| 00:00.21 | Venemo | I don't care about the desktop much. |
| 00:00.36 | Venemo | so, tell me, is Plasma Active actually usable now? |
| 00:00.47 | faenil | djszapi, do you know anything about PA on Archos G9 tablet? |
| 00:00.55 | faenil | it should be the tablet used for PA testing |
| 00:00.55 | djszapi | Venemo: it was not a hacking sprint, mostly. |
| 00:01.05 | djszapi | Venemo: hard to pretend the savior in 3 days. |
| 00:01.06 | Venemo | djszapi, what kind of sprint was it then? |
| 00:01.18 | Venemo | I see |
| 00:01.37 | Venemo | well, the progress of PA makes me really sad. (or, rather the lack of it) |
| 00:01.38 | djszapi | it was a design/architecture/vision decision sprint about certain things... |
| 00:01.49 | Venemo | I see |
| 00:01.54 | djszapi | and more importantly, keep tunned about desktop |
| 00:02.04 | djszapi | we will have very interesting in the near future soon. |
| 00:02.25 | Venemo | well, Gnome 3 is already a great desktop, why reinvent the wheel? |
| 00:02.48 | djszapi | heh...trolling question :) |
| 00:02.53 | Venemo | indeed :P |
| 00:03.15 | Venemo | anyway, KDE has some really nice people behind it, I hope they'll come up with something nice too |
| 00:03.20 | *** join/#harmattan pinheiro_ (~pinheiro@bl19-56-168.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 00:03.26 | Venemo | Gnome people are hard-headed and impossible to work with. |
| 00:03.39 | djszapi | Venemo: you like trolling :p |
| 00:03.52 | djszapi | gnome has many good participants, too |
| 00:04.13 | djszapi | we talk a lot with them at desktop summits, we are not "antagonists". |
| 00:04.30 | Venemo | well, this is a fact. Gnome people didn't listen to any of my suggestions and they took me for an idiot |
| 00:04.43 | Venemo | whereas KDE people usually are a lot more polite |
| 00:04.52 | Venemo | this is only my own IRC experience though |
| 00:05.12 | Venemo | but really, I don't even understand why Gnome is the better desktop if the Gnome people are so much worse. |
| 00:05.17 | djszapi | we actually had one gnome guy at this KDE sprint, too. |
| 00:05.55 | djszapi | we had few at Randa last year too, and they might also invite KDE developers to their sprint too in the future. |
| 00:06.00 | djszapi | and I think this is a nice thing. |
| 00:06.15 | Venemo | indeed |
| 00:12.47 | djszapi | hopefully sells the N9 64 GB today for 300 EUR. |
| 00:13.02 | Venemo | what will you be using instead? |
| 00:13.11 | Venemo | ha! I know! the Lumia! |
| 00:13.38 | djszapi | probably android since I need to develop for it anyway... |
| 00:15.05 | djszapi | Venemo: I have a qml question... |
| 00:15.23 | Venemo | djszapi, sure, ask |
| 00:15.48 | faenil | djszapi, about my question today, I didn't find an answer, not in qt-qml either :P |
| 00:16.11 | djszapi | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:16.26 | djszapi | but once the user figured out the word, it would be nice to get all the pseudo-vkbd buttons enabled again. this is the repeater and button code: https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kdeedu/khangman/repository/revisions/master/entry/src/harmattan/GamePage.qml#L260 |
| 00:16.31 | djszapi | Venemo: ^ |
| 00:16.39 | djszapi | faenil: you do not seek well :p |
| 00:16.48 | faenil | djszapi, there's no answer, qml can't do that :P |
| 00:16.54 | djszapi | yawns |
| 00:17.11 | Venemo | djszapi, I see. so you disable the buttons, but they aren't enabled back? |
| 00:17.31 | djszapi | Venemo: I would like to enable back if the user asks for a new word in khangman |
| 00:17.37 | djszapi | or the user just solves the word. |
| 00:17.42 | Venemo | djszapi, enabled = true doesn't work? |
| 00:17.50 | djszapi | did not for me. |
| 00:18.01 | djszapi | I mean not even in theory... |
| 00:18.06 | Venemo | why not? |
| 00:18.26 | djszapi | well, how would you set all the elements with the delegate ? |
| 00:18.37 | Venemo | ah, I understand the problem. |
| 00:18.45 | *** join/#harmattan teleshoes (d0362df5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.54.45.245) |
| 00:19.09 | djszapi | I did a similar hackery for the word in kanagram |
| 00:19.10 | Venemo | have you tried resetting the model? the delegates should be regenerated then. |
| 00:19.19 | djszapi | state == init ? "" : modelData; |
| 00:19.26 | djszapi | something like that, but then I could depend on the modeldata |
| 00:19.29 | djszapi | not this time. |
| 00:19.46 | djszapi | what do you mean by "resetting the model" ? |
| 00:19.50 | Venemo | or simply add a role to the model and bind the button's enabled property to that. |
| 00:19.51 | teleshoes | hey, does anyone know how to get IRC requests working on tmobile? |
| 00:20.06 | djszapi | teleshoes: what do you mean ? |
| 00:20.16 | teleshoes | *** Notice -- You need to identify via SASL to use this server |
| 00:20.17 | djszapi | yo ucannot use irc with your operator ? |
| 00:20.22 | teleshoes | yep |
| 00:20.23 | *** join/#harmattan pinheiro_ (~pinheiro@2.80.56.168) |
| 00:20.33 | djszapi | well, it works for my friend with tmobile... |
| 00:20.42 | djszapi | but then I guess you need to use sasl |
| 00:20.43 | teleshoes | im not alone |
| 00:20.43 | teleshoes | http://support.t-mobile.com/message/96944 |
| 00:20.49 | djszapi | so the client has to support it |
| 00:20.52 | Venemo | djszapi, I mean http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qabstractitemmodel.html#reset |
| 00:20.56 | teleshoes | client totally does |
| 00:21.01 | teleshoes | same client {pidgin} |
| 00:21.08 | teleshoes | works on all networks, except tmobile |
| 00:21.18 | djszapi | then it shouldwork |
| 00:21.29 | teleshoes | yep, except it doesnt on tmobile |
| 00:21.33 | teleshoes | because they dont handle something wrong |
| 00:21.37 | teleshoes | er, w/e |
| 00:21.42 | djszapi | Venemo: you do see I do not use C++ model, right ? |
| 00:21.43 | teleshoes | http://readystate4.com/2011/02/25/solution-to-sasl-error-while-joining-irc-from-a-tethered-mobile-device-notice-you-need-to-identify-via-sasl-to-use-this-server/ |
| 00:21.53 | Venemo | djszapi, ah, sorry. |
| 00:22.06 | djszapi | or well, actually I do |
| 00:22.10 | djszapi | QStringListModel |
| 00:22.19 | djszapi | the alphabet is generated by this: |
| 00:22.49 | djszapi | teleshoes: could you please check with your operator ? |
| 00:22.56 | Venemo | djszapi, so, only 300€? what color is it? :P |
| 00:23.07 | teleshoes | yea, good idea |
| 00:23.07 | acidjunkie | anyone who can help with gstreamer and camerabin/2? |
| 00:23.29 | djszapi | Venemo: https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kdeedu/khangman/repository/revisions/master/entry/src/harmattan/khangmanenginehelper.cpp#L153 |
| 00:23.32 | djszapi | Venemo: black |
| 00:25.07 | Venemo | djszapi, ah, I wanted a white one |
| 00:25.50 | Venemo | djszapi, just regenerate the model then |
| 00:26.33 | djszapi | Venemo: use white cover |
| 00:26.42 | djszapi | the default cover to the phone covers almost the whole phone anyway |
| 00:26.45 | Venemo | I would never use the cover, it's ugly as hell |
| 00:26.48 | djszapi | so it should not be a biggie |
| 00:26.58 | djszapi | huh ? |
| 00:27.00 | Venemo | use this when the game starts: alphabetLetterRepeater.model = alphabet = khangmanEngineHelper.alphabet() |
| 00:27.10 | djszapi | it is the same form as the phone... |
| 00:27.18 | Venemo | djszapi, it makes the phone look fat, dumb, and ugly |
| 00:27.29 | djszapi | have you actually seen a cover yet ? |
| 00:27.32 | Venemo | yes |
| 00:27.46 | teleshoes | i love my cover |
| 00:27.46 | Venemo | the Lumia 800 has it too |
| 00:27.51 | teleshoes | dont hurt its feelings |
| 00:28.00 | djszapi | it is nowhere close to "fat" |
| 00:28.10 | djszapi | and I would personally be afraid without a cover |
| 00:28.16 | djszapi | my phone gets scratched etc... |
| 00:28.17 | teleshoes | yea me too |
| 00:28.30 | Venemo | why? gorilla glass is unscratchable + scratches are not very noticeable on the polycarbonate |
| 00:28.31 | faenil | djszapi, I kept the cover on the N9 |
| 00:28.39 | faenil | decided to take it off the Lumia |
| 00:28.44 | faenil | it's completely different feeling |
| 00:28.50 | Venemo | I was kinda careless with the Lumia, and it doesn't have a single scratch. |
| 00:28.55 | djszapi | Venemo: it is not about the glass... |
| 00:28.56 | teleshoes | gorilla glass is not even close to unscratchable |
| 00:29.04 | djszapi | and it is very scratchable |
| 00:29.10 | djszapi | I think Corsac got it injuried |
| 00:29.11 | Venemo | me wants this: http://www.engadget.com/photos/white-nokia-n9-overview/ |
| 00:29.15 | djszapi | or perhaps someone else |
| 00:29.34 | *** join/#harmattan pinheiro_ (~pinheiro@bl19-56-168.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 00:29.40 | teleshoes | the case is more like n9-clothes |
| 00:29.45 | teleshoes | than a case |
| 00:29.46 | djszapi | agree |
| 00:29.58 | Venemo | the white one also has a nice-looking pouch instead of that ugly silicone thing |
| 00:30.04 | djszapi | since I would like to wear a cover, it does not matter too much to me which color |
| 00:30.16 | teleshoes | you can see some of the color tho |
| 00:30.19 | teleshoes | if you mismatch |
| 00:30.19 | djszapi | I can put any cover onto it, especially if an n9 64 GB is that cheap like 300 EUR :) |
| 00:30.25 | teleshoes | around the buttons and that little slot thng |
| 00:30.30 | djszapi | yes, as I said, it is not a full cover |
| 00:30.42 | djszapi | but is it really sane to pay 100-200 EUR more ? :) |
| 00:30.56 | teleshoes | did you say 300E..? |
| 00:31.00 | djszapi | yeah |
| 00:31.05 | teleshoes | goddamn |
| 00:31.19 | djszapi | I have two people interested in, so any of them coming sooner today can have it :) |
| 00:31.30 | teleshoes | i stopped following it after i paid ~400 |
| 00:31.33 | Venemo | djszapi, good luck then :) |
| 00:31.42 | djszapi | teleshoes: 64 GB ? |
| 00:32.15 | Venemo | djszapi, I don't have 300€ to spend on a phone right now |
| 00:32.43 | djszapi | Venemo: and I would not sell it to you either :p |
| 00:32.47 | teleshoes | yea... |
| 00:32.48 | Venemo | djszapi, why not? |
| 00:32.49 | djszapi | too much hassle with deliverying. |
| 00:33.03 | djszapi | if there are people interested in this...same city ya know :) |
| 00:33.05 | Venemo | djszapi, you dislike me? |
| 00:33.10 | djszapi | yes |
| 00:33.12 | djszapi | :) |
| 00:33.17 | Venemo | I'm sad. |
| 00:33.25 | djszapi | teleshoes: so you havebought it recently. |
| 00:33.31 | djszapi | since 400 EUR is like a very fresh price. |
| 00:33.36 | djszapi | unless you bought it second hand |
| 00:33.50 | djszapi | and 400 EUR is not an available price in many countries. |
| 00:33.55 | djszapi | Venemo: do not cry xD |
| 00:34.14 | teleshoes | ...? http://www.welectronics.com/gsm/Nokia/Nokia_N9-64GB-Black.HTML |
| 00:34.21 | teleshoes | its el-cheapo there |
| 00:34.58 | djszapi | I do not know this site |
| 00:35.04 | djszapi | but it is currently 400 EUR in Finland. |
| 00:35.04 | teleshoes | when i bought it, it was, lessee, 430 euros |
| 00:35.24 | djszapi | and 350-400 on second hand sites. |
| 00:35.31 | teleshoes | mines chinese made, of course |
| 00:35.37 | djszapi | that is why I think, I have people interested in mine for 300 EUR |
| 00:35.42 | djszapi | heh |
| 00:35.42 | Venemo | djszapi, this month, I'm going to spend my money on a new laptop. I need that more than a new phone anyway. |
| 00:35.58 | teleshoes | no wai dude, you WANT THIS |
| 00:36.03 | djszapi | Venemo: just give it to the poor people :) |
| 00:36.09 | djszapi | your money, that is xD |
| 00:36.18 | Venemo | djszapi, why would I do that? |
| 00:36.24 | djszapi | Venemo: being cool :P |
| 00:36.29 | teleshoes | so they could have an n9 |
| 00:36.51 | Venemo | djszapi, I earned it myself. I'm a lazy person. If I was able to work for my money still, anyone could. |
| 00:37.04 | Venemo | anyway, let's net get into philosophical questions :) |
| 00:37.09 | Venemo | s/net/not |
| 00:37.29 | teleshoes | i like that pattern more than * |
| 00:37.32 | teleshoes | s// that is |
| 00:37.38 | djszapi | not everybody is a windows expert Venemo to get a cool job :P |
| 00:37.47 | Venemo | djszapi, I'm not a windows expert |
| 00:37.51 | teleshoes | heh |
| 00:37.57 | djszapi | oh not even a windows expert ? :)) |
| 00:38.18 | Venemo | well, you could consider me that anyway :) |
| 00:38.25 | Venemo | but I'm just a .NET developer. |
| 00:38.31 | Venemo | well, a pretty good one actually :P |
| 00:38.32 | teleshoes | oh noooo |
| 00:38.49 | djszapi | is getting closer to collapsing :/ |
| 00:39.33 | djszapi | Venemo: anyway, setting the same string again is a bit of hackery...plus apparently does not seem to work/. |
| 00:39.41 | Venemo | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:40.19 | djszapi | probably it is impossible to do in qml. |
| 00:41.13 | djszapi | would not like to change the game concept because of qml limitations :/ |
| 00:41.42 | Venemo | djszapi, what happens if you set it to undefined first? |
| 00:41.44 | Venemo | or null? |
| 00:41.53 | Venemo | then call the helper method again |
| 00:42.10 | djszapi | sorry, but what do you mean ? Could you please clarify ? |
| 00:42.31 | Venemo | alphabetLetterRepeater.model = undefined |
| 00:42.38 | Venemo | alphabetLetterRepeater.model khangmanEngineHelper.alphabet() |
| 00:42.41 | Venemo | sorry |
| 00:42.46 | Venemo | alphabetLetterRepeater.model = khangmanEngineHelper.alphabet() |
| 00:42.48 | Venemo | this |
| 00:43.03 | djszapi | heh, even bigger hackery :p |
| 00:43.07 | Venemo | yeah |
| 00:43.15 | Venemo | not the smallest hackery I've done. |
| 00:44.05 | djszapi | so let me rephrase the use case: |
| 00:44.15 | djszapi | I would like to change a property for all element in a positioner.... |
| 00:44.19 | faenil | guys |
| 00:44.26 | faenil | how do I write the copyright symbol in qml? |
| 00:44.31 | djszapi | it sounds a sane use case, right ? |
| 00:44.32 | faenil | I have it in a styled text |
| 00:44.38 | faenil | and I use "©" |
| 00:44.42 | faenil | but it prints a white space |
| 00:44.54 | Venemo | faenil, ctrl+C ctrl+V it from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_symbol |
| 00:45.36 | faenil | lol |
| 00:45.43 | faenil | nope :P |
| 00:45.48 | faenil | it's in a styled text |
| 00:45.50 | Venemo | worth a try. |
| 00:45.59 | Venemo | © |
| 00:46.01 | djszapi | faenil: or just go to sleep :) |
| 00:46.04 | faenil | if I just get the symbol |
| 00:46.07 | Venemo | djszapi ++ |
| 00:46.15 | faenil | djszapi, you're not being nice :P |
| 00:46.25 | faenil | if I just write the symbol it prints a square |
| 00:46.28 | djszapi | faenil: why, you do not like taking a rest ? :p |
| 00:46.41 | faenil | if I write "©" which is the html code for that symbol, it doesn't print anything |
| 00:46.55 | *** join/#harmattan pinheiro_ (~pinheiro@bl19-56-168.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 00:47.41 | faenil | ............ |
| 00:47.42 | djszapi | Venemo: oh btw, you should implement sasl support in irc-chatter |
| 00:48.04 | Venemo | I don't have much time for irc-chatter in the foreseeable future |
| 00:48.12 | Venemo | but anyway, what is sasl? |
| 00:48.25 | *** join/#harmattan gabriel9 (~gabriel9@31.223.217.150) |
| 00:48.40 | djszapi | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Authentication_and_Security_Layer |
| 00:48.50 | Venemo | oh, my god |
| 00:49.07 | Venemo | seems hard. |
| 00:49.47 | djszapi | lol |
| 00:49.54 | Venemo | now that I hacked the latest firmware onto it, do you think I should give the Lumia another chance? or should I just let it rot? |
| 00:50.14 | djszapi | burn in the hell ! :) |
| 00:50.18 | faenil | lol |
| 00:50.44 | Venemo | djszapi, what did you do with yours? |
| 00:50.53 | djszapi | Venemo: burnt in the hell :P |
| 00:51.03 | Venemo | djszapi, srsly? |
| 00:51.14 | djszapi | yes, I sent it to Lucifer via email |
| 00:51.45 | Venemo | aaaah! yeah! now I recall!!! so it was you from whom I got that Lumia via email the other day? |
| 00:52.05 | djszapi | heh, you waited for it, right |
| 00:52.16 | djszapi | but ... why do you have N9 then ? :) |
| 00:52.21 | djszapi | should go to the heaven :P |
| 00:52.28 | djszapi | or rather: n950 |
| 00:53.04 | djszapi | Venemo: anyway'ish...this thingie might be a less hackery'ish approach: for (var i in positionerId.children) { positionerId.children[i],theProperty = value} |
| 00:53.15 | faenil | damn copyright symbol |
| 00:53.16 | Venemo | why? it's black. it belongs with me. |
| 00:53.31 | Venemo | djszapi, perhaps. if it works, I'll be happy :) |
| 00:53.40 | djszapi | Venemo: you are not happy now ? |
| 00:53.41 | teleshoes | just right Copyright |
| 00:53.52 | faenil | teleshoes, don't have space for that :D |
| 00:53.57 | teleshoes | mm |
| 00:54.08 | Venemo | djszapi, I'm happy now, and I'll be even happier if that piece of code works |
| 00:54.13 | djszapi | :D |
| 00:54.32 | djszapi | so 'sup with the qt mono bindingy ? |
| 00:54.55 | teleshoes | ive totally seen it in a styled text |
| 00:55.53 | faenil | teleshoes, wonderful, can you remember where? :D |
| 00:55.58 | *** join/#harmattan gabriel9 (~gabriel9@31.223.217.150) |
| 00:56.02 | Venemo | djszapi, I will not even comment on that question |
| 00:56.19 | djszapi | Venemo: huh ? |
| 00:56.25 | *** join/#harmattan pinheiro_ (~pinheiro@bl19-56-168.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 00:56.36 | Venemo | djszapi, Qt to Mono is a nice idea though. |
| 00:56.46 | Venemo | but it sounds too painful. |
| 00:57.11 | djszapi | you are vague ;) |
| 00:57.33 | Venemo | well. getting Mono work on Harmattan would be an annoying task at best |
| 00:57.49 | djszapi | well I basically built it back then... |
| 00:57.53 | djszapi | have not packaged though |
| 00:57.57 | Venemo | and writing P/Invoke for Qt is basically monkey coding |
| 00:57.59 | djszapi | and it works quite well for monodroid... |
| 00:58.43 | *** join/#harmattan beford (~fercho@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 01:00.09 | teleshoes | faenil, ach they used the legally meaningless (C) |
| 01:00.12 | teleshoes | sry |
| 01:01.06 | faenil | ? |
| 01:01.09 | faenil | oh ok :D |
| 01:01.50 | djszapi | faenil: just sleep :) |
| 01:02.28 | djszapi | is towards the bed, and hopefully there in few hours... |
| 01:02.29 | faenil | djszapi, please. It's not nice anymore |
| 01:02.36 | djszapi | heh xD |
| 01:03.10 | djszapi | .mehasbadsense of humour :/ |
| 01:03.24 | faenil | :P |
| 01:03.30 | djszapi | Venemo: anyway, I will let you know tomorrow whether this children[i] thingie works. |
| 01:03.39 | Venemo | djszapi, ok :) |
| 01:03.43 | Venemo | djszapi, you going to sleep too? |
| 01:03.53 | djszapi | I really need to get some extremely cold Finnish city now :) |
| 01:03.58 | djszapi | well, still at the airport |
| 01:04.07 | Venemo | oh |
| 01:04.14 | djszapi | hacking was more important than going home in the first place ... you know :) |
| 01:04.26 | Venemo | I know! :) |
| 01:07.26 | merlin1991 | somebody got the link to the n9 L3_L4 manual? |
| 01:08.33 | merlin1991 | remembers a pdf floating around |
| 01:09.09 | teleshoes | oh looky there, its not on wikipedia |
| 01:09.48 | teleshoes | i mean cpkb/wiki |
| 01:09.58 | merlin1991 | teleshoes: ;) |
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| 01:20.30 | virtuald | 71% [1 exec:////usr/bin/osa --packages 0B]QNetworkReplyImpl::_q_startOperation was called more than once |
| 01:20.36 | virtuald | why do that happen? |
| 01:21.01 | virtuald | and do i need to worry? |
| 01:21.47 | *** join/#harmattan pinheiro_ (~pinheiro@2.80.56.168) |
| 01:22.45 | MohammadAG | no, this is a warning from the internal Qt API |
| 01:22.47 | MohammadAG | idk why |
| 01:23.23 | virtuald | i think it happened when i removed lock files to be able to run apt get |
| 01:23.33 | MohammadAG | it always happens |
| 01:23.37 | MohammadAG | in all Qt apps |
| 01:23.44 | virtuald | it wont go away at least |
| 01:23.59 | virtuald | i don't remember this happenging with 1.1 |
| 01:25.33 | faenil | good night people |
| 01:28.33 | MohammadAG | it happens even on the N900... |
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| 01:34.28 | virtuald | oh |
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| 02:17.12 | zx2c4 | Something very bad happened to me |
| 02:17.18 | zx2c4 | I can OneClickFlash my N950 |
| 02:17.19 | zx2c4 | http://pastebin.com/pEwGQhUz |
| 02:17.26 | zx2c4 | it says something about downgrade disallowed |
| 02:17.35 | zx2c4 | but im pretty sure i downloaded the most recent oneclickflasher |
| 02:17.41 | zx2c4 | now my device wont boot at all |
| 02:17.52 | zx2c4 | ERROR: SU_GET_UPDATE_STATUS_REQ terminated with error code 10: Security failure |
| 02:17.58 | zx2c4 | Downgrade disallowed (1326808332) |
| 02:18.07 | zx2c4 | what am I gonnnna do |
| 02:18.11 | zx2c4 | my beloved n950 |
| 02:31.01 | itsnotabigtruck | zx2c4: hmmm |
| 02:31.10 | zx2c4 | any ideas? |
| 02:31.37 | itsnotabigtruck | the number is a unix time |
| 02:31.39 | itsnotabigtruck | GMT: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 13:52:12 GMT |
| 02:31.52 | itsnotabigtruck | looks like the date of the pr1.2 beta release |
| 02:32.04 | zx2c4 | is there a one click flasher of that? |
| 02:32.12 | itsnotabigtruck | erm, you're trying to flash your pr1.2beta n950 |
| 02:32.16 | itsnotabigtruck | with a pr1.1 image |
| 02:32.26 | *** join/#harmattan pinheiro_ (~pinheiro@bl19-56-168.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 02:32.28 | zx2c4 | can i get a pr1.2beta image? |
| 02:32.30 | itsnotabigtruck | Version of 'sw-release': DFL61_HARMATTAN_3.2012.02-6_PR_RM680 |
| 02:32.32 | itsnotabigtruck | Image SW version DFL61_HARMATTAN_2.2011.39-5_PR_RM680 |
| 02:32.34 | itsnotabigtruck | ^ that's a downgrade. |
| 02:32.59 | itsnotabigtruck | and yeah...you had to have done so once at least, since you upgraded already :p |
| 02:33.00 | zx2c4 | OH |
| 02:33.06 | zx2c4 | so okay |
| 02:33.07 | itsnotabigtruck | i don't think it was available as an SSU |
| 02:33.10 | zx2c4 | on nokia's site |
| 02:33.13 | zx2c4 | they link oly to 1.1 |
| 02:33.14 | zx2c4 | BUTTT! |
| 02:33.17 | zx2c4 | look waht i just found |
| 02:33.22 | zx2c4 | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page |
| 02:33.26 | itsnotabigtruck | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950/firmware/ |
| 02:33.32 | itsnotabigtruck | zx2c4: go for the 2nd group of links |
| 02:33.35 | zx2c4 | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950/firmware/Linux_OCF_02-6_RM680-RM680-OEM1.bin |
| 02:33.53 | zx2c4 | Wonderful! thank you so much |
| 02:34.00 | zx2c4 | i was looking for the latest version but |
| 02:34.10 | zx2c4 | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo/ |
| 02:34.13 | zx2c4 | the link on there is old |
| 02:34.16 | itsnotabigtruck | that *is* the latest, for N950 |
| 02:34.22 | itsnotabigtruck | they haven't released pr1.2final for n950 yet |
| 02:34.25 | itsnotabigtruck | though the differences are scant |
| 02:34.44 | zx2c4 | oh, so they just dont advertise betas. got it. |
| 02:34.49 | zx2c4 | you might have just saved the day |
| 02:35.42 | itsnotabigtruck | well...they sort of do...every firmware for the N950 is some sort of beta, except for the 1.1 release |
| 02:35.53 | itsnotabigtruck | which came out a while after the N9 PR1.1 release, i think |
| 02:35.57 | zx2c4 | yea |
| 02:36.09 | zx2c4 | you know what's coming in PR1.2final thats different from beta? |
| 02:36.49 | itsnotabigtruck | i think they didn't turn on x server aegis lockdown until pr1.2final |
| 02:37.01 | itsnotabigtruck | and i think the N9 final release might be slightly faster |
| 02:37.11 | itsnotabigtruck | features are exactly the same |
| 02:37.18 | itsnotabigtruck | btw once you have your phone reflashed, incept it |
| 02:37.46 | *** join/#harmattan pinheiro_ (~pinheiro@bl19-56-168.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 02:38.04 | zx2c4 | incept it? |
| 02:38.32 | zx2c4 | watchu mean |
| 02:39.42 | itsnotabigtruck | https://endno.de/~itsnotabigtruck/inception |
| 02:40.10 | zx2c4 | WOAH |
| 02:40.11 | zx2c4 | thanks |
| 02:40.15 | zx2c4 | reading. |
| 02:44.13 | zx2c4 | so bascially t his just signs packages on the fly? |
| 02:45.09 | AndrewX192 | Are the N9 and N950 based off the same chipset? |
| 02:45.32 | AndrewX192 | Just found a reference to the TWL4030 Keypad on the N9 |
| 02:46.02 | itsnotabigtruck | zx2c4: kinda yeah |
| 02:46.12 | itsnotabigtruck | AndrewX192: they're close to identical hardware-wise, yeah |
| 02:46.21 | itsnotabigtruck | there's a few differences, e.g. n950 doesn't have nfc |
| 02:46.42 | AndrewX192 | I wonder what the Keypad is? |
| 02:46.50 | AndrewX192 | Maybe it's just handling the 3 buttons? |
| 02:47.01 | AndrewX192 | It's an X input device |
| 02:50.04 | AndrewX192 | lol, looks like Nokia has been tinkering with X as late as November |
| 02:53.42 | itsnotabigtruck | AndrewX192: that would be the aegis integration, i assume |
| 02:54.05 | itsnotabigtruck | i'm not 100% sure what it does, i guess the idea is to prevent low integrity processes from messing with high integrity ones |
| 02:59.06 | *** join/#harmattan pinheiro_ (~pinheiro@bl19-56-168.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 03:01.07 | AndrewX192 | Oh? |
| 03:01.22 | *** join/#harmattan pinheiro_ (~pinheiro@bl19-56-168.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 03:01.24 | AndrewX192 | I heard people couldn't do dmesg because of aegis |
| 03:01.27 | AndrewX192 | But I am able to |
| 03:03.47 | itsnotabigtruck | AndrewX192: well, that's not related to x...also, that was the case on the early harmattan betas |
| 03:03.55 | itsnotabigtruck | they fixed that by PR1.0 |
| 03:04.20 | itsnotabigtruck | which is important because dmesg is how aegis lets you know what's up when it denies things |
| 03:04.57 | AndrewX192 | Ah |
| 03:05.06 | AndrewX192 | so what is aegisfs? |
| 03:06.22 | itsnotabigtruck | AndrewX192: it's a fuse filesystem that encrypts things through aegis |
| 03:06.32 | itsnotabigtruck | such that they can only be accessed with a particular aegis privilege |
| 03:06.51 | AndrewX192 | Nice |
| 03:06.55 | itsnotabigtruck | do not trust it for high-assurance protection of the user's data, or any assurance for that matter |
| 03:07.19 | AndrewX192 | I'd like to setup cryptsetup encryption |
| 03:07.41 | itsnotabigtruck | that's a better idea, you can't do mounting without inception though |
| 03:07.46 | AndrewX192 | itsnotabigtruck: any idea how it works? |
| 03:07.53 | itsnotabigtruck | so you can't just set up a loopmount |
| 03:08.01 | AndrewX192 | Well |
| 03:08.16 | AndrewX192 | On the N900 I just encrypted the partitions |
| 03:08.17 | itsnotabigtruck | with a normal nokia-sanctioned app |
| 03:08.25 | Enforcer | hmm, bugzilla is closed, and i wonder if the bug i currently have is in there at all... |
| 03:08.55 | itsnotabigtruck | AndrewX192: there's def no out of the box solution for that, yet...with inception it's definitely possible |
| 03:10.30 | itsnotabigtruck | as for how the crypto works...don't ask me :p the OMAP3 boots with a protected aes key that's used, i suppose, to derive additional keys and encrypt things |
| 03:10.46 | itsnotabigtruck | again, don't trust it |
| 03:11.04 | AndrewX192 | Is it flawed (or known to be) so far? |
| 03:11.09 | itsnotabigtruck | if you gain control of aegis (e.g. through inception) you gain access to all encrypted aegis stuff |
| 03:11.23 | itsnotabigtruck | bypassing any access controls in your app |
| 03:11.31 | *** join/#harmattan oberling_ (~oberling@brln-4dbc60aa.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 03:11.34 | AndrewX192 | Does inception use a flaw of aegis? |
| 03:11.44 | itsnotabigtruck | generally there's 2 sorts of scenarios where you'd want it: a) some sort of DRM, b) protecting user data |
| 03:11.59 | itsnotabigtruck | in case b you have to assume the data is valuable enough that someone would put sizeable time and money into acquiring it |
| 03:12.16 | itsnotabigtruck | and aegis falls easily to that |
| 03:12.27 | itsnotabigtruck | in case a, well, that's bad :p |
| 03:13.02 | itsnotabigtruck | and...what else would it use :p it's not exactly nokia-authorized |
| 03:15.44 | itsnotabigtruck | note that above i'm mixing "aegis" and "aegis protected storage" together, since the latter is what we were talking about |
| 03:16.03 | itsnotabigtruck | aegis has a number of different components, the encryption feature is one of them |
| 03:16.11 | itsnotabigtruck | but the access control is the main part |
| 03:16.23 | AndrewX192 | Oh, wait. You are the developer behind inception. |
| 03:16.24 | itsnotabigtruck | everything else stems off of that |
| 03:16.24 | AndrewX192 | :P |
| 03:16.27 | AndrewX192 | I knew that. |
| 03:16.31 | itsnotabigtruck | hehe |
| 03:16.32 | AndrewX192 | I just got my N9 last night. |
| 03:17.05 | itsnotabigtruck | then get incepted, and get hacking! :D |
| 03:17.28 | AndrewX192 | I haven't setup scratchbox for harmattan yet |
| 03:17.30 | AndrewX192 | :| |
| 03:17.40 | AndrewX192 | I have the kernel sources though |
| 03:17.52 | itsnotabigtruck | anyway, i'm not saying aegis is terrible, as some people here are wont to claim, the fundamental issue is that it's yet another security model where a pinprick brings the whole thing down |
| 03:18.11 | AndrewX192 | Well |
| 03:18.18 | AndrewX192 | I feel a lot better about the N9's security than the N900 |
| 03:18.26 | itsnotabigtruck | it will always be able to be hacked unless everything on the system is perfect, and obviously that isn't realistic |
| 03:18.43 | AndrewX192 | N900 has a lot of outdated software |
| 03:18.46 | AndrewX192 | Like firefox 3.5 :s |
| 03:19.50 | Enforcer | angry birds is out of date to iirc |
| 03:20.04 | itsnotabigtruck | the most important thing :p |
| 03:20.29 | Enforcer | firefox 3.5 was best firefox? |
| 03:20.38 | AndrewX192 | My N9 can load engadget.com before my N900 even loads the top ad |
| 03:20.46 | tehdely | Fennec on N9 is kind of unusably slow :/ |
| 03:20.48 | tehdely | but "Web" is fast |
| 03:21.06 | tehdely | also can i just say: big ups to a phone which picks up a piece of music after I scp it from my workstation :) |
| 03:21.26 | AndrewX192 | Oh yeah, that's the other thing |
| 03:21.34 | AndrewX192 | I want to get rid of the fat32 filesystem |
| 03:21.37 | AndrewX192 | And replace it with ext4. |
| 03:22.39 | itsnotabigtruck | yeah, right now it seems like it's fast or featureful - pick one |
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| 03:22.57 | itsnotabigtruck | as for the filesystem change, it's possible, i'm not sure how to do it though |
| 03:26.38 | *** join/#harmattan pinheiro_ (~pinheiro@bl19-56-168.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 03:27.37 | itsnotabigtruck | AndrewX192: oh, also, if you're in the US, get ad-hac |
| 03:27.59 | itsnotabigtruck | it's a tweak i published that overrides the wi-fi hotspot lockout |
| 03:28.27 | AndrewX192 | Do I need inception for that? |
| 03:28.31 | itsnotabigtruck | nope |
| 03:28.33 | AndrewX192 | k |
| 03:28.59 | AndrewX192 | itsnotabigtruck: is any part of aegis open source? |
| 03:29.11 | itsnotabigtruck | also if it works for you, i'd appreciate a QA approval @ http://apps.formeego.org/staging/applications/n9/pr1.0/harmattan/Network/ad-hac/ :) |
| 03:29.14 | AndrewX192 | Do we have any way to add additional things to it? |
| 03:29.24 | itsnotabigtruck | it takes 6 people to migrate a package to the main area |
| 03:29.44 | itsnotabigtruck | but very few people fill out the form so very few things get migrated |
| 03:29.54 | itsnotabigtruck | almost all of aegis is open source, surprisingly |
| 03:30.18 | AndrewX192 | Should I be getting that lockout as soon as I open wifi hotspot? |
| 03:30.24 | AndrewX192 | Because I can open it as-is |
| 03:30.33 | AndrewX192 | Though I'm not on a carrier yet |
| 03:31.24 | itsnotabigtruck | AndrewX192: it gets locked out if you boot while connected to a mobile network in the us |
| 03:31.31 | itsnotabigtruck | so that's why |
| 03:31.31 | AndrewX192 | Okay |
| 03:31.38 | AndrewX192 | I'll test that once I get service |
| 03:32.04 | AndrewX192 | So I wonder if aegis can be extended to have encrypted containers of some kind |
| 03:33.21 | itsnotabigtruck | AndrewX192: it would be best to forgo aegis for that and use a traditional password-based key derivation |
| 03:33.42 | itsnotabigtruck | one could combine aegis with that for a little extra security |
| 03:33.47 | AndrewX192 | Do you dislike aegis? |
| 03:33.58 | AndrewX192 | Like, obviously it gets in the way.. but.. |
| 03:34.08 | itsnotabigtruck | well, in this case we're talking about data protection, not access control |
| 03:34.13 | itsnotabigtruck | and i don't like black box encryption |
| 03:36.33 | itsnotabigtruck | aegis is an elegant system, but you can't rely on it for strong protection |
| 03:38.11 | *** join/#harmattan djszapiN9 (~djszapiN9@81-197-66-172.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 03:38.23 | djszapiN9 | morn |
| 03:38.50 | AndrewX192 | aegis-installing nano (from 'com.nokia.maemo') |
| 03:38.53 | AndrewX192 | o.o |
| 03:39.02 | AndrewX192 | namespaced! |
| 03:39.50 | itsnotabigtruck | heh, yep |
| 03:39.55 | itsnotabigtruck | that's one of the cooler things about aegis |
| 03:39.58 | AndrewX192 | But packages aren't |
| 03:40.00 | AndrewX192 | Right? |
| 03:40.13 | itsnotabigtruck | right, domains aren't really namespaces per se |
| 03:40.25 | itsnotabigtruck | but they're arbitrary subdivisions of privileges |
| 03:40.52 | itsnotabigtruck | so it's possible for one domain to sign a package and delegate privileges to another domain, which has its own signing keys |
| 03:41.49 | itsnotabigtruck | so for example there's a package that delegates privileges from com.nokia.maemo to org.formeego.apps |
| 03:42.34 | itsnotabigtruck | or you can incept a package that delegates whatever privileges to some apt repository |
| 03:43.42 | itsnotabigtruck | note that it won't let you upgrade a package from a more trusted domain to a less trusted domain without uninstalling first - so if there's a new version of nano in some repository aegis won't let you install it over the nokia one |
| 03:43.43 | itsnotabigtruck | AndrewX192 ^ |
| 03:44.00 | AndrewX192 | lol |
| 03:44.37 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapiN9: 5am!!! anyway, good morning :) |
| 03:45.13 | djszapiN9 | 6am here |
| 03:45.30 | itsnotabigtruck | oh, ok, a bit less crazy on a work day then :p |
| 03:45.48 | itsnotabigtruck | has summer time started in the eu already? |
| 03:46.03 | itsnotabigtruck | because i totally thought the nordic countries were in cet |
| 03:46.55 | itsnotabigtruck | apparently not, guess finland's in utc+2 and summer time is not in effect |
| 03:46.59 | AndrewX192 | Your phone is the scene of the hack. |
| 03:47.54 | itsnotabigtruck | AndrewX192: yeah, as in "your mind is the scene of the crime" |
| 03:48.03 | itsnotabigtruck | in retrospect i could have probably done better with the tagline >_> |
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| 04:06.03 | dymaxion | anyone having problems with bug tracker? https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/enter_bug.cgi I get an error message |
| 04:06.13 | dymaxion | "Either no products have been defined to enter bugs against or you have not been given access to any. " |
| 04:14.33 | beford | its closed |
| 04:14.46 | beford | we are doooooomed |
| 04:25.51 | itsnotabigtruck | dymaxion: what beford said |
| 04:25.55 | itsnotabigtruck | they pulled the plug on it |
| 04:26.13 | dymaxion | oh nooo... sorry not caught up on backchat :-( |
| 04:26.14 | beford | specially the dooomed part |
| 04:26.30 | itsnotabigtruck | which says that PR1.3 is frozen, and that'll be it for harmattan |
| 04:27.09 | dymaxion | what a nightmare... well if only they would open source it all fully and at least we can fix our own bugs! |
| 04:27.47 | dymaxion | mine is a daily nightmare... everytime I disconnect from my wifi network, it creates another SSID entry in my network connections... so now currenlty i have 34 entries for the same SSID |
| 04:28.09 | dymaxion | and have to re-enter my passoword like 10 times a day.... if they don't fix that the phone is doomed :-( |
| 04:29.03 | itsnotabigtruck | which seems doubtful due to a) lawyers, b) managers and others not wanting to do it, c) IPR encumberment, d) slashed harmattan project staff, e) possible re-use of some code in new proprietary nokia things |
| 04:29.16 | dymaxion | such a shame... PR1.3 frozen will be interesting to see what's in the freeze. |
| 04:29.18 | itsnotabigtruck | also they tried the whole fully-open-source os thing with symbian, then backtracked months later |
| 04:29.31 | dymaxion | yeah same old mess eh. |
| 04:29.44 | itsnotabigtruck | also that's the danger with buying into 3rd party libraries, it always screws you over eventully |
| 04:30.19 | itsnotabigtruck | of the commercial variety, not oss |
| 04:30.25 | dymaxion | indeed. |
| 04:31.10 | djszapi | dymaxion: if you need open project, you are at the wrong place. |
| 04:31.14 | djszapi | you might wanna check out nemo or mer. |
| 04:31.32 | itsnotabigtruck | that said, i'd love to see an absolute maximum amount of code in harmattan go OSS, there's no reason why things like grob shouldn't be OSS |
| 04:31.57 | itsnotabigtruck | minimal ipr encumberment, little advantage to competitors, allows enhancing harmattan platform, etc. |
| 04:32.17 | djszapi | ofc there is, but I guess not matter what me or Nokia says as usual :p |
| 04:32.30 | djszapi | so I do not even try to. |
| 04:33.01 | dymaxion | yes exactly there are components which could be pulled out.. but they will never do it... where's the incentive for them... |
| 04:33.41 | djszapi | sometimes wonder where people were at the 11th of February. |
| 04:33.42 | itsnotabigtruck | it's also a shame no one did anything real cool with the big symbian source dump |
| 04:33.48 | djszapi | wonders* |
| 04:33.55 | dymaxion | i understand why... and dont mind really... (so long as they fixed the critical bugs in PR1.3) I suspect my bug won't get fixed as noone seems to have mentioned anything like it before :-( |
| 04:34.32 | dymaxion | have any of you ever looked at the Symbian source dump ? |
| 04:34.46 | djszapi | why would we ? |
| 04:34.54 | itsnotabigtruck | dymaxion: yeah, i poked around in it a little, not sure if i still have it somewhere |
| 04:35.18 | dymaxion | is it really spaghetti code? just curious from a dev point of view.. |
| 04:35.23 | itsnotabigtruck | it wasn't super interesting to me because it was for symbian^2 or whatever it was |
| 04:35.47 | itsnotabigtruck | so not very useful for hacking up things on my non-touch e71 |
| 04:36.31 | itsnotabigtruck | but it probably could have been used for heavy duty modding on the 5800 and n97, i'd imagine |
| 04:47.02 | dymaxion | so next I guess we'll have a chatroom for #meltemi at some point lol.... sounds like Nokia just can't make up their minds... |
| 04:49.48 | itsnotabigtruck | dymaxion: well, remember that the sekrit-nokia-os is a replacement for series 40 |
| 04:50.15 | itsnotabigtruck | there's a good chance it'll be the best featurephone yet, but it's not going to be competing with the n9, or the iphone, or any android phone |
| 04:50.42 | itsnotabigtruck | (the nokia peeps don't like it being called meltemi, apparently that codename is classified) |
| 04:50.50 | dymaxion | true... it's interesting for markets l ike india/china... however I can see that the local chinese companies will just provide super cheap local android variants. |
| 04:51.29 | dymaxion | when I visit shenzhen.. it's insane how much tech there is there that people in the west never see... |
| 04:52.06 | itsnotabigtruck | desirable tech, or just all the knockoff products of whatever the in thing is |
| 04:52.19 | dymaxion | at the low end.. chiense have their cheap copies... at the high end they all want iPhones... because it's brand recognition.. just as rich chinese all lust over LV/Channel etc. |
| 04:52.36 | itsnotabigtruck | heh |
| 04:53.43 | dymaxion | i walk past the poor Nokia shop in IFC mall, HK every day to work... and it's tiny.. and near empty... 4 staff standin around like lemons... the new apple store in IFC is 50 times bigger and heaving with people everyday... sickening :-/ |
| 04:56.22 | itsnotabigtruck | well, apple stories have long been a major part of apple's marketing/sales effort |
| 04:56.25 | itsnotabigtruck | *stores |
| 04:56.29 | itsnotabigtruck | nokia stores...not really |
| 04:56.51 | itsnotabigtruck | also apple stores are everywhere, nokia stores are only in a couple of big cities |
| 04:57.00 | itsnotabigtruck | well, were, they're closing many of them down |
| 05:05.37 | itsnotabigtruck | night |
| 05:23.24 | AndrewX192 | I keep feeling like Harmattan is more locked down than I though |
| 05:23.33 | AndrewX192 | I can just wget .debs and dpkg -i them |
| 05:24.15 | AndrewX192 | But my custom management system for my N900 doesn't work on N9 |
| 05:24.22 | AndrewX192 | Because of aegis |
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| 06:22.15 | Corsac | djszapi: indeed, before breaking the glass I managed to scratch it |
| 06:28.16 | beford | n9? |
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| 08:47.14 | gri | Corsac: How did you break/scratch it? |
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| 09:08.49 | djszapiN9 | jonni, ping |
| 09:12.57 | jonni | djszapiN9: pong |
| 09:15.11 | Corsac | gri: scratch: no idea, break: it felt on the floor :/ |
| 09:15.37 | Corsac | grmbl, nokia pc suite, nokia suite and ovi suite don't support n9 and nokia link doesn't support smses |
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| 09:17.03 | matrixx | Corsac: there's a trick how to use nokia suite with N9 here: http://www.allboutn9.info/2012/01/nokia-suite-with-n9-windows.html |
| 09:17.20 | *** join/#harmattan rigo (~rigo@ANancy-551-1-24-91.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:17.56 | Corsac | yeah, I saw that, but the download site requires to register |
| 09:18.03 | Corsac | which I'm unlikely to do |
| 09:22.16 | matrixx | then you're on your own :/ |
| 09:23.20 | Corsac | ok, fwiw toto@toto.net / toto is a valid account |
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| 09:24.39 | rigo | nice! toto :) Mais toto, pourquoi tu a écrasé cet escargot? Mais ca fait 2 heures qu'il me suit ... |
| 09:25.30 | Corsac | interesting, pc suite is able to access sms on n9 but it can't import them |
| 09:26.50 | Corsac | though it can import contacts |
| 09:27.46 | rigo | have you tried bluetooth? But this is not an option for bulk transfer |
| 09:33.57 | Corsac | I tried |
| 09:34.03 | Corsac | but it fails everytime |
| 09:34.21 | Corsac | I tried to push from e71 using nokia switch in “send mode”, but it fails after 22 sms |
| 09:35.13 | Corsac | (well it first checks for *all* smses on n9, about 4000 and then it sends, so it takes a long time) |
| 09:35.44 | Corsac | I tried from the n9 using sync and backup (where you can't chose the direction), it first tries to pull the sms from e71, but fails again after 22 |
| 09:35.47 | Corsac | not sure why |
| 09:36.20 | rigo | have you both on power? |
| 09:37.17 | Corsac | hmhm, only e71 afair |
| 09:39.19 | Corsac | same thing with both plugged |
| 09:39.42 | Corsac | e71 says "sending 22 text mesages" while n9 is still at "initializing" |
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| 09:58.15 | Corsac | ok and now I understand why people kept saying "woosh" when they first upgraded their n950 |
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| 10:07.18 | kozzi | why? |
| 10:08.28 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 10:09.09 | Corsac | because in pr1.2 each time you close an app there's a sound like that |
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| 10:10.02 | djszapi | hey |
| 10:10.15 | djszapi | anybody can give me the url of the powertop debian package ? |
| 10:13.04 | Corsac | not sure if it's what you asked for but: |
| 10:13.12 | Corsac | apt-get --print-uris download powertop |
| 10:13.12 | Corsac | 'http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/powertop/powertop_1.97-2_amd64.deb' powertop_1.97-2_amd64.deb 129384 sha256:b45bb9edc936c658bdb72303d0d49397c859d15aa6bcca9297d1c04abd4581a1 |
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| 10:13.59 | djszapi | Corsac: I need this package for Harmattan obviously :p |
| 10:14.25 | djszapi | "debian package" misled you, so it is the Harmattan ".deb" package, what I meant to ask for. |
| 10:14.49 | Corsac | yeah sorry, wasn't completely sure |
| 10:16.49 | djszapi | Corsac: https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1119 -> they uploaded it to the tools repository. |
| 10:16.53 | _MeeGoBot_ | Bug 1119 maj, ---, ---, ext-risto.lahti, ASSI, PowerTOP is not available for developers despite of the documentation |
| 10:18.35 | Corsac | grmbl, ovi suite 3.2 fails to copy messages to the n9 anyway. |
| 10:18.39 | Corsac | not sure why |
| 10:19.05 | djszapi | Corsac: you cannot run the same command on a harmattan device ? |
| 10:19.41 | Corsac | right now it's connected to a windows box, but as soon as it's plugged somewhere else, I'll do that |
| 10:20.33 | djszapi | I would need kinda asap, so if anybody else can help, that would be welcome. |
| 10:20.39 | djszapi | it* |
| 10:21.21 | Corsac | I don't even have the terminal installed right now |
| 10:21.53 | djszapi | that is strange |
| 10:22.08 | Corsac | why so? |
| 10:23.03 | djszapi | no ssh access, no terminal on the device is a bit weird :) |
| 10:26.02 | Corsac | it just came back from repair |
| 10:26.11 | Corsac | I didn't yet restore all the applications |
| 10:26.19 | Corsac | (especially since there's no button “restore all” :/) |
| 10:27.34 | djszapi | it is two minutes to get a terminal, even without developer mode :p |
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| 10:31.40 | rigo | djszapi, what do you need? |
| 10:33.40 | djszapi | rigo: url of the powertop harmattan package |
| 10:33.46 | djszapi | to download it manually and install. |
| 10:36.15 | phako | djszapi: if you tell me how to get that - Corsac's line doesn't work on the N9 |
| 10:36.36 | phako | apt-cache says https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ |
| 10:37.53 | djszapi | phako: just install it |
| 10:37.58 | djszapi | you will see the url it downloads. |
| 10:38.10 | djszapi | or wait... |
| 10:38.18 | djszapi | just upload the downloaded package, if that fits better :) |
| 10:38.24 | djszapi | min.us or somewhere else. |
| 10:38.35 | djszapi | but print-uris should work also for N9 |
| 10:41.45 | rigo | dp/var/lib/apt/lists/downloads.maemo.nokia.com_harmattan_tools_._Packages |
| 10:42.14 | rigo | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:42.17 | rigo | I meant |
| 10:42.32 | rigo | Versions: |
| 10:42.34 | rigo | 1.13.68+0m6 |
| 10:43.20 | djszapi | this is something not helping me :p |
| 10:43.34 | djszapi | I have been needing an url for half an hour :p |
| 10:43.35 | rigo | djszapi, so if I install it, I get the file in the cache somewhere |
| 10:43.46 | djszapi | I know that, it is one command with pacman on arch to get the url. |
| 10:43.56 | djszapi | yes, obviously. |
| 10:44.01 | rigo | where |
| 10:44.17 | djszapi | /var/cache/apt/packages |
| 10:44.25 | djszapi | or something like that; I am now writing it from memory... |
| 10:44.40 | djszapi | but you do not need to install it... |
| 10:44.49 | djszapi | there is a download-only option for the install suboption. |
| 10:44.51 | rigo | so if I download that package and put it on a server for you, that would work? |
| 10:44.59 | phako | ah |
| 10:45.05 | djszapi | I would personally prefer the url |
| 10:45.07 | phako | "download" is the problem |
| 10:45.10 | djszapi | for future reference. |
| 10:45.30 | rigo | ok, that's different |
| 10:45.42 | djszapi | it is in /var/cache/apt/archives/ |
| 10:45.53 | phako | https://user:pw@downloads.maemo.nokia.com/harmattan/tools/powertop_1.13.68+0m6_armel.deb |
| 10:45.56 | djszapi | but please give me an url instead, I have just realized that scales better |
| 10:46.24 | djszapi | not sure what user:pw is... |
| 10:46.48 | djszapi | I need a working url that I can pass to wget really :) |
| 10:47.31 | rigo | once or for the next 5 years? |
| 10:47.41 | rigo | if once, I will do that in 10min |
| 10:47.56 | rigo | for the next 5 years, I can't help |
| 10:48.05 | djszapi | not sure what you complicate over :) |
| 10:48.11 | rigo | ok |
| 10:48.15 | rigo | here you go |
| 10:48.18 | rigo | gimme 10min |
| 10:48.18 | djszapi | I obviously need the repository url |
| 10:48.28 | djszapi | it should not be this hard :) |
| 10:48.59 | phako | well user:pw seems device-specific |
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| 10:49.40 | djszapi | pacman -S -p wget |
| 10:49.40 | djszapi | http://mirror.archlinux.fi/archlinux/core/os/x86_64/wget-1.13.4-1-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz |
| 10:49.45 | djszapi | this is on archlinux |
| 10:50.03 | djszapi | it should not be any more difficult on any distributions. |
| 10:50.53 | rigo | except for nokia, it seems |
| 10:51.10 | djszapi | it is not Nokia specific |
| 10:51.13 | djszapi | they use upstream apt-get |
| 10:51.25 | djszapi | is tired of getting a simple url for almost an hour |
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| 10:51.44 | ZogG_laptop | sup |
| 10:51.49 | ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck, morning pal |
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| 10:58.12 | rigo | djszapi, I assume you can re-construct the URI from the information |
| 10:58.22 | rigo | the debian URI is http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/powertop/powertop_1.11-1_armel.deb |
| 10:59.20 | djszapi | harmattan is not debian |
| 11:00.05 | rigo | sure and the nokia server doesn't give you an publicly visible URI for that package |
| 11:00.13 | rigo | s/an/a/ |
| 11:00.30 | Corsac | djszapi: well, the url was already given, what you need is a user:pw but isn't that device-specific? |
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| 11:01.27 | rigo | was wandering all the time. Looks like he is looking for a free mirror of the rep |
| 11:01.47 | rigo | and after closure of the bugzilla, it may be time to think about cloud-sourcing that |
| 11:01.52 | djszapi | Corsac: I have seriously no clue |
| 11:02.04 | djszapi | but it seems to be a time sink |
| 11:02.10 | djszapi | to get a package for N9 :/ |
| 11:02.31 | Corsac | you don't have yours anymore? |
| 11:02.44 | djszapi | what do you mean ? |
| 11:03.09 | Corsac | can't you run apt-get install --print-uris powertop on your n9? |
| 11:03.33 | djszapi | I would not ask, if I could. |
| 11:04.20 | qronic | https://qa9recEP:Pat2UGuP@downloads.maemo.nokia.com/harmattan/tools/./powertop_1.13.68+0m6_armel.deb' powertop_1.13.68+0m6_armel.deb 17160 SHA256:3311b65e5f2e714ea13ab07a5d8240448e2fb1b88bb03a75e112ead31f2c0ea7 |
| 11:04.33 | qronic | is that it? |
| 11:04.37 | ZogG_laptop | rigo it's 1.2 isn't it? |
| 11:04.44 | djszapi | qronic: Access Denied |
| 11:05.09 | Corsac | maybe try with apt user agent? |
| 11:05.24 | djszapi | goes back to do something useful |
| 11:06.48 | djszapi | Nokia overcomplicates it, so if someone can kindly update it to min.us, that is probably the best way, thanks. |
| 11:07.21 | djszapi | apt-get install --download-only powertop and then you can find it in /var/cache/apt/archives/ |
| 11:07.32 | rigo | djszapi, http://www.wenning.org/temp/powertop_1.13.68+0m6_armel.deb |
| 11:08.07 | rigo | but will remove tomorrow |
| 11:08.23 | djszapi | thanks |
| 11:09.01 | rigo | if you need more, tell me :) |
| 11:09.15 | Khertan | hum is there a way to say trucate a Qml Component Label to one line |
| 11:09.18 | Khertan | ? |
| 11:09.44 | djszapi | Khertan: use case ? |
| 11:09.50 | Khertan | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/qt-components/qt-components-meego-label.html#details < didn't see so much details |
| 11:10.22 | djszapi | it does not wrap by default, so what is your use case ? |
| 11:10.30 | djszapi | you use richtext or what ? |
| 11:10.49 | djszapi | rigo: it is ok, thanks. I will try to get my device downgraded. |
| 11:10.51 | Khertan | djszapi: https://twitter.com/#!/khertan/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2FXeeDra9Y |
| 11:10.59 | djszapi | this incorrect update to PR1.3 is killing me. |
| 11:11.08 | Khertan | djszapi: when filepath are too long ... it s displayed on two line |
| 11:11.56 | djszapi | I am sorry, but I need to get back to my android development :) |
| 11:11.59 | Khertan | djszapi: the solution is maybe truncated the filepath :), but it should be the view which decide to not display all info not the model :) |
| 11:12.27 | Khertan | djszapi: i use label :) |
| 11:12.35 | Khertan | djszapi: good luck with java :) |
| 11:12.42 | djszapi | C/C++... |
| 11:12.46 | Khertan | better :) |
| 11:12.52 | djszapi | also, I can help later tonight, if you do not figure it out |
| 11:12.57 | djszapi | just ping me tonight in such a case. |
| 11:13.07 | *** part/#harmattan flat` (flat@ok-now.stfu-kthx.net) |
| 11:13.14 | Khertan | will probably be at sport ... but thx anyway :) |
| 11:13.30 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 11:15.15 | Corsac | btw is http://store.ovi.com/content/249452 worth it for jabber? |
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| 11:26.53 | phako | Corsac: if you're lazy and your jabber server doesn't use self-signed certificates and want to have integration in contacts because that needs proper accounts, then yes. Otherwise you need to drop to mc-tool anyway |
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| 12:10.33 | rZr | itsnotabigtruck: hi , sorry i planned to release a new version of redak yesterday but i will look at it next weel |
| 12:10.37 | rZr | week |
| 12:40.07 | Corsac | phako: yeah I'd like contacts integration |
| 12:40.49 | phako | Corsac: well your contacts show up in contacts, but you can't start a conversation from it then. |
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| 13:15.12 | mgedmin | wants upload-to-imgur sharing plugin please |
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| 14:10.36 | djszapi | jreznik: ping |
| 14:11.18 | djszapi | jreznik: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv8el&package=gluon&project=home%3Adjszapi%3AKDE-Devel&repository=Project_KDE_Devel_CE_UX_PlasmaActive_armv7hl -> is there a way to add only one entry in the spec file for the whole project instead of individually for each library package ? |
| 14:16.10 | jreznik | djszapi: I don't get it now |
| 14:16.49 | djszapi | jreznik: what are you not getting ? |
| 14:16.58 | djszapi | my question, the url or something else ? |
| 14:20.00 | jreznik | could you be more specific, sorry, maybe I'm too tired already today :) |
| 14:20.24 | djszapi | jreznik: ldconfig must be run for the libraries ? |
| 14:20.29 | djszapi | right ? |
| 14:20.46 | jreznik | indeed |
| 14:21.00 | djszapi | jreznik: we have 5-6 libraries in gluon |
| 14:21.06 | djszapi | right ? |
| 14:21.27 | djszapi | one library entry with the post and postrun lines consists of about 10 lines, right ? |
| 14:21.39 | djszapi | so I need to insert about 50-60 lines into the spec in case gluon, ight ? |
| 14:22.04 | djszapi | what I am looking for is a less error-prone way, where I can just simply configure that, hey run the ldconfig for each library package. |
| 14:23.27 | jreznik | aha, we usually do not split packages too much, for our purposes -libs are enough so we do not hit this issue... thinking about it |
| 14:25.55 | jreznik | but I'd say there's no easier way (the simple one) |
| 14:27.29 | djszapi | jreznik: we could probably do that too, but existing packages are this way, so consistency is not a bad thing, plus it is easier to maintain it this way. In addition, the audio library, graphics, input and so on libraries might be usable on their own. |
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| 14:32.11 | jreznik | djszapi: I undestand - we usually try to split more on use case basis, so it makes sense but if nobody is using it that way or they are happy, we don't split |
| 14:32.16 | Khertan | rZr: ping |
| 14:32.40 | jreznik | I understand it makes sense for memory constrained devices |
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| 14:33.18 | djszapi | jreznik: maintaining a big package is heftier to me than smaller and well-separated ones. |
| 14:33.43 | djszapi | same if we have different packaging styles for different platforms. |
| 14:34.30 | jreznik | djszapi: it can turn to hell, depending on upstream (but it's the same for the both ways) :) |
| 14:37.56 | rigo | just installing kontact touch and the phone is as quick as my computer |
| 14:38.00 | rigo | just amazing |
| 14:40.19 | rigo | I have a signature check failure and now aegis won't let me install |
| 14:42.21 | itsnotabigtruck | rigo: bug 978 |
| 14:42.26 | _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=978 maj, High, ---, ext-lavanya.alamuri, ASSI, Platform SDK repository lacks APT signature - incompatible with PR1.2 |
| 14:42.56 | itsnotabigtruck | get the relevant apt package lists out of the way (from /var/lib/apt/lists) and install the deb directly |
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| 14:44.10 | djszapi | rigo: that is fixed in the next version of aegis install |
| 14:45.09 | rigo | is the next version of aegis-install already in the repo? |
| 14:45.38 | djszapi | rigo nah |
| 14:45.51 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: oh yay, hopefully that's in for 1.3 then |
| 14:46.10 | rigo | that means this is uninstallable, right? |
| 14:46.51 | itsnotabigtruck | rigo: yeah, it's uninstallable, as long as the package itself is ok |
| 14:46.52 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: no, it is not. |
| 14:47.04 | djszapi | at least it was not approved when I left Nokia. |
| 14:47.31 | djszapi | rigo: but please do not use the Nokia SDK on the device too heavily. |
| 14:47.40 | djszapi | it is gonna be removed asap. |
| 14:47.46 | djszapi | so not begin relying on it too much |
| 14:47.49 | djszapi | do not* |
| 14:47.55 | itsnotabigtruck | rigo: it only blocks installs (aegis erroneously blocks packages that are included as part of certain unsigned repos) |
| 14:47.59 | rigo | hm, kontact touch relies on it |
| 14:48.05 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: removed asap? |
| 14:48.25 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: definitely, as discussed many times previously. |
| 14:48.50 | rigo | so I want to install KDE kontact touch and it installed everything, but not the virtuoso-packages where it says the signatures are bad |
| 14:49.01 | rigo | which is a good thing, albeit a bit paternalistic |
| 14:49.09 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: i don't think you said anything along those lines before, no sdk repo = no scratchbox |
| 14:49.11 | itsnotabigtruck | that makes no sense |
| 14:49.19 | itsnotabigtruck | unless there'll be a newer more up to date one or something |
| 14:52.09 | *** join/#harmattan infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
| 14:52.09 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member | Please stay on topic and no NDA stuff here | Developers : http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | ~aegis-no-thanks | LATEST ~update |
| 14:52.10 | *** mode/#harmattan [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 14:52.14 | itsnotabigtruck | as for the aegis install thing, well that's a bummer :/ guess there'll have to be a patch shipped with a hypothetical cobs-type thing |
| 14:52.43 | djszapi | huh ? |
| 14:52.59 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: the 'signature check failed' thing not being fixed |
| 14:53.11 | djszapi | ...and ? |
| 14:53.23 | djszapi | that problem does not exist for the c-obs repository as said zillion times previously. |
| 14:53.32 | djszapi | so no patch shipped needed. |
| 14:53.35 | itsnotabigtruck | oops, i'm tired |
| 14:53.38 | itsnotabigtruck | i meant CSSU thing |
| 14:53.39 | djszapi | plus, we would like to sign the repository anyway |
| 14:53.53 | itsnotabigtruck | too many things starting with c |
| 14:54.09 | djszapi | is back to his android corner :p |
| 15:01.58 | itsnotabigtruck | well, maybe the signature check failed fix will end up getting kicked in with the inception fix |
| 15:02.11 | rigo | how can I sign this bloody package :-/ |
| 15:03.19 | itsnotabigtruck | rigo: did you try the apt lists hack |
| 15:03.31 | itsnotabigtruck | if aegis-install can't find an apt list for the package, it'll let it through |
| 15:03.33 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: inception fix is quite simple, and has nothing to do with aegis-install. |
| 15:04.28 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: but there was another aegis-install related vuln you already found |
| 15:05.03 | djszapi | well |
| 15:05.10 | djszapi | I know many, but best to not speak about this :) |
| 15:05.17 | itsnotabigtruck | heh |
| 15:05.19 | djszapi | inception was also a known issue... |
| 15:05.33 | djszapi | but we were triggered to fix things when they are revealed. |
| 15:05.43 | djszapi | you know too much to do in general. |
| 15:05.43 | itsnotabigtruck | that's the thing, and i'm actually slightly worried that they won't ever be fixed |
| 15:06.19 | djszapi | so it is really a mouse&cat driven "game". |
| 15:06.29 | djszapi | it would be nice if Elop does not behead the project, for sure. |
| 15:06.35 | djszapi | and everything gets fixed nicely as expected. |
| 15:07.44 | rigo | itsnotabigtruck: no I didn't try the apt lists hack, I haven't found it yet |
| 15:08.00 | itsnotabigtruck | rigo: try aegis-origin foo.deb |
| 15:08.04 | itsnotabigtruck | and aegis-deb-release foo.deb |
| 15:08.08 | Khertan | KhtSimpleText 0.2.0 uploaded to C-OBS |
| 15:08.12 | itsnotabigtruck | Khertan: nice |
| 15:08.28 | Khertan | it s not yet feature complete |
| 15:08.33 | Khertan | but useable at least |
| 15:08.39 | djszapi | Khertan: is it an app ? |
| 15:08.55 | Khertan | djszapi: yep |
| 15:09.00 | djszapi | then please use community or propietry app store. |
| 15:09.03 | Khertan | djszapi: a simple plain text editor |
| 15:09.09 | Khertan | djszapi: ? |
| 15:09.16 | Khertan | djszapi: let before finish it :) |
| 15:09.19 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: i think that's what he's doing, right? |
| 15:09.25 | itsnotabigtruck | (afm) |
| 15:09.43 | Khertan | djszapi: and yes will be available on apps for meego when a bit more ready ... and surely to ovistore |
| 15:09.45 | djszapi | Khertan: you should not deal with c-obs directly. |
| 15:09.53 | Khertan | djszapi: ? |
| 15:10.00 | djszapi | from app point of view. |
| 15:10.04 | Khertan | djszapi: why ? |
| 15:10.14 | djszapi | Khertan: why would you ? |
| 15:10.16 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: ...but that's how you submit to afm |
| 15:10.17 | Khertan | djszapi: i do not understand what you mean ? |
| 15:10.33 | Khertan | djszapi: c obs is the way to submit to apps.formeego |
| 15:10.43 | djszapi | Khertan: app can go into app stores to get wider audience or generated locally for testing. c-obs is imo an overkill for them |
| 15:10.45 | itsnotabigtruck | step 1) upload to home project, step 2) add images and things to it, step 3) submit to afm /through c-obs/ |
| 15:10.51 | djszapi | Khertan: then it is a bad workflow |
| 15:10.56 | Khertan | submit to cobs ... test, promote to apps.formeego |
| 15:11.06 | Khertan | djszapi: did you have a better one right now ? |
| 15:11.18 | djszapi | it should be a simple interface like Ovi or PA store will have. |
| 15:11.26 | djszapi | c-obs is just not an app store. |
| 15:11.35 | Khertan | djszapi: ovi is binary ... not great |
| 15:11.36 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: but afm is an app store, built on top of c-obs |
| 15:11.45 | itsnotabigtruck | also, i thought you were advocating this exact model before |
| 15:11.54 | Khertan | djszapi: maemo builder was a bit same things |
| 15:12.02 | Khertan | djszapi: what s the problem with cobs ? |
| 15:12.04 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: nah, it sounds broken |
| 15:12.49 | Khertan | djszapi: you are always saying that people should not do that ... or that ... but you are never giving the correct solution nor provide it. So go back fixing your android c code |
| 15:12.58 | Khertan | :) |
| 15:13.02 | itsnotabigtruck | :p |
| 15:13.16 | Khertan | itsnotabigtruck: https://github.com/khertan/KhtSimpleText < if you are interested |
| 15:13.22 | itsnotabigtruck | anyway, i think you're right that OBS is a bit overkill for submitting things to an app store |
| 15:13.26 | itsnotabigtruck | but it is what's already in place |
| 15:13.42 | itsnotabigtruck | we do need some sort of better community app store solution |
| 15:13.49 | Khertan | itsnotabigtruck: but yes i agree too about obs, maemo builder was nice :) |
| 15:13.53 | Corsac | isn't what afm is for? |
| 15:14.15 | djszapi | Khertan: I think your comment was rude |
| 15:14.19 | rm_work | Khertan / itsnotabigtruck: I proposed going back to a maemo-builder type solution MONTHS ago, even offered to host it / work on it, but i got shot down |
| 15:14.36 | djszapi | Khertan: but apparently, you are not experienced enough |
| 15:14.46 | djszapi | the thing is that, /many/ app developers would not like to bother with c-obs |
| 15:14.51 | djszapi | and that is a completely accetable use case. |
| 15:14.53 | rigo | itsnotabigtruck, I have done |
| 15:14.54 | rigo | aegis-deb-release readline-common_5.2-2maemo4\+0m6_all.d |
| 15:14.56 | rigo | eb |
| 15:14.59 | rigo | zut! |
| 15:15.05 | Khertan | djszapi: a bit ... native isn't my natural language so sometime i didn't explain mood well |
| 15:15.06 | djszapi | and I /did/ provide alternative ways, so please try to read what people write. |
| 15:15.33 | djszapi | I was at the PA sprint... |
| 15:15.40 | djszapi | I heard the feedback about OBS from app developer point of view. |
| 15:15.46 | djszapi | I heard feedback at many other conferences. |
| 15:15.59 | djszapi | I pretend to defend c-obs, but it does not just scale for application developers. |
| 15:16.01 | Khertan | djszapi: but yes ... dealing with cobs is a ... real headache sometime |
| 15:16.03 | itsnotabigtruck | the major problem i see with appsformeego is a) too many barriers to entry - must be open source, requires personal approval on your account from the meegopeople, requires a decent understanding of OBS, b) it doesn't allow libraries so it forces the same complications of ovi store, without the benefit (wide visibility), c) client and website look pretty but don't feel very smooth |
| 15:16.19 | Khertan | djszapi: i agree on that ... but no other solution todau |
| 15:16.26 | itsnotabigtruck | maybe the 'must be open source' req is a good thing for some sort of non-ovi community arrangement |
| 15:16.30 | djszapi | Khertan: what I mean by "not scale" is the fact it should be a low-level details for them. |
| 15:16.31 | rm_work | i could never get OBS to work for me <_< |
| 15:16.35 | Khertan | djszapi: and ovi store have is own problem too :) |
| 15:16.43 | rm_work | I just built my own libs and packages in SB and hosted them on my own site :( |
| 15:16.50 | djszapi | Khertan: they should get a nifty apps4meego client |
| 15:16.56 | djszapi | without even knowing what is in the background. |
| 15:17.03 | itsnotabigtruck | also, C-OBS and AFM provides no solution for building against PR1.1+ packages |
| 15:17.03 | djszapi | few clicks, done |
| 15:17.05 | djszapi | waiting for testing. |
| 15:17.27 | djszapi | but anyway, I am really back to my android project |
| 15:17.34 | Khertan | djszapi: :p |
| 15:17.39 | itsnotabigtruck | with my calendarrr program i was able to get uploading the relevant PR1.1+ source package into C-OBS working, but that wouldn't fly for AFM |
| 15:17.48 | itsnotabigtruck | because with AFM you aren't allowed to have any external repository dependencies |
| 15:17.49 | djszapi | I can explain it later to you how I see and how application developers see it I spoke with the last one year. |
| 15:18.10 | itsnotabigtruck | whereas for a local build, i just update the packages in my scratchbox and build :/ |
| 15:18.16 | djszapi | disuise /wc |
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| 15:18.51 | Khertan | i didn't see cobs as ideal solution too ... but ... i use what exists |
| 15:18.55 | Khertan | it s like qml ... |
| 15:19.03 | Khertan | hate that things ... but what else |
| 15:19.04 | Khertan | ... |
| 15:19.13 | itsnotabigtruck | well, with inception out, we need a new app store solution |
| 15:19.27 | itsnotabigtruck | one that allows using the full spectrum of permissions |
| 15:19.30 | Khertan | wget .deb |
| 15:19.31 | Khertan | :) |
| 15:19.35 | itsnotabigtruck | heh |
| 15:19.56 | rigo | no, you need some minimum of control |
| 15:20.04 | itsnotabigtruck | but apt is soooo much better than that, and aegis provides an elegant way to install 3rd party repositories under inception's...aegis |
| 15:20.12 | rigo | because look what's happening on android |
| 15:20.26 | itsnotabigtruck | rigo: that's the question, how would it be audited |
| 15:20.30 | rigo | all kinds of trojans sniffing all kinds of data |
| 15:20.42 | itsnotabigtruck | of course you don't need special permissions to sniff all kinds of data |
| 15:20.47 | itsnotabigtruck | in fact you can do most of it with no permissions :p |
| 15:20.49 | Khertan | rigo: same on iPhone ... but shuuuut |
| 15:20.50 | Khertan | :à |
| 15:20.51 | Khertan | :) |
| 15:20.55 | rigo | itsnotabigtruck, you don't need audit, you need accountability and fast reaction |
| 15:21.14 | itsnotabigtruck | rigo: right, i mean in general, how would bad apps be kept out |
| 15:21.25 | Khertan | rigo: and could be the case with any store with poor QA |
| 15:21.38 | itsnotabigtruck | also, one of the ideas i have is to parse the aegis manifest and provide visibility into the package's permissions on the website |
| 15:22.01 | rigo | a matter of reaction: Establish clear legal entity, establish clear rules on how to play, if something comes up, kick app + dev out |
| 15:22.06 | Khertan | itsnotabigtruck: you could fake it, and overwrite it at runtime |
| 15:22.35 | itsnotabigtruck | Khertan: no, because the app's already been installed, and the app can't forge the signature |
| 15:22.47 | itsnotabigtruck | -but- the app could include an exploit of its own, a la inception, and gain privileges it shouldn't have |
| 15:23.17 | rigo | important that rules are set up front so that rogue devs can't complain |
| 15:23.22 | Khertan | itsnotabigtruck: with an other level of inception ... could be possible |
| 15:23.48 | Khertan | until i see source, i consider all other apps as rogue |
| 15:24.13 | rigo | so you're already out of business before you have sold the first app ;) |
| 15:24.19 | itsnotabigtruck | heh |
| 15:24.37 | itsnotabigtruck | well, i wasn't even talking about selling apps, i guess that would = something like cydia |
| 15:24.55 | Khertan | rigo: :) |
| 15:24.57 | itsnotabigtruck | thing is, there's so many iphone users, that there's enough jailbroken iphone users to make a business out of jailbreak app distribution |
| 15:25.09 | itsnotabigtruck | that definitely wouldn't fly with the N9, better stick with free stuff |
| 15:25.17 | Khertan | : |
| 15:25.18 | Khertan | :) |
| 15:26.19 | rigo | but you can also kill the free stuff by introducing vicious packages |
| 15:26.31 | rigo | so you need some kind of governance |
| 15:26.48 | Khertan | and now that KhtSimpleText is packaged (0.2.0) ... i will probably need to wait 2 days again to see it in the repository |
| 15:26.49 | Khertan | :( |
| 15:27.06 | Khertan | rigo: vicious package ? |
| 15:27.43 | Khertan | anyway i ve see that many open source apps are sold on Ovi ... :( |
| 15:28.24 | itsnotabigtruck | Khertan: really? |
| 15:28.34 | itsnotabigtruck | are you sure they aren't being sold by the authors themselves? |
| 15:28.50 | rigo | itsnotabigtruck, I still haven't understood the aegis-deb-release hack and how to sign those two bloody packages |
| 15:28.58 | itsnotabigtruck | it's not that uncommon to start open source and go commercial, or to have an open source release for pros + a commercial release for non-pros at the same time |
| 15:29.12 | itsnotabigtruck | rigo: aegis-deb-release tells you which apt list file matches up with a given package |
| 15:29.17 | itsnotabigtruck | you need to move that list file out of the way |
| 15:29.42 | itsnotabigtruck | that way /usr/bin/dpkg (actually a perl script that's part of aegis) doesn't think the package is part of an apt repository |
| 15:29.44 | Khertan | itsnotabigtruck: http://store.ovi.com/content/252565?clickSource=homepage&pos=29 |
| 15:29.45 | SpeedEvil | It's quite legal to sell open-source stuff - even open source stuff you don't own. |
| 15:29.56 | itsnotabigtruck | which means it won't try to check the signature on the apt repository (which will fail, due to the bug, if the repo isn't signed) |
| 15:30.07 | Khertan | itsnotabigtruck: yep they are seld by they author |
| 15:30.17 | Khertan | itsnotabigtruck: i didn't talk of stolen osa |
| 15:30.38 | Khertan | SpeedEvil: yeah i didn't say that 's illegal |
| 15:30.44 | itsnotabigtruck | Khertan: it's lame to do that but i don't see anything wrong with it |
| 15:30.47 | itsnotabigtruck | not even talking illegal here |
| 15:30.54 | itsnotabigtruck | taking someone ELSE's app and selling it, that's just low |
| 15:30.57 | itsnotabigtruck | it's often legal, but low |
| 15:31.03 | Khertan | SpeedEvil: but seeing it from old open source developper |
| 15:31.10 | SpeedEvil | meh. |
| 15:31.15 | itsnotabigtruck | but if it's your app, i don't see the issue |
| 15:31.19 | SpeedEvil | I agree, of course. |
| 15:31.48 | itsnotabigtruck | also thp must be making bank from that, it's one of the more popular apps :/ |
| 15:31.50 | SpeedEvil | The notion of 'apps' being a profit centre for firms is evil. |
| 15:31.52 | Khertan | look like we are loosing our open source devel community |
| 15:32.05 | rigo | itsnotabigtruck, even better, the same package is in tools. So I will just remove the sdk source and it should work |
| 15:32.08 | Corsac | arf bug 158 is a bit strange |
| 15:32.13 | _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=158 enh, Normal, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, Ability to display Contacts birthdays in the Calendar |
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| 15:32.15 | itsnotabigtruck | rigo: ah, yes |
| 15:32.15 | SpeedEvil | ^for firms that make hardware |
| 15:32.26 | Corsac | (birthday only displayed after birthday is edited) |
| 15:32.29 | SpeedEvil | http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/12/03/09/1243250/microsoft-to-shut-down-app-store-for-windows-mobile |
| 15:32.40 | Khertan | SpeedEvil: like iPhoto .... on new iPad :) |
| 15:32.51 | SpeedEvil | You bought an app through the marketplace? Well - too bad if you lose it. Can't download it afresh. |
| 15:33.15 | SpeedEvil | Khertan: I assume you lnow of the OSM thingy? |
| 15:33.22 | Khertan | osm ? |
| 15:33.50 | SpeedEvil | http://apple.slashdot.org/story/12/03/08/1330236/apple-switches-mostly-to-openstreetmap |
| 15:35.22 | Khertan | lol |
| 15:36.35 | SpeedEvil | (Apple's using openstreetmap tiles with no credit - in short for others reading backscroll) |
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| 15:39.50 | rigo | itsnotabigtruck, this did the trick, thanks, will convey to the kontact touch list |
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| 15:46.35 | Khertan | someone have successfully use dpkg-deb -b (build) on device, complain about some option not available due to busybox |
| 15:46.35 | Khertan | ? |
| 15:48.07 | itsnotabigtruck | Khertan: yeah, doesn't work |
| 15:48.10 | itsnotabigtruck | use scratchbox |
| 15:48.18 | Khertan | :) |
| 15:48.30 | itsnotabigtruck | be careful about using dpkg -b period, that won't generate digsigsums for aegis |
| 15:48.34 | Khertan | times for a bdist_maemo distutils extension |
| 15:48.48 | Khertan | itsnotabigtruck: oh yes i ll got problem with that too |
| 15:49.15 | itsnotabigtruck | and dpkg-buildpackage from a source package is *the* proper way to do a debian package build |
| 15:49.29 | itsnotabigtruck | anything else is hacking around it that's probable to get something wrong |
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| 15:50.11 | Khertan | yeah ... but dpkg-buildpackage on device ... :) |
| 15:50.16 | Khertan | even for only python source |
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| 15:52.01 | Khertan | itsnotabigtruck: you know on freemantle i was able to build binary package for python apps on device |
| 15:52.02 | Khertan | :) |
| 15:52.14 | itsnotabigtruck | it would be cool to swap out busybox with coreutils/util-linux/etc. |
| 15:52.50 | itsnotabigtruck | with inception that's possible |
| 15:52.54 | itsnotabigtruck | (don't do it without inception) |
| 15:55.10 | virtuald | wouldn't it be possible to stuff that in /usr/local/ without inception? |
| 15:55.50 | itsnotabigtruck | virtuald: maybe...might still break things due to origin checking |
| 15:56.02 | itsnotabigtruck | if trusted scripts picked that up in their paths |
| 15:56.02 | virtuald | how? |
| 15:56.16 | virtuald | ok |
| 15:56.20 | Khertan | import thelib |
| 15:56.25 | Khertan | import thepythonlib |
| 15:56.26 | Khertan | :) |
| 15:56.42 | Khertan | a text editor checking the available method of the lib |
| 15:56.54 | Khertan | pylint importing the lib to check content :) |
| 15:57.21 | Khertan | many possible case of ... flash, prey and use your backup :) |
| 15:59.37 | Khertan | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:59.39 | Khertan | greeee |
| 15:59.44 | Khertan | hate obs |
| 16:00.20 | itsnotabigtruck | where's your obs project |
| 16:01.01 | itsnotabigtruck | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=KhtSimpleText&project=home%3Akhertan&repository=Harmattan |
| 16:01.04 | itsnotabigtruck | it's building right now |
| 16:01.07 | Khertan | look like it s not anymore excluded |
| 16:01.12 | Khertan | yep i see it right now |
| 16:01.46 | Khertan | i really like the log : No AEGIS_HASH_FDS environment |
| 16:01.47 | Khertan | :) |
| 16:01.53 | Khertan | we need filter :) |
| 16:03.13 | Khertan | fsck succeeded. Mounting root device read-only. |
| 16:03.15 | Khertan | :) |
| 16:03.27 | rigo | itsnotabigtruck, has somebody already a full copy of the SDK? |
| 16:03.44 | rigo | just in case they close it like they did for the bug-tracker |
| 16:03.46 | Khertan | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:04.12 | Khertan | now need to wait 2 days to test it :) |
| 16:04.34 | Khertan | rigo: ... QtSDK ? or Scratchbox + nokiabinary ? |
| 16:05.19 | rigo | deb http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/ harmattan/sdk free non-free |
| 16:05.35 | rigo | whatever that is |
| 16:05.40 | itsnotabigtruck | rigo: don't forget nokia-binaries too |
| 16:05.43 | itsnotabigtruck | that's where the good stuff is |
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| 16:08.37 | Khertan | #qt-qml is a chan of zombi |
| 16:08.45 | Khertan | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:08.54 | Khertan | and there is less and less discussion here |
| 16:09.22 | Khertan | our #maemo community slowly disappear ... |
| 16:10.00 | itsnotabigtruck | yikes |
| 16:10.05 | itsnotabigtruck | the SDK repo is 3 jiggabytes |
| 16:14.54 | Khertan | :) |
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| 16:18.18 | Khertan | How submitting package works on apps for meego ? someone approve the request on the cobs ? or is it an automated process for testing ? |
| 16:20.10 | rigo | sad, very sad. The only goal can be to get a device in a stable state and hold it for the next 4 years |
| 16:20.51 | Khertan | rigo: ? |
| 16:21.02 | rigo | very funny that nokia refuses to earn money, as the N9 has outperformed the windows phones |
| 16:21.22 | rigo | in the selling statistics |
| 16:21.25 | Khertan | rigo: they win more money by promotin ms phone |
| 16:21.38 | rigo | actually, this is NOT the case |
| 16:21.38 | Khertan | (it s just didn't came from solded phone) |
| 16:22.00 | Khertan | rigo: it s ... they win money with partnership |
| 16:22.23 | Khertan | cost less to win money doing nothing :) |
| 16:22.32 | Khertan | it s just an very short term strategy |
| 16:23.27 | Corsac | rigo: and nobody shown figures about those sales |
| 16:23.41 | rigo | I have seen a report |
| 16:23.49 | rigo | just looking into my history |
| 16:23.56 | Khertan | where to ? |
| 16:24.51 | admiral0 | hello |
| 16:25.25 | Corsac | hmhm, is battery usage working for you in pr1.2? |
| 16:25.52 | admiral0 | feels like coding on lpsmagic |
| 16:26.44 | faenil | where is the QT_INSTALL_DIR variable got from? |
| 16:27.06 | admiral0 | faenil: qmake? |
| 16:27.23 | faenil | I mean does qmake set it when you call it? |
| 16:27.27 | faenil | or it reads it? |
| 16:28.10 | admiral0 | if QT_INSTALL_DIR is what i mean (prefix of qt install) it's set into qmake on buildtime |
| 16:28.35 | faenil | ok ;) |
| 16:28.57 | rigo | Khertan, see e.g. http://www.neowin.net/news/nokia-n9-outsells-all-other-phones-in-finland-during-october |
| 16:29.32 | rigo | and I had conversations from people within Nokia that had a suspicion that this was a global effect |
| 16:29.41 | admiral0 | i love my N9 and i won't buy any ms crap from nokia for sure |
| 16:29.52 | admiral0 | many people think like this |
| 16:30.05 | admiral0 | ms's software sucks on PC |
| 16:30.15 | rigo | and the funny stuff is that they now wreck the ship deliberately :) |
| 16:30.17 | admiral0 | why should it be better on a phone? |
| 16:30.37 | rigo | if the market calls for it, why don't you give it to the market? |
| 16:30.39 | admiral0 | who knows how much ms is paying |
| 16:31.00 | rigo | admiral0, I don't believe in such conspiracy |
| 16:31.09 | admiral0 | maybe ms pays 3X the amount of profit nokia would have with n9 |
| 16:31.11 | rigo | MS has other hardware providers |
| 16:31.30 | admiral0 | yes but nokia is a *major* provider |
| 16:31.39 | chouchoune | admiral0: moreover, MS shit is entirely proprietary |
| 16:31.41 | rigo | they don't need nokia so desperately that they pay them truckloads |
| 16:31.47 | jabis | the metro-ui is quite as horrible on W8 consumer preview as it feels like on Lumia phones |
| 16:31.48 | admiral0 | and would be focusing *only* on ms software |
| 16:32.11 | *** join/#harmattan jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) |
| 16:32.25 | rigo | ok, I did it again, I started a MS firehose.. In fact MS is not as bad as they seem from an interoperability point of view |
| 16:32.44 | admiral0 | jabis: keep w8 out. it's crap |
| 16:32.44 | admiral0 | :) |
| 16:32.44 | admiral0 | rigo: the fact is. they do need nokia |
| 16:32.45 | Clint | plus they make more money off of android |
| 16:32.51 | admiral0 | Clint: ++ |
| 16:33.12 | admiral0 | it's funny |
| 16:33.27 | rigo | but I just abandoned my android phone, because it took too long to show me the button to take the call |
| 16:33.35 | rigo | so I missed the call |
| 16:33.59 | admiral0 | yep |
| 16:34.04 | mgedmin | I've missed many good cat pictures because the n9 takes too long to start the camera app |
| 16:34.17 | nid0 | n9 sales were just a flash in the pan though, huge demand when it first launched from all the enthusiasts that had been waiting for it, and bugger all since |
| 16:34.28 | rigo | even MS phones are better than that, they are responsive and the graphics will improve over time. Not bad, but not good enough compared to N9 and iPhone |
| 16:34.29 | admiral0 | mgedmin: you would have also missed the cat if you used android |
| 16:34.50 | mgedmin | I've an android 3.2 tablet; it's rather horrible |
| 16:35.05 | jabis | admiral0: I just wanted to test the performance on a laptop that currently has Ubuntu 10.10 in it - lower end machine for internet browsing etc - it was 100x suckier than Ubuntus latest (both ran from USB3.0 stick in testing) |
| 16:35.08 | rigo | plus the security holes all over |
| 16:35.22 | nid0 | speaking purely objectively in terms of overall ui responsiveness, my girlfriends lumia 800 runs rings around my n9 |
| 16:35.49 | admiral0 | jabis: suckier? that is? (not native english :P) |
| 16:36.31 | rigo | nid0, as I said, not bad |
| 16:36.35 | jabis | admiral, suck - suckier - ultimate suck :P (non-native english speaker :P ) |
| 16:38.00 | jabis | nid0, I saw no better performance comparing the Lumia 800 with my N9, none at all |
| 16:40.59 | nid0 | I see a vastly better response in a lot of places - one performance niggle that pisses me off with my n9 on an almost daily basis is typing urls into the browser, you type www. quickly and even though the haptic feedback clearly registers all 4 button presses, the url bar ends up with ww., the only fix for that is to wait like 10 secs after opening the browser before starting typing, or |
| 16:41.00 | nid0 | typing absurdly slowly |
| 16:41.24 | nid0 | may just be me, but my n9's done that since day 1 |
| 16:46.37 | Corsac | Mar 9 17:46:22 (2012) tracker-store[1254]: GLIB CRITICAL ** Tracker - SQLite error: database disk image is malformed (errno: No such file or directory) |
| 16:46.41 | Corsac | hmhmh.... |
| 16:50.03 | Khertan | Corsac: onenand_wait: correctable ECC error ... not better here |
| 16:50.24 | itsnotabigtruck | rigo: well, the most obvious explanation is that they don't want people buying N9s and clinging onto them for years, when they should be buying lumias |
| 16:50.47 | itsnotabigtruck | they don't want people getting too used to harmattan because nokia needs them to try wp7 |
| 16:51.39 | rigo | itsnotabigtruck, but that won't happen because the N9 clients would only buy windows phones under life-threat |
| 16:51.40 | itsnotabigtruck | admiral0: suckier = even more sucky :p |
| 16:51.45 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 16:51.46 | rigo | and they know that |
| 16:51.54 | djszapi | RST38h or any other guys familiar with android: ping |
| 16:52.39 | rigo | so now I have ln: /etc/init.d/virtuoso: Permission denied |
| 16:53.26 | rigo | and I don't know the target of the ln intended by the package |
| 16:53.37 | itsnotabigtruck | er, uh oh...packages shouldn't be touching /etc/init.d at all |
| 16:53.43 | Khertan | Hum ... it s take less time to have my package in apps for meego testing repository than in my home: community obs repository |
| 16:53.43 | Khertan | there is a problem with cOBS |
| 16:53.45 | Khertan | ! |
| 16:53.46 | itsnotabigtruck | that's a sign of an improperly ported package |
| 16:54.12 | Khertan | itsnotabigtruck: why ? |
| 16:54.35 | itsnotabigtruck | Khertan: that was @rigo |
| 16:54.42 | itsnotabigtruck | because n9 uses upstart and /etc/init |
| 16:54.44 | itsnotabigtruck | not /etc/init.d |
| 16:55.07 | itsnotabigtruck | a package that installs sysv init scripts isn't harmattanized |
| 16:55.25 | Khertan | indeed ... |
| 16:55.45 | rigo | its virtuoso-opensource-6.1 from the SDK |
| 16:56.09 | rigo | nepomuk needs virtuoso and kontact needs nepomuk |
| 16:56.12 | djszapi | omg, #android-dev is a crazy channel :) |
| 16:56.49 | rigo | boiling I suspect |
| 16:57.32 | *** join/#harmattan blueslee (~blueslee@ip-109-90-73-55.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 16:57.40 | djszapi | rigo: too heavy, almost useless |
| 16:58.08 | rigo | like the soft ;) |
| 16:58.24 | Corsac | Khertan: do you have random reboots too? |
| 16:58.48 | Khertan | Corsac: nope :) But random loss of phone network which require a reboot |
| 16:59.00 | Corsac | yeah but that's free mobile :p |
| 16:59.22 | Khertan | didn't use free mobile |
| 16:59.31 | djszapi | rigo: seriously, try to ask something and follow the things. |
| 16:59.40 | Khertan | i use sfr ... (which isn't better ... with they sucky http proxy) |
| 17:03.26 | rigo | get a different subscription ;) |
| 17:03.39 | rigo | or use free ... |
| 17:04.28 | Khertan | gniagnia ... waiting the end of this subscription |
| 17:04.36 | Khertan | :) |
| 17:04.52 | Khertan | and will make a try to free after :) |
| 17:05.21 | Khertan | i ve an old sfr contract with http and https 3G access unlimited for the price of free mobile :) |
| 17:05.37 | Free-MG | blueslee: ping |
| 17:05.39 | Khertan | (but only 1hour of phone call) |
| 17:05.56 | Khertan | Free-MG: 100% Packet lost |
| 17:06.18 | Free-MG | ? |
| 17:06.34 | djszapi | so any bash chuck norris here ? |
| 17:06.35 | djszapi | =) |
| 17:06.39 | Khertan | :) |
| 17:07.14 | Khertan | Free-MG: don't worry a geek linux joke |
| 17:09.04 | Khertan | bye |
| 17:10.13 | *** join/#harmattan beford (~fercho@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 17:11.16 | djszapi | khertan_: have you solved your thingie ? |
| 17:11.26 | Corsac | hmhm btw I can't edit the voicemail phone number :/ |
| 17:18.33 | rigo | super security, damn |
| 17:18.43 | rigo | I can ln in /etc/ |
| 17:18.51 | rigo | but I can't ln in /etc/init.d |
| 17:18.57 | rigo | and that makes the package fail |
| 17:19.03 | RST38h | Never forget whom they are securing against |
| 17:19.15 | djszapi | rigo: what is the problem ? |
| 17:19.21 | RST38h | HINT: It is *not* outside attackers |
| 17:19.30 | djszapi | third-party app should never deal with /etc/init.d/ |
| 17:19.41 | djszapi | it is quite integrity protected, look for this in the channel log |
| 17:19.55 | djszapi | was overdiscussed zillion times during the last 9 months. :) |
| 17:20.12 | rigo | djszapi, I try to install kontact touch as the off-the-shelf stuff isn't talking to our smtp server |
| 17:20.46 | rigo | and now everything hangs because I can't configure virtuoso-opensource-6.1_6.1.2-1maemo6.1_armel.deb |
| 17:21.21 | rigo | because a script at the end wants to do ln -s /etc/init.d/virtuoso-opensource-6.1 virtuoso |
| 17:21.33 | RST38h | Now, to the more pressing question: Anyone got a .deb for openvideoplayer 0.4.4? |
| 17:21.56 | djszapi | rigo: where does this package come from ? |
| 17:21.58 | rigo | and that gives a permission denied, script fails, virtuoso fails to configure, nepomuk fails to configure, kontact fails to configure |
| 17:22.13 | rigo | djszapi: SDK |
| 17:22.34 | djszapi | rigo: sorry, but could you please clarify where ? |
| 17:22.37 | djszapi | I do not see it in there... |
| 17:22.46 | djszapi | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta3/free/v/ |
| 17:23.02 | djszapi | is it closed ? |
| 17:23.04 | djszapi | perhaps ? |
| 17:23.10 | rigo | deb http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/ harmattan/sdk free non-free |
| 17:23.22 | djszapi | exactly. |
| 17:23.42 | djszapi | well, it should not differ wrt anything in comparison with the installation if you add this to the source list |
| 17:24.17 | djszapi | so this package either works for everybody, or nobody |
| 17:24.25 | djszapi | wrt the source list and key thingie. |
| 17:24.38 | rigo | and it worked in 1.1 it seems |
| 17:25.53 | djszapi | have you actually tried to install with PR1.1 without adding to the repository ? |
| 17:25.59 | djszapi | give me the package url please. |
| 17:26.10 | djszapi | I will try to install it on my Pr.13 |
| 17:26.12 | djszapi | 1.3 |
| 17:26.20 | rigo | and 1.2 has a lot of improved security and thus somebody said: (as also isnotabigtruck reacted) Gee, this is systemd distrib and not a SysV anymore, so you shouldn't do /etc/init.d/ at all |
| 17:27.11 | djszapi | it is not any PR1.2 addition seriously. |
| 17:27.14 | djszapi | it is like that since ever. |
| 17:27.19 | rigo | djszapi, http://userbase.kde.org/Kontact_Touch/Harmattan is the cookbook from Intevation Gmbh in Bremen |
| 17:27.48 | djszapi | I am personally not interested in kontact touch |
| 17:29.29 | rigo | sure |
| 17:30.02 | rigo | dpkg -D10 or D20 gives no useful hint other than that the ln doesn't work |
| 17:30.27 | djszapi | would way easier to verify if you provide the url to me ? :) |
| 17:30.45 | *** join/#harmattan NIN101 (~NIN@206.253.166.69) |
| 17:31.53 | *** join/#harmattan Khertan (~me@92.90.16.203) |
| 17:32.45 | Khertan | :) apps.formeego.com repository not usable on sfr 3g network with ap wapsfr |
| 17:32.47 | Khertan | :( |
| 17:33.10 | djszapi | btw c-obs is gone next month |
| 17:33.11 | djszapi | rzr^ |
| 17:33.30 | djszapi | we should start thinking of our own obs setup soon. |
| 17:34.14 | Khertan | stupid proxy block Packages.gz |
| 17:34.15 | Khertan | djszapi ???? what ??? |
| 17:34.15 | Khertan | seriously ? |
| 17:34.15 | Khertan | didn't see such announce |
| 17:34.27 | Khertan | or maybe something less complicated |
| 17:35.07 | *** join/#harmattan risca (~risca@wi-secure-7315.cc.umanitoba.ca) |
| 17:35.10 | Khertan | ~ping |
| 17:35.10 | infobot | ~pong |
| 17:36.42 | djszapi | Khertan: meego has been dead for ages |
| 17:36.48 | djszapi | and that was the scope of the c-obs |
| 17:37.11 | djszapi | even mer is on a separate thingie. |
| 17:37.45 | djszapi | not so serious since we have a backup, but yes. |
| 17:37.48 | djszapi | life moves on :) |
| 17:39.33 | radiofree | djszapi: do you know if there's anyway to disable ssu on the n9 |
| 17:39.49 | radiofree | i don't want to upgrade! |
| 17:39.59 | rigo | djszapi, http://www.wenning.org/temp/virtuoso/ |
| 17:40.24 | djszapi | radiofree: switch to android :) |
| 17:40.24 | *** join/#harmattan SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 17:40.36 | radiofree | is anyone else having flickering issues on pr 1.2? |
| 17:40.36 | rigo | the problem one is virtuoso-opensource-6.1_6.1.2-1maemo6.1_armel.deb |
| 17:40.41 | radiofree | especially when scrolling large lists |
| 17:40.48 | djszapi | what type of issue ? |
| 17:41.10 | rigo | radiofree, had that at the start, disappeared over time, assume it is building its caches |
| 17:41.33 | radiofree | when flicking through large e-mails, or large lists (like twitter notifications) it tends to "flicker", like some sort of vsync issue |
| 17:42.27 | rigo | don't have that |
| 17:44.10 | radiofree | pr 1.2 is 07-1 right? |
| 17:44.11 | *** join/#harmattan piggz (~piggz@host-2-100-147-33.as13285.net) |
| 17:44.16 | djszapi | rigo: meh it needs ldap |
| 17:44.23 | djszapi | well, it is too difficult to me to verify, sorry. |
| 17:44.38 | radiofree | i downgraded to the previous internal image, i don't see the same behaviour |
| 17:44.56 | djszapi | PR1.2 30.2012.07-1 |
| 17:44.59 | rigo | ok, just forget it, I will ask the guys on kde-mobile |
| 17:49.53 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 17:50.36 | *** join/#harmattan admiral0 (~admiral0@adsl-ull-43-140.48-151.net24.it) |
| 17:52.45 | thp | khertan_, SpeedEvil, itsnotabigtruck: what's wrong with camerra on ovi store? |
| 17:56.21 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 17:56.27 | djszapi | anybody python virtuoso here ? |
| 17:56.47 | thp | djszapi: shoot |
| 18:06.06 | mgedmin | also raises hand |
| 18:08.19 | *** join/#harmattan Khertan (~me@92.90.16.193) |
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| 18:24.02 | *** join/#harmattan Khertan (~me@92.90.16.193) |
| 18:38.00 | Khertan | ~ping |
| 18:38.00 | infobot | ~pong |
| 18:38.11 | *** join/#harmattan teleshoes (~wolke@pool-74-108-147-150.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
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| 18:58.58 | admiral0 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:58.58 | infobot | ~ping |
| 19:12.26 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: "c-obs is gone next month" really? |
| 19:12.29 | itsnotabigtruck | yikes |
| 19:12.39 | itsnotabigtruck | that's...kind of a problem |
| 19:12.44 | itsnotabigtruck | what's going to happen to appsformeego |
| 19:13.13 | djszapi | yes, as I said: it is gone |
| 19:13.17 | djszapi | gona* |
| 19:13.27 | djszapi | meh, who cares about proper spelling xD |
| 19:13.34 | djszapi | I even make the corect incorrect :) |
| 19:13.49 | djszapi | correct* |
| 19:15.27 | itsnotabigtruck | that makes having an independent app distribution point even more important |
| 19:15.43 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo (~Timur@fedora/Venemo) |
| 19:16.05 | rigo | itsnotabigtruck, do you know where I can find out why root has no right to write into a directory? |
| 19:16.29 | djszapi | any arch users here ? |
| 19:16.37 | djszapi | rigo: why would it have ? |
| 19:16.55 | djszapi | arch users: is it okay to remove the darn python3 altogether ? |
| 19:18.56 | djszapi | if for some reasons, you need to do that, like maintainer scripts or whatever, you can always request user uid |
| 19:19.32 | rigo | djszapi, depends, I think KDE depends heavily on python |
| 19:19.55 | djszapi | on python3 ? |
| 19:20.03 | djszapi | that would not be too smart. |
| 19:20.26 | rigo | KDE has not been too smart recently |
| 19:20.37 | djszapi | I think we have been :) |
| 19:20.41 | rigo | but I dunno whether they already depend on python 3 |
| 19:20.44 | djszapi | especially at the sprint the previous days |
| 19:21.36 | rigo | ok, for KDE I agree, for KDE-PIM, one has to be a maso or completely dependent like me |
| 19:21.40 | itsnotabigtruck | rigo: remember that just being root doesn't mean you have dac_override permission |
| 19:21.49 | djszapi | rigo: KDE Pim is weird :) |
| 19:21.50 | itsnotabigtruck | also, aegis has a facility for "immutable directories" |
| 19:21.54 | itsnotabigtruck | init.d might be one of those |
| 19:22.23 | rigo | so the package can write a file into it, but can't do the ln stuff |
| 19:23.34 | *** part/#harmattan denism1 (~mdn@host-109-204-178-186.tp-fne.tampereenpuhelin.net) |
| 19:24.04 | rigo | itsnotabigtruck, does aegis tell me? |
| 19:24.46 | djszapi | rigo tell what ? |
| 19:27.06 | Corsac | you mean KDE SC? |
| 19:27.11 | Corsac | ;> |
| 19:27.16 | djszapi | heh |
| 19:27.44 | Venemo | hey guys :) |
| 19:28.24 | itsnotabigtruck | rigo: well, you could dmesg | tail |
| 19:28.32 | rigo | tell me that it is configured not to let me write into /etc/init.d/ |
| 19:28.50 | rigo | itsnotabigtruck good point |
| 19:28.52 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: /etc/init/ is integrity protected, not init.d |
| 19:28.57 | djszapi | or whatever you meant to write. |
| 19:29.10 | djszapi | rigo: nah |
| 19:29.12 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: ok, i was wondering about that...thought you said init.d was protected earlier |
| 19:29.13 | djszapi | but I told the list here around last summer |
| 19:29.18 | djszapi | rigo: please see the channel log |
| 19:29.25 | djszapi | also, it is quite a simple list in the validator c ode. |
| 19:29.41 | djszapi | Venemo: logging is needed in irc-chatter...\ |
| 19:29.45 | rigo | now -> alert rouge -> incident BBL |
| 19:29.48 | djszapi | pretty sucks to lose stuff... |
| 19:29.52 | Venemo | djszapi, yeah, I got your mail :) |
| 19:30.35 | Venemo | djszapi, I also know that I should upload it into Ovi :) |
| 19:31.03 | djszapi | rigo: once you look into the channel log, please put it onto a wikipage what I mentioned... |
| 19:31.14 | djszapi | apparently everybody likes the read only mode, but not contributing back :( |
| 19:31.27 | itsnotabigtruck | heh |
| 19:31.33 | *** join/#harmattan ajalkane (~ajalkane@a88-115-212-112.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:31.40 | djszapi | Venemo: they can happen simulteneously. |
| 19:31.53 | itsnotabigtruck | yeah, a comprehensive guide to aegis is really needed |
| 19:32.08 | itsnotabigtruck | maybe i'll work on it a little this weekend |
| 19:32.10 | djszapi | if one documents half of what I said last summer |
| 19:32.13 | djszapi | there would be no issues. |
| 19:34.10 | djszapi | dislikes repartionating the system :/ |
| 19:34.39 | *** join/#harmattan blueslee (~blueslee@ip-109-90-73-55.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 19:36.00 | *** join/#harmattan sigmaorion (c800c38f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.0.195.143) |
| 19:36.43 | blueslee | Free-MG: ping |
| 19:38.12 | Free-MG | blueslee: pong |
| 19:39.12 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 19:41.55 | ajalkane | What a coincidence aegis documentation is talked about in here |
| 19:42.10 | ajalkane | anyone know how I could retrigger processing of /var/lib/aegis/restok/restok.conf ? |
| 19:42.56 | ajalkane | Due to some kind of aegis bug, when my app is installed it leaves restok.conf in somewhat messed up state. When user installs/uninstalls some other program after that, it fixes also my application |
| 19:43.10 | ajalkane | So I guess there's some postprocessor for restok.conf that fixes it |
| 19:44.45 | itsnotabigtruck | ajalkane: aegis-loader |
| 19:44.56 | itsnotabigtruck | i think you need to run that with privileges, so do that from opensh |
| 19:45.43 | ajalkane | itsnotabigtruck: I need to run whatever is needed after installation, that means in practice I guess 'postinst' script. Would that work with aegis-loader? |
| 19:45.48 | itsnotabigtruck | also, could you post your manifest? |
| 19:45.59 | ajalkane | though I have no idea how I could use aegis-loader |
| 19:46.03 | ajalkane | yeah sure |
| 19:46.03 | itsnotabigtruck | and no...don't do that |
| 19:46.05 | sigmaorion | Hi there! How can I know if PR1.2 is ready for my N9, and if not, what could I do to get it sooner? I'd really like to give it a try, but I'm not getting the update via OTA nor NSU... |
| 19:46.17 | itsnotabigtruck | sigmaorion: check out my flashing guide |
| 19:46.20 | itsnotabigtruck | and once you're done, incept |
| 19:47.16 | ajalkane | itsnotabigtruck: here's my problematic manifest.aegis: https://github.com/ajalkane/profilematic/blob/master/qtc_packaging/debian_harmattan/manifest.aegis |
| 19:48.03 | sigmaorion | itsnotabigtruck: thanks, but where can I find it? |
| 19:48.21 | ajalkane | The problem seems to be that applauncherd rejects UID::user and that sometimes, not always, also makes my daemon not to get UID::user privilege |
| 19:48.41 | itsnotabigtruck | sigmaorion: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82693 |
| 19:49.47 | sigmaorion | itsnotabigtruck, thanks, I'll give it a look |
| 19:50.09 | itsnotabigtruck | ajalkane: hrm |
| 19:50.52 | ajalkane | Weird thing is that after installing/uninstalling some other problem the privileges get assigned correctly. |
| 19:51.23 | *** join/#harmattan rm_work (~rm_you@2605:2700:0:3::4713:9326) |
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| 19:59.41 | itsnotabigtruck | i'm a bit surprised no one's built a hacked pr1.2 kernel yet |
| 20:01.19 | djszapiN9 | nice my qml test app runs on android without any java/dalvik layer thingie. |
| 20:02.11 | *** join/#harmattan gabriel9 (~gabriel9@31.223.217.150) |
| 20:10.00 | *** join/#harmattan dantesan (~dantesan@200-081-038-230.wireless.movistar.net.ar) |
| 20:10.49 | dantesan | hi |
| 20:14.08 | *** join/#harmattan risca (~risca@wi-secure-5882.cc.umanitoba.ca) |
| 20:14.21 | itsnotabigtruck | this is strange, it seems like a number of people on TMO are having problems where their phone can't be upgraded past pr1.1 |
| 20:14.30 | itsnotabigtruck | parts of the system simply won't actually flash |
| 20:20.42 | djszapiN9 | heh have not taken me long to find security holes in android :D |
| 20:24.23 | *** join/#harmattan Soder (~Soder@53.96.227.87.static.vx.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 20:26.04 | blueslee | itsnotabigtruck: i hope there is a bug for it:-) |
| 20:26.19 | blueslee | itsnotabigtruck: in the bug tracker i mean |
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| 20:38.06 | sigmaorion | itsnotabigtruck, I'll give it a try, seems pretty straightforward |
| 20:38.16 | sigmaorion | what are the chances of bricking the phone? |
| 20:38.28 | sigmaorion | and if it happens, is it possible to recover it? |
| 20:42.29 | sigmaorion | gotta go, be back later... |
| 20:43.21 | *** join/#harmattan faenil (~faenil@131.114.171.7) |
| 21:04.58 | *** join/#harmattan rzr (~rzr@rzr.ww7.be) |
| 21:05.28 | *** join/#harmattan aquarius (~aquarius@cpc5-dudl10-2-0-cust29.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 21:11.21 | *** join/#harmattan jesuschrist (~iop@151.66.172.163) |
| 21:11.23 | jesuschrist | hi |
| 21:11.54 | itsnotabigtruck | it's jesus! :p |
| 21:12.05 | itsnotabigtruck | jesuschrist: have you incepted your phone yet |
| 21:12.12 | jesuschrist | hey itsnotabigtruck <3 we dont know each other, but thanks for inception |
| 21:12.26 | jesuschrist | this means rest assured you wont go to hell |
| 21:12.40 | *** join/#harmattan faenil (~faenil@131.114.171.7) |
| 21:13.10 | jesuschrist | itsnotabigtruck : not yet, i dont feel i need any particular application to run as root, or to load any module at the moment |
| 21:13.42 | jesuschrist | or whatever you can do with it, but thanks for opening us the chanche if we ever gonna need it :> |
| 21:15.04 | jesuschrist | i saw your libreoffice demo |
| 21:16.15 | *** join/#harmattan NIN102 (~NIN@206.253.166.69) |
| 21:20.45 | beford | what demo |
| 21:20.46 | beford | D; |
| 21:21.22 | jesuschrist | running debian as a chroot |
| 21:21.34 | jesuschrist | with a light window manager |
| 21:21.36 | beford | oh nice |
| 21:21.43 | jesuschrist | and the stuff, like libreoffice on the n950 |
| 21:23.21 | itsnotabigtruck | the libreoffice demo? that's definitely not mine |
| 21:23.27 | jesuschrist | uh.. ? |
| 21:23.52 | jesuschrist | ah right, sorry :D |
| 21:23.58 | jesuschrist | alzheimer here i come |
| 21:24.23 | jesuschrist | some dude made some scripts that arent compatible with inception btw :D |
| 21:25.02 | beford | qole's easydebian? |
| 21:25.17 | itsnotabigtruck | yeah...i'm hoping qole will make easy debian / harmchom aegis-aware |
| 21:25.41 | itsnotabigtruck | running the chroot as root is problematic, but running as non-root is simpl |
| 21:27.02 | jesuschrist | yeah qole's one, checked on the forums |
| 21:30.09 | *** join/#harmattan teleshoes (~wolke@pool-74-108-147-150.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:32.52 | jesuschrist | we should make a petition to nokia to open up the closed parts of harmattan :( |
| 21:35.42 | itsnotabigtruck | jesuschrist: yeah, because online petitions are always the best way to get results >_> |
| 21:37.18 | jesuschrist | any better idea ? |
| 21:37.33 | beford | trained ninjas |
| 21:37.56 | *** join/#harmattan faenil (~faenil@131.114.171.7) |
| 21:38.05 | jesuschrist | to kidnap the meego team and force them to code for us ? |
| 21:42.48 | *** join/#harmattan NIN101 (~NIN@206.253.166.69) |
| 21:43.30 | ajalkane | when installing application, does postinst script have develsh credentials or is it only root? |
| 21:44.01 | ajalkane | Particularly, I need to change file ownership from "nobody" to user, and mere devel-su is not enough for that |
| 21:44.54 | teleshoes | jesuschrist pour our souls into nemo? |
| 21:46.58 | jesuschrist | lets hope nokia decides to act e hp-palm did with webos |
| 21:47.07 | jesuschrist | s/e/like |
| 21:47.33 | jesuschrist | could be used with nemo |
| 21:47.33 | luke-jr | unlikely |
| 21:47.37 | teleshoes | hahaha |
| 21:47.41 | teleshoes | yea, right |
| 21:48.00 | teleshoes | harmattan honestly doesnt hav every much in it |
| 21:48.20 | jesuschrist | what you mean ? |
| 21:48.25 | *** join/#harmattan messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 21:48.56 | teleshoes | i mean, i think the n9s future lies in the hands of the community |
| 21:49.11 | jesuschrist | thats a fact, i guess |
| 21:49.15 | itsnotabigtruck | ajalkane: only root, but you can assert additional privileges in your manifest |
| 21:49.29 | itsnotabigtruck | sounds like you should assert CAP::chown |
| 21:49.29 | jesuschrist | but if we could base "the future" on harmattan and its UI |
| 21:49.33 | itsnotabigtruck | or whatever it is |
| 21:49.45 | teleshoes | in the post-pr1.3 universe, i think folks will slowly throw the n9 away or switch to an open os |
| 21:49.49 | itsnotabigtruck | teleshoes: but that won't happen without the tools, from nokia |
| 21:49.57 | itsnotabigtruck | like an SDK that isn't 6 months out of date |
| 21:50.01 | itsnotabigtruck | or more |
| 21:50.07 | teleshoes | itsnotabigtruck; what do we really need? |
| 21:50.36 | jesuschrist | teleshoes : open os like ...? |
| 21:50.41 | teleshoes | meego! |
| 21:50.48 | jesuschrist | you mean tizen ? |
| 21:50.53 | teleshoes | fuc* no |
| 21:51.01 | ajalkane | itsnotabigtruck: thanks |
| 21:51.09 | teleshoes | i mean meego |
| 21:51.41 | itsnotabigtruck | teleshoes: a) pr1.2 sdk, b) pr1.3 sdk when pr1.3 is out, c) source to certain userland apps |
| 21:51.50 | itsnotabigtruck | c is highly doubtful |
| 21:51.54 | teleshoes | yea |
| 21:52.03 | teleshoes | i mean non-harmattan |
| 21:52.05 | jesuschrist | i see what you mean |
| 21:52.07 | itsnotabigtruck | a and b by all standards should happen, but are likely not to |
| 21:52.12 | teleshoes | really? |
| 21:52.14 | jesuschrist | but the UI is briliant in harmattan |
| 21:52.17 | teleshoes | i thought a pr1.2 sdk was on the way |
| 21:52.35 | itsnotabigtruck | teleshoes: it might be...i'm not sure what they intend to release and when they intend to release it |
| 21:52.42 | teleshoes | yea, but its an empty future |
| 21:53.33 | teleshoes | i think after nokia actually walks away, like tomorrow, there wont be much value in the really-quite-nice harmattan ui |
| 21:53.45 | ajalkane | Elop only cares about the brilliance of WP's UI ;) |
| 21:53.57 | kozzi | and fart apps |
| 21:54.04 | messerting | After updating to PR1.2 a cannot access my N9 over ssh. Anyone knows what I need to (re)set? |
| 21:54.22 | itsnotabigtruck | i keep thinking about whether it would be practical to re-do aegis in a more secure way |
| 21:54.31 | jesuschrist | have you checked the ssh daemon to be running messerting |
| 21:54.43 | jesuschrist | ? |
| 21:54.49 | itsnotabigtruck | e.g. rebuilding the kernel with selinux, and rebuilding the aegis installer to generate selinux policy in a backwards-compatible way |
| 21:54.51 | ajalkane | kozzi: yeah fart apps... That's really the only thing I miss for Harmattan :(. My kids would love a farting phone. My MeeGo phones would be the best with that in it |
| 21:54.53 | teleshoes | yea |
| 21:55.04 | jonni | messerting: are you tring to login as developer or as root? |
| 21:55.22 | messerting | jonni: developer |
| 21:55.29 | itsnotabigtruck | because it would be really cool to have high assurance harmattan, with role-based access control |
| 21:55.33 | jesuschrist | we are doomed in a future controlled by android and its sucking private infos aim :( |
| 21:55.51 | jonni | messerting: and you have started the sdk connectivity app before trying to ssh in? |
| 21:56.11 | messerting | jesuschrist: sshd is running |
| 21:56.32 | kozzi | lol google knows too much about me, this doesn't make me confortable |
| 21:56.33 | messerting | jonni: Have not started sdk connectivity app. Do I need to? Didn't need that in PR1.1 |
| 21:56.44 | jesuschrist | how are you trying to connect to the sshd ? wifi ? 3g ? usb ? |
| 21:56.57 | jonni | messerting: as sdk connectivity app sets and shows your developer users password (it changes it quite often) |
| 21:57.15 | jonni | messerting: so if you havent uploaded your ssh key, you need to look the passwd in sdk connectivity app |
| 21:57.32 | messerting | but, my phone doesn't even respond to ping |
| 21:58.05 | jesuschrist | try to connect to localhsot with ssh in the terminal |
| 21:58.12 | jonni | and connectivity app will also tell your current ip |
| 21:58.19 | jesuschrist | it it works, its a connectivity prob |
| 21:58.29 | jonni | so pleasee try connectivity app first and tell what it says |
| 21:59.01 | messerting | What??! "dmesg: klogctl: Operation not permitted" |
| 21:59.53 | messerting | jonni: started sdk connectivity app, still no answer to ping, nor ssh |
| 21:59.56 | itsnotabigtruck | messerting: what? dmesg should work just fine |
| 21:59.59 | itsnotabigtruck | since pr1.0 |
| 22:00.02 | itsnotabigtruck | or maybe beta3 |
| 22:00.15 | jonni | messerting: and are you using usbnet or wifi? |
| 22:00.21 | messerting | jonni: wifi |
| 22:00.40 | messerting | maybe I need to reboot my phone |
| 22:00.42 | jonni | and what ip does connectivity app says, and is your desktop in same c-mask? |
| 22:00.54 | itsnotabigtruck | is there a kernel headers package available for PR1.2's kernel, or is that part of the unreleased SDk too |
| 22:00.58 | messerting | both in 192.168.1.* |
| 22:02.23 | jonni | itsnotabigtruck: you can just open scratchbox and untar kernelsources and say "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" and it generates headers package for your |
| 22:02.31 | messerting | restarting my "Linux" phone, f*ck aegis |
| 22:04.06 | ajalkane | is on his knees, weeping gratefully for aegis, and all the upper level management who decided the policy rules |
| 22:04.10 | itsnotabigtruck | jonni: yeah, i was just hoping for a faster way (and with less chance of variance from the real headers package) |
| 22:04.36 | messerting | :) |
| 22:05.03 | itsnotabigtruck | messerting: get incepted |
| 22:05.10 | itsnotabigtruck | then stop complaining about aegis, start controlling aegis |
| 22:05.30 | jonni | itsnotabigtruck: well dpkg-buildpackage does 1:1 copy compared to real headers package |
| 22:05.42 | itsnotabigtruck | jonni: heh, true |
| 22:06.00 | teleshoes | inception > no-aegis > aegis |
| 22:06.12 | messerting | there is no spoon |
| 22:07.31 | jesuschrist | i agree, aegis isnt totally evil |
| 22:08.28 | teleshoes | aegis is awful because it actually stops users from doing things they want to do |
| 22:08.38 | teleshoes | it would be easy for it not to be awful |
| 22:08.43 | teleshoes | but there it is |
| 22:08.58 | messerting | dmesg now says: omap_device: smartreflex.1: new worst case deactivate latency 0: 30517 |
| 22:09.09 | jesuschrist | aegis is awful because it cant be deactivated, thats it. |
| 22:09.19 | messerting | aegis would be great, if I, the user, was given control, not somebody else |
| 22:09.29 | teleshoes | yea, we're all saying the same thing |
| 22:09.32 | ajalkane | aegis is power. In the hands of people, it can be good. But in the hands of corporations... it takes only some upper level management, and it's a shit-cake upon user. |
| 22:09.48 | teleshoes | the nice thing about aegis |
| 22:09.52 | messerting | all agreed :) |
| 22:10.03 | teleshoes | is that nokia explicitly is supporting openmode |
| 22:10.10 | teleshoes | no-aegis-at-all is perfectly ok |
| 22:10.15 | jesuschrist | plus it reminds me of planescape: torment :D |
| 22:10.20 | teleshoes | its just a really cool feature we COULD have |
| 22:10.27 | messerting | What is this, from dmesg: Aegis: cannot measure file orcexec.XXXXXX (process: camera-ui)? |
| 22:10.36 | itsnotabigtruck | messerting: something you can ignore |
| 22:10.38 | jonni | teleshoes: but there is aegis even on open mode. |
| 22:10.53 | itsnotabigtruck | it has something to do with OIL (optimized inner loops) putting down some temporary executable files |
| 22:11.00 | jonni | messerting: thats is just informative warning, not an bug or error. |
| 22:11.02 | itsnotabigtruck | that aegis complains about (i'm not quite sure what the error means) |
| 22:11.59 | itsnotabigtruck | wooo, now i get to spend a few hours compiling the kernel :p |
| 22:12.01 | teleshoes | jonni are you trying to say that aegis is cool because we can still use it in open mode, or that aegis cant be fully circumvented at all? |
| 22:12.25 | itsnotabigtruck | teleshoes: i think he's just pointing out that enabling open mode doesn't mean aegis is gone |
| 22:12.40 | jesuschrist | just your warranty |
| 22:12.41 | itsnotabigtruck | you can make it gone, though things will break if you do that |
| 22:12.47 | teleshoes | right, i was asking if he meant that as a plus, or a detriment |
| 22:13.29 | itsnotabigtruck | though it's probably possible to replace much of the privilege management part of aegis with file capabilities |
| 22:13.37 | jonni | teleshoes: aegis can be disabled totally in open mode, and even on closed mode if you use exploits. But you lose some functionality on some apps, so you really shouldnt disable it, just make it a bit more permissive and you are all go. |
| 22:13.46 | teleshoes | you lose functionality? |
| 22:13.50 | teleshoes | what functionality? |
| 22:13.55 | teleshoes | i didnt know this |
| 22:13.57 | itsnotabigtruck | teleshoes: anything that relies on any subset of root access |
| 22:14.01 | itsnotabigtruck | or setuid/setgid behavior |
| 22:14.12 | jesuschrist | in fact you should just need the possibility to give true root permissions, not disabling it |
| 22:14.29 | messerting | I see I have no "ifconfig" installed. Is there an alternative? A package I need? |
| 22:14.29 | teleshoes | you mean you lose some nice security |
| 22:14.40 | teleshoes | add /sbin to path |
| 22:14.46 | itsnotabigtruck | lots of things have to be adjusted to eliminate any assumption that aegis is present and will give out permissions |
| 22:14.52 | jesuschrist | messerting : wtf ? reflash the phone lol |
| 22:15.08 | itsnotabigtruck | jesuschrist: s/he's probably just entering it at the terminal |
| 22:15.15 | itsnotabigtruck | the terminal doesn't have sbin in the path by default |
| 22:15.21 | teleshoes | messerting; add /sbin to your path |
| 22:15.25 | teleshoes | PATH=/sbin:$PATH |
| 22:15.31 | itsnotabigtruck | btw ifconfig is deprecated, use ip addr, ip link, etc. |
| 22:15.36 | itsnotabigtruck | granted, ifconfig is pretty nifty |
| 22:15.45 | jesuschrist | never! ifconfig ftw |
| 22:15.47 | itsnotabigtruck | it gives you most of the useful in one place |
| 22:15.49 | teleshoes | yeaaaaaaa |
| 22:15.53 | itsnotabigtruck | lol |
| 22:15.54 | teleshoes | i like ifconfig too much |
| 22:16.25 | messerting | ah, sbin, thanks :) |
| 22:16.35 | jonni | usually I just echo 0x25 to enabled file, and that way I still get all the aegis functionality for hashed files, but can freely run any unsigned bins. But normally I just run it as 0x67, since I dont need to run unknown origin files. |
| 22:18.49 | itsnotabigtruck | jonni: you mentioned on the forums that you already did up an unseal module for yourself...any reason you bothered with that since i assume you can just load your RDC? |
| 22:19.55 | jonni | itsnotabigtruck: well I have one CE device without RDC, (yes its not needed for my other rdc devices). |
| 22:20.05 | itsnotabigtruck | ah ok |
| 22:20.17 | *** join/#harmattan hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 22:20.24 | jesuschrist | rdc stands for ? |
| 22:21.04 | jonni | afaik research development certificate |
| 22:21.47 | jesuschrist | i see |
| 22:22.56 | itsnotabigtruck | jesuschrist: it's something nokiafolks can load onto their phones that overrides most of the security checks |
| 22:23.05 | ajalkane | It's kinda fucked up /home/user/.config is world writable |
| 22:23.09 | aquarius | Just discovered an odd thing in the N9 browser. See http://www.foo.be/hotp/example.html -- a JavaScript implementation of HOTP. The test page shows the same values in every browser I have... except the N9's :( |
| 22:23.56 | jesuschrist | because the N9 is a portable skynet :( |
| 22:25.19 | messerting | But seriously, on my phone, ifconfig says 192.168.1.9, my laptop, which is 192.168.1.14 cannot reach the phone. Can anyone suggest why? |
| 22:25.57 | jesuschrist | can you go on internet on the phone ? |
| 22:26.15 | messerting | Ahem, hm, my laptop cannot reach another server in my home network either. Problem is probably with my laptop. Maybe my router is hijacked x_x |
| 22:26.42 | Corsac | hmhm, it seems I can't edit *any* contact here |
| 22:26.44 | messerting | yes, phone is online, internet works |
| 22:26.55 | jesuschrist | are you in the same subnet mask |
| 22:26.59 | kimju | messerting, just a random though: is your home network using the same 192.168.1.* subnet? |
| 22:27.01 | jonni | heh, laptop using neighbors accesspoint with same 192.168.1 prefix |
| 22:27.14 | messerting | kimju: yep |
| 22:27.26 | kimju | messerting, you need to change that |
| 22:27.47 | kimju | (well, not really, but it is easiest that way) |
| 22:27.53 | jesuschrist | i would try connecting the phone via usb |
| 22:28.27 | kimju | of, actually, nevermind. I though that the usb had that subnet |
| 22:28.34 | messerting | I'm confused |
| 22:28.44 | kimju | ignore what I said :) |
| 22:29.23 | messerting | Doubled checked the access point MAC, I'm on the same, not neighbors :) |
| 22:29.33 | messerting | will reconnect laptop, brb |
| 22:29.55 | jesuschrist | you have no choice but to buy a iphone then |
| 22:30.39 | messerting | jesuschrist: Never!! :) |
| 22:31.26 | jesuschrist | :D |
| 22:31.34 | itsnotabigtruck | one of my TAs saw my N9 today |
| 22:31.40 | itsnotabigtruck | but was disappointed it wasn't a lumia |
| 22:32.00 | jesuschrist | TA= ? |
| 22:32.21 | itsnotabigtruck | teaching assistant |
| 22:32.30 | itsnotabigtruck | i.e. a grad student who does the stuff the professor doesn't want to |
| 22:32.45 | messerting | oh, though it was Temporary Access (ie. sort of a GF) |
| 22:32.50 | itsnotabigtruck | lolwat |
| 22:32.55 | jesuschrist | lolz |
| 22:33.19 | ajalkane | haha... disappointed it wasn't a Lumia? That's a major fail. |
| 22:33.33 | jesuschrist | i love when ppl use so much acronyms because it makes everithing so much TW and a bit of GHYX |
| 22:34.58 | ajalkane | I've been kind of trying to sell my Lumia at my workplace. But those assholes know too much about tech not to bait to my sales pitch. |
| 22:35.07 | itsnotabigtruck | ajalkane: well, he's a future MS intern (or recent graduate hire?) |
| 22:35.14 | itsnotabigtruck | so he wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't :p |
| 22:35.15 | jesuschrist | i offer a bag of chips and 5 euros |
| 22:35.43 | ajalkane | jesuschrist: you could also offer salvation, come on son of god |
| 22:35.56 | jesuschrist | for a lumia ? im not that stupid cmon |
| 22:35.57 | itsnotabigtruck | well, if i wanted a WP7, the lumia 800 and 900 are the best looking ones on the market |
| 22:36.07 | itsnotabigtruck | and since WP7s are pretty much all the same, looks are the main factor |
| 22:36.35 | itsnotabigtruck | though on the other hand, buying a lumia is voting with your wallet that you like that nokia is going WP7 |
| 22:36.37 | jesuschrist | same with android plus or less |
| 22:36.49 | jesuschrist | *more |
| 22:37.04 | itsnotabigtruck | also the lumia 800 was outsourced, even though normally nokia is vertically integrated |
| 22:37.05 | ajalkane | They are... In fact the hardware on Lumia 800 feels better than the white N9 I got. The buttons etc, and of course dedicated camera button. But it's still Windows Phone. |
| 22:37.19 | itsnotabigtruck | ^ maybe the outsourcing produced a better product :p |
| 22:37.37 | jesuschrist | i think that the "start" button kills whatever better hardware it may have |
| 22:37.51 | itsnotabigtruck | i'll publish my kernel modules package when this is finished |
| 22:37.59 | itsnotabigtruck | so people can get building kmods for inception |
| 22:38.16 | ajalkane | Start button? It's just tiles all the way to hell in Lumia. |
| 22:38.54 | itsnotabigtruck | the buttons and excessive bezel at the top does seem to screw up the lumia 800's design |
| 22:39.16 | jesuschrist | seriosly, why nobody made a GUI for the openvpn package ? |
| 22:39.16 | itsnotabigtruck | the n9 design concept was all about the 100% screen, no huge bezel, 16:9 form factor |
| 22:39.21 | Anssi138 | i thought it would but it didn't |
| 22:39.32 | jesuschrist | i had to make a damn script |
| 22:39.32 | itsnotabigtruck | wp7 is not 16:9, and the lumia isn't all screen and has a huge bezel |
| 22:39.55 | ajalkane | Yeah, n800 is just hastily put together WP on the best Nokia design that was available. |
| 22:40.06 | ajalkane | I'd think they will make better fits in the future |
| 22:40.06 | itsnotabigtruck | btw i don't get why 16:9 isn't more common for phone/mobile device displays |
| 22:40.19 | itsnotabigtruck | i don't think 16:9 is a very good idea for PCs, but it's great for handhelds |
| 22:40.25 | Anssi138 | lumia is about the text richness, i don't know do i like the bells and whistles for everyday usage |
| 22:40.25 | ajalkane | Umm... not n800, meant Nokia 800 :) |
| 22:40.38 | itsnotabigtruck | and yet handhelds rarely use 16:9, while it's all you get with laptops/monitors now |
| 22:40.46 | itsnotabigtruck | the zune hd was great with 16:9 too |
| 22:40.51 | jesuschrist | 16:10 is better :| |
| 22:41.07 | itsnotabigtruck | jesuschrist: yeah, imo 16:10 is best for desktops and 4:3 is best for laptops |
| 22:41.13 | ajalkane | I liked some apps in the lumia. But the whole feeling of the OS just felt cumbersome to me after harmattan. So I couldn't bear to use it much. |
| 22:41.34 | ajalkane | Not to mention the total lack of multitasking |
| 22:41.43 | jesuschrist | 4:3 is the actual pinnacle of usability |
| 22:42.03 | ajalkane | And hell, you don't even have a terminal in that thing. In the year of 2012 of armageddon! |
| 22:42.05 | itsnotabigtruck | my dad has the last thinkpad that was 4:3 |
| 22:42.12 | itsnotabigtruck | pretty much the last 4:3 laptop period really |
| 22:42.41 | itsnotabigtruck | and it ends up being more compact than this 16:10 thinkpad while delivering more res |
| 22:43.47 | itsnotabigtruck | as wider screen = larger laptop with the same screen diagonal |
| 22:43.49 | jesuschrist | 4:3 matte display! |
| 22:43.59 | itsnotabigtruck | it's why 13" laptops became inexpensive all of a sudden when the screens went wider and wider |
| 22:44.04 | jesuschrist | now i need one |
| 22:44.19 | itsnotabigtruck | because with widescreen displays 13" is no longer ultra-compact |
| 22:44.43 | itsnotabigtruck | hmm, think my kernel build is almost done |
| 22:44.59 | jesuschrist | how much you paied the lumia ajalkane |
| 22:45.03 | ajalkane | hmm... even with requesting CAP::chown I can't change the owner of the files in postinst. Operation not permitted. I wonder what binary I should request it to, and how? |
| 22:45.04 | messerting | I own both a N900 and a N9. My N900 is perfect wrt to user freedom - I am in full control. My N9 has a VERY nice physical feel, and is quicker. What I want is the two merged. |
| 22:45.12 | itsnotabigtruck | jesuschrist: it was probably the free disbursement for launchpad members |
| 22:45.16 | *** join/#harmattan kurt555gs (~ircchatte@c-98-227-69-71.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 22:45.37 | itsnotabigtruck | messerting: well, with inception or openmode you're still in full control |
| 22:45.44 | itsnotabigtruck | really, the only thing you'remissing out on is the app base for N900 |
| 22:45.54 | jesuschrist | i wish to become a launchpad member of something |
| 22:45.54 | ajalkane | Or do I need to change the ownership in the application itself and not in postinst script (which would be annoying) |
| 22:46.02 | itsnotabigtruck | there's a lot of very cool things you can do with the N900 that you still can't with N9 |
| 22:46.10 | itsnotabigtruck | aircrack, usb host, etc. |
| 22:46.17 | *** join/#harmattan kurt555gs (~ircchatte@c-98-227-69-71.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 22:46.27 | messerting | itsnotabigtruck: what is inception - you have a link? |
| 22:46.30 | itsnotabigtruck | but the N900 couldn't do those things out of the box either |
| 22:46.32 | itsnotabigtruck | you have to give it time |
| 22:46.38 | itsnotabigtruck | https://endno.de/~itsnotabigtruck/inception |
| 22:46.43 | messerting | thanks |
| 22:47.04 | itsnotabigtruck | whoops, it's compiling modules now |
| 22:47.12 | itsnotabigtruck | thought it finished :( |
| 22:47.32 | jesuschrist | the best i could aim for as a sysop is a free ups :D |
| 22:47.52 | jesuschrist | "hey chick wanna see my ups? 8)" |
| 22:48.24 | messerting | itsnotabigtruck: yep, the N900 had very frequent commutiy updates |
| 22:48.48 | messerting | and still has i guess |
| 22:48.51 | itsnotabigtruck | hahahaha jesuschrist |
| 22:49.01 | itsnotabigtruck | messerting: no reason that can't be done with N9 too |
| 22:49.03 | jesuschrist | devs get all the nice things :( |
| 22:49.22 | itsnotabigtruck | i'm still kicking myself for not finding out about launchpad 6 months ago |
| 22:49.35 | itsnotabigtruck | or the n950 dev device registration 10 or so months ago |
| 22:49.37 | messerting | I hope to have a community version running on my N9 within a year |
| 22:50.02 | itsnotabigtruck | feels like everybody else here benefitted from various awesome promotions, and i come in after it's all over :/ |
| 22:50.08 | jesuschrist | im kicking myself for not applying to the n950 dev registration since i heard they gave someone to testers too |
| 22:50.26 | jesuschrist | i could be a marvelous tester holy mary! |
| 22:50.55 | itsnotabigtruck | there was basically no visibility it seems unless you were keeping close track of the nokiasphere and i wasn't |
| 22:51.16 | jesuschrist | this world is basically unfair |
| 22:51.29 | itsnotabigtruck | norly :p |
| 22:51.45 | ajalkane | I'm sure itsnotabigtruck getting a N950 would have been a big boost to the community, and a headache to Nokia ;) |
| 22:51.45 | itsnotabigtruck | hehe |
| 22:51.45 | *** join/#harmattan faenil (~faenil@dynamic-adsl-78-13-109-136.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 22:51.48 | jesuschrist | AND jesuschrist ajalkane |
| 22:51.55 | jesuschrist | best tester on the planet |
| 22:52.19 | ajalkane | I'm not sure about that... Jesus is a kind of forgiving dude |
| 22:52.22 | jesuschrist | best perl bash scripter on da market too yo |
| 22:53.08 | jesuschrist | anyway APC sent me its bullshit magazine and im partecipating to win a ... trolley :D |
| 22:53.16 | itsnotabigtruck | lol |
| 22:53.33 | ajalkane | Ah... who wouldn't want a trolley! |
| 22:53.35 | itsnotabigtruck | somehow i'm on the list for that "magazine" too...not sure if i've read a single one of them |
| 22:53.43 | jesuschrist | lolz |
| 22:55.58 | jesuschrist | i do also have a touchpad and in fact i think harmattan would have been so much better on a tablet, webos isnt that great |
| 22:57.56 | *** join/#harmattan messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 22:58.11 | itsnotabigtruck | btw did the N900 have gui integration for VPNs? |
| 22:58.20 | jesuschrist | never had one |
| 23:00.09 | Sazpaimon | so a friend of mine requested my services to fix her broken iphone screen |
| 23:00.12 | jesuschrist | not having included pptp/openvpn in 1.2 was quite bad imo |
| 23:00.21 | Sazpaimon | immediately the memories of trying to replace my N900 digitizer comes to mind |
| 23:00.35 | Sazpaimon | turns out that you can get replacement iphone digitizers for like, $5 anywhere |
| 23:01.01 | Sazpaimon | and iphones are held together by a bunch of small phillips heads |
| 23:01.04 | Sazpaimon | seriously? |
| 23:01.15 | jesuschrist | hmmm so? |
| 23:01.28 | itsnotabigtruck | http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/08/sony-xperia-s-review/ < that xperia looks awesome |
| 23:01.28 | Sazpaimon | and to get a replacement part for any nokia phone, you have to pretty much get one from a chinese factory directly |
| 23:01.37 | itsnotabigtruck | it's too large though (4.3" screen = gigantic) |
| 23:01.43 | itsnotabigtruck | what happened to the compact phone |
| 23:01.57 | jesuschrist | dont like the desing and honestly i dislike android |
| 23:02.15 | itsnotabigtruck | imo the N9 is right on the upper bound of how large a phone should be, and these days every android phone worth buying is even larger |
| 23:02.30 | Sazpaimon | I like that home row on that device |
| 23:02.34 | Sazpaimon | everything else not so much |
| 23:03.05 | itsnotabigtruck | "home row", like on a keyboard? |
| 23:03.21 | jesuschrist | http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/03/adzero-bamboo-smartphone-prototypes-hands-on/ |
| 23:03.23 | jesuschrist | thats cool |
| 23:04.00 | itsnotabigtruck | argh, still no QA approvals on ad-hac |
| 23:04.10 | ninnnu | itsnotabigtruck: Unfortunately it's Sony. I don't trust Sony enough so that I'd assume they let me make phone calls and install apps tomorrow, too. |
| 23:04.11 | itsnotabigtruck | not that it matters if they're going to tear apps for meego down in a couple weeks |
| 23:04.22 | itsnotabigtruck | ninnnu: heh |
| 23:04.27 | Sazpaimon | itsnotabigtruck, no the home button row |
| 23:05.17 | itsnotabigtruck | sony has a track record of pretty solid products, but yeah, all the ps3 related drama and their media divisions have kinda tainted them |
| 23:05.23 | itsnotabigtruck | also they've never had a very good track record for support |
| 23:05.48 | jesuschrist | by ps3 related drama you mean the multipe hacking on their servers ? |
| 23:05.59 | ninnnu | jesuschrist: The removal of Other OS |
| 23:06.09 | itsnotabigtruck | jesuschrist: and trying to sue ps3 hackers, and ^, and so on |
| 23:06.18 | itsnotabigtruck | generally everything that happened related to the ps3 in the last 2 years |
| 23:06.33 | Sazpaimon | [18:05] <itsnotabigtruck> sony has a track record of pretty solid products, but yeah, all the ps3 related drama and their media divisions have kinda tainted them |
| 23:06.39 | Sazpaimon | despite them being seperate companies |
| 23:06.50 | itsnotabigtruck | Sazpaimon: well, it's all sony |
| 23:07.08 | itsnotabigtruck | sony's CEO is in charge of all of them, and sony's shareholders own all of them |
| 23:07.23 | Sazpaimon | theyre still considered seperate companies I believe |
| 23:07.27 | beford | but they have been allowing people to unlock bootleaders, right? |
| 23:07.49 | messerting | Well, and the rootkit scandal |
| 23:08.04 | itsnotabigtruck | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Music_Entertainment |
| 23:08.09 | ninnnu | beford: Do you think they allow people to unlock bootloaders tomorrow, when someone has figured out how to workaround DRM-stuff illegally? :) |
| 23:08.14 | itsnotabigtruck | SME < SCA < Sony Corporation |
| 23:08.16 | messerting | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal |
| 23:08.38 | itsnotabigtruck | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pictures_Entertainment SPE < Sony Corporation |
| 23:09.09 | itsnotabigtruck | they're all subsidiaries, they all trace up to sony management |
| 23:09.36 | ninnnu | And apparently Sony management hates customers |
| 23:12.48 | itsnotabigtruck | that said, they aren't *that* bad - re the ps3 stuff, they didn't act much differently than any other company heavily invested in console games would and does act |
| 23:13.09 | itsnotabigtruck | there's really no way to completely avoid that sort of stuff |
| 23:14.35 | itsnotabigtruck | yikes, this build is taking forever |
| 23:14.42 | itsnotabigtruck | i just realized it's doing multiple variations of the kernel |
| 23:14.43 | *** join/#harmattan sp3000 (~tt@cs78207043.pp.htv.fi) |
| 23:14.54 | itsnotabigtruck | some combination of normal, debug, ltt, crash |
| 23:14.58 | messerting | Nokia, Elop, WP, Harmattan |
| 23:15.16 | itsnotabigtruck | messerting: hm? :p |
| 23:16.13 | Sazpaimon | [18:12] <itsnotabigtruck> that said, they aren't *that* bad - re the ps3 stuff, they didn't act much differently than any other company heavily invested in console games would and does act |
| 23:16.25 | Sazpaimon | microsoft doesnt sue people who modify their consoles |
| 23:17.39 | Sazpaimon | neither does nintendo |
| 23:17.56 | itsnotabigtruck | Sazpaimon: true, maybe they realized that doing so is a pr disaster |
| 23:17.57 | Sazpaimon | both companies just try to compete with the people exploiting the console |
| 23:18.28 | Sazpaimon | by quickly chruning out updates, and banning people that modify the console to access their special services |
| 23:19.15 | Sazpaimon | and coming out with new services that you can only use with an unmodified console |
| 23:19.33 | Sazpaimon | you know, stuff that makes the company seem like they actually care about the customer experience |
| 23:19.54 | itsnotabigtruck | hmm, i don't have to do anything special to make the kernel package build for rm-696, right? |
| 23:20.06 | Sazpaimon | modify an xbox? Okay, sure, go ahead, but you can't go online with it |
| 23:20.44 | Sazpaimon | if you cant go online, you cant play any multiplayer games, cant go on netflix, cant use fios tv if you have fios |
| 23:21.34 | Sazpaimon | you dont get the convenience of the xbox marketplace |
| 23:22.12 | *** join/#harmattan elemental (~awp@124-171-81-56.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:22.24 | Sazpaimon | basically they do it by making an unmodified console seem more appealing than a modified one |
| 23:22.30 | Sazpaimon | which is, imo, the right way to do it |
| 23:22.47 | Sazpaimon | phone manufacturers should take note |
| 23:22.52 | Sazpaimon | because they do just the opposite |
| 23:23.17 | Sazpaimon | load up their devices with bloat and make a modified, clean version look more appealing |
| 23:23.58 | Sazpaimon | but I guess that have less incentive |
| 23:24.04 | Sazpaimon | they dont get any money from app sales |
| 23:25.18 | itsnotabigtruck | yeah, phone manufacturers have a talent for obliterating OSes they put on their phones |
| 23:25.44 | itsnotabigtruck | for some reason that doesn't seem to apply so much to vertically integrated oses/phones (iphone, n9) |
| 23:26.01 | itsnotabigtruck | maybe they take pride in their os so they don't screw it up with nonsense absolutely no one wants |
| 23:26.30 | itsnotabigtruck | and ms fixed it by delivering an ultimatum to phone mfgrs |
| 23:27.32 | *** join/#harmattan infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
| 23:27.32 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member | Please stay on topic and no NDA stuff here | Developers : http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | ~aegis-no-thanks | LATEST ~update |
| 23:27.40 | *** mode/#harmattan [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 23:29.06 | itsnotabigtruck | messerting: awesome music |
| 23:29.25 | messerting | :) |
| 23:31.00 | *** join/#harmattan beta4 (~quassel@host204-160-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 23:33.38 | jesuschrist | good night ppl |
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