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| 00:25.46 | jabis | Sniper_swe: I already told you - as root "dpkg --get-selection > packagelist" for getting the packages -without quotes of course:) |
| 00:26.34 | jabis | sorry typoed --get-selections |
| 00:27.00 | jabis | and then edit the list to exclude any system packages |
| 00:27.15 | jabis | then when you've flashed |
| 00:27.30 | jabis | dpkg --set-selections < packagelist |
| 00:27.35 | jabis | followed by |
| 00:27.42 | jabis | apt-get -u dselect-upgrade |
| 00:29.55 | Sniper_swe | okay smart:) did the first part but put it in MyDocs:) |
| 00:31.11 | jabis | be sure to exclude the system stuff or you might run into a conflict :) |
| 00:33.11 | Sniper_swe | ok. put it on pc now. will edit file and then flash tomorrow:) 02 30 here |
| 00:35.12 | Sniper_swe | fyi i have spent whole day with this;p |
| 00:35.51 | Sniper_swe | shit there are alot of paxkages to remove |
| 00:44.22 | Sniper_swe | were can i find my " bookmarks" its not in /usr/share/applications as everything else |
| 00:47.55 | Sniper_swe | found them under /home/user/.local/share/applications |
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| 08:44.59 | rantom | So there's no way to file new bugs, easily, to Nokia about Harmattan? |
| 08:46.59 | rantom | Simple bug: no linebreak in Conversations when using Google Talk-account. (Actually, there's one in Swype-keyboard but that functions as Send, as do the two Send-buttons(!) in "normal" keyboard in Google Talk-conversation) |
| 08:47.01 | ArkanoiD_ | would be happy if old ones get fixed |
| 08:47.05 | rantom | Couldn't find that bug, as of yet |
| 08:47.14 | rantom | too |
| 08:47.50 | DocScrutinizer | who should fix any of those bugs? |
| 08:48.00 | rantom | Someone? |
| 08:48.06 | rantom | :) |
| 08:48.26 | DocScrutinizer | someone has no employment at Nokia |
| 08:48.53 | rantom | So I take that as a no |
| 08:49.09 | rantom | Well, not a big deal anyways, just a tad inconvenient |
| 08:49.50 | ArkanoiD_ | if harmattan was really opensource there would be a hope even without nokia, but no |
| 08:49.50 | DocScrutinizer | you might be able to contact nikia care about it |
| 08:49.54 | DocScrutinizer | Nokia* |
| 08:50.00 | rantom | DocScrutinizer: I did |
| 08:50.15 | rantom | "Where did you get that app" |
| 08:50.41 | rantom | The built-in support for Google Talk in Conversations, good job... |
| 08:51.21 | DocScrutinizer | well, I know that missing CR issue from my old 6210 |
| 08:51.36 | rantom | CR? |
| 08:51.37 | DocScrutinizer | so seems Nokia loves that bug |
| 08:52.15 | DocScrutinizer | cr/nl |
| 08:52.19 | DocScrutinizer | whatever |
| 08:52.30 | rantom | I'm sorry but I don't know what that is |
| 08:52.46 | DocScrutinizer | ~wtf cr |
| 08:52.56 | rantom | :D |
| 08:53.06 | DocScrutinizer | ~char 13 |
| 08:53.27 | DocScrutinizer | 0x0A, 0x0D |
| 08:53.43 | DocScrutinizer | colloq >enter> |
| 08:53.50 | DocScrutinizer | <enter> |
| 08:55.36 | rantom | Oh and the best part, "You might want to contact Google for that"/etc :D |
| 08:55.43 | rantom | Yeah, I'll get right on that.. |
| 08:56.35 | DocScrutinizer | well, probably you should use more precise vocabulary for your complaint, so they get the actual issue |
| 08:56.52 | rantom | I did |
| 08:56.55 | DocScrutinizer | ~wiki newline |
| 08:57.10 | DocScrutinizer | ~wiki carriage return |
| 08:57.25 | rantom | DocScrutinizer: I'll clarify a bit: I contacted them in Finnish, I'm just reposting here in english |
| 08:57.48 | rantom | So no issue in that end, might've gotten few wrong words in here, so sorry about that |
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| 08:59.27 | DocScrutinizer | well, 1.3 is definitely meant to be last update ever |
| 08:59.40 | rantom | Yeah, thought so too |
| 08:59.47 | DocScrutinizer | so odds are you have to live with whatever you got now |
| 08:59.58 | rantom | But overall my best bet would be to ignore it and I'm fine by that |
| 09:01.17 | DocScrutinizer | unless a pissed ex-Nokian leaks the *complete* source of HARM, that's probably it, yeah |
| 09:01.29 | rantom | Not going to wait for that, heh |
| 09:01.35 | DocScrutinizer | since Nokia official never will do |
| 09:01.42 | rantom | Nah, not a big deal for me |
| 09:02.01 | rantom | I'm glad that I've got what I got. I'd be pissed if I'd be forced to use T9 |
| 09:02.13 | rantom | So missing a linebreak-button is not an issue |
| 09:02.17 | rantom | (for me) |
| 09:03.39 | DocScrutinizer | you tried satuff like shift-enter, ctrl-m, etc? |
| 09:03.44 | DocScrutinizer | stuff* |
| 09:04.09 | DocScrutinizer | (probably no ctrl on that kbd ;-P) |
| 09:04.10 | rantom | I tried Shift+Enter, didn't work |
| 09:04.17 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 09:04.19 | rantom | Yeah, no Control, heh :) |
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| 09:04.35 | rantom | _Might_ work with the N950 since it has it |
| 09:04.45 | rantom | Not keeping my hopes up though for that |
| 09:06.33 | DocScrutinizer | the 6210 had text templates to insert into SMS. I copied a inbound SMS with a CR to templates and edited it so it only had the CR. Then I inserted it into SMS when I really needed it |
| 09:06.46 | DocScrutinizer | those were the times |
| 09:07.24 | DocScrutinizer | bbl |
| 09:07.33 | rantom | Oh yeah, text templates |
| 09:07.44 | rantom | I liked the quick dial |
| 09:08.14 | DocScrutinizer | indeed, missing feature |
| 09:08.16 | rantom | E.g. press a button 3, assign a person, press 3 again (holding, I think) and calling to that person |
| 09:08.57 | rantom | DocScrutinizer: Thanks for helping |
| 09:09.15 | DocScrutinizer | there also been #02 .. #99 for directly calling that storage place |
| 09:09.30 | jabis | complete src of harm - that would be something x) |
| 09:09.38 | rantom | jabis: :D |
| 09:09.55 | jabis | I guess the guys working on nemo would appreciate x) |
| 09:10.18 | DocScrutinizer | I guess those will appreciate the least |
| 09:10.32 | phako | jabis: ever seen closed source source? |
| 09:10.32 | DocScrutinizer | as they don't reinvent harm anyway |
| 09:11.00 | jabis | too much |
| 09:11.41 | jabis | well teh missing pieces are buried there - anyways nemo is all fucked up |
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| 09:12.29 | jabis | and not in a disrespectful way, just the reality of things currently |
| 09:12.52 | rantom | Good save |
| 09:13.22 | DocScrutinizer | yeh, since nemo/mer turned from a cooperative into a antivendor port project, I guess that much |
| 09:14.42 | DocScrutinizer | at least my take on it, extrapolating Nokia's general FU-policy |
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| 09:16.06 | DocScrutinizer | can't see much support for mer/nemo the way it's been like 1.5 years ago |
| 09:16.16 | DocScrutinizer | from NOK |
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| 09:17.42 | jabis | gah - these anti-histamin tablets makes one drowsy |
| 09:18.54 | DocScrutinizer | duh, which ones? |
| 09:20.24 | jabis | telfast or whatever these were - new tabs, because zyrtec and histex didn't just cut it this summer |
| 09:23.11 | jabis | router cutting the connection every nth minute - wth is happening again |
| 09:26.22 | DocScrutinizer | zyrtec losing effect after one season, in my experience |
| 09:28.43 | DocScrutinizer | that's why I'm asking for alternatives |
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| 09:32.09 | jabis | this telfast works ok, just a lot more drowsy than hte comparison brands |
| 09:38.43 | niwakame | 30°C inside |
| 09:38.48 | niwakame | yeah.... |
| 09:38.54 | niwakame | Hi everybody :) |
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| 10:43.55 | Avengence | zrytec never did work well for me, just added side effects. theres a successor to it that is supossed to be better. I tried it not knowing it was related, but its crap. the only one thats any good is claritin. to be fully effective for me, I need the -D variant with pseduphedrine. impossible to get now, fuckers |
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| 13:37.43 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions | Customers help customers on #N9 | Please stay on topic and no NDA stuff here | Developers : http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | ~aegis-no-thanks | LATEST ~update | http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/14/nokia-reportedly-scraps-meltemi/ |
| 13:37.43 | *** mode/#harmattan [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 13:37.46 | alterego | I wonder what Stallman would think about a closed filesystem with GPL components on it in a proprietary installation :) |
| 13:38.03 | rigo | and that there is a difference between LGPL and GPL |
| 13:38.22 | Jaffa | rigo: And it's clear what Nokia's lawyers believe are their responsibilities with the GPLv2 components used in all versions of Maemo. And any other embedded system using Linux which has closed source components but is upgradable |
| 13:38.36 | alterego | rigo: of course there is a difference, but the discussion earlier was basically saying regardless of LGPL and GPL, it's illegal to create an image which combines these components with closed components. |
| 13:39.03 | Jaffa | Whereas alterego's argument was that a filesystem image is no different to a zip file, CD or floppy disk. |
| 13:39.09 | Jaffa | Hell, an ISO *is* a filesystem image. |
| 13:39.34 | Jaffa | So if this was an argument which held water, no GPL-incompatible software could be included in a Linux distro. |
| 13:39.39 | rigo | We can't decide the question here, because we lack information. But in case somebody is closing down and others want to continue, it may be worthwhile to explore certain path |
| 13:40.58 | rigo | Jaffa, they were talking past each other. Only the fact that something is just baked together in a filesystem image is probably not creating sufficient proximity |
| 13:41.45 | rigo | having a system tied very close so that the proprietary components are not mere applications may have a different result |
| 13:42.18 | rigo | alterego was talking about the first, Avengence was talking about the second |
| 13:43.37 | Jaffa | If only he could give an example of what he was talking about, then, rather than abstract terms (and also seemed to be saying something about taking the firmware image as a data segment and putting that in a proprietary/GPL program (e.g. a flasher or self-extracting zip?)) |
| 13:43.40 | rigo | again, all this will turn into the center of attention only, if there is a community that wants to continue |
| 13:44.30 | Jaffa | Not really. There's a pattern for CSSU for Fremantle, with Open Mode or Inception, that can be done for Harmattan. But fewer of the interesting packages are open source on Harmattan (e.g. the buggy apps) |
| 13:45.01 | Jaffa | If someone had the source to those and distributed enhancements/collaborated anonymously, they're not going to care about GPL licensing when they don't care about (c) |
| 13:46.25 | rigo | but this will necessarily remain a marginal geek thing nobody cares about (if sane) Only starting a certain scale, one has to care |
| 13:47.07 | rigo | Jaffa, there is no doubt that you can run proprietary applications on a harmattan system |
| 13:47.23 | rigo | the question is rather if the system itself can have blind spots |
| 13:49.04 | rigo | I think it can, but the question is tricky and at the making, the devs had to take good care not to trespass certain lines. As I don't believe in devs taking care of lines, I believe that if searched with due diligence, we can shade some light on some of the blind spots (not all) |
| 13:51.18 | rigo | but this is a lot of effort and should only be done if nokia abandons completely (I don't see that happening yet) and the only action remains to block the community. In this case, there is a certain legitimacy in starting to look closer into what can be opened up with the tin-opener |
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| 14:00.29 | azeem | rigo: I would assume that things like the Twitter and Facebook apps cannot be opened by Nokia even if they would like due to NDAs |
| 14:01.07 | azeem | same might be the case for Drive |
| 14:04.27 | Jaffa | azeem: Facebook, maybe, since the account plugin accesses contact info which isn't publicly available via its APIs. Twitter, can't see why. But it costs money to open, and Nokia's default became "closed UI to differentiate" |
| 14:04.43 | azeem | yeah |
| 14:04.52 | Jaffa | Unfortunately, Modest on Fremantle only got good after the patches for bottom-posting and attribution lines got merged in the CSSU. |
| 14:04.59 | ZogG_laptop | life is just unfair |
| 14:05.08 | ZogG_laptop | most unlogic things are more profitable |
| 14:05.15 | Jaffa | Since that's unlikely to happen for Harmattan, there's no decent email client available |
| 14:05.31 | Jaffa | ZogG_laptop: eh? |
| 14:06.11 | alterego | I kind of doubt Nokia would actually do something if someone was to drop all of the Harmattan sources. |
| 14:06.21 | ZogG_laptop | btw cn't those apps from freemantle be ported to harm btw |
| 14:06.23 | alterego | Unless they got screwed by someone claiming IP infringement. |
| 14:06.36 | alterego | Then they'd have a serious sandy vag |
| 14:06.41 | azeem | ZogG_laptop: they are GTK |
| 14:06.41 | ZogG_laptop | Jaffa: about opening source cost money thing and so on... |
| 14:07.05 | ZogG_laptop | azeem: surely you need to re-write gui to make harmattan like |
| 14:07.19 | azeem | I guess they could be ported, but would look fugly without lots of themeing and hog resources |
| 14:07.32 | azeem | ZogG_laptop: ok, but that's not porting |
| 14:07.45 | azeem | well, splitting hairs now maybe |
| 14:08.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | dang, missed an opportunity for a kickban :-P |
| 14:08.13 | Jaffa | alterego: My gut agrees, though of course one wouldn't endorse it. |
| 14:08.19 | ZogG_laptop | azeem: depends if it's only UI app or whole thing |
| 14:08.21 | alterego | Indeed |
| 14:08.32 | alterego | Jaffa: tbh, do you even think Nokia would notice? ;) |
| 14:08.41 | rigo | so no decent email client in view for N9? |
| 14:08.44 | alterego | Or anyone else for that matter :) |
| 14:08.55 | ZogG_laptop | azeem: some apps have core without UI and UI as a layer, and there are apps where it is more mixed |
| 14:09.01 | Jaffa | However, I'd be surprised (if the Harmattan ex-Nokians really used an N9 as their main device) if we didn't see a code drop and some unofficial tweaked binaries/packages/sources within the next year |
| 14:09.04 | alterego | Unfortunately, Twitter is one of the few things I don't have the source for. |
| 14:09.34 | alterego | Well, one can hope |
| 14:09.49 | rigo | alterego, there is a nice app for status-net that can be extended to talk to the twitter API |
| 14:09.55 | Jaffa | However, if they're all using Android devices, WP[78] or iOS, they've no incentive to try and kickstart an underground movement in improvements. |
| 14:10.13 | Jaffa | alterego: leinir might |
| 14:10.19 | azeem | the twitter app looks miles ahead of status.net though |
| 14:10.33 | rigo | Jaffa, I'm using this exactly because I don't want to use android for various reasons, one being privacy |
| 14:10.34 | alterego | Jaffa: in my past experience, most ex-Nokians around this community end up pushing Mer, or B2G, etc. |
| 14:13.46 | rigo | azeem: sure, but I think it is a solid basis. AND the twitter app can't do status.net or identi.ca. Mustard on android did both pretty well |
| 14:14.16 | rigo | so if twitter goes commercial, there will be a quest for other options |
| 14:14.20 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: i think frals may have code for twitter =) |
| 14:14.40 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: but why do you tell you have sources? |
| 14:14.41 | Jaffa | alterego: Yeah. I like to hack on things I can use day-to-day too. There's a tipping point of usability :-( |
| 14:14.59 | ZogG_laptop | it just make it more complicated to leak them and make us feel jealous |
| 14:15.48 | frals | Jaffa: it would be quite easy to trace back code drops way to close to the source of the leak for it to be worth it, I gather... |
| 14:16.04 | rigo | have to go, cu later |
| 14:16.22 | Jaffa | frals: Oh, really? Somehow watermarked? Or just very tightly controlled access? |
| 14:16.39 | frals | theres only x person having access now, and if any recent versions leaked.. well ;) |
| 14:16.49 | Jaffa | also wonders about those Meltemi source repositories deleted ahead of shutdown announcement. Surely someone had a checkout... |
| 14:17.10 | Jaffa | frals: g'point |
| 14:17.14 | *** join/#harmattan sigmaorion (ce390376@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.57.3.118) |
| 14:17.18 | ZogG_laptop | frals: recent version? i think even 1.1 would be good enuf |
| 14:17.30 | frals | anyway, at least the apps related to third parties are probably not closed due to nokia wanting to differentiate but due to contracts with the third parties |
| 14:17.39 | ZogG_laptop | and everythink like 1.2 and 1.3 can be re-written |
| 14:17.41 | alterego | ZogG_laptop: why not? And Jaffa asked :P |
| 14:18.13 | frals | ZogG_laptop: at least for the applications ive been involved in, the changes are huge vs old versions |
| 14:18.24 | alterego | I didn't have access to Meltemi unfortunately, I have no idea what went on there :) |
| 14:18.38 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: why not what? to say? exactly why would make just jelaous ? |
| 14:19.04 | alterego | ZogG_laptop: well, I don't have Twitter sources ;) |
| 14:19.05 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: so you are nokia or you got it your ways? |
| 14:19.20 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: i hope you do the right thing |
| 14:19.27 | sigmaorion | hi there!!! |
| 14:19.27 | alterego | I had a sub-contract which was for Harmattan maintenance until PR1.3 |
| 14:19.35 | sigmaorion | anybody here got PR1.3 OTA? |
| 14:19.40 | Jaffa | sigmaorion: Yes. |
| 14:19.48 | alterego | sigmaorion: my N9 updated yesterday. |
| 14:19.55 | Jaffa | Mine updated on Tuesday |
| 14:19.56 | ZogG_laptop | sigmaorion: most people |
| 14:20.04 | sigmaorion | Jaffa, what was your previous firmware? |
| 14:20.12 | alterego | 1.2? :) |
| 14:20.17 | azeem | sigmaorion: maybe state your problem? |
| 14:20.24 | alterego | I've really missed having external monitor. |
| 14:20.27 | sigmaorion | yeap, hehe, I mean, what flavor? |
| 14:20.37 | sigmaorion | branded, debranded? |
| 14:20.42 | sigmaorion | from what area? |
| 14:20.47 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: i don't think you would leak it, but keep the copy safe |
| 14:21.13 | sigmaorion | azeem, no problema, actually, just wainting for my update, but nothing yet... |
| 14:21.14 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: although you saying it publicly may make you warn to delete it |
| 14:21.22 | Jaffa | sigmaorion: PR1.2 as alterego said |
| 14:21.28 | Tronic | What version control system does Nokia use? |
| 14:21.31 | Jaffa | sigmaorion: Oh, global variant I think |
| 14:21.32 | azeem | sigmaorion: you can flash it yourself if you can't wait |
| 14:21.34 | ZogG_laptop | sigmaorion: flash it than |
| 14:21.40 | Tronic | If CVS or SVN, history is lost :/ |
| 14:22.08 | Tronic | Unless someone uses git-svn anyway, like I always do on projects still using SVN. |
| 14:22.47 | Tronic | (git-svn keeps full revision history locally, in a git repository, but speaks SVN to the server) |
| 14:22.59 | alterego | Tronic: they used git and svn mostly for what I was involved with. |
| 14:23.07 | sigmaorion | Jaffa, azeem, ZogG_laptop, yeap, I think I'm gonna flash, but I flashed with global variant 1.2 last time, so I thought I would get 1.3 right away this time... |
| 14:23.28 | alterego | You have to understand that most of Maemo/MeeGo was developed by open-source enthusiasts inside Nokia. So most of the stuff was basically what you and I would use. |
| 14:24.02 | ZogG_laptop | sigmaorion: maybe you didn't as i used ota first day and i also flashed last time with 001 global |
| 14:24.17 | Tronic | Getting sources to Maps and Drive would be quite crucial for long term support. |
| 14:24.50 | Tronic | Most other applications could be rewritten from scratch but navigation is too difficult for the community to accomplish. |
| 14:24.51 | alterego | I have Maps *cough* |
| 14:24.58 | Tronic | Good :) |
| 14:25.10 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: we got your point |
| 14:25.16 | alterego | But Maps is Nokia IP I believe, they'd probably be more pissed if people started modding that. |
| 14:25.19 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: but you would do nothing |
| 14:25.26 | sigmaorion | ZogG_laptop, I'm pretty sure I did!! In fact I did that because I didn't get PR1.2 before, so I flashed my phone... |
| 14:25.35 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: so what is the point to repeat it all over again =) |
| 14:25.59 | azeem | ZogG_laptop: alterego just volunteered to do Maps long term support |
| 14:26.00 | Tronic | alterego: Doesn't that apply to every other piece of the software, too? |
| 14:26.02 | alterego | ZogG_laptop: just to make you sandy? :P |
| 14:26.10 | ZogG_laptop | i think google maps is better =P |
| 14:26.37 | azeem | Tronic: IP in the sense that they use it elsewhere as well |
| 14:26.39 | sigmaorion | anyway... are there any release notes for PR1.3 with a list of the goodies!? I couldn't find it! |
| 14:26.44 | azeem | I guess |
| 14:27.00 | azeem | there are no goodies, just bug fixes |
| 14:27.03 | ZogG_laptop | azeem: you lost his point saying he would do nothing about that. he is just pissing off us for lols =\ |
| 14:27.13 | azeem | sigmaorion: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1230913&postcount=1 |
| 14:27.30 | sigmaorion | azeem, thanks a lot! |
| 14:27.40 | Jaffa | Tronic: Email too. Good mobile email clients are hard; and there's a lot of effort to get to a level which is decent until you can start fixing things like quoting styles, attribution etc. |
| 14:27.58 | ZogG_laptop | sigmaorion: few changes most bugfixes, no realchange log as even team members do not know if their patches included ( saw on TMO ex dev post) |
| 14:28.25 | ZogG_laptop | Jaffa: i would say the most important is browser |
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| 14:28.40 | ZogG_laptop | and bug fixes, baterry life |
| 14:28.58 | alterego | ZogG_laptop: you're right, I probably wont do anything with them, except maybe use them to help others understand how they work internally. |
| 14:29.00 | Jaffa | ZogG_laptop: Browsers are big & hard, but there are already alternatives (e.g. Firefox) |
| 14:29.05 | SpeedEvil | Oh... |
| 14:29.08 | ZogG_laptop | as there is another email app ported btw |
| 14:29.10 | SpeedEvil | is surprised! |
| 14:29.17 | alterego | It's up to anyone else to take the initiative. |
| 14:29.18 | SpeedEvil | sees flash in the app-store. |
| 14:29.21 | SpeedEvil | (on n950) |
| 14:29.22 | ZogG_laptop | but browser is hard thing to do or write from scratch imho |
| 14:29.38 | ZogG_laptop | SpeedEvil: it's there for a long time |
| 14:29.44 | alterego | ZogG_laptop: not in QML I don't think, and not the N9 browser, that thing could probably be implemented in QML in a day ;) |
| 14:29.51 | SpeedEvil | ZogG: :) |
| 14:30.25 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: if you have source you would know most things are MTF, or i am wrong? |
| 14:30.39 | ZogG_laptop | SpeedEvil: it doesn work on native browser btw |
| 14:30.43 | ZogG_laptop | SpeedEvil: only firefox |
| 14:30.48 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 14:30.57 | Jaffa | ZogG_laptop: A decent finger friendly email app? Ooh, where? |
| 14:31.38 | Jaffa | ZogG_laptop: Browser is *relatively* easy if wrapping up QtWebKit (although there's odd behaviour of select lists using QtWebKit compared with Browser) |
| 14:31.50 | ZogG_laptop | Jaffa: not really finger friendly but as i saw people working on gui with qml or MohammadAG with MTF it's matter of effort and little time to make it |
| 14:32.36 | ZogG_laptop | Jaffa: http://www.n9fanclub.com/2012/05/trojita-030-imap-email-client-technical.html |
| 14:32.41 | ZogG_laptop | that is email app |
| 14:32.54 | alterego | ZogG_laptop: without counting, I can't tell you, you're probably right, but a lot of things are in QML, anyway, I'm just saying implementing a browser with the same feature set as the N9 browser in QML wouldn't be hard at all and wouldn't take very long. |
| 14:32.56 | ZogG_laptop | i think someone from here took it from the point last dev stoped it |
| 14:33.12 | alterego | Just embed QtWebKit and make a menu and location bar and you're set. |
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| 14:33.34 | alterego | I seriously think the N9 browser is the least interesting part of Harmattan. |
| 14:33.52 | alterego | Yet I probably use it the most .. |
| 14:34.14 | alterego | I mean interesting from a technical perspective. |
| 14:34.15 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: tabs, flash, plugins, addons are really hard thing imho, otherwise IE6 would be enuf =) |
| 14:34.45 | alterego | ZogG_laptop: all things that the inbuilt browser doesn't have ;) But with an open alternative, we could build on, those things at least could be implemented over time. |
| 14:34.57 | Jaffa | ZogG_laptop: It's rZr who seems to be carrying Trojita on http://gitorious.org/+harmattan/trojita/trojita-harmattan |
| 14:35.00 | frals | alterego: guess you havent seen all the cases grob handle... ;) |
| 14:35.00 | ZogG_laptop | but all i need is tabs and sync and logical UI |
| 14:35.02 | MohammadAG | Grob is QML |
| 14:35.02 | MohammadAG | (N9 stock browser's called grob) |
| 14:35.10 | alterego | I don't know how webkit off hand uses plugins, but we have a flash plugin for the N9, so why couldn't we get that to work with QtWebkit? |
| 14:35.24 | alterego | MohammadAG: I suspected as much. |
| 14:35.31 | ZogG_laptop | Jaffa: i think it's someone else, lemme check it was on tmo or fmc |
| 14:35.44 | MohammadAG | alterego: How? :p |
| 14:36.04 | MohammadAG | (I just stringed the binary once, has a lot of QML code) |
| 14:36.04 | alterego | MohammadAG: if you read the beginning of that sentence you'd see I don't know ;) |
| 14:36.29 | alterego | I remember reading a bit in the webkit APIs about plugins, if we wrote our own QML browser I'm sure it could be done. |
| 14:36.31 | trx | lol "grob" means grave on serbian |
| 14:36.34 | kevin_b | Because grob use QtWebKit2 which cannot use NPAPI plugin? |
| 14:36.34 | trx | not a good name :) |
| 14:36.52 | alterego | kevin_b: Well, not aware of that soo .. ;) |
| 14:36.55 | ZogG_laptop | trx: in russian too |
| 14:36.58 | MohammadAG | What does fenix mean? |
| 14:36.59 | kevin_b | so we need a new flash plugin for any WebKit2 app |
| 14:37.13 | alterego | Okay |
| 14:37.14 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Name of the mail app, IIRC |
| 14:37.16 | ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: bird? |
| 14:37.23 | Jaffa | Oh, I see |
| 14:37.25 | trx | yeahm bird :) |
| 14:37.26 | MohammadAG | That's pheonix :p |
| 14:37.29 | MohammadAG | Jaffa :p |
| 14:37.39 | alterego | kevin_b: what about implementing a NPAPI plugin adapter for Webkit 2? |
| 14:37.40 | MohammadAG | Phoenix even* |
| 14:37.44 | kevin_b | :D |
| 14:37.46 | ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: it was suggested here to rename to Ash |
| 14:37.53 | MohammadAG | Or just drop flash |
| 14:37.54 | trx | but thats "Feniks" |
| 14:38.09 | MohammadAG | Ash is the default shell :P |
| 14:38.15 | alterego | MohammadAG: I'm not bothered about flash, but this is an example of a technical issue which I think wouldn't be too hard to resolve in a CSSU |
| 14:38.17 | ZogG_laptop | trx: or Феникс =) |
| 14:38.25 | trx | yeah :) |
| 14:38.34 | MohammadAG | alterego: A cssu is possible on harmattan |
| 14:38.36 | alterego | And the browser lacks a lot of things. |
| 14:38.45 | alterego | Flash is just one of these things. |
| 14:38.54 | ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: alterego has source of PR1.3 =P |
| 14:39.17 | alterego | MohammadAG: indeed, with open-mode sure. |
| 14:39.25 | MohammadAG | Just like inception adds a com.nokia.maemo/local domain we'd a org.maemo.cssu domain |
| 14:39.30 | alterego | I think I'd be more interested in getting harmattan running on Mer |
| 14:39.41 | MohammadAG | alterego: No, normal argis system |
| 14:39.48 | MohammadAG | Aegis |
| 14:39.54 | ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: but most parts are closed, way more than maemo5 imho |
| 14:39.55 | alterego | MohammadAG: oh sure yeah. Forgot about inception |
| 14:39.57 | MohammadAG | We just need a higher domain officially added by Nokia |
| 14:40.09 | MohammadAG | alterego: I'm using it as an example |
| 14:40.18 | MohammadAG | We shouldn't use inception for a cssu |
| 14:40.28 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Or the system *thinks* had been officially added by Nokia; cos no Nokian's going to be left to add it |
| 14:40.30 | alterego | MohammadAG: it's okay, I understand your example ;) |
| 14:40.38 | ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: aegis free |
| 14:40.44 | MohammadAG | Or hacks, we need an official support package from Nokia |
| 14:40.59 | alterego | I actually managed to get Nokia Maps semi working under Nemo, |
| 14:41.05 | alterego | That was fun |
| 14:41.26 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: now you can really improve Nemo =P |
| 14:41.45 | ArkanoiD_ | abbra told me some people managed to get frankenstein update for n950 with n9 pr1.3, is there a reliable instruction for that? |
| 14:42.07 | alterego | ZogG_laptop: unfortunately I have my own roadmap ;) So I'm only really interested in Harmattan and Nemo as a informative resource ;) |
| 14:42.25 | alterego | It's unlikely I'll be doing anything practically for Harmattan or Nemo except as a side-effect of my current projects. |
| 14:42.56 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: ok. personal or work projects? |
| 14:43.02 | alterego | ZogG_laptop: both |
| 14:43.06 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: than leak it =P |
| 14:43.39 | azeem | or somebody leak alterego's private adress ;) |
| 14:43.39 | alterego | Nothing to leak really, I'm working with some people on developing an activity based computing platform on top of Mer. |
| 14:43.46 | alterego | For handset and tablet usage mainly at the moment. |
| 14:43.54 | alterego | lol |
| 14:44.07 | alterego | How did you know my private address is my password for everything?!? |
| 14:44.17 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: i'm talking about harmattan source |
| 14:44.40 | alterego | Oh, well, no :P |
| 14:45.22 | alterego | I'd rather people made good open alternatives like MohammadAG has done in the past to better other projects like Nemo. Than hack fixes together for closed proprietary bits in Harmattan. |
| 14:45.25 | arcean | ArkanoiD_: not yet, but possible |
| 14:45.44 | arcean | and quiet simple TBH :) |
| 14:46.08 | arcean | s/quiet/quite |
| 14:46.16 | MohammadAG | needs to understand the d private pointer and ClassNamePrivate concepts |
| 14:46.18 | alterego | The resources as far as Harmattan are concerned that I have, will only be used as a reference tool for when documentation isn't good enough for possible hacks and work-arounds. |
| 14:47.05 | alterego | MohammadAG: opaque instances of data for a class that are only available to the source files, so when you distribute your headers you don't give away internal APIs. |
| 14:47.27 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: than start with example how to use sigon-oauth2 plugin for accounts and integrate with app =) |
| 14:47.56 | ZogG_laptop | no normal examples or documentation |
| 14:48.00 | alterego | Not sure I have that either ;) |
| 14:48.08 | alterego | I'd have to look. |
| 14:48.22 | alterego | And it's on a different machine than the one I'm infront of now ;) |
| 14:48.32 | ZogG_laptop | it is part of twitter and i think facebook |
| 14:48.45 | alterego | Yes, twitter, facebook, maps, ... |
| 14:48.48 | MohammadAG | ZogG_laptop: You shouldn't use that |
| 14:48.50 | ZogG_laptop | alterego: it would be helpful |
| 14:48.50 | alterego | Quite a few apps iirc |
| 14:49.01 | MohammadAG | Afaik it isn't meant to be used |
| 14:49.01 | ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: why not? |
| 14:49.14 | MohammadAG | In fact afaik usage should be denied by aegis |
| 14:49.21 | ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: what do you mean it is used in twitter |
| 14:49.29 | MohammadAG | Twitter is Nokia's |
| 14:49.44 | MohammadAG | It isn't meant to be used by 3rd parties |
| 14:49.52 | ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: i need to make my own account not the twitter's one, i just need example on how |
| 14:50.12 | MohammadAG | Oh, don't lots of apps do that? |
| 14:50.20 | MohammadAG | Wazapp, web2sms etc |
| 14:50.32 | ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: no, as they use plain pass and user |
| 14:50.39 | ZogG_laptop | that you can get from account |
| 14:50.42 | ZogG_laptop | i do that too |
| 14:50.49 | ZogG_laptop | but token is not saved there |
| 14:51.14 | azeem | the status.net app doesn't hook into accounts e.g. |
| 14:51.22 | ZogG_laptop | you need to integrate request in plugin and use it from in app thru signon thing |
| 14:51.47 | ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: people or use plain password in accounts or they use qoauth |
| 14:52.16 | ZogG_laptop | qoauth is nice but it's easier to use something native which is already on phone and not bring new duplicate libs |
| 14:52.53 | MohammadAG | I don't get how creating an account would help with not using OAuth |
| 14:54.13 | ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: i'd use signon for that than extrenal lib |
| 14:54.32 | ZogG_laptop | with sigon i can make account in accounts with setting their and it's native way |
| 14:55.06 | ZogG_laptop | you can add webupload plugin wih actually has example with half code for dropbox |
| 14:55.21 | ZogG_laptop | wich is after all afaik use account plugin |
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| 14:56.12 | ZogG_laptop | beford released his last.fm account for scrobbler btw |
| 15:15.02 | ZogG_laptop | ~ping |
| 15:15.02 | infobot | ~pong |
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| 15:31.52 | azeem | euh, http://pvanhoof.be/blog/index.php/2012/07/05/battery-drain-on-n9-caused-by-a-combination-of-battery-icon-tracker-and-smartsearch |
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| 16:20.06 | petteri | azeem: thanks for the link |
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| 16:49.19 | itsnotabigtruck | there's been 135 qr code downloads of inception 0.2 |
| 16:49.34 | itsnotabigtruck | that doesn't count direct downloads from the site |
| 16:49.43 | itsnotabigtruck | but i don't feel like getting on my server and tabulating that |
| 16:50.48 | itsnotabigtruck | https://bitly.com/HLbWzL+ the us, germany, and finland seem to make up a remarkable chunk of the downloads |
| 16:51.20 | itsnotabigtruck | weird that there's more us downloads than any other one location |
| 16:51.27 | itsnotabigtruck | given the lack of distribution here |
| 16:51.41 | itsnotabigtruck | though some of those clicks might be me :p |
| 16:55.44 | macmaN | itsnotabigtruck: ok. whats the conclusion? |
| 16:56.19 | macmaN | nice use of qr-code i discovered lately was at a conference when the presenter told us to scan his contact card off the big screen |
| 16:56.41 | macmaN | today also my girl used one to get a navigation location directly into n9 |
| 16:56.51 | macmaN | but qr codes for me have been very rare.. |
| 16:57.04 | macmaN | maybe i dont hang around smart people enough |
| 16:57.15 | ZogG_laptop | they are on every ad today |
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| 16:57.43 | ZogG_laptop | noone just pay attention as those are not really useful to open facebook fan pages of some deodorant to make "like" |
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| 17:35.57 | niwakame|afk | "I've just liked <insert deodorant brand name here>, because it really makes the stench go away!" |
| 17:37.39 | itsnotabigtruck | lol |
| 17:37.53 | itsnotabigtruck | macmaN: well, they're good for getting a url from a pc to a phone |
| 17:37.58 | itsnotabigtruck | which is exactly what i'm using them for |
| 17:38.09 | itsnotabigtruck | but yeah, the advert stuff is totally useless |
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| 17:46.38 | niwakame|afk | :) |
| 17:48.12 | niwakame|afk | I need more ventilators here |
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| 18:39.21 | tehdely | dang... no ROW EMMC files available yet |
| 18:39.29 | tehdely | guess i'll have to flash with the northern europe one |
| 18:39.33 | tehdely | woo hoo swedish maps :> |
| 18:41.17 | niwakame|afk | haha, this is nice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTFPL |
| 18:42.55 | niwakame|afk | but I like this one more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beerware#License |
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| 19:33.36 | tehdely | hmm |
| 19:33.43 | tehdely | after reflashing with pr1.3 and enabling developer mode |
| 19:33.45 | tehdely | i can't seem to ssh into the device |
| 19:33.51 | tehdely | it's prompting for a password, even though i put my ssh key in there |
| 19:33.54 | tehdely | that's... annoying |
| 19:35.40 | jonni | and you are trying to login as developer and not root |
| 19:35.48 | tehdely | oh never mind |
| 19:35.50 | tehdely | had to passwd -u user |
| 19:36.22 | tehdely | i am a sysadmin, i should have known that ;) |
| 19:36.30 | tehdely | interestingly, developer user has no home dir |
| 19:36.33 | tehdely | i remember this problem on pr1.2 as well |
| 19:36.49 | jonni | it was a feature |
| 19:38.01 | tehdely | did they ever fix the issues with the developer apt repository |
| 19:38.24 | jonni | there has never been any issues :) |
| 19:38.40 | tehdely | i seem to remember something to do with the signature of the repository |
| 19:38.47 | tehdely | and that is why i could never leave it enabled as an apt source |
| 19:39.16 | jonni | you mean the sdk repository which was never meant to be used in N9. |
| 19:39.20 | tehdely | yes, that one |
| 19:39.31 | jonni | as it was sdk only. so nothing to be fixed. |
| 19:41.24 | jonni | and developers home dir is /home/developer, so it deas have a home dir. |
| 19:41.33 | tehdely | that directory does not exist on my phone |
| 19:41.36 | tehdely | i agree that that is developer's home dir |
| 19:41.51 | tehdely | what use is the 'developer' user anyway |
| 19:41.56 | tehdely | what is it for |
| 19:42.01 | jonni | then your flash or upgrade has failed somehow, or you havent runned the sdk connectivity tool |
| 19:42.09 | tehdely | the latter |
| 19:42.35 | jonni | its just an alias to user-user, as it has the same uid. |
| 19:43.15 | tehdely | thank you, you are answering my questions almost as quickly as i'm cooking em up |
| 19:43.37 | jonni | is you login as developer you end up in develsh and if you login with user you end up in /bin/sh, so developer user has more capas by default. |
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| 20:25.29 | sigmaorion | Jaffa, I was asking earlier for the OTA update that wasn't coming to my phone... I just got the update notification :) |
| 20:35.27 | vladest | hmm. still license wars |
| 20:36.01 | ZogG_laptop | Jaffa: ping |
| 20:44.39 | Kozzi | rzr: ping |
| 20:45.17 | rzr | pong ! game over , please insert coin |
| 20:45.36 | Kozzi | rzr: you ported rtmpdump to harmattan right ? |
| 20:46.26 | rzr | i just rebuilt it afaik |
| 20:46.31 | rzr | why |
| 20:46.46 | Kozzi | wonder if this version supports rtmpe |
| 20:50.14 | rzr | e like encryption ? |
| 20:50.32 | Kozzi | to overrides protocols |
| 20:50.37 | Kozzi | rtmpt, rtmp, rtmpe.. etc |
| 20:55.22 | Elleo | 8 |
| 20:55.25 | Elleo | oops |
| 20:56.32 | Kozzi | anyone here expert in sniffing rtmp urls ? |
| 21:01.21 | *** join/#harmattan koe (koe@94.180.139.161) |
| 21:04.21 | ZogG_laptop | i thought encypted is s like secure like rtp and srtp |
| 21:05.37 | aep | any idea if the lockscreen can be disabled? like double tab to get to the menu directly? if not, is there an api for it? |
| 21:08.02 | Kozzi | ZogG_laptop: rtmpdump is made for this task, atleast downloading |
| 21:08.22 | Kozzi | but one need to digg out the url of the streawm first |
| 21:09.32 | ZogG_laptop | Kozzi: srtp? |
| 21:09.48 | ZogG_laptop | if it's only RTP than use tcpdump |
| 21:09.55 | ZogG_laptop | and wireshark |
| 21:10.45 | Kozzi | I used wireshark and filtered with rtmpt |
| 21:10.57 | Kozzi | but only get bunch of Unknown (0x0) packets |
| 21:11.37 | ZogG_laptop | so no audio? |
| 21:12.01 | ZogG_laptop | used Voip flow ? |
| 21:14.25 | Kozzi | nope, one handshake c2 and bunch on unknown packets |
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| 21:33.22 | niwakame | strange, after fastern9 installation the billboard doesn't work anymore oO |
| 21:33.51 | niwakame | ah ok |
| 21:34.12 | niwakame | you always have to wait in life for things to happen |
| 21:34.14 | niwakame | :P |
| 21:34.48 | niwakame | out for today! |
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| 22:29.54 | Sniper_swe | how do i get ssh root access after pr 1.3 |
| 22:30.09 | Sniper_swe | the old way from pr12 seems to not be working |
| 22:32.51 | koe | which way? |
| 22:33.16 | Sniper_swe | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=79645&highlight=problem+ssh+root |
| 22:35.23 | koe | i use ssh developer@192.168.2.15 and devel-su then if needed |
| 22:35.30 | koe | never fails |
| 22:41.04 | Sniper_swe | yeah used user now in putty |
| 22:41.09 | Sniper_swe | the devel-su |
| 22:41.16 | Sniper_swe | hard in filezilla though |
| 22:43.20 | jabis | Sniper_swe: you had the developer mode bug? |
| 22:43.29 | jabis | enabling it didn't work |
| 22:43.33 | Sniper_swe | nope worked good |
| 22:43.54 | jabis | kk then it was someone else |
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| 23:57.41 | Kozzi | would this work on harmattan: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rtmpdump/2.4~20110711.gitc28f1bab-1/+build/2844279 ? |
| 23:58.15 | Kozzi | desperately need the swfVfy function but it's not available in rtmpdump v1.9 for harmattan |