| 00:00.09 | Alethes | me too |
| 00:00.12 | Alethes | I like the low key look |
| 00:00.22 | *** join/#kde muadib (~mathieu@wnpgmb02dc1-58-198.dynamic.mts.net) |
| 00:00.35 | Dhraakellian | yes, Alethes, I do mentally pronounce your nick that way |
| 00:00.36 | Renze | kingsfoil? |
| 00:00.38 | Dhraakellian | yes |
| 00:00.49 | Alethes | a-LAY-thes (soft th) |
| 00:00.51 | Renze | it's a weed :) |
| 00:01.01 | Alethes | not Ah-le-these |
| 00:01.03 | Alethes | theez |
| 00:01.04 | Alethes | heh |
| 00:01.40 | Alethes | the active icons are that burgandy color |
| 00:01.46 | Dhraakellian | Al-eh-thess is how I had thought it should be pronounced |
| 00:02.04 | Alethes | I had to look it up heh |
| 00:02.06 | canllaith | mmm Alethes how did you get rss feeds into your kontact like that - some plugin? |
| 00:02.19 | Renze | akregator? |
| 00:02.21 | jepel_tailweaver | canllaith: I thought Kontact did RSS by default? |
| 00:02.26 | Alethes | I just installed akregator |
| 00:02.38 | Dhraakellian | for the most part |
| 00:02.46 | code_ | n8 |
| 00:02.56 | Dhraakellian | I'll tell you if you shorten it in a way that I don't like |
| 00:02.57 | Alethes | drakeelian? |
| 00:02.58 | jepel_tailweaver | theres an RSS feed section here in Kontact |
| 00:03.00 | canllaith | which is a damn good thing Dhraakellian because I have no bloody idea how one would even start |
| 00:03.19 | canllaith | jepel, just hush. Alethes knows what I am talking about so do not worry about it. |
| 00:03.45 | jepel_tailweaver | ok |
| 00:03.54 | Alethes | it also adds this little RSS button to konq when a page has feeds available |
| 00:03.59 | Alethes | you can click that to subscribe |
| 00:04.02 | Dhraakellian | Drake-ell-ee-an, for the lazy |
| 00:04.02 | canllaith | :) very cute |
| 00:04.19 | Dhraakellian | although the k could be moved to the second syllable |
| 00:04.22 | canllaith | oh really? ok, that's quite straightforward (assuming you are not pronouncing that in a finnish accent or something) |
| 00:04.37 | Dhraakellian | just a sec |
| 00:04.57 | Alethes | canllaith: is that can LAY ith? |
| 00:05.12 | Alethes | or layth? |
| 00:05.36 | canllaith | mmm ok well no-one can really pronounce welsh words except the welsh..... |
| 00:05.36 | Dhraakellian | http://sevilization.sevspace.com/namesorigins.html |
| 00:05.45 | Dhraakellian | and search for "dhraakellian" |
| 00:05.48 | canllaith | so can LAY is acceptable from everyone else =p |
| 00:05.55 | Alethes | haha |
| 00:06.04 | canllaith | silent th, but at the same time I do not care |
| 00:06.12 | Alethes | gotcha |
| 00:06.33 | Dhraakellian | (and yes, I do know that I have pi written incorrectly there |
| 00:06.59 | Alethes | anybody know how to set a quit msg in konveration? |
| 00:07.03 | Alethes | err konversation |
| 00:07.04 | jepel_tailweaver | lol @ canllaith |
| 00:07.09 | jepel_tailweaver | Alethes: it's very easy |
| 00:07.13 | canllaith | aye it's in the setttings |
| 00:07.17 | Alethes | weird |
| 00:07.21 | Alethes | I only found the part |
| 00:07.32 | Alethes | not at all |
| 00:07.38 | Alethes | the configs always have me lost :/ |
| 00:07.49 | jepel_tailweaver | The configs are generally good, I find |
| 00:08.22 | Alethes | I dread the day I lose all my configs |
| 00:08.31 | canllaith | lol |
| 00:08.35 | canllaith | back them up! |
| 00:08.39 | Alethes | I better |
| 00:08.47 | Alethes | I need to get them the way I want them first though |
| 00:09.05 | canllaith | mmm thinkeramik is not quite perfect on gtk-qt :( |
| 00:09.08 | canllaith | close, but not quite |
| 00:10.03 | Dhraakellian | heh |
| 00:10.13 | canllaith | akregator is in keg ? |
| 00:10.19 | mobtek | ok buffering in kaffeine blows choad |
| 00:10.31 | Dhraakellian | but I'm waiting until the idlerpg bot has connection troubles before I restart xchat |
| 00:10.38 | canllaith | heh |
| 00:10.42 | Dhraakellian | (the bot on another network) |
| 00:10.58 | Alethes | I found the ident, part and kick settings |
| 00:10.59 | jepel_tailweaver | idlerpg? |
| 00:11.09 | Alethes | part==quit with konversation? |
| 00:11.47 | canllaith | gah smoked too many smokes last night *sob* these bad bavarians are such terrible influences on me |
| 00:12.51 | Dhraakellian | canllaith: they specifically disallow cloning for idlerpg |
| 00:12.59 | canllaith | Dhraakellian, cloning? |
| 00:13.28 | Dhraakellian | multiple connections to the network |
| 00:14.32 | Dhraakellian | canllaith: perhaps I misinterperated what you said |
| 00:14.55 | Alethes | it amazes me that all the things I wanted the gnome guys to do are being done in kde and I never used kde until this last week |
| 00:15.06 | Dhraakellian | heh |
| 00:15.24 | canllaith | Tell me about it :| Gnome drove me crazy |
| 00:15.41 | Dhraakellian | just so that I can badmouth it with some credibility |
| 00:15.41 | Renze | Dhraakellian: you won't like it :) |
| 00:16.07 | Alethes | he's driving gnome into the ground |
| 00:16.19 | canllaith | I sit down at it and open up xterm, emacs and mozilla.... and that's all I use until I can get back to a sane DE again |
| 00:16.39 | Dhraakellian | ew! emacs! |
| 00:16.41 | Dhraakellian | !;) |
| 00:16.53 | sarah03 | Alethes: I didn't know GNOME needed an actual person to drive it into the ground. I thought it did that quite nicely by itself. |
| 00:17.09 | Alethes | hah |
| 00:17.17 | Alethes | I had a lot of hopes for gnome 2.x |
| 00:17.22 | Alethes | but it just keeps getting stupider |
| 00:17.26 | Alethes | like nautilus |
| 00:17.29 | Alethes | *shudder* |
| 00:17.41 | Alethes | the file selector is absurd |
| 00:17.46 | Alethes | galeon is slick |
| 00:18.00 | Alethes | rhythmbox isn't bad, but it needs a tagger |
| 00:18.11 | Alethes | I'm having to use that until I can ever figure out how to get kdemultimedia installed |
| 00:18.22 | Alethes | libtunepimp is being a bitch |
| 00:18.32 | gnoob | yikes, 20 or so min to rip each CD. This will be a while. |
| 00:18.43 | canllaith | juk is very very nice |
| 00:18.53 | Alethes | I wish I could use it :( |
| 00:18.55 | canllaith | very much like rhythmbox in how it handles playlists but with a tagger |
| 00:19.20 | gnoob | if i set the device to my DVD burner it may rip faster? |
| 00:20.11 | Dhraakellian | Alethes: I believe you can get amaroK working without kdemultimedia |
| 00:20.27 | Alethes | is it anything like juk or rhythmbox? |
| 00:20.30 | Dhraakellian | (install without arts) |
| 00:20.33 | Dhraakellian | amarok.kde.org |
| 00:23.15 | canllaith | it hogged all my cpu, and crashed every time I tried to change the output plugin to something other than arts. Yuk. |
| 00:23.56 | Renze | canllaith: didn't JuK do something similar in past versions? :) |
| 00:24.25 | canllaith | Renze, yeah it had a bug where it ate memory then died |
| 00:24.49 | *** join/#kde Ireul ([U2FsdGVkX@host207-73.pool80181.interbusiness.it) |
| 00:24.50 | Dhraakellian | amarok is pretty good |
| 00:24.57 | Renze | mmmmm... tasty memory... |
| 00:26.36 | canllaith | pretty much all of kdemultimedia had me annoyed in < 3.3.2 =p |
| 00:27.14 | Dhraakellian | canllaith: when did you try amaroK |
| 00:27.15 | Dhraakellian | ? |
| 00:27.25 | canllaith | Dhraakellian, gosh it would have been 2 months ago at least |
| 00:28.21 | mobtek | hmm anyone know how I force kaffeine to buffer in the background instead of pausing a stream? |
| 00:28.28 | Alethes | it's on the wishlist of course |
| 00:28.37 | Dhraakellian | 1.1 was released in september |
| 00:28.47 | Renze | mobtek: it does here, but it's not kaffeine doing it, it's xine-lib |
| 00:28.52 | canllaith | mmm I think it might have been an earlier version than that |
| 00:29.00 | Dhraakellian | 1.1.1 was early october |
| 00:29.01 | canllaith | I have a vague memory at any rate |
| 00:29.07 | Dhraakellian | 1.0.2 then, perhaps? |
| 00:29.18 | Dhraakellian | a lot has changed since then |
| 00:29.22 | canllaith | Might have been Dhraakellian |
| 00:29.48 | Renze | mobtek: the only time I get a pause in the stream is if the buffer runs out because the stream has stopped for some reason |
| 00:30.14 | mobtek | hmmm Renze |
| 00:30.17 | mobtek | I see this alot |
| 00:30.28 | mobtek | unless a lot of streams are stuffed :P |
| 00:30.32 | Dhraakellian | it isn't shit software anymore |
| 00:30.37 | mobtek | :) |
| 00:30.46 | canllaith | if you say so |
| 00:30.54 | Dhraakellian | imho |
| 00:30.55 | mobtek | Renze: yes it is xine-lib :) |
| 00:31.00 | Renze | mobtek: I only listen to the streams provided free-of-bandwidth-charge by my ISP |
| 00:31.18 | canllaith | you amarok fanboys telling everyone to use it when it was so unstable it caused major problems - that is why quite a few people are of the opinion it's shit =p |
| 00:31.23 | mobtek | hehe I'm trying to watch Dutch tv news |
| 00:31.29 | mobtek | Journaal |
| 00:31.30 | mobtek | :) |
| 00:31.45 | Dhraakellian | canllaith: you do have a bit of a point there, I suppose |
| 00:31.50 | canllaith | ah I was watching that the other night ;) and also then some icelandic music channels (I am in NZ, so I think that is so cool :)) |
| 00:31.53 | Renze | mobtek: do you have enough bandwidth to handle the stream? |
| 00:32.10 | canllaith | Dhraakellian, I mean I am sure it has impmroved by now, but the first experience means I do not think it is worth the hassle of downloading and compiling it. |
| 00:32.31 | *** join/#kde Sho__ (EHS1@dsl-082-082-102-034.arcor-ip.net) |
| 00:32.33 | canllaith | (and that I do not believe your opinion because you also told me it was good the last time I tried it ;)) |
| 00:33.09 | mobtek | Renze: yeah should do, only 512 dsl but that should be more than enough :) |
| 00:33.28 | Dhraakellian | heh |
| 00:34.36 | canllaith | Does anyone know where the configuration for the kicker systray applet is stored? |
| 00:34.40 | canllaith | erm |
| 00:34.43 | canllaith | sorry *system load |
| 00:35.02 | Renze | sysguard applet? |
| 00:35.21 | canllaith | No, the wee one that just shows you three bars |
| 00:35.24 | canllaith | cpu/mem/swap |
| 00:35.36 | Renze | hmmm... good question... |
| 00:36.24 | canllaith | System Monitor is what it shows up as in the applets list. I changed the colours ages ago to fit in with another theme and now I'd like to reset them =p |
| 00:36.55 | canllaith | mmm it seems to be ktimemon_panelappletrc :\ |
| 00:37.04 | canllaith | aye it is :| |
| 00:37.25 | Renze | weird name for it |
| 00:37.30 | canllaith | isn't it just? |
| 00:37.52 | Dhraakellian | note to self: peach jellybellies do not count as food |
| 00:38.07 | jepel_tailweaver | hehe |
| 00:38.08 | Renze | sure they do, if you eat enough of them :) |
| 00:38.17 | jepel_tailweaver | For me, food must include meat |
| 00:38.28 | jepel_tailweaver | Chicken, turkey, shrimp, scallops are the usual choices |
| 00:38.46 | Renze | mmmmm... burgers... |
| 00:38.47 | *** join/#kde markey (~me@port-212-202-209-76.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 00:39.19 | canllaith | nah drooling would be like.. burger wisconsin mmmmmm |
| 00:39.30 | Renze | nah, congo burger... |
| 00:39.32 | canllaith | apricot and chicken and cream cheese burgers |
| 00:39.33 | Renze | mmmmm... |
| 00:39.35 | jepel_tailweaver | nah drooling would be like...mmm...curry.... |
| 00:39.59 | canllaith | must have those awesome burgers next time I am in wellington |
| 00:40.13 | canllaith | which is not far away :) |
| 00:40.26 | Renze | somebody needs to open a congo burger franchise in Wellington... |
| 00:41.01 | canllaith | Alethes, http://www.hoult.org/~canllaith/kde.jpg |
| 00:41.08 | canllaith | system monitor applet |
| 00:41.34 | Alethes | I added it, but that part of the panel is blank |
| 00:41.44 | Alethes | I can go to the configuration, but it doesn't do anything |
| 00:41.50 | canllaith | :\ |
| 00:42.04 | Alethes | oh well |
| 00:42.11 | Alethes | I don't care what my box is doing anyway |
| 00:42.11 | Alethes | :D |
| 00:43.07 | *** part/#kde jepel_tailweaver (~konversat@CPE0004e28cd3c1-CM014340105960.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:43.18 | Alethes | :D |
| 00:44.04 | Alethes | seeing your system monitor makes me glad I don't have it installed :P |
| 00:44.07 | Alethes | brb |
| 00:44.33 | canllaith | lol it does the job |
| 00:45.43 | *** join/#kde jepel_tailweaver (~konversat@CPE0004e28cd3c1-CM014340105960.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:46.31 | canllaith | mmm I should probably start using kontact for stuff |
| 00:46.57 | Renze | all those poor innocent trees... |
| 00:47.30 | Dhraakellian | which was probably about a week old |
| 00:47.32 | Dhraakellian | still good |
| 00:49.05 | *** join/#kde _wirr (~wirr@iD4CC1B8E.versanet.de) |
| 00:50.02 | *** part/#kde _wirr (~wirr@iD4CC1B8E.versanet.de) |
| 00:51.05 | Alethes | is the part message for konversation the same as the quit message? |
| 00:51.19 | canllaith | dunno, part/quit and we'll tell you =p |
| 00:51.27 | Alethes | brb |
| 00:51.39 | Alethes | wait |
| 00:51.43 | Alethes | gotta add a message :) |
| 00:51.50 | Dhraakellian | Alethes: by default, I think so |
| 00:52.41 | *** join/#kde Alethes (pennywise@alethes.user) |
| 00:52.49 | canllaith | [13:45] * Alethes has quit (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:52.51 | Dhraakellian | [19:55:04]<-- Alethes has quit (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:52.58 | Dhraakellian | canllaith: beat me to it |
| 00:52.59 | Alethes | did it work? |
| 00:53.01 | Alethes | dammit |
| 00:53.05 | Dhraakellian | canllaith: whose clock is off? |
| 00:53.17 | canllaith | Dhraakellian, uh what do you mean ? |
| 00:53.24 | Alethes | I'm at 7:52pm |
| 00:53.31 | Renze | Output Of Command : date |
| 00:53.31 | Renze | Mon Dec 27 13:53:28 NZDT 2004 |
| 00:53.34 | jepel_tailweaver | I'm at 7:53 |
| 00:53.50 | Dhraakellian | okay... so mine is slightly ahead |
| 00:54.03 | canllaith | it would be me, my bios configuration utility is frustrating |
| 00:54.20 | Dhraakellian | heh |
| 00:54.26 | Alethes | :54 is correct |
| 00:54.31 | Dhraakellian | and set up correctly |
| 00:55.09 | Dhraakellian | heh |
| 00:56.22 | Dhraakellian | http://nist.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5/java |
| 00:56.51 | Renze | Alethes: is that a euphemism? :) |
| 00:56.56 | *** join/#kde Gumby (~gumby@S01060080c8b47ed9.ok.shawcable.net) |
| 00:56.57 | Alethes | no |
| 00:57.02 | Alethes | it's a hairless guinea pig :P |
| 00:57.40 | Dhraakellian | okay... |
| 00:57.43 | Dhraakellian | reset my clock |
| 00:58.37 | Gumby | can anyone tell me why a transparant icon doesnt show up transparant on the kde tasktray? icons for klipper and kmix do however icons like xchat and gaim dont |
| 00:59.51 | Alethes | http://www.alethes.net/spike/spike.jpg |
| 01:00.28 | Renze | oooookay... |
| 01:00.42 | canllaith | Gumby, because they are for gtk applications and the gtk systray type... they will not show up as transparent because they have not proper support for the KDE system tray |
| 01:01.11 | Alethes | Renze: goes up to spike5.jpg |
| 01:01.11 | Alethes | :) |
| 01:01.13 | Gumby | hrm, that blows |
| 01:01.20 | Dhraakellian | it looks like a small dog |
| 01:01.27 | Alethes | heh heh |
| 01:01.33 | Gumby | canllaith: what about programs like kwifimanager |
| 01:01.47 | Alethes | spike4.jpg is the one that looks most like him |
| 01:01.51 | Gumby | gah, I cant stant kopete |
| 01:01.52 | canllaith | that one just generally sucks |
| 01:02.00 | Dhraakellian | in the first pic |
| 01:02.05 | canllaith | you may like knemo, instead if it really bothers you |
| 01:04.35 | *** join/#kde Pupeno (~Like@host35.201-252-33.telecom.net.ar) |
| 01:07.36 | *** join/#kde Alethes_ (pennywise@northbay-dialup-209-91-161-168.vianet.ca) |
| 01:08.14 | Alethes_ | hmm |
| 01:09.19 | Alethes | hmmm |
| 01:09.25 | Alethes | kopete didn't like irc heh |
| 01:10.22 | Dhraakellian | xchat is, imho, the best GUI IRC client |
| 01:10.39 | *** part/#kde Broca (~arj@thx1138.nvg.ntnu.no) |
| 01:10.48 | Alethes | konversation is pretty similar, I think |
| 01:10.58 | Alethes | it's not as mature yet, but I think it'll be pretty close to xchat eventually |
| 01:11.13 | *** join/#kde OpenSorce (~patrov@216.47.206.84) |
| 01:11.22 | Dhraakellian | konversation shows promise, but it still has a ways to go. kvirc is too cluttered. chatzilla doesn't have enough features |
| 01:11.45 | Dhraakellian | mIRC is windows only |
| 01:11.47 | Alethes | kvirc makes no sense whatsoever |
| 01:12.04 | OpenSorce | stupid question: is there an easy way to get rid of the icon that bounces next to the mouse when I run something? |
| 01:12.06 | Dhraakellian | if they could clean it up a bit, it might be a really nice client |
| 01:12.12 | Dhraakellian | OpenSorce: yes, there is |
| 01:12.16 | Dhraakellian | next question? |
| 01:12.20 | Dhraakellian | !;) |
| 01:12.20 | OpenSorce | LOL |
| 01:12.40 | Renze | OpenSorce: kcontrol -> Appearance & Themes -> Launch Feedback |
| 01:12.45 | Pupeno | OpenSorce: kcontrol, search for startup, start, notification or something like that. |
| 01:13.00 | OpenSorce | of course! Doh! I knew that |
| 01:13.27 | Dhraakellian | OpenSorce: !;) |
| 01:14.48 | OpenSorce | ok you guys are good try this: whenever I start KDE the icons are all huge....until I run gnome-control-center (just open it nothing else) then they all go to normal |
| 01:14.57 | OpenSorce | not icons...fonts |
| 01:15.03 | OpenSorce | s/icons/fonts |
| 01:15.14 | Renze | OpenSorce: that would only affect fonts in gtk apps, not kde apps |
| 01:15.33 | Alethes | the only way you'll fix that is by running the gnome-settings-daemon |
| 01:15.37 | OpenSorce | Renze: yes true....XChat, etc |
| 01:15.41 | Alethes | or setting a font size in .gtkrc |
| 01:15.54 | Dhraakellian | hmm |
| 01:15.58 | Dhraakellian | gtk-chtheme is nice |
| 01:16.20 | OpenSorce | ah, good ideas |
| 01:16.20 | neko | i've learnt to be very careful using anything gnome in KDE |
| 01:16.20 | Dhraakellian | nicer than the kcontrol module that gtk-qt provides |
| 01:16.20 | OpenSorce | yu guys are better than google! |
| 01:16.27 | neko | sounds like a sales pitch |
| 01:16.27 | Dhraakellian | !;) |
| 01:16.28 | Alethes | yeah, who needs google and man pages when you have irc :D |
| 01:16.39 | OpenSorce | LOL |
| 01:16.55 | Alethes | I got kicked out of #linux years ago for saying, "who needs manpages when you have #linux?" |
| 01:17.04 | OpenSorce | believe it or not I run a Linux help channel on the undernet |
| 01:17.05 | Alethes | they didn't have much of a sense of humour |
| 01:17.26 | OpenSorce | Alethes: #linux on the undernet will kick you for saying pretty much anything |
| 01:17.30 | jepel_tailweaver | hehe |
| 01:17.32 | neko | man #linux |
| 01:17.41 | Alethes | this was on dalnet |
| 01:17.52 | *** join/#kde SuperSimkin (~Simkin@d207-216-42-169.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 01:18.14 | OpenSorce | Alethes: they banned me for a whole day just for asking if I could buy the channel from them |
| 01:18.21 | Alethes | haha |
| 01:18.58 | OpenSorce | I even offered to set them up another chanel #jerkswhouselinux |
| 01:19.09 | *** join/#kde dec0ding (~binarian@62.162.233.80) |
| 01:19.18 | Alethes | heh, that was nice of you, man |
| 01:19.26 | Alethes | how could they turn down such a generous offer? |
| 01:19.33 | neko | i can't belive they passed up such an offer |
| 01:19.40 | OpenSorce | really! :-) |
| 01:20.08 | Dhraakellian | http://qdb.us/43941 |
| 01:20.32 | Alethes | haha |
| 01:20.38 | canllaith | actually gnome uses a different font dpi settinig to KDE and running the gnome-control-center _will_ affect your KDE fonts on some configurations.... |
| 01:20.41 | *** join/#kde ExElNeT (~exelnet@pD95D0826.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:20.57 | ExElNeT | hmm what means skip taskbar? |
| 01:21.08 | OpenSorce | canllaith: exactly.....it's the kde menus and all |
| 01:21.14 | canllaith | ExElNeT, it means that the application will not show up on the taskbar.... |
| 01:21.22 | Renze | another reason to not like Gnome :) |
| 01:21.28 | ExElNeT | ;/ hmm then it doesnt work for me ;( |
| 01:22.08 | neko | i've just realised where i get my distrust of Gnome |
| 01:22.15 | Alethes | know what I don't get? |
| 01:22.16 | *** join/#kde Determinist (~deter@80.179.226.79.forward.012.net.il) |
| 01:22.19 | neko | i've never liked the garden ornaments |
| 01:22.21 | neko | o.o;; |
| 01:22.30 | Determinist | Renze: you around mate? |
| 01:22.35 | Alethes | gnome makes no effort to get along with any other DE or software that doesn't fit with it |
| 01:22.44 | Renze | I'm quite round, yes... and sensitive about it :) |
| 01:22.47 | Alethes | but KDE has things like qt-gtk or whatever, etc |
| 01:22.50 | Determinist | Renze: :P |
| 01:22.54 | neko | to me there only a couple of steps short of clowns |
| 01:22.55 | Determinist | Renze: may i pm you? |
| 01:23.15 | Renze | Determinist: I suppose so... |
| 01:23.25 | neko | s/there/they're |
| 01:23.44 | ExElNeT | i activated this option ... and the window still shows up in the taskbar ... |
| 01:23.54 | Dhraakellian | ack |
| 01:23.59 | Dhraakellian | there |
| 01:24.04 | neko | lol |
| 01:24.15 | ExElNeT | can i set sets of windows? or specify the group in taskbar different for each window? |
| 01:24.21 | neko | WMA wasn't so bad |
| 01:24.29 | neko | until i turned him into initials |
| 01:24.35 | Alethes | the link ain't workin' :P |
| 01:24.46 | neko | then i knew that he was an evil tool of MS |
| 01:24.47 | neko | <.< |
| 01:25.00 | Alethes | <a href="http://www.yahoo.com">Test</a> |
| 01:25.07 | Dhraakellian | ... |
| 01:25.18 | Alethes | heh, wondered what konversation would do with that |
| 01:25.41 | Alethes | ??? |
| 01:25.52 | Alethes | !!! |
| 01:26.53 | Dhraakellian | and xchat's url handler doesn't pick up the url in the quotes |
| 01:27.19 | Alethes | yeah, that's lame |
| 01:27.55 | *** join/#kde smithk (~smithk@h00045afe6d3f.ne.client2.attbi.com) |
| 01:27.56 | Alethes | urls like /home/alethes/ should work too |
| 01:28.03 | Alethes | that'd be nifty |
| 01:28.17 | Dhraakellian | heh |
| 01:28.25 | Dhraakellian | file://home/ntryon |
| 01:28.31 | Alethes | yeah |
| 01:28.39 | Alethes | it'd be useful for help channels at least |
| 01:28.42 | ExElNeT | where can i tell kde to load a firefox tab instead of the konqueror |
| 01:28.54 | Alethes | 'cause then you could tell somebody where a file was and they could click the link |
| 01:28.55 | Dhraakellian | except that I don't use konqueror for file management |
| 01:29.05 | Dhraakellian | An error occurred while loading file://home/ntryon: |
| 01:29.05 | Dhraakellian | Connection to host smb://home/ntryon is broken. |
| 01:29.18 | neko | seeing as /this/ is one of the ways of meaning italics, there'd be a lot of room for confusion |
| 01:30.04 | Dhraakellian | ExElNeT: kcontrol > KDE components > component chooser > web browser |
| 01:30.23 | Alethes | seems like every question in here is in regards to configuration paths :P |
| 01:30.32 | ExElNeT | Dhraakellian: thx found it ;) |
| 01:30.40 | Dhraakellian | Alethes: those are the ones with which I can help |
| 01:30.47 | Alethes | hehe |
| 01:31.03 | Alethes | well, to me, it says that something's not quite right with kde's configuration :P |
| 01:31.34 | neko | hmm, mine doesn't have a web browser setting in component chooser |
| 01:32.13 | canllaith | neko, what KDE version are you using ? |
| 01:32.26 | neko | 3.2 |
| 01:32.30 | canllaith | That is why |
| 01:32.42 | neko | ah, it's a more recent thing |
| 01:32.43 | canllaith | you must be using at least 3.3 to be able to change your default webbrowser so. |
| 01:32.45 | canllaith | yes :) |
| 01:33.25 | neko | sods law: the feature you're looking for will always require a version of the software 0.1 higher than you already have |
| 01:33.30 | canllaith | heh |
| 01:33.33 | Alethes | hehe |
| 01:33.37 | neko | i blame MDK |
| 01:33.38 | neko | <.< |
| 01:33.43 | ExElNeT | eyey that sounds a bit microsoft hehe |
| 01:33.43 | Dhraakellian | Alethes: there's a search tab that can alleviate most of the problems |
| 01:33.47 | Renze | everybody blames MDK :) |
| 01:33.57 | Alethes | then I have to remember search terms to find what I'm looking for |
| 01:33.59 | canllaith | yay more information on qtmozilla |
| 01:34.11 | neko | MDK got 1st place in the Linux Format distro roundup |
| 01:34.14 | canllaith | damn but I do not have any machines here I can build it on mmmmm |
| 01:34.22 | Dhraakellian | Alethes: do the search, then go back to the tree view |
| 01:34.39 | Renze | neko: I can't imagine why :) |
| 01:35.28 | neko | they said something along the lines of "it's unstable and the package system sucks, but the GUI admin works so well and it's so simple to use you just always hold on in hope that the bugs will be fixed in the next release" |
| 01:35.43 | Dhraakellian | heh |
| 01:35.49 | Alethes | then I'll wear my trusty fireproof suit |
| 01:36.12 | Alethes | haha |
| 01:36.13 | canllaith | mmm non svg icons are very annoying |
| 01:36.27 | neko | to be fair, if it wasn't for MDKs simplicity, I may not have made the first leap to using linux full time |
| 01:36.40 | neko | but i think i'm outgrowing MDK now |
| 01:36.45 | Alethes | I made that switch on slack |
| 01:36.49 | *** join/#kde davux (~davux@pepin.poivron.org) |
| 01:36.52 | Alethes | kinda strange for a first distro, I guess |
| 01:36.55 | davux | hi ! |
| 01:37.01 | canllaith | neko, I used mandrake on my laptop for quite a while. I really do like their drakconf tool, especially in later versions |
| 01:37.13 | neko | yeah |
| 01:37.24 | canllaith | I think it would be a helpful thing for our manager who is at a site 6 hours drive away from us |
| 01:37.26 | davux | any jabber-aware people here ? :) |
| 01:37.38 | canllaith | he can do simple tasks like adding users etc by himself |
| 01:37.54 | davux | Alethes: You don't like exclamation marks ? |
| 01:37.58 | ExElNeT | but the dont show in taskbar still wont work ... |
| 01:38.02 | Alethes | no |
| 01:38.05 | neko | I think knowing that MDK is one of the easiest to set up distros also has that "what if i fail to set up the new distro correctly?" doubts in my mind |
| 01:38.07 | davux | :( |
| 01:38.08 | Alethes | I don't like overly excited people |
| 01:38.09 | Alethes | :D |
| 01:38.13 | davux | ;) |
| 01:38.27 | neko | i'll be setting up gentoo on a spare box first so i know what to expect |
| 01:38.30 | davux | how sad it is. |
| 01:38.30 | *** join/#kde jadrian (~username@82.154.240.139) |
| 01:39.04 | *** join/#kde George_ (~Test@83.146.61.45) |
| 01:39.12 | canllaith | hah lycoris - I remember testing that out and laughing sooo hard |
| 01:39.21 | canllaith | It is supposed to be the easy windows like distro |
| 01:39.38 | canllaith | and the partitioner wants you to specify your partition sizes by cylinders =p |
| 01:39.47 | Dhraakellian | which means that Alethes never sees my emoticons |
| 01:39.49 | davux | Does any of you know if there is a place to chat with KNotes developpers ? |
| 01:39.51 | neko | lycoris got joint last place out of 15 distros in the test |
| 01:39.59 | Alethes | Dhraakellian: hehe |
| 01:40.07 | canllaith | Probably because all the newbies gave up at partitioning, and installed suse or mdk instead =p |
| 01:40.14 | neko | lol |
| 01:40.37 | Dhraakellian | !;) |
| 01:42.18 | Dhraakellian | heh |
| 01:42.30 | Renze | canllaith: there is, on everaldo's harddrive :) |
| 01:42.38 | canllaith | yeah I wish he'd share it ;) |
| 01:43.44 | Alethes | wtf |
| 01:43.56 | Alethes | kopete keeps disconnecting me for some reason |
| 01:44.12 | Alethes | Could not bind Jabber file transfer manager to local port, please check your settings. |
| 01:44.14 | Alethes | oO |
| 01:44.24 | Alethes | wonder what happened |
| 01:44.43 | *** join/#kde Tall-guy (~Tall-guy@hsdbrg142-165-129-229.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 01:45.14 | ExElNeT | btw which filetransfers does kopete support? |
| 01:45.45 | *** part/#kde Tall-guy (~Tall-guy@hsdbrg142-165-129-229.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 01:46.41 | *** join/#kde Venson (~Venson@user-0cdf60m.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 01:46.50 | *** part/#kde Venson (~Venson@user-0cdf60m.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 01:47.57 | Alethes | (08:47:34 pm) # You are now marked as Offline. |
| 01:48.00 | Alethes | grrrrrrrrr what's going on? |
| 01:48.08 | Alethes | I keep getting dropped from aim and jabber both |
| 01:48.50 | Alethes | something weird's going on |
| 01:48.51 | Alethes | brb |
| 01:50.55 | *** join/#kde lilo (lilo@levin-pdpc.staff.freenode) |
| 01:51.20 | *** join/#kde Borg^Queen (~Borg^Quee@dialup-4.250.132.89.Dial1.Weehawken1.Level3.net) |
| 01:51.30 | Borg^Queen | Back to the grind |
| 01:51.36 | Borg^Queen | Hey people, and others |
| 01:51.42 | Renze | 'lo borgy |
| 01:51.49 | davux | hey Borg^Queen |
| 01:51.53 | Borg^Queen | How are you? |
| 01:51.56 | Borg^Queen | hey davux |
| 01:53.13 | Borg^Queen | Ok people help me to add to my 8.4 gbs of Linux software... What good apps are out there. Please take note: AHI means Already Have It, but thank you anyway. |
| 01:53.49 | ExElNeT | is it possible to change the direction kde scrolls desktops? |
| 01:53.53 | Renze | Borg^Queen: UT2004 editors choice edition :) |
| 01:54.07 | OpenSorce | If I had that much room to spare I'd download all of FGFS (flight simulator) :-) |
| 01:54.12 | Borg^Queen | For every useful Nix app I add to the collection I get a buck. I made a bet with a friend when he said I couldn't fill a 650 mb cd with useful nix software. |
| 01:54.29 | Borg^Queen | ut2004? |
| 01:54.38 | Renze | Unreal Tournament 2004 :) |
| 01:54.41 | Borg^Queen | Game? |
| 01:54.48 | Renze | of course :) |
| 01:54.56 | Renze | but non-free :) |
| 01:55.05 | Dhraakellian | others might disagree |
| 01:55.09 | Borg^Queen | Games don't count if I have to connect to the internet and it has to be free |
| 01:55.14 | Borg^Queen | AHI |
| 01:55.17 | OpenSorce | Borg^Queen: OpenOffice, StarOffice |
| 01:55.21 | Borg^Queen | AHI |
| 01:55.34 | Renze | Borg^Queen: you need to put up a list of what you have already |
| 01:55.38 | Borg^Queen | OpenOffice is better than StarOffice anway |
| 01:55.41 | jadrian | noooooo |
| 01:55.45 | OpenSorce | Yes it is |
| 01:55.51 | Borg^Queen | 8.4 gb list? |
| 01:56.00 | jadrian | please don't... |
| 01:56.05 | OpenSorce | Borg^Queen: I'd say browse freshmeat.net and sf.net |
| 01:56.19 | Borg^Queen | Did it, they asked me to stop harrassing them |
| 01:56.20 | jadrian | Borg^Queen: I like GHC |
| 01:56.24 | Borg^Queen | GHC? |
| 01:56.30 | jadrian | Borg^Queen: Glasgow Haskell Compiler |
| 01:56.38 | Renze | Haskell is a cool language |
| 01:56.39 | Borg^Queen | Tell me about it? |
| 01:56.49 | Renze | www.haskell.org |
| 01:56.52 | Borg^Queen | Thanks |
| 01:57.00 | jadrian | it's a compiler for a pure, non-strict, functional language |
| 01:57.03 | Borg^Queen | ok next |
| 01:57.05 | jadrian | (named haskell) |
| 01:57.12 | Borg^Queen | kool |
| 01:57.18 | jadrian | well, I've heard good things about Darcs |
| 01:57.23 | Borg^Queen | Scanning now, pending assimilation |
| 01:57.36 | Borg^Queen | `darcs? |
| 01:57.56 | jadrian | Darcs is a revision control system like CVS |
| 01:58.08 | Dhraakellian | azureus |
| 01:58.15 | jadrian | there was a slashdort article about it |
| 01:58.17 | jadrian | some time ago |
| 01:58.29 | ExElNeT | qtparted is usefull |
| 01:58.33 | jadrian | by the way Darcs and GHC are available in Packman for SUSE 9.2 |
| 01:58.36 | jadrian | in case you use it |
| 01:58.45 | Borg^Queen | qtparted, I think I have that. Let me check |
| 01:59.40 | Borg^Queen | I would need parted to go with it yes? |
| 02:00.20 | ExElNeT | yes ... its a nice gui part tool ... even usefull for win32 users |
| 02:00.39 | jadrian | Borg^Queen: Workrave is nice too |
| 02:00.46 | jadrian | http://www.workrave.org/welcome/index.php |
| 02:00.46 | Borg^Queen | Workrave? |
| 02:00.49 | Borg^Queen | thanks |
| 02:00.58 | Borg^Queen | ok adding 3 to the assimilation list |
| 02:01.03 | jadrian | Workrave is a program that assists in the recovery and prevention of Repetitive Strain Injury (RSI). |
| 02:01.27 | jadrian | very cool stuff |
| 02:01.28 | Borg^Queen | Oooh like carpultunnel thing |
| 02:01.43 | ExElNeT | omnet ;) |
| 02:01.45 | jadrian | yeap, even if it doesn't hurt now, it is worth using |
| 02:01.53 | ExElNeT | well there are tons of programs |
| 02:01.57 | Borg^Queen | Indeed thank you jadrian |
| 02:02.04 | Borg^Queen | omnet? |
| 02:02.32 | jadrian | do you have Octave, Maxima, Yacas, Mupad? |
| 02:02.48 | Borg^Queen | No, what are they? |
| 02:02.55 | jadrian | the 1st is a numeric computation system (like matlab) |
| 02:03.04 | Borg^Queen | ah |
| 02:03.13 | jadrian | the others are computer algebra systems (like Mathematica and Maple) |
| 02:03.17 | ExElNeT | Borg^Queen: omnet is a network analysing tool ... but its also available on win32 ... only linux? |
| 02:03.18 | *** join/#kde Alethes (~pennywise@alethes.user) |
| 02:03.22 | *** join/#kde canllaith (~canllaith@202-0-49-91.paradise.net.nz) |
| 02:03.22 | jadrian | the last one is just free as in beer |
| 02:03.34 | ExElNeT | more network simulation ... |
| 02:03.35 | Borg^Queen | beer? |
| 02:03.36 | Alethes | what needs to be done to allow the smb shared printer option to be available in the printer manager? |
| 02:03.45 | jadrian | Borg^Queen: it's not open source |
| 02:03.50 | Borg^Queen | ah |
| 02:03.56 | jadrian | Borg^Queen: but it's "free" |
| 02:04.34 | neko | gah, it sounds too much like being a kid again |
| 02:04.39 | Borg^Queen | ok let me check all these apps out before anymore are suggested. Thank you very much people. |
| 02:04.45 | neko | limiting you to a daily limit |
| 02:04.51 | Borg^Queen | neko: what does? |
| 02:04.54 | Gumby | can anyone tell me the kde tasktray applet for monitoring laptop battery status? |
| 02:05.03 | neko | http://gnu.paradoxical.co.uk/directory/hobbies/health/workrave.html |
| 02:05.10 | Borg^Queen | ooh lol |
| 02:05.25 | jadrian | neko: difference is, you control your times, not your parents ;) |
| 02:05.42 | jadrian | neko: the similar para is that it's still for your own good :D |
| 02:05.43 | Renze | Gumby: kcontrol -> Power Control -> Laptop Battery, tick Show Battery Monitor |
| 02:05.46 | neko | ah, that's ok then |
| 02:06.04 | neko | set-limit: 24hrs/day |
| 02:06.05 | Dhraakellian | neko: depending on how hard you kick it, that could cause you to be afk for quite a while |
| 02:06.06 | neko | <.<;; |
| 02:06.09 | jadrian | :) |
| 02:06.22 | jadrian | brb |
| 02:06.30 | neko | i don't usually resort to percusive maintenance anymore |
| 02:06.51 | neko | i find that just laying the toolkit next to the computer is enough of a threat |
| 02:07.07 | neko | it's amazing how many things that simple act has fixed |
| 02:07.07 | gardo | can anyone recommend a good kde app for receiving fax? |
| 02:07.35 | Gumby | Renze: heh, unfortunately that fails with the syslog error.... "battery-stats-collector[2226]: apm_read failed with error code 1" |
| 02:07.54 | Renze | Gumby: then you need to compile apm support into your kernel |
| 02:07.59 | Borg^Queen | gardo: now that's a good question |
| 02:08.00 | canllaith | or load the apm module |
| 02:08.20 | gardo | Borg^Queen: we have one for sending but i cant find one for receiving |
| 02:08.23 | Borg^Queen | Can anyone recommend a good fax receiver |
| 02:08.34 | Borg^Queen | gardo: yes same here. |
| 02:09.01 | Gumby | Renze: lol, or apmd installed :) |
| 02:09.37 | gardo | Borg^Queen: vocp is good but i wasnt able to have it running |
| 02:09.48 | Borg^Queen | Why not? |
| 02:10.12 | Renze | people still use faxes? |
| 02:10.18 | Alethes | what needs to be done to allow the smb shared printer option to be available in the printer manager? |
| 02:10.24 | gardo | encountered problems.. thats why im looking for a good kde app for receiving faxes |
| 02:10.33 | Borg^Queen | Renze: in the business world they do. Oldies |
| 02:10.48 | Renze | Borg^Queen: still killing trees, eh? :) |
| 02:10.54 | gardo | hahaha |
| 02:10.58 | Borg^Queen | Sadly yes. |
| 02:11.11 | Borg^Queen | Alethes: what exactly do you mean? |
| 02:11.27 | Alethes | I'm trying to add an smb printer, but that option is greyed out |
| 02:11.34 | Alethes | I have samba running and working |
| 02:11.49 | Alethes | cups is installed and running, too |
| 02:12.14 | *** join/#kde jacob_laptop (~jacob@206-55-225-254.static.mbay.net) |
| 02:12.16 | Borg^Queen | Hmm that's odd |
| 02:12.24 | Alethes | I don't know whatelse needs to be set |
| 02:12.40 | Dhraakellian | it lets me waste time sooo much faster |
| 02:12.52 | Borg^Queen | lol |
| 02:13.13 | Borg^Queen | I'm don't know either Alethes usually it just works. |
| 02:13.25 | jacob_laptop | hi. I've got 2 battery monitors in my system tray. If I close one, both disappear on the next login. If I then open one, both appear. Short of wiping my entire kde config, any ideas on how to correct this? |
| 02:13.29 | Borg^Queen | Check the usual suspects, power, cable connections etc |
| 02:14.00 | *** join/#kde straw (~strawman@stjh1-3040.nb.aliant.net) |
| 02:15.03 | Borg^Queen | look for the applet rc file that that feature? |
| 02:17.29 | Borg^Queen | ok any more apps, kde one especially |
| 02:18.24 | Borg^Queen | We will assimilate your applications. You will comply, resistance is futile. |
| 02:19.51 | neko | all your application are belong to us? |
| 02:20.07 | Renze | they set up us the application |
| 02:20.14 | Borg^Queen | No, all your applications belong to us. |
| 02:20.23 | neko | launch all app |
| 02:20.40 | Renze | you have no chance to survive make your app |
| 02:20.58 | Borg^Queen | ? |
| 02:21.03 | jacob_laptop | heh |
| 02:21.09 | Renze | old joke, never mind :) |
| 02:21.24 | Renze | 0% |
| 02:21.34 | Borg^Queen | Hmm, 15 liters over |
| 02:21.45 | Renze | Beer load [\ ] 1% |
| 02:21.51 | Borg^Queen | What story, tell me a story |
| 02:21.58 | Borg^Queen | LOL |
| 02:22.16 | neko | "google, what the hell is all this all your base stuff from?" |
| 02:22.22 | Borg^Queen | thank Renze you almost made me spit out my soda |
| 02:22.38 | Renze | always happy to help :) |
| 02:22.41 | Borg^Queen | neko: pardon? |
| 02:23.00 | neko | you know the "all you base are belong to us" phrase? |
| 02:23.34 | Borg^Queen | No, never heard it before. |
| 02:23.53 | sarah03 | neko: I don't remember the name of the game right off of the top of my head, but it comes from an old translation of a japanese game. |
| 02:23.57 | sarah03 | Poorly done translation, at that. |
| 02:23.59 | neko | zero wing |
| 02:24.05 | sarah03 | *nods* |
| 02:24.05 | Renze | japengrish |
| 02:24.18 | jepel_tailweaver | japengrish |
| 02:24.20 | jepel_tailweaver | that's a funny word |
| 02:24.39 | Borg^Queen | does this have anything to do with sports? |
| 02:24.43 | Renze | no |
| 02:24.47 | Borg^Queen | Ok good |
| 02:24.50 | neko | no, an old computer game |
| 02:25.10 | neko | if it was any sports other than martial arts i would have switched off ages ago ;o) |
| 02:26.28 | Borg^Queen | Martials Arts is so much more than a sport. |
| 02:26.40 | Borg^Queen | It's a discipline |
| 02:26.55 | neko | http://www.planettribes.com/allyourbase/story.shtml |
| 02:26.57 | Renze | and a philosophy, with some of them |
| 02:27.00 | neko | it's a lot of things |
| 02:27.26 | Borg^Queen | Indeed, a health tool |
| 02:27.36 | neko | but it's also the only sport i can really be interested in watching when it is being used as a sport |
| 02:27.48 | Borg^Queen | It helps me to relieve a great deal of stress in mylife |
| 02:28.10 | neko | there's a couple of other sports i can enjoy, but only really when i'm playing |
| 02:28.36 | Borg^Queen | neko: I didn't think of that. That's true, I don't mind watching it. It's not like boxing or baseball. Although I like to watch baseball live and local. |
| 02:28.59 | Borg^Queen | Exactly, I prefer to be part of it, not watching it on TV |
| 02:29.19 | neko | that reminds me, i need to get around to setting up the kyudo-uk.info site at some point |
| 02:30.08 | neko | i'm having trouble finding a kyudojo around here, so i'm hoping that creating a site meant as a listing of kyudojo will help pull them out of the woodwork |
| 02:30.14 | Borg^Queen | I take it you're in the UK? |
| 02:30.17 | neko | yup |
| 02:30.26 | Borg^Queen | Nice. |
| 02:30.58 | neko | i've found out that there's /no/ offical naginatado scene over here at present, which is highly annoying |
| 02:31.20 | neko | i may have to make do with kendo for the moment |
| 02:31.30 | Borg^Queen | What is naginatado? |
| 02:31.44 | Borg^Queen | exactly |
| 02:31.53 | Renze | naginaga is japanese longsword |
| 02:31.59 | Renze | naginata, even |
| 02:32.01 | neko | it's a polearm |
| 02:32.35 | Borg^Queen | Ah, |
| 02:32.39 | neko | http://www.naginata.org/ |
| 02:33.13 | neko | i very graceful weapon when used properly from what i've seen |
| 02:33.28 | neko | especially considering its size |
| 02:33.38 | canllaith | is there any subject you don't know something about dear? |
| 02:33.38 | neko | s/i/a |
| 02:33.56 | Renze | canllaith: sure... women, for instance :) |
| 02:34.05 | neko | lol |
| 02:34.09 | canllaith | Renze, not true ;) You talk to me enough that you must have picked something up |
| 02:34.23 | Borg^Queen | canllaith: I always thought Renze had tator tots for brains |
| 02:34.25 | neko | i'm still waiting for the "man woman" command to work |
| 02:34.40 | Renze | women are the eternal mystery |
| 02:34.42 | canllaith | Renze is a very very smart lad. He is just very very good at hiding it |
| 02:34.53 | Borg^Queen | Yes we are :) |
| 02:35.15 | *** part/#kde ExElNeT (~exelnet@pD95D0826.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:35.43 | Borg^Queen | Women are mysteries, surrounded by riddles, wrapped in an enigma. |
| 02:36.17 | Borg^Queen | It looks like a sword staff combo |
| 02:36.32 | neko | yeah, but women also make mysteries, riddles, and enigmas look cute |
| 02:36.34 | neko | o.o;; |
| 02:36.40 | Renze | that they do |
| 02:36.57 | Borg^Queen | Do what |
| 02:37.43 | Renze | what neko said |
| 02:38.05 | Borg^Queen | Ah, yes |
| 02:38.13 | Borg^Queen | We do. Aren't we cute canllaith ? |
| 02:38.41 | Borg^Queen | lol |
| 02:38.59 | Borg^Queen | Hmm. People tell me I'm scary, so that must be so? |
| 02:39.09 | canllaith | which reminds me I must get last nights party photographs off Dave's camera |
| 02:39.14 | neko | it's possible to be scarily cute |
| 02:39.25 | jepel_tailweaver | I always say that canllaith is really cool |
| 02:39.26 | canllaith | I think there was a really good one of Andrew and me on there.. which does not happen often. Usually one of us looks stupid in any joint photograph |
| 02:39.33 | jepel_tailweaver | so if I say it enough, canllaith will be really cool |
| 02:39.36 | jepel_tailweaver | interesting logic |
| 02:39.45 | Borg^Queen | neko: no, just scary as in "don't make me cry' scary |
| 02:40.00 | neko | tears of happiness :oP |
| 02:40.02 | Borg^Queen | jepel_tailweaver: that's mean |
| 02:40.02 | canllaith | No, the opinion of one person is not enough to modify the statistical average in any meaningful way |
| 02:40.11 | Borg^Queen | neko: nah, fear |
| 02:40.12 | canllaith | Borg^Queen, lol he's like 12... no-one really cares |
| 02:40.27 | jepel_tailweaver | Borg^Queen: it wasn't meant to be mean. It was meant to be one of those things that you're not sure if it makes sense |
| 02:40.37 | Borg^Queen | Oooh lol |
| 02:40.46 | neko | fearfully cute ^.^ |
| 02:40.47 | jepel_tailweaver | Borg^Queen: I'm only 14...no one here cares too much about my opinion unless it's technical and correct |
| 02:40.49 | canllaith | jepel, a sense of humour might be a good christmas present to ask for, for next year |
| 02:40.59 | Alethes | cupsd: Child exited with status 2! |
| 02:41.05 | Alethes | anybody know what that status means? |
| 02:41.05 | canllaith | neko, fearfully cute! Yes, I love it. Borgy is fearfully cute :) |
| 02:41.07 | Borg^Queen | canllaith: ouch! |
| 02:41.45 | Borg^Queen | I make pitbulls cry and run away. |
| 02:42.06 | neko | that begs the question, how ugly is a butt? i've seen some quite cute butts |
| 02:42.18 | canllaith | indeed! |
| 02:42.20 | Borg^Queen | Oh, |
| 02:42.29 | Borg^Queen | SOB, I didn't think about that |
| 02:43.00 | Borg^Queen | I'm so ugly, my moma asked the doctor to put it back |
| 02:44.00 | neko | cute enough for mom to want to keep you close then |
| 02:44.15 | Borg^Queen | No actually. I never met her |
| 02:44.30 | Borg^Queen | From the sound of it. That's a good thing. |
| 02:45.21 | neko | i've never really been close to family, so i can't argue with that |
| 02:45.35 | Borg^Queen | LOL |
| 02:45.58 | Borg^Queen | I do wish I had a family. Just a good one. I think its better to be alone then with a bad family. |
| 02:46.19 | neko | "if they piss you off so much, move out?" |
| 02:46.26 | Borg^Queen | Indeed |
| 02:46.34 | neko | i know how you mean |
| 02:46.44 | neko | i have a kinda surrogate family atm |
| 02:46.45 | *** join/#kde Chambers` (~Thom@pcp02906040pcs.roylok01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 02:46.52 | neko | although that kinda feels weird |
| 02:47.01 | Borg^Queen | Really. Is it nice? |
| 02:47.11 | neko | in ways |
| 02:47.18 | Borg^Queen | canllaith: that's what I mean |
| 02:47.28 | Borg^Queen | In ways? |
| 02:47.33 | neko | although i'm not used to the whole idea of how to react to having any family type attachement |
| 02:48.03 | Borg^Queen | Hmm that would be an adjustment. You're no longer free to do as you please without plans. |
| 02:48.12 | Dhraakellian | let's see |
| 02:48.17 | Borg^Queen | you have to take people into consideration. |
| 02:48.20 | Dhraakellian | what are the three types of parents? |
| 02:48.24 | Borg^Queen | Oo |
| 02:48.30 | Borg^Queen | See what? |
| 02:48.35 | Borg^Queen | LOL this should be good |
| 02:48.44 | neko | yeah, it's one of the things that scares the hell out of me when i think about the possibilty of ever having a family of my own |
| 02:48.47 | Dhraakellian | there's authoritarian, authoritative, and whatever the really libertine type is called |
| 02:49.11 | canllaith | three types is complete and utter bullshit. |
| 02:49.24 | canllaith | Unless you want to include 'violent and abusive' and 'drug addicted losers' in there as two types |
| 02:49.25 | Dhraakellian | overgeneralization, perhaps? |
| 02:49.27 | Borg^Queen | Define them OH great and wise Dhraakellian |
| 02:49.39 | jepel_tailweaver | There are an infinite number of types |
| 02:49.51 | Borg^Queen | canllaith: those aren't parents, those are abusers |
| 02:50.03 | neko | which type does the "hi, you don't believe what i believe so burn in hell" type fall under? |
| 02:50.14 | neko | (a gardian, not a parent) |
| 02:50.20 | Borg^Queen | I want ones the give me love, hugs, kisses, support and chocolate |
| 02:50.20 | neko | *guardian |
| 02:50.24 | canllaith | shall we put those with 'drug addicted losers' ? |
| 02:50.34 | canllaith | Just because it would be entertaining to watch them all battle it out |
| 02:50.41 | neko | lol |
| 02:50.44 | Borg^Queen | neko: Mistakes |
| 02:51.06 | Dhraakellian | !;) |
| 02:51.13 | Borg^Queen | You started it |
| 02:51.21 | jepel_tailweaver | Dhraakellian: what's this 'off-topic' that you speak of? |
| 02:51.59 | Dhraakellian | ouch |
| 02:52.01 | Borg^Queen | Oops, gee that was my battery acid can |
| 02:52.06 | neko | whoa, i'm just getting used to the idea of being shouted at for being on-topic - you mean the rules are reversed here?!? |
| 02:52.14 | Dhraakellian | Borg^Queen: mmm.... yummy |
| 02:52.27 | Dhraakellian | neko: *snrk* |
| 02:52.29 | Borg^Queen | neko: this is anarchy |
| 02:53.56 | Borg^Queen | LOL |
| 02:53.58 | neko | mind you, there were several anarchy party candidates |
| 02:54.12 | neko | we never seemed to agree on who the candidate should be |
| 02:54.15 | neko | o.o;; |
| 02:54.27 | canllaith | mmmmm macdonalds |
| 02:54.38 | Borg^Queen | Yuck |
| 02:54.42 | Borg^Queen | Dead cow |
| 02:54.52 | *** join/#kde grepper (~ben@HSE-Ottawa-ppp161643.sympatico.ca) |
| 02:54.59 | canllaith | low blood sugar. I'm not complaining. Any food is good food right now |
| 02:55.01 | Borg^Queen | grepper: run! |
| 02:55.23 | neko | yeah, but can you really classify macdonalds as "food"? |
| 02:55.31 | Dhraakellian | Borg^Queen: for some reason, you made me think of Magical Trevor |
| 02:55.50 | Borg^Queen | Who? |
| 02:56.02 | sarah03 | neko: I don't know about "food", but "partially-edible food-like substance" perhaps. |
| 02:56.03 | neko | mind you, i know macdonalds isn't quite as bad in the states, so it may be a uk only thing |
| 02:56.08 | canllaith | neko, well I can eat the macdonalds and be ok, or I can not eat for another hour until I have finished cooking food and be very very ill. |
| 02:56.14 | canllaith | neko, I'm not in the fucking states...... |
| 02:56.16 | canllaith | thank fuck. |
| 02:56.17 | Borg^Queen | sarah03: lol |
| 02:56.19 | neko | i know |
| 02:56.50 | neko | but if the US macdonalds is better than uk macdonalds, it opens the possibility that other macdonalds are also better |
| 02:57.07 | Borg^Queen | neko: in the US it sux too |
| 02:57.15 | sarah03 | On the other hand, I won't go there because I'll be puking my guts out there if I actually bother getting much of anything beyond fries and coke/pepsi/whatever the carbonated beverage of the day is. |
| 02:57.17 | Borg^Queen | Let's face it MD sux everywhere |
| 02:57.23 | Borg^Queen | lol grepper |
| 02:57.25 | neko | compared to the uk it's good though |
| 02:57.46 | Borg^Queen | I don't think so. |
| 02:57.52 | *** join/#kde Alethes (pennywise@alethes.user) |
| 02:57.55 | neko | for the uk, they took the principle of fast food, extracted every last good point about it, and gave us what was left |
| 02:57.59 | canllaith | they have one burger here that is almost tasty |
| 02:58.06 | Borg^Queen | The ingrediants list "unknown meat by products" |
| 02:58.14 | canllaith | a chicken one with fresh salad and actually a rather nice sauce |
| 02:58.28 | canllaith | Borg^Queen, um that's not on the ingredients list here... it's illegal to sell something like that in NZ and call it food.... |
| 02:58.37 | Borg^Queen | LOL |
| 02:58.50 | Renze | fair trading act comes in handy :) |
| 02:58.55 | canllaith | It's super greasy and too much salt and very bad for you, but it _is_ real beef. It's not legal to call them beef burgers otherwise. |
| 02:59.07 | neko | "100% pure beef. made with parts of the cow not even the cow knew it had" |
| 02:59.15 | sarah03 | lol |
| 02:59.17 | canllaith | hahaha yeah that's what my dad says |
| 02:59.23 | Alethes | tripe burger |
| 02:59.25 | Borg^Queen | I'm soo grossed out |
| 02:59.25 | canllaith | 'They call it 100% beef becacuse they use the WHOLE cow!' |
| 02:59.40 | *** join/#kde Chambers` (~Thom@pcp02906040pcs.roylok01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 02:59.46 | canllaith | If you go to KFC here and get a burger |
| 02:59.55 | canllaith | you get a real chicken breast and real lettuce and tomato. It's not that bad. |
| 03:00.23 | canllaith | as Renze mentioned, the fair trading act means they have to legally tell us what is really in the food.... so they HAVE to use decent ingredients or no-one would buy it :P |
| 03:00.26 | Dhraakellian | "Meat Pies! Hot Sausages! So fresh the pig ha'n't noticed they're gone yet!" |
| 03:00.36 | canllaith | Dhraakellian, sausageinnabun! |
| 03:00.48 | Renze | sauerbraten? |
| 03:00.50 | neko | if you go to KFC here, they work on the principle that if everything tastes like chicken, anything is fair game to be sold as a chicken burger |
| 03:01.21 | Dhraakellian | and that's cuttin' me on throat, it is |
| 03:01.37 | canllaith | heh /fnick Dhraakellian dibbler |
| 03:01.47 | sarah03 | canllaith: That depends - do the people there actually read the list of ingredients in said food, or do they just buy it and eat it, much as is done here most of the time [which is why McD and KFC and etc. can get away with such shit]? |
| 03:01.55 | Dhraakellian | gotta love CMOT Dibbler |
| 03:02.12 | canllaith | sarah03, no, it is not like that here at all. Like most kids I worked at shit jobs when I was in highschool |
| 03:02.22 | canllaith | Worked at KFC, and I used to unpack the trucks that came from Inham full of fresh chicken |
| 03:02.30 | canllaith | Ingham* |
| 03:02.45 | canllaith | Fresh chicken breasts legs etc, it's all really good quality stuff |
| 03:03.15 | Borg^Queen | carnivores, |
| 03:03.29 | sarah03 | I tend to read the ingredients on damned near everything... mostly because I don't want to go be calling Ralph on the porcelain telephone. [I haven't eaten meat of any sort in the better part of the last 5 years.] |
| 03:03.36 | canllaith | I mean it's disgustingly greasy and oversalted and horribly bad for you, but it _is_ real chicken. |
| 03:03.39 | Borg^Queen | Gross |
| 03:03.56 | Borg^Queen | sarah03: lol |
| 03:03.58 | Dhraakellian | !order a regeneration chamber for Borg^Queen |
| 03:04.00 | sarah03 | I don't really like talking to Ralph, you know? |
| 03:04.09 | canllaith | sarah03, um totally understood! I don't either |
| 03:04.11 | Borg^Queen | LOL thanks |
| 03:04.45 | Borg^Queen | Ralph? |
| 03:04.50 | Borg^Queen | NEVER MIND! |
| 03:04.54 | neko | i used to work for a food transport company, so i know what happens to the meat between the preparation factories and the places that use it |
| 03:05.09 | *** join/#kde Chambers` (~Thom@pcp02906040pcs.roylok01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 03:05.09 | Borg^Queen | apt: was a NY bartender |
| 03:05.19 | Borg^Queen | GASP |
| 03:05.19 | jepel_tailweaver | I haven't eaten fast food in a long time |
| 03:05.27 | Dhraakellian | just how "omni" is that? |
| 03:05.29 | Borg^Queen | Good for you |
| 03:05.33 | canllaith | there is no fastfood in the town where I live |
| 03:05.52 | canllaith | oh - there is one shop that has fish n chips and fried chicken, I lie. |
| 03:05.55 | Borg^Queen | So you have to travel to clog an artary? |
| 03:06.02 | canllaith | Borg^Queen, no, I cook |
| 03:06.06 | Borg^Queen | lol |
| 03:06.06 | Dhraakellian | ouch |
| 03:06.18 | jepel_tailweaver | I don't care about fast food. Fast food to me is takeout chow mein or fried rice or curry |
| 03:06.25 | Borg^Queen | now now boys save that for the bed room |
| 03:06.38 | Borg^Queen | Ooh Chinese food |
| 03:06.44 | Dhraakellian | but isn't filet of sole supposed to be a delicacy |
| 03:06.45 | Dhraakellian | ? |
| 03:06.57 | Borg^Queen | Dhraakellian: ouch |
| 03:07.09 | Borg^Queen | That joke hurt |
| 03:07.21 | Renze | mmmmm... nasi goreng... yum... |
| 03:07.26 | sarah03 | Hm... about the closest I get to fast food is the stuff that gets served at the bar/tavern. |
| 03:07.45 | neko | salted peanuts |
| 03:07.57 | Borg^Queen | Unsalted |
| 03:08.16 | sarah03 | neko: Nah. Most of the bars around here actually serve pretty decent food at dirt cheap prices. |
| 03:08.36 | canllaith | Renze, I teach you ;) we can have a cookfest |
| 03:08.42 | Renze | canllaith: cool :) |
| 03:08.47 | canllaith | bbs, feeding people =p |
| 03:08.49 | sarah03 | More expensive than, say, McD, but worth the price. |
| 03:09.00 | neko | i need to find somewhere where i can get hold of cherry leaves in brine |
| 03:09.19 | neko | i want to try out this sakura mochi recipe i have |
| 03:10.04 | Borg^Queen | Well I'm off. |
| 03:10.16 | Borg^Queen | Sadly NOT to eat anymore but just to try to cook. |
| 03:10.43 | Borg^Queen | now that I'm COMPLETELY grossed out. |
| 03:10.59 | neko | the moral of this story is never talk about fast food before eating |
| 03:11.06 | Borg^Queen | Indeed lol |
| 03:11.54 | Borg^Queen | Good day or night to all |
| 03:13.25 | Dhraakellian | "He saw beans, lots of beans, lots of beans, lots of beans. Oh beans, lots of beans, lots of beans. Yeah beans..." |
| 03:17.02 | canllaith | 0_0 |
| 03:18.31 | canllaith | I don't like the internet anymore |
| 03:18.41 | Dhraakellian | heh |
| 03:24.21 | *** join/#kde Sizaint (~Sizaint@67.107.201.17.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 03:31.48 | canllaith | cvs checkout mozilla/client.mk |
| 03:32.19 | jepel_tailweaver | hehe |
| 03:33.19 | aseigo_h | canllaith: which oneE? |
| 03:33.45 | canllaith | aseigo_h, ? |
| 03:33.52 | aseigo_h | which website? |
| 03:34.09 | *** join/#kde TMM (~TMM@c3eea347e.cable.wanadoo.nl) |
| 03:34.15 | TMM | hi all!! |
| 03:34.20 | canllaith | dunno I was just clicking on stuff from rss feeds |
| 03:34.49 | canllaith | eep I already have a .mozconfig on this machine and I have never built mozilla on it |
| 03:34.53 | TMM | hi canllaith |
| 03:35.11 | jepel_tailweaver | eep? |
| 03:38.46 | canllaith | damn... anyone any good at kde docbook hanging around atm ? |
| 03:41.12 | canllaith | hi TMM |
| 04:01.18 | *** join/#kde sleek (~sleek@69-165-35-165.clvdoh.adelphia.net) |
| 04:04.43 | *** part/#kde sleek (~sleek@69-165-35-165.clvdoh.adelphia.net) |
| 04:13.24 | *** join/#kde LR23XIII (~ryan@user-vcauna8.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 04:13.38 | Alethes | YAEE |
| 04:13.45 | Alethes | yet another educational experience hehe |
| 04:13.56 | Dhraakellian | heh |
| 04:14.07 | LR23XIII | hey guys I got a question, im kinda new to kde/linux |
| 04:14.19 | Alethes | LR23XIII: you mean GNU/Linux? :) |
| 04:14.22 | Alethes | heh heh |
| 04:15.08 | LR23XIII | u know how u have music files on a cd, how do u transfer the music on the cd to ur computer as music files |
| 04:15.27 | Alethes | canllaith: hahaha |
| 04:15.42 | Alethes | I wanna be FREE! |
| 04:15.58 | Alethes | Free as in I can do whatever I want, but you have to do what I want! |
| 04:16.11 | Renze | "you" open a file manager window and "you" type audiocd:/ into the location bar, then "you" drag and drop whichever format file you want. |
| 04:16.33 | gnoob | i am doing that as we speak. |
| 04:17.03 | Alethes | :o |
| 04:17.33 | gnoob | what's a good cheap sound card that will work in linux? |
| 04:17.39 | canllaith | soundblaster live |
| 04:17.52 | gnoob | i want something better than my onboard but not to much money. |
| 04:18.07 | LR23XIII | thanks renze! |
| 04:18.08 | canllaith | they all work ... but that one has hadware mixing which is nice |
| 04:18.31 | gnoob | i got a SB live 24-bit from best buy but i don't thinks it's well supported. It's a very stripped down live card. |
| 04:18.51 | gnoob | i am going to take it back. |
| 04:19.10 | gnoob | something in the 25-30 buck range would be nice. |
| 04:19.30 | Dhraakellian | sa that I wouldn't have to worry about dmix |
| 04:22.39 | *** join/#kde gregday (500@dyr2002.ecsis.net) |
| 04:23.36 | Renze | rewhat? |
| 04:25.04 | canllaith | grrrrrr I need a faster computer :( |
| 04:25.10 | canllaith | or ssh access to a fast computer :( |
| 04:26.07 | Dhraakellian | heh |
| 04:26.28 | *** join/#kde Alethes (pennywise@alethes.user) |
| 04:28.09 | gregday | anyone else seriously not liking the new kicker tooltip thing? |
| 04:29.07 | Dhraakellian | Alethes: whatcha doing that requires so much rebooting? |
| 04:29.11 | Dhraakellian | running Windows? |
| 04:29.46 | jepel_tailweaver | hehe |
| 04:29.55 | jepel_tailweaver | why do we always diss windows in here? |
| 04:30.03 | Renze | because it's so easy :) |
| 04:30.13 | jepel_tailweaver | (aside from the fact that it's fun and mostly true) |
| 04:32.46 | *** join/#kde swim (~joshua@c-66-177-174-93.se.client2.attbi.com) |
| 04:32.56 | swim | anyone happen to run freebsd under their kde? |
| 04:33.03 | gregday | hm.. i thought NX was free |
| 04:33.34 | Dhraakellian | there's freenx |
| 04:35.05 | gregday | where? |
| 04:35.08 | gregday | the google, it does nothing! |
| 04:35.38 | gregday | hm, its from the knoppix guys? |
| 04:36.02 | canllaith | gregday, actually most people seem to really like the new kicker tooltip thing =p |
| 04:36.17 | *** join/#kde tim_h (~Tim@pD951837B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:36.30 | gregday | canllaith: well i can't decide if it's better than the old ''zoom'' but it is annoying |
| 04:39.29 | aseigo_h | gregday: you can turn it off |
| 04:39.58 | aseigo_h | gregday: mind if i ask which aspect you find 'annoying'? |
| 04:39.59 | gregday | it's cool, it's a neat example of what can be done... i'll admit that |
| 04:40.27 | gregday | it's overkill for what amounts to a glorified tooltip |
| 04:40.56 | canllaith | snap |
| 04:40.59 | canllaith | ;) |
| 04:41.12 | canllaith | overkill ? |
| 04:41.36 | gregday | the fade in effect |
| 04:41.49 | Alethes | tooltip where? |
| 04:42.10 | Alethes | ah |
| 04:42.40 | Alethes | I'm feeling kinda proud of myself |
| 04:43.01 | Alethes | just about got it set up so I can print to my wife's printer on her win2000 box from kde/freebsd |
| 04:44.54 | Alethes | aseigo_h: is a newer version of kde going to support adding applets to that desktop toolbar? |
| 04:45.15 | Alethes | I'd love to use it, but I'd rather just have one toolbar |
| 04:45.28 | Alethes | err panel/whatever |
| 04:45.47 | Dhraakellian | desktop toolbar? |
| 04:45.59 | Dhraakellian | the application menu on the top of the desktop? |
| 04:46.01 | Alethes | yeah, the one that shows the app toolbar |
| 04:46.05 | Alethes | at the top of the screen, that is |
| 04:46.09 | Alethes | yeah |
| 04:46.11 | Dhraakellian | enable it in kcontrol |
| 04:46.17 | Dhraakellian | and add the applet to your panel |
| 04:46.18 | Alethes | I couldn't get my terminology :) |
| 04:46.34 | Alethes | it can't do anything, it doesn't move or let me add anything |
| 04:46.38 | aseigo_h | Alethes: yes, it already does |
| 04:46.44 | *** join/#kde tim_h_ (~Tim@pD9E604B1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:46.46 | Alethes | oO |
| 04:46.49 | aseigo_h | Alethes: in cvs, that is |
| 04:47.07 | Alethes | ah |
| 04:47.08 | Dhraakellian | Alethes: do you have the menubar enabled in kcontrol? |
| 04:47.09 | Alethes | so 3.4? |
| 04:47.17 | gregday | http://www.datafreak.net/ahahaha.jpg |
| 04:47.26 | Alethes | Dhraakellian: not anymore |
| 04:47.30 | Alethes | but when I did, I couldn't do anything with it |
| 04:50.15 | *** join/#kde CyberSpy_ (~CyberSpy@rdu26-234-183.nc.rr.com) |
| 04:59.26 | *** join/#kde marcusU (~marcus@host-216-39-197-213.mylinuxisp.com) |
| 05:00.48 | gregday | i wonder if kopete from HEAD will build agaisnt 3.3.2 |
| 05:02.27 | canllaith | NOpe |
| 05:02.29 | canllaith | Nope* it wont |
| 05:02.29 | gregday | hm...builds... |
| 05:02.33 | gregday | wonder if it runs :P |
| 05:02.34 | canllaith | requires a newer kdelibs :( |
| 05:02.36 | canllaith | really? Gosh |
| 05:02.50 | gregday | ah |
| 05:02.50 | canllaith | no, less than that. perhaps a week |
| 05:03.05 | gregday | its sort of on and off for me |
| 05:03.14 | Renze | wow... tsunamis swept across asia... over 10,000 dead |
| 05:03.23 | canllaith | wow :| |
| 05:03.35 | *** part/#kde marcusU (~marcus@host-216-39-197-213.mylinuxisp.com) |
| 05:04.08 | canllaith | Renze, I have the party photographs from yesterday if you'd like to see |
| 05:04.22 | Renze | sure :) |
| 05:04.25 | canllaith | :) |
| 05:04.34 | gregday | canllaith: it runs, but it's not quite all there... it wont connect and the config box is empty |
| 05:05.30 | gregday | canllaith: do you have a separate user account for testing kde HEAD? ive just been logging in as root to play around with features, and logging back out, but im thinking of trying HEAD full time |
| 05:05.50 | canllaith | no... I start head using KDEDIR=/opt/kdecvs KDEHOME=~/.kdecvs |
| 05:06.05 | gregday | ah |
| 05:06.10 | gregday | i didnt know about KDEHOME |
| 05:06.13 | canllaith | :) |
| 05:06.15 | gregday | otherwise i wouldve done that |
| 05:06.42 | gregday | if i start /opt/kdecvs/bin/kdm and login as gregday, will it use kde or kdevs as KDEDIR? |
| 05:06.58 | canllaith | it will use kde |
| 05:08.03 | canllaith | for when I am using xforwarding through ssh. sh .xinitrc, and kdecvs is all up and running yay. |
| 05:09.48 | gregday | reverted to kopete from 3.3.2 release |
| 05:09.50 | gregday | *sigh* |
| 05:09.58 | gregday | so looking forward to metacontact photos |
| 05:10.02 | *** join/#kde Ci-Dev_ (~ci-dev@pD956B5F3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 05:10.17 | canllaith | mmm I guess you would recognise that outfit I am wearing Renze |
| 05:10.23 | canllaith | at least you had better or I will slap you =p |
| 05:10.44 | Renze | of course I do :) |
| 05:10.54 | canllaith | ;) |
| 05:12.20 | Renze | not that hard, since I've only met you once :) |
| 05:13.51 | canllaith | I think jes_andrew.jpg is a rather nice one of Andrew and I don't you think Renze ? |
| 05:14.21 | Renze | yes, quite nice :) |
| 05:14.32 | Renze | although you're mostly hidden :) |
| 05:15.08 | canllaith | lol yes ... and I am the only woman there not wearing a trailer load of makeup |
| 05:15.36 | Renze | heh |
| 05:17.12 | *** join/#kde astro76 (~james@astro76.user) |
| 05:19.53 | *** join/#kde daum (~daum@h-66-167-190-219.sfldmidn.dynamic.covad.net) |
| 05:19.55 | daum | yone her use anjuta/ |
| 05:20.01 | daum | i'm having a problem getting it to run the program one its builds it |
| 05:20.34 | *** join/#kde samc (~samc@ip68-230-111-254.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 05:21.24 | Renze | daum: anjuta is a gnome app, not a kde app... try in #gnome |
| 05:21.47 | daum | aye well i'm using it in kde always have too lol=p |
| 05:22.09 | Renze | kdevelop is much nicer, imho |
| 05:22.21 | gregday | bah |
| 05:22.23 | daum | Renze, i've treid to use that never could find out how to though lol |
| 05:22.25 | gregday | all anyone needs is vi |
| 05:22.32 | daum | hehe |
| 05:22.36 | Renze | gregday: and gcc :) |
| 05:22.38 | gregday | although kate is starting to get me hot |
| 05:23.18 | gregday | Renze: no, real hackers type the binary in |
| 05:23.49 | daum | Renze, you willing to take a few minutes to help me get started in kdevelop=) i've spent some time in the past messing with it and no luck |
| 05:24.13 | Renze | daum: I've only played with kdevelop so far |
| 05:24.23 | Renze | assembler isn't that hard |
| 05:24.24 | samc | is anyone here a pro with quanta? |
| 05:24.53 | daum | Renze, aye...well i just want it for the mos tbasic use(c/c++) compiler/ and to jsut run them then from the prog |
| 05:25.33 | Renze | daum: it should do all that out of the box |
| 05:25.41 | daum | hm one second lemme see=) |
| 05:26.04 | daum | I've laways had trouble sine its gives you that huge wizard with like 60 differnt type of c files to select from....and i always just get lost heh.. |
| 05:26.22 | daum | One sec pls, reinstalling it |
| 05:26.42 | Renze | daum: what version? |
| 05:26.51 | daum | 3.1 |
| 05:27.16 | Renze | daum: looks pretty straightforward to me |
| 05:27.26 | *** join/#kde chakie_ (~chakie@tux.adsl.abo.fi) |
| 05:27.27 | daum | one sec lemme see maybe i just missed it heh |
| 05:29.27 | *** join/#kde samc (~samc@ip68-230-111-254.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 05:31.10 | *** join/#kde astro76 (~james@astro76.user) |
| 05:31.44 | Renze | tsunami death toll now over 13,000 |
| 05:31.59 | Dhraakellian | ouch |
| 05:32.05 | *** join/#kde Davey (~davey@4.4.220.105) |
| 05:32.12 | Davey | is there any way to map the win key to the K menu? |
| 05:32.28 | daum | oo yes. |
| 05:32.38 | daum | i did that a while ago |
| 05:32.49 | daum | i think in controll panel there is a keyboard shortcuts section |
| 05:32.54 | Renze | what a waste of a perfectly good qualifier :) |
| 05:33.02 | *** join/#kde Squall` (~squall`@pcp07745437pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net) |
| 05:33.29 | gregday | it's not set like that by default? |
| 05:33.48 | gregday | hm, it was for me |
| 05:34.01 | Squall` | kinit 3.3.2 is not starting on my system: Slackware Linux 10.0 on kernel 2.4.26, with the message: libidn not found. Can someone tell me what package contains the libidn? |
| 05:34.04 | daum | it was for me too..but somehow i disabled it.. |
| 05:34.34 | canllaith | my default alt-tab behaviour changed between 3.3.1 and 3.3.2 :( |
| 05:35.03 | canllaith | Instead of bringing up a window that shows me a list of applications with their icons, it just cycles focus through all the windows on the desktop |
| 05:35.10 | canllaith | can I change the behaviour back to the first one? |
| 05:35.23 | Renze | Squall`: here, libidn comes in a package called... libidn :) |
| 05:35.30 | Squall` | really? |
| 05:35.45 | gregday | Squall`: libidn is in its own package. check your slackware CD under the 'l' directory |
| 05:36.04 | daum | canllaith, yes you can one sec |
| 05:36.05 | canllaith | Squall`, or go to slackware.com and use the package browser to search for libidn under -current |
| 05:36.21 | canllaith | Since that is probably the one your kde 3.3.2 was built against |
| 05:36.45 | Squall` | was libidn a neccessity in kde 3.2.1? because i had installed all of the /l directory |
| 05:37.03 | canllaith | No it wasn't |
| 05:37.03 | daum | canllaith, will be a second gotta find it |
| 05:37.08 | canllaith | only 3.3.1 and upwards |
| 05:37.20 | Squall` | ah, thanks, canllaith |
| 05:37.33 | canllaith | ty daum |
| 05:38.40 | Squall` | is that the only dependency that is new? |
| 05:39.05 | gregday | Squall`: you'll also need mono |
| 05:39.10 | canllaith | Well it is also built against quite a new glibc |
| 05:39.12 | gregday | Squall`: just kiddin :-) |
| 05:39.13 | canllaith | which can also be found in -current |
| 05:39.15 | Squall` | lol |
| 05:39.18 | canllaith | but that is all I had to install :) |
| 05:39.27 | *** join/#kde straw (~strawman@stjh1-1392.nb.aliant.net) |
| 05:39.28 | Squall` | i have to install a new glibc :( |
| 05:39.29 | canllaith | KDE packages, glibc, qt and libidn from -current and she's all good mate. |
| 05:39.37 | canllaith | It is easy Squall` just grab the package and it works good :) |
| 05:39.40 | Squall` | i know |
| 05:39.43 | daum | canllaith, ok |
| 05:39.45 | daum | go to control center |
| 05:39.47 | Squall` | but updating libc scares me |
| 05:39.57 | Squall` | i hate updating essential things like that |
| 05:40.14 | canllaith | I have done it on 8 machines now Squall` so I am confident the package from current does not do anything scary |
| 05:40.14 | gregday | Squall`: just be sure to use upgradepkg |
| 05:40.16 | daum | go to key bindings--->keyboard short cuts |
| 05:40.18 | canllaith | daum, ok :) |
| 05:40.26 | gregday | Squall`: i updated glibc and had no problems, and this is my first ever slackware install |
| 05:40.35 | Squall` | ok, thanks |
| 05:40.43 | daum | System<navigation<Walk through Windows<Alt Tab |
| 05:41.05 | canllaith | :( that is what it is already on |
| 05:41.17 | daum | hm |
| 05:41.24 | daum | i knwo there is a way to swtich that |
| 05:41.25 | daum | back |
| 05:41.26 | canllaith | and that is not the behaviour I had in the previous version |
| 05:41.32 | canllaith | mmm |
| 05:42.05 | daum | hmmm |
| 05:42.25 | daum | ugh |
| 05:42.40 | *** join/#kde Davey (~davey@davey.user) |
| 05:42.46 | Davey | sorry, did someone answer my question? |
| 05:43.07 | Renze | canllaith: kcontrol -> Desktop -> Window Behaviour, Show window list while switching windows? |
| 05:43.24 | canllaith | mmm |
| 05:43.30 | daum | canllaith, hmmmmm |
| 05:43.42 | daum | Davey, lol |
| 05:43.46 | Davey | my question was, can you map the Start key to the K menu, just FYI :) |
| 05:43.55 | canllaith | YAY |
| 05:43.59 | canllaith | Davey, yes you sure can :) |
| 05:44.02 | daum | canllaith, you got it? |
| 05:44.05 | Davey | canllaith: how? :) |
| 05:44.11 | daum | Davey |
| 05:44.14 | daum | control center |
| 05:44.25 | Davey | yes, I've looked all over there :/ |
| 05:44.27 | daum | key binding>keyboard shortcuts>panel |
| 05:44.39 | daum | right now its bound to alt +f1.. |
| 05:44.41 | canllaith | daum, what renze said did it :) |
| 05:45.00 | daum | ah good! |
| 05:45.03 | Davey | I don't have "key binding" (KDE 3.3.x) |
| 05:45.06 | daum | i knew you could turn it off i read about it a while ago |
| 05:45.12 | daum | Davey |
| 05:45.14 | daum | go to search |
| 05:45.15 | daum | Type |
| 05:45.15 | Davey | daum: I can only map it to "Win + *" |
| 05:45.23 | daum | oh hm |
| 05:45.31 | Davey | yeah :/ |
| 05:45.41 | canllaith | Davey, one thing you definitely can do |
| 05:45.53 | canllaith | is to go Kcontrol->Regional & Acessiblity->Keyboard Shortcuts |
| 05:45.54 | Davey | the SuSE 9.1 LiveCD had it like I want it... is there a config file I can look for to see how? |
| 05:45.59 | Davey | canllaith: same issue there |
| 05:46.06 | canllaith | and change the little combo box from 'Current Scheme' |
| 05:46.25 | canllaith | To 'Windows Scheme (With Win Key)' and see if that helps |
| 05:46.54 | daum | gregday, aw thats no fun! |
| 05:47.10 | Davey | canllaith: did that, no help :/ |
| 05:47.31 | canllaith | mmm that is a strange one |
| 05:47.55 | Renze | Davey: did you try changing to Windows Scheme and then try to change the menu shortcut again? |
| 05:48.38 | Davey | yes |
| 05:48.48 | Davey | hmm, wait |
| 05:49.51 | gregday | at least i didnt map Run to Win+R |
| 05:50.29 | canllaith | it's a key, on your keyboard, why do you not just make use of it? |
| 05:50.50 | Davey | agreed :) |
| 05:50.59 | gregday | because keyboards arent supposed to have it |
| 05:51.04 | canllaith | evil gremlins will not come and eat you for using a 'win' key |
| 05:51.13 | Davey | gregday: Blame Apple, they added the Apple key first ;) |
| 05:51.14 | gregday | it's not the using of it |
| 05:51.16 | canllaith | oh who cares? |
| 05:51.17 | Davey | I just like having 1 key acccess to the K menu |
| 05:51.17 | gregday | it's the fact that it exists |
| 05:51.24 | gregday | Davey: apple can do it because they make hte whole computer. |
| 05:51.27 | Davey | and? |
| 05:51.29 | gregday | logitech, not microsoft, made my keyboard |
| 05:51.42 | gregday | it's a sign of how far their claws are entrenched into users minds |
| 05:51.42 | canllaith | Yes and they designed it to be used with Microsoft Windows. Your point is ? |
| 05:51.49 | Davey | gregday: and? my keyboard has an apple key on it aswell as the start key |
| 05:52.03 | canllaith | someone call me when the conversation is less juvenile |
| 05:52.07 | Davey | agreed |
| 05:52.17 | Davey | or when you work out how to make the win key open the K menu ;) |
| 05:52.18 | gregday | canllaith: i bet you'd complain if there was a GNOME foot logo on your board |
| 05:52.30 | Davey | gregday: not really, I like the Gnome logo :) |
| 05:52.33 | canllaith | Then you bet foolishly because you would lose such a wager |
| 05:52.42 | Davey | its just another key ;) |
| 05:53.48 | daum | hehe mine sometimes does it..then i'm like hey thats good..then it stops doign it lol |
| 05:55.28 | derekkite | Davey: are you running cvs? what version |
| 05:56.00 | Davey | I'm running, uhm, jas |
| 05:56.10 | Davey | 3.3.0 |
| 05:56.24 | Davey | the SuSE 9.1 LiveCD runs KDE 3.2.x |
| 05:56.29 | Davey | so it *must* be possible |
| 05:56.42 | canllaith | oh it is.. I have just never managed to find the option for it |
| 05:59.18 | Davey | wtf... it depends on the fucking num-lock key! |
| 05:59.28 | daum | lol |
| 05:59.33 | daum | whoa |
| 05:59.33 | daum | haha |
| 05:59.35 | daum | mine works! |
| 05:59.36 | daum | lol |
| 05:59.40 | Davey | if num-lock is off, win opens the K menu, if its on, it doesn't! |
| 05:59.40 | daum | if it urn off the num lock |
| 05:59.47 | Davey | thats *fucked* up |
| 05:59.48 | daum | haha |
| 05:59.54 | daum | <-dying of laugher |
| 06:00.16 | Davey | I *really* need to restart X, brb |
| 06:00.36 | Davey | how do I make KDE load the same session back up when I come back? |
| 06:04.41 | daum | just log out correctly |
| 06:04.59 | *** join/#kde canllaith (~canllaith@202-0-49-91.paradise.net.nz) |
| 06:06.20 | *** join/#kde Davey (~davey@davey.user) |
| 06:06.29 | Davey | ok, back :D |
| 06:07.06 | *** join/#kde Davey (~davey@davey.user) |
| 06:07.22 | Davey | I just joined #kde on EFnet and like "OK, I'm back".... "oops, wrong network ;)" |
| 06:08.02 | canllaith | lol |
| 06:08.12 | canllaith | mmm is crystalsvg ever actually going to be made svg? |
| 06:08.15 | Davey | I can't believe it depends on the num-lock key :/ |
| 06:21.40 | *** join/#kde somekool (~mjobin@S01060004e25009e5.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 06:21.42 | somekool | hello |
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| 06:39.55 | *** join/#kde minahd (~konversat@Toronto-HSE-ppp3716579.sympatico.ca) |
| 06:40.02 | minahd | do you guys happen to know where i can find the documentation for the feature to be able to draw the background on the kde desktop? |
| 06:41.50 | *** join/#kde _chakie (~chakie@tux.adsl.abo.fi) |
| 06:46.57 | *** join/#kde chrisp (~chrisp@adsl-68-72-46-71.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net) |
| 06:51.14 | *** join/#kde Borg^Queen (~Borg^Quee@dialup-4.250.96.50.Dial1.Weehawken1.Level3.net) |
| 06:51.22 | Borg^Queen | Hey I |
| 06:51.27 | Dhraakellian | re |
| 06:51.35 | Borg^Queen | Ooops, I'm trying to compile qtparted |
| 06:51.45 | Borg^Queen | It keeps giving me this error msg |
| 06:51.46 | Borg^Queen | checking for reiserfs_fs_create in -lreiserfs... no |
| 06:51.46 | Borg^Queen | configure: error: *** reiserfsprogs library (libreiserfs) not found |
| 06:51.53 | Borg^Queen | It's installed |
| 06:53.52 | canllaith | what does config.log say? perhaps it is actually checking for a version you do not have? |
| 06:53.53 | Borg^Queen | Anyone else install qtparted? |
| 06:54.00 | Borg^Queen | Hmm ok |
| 06:54.08 | Borg^Queen | one sec |
| 06:56.24 | *** join/#kde bietch (~gen@218.208.243.115) |
| 06:56.30 | bietch | hmm |
| 06:56.31 | bietch | hai all |
| 06:56.42 | canllaith | hi! |
| 06:57.12 | Renze | hi bietch... were you affected by the wave? |
| 06:57.29 | *** join/#kde Borg^Queen_ (~Borg^Quee@dialup-4.250.96.67.Dial1.Weehawken1.Level3.net) |
| 06:57.54 | Borg^Queen_ | It says, and I quote "configure:22887: error: *** reiserfsprogs library (libreiserfs) not found" |
| 06:57.58 | Borg^Queen_ | Very helpful |
| 06:59.13 | bietch | Renze: no no..im at hometown |
| 06:59.17 | Borg^Queen_ | would you like to see the hole config.frog? |
| 06:59.24 | bietch | Renze: its bad sir :( |
| 06:59.44 | canllaith | bietch, selamat pertang... apa khabar? :) |
| 06:59.55 | Renze | bietch: yes, I saw about the tsunamis on the news |
| 07:00.07 | bietch | canllaith: selamat petang..kabar baik..nicole ape khabar ? |
| 07:00.39 | bietch | Renze: most infected are north malaysian |
| 07:00.55 | Borg^Queen_ | infected? |
| 07:01.03 | Borg^Queen_ | computers or people |
| 07:01.27 | Renze | Borg^Queen: now now, english not first language in this case |
| 07:01.51 | Borg^Queen_ | pardon? |
| 07:02.46 | bietch | Borg^Queen: sorry..im really bad in english..so sorry |
| 07:05.01 | *** join/#kde Borg^Queen (~Borg^Quee@dialup-4.250.183.204.Dial1.Weehawken1.Level3.net) |
| 07:05.08 | Borg^Queen | Ok what did I miss |
| 07:05.19 | Borg^Queen | BUUURRRP! |
| 07:05.57 | bietch | bietch Borg^Queen: sorry..im really bad in english..so sorry |
| 07:06.19 | Borg^Queen | No need to be, not a problem. |
| 07:06.54 | bietch | thanks |
| 07:06.55 | Borg^Queen | canllaith: do you want to look at the config.frog? |
| 07:06.58 | Borg^Queen | thank you |
| 07:08.23 | *** join/#kde benklop (~benklop@co-ratlsnk-u1-c4a-100.clspco.adelphia.net) |
| 07:08.26 | benklop | hi |
| 07:08.37 | benklop | i'm having a p[roblem with korganizer |
| 07:08.48 | benklop | it crashes whenever i start it |
| 07:08.56 | benklop | just after korgac starts |
| 07:09.01 | canllaith | bietch, maaf .... saya afk... |
| 07:09.08 | canllaith | khabar baik :) |
| 07:09.21 | Borg^Queen | What language is that |
| 07:09.22 | canllaith | eeep |
| 07:09.25 | canllaith | malaysian |
| 07:09.29 | Borg^Queen | What did you say!!!! |
| 07:09.33 | Borg^Queen | Ah |
| 07:09.53 | canllaith | I said bietch, good day how are you |
| 07:09.57 | *** join/#kde bietch (~gen@grubb.ebs.hw.ac.uk) |
| 07:09.58 | canllaith | she said good day I am fine, how are you? |
| 07:10.06 | benklop | i have used kpilot to sync korganizer, before i ran korganizer for the first time |
| 07:10.07 | canllaith | I said sorry afk... I am good. |
| 07:10.42 | bietch | canllaith: yeah no problem with it comel..i know u are busy always :p |
| 07:10.43 | Borg^Queen | Hmm |
| 07:10.55 | canllaith | ahaks =p |
| 07:10.57 | Borg^Queen | Ah she's back |
| 07:11.26 | benklop | anyone here feel like helpingh me out with any possible solutions? |
| 07:11.37 | Borg^Queen | I have no clue |
| 07:11.44 | Borg^Queen | Open it up in a terminal |
| 07:11.47 | benklop | i have tried deleting the default calenar, and all the config files |
| 07:11.49 | canllaith | sorry I am afraid I have not got a palm |
| 07:11.49 | Borg^Queen | See what it says |
| 07:12.15 | benklop | well, even without the palm thing, i can no longer get korganizer to start |
| 07:12.22 | benklop | and im not sure the two are related |
| 07:12.48 | benklop | it just says "hmm probably crashed" or somthing similar |
| 07:13.30 | canllaith | oh bietch I have found a good page that tells me the differences between bahasa indonesia and bahasa malaysia! |
| 07:13.31 | benklop | bash-2.05b$ korganizer |
| 07:13.32 | benklop | ERROR: Communication problem with korganizer, it probably crashed. |
| 07:13.32 | benklop | bash-2.05b$ KCrash: Application 'korganizer' crashing... |
| 07:13.53 | bietch | canllaith: a bits dear... |
| 07:14.01 | canllaith | bietch, ya some differences |
| 07:14.17 | bietch | canllaith: i understand indonesian..but i cant understand pure languages indonesian.. :/ |
| 07:14.30 | canllaith | like ... kedai and toko... hospital and rumah sakit... |
| 07:14.52 | canllaith | bietch, that is ok cause I cannot understand much indonesian or malay, so you are doing better than me ;) |
| 07:14.55 | bietch | canllaith: haha..u are good!...damn good |
| 07:15.19 | bietch | canllaith: u also better in english than me ;) |
| 07:15.20 | canllaith | ahaks ... terima kasih |
| 07:15.32 | bietch | hardworking girl |
| 07:15.43 | Borg^Queen | benklop: do a trace |
| 07:16.08 | Borg^Queen | when did it start crashing |
| 07:16.20 | bietch | does anyone know how to bind domain name in sunos server ? |
| 07:16.26 | benklop | this is the first time i ever tried to use it under this user |
| 07:16.31 | benklop | it works under another user |
| 07:16.50 | Borg^Queen | Ah, ok delete the rc file |
| 07:17.35 | benklop | Borg^Queen: i already tried that, and unless there is a hidden one, it doesnt seem to make a difference |
| 07:18.15 | Borg^Queen | do a double wild card search for it (* korgan*) |
| 07:27.20 | Borg^Queen | ? |
| 07:27.46 | benklop | didnt find anything too useful |
| 07:27.50 | benklop | mostly pngs |
| 07:28.12 | Borg^Queen | you looked in the user directory right? |
| 07:28.18 | benklop | yeah |
| 07:28.38 | Borg^Queen | odd hold on |
| 07:29.01 | benklop | umm... the backtrace mentions libkorg_holidays.so |
| 07:29.27 | Borg^Queen | Do you have this file ... korganizerrc |
| 07:30.15 | Borg^Queen | also look in /.kde/share/apps/korganizer |
| 07:30.41 | benklop | pretty sure i del;eted both that file and that direectory in attempts to make this work |
| 07:31.55 | benklop | first few lines of the backtrace seem to mention holidays |
| 07:32.23 | Borg^Queen | Did you create a file by that name? |
| 07:32.29 | benklop | this is a kde compiled by me running on an amd64... no idea why that should matter if it will run for other yusers tho |
| 07:32.38 | benklop | no.. |
| 07:32.40 | benklop | #4 0x0000002a9bcdcb8b in Holidays::getHoliday(QDate const&) () |
| 07:32.42 | benklop | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:32.42 | benklop | #5 0x0000002a9bcdca69 in Holidays::shortText(QDate const&) () |
| 07:32.42 | benklop | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:32.43 | benklop | #6 0x0000002a958029fe in KOCore::holiday(QDate const&) () |
| 07:32.44 | benklop | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:33.12 | Borg^Queen | I have no idea then |
| 07:33.56 | benklop | where might i inquiree farther ? any ideas? |
| 07:34.05 | benklop | thanks for the help thus far btw |
| 07:34.18 | Renze | try #kdepim, perhaps? |
| 07:34.51 | benklop | doesnt ewxist |
| 07:35.09 | Borg^Queen | Do have kontact installed?> |
| 07:35.16 | benklop | yeah |
| 07:35.30 | Borg^Queen | Try opening it via that |
| 07:35.37 | benklop | it works ok until i try to use the korganizer kpart in it |
| 07:35.47 | Borg^Queen | And then it? |
| 07:36.02 | benklop | crashes in the same fasion korganizer does |
| 07:36.12 | Borg^Queen | Hmm and only with this user? |
| 07:36.24 | benklop | actually it does it with root too |
| 07:36.39 | Borg^Queen | Ah, then it's completely borked. |
| 07:37.00 | benklop | the only thing they really have in common that i can thionk of is that i once ran kpilot as root |
| 07:37.17 | benklop | but it works dandy in another user i made |
| 07:38.00 | Borg^Queen | That's odd |
| 07:38.56 | benklop | yes, i thought so too |
| 07:39.20 | Borg^Queen | Is the user critical? |
| 07:39.59 | benklop | its the only one i normally use |
| 07:40.28 | Borg^Queen | Rats. You didn't make a backup of the user did you? |
| 07:40.38 | benklop | i'm cosidering wiping my .kde dir |
| 07:40.49 | benklop | not that i can remember |
| 07:42.04 | Borg^Queen | Try this. As roor, rename that directory. |
| 07:42.11 | Borg^Queen | create a blank user dir for that user |
| 07:42.20 | Borg^Queen | Let nix fill in the blanks. |
| 07:42.39 | Borg^Queen | Then slowly restore the user until you repeat the error |
| 07:43.25 | benklop | sdounds time consuming... |
| 07:43.32 | benklop | nbut i cant think of a better solution |
| 07:44.14 | Borg^Queen | It is |
| 07:44.39 | benklop | jas |
| 07:45.26 | benklop | im loggin out and in to make sure configs arent cached |
| 07:45.34 | benklop | or somthiong like that |
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| 07:49.57 | Borg^Queen | benklop: have you emptied out the /tmp dir? |
| 07:50.07 | Borg^Queen | empty it out and restart x |
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| 07:50.26 | Borg^Queen | you might have to reboot if x doesn't start though |
| 07:50.53 | benklop | well, deleting my .kde dir seemed to do the tric |
| 07:51.05 | benklop | i backed it up |
| 07:51.25 | benklop | i wonder what in there was the problem |
| 07:51.45 | Borg^Queen | restore it one dir at a time, see what happens |
| 07:51.56 | Borg^Queen | odds are it's in the .kde dir |
| 07:52.00 | Borg^Queen | the problem that is |
| 07:53.38 | benklop | i agree |
| 07:54.52 | benklop | kde apps usually save their config when the exit right? |
| 07:56.28 | Borg^Queen | I think so |
| 07:57.06 | Borg^Queen | ha, it's late. I need to go. |
| 07:57.13 | Borg^Queen | Hope you find what's wrong |
| 07:57.37 | Borg^Queen | You're welcome |
| 07:57.43 | Borg^Queen | Good day or night all |
| 07:57.49 | Renze | nite borgy |
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| 08:03.29 | *** join/#kde benklop (~benklop@co-ratlsnk-u1-c4a-100.clspco.adelphia.net) |
| 08:03.34 | benklop | hi |
| 08:03.49 | benklop | seems to work now, |
| 08:04.02 | benklop | oh well, mYbe its time to start fresh |
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| 08:18.43 | Lazydog | apt: you scared him off |
| 08:18.58 | Renze | you're talking to a bot, dude |
| 08:19.28 | Lazydog | Renze: tfti |
| 08:19.41 | Renze | tfti? |
| 08:19.47 | Lazydog | thnx for the info |
| 08:20.16 | Lazydog | how many more bots are around on this channel? |
| 08:20.25 | Renze | omfg wtf yaa! |
| 08:20.36 | Renze | enough :) |
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| 08:23.37 | Renze | wb borgy |
| 08:23.40 | Borg^Queen | Hey people. |
| 08:23.44 | Borg^Queen | Thank Renze |
| 08:23.58 | Renze | can't regenerate? |
| 08:24.00 | Borg^Queen | I'm still trying to get a vob to work for dvdstyler. |
| 08:24.23 | Borg^Queen | It says the file is out of sync. the audio etc. |
| 08:24.39 | Renze | sorry, can't help you... don't have a dvd writer :) |
| 08:24.47 | Borg^Queen | I'm trying to find an app that will convert it to a dvd file |
| 08:24.53 | Borg^Queen | Blast you Renze |
| 08:24.57 | Renze | a vob IS a dvd file |
| 08:25.22 | Renze | have a look at any of your prerecorded dvds... there's a bunch of vobs in a video_ts directory |
| 08:25.22 | Borg^Queen | I know but it's out of sync so I need to redo it |
| 08:25.56 | Borg^Queen | I need an app that can split it and reintergrate it |
| 08:26.21 | Borg^Queen | transcode is supposed to do that but I haven't find a command that does |
| 08:26.22 | Renze | no idea, sorry... I only encode dvds to divx :) |
| 08:26.29 | Borg^Queen | Aye |
| 08:28.14 | Renze | transcode -a ach[,vch] - extract audio[,video] track for encoding ? |
| 08:28.50 | Renze | just going through the manpage |
| 08:29.12 | Borg^Queen | tanks |
| 08:29.24 | Renze | -m file |
| 08:29.24 | Renze | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:31.19 | Borg^Queen | The command doesn't work |
| 08:31.49 | Renze | what version of transcode? mine is 0.6.11 |
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| 08:32.22 | Borg^Queen | same |
| 08:32.27 | Borg^Queen | blasted thing |
| 08:32.39 | Renze | I've never used transcode directly... only via k3b |
| 08:32.53 | Borg^Queen | k3b? |
| 08:33.01 | Borg^Queen | for what? |
| 08:33.13 | Renze | for ripping/encoding dvd |
| 08:33.21 | Borg^Queen | I use dvdrip |
| 08:33.31 | Borg^Queen | I should try k3b for that |
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| 08:47.35 | Borg^Queen | I think I fixed it |
| 08:52.02 | Borg^Queen | I'm determined. |
| 08:53.16 | Borg^Queen | good day or night to all. |
| 08:53.21 | Borg^Queen | Renze: thanks |
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| 09:24.53 | Flendor | Hallo |
| 09:25.04 | Renze | hola Flendor |
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| 09:30.11 | maitscha | hi, i'm searching the document which describes, how the menu is build in kde and gnome. but can't remember what group wrote this papers... |
| 09:32.21 | canllaith | freedesktop.org ? |
| 09:33.01 | maitscha | yes! |
| 09:33.57 | canllaith | :) |
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| 09:34.37 | maitscha | but the links for the menu-specifications are broken since 4 weeks :(( |
| 09:34.48 | Flendor | Hey Renze, how goes? |
| 09:34.55 | maitscha | does somebody have the menu-specs? |
| 09:35.57 | maitscha | does somebody have the links at http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Standards_2fmenu_2dspec ??? |
| 09:36.17 | maitscha | ...perhaps my webbrowser is broken |
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| 09:39.38 | maitscha | how should I develop "good" progs if I can't read the specs? |
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| 09:51.02 | sredna | Hello :) |
| 09:51.15 | Renze | hola anders :) |
| 09:51.48 | sredna | I installed dbus |
| 09:52.00 | sredna | Do I need to start some daemon or something? |
| 09:52.22 | canllaith | hi sredna ! how was your christmass |
| 09:52.45 | sredna | Hi canllaith :) christmas was/isfine :) |
| 09:52.51 | sredna | How was yours? |
| 09:52.52 | canllaith | excellent |
| 09:53.03 | canllaith | it was very good ty |
| 09:53.11 | sredna | Great :) |
| 09:53.15 | canllaith | my relatives are visiting from germany and we have been partying and having fun |
| 09:53.48 | sredna | Yea, I'm going to see all my (4) brothers and siters + all their kids later today |
| 09:55.42 | sredna | Does anyone in here know how to correctly start dbus? |
| 09:56.09 | sredna | It looks like 'dbus-launch' should be run bu init |
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| 10:13.34 | bietch | fiuh~ |
| 10:14.10 | Renze | hi bietch |
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| 10:14.17 | bietch | yeah Renze |
| 10:14.23 | bietch | no problem with enabling swap space |
| 10:14.39 | Renze | so it's working now? |
| 10:14.53 | bietch | but..what is sendmail ? sm-client ? whats that ? |
| 10:15.16 | Renze | sendmail is a mail transfer program |
| 10:15.35 | bietch | can i disable it ? |
| 10:15.36 | Renze | for mailservers and for local mail |
| 10:16.10 | Renze | it depends on what parts of FC3 need to have sendmail running |
| 10:16.21 | bietch | hmm... |
| 10:16.22 | bietch | ok ok |
| 10:16.30 | bietch | try to fixed it first comel |
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| 10:32.09 | davux | Any jabber-aware people here ? |
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| 10:52.04 | sredna | davux: Anderslund@jabber.dk |
| 10:52.50 | davux | sredna: Sorry ? |
| 10:53.02 | sredna | davux: Well, my jabber id |
| 10:53.09 | davux | sredna: Ah, ok. |
| 10:53.45 | davux | sredna: I want to chat with jabber-aware kde developpers, especially concerning KNotes. |
| 10:53.59 | davux | Sorry for not saying this at first :D |
| 10:54.32 | sredna | davux: Maybe #kopete would be a smarter place to try :) |
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| 10:54.50 | davux | hm |
| 10:55.07 | davux | The point is, it's not about instant messaging... |
| 10:55.17 | sredna | davux: Allthough I don't think anyone is doing kopete as well as knotes.. |
| 10:55.31 | davux | I'd like to chat about a way to share or save notes using Jabber. |
| 10:56.05 | sredna | davux: The kdepim mailinglist is the place then I guess |
| 10:56.39 | davux | sredna: Isn't there a somewhat more informal place to discuss ? |
| 10:56.55 | davux | Sending a mail to a mailing list is always soooo serious ;) |
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| 11:16.51 | *** join/#kde jake1981 (~jake1981@xdsl-179-221.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 11:17.09 | jake1981 | hello. I have problems setting up xdmcp with kdm.. |
| 11:17.20 | jake1981 | anyone able to help me? I run slackware 10. |
| 11:17.41 | jake1981 | I have enabled it in kdmrc but port 177 doesn't open. |
| 11:23.41 | gnome | jake1981: have you set Xaccess appropriately? |
| 11:23.49 | jake1981 | I should have. |
| 11:23.51 | jake1981 | I enabled * |
| 11:24.00 | jake1981 | so it should allow from all hosts. |
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| 11:25.49 | gnome | jake1981: restarted kdm yet? |
| 11:25.57 | jake1981 | plenty of times. |
| 11:27.17 | gnome | jake1981: hm.. those should be enough for startx -- -query <xdmhost> |
| 11:27.38 | gnome | jake1981: btw, how do you know port 177 is not open? |
| 11:27.52 | jake1981 | nmap 127.0.0.1 and telnet 127.0.0.1 177 |
| 11:28.42 | gnome | jake1981: it udp/177, and telnet is tcp. not sure about imap. try: netstat -u -l -n |grep 177 |
| 11:29.17 | gnome | s/imap/nmap |
| 11:29.52 | jake1981 | udp 0 0 ::::177 ::::* |
| 11:29.58 | jake1981 | it's open? |
| 11:30.38 | gnome | jake1981: i just read nmap man page, and it does not scan for udp ports unless you tell it so |
| 11:30.51 | gnome | jake1981: so, yes, it's open |
| 11:31.04 | jake1981 | hmm.. little utility in ltsp says it isn't :/ |
| 11:31.27 | gnome | jake1981: nmap -sU localhost |
| 11:31.32 | gnome | for scanning udp ports |
| 11:32.01 | jake1981 | thanks :) |
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| 12:02.42 | maitscha | hi, does somebody know how to deactivate the kde-panel? |
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| 12:05.46 | TMM | maitscha: what do you want disabled exactly? |
| 12:07.43 | maitscha | TMM: the whole kde panel, which includes startmenu, prog-shortcuts,... |
| 12:08.20 | maitscha | because i am now using ksmoothdock. |
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| 12:09.42 | maitscha | TMM: i mean the control panel. |
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| 12:11.32 | maitscha | ok. i made it with kill [processid of kicker] |
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| 12:19.23 | canllaith | TMM, ullo |
| 12:19.59 | bietch | canllaith busuk :p |
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| 12:23.41 | TMM | hey canllaith |
| 12:24.23 | canllaith | bietch, halo :) |
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| 12:26.33 | TMM | aah... the women tea party is complete I see? ;) |
| 12:26.36 | canllaith | bietch, I am practicing ;) |
| 12:26.42 | canllaith | umur berapa anda? |
| 12:26.44 | canllaith | :D |
| 12:26.57 | TMM | what language is that? |
| 12:27.06 | canllaith | bahasa malaysia.. almost |
| 12:27.46 | TMM | looks, interesting :) |
| 12:29.09 | canllaith | bietch, bagaimana terjemahan 'busuk' dalam bahasa inggris ? |
| 12:29.36 | canllaith | saya kurang mengerti :( |
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| 12:49.44 | bietch | ah canllaith |
| 12:49.45 | bietch | sorry |
| 12:50.25 | bietch | canllaith umur berapa anda? <--- "umur anda berapa?" not "umur berapa anda?" |
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| 12:55.24 | canllaith | bietch, maaf. umur anda berapa ? |
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| 12:56.08 | bietch | canllaith: 20 tahun |
| 12:56.15 | bietch | canllaith: umur anda berapa ? |
| 12:56.25 | canllaith | ah. Saya 22 tahun |
| 12:56.48 | canllaith | :P just reading old books from school |
| 12:56.54 | bietch | ahaks |
| 12:56.59 | bietch | canllaith: muda dan menawan :p |
| 12:57.38 | canllaith | bietch adik ;) |
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| 13:00.51 | bietch | canllaith: kakak :p |
| 13:00.55 | bietch | kakak nicole |
| 13:00.56 | bietch | :p |
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| 13:10.11 | Daniel_ | hey |
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| 13:25.17 | Rorqual_Celine | need for speed time @peluche |
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| 13:47.56 | artemio | hey ppl |
| 13:48.31 | artemio | i have a question about konqueror (web browser): how to make it not ask if i want to upload files via html form? |
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| 13:54.36 | Daniel_ | o_O |
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| 14:21.02 | l1nux | hello |
| 14:27.45 | *** join/#kde Blissex (~Home@gigaflop.demon.co.uk) |
| 14:28.20 | canllaith | hello l1nux |
| 14:30.00 | grepper | hoe |
| 14:30.17 | canllaith | don't you garden-implement _me_ young man! |
| 14:30.21 | canllaith | how you goin? :P |
| 14:30.36 | grepper | wish it was gardening weather |
| 14:30.48 | grepper | and don't you young_man me |
| 14:30.56 | canllaith | ;) |
| 14:31.54 | canllaith | so whatcha up to ? |
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| 14:33.08 | l1nux | is possible make html background desktop ? |
| 14:33.18 | l1nux | like m$ windos |
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| 14:34.21 | TMM | l1nux: err... WHY? |
| 14:34.31 | TMM | l1nux: it is a horrible, horrible feature |
| 14:34.55 | l1nux | ohh.. |
| 14:35.11 | TMM | well, I think it is :) |
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| 14:37.17 | canllaith | l1nux, Right click -> Configure Desktop -> Background -> Advanced Options |
| 14:37.37 | canllaith | Background Program - tick 'Use the following program for drawing the desktop' and select kdewebdesktop |
| 14:39.08 | l1nux | I want to have some kind of menu and submenus embedded on desktop to lauch apps (only text no icons), javascipt menu like |
| 14:40.03 | Blissex | canllaith: you are cruel :-) |
| 14:41.36 | l1nux | look here http://l1nux.free.fr/files/kde.avi |
| 14:42.03 | l1nux | kde desktop in profesional... |
| 14:42.10 | l1nux | ;) |
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| 14:45.15 | TMM | l1nux: amazing movie! |
| 14:45.32 | canllaith | Blissex, how am I so cruel? =p |
| 14:45.53 | TMM | canllaith: by telling the poor guy how to enable web desktop? :) |
| 14:45.57 | canllaith | heh must be |
| 14:46.01 | l1nux | TMM yeah ;) |
| 14:46.02 | Blissex | canllaith: you told him how to satisfy his masochistic urges indeed |
| 14:46.03 | TMM | canllaith: that's VERY cruel |
| 14:46.29 | canllaith | ah well colour me sadistic |
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| 14:46.46 | l1nux | canllaith this option only draws a background image from an html page, like a screenshot, no interactivity |
| 14:46.54 | TMM | canllaith: WE don't have to do that, you are managing that perfectly on your own ;) |
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| 14:47.24 | TMM | l1nux: maybe superkaramba is something for you? it'll add all kinds of weirdness to a desktop |
| 14:47.58 | l1nux | TMM ok :) |
| 14:48.11 | canllaith | hahaha |
| 14:48.25 | canllaith | http://www.hoult.org/~canllaith/omg.png |
| 14:48.25 | Blissex | now, now for the complaint of the day, not new I guess: what about KDE memory usage? I have had to switch for the past few days from a 512MB to 256MB system and I have started noiticing just how much memory some KDE stuff takes.. |
| 14:48.29 | canllaith | how is that for the word colour scheme ever |
| 14:48.43 | canllaith | Blissex, mmm not sure what you are talking about there |
| 14:48.59 | canllaith | I use KDE on a 192MB, a 256MB and a 1024MB system.. and it runs great on them all |
| 14:50.24 | Blissex | I am talking about 'kxkb' taking 11MB of resident memory... |
| 14:50.25 | TMM | nope, me neither |
| 14:50.59 | canllaith | dum dum dum.... what is it using here |
| 14:51.23 | TMM | 11MB here too |
| 14:51.28 | canllaith | it's using 14mb here :o |
| 14:51.34 | canllaith | but I am not swapping out so I do not care. |
| 14:51.36 | TMM | but that doesn't take shared mem in account |
| 14:51.51 | TMM | it might use 11MB, but it might share 9MB with other apps |
| 14:51.55 | TMM | or even more :) |
| 14:51.56 | canllaith | Konqueror, Kate, Cervisia, Konsole Kmail Kopete plus lots of little systray crap |
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| 14:52.12 | canllaith | Kompare too |
| 14:52.21 | canllaith | and I am not swapping out on 256MB ram. Who could ask for more? |
| 14:52.36 | TMM | it saying that it's using 11MB doesn't mean that it's actually using up 11MB alone :) basically |
| 14:52.47 | TMM | we have QT and kdelibs adding to that too |
| 14:53.18 | TMM | if every program would pull QT and kdelibs into mem... then it'be a problem, because then they would REALLY start using that amount of mem :) |
| 14:53.21 | canllaith | although really perhaps I am running more crap than I need =p |
| 14:53.25 | TMM | Blissex: basically, don't worry about it |
| 14:53.29 | Blissex | TMM: yes, but that is the resident bit... |
| 14:53.41 | Blissex | TMM: I worry because it does swap a lot... :-) |
| 14:53.55 | canllaith | Blissex, what are you running? I don't swap at all on this machine with little ram |
| 14:54.02 | *** join/#kde valinux (1000@adsl-190-25-192-81.adsl.iam.net.ma) |
| 14:54.11 | TMM | I've got to go now, sorry |
| 14:54.17 | valinux | hi all |
| 14:54.24 | TMM | canllaith: maybe you should let him enable a web desktop too? ;) |
| 14:54.31 | canllaith | heh why not ;) That will fix it |
| 14:54.38 | Blissex | TMM: also, Konqueror takes 24MB of resident and 90MB of virtual... And each new instance almost adds that much... |
| 14:54.40 | valinux | web desktop?? in kde?? |
| 14:54.51 | valinux | what's that? |
| 14:54.58 | canllaith | Blissex, well you can enable konqueror to use the same process to save memory |
| 14:56.04 | Blissex | canllaith: yes, I usually actually do something like CTRl-n to create new windows instead... |
| 14:56.16 | Blissex | valinux: dont ask, dont tell, OK :-) |
| 14:56.54 | canllaith | Blissex you can enable single instance konqueror in Kcontrol -> KDE Components -> Performance.... |
| 14:56.56 | Blissex | I am going to paste into #flood the top 10 or so processes by memory residency on my system right now... |
| 14:57.05 | valinux | ok don't ask anything or don't ask about this?? |
| 14:57.10 | canllaith | but ... well I have not experienced the same things you are, so I cannot help you there. |
| 14:57.17 | valinux | oups I asked somethin |
| 14:57.21 | canllaith | Slackware + KDE works beautiful even on 128mb ram machine. |
| 14:57.35 | Blissex | valinux: jnust dont ask about your little perverted desires for a web desktop :-) |
| 14:57.42 | canllaith | (ok ok, so 128mb ram is only good for kopete and websurfing and maybe email if you are lucky... but still.) |
| 14:57.53 | Blissex | valinux: and we wont tell your gf/mom/coworkers :-) |
| 14:58.14 | valinux | ?? what da hell is that? |
| 14:58.21 | grepper | canllaith, yeah, I notice 256 is the sweet spot - biggest jump in improvement. Everything else is gravy :) |
| 14:58.40 | canllaith | grepper, definitely :) I actually went out and got another 128MB stick especially for KDE 3.3.0 |
| 14:59.13 | valinux | well is there any superkaramba wysywyg editor??? |
| 14:59.15 | canllaith | Is the only DE that lets my 500MHz laptop run well enough to use for everyday work. Love my KDE and it's performance ;) |
| 14:59.34 | grepper | canllaith, guess there is a reason vendors are cheapskates and usually stop at 256 for budget machines |
| 14:59.53 | canllaith | grepper, we sell with minimum 512mb in machines atm I think |
| 15:00.01 | grepper | nice |
| 15:00.08 | canllaith | oh, except the super budget home celeron machine just for email and websurfing |
| 15:00.18 | grepper | I see so many 2.8+ gig machines with only 256 megs |
| 15:00.23 | canllaith | that one is 256 |
| 15:00.29 | canllaith | ah yeah it's so silly why cripple the machine? |
| 15:00.31 | grepper | seems a shame to have such a powerful machine with so little ram |
| 15:00.40 | Blissex | canllaith: KDE apps take a bit too much memory -- but hey, all Linux apps are really really crap in this respect... Have you ever noticed how much memory does 'ls' take? |
| 15:00.54 | canllaith | Blissex, to be blunt I think you're talking crap |
| 15:00.56 | canllaith | :) |
| 15:01.24 | grepper | Blissex, try not using it in your pr0n directory, it will take a little less :P |
| 15:01.31 | canllaith | grepper, usually the price difference between 2.4GHz and 2.6GHz is more than the price difference between 256MB and 512MB ram - and the extra ram would show a bigger improvement |
| 15:01.44 | grepper | yes ! |
| 15:02.17 | grepper | I am so happy I got this va=503+ to take mixed ram |
| 15:02.21 | canllaith | :) |
| 15:02.28 | grepper | my nephew will be much happier with 256 |
| 15:02.36 | canllaith | oh definitely, as you say that is the KDE sweet spot |
| 15:02.38 | grepper | some silly ram speed setting in the bios |
| 15:03.11 | Blissex | canllaith: I was used to running UNIV V7 on a 384KB machine, with 3-4 users at a time. The kernel took less than 64KB. |
| 15:03.41 | canllaith | once apon a time I ran solaris on machines somewhat like that. And? |
| 15:03.52 | canllaith | Then over a decade past and technology moved on. |
| 15:04.19 | vloris | when will g++ be a little more optimized? isn't that the biggest problem with using much memory and taking long to compile right now? |
| 15:04.22 | Blissex | canllaith: a large part of the problem is that x86 pages are very big, and this raises memory occupancy terribly, especially if one writes programs badly |
| 15:04.31 | Blissex | canllaith: but still... |
| 15:04.42 | canllaith | Blissex, if you think it is done so badly then don't use it |
| 15:04.45 | grepper | I have a strange problem with disk reads - I get 16 MB/s before I enter KDE, then it drops to 5 MB/s |
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| 15:04.55 | grepper | this is in my other install, ubuntu is working fine |
| 15:05.15 | grepper | anyone have any ideas ? I don't see anything with top/atop that could be causing it |
| 15:05.26 | canllaith | interesting .. could it be related to dma? |
| 15:05.39 | grepper | well, the dma settings don't change on entering kde |
| 15:05.46 | grepper | its really weird |
| 15:05.57 | canllaith | how is the performance otherwise? |
| 15:06.06 | canllaith | does it feel like there is a process constantly hitting the hdd ? |
| 15:06.07 | grepper | I asked the debian hdparm maintainer about it and he didn't have any ideas :( |
| 15:06.11 | grepper | nope |
| 15:06.14 | canllaith | weird |
| 15:06.15 | grepper | no grinding |
| 15:06.30 | grepper | and you really do hear it when it is active |
| 15:06.45 | grepper | especially since the tower is on my desktop 6 inches away |
| 15:06.49 | canllaith | he |
| 15:06.51 | canllaith | heh * |
| 15:07.28 | grepper | so I log out of kde and go back to console, and hdparm shows 16 MB/s again |
| 15:07.34 | Blissex | grepper: it can be some daemon/program keeps reading from the disk |
| 15:07.52 | Blissex | grepper: this means that 'hdparm' does not do sequential reads, but has to jump a bit. |
| 15:08.08 | grepper | Blissex, hmm, I don't notice anything with top/atop |
| 15:08.22 | Blissex | grepper: even a couple of blocks read can cut the reported read a lot. |
| 15:08.30 | grepper | and that is a huge jump 16 ->5 MB/s |
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| 15:09.16 | grepper | I think I"ll go have another look at it |
| 15:09.28 | grepper | bbl |
| 15:10.12 | Blissex | canllaith: «it is done so badly then don't use it |
| 15:10.12 | Blissex | [15:03:10] <grepper> I have a strange problem with disk reads - I get 16 MB/s befo |
| 15:10.29 | Blissex | oops sorry |
| 15:10.55 | Blissex | canllaith: «it is done so badly then don't use it» well, I think the whole of Linux is pretty bad, but it is question of lesser evil |
| 15:11.11 | canllaith | lol well seriously go and troll elsewhere |
| 15:11.35 | canllaith | it is not constructive to just complain about how linux is pretty bad, so we do not particularly want to hear it |
| 15:11.42 | Blissex | canllaith: it pains me that so many Linux/free sofcvtware developers seem to have such a ``fuck you, I am genius'' attitude |
| 15:11.53 | canllaith | if that is what you would like to think |
| 15:13.30 | Blissex | this is for example the story on 'ls': |
| 15:13.32 | Blissex | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:13.32 | Blissex | 16327 pts/2 T 0:00 0 71 3896 896 0.3 /bin/ls / |
| 15:13.52 | canllaith | Blissex, you perhaps are not hearing me. I don't care. You're talking rubbish and I am not interested. |
| 15:15.35 | Blissex | that is not a universal attitude: for example the KDE project has several people who are trying to fix all this, doing little known but humble work like speeding up the dynamic linker, building ``condensed'' libraries that occupy less memory. It would help if there was a general culture of being careful though... |
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| 15:19.22 | *** join/#kde grepper (~ben@HSE-Ottawa-ppp161643.sympatico.ca) |
| 15:19.50 | grepper | DSK | hda | busy 0% | read 0 | write 6 | avio 0 ms |
| 15:20.04 | grepper | Timing buffered disk reads: 18 MB in 3.09 seconds = 5.82 MB/sec |
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| 15:23.15 | r00tsh3ll | is there a good image viewer for kde? something like gthumb.. |
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| 15:23.55 | canllaith | kuickshow kview (kvew is a bit more like gthumb I think) |
| 15:24.12 | r00tsh3ll | canllaith, thank u |
| 15:24.13 | Theory | or gwenview |
| 15:25.04 | r00tsh3ll | Theory, thank u i'll search for it |
| 15:26.34 | grepper | hmm, I wonder if these hdparm numbers are just bogus for some reason |
| 15:28.02 | grepper | openoffice still starts in ~35 secs so performance doesn't seem affected :P |
| 15:40.08 | Blissex | r00tsh3ll: lots and lots of them. I like 'gwenview' for example |
| 15:40.41 | Blissex | grepper: it is just some app in the background doing periodic reads from another part of the disk... |
| 15:43.05 | Blissex | grepper: if you enable IO tracing via '/proc/sys/vm/block_dump' you can see exactly what happens. |
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| 15:49.15 | AciD | hi |
| 15:49.56 | AciD | do you know why some days i can use drag n' drop in kmail, and some others i can't ? |
| 15:50.06 | AciD | is there any known issues on that ? |
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| 16:02.22 | mmpf | hi@all |
| 16:02.39 | mmpf | i have a problem with the font-size |
| 16:02.54 | mmpf | how can i set the font-size for non-kde-progs? |
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| 16:03.16 | Blissex | mmpf: thats actually rather complicated. |
| 16:03.34 | Blissex | mmpf: do you really mean the font size (in points) or the pixel size? |
| 16:04.31 | Blissex | mmpf: also, most old style X apps use various X resources ('app-defaults') to set the default font, but many newer ones just use random init file |
| 16:04.37 | mmpf | i've installed firefox on my suse9.2 and it has a huge font-size |
| 16:05.08 | *** join/#kde Flendor (~onur@dsl81-214-789.adsl.ttnet.net.tr) |
| 16:05.09 | Blissex | mmpf: so usually you need to set both the various 'font' X resources and configure separately each app that does not use that. |
| 16:05.10 | Flendor | Hello. |
| 16:05.28 | Blissex | mmpf: for Firefox there is a preferences panel that allows you to set the web page default font size. |
| 16:05.40 | mmpf | hmm ok. thought there would be the possibility to set it system-wide |
| 16:05.47 | Blissex | mmpf: for the Firefox GUI (menus etc.) font size you need to se an X resource. |
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| 16:06.18 | mmpf | and where can i set these X resource? |
| 16:06.18 | Blissex | mmpf: X resources are sort-of system wide, if you want. |
| 16:06.38 | Blissex | mmpf: using the 'xrdb' program, and/or in various directories called 'app-defaults'. |
| 16:06.55 | mmpf | ok i'll try this |
| 16:07.04 | Blissex | mmpf: it is not something that is easy to describe on IRC. You need to really read about it. |
| 16:07.12 | Blissex | mmpf: starting with 'man xrdb'. |
| 16:07.38 | mmpf | ok and thx |
| 16:08.21 | Blissex | mmpf: X resources are pretty important things -- I tend to overdo things a bit, but my '~/.Xresources' file contains several hundred lines of definitions. |
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| 16:13.07 | Blissex | mmpf: example of some of my font X resources, just in case: |
| 16:13.15 | Blissex | *.boldfont: -adobe-courier-bold-r-*-*-*-100-*-*-*-*-iso8859-* |
| 16:13.15 | Blissex | *.font: -adobe-courier-medium-r-*-*-*-100-*-*-*-*-iso8859-* |
| 16:13.15 | Blissex | *.fontList: -adobe-courier-medium-r-*-*-*-100-*-*-*-*-iso8859-* |
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| 16:19.29 | maitscha | hi, i'm searching a shell which is integrated into my desktop, like the active desktop from micro$oft. |
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| 16:23.23 | grepper | Blissex: if it was just some periodic reads I would expect some varience in hdparm results |
| 16:24.36 | Blissex | grepper: all it takes is one read... BTW it happens to me too, but almost only under 2.6, not 2.4 (I think different elevator strategies) |
| 16:26.19 | grepper | hm, now I am down to 3.6 MB/s |
| 16:27.05 | grepper | oops, lots of bash(2529): dirtied inode 66887 (bin) on hda12 |
| 16:27.19 | grepper | maybe I need to fsck, or the disk is dying |
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| 16:30.22 | grepper | never noticed this before, and I"ve used 2.6 for quite a while. Just that hdparm values are reported differently in 2.6 and that setting readahead to the disk's cache makes them read more like 2.4's |
| 16:30.29 | grepper | bbiab |
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| 16:34.41 | supos | Any k3b buffs in here? Audio cd copying usually works just fine for me, but with one of my cds it just says "the source disk is empty" and aborts the process. The source disk is not empty, and as far as I can tell it's not "copy protected" either :( |
| 16:37.02 | Blissex | grepper: where do you get " bash(2529): dirtied inode 66887 " from? |
| 16:37.27 | Blissex | supos: some readers dont like some disk types |
| 16:37.41 | Blissex | supos: also, try ejecting and reinserting... |
| 16:37.51 | Blissex | supos: it can just be some dodgy drive |
| 16:40.01 | TMM | supos: maybe try to rip it manually with cdda? |
| 16:40.02 | supos | Blissex: Sounds strange though, as it has had no problems with any other disks. On a side note, both the drive and the disk are brand new, so it's not a matter of a dirty/scrached disk or a worn out drive... |
| 16:40.24 | TMM | cdda2wav even |
| 16:41.10 | Blissex | supos: lets say that CD-R or CD reading is a dodgy process that works only by miracle :-) |
| 16:41.31 | Blissex | supos: some CDs read well only in some drives... |
| 16:42.11 | Blissex | supos: so try to read the CD in another drive. Usually CD-R[W] drives are more flexible than CD-ROM ones. |
| 16:42.20 | supos | TMM: good idea, if that works I guess I can rule out bad disk/drive combination. But I would still like to be able to do it in k3b as this is my parents computer, and it should be just easy |
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| 16:42.37 | supos | Blissex: Will do that |
| 16:43.12 | nyetzsche | is it possible to open a "locked" folder in konqueror somehow? (presumably after giving a root password somewhere, etc.) |
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| 16:46.38 | Blissex | nyetzsche: depends on what you mean by ``locked''. |
| 16:46.44 | r00tsh3ll | nyetzsche, u can open konqueror as root.. or use kdesu |
| 16:46.52 | Blissex | nyetzsche: anyhow you can run-as as r00tsh3ll says. |
| 16:47.34 | supos | Blissex: Ripping it manually to wav works fine, so I guess the drive can read it just fine :( |
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| 16:48.22 | nyetzsche | Blissex: "locked" due to not having permissions to it (i.e., owned by root, and rw-------) |
| 16:49.04 | Gumby | lo all. I was wondering if anyone here knows the different between the klaptop daemon's settings of suspend, hibernate, and standby are |
| 16:49.21 | nyetzsche | r00tsh3ll: how do I open konqueror as root? is there a quick way or do I just do it from the konsole/xterm (when su-ed as root)? |
| 16:50.15 | Blissex | nyetzsche: just type 'konqueror' |
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| 16:54.26 | grepper | yep, I only get it in 2.6.9 and only on one machine - 2.6.9 and hdparm is normal on the other |
| 16:54.36 | grepper | as is 2.6.8* on this machine |
| 16:56.24 | r00tsh3ll | Linux athena 2.6.10 #1 Sat Dec 25 12:48:55 BRST 2004 i686 |
| 16:56.26 | r00tsh3ll | ;p |
| 16:57.43 | *** join/#kde Theory (~theo@theos.plus.com) |
| 17:03.20 | grepper | r00tsh3ll, your Christmas present ? |
| 17:04.32 | nyetzsche | Blissex: ah, ok, so the normal way... was hoping there was a nice GUI shortcut/option to do it... |
| 17:05.45 | TMM | nyetzsche: well, you could start "kdesu konqueror" |
| 17:06.12 | TMM | nyetzsche: that's a gui-like solution... but you don't really want to make stuff like that too easy for yourself ;) |
| 17:08.13 | praseodymium | is there anything like adblock for konqueror? |
| 17:08.42 | grepper | praseodymium, go to the javascript section in konq's config |
| 17:08.59 | praseodymium | grepper: and then |
| 17:09.12 | grepper | I use "smart" or somesuch |
| 17:09.34 | praseodymium | well I'm looking for a way to block images/iframes/javascripts, not popups |
| 17:16.23 | nyetzsche | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:39.46 | jadrian | praseodymium: there are some external programs that work as proies |
| 17:39.50 | jadrian | praseodymium: proxies |
| 17:40.25 | jadrian | praseodymium: like privoxy |
| 17:40.45 | jadrian | praseodymium: but that's it... |
| 17:41.17 | jadrian | http://www.privoxy.org/ |
| 17:41.35 | gnoob | does linux have any fancy firewalls like the ones you get in windows that pop up questions and let you make rules when an attempted connection is made? |
| 17:45.29 | *** join/#kde muphicks (~muphicks@zeus.mups.co.uk) |
| 17:46.53 | Theory | I remember someone was talking about creating one on one of the mailing lists a while back |
| 17:47.01 | Theory | I don't know of any that currently exist |
| 17:47.30 | gnoob | Theory; ok. |
| 17:47.54 | gnoob | so what do most people do IPchains or whatever? |
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| 17:48.29 | Theory | for protecting from the world outside iptables, yeah |
| 17:49.15 | gnoob | alright |
| 17:54.14 | gnoob | how come when i have say two instenced of konqueror open the tab on the menu changes positions when i close one instance? It's very annoying. |
| 17:54.53 | jadrian | gnoob: probably not what you want, but there are some guis for firewalls |
| 17:55.53 | jadrian | gnoob: SuSE for instance comes with SuSEfirewall2, and there was also a KDE one, guard dog or something like that, check on kde-apps |
| 17:55.55 | gnoob | jadrian; know any off hand? I would check them out. If they make configuring easier. |
| 17:56.12 | gnoob | cool |
| 17:56.19 | gnoob | i don't have suse |
| 17:56.28 | jadrian | gnoob: I don't know much about firewalls, but I found it easy to configure what I needed using SuSE's GUI |
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| 17:57.25 | jadrian | gnoob: http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=9944 <-- GuardDog |
| 17:57.43 | Theory | my approach is to just use firehol and it's built in config |
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| 18:01.35 | gnoob | jadrian; thanks. Theory firehol is also a program like guard-dog? |
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| 18:02.13 | Theory | firehol isn't a gui |
| 18:02.24 | Theory | it's like a preprocessor for firewall rules |
| 18:02.24 | gnoob | ah |
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| 18:12.29 | *** join/#kde david___ (nobody@vidsolbach.de) |
| 18:12.41 | david___ | hi |
| 18:13.02 | david___ | Can you use KDevelop with SDL now? is that common along kde-devs? |
| 18:13.58 | PhilRod | AFAIK, SDL isn't used widely (at all?) in KDE, but I would imagine that there's no problem using it with KDevelop |
| 18:14.04 | *** part/#kde funky (~repulse@81-202-240-13.user.ono.com) |
| 18:14.50 | david___ | PhilRod: I found an howto (http://www.geekcomix.com/snh/files/docs/sdl-kdev/sdl-kdev-mini-how2-2.html) but it talks about kdevelop-version 1.4, which is quite out of date, i guess |
| 18:15.22 | david___ | PhilRod: I thought I could use SDL for multimedia-things like decode audo-streams |
| 18:18.23 | *** join/#kde Julianyus (~Julian@81-203-67-235.user.ono.com) |
| 18:18.36 | gnoob | i am going to burn these MP3's(from a CD) to CD but i know some songe bleed right into the next CD and some have a slight gap like most songs. Can i burn it so that songs that lead into another are preserved? |
| 18:19.00 | gnoob | did that make sense? |
| 18:19.03 | Julianyus | hi |
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| 18:20.55 | PhilRod | david___: yes, I think that's what SDL does, but I don't think there are any convenience functions to make it work nicely with KDE |
| 18:21.29 | PhilRod | gnoob: yes you can - I think you need disc-at-once mode, but read the cdrecord manpage - I think that explains it |
| 18:21.54 | PhilRod | gnoob: and then I suppose k3b has an option for it |
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| 18:23.39 | gnoob | PhilRod; ok, i thought Disk at once did something like that but was not sure. |
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| 18:37.28 | praseodymium | finally done reporting 10 bugs |
| 18:42.35 | gnoob | that's a lot of bugs |
| 18:44.05 | Chambers` | hey guys, whats the command to restart x? |
| 18:45.56 | gnoob | ctrl-alt-backspace |
| 18:45.59 | gnoob | should work |
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| 18:48.17 | Chambers` | thanks!! |
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| 18:55.21 | *** join/#kde absentia (~scott@ns6.lobodirect.com) |
| 18:55.30 | absentia | hi... how can I have konquerer use socks as my proxy? |
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| 18:59.11 | Platyna | absentia: If you choose Konqueror preferences --> proxy you have a tab with "Socks". |
| 18:59.48 | TMM | Socks, that reminds me... need to do the laundry |
| 18:59.49 | TMM | ;) |
| 19:00.02 | absentia | ya? I enabled dante .. it tests out, but then nothing happens... ? |
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| 19:00.22 | absentia | do I have to set some env var in my login and then restart the gui? |
| 19:01.36 | Platyna | absentia: Choose autodetection. |
| 19:01.42 | absentia | ok |
| 19:01.55 | Platyna | Login and password you are settin in main proxy menu. |
| 19:02.01 | *** part/#kde SHuRuP (~shurup@82.148.27.42) |
| 19:02.43 | absentia | how does it know where my socks server it? |
| 19:02.52 | absentia | I selected autodetection.. but it still doesn't work. |
| 19:03.22 | absentia | for instance, I am using socks with firefox just fine... I am also talking to you now going out through socks... only konq can't seem to be configured to use socks. |
| 19:08.47 | david___ | PhilRod: so, what would you use to write an audio streaming application? |
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| 19:11.21 | PhilRod | david___: well, the KDE way to do it would be to use arts, but of course, there's nothing to stop you using SDL |
| 19:11.39 | PhilRod | sorry, I don't think I'm explaining myself very well - you might want to ask in #kde-devel |
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| 19:33.07 | dhuv | hello all |
| 19:33.40 | dhuv | i am starting to use konqueror more and more as a file manager and am somewhat confused about customizing it |
| 19:34.14 | dhuv | for instance, in the multicolumn view how do i allow file names to be as long as possible |
| 19:35.58 | Blissex | a question from me for a change: how do I prevent Konqueror from having variable width tabs? I would like them all fixed width like in Firefox... |
| 19:36.11 | dhuv | also how do i change the keyboard shortcut for for a new tab? |
| 19:36.29 | dhuv | currently its ctrl + shift + n but i would like the familiar ctrl + t |
| 19:36.40 | Blissex | dhuv: CTRL-T does work here... |
| 19:36.43 | absentia | ok, so I guess konq still just can't use socks. shame. |
| 19:37.00 | Blissex | dhuv: also, you can change a lot of kb shortcuts anyhow |
| 19:37.24 | dhuv | Blissex: i see |
| 19:37.45 | dhuv | other things take that shortcut? |
| 19:38.01 | Blissex | dhuv: perhaps. |
| 19:38.36 | Blissex | dhuv: you known that you can configure keyboard shortcuts under 'Regional & Accessibility' in the main control panel |
| 19:39.27 | Blissex | dhuv: you may have an app shortcut that overlaps that... |
| 19:39.35 | dhuv | ahh ok, i will check |
| 19:39.36 | dhuv | thanks |
| 19:39.46 | dhuv | thanks |
| 19:40.21 | dhuv | i setup a default account for samba but it only works for some shares |
| 19:40.39 | dhuv | on others it promots for the user/pass even though its exactly the same |
| 19:40.44 | dhuv | any reason this would be so? |
| 19:40.55 | Blissex | dhuv: in any case the Konqueror specific keyboard shortcuts are under 'Settings>Configure shortcuts'. |
| 19:41.20 | Blissex | dhuv: that is really a Samba question, and there is #samba. |
| 19:41.30 | Blissex | dhuv: the main problems is |
| 19:42.02 | dhuv | but i enter the same user/pass and i am given access |
| 19:42.09 | Blissex | dhuv: that the authentication rules for NetBIOS/SMB shares are fiendishly weird. You really need to understand the various types of authentication and defaults MS Windows uses |
| 19:42.24 | dhuv | ok |
| 19:42.56 | Blissex | dhuv: so read very carefully the related bit of the Samba docs... It is painful but has to be done. |
| 19:43.18 | dhuv | ok |
| 19:43.21 | dhuv | i will, thanks |
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| 19:45.00 | Borg^Queen | Hello you festering piles of carbon |
| 19:48.08 | Blissex | Borg^Queen: and water. mostly water and salt. |
| 19:48.20 | Borg^Queen | Oooh yes, thank you |
| 19:48.40 | Borg^Queen | I'll vaporize you last |
| 19:49.27 | Blissex | Borg^Queen: Borg^Queen we'll rust you :-) |
| 19:49.35 | *** join/#kde _titou (~titou1@berkelium.ap2c.org) |
| 19:49.35 | Borg^Queen | LOL |
| 20:12.53 | gnoob | xpdf is taking a while to control this pdf file. I click next page and it takes like 30 seconds. |
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| 20:24.39 | *** join/#kde Broca (~arj@thx1138.nvg.ntnu.no) |
| 20:26.36 | Broca | Good evening. Usually, when I hit the volume-up/volume-down/mute buttons on my laptop, it would either affect the master volume of the mixer, and I would get a message to that effect on the screen, OR, I would get a message saying "It seems that kmix is not running". This no longer happens, and it applies to all users. |
| 20:26.40 | Rorqual_Celine | raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa |
| 20:27.48 | Broca | By the way, http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=Asking+Questions, which is mentioned in the topic, gives me a 404. |
| 20:28.54 | *** join/#kde muphicks (~muphicks@zeus.mups.co.uk) |
| 20:35.56 | Broca | Nevermind, figured it out. I had to set the keyboard in kxkb. |
| 20:35.58 | Blissex | Broca: it looks like that those buttons of your laptop are somehow linked to KMix. Odds are they are linked via KHotKeys in 'Rregional & Accessibility' |
| 20:37.21 | *** join/#kde marcusU (~marcus@HOST-216-39-197-167.mylinuxisp.com) |
| 20:37.45 | marcusU | I'm still getting errors building recent kdelibs: kdecore.so.4: undefined symbol: qt_x_user_time |
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| 20:38.28 | Platyna | Upgrade qt |
| 20:38.48 | marcusU | There's a more one than in qt-copy? |
| 20:38.52 | marcusU | more recent |
| 20:39.31 | *** part/#kde humphrey (~mark@p50807A78.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:39.42 | marcusU | thiego said that it's a build (libtool) problem a while back. I thought it was getting fixed |
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| 20:43.31 | NEM0X | alguien habla espa?o? |
| 20:44.23 | marcusU | Another reason to hate libtool. |
| 20:44.44 | code_ | n8 |
| 20:47.44 | marcusU | Apparently, having two versions of Qt installed along with some C++ compatibility libs in /usr/lib causes bugs in libtool |
| 20:47.50 | marcusU | Or bugs in KDE's build system. |
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| 20:48.29 | CLucas916 | does anyone know how to turn off that annoying kde startup sound |
| 20:49.40 | termo | CLucas916: I think everybody knows that |
| 20:49.57 | CLucas916 | i think im new to fuckin kde |
| 20:49.59 | marcusU | CLucas916: One way is to turn off sounds periodd. |
| 20:50.18 | marcusU | CLucas916: Do you really want to keep the other kinds of audio alerts? |
| 20:50.34 | CLucas916 | no i hate all the audio alerts |
| 20:50.53 | CLucas916 | but i dont want to turn off all the sound |
| 20:50.59 | gnoob | audio alerts suck. |
| 20:51.05 | marcusU | I didn't mean all sound, just audio alerts. |
| 20:51.19 | gnoob | i turn off all sounds. related to the desktop. |
| 20:51.27 | marcusU | Go to Control Center, Sound & Multimedia, System Notifications |
| 20:51.34 | CLucas916 | ahh ok |
| 20:51.53 | marcusU | Under Quick Controls, select Apply to all, and click Turn Off.... |
| 20:52.32 | CLucas916 | great thanks marcusU |
| 20:52.44 | marcusU | CLucas916: You're welcome. |
| 20:52.50 | CLucas916 | and termo, fuck u |
| 20:52.54 | termo | :) |
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| 20:53.26 | termo | Well, glad I didn't help him :) |
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| 21:10.37 | Blissex | termo: some people... |
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| 21:26.37 | *** join/#kde Nigel (nigel@osama-bin-laden.user) |
| 21:27.41 | Nigel | hey, i seem to have a problem with kdm running the wrong command for starting a window manager and wondering if someone could point me to the file that i could edit to change this? |
| 21:28.07 | Nigel | i can't find it and have being looking for quite a while now |
| 21:28.11 | *** join/#kde alejandro (~alejandro@78.Red-80-35-162.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:28.15 | Renze | Nigel: which version of kde, and which wm are you trying to start? |
| 21:28.35 | Nigel | ok it happens to all window managers |
| 21:28.41 | Nigel | and let me check on the version |
| 21:28.42 | Nigel | brb |
| 21:29.04 | *** join/#kde alejandro (~alejandro@78.Red-80-35-162.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:29.52 | Nigel | KDE 3.2.2 - onlu because 3.3.x hasn't been built for debian yet |
| 21:30.21 | marcusU | Maybe something in /etc/X11/xdm |
| 21:30.31 | Nigel | kdm is running "xterm -ls -T kdestart" |
| 21:31.39 | marcusU | Nigel: Try grep'ping for the string 'xterm -ls -T kdestart' or just 'kdestart' |
| 21:31.43 | marcusU | Just an idea. |
| 21:31.57 | Nigel | thanks |
| 21:31.59 | Nigel | i'll try that |
| 21:32.27 | *** join/#kde Karli (~Frank@port-195-158-170-199.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 21:37.16 | Blissex | so so, hown do I set Konqueror tabs to have a fixed length instead of variable? |
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| 21:38.05 | asssda | hi ? |
| 21:38.42 | *** part/#kde asssda (~root@pD953A36E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:38.53 | aseigo_h | Blissex: you can't atm |
| 21:39.48 | Blissex | aseigo_h: oh well. Ill survive the disappointment I guess :-) |
| 21:40.13 | Renze | Blissex: you're not going to swear at people and leave in a huff? :) |
| 21:40.45 | jepel_tailweaver | hey Blissex |
| 21:40.53 | jepel_tailweaver | saw you in linuxhelp a moment ago |
| 21:41.12 | aseigo_h | Blissex: there's recently been a mode added to tabs that allows scaling them as opposed to resizing... but it hasn't been added to konqi yet, though i've seen some rumblings bout htat |
| 21:41.26 | aseigo_h | Blissex: so perhaps, and that's a big perhaps at this point, 3.4 will have that |
| 21:41.55 | Blissex | Renze: when ever? |
| 21:41.56 | Nigel | thanks there, it works now |
| 21:42.13 | Renze | Blissex: so many other people seem to do that... :) |
| 21:42.30 | Nigel | the default in kdmrc seems to be a bit messed up |
| 21:42.40 | *** join/#kde AssociateX (~SouthBoun@24-117-131-114.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 21:42.57 | Blissex | Renze: I am NOT A FUCKING N00BIE YOU !"£$%^! to behave LIKE THAT! Ill leave now if dont want to HELP Me! :-) :-) |
| 21:43.13 | aseigo_h | haha |
| 21:43.16 | *** part/#kde supos (~supos@0x50c70768.adsl-fixed.tele.dk) |
| 21:43.17 | Renze | Blissex: that's more like it :) |
| 21:43.26 | *** part/#kde Nigel (nigel@osama-bin-laden.user) |
| 21:43.49 | aseigo_h | Blissex: you forgot, "I'm going to switch to GNOME because KDE obviously sucks. I might not if it had <insert pet desire here>." |
| 21:45.21 | Blissex | aseigo_h: KDE sucks, it just sucks less, which is a lot already. But earlier I incurred <canllaith>'s wrath for one of my usual moans about working set sized of various apps (it started with 'xkb' and then I went on with 'ls' :->) |
| 21:46.19 | aseigo_h | Blissex: you mean RSS in RAM? |
| 21:49.11 | Blissex | aseigo_h: I have found it, it just completes from space... |
| 21:49.26 | Blissex | aseigo_h: yes, roughly, however poorly defined that is in Linux. |
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| 21:50.46 | Blissex | aseigo_h: I am an old UNIX/whatever guy and seeing resident set sizes of closwe to 1MB for 'ls' and over 10MB for 'kxkb' just depresses me. |
| 21:54.09 | *** part/#kde luci (~luci@rtvdata-wADSL.pol.bezdrat.net) |
| 21:54.28 | praseodymium | why cant I enable versioning when I add a project in KDevelop? |
| 21:58.22 | termo | hmm |
| 21:58.28 | termo | could anybody explain this? |
| 21:58.45 | termo | when browsing to lan:/host |
| 21:58.50 | termo | and click on SMB |
| 21:58.57 | termo | I can access the samba share |
| 21:59.22 | termo | but when entering smb://host in the address bar |
| 21:59.26 | termo | It fails |
| 22:00.09 | termo | (either when using host-name or host-ip) |
| 22:00.40 | aseigo_h | termo: could be that they are using differnet ioslaves for it =/ |
| 22:00.53 | *** join/#kde gnoob (~noone@adsl-68-125-81-41.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 22:01.36 | gnoob | every time i boot up i am getting a message about needing root privileges to run command "konqueror'-session'" |
| 22:01.51 | gnoob | i entered my password once but it came up again next time stil. |
| 22:01.53 | gnoob | still |
| 22:01.53 | termo | aseigo_h: hmm, that would be strange and incoherent, because when clicking on SMB, smb://host appears in the address bar automatically |
| 22:02.43 | aseigo_h | Blissex: yes, there's a lot that can be done to make it better |
| 22:02.43 | termo | hmmmmm |
| 22:02.53 | aseigo_h | Blissex: in some areas we're doing quite well, all things told |
| 22:03.00 | aseigo_h | Blissex: there is room for improvement, though |
| 22:03.06 | termo | While playing I guess I figured something out |
| 22:03.49 | aseigo_h | termo: hm ... then i'm not sure... so... if you cut and paste the smb:/ url that appears when going through lan:/ it doesn't work? |
| 22:04.13 | termo | I forgot the trailing / |
| 22:04.21 | termo | though I don't think that should matter |
| 22:04.23 | aseigo_h | Blissex: keep in mind that these days we support multiple languages, configurable key bindings, icons with lots of colours (loaded at runtime), etc |
| 22:06.29 | aseigo_h | Blissex: and all those things incur overhead. we could always go back to the days of monochrome, non-changable icons... single languages.... etc |
| 22:06.41 | aseigo_h | Blissex: but most people'd rather not ;-) |
| 22:07.25 | *** join/#kde Theory (~theo@theos.plus.com) |
| 22:12.20 | Blissex | aseigo_h: yes, but there wider issues... |
| 22:12.45 | aseigo_h | Blissex: which ones? |
| 22:13.09 | Blissex | aseigo_h: there are both technical issues (e.g. large page sizes, extremely poor library layouts, l;ack of tools) |
| 22:13.18 | praseodymium | why cant I enable versioning when I add a project in KDevelop? |
| 22:14.35 | Blissex | aseigo_h: but the big issue is nowadays social: Linux developers (the most influential ones) have gone from being poor and using crap old PCs to being employed for huge salaries by corporations that give them enormous, latest-and-greatest, corporate PCs. |
| 22:14.47 | aseigo_h | Blissex: hrm... what % of usage is due to unused bytes in pages? |
| 22:15.01 | Blissex | aseigo_h: my estimate is about 70-80% |
| 22:15.12 | aseigo_h | Blissex: the library layouts are being worked on.. esp with things like the symbol visbility stuff |
| 22:15.20 | *** join/#kde straw (~strawman@stjh1-2256.nb.aliant.net) |
| 22:15.22 | aseigo_h | Blissex: and i don't particularly agree about the lack of tools, to be honest |
| 22:16.27 | Blissex | aseigo_h: the KDE performance subproject is better than most but still... |
| 22:17.16 | Blissex | aseigo_h: also consider among social factors that there is a vast and profound literature on working set minimikzations that has been all but forgotten... |
| 22:17.38 | aseigo_h | Blissex: perhaps because alot of that is now meaningless? |
| 22:17.55 | aseigo_h | most such practices result in a trade-off between speed and resource usage |
| 22:18.02 | Blissex | aseigo_h: no, because of larger page sizes it is not meaningless, it is more meaningful. |
| 22:18.25 | aseigo_h | you mean things like allocation of small chunks of memory in sequence? |
| 22:18.34 | aseigo_h | so as to avoid memory framentation? |
| 22:18.44 | Blissex | aseigo_h: and the tradeoff is between skill and memory usage, not speed. WOrking set minimization improves speed considerably, if opnly because of caching effects, even if no paging occurs |
| 22:19.00 | aseigo_h | bulshit. a LOT of memory saving strategies are inherently slower |
| 22:19.20 | *** join/#kde Alethes_ (pennywise@alethes.user) |
| 22:19.26 | aseigo_h | you can moan all you want about the good ol' days of programming and the Real Men who programmed then, but the skill comment is pure crap |
| 22:19.38 | Blissex | aseigo_h: I mean mostly being aware that spatial and temporal correlation of accesses are very different. |
| 22:20.24 | Blissex | aseigo_h: it is not pure crap -- things like say 'xterm' or 'konsole' just about only do blits from here to there, and should have memory residencies of perhaps a few KB, not many MB. |
| 22:20.49 | aseigo_h | Blissex: i see you haven't read konsole's code |
| 22:21.01 | Blissex | aseigo_h: but I see its memory stats... |
| 22:21.11 | aseigo_h | Blissex: "only do blits from here to there" |
| 22:21.14 | markey | deja vu |
| 22:21.19 | aseigo_h | markey: yeah, no shit |
| 22:21.20 | markey | we've had this the other day |
| 22:21.33 | Blissex | markey: ah good :-) |
| 22:21.53 | aseigo_h | Blissex: look, go read konsole's code, go read what i wrote about configurability and support for things like multiple languages ,then come back and talk |
| 22:22.09 | aseigo_h | Blissex: it's not possible to have a cogent conversation about code level issues with someone who isn't familiar with the code. i hope you'd at least agree there. |
| 22:22.27 | Blissex | aseigo_h: yes, and you seem to have a learning to do. |
| 22:22.53 | aseigo_h | lol ... |
| 22:22.58 | aseigo_h | sure, everyone does |
| 22:23.07 | aseigo_h | no argument from me there |
| 22:23.12 | Renze | you stop learning when you die |
| 22:23.36 | Blissex | aseigo_h: think carefully about what happens 99% of the time with something like konsole: all the complicated functionality happens very very rarely. Again, 99% of the time people type in a character and a glyph gets blitted. |
| 22:23.47 | aseigo_h | it just amazes me though that you'd walk in here with what's obviously a fair amount of knowledge, and yet lack the wisdom to not comment on a codebase you know nothing of? |
| 22:23.57 | aseigo_h | again, you obviously haven't read konsole's cod |
| 22:23.59 | aseigo_h | er, code |
| 22:24.03 | Blissex | aseigo_h: so the inner loop should have a memory residency of a few KB. |
| 22:24.10 | Blissex | aseigo_h: if that. |
| 22:24.34 | Blissex | aseigo_h: the code might be very complex, but if it is that just means it is very badly written. |
| 22:24.38 | aseigo_h | "i know i'm ignorant on this topic, but let me continue to expound like i was fucking plato himself" |
| 22:25.07 | Blissex | aseigo_h: BTW consider the similarity here with the X server itself, one of the most poorly and ignorantly written programs around... |
| 22:25.10 | aseigo_h | the code isn't particularly complex (more so than on would like, but that's largely due to the mess that is UNIX terminal) |
| 22:25.28 | aseigo_h | (and which is almost 100% blamable upon the moron UNIX developers of the late 80s and early 90s) |
| 22:25.44 | Blissex | aseigo_h: largely the same that wrote the X sample server :-) |
| 22:25.55 | aseigo_h | but WHAT the code provides, such as history and visual configurability, takes size |
| 22:26.10 | aseigo_h | and almost ALL the time is spent in antialiasing text |
| 22:26.16 | Blissex | aseigo_h: yes, code size, but it does not need to cost _resident set size_. |
| 22:26.22 | aseigo_h | NOT in blitting or assembling which glyphs ar eneeded |
| 22:26.51 | aseigo_h | you do understand how configurability works, right |
| 22:27.04 | Blissex | aseigo_h: one can have a very large and complex program of which however only a tiny bit is used 99% of the time... |
| 22:27.10 | aseigo_h | instead of hardcoding something, you store it in a mutable media, such as ram and/or disk |
| 22:27.19 | Blissex | aseigo_h: depends which configurabilkity.... :-) |
| 22:27.26 | aseigo_h | and when you have images, you can't exactly hardcode that either and store it in code pages unless it's static |
| 22:27.37 | aseigo_h | so know, you are copmletely wrong about "not needing to cost rss" |
| 22:27.47 | aseigo_h | er, so no |
| 22:28.05 | aseigo_h | seriously, i agree with several of the things you said earlier about optimization |
| 22:28.22 | aseigo_h | some, i don't.. like the tools... we have some rather nice tools these days (Though they can always be better... no matter how good they are ;-) |
| 22:28.26 | Blissex | aseigo_h: the inner loop can be very very small. But as I was saying most people dont know about these issues at all. |
| 22:28.43 | aseigo_h | "inner loop" |
| 22:29.06 | *** join/#kde KungFu (~Gernot@p50803EEF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:29.09 | KungFu | hi |
| 22:29.12 | aseigo_h | KungFu: hey |
| 22:29.30 | aseigo_h | Blissex: the more you expound on konsole, the more you sound silly |
| 22:29.34 | KungFu | my kmix won't remember that it was on when I shut down. |
| 22:29.40 | KungFu | I use gdm for login |
| 22:30.05 | aseigo_h | Blissex: note i havne't said much about xterm. that's because i haven't looked at its codebase |
| 22:30.17 | aseigo_h | Blissex: i wouldn't be able to begin to comment on its strengths and weaknesses |
| 22:30.30 | aseigo_h | Blissex: or why it takes a certain amount of ram, or why it's fast (or slow, depending) |
| 22:30.37 | jepel_tailweaver | hello all |
| 22:31.09 | aseigo_h | Blissex: if you wish to discuss in generalities, great .. or in specifics about code you're familiar with, great... but outside of those parameters, it's so much smoke up my ass |
| 22:31.24 | aseigo_h | jepel_tailweaver: hey guy |
| 22:31.57 | jepel_tailweaver | How do I force my External Taskbar to always keep the icons in one row and not two? |
| 22:32.15 | Blissex | aseigo_h: note that I am commenting on Konsole's _functionality_. I am not discussing its _implementation_, except to note that the implementation belabors that functionality. |
| 22:32.57 | aseigo_h | [15:19:50] <Blissex> aseigo_h: think carefully about what happens 99% of the time with something like konsole: all the complicated functionality happens very very rarely. Again, 99% of the time people type in a character and a glyph gets blitted. |
| 22:33.04 | Blissex | aseigo_h: 99% of the time all Konsole does is to take a packet, look it up and blit a glyph from here to there. |
| 22:33.30 | aseigo_h | fine. where's your profiling to back that up? |
| 22:33.36 | Renze | assumptions are the mother of all fuckups |
| 22:33.37 | aseigo_h | or is this "guessing on the back of a napkin" numbers? |
| 22:33.38 | Blissex | aseigo_h: yes, that is its functionality, not how it is implemented. |
| 22:33.59 | aseigo_h | well, what i'm saying is you don't understand the functionality. |
| 22:34.03 | Blissex | aseigo_h: there is no need to profile it, because that's what actually happens. |
| 22:34.17 | aseigo_h | if you read the codebase, understood what it is doing and how it needs to do it, then maybe you'd start from a position of slightly more senes |
| 22:34.19 | aseigo_h | er, sense |
| 22:34.32 | *** join/#kde AlanG (~alan@pc-200-74-1-147.san-damian3.pc.metropolis-inter.com) |
| 22:34.37 | Blissex | aseigo_h: 99% oif the time in a Konsole a user clicks a few keys, and then one or a few dozen glyphs get rendered. |
| 22:34.44 | aseigo_h | Blissex: sooooo... how do you know that's actually what it does? |
| 22:34.48 | *** join/#kde TestoSteven (~steven@D576C655.kabel.telenet.be) |
| 22:35.04 | Blissex | aseigo_h: because I see it with my eyes every time I use it. |
| 22:35.10 | aseigo_h | omfg |
| 22:35.22 | aseigo_h | right, and the code isn't doing ANYtihng that you can't see |
| 22:35.29 | aseigo_h | like, it isn't maintaining a histoyr |
| 22:35.31 | aseigo_h | er, history |
| 22:35.41 | Blissex | aseigo_h: the problem is that it implements that functionality with lots of code and data structures that are overly complex for the task. |
| 22:35.44 | aseigo_h | or checking to see the current mode it's in for rendering |
| 22:35.50 | aseigo_h | or compositing onto a background |
| 22:35.54 | aseigo_h | or ... |
| 22:36.05 | Blissex | aseigo_h: but those things are very tiny or need to happen very rarely. |
| 22:36.10 | aseigo_h | history? |
| 22:36.22 | Blissex | write a character to a file? |
| 22:36.30 | Blissex | one line? |
| 22:36.31 | aseigo_h | history occurs with each line that scrolls past (well, not quite, it's a bit smarter than that) |
| 22:36.49 | Blissex | aseigo_h: we are still talking kilobytes, not megabytes. |
| 22:36.50 | aseigo_h | (it's block based so it's rather fast, but that's another matter) |
| 22:37.18 | aseigo_h | well, that's exactly one item that you haven't been taking into consideration |
| 22:37.31 | aseigo_h | i could step you through many, many others and i'm not even the maintainer of konsole |
| 22:37.48 | Blissex | aseigo_h: the big problem BTW is what is technically called "path length": both the libraries that Konsole uses and Konsole itself seem to go via very long paths even in very simple cases. |
| 22:38.37 | aseigo_h | ok. what's your evidence for this statement of ours? |
| 22:38.41 | aseigo_h | er, yours |
| 22:38.42 | Blissex | aseigo_h: also the paths (jumps chains, pointer chains) seem to be over very diffuse data and code, so probably many/most jumps and pointing are to a different page. |
| 22:39.04 | aseigo_h | right, and that's such a huge % of the overhead. rolls eyes |
| 22:39.06 | Blissex | aseigo_h: the enormous resident set of Konsole, which is beyond reason for the simple stuff that happens 99% of the time. |
| 22:39.52 | aseigo_h | Blissex: well, yes, that's pretty obvious. no you stop, pull your hands from you keyboard for a second, and go into "read and try and understand" mode. let me know when you're there. |
| 22:39.57 | aseigo_h | s,no ou, now you, |
| 22:40.10 | *** join/#kde Unbeliever (~Unbelieve@79.18.223.82.arsystel.com) |
| 22:40.21 | aseigo_h | ready? good. |
| 22:40.43 | aseigo_h | today applicatoins do more than strictly support the functionality that occurs in 99% of the perceivable interaction |
| 22:40.57 | aseigo_h | konsole supports configurable menus, for example |
| 22:41.00 | Blissex | aseigo_h: it is like the X server: 99% of the time it should have a 4-5KB resident set, but to get to the inner loop it does stupendous amounts of branching and pointer chasing. Note that every time you touch a page, even if it is only ton execute/read a dozen bytes from it, the whole page becomes or remains resident... |
| 22:41.03 | aseigo_h | note that that is exactly 1 example. |
| 22:41.17 | aseigo_h | Blissex: dude, hands off the keyboard. just for a minute. |
| 22:41.29 | *** join/#kde sredna (~anders@alund.developer.kde) |
| 22:41.36 | aseigo_h | each of these features, which are highly asked for by our users, add to the weight of apps |
| 22:41.58 | *** part/#kde KungFu (~Gernot@p50803EEF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:42.00 | aseigo_h | we are trying to ballance between features, which add weight, and implementing them in ways that is efficient and tossing features that are less useful |
| 22:42.11 | aseigo_h | however, modern OSes try and minimize swap outs |
| 22:42.27 | aseigo_h | so your RSS is going to include a LOT of these things that arne't related to the current loop of code |
| 22:42.30 | aseigo_h | this isn't 1986 |
| 22:42.32 | aseigo_h | it's 204 |
| 22:42.34 | aseigo_h | er,2004 |
| 22:42.39 | aseigo_h | and our VM techniques are slightly different |
| 22:43.04 | Blissex | aseigo_h: "VM techniques are slightly different", not they are crap... |
| 22:43.05 | aseigo_h | so when you see konsole responding to text input and rendering glyphs, it's RSS is going to include a lot of the application infrastructure around it |
| 22:43.37 | aseigo_h | Blissex: given the fact that we have protected memory and >8MiB in most computers, no they aren't |
| 22:43.46 | aseigo_h | Blissex: differnet algorithms for different realities. |
| 22:44.16 | aseigo_h | it makes less than zero sense to swap out all but the "few KB" that are currently used |
| 22:44.19 | Blissex | aseigo_h: note that I agree with almost all you have just said, except that I think one should not think it is good and great. |
| 22:44.32 | aseigo_h | since that would incur such a useless penalty when, for instance, that menu system needs to be called again |
| 22:44.40 | jal | user wants responsivness |
| 22:44.46 | aseigo_h | jal: most do, yes |
| 22:44.49 | aseigo_h | jal: it's a ballancing act |
| 22:44.55 | Renze | Blissex: if keeping stuff in RAM makes the app run faster, that's a very good thing to your average user |
| 22:45.00 | aseigo_h | Blissex: i think you have a misconception about "good" |
| 22:45.02 | jal | ( it was an afirmation ;) ) |
| 22:45.03 | aseigo_h | Blissex: there is no "good" |
| 22:45.15 | aseigo_h | Blissex: there is "optimal given scenario X" |
| 22:45.35 | aseigo_h | Blissex: tell me this, which is better: a linked list or a vector/array? |
| 22:45.44 | aseigo_h | or rather, which is "good and great" |
| 22:46.04 | aseigo_h | when you answer that question, you'll be that much closer to understanding why what you're saying is bunk. |
| 22:46.09 | Blissex | aseigo_h: thats what drives me crazy: you seem to be aware of some things and not any idea that VM does not work like that, now or never. Its those 30 years of paper on VM woprking set minimization that hacve been forgotten. |
| 22:46.44 | Blissex | Renze: "keeping stuff in RAM makes the app run faster" only when it is *useful*, otherwise it crowds out other stuff. |
| 22:47.23 | Renze | Blissex: RAM is cheap and plentiful, and users don't give two shits about memory footprints |
| 22:47.30 | aseigo_h | Renze: that's not particularly true |
| 22:47.48 | aseigo_h | Renze: it's a ballancing act between the two and trying to take care of both as much as possible |
| 22:48.12 | Renze | aseigo: 99.9% of users don't even know what RAM is :) |
| 22:48.35 | aseigo_h | Renze: but they know the impacts of swapping and memory fragmentation from the responsivity issues it creates |
| 22:49.08 | Renze | aseigo: again that percentage would just think that's what computers do, and not care :) |
| 22:49.46 | aseigo_h | Blissex: to get back to the point, i do agree that there's a lot of room for improvements. but what you're advocating is a tower of logic built on a foundation of ignorance of the items at hand |
| 22:49.54 | aseigo_h | where "items" is things like "konsoles code base" |
| 22:49.59 | aseigo_h | Blissex: and here's why i have issues with that |
| 22:50.17 | Blissex | aseigo_h: it is a very complicate story about linked lists and arrays. For example: which stride are you accessing the array with? How large is the occupancy rate? What is the ratio of reads to writes? How changeable is the size of the data set? But in a heavily cached machine usually arrays are enormously prefarablwe to linked lists. |
| 22:50.18 | aseigo_h | Blissex: people such as yourself can often be seen on message boards waxing poetic about these issues... |
| 22:50.41 | aseigo_h | Blissex: exactly. so in other words, there is no "best" .. it highly depends on the situation and goals |
| 22:51.30 | aseigo_h | Blissex: ... and when people read these messages and these ideas they become 'memes' that the lesser informed spew forth verbatim as if they were accurate |
| 22:51.54 | aseigo_h | Blissex: ... and since they are the ramblings of the educated on specifics they know little about, these memes are usually 100% bullshit |
| 22:52.11 | aseigo_h | Blissex: ... which in turn sets up innacurate expectations and desires |
| 22:52.26 | aseigo_h | Blissex: ... which in turn motivates people to look in the wrong places to fix things |
| 22:52.35 | aseigo_h | Blissex: ... which in turn helps ensure the real problems aren't ever looked at |
| 22:52.39 | Blissex | aseigo_h: unless you have read at least a little bit of those 30 years of papers, that is a bit of a rash conclusion. |
| 22:53.00 | aseigo_h | yes, you assume i'm not agreeing with you wholely because i don't know |
| 22:53.08 | aseigo_h | and if that makes it more easy for you, whatever |
| 22:53.23 | aseigo_h | but i've watched our project go through one of these cycles recently |
| 22:53.26 | Blissex | aseigo_h: the real problem after all is that many like <Renze> think memory is essentially infinite. |
| 22:53.53 | Renze | I never claimed that... I said the average user doesn't give a shit, and that's true... they don't |
| 22:53.55 | aseigo_h | Blissex: that and people like you inject good sounding, but factually crap, ideas into the memestream |
| 22:54.05 | aseigo_h | Blissex: so we end up with N+1 bad ideas |
| 22:54.14 | Renze | Blissex: please do NOT put words in my mouth that I never said... it tends to make me very angry |
| 22:54.22 | aseigo_h | anyways, some people got it into their head that this one particular optimization was a great idea |
| 22:54.29 | aseigo_h | and it does have some positive benefit |
| 22:54.36 | Blissex | Renze: <Renze> Blissex: RAM is cheap and plentiful, and users don't give two shits about memory footprints |
| 22:54.45 | aseigo_h | but nowhere near the benefit one would hope for relative to the effort put into it |
| 22:54.54 | aseigo_h | ... and it was an error prone type of optimization ... |
| 22:55.17 | aseigo_h | Blissex: so on the one hand, i have a lot of empathy to your general position |
| 22:55.23 | Renze | Blissex: both true statements... and the word "infinite" was not mentioned once |
| 22:56.07 | canllaith | omfg |
| 22:56.07 | *** join/#kde Tantalus (~Tantalus@12.124.24.142) |
| 22:56.18 | canllaith | Blissex, are you _still_ talking about memroy ? |
| 22:56.20 | Blissex | Renze: I said "essentially infinite", which I reckon is a fair and accurate paraphrase of " cheap and plentiful, and users don't give two shits about memory footprints" |
| 22:56.27 | Renze | canllaith: you've been missing out on the show :) |
| 22:56.29 | aseigo_h | Blissex: i mean, i spent a lot of time reducing RSS on kicker (which a modicum of success, since i only had so much time) by doing things like consolidating state information and avoiding memory/cpu intensive recalcs when they can be presumed unnecessary |
| 22:56.38 | canllaith | aseigo_h, I told Blissex he was talking crap at like 3am this morning and it is now midday =p |
| 22:56.39 | Renze | Blissex: I disagree |
| 22:56.54 | aseigo_h | Blissex: and it paid off. we went form a flickery toolbar to one that flickers ;-) fast enough you can't see it |
| 22:57.00 | aseigo_h | Blissex: so yes, i'm empathic |
| 22:57.03 | aseigo_h | er, empathetic |
| 22:57.32 | Renze | aseigo_h: what am I feeling right now? :) :) |
| 22:57.40 | Blissex | aseigo_h: but things like "consolidating state information" isz exactly the soredt of stuff I am dreaming about. |
| 22:57.43 | aseigo_h | Blissex: so you can't use your Renze accusation towards me. i'm simply saying that while you start from a good position, you rapidly move into areas you are ignorant about and come off sounding,w ell, ignorant |
| 22:57.49 | aseigo_h | Blissex: did i say it was? |
| 22:58.00 | aseigo_h | Blissex: no, i didn't. thank you |
| 22:58.01 | *** join/#kde bazan_ (~Benjamin@APuteaux-152-1-29-92.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:58.05 | bazan_ | hello |
| 22:58.06 | Blissex | neko: apathy... |
| 22:58.06 | bazan_ | all |
| 22:58.22 | bazan_ | is somebody using magicdev?? |
| 22:58.33 | canllaith | Blissex, do you seriously have so little to do that you have found nothing better in the last 8 hours ? |
| 22:58.40 | aseigo_h | Blissex: and while i could hardly care if you sound brilliant or like a goofball, i do care about people spreading these memes into the general userbase who lack all ability to reason for themselves what's bullshit and what isn't |
| 22:58.47 | neko | yes, the following of the ideal of apathy |
| 22:58.51 | aseigo_h | canllaith: nah, this is just the last 20 mins or so |
| 22:59.05 | Blissex | aseigo_h: you spoiler :-) |
| 22:59.26 | aseigo_h | Blissex: ;-P |
| 22:59.31 | Blissex | canllaith: he is lying -- we have been at it for the last 8 hours without a break :-) |
| 22:59.47 | Blissex | canllaith: but he wont admit it. |
| 22:59.57 | canllaith | Blissex, aha! I knew it! (Funnily enough the idea of aseigo_h arguing for the last 8 hours is one I'm strangely comfortable with) |
| 23:00.16 | aseigo_h | Blissex: i mean really, we can use people with knowledge such as yourself actually working on the code ... which can even mean simply analyzing the actual code ... but please, "actual code" not "what i, Blissex, assumes is there" |
| 23:00.33 | aseigo_h | canllaith: marathon debating. took the trophy twice in three years. |
| 23:00.40 | Blissex | aseigo_h: I am actually trying to say "what should be there" :-) |
| 23:00.55 | aseigo_h | canllaith: the second trophy was for two years, since the debate overlapped between years.. a bit of an overrun |
| 23:01.17 | Renze | Blissex: wouldn't having some knowledge of what "is" there help in knowing what "should be" there? |
| 23:01.19 | aseigo_h | Blissex: yes, and you don't understand what should be there either. this has become evident to me through your conversation. |
| 23:01.50 | AssociateX | anyone know of a howto to compile kde to make it run faster? There are a couple of flags or something you can add at compile time, it's been a while and I cant find it on google |
| 23:01.51 | aseigo_h | Blissex: you understand what should be there, given an accurate understanding of what's needed |
| 23:02.16 | aseigo_h | Blissex: konsole, as the example given, does more than you expect it to. and all of it (with the exception of things like transparency) belongs htere |
| 23:02.27 | Renze | AssociateX: you can tweak optimisations, but seriously, you'd barely notice the difference |
| 23:02.34 | Blissex | aseigo_h: what I am trying to say is that if things has been organized differently the resident bit would be much smaller. |
| 23:02.42 | AssociateX | ok |
| 23:02.48 | canllaith | AssociateX, I don't use any optimisations at all and my KDE flies :) |
| 23:03.05 | canllaith | (as in gentoo and fedora users look at my pc and go shit how is it so fast? It's like a pentium III....) |
| 23:03.13 | Blissex | aseigo_h: I know that the amount of functionality requires the code to be huge, it is just that the subset that is used most at any one point is axctually by necessity pretty small. |
| 23:03.19 | neko | AssociateX, what type of system are you running? |
| 23:03.27 | aseigo_h | Blissex: for certain values of "much smaller"? ;-) really, profile the code and show me what you'd suggest |
| 23:03.44 | AssociateX | neko, athlonxp2800+ with gentoo |
| 23:03.52 | AssociateX | gentoo* |
| 23:03.54 | Blissex | aseigo_h: I would need a memory profiler (which is a very different thing from a CPU profiler), and they just dont quite exists. |
| 23:03.59 | neko | ack, that's a high spec |
| 23:04.11 | straw | heh |
| 23:04.12 | aseigo_h | Blissex: you do know about kcachegrind? |
| 23:04.14 | *** join/#kde marcus000000001 (~marcuuus0@host151-161.pool8251.interbusiness.it) |
| 23:04.23 | neko | do you have lots of other software running? services and the like? |
| 23:04.24 | AssociateX | neko, what do you mean? |
| 23:04.30 | Blissex | aseigo_h: n o, not about that. |
| 23:04.39 | canllaith | LOL oh man AssociateX you could put windows on that machine and it would fly |
| 23:04.41 | aseigo_h | Blissex: i believe there's even another mem skin besides cachegrind for valgrind |
| 23:04.50 | canllaith | I doubt you could do much to make more than a few ms of difference to your KDE |
| 23:05.17 | AssociateX | canllaith, yeah, and that would be ms's of fun, hehe |
| 23:05.22 | canllaith | :P |
| 23:05.25 | marcus000000001 | Hi there |
| 23:05.26 | Renze | AssociateX: stop listening to the ricers, dude :) |
| 23:05.31 | aseigo_h | Blissex: see, with all deference to your obvious years spent in the industry, if you don't know about the memory profiling in valgrind via cachegrind, well .. see,that's what i'm talking about ... you say we don't have the tools, but you don't know what tools we have... |
| 23:05.31 | neko | i don't know much about gentoo and compiling, but would it be possible that setting a wrong compile option would slow things down? anyone? |
| 23:05.42 | AssociateX | Renze, ricers? |
| 23:05.47 | canllaith | Try disabling services that you're not using, and enabling Konqueror's performance boost in the Kcontrol panel (makes it use the same process) |
| 23:05.49 | aseigo_h | Blissex: i'd LOVE to see you get involved with the code ... to go do some research as to the tools we have... |
| 23:05.56 | Blissex | aseigo_h: the problem is that oln x86 it is very very difficult to build any kind of memory access profiler... |
| 23:05.59 | canllaith | Then Konqueror springs open instantly on my 2.4GHz |
| 23:06.07 | aseigo_h | Blissex: and see what sort of analysis of the code you could deliver. i'm sure it would be useful. |
| 23:06.08 | Renze | AssociateX: you know, those kids who spend hours and $$$ making their cars go faster/look cooler |
| 23:06.09 | Blissex | aseigo_h: it is much easier on MIPS for example. |
| 23:06.32 | aseigo_h | then do it on MIPS. do it wherever you feel comfortable. |
| 23:06.50 | AssociateX | Renze, ah, I must fit in that catagory. It's just a hobby though. |
| 23:07.02 | neko | there are worse hobbies |
| 23:07.04 | aseigo_h | but do it or stop expounding |
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| 23:07.41 | aseigo_h | because right now you're pissing me off just as much as those who don't know much about these topics obviously annoy you |
| 23:07.48 | Blissex | aseigo_h: the problem is that retrofitting working set minimization to existing code is often hard. |
| 23:08.11 | aseigo_h | if you aren't gong to do it, fine. |
| 23:08.23 | canllaith | It looks to me like you do not want to be given the opportunity to come up with concrete evidence Blissex |
| 23:08.23 | Blissex | aseigo_h: I hope that it is possible instead that raising awareness of the issues leads people to be more careful in the future. |
| 23:08.33 | aseigo_h | no gun to your head. i just don't get how you can sit there in your armchair and quarterback a game whose players you don't even know. |
| 23:08.45 | *** part/#kde AlanG (~alan@pc-200-74-1-147.san-damian3.pc.metropolis-inter.com) |
| 23:08.46 | canllaith | and your statements are somewhat vague and ambigulous about 'raising awareness' |
| 23:08.49 | Blissex | aseigo_h: I know that is how it feels like though :-) |
| 23:08.55 | aseigo_h | well, you've done a piss poor job of raising awareness, and you'r eout of touch with today's "issues" |
| 23:09.07 | neko | so, erm... penguins are cute aren't they? *looks around desperately* |
| 23:09.24 | Blissex | canllaith: well, some people seem to really believe that memory is "cheap and plentiful" |
| 23:09.24 | aseigo_h | if you wish to raise awareness, write up some essays on what to look for |
| 23:09.30 | canllaith | neko, heh I just made myself a crappy webpage (just to not have to look at the apache dir listing on... a mips, actually) |
| 23:09.49 | aseigo_h | it's not that hard to start from even a completely artificial codebase and document pitfalls and strengths, strategies and mistakes |
| 23:09.56 | Blissex | aseigo_h: I have started trying, l,ong ago, but all those lucky guys with immense PCs couldn't care less. |
| 23:10.00 | neko | i should spend this winter break working on one of my websites |
| 23:10.00 | canllaith | Blissex, you told me last night that your had memory issues on a 256MB machine. 256MB IS plentiful ram and I can only assume you have misconfigured your system, as i have a very heavy workload and mine does fine :) |
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| 23:10.09 | neko | probably the ren'ai games one |
| 23:10.14 | aseigo_h | those things can be useful (very much so, look at waldo's essays a few years back on symbol relocation...) and actualy raise awareness |
| 23:10.26 | canllaith | neko, anyway I used the Konqueror 'image gallery' stylesheet and crystal icons. Very amazing how much of KDE I reused |
| 23:10.38 | marcus000000001 | Hi all, have a wish for future versions of KDE, though I already met opposition...Often I cannot umount cddrives because they are "in use". Tough no program uses them. I have to exit kde to be able to eject them, and is often annoying... Could there be a kind of "forcing" to allow a cd eject anyway ? |
| 23:10.40 | Blissex | canllaith: in part it is 2.6.x crappiness, though. |
| 23:10.49 | canllaith | Blissex, so starting from the premise that you have misconfigured your system so badly it runs like a dog, I am afraid I'm already inclined to disregard what you're saying |
| 23:10.54 | aseigo_h | i mean, waldo's papers were factual and clear and based on the current set of reality. it has resulted in helping along improvements to gcc, the gnu toolchain in general and Qt/KDE libs |
| 23:11.02 | canllaith | Blissex, ah that is even more rubbish. I am also using 2.6 kernels. |
| 23:11.25 | aseigo_h | yammering out one's ass on IRC only fuels the meme's of misconception that wrongly influence new contributors |
| 23:11.33 | sredna | marcus000000001: Whishes should be filed at http://bugs.kde.org |
| 23:11.35 | Blissex | aseigo_h: Those papers I liked, and as I said the KDE performance project has done more than most to do good things. |
| 23:11.41 | canllaith | Your points could make sense if you were able to back them up with the code base examples. Your excuses are just ridiculous. |
| 23:11.46 | *** join/#kde straw (~strawman@stjh1-4603.nb.aliant.net) |
| 23:11.47 | aseigo_h | Blissex: and we need more papers like those =) |
| 23:12.04 | marcus000000001 | I know, but this one seems to be very discutable... |
| 23:12.05 | aseigo_h | Blissex: i look forward to reading yours. ;) |
| 23:12.19 | *** join/#kde floe (~flo@dsl-217-9-59-127.berlikomm.net) |
| 23:12.29 | aseigo_h | marcus000000001: that's OS level issue. and due to how to file watches are handled by the linux kernel. |
| 23:12.53 | aseigo_h | marcus000000001: it'll eventually get fixed, though ... ppl are looking at ways to work around / fix it effectively |
| 23:12.58 | Blissex | aseigo_h: what I think we really need is an edict that says that all core Linux/KDE developers are not allowed any PC faster than a celeron 333 with 64MB of RAM for the next year or two :-) |
| 23:13.09 | canllaith | marcus000000001, a short term fix is to kill konqueror (it's usually konqueror) |
| 23:13.30 | canllaith | Blissex, what you mean like the machine I hack on KDE docs on day in and day out? =p |
| 23:13.43 | aseigo_h | Blissex: yes, that way development would slow by 10x because compiles would take for ever and we couldn't run debug builds.... and history shows that smaller hardware has certainly led to non-bloated development |
| 23:13.44 | Blissex | canllaith: yes, that would be perfect. |
| 23:13.57 | canllaith | Blissex, well let me tell you this machine is impossible to compile on |
| 23:14.05 | canllaith | Even just running checkXML and meinproc takes forever |
| 23:14.14 | Blissex | canllaith: too bad :-) |
| 23:14.20 | canllaith | I spend more time waiting than I do writing, and so I now send all cpu intensive tasks to another machine |
| 23:14.38 | canllaith | Blissex, no, it is to fucking bad for you because if you make it difficult for me to help develop KDE for you I will go elsewhere |
| 23:14.39 | canllaith | :) |
| 23:14.47 | neko | maybe alter that so that the core developers have a main system to work on and a low power system to test on |
| 23:14.52 | marcus000000001 | canllaith, lol ok thanks, I'll try that out next time! |
| 23:14.58 | aseigo_h | neko: which is what i generally do =) |
| 23:15.00 | canllaith | marcus000000001, heh do you know the fuser command? :) |
| 23:15.01 | neko | going to donate the extra machines to the core developers Blissex ? |
| 23:15.06 | Blissex | aseigo_h: you see all these clever guys just need a very personal incentive to make things fast :-) |
| 23:15.36 | aseigo_h | neko: would be very nice if there was a coordinated "developer hardware package donation" system put together to get people proper combinations of H/W.. including some 64bit systems to ensure that's good too |
| 23:15.38 | marcus000000001 | canllaith, uhmm... is this some newbie moking joke or serious ? :D |
| 23:15.43 | canllaith | marcus000000001, quite serious :) |
| 23:15.50 | marcus000000001 | ok then, well, no |
| 23:15.58 | canllaith | marcus000000001, next time it happens type in 'fuser /mnt/cdrom' and it will give you pid's of the programs accessing it |
| 23:16.06 | marcus000000001 | ah great! |
| 23:16.13 | marcus000000001 | I was looking for something like that |
| 23:16.16 | neko | aseigo: i use a similar principle for my web coding. i have my linux machine and then i also test the results on a lesser IE machine ;o) |
| 23:16.19 | canllaith | Then you can check that pid, find out that it's konqueror ..... |
| 23:16.22 | canllaith | ;) |
| 23:16.23 | marcus000000001 | thanks! |
| 23:16.26 | Blissex | neko: I occasionally donate hw to poor developers, but I would definitely help get Torvalds, Cox and others a smaller PC. |
| 23:16.29 | canllaith | and kill it =p |
| 23:16.40 | canllaith | yw marcus000000001 lsof is another good one too, it lists 'open files' on that device |
| 23:16.47 | neko | i'm poor ;o) |
| 23:16.55 | marcus000000001 | ok I'm taking notes right now :) |
| 23:16.59 | canllaith | hehehe marcus000000001 |
| 23:17.00 | Blissex | neko: so you would say :-) |
| 23:17.13 | neko | i only have 1 working system at present... |
| 23:17.16 | canllaith | but yeah, so you end up with this pid of say 2345, then ps ax | grep 2345 and see what it is. |
| 23:17.17 | neko | <.<;; |
| 23:17.43 | canllaith | usually it is konqueror because you have used it to access the files and the process that did so is still cached in memory not releasing lock |
| 23:18.00 | Renze | neko: yeah, I should fix up my monitor stand :) |
| 23:18.09 | aseigo_h | canllaith: too much so=( |
| 23:18.43 | aseigo_h | canllaith: they really need to implement file-handle-less file/dir watches |
| 23:18.46 | canllaith | aseigo_h, would it be possible/desirable to see what can be done about making Konqueror work around this and kill the process itself ? |
| 23:18.46 | Blissex | I am going to repost the top X lines of my currently running processes by resident size in #flood in a couple of minutes -- if anyhbody wants to comment... |
| 23:18.46 | marcus000000001 | canllaith, and there is no clean way to "unlock" ? |
| 23:19.02 | canllaith | marcus000000001, killing the pid is 'clean' enough as long as you do not kill -9 it |
| 23:19.17 | canllaith | kill by itself sends a 'please close now :)' signal just like a normal exit |
| 23:19.41 | marcus000000001 | ok :) |
| 23:21.17 | canllaith | mmm that's probably an faq really |
| 23:21.25 | Blissex | actually web thingie here: http://WWW.sabi.co.UK/xirc/htop.txt |
| 23:23.28 | canllaith | anyone else think the konq-hogging-cdrom is a faq ? |
| 23:24.06 | canllaith | any takers? We can throw in cameras too and get two for the price of one, any bidders? Come on ladies and gentleman it's the opportunity of a lifetime.... two faq for the price of one, step right up..... |
| 23:24.42 | *** join/#kde linuxisgood (~linuxisgo@pD954B594.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:27.20 | aseigo_h | canllaith: lol |
| 23:28.48 | sredna | aseigo: Nifty animation in kicker |
| 23:29.24 | aseigo_h | =) |
| 23:29.33 | aseigo_h | sredna: you like? |
| 23:29.55 | marcus000000001 | btw, anyone ever saw a place where autoconf-2.57b is available ? |
| 23:29.56 | sredna | aseigo_h: It's very fancy, and I'd probably enable it for kde newcomers |
| 23:30.10 | sredna | aseigo_h: I'll not use it myself thoug |
| 23:30.18 | canllaith | marcus000000001, may I ask why you want to know? |
| 23:30.23 | marcus000000001 | or a way to install the last version of autoconf without having the older ones |
| 23:30.29 | marcus000000001 | well I have autoconf 2.57 |
| 23:30.36 | aseigo_h | sredna: did you use the icon zooming previously? |
| 23:30.37 | marcus000000001 | I need to update to 2.58 |
| 23:30.42 | canllaith | ah that is easy |
| 23:30.48 | marcus000000001 | but when installing 2.58 it asks for 2.57b |
| 23:30.53 | canllaith | :| |
| 23:30.59 | canllaith | autoconf is all self contained |
| 23:31.06 | sredna | aseigo_h: No, and for the same reasons - they just take up my time and moves my focus away from what I do |
| 23:31.11 | marcus000000001 | and cannot find a place where 2.57b is downloadable |
| 23:31.20 | canllaith | "The configuration scripts produced by Autoconf are self-contained, so their users do not need to have Autoconf (or GNU m4)." |
| 23:31.38 | marcus000000001 | well still I get this message: |
| 23:31.38 | aseigo_h | sredna: =) cool then... i'm more concerned about the "icon zooming" users migration |
| 23:31.43 | sredna | aseigo_h: But they never looked nearly as nice |
| 23:31.52 | canllaith | marcus000000001, http://www.gnu.org/software/autoconf/ <-- did you get it from there? |
| 23:32.02 | marcus000000001 | yes |
| 23:32.03 | aseigo_h | sredna: rather, i'm really glad it's appealing... my big concern is how they will perceive it |
| 23:32.13 | marcus000000001 | configure.ac:32: error: Autoconf version 2.57b or higher is required |
| 23:32.14 | marcus000000001 | aclocal.m4:207: AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE is expanded from... |
| 23:32.14 | marcus000000001 | configure.ac:32: the top level |
| 23:32.40 | sredna | aseigo_h: Judging from the recent debate regarding the listview sort column, some will yell, but most people will adjust |
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| 23:33.20 | aseigo_h | sredna: likely =) |
| 23:33.44 | *** join/#kde dec0ding (~binarian@62.162.233.80) |
| 23:33.48 | aseigo_h | sredna: i've had only two nays so far... which is pretty good i think. lots of happy people though=) |
| 23:33.50 | sredna | aseigo_h: I find that the added information is a big plus, a reason that I'll enable that in my guest account for example, for my guests to be able ot better see what their buttons does |
| 23:33.56 | *** part/#kde Broca (~arj@thx1138.nvg.ntnu.no) |
| 23:34.03 | aseigo_h | yes, that was one of the primary goals |
| 23:34.12 | aseigo_h | "look good, be useful, be unique" |
| 23:34.52 | canllaith | You're so cute when you preen |
| 23:35.28 | marcus000000001 | Btw, canllaith, just tried out fuser, works great, thanks! (and it was a program called "pam" using the cdrom) |
| 23:35.42 | canllaith | ahhhhhh! Yes! It does that. |
| 23:36.00 | canllaith | well good to know you have a workaround lol |
| 23:36.12 | marcus000000001 | yes thanks a lot! |
| 23:36.14 | canllaith | autoconf I am stumped. It should not require another autoconf version.... |
| 23:36.28 | marcus000000001 | yes especially one that is unfindable |
| 23:41.12 | marcus000000001 | uhm is there a way of deleting autconf, and then reinstalling a new version ? |
| 23:42.37 | canllaith | what distro ? |
| 23:42.49 | canllaith | unless it's lfs yes, through your packaging system |
| 23:42.55 | marcus000000001 | f core 1 |
| 23:43.07 | canllaith | rpm -q autoconf |
| 23:43.10 | marcus000000001 | ah some good news |
| 23:43.18 | canllaith | rpm -e rpm |
| 23:43.24 | canllaith | where 'rpm' is the name the query gives you :) |
| 23:43.26 | marcus000000001 | ok but I'll have to find a rpm version of 2.58 right ? |
| 23:43.42 | canllaith | chances are you can install the fedora core 3 version....... |
| 23:43.46 | canllaith | or any other rpm from rpmfind |
| 23:43.48 | marcus000000001 | yes well I learned using rpms ^^ |
| 23:43.54 | marcus000000001 | uhm ok |
| 23:44.30 | marcus000000001 | would it be coming from there ? I have an rpm version of autoconf and therefore mixes up source files ? |
| 23:44.49 | canllaith | ummm no idea mate |
| 23:45.01 | marcus000000001 | ok thanks anyway :) |
| 23:45.12 | marcus000000001 | * isn't lucky |
| 23:45.15 | marcus000000001 | oups |
| 23:45.24 | marcus000000001 | well never mind ^^ |
| 23:45.34 | marcus000000001 | ok I'll have a look on #fedora |
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| 23:54.21 | *** join/#kde SuperLag (~aaron@SuperLag.developer.gentoo) |
