| 00:07.21 | *** join/#kde jorgp (~jorgp@bnet-dial2-254.bartnet.net) |
| 00:11.01 | *** join/#kde jc (~mani-soft@pD9EE76D6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:11.36 | *** join/#kde RomanK (~roman@pD9E62962.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:14.12 | *** part/#kde sk3ptic (~fuz@pc-80-235-139-37-na.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 00:18.03 | *** join/#kde bill_c (~bill_c@bill-c.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 00:19.53 | dynedain | would anyone be able to answer a couple questions for me about installing kopete? |
| 00:20.55 | ryanoe | How do I make some dlls in /usr/lib/win32 get installed to my path? |
| 00:20.59 | *** join/#kde carles (~carles@164.125.64.51) |
| 00:22.02 | mobtek | ryanoe: how do you put them in your path? |
| 00:22.32 | ryanoe | Yea |
| 00:22.40 | dynedain | anyone? :( |
| 00:22.44 | ryanoe | How will kaffeine know that these files are in that directory? |
| 00:23.01 | ryanoe | http://kaffeine.sourceforge.net/help.php#play9 |
| 00:23.07 | ryanoe | look under where it says |
| 00:23.12 | mobtek | WINDLLS=/usr/lib/win32:$PATH |
| 00:23.12 | ryanoe | How do I play a WMV ? |
| 00:23.18 | ryanoe | where do I put that? |
| 00:23.22 | ryanoe | or do I run that? |
| 00:23.26 | mobtek | ryanoe: kaffeine should do that automagically |
| 00:23.27 | mobtek | :P |
| 00:23.31 | ryanoe | really? |
| 00:23.33 | ryanoe | I'm going to try |
| 00:23.39 | mobtek | dynedain: whats the question :) |
| 00:24.05 | dynedain | i have kopete .0.8.0 installed (default install of mandrake 10.0) |
| 00:24.08 | ryanoe | No kidding |
| 00:24.12 | mobtek | you'd put the path in your ~/.bash_profile or ~/.bashrc or whever for your shell |
| 00:24.13 | ryanoe | it worked automatically :) |
| 00:24.25 | mobtek | ryanoe: bingo :} |
| 00:24.39 | ryanoe | No I can watch all those funny clips on comedy central |
| 00:24.40 | ryanoe | :) |
| 00:24.45 | mobtek | hehe |
| 00:24.53 | dynedain | the 0.8.4 announcement says to install over the existing, but i cant figure out where to put the sourcefiles or what to put in "./configure --prefix=`kde-config --prefix`" in order to do that |
| 00:25.39 | dynedain | and mandrake hasn't updated their rpm list for it :( |
| 00:25.46 | mobtek | right type kde-config --prefix |
| 00:25.50 | mobtek | in konsole |
| 00:26.34 | mobtek | and then ./configure --prefix="/path/to/prefix" |
| 00:26.39 | dynedain | i get /usr |
| 00:26.57 | mobtek | ok then usr it is then |
| 00:27.04 | dynedain | so replace "./configure --prefix=`kde-config --prefix`" with ./configure --prefix=`/usr` ? |
| 00:27.10 | mobtek | its /usr/kde/3.2 on gentoo :) |
| 00:27.12 | mobtek | yuppers |
| 00:27.27 | dynedain | does it matter that the source folder is in my home directory? |
| 00:27.36 | mobtek | nope |
| 00:27.40 | mobtek | that can be anywhere |
| 00:27.57 | mobtek | that just where stuff will be built |
| 00:28.13 | mobtek | when you get to make install then it will install to the defined prefix :) |
| 00:28.21 | dynedain | ok...that makes sense |
| 00:28.25 | dynedain | thanks i'll try that |
| 00:28.32 | mobtek | which ./configure should be able to figure out on its own :P |
| 00:28.35 | mobtek | hehe kewlies |
| 00:28.45 | dynedain | i admit i'm a bit of a newbie...but this is the first install of linux that i've gotten to work out of box |
| 00:28.45 | mobtek | ok back to my movie :P |
| 00:28.51 | mobtek | cool |
| 00:28.55 | dynedain | been messing since RH7... bleah |
| 00:29.02 | mobtek | ouch heheh |
| 00:32.52 | dynedain | hmmm....didn't seem to work |
| 00:33.06 | dynedain | it ran through configure, make, and make install without any errors |
| 00:33.31 | mobtek | yeah can you just type kopete from the command line or ALT-F2? |
| 00:33.47 | dynedain | but when i start kopete (either from the menu in X or from a console) the help menu says it's version 0.8.0 |
| 00:33.59 | *** join/#kde jhlaptop (~jonathan@CPE-69-76-225-86.kc.rr.com) |
| 00:34.28 | mobtek | try /usr/kopete :P |
| 00:34.42 | mobtek | sounds like mandrake installs stuff to weird places :) |
| 00:35.27 | dynedain | ok |
| 00:35.29 | mobtek | or you don't have your KDEPATH in .bash_profile |
| 00:35.32 | *** join/#kde linux_learner (~linux_lea@ip68-226-20-172.tc.ph.cox.net) |
| 00:36.06 | linux_learner | is there a bug report on kaffiene about it loosing songs in the playlist |
| 00:36.28 | mobtek | linux_learner: bugs.kde.org |
| 00:37.08 | linux_learner | thanx but do you know of an existing bug matching that descriptopn |
| 00:37.10 | mobtek | if its not there an you can reproduce it then file a bug report |
| 00:37.24 | mobtek | linux_learner: not off hand no |
| 00:37.30 | linux_learner | hmmmmmmm |
| 00:37.41 | linux_learner | i can reproduce it |
| 00:37.55 | linux_learner | has been reproduced several times on my pc |
| 00:38.08 | mobtek | kewlies check that it hasn't already been filed |
| 00:38.33 | mobtek | ok goneski again :) |
| 00:38.33 | linux_learner | kewlies? |
| 00:39.47 | t-jack | Must be kinda like my own 'cooloicious'... |
| 00:39.54 | linux_learner | ah |
| 00:40.18 | linux_learner | i end up having to redo the play list |
| 00:40.26 | linux_learner | rescan all my mp3's |
| 00:40.50 | dynedain | i don't currently have a /usr/kopete |
| 00:40.59 | dynedain | but i do have a /bin/kopete |
| 00:41.20 | mobtek | linux_learner: heheh use amarok man :) it rocks for music |
| 00:41.28 | t-jack | Start kopete as a primary, not root, user. |
| 00:41.42 | mobtek | t-jack: good point :P didn't even think of that heheh |
| 00:42.10 | linux_learner | i cant |
| 00:42.19 | linux_learner | i'm stuck on 3.1.4 |
| 00:42.27 | t-jack | I came in late in this conversation... |
| 00:42.34 | mobtek | linux_learner: seriously, upgrade :) |
| 00:42.48 | linux_learner | and the amarok that i have access to is kde 3.2.3 |
| 00:42.49 | mobtek | 3.2.3 is great |
| 00:42.54 | linux_learner | i'd like to |
| 00:42.57 | dynedain | corretion... /usr/bin/kopete |
| 00:42.59 | linux_learner | but yast |
| 00:43.04 | mobtek | heh dynedain |
| 00:43.06 | dynedain | i'm not running it as root |
| 00:43.06 | linux_learner | yast wants to delete my system |
| 00:43.18 | t-jack | mobtek: Question... If Sid is outdated, why even use it? |
| 00:43.24 | mobtek | is yast the mandrake package management thing? |
| 00:43.29 | linux_learner | suse |
| 00:43.34 | mobtek | t-jack: hmm I use gentoo |
| 00:43.48 | mobtek | linux_learner: ahh ok |
| 00:44.00 | mobtek | linux_learner: heh thats nasty there are suse rpm's for 3.2.3 iirc |
| 00:44.10 | t-jack | Lucky you. stability of Linux, pkg care of BSD. |
| 00:44.34 | mobtek | t-jack: hmm its very nice I should have stopped using debian ages ago hehe |
| 00:44.46 | mobtek | linux_learner: http://www.kde.org/download/ |
| 00:45.04 | mobtek | SuSE Linux (README) : |
| 00:45.04 | mobtek | Language packages (all versions and architectures) |
| 00:45.05 | mobtek | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:45.05 | mobtek | 9.1: Intel i586 and AMD x86-64 |
| 00:45.05 | mobtek | 9.0: Intel i586 and AMD x86-64 |
| 00:45.05 | mobtek | 8.2: Intel i586 |
| 00:45.21 | t-jack | mobtek: Is there a Linux that compiles directly from makefile? |
| 00:45.52 | mobtek | t-jack: you mean a src distro from scratch? |
| 00:46.38 | t-jack | mobtek: I seriously doubt if LFS has yet evolved into a full distr... But it'd be cool... |
| 00:47.07 | mobtek | hehehe |
| 00:47.44 | mobtek | <-- ok seriously gone now turned of nick OSD notifications :P |
| 00:47.50 | mobtek | s/of/off :P |
| 00:48.13 | t-jack | mobtek: No, I guess that's not what I'm thinking. I think it's the fact I'm prejudiced toward fBSD style, having first used that, and have reservations delving into emerge... |
| 00:48.38 | linux_learner | thanx mobtek |
| 00:48.47 | linux_learner | but i still gotta "update" |
| 00:48.58 | t-jack | mobtek: I'll let you go... |
| 00:49.00 | linux_learner | yast wants to delete my system |
| 00:49.11 | linux_learner | i dont know how to get arround that |
| 00:49.44 | t-jack | linux_learner: yet *another* syncronizing tool? |
| 00:50.19 | linux_learner | hell if i know |
| 00:50.49 | linux_learner | i know that the yast software manager is a front end to apt |
| 00:50.58 | *** join/#kde cibe (~asdf@203-217-58-177.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:51.13 | t-jack | linux_learner: I'm actually asking what is yast acronym for... |
| 00:51.27 | linux_learner | i dont know |
| 00:51.38 | t-jack | OK |
| 00:51.59 | teatime | t-jack: I think the 'S' might be "setup" |
| 00:52.14 | t-jack | teatime: Thanks. |
| 00:52.32 | Bochi | Yet Another Setup Tool |
| 00:52.35 | dynedain | ghah! |
| 00:52.38 | linux_learner | thanx |
| 00:52.43 | teatime | t-jack: there is of course yast2 too ;) |
| 00:52.44 | t-jack | linux_learner: Why do you use yast, opposed to others? |
| 00:52.48 | linux_learner | now i KNOW |
| 00:53.03 | linux_learner | which others r u refering to |
| 00:53.08 | linux_learner | theres red carpet |
| 00:53.12 | linux_learner | open karpet |
| 00:53.15 | linux_learner | kpackage |
| 00:53.16 | t-jack | aptitude synaptic |
| 00:53.22 | linux_learner | synaptic |
| 00:53.24 | dynedain | it still doesn't work :( |
| 00:53.28 | t-jack | kpackage |
| 00:53.34 | linux_learner | syaptic crashes on me |
| 00:53.36 | t-jack | kbarry |
| 00:53.44 | linux_learner | kpackage doesnt resolve deps |
| 00:53.53 | linux_learner | at least as of yet |
| 00:54.11 | t-jack | kbarry *may* be defunct... |
| 00:54.42 | linux_learner | i know i can set mirrors in kpackage |
| 00:54.57 | linux_learner | but how do i get it to work like red carpet |
| 00:55.04 | linux_learner | or synaptic |
| 00:55.08 | linux_learner | or...or... |
| 00:55.23 | t-jack | Which branch of Debian? |
| 00:55.34 | linux_learner | suse |
| 00:55.46 | *** join/#kde Fenix_NBK_ (~Fenix_NBK@bzq-193-33.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 00:55.49 | t-jack | suse uses dpkg? |
| 00:55.53 | linux_learner | no |
| 00:55.56 | t-jack | suse uses dpkg?/apt? |
| 00:55.57 | linux_learner | apt4rpm |
| 00:56.03 | t-jack | Ah |
| 00:56.07 | Fenix_NBK_ | hi all ! |
| 00:56.08 | linux_learner | ;) |
| 00:56.45 | Fenix_NBK_ | how can I customize KDE start menu sidebat image? |
| 00:57.11 | Fenix_NBK_ | *sidebar |
| 00:57.33 | t-jack | Prolly should stick with yast, then. synaptic might send calls to dpkg, wich of course isn't there, hence the crashes... |
| 00:57.58 | linux_learner | hmmmmmmmmm |
| 00:58.04 | linux_learner | i have used it |
| 00:58.12 | linux_learner | it doesnt always crash |
| 00:58.22 | linux_learner | its a synaptic based for apt4rpm |
| 00:58.35 | linux_learner | developed by conectriva |
| 00:58.50 | t-jack | Then I'm wrong. How about libs mismathes? |
| 00:59.00 | t-jack | mismatches |
| 00:59.21 | Fenix_NBK_ | How can I customize KDE start menu sidebar image? |
| 00:59.31 | linux_learner | its all been ported for rpm distros |
| 01:00.27 | t-jack | linux_learner: I mean out-of-date trying to mesh with spanking new... or something. |
| 01:00.39 | linux_learner | oh that |
| 01:00.49 | linux_learner | i just updated apt and synaptic |
| 01:01.16 | t-jack | Sometimes distrs don't have the correct libs... |
| 01:01.42 | linux_learner | i used the suse packages |
| 01:01.56 | t-jack | Or is that a Sid problem? These multitudinal distrs are confusing... |
| 01:02.12 | linux_learner | they can be |
| 01:02.36 | t-jack | Hell, I still have occasional flashbacks to fBSD... |
| 01:02.53 | linux_learner | cool |
| 01:03.02 | linux_learner | i tried that once |
| 01:03.18 | linux_learner | it was so much like slack i didnt see the point |
| 01:04.01 | t-jack | Slack or Gentoo... that seems to be my current dilema... |
| 01:04.11 | linux_learner | ah |
| 01:04.21 | linux_learner | i cant script |
| 01:04.39 | linux_learner | so that solves my dilema |
| 01:04.50 | t-jack | They're both basically bsd with linux kernal and patches? |
| 01:05.44 | linux_learner | yeah |
| 01:05.55 | linux_learner | just gentoo is .......... |
| 01:06.05 | linux_learner | well you compile it all yourself |
| 01:06.07 | fred87 | gentoo is 2% faster |
| 01:06.11 | fred87 | at most |
| 01:06.13 | linux_learner | and write or edit scripts |
| 01:06.15 | fred87 | unless you have a weird system |
| 01:06.36 | fred87 | linux_learner, you don't learn it with gentoo, you follow a step-by-step guide, and the compiling is automated |
| 01:06.48 | t-jack | gentoo's pkg manager is emerge... slack is based on a simple non-native tarball, like bsd... |
| 01:08.23 | t-jack | ??? |
| 01:09.08 | linux_learner | fred87, i wouldnt go so far as to say that |
| 01:09.09 | t-jack | So Slack is closest to oldschool platypus hackers' linux? |
| 01:09.14 | linux_learner | but then i dont do gentoo |
| 01:09.48 | fred87 | t-jack yep |
| 01:09.53 | *** join/#kde Fenix_NBK_ (~Fenix_NBK@bzq-193-33.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 01:09.56 | fred87 | well it is the oldest commercial distro |
| 01:10.08 | Fenix_NBK_ | anyonw knows how-to I customize KDE start menu sidebar image? |
| 01:10.10 | fred87 | actually, i'd say LFS is closr |
| 01:10.16 | t-jack | Ja older than Debian. |
| 01:10.23 | fred87 | the packages aint |
| 01:10.24 | fred87 | :) |
| 01:10.27 | *** part/#kde Omega` (~Omega@co63471-a.olden1.ov.home.nl) |
| 01:11.10 | t-jack | Fenix_NBK_: Elaborate on that. You mean the panel icon? |
| 01:11.22 | linux_learner | i know what he means |
| 01:11.28 | linux_learner | and how its done |
| 01:11.29 | fred87 | t-jack i think he means the k-menu button |
| 01:11.54 | t-jack | fred87: That's what I said... ;) |
| 01:12.21 | fred87 | oh i thoguht you meant the icon for panels in kcontrol |
| 01:12.24 | fred87 | sorry :P |
| 01:12.25 | t-jack | "Right" said Fred |
| 01:12.32 | fred87 | ... |
| 01:13.11 | t-jack | fred87: er... insult unintended... was an early 80s pop band |
| 01:13.42 | t-jack | neh mine |
| 01:14.29 | t-jack | right-click on an icon to change it... |
| 01:15.30 | t-jack | Some, anyway... :) |
| 01:16.00 | fred87 | t-jack i know |
| 01:16.01 | fred87 | :) |
| 01:16.19 | fred87 | t-jack btw that don't work for k-menu |
| 01:16.20 | t-jack | OK so menu icon is different |
| 01:16.49 | *** join/#kde annma (~annma@modemcable059.146-37-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 01:17.01 | fred87 | gah i knew i'd regret using bzip2 for my package manager when i got onto something like manpages |
| 01:18.46 | linux_learner | i'd still like to file a bug report on kaffeine |
| 01:19.01 | linux_learner | unless some1 can figure out what the prob is |
| 01:19.19 | annma | kaffeine, hmm |
| 01:19.23 | linux_learner | yeah |
| 01:19.28 | annma | isn't it still in development? |
| 01:19.36 | annma | it's not in any kde module |
| 01:19.41 | linux_learner | it keeps loosing songs from my play list 1 at a time |
| 01:19.50 | annma | songs? |
| 01:20.00 | annma | what do you do with it? |
| 01:20.13 | linux_learner | kaffeine is a multimedia player |
| 01:20.42 | annma | hmm, you'd better use one shipped with kde official |
| 01:20.42 | *** join/#kde SecretMethod70 (SecretMeth@c-67-173-68-185.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:20.58 | linux_learner | thanx |
| 01:21.04 | linux_learner | but that doesnt solve the prob |
| 01:21.12 | annma | there are no kaffeilne devels on irc |
| 01:21.20 | annma | or mail the author directly |
| 01:21.27 | annma | this is the best |
| 01:21.43 | linux_learner | http://kaffeine.sourceforge.net/ |
| 01:22.02 | annma | probably you can find the author email, no? |
| 01:22.10 | annma | it's not even in kde cvs |
| 01:23.26 | linux_learner | annma, whats the point to all this |
| 01:23.43 | *** join/#kde RomanK (~roman@pD95E7FC1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:23.44 | annma | to get it fix? isn't what you want? |
| 01:23.53 | linux_learner | i came to find out if there were any known bugs like i described |
| 01:24.04 | annma | a bug report will not do the trick if the app is not in kde, no??? |
| 01:24.04 | linux_learner | if not can some1 help fix it |
| 01:24.25 | annma | it's not a supported kde application as you surely understand |
| 01:24.27 | linux_learner | kaffeine is a kde app |
| 01:24.35 | annma | no, not in kde cvs |
| 01:24.41 | linux_learner | i didnt say cvs |
| 01:24.44 | annma | I cannot access its code and fix it |
| 01:24.53 | annma | well, a kde app for me is in kde cvs |
| 01:25.10 | annma | you have thousands of non maintained applications |
| 01:25.11 | linux_learner | there is a cvs for kaffeine |
| 01:25.13 | annma | kde apps |
| 01:25.20 | annma | sourceforge |
| 01:25.28 | linux_learner | right |
| 01:25.38 | annma | in kde offcicial we only have maintained and mainly working applications |
| 01:25.46 | linux_learner | i know |
| 01:25.48 | annma | using Juk would be better for you |
| 01:25.55 | linux_learner | but i think its linked to kicker |
| 01:26.02 | annma | so I say if you want kaffeine to get fix mail the author |
| 01:26.05 | linux_learner | juk wont play mpgs |
| 01:26.08 | fred87 | annma, does KDE have an official dvd player? |
| 01:26.18 | annma | does it need one? |
| 01:26.21 | *** join/#kde putzeli (~putzeli@atari.hta-bi.bfh.ch) |
| 01:26.23 | fred87 | hmm |
| 01:26.27 | fred87 | well gnome got totem iirc |
| 01:26.28 | annma | does it have a kid app like GCompris in Gnome? |
| 01:26.42 | annma | does kde have a good ripper like Grip? |
| 01:26.53 | fred87 | kaudiocreator |
| 01:26.59 | linux_learner | annma, you do realize that kaffeine is a front end to xine right? |
| 01:27.09 | annma | so why not xine? |
| 01:27.22 | linux_learner | http://kaffeine.sourceforge.net/download.html |
| 01:27.24 | annma | fred87: it does not work here as kplayer never works |
| 01:27.29 | fred87 | xine don't have dcop among other things |
| 01:27.29 | *** part/#kde dynedain (~dynedain@dsl081-085-204.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 01:27.32 | annma | linux_learner: it does not work |
| 01:28.04 | linux_learner | after loading a playlist and playing songs for a bit |
| 01:28.08 | annma | I use Xine or better: vlc |
| 01:28.21 | linux_learner | it stops playing the same songs after a bit |
| 01:28.28 | annma | if kde has not a good app why not use an existing one? |
| 01:28.38 | annma | why you don't use xine? |
| 01:28.43 | linux_learner | it gevies an error that it cant load them |
| 01:28.46 | annma | as you must have it anyway |
| 01:28.47 | linux_learner | like a bad file name |
| 01:28.52 | annma | xine? |
| 01:28.53 | linux_learner | i do have xine |
| 01:29.00 | annma | so why don't you use it? |
| 01:29.01 | linux_learner | like kaffeiene |
| 01:29.07 | annma | like? |
| 01:29.18 | linux_learner | i like kaffeine |
| 01:29.37 | linux_learner | i dont want alternatives |
| 01:29.39 | fred87 | "if kde has not a good app why not use an existing one?" < if we stuck to that kde wouldn't have any apps |
| 01:29.45 | linux_learner | "use this or that" |
| 01:29.53 | linux_learner | i'd like this fixed |
| 01:29.57 | annma | fred87: yes but actually I work on that, no? |
| 01:30.15 | annma | so I can say this |
| 01:30.27 | annma | because I am aware apps are not done by magic |
| 01:30.51 | annma | I would like to see a kde Gimp for example |
| 01:30.56 | *** join/#kde AssociateX (~SouthBoun@24-117-130-246.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 01:31.08 | annma | but the Gimp is good enough at the moment |
| 01:31.19 | linux_learner | KIMP |
| 01:31.29 | fred87 | that would be a huge pain to port... |
| 01:31.47 | annma | yeah but linux_learner you can actually join kaffeine development if you like it, that's what KDE is about |
| 01:32.14 | linux_learner | i wish annma |
| 01:32.17 | linux_learner | i really do |
| 01:32.22 | annma | yeah so do |
| 01:32.25 | linux_learner | i dont know coding yet |
| 01:32.33 | linux_learner | i cant even do html |
| 01:32.36 | annma | if kaffeine is strong enough it'll make it to multimedia |
| 01:32.40 | annma | yeah and? |
| 01:32.51 | annma | linux_learner: don't 'I don't know' me |
| 01:32.53 | linux_learner | how can i help develop kaffeine |
| 01:32.59 | annma | you can if you want |
| 01:33.02 | linux_learner | i dont know coding |
| 01:33.17 | *** join/#kde dbglt (~isaneo@220-244-235-73-vic-pppoe.tpgi.com.au) |
| 01:33.18 | annma | everyone can learn |
| 01:33.22 | annma | EVERYONE |
| 01:33.24 | linux_learner | more accurately i dont know the functions |
| 01:33.35 | linux_learner | i know the theory |
| 01:33.35 | annma | yeah and you can learn |
| 01:33.42 | annma | so, you're ready |
| 01:33.43 | linux_learner | if i had the time annma |
| 01:33.48 | annma | ahhh |
| 01:33.49 | *** join/#kde hansvi (~hans@D5E0C97B.kabel.telenet.be) |
| 01:33.49 | annma | ok |
| 01:33.56 | linux_learner | i adminitor this |
| 01:33.56 | fred87 | the time you're spending on irc saying you dont have time? |
| 01:33.57 | annma | choice, that's called |
| 01:34.06 | linux_learner | i work for a call center |
| 01:34.10 | linux_learner | and have a family |
| 01:34.17 | linux_learner | its called obligation |
| 01:34.18 | annma | linux_learner: don't try to argue with me you lose |
| 01:34.21 | linux_learner | not a choice |
| 01:34.21 | annma | lol |
| 01:34.26 | annma | ah ah ah |
| 01:34.29 | linux_learner | lol |
| 01:34.31 | linux_learner | :P |
| 01:34.32 | annma | bad luck |
| 01:34.36 | fred87 | but obligation is negotiable for irc... |
| 01:34.37 | linux_learner | ehhhhhhhhh |
| 01:34.37 | annma | I have kids too |
| 01:34.45 | linux_learner | i can tell |
| 01:34.47 | annma | and more than you probably |
| 01:34.50 | linux_learner | ann ma |
| 01:34.54 | linux_learner | ma being mom |
| 01:35.02 | annma | ma being Marie |
| 01:35.06 | annma | actually |
| 01:35.07 | linux_learner | ok |
| 01:35.12 | annma | but I have 4 kids |
| 01:35.16 | annma | so see |
| 01:35.21 | linux_learner | mom was the thing that poped into my head |
| 01:35.32 | annma | Anne-Marie -> annma |
| 01:35.37 | linux_learner | lol ok |
| 01:35.56 | annma | so you can see anything is possible |
| 01:36.08 | linux_learner | lol |
| 01:36.13 | linux_learner | i'm working on it |
| 01:36.17 | linux_learner | believe me |
| 01:36.23 | annma | seriously kaffeine should be helped to get in |
| 01:36.30 | linux_learner | but would you want a n00b workinbg on kaffiene |
| 01:36.36 | annma | I find the multuimedia apps poor |
| 01:36.44 | annma | yes, of course |
| 01:36.46 | linux_learner | well their not bad |
| 01:36.53 | linux_learner | especially kaffeine |
| 01:36.54 | annma | newbies start everyday on every app |
| 01:37.00 | linux_learner | it has much promise |
| 01:37.06 | *** join/#kde AssociateX (~SouthBoun@24-117-130-246.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 01:37.31 | linux_learner | but i really think this is related to kicker |
| 01:37.51 | annma | why? kicker is just a container, no? |
| 01:37.52 | linux_learner | kaffeiene will run fine until kicker crashes |
| 01:37.59 | annma | kicker crashes? |
| 01:38.03 | linux_learner | yeah |
| 01:38.05 | annma | what distro? |
| 01:38.07 | linux_learner | suse |
| 01:38.11 | annma | hmmm |
| 01:38.20 | annma | I should try this kaffeine on source |
| 01:38.20 | linux_learner | but i've had the same prob on other distros |
| 01:38.35 | linux_learner | the kicker prob anyway |
| 01:38.43 | annma | oh? |
| 01:38.49 | annma | crash on what exactly? |
| 01:38.56 | annma | what triggers the crash? |
| 01:39.00 | linux_learner | kicker is the taskbar |
| 01:39.06 | linux_learner | i dont know annma |
| 01:39.22 | linux_learner | it seems to be when i do an rpm |
| 01:39.30 | annma | taskbar or panel? kicker is the panel, the whole thing |
| 01:39.38 | linux_learner | when the system is like updating ldconfig |
| 01:39.42 | linux_learner | and updatedb |
| 01:39.44 | annma | it does not crash here |
| 01:39.50 | linux_learner | yeah i know |
| 01:39.52 | annma | ohh, not related at all |
| 01:39.55 | linux_learner | mine does |
| 01:40.00 | annma | distros sucks |
| 01:40.16 | linux_learner | kicker crashes when i run an rpm |
| 01:40.30 | annma | this has nothing to do with kicker |
| 01:40.34 | linux_learner | maybe |
| 01:40.39 | annma | rpm has nothing to do with kde |
| 01:40.40 | linux_learner | i do have the crash report |
| 01:40.55 | annma | look in suse forums maybe |
| 01:41.03 | linux_learner | i posted it there |
| 01:41.07 | linux_learner | no1 answered |
| 01:41.11 | linux_learner | not a 1 |
| 01:41.31 | annma | seems your install then |
| 01:41.37 | linux_learner | no |
| 01:41.45 | linux_learner | as i said its not distro specific |
| 01:41.48 | annma | you found other cases like this? |
| 01:41.53 | annma | why noot? |
| 01:42.07 | linux_learner | i have had this exact prob in mandrake |
| 01:42.12 | linux_learner | kicker crashing |
| 01:42.21 | annma | mdk what version? |
| 01:42.28 | annma | I ran mdk 9.2 |
| 01:42.35 | annma | kicker was very stable |
| 01:42.43 | linux_learner | 9.0,9.1,9.2,10.0 alpha |
| 01:43.14 | annma | you have a problem somewhere then |
| 01:43.27 | annma | I don't see how hardware can interfere here |
| 01:43.38 | linux_learner | exactly |
| 01:44.13 | linux_learner | so i must conclude at this point its kicker |
| 01:44.34 | annma | no |
| 01:44.46 | annma | I have it from sources since ages and it never did that |
| 01:44.54 | annma | look at the bugs database |
| 01:45.02 | t-jack | There is no taskbar in KDE. That first panel is the titlebar. |
| 01:45.07 | linux_learner | until i get that report |
| 01:45.12 | annma | there is a taskbar |
| 01:45.13 | linux_learner | it wont matter |
| 01:45.27 | fred87 | there is a taskbar applet |
| 01:45.29 | annma | the taskbar is where the apps are minimized |
| 01:45.39 | annma | yeah but on by default |
| 01:45.46 | fred87 | yep |
| 01:45.48 | *** join/#kde nebyeti (~Ben@adsl-68-94-173-191.dsl.snantx.swbell.net) |
| 01:45.54 | fred87 | t-jack, the title bar is the bit at the top of each window |
| 01:46.14 | t-jack | OK I'm wrong. Again, |
| 01:46.41 | annma | linux_learner: what you should do first is: kill kicker from a konsole, then rerun it from konsole |
| 01:46.55 | annma | then wait from a crash, leaving the console |
| 01:46.55 | linux_learner | found it annma |
| 01:46.56 | t-jack | On top of that I just had a spasm of pain from my injured ankle... |
| 01:47.05 | linux_learner | http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/index.php?showtopic=1693&hl=kicker |
| 01:47.15 | annma | in suse, not in kde |
| 01:47.37 | annma | that's YOUR report |
| 01:47.39 | linux_learner | take a look |
| 01:47.42 | linux_learner | yep |
| 01:47.43 | annma | what about other reports? |
| 01:47.55 | annma | if it's kicker, it has been reported, right? |
| 01:48.18 | linux_learner | not always |
| 01:48.23 | annma | especially if it's with mdk 9 which was like 18 months ago |
| 01:48.25 | linux_learner | i looked for kaffeiene |
| 01:48.35 | linux_learner | and the bug i have isnt posted |
| 01:48.51 | annma | you said kicker crashes everytime you have a rpm or something with numerous distros, right? |
| 01:49.02 | linux_learner | yeah |
| 01:49.12 | annma | so if it's kicker and not u=you it must have been reported |
| 01:49.13 | linux_learner | but i have asked others |
| 01:49.20 | t-jack | Where do I recover applets' handles? |
| 01:49.25 | linux_learner | and so far every1 else is like you |
| 01:49.45 | annma | you mean you never found 1 person with your problem? |
| 01:49.57 | linux_learner | right |
| 01:50.10 | annma | but you persist thinking it's kicker |
| 01:50.15 | linux_learner | yep |
| 01:50.26 | t-jack | Hey |
| 01:50.40 | annma | t-jack: why are the handles not there? |
| 01:50.42 | t-jack | Kicker -did- die on me earlier today... |
| 01:50.53 | annma | t-jack: distro? |
| 01:51.07 | annma | I have not seen a kicker crash in months |
| 01:51.22 | linux_learner | annma, http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77497 |
| 01:51.24 | t-jack | annma: I disabled them somehow. I forget how, now. I;m using Debian Sid. |
| 01:52.20 | linux_learner | and annma heres another http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85606 |
| 01:52.41 | annma | linux_learner: first was kde 3.2.1 |
| 01:53.15 | linux_learner | i've had this prob since 2.2.2 |
| 01:53.30 | annma | non confirmed |
| 01:53.30 | annma | nobody added anything |
| 01:53.35 | annma | second link is worse |
| 01:53.38 | annma | kde 3.0.5 |
| 01:53.47 | annma | so old it's irrelevant |
| 01:54.01 | annma | linux_learner: you're not a learner then |
| 01:54.18 | annma | it's not reported as you say |
| 01:54.26 | linux_learner | i said that |
| 01:54.34 | annma | from using rpms or updatedb |
| 01:55.00 | annma | you can find bugs report on evrything in the bugs database which is sad |
| 01:55.03 | linux_learner | and as far as that i just notice when it happens |
| 01:55.17 | annma | see what I said earlier |
| 01:55.20 | annma | open konsole |
| 01:55.21 | t-jack | annma: apt-listbugs? |
| 01:55.23 | annma | type |
| 01:55.28 | annma | kill kicker |
| 01:55.31 | linux_learner | no annma i had never used the bug database till today |
| 01:55.34 | annma | then type kicker |
| 01:55.36 | t-jack | No |
| 01:55.40 | t-jack | type |
| 01:55.41 | linux_learner | no annma |
| 01:55.48 | t-jack | killall kicker |
| 01:55.50 | annma | no? |
| 01:55.53 | linux_learner | no |
| 01:55.55 | linux_learner | dont that |
| 01:55.57 | annma | killall -9 kicker |
| 01:55.59 | linux_learner | bad bad bad |
| 01:56.04 | annma | what? |
| 01:56.09 | t-jack | Or find the pid. |
| 01:56.14 | linux_learner | it is a serious pain when that happens |
| 01:56.21 | annma | why? |
| 01:56.23 | t-jack | kill (pid) |
| 01:56.30 | annma | I can kill it and rescusite it |
| 01:56.35 | linux_learner | because when you load kicker again |
| 01:56.47 | linux_learner | it crashagain and again |
| 01:56.52 | linux_learner | eventually it loads |
| 01:57.06 | annma | annma@localhost:/usr/local/kde-cvs-head/kdevelop$ kdekillall kicker |
| 01:57.06 | annma | annma@localhost:/usr/local/kde-cvs-head/kdevelop$ kicker & |
| 01:57.06 | annma | [1] 9254 |
| 01:57.10 | annma | I just did it |
| 01:57.14 | annma | nothing happened |
| 01:57.14 | linux_learner | yeah |
| 01:57.21 | linux_learner | mine doesnt do that |
| 01:57.24 | annma | just kicker went and is back again |
| 01:57.32 | *** join/#kde Terrapin (~Administr@64.74.191.45) |
| 01:57.35 | annma | so yours is bad, use the source next time |
| 01:57.35 | linux_learner | :bangs head: |
| 01:57.44 | annma | I have the kde sources, see |
| 01:57.51 | linux_learner | yeah |
| 01:57.53 | annma | I can kill and relive |
| 01:57.59 | annma | nobody's hurt |
| 01:58.04 | linux_learner | source isnt always better |
| 01:58.10 | annma | yes it is |
| 01:58.23 | annma | because you really know that the problem is the code |
| 01:58.29 | linux_learner | rpm is just a packaged source |
| 01:58.34 | annma | and not a package, a dependency or what |
| 01:58.37 | annma | no |
| 01:58.44 | *** join/#kde jorgp2 (~konversat@bnet-dial2-254.bartnet.net) |
| 01:58.47 | linux_learner | the problem isnt with the rpm packaging |
| 01:58.51 | annma | rpm taints the source badly |
| 01:58.54 | linux_learner | this happened from install |
| 01:58.57 | annma | can taint |
| 01:59.03 | linux_learner | can perhaps |
| 01:59.06 | linux_learner | so can source |
| 01:59.14 | annma | well, as you saw I had no problem killing kicker |
| 01:59.18 | linux_learner | and time you package something it can go wrong |
| 01:59.22 | linux_learner | yeah |
| 01:59.27 | annma | so this is it |
| 01:59.33 | linux_learner | and i'm telling you i have trouble |
| 01:59.40 | linux_learner | i posted the error report |
| 01:59.46 | linux_learner | that kde generated |
| 01:59.47 | t-jack | pkging can corrupt the src before you start. |
| 01:59.47 | annma | if you install kde 3.3 which I run and you have your problems it's not kicker |
| 01:59.54 | annma | where? |
| 02:00.07 | linux_learner | http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/index.php?showtopic=1693&hl=kicker |
| 02:00.51 | annma | the answer says to update |
| 02:01.11 | annma | I cannot say witht he report what's up |
| 02:01.16 | *** join/#kde AssociateX (~SouthBoun@24-117-130-246.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 02:01.20 | annma | too complicated, the backtrace |
| 02:01.46 | linux_learner | i have updated b4 |
| 02:01.54 | linux_learner | as i said i have had this since 2.2.2 |
| 02:02.09 | linux_learner | i am not here to argue |
| 02:02.13 | linux_learner | just get it fixed |
| 02:04.40 | grepper | linux_learner: did you try removing applets from kicker one by one, starting with kweather ? |
| 02:05.00 | linux_learner | no |
| 02:05.06 | linux_learner | that i havent tried |
| 02:05.31 | linux_learner | i did notice that kweather was in the backtrace |
| 02:05.34 | grepper | I would |
| 02:05.55 | linux_learner | hmmmmmmmmmmm |
| 02:06.08 | linux_learner | done |
| 02:06.21 | grepper | or rm your $KDEHOME/share/config/kickerrc and the panel applet rc's in that dir |
| 02:06.33 | linux_learner | running suseconfig now |
| 02:06.47 | linux_learner | thats a good idea |
| 02:06.56 | *** join/#kde cies (~cies@bb220-255-173-162.singnet.com.sg) |
| 02:07.00 | linux_learner | but wont it loose my kicker setings |
| 02:07.16 | grepper | yes |
| 02:07.30 | linux_learner | i thought so |
| 02:07.42 | linux_learner | whats libc.so.6 |
| 02:07.43 | grepper | so mv them instead |
| 02:07.58 | grepper | a basic glibc library |
| 02:08.09 | linux_learner | thats mentioned in the backtracer |
| 02:08.11 | linux_learner | thats mentioned in the backtrace |
| 02:08.40 | grepper | no doubt |
| 02:09.11 | linux_learner | why |
| 02:10.14 | linux_learner | running updatedb |
| 02:11.16 | grepper | because its a basic C library and likely to show up in a backtrace |
| 02:11.41 | linux_learner | ok so its not bad then |
| 02:12.01 | grepper | no, not necessarily bad |
| 02:12.05 | linux_learner | ok |
| 02:12.08 | grepper | not that I can read a backtrace ;) |
| 02:12.14 | linux_learner | lol |
| 02:12.19 | linux_learner | i cant either |
| 02:12.19 | annma | t-jack: what happened to your ankle? |
| 02:12.24 | linux_learner | but i keep tryinlibqt-mt.so.3 |
| 02:12.39 | linux_learner | but i keep tryin |
| 02:12.44 | grepper | eh ? |
| 02:12.47 | linux_learner | whats libqt-mt.so.3 |
| 02:13.05 | grepper | threaded qt library |
| 02:13.08 | t-jack | annma: ripped ^> apart... fibula sharded. |
| 02:13.15 | grepper | ouch |
| 02:13.28 | annma | :( |
| 02:13.43 | grepper | motorbike ? |
| 02:13.56 | t-jack | I never felt real pain... just a horrible wrongness. |
| 02:14.15 | t-jack | grepper: bicycle. |
| 02:14.31 | grepper | nasty |
| 02:14.36 | annma | yeah |
| 02:14.51 | t-jack | 4 months in nursing home |
| 02:16.00 | t-jack | Happened almost year .5 ago... and now I get a spasm. Doesn't bode well. |
| 02:16.44 | annma | :( |
| 02:16.51 | annma | you cannot do any sport then? |
| 02:17.23 | t-jack | I can run and play basketball. |
| 02:18.03 | t-jack | It does bother me... but only bothers. |
| 02:18.21 | t-jack | Football, I think, is just out. |
| 02:18.38 | *** join/#kde SuperL4g (~colbyirc@12-215-67-149.client.mchsi.com) |
| 02:19.51 | *** join/#kde dbglt (~isaneo@220-245-134-44.tpgi.com.au) |
| 02:22.59 | annma | basketball is demanding |
| 02:23.04 | annma | but nice |
| 02:23.08 | annma | I played a bit |
| 02:23.25 | annma | I do karate now |
| 02:23.58 | t-jack | Oh that's not so demanding. ;) |
| 02:24.12 | annma | you have to run fast |
| 02:24.34 | t-jack | From how many opponants? |
| 02:24.51 | annma | lol, I thought about basketball |
| 02:24.57 | t-jack | Oh OK |
| 02:25.08 | t-jack | ;) |
| 02:25.14 | t-jack | ;-) |
| 02:25.20 | annma | in karate we don't run |
| 02:25.45 | linux_learner | just kick butt |
| 02:25.53 | linux_learner | ;) |
| 02:27.02 | annma | kicking fast is not so easy |
| 02:27.07 | linux_learner | true |
| 02:27.09 | annma | but I manage! |
| 02:27.19 | linux_learner | i always prefered kung fu |
| 02:27.37 | annma | I choose karate because my daughter started it |
| 02:27.41 | linux_learner | ic |
| 02:27.49 | annma | and there's no kung fu nearby |
| 02:27.57 | fred87 | annma, is it for your self-defence then? |
| 02:28.00 | annma | but the club spirit is amazing |
| 02:28.03 | annma | lol |
| 02:28.06 | annma | not at all |
| 02:28.11 | t-jack | Well I think I may never even pretense to karate again. Never had a teacher, and now my ankle. |
| 02:28.12 | annma | it's for the fun and sport |
| 02:28.36 | annma | the people here are just amazing and it's so nice for women |
| 02:28.44 | annma | evryone is equal |
| 02:28.53 | annma | the spirit is great |
| 02:29.38 | grepper | I got turned off karate in Uni |
| 02:29.48 | annma | ohhh |
| 02:29.57 | grepper | I had an instructor who thought he was Jean Claude |
| 02:30.02 | annma | some teachers can be rough |
| 02:30.04 | grepper | very martial |
| 02:30.06 | annma | lol |
| 02:30.10 | linux_learner | i found kung fu stimulating and relaxing |
| 02:30.10 | annma | I see |
| 02:30.25 | linux_learner | i do some teaching |
| 02:30.37 | annma | here they try to get the spirit of it in the kids |
| 02:30.40 | grepper | his opening line was "at some point in their life, everyone here is going to something like karate to save their life" |
| 02:30.45 | grepper | it got worse from there |
| 02:30.47 | annma | a short meditation before starting |
| 02:30.53 | annma | ohhh |
| 02:30.59 | annma | grepper: plain wrong |
| 02:31.01 | grepper | annma: I think I would really like the kata though |
| 02:31.06 | t-jack | SCO goes for another bite at IBM... |
| 02:31.09 | annma | katas are great |
| 02:31.14 | grepper | I've done some tai chi and yoga |
| 02:31.16 | t-jack | Mad Dog, Bad Dog... |
| 02:31.37 | linux_learner | katas are fun |
| 02:31.47 | linux_learner | especiall;y when you make your own up |
| 02:31.58 | annma | or when you do them in a group |
| 02:32.01 | linux_learner | yeah |
| 02:32.06 | t-jack | grepper: I've done tai chi and chai tea... I'm better at chai tea. |
| 02:32.13 | grepper | I used to do my own squash kata's ;) |
| 02:32.15 | linux_learner | lol |
| 02:32.16 | grepper | :) |
| 02:32.19 | annma | ;) |
| 02:32.40 | grepper | seriously, its a great way to train |
| 02:32.54 | *** join/#kde AssociateX (~SouthBoun@24-117-130-246.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 02:35.07 | t-jack | grepper: Ashida Kim. He's a ninjutsu instructor emphasizing the martial aspects. |
| 02:35.18 | jorgp2 | can you run kmixctrl from konsole? |
| 02:36.27 | annma | no |
| 02:36.38 | annma | kmix: ERROR: snd_ctl_open err=No such device |
| 02:36.39 | grepper | ? |
| 02:37.03 | jorgp2 | annma: why would I not have a mixer in control center? |
| 02:37.17 | annma | how come? |
| 02:37.35 | annma | do I have one? |
| 02:37.45 | annma | where is it? |
| 02:37.52 | grepper | maybe you could use a dcop call |
| 02:37.54 | jorgp2 | well, having an issue with kde starting and zeroing my volumes |
| 02:38.15 | annma | I do that in KMix |
| 02:38.15 | jorgp2 | control center -> sound && MM |
| 02:38.30 | annma | and where is that? |
| 02:38.44 | jorgp2 | kcontrol |
| 02:39.07 | annma | yes but then? in sound && mm? |
| 02:39.27 | jorgp2 | according to the docs, if you installed kdemultimedia you should have a mixer in sound && MM, but I do not |
| 02:39.35 | annma | I don't have the mis=xer settings |
| 02:39.48 | annma | I do not and I have nearly all of kde |
| 02:40.00 | jorgp2 | oh, kdemm is installed |
| 02:42.06 | jorgp2 | for some reason, when I start kde it zeros all my alsa volumes |
| 02:44.54 | *** join/#kde carles (~carles@164.125.64.51) |
| 02:48.40 | annma | not found |
| 02:50.44 | *** part/#kde Fenix_NBK_ (~Fenix_NBK@bzq-193-33.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 02:51.09 | AssociateX | how do I boost up the mic? |
| 02:51.16 | AssociateX | hello people |
| 02:51.58 | AssociateX | anyone? |
| 02:54.40 | *** join/#kde iav (~iav@rdu162-247-081.nc.rr.com) |
| 02:55.17 | iav | can kde do things like insert accented vowels with an easy shortcut (like accented a by pressing alt-a or something)? |
| 02:56.10 | iav | i looked around control panel, didn't see anything, but there's so much there its easy to miss |
| 02:57.38 | annma | one of the US layout can do that with the ' key |
| 02:57.45 | annma | and some other keys |
| 02:58.16 | *** join/#kde Paleo (~paleowarr@69.156.172.186) |
| 03:01.15 | cies | iav: i like to switch to US-international sometimes |
| 03:01.40 | iav | intl is the only (us) variant installed on my kde |
| 03:01.49 | iav | áéç |
| 03:01.51 | iav | coolness! |
| 03:01.57 | cies | iav: then the '"`^, etc appear after a space |
| 03:02.30 | cies | but 'a will become a a-acctent-grave |
| 03:03.03 | iav | èüû this is really awesome. just like on macs! thanks all |
| 03:03.17 | *** part/#kde linux_learner (~linux_lea@ip68-226-20-172.tc.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:03.19 | cies | yr welcome |
| 03:04.22 | cies | iav: btw do you know there is a little switching icon for the system tray? [i forgot where it can be turned on] |
| 03:05.13 | *** join/#kde geoaxis (~geoaxis@triangle.binary.net) |
| 03:05.16 | geoaxis | hello ppl |
| 03:05.32 | iav | regional & access -> key layout -> switching options -> show indicator (this??) |
| 03:05.40 | cies | iav: yeps |
| 03:05.41 | geoaxis | looking for nice kspaslh themes ...Mac OS alike.. |
| 03:06.07 | cies | geoaxis: searched kde-look.org? |
| 03:06.29 | geoaxis | cies : yes |
| 03:06.38 | cies | and... |
| 03:06.44 | cies | ...found some? |
| 03:07.03 | geoaxis | i was just wondering if some one has a good one whihc is not on kde-look |
| 03:07.20 | cies | okay |
| 03:07.35 | geoaxis | cause i used to have some good ones and publish them later ..just being lazy |
| 03:07.48 | cies | i only made a nice background lately |
| 03:08.00 | cies | which i didnt uploaded (yet) |
| 03:08.29 | *** join/#kde KonvIRC (~konversat@24-193-108-12.nyc.rr.com) |
| 03:10.07 | *** join/#kde KonvIRC (~konversat@24-193-108-12.nyc.rr.com) |
| 03:18.45 | MrDarkUser | wow... scim has a qt module!! how many of y'all use it? |
| 03:21.24 | illogic-al | MrDarkUser: what's scim? |
| 03:24.17 | *** join/#kde crz|unhappy (~crz@ip3.cab0.lsn.starman.ee) |
| 03:25.59 | *** join/#kde gh (~gh@gh.registered) |
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| 03:36.57 | *** join/#kde Nirak (~nirak@c-67-168-186-202.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:41.13 | *** join/#kde _KonvIRC_ (nobody@24-56-163-92.nm.warpdriveonline.com) |
| 03:52.46 | t-jack | come c'est clochard en englais, sil vous plait? |
| 03:53.07 | illogic-al | what's in english? |
| 03:53.23 | Nirak | clochard. |
| 03:53.25 | Nirak | whatever that is. |
| 03:53.41 | illogic-al | t-jack: clockard isn't a word i know |
| 03:53.50 | illogic-al | of course you won't understand that... |
| 03:54.09 | t-jack | That's... illogic-al... |
| 03:54.13 | illogic-al | t-jack: qu'est ce clochard en angliase |
| 03:54.29 | illogic-al | *anglais |
| 03:54.39 | illogic-al | he speaks english. lovely |
| 03:54.43 | Nirak | parle anglais, svp. |
| 03:55.07 | illogic-al | parlez |
| 03:55.09 | t-jack | So properly is What is closh... not How is... ? |
| 03:55.28 | Nirak | depends what your asking. |
| 03:55.33 | illogic-al | Nirak: you know parlay from Pirates of the Caribbean makes so much sense now |
| 03:55.41 | Nirak | illogic-al, yes, yes it does. |
| 03:55.50 | illogic-al | it's really Parlez. the french word for speak! |
| 03:56.03 | illogic-al | and they say irc is a vast wasteland... |
| 03:57.01 | Nirak | j'parle francais un peu. but not enough to carry a conversation about uh, im assuming software. |
| 03:57.48 | Nirak | err, clochard means tramp. |
| 03:57.49 | Nirak | heh. |
| 03:57.59 | Nirak | how is tramp in english? |
| 03:58.38 | t-jack | Nirak: That's how I thought the French interog was constructed. |
| 03:59.06 | Nirak | well, uh. |
| 03:59.07 | illogic-al | why ask french in an all english channel? |
| 03:59.25 | Nirak | the how is, wasnt bad, but im not sure what you were trying to ask. |
| 04:00.12 | Nirak | and actually, thats not how is, c'est la vie, thats life. |
| 04:00.14 | t-jack | Nirak: i was looking for the English translation of 'clochard'? |
| 04:00.19 | Nirak | tramp. |
| 04:00.50 | t-jack | Nirak: I figured, and heard, by now. :) But thanks. |
| 04:03.31 | t-jack | hmm... Kung Fu Against The 7 Golden Vimpires... In Spanish, but anyone interested? |
| 04:04.37 | t-jack | Guaranteed not to rile RIAA... |
| 04:04.48 | illogic-al | a chinese movie in spanish on an english speaking channel... |
| 04:04.55 | illogic-al | somehow that just seems wrong |
| 04:05.28 | t-jack | LOL |
| 04:06.04 | t-jack | Worse... French motif... |
| 04:07.54 | t-jack | Falcon Packs The Fudge... |
| 04:09.19 | t-jack | Le Dragon Du Lac De Feu... |
| 04:10.00 | illogic-al | the dragon of Feu's lake? |
| 04:10.24 | *** join/#kde cshobe (~cshobe@evrtwa1-ar18-4-41-216-097.evrtwa1.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 04:10.43 | illogic-al | the lake's dragon of feu? |
| 04:10.51 | t-jack | Dunno |
| 04:11.05 | cshobe | weeeeeee, running kde compiled natively for QT/Apple on OS X :) |
| 04:11.18 | fred87 | cshobe it work properly? |
| 04:11.19 | t-jack | Die Macht Der Shaolin... |
| 04:11.22 | illogic-al | the draogn of the lake of feu. literally |
| 04:11.30 | cshobe | fred87: it's a bit buggy, but mostly works |
| 04:11.43 | t-jack | Die Macht Der Shaolin... |
| 04:11.50 | cshobe | fred87: http://casey.allen.shobe.info/images/screenshots/kopete_osx.jpg |
| 04:12.20 | cshobe | just for fun though... |
| 04:12.23 | cshobe | I really love OS X |
| 04:12.35 | cshobe | I haven't had the slightest temptation to use my linux box since buying this machine a few days ago. |
| 04:13.29 | t-jack | And Rogue Shemale Adventures... Weird movies these Euro's make... |
| 04:14.31 | cshobe | t-jack: eh? |
| 04:14.53 | *** join/#kde AssociateX (~SouthBoun@24-117-130-246.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 04:15.05 | t-jack | cshobe: Bite yer tongue, yung'n. Not everyone can shell out 3500 dollars on a powerpc... |
| 04:15.20 | cshobe | eh? |
| 04:15.25 | cshobe | I have a G4 1GHz Powerbook 12! |
| 04:15.29 | cshobe | 12" |
| 04:15.33 | cshobe | you can get them on apple.com for $1200 |
| 04:16.22 | cshobe | less on ebay I'm sure. |
| 04:17.25 | t-jack | waah! Ev'body else gets pooters fer so much lesser den me! |
| 04:20.11 | t-jack | I wan' gMac book fer 12 hunnrred too! Wiff a 17 inch screen! |
| 04:20.25 | cshobe | no |
| 04:20.32 | cshobe | $1200 will get you a 12" screen :) |
| 04:20.53 | cshobe | but then you can plug in your 21" vga monitor as a second display :) |
| 04:21.09 | t-jack | Den I wan' a17 inch fer 17 hunnred... |
| 04:21.26 | cshobe | it's over $2000 I think |
| 04:21.33 | t-jack | waah! |
| 04:21.39 | cshobe | but has bigger hard drive, faster processor, dvd-r, etc. |
| 04:22.21 | t-jack | ( and you realize this is an unconvincing simulation of a 3-year-old's speach) ;) |
| 04:22.41 | cshobe | you realize I don't care |
| 04:23.35 | t-jack | And if I cared what you thought about it I wouldn't have done it. |
| 04:23.42 | t-jack | Bah |
| 04:23.53 | cshobe | and if I cared what you thought I wouldn't be telling you what I think |
| 04:24.01 | t-jack | Anyway... |
| 04:24.32 | cshobe | NO |
| 04:24.37 | cshobe | there shall be no anyway |
| 04:24.40 | cshobe | there is only one way |
| 04:24.43 | cshobe | TO HELL |
| 04:25.18 | t-jack | There's a place in Des Moines selling Win2K p2/p3 comps for 800+. |
| 04:25.49 | cshobe | The finest windows machine on the planet is worth no more than $500, and only because you can install linux on it. |
| 04:25.59 | t-jack | oop! |
| 04:26.24 | cshobe | I always like the crazy bastard at the computer shows who's selling P133s running Windows 95 for $400-$500 |
| 04:26.37 | cshobe | "internet ready" |
| 04:26.45 | cshobe | "has dialup modem" |
| 04:27.01 | t-jack | And people buy them. |
| 04:27.10 | cshobe | yes |
| 04:27.30 | cshobe | well he can go out and get 20 of them |
| 04:27.37 | cshobe | drag them all to the computer show. |
| 04:27.39 | cshobe | sell one. |
| 04:27.43 | cshobe | go home with a profit :) |
| 04:28.46 | t-jack | And Beowulf the other 19 and hack the idiot who bought the winshit. |
| 04:28.50 | cshobe | once upon a time, windows had a better UI than linux desktops |
| 04:28.58 | cshobe | KDE changed all that, and now KDE is much better than Windows. |
| 04:29.07 | cshobe | The next challenge is to beat Aqua |
| 04:29.40 | t-jack | Better UI != better GUI... |
| 04:29.52 | cshobe | it is both |
| 04:30.06 | cshobe | I have no desire to use KDE since I bought this machine. |
| 04:30.20 | cshobe | the apps it came with and the free ones I download are all great. |
| 04:31.09 | cshobe | equal to or better than their KDE equivalents |
| 04:31.16 | cshobe | and it's much more pleasant to use. |
| 04:31.21 | cshobe | but :) |
| 04:31.26 | cshobe | kde shall get there I think. |
| 04:31.54 | cshobe | hopefully soon windows will die off finally. |
| 04:32.18 | t-jack | Well if all of kde-apps.org ever made it to each distr... |
| 04:32.28 | *** join/#kde az[a]zel (~damien@ppp52-199.lns1.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 04:32.32 | cshobe | that is not the solution. |
| 04:32.44 | cshobe | I don't want a huge distro full of 209325 apps I don't care about. |
| 04:32.52 | cshobe | I want to be able to _easily_ download and install apps though. |
| 04:32.57 | cshobe | which you can't do on linux really. |
| 04:33.06 | cshobe | (yet) |
| 04:33.08 | t-jack | i know I know... quantity != quality... |
| 04:33.23 | cshobe | people need to get over RPM and make a good system for installing packages |
| 04:33.32 | t-jack | apt |
| 04:33.38 | cshobe | apt is crap too. |
| 04:33.39 | apt | wish i knew, cshobe |
| 04:33.39 | t-jack | Not apt-get |
| 04:33.45 | cshobe | it's not friendly. |
| 04:33.47 | t-jack | Not apt-get |
| 04:34.26 | cshobe | on apple, I just click a downloaded archive, drag the icon inside anywhere I want, and run it. |
| 04:34.30 | cshobe | done. |
| 04:34.31 | *** join/#kde Caelum (~rkitover@c-24-5-143-101.client.comcast.net) |
| 04:34.51 | cshobe | packages are self-contained within a single file. |
| 04:34.58 | cshobe | well, most packages. |
| 04:35.14 | t-jack | That certainly kicks any version incarnation permutation of apt... |
| 04:35.38 | cshobe | now, it doesn't need to be that way on linux though. |
| 04:35.50 | t-jack | Indeed |
| 04:35.57 | cshobe | but a nice graphical frontend to configure (and options), make, make install for source packages would sure be nice. |
| 04:36.19 | t-jack | er... |
| 04:36.26 | cshobe | os x has a wonderful implementation of admin users too. |
| 04:36.40 | cshobe | you set a user as an admin, and it uses sudo to do everything. |
| 04:36.57 | t-jack | It wouldn't be the playpus... |
| 04:37.04 | cshobe | ? |
| 04:37.04 | t-jack | It wouldn't be the platypus... |
| 04:37.08 | cshobe | ? |
| 04:37.55 | cshobe | I think I'm going to make a linux distro soon finally |
| 04:37.57 | t-jack | Back about the inception of Slack and Debian Linux used a platypus as mascot logo. |
| 04:37.58 | cshobe | it's been brewing for ages. |
| 04:38.14 | t-jack | Back about the inception of Slack and Debian Linux used a platypus as mascot logo. |
| 04:38.38 | cshobe | precompiled binaries are a mess, IMHO. |
| 04:38.54 | cshobe | they are specific to one particular distro with certain versions of certain packages installed in certain places... |
| 04:38.55 | t-jack | IM2 |
| 04:38.59 | cshobe | there must be a better way. |
| 04:39.13 | cshobe | windows/apple aren't plagued with this problem. |
| 04:39.23 | t-jack | Standardization... |
| 04:39.36 | cshobe | you can install windows in /winfoo and office in /progbar/office and it still works |
| 04:40.06 | cshobe | but try a binary from a system with a lib in /usr/lib instead of /lib, and it won't work. |
| 04:40.22 | cshobe | I wonder if GNU autotools are to blame |
| 04:40.23 | t-jack | TThere is only one Windows. Only one MacOS. There are many nices... |
| 04:40.34 | cshobe | no... |
| 04:40.39 | cshobe | I'm talking about linux and linuex |
| 04:40.43 | cshobe | redhat and suse |
| 04:40.50 | cshobe | debian and slackware..whatever. |
| 04:41.02 | cshobe | the same exact version of the same distro with a dependency installed in a different prefix. |
| 04:41.13 | cshobe | binaries on linux seem too specific. |
| 04:42.00 | t-jack | That's true for Unix in general. BSD bin won't run on SuSE. |
| 04:42.21 | cshobe | well, that's because the kernels are different |
| 04:42.28 | cshobe | the application formats are totally different. |
| 04:42.39 | t-jack | But it's still Unix... |
| 04:42.39 | cshobe | but...linux bins will work on freebsd :P |
| 04:43.00 | t-jack | Only becuase of linuxbase API. |
| 04:43.10 | t-jack | Or is it an ABI? |
| 04:43.11 | cshobe | kind of. They're different o/s's |
| 04:43.18 | cshobe | linux is not unix |
| 04:43.26 | cshobe | and solaris unix != bsd unix. |
| 04:43.43 | cshobe | it's not like linux 2.4.22 versus linux 2.6.2 - both linux |
| 04:43.55 | cshobe | same binaries will work on either (generally) |
| 04:44.08 | t-jack | As I say, Unix is too farctionated for a one-size-fits-all pkg mech. |
| 04:44.22 | cshobe | that's just the application format. |
| 04:44.28 | cshobe | i.e. ELF versus a.out. |
| 04:44.39 | cshobe | but sometimes linux can support other application formats depending on architecture. |
| 04:44.40 | t-jack | Fair enough. |
| 04:44.47 | cshobe | for instance Linux on Sparc will run Solaris binaries. |
| 04:45.08 | t-jack | That's hardware-dependent. |
| 04:45.20 | t-jack | With patches. |
| 04:45.23 | cshobe | yep. |
| 04:45.44 | cshobe | that's why windows x86 binaries won't work on windows nt on alpha |
| 04:45.47 | t-jack | And my point. Software is too fluid. |
| 04:46.07 | cshobe | right, so the ideal installer should compile for you :) |
| 04:46.13 | cshobe | but make it very easy. |
| 04:46.44 | t-jack | I think we're FINALLY arriving to the same frequency. :P |
| 04:47.06 | cshobe | my linux doesn't have a /usr :) |
| 04:47.35 | cshobe | http://casey.allen.shobe.info/linux_deviation.html |
| 04:49.35 | t-jack | You want a Linux, not a unix, that can intelligently determine hardware/software differences, install the proper patches, configure itself, and be standardized. One basic subsystem that'll work on all hardware, with all differences in distr structure... |
| 04:49.38 | fred87 | cshobe: http://relink.sourceforge.net/ <<< may interest you |
| 04:50.10 | cshobe | no, something that works on any unix :) |
| 04:50.26 | fred87 | relink supposedly works on any unix with perl |
| 04:50.31 | t-jack | But that's still the right idea? |
| 04:50.50 | cshobe | But if I'm installing kdenetwork/kopete, let's say, and I don't select the jabber plugin, then I don't want to be bothered with jabber plugin dependencies. That's one flaw of binary distributions. |
| 04:51.00 | cshobe | you have to go with the distributor's choices. |
| 04:51.20 | fred87 | relink aint binary... |
| 04:51.25 | t-jack | Unless you use Slack or LFS. |
| 04:51.44 | t-jack | cshobe: Check out relink... |
| 04:51.50 | cshobe | fred87: nah, I can easily remove packages |
| 04:51.53 | cshobe | fred87: did you see the URL I pasted? |
| 04:52.01 | cshobe | read the part under "Package Users" |
| 04:52.08 | fred87 | yes, i read it, which is why i thought you might be interested in relink |
| 04:52.21 | cshobe | I also don't want separate directories for each app. |
| 04:52.25 | cshobe | I thought about doing that... |
| 04:52.29 | cshobe | some people do I think |
| 04:52.36 | cshobe | and symlink everything in the common prefix. |
| 04:52.48 | cshobe | oh, that seems to be what relink does :P |
| 04:53.08 | cshobe | relink looks nice though. |
| 04:53.20 | cshobe | I just have my own way of accomplishing the same goal ;-) |
| 04:53.33 | t-jack | Unix doesn't use seperate dirs for each app. |
| 04:53.42 | cshobe | t-jack: it can. |
| 04:53.52 | cshobe | t-jack: Look at how most distributions use /opt/kde |
| 04:54.10 | cshobe | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:54.25 | t-jack | Not Debian... |
| 04:55.00 | t-jack | Debian retains much of classic Unix file structure. |
| 04:55.45 | t-jack | Hell, even Mandrake keeps all/most binaries in /*/bin... |
| 04:55.58 | *** join/#kde blamb (~blamb@164.9-dial.augustakom.net) |
| 04:59.25 | t-jack | So what do you mean? |
| 04:59.51 | t-jack | <cshobe> I also don't want separate directories for each app. |
| 04:59.59 | t-jack | re Linux? |
| 05:00.56 | t-jack | FOSS |
| 05:02.17 | t-jack | illogic-al: cshobe is FOSS |
| 05:02.35 | illogic-al | full of stinky shite? |
| 05:02.50 | t-jack | how'd you know? |
| 05:02.57 | Trisk[awaay] | relink looks interesting (like that thing gnu had, which makes tons of symlinks), but it's not entirely clear from the description how it deals with binaries with paths hardcoded into them |
| 05:02.58 | cshobe | heh |
| 05:03.03 | illogic-al | lol |
| 05:03.18 | cshobe | I like having ONE binary path. |
| 05:03.23 | cshobe | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:03.25 | cshobe | nothing else |
| 05:03.35 | cshobe | oh wait |
| 05:03.41 | cshobe | ~/bin :) |
| 05:03.47 | cshobe | PATH=~/bin:/bin |
| 05:04.06 | t-jack | userspace should be separate from kernelspace. |
| 05:04.12 | illogic-al | that's TWO |
| 05:04.24 | cshobe | yes, but one systemwide. |
| 05:04.26 | cshobe | and one for each user. |
| 05:04.54 | illogic-al | cshobe: system: /bin. user: /usr |
| 05:05.03 | illogic-al | see how similar user and /usr are? |
| 05:05.10 | cshobe | illogic-al: How do you define the difference between system and user? |
| 05:05.10 | t-jack | One system-specific, one for all users. |
| 05:05.12 | illogic-al | that's for a very good reason |
| 05:05.30 | cshobe | illogic-al: What makes vi system and pico user? |
| 05:05.30 | illogic-al | cshobe: place where user installs is user |
| 05:05.46 | illogic-al | cshobe: status quo |
| 05:05.55 | cshobe | illogic-al: by current tratdition, user installs in /usr/local |
| 05:06.00 | cshobe | distros install in /usr |
| 05:06.16 | cshobe | "required stuff" in / |
| 05:06.21 | t-jack | user installs to /usr... |
| 05:06.27 | cshobe | the distinction seems dumb to me :) |
| 05:06.31 | illogic-al | yes but /usr is still where user installs a user's programs |
| 05:06.50 | cshobe | kernel is only one file, and in /boot usually. |
| 05:06.56 | illogic-al | if you want to complain about something complain about /bin and /sbin |
| 05:06.57 | t-jack | /usr/local is for bin compiled locally. |
| 05:07.02 | cshobe | maybe some modules in /lib |
| 05:07.15 | illogic-al | those are two system install path's. why? i don't know |
| 05:07.21 | cshobe | 'ls' is not a kernel bin |
| 05:07.31 | Trisk[awaay] | /bin and /sbin are used for tools required for basic system maintenance |
| 05:07.40 | cshobe | anyways I've been running servers with no /usr or /sbin for years. |
| 05:07.42 | Trisk[awaay] | in case the other partitions die |
| 05:07.52 | illogic-al | Trisk[awaay]: imo you only need one |
| 05:07.59 | cshobe | Trisk[awaay]: sure, IF you happen to have multiple partitions. |
| 05:08.02 | illogic-al | either /bin or /sbin. not both |
| 05:08.08 | cshobe | most people don't. |
| 05:08.11 | illogic-al | not that i really care either way |
| 05:08.20 | Trisk[awaay] | illogic-al: it's usually good to separate admin tools from general user tools |
| 05:08.27 | cshobe | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:08.34 | cshobe | Trisk[awaay]: why? |
| 05:08.50 | t-jack | cshobe: Call me a lunitic, I format several partis. |
| 05:08.55 | illogic-al | Trisk[awaay]: i say slap the appropriate persm on and we'll survive |
| 05:09.15 | illogic-al | t-jack: i have loads of partitions :) |
| 05:09.27 | cshobe | Trisk[awaay]: http://casey.allen.shobe.info/linux_deviation.html |
| 05:09.40 | cshobe | I only have one partition per hard drive. |
| 05:09.52 | illogic-al | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:09.52 | cshobe | on a single drive machine, that means one partition. |
| 05:10.07 | cshobe | illogic-al: yes, /mnt is where other drives go :D |
| 05:10.09 | illogic-al | and even more, let's not forget /home /var and /opt :) |
| 05:10.22 | cshobe | nooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| 05:10.24 | t-jack | Few partis are sufficient to desktop or workstation, server or high-end warkstation needs several partis. |
| 05:10.26 | cshobe | ;-) |
| 05:10.37 | cshobe | t-jack: why? |
| 05:10.46 | cshobe | t-jack: Why not one partition on a nice RAID? |
| 05:11.00 | cshobe | you can always use disk quota to control usage of any directory. |
| 05:11.10 | t-jack | Function separation, coz not everybody runs raid. |
| 05:11.25 | cshobe | LVM then |
| 05:11.41 | t-jack | Not everybody runs LVN. |
| 05:11.46 | t-jack | LVM |
| 05:11.52 | illogic-al | cshobe: when it becomes point and click :) |
| 05:12.04 | cshobe | not everyone runs 15 partitions either, what's your point? |
| 05:12.41 | illogic-al | that's right t-jack |
| 05:12.47 | illogic-al | i only have 10 |
| 05:12.59 | cshobe | not everyone does any one thing |
| 05:13.09 | illogic-al | ;-) |
| 05:13.10 | cshobe | but this is a discussion of what is the best practice, and what is just silly? |
| 05:13.18 | cshobe | I think /usr is silly :) |
| 05:13.28 | t-jack | cshobe: If you want standardized install subsystems, simplistic parti table, ease of use... go back to Windows. |
| 05:13.33 | illogic-al | and we all seem to disagree with you :) |
| 05:13.33 | cshobe | and /sbin more silly |
| 05:13.54 | cshobe | t-jack: no, you can have lots of partitions on windows. |
| 05:14.26 | illogic-al | cshobe you can't have a prgram files partition in windows |
| 05:14.28 | cshobe | t-jack: the install subsystem has nothing to do with this discussion, and is feasible to do on all existing platforms regardless of how people have things set up. |
| 05:14.40 | cshobe | illogic-al: Sure you can. |
| 05:14.46 | illogic-al | it's either C;/pr~ or X:/~prg |
| 05:14.53 | cshobe | illogic-al: Change the registry path for the Program Files directory to sometihng else |
| 05:14.54 | t-jack | cshobe: If you want a PC that can function at the level of a Windows mainframe (exageratuion but not by much) take linux as it comes. |
| 05:14.56 | illogic-al | cshobe: --^ |
| 05:14.58 | cshobe | like D:\Programs |
| 05:15.13 | illogic-al | cshobe: yes but that's not like linux |
| 05:15.25 | cshobe | who cares? |
| 05:15.31 | illogic-al | to illustrate on linux you could have C;/ |
| 05:15.43 | illogic-al | then C;/pr~ be a partition |
| 05:15.44 | t-jack | illogic-al: If you want a PC that can function at the level of a Windows mainframe (exageratuion but not by much) take linux as it comes. |
| 05:15.51 | cshobe | windows handles volumes stupidly. |
| 05:15.55 | *** join/#kde SecretMethod70 (SecretMeth@c-67-173-68-185.client.comcast.net) |
| 05:16.21 | illogic-al | i don't want anything that functions at windows' level :) |
| 05:16.31 | cshobe | me neither. |
| 05:16.38 | *** join/#kde Administrator_ (~Administr@64.74.191.45) |
| 05:16.43 | t-jack | A PC at the mainframe level... |
| 05:16.47 | cshobe | windows should die off by now :P |
| 05:16.57 | illogic-al | cshobe: you seem to be trying to get linux filesystem to function @ windows' level |
| 05:17.07 | illogic-al | hah! |
| 05:17.11 | illogic-al | that's rich |
| 05:17.15 | t-jack | Yeah |
| 05:17.18 | cshobe | illogic-al: no |
| 05:17.23 | t-jack | Yeah! |
| 05:17.24 | cshobe | illogic-al: how do you determine that? |
| 05:17.32 | illogic-al | if the mac isn't dead yet windows isn't going anywhere anytime soon |
| 05:17.50 | cshobe | mac makes a wonderful product :) |
| 05:18.01 | illogic-al | cshobe: by what you said earleier |
| 05:18.15 | illogic-al | cshobe: years back macs were shiity |
| 05:18.29 | illogic-al | aas a matter of fact before OS X macs were shitty |
| 05:18.38 | cshobe | illogic-al: yes, but now they're not :) |
| 05:18.52 | cshobe | thank god for NeXT :) |
| 05:18.53 | t-jack | Thanks to Unix... |
| 05:18.56 | illogic-al | but even years earlier people were predicting the fall of macintosh |
| 05:19.14 | cshobe | OS X is based on NeXT, which was also based on Mach. |
| 05:19.22 | illogic-al | and it nefver happened. just like your saying windwos should die they were saying macs should die |
| 05:19.33 | cshobe | well, not die. |
| 05:19.39 | cshobe | but assume it's rightful place. |
| 05:19.45 | illogic-al | they had valid reason, apple was in trouble financially, but MS is nowhere near there |
| 05:19.45 | cshobe | a minority like apple currently is. |
| 05:19.54 | cshobe | instead of the leader. |
| 05:20.01 | *** join/#kde desrt (~desrt@dhcp-0-20-af-d2-7c-3.cpe.mountaincable.net) |
| 05:20.12 | illogic-al | cshobe: it _is_ at it's rightful place |
| 05:20.32 | illogic-al | the computing world isn't made up of people like us who know better |
| 05:20.54 | cshobe | no, and for that reason os x should be the leader. |
| 05:20.56 | illogic-al | it's made up of people who want eye candy over stability, and low prices over quality |
| 05:20.56 | *** join/#kde ghetrino (centrino@ghettobp19.registered) |
| 05:20.58 | t-jack | Mac as a whole was POS, but they've always ruled a constrained pigeonhole segment. |
| 05:21.00 | cshobe | it has by far the best UI. |
| 05:21.10 | illogic-al | that's who windows markets to |
| 05:21.22 | illogic-al | t-jack: here here :) |
| 05:21.27 | *** part/#kde ghetrino (centrino@ghettobp19.registered) |
| 05:21.38 | cshobe | windows is poor at eye candy. It didn't even have themes unttil XP... |
| 05:21.50 | cshobe | it's only the leader because of software reliance. |
| 05:21.51 | illogic-al | OS 8? |
| 05:21.54 | illogic-al | OS 7? |
| 05:21.59 | cshobe | "I need to have MS Word" "I need to have IE" etc. |
| 05:22.02 | illogic-al | you call that shit eye candy? |
| 05:22.07 | illogic-al | it fucking GREY! |
| 05:22.08 | t-jack | Apple hardware was long considered more indestructable than DEC mini comps. |
| 05:22.15 | desrt | illogic-al; it was themeable |
| 05:22.15 | cshobe | I'm talking about OS X. |
| 05:22.18 | cshobe | right now. |
| 05:22.22 | cshobe | not 5 years ago. |
| 05:22.24 | illogic-al | at least win gave you theme choices |
| 05:22.42 | illogic-al | well if your talking now don't bring win 95 into it |
| 05:22.51 | cshobe | I'm not. |
| 05:22.56 | cshobe | I'm bringing win2k into it. |
| 05:22.57 | illogic-al | comparing OS X and win 95/98 is stuopid |
| 05:23.05 | cshobe | because the shit in XP was copied from OS X. |
| 05:23.14 | illogic-al | <cshobe> it has by far the best UI. |
| 05:23.15 | illogic-al | <cshobe> windows is poor at eye candy. Â It didn't even have themes unttil XP... |
