| 00:00.01 | *** join/#kde Manu` (n=Manu@211.253.124.55) |
| 00:00.23 | Q-collective | :) |
| 00:00.41 | bkudria | I actually think kubuntu is quite nice |
| 00:00.51 | bkudria | Sutoka: and what do you use, play tell? |
| 00:01.13 | Sutoka | Gentoo on my desktop, and SuSE on my laptop, im not really happy with the SuSE installation though |
| 00:01.41 | bkudria | aha, i notice that it *is* possible to have two instances of the taskbar applet |
| 00:01.43 | bkudria | sweet |
| 00:02.04 | Q-collective | why would you want that? |
| 00:02.33 | bkudria | Q-collective: so i can have one on one monitor, and one on the other, of course |
| 00:02.57 | Q-collective | right |
| 00:03.39 | bkudria | although not the system tray, i notice... |
| 00:04.09 | bkudria | strange |
| 00:04.18 | Sutoka | system tray icons are actually windows |
| 00:04.54 | *** join/#kde psychollek (i=adam@c113-220.icpnet.pl) |
| 00:05.04 | bkudria | Sutoka: that makes sense |
| 00:05.11 | bkudria | grr, that sarcasm thing again |
| 00:05.12 | Sutoka | with AIGLX and the X Input Redirection extension it would be possible to have multiple system trays actually (afaik) |
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| 00:05.34 | Sutoka | what sarcasm? |
| 00:05.50 | bkudria | err, the making sense bit, i guess |
| 00:07.10 | bkudria | anyway, thanks for telling me... |
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| 00:16.56 | scast | ?? dashinho |
| 00:16.57 | DDB | scast: dashinho: Guy with a nationality issue: "am I a Venezuelan? A Brazilian? A South-American? What is nationality anyway? Who am I? What am I? Do I want to know?" |
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| 00:56.19 | ejm | good, that darned windows bot isn't on. |
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| 01:01.18 | Sho_ | ejm: darned windows bot? |
| 01:01.42 | ejm | there was one on #kde last night |
| 01:01.50 | ejm | by the name on winrock |
| 01:01.53 | ejm | I think. |
| 01:02.06 | Renze | that wasn't a bot, it was a troll |
| 01:02.20 | ejm | same thing almost eh? |
| 01:02.22 | Renze | a bot would have been more clever :) |
| 01:03.58 | ejm | Is there some liscence that keeps Microsoft from using KDE on windows? |
| 01:04.00 | Jucato | a troll that ceased to exist once it was starved to death :) |
| 01:04.09 | Jucato | ejm: other way around |
| 01:04.39 | Jucato | something to do with Qt3's licensing, afaik |
| 01:04.47 | Jucato | hi Sho_, Renze :) |
| 01:04.47 | Sutoka | part of KDE4 is probably gonna be ported to windows |
| 01:05.00 | Renze | 'lo Jucato |
| 01:05.03 | Sutoka | Jucato: Qt3's licenses only had the X11 version gpl/qpl |
| 01:05.12 | fred87 | *qpl/gpl ? |
| 01:05.21 | ejm | yeah, I think I've used part of Kontact on windows. |
| 01:05.32 | Jucato | GPL = GNU Public License, QPL = Qt Public License |
| 01:05.37 | ejm | and KTips |
| 01:05.55 | Renze | GPL = General Public License, no? |
| 01:06.01 | Jucato | lol... |
| 01:06.03 | Jucato | sorry :) |
| 01:06.07 | Jucato | GNU GPL |
| 01:06.22 | Sho_ | Renze: yup |
| 01:06.30 | stoned | Girls Por Lesbians |
| 01:06.32 | Renze | thought so ;) |
| 01:06.32 | fred87 | jucato/renze, I meant "was qpl/gpl meant instead of gpl/gpl" as I misread stuoka's line as gpl/gpl :P |
| 01:06.47 | Jucato | hehe |
| 01:06.55 | Jucato | Sutoka said gpl/qpl :) |
| 01:07.02 | Jucato | maybe he should have capitalized them :P |
| 01:07.05 | stoned | Renze, k |
| 01:07.44 | stoned | Sutoka, do you smoke weed? |
| 01:07.50 | Jucato | of course, the porting of KDE apps to win32 still depends if someone would do the porting. I know Sho_ wouldn't :P |
| 01:07.53 | Sutoka | that would require effort |
| 01:08.02 | *** join/#kde foreboy (n=foreboy@amarok/developer/foreboy) |
| 01:08.08 | stoned | Sutoka, you suck |
| 01:08.13 | Jucato | or someone else to do it :) |
| 01:08.18 | ejm | I admire people who try to port kde to win32. |
| 01:08.25 | stoned | I pity them |
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| 01:08.43 | Jucato | ejm: in some cases, porting KDE apps to win32 might be harmful to KDE. in some cases, it would be beneficial |
| 01:08.59 | Jucato | I'm sure that porting KOffice to win32 would be beneficial :) |
| 01:09.34 | ejm | oh yeah...KOffice on win32!!! |
| 01:09.53 | ejm | I tried MS office 2007, and KOffice would blow it away in a heartbeat! |
| 01:10.06 | stoned | office 07 has not been released |
| 01:10.10 | stoned | beta sucks |
| 01:10.13 | ejm | It was a beta version. |
| 01:11.18 | ejm | People say that KDE can use lots of ram....they have no idea how much vista makes KDE seem really fast. |
| 01:11.47 | Renze | users don't care... they just buy a computer and use whatever is installed on it already. |
| 01:11.57 | Jucato | most people who say that KDE/Linux use lots of ram don't know how Linux handles RAM. although up front value, GNOME *used to* start up faster |
| 01:12.12 | ejm | yeah, it used to be a bit faster. |
| 01:12.17 | ejm | not by much. |
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| 01:12.22 | sunque | hello |
| 01:13.11 | Jucato | I still find it weird that GNOME and KDE play the "startup" sound at different times. (or maybe my system just lags...) |
| 01:13.34 | ejm | I've never payed that much attention. |
| 01:13.56 | qupada | mine doesn't play it at all, and i prefer it that way |
| 01:14.06 | Sho_ | qupada: ditto |
| 01:14.09 | Jucato | iirc, GNOME plays the startup immediately after the splash screen. KDE plays it much later |
| 01:14.32 | Jucato | oh well :) |
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| 01:15.24 | Sho_ | Jucato: Actually, it usually starts playing towards the end of the splash screen animation. Although that may depend on the splash screen. And after the startup sequence reordering in 3.5.3, I'm not actually sure anymore, I haven't listened to a 3.5.3+ system playing a startup sound yet. |
| 01:16.20 | Jucato | ah |
| 01:16.46 | ejm | My suse order finally came in today. |
| 01:16.57 | Jucato | maybe when I get my Linux box back (tongue twister?) I'll ask about making the startup sound play after a specific app as launched... |
| 01:16.57 | ejm | I ordered it a month ago, and it finally came. |
| 01:17.26 | Jucato | er... |
| 01:17.39 | Jucato | they released the respinned CD's a few days ago... |
| 01:17.53 | ejm | yeah, I have the old cds I think. |
| 01:18.38 | Jucato | yeah... sucks... I finished downloading and burning the 5 CD's, and a few days (well almost more than a week) later, the respinned CD's werw announced.. |
| 01:19.11 | Sho_ | 1 DVD > 5 CDs |
| 01:19.18 | ejm | I'm going to install 10.1 on my desktop. It's running 9.3 and xp. |
| 01:19.42 | ejm | The dvds/cds that I tried didn't work, so I just ordered it for the heck of it. |
| 01:19.43 | Jucato | but the longest part is really the downloading... |
| 01:20.51 | Sho_ | I actually installed my first SuSE in a couple of years the other day, the 10.1 Remastered version. I was unable to comprehend YaST's package management UI and everything spewed obscure error dialogs, so I gave up pretty quickly. Somehow I have a feeling that after the Novell acquisition, a lot in that distro is in a state of limbo, with several competing toolsets strung together haphazardly. |
| 01:21.10 | ejm | yes, Sho_, |
| 01:21.21 | Sho_ | For example, YaST would spew obscure errors about not being able to synchronize with ZenWorks, presumably package manabement tools from the Novell/Ximian side. |
| 01:21.22 | ejm | I keep thinking of Red Hat and Fedora. |
| 01:21.39 | ejm | YaST is good for editing the /etc/sysconfig file |
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| 01:21.50 | ejm | No other distro that I know of has it. |
| 01:22.12 | sunque | does anyone use korganizer over imap? everything else runs fine over imap except korganizer it tells me im unable to save event, when i do see it saved on the server however theres this error in the console kresources: ERROR: Communication problem in ResourceKolab::addIncidence(), i dont have kolab on the server |
| 01:22.19 | Sho_ | I use Gentoo and Kubuntu, personally ... more my cup of tea :) |
| 01:22.44 | ejm | Gentoo is one distro I haven't got to install the right way. |
| 01:22.59 | ejm | Mabye I would if I ordered a manual and stuff from the Gentoo store. |
| 01:23.00 | sunque | i use gentoo |
| 01:23.08 | Sho_ | Jucato: Why's that courageous? ;) |
| 01:23.22 | Kyral | LFS is one "distro" that I haven't gotten to install right :P |
| 01:23.28 | sunque | gentoo is source based distro so .. you need time. |
| 01:23.38 | Jucato | Sho_: last time I mentioned that... well let's just say it wasn't really peaceful and pretty :) |
| 01:23.49 | Sho_ | Jucato: Curious ;) |
| 01:23.52 | sunque | i hear great things about suse and everything just "works" out of the box |
| 01:24.06 | *** join/#kde cunzhang (n=cunzhang@218.7.43.198) |
| 01:24.13 | Jucato | I've only installed MEPIS 6 other than _____ so far |
| 01:24.24 | Jucato | I installed PCLOS but it didn't last more than a few days |
| 01:24.33 | ejm | it does work out of the box, if you have an nvidia card, and don't really use wifi. And don't have ati video cards. |
| 01:24.38 | Jucato | MEPIS lasted more than 2 weeks :) |
| 01:24.38 | cunzhang | why my automount can't work? I have installed pmount , dbus and hal |
| 01:25.01 | sunque | yeh |
| 01:25.11 | Sho_ | sunque: I've had a good "just works" experience with Kubuntu on my Apple iBook G4, personally. Everything worked immediately, including model-specific keyboard functions, suspend, power magement, etc. |
| 01:25.13 | Renze | cunzhang: and dbus and hal have been started? |
| 01:25.24 | sunque | cool |
| 01:25.35 | cunzhang | Renze, 1943 ? 00:00:00 dbus-daemon |
| 01:25.51 | Renze | cunzhang: and hald? |
| 01:25.54 | cunzhang | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:25.56 | sunque | man im having a hard time with korganizer |
| 01:26.14 | cunzhang | Renze, 2 dbus-daemon |
| 01:26.20 | sunque | we had to go back to a hand diary |
| 01:26.21 | Sho_ | sunque: Never tried IMAP storage for Korganizer, sorry .. |
| 01:26.36 | sunque | remote" |
| 01:26.36 | Renze | cunzhang: what distro, and what version of KDE? |
| 01:26.43 | cunzhang | and a dbus-launch,a hald-runner |
| 01:26.47 | cunzhang | Renze, debian sid |
| 01:26.52 | sunque | we stored remote...ooh nasty..globberd |
| 01:26.56 | sunque | clobbered |
| 01:27.10 | Renze | cunzhang: I know next to nothing about debian, sorry |
| 01:27.16 | cunzhang | Renze, kde 3.5.5 |
| 01:27.47 | cunzhang | Renze, but I think all is the same for automount of KDE is it wrong? |
| 01:28.06 | Renze | cunzhang: it depends if KDE has been built with HAL support or not |
| 01:28.15 | odla | Renze: he's running sid |
| 01:28.17 | sunque | and you might need pmount |
| 01:28.24 | Renze | odla: that means nothing to me |
| 01:28.26 | cunzhang | hi, odla |
| 01:28.29 | odla | debian sid |
| 01:28.38 | odla | hi |
| 01:28.40 | Sho_ | Renze: Sid is the codename for the "unstable" branch of Debian |
| 01:28.41 | Renze | odla: still means nothing to me |
| 01:28.51 | Renze | ah ok |
| 01:28.54 | cunzhang | Renze, but others is ok |
| 01:29.57 | Renze | cunzhang: I don't know how debian packages KDE... it could be a missing package, but that would just be a guess |
| 01:29.57 | Sho_ | Renze: Debian has three branches: stable (currently sarge), testing (currently etch) and unstable (currently sid). New stuff goes into unstable, and migrates into testing after a certain period without problem reports. Eventually, every couple of years, testing is released as stable. Etch (current testing) is supposed to become stable in December, at which point sid will become testing. |
| 01:30.12 | odla | i have no issues automounting in KDE with debian unstable |
| 01:30.33 | Renze | odla: then you can try and help cunzhang :) |
| 01:30.39 | odla | Sho_: almost true...sid will always be unstable...there will be a new codename for testing |
| 01:30.47 | odla | Renze: i can't cause it 'just worked' for me |
| 01:30.54 | cunzhang | Renze, should I install another packages? |
| 01:31.17 | odla | cunzhang: you could try aptitude install kde and get all the kde packages and maybe that'll bring in the other stuff to |
| 01:31.18 | odla | o |
| 01:31.29 | Renze | cunzhang: I don't know, I don't use debian |
| 01:31.40 | Sho_ | odla: oh, okay .. |
| 01:31.41 | cunzhang | Renze, thank you :) |
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| 01:32.24 | sunque | cunzhang: does the device show up in hal and dbus monitors? |
| 01:32.41 | odla | cunzhang: try: apt-cache policy kdebase-kio-plugins |
| 01:32.45 | odla | cunzhang: is that installed? |
| 01:32.53 | sunque | its kioslaves |
| 01:33.10 | sunque | i dunno about sid actually |
| 01:33.17 | Renze | holy crap... kmail rebuild is chewing through RAM like ravioli at a mafia gathering |
| 01:33.33 | cunzhang | odla, 4:3.5.5a-2 |
| 01:33.39 | sunque | whats proko2? |
| 01:33.57 | odla | cunzhang: does it say it's installed? |
| 01:34.06 | cunzhang | sunque, how can I see it? |
| 01:34.16 | cunzhang | odla, yes it is installed |
| 01:34.37 | odla | cunzhang: have you tried rebooting and seeing what happens? |
| 01:34.48 | Renze | rewhat? |
| 01:35.02 | odla | he he |
| 01:35.05 | cunzhang | odla, what is it in /etc/default/hal? |
| 01:35.08 | odla | you mean this isn't windows? |
| 01:35.40 | odla | cunzhang: DAEMON_OPTS= |
| 01:35.46 | cunzhang | odla, me too |
| 01:36.22 | odla | ok |
| 01:36.24 | sunque | bah i think i need kde-pim-proko2 builds |
| 01:36.26 | sunque | :/ |
| 01:39.40 | *** join/#kde cunzhang (n=cunzhang@218.7.43.198) |
| 01:39.48 | cunzhang | odla, nothing happened |
| 01:40.03 | odla | cunzhang: do you have kdemultimedia-kio-plugins installed? |
| 01:40.30 | *** join/#kde braKs (n=braKs@ip68-12-218-39.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 01:40.56 | cunzhang | enables the browsing of audio CDs under Konqueror |
| 01:40.57 | cunzhang | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:40.57 | cunzhang | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:41.17 | odla | cunzhang: does it say it's installed? |
| 01:41.36 | cunzhang | odla, it does not dependend it |
| 01:41.41 | cunzhang | odla, no |
| 01:41.47 | odla | cunzhang: are you in the plugdev group? |
| 01:42.06 | odla | cunzhang: type groups at a command prompt |
| 01:42.25 | cunzhang | odla, just cunzhang |
| 01:42.30 | *** join/#kde [GALAXY] (n=galaxy@p5481DB87.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:42.36 | odla | cunzhang: you're not in plugdev? |
| 01:42.41 | odla | then that's are answer :) |
| 01:42.53 | cunzhang | odla, yes i am not |
| 01:43.07 | odla | cunzhang: add yourself to group plugdev :) |
| 01:43.27 | odla | cunzhang: vi /etc/group |
| 01:43.38 | odla | cunzhang: plugdev:x:46:cunzhang |
| 01:43.46 | odla | cunzhang: you might want to add yourself to other groups too |
| 01:43.54 | cunzhang | odla, I have addgroup cunzhang into plugdev |
| 01:44.04 | odla | cunzhang: yeah as root |
| 01:44.21 | cunzhang | odla, root also into |
| 01:44.50 | cunzhang | Should I restart my comuter or KDE? |
| 01:44.52 | odla | cunzhang: lontra dialout cdrom floppy audio video plugdev <- those are the groups i'm in...you might want to add yourself to those too |
| 01:45.15 | odla | cunzhang: well probably restarting X is fine...but if you're computer reboots quickly...why not reboot it :) |
| 01:45.26 | cunzhang | :) |
| 01:45.41 | odla | and cross your fingers |
| 01:45.49 | *** join/#kde PsyTec (i=lisa@64.18.146.82) |
| 01:48.03 | odla | digikam is pretty nice, i don't miss f-spot anymore |
| 01:49.45 | *** join/#kde cunzhang (n=cunzhang@218.7.43.198) |
| 01:50.33 | sunque | odla: your not long on linux are you :) |
| 01:50.59 | odla | i've been using linux for 3.5 years |
| 01:51.06 | odla | cunzhang: great! |
| 01:51.08 | cunzhang | Renze, sunque it is ok |
| 01:51.18 | sunque | not long |
| 01:51.23 | Jucato | whew finally :) |
| 01:51.26 | cunzhang | odla, but how do u know that? |
| 01:51.34 | odla | cunzhang: know what? |
| 01:51.43 | odla | cunzhang: to add you to plugdev? |
| 01:51.44 | cunzhang | odla, user into plugdev |
| 01:51.52 | cunzhang | odla, yes |
| 01:51.55 | Jucato | from experience probably :) |
| 01:52.18 | *** join/#kde TeaSea (n=thunderc@82.152.215.14) |
| 01:52.20 | odla | cunzhang: |
| 01:52.20 | odla | To use this |
| 01:52.20 | odla | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:52.20 | odla | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:52.23 | cunzhang | thank u , odla , Renze and sunque for your help :) |
| 01:52.36 | odla | cunzhang: that's from apt-cache show kdebase-kio-plugin :) |
| 01:52.42 | cunzhang | odla, ^_^ |
| 01:52.52 | Renze | almost 8 years for me |
| 01:53.10 | odla | the only reason i even use windows is for ArcGIS |
| 01:53.19 | Jucato | yay! /me is a baby then |
| 01:53.21 | Jucato | 10 months :P |
| 01:53.24 | Renze | I haven't used windows for almost 8 years |
| 01:53.27 | *** join/#kde Sutoka (n=sutoka@pool-72-78-227-250.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 01:53.37 | odla | Renze: i won't use it again after i finish my Master's :) |
| 01:53.57 | odla | i will burn ArcGIS! |
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| 01:54.09 | somekool_ | hello |
| 01:54.10 | sunque | my last windows distro was win98 |
| 01:54.15 | Renze | I did all my university work in Linux |
| 01:54.17 | cunzhang | Renze, but so many webpage dependent on IE |
| 01:54.33 | Renze | cunzhang: those are bad webpahes |
| 01:54.35 | Renze | pages* |
| 01:54.38 | qupada | no websites worth visiting |
| 01:54.49 | somekool_ | Des francophones present? J'aimerais savoir si cest possible de faire fonctionner un dictionnaire francais dans kword et a travers KDE. |
| 01:55.00 | odla | Renze: i can do almost all of it just not GIS. for stats I use R |
| 01:55.01 | Renze | english only, please |
| 01:55.13 | cunzhang | Renze, yeah. but I can't leave it because I need it to choose my courses |
| 01:55.14 | sunque | i got a bad feeling in need proko2 for proper imap functionality on kontact :( |
| 01:55.25 | sunque | and theres no ebuilds for it :( |
| 01:55.31 | *** join/#kde sorush20 (n=sorush20@82-43-184-143.cable.ubr07.newm.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 01:55.40 | Renze | cunzhang: I chose my courses using Konqueror |
| 01:55.51 | sorush20 | hi is this a crash it happens everytime I'm running a wine program |
| 01:55.54 | sorush20 | http://pastebin.ca/210818 |
| 01:55.57 | Sutoka | IE works in wine |
| 01:56.15 | sunque | wine |
| 01:56.16 | Theory | somekool_: oui, si vous avez la vrai "package" pour francais installee, vous pouvez choississez francais dans 'kcontrol' |
| 01:56.19 | odla | konqi is so great. it's so fast |
| 01:56.24 | Jucato | ies4linux |
| 01:56.37 | Sutoka | just install wine, then install IE, its not hard |
| 01:56.42 | cunzhang | I like using konqueror too |
| 01:57.07 | qupada | or just don't install IE and bitch at the owner of the site until they fix it |
| 01:57.14 | somekool_ | Theory: en faites, j'ecris tres souvent en anglais et en francais, donc jaimerais etre capable de faire le switch assez rapidement, sans avoir a passer par kcontrol. |
| 01:57.16 | sunque | Sutoka: no |
| 01:57.19 | odla | it starts up under 1 second here :) |
| 01:57.34 | sunque | sorush20: what distro? your saying wine crashes kde? |
| 01:57.44 | somekool_ | Theory: connais tu le nom de ce package dont jai besoin pour le dictionaire francais dans kword? |
| 01:57.50 | qupada | Renze: you're having fun with it too? |
| 01:57.50 | odla | Renze: gentoo? |
| 01:57.56 | Sutoka | Renze: maybe MAKEOPTS="-j4" is a bad idea? ;-) |
| 01:57.59 | Renze | of course |
| 01:58.13 | Renze | Sutoka: I'm not that silly :P |
| 01:58.28 | Renze | qupada: it's pissing me off |
| 01:58.28 | sunque | i only got a duron750 here |
| 01:58.32 | Sutoka | MAKEOPTS="-j3" + USE=kdeenablefinal? |
| 01:58.44 | sunque | so i distcc so i can use some athlon in another office |
| 01:58.47 | Renze | -j2 and kdeenablefinal |
| 01:58.47 | Theory | somekool_: en kword vous pouvez dire quelle langue vous voulez utilizer avec chaque 'style' (je ne sais pas le mot francais) |
| 01:59.06 | somekool_ | cool |
| 01:59.11 | somekool_ | style == style |
| 01:59.24 | Renze | it's all greek to me |
| 01:59.26 | qupada | Renze: the only way to solve it is to close as many apps as you can to empty as much as you can from physical ram |
| 01:59.30 | sunque | mulaka |
| 01:59.45 | Sutoka | Renze: like Konversation |
| 01:59.46 | qupada | otherwise it's going to be sitting there for 10 minutes looking like it's killed itself |
| 01:59.53 | Renze | qupada: I'll just wait... but don't be surprised if I lag off or don't respond quickly |
| 02:00.00 | somekool_ | Theory: ton francais est excellent, aucune escuse a faire. |
| 02:00.13 | Theory | somekool_: essayer le package 'ifrench' (c'est sa sous debian, je ne connassais pas avec les autre) |
| 02:00.36 | Renze | bloody frogs ;) |
| 02:01.12 | qupada | Renze: i was unfortunate, i had a vmware VM running at the time, and my system just as a matter of course runs a lot of services |
| 02:01.20 | Theory | I've barely spoken a word in french in years, need to organise a holiday soon I think :-) |
| 02:01.22 | *** join/#kde Quaru (n=nick@logik.resnet.mtu.edu) |
| 02:02.15 | Renze | Q'aplah! |
| 02:02.32 | Jucato | lol |
| 02:02.39 | Sutoka | its all feringi to me |
| 02:03.34 | *** join/#kde bsnider (n=brandon@216.167.240.52) |
| 02:03.51 | *** join/#kde braKs (n=braKs@ip68-12-218-39.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 02:04.03 | cunzhang | odla, Feature only available with HAL |
| 02:04.14 | odla | cunzhang: pardon? |
| 02:04.35 | Sutoka | that was random |
| 02:04.51 | cunzhang | odla ,still can't work |
| 02:05.02 | odla | cunzhang: i thought you said it worked? |
| 02:05.29 | cunzhang | odla, all device appear but can't come in |
| 02:05.39 | odla | cunzhang: you mean you can't open them? |
| 02:05.52 | cunzhang | odla, yes I just try |
| 02:06.22 | odla | cunzhang: what happens when you click on one of the icons? |
| 02:06.24 | cunzhang | system:/media is not empty but devices can't be used |
| 02:06.41 | odla | cunzhang: if you launch konqueror as root can you access these devices? |
| 02:06.45 | sunque | so not many people use kontact/kmail over imap? |
| 02:06.49 | cunzhang | odla, it say Feature only available with HAL |
| 02:06.55 | Renze | yay, I got some ram back - now to swap some stuff back in :) |
| 02:07.04 | sunque | cunzhang: pmount? |
| 02:07.20 | Sutoka | sunque: i use kmail with imap |
| 02:07.25 | odla | well i don't have hal-device-manager instaleld |
| 02:07.37 | sunque | Sutoka: calendar? |
| 02:07.51 | Sutoka | Renze: if you want to stop swapping, just type "swapoff -a" and it'll make everything all better! :-D |
| 02:07.56 | Sutoka | sunque: no, just kmail |
| 02:08.00 | sunque | ahh |
| 02:08.01 | Renze | Sutoka: um, ha, or something |
| 02:08.33 | Sutoka | ow my seeing eye! |
| 02:08.45 | Sutoka | at least it wasn't my winking eye... |
| 02:09.09 | Theory | surely winking with one eye is impossible... |
| 02:09.12 | sunque | brown eye |
| 02:09.55 | Renze | sunque: don't point that thing at me :D |
| 02:11.13 | sunque | sory |
| 02:11.25 | *** join/#kde cunzhang (n=root@218.7.43.198) |
| 02:11.44 | *** part/#kde sniffy96 (n=chris@d141-245-59.home.cgocable.net) |
| 02:12.17 | sunque | or maybe this version of kontact has all the kolab stuff built into it which i dont need or want |
| 02:12.19 | cunzhang | odla, system:/media is empty as root |
| 02:12.21 | sunque | i duno :( |
| 02:12.27 | sunque | cunzhang: pmount? |
| 02:12.38 | cunzhang | odla, root have into plugdev |
| 02:12.57 | sunque | root doesnt have to be in groups |
| 02:12.58 | odla | cunzhang: maybe...try and ask this question i #debian-kde and see if you get some response too |
| 02:12.59 | sunque | root pwns |
| 02:13.55 | cunzhang | Renze, u can make it yourself :) |
| 02:14.07 | Renze | I don't have a printer |
| 02:14.08 | sunque | and on the back "yacc" |
| 02:14.29 | Renze | sunque: no... "grep" with an arrow pointing down ;) |
| 02:14.34 | cunzhang | Renze, let shop to do it for u |
| 02:14.53 | Jucato | fscking shift ? |
| 02:15.53 | cunzhang | odla, let me try to restart my computer :0 |
| 02:16.02 | cunzhang | s/0/) |
| 02:16.13 | odla | no start rebooting |
| 02:16.14 | odla | he ha ha |
| 02:16.17 | odla | stop |
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| 02:21.51 | *** join/#kde MooingLemur (n=troy@shells195.pinchaser.com) |
| 02:22.01 | *** join/#kde cunzhang (n=cunzhang@218.7.43.198) |
| 02:22.32 | cunzhang | odla, so strange when I restart ,system:/media is empty again |
| 02:22.43 | bsnider | i need a guinea pig |
| 02:23.05 | bsnider | someone who feels comfortable with advanced networking |
| 02:23.07 | odla | cunzhang: i don't know...i wish i did |
| 02:23.14 | *** part/#kde MaximLevitsky (n=MaximLev@89.1.166.110.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 02:28.55 | smacnay__ | wow, kde has some nice apps |
| 02:29.10 | Jucato | O_O |
| 02:29.51 | Jucato | it does? |
| 02:30.04 | smacnay__ | I am so used to usung console and may never switch from vim, latex, gnuplot, mutt, etc. but can always run them from inside kde |
| 02:30.17 | *** join/#kde radi0head (n=freaksho@modemcable228.95-83-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 02:30.19 | smacnay__ | I was looking at the koffice info |
| 02:30.25 | Jucato | ah |
| 02:30.55 | smacnay__ | something I miss in console is the ease of using different apps together easily |
| 02:32.00 | *** join/#kde seren (n=james@CPE-65-31-152-66.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 02:32.19 | sunque | YES |
| 02:32.20 | smacnay__ | I like the hotpluggable stuff - usb things, no more looking up /proc/partitions and mounting as root |
| 02:32.26 | sunque | i read the manual! |
| 02:32.40 | sunque | disconnected IMAP! |
| 02:32.45 | sunque | :D |
| 02:33.22 | *** join/#kde poopybutt (n=Matt@cpe-71-66-224-42.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 02:34.00 | poopybutt | nah, i like it the way it is |
| 02:34.06 | smacnay__ | I stil haven't been able to get k3b set up to use sudo (some glitch with kdesu that doesn't allow me to input the root passwd) but am quite comfortable using cdrecord, growisofs, and cdrdao. |
| 02:34.12 | Jucato | lol |
| 02:34.29 | qupada | smacnay__: why the hell would you want to use sudo with k3b? |
| 02:34.49 | qupada | set suid root on cdrecord and cdrdao (but NOT growisofs) and you're good to go |
| 02:35.08 | smacnay__ | qupada: k3bsetup tries to set up root usage for better access to system and rtc |
| 02:35.21 | poopybutt | i do have a question though. im running kopete .12.3 and want to add a chat style. i downloaded one at kde-look and its in the form of a .php file |
| 02:35.28 | poopybutt | when i try to install it, it wont accept it |
| 02:35.29 | smacnay__ | I could usr as user too. |
| 02:35.33 | qupada | smacnay__: yeah, it's easy enough to do that manually though |
| 02:35.37 | poopybutt | i know in the past that these files have worked |
| 02:35.38 | smacnay__ | true |
| 02:35.42 | Renze | poopybutt: rename it to .zip and try again |
| 02:36.18 | poopybutt | nope |
| 02:36.38 | Renze | poopybutt: that has always worked for me |
| 02:36.38 | poopybutt | not a valid chat window style |
| 02:36.50 | Renze | poopybutt: then I guess it's not a valid chat window style :) |
| 02:36.57 | poopybutt | Renze: are you using .12.3? |
| 02:37.00 | Renze | yes |
| 02:37.15 | Renze | and I'm using a theme I grabbed from the adium site |
| 02:37.19 | poopybutt | http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=30980 |
| 02:37.39 | poopybutt | try getting that one to work, im 100% positive that has worked for me as recent as a month ago |
| 02:37.53 | Renze | poopybutt: that's a theme for 0.11 and below, not for 0.12 and above |
| 02:38.08 | Renze | theme engine has changed completely |
| 02:38.17 | Renze | it is html/css instead of xml/xslt now |
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| 02:38.50 | poopybutt | Renze: how long ago was this? |
| 02:38.58 | Renze | since 0.12.0 was released |
| 02:39.02 | poopybutt | when was that? |
| 02:39.08 | Renze | I can't remember |
| 02:39.25 | Renze | but 3.5.5 is the first KDE release to include 0.12.x |
| 02:39.36 | poopybutt | cause im almost positive that i've gotten it to work when i clicked that import button that is no longer there |
| 02:39.43 | Renze | see above |
| 02:39.54 | poopybutt | oh |
| 02:39.56 | Renze | 3.5.4 had 0.11.3 |
| 02:40.00 | *** join/#kde Platyna (i=platyna@xpam.de) |
| 02:40.04 | Platyna | :> |
| 02:40.06 | Platyna | Hello. |
| 02:40.16 | poopybutt | well shucks, whats another good kopete style site besides kde-look |
| 02:40.35 | Platyna | Ho ho ho ten years! Hell alot of time. |
| 02:40.36 | Renze | poopybutt: http://www.adiumxtras.com/index.php?a=search&cat_id=5 |
| 02:40.38 | Platyna | ;-0 |
| 02:43.38 | poopybutt | i just like simple stuff, no screen clutter. i could care less about seeing somebodies stupid picture of a basketball or something like that |
| 02:45.34 | Jucato | ooo so that's Sho_'s web page :) |
| 02:45.53 | Jucato | Sho_: FFN? |
| 02:46.07 | Renze | poopybutt: there are minimalist themes on that site too |
| 02:46.17 | poopybutt | yeah im browsing |
| 02:47.00 | Renze | css is great... looking forward to using it with Qt4 ;) |
| 02:47.12 | Renze | duck season! *blam!* |
| 02:47.19 | Jucato | lol |
| 02:47.34 | qupada | hehe... Renze has PMS... "pass my shotgun" |
| 02:47.35 | Jucato | when I get well (hopefully soon), I'm going to reclaim my Linux box... |
| 02:47.49 | Platyna | ;] |
| 02:47.49 | Renze | be vewwy vewwy qwiet |
| 02:47.58 | Platyna | Now you may admire me, I am so brave. |
| 02:47.58 | Jucato | lol |
| 02:47.58 | Platyna | ;> |
| 02:48.01 | qupada | that's rabbits, not ducks, damnit |
| 02:48.04 | Jucato | Elmer Fudd |
| 02:48.09 | Renze | Platyna: I build KDE all the time ;) |
| 02:48.10 | Jucato | wabbit season |
| 02:49.26 | qupada | Eh... what's up doc? |
| 02:49.35 | Platyna | Renze: Could be, but I never did it. ;) |
| 02:50.05 | Platyna | And considering the hell I have gone throught to unsuccessfully compile OOO I am suspicious. |
| 02:50.10 | Renze | Platyna: I've been building KDE from source for the past three years :P |
| 02:50.27 | Renze | and I don't mean it has taken that long :P |
| 02:50.37 | Sho_ | lol |
| 02:50.41 | Platyna | Renze: You are a KDE dev or some distro maintainer? |
| 02:50.43 | Platyna | ;-) |
| 02:50.56 | Renze | Platyna: no, an ex-LFS and current Gentoo user :) |
| 02:51.04 | Platyna | Building KDE libs took me like an hour. |
| 02:51.07 | Sho_ | Platyna: Chances are KDE has a significantly cleaner codebase than OpenOffice ;) |
| 02:51.16 | Renze | OOo is a PITA to build |
| 02:51.19 | Platyna | Renze: Oh, just don't go to work for Microsoft.;) |
| 02:51.25 | Renze | Platyna: never! |
| 02:51.30 | Platyna | Sho_: I know. |
| 02:51.47 | Platyna | Renze: Gentoo project founder were telling us the same. :P |
| 02:52.05 | *** join/#kde tagx (n=thomas@pool-71-163-134-253.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 02:52.15 | Renze | founder doesn't matter... only the project matters :) |
| 02:52.27 | Platyna | Anyway, Slackware, semper fidelis. |
| 02:52.28 | Platyna | ;) |
| 02:53.34 | Platyna | Slackbuild is something similar to ebuild. |
| 02:53.48 | Platyna | It just has less whistles and is not so automagic. |
| 02:53.49 | Platyna | :) |
| 02:54.48 | Sho_ | Am I the only one who really doesn't like KOffice' monstrous template startup dialogs? |
| 02:55.08 | Platyna | I am generally the one who doesn't like KOffice. |
| 02:55.12 | Renze | Sho_: you're not |
| 02:55.25 | Platyna | And it is so painful to admit MS Office is the best office suite available. ;( |
| 02:55.40 | Renze | best at crashing and destroying work, yes |
| 02:55.55 | Platyna | Yeah, like OOO is not crashing. |
| 02:56.05 | Renze | I don't use OOo either |
| 02:56.14 | Renze | KOffice does everything I need |
| 02:56.16 | Platyna | At least while not crashing it is quite fast and simple. |
| 02:56.17 | Platyna | ;] |
| 02:56.27 | Platyna | On Linux mcedit does everything I need. |
| 02:56.33 | Sho_ | OOO and fast? |
| 02:56.35 | qupada | i do, and it hasn't crashed once since i compiled it a couple of weeks back |
| 02:56.37 | Renze | vim ftw! |
| 02:56.40 | qupada | and i use it every day |
| 02:56.44 | Platyna | Sho_: Nah, MS Office. |
| 02:56.54 | Sho_ | MS Office and simple? |
| 02:57.08 | Renze | MS Office and usable? |
| 02:57.10 | Platyna | Anyway there are things like data sheets that uses SQL dbs to refresh etc. |
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| 02:57.20 | *** join/#kde Endler (n=len@c-24-118-6-25.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 02:57.26 | tvtoon | emacs :X... |
| 02:58.07 | Platyna | Well. You may be Linux Greenpeace guys, but I am still following what Linus Torvalds said: Linux is an operating system not a religion. ;) |
| 02:58.19 | Platyna | Koffice crashes badly more offten than MS Office. |
| 02:58.22 | Renze | and Windows is a virus, not an operating system ;) |
| 02:58.26 | villr[]ye | hi. how do i get the close icon on mouseovers in konqueror? |
| 02:58.27 | Platyna | And OOO is slow, ugly and generally I hate it. |
| 02:58.29 | Platyna | ;] |
| 02:58.38 | Platyna | Renze: No one said I like Windows. |
| 02:58.39 | Sho_ | Oh, I definitely agree that MS Office is far superior to both KOffice and OpenOffice, all things considered |
| 02:58.39 | Platyna | ;-) |
| 02:58.40 | villr[]ye | in konqueror tabs i meant to say.\ |
| 02:58.44 | Renze | Platyna: you're starting to sound like a troll |
| 02:58.49 | Sho_ | Nonetheless, KOffice does all I need |
| 02:59.01 | Renze | KOffice does all I need too |
| 02:59.20 | Platyna | Renze: Well, actually you are starting to not follow me. ;) However Sho_ has got my point. |
| 02:59.21 | qupada | Sho_: it might be superior, but out of the 3, which has tens of millions of dollars a year spent on it, that's the question |
| 02:59.25 | tvtoon | Platyna, wrong wrong and wrong... |
| 02:59.45 | tvtoon | Linux is not an OS... |
| 02:59.51 | Renze | linux is a kernel |
| 03:00.07 | Platyna | tvtoon: Well, go write it to Linus Torvalds. :) |
| 03:00.12 | Platyna | I just quoted him. |
| 03:00.39 | Renze | I never quote linus torvalds |
| 03:00.55 | Renze | one man does not dictate the community |
| 03:01.03 | Sho_ | qupada: I'm aware of the resource constraints, of course |
| 03:01.15 | villr[]ye | konqueror? tabs? close icon on hover? |
| 03:01.17 | tvtoon | If I create a pie, and said to you it is a Nuclear Weapon, so would you just quote me? :) |
| 03:01.33 | Platyna | Renze: Anyway he has something to say about what he invented. |
| 03:01.36 | qupada | tvtoon: i don't like pie though |
| 03:01.43 | Renze | Platyna: the kernel only, not the rest |
| 03:02.01 | tvtoon | qupada, what about chinese food ? :D |
| 03:02.04 | Renze | GNU existed long before linus made linux |
| 03:02.13 | Platyna | Renze: Well, there would be no Linux without the kernel. |
| 03:02.21 | Platyna | Of course it works backwards too. ;) |
| 03:02.27 | Platyna | I am fully aware of it. |
| 03:02.31 | Renze | Platyna: if linux hadn't come along, we'd all be using GNU/Hurd |
| 03:02.44 | Endler | Not the kernal thing again, lol. You'll never get people to start typing GNU/Linux. Everything else is chat especially is abbreviated, but we're supposed to get all formal and long wind about GNU/Linux?! Maybe we should alway start reffering to Microsoft Windows (TM) instead of Window, Win or whatever too. |
| 03:02.46 | Sho_ | qupada: But then I don't have a big problem with admitting that e.g. Calc and KSpread don't even come close to the functionality provided by Excel (probably the best product Microsoft makes). The bottom line is that Excel costs money whereas KSpread and Calc don't, and have all the functionality they need to facilitate what probably most people use Excel for. So KSpread and Calc are quite attractive products. |
| 03:02.56 | Platyna | And about spent thousands of dollars, people who praise freedom rather shouldn't forbid others to spent their money for what they want. |
| 03:02.57 | *** join/#kde poutine (n=poutine@cpe-65-189-184-241.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 03:02.57 | villr[]ye | Renze: no, we wouldn't. we'd _still_ be waiting. |
| 03:03.08 | Renze | villr[]ye: *BSD then? :) |
| 03:03.08 | villr[]ye | but how about those konqueror tabs? |
| 03:03.15 | Platyna | Good for me I never needed to purchase any MS product thought. |
| 03:03.17 | Platyna | ;-) |
| 03:03.27 | villr[]ye | fascinating how they can have a close icon show up on hover eh? |
| 03:03.45 | Renze | villr[]ye: I don't use that particular feature, but I'm sure it is in settings |
| 03:03.51 | poutine | Anyone know where in the code I could find where the taskbar supplies a tooltip when moused over an application in the taskbar? |
| 03:03.57 | qupada | Sho_: yeah, i was getting to that point. i guess it depends on what you value more, features, price, whatever. because buying microsoft software just doesn't sit right |
| 03:03.59 | poutine | supplies it with the application's title |
| 03:04.09 | villr[]ye | Renze: no, it's a hidden setting. something you have to put in your config file |
| 03:04.15 | Renze | villr[]ye: Web Behaviour, Advanced button |
| 03:04.21 | villr[]ye | but i don't have it memorized |
| 03:04.27 | Sho_ | qupada: Personally I value most that the software is free as in speech |
| 03:04.27 | villr[]ye | asiego told me i think' |
| 03:04.43 | Renze | villr[]ye: and you expect the rest of us to know? :) |
| 03:05.04 | Platyna | qupada: You know...MS did some pieces of good software, like MS Office, problem is MS Office only runs on Windoze, and Windoze is did badly. |
| 03:05.22 | qupada | Sho_: also a good point. after all we've seen what lack of peer review can do (WEP, anyone?) |
| 03:05.27 | villr[]ye | Renze: the setting you're pointing me to will replace the favicon with the close button. |
| 03:05.36 | Sho_ | oh, Konqueror has too I see |
| 03:05.40 | Sho_ | ah well :} |
| 03:05.40 | Renze | villr[]ye: that's the only one I know, I'm afraid |
| 03:05.40 | Platyna | Windoze should still be thing like KDE - a graphical interface and integrated workspace, but not an OS. |
| 03:05.43 | villr[]ye | the one i'm referring to will replace the favicon on mouseover/hover |
| 03:05.59 | Platyna | It seems irresonable all that whistels including IE are crucial parts of OS. |
| 03:06.23 | Renze | Platyna: tell the people in ##windows all these things ;) |
| 03:06.32 | Renze | Platyna: we don't really care ;) |
| 03:06.33 | Sho_ | villr[]ye: The widget Konqueror uses, KTabWidget, is capable of that, and Konversation uses that capability to replace the LED notification icon it can show with a close button on hover if told to do so |
| 03:06.53 | Sho_ | villr[]ye: Whether Konqueror exposes that capability I don'w know. It might via a config file setting not exposed in the GUI. |
| 03:06.53 | Endler | Excel is Microsoft's best piece of software. Most people just use it though because they can't figure out how to use tables properly in a Word processor, or use it to keep track of things they should be using a database for. |
| 03:06.59 | Platyna | Another one with troll hysteria. ;) |
| 03:07.10 | villr[]ye | Sho_: it is. that's what I've been trying to find :-) |
| 03:07.17 | Platyna | Think whatever you wish Renze, I just like to discuss stuff with the people. ;) |
| 03:07.22 | Renze | Platyna: no, I just get very very bored talking about Windows |
| 03:07.25 | Sho_ | villr[]ye: just found http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=Secret+Config+Settings#_Hover_Tab_Close_Buttons_in_Konqueror_KDE_3_2_ |
| 03:07.34 | Renze | I don't give two shits about Windows |
| 03:07.41 | Platyna | Renze: Actually it was about office suites. :P |
| 03:07.47 | Renze | same thing |
| 03:07.51 | villr[]ye | Sho_: ah the wiki. totally forgot about that. thanks |
| 03:08.01 | Renze | all things Microsoft bore the crap out of me |
| 03:08.12 | villr[]ye | Sho_: thanks Sho_ |
| 03:08.52 | Platyna | Renze: Same relations applies to Dell, Apple, HP, IBM and any other companies that makes software for money...or makes money in general. |
| 03:08.52 | Endler | The real problem with Microsoft is that hardware is getting really really cheap now, but MS's prices are holding steady or increasing. |
| 03:09.02 | Platyna | I do not accept it, but well, what can we do? ;) |
| 03:09.19 | Renze | Platyna: do I have to hear about it all the time? |
| 03:09.21 | Endler | So the cost of their software relative to the price of hardware is skyrocketing to absurd levels. |
| 03:09.31 | Sho_ | Endler: How's that a problem? It's good for Linux, anyway ;) |
| 03:09.44 | Endler | Yes, good for Linux indead :) |
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| 03:09.55 | Platyna | Renze: You should be nicer towards the people. |
| 03:09.57 | Platyna | Goodnight. |
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| 03:09.59 | *** part/#kde Platyna (i=platyna@xpam.de) |
| 03:10.03 | Sho_ | Endler: If Windows licenses make PCs significantly more expensive, there may eventually be more hardware shipments with Linux |
| 03:10.51 | tvtoon | Sho_, I don't think so, but oh well... Personal :) |
| 03:11.11 | Endler | I think so. People are just not going to accept paying just as much for software as they do for something far more tangible like hardware. |
| 03:11.16 | villr[]ye | Sho_: not whilst OEM vendors get insane discounts |
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| 03:12.12 | Endler | What about at upgrade time. It will be $100 for the stripped version of Vista |
| 03:12.32 | Endler | to upgrade their machine that prob has a market value of $100, lol |
| 03:13.21 | Sho_ | Not sure what I paid for the last Mac OS X upgrade, but I think it was more than $100 |
| 03:14.03 | Endler | The "ultimate" non-stripped version of Vista will be $300!! |
| 03:14.09 | Endler | Give me a break |
| 03:14.24 | Endler | Then another $300 to upgrade the office suite |
| 03:15.00 | Sho_ | Hm, one merchandise KDE should sell are gear-shaked cookies |
| 03:15.08 | Sho_ | *shaped |
| 03:15.21 | Renze | mmmmm... cookies... |
| 03:15.32 | Sho_ | brand name: "Kookies" |
| 03:15.43 | Endler | I converted several people when they dropped support for 95, ME, becuase they had no desire to fork over $100 for XP upgrade |
| 03:16.27 | Sho_ | Oh, new nVidia driver without the root exploit |
| 03:17.31 | Sho_ | http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1971 |
| 03:17.45 | qupada | 9625/9626 are immune as far as i'm aware |
| 03:17.47 | tagx | yes |
| 03:17.54 | tagx | kookies are good |
| 03:18.05 | Endler | I don't think most average user even notice much of a difference between running XP or KDE. You set up buttons for everything they use and they pretty much stick to that--esp if they were already using Firefox/Thunderbird. |
| 03:18.23 | Renze | users are dumb |
| 03:19.37 | Endler | The good thing though is that the really unadventurous ones rarely screw up their systems :) |
| 03:19.47 | Sho_ | Renze: Don't mistake ignorance for stupidity |
| 03:19.56 | Renze | Sho_: I don't |
| 03:20.15 | Renze | but the majority of users will just accept whatever comes preinstalled |
| 03:20.27 | Sho_ | That's ignorance, though, not stupidity |
| 03:20.32 | Renze | I know |
| 03:24.32 | Endler | I don't think it's either really. I think it's more of a personality thing. They just don't have the burning quest for knowledge that those who like to tinker do. :) |
| 03:24.39 | Renze | remaining ignorant is stupid, however |
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| 03:25.49 | *** join/#kde oggb4mp3_ (n=oggb4mp3@amarok/livecd/oggb4mp3) |
| 03:27.07 | Endler | I mean burning THIRST, lol |
| 03:27.40 | *** part/#kde poutine (n=poutine@cpe-65-189-184-241.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 03:28.59 | Endler | That would have worked a few years back, but I've been loading up on spices lately and have built up quit a tolerance. :D |
| 03:30.00 | Endler | That might do it. :) |
| 03:30.12 | Endler | Those things pack a punch. |
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| 03:30.18 | Sho_ | Renze: The point I was tryint to make is that we're all ignorant towards some things that aren't central to what we desire to do in live. For some people a computer is tool like no other, and they have no significant interest in delving into the matter as long as it works reasonably well. I'm sure you're ignorant about other types of tools, as I am. It's true that they'd be better off for delving into the matter to a degree, but that they don't |
| 03:30.18 | Sho_ | doesn't make them stupid. |
| 03:31.00 | Renze | it's all relative |
| 03:31.25 | Renze | but I do know some people who know nothing about anything, and have no desire to change |
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| 03:32.41 | Endler | Yeah, A lot of people do wear their ignorance like a badge of honor. No doubt about that. |
| 03:33.31 | Renze | they make Homer Simpson look like a strong thinker |
| 03:34.12 | *** join/#kde Agathezol (n=marmon@host-69-145-126-6.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net) |
| 03:34.28 | Endler | There is definitely a strong anti-intellectual movement. |
| 03:35.17 | Agathezol | in schools in america? or in the world in general? |
| 03:35.18 | Endler | You think you could teach Paris Hilton to Navigate KDE? |
| 03:35.34 | Renze | ...and there is one scientist forecasting the human race splitting into two branches soon |
| 03:36.11 | Endler | Well, for sure in America. Look at the state we're in, lol. It's pretty damn obvious to everyone except Americans themselves. |
| 03:36.14 | Renze | those that like to think, and the trolls |
| 03:36.21 | Sho_ | There's one scientist for every whacky theory ;) |
| 03:37.58 | Endler | The haves and the have-nots. The distribution of wealth in the US is spinning out of control. |
| 03:38.14 | BrigadierFrog | and its not like that already in other countries? |
| 03:38.19 | BrigadierFrog | look at south american nations |
| 03:38.28 | BrigadierFrog | you've got people living in villas or shanties |
| 03:38.30 | Renze | it's the same everywhere |
| 03:38.33 | BrigadierFrog | exactly |
| 03:38.43 | BrigadierFrog | to say its just in the US is ludicrous |
| 03:38.44 | Renze | just more pronounced in the US |
| 03:39.04 | BrigadierFrog | I'd say its most pronounced in countries like china, brazil, mexico, etc |
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| 03:39.28 | Endler | The US is on the most rapid acceleration though. |
| 03:39.31 | BrigadierFrog | not to say the US isn't heading in that direction (the middle class IS shrinking) |
| 03:39.47 | Renze | BrigadierFrog: it's hidden by the government in most of those places |
| 03:39.48 | Endler | Those other countries are already there. |
| 03:39.53 | BrigadierFrog | true |
| 03:40.52 | Agathezol | yes, on that note. I've been working through the visualtutorial from the kde dev site. There seems to be a piece of information missing during the bit in chapter 5 when you create the base class (CentralViewBase). I'm using kde3.5.2 and kdevelop3.3.2. Anyone familar with this or willing to take a look at the tutorial and see what I'm missing? |
| 03:44.50 | *** join/#kde sander (n=sander@pool-68-160-228-156.ny325.east.verizon.net) |
| 03:45.13 | sander | hi, does anyone know how to set the resolution for kdm? |
| 03:46.19 | Agathezol | sander i believe it is the default resolution for X11 |
| 03:48.02 | Endler | You also set the dpi there by making sure you have the Displaysize options set |
| 03:48.11 | Endler | x and y in mm |
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| 03:49.31 | Endler | KDE defers to Xorg, unlike gnome where you set the dpi from within gnome. |
| 03:49.46 | sander | OK, I'll look that up. Thanks. |
| 03:50.40 | Endler | BTW, everyone was talking about Flash 9 yesterday. |
| 03:51.00 | Endler | I tried it it its' working well for me : ) :) :) |
| 03:51.10 | Endler | What a treat. |
| 03:51.34 | *** part/#kde jsubl2 (n=jsubl2@72.48.95.220) |
| 03:51.37 | Agathezol | Any idea if it will use alsa instead of oss? |
| 03:52.26 | Sho_ | Agathezol: Flash 9 Beta 1 uses ALSA exclusively, yes |
| 03:52.35 | Endler | Most distros use an oss wrapper over alsa anyway, so you are essentially using alsa regardless. |
| 03:52.38 | Agathezol | Sho_ awesome |
| 03:53.14 | Endler | Are any distro still using native OSS drivers? |
| 03:53.20 | Agathezol | Endler: yes, but alsa's dmix interface is much nicer than trying to multiplex through oss. Also after sleep alsa apps work properly, oss ones have some difficulty until alsa is reloaded. At least on my machine. |
| 03:54.41 | vinboy | is Flash 9 out? |
| 03:54.52 | Endler | Alsa was a real pain in the ass in that last one when they introduced a bug going from rc4 to final. |
| 03:55.12 | Agathezol | so, in kdevelop, how do I turn a widge into a base class? |
| 03:55.15 | Endler | So lots for people had to downgrade back to rc4 |
| 03:55.24 | Sho_ | vinboy: A beta |
| 03:55.26 | qupada | vinboy: it's a beta, but better than nothing |
| 03:55.38 | vinboy | can I get it for gentoo yet? |
| 03:55.42 | Agathezol | vinboy |
| 03:55.45 | Endler | It is working better for me than Flash 7 |
| 03:55.45 | Agathezol | vinboy yes |
| 03:55.51 | Sho_ | vinboy: Yes. The ebuild is hard masked, however. |
| 03:55.55 | vinboy | wow |
| 03:55.56 | vinboy | nice |
| 03:55.56 | Endler | audio and video is actually in sync. |
| 03:55.59 | vinboy | i gonna try it out now |
| 03:56.04 | Agathezol | vinboy echo "net-www/netscape flash" to /etc/portage/package.unmask and /etc/portage/package.keywords |
| 03:56.14 | vinboy | thx Agathezol |
| 03:56.17 | qupada | we got it in the tree yesterday |
| 03:56.17 | Agathezol | its presently both masked and keyword masked |
| 03:56.26 | qupada | that's net-www/netscape-flash, for the record |
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| 03:56.37 | Agathezol | ah, yes, sorry there |
| 03:57.20 | vinboy | tat isn't the gentoo way :D |
| 03:58.04 | Sho_ | Gentoo didn't have an ebuild at the time. |
| 03:58.30 | vinboy | is it possible to emerge --sync netscape-flash only? |
| 03:58.36 | vinboy | instead of the whole portage |
| 03:59.17 | Sho_ | no |
| 03:59.41 | vinboy | thx |
| 03:59.47 | Sho_ | (well, you can always get the dir from CVS, of course) |
| 03:59.51 | Agathezol | vinboy you could download the ebuild from the bugs site and just throw it in an overlay |
| 04:00.11 | vinboy | nvm.. i'll do emerge --sync and wait a few minutes |
| 04:00.13 | vinboy | :) |
| 04:04.10 | Endler | What does Konversation use for spell checking. I have auto spell checking on, but it's not working and when I click to open the spell checking dialog, nothing happens. |
| 04:04.31 | smacnay__ | is there a kde app that lets one access a samba share and perform perations on the share (similar to mounting the share)? |
| 04:04.52 | Agathezol | is there a more appropriate channel to discuss development issues? |
| 04:04.52 | Sho_ | Endler: It uses the standard KDE technology for spell-checking in input fields. Check your spell checking settings in KControl, e.g. make sure the selected backend is installed. |
| 04:04.59 | Sho_ | smacnay__: Yes, Smb4k |
| 04:05.12 | Sho_ | Agathezol: #kde-devel |
| 04:05.22 | Endler | OK, Ill go look. |
| 04:05.39 | Agathezol | Sho_ and thats not specific to the development of kde but includes developing apps? |
| 04:05.46 | Sho_ | Agathezol: The KDE developer community is predominantly European, however, and the Europeans are asleep at the moment :) |
| 04:05.59 | smacnay__ | Sho_: thanks |
| 04:06.01 | Sho_ | Agathezol: Anyone developing with KDE technology is welcome |
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| 04:06.35 | Agathezol | Sho_: thanks much. I will ask and then ask again tomorrow midday (10:07pm here now) if I can't get an answer |
| 04:07.30 | Sho_ | Agathezol: There's also a list of mentors available here: http://www.kde.org/getinvolved/development/ |
| 04:09.13 | Agathezol | awesome |
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| 04:16.09 | *** join/#kde FireBall (n=fireball@c-24-6-100-207.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:16.55 | FireBall | hello all |
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| 04:17.23 | FireBall | I have a question about KDE4, I couldn't find anything recent about this online so I thought I would ask here |
| 04:17.37 | Sho_ | FireBall: ask away |
| 04:17.57 | FireBall | Is Tenor still planned for KDE4 and will it still have all the features mentioned in interviews? |
| 04:19.45 | Sho_ | FireBall: That's not quite known at this point. What I can tell you is that there are a couple of related technologies around, namely the Strigi search engine technology developed by some KDE developers that has strong ties to other KDE technology, and also draws upon an earlier search engine, KAT. That may eventually be integrated into KDE4 and evolve into what the vision for Tenor was initially. |
| 04:20.52 | FireBall | That's too bad, I was really looking forward to Tenor |
| 04:21.00 | FireBall | but thanks Sho_, I will take a look at the technology you mentioned |
| 04:21.05 | Sho_ | FireBall: KDE is also presently collaborating with a semantic desktop research effort by an European university (iirc) to develop technologies that are related to the Tenor effort |
| 04:21.44 | *** join/#kde LinuxMafia (n=awatt@CPE001346a4c4cb-CM00159a642d7e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 04:21.50 | FireBall | that sounds promising |
| 04:22.01 | LinuxMafia | hi all |
| 04:22.12 | LinuxMafia | i got an error in k3b |
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| 04:22.24 | LinuxMafia | it says "unable to perform OPC : input/output error" |
| 04:22.36 | LinuxMafia | any one has any idea? |
| 04:22.37 | Sho_ | FireBall: Well, the bottom line is that Tenor-the-application has not materialized, but Tenor-the-concepts are alive, and there are technologies under active development, such as Strigi, that are crucial to Tenor becoming reality. So in a way, brands aside, Tenor is in development. To which degree that will be integrated into KDE 4.0 is another question. |
| 04:23.16 | Sho_ | FireBall: Basically, to do Tenor, you need something like Strigi. Strigi is not called Tenor, but you can see it as a component of Tenor ;) |
| 04:23.52 | FireBall | Sho_: I see, do you think context searching (I think it's called) will be ready for 4.0? |
| 04:24.28 | Sho_ | FireBall: I don't think that's likely, no |
| 04:25.30 | Sho_ | FireBall: Well, perhaps - let me elaborate |
| 04:25.34 | *** part/#kde kwak (n=opera@mail.aims.ac.th) |
| 04:25.34 | FireBall | Sho_: Oh well...I hope it will make it into KDE eventually though, it sounds very useful |
| 04:25.59 | Sho_ | FireBall: One thing that is definitely comping with KDE 4 is Akonadi, which is a new storage service for PIM data, such as email, contacts, conversations, news feeds, events, and so on |
| 04:26.20 | Sho_ | FireBall: Since these are stored centrally and available as a platform service, they can be contextualized |
| 04:27.06 | Sho_ | FireBall: So what you will definitely get by KDE 4 is that different applications will be better aware of the context of some data, and you will have less trouble moving information from one app to another, since they can all tap into the same storage |
| 04:27.27 | Sho_ | FireBall: http://pim.kde.org/akonadi |
| 04:27.37 | Endler | OK, it's working now. I have Aspell install, but KDE was set to use ISpell. |
| 04:27.47 | *** part/#kde Dr_willis (n=willis@74.140.6.108) |
| 04:28.28 | FireBall | Sho_: will konqueror have some ability to deal with context? |
| 04:30.03 | Sho_ | FireBall: Well, Konqueror will be able to tap into Akonadi, so what you may see is for example a facility that allows you to bring up other PIM data related to a file that (established by metadata) has an author that exists in Akonadi's contacts database |
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| 04:30.07 | psych0 | hi there... |
| 04:30.26 | psych0 | i'm configuring a LTSP server here.. that is going to use KDM and KDE |
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| 04:30.51 | FireBall | Sho_: Ah, thanks |
| 04:31.10 | Endler | Speaking of Konqueror. I just tested some sections of some sites that were not rendering properly with the Konqueror included in 3.5.4, that are now rendering properly after I upgraded to KDE 3.5.5 :) |
| 04:31.29 | Sho_ | FireBall: The reality of things is that Tenor is a very compelling vision, but to make it reality, numerous tangible technological hurdles need to be overcome. Innovations take time. The applications need to evolve with the platforms, and the users need to evolve with the applications. It's all happening, but you can't snap a finger and there it is. :-) |
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| 04:32.05 | Endler | From the Bug fix list, it looks like a lot of effort is being put into KHTML lately. |
| 04:32.07 | psych0 | someone told me to do this: ln -s /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d/lbus-start.sh /opt/kde/env so this script gets loaded... |
| 04:32.13 | psych0 | but looks like it isn't... |
| 04:33.05 | psych0 | any idea why? or what should i do to make it work? |
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| 04:35.08 | FireBall | Sho_: That's true, it does seem like a lot of work, it's just that I think in an interview about a year ago the creator of Tenor said it would be in KDE4, but after that I hadn't heard anything |
| 04:35.37 | *** join/#kde Mase (n=am@ppp102-106.static.internode.on.net) |
| 04:36.42 | Sho_ | FireBall: There's a successful game development company called id Software that has a running gag: "How long will it take?" - "Two weeks!" One of the founders of id Software, John Carmack, one explained the gag by stating that programmers think they can get _anything_ done in two weeks, because they're notoriously bad at scheduling ahead. |
| 04:37.02 | Sho_ | FireBall: The truth is that programming can be very unpredictable as far as the time needed goes, especially if you're trying to do something new :) |
| 04:37.58 | Renze | Sho_: maybe we should use that answer whenever people ask for when KDE4 is coming out :D |
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| 04:39.24 | FireBall | Sho_: That makes sense...my hope was that Tenor was essentially a part of KDE4, so KDE4 would be delayed until Tenor was ready |
| 04:40.41 | Sho_ | FireBall: The truth is that delaying KDE4 not for Tenor provides a much better chance for Tenor to become reality given the situation. Because when KDE 4.0 is out, developmeng pace will pick up considerably because there are more people aboard the new generation. |
| 04:40.50 | *** join/#kde vinboy (n=vinboy@60-234-137-136.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) |
| 04:42.06 | j001 | Tenor? |
| 04:42.21 | Sho_ | FireBall: That said, KDE 4 is still quite a stretch away, and technology like Strigi and Akonadi is evolving and converging, so don't lose excitement in KDE 4.0 ;) |
| 04:42.22 | j001 | Sho_: Tenor? |
| 04:42.28 | Renze | Tenor is what Beagle has wet dreams of being |
| 04:42.44 | j001 | heh |
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| 04:42.52 | j001 | I use beagle... |
| 04:43.04 | j001 | it's the best atm imo |
| 04:43.10 | Sho_ | j001: The codename for a set of technologies to enrich usage of metadata throughout the KDE Desktop and contextualize files |
| 04:43.34 | j001 | I haven't heard of Tenor |
| 04:43.44 | j001 | Strigi or Akonadi |
| 04:43.52 | j001 | Sho_: |
| 04:44.13 | FireBall | Sho_: Sounds good, certainly better than Gnome's future anyway |
| 04:44.16 | Sho_ | j001: Strigi is a metadata collection and search engine, Akonadi is a PIM data storage and retrieval platform service |
| 04:44.16 | d0ug2 | superkaramba broked on me and now i need to clear it of hot themes it thinks are installed but are not. I rm'ed everything in ~/.share/kde/apps/superkaramba or wherever it is in the user dir, that didn't help.. |
| 04:44.46 | Renze | d0ug2: check .kde/share/config/superkarambarc |
| 04:45.37 | d0ug2 | Renze: thanks |
| 04:45.43 | Renze | no problem |
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| 04:46.56 | BrigadierFrog | % PrimeQ[276931] |
| 04:47.04 | d0ug2 | Renze: ok, found it, should i rm it or go in and clean it up? |
| 04:47.15 | BrigadierFrog | oops, wrong channel :-) |
| 04:47.18 | Renze | d0ug2: up to you |
| 04:47.24 | d0ug2 | hmm.. coin flip time |
| 04:48.56 | Sho_ | d0ug2: Clean it up :) |
| 04:49.07 | Sho_ | d0ug2: Or instead of deleting it, move it away so you have a backup |
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| 04:49.19 | Sho_ | Deleting a config file is always a bad idea |
| 04:49.25 | d0ug2 | i compromised, i went in and recklessly deleted lines |
| 04:49.29 | d0ug2 | with little discrimination |
| 04:49.40 | d0ug2 | time to control alt backspace and see what happens |
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| 04:49.57 | Sho_ | you can restart superkaramba without killing X ;) |
| 04:51.05 | j001 | heh |
| 04:51.16 | j001 | Sho_: what about KDE4? |
| 04:51.26 | Renze | two weeks! |
| 04:51.26 | Sho_ | j001: What about it? |
| 04:51.27 | *** join/#kde lord-osius (n=lord-osi@148.245.173.253) |
| 04:51.27 | j001 | Sho_: long time? |
| 04:51.39 | Sho_ | j001: Q3/2007 I'd estimate |
| 04:51.48 | j001 | wow |
| 04:51.49 | j001 | :( |
| 04:52.03 | j001 | well, till then I'll try to use gnome... |
| 04:52.18 | j001 | I'd love to see plasma, tho |
| 04:52.46 | Sho_ | j001: I've heard that KDE 3.x can in fact be used too ;) |
| 04:52.52 | j001 | hehj |
| 04:52.55 | j001 | I'm on it |
| 04:53.02 | j001 | (sabayon live-cd) |
| 04:53.05 | j001 | nifty |
| 04:53.20 | j001 | but I still like gtk2+cairo+glitz... |
| 04:53.29 | j001 | we'll see KDE4 |
| 04:53.44 | Renze | users can't resist useless eye-candy |
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| 04:53.50 | FireBall | I tried using Gnome, it was really nice until I tried to get something done... |
| 04:54.02 | j001 | get something? |
| 04:54.17 | *** part/#kde TheBlunderbuss (n=Matthew@c-24-13-245-196.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 04:54.22 | j001 | well, I think beryl is very pretty.. |
| 04:54.32 | Sho_ | GTK2 is quite horrid, imho ;) |
| 04:54.33 | j001 | and makes my PC faster? why not! |
| 04:54.33 | Renze | I rest my case |
| 04:54.51 | j001 | QT is nice |
| 04:54.55 | FireBall | Let me put it this way: I'm looking forward to Tenor 10,000 times more than I am to Plasma |
| 04:55.17 | j001 | when is Tenor due? any plans or predictions? |
| 04:55.36 | j001 | dunno, the plazma panel is very nice |
| 04:55.45 | Sho_ | j001: We've just had an exhaustive discussion on the matter; I encourage you to scroll up and read it |
| 04:55.56 | j001 | I always liked slicker.. |
| 04:56.03 | j001 | I wasn't connected |
| 04:56.39 | j001 | I mean, how can a computer organize stuff for me better than I can |
| 04:57.21 | FireBall | it can help you do a better job of it |
| 04:57.40 | SAS_Spidey01 | This is funky |
| 04:57.59 | Sho_ | What is funky? ;) |
| 04:58.06 | j001 | but slicker is in fact a very nice idea I've been waiting for. |
| 04:58.19 | shadok | anyone knows if Tenor already have an interface or is this only a backend ? |
| 04:58.22 | SAS_Spidey01 | I'm trying to edit an entry on my blog in Konqueror and my CPU maxes out. I leave the page it's fine, I go back it tops out again |
| 04:58.51 | j001 | and this sabayon would be nice without KDE :( |
| 04:59.08 | Sho_ | shadok: If you can, scroll up and read our exhaustive discussion on Tenor .. |
| 04:59.29 | shadok | thx :) |
| 04:59.34 | FireBall | j001: I thought slicker has been replaced by Plasma? |
| 04:59.44 | j001 | yes |
| 05:00.02 | j001 | slicker never actually worked |
| 05:00.17 | j001 | only mockups on the website |
| 05:00.24 | j001 | but nice, I'd say |
| 05:00.34 | Sho_ | FireBall: You're probably thinking about Kicker, the original KDE panel application in use today. |
| 05:01.01 | j001 | Sho_: you know slicker? |
| 05:01.13 | Sho_ | j001: I'm aware of the mockups from half a decade ago, yes ;) |
| 05:01.20 | j001 | heh |
| 05:01.37 | j001 | I was using KDE until 1,5 years ago |
| 05:01.46 | j001 | when gnome became "usable" |
| 05:01.53 | Renze | gnome has never been usable |
| 05:01.58 | j001 | well |
| 05:02.04 | FireBall | Sho_: http://www.slicker.org/index.html seems to suggest it's been replaced by plasma? |
| 05:02.08 | j001 | not as usable as kde, I admit |
| 05:02.21 | j001 | heh |
| 05:02.31 | Renze | gnome treats users like idiots |
| 05:02.47 | j001 | or need to regedit |
| 05:02.49 | j001 | yes |
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| 05:02.58 | j001 | QT is a nicer palette though |
| 05:03.03 | shadok | Sho_: does this mean that strigi is a frontend for tenor ? |
| 05:03.09 | j001 | but I don't really like the licence |
| 05:03.16 | Sho_ | FireBall: Slicker used to be a third-party panel application project that never really materialized. Going by that page, I guess the authors have thrown in the towel and decided to help with Plasma development instead to realize their goals, which would be nice. |
| 05:03.18 | Renze | j001: you don't like the GPL? |
| 05:03.31 | Sho_ | shadok: No, Strigi is a backend technology required for Tenor |
| 05:03.37 | shadok | erf ok ^^ |
| 05:03.45 | j001 | Renze: QT is not GPL. |
| 05:03.47 | Sho_ | (as I said multiple times :) |
| 05:04.04 | Renze | j001: Qt-x11 has been GPL/QPL for six years |
| 05:04.10 | Sho_ | j001: QT (Apple QuickTime) is not GPL, true |
| 05:04.27 | Sho_ | j001: The Qt GUI Toolkit however, on which KDE is based, has been licensed under the General Public License for over six years |
| 05:04.28 | shadok | Sho_: sorry I didn't get that :) |
| 05:04.32 | j001 | not as I have heard it hasn't |
| 05:04.42 | Renze | j001: then you have heard wrong |
| 05:04.43 | Sho_ | j001: Well, you heard wrong :) |
| 05:04.58 | FireBall | it looks like Strigi itself lets you choose the engine |
| 05:05.04 | j001 | no, there is a QGPL or something |
| 05:05.05 | FireBall | clucene or sqlite for example |
| 05:05.05 | shadok | just read the license on trolltech's website |
| 05:05.14 | j001 | I saw it on trolltech's site |
| 05:05.18 | Renze | j001: no, it is dual licensed... GPL and QPL |
| 05:05.35 | Sho_ | j001: Qt can be used under multiple licenses, one of which is the GPL |
| 05:05.37 | j001 | what does that mean? |
| 05:05.47 | j001 | hmm |
| 05:05.54 | Sho_ | j001: That means that you can chose under which license agreement you want to use Qt |
| 05:05.56 | j001 | I am not goot in laws :) |
| 05:06.04 | FireBall | To be honest, I'm not really sure what Plasma is, so it's hard for me to get excited over it |
| 05:06.06 | j001 | ah |
| 05:06.23 | j001 | I saw mockups on PLAZMA site |
| 05:06.32 | Sho_ | j001: Basically, Qt is free, open source software under the GPL. But if you want to write closed source software with Qt, you can pay Trolltech and get a license that allows you to do that. |
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| 05:07.14 | j001 | Sho_: is it freely modifyable? |
| 05:07.20 | Sho_ | j001: Yes |
| 05:07.21 | Renze | it's GPL |
| 05:07.28 | j001 | ok |
| 05:07.38 | j001 | good to know :) |
| 05:07.41 | Sho_ | j001: Qt is available under the General Public License (GPL), the same license as the Linux kernel |
| 05:07.42 | Tman | is there a program that takes a filepath as an argument and looks up KDE's settings & opens that file with the correct program? |
| 05:08.21 | Sho_ | Tman: kfmexec |
| 05:08.21 | Tman | cool |
| 05:08.21 | Sho_ | Tman: and/or kfmclient |
| 05:08.22 | Tman | same thing? |
| 05:08.22 | Sho_ | Tman: The latter can for example also do copy operations on kioslaves from the command line |
| 05:08.22 | Sho_ | Tman: Nifty tool |
| 05:08.46 | Sho_ | Tman: I'm not 100% sure if kfmclient and kfmexec are identical ... best check the --help outputs for both ;) |
| 05:08.55 | Tman | hehe |
| 05:09.03 | Sho_ | Tman: But chances are one will do what you want ;) |
| 05:09.21 | FireBall | Is KHTML benefiting from WebCore yet? I seem to remember some complaints about that |
| 05:09.50 | Renze | there were some things that made it back into KHTML from webkit, and there is the unity project too |
| 05:10.32 | Sho_ | FireBall: Overall Apple is still benefiting far more, but there is some amount of stuff coming back too, yes |
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| 05:12.31 | FireBall | It kind of annoys me when I see so many websites talking about how they support Safari or are working to do so, without even mentioning Konqueror support if it even exists |
| 05:12.51 | Tman | Sho_: hmm kfmexec is confusing.. |
| 05:13.01 | FireBall | Renze: what is the unity project? |
| 05:13.13 | Sho_ | FireBall: Unfortunately websites treating Konqueror as Safari are quite problematic, yes, because Safari behaves differently in many ways |
| 05:13.24 | Renze | FireBall: trying to get khtml/webkit/etc all working together again |
| 05:13.28 | Tman | Sho_: looks like you have to specify a command for kfmexec; it doesn't look it up |
| 05:13.56 | Sho_ | FireBall: "Unity" is a controversial project that proposes taking WebCore, replacing Apple's wrapper around it (which they originally wrote to get rid of the Qt depencency) with Qt again, dropping KDEs KHTML, and using WebCore. |
| 05:14.29 | j001 | sh*t |
| 05:14.34 | Sho_ | Tman: So look at --commands :) |
| 05:14.43 | Tman | doh! |
| 05:15.06 | Sho_ | Tman: Going by kfmclient --commands, 'kfmclient exec <path>' ought to float your boat |
| 05:15.26 | BrigadierFrog | hmm.. I think I'd prefer to just have khtml |
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| 05:15.42 | FireBall | Wow, I was actually just about to ask if there were a way to just use WebCore in KDE directly, looks like they already thought of that |
| 05:16.19 | FireBall | I mean, if Apple is going to keep developing WebCore, then it seems to make sense to at least have that available as an alternative in KDE, if not the default |
| 05:16.21 | Sho_ | FireBall: "Unity" is a very controversial idea because it involves giving up control of KHTML entirely and giving it to Apple, which has repeatedly shown that it has no interest in working with KDE. |
| 05:16.37 | d0ug2 | Renze: yay it worked thanks. |
| 05:16.46 | d0ug2 | like a charm |
| 05:16.48 | Renze | d0ug2: no problem |
| 05:17.00 | Renze | I think I'll keep khtml, thanks |
| 05:17.08 | BrigadierFrog | same |
| 05:17.09 | Renze | Apple can kiss my pale hairy ass |
| 05:17.12 | FireBall | Sho_: So I guess if a new version of WebCore breaks KDE support, it would be a huge problem |
| 05:17.24 | d0ug2 | Renze: what can microsoft do to you |
| 05:17.35 | Renze | d0ug2: stay very very far away from me |
| 05:17.39 | Sho_ | FireBall: While they continue to take our technology for free (Apple is currently farther along at integrating KDE's KSVG2 and KDOM technology than KDE itself, which has caused the KSVG2 and KDOM developers to relocate their work to Apples repository, out of reach for KDE, etc. - it's not very pretty) |
| 05:18.06 | Sho_ | FireBall: For example, Apple personnel has been invited to KDEs annual developer conference aKademy repeatedly, and chosen not to attend. |
| 05:18.25 | FireBall | Sho_: Wow, is it literally out of reach? I thought after some complaints Apple opened up their repository? |
| 05:18.28 | Renze | thieving bastards. burn them all! |
| 05:18.46 | BrigadierFrog | well stuff is under the lgpl or bsd license as I recall |
| 05:19.00 | FireBall | Kind of makes you wish it was GPL instead huh? |
| 05:19.26 | Sho_ | FireBall: Personally, while the idea of employing Apple's resources is certainly tempting, I believe it would be a crucial strategical mistake to give up independent KHTML development and give up control of the engine to Apple. KDE would lose an important asset, in technology and know-how. |
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| 05:20.38 | Sho_ | FireBall: "Out of reach" means that Apple controls write access, and Apple is a commercial entity with its own agenda, whereas KDE is a pretty damn open, community-driven, not-for profit project. |
| 05:21.06 | FireBall | Sho_: What if, instead of developing KHTML and KJS separately, the developers instead spent their time adapting each new version of WebCore to make sure it works with KDE? So, in essence, the new KHTML was this constantly updated 'tweak' of WebCore. |
| 05:21.45 | FireBall | Sho_: So what you're saying is, it's much more difficult to contribute to the official versions of KSVG2 and KDOM, now that they are on Apple's repository? |
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| 05:22.55 | Sho_ | FireBall: As I tried to outline above, I think that would be a huge strategical mistake, because Apple has its own agenda and does not care about KDEs interests. I think it's important to the well-being of the KDE project that it maintains the infrastructure and know-how to develop KHTML without being at the mercy of Apple. |
| 05:23.19 | Sho_ | FireBall: Yes, exactly |
| 05:23.26 | FireBall | Sho_: Makes sense, I just hope they can benefit more in the future |
| 05:23.42 | FireBall | Incidentally, I think people in the wider tech community just give Apple a free pass on a lot of things |
| 05:24.00 | Sho_ | FireBall: With KSVG2 and KDOM in Apple's repository, it's harder to contribute, because Apple controls write access, and gives it only to those who further their agenda, which may only temporarily align with KDEs |
| 05:24.14 | Renze | Apple needs a swift kick up the jacksy from the community, IMHO |
| 05:24.22 | FireBall | I bet if they took Mozilla's code instead and did the same thing, all those Firefox fans would make a big fuss |
| 05:24.34 | FireBall | The irony here may be that KDE developers are too kind |
| 05:25.21 | Sho_ | FireBall: Not to mention the fact that KDEs own KHTML includes numerous improvements and abilities not found in WebCore as well, and merging this work into a repository without liberal write access would probably be hard. You can imagine why people having invested years of work aren't too wild at the thought of throwing it away. |
| 05:25.40 | FireBall | I remember when something about this turned up on Slashdot, most people blamed KDE: "If they didn't want Apple to use their code, they should have used a different license," etc... |
| 05:26.25 | FireBall | Sho_: Ah, that makes things clearer. It hadn't occured to me that KHTML had advanced further in some areas than WebCore has. |
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| 05:26.59 | Sho_ | FireBall: Sure, Apple is under no legal obligation to do more than they do at the moment. But precisely because they've historically done the minimum and only improved after press backlash, the idea of giving up control of the technology entirely to them sounds ludicrous to me :) |
| 05:29.35 | FireBall | Sho_: Are the developers able to track each improvement made to WebCore, or have they been trying to figure out themselves what changes have been made? |
| 05:32.07 | Sho_ | FireBall: Historically Apple would only release tarballs with every new Safari release, making it impssible to track individual changes. After a KDE developer wrote a frustrated complaint in his blog, there was a big press backlash which prompted Apple to maintain a public CVS repository that is synchronized with their internal, actual repository in some relatively rapid interval. |
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| 05:35.02 | FireBall | Sho_: Ah, now I remember. I think that complaint is the same one I remember being mentioned on Slashdot. |
| 05:35.28 | Sho_ | FireBall: Most likely, yup .. |
| 05:37.05 | Renze | faceless corporations are bad, mmmkay? |
| 05:37.41 | Dr_willis | but ones with faces are ok? |
| 05:37.58 | Renze | which corporations have faces? |
| 05:38.27 | Sho_ | FireBall: It would be quite nice if there was a shared open source project backed by some kind of non-profit that both Apple and KDE committed to with intention to directly use, but Apple has given no indication of interest in that, or they market WebCore as that project, in which write access is however controlled by them |
| 05:39.49 | FireBall | Sho_: is http://webkit.org/ an official Apple site? |
| 05:40.04 | Sho_ | FireBall: yup |
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| 05:40.35 | Renze | they're using Lucida Grande, so it must be :D |
| 05:40.49 | FireBall | Sho_: You're right, then, Apple does seem to be positioning it as the shared project. From the site: "WebKit is an open source web browser engine. WebKit is also the name of the Mac OS X system framework version of the engine..." |
| 05:41.28 | Sho_ | FireBall: What that means, to translate, is that WebKit is the public CVS server, contrasted with their internal actual WebKit repository ;) |
| 05:41.45 | Sho_ | FireBall: But since they keep the number of people with write access to the CVS server to a minimum, the two don't diverge ;) |
| 05:42.00 | Sho_ | FireBall: They let the KSVG2 people in, which gave them more technology ;) |
| 05:43.51 | FireBall | Sho_: This all seems pretty sneaky, especially the way they've set up the WebKit site. How does this compare to OpenOffice, for example? Does Sun allow more people to contribute to that? |
| 05:44.48 | Sho_ | FireBall: Another thing I find dubious, if you read the "Contributing Code" page and the "Obtaining Check-In Privileges" section, there is mention of a comitter agreement one needs to sign. That smells an awful lot a like a document that assigns copyright of checkins to Apple so they can theoretically relicense it some day. |
| 05:45.01 | Sho_ | FireBall: That's of course speculation, I don't know what's in the comitter agreement. |
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| 05:46.00 | Sho_ | FireBall: I'm not deeply familiar with OpenOffice, but as far as I know there's an effort underway to register an independent OpenOffice foundation, cutting OOo lose from Sun. |
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| 05:46.21 | Sho_ | FireBall: And I think OOo committers retain their individual copyright (as in KDE) |
| 05:48.09 | FireBall | Sho_: It looks like you only need to sign the comitter agreement if you want check-in access, but since you can submit patches that are accepted before then, I don't think you're reassigning copyright to Apple, luckily. |
| 05:48.46 | Sho_ | FireBall: Ah, no ... OOo requires signing a copyright assignment form too which assigns copyright to Sun |
| 05:49.02 | Sho_ | FireBall: However if OOo is made independent eventually, I assume Sun will transfer copyright to the foundation |
| 05:49.48 | BrigadierFrog | doesn't kde retain the copyright of all kde code? |
| 05:49.53 | Sho_ | BrigadierFrog: No |
| 05:50.00 | Sho_ | BrigadierFrog: KDE contributiors retain individual copyright |
| 05:50.08 | BrigadierFrog | thats pretty nice :-) |
| 05:50.16 | BrigadierFrog | but you can't exactly withdraw your code can you |
| 05:50.25 | Sho_ | BrigadierFrog: Nope ... since it's GPL'd |
| 05:50.38 | FireBall | I think the FSF makes you transfer copyright, I think their explanation is that they need it to defend against legal threats or something |
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| 05:51.08 | Sho_ | FireBall: The FSF grabs copyright so it can switch to the next GPL version whenever it comes out ;) |
| 05:51.14 | BrigadierFrog | nice, although I'm not sure what good retaining copyright would do me |
| 05:51.20 | BrigadierFrog | if I contributed |
| 05:51.27 | FireBall | Sho_: Ah, good point, last time I checked GPL v3 was looking like a mess |
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| 05:52.02 | BrigadierFrog | have you actually read through it? or are you just basing your opinion on all the FUD going around... ? |
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| 05:52.55 | FireBall | BrigadierFrog: I read through one of RMS's drafts. I don't like that it prevents you from modifying GPL software on your server without distributing it. |
| 05:53.00 | Sho_ | FireBall: I think the current draft is very decent. The controversy is also basically limited to two clauses, one more so, one lesser. |
| 05:53.33 | Sho_ | FireBall: It doesn't do that, actually |
| 05:53.46 | BrigadierFrog | GPL shouldn't say that... |
| 05:53.54 | Sho_ | FireBall: The license allows a copyright holder to add an additional restriction to require that |
| 05:54.00 | Sho_ | FireBall: The license itself does not |
| 05:54.05 | FireBall | That's good news, I'm pretty sure it did at one point though. |
| 05:54.20 | Sho_ | FireBall: It might have, yes .. |
| 05:54.22 | BrigadierFrog | RMS doesn't care if you internally make changes |
| 05:54.26 | FireBall | Sho_: Oh, but if that restriction is added, is it still considered GPL software? |
| 05:54.32 | BrigadierFrog | and use that without distributing I guess |
| 05:54.36 | Sho_ | FireBall: yup |
| 05:54.58 | BrigadierFrog | thats how I interpreted his speech he gave at my uni anyways |
| 05:55.13 | BrigadierFrog | he only cares when things get distribute or sold, then the source must go along |
| 05:55.23 | BrigadierFrog | and all the "freedoms" |
| 05:55.25 | BrigadierFrog | along with it |
| 05:55.29 | FireBall | To me, that's still an issue; I think software distributed with that restriction shouldn't be considered GPLed |
| 05:56.45 | FireBall | BrigadierFrog: I agree with that 100%, but to me the output alone shouldn't be considered distribution. |
| 05:57.27 | Sho_ | quote: 'terms that require, if a modified version of the material they cover is a work intended to interact with users through a computer network, that those users be able to obtain copies of the Corresponding Source of the work through the same network session' |
| 05:58.13 | BrigadierFrog | well if its some addable restriction |
| 05:58.21 | BrigadierFrog | I don't see why many would necessarily do that |
| 05:58.32 | FireBall | In any case, isn't it a different license if that restriction is included? So there would no longer be just one GPL, adding confusion. |
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| 06:00.57 | FireBall | BTW, the WebKit wiki is actually a page explaining that OpenDarwin has shut down, partly due to Apple's lack of cooperation. |
| 06:01.23 | Renze | now there's a surprise |
| 06:01.27 | Sho_ | FireBall: OTOH, that confusion already exists, to a degree ... there are loads of GPL-like licenses whose only contribution is to add such a restriction, and rolling that into the GPL simplifies things at least legally |
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| 06:02.18 | Sho_ | FireBall: OTOH I certainly see your point that something that acts significantly differently ought to be named differently |
| 06:03.43 | FireBall | Sho_: Still, the number of projects under GPL far outnumbers those variants AFAIK...if GPL v3 lets you add such a restriction, I'm pretty sure many more projects will choose to add it. |
| 06:04.57 | Sho_ | FireBall: Well, I think that particular additional restriction is not completely unfounded |
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| 06:05.21 | Sho_ | FireBall: It's designed to prevent that a company takes e.g. an open source content management or shop system and builds a business out of it without having to give back |
| 06:05.21 | FireBall | Sho_: Also wouldn't this create a split? e.g., if a GPLed project without the restriction uses code from a project with the restriction, I assume they would have to change their license as well. |
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| 06:05.56 | Sho_ | FireBall: I assume what you're fearing is that you want to modify a software for personal use on your website and don't want to have to provide sources ... I guess it's up to the individual projects to balance both demands |
| 06:06.25 | Sho_ | FireBall: I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea even for private persons to learn that they should share sources though ;) |
| 06:06.33 | FireBall | Sho_: I can definitely understand the reasoning behind it; I'm just concerned about it being part of the GPL |
| 06:06.49 | Sho_ | FireBall: Well I think it's in the spirit of the GPL |
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| 06:08.35 | FireBall | Sho_: I see what you mean, it's just that to me the core of the GPL is, as BrigadierFrog mentioned, if you redistribute the software, the source should go along with it |
| 06:09.11 | FireBall | Sho_: But in the case of the web app, even though the software isn't being redistributed, the source would now still need to be |
| 06:09.31 | Sho_ | FireBall: In a sense, this is the old free software vs. open source debate all over again. There's the "do what you want with it" camp of licenses, and the camp of licenses that try to actively enforce the code staying open in as many scenarios as they can cover |
| 06:09.38 | Renze | depends on the definition of "distribution" |
| 06:09.39 | Sho_ | FireBall: The GPL was always in the latter camp |
| 06:10.25 | Sho_ | FireBall: The FSF's stated agenda was always to make everybody go open source all the time, and their license reflects that |
| 06:11.40 | FireBall | Sho_: I suppose that's true. For me, the BSD license is extreme in one direction, and propietary licenses are extreme in the other direction. GPL v2 seemed just right |
| 06:11.52 | Sho_ | FireBall: And while a website is perhaps not distribution in the classic sense, it's certainly a public enterprise, unlike in-house use |
| 06:13.08 | FireBall | Sho_: True, I'm certainly glad that RMS hasn't tried to claim a web app's output as "distribution," and is instead being specific about these cases in the license itself |
| 06:15.14 | Sho_ | FireBall: Other than that, I think the issue will self-regulate. I don't think any popular web software project will be able to sustain adding that restriction of their users don't want it. Especially in the web sector where there's 20 different apps for everything and competition is high. |
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| 06:15.41 | Sho_ | FireBall: So ... IMO it's good that the GPL v3 offers the option to add it and thus to roll in those other licenses, but I don't think it will create big problems in practice |
| 06:16.58 | FireBall | Sho_: Also any GPLed software already released can continue to be used under v2 of course, so I agree that there isn't a huge problem. I do think it will be a little confusing if both licenses shared the GPL v3 name, though |
| 06:18.05 | Sho_ | FireBall: Well, you can't use a GPL v3 codebase under GPL v2 ... you can use some GPL v2 codebases under GPL v3 however, if they use the "v2 or later" template header text |
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| 06:19.57 | FireBall | Sho_: What I mean is, worst case, if a popular project switches to v3 and that turns out to be unacceptable, the last v2-licensed version can always be forked |
| 06:20.06 | Sho_ | FireBall: yup |
| 06:21.13 | FireBall | Sho_: Also I'm not really up-to-date on this, but is it true that the linux kernel won't be switching? If that's the case, then v2 is guaranteed at least some popularity in the future |
| 06:22.13 | Sho_ | FireBall: Regardless of the controvery around it, in reality, the kernel just can't switch. It doesn't use the "or later" text and contributors retain individual copyright, so good luck getting thousands of people on board. |
| 06:22.25 | SAS_Spidey01 | The Linux kernel is the only thing I like about GNU/Linux.... |
| 06:22.29 | Sho_ | FireBall: It's similar with some of the KDE code |
| 06:22.59 | FireBall | Sho_: Ah, so linux and KDE are essentially stuck with v2, whether they like it or not... |
| 06:23.39 | Sho_ | FireBall: Well, no ... first of all, kdelibs is LGPL, but most of the applications are GPL. Among those, it varies between "v2 or later" and not. |
| 06:24.02 | SAS_Spidey01 | Won't QTs open src edition be using gplv3/qpl ? |
| 06:24.05 | Sho_ | FireBall: For example, I maintain Konversation, a KDE IRC client, which uses the "v2 or later" wording, so if we wanted, we could switch it to GPL v3. |
| 06:24.21 | Sho_ | FireBall: Or for that matter, you could chose to license it under the GPL v3 yourself |
| 06:25.01 | Sho_ | SAS_Spidey01: Unknown at this point |
| 06:25.27 | FireBall | Sho_: Hmm...so basically, anyone who uses the "or, at your option, any later version" is placing a lot of trust on the FSF |
| 06:25.29 | SAS_Spidey01 | Mmmm |
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| 06:25.50 | SAS_Spidey01 | Personally, I like the X11 and BSD style licenses |
| 06:25.56 | Sho_ | SAS_Spidey01: I see it as unlikely, because the anti-tivo clause in GPL v3 is unfriendly to commercial developers of embedded systems, and Trolltech is banking a lot on the popularity of QTopia, its embedded eddition of Qt |
| 06:26.17 | *** join/#kde dumbkiwi (n=matt@203-114-186-21.bitstream.sta.fx.net.nz) |
| 06:26.38 | SAS_Spidey01 | Sho_, why do I forsee a surge in Gnome popularity... |
| 06:27.05 | Renze | SAS_Spidey01: unlikely... users don't care about licenses |
| 06:27.11 | Sho_ | SAS_Spidey01: Yes, why do you? Gnome technology is LGPL'd to make closed source developers happy already |
| 06:27.15 | BrigadierFrog | most users don't... a few do |
| 06:27.37 | Sho_ | SAS_Spidey01: And if Qt sticks to GPLv2, it won't change a thing |
| 06:27.54 | SAS_Spidey01 | Fair enough |
| 06:28.13 | BrigadierFrog | man, I'm starvin, food time |
| 06:28.17 | Jucato | licenses... can't live with them, can't live without them... |
| 06:28.17 | SAS_Spidey01 | Renze, if I recall wasn't QTs licensing apart of Gnomes early development |
| 06:28.30 | FireBall | Jucato: So licenses are like women? ;) |
| 06:28.33 | Renze | SAS_Spidey01: back before it was GPLed, yes |
| 06:28.37 | Jucato | FireBall: lol :) |
| 06:29.10 | FireBall | And I thought licenses were hard to understand...you've put it all in perspective for me Jucato :) |
| 06:29.21 | Jucato | hehe |
| 06:29.35 | Renze | women are hard to understand... just like licenses ;) |
| 06:30.17 | Jucato | ok getting offtopic :P |
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| 06:30.28 | *** join/#kde ryanakca_ (n=ryan@unaffiliated/ryanakca) |
| 06:30.33 | Renze | and I'm sure they would admit that they are hard to understand for males ;) |
| 06:30.37 | *** join/#kde ryanakca_ (n=ryan@unaffiliated/ryanakca) |
| 06:30.38 | Jucato | whoa ryanakca's dancing :P |
| 06:30.45 | *** join/#kde ryanakca_ (n=ryan@unaffiliated/ryanakca) |
| 06:30.53 | *** join/#kde ryanakca_ (n=ryan@unaffiliated/ryanakca) |
| 06:30.53 | FireBall | Renze: That was my point :p |
| 06:31.00 | Sho_ | Renze: They'd probably rightfully maintain that they're more attractive than license texts, however ;) |
| 06:31.11 | Renze | Sho_: absolutely ;) |
| 06:31.13 | Jucato | lol |
| 06:31.31 | Sho_ | (Although I suspect there are some people who might masturbate to GPL v3 drafts) |
| 06:31.40 | Jucato | whoa |
| 06:31.44 | Renze | sick sick people |
| 06:31.56 | FireBall | :-O |
| 06:32.24 | Sho_ | not me :P |
| 06:32.59 | Jucato | definitely not me... |
| 06:33.06 | *** join/#kde AR (n=Akarak@itk1.bas-net.by) |
| 06:33.21 | Renze | me neither |
| 06:33.28 | BrigadierFrog | who? |
| 06:33.52 | Renze | any lawyers in the channel? ;) |
| 06:34.22 | Jucato | good thing el and seele aren't here :) |
| 06:34.40 | FireBalled | maybe Sho_ was thinking of RMS... |
| 06:34.44 | SAS_Spidey01 | dang gum it some things got my cpu @ 100% |
| 06:34.53 | Renze | SAS_Spidey01: artsd? |
| 06:35.35 | *** join/#kde AegeanLinux|ALi (n=tim@202.172.121.122) |
| 06:36.17 | Renze | ok guys... gotta tone it down now, there's a minor here ;) |
| 06:37.53 | SAS_Spidey01 | I havn't learned to read top well yet |
| 06:40.10 | Jucato | where's the minor? |
| 06:40.26 | Jucato | ??? |
| 06:40.46 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Renze: hey scx |
| 06:40.49 | Jucato | the developer of Aegean Linux is a minor? |
| 06:40.50 | AegeanLinux|ALi | * sxc |
| 06:40.59 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Jucato: He is playing with you |
| 06:41.02 | Jucato | lol |
| 06:41.04 | Renze | no I'm not |
| 06:41.13 | SAS_Spidey01 | kdeinit is the top of the list, right above xorg |
| 06:41.16 | Renze | AegeanLinux|ALi: tell him how old you are |
| 06:41.16 | *** join/#kde schnuggles (n=schnuggl@pD9533C96.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:41.21 | AegeanLinux|ALi | so, what were we all talking about before I arived |
| 06:41.25 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Jucato: I am 16. |
| 06:41.29 | Jucato | O_O |
| 06:41.31 | Renze | SAS_Spidey01: press "c" to expand the commands |
| 06:41.41 | AegeanLinux|ALi | -10 geek points, aye :-P |
| 06:42.23 | SAS_Spidey01 | "Command not understood" |
| 06:42.30 | Sho_ | Jucato: You're 35 and regretting you didn't make your own Linux distro in your teenage years, right? ;) |
| 06:42.40 | Jucato | lol |
| 06:42.41 | Renze | SAS_Spidey01: that works in my top |
| 06:42.44 | Jucato | I'm 23 :P |
| 06:43.03 | Jucato | But I do regret not having found out about Linux earlier |
| 06:43.04 | SAS_Spidey01 | is it gnu top ? |
| 06:43.12 | Sho_ | Jucato: I thought it was a midlife crisis thing ;) |
| 06:43.19 | Renze | SAS_Spidey01: dunno... I just type "top" :D |
| 06:43.36 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Jucato: I guess you do not want to know ;-) |
| 06:43.48 | Jucato | Sho_: actually I'm having a post-teen pre-midlife crisis |
| 06:43.54 | Sho_ | hehe |
| 06:44.07 | Jucato | AegeanLinux|ALi: what wouldn't I want to know? |
| 06:44.17 | AegeanLinux|ALi | post-teen?!? Jucato: please explain ... ;-) |
| 06:44.30 | Jucato | but I've been into computers since I could remember... probably 10 yrs. old |
| 06:44.38 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Jucato: you just wouldn't want to know. |
| 06:44.52 | Jucato | ok I won't press any further :) |
| 06:44.55 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Jucato: for me it was since I can remember |
| 06:44.59 | SAS_Spidey01 | "Top version 3.5" according to the readme in /usr/src/contrib/top/README |
| 06:45.21 | Renze | top: procps version 3.2.6 |
| 06:45.22 | AegeanLinux|ALi | I remember Kindy (Grade One), where I would run home to turn on the FAMILLY computer |
| 06:45.23 | *** join/#kde ebola (n=unsure@sw69x3.foto.gu.se) |
| 06:45.31 | AegeanLinux|ALi | with dare I say it ... Windows 3.11 WfW |
| 06:45.40 | Jucato | heh :) |
| 06:45.41 | AegeanLinux|ALi | I was such a newb |
| 06:46.00 | Renze | my family never had a computer... I was the only geek |
| 06:46.02 | Jucato | I started with MS-DOS. amazed some grown ups with very basic BAT programming |
| 06:46.09 | *** join/#kde root (n=root@87.247.163.84) |
| 06:46.09 | AegeanLinux|ALi | ( people like Renze would agree that it is still the same :=P ) |
| 06:46.18 | Renze | it is :) |
| 06:46.43 | Renze | writing games in Apple Basic |
| 06:46.48 | omid | HI |
| 06:46.51 | Jucato | QBasic for me lol |
| 06:46.54 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Renze: did you get to use the old TTY's ? |
| 06:46.55 | Renze | <-- old fart |
| 06:47.11 | Renze | AegeanLinux|ALi: no, they had trashed the one they had the year before I got there |
| 06:47.11 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Jucato: we are still learning QBasic this year for IST (computer classes) |
| 06:47.15 | FireBalled | Jucato: Me too, I remember writing all kinds of qbasic programs |
| 06:47.16 | *** join/#kde kamiro87 (n=kamiro__@cpe-66-65-10-154.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 06:47.18 | AegeanLinux|ALi | dang. |
| 06:47.20 | Jucato | if I only knew about the wonders of Linux, KDE, and open source back then, I wouldn't have taken up Philosophy for my course... :P |
| 06:47.32 | Jucato | AegeanLinux|ALi: no way? |
| 06:47.47 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Jucato: seriously. |
| 06:47.48 | FireBalled | Is there anyone who still runs KDE on BSD? :p |
| 06:47.51 | Jucato | I would have expected they'd teach something Visual... |
| 06:47.57 | omid | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:47.58 | AegeanLinux|ALi | So did I |
| 06:48.14 | AegeanLinux|ALi | I even sugested "VBA" or "Visual Basic for Applications" included in Word |
| 06:48.16 | kamiro87 | hey, i just installed KDE on debian using apt get and i cant figure out how to get the "change volume" module on the toolbar. Where can i download it? my sound works fine otherwise. |
| 06:48.18 | Jucato | FireBalled: then you remember spaghetti code then :) |
| 06:48.30 | AegeanLinux|ALi | but the school said, and I quote, "They did not have the licences" |
| 06:48.41 | benJIman | kamiro87: kmix |
| 06:48.42 | FireBalled | kamiro87: I believe that's KMix |
| 06:48.44 | Renze | kamiro87: run kmix, and it will dock in the systray |
| 06:48.45 | kamiro87 | thankyou |
| 06:48.49 | AegeanLinux|ALi | and I was |-| <== that close to laughing out loud |
| 06:48.50 | Jucato | lol |
| 06:48.57 | FireBalled | Jucato: indeed |
| 06:49.11 | kamiro87 | cant be worse then wmay my school did. our fileserver isnt on the same network as the computers. |
| 06:49.21 | Jucato | AegeanLinux|ALi: and I presume they're running licensed copies of Windows? |
| 06:49.26 | FireBalled | kamiro87: lol, what's the point of that? |
| 06:49.28 | kamiro87 | and they wont fix it. or let us into the closet to fix it |
| 06:49.33 | kamiro87 | beurocracy. |
| 06:49.42 | Renze | bureaucracy doesn't work |
| 06:49.44 | kamiro87 | lol |
| 06:49.54 | Jucato | meritocracy works :P |
| 06:49.56 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Jucato: yeah, they paid like $50,000 just to update to XP at the end of 2nd term |
| 06:50.11 | FireBalled | What a waste of what I presume are tax dollars. |
| 06:50.17 | kamiro87 | yup |
| 06:50.27 | AegeanLinux|ALi | No, I go to a Private School. |
| 06:50.33 | kamiro87 | we had a working system. old but working. and they decided to give us a "new and improoved one" |
| 06:50.33 | FireBalled | Ah, good |
| 06:50.40 | benJIman | Your taxes are being utilized to extend microsoft's monopoly. |
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| 06:50.46 | *** join/#kde SAS_Spidey01 (n=Terry@adsl-219-78-43.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 06:50.58 | Sho_ | Back in my school days, they used Pascal for teaching |
| 06:51.08 | FireBalled | This is what irks me about education bonds: Local public school asks for more money to "improve buildings," ends up buying Windows licenses... |
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| 06:51.32 | FireBalled | And as if on cue...I was just asking if anyone ran KDE on BSD anymore |
| 06:51.36 | SAS_Spidey01 | well a good old control+alt+backspace fixed it |
| 06:51.39 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Linux takes to long to get used to, othereise I would suggest all people to switch to Linux |
| 06:51.40 | Jucato | we had QBasic back then, too. but I didn't expect that much anyway from a school that still runs MS-DOS while the rest of the world is already running Windows 3.1 |
| 06:51.46 | benJIman | FireBalled: lots of people do. |
| 06:51.49 | AegeanLinux|ALi | even if it is ... Kubuntu ... :=P |
| 06:51.55 | *** join/#kde spafbnerf (n=al@196.211.112.246) |
| 06:51.58 | Jucato | hm... |
| 06:52.07 | FireBalled | benJIman: That is great to hear |
| 06:52.07 | qupada | i remember high school |
| 06:52.08 | *** part/#kde AmitPhukan (n=amit@202.41.228.162) |
| 06:52.10 | benJIman | AegeanLinux|ALi: the trouble begins with what they use at school. |
| 06:52.21 | qupada | i got the domain admin password by reading it over the technician's shoulder |
| 06:52.23 | qupada | good times |
| 06:52.34 | benJIman | Schools are training people in using microsoft products, instead of teaching people like they should be. |
| 06:52.34 | FireBalled | When I was growing up, we used old macs...somehow I've managed to get over it |
| 06:52.46 | Jucato | the only reason Linux "takes long to get used to" is that most people and most literature are so Microsoft-oriented |
| 06:52.49 | AegeanLinux|ALi | qupada: I got the domain admin password by editing the registry, running "mmc" and reseting it |
| 06:53.02 | AegeanLinux|ALi | good times. To bad "IT STILL FRICKING WORKS" |
| 06:53.08 | FireBalled | qupada: lol, in my case they just gave up and gave me the password themselves so I would fix the systems |
| 06:53.13 | Jucato | Renze: well, you are. you said so yourself :P |
| 06:53.25 | qupada | when you're trying to play ut99 over the school network without them noticing, it's a great help if someone has access to the c$ share on every desktop machine for distributing it |
| 06:53.47 | *** part/#kde spafbnerf (n=al@196.211.112.246) |
| 06:53.58 | AegeanLinux|ALi | LOL, that is how students got tests off the file server for term 1 |
| 06:54.00 | benJIman | Fortunately at uni we only have linux boxes, and we're allowed to play games. |
| 06:54.11 | AegeanLinux|ALi | They fixed that up now, too bad :-/ |
| 06:54.46 | AegeanLinux|ALi | If Linux was a little better at allowing ACL's I think it would be an easy replacement for Windows in all environments |
| 06:55.07 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: How is Linux worse at "allowing" ACLs than Windows? |
| 06:55.29 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Sho_: it took me on my Gentoo system ~45 mins to get working |
| 06:55.39 | AegeanLinux|ALi | and on Aegean it took me ~15 minutes |
| 06:55.46 | benJIman | AegeanLinux|ALi: most distros set up ACLs by defaul |
| 06:55.47 | benJIman | t |
| 06:55.49 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Windows OOTB work streight away |
| 06:55.52 | *** join/#kde sredna (n=anders@kde/developer/alund) |
| 06:56.10 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: Well, Gentoo is a nerdy do-it-yourself distro, that's not really a fair comparison |
| 06:56.12 | benJIman | AegeanLinux|ALi: they work out of the box on most distros, just because you're using your own does't make it difficult in general# |
| 06:56.20 | AegeanLinux|ALi | at our school, they lock everything down with the system policy, but it is defeated by the point that you can just run "regedit" and change it all anyways |
| 06:56.25 | FireBalled | Even if schools are scared of linux, they should use solaris instead of windows |
| 06:56.26 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: And even then, it's a kernel option and a USE flag, i.e. about 30 seconds |
| 06:56.27 | SAS_Spidey01 | If GNU/Linux fell into one large Distro rather then the top 400 it would make more changes faster |
| 06:57.29 | Sho_ | Yeah, and if the Earth's ecosystem had only developed a single species rather than a myriad interacting, evolution would be so much farther along .. ;) |
| 06:57.29 | AegeanLinux|ALi | benJIman: well, I shall look into it then, after all, the new Aegean is ment to rock not only the world, but the universe, but that is IMHO only :-P |
| 06:57.55 | *** join/#kde shaishai (i=jeroenc@CM-204-193-202-229.omah.tconl.com) |
| 06:57.56 | FireBalled | I have to agree with Sho_'s point. I think it actually makes things faster with 400 distros rather than 1. |
| 06:58.09 | SAS_Spidey01 | Maybe 10 or 20, but not hundreds |
| 06:58.27 | FireBalled | Well, it is the top 10 or so that make the most changes anyway |
| 06:58.51 | SAS_Spidey01 | maybe if most of the development time spent on all those distros over the years had been towards one goal |
| 06:58.53 | BrigadierFrog | most of them are just based one one of the bigger ones |
| 06:59.11 | SAS_Spidey01 | I wouldn't have to say GNU and Linux when I speak of it, I could consider it an OS |
| 06:59.27 | Sho_ | SAS_Spidey01: The entire point of open source software is to allow for people to develop towards the individual goals they have, which are not singular |
| 06:59.34 | Sho_ | SAS_Spidey01: If you want singular focus, you're wrong in open source |
| 06:59.42 | Jucato | SAS_Spidey01: that's just not the way things in the Open Source world works |
| 06:59.43 | FireBalled | I actually think the BSDs work well at this, each BSD is centrally controlled but they share code. |
| 06:59.49 | *** join/#kde S4mdf0o1 (n=S4mdf0o1@AToulouse-257-1-123-227.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:00.00 | SAS_Spidey01 | I agree, but it feels wasteful at this level |
| 07:00.04 | S4mdf0o1 | hi all ! |
| 07:00.25 | BrigadierFrog | SAS_Spidey01: well most of them die out after a few months anyways |
| 07:00.29 | BrigadierFrog | due to lack of usage |
| 07:00.31 | SAS_Spidey01 | to me, it feels as if there are 30 diffrent implementations of a system to do the same thing |
| 07:00.35 | Jucato | or lack of developers |
| 07:00.47 | Jucato | well not *exactly* the same things |
| 07:00.58 | *** join/#kde Dhraakellian (n=ntryon@cpe-66-67-53-166.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 07:01.01 | SAS_Spidey01 | It's like having 5 web browsers and not knowing what html is in my mind |
| 07:01.10 | Jucato | ?? |
| 07:01.16 | Sho_ | SAS_Spidey01: It only feels so. The redundant distros are usually staffed by people who wouldn't be useful in the more relevant distros, or only become useful thanks to the training from working on a redundant distro. See it as training camp. |
| 07:01.25 | AegeanLinux|ALi | IMHO, AegeanLinux is the bomb, and it ain't quiting ATM, unless I die |
| 07:01.54 | FireBalled | SAS_Spidey01: Anyway, there's nothing that can be done. The 400 distros are a consequence of the development method. The only way to have focused, fast development for a long period of time seems to be with corporate money behind it. |
| 07:01.57 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Sho_: Thanks for that *_* |
| 07:01.58 | Jucato | "<SAS_Spidey01> It's like having 5 web browsers and not knowing what html is in my mind" I don't get this part... |
| 07:02.00 | SAS_Spidey01 | Thats a interesting way of putting it Sho_ |
| 07:02.24 | S4mdf0o1 | Is there a way, in kmail, to forward mails to determinated address, when moving mails to a certain folder ? |
| 07:02.31 | BrigadierFrog | I can't even view the about aegeanlinux webpage without a password? |
| 07:02.32 | BrigadierFrog | forget it |
| 07:02.34 | AegeanLinux|ALi | may I just say, AegeanLinux has a few very interesting upcomming features, and I think you will soon be hearing ( at least ) a small bit about it :-) |
| 07:02.51 | SAS_Spidey01 | Jucato, what I mean is: if you don't need 5 web browsers why have them? |
| 07:02.59 | novas0x2a | could i get someone to glance at http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135977? it's sorta crippling my system, and i'm at a complete loss :/ |
| 07:03.02 | FireBalled | No disrespect intended, ALi, but where's the beef? ;) |
| 07:03.09 | SAS_Spidey01 | if you don't need 30 custom systems to do the same thing, why have them? |
| 07:03.20 | Jucato | SAS_Spidey01: you don't need to use *all* 5 if you want. but the choice is there on what you want to use |
| 07:03.30 | FireBalled | SAS_Spidey01: Most of the 400 distros are meant for very specific tasks anyway |
| 07:04.00 | Jucato | err.. anyone can answer S4mdf0o1's question? |
| 07:04.06 | SAS_Spidey01 | Jucato, I agree and enjoy it but I think it's gone to far for it's own good imho |
| 07:04.17 | AegeanLinux|ALi | wowa, thanks BrigadierFrog for pointing that one out ^_^ |
| 07:04.36 | Sho_ | SAS_Spidey01: If you poll, you'll see that the largest part of the Linux users only use a few popular distributions, the long tail of smaller distros usually have specific user communities |
| 07:04.55 | AegeanLinux|ALi | FireBalled: define " beef " |
| 07:04.56 | SAS_Spidey01 | yes, I've noticed that |
| 07:05.03 | FireBalled | S4mdf0o1: AFAIC there's no way to do that, unless you set up a filter to move something to that folder immediately |
| 07:05.30 | SAS_Spidey01 | at times it oh most looks as if some one tailors a distro to there need and uploads it some where in a few cases |
| 07:05.41 | Sho_ | SAS_Spidey01: It should be noted that "long tail" models like this have interesting success properties. If you look at Amazon.com, they sell more books every day that didn't sell the day before than they sell books that did sell the day before. That means that Amazon is successful because they have an incredibly broad range of titles that individually aren't successful. Versus a brick-and-mortar store that can only afford shelf space for hits. |
| 07:05.45 | SAS_Spidey01 | even if it's all ready been done |
| 07:05.56 | BrigadierFrog | ok, pacman has been around for awhile now |
| 07:06.14 | BrigadierFrog | and some silly config script doesn't make me see how this is much better than say, arch linux |
| 07:06.17 | Jucato | isn't Pacman Arch Linux's package manager? |
| 07:06.24 | Renze | yeah, that yellow ball that goes wakka wakka |
| 07:06.27 | S4mdf0o1 | FireBalled: ok |
| 07:06.34 | Jucato | lol |
| 07:06.43 | FireBalled | AegeanLinux|ALi: What I mean is that, the most convincing argument you could make is to actually show the features |
| 07:07.05 | AegeanLinux|ALi | BrigadierFrog: Sure, but can you update 30 Arch Linux servers with THREE CLICKs of buttons ? ^_^ |
| 07:07.29 | BrigadierFrog | I can do it with none, its called a cron job |
| 07:07.33 | S4mdf0o1 | FireBalled: thanks ! |
| 07:07.42 | *** join/#kde fildo (n=fildo@c58-107-108-125.livrp1.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 07:07.56 | *** join/#kde grepper (n=robert@ip216-239-88-75.vif.net) |
| 07:07.57 | AegeanLinux|ALi | BrigadierFrog: and that is going to help if you need you system updated now, HOW exactly ? |
| 07:08.04 | FireBalled | S4mdf0o1: If I understood you correctly, you want the emails to be forwarded as soon as you manually move it to some folder... |
| 07:08.33 | *** part/#kde schnuggles (n=schnuggl@pD9533C96.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:08.43 | FireBalled | S4mdf0o1: I'm sure you could script that, but I don't think it can be done otherwise... |
| 07:08.50 | AegeanLinux|ALi | http://www.aegeanlinux.be/tim/pix/Untitled2.png , http://www.aegeanlinux.be/tim/pix/my_desktop4.png , http://www.aegeanlinux.be/tim/pix/my_desktop4.png |
| 07:09.09 | Renze | same image twice? |
| 07:09.18 | BrigadierFrog | heh |
| 07:09.22 | S4mdf0o1 | FireBalled: exactly, it's an idea on how to learn spam with an account piped through sa-learn in aliases |
| 07:09.26 | Sho_ | Renze: Like a good movie, you find new qualities each time you look at it! |
| 07:09.27 | AegeanLinux|ALi | http://www.aegeanlinux.be/tim/pix/my_desktop3.png |
| 07:09.43 | Renze | Sho_: good movies seem to be very rare these days ;) |
| 07:09.45 | *** join/#kde genaus (n=genaus@sauletekis.vtu.lt) |
| 07:09.50 | AegeanLinux|ALi | http://www.aegeanlinux.be/tim/pix/korp1.png . http://www.aegeanlinux.be/tim/pix/tim2.png . http://www.aegeanlinux.be/tim/pix/tim.png |
| 07:09.50 | Sho_ | Renze: True ;) |
| 07:09.55 | Jucato | lol |
| 07:09.55 | *** join/#kde fildo (n=fildo@c58-107-108-125.livrp1.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 07:10.17 | Sho_ | #kde'dotted |
| 07:10.18 | BrigadierFrog | heh |
| 07:10.25 | BrigadierFrog | by all of 3 people ;-) |
| 07:10.35 | S4mdf0o1 | FireBalled: you mean scripted on server side ? |
| 07:10.38 | qupada | me and moodin really never got along |
| 07:10.54 | AegeanLinux|ALi | qupada: and ... |
| 07:11.00 | FireBalled | S4mdf0o1: Actually I hadn't thought of that...why, are you talking about an IMAP account? |
| 07:11.05 | qupada | and nothing |
| 07:11.09 | qupada | just making the comment |
| 07:11.23 | S4mdf0o1 | FireBalled: yes, an imap account |
| 07:11.32 | AegeanLinux|ALi | http://www.aegeanlinux.be/tim/pix/ac4.png |
| 07:11.39 | Jucato | moodin? the KSplash engine? |
| 07:11.50 | AegeanLinux|ALi | That is the most recent image ^^ :-) |
| 07:12.11 | AegeanLinux|ALi | I should make a few screenshots for the aegconf and installer :-D |
| 07:12.30 | qupada | been an awfully long time since i've had folder background images too, don't actually remember turning them off |
| 07:12.34 | AegeanLinux|ALi | http://www.aegeanlinux.be/tim/pix/install_shots/snapshot8.png |
| 07:13.01 | FireBalled | S4mdf0o1: Then it sounds like it would make more sense server-side... |
| 07:13.12 | BrigadierFrog | AegeanLinux|ALi: why not contribute to arch linux instead? |
| 07:13.35 | Jucato | BrigadierFrog: and you're following SAS_Spidey01's line of thought now :) |
| 07:13.44 | AegeanLinux|ALi | BrigadierFrog: because AegeanLinux is different to arch, and it is about to use Frugals Package Manager :-) |
| 07:13.46 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: BTW, did you read the license in the Oxygen SVN dir stating that they don't wish their icons to be distributed at this point? |
| 07:14.01 | *** join/#kde AoA (n=Gost@195.252.89.196) |
| 07:14.03 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Sho_: I am not distributing them ^_^ |
| 07:14.25 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Plus, it has config tools, and Arch does not like that BrigadierFrog |
| 07:14.29 | S4mdf0o1 | FireBalled: then problem resids in the fact that I have a cyrus server, and found events to do so only in Courier-imap |
| 07:14.41 | Jucato | woudln't it be better then to have shots that showl Aegean Linux's default icon set? |
| 07:14.42 | BrigadierFrog | AegeanLinux|ALi: I doubt it would be hard to add a package to AUR |
| 07:14.53 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: That's the Oxygen folder icon there in ac4.png though, right? |
| 07:14.53 | AegeanLinux|ALi | BrigadierFrog: Aegean is DIFFERENT to arch. |
| 07:15.00 | AegeanLinux|ALi | There is no likeness ^_^ |
| 07:15.04 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Sho_: yes it is. |
| 07:15.10 | FireBalled | AegeanLinux|ALi: Doesn't Frugalware just use Pacman?? |
| 07:15.14 | qupada | Sho_: i think what he's saying is if you install his distro, you don't get them |
| 07:15.20 | *** join/#kde harmental (n=ricardo@AGrenoble-257-1-42-205.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:15.20 | qupada | and he's just using them himself |
| 07:15.24 | AegeanLinux|ALi | FireBalled: they use a libilized pacman |
| 07:15.44 | BrigadierFrog | pacman 3 perhaps? |
| 07:15.55 | *** join/#kde lnxkde (n=lnxkde@206.248.110.114) |
| 07:15.59 | AegeanLinux|ALi | yes, something like that, but it is a seperate tree to Arch's |
| 07:16.00 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: Not to mention those Microsoft icons there in that start menu ... |
| 07:16.34 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Sho_: no offence, but does the way I have _my_ desktop offend you ? |
| 07:16.35 | AegeanLinux|ALi | :-P |
| 07:17.00 | Jucato | I guess he just presumed those are the defaults in Aegean Linux |
| 07:17.05 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: Well if you're showing shots as representative of AeganLinux I have reason to assume they show defaults, don't I? |
| 07:17.11 | FireBalled | S4mdf0o1: Hmm...there's no way to run sieve filters after the mail has been received? |
| 07:17.22 | Jucato | wow read Sho_'s mind :P |
| 07:17.23 | AegeanLinux|ALi | I am not, I am showing shots as Tim, |
| 07:17.34 | AegeanLinux|ALi | hence the http://www.aegeanlinux.be/tim/ <=== /tim |
| 07:17.35 | Jucato | how were we supposed to know that? :P |
| 07:17.55 | AegeanLinux|ALi | If you want official images ... |
| 07:18.01 | qupada | next time you might just want to use imageshack/flickr/whatever |
| 07:18.04 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: btw, regarding "AeganLinux tempurary network setup utility" ... it's "temporary" ;) |
| 07:18.07 | S4mdf0o1 | FireBalled: I don't think so |
| 07:18.21 | AegeanLinux|ALi | http://www.aegeanlinux.be/gallery/main.php |
| 07:18.29 | BrigadierFrog | yeah, whatever that server you were using is god awefully slow |
| 07:18.33 | AegeanLinux|ALi | That are the "official" images |
| 07:19.03 | FireBalled | S4mdf0o1: what about a server-side cron? |
| 07:19.06 | Jucato | err??? |
| 07:19.14 | *** join/#kde mdo (n=13h7@p508A052E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:19.22 | S4mdf0o1 | FireBalled: nor to execute scripts from sieve -or I haven't found- |
| 07:19.25 | AegeanLinux|ALi | BrigadierFrog: quite a few people use the "update" function - as I look now there are 5 recent items in the log. |
| 07:19.28 | Jucato | funny I had to click the "no thumbnail" to get inside :P |
| 07:19.37 | Sho_ | Hm, that "default desktop" shot shows Konversation in the taskbar ... now I'm convinced the distro rocks |
| 07:19.46 | *** join/#kde harmental (n=ricardo@AGrenoble-257-1-42-205.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:19.59 | Renze | Sho_: thus is the power of brown-nosing :D |
| 07:20.07 | S4mdf0o1 | FireBalled: that's what I was using, but needs -after manipulation-, to reconstruct cyrus database when mail removed |
| 07:20.09 | FireBalled | the timeless art of sucking up |
| 07:20.11 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Sho_: ? |
| 07:20.18 | Jucato | lol @ Sho_ |
| 07:20.25 | FireBalled | Sho_ = Konversation maintainer |
| 07:20.26 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: I'm a Konvi developer ;) |
| 07:20.26 | S4mdf0o1 | FireBalled: that's not clean |
| 07:20.34 | AegeanLinux|ALi | I know that one ;-) |
| 07:20.43 | qupada | indeed Renze, the power of nasal-rectal interaction is strong |
| 07:20.46 | BrigadierFrog | Sho_: konversation is super nice by the way... :-) |
| 07:20.53 | AegeanLinux|ALi | But what has that got to do ( even if it is in AegeanDesktop ) |
| 07:20.53 | Sho_ | thanks :) |
| 07:20.54 | Jucato | hm.. ksnapshot is on the desktop? :) |
| 07:21.08 | Jucato | AegeanLinux|ALi: I think it was meant as a joke |
| 07:21.24 | S4mdf0o1 | FireBalled: like in dev : not setting globals, but passing parameters to functions... ^^' |
| 07:21.26 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: I was joking that I was convinced the distro rocks because the "Default Desktop" shot shows Konvi running ;) |
| 07:21.31 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Jucato: that is no longer part of AegeanDesktop :-) |
| 07:21.40 | FireBalled | S4mdf0o1: Hmm...I guess a local cron then...Kmail doesn't have a special mail store does it? |
| 07:21.50 | Jucato | AegeanLinux|ALi: well, you could have opted to install XChat as the default :P |
| 07:22.04 | BrigadierFrog | ew |
| 07:22.09 | AegeanLinux|ALi | And offend Renze, Jucato? No thank you. |
| 07:22.13 | BrigadierFrog | xchat is charging money for certain versions |
| 07:22.14 | Jucato | lol |
| 07:22.18 | AegeanLinux|ALi | He already wants to murder me ... twice |
| 07:22.23 | S4mdf0o1 | FireBalled: what do you mean by "special store" ? |
| 07:22.24 | Jucato | BrigadierFrog: for windows to be exact |
| 07:22.24 | FireBalled | who still uses xchat anyway? |
| 07:22.25 | AegeanLinux|ALi | BrigadierFrog: it is ? |
| 07:22.31 | Jucato | yes |
| 07:22.31 | *** join/#kde fildo (n=fildo@c58-107-108-125.livrp1.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 07:22.36 | Sho_ | For the Windows builds, yes. |
| 07:22.47 | Jucato | "You may use XChat for Windows for free for 30 days. If, after this time, you would like to continue using the product, you are required to register. Registration is a one time fee of $19.99 US (United States Dollars) which can be paid using the PayPal service below." |
| 07:22.49 | FireBalled | Does anyone know how Kmail stores its mail? Just regular mbox files right? |
| 07:23.00 | BrigadierFrog | probably because it takes so much effort to build it with gtk+ on windows (snicker) |
| 07:23.00 | Sho_ | FireBalled: yep |
| 07:23.00 | Jucato | FireBalled: afaik, yes |
| 07:23.19 | Renze | mbox or maildir, depending on configuration |
| 07:23.20 | AegeanLinux|ALi | so yeah, as you see, if you install AegeanDesktop, it installs a few apps + sets up QtCurve, and that is it :=) |
| 07:23.35 | Jucato | "Q. Why isn't the Windows version free? A. Building XChat for Windows is a difficult process, it requires quite some skill and expertise to accomplish. It takes time, and is by no means automated. This version also has some value added features only for Windows, such as opening irc:// URLs from your web browser in an existing instance of xchat, spell checking and graphical emoticons." |
| 07:23.38 | Sho_ | FireBalled: In KDE 4, it would be a sqlite database through Akonadi |
| 07:23.49 | FireBalled | S4mdf0o1: I would just use cron to scan your folder every minute or so and send those mails to the address you want |
| 07:24.09 | BrigadierFrog | Sho_: if kdelibs build on windows, would you supply free konversation for all? |
| 07:24.11 | Sho_ | Jucato: Gnome is too lame to offer irc:// support for XChat? Ouch ;) |
| 07:24.13 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Jucato: wow. Opens irc:// |
| 07:24.15 | BrigadierFrog | I can't help it I ahve to use it sometimes |
| 07:24.19 | FireBalled | Sho_: That sounds good...something like Automator now suggests itself... |
| 07:24.23 | AegeanLinux|ALi | that is a _special_ feature, aye ? |
| 07:24.31 | S4mdf0o1 | Okay, thanks FireBalled ! |
| 07:24.35 | Sho_ | BrigadierFrog: I have no intention of writing code for Windows, and we don't supply binaries in general |
| 07:24.39 | *** join/#kde Frost^ (n=sweiss@CBL217-132-84-6.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 07:24.41 | Jucato | Sho_: I don't care. Like I said, I'm only using this because I'm forced to :P |
| 07:24.45 | Sho_ | FireBalled: It exists and is called Workflow |
| 07:24.56 | FireBalled | S4mdf0o1: Np, sorry I couldn't be of more help |
| 07:25.05 | Sho_ | FireBalled: http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=43624 |
| 07:25.08 | BrigadierFrog | ah well, I can't say I use windows enough for it really matter |
| 07:25.09 | BrigadierFrog | :-) |
| 07:25.31 | Jucato | BrigadierFrog: all you need is for someone (other than Sho_) to port it |
| 07:25.35 | Sho_ | FireBalled: Very early development obviously, but big plans |
| 07:25.44 | S4mdf0o1 | I think it could be a new feature to attach scripts on KMail's folders events |
| 07:25.52 | *** join/#kde harmental (n=ricardo@AGrenoble-257-1-42-205.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:26.13 | S4mdf0o1 | FireBalled: np :P ;) |
| 07:26.18 | BrigadierFrog | well, honestly, if kdelibs is ported, and konversation uses mostly qt/kdelibs, it shouldn't that hard maybe ? |
| 07:26.24 | FireBalled | Sho_: Nice, hopefully this will integrate well with the database you mentioned |
| 07:26.44 | Jucato | BrigadierFrog: probably. but you still need someone willing to go the extra mile to do that |
| 07:26.52 | Sho_ | FireBalled: Well, note that KDE applications have been exporting a myriad of interfaces for things like that for ages, through DCOP |
| 07:26.55 | *** join/#kde paoleela_work (i=ssizzuci@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.net/session) |
| 07:27.05 | Jucato | given a choice between porting to win32 and improving the app, I'm sure most devs would prefer the latter |
| 07:27.11 | *** join/#kde doc_tomoe (n=thrasher@p549A8FFE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:27.11 | *** part/#kde S4mdf0o1 (n=S4mdf0o1@AToulouse-257-1-123-227.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:27.17 | BrigadierFrog | and I would agree with that |
| 07:27.22 | BrigadierFrog | like I said, I rarely use win32 |
| 07:27.24 | Renze | to hell with windows! |
| 07:27.26 | Jucato | :) |
| 07:27.41 | Jucato | Renze: could you at least wait for me to get back to Linux before you say that? :) |
| 07:27.51 | Renze | Jucato: of course not :P |
| 07:28.06 | Endler | Hey, ALi. I'm a Frugalware user. What are you moding in your distro? |
| 07:28.11 | Sho_ | Jucato: I believe Renze was merely evoking nostalgia. After all, today, Windows already is hell. |
| 07:28.17 | FireBalled | Interesting...in general KDE development seems far more decentralized than Gnome, for example, and yet its applications are better integrated |
| 07:28.26 | Jucato | Sho_: point :) |
| 07:28.36 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Endler: the initscripts, pacman uses LZMA, automakepkg |
| 07:28.37 | Sho_ | FireBalled: Because unlike Gnome, our technology doesn't suck |
| 07:28.40 | Renze | FireBalled: it's all about the framework |
| 07:28.44 | Sho_ | FireBalled: To put it in non-diplomatic terms |
| 07:29.04 | AegeanLinux|ALi | aegconf and a few things that might still pop up, depending if we get all done in time or not ^_^ |
| 07:29.06 | FireBalled | Jucato: You have company here in hell, as I am also on Windows :( |
| 07:29.07 | Jucato | FireBalled: probabaly thanks to kdelibs |
| 07:29.12 | Endler | They have it on their 0.6 todo to change the init scripts |
| 07:29.46 | Renze | then I think I'll watch Over the Hedge |
| 07:29.57 | BrigadierFrog | House is good |
| 07:29.58 | FireBalled | True, what a dramatic difference it's made |
| 07:30.00 | Renze | hasta mañana, ya'll |
| 07:30.20 | FireBalled | Gnome is a joke...I guess I won't find many people to disagree with that here though |
| 07:30.24 | Sho_ | FireBalled: KDE's application platform has always emphasized code reuse through a well thought-out component model, inter-process message passing through a communications bus, a GUI library that makes it very easy for application developers to create applications that follow KDE style and behavior guidelines, and other efforts |
| 07:30.32 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Endler: the initscripts in Aegean are abit like Gentoo's, with a depends= in the initscript, telling which etc/rc.d/ files to start :-) |
| 07:30.58 | Endler | For a small group of guys the Frugalware team does a hell a job of keeping a ton of packages very up to date. |
| 07:31.22 | BrigadierFrog | I'm going to say pacman probably contributes to that |
| 07:31.25 | FireBalled | Sho_: Also, if I understand the situation correctly, Qt is far superior to GTK |
| 07:31.46 | *** join/#kde sF|Xemanth (n=juho@hoste016.hamk.fi) |
| 07:31.49 | Sho_ | FireBalled: Well I'm obviously biased, but yes, I think it's clearly superior. |
| 07:31.56 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Endler: AegeanLinux has almost a perfect network config system, basically, you hok up 20 - 30 systems together, and you can change all the setting of the computer in a few clicks |
| 07:32.15 | Jucato | oh but GTK can have pixmap based styles |
| 07:32.21 | Jucato | *quack* |
| 07:32.36 | Endler | Sounds interesting |
| 07:32.38 | FireBalled | AegeanLinux|ALi: Can it be used on other distros as well? |
| 07:32.59 | Sho_ | FireBalled: It offers a broader range of functionality than Glib and GTK combined, it's cleaner designed, and draws upon the power of C++. Gnome's technology needs to do a lot of reinventing the wheel on top of C, for example Glib's horrendous GObject, and it's no fun. |
| 07:32.59 | AegeanLinux|ALi | FireBalled: with a bit of editing, it should be able to, but it is built for Aegean :-) |
| 07:33.24 | BrigadierFrog | Sho_: not to mention the name spaces gone to hell |
| 07:33.26 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Basically, the main thing that would need to be edited is the update module, to make it use your distro's package manager |
| 07:33.35 | BrigadierFrog | Sho_: and extendability issues |
| 07:33.43 | AegeanLinux|ALi | and all the config_* modules need the right location to files |
| 07:34.04 | Sho_ | FireBalled: The primary reason why Gnome's technology does have some level of success, in my view, is that it's licensed under the LGPL license, which allows one to write closed source software against it for free, whereas Qt licensed either under the GPL (so no closed source) or if you do want to go closed source, you need to pay Qt for a commercial license. |
| 07:34.18 | AegeanLinux|ALi | and then the /etc/functions needs to be changed to relate to the right names etc of packages |
| 07:34.34 | FireBalled | AegeanLinux|ALi: sounds good |
| 07:34.45 | Sho_ | FireBalled: That and geography: Gnome is a predominantly American project whereas KDE is predominantly European, and the American IT market is simply bigger, and yes, Americans are just a little better at enterpreneurship due to cultural tendencies. |
| 07:35.18 | FireBalled | Sho_: My thinking has always been that if you're closed source, you're probably commercial anyway, so why not fork over some cash |
| 07:35.22 | Jucato | that's a lot of explanations from Sho_. couldn't get more detailed than that :) |
| 07:35.23 | Endler | I wish everything wasn't so locked into C++. I'd like to to use Digital Mars' D language. |
| 07:35.52 | Jucato | well there are wrappers Endler |
| 07:35.57 | BrigadierFrog | for D ? |
| 07:36.10 | Jucato | you could make one probably :) |
| 07:36.16 | Sho_ | FireBalled: Well, Trolltech is financially healthy, so a lot of customers share your thinking. But companies like Sun who has pumped money into Gnome rather like that they can go proprietary without another party involved. |
| 07:36.24 | Sho_ | FireBalled: It's simply a control issue |
| 07:36.25 | FireBalled | Sho_: So you're saying the major corporate distros chose Gnome because it's American, or because the libs are LGPL? |
| 07:36.37 | BrigadierFrog | ooo, there's dgcc now |
| 07:36.41 | Endler | http://www.digitalmars.com/d/index.html |
| 07:36.47 | Jucato | probably the latter |
| 07:36.48 | BrigadierFrog | didn't realize someone was working on that |
| 07:36.55 | Sho_ | FireBalled: Both |
| 07:37.29 | Jucato | that, and probably because GTK has the full support of FSF and the GNU project... (if that counts at all) |
| 07:37.32 | FireBalled | I guess it makes sense that the corporate distros would want more control |
| 07:37.46 | Sho_ | Jucato: That's not very relevant in practice |
| 07:37.51 | FireBalled | Jucato: I doubt it, in this case anyway |
| 07:38.04 | Sho_ | FireBalled: It's not really about the distros as much as their customers, really |
| 07:38.12 | FireBalled | Red Hat (for example) probably doesn't care at all whether RMS is on board or not |
| 07:38.12 | Endler | wrappers what have been "almost done" for about a year and a half, lol. |
| 07:38.19 | *** join/#kde sabayonuser (n=sabayonu@43.159.216.81.static.ulr.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 07:38.37 | sredna | I have a bug related to fonts: The font installer can't show the oblique fonts, neither can kfontinstaller, nor are they selected for printing :( |
| 07:38.47 | FireBalled | Sho_: Is there any truth to the perception that Gnome is better for accessibility? |
| 07:38.52 | sredna | Can anybody confirm that? |
| 07:38.55 | *** part/#kde kopp (n=sabayonu@gentoo/userrep/kopp) |
| 07:39.44 | Sho_ | FireBalled: I don't think so. Accessibility is actually an area where KDE and Gnome programmers cooperate, i.e. the accessibiltiy developers from both KDE and Gnome have worked together on technology for the common cause |
| 07:39.55 | *** join/#kde d1zzy (n=dizzy@unaffiliated/developer) |
| 07:40.23 | Jucato | hm.. does KDE have an onscreen keyboard? |
| 07:40.34 | Endler | I just don't get the "there should only be one way to do every operation" philosophy thing. |
| 07:40.39 | d1zzy | ok, I got a very stupid question but dont know where to start looking into it. how can I disable the very annoying "feature" of konqueror of displaying some sort of "character hints" on the webpage when I click "left ctrl" key and release it (once) ? |
| 07:40.50 | BrigadierFrog | Endler: you prefer the perl method? |
| 07:41.21 | Sho_ | FireBalled: And KDE has stuff like system-wide text-to-speech that I *think* Gnome doesn't (but don't quote me on it :) |
| 07:41.23 | Endler | I was referring to gnome's philosophy for a UI, lol |
| 07:41.43 | FireBalled | Sho_: Good to hear there's some cooperation on that. Speaking of accessibility, I hope Gnash does well in that area |
| 07:41.44 | d1zzy | BrigadierFrog: dont know what you guys talk about but in programming languages (you bought perl into the discussion) I do prefer a compromise. I dont like something like perl but I dont like something like java (at least pre 1.5) either. I like something like C++ where I can either use pure OOP, or metaprogramming or combinations etc |
| 07:42.00 | Jucato | d1zzy: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1569 |
| 07:42.15 | Endler | C++ is a mess though |
| 07:42.22 | FireBalled | Endler: BrigadierFrog means that perl has many ways to do the same thing |
| 07:42.39 | Endler | I know |
| 07:42.52 | Sho_ | Endler: Note that KDE has very high quality bindings for Python and Ruby, and may gain Java bindings in the not too far future. |
| 07:42.53 | d1zzy | Endler: how come ? I still am suprised of how very well you can express some things with its template semantics |
| 07:43.12 | d1zzy | Jucato: thanks :) |
| 07:43.27 | BrigadierFrog | oh then I agree |
| 07:43.30 | Jucato | d1zzy: no problem |
| 07:43.44 | FireBalled | I'm more of a lisp guy, so if all of you ever need to agree on something, you can disagree with me ;) |
| 07:43.44 | BrigadierFrog | anyways, sleep time |
| 07:44.14 | *** join/#kde ilj (n=ilj@195.3.244.169) |
| 07:44.16 | BrigadierFrog | Endler: by the way, I've always liked the look of D |
| 07:44.43 | Endler | Yeah. The power of C++ cleaned up |
| 07:44.48 | BrigadierFrog | exactly |
| 07:45.02 | BrigadierFrog | what C++ should've been had Bjarne given up C compatability |
| 07:45.12 | FireBalled | Sho_: What is the best open source TTS engine? |
| 07:45.17 | Endler | Too bad they don't get all on the same page and make it usable with some gui |
| 07:45.17 | BrigadierFrog | but anyways |
| 07:45.20 | d1zzy | well thats the beauty of having a choice |
| 07:45.27 | d1zzy | you can chose D if you dont need backwards C compatibility |
| 07:45.33 | d1zzy | or C++ if you need it (like me) :) |
| 07:46.25 | d1zzy | Jucato: and it works, hehe, cool. I too though that it might be some accessibility related "feature" but looked over the kontrol settings and didnt find anything useful |
| 07:46.26 | Sho_ | FireBalled: I'm only aware of Festival, which I belive KDE's TTS system uses |
| 07:46.45 | Jucato | d1zzy: yeah they need to have an option for that in the menus... |
| 07:46.49 | Endler | Anyone ever write anything in ocaml? |
| 07:47.05 | AegeanLinux|ALi | FireBalled: Festival is the best, there is another one, but it is not very mature. |
| 07:47.12 | Endler | Looks pretty interesting. |
| 07:47.14 | FireBalled | is Festival BSD-licensed? |
| 07:47.21 | AegeanLinux|ALi | I can not think of the name from the top of my head though ... |
| 07:48.01 | FireBalled | AegeanLinux|ALi: FreeTTS? |
| 07:48.10 | Sho_ | FireBalled: as-is iirc |
| 07:48.36 | Sho_ | FireBalled: http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/gentoo-x86/licenses/FESTIVAL |
| 07:48.49 | AegeanLinux|ALi | FreeTTS is different, it is Java :-) |
| 07:50.22 | FireBalled | Sho_: Hmm, yeah this looks pretty similar to BSD/MIT |
| 07:50.46 | FireBalled | AegeanLinux|ALi: That doesn't mean it's not open source :p |
| 07:50.49 | *** part/#kde d1zzy (n=dizzy@unaffiliated/developer) |
| 07:51.14 | AegeanLinux|ALi | FireBalled: no, but it means it is not a normal language, like C or C++ :-) |
| 07:52.09 | Sho_ | Instead of "not a normal language" let's say "not a viable free software language" ;) |
| 07:52.38 | AegeanLinux|ALi | anything not "Free" is not "Normal" |
| 07:52.49 | AegeanLinux|ALi | I mean, look at Windows, you call *that* normal ? |
| 07:53.48 | FireBalled | Some definitions of "normal" certainly apply to Windows |
| 07:54.37 | FireBalled | But that reminds me, Sun has guaranteed Java will be open sourced under a license already approved by OSI |
| 07:55.08 | Sho_ | And it probably will be the CDDL, which was designed to be incompatible with the GPL, which sucks |
| 07:55.14 | AegeanLinux|ALi | FireBalled: a cleaned up version though ^_^ |
| 07:55.33 | *** join/#kde greister (n=greister@60.211.251.226) |
| 07:55.42 | FireBalled | Sho_: True, better than nothing I guess |
| 07:55.44 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Sun will still have a commercial version with a few extra features. |
| 07:56.09 | FireBalled | Probably like StarOffice, which nobody really uses |
| 07:56.14 | *** join/#kde floe (n=konversa@i577B1481.versanet.de) |
| 07:56.34 | Endler | Trolltech has a terrible licensing policy. They charge way to much to make it practical for individual independent programmers to do anything commercial with it. |
| 07:56.36 | AegeanLinux|ALi | notice the really though ;-) |
| 07:56.49 | Endler | too much |
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| 07:57.35 | *** join/#kde ilj (n=ilj@195.3.244.169) |
| 07:57.36 | FireBalled | Endler: Actually I agree with that, their licensing costs are insane. This is why we don't see KDE apps like those cool full-time single-developer OS X apps that keep popping up |
| 07:57.54 | Sho_ | (Thank god) |
| 07:57.56 | FireBalled | Endler: But I can live with that |
| 07:58.33 | Endler | If they were reasonable they could actually make more money and broaden their market. |
| 07:58.43 | Endler | Greed isn't doing them any good. |
| 07:59.13 | FireBalled | In a way they may be doing us a favor. Even if less apps are developed for KDE, at least the ones that are are virtually guaranteed to be open source. |
| 07:59.16 | Sho_ | It has nothing to do with greed. Commercial Qt simply isn't targeted at one-man development shops. |
| 07:59.33 | FireBalled | I prefer the almost forced integration of KDE to the "looks-only" integration of OS X any day. |
| 07:59.38 | Sho_ | FireBalled: Exactly. I certainly don't want a closed-source shareware economy on Linux. |
| 08:00.05 | Endler | Yes, BUT, what about, custom software for a single client? |
| 08:00.20 | Endler | Only applicable to their business? |
| 08:00.32 | Endler | Why should it be opensourced? |
| 08:00.56 | *** join/#kde Kim^J (n=Hagbard@firewall1.driftbolaget.se) |
| 08:01.01 | FireBalled | But if it's for a single client, why do we care if they use KDE or not? |
| 08:01.29 | FireBalled | I doubt anybody is going to switch to KDE for a single custom app |
| 08:01.29 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Sho_: it depends, commercial support is a good thing to have |
| 08:01.32 | Sho_ | Endler: So essentially you want to closed-source your custom software to do vendor lock-in on your clients |
| 08:01.40 | *** join/#kde war95 (n=war@iniquity.net) |
| 08:01.40 | AegeanLinux|ALi | eg flash, which 9 Beta is oUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 08:01.40 | Sho_ | Endler: Open source kinda thinks that stinks |
| 08:01.57 | Jucato | AegeanLinux|ALi: you should have screamed yesterday |
| 08:02.05 | AegeanLinux|ALi | ( I did ) |
| 08:02.07 | FireBalled | AegeanLinux|ALi: Have you tried it? I hear it's quite good |
| 08:02.16 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: You didn't pay for Flash 9, however |
| 08:02.22 | AegeanLinux|ALi | yes I have, I had it since Yesterday, and it rocks |
| 08:02.32 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Sho_: But what if they had Flash Studio ? |
| 08:02.45 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: Flash Studio isn't aimed at home users |
| 08:02.48 | Endler | No, it would be open to the customer, but why would they want to open it to everybody else? |
| 08:02.59 | FireBalled | Once Java is open-sourced, Flash is the last major propietary platform that matters, as far as I'm concerned |
| 08:03.06 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: And Adobe can (and has) afforded Qt licenses for that |
| 08:03.21 | Theory | your customer probably doesn't have a monopoly |
| 08:03.30 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: What Fireball said is that he regrets Trolltech Qt licenses are so expensive you don't see those $20-a-piece closed-source single-developer shareware apps like you see on OS X |
| 08:03.35 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: And I say "thank god" to that |
| 08:03.50 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Oh, I get you now |
| 08:04.02 | Sho_ | Endler: If it's open only to your customer, you don't need to open it to everybody else |
| 08:04.03 | FireBalled | Sho_: Actually I was saying I agree with it |
| 08:04.13 | Sho_ | Endler: GPL says you need to provide sources if you distribute |
| 08:04.23 | AegeanLinux|ALi | True, but I would not mind paying for things like Photoshop, or GTA if they had Linux versions, you know what I mean |
| 08:04.23 | Sho_ | Endler: You can perfectly sell GPL'd software |
| 08:04.55 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: Yes, but again, for Photoshop, Adobe can easily afford Qt licenses |
| 08:05.04 | benJIman | AegeanLinux|ALi: GPL does not mean you can't pay for your software. |
| 08:05.06 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: In fact, the commercial Adobe product "Photoshop Album" uses Qt3 |
| 08:05.16 | AegeanLinux|ALi | yeah, but I would still pay for *thier* commercial software |
| 08:05.21 | Endler | So, you're saying you can write custom code for a client and give access to the client and only the client and not pay trolltech's license? |
| 08:05.40 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Endler: yes, but you must give them the code |
| 08:05.44 | FireBalled | Endler: You could do that only if it's GPL |
| 08:05.44 | Theory | yes, although the client can give the code to other people if they want |
| 08:05.49 | benJIman | But they can redistribute it. |
| 08:07.03 | FireBalled | In other words, they can say, "That's the breaks, little man." |
| 08:07.26 | *** part/#kde SAS_Spidey01 (n=Terry@adsl-219-78-43.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 08:07.37 | Endler | Well, and long as they pay for the time to write it I don't care what they do with it afterwards. |
| 08:07.59 | FireBalled | But in these cases, the client would typically have a problem with it, wouldn't they? |
| 08:08.04 | AegeanLinux|ALi | How are IBM's POWER servers ? |
| 08:08.09 | Sho_ | AegeanLinux|ALi: As for Photoshop, I work in graphics and am a paying Photoshop user, but I still wouldn't mind seeing Krita replace it one day ;-) |
| 08:08.26 | FireBalled | AegeanLinux|ALi: What about them? |
| 08:08.33 | Jucato | go Krita :) |
| 08:08.38 | benJIman | 90% or more of people who use photoshop could use any of a large number of alternatives, and wouldn't use photoshop if they had to pay for it. |
| 08:08.41 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Sho_: neather would I, but that is not MY point ;) |
| 08:08.43 | physos | Endler: You earn your money with individual programmingand the Qt licence is too expensive to do closed source programs? How do you afford Visual Studio and the MS Developer Network subscription? |
| 08:08.49 | Jucato | who wouldn't mind KDE apps replacing <insert app here> wone day :) |
| 08:09.18 | FireBalled | physos: Doesn't MS have $50 versions of visual studio now? |
| 08:09.29 | benJIman | physos: it is not too expensive, it is a drop in the ocean for companies who can afford to employ developers |
| 08:09.37 | Endler | You can't get the universal subscription way, way discounted on Ebay. |
| 08:09.38 | Sho_ | Endler: And yes, you can use the GPL version of Qt, which means your program needs to be GPL too (and supplied to your customer under the GPL), and still demand they pay you for that delivery |
| 08:09.57 | physos | Endler: GPL, does not say free anywhere. |
| 08:10.04 | Sho_ | Endler: GPL means you need to supply sources, but you can still sell GPL software |
| 08:10.15 | benJIman | physos: even something that costs £10,000 is well worth it if it saves 1 developer half of his time. |
| 08:10.20 | physos | Endler: It only says you have to provide the source if somebody asks for it. |
| 08:10.23 | FireBalled | And of course your customer has the right to redistribute for free |
| 08:10.28 | physos | benJIman: my point. |
| 08:10.31 | Sho_ | FireBalled: true |
| 08:10.53 | Sho_ | FireBalled: But if he's going custom software for the client, his business is initial delivery and support, so that should work out okay |
| 08:10.54 | Endler | But what if somebody other than the company wants to see the source? |
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| 08:11.11 | benJIman | Endler: you are only obligated to give it to those you have supplied with the binaries. |
| 08:11.14 | physos | Endler: than you have to give it to them. Thats Open Source. |
| 08:11.17 | Sho_ | Endler: Then they're out of luck. You're bound to supply the sources to those who you distribute the software to. |
| 08:11.22 | physos | Endler: You can see the Qt source, too. |
| 08:11.23 | benJIman | Endler: but once they have the source they can redistribute it freely. |
| 08:11.29 | benJIman | physos: no, only to those who have the binaries. |
| 08:11.50 | physos | benJIman: No, to everybody asking for it. |
| 08:11.53 | Sho_ | Endler: But of course, your customer can do anything with the code it bought that the GPL allows, such as publish it |
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| 08:12.23 | Endler | So you don't have to give it to anyone you haven't given the binaries. That's why you'd only have to give the source to the client and not their competitors if they asked? |
| 08:12.31 | Sho_ | Endler: yes |
| 08:12.52 | Endler | That sounds good. |
| 08:12.57 | physos | uhm thats new to me. GPL reading onthe todo again. |
| 08:12.58 | FireBalled | So is the following a likely situation: Company A asks Endler to develop custom software B. Endler develops B with GPLed Qt, ships B to A with source, A doesn't care about the source being GPLed, Endler gets paid? |
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| 08:13.17 | Sho_ | FireBalled: yup |
| 08:13.36 | Sho_ | FireBalled: Nothing about the GPL would prevent that from happening, anyway |
| 08:13.47 | benJIman | physos: no , go read the GPL. |
| 08:14.00 | FireBalled | So, as long as the company and Endler don't redistribute the binaries, the sources are basically trapped |
| 08:14.00 | Jucato | isn't it also possible not to give the source together with the binary, and only give the source if they ask for it? (like what most distros do?) |
| 08:14.28 | Sho_ | Jucato: yeah |
| 08:14.29 | benJIman | Jucato: yes, but you must accompany the binaries with a written offer to supply the source on demand. |
| 08:14.47 | *** join/#kde simmerz (n=simmerz@82.111.212.201) |
| 08:14.49 | Jucato | well that's good. probably the client won't even want to look at the source code :P |
| 08:14.53 | sacha_ | Hello :). When I enable DRI in xorg.conf, the desktop wallpaper, icons and menu stop functioning. No icons present on desktop, default wallpaper. Everything else including taskbar and KDE menu still work. Any ideas? |
| 08:14.55 | physos | Endler: BTW, seen http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/licenses/licensing/smallbusiness |
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| 08:15.06 | Jucato | you can even charge for the "shipping" of the source code, iirc |
| 08:15.13 | FireBalled | Also, does this mean that as long as Endler and the company don't tell anybody else about the existence of this software, nobody else will ever even know it exists, and it doesn't matter that it's GPL? |
| 08:15.13 | Jucato | (of course at a reasonable price) |
| 08:15.22 | Sho_ | FireBalled: yup |
| 08:15.34 | Jucato | lol... it's like bending the rules a bit :) |
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| 08:15.47 | Sho_ | FireBalled: You can also take GPL'd software and modify it for in-house use and never give anybody the sources so long as you don't distribute binaries |
| 08:15.51 | FireBalled | Problem solved then I guess, as long as Endler has no problem with letting them see the source |
| 08:16.25 | Endler | Sounds like a plan :) |
| 08:16.26 | FireBalled | Sho_: That part I knew...it's just this situation of two parties having the software but no one else knowing about it that I hadn't thought of before |
| 08:16.36 | Endler | Confusing, to be sure. |
| 08:16.40 | Jucato | also the client has no obligation to give out the source to anyone who asks for it, unless they distribute the binary, right? |
| 08:16.48 | Sho_ | FireBalled: E.g.: If you download the Linux kernel, change something in it and install that on your box, you're not obligated to show anyone the change. But if you distribute a binary of that changed kernel, others can demand to see the sources. |
| 08:16.58 | Endler | You could be a lawyer specializing in open source law :) |
| 08:17.26 | FireBalled | Open source legal cases seem fairly rare |
| 08:17.29 | Jucato | ugh.. do I have to know *all* of this if I plan on becoming a developer... :( |
| 08:17.35 | Sho_ | FireBalled: Well, both scenarios illustrate the same point ... you need to show sources when you distribute, otherwise not |
| 08:17.40 | Jucato | license issues makes my head spin... |
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| 08:18.11 | Jucato | and even when you distribute, you have the option not to ship the source and the binary in the same package at the same time |
| 08:18.13 | benJIman | Jucato: if you read the licence itself it's very clear. |
| 08:18.19 | FireBalled | Sho_: I guess what I'm saying is, I always thought of it as either private or public, i.e., you keep it to yourself without showing source, or you show it to all...I hadn't thought of this situation where it's sort of semi-private |
| 08:18.30 | benJIman | Jucato: provided you understand English, legal english is some of the least ambigous |
| 08:18.45 | FireBalled | except for the united states constitution of course |
| 08:18.47 | Jucato | benJIman: theoretically, yes. but applying it to situations... if it were that clear, what need do we have of lawyers :) |
| 08:19.03 | Sho_ | FireBalled: Well, there's nothing in the GPL that says, if you give your two-line kernel patch to a friend, you need to create a website to show it to the world too ;) |
| 08:19.07 | benJIman | GPL is fairly clear cut tbh, compared to many things. |
| 08:19.23 | Jucato | yeah I've read some parts of it. |
| 08:19.42 | Jucato | but all the discussion recently with GPL v3 has made my head spin enough for me to drop it :P |
| 08:19.43 | FireBalled | Sho_: Hmm, makes sense. |
| 08:19.56 | physos | FireBalled: thing is, I am pretty sure that even distributing it _in_ a company (different parts or countries) is seen as distribution in the sense of the GPL by FSF. |
| 08:20.19 | Jucato | but FireBalled would still be required to provide the source to his friend *if* that friend asked for it (or if FireBalled wanted to give it) |
| 08:20.23 | Sho_ | physos: How's that an issue, though? :) |
| 08:20.31 | Endler | That being the case, why would any company doing in house development for their own systems ever have to pay Trolltech a dime? |
| 08:20.37 | novas0x2a | physos: i'm pretty sure i've seen a statement by the fsf declaring that they did not consider inter-company access "distribution" |
| 08:20.41 | FireBalled | Jucato: the two-line kernel patch _is_ the source ;) |
| 08:20.44 | Sho_ | Endler: Easy: They don't |
| 08:20.48 | Jucato | oh well :) |
| 08:21.00 | sacha_ | Hello :). When I enable DRI in xorg.conf, the desktop wallpaper, icons and menu stop functioning. No icons present on desktop, default wallpaper. Everything else including taskbar and KDE menu still work. Video card: Radeon 9600. KDE Version: 3.5.3. Xorg Version:7.1.1 Any ideas? I haven't been able to find anyone else with same issue :S. |
| 08:21.28 | FireBalled | physos: Actually that rings a bell, I seem to remember RMS saying something like that before |
| 08:21.50 | novas0x2a | and, oops, i meant intra-company |
| 08:22.04 | FireBalled | IANAL, but I think this would depend on who was actually accepting the license in the first place, the employee, or the company |
| 08:22.17 | FireBalled | If the company, then obviously it would not be distribution |
| 08:22.23 | physos | Endler: The magic word is superior support. |
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| 08:22.35 | physos | Endler: You are not only buying a license. |
| 08:22.57 | Endler | Wow, that's a big slices of pie for Trolltech to lose out on then--possible millions of dollars of licensing fees for fortune 500 companies running custom software across the enterprise. |
| 08:23.29 | Sho_ | Endler: Well Trolltech is a financially healthy company so apparently it works quite well |
| 08:23.31 | Endler | Is their support really that good? |
| 08:23.33 | physos | novas0x2a: Maybe they changed their opinion there. |
| 08:23.34 | FireBalled | Endler: I'm sure they knew what they were giving up when they went GPL, thank goodness for the pressure huh |
| 08:24.14 | physos | has anybody going about pressure read the QPL? |
| 08:24.29 | Sho_ | Endler: Okay, one additional complication: In the Qt 3.x area, only the X11 version of Qt was GPL'd, the Windows version was not. However with Qt4, there's a GPL Windows version too. |
| 08:24.33 | physos | was there anything not allowing to use it for inhouse? |
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| 08:24.45 | Sho_ | Endler: And not only that they're also GPL'ing the embedded version, QTopia. |
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| 08:24.54 | Sho_ | s/area/era/ |
| 08:25.47 | Endler | Well, this has been enlightening. I was under the impression that you couldn't deny anyone who asked access to the source in order to use it free. |
| 08:26.15 | Sho_ | Endler: That's probably the biggest misconception about the GPL, sadly |
| 08:26.31 | Jucato | Endler: as long as you didn't distribute it to that someone, you don't have to. |
| 08:26.41 | Jucato | of course, if you posted the binary on a web page for public viewing, then... |
| 08:26.42 | sacha_ | i'm wondering.. could you purposely obfuscate your code and put some errors in it -- then distribute it? |
| 08:26.42 | Sho_ | Endler: People frequently believe you can't do GPL in-house software because then you have to show the competition the sources to your in-house stuff, etc. - all not true |
| 08:26.46 | novas0x2a | physos: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#InternalDistribution |
| 08:27.14 | physos | novas0x2a: I just had the same interview with RMS in mind as FireBalled it seems :) |
| 08:27.17 | sacha_ | does GPL have anything against that? |
| 08:27.20 | Endler | Sounds perfect then. :) |
| 08:27.42 | Sho_ | sacha_: No |
| 08:27.57 | FireBalled | sacha_: If the obfuscated source compiles to the same binary, I guess not |
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| 08:28.03 | Sho_ | sacha_: In fact, some of the driver code in the Linux kernel is obfuscated like that, because it was written under NDA from hardware companies |
| 08:28.18 | sacha_ | but what if you changed the source a bit so it wouldn't compile and it was too difficult to fix because it was obfuscated? |
| 08:28.18 | Jucato | but then that would be morally wrong, even if it's legal... |
| 08:28.27 | Endler | The company would have to be very careful not to share with business partners though |
| 08:28.29 | sacha_ | i'm sure cedega do that ;) |
| 08:28.30 | Jucato | putting errors... |
| 08:28.37 | physos | novas0x2a: ah, memories come back. IIRC, the interpretation was about Cmpny Italia being a different organisation as Cmpny UK. |
| 08:28.41 | Jucato | er scratch that.. |
| 08:28.48 | FireBalled | sacha_: You have to distribute whatever source generates the binaries you're distributing, I think |
| 08:28.51 | novas0x2a | physos: ah |
| 08:28.52 | Endler | cause they wouldn't be able to dictate whether or not they could show anyone elsee |
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| 08:28.53 | FireBalled | sacha_: Well, legally, anyway |
| 08:29.04 | khaleel5000 | hi mates |
| 08:29.07 | *** part/#kde gruvby (i=gruvby@eyeoftruth.be) |
| 08:29.46 | novas0x2a | the GPL doesn't really allow obfuscation.. it's sort of a gray area, though |
| 08:29.54 | sacha_ | what if you use your own special compiler that sorts out the errors? |
| 08:29.58 | novas0x2a | "The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it." |
| 08:30.00 | physos | Endler: They can share, they just have to make regulations about the source according to GPL. Sicne everybody getting the binary has to have a chance to get the source. (thanks benJIman for putting the GPL on my todo again) |
| 08:30.28 | FireBalled | novas0x2a: Legally speaking, it would probably be easy to get away with obfuscation |
| 08:30.28 | novas0x2a | "For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable." |
| 08:30.44 | Sho_ | Endler: If they share it with a business partner, they're obligated to provide the source if the business partner asks for them |
| 08:30.48 | khaleel5000 | I am trying to install a new KDM theam , I have a howto that says i need to put the new kdm theam in my ~/.kde/share/apps/kdm/themes |
| 08:31.00 | novas0x2a | so if you made up your own compiler to break your obfuscation, you'd probably have to distribute that, too |
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| 08:31.09 | Endler | Yes, but can they require the business partner not to redistribute? |
| 08:31.17 | khaleel5000 | the problem is i have a /.kde/share/apps but not /.kde/share/apps/kdm so consequentsly NO /.kde/share/apps/kdm/themes |
| 08:31.34 | Sho_ | Endler: No |
| 08:31.37 | Jucato | khaleel5000: KDM themes would be in /etc/kde3/ I think |
| 08:31.52 | Jucato | or wherever KDEDIR is |
| 08:32.22 | Endler | So if they ask them not to and they do it anyway, they have no recourse |
| 08:32.48 | Jucato | of course, there are other Open Source licenses... |
| 08:33.01 | FireBalled | Endler: What if it was written into your contract? |
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| 08:33.13 | khaleel5000 | Jucato: i read got this howto from kde-look.org , ok so but there is no /etc/Kdxx folder as well |
| 08:33.16 | Endler | What about an employee of the company deciding to redistribute without company authorization? |
| 08:33.23 | khaleel5000 | Jucato: i have pclinuxos 0.92 |
| 08:33.37 | FireBalled | Endler: FAQ covers that, that doesn't change the licensing |
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| 08:34.07 | FireBalled | What if Endler released the sources to the client under GPL, but in a separate contract, the client promises it will not redistribute? |
| 08:34.39 | FireBalled | So then if the client redistributes, the software is still under GPL, but now Endler has some legal/financial recourse |
| 08:34.40 | khaleel5000 | Jucato: googing doesnot help , it gives me like 6 options only (all irrelevant ) (2 or 3 in chinese! ) |
| 08:34.46 | FireBalled | I'm not saying you would do this Endler, just a hypothetical |
| 08:35.08 | Sho_ | FireBalled: Then he could sue the client for damages, but whoever received the software from the client doesn't need to give it back ;) |
| 08:35.18 | FireBalled | Sho_: exactly |
| 08:35.20 | Sho_ | (nor the sources) |
| 08:35.39 | FireBalled | But in practical terms, if the damages were high enough, the client would not redistribute |
| 08:36.02 | *** join/#kde gambler (n=orion@203-206-102-63.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 08:36.03 | FireBalled | I bet this kind of thing would make RMS hopping mad |
| 08:36.04 | Jucato | khaleel5000: sorry, I use Kubuntu. usually the themes are in /etc/kde3/kdm/themes |
| 08:36.05 | Endler | I'm more thinking of company develops software for internal use only. Gets behind. Hires outside help. Gives them source, and then they have no legal recourse when they release source to competitor. |
| 08:36.42 | FireBalled | Endler: you mean the outside help? |
| 08:36.43 | cecule | How to change font in kpmquerors right panel (filemanager.mode) ? |
| 08:36.46 | Endler | Yes |
| 08:37.02 | khaleel5000 | Jucato: okiez , will google (my spelling for theme was wrong correct spell= theme, i said theam ) |
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| 08:37.07 | khaleel5000 | Jucato: thankyou |
| 08:37.09 | micra | Hi, Does anyone knows how to choose between 2 soundcards? It seems like it is randomly choosen on startup. |
| 08:37.26 | khaleel5000 | micra: filp a coin? |
| 08:37.27 | FireBalled | Endler: Sounds like this fits my hypothetical almost perfectly, the company makes the outside help sign a contract promising not to redistribute |
| 08:37.37 | FireBalled | or even an NDA? don't know |
| 08:37.55 | Endler | Yes, but that is incompatible with GPL, no? |
| 08:38.14 | AegeanLinux|ALi | micra: for KDE, in kcontrol |
| 08:38.16 | khaleel5000 | micra: i think it can be set via control panel of your distro (atleast I can setup which sound output It should use |
| 08:38.25 | AegeanLinux|ALi | just give the right /dev/ node ^_^ |
| 08:38.29 | khaleel5000 | micra: via your distros control or yeah K-control |
| 08:38.35 | cecule | How to change font in konquerors right panel (filemanager.mode) ? |
| 08:38.54 | FireBalled | Endler: I don't think so, because legally speaking, the outside help could still redistribute and the code would be under GPL, but he/she would not do so because of the contract (which could be, for example, a fee of $1 million) |
| 08:39.31 | *** join/#kde mandeep (n=mandeep@59.144.71.235) |
| 08:39.52 | Endler | So they could do it as long as they didn't mind not getting paid for their work? :) |
| 08:39.53 | khaleel5000 | Jucato: i set it through Kcontrol > KDM >install a new theam ....... solved ! |
| 08:39.54 | Jucato | cecule: Settings > Configure Konqueror > Appearance? (I think) |
| 08:40.11 | Jucato | khaleel5000: ehehe I forgot about that :P |
| 08:40.19 | Jucato | (actually I didn't know you were trying to install one.) |
| 08:40.36 | novas0x2a | Endler: the contract would specify damages in the amount necessary to make it financially ok for the company to have the source redistributed |
| 08:40.57 | Endler | Or the competitor agreed to pay more than they'd lose. |
| 08:41.05 | khaleel5000 | Jucato: yeah i didnot mention that :D , |
| 08:41.14 | khaleel5000 | thanks everyone bye |
| 08:41.15 | khaleel5000 | Jucato: bye |
| 08:41.19 | novas0x2a | Endler: and willful violation of a contract usually carries with it punitive penalties |
| 08:41.20 | FireBalled | Endler: For example, the contract specifies that if the help redistributes the software, he/she must pay the company $1 million. |
| 08:41.21 | cecule | Jucato: thx, but i already tried this |
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| 08:42.00 | FireBalled | Endler: Now, the help can redistribute the software legally under GPL, but must now pay $1 million to the company. |
| 08:42.52 | Endler | Is there any actual case law on any of this on the books? |
| 08:42.55 | novas0x2a | and, if the court finds that the help willfully distributed, the punitive damages can be up to three times the compensatory damages (under US law, iirc) |
| 08:43.10 | micra | I really cant find anythin in K-control |
| 08:43.14 | novas0x2a | Endler: contract law supersedes pretty much everything else under US law |
| 08:43.32 | FireBalled | novas0x2a: I think in order to avoid GPL conflicts, the distribution itself would not violate the contract |
| 08:43.59 | FireBalled | Endler: As for case law, I don't think so |
| 08:44.02 | AegeanLinux|ALi | sound & multimedia --> Sound System micra |
| 08:44.13 | AegeanLinux|ALi | Then hardware |
| 08:44.15 | novas0x2a | FireBalled: in my view, the contract determines the condictions as to which the two companies will be temporarily joined |
| 08:44.23 | AegeanLinux|ALi | and tick "Overide Device Location" |
| 08:44.25 | novas0x2a | basically, the terms under which the subcontractor becomes an agent of the company |
| 08:44.44 | AegeanLinux|ALi | and then fill in the /dev/ location for your sound card |
| 08:44.46 | FireBalled | novas0x2a: Yes, but the GPL itself is also an agreement between them isn't it? |
| 08:44.56 | micra | ahh, thx, ill try |
| 08:45.10 | AegeanLinux|ALi | KK., hope it goes good for your micra ^_^ |
| 08:45.25 | FireBalled | novas0x2a: My thinking is that instead of conflicting with the GPL, the contract will allow redistribution, but will require a fee |
| 08:45.36 | FireBalled | A fee that, in practical terms, is high enough to prevent redistribution |
| 08:45.49 | novas0x2a | FireBalled: hm. yeah, that would probably solve the problem better |
| 08:45.56 | novas0x2a | then there is no legal gray area |
| 08:46.10 | novas0x2a | no punitive damages either, though XD |
| 08:46.19 | Endler | The GPL allows a stipulation that you need to pay to redistribute? |
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| 08:46.38 | novas0x2a | Endler: no, but contract law would allow it |
| 08:46.44 | FireBalled | Endler: The question is, does the GPL specifically disallow it? I think the answer is no |
| 08:46.55 | Sho_ | Endler: No, but the GPL doesn't prevent you from entering another contract with a party you distribute to either |
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| 08:47.18 | novas0x2a | they both said it better than i did. |
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| 08:48.04 | Endler | Doesn't that essential render the whole GPL meaningless if you can't specify a fee of virtual infinity to redistribute? |
| 08:48.11 | Endler | you can |
| 08:48.37 | FireBalled | Even if this would work, it's only because of this custom software for client situation. Red Hat can't suddenly start doing this, because you haven't signed such a contract with them |
| 08:48.57 | novas0x2a | yeah, this requires a signed, separate contract |
| 08:49.00 | FireBalled | So no, the GPL isn't meaningless |
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| 08:49.19 | *** part/#kde gltripp (n=rbaum@nexplosion.de) |
| 08:49.26 | Sho_ | Endler: As FireBall says ... it's only viable in scenarios like "you and your client", not public distribution |
| 08:49.40 | Sho_ | Jucato: I indeed haven't |
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| 08:50.01 | Jucato | O_O |
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| 08:50.07 | Jucato | I admire you for that :P |
| 08:50.13 | *** part/#kde lemonhead (n=lemonhea@195.246.11.18) |
| 08:50.43 | mactek | Sho_ go get some sleep you crazy dillhole :P |
| 08:51.02 | Sho_ | too late :( |
| 08:51.06 | novas0x2a | could i get someone to glance at http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135977 ? it's sorta crippling my system, and i'm at a complete loss about how to proceed :/ |
| 08:51.31 | Endler | Well, you could have a disclosure box on the download page where you have to click OK to agreeing to pay a billion dollar fee if you redistribute ;) |
| 08:51.34 | Sho_ | novas0x2a: if bko would load, I would .. |
| 08:52.36 | FireBalled | I don't mean to poke fun but "Always worked fine until the problem started." made me smile :) |
| 08:52.53 | novas0x2a | FireBalled: no offense taken ;) |
| 08:53.03 | Sho_ | hmpf, second timeout while trying to load it |
| 08:53.14 | Sho_ | BKO does not like me this morning |
| 08:54.20 | Endler | I think we've pretty much covered most of the hypotheticals I can think of now :) |
| 08:54.35 | FireBalled | novas0x2a: This is definitely way out of my league, sorry :\ |
| 08:54.41 | Sho_ | And without resorting to a flamewar like in most license discussions |
| 08:54.44 | Sho_ | Impressive |
| 08:55.01 | Endler | It's been fun. I'd better get to bed. Goodnight everyone. |
| 08:55.08 | FireBalled | Wow, it never even occured to me that that this could have been a flamewar |
| 08:55.12 | novas0x2a | nity, Endler |
| 08:55.16 | FireBalled | Night Endler |
| 08:55.37 | Jucato | yeah :) |
| 08:55.46 | Jucato | very impressive indeed |
| 08:55.46 | Sho_ | night Endler |
| 08:56.10 | Sho_ | a _k_ivilized channel |
| 08:56.25 | Jucato | heh |
| 08:56.39 | Jucato | a very kultured channel |
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| 08:57.07 | FireBalled | klearly a killer diskussion |
| 08:57.08 | Sho_ | FireBalled: no kan do |
| 08:57.24 | Jucato | this is so kool :) |
| 08:58.33 | Jucato | now that the license diskussions are over, I've been dying to ask if there are any news about Akademy 2006 transcripts and videos |
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| 08:59.37 | Sho_ | Jucato: Michael Furlong is in the process of encoding the 400 GB of raw video |
| 08:59.45 | Jucato | whoa... |
| 08:59.45 | Sho_ | Jucato: He has no means for hardware encoding, so it takes a while |
| 08:59.53 | Sho_ | Jucato: Last estimate was "real soon now" |
| 08:59.57 | Jucato | how about transcripts? |
| 09:00.18 | Jucato | everybody should give him a beer after he's done :) |
| 09:00.33 | Sho_ | Jucato: The program pages on the Akademy website have slides from most talks now ... I assume if transcripts are going to be made they'll have to be made from the videos eventually ;) |
| 09:00.49 | Jucato | ah |
| 09:01.06 | Jucato | I thought maybe the speakers had their talks written down before hand, then would just post them online... |
| 09:01.18 | FireBalled | A great time to test speech recognition software |
| 09:01.22 | Jucato | some of the talks didn't have slides. but oh well :) |
| 09:01.51 | Sho_ | Jucato: Well video will come eventually and next year you'll just have to attend in person ;) |
| 09:02.03 | Jucato | lol :) |
| 09:02.17 | *** part/#kde mandeep (n=mandeep@59.144.71.235) |
| 09:02.22 | Jucato | how I wish |
| 09:02.26 | micra | AegeanLinux|ALi: What i write in "overide device location", doesnt seem to effect it. It is still the same soundcard whatever i write |
| 09:02.52 | oelewapperke | is it possible to make kmail save replies to messages in the folder they were replied to ? |
| 09:02.58 | *** join/#kde _human_blip_away (n=mike@220.157.65.29) |
| 09:02.59 | AegeanLinux|ALi | depends on your setup, better to ask in your distro channel :-) |
| 09:03.02 | oelewapperke | so that you can have a "conversation" overview like in gmail |
| 09:03.09 | Jucato | oelewapperke: yes I think so |
| 09:03.17 | oelewapperke | Jucato: any idea where to configure it ? |
| 09:03.25 | Jucato | I believe it's in the Sending tab of the Accounts option? |
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| 09:03.53 | oelewapperke | can't find it on that tab |
| 09:03.55 | Sho_ | oelewapperke: FWIW, there was a Google Summer of Code project to implement conversations in KMail that I assume will bear fruit in KDE4 |
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| 09:04.22 | Jucato | Sho_: doesn't threaded view already do that? |
| 09:04.23 | FireBalled | Wow, it seems like ever since M2 was released every email client has had to respond... |
| 09:04.44 | Sho_ | Jucato: Dunno ... |
| 09:04.53 | Sho_ | FireBalled: M2? |
| 09:05.01 | Jucato | Sho_: well it does, afaik. but not very efficiently imho |
| 09:05.25 | oelewapperke | I agree |
| 09:05.35 | oelewapperke | but still first thing to get there is to save your own messages |
| 09:05.43 | Sho_ | Jucato: Well I assume that the guy who put in a few months of work into conversations saw a need for that ;) |
| 09:05.56 | Sho_ | Jucato: Beyond the already existing threading |
| 09:05.59 | Jucato | oelewapperke: I think the option is "keep replies in <something>" |
| 09:06.11 | Jucato | Sho_: probably. otherwise why would he spend time for it :) |
| 09:06.21 | FireBalled | M2 = opera 7's email client |
| 09:06.22 | oelewapperke | I can make it BCC myself in the "identities" settings |
| 09:06.27 | Sho_ | FireBalled: ah |
| 09:06.36 | Sho_ | FireBalled: http://www.research.ibm.com/remail/ is an interesting email research project, btw |
| 09:06.40 | oelewapperke | is that the option you meant Jucato ? |
| 09:06.43 | Sho_ | FireBalled: I like the thread arcs idea |
| 09:07.37 | RockMan | ciao |
| 09:07.37 | Jucato | oelewapperke: not really |
| 09:07.37 | Jucato | hi RockMan |
| 09:07.37 | Jucato | oelewapperke: sorry I couldn't be more specific. I'm not on Linux... |
| 09:07.38 | FireBalled | Sho_: I remember this, have there been any updates recently? I remember checking twice a few months apart and there hadn't been any changes |
| 09:07.38 | Sho_ | FireBalled: Nah, it's been published and not touched since 2003 |
| 09:07.38 | tapas_ | any kmail developers around? |
| 09:07.52 | Jucato | tapas_: try #kontact? |
| 09:07.58 | tapas_ | Jucato: ah ok |
| 09:08.05 | Jucato | I don't know if there's a #kmail channel though |
| 09:08.31 | FireBalled | Sho_: But what are thread arcs? Is it what's on http://www.research.ibm.com/remail/threads.html |
| 09:08.40 | Sho_ | FireBalled: yeah |
| 09:08.49 | Sho_ | FireBalled: Note also the "Thread Arcs" item in the menu on the left ;) |
| 09:09.38 | FireBalled | Sho_: Ah, I missed that, thansk |
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| 09:10.39 | Jucato | whatever happened to the Seasons of KDE? |
| 09:10.43 | Jucato | projects... |
| 09:10.45 | FireBalled | Sho_: This is brilliant. Much more effective than what Gmail does, especially for large, complex threads |
| 09:13.26 | Jucato | I was really looking forward to this one... http://developer.kde.org/seasonofkde/project.php?touchscreen.xml |
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| 09:15.26 | FireBalled | Jucato: This sounds awesome. I bet it would be hard to get working correctly though |
| 09:15.34 | Jucato | yeah... |
| 09:15.42 | Jucato | and from the looks of it, no update since May :( |
| 09:15.46 | Jucato | too bad though |
| 09:16.52 | Sho_ | Well, the project description is ludicrous for a SoC project |
| 09:17.04 | Sho_ | The bullet point list at the bottom alone needs an army of developers |
| 09:19.13 | Jucato | it was too ambitious probably |
| 09:19.22 | Jucato | but stil a nice concept... |
| 09:21.01 | Jucato | Sho_: do you even have any plan to sleep? |
| 09:21.17 | Sho_ | Jucato: Not at present |
| 09:21.21 | Jucato | wow |
| 09:21.31 | Jucato | you must be on krack or something :) |
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| 09:21.46 | Sho_ | Jucato: Never :) |
| 09:21.58 | novas0x2a | i do that way more than i should |
| 09:22.21 | Sho_ | The only drug I indulge in is caffeine ;) |
| 09:22.43 | Jucato | kaffeine... |
| 09:22.50 | PsyTec | & tabacco |
| 09:22.52 | novas0x2a | caffeine and occasionally alcohol for me :) |
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| 09:26.05 | Sho_ | The topic is 'khtml: which IE and Mozilla bugs should we emulate today?' if that gives you an indication ;) |
| 09:26.13 | Jucato | lol :) |
| 09:26.28 | Jucato | is it ok for a non-dev to peep in? |
| 09:26.39 | Sho_ | sure |
| 09:27.09 | Jucato | ooh :) |
| 09:29.59 | novas0x2a | they should emulate the ie6 nameless-node-above-html-in-CSS |
| 09:30.24 | novas0x2a | i like the feeling that nodes are lurking just out of sight |
| 09:30.44 | novas0x2a | ready to POUNCE when you least expect it |
| 09:31.10 | Sho_ | you are clearly traumatized ; |
| 09:31.34 | novas0x2a | hehe |
| 09:32.51 | novas0x2a | actually, that bug was a fortunate one |
| 09:33.02 | novas0x2a | because it allowed you to very reliably detect ie6 |
| 09:33.28 | novas0x2a | if you told css to only apply to nodes above the html node, it would only and could only work on ie6 |
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| 09:45.22 | ChrisBradley | what is the name of the KDE desktop manager? |
| 09:45.31 | grothesk | kdm |
| 09:45.46 | ChrisBradley | where is it usually found under freebsd? |
| 09:45.52 | ChrisBradley | thanks btw |
| 09:46.10 | grothesk | I don't know anything about BSE. |
| 09:46.26 | ChrisBradley | ok |
| 09:46.28 | ChrisBradley | thanks |
| 09:46.37 | novas0x2a | okay, this is just annoying. i've run straces of both the (working) root and (nonworking) user, changed all the pids to symbolic names in each file, and am now comparing them side-by-side in vimdiff |
| 09:47.11 | Jucato | err... isn't KDM = KDE Display Manager? |
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| 09:47.42 | grothesk | Oh, sorry... |
| 09:48.00 | Jucato | no, I'm actually asking if they're the same? |
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| 09:54.58 | *** part/#kde grothesk (n=thomas@d463d12f.datahighways.de) |
| 09:55.00 | intrade | dump windows |
| 09:56.03 | *** join/#kde gribouille (n=rrrrrr@bdv75-4-82-227-67-147.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:57.13 | PhinnFort | Ace2016: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=28631 |
| 09:58.03 | Ace2016 | yup they are |
| 09:58.08 | Jucato | heh :) |
| 09:58.16 | Jucato | I won't even ask how they are related :P |
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| 10:00.47 | Ace2016 | brb, gone to get new hard disk before seeds disappear |
| 10:01.18 | Jucato | lol I knew it |
| 10:02.06 | tapas_ | ok, found the kmail prob: when hitting send after composing a message, kmail treis to send all mails in the outbox |
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| 10:02.16 | tapas_ | if one of them is bad, everything fails mysteriouslty -> bad |
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| 10:12.11 | lng | hello! who knows why do i have two files colored in red in Kompare, these files almost identical, but it says that all lines are different? |
| 10:12.53 | gribouille | lng, what does diff say ? |
| 10:12.56 | koala_man | maybe one file has dos eols? |
| 10:13.13 | qupada | one has tabs, the other has 8 spaces for each tab? |
| 10:13.42 | lng | gribouille: pardon? |
| 10:14.20 | qupada | lng: 'cr/lf' vs 'cr' line termination |
| 10:14.27 | gribouille | lng, you don't know diff ? |
| 10:14.42 | qupada | that could certainly do it |
| 10:14.51 | lng | gribouille: nope... |
| 10:15.03 | qupada | i made two copies of a text file and converted one to dos format, diff sees a lot of changes |
| 10:15.04 | lng | qupada: i gues so |
| 10:15.19 | qupada | lng: use the 'file' tool at the command line to see |
| 10:15.20 | lng | qupada: how to fix it? |
| 10:15.24 | gribouille | lng, that's a command that shows the differenece between two files |
| 10:15.34 | lng | gribouille: ah |
| 10:15.41 | qupada | it will say "ASCII English text" or "ASCII English text, with CRLF line terminators" |
| 10:15.49 | *** join/#kde solsTiCe (n=solsTiCe@d83-179-161-89.cust.tele2.fr) |
| 10:15.58 | qupada | there are apps called 'dos2unix' and 'unix2dos' to convert one to the other |
| 10:16.27 | solsTiCe | hi. in kde 3.5.5, it can't connect with cups 1.2.4 ??? why ? it works when i go to localhost:631. |
| 10:16.54 | solsTiCe | it worked in kde 3.5.4 |
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| 10:17.07 | qupada | lng: this what you're seeing? http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/395/20061020231037sx8.png |
| 10:17.22 | qupada | same file, i just ran 'unix2dos' on one copy |
| 10:17.24 | *** part/#kde physos (n=physos@kde/endres) |
| 10:18.11 | gribouille | I have reported several bugs about KDE, but I don't have any feedback. is it normal ? |
| 10:18.25 | lng | qupada: exactly! solution? |
| 10:19.00 | sacha_ | yes grib, use gnome |
| 10:19.02 | lng | qupada: sed? |
| 10:19.11 | sacha_ | jokes jokes, dont shoot me |
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| 10:19.17 | qupada | lng: well like i said, i have tools called 'unix2dos' and 'dos2unix', helpfully portage tells me they have no associated web page |
| 10:19.31 | gribouille | sacha_, I'm not ready to use gnome |
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| 10:20.39 | FireBalled | Well, that's it for me tonight. Goodbye all. |
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| 10:20.58 | paztulio | anyone has an idea why konqi displays german umlauts correctly, but kopete doesnt? |
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| 10:21.36 | novas0x2a | lng: app-misc/fixdos has a tool called crlf that will do it for you easily, too |
| 10:22.13 | lng | qupada: sed "s/cr/cr/lf/"? |
| 10:22.21 | qupada | lng: no |
| 10:22.34 | qupada | we're talking the line termination character |
| 10:22.42 | lng | qupada: yes |
| 10:22.50 | qupada | they have ascii codes <20 |
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| 10:23.24 | lng | # emerge dos2unix unix2dos |
| 10:23.53 | qupada | aye |
| 10:24.59 | lng | qupada: dos2unix a.txt b.txt? |
| 10:25.04 | qupada | no |
| 10:25.07 | qupada | just one filename |
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| 10:25.15 | lng | qupada: one? |
| 10:25.15 | qupada | converts the file in place |
| 10:25.21 | lng | qupada: ahh |
| 10:25.35 | lng | qupada: excellent! |
| 10:29.04 | qupada | you really should join a gentoo-* channel, more often than not i use /whois to figure out what distro a person is using when they ask questions :P |
| 10:29.38 | lng | qupada: novas0x2a: gribouille: thanx!~ |
| 10:30.46 | gribouille | lng, you're welcome |
| 10:30.50 | sacha_ | what distro am i using qup? ;) |
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| 10:32.10 | solsTiCe | "I'm suffering from another CUPS+KDE frustration right now." |
| 10:32.12 | solsTiCe | me too |
| 10:32.24 | solsTiCe | "It looks like KDEPrint is using some CUPS API functions which are explicitely declared private." |
| 10:32.27 | solsTiCe | fuck |
| 10:32.30 | solsTiCe | off |
| 10:32.38 | qupada | mine is working fine |
| 10:32.44 | sacha_ | cups eh? i dont even have a printer |
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| 10:35.12 | solsTiCe | Impossible d'extraire la liste des imprimantes. Message d'erreur renvoyé par le gestionnaire : |
| 10:35.12 | solsTiCe | Connection to CUPS server failed. Check that the CUPS server is correctly installed and running. Error: localhost: read failed (15). |
| 10:35.32 | solsTiCe | of course cups is running and well |
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| 10:36.16 | paztulio | solsTiCe: can you print a test page via the cups web interface? |
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| 10:37.15 | qupada | solsTiCe: if you run 'netstat -tln', does it show that something is in fact listening on port 631 |
| 10:37.19 | solsTiCe | of course |
| 10:37.37 | solsTiCe | tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:631 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN |
| 10:37.56 | paztulio | hmm, which cups version running? |
| 10:38.04 | solsTiCe | 1.2.4 |
| 10:38.26 | solsTiCe | i suppose the fix for the bug 115891 is wrong |
| 10:38.37 | paztulio | look at this thread, could help, maybe: http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/index.php?showtopic=44531 |
| 10:38.55 | qupada | solsTiCe: in the control module for printing, click print manager, configure manager, CUPS server |
| 10:39.07 | qupada | does it have the right settings in there? |
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| 10:41.31 | solsTiCe | it was trying to use my login with no passwd. i check use anonymous user but it still fails |
| 10:42.07 | qupada | better still, if you want to be able to configure it, give it the root password |
| 10:42.16 | solsTiCe | qupada: what are the right settings ? |
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| 10:42.49 | qupada | solsTiCe: well just make sure it's got 127.0.0.1 and port 631 in those boxes, i've seen it get some funny ideas in the past |
| 10:43.08 | solsTiCe | no there right |
| 10:43.30 | solsTiCe | when i enter the root passwd kdeprint still fails to find printers |
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| 10:43.44 | solsTiCe | i.e. when i click on go super-user |
| 10:44.13 | qupada | screenshot it |
| 10:44.18 | solsTiCe | ah ok i find them |
| 10:44.22 | solsTiCe | now |
| 10:44.31 | solsTiCe | some permission pb may be |
| 10:44.46 | solsTiCe | i/it |
| 10:45.19 | solsTiCe | oh no. i close kcontrol and now that fails again |
| 10:47.34 | qupada | see by now i would have given up, shitcanned printers.conf and cupsd.conf, replaced cupsd.conf with cupsd.conf.example and restarted it |
| 10:48.36 | *** join/#kde LinuxCart (n=LinuxCar@80.224.4.236) |
| 10:48.42 | LinuxCart | Hello |
| 10:49.18 | LinuxCart | how could I move the system tray to another place, i.e. top of the screen |
| 10:49.18 | LinuxCart | ¿? |
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| 10:55.46 | benJIman | LinuxCart: add it to a panel there, or move your existing panel to the top. |
| 10:57.00 | sacha_ | i.e., Settings->Desktop->Panels |
| 10:59.03 | LinuxCart | oh, thank you I see now more options to try |
| 10:59.12 | LinuxCart | great ! :) |
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| 11:00.34 | skyphyr | sorry for the embarassingly dumb question - my virtual desktops aren't in the taskbar (someone removed them) and I've not managed to figure out how to add them back |
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| 11:02.05 | shastry | skyphyr: right click |
| 11:02.07 | shastry | add applet |
| 11:02.27 | shastry | select and add "desktop preview and pager" |
| 11:02.34 | skyphyr | ahhh - thanks very much :-D |
| 11:02.41 | shastry | mp :) |
| 11:02.51 | skyphyr | ooo - there's a whole heap of neat things to add :-) |
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| 11:03.25 | skyphyr | only started using kde recently - after I started coding Qt and feel in love with it :-D |
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| 11:06.25 | sacha_ | hehe, have you checked out qt4? |
| 11:06.41 | bou\bbin | i can't use "scale" function of compiz with mouse (going for example TopRight of the screen), i can only activate it with the button (default Pause) . im on KDE with GNOME it worked ok. |
| 11:07.14 | skyphyr | yeah - qt4 is what I'm using for splish http://sourceforge.net/projects/splish |
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| 11:08.45 | sacha_ | splish-splash :) |
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| 11:15.32 | skyphyr | hehe - yep - qt4 is really nice :-) was kinda odd learning Qt3 after it to do some ktorrent stuff - made me realise how much they improved it (though 3 is nice too) |
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| 11:15.54 | sacha_ | have you tested out KDE4? |
| 11:16.08 | sacha_ | i havent even seen so much as a screenshot of it yet :( |
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| 11:16.29 | benJIman | sacha_: screenshots are not very exciting, little to no graphical work has been done yet. |
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| 11:16.40 | benJIman | maybe you'd like some screenshots of source code. |
| 11:16.48 | sacha_ | yeah, screenies of source code would suffice |
| 11:17.02 | benJIman | or you could just make them yourself. |
| 11:18.12 | ALi_Away | kde4 looks atm pretty much like kde3 |
| 11:18.32 | sacha_ | yeah, i don't know how much work they've done on it yet.. i guess a while to go yet |
| 11:18.45 | benJIman | sacha_: probably about a year still. |
| 11:18.46 | sacha_ | i really hope it ends up looking like some of those mockups in kde-look.org |
| 11:19.03 | novas0x2a | could i get someone to glance at http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135977 ? it's sorta crippling my system, and i'm at a complete loss about how to proceed :/ I've just added more information |
| 11:20.59 | skyphyr | no - haven't tested kde4 yet - though it's kinda tempting |
| 11:22.21 | solsTiCe | qupada: i have rm -rf /etc/cups and reinsatlled cups. still the same |
| 11:24.41 | fildo | hi all |
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| 11:32.00 | LinuxCart | Hello again |
| 11:32.17 | LinuxCart | I got the system tray on a new side panel |
| 11:32.45 | LinuxCart | but now the system tray just show the first app icon since it is oriende horizontally |
| 11:32.53 | LinuxCart | and the panel is vertical |
| 11:33.32 | LinuxCart | how could I change the system tray applet orientation¿? |
| 11:33.32 | hkBst | k3b complains about "System locale charset is ANSI_X3.4-1968". I just set all my LC_* vars. do i need to relogin? |
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| 11:41.52 | xushi | erm, can i set individual upload speeds per torrent in ktorrent ? |
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| 11:42.40 | xushi | eg i want total of 60k upload, but set to 20k per torrent with 3 torrents downloading. If i'm only downloading 1 torrent, i still want it to limit to 20k, and not max out to 60k |
| 11:43.28 | Commanace | hi. I was just playing around with the kdepim sourcecode. I just want to get an overview how it all works... |
| 11:43.28 | Commanace | so is thought i could try the following: the birthday resource always delivers the persons nicknames. I wanted to change that so that i get the real names. |
| 11:43.28 | Commanace | so i changed it in kdepim/kresources/birthdays/resourcekabc.cpp compiled it an ran it - but nothing changed. |
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| 11:43.36 | Commanace | Anybody an idea what the problem could be? |
| 11:43.40 | hkBst | xushi: you cheap shit ;) |
| 11:43.45 | Commanace | i used the 3.5 branch from svn |
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| 11:44.17 | Commanace | i'm new to KDE coding so perhaps it's a really stupid mistake |
| 11:44.22 | xushi | hkBst: sod it :) i've got a very limited connection for this year :) |
| 11:44.23 | LinuxCart | Commanace: there can be devs round here, but maybe is more useful for you going to #kde-devel |
| 11:44.30 | hkBst | xushi: I hate it when I'm upping 300KB/s and I'm getting only 20 back |
| 11:44.49 | Commanace | LinuxCart: oh, didn't know that channel, thank you! |
| 11:45.12 | xushi | hkBst: i know, but my limit is 120k for this year (bah...), and i need to divide it between torrent, amule, and normal browsing. |
| 11:46.25 | LinuxCart | Commanace: if it is kontact related you could also go to #kontact |
| 11:46.56 | xushi | i'm a azureus user myself, but trying to go all-kde, hence ktorrent |
| 11:48.55 | hkBst | xushi: it seems ktorrent can only set total speeds, not per torrent also. Does azureus let you do this? |
| 11:49.15 | xushi | yep |
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| 11:50.09 | hkBst | xushi: I guess you need to do a feature request |
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| 11:53.14 | xushi | will do , thanks |
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| 11:58.26 | LinuxCart | any idea for the vertical system tray issue¿? |
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| 12:00.38 | sacha_ | linuxcart: it just shows icons and you want what? |
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| 12:24.28 | Ace2016 | hi all me back |
| 12:25.57 | Ace2016 | for future reference can ktorrent move a half completed torrent to another directory on a different hard disk? |
| 12:26.37 | annma | Ace2016: how will ktorrent find it back? |
| 12:26.48 | annma | i doubt it scans all drives |
| 12:26.53 | Ace2016 | what do you mean find it back? |
| 12:27.00 | Ace2016 | i want ktorrent to move it to a different place |
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| 12:28.19 | annma | you want ktorrent to move it? |
| 12:28.33 | Ace2016 | yup |
| 12:28.47 | Ace2016 | oh so if i move it myself can ktorrent rescan it? |
| 12:29.24 | annma | i doubt it |
| 12:29.26 | annma | i don |
| 12:29.41 | annma | t know ktorrent as it is not part of kde official |
| 12:29.54 | annma | can't you wait until it finished? |
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| 12:31.19 | Ace2016 | what if i stop the download, remove it from ktorrent without telling it to delete it, then move the files, reopen the download and tell it to download to the new place, will it scan the files there? |
| 12:31.52 | annma | mail the author to find out |
| 12:32.05 | Ace2016 | no thats not good |
| 12:32.19 | annma | i doubt any torrent app will do that |
| 12:32.27 | Ace2016 | the better answer would have been to tell me to try it with a small file ;) i just thought of that :) |
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| 12:32.50 | annma | if you can set the torrent download dir you'll be OK |
| 12:32.55 | annma | in ktorrent |
| 12:33.09 | annma | in bittorrent I think one can |
| 12:33.18 | annma | bittorrent ui |
| 12:33.34 | Ace2016 | oh i was just thinking about from moving from azureus to ktorrent |
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| 12:34.08 | mfroes | hey |
| 12:34.16 | mfroes | i am havinf some problems |
| 12:34.20 | Ace2016 | I need this because of hard disk space, when disk space runs out downloads stop |
| 12:34.42 | annma | Ace2016: did you look at ktoorent webpage? |
| 12:34.48 | annma | seems not |
| 12:34.52 | Ace2016 | nope |
| 12:34.55 | mfroes | the radio buttons, checkbocks and stuff are having some problems |
| 12:35.06 | mfroes | i cant see if it's checked or not |
| 12:35.13 | mfroes | can anyone help ? |
| 12:35.14 | annma | Ace2016: so start there please |
| 12:35.19 | Ace2016 | ok |
| 12:35.22 | annma | mfroes: how? |
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| 12:35.54 | Ace2016 | Importing of partially or fully downloaded files |
| 12:36.01 | mfroes | annma, suddenly ... i think the color of when it's checked has changed to the same as the background |
| 12:36.13 | mfroes | annma, any ideas? |
| 12:36.27 | annma | mfroes: suddenly? you changed theme? |
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| 12:36.38 | annma | mfroes: did you try a new user? |
| 12:37.04 | mfroes | annma, have installed baghira, but has already changed to the default theme ans i get the same error |
| 12:37.51 | annma | mfroes: try a new user please |
| 12:38.38 | mfroes | annma, ok .. i'll logoff and come back again |
| 12:38.43 | annma | ok |
| 12:42.28 | skyphyr | xushi - I have a feeling there is already a feature request for this in |
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| 12:51.10 | mfroes | annma, hey .. i discovered ... it's just on some apps ... it's like on ekiga, eclipse, firefox ... but on kde apps, like kopete and stuff .. it's normal.. when i check it turns black |
| 12:52.16 | Ace2016 | oh i see |
| 12:52.22 | Ace2016 | well install the qtcurve theme |
| 12:52.27 | Ace2016 | then everything looks nice |
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| 12:55.06 | mfroes | is there a way to save my current theme ? |
| 12:55.26 | mfroes | if i just create one will it be my current one ? |
| 12:55.50 | Sutoka | i think so, KControl -> Appearance & Themes -> Theme Manager -> "Create New Theme" |
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| 12:59.31 | eth0 | hello all |
| 12:59.41 | eth0 | can someone help me with kdetv |
| 12:59.42 | eth0 | ? |
| 12:59.48 | eth0 | itt only shows black |
| 13:00.01 | darren3m | how does one go about getting the ICM profile for CMYK into koffice? |
| 13:00.06 | eth0 | and I cant exit from it |
| 13:00.33 | annma | darren3m: #koffice |
| 13:00.35 | eth0 | I need to reset |
| 13:01.30 | darren3m | yep - there now |
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| 13:05.54 | mfroes | even with another theme i cant see the contends |
| 13:06.01 | mfroes | and even with new user |
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| 13:06.15 | mfroes | damn fedora 5 |
| 13:06.31 | mfroes | any other ideas? |
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| 13:07.58 | Sutoka | mfroes: abandon fedora? ;-) |
| 13:08.06 | Sutoka | mfroes: are you not able to see text in gtk apps? |
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| 13:09.59 | mfroes | Sutoka, i cant ... it's the one used here on my work .. i cant change it i normally use gentoo .. i can do anything with it |
| 13:11.27 | mfroes | Sutoka, i can see all text but cant see if the checkbox and stuff is checked |
| 13:12.34 | Sutoka | mfroes: odd, are you using the gtk-qt theme engine for gtk? if you could somehow change the gtk theme to something that should (hopefully) fix it |
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| 13:13.46 | mfroes | Sutoka, true .. it began when i installed the gtk-qt ! i have forgot about that .. how can i change the theme ? |
| 13:14.35 | Sutoka | mfroes: KControl -> Appearance & Themes -> GTK Styles and Fonts -> adjust the GTK Styles to something else should do it (may have to restart gtk apps) |
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| 13:15.13 | xstasi | hi |
| 13:15.26 | xstasi | artsd dies with "can't create mcop directory" |
| 13:15.29 | xstasi | any suggestions? |
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| 13:27.01 | Ace2016 | anyone know a good html coding app, gui based? apart from nvu? |
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| 13:27.44 | xstasi | quanta or bluefish should be good |
| 13:28.41 | Ace2016 | so they're like dreamweaver/nvu? |
| 13:29.02 | mfroes | Sutoka, do i have to reiniciate the program to make it work or only apply ? |
| 13:29.28 | Sutoka | mfroes: probably restart the program |
| 13:30.15 | mfroes | Sutoka, you are the man !!!! |
| 13:30.27 | xstasi | artsd dies with "can't create mcop directory", any suggestions? |
| 13:30.31 | ixolit | Hello. How can I record video from my desktop ? Like print screen button, but video :-) |
| 13:31.12 | Sutoka | xstasi: disable artsd, set knotify to use 'play' from the sox package, and make sure ALSA is setup with software mixing if your sound card doesn't support hardware mixing |
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| 13:31.27 | Ace2016 | ixolit: xvidcap can do that |
| 13:31.28 | Sutoka | ixolit: theres vnc2swf, xvidcap and a few others |
| 13:31.34 | xstasi | Sutoka, i don't get it. |
| 13:31.43 | xstasi | i don't use kde.. |
| 13:31.54 | Sutoka | xstasi: what kde app are you using? |
| 13:32.01 | xstasi | ehr... "linphone" |
| 13:32.13 | xstasi | it gave me that error |
| 13:32.19 | mfroes | another thing .... i have java installed ... but on firefox and stuff it cant seem to work .. applets and stuff .. any ideas? |
| 13:32.23 | xstasi | i searched google, and found someone who solved by upgrading artsd |
| 13:32.27 | xstasi | i did it, and it worked |
| 13:32.27 | Sutoka | xstasi: i've never used that program, im not sure why it depends on artsd |
| 13:32.30 | Ace2016 | xstasi: I found this on google http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=394282 |
| 13:32.34 | xstasi | now it doesn't work anymore |
| 13:32.43 | Ace2016 | oh |
| 13:33.17 | xstasi | sonne@bullet:~$ artsd |
| 13:33.17 | xstasi | Creating link /home/sonne/.kde/socket-bullet. |
| 13:33.17 | xstasi | can't create mcop directory |
| 13:33.18 | xstasi | dead |
| 13:33.28 | ixolit | Ace2016, Sutoka, thx |
| 13:33.29 | xstasi | i think linphone uses artsd (don't know why) |
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| 13:33.52 | Sutoka | xstasi: do you have weird extra restrictive permissions setup for /tmp ? |
| 13:34.06 | xstasi | i don't think i have anything weird |
| 13:34.20 | xstasi | drwxrwxrwt 19 root root 4096 2006-10-20 15:30 /tmp |
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| 13:35.16 | Sutoka | xstasi: whats the permissions on /tmp/ksocket-<your user> ? |
| 13:35.46 | xstasi | there's no such file on /tmp |
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| 13:36.12 | xstasi | now i launched kget (a random kde app) |
| 13:36.17 | xstasi | and i have that.. |
| 13:36.23 | Sutoka | now try starting artsd |
| 13:36.26 | xstasi | oh hell |
| 13:36.28 | xstasi | it works |
| 13:37.04 | Sutoka | i guess linphone isn't actually a kde app then, just is qt and artsd maybe... |
| 13:37.49 | xstasi | tell it to linphone, if it was for me i wouldn't even have artsd installed |
| 13:37.53 | Ace2016 | So you use aoss instead? |
| 13:38.14 | xstasi | Ace2016, modprobe snd-pcm-oss should work :) |
| 13:38.15 | Sutoka | Ace2016: no, i disabled artsd, and have knotify use 'play' from the sox package |
| 13:38.36 | Sutoka | Ace2016: all my amarok and kaffeine use xine engine to output to ALSA |
| 13:38.57 | Ace2016 | alsa does perfect sound mixing but i still need to set up oss apps to use it |
| 13:39.10 | xstasi | all my audio apps use OSS. |
| 13:39.27 | Sutoka | Ace2016: use ALSA's OSS emulation layer |
| 13:39.36 | xstasi | <xstasi> Ace2016, modprobe snd-pcm-oss should work :) |
| 13:39.38 | xstasi | that's it :P |
| 13:40.15 | Sutoka | most distros that use alsa should come with that out of the box... |
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| 13:40.43 | Sutoka | fortunately most newer closed source apps are using alsa now-a-days (flash 9 beta uses alsa) |
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| 13:41.02 | xstasi | skype doesn't |
| 13:41.13 | xstasi | but skype is The Evil (tm) |
| 13:41.27 | Sutoka | skype doesn't really maintain it's linux client it looks like |
| 13:41.35 | xstasi | yep |
| 13:41.45 | xstasi | skype fools us |
| 13:41.51 | xstasi | they should all burn |
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| 13:44.38 | Ace2016 | modprobe snd-pcm-oss didn't work i still had to use aoss firefox to get sound on youtube |
| 13:45.20 | benJIman | xstasi: skype uses alsa now. |
| 13:45.47 | xstasi | Ace2016, i run FF without aoss |
| 13:45.51 | xstasi | and i see youtube |
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| 13:53.31 | Sutoka | Ace2016: flash 9 beta uses alsa |
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| 13:54.54 | bUscher- | uh there is a beta available? |
| 13:55.14 | bUscher- | 64bit? *wonders if* |
| 13:55.30 | benJIman | bUscher-: 64bit konqueror can use 32bit plugins anyhow. |
| 13:55.41 | bUscher- | hm? |
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| 13:56.00 | benJIman | You just need the 32bit nspluginloader installed, many distros do by default. |
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| 13:56.41 | Ace2016 | Sutoka: but flash 9 doesn't work with opera |
| 13:56.52 | Sutoka | Ace2016: i've noticed :( |
| 13:56.52 | Ace2016 | and i'm waiting until its in emerge |
| 13:56.57 | Sutoka | Ace2016: it is |
| 13:57.04 | Ace2016 | oh ok |
| 13:57.14 | Ace2016 | that was fast |
| 13:57.25 | Sutoka | it was in portage just hours after it was released |
| 13:57.34 | Ace2016 | wow thats nice |
| 13:57.49 | Sutoka | well, it was in portage sooner than that, it just took a while to get to all the mirrors |
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| 14:26.14 | sacha_ | what is the program that handles KDE's desktop? (wallpaper, alt+f2, icons, right click menu) .. for some reason it isnt loading |
| 14:27.08 | benJIman | sacha_: kdesktop |
| 14:28.10 | sacha_ | thanks |
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| 14:28.29 | sacha_ | kdesktop: error while loading shared libraries: libXss.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory .... i see |
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| 14:30.28 | annma | sacha_: hmm, how did you install kde? |
| 14:31.00 | sacha_ | from source, everything has been working fine -- this error just came up after i enabled direct rendering |
| 14:31.19 | sacha_ | i'm sure if i just d/l that file and put it where it should be it'll work :) |
| 14:31.34 | annma | you mean gentoo? |
| 14:31.41 | sacha_ | no, CRUX |
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| 14:37.21 | sacha_ | hope my desktop comes back :D |
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| 14:39.12 | sacha_ | yes! a desktop, :D |
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| 14:47.05 | sacha_ | one thing i noticed with kde, default font size seems huge -- what is that for i wonder |
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| 14:49.45 | benJIman | sacha_: different people have different tastes, at least most people will be able to read the default, I have it far smaller. |
| 14:50.14 | sacha_ | yeah it's just most OSes and window managers have it much smaller |
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| 14:54.52 | annma | sacha_: hmm, default was not huge for me |
| 14:54.58 | annma | i just compiled kde 3.5 |
| 14:55.21 | Jucato | sacha_: different distros also use different defaults |
| 14:55.25 | annma | default is SansSerif 10 |
| 14:55.34 | annma | that's KDE default |
| 14:55.52 | annma | it's not what i think of huge |
| 14:56.32 | stoned | I just burned my finger |
| 14:56.35 | stoned | I hope you're happy |
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| 14:57.34 | Jucato | O_o |
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| 14:59.37 | Peper | anyone got konqueror woking with nspluginwrapper? (amd64) |
| 14:59.50 | PhinnFort | Peper: no |
| 15:00.00 | PhinnFort | it finds the plugin, but it's just blank where flash should be |
| 15:00.00 | Peper | why is that? |
| 15:00.06 | Peper | indeed |
| 15:00.11 | Peper | any reason for that? |
| 15:00.35 | annma | do you guys compile stuff on 64? |
| 15:00.52 | annma | b4 are cheaper than intel duo |
| 15:00.56 | annma | 64 |
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| 15:01.41 | Peper | nspluginviewer (plugin): ERROR: Can't create plugin class |
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| 15:02.00 | Peper | konqueror ^^ |
| 15:02.33 | Sutoka | nsplugin32 should work for konqueror, do you have it on your distro? |
| 15:02.53 | Sutoka | konqueror64 for play 32bit plugins if you have nsplugin32 installed |
| 15:03.33 | Peper | Sutoka: no it doesn't work |
| 15:03.39 | Kyral | hmm how do I get KDE to stop automounting my IPOD |
| 15:03.41 | Peper | konqueror64 doesn't work with 32bit plguins |
| 15:03.52 | *** join/#kde hydrogen (n=hydrogen@perdition.campus.alfred.edu) |
| 15:03.59 | Peper | and it doesn't work with nspluginwrapper either |
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| 15:04.16 | Sutoka | you need the 32bit version of the nspluginloader library installed |
| 15:04.24 | Sutoka | then you don't need nspluginwrapper |
| 15:05.21 | Peper | Sutoka: and how would it work with konqueror64?\ |
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| 15:05.36 | sacha_ | im using sansserif 7 right now.. for me size 10 was huge :S |
| 15:06.51 | Sutoka | nsplugin doesn't run in the same process (i guess it just embeds its window), which is why if a plugin crashes it may not take konqueror down with it |
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| 15:07.57 | Sutoka | earlier benJIman mentioned that for konqueror 64 to use 32bit plugins all you need is the 32bit nspluginloader to be installed (last i looked theres an overlay for it on the gentoo forums, he said that many distros have it by default though) |
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| 15:08.04 | annma | sacha_: 10 is huge? |
| 15:08.13 | annma | what res doyou have? |
| 15:08.17 | sacha_ | yeah :S 1280x1024 res |
| 15:08.39 | sacha_ | it's not the same as 10 on others, for me :S |
| 15:08.55 | benJIman | Sutoka: indeed, it may not work on debian based distros though. |
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| 15:09.23 | solemnwarning | Where can I get a H.264 video codec for kaffeine? |
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| 15:10.21 | sheldonh | since i upgraded from kde-3.5.4 to kde-3.5.5 on gentoo linux, i've lost taskbar entry blink support. any ideas? |
| 15:11.18 | SimAtWork__ | entry blink support? |
| 15:11.21 | SimAtWork__ | what is that sheldonh ?? |
| 15:11.23 | sheldonh | yeah |
| 15:12.06 | sheldonh | like the taskbar (kicker) entry for a window doesn't flash for konqueror when a page on a different desktop finishes loading, or for kopete when a non-visible chat window receives a message |
| 15:12.12 | sredna | The taskbar blinks if a non-focused window changes |
| 15:12.44 | sheldonh | sredna: well, not the whole taskbar, just the entry for the non-focused window. yes, that's the behaviour i've lost |
| 15:12.57 | sheldonh | sredna: should i get excited about this being a known problem? :) |
| 15:13.07 | Sutoka | its working ok here on kde 3.5.5 on gentoo |
| 15:13.23 | sheldonh | bugger. not working for two of us in the office |
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| 15:13.57 | sheldonh | Sutoka: you using arts? |
| 15:14.08 | Sutoka | sheldonh: nope |
| 15:14.17 | sheldonh | Sutoka: damn, nor are we :( |
| 15:14.22 | Sutoka | when i upgraded i was, but i've disabled it since then |
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| 15:14.43 | sheldonh | Sutoka: when the originator of a package announces he thinks it sucks, i make another plan :) |
| 15:14.43 | Sutoka | though i don't have USE="-arts" set |
| 15:15.01 | sheldonh | Sutoka: sounds like you inherited the change from the 2006.1 profile |
| 15:15.04 | midnite__ | how do i get konqueror to merge two toolbars again? drag and drop seems to hate me. |
| 15:15.23 | Sutoka | midnite__: afaik you can't |
| 15:15.33 | midnite__ | :( noooo |
| 15:15.35 | sheldonh | Sutoka: anyway, if it's working for you, it must be possible to make it work for me, so i'll carry on bashing away. thanks! |
| 15:15.43 | Sutoka | a design flaw in xmlconfig or whatever its called |
| 15:15.45 | solemnwarning | Where can I get a H.264 video codec for kaffeine? |
| 15:15.55 | midnite__ | i can get the bookmarks to merge with the main toolbar, but not location with main toolbar |
| 15:15.59 | Sutoka | solemnwarning: are you using the xine backend in kaffeine (thats the default) |
| 15:16.10 | solemnwarning | Probably |
| 15:16.17 | Sutoka | solemnwarning: what distro? |
| 15:16.20 | solemnwarning | mplayer plays them ok |
| 15:16.21 | solemnwarning | Debian |
| 15:16.37 | midnite__ | funny thing is that was the way it was configured initially, but now i can't get it back again |
| 15:17.42 | Sutoka | solemnwarning: i've never used debian (for more than 5 minutes), so im not sure what package it would be in, maybe in "x264" or "x264-svn" |
| 15:18.16 | Sutoka | midnite__: yep, and the problem is theres no method to re-merge toolbars, afaik thats already fixed in liveconfig (or whatever its called) for KDE4 |
| 15:18.21 | solemnwarning | x264-bin - a free library for encoding H264/AVC video streams |
| 15:18.23 | solemnwarning | That? |
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| 15:18.34 | Sutoka | solemnwarning: probably |
| 15:19.17 | midnite__ | Sutoka: ok thanks for the info -- is there something i could delete under ~/.kde perhaps? |
| 15:19.56 | *** join/#kde msn (i=manpreet@unaffiliated/msn) |
| 15:19.59 | Sutoka | midnite__: if you delete the file that the app uses to configure it's toolbars, then it should go back to the default (merged) settings |
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| 15:20.36 | midnite__ | Sutoka: ok, thanks i'll try and see how far i get |
| 15:20.53 | xushi | hmm, i can't get javascript to work on konq. on localhost |
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| 15:22.20 | Sutoka | midnite__: ~/.kde/share/apps/konqueror/konqueror.rc <-- i think that may be the file (i think it also includes the shortcuts and other stuff, i would recommend just moving files and not actually deleting them) |
| 15:22.40 | solemnwarning | Sutoka: Installing x264-bin didn't work |
| 15:22.48 | Sutoka | xushi: is javascript enabled at Tools -> HTML Settings -> JavaScript? |
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| 15:22.53 | solemnwarning | Why won't kaffeine use the codec that mplayer is using? |
| 15:22.54 | Sutoka | solemnwarning: hm... :-/ |
| 15:22.56 | sacha_ | hmm the size 12 in konqueror is smaller than size 10 in KDE? |
| 15:23.27 | Sutoka | solemnwarning: kaffeine uses xine as the backend by default, and i think x264 has to be enabled at compile time for xine to use it |
| 15:23.47 | Sutoka | solemnwarning: kmplayer should work fine though, since it uses mplayer as its backend |
| 15:24.07 | solemnwarning | But I have to recompile kaffeine? |
| 15:24.07 | xushi | Sutoka: yes it is, and i even added allow to localhost there |
| 15:24.10 | Sutoka | sacha_: are the DPI settings on your monitors messed up? |
| 15:24.13 | xushi | erm, do i have to restart konq/ ? |
| 15:24.19 | sacha_ | possibly |
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| 15:24.25 | Sutoka | solemnwarning: xine, im not familiar with debian so im not sure what you're supposed to do |
| 15:24.33 | solemnwarning | Dammit :| |
| 15:24.34 | Sutoka | xushi: no |
| 15:24.47 | solemnwarning | I'll have to stick with kaffeine |
| 15:24.47 | sacha_ | where would i find/change those settings Sutoka? |
| 15:24.48 | Sutoka | solemnwarning: i think you can ask in #debian-kde or #debian |
| 15:25.19 | solemnwarning | Why does xine need to be compiled with it built in anyway? |
| 15:26.30 | Sutoka | sacha_: "cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log|grep -i dpi" <-- that should say what you're DPI is set to if you're using the NVIDIA drivers |
| 15:26.58 | sacha_ | (--) fglrx(0): DPI set to (95, 96) |
| 15:27.14 | Sutoka | oh wait, KInfoCenter -> X-Server -> then in Available Screens -> Screen # 0 -> the "Resolution" is what your DPI is set to |
| 15:27.25 | Sutoka | ok, then thats your dpi i guess |
| 15:28.01 | Sutoka | 95 x 96 seems to be kinda odd for the DPI |
| 15:28.09 | sacha_ | resolution says 96x96 |
| 15:28.14 | midnite__ | Sutoka: yeah i moved them around, didn't help though. but i managed to get the location bar on the main toolbar, so all is well again now :) |
| 15:28.52 | Sutoka | sacha_: if you're using KDE 3.5.5, in KControl -> Appearance & Themes -> Fonts -> is "Force fonts DPI" set to 96 DPI? |
| 15:29.43 | sacha_ | 3.5.3 doesn't seem to have that option :( |
| 15:30.13 | Sutoka | thats a new one for 3.5.5 |
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| 15:30.35 | sacha_ | would that 95x96 DPI option really make all fonts bigger? |
| 15:30.41 | Sutoka | maybe the fglrx drivers don't actually find the monitor's DPI, and just forces it to 96... |
| 15:31.02 | sacha_ | mm maybe an option i can put in xorg.conf |
| 15:31.29 | Sutoka | maybe, because my laptop using fglrx drivers and has the DPI set to 128x105 |
| 15:31.43 | Sutoka | so looks like it will auto detect it |
| 15:32.01 | Sutoka | though the fonts on my laptop are incredibly small... |
| 15:32.56 | sacha_ | yeah so i need to set mine higher? |
| 15:33.01 | sacha_ | xdpyinfo | grep resolution says 96x96 |
| 15:33.41 | Sutoka | either raise the DPI, or raise the font size |
| 15:33.55 | sacha_ | it thinks my monitor is 34 centimetres by 27 centimetres, so if i put real value in xorg.conf it should be right DisplaySize xxx yyy |
| 15:34.30 | Sutoka | afaik the DPI setting is supposed to make it so the size of 10pt font is the same on all monitors (except most OSes just force the DPI to 96 and ignore the monitor) |
| 15:34.43 | sacha_ | yeah it depends on screen size |
| 15:35.06 | sacha_ | apparently, for 17 inch monitor: DisplaySize 328 246 default: DisplaySize 340 270 |
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| 15:36.50 | sheldonh | so hot tip, if you haven't watched the Pure Pwnage series... you're missing out :) |
| 15:38.32 | annma | it takes half my desk |
| 15:39.09 | LinuxCart | does anyone of you get the system tray applet to work vertically instead of horzontally(as per default) |
| 15:39.28 | Jucato | LinuxCart: only if you set Kicker vertically, afaik |
| 15:39.35 | Sutoka | Jucato: 2560x1024 max res :-P |
| 15:39.44 | Jucato | grrr.. |
| 15:39.47 | LinuxCart | Jucato: I already tried taht but no success |
| 15:40.32 | Jucato | by "vertically" you mean that icons add up vertically rather than horizontally? |
| 15:40.32 | sacha_ | you had it vertically and icons werent vertical? |
| 15:40.48 | Sutoka | 1920x1200 is a PITA to read webpages on... |
| 15:41.27 | LinuxCart | sacha_: right |
| 15:41.30 | novas0x2a | my EDID-reported dpi used to be 95x96, and when i upgraded to the nvidia beta drivers, my dpi became 112x112 |
| 15:41.32 | LinuxCart | Jucato: right |
| 15:41.37 | LinuxCart | I'll try to show you |
| 15:41.56 | Jucato | LinuxCart: once you set Kicker vertically, I think you have to refresh/restart it for system tray to adjust |
| 15:42.09 | Jucato | I'll show you too :) |
| 15:42.16 | ilj | How does one make Konqueror's status bar disappear? I don't need it, in fact, but there's no option to hide it from neither the Konqueror's menu nor "Settings" dialog. What do I do to hide the status bar? |
| 15:42.22 | LinuxCart | Jucato: that's interesting |
| 15:42.23 | sacha_ | im gonna try this DisplaySize fix |
| 15:42.31 | Sutoka | "dcop kicker Panel restart" will restart the kicker |
| 15:42.35 | LinuxCart | should I kill and restart kicker |
| 15:42.37 | Jucato | http://jucato.multiply.com/photos/photo/2/59 |
| 15:42.45 | Jucato | or "dcop kicker kicker restart" |
| 15:42.53 | Jucato | http://jucato.multiply.com/photos/hi-res/2/59?xurl=%2Fphotos%2Fphoto%2F2%2F59 |
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| 15:43.15 | LinuxCart | Jucato: good! |
| 15:43.21 | LinuxCart | you were right ... :D |
| 15:43.28 | LinuxCart | it's much better now |
| 15:43.33 | sacha_ | :) |
| 15:43.39 | Jucato | :) |
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| 15:44.11 | Jucato | unfortunately i think you have to restart kicker everytime you adjust the width, when it's vertical |
| 15:44.17 | sacha_ | hm how would i go about making cd player run while in login? (instead of just after i logged in) |
| 15:44.23 | LinuxCart | thank you |
| 15:44.39 | LinuxCart | BTW I think I should report this |
| 15:44.47 | LinuxCart | I don't think you should need to restart kicker |
| 15:44.56 | LinuxCart | is this a bug or wishlist¿? |
| 15:45.08 | sacha_ | i dont need to restart kicker for that to work :S |
| 15:45.16 | sacha_ | what kde version? |
| 15:45.16 | Steinwookie | How does one get documentation on a KDE app? For example, kttsd/kttsmgr has no man pages, no HTML files, and the binaries give no useful info on --help. |
| 15:45.43 | LinuxCart | 3.5.5 mostly (debian testing) |
| 15:45.50 | *** part/#kde solsTiCe (n=solsTiCe@d83-179-161-89.cust.tele2.fr) |
| 15:45.53 | Jucato | Steinwookie: it probably doesn't exist? |
| 15:45.54 | sacha_ | http://accessibility.kde.org/developer/kttsd/ |
| 15:45.56 | Jucato | (yet) |
| 15:46.01 | Jucato | or there lol |
| 15:46.20 | sacha_ | linuxcart -- bug must be new in 3.5.5? doesnt happen here anyway |
| 15:46.27 | sacha_ | in 3.5.3 |
| 15:46.33 | LinuxCart | oh I see |
| 15:46.34 | Steinwookie | Jucato: ktts is KDE's pride and joy text-to-speech system --- it can't "not exist" :P |
| 15:46.43 | Jucato | hehehe |
| 15:46.47 | LinuxCart | I will report it |
| 15:46.50 | LinuxCart | thank you |
| 15:47.48 | Jucato | sacha_: also in KDE 3.5.4 |
| 15:47.56 | Peper | Sutoka: i have isntalled 32bit version of nspluginloader |
| 15:48.09 | sacha_ | so maybe a bug that just satrted in 3.5.4? |
| 15:48.10 | *** part/#kde midnite__ (n=m@d170101.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 15:48.10 | Peper | It scans and find 32-bit plugins but it still doesn't work |
| 15:48.37 | Sutoka | Peper: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-216959.html <-- that page is on the gentoo forums about setting it up, im reading it right now |
| 15:48.47 | Jucato | sacha_: probably.never tested in 3.5.3 :) |
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| 15:52.05 | Peper | Sutoka: I have read that |
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| 15:52.19 | Peper | isntallation went smooth, even the scan for plugins |
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| 15:58.21 | poopybutt | in every message box there is a format bar. i want to turn that off. i go to settings and unselect it, but every new box puts the format bar there |
| 15:58.32 | poopybutt | how do i keep it permanent |
| 15:58.33 | LinuxCart | Could I change the name of one of my bug reports¿? |
| 15:59.05 | Jucato | I dont' think so :) |
| 15:59.09 | Jucato | s/dont'/don't |
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| 15:59.54 | Jonny | Hi - is there a way to disable the Alt shortcut from selecting the context menu? |
| 16:00.11 | Jonny | I only need it for a specific window, but I can't seem to find it in the GUI |
| 16:00.32 | Jonny | There was one setting which I changed from 'Alt' to 'Meta' (whatever that is), but it didn't help |
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| 16:05.25 | mfroes | hey .. do anyone uses ekiga around here ? |
| 16:06.36 | poopybutt | does anybody use toilet paper around here? i dont |
| 16:06.50 | ilj | I'll repeat: How does one make Konqueror's status bar disappear? I don't need it, in fact, but there's no option to hide it from neither the Konqueror's menu nor "Settings" dialog. What do I do to hide the status bar? |
| 16:06.55 | mfroes | poopybutt, thats not a joke |
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| 16:11.14 | LinuxCart | ilj: I think it's not possible |
| 16:11.53 | ilj | there must be a trick |
| 16:12.22 | Jucato | hm.. |
| 16:12.30 | Jucato | not really sure. how about Configure Extenstions? |
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| 16:13.16 | ilj | extensions? what extensions are you talking about? |
| 16:13.50 | Jucato | maybe the status bar is an extension? like I said, not really sure... |
| 16:13.55 | Jucato | Settings > Configure Extension... |
| 16:14.07 | ilj | yup got it already |
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| 16:15.54 | ilj | the question is still not answered, how does one hide statusbar in Konqueror's main window? |
| 16:16.02 | ilj | uhm |
| 16:16.17 | ilj | perhaps I should ask developers.... |
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| 16:22.01 | Sutoka | ilj: i don't think theres an option to remove it |
| 16:23.40 | Jucato | *gasp* |
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| 16:23.57 | Jucato | something uncustomizable in KDE? |
| 16:24.54 | sacha_ | try alt+f3 -> advanced -> special window settings in konqueror |
| 16:25.06 | sacha_ | i havent looked thru it all yet, but it could be in there |
| 16:29.13 | ilj | sacha_, no go |
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| 16:30.03 | sacha_ | :( |
| 16:30.55 | bou\bbin | some applications wont go to tray, KDE (compiz) open them to desktop, they are like "undocked from tray" can I do something for it ? |
| 16:31.13 | *** join/#kde nixternal (n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal) |
| 16:32.23 | Jucato | hi nixternal! :) |
| 16:33.55 | nixternal | quit following me ;) |
| 16:34.17 | Tm_T | Hi kids. |
| 16:34.31 | Jucato | lol |
| 16:34.38 | Jucato | ooh Tm_T is here too :) |
| 16:34.43 | Jucato | nice to see familiar feces |
| 16:34.46 | Jucato | faces! |
| 16:34.48 | Jucato | I meant faces... |
| 16:34.57 | Tm_T | You call me feces?!1 |
| 16:35.02 | MinceR | lol |
| 16:35.32 | Jucato | sorry sorry... |
| 16:35.36 | Jucato | :S |
| 16:36.03 | sacha_ | ilj: try editing the profile /usr/share/apps/konqueror/profiles/ and add something at the bottom like View0_StatusBar=off |
| 16:36.24 | SimAtWork | hahah |
| 16:36.25 | SimAtWork | what a typo |
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| 16:36.42 | Sutoka | funny typos, its what IRC is all about |
| 16:37.13 | Jucato | and considering how far "e" is from "a"... it's a terribly bad typo... :( |
| 16:37.14 | ilj | sacha_, yeah, I found that trick already, but didn't get what file is to be edited... thanks! I'll try it right away |
| 16:37.58 | sacha_ | i think i got the line wrong though.. it's View0_something anyway :P |
| 16:38.22 | Tm_T | Jucato: ;) |
| 16:38.56 | sacha_ | google says: View0_ShowStatusBar=false |
| 16:39.31 | sacha_ | didnt work here :( |
| 16:39.44 | Jucato | maybe they should add that to the KDE Secret Config Settings? |
| 16:40.14 | ilj | sacha_, i wonder if a user has to restart kde after modifying these files |
| 16:40.32 | ilj | ViewT0_ShowStatusBar=false * |
| 16:40.32 | sacha_ | hmm but you can save a profile and it works right away.,. ? |
| 16:40.43 | ilj | according to the naming policy presented in the files |
| 16:40.45 | sacha_ | what's the T for? |
| 16:40.50 | ilj | agree... |
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| 16:40.54 | ilj | no idea, honestly |
| 16:41.14 | ilj | but webbrowsing and filemanagemnt options all strat with ViewT0_ |
| 16:41.25 | sacha_ | hmm my webbrowsing is all View0 |
| 16:41.32 | sacha_ | RootItem=View0 |
| 16:41.38 | ilj | no go... |
| 16:41.52 | ilj | it goes like this: |
| 16:41.56 | ilj | ViewT0_LinkedView=false |
| 16:41.56 | ilj | ViewT0_LockedLocation=false |
| 16:41.59 | ilj | etc |
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| 16:42.23 | sacha_ | i'm going to make a new profile |
| 16:44.46 | ilj | are you through sacha_? |
| 16:44.57 | sacha_ | hmm |
| 16:46.04 | ilj | what! no go?! :] |
| 16:46.15 | sacha_ | hmm my changes arent working there |
| 16:46.39 | sacha_ | and i noticed the url for webbrowsing was about:... when really it is google |
| 16:46.39 | ilj | bad |
| 16:46.42 | *** join/#kde nixternal (n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal) |
| 16:46.47 | sacha_ | so maybe it's in a different location |
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| 16:47.53 | sacha_ | here: /home/sacha/.kde/share/apps/konqueror/profiles/webbrowsing |
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| 16:48.28 | sacha_ | there we go!! :D ilk :) |
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| 16:48.31 | sacha_ | ilj* |
| 16:48.35 | ilj | i was editing very this file too |
| 16:48.58 | ilj | did statusbar disappeared? |
| 16:49.13 | ilj | did statusbar disappeare*? |
| 16:49.36 | ilj | jeez |
| 16:50.01 | ilj | sacha_, what exactly did you put into that file and where to? |
| 16:50.37 | sacha_ | i see the ViewT0 now |
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| 16:51.09 | sacha_ | ViewT0_ShowStatusBar=false |
| 16:51.11 | sacha_ | it worked |
| 16:51.19 | sacha_ | in: /home/sacha/.kde/share/apps/konqueror/profiles/webbrowsing |
| 16:51.25 | ilj | damn |
| 16:51.31 | ilj | it doesn't work for me |
| 16:51.35 | sacha_ | i have no statusbar :D |
| 16:51.41 | ilj | what's your KDE version? |
| 16:51.55 | ilj | 3.5.4? |
| 16:51.57 | Jucato | even after restarting Konqi? |
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| 16:52.30 | sacha_ | yes |
| 16:52.30 | ilj | Jucato, no, even after restarting it |
| 16:52.35 | sacha_ | 3.5.3 KDE |
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| 16:52.44 | Jucato | maybe something new? |
| 16:52.46 | Jucato | hm.. |
| 16:52.52 | ilj | sacha_, what section did you put that line under? |
| 16:52.59 | ilj | [Profile] ? |
| 16:52.59 | sacha_ | i just added it to end of file |
| 16:53.07 | ilj | oh |
| 16:53.08 | sacha_ | yes |
| 16:53.13 | ilj | how witty of you :D |
| 16:53.23 | sacha_ | hah, you had it at start of file? |
| 16:54.05 | ilj | finally |
| 16:54.08 | ilj | it worked |
| 16:54.11 | *** part/#kde LinuxCart (n=LinuxCar@80.224.4.236) |
| 16:54.13 | sacha_ | :) |
| 16:54.19 | ilj | I just reloaded the Profiel from Menu |
| 16:54.21 | Jucato | hehe :) |
| 16:54.23 | ilj | good |
| 16:54.26 | *** join/#kde nixternal (n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal) |
| 16:54.40 | ilj | thank you for participation sacha_ :] |
| 16:54.49 | sacha_ | i wanted no status bar too :) |
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| 16:56.06 | ilj | i configured my konqi so that address bar is positioned at the boottom of main window, so that status bar gets set above it which looks just horrible to me. |
| 16:56.28 | ilj | it used to, to be correct ^_^ |
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| 16:57.06 | _root | where is apt-get or synaptics in kanotix |
| 16:58.38 | Sutoka | kato007: where the binaries are located? |
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| 17:13.10 | kato007 | ok thanks should have remembered that |
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| 17:19.06 | Sutoka | does everyone have the error box that says: "KDEInit could not launch 'kinfocenter'." pop up when ever they try and launch KInfoCenter? |
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| 17:19.38 | Jucato | heh.. it's been there since KDE 3.5.x I think |
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| 17:19.58 | PhilRod | yeah, it's a known bug (it's on bugs.kde.org somewhere) |
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| 17:20.06 | Jucato | old bug.... |
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| 17:20.18 | Sutoka | wow, 2 entire instances of KDE (that aren't sharing any libs, 1 is 32 bits, the other is 64bits) and several applications open and im not even using 512 megs of ram |
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| 17:25.38 | ilj | sacha_, does konqueror show status bar when you use tabs? I just found out that the trick we applied lets hide status bar only not in the tabbed mode. I you open a tab you'll get the status bar shown. That sucks. |
| 17:26.24 | Ace2016 | hi all |
| 17:26.40 | Ace2016 | anyone know where i can ask about how do make a html page |
| 17:28.10 | Rez | #web |
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| 17:28.43 | main2 | uhhhh, my kdesu stopped working somehow (guess that it happend after i killed it.. kill -9 or something) |
| 17:28.48 | Ace2016 | ? |
| 17:28.48 | Ace2016 | I'm trying to make this: http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=googleig9.png |
| 17:28.49 | Ace2016 | Opera looks ugly there, i need to make a new theme for it too |
| 17:28.49 | Ace2016 | Anyway how do i find out how to make that page with html? |
| 17:28.49 | main2 | is there anything i can try.. ? |
| 17:28.51 | Ace2016 | i'm trying to use nvu |
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| 17:29.43 | Ace2016 | Thanks |
| 17:31.21 | Sutoka | Ace2016: maybe ask in #nvu? nvu isn't a kde app (its based on mozilla composer, and started by linspire) |
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| 17:31.57 | Ace2016 | oh sorry, i don't know whats what, all my apps look the same |
| 17:32.02 | main2 | does kdesu or kdesud has a config file ? |
| 17:32.17 | main2 | my kdesu seems to be broken (doesnt function / do anything anymore) |
| 17:32.20 | Ace2016 | main2: Are you trying to use kdesu without a password> |
| 17:32.25 | *** join/#kde logixoul (n=logixoul@85.187.223.202) |
| 17:32.27 | main2 | nops |
| 17:32.31 | main2 | it worked before......... |
| 17:32.34 | Ace2016 | main2: So what are you trying to do? |
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| 17:32.42 | Ace2016 | it stopped working? |
| 17:32.42 | logixoul | can ktorrent import a partially downloaded torrent? |
| 17:32.56 | Ace2016 | logixoul: go to the homepage and look at the bullet pointed list |
| 17:33.06 | logixoul | k |
| 17:33.20 | Ace2016 | logixoul: Importing of partially or fully downloaded files :) |
| 17:33.22 | logixoul | thanks |
| 17:33.36 | main2 | Ace2016: well 'kdesu kwrite' or 'kdesu ksomething' returns/echo's nothing on the prompt |
| 17:33.42 | main2 | it just doesnt function anymore |
| 17:33.56 | main2 | i already rebooted 2 times... |
| 17:34.06 | main2 | so its not kdesud which got stuck i think? |
| 17:34.07 | Ace2016 | main2: same here |
| 17:34.19 | Ace2016 | main2: there is no konsole output for that |
| 17:34.22 | Ace2016 | it stays blank |
| 17:34.22 | main2 | kdesu --help << does work.. |
| 17:34.38 | main2 | Ace2016: but it doesnt start the programs either.. |
| 17:35.17 | main2 | hmmmmmmmm.... |
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| 17:35.25 | main2 | kdesu kate <<< does work |
| 17:35.58 | main2 | LOL |
| 17:36.06 | main2 | some way or the other, it started to work again :| |
| 17:36.19 | Ace2016 | well at least its working again |
| 17:36.34 | main2 | yop :-)) |
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| 17:38.12 | WorkRoey | smileaf: hi |
| 17:38.29 | WorkRoey | smileaf: I came across an enhancement of yours on kde-apps.org. what's this stop/reload button of yours all about? |
| 17:40.06 | logixoul | WorkRoey: merges the stop and reload button |
| 17:40.17 | logixoul | WorkRoey: they're mutually exclusive anyway |
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| 17:40.47 | logixoul | smileaf: i don't like it though |
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| 17:41.05 | logixoul | smileaf: it's a race condition |
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| 17:42.47 | smileaf | perhaps |
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| 17:43.25 | logixoul | you can avoid that with a short flipping animation during which you can't click it |
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| 17:43.32 | smileaf | I almost never use the stop button but there are times that I do want it. |
| 17:43.45 | oxez | Hi. I have a small question: When I add a new panel (supose I add it to the top of my screen), how can I resize 'that' panel (in height). When I right-click on it, and set it's size to 'Small', only the bottom panel changes, which makes non-sense to me :/ |
| 17:44.06 | logixoul | oxez: does this panel contain a menubar? |
| 17:44.14 | oxez | no |
| 17:44.21 | oxez | I only want a taskbar in it |
| 17:44.54 | logixoul | oxez: iirc at the top of the config dialog there's a combobox where you choose the panel to set up |
| 17:45.02 | logixoul | oxez: find the top one there |
| 17:45.41 | logixoul | smileaf: in konq or in all kde apps? |
| 17:45.46 | oxez | I never saw this, will try! thanks! |
| 17:45.55 | smileaf | logixoul: in as many apps that has that option. |
| 17:47.08 | smileaf | that have* |
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| 17:49.17 | smileaf | logixoul: that short animation idea tho does sound interesting.. absolutely no idea how to do it tho, but I do like the idea. |
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| 17:49.53 | logixoul | smileaf: subclass qtoolbutton? |
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| 17:51.07 | smileaf | logixoul: it can display animated images or would I have to do something simular to the animated K in konqi? |
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| 17:52.40 | smileaf | http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65321#c10 <--- I love it when people comment on things.. but never explain the why. especially when the comment is already known. :) |
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| 17:53.41 | WorkRoey | logixoul: thanks |
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| 17:57.21 | ian| | Hi! I'm looking for "best practise" for syncing my calendar and contacts. So I thought about a "master" server with public IP. With that I sync my desktop PC and my laptop. Whats the best protocol for that? Just simple "fish" to the vcf/iCal files? Or is there any better solution? |
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| 18:16.44 | daniele_ | ciao |
| 18:17.10 | daniele_ | c'è qulache ragazza che vuole chattare con me |
| 18:17.35 | annma | english only please |
| 18:17.45 | *** join/#kde liquidat (n=liquidat@4560-02bg04.stw-wh.uni-jena.de) |
| 18:18.01 | daniele_ | there is something that want chat with me |
| 18:18.51 | *** mode/#kde [+o annma] by ChanServ |
| 18:19.03 | daniele_ | ehi |
| 18:19.04 | annma | daniele_: kde questions only here |
| 18:19.20 | daniele_ | escuseme |
| 18:19.22 | *** mode/#kde [+o pinotree] by ChanServ |
| 18:19.30 | daniele_ | i don't understand |
| 18:19.33 | daniele_ | bye bye |
| 18:19.36 | annma | pinotree: I am ready |
| 18:19.40 | annma | lol |
| 18:19.56 | pinotree | annma: in the ban list, he should be stanislao |
| 18:20.11 | pinotree | (probably) |
| 18:20.13 | PhinnFort | rofl |
| 18:20.16 | annma | how come he cam then? |
| 18:20.48 | pinotree | another nick + another indent |
| 18:21.00 | pinotree | but it's jsut a wild guess |
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| 18:21.32 | PhinnFort | he looked like dialup |
| 18:21.51 | annma | anyway we scared him! |
| 18:22.06 | PhinnFort | lol |
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| 18:24.03 | pinotree | PhinnFort: it's not dialup, but dynamic ip adsl |
| 18:24.11 | PhinnFort | ah |
| 18:24.35 | logixoul | smileaf: afaik qtoolbutton doesn't have native animation support, so you could use code from the throbber indeed :) |
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| 18:24.48 | smileaf | logixoul: throbber? |
| 18:24.56 | logixoul | smileaf: animated K logo |
| 18:25.00 | smileaf | Oh |
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| 18:29.37 | smileaf | logixoul: any idea where that is? :) |
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| 18:29.47 | logixoul | brb |
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| 18:30.19 | PhinnFort | is it the konqueror animation you're talking about? |
| 18:30.26 | PhinnFort | up in the right corner while browsing? |
| 18:30.30 | logixoul | yep |
| 18:30.39 | pinotree | the throbber... |
| 18:31.00 | PhinnFort | ah |
| 18:31.13 | PhinnFort | i just learned a new inglirs word |
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| 18:33.42 | PhinnFort | the first netscape throbbers where quite cool, actually |
| 18:34.16 | logixoul | they were necessary |
| 18:34.35 | smileaf | yah.. considering the load times :) |
| 18:34.50 | PhinnFort | :P |
| 18:36.02 | Ace2016 | strange windows seems faster than linux |
| 18:36.22 | smileaf | I've heard explorer runs in kernel space :S |
| 18:37.02 | BrigadierFrog | Ace2016: for a single solitary task... maybe, for several tasks happening at once, no way |
| 18:37.11 | PhinnFort | not even for a solitary task |
| 18:37.16 | miekko | it's my experience with gentoo that windows is slower |
| 18:37.20 | PhinnFort | i can tune my kernel on-the-fly |
| 18:37.28 | antik | I've heard that solitaire runs in kernel space.... BULLSHIT |
| 18:37.29 | miekko | some precompiled linuxes may be slower than windows |
| 18:37.50 | miekko | or some badly compiled linuxes |
| 18:38.00 | PhinnFort | emission-sources has a very cool utility for tuning the kernel for server performance, gaming-performance, etc. |
| 18:38.30 | antik | programs that is "optimized" for processor architecture are slower, bigger and buggier |
| 18:38.32 | miekko | i'd also say slackware is faster than windows on the hardware I have used |
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| 18:38.42 | PhinnFort | antik: ? |
| 18:38.57 | PhinnFort | that just didn't make sense |
| 18:39.22 | PhinnFort | and kde with hiddeninvisibility on gentoo is way snappier than winblow |
| 18:39.23 | PhinnFort | s |
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| 18:39.38 | antik | for example: if you compile your app for Opteron then it won't run faster than app with 486 optimization |
| 18:39.52 | PhinnFort | of course it will |
| 18:39.59 | antik | prove it |
| 18:40.18 | PhinnFort | try compiling mplayer for 386 and compare it to one compiled for x86_64 |
| 18:40.23 | PhinnFort | *k8 |
| 18:40.39 | antik | and you'll see that 386 binary loads and works faster |
| 18:40.59 | PhinnFort | what kind of logic did you use to come to that conclusion? |
| 18:41.04 | smileaf | antik == troll? :) |
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| 18:41.17 | antik | I have used Gentoo |
| 18:41.22 | PhinnFort | i use gentoo |
| 18:41.35 | antik | this FUD about optimizations is bullshit |
| 18:41.39 | PhinnFort | lol |
| 18:41.47 | PhinnFort | it's minimal, but it is present |
| 18:41.55 | PhinnFort | and very much so in math-intensive apps |
| 18:41.55 | antik | Gentoo is actually slower than all other os out there |
| 18:42.05 | antik | it just "feels" faster |
| 18:42.06 | antik | IMHO |
| 18:42.09 | Dasnipa][ | right... |
| 18:42.10 | WorkRoey | ahahaha |
| 18:42.10 | smileaf | Haha |
| 18:42.11 | PhinnFort | antik: hmmm |
| 18:42.16 | Dasnipa][ | lol so off base |
| 18:42.33 | PhinnFort | antik: all the benchmarks in the world are currently working against you |
| 18:42.36 | BrigadierFrog | antik: actually, there are several flags in gcc that can make apps (especially math intensive ones as mentioned) go nearly twice as fast |
| 18:42.37 | WorkRoey | maybe if ya recompile the kernel |
| 18:42.38 | PhinnFort | sorry |
| 18:42.38 | WorkRoey | with -O4 |
| 18:42.40 | antik | what benchmark? |
| 18:42.48 | BrigadierFrog | namely -ffast-math |
| 18:42.53 | WorkRoey | and -f-unroll-loops |
| 18:43.05 | BrigadierFrog | unroll loops is crap |
| 18:43.08 | PhinnFort | con kolivas benchmark |
| 18:43.17 | Theory | mmm www.funroll-loops.org |
| 18:43.18 | PhinnFort | antik: try using Viper's patchset, and see for yourself |
| 18:43.19 | BrigadierFrog | there's almost no sense in that |
| 18:43.22 | PhinnFort | Theory: :D |
| 18:43.26 | antik | what the point if app runs faster- it crashes twice as fast then? |
| 18:43.31 | BrigadierFrog | -ffast-math on the other hand... |
| 18:43.42 | alsuren | WorkRoey: unrolling loops is only worth doing if you have some reliable profiling information |
| 18:43.50 | WorkRoey | ;) |
| 18:43.50 | PhinnFort | antik: there's several months since an app crashed on me |
| 18:43.53 | BrigadierFrog | antik: when your working with image processing in realtime, it matters actually |
| 18:44.02 | PhinnFort | and when rendering 3d stuff |
| 18:44.04 | PhinnFort | like in blender |
| 18:44.09 | PhinnFort | or when encoding vide |
| 18:44.11 | PhinnFort | o |
| 18:44.17 | BrigadierFrog | PhinnFort: um, no |
| 18:44.23 | smileaf | CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -march=k8" <-- definitely not a ricer ;) |
| 18:44.23 | WorkRoey | Theory: see, funroll-loops.org looks innocuous because to people unfamiliar with computers and GNU, it sounds like a fruit loops advertisement. |
| 18:44.26 | BrigadierFrog | you walk away anyways |
| 18:44.34 | WorkRoey | smileaf: =) hee hee hee |
| 18:44.36 | antik | 3d I understand but all other apps like openoffice is just impossible to optimize |
| 18:44.43 | WorkRoey | god damned oo.o |
| 18:44.49 | PhinnFort | openoffice is crap, btw |
| 18:44.56 | WorkRoey | so is mozilla. |
| 18:44.57 | PhinnFort | it doesn't even compile on amd64, afaik |
| 18:44.58 | WorkRoey | /firefox. |
| 18:45.01 | BrigadierFrog | antik: antik trying to make crap run faster than crap isn't going to happen |
| 18:45.03 | PhinnFort | 2. that |
| 18:45.05 | smileaf | koffice ftw! :) |
| 18:45.05 | WorkRoey | PhinnFort: now it does |
| 18:45.19 | PhinnFort | WorkRoey: heh, i might try it again then:D |
| 18:45.26 | PhinnFort | koffice is really getting there |
| 18:45.26 | alsuren | smileaf: I think I probably beat you (on an amd64) |
| 18:45.40 | smileaf | alsuren: o? |
| 18:45.42 | WorkRoey | I know it's now in debian sid/amd-64 |
| 18:45.45 | WorkRoey | finally |
| 18:45.45 | alsuren | CFLAGS="-O2 -march=pentium3 -pipe" |
| 18:45.46 | alsuren | CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu" |
| 18:45.55 | PhinnFort | CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -march=athlon64 -fno-ident -frename-registers" |
| 18:46.02 | PhinnFort | LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--hash-style=both" |
| 18:46.08 | PhinnFort | :D |
| 18:46.18 | smileaf | alsuren: your thats really the same thing.. expect different processor =p |
| 18:46.29 | BrigadierFrog | this conversation has gone to crap, good day |
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| 18:46.33 | PhinnFort | lol |
| 18:46.56 | smileaf | BrigadierFrog: when was this conversation not crap? lol |
| 18:47.08 | alsuren | it's because I just rsync onto my P3 box when I wanna get gentoo running |
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| 18:48.53 | alsuren | FEATURES="$FEATURES splitdebug" is nice for *actually* getting backtraces out of drkonqui as well |
| 18:49.28 | smileaf | splitdebug? thats a new one |
| 18:49.33 | antik | when Konqueror start working correctly with PHP? |
| 18:49.40 | PhinnFort | antik: lol |
| 18:49.53 | PhinnFort | it does |
| 18:49.56 | PhinnFort | ;) |
| 18:50.10 | antik | I'm talking seriously- impossible to use phpBB sites |
| 18:50.33 | antik | it freeze for 20-30seconds if you select some text (sometimes) |
| 18:50.34 | PhinnFort | erm, php is server side |
| 18:50.40 | smileaf | antik: first.. konqueror doesn't handle php .. the web servers handle php.. konqueror handles the html the php from the web server sends it ;) |
| 18:50.42 | antik | then what is the problem? |
| 18:51.05 | antik | then why it can't handle html properly? |
| 18:51.26 | PhinnFort | antik: it actually handles it better than many other browsers |
| 18:51.29 | PhinnFort | like firefox |
| 18:51.30 | smileaf | oh it can, and can quite well. what it doesn't do properly is handle other browser bugs well ;) |
| 18:51.45 | antik | I don't care if it can pass ACID2 test, if it can't work with most forums sites then it is useless |
| 18:52.01 | PhinnFort | smileaf: it does to a certain degree;) |
| 18:52.09 | smileaf | PhinnFort: of course |
| 18:52.14 | logixoul | phew, i'm back |
| 18:52.26 | PhinnFort | antik: it's actually quicker than firefox |
| 18:52.29 | PhinnFort | and even opera here |
| 18:52.35 | PhinnFort | in the mozilla render test |
| 18:52.36 | PhinnFort | :P |
| 18:52.43 | smileaf | PhinnFort: personally I'd love to see all browsers error out on any non-standards compliant page |
| 18:52.52 | PhinnFort | hehe |
| 18:53.04 | picca | antik: why is it useless? |
| 18:53.08 | antik | I know that is quicker except for sites based on phpBB and digg |
| 18:53.08 | MinceR | phpbb sucks |
| 18:53.21 | PhinnFort | digg is very quick here |
| 18:53.25 | antik | but it won't suck in firefox... |
| 18:53.25 | PhinnFort | and phpbb too |
| 18:53.31 | PhinnFort | because firefox is bloated |
| 18:53.35 | antik | conclusion: Konqueror sucks |
| 18:53.48 | picca | antik: your conclusion! |
| 18:53.48 | smileaf | great conclusion. |
| 18:53.51 | smileaf | lol |
| 18:53.51 | PhinnFort | antik: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-3405836.html#3405836 |
| 18:53.53 | PhinnFort | lol |
| 18:53.55 | alsuren | antik: watch out: you're getting a reputation |
| 18:53.56 | picca | why does it suck antik? |
| 18:54.08 | MinceR | so if there's a site that works with konqueror but not with firefox, then firefox sucks? |
| 18:54.10 | PhinnFort | because it doesn't have enough bugs |
| 18:54.18 | picca | lol MinceR |
| 18:54.22 | MinceR | (though all browsers suck, it's just that some suck less) |
| 18:54.22 | antik | it even slow as hell in gmail |
| 18:54.25 | tvtoon | PhinnFort, yeah... :D |
| 18:54.30 | PhinnFort | ;) |
| 18:54.33 | picca | antik: but why does it suck? |
| 18:54.38 | jvolkman_ | Using KDE 3.5.5 (on Kubuntu), and using the Kmenu Menu Item Format "Name (Description)", there are no parentheses around the description of menu items. Does anyone else experience this? |
| 18:54.39 | PhinnFort | here's the test: http://scragz.com/tech/mozilla/test-rendering-time |
| 18:54.41 | PhinnFort | antik: not here |
| 18:54.46 | antik | you guys actually using Konqueror or what? |
| 18:54.49 | jvolkman_ | When using "Description (Name)", the parens are there |
| 18:54.51 | PhinnFort | antik: yes |
| 18:54.52 | PhinnFort | and opera |
| 18:54.53 | tvtoon | It must have at least 9999 bugs to kiddies... |
| 18:54.59 | smileaf | antik: I don't have any other browser installed. |
| 18:54.59 | PhinnFort | and i've tried firefox |
| 18:55.04 | picca | antik: yup, so why does it suck? |
| 18:55.06 | smileaf | antik: konqueror is all I use. |
| 18:55.08 | PhinnFort | but it was extreeemely slow and blaoted |
| 18:55.33 | MinceR | i might take up links again since (finally) it can select text in graphics mode. |
| 18:55.41 | PhinnFort | ;) |
| 18:55.48 | PhinnFort | i use dillo on my lappy |
| 18:55.51 | tvtoon | antik, you don't know what is PHP, you know nothing in fact... I sugest you should start reading docs before put sentences like that... |
| 18:55.54 | *** join/#kde ereslibre (n=geo@84.76.201.168) |
| 18:56.03 | smileaf | PhinnFort: loaded in 6.296000003814697 seconds :) |
| 18:56.07 | PhinnFort | :P |
| 18:56.19 | alsuren | jvolkman_: in many cases, "( variable )" means "only include if the variable is defined". I don't know about kmenu |
| 18:56.22 | MinceR | it would be nice to have some sort of browser environment that could have tabs showing pages with any rendering engine |
| 18:56.23 | PhinnFort | when not compiling in the background, it was 2.0-2.2 |
| 18:56.36 | antik | I know what is PHP- I just formed my question wrongly |
| 18:56.52 | PhinnFort | MinceR: i think there's an extension for firefox to use IE in some tabs |
| 18:56.57 | picca | god help IE or firefox when it doesn't render a page properly for antik |
| 18:56.59 | antik | english is not my primary language, sry |
| 18:57.08 | MinceR | i don't want to use IE even then. |
| 18:57.08 | jvolkman_ | alsuren: The descriptions are displayed in the menu, but they're not in parentheses.. |
| 18:57.10 | PhinnFort | antik: np, it's not mine either |
| 18:57.20 | picca | antik: so anyway, why does konqueror suck? |
| 18:57.23 | tvtoon | antik, neither mine |
| 18:57.24 | MinceR | especially since it would probably fail if firefox is native and IE is on wine :> |
| 18:57.30 | jvolkman_ | for example, "Description (Name)" shows "Word Processing (KWord)" |
| 18:57.41 | jvolkman_ | but "Name (Description)" shows "KWord Word Processing" |
| 18:57.50 | tvtoon | He is probably meaning the motion which the page loads... |
| 18:57.50 | PhinnFort | MinceR: i think that Gnome browser supports using different backends for rendering |
| 18:58.04 | antik | because I can't use Konqueror without frustrating pauses on forums- most of em are phpBB of phpBB+ based :( |
| 18:58.07 | MinceR | in theory, kazehakase supports gecko and gtk-webcore |
| 18:58.17 | MinceR | in practice, i've never got it to work with gtk-webcore |
| 18:58.20 | PhinnFort | heh |
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| 18:58.37 | smileaf | PhinnFort: for the record on my windows computer, IE renders it in almost 12 seconds and firefox in 13 seconds ;) |
| 18:58.40 | picca | antik: which forums? |
| 18:58.46 | PhinnFort | smileaf: :D |
| 18:59.39 | MinceR | PhinnFort: which gnome browser is that, btw? epiphany? |
| 18:59.44 | antik | forums.pcbsd.org, pingviin.org, bsdportal.ru, etc... |
| 19:00.08 | PhinnFort | i don't remember |
| 19:00.44 | picca | antik: at what point does it pause? |
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| 19:01.09 | alsuren | jvolkman_: hrrrm seems I have the same bug on gentoo with 3.5.5 |
| 19:01.20 | antik | I select text for deletion and whole browser freeze for 30sec. |
| 19:01.22 | jvolkman_ | cool |
| 19:01.31 | jvolkman_ | I can't find an open bug on it |
| 19:01.38 | jvolkman_ | although I'm not quite sure what to search for |
| 19:02.03 | picca | antik: when you reply to a message? |
| 19:02.12 | PhinnFort | antik: did you have spell-checking set up correctly? |
| 19:02.47 | antik | no, I don't use spell-checkers |
| 19:02.57 | alsuren | jvolkman_: I would probably go through the bug report wizard with "kmenu menu item format (description) brackets missing" |
| 19:03.00 | PhinnFort | well, it could be enabled, anyways |
| 19:03.05 | antik | yes, when I reply to message or edit em |
| 19:03.11 | picca | antik: it seems okay for me - i am using KDE 3.5.5, what version are you using |
| 19:03.18 | antik | 3.5.4 |
| 19:03.26 | PhinnFort | antik: i've never experienced that |
| 19:04.04 | logixoul | smileaf: for the throbber code maybe class KonqLogoAction can help |
| 19:04.11 | antik | I think you never used Konqueror with phpBB forums |
| 19:04.13 | alsuren | and then if it doesn't come up with anything on the checking page, just submit it and then link me, and I'll confirm that it's broken on gentoo too |
| 19:04.21 | PhinnFort | antik: quite often |
| 19:04.25 | PhinnFort | and also with other froams |
| 19:04.34 | PhinnFort | and i think the gentoo froams are phpbb based |
| 19:04.39 | PhinnFort | and there's a lot of kde users on there |
| 19:04.41 | antik | did you read digg? |
| 19:04.44 | PhinnFort | yeah |
| 19:04.47 | PhinnFort | every day;) |
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| 19:05.11 | antik | if you open menu and hover with mouse, it refresh slowly |
| 19:05.14 | alsuren | antik: can you take a look at the behaviour that jvolkman_ is describing? |
| 19:05.32 | PhinnFort | i'm even a moderator on several phpbb based froams;) |
| 19:06.04 | *** join/#kde lunitik (n=lunitik@unaffiliated/lunitik) |
| 19:06.05 | antik | I can search my report in bugs database |
| 19:06.16 | *** join/#kde jkup (n=jkup@c-71-56-101-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 19:06.21 | *** join/#kde Andy778 (i=daemon@1-1-1-25a.vhe.sth.bostream.se) |
| 19:06.35 | PhinnFort | antik: i can mark text, put on styling, etc. no problem, and no pauses at all, even while compiling gcc in the background |
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| 19:07.16 | Andy778 | Is there a way to get new inserted media to come up as an icon on the desktop (such as cd? usb memory etc.) as it does in Gnome? |
| 19:07.21 | antik | I know, sometimes it works just fine, but 10% of times it just freaks out |
| 19:07.33 | PhinnFort | Andy778: it should do it |
| 19:07.38 | picca | PhinnFort: what version of KDE do you use? |
| 19:07.45 | PhinnFort | picca: 3.5.5 |
| 19:07.48 | alsuren | PhinnFort: compiling at nice>=10 shouldn't have any visible affect on *anything* |
| 19:07.49 | antik | I have no problems with Opera, Firefox (don't use it anymore) |
| 19:07.50 | PhinnFort | -r3 i think of kdelibs |
| 19:07.55 | PhinnFort | alsuren: i have nice 19 |
| 19:08.02 | PhinnFort | but a rather slow harddrive;) |
| 19:08.10 | picca | PhinnFort: i wonder if it is an issue with KHTML or something in KDE 3.5.4 that has been fixed in 3.5.5? maybe |
| 19:08.26 | Andy778 | PhinnFort: Well mine doesnt :s any fix? Im using kde 3.5.1 |
| 19:08.27 | PhinnFort | picca: i have never experienced it before, either |
| 19:08.27 | pinotree | Andy778: right click on the desktop -> configure the desktop -> behaviour -> device icons |
| 19:08.36 | PhinnFort | Andy778: what distro are you on? |
| 19:08.47 | PhinnFort | dbus must be set up correctly for it to work |
| 19:08.58 | picca | PhinnFort: i am sure if it were a problem in 3.5.4 it would have been a common bug well noticed |
| 19:09.00 | Andy778 | pinotree: thanks |
| 19:09.13 | alsuren | ah, I have plenty of RAM and a pair of 7200RPM SATAs, so disk accesses are never a problem |
| 19:09.28 | PhinnFort | well, swapping is also a problem |
| 19:09.32 | PhinnFort | 512 mb ram |
| 19:09.36 | alsuren | ouch |
| 19:09.40 | alsuren | laptop? |
| 19:09.43 | PhinnFort | no |
| 19:09.45 | PhinnFort | ;) |
| 19:09.53 | PhinnFort | thinking about getting a matched pair of 1gb chips |
| 19:10.32 | alsuren | isn't a 4x upgrade a bit of a jump? |
| 19:10.58 | PhinnFort | :) |
| 19:11.00 | PhinnFort | a good jump |
| 19:11.04 | alsuren | .... saying that, I only had 128MB of ram in my old dell before I got my current machine |
| 19:11.08 | antik | http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=128884 |
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| 19:11.51 | PhinnFort | ram is cheap |
| 19:11.54 | PhinnFort | or so they say |
| 19:12.03 | annma | no, it's getting up again |
| 19:12.12 | *** join/#kde nemoy (n=nemoy@217.151.230.209) |
| 19:12.13 | PhinnFort | ? |
| 19:12.14 | annma | 66euros for a 512 |
| 19:12.17 | smileaf | logixoul: almost looks like using that would be a better choice. it subclasses kaction which I'm using currently anyway :) |
| 19:12.34 | annma | PhinnFort: i happened to enquire about RAM prices yesterday |
| 19:12.38 | jvolkman_ | alsuren: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=136053 |
| 19:12.47 | PhinnFort | 1925 nok for 2gb |
| 19:12.51 | PhinnFort | 227.210955 Euro |
| 19:12.58 | annma | yes, expensive |
| 19:13.23 | annma | i wanted a 512 DDR-1 but 66 euros is too much |
| 19:14.13 | PhinnFort | it was much worse before |
| 19:14.17 | alsuren | annma: which program? |
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| 19:14.23 | PhinnFort | now i've almost forgot i was looking for more ram |
| 19:14.25 | annma | all of kde3 and 4 |
| 19:14.38 | PhinnFort | heh |
| 19:14.49 | Blissex | for better desktop repsonsiveness: http://www.sabi.co.uk/Notes/anno05-4th.html#051008 |
| 19:14.50 | PhinnFort | fun |
| 19:14.52 | annma | kde3 is almost done |
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| 19:15.05 | alsuren | PhinnFort: good point! I upgraded to gcc4.1 a while ago so I could try to notice a difference, but never got round to enabling it |
| 19:15.28 | PhinnFort | alsuren: i'm currently removing 3.4 |
| 19:15.33 | PhinnFort | it's been laying around forever |
| 19:15.51 | Sutoka | kdehiddenvisibility is great (its not invis!) |
| 19:16.27 | Sutoka | -fvisibility-inlines-hidden also is pretty nice in the CXXFLAGS |
| 19:16.35 | *** join/#kde markey (n=mark@port-83-236-8-60.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 19:17.10 | PhinnFort | Sutoka: isn't that just a bit stupid? |
| 19:17.17 | *** join/#kde floe (n=konversa@i577B1481.versanet.de) |
| 19:17.17 | PhinnFort | that's what i was told;) |
| 19:17.20 | alsuren | annma: do you know if it's possible to get kopete from kde4svn to connect to jabber? |
| 19:17.23 | Blissex | Drepper hates that, but I think that despite him being my hero, I think he is a bit too strict here. |
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| 19:17.41 | annma | alsuren: kopete in kde3.5 should do it |
| 19:17.47 | Sutoka | PhinnFort: maybe on GCC 3.4 |
| 19:17.54 | annma | alsuren: kde3.5.5 |
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| 19:18.07 | Sutoka | -fvisibility-inlines-hidden is supposed to not require any modifications to the source |
| 19:18.11 | annma | alsuren: in kde4 we don't use apps at the moment |
| 19:18.13 | PhinnFort | well, soon my whole system is compiled with gcc 4.1 |
| 19:18.56 | PhinnFort | well, i prefer xfs over jfs;) |
| 19:18.57 | alsuren | annma: yeah, I was just playing about with the kde4 stuff after akademy |
| 19:18.58 | smileaf | Sutoka: not suppose to true, but there are cases where things are hidden that shouldn't be. |
| 19:19.00 | logixoul | antik: a lot of khtml boosting went into 3.5.5 fyi |
| 19:19.22 | annma | hmm kopete did not compile, i must miss a dependency |
| 19:19.32 | Sutoka | smileaf: true, but so far i haven't ran into any problems (and if no one runs with it, it'll never get fixed) |
| 19:19.50 | smileaf | Sutoka: yep |
| 19:19.56 | alsuren | annma: get qca from kde svn... *finds it* |
| 19:20.38 | alsuren | trunk/kdesupport/qca/ |
| 19:20.55 | antik | any bugs resolved that may cause problems with phpBB sites in 3.5.5? |
| 19:20.58 | annma | configure should say what is missing |
| 19:21.37 | annma | i did not compile kdesupport, there's taglib in it |
| 19:21.41 | jkup | what are the ram requirements for building kdelibs with enable-final? x86/linux |
| 19:23.07 | *** join/#kde hydrogen_ (n=hydrogen@perdition.campus.alfred.edu) |
| 19:24.29 | alsuren | annma: I don't expect *anyone* bothers compiling the entirety of kdesupport. All you need for kopete is qca version 2 |
| 19:24.59 | annma | i need kdesupport for taglib and akode |
| 19:25.14 | *** join/#kde dmbkiwi (n=matt@203-114-186-21.bitstream.sta.fx.net.nz) |
| 19:25.25 | annma | kopete is set to compile in configure |
| 19:25.34 | annma | maybe i forgot to make install |
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| 19:27.03 | logixoul | PhinnFort: what's kdehiddeninvisibility? |
| 19:27.13 | smileaf | logixoul: gentoo use flag |
| 19:27.33 | Sutoka | logixoul: http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/Visibility |
| 19:27.42 | alsuren | logixoul: basically makes your binaries a bit cleaner so they link faster |
| 19:27.56 | pinotree | alsuren: no |
| 19:28.13 | pinotree | it just hides symbols from being exported |
| 19:28.20 | PhinnFort | it makes kde quicker/more responsive, but can also make things unstable;) |
| 19:28.30 | logixoul | i see, thanks |
| 19:28.58 | pinotree | so, when loading that a library, it will load a bit faster, as less symbols have to be loaded for the world outside |
| 19:29.03 | Sutoka | startup times, shouldn't impact runspeed |
| 19:29.34 | Sutoka | s/startup times/startup times only/ |
| 19:29.57 | PhinnFort | well, it uses less ram |
| 19:30.06 | smileaf | PhinnFort: fyi.. its kdehiddenvisibility not kdehiddeninvisibility |
| 19:30.08 | PhinnFort | so for us folks with not too much ram, it affects runspeed |
| 19:30.12 | alsuren | Sutoka: but it's only startup times that you *really* notice and get frustrated by |
| 19:30.17 | Sutoka | well it'll also let gcc make better code (according to that wiki) |
| 19:30.25 | PhinnFort | smileaf: ;) |
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| 19:30.38 | logixoul | annma: "in kde4 we don't use apps" - how is that so? |
| 19:30.49 | annma | we don't "use" them |
| 19:30.56 | PhinnFort | logixoul: they're just doing the frameworks and stuff, afaik |
| 19:30.59 | PhinnFort | or? |
| 19:31.00 | Sutoka | logixoul: you have to use machine code to talk to kdelibs |
| 19:31.23 | annma | they are ported but often not working properly yet although this is improving fast |
| 19:31.32 | Sutoka | the apps aren't 'used' for real world stuff, only for development afaik |
| 19:31.40 | antik | http://forums.pcbsd.org/viewtopic.php?t=5907&highlight= |
| 19:31.41 | logixoul | aah, we don't *use* them. right, thanks. |
| 19:31.47 | annma | Sutoka: lol, yes, machine code |
| 19:31.49 | novas0x2a | why would kdirwatch not be using inotify? i'm using 2.6.18, i'm on a 2.4 glibc, and the tools from inotify-tools work perfectly |
| 19:32.11 | annma | novas0x2a: what kde version? |
| 19:32.21 | novas0x2a | 3.5.5 |
| 19:32.54 | novas0x2a | i get "kio (KDirWatch): Can't use Inotify, kernel doesn't support it" |
| 19:32.57 | *** join/#kde letto (n=letto@86.104.168.111) |
| 19:33.07 | novas0x2a | which is bs. it definitely does |
| 19:33.15 | PhinnFort | novas0x2a: kernel version? |
| 19:33.20 | PhinnFort | aka. uname -a |
| 19:33.20 | pinotree | did you compile kdelibs with the inotify headers? |
| 19:33.34 | novas0x2a | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:33.52 | annma | how did you compile kdelibs? |
| 19:33.57 | novas0x2a | um, as far as i know- kdelibs has HAVE_INOTIFY defined, so autoconf found it |
| 19:34.11 | novas0x2a | emerged it |
| 19:34.14 | novas0x2a | (gentoo) |
| 19:34.20 | novas0x2a | oh |
| 19:34.21 | novas0x2a | duh |
| 19:34.24 | novas0x2a | you mean configure options |
| 19:35.03 | novas0x2a | (checking) |
| 19:35.43 | logixoul | antik: dunno if the phpbb/digg problems are resolved, you can check http://www.kde.org/announcements/changelogs/changelog3_5_4to3_5_5.php |
| 19:37.18 | novas0x2a | i don't have --disable-inotify, and autoconf prints "checking for Linux Inotify Notification... yes" |
| 19:38.17 | novas0x2a | smileaf: it's on by default unless explicitly disabled, i checked the configure (and, on top of that, autoconf finds it, too) |
| 19:38.29 | Electrolyte | Is kicker able to have some text after the icon to launch it? |
| 19:38.32 | Electrolyte | Like on GNOme. |
| 19:38.34 | Electrolyte | GNome* |
| 19:39.24 | novas0x2a | looking at the source in kdelibs/kio/kio/kdirwatch.cc, line 258, is where the error is printed |
| 19:39.38 | novas0x2a | which means inotify_init is returning <= 0 |
| 19:39.52 | novas0x2a | .. which is not the error case, afaik |
| 19:40.12 | smileaf | novas0x2a: only thing I am finding about any *notify is about dnotify which almost makes me wonder if that's doing anything, I doubt it tho. |
| 19:40.58 | *** join/#kde sredna (n=anders@kde/developer/alund) |
| 19:41.11 | novas0x2a | you don't have a big chunk of inotify detection code inside HAVE_INOTIFY ifdefs in kdelibs/kio/kio/kdirwatch.cc line 258? |
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| 19:42.03 | novas0x2a | er, kdirwatch.cpp |
| 19:42.05 | smileaf | novas0x2a: I was talking about the ebuild. |
| 19:42.48 | novas0x2a | smileaf: as i said, kdelibs itself enables inotify support by default unless it is explicitly disabled from ./configure, which the ebuild does not do |
| 19:43.27 | smileaf | novas0x2a: yah I read that. was just stating that it had that in it, and wondered if it could have disabled it for some reason. |
| 19:44.24 | smileaf | I have no idea really. |
| 19:44.58 | tuxick | has anyone actually seen korganizer *fetch* some events from opengroupware? |
| 19:45.07 | tuxick | the config dialog seems broken |
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| 19:45.43 | novas0x2a | i don't know why inotify_init(); on line 255 is returning <= 0... it really doesn't make any sense- my test program that tries that works just fine, as do the inotify test tools |
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| 19:46.25 | novas0x2a | umm |
| 19:46.27 | novas0x2a | wait |
| 19:47.01 | novas0x2a | kdirwatch defines its own inotify_init |
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| 19:49.43 | antik | off topic but good read: http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/BSD |
| 19:49.59 | Slack4020 | hmmmmmmmm |
| 19:50.20 | logixoul | antik: have you checked http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/KDE |
| 19:50.28 | antik | not yet |
| 19:50.51 | antik | KonKi after a Kood snaKK |
| 19:50.52 | antik | EnlargeKonKi after a Kood snaKK |
| 19:50.52 | antik | KDE (Crispie DreadinK Elves) |
| 19:51.06 | *** join/#kde Deformative (n=joe@c-68-61-240-49.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 19:51.08 | antik | damn they mis-spelled KDE |
| 19:51.11 | Deformative | How old is kde 3.5? |
| 19:51.14 | Roey | old |
| 19:51.15 | logixoul | we did? |
| 19:51.22 | *** part/#kde shnee (n=shnee@dhcp-254-217-146.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu) |
| 19:51.25 | Roey | Deformative: 3.5.5 is the latest. |
| 19:51.29 | Deformative | Oh. |
| 19:51.34 | Deformative | Mkay. |
| 19:51.56 | *** join/#kde pyrolappy (n=pyrosim@205.201.133.106) |
| 19:52.22 | Deformative | Is qt3 recent as well? |
| 19:52.31 | logixoul | no |
| 19:52.36 | logixoul | qt 4.2 is |
| 19:52.38 | jvolkman_ | qt4.2 is the latest version |
| 19:52.44 | annma | qt 3.3.6 is not so old |
| 19:52.44 | Deformative | Hmm. |
| 19:52.52 | Deformative | Alright, that's what I got. |
| 19:53.03 | annma | Deformative: kde 3.5.5 based on qt 3.3..6 is latest stable kde |
| 19:53.15 | Deformative | I am too lasy to install the latest stuff, and i just wanted to make sure I am not using ancient stuff. |
| 19:53.41 | annma | kde3 is stable stuff |
| 19:53.51 | annma | kde4 based on qt4 will be next year stuff |
| 19:53.55 | *** join/#kde jurp5 (n=jurp5@dsl-213-134-254-152.solcon.nl) |
| 19:54.16 | Deformative | Hmm. |
| 19:54.31 | Deformative | I really do not like kwim and I am not quite sure about kde panel yet. |
| 19:54.46 | annma | kwim? |
| 19:54.59 | Deformative | Uh, I musta messed up. |
| 19:55.03 | Deformative | What is the window manageR? |
| 19:55.05 | logixoul | Deformative: what's wrong with kwin? |
| 19:55.44 | Deformative | I dunno, I just don't like it, I don't know why exactly. I just like Enlightenment way better. |
| 19:55.50 | Sutoka | if you really don't want kwin, just set the KDE_WM="" variable to something else |
| 19:55.53 | Deformative | I like kdesktop and konq a lot. |
| 19:56.18 | Q-collective | Deformative: welcome to the club |
| 19:56.24 | annma | Deformative: you can hide the panel if you don't like it |
| 19:56.36 | Q-collective | killall kicker |
| 19:56.38 | Q-collective | simple |
| 19:57.01 | Deformative | And I don't like the session thing. |
| 19:57.12 | Deformative | I would rather start all the part seperatly. |
| 19:57.16 | smileaf | that can be disabled ;) |
| 19:57.21 | Deformative | For some reason it seems to work better for me. |
| 19:57.33 | Deformative | Well, it does for gnome at least. |
| 19:57.39 | Deformative | I haven't tried it on kde yet. |
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| 19:59.15 | Deformative | What does arts do? |
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| 20:00.37 | Sutoka | Deformative: its kde's sound server, if your alsa/oss supports hardware/software mixing and its on you can just disable it and have knotify use 'play' from sox instead |
| 20:00.45 | logixoul | Deformative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARts |
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| 20:01.29 | Deformative | I don't use alsa, I use freebsd. |
| 20:01.50 | Deformative | Hmm, so how do I disable it? |
| 20:01.54 | annma | hm, freebsd is alsa compatible, no? |
| 20:02.08 | Sutoka | Deformative: if freebsd's sound subsystem support hardware or software mixing and its enabled then you can disable arts without any loss |
| 20:02.30 | antik | no |
| 20:02.31 | antik | aRts works perfectly on FreeBSD, why change that? |
| 20:02.40 | Deformative | Because I don |
| 20:02.44 | Deformative | 't really want it. |
| 20:02.51 | Ace2016 | Hi all |
| 20:03.04 | Deformative | I dunno, antik, why would you need it? |
| 20:03.08 | Sutoka | KControl -> Sound & Multimedia -> Sound System -> untick "Enable the sound system" |
| 20:03.22 | Sutoka | Deformative: if your sound subsystem didn't support mixing multiple audio streams |
| 20:03.52 | Deformative | I was refering to "antik> aRts works perfectly on FreeBSD, why change that?" |
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| 20:04.36 | Sutoka | i was refering to "why would you need it" |
| 20:05.02 | Deformative | Hmm. |
| 20:05.33 | Deformative | Oh, and annma, why would freebsd use the "Advanced Linux Sound Architecture?" |
| 20:05.55 | annma | because your sound card may need it |
| 20:06.03 | logixoul | Deformative: freebsd has this 'linux compatibility' thing |
| 20:06.10 | annma | i think not all sound cards support OSS |
| 20:06.26 | antik | my sound card works perfectly with OSS drivers and I don't need ALSA inability to mix multiple sounds |
| 20:06.38 | annma | antik: yours, yes |
| 20:06.47 | annma | not all though |
| 20:06.58 | Deformative | Well, I hardly ever use sound./ |
| 20:07.07 | annma | maybe freeBSD has other sound stuff than alsa and oss |
| 20:07.08 | Sutoka | the sound card in my laptop hates OSS, and works fine with ALSA, same on the desktop |
| 20:07.10 | Deformative | Not like i could have music on here, 8 gig hard drive. |
| 20:07.37 | Deformative | annma, it does.. And Linux compatibility is a pain in the ass. |
| 20:07.50 | Deformative | Most people only use if for flash if that. |
| 20:08.04 | Deformative | I don't use it. |
| 20:08.33 | *** join/#kde Egyptian[Home] (n=Egyptian@62.117.41.229) |
| 20:08.41 | Deformative | I dunno, might have just been a pain to me because I am a noob. |
| 20:08.45 | Deformative | But whatever. |
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| 20:08.51 | Egyptian[Home] | hi.. what package does kommander come in? kdewebdev? if so what is the bin called? |
| 20:08.58 | Egyptian[Home] | s/bin/binary |
| 20:09.12 | benJIman | Egyptian[Home]: kmdr-editor and kmdr-executor, depending on which you want, and yes usually kdewebdev |
| 20:09.16 | Sutoka | Egyptian[Home]: kmdr-editor & kmdr-executor |
| 20:10.13 | Deformative | Sutoka, but I have liek 4 partitions. |
| 20:10.27 | Egyptian[Home] | benJIman: Sutoka thanks for the help |
| 20:10.34 | Deformative | So it is not like it just takes the 8 gig, it would take some of my /usr partition for example if I had my music in home. |
| 20:10.55 | Deformative | And one gig of my 8 is dedicated to swap. |
| 20:11.15 | Sutoka | unless you have 1 gig or more of ram thats probably overkill |
| 20:11.41 | logixoul | Sutoka: huh? |
| 20:11.50 | logixoul | Sutoka: the other way round? |
| 20:11.59 | logixoul | oh |
| 20:12.01 | logixoul | nevermind |
| 20:12.07 | Deformative | Sutoka, it is overkill, but oh well. |
| 20:12.29 | Sutoka | by the time you get to 512 mb used of swap, the machine will be trashing to death probably |
| 20:12.48 | Deformative | I was afraid of unstable applications dipping into swap, that happend every now and then on Archlinux, but back then I didn't realise how stable freebsd is. |
| 20:13.15 | *** join/#kde codejunky (n=jan@d023163.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 20:13.22 | benJIman | Sutoka: depends what is in swap. |
| 20:13.22 | Deformative | I got to over 512mb swap on archlinux and still managed to recover. |
| 20:13.36 | benJIman | It's quite possible to have situations with lots of stuff in swap that you're not actually using |
| 20:13.59 | alsuren | swap is only of any use if you have a potentially large tempfs mounted in ram like I do |
| 20:14.00 | Sutoka | benJIman: true, if it slowly swaps out never used stuff over a long period of time it should be fine, but that generally doesn't happen that often on a desktop machine in my experience |
| 20:14.02 | codejunky | Hello, I am playing chess with knights, my problem is that outgoing chat messages when connected to fics are not shown up in the console. Is it possible to turn them on? |
| 20:14.07 | Deformative | Because Gaim used to always have this thing where it opens a whole load of processes for no reason. |
| 20:14.11 | Deformative | I don't know why. |
| 20:14.20 | alsuren | s/swap/more than a gig of swap/ |
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| 20:19.06 | novas0x2a | well, i was right about one thing. i now have inotify support |
| 20:19.45 | novas0x2a | my system is unfortunately still broken, though. |
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| 20:22.57 | logixoul | codejunky: i can't help you, but if there isn't an easily discoverable way to turn them on, your best shot is reporting it as a bug. |
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| 20:24.23 | killown | when kde to be released? |
| 20:24.32 | logixoul | ? |
| 20:24.44 | killown | when kde 4 to be released? |
| 20:25.02 | logixoul | probably the first half of 2007 |
| 20:25.13 | killown | logixoul, thanks |
| 20:25.23 | logixoul | np |
| 20:25.25 | tuxick | http://korganizer.kde.org/develop/cvs.html mentions cvs.kde.org which doesn't exist |
| 20:25.33 | logixoul | yes |
| 20:25.33 | tuxick | what's the actual location? |
| 20:25.39 | logixoul | svn.kde.org? |
| 20:25.46 | logixoul | we switched some years ago |
| 20:25.54 | tuxick | forgot the docs then :) |
| 20:25.59 | tuxick | thank bob |
| 20:26.37 | logixoul | who doesn't :) |
| 20:26.37 | killown | logixoul, kde 4 to be more as fast as kde 3? |
| 20:26.37 | tuxick | i'll mail author |
| 20:26.37 | logixoul | good |
| 20:26.55 | logixoul | killown: there was optimization planning at akademy, so probably yes |
| 20:27.07 | Deformative | Hmm. |
| 20:27.10 | killown | logixoul ok thanks a lot |
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| 20:27.27 | Deformative | I can not think of a replacement panel other than gnome-panel. |
| 20:27.45 | logixoul | you don't like kicker? not a #kde problem. |
| 20:28.04 | logixoul | anyway xfce has a panel too. |
| 20:28.17 | Deformative | I dislike xfce |
| 20:28.22 | logixoul | me too |
| 20:28.27 | Deformative | Maybe I will use pypanel. |
| 20:29.25 | tuxick | heh, the page is last updated 2003 |
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| 20:30.27 | *** join/#kde seren (n=james@CPE-65-31-152-66.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 20:30.34 | tuxick | maybe the project died? |
| 20:30.42 | *** join/#kde rbonnin (n=rbonnin@200.123.147.90) |
| 20:30.43 | tuxick | that would explain why it doesn't work |
| 20:31.00 | logixoul | kontact is alive and kicking |
| 20:31.13 | rbonnin | Hi! is there any programs to make automatic mouse movements and clicks? |
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| 20:31.36 | tuxick | i noticed that uses the config/dialog and settings korganizer also uses |
| 20:31.45 | tuxick | and it silently fails to fetch from opengroupware |
| 20:31.47 | Sutoka | Deformative: theres also ksmoothdock and kxdocker (and a few others on kde-apps.org ) |
| 20:32.00 | tuxick | but ok, good news :) |
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| 20:32.20 | Sutoka | tuxick: Kontact embeds KOranizer, Kmail, and the rest of KDEPIM into itself |
| 20:32.36 | tuxick | i see |
| 20:32.45 | *** join/#kde seren (n=james@CPE-65-31-152-66.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 20:33.24 | logixoul | rbonnin: barring scripting i think not, but maybe a good wishlist for worKflow. why do you need it anyway? |
| 20:33.48 | Sutoka | i think there was some app that could do that... i don't remember what it was called, i think its on kde-apps.org |
| 20:33.54 | rbonnin | To use a wine program, gui only, to do some tasks |
| 20:34.18 | rbonnin | By the way, any free program to repair zip files in linux? |
| 20:34.28 | logixoul | rbonnin: you can simulate keypresses, isn't this enough for your usecase? |
| 20:34.42 | *** join/#kde rdale (n=rdale@39.Red-213-96-177.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:34.43 | rbonnin | Yes, shure, why? |
| 20:34.48 | rbonnin | excuse me |
| 20:35.01 | rbonnin | What prgram? |
| 20:35.01 | Deformative | Mkay Sutoka I will look into it. |
| 20:35.05 | tuxick | so i'd have to go through large parts of kdepim to add proper debugging code :/ |
| 20:35.21 | logixoul | rbonnin: forgot, wait... |
| 20:35.26 | Sutoka | tuxick: what problem are you having? |
| 20:35.47 | tuxick | Sutoka: kontact/korganizer silently failing to fetch from opengroupware |
| 20:36.06 | tuxick | i verified path/data with cadaver |
| 20:36.08 | Sutoka | tuxick: then the only code you would need to touch is in korganizer |
| 20:36.17 | tuxick | there's a bit of a lack of docs also :) |
| 20:36.33 | logixoul | rbonnin: kcontrol->regional&accessibility->input actions |
| 20:36.38 | tuxick | the config dialog seems broken |
| 20:36.46 | tuxick | can't select calendar |
| 20:39.42 | rbonnin | Thanks |
| 20:39.47 | logixoul | np |
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| 20:40.59 | Egyptian[Home] | isnt there something like zenity for kde? |
| 20:41.11 | Sutoka | Egyptian[Home]: kdialog? |
| 20:41.41 | Egyptian[Home] | Sutoka: kdialog! ... which is better to use with bash scripts? kdialog or kommander? |
| 20:41.59 | Egyptian[Home] | and can i compile kommander scripts? |
| 20:42.03 | logixoul | you can't |
| 20:42.05 | Sutoka | Egyptian[Home]: kdialog from inside batch scripts, kommander you would embed the bash scripts inside |
| 20:42.11 | Sutoka | Egyptian[Home]: nope |
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| 20:42.29 | Sutoka | Egyptian[Home]: kdialog is pretty much always gonna be installed with kde, kommander may not be |
| 20:42.40 | Egyptian[Home] | so i still need kommander to run the scripts .. however with kdialog its always available |
| 20:43.27 | logixoul | you don't need kommander to run a script |
| 20:43.39 | logixoul | but it has advantages sometimes |
| 20:43.45 | Egyptian[Home] | logixoul: ? |
| 20:44.01 | logixoul | userfriendliness. |
| 20:44.13 | logixoul | oh |
| 20:44.26 | logixoul | that's not what you meant, is it |
| 20:44.29 | logixoul | nevermind |
| 20:45.01 | *** join/#kde seren (n=james@CPE-65-31-152-66.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 20:46.08 | logixoul | fuck. markey says KDE4's delayed to Q3 2007. |
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| 20:51.07 | markey | ah well he says a lot |
| 20:52.30 | logixoul | lol |
| 20:55.21 | *** join/#kde roflcopter (n=captainr@69-161-101-250.bflony.adelphia.net) |
| 20:55.27 | roflcopter | how can i set kde back to the default look? |
| 20:55.34 | *** join/#kde qupada (n=qupada@203.109.219.116) |
| 20:55.34 | roflcopter | my style is hideous |
| 20:55.37 | logixoul | kpersonalizer |
| 20:55.54 | logixoul | or kcontrol->appearance->themes->plastik? |
| 20:56.00 | roflcopter | no, like... |
| 20:56.04 | roflcopter | the toolbar is destroyed |
| 20:56.09 | roflcopter | i can't even tell what happened to it |
| 20:56.13 | logixoul | oh |
| 20:56.18 | roflcopter | this is so ugly i just want to set things back to default |
| 20:56.21 | roflcopter | the gtk themes are being used |
| 20:56.26 | roflcopter | and it's so messed up |
| 20:56.32 | logixoul | do you mind losing all your settings? |
| 20:56.41 | logixoul | (not files, just settings) |
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| 20:56.50 | roflcopter | yes, i want to lose them |
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| 20:57.08 | logixoul | just create a new user: voilä. |
| 20:57.18 | roflcopter | huh? |
| 20:57.40 | logixoul | you don't know how to create a user? |
| 20:57.48 | logixoul | use your distro/os's tools |
| 20:57.54 | logixoul | or kdeadmin |
| 20:57.59 | roflcopter | um, i want to stay as this user |
| 20:58.05 | logixoul | why? |
| 20:58.27 | roflcopter | so i can just keep all my system settings without creating a new unix user |
| 20:58.37 | roflcopter | that's too much for wanting to change the kde look |
| 20:58.41 | logixoul | aha |
| 20:58.45 | logixoul | wait... |
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| 20:59.14 | *** part/#kde Roger_Enrasson (n=centurio@195.222.67.229) |
| 20:59.51 | benJIman | you could move ~/.kde to ~/.kdeold |
| 20:59.55 | logixoul | copy a new user's .kde directory over yours, but don't overwrite kmails directory and such |
| 21:00.03 | logixoul | s/kmails/kmail's/ |
| 21:00.09 | logixoul | yes |
| 21:00.12 | *** join/#kde Deformative (n=joe@c-68-61-240-49.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 21:00.14 | logixoul | what benJIman said |
| 21:00.24 | Deformative | I forgot, what file do I edit to make it so kwin isn't the window manager? |
| 21:00.52 | roflcopter | brb' |
| 21:01.09 | alsuren | Deformative: anything that sets the environment variable KDEWM (someone correct me) |
| 21:01.48 | alsuren | so in my case: KDEWM=beryl :P |
| 21:02.15 | alsuren | which is in /etc/env.d/99local on gentoo |
| 21:02.26 | alsuren | but might be /etc/environment or something on debian |
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| 21:04.02 | Q-collective | I want to play a game of atlantik, the game is of version 0.7.5 but the servers are running 0.9.3 |
| 21:04.07 | Q-collective | are they compatible? |
| 21:04.12 | Sutoka | you should be able to put it in ~/.kde/env |
| 21:04.20 | Sutoka | Q-collective: try and find out? |
| 21:04.32 | Q-collective | no one wants to play ;( |
| 21:04.37 | Q-collective | so I can't |
| 21:04.57 | Sutoka | looks like you can, i just joined one and im running 0.7.5 |
| 21:05.16 | Q-collective | kk |
| 21:06.46 | *** join/#kde motoom_ (n=motoom@a213-84-55-232.xs4all.nl) |
| 21:07.26 | Deformative | So, EXPORT in bash? |
| 21:07.32 | Deformative | No text config file? |
| 21:07.33 | logixoul | alsuren: bzflag :) |
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| 21:07.51 | logixoul | :) |
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| 21:09.04 | Q-collective | hehe |
| 21:09.29 | *** join/#kde Gentle (n=DasTier@91.89.101.252) |
| 21:09.42 | alsuren | I expect something turn based, but it's just effort to set up the tunnels |
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| 21:12.31 | alsuren | http://forum.beryl-project.org/topic-5539-flash-player-beta-out |
| 21:12.44 | logixoul | can't be! |
| 21:12.50 | Sutoka | its been |
| 21:12.53 | Sutoka | already in portage |
| 21:13.27 | Q-collective | yup |
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| 21:13.59 | Theory | already had to walk my parents through installing it :-s |
| 21:14.09 | instructor | Is there a log for the sound system? |
| 21:14.23 | Q-collective | arts? |
| 21:14.27 | Q-collective | probably |
| 21:15.03 | instructor | arts.log ? |
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| 21:15.38 | madclicker | which program do i need to install to be able to see usb harddrive in kde when plugged in? |
| 21:16.00 | logixoul | nothing but kde |
| 21:16.08 | Q-collective | pmount and hal |
| 21:16.33 | logixoul | dunno |
| 21:16.34 | *** join/#kde braKs (n=braKs@ip68-12-218-39.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 21:17.25 | benJIman | Q-collective: shouldn't need pmount |
| 21:17.29 | instructor | Q-collective: which file would it be in? |
| 21:17.42 | Q-collective | instructor: /var/log/ |
| 21:17.46 | madclicker | Q-collective, then kde will display when i insert a usb drive or a flash disk? |
| 21:17.51 | *** join/#kde nixternal (n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal) |
| 21:17.58 | benJIman | madclicker: it depends if hal dbus etc are set up appropriately by your distro |
| 21:18.22 | Q-collective | benJIman: thought that dbus wasn't supported in kde3? |
| 21:18.39 | instructor | Q-collective: What file? I don't see the arts log file |
| 21:18.42 | benJIman | Q-collective: not as a replacement for dcop, but for some things |
| 21:18.51 | benJIman | knetorkmanager, media:/ etc can use it |
| 21:19.04 | Q-collective | ah |
| 21:19.13 | Q-collective | instructor: look into /var/log/ |
| 21:19.21 | Q-collective | if it isn't there, I have no clue |
| 21:19.58 | instructor | Q-collective: You know that it is called arts ? |
| 21:20.18 | Q-collective | instructor: the kde sound daemon is |
| 21:20.30 | instructor | Yup |
| 21:21.58 | instructor | Guess arts doesn't have a log ;-( |
| 21:22.14 | *** join/#kde madclicker (n=madclick@216.123.169.252) |
| 21:23.11 | Sutoka | instructor: it may output any errors if you start it manually |
| 21:23.19 | alsuren | now then.... how to get the sound working on flashplayer |
| 21:23.21 | instructor | Sutoka: to the terminal? |
| 21:23.24 | *** join/#kde DaBlade (n=linuxp2p@unaffiliated/dablade) |
| 21:23.36 | Sutoka | yes |
| 21:23.45 | Sutoka | 'artsd -l 0' will output pretty much all info |
| 21:23.59 | instructor | Are there any flags I should knowabout or can I just $(artsd) ? |
| 21:24.41 | *** join/#kde rob (i=RobertSt@freenode/staff/rob) |
| 21:25.09 | Sutoka | "artsd -h" will list all the flags |
| 21:25.20 | instructor | Thanks |
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| 21:58.09 | *** join/#kde Deformative (n=joe@c-68-61-240-49.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 21:58.48 | Deformative | Can someone coppy line 320 of startkde into this channel please? |
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| 22:00.08 | logixoul | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:00.24 | Deformative | Hmm. |
| 22:00.47 | pinotree | Deformative: http://websvn.kde.org/branches/KDE/3.5/kdebase/startkde?rev=595252&view=auto |
| 22:00.52 | motoom_ | How do I get a Google search box in Konq's location toolbar? |
| 22:01.16 | logixoul | isn't it there by default? in suse it is, anyway |
| 22:01.51 | PhinnFort | in gentoo too |
| 22:01.52 | logixoul | else check Settings->'Configure Extensions' |
| 22:01.57 | pinotree | motoom_: settings -> configure extensions -> extensions -> search bar plugin |
| 22:02.55 | motoom_ | Hmmm, I only see 'Remote Encoding Plugin' and 'Shell Command Plugin' in Settings/Configure extensions |
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| 22:03.18 | Sutoka | uh... what version of KDE are you running? |
| 22:03.32 | motoom_ | 3.5.4 |
| 22:03.37 | Sutoka | what distro? |
| 22:03.44 | motoom_ | on FreeBSD 6.1 |
| 22:04.05 | *** join/#kde nixternal (n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/nixternal) |
| 22:04.55 | *** join/#kde pyrolappy (n=pyrosim@216.243.116.154) |
| 22:04.58 | Sutoka | the default setting is to have the google search box there... thats weird |
| 22:05.13 | *** join/#kde picca (n=picca@dyn-62-56-116-156.dslaccess.co.uk) |
| 22:05.26 | PhilRod | motoom_: install kdeaddons |
| 22:05.57 | motoom_ | Will do, it's compiling now... hope it works ;-) |
| 22:08.49 | *** join/#kde Deformative (n=joe@c-68-61-240-49.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 22:08.55 | *** join/#kde seren (n=james@CPE-65-31-152-66.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 22:09.06 | Deformative | I changed my environment variable, b ut it still starts kwin for some reason. |
| 22:10.16 | instructor | Anyone running kwin_composite? |
| 22:11.07 | picca | i was running it instructor, but not stable enough - rather Mesa drivers for my video cards are not stable enough |
| 22:11.53 | logixoul | Deformative: check this out http://lists.kde.org/?l=kwin&m=103007592521132&w=2 |
| 22:12.33 | instructor | picca: How is it? |
| 22:13.04 | *** part/#kde theresa (n=theresa@chello084112026078.6.11.vie.surfer.at) |
| 22:13.19 | picca | it works really well and fast to be honest - very impressed - i used X11R71 with KDE 3.5.5 .. but there is a small bug that really prevents me from using it |
| 22:14.11 | instructor | Filed it? :) |
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| 22:15.20 | picca | instructor: no, waiting for X11R71 which will hopefuly use the lastest MesaLibs that correct the problem |
| 22:15.25 | picca | 72 even |
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| 22:15.57 | instructor | picca: So it's useable enough to ship in a few months? |
| 22:16.30 | picca | instructor: what is? |
| 22:16.38 | instructor | kwin_composite |
| 22:16.57 | picca | kwin composite already exists doesn't it? |
| 22:17.42 | instructor | Kinda. Seli is still coding on it |
| 22:17.46 | instructor | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:18.00 | *** join/#kde seren (n=james@CPE-65-31-152-66.wi.res.rr.com) |
| 22:18.10 | instructor | I don't think that it's stablized yet |
| 22:18.14 | Deformative | Hmm, I already changed the kdewm variable, and it is still starting with kwin. |
| 22:18.34 | picca | when i talk about kwin composite i was thinking of the composite windows settings controled from control centre |
| 22:18.51 | picca | which use X11R* composite extension |
| 22:20.02 | instructor | picca: Oh no I'm talking about kwin's move to fight Compiz/beryl |
| 22:20.09 | alsuren | Deformative: echo $KDEWM |
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| 22:20.30 | picca | ah sorry instructor, no not used that - but sounds like a good move |
| 22:20.37 | instructor | :-) |
| 22:20.42 | instructor | alright see ya |
| 22:20.43 | Sutoka | compiz/beryl uses XComposite as well |
| 22:20.43 | Deformative | echo $KDEWM |
| 22:20.43 | Deformative | e16 |
| 22:21.01 | alsuren | which e16 |
| 22:21.05 | Sutoka | Deformative: isn't it KDE_WM="" ? |
| 22:21.32 | Deformative | Everyone else said it was KDEWM |
| 22:21.38 | alsuren | Sutoka: my env says KDEWM=beryl |
| 22:21.42 | alsuren | and it works |
| 22:21.58 | alsuren | Deformative: $ which e16 |
| 22:22.00 | Renze | Google says it is KDEWM |
| 22:22.17 | Deformative | /usr/X11R6/bin/e16 |
| 22:23.00 | alsuren | hrrrm. Those are the only two debugging steps I can think of |
| 22:23.55 | Renze | Deformative: are you sure it is being set before any KDE components start loading? |
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| 22:24.48 | Deformative | Pretty sure. |
| 22:26.06 | *** part/#kde Redhat71 (n=chatzill@218.18.225.210) |
| 22:26.54 | PhilRod | Deformative: how are you setting that variable? (ie, in what file?) |
| 22:27.11 | Deformative | ./.bashrc |
| 22:27.51 | Renze | try putting it in a script in ~/.kde/env/ |
| 22:28.09 | PhilRod | don't think KDE will source that file - use ~/.kde/env as Renze says |
| 22:28.11 | PhilRod | ~autostart |
| 22:28.22 | apt | To start a program or set an environment variable at KDE login, see: http://docs.kde.org/development/en/kdebase/faq/configure.html#id2560273 |
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| 22:30.07 | logixoul | how do i import a partially downloaded torrent into ktorrent? |
| 22:30.27 | Renze | logixoul: I assume you have enabled the plugin? |
| 22:30.56 | logixoul | hadn't, thanks. these plugins are truly unintuitive. |
| 22:31.02 | *** join/#kde wchogg (n=wchogg@eh-112-119-20.resnet.wisc.edu) |
| 22:31.29 | Renze | send the usability people over to visit the authors ;) |
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| 22:31.59 | logixoul | i will |
| 22:32.12 | alsuren | Renze: bikeshedding. discuss. |
| 22:32.27 | Renze | "you makea the nice interface or we breaka your legs, gabiche?" |
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| 22:33.49 | Deformative | Imma try it, be right back, restarting x. |
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| 22:34.22 | new_suse_user | Can someone help me? I don't know why, but Ksysguard won't work right |
| 22:34.36 | logixoul | what's the exact problem? |
| 22:34.46 | new_suse_user | it won't show the processes, or anything esle fro that matter |
| 22:35.18 | logixoul | do you have a "Process Table" tab? |
| 22:35.24 | PhilRod | logixoul: are you up for some kmail bug triaging, as suggested by bram: http://bram85.blogspot.com/2006/10/no-akademy-and-bug-hunting.html ? |
| 22:35.36 | new_suse_user | well, I can't get the dialogue boxes back up. But when I open ksysguard, there isn't any place for me to kill processes, or monitor the computer |
| 22:36.12 | new_suse_user | it's completely gray, with no features. Except a white section at the left where there's a folder tree, starting wtih "local host" |
| 22:36.23 | new_suse_user | no tabs, no images, no text |
| 22:37.19 | new_suse_user | this happened after I tried configuring ksysguard to open as root |
| 22:37.25 | new_suse_user | (through the key command) |
| 22:38.07 | logixoul | PhilRod: sure i am, unless i go to the mountain instead :) - is 28,29oct agreed upon by someone? |
| 22:38.19 | *** part/#kde MaximLevitsky (n=MaximLev@89.1.166.110.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 22:38.45 | PhilRod | logixoul: it's not definite, just an idea at the moment (in fact, all I saw was bram's blog) |
| 22:39.16 | logixoul | new_suse_user: run ksysguard in a terminal. are there any errors reported? |
| 22:39.46 | logixoul | new_suse_user: oh, right, got it |
| 22:39.56 | new_suse_user | ...no :( |
| 22:40.12 | new_suse_user | @logixoul |
| 22:40.18 | logixoul | new_suse_user: do you see 'Process Controller' in the left tree? |
| 22:41.06 | PhilRod | logixoul: ok, I'll try to get in touch with bram and find out whether anything is decided, and I'll keep you informed |
| 22:41.07 | new_suse_user | logixoul yeah |
| 22:41.07 | lunitik | new_suse_user: What version of SUSE is this? Have you looked for bug reports? |
| 22:41.08 | logixoul | new_suse_user: just drag in to the right part of the window :) |
| 22:41.19 | *** join/#kde shnee (n=shnee@cpe-65-24-168-255.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 22:41.35 | logixoul | lunitik: he prolly removed the proc controller view by accident |
| 22:41.39 | lunitik | logixoul: ahhh |
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| 22:42.04 | logixoul | lunitik: in my suse linux 10.1 the default is sane ;) |
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| 22:42.18 | new_suse_user | logixoul: it won't let me. Nothing happens when I try. And it has that circle with the slash over it |
| 22:42.41 | *** join/#kde rob (i=RobertSt@freenode/staff/rob) |
| 22:42.44 | *** join/#kde margiolas (n=margiola@athedsl-111832.otenet.gr) |
| 22:42.51 | lunitik | logixoul: 10.1 is so boring :P |
| 22:42.52 | margiolas | hello |
| 22:42.54 | new_suse_user | 10.1 |
| 22:42.58 | Smak | I have this annoying problem of my panel icons only starting about 1/2 way from the center. There is just empty space for almost the first half of my panel |
| 22:43.05 | margiolas | kde 4 when will be ready? |
| 22:43.10 | logixoul | lunitik: you run factory, i presume? :p |
| 22:43.18 | lunitik | margiolas: first half of 2007 |
| 22:43.21 | logixoul | margiolas: probably late 2007 |
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| 22:43.46 | lunitik | logixoul: not right now... they don't do iso's of alphas for cd's... only dvd |
| 22:44.12 | lunitik | logixoul: huh? ready not when will he get his hands on it :P |
| 22:44.18 | logixoul | Smak: move 'em one by one |
| 22:44.26 | margiolas | i hope that that kde will change our computer-life |
| 22:44.58 | logixoul | sure, sure. wanna help? |
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| 22:45.07 | new_suse_user | so, now what? Dragging it into the right does nothing logixoul. It has that circle w/ the slash |
| 22:45.11 | lunitik | margiolas: I think you need a more realistic opinion of what KDE4 will be |
| 22:45.36 | margiolas | lunitik: what are you meaning? |
| 22:45.52 | logixoul | new_suse_user: on the right of the "Sensor Browser" treeview are there two tabs: "System Load" and "Process Table"? |
| 22:45.54 | lunitik | margiolas: where did I lose you? |
| 22:45.59 | new_suse_user | logixoul: ok. I just learned something and figured it out. My problem it what I had to make a worksheet |
| 22:46.06 | new_suse_user | *was that |
| 22:46.17 | logixoul | aha cool |
| 22:46.44 | margiolas | Luninit: Ok I threw the reality away from my words because I think that kde 4 will give us many new features and usefull tricks |
| 22:46.57 | logixoul | ... |
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| 22:48.03 | lunitik | margiolas: It will indeed... but to "change computer-life"... a little unrealistic... |
| 22:49.08 | margiolas | lunitik: yes I agree with you change computer life was just a phrase nothing else :) |
| 22:49.10 | lunitik | margiolas: New technologies will improve many things... but most appear to be from a programmers point of view... I don't think that much will be different about the interfaces visually... etc... |
| 22:49.16 | *** join/#kde BrigadierFrog (n=tburdick@unaffiliated/themonotone) |
| 22:49.47 | margiolas | lunitik: mayby you have right |
| 22:51.06 | logixoul | lunitik: that's exactly the kind of vision appeal.kde.org is trying to transcend :p |
| 22:51.20 | lunitik | IMO, it'll feel like a significant upgrade from 3.5.5 ... don't get me wrong ... I just don't see it being THAT significant really... |
| 22:51.36 | BrigadierFrog | lunitik: ? |
| 22:51.36 | Renze | time will tell |
| 22:51.41 | BrigadierFrog | oh, 4 ? |
| 22:51.43 | lunitik | logixoul: huh? appeal.kde.org is trying to overhype? |
| 22:52.15 | logixoul | lunitik: i'd rather say 'inspire' :) |
| 22:52.33 | lunitik | logixoul: I think thats a bad idea |
| 22:53.25 | lunitik | logixoul: then you get a lot of let down users... which is bad... no matter what, KDE4 won't fulfill everyones dreams... to let those dreams go even further is counter productive |
| 22:54.12 | BrigadierFrog | how is appeal over hyping? |
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| 22:54.25 | logixoul | lunitik: one small thing - appeal.kde.org is directed at developers, not users i think. |
| 22:55.28 | logixoul | whatever |
| 22:56.23 | logixoul | any specific reason for that? |
| 22:56.49 | lunitik | logixoul: They generally make things more difficult to use in my experience |
| 22:57.04 | logixoul | hmm, interesting. example? :) |
| 22:57.44 | lunitik | logixoul: see Gnome for many examples |
| 22:58.37 | tuxick | i'm giving up, kontac/korganizer just don't work |
| 22:58.42 | lunitik | They usually hide features or try to justify removing them in the name of Usability... |
| 22:59.03 | lunitik | tuxick: cool? works here |
| 22:59.24 | logixoul | lunitik: are you sure it isn't just coders who do that? that's quite different from 'usability experts'. |
| 22:59.28 | *** join/#kde gufymike (n=gufymike@unaffiliated/gufymike) |
| 23:00.17 | lunitik | No, Gnome has many "Usability Experts" in the camp... |
| 23:00.21 | tuxick | lunitik: against opengroupware? |
| 23:00.49 | lunitik | Sure thats not just because OpenGroupware sucks? |
| 23:01.55 | logixoul | lunitik: ok |
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| 23:02.50 | new_suse_user | ok. I just configured the shortcut to ksysguard so that (after asking my password) it launches it as root. It works perfectly, and nothing goes wrong. But it has the annoying popup, "KDEInit could not launch kdesu" that shows up after I enter my password, or cancel |
| 23:03.09 | *** part/#kde margiolas (n=margiola@athedsl-111832.otenet.gr) |
| 23:03.36 | gufymike | does kde allow for animated gif backgrounds/wallpapers to be shown animated? |
| 23:03.39 | tuxick | lunitik: no, the config dialog sucks and it's not sending the correct requests to opengroupware |
| 23:03.39 | logixoul | new_suse_user: what did you use to set the shortcut? "Input Actions" from kcontrol? |
| 23:03.49 | *** join/#kde bsnider (n=brandon@216.167.240.52) |
| 23:03.54 | tuxick | i verified with cadaver |
| 23:03.59 | new_suse_user | "current shortcut key" from kde menu editor |
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| 23:04.46 | logixoul | gufymike: no, but you can set a slideshow as a background (or any working program, including screensavers, for that matter) |
| 23:05.28 | tuxick | lunitik: and most of all: software that fails silently is to be considered broken :) |
| 23:05.41 | gufymike | logixoul: thanks, just one gif I wanted to have animated, I'll keep it as is. |
| 23:05.44 | tuxick | it DOES manage to fetch resource list from server though |
| 23:06.08 | lunitik | tuxick: try running it from Konsole.. it'll fail loudly there more than likely... |
| 23:06.23 | lunitik | tuxick: users are too moronic to yell errors at... it'd just scare them |
| 23:06.27 | logixoul | gufymike: one way to do this is to use konqueror as a background - a workable hack. |
| 23:06.39 | tuxick | lunitik: not a single beep |
| 23:06.42 | *** join/#kde Deformative (n=joe@c-68-61-240-49.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 23:06.52 | new_suse_user | ok. Undid what I did in menu editor, and did the same thing w/ "input actions." still the same |
| 23:07.06 | tuxick | i've tried rebuilding it with --with-debug=all but gentoo ebuilds don't seem to like that |
| 23:07.23 | Deformative | Hmm, can the reason I can not change the wm be because I am using KDE 3.5.1? |
| 23:07.27 | Sutoka | tuxick: make sure you have nostrip as a FEATURE |
| 23:07.41 | gufymike | thanks logixoul |
| 23:07.43 | logixoul | new_suse_user: what happens if you run kdesu from Run Command? |
| 23:07.46 | Sutoka | Deformative: where do you have the variable set? |
| 23:07.52 | logixoul | np |
| 23:08.05 | Deformative | bashrc |
| 23:08.05 | logixoul | Deformative: no |
| 23:08.08 | new_suse_user | logixoul- works just fine. No complaints |
| 23:08.22 | Sutoka | Deformative: do you use startx, or xdm/kdm/gdm? |
| 23:08.27 | Deformative | startx |
| 23:08.51 | logixoul | new_suse_user: and in kmenuedit you've set a shortcut to run something like kdesu ksysguard? |
| 23:08.58 | tuxick | Sutoka: that'd be for -g no? |
| 23:09.07 | new_suse_user | exactly: "kdesu ksysguard %U" |
| 23:09.52 | *** join/#kde hermier (n=hermier@AToulon-151-1-124-25.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 23:09.58 | Sutoka | tuxick: not sure, never needed to keep the debug symbols or compile an app with debug support |
| 23:10.16 | Deformative | Should I try a bash_profile? |
| 23:10.28 | logixoul | night |
| 23:10.50 | new_suse_user | see ya |
| 23:10.55 | Sutoka | Deformative: you could try, or manually setting it before running startx |
| 23:11.03 | Renze | Deformative: why not put it at the beginning of your .xinitrc ? |
| 23:11.08 | Deformative | Alright, I will try both. |
| 23:11.11 | Deformative | Be right back. |
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| 23:11.31 | lunitik | Renze: .xinitrc is deprecated |
| 23:11.36 | tuxick | Sutoka: well i saw "kdDebug" in the code |
| 23:11.41 | tuxick | and i wanted to get that output |
| 23:11.45 | lunitik | umm... obsolete too... |
| 23:11.51 | Renze | lunitik: I haven't used startx since 1999 |
| 23:12.17 | tuxick | i've been spending way too much time on this already |
| 23:12.20 | tuxick | now i want it working |
| 23:12.22 | lunitik | Renze: .xsession ... |
| 23:14.26 | tuxick | maybe i should have a go at kolab |
| 23:14.38 | tuxick | at least that's supposed to work with korganizer :) |
| 23:14.39 | smacnay__ | is there an archiver tool like ark that will work on multiple directories at one time? |
| 23:15.13 | tuxick | tradition! |
| 23:19.29 | tuxick | that's too much like classical X resources |
| 23:19.40 | tuxick | X passes lots of long strings around |
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| 23:21.19 | Deformative | It seems to work only from declaring it before I startx. |
| 23:21.36 | Deformative | I tried xinitrc, but no luck. |
| 23:21.44 | Sutoka | Deformative: do you declare it the same way as you do in .bashrc / .bash_profile ? |
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| 23:22.00 | MetaMorfoziS | by'all |
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| 23:22.14 | Deformative | I did "export KDEWM="e16"" I dunno if that is the correct way. |
| 23:22.39 | Sutoka | did you do it the same way in .bashrc / .bash_profile? |
| 23:22.55 | Deformative | Yes. |
| 23:23.10 | Deformative | No. |
| 23:23.11 | Deformative | Wait. |
| 23:23.30 | Deformative | I didn't have export there. |
| 23:23.49 | Deformative | But how come it works outside of a script. |
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| 23:31.35 | Deformative | How come my gtk theme looks different in kde? |
| 23:32.03 | tuxick | hehe |
| 23:32.05 | Renze | because KDE doesn't enforce a certain DPI, unlike Gnome |
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| 23:32.45 | sorush20 | how do i rung the kdeprintd daemon? |
| 23:32.46 | Deformative | =( It looks fine in a wm all by itself. |
| 23:32.57 | Deformative | How do I make it so that it looks right? |
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| 23:35.26 | odla | what's a good icon theme? |
| 23:35.43 | Renze | "good" is in the eye of the beholder |
| 23:35.52 | odla | of course ;) |
| 23:36.00 | odla | just looking for some recommendations |
| 23:36.07 | odla | mine is nice but kind of boring |
| 23:36.10 | sorush20 | run the kdeprintd |
| 23:36.39 | Sho_ | Renze: Although KDE 3.5.5 can enforce a certain DPI via KControl |
| 23:37.09 | Renze | Sho_: I had noticed that, yes... I still prefer to use the native DPI of my monitor |
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| 23:37.12 | Deformative | Why doesn't KDE enforce it.. |
| 23:37.16 | Deformative | IT makes my theme but ugly. |
| 23:37.20 | Deformative | And difficult to se. |
| 23:37.37 | sorush20 | hi guys how do I run the program? please? |
| 23:37.41 | m4jqp | how can i have kwin and kdebase insatlled at the same time? |
| 23:37.41 | sorush20 | kdeprintd? |
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| 23:38.02 | lunitik | sorush20: kdeprinter |
| 23:38.10 | smileaf | m4jqp: kwin is installed by kdebase |
| 23:38.14 | Deformative | Renze, it makes all my fonts black. |
| 23:38.16 | Renze | m4jqp: kwin is in kdebase... and I'm guessing you're on gentoo, and have yet to learn the difference between monolithic and split ebuilds |
| 23:38.29 | m4jqp | Renze, enlighten me |
| 23:38.31 | Deformative | And some of my text boxes white, but leaves others onyx. |
| 23:38.40 | Renze | m4jqp: not my job... go ask in #gentoo |
| 23:38.45 | m4jqp | :/ |
| 23:38.52 | Sho_ | Deformative: The problems you describe have nothing to do with DPI |
| 23:39.03 | Deformative | Oh, well Renze said it did. |
| 23:39.06 | Deformative | What could it be then? |
| 23:39.10 | Renze | Deformative: sounds like you have some serious breakage there |
| 23:39.17 | Sho_ | Deformative: Could you show us a screenshot perhaps? |
| 23:39.22 | Renze | Deformative: I guessed based on your vague intonations |
| 23:39.27 | Deformative | I startx in e16 or gnome and it looks perfect. |
| 23:41.06 | Renze | Deformative: we cannot work in a vacuum... provide us with enough data and we can help |
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| 23:41.55 | Deformative | Uh, my gtk-2.0 theme has dark backgrounds and light text for text boxes and lists. |
| 23:42.05 | Deformative | But on the list the font is still black. |
| 23:42.08 | Sutoka | oh do you have the gtk-qt theme engine installed? |
| 23:42.15 | Renze | a screenshot would be far more informative |
| 23:42.17 | Sutoka | if so, it may also have the use kde colors set |
| 23:43.03 | Deformative | Sutoka, i do not know. |
| 23:43.10 | Deformative | If I do not know does that mean no? |
| 23:43.11 | Deformative | Or maybe. |
| 23:43.13 | Deformative | Lol. |
| 23:43.17 | Sutoka | go into KControl -> GTK Styles and somethinganother |
| 23:45.38 | Renze | Deformative: go to control centre -> appearance & themes -> colours, and make sure you don't have "Apply colours to non-KDE applications" ticked |
| 23:45.42 | Deformative | I see no GTK Styles in kcontrol. |
| 23:45.54 | sorush20 | lunitik: I don't have that installed and its not being installed since its not in the repos |
| 23:46.02 | Deformative | Oh, thankyou REnze, I think that will work. |
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| 23:46.36 | Renze | no problem |
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| 23:51.31 | DaBlade | Does anyone know how to make FVWM-Crystal show in KDM session types? |
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| 23:53.11 | Sho_ | .oO (eww) |
| 23:53.29 | DaBlade | Sho_: I just wanna install it to play Warsow on it |
| 23:53.35 | DaBlade | Minimal X resource usage ;) |
| 23:53.57 | Renze | DaBlade: use twm :D |
| 23:54.16 | DaBlade | There is a reason I chose FVWM-Crystal. I want it to look half-decent, at least. |
| 23:54.30 | Sho_ | DaBlade: Then why have a window manager at all? Just start Warsow on an X server (xinit is your friend) |
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| 23:55.37 | DaBlade | Cause I'm not the only user of this computer, and teaching others how to switch back to KDE from a command line would be somewhere in between the realms of possibility of U.S. democracy and Chinese democracy. |
| 23:58.54 | DaBlade | Sho_, Renze: Got any ideas? |
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| 23:59.31 | Renze | DaBlade: have a look at the files in $KDEDIR/share/apps/kdm/sessions/ |
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