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| 10:21.22 | DJKillcrazy | RzR: Wonder what the vulnerability is? |
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| 16:31.56 | Pali | ping jonni |
| 16:32.42 | Pali | I do not understand mmc arguments of fiasco-gen |
| 16:32.55 | Pali | there are: |
| 16:32.58 | Pali | --mmc=ARG Location of MMC image |
| 16:33.05 | Pali | --mmc-append=ARG MMC raw image to append |
| 16:33.11 | Pali | --mmc-partition=ARG Partition for MMC raw image (in layout) |
| 16:33.25 | Pali | --layout=ARG Specify layout file for previous image |
| 16:34.07 | Pali | jonni, I have layout file and mmc FS image. what other params doing? |
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| 16:37.06 | jonni | Pali: fiasco-gen is useless to you unless you have device with R&D certificate :) |
| 16:37.31 | Pali | jonni, fiasco-gen for N900 |
| 16:37.51 | Pali | both harmattan & fremantle generate same FIASCO image |
| 16:38.02 | jonni | Pali: even if you generate an image, it will not be flashable to normal devices without signing it with master key for N9. |
| 16:38.13 | jonni | Pali: or are you trying only to make N900 images? |
| 16:38.31 | Pali | jonni, I'm trying it for N900 images |
| 16:38.42 | Pali | I have rewritten 0xFFFF flasher for N900 |
| 16:39.03 | Pali | and I need to be sure that 0xFFFF generating mmc fiasco images correctly |
| 16:39.57 | Pali | jonni, do you know that above 4 arguments for fiasco-gen doing? |
| 16:43.26 | jonni | well ofcourse I do, although you really only need 2 of them |
| 16:46.15 | Pali | I think I need --mmc and --layout |
| 16:46.28 | Pali | jonni, and what doing other two? |
| 16:47.31 | jonni | those are only for subimages |
| 16:48.58 | Pali | what is subimage? |
| 16:55.39 | jonni | you can have flash images inside of another flash images, but that is rarely used and goes under NDA I think. |
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| 16:59.40 | jonni | and with layout you can also do all kinds of nice trickery forexample that it doesnt destroy the data underneath, ie it would only patch&update the files that you want to be updated, keeping the rest of the files unchanged. |
| 17:00.29 | jonni | I used to make addon mmc images, that you just install the stuff that I wanted on top of the official image. |
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| 17:16.10 | Pali | jonni, is there any tool for generating mmc layouts? |
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| 19:09.46 | jonni | Pali: any text editor like vi or nano :) |
| 19:10.39 | Pali | jonni, and some documentation about format? |
| 19:15.01 | GeneralAntilles | What cache do I need to delete to get Twitter to stop hanging on EVERY SINGLE operation? |
| 19:15.05 | jonni | there is documentation, but afaik not public |
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| 19:16.57 | pa | lol |
| 19:18.44 | Pali | hm... stupid... fiasco-gen is public, but documentation how to use it - not |
| 19:19.31 | jonni | Pali: well documentation is in the same directory as fiasco-gen.c file if you have the sources |
| 19:20.02 | Pali | I do not have sources... |
| 19:20.38 | jonni | well, then fiasco-gen is not really public, there just were one old version of it avail in fremantle :) |
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| 19:24.32 | Pali | jonni, no harmattan fiasco-gen is (or was when harmattan-dev.nokia.com was up) public too |
| 19:25.13 | Pali | SDK apt repo in nokia-binaries |
| 19:25.19 | jonni | Pali: afaik it was binary only |
| 19:25.57 | Pali | yes, but binary was for public use |
| 19:26.58 | jonni | Pali: well not really, binary was used only by nokia internal components, or can you say which 3rd party app was using it? :) |
| 19:27.31 | Pali | in fremantle *every* kernel package |
| 19:28.16 | Pali | from extras(-devel) |
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| 19:29.49 | jonni | 3rd party app, meaning ovi store 3rd party application, so none? |
| 19:30.56 | jonni | but yes, I can see that some developers would use it on fremantle kernels. |
| 19:31.36 | Pali | to flash kernel on n900 directly, you need to pack zImage to fiasco. so fiasco-gen was needed for that |
| 19:32.09 | Pali | because n900 scripts on device can flash only fiasco images |
| 19:32.52 | Pali | btw SW for Maemo5 is distributed in Maemo Extras (only some are in ovi store) |
| 19:32.54 | jonni | yep and in N9 they can only flash _signed_fiasco images (or if you have R&D cert you can flash anything) |
| 19:34.32 | Pali | hm, now I found some info in flasher-3.11.5 (part of old N950 image): flasher-3.11.5 --howto=make_fiasco |
| 19:34.55 | Pali | but there is only example layout file |
| 19:35.06 | Pali | (which I can extract from existing fiasco image) |
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| 19:45.59 | Pali | jonni, you can look at open source fasher & fiasco generator 0xFFFF: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=87996 |
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| 20:01.25 | LOLfire | "make_fiasco"? Cool. |
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| 20:05.12 | jonni | Pali: unfortunately I cannot give feedback to 0xffff application, since my eyes have been tainted with internal flasher sources and most likely helping you too much would break NDA. |
| 20:06.20 | Pali | but you still can look at 0xFFFF code :-) |
| 20:08.06 | kubahaha | Can i ask for help here? |
| 20:08.21 | kubahaha | Anybody know, where is CSS for applauncher? i change icon size using one app, but i don't know how to restore it to normal. |
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| 20:10.22 | RzR | hi jonni how do you the future for Harmman-dev ? |
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| 20:24.25 | pa | jonni, would helping me with the qtlocation plugin that ships with nokia cityscene also break nda? :) |
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| 21:11.24 | ZogG_laptop | jonni helping everyone like always :) |
| 21:16.09 | ZogG_laptop | btw if anyone knows if email stoped syncing and every reboot deletes all alarms and set ringtone to other song from music collection is related to tracker problems or what can be the cause? |
| 21:19.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonni: (break NDA) WTF you signed? I never seen an NDA that forbids using own knowledge |
| 21:22.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonni: so, while "you must use litte-endian in 'struct XY' since that's what I've seen in this other app" for sure is not allowed, general notes like "in struct XY there are two possibilities to define the variable: little endian and big endian" for sure is no problem |
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| 21:34.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonni: I know about friggin insane NDAs of Nokia, I ran into them at ST-E when I was interested in some internal 'linux' repo. But even while they ask you to sign in blood, they don't own your brain |
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| 21:39.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | even the toughest clean-room RE implementations of patent covered proprietary M$ et al shite don't require that the devels testify that they never had a look into any original binary disassembly or other source of info |
| 21:41.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | generally speaking what's in your brain is yours, as long as nobody can *prove* that you must have learnt it from some NDA'd source they own |
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| 21:51.52 | SpeedEvil | prove may not be the issue |
| 21:51.58 | SpeedEvil | legal costs can be |
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| 21:52.57 | SpeedEvil | if you can demonstrate you did the full clean room thing, a challenge is much more likely to get thrown out quickly. |
| 21:59.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: jonni said "unfortunately I cannot give feedback to 0xffff application, since my eyes have been tainted with internal flasher sources and most likely helping you too much would break NDA" -- I don't think any legal case can get constructed from jonni just helping, as long as he doesn't quote from internal sources verbatim, or discloses facts that can't get deduced in any other way |
| 22:01.15 | SpeedEvil | probably |
| 22:01.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW for example commenting on a disassembler listing, no matter how inspired the comment, can't break any NDA. |
| 22:02.57 | SpeedEvil | it may if you are using imparting aquired under the NDA |
| 22:03.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | general advice like "most promising approach would be to protocol and analyze the USB traffic" also can't be illegal |
| 22:04.05 | SpeedEvil | depending on the terms |
| 22:05.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | generally nope, any conclusion I utter is my *own* conclusion, no matter on which experience it's based |
| 22:07.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | no contractor can ask other contractor to roll back own expertise and forget what he learned during some period of his professional life. You may be obliged to not disclose *facts* (as in data), but your expertise that's leading to conclusions and notions can't get deprived or disowned from you, no matter how you acquired it |
| 22:09.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why some contracts forbid employment with a direct competitior for a period of 6 months to max 2 years after current contract ends. But that's about maximm they can do about that |
| 22:11.03 | *** join/#harmattan Milhouse (~irc_milho@Maemo/community/contributor/Milhouse) |
| 22:11.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | and those clauses are included to contratcs particularly because they can't forbid you usuing your knowledge you acquired during work for them |
| 22:11.37 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 22:11.58 | SpeedEvil | I shouldn't comment on stuff I have marginal knowledge of when half asleep :-) |
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| 22:12.39 | ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: not in mood today ? :P |
| 22:12.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | mood? |
| 22:13.10 | ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: oh i forgot u are the robot |
| 22:13.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, you lost me |
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| 22:13.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | nevertheless I assume it's been a joke, so: hahaha |
| 22:14.37 | ZogG_laptop | sup? |
| 22:20.37 | pa | ZogG_laptop, i dont know wtf with alarms either |
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| 22:22.12 | ZogG_laptop | pa: u have it too? |
| 22:22.14 | pa | and why it started now to delete them |
| 22:22.15 | pa | yes |
| 22:22.18 | pa | they disappear |
| 22:22.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | simple example: when for some project we [company/team] evaluate which of md5sum or sha-nnn is more safe, or less cpu demanding, nobody can forbid me using this knowledge later on in any context. I mustn't disclose what were the exact results of those evaluations the team did, like in % or iterations needed to break stuff, but a statement like "use SHA, I know it's more safe" is not liable |
| 22:22.24 | pa | but mails still sync |
| 22:22.37 | pa | MfE mails/Google Mails |
| 22:22.47 | pa | MfE has a little more trouble to do so, tho |
| 22:23.02 | ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: we got your point. but you can agree that people ca ndisagree with you |
| 22:24.09 | pa | anyway, i believe that some anonymous insider info about harmattan would be good to have, especially now that the project has been terminated |
| 22:24.23 | pa | i would expect these info to leak somehow |
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| 22:36.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | ZogG_laptop: I'm not interested in anybody disagreeing with me or not. If you got a conflicting point of view, try to explain it. If you're bored to hear about the topic, put me on ignore or shout "OT". Don't teach me about life and that there might be people that disagree with me, since when there were none I wouldn't have to write a single word |
| 22:40.15 | ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: i'll just quote you "Don't teach me about life" |
| 22:40.50 | ZogG_laptop | you exactly doing it right now and as i disagreed you tell me not to teach you? |
| 22:41.19 | ZogG_laptop | it's not always about proving something |
| 22:42.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's your damn point, except pissing at my leg? |
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| 22:44.23 | ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: nothing i just wanted to stop flame here but you took it too serious |
| 22:44.43 | ZogG_laptop | i'm too tired and depressed right now to fight and prove something :P |
| 22:44.53 | ZogG_laptop | so again - sup, man? |
| 22:45.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | okay, you just made it on my ignore list (again) |
| 22:48.08 | ZogG_laptop | damn |
| 22:48.13 | ZogG_laptop | what did i say wrong |
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| 22:48.23 | ZogG_laptop | why people just hate each other for no reason |
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| 23:09.44 | itsnotabigtruck | does anyone know of any sort of cell diagnostic programs for harmattan |
| 23:10.15 | itsnotabigtruck | could really use something like that right now with my downlink being fubar (but only at some locations) |
| 23:10.51 | itsnotabigtruck | or some way to make CSD (or whatever) produce profuse amounts of log output |
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| 23:16.46 | itsnotabigtruck | also, glad to see the same people getting into the same ridiculous tiffs :/ |
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| 23:50.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | <ZogG_laptop> DocScrutinizer05: we got your point [== stop boring *us* with your shit]. but you can agree that people ca ndisagree with you [== you're a real moron, and I let you know by telling you a total banality that nevertheless implies you didn't see or knew about it] <what's your point...> <ZogG_laptop> DocScrutinizer05: nothing [! ???] i just wanted to stop flame here [what friggin flame?] but you took it too serious [ |
| 23:50.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, I take it too serious when somebody tries to stop me from something I'm not even aware I did, and he does so by absolutely inappropriate means even if the initial assumption about there being any 'flame' was correct] |