| 00:00.26 | tehdely | that is a very pretty warning! |
| 00:00.33 | DocScrutinizer | this aegis stuff still spoils your day even while on openmode :-S |
| 00:00.42 | tehdely | i believe you |
| 00:01.08 | tehdely | it's alright |
| 00:01.11 | tehdely | the phone is so damn pretty i |
| 00:01.18 | tehdely | 'm willing to overlook a few inconveniences ;) |
| 00:03.05 | DocScrutinizer | after loading kernel to ram, you might have to power up the device again. do NOT unplug as it will shutdown and kernel in ram will evaporate |
| 00:03.23 | tehdely | oh i unmounted, unplugged, and booted into pr1.2 |
| 00:03.31 | tehdely | i only needed to load the kernel in RAM for long enough to flip that bit |
| 00:03.49 | DocScrutinizer | aaah I see |
| 00:04.05 | tehdely | it was nice seeing it mount though. it actually mounted with a pretty icon on OS X |
| 00:04.11 | tehdely | i should've taken a screenshot |
| 00:04.15 | tehdely | it looked like an N9 ;) |
| 00:04.31 | djszapi | tehdely: oh, you also a Mac user ? |
| 00:04.36 | tehdely | yep |
| 00:04.54 | DocScrutinizer | yep what? |
| 00:04.58 | djszapi | nifty :) |
| 00:05.18 | tehdely | DocScrutinizer: "yep" to djszapi |
| 00:05.22 | tehdely | you got him on ignore or something? :> |
| 00:05.27 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 00:05.39 | *** join/#harmattan longthen (~Charles@58.246.38.91) |
| 00:05.39 | tehdely | ha |
| 00:08.06 | tehdely | man i need some pho |
| 00:08.49 | djszapi | tehdely: do you mind giving some help with qt5 patch testing on future on Mac ? |
| 00:08.56 | ieatlint | mmm, pho |
| 00:09.01 | tehdely | depends what kind of help |
| 00:09.05 | itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: did you manage to do it? |
| 00:09.14 | djszapi | tehdely: as said, testing. |
| 00:09.16 | tehdely | itsnotabigtruck: yes, now the "can we save a password across reboots" test |
| 00:09.21 | itsnotabigtruck | btw flasher -R says it's supposed to reboot but IMX it always shuts off |
| 00:09.23 | djszapi | build + unit test run. |
| 00:09.25 | tehdely | djszapi: perhaps. mike@teambarry.org <- me |
| 00:09.31 | tehdely | i run lion |
| 00:09.35 | tehdely | if you need someone building on lion, i'm your man |
| 00:09.42 | djszapi | :) |
| 00:09.44 | itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: you just put your unadulterated email address on the net, so you'll probably be getting moar spams now |
| 00:09.50 | tehdely | oh man |
| 00:09.53 | tehdely | that email address is already ruined |
| 00:09.56 | itsnotabigtruck | lol |
| 00:09.56 | DocScrutinizer | itsnotabigtruck: nope, it just reboots to act-dead mode |
| 00:09.58 | tehdely | i had an account on the MtGox bitcoin exchange |
| 00:10.05 | tehdely | and their whole accounts db was stolen |
| 00:10.09 | itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer: hrm, ok |
| 00:10.10 | djszapi | -R does reboot. |
| 00:10.16 | tehdely | i get 419s like you wouldn't believe |
| 00:10.38 | tehdely | I guess someone figured Bitcoin users for a bunch of gullible pawns who would easily fall prey to a get-rich-quick scheme why I never... |
| 00:10.47 | djszapi | tehdely: feel free to any working one to me in private. |
| 00:10.52 | djszapi | send* |
| 00:11.00 | *** join/#harmattan araujo (~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo) |
| 00:11.04 | tehdely | that's a perfectly good email, use that one |
| 00:11.32 | tehdely | ok let's reboot and see if the phone can log into facebook |
| 00:12.28 | djszapi | tehdely: you have just said "it is ruined" |
| 00:12.34 | djszapi | is it for something else then ? |
| 00:12.40 | tehdely | no i just mean spammers have it |
| 00:12.44 | tehdely | but zimbra does a good job of filtering it out |
| 00:12.48 | tehdely | i use that email plenty |
| 00:14.49 | tehdely | i appear to be logged into facebook! yay! |
| 00:14.57 | tehdely | itsnotabigtruck: ça marche! |
| 00:14.57 | DocScrutinizer | \o/ |
| 00:16.32 | DocScrutinizer | so I already start to wonder if it needs to be any kernel that you load to RAM and execute. Or if NOLO will flip that bit on trying to load some crap from /dev/urandom already |
| 00:16.51 | tehdely | what's the default pass for 'user' on newly-installed sshd |
| 00:16.54 | tehdely | or do i have to set one using passwd first |
| 00:17.03 | DocScrutinizer | rootme |
| 00:17.09 | djszapi | nothing |
| 00:17.13 | djszapi | just use developer |
| 00:17.24 | DocScrutinizer | ooh user. none set |
| 00:17.33 | tehdely | what is the use of the developer vs. user account |
| 00:17.35 | djszapi | after enabling the developer mode. |
| 00:17.36 | tehdely | which one should i be sshing into |
| 00:17.42 | djszapi | developer |
| 00:17.45 | DocScrutinizer | so yeah, you have to set one using passwd user in rootsh |
| 00:17.56 | tehdely | i'd rather set no pass and just use keys |
| 00:18.05 | tehdely | i wonder if the passwd binary on here supports the '-u' flag for unlock |
| 00:18.08 | tehdely | we'll find out! |
| 00:18.33 | DocScrutinizer | for some strange reason sshd refuses to allow login with keys on an account that has no password |
| 00:18.50 | tehdely | even after running 'passwd -u'? |
| 00:18.54 | tehdely | that's usually all that needs to be done |
| 00:18.56 | tehdely | so let's see if that worked |
| 00:19.46 | tehdely | hmm, looks like i need to create developer's home dir |
| 00:19.52 | tehdely | what is the use of the developer account vs user account |
| 00:19.55 | tehdely | why would i want to use one vs. the other |
| 00:20.00 | tehdely | 'user' is the one that my personal stuff runs as, yes? |
| 00:20.18 | DocScrutinizer | developer account is for downlink from SDK on PC afaik |
| 00:20.25 | djszapi | you do not need to create that |
| 00:20.29 | djszapi | just enable the developer mode. |
| 00:20.30 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 00:20.38 | djszapi | yes |
| 00:21.03 | *** join/#harmattan benares_98 (~user@208.70.18.120) |
| 00:21.09 | djszapi | but as a rule of thumb, I would suggest using the developer account over ssh. |
| 00:21.38 | tehdely | and what is the advantage thereof |
| 00:22.23 | djszapi | plus creds |
| 00:22.27 | djszapi | less trouble. |
| 00:22.50 | djszapi | working "by default" without assign password and so forth. |
| 00:22.56 | djszapi | assigning* |
| 00:22.59 | tehdely | ok confirm i can get in without setting a pass |
| 00:23.10 | tehdely | just have to 'passwd -u' |
| 00:23.11 | djszapi | never tried |
| 00:23.13 | tehdely | THIS IS UNIX I KNOW THIS |
| 00:23.14 | tehdely | ;) |
| 00:23.18 | djszapi | I normally set up my preferred password. |
| 00:23.35 | djszapi | for developer, that is. |
| 00:23.42 | tehdely | developer doesn't seem to have a home dir |
| 00:23.57 | djszapi | it does have. |
| 00:24.16 | tehdely | nope, no /home/developer on here |
| 00:24.36 | djszapi | sounds like a screwed up system |
| 00:24.44 | djszapi | if the developer mode is on, it should be there. |
| 00:24.57 | tehdely | let's install some more of the devmode packages |
| 00:25.01 | tehdely | maybe one of htem creates it |
| 00:25.03 | DocScrutinizer | it's just for SDK to log in |
| 00:25.08 | djszapi | so what is in the /home folder then ? |
| 00:25.12 | tehdely | just /home/user |
| 00:25.12 | djszapi | user and lostnfound only ? |
| 00:25.14 | tehdely | yep |
| 00:25.20 | tehdely | may also ahve to do with the emmc i used to flash |
| 00:25.21 | tehdely | duno |
| 00:25.25 | djszapi | and you can log in as developer ? |
| 00:25.28 | tehdely | no i can't |
| 00:25.33 | tehdely | and i can't create /home/developer and chown it developer either |
| 00:25.37 | djszapi | you have the developer mode enabled ? |
| 00:25.42 | tehdely | yes, i'm sshed in righ tnow |
| 00:25.43 | djszapi | and it installed the stuff fine, right ? |
| 00:25.45 | tehdely | yep |
| 00:25.58 | DocScrutinizer | forget about developer account |
| 00:26.08 | djszapi | disable developer mode, reboot, enable again |
| 00:26.16 | tehdely | also, how do i get opensh installed |
| 00:26.27 | tehdely | so far i don't seem to be benefiting from open mode at all.. what has this actually enabled me to do |
| 00:26.38 | djszapi | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/N9/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/opensh/ |
| 00:28.34 | tehdely | where do i get the kernel in question |
| 00:28.47 | tehdely | oh, one dir up |
| 00:28.55 | tehdely | is it ok to boot with a kernel intended for pr1.1 |
| 00:29.56 | djszapi | well, that should be nice to get updated |
| 00:30.08 | djszapi | but there was no proper effort yet apparently. |
| 00:30.10 | djszapi | at least it is not shared then in there. |
| 00:30.19 | itsnotabigtruck | so tehdely: any issues? |
| 00:30.22 | itsnotabigtruck | reads sb |
| 00:30.40 | tehdely | i have no /home/developer |
| 00:30.41 | tehdely | that seems to be it so far |
| 00:30.52 | tehdely | i'mma try to get opensh on here |
| 00:30.53 | tehdely | this should be fun |
| 00:31.07 | itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: don't boot with a pr1.1 kernel |
| 00:31.12 | itsnotabigtruck | unless you downgrade the kernel modules too |
| 00:31.14 | tehdely | oh, don't? |
| 00:31.17 | itsnotabigtruck | but warning: that will screw up the camera |
| 00:31.19 | itsnotabigtruck | don't do it |
| 00:31.20 | tehdely | dang |
| 00:31.33 | tehdely | even just to get into sdk mode? |
| 00:31.36 | itsnotabigtruck | don't bother changing the kernel |
| 00:31.41 | itsnotabigtruck | a) turn on developer mode |
| 00:31.44 | itsnotabigtruck | b) download doc's opensh |
| 00:31.53 | itsnotabigtruck | c) AEGIS_FIXED_ORIGIN=com.nokia.maemo dpkg -i opensh.deb |
| 00:31.55 | itsnotabigtruck | as root |
| 00:31.57 | tehdely | that is all |
| 00:32.07 | tehdely | i don't need to be booted into the hacked kernel in order for that to work? |
| 00:32.09 | itsnotabigtruck | then opensh -c 'accli -I' and be in awe of all the caps |
| 00:32.22 | itsnotabigtruck | nope, you don't |
| 00:32.29 | djszapi | C) should not work at all |
| 00:32.39 | djszapi | if that works, that is just a bug |
| 00:32.42 | itsnotabigtruck | last time i checked, dpkg knows whether you're in open mode |
| 00:32.46 | tehdely | seems to have worked |
| 00:32.55 | djszapi | right, time to report it... |
| 00:32.56 | tehdely | oh my |
| 00:32.56 | itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: well, if it doesn't work it gets ignored |
| 00:32.59 | tehdely | i sure do seem to have a lot of privileges |
| 00:33.14 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: somehow i doubt that was a bug given that logic for it was WRITTEN RIGHT IN |
| 00:33.19 | tehdely | ahhh, this is MUCH BETTER |
| 00:33.22 | tehdely | mwahahahaha |
| 00:33.39 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: I am quite amazed how you know better how we designed aegis things. |
| 00:33.50 | djszapi | this is not the first try, and I am getting tired of you, quite frankly. |
| 00:33.54 | djszapi | time* |
| 00:34.51 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: i'm quite amazed at how often you contradict how it actually works, having worked on it... |
| 00:35.02 | tehdely | cool i can now ssh in key-based as develoepr or user |
| 00:35.12 | tehdely | yay, i own my phone |
| 00:35.22 | tehdely | i know you guys are busy bickering but i want to thank you both |
| 00:35.23 | tehdely | :) |
| 00:35.27 | itsnotabigtruck | heh |
| 00:35.29 | tehdely | and DocScrutinizer51 |
| 00:35.44 | djszapi | tehdely: this method hopefully is not going to work in the future though. |
| 00:35.54 | tehdely | well we'll just have to resort to a new one when that happens |
| 00:35.57 | djszapi | since it is a bug, it can be done at the momment. |
| 00:35.59 | itsnotabigtruck | :D |
| 00:36.31 | tehdely | there is still the problem, btw, that no appropriate libc6-dbg exists in the repos |
| 00:36.34 | tehdely | at least not one that matches the running kernel version |
| 00:36.41 | tehdely | so i can't install bunch of the devtools pkgs |
| 00:37.05 | tehdely | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:37.28 | djszapi | jonni ping |
| 00:40.08 | djszapi | tehdely: you are right, I should not bicker, just ignore.. |
| 00:40.40 | djszapi | if someone wanna know the things better than the authors, I cannot do too much. :/ |
| 00:42.08 | tehdely | i wonder if Track & Protect works in Open Mode |
| 00:42.10 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: take one look at the source of dpkg and you'll see what i mean |
| 00:42.11 | tehdely | i was thinking of signing up |
| 00:42.12 | djszapi | jonni please let met know, if you are back. |
| 00:42.18 | djszapi | when* |
| 00:42.31 | itsnotabigtruck | i'm not claiming i know more about aegis than you, i am claiming that maybe you need to double check on this one |
| 00:42.33 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: why do you hijack ? |
| 00:42.53 | djszapi | of course the dpkg source code is first of all not available anymore |
| 00:43.08 | djszapi | so this is the entry point where you are already wrong |
| 00:43.14 | djszapi | secondly, I mentioned the damn design |
| 00:43.18 | tehdely | that would be a GPL violation |
| 00:43.33 | djszapi | that me and my colleague decided together... |
| 00:43.53 | djszapi | but surely, you know better than we, of course /sighs/. |
| 00:43.59 | djszapi | tehdely: why ? |
| 00:44.00 | itsnotabigtruck | then i guess someone else changed the design |
| 00:44.13 | djszapi | tehdely: the dpkg real code is still gpl |
| 00:44.17 | tehdely | oh, this is just your wrapper |
| 00:44.18 | djszapi | tehdely: the wrapper itself is not |
| 00:44.19 | tehdely | gotcha |
| 00:44.31 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: yes, sure ... |
| 00:44.36 | djszapi | be smart man, continue :) |
| 00:44.52 | admiral0 | dpkg wrapper? |
| 00:44.56 | admiral0 | dafuq? |
| 00:45.38 | djszapi | anyway, I will fix this hole tomorrow |
| 00:45.43 | djszapi | and send the patch for review. |
| 00:46.14 | tehdely | interesting |
| 00:46.21 | tehdely | aegis rejects packages installed from opensh |
| 00:46.23 | admiral0 | djszapi: you know it's gonna make users angrier |
| 00:46.31 | djszapi | admiral0: opposite |
| 00:46.35 | djszapi | it is gonna make users happy |
| 00:46.56 | admiral0 | eventually i'm gonna ask my friends in bin-reverse to take a look at aegis |
| 00:47.19 | admiral0 | our security team at university is pretty good :) |
| 00:47.42 | djszapi | admiral0: they are not better than itsnotabigtruck :) |
| 00:47.55 | admiral0 | we didn't even start looking |
| 00:48.01 | admiral0 | we will |
| 00:48.09 | djszapi | he wanna know everything better, no matter if even better than the authors, or official sites :) |
| 00:48.18 | admiral0 | :D |
| 00:48.21 | djszapi | admiral0: which university is this ? |
| 00:48.31 | djszapi | if I may ask. |
| 00:49.08 | admiral0 | why are you interested? |
| 00:49.14 | admiral0 | legal things |
| 00:49.16 | admiral0 | ? |
| 00:49.36 | djszapi | because I know a good university which made quite many analyzes for google. |
| 00:49.43 | admiral0 | ah |
| 00:49.45 | djszapi | about security, and they won a lot of money out of it. |
| 00:49.57 | admiral0 | we just do stuff for fun |
| 00:50.07 | admiral0 | ictf, defcon, ructfe |
| 00:50.46 | admiral0 | nothing to do with google |
| 00:51.24 | pa | sorry to bug you guys, again, no one ever used syncevolution? i managed to configure it, with two peers (two gmail_contacts account). i set the first as refresh from server, the second as one way from server |
| 00:51.51 | pa | the problem is that when i sync the second, only the contacts with ID> maxid from the first account are actually added (i think) |
| 00:53.33 | pa | now actually it didnt sync at all in the second peer |
| 01:06.21 | *** join/#harmattan DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 01:13.45 | tehdely | does anyone know the meaning of this: Mar 4 17:13:11 (2012) cellular: csd[655]: com.nokia.csd.simatk: simatk_report_event_notification:460 Building and sending ATK_REPORT_EVENT_NTF -message |
| 01:13.48 | tehdely | it shows up in syslog quite a bit |
| 01:14.15 | djszapi | probably no harm. |
| 01:14.28 | tehdely | on a lark, i'm gonna try installing ad-hac via the AppsForMeego client |
| 01:14.31 | tehdely | will be neat if it works |
| 01:15.19 | tehdely | worked! |
| 01:16.51 | tehdely | i gotta say |
| 01:16.57 | tehdely | i know some things are frustrating with this phone |
| 01:17.02 | tehdely | but as a long-time Nokia fanboy |
| 01:17.04 | tehdely | this is such a breath of fresh air |
| 01:17.08 | tehdely | that nothing can make me mad :> |
| 01:17.51 | djszapi | yay |
| 01:18.00 | djszapi | glad to hear that :) |
| 01:18.54 | tehdely | i wish some of the stuff that only made it into the Symbian maps suite were available but otherwise it's all good |
| 01:19.07 | tehdely | there's no Check In, separate Transport app, or ability to calculate time |
| 01:19.13 | tehdely | ~*~ alas ~*~ |
| 01:27.47 | *** join/#harmattan adlan (~adlan@115.85.128.54) |
| 01:39.33 | admiral0 | i assigned a pass to user |
| 01:39.40 | admiral0 | fuu |
| 01:43.14 | beford | reboot and tell us what happens |
| 01:43.15 | beford | xD |
| 01:46.53 | admiral0 | all ok |
| 02:02.16 | *** join/#harmattan jluisn (~quassel@187.114.210.110) |
| 02:12.47 | *** join/#harmattan risca (~risca@wnpgmb0903w-ds01-177-34.dynamic.mtsallstream.net) |
| 02:28.15 | Richlv | iptables v1.4.8: can't initialize iptables table `filter': Permission denied (you must be root) |
| 02:28.18 | Richlv | i am root :/ |
| 02:47.30 | virtuald | AEGIS_FIXED_ORIGIN override only allowed in OPEN MODE device |
| 02:47.35 | virtuald | hm |
| 02:48.52 | virtuald | richlv: develsh -c 'iptables -nL' |
| 02:52.33 | Richlv | virtuald, oh, interesting - thanks |
| 02:52.39 | Richlv | thought devel-su would be enough :) |
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| 03:35.00 | virtuald | richlv: no the device is all locked down, it's an abomination to free software |
| 03:42.07 | itsnotabigtruck | virtuald: accli -I |
| 03:42.11 | itsnotabigtruck | are you in open mode? |
| 03:42.17 | itsnotabigtruck | if not, that might be why :p |
| 03:42.38 | itsnotabigtruck | and Richlv: get used to using 'devel-su -s /bin/develsh' |
| 03:44.07 | virtuald | =P yeah i read the backlog after i tried that |
| 03:45.27 | virtuald | what stops working in open mode? sorry for asking all the faq's |
| 03:46.43 | itsnotabigtruck | virtuald: very little but you have to completely wipe the phone while you go into open mode, or lots of things will stop working |
| 03:48.24 | Richlv | itsnotabigtruck, heh, changing shell was on my mind already, thanks :) |
| 03:48.26 | virtuald | ok |
| 04:27.49 | slingr | do i need to backup before upgrading to PR1.2? |
| 04:40.07 | tehdely | opensh, you complete me |
| 04:44.29 | *** join/#harmattan Necrosporus (~Necrospor@unaffiliated/necrosporus) |
| 04:59.02 | djszapi | slingr: it does not hurt to make a backup. |
| 05:00.19 | djszapi | virtuald: not just open mode...about the AEGIS_FIXED_ORIGIN post |
| 05:00.25 | djszapi | it also works with R&D certificate. |
| 05:00.58 | djszapi | virtuald: and if you have an N9 with warranty, you theoritically lost the warranty with open mode (just a friendly reminder). |
| 05:15.56 | virtuald | haven't.put it in open mode yet and i may try to add an antenna to the fm transmitter amyway |
| 05:23.21 | tehdely | virtuald: i would _love_ to know if you pull that off |
| 05:23.33 | *** join/#harmattan jaywink (~jaywink@cs181137044.pp.htv.fi) |
| 05:25.34 | virtuald | tehdely: i don't even known if it's possible yet |
| 05:26.43 | jonni | tehdely: you should catch the right timing (most likely) with: sudo flasher -R;sleep 1.5;sudo flasher -l -b -k |
| 05:26.57 | tehdely | jonni: i pulled it off earlier |
| 05:27.01 | jonni | tehdely: roger |
| 05:27.05 | tehdely | yanked the usb cable and held the power button till it powered off |
| 05:27.17 | tehdely | and then had the flasher ready w/ kernel for when i plugged it abck in |
| 05:30.39 | virtuald | =) |
| 05:34.54 | *** join/#harmattan heymaster (~heymaster@2002:4e3d:d4bc:0:38c7:77aa:b80d:94c2) |
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| 06:00.15 | mece | ZogG_laptop, *tadaa* |
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| 06:08.48 | djszapi | Is it possible to reside a Column in a page right to the top of ToolBar with anchors ? I cannot seem to be able to manage that. |
| 06:10.50 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo_N950 (~Venemo@fedora/Venemo) |
| 06:13.48 | djszapi | virtuald: I have not said you put it into open mode ... not sure about "fm transmitter anyway" post. |
| 06:14.09 | Venemo_N950 | fm transmitter? |
| 06:15.01 | Venemo_N950 | oh, good morning djszapi :) |
| 06:30.34 | djszapi | Venemo_N950: morn |
| 06:31.25 | *** join/#harmattan xarcass (~igorsazon@94.79.28.10) |
| 06:49.05 | gabriel9 | morning |
| 06:49.32 | gabriel9 | did anyone read this: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/demand-for-kde-tablet-phenomenal/ |
| 06:49.45 | gabriel9 | i did not belive it will be this good |
| 06:54.48 | ZogG_laptop | mece: sup |
| 06:55.14 | mece | I'm on irc :) |
| 06:55.38 | ZogG_laptop | yeah i see it |
| 06:55.45 | ZogG_laptop | i'll query you |
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| 07:59.03 | djszapiN9 | Venemo_N950, ping |
| 07:59.30 | djszapiN9 | why is it immediately red if i query someone ? |
| 07:59.46 | gabriel9|work | what is red? |
| 08:00.11 | djszapiN9 | gabriel9|work, my pants :) |
| 08:00.25 | gabriel9|work | dude, why red pants :D |
| 08:00.48 | djszapiN9 | the title of the query dialog (aka the other buddy) |
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| 08:09.32 | djszapiN9 | right, so aegis fixed origin only works in open mode, and the rescue hackery put the device into that |
| 08:10.05 | djszapiN9 | so it seems to work as i expected, luckily then. The context was vague to me. |
| 08:10.58 | djszapiN9 | tehdely, ^ |
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| 08:15.26 | Venemo | djszapiN9, is it? |
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| 08:15.56 | djszapiN9 | Venemo, indeed |
| 08:16.30 | djszapiN9 | Venemo, plus it would be nice if i can turn the notification off. |
| 08:16.56 | djszapiN9 | plus the notifications could contain more information |
| 08:17.07 | Venemo | you can turn notifications off in settings |
| 08:17.19 | Venemo | what more info would you like? |
| 08:17.33 | Venemo | please type your suggestions into #irc-chatter, I must leave now but I'll read them later |
| 08:17.47 | djszapiN9 | which channel/query obviously |
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| 08:25.40 | rigo | can anybody tell me how to uninstall the facebook thing on the N9? The phone doesn't let me, which is weird |
| 08:27.19 | djszapiN9 | rigo, what does it say in cli ? |
| 08:28.28 | djszapiN9 | Venemo, also, whois would be nice to have as a supported command |
| 08:28.39 | rigo | Can't delete |
| 08:28.50 | Venemo | djszapiN9, okay :) |
| 08:28.50 | rigo | Can't uninstall Facebook |
| 08:28.59 | Venemo | rigo, just don't use it. |
| 08:29.02 | djszapiN9 | paste the full cli output pls. |
| 08:29.50 | djszapiN9 | Venemo, well it is still weird you cannot nuke it. |
| 08:29.58 | rigo | djszapiN9, this is in the application manager and the application manager doesn't show more output. What should I try to get more output? |
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| 08:30.23 | djszapiN9 | rigo, cli |
| 08:30.28 | djszapiN9 | in developer mode |
| 08:32.35 | djszapiN9 | unless someone knows the exact reason by off hand, we need to get more information :) |
| 08:34.50 | rigo | no cli here, apt-cache search "cli" gives man things but nothing immediately tangible |
| 08:35.49 | Venemo | cli = command line interface |
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| 08:39.30 | spenap | just wondering: if you don't mind having it installed, maybe you can simply remove the .desktop file to have it hidden from the application grid? |
| 08:39.37 | spenap | rigo: ^ |
| 08:39.45 | spenap | (not sure if aegis would mind) |
| 08:39.51 | jonni | you cannot uninstall since its depecy in mp-harmattan-001-pr, you would uninstall whole harmattan on it. But yes you can remove desktop file. |
| 08:40.19 | Venemo | jonni +1 |
| 08:40.30 | spenap | but I'm personally doing is storing all the apps I don't use in a folder |
| 08:40.41 | spenap | works quite well for hidding them from me |
| 08:40.48 | rigo | dam' it, should have asked the acronymfinder. Ok, did dpkg -r |
| 08:41.07 | rigo | rather apt-get remove facebook |
| 08:41.27 | denism | dpkg -r --force-depends |
| 08:41.52 | rigo | and now it wants to remove facebook mp-harmattan-001-pr which makes the entire system obsolete |
| 08:42.13 | rigo | so if I remove facebook, my phone is bricked |
| 08:42.15 | rigo | nice |
| 08:42.28 | jonni | dont remove, just hide |
| 08:42.48 | rigo | jonni, I know, this is not the goal. I don't want to fix a bug here |
| 08:43.22 | rigo | I want to understand, as Brussels might be interested in such behavior. This is really weird |
| 08:44.10 | rigo | so I think I understood now that the facebook application is hardwired into the basic binaries when the phone is flashed |
| 08:44.16 | jonni | its just a core app that you cannot remove, nothing weird in it. |
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| 08:45.14 | rigo | I know, but see, MS media player and IE also were just core apps that you cannot remove and yet we now have more choice |
| 08:45.37 | rigo | but just consider my issue solved. :) |
| 08:46.01 | jonni | you can always install 3rd party facebook client if you dont like the native one |
| 08:46.42 | rigo | my point is another one. You don't have a core client for google+ or status.net that you can't remove |
| 08:47.09 | ieatlint | that argument is the equiv of proving a negative |
| 08:47.27 | rigo | exactly |
| 08:47.31 | phako | because google+ didn't exist when the features for that phone were planned? |
| 08:48.03 | rigo | ieatlint, and by turning it upside down, you will see a positive discrimination in favor of the market leader |
| 08:48.05 | ieatlint | incorrect |
| 08:48.16 | ieatlint | you lack sufficient knowledge to draw any conclusions at all |
| 08:48.28 | rigo | ah, ok |
| 08:48.45 | ieatlint | for all you know, facebook paid nokia for it, and it's a working business relationship |
| 08:49.08 | ieatlint | which is a standard business model, and no reason to believe it was exclusive |
| 08:49.48 | rigo | ok |
| 08:49.49 | ieatlint | simply put, you don't know, and nokia does not prevent 3rd parties from adding things like google+ support |
| 08:50.06 | rigo | they don't need to |
| 08:52.30 | flux | isn't mp-harmattan-001-pr a virtual package? so basically removing it only results in potential future upgrades not working. |
| 08:52.37 | flux | perhaps in that case you can re-install it before upgrading. |
| 08:53.00 | itsnotabigtruck | flux: except that everything in harmattan is marked auto |
| 08:53.07 | rigo | flux, thanks, but I just wanted to understand the bundling |
| 08:53.16 | itsnotabigtruck | removing mp-harmattan-x-pr makes everything in the system autoremovable |
| 08:53.16 | flux | itsnotabigtruck, and there's a system that automatically removes non-dependend auto-packaes? |
| 08:53.25 | itsnotabigtruck | and autoremoved it will be |
| 08:53.31 | itsnotabigtruck | completely hosing your system |
| 08:53.42 | flux | well, apt-get install the rest of the packages first then :) |
| 08:53.48 | itsnotabigtruck | yeah, the package management backend (package-manager) autoremoves after every operation |
| 08:54.14 | itsnotabigtruck | also the apt-mark utility for managing the auto flag doesn't work without installing a bunch of stuff from the sdk repo |
| 08:54.31 | itsnotabigtruck | you can safely get rid of it if you apt-mark everything as manual |
| 08:54.36 | itsnotabigtruck | and don't ever want to SSU in the future |
| 08:54.39 | flux | nice, I didn't know about apt-mark |
| 08:55.02 | flux | I was thinking though that when you apt-get install an installed auto-package, it just marks it non-auto |
| 08:56.04 | itsnotabigtruck | i think that works too |
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| 08:58.23 | djszapiN9 | it is quite weird you cannot remove facebook |
| 08:58.55 | djszapiN9 | so that it is also hard wired... |
| 09:00.27 | djszapiN9 | rigo, did that work what denism wrote ? |
| 09:01.18 | rigo | djszapiN9, it would have wrecked my phone, so I did not do the --force-depends |
| 09:02.14 | djszapiN9 | damn facebook :) |
| 09:02.15 | rigo | I just did apt-get remove facebook and apt offered to remove facebook mp-harmattan-001-pr and autoremove everything else |
| 09:02.33 | rigo | at that point, I selected option "n" |
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| 09:02.50 | djszapiN9 | yes, of course, if it is also hard wired |
| 09:03.33 | rigo | just wanted to understand, now I understood. Thanks also to ieatlint for explaining me the business aspect of it |
| 09:03.36 | denism | rigo: "dpkg -r --force-depends facebook" will just remove the facebook package, that's all |
| 09:04.02 | rigo | with potential consequences for the SSU |
| 09:04.10 | denism | yes :) |
| 09:04.12 | rigo | not keen on doing that |
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| 09:08.50 | itsnotabigtruck | denism: that will also hose up apt |
| 09:08.52 | itsnotabigtruck | don't do that |
| 09:09.14 | itsnotabigtruck | go with the apt-mark approach, you could also tamper with /var/lib/dpkg/status |
| 09:09.37 | itsnotabigtruck | and change the dependencies of mp-harmattan-001-pr |
| 09:09.58 | djszapiN9 | rigo i do not personally advice the desktop file removal |
| 09:11.14 | djszapiN9 | the less hassle, if you just ignore it as me. :) |
| 09:11.14 | djszapiN9 | advise* |
| 09:14.04 | flux | maybe you can chmod a-r the desktop file |
| 09:14.11 | flux | not sure what will happen though :) |
| 09:14.14 | rigo | practically, that's what I'll do. |
| 09:15.07 | flux | reminded by this, I'll create a folder 'Crap' and put all the, well, crap inside it |
| 09:15.12 | djszapiN9 | rigo life is full of compromises :) |
| 09:15.36 | djszapiN9 | ...and pants :) |
| 09:16.11 | mece | itsnotabigtruck, how do you mess with the meta package dependencies? |
| 09:16.22 | djszapiN9 | flux that folder is gonna run out of space in no time :p |
| 09:16.49 | flux | djszapin9, they don't scroll? |
| 09:17.25 | djszapiN9 | just joking :) |
| 09:17.37 | qronic | rigo, just add NotShowIn=X-MeeGo; into facebook .desktop file |
| 09:17.52 | rigo | hey!! |
| 09:18.08 | rigo | there is always a workaround in IT :) |
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| 09:19.11 | djszapiN9 | point is, why do you need to modify a core package content for no real reasons. |
| 09:20.10 | djszapiN9 | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:20.36 | rigo | there is a reason, and this reason is created by business and I have understood that now :) |
| 09:20.47 | rigo | and a very onerous reason, I assume |
| 09:21.22 | djszapiN9 | it is created by business reason to hide one icon ? :) |
| 09:21.43 | rigo | you can't imagine how much noise it created when Jobs refused to have flash on his devices ... So there are entire industries depending on such deals... |
| 09:26.54 | auenf | time to hide djszapiN9 from the world for a business reason |
| 09:27.03 | Venemo | heh? |
| 09:27.25 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapiN9: sounds like a corporate policy to baninate social networking anything? |
| 09:27.29 | itsnotabigtruck | also o.O |
| 09:29.23 | itsnotabigtruck | mece: well, you go edit the file and change them to whatever you want |
| 09:29.28 | itsnotabigtruck | probably best to kick up the version a notch too |
| 09:29.56 | itsnotabigtruck | like add a +hacked1 or something to the end |
| 09:32.10 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: no, that is not what I meant. |
| 09:32.21 | djszapi | I asked why bother with altering a core package content for no real gains. |
| 09:35.37 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: i meant more as in rigo's objective |
| 09:35.51 | itsnotabigtruck | it sounds like the goal is to actually eliminate facebook from the phone |
| 09:36.47 | djszapi | I could not mention any real gains in comparison with the mess altering a core package content. |
| 09:37.25 | jonni | as its integrated into too many places, most likely it cannot be removed, but you can block it from working quite easily, etc/hosts, iptables, etc |
| 09:38.07 | jonni | (if your corporate policy forbids facebook) |
| 09:38.52 | djszapi | haha I would be surprised, if it is for real you cannot use the phone you bought :D |
| 09:38.53 | rigo | I will never ever again raise such an issue here :) |
| 09:39.08 | djszapi | at your company. |
| 09:40.12 | djszapi | and even more, if they actually check technically you nuke "facebook" out. |
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| 09:40.45 | itsnotabigtruck | rigo: tweaking the system metapackage and expunging anything that looks like facebook seems like the most elegant solution |
| 09:41.04 | itsnotabigtruck | that should at least remove things like the account plugin and facebook app |
| 09:41.19 | itsnotabigtruck | you could of course also easily break your system doing tricks like that |
| 09:41.27 | djszapi | rigo: have you company asked for nuking facebook on your phone ? |
| 09:41.37 | djszapi | your* |
| 09:41.51 | rigo | 1/ my phone is a company phone |
| 09:42.04 | rigo | 2/ my company is veeeery tolerant ;) |
| 09:42.18 | djszapi | both points confirm that, you do not really need to hack the phone out. |
| 09:42.21 | djszapi | for no real gains. |
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| 09:43.00 | rigo | djszapi, that wasn't my intent. I wanted to understand the bundling for non-technical solutions |
| 09:43.23 | rigo | s/solutions/conclusions/ |
| 09:43.40 | rigo | good bot |
| 09:44.01 | djszapi | indeed, and that is why I said, it is just better to ignore one icon, no ? :) |
| 09:45.06 | rigo | and that's what I'll do |
| 09:45.24 | djszapi | nice |
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| 09:46.05 | rigo | djszapi, but see, that actually gives me hope |
| 09:46.23 | rigo | the guys @facebook are everything but stupid |
| 09:47.15 | rigo | so if they bet money on having their app integrated into the N9, that means the have given this phone a potential |
| 09:47.16 | djszapi | tehdely: do you have a qt5 build on Mac ? |
| 09:48.02 | jonni | well actually facebook.provider is not in refhash list, so if you remove that file, then there is noway to make facebook accout, and your device would be 'without facebook' |
| 09:48.21 | jonni | if someone would want to make device without facebook.... |
| 09:48.47 | djszapi | jonni except that if it blows unexpectedly in the future |
| 09:48.54 | djszapi | they add it to the refhashlist etc |
| 09:48.58 | djszapi | it is really not worth it ... |
| 09:48.59 | jonni | but nobody wants to do that anyways :) |
| 09:49.02 | djszapi | or even a simple regression |
| 09:49.15 | jonni | yep that profider can appear back on next update. |
| 09:49.35 | djszapi | nah, really... |
| 09:49.41 | djszapi | you do not wanna risk this by any means. |
| 09:49.59 | djszapi | there are already enough troubles, to have yet another potential one. |
| 09:50.02 | rigo | it's really impossible to stop, seems too intriguing :)) |
| 09:52.25 | djszapi | jonni: actually, you gave me an idea for a report :) |
| 09:52.41 | djszapi | since it is a problem imo... |
| 09:53.38 | djszapi | also, I am surprised about the desktop file modifications too |
| 09:53.54 | djszapi | since if it is this benevolent, you can replace the exe line with anything.... |
| 09:54.02 | djszapi | which is an attack surface... |
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| 10:14.02 | radiofree | djszapi: pong |
| 10:14.32 | djszapi | radiofree: sorry, wanted to find someone with native English for checking my email back then, but already figured out. Thanks. :) |
| 10:14.58 | *** join/#harmattan dfaure (~dfaure@kde/dfaure) |
| 10:15.04 | radiofree | heh, ok ;) |
| 10:15.21 | radiofree | my irc bouncer isn't too great, I didn't see the PM until I got in today |
| 10:15.46 | djszapi | does http://codereview.qt-project.org/ load for others ? |
| 10:16.17 | djszapi | ok, it now loads. |
| 10:17.05 | dfaure | itsnotabigtruck: love you, man ;) |
| 10:17.16 | dfaure | itsnotabigtruck: my N9 boots again, and I didn't lose my calendar/contacts |
| 10:17.37 | dfaure | just had to flash the .bin you gave me the url for |
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| 10:50.09 | djszapi | any arch users here ? |
| 10:55.47 | gabriel9|work | here |
| 10:55.57 | gabriel9|work | i use one and only arch :) |
| 10:56.21 | djszapi | gabriel9|work: http://paste.kde.org/433568/ |
| 10:56.30 | djszapi | and http://paste.kde.org/433586/ |
| 10:57.08 | gabriel9|work | you have problems with keys? |
| 10:57.14 | gabriel9|work | importing them? |
| 10:57.27 | djszapi | gabriel9|work: not sure. |
| 10:57.41 | gabriel9|work | did you update your pacman.conf? |
| 10:57.48 | gabriel9|work | you need to use new one |
| 10:58.03 | gabriel9|work | i think new one is named pacman.conf.new |
| 10:58.07 | gabriel9|work | or something like that |
| 10:58.32 | djszapi | gabriel9|work: I fixed it: http://paste.kde.org/433592/ |
| 10:58.55 | gabriel9|work | ok |
| 10:59.06 | gabriel9|work | i'm not at home and ar work i have win |
| 10:59.13 | gabriel9|work | so i can't check that commands |
| 10:59.22 | gabriel9|work | but if it works great :) |
| 11:00.08 | djszapi | the thingie is that... |
| 11:00.14 | djszapi | the arch keyserver (default) is unrelaiable. |
| 11:00.16 | djszapi | unreliable* |
| 11:00.22 | djszapi | and the second got also messy |
| 11:00.26 | djszapi | and I now need to use a third one .. |
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| 11:24.37 | gabriel9|work | for me that new system with keys is too much |
| 11:24.50 | gabriel9|work | things worked good before |
| 11:24.53 | djszapi | +1 |
| 11:25.18 | djszapi | if you make things complicated, it is a general rule to make it automated for users to switch without hassles. |
| 11:38.58 | ab | itsnotabigtruck, regarding bug 1062, I've got promise from the head of imaging team it will be fixed. |
| 11:39.06 | _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1062 nor, ---, ---, marcell.lengyel, ASSI, libfcam-dev (camera control API) not available in Platform SDK |
| 11:41.13 | ab | by way of the bug update you can also see there will be SDK update very soon. |
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| 12:25.01 | tsenyk | hmpf ... i kind of bricked my device :) ... same as 2 others in my office :) |
| 12:26.00 | tsenyk | we were brave/dumb enought to try PR1.3 .. it seams that the lock-screen and the SIM-stack is broken since 40.2012.9-x |
| 12:26.17 | tsenyk | n9 retail version |
| 12:26.19 | djszapi | tsenyk: you might wanna use internal irc channel for PR1.3 |
| 12:26.28 | tsenyk | hm ok, your right :) |
| 12:26.29 | djszapi | since that is not released yet. |
| 12:26.35 | tsenyk | sorry :) |
| 12:26.39 | djszapi | I can help with the same nickname there. |
| 12:28.05 | phako | tsenyk: ping me(jgeorg) on PMO |
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| 12:52.49 | jreznik | wouldn't be easier open source the whole harmattan and than use this channel? :))) |
| 12:53.37 | djszapi | jreznik: open source does not mean there are no confidential information in a company, itself. |
| 12:54.40 | jreznik | djszapi: yeah, I understand and I hate it - everything should be open in open company :) |
| 12:54.58 | djszapi | agree |
| 12:55.08 | djszapi | that is why I disliked MeeGo, too. |
| 12:55.10 | djszapi | or Tizen. |
| 12:55.53 | djszapi | on an interesting note, it seems Tizen dropped WAC2.0 |
| 12:56.09 | djszapi | they might go for some jquery mobile or what ? :) |
| 12:59.43 | jreznik | lol |
| 13:00.09 | jreznik | the intel guys are crazy, every half yer a new technology... |
| 13:00.29 | djszapi | I would attend to the Tizen conference for fun. |
| 13:00.35 | jreznik | would be great to have billions dollars and just spend them depending on your mood :) |
| 13:00.38 | djszapi | but I would not be able to get sponsorship. |
| 13:00.46 | djszapi | hehehe |
| 13:00.47 | jreznik | djszapi: that could be funny :) |
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| 13:25.58 | djszapi | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Developer_tools_Performance_testing_tools_Using_PowerTOP.html -> Does powertop work for anybody |
| 13:26.12 | djszapi | I tried to install the power analyzes that way, but I am not getting "powertop" in the command line. |
| 13:26.34 | djszapi | "devtools-power" and "energy-profiler-plugin-power" packages I get on ly. |
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| 13:44.29 | djszapi | seems like a buggy documentation |
| 13:44.36 | djszapi | is opening a bug report... |
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| 13:52.22 | djszapi | https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1119 -> feel free to vote ;-) |
| 13:52.27 | _MeeGoBot_ | Bug 1119 maj, ---, ---, ext-risto.lahti, NEW, PowerTOP is not available for developers despite of the documentation |
| 13:54.19 | itsnotabigtruck | ab: awesome :) and yeah, the promise of an SDK update of some kind incoming is probably the most important thing |
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| 13:55.40 | danielcbit | Hi Everybody. Does some one know how to erase user files with postrm deb script? |
| 13:56.25 | itsnotabigtruck | danielcbit: what kind of user files? if they're data files it's not normally something you're supposed to do |
| 13:57.00 | itsnotabigtruck | anyway, you would write a case statement and when removing, you'd nuke the files with rm, simple as that |
| 13:57.03 | danielcbit | files created in .config and .local by my app. |
| 13:57.48 | merlin1991 | anbody got a working ntp client on the n9? I don't want to install the full ntpd |
| 13:57.52 | danielcbit | itsnotabigtruck: I did this but I always get Permission denied |
| 13:57.55 | merlin1991 | just make an udpate once in a while |
| 13:58.21 | djszapi | danielcbit: I can show an example |
| 13:58.24 | djszapi | if you are interested in that. |
| 13:58.26 | itsnotabigtruck | oh yeah, the files are owned by user |
| 13:58.30 | itsnotabigtruck | your postrm script runs as root |
| 13:58.41 | djszapi | it is very simple. |
| 13:58.55 | itsnotabigtruck | try asserting <request context="INSTALL"><credential name="UID::user" /></request> |
| 13:59.07 | itsnotabigtruck | that makes your postrm script run as user, i think |
| 13:59.29 | djszapi | danielcbit: for my cups package: http://paste.kde.org/433772/ |
| 13:59.31 | danielcbit | itsnotabigtruck: Ok, I'll try it. |
| 13:59.57 | djszapi | danielcbit: http://paste.kde.org/433778/ -> and this is the aegis file for that |
| 14:00.30 | djszapi | danielcbit: you can remove the first two sections, and customize the last according to your needs (user files: user access). |
| 14:00.35 | danielcbit | djszapi: but i still need the capability described by itsnotabigtruck. Right? |
| 14:00.44 | djszapi | and I gave you a full fledged example :) |
| 14:00.49 | djszapi | so it is only copy/paste :) |
| 14:01.40 | djszapi | Also, note that: you cannot fine tune the request only for the postrm script. |
| 14:01.45 | danielcbit | Thanks djszapi! This should be in the nokia Docs, although it is quite trivial. |
| 14:01.50 | djszapi | I wanted to implement that granularity back then, but did not find the time. |
| 14:01.58 | djszapi | danielcbit: it is in the Nokia docs ;-) |
| 14:02.29 | danielcbit | djszapi: I didn't managed to find. And I looked really hard. |
| 14:03.12 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: hm |
| 14:03.32 | djszapi | danielcbit: "The context attribute" here: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_Security_guide_Aegis_manifest_syntax.html |
| 14:03.37 | itsnotabigtruck | so preinst and postrm always run as UID::root and no caps? |
| 14:03.51 | djszapi | that is false. |
| 14:04.10 | djszapi | what I referred to is that you cannot have different cred set for those separately. |
| 14:04.24 | djszapi | as in, having A for 1, B for 2, etc |
| 14:04.24 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: that doc wouldn't help if he didn't already know how to solve it |
| 14:04.27 | itsnotabigtruck | oh ok |
| 14:04.29 | djszapi | where 1,2 .. are the maintainer scripts. |
| 14:04.45 | itsnotabigtruck | right, i think the 4 scripts always run with the same caps |
| 14:04.48 | djszapi | well, that docs helped many people :) |
| 14:05.12 | djszapi | I do not just think, I know :) |
| 14:05.26 | djszapi | unfortunately, I had not the time for making it nicer. oh well. |
| 14:06.36 | djszapi | Also, I wonder why the SDK team did not pubish the many examples I wrote back then. |
| 14:07.02 | djszapi | I think they would be useful for noobs about Harmattan security :/ |
| 14:07.19 | danielcbit | djszapi: Ok, I see it. But it is not related to remove user files. It seem kind of obscure info. The user has to make the connections to understand and use it. |
| 14:07.44 | djszapi | yes of course. |
| 14:07.51 | djszapi | we cannot provide copy/paste examples for everybody |
| 14:08.00 | djszapi | but the theory is there how to request creds for the maintainer scripts. |
| 14:09.04 | itsnotabigtruck | keep in mind that a lot of people still don't realize that being root != having dac_override god-mode filesystem access |
| 14:09.10 | djszapi | the documentation is already too long to make it even longer and more useful, so a minimal thinking is expected :) |
| 14:09.24 | itsnotabigtruck | and on normal debian you can rm anything anywhere from your maintainer scripts |
| 14:09.29 | danielcbit | djszapi: A nice note where would make things much clear: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Alternative_development_environments_Platform_SDK_user_guide_Packaging_your_application_with_Harmattan_Platform_SDK.html |
| 14:09.57 | djszapi | danielcbit: what do you mean ? |
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| 14:11.34 | danielcbit | djszapi: A note about the requirements for running maintainer scripts and a link to the aegis doc for deeper info |
| 14:11.37 | djszapi | there are two types of users: 1) Hate reading long docs 2) Hate short docs -> we have to find a balance in that, and I do not think this special case would be any hard. If you need to remove something, you need to be able to do that, so you need to request a credential. How to request a credential ? Manifest syntax guide. |
| 14:12.57 | djszapi | if we enumeate every single use case word by word, without requiring even a simple logic from /developers/, the documentation would go haywire. |
| 14:13.07 | djszapi | It is already very long according to many. |
| 14:13.09 | danielcbit | djszapi: everything is easy after you solved it. Bear in mind that. But thanks for all the help. I'll try to look harder next time |
| 14:15.04 | danielcbit | djszapi: I'm not saying about making it longer, but making it more connected. This would make novice developers feel more supported |
| 14:15.19 | djszapi | I do not really understand the problem. |
| 14:15.40 | djszapi | I need to do something. Do I have the creds for that ? No, mmh... I need to request it. How can I request it ? Go to the manifest syntax guide. |
| 14:16.02 | djszapi | it sounds natural logic to me. |
| 14:16.37 | djszapi | I am unsure in this context what "connected" menas. |
| 14:16.38 | djszapi | means* |
| 14:17.34 | djszapi | Please note that, the security team is not responsible for making the SDK documentation "connections", if you need such a thing |
| 14:17.44 | djszapi | we have never seen such a packaging documentation internally. |
| 14:21.53 | djszapi | Feel free to file a bugreport against the SDK team, if it really makes you happy. We need people happy in the end :) |
| 14:22.25 | danielcbit | djszapi: Like I was saying. Everything is much easier after you solved It. But a small not in harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Alternative_development_environments_Platform_SDK_user_guide_Packaging_your_application_with_Harmattan_Platform_SDK.html would certainly help lots of users. |
| 14:22.59 | danielcbit | djszapi: But thanks for the help and for the example! |
| 14:23.04 | djszapi | your are the first one I heard so far :) |
| 14:23.15 | djszapi | but really, if it bugs you, create a bugreport |
| 14:23.19 | djszapi | I will not mind :) |
| 14:23.48 | djszapi | They can probably add a link to the security documentation. |
| 14:24.50 | danielcbit | djszapi: Ok. |
| 14:25.14 | itsnotabigtruck | i think the issue here is that this is the sort of situation where no one realizes they need caps |
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| 14:25.54 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: and that is how, if operation permitted ? |
| 14:25.55 | itsnotabigtruck | also qt creator works hard to hide aegis from the dev, which means that if you need any deviation from that then people don't know what to do |
| 14:26.07 | djszapi | nah.. |
| 14:26.12 | djszapi | operation permitted is operation permitted everywhere. |
| 14:26.27 | djszapi | and even the SDK says that, if you need something that it does not autogenerate, go to the security guide |
| 14:26.42 | djszapi | "For further details". |
| 14:27.09 | itsnotabigtruck | doesn't mean people will fully understand the security guide and know they need more caps |
| 14:27.14 | itsnotabigtruck | well, creds, i should call them creds |
| 14:29.57 | djszapi | you can use any of those, I will understand :) |
| 14:30.28 | djszapi | well, if operation is not permitted, it is always a good thing to ask yourself: are you allowed to do that ? |
| 14:30.52 | djszapi | which is, if you are not sure, go to the security guide. |
| 14:31.25 | danielcbit | djszapi: Another problem is to know that caps are needed and which ones are really needed. What every caps provide is not documented. |
| 14:31.38 | djszapi | danielcbit: most of them are upstream linux |
| 14:31.43 | djszapi | /usr/include/linux/capabilities.h |
| 14:31.55 | dfaure | itsnotabigtruck: saw my note this morning? I want to thank you for your howto and for the download link, my N9 is working again. |
| 14:32.02 | djszapi | this is also documented, and also how you get the available creds that you can request. |
| 14:32.21 | djszapi | for the latter: accli is a good helper util. |
| 14:32.31 | djszapi | but there are other ways, too. |
| 14:33.39 | itsnotabigtruck | dfaure: glad you got your N9 going again :) |
| 14:34.00 | dfaure | itsnotabigtruck: and I didn't lose my calendar nor contacts. You saved me man ;) |
| 14:34.27 | danielcbit | djszapi:"/usr/include/linux/capabilities.h" from where? My distro? Harmattan? |
| 14:35.04 | djszapi | danielcbit: /usr/include/linux/capability.h on Harmattan of course :) |
| 14:35.33 | djszapi | there is a simple mapping from there into CAP::X stuff. |
| 14:35.50 | itsnotabigtruck | yeah, CAP::x is all linux capabilities, which are poorly documented but exist in all linux |
| 14:36.20 | djszapi | danielcbit: you know what ? I will put up a wikipage about the several policies |
| 14:36.30 | djszapi | to make it simpler to grab. |
| 14:36.38 | itsnotabigtruck | usually they're used so you can e.g. have a daemon that's allowed to listen on low ports but not do any other root stuf |
| 14:38.04 | danielcbit | djszapi: My N9 doesn't this file anywhere in the system. |
| 14:38.29 | itsnotabigtruck | danielcbit: it's a kernel header file, it would be in your scratchbox |
| 14:38.32 | djszapi | danielcbit: it is bundled during the build I guess. |
| 14:38.35 | itsnotabigtruck | but you can find info about caps on the net |
| 14:38.37 | itsnotabigtruck | has to run |
| 14:38.49 | djszapi | danielcbit: the dpk wrapper "imports" the mapping in during the build time. |
| 14:38.52 | djszapi | dpkg* |
| 14:39.29 | danielcbit | djszapi: This wiki would certainly help lots of people. |
| 14:39.36 | djszapi | danielcbit: you can grab this file on the kernel lxr page |
| 14:39.40 | djszapi | with the relevant kernel version |
| 14:39.49 | djszapi | I do not think we have local alterings in comparison with upstream |
| 14:39.51 | djszapi | wrt that file. |
| 14:40.17 | itsnotabigtruck | basically UID = your process' uid, GID = your process' gid, GRP = adds more groups beyond the gid, CAP = partial root access, tcb = lets you control aegis, everything else = can do anything, most of them have to do with dbus services |
| 14:40.45 | itsnotabigtruck | danielcbit ^ |
| 14:40.59 | danielcbit | djszapi: Ok. But you see. It is an enormous amount of work for such information. The wiki would be great! |
| 14:41.01 | djszapi | tcb is mostly irrelevant |
| 14:41.08 | djszapi | and there are way more creds than that :) |
| 14:41.50 | djszapi | danielcbit: many people have been complaining about documentation since last summer, but nobody put up a wikipage yet even a minimal one, ehh ? :) |
| 14:42.35 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: well yeah, there's way more creds, but they aren't hardwired into the system like those are |
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| 14:43.48 | djszapi | huh ? |
| 14:43.53 | djszapi | what do you mean ? Could you please clarify ? |
| 14:44.17 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: i mean, the UID/GID/GRP/CAP/tcb ones have special meaning |
| 14:44.24 | itsnotabigtruck | the other ones only do something if an app checks for them |
| 14:44.41 | itsnotabigtruck | e.g. the package manager ones that package-manager or dbus checks for |
| 14:44.46 | djszapi | still not sure what is your point |
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| 14:44.57 | djszapi | UID is needed for A |
| 14:45.03 | djszapi | other cap is needed for B |
| 14:45.07 | itsnotabigtruck | so it makes sense to lump them together as "everything else" |
| 14:45.10 | djszapi | Nokia specific token is needed for C |
| 14:45.17 | djszapi | Community specific token is needed for C |
| 14:45.18 | djszapi | D* |
| 14:45.30 | djszapi | they all have their purposes. |
| 14:46.08 | djszapi | mmmh, it is gonna be a hard job, I am used to the Nokia style wiki pages...not the meego style.. |
| 14:46.14 | itsnotabigtruck | bbl |
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| 14:51.15 | djszapi | danielcbit: http://wiki.meego.com/Aegis_Policies Not much information yet, but as a start ... |
| 14:51.32 | djszapi | I am soon off to the Plasma Active sprint, so I might not be able to extend it any soon :/ |
| 14:52.10 | djszapi | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page#Developing -> and I put a link in here for getting it easily accessible. |
| 14:52.25 | danielcbit | djszapi: But this is a great start! |
| 14:53.01 | djszapi | if I found my examples I wrote, I will publish those, too. |
| 14:53.08 | djszapi | would* |
| 14:53.12 | djszapi | but I do not have access to my Nokia email anymore. |
| 14:53.18 | djszapi | so cannot guarantee. |
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| 14:53.44 | djszapi | oh noes, I nuked everything aegis related while leaving... |
| 14:53.49 | djszapi | even what was public stuff, meh. |
| 14:56.08 | djszapi | danielcbit: that was it: http://paste.kde.org/433814/ Please check, if it is useful, I can put up to a public wiki page. |
| 14:59.36 | danielcbit | djszapi: This would certainly help, Put also an note about "/usr/include/linux/capabilities.h" |
| 15:00.11 | danielcbit | for other capabilities not described in this doc. |
| 15:00.52 | djszapi | they are, but we could link the lxr kernel source seeker engine |
| 15:01.13 | djszapi | for online browsing without checking it inside the build environment. |
| 15:01.35 | djszapi | though it would be better to link against the other page I have just created and describe it there more explicitely than the header file |
| 15:01.52 | djszapi | and if anybody (for some reasons, I do not know why) would need more information, he can go to the capability.h header file. |
| 15:03.08 | djszapi | radiofree: ping, are you satisfied with Marble ? |
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| 15:04.09 | danielcbit | djszapi: This would be great! |
| 15:10.12 | pa | is it possible to delete all messages (SMS) via command line? |
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| 15:45.56 | djszapi | anybody experiencing that, while connected to a wifi network, it writes that "you need to connect to a wifi network for downloading" inside the maps application ? |
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| 16:01.13 | beford | new nokia publisher page has some rendering problems :/ |
| 16:14.01 | djszapi | does anybody know how to align my Column in a page right above the Toolbar with some spacing like 5-10 px ? |
| 16:14.14 | djszapi | anchor.bottom: mytoolbarid.top; did not work out quite well. |
| 16:18.28 | spenap | i think you have to put parent.bottom, regardless of the toolbar being there |
| 16:18.38 | spenap | and then parent.bottomMargin |
| 16:19.40 | djszapi | okay, let me try. |
| 16:19.52 | djszapi | (I think I already tried that, but I may have messed that up) |
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| 16:30.47 | djszapi | spenap: ok that really helped, thanks. |
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| 16:56.56 | itsnotabigtruck | anyone on atm? |
| 16:57.42 | beford | no |
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| 16:57.48 | itsnotabigtruck | lol |
| 16:58.04 | njsf | I am also off |
| 16:58.20 | djszapi | beford: xD |
| 16:59.01 | djszapi | ieatlint: pants |
| 16:59.19 | djszapi | ieatlint: do I need to make any activities my qt5 patch was accepted, or will the approvers/maintainers manage that ? |
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| 17:20.39 | npm | winning! "meegolem-38-~> cp -p /media/n950-user/home/user/MyDocs/DCIM/1203*.jpg /media/n9-user/home/user/MyDocs/DCIM/. |
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| 17:39.46 | npm | wtf is a "tweet content error"... (status of a failed attempt to share a photo via twitter) |
| 17:42.14 | flux | btw, the pictures from my camera seem to have different kind of names than before |
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| 17:43.41 | flux | probably changed at pr1.2.. is there a way to revert? they used to be yyyymmdd_nnn.jpg but now they are yymmnnnn.jpg |
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| 18:49.28 | veli | hello, any idea how to locate the correct (as in same that qml uses) offlinestorage file from c++ side? Wonder if the md5 is stored somewhere. |
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| 19:00.01 | admiral0 | hello |
| 19:00.05 | admiral0 | ~update |
| 19:00.05 | infobot | update is, like, http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/n9-developer/2012/01/25/harmattan-1.2-beta-now-available-as-ocf-for-nokia-n950 |
| 19:00.29 | admiral0 | DocScrutinizer: update ~update please |
| 19:02.23 | ZogG_laptop | admiral0: no OTA here, DocScrutinizer didn't want to flash bot =P |
| 19:07.43 | djszapi | any ideas how to disable the button for clicks, but enable them all back in a positioner for an event ? https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kdeedu/khangman/repository/revisions/master/entry/src/harmattan/GamePage.qml#L260 |
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| 19:13.34 | ZogG_laptop | djszapi: enabled=true? |
| 19:14.10 | djszapi | that is not gonna solve it for all. |
| 19:14.57 | ZogG_laptop | than you make script |
| 19:15.22 | ZogG_laptop | or enabled:(something===1)?false :true |
| 19:15.32 | ZogG_laptop | and than you make the event to change it |
| 19:15.42 | ZogG_laptop | fro all buttons |
| 19:17.15 | djszapi | I tried to make the value conditional, depending on a value, but it did not work out for me. |
| 19:17.35 | djszapi | as far as I set it, once false, it remains. |
| 19:17.55 | ZogG_laptop | works for me |
| 19:18.03 | ZogG_laptop | as wall you can use states |
| 19:22.02 | ZogG_laptop | well* |
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| 19:24.46 | djszapi | mmh, it seems it works what I did in kanagram |
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| 19:26.32 | ZogG_laptop | kanagram? |
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| 19:30.02 | djszapi | mmmh, nope..I was wrong. |
| 19:30.09 | djszapi | well, no idea how to solve it. |
| 19:30.15 | djszapi | the most simply. |
| 19:30.23 | ZogG_laptop | show how you use it? |
| 19:30.58 | djszapi | nah, it is still not clear even in theory. |
| 19:31.15 | ZogG_laptop | okay it works for me anyway |
| 19:31.15 | djszapi | meanwhile I have achieved same in kanagram according to the model data. |
| 19:31.20 | djszapi | that is not gonna work here. |
| 19:31.21 | ZogG_laptop | using it in imgrup |
| 19:32.19 | djszapi | nabled:(something===1)?false :true -> it is not okay for my use case |
| 19:32.27 | djszapi | since my use case is not black and white |
| 19:32.39 | djszapi | my use case is black and colorful |
| 19:32.45 | djszapi | so any combination can occur during the game. |
| 19:32.56 | djszapi | but enabled by default. |
| 19:33.10 | ZogG_laptop | djszapi: yeah,that's why you change something on and off |
| 19:33.24 | ZogG_laptop | 1 or 0 i mean |
| 19:33.44 | djszapi | nope |
| 19:33.58 | djszapi | with the above line, everything is either enabled or disabled. |
| 19:34.01 | djszapi | and that is not my scenario. |
| 19:34.35 | ZogG_laptop | than just use in cript button1.enabled=true; |
| 19:34.51 | djszapi | there is no button1 |
| 19:35.02 | djszapi | all have the same id |
| 19:35.12 | ZogG_laptop | whateverbuttonname.enabled=true |
| 19:35.34 | djszapi | nah |
| 19:35.43 | djszapi | that is no separation |
| 19:35.53 | djszapi | for individual buttons |
| 19:36.07 | veli | Well if anyone else wonders how that offline storage can be found from c++: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/blobs/4.8/src/declarative/qml/qdeclarativesqldatabase.cpp#line371 |
| 19:36.07 | ZogG_laptop | than do it |
| 19:36.19 | djszapi | do what ? |
| 19:36.35 | djszapi | anyway, others too: https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kdeedu/kanagram/repository/revisions/master/entry/src/harmattan/GamePage.qml#L297 This is something that I would like to achieve. |
| 19:36.46 | djszapi | but the problem is that with khangman, it does not depend on the model data. |
| 19:37.00 | djszapi | so it is a bit more trouble.. actually I have no ideas how to do that. |
| 19:38.17 | ZogG_laptop | just load the name for every button in loader there are ids |
| 19:40.53 | djszapi | I was thinking of (status == init) ? true : true; |
| 19:41.12 | djszapi | so they are true for each status change. |
| 19:41.31 | djszapi | and if I flip out of the init state once, and then false immediately, I am good to go |
| 19:41.47 | djszapi | and when I turn it back to init, everything gets true. |
| 19:42.14 | djszapi | if the flip does not happen for status change in qml, I am not sure then ... |
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| 20:54.22 | djszapi | still waiting for ideas, if any :) |
| 20:56.53 | pa | anyone knowledeable of the HW of N9? if i plug it to a usb port that is capable of up to 2A (instead of the standard 500mA), does the N9 drains 2A, or it sticks to 500mA? |
| 20:58.33 | djszapi | SpeedEvil: ^ |
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| 21:13.58 | DrGrov | Evening |
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| 21:14.16 | DrGrov | Safe to keep the N9 charging over right, 12-15 hours or so without removing charger once it has fully charged? |
| 21:14.22 | DrGrov | *night |
| 21:14.30 | djszapi | yes |
| 21:14.35 | DrGrov | Thanks djszapi |
| 21:14.40 | djszapi | even with wall charger imho |
| 21:14.54 | DrGrov | Yes, I am using the wall charger |
| 21:14.57 | djszapi | one of my device is on the charger for many weeks xD |
| 21:15.02 | DrGrov | :) |
| 21:15.04 | djszapi | I forgot to actually remove now you say... |
| 21:15.23 | DrGrov | I just thought to verify since I probably will forget to remove it anyhow later tonight before I get to bed |
| 21:15.44 | djszapi | does not go to bed tonigh |
| 21:15.46 | djszapi | t |
| 21:16.24 | djszapi | frals ping |
| 21:16.25 | DrGrov | What kind of times are we talking about when it eventually becomes harmful for the phone battery to be charging constantly? |
| 21:16.39 | djszapi | frals you are good at Qml, do you have any ideas for the button enable/disable issues ? |
| 21:19.06 | itsnotabigtruck | any idea why: sudo chmod -R a=rX,u+w dir |
| 21:19.28 | itsnotabigtruck | seems to be skipping files in the directory tree? |
| 21:19.34 | itsnotabigtruck | (this isn't harmattan, but close enough) |
| 21:21.38 | djszapi | interesting you use capital x |
| 21:21.51 | djszapi | what precisely do you mean by "skipping files" ? |
| 21:22.00 | itsnotabigtruck | i'm under the impression it's supposed to make directories +x and files -x |
| 21:22.17 | itsnotabigtruck | so the idea is to normalize a directory tree to 0644 on files and 0755 on directories |
| 21:23.56 | djszapi | spenap: do you have any ideas for that very qml issue ? |
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| 21:28.17 | knee | Anyone else having problems with wlan connections in pr1.2?? Connection 'seems' to be ok, but I can't download anything / open webpages.. Reconnect to the network helps.. at least for a while (problem occurs every few minutes) |
| 21:29.22 | knee | I tried to reflash my n9 (which didn't help), I'm now clearing the device to see if that helps.. But I'm open to any other solution (/or test..) |
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| 21:31.47 | njsf | knee no, my current problem is with gmail syncing not happening on Fenix |
| 21:31.53 | njsf | but Wlan connections work fine |
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| 21:50.50 | itsnotabigtruck | btw it looks like my problem was that X doesn't do quite what i thought it did, in chmod |
| 21:51.11 | itsnotabigtruck | i thought it was +x for directories only, it's actually +x for directories /and/ files that have any of their +x bits set |
| 21:51.33 | itsnotabigtruck | that is, it'll set +x on files but it won't clear it |
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| 22:15.58 | blueslee | ~update |
| 22:15.58 | infobot | update is, like, http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/n9-developer/2012/01/25/harmattan-1.2-beta-now-available-as-ocf-for-nokia-n950 |
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| 22:42.05 | gabriel9 | guys here is one wallper which i fix for N9 |
| 22:42.07 | gabriel9 | https://picasaweb.google.com/106083253939937812176/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCOfntumIgr2vJw#5716546512977600450 |
| 22:42.51 | rZr | redak just hit app4meego store can you double check ? |
| 22:46.55 | gabriel9 | i cant see redak |
| 22:48.09 | *** join/#harmattan risca (~risca@wi-secure-5637.cc.umanitoba.ca) |
| 22:48.20 | rZr | testing mode should be enabled i guess |
| 22:52.44 | ZogG_laptop | rzr not there |
| 22:52.51 | rZr | http://apps.formeego.org/staging/applications/n9/pr1.0/harmattan/Utilities/redak/ |
| 22:53.08 | ZogG_laptop | rzr checking from client with testing enabled |
| 22:54.42 | ZogG_laptop | rZr: lol, search found it though |
| 22:54.42 | rZr | thx guys |
| 22:54.51 | ZogG_laptop | rZr: so it's there |
| 22:55.12 | ZogG_laptop | 5 stars already ? =) |
| 22:55.39 | rZr | was testing my account :) |
| 22:55.49 | gabriel9 | when will redak be aviable? |
| 22:56.06 | *** join/#harmattan befr0d (~fercho@186.114.59.111) |
| 22:56.09 | rZr | once it gets 42 stars |
| 22:56.14 | gabriel9 | :D |
| 22:56.32 | gabriel9 | damn this site, i cant download any app |
| 22:56.46 | ZogG_laptop | gabriel9: which one? |
| 22:56.56 | gabriel9 | apps for meego |
| 22:57.03 | gabriel9 | ok i know it is for meego |
| 22:57.15 | gabriel9 | but links should worl |
| 22:57.18 | gabriel9 | work |
| 22:57.31 | ZogG_laptop | gabriel9: install client for it |
| 22:57.37 | ZogG_laptop | it's for n9 |
| 22:57.39 | ZogG_laptop | as well |
| 22:57.54 | gabriel9 | is it safe? :) |
| 22:57.57 | ZogG_laptop | rZr: search shows it, though on recent tab can't see it |
| 22:58.17 | ZogG_laptop | rZr: hm, the icon is wierd |
| 22:58.26 | rZr | well i have to go i'll check tomorow |
| 22:58.26 | gabriel9 | why can't i download it on my Arch? |
| 22:58.45 | gabriel9 | and then copy on N9 and then install :) |
| 22:58.54 | rZr | ZogG_laptop: that icon lol i did use inkscape while on lsd :) |
| 22:59.36 | gabriel9 | don't use LSD, i know dude which go crazy becouse of it X/ |
| 23:00.05 | rZr | i am not, dont need some, see my icons :-) |
| 23:01.03 | rZr | bybye thx for testing |
| 23:01.13 | ZogG_laptop | installed |
| 23:01.15 | ZogG_laptop | workibg |
| 23:01.16 | ZogG_laptop | bye |
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