| 15:10.35 | *** join/#harmattan infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
| 15:10.35 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions | Customers help customers on #N9 | Please stay on topic and no NDA stuff here | Developers : http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | ~aegis-no-thanks | LATEST ~update | http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/14/nokia-reportedly-scraps-meltemi/ |
| 15:10.35 | *** mode/#harmattan [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 15:12.24 | romaxa | mehranMicro: make -C obj-build deb |
| 15:12.51 | romaxa | mehranMicro: do you mean FF deb package? |
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| 15:18.40 | RST38h | moos at romaxa evilly |
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| 15:34.23 | DocScrutinizer51 | hola dm8tbr |
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| 15:36.03 | azeem | mehranMicro: unless you run armel Ubuntu (and even then it would be a bad idea), you cannot just build packages on Ubuntu for your N9; you need scratchbox |
| 15:36.49 | dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer51: moo |
| 15:37.29 | mehranMicro | azeem: ok can i build by madde? |
| 15:37.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | dm8tbr: 8550 |
| 15:37.58 | azeem | mehranMicro: what's madde? |
| 15:38.43 | mehranMicro | madde is a tools that have toolchain for cross compiling |
| 15:39.09 | dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer51: a pnp transistor? |
| 15:39.10 | mehranMicro | but i dont know how use it and connot find its commands |
| 15:39.24 | azeem | I see, no idea whether that would be appropriate, but possibly it is |
| 15:39.31 | javispedro | heya DocScrutinizer51 |
| 15:39.41 | RST38h | Moo javispedro, how are things? |
| 15:39.47 | javispedro | and heya RST38h |
| 15:39.48 | mehranMicro | it is with QtSDK |
| 15:40.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | holaAAA javispedro |
| 15:40.14 | javispedro | RST38h: happier than usual because of recent experimental results that actually make some sense :) |
| 15:40.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | dm8tbr: more like a billion mosfets |
| 15:41.24 | dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer51: ah, your stuff is now shipping as a product? |
| 15:41.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:42.03 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer51: btw, I'm getting a N9 (out of my own money), do you know if the USB ID pin is connected on it? |
| 15:42.03 | dm8tbr | mkay |
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| 15:42.36 | mehranMicro | azeem:i think i found it ,url:http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Alternative_development_environments_MADDE_terminal_user_guide.html |
| 15:42.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: sorry not for sure off top of my head |
| 15:42.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | but... yes |
| 15:43.17 | azeem | mehranMicro: cool |
| 15:43.18 | javispedro | the schematic seemingly says so |
| 15:43.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | probably |
| 15:43.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | :nod: |
| 15:43.38 | javispedro | i'm thinking that a trivial hw mod at connector/plug level might make usbh work. |
| 15:43.57 | javispedro | on the n9, not on the n950. |
| 15:44.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | I think I tried |
| 15:44.39 | javispedro | oh :( |
| 15:44.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | but with old kernel |
| 15:45.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | or even on 950 |
| 15:46.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: n 4 h I can check |
| 15:46.31 | javispedro | no hurries, just thinking of stuff to test when my vacations start next month :) |
| 15:47.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | I doubt they pull up ID |
| 15:47.45 | RST38h | javispedro: unusual (about the results), yes |
| 15:47.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | no pullup -: no pulldown |
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| 15:49.09 | DocScrutinizer51 | dm8tbr: any commonly known problems with IRQ detection on OMAP4? |
| 15:49.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | dm8tbr: SiErr or sth? |
| 15:52.06 | DocScrutinizer51 | afk, bbl |
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| 16:03.01 | Sazpaimon | so I'm seeing "not enough power to charge" messages when I plug my N9 into a 2.1amp usb port |
| 16:03.04 | Sazpaimon | is this normal? |
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| 16:03.14 | RST38h | happens |
| 16:03.35 | Sazpaimon | what's the N9 rated for? |
| 16:03.48 | Sazpaimon | will it actually charge at 2.1 amps? |
| 16:07.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | Sazpaimon: D+- short missing |
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| 16:07.53 | jonni | Sazpaimon: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83519&page=2 |
| 16:08.05 | DocScrutinizer51 | and no it won't ever charge with 2.1 |
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| 16:08.29 | jonni | but with that dongle you can atleast get 1A |
| 16:19.02 | jesuschrist^ | guys how to reuse a backup you made before you flashed ? |
| 16:19.17 | jesuschrist^ | i moved the dirs under /home/user/.backup |
| 16:19.24 | jesuschrist^ | .backups |
| 16:19.28 | jesuschrist^ | but it doesnt work |
| 16:21.37 | Sazpaimon | DocScrutinizer, so if the USB plug actually pretends to enumerate a device, the N9 won't properly charge? |
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| 16:24.03 | Sazpaimon | i assume the port here does doesn't short data so it'll support iphone |
| 16:25.58 | jesuschrist^ | anyone alive ? |
| 16:29.34 | azeem | jesuschrist^: IIRC it is MyDocs/.backups |
| 16:29.39 | azeem | or MyDocs/.backup |
| 16:29.49 | jesuschrist^ | ahaaa |
| 16:29.56 | jesuschrist^ | thanks |
| 16:32.55 | *** join/#harmattan Crnkoj (IceChat77@BSN-143-136-169.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 16:33.11 | Crnkoj | does anyone know how to enable pbap over bluetooth on harmattan/n9 ? |
| 16:35.26 | Sazpaimon | i may just get something like this: http://mobile.brando.com/brando-workshop-usb-to-micro-usb-cable_p04980c0704d003.html |
| 16:35.43 | Sazpaimon | also what is the max power the N9 will draw from microusb? |
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| 17:10.17 | chem|st | how do I upgrade 1.2beta? |
| 17:10.40 | chem|st | 28.2012.03-1_PR_001 |
| 17:10.52 | Sazpaimon | chem|st, you can change your repository to the PR1.3 one |
| 17:10.59 | Sazpaimon | as long as you dont flash sw-cert |
| 17:11.12 | Sazpaimon | because then you'll permanently brick your N950 |
| 17:11.37 | ptl | is it possible? to permanently brick N9 or N950? |
| 17:11.56 | MohammadAG | yes, upgrade to a newer version that has no flashing image :D |
| 17:11.57 | chem|st | Sazpaimon: n9 and it shows the upgrade to 40.2012.21-3 |
| 17:12.28 | ptl | there is a flashing image for PR1.3, isn't it? |
| 17:13.03 | Sazpaimon | wait |
| 17:13.10 | Sazpaimon | N9, PR1.2 beta? |
| 17:13.14 | Sazpaimon | uhh |
| 17:13.20 | Sazpaimon | how? |
| 17:13.51 | chem|st | devel device |
| 17:14.46 | MohammadAG | ptl, not on the N950 |
| 17:15.37 | ptl | ah, ok |
| 17:16.15 | ptl | It seems that if the N9 was a second-class citizen to Nokia, N950 was a third-class citizen...Before being expelled of course |
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| 17:20.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | Sazpaimon: (pretend to enumerate) funny way to say 'looks like connected to a host that's simply not doing anything' - but yes |
| 17:22.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | Sazpaimon: in that case any peripheral according to usb specs isn't supposed to draw more than IIRC 100mA |
| 17:22.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | Sazpaimon: max an N9 can draw from fastcharger is 1000some mA |
| 17:23.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | the charger chip in N9 can't handle more |
| 17:23.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~ping |
| 17:23.17 | infobot | ~pong |
| 17:23.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | \o/ |
| 17:24.16 | Sazpaimon | DocScrutinizer, I assume the reason my power strip does this is to support iDevices |
| 17:24.35 | Sazpaimon | which iirc use the data voltage to negotiate charging power |
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| 17:24.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | Sazpaimon: 1000mA should suffice for most cases |
| 17:24.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep |
| 17:25.11 | Sazpaimon | so I |
| 17:25.14 | Sazpaimon | erm |
| 17:25.16 | MohammadAG | ~may-i-edit |
| 17:25.16 | infobot | mayIedit () { grep "`basename $1`" /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" && return; echo "edit if you feel venturous"; } |
| 17:25.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | iPhone and USB cert fastcharging is not exactly compatible |
| 17:26.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | there are USB adapters with a switch (labeled Ncharging") that short D+- |
| 17:26.58 | ptl | lol |
| 17:27.26 | Sazpaimon | so I'll either need to butcher a microusb cable, or buy something like http://mobile.brando.com/brando-workshop-usb-to-micro-usb-cable_p04980c0704d003.html |
| 17:27.51 | Sazpaimon | werid that my friend's android phone picks it up as a charger no problem |
| 17:30.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | nokia is very obedient to usb ig specs |
| 17:30.29 | Sazpaimon | for better or for worse it seems |
| 17:30.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | for the safer |
| 17:31.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | if you plug a mugwarmer to zour laptop, it pulls 800mA and fries your laptop, you can sue a hongkong backyard company |
| 17:32.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | if same happens with N9 :-((( |
| 17:32.22 | mehranMicro | i typed "ariadne apt-get install libpkcs11-helper1" in N9 teminal why cannot find package what is solution? |
| 17:34.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | actually you *could* ue your laptop manuf as well as all USB SHALL have shortcircuit protection |
| 17:35.15 | MohammadAG | <DocScrutinizer51> if you plug a mugwarmer to zour laptop, it pulls 800mA and fries your laptop, you can sue a hongkong backyard company |
| 17:35.15 | MohammadAG | <DocScrutinizer51> if same happens with N9 :-((( |
| 17:35.22 | MohammadAG | get host mode working so I can sue! |
| 17:35.31 | MohammadAG | I need teh moneys |
| 17:35.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | you got it wrong |
| 17:35.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | N9 periph/B here |
| 17:36.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | not host/A |
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| 17:37.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | bbl afk |
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| 17:46.50 | chem|st | !help! |
| 17:47.01 | beford | halp |
| 17:47.19 | Crnkoj | guys does anyone know how i coudl get pbabp to work between the n9 on pr 1.3 and a nokia bh-221 headset ? |
| 17:47.38 | beford | what is pbabp |
| 17:47.45 | Crnkoj | pbabp with the headset works with android phones... and apparently the n9 should support pbap as well (at least obexd gets started with the pbap plugin) |
| 17:47.50 | Crnkoj | phone book acces protocol |
| 17:47.51 | chem|st | I guess I have to setup some old repo to upgrade to 1.2 first and then revert back and upgrade to 1.3... right? |
| 17:48.12 | Crnkoj | its when people call you, on teh headset display you get their name instead of the number |
| 17:48.19 | Crnkoj | chem|st you ahve a n9 or a n950 ? |
| 17:48.20 | beford | ah ok, no idea sorry |
| 17:48.25 | chem|st | Crnkoj: n9 |
| 17:48.44 | chem|st | n9 with pr1.2beta on it |
| 17:48.52 | Crnkoj | chem|st cant you jsut use flasher to flash a pr1.3 001? |
| 17:49.04 | Crnkoj | i belive this shoudl work |
| 17:49.14 | Crnkoj | but you might loose your persona data than |
| 17:49.20 | chem|st | believing is not a good word in that case |
| 17:49.23 | Crnkoj | if thats not an issue i would think its the easiest way |
| 17:49.36 | Crnkoj | well i dont have a n9 with pr 1.2 beta |
| 17:49.44 | Crnkoj | so i cant speak out of own experience |
| 17:50.07 | Crnkoj | but as long as your n9 uses the same signatures and stuff as the otehr n9's flashing a central european 001 variant of 1.3 should work fine |
| 17:50.52 | beford | chem|st, i'm not sure what you are asking but you can't downgrade to 1.2 if you already flashed 1.3 |
| 17:51.12 | Crnkoj | no, hes on pr 1.2 beta and wants to upgrade to pr 1.3 |
| 17:51.51 | beford | n9 has no "beta" for 1.2 afaik |
| 17:52.04 | Crnkoj | i cant comment on that |
| 17:52.15 | Crnkoj | but flashing 1.3 with flasher should do it |
| 17:52.16 | chem|st | beford: UPGRADING... |
| 17:52.41 | MohammadAG | itsnotabigtruck, ping |
| 17:53.28 | chem|st | beford: I have an N9 with PR1.2beta 28.2012.03-1_PR_001 |
| 17:54.06 | beford | chem|st, you want to upgrade? just flash 1.3 yea |
| 17:54.43 | Crnkoj | ye just go to navifirm, dl the images for your phone code and flash with flasher |
| 17:59.24 | *** join/#harmattan artemma (~artem@a88-114-227-142.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:59.53 | MohammadAG | is there a known way to run apps on Harmattan as root? |
| 18:02.40 | *** join/#harmattan tom___ (~tom@93.186.149.254) |
| 18:05.29 | javispedro | MohammadAG: request UID::root using Aegis |
| 18:05.48 | MohammadAG | javispedro remote theme daemon is unavailable, -local-theme -> segfault |
| 18:05.51 | javispedro | not the same thing but kinda works |
| 18:06.03 | javispedro | $DISPLAY |
| 18:06.15 | MohammadAG | ~ # echo $DISPLAY |
| 18:06.16 | MohammadAG | :0 |
| 18:06.32 | MohammadAG | ~ # /usr/bin/application-manager |
| 18:06.32 | MohammadAG | "/usr/bin/application-manager" Failed to connect to remote themedaemon. Retrying in one second. |
| 18:06.42 | MohammadAG | ~ # /usr/bin/application-manager -local-theme |
| 18:06.42 | MohammadAG | Segmentation fault |
| 18:07.57 | javispedro | not here, so it is aegis. |
| 18:08.10 | MohammadAG | javispedro, it's an MTF app |
| 18:08.17 | javispedro | file under /var/run/ is owned by user, so it will fail under aegis unless you also have UID::user |
| 18:09.22 | MohammadAG | so how does one write a package manager? |
| 18:09.32 | javispedro | UI as user, daemon as root |
| 18:09.44 | MohammadAG | the fuck |
| 18:09.48 | javispedro | use d-bus or favourite IPC to talk |
| 18:09.59 | MohammadAG | but that slows shit down |
| 18:10.14 | javispedro | not necessarily |
| 18:10.31 | javispedro | but what do you want to do? maybe you can actually query pkgmgrd directly |
| 18:10.42 | javispedro | (it's a d-bus daemon after all) |
| 18:11.00 | MohammadAG | javispedro, http://i47.tinypic.com/20gmyps.jpg |
| 18:11.11 | javispedro | (whatever you can do on the command line via pkmgr, you can do using d-bus to call pkgmgrd) |
| 18:11.35 | javispedro | *pkgmgr |
| 18:11.46 | Venemo | MohammadAG: what is that? |
| 18:12.04 | MohammadAG | Venemo, UI for app manager |
| 18:12.21 | Venemo | MohammadAG: ha! nice. are you doing it? |
| 18:12.23 | MohammadAG | there's no proper app manager on Harmattan |
| 18:12.24 | MohammadAG | yes |
| 18:12.33 | Venemo | MohammadAG: you are awesome :) |
| 18:12.50 | Venemo | just please make it fast and responsive |
| 18:12.51 | MohammadAG | save that till I get it working :p |
| 18:13.01 | MohammadAG | I can't make it fast if it doesn't run as root |
| 18:13.26 | Venemo | yes you can. |
| 18:13.45 | Venemo | or why couldn't you? |
| 18:13.57 | MohammadAG | read some lines up |
| 18:14.14 | MohammadAG | In other non-Harmattan news, iOS 6 beta 3 up |
| 18:14.30 | javispedro | reading frm disk will be around a billion times slower than transferring the entire package list, including icons, via a d-bus array. |
| 18:14.45 | Venemo | I don't think dbus would slow it down THAT much if you use it in a smart way. |
| 18:16.10 | Crnkoj | guys whats teh command to see bluetooth devices in the terminal on harmattan ? |
| 18:16.14 | MohammadAG | javispedro, so how do I get a full list of apps? |
| 18:16.17 | Crnkoj | like tehre is bluez for other linux distros? |
| 18:16.19 | MohammadAG | err, packages |
| 18:16.28 | MohammadAG | afaik Harmattan uses bluez |
| 18:16.38 | javispedro | MohammadAG: that is the hard part I'd say :) |
| 18:16.50 | javispedro | MohammadAG: investigate what F-A-P used, or even H-A-M. |
| 18:16.51 | Venemo | MohammadAG: I think you can safely use dpkg -l even if you're not root |
| 18:16.59 | Crnkoj | hmm cant seem to find bluez |
| 18:17.11 | Venemo | MohammadAG: or you could read the dpkg db manually |
| 18:17.13 | javispedro | MohammadAG: pkgmgr seems to list user/* packages |
| 18:17.16 | MohammadAG | javispedro, fapman uses apt through libs |
| 18:17.25 | MohammadAG | javispedro, yes, that's why I want to use apt directly |
| 18:17.26 | Venemo | MohammadAG: so. use apt through libs |
| 18:17.33 | MohammadAG | Venemo, I can't run it as root |
| 18:17.41 | Venemo | you don't have to run it as root |
| 18:17.50 | MohammadAG | and the fact I have to use a DBus daemon makes this not worth the trouble for me |
| 18:18.13 | MohammadAG | ~ $ apt-get update |
| 18:18.13 | MohammadAG | E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/apt/lists/lock - open (13: Permission denied) |
| 18:18.13 | MohammadAG | E: Unable to lock the list directory |
| 18:18.46 | javispedro | kind of understands the aversion to d-bus, but it will not be as bad as you think. |
| 18:18.59 | Venemo | MohammadAG: 'dpkg -l' works as user for me |
| 18:19.08 | MohammadAG | Venemo, that's for listing |
| 18:19.14 | Venemo | MohammadAG: obviously, you will need to be root for update/remove/install |
| 18:19.15 | MohammadAG | installing requires root privs |
| 18:19.35 | MohammadAG | javispedro, the only thing it saves me is not having to use threads |
| 18:19.41 | Venemo | I recommend making a daemon that runs as root, and communication with that daemon through d-bus or something else. |
| 18:19.44 | MohammadAG | but it probably requires double the coding time |
| 18:19.56 | javispedro | certainly. |
| 18:20.13 | MohammadAG | sometimes I wonder if it's even worth it |
| 18:20.27 | Venemo | well, that's up to you. |
| 18:22.47 | MohammadAG | oh nice |
| 18:22.54 | MohammadAG | themedaemon went down |
| 18:24.25 | Venemo | MohammadAG: have you got your N9 yet? |
| 18:24.39 | MohammadAG | yes, and the SIM slot pins on the N950 broke the same day |
| 18:24.54 | Venemo | OMG |
| 18:24.58 | Venemo | how did you do that? |
| 18:25.07 | MohammadAG | microSIM adapter got stuck |
| 18:25.16 | hiemanshu | lol |
| 18:25.32 | MohammadAG | DDP haven't replied yet |
| 18:25.55 | hiemanshu | yeah same here |
| 18:26.02 | hiemanshu | I was just going to re-ping quim about it |
| 18:26.06 | hiemanshu | about my N950 |
| 18:26.19 | hiemanshu | I hope I can get one without having mine shipped out there |
| 18:26.34 | hiemanshu | too muhc of a pain to send it back :( |
| 18:26.52 | MohammadAG | no |
| 18:26.58 | MohammadAG | they only ship after they get it |
| 18:27.18 | hiemanshu | damn |
| 18:27.35 | hiemanshu | I did hear something getting theirs without shipping it back |
| 18:27.38 | hiemanshu | someone* |
| 18:27.42 | hiemanshu | cant recall where |
| 18:27.45 | MohammadAG | me |
| 18:27.52 | MohammadAG | technically it was stuck in customs |
| 18:28.05 | MohammadAG | so they shipped a third one till the second was cleared and sent back |
| 18:28.07 | hiemanshu | no I mean, contacted DDP, told its broken, new one shipped |
| 18:28.18 | MohammadAG | no idea |
| 18:28.24 | MohammadAG | but that was probably when Joan was there |
| 18:30.05 | hiemanshu | hmm |
| 18:30.10 | hiemanshu | is it new people now? |
| 18:30.33 | MohammadAG | I'm guessing there are no people now :p |
| 18:30.40 | hiemanshu | haha |
| 18:31.01 | hiemanshu | I pinged quim again, last contact with him was 2 weeks ago to reemail DDP |
| 18:31.07 | hiemanshu | he said DDP agreed to replace mine |
| 18:31.24 | hiemanshu | MohammadAG: who sent your N9 then? I heard it was different this time |
| 18:31.26 | MohammadAG | this is my 2nd replacement |
| 18:31.33 | MohammadAG | Ville Moisio |
| 18:31.41 | hiemanshu | not via DDP right? |
| 18:31.45 | MohammadAG | no |
| 18:32.23 | hiemanshu | thought so, all DDP interns must have been asked to leave :P |
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| 18:44.08 | Venemo | http://twitpic.com/a88ig6 |
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| 19:15.11 | Sniper_swe | ovi store down? |
| 19:15.46 | Crnkoj | seems so |
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| 19:17.38 | jesuschrist^ | its becoming outlook express store :( |
| 19:18.27 | Crnkoj | lol |
| 19:23.12 | Sniper_swe | ok thx for confimation |
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| 19:35.44 | ZogG_laptop | does WP have bluescreen? |
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| 19:51.25 | hiemanshu | MohammadAG: quim asked me to re email and cc him |
| 19:51.37 | hiemanshu | you should ask him too |
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| 20:03.14 | lbt | so my N9 is stuck on "Updating Library" in music... which is sad because there's no music on the device |
| 20:03.25 | lbt | any clues? |
| 20:03.45 | lbt | (no music other than the pre-loaded stuff) |
| 20:04.50 | phako | probably tracker busy with sth else |
| 20:04.54 | lbt | I did take some pics this afternoon and accidentally left it recording video for a fair few minutes - and non of the pics or the video appeared in the gallery - so I wonder about tracker |
| 20:05.37 | *** join/#harmattan gabriel9 (~gabriel9@67-69-246-188-bl.cable.dyn.broadband.blic.net) |
| 20:06.05 | ZogG_laptop | lbt: reboot? |
| 20:06.43 | lbt | ZogG_laptop: not always the best thing if it just restarts - but if that's the solution.... |
| 20:06.53 | lbt | if it just restarts an index I meant :) |
| 20:07.15 | ZogG_laptop | it starts everyreboot i think |
| 20:07.33 | ZogG_laptop | lbt: i had problm with tracker not seeing some pictures in gallery |
| 20:07.51 | lbt | ZogG_laptop: restart fixed? |
| 20:08.04 | ZogG_laptop | lbt: do not use any command suggestions from forum till you read a lot abou it - i used one and it cleaned my contacts |
| 20:08.11 | ZogG_laptop | so better you backup btw |
| 20:08.24 | ZogG_laptop | lbt: not fixed, but the problem was different |
| 20:08.32 | ZogG_laptop | lbt: and check syslog btw |
| 20:08.43 | lbt | ok |
| 20:09.25 | lbt | ty :) |
| 20:10.41 | ZogG_laptop | there are tracker commands simuliar to n900, but not sure all of them safe |
| 20:10.52 | ZogG_laptop | i think jonni or MohammadAG might know few things about |
| 20:11.41 | ZogG_laptop | tomorrow i'm getting my N950 |
| 20:11.44 | ZogG_laptop | \o/ |
| 20:14.19 | lbt | :) |
| 20:15.01 | jonni | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:16.04 | jonni | you can pause/resume/restart miners as you like |
| 20:16.26 | *** join/#harmattan tom (~tom@93.186.149.254) |
| 20:17.32 | ZogG_laptop | lbt: ^ |
| 20:17.42 | lbt | OK, ta |
| 20:17.43 | ZogG_laptop | jonni — helpful as always |
| 20:18.00 | lbt | tries to ssh in |
| 20:21.50 | merlin1991 | never ever reset the tracker db on harm though |
| 20:22.02 | merlin1991 | sms, emails and whatnot are stored *ONLY* in the tracker db |
| 20:22.29 | merlin1991 | on maemo5 the tracker store was only an index now it is an important db aswell :/ |
| 20:23.17 | ZogG_laptop | merlin1991: where is CSSU, ah? =) |
| 20:23.39 | merlin1991 | don't think we could fix that mess easily |
| 20:23.50 | merlin1991 | I bet tons of closed stuff depend on that tracker weirdness |
| 20:24.17 | merlin1991 | though I'd be the first to replace the backend db with something less volatile |
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| 20:32.04 | ieatlint | well, i'm all ready to buy nokia stock on friday :) |
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| 20:34.43 | lbt | jonni: merlin1991: thanks too - useful |
| 20:35.08 | lbt | it has come back now ... but nice being able to see the tracker stuff |
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| 20:39.38 | *** join/#harmattan teleshoes1 (~teleshoes@mb32536d0.tmodns.net) |
| 20:39.49 | teleshoes1 | hello |
| 20:39.57 | teleshoes1 | does anyone have trouble with vim and backspace? |
| 20:40.26 | teleshoes1 | when sshing in, or using meego-terminal on the device, or vnc-ing in and using meego-terminal, |
| 20:40.41 | teleshoes1 | in gnome-terminal, urxvt, and xterm |
| 20:40.54 | teleshoes1 | with no .vimrc, or with my default |
| 20:41.10 | ZogG_laptop | what problem exactly? |
| 20:41.11 | teleshoes1 | i find that i can only backspace when the terminal thinks ive queued up character inserts |
| 20:41.24 | teleshoes1 | vim some_file |
| 20:41.25 | teleshoes1 | i |
| 20:41.32 | teleshoes1 | backspace, nothing |
| 20:41.38 | teleshoes1 | type three characters |
| 20:41.42 | teleshoes1 | then three backspaces work |
| 20:41.52 | teleshoes1 | more backspaces do nothing |
| 20:42.06 | ZogG_laptop | dunno than |
| 20:42.16 | teleshoes1 | im having trouble writing a map for backspace to <ESC>hd or something |
| 20:42.21 | teleshoes1 | to get around this |
| 20:43.08 | deram | teleshoes1: sounds like standard vi behviour (on some versions of it at least) |
| 20:43.25 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi_ (~lpapp@109.79.144.114) |
| 20:43.26 | djszapi_ | sup |
| 20:43.29 | teleshoes1 | ? |
| 20:43.33 | teleshoes1 | vim |
| 20:43.38 | teleshoes1 | not vi |
| 20:43.47 | ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: sup |
| 20:43.48 | teleshoes1 | and its totally not standard on any version of vim |
| 20:44.15 | deram | in some versions you can only backspace parts of the line you have written at same insert mode |
| 20:44.37 | deram | vim is vi improved, some versions are just not that improved... |
| 20:45.06 | teleshoes1 | vim and vi share little codebase |
| 20:45.20 | deram | yep, and a lot of history |
| 20:45.21 | teleshoes1 | vi, btw, works fine |
| 20:45.34 | teleshoes1 | i find this problem only in vim |
| 20:45.37 | djszapi_ | joe ftw :) |
| 20:46.05 | ZogG_laptop | teleshoes1: try to find othe version |
| 20:46.28 | teleshoes1 | 7.3.3... |
| 20:46.53 | djszapi_ | wow |
| 20:46.55 | djszapi_ | that is quite old... |
| 20:47.06 | ZogG_laptop | 7.3.515 is last i have on comp |
| 20:47.09 | djszapi_ | 7.3.547 here |
| 20:47.11 | teleshoes1 | me too |
| 20:47.11 | ZogG_laptop | not harmattan |
| 20:47.24 | teleshoes1 | 7.3.515 on my laptop |
| 20:47.29 | teleshoes1 | im not talking about on my laptop tho |
| 20:47.37 | teleshoes1 | i dont think anyones compiled anything later |
| 20:48.22 | djszapi_ | wow, and even my vim is quite old |
| 20:48.30 | djszapi_ | 7.3.600 in my repository :D |
| 20:48.40 | djszapi_ | stable, that is |
| 20:48.54 | teleshoes1 | am i the only person who uses vim on my n9? |
| 20:49.01 | djszapi_ | ofc not |
| 20:49.10 | djszapi_ | it is even packaged, and used my by many users |
| 20:49.15 | teleshoes1 | yea |
| 20:49.40 | teleshoes1 | i cant imagine why it doesnt work, only for me |
| 20:49.43 | djszapi_ | though I packaged this very long ago |
| 20:49.53 | djszapi_ | define does not work |
| 20:49.59 | teleshoes1 | backspace trouble |
| 20:50.08 | teleshoes1 | (04:41:07 PM) teleshoes1: i find that i can only backspace when the terminal thinks ive queued up character inserts |
| 20:50.09 | teleshoes1 | (04:41:20 PM) teleshoes1: vim some_file |
| 20:50.09 | teleshoes1 | (04:41:22 PM) teleshoes1: i |
| 20:50.09 | teleshoes1 | (04:41:28 PM) teleshoes1: backspace, nothing |
| 20:50.09 | teleshoes1 | (04:41:34 PM) teleshoes1: type three characters |
| 20:50.09 | teleshoes1 | (04:41:39 PM) teleshoes1: then three backspaces work |
| 20:50.10 | teleshoes1 | (04:41:48 PM) teleshoes1: more backspaces do nothing |
| 20:50.40 | teleshoes1 | sshd with: xterm, rxvt, gnome-terminal |
| 20:50.47 | teleshoes1 | and on meego-terminal |
| 20:50.52 | teleshoes1 | identical behaviour |
| 20:50.58 | deram | that seems to me to be how that version of vim is supposed to work by design |
| 20:51.07 | teleshoes1 | whaaat? |
| 20:51.11 | deram | that has hitted me many times |
| 20:51.12 | teleshoes1 | no wai |
| 20:51.18 | deram | on different computers |
| 20:51.24 | teleshoes1 | holy shit |
| 20:51.26 | teleshoes1 | you seem to be right |
| 20:51.32 | teleshoes1 | thanks deram |
| 20:51.37 | ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: i don't think there is that big difference |
| 20:51.48 | deram | no problem.. |
| 20:51.59 | teleshoes1 | just found an article |
| 20:52.06 | teleshoes1 | set backspace=2 is the magical incantation |
| 20:52.08 | teleshoes1 | trying |
| 20:52.26 | djszapi_ | ZogG_laptop: ... between ? |
| 20:52.46 | teleshoes1 | fuck me, that was easy to fix. ive been coping for like a year |
| 20:54.04 | djszapi_ | RST38h: so what was this news about the jolla thingy ? |
| 20:54.18 | ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: 515 and 600 |
| 20:54.35 | djszapi_ | ZogG_laptop: yeah, not much ... just 85 changes :) |
| 20:55.14 | teleshoes1 | thanks again deram |
| 20:55.15 | teleshoes1 | peas |
| 20:55.18 | *** part/#harmattan teleshoes1 (~teleshoes@mb32536d0.tmodns.net) |
| 20:55.42 | ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: it's not about it |
| 20:55.49 | ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: i wouldn't see those |
| 20:56.33 | djszapi_ | ZogG_laptop: it is about it. It can make a huge difference for anybody liking that were added in the meantime. |
| 20:58.52 | *** join/#harmattan akbaar__ (~communi@2.89.170.174) |
| 20:59.57 | jonni | gigantti is selling white 64GB N9 for 319e, that is pretty cheap. |
| 21:00.57 | djszapi_ | jonni: that expensive for a dead phone ? :) |
| 21:01.32 | jonni | well its cheap compared for launch prices :) |
| 21:03.16 | jonni | and newest pr release is pretty stable, so you get couple years of pretty decent phone experience. Yes, there is no successor, but if people like working email, chat and phonecalls with apps that cover most common usecases, then its pretty nice. |
| 21:04.03 | djszapi_ | will wait for a new phone instead |
| 21:04.18 | djszapi_ | unsure which phrase the ubuntu phone is for instance |
| 21:04.24 | djszapi_ | in* |
| 21:04.29 | jonni | new iPhone :) |
| 21:05.32 | djszapi_ | how strong is the qt support on that? |
| 21:05.54 | ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: don't you have N9? |
| 21:10.42 | djszapi_ | ZogG_laptop: the answer is not public, sorry. |
| 21:10.55 | djszapi_ | :) |
| 21:11.55 | djszapi_ | well, I do have one, but it is a bit scretchy so I need to look for a new phone soon unless I fall back to existing symbian, n900, old htc desire or other boring stuff which I will probably not. |
| 21:12.37 | djszapi_ | though the phone is not for phoning to me, but more like surfing on the internet :D |
| 21:19.22 | ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: wait for what jolla can show you |
| 21:20.22 | djszapi_ | ZogG_laptop: keep shaking me up from the graveyard |
| 21:21.12 | ZogG_laptop | meh, i think they are nt that stupid to open new company and bet everyithin just on something dead |
| 21:21.20 | ZogG_laptop | as well as zombie never dies |
| 21:21.42 | djszapi_ | ZogG_laptop: this synonym how I could describe that waiting: http://qtmemes.tumblr.com/post/23661370122/weve-all-been-there-elburger |
| 21:22.04 | ieatlint | i doubt they'll go beyond niche, but it could result in a buyout that does well for the employees |
| 21:22.28 | jonni | djszapi_: well qt is in a rought times too, since if no company will start paying for qt developement or hire the developers when nokia cuts funding, then... atleast development will be quite much slower if devel changes to community based only. |
| 21:22.50 | djszapi_ | jonni: that is incorrect |
| 21:22.52 | jonni | heh, that reminds me to update my CV :) |
| 21:22.54 | djszapi_ | luckily enough |
| 21:22.59 | djszapi_ | Qt is not the only one paying for Qt development |
| 21:23.00 | ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: meh, no effects or anyhting |
| 21:23.03 | djszapi_ | I was also paid for that |
| 21:23.17 | djszapi_ | without working in any sense for Nokia. |
| 21:23.31 | djszapi_ | but there are tons of others. |
| 21:24.03 | djszapi_ | and not just small subcontractors. |
| 21:24.05 | ieatlint | the commit logs already show the majority of qt work comes from nokia.. a lot from elsewhere, but we're still talking more than 2/3rds from nokia |
| 21:24.18 | ZogG_laptop | jonni: be strong |
| 21:24.24 | djszapi_ | ZogG_laptop: lol |
| 21:24.28 | jonni | yes there are tons of companies using qt and paying for devel, just saying that commit speed will decrease. |
| 21:24.44 | djszapi_ | jonni: except that, if those people go to other companies |
| 21:24.58 | ieatlint | especially since a lot of the other companies relied on nokia contracts that have since disappeared |
| 21:25.00 | djszapi_ | but yeah, will decrease some, but oh well |
| 21:25.08 | djszapi_ | it is more qt project'ish without a leader company anyways |
| 21:25.12 | djszapi_ | I feel this much better. |
| 21:25.36 | ieatlint | there's currently a scramble to see who gets the rights to qt, and that will be the real tell |
| 21:25.41 | djszapi_ | few companies are recruiting Qt devs heavily fwiw |
| 21:25.58 | ieatlint | a lot are, from what i've seen |
| 21:26.00 | djszapi_ | ieatlint: well, it is clear to me |
| 21:26.10 | djszapi_ | Qt Foundation is the way to go |
| 21:26.19 | djszapi_ | I did not see anything disagreeing |
| 21:26.19 | ieatlint | i know netflix was heavily courting the people out here in california |
| 21:26.22 | djszapi_ | anybody* |
| 21:26.30 | djszapi_ | the Qt community at the summit agreed upon that |
| 21:26.33 | azeem | well, Qt devs can be two things, (i) people who develop Qt, (ii) people who develop *with* Qt |
| 21:26.35 | djszapi_ | same at aKademy I talked to. |
| 21:26.53 | djszapi_ | azeem: no |
| 21:26.56 | djszapi_ | kde devs are kde devs |
| 21:26.57 | ieatlint | djszapi_: i don't recall a real consensus on that, and regardless, there's concern that there isn't enough time to form such a foundation |
| 21:27.00 | djszapi_ | qt devs are qt devs |
| 21:27.06 | azeem | oh sorry |
| 21:27.11 | djszapi_ | meego devs are meego devs |
| 21:27.14 | azeem | every Qt developer is a Qt hacker |
| 21:27.44 | djszapi_ | ieatlint: well, you have missed the Qt Foundation session |
| 21:27.54 | djszapi_ | there was a real consensus there. |
| 21:28.26 | ieatlint | djszapi_: then it's particularly funny i'm not too aware considering who proposed it :P |
| 21:28.40 | jonni | heh, and ofcourse Nokia can just decide that Qt is a danger to windows sales, and keep the rights and not give them out :) |
| 21:28.54 | djszapi_ | jonni: they cannot |
| 21:28.59 | djszapi_ | the stuff will go to KDE |
| 21:29.01 | djszapi_ | with BSD |
| 21:29.08 | djszapi_ | and fork will happen anyway |
| 21:29.12 | djszapi_ | it is just details ... |
| 21:29.15 | djszapi_ | the formality |
| 21:29.22 | ieatlint | probably |
| 21:29.24 | djszapi_ | the point is that, the community wanna have this under a foundation |
| 21:29.33 | djszapi_ | just linux the linux foundation works. |
| 21:29.37 | ieatlint | there's still a distant chance intel will take it, but yeah, most likely a fork |
| 21:29.54 | ieatlint | well, no, the qt foundation wasn't supposed to be like the linux foundation |
| 21:30.06 | ieatlint | the qt foundation was proposed to have real funding, and employ qt devs |
| 21:30.21 | ieatlint | whereas the linux foundation doesn't employee devs |
| 21:30.22 | djszapi_ | the linux foundation has real funding, and employ linux devs.... |
| 21:30.25 | djszapi_ | ofc it does |
| 21:30.33 | djszapi_ | Thiago said I think 600 |
| 21:30.38 | djszapi_ | at the session |
| 21:30.42 | djszapi_ | which is not a small amount |
| 21:31.01 | ieatlint | my understanding is that companies like intel commit employees to working on linux, but they're still intel employees |
| 21:31.13 | azeem | that's not the linux foundation |
| 21:31.22 | azeem | Linus and Morton work for the Linux Foundation, period |
| 21:31.27 | azeem | Greg KH as well now, I think |
| 21:31.29 | azeem | and others |
| 21:32.06 | djszapi_ | ieatlint: well, the idea is that there would be of course companies around |
| 21:32.13 | ieatlint | well, i may be wrong, but anyway, the foundation is moving too slow, and the assumption is that nokia will be making a decision in the next couple months |
| 21:32.16 | djszapi_ | but there would also be a core team in one place. |
| 21:32.35 | djszapi_ | and you would need to pay X percentages for commercial stuff |
| 21:32.39 | djszapi_ | and would not be tight to Digia |
| 21:32.41 | djszapi_ | or FooBar. |
| 21:32.44 | djszapi_ | sounds fair model to me. |
| 21:33.02 | djszapi_ | and way more open governed model than the Nokia stuff |
| 21:33.10 | ieatlint | sure... and the rumours say that digia's commercial licencing contract ends with qt5 |
| 21:33.15 | djszapi_ | they keep saying it is open governance, but only Nokia guys own the sysadmin stuff etc |
| 21:33.19 | djszapi_ | it is not fully yet... |
| 21:33.50 | ptl | Maybe they just separate companies and, like, make a new one just for Qt. It could have a name like - I don't know - trolltech? |
| 21:34.09 | djszapi_ | ptl: that is what we would like to avoid |
| 21:34.19 | djszapi_ | the community would like to avoid the company driven stuff |
| 21:34.22 | ieatlint | shrugs |
| 21:34.24 | djszapi_ | hence, qt foundation. |
| 21:34.33 | ptl | is it desirable? |
| 21:34.38 | djszapi_ | yes, very |
| 21:34.49 | ieatlint | my money is on digia getting it, and people getting angry and forking it |
| 21:34.53 | djszapi_ | pretty much everybody agreed there at the contributor summit from what I can tell. |
| 21:35.05 | ieatlint | only question is if digia sees the fallout that would occur and declines |
| 21:35.06 | djszapi_ | even Digia |
| 21:35.17 | ieatlint | digia was barely there |
| 21:35.20 | djszapi_ | Tuukka saw the same way |
| 21:35.23 | djszapi_ | sorry ? |
| 21:35.28 | djszapi_ | the Qt Director was in the first row |
| 21:35.34 | djszapi_ | right next to thiago iirc |
| 21:35.42 | ieatlint | yeah, about 5 people |
| 21:35.56 | djszapi_ | yeah, the people who decide... |
| 21:36.14 | ieatlint | dunno about that |
| 21:37.01 | djszapi_ | then you now know :) |
| 21:37.17 | ieatlint | well, i know tuuka isn't going to decide what digia does :P |
| 21:37.34 | djszapi_ | first, do not mispell his nme |
| 21:37.36 | djszapi_ | name* |
| 21:37.43 | djszapi_ | second, he decides about the future of Qt in Digia |
| 21:37.46 | djszapi_ | since he is the director |
| 21:38.27 | ieatlint | heh, you're impressively defensive.. my typo wasn't a slight on him |
| 21:38.38 | ieatlint | and i know him, he's local to me now, and i've seen him at countless meetups |
| 21:38.43 | ieatlint | he's a great guy |
| 21:39.11 | ieatlint | but my understanding of his position does not make him a director, something that indeed digia's own website confirms when i look him up on it |
| 21:40.36 | djszapi_ | whether it is fork or not, that is details |
| 21:40.55 | djszapi_ | what matters to me here is, how the Qt Foundation can stand up and get mature |
| 21:41.09 | djszapi_ | I have not seen much movement since aKademy, but oh well: this is summer time after all. |
| 21:41.50 | ieatlint | crazy europeans taking the entire summer off :P |
| 21:42.17 | djszapi_ | so I am not a "crazy european", yay :) |
| 21:43.39 | ieatlint | yeah, well, the average american can't locate your home country a map, so it doesn't count :P |
| 21:44.13 | ieatlint | (that's the advantage to unilaterally dictating such things to the world :) |
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| 21:44.39 | djszapi_ | which country do they know in Europe? |
| 21:47.24 | jonni | "europe" the area above africa :) |
| 21:48.28 | ieatlint | we can pretty much identify england (but not the uk), ireland, france, germany, italy and spain |
| 21:48.40 | ieatlint | a few people can identify amsterdam, but not the netherlands |
| 21:50.10 | djszapi_ | lol |
| 21:50.40 | ieatlint | you think i'm kidding? :P |
| 21:52.03 | djszapi_ | well, Europe is difficult continent :p |
| 21:52.08 | djszapi_ | a* |
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| 22:14.33 | ptl | "above" -> not if your globe has the north down. |
| 22:15.15 | ptl | the developed countries are not "above" the developing countries. This is a culturally imposed convention. |
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| 23:51.54 | jesuschrist^ | how is that nokia ppl are still answering on the nokia dev forum ? |
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