| 00:00.12 | endra | http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=16264 |
| 00:00.35 | endra | I can't say I know how to install that |
| 00:00.52 | Renze | do you know how to compile source code? |
| 00:01.35 | _Sketch_ | Ack. If I'm using debian, will I still have to compile my own applets? ;) Which would be beside the point of having Debian.. :p |
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| 00:01.52 | Renze | _Sketch_: only if there isn't a debian package made by somebody |
| 00:02.24 | endra | Well, I do but I usually end up making a mess |
| 00:02.27 | Renze | _Sketch_: it's fairly universal that stuff gets released as source... much less so for distro packages |
| 00:02.54 | endra | this is why I like gentoo, I can just 'emerge knetstats' |
| 00:03.07 | endra | emerge keeps everything clean hehe :P |
| 00:03.23 | Renze | endra: you might want to try "emerge knemo" |
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| 00:03.41 | endra | yup will do, but just wondering about the apps on kde-apps.org |
| 00:03.42 | Renze | ne = network, mo = monitor |
| 00:03.53 | _Sketch_ | k = obligatory |
| 00:04.00 | Renze | endra: you can always make ebuilds and put them in an overlay :) |
| 00:04.20 | endra | Renze: I dont know what that means, but its okay I'll figure things out eventually |
| 00:04.28 | endra | I've been in the nix world for about 36 hours now |
| 00:04.35 | Renze | n00b! :D |
| 00:04.38 | endra | .. and most of those hours is trying to get my sound to work |
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| 00:05.12 | _Sketch_ | Sound in Linux.. Yeah, that's a killer. :P I was lucky.. Not lucky with much else though. ;) shakes Skim |
| 00:05.14 | endra | apparently, Im suppose to put 'arts' in my make.conf and rebuild some 300 packages |
| 00:05.26 | Xubuntian | hello, in kde, what's the name of that program to see active processes, memory usage... ? |
| 00:05.27 | Renze | endra: why? I didn't :) |
| 00:05.29 | endra | im at.. 4 |
| 00:05.41 | endra | You know alternatives? :P |
| 00:05.43 | Renze | Xubuntian: ksysguard ? |
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| 00:05.57 | Renze | endra: to arts? just don't use it |
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| 00:06.14 | endra | I followed all of alsa on gentoo handbook, the thing is.. sound works in firefox advertisement, but not in gaim or in amarok, etc |
| 00:06.21 | endra | so im not sure whats going on lol |
| 00:06.23 | Renze | endra: set an external player for system notifications and forget arts ever existed... it's a steaming pile of poo anyway |
| 00:06.41 | Renze | which engine are you using in amarok? |
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| 00:06.47 | endra | I have no idea hehe |
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| 00:07.00 | Renze | *groan* |
| 00:07.23 | endra | Actually, amarok just says 'cannot find mp3 decoder' |
| 00:07.45 | endra | Gaim just doesn't make any noise, and firefox always freaks me out with those 'hellloooo' advertisements |
| 00:07.46 | Renze | endra: chances are you have to enable use flags like mp3 and ogg and rebuild a whole bunch of packages... which is why gentoo isn't a good distro for newbies :D |
| 00:08.12 | endra | ahhh, ok well, do you have a sample USE line for me that has EVERYTHING I need |
| 00:08.18 | endra | so I dont have to recompile all the time lol |
| 00:08.26 | Renze | endra: my USE variable is HUGE |
| 00:08.38 | Renze | and it might not suit your needs |
| 00:08.41 | auxsvr | has anyone seen JRe? |
| 00:08.56 | endra | yea but I dont mind that, as long as I dont have to recompile 300 packages every time I add 3 letters to it |
| 00:09.26 | Renze | endra: http://rafb.net/paste/results/kQllXl20.html |
| 00:09.50 | _knoppix | Sho_: Are you around? |
| 00:10.00 | endra | mmm yea, I dont think im gonna use that |
| 00:10.08 | endra | here is what I have, sec |
| 00:10.21 | Renze | endra: "emerge ufed" |
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| 00:11.28 | endra | http://rafb.net/paste/results/Z7jHnz75.html |
| 00:11.39 | endra | ufed? |
| 00:11.43 | Sho_ | _knoppix: somewhat |
| 00:11.57 | _knoppix | Hey |
| 00:12.03 | _knoppix | Its DaBlade. |
| 00:12.11 | Renze | endra: use flag editor |
| 00:12.29 | _knoppix | Sho_: Would you mind having a look at this and telling me what you think? http://pastebin.ca/241024 |
| 00:13.35 | Sho_ | _knoppix: Looks like a hardware error I guess .. |
| 00:13.56 | _knoppix | Then I guess my harddrive is my new paperweight now. |
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| 00:14.20 | _knoppix | Fucking brilliant... I wish I didnt wake up today. Problems from the moment I woke up. Now, hard drive failure to top it all off. |
| 00:14.27 | auxsvr | check for badblocks |
| 00:14.35 | yetifoot | is anyone familiar with writing a syntax file for kate? |
| 00:14.40 | _knoppix | auxsvr: How? |
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| 00:14.57 | Ardonik | _knoppix: fsck |
| 00:14.57 | auxsvr | first backup the drive |
| 00:15.03 | Ardonik | Yes, back up first. |
| 00:15.04 | _knoppix | Ardonik: tried fsck.ext3 |
| 00:15.08 | _knoppix | didnt help |
| 00:15.18 | Sho_ | _knoppix: Well, you know ... let the drive do a self-test using smartmontools, check with badblocks, give fsck a go ... |
| 00:15.27 | Ardonik | I've lost an ext3 partition unrecoverably before. Fortunately I kept regular nightly backups. |
| 00:15.30 | _knoppix | Sho_: Thanks |
| 00:15.33 | Ardonik | And this was for a home box, mind you. |
| 00:15.48 | Ardonik | I stick to ReiserFS now. |
| 00:15.54 | Ardonik | Cue murderer jokes. |
| 00:15.56 | _knoppix | Ardonik: When you have over 100GB of music, movies, TV etc..., doing backups is neither cheap nor easy. |
| 00:16.05 | Ardonik | Wrong--all it takes is a second hard drive. |
| 00:16.16 | yetifoot | i want to match this <RegExpr attribute="Data Types" context="#stay" String="\b(type)([\s]+[^\s]+[\s]+(as))" insensitive="TRUE"/> , but only return the part up to (type) to Kate, as the next string is not a keyword, but an ident |
| 00:16.17 | Ardonik | A cingle cron job for nightly rsyncs, local-to-local. That's it. |
| 00:16.20 | Ardonik | *single |
| 00:16.30 | auxsvr | it depends on how much the data is worth to you |
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| 00:16.54 | Sho_ | _knoppix: iirc the ext2/3 fsck has a -c option to check for badblocks and add them to the badblocks list (to avoid using them) |
| 00:17.06 | _knoppix | Its not really vaulable, apart from maybe my homework and some misc. files. |
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| 00:17.15 | _knoppix | Sho_: Ok |
| 00:17.18 | Sho_ | _knoppix: But usually when you are starting to get bad blocks, the drive won't live much longer ... long enough for data recovery though maybe |
| 00:17.52 | _knoppix | Sho_: http://pastebin.ca/241053 < what happend when I ran without the c option |
| 00:18.20 | _knoppix | Sho_: Actually, I didnt have problems until I made the stupid mistake of turning off the computer while it was booting. |
| 00:18.29 | _knoppix | (no lectures, please) |
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| 00:20.09 | _knoppix | fsck.ext3: Attempt to read block from filesystem resulted in short read while trying to open /dev/hda1 |
| 00:20.09 | _knoppix | Could this be a zero-length partition? |
| 00:20.13 | _knoppix | Sho_: ^ |
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| 00:21.28 | _knoppix | so how do I use smartmontools? |
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| 00:23.07 | Sho_ | smartmontools -t long <device> will kick off an extended self-test routine |
| 00:23.33 | _knoppix | Weird... smartmontools is supposedly installed, but theres no binary called that |
| 00:23.38 | Sho_ | smartmontools -a <device> shows how far the test is along and the results when they're in |
| 00:24.15 | Sho_ | err, the executable is called smartctl |
| 00:24.21 | _knoppix | oh |
| 00:24.22 | _knoppix | thanks |
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| 00:24.47 | _knoppix | so smartctl -t long /dev/hda -a ? |
| 00:25.31 | _knoppix | or hda1? |
| 00:26.15 | auxsvr | hda |
| 00:27.08 | _knoppix | thanks |
| 00:28.27 | _knoppix | Sho_, auxsvr: http://pastebin.ca/241083 |
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| 00:30.40 | auxsvr | it looks like it has no problem |
| 00:30.54 | _knoppix | But it does. |
| 00:31.10 | auxsvr | maybe something just messed up your superblock |
| 00:31.44 | _knoppix | Well, is it fixable? |
| 00:31.57 | _knoppix | the guys in #debian just told me I got myself a new paperweight. |
| 00:32.30 | auxsvr | it looks so, but smart is clean |
| 00:32.39 | auxsvr | maybe do the long test first |
| 00:33.16 | _knoppix | Please wait 81 minutes for test to complete. |
| 00:33.16 | _knoppix | Test will complete after Mon Nov 6 02:54:00 2006 |
| 00:33.19 | _knoppix | Wow... |
| 00:33.31 | _knoppix | shite. what am I gonna do for the next two hours... |
| 00:33.36 | _Sketch_ | Read a book. |
| 00:34.00 | _knoppix | I'm gonna buy Nineteen Eighty-Four tomorrow, but until then, I got nothing to read |
| 00:34.10 | _knoppix | Except school books, but I shun them whenever possible. |
| 00:41.08 | Sutoka | _knoppix: planetkde.org |
| 00:43.31 | _knoppix | Sutoka: Why? |
| 00:43.46 | _knoppix | Oh...right. |
| 00:43.55 | Sutoka | something to read! :-D |
| 00:44.28 | _knoppix | Sutoka: BTW, do you know why every once in a while, Planet KDE's RSS feed repeats dozens of old posts from various authors? |
| 00:44.40 | Sutoka | yeah thats a known problem |
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| 00:44.53 | Celeste | hi |
| 00:45.13 | endra | shoot, gtg, thanks for help |
| 00:45.15 | Celeste | I heard that kubuntu comes up with KDE 4 |
| 00:45.19 | endra | be back in a couple hours |
| 00:45.21 | Celeste | but there is only KDE 3.5.5 out |
| 00:45.24 | Celeste | how can this be? |
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| 00:46.40 | Sutoka | thats a developer release |
| 00:46.46 | Sutoka | thats not meant to be used by end users |
| 00:47.30 | _Sketch_ | KDE 4? What sort of insane features does that have? |
| 00:47.42 | _Sketch_ | Aside from 'bug 12045'. |
| 00:48.33 | auxsvr | does anyone know nick JRe? |
| 00:48.48 | Sutoka | _Sketch_: loads of crash dialogs |
| 00:48.50 | _knoppix | _Sketch_: Look up the following words on the web: Plasma, phonon, solid (kde), appeal, oxygen (kde) |
| 00:49.20 | Celeste | what is the coolest desktop I can get out of my KDE ? |
| 00:49.32 | Sutoka | Celeste: depends on what you define as 'cool' |
| 00:49.33 | Celeste | Some of my friends pimped up their MS Windows XP |
| 00:49.41 | _Sketch_ | Depends. Do you have a GeForce and a 4GB processor? ;) |
| 00:49.45 | Celeste | would like to pimp my kde too |
| 00:49.47 | Sutoka | Celeste: you can pimp out KDE faaaarrrr easier than XP |
| 00:49.56 | _knoppix | GeForce 6*** |
| 00:50.04 | somekool | i cannot create GIF from kolourpaint? why? |
| 00:50.11 | Sutoka | somekool: what distro? |
| 00:50.25 | _knoppix | Celeste: Then get lots of Superkaramba themes from kde-look.org, customize your colours, theme etc..., get AIGLX with beryl |
| 00:50.41 | _knoppix | And watch games slow down to 5FP :) |
| 00:51.05 | Sutoka | _knoppix: AIGLX with beryl doesn't slow down games generally (if you have nvidia drivers at least) |
| 00:51.16 | _Sketch_ | This reminds me.. Is there any way to change the appearance of windows opening, the on-hover text-bubble appearance of kicker, and... well, generally that sort of thing? |
| 00:51.28 | _knoppix | Sutoka: Maybe not, I haven't really tried that much |
| 00:51.49 | Sutoka | _knoppix: i've used aiglx with beryl with ut2004 and had the game partly transparent and playing at full speed |
| 00:52.08 | Celeste | thank you _knoppix |
| 00:52.19 | Celeste | just found superkaramba |
| 00:52.22 | Celeste | seems to be cool |
| 00:52.23 | Sutoka | Celeste: kde-look.org and kde-apps.org |
| 00:52.53 | Dr_Willis | Hmm.. trying to launch katapult - but alt-space gives me the window-control-menu. heh that because i selected teh 'windows' layout in that kde-first-time tool? (what is the name of that tool. so i can rerun it) |
| 00:53.17 | Sutoka | Dr_Willis: just change it in kcontrol so all your other settings aren't trashed |
| 00:53.35 | Dr_Willis | Sutoka: yea - trying to find out where its at in therel. :) |
| 00:53.59 | Dr_Willis | what is the name of that tool ran at first launch anyway. |
| 00:54.05 | Dr_Willis | i needed to rerun it the other day. |
| 00:54.14 | Sutoka | kpersonalizer is the thing |
| 00:54.29 | Dr_Willis | and here i was looking for kfirst* :) |
| 00:55.10 | Sutoka | Dr_Willis: check in KControl -> Regional & Accessibility -> Keyboard Shortcuts |
| 00:55.43 | Dr_Willis | Sutoka: yea i dident notice any 'space' related shortcuts there. i may of just not seen it. |
| 00:57.48 | Dr_Willis | there we go.. i just changed the whole layout to kde style. :P dident look for a specific setting |
| 00:58.20 | _Sketch_ | Is there any way to tell KDE to open files with a double-click, instead of single? |
| 00:58.30 | Sutoka | _Sketch_: yes in kcontrol |
| 00:58.54 | Sutoka | _Sketch_: kcontrol -> peripherals -> mouse -> double click blah blah blah |
| 00:59.29 | Dr_Willis | That single click Vs Double click.. what fun happens when you change it. Heh |
| 00:59.48 | Dr_Willis | quadruppleclick! |
| 00:59.50 | _Sketch_ | Cool. |
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| 01:06.40 | somekool | Sutoka: gentoo |
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| 01:07.12 | Dhraakellian | gyargh, this bug is annoying |
| 01:07.17 | Sutoka | somekool: enable the gif use flag and recompile at least qt with it |
| 01:07.24 | somekool | k |
| 01:07.34 | Dhraakellian | you can't middle-click in a multiline input field in konqueror without activating autoscroll |
| 01:07.41 | Dhraakellian | well, with autoscroll turned on |
| 01:09.35 | Theory | it took me far too long to remember what middle click does :-s |
| 01:11.24 | Sutoka | arg... i can't get widget styles to work again after i recompiled qt... so far i've recompiled kdelibs, kdeartwork-styles other style i have |
| 01:12.42 | Sutoka | lipstik works though oddly enough... was lipstik added to qt??? |
| 01:12.48 | Sho_ | no |
| 01:13.02 | Sutoka | ok this is weird then |
| 01:13.31 | Sho_ | Sutoka: May be a pathing issue ... new Qt version number, new Qt plugin dir containing the version in the dirname, something like that perhaps |
| 01:17.57 | Sutoka | it was the same version of qt... just slightly different compile options... :-/ |
| 01:19.40 | _Sketch_ | Is there anything KDEish that can make my touchpad act like a tablet? |
| 01:20.34 | Sutoka | _Sketch_: ksynaptics to control your synaptics driver |
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| 01:22.25 | _Sketch_ | I seem to have that.. but I don't see any such option? |
| 01:22.40 | Sutoka | _Sketch_: what do you mean 'act like a tablet'? |
| 01:22.42 | matt_ | sorry previous matt_ |
| 01:22.58 | matt_ | whos now known as _matt |
| 01:22.59 | matt_ | :) |
| 01:23.29 | _Sketch_ | Allow for pressure sensitivity and make the touchpad/monitor isometric. As in.. A particular point on my touchpad is a particular point on my monitor. |
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| 01:25.01 | Sutoka | depends on if your synaptics touchpad actually supports that |
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| 01:27.30 | afaik | I wonder if I should submit my blog entry on TDD anti-patterns to slashdot |
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| 01:32.15 | aseigo | afaik: link? |
| 01:32.43 | afaik | http://blog.james-carr.org/?p=44 |
| 01:34.31 | _Sketch_ | Is 'TDD' test driven development? |
| 01:34.56 | Ardonik | _Sketch_: yes, that's usually what it stands for |
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| 01:38.05 | afaik | _Sketch_, yeah |
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| 01:48.49 | unfo | hi all. Thought experiment: Imagine if the taskbar were built in such a way so that no app would need to have its own tab bar like Firefox does. Wouldn't that be cool? |
| 01:48.50 | Half-Left | :) |
| 01:49.09 | Sutoka | unfo: uh... wouldn't that just mean no tabs in firefox? |
| 01:49.13 | Sutoka | or konqueror |
| 01:49.16 | Sutoka | or konversation... |
| 01:49.26 | Sutoka | that'd get REALLY crowded, really quickly |
| 01:49.29 | Half-Left | Sutoka: hey |
| 01:49.38 | Sutoka | Half-Left: moo? |
| 01:49.56 | Half-Left | :p |
| 01:50.10 | unfo | Sutoka, I mean that there was a tab bar above the taskbar |
| 01:50.13 | Sutoka | Renze: you made extra? |
| 01:50.20 | Renze | Sutoka: just for you |
| 01:50.26 | unfo | or below it |
| 01:50.29 | Sutoka | unfo: kinda like having the stand-alone menu bar? |
| 01:50.33 | unfo | It would show all open child windows in the app you chose on the taskbar. |
| 01:50.48 | unfo | you mean a standalone menu bar like in Mac OS? |
| 01:50.55 | Renze | unfo: that wouldn't work well for people like me that use "focus follows mouse" |
| 01:51.08 | Sutoka | unfo: kde supports having a stand-alone menu bar |
| 01:51.18 | unfo | Sutoka, cool, how? |
| 01:51.23 | unfo | Renze, so dont use FFM :) |
| 01:51.35 | Renze | unfo: I happen to like FFM |
| 01:51.41 | Renze | as do many people I know |
| 01:51.53 | somekool | what are the email clients that deserve attention for Linux, except KMail and Thunderbird? |
| 01:51.58 | unfo | Renze, then perhaps don't enable this hypothetical feature I am imagining? :) |
| 01:52.03 | unfo | somekool, attention? |
| 01:52.17 | Renze | unfo: just commenting that it wouldn't work well for everyone :P |
| 01:52.22 | Sho_ | somekool: Sylpheed and Evolution (both not KDE apps) |
| 01:52.23 | unfo | that's fair. |
| 01:53.34 | unfo | or, there could be 2 tab bars onscreen at once. both would be above the taskbar. One would show all open Firefox windows, and one would show all open Konsole windows. |
| 01:53.50 | Sho_ | People who like focus follows mouse probably also like single-click opening and eat small children. Evil. |
| 01:53.56 | Sutoka | Mailody is a new KDE (or Qt only) mail client for imap |
| 01:54.29 | Half-Left | hmm, Dolphin is interesting |
| 01:54.47 | somekool | Sho_: thanks |
| 01:56.33 | Sutoka | unfo: what if you use konqueror? |
| 01:56.55 | Sutoka | and i doubt it'd work with firefox... they're not very big on supporting kde stuff |
| 01:57.01 | unfo | Sutoka, then it would show konq tabs :) |
| 01:57.09 | Half-Left | Sho_: What do you think of Dolphin? |
| 01:57.50 | Sho_ | Half-Left: I like it a lot, seeing how it implements pretty much exactly the subset of functionality I use in Konqueror, while doing so in a more polished and clean manner. |
| 01:58.13 | Half-Left | Sho_: It's abit like nautilus :p |
| 01:58.52 | Sho_ | Half-Left: I wouldn't know ... I haven't used Nautilus in five years or so |
| 02:00.15 | Half-Left | Sho_: ahh, trust me it's very like it, location bar navigation, location switch view, diskspace view at the bottom |
| 02:00.44 | Sutoka | Half-Left: are you describing konqueror, dolphin, or nautilus? o.O |
| 02:00.48 | Renze | Sutoka: aseigo is using it as a testbed for KDE4 technologies |
| 02:01.01 | Half-Left | Sutoka: Dolphin |
| 02:01.02 | Sho_ | Sutoka: Dolphin is being used as a testbed for KDE4 Konqueror development right now ... chances are good you're going to see a breadcrumb bar as primary path navigator in KDE4 |
| 02:01.05 | Renze | Half-Left: I'm just glad it doesn't do that "spatial" crap |
| 02:01.19 | Half-Left | Sutoka: nautilus has thoughs features |
| 02:01.41 | Sho_ | Half-Left: Nautilus usually looks like a Finder clone on screenshots I encounter |
| 02:01.50 | Sutoka | Renze: hence why i said 2 devs |
| 02:02.26 | Half-Left | Renze: true, it's a taste that needs to be aquired |
| 02:02.40 | aseigo | Sutoka: the version in svn has a number of changes to the last release |
| 02:02.45 | Renze | Half-Left: I've used OSes that used spatial layouts... hated it |
| 02:03.16 | Half-Left | Renze: I used it for a while, takes some getting used to but not ideal |
| 02:03.58 | Sutoka | Half-Left: i've used windows 95... i think ill go with konqueror |
| 02:04.52 | Sho_ | aseigo: Where in SVN is it hiding, btw? |
| 02:04.56 | _Sketch_ | Thanks everyone! |
| 02:04.57 | unfo | I like the breadcrumb bar ISTR is in GNUStep. Never tried KDE4. |
| 02:04.59 | Kim^J | Is there a keyboard command to switch tabs in Konq ? |
| 02:05.10 | Half-Left | Sutoka: heh |
| 02:05.21 | Sho_ | Kim^J: See Settings -> Configure Shortcuts for the list |
| 02:05.29 | aseigo | Sho_: https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/dolphinfileman/trunk/dolphin/ .. i just sent in a 1500 line patch this afternoon as well, so there's more coming.. |
| 02:05.51 | Sho_ | ah, sourceforge ... and here I was, poking around in playground |
| 02:05.56 | aseigo | next will be an import into kde's svn, a port to kde4 and then serious work on the new features. |
| 02:06.08 | unfo | (why isn't Configure Shortcuts part of the main prefs window? why aren't all 3 Configure items combined into 1?) |
| 02:06.25 | ereslibre | arg, konqueror crashes when copying lots of files |
| 02:06.54 | aseigo | unfo: breadth vs depth, and reusability of code |
| 02:07.03 | aseigo | unfo: which are two different reasons, of course =) |
| 02:07.22 | unfo | aseigo, reusability i can understand. breadth vs. depth I don't. |
| 02:07.24 | Half-Left | aseigo: hi |
| 02:07.29 | aseigo | unfo: what would apps with no configure dialog do? how would we put it in the right place? right now it takes exactly 0 lines of code to get those entries in your app |
| 02:07.33 | Sho_ | aseigo: Very happy you and Kevin are working together on the 'kiourl:/' mess, I've enjoyed his Konqueror patchset ;-) |
| 02:07.40 | aseigo | unfo: breadth vs depth of trees. lots of usability research on that |
| 02:07.55 | unfo | aseigo, oh. still, it seems confusing to have 3 separate ones :) |
| 02:08.01 | aseigo | Sho_: kevin and i have worked on a few things in the past... we tend to get along well =) |
| 02:08.05 | ereslibre | aseigo, still want to kill me ? lol i didn't understand why was that bad |
| 02:08.22 | aseigo | ereslibre: kill you? i was off reading something the last half hour or so |
| 02:08.30 | unfo | I guess KDE does not have a standard tabbed configure dialog system for all apps to share? |
| 02:08.32 | Sutoka | unfo: prety much every kde app has it in the same spot, same for toolbars, a little consistency is nice |
| 02:09.27 | aseigo | unfo: sure it does. but not every app has a configuration dialog. |
| 02:09.45 | Sho_ | aseigo: Oops, that patchset was by Simon actually: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2231 |
| 02:10.07 | Half-Left | aseigo: been doing some vector art to get some work together :) |
| 02:10.15 | aseigo | Sho_: ah, that one.. yeah... that's a bit different indeed. not overly sure i like everything in that one |
| 02:11.09 | unfo | aseigo, so if there is one, can't apps without options can have Tools > Configure FooApp contain only a "Keyboard" tab? |
| 02:11.14 | unfo | other apps could have more tabs. |
| 02:11.17 | somekool | Sutoka: my USE flag already had gif and Qt already been compiled with gif support |
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| 02:11.27 | aseigo | unfo: you think our apps need more tabs? =P |
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| 02:11.37 | unfo | aseigo, no comment :) |
| 02:11.41 | aseigo | unfo: not to mention it may be better for learnability if these options are in the same place |
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| 02:12.05 | unfo | i personally love KDE but I dislike having 3 separate Configure options. |
| 02:12.12 | unfo | is there a pollbot here? |
| 02:12.24 | unfo | :) |
| 02:12.48 | aseigo | unfo: measure the effectiveness of it with users ... would be interesting data to have. |
| 02:13.18 | unfo | yeah. i wonder if there's a kde usability team who could look into that. |
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| 02:13.55 | Sho_ | unfo: http://usability.kde.org/ |
| 02:15.32 | Half-Left | aseigo: http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plasmaartqh8.png |
| 02:15.33 | unfo | Sho_, thanks. I asked in #kde-usability. |
| 02:16.07 | Sho_ | unfo: actually, you asked in #openusability ;) |
| 02:16.15 | Half-Left | gah, not many people on kde-artists |
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| 02:16.41 | Sho_ | Half-Left: It's 3 am in Europe, not the best time to find many people in any KDE dev channel ;) |
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| 02:16.58 | Dr_Willis | how about #kde-insomianiacs |
| 02:17.00 | Dr_Willis | :) |
| 02:17.00 | ereslibre | night |
| 02:17.01 | Half-Left | Sho_: I mean the webpage |
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| 02:17.20 | unfo | Sho_, argh :) |
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| 02:18.56 | unfo | Half-Left, there're always mailing lists... :) or ask on a more general channel like this one. or /whois everyone in #kde-artists to find other art channels to join. maybe there'deviantart |
| 02:19.06 | unfo | *there's a deviantart channel here or on efnet? |
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| 02:19.57 | Sutoka | i don't think im a fan of dolphin... ill stick with my konqueror |
| 02:20.38 | Half-Left | unfo: I'll see if I can get someone in kde-artists :p |
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| 02:21.22 | Half-Left | Dolphin is too much like Nautilus IMHO |
| 02:21.38 | Half-Left | not that thats bad |
| 02:22.45 | Sho_ | Those two lines seem somewhat contradictory |
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| 02:23.45 | aseigo | hm.... konvi crashed. |
| 02:23.56 | Sho_ | aseigo: Hmm, backtrace? |
| 02:24.17 | aseigo | Sho_: don't kill me. i was doing something else and clicked the window away before thinking =( |
| 02:24.22 | Half-Left | aseigo: thats what people say, but Dolphin's layout is very simlar |
| 02:24.31 | aseigo | Half-Left: it's not the layout |
| 02:24.33 | Sho_ | aseigo: ah, it happens :( |
| 02:24.35 | aseigo | Half-Left: it's the features and lack thereof |
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| 02:25.14 | Half-Left | in nautilus? :p |
| 02:25.22 | aseigo | yeah. |
| 02:25.27 | aseigo | dolphin now finally has a filter box |
| 02:25.29 | Half-Left | the search has that |
| 02:25.32 | aseigo | though it's still not great. |
| 02:25.43 | Half-Left | or just type .pdf |
| 02:25.53 | Half-Left | and it finds them all |
| 02:26.23 | aseigo | Couldn't display "http://.pdf", because no host ".pdf" could be found. |
| 02:26.25 | aseigo | nice |
| 02:26.36 | Half-Left | no I mean in the search |
| 02:26.43 | Half-Left | search icon |
| 02:26.49 | aseigo | neat |
| 02:26.54 | Half-Left | :/ |
| 02:26.58 | aseigo | ah, the search that doesn't work here. nice. |
| 02:26.58 | Half-Left | wow |
| 02:27.14 | aseigo | and their nav bar has oodles of navigation fuck ups. interesting. |
| 02:27.20 | Half-Left | wow, your distro is messed up :p |
| 02:28.04 | Sho_ | Half-Left: Frankly, I'm not sure how "Dolphin is too much like Nautilus" is saying much at all -- even if the comparison is apt (which I can't tell), that's not exactly an argument based on the merit of specific features or attributes. Resembling a competitor isn't automatically bad if the competitor's app works well. |
| 02:28.50 | aseigo | Half-Left: these are the ubuntu packages (on kubuntu) |
| 02:29.00 | Sho_ | Half-Left: Designing things with "we can't look too much like competing application X" in mind would be rather silly ;) |
| 02:29.04 | aseigo | Couldn't find "/home/aseigo/*.pdf" <-- ++lame |
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| 02:29.26 | Half-Left | Sho_: well people have been saying nautilus is useless for years and now Dolphin is very simlar, I'll leave you do put 2+2 together |
| 02:29.55 | Sho_ | (Considering Nautilus looks pretty much exactly like Mac OS X Finder plus a breadcrumb bar on those Ubuntu screenshots, the Gnome guys aren't overly afraid of semblance either) |
| 02:30.14 | Half-Left | aseigo: should be fine, I use nautilus in edgy sometime back and the search was super fast |
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| 02:30.36 | aseigo | Sho_: it's nothing like the finder in os x |
| 02:30.37 | lostson | hehe |
| 02:30.56 | Sho_ | aseigo: I haven't actually used it, just glancing at screenshots |
| 02:30.57 | Half-Left | Sutoka: dont all OS's ? :p |
| 02:30.59 | aseigo | hm. and for some reason it's god awful slow on listing some dirs |
| 02:31.24 | Sho_ | Finder is a pretty annoying application, primarily because it's rather unpredictable in in which mode it will come up at any given time |
| 02:31.25 | Half-Left | aseigo: nautilus is yes |
| 02:31.38 | joss | hmm, some autocollapse features some clucene apps offer allready? |
| 02:31.46 | joss | beagle kat? |
| 02:32.11 | joss | rlocate..finder does it as autocollapse, ultra fast as it seems |
| 02:32.19 | Half-Left | aseigo: second time is faster, filesystem has alot to do with it, XFS was slow as hell |
| 02:32.20 | joss | acutally the only thing i like in macosx |
| 02:32.30 | aseigo | and wow does gtk+ have a lot of focus/drawing issues (e.g. lineedits not clearing visual focus when alt tabbing) |
| 02:32.51 | lostson | what are you guys tearing apart |
| 02:33.34 | aseigo | neat. "Connect to Server" is broken too. how do people =use= this? |
| 02:33.40 | Sutoka | lostson: nautilus/finder... GOOD FUN FOR ALL! |
| 02:33.41 | Sho_ | lostson: Dolphin, Nautilus and Finder |
| 02:33.51 | aseigo | lostson: i'm trying to use nautilus to see if there are any good ideas to glean from it |
| 02:33.55 | lostson | ahh got it |
| 02:34.11 | joss | aseigo: you know kicker applets several? |
| 02:34.16 | aseigo | several? |
| 02:34.18 | Sutoka | aseigo: don't forget to include 'what /not/ to do' |
| 02:34.19 | joss | aseigo: is there something like in winxp |
| 02:34.25 | joss | aseigo: close all windows |
| 02:34.28 | aseigo | Sutoka: yeah, that too... |
| 02:34.45 | aseigo | joss: close all windows? you mean "Show Desktop" or actually "close every window" |
| 02:34.54 | Sho_ | aseigo: If you have access to a Mac OS X box, I suggest having a look at CocoaTech's PathFinder, which was also one of the first to use breadcrumbs: http://www.cocoatech.com/pf4/ |
| 02:35.03 | joss | aseigo: ctrl and mark them all and choose close all from menu, instead doing close close close with all of them using mouse |
| 02:35.06 | Half-Left | Dont you agree Dolphin is very like nautilus? |
| 02:35.10 | Sho_ | aseigo: PathFinder is somewhat bloated, but it's certainly interesting to look at in terms of ideas |
| 02:35.23 | aseigo | Half-Left: it has a breadcrumb and a view. otherwise i think they are pretty different in many ways |
| 02:35.34 | joss | aseigo: this could be very useful |
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| 02:35.39 | aseigo | Half-Left: it' s more like nautilus than konqueror is though |
| 02:35.43 | Half-Left | aseigo: the UI layout is very simlar |
| 02:36.22 | Sutoka | the lack of features reminds me of nautilus |
| 02:36.40 | joss | aseigo: did you understand what i ment? |
| 02:36.49 | Sho_ | Half-Left: Because it has a toolbar, a navigation bar and a status bar? ;) |
| 02:36.49 | Half-Left | the location bar is identical somewhat |
| 02:36.52 | joss | aseigo: perhaps there is an applet that does this? |
| 02:37.10 | joss | aseigo: as close group of marked windows |
| 02:37.22 | aseigo | joss: not that i know of. |
| 02:37.33 | aseigo | Half-Left: they are both breadcrumbs, yes |
| 02:37.43 | Half-Left | Sho_: if you've used nautilus 2.16 then you'll know what I'm talking about |
| 02:37.43 | aseigo | Sutoka: working on fixing that |
| 02:38.05 | joss | should check, perhaps this is now too hard to code.. |
| 02:38.12 | aseigo | oh look it has a free space thing in the status bar too. except it sometimes disapears, is hard to spot and looks like shit. neat. |
| 02:38.13 | Half-Left | aseigo: and the diskspace free and the location bar changer |
| 02:38.18 | joss | has someone wrote an applet logged on here? |
| 02:38.53 | joss | aseigo: what kind? |
| 02:39.02 | Sho_ | Half-Left: Well, again, even if your comparison is apt, I don't see how it communicates anything useful ... |
| 02:39.13 | Sho_ | PathFinder: http://www.cocoatech.com/pf4/images/mainWindow.png |
| 02:39.23 | aseigo | Sho_: ew. wow. from the screenshot it looks like konqi but ... somehow even busier. |
| 02:40.08 | aseigo | ahahahahaha |
| 02:40.12 | Sho_ | aseigo: Yeah, it's definitely extremely busy, but from the perspective of "looking a other file managers to find inspiration", busy means many ideas to look at and evaluate and distill into something simpler ;) |
| 02:40.20 | aseigo | nautilus just crashed while selecting files with the rubber band |
| 02:40.23 | aseigo | fuck |
| 02:40.26 | Sutoka | i think that program has every single file navigation paradigm in a single window... all they need to do is throw in spatial browsing and they would have it |
| 02:40.30 | Half-Left | Sho_: it shows that the people who have said nautilus is useless are wrong, people claim Konqueror is the best, hmm, Dolphin puts a spin on things |
| 02:40.32 | aseigo | ok, that was a depressing experience. |
| 02:41.12 | aseigo | Half-Left: it's not the UI. |
| 02:41.46 | aseigo | ever since posting those shots on my blog i've been dealing with people coming at it from every conceivably silly angle |
| 02:42.04 | Half-Left | aseigo: because use users dont think like you devs |
| 02:42.09 | Half-Left | us* |
| 02:42.13 | aseigo | Half-Left: i wish. it's also been the devs. |
| 02:42.30 | aseigo | Half-Left: users and the devs may think differently, but not necessarily more logically ;) |
| 02:42.39 | Half-Left | we just see whats on top |
| 02:43.23 | Sho_ | Half-Left: It simply goes beyond superficial layout similarities. If you read the kfm-devel thread on Konqueror 4 and the Dolphin breadcrumb bar in particular, you'll quickly get a sense of how many implementation details even that seemingly simple widget involves, and how easily an implementation that looks the same on the surface can fall apart rapidly in actual usage. |
| 02:43.26 | Half-Left | I wondered what breadcrums was, heh |
| 02:43.27 | aseigo | Half-Left: i think when people say "nautilus is useless" or some measure thereof they are speaking of the features .. or rather, lack of them.. |
| 02:43.42 | joss | aseigo: kicker and it's applets are in what part of kde? |
| 02:43.45 | joss | kdelibs, kdebase? |
| 02:43.56 | joss | can not find webcvs for kde |
| 02:44.12 | Renze | joss: kde uses svn, not cvs |
| 02:44.15 | aseigo | Half-Left: when people say konqi is useless i think they are speaking of the bad ui elements (sidebars are nasty, the toolbars can be cluttered and the config dialog is onerous) |
| 02:44.15 | aseigo | joss: kdebase/kicker/ |
| 02:44.17 | Half-Left | aseigo: well, how do you define useless and simple? |
| 02:44.21 | aseigo | Half-Left: so it's more useful to be specific rather than general =) |
| 02:44.31 | aseigo | Half-Left: useless == i can't get my work done |
| 02:44.37 | aseigo | simple == not complex |
| 02:44.38 | Sho_ | Half-Left: But even if Nautilus' implementation of those features would totally rock, what's wrong with adopting them? Again, a design discussion should be about the merit of things, looking at earlier implementations (as found in competitors' applications as well) for things learned, and not try to avoid looking like a competitor |
| 02:44.48 | Half-Left | well a filemanager manages files |
| 02:44.50 | aseigo | complex == lots of stuff to deal with in a way that makes me think too much |
| 02:44.51 | joss | Renze: ah ok found it |
| 02:44.59 | aseigo | Sho_: yerp |
| 02:45.03 | joss | Renze: kdebase/kicker, svn yeah.. |
| 02:45.13 | joss | http://websvn.kde.org/branches/KDE/3.5/kdebase/kicker/applets/ |
| 02:45.29 | aseigo | "be inspired by the best, warned away by the worst. season with personal inspiration." |
| 02:45.50 | joss | wonder, if it could be a code integrated into taskbar or new applet |
| 02:45.56 | Half-Left | Sho_: I have no problem with Dolphin being like it is, it's the looking like nautilus which people will moan about |
| 02:46.00 | aseigo | my other favourite confusion point in all of this has been the difference between "browser" and "manager" |
| 02:46.22 | aseigo | browser == "web browser" for a lot of people and so saying we're creating a file manager and keeping konqi a browser lights fires |
| 02:46.30 | Renze | Half-Left: rule #1: users are dumb ;) |
| 02:46.35 | aseigo | so i define "browser" better and 2 emails later they forget anyways |
| 02:46.42 | Half-Left | Renze: i'm not dumb :p |
| 02:46.56 | aseigo | users and developers. dumb and dumber? ;) |
| 02:46.58 | Renze | Half-Left: referring to "average users" ;) |
| 02:47.15 | Sho_ | Half-Left: Well in my experience the zealots are only seldomly the people who actually do the work in the end =) |
| 02:47.17 | aseigo | Half-Left: what would you want a file manager to be able to do? (serious question) |
| 02:47.37 | aseigo | Sho_: the more useful question is how many of the people who do the work are zealots? |
| 02:47.52 | aseigo | 99% of zealots may do nothing, but perhaps 99% of people who do something are zealots ;) |
| 02:48.04 | aseigo | implying a lot of zealots, few workers or both |
| 02:48.07 | Sho_ | hmmmmm ... ;-) |
| 02:48.25 | Half-Left | aseigo: Simple, easy to navigate, be a file manager not a swiss army knife |
| 02:48.37 | aseigo | Half-Left: ok, that's not helpful. give me things you'd like to DO |
| 02:48.38 | Renze | aseigo: make mine a double |
| 02:48.45 | aseigo | Renze: lagavulin ok? |
| 02:48.50 | aseigo | Renze: and how do you take it? |
| 02:49.01 | Renze | on the rocks |
| 02:49.11 | Half-Left | aseigo: well, all filemanager do it |
| 02:49.19 | Half-Left | file managers* |
| 02:49.31 | Renze | aseigo: I just like it cold ;) |
| 02:49.54 | Renze | like a bottle of schnapps that has been in the freezer for a week :D |
| 02:49.58 | aseigo | Half-Left: let's pretend we were making a file manager from scratch and have no requirements on paper. what should it do? what should it not do? what should be possible with it? |
| 02:50.20 | aseigo | last schnapps i had was a shooter and i thought it was vodka when passed to me |
| 02:50.22 | aseigo | not fun. |
| 02:50.27 | Half-Left | aseigo: thats a long list, your asking alot |
| 02:50.43 | Sho_ | Pondering what I actually do in my file manager, I notice that 9/10 times, I use it to move files from one place to another, usually involving a horizontal split. Often to remote places, like two computers in my LAN or a webserver. Moving more than any other action. |
| 02:50.45 | aseigo | Half-Left: welcome to my world. so start at either end: easy stuff or obscure stuff. |
| 02:51.12 | Half-Left | aseigo: Well, thats why I did a UI mockup |
| 02:51.16 | aseigo | Half-Left: oh? |
| 02:51.19 | aseigo | oh right |
| 02:51.43 | Half-Left | I was trying to make it do what I want it to do |
| 02:51.59 | Half-Left | at the same time try to be different |
| 02:52.05 | Half-Left | but easy |
| 02:52.18 | Sho_ | aseigo: Speaking of drop zones, the "Drop Stack" in that uber-busy PathFinder (http://www.cocoatech.com/pf4/images/mainWindow.png) is an interesting sort of visual clipboard |
| 02:52.55 | Half-Left | aseigo: You didnot see my vector art then? :p |
| 02:53.00 | aseigo | Sho_: yeah, that's the idea |
| 02:53.18 | aseigo | Sho_: i really like the concept of places you can throw piles of shit |
| 02:53.25 | Sho_ | aseigo: absolutely =) |
| 02:53.43 | aseigo | drop, navigate, drop dorp drop, navigate, navigate, drop drop ... navigate and pull them all out together. |
| 02:53.45 | aseigo | perfect |
| 02:53.52 | aseigo | like virtual folders |
| 02:53.53 | Renze | heh... throwing piles of shit... sounds like the monkey cage at the zoo :D |
| 02:54.03 | aseigo | could also be seen as a form of implicit tagging |
| 02:54.36 | Sho_ | yup, definitely a useful mechanic - I use it all the time in PathFinder (mine doesn't look quite as busy as that money shot, either ..) |
| 02:54.56 | aseigo | haha.. money shot. =) |
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| 02:55.52 | Endler | I like to split panes and drag files between panes (copy. move, create links), alter permissions, and get have a lot of file manipulations available via a right click context menu. Easy diff compare between panes would be nice, as would a md5 and sha1 checksum generatation available via a right click on a file. |
| 02:56.01 | aseigo | heh. i love how my cat chases balls when i throw them. great feature. |
| 02:56.23 | Renze | aseigo: cats like laser pointers too |
| 02:56.25 | aseigo | Endler: hmm.. easy diffs, checksums.. good ideas. |
| 02:56.33 | aseigo | Renze: yeah, that's good fun too =) |
| 02:56.58 | aseigo | Renze: this cat plays with his ball for hours every day ... batting it around.. paw to paw across the room... |
| 02:56.58 | Half-Left | Why would a user want checksums?, some on :P |
| 02:57.04 | Half-Left | come* |
| 02:57.11 | Sho_ | Curiously, I prefer the "Copy to" and Move to" context menus in Konqueror to using a directory tree in the sidebar ... |
| 02:57.14 | aseigo | multi-pane features ... hm.. neat |
| 02:57.23 | Sutoka | Half-Left: if they download a file... |
| 02:57.41 | aseigo | not very visually pretty yet or wonderfully usable with the lack of a title, but it works |
| 02:57.53 | aseigo | Sho_: yeah, i love those too |
| 02:57.58 | Sho_ | And the best feature of a breadcrumb bar is being able to drop stuff on segments |
| 02:58.11 | Half-Left | Sutoka: hardly the average joe's number one feature |
| 02:58.28 | Endler | I use those too. It depends on the situation. |
| 02:58.32 | Sutoka | Half-Left: neither is moving files |
| 02:59.00 | Sutoka | Half-Left: its very useful if you download a file and wanna make sure it downloaded correctly |
| 02:59.11 | Half-Left | everyone moves files in some form or another |
| 02:59.11 | Endler | They are handy unless you need to weave your way through a really long tree to get to the destination |
| 02:59.38 | Sho_ | I think the prospect of a revamped Konqueror with stronger individual manager and browser loadouts is probably what I find most exciting about KDE4, all things considered =) |
| 03:00.03 | aseigo | there's a ton of great shit coming in kde4 =) |
| 03:00.16 | Renze | ditto |
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| 03:00.37 | aseigo | though i suppose being involved in developing it i should be. otherwise how would anyone else care? hehe |
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| 03:00.48 | aseigo | "yeah, this is our next release. it's pretty boring. blah." |
| 03:01.16 | Endler | I just hope 3.5 doesn't start grinding to a halt in the intermin--only because I think 4.0 is going to take much longer to finalize than anticipated. |
| 03:01.26 | Half-Left | aseigo: I try to think, whats the best way to get from one directory to another the easiest way, try to show the user where he can go, sort of like a mouse over visualization |
| 03:01.26 | Renze | aseigo: imitation of a Microsoft employee? ;) |
| 03:01.45 | aseigo | Renze: lol |
| 03:01.54 | Sho_ | (Last night I actually dreamt I had won the lottery, and used the money to employ about half of #kde-devel for a year to finish the big 4 ..) |
| 03:01.55 | aseigo | Renze: actually, they are usually bizarely excited |
| 03:02.00 | aseigo | Half-Left: yerp |
| 03:02.05 | Renze | aseigo: only because they're payed to be :D |
| 03:02.07 | aseigo | Sho_: that's the spirit! |
| 03:04.57 | Sho_ | Endler: 3.5 is technicaly in maintenance and bugfix mode, but due to the longer 4.0 release cycle there is a sort of 'feature thaw', i.e. timid feature additions are allowed provided they're well-tested and already present in KDE 4. Some developers are bending those rules a little though, and it looks like there might be a larger amount of kdepim features coming to 3.5 in the not too distant future. |
| 03:05.17 | Roey | wow |
| 03:05.30 | Roey | do you suppose KDE4's Konqueror will finally be able to zoom images along with the text? |
| 03:05.41 | Sho_ | Endler: And of course Kopete 0.12 was already allowed into the 3.5 branch after it had stabilized sufficiently |
| 03:06.59 | Endler | I was kind of thinking about kdepim. They've done so much well-needed bug fixing of late I kind of with they'd do something like a 3.5.5.2 just to flush all those fixes into the mainstream pipeline. |
| 03:07.43 | Sutoka | theres kdepim 3.5.5+ branch |
| 03:08.08 | Half-Left | Roey: Zoom text? |
| 03:08.37 | Sutoka | Half-Left: scale the entire page, including images, not just text |
| 03:08.42 | Sho_ | Endler: 3.5.6 isn't too far off |
| 03:09.08 | Endler | Really? How close? |
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| 03:10.40 | Roey | Half-Left: to zoom images along with the text |
| 03:10.45 | Sho_ | Endler: January, I suppose |
| 03:11.00 | Roey | Sho_: is there a roadmap of planned features ? |
| 03:11.13 | Half-Left | Roey: why bother? |
| 03:11.14 | Endler | Actually, I'd be quite satisfied if the majority of time in 3.5 was spend really getting down to squash longer overdo bugs to make it solid as a rock. |
| 03:11.58 | Sutoka | Roey: its nice if you have a really high resolution monitor |
| 03:12.03 | Roey | Half-Left: ok, that's it... that's the standard response I hear when I ask these things... dude, the answer's not "why bother?", that's just complacence talking. |
| 03:12.07 | Roey | Sutoka: and I do have a high-rez monitor. |
| 03:12.12 | Sutoka | Half-Left: oops meant that for you |
| 03:12.15 | Half-Left | All of these features, how does one even make a KDE4 file manager :p |
| 03:12.15 | Endler | That bugfest bonanza or whatever they called it for kdepim was a good idea. |
| 03:12.29 | Sutoka | Roey: and i have a high res laptop screen (hehe i meant that message for Half-Left ) |
| 03:12.32 | Roey | ah :) |
| 03:12.32 | Sho_ | Endler: 3.5.x release are always predominantly for maintenance and bugfixing. There are usually no new features allowed in x.y.z releases. The 3.5.x series is an exception due to 4.0 taking longer. |
| 03:12.39 | Roey | Half-Left: firefox has had it for years |
| 03:12.41 | Sho_ | Roey: No, there never is |
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| 03:12.59 | Roey | Half-Left: it's one of the features that I've been annoyed with on Konqueror |
| 03:13.26 | linux_galore | pfft I have a RHRM (Ridiculously High Resolution Monitor) |
| 03:13.26 | Roey | Half-Left: also, the idea of multi-row tabs. I want to half multiple-row tabs, so that the tab doesn't get smooshed up |
| 03:13.28 | Half-Left | Roey: wel you cannot have everything |
| 03:13.41 | Roey | Half-Left: that's just another canned statement 1:) |
| 03:13.41 | linux_galore | :-P |
| 03:13.42 | Roey | ! :) |
| 03:13.49 | Sutoka | Half-Left: if you have a normal size monitor, but REALLY high resolution, then fonts are really small on websites, so if you raise the font size the layout on pretty much EVERY website will break horribly |
| 03:13.52 | Roey | Half-Left: it's not as if it's impossible to bring to fruitition. |
| 03:14.12 | Roey | Sutoka: also, we're talking about zooming in on the images themselves, /along with/ the text. |
| 03:14.15 | Half-Left | Roey: more bugs |
| 03:14.28 | Sutoka | Roey: yeah, scale the entire page like opera will do |
| 03:14.29 | Roey | Half-Left: why make kde4 then, it'll just bring about more bugs |
| 03:14.51 | Sutoka | Half-Left: all features bring bugs... |
| 03:14.52 | Sho_ | Roey: I suggest reading http://webkit.org/blog/?p=55 |
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| 03:15.00 | Roey | Sutoka: in #khtml they gave me a whole schpiel about how it's not the Most Elegant solution to simply resize the page |
| 03:15.04 | Sutoka | Half-Left: every time you touch code it adds more bugs practically |
| 03:15.07 | Roey | Sho_: right, I think you and I talked about it :) |
| 03:15.13 | Sho_ | Roey: yep ;) |
| 03:15.31 | Half-Left | Roey: well it's not about "What features can I have" Konqueror sucks because it dont open my can of coke |
| 03:15.47 | Half-Left | Sutoka: even if it's written well? |
| 03:15.48 | Roey | HA |
| 03:15.48 | Renze | konqueror won't make pizza :( |
| 03:15.49 | Roey | hahahahah |
| 03:15.52 | Roey | Sho_: you're out of your mind :) |
| 03:15.57 | Roey | Sho_: it's not all SVG out there |
| 03:16.02 | Roey | Sho_: images include things like photos as well. |
| 03:16.02 | aseigo | Renze: you just need the right plugin. |
| 03:16.08 | Roey | Sho_: and the article doesn't discuss those. |
| 03:16.18 | aseigo | Renze: under tools i have "Prepare edibles" which brings up a dialog with a list.. in the list is "pizza" |
| 03:16.20 | Sho_ | Roey: Of course it does discuss those |
| 03:16.25 | linux_galore | Half-Left: have you installed the kio_coke-opener plugin |
| 03:16.26 | Endler | Maybe kdepim just follows it's own drummer compared to the rest of the project. I've been wanting to use it for a long time, but they kept adding features rather then address very grave data integrity issues that were open for a couple years--really have me scratching my head what the use of refurnishing a boat with a hole in the bottom. :) |
| 03:16.40 | Renze | aseigo: send me the plugin!!!1!one |
| 03:16.45 | Roey | Sho_: so basically I'm getting that it'd be better to wait for the whole world to switch to svg before starting development on The Most Perfect method of web page zooming. |
| 03:16.47 | aseigo | Endler: oversimplification |
| 03:16.59 | Sho_ | Roey: Please read the article first, before rambling on |
| 03:16.59 | aseigo | Endler: the features they've been adding have been "must haves" by large segments of users |
| 03:17.02 | Roey | Sho_: why not just make one _now_, given its imperfections, while coding The Most Perfect one for later? |
| 03:17.06 | linux_galore | Half-Left: not to be confused with the kio_coke-smoker plugin, I did that once and ended married |
| 03:17.14 | aseigo | Endler: whilst the holes in the boat have been large architectural issues which they are addressing in kde4 |
| 03:17.15 | Sutoka | Sho_: it'd also be nice if all websites followed the standards, zooming (scaling) works on already existing websites |
| 03:17.16 | Sho_ | Roey: The article discusses all aspects involved in getting to the point of applying a scaling factor to websites |
| 03:17.20 | Half-Left | linux_galore: no, not and i've not installed the "kio_very_funny plugin ether |
| 03:17.24 | linux_galore | s/ended/ended up/ |
| 03:17.36 | Roey | Sho_: please consider what I said above, though. The method they discuss in the article relies on much additional development and/or cooperation from webmasters. |
| 03:17.55 | Roey | Sho_: but a lot of us can wait on the most perfect solution; we just need something that works now. |
| 03:18.13 | aseigo | Endler: people do end up putting those two events together in an unflattering way ("adding features while not fixing those grave bugs!") which is understandable if one doesn't have an intimate knowledge of the project, but it's not really reflrective of what has been going on |
| 03:18.22 | Endler | I was only referring to Kmail, to KDE in general :) |
| 03:18.25 | Roey | Sho_: I'd love to be able to just zoom the whole stupid web page along with the bitmap photos. An example of this is at CNN, or FOX or any news site, when I want to increase the physical size of the photo. |
| 03:18.29 | aseigo | Endler: yeah, i know |
| 03:18.48 | Half-Left | Roey: Firefox dont do what Konqueror does, so it's hard to balance it |
| 03:19.02 | Sho_ | Roey: Yes, and there are technical issues that need to be resolved in browsers, websites and operating systems before you can |
| 03:19.04 | Roey | Sho_: Opera already does this, as was mentioned before |
| 03:19.04 | aseigo | Endler: the imap deletion when using flakey networks, for example, is a grave bug.. and not one that's realistically fixable in kde3 given the road they started down some 5 years ago |
| 03:19.11 | linux_galore | Roey: it could be done if Konqueror takes a snapshot of the page in svg and then allows you to zoom |
| 03:19.12 | aseigo | Endler: ditto for things like filters blocking |
| 03:19.27 | Roey | linux_galore: opera does it however it does, and it has been doing it for years |
| 03:19.37 | Roey | Sho_: the above applies to your argument, too |
| 03:19.40 | aseigo | linux_galore: snapshoting a bitmap and embedding it in a vector format doesn't magically make the bitmap zoomable |
| 03:19.56 | linux_galore | Roey: yeah but Opera I find mucks up the layout |
| 03:20.05 | Roey | linux_galore: I'd still love to zoom in on an image. |
| 03:20.07 | Half-Left | Roey: maybe Compiz can do a plugin for that which Konqueror can use |
| 03:20.09 | Sutoka | aseigo: it'd be zoomable, but it'd look like crap :-D |
| 03:20.23 | Roey | Half-Left: aye |
| 03:20.26 | aseigo | Sutoka: if only html were built for such things |
| 03:20.32 | Sutoka | Half-Left: it works much better if the font is rendered at the right size |
| 03:20.46 | aseigo | css was the dumbest idea ever. ever. |
| 03:21.03 | Half-Left | Sutoka: maybe like kpdf does when zooming? |
| 03:21.08 | Sutoka | aseigo: if only web developers cared at all about their page working in all browsers, and on different resolutions |
| 03:21.08 | aseigo | it only looked brilliant because it was laid next to an even more stupid thing: html. |
| 03:21.14 | Sutoka | Half-Left: yeah |
| 03:21.44 | linux_galore | renames w3c wSc (we smoke crack) |
| 03:22.11 | Endler | Sutoka, You're still having problems with dpi monitor? Both my monitor are high res 105 dpi, and 126 dpi and fonts look amazingly smooth as long as KDE is getting the correct dpi from Xorg. |
| 03:22.33 | Sutoka | Endler: fonts loook fine, but they are INCREDIBLY small unless i really jack up the resolution |
| 03:22.44 | Endler | Fonts should be the same size as they are for everyone else |
| 03:22.52 | Endler | unless your xorg dpi is wrong |
| 03:23.00 | Endler | That's what it does |
| 03:23.08 | linux_galore | Endler: need the whole thing to be a vector format for that |
| 03:23.22 | linux_galore | Isnt it time that web pages were a vector format |
| 03:23.24 | Half-Left | I crank up the minimal font size |
| 03:23.24 | Sho_ | Endler: Except that most websites specify font sizes in px, not in resolution-independent units |
| 03:23.42 | Sho_ | Endler: And that the designers who do this use Windows, which uses fixed 96 or 120 dpi values |
| 03:23.45 | Endler | keeps fonts and a specific size, just use more pixels per font for higher dpi screens |
| 03:24.19 | Endler | I don't have many issues with that anymore. |
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| 03:24.29 | linux_galore | yeah I have different monitors with different resolutions and I have to redo the defaults for the browser/s on every dam machine |
| 03:24.37 | Endler | And Opera even addresses the issue of scaling graphics along with the text. |
| 03:24.53 | Endler | biggest issue I have is that OO Calc forgot to scale the input line. |
| 03:25.05 | linux_galore | I wish there was a hook between X and kde font size defaults to fix this automatically |
| 03:25.07 | Roey | Endler: wow |
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| 03:25.25 | Endler | It's fixed at 96 and it's an oversight because everything else is scaled properly |
| 03:25.37 | Endler | Hard to believe they didn't test it. |
| 03:25.57 | bmheartiezofamer | HELLO IM HAPPY THAT LILO IS DED2ME (BURN IN HELL FAT PIECE OF SHIT) LOL AND IM THE ONE CALLING SLOWMAN_KING'S GRANDMA AND DAD LOL IVE BEEN INSULTING THEM A LOT - I ALSO TROLLED JIMBO "LOL" WALES NEVAR4GET. VISIT US AT HTTP://WWW.GNAA.US - IRC.GNAA.US #GNAA -- BLACKMAN HEARTIEZ OF AMERICA DCC SEND "LOL_JEWS_DID_wTC_LOL_WHAt" 0 0 0 0 |
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| 03:26.07 | Sho_ | Endler: Both Gnome and Windows use 96dpi, so it's a corner case for them |
| 03:26.08 | Sutoka | stupid ass-bots |
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| 03:26.19 | bmheartiezofamer | HELLO IM HAPPY THAT LILO IS DED2ME (BURN IN HELL FAT PIECE OF SHIT) LOL AND IM THE ONE CALLING SLOWMAN_KING'S GRANDMA AND DAD LOL IVE BEEN INSULTING THEM A LOT - I ALSO TROLLED JIMBO "LOL" WALES NEVAR4GET. VISIT US AT HTTP://WWW.GNAA.US - IRC.GNAA.US #GNAA -- BLACKMAN HEARTIEZ OF AMERICA DCC SEND "LOL_JEWS_DID_wTC_LOL_WHAt" 0 0 0 0 |
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| 03:26.25 | *** kick/#kde [bmheartiezofamer!i=unknown@konversation/developer/hein] by Sho_ (Sho_) |
| 03:26.26 | linux_galore | wouldnt it be cool to be able to run kde open a browser and the fonts as set to work with your monitor resolution |
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| 03:26.56 | linux_galore | s/as/are/ |
| 03:26.57 | Endler | Well, that thing is. It is really easy to test for dpi scaling even if you don't actually have a high dpi monitor. |
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| 03:27.01 | Ardonik | purpleposeidon, lostson, phr0z3n, Dhraakellian, hollywoodb: that "dcc send" explit is *really old*. |
| 03:27.03 | Sho_ | linux_galore: That would work right now, if it weren't for stupid web designers using non-resolution-independent units to specify font sizes |
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| 03:27.09 | Ardonik | It's your routers that are to blame. |
| 03:27.10 | Endler | Just fake xorg into thinking you do |
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| 03:27.33 | Endler | or hardcode the higher dpi into the fonts section. |
| 03:27.37 | Dhraakellian | doubleyew-tee-eff? |
| 03:27.52 | Sho_ | Other than that, Qt is developing into the direction of using resolution-dependend vector UIs |
| 03:27.58 | Sho_ | *independent |
| 03:28.06 | Endler | KDE 3.5.5 let you override xorg now. |
| 03:28.11 | Sho_ | Mac OS X is somewhat farther along in that, though |
| 03:28.17 | Endler | Yeah, it's LONG over due |
| 03:28.30 | Ardonik | http://nvd.nist.gov/nvd.cfm?cvename=CVE-2006-1068 |
| 03:28.32 | Endler | Basically I think Windows was holding everything back |
| 03:28.38 | Endler | because it doesn't scale right |
| 03:28.42 | linux_galore | well OSX uses postscript so they can get away with it easier |
| 03:28.44 | Dhraakellian | why the mass highlight? |
| 03:28.57 | linux_galore | although fonts can suck in OSX too |
| 03:29.02 | Ardonik | Dhraakellian: for the URL I just pasted. |
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| 03:29.27 | Ardonik | Any time someone sends a public message containing the string "dcc send", you and a handful of others will be disconnected. |
| 03:29.42 | Ardonik | WEll, containing a string such as the one described in the URL. |
| 03:30.16 | Renze | I'm glad I don't have a Netgear ;) |
| 03:30.19 | Sho_ | linux_galore: The OSX Leopard builds are pretty spiffy at applying a scale factor to just about every UI |
| 03:30.22 | Ardonik | It's irritating that script kiddies are still joining channels and pasting that string just for the joy of watching disconnections, but you should do something about it at this point. |
| 03:30.43 | Endler | It is amazing how good fonts look on a high res monitor with xorg set the the proper dpi via making sure xorg has DisplaySize settings |
| 03:30.55 | Endler | It solves the whole issue of crappy fonts too. |
| 03:31.05 | linux_galore | Sho_: yes of course, thats a big advantage of the UI being postscript |
| 03:31.22 | Dhraakellian | hmm |
| 03:31.26 | linux_galore | Sho_: down side being is a ram/cpu sucking method of doing it |
| 03:31.30 | Dhraakellian | pretty sure we have a linksys |
| 03:31.31 | Endler | When pixels are very fine, font's don't need to be of excellent quality to look good. |
| 03:31.40 | Sho_ | linux_galore: Well, it's not quite as clear-cut ... it did take them multiple OS X releases over a multi-year period to gradually roll out that technology and fix the corner cases =) |
| 03:31.46 | Sutoka | Dhraakellian: wrt54g? if so they run that os |
| 03:31.52 | Dhraakellian | ah |
| 03:31.57 | Sho_ | Endler: Proper DisplaySize is usually supposed to be automatically retrieved from the display via EDID |
| 03:32.17 | Sutoka | Dhraakellian: yeah linksys didn't like people flashing their routers and actually doing more with them, so they switched to vxworks on them |
| 03:32.28 | Sho_ | Sutoka: They still sell a Linux version, though |
| 03:32.30 | Sutoka | Sho_: unfortunately not all drivers can do that |
| 03:32.39 | Sutoka | Sho_: yeah they brought one back, but jacked up the price |
| 03:33.09 | Endler | Yes, it should be, but you also have to make sure your distro is not overriding it by hardcoding a -dpi setting into gmd/kdm etc. |
| 03:33.17 | Dhraakellian | heh |
| 03:33.19 | linux_galore | Sutoka: more complicated than that, CISCO didn't like people flashing the Linksys routers with firmware with more features than a CISCO router that costs $2k |
| 03:33.50 | Dhraakellian | the concept of paying for software is just so foreign to me |
| 03:33.52 | Sho_ | Endler: Unfortunately gnome-settings-daemon sets either 96, 120 or 144 dpi depending on thresholds when run, so running a Gnome app in KDE can screw up your DPI for newly run apps mid-session |
| 03:34.08 | Dhraakellian | paying for hardware, sure |
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| 03:35.03 | linux_galore | Ive seen people put a lightweigth DNS server on a cheap linksys router |
| 03:35.18 | Endler | I just configure everything gnome apps need under KDE in a gtkrc-2.0 file so they don't need gnome settings daemon. |
| 03:35.56 | Endler | Or if I did want to use gsd for some reason, I'd lauch a gnome session and change the dpi. |
| 03:36.18 | linux_galore | Endler: yeah having GSD thing running is a pain |
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| 03:37.01 | Endler | The main problem with running gsd is that it does a few more things than just fonts and ui elements. |
| 03:37.11 | Endler | It also takes over the keyboard and such. |
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| 03:37.40 | mikmorg | hi |
| 03:37.49 | linux_galore | someone posted some benchmarks about 4 weeks back on running gnome apps in kde, Most Gnome apps use less ram when they are run under kde |
| 03:38.04 | mikmorg | what is the best way to change the shade of colors in Konsole? |
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| 03:38.33 | Endler | I did hear of one guy stripping out all the fonts/theme stuff out of gsd though and recompiling his one custom version just to use under KDE though, lol. |
| 03:38.57 | Half-Left | linux_galore: you mean the other way around? |
| 03:39.54 | Half-Left | linux_galore: gnome/gtk+ apps take more memory when run in KDE and vise-versa |
| 03:40.13 | linux_galore | Half-Left: nope, they used less ram in kde |
| 03:40.43 | Half-Left | linux_galore: no way, gtk is not in SHR memory |
| 03:41.11 | linux_galore | Half-Left: he raqn applications in gnome then ran the same apps in kde and many gtk apps used less ram in kde |
| 03:41.18 | linux_galore | ran* |
| 03:41.23 | Endler | I've been running KDE with 1024MB RAM for a long time, but recently installed KDE on my notebook and was really surprised how well it runs. |
| 03:41.24 | Half-Left | then thats wrong |
| 03:41.29 | Endler | Totally useable. |
| 03:41.54 | Endler | in 256MB, that is |
| 03:42.10 | Half-Left | linux_galore: If you run a gtk app in gnome you take off the SHR memory from the RES |
| 03:42.24 | linux_galore | Half-Left: he didnt look at gtk, he looked at just the memory used by the application |
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| 03:42.48 | Half-Left | linux_galore: if you do this in KDE you have higher memory because the gtk app is not in SHR |
| 03:43.03 | Endler | What the hell are people talking about when they call KDE "bloated?" |
| 03:43.16 | Endler | Seems quit efficient to me. |
| 03:43.22 | linux_galore | Half-Left: dont look at me it was on a kde website |
| 03:43.29 | Renze | Endler: they call it that out of ignorance of how memory management works in modern operating systems |
| 03:43.54 | Sho_ | Endler: And here's hard data to back up KDE's lead in memory requirements: http://ktown.kde.org/~seli/memory/ |
| 03:43.56 | *** join/#kde mluser-home (n=mluser@ip68-0-79-59.tu.ok.cox.net) |
| 03:43.56 | Half-Left | Endler: extra stuff you dont need |
| 03:44.35 | Endler | Extra stuff at no performance penalty--gee what a problem :)) |
| 03:44.45 | linux_galore | yeah thats the one ( http://ktown.kde.org/~seli/memory/ ) |
| 03:45.13 | Endler | And I must need it because whenever I use the other desktops I've almost looking for features that aren't there that should be. |
| 03:45.39 | Endler | And without even a speed boost to make up for it. |
| 03:45.40 | Half-Left | Endler: people think bloated is extra stuff which you dont need and boggs doiwn the system, like lots of packages you dont use |
| 03:46.19 | Endler | Well, the packages I don't use just sit there and aren't even loaded into memory for the most part. |
| 03:46.38 | Endler | And hard drive space is a total non-issue with Linux and modern hard drives. |
| 03:47.20 | Sho_ | Tell that to the 30 GB disk in my iBook |
| 03:47.21 | Sho_ | ;) |
| 03:47.26 | Half-Left | Endler: well it's like the windows directory, it's bloated |
| 03:47.38 | Half-Left | like Vista :p |
| 03:48.03 | *** join/#kde AssociateX (n=HellBoun@24-117-130-121.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 03:48.15 | Endler | Yeah, well I have a windows partition too, and it seems to have an insatiable thirst for HD space. |
| 03:48.24 | StarScream | Sho_: i'm running linux just fine on my ibook |
| 03:48.30 | Endler | But Linux is a whole different ball game. |
| 03:48.38 | Half-Left | Endler: Vista is like 12Gb :p |
| 03:49.15 | Endler | Sho must be talking about data. |
| 03:49.27 | Sho_ | StarScream: So am I (actually it dual-boots OS X and Kubuntu) |
| 03:49.36 | linux_galore | yeah dual core cpu and 2Gb of ram = Vista base system |
| 03:50.15 | Endler | I have a full featured slax KDE desktop installed on a flash card. |
| 03:50.19 | Half-Left | linux_galore: nah, to be frank Vista runs fast on athlon-xp 2600+ |
| 03:50.33 | StarScream | Sho_: well not sure about OSX as i haven't gotten around to installing it yet but linux its self with all its apps only occupies 1.8G |
| 03:50.38 | Endler | Full Open office, and everything. |
| 03:50.48 | linux_galore | and !!! forget those tinker toy graphics cards if you want those glass effects in Vista |
| 03:51.26 | Sho_ | Half-Left: Speaking of Vista, that new Explorer is quite awful I find |
| 03:51.44 | StarScream | new explorer? |
| 03:51.56 | Half-Left | linux_galore: it's kind of FUD, Aero runs well on my geforce 5900U, 2 years old |
| 03:52.02 | Sho_ | StarScream: The redesigned file manager application |
| 03:52.04 | Endler | I just want XOrg to spec out a abi they can live with and then leave it alone and stop breaking it every release. |
| 03:52.17 | Half-Left | Sho_: Vista is inconsistant to say the least |
| 03:52.23 | HomeRoey | *inconsistent |
| 03:52.24 | StarScream | Endler: why is that |
| 03:52.34 | Endler | The video situation in Linux is bad enough already without that |
| 03:52.43 | HomeRoey | you mean with the binary drivers? |
| 03:52.44 | Half-Left | HomeRoey: typos get through |
| 03:52.49 | HomeRoey | :) |
| 03:52.53 | StarScream | Endler: how does abi effect that ? |
| 03:53.37 | Endler | Because they videocard manufactures have to keep reworking their drivers |
| 03:53.41 | StarScream | Endler: it's only an issue if you have proprietry drivers and even then x comes out with a new version once maybe twice a year...its not that hard to build against |
| 03:53.59 | Endler | and they don't give half a shit about linux to begin with. |
| 03:54.00 | Sho_ | Endler: So ask them to open their drivers and import them into the Xorg repository (as Intel has done) |
| 03:54.04 | StarScream | Endler: and you get more benefits by breaking the Abi and adding in new features |
| 03:54.23 | StarScream | Endler: or do what Sho_ suggests |
| 03:54.38 | Sho_ | Endler: The only relevant video card manufacturer today that doesn't give half a shit about Linux is ATi |
| 03:54.40 | StarScream | Endler: intel don't then have to do any work, xorg guys will do it all for em when they change |
| 03:54.55 | linux_galore | Half-Left: GF5900 is actually faster than about 70% of graphics cards in use today, lets not even look at all the laptops with integrated chipsets on sale right now in the dual core riggs |
| 03:55.08 | Endler | The whole point of a interface it to be static. Think ahead an build in access for future features rather than keep changing them as you implement. |
| 03:55.22 | StarScream | Endler: no its not at all |
| 03:55.23 | Sho_ | Endler: The market leader, Intel, is launching open source Linux drivers in lockstep with new hardware, and nVidia is supporting Linux quite competently |
| 03:55.33 | StarScream | Endler: nothing says interfaces have to be static |
| 03:55.43 | Endler | That's OK in theory, but the open source drivers suck for the most part |
| 03:55.47 | Sho_ | Endler: And regarding the ABI breakage that forced nVidia to update their binary driver, nVidia was actually involved in that change |
| 03:55.47 | Half-Left | linux_galore: integrated have never been good anyway |
| 03:55.56 | StarScream | Endler: intel drivers work fantastically |
| 03:56.17 | StarScream | just they aren't suitable for gaming |
| 03:56.26 | StarScream | due to the cards not being made for that |
| 03:56.37 | linux_galore | Half-Left: Ive noticed some lapatops though have swapped to GF6200M recently |
| 03:56.39 | Endler | You can't even buy intel cards or at least I don't see any for sale--you can't be expected to change motherboard for new video. |
| 03:56.40 | Sho_ | StarScream: The Intel open source drivers for their new line of chips are |
| 03:57.05 | StarScream | Sho_: even better then |
| 03:57.27 | Half-Left | linux_galore: it's mainly the blur that kills performance |
| 03:57.46 | StarScream | Endler: my point is that its not Xorgs responsibility to limit features b/c you don't want to buy compatible open hardware |
| 03:58.03 | StarScream | Endler: if you use proprietry stuff then its your choice to do so |
| 03:58.16 | Sho_ | Endler: That was the first ABI change in a very long time, and the only vendor seriously affected was involved in the change. Meanwhile Windows is throwing out its graphics driver model with every new release as well (XP introduced a new one, so does Vista), so it's similar there |
| 03:59.14 | Endler | There are no products with good open source drivers. Nvidia drivers are good, but not the open source ones, ATI open source drivers suck, and intel is just imbedded video. |
| 03:59.40 | linux_galore | Endler: your forgetting, most PC's sold (even apple) are laptops now and many have integrated chipsets (allot of them are intel on the low end models) |
| 03:59.43 | *** join/#kde XVampireX (n=serge@89.0.170.167.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 03:59.43 | Endler | Well, with 7.1, but they made changes in 7.2 also. |
| 04:00.00 | Sho_ | Endler: You might be surprised that Intel is the market leader in graphics processors ;) |
| 04:00.19 | Sho_ | Endler: Those chips are in most laptops and office PCs sold |
| 04:00.46 | linux_galore | yeah open any office machine this day and age and they have a intel chipset |
| 04:00.49 | Endler | It doesn't matter if you can't go by an Intel card when you want to switch to Linux. |
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| 04:01.17 | Sho_ | Endler: Many in the industry are anticipating that Intel will enter the discrete graphics market (i.e. sell their chips on add-in cards) fairly soon |
| 04:01.18 | Half-Left | Endler: well thats because they dont have the specs :-) |
| 04:01.22 | StarScream | Endler: you can run non 3d apps just fine with an nvidia card and open source drivers |
| 04:01.36 | StarScream | Endler: also the nvidia proprietry drivers work well with 7.1 too |
| 04:01.44 | Sho_ | Endler: Their new line of chips certainly appears to be competitive with the offerings of nVidia and ATi in the same class |
| 04:01.44 | linux_galore | I recently got given a del machine that was in a office and it had a P4 2.6Ghz and everything was intel inside |
| 04:01.46 | StarScream | Endler: i have never had an issue with nvidia |
| 04:02.39 | StarScream | Endler: you can buy pretty much anything but and ATI card it it will work out the box with SLED or something like that |
| 04:02.49 | linux_galore | yeah the new Intel graphics chipsets now have shaders |
| 04:03.09 | Sho_ | linux_galore: So did the old ones, but they performed abysmally |
| 04:03.17 | linux_galore | and piplines etc that are seen on the ati and nvidia stuff |
| 04:03.17 | Endler | What is usable with 7.2? |
| 04:03.35 | Sho_ | Endler: Xorg 7.2 has not yet been released to my knowledge |
| 04:03.47 | StarScream | Endler: 7.2 hasn't been released |
| 04:03.53 | linux_galore | yeah Im on 7.1.1 on edgy |
| 04:03.56 | Endler | It will be in like a month or so, it's release candidate. |
| 04:04.06 | Sho_ | (Release is tentatively planned for end of November/early December) |
| 04:04.08 | Endler | And nobody will be ready for launch. |
| 04:04.12 | StarScream | Endler: nvidia works with 7.1.1 atm |
| 04:04.19 | StarScream | Endler: and said they will support 7.2 |
| 04:04.24 | Endler | Xorg should be working with the vendors ahead of time |
| 04:04.34 | linux_galore | yeah I run Nvidia with 7.1.1, its works fine |
| 04:04.34 | StarScream | Endler: they do |
| 04:04.40 | StarScream | Endler: its up to the vendors when they ship |
| 04:04.46 | Sho_ | Endler: Where were you when I told you multiple times that nVidia was involved in the ABI breakage that happened in 7.1? |
| 04:05.10 | StarScream | Endler: nvidia will support 7.2 at release or shortly after like they did with 7.1 |
| 04:05.20 | Sho_ | Endler: nVidia participates in Xorg development discussion and planning. You're complaining about something they're not complaining about. |
| 04:05.43 | Sho_ | Endler: It's their job to get their release cycles synced with Xorg, not the other way around |
| 04:06.18 | linux_galore | yeah both ATI and Nvidia have Linux guys that are in close contact with the xorg team (some are part of the team) |
| 04:06.19 | StarScream | Endler: what exactly is your issue? is it just that you bought an ATI card and you now want to use Linux with AIGLX ? |
| 04:06.20 | Endler | Well, I am stuck in ATI hell. I was thinking of just switching to Nvidia |
| 04:06.44 | Sho_ | ATi doesn't seem to give a fuck, which is a shame |
| 04:06.46 | StarScream | Endler: i run nvidia at home at it works just fine |
| 04:06.47 | StarScream | never had an issue |
| 04:06.54 | StarScream | i run intel at work |
| 04:06.58 | StarScream | works awesomely out the box there too |
| 04:07.06 | Sho_ | Xorg developers have tried to reach out to ATi, and blog again and again how they're getting no response |
| 04:07.08 | linux_galore | yeah Nvidia do make better Linux drivers |
| 04:07.20 | Endler | The guys on Xorg said that the NVidia open source drivers are a mess though because they have zero specs on them to work with--even less info than ATI cards. |
| 04:08.02 | Half-Left | AMD=ATI |
| 04:08.14 | Endler | I was hoping that might help |
| 04:08.27 | Half-Left | AMD said they will opensource the drivers, I heard :p |
| 04:08.37 | Endler | Seeing as AMD has more of a vested interest in Linux, I think. |
| 04:08.53 | StarScream | Endler: yeh but the nvidia opensource drivers work perfectly for |
| 04:08.54 | StarScream | 2d |
| 04:08.57 | StarScream | its only 3d you need binary drivers for |
| 04:09.05 | linux_galore | Endler: you mean the OO drivers, I was listening to a podcast last year they interviewed the guy who did the Linux port of the binary drivers and he has submitted patches to the nv open source drivers |
| 04:10.00 | StarScream | Endler: its pretty much agreed from everyone that Xorg are doing everything pretty much perfectly these days. |
| 04:10.08 | Endler | So what does he do, just tidy things up and fix a few things but not say why? :) |
| 04:10.11 | StarScream | since becoming xorg |
| 04:10.48 | Sho_ | ATi on open sourcing their drivers, after the AMD takeover news: "'Proprietary, patented optimizations are part of the value we provide to our customers and we have no plans to release these drivers to open source,' the company said in a statement. 'In addition, multimedia elements such as content protection must not, by their very nature, be allowed to go open source.'" |
| 04:11.28 | Endler | I just think they should sit down and break every damn interface they anticipate needing for a long long time all in one release and be done with it rather they changing it as they go. |
| 04:11.30 | StarScream | your problem is that your bought proprietry hardware that doesn't have open specs and doesn't care about Linux or BSD |
| 04:11.31 | StarScream | you can only write to them and complain |
| 04:11.31 | StarScream | and try another vendor |
| 04:11.46 | StarScream | or not use Linux /BSD |
| 04:11.52 | Half-Left | Sho_: yer, thats why I said to that person he heard BS |
| 04:12.40 | Half-Left | StarScream: they dont have to |
| 04:13.08 | Half-Left | Start they dont even have to supply drivers |
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| 04:13.14 | StarScream | Half-Left: huh ? |
| 04:13.20 | Sho_ | Endler: The thing is that for the free drivers, the ABI changes are no problem to begin with, because the drivers are updated as the ABI changes. Kernel driver interfaces change every day too, and everything is just immediately ported. The companies who release binary-only stuff and don't benefit do so by their own choice. |
| 04:13.49 | Half-Left | StarScream: nothing says they have to even supply drivers |
| 04:14.14 | Sho_ | Endler: You can google up Greg K-Hs article on why a binary-stable driver interface for the Linux kernel is a stupid idea (and similar opinions by nearly all kernel developers); his arguments apply largely to Xorg, too |
| 04:14.24 | Half-Left | nvidia/ATI |
| 04:14.25 | StarScream | Half-Left: you sure thats to me ? i didn't say they had to ? |
| 04:14.30 | Endler | Buying hardware with good open source support is good in theory, but there ware no good alternatives. Intel is not an option if you just need to change video and the rest of your system is ok. |
| 04:14.55 | StarScream | Endler: then buy nvidia...so far they haven't messed up |
| 04:14.58 | StarScream | and have good support |
| 04:15.09 | StarScream | albeit proprietry |
| 04:15.16 | Endler | That seems to be the best solution, but not an open source one |
| 04:15.27 | Endler | Since the good drivers are prop |
| 04:16.00 | Half-Left | StarScream: it's not about caring, it's about how can Linux/bsd make us money |
| 04:16.33 | Sho_ | Endler: Well, I'm hoping for Intel to enter the discrete graphics market |
| 04:16.50 | StarScream | Half-Left: well if they don't make money then i assume as a business that they don't care :) |
| 04:17.02 | Endler | Someone needs to just leak the damn specs. :) |
| 04:17.20 | Endler | How do they keep such a tight lid on them anyway? |
| 04:17.20 | StarScream | Half-Left: personally i am sure they do |
| 04:17.22 | StarScream | Endler: no thats un-ethical |
| 04:17.41 | StarScream | Endler: if a developer saw them, they wouldn't be able to write code for Xorg |
| 04:17.47 | Half-Left | StarScream: they make drivers for nvidia because 15%+ of there business customers use Linux in some way |
| 04:18.01 | Half-Left | Linux* |
| 04:18.50 | StarScream | Half-Left: not to mention that the 4000 computers I buy are all nvidia b/c they have linux support...the boss doesn't know thats why i buy them though |
| 04:19.01 | Endler | Well, I can confirm that the open source r300 drivers are shit :) |
| 04:19.29 | StarScream | Half-Left: most don't run linux....yet :) |
| 04:19.38 | Sho_ | Endler: So are nVidia's proprietary drivers, however |
| 04:19.38 | Half-Left | most what? |
| 04:19.40 | Sho_ | err |
| 04:19.43 | Sho_ | ATi's, I mean |
| 04:19.47 | Sho_ | Their binary drivers are horrid |
| 04:20.18 | Half-Left | Sho_: ATI has never been good with drivers full stop |
| 04:20.43 | Sho_ | Half-Left: Yes, even their Windows OpenGL drivers are quite bad |
| 04:20.49 | Half-Left | indeed |
| 04:20.51 | Endler | Well at least fglrx doesn't do random repaints at random frequency and can run googleearth |
| 04:21.09 | *** join/#kde narayana (n=turkish@S010600111124bda3.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 04:21.28 | Half-Left | Sho_: but their hardware is very well made, better than nvidia who tend to over engineer it |
| 04:21.28 | narayana | do i need xcompmgr for kompmgr to work? |
| 04:21.48 | *** part/#kde Anonycat (n=user1@c-68-50-41-221.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 04:21.55 | Renze | narayana: no |
| 04:22.16 | *** join/#kde Schalken (n=Schalken@cor7-ppp3730.bur.dsl.connect.net.au) |
| 04:22.18 | StarScream | Endler: i can run Google earth on nvidia and intel |
| 04:22.33 | Schalken | does kde have a program for inserting special characters? |
| 04:22.37 | Endler | On open source nvidia? |
| 04:23.01 | narayana | i can't seem to get transparencies to work with kde. I followed couple howtos but it seems like kompmgr won't start |
| 04:23.07 | *** join/#kde kdean06 (n=fader681@216.127.159.101) |
| 04:23.27 | Endler | I'm totally open to buying an Intel card if someone actually makes one |
| 04:23.27 | Schalken | i need the round circle character... |
| 04:23.37 | Half-Left | narayana: you need to setup xorg.conf right |
| 04:23.49 | narayana | im pretty sure i did |
| 04:23.55 | Endler | just not open to changing my MB and new mem for new MB and new CPU for new MB |
| 04:23.56 | narayana | enable composite or something like that. |
| 04:24.08 | Half-Left | like what? |
| 04:24.17 | Renze | Schalken: kcharselect |
| 04:24.34 | kdean06 | Does anyone have any advice on getting vmplayer to fit in with KDE better visually? And if this is off topic, could someone direct me to where I could best get some help? |
| 04:24.35 | Schalken | Renze: is that a bash command as well? |
| 04:24.36 | *** join/#kde TheWoozle (n=woozle@user-0c8hrnl.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 04:24.45 | Renze | Schalken: um, what? |
| 04:24.53 | narayana | Option "Composite" "Enable" |
| 04:25.06 | Schalken | Renze: like...can i put kcharselect in the terminal to open it... |
| 04:25.19 | Renze | Schalken: well of course... just like you can with ANY app |
| 04:25.30 | Half-Left | hmm |
| 04:25.31 | Schalken | Renze: well it i dont think i have it then |
| 04:25.53 | Endler | On a practical note, anyone know of any incredible deals on nvidea cards? |
| 04:25.54 | kiaora_2 | I am trying to map the windows key to bring up the menu. I have edited a line in.kde/share/config/kdeglobals, to "Window Operations Menu=default(Alt+F3);Win+". This does not work. What is the correct syntax? |
| 04:25.59 | Schalken | Renze: do you think you could give me the solid round circle characters? :P |
| 04:26.05 | Schalken | character* |
| 04:26.08 | Endler | Something along the lines of a 6600 |
| 04:27.04 | Endler | Will prices be dropping bigtime down the line after NVidia release the 8xxx series next week? |
| 04:27.11 | Renze | Schalken: â— ? |
| 04:27.28 | Schalken | Renze: thats the one, cheers! |
| 04:27.43 | HomeRoey | Endler: I wonder if the 8xxx has dual dvi... becaus eI have a dell 2405fpw (24 inch LCD) |
| 04:27.58 | HomeRoey | I think I'd need dual dvi input in order to sustain a high refresh rate |
| 04:28.41 | Endler | I don't know much about them other than they will probably cost a small fortune. :) |
| 04:28.58 | Endler | And should hopefully drive down the prices of older models. |
| 04:29.29 | Endler | I need an agp card anyway, and doubt they'll even be making one in that series. |
| 04:29.34 | *** join/#kde lnxkde (n=lnxkde@206.248.92.51) |
| 04:29.41 | Sho_ | Endler: As far as bang for the buck goes, the 7600GTs are rather nice, IMO |
| 04:30.10 | Endler | What's the cheapest you can get one for? |
| 04:30.13 | narayana | is there a log for kompmgr that I can look at and maybe figure out why it won't start? |
| 04:30.41 | Sho_ | Endler: I don't think the 8800ers will influence prices of the other cards any time soon. The GX2 will go away quickly, and the 7950 will fade from interest due to the 8800GTS, but otherwise it depends on when nVidia rolls out G80-based midrange cards. |
| 04:30.48 | Endler | I would think the 7xxx series you get a price cut as soon as 8xxx's are released. |
| 04:30.50 | HomeRoey | what is GX2 ?? |
| 04:31.08 | HomeRoey | Sho_: is there anything interesting after the G80 boards? |
| 04:31.13 | HomeRoey | Sho_: like maybe an integrated l2/l3 cache |
| 04:31.32 | HomeRoey | Sho_: damn, and I don't even have a PCIe motherboard. |
| 04:31.40 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: The GX2 was their insane high-end wanking card that has two 7900 GPUs on one PCB |
| 04:31.54 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: As the 8800GTX is faster than the GX2, the GX2 becomes meaningless |
| 04:32.15 | Endler | But will it mean that they'll release cooler revisions of the older board using smaller die tech. |
| 04:32.34 | Endler | Or releasing undercloked units |
| 04:32.36 | XVampireX | Anything fun going on? |
| 04:32.44 | Endler | That are actually more than meets the eye? |
| 04:32.53 | HomeRoey | Sho_: oh is it!!! |
| 04:32.58 | HomeRoey | Sho_: ok, I was wondering about that. |
| 04:33.16 | HomeRoey | Sho_: so can you do sli x 2 or x 4 with the 8800's? |
| 04:33.26 | HomeRoey | that's impressive how far video cards have come in a few years. |
| 04:33.38 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: You can, but I would question the usefulness ;) |
| 04:33.40 | HomeRoey | I bought my GF4 ti4200 in 2001. |
| 04:34.00 | HomeRoey | Sho_: besides, what are you going to do with an 8800? play games? |
| 04:34.04 | Half-Left | HomeRoey: shame devs dont use them as well as they should |
| 04:34.13 | HomeRoey | Half-Left: how so? |
| 04:34.22 | HomeRoey | Half-Left: for what application you mean? |
| 04:34.28 | HomeRoey | Half-Left: *to what end |
| 04:34.39 | Half-Left | HomeRoey: S3TC is a prime example |
| 04:34.48 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: I'm pretty interested in their 128bit full precision support for filtering and blending, and their hardware implementation of OpenEXR. I keep picturing Krita's OpenGL canvas mode being able to take full advantage of such a GPU =). |
| 04:34.49 | Half-Left | or DXTC |
| 04:34.59 | HomeRoey | Half-Left: s3tc? |
| 04:35.06 | Half-Left | (DirectX Texture Compression) |
| 04:35.14 | HomeRoey | Sho_: :) |
| 04:35.26 | HomeRoey | Sho_: what happens to their hardware support if the openexr file format changres |
| 04:35.28 | HomeRoey | *changes |
| 04:35.40 | Half-Left | HomeRoey: remember S3? |
| 04:35.44 | HomeRoey | s3 virge? |
| 04:35.48 | Half-Left | yer |
| 04:35.51 | HomeRoey | ok |
| 04:35.53 | HomeRoey | yeah |
| 04:36.01 | XVampireX | There's nothing interest :( |
| 04:36.08 | Half-Left | well they came up with S3 texture compression |
| 04:36.11 | HomeRoey | (btw I saw a demo of Crysis and that was *amazing*) |
| 04:36.11 | XVampireX | ing |
| 04:36.12 | Endler | Has anyone used wine and replaced all the wine versions of windows files with native ones from a copy of XP? |
| 04:36.17 | HomeRoey | Half-Left: ahhhhh |
| 04:36.32 | Half-Left | then MS brought it and called it directx textures compression |
| 04:36.41 | HomeRoey | Half-Left: does compression outweigh transfer time between cache <-> memory though |
| 04:36.55 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: That's more of a driver/software issue, the hardware is only responsible for implementing the functionality necessary to work with such data comfortably (such as 128bit support throughout) |
| 04:37.11 | StarScream | Endler: what would that achieve ? |
| 04:37.11 | HomeRoey | like, is it less expensive to compress/decompress than it is to transfer the texture from a lower-speed memory to a higher-speed one |
| 04:37.36 | HomeRoey | also, the 8800 boards will come with 768 MB. *768*. Damn. |
| 04:37.38 | Endler | Well, maybe get some programs working :) |
| 04:37.41 | Half-Left | HomeRoey: DXTC compresses texture to a certain ratio so that large textures can be transfered without performance loss |
| 04:37.42 | linux_galore | Endler: the wine dll files dont just contain a copy of the windows stuff they also incorporate some thing so the windows apps and intemperate with the wine daemon |
| 04:37.49 | StarScream | Endler: they aren't the same |
| 04:38.27 | linux_galore | s/and intemperate/ can inter operate/ |
| 04:38.36 | *** part/#kde kiaora_2 (n=kiaora_2@p202-124-120-223.snap.net.nz) |
| 04:38.36 | HomeRoey | I like intemperate. |
| 04:38.39 | HomeRoey | nice word :) |
| 04:38.41 | Endler | It just doesn't seem like they're ever going to get wine working well. |
| 04:39.09 | Endler | They fix hundreds of bugs with each release, but you'd can't even notice it because it is such a drop in the bucket. |
| 04:39.13 | Half-Left | HomeRoey: I did a UT2003 level with 1024x1024 detailed textures without fps loss |
| 04:39.14 | linux_galore | Endler: wine dont forget is just a bunch of hacks, its not an emulator |
| 04:40.01 | Schalken | Renze: now can I get a lowercase e with a / accent on it? |
| 04:40.05 | linux_galore | Endler: I use crossover for this reason, you know up front what works and how well |
| 04:40.07 | Half-Left | HomeRoey: My textures made Farcry look dated :p |
| 04:40.28 | Renze | Schalken: what am I? you're personal clipboard?!? é :) |
| 04:40.30 | Schalken | Renze: im trying to download kcharselect but my pacakge management is being weird |
| 04:40.40 | Renze | s/you're/your/ |
| 04:40.47 | Endler | I though it would make a big difference after Google contributed all those fixes after using it for picasso. |
| 04:40.50 | HomeRoey | Half-Left: jeez! |
| 04:40.54 | *** join/#kde xijiao (n=xijiao@59.77.243.112) |
| 04:41.01 | linux_galore | Endler: also crossover will install the windows apps with all the wine.conf hacks that you have to manually do automatically |
| 04:41.02 | HomeRoey | Half-Left: soyou're heavily into artwork, eh? |
| 04:41.07 | Half-Left | HomeRoey: thats what i'm talking about |
| 04:41.23 | Half-Left | yer |
| 04:41.25 | Schalken | lol |
| 04:41.25 | Endler | How much is Crossover Office? |
| 04:41.34 | linux_galore | Endler: free on BT lol |
| 04:41.48 | HomeRoey | Half-Left: there's an interesting idea coming up with games, and that's the idea of synthetic texture generation. |
| 04:41.59 | HomeRoey | or dynamic texture generation. |
| 04:42.07 | Endler | Ah, OK. :) |
| 04:42.10 | HomeRoey | where you have an algorithm to generate a texture during the game |
| 04:42.16 | HomeRoey | there's a company that provides this |
| 04:42.17 | HomeRoey | er |
| 04:42.19 | HomeRoey | forgot the name |
| 04:42.20 | linux_galore | Endler: you dont need a special password etc |
| 04:42.35 | Half-Left | HomeRoey: like DXTC it will not get used proper I bet :) |
| 04:43.13 | Half-Left | HomeRoey: I actually did the textures in Maya |
| 04:43.14 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: Procedural content generation isn't particularly new, actually |
| 04:43.41 | *** part/#kde kdean06 (n=fader681@216.127.159.101) |
| 04:43.59 | HomeRoey | http://www.touchdownentertainment.com/jupiter.htm |
| 04:44.04 | Endler | Is anyone here using Nvidia's drivers with xorg 7.2? |
| 04:44.13 | HomeRoey | Sho_: yeah! it's been done for ages! |
| 04:44.17 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: It's experiencing a resurgence in popularity right now because the most expensive thing about making games today is art, and producing as much of that procedurally as possible keeps costs down |
| 04:44.24 | HomeRoey | Sho_: thanks for reminding me of the name again btw |
| 04:44.29 | HomeRoey | ah |
| 04:44.45 | HomeRoey | Half-Left: so what Sho mentioned, Procedural Content Generation. |
| 04:44.54 | XVampireX | HomeRoey: Having fun with promoting directx products? |
| 04:44.59 | HomeRoey | Sho_: also, I think that PCG will get more important as game resolution increases. |
| 04:44.59 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: And there's certainly also space problems, i.e. the Xbox 360 uses regular DVD media, generating things at runtime out of a set of parameters is more space efficient than keeping it on disk |
| 04:45.17 | HomeRoey | XVampireX: is it directx? I was just mesmerized by the water effects :) |
| 04:45.22 | HomeRoey | XVampireX: they have videos of it |
| 04:45.23 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: One practical example is SpeedTree, a software that procedurally generates 3d models of vegetation, either pre-baked or at runtime |
| 04:45.30 | HomeRoey | Sho_: YES |
| 04:45.37 | HomeRoey | Sho_: SpeedTree, that's the comapny I was talking about above. |
| 04:45.40 | XVampireX | HomeRoey: It says it on that page |
| 04:45.41 | HomeRoey | thanks |
| 04:45.54 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: It's used in many games that feature outdoor environments. Hand-modelling individual trees is just not cost-efficient. |
| 04:46.03 | HomeRoey | XVampireX: ah |
| 04:46.03 | XVampireX | 3D Rendering |
| 04:46.03 | XVampireX | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:46.10 | HomeRoey | XVampireX: ahh hok |
| 04:46.16 | XVampireX | You can do the same with OpenGL |
| 04:46.52 | HomeRoey | it's nice how games (like far cry, which isthe first one I saw that did it) has real grass now |
| 04:47.16 | HomeRoey | and that where the grass ends and a mountain cliff begins, the grass no longer looks like a carpet |
| 04:47.19 | HomeRoey | you know what I mean? |
| 04:47.22 | XVampireX | HomeRoey: check out water in a game called Sauerbraten |
| 04:47.59 | HomeRoey | in many games, the grass just looks like a carpet whose edge aligns neatly with the edge of the bottom of a cliff or a hill |
| 04:48.04 | HomeRoey | XVampireX: will do, thanks :) |
| 04:48.14 | XVampireX | It's opengl and runs on linux |
| 04:48.22 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: Higher fillrates, geometry instancing, etc. make for nice grass and fur stuff, yeah |
| 04:48.50 | HomeRoey | how long before we'll just be able to render things on-the-fly with radiosity? |
| 04:49.00 | Sho_ | The indie demo scene (of which Sauerbraten is a product, I guess) has pioneered many procedural content generation techniques over the years |
| 04:49.10 | HomeRoey | (speaking as someone who is only a brother of someone doing an imaging phd at stanford) |
| 04:49.31 | Sho_ | oh, I didn't mean Sauerbraten |
| 04:49.41 | HomeRoey | ah |
| 04:49.44 | XVampireX | http://sauerbraten.org/ |
| 04:49.45 | Sho_ | What was that first person shooter demo again that procedurally generated its environment and textures? |
| 04:49.48 | XVampireX | LAST PIC IS AWESOME! |
| 04:49.55 | HomeRoey | XVampireX: aye, but look at the third screenshot from the top |
| 04:50.05 | Half-Left | HomeRoey: not long I bet, HDR already is pretty smooth |
| 04:50.06 | HomeRoey | XVampireX: the grass in the courtyard looks like a carpet |
| 04:50.13 | XVampireX | It does |
| 04:50.16 | Sho_ | ah |
| 04:50.17 | HomeRoey | Half-Left: HDR as in high-dynamic-range?? |
| 04:50.18 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.kkrieger |
| 04:50.23 | Half-Left | yep |
| 04:50.30 | markey | re |
| 04:50.41 | markey | heh Sho_ you still up? |
| 04:50.57 | XVampireX | HomeRoey: the game gets improved over time, soon enough we'll have whole games based on Sauerbraten, one is in development.. MMORPG |
| 04:50.58 | Sho_ | markey: More like again .. ;) |
| 04:51.05 | markey | same here |
| 04:51.05 | XVampireX | or rather, RPG |
| 04:51.11 | HomeRoey | XVampireX: ah :) |
| 04:51.12 | Half-Left | HomeRoey: Some 3d apps couldn't even do HDR not so long ago :p |
| 04:51.24 | HomeRoey | Sho_: nice! /. reported on it some time ago |
| 04:51.26 | Schalken | is it just me or does kcharselect not have all the unicode characters? |
| 04:51.31 | HomeRoey | Sho_: I still don't believe it fits < 100k |
| 04:51.34 | XVampireX | What's all the talk about xorg7.2? |
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| 04:51.59 | Schalken | nope, its just me ;) |
| 04:52.02 | HomeRoey | Half-Left: hmm, about HDR... can the 8800+ do, say, 32 floating point bits per plane color? |
| 04:52.04 | HomeRoey | 32 * 4 = 128 |
| 04:52.09 | HomeRoey | 128-bit color |
| 04:52.18 | HomeRoey | when HDR monitors come down in price, |
| 04:52.27 | HomeRoey | we'll be watching movies like we've never seenthem before. |
| 04:52.29 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: As I said above several times, the G80 implements full precision (128bit) blending and filtering, yeas |
| 04:52.34 | HomeRoey | ah |
| 04:52.42 | Half-Left | HomeRoey: only need for 24bit I heard, you need that to do HDR anyway |
| 04:52.43 | HomeRoey | Sho_: what does it use for tone mapping |
| 04:52.56 | HomeRoey | Sho_: does it do tone-mapping in hardware? can you program that tone mapper unit? |
| 04:53.10 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: The tone mapping approach is really provided by the software :) |
| 04:53.45 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: You can do tone mapping as fragement program on the GPU, but the algorithm is your's to code |
| 04:54.06 | Half-Left | HomeRoey: I may get the precision from pixel shading and HDR mixed up :p |
| 04:54.57 | HomeRoey | Half-Left: ah hmm |
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| 04:55.28 | linux_galore | Schalken: depends on the font |
| 04:55.29 | HomeRoey | Half-Left: well you need to do tone-mapping because you're going from 128-bit floating point internal representation (in the graphics card) to 24-bit integer on the monitor |
| 04:55.34 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: I.e. Valve's Source engine does a tone mapping pass at the end, and adjusts the tone mapping dynamically to simulate effects like the human eye reacting to changes in lighting conditions delayed |
| 04:55.45 | HomeRoey | oh, I see. |
| 04:55.51 | HomeRoey | Sho_: neat. |
| 04:55.53 | Half-Left | HomeRoey: I dont know about that part |
| 04:55.56 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: So if you set out into bright light, it takes a moment for your virtual eyes to adjust |
| 04:56.01 | Schalken | linux_galore: yes i discorvered the "Table" scroller |
| 04:56.01 | HomeRoey | Half-Left: wp:tone mapping |
| 04:56.11 | HomeRoey | Half-Left: there's TONS of approaches to it |
| 04:56.18 | HomeRoey | Sho_: yeah I saw that in a video :) |
| 04:56.27 | HomeRoey | Sho_: I can't wait for real HDR monitors! |
| 04:56.30 | StarScream | Endler: xorg 7.2 is not yet released which we have already said...so no one will as 7.2 doesn't exist |
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| 04:56.48 | StarScream | Endler: the closest you will get is what is in CVS / SVN |
| 04:57.00 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: Well, Samsung has recently announced a LCD that supports the AdobeRGB color space at least ;) |
| 04:57.33 | HomeRoey | hm |
| 04:57.39 | HomeRoey | what does that do? |
| 04:57.43 | HomeRoey | (adobergb) |
| 04:58.02 | HomeRoey | btw, Eike |
| 04:58.07 | HomeRoey | you're a pleasure to talk with |
| 04:58.12 | HomeRoey | thanks for being so patient |
| 04:58.15 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: It covers a little more of the full CIE gamut than sRGB, mostly in the cyans/greens |
| 04:58.19 | HomeRoey | ah |
| 04:59.29 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: Here's a CIE chromaticity diagram comparing sRGB and AdobeRGB: http://regex.info/i/cs/chromaticity.jpg |
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| 04:59.51 | HomeRoey | ah, thanks |
| 04:59.54 | HomeRoey | I'll check it out now |
| 05:00.04 | HomeRoey | though it's sorta pointless on a standard RGB monitor isn't it :) |
| 05:00.06 | HomeRoey | Sho_: also, |
| 05:00.24 | HomeRoey | Sho_: there ar ethings like water reflection that I wonder how developers tackle these days. |
| 05:00.45 | HomeRoey | I wonder if the water really reflects the environment the way a raytracer would |
| 05:00.51 | HomeRoey | (and dynamically so) |
| 05:00.52 | *** part/#kde Schalken (n=Schalken@cor7-ppp3730.bur.dsl.connect.net.au) |
| 05:01.02 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: Well the diagram is an approximation/projection ... |
| 05:01.23 | HomeRoey | oh, I see what you meant. |
| 05:01.43 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: No, they don't, it's not raytracing |
| 05:01.49 | HomeRoey | right. |
| 05:01.52 | HomeRoey | heh |
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| 05:02.10 | HomeRoey | so that'll always be a tell-tale reminder that there's still work to be done |
| 05:02.42 | HomeRoey | Sho_: so with video cards as powerful as they are, the question's been brought up of why we don't simply raytrace in real-time |
| 05:02.46 | HomeRoey | and there are engines which do that |
| 05:02.53 | HomeRoey | but they're not viable for some reason |
| 05:03.00 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: There are some people predicting that raytracing will make a comeback eventually, but the current rendering model is pretty entrenched |
| 05:03.05 | HomeRoey | ok |
| 05:05.06 | Sho_ | HomeRoey: Here's a recent article on raytracing vs. rasterization that was discussed somewhat widely: http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2006/08/the_coming_comb.html#more |
| 05:05.12 | HomeRoey | ok |
| 05:05.20 | HomeRoey | ah, so that's the name for the non-raytracing method. |
| 05:05.22 | HomeRoey | rasterization |
| 05:05.29 | Sho_ | brb, looking for something to eat |
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| 05:08.53 | HomeRoey | Sho_: er, http://roey.freeshell.org/mystuff/kde/konq/20061106-konqueror-overlayed-box.png |
| 05:09.10 | *** join/#kde antoniac (n=peter@isa246.naist.jp) |
| 05:11.31 | HomeRoey | Sho_: also, http://roey.freeshell.org/mystuff/kde/konq/20061107-overlayed-highlighted-text-and-blinking-white-block-on-right.png |
| 05:12.28 | Half-Left | sauerbraten is pretty cool |
| 05:12.54 | HomeRoey | heh |
| 05:12.57 | HomeRoey | yeah |
| 05:13.01 | HomeRoey | alright, I'm going to sleep |
| 05:13.04 | HomeRoey | good night, guys:) |
| 05:13.09 | Half-Left | :) |
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| 05:16.10 | Endler | Well, unfortunately, I'm running Xorg 7.2 release candidate, because Frugalware just can't resisted alway jumping on the lastest xorg release just to be at the lastest even when there are only pitfalls and no advantages to such early adoption. I could bail on the distro, but everything else about it is most excellent. This one eccentricity, however, is most inexplicable. |
| 05:17.05 | XVampireX | Hey |
| 05:17.16 | XVampireX | Anything for KDE like... uhm |
| 05:17.25 | XVampireX | Deskbar applet in gnome ? |
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| 05:20.12 | Half-Left | XVampireX: no, KDE copies, i'm sure it will appear on kde-apps.org |
| 05:20.23 | XVampireX | hehe |
| 05:20.36 | XVampireX | Deskbar is awesome, really. |
| 05:20.56 | Half-Left | it's like Finder in OS X |
| 05:22.13 | *** join/#kde swede_ (n=swede@71-89-21-242.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) |
| 05:22.23 | Half-Left | KDE really needs to do something about searching |
| 05:23.03 | Sho_ | XVampireX: There's a KDE Beagle frontend called Kerry that installs a Kicker applet I believe, and KDEs own desktop search technology Strigi has one too, I believe (or at least there is one for it) |
| 05:23.32 | XVampireX | Beagle is a memory hog :P |
| 05:23.41 | Sho_ | XVampireX: Deskbar uses Beagle ... |
| 05:23.52 | XVampireX | As an option |
| 05:24.35 | Half-Left | cough* mono cough" |
| 05:25.08 | Sho_ | Half-Left: ? |
| 05:25.16 | XVampireX | What should i use, kerry or strigi? |
| 05:25.26 | Renze | mononucleosis? |
| 05:26.05 | Sho_ | XVampireX: Strigi is really targeted at being a platform technology for KDE4, so the end-user experience at this time is probably not what you're looking for |
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| 05:26.17 | XVampireX | Ah |
| 05:26.26 | XVampireX | so you say go with kerry beagle? |
| 05:26.29 | Endler | What does the standard KDE find files/folders use. It maxes out the cpu and brings the computer to a standstill, where as using find from a shell uses very few resources so I always to that. |
| 05:26.32 | Sho_ | Although the strigiapplet is KDE3 |
| 05:26.53 | Renze | Endler: it uses "find" |
| 05:26.54 | XVampireX | And what's this other Semantic Desktop project for KDE? |
| 05:27.07 | Renze | Endler: find searches the filesystem, there is no database |
| 05:27.10 | Sho_ | Strigi is certainly faster and lighter than Beagle. Give it a try, I guess :) |
| 05:27.32 | Sho_ | Renze: It can use the slocate db tho' |
| 05:27.35 | Endler | Hmmm. Does it use a different nice from KDE or something? |
| 05:27.41 | Renze | Sho_: yes, but not for content |
| 05:27.54 | Renze | Endler: seems about the same to me |
| 05:28.18 | Half-Left | Sho_: Nice i'll try that |
| 05:28.42 | _knoppix | Sho_: Hey |
| 05:28.57 | _knoppix | Sho_: smartctl finished |
| 05:28.57 | Half-Left | gah, cmake :/ |
| 05:29.06 | _knoppix | Can I DCC you the output? |
| 05:29.09 | Sho_ | _knoppix: sure |
| 05:29.25 | Sho_ | CMake is nice. :) |
| 05:29.37 | Half-Left | how do you compile with it? |
| 05:29.38 | XVampireX | Sho_: http://www.semanticdesktop.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome |
| 05:29.41 | XVampireX | What's this? |
| 05:29.45 | Half-Left | just install cmake? |
| 05:29.46 | XVampireX | cmake > * |
| 05:30.00 | XVampireX | cmake programs showed status of compilation and everything was so much neater and with colour |
| 05:30.02 | _knoppix | SCons :) |
| 05:30.20 | _knoppix | Sho_: Accept please... |
| 05:30.39 | Sho_ | XVampireX: It's a semantic desktop research project that KDE is cooperating with atm |
| 05:30.45 | Sho_ | _knoppix: Not getting any request |
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| 05:30.50 | _knoppix | Crap. |
| 05:30.57 | Sho_ | _knoppix: You're not identified I guess |
| 05:31.01 | XVampireX | Is this related to stuff like tags in the desktop? |
| 05:31.07 | _knoppix | Oh, no, I'm not |
| 05:31.08 | XVampireX | errr |
| 05:31.14 | Sho_ | XVampireX: Yes |
| 05:31.26 | XVampireX | Oh, so KDE4 will have it? |
| 05:31.41 | Sho_ | XVampireX: Unknown |
| 05:31.46 | XVampireX | too much revolutionary stuff :-/ |
| 05:32.16 | XVampireX | It would be great for KDE4 or maybe 4.5 |
| 05:32.18 | Endler | Speaking of searching for random info, What's the closest thing to InfoSelect for Linux? |
| 05:32.39 | Half-Left | Sho_: how do I compile cmake stuff? |
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| 05:32.46 | Renze | wtf is infoselect? |
| 05:32.58 | xXTheBoxXx | I've looked around and I think I'm just being lazy, but anybody ever have a problem with the kmail toolbar and spamfilter buttons? |
| 05:33.04 | Sho_ | Endler: Kontact? |
| 05:33.04 | Endler | A random information manager. |
| 05:33.07 | _knoppix | Sho_: http://pastebin.ca/241449 |
| 05:33.12 | Sho_ | Endler: Basket perhaps |
| 05:33.32 | Endler | I've just been throwing random info into knotes, which are searchable. |
| 05:33.49 | Endler | and that's a component of Kontact, I guess. |
| 05:33.54 | Renze | basket is great for throwing random stuff into |
| 05:34.03 | xXTheBoxXx | I think an upgrade or rather my planned constant upgrades will be the solution, but a rough hack would makeme happy |
| 05:34.07 | Sho_ | Half-Left: cmake; make; make install |
| 05:34.40 | _knoppix | Sho_: Could you please tell me whether smartmontools was useful or not? |
| 05:34.49 | Endler | basket? I'll have to check that out. |
| 05:35.33 | XVampireX | What's the best dictionary program for KDE? |
| 05:35.48 | Sho_ | _knoppix: Looks like the disk is broken, yeah |
| 05:36.01 | _knoppix | Shit. |
| 05:36.05 | Sho_ | _knoppix: If it can't even get through a SMART self-test without read failures ... |
| 05:36.15 | _knoppix | :( |
| 05:36.29 | _knoppix | So what now? |
| 05:36.29 | Half-Left | Sho_: cmake . |
| 05:36.41 | Endler | Knotes works pretty well for that actually, but I'm not sure how well it would scale with a ton of notes. |
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| 05:36.49 | Sho_ | _knoppix: Buy a new disk ;) |
| 05:36.58 | Sho_ | Endler: Then Basket is for you, I think |
| 05:37.38 | Sho_ | Endler: It's a "throw random shit in it and organize it somehow" app, where "random shit" can be (rich) text, images, links, applications, colors ... |
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| 05:38.19 | Endler | You have a link. Is it on sorceforge or freshmeat? |
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| 05:38.47 | xXTheBoxXx | oh, yeah version KDE 3.4.3-r1, gentoo |
| 05:38.53 | Renze | http://basket.kde.org/ |
| 05:38.57 | Sho_ | Endler: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=10020 |
| 05:39.13 | _knoppix | Sho_: Do you think there's any chance I can get any data off it? |
| 05:39.18 | Sho_ | Endler: You might want to bookmark www.kde-apps.org and www.kde-look.org |
| 05:39.42 | Sho_ | _knoppix: If there is, it escapes my knowledge |
| 05:39.54 | _knoppix | Damn. |
| 05:39.56 | Endler | Thanks. Yeah, I've been there before, but it's kind of slipped my mind recently. |
| 05:39.59 | _knoppix | Well, thanks anyway |
| 05:40.36 | *** join/#kde xijiao_ (n=xijiao@59.77.243.112) |
| 05:41.37 | Endler | Basket looks like EXACTLY what I was looking for :)) |
| 05:41.56 | *** join/#kde shadok_ (n=shad@unaffiliated/shadok) |
| 05:43.33 | Sho_ | Endler: And chances are it probably looks nicer than InfoSelect ;) |
| 05:45.21 | Endler | Probably. They are charging through the roof for InfoSelect now too. |
| 05:45.56 | Sho_ | $249.95 seems somewhat much |
| 05:46.02 | Renze | ouch! |
| 05:46.18 | Endler | God, I love Linux :D |
| 05:46.32 | XVampireX | Why? :P |
| 05:46.38 | Sho_ | http://kde-apps.org/content/pre1/10020-1.png vs. http://www.miclog.com/is/2007/images/main_screen.gif |
| 05:46.50 | Sho_ | One costs $0, the other $250 |
| 05:46.52 | Sho_ | Tough choice. |
| 05:47.01 | XVampireX | haha |
| 05:47.20 | Renze | my word, that is ugly |
| 05:47.23 | XVampireX | You meane asy |
| 05:47.28 | Renze | definitely not worth $250 |
| 05:47.29 | XVampireX | mean easy^ |
| 05:47.38 | Endler | Yeah, that's a tough choice. :) |
| 05:47.39 | XVampireX | It's windows, what do you expect? |
| 05:47.59 | Endler | Basket does look a lot prettier. |
| 05:48.06 | Renze | Windows users really will eat whatever crap is put in front of them, won't they? ;) |
| 05:48.17 | XVampireX | Yes |
| 05:48.29 | Endler | Well, InfoSelect did pioneer the category. |
| 05:48.36 | Endler | They were the first way back in DOS days |
| 05:48.49 | Endler | It started as Tornado, if anyone remembers that. |
| 05:48.56 | Endler | It was a memory res prog. |
| 05:49.18 | xXTheBoxXx | anybody hear my issue/question and know a quick fix or am I just going to have to wait for the upgrade I'm making soon |
| 05:49.20 | Sho_ | (god, the ugly: http://www.miclog.com/is/8/images/overview.gif) |
| 05:49.23 | Half-Left | later |
| 05:49.34 | Sho_ | xXTheBoxXx: What was the question again? |
| 05:49.47 | Renze | xXTheBoxXx: we have no idea what "problem" you are talking about |
| 05:50.32 | xXTheBoxXx | old kmail KDE 3.4.3-r1. gentoo and I lostmy spamfilter toolbar buttons anybody know a quick fix for it? |
| 05:50.51 | xXTheBoxXx | I actually deleted them a while ago |
| 05:51.15 | Endler | Yeah, they never did quite get the asthetics thing down after moving into from DOS to Windows. Guess they're still getting the hang of those new fangled gui thingies. :) |
| 05:51.51 | Sho_ | Visuals aren't everything of course, but InfoSelect does offend my sense of aesthetics ;) |
| 05:52.30 | Renze | xXTheBoxXx: you could remove the filters and run the spam filter wizard thingy again |
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| 05:53.04 | xXTheBoxXx | tried it and removing the kmailrc afterbacking it up |
| 05:53.34 | Renze | xXTheBoxXx: sorry, don't know of a fix... never been silly enough to delete the icons from the toolbar. ;) |
| 05:54.24 | xXTheBoxXx | it says not to remove the button and I can't find anything ponting to the buttons in configs or anywhere else for the matter, I even remerged it at some point/rebuilt it |
| 05:54.38 | xXTheBoxXx | arg! |
| 05:54.49 | xXTheBoxXx | I guess I'm silly then |
| 05:54.53 | Endler | Were there a lot of changes from Basket .5 to .6. I installed .5 from my repo. I'm sure they'll bump it right away if I ask though. |
| 05:55.00 | Sho_ | xXTheBoxXx: It's not in the "Configure Toolbars" dialog? |
| 05:55.15 | Sho_ | Endler: The new one is basically a full rewrite, I think |
| 05:55.18 | xXTheBoxXx | no you can add them there and they don't reappear |
| 05:55.21 | Renze | xXTheBoxXx: the easiest solution is to remove the filters that were set up by the wizard and run the wizard again |
| 05:55.26 | Sho_ | xXTheBoxXx: hmm |
| 05:55.59 | xXTheBoxXx | I think I should file a bug though if I have to upgrade to reproduce it I'm not sure I'm going to do it |
| 05:56.20 | xXTheBoxXx | trying the remove filters thing again real quick |
| 05:56.50 | Sho_ | xXTheBoxXx: Filing a bug against 3.4 probably wouldn't be very useful, though |
| 05:57.05 | Celeste | anyone here from the US ? |
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| 05:57.09 | XVampireX | basket rules :D |
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| 05:58.02 | Celeste | what is the largest adress info you can think of? I actually have 1) First Adress Line 1) Second Adress Line 3) ZIP Code 4) City 5) State 6) Country |
| 05:58.05 | xXTheBoxXx | no luck, but thanks so far |
| 05:58.08 | Celeste | did I forget a field? |
| 05:58.53 | linux_galore | Celeste: UK has some pretty weird adresses |
| 05:58.55 | xXTheBoxXx | thanks <Sho_>, others |
| 05:59.03 | Celeste | linux_galore, example? |
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| 05:59.41 | linux_galore | Celeste: Im not at home so i cant give you some of the ones I have for my relatives |
| 05:59.53 | linux_galore | Celeste: they have two zip codes |
| 06:00.03 | xXTheBoxXx | soon to upgrade to stable for gentoo - KDE 3.5.2-r2 |
| 06:00.49 | linux_galore | Celeste: you have one for the post office then thats broke up into zones |
| 06:01.56 | linux_galore | Sho_: weird Ubuntu dapper has 3.5 in stable |
| 06:01.56 | Dhraakellian | North America, western hemisphere, Earth, 3 Sol System, western spiral arm, Milky Way Galaxy, the universe |
| 06:02.05 | xXTheBoxXx | hmm, or I could pull in the unstable 3.5.5-r1 :) |
| 06:02.20 | Renze | Dhraakellian: we're neighbours! |
| 06:02.45 | linux_galore | yep my dapper machine has 3.5.5 |
| 06:02.50 | Dhraakellian | Renze: how is it over at 4 Sol System? |
| 06:02.55 | Celeste | linux_galore, so how many fields would I need for a UK address? |
| 06:03.21 | Renze | Dhraakellian: no, I'm eastern hemisphere ;) |
| 06:03.25 | XVampireX | By the way, strigi is a bad name |
| 06:03.35 | xXTheBoxXx | yeah, other distros seem to be a little less paranoid about marking stable |
| 06:03.52 | Renze | want paranoid? try debian :D |
| 06:04.14 | xXTheBoxXx | totally 2.4 kernel, yeah... |
| 06:04.38 | linux_galore | Celeste: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_code |
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| 06:06.12 | xXTheBoxXx | I have another random question just to see, because I did a little searching and couldn't find though it's not really KDE at all |
| 06:06.39 | xXTheBoxXx | anybody know how to make cron write a message to the first tty even if it's not logged in? |
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| 06:07.55 | xXTheBoxXx | I get permission denied as root when I: echo "test" | /dev/tty1 |
| 06:08.31 | xXTheBoxXx | maybe I'll try the bash channel if nobody knows right off |
| 06:09.12 | xXTheBoxXx | duh |
| 06:09.38 | xXTheBoxXx | echo "test" > /dev/tty1 |
| 06:10.13 | linux_galore | xXTheBoxXx: you also get permission denied not just because of permissions but there isnt any device there |
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| 06:11.18 | linux_galore | or the device is refusing the data |
| 06:11.50 | xXTheBoxXx | I think it was the pipe though I'm not seeing it using the > |
| 06:11.57 | Renze | or the device is locked by another process |
| 06:12.30 | linux_galore | or the driver is saying bugger off |
| 06:13.28 | xXTheBoxXx | yeah, I'm trying to set up a wall type message broadcast to remind me of the auto sync stuff I'm setting up before it does it |
| 06:14.13 | xXTheBoxXx | just to any term on the screen regardless of if it's logged in to |
| 06:15.18 | linux_galore | Im off |
| 06:15.39 | Renze | xXTheBoxXx: is the "wall" command not what you want? |
| 06:15.41 | xXTheBoxXx | thanks though, works when I do it manually, I'm off to another channel' |
| 06:17.00 | Sho_ | aseigo: Ah, Peter commited your patch ... time for a checkout =) |
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| 06:20.59 | xXTheBoxXx | <Renze> I want it to echo the message when the terminal is not logged into |
| 06:21.32 | Renze | sorry... guess I just can't see the point ;) |
| 06:22.25 | xXTheBoxXx | it's a visual warning on a server terminal screen before a bunch of stuff starts firing when I'm late night gaming |
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| 06:25.57 | xXTheBoxXx | <Renze> thanks though |
| 06:26.06 | xXTheBoxXx | have a good one |
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| 06:27.01 | Endler | Ever notice how many use these channels in read-only mode :) Only about 5% of the people logged in ever say anything. |
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| 06:28.02 | XVampireX | Sho_: I'm surprised at Beagle/Kerry, seems to work extremely well, even while running azureus, all on 256mbram ;) |
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| 06:32.55 | antiNeo | i'm having a problem with kde printing. kde apps won't print while I'm using fluxbox, but they will print when I'm using kde. what's causing this? is there a service I need to start to get it to work? |
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| 06:39.28 | ikrabbe | I seem to be blind today: I cannot find the netscape plugin settings as documented, for the konqueror ? Any hints appreciated |
| 06:40.00 | Sho_ | ikrabbe: Settings -> Configure Konqueror -> Plugins |
| 06:40.54 | Renze | ikrabbe: your distro may have a separate package for that |
| 06:41.45 | ikrabbe | Hmm seems that I missed to install that package (gentoo, kde split) since I don't have that plugins in configure konqueror. |
| 06:42.02 | ikrabbe | Do you remember the name of that package ? |
| 06:42.43 | Sho_ | ikrabbe: "nsplugins" |
| 06:42.52 | ikrabbe | ah, cool |
| 06:43.01 | Sho_ | (what an apt name ;) |
| 06:43.05 | XVampireX | Little (irrelevant?) question: If I close beagle now, will it still keep what it indexed for later use? |
| 06:43.20 | antiNeo | XVampireX: indeed |
| 06:43.29 | XVampireX | Alright, cool :) |
| 06:43.37 | antiNeo | XVampireX: but, i'm guessing that beagle might need to update it next time you run |
| 06:43.44 | XVampireX | Yup |
| 06:43.52 | XVampireX | But good enough |
| 06:44.03 | antiNeo | i've never used beagle, so i wouldn't know ;-P |
| 06:44.09 | antiNeo | i think beagle has a daemon or something... |
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| 06:44.57 | XVampireX | It IS a daemon |
| 06:45.07 | XVampireX | there are frontends to it |
| 06:45.08 | antiNeo | ahh, I guessed correctly |
| 06:45.17 | antiNeo | yeah, that's why it works with gnome and kde... |
| 06:45.21 | XVampireX | :P |
| 06:45.37 | XVampireX | But using kubuntu I still had to install alot of gnome libraries |
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| 06:46.02 | antiNeo | yeah. beagle uses mono and c#, so I don't think i'll ever touch it :-S |
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| 06:46.06 | antiNeo | slocate is good enough for me |
| 06:46.30 | XVampireX | Well |
| 06:46.38 | XVampireX | mono should start migrating to kde too |
| 06:46.53 | XVampireX | so far it does seem like mono based apps are for gnome/gtk mostly |
| 06:47.06 | antiNeo | yes, but mono still seems like a hack. why the hell do we _need_ to use something based of .net?! |
| 06:47.40 | XVampireX | Some would say that it's the next generation of language platform |
| 06:48.00 | antiNeo | that would be the day |
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| 06:48.31 | MinceR | i wouldn't say we _need_ to |
| 06:48.38 | MinceR | but it's nice to have the option |
| 06:48.48 | XVampireX | yup |
| 06:48.54 | XVampireX | Besides |
| 06:48.56 | MinceR | after all, we might (however unlikely) be able to run some windoze apps on it |
| 06:49.04 | XVampireX | Kross is gonna be the new platform soon enough ;) |
| 06:49.12 | XVampireX | I hope it works out, kross, that is |
| 06:49.13 | antiNeo | i think it's just for lazy programmers wanting to use high level classes |
| 06:49.34 | antiNeo | .net, that is |
| 06:49.43 | antiNeo | idk what kross is :-S |
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| 06:50.21 | kb9ylw | How do I tell what version of KDE I have installed? |
| 06:50.22 | XVampireX | Framework for scripting in Koffice, for now, I hear they'll expand it to KDE |
| 06:50.41 | XVampireX | kb9ylw: through kde programs: Help -> About KDE |
| 06:50.45 | antiNeo | kb9ylw: go to help >> about kde |
| 06:51.33 | XVampireX | By the way, is it just me, or KHTML tries to download the page and then load it instantly? |
| 06:52.12 | antiNeo | yes, khtml does that differently than ff. it tries to display it the instant it gets enough of the page to display |
| 06:52.57 | antiNeo | so some say it's bloated because that tends to use quite a bit of cpu, since it has to redraw it a few more times |
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| 06:53.21 | XVampireX | antiNeo: http://kross.dipe.org/ |
| 06:53.45 | XVampireX | It's a platform that allows scripting in koffice with any scripting language |
| 06:53.55 | Sho_ | antiNeo: Pretty much _any_ HTML engine does that |
| 06:53.59 | antiNeo | it says "Python and Ruby" |
| 06:54.05 | XVampireX | Yeah |
| 06:54.07 | XVampireX | sorry |
| 06:54.14 | antiNeo | Sho_: yeah, but apparently konqi does it different |
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| 06:54.36 | XVampireX | Sho_: I noticed khtml tries to render the page completely as soon as it downloaded it, or how does it work? |
| 06:54.36 | antiNeo | btw, i'm not bashing konqueror. I use it 24/7 ;-P |
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| 06:55.32 | antiNeo | XVampireX: I don't see how anything revolutionary could come out of a scripting framework for koffice ;-P |
| 06:55.46 | antiNeo | but... still looks neat |
| 06:55.53 | XVampireX | antiNeo: Just so you know, it seems konqueror devs are going to split it up in 2 programs, web browser and file manager. I think it's for the better, because that way, the web browser can concentrate on the web browsing experience while the file manager can concentrate on the file management experience. |
| 06:56.06 | Sho_ | XVampireX: All of the browsers try to strike a balance as far as how much they retrieve (or for how long they download) before the first rendering happens. If it's too early, you have to reflow more often, if it's too late, the users perceives the browser as being slow. It's a balancing act. |
| 06:56.16 | kb9ylw | 3.4.2 apparently |
| 06:56.17 | XVampireX | antiNeo: It's mostly for Krita, think something like the script-fu in gimp |
| 06:56.27 | antiNeo | XVampireX: that would blow. the only reason I use konqueror is I can put my file manager tabs in with my web ones |
| 06:56.50 | XVampireX | Always a good thing :) |
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| 06:57.24 | XVampireX | Scripts that interface with dbus/dcop and for example sending amarok/controlling amarok from konversation or other stuff :P |
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| 06:57.42 | antiNeo | XVampireX: besides, it doesn't really matter as long as they use kparts. they could put every kde app in one for all I care and it wouldn't slow down development |
| 06:58.05 | Sho_ | antiNeo: "Scripting framework" undersells it somewhat, essentially Kross allows to make up applications written in several languages with the different languages interacting seemlessly |
| 06:58.12 | kb9ylw | What's the current version of KDE? |
| 06:58.17 | Sho_ | kb9ylw: 3.5.5 |
| 06:58.27 | antiNeo | kb9ylw: current stable version... |
| 06:58.35 | XVampireX | antiNeo: many complained (Including me) about the bloat (You could call it a feature if you want everything in konqueror) of Konqueror |
| 06:58.36 | kb9ylw | Is that very different from 3.4.2? |
| 06:58.56 | antiNeo | kb9ylw: yeah, a bit different. the upgrade to 3.5 isn't hard, though |
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| 06:59.14 | Sho_ | kb9ylw: Well, there are tens of thousands of changes, from major features to minor bugfixes, and certainly a number of immediately apparent visual changes, but, you know, it's still a KDE 3 |
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| 06:59.32 | kb9ylw | ok |
| 06:59.34 | kb9ylw | thanks |
| 06:59.57 | Sho_ | kb9ylw: It's certainly better across the board than 3.4 ;) |
| 07:00.00 | antiNeo | XVampireX: jesus, just install gnome and you can be rid of your "bloat". just don't come crying to me when you realise all your apps are based on scripting languages >:-( |
| 07:00.38 | XVampireX | antiNeo: No need to become agressive now... |
| 07:00.49 | Sho_ | XVampireX: Konqueror will be significantly cleaned up for KDE 4 |
| 07:01.05 | XVampireX | Sho_: I heard that too |
| 07:01.08 | kb9ylw | It's dog slow on this machine |
| 07:01.13 | kb9ylw | I think I need blackbox |
| 07:01.19 | XVampireX | kb9ylw: what machine? |
| 07:01.26 | XVampireX | I'm on 1.5ghz and 256mbram |
| 07:01.29 | antiNeo | i'm seriously sick of the gnome attitude. sure, we could improve the interface and make it more intuitive. but if it involves removing features, it's not worth it |
| 07:01.30 | XVampireX | and it works just fine |
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| 07:01.58 | XVampireX | antiNeo: Not removing features, just not putting in too many features |
| 07:02.08 | antiNeo | kb9ylw: fluxbox is better than blackbox... it has tabs :-D |
| 07:02.43 | antiNeo | XVampireX: like what? what features don't I use in konqueror? |
| 07:03.00 | *** mode/#kde [+o canllaith] by ChanServ |
| 07:03.04 | antiNeo | imo, konqueror is at a sweet spot in features |
| 07:03.09 | XVampireX | antiNeo: I don't know :P |
| 07:03.32 | XVampireX | antiNeo: Exactly, IMO |
| 07:03.45 | XVampireX | not IEO |
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| 07:03.49 | antiNeo | but... some of the menus are confusing, i admit that |
| 07:03.55 | antiNeo | that should be fixed |
| 07:04.00 | XVampireX | Menus not confusing |
| 07:04.23 | Sho_ | Konqueror in KDE 3 is certainly a somewhat messy experience, and that's going to be dealt with. |
| 07:04.23 | XVampireX | What I'm trying to get across is that I want a web browser that does web browsing and does it well |
| 07:04.30 | XVampireX | not a mix of many MANY different things |
| 07:04.32 | XVampireX | For example |
| 07:04.35 | antiNeo | like the fact that there's "configure shortcuts" "configure extensions" "configure konqueror" and "configure spell checking", all in one menu |
| 07:04.43 | XVampireX | Check this one out: |
| 07:04.54 | Sho_ | XVampireX: There will be a stronger differenciation between a file manager and a browser application in KDE 4. |
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| 07:05.20 | antiNeo | I use the drag and drop of konqueror all the time. that's why a combo of file manager and web browser is important to me |
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| 07:05.56 | XVampireX | If I open up an image from a webpage, it would popup a download thingy, and when it's done downloading the image it would load it up in something like gwenview |
| 07:05.59 | antiNeo | if they split konqueror into two apps, and don't give the option of joining them, I'll fork konqueror myself |
| 07:06.14 | XVampireX | Now if I open the same thing with something like firefox, it would open it up in firefox |
| 07:06.36 | antiNeo | XVampireX: if that was me, i would drag and drop the image to a tab in konqueror |
| 07:06.46 | canllaith | XVampireX: not in my setup. That's all configurable. |
| 07:06.49 | *** part/#kde unsrat1109 (n=anto@125.162.205.28) |
| 07:06.49 | antiNeo | XVampireX: and that's a lie. konqueror doesn't open a dl dialog for images |
| 07:06.49 | XVampireX | antiNeo: Well, maybe I wasn't quite clean |
| 07:06.51 | Sho_ | XVampireX: That's a matter of settings, really |
| 07:06.52 | XVampireX | clear^ |
| 07:07.12 | kb9ylw | This laptop's a 300 MHz Apple iBook |
| 07:07.13 | Sho_ | antiNeo: It can, if set up to do so. |
| 07:07.19 | XVampireX | antiNeo: ask aseigo when he's here and he may answer you :P |
| 07:07.29 | kb9ylw | Would run Blackbox fine, but KDE is huge and slow by comparison |
| 07:07.30 | antiNeo | :-/ |
| 07:07.36 | kb9ylw | (different objectives, I know) |
| 07:07.42 | XVampireX | 300mhz, yeah, pretty low |
| 07:08.03 | antiNeo | yeah, it'll be kdelibs holding you down, not the window manager |
| 07:08.04 | Sho_ | kb9ylw: You're comparing a window manager to a desktop environment. kwin by itself (KDEs window manager) is probably not more resource hungry than blackbox. |
| 07:08.07 | *** join/#kde _unsrat1109 (n=anto@125.162.205.28) |
| 07:08.37 | kb9ylw | Sho_: like I said, different objectives. |
| 07:08.39 | antiNeo | kb9ylw: might I recommend a light weight browser like dillo? |
| 07:09.10 | XVampireX | kb9ylw: you might want to install kde 3.5.5 alot of speed boosts since your version |
| 07:09.33 | XVampireX | kb9ylw: or play around with xfce, that should be fine for you |
| 07:09.35 | antiNeo | if I had a 300mhz box, I would just turn it into a shell server. it's not worth the desktop hastle |
| 07:09.42 | kb9ylw | XVampireX: I may look at upgrading next time I turn the thing on. It's too excruciating for tonight |
| 07:09.50 | *** part/#kde _unsrat1109 (n=anto@125.162.205.28) |
| 07:10.00 | XVampireX | kb9ylw: know xfce? |
| 07:10.06 | antiNeo | kb9ylw: is it a pI or PII? |
| 07:10.13 | XVampireX | kinda like a lightweight gnome |
| 07:10.14 | kb9ylw | XVampireX: is that the one that looks like CDE? |
| 07:10.21 | kb9ylw | antiNeo: PowerPC G3 |
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| 07:10.34 | Sho_ | XVampireX: I doubt XFce is less CPU hungry than KDE, considering it uses GTK |
| 07:10.37 | XVampireX | kb9ylw: don't know much about CDE, but why does it matter? |
| 07:10.46 | antiNeo | kb9ylw: ohh, then it's not that bad. being a power pc, it's probably like a 600mhz PIII |
| 07:10.53 | canllaith | Mmm |
| 07:11.06 | canllaith | I have a g4 iBook among the clutter in here and actually it peforms really really bloody terribly |
| 07:11.14 | XVampireX | Sho_: It is less resource hungry, the memory comparison in that article we all know does stupid comparison via using openoffice.org instead of a gtk based app |
| 07:11.20 | antiNeo | kb9ylw: take your pick: http://xwinman.org/ |
| 07:11.21 | XVampireX | like abiword |
| 07:11.30 | Sho_ | My iBook G4 800 runs Kubuntu Edgy just fine, and feels sigificantly faster than Mac OS X. |
| 07:11.37 | canllaith | Oh sure it's faster than OSX |
| 07:11.47 | canllaith | but it's like molasses compared to even my 1.2GHz low voltage core solo |
| 07:11.49 | bline | Anyone use karm have trouble with it activating per desktop setting? |
| 07:12.20 | antiNeo | alright... forgive me... i'm gonna ask my question again ;-P |
| 07:12.41 | kb9ylw | I'll probably just use this as a graphical terminal, run the apps on something with a bit more OOMPH! |
| 07:12.41 | antiNeo | i'm having a problem with kde printing. kde apps won't print while I'm using fluxbox, but they will print when I'm using kde. what's causing this? is there a service I need to start to get it to work? |
| 07:12.43 | canllaith | and yes, XFCE is the one that used to look a lot like CDE, although now it's less so |
| 07:13.11 | XVampireX | kb9ylw: how much ram? |
| 07:13.16 | antiNeo | kb9ylw: you should try xubuntu... it's ubuntu with xfce and light weight apps... |
| 07:13.19 | kb9ylw | Okay. I used CDE on a DEC Unix years ago |
| 07:13.34 | kb9ylw | I have an ubuntu CD, but it wouldn't work on that iBook |
| 07:13.42 | canllaith | antiNeo: Kcontrol -> KDE Components -> Service Manager shows a KDE print daemon |
| 07:13.45 | canllaith | Wonder if that's it. |
| 07:13.48 | antiNeo | kb9ylw: or, you could just install cde itself. I think it's still being developed ;-P |
| 07:13.50 | kb9ylw | The x86 disc might work on one of my PCs though. |
| 07:14.00 | XVampireX | kb9ylw: how much ram? You should look into using text mode installer too |
| 07:14.04 | kb9ylw | I think CDE depended on Motif or something |
| 07:14.21 | kb9ylw | XVampireX: I wasn't given the option of text mode. |
| 07:14.32 | XVampireX | kb9ylw: what distribution? |
| 07:14.50 | kb9ylw | Yellow Dog Linux |
| 07:14.54 | XVampireX | Ah |
| 07:14.57 | kb9ylw | Only thing I could find that would boot. |
| 07:15.06 | XVampireX | try xubuntu/kubuntu |
| 07:15.14 | kb9ylw | No idea how much ram's in there. |
| 07:15.17 | kb9ylw | Not enough. |
| 07:15.40 | XVampireX | even with 128mbram you should be able to handle stripped down kde |
| 07:15.57 | antiNeo | canllaith: yeah, that's it. when i'm in fluxbox, it says that it's "Not Running". I don't know how to start it though, cuz it's "load-on-demand" |
| 07:16.15 | canllaith | Neither do I I'm afraid. If you want the KDE services framework then I can only suggest that you use KDE. |
| 07:16.36 | antiNeo | ewww... |
| 07:16.39 | antiNeo | ;-P |
| 07:16.43 | canllaith | 128MB is a bit slim. It's ok if you tweak things but you really need 256MB to run a full featured desktop. |
| 07:16.48 | bline | karm would be really cool for managing my time spent on projects if it worked, |
| 07:16.52 | Renze | antiNeo: is kded running? |
| 07:17.01 | antiNeo | Renze: i don't think so... |
| 07:17.06 | Renze | antiNeo: bingo |
| 07:17.07 | XVampireX | canllaith: I said stripped down kde for a reason |
| 07:17.36 | XVampireX | canllaith: fortunately, kde4 will use qt4 = less resource hungry :) |
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| 07:17.52 | canllaith | XVampireX: I wrote the recommended minimum specifications for KDE & Kubuntu. I know what I'm talking about :) |
| 07:18.28 | canllaith | I don't think it's going to get much resource hungry. The minimum requirements at the moment for it to perform reasonably well is 500MHz/256MB |
| 07:18.36 | XVampireX | canllaith: and I'm using kde (kubuntu) which works insanely fast even with 256mbram |
| 07:18.56 | kb9ylw | I have something like a 1.8 GHz Athlon 64, but no mainboard yet |
| 07:18.58 | canllaith | I don't think we need to get less resource hungry than that if it means sacrificing things like a decent services framework etc. |
| 07:19.05 | kb9ylw | That might keep up with KDE |
| 07:19.13 | canllaith | Oh, heck yes kb9ylw |
| 07:19.48 | canllaith | I have a 1.2GHz core solo and it flies. 1GB ram helps =) |
| 07:19.51 | antiNeo | Renze: actually, kded is running... |
| 07:19.57 | Sho_ | I've got a K6/2 500 Mhz laptop with 192 MB RAM floating around somewhere that runs a fully-featured KDE quite decently. |
| 07:19.58 | XVampireX | You people think KDE and Gnome and XFCE are going to be the only modern desktop environments when Mainstream comes? :P |
| 07:20.10 | Renze | antiNeo: hmmm... then the print service should be starting when needed |
| 07:20.12 | canllaith | A couple laptops ago was a 700Mhz/256MB though, and it ran KDE just great. That was with KDE 2.4 |
| 07:20.15 | canllaith | Erm, 3.4 ** |
| 07:20.24 | kb9ylw | What is "Mainstream"? |
| 07:20.36 | XVampireX | The windows user base :P |
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| 07:21.05 | kb9ylw | Oh, that'll be my wife then. |
| 07:21.08 | kb9ylw | hello hermier |
| 07:21.10 | Sho_ | XVampireX: Well, KDE, Gnome and XFce are the three largest projects at this time |
| 07:21.17 | XVampireX | Yeah, they are |
| 07:21.40 | bou\bbin | when new KDE version is out, can i just simply update it with 'smart' ? |
| 07:21.41 | XVampireX | So I wonder if you think there will be better DE's later? |
| 07:21.45 | canllaith | bou\bbin: yup |
| 07:21.51 | XVampireX | Right now KDE is too complete |
| 07:21.59 | canllaith | If your distro has packages, I assume you're using SuSE if you are usin smart ? |
| 07:22.07 | bou\bbin | suse 10.1 yeah |
| 07:22.23 | canllaith | bou\bbin: yeah, definitely. They put packages out for that really quickly after releases |
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| 07:22.33 | bou\bbin | nice |
| 07:22.41 | canllaith | if you're using the 'suse-kde' channel I think it's called, it always has the latest. |
| 07:22.51 | antiNeo | XVampireX: i don't think it's "too complete". it's just not polished |
| 07:22.54 | XVampireX | And what's the best dictionary for KDE or Linux? |
| 07:23.10 | kb9ylw | I need some faster mainboards. |
| 07:23.20 | XVampireX | antiNeo: I believe with KDE4 it will be quite polished :P hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...... PHONON |
| 07:23.23 | canllaith | http://ascent.co.nz/ProductSpecification.aspx?ItemID=349247 <--- that looks snazzy |
| 07:24.05 | antiNeo | XVampireX: nah, if you ask me, photon will probably be messed up when it first comes out. but by 4.4 i'm sure it will be awesome |
| 07:24.17 | XVampireX | Heh |
| 07:24.18 | XVampireX | okey |
| 07:24.31 | antiNeo | similar to kde 3.2 and .4... |
| 07:24.44 | XVampireX | canllaith: Neat, but system specifications, I want to see linux there |
| 07:24.53 | XVampireX | Even though I know it's most likely compatible |
| 07:24.58 | XVampireX | I still want to see linux there |
| 07:25.14 | antiNeo | no manufacturer ever bothers to say linux :-( |
| 07:25.28 | antiNeo | and whenever one does, I go out of my way just to buy whatever they're selling |
| 07:25.34 | kb9ylw | If they say Linux, then people will expect them to actually support it. |
| 07:25.35 | XVampireX | lol |
| 07:25.53 | canllaith | XVampireX: why? Who cares? It's a USB mouse, it's gonna work |
| 07:25.59 | XVampireX | I know |
| 07:26.02 | canllaith | XVampireX: besides, I'm not going to use it under linux =) |
| 07:26.03 | Renze | antiNeo: really? I have this bridge in New York *cough*linux*cough* that I think you'd love |
| 07:26.12 | bou\bbin | do you think that xgl and compiz are still usable in KDE 4, or does it has its own apps for those cool effects ? |
| 07:26.13 | XVampireX | canllaith: I still want to see linux |
| 07:26.36 | XVampireX | bou\bbin: kwin4 like compiz |
| 07:26.50 | canllaith | I have this mouse for linux: http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2135,CONTENTID=10916 |
| 07:26.51 | XVampireX | bou\bbin: and kwin4 and aiglx = perfect |
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| 07:27.12 | bou\bbin | XVampireX how hard is to setup aixgl, i have xgl running now ? |
| 07:27.12 | antiNeo | Renze: I don't get your drift :-/ |
| 07:27.25 | canllaith | With sun type 6 usb keyboards, but they don't have those anymore so to replace 'em I'm ordering some type 7s |
| 07:27.35 | XVampireX | bou\bbin: install xorg 7.1 and latest graphics card drivers |
| 07:27.37 | Renze | antiNeo: <antiNeo> and whenever one does, I go out of my way just to buy whatever they're selling <-- |
| 07:27.48 | antiNeo | ... |
| 07:27.58 | bou\bbin | XVampireX that can't be done with 'smart' ? |
| 07:28.01 | XVampireX | latest = in case of nvidia it would be the 9xxx series |
| 07:28.02 | antiNeo | LOL |
| 07:28.11 | antiNeo | that was taken out of context and you know it ;-P |
| 07:28.19 | Renze | antiNeo: of course I do :P |
| 07:28.40 | XVampireX | bou\bbin: not sure how opensuse handles packages |
| 07:28.45 | bou\bbin | ok |
| 07:29.11 | XVampireX | canllaith: bluetooth mouse? how's that? |
| 07:29.16 | bou\bbin | how tocheck what version of nvidia drivers im using now ? |
| 07:29.30 | XVampireX | bou\bbin: glxinfo |
| 07:29.31 | XVampireX | wait |
| 07:29.42 | canllaith | XVampireX: .... with bluetooth! |
| 07:29.49 | XVampireX | bou\bbin: glxinfo | grep version |
| 07:29.57 | canllaith | vaio has inbuilt bluetooth |
| 07:30.13 | XVampireX | Wait, nevermind |
| 07:30.20 | XVampireX | not glxinfo, ahhhhhh |
| 07:30.25 | XVampireX | someone help us :P |
| 07:30.39 | bou\bbin | OpenGL version string: 1.2 (2.1.0 NVIDIA 96.25), this should be the newest, so upgrading the Xorg is still needed |
| 07:30.44 | XVampireX | OpenGL version string: 2.1.0 NVIDIA 96.25 |
| 07:30.45 | XVampireX | yes |
| 07:30.48 | XVampireX | that's what I have |
| 07:31.01 | bou\bbin | how to check the Xorg version ? :) |
| 07:31.21 | canllaith | X -version |
| 07:31.26 | XVampireX | :P |
| 07:33.28 | XVampireX | canllaith: bluetooth still requires battery for mouse? |
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| 07:33.46 | canllaith | XVampireX: yes |
| 07:33.53 | canllaith | seems to last a long time |
| 07:33.53 | XVampireX | Oh well |
| 07:34.16 | XVampireX | for example? |
| 07:34.18 | bou\bbin | hmm it complains when i use this -xorgVersion |
| 07:34.28 | XVampireX | why? |
| 07:34.36 | canllaith | I've had the mouse a month and used it every day for hours and it doesn't want replacing yet |
| 07:34.40 | bou\bbin | Fatal server error: |
| 07:34.47 | bou\bbin | Server is already active for display 0 |
| 07:34.51 | bou\bbin | odd. |
| 07:34.52 | XVampireX | canllaith: wee, that's awesome :D |
| 07:35.07 | XVampireX | serge@serge-desktop:~/Games$ X -version |
| 07:35.07 | XVampireX | X Window System Version 7.1.1 |
| 07:35.40 | bou\bbin | (1127) <root@a84-231-243-183:/home/boubbin> # Xorg -version |
| 07:35.43 | bou\bbin | that helped |
| 07:35.57 | bou\bbin | hah, X Window System Version 6.9.0 |
| 07:35.59 | bou\bbin | old :/ |
| 07:36.20 | XVampireX | not really |
| 07:36.26 | bou\bbin | is there a tutorial how to set up the newest ? |
| 07:36.59 | Renze | bou\bbin: using your distro's package manager is usually the safest and easiest path |
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| 07:37.27 | bou\bbin | ok, it can't find it. do i need to add xorg server as source ? |
| 07:37.44 | Renze | bou\bbin: what distro? |
| 07:37.51 | bou\bbin | suse 10.1 |
| 07:38.04 | Renze | sorry, no idea about suse |
| 07:38.09 | bou\bbin | k |
| 07:38.11 | XVampireX | bou\bbin: #suse |
| 07:38.26 | Renze | bou\bbin: you might want to try asking in #suse |
| 07:38.43 | bou\bbin | :P |
| 07:39.09 | XVampireX | renze=ignore(xvampirex) |
| 07:46.30 | somekool | anyone using Google Talk audio chat using kopete from 3.5.5? |
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| 07:49.07 | somekool | XVampireX: are you using gentoo? |
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| 07:49.35 | Vuen | anyone know where the language files for konqueror are? i want to change some strings |
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| 08:21.41 | somekool | kde applications can no longer display french accent, what am I missing? |
| 08:21.47 | somekool | (B???(B |
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| 08:24.46 | canllaith | want my new keyboards nowwwwwwwwwwwwww |
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| 08:32.33 | afaik | for http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2006/11/05/burger-kings-xbox-360-game-sneak-king-trailer.htm |
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| 09:18.58 | bline | I found a work around to karm issues. Select 2 desktops on the auto tracking and it will use only the first one. Someone has an off by one bug.. |
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| 09:23.51 | tech9iner | G'Day all |
| 09:24.16 | tech9iner | anyway to tame and/or ideally remove altogether this silly new 'search index' field on Konqueror please? |
| 09:25.26 | tech9iner | damn thing the instant it appeared created 2 extra keystrokes here each damned time we want to open Konqueror with keyboard / mouse focus on files. you know. kinda where focus needs to be in a file manager. grrr. hate this thing.. |
| 09:27.06 | bline | search index? |
| 09:27.25 | benJIman | tech9iner: settings -> configure toolbars |
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| 09:27.37 | tech9iner | each time one changes folders etc. keyboard/mouse is focused elsewhere now and one must press tabkey 2x to get type-find focus back on filenames pane... oi oi. horrid idea for feature bloat here. after years of no such probs on kde loyalist due expressly kde's keyboard centricity versus gnome's going backwards on fast pure keyboard PC operations.. |
| 09:27.42 | tech9iner | thanks benh |
| 09:27.47 | tech9iner | thanks benJIman even |
| 09:27.57 | benJIman | tech9iner: it shouldn't steal focus |
| 09:27.58 | bline | Also you can just right click on toolbars and configure |
| 09:28.03 | tech9iner | it does here benJIman |
| 09:28.16 | tech9iner | just last several days since this new feature was added.. |
| 09:28.36 | benJIman | tech9iner: mention it to beineri when he's arround |
| 09:28.44 | tech9iner | each time i change folders/directories etc. or 1st running Konqueror.. |
| 09:28.52 | tech9iner | will do thanks for headsup benJIman |
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| 09:41.31 | black_13 | why does midnigh command look "odd" in konsole? |
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| 09:43.26 | Renze | black_13: can you post a screenshot? |
| 09:43.53 | black_13 | yeah give me a second |
| 09:44.38 | black_13 | Renze how do you take a screen cap in linux sorry still wet behind the ears |
| 09:44.45 | Renze | ksnapshot |
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| 09:45.47 | black_13 | i have to install it |
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| 09:47.32 | black_13 | Renze do you have paster you like |
| 09:47.45 | Renze | http://imageshack.us is the one I use the most |
| 09:48.20 | annma | hi all |
| 09:48.37 | Renze | hi annma |
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| 09:51.20 | black_13 | Renze http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot1ha5.png |
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| 09:51.49 | Renze | you need to choose a more console compatible font |
| 09:52.21 | black_13 | how do i do that? |
| 09:52.37 | Renze | Settings -> Font -> Select |
| 09:53.31 | Renze | your Font menu may be different - it changed recently |
| 09:54.13 | black_13 | what kind of font should i be looking for? |
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| 09:54.35 | Renze | one that looks good would be a start :) |
| 09:54.55 | Renze | if you have it installed, try Bitstream Vera Sans Mono or DejaVu Sans Mono |
| 09:55.16 | black_13 | heh |
| 09:55.40 | black_13 | i look |
| 09:55.42 | black_13 | ill look |
| 09:56.13 | black_13 | funny mc looks great when i run it under xterm but under konsole i has this funny look |
| 09:56.21 | black_13 | harmless but annoying |
| 09:56.30 | Renze | it's just the font doing it |
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| 09:56.47 | Renze | if you want the same font as xterm, try Fixed [misc] |
| 09:57.42 | black_13 | its not list as one available |
| 09:57.57 | Renze | maybe your distro doesn't install many fonts by default? |
| 09:58.04 | black_13 | (anyone seed the movie "andrei rubylev") |
| 09:58.19 | Renze | never heard of it' |
| 09:58.20 | black_13 | its debian an you may be right that it did not |
| 09:58.27 | black_13 | awesome |
| 09:59.31 | black_13 | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:59.37 | Renze | I don't know much about debian, I'm afraid |
| 09:59.53 | black_13 | stable like a volvo |
| 10:01.12 | Renze | I prefer living just a tad closer to recent releases :D |
| 10:01.23 | black_13 | that is a drawback |
| 10:01.36 | black_13 | man embedded systems have debian as a derivative |
| 10:01.38 | black_13 | for some reason |
| 10:02.10 | black_13 | yeah lack of xorg is a pain but its coming in a couple of months |
| 10:02.32 | black_13 | i like gentoo |
| 10:02.46 | black_13 | great server platform |
| 10:03.19 | Renze | great anything platform, since it doesn't come preset as anything |
| 10:03.53 | black_13 | sure sure lets not get into an religious argument |
| 10:04.06 | black_13 | i have just used gentoo for server and liked it |
| 10:04.23 | black_13 | i didnt like it when i wanted to make a small boot cd |
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| 10:05.41 | black_13 | actualy i have wanted to play with crux |
| 10:06.46 | black_13 | like gentoo you can build all from scratch but uses make files |
| 10:06.54 | black_13 | simpler startup up scripts |
| 10:07.10 | Renze | based on slackware? |
| 10:07.21 | black_13 | source based |
| 10:07.44 | black_13 | make like slackware god i havent used slackware since early 90s |
| 10:08.36 | black_13 | i have monspace fonts looks the same (bad) |
| 10:09.12 | Renze | maybe try installing some more fonts? |
| 10:09.23 | Renze | I don't know what comes with debian by default |
| 10:09.30 | black_13 | me either |
| 10:09.49 | black_13 | some said use xterm TERM well it is TERM=xterm |
| 10:10.12 | Renze | it is just a font problem... nothing more |
| 10:10.25 | Renze | it doesn't have the box drawing characters |
| 10:10.39 | black_13 | ah |
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| 10:13.36 | black_13 | termcap |
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| 10:16.44 | black_13 | Renze http://www.mail-archive.com/mc@gnome.org/msg01854.html |
| 10:17.46 | Renze | black_13: give it a try, it might work. |
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| 10:21.53 | tech9iner | G'Day Renze |
| 10:21.59 | Renze | hi tech9iner |
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| 10:29.17 | svamppi | How can I take a screenshot in KDE? |
| 10:29.23 | Renze | ksnapshot |
| 10:29.40 | svamppi | Ah, thanks |
| 10:29.47 | Renze | no problem |
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| 11:02.14 | Jazon | hi everyone |
| 11:02.31 | Jazon | i get this error a *lot* when i call X functions from console: X Error: BadDevice, invalid or uninitialized input device 166 |
| 11:02.37 | Jazon | how can i get rid of it? |
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| 11:17.38 | xushi | argh.. the mic input on the left of the laptop next to the headphones input.. is that the Mic or the Front Mic ? |
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| 11:37.50 | `Diablo` | hi |
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| 11:38.59 | klerfayt | help me with "allow plugins globally" option in konqueror please; if I choose to disable plugins (flash) globally and allow for www.youtube.com I get an error then I visit youtube.com that says I haven't installed flash |
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| 11:39.35 | xushi_ | i couldn't get flash/java to work in youtube at all, even with allow globally |
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| 11:41.36 | klerfayt | xushi_: what version you got? |
| 11:41.46 | xushi_ | of what ? |
| 11:42.49 | klerfayt | xushi_: konqi |
| 11:42.58 | xushi_ | 3.5.5 |
| 11:43.47 | klerfayt | xushi_: weird; I got same version and flash works in google video and youtube, etc. |
| 11:44.38 | mouse_ | hi |
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| 11:45.21 | AMorozov | Hi! |
| 11:46.07 | AMorozov | Can I ask a question about Qt Designer? |
| 11:46.33 | AMorozov | does anybody here use it? |
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| 11:48.35 | tmg | AMorozov: The people in #qt or #kde-devel will know |
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| 11:50.03 | xushi_ | how can i know if i should use mic or Front mic in kmixer ? |
| 11:50.13 | xushi_ | i dont know why now my mic no longer works in skype. used to.. |
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| 12:25.48 | xushi_ | what does it mean in kmix above Capture when it has a red triangle with a red 'pause' image above it ? |
| 12:27.04 | vesuv_ | xushi_: Where in KMix exactly? |
| 12:27.14 | xushi_ | above Capture in the input section |
| 12:27.54 | xushi_ | my PC Speaker in the output section has the triangle, but green with a play image on top of that |
| 12:28.01 | xushi_ | but the capture one is red with a pause icon |
| 12:28.21 | vesuv_ | I don't have 'Capture' .. |
| 12:29.32 | xushi_ | damn it i'm p[ulling my hair here with this fscking mic |
| 12:29.34 | vesuv_ | xushi_: http://www.mementodiem.de/vesuv/images/kmix.png |
| 12:29.35 | xushi_ | it was working last month |
| 12:30.14 | vesuv_ | Would you mind making a screenshot of your KMix? |
| 12:30.16 | xushi_ | strange, i don't have those red dots on the bottom of each |
| 12:30.20 | xushi_ | sure, sec |
| 12:32.04 | xushi_ | http://xushi.co.uk/xushi/files/mix1.jpg |
| 12:32.04 | xushi_ | and mix2.jpg |
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| 12:32.50 | annma | xushi_: try backing up kmixrc to kmixrc.bak in .kde/share/config |
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| 12:33.26 | xushi_ | done. and delete? modify ? |
| 12:33.28 | annma | where is the error in kmix screenshot? |
| 12:33.40 | vesuv | The red triangle |
| 12:33.43 | xushi_ | annma: not quite an error, look in mix2.jpg, that red triangle |
| 12:33.52 | annma | ah in mix2 |
| 12:33.53 | xushi_ | i think that may be my problem why it cant capture my mic |
| 12:34.17 | xushi_ | i mean i can hear myself, but skype or anything else wont hear me |
| 12:34.17 | vesuv | xushi_: Anyways, listen to annma, she can help you alot better then I do ,) |
| 12:34.18 | xushi_ | hehe |
| 12:34.23 | xushi_ | much appreciated to all |
| 12:34.35 | xushi_ | i've backed up kmixrc. do i delete it and restart kmix now ? |
| 12:34.43 | annma | yes |
| 12:35.04 | annma | vesuv: no, no, you are as able as me |
| 12:35.22 | xushi_ | hmm, same thing |
| 12:35.39 | annma | did your hardware change? |
| 12:35.43 | xushi_ | nope |
| 12:35.46 | xushi_ | same images |
| 12:35.52 | annma | your hardware |
| 12:35.56 | xushi_ | same .. volume settings |
| 12:35.58 | xushi_ | same devices |
| 12:36.14 | xushi_ | my hardware ? |
| 12:36.19 | xushi_ | as in right now ? |
| 12:36.32 | annma | since the change in kmix |
| 12:36.39 | xushi_ | nope |
| 12:37.02 | annma | can you click on the redbutton on bottom of capture? |
| 12:37.17 | xushi_ | yea, i switced it on (made it even redder) |
| 12:37.36 | xushi_ | but it still shows a red triangle with a pause button on that |
| 12:37.39 | annma | in input I have a bright red the input device I want |
| 12:37.48 | annma | in input I have in bright red the input device I want |
| 12:37.57 | annma | for ex "microphone" |
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| 12:38.30 | xushi_ | funny thing is, i see no red, no red button, in output. I also don't get the point of having mic and front mic in output... |
| 12:38.33 | annma | what do you have in Switches? |
| 12:38.35 | xushi_ | they're not in input |
| 12:38.40 | xushi_ | switches both to Front Mic |
| 12:38.45 | xushi_ | tried the Mic instead, same problem |
| 12:38.48 | annma | Input tab |
| 12:38.56 | annma | you have an Input tab |
| 12:39.17 | xushi_ | input tab only has two CApture bars. Nothing else |
| 12:39.20 | annma | in switches you have the input devices listed? |
| 12:39.38 | xushi_ | In Switches, the only devices listed are: Mic, Front Mic, Line, CD |
| 12:39.53 | annma | what kde version and whatr distro please? |
| 12:40.03 | xushi_ | gentoo, kde 3.5.5 |
| 12:40.15 | annma | weird, it seems different from kde source |
| 12:40.17 | xushi_ | 2.6.18-ck1-r1 |
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| 12:40.27 | annma | did you always have it that way? |
| 12:40.35 | annma | kmix, with 3 tabs? |
| 12:40.40 | delight | I got two edgy installations ... only differenz is that the one is using AIGLX and the other unfortunatly XGL ... but it's both not used anyways ... now on kde I can't choose the keyboard layouts in kcontrol on the "XGL machine" ... all fields are empty ... i can activate keyboard layouts checkbutton, but no keyboard type or layout is present or chooseable ... |
| 12:40.53 | annma | delight: #kubuntu |
| 12:40.57 | delight | yes |
| 12:40.58 | xushi_ | i can't really remember. All i remember is that ~3 months ago it was working. But i were on 3.5.4 and kernel 2.6.17 back then |
| 12:41.14 | annma | xushi_: seems not a kde problem |
| 12:41.24 | annma | what sound card is it? |
| 12:41.42 | xushi_ | SMBus: Intel Corporation 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW (ICH6 Family) SMBus Controller (rev 03) |
| 12:42.22 | annma | what is written in kmix? |
| 12:42.29 | annma | current mixer |
| 12:42.45 | xushi | err, where's that ? |
| 12:43.20 | annma | under menubar |
| 12:43.25 | annma | do something for me |
| 12:43.34 | annma | in Help -> About KMix, what is there? |
| 12:43.52 | xushi | KMix 2.6 (Usng KDE 3.5.5) |
| 12:44.06 | xushi | and the about, authors, thanks to, licencse tabs |
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| 12:46.35 | annma | xushi: hmm, not sure what is messed here |
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| 12:47.00 | annma | i don't have this capture thigs |
| 12:47.08 | xushi | :'( |
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| 12:47.58 | annma | can you edit the kmixrc file please? |
| 12:48.13 | xushi | sure! if you can advise me on what to do =) |
| 12:48.30 | annma | just have a loof in it |
| 12:48.38 | annma | maybe post it on a pastebin |
| 12:48.42 | annma | look |
| 12:49.32 | xushi | o_O |
| 12:49.34 | xushi | interesting... |
| 12:49.40 | xushi | there is no kmixrc |
| 12:49.56 | xushi | kmixctrlrc kmixrc.bak kmixrcRlkQia.new |
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| 12:50.05 | xushi | kmixrc.bak is the one i backed up |
| 12:50.26 | annma | can you log out of kde and come back? |
| 12:50.30 | annma | close kmix |
| 12:50.35 | annma | log out and back in |
| 12:50.46 | xushi | lol.. ok :) brb |
| 12:53.16 | xushi | damn.. the amount of windows i have to save.. sec |
| 12:53.39 | annma | don't save them |
| 12:53.48 | xushi | (openoffice, etc...) |
| 12:54.05 | annma | ah |
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| 12:55.53 | xushi | ok, |
| 12:56.01 | xushi | there's a kmixrc, pasting |
| 12:56.34 | xushi | http://pastebin.ca/241643 |
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| 12:58.27 | annma | but it's still bad? |
| 12:58.45 | xushi | hanv on |
| 12:59.01 | xushi | i can hear it in skypw now, but its as if the volume is at 1% |
| 12:59.46 | annma | microphone? what does the tab say and the switch? |
| 13:00.16 | annma | there's no ca[pture mentioned in your kmixrc |
| 13:00.53 | xushi | the switch is front mic |
| 13:01.03 | xushi | the mic tab is on and unmuted, same with front mic |
| 13:01.29 | xushi | if i mute mic, nothing works. if i unmute mic, i can hear myself in the skype callback but volume ~1% |
| 13:01.32 | xushi | barely can hear myself |
| 13:01.49 | annma | can you move the volume up? |
| 13:01.57 | xushi | all volumes are on full |
| 13:02.51 | annma | :( |
| 13:03.10 | annma | is the input tab still with the 2 captures? |
| 13:03.17 | xushi | yes |
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| 13:07.38 | LinuxRocks | hi again :) |
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| 13:08.22 | asdfcd | Hi |
| 13:09.14 | annma | xushi: i am sorry I cannot help you there |
| 13:09.28 | annma | maybe try google with: <device name>+kmix |
| 13:09.40 | asdfcd | Is there a KDE/QT/any-smalllib-usin application which uses libnjb to connect to mp3 player? there is gnomad2 but it s a !mono-application! :( |
| 13:10.23 | annma | look at kde-apps.org, asdfcd |
| 13:10.36 | Desintegr | Amarok ? |
| 13:10.43 | asdfcd | annma: allready done nothin found |
| 13:10.45 | Desintegr | I see a « njb » flag on my Gentoo |
| 13:11.05 | asdfcd | ok let me install amarok |
| 13:11.16 | Desintegr | « In the new features of amarok 1.4.2 there's a "Nomad Jukebox support". » |
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| 13:11.51 | asdfcd | shit amarok depends on xmms in debian.. |
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| 13:16.32 | xushi | whois loquacity |
| 13:16.34 | xushi | .. |
| 13:16.40 | xushi | weird |
| 13:17.14 | xushi | when i whois a nick which isn't in, i get "[Error] loquacity: No such nick/channel.". Which makes me think.. can i whois a channel ? o_O |
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| 13:19.21 | yetifoot | can anyone help please? I tried setting up a file association in kcontrol, and now everything i do i get the message Could not find mime type |
| 13:19.21 | yetifoot | application/octet-stream |
| 13:20.14 | asdfcd | helper_bot->set njb+gui http://kzenexplorer.sourceforge.net |
| 13:20.34 | lostson | I'm curious as to what people's opinion is as to what distro best suits a kde user ? |
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| 13:23.12 | xushi | lostson: i guess it depends on how you want to configure it.. choose lfs if you want to do it from absolute scratch. err, slackware if you want to install binaries. gentoo if you want either all compiled for you, or specific ones (monolithic vs split builds) |
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| 13:24.17 | lostson | true but that wasnt what i was getting at, more along the lines of what distro supports kde the best as in keeping very up to date and patching as fast as possible |
| 13:26.35 | xushi | oh, from the ones i tried (slack, mandrake, lfs, gentoo), gentoo keeps up quite nicely. |
| 13:26.37 | Q-collective | [14:11:55] <asdfcd> shit amarok depends on xmms in debian.. |
| 13:26.42 | Q-collective | hahahaha |
| 13:26.57 | Q-collective | couldn't help myself |
| 13:27.02 | xushi | lol |
| 13:27.08 | lostson | yeah i remember that about debian |
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| 13:27.55 | yetifoot | debian stable is nice, i think its just got to kde 3.4 :p |
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| 13:29.28 | Q-collective | yetifoot: the central feature of debian stable is that it doesn't change anything |
| 13:29.38 | Q-collective | besides security updates |
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| 13:31.05 | yetifoot | yeah i do like it, it is stable, and there are some things i like about the old kde |
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| 13:42.11 | ErenTurkay | hi |
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| 13:42.24 | ErenTurkay | i have a problem about kmetabar compiling, is it true channel for ask? |
| 13:43.07 | StarScream_home | ErenTurkay: you can try, there is also kde-dev |
| 13:43.14 | ErenTurkay | ok, thanks |
| 13:43.30 | ErenTurkay | http://rafb.net/paste/results/MbgBmh84.html |
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| 13:44.46 | ErenTurkay | and the users also wrote it |
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| 13:44.54 | ErenTurkay | i haven't found any solution :( |
| 13:44.56 | ErenTurkay | patch etc. |
| 13:44.59 | ErenTurkay | http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=28725 |
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| 13:49.19 | yetifoot | anyone have any clue why i'm getting this/how to fix? Its since i tried to add a file associaltion of chm, i've been googling, and tried a bunch of things but still can't fix it, everyhing i do i get the message Could not find mime type |
| 13:49.19 | yetifoot | application/octet-stream |
| 13:49.24 | Eliran_Itzhak_ | Hello everyone ! After upgrading from FC5 to FC6, My Konqueror display files in directorys with every other line in black, thus unreadable. how can i fix that ? |
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| 13:54.26 | xushi | Eliran_Itzhak_: it could be a theme issue |
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| 13:56.03 | Eliran_Itzhak_ | xushi : Oh.. could be, cause I've went through every option in Konqueror, and nothing helped. I'll check. thanks. |
| 13:56.19 | Eliran_Itzhak_ | thanks again. bye for now. |
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| 14:08.39 | yetifoot | ok, i think i fixed my octet-stream problem now, what is the correct way to setup a file association in kde? everytime i try i end up with this octet-stream error. I want chm files to to open with xchm, i've been trying to use kcontrol->KDE components->file associations |
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| 14:19.06 | tuxick | some known issues with printing/cups in 3.5.5? |
| 14:19.12 | tuxick | it claims there's no cups |
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| 14:19.26 | tuxick | acroread and openoffice disagree |
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| 14:35.05 | Roey | hey guys |
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| 14:35.30 | Roey | what's that view you have of files by relative size (itlooks like a grid with different-sized squares) |
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| 14:40.08 | Sho_ | Roey: It's called "File Size View", I think the kpart is in kdeaddons |
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| 14:49.37 | Roey | Sho_: oh, ok. Is it a Konqueror viewing mode? |
| 14:49.47 | Sho_ | Roey: Yes |
| 14:50.12 | Roey | Sho_: yes, I see it now, thanks. |
| 14:50.20 | Roey | hmm, it doesn't support automatic updating hwne a file changes. |
| 14:51.01 | Sho_ | Roey: There's also a standalone application called "FileLight" by Max Howell that implements similar functionality but uses concentric circles rather than squares to visualize relative size |
| 14:52.59 | Roey | Sho_: ok |
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| 14:53.02 | Roey | Sho_: wow this thing is slow :) |
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| 14:53.21 | Sho_ | Roey: well, it needs to get all those file sizes ... |
| 14:53.37 | Roey | aye. |
| 14:53.41 | Roey | it can't use locate's db? |
| 14:55.02 | Sho_ | Roey: not to my knowledge |
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| 14:58.01 | JabberWokky | Real quick question, the answer is on the tip of my tongue -- what's that cli tool to launch a program with various settings (maximized, custom icon, etc)? |
| 14:59.21 | JabberWokky | (I keep thinking klaunch, which it obviously isn't. It's one of those tools I use maybe once a year when scripting some application) |
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| 15:00.45 | JabberWokky | Ah, I was thinking of kstart... but I thought there was some way to launch with a custom icon...? |
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| 15:09.34 | JabberWokky | (I got a workaround by simply making a different desktop entry, but it seems to me that there should be a more direct way) |
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| 15:25.46 | Mirrakor | whats recommended, an Adressbook as Dir or as single file? (and why) |
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| 15:33.59 | simon23 | hello, my konqueror doesnt show my partittions and other Drives (cd / dvd/usb) in the system tab no more... what can i do to get them displayed back again ?(Konqueror 3.5.3) |
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| 15:34.42 | annma | what aboput KInfoCenter? |
| 15:34.48 | annma | does it display it? |
| 15:35.33 | simon23 | annma: sure... |
| 15:35.57 | simon23 | annma: konqueror displayed it some days ago too |
| 15:36.22 | annma | so what happened? |
| 15:36.25 | vesuv | simon23: and what about media:/? |
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| 15:37.25 | simon23 | annma: (although konqueror could only display the contents of mountpoints when konqueror mounted them the first time , if he tried to access them minutes later in a new window instance - he sucked. and if they were mounted earlier , then he said partition already mounted!) |
| 15:37.37 | simon23 | vesuv: yes - i meant that tab |
| 15:37.43 | vesuv | Ah .. |
| 15:37.49 | simon23 | vesuv: he doesnt display anything now. |
| 15:37.54 | vesuv | hm. |
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| 15:38.39 | annma | simon23: so media:/ is empty |
| 15:38.49 | annma | in konq |
| 15:38.52 | edulix | hi |
| 15:38.56 | simon23 | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:39.11 | vesuv | simon23: do you know the mount points of your hd? |
| 15:39.20 | annma | try a new user, simon23 |
| 15:39.31 | vesuv | or cd-rom or whatever |
| 15:39.41 | vesuv | try to reach them manually |
| 15:39.47 | vesuv | in konqueror |
| 15:40.04 | simon23 | vesuv: yes - i know them all - plus they're in my /etc/fstab and in my kInfoCenter |
| 15:40.16 | simon23 | annma: will do so. |
| 15:40.31 | annma | so you'll know if it's a setting |
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| 15:41.49 | vesuv | simon23: if nothing helps, just make a link to your mount point in media:/ |
| 15:41.54 | vesuv | it dirty, but it helps. |
| 15:41.58 | vesuv | *it's |
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| 15:42.48 | simon23 | annma: new user doesnt help either... |
| 15:43.00 | annma | did you upgrade your distro? |
| 15:43.23 | simon23 | vesuv: already though about that... but having my system tab working would be better - although it works everywhere else :-/ |
| 15:43.23 | annma | what happened so it does not work now? |
| 15:43.55 | simon23 | annma: yes - half a year ago... from sid to etch - but it worled until now. |
| 15:44.37 | vesuv | Maybe it's a broken permission thing? |
| 15:44.40 | simon23 | annma: (debian) is a system upgrade always a bad idea ? |
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| 15:45.11 | simon23 | compared to a fresh installation .. |
| 15:45.25 | simon23 | should i get that via strace? |
| 15:45.38 | simon23 | if its a permission thing. |
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| 15:46.21 | vesuv | I'm not really sure, if it's a permission thing and what the logical next step would be, if I'm right on this one. |
| 15:46.34 | vesuv | It's just a thought, I'm pretty new to KDE to. |
| 15:47.13 | simon23 | maybe i just should do a complete reinstall...after i made a backup. |
| 15:47.28 | simon23 | but thanks for your help ! |
| 15:47.47 | vesuv | simon23: Thats harsh, but it's going to help, probably. |
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| 15:48.49 | ehamberg | How can I get kmail to place email sent from one specific account in that (IMAP) account's sent folder? |
| 15:49.36 | simon23 | well - i messed my win XP up too... but that havent had a reinstall for bout a year now - so its time anyways (if it would have been just windows - i just had to put my bootloader back ) |
| 15:50.10 | simon23 | ehamberg: isn't there a default smtp server mentioned ? |
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| 15:50.22 | simon23 | ehamberg: (i dont know - i use thunderbird) |
| 15:50.29 | simon23 | bye |
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| 15:55.32 | vesuv | ehamberg: Just create a filter |
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| 15:57.27 | ehamberg | Found it. Identities -> Modify -> Advanced |
| 15:57.52 | vesuv | Ah |
| 15:58.28 | vesuv | ehamberg: I'm using Thunderbird, so I just didn't know, there is such feature in KMail. |
| 16:00.20 | t30 | hi people... |
| 16:00.27 | t30 | i have a question... |
| 16:00.48 | t30 | sorry for my english...anyway... |
| 16:00.58 | t30 | i'm usi slackware current e kde 3.5.4 |
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| 16:01.28 | t30 | what is the way to sand, with a DCOP command, a keys sequence to an open window? |
| 16:01.43 | t30 | for example... |
| 16:01.55 | t30 | sent to current window alt-right |
| 16:02.43 | t30 | now i'm setting u irkick... |
| 16:03.12 | t30 | and i can't send a key sequence to a window... |
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| 16:06.03 | t30 | ops... sand=send sorry... |
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| 16:13.06 | t30 | nobody help me? :( |
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| 16:36.59 | tzanger | in KDE 3.5, how can I insert a tab in the standard "search and replace" dialogue window? |
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| 16:37.10 | tzanger | \t just gives a the two literal characters |
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| 16:38.28 | Liquid_Fire | copy/paste it from somewhere else |
| 16:38.37 | tzanger | never thought of that... :-) |
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| 16:51.02 | gltripp | hello |
| 16:51.18 | jorik | hi |
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| 16:51.40 | klerfayt | does kde have an video editor? |
| 16:52.32 | vesuv | klerfayt: http://www.jahshaka.org/ |
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| 16:53.10 | vesuv | klerfayt: For more advanced work you should try http://cvs.cinelerra.org/ |
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| 16:53.45 | Mirrakor | gnucash or kmymoney2, what would you recommend? :D |
| 16:54.39 | vesuv | Mirrakor: [x] kmymoney2 |
| 16:54.49 | Mirrakor | cause it has a K in it? :D |
| 16:55.01 | a9913 | Mirrakor: i'd rather have hard cash instead :D |
| 16:55.06 | vesuv | No, but I used it already and I liked it alot. |
| 16:55.41 | Mirrakor | a9913, yeah, but having a virtual account makes me happy, since I can play around with it :D |
| 16:55.49 | t30 | sorry people... |
| 16:56.00 | t30 | what is the way to send, with a DCOP command, a keys sequence to an open window? |
| 16:56.52 | t30 | or with other type of command, not only with dcop |
| 16:56.53 | t30 | :S |
| 16:57.32 | maxell | do i need gnome for gnucash? |
| 16:58.33 | vesuv | Probably not. |
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| 17:00.37 | Mirrakor | maxell, nope, but a lot of other stuff |
| 17:00.59 | maxell | Mirrakor: because it stops if i try to emerge it (gentoo) |
| 17:01.09 | Mirrakor | what does it say? |
| 17:01.20 | maxell | just a sec. |
| 17:01.31 | vesuv | bwahaha |
| 17:01.52 | Mirrakor | maxell, you can use emerge -p gnucash to see, what it'd install |
| 17:01.52 | vesuv | emerge -p gnucash says alot |
| 17:01.53 | vesuv | ALOT |
| 17:02.08 | vesuv | It seems, like it does need gnome. |
| 17:02.33 | maxell | Mirrakor: http://phpfi.com/171468 |
| 17:02.53 | Mirrakor | nope, like I said, it needs much stuff(to much for me, since I forget to delete them when I unemerge gnucash one day :D ), so I'll choose kmymoney2 :D |
| 17:03.17 | vesuv | http://www.mementodiem.de/vesuv/images/gnucash.png |
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| 17:03.57 | maxell | vesuv: i don't get this all |
| 17:03.58 | Mirrakor | maxell, yeah, seems like I was wrong - It seems like libgsf has to be compiled with gnome :/ |
| 17:04.18 | vesuv | maxell: Probably, because you already have all the other stuff |
| 17:04.19 | Mirrakor | you can try USE="gnome" emerge gnucash but I'm not sure if it will work |
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| 17:04.42 | vesuv | Anyway ... |
| 17:04.53 | vesuv | -> kmymoney2 is the better choice. |
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| 17:06.04 | maxell | vesuv: http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/8011/emergegnucashun9.jpg |
| 17:06.18 | maxell | vesuv: oh that could be possible |
| 17:06.40 | JacobSingh | I'm on an extended trip to India at the moment from California. I've changed my time settings in KDE, however, all my calendar times are still in PST... Is there a way to automatically change / show them all in my local timezone so my reminders are still useful? |
| 17:06.42 | maxell | vesuv: kmymoney is the better choice for kde or because of its ability? |
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| 17:10.23 | Mirrakor | hm.. |
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| 17:11.17 | Mirrakor | If i create a new claneder in Kontact, where should I create it? the old one is stored in ~/.kde3.4/share/apps/korganizer/std.ics should I save the other in the same directory or should I try to store them in some kde3.5 folder? |
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| 17:13.43 | Mirrakor | come on, here's the kde channel xD |
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| 17:15.13 | annma | #kontact |
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| 17:31.23 | mfroes | how can i change the default browser on kde ??? cant find in kcontrol |
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| 17:32.01 | annma | mfroes: KDE Components -> Component chooser |
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| 17:32.42 | PhilRod | mfroes: if you're setting it to firefox, use "firefox %u" |
| 17:32.52 | PhilRod | i wonder why that isn't the default |
| 17:32.57 | PhilRod | hey annma ! |
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| 17:34.12 | xbehave | where do i go for kde wallet/konq support? |
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| 17:35.21 | mfroes | thanks guys |
| 17:35.56 | xbehave | is it possible to choose which wallet konqueror uses? |
| 17:36.34 | pinotree | xbehave: yes, kcontrol -> privacy & security -> wallet |
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| 17:40.39 | xbehave | thx but is there a quicker way to do it, i basically wan to switch between two sets of usernames/paswords for websites |
| 17:42.04 | xbehave | but i want to be able to switch via a shortcut or keycombo or something because ill change frequently |
| 17:42.42 | PhilRod | you could probably do it with dcop |
| 17:43.14 | PhilRod | use kdcop to see if there's a dcop command to do what you want. If so, use khotkeys (aka input actions in kcontrol) to create a shortcut that runs that dcop command |
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| 17:47.24 | JabberWokky | Is there anyway to override _NET_WM_ICON in kwin? |
| 17:47.33 | xbehave | thx PhilRod im having a look now |
| 17:47.58 | sredna | xbehave: I share that wish, only I'd love for kwallet/konqueror to be able to do that with one wallet. All the sets are stored anyways, konqueror could just display a combobox in the username field. |
| 17:48.33 | JabberWokky | (i.e., change the application icon on a instance by instance basis) |
| 17:48.52 | pinotree | JabberWokky: ? |
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| 17:49.35 | JabberWokky | pinotree: For instance, xterm... change the icon for one xterm to one image, and the icon for another xterm to a different icon. |
| 17:50.29 | pinotree | shouldn't that be done at xterm level? |
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| 17:52.20 | JabberWokky | Yes. It should. :) I figured there might be a way to get kwin to override the default "X" icon. |
| 17:53.23 | xbehave | for most situations that would be ok, but because i share use of my computer with some1 else id like to have completly seperate passwords(like 2 seperate profiles in ff) |
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| 18:01.44 | poopybutt | is there a way to make only the taskbar items on the current desktop show up in the task bar? |
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| 18:16.13 | shadok_ | poopybutt: configure panel/taksbar |
| 18:16.17 | shadok_ | *taskbar |
| 18:17.23 | poopybutt | found it thanks |
| 18:18.15 | shadok | np |
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| 18:25.07 | coyctecm | why krita tool panel fonts are so damn small? |
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| 18:25.35 | coyctecm | it uses something like 80% of normal font size |
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| 18:34.00 | sredna | coyctecm: It probably uses a font from your KDE font configuration, maybe the toolbar font? |
| 18:35.00 | sredna | For some reasons, unreadably small fonts seems to be modern, just look at the internet, for example www.kde.org sets the fontsize to '80%' |
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| 18:36.55 | sredna | With a default fontsize in KDE of 10pt, that gives a line height of 2,8mm |
| 18:38.33 | Tm_T | coyctecm: It's defined in sources, 80% from toolbarfonts unless some rules I can't remember. |
| 18:38.41 | blacklotusdubist | lk |
| 18:39.02 | poopybutt | has anybody tried messing with beryl? |
| 18:39.09 | blacklotusdushit | no |
| 18:39.17 | coyctecm | sredna: yes, but it's not a good thing because I use 8px font size in toolbars. So kritas tool panels fonts looks awful :/ |
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| 18:39.52 | sredna | coyctecm: File a bug report at http://bugs.kde.org |
| 18:39.53 | blacklotusdushit | sredna aha |
| 18:40.01 | coyctecm | it's more like feature, not a bug |
| 18:40.11 | blacklotusdushit | its a bug |
| 18:40.16 | sredna | coyctecm: You can file it as a wish |
| 18:40.20 | pinotree | coyctecm: bugzilla is for feature requests too |
| 18:40.23 | blacklotusdushit | lol |
| 18:40.50 | coyctecm | Tm_T: yes i was thinking maybe I just change it from the source |
| 18:41.08 | blacklotusdushit | colytecm i see |
| 18:41.14 | poopybutt | does beryl really slow down your computer? |
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| 18:41.22 | blacklotusdushit | poopybutt no |
| 18:41.27 | sredna | He, 80% of toolbar font is a dangerous path to take |
| 18:41.38 | blacklotusdushit | sredna dont talk like that ok |
| 18:41.41 | coyctecm | yes it is |
| 18:41.43 | poopybutt | it looks pretty awesome |
| 18:41.46 | sredna | Maybe the programmer also designed the new www.kde.org stylesheet :p |
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| 18:41.56 | blacklotusdushit | sredna are you sick?? |
| 18:42.21 | sredna | blacklotusdushit: What? |
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| 18:42.39 | blacklotusdushit | sredna shut up ok |
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| 18:42.57 | sredna | blacklotusdushit: If it's sick to expect quality software to respect the user configuration I am sick |
| 18:43.00 | annma | well the new kde stylesheet is not the best ever |
| 18:43.15 | annma | here i agree with sredna |
| 18:43.16 | blacklotusdushit | sredna thats not what I mean...forget it |
| 18:43.20 | sredna | Hi annma :) |
| 18:43.24 | annma | hi sredna |
| 18:43.27 | annma | :) |
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| 18:44.21 | annma | coyctecm: i think that krita fonts now can be set bigger |
| 18:44.29 | annma | I buggged the devels about that |
| 18:44.47 | coyctecm | really? |
| 18:44.53 | annma | let me check |
| 18:44.59 | coyctecm | what version of koffice/krita? |
| 18:45.04 | annma | 1.6 |
| 18:45.07 | coyctecm | ok |
| 18:45.14 | coyctecm | i'll upgrade |
| 18:46.34 | bline | kde menu editor needs a search feature |
| 18:46.37 | sredna | Well, kde.org is not alone, but blindly following a trend based on a bad idea is stupid. |
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| 18:48.14 | annma | coyctecm: yes, it's a setting in Configure Krita |
| 18:48.30 | coyctecm | annma: great, thanks :) |
| 18:48.41 | annma | Configure Krita -> General -> Palette font size |
| 18:48.56 | annma | it's because of me that they did it |
| 18:48.59 | poopybutt | im not sure i understand the difference between beryl and compiz |
| 18:49.02 | annma | I am that persuasive |
| 18:49.09 | coyctecm | :) |
| 18:49.10 | poopybutt | anybody explain this, or point me to a link that explains |
| 18:49.13 | annma | ;) |
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| 18:52.20 | bododo | hi folks |
| 18:52.50 | bododo | i just updated to the lateste kde and I lost a lot of my menu items |
| 18:53.07 | bododo | can you please tell me how do i do to edit the menu? |
| 18:53.11 | bododo | a command? |
| 18:53.30 | sredna | bododo: Kmenuedit |
| 18:53.43 | bododo | sredna, thanks! :) |
| 18:53.49 | bododo | how about the look n'feel? |
| 18:54.08 | annma | K menu -> Settings -> Menu editor for KMenuEdit bododo |
| 18:54.15 | annma | KControl |
| 18:54.19 | annma | for look and feel |
| 18:54.40 | bododo | annma, thanks it wasn't there, but when i run it it shows |
| 18:54.49 | bododo | but i only got what i already see :( |
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| 18:55.53 | bododo | i remember there used to be a program that looks for programs and asks to add them to the menu |
| 18:55.59 | bododo | is it still available? |
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| 18:57.14 | annma | yes |
| 18:57.28 | annma | Menu Updating Tool in K Menu -> Settings |
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| 18:58.03 | bododo | not there :( |
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| 18:59.41 | annma | bododo: what distro? |
| 18:59.46 | bododo | FC5 |
| 18:59.50 | annma | i have KDE from KDE sources here |
| 19:00.02 | bododo | i used to build it from sources too |
| 19:00.04 | annma | so what I tell you is the true KDE |
| 19:00.11 | bododo | but now that i used yum... |
| 19:00.20 | annma | i build it from kde svn, not from a source-based distro |
| 19:01.05 | bododo | ok |
| 19:01.27 | bododo | no idea about that program that looks for other programs to add to the menu? |
| 19:01.51 | pinotree | bododo: kappfinder? |
| 19:01.52 | Tm_T | kappfinder? |
| 19:01.58 | Tm_T | pinotree: Mooh. |
| 19:02.25 | bododo | it may be this, but it doesn't run :( |
| 19:02.36 | bododo | i think the name is something like that |
| 19:03.17 | bododo | maybe the spell? |
| 19:03.35 | Tm_T | kappfinder, but you might need to install it first. ;) |
| 19:03.50 | bododo | oh! :( not included in kde itself? |
| 19:04.02 | pinotree | it is |
| 19:04.26 | bododo | but why can't i run it? |
| 19:04.37 | Tm_T | There's usually a lot of separated binary packages, so something is in by default and some are not. |
| 19:04.49 | bododo | yes |
| 19:04.54 | Tm_T | Dunno how it is in your system. |
| 19:04.59 | bododo | it took me over than 3 hours to update :( |
| 19:05.20 | Tm_T | Only? |
| 19:05.30 | bododo | over |
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| 19:05.36 | bododo | i'm on 128kilobits/s |
| 19:05.45 | annma | that's what it took me to get a minimal compiled kde |
| 19:05.48 | annma | intel core duo |
| 19:05.52 | bododo | compiled! but i used yum! |
| 19:06.00 | bododo | yeah! tou can brag! ;) |
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| 19:06.08 | annma | yeah, i was just showing of a bit |
| 19:06.13 | bododo | :D |
| 19:06.15 | Tm_T | bododo: Eh, 5 KB/s download when I upgraded to 3.5.5 I think. ;) |
| 19:06.19 | annma | sorry about that ;-) |
| 19:06.25 | bododo | :) |
| 19:06.30 | Tm_T | annma: =) |
| 19:06.36 | annma | hi Tm_T |
| 19:06.36 | bododo | so you don't find kappfinder |
| 19:06.51 | Tm_T | I do find it in my system, I installed it. |
| 19:06.51 | bododo | No Match for argument: kappfinder |
| 19:07.07 | annma | isn't it in kdebase? |
| 19:07.13 | Tm_T | annma: Should be. |
| 19:07.16 | annma | bododo: ask in #fedora about it |
| 19:07.24 | coyctecm | right click the menu icon--> edit menus |
| 19:07.32 | coyctecm | sorry |
| 19:07.35 | bododo | kmenu |
| 19:07.38 | coyctecm | wrong channel :) |
| 19:07.45 | bododo | i just added it, it wasn't in my menu |
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| 19:07.56 | Tm_T | Package: kappfinder Source: kdebase |
| 19:08.01 | *** part/#kde metalfan (n=metalfan@141.41.98.152) |
| 19:08.02 | Tm_T | That's what it is here. |
| 19:08.06 | bododo | well sorry guys, i didn't mean to distrub |
| 19:08.53 | bododo | well in "settings" menu i just have: 3 items |
| 19:09.02 | bododo | (got the french version) |
| 19:09.23 | annma | yes? i speak french |
| 19:09.38 | bododo | translated: hide toolbar, setup hotkeys, setup toolbar |
| 19:09.44 | bododo | ah yes? :) |
| 19:09.52 | annma | in the K Menu, bododo |
| 19:09.57 | bododo | so it's: cacher la barre d'outils |
| 19:10.00 | annma | click on K icon |
| 19:10.09 | bododo | ok the k menu |
| 19:10.14 | annma | therre's a Settings menu item |
| 19:10.16 | bododo | and then? |
| 19:10.24 | annma | i have my kde in english however |
| 19:10.33 | bododo | no, there isn't here |
| 19:10.46 | annma | what is there then? |
| 19:11.06 | bododo | other stuff: administration, developpement, games, desktop... |
| 19:11.26 | shadok | you need kmenuedit maybe |
| 19:11.37 | bododo | i have it running |
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| 19:11.47 | bododo | is setting associated to: kcontrol -caption "%c" %i %m ? |
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| 19:14.37 | bododo | ah yes! i think i got it! :) |
| 19:15.29 | bododo | it's in "Bureau" -> "tableau de bord" -> menus |
| 19:15.36 | bododo | (french) :) |
| 19:16.10 | annma | cool |
| 19:16.20 | bododo | yes! :) |
| 19:16.25 | bododo | thanks and sorry guys |
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| 19:17.48 | coyctecm | annma: this is great now :) I upgraded koffice 1.6 :) |
| 19:17.51 | bododo | is it that true that it's faster than 3.5.1? (that was my last vesrion) |
| 19:18.52 | annma | coyctecm: :)) |
| 19:19.06 | bododo | now where's my kappfinder? :) |
| 19:19.09 | annma | coyctecm: is the settings dialog in krita big or is it just me? |
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| 19:19.53 | coyctecm | annma: I think it's normal |
| 19:20.14 | annma | soemthing went crazy o my system |
| 19:20.54 | coyctecm | did you change theme? it messes up some dialogs... not always but somtimes |
| 19:21.00 | coyctecm | sometimes* |
| 19:21.23 | coyctecm | should be ok after logout |
| 19:21.38 | bododo | well, thanks guys! have a nice day/night :) |
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| 19:22.48 | Half-Left | evening |
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| 19:25.18 | annma | i keep plastik, coyctecm |
| 19:25.30 | annma | i often do screenshots so i must keep plastik |
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| 19:48.14 | oGALAXYo | http://fun.drno.de/pics/english/not_really_into_pokemon.png |
| 19:50.49 | Theory | wtf |
| 19:51.00 | Theory | someone is ripping from xkcd |
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| 19:54.52 | jbaloul | hi all |
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| 19:56.13 | jbaloul | i am using vpnc (kvpnc) to connect to a cisco router...i would like to share this connections with others on the network, act as a gateway...adding nat FW in /etc/sysctrl.conf does not work...am i missing something? |
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| 19:58.34 | poopybutt | anybody have experience with compiz? because after installing it went extremey slow. here is the error i got http://rafb.net/paste/results/dx5faQ10.html |
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| 19:58.41 | Kyral | Okay, whoever's idea to put MagnaTune into the new AmaroK should be hugged |
| 19:59.25 | oGALAXYo | poopybutt: you can ignore that error... since you run KDE you dont require this metacity crap |
| 19:59.26 | imachine | heyah |
| 19:59.31 | imachine | anyone familiar with JuK ? |
| 19:59.40 | Kyral | MagnaTune++ |
| 19:59.52 | imachine | it seems when i start it up, and launch one of the tunes in it, it just freezes for a sec or two then does nothing |
| 19:59.55 | Kyral | they rock (and I traditionally HATE online music stores and record labels) |
| 19:59.55 | imachine | artsd is working |
| 20:00.00 | oGALAXYo | poopybutt: metacity is in NO WAY related to KDE. |
| 20:00.13 | imachine | both same loonix versions on my laptop and my desktop, and on the laptop it does also hang a sec but then plays; not on the desktop tho |
| 20:00.16 | imachine | any ideas? |
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| 20:01.28 | poopybutt | oGALAXYo: oh, well my computer barely moved after i installed. i have an athlon 64 3200. i would think that would be ok |
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| 20:01.45 | poopybutt | and a radeon 9600 card, not great but should be capable i would think |
| 20:01.49 | oGALAXYo | poopybutt: well thats fine.. but not related to the answer i gave. |
| 20:01.57 | poopybutt | yeah i understand that |
| 20:02.04 | poopybutt | something must not have been working right |
| 20:02.14 | oGALAXYo | you run kde ? |
| 20:02.31 | poopybutt | yeah |
| 20:02.35 | poopybutt | 3.5.5 |
| 20:02.54 | oGALAXYo | ok |
| 20:02.58 | oGALAXYo | so you run kwin also |
| 20:03.06 | oGALAXYo | metacity is the default window manager for gnome.. |
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| 20:03.36 | *** join/#kde smileaf (n=smileaf@65-103-49-39.cdrr.qwest.net) |
| 20:03.41 | oGALAXYo | so i wonder why you get this error since you claim to run kde. |
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| 20:04.55 | poopybutt | yeah i dont understand |
| 20:05.54 | poopybutt | let me try installing through apt-get instead of a script |
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| 20:07.23 | SAS_Spidey01 | putz* |
| 20:08.40 | smileaf | at least it didn't take until now for you to realize DST is even in effect ;) |
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| 20:10.48 | oGALAXYo | i havent changed all my clocks so far.. |
| 20:10.49 | spamyboy | Pleas anyone click on this link (afiliat): http://www.tufat.com/aff.php?id=3138 (i need more 40 click to purcha one script) Thank you |
| 20:11.00 | oGALAXYo | this computer is still showing 22:11 |
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| 20:12.19 | poopybutt | after i install compiz, what do i need to do to use different features or new themes? |
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| 20:12.31 | poopybutt | do i need to restart kde and such? |
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| 20:13.36 | Mirrakor | is there a special channel for KMyMoney? |
| 20:14.07 | Sutoka | Mirrakor: i don't believe so |
| 20:14.09 | Half-Left | tapps on Sutoka 's shoulder |
| 20:14.42 | Half-Left | :/ |
| 20:14.49 | Mirrakor | any german KMyMoney users here? |
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| 20:16.45 | Mirrakor | I just wanted to know if they have a broken translation in 0.8.3 too |
| 20:17.12 | vesuv | Mirrakor: Wait, I check |
| 20:17.17 | vesuv | *I'll |
| 20:17.47 | Mirrakor | vesuv, in "Einstellungen -> Einrichten" |
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| 20:28.35 | scythe | hi |
| 20:28.56 | Sutoka | scythe: greetings |
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| 20:29.08 | vesuv | hiho |
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| 20:29.42 | scythe | does anyone know why knode doesn't download old postings? thunderbird downloads the last x (for example 350) messages. I want that too, under KNode. |
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| 20:31.45 | ypsila | good evening |
| 20:32.02 | magicmike | Anyone able to help with a display problem? |
| 20:32.16 | Sutoka | magicmike: what type of display problem? |
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| 20:33.41 | PhilRod | hi ypsila |
| 20:33.41 | magicmike | My display was set to 1280x768. Somehow it's switched to 640x480. When I try to change it it only allows me 640x480 - 640x350. It's an ATI radeon 7000. |
| 20:33.58 | Sutoka | magicmike: how are you trying to change it? |
| 20:34.17 | ypsila | hi PhilRod |
| 20:34.26 | magicmike | Through system settings display and then administrator mode. |
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| 20:36.41 | Sutoka | magicmike: system settings display? what distro are you running? |
| 20:37.15 | magicmike | It's Dapper Drake. |
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| 20:37.45 | pinotree | magicmike: that module is ubuntu-specific |
| 20:37.59 | pinotree | so, please ask in #ubuntu |
| 20:38.02 | magicmike | Well it's in K-menu. |
| 20:38.05 | Sutoka | magicmike: ask in #kubuntu or #ubuntu |
| 20:38.34 | magicmike | They don't know diddly in there. |
| 20:38.34 | Sutoka | magicmike: any app can be added to the kmenu |
| 20:38.45 | magicmike | The support there sucks. |
| 20:38.52 | magicmike | Okay. |
| 20:39.13 | Deformative | Hehe. |
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| 20:39.18 | Deformative | Ubuntu support. |
| 20:39.25 | Deformative | Syt |
| 20:39.29 | Deformative | Batter dying. |
| 20:39.34 | ypsila | I am searching for a program to allow price-comparing for about 100 articles |
| 20:39.50 | magicmike | Well, it may seem funny to you but it really is sad. Other than this problem I was starting to enjoy this op sys. |
| 20:40.10 | Deformative | Woot, made it to the power cable in time. |
| 20:40.11 | Deformative | =) |
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| 20:40.29 | Sutoka | Deformative: aren't laptops fun?!?!?! |
| 20:40.30 | ypsila | it is like everywhere, people ask questions and never give an answer back |
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| 20:40.39 | magicmike | But everytime you get one thing figured out something else makes you waste lots of time trying to re-configure. |
| 20:40.42 | Sutoka | magicmike: you might want to hand edit the xorg.conf file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf |
| 20:41.03 | Deformative | Magicmike, I spent all summer learning. |
| 20:41.11 | Deformative | Now I have a pretty good handle on things. |
| 20:41.25 | Deformative | Sutoka, <3 laptops. |
| 20:41.30 | ypsila | Deformative: but you share your experience :-) |
| 20:41.39 | ypsila | others won't |
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| 20:41.54 | magicmike | I have no problem learning. Some things are not covered in the wiki. |
| 20:42.19 | Deformative | Well, I would be the first to tell you, Ubuntu is the unix like os that you learn the least about unix. |
| 20:42.30 | ypsila | magicmike: true, and so many different systems out there, but after some month you get bored to the ever same questions |
| 20:42.47 | Deformative | I used ubutnu for a full 2 days and got bored because I couldn't do anything with it. |
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| 20:43.06 | Deformative | So then I went to elive, then debian, then gentoo, archlinux, and now free/dragonflyBSD |
| 20:43.26 | Theory | Ubuntu is an ancient african word meaning... |
| 20:43.31 | ypsila | Deformative: uuuuuuuh, that is quite a lot |
| 20:43.38 | magicmike | Whatever. I tried Freespire's live CD on another computer yesterday and it seemed mucher easier to work with and configure. |
| 20:43.49 | Sutoka | Theory: 'humanity towards others' IIRC |
| 20:43.52 | PhilRod | Theory: hehe, I love jokes that you don't even need the punchline for :-) |
| 20:44.00 | Deformative | Well, those are just the major ones I used, I used like slack for just a few hours to test some things between arch and gentoo. |
| 20:44.01 | SAS_Spidey01 | magicmike, try PC-BSD if you want easy |
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| 20:44.09 | magicmike | I just spent so much time getting this to work and didn't want to trash it just because of a damn display prob. |
| 20:44.21 | *** join/#kde mouse (n=claudio@host31-91-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:44.38 | Deformative | magicmike, with ubutnu? What work,,,, O.o |
| 20:44.42 | magicmike | I didn't say I wanted easy. I just want something that you can spend time using instead of always fixing. |
| 20:44.46 | Deformative | You just put in the cd and reboot. |
| 20:45.09 | *** join/#kde ProtectYaNeck (n=ProtectY@74.132.239.230) |
| 20:45.42 | ypsila | SAS_Spidey01: i can top that :-D |
| 20:45.45 | *** join/#kde nael (n=nael@81.57.62.96) |
| 20:45.47 | Theory | I started with Corel Linux. Do I lose? |
| 20:45.51 | SAS_Spidey01 | Well, I spend time apt-getting crap on Ubuntu, on PC-BSD I just do my work and relax |
| 20:45.55 | magicmike | Mandriva was no fun. |
| 20:46.07 | SAS_Spidey01 | Corel, now thats one I havn't heard in awhile |
| 20:46.16 | Theory | (First editionn) |
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| 20:46.37 | poopybutt | magicmike: are you still having the resolution problems |
| 20:46.45 | magicmike | Yes, I am. |
| 20:46.47 | Sutoka | i still can't stand the name 'mandriva' and can never actually call it that, i still call it 'mandrake' which was a far better name (they picked the WORST combination of mandrake and connectiva POSSIBLE) |
| 20:46.54 | SAS_Spidey01 | Nice, I've even seen Red Hat 7.x in my bosses collection |
| 20:47.09 | SAS_Spidey01 | Mandrake does have a better ring to it |
| 20:47.13 | NthDegree | condrake :p |
| 20:47.15 | Half-Left | Sutoka: yer, horrid |
| 20:47.17 | Theory | they were lawsuited no? |
| 20:47.19 | SAS_Spidey01 | lol NthDegree |
| 20:47.19 | poopybutt | try this, "fix-res 1024x768" in console and restart x with ctrl-alt-backspace |
| 20:47.21 | ypsila | Sutoka: rember the times when red hat was called rat head? |
| 20:47.30 | poopybutt | or whatever resolution you need |
| 20:47.36 | NthDegree | because it cons you out of cash :p |
| 20:47.43 | Theory | ypsila: "deadrat" no? |
| 20:47.55 | Sutoka | ypsila: yep, RedHat9 was my second linux (after mandrake 7.1 i went back to windows because of video card and dial-up problem) |
| 20:48.00 | ypsila | Theory: :-D I never used it |
| 20:48.04 | SAS_Spidey01 | I've never used Red Hat before, but I'm not in an IT dept. |
| 20:48.25 | Half-Left | Redhat 8 was my first |
| 20:48.25 | magicmike | Okay poop. I'll give that a try. Thanks. |
| 20:48.26 | Theory | I support a box running FC4 :-s |
| 20:48.26 | antik | I stopped usin redhat after their hilarious 7.0 release (broken gcc) |
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| 20:48.33 | poopybutt | well try the fix-res part first |
| 20:48.38 | SAS_Spidey01 | Debian and Slackware have been the only mishmashs I could agree with |
| 20:48.39 | poopybutt | and tell me what it says, ill tell you if it worked |
| 20:49.02 | SAS_Spidey01 | Gentoo is a temptation as is a LFS but I love FreeBSD to much |
| 20:49.22 | ypsila | suse 7 or 8 was my first and I hated it on the spot |
| 20:49.35 | poopybutt | im forced to use suse enterprise at work |
| 20:49.47 | *** join/#kde lnxkde (n=lnxkde@206.248.92.51) |
| 20:49.59 | magicmike | Hey poop do I need the " included? |
| 20:50.01 | ypsila | poopybutt: iiiiiiiiiiih, but still better than other things |
| 20:50.03 | Sutoka | SAS_Spidey01: gentoo/freebsd! |
| 20:50.13 | poopybutt | magicmike: no, leave out the quotes |
| 20:50.13 | Deformative | Better than being forced to use mac or windows. |
| 20:50.15 | *** join/#kde WindowsUninstall (n=WindowsU@kde/developer/bettio) |
| 20:50.23 | SAS_Spidey01 | The very first time I ever tried a Linux based OS was Knoppix, fell in love with shells instantly |
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| 20:50.28 | Sutoka | ypsila: try SuSE, i mean SUSE, i mean OpenSUSE 10.1! it ships with a broken package manager :-D |
| 20:50.30 | ypsila | Deformative: I agree |
| 20:50.33 | SAS_Spidey01 | Sutoka, Linux kernel, FreeBSD userland ? |
| 20:50.42 | magicmike | Well, I'm getting command not found without it. That's why I asked. |
| 20:51.03 | Sutoka | SAS_Spidey01: no, freebsd kernel, gentoo (gnu) userland |
| 20:51.09 | poopybutt | yeah, maybe ubuntu doesnt have that script, i thought i would give it a shot. works in debian |
| 20:51.09 | Deformative | Ew. |
| 20:51.10 | SAS_Spidey01 | Ugh |
| 20:51.13 | Deformative | Why on earth. |
| 20:51.25 | magicmike | I can't get Knoppix to boot from the CD on my puter. |
| 20:51.26 | Deformative | Sutoka, why gnu is uhh. =( |
| 20:51.27 | ypsila | Sutoka: my admin updated to suse 10.1 and he is as unhappy as one can be but since my upgrade to edgy wasn't a real "up" |
| 20:51.28 | SAS_Spidey01 | I've spent long enough porting my tcshrc file to GNU user land.... |
| 20:51.33 | poopybutt | ypsila: i like debian-sid specifically kanotix. best ive used so far i think |
| 20:51.38 | poopybutt | im a huge fan of apt-get |
| 20:51.52 | ypsila | poopybutt: apt-get is great |
| 20:51.52 | SAS_Spidey01 | I really like the Linux kernel but I don't care for the GNU user land |
| 20:52.07 | ypsila | SAS_Spidey01: you are right |
| 20:52.08 | SAS_Spidey01 | Yes we must listen to poopybutt on that hehe |
| 20:52.10 | antik | pinotree, you should start banning users already :) |
| 20:52.16 | benJIman | if only there were an op to kick the spammer, oh wait. |
| 20:52.30 | ypsila | off-topic is forbidden here? |
| 20:52.37 | pinotree | guess? |
| 20:52.38 | Deformative | Who cares what is on topic... >.> |
| 20:52.43 | pinotree | ME |
| 20:52.45 | Sutoka | ypsila: yes, when ops are awake at least |
| 20:52.46 | Deformative | Why? |
| 20:52.52 | Deformative | What is the point of it exactly. |
| 20:53.03 | pinotree | a kde user supporting channel |
| 20:53.06 | Sutoka | Deformative: pinotree is an op and likes to keep it on topic, i recommend you stay on topic |
| 20:53.07 | SAS_Spidey01 | What was the KDE Specific topic any way? My bannor doesn't say |
| 20:53.09 | magicmike | Linux is cool but there are too many versions and too much confusion for people converting from Windows or your everyday average computer user. |
| 20:53.09 | *** join/#kde aaron_k (n=aaron@vpn-wh.rz-zw.fh-kl.de) |
| 20:53.14 | aaron_k | Hi |
| 20:53.19 | Deformative | Yeah, we coudl be on topic when someone accually has a question. |
| 20:53.23 | Deformative | That would be support. |
| 20:53.30 | *** join/#kde carlosg (n=carlos@109.63.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt) |
| 20:53.38 | ypsila | Deformative: same on #kubuntu-de |
| 20:53.43 | pinotree | Deformative: that's not an excuse |
| 20:53.51 | pinotree | silence is better than foobar |
| 20:54.15 | SAS_Spidey01 | pinotree, is right, we should move over to a #random-chat channel |
| 20:54.16 | ypsila | pinotree: okay let's discuss how to get the date to the appropriate format - opera |
| 20:54.24 | Theory | mmm #off-topic |
| 20:54.35 | SAS_Spidey01 | ypsila, Opera is not a KDE program |
| 20:54.50 | ypsila | SAS_Spidey01: :-D are you shure? |
| 20:54.54 | Theory | ypsila: you're wanting to take your date to the opera? |
| 20:54.55 | PhilRod | ypsila: a date to the opera might be nice, but depends what's on |
| 20:54.59 | pinotree | ypsila: ot is Qt, not kde |
| 20:55.15 | pinotree | s/ot/it/ |
| 20:55.19 | antik | I have question: How long KDE 3.5.x support lifetime is? |
| 20:55.24 | thiago | antik: 0 |
| 20:55.30 | PhilRod | antik: as long as we feel like |
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| 20:55.32 | ypsila | Theory: only the german format of the date, not worth a discussion |
| 20:55.40 | Sutoka | antik: probably about a year more |
| 20:55.48 | Sutoka | antik: then more from the more slower moving distros |
| 20:55.49 | antik | so, it is dropped right after 4.0 release? |
| 20:55.51 | ypsila | apt: I know |
| 20:55.55 | apt | You know? |
| 20:55.56 | Sutoka | antik: no |
| 20:56.01 | Deformative | No offense, but that is kinda uhm, /me trys to think of the word, ridiculous I suppose, why would anyone stay in her to be support when they have nothing to talk about when no one is asking a question. |
| 20:56.03 | pinotree | ypsila: apt is a bot |
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| 20:56.12 | thiago | antik: no, bugfixes will be applied until we still have the time to do it |
| 20:56.12 | Sutoka | antik: don't expect anything other than bug fixes though |
| 20:56.12 | benJIman | antik: well dropped by whom? many distros have 7 year support contracts for kde 3.5.x still |
| 20:56.21 | thiago | antik: should be until around KDE 4.1 is in beta. |
| 20:56.26 | SAS_Spidey01 | Deformative, has a good point |
| 20:56.33 | pinotree | Deformative: for random chatting there are tons of channels out there |
| 20:56.37 | ypsila | pinotree: ah, shall I ask it some "nice" questions ? |
| 20:56.42 | pinotree | sure |
| 20:56.45 | PhilRod | antik: more verbosely: KDE doesn't officially define "support periods" like some do. We just work on what we feel like, when we feel like |
| 20:57.12 | Sutoka | antik: pretty much long as theres interest, kde 3.5.x will be supported |
| 20:57.13 | PhilRod | so, pragmatically, people will continue to fix 3.5 bugs until probably a couple of iterations of 4.0.x have been out, I guess |
| 20:57.20 | ypsila | is there any german kde channel? |
| 20:57.24 | pinotree | #kde.de |
| 20:57.58 | antik | but there is "official" patch releases or later all of em become "unofficial"? |
| 20:58.06 | *** join/#kde kyaneos (n=kyaneos@84.77.19.125) |
| 20:58.22 | Sutoka | antik: there will probably be official ones still |
| 20:58.23 | ypsila | pinotree: 10 users, forget that, I hoped to shift some specific people to a german channel |
| 20:58.34 | antik | ok |
| 20:58.37 | PhilRod | antik: not decided, but there will probably be a few more 3.5.x releases |
| 20:58.43 | PhilRod | as long as there are changes that warrant it |
| 20:58.53 | benJIman | and distributors will be supporting it for years to come |
| 20:58.56 | Sutoka | antik: theres a 3.5.6 coming in january (estimated date i believe) |
| 20:59.24 | antik | any plan to port 3.5.x to Qt4? |
| 20:59.29 | pinotree | no |
| 20:59.31 | Sutoka | antik: thats KDE4 |
| 20:59.33 | pinotree | that will be kde4 |
| 20:59.39 | ypsila | anyone familiar to book-keeping? |
| 20:59.43 | Sutoka | antik: and thats pretty much what is in SVN right now |
| 21:00.12 | vesuv | Isn't 3.8.0 pretty much it? |
| 21:00.22 | thiago | vesuv: 3.80.2 |
| 21:00.22 | pinotree | "3.80.x" |
| 21:00.27 | vesuv | whatever ,) |
| 21:00.28 | ypsila | I'm still searching for a simple and easy program to compare prices by deliverers (<- does not seem good english) |
| 21:00.30 | thiago | 3.80 = KDE 4.0 alphas |
| 21:00.36 | Sutoka | vesuv: 3.80.2 is the version numbers being used for the kde4 development snapshots |
| 21:00.45 | vesuv | yeah, ok. |
| 21:00.48 | *** join/#kde fristi (n=fristi@cc380184-a.groni1.gr.home.nl) |
| 21:01.13 | vesuv | ypsila: define book-keepin, please |
| 21:01.17 | antik | I got lot's of problem reports from CUPS users- any good alternative to this printing technology? |
| 21:01.22 | vesuv | +g |
| 21:01.23 | Sutoka | thiago: 'alphas' or 'pre-pre-pre-pre-alphas'? |
| 21:01.25 | thiago | antik: no |
| 21:01.32 | thiago | antik: CUPS is the best available |
| 21:01.32 | *** join/#kde blacklotus (n=blacklot@p508BC0BE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:01.37 | thiago | Sutoka: right, pre-alpha :-) |
| 21:01.47 | Sutoka | antik: no, CUPS is used everywhere on pretty much all non-windows platforms, including OS X |
| 21:02.16 | antik | but on OSX it just works, not so on other *NIXes |
| 21:02.16 | ypsila | vesuv: I do not need a book-keeping program for financial purposes, I just would like to have a program to compare prices from different suppliers |
| 21:02.24 | thiago | antik: it just works on Linux too |
| 21:02.46 | thiago | antik: it's the same program on all of the platforms |
| 21:02.49 | vesuv | ypsila: And it needs to be an app? Isn't a website more pratical for this kind of a task? |
| 21:03.02 | ypsila | antik: any specific printer? ever tried gutenprint? |
| 21:03.06 | Deformative | Depends on how you see osx. |
| 21:03.20 | Deformative | If you see it as darwin things don't "Just work" |
| 21:03.23 | antik | I got nothing but troubles installing printers in CUPS even with "fully supported" ones |
| 21:03.29 | Deformative | That would be like seeing ubuntu as debian. |
| 21:03.39 | SAS_Spidey01 | Antik uses FreeBSD |
| 21:03.47 | Sutoka | antik: what configuration utility are you using? |
| 21:03.58 | ypsila | vesuv: I don't know, I should be able to decide, whether xy in bottle is cheaper than z in a can |
| 21:04.28 | *** join/#kde _rene (n=rene@co405934-a.almel1.ov.home.nl) |
| 21:04.36 | ypsila | antik: I do own a very exotic thermalprinter, and gutenprint did it |
| 21:05.28 | antik | I use what is come with KDE by default |
| 21:05.50 | Sutoka | antik: kcontrol -> peripherals -> printers, that thing? |
| 21:05.55 | antik | yes |
| 21:07.10 | antik | I don't understand why CUPS have to run as service- it can't launch automatically? |
| 21:07.11 | vesuv | ypsila: As I see it, it would be easier just to look for the cheapest price for a product? In total, I mean |
| 21:07.59 | thiago | antik: no |
| 21:08.04 | *** join/#kde charlie (n=charlie@66.112.109.54.dyn.centurytel.net) |
| 21:08.07 | thiago | antik: though... inetd |
| 21:08.11 | thiago | that might work |
| 21:08.28 | *** join/#kde hcstfrimS (n=smir@p57A7F604.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:08.38 | antik | have to try it out that way then |
| 21:08.40 | Sutoka | antik: having it running as a service is probably the easiest way, its what all OSes (including Windows and OS X) does for their printing system |
| 21:08.44 | *** join/#kde sorush20 (n=sorush20@82-43-184-143.cable.ubr07.newm.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 21:09.01 | *** join/#kde halcyonCorsair (n=epahl@galaxy.liverton.net.nz) |
| 21:09.19 | antik | but printer is idle 99,9% of the time CUPS consumes too much memory |
| 21:09.28 | sorush20 | I can't view the date in kde 3.5.5. |
| 21:09.34 | *** join/#kde aaron__k (n=aaron@vpn-wh.rz-zw.fh-kl.de) |
| 21:09.38 | sorush20 | on my desktop taskbar |
| 21:10.04 | thiago | antik: it'll be simply swapped out |
| 21:10.04 | Sutoka | sorush20: have you added the clock applet? |
| 21:10.05 | sorush20 | configureing display and check data doesn't work.. I have kubuntu edgy |
| 21:10.23 | sorush20 | I can see hhmmss but not the date |
| 21:10.42 | Sutoka | sorush20: that sounds rather odd |
| 21:10.59 | sorush20 | yes very |
| 21:11.05 | antik | I can see date only with "local timezone" |
| 21:11.24 | ypsila | date! ha! |
| 21:11.33 | antik | If I select "Europe/Tallinn" then I see "Tallinn" instead of "date" |
| 21:11.44 | Sutoka | antik: thats because if you change the timezone you're viewing it'll use the 'date' spot to show the location |
| 21:11.45 | ypsila | cool |
| 21:12.12 | Sutoka | sorush20: can you view the time? |
| 21:12.13 | antik | and where is 12h/24h switch? |
| 21:12.32 | *** join/#kde UnionPivo (n=union@clj8-137.dial-up.arnes.si) |
| 21:12.34 | smileaf | regional & accessibility section of kcontrol |
| 21:12.39 | antik | I remember it from older KDE versions but it disappeared in 3.x |
| 21:12.47 | Sutoka | antik: right mouse click on clock -> date & time format -> time & dates tab -> change time format |
| 21:12.48 | sorush20 | antik: I think we have the same problemm.. I just swiched to local time zone and could view the date but on the europe london time zone could not.. |
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| 21:13.03 | sorush20 | Sutoka: yes.. |
| 21:13.09 | Sutoka | sorush20: you're not supposed to set your local time zone through that |
| 21:13.26 | smileaf | antik: Country/Region & Language -> Times & Dates tab |
| 21:13.27 | Sutoka | sorush20: adjusting the time zone doesn't change your system's actual time |
| 21:13.30 | ypsila | Sutoka: that is exactly what i tried to do, without result |
| 21:13.31 | *** join/#kde ilj_ (n=ilj@195.3.244.224) |
| 21:13.48 | Sutoka | ypsila: you have to restart kde or restart kicker for it to take effect |
| 21:13.57 | thiago | "dcop kicker kicker restart" |
| 21:14.18 | ypsila | ok, i'll give it a chance |
| 21:14.23 | antik | smileaf: it shows me anyway 11:14 instead of 23:14 |
| 21:14.24 | sorush20 | so what should I do ? |
| 21:14.56 | antik | I can see right time format only after I install langpack... |
| 21:14.57 | Sutoka | sorush20: set it to 'local timezone' and set your time zone appropriately system wide |
| 21:15.19 | ypsila | thiago: wow, thank you very much |
| 21:15.30 | smileaf | antik: and you set the time format to: HH:MM:SS and restarted kicker? |
| 21:15.40 | antik | yes |
| 21:15.50 | antik | still 11:15 |
| 21:16.02 | smileaf | umm... 11:15 am or pm{ |
| 21:16.04 | smileaf | ?* |
| 21:16.17 | antik | I don't use am/pm |
| 21:16.24 | Sutoka | antik: does your system think its 11 in the morning? |
| 21:16.26 | sorush20 | how do I set time zone appropriately to london uk system wide? |
| 21:16.27 | antik | 24h is only way |
| 21:16.39 | *** join/#kde linescanner (n=andy@62.121.26.69) |
| 21:16.44 | Sutoka | sorush20: that depends on your distro and is a question for #yourdistro |
| 21:16.45 | antik | # date |
| 21:16.45 | antik | Mon Nov 6 23:16:44 EET 2006 |
| 21:16.46 | sasq | KDE treats my twinview setup as one large screen instead of 2 separate - anyone know what is wrong? |
| 21:16.58 | Sutoka | sasq: what distro? |
| 21:16.59 | sasq | startx with windowmaker works like it should |
| 21:17.02 | sasq | gentoo |
| 21:17.02 | antik | my system reports proper time |
| 21:17.10 | benJIman | sasq: maybe you've built kde without xinerama support, usually happens to Gentoo users |
| 21:17.11 | Sutoka | sasq: is the xinerama use flag set system wide? |
| 21:17.53 | smileaf | antik: might be a distro bug or something. I'm using 24hr here.. working great :/ |
| 21:17.53 | Sutoka | sasq: if the system was built with the xinerama use flag, then in kcontrol -> peripherals -> display -> multiple monitors tab -> and adjust to how you want it to be |
| 21:17.55 | benJIman | sasq: have fun rebuilding Qt and all of your KDE apps, ahh the joys of gentoo |
| 21:17.58 | sasq | xinerama is on. recently installed latest kdebase so it should be in there |
| 21:18.13 | *** join/#kde kelvie (n=kelvie@128.189.232.182) |
| 21:18.25 | sasq | yeah I dont have a multiple monitors tab so apparently I need to rebuild |
| 21:18.33 | sasq | but if its not kdebase then what is it? |
| 21:18.39 | antik | I already told it starts working properly after my kde estonian languaga package is installed- impossible to set to 24h with US lang |
| 21:18.40 | benJIman | you need to build Qt with support first |
| 21:18.45 | benJIman | then rebuild all of KDE against the rebuilt Qt |
| 21:18.50 | sasq | yuck |
| 21:18.57 | Sutoka | sasq: kcontrol and kwin probably |
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| 21:19.12 | Sutoka | sasq: yes and qt needs it also, and must be first |
| 21:19.12 | benJIman | sasq: enjoy gentoo. |
| 21:19.17 | sasq | ill just continue running windowmaker for now |
| 21:19.22 | smileaf | antik: so it works except for when your using a US Lang?? |
| 21:19.35 | sasq | benJIman: whats your distro reckomendation? |
| 21:19.39 | *** part/#kde ypsila (n=opera@p54AA4BF2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:19.51 | benJIman | sasq: gentoo is fine if you don't mind having to wait a day to recompile because you forgot a vital use flag. |
| 21:20.28 | antik | I can set time with "adjust date & time" and it shows proper time 23:20:22 now but kicker shows 11:20 |
| 21:20.30 | sasq | yeah thats the downside of source distros. the upside is stuff usually works |
| 21:20.55 | sasq | i dont know if its better now but with binary distros there where always dependency problems with library versions etc |
| 21:21.05 | sasq | but ive been running gentoo for 1-2 years now |
| 21:21.06 | Sutoka | antik: run 'dcop kicker kicker restart' and see if it shows the right time |
| 21:21.30 | *** join/#kde tzbishop (n=tzbishop@200-204-183-13.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 21:21.30 | thiago | sasq: the same problem applies to source-based distros too |
| 21:21.54 | antik | dcop kicker kicker restart |
| 21:21.54 | antik | DCOPClient::attachInternal. Attach failed Could not open network socket |
| 21:21.54 | antik | ERROR: Couldn't attach to DCOP server! |
| 21:22.06 | sasq | thiago: rarely happens for me... |
| 21:22.10 | thiago | did you run that in a konsole terminal, antik? |
| 21:22.13 | thiago | sasq: to me either. |
| 21:22.22 | antik | I should run it on xterm? |
| 21:22.28 | thiago | antik: where else? |
| 21:22.41 | tzbishop | How could I do to open Konqueror with a determined width/ height? |
| 21:22.45 | Sutoka | revdep-rebuild :-D |
| 21:22.49 | antik | sry, I pasted it into terminal |
| 21:22.54 | thiago | tzbishop: -geometry |
| 21:22.56 | PhilRod | tzbishop: konqueror -geometry whaever |
| 21:22.57 | sasq | with source you always use the libs you have. with bin you may have compatible libs but since the versions dont match up it wont run anyway |
| 21:23.08 | thiago | antik: right. A terminal running inside your KDE session :-) |
| 21:23.23 | thiago | sasq: no |
| 21:23.30 | thiago | sasq: with source, you still need the proper versions |
| 21:23.34 | antik | wow, now I see 23:23 |
| 21:23.42 | smileaf | thiago: not as strict tho.. for instance lets say you have to change to a different package that does the exact same thing and you have a core componet that depends on it. in a binary based distro they'd force you to uninstall half your system just to do this. not fun. |
| 21:23.46 | *** join/#kde logixoul (n=logixoul@85.187.223.202) |
| 21:23.55 | thiago | sasq: the only difference between source and binary-based distros is that you don't have to compile on the binary ones. |
| 21:23.57 | sasq | how is gnome with multiple monitors? |
| 21:23.59 | thiago | sasq: the rest applies |
| 21:24.11 | thiago | smileaf: no |
| 21:24.19 | thiago | smileaf: they wouldn't, unless they've done a bad packaging |
| 21:24.20 | antik | this is somekind of cache problem then? (24h format') |
| 21:24.41 | sasq | thiago: dont agree - when there is an error in the dependency hiearchy on a binary distro you usually have more problems than with source - cause with source it might work anyway |
| 21:24.55 | Sutoka | antik: no, the clock applet just has to be restarted for the changes to take effect |
| 21:25.00 | thiago | sasq: with binary it might work anyway too |
| 21:25.10 | thiago | sasq: the dependency information is not part of the source code. Or of the binary program. |
| 21:25.12 | antik | but I haven't changed anything :( |
| 21:25.16 | thiago | sasq: it's meta-data: it's part of the packaging. |
| 21:25.26 | sasq | i know, thats the thing |
| 21:25.26 | thiago | sasq: so dependency resolution is only as good as the packaging |
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| 21:25.35 | thiago | regardless of whether it's source or binary |
| 21:25.37 | logixoul | this might not be the perfect channel to ask, but: What do the 'user%', 'system%', 'vmsize', 'vmrss' and 'nice' columns in ksysguard's process monitor represent? |
| 21:25.46 | sasq | but a configure script is usually much better at adapting to the current system |
| 21:25.51 | sasq | than a prebuilt binary |
| 21:26.09 | PhilRod | so, pragmatically, people will continue to fix 3.5 bugs until probably a couple of iterations of 4.0.x have been out, I guess~memusage |
| 21:26.12 | PhilRod | oops |
| 21:26.16 | PhilRod | ~memusage |
| 21:26.24 | apt | extra, extra, read all about it, memusage is http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=175419 and http://developer.kde.org/documentation/other/shared_memory.html |
| 21:26.24 | koala_man | there's a difference between a source based package manager and just source |
| 21:26.24 | tzbishop | How can I open Konqueror with 900x650 geometry on Home Folder with Metabar opened? |
| 21:26.24 | thiago | logixoul: % of CPU time spent in user code; spent inside the system doing tasks for that process, the virtual memory total size, the virtual memory resident set size and the niceness |
| 21:26.24 | sasq | as long as all dependency info is 100% correct source and bin should work the same |
| 21:26.24 | smileaf | thiago: that was actually why I left binary based distro 3 years ago.. I got tired of that case arising. happened in cases like upgrading kde. 1 program depended on kdelibs 2.2.2 and the other kdelib 3.0 which couldn't coexist. several other cases like that happened on several occations. |
| 21:26.36 | PhilRod | logixoul: those apt links might help |
| 21:26.43 | thiago | sasq: yes, true, but we're not talking about configure scripts. We're talking about dependencies. |
| 21:26.52 | Sutoka | logixoul: user = cpu time spent in userspace, system = cpu time spent in the kernel, vmsize = total virtual memory (pretty useless), vmrss (memory usage, very misleading), nice = niceness of process (higher the number, more likely to give up the processor to other programs) |
| 21:26.57 | thiago | sasq: there is one advantage, though, about building: if you don't want a feature, you don't need it. |
| 21:26.59 | vesuv | tzbishop: Only on your Home Folder? |
| 21:27.08 | tzbishop | no. on all folders |
| 21:27.15 | sasq | thiago: like I said, its only when dependencies are not correct when source is better |
| 21:27.20 | vesuv | You can set your Konqueror to open it self every time with 900*650 |
| 21:27.35 | Renze | tzbishop: set it how you want, and save your filemanagement profile |
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| 21:27.55 | sasq | when=that |
| 21:28.01 | *** join/#kde Endler (n=len@c-24-118-6-25.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 21:28.01 | PhilRod | tzbishop: and click on "save window size in profile" |
| 21:28.08 | vesuv | tzbishop: Left, upper corner -> Folder symbol -> Advanced -> Special Application Settings |
| 21:28.10 | Sutoka | tzbishop: setup a view profile that defaults to your home folder with metabar open then open konqueror to that view profile (generally 'file browser' should do that actually) |
| 21:28.49 | smileaf | binary distros are great for installing quick and for light installs. |
| 21:29.00 | *** join/#kde _al_ (n=al@176-232.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi) |
| 21:29.28 | sasq | hmmm - doesnt kde apps link dynamically to Qt ? so shouldnt I just need to rebuild Qt ? |
| 21:29.28 | Desintegr | source distros are great for lifelong installs :) |
| 21:29.50 | Sutoka | sasq: some have to be relinked to qt (like the styles) |
| 21:29.52 | Theory | /part #distro-wars |
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| 21:30.09 | pinotree | sasq: just rebuild Qt |
| 21:30.15 | sasq | ill try that |
| 21:30.17 | smileaf | sasq: not if certain support needs to be built into a kde app that wasn't present in qt when it was built |
| 21:30.28 | logixoul | thiago: does 'user code' mean 'code not ran as root'? |
| 21:30.31 | thiago | sasq: rebuilding Qt with the same options shouldn't require rebuilding anything else |
| 21:30.38 | thiago | logixoul: no, it means "non-kernel code" |
| 21:30.42 | thiago | logixoul: as in "userland" |
| 21:30.47 | Sutoka | logixoul: user code = code not ran as the kernel |
| 21:30.49 | Desintegr | Theory: every distro is great for everyone, but only one is great for me |
| 21:30.50 | sasq | i have been considering a switch to a binary distro, just dont know which. |
| 21:30.52 | logixoul | aha |
| 21:30.56 | Sutoka | s/as/in/ |
| 21:31.09 | thiago | logixoul: root is, after all, a user, though a special one |
| 21:31.16 | sasq | something that _just_ _works_ :) |
| 21:31.30 | Sutoka | sasq: i'd recommend the /dev/null distro |
| 21:31.49 | smileaf | Theory: I don't recall a distro even being mentioned. other than the certain types of distros and their strengths and weaknesses |
| 21:32.28 | logixoul | i see |
| 21:32.31 | tzbishop | vesuv: thank you VERY much! :) |
| 21:32.42 | tzbishop | i found it all ;) |
| 21:33.13 | vesuv | np |
| 21:33.21 | logixoul | PhilRod: is the VIRT mentioned in the gentoo link the same as ksysguard's VmSize? |
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| 21:34.26 | logixoul | yes, i think it is. |
| 21:35.20 | Endler | What is the kerryrc syntax to change the shortcut launch key from f12 to something else? |
| 21:35.41 | PhilRod | no idea sorry, logixoul |
| 21:35.57 | thiago | Endler: launch key of what? |
| 21:36.13 | Endler | Oops :) Kerry |
| 21:36.34 | logixoul | Endler: can't set it there |
| 21:36.35 | thiago | Endler: Kerry doesn't launch Kerry |
| 21:37.16 | vesuv | Mh, funny, in a politica context. |
| 21:37.18 | *** join/#kde ]harlekin[ (n=harlekin@p508E789E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:37.20 | vesuv | *political |
| 21:37.29 | ]harlekin[ | hi |
| 21:37.37 | logixoul | thiago: kerry has a 'show main kerry window' shortcut |
| 21:37.41 | logixoul | PhilRod: thanks |
| 21:37.42 | Endler | Setting it via the UI is not working for me. It let me enter a new key but only shows in for a second, then it disappears and it it doesn't save the change. |
| 21:37.53 | logixoul | works here (suse) |
| 21:38.09 | thiago | logixoul: so it's already running |
| 21:38.19 | logixoul | thiago: yes |
| 21:38.41 | Endler | So where does it save the change if you change F12 to something else? |
| 21:39.03 | thiago | is that a standard KDE "Configure Shortcuts" dialog? |
| 21:39.29 | logixoul | yes |
| 21:39.44 | Endler | I checked the normal kde shortcuts and Kerry does not have anything set there |
| 21:39.56 | thiago | should be in a .rc file in ~/.kde/share/apps/kerry |
| 21:39.59 | Endler | Yet pops up it does when I press F12 :) |
| 21:40.10 | maxell | hi there. |
| 21:40.17 | logixoul | thiago: not in ~/.kde/share/config/? |
| 21:40.24 | maxell | is there any customer-relationship management tool for kde? |
| 21:40.31 | *** part/#kde linescanner (n=andy@62.121.26.69) |
| 21:40.46 | maxell | like genesisworld for windows |
| 21:40.48 | thiago | logixoul: right |
| 21:41.07 | thiago | logixoul: shortcut configuration as well as toolbars isn't config |
| 21:41.11 | maxell | i want to select a "customer" right click and make an document from a template |
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| 21:41.18 | *** join/#kde BlackHand (n=yonsy@200.106.106.75) |
| 21:41.43 | ]harlekin[ | do sombody know how to make ksirc transparent |
| 21:41.43 | logixoul | thiago: so config are only app-specific stuff saved via kconfig? |
| 21:41.58 | thiago | logixoul: yes |
| 21:41.59 | logixoul | ]harlekin[: xgl/aiglx/luminocity? |
| 21:42.03 | logixoul | thiago: thanks |
| 21:42.08 | ]harlekin[ | lol |
| 21:42.30 | ]harlekin[ | no i want no real transperacy |
| 21:42.42 | logixoul | Sutoka: thanks |
| 21:42.45 | *** join/#kde TheCan (n=thecan@dslb-084-056-146-092.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:42.56 | logixoul | ]harlekin[: then what? |
| 21:43.04 | TheCan | hi - is there any way to prevent an application running in fullscreen mode from minimizing itself? |
| 21:43.11 | *** join/#kde Belegdol (n=jsikorsk@212.191.172.124) |
| 21:43.26 | logixoul | TheCan: "itself"? which app minimizes *itself*? |
| 21:43.28 | Theory | TheCan: special window settings force fullscreen? |
| 21:43.37 | TheCan | lilalinux, TheCan: nxclient especially |
| 21:43.53 | ]harlekin[ | i want only that ksirc get the background dates and set this as ksirc background |
| 21:44.01 | *** join/#kde morbid88 (n=morbid@84.228.122.94) |
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| 21:45.35 | morbid88 | hi. Anyone here use multiple languages? I'm having trouble with keybaord shortcuts. |
| 21:45.52 | logixoul | morbid88: i do and i have the problems too |
| 21:45.54 | Sutoka | morbid88: yes |
| 21:46.01 | Sutoka | is one non-latin based? |
| 21:46.14 | *** join/#kde sIbOk (n=sNOUbOR@56.Red-80-36-227.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:46.23 | Sutoka | like katakana characters in japanese (コãƒãƒ©ãƒ) |
| 21:46.48 | logixoul | maxell: what does a C-RM tool do in short? genesisworld.com doesn't tell me easily |
| 21:46.54 | morbid88 | more like Hebrew, but it should be the same idea. |
| 21:47.04 | logixoul | so what's the problem? |
| 21:47.04 | morbid88 | my shortcuts don't work. |
| 21:47.08 | Endler | All I see is a kerryrc file under the congfig dir. If its not stored there or with the rest of the KDE shortcuts, then where? |
| 21:47.13 | logixoul | morbid88: none of them? |
| 21:47.15 | morbid88 | The default shortcuts, CTRL-ALT-K switches to Hebrew. |
| 21:47.20 | morbid88 | But then I don't have a "K" anymore. |
| 21:47.21 | Sutoka | morbid88, logixoul: in kcontrol -> regional & acces. -> keyboard layout -> select a non-latin based layout and then tick 'include latin layout' then apply for each non-latin layout |
| 21:47.23 | morbid88 | so I can't switch back! |
| 21:47.48 | morbid88 | whoa. Gotta check that. |
| 21:47.55 | TheCan | Theory, logixoul: how can i match the windows ONLY by title with the window-specific settings? |
| 21:48.03 | Sutoka | ãƒ! |
| 21:48.16 | logixoul | нÑмам предÑтава вÑъщноÑÑ‚. |
| 21:48.35 | thiago | morbid88: make sure your Hebrew layout has the "Include Latin layout" mark |
| 21:48.37 | Renze | damnit, I can't enter tengwar elvish yet :/ |
| 21:48.47 | logixoul | alol |
| 21:48.47 | Theory | TheCan: mark window class an window role as unimportant (in the drop down boxes) |
| 21:48.48 | Sutoka | thiago: beat ya to it! |
| 21:48.52 | morbid88 | thiago, Sutoka: thanks! |
| 21:48.55 | Theory | and select all window types |
| 21:48.59 | morbid88 | That worked that out :-) |
| 21:49.16 | Theory | but I don't recommend this |
| 21:49.19 | morbid88 | now that means I can use SHIFT to type english, as well! |
| 21:49.19 | MinceR | is tengwar even in unicode? |
| 21:49.29 | thiago | MinceR: not yet. |
| 21:49.39 | morbid88 | where's tengwar from? |
| 21:49.42 | MinceR | i'm guessing it won't make it into the BMP |
| 21:49.44 | Renze | middle earth |
| 21:49.48 | thiago | morbid88: Tolkien |
| 21:49.57 | thiago | MinceR: definitely not BMP |
| 21:50.23 | logixoul | http://std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n1641/n1641.htm |
| 21:50.24 | TheCan | Theory, ah now it seems to get it. but i.e. i selected "minimzed" to force and i still can minimize the window manually |
| 21:50.42 | morbid88 | oh, right. I knew that. just checking to see if you did. |
| 21:51.13 | morbid88 | but I still can't get the xkb shortcuts to work. I'd much rather use ALT-SHIFT to switch, it's what I'm used to from Windows. |
| 21:51.33 | logixoul | Sutoka: i don't have a 'include latin layout' there |
| 21:51.43 | Endler | I don't have a ~/.kde/share/apps/kerry. Maybe that's the problem. |
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| 21:51.53 | thiago | MinceR: according to http://www.unicode.org/pending/pending.html, Tengwar is in "Early Committee Review" |
| 21:51.58 | thiago | MinceR: and Cirth is ahead of it |
| 21:52.00 | Sutoka | morbid88: alt+shift is only modifiers, thats not really a valid shortcut |
| 21:52.02 | logixoul | Endler: neither do i |
| 21:52.11 | TheCan | TheCan, wow thanks a lot!! Seems to be working now....finally it seems like a workardound for the terribly annoying window minimizing bug in the nxclient |
| 21:52.29 | Endler | Well, it must be stored somewhere. :) |
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| 21:52.40 | morbid88 | Sutoka: it worked fine until I added the layout icon. |
| 21:52.40 | thiago | MinceR: wait, the other way around. Tengwar is ahead. |
| 21:52.52 | Theory | force minimize on/off seems a bit buggy :-s |
| 21:52.56 | Theory | force fullscreen should work though |
| 21:53.07 | morbid88 | logixoul: if you select the language, the checkbox should show up. |
| 21:53.26 | logixoul | morbid88: if you're ready to abandon alt OR shift as a modifier you can use alt-shift as a combo ;) |
| 21:53.44 | MinceR | ic |
| 21:53.52 | smileaf | morbid88: have you tried using the F keys as a replacement for latin letters? |
| 21:54.01 | logixoul | morbid88: indeed, thanks |
| 21:54.03 | morbid88 | smileaf: doing what? |
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| 21:54.17 | morbid88 | smileaf: I've only got 12 of them and I need 26, I think. |
| 21:54.24 | morbid88 | last time I counted. |
| 21:54.45 | morbid88 | logixoul: so that means I wouldn't be able to use SHIFT-char as a shortcut? |
| 21:55.06 | TheCan | okay now i got one more question - how can i actually make the desktop icons small in kde 3.5.5 ? |
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| 21:55.55 | logixoul | morbid88: and you wouldn't be able to use shift-anything as a shortcut, nor shift-char as a capital char |
| 21:56.25 | smileaf | TheCan: Apperence & Themes -> Icons -> Advance tab |
| 21:56.25 | vesuv | TheCan: KControl -> Appearance & Themes -> Icons |
| 21:56.36 | Theory | what they said |
| 21:57.00 | logixoul | morbid88: either that or you ditch alt |
| 21:57.08 | TheCan | smacnay, vesuv: thx a lot! I just wondered why i couldnt find it in the konqueror settings |
| 21:57.27 | morbid88 | logixoul: but before I installed the additional layouts, I used the default settings from the installation. During setup I'd chosen an extra language, and everything was fine, alt-shift worked great. |
| 21:57.30 | *** join/#kde kakarot (n=kakarot@249.Red-83-38-31.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:57.38 | morbid88 | logixoul: until I tried adding the layour icon. |
| 21:57.38 | logixoul | TheCan: because the user doesn't relate konq to kdesktop? |
| 21:57.50 | *** join/#kde mustasj (n=paul@paul.tenfjord.net) |
| 21:57.58 | TheCan | logixoul, then i'm propably "the" wrong user :) |
| 21:58.12 | logixoul | s/user/luser/ then ;) |
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| 21:58.23 | Theory | slightly confusing it's not under desktop settings |
| 21:58.52 | logixoul | agree |
| 21:59.19 | logixoul | yup |
| 21:59.47 | morbid88 | I'll just ahve to assign it to ALT-Z. That's as close to shift as it gets. |
| 22:00.34 | oGALAXYo | i know its quite OT here.. but are there any squid experts around here ? |
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| 22:00.57 | Renze | mmmmm... calamari... |
| 22:01.14 | Sutoka | Renze: you gotta stick to your cat puke diet! |
| 22:01.18 | logixoul | thiago: funny, i can't find any shortcut settings in ~/.kde/share/apps |
| 22:01.26 | logixoul | thiago: can you give an example? |
| 22:01.42 | Renze | Sutoka: you can keep all the cat puke... I'm eating food :P |
| 22:01.49 | thiago | logixoul: which application do you remember changing a shortcut in? |
| 22:02.33 | logixoul | thiago: okay, found some in amarok's directory |
| 22:02.44 | logixoul | thanks |
| 22:03.52 | morbid88 | well, thansk for your help all. |
| 22:03.56 | morbid88 | and good night. |
| 22:04.09 | logixoul | Endler: kfind is looking for it as we speak |
| 22:04.11 | *** join/#kde UnionPivo (n=union@clj8-137.dial-up.arnes.si) |
| 22:04.15 | logixoul | bye morbid88 |
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| 22:04.54 | logixoul | hey morbid88! |
| 22:05.03 | Endler | Thanks logixoul. :) |
| 22:05.09 | logixoul | which is your distro? |
| 22:05.17 | logixoul | morbid88^ |
| 22:05.21 | Endler | Frugalware |
| 22:05.39 | logixoul | was asking morbid88 |
| 22:05.52 | vesuv | Hm, out of curiousity, I'm lurking in #gnome now. As soon as somebody makes an version request on me, I'm gonna die, I guess. ,) |
| 22:06.11 | logixoul | what's a version request? |
| 22:06.12 | *** part/#kde morbid88 (n=morbid@84.228.122.94) |
| 22:06.33 | sasq | christ QT takes long to compile... |
| 22:06.37 | vesuv | logixoul: |
| 22:06.38 | vesuv | [23:06] [CTCP] Sending CTCP-VERSION request to logixoul. |
| 22:06.38 | vesuv | [23:06] [CTCP] Received CTCP-VERSION reply from logixoul: Konversation 1.0 Build 3170 (C) 2002-2006 by the Konversation team |
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| 22:07.03 | logixoul | aha thanks vesuvb |
| 22:07.07 | logixoul | s/vb/v/ |
| 22:07.08 | vesuv | :) |
| 22:07.44 | logixoul | Endler: found it |
| 22:07.50 | scast | i wish i know more about c++ to fix all the annoyances i get with kword. |
| 22:07.53 | logixoul | Endler: kdeglobals |
| 22:08.21 | *** join/#kde EL_Mariachi (n=EL_Maria@86.56.31.6) |
| 22:08.44 | Endler | OK. I'll check that out. Wonder why it isn't exposed in the KDE control center UI |
| 22:09.07 | logixoul | scast: it's kinda fun to learn, but if you're sure you don't wanna do that you can get your hands on some other stuff (like bug triage and documentation) so developers have more time to wrestle with bugs ;) |
| 22:09.34 | logixoul | Endler: because it's kerry-specific. |
| 22:09.35 | TheCan | logixoul, is there maybe also a way to "send" the minimize event to a application? |
| 22:10.17 | *** join/#kde thiago (n=thiago@kde/thiago) |
| 22:10.26 | logixoul | TheCan: yes, the 'apply now' option in the respective combobox |
| 22:10.41 | *** join/#kde letto (n=letto@86.104.168.111) |
| 22:10.48 | scast | logixoul: cool. i mean wow... i dont even know why I said "lets use kword instead of OOo", it's tables handling is such a piece of crap. no offense. |
| 22:10.49 | scast | ;x |
| 22:11.01 | TheCan | logixoul, umm...no i meant like with a command so it normally is forced to fullscreen but occasionally i can force a minimize |
| 22:11.26 | logixoul | TheCan: is it a qt app? |
| 22:11.31 | TheCan | logixoul, no |
| 22:11.41 | TheCan | i will try with the "mimize" shortcut maybe |
| 22:11.42 | logixoul | hmm |
| 22:11.49 | logixoul | shouldn't work |
| 22:12.30 | TheCan | look when im in this forced-fullscreen app and i press alt+f2 then the run dialog comes up and the taskbar is shown which allows me to rightclick on it and minimize the app |
| 22:12.46 | logixoul | and it works? |
| 22:12.51 | TheCan | but i wanted shortcuts to be directed also to this app - is it possible to capture all shortcuts except one? |
| 22:13.03 | TheCan | logixoul, yes works fine |
| 22:13.18 | TheCan | when minimizing by hand the force fullscreen does not work anymore until i maximize the app again |
| 22:13.35 | logixoul | aha |
| 22:13.49 | logixoul | what exactly is 'capture shortcuts'? |
| 22:14.00 | Endler | Hmm. I don't see a [kerrry] section at all. What is the syntax? |
| 22:14.24 | TheCan | erm look i am using the nxclient in this window which has a bug i reported to nomachine but appearently noone is going to fix :( |
| 22:14.57 | TheCan | with "capture" shortcuts i mean i mean the shortcuts are not interpreted by kde but by solely by the application in this window |
| 22:14.57 | logixoul | Endler: see 'search primary selection with kerry' under [Global Shortcuts]' |
| 22:15.07 | logixoul | s/]'// |
| 22:15.20 | logixoul | s/uts/uts]/ |
| 22:15.43 | TheCan | logixoul, if you're interested see here for this problem: http://www.nomachine.com/tr/view.php?id=TR10D01535 |
| 22:17.00 | TheCan | logixoul, i'm referring to "block global shortcuts" by the way |
| 22:17.09 | logixoul | oh |
| 22:17.25 | *** join/#kde edulix (n=edulix@87.218.22.206) |
| 22:17.51 | logixoul | you can't do that i think, sorry |
| 22:18.08 | logixoul | might wanna hack kwin. |
| 22:18.22 | TheCan | logixoul, now i have - thanks to you - this workaround that i run the nxclient in custom mode (my screen resolution) instead of fullscreen which prevents it from getting minimized when the cursor leaves my monitor |
| 22:18.34 | Endler | I'm looking through [Global Shortcuts] but have no entry for kerry. I think that's what the problem is. I need to add the line from scratch. What is the syntax? |
| 22:18.37 | TheCan | but it would be nice to have some "force" minimize for this app |
| 22:18.49 | logixoul | Endler: Search Primary Selection with Kerry=Alt+Ctrl+G |
| 22:19.08 | *** join/#kde Smooph (n=wangweil@p54A76DC2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:20.22 | logixoul | Endler: which version of kerry are you running? |
| 22:20.46 | logixoul | 0.1.1-6 for me |
| 22:20.47 | TheCan | logixoul, btw. unfortunately this "block global shortcuts" does not work as i want because it really restricts me from using my second screen...arr i hate such dirty hacks |
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| 22:23.24 | logixoul | TheCan: let's see... you force nxclient's window to your res. this pervents it from getting minimized when the cursor leaves your monitor (how does it?). "block global shortcuts" is buggy (why do you need it at all?). |
| 22:25.26 | Endler | 0.1.1 |
| 22:25.33 | *** join/#kde davascript (n=danny@208.199.76.228) |
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| 22:26.02 | Endler | This is stange. That works. The shortcuts I add are recognized, but so still is F12. |
| 22:26.20 | logixoul | restart kerry |
| 22:26.20 | davascript | anyone use vsftpd |
| 22:26.31 | Endler | I did |
| 22:26.38 | logixoul | restart kde |
| 22:26.46 | smileaf | davascript: I do |
| 22:27.04 | Endler | OK, back in a bit |
| 22:27.07 | davascript | i want to set it up in standalone mode but i always get this |
| 22:27.07 | logixoul | kk |
| 22:27.09 | davascript | * /etc/vsftpd/vsftpd.conf must not set background=YES |
| 22:27.22 | TheCan | logixoul, look i run also kde in my nxclient window. now the problem is nxclient has a fullscreen mode which is buggy (as described in the previosly posted url) - and this bug minimizes nxclient once the cursor leaves the desktop (which i need as i use a multihead configuration). Normal apps of course dont minimize themserlves when i leave the screen, and this is also the case when running nxclient as a normal window. now i force kwi |
| 22:27.22 | TheCan | n to use "fullscreen" which gets me rid of the border, the window decorations and so on. but what i'd like to do is use the shortcuts "inside" nxclient and not outside. so i.e. when i press alt+f2 i get the run dialog inside the nxclient's kde, not my outside kde |
| 22:27.54 | smileaf | davascript: #vsftpd <--- go there. |
| 22:28.04 | davascript | adn if i comment that out or chaneg to no it looks like it start but nestat adn nmap show that the port is not listening |
| 22:28.06 | davascript | im banned |
| 22:28.20 | logixoul | sorry, not our problem |
| 22:28.56 | pinotree | davascript: vsftpd is not a kde application, and as logixoul said, that fact that you are banned ther eis not our problem |
| 22:28.58 | TheCan | logixoul, yes that's right! I just find it cool that with kwin i have a way around instead of being banned to wait for months until nomachine fixes the problem in their client |
| 22:29.24 | davascript | oops i thought i was in the gentoo channel |
| 22:29.31 | logixoul | heh |
| 22:29.52 | davascript | eh time to go home gnight kde users |
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| 22:30.18 | logixoul | TheCan: groovy |
| 22:32.25 | logixoul | wow. wow. http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2004/10/konsole-vs-xterm-or-proof-that-kde-is.html |
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| 22:36.08 | MinceR | he forgot about urxvtd/urxvtc :> |
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| 22:36.26 | mactek | yeah but the user wasn't using that |
| 22:36.42 | logixoul | (see the last comment there btw) |
| 22:36.54 | MinceR | :> |
| 22:37.02 | mactek | yups |
| 22:37.08 | MinceR | ic |
| 22:38.23 | aseigo | MinceR: not really.. the same sorts of gains are found when urxvtd is used, but it was really a comment on architecture: it may bring more weight with it, but it can also make up for that weight |
| 22:38.30 | aseigo | MinceR: if anything, urxcvtd proves the point =) |
| 22:38.34 | aseigo | er, urxvtd |
| 22:38.37 | MinceR | :) |
| 22:38.40 | aseigo | god what an aweful string of letters |
| 22:38.47 | logixoul | :D |
| 22:38.54 | MinceR | indeed |
| 22:38.57 | MinceR | it's kind of fun :) |
| 22:40.37 | *** join/#kde CapitalT (n=capitalt@89.211.254.217) |
| 22:41.05 | CapitalT | Hi, does anybody knows how to change a folder icon? |
| 22:41.42 | pinotree | CapitalT: right click on it -> properties -> click on the folder icon button -> select your icon -> press ok -> press ok -> done |
| 22:42.05 | scast | uhm? |
| 22:42.06 | CapitalT | Thanks |
| 22:42.07 | pinotree | CapitalT: and CTCP requests to the channel are not really wanted |
| 22:42.08 | logixoul | CapitalT: fyi every icon theme has different (if any) colors to choose from |
| 22:42.13 | nixternal | yes |
| 22:42.17 | nixternal | i second the ctcp stuff |
| 22:42.34 | scast | agree. |
| 22:42.49 | hydrogen | i tripple it |
| 22:42.51 | pinotree | CapitalT: otherwise you will spam all the people in the channel |
| 22:42.59 | *** join/#kde MaximLevitsky__ (n=MaximLev@89.1.162.98.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 22:43.23 | *** mode/#kde [+o pinotree] by ChanServ |
| 22:43.43 | *** topic/#kde by pinotree -> KDE is 10 years old now | KDE 3.5.5 is out! See www.kde.org | KDE FAQ: http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdebase/faq/ | Please don't flood the channel, use a paste service: http://rafb.net/paste | Please state your distribution and KDE version when asking questions | Don't delete ~/.kde ! | CTCP requests to the channel are forbidden |
| 22:43.53 | *** mode/#kde [-o pinotree] by pinotree |
| 22:44.05 | logixoul | hmm, CTCP-PING is just a way to signify that the last message should be seen by everybody in the channel, no? |
| 22:45.17 | vesuv | logixoul: A CTCP-Ping is only shown to the person you're pinging |
| 22:46.09 | logixoul | vesuv: didn't CapitalT ping #kde (not a single user but the channel itself)? |
| 22:46.31 | Theory | a CTCP is just a normal message that starts with a magic character |
| 22:46.31 | pinotree | vesuv: yes, he did |
| 22:46.35 | CapitalT | Oh, sorry guys. I had problems with my connection. (and the channel was silent when I came) |
| 22:46.38 | Theory | so you can send it to a channel, or in pm |
| 22:47.22 | CapitalT | So I just wanted to check if I'm blocked or not |
| 22:47.31 | CapitalT | (it happened before) |
| 22:47.51 | PhilRod | generally we only block people who've done something wrong, although I did block half of canada once |
| 22:47.55 | PhilRod | (by accident,I should add) |
| 22:48.10 | pinotree | PhilRod: (me too) |
| 22:48.21 | logixoul | i see, so what's the problem with CCTP-PINGing? it looks like a reasonable method to distinguish discussion-starting messages from discussion-building messages |
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| 22:49.00 | pinotree | a CTCP request sent to the channel is sent to ALL the people on that channel |
| 22:49.15 | CapitalT | goodnight everyone (and sorry again) |
| 22:49.27 | vesuv | What is he sorry for? |
| 22:49.45 | logixoul | pinotree: yes, precisely. why are they in the channel if they don't wanna be notified about the beginning of a discussion? |
| 22:50.04 | *** join/#kde treat (n=fhe@tvalk.campus.luth.se) |
| 22:50.04 | logixoul | vesuv: presumably for sending a CTCP request |
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| 22:50.17 | logixoul | ...to #kde |
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| 22:50.33 | pinotree | logixoul: and if i start sending CTCP-YOUSUCK requests to the channel is fine? |
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| 22:51.42 | vesuv | pinotree: You won't be sending many, I guess ,) |
| 22:51.57 | SAS_Spidey01 | oh for the love of |
| 22:51.58 | logixoul | pinotree: no. but that's only because YOUSUCK is useless/uncivil while PING is constructive/polite. (all that imho) |
| 22:52.04 | pinotree | vesuv: i suppose you didn't see spammers in action here... |
| 22:52.11 | vesuv | Not so much |
| 22:52.16 | pinotree | lucky |
| 22:52.24 | vesuv | I'm knew .. |
| 22:52.30 | pinotree | np |
| 22:52.36 | vesuv | thx ;) |
| 22:52.42 | SAS_Spidey01 | I went to look up some thing abotu CTCP and it says it's also "Compound TCP", a MS algorithm part of WinVistas TCP stack |
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| 22:52.55 | logixoul | SAS_Spidey01: that's the alt meaning |
| 22:53.02 | logixoul | SAS_Spidey01: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Client-To-Client_Protocol |
| 22:53.12 | *** join/#kde Endler (n=len@c-24-118-6-25.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 22:53.38 | SAS_Spidey01 | Yes I know logixoul :) |
| 22:53.44 | logixoul | oh |
| 22:53.49 | logixoul | yes my bad |
| 22:54.01 | MaximLevitsky__ | I found interesting bug in kio |
| 22:54.37 | Endler | Well, Kerry shortcuts are change successfully now. I'm having a problem with the beagle daemon now, but that's a separate issue. Thanks, Logixoul. |
| 22:54.56 | MaximLevitsky__ | On surface it looks like kget crashes when pausing/deleting downloads |
| 22:55.14 | logixoul | np Endler. keep in mind you could've kfound the config file by yourself, try that nex time ;) |
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| 22:55.22 | logixoul | s/x/xt/ |
| 22:55.36 | MaximLevitsky__ | But it is a race condition in kio |
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| 22:56.03 | logixoul | MaximLevitsky__: happened to me |
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| 22:56.29 | MaximLevitsky__ | Kget creates a thread to each download |
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| 22:57.08 | Endler | Well, I didn't have any entry whatsoever to search on. |
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| 22:57.28 | MaximLevitsky__ | this thread creates a FileCopyJob which does the copying |
| 22:57.30 | logixoul | Endler: right, sorry. |
| 22:57.32 | vmlemon | Does anyone know if a KDE 3.6.x series will be released? |
| 22:57.58 | pinotree | vmlemon: no, it won't |
| 22:58.24 | vmlemon | pinotree: So, it's a straight leap to KDE 4.x? |
| 22:58.28 | pinotree | yep |
| 22:58.40 | MaximLevitsky__ | the FileCopyJob using zillions of helpers,.... :-) , somewhere creates a socket and starts reading from it |
| 22:59.08 | logixoul | vmlemon: there will be 3.5.6 iirc |
| 22:59.34 | MaximLevitsky__ | but reading occurs on behalf of main thread |
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| 23:00.23 | logixoul | MaximLevitsky__: i can see the problem here, but the right audience is #kde-devel |
| 23:00.32 | logixoul | s/here/in this/ |
| 23:01.35 | MaximLevitsky__ | but I am still user of kde , I just want to hunt that bug.... :-) , anyway thanks for info |
| 23:02.13 | logixoul | :) |
| 23:02.15 | vmlemon | logixoul: is the idea to contimue making 3.5.x releases until 4.x comes out? |
| 23:03.29 | logixoul | vmlemon: dunno, probably 3.5.5 will be last |
| 23:03.35 | logixoul | [speculating] |
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| 23:04.34 | vmlemon | OK |
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| 23:12.36 | MaximLevitsky__ | I think I found a bug in kio/kget. I already digged on it so I more or less know solution for it, but In think that the race condition I found maybe a little more deep that I think. |
| 23:12.51 | *** part/#kde _MasterMind_ (n=mastermi@BSN-77-58-223.dsl.siol.net) |
| 23:12.53 | MaximLevitsky__ | kget creates a thread for each download |
| 23:13.01 | *** part/#kde bloodi (n=bloodi@kojec.turox.org) |
| 23:13.40 | MaximLevitsky__ | this thread creates a new FileCopyJob |
| 23:14.03 | pinotree | MaximLevitsky__: #kde-devel would be more appropriate... |
| 23:14.20 | pinotree | or better, posting that in the right kget bug would be even better |
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| 23:14.35 | MaximLevitsky__ | sorry, I thought this is a #kde-devel :-) |
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| 23:19.30 | roger55 | does konqueror have a feature like the trashcan in opera for closed tabs or this FF plugin: https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/3082/ ? |
| 23:22.18 | vesuv | roger55: Not that I'm aware of. |
| 23:23.00 | logixoul | roger55: the History feature almost covers that |
| 23:23.19 | roger55 | logixoul, well I'm no history or even sidebar user |
| 23:23.29 | logixoul | k, too bad then |
| 23:23.33 | roger55 | logixoul, :) |
| 23:24.11 | logixoul | roger55: look it up at bugs.kde and vote |
| 23:24.15 | roger55 | logixoul, that trashcan feature is much more convenient |
| 23:24.20 | roger55 | logixoul, willdo, thanks |
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| 23:25.22 | logixoul | YEEHAW! kde-apps.org finally has the 'collapse block' feature. been waiting for that since day one. |
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| 23:26.31 | logixoul | roger55: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=34454 |
| 23:26.33 | logixoul | roger55: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84802 |
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| 23:29.45 | roger55 | logixoul, wow thanks. voted already :) |
| 23:29.58 | logixoul | np |
| 23:40.00 | *** join/#kde Ze_M (n=Ze_M@unaffiliated/zem/x-000001) |
| 23:40.10 | Ze_M | how do i get quicktime working in konq? |
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| 23:41.07 | logixoul | Ze_M: install vanilla kaffeine, libxine and w32codec |
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| 23:41.28 | Ze_M | logixoul: i use x86_64 |
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| 23:42.17 | logixoul | Ze_M: what does this pervent you of using? |
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| 23:42.38 | Ze_M | logixoul: you said to install w32coedc!! |
| 23:42.50 | Ze_M | this is a 64 bit system |
| 23:43.03 | logixoul | Ze_M: worth a try |
| 23:43.09 | Ze_M | hu?! |
| 23:43.28 | Ze_M | ill make as i didnt heard that... |
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| 23:44.25 | logixoul | all right then |
| 23:44.48 | Renze | Ze_M: if you want quicktime support on 64 bit, you' |
| 23:44.50 | Renze | whoops |
| 23:44.54 | Renze | you'd better start coding |
| 23:45.17 | Ze_M | as i thought.. |
| 23:45.34 | Renze | that's the problem with closed proprietary codecs |
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| 23:59.00 | Ze_M | logixoul: in 32 bit you installed what to see quichtime? |
| 23:59.01 | MinceR | quiche time? |
| 23:59.03 | Ze_M | quicktime |
| 23:59.04 | Renze | mmmmm... quiche... |
| 23:59.04 | *** join/#kde _psychollek (i=adam@c113-220.icpnet.pl) |
| 23:59.04 | logixoul | i never saw any quicktime video, but i'm told it works after installing vanilla kaffeine, libxine and w32codec |
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| 23:59.05 | Ze_M | vanilla has nothing to with codes, thats for cd burning |
| 23:59.05 | logixoul | s/never saw/'ve never seen/ |
| 23:59.05 | logixoul | not true, suse's libxine is crippled for example |
| 23:59.06 | Ze_M | i have installed win32-codecs, xine, openquicktime, xanim-codecs and in konq i still only see flash and the only available plugins |
| 23:59.06 | *** join/#kde Manu` (n=Manu@211.253.124.87) |
| 23:59.06 | Ze_M | in konqueror plugins configure windows* |
| 23:59.07 | Renze | you need a kpart, as supplied by kaffeine or kmplayer |
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