IRC log for #harmattan on 20121103

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05:47.49DJKillcrazyHello, I am a wanna-be N9 enthusiast.
05:47.55DJKillcrazyCan anyone help me?
05:48.05bluefoxpossibly
05:48.29DJKillcrazyI have to buy you sushi first? ;p
05:49.06bluefoxwouldn't turn you down, but i just don't know everything unfortunately, however i can certainly try
05:50.22DJKillcrazyI am about this close to plunking down $395 USD for a 64GB model but I have a few lingering doubts . . .
05:50.58bluefoxwell, what would you like to know? had an N9 for about a year now and an N950 for not nearly as long
05:51.57DJKillcrazyI see you're in the UK. Know of any US users in here?
05:52.15bluefoxi'm actually in the US
05:52.23DJKillcrazyOh. Sweet.
05:53.21DJKillcrazyHow do I tell if my seller is giving me a 110 compatible charger, and what do I do if they turn out to be lying?
05:54.42bluefoxpretty much every piece of electronics these days works with 100-240v
05:55.05bluefoxif the seller is giving you the original charger, it won't have the correct plug of course
05:55.38bluefoxyou can just use an adapter or a charger of your own
05:56.11bluefoxit just charges off micro usb, so pretty much anything will do (no barrel connector like older nokias)
05:56.12DJKillcrazyWas there any truth to the phonenews.com rumor Nokia was selling directly in the US, hence the seller has a unit with an OEM US plug?
05:56.44bluefoxi've seen a few US stores carry it (even newegg for example), but it was always an import model
05:57.23DJKillcrazyWhat about full size USB? I currently run an iPhone 3GS
05:57.57DJKillcrazyOr could I go the Euro to US power adaptor route?
05:57.58bluefoxdoes your charger have a usb port and then you just use one of the apple specific usb cables?
05:58.13DJKillcrazyYep.
05:58.20bluefoxcan go either way then
05:58.27bluefoxjust use the included usb cable in place of the apple one
05:58.30bluefoxor an adapter
05:59.07DJKillcrazyHmmm, nice.
05:59.11bluefoxi use an HTC charger at work and a sony ericsson one at home
05:59.28bluefoxcould even charge it off a computer if you were so inclined
05:59.35DJKillcrazyFunny notion to be plugging into the Apple charger. Hadn't thought of that.
05:59.52bluefoxif you do go with the adapter route, you'll want to inquire as to what regional variant it is to get the correct adapter
06:00.20bluefoxmine has a UK plug for example and is a bit inconvenient with an adapter due to the size of the huge grounding pin on it
06:00.53DJKillcrazyYeah, and hope they actually know. It's a US ebay seller who apparently bought a bulk quantity.
06:01.26bluefoxi'd just stick with your apple charger for ease of use personally
06:01.56DJKillcrazyHmmm so I already asked AT&T a while ago and they said yes, but what carrier do you use?
06:02.02bluefoxat&t
06:02.34bluefoxsince it is an unlocked and unbranded smartphone, you can actually use their dumbphone data plan with it (medianet)
06:02.36DJKillcrazyHmmmmm how's the email app work with Gmail?
06:02.41bluefoxworks just fine
06:02.43DJKillcrazyO_O
06:02.54DJKillcrazyNo shit!?
06:02.57bluefoxyes
06:02.57DJKillcrazysorry lol
06:03.02bluefoxbeen doing that for years
06:03.11bluefox$10 per line if you have a family plan and it's unlimited as well
06:03.12DJKillcrazyand still get 3G data speeds?
06:03.15bluefoxyes
06:03.45bluefoxsince you already have an iphone, you'll be on the regular $30 data plan
06:04.05DJKillcrazyer, no, don't have a family plan. And I'm none too impressed with their latest shared data plan maneouverings
06:04.06bluefoxyou'll need to call them up after you swap SIM cards to change it if you wish
06:04.25bluefoxah, well, i think it's $15 then
06:04.34DJKillcrazySo they'll actually let me downgrade?
06:04.40bluefoxyeah
06:04.48bluefoxessentially how it works
06:05.14DJKillcrazyI'm grandfathered to the $25 2GB plan now.
06:05.15bluefoxis any at&t branded phone (and the iphone) gets flagged in their system because they have a database of IMEIs (essentially serial numbers for phones)
06:05.35bluefoxnot in their database and they haven't a clue what it is
06:05.42DJKillcrazybahaha!
06:05.48bluefox(at which point they'll ask you and it's up to you to tell them what it is)
06:06.03DJKillcrazy"It's a tuna sandwich."
06:06.27bluefoxbefore all the lumia devices came out, i told them i had a nokia and they automatically assumed i had a 10 year old POS :P
06:06.37DJKillcrazyHAHAHA
06:06.52bluefoxdo note though that if you do use the cheap data plan
06:07.04bluefoxand swap SIM cards to a phone that is in their database
06:07.15bluefoxthey'll spam you with SMS about it and then automatically switch you over eventually i think
06:07.20bluefoxdon't hold me to it though
06:07.54DJKillcrazyMakes me wonder if the gig would be up if I told them it's an N9, wonder if they'd even bother to look up what it is.
06:08.20bluefoxi doubt they'd have any idea what it is
06:08.39bluefoxdoesn't matter what you tell them though...they just need the IMEI when you call up
06:09.02bluefoxdon't forget to visit a store or get a SIM card cutter too
06:09.17DJKillcrazyAnd the IMEI doesn't identify that it's a smartphone?
06:09.20DJKillcrazycutter?
06:09.39bluefoxno, unless it's at&t branded (or the iphone), they haven't a clue what it is for the most part
06:09.48bluefoxyeah, your iphone uses a regular SIM card
06:09.58bluefoxN9 uses a micro SIM (like the newer iphones)
06:10.36bluefoxthey actually tried to charge me $30 for a micro SIM when i visited a store, but were more than willing to give me a regular one and immediately cut it for me down to micro SIM size...go figure
06:10.37DJKillcrazyI'm still finding it hard to believe they won't push back on me a little bit downgrading from a smartphone to an alleged non-smartphone but still using data.
06:10.44bluefoxwell
06:10.49bluefoxare you still under contract?
06:10.55bluefoxif so, stuck with it until that's over
06:11.04bluefoxif not, you're free to change it as you please
06:11.30DJKillcrazyNo I'm free and clear.
06:11.41bluefoxhave at it then
06:11.50DJKillcrazy's hed spins
06:12.36bluefoxwell, lets face it, at&t kinda screws you normally :P
06:12.43DJKillcrazyNow, I'm probably in the wrong place for this, but boy do I wish it had PureView phase 1 tech in it!
06:13.01bluefoxyeah, the 808's camera certainly is nice
06:13.11DJKillcrazyThat's why I can't imagine them screwing themselves!
06:13.24DJKillcrazyYeah, I'm rather torn.
06:14.17DJKillcrazyDefinitely leaning N9, even though what originally wetted my appetite was the 808.
06:14.31bluefoxwell, most of their employees couldn't care less since there isn't much they can do...you could even lower your minutes and remove SMS if you really wanted to
06:14.42bluefoxjoys of being contract free (not that you'd want to more than likely)
06:15.27DJKillcrazyOh I know. I've been contract free all along (with them at least)
06:15.27bluefoxas nice as the 808 is, i do really prefer my N9
06:15.44bluefoxdo actually have another symbian phone in the house (E7)
06:15.58bluefoxdecent, but man, hard to beat it...really need to use it to understand
06:16.10bluefoxand yes, bit biased :P
06:18.10DJKillcrazyI can definitely appreciate a slick interface.
06:18.55bluefoxmain draw for me was that and how it handles multitasking
06:19.05DJKillcrazyI declare Nokia severe assholes for jumping in bed with MSFT at such a time.
06:19.07bluefoxwhich symbian does do too, but not nearly as well in my opinion
06:19.16bluefoxyeah, elop ruined it :(
06:20.08bluefoxnot that the windows based devices aren't good, but after having seen the unreleased devices that have surfaced recently, rather disappointed
06:20.12DJKillcrazyAnd who knows what Jolla will do, but it's extremely unlikely Nokia will license them any PureView tech.
06:20.59DJKillcrazyI'm sure they're nice hardware, but I don't do MSFT anymore, if I can help it.
06:21.20DJKillcrazyNot for 10+ years.
06:21.29bluefoxi don't think you'll be seeing the pureview incarnation from the 808 in any other phones for a while
06:21.52DJKillcrazyFortunate and unfortunate at the same time.
06:21.55bluefoxdoesn't really fit in for nokia to release more high end symbian devices
06:22.11bluefoxnor does it really fit in with the form factor and whatnot of all the windows based ones
06:22.34DJKillcrazyNo, I'm sure the 808 is the last Symbian smartphone ever.
06:22.55bluefoxwell, high end ones...they keep putting out other ones
06:23.11bluefoxi was actually half tempted to replace my m4/3 camera with one
06:23.58bluefoxbut after the large pile of money i spent on acquiring an N950, don't see that happening
06:25.09DJKillcrazyEh, to me, a smartphone needs to be high end to actually be a smartphone. All those cheap shit Criket phones running Android 1.8 don't count.
06:25.36DJKillcrazyYou still have it?
06:25.39bluefoxthe N950?
06:26.10DJKillcrazyYeah, I didn't think you could buy those, just demo only.
06:26.18bluefoxyeah, you can't
06:26.22bluefoxi got lucky
06:26.29DJKillcrazySo they demo wasn't free?
06:26.37bluefoxit was...for the original owner
06:27.01DJKillcrazyAnd Nokia didn't butcher him/her when it wasn't returned?
06:27.19bluefoxi don't they've been asking for any of them back actually
06:30.16bluefoxfew floating around on ebay...last one went for $1200
06:31.09DJKillcrazyAre they actually better than N9s, hardware-wise?
06:31.18bluefoxyes and no
06:31.32bluefoxit has a keyboard (main draw)
06:31.36DJKillcrazyAnd can't you dev for Harmattan without one?
06:31.40DJKillcrazyOh yeah.
06:31.43bluefoxyou can
06:32.07bluefoxit does have a smaller battery, no nfc, and a different kind of screen
06:32.11DJKillcrazyDon't need a physical KB.
06:32.31bluefoxguess you could swing either way...OLED pentile vs regular lcd
06:32.48DJKillcrazyWhich is pentile?
06:32.51bluefoxpersonal preference i think but most would lean towards the N9 there
06:33.14DJKillcrazyEr, has*
06:33.32bluefoxinstead of having full RGB subpixels for each one
06:33.54bluefoxit has green for every one and alternating red and blue for each one
06:34.31DJKillcrazyNo no, I know what pentile is.
06:34.40bluefoxoh, right, sorry
06:34.42bluefoxthe N9 has that
06:34.44DJKillcrazyWhich one has pentile?
06:35.04DJKillcrazyOh. Bummer, but then so does the 808.
06:35.25bluefoxyeah, but so does every high end smartphone these days
06:35.36DJKillcrazyAnd from what I can tell, N9 has a much better screen than 808, even being pentile.
06:35.38bluefoxit isn't really bad or even noticeable
06:35.43bluefoxscreen looks spectacular
06:35.47DJKillcrazyNot iPhone ;0
06:36.11bluefoxwell, OLED screens
06:36.18DJKillcrazyYeah.
06:36.38bluefoxnexus line, samsung galaxy, htc's current offering, etc
06:36.54DJKillcrazyThough I think there is some new megadick 'droid with a non-pentile AMOLED.
06:37.11bluefoxah well, i don't want a huge 5" phone anyway...
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06:37.49bluefoxdo have an android phone too for work, but it isn't top of the line
06:38.38DJKillcrazyI dunno. I'm liking the idea of more screen realestate. And I mostly wear cargo pants so it's not like I'm worried about pocket fit.
06:39.02bluefoxwell, personal preference there
06:39.15bluefoxi quite like the 3.7/4" group though
06:39.57DJKillcrazySee, I just can't imagine having more than one active phone. For work it's understandable, but for me a non-issue and why I'm so torn:
06:40.27DJKillcrazyKinda pointless having a real camera eliminating 808 if I have to use another smartphone anyway.
06:40.42bluefoxyeah
06:41.30bluefoxi was going to use SIP on my N9, but i get SMS spam from all our monitoring stuff, so can't really turn that off like i can another phone
06:42.16DJKillcrazyI've been wanting each for a while now, but also an iPhone 5 . . . until I found out they expanded the screen size vertically only
06:43.20bluefoxnot a big fan of the iphone personally, but in terms of looks and form factor, certainly a step up
06:45.28DJKillcrazyOnly advantage is it gave it native 16:9 video capability
06:46.24bluefoxso, same as the N9 now :P
06:46.32DJKillcrazyBut I would rather they'd made it a little wider too AND 16:9, even if that meant making it 4.2-4.3 inch
06:46.34bluefoxthough i don't think i've ever watched any video on it
06:47.47DJKillcrazyI watch a fair amount of youtube and other streamed video.
06:48.00bluefoxah, certainly important then
06:48.22bluefoxi guess i could do it when i take the train to work, but i tend to just stick to spotify then
06:50.22DJKillcrazyI just come across lots of stuff in my mobile browsing, plus social situations.
06:50.33bluefoxah
06:50.39bluefoxthe N9 does have flash! :D
06:50.50bluefox(you have to install firefox for it)
06:51.19DJKillcrazyFlash is a dying beast.
06:51.27DJKillcrazyGood riddance.
06:51.47tehdelyevery now and then, it comes in real, real handy
06:51.56tehdelyone of the reasons i don't want to give up my N9 for a good long while
06:53.30bluefoxi like terminal better :P
06:55.19DJKillcrazyYes, every now and then I come across a website thoroughly stuck in a 10 years ago design mentality, and have some problems.
06:55.40bluefoxtables and frames!
06:56.01DJKillcrazyThat'd be 15 ;)
06:56.30tehdelyi had one such website just today
06:56.38tehdelythanks to my N9 + fennec + flash i was able to watch a livestream...
06:56.42tehdelyof a gas station in brooklyn
06:56.44tehdelytalk about lines
06:56.46tehdelyo:
06:56.51bluefoxyou'd be surprised at how much old stuff there's still floating around
06:57.06bluefoxi saw a production pentium 2 box at one of the datacenters i work in today :(
06:57.24tehdelyyeesh
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06:57.35tehdelyi feel bile rising just seeing something running rhel4
06:57.40bluefoxyou'd be surprised what people pay to colocate
06:57.58bluefoxat least it was running windows 2000 instead of NT...i dare not touch it however
06:58.54bluefoxi can imagine how crazy the situation in NYC still is though
06:59.39DJKillcrazyIt's cause a lot of the regional gas distribution centers are still closed
07:02.00bluefoxah, that would do it
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07:04.13DJKillcrazyParticularly for Brooklyn and Newark.
07:04.47DJKillcrazyWas a segment about it on NPR on my ride home today.
07:07.33bluefoxwell, hopefully won't be too long before everything gets back to normal there
07:09.39DJKillcrazyOkay, need rest. I will likely grill you about apps tomorrow ;)
07:09.44DJKillcrazyThanks
07:09.45bluefoxsure thing
07:09.47bluefoxno problem
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14:48.04ZogG_laptopbeford: :P
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14:58.21ZogG_laptopVenemo: sup my old friend :)
14:59.18Venemohey ZogG_laptop, I'm fine :)
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15:00.12VenemoZogG_laptop, how are you?
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15:04.48ZogG_laptopVenemo: not bad
15:04.54ZogG_laptoptrying to start developing for bb10 :P
15:04.59Venemome too
15:05.03Venemobut no bb10 device yet
15:06.49ZogG_laptopi got playbook as well
15:07.16ZogG_laptopit's funny how playbook design reminds first version of linux DE's and that it's putted on tablet
15:07.23ZogG_laptophope they update it to bb10 soon
15:07.43ZogG_laptopas browser, keyboard and UI elements are much better on bb10 :P
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15:30.00GeneralAntillesVenemo, when's IRC Chatter development resuming? :P
15:32.00ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles: evening
15:32.12ZogG_laptopVenemo: btw it would be nice to see it on bb10 as well
15:32.15GeneralAntillesHey-oh
15:32.40GeneralAntillesI keep getting disconnected without it noticing
15:32.47ZogG_laptopok i asked venemo in private some noob programming related question and i'm gonna repeat it here
15:32.52GeneralAntillesand there's some weird case sensitivity issue with some channels.
15:33.06ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles: on n9 btw?
15:33.16GeneralAntillesN950
15:33.32VenemoGeneralAntilles, hey
15:33.46Venemoyep, its current state is quite embarassing
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15:34.08GeneralAntillesIt's quite a slick client
15:34.18GeneralAntillesJust got a few bugs that need ironing.
15:34.19Venemowell, it has a bunch of annoying bugs
15:34.40VenemoI'll look into it when I can, but don't have too much free time nowadays
15:35.06GeneralAntillesSeems to be the story of everybody's lives these days. :(
15:35.16Venemounfortunately, yes
15:35.35Venemoin the meantime, you can file bug reports about the stuff in the Nemo bugzilla
15:38.23ZogG_laptop7:29   ZogG_laptop: btw about programming
15:38.24ZogG_laptop17:29   ZogG_laptop: i need small advice
15:39.01ZogG_laptop17:29  17:29   ZogG_laptop: if i have list of items
15:39.01ZogG_laptop17:29   ZogG_laptop: and each item have presonal data
15:39.01ZogG_laptop17:30   ZogG_laptop: should i declare list of data as item or use item with  parameters i need ?
15:39.04ZogG_laptop17:31   ZogG_laptop: including that i would need to use it twice as i would  display item with all data on single page and in list as  one of items of list with only few values
15:39.11VenemoGeneralAntilles, you were saying, case sensitivity issues with channel names?
15:39.37VenemoGeneralAntilles, and disconnecting, yeah, that's an annoying topic.
15:39.54VenemoI implemented a way of detecting disconnections and automatically reconnecting
15:40.11Venemowhich always worked when I tested it, but never worked when I actually were using the app
15:40.30GeneralAntillesHaha
15:40.48GeneralAntillesConnection migrations usually require restarting the application
15:41.05VenemoI know
15:41.12GeneralAntillesI can /msg nickserv info and it'll respond in a second NickServ tab.
15:41.33Venemothe annoying thing is that it detects disconnections (displays a dialog saying that it's disconnected) but then fails to reconnect...
15:41.36GeneralAntillesThere's a channel on another network where half the room is in #foo and the other half is in #FOO
15:41.42Venemoyeah
15:42.19Venemothat's very annoying too
15:44.07GeneralAntillesStripping HTML from highlights so I don't get <span... etc on my MetaWatch
15:44.21GeneralAntillesand private message notifications should include the sender nick
15:44.25GeneralAntillesblah blah blah
15:45.03GeneralAntillesI keep gearing myself to dive in and look at the source but run out of energy.
15:45.23Venemono problem
15:45.28Venemonah, let me look at this
15:45.31GeneralAntillesOnly actual feature request would be tab changing with volume buttons.
15:45.37GeneralAntillesOtherwise I really like it.
15:45.48javispedrooh, HTML in notifications?
15:45.50javispedrodoes it work?
15:45.59Venemono, it does not.
15:46.02javispedroah
15:46.18Venemothat's exactly the issue: the HTML annoyingly appears in the notification texts
15:46.36javispedroI remember I tried to figure the logic behind the "2 new emailsGARBAGE_UNICODE2 new emails" notifications that I get sometimes
15:46.51GeneralAntillesThe case sensitivity issue is really the only major irritant
15:46.52GeneralAntillesThe connectivity issues are easily worked around with ZNC
15:47.35VenemoZNC?
15:48.17ZogG_laptopi think it's like irssi proxy
15:48.21ZogG_laptopirc*
15:48.46ZogG_laptopas i started to use irssi for a while now i call irc as irssi some times lately :P
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15:51.35Venemolol at me
15:51.46VenemoI don't even remember when I made the last release ans what I did since then
15:52.00ZogG_laptopand probably u was drunk :)
15:52.06ZogG_laptopjocking
15:53.21Venemohehe
15:53.26Venemosometimes I feel like I was lol
15:53.28Venemohm
15:53.37Venemoand I just reproduced the most annoying bug ever
15:53.53VenemoI think arie reported it on Twitter
15:54.03Venemoapp fails to connect
15:54.24ZogG_laptopi hate when to work with api you need key and there is no response samples or demo key
15:54.54ZogG_laptopVenemo: release it liek that and giv a come name "airplane mode:
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15:55.06ZogG_laptops/:/"/
15:55.13ZogG_laptoplol
15:55.46Venemolol
15:55.56GeneralAntillesClearly this calls for a Kickstarter campaign.
15:56.10Venemomhm
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15:57.38Venemook GeneralAntilles, connection bug now reproduced too
15:57.41Venemowhat a lucky day this i
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15:58.32GeneralAntillesHooray
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16:03.20Venemodafuq, the error lies in the underlying library and appears to be a regression
16:03.54Venemonah, I need to get away for a little bit, but I'm on the right track. will do some debugging and get back to you
16:04.06VenemoGeneralAntilles, I'll ping you on twitter once the issue has been solved
16:18.00ketasi need to reflash my n9 to get sms out of it?
16:18.02ketasbleh
16:22.13ZogG_laptopwtf is slug?
16:26.49virtualdslug is akin to snail but has no house
16:27.46ketasor maybe it's type of lug
16:28.08ketaslike, location of lug
16:28.55GeneralAntillesvirtuald, well put.
16:32.57ZogG_laptoplol
16:33.02ZogG_laptopi checked what is slug
16:33.17ZogG_laptopi mean the slug in web technology or languages
16:37.03ZogG_laptopBy now, many of you have seen where a URL contains text similar to the the page's title. For example, the URL may look like http://www.domain.com/this-is-my-best-article.aspx instead of http://www.domain.com/bestarticle.aspx. Text converted from a regular string, that can appear within a URL this way is called a "slug."
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22:31.40VenemoGeneralAntilles, good news for you
22:32.04VenemoGeneralAntilles, both errors have been fixed, along with a few other things that've been annoying me
22:32.09GeneralAntilleswoo!
22:33.01VenemoGeneralAntilles, I'm doing some more testing and then will give you a package if you're interested in trying
22:36.15ZogG_laptopVenemo: timeout from you client ^
22:36.30ZogG_laptopVenemo: as well you can upload it to apps4meego if it's still alive
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22:39.56GeneralAntillesVenemo, yes.
22:40.15GeneralAntillesI sure am good at getting people to use their free time to fulfill my goals, yes I am. :D
22:40.42ZogG_laptop:P
22:40.44VenemoZogG_laptop, I've got no idea how to do that
22:40.47VenemoGeneralAntilles, lol :P
22:41.09VenemoGeneralAntilles, they've been annying me as well. just my own annoyance wasn't motivation enough :P
22:41.09ZogG_laptopVenemo: not that hard actually
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22:41.22ZogG_laptopbut then maybe next time :)
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22:41.46GeneralAntillesI think they call this "facilitation"
22:42.10VenemoGeneralAntilles, and since I was already there, I also took the opportunity to implement a few things I wanted to do anyway
22:44.31GeneralAntillesAwesome
22:44.54GeneralAntillesIRC is one of my few remaining irritants in Harmattan compared to Maemo.
22:54.48ZogG_laptopdamn i got lost in eclipse, i can't find how to add existing project
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23:31.16Venemohm
23:31.21Venemoseems that I don't have scratchbox now
23:31.32Venemocan Qt Creator make a package properly nowadays?
23:39.08jonniusually yes, sometimes you need to tweak though
23:39.20Venemoeh.
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23:50.15Venemook, let's see this
23:50.40VenemoGeneralAntilles, I've done the stuff. now packaging & installing the package to see if it's ok
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23:53.30Venemo_N9This thing seems to be working

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