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| 01:11.05 | lucificifus | afternoon all :) |
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| 02:22.03 | phongred | hi all |
| 02:22.15 | phongred | hello lucificifus |
| 02:22.21 | phongred | good morning |
| 02:22.22 | lucificifus | hello hello :) |
| 02:22.38 | phongred | sorry how old are you? |
| 02:23.16 | phongred | :D |
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| 03:26.25 | DeadlyNinja | can i permanently ruin a blueangel by flashing it, or should i always be able to restore it with the serial line in a worst-case scenario? |
| 03:32.36 | DeadlyNinja | is most of the development going on with the htc-universal or does the blue angel still get attention? |
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| 03:47.18 | DeadlyNinja | can someone walk me through a WM2005 update |
| 04:04.09 | Ralith | DeadlyNinja, what's to walk through? Plug it in, run the exe, and don't touch anything but the 'next' buttons |
| 04:27.45 | DeadlyNinja | Ralith, im just afraid ill screw up and brick it somehow |
| 04:27.57 | DeadlyNinja | the wikis are written sort of poorly |
| 04:30.06 | Ralith | nah, they're just disorganized and hard to get around if you don't know the context |
| 04:30.26 | Ralith | I speak as having tried to unlock my Universal with the Hermes unlocker earlier today :P |
| 04:31.32 | DeadlyNinja | i had a pretty scary experience unlocking my sx66 blueangel |
| 04:31.42 | DeadlyNinja | my screen stopped redrawing |
| 04:31.59 | DeadlyNinja | other bad things happen, but it ultimately worked |
| 04:33.07 | Ralith | reflashed the radio rom |
| 04:33.09 | Ralith | ran the unlocker |
| 04:33.15 | Ralith | got an error that said 'wrong device' |
| 04:33.19 | Ralith | went "Oh. Whoops." |
| 04:33.24 | Ralith | and downloaded the right unlocker. |
| 04:33.34 | Ralith | damn lucky the radio rom flash didn't brick it, though |
| 04:33.41 | Ralith | the backlight was acting up for a while after that |
| 04:34.01 | DeadlyNinja | i THINK its nearly impossible to brick a device |
| 04:34.10 | DeadlyNinja | but i want to be sure of that before i experiment |
| 04:34.46 | DeadlyNinja | if i hold down like every button on my device, i can get to a pre-boot serial loader, which appears can do everything |
| 04:45.05 | DeadlyNinja | anyone here with a SX66 want to share their experience upgrading to wm2005? anything to be aware of? |
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| 05:45.30 | DeadlyNinja | when you modify the operator in the main OS rom, are you supposed to set it to what your phone currently reads or to what you want it to be? |
| 05:46.07 | DeadlyNinja | for this step in the wiki: "Open a command prompt, go to the folder where the ROM file resides (nk.nbf) and execute: SetOperator ???" |
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| 07:31.48 | DeadlyNinja | BA: when upgrading your OS, are you allowed to pick any operator code or do you need to stick with the one your phone came with |
| 07:32.06 | DeadlyNinja | that is a general question, not directed at a person named BA |
| 07:40.51 | Ralith | noone's really awake any more :P |
| 07:41.17 | Ralith | also, keep in mind that this is a linux, not windows, room, although someone here is likely to have info that can help you |
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| 09:26.26 | DeadlyNinja | yeah no one is ever awake in here |
| 09:26.36 | DeadlyNinja | this is like day3 of no responses, maybe im asking bad questions |
| 09:27.02 | DeadlyNinja | either way i just bit the bullet and upgraded, had a snag, but downgrade-reupgrade worked |
| 09:27.13 | DeadlyNinja | now i can put linux on the damn thing |
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| 14:55.19 | nixu | hi there again |
| 14:55.41 | nixu | where can i download universal's opie sources |
| 15:03.52 | nixu | any one there? |
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| 15:50.07 | cr2 | nixu: you need to use oe. |
| 15:50.56 | Kevin2 | Hi |
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| 19:21.58 | Kevin2 | Hi psokolovsky_ |
| 19:22.08 | Kevin2 | HTC Apache is a wm2005 device. |
| 19:22.14 | psokolovsky_ | Kevin2, Hi! |
| 19:22.47 | psokolovsky_ | Kevin2, well, nice. so it must be indeed discrepancies in handling of some on-chip devices then? |
| 19:23.48 | Kevin2 | That would be my guess. It sounds like some PXA DMA might not be shutting down. |
| 19:25.13 | psokolovsky_ | Kevin2, well, do you remember that paranoid DMA stop patch I posted (or at least made and told you about)? maybe extra carefullness would help ;-) |
| 19:26.50 | Kevin2 | I've seen those extra writes put the dma controller in a funky state. |
| 19:27.34 | psokolovsky_ | well, dunno then. let people test, try, hack, and report results then. |
| 19:29.26 | Kevin2 | psokolovsky_: Okay. Feel free to tag when you're ready. |
| 19:30.38 | psokolovsky_ | Kevin2, ok. just one more thought. didn't you think about simplifying haretlog stuff? What about: if "haretlog.txt" exists, haret appends to it, otherwise, nothing? |
| 19:31.46 | Kevin2 | Yes, but there was a reason I didn't do that.. |
| 19:32.43 | psokolovsky_ | Kevin2, what's that? too lazy to rename log if you don't need it? ;-) |
| 19:32.49 | Kevin2 | Hrmm. I think I was afraid the log might get too large, and it wouldn't be easy to truncate it back to an empty file. |
| 19:34.12 | psokolovsky_ | Kevin2, well, for it too become too large, you have to do hundreds of boots ;-). so, unless you still have concerns, let's make users' life easiers, and support inflow of bootlogs for us ;-) |
| 19:34.48 | Kevin2 | Hrmm. Or maybe because I wanted positive affirmation of file creation -- if you had earlyharetlog.txt one of the first steps is to create haretlog.txt -- even before going into Output() call. |
| 19:35.39 | Kevin2 | It's pretty easy to create large log files. There is a utility program "Total Commander" that has a nice file viewer, but it only supports files up to 64K. |
| 19:35.53 | psokolovsky_ | Ok, so just tell "I don't want that to change for now" if you feel like that ;-) |
| 19:36.50 | Kevin2 | It's not a big deal for me either way. I didn't anticipate the earlyharetlog.txt trick to be used so much. |
| 19:38.46 | psokolovsky_ | Kevin2, well, we'd require bootlogs to add supportf or more devices (to get Platform/OEM strings), and as you saw on list, users tend to misread/misdo something such complex as dealing with 2 files ;-). and logging is pretty nice thing to be treated as "production" thing anyway. |
| 19:39.35 | psokolovsky_ | ok, so let's leave it this way for now, something to think about for next release |
| 19:40.56 | Kevin2 | Hopefully wiki documentation will help with that. As you state, I think we should leave it as is for now. |
| 19:42.33 | psokolovsky_ | ok |
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| 22:32.40 | *** join/#htc-linux daxxar (n=daxxar@daxxar.com) |
| 22:33.15 | daxxar | Hiya. :-) |
| 22:34.32 | daxxar | Are any of cellphones currently in an y 'usable' state under Linux? |
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| 22:48.56 | daxxar | I'm kinda looking around for a smartphone/pda (w/ phone) that runs Linux, for fun and perhaps use if the software is mature enough. |
| 22:49.43 | daxxar | And it seems my Tornado is not at all very 'mature' yet, software-wise (Linux) - and it's not PDA-ish enough. |
| 22:50.19 | daxxar | So I was considering looking at buying a used PDA-phone that I could run Linux on. :-) |
| 22:54.00 | cr2 | daxxar: what is your choice ? |
| 22:55.27 | daxxar | For PDA-phone? |
| 22:55.32 | daxxar | That's what I'm trying to figure out. ;) |
| 23:06.52 | daxxar | (What phone I should go for) |
| 23:15.08 | cr2 | new or old ? |
| 23:15.57 | daxxar | I don't particularly fancy something shiny and bleeding edge, 'cause I'd like to buy it used. |
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| 23:16.30 | daxxar | But neither do I want a rusty old relic with a monochrome display and no processing power :-P |
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| 23:23.36 | Hymie | daxxar: more important, what does the phone need to do? |
| 23:23.59 | Hymie | daxxar: UTMS? 3G stuff? wi-fi? colour display? battery life? keyboard? storage? etc? |
| 23:26.02 | daxxar | Colour display, not neccesarily a keyboard, support for storage-expansion (miniSD or similar), EDGE (or at least GPRS) is nice, WiFi is a plus. |
| 23:26.16 | Ralith | budget? |
| 23:26.52 | Ralith | daxxar, you might want to wait for the neo1973 to come out; it'll be around $350 and run linux natively |
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| 23:30.50 | cr2 | Ralith: customs ? |
| 23:31.04 | Ralith | ? |
| 23:31.17 | cr2 | +19% min. |
| 23:31.33 | daxxar | That's a nice price and a nice product |
| 23:31.37 | daxxar | Looks mighty slick. ;-) |
| 23:32.03 | cr2 | i've never bought anything from Taiwan directly, so i'm a bit confused. |
| 23:32.37 | Ralith | cr2, what are you talking about? O.o |
| 23:32.46 | Ralith | ohhh |
| 23:32.48 | Ralith | that kind of customs |
| 23:32.49 | Ralith | ah. |
| 23:32.52 | daxxar | No edge, BT or wifi, though |
| 23:32.53 | Ralith | *shrug* |
| 23:33.07 | cr2 | Ralith: http://www.zoll.de/c0_reise_und_post/b0_postverkehr/a0_einfuhr/d0_abgabenfestsetzung/index.html |
| 23:33.09 | Ralith | daxxar, otoh, it'll be guaranteed to have perfect linux support :P |
| 23:33.17 | daxxar | Yeah. ;-) |
| 23:33.29 | cr2 | daxxar: there will be BT. |
| 23:33.45 | daxxar | I read somewhere that they were going to finish the first batch in mid-december, for sale to the general early january, but not much more. :| |
| 23:34.12 | Ralith | personally, lover of the bleeding edge that I am, I'm happy with my secondhand Universal and waiting a little bit until the drivers get finished |
| 23:34.30 | Ralith | I can deal with running an in-development system. |
| 23:34.39 | Ralith | so long as the basic features usually work |
| 23:34.44 | Ralith | most importantly, UTMS |
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| 23:34.53 | Ralith | and data over it. |
| 23:34.56 | cr2 | daxxar: because of the (hw?) bugs it is delayed till february. |
| 23:36.44 | daxxar | cr2: ahkay |
| 23:36.45 | Hymie | why does no one every release a _good_ phone with linux |
| 23:36.58 | Hymie | bah! |
| 23:37.24 | Hymie | cr2: somehow, this is all your fault ;D |
| 23:38.11 | daxxar | How much did you pay for your Universal, Ralith? |
| 23:39.25 | cr2 | Hymie: a780 is ok for me. |
| 23:40.14 | Hymie | well, no utms, no keyboard :( |
| 23:40.23 | Hymie | it's a phone.. sure, but... |
| 23:41.13 | daxxar | A780 runs linux nativelyP |
| 23:41.14 | daxxar | ? |
| 23:42.10 | daxxar | Meh, I find my Tornado to be horribly slow at times, and it can be buggy. :| |
| 23:42.52 | cr2 | daxxar: yes. and the european version has builtin gps and the route planner from alk. |
| 23:42.58 | Ralith | daxxar, I got it for $350, but I was really lucky there |
| 23:43.01 | cr2 | but it's not produced anymore. |
| 23:43.06 | Ralith | sniped an ebay auction for one that was blacklisted in the UK |
| 23:43.21 | Ralith | and then there was $60 overseas shipping :P |
| 23:43.23 | Hymie | any phone that comes out now with no UTMS/3G is just insane... just like the iphone.. insane |
| 23:43.32 | Hymie | when you produce a product, you want at least a 2 year shelf life |
| 23:43.42 | Hymie | how is this phone, how is the iphone, in 1 year? in 1 1/2? |
| 23:44.03 | cr2 | Hymie: UMTS is a cash burning machine. i have it, but no way in hell will use it. |
| 23:44.04 | Hymie | certainly, the market gets smaller and smaller |
| 23:44.13 | Hymie | cr2: for you, but not for everyone else |
| 23:44.37 | Hymie | cr2: we must look at the world market, not just one, when we talk of utms |
| 23:44.50 | daxxar | What's wrong with the iPhone? |
| 23:44.53 | Hymie | cr2: after all, you want the phone to sell as many units as possible |
| 23:44.56 | Hymie | no utms |
| 23:45.00 | daxxar | ok |
| 23:45.00 | Hymie | job's is insane |
| 23:45.03 | Hymie | jobs |
| 23:45.09 | daxxar | Ralith: I found it for £200 on 'ebay |
| 23:45.09 | cr2 | Hymie: in which country the umts is acceptably priced ? |
| 23:45.11 | Hymie | that phone is going to tank like thge titanic |
| 23:45.26 | Hymie | cr2: thgere is no difference in price here for utms vs gsm/gprs |
| 23:45.32 | cr2 | there are many contries, where there is no umts at all. |
| 23:45.39 | Hymie | cr2: _now_, yes |
| 23:45.57 | Ralith | daxxar, that sounds normal |
| 23:45.57 | Hymie | cr2: but, let's face it, the US is a large market. UTMS is rolling out everywhere, there and here in Canada |
| 23:46.16 | Ralith | yeah |
| 23:46.18 | Hymie | cr2: but, I did not say that this phone was crappy |
| 23:46.22 | Ralith | cingular has 3G most cities already |
| 23:46.23 | Hymie | just, not "good" |
| 23:46.34 | Hymie | many people right now buy a $50 phone |
| 23:46.38 | Ralith | daxxar, you europe or US? |
| 23:46.40 | Hymie | (with plan) |
| 23:47.01 | Hymie | anyhow... I just find new phones without UTMS to be limiting their market a lot |
| 23:47.15 | Hymie | many non-tech people here, still get to know the acryonyms |
| 23:47.16 | Hymie | so |
| 23:47.17 | Hymie | they hear |
| 23:47.21 | Hymie | "UTMS!!!!!!" |
| 23:47.24 | Hymie | now all else is crappy |
| 23:47.29 | cr2 | Hymie: i've paid 120 euro for a780. you'll pay more for the route planner alone. |
| 23:47.30 | Hymie | even if they never use data |
| 23:47.36 | Ralith | :P |
| 23:47.39 | Ralith | meet the consumers |
| 23:47.58 | cr2 | moto was burning cash on a780, i'm absolutely sure. |
| 23:48.14 | Hymie | cr2: right, but I said "with plan". Over here, most providers sell phones with a 1 or 2 year plan, and eat 50-80% the cost of the phone |
| 23:48.24 | Ralith | daxxar, anyway, I like my Universal a lot. Haven't used it for much data yet, as I'm getting it a sim card today and its wifi hasn't been wholly cooperative, but it seems really nice |
| 23:48.30 | Ralith | especially with true VGA mode |
| 23:48.31 | daxxar | Ralith: Europe |
| 23:48.33 | Ralith | TONS of screen space |
| 23:48.42 | Ralith | daxxar, ah, then you won't be raped by shipping :P |
| 23:49.14 | Ralith | anyway |
| 23:49.16 | Ralith | it feels really solidly built |
| 23:49.29 | Ralith | and you can tell mine's been through a fair bit |
| 23:49.31 | Ralith | used |
| 23:49.34 | Ralith | kinda dented in places |
| 23:49.35 | Ralith | scratched |
| 23:49.38 | Ralith | works like a dream, though |
| 23:49.59 | Ralith | screen's really bright and crisp |
| 23:50.11 | Ralith | full keyboard is nice |
| 23:50.30 | daxxar | Mkay. =) |
| 23:50.33 | Ralith | the screen hinge is a little wobbly, but it seems secure |
| 23:50.45 | Ralith | sound's pretty impressive,too |
| 23:51.19 | Ralith | and, although you have to grab code from SVN and compile it yourself, there's linux support for transferring data to (and hopefully from, haven't tried it yet tho) it via usb at the least |
| 23:52.11 | Ralith | really, my only complaint is that it runs WM5 :P |
| 23:52.29 | *** join/#htc-linux guanxo (n=guanxo@81-203-33-242.user.ono.com) |
| 23:52.43 | Ralith | which is kinda slow, has very few free programs (although nethack runs on it natively! This is a very big plus), and has a lot of stupid ui design |
| 23:53.25 | Ralith | having a real SD card slot is also a big plus; much cheaper and larger than mini/microSD |
| 23:53.35 | Ralith | larger as in capacity. physical size is obvious :P |
| 23:53.51 | daxxar | ;-P |
| 23:54.18 | Ralith | the 3.5mm headset jack is also kinda neat, lets you use normal headphones with it, and theoretically you can find wired headsets that work on it too; haven't looked for that yet. |
| 23:54.48 | Ralith | haven't ran it off battery much yet, but the shipped one is supposed to be ok for about a full day between charges with normal use, and you can get much larger batteries for it if you need to |
| 23:56.33 | Ralith | Wm5 is officially the work of the devil, but as soon as Linux support gets finished, it'll be a pretty ideal device |
| 23:57.05 | daxxar | Hehehe :-P |
| 23:57.29 | Ralith | and until then, there are some hacks and third party programs to make it a bit more usable |
| 23:58.04 | Ralith | it overclocks to about 100mhz faster which I hear is enough to play videos at full screen 640x480, but I haven't seen any free Wm5 overclockers |
| 23:58.20 | Ralith | tried it with a trial version just to see if it worked, which it did, but then deleted it because trial versions piss me off :P |
| 23:58.43 | Ralith | and apparently 64mb of onboard storage doesn't go very far once you have Wm5 and all the default apps installed |
| 23:59.05 | Ralith | but as I said before, SD cards are the cheapest out there; I think you can get a 4GB one for under $50 if you look carefully |