00:22.33 | itsnotabigtruck | well, refhashlist is part of the chain of trust and is signed |
| 00:22.35 | itsnotabigtruck | yeah |
| 00:22.57 | itsnotabigtruck | the hashes are to protect the file content, not to protect the line |
| 00:23.20 | DocScrutinizer | thanks for correcting my flawed idea of that |
| 00:23.23 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
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| 00:32.30 | ZogG_laptop | mgedmin: sup |
| 00:44.55 | ZogG_laptop | y |
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| 01:43.46 | DocScrutinizer | hey, short poll: what do you prefer? a aegis infested HARM system where aegis still gets in your way every second shell cmdline you type in, while some clever hack removed/neutered the only actual thing aegis can deliver: disabling installation of packages from random possibly rogue source. Or a openmode harm system where aegis doesn't basically run anymore, and you have to "pay" for that by looking at a "scary warranty screen" during |
| 01:43.47 | DocScrutinizer | boot, and by taking responsibility for your system by yourself just like you have to do on arbitrary *real* linux? |
| 01:45.18 | DocScrutinizer | while with responsibility comes sufficient power to actually take care about your interests on your own |
| 01:46.14 | DocScrutinizer | additional info: Nokia probably will frown at #1, at very least. While they evidently supported #2 actively |
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| 02:09.42 | Tronic | I don't want any extra nags either. |
| 02:10.40 | Tronic | So, option #3: no aegis, no nags, everything works (and I can install malware on my device). |
| 02:11.00 | Sazpaimon | >implying aegis can stop malware |
| 02:11.49 | Tronic | While at that, I want to be able to overclock like on N900. |
| 02:11.58 | Tronic | (well, preferably with a GUI) |
| 02:12.18 | SpeedEvil | Aegis can stop malware - if properly implemented, with sane and skilled reviewers. |
| 02:19.35 | Sazpaimon | so say I really wanted an N950 (i don't) |
| 02:19.47 | Sazpaimon | if money wasn't an object, how much would I expect to pay |
| 02:20.12 | Sazpaimon | ive heard people paying upwards to $1000 for one |
| 02:21.30 | Tronic | Sazpaimon: Developers have to pay Nokia 500 EUR if they lose the device. Use that as a starting point... |
| 02:21.51 | SpeedEvil | The hardware is nice. |
| 02:21.55 | SpeedEvil | The software has issues |
| 02:22.42 | Tronic | The software is quite fine, too. |
| 02:23.00 | SpeedEvil | From a user POV, arguably. |
| 02:23.14 | Tronic | Yes, it has a security system, and some bugs, but still it is so much better than anything else you can get for a phone. |
| 02:23.20 | Tronic | (including Fremantle) |
| 02:23.38 | Sazpaimon | Tronic, thats if they tell nokia |
| 02:24.01 | Sazpaimon | or will nokia replace a "lost" n950 if they pay the fee |
| 02:24.25 | Tronic | Sazpaimon: Well, I would suspect Nokia finding out if the devices were openly auctioned or something. Plus there are very few devices and the developers *really* like them. |
| 02:24.29 | Sazpaimon | i also assume if they reported the device lost the IMEI would be blacklisted |
| 02:25.14 | Tronic | And there are no replacements. |
| 02:25.33 | Tronic | I have a lot of dead pixels on mine but apparently it cannot be replaced. |
| 02:26.02 | Sazpaimon | yeah i heard dead pixels run rampant on N950s |
| 02:26.08 | Sazpaimon | one of the few reasons I dont want one |
| 02:26.45 | Sazpaimon | that and nokia completely ignored my application to the developer launchpad when they first announced it |
| 02:27.19 | SpeedEvil | They're spraying Lumia 800s around like they come out of a firehose. |
| 02:28.18 | Sazpaimon | its the stockpile of the ones that people arent buying |
| 02:28.42 | Sazpaimon | thinking of re-applying or asking nokia wtf is up with my application just to get a lumia 800 for parts |
| 02:29.10 | Sazpaimon | i applied like 6 months ago and never got a response |
| 02:30.05 | SpeedEvil | odd. |
| 02:30.33 | Tronic | SpeedEvil: Yep, the aftermarket was flooded with those long before the device was even on sale in Finland. |
| 02:30.35 | Sazpaimon | they might have given me one, but i was laid off from the company I used back in late october |
| 02:30.44 | Sazpaimon | so i have no access to that email |
| 02:31.18 | Tronic | I got one to try it out. Turned out to be total crap (unless you love iPhones, maybe), so I sold it. |
| 02:31.22 | Sazpaimon | we were doing legitimate video development for a video on demand service anyway |
| 02:31.51 | Sazpaimon | *legitimate mobile development |
| 02:32.14 | Tronic | Sazpaimon: Lesson of the day: never use your company/university email for anything personal. |
| 02:33.26 | Sazpaimon | it wasnt personal |
| 02:33.45 | Sazpaimon | it was a legitimate request on behalf of the company i worked for |
| 02:34.05 | Sazpaimon | but i lost interest when, after a week or two, their stock of N950s were exhausted |
| 02:42.56 | Tronic | Ok. I started avoiding the use of such emails for anything that I might care about personally after some bad experiences with emails getting closed or redirected without any prior warning. |
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| 07:01.47 | itsnotabigtruck | anyone know if calenderr has been updated such that it doesn't spawn loads of processes? |
| 07:03.39 | itsnotabigtruck | looks like that's a no :( |
| 07:06.41 | itsnotabigtruck | i'm inclined to try reimplementing it on timed or whatever the 'right' way for scheduling tasks is |
| 07:07.21 | itsnotabigtruck | on a semi-related note, what's the difference between realxid and setxid mode in aegis |
| 07:08.14 | itsnotabigtruck | i believe one of the two causes a process's uid/gid to be set by aegis, but the description in the docs is self-contradictory i think |
| 07:10.32 | itsnotabigtruck | though if the effective uid is always set by aegis, then asserting UID::root should grant all access to unprotected files in any case |
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| 07:40.55 | qronic | ~seen SimonLR |
| 07:40.58 | infobot | simonlr <~hawaii@d24-235-199-148.home1.cgocable.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 634d 13h 27m 24s ago, saying: 'I wrestled a bear once'. |
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| 08:21.38 | blueslee | DocScrutinizer: ping |
| 08:26.38 | blueslee | if i use the rescue image, use dd for all 3 partitions, can i use those to restore my n9 completely? this should be the case or not? |
| 08:53.29 | blueslee | are the servers behinf ovi store down? |
| 08:55.02 | blueslee | works now |
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| 10:13.07 | RzR | hi |
| 10:13.21 | RzR | if you'rre at fosdem just screem |
| 10:13.27 | RzR | scream |
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| 10:21.08 | dm8tbr | waves from FOSDEM |
| 10:21.17 | dm8tbr | YELLS AT RZR |
| 10:22.12 | RzR | dm8tbr: are u in front of mr sstkeeps ? |
| 10:22.22 | dm8tbr | nope, sitting in the keynote |
| 10:24.15 | gri | ~seen spenap |
| 10:24.20 | infobot | spenap <~simon@cs27071229.pp.htv.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 51d 23h 48m 45s ago, saying: 'is there any link to the latest one-click flasher for the N950? I could find only the beta 1, the link to beta 2 was no longer valid'. |
| 10:24.59 | RzR | lbt_away: hurry up |
| 10:25.35 | RzR | lbt_away: whole fosdem is cheering |
| 10:29.54 | blueslee | is there a live stream from fosdem? |
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| 10:37.41 | Free-MG | blueslee: N9 booting? |
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| 10:40.17 | blueslee | Free-MG: yes, unfortunately i had to reflash evertyhing, mmc included ... with the help of the rescue image i should be able to dd all thre partitions for a backup/restore, right? |
| 10:40.36 | blueslee | Free-MG: many thanks for your help by the way |
| 10:42.20 | blueslee | thp: i had to restore my backup yesterday, the gpodder client is completly converted into a commercial package now? |
| 10:45.40 | Free-MG | blueslee: i make a backup with tar......I'm not sure what you mean, my english is not so good |
| 10:46.33 | blueslee | Free-MG: with dd you can backup/restore complete partitions... |
| 10:49.10 | Free-MG | blueslee: ok, is it better for me with tar |
| 11:02.29 | blueslee | Free-MG: normally i would say its safer with dd, you dont need to handle permission rights etc |
| 11:07.01 | Free-MG | blueslee: ok, what command you are using for e.g. rootfs with dd |
| 11:17.02 | blueslee | Free-MG: depends on the device, "dd if=/dev/sdxy of=rootfs.img" |
| 11:17.59 | blueslee | Free-MG: i think using tar with "-p" option is also okay |
| 11:22.23 | Free-MG | blueslee: i use cvfp, dd needs more space than tar as I understand it , but I like to try it once |
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| 11:25.59 | blueslee | Free-MG: thats true, but you can zip your dd image |
| 11:26.55 | *** join/#harmattan divan (~divan@89.209.253.77) |
| 11:27.33 | Free-MG | bluesless: yes, that's true again :) |
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| 11:33.47 | djszapi | rZr 'sup |
| 11:34.07 | *** join/#harmattan admiral0 (~admiral0@adsl-ull-208-141.48-151.net24.it) |
| 11:34.18 | djszapi | Err....anybody helping with exporting my odp presentation to pdf ? :) |
| 11:34.24 | djszapi | Libreoffice kills the OS here :D |
| 11:35.04 | rZr | djszapi: hi i am in front of matrx presenting qml |
| 11:41.36 | rZr | djszapi: sstkeeps reported u had issue at the airport ? |
| 11:41.59 | djszapi | not the airport, but in Helsinki. :) |
| 11:42.09 | djszapi | Also, I lost my stuff last night at the bar :/ |
| 11:42.34 | rZr | so will u able to present aktive? |
| 11:44.59 | admiral0 | hello people |
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| 11:53.23 | ZogG_laptop | divan: sup |
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| 14:18.08 | djszapi | aheinecke: what do you advise, kmail ? |
| 14:25.02 | petteri | seems like i cannot ssh from N9 to my laptop sometimes, googled a bit and it could be somekind of wlan powersave thing. If I first ping from my laptop and then try the ssh from N9 it works. Any way to "wake up" the connection from n9 side? |
| 14:30.14 | admiral0 | happens the same for me, but the opposite |
| 14:30.27 | admiral0 | cannot ssh to n9 via wlan |
| 14:30.47 | mgedmin | yeah |
| 14:30.48 | rZr | djszapi: hi again |
| 14:30.58 | mgedmin | ping mg-n9.lan drops the first 10-20 packets, then it works |
| 14:31.04 | mgedmin | and then I can ssh mg-n9 |
| 14:31.08 | mgedmin | seems to be a problem with ARP |
| 14:31.19 | admiral0 | just powersave is aggressive |
| 14:31.34 | mgedmin | perhaps packets to the n9's MAC address wake it up at once, but broadcast packets wake it up only once every N seconds |
| 14:31.48 | rZr | is listening to rasterman |
| 14:32.05 | mgedmin | (why I say ARP: I can ssh my router and ping the n9 and it replies at once, while ping that is running at the same time on my laptop still drops the first 10 packets) |
| 14:37.58 | petteri | hmm.. so my super rsync app cannot work if don't first ping from the laptop my n9 :P |
| 14:38.01 | petteri | damn |
| 14:38.06 | dm8tbr | add a static ARP entry :) |
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| 14:38.37 | mgedmin | I don't think you need to ping |
| 14:38.42 | mgedmin | you just need to keep retrying |
| 14:39.12 | mgedmin | hm, is there an app that would try pinging X for up to N seconds and quit on the first successful reply? |
| 14:39.21 | mgedmin | ping is... bad at timeouts, iirc |
| 14:40.01 | mgedmin | it has the -w option but I think I had trouble with it in the past |
| 14:40.17 | mgedmin | ah, I wanted to time-out after 1 second, but that didn't apply to DNS timeouts, which took up to 30 seconds |
| 14:40.22 | mgedmin | so not related to this use case |
| 14:40.33 | faenil | is there any mirror for Qt SDK 1.2 Linux 64bit? Nokia's servers are SOOOOO SLOW! atm |
| 14:40.56 | mgedmin | petter: have your rsync app run 'ping -c 1 -w 30 a.d.d.r' before you try to connect, maybe |
| 14:41.25 | mgedmin | has a pygtk app for uploading e-books to the nicely structured obsessive-compulsive e-book directory structure; it works via sshfs |
| 14:41.34 | petteri | mgedmin: i could always try that |
| 14:41.52 | mgedmin | considers adding this hack to it with maybe a nice progress bar |
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| 14:42.34 | mgedmin | because so far it either works on 1st attempt, or I have to retry a couple of times, or I have to wait like 30 seconds before retrying, which means I get bored and start pinging in a new xterm |
| 14:57.27 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo_N950 (~venemo@fedora/Venemo) |
| 14:57.53 | Venemo_N950 | why doesn't my N950 find the PR 1.2 update? |
| 14:58.31 | Venemo_N950 | it says "device is up to date" |
| 14:59.42 | mgedmin | there's no OTA upgrades for PR 1.2 |
| 14:59.49 | mgedmin | you need to download the one click flasher |
| 14:59.52 | Venemo_N950 | mmmhm |
| 14:59.59 | mgedmin | nokia developers blog gave some rationale for that |
| 15:00.15 | mgedmin | since you CAN'T DOWGRADE (yeah, wtf), you must make a conscious decision to upgrade |
| 15:00.17 | Venemo_N950 | the flasher link from the wiki gives me a 404 |
| 15:00.26 | mgedmin | since you're supposed to test your apps with PR 1.0 and 1.1 before uploading them to the ovi store |
| 15:00.54 | Venemo_N950 | that's understandable |
| 15:02.01 | mgedmin | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/n9-developer/2012/01/25/harmattan-1.2-beta-now-available-as-ocf-for-nokia-n950 |
| 15:02.22 | mgedmin | download link: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950/firmware/ |
| 15:02.28 | mgedmin | it gives you 1.2, but doesn't tell you it's BETA |
| 15:02.29 | mgedmin | grr |
| 15:02.48 | mgedmin | also "Note: You cannot return from a Chinese variant to the corresponding Global variant! So unless you are developing for the applications for the Chinese markets, do not install the Chinese variant on your device." |
| 15:02.53 | mgedmin | omgwtfbbqheaddeslk |
| 15:03.58 | djszapi | Venemo_N950: hi :) |
| 15:05.13 | mgedmin | oh hey, my n950 still has pr 1.0, because the 1.1 ota upgrade failed |
| 15:05.17 | mgedmin | which is actually good |
| 15:05.26 | mgedmin | (if I wanted to test the app before uploading to ovi store) |
| 15:05.37 | mgedmin | (but first I'd have to find the round tuits to finish the damn app!) |
| 15:05.42 | Venemo_N950 | hey djszapi |
| 15:06.27 | Venemo_N950 | mgedmin, thx for the links :) |
| 15:13.56 | *** join/#harmattan blueslee (~held@ip-109-90-73-55.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 15:17.38 | DocScrutinizer | or simply |
| 15:17.42 | DocScrutinizer | ~update |
| 15:17.43 | infobot | i heard update is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/n9-developer/2012/01/25/harmattan-1.2-beta-now-available-as-ocf-for-nokia-n950 |
| 15:17.57 | DocScrutinizer | see /topic |
| 15:18.56 | virtuald | what happens if you try to flash it on an n9? |
| 15:19.20 | DocScrutinizer | won't work I guess, certs not matching |
| 15:19.29 | DocScrutinizer | should refuse to start flashing |
| 15:25.46 | DocScrutinizer | >>Naturally you can buy a stock of Nokia N9’s for your testing needs. But if that is not working for you then you can rely on the Remote Device Access (RDA) service as well as the SDK QEMU tool.<< BWAHAHA! |
| 15:30.03 | DocScrutinizer | please Nokia explain to us the rationale for "downgrade not possible" and if this rationale is worth it to deliberately break proper development usecases. -- Alas I'm afraid the product damagers to blame for this insane no-dwongrade and generally the "security" crap policy won't learn from this, not a single bit |
| 15:30.32 | admiral0 | ~aegis-no-thanks |
| 15:30.32 | infobot | [aegis-no-thanks] http://maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/N9/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/ |
| 15:31.00 | admiral0 | ~update |
| 15:31.00 | infobot | it has been said that update is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/n9-developer/2012/01/25/harmattan-1.2-beta-now-available-as-ocf-for-nokia-n950 |
| 15:31.27 | DocScrutinizer | smiles at admiral0 |
| 15:31.51 | DocScrutinizer | admiral0: right on, right on! :-) |
| 15:32.03 | *** join/#harmattan benares_98 (~user@208.70.18.120) |
| 15:32.13 | mgedmin | forbidding downgrades is probably about not letting people jailbreak their n9 if a bug is found in an older aegis implementation or something |
| 15:32.14 | admiral0 | was just curious who would answer and what |
| 15:32.16 | mgedmin | i.e. pure evil |
| 15:32.39 | admiral0 | we are more evil |
| 15:32.51 | DocScrutinizer | admiral0: duh, and I thought you appreciated the stuff I provide there |
| 15:32.58 | admiral0 | i personally won't report any aegis bug |
| 15:33.11 | admiral0 | DocScrutinizer: heh? |
| 15:33.56 | DocScrutinizer | admiral0: eh? |
| 15:34.13 | DocScrutinizer | ~factinfo aegis-no-thanks |
| 15:34.13 | infobot | aegis-no-thanks -- created by DocScrutinizer <~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Fri Dec 9 22:52:11 2011 (56 days); last modified at Sat Dec 10 15:10:11 2011 by DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg; it has been requested 17 times, last by admiral0, 3m 41s ago. |
| 15:34.37 | admiral0 | ~factinfo update |
| 15:34.37 | infobot | update -- last modified at Fri Apr 27 17:35:47 2007 by Kirkburn|afk!n=Kirkburn@82-32-40-219.cable.ubr06.azte.blueyonder.co.uk; it has been requested 13 times, last by DocScrutinizer at Wed Jan 25 11:11:14 2012. |
| 15:34.42 | admiral0 | ah |
| 15:35.04 | DocScrutinizer | ~factinfo #harmattan update |
| 15:35.04 | infobot | #harmattan update -- created by DocScrutinizer <~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Wed Jan 25 18:09:27 2012 (9 days); it has been requested 7 times, last by admiral0, 4m 4s ago. |
| 15:35.05 | the-boss` | infobot: Error: "harmattan" is not a valid command. |
| 15:35.05 | infobot | the-boss`: okay |
| 15:35.06 | the-boss` | infobot: Error: "okay" is not a valid command. |
| 15:35.06 | infobot | the-boss`: i already had it that way |
| 15:35.08 | the-boss` | infobot: Error: "i" is not a valid command. |
| 15:35.08 | infobot | the-boss`: i already had it that way |
| 15:35.25 | admiral0 | fail |
| 15:36.19 | admiral0 | anyway i think ~update should be renamed to ~pr1.2 |
| 15:36.25 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, I think the-boss` is *very* close to a /kickban |
| 15:36.51 | DocScrutinizer | admiral0: why? |
| 15:37.35 | admiral0 | it would be more self explanatory if someone actually reads topic before asking |
| 15:37.37 | DocScrutinizer | ~pr1.2 |
| 15:37.37 | infobot | i guess pr1.2 is available since early Tuesday morning. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/ -- see ~flashing for how to update |
| 15:37.54 | admiral0 | oh |
| 15:38.04 | admiral0 | it's about fremantle :P |
| 15:38.42 | DocScrutinizer | ~factinfo pr1.2 |
| 15:38.42 | infobot | pr1.2 -- created by crashanddie_ <~crashandd@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie> at Tue May 25 11:16:20 2010 (620 days); it has been requested 21 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 1m 5s ago. |
| 15:39.35 | DocScrutinizer | ~#harmattan pr1.2 is <reply>see #harmattan update |
| 15:39.35 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer |
| 15:39.42 | DocScrutinizer | ~pr1.2 |
| 15:39.42 | infobot | from memory, #harmattan update is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/n9-developer/2012/01/25/harmattan-1.2-beta-now-available-as-ocf-for-nokia-n950 |
| 15:40.09 | admiral0 | you rox |
| 15:41.12 | admiral0 | btw, do you still own the freerunner? |
| 15:42.49 | DocScrutinizer | err, own as in "I'm the key responsible for the hw"? not really. If you however mean if I already binned my ~12 devices - no I didn't yet |
| 15:44.04 | rZr | cz l |
| 15:44.22 | DocScrutinizer | ?z?¿ |
| 15:51.20 | admiral0 | lol 12 |
| 15:51.39 | admiral0 | i have mine on a shelf. |
| 15:51.50 | rZr | .. ERR |
| 15:51.52 | admiral0 | it's a collection item :P |
| 15:52.16 | rZr | i put my devive in my pocket w/out locking it |
| 15:52.29 | rZr | later ... |
| 16:02.42 | djszapi | rZr: what is your t-shirt size ? |
| 16:13.19 | *** join/#harmattan SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 16:16.40 | *** join/#harmattan kralor (~kralor@hackincorp.net) |
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| 17:01.14 | *** join/#harmattan Bull-bull (~ircchatte@60.20.33.33) |
| 17:04.11 | Bull-bull | 可以说中文么？ |
| 17:08.05 | *** join/#harmattan Bull-bull (~ircchatte@60.20.33.33) |
| 17:09.12 | rZr | djszapi: hi xl is ok |
| 17:09.40 | rZr | djszapi: why a such question? is it summer already ? |
| 17:10.57 | rZr | . |
| 17:11.05 | rZr | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:11.26 | rZr | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:12.35 | rZr | again |
| 17:12.37 | rZr | lol |
| 17:13.11 | itsnotabigtruck | rzr: any reason you sometimes switch between rZr and RzR? :p |
| 17:13.55 | rZr | Z = away |
| 17:14.00 | itsnotabigtruck | also, i really need to switch from firefox to chrome, chrome has a half-decent adblocker now and firefox constantly locks up |
| 17:14.06 | itsnotabigtruck | probably because of ab+ |
| 17:17.23 | itsnotabigtruck | rzr: have you used 'timed' before |
| 17:17.31 | itsnotabigtruck | (process scheduler) |
| 17:18.05 | itsnotabigtruck | if so, any idea what aegis credentials are needed to schedule something |
| 17:18.10 | itsnotabigtruck | this documentation is pretty outdated and opaque |
| 17:21.14 | Iktwo | Hi, I'm having trouble with a dbus call, I was wondering if there's something or someway to list all interfaces and methods, if I call a method on terminal it works and if I do it in my app it doesn't http://pastebin.com/9H77vuyD any advice? |
| 17:24.28 | rZr | p |
| 17:30.47 | Iktwo | is it ok if I use system("dbus-send ..") to call it? |
| 17:32.55 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo (~Timur@catv-89-134-153-62.catv.broadband.hu) |
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| 17:41.33 | djszapi | rZr: I can give you a t-shirt |
| 17:41.35 | djszapi | but it is xxl |
| 17:41.41 | djszapi | where are you ? |
| 17:42.02 | Venemo | hey |
| 17:43.57 | rZr | djszapi: at the main entrace |
| 17:44.09 | rZr | djszapi: waiting for a friend |
| 17:44.39 | rZr | djszapi: xxl could make the job , the drier will shrimk it |
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| 17:45.02 | rZr | djszapi: will be here tomorow |
| 17:46.04 | rZr | djszapi: where r u ? |
| 17:46.42 | Venemo | what T-Shirt are you talkin about? |
| 17:47.21 | rZr | the teeshirt that block the cold |
| 17:47.39 | djszapi | rZr: can we meet smewhere ? |
| 17:47.47 | djszapi | yes,I will be here tomorrow, you too ? |
| 17:47.49 | rZr | djszapi: tell me |
| 17:47.58 | djszapi | Venemo: we are at FOSDEM |
| 17:48.03 | djszapi | rZr: I am now in the K building |
| 17:48.04 | rZr | djszapi: tomorow i am free all day |
| 17:48.05 | djszapi | at the KDE stand. |
| 17:48.07 | djszapi | cool |
| 17:48.23 | Venemo | djszapi, ok, I thought so, but what what T-shirt is it? :P |
| 17:48.24 | rZr | djszapi: ok fosdem is about to close soon |
| 17:48.45 | rZr | there is a party @ hackspace.be |
| 17:49.00 | rZr | going there ? |
| 17:49.34 | rZr | else i rest in st gillis |
| 17:53.33 | gabriel9 | hear me hear me |
| 17:53.41 | gabriel9 | i finsihed uber piano app :D |
| 17:54.06 | gabriel9 | just to get my creadit card and it will be able on ovi |
| 17:54.19 | gabriel9 | if someone wish to try call me |
| 17:54.21 | gabriel9 | :) |
| 17:56.56 | rZr | ppp |
| 18:03.36 | DocScrutinizer | 32602 ? Rsl 5:29 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --start --log-target=syslog PFFFFF DIE!!!!11!!! if somebody runs into poettering at FOSDEM, could you maybe spank him |
| 18:04.28 | DocScrutinizer | and don't forget to take and post a video of it, when you do so |
| 18:05.07 | gabriel9 | i notice this, when i click on one button and it play sound while my finger is still on the button i can't click and play some other tone |
| 18:05.44 | gabriel9 | DocScrutinizer: why violence? :) |
| 18:05.53 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, lol |
| 18:06.40 | DocScrutinizer | well, friggin phonon(?) in FF10 started that PA shit on my box that othjerwise is usually free of poettering apps, result: 100% system on one of my cores |
| 18:07.34 | DocScrutinizer | had to kill 32602 to get back my cores |
| 18:08.20 | DocScrutinizer | ~poettering |
| 18:08.21 | infobot | 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'' |
| 18:08.49 | DocScrutinizer | here FF10 via PA was poettering my CPU |
| 18:09.25 | rZr | djszapi: ill catch u tomorow |
| 18:10.06 | DocScrutinizer | PA always starts to act poettering in no time on all my boxen |
| 18:10.48 | DocScrutinizer | that's why U shall spank Poettering for forcefeeding poettering software down the throat of linux community |
| 18:10.48 | ZogG_laptop | Venemo: sup |
| 18:11.04 | gabriel9 | hm i don't get it. Well if they break your comp you shuold kill them :) |
| 18:11.27 | gabriel9 | see ya |
| 18:18.09 | PaulePanter | DocScrutinizer: Could you contact the PA list with the debug information? |
| 18:18.21 | DocScrutinizer | no way |
| 18:18.37 | PaulePanter | In my experience they are quite helpful and most of the time the fault lies at the audio drivers. |
| 18:18.44 | DocScrutinizer | I don't deal with PA, except killing and/or de-installing it |
| 18:19.42 | PaulePanter | Could you send it to me privately? So I can forward it and you do not “waste” a lot of time? |
| 18:19.55 | DocScrutinizer | ALSA setup worked like a charm on my devices, after I finally tweaked it to my needs. Then came mandatory PA and audio was worse than ever before |
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| 18:20.55 | PaulePanter | I am no professional but PA demands sometimes different things from the audio hardware. |
| 18:21.05 | PaulePanter | Which you normally cannot configure. |
| 18:24.28 | DocScrutinizer | I had a box with 2 audiocards. I used the one of them for general system notifications and ringtone, while the other one got used exclusively for for SIP headset (minus the ringtone of course). Worked like a charm on ALSA, no way to ever get that working under PA |
| 18:25.26 | PaulePanter | I heard in recent versions this should work like a charm. |
| 18:26.40 | PaulePanter | Anyway, next time you experience high CPU load issues it would be great if you could follow <http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/HowToDebugCPULoadBugs>. |
| 18:26.58 | DocScrutinizer | actually all the "improvements" attributed to PA over ALSA are a lie, and it never got even on par to what I can do with ALSA, yet all the distros got forced to use it by default now and more often than not you can't even deselect it on installation as the ALSA config got messed up to meet PA's needs and doesn't work without it anymore, without *heavy* tweaks to it |
| 18:27.04 | PaulePanter | Just ping me and I will see what I can do to get this fixed upstream. |
| 18:27.30 | DocScrutinizer | I'm *not going* to "debug PA issues" |
| 18:27.42 | Venemo | lol |
| 18:27.49 | Venemo | why is it that PA just works for me? |
| 18:28.05 | DocScrutinizer | I'm just doing an occasional "killall PA" and /spank lennart |
| 18:28.21 | Venemo | I've never had any problems with PA |
| 18:28.47 | PaulePanter | DocScrutinizer: I understand your problem. If you know ALSA you can do everything you want to. But most users (myself included) do not know ALSA that well and PA seems to help most of them. |
| 18:28.55 | DocScrutinizer | you probably never did *anything* more evolved with your audio anyway, Venemo |
| 18:29.17 | DocScrutinizer | PaulePanter: yeah, see Venemo |
| 18:29.34 | Venemo | I played music with my audio |
| 18:29.36 | Venemo | what else? |
| 18:29.37 | PaulePanter | PA is for “normal” users. And you are right that there should be an easy way to disable PA. |
| 18:29.50 | DocScrutinizer | OMG!!!! he played MUSIC with his audio |
| 18:29.52 | PaulePanter | … for users not wanting to use it. |
| 18:29.55 | DocScrutinizer | ;-P |
| 18:30.24 | PaulePanter | DocScrutinizer: If you change your mind, just ping me. |
| 18:30.40 | PaulePanter | But it would be sad, if there would be something less to complain about. ;-) |
| 18:30.41 | DocScrutinizer | sure thing, thanks. Won't happen though |
| 18:31.38 | PaulePanter | DocScrutinizer: One last thing. Could you tell me the distribution and PA version though? |
| 18:32.52 | DocScrutinizer | Mr Poettering more than once has exlained he gives no flying F... about Linux' general UNIX compatibility, and not even about backward compatibility of his "solutions" to problems he doesn't relally understand and sometimes just made up |
| 18:33.38 | Venemo | I will not engage in an argument about which I'm not qualified. |
| 18:34.00 | DocScrutinizer | PaulePanter: the distro is so jeavily admisnistrated that it barely is comaparable to anything you could download anywhere. And I got nfc how to get evrsion string of PA |
| 18:34.43 | PaulePanter | `pulseaudio --version` |
| 18:34.51 | PaulePanter | Or using your package management system. |
| 18:35.06 | DocScrutinizer | jr@halley:/usr/share/alsa/pcm> pulseaudio --version |
| 18:35.07 | DocScrutinizer | pulseaudio 0.9.21 |
| 18:35.19 | PaulePanter | Great. Thank you! |
| 18:35.29 | DocScrutinizer | cwd is a funny coincidence :-D |
| 18:36.48 | DocScrutinizer | just happend that I actively support an alternative (based on a concept I developed) to PA on some mobile distro |
| 18:37.12 | PaulePanter | Just as a note, this version is pretty old. It was tagged Mon Nov 23 05:18:15 2009 +0100. |
| 18:37.25 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, why don't you just uninstall PA from your computer and be done with it? |
| 18:37.29 | PaulePanter | Version 1.1 is already released. |
| 18:37.33 | DocScrutinizer | sure, do you think I *UPDATE* PA?? ;-P |
| 18:38.00 | PaulePanter | I hope so, if you complain about it. ;-) |
| 18:38.11 | DocScrutinizer | I'm embarrassed it's still startable on this box at all ;-) |
| 18:38.27 | PaulePanter | Otherwise you would forbid software to make progress. |
| 18:38.43 | PaulePanter | … and to fix things you complain about. |
| 18:39.10 | PaulePanter | DocScrutinizer: What alternative are you talking about? I just heard of Roaraudio. |
| 18:39.22 | PaulePanter | Or something like that. |
| 18:39.23 | Venemo | brb, ttyl |
| 18:39.27 | DocScrutinizer | only thing I complained about are a) that it got installed at all, and b) that friggin FF10 staerted it |
| 18:40.03 | PaulePanter | Well, that is technically not PA’s fault but your distributions. :P |
| 18:40.28 | DocScrutinizer | PA's only immutable fault is its mere existance |
| 18:40.55 | PaulePanter | Immutable indeed. :/ |
| 18:41.14 | DocScrutinizer | and of course the fact redhat/lennart forcefeeded it into each and every distro |
| 18:41.57 | PaulePanter | Probably I am beating a dead dog, but Lennart is not involved anymore with PA and currently Colin, Arun and others are acitvely developing it. |
| 18:42.01 | DocScrutinizer | esp at a time where it evidently was inferior to what we already had for audio at that time |
| 18:42.14 | PaulePanter | and responding to wishes and so on. |
| 18:42.51 | Venemo | 'yum remove pulseaudio' |
| 18:42.54 | Venemo | and be done with it |
| 18:42.59 | PaulePanter | I am not sure, but nowadays it is pretty mature and well suited for mobile devices if I remember correctly. |
| 18:43.14 | DocScrutinizer | wish: pretty ÜLEASE finally fix your friggin alsa comatibility plugin, so it supports FUL alsa API in a semi decent way |
| 18:43.59 | PaulePanter | If I remember it devices even consume less power with it. |
| 18:44.09 | DocScrutinizer | sure, PA alsmost works nowadays - for apps that use it natively |
| 18:44.21 | PaulePanter | Have you tried the latest plugin? |
| 18:44.43 | DocScrutinizer | not so for apps that still use proper ALSA snd_pcm_XXX() calls |
| 18:45.31 | DocScrutinizer | quite in line with Lennart's notion about backward compatibilty |
| 18:46.38 | PaulePanter | DocScrutinizer: Can I quote your latest concerns on the PA list? |
| 18:47.27 | DocScrutinizer | you can quote whatever you like, as long as you remove my name from the quote - I don't like to get pinged with further requests to help debug PA |
| 18:47.43 | PaulePanter | Understood. ;-) Thanks. |
| 18:47.58 | PaulePanter | Is your PA alternative public anywhere? |
| 18:49.30 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 18:49.38 | PaulePanter | Too bad. |
| 18:50.02 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not interested in saving a world of PA fanboys |
| 18:50.36 | DocScrutinizer | not anymore, after all the flames "WTF finally get native PA support into your app, ALSA doesn't work anymore!" |
| 18:50.38 | PaulePanter | I hate PA. Will you save me. |
| 18:51.19 | DocScrutinizer | eventually you'll see the results in SHR |
| 18:51.33 | DocScrutinizer | or not, I'm not implementing it |
| 18:51.48 | DocScrutinizer | I just "mentor" |
| 18:51.51 | PaulePanter | Nice. I just heard SHR in OpenEmbedded from Martin Jansa. |
| 18:52.04 | DocScrutinizer | maybe he mentioned ACI |
| 18:52.24 | DocScrutinizer | JaMa should know a bit about it anyway |
| 18:56.04 | DocScrutinizer | basically it's an ultralean plugin extension to ALSA, allowing flexible audio routing by fully exploiting what ALSA already can do |
| 18:56.36 | DocScrutinizer | the rest is just concept on how to set up ALSA "correctly" |
| 18:57.09 | PaulePanter | Interesting. |
| 18:57.11 | PaulePanter | I found |
| 18:57.12 | PaulePanter | http://irclog.netripper.com/openmoko-cdevel/2011/6/8/ |
| 18:57.20 | DocScrutinizer | e.g ALSA can do per-app volume since ... ever |
| 18:57.26 | PaulePanter | http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/ALSA/ACI/ACI_spec/gsm_earpiece__readme |
| 18:57.35 | DocScrutinizer | called plugin siftvol |
| 18:57.39 | PaulePanter | http://ibot.rikers.org/#openmoko-cdevel/20110726.html.gz |
| 18:57.53 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 18:58.04 | DocScrutinizer | softvol even |
| 19:02.07 | DocScrutinizer | PaulePanter: acihooklib is the POC fopr that "ultralean ALSA plugin" I mentioned above |
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| 19:03.26 | PaulePanter | DocScrutinizer: Finished reading the log it is sad that Jaroslav did not discuss that reasonably. |
| 19:04.19 | PaulePanter | I wish you the the best success with ACI and not knowing that much about such things I hope the best solution will win and get adopted despite the politics. |
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| 19:26.08 | itsnotabigtruck | yeesh, 15 years later audio on linux *still* isn't sorted out :p |
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| 20:26.47 | itsnotabigtruck | https://gist.github.com/c6ce6a1154fbd70829d4 wow, this is one complicated dbus method |
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| 20:48.56 | piggz | hi harmattan devs....quick question...how can i find out the default theme background color in a qml-components app? appWindow.color returns black, but the color is a light grey |
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| 21:54.23 | admiral0 | appWindow.color will return foreground color afaik |
| 21:55.11 | admiral0 | damaltor: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1160606&postcount=74 |
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| 22:58.51 | ZogG_laptop | i feel that pr1.2 would come this week =) |
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| 23:22.59 | admiral0 | ZogG_laptop: how come this feeling? |
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| 23:44.25 | artemma | moved to Helsinki tonight. Is a capital guy now :D |
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| 23:55.32 | djszapiN9 | rzr pinh |
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